**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 13 02:59:56 2009 Oct 13 03:00:06 I use iTunes, and I have a lot of "smart" playlists Oct 13 03:00:10 Ah and if you sync you cant share your music collection Oct 13 03:00:12 "OS X: Now deleting your data for no reason" http://www.neowin.net/news/main/09/10/11/major-bug-in-snow-leopard-deletes-all-user-data Oct 13 03:00:15 everytime I have to install iTunes for someone, i die a ilttle inside Oct 13 03:00:16 AnOutsider don't do it. Oct 13 03:00:18 one for newest music added, one for music ive played a lot int he last 2 weeks etc Oct 13 03:00:33 thatdude: 'cause people are morons Oct 13 03:00:43 it's a lot easier to connect a device and sync the playlists, than going througha folder, and add/delete files Oct 13 03:00:46 thatdude: as far as aunt minnie knows, iTunes is where the music "lives" Oct 13 03:00:59 freakout-work: Ahhh I forget at times Oct 13 03:01:13 yes freakout 100% Oct 13 03:01:16 lol sounds you guys have a deep hatred for apple Oct 13 03:01:24 AnOutsider: o_O Oct 13 03:01:24 nope Oct 13 03:01:29 i dislike apple fanboys, but they can make a decent product from time to time Oct 13 03:01:33 Just brains ;) Oct 13 03:01:39 I'd take itunes over winamp or anything else Oct 13 03:01:41 I don't people - I dislike the fanboys Oct 13 03:01:45 if you know of soemthing better, please do suggwest Oct 13 03:01:56 Media Monkey Oct 13 03:01:57 Fanboys who knows barely nothing about technology. Oct 13 03:01:58 but suggesting that manually adding files to a disc is easier than a sync.. that's kinda silly Oct 13 03:02:04 Hell even WMP is better than iTunes Oct 13 03:02:09 no way Oct 13 03:02:12 except 12 Oct 13 03:02:13 WMP sucks hardcore Oct 13 03:02:15 AnOutsider: zune software ftw. Oct 13 03:02:15 12 sucks Oct 13 03:02:20 Songbird is a good alternative Oct 13 03:02:29 AnOutsider: What are you talking about dude? Oct 13 03:02:29 i think tis mozilla-based, and it syncs with whatever Oct 13 03:02:36 winamp FTW Oct 13 03:02:36 I use WMP to play music that's all Oct 13 03:02:39 no bloat. Oct 13 03:02:51 Media Monkey to sync and manage files Oct 13 03:02:58 well, I guess that's why many companies succeed in the world Oct 13 03:03:03 can't please everyone with one product Oct 13 03:03:17 Yup Oct 13 03:03:33 if anyone knows a good place to download videos for my zune.. like movies...message me Oct 13 03:03:34 although the iPhone is perfect and nobody can life without it Oct 13 03:03:40 AnOutsider: I ain't suggesting anything dude. Noobs just use iTunes while the big boys do there shit manually. Oct 13 03:03:47 uhm, paid, of course... (:P) Oct 13 03:03:51 live* Oct 13 03:03:51 huh Oct 13 03:03:54 AnOutsider: i have a mild hatred Oct 13 03:04:04 thatdude: you're being a bit childish now Oct 13 03:04:04 nice "save" decimation ROFL Oct 13 03:04:07 mainly 'cause their marketing shits me Oct 13 03:04:14 you said itunes sucked, I asked to suggest an alternative Oct 13 03:04:25 Eguy: if you know of one of these totally paid and legal sites, let me know. Oct 13 03:04:35 preferibly .wmv files Oct 13 03:04:35 It's called amazon.com ;) Oct 13 03:04:36 I don't think their software is horrible. a bit bloated sure, but songbird is a good, slimmer alternative Oct 13 03:04:46 as for manual managing, I don't know how that's easier Oct 13 03:04:47 AnOutsider: I knew this was coming. You landed where I wanted you to be, know you have an agenda and want to make yourself feel mature... spare me kid. Oct 13 03:05:01 oh god yes wmv and zune software :( FAIL I hate it I had to convert everything Oct 13 03:05:09 sure it shows you're a "techy", but I've long since gornw past proving I CAN do something, and just go with what's easiest Oct 13 03:05:13 Internet fight! Oct 13 03:05:21 oh wow Oct 13 03:05:37 Since it's hard tot ell tone on the itnernet, I'll jsut assume you're joking and drop it Oct 13 03:06:31 AnOutsider: nervous? Can't even type. I guess that's called stuttering Oct 13 03:06:54 seriously? how old are you man? Oct 13 03:07:05 You're starting a chat war because I disagreed about choice of media player? Oct 13 03:07:07 alright alright, you can fight in the watercooler if you want ;) Oct 13 03:07:45 Going back to the topic, I have yet to find an app like iTunes that handles meta tag as well as iTunes Oct 13 03:08:05 That I give iTunes credit Oct 13 03:08:09 iTunes must be doing something right if everyone is trying to copy them. Oct 13 03:08:21 iTunes does very little right Oct 13 03:08:22 I should see if Rhythmbox has smart playlists. That sounds cool. Oct 13 03:08:33 but the iPod ensured that it got onto 99% of PC's Oct 13 03:08:36 songbird is the only app ive seen that's directly mimicing itunes Oct 13 03:08:39 tlp: It does not. Oct 13 03:08:39 Isn't that the way with all Apple products tlp? Oct 13 03:08:40 thus, it's the default for many Oct 13 03:08:41 iTunes just made their devices HAVE to sync to it. Oct 13 03:08:51 Eguy: yeah, true. Oct 13 03:08:51 so if a user wants an ipod/iphone, they have to use it. Oct 13 03:09:04 thats how it became popular, it forced users into using it. Oct 13 03:09:06 you can sync an ipod to media monkey.... Oct 13 03:09:18 You can also sync to Winamp, but you need to install extra plugin Oct 13 03:09:19 nah, that's not the only reason. A lot of people like iTunes. Oct 13 03:09:25 Eguy: does an ipod come packaged with a CD to install iTunes or media monkey? Oct 13 03:09:31 tlp: *raises hand* Oct 13 03:09:40 anyway, I should take Eguy's advice and not get too off-topic. This really isn't the channel for this. Oct 13 03:09:42 Decimate: I dont think so Oct 13 03:09:46 I think it just tells you to go to the site Oct 13 03:09:50 No it comes with an overpriced pricetag ;) Oct 13 03:09:51 tlp: may the flying spaghetti monster forgive them :p Oct 13 03:09:52 and Macs come bundled with it soo Oct 13 03:09:57 and a gun to shoot yourself with :D Oct 13 03:10:00 AnOutsider: my ipod came with the itunes cd. Oct 13 03:10:10 speaking of, why can apple bundle safari and itunes, and not have an issue? Oct 13 03:10:20 but MS is being forced to remove IE from certain pcs? Oct 13 03:10:26 or "offer alternatives" Oct 13 03:10:28 AnOutsider: apple is perfect, microsoft is satan. Oct 13 03:10:30 its obvious. Oct 13 03:10:36 must be decimation Oct 13 03:10:51 Steve Jobs > mortal/God Oct 13 03:11:28 haha Oct 13 03:11:32 MS is making a comeback lately Oct 13 03:11:41 AnOutsider: MS has much bigger marketshare. In this case Apple's weakness is their strength, funnily enough Oct 13 03:11:46 AnOutsider: no kidding.. windows 7, zune hd. Oct 13 03:11:46 ok I am done with off topic chat...I'll be in #webos-watercooler Oct 13 03:11:54 Windows 7 = teh shizzz Oct 13 03:12:11 I wish only >somewhat intelligent people could use computers. Oct 13 03:13:48 i dont =p Oct 13 03:13:52 I dislike Windows. Now developers have to pay 300-500 for drivers to be so called digitally sign by MS for security purposes. BS! Oct 13 03:14:13 +tharris: I know what you mean Oct 13 03:14:28 I make money off that! Oct 13 03:14:45 Is there some sort of "linux bug" that is forcing me to honestly believe it's just so much better than anything else? Oct 13 03:15:04 zsoc: nope Oct 13 03:15:18 Linux and I are so happy together :) Oct 13 03:16:21 Where does Mojo.log.info() get output to? Oct 13 03:16:59 assuming the log level is high enough /var/log/messages Oct 13 03:17:30 soo, the weather Oct 13 03:17:33 yeah, it's not high enough because its not outputting there Oct 13 03:17:47 AnOutsider left the watercooler pretty quick :p Oct 13 03:18:46 trillian bleeps too much when you've got multiple IRC windows open Oct 13 03:18:59 is there a way to bind to that buffer and just monitor mojo logs? Oct 13 03:19:32 trillian has many beeps Oct 13 03:19:37 4.1 is awesome :D Oct 13 03:19:56 Extremely happy 4.1 is out Oct 13 03:20:16 Missed the auto response away message. I mean, what's the point of an away message, if it's not sent to whomever IMs you Oct 13 03:20:25 well it is early access beta :P Oct 13 03:20:48 yeah, but it was in 4.0, then they removed it because they said it bugged out for MSN users Oct 13 03:20:54 rwhitby: ping Oct 13 03:21:01 it is still laggy for me in win 7 Oct 13 03:21:02 it's been in every trillian (and IM client AFAIK) Oct 13 03:21:16 hmm, ive got win 7 at the office, no lag there Oct 13 03:21:22 early astra builds were horrid tho Oct 13 03:21:27 indeed Oct 13 03:21:48 3.0 alpha builds were the worst of all time Oct 13 03:21:57 it crashed ever 5 seconds Oct 13 03:22:01 every* Oct 13 03:23:42 the ram usage was the worst issue Oct 13 03:23:57 I'm still amazed it's taken them this many years to get Astra out the door Oct 13 03:24:08 I wonder if they secretly fucked off for a year or two Oct 13 03:24:18 I've been using since .97 Oct 13 03:24:32 That verbiage is moderately offensive. Oct 13 03:24:39 lol Oct 13 03:24:49 hahaha Oct 13 03:24:55 "I've been using" Oct 13 03:25:14 I just noticed what I wrote Oct 13 03:25:24 ouch Oct 13 03:25:29 Personally, when someone using a swear word, I try to take the prepositional phrase it's contained in, and think about it literally. It generally ends up very amusing. Oct 13 03:25:41 wtf?? Oct 13 03:25:45 ;) Oct 13 03:25:57 lol Oct 13 03:26:23 But does it pass the " the log" test? Oct 13 03:26:53 Today's featured article : Super Smash Bros. Brawl REALLY?? Really wikipedia? srsly? Oct 13 03:27:18 random and naturally off-topic, but any of you guys ever use a kaleidescape system? Oct 13 03:27:37 I know it uses a proprietary OS built on linux, but just wondering if anyone's ever poked around the innards Oct 13 03:27:41 Tomorrow: NES barbie vacation adventure. Oct 13 03:27:44 * freakout-work imagines rwhitby spinning in his grave.... if he was dead Oct 13 03:27:55 * Eguy nods and leaves Oct 13 03:28:40 I said it before, and I'll say it again: An elephant's faithful, 100% Oct 13 03:28:43 wait, that's not it. Oct 13 03:29:03 I mean, IRC is for idle chatter, not Idle Chatters :> Oct 13 03:29:04 "A penny saved is worth two in the bush" Oct 13 03:29:31 zsoc: lol Oct 13 03:29:34 I always wondered what was in that bush Oct 13 03:30:05 sea crabs? Oct 13 03:30:43 blah, woman's nagging. Night guys Oct 13 03:30:44 I had a bum ask me once, "What's the best nation?" Oct 13 03:30:49 AnOutsider, peace Oct 13 03:30:51 * AnOutsider images rod's face when he reads the logs ;) Oct 13 03:32:19 So has anyone checked to see if the refresh rate of the pre screen is high enough that it can be used to induce epileptic fits? Oct 13 03:32:36 Or the red eye strobe... Oct 13 03:33:15 trying something? Oct 13 03:33:30 Just curious. Oct 13 03:33:44 Alternatives to mace/blackjacks/etc are always appreciated. Oct 13 03:37:01 heisenman, alternatively, some of us may be epileptic. Oct 13 03:37:16 I thought of that. Oct 13 03:37:44 bluetooth pistol ftw Oct 13 03:37:46 Knowing such functionality was possible could make epileptics better informed as to the potential dangers of their devices. Oct 13 03:38:22 press play to begin firing :P Oct 13 03:39:49 "wait, please look at this real fast before mugging me!" Oct 13 03:44:07 hi all Oct 13 03:44:07 ok, i'm turning in, later Oct 13 03:48:25 * oil has new wallpaper for dual-monitor work computer Oct 13 03:48:26 http://www.flickr.com/photos/adamcrowe/4002050596/sizes/o/ Oct 13 03:49:04 oil.. do you think i should resize my /var? Oct 13 03:49:21 lol Oct 13 03:50:23 Hmm Oct 13 03:50:53 hi i need help with removing virtual keyboard, preware runs into an error Oct 13 03:51:21 shimbo_: what error ...? Oct 13 03:51:51 well first, i installed keyboard and the keyboard never showed up when i would tap twice. the error is an ipkd? error Oct 13 03:51:56 let me check real quick to make sure Oct 13 03:52:02 it will way error 4. Oct 13 03:52:18 I want to know what is in the IPKG log ... after you get error 4, press ipkg log Oct 13 03:53:37 confirm, nothing interesting; unlock: nothing interesting; prerm: nothing interesting Oct 13 03:53:39 then it says failed Oct 13 03:53:45 errorgenericmethodexception Oct 13 03:53:58 failure during prerm operation Oct 13 03:54:12 ok Oct 13 03:54:15 whate else in tehre Oct 13 03:54:22 under failed Oct 13 03:54:31 a very long list in green Oct 13 03:54:35 of what happened Oct 13 03:54:42 trying to install certain patches Oct 13 03:54:46 got access to a command line? Oct 13 03:54:48 then it says 1 out of 1 hunk ignored Oct 13 03:54:56 how do i get access Oct 13 03:55:11 Install Terminal from preware. Oct 13 03:55:38 both terminal and terminal service plugin? Oct 13 03:55:41 yes Oct 13 03:56:20 ok luna is restarting Oct 13 03:56:23 OK Oct 13 03:57:27 ok my palm is on Oct 13 03:57:39 open the terminal app Oct 13 03:57:47 k Oct 13 03:58:14 i see root@castle:/var/home/root# Oct 13 03:58:40 ok Oct 13 03:58:46 type: mount -o remount,rw / Oct 13 03:59:08 1 out of 1 hunk ignored means that something else has touched the file being patched in a conflicting way Oct 13 03:59:31 rwhitby: I am going to run the prerm from terminal Oct 13 03:59:59 to see if goes that way. The "whole bunch of green stuff" sounds like a bunch of "ignores" Oct 13 04:00:39 which usually means the file isn't patched anymore.. or isn't patched. Oct 13 04:00:45 that command didnt do anything Oct 13 04:00:51 shimbo_: yes it did Oct 13 04:01:05 oh..k Oct 13 04:02:12 now: sh /var/usr/lib/ipkg/info/org.webosinternals.patches.add-onscreen-keyboard.prerm Oct 13 04:04:14 unreversed patch detected Oct 13 04:04:24 assume -R [n]? Oct 13 04:04:34 ya Oct 13 04:04:40 no Oct 13 04:04:46 ignore -r [n] Oct 13 04:04:52 that's what i meant Oct 13 04:04:55 just press enter Oct 13 04:04:57 k Oct 13 04:05:05 proabably going to be a bunch of those Oct 13 04:05:08 apply anyway? Oct 13 04:05:11 enter Oct 13 04:05:12 ? Oct 13 04:05:19 it has [n] right? Oct 13 04:05:22 ya Oct 13 04:05:25 yep Oct 13 04:05:25 enter Oct 13 04:05:34 [n] is what is default.. which is No. Oct 13 04:05:49 14 out of 14 hunks ignored Oct 13 04:05:55 it's done? Oct 13 04:05:59 then more type, and asks to ignroe again Oct 13 04:06:03 should i keep pressing enter Oct 13 04:06:04 yep Oct 13 04:06:07 gonan be a bunch Oct 13 04:06:10 just keep going Oct 13 04:06:44 rwhitby: you still there? Oct 13 04:07:47 ok done Oct 13 04:07:56 it said skipping patch Oct 13 04:08:01 and then 1 out of 1 hunk ignored at the end Oct 13 04:08:43 that's fine Oct 13 04:08:50 does this mean the patch is gone? Oct 13 04:08:54 no Oct 13 04:09:03 dbsooner where can i get access to the meta doctor... i am more the willing to attempt the resizing of the partition Oct 13 04:09:25 ipkg -o /var remove org.webosinternals.patches.add-onscreen-keyboard Oct 13 04:09:41 Jack87: its on precentral.. rwhitby's thread.. hang on Oct 13 04:10:47 Jack87: http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/207472-webos-internals-meta-doctor.html Oct 13 04:10:48 dBsooner, copy that Oct 13 04:11:04 shimbo_: you do that ipkg -o /var remove org.... line? Oct 13 04:11:29 ya Oct 13 04:11:34 Jack87: note that you need to build the meta-doctor yourself on a Linux box - we can't redistribute built images Oct 13 04:11:34 k now its gone Oct 13 04:11:47 shimbo_: try to install VKB again in Preware. Oct 13 04:11:59 ok Oct 13 04:12:03 thanks Oct 13 04:12:09 rwhitby: How do I save all my messages and stuff? Oct 13 04:12:18 right rwhitby i think i talked to you about that already Oct 13 04:12:23 dBsooner: you can't Oct 13 04:12:27 doh! Oct 13 04:12:43 they're in the cloud, right? ;-) Oct 13 04:12:45 rwhitby, do you want to figure out wht fair dinkum app is not working for me before i do this? Oct 13 04:12:57 Jack87: yeah, do you have novaterm working? Oct 13 04:12:59 i think he is speaking of text messages Oct 13 04:13:00 what cloud? Oct 13 04:13:04 I have no clouds. Oct 13 04:13:27 Jack87: let me know when you have a linux command line via novaterm or ssh on the Pre Oct 13 04:13:58 i just uninstalled preware/package mngr/ and fair dinkum... going to reinstall it all one last time and if no luck will do.. yes i do have ssh linux access Oct 13 04:14:15 excellent. I have 45 mins now Oct 13 04:16:02 shouldnt take more then 2min to install preware/pkg mngr/fair dinkum Oct 13 04:16:10 oil: that's an awesome wallpaper Oct 13 04:16:39 rwhitby: but don't you bypass activation with meta-nurse? Oct 13 04:16:43 oil: But it's inaccurate. Did you know that technically, the solar system is so vast it's actually impossible to draw it to scale in a single, naked-eye viewable picture? Oct 13 04:16:44 so the cloud is bypasse.d Oct 13 04:17:09 dBsooner: nope, you can log into a palm profile after meta-doctor Oct 13 04:17:14 ahh Oct 13 04:17:23 so the cloud stores texts? Oct 13 04:18:02 so the question i have rwhitby is what happens if you install over 64mb of apps on your var partition and then dr your pre and try to restore.. will it install all the apps or stop at 64mb.. will it explode and catch on fire? Oct 13 04:18:20 Jack87: dunno - testing is for users. Oct 13 04:18:31 so i went to preware and it stlil had the option to "remove"...i clicked it Oct 13 04:18:33 and i got the same error Oct 13 04:18:34 well i will let you know if i get this to work :) Oct 13 04:18:45 freakout-work: its an infographic, its not supposed to be to scale, lol Oct 13 04:18:53 you've found more than 64MB worth of useful app catalog stuff? Oct 13 04:19:23 * oil <<3's that question Oct 13 04:19:25 lol Oct 13 04:19:32 nope Oct 13 04:19:34 not at all Oct 13 04:19:40 won't be a problem then :-) Oct 13 04:19:41 but i just want to know what will happen Oct 13 04:19:53 dbsooner: you still there? Oct 13 04:20:00 shimbo_: yep Oct 13 04:20:09 so virtual keyboard is still there Oct 13 04:20:12 it sitll had the option to remove? Oct 13 04:20:13 same error when i try to remove it Oct 13 04:20:24 yeah Oct 13 04:20:24 oil: heh. I just like repeating that fact 'cause I think it's awesome Oct 13 04:20:42 and you are sure you typed: ipkg -o /var remove org.webosinternals.patches.add-onscreen-keyboard Oct 13 04:20:52 ill type it again Oct 13 04:21:02 or do i need to ty[e everything? Oct 13 04:21:13 yes Oct 13 04:21:17 type it exactly as you see it Oct 13 04:21:17 damn ok Oct 13 04:21:21 i mean Oct 13 04:21:25 no, just this line Oct 13 04:21:27 do i type all the commands you told me Oct 13 04:21:28 ok cool Oct 13 04:21:43 still no luck got the error Oct 13 04:21:53 no lag before it tells me there is no room Oct 13 04:22:05 but it continues to say there is no room Oct 13 04:22:16 shimbo_: it should say it removed it Oct 13 04:22:16 i am logged in as root ready to toruble shoot when you are Oct 13 04:23:38 Jack87: ps -ef Oct 13 04:23:43 Jack87: look for LunaSysMgr Oct 13 04:23:47 find the process id Oct 13 04:24:29 nice, it's removed, thanks again Oct 13 04:24:38 Jack87: (it's the number in the second column) Oct 13 04:24:50 np shimbo_ Oct 13 04:24:54 Jack87: alternatively "ps -ef | grep LunaSysMgr" will make it easier to find Oct 13 04:25:12 it will be somewhere around 1224 or so Oct 13 04:25:23 23180 Oct 13 04:25:51 23180 1 22 22:16 ? 00:01:40 /usr/bin/LunaSysMgr Oct 13 04:26:33 ok Oct 13 04:26:59 "strace -p 23180 -s 1024 2>&1 | grep /var Oct 13 04:27:10 then try to install something in app catalog Oct 13 04:27:32 no out put.. just let it run and try to isntall Oct 13 04:28:00 same error Oct 13 04:28:08 Is someone working a fix for the crappy bluetooth Oct 13 04:28:21 got a bunch of output now though Oct 13 04:28:59 Jack87: one moment while I connect my Pre Oct 13 04:29:48 http://pastebin.com/m5e44ae3 Oct 13 04:31:00 Jack87: and that's the list of apps you have installed? Oct 13 04:31:40 thats the output it gave when i attempted to download from catalog Oct 13 04:32:44 and yes they are the apps i currently have installed Oct 13 04:32:54 lol, palm just emailed me. New Pre owners: Helpful tips to get you started. I've had my Pre for over a month. Oct 13 04:33:28 are they helpful? Oct 13 04:33:37 Jack87: and it's giving a memory error? Oct 13 04:33:42 yes Oct 13 04:33:57 nothing i hadn't already figured out. Oct 13 04:34:30 rwhitby, i trully believe the app is installed correctly and i do have plenty of space on the partition over 90mb Oct 13 04:34:54 Jack87: I believe you, don't worry. Oct 13 04:34:58 rwhitby: why is "preware" listed in that pastebin? Oct 13 04:35:08 dBsooner: cause it's installed Oct 13 04:35:13 line 4 Oct 13 04:35:15 no, not installed paps Oct 13 04:35:17 appsA* Oct 13 04:35:18 i just hit downlaod button again and it scrolled through that list Oct 13 04:35:25 Jack87: pastebin the output of 'df' please Oct 13 04:35:43 rwhitby: line 4: .... view]... \nDocument: 0x495ea600\n~Document (0x495ea600, about:blank)\nDocument: 0x495ea600\npage load file:///var/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.preware/index.html 2126 ms\n~Document (0x"..., 4096) = 4096 Oct 13 04:35:50 output is off the screen. ctrl+c will stop this command? Oct 13 04:35:56 Jack87: yes Oct 13 04:36:13 df? Oct 13 04:36:17 dBsooner: that's opening Preware main page Oct 13 04:36:19 Jack87: yes Oct 13 04:36:46 rwhitby: i know.. but why? Why is lunasysmgr opening Preware when he's trying to install an app from app cat? Oct 13 04:37:07 http://pastebin.com/m66856439 Oct 13 04:37:14 oh wait.. he probably has it open in the background Oct 13 04:37:16 nevermind Oct 13 04:37:20 thats the device waking up Oct 13 04:37:35 no luna manager open in background dBsooner i only have catalog open Oct 13 04:38:08 dBsooner: that's preware screen being refreshed on wake-up Oct 13 04:38:20 oh.. but why? he said it wasn't open. :D Oct 13 04:38:39 i'll stay out of the way now and just watch Oct 13 04:39:04 preware is not running either Oct 13 04:39:36 Jack87: ok, I'm going to fill my /var to the same as yours Oct 13 04:40:01 very exciting Oct 13 04:40:21 gonna arrange the icons the same, too? Oct 13 04:40:34 maybe use quick install to make it quicker? lol you can just look at my list of apps there and check markem Oct 13 04:40:35 however, it means you'll have to install dotgame :) Oct 13 04:40:39 Jack87: yep, I get the same error at 66% full /var Oct 13 04:40:42 dot game rocks Oct 13 04:40:54 ok Oct 13 04:41:04 I'm using dd to create a dummy file Oct 13 04:41:07 * oil released an update to palm to fix a bug Oct 13 04:41:07 so it makes the 64mb limit Oct 13 04:41:18 so I can ramp it back to test the free space limit Oct 13 04:41:47 so the 64mb limit goes up further but the app doesnt take it to full capacity of the var partition Oct 13 04:42:14 rwhitby: this line stood out to me: statfs("/var/usr/palm/applications", {f_type="EXT2_SUPER_MAGIC", f_bsize=4096, f_blocks=63480, f_bfree=24021, f_bavail=24021, f_files=65536, f_ffree=52272, f_fsid={524306247, 314577895}, f_namelen=255, f_frsize=4096}) = 0 Oct 13 04:42:57 dBsooner: yep. so they are checking both used space and free space Oct 13 04:43:09 yep Oct 13 04:43:24 64% is too much Oct 13 04:43:24 so we could wrap around statfs and stat64 Oct 13 04:43:41 so anything bellow 64% works Oct 13 04:43:41 62% is too much Oct 13 04:44:10 work up from 50%? Oct 13 04:44:10 61% is too much Oct 13 04:44:20 59% is fine Oct 13 04:44:24 i guess you are close enough to 50 Oct 13 04:44:39 I bet its 150 megs Oct 13 04:44:44 dang, seeems like my ear speaker stopped working along with my proximty sensor.. any ideas, reboot, battery out still doesn't work Oct 13 04:45:10 so nothing over 150mb Oct 13 04:45:16 thinking about doctoring the phone =/ Oct 13 04:45:23 ya its 150 dBsooner i just did that math Oct 13 04:45:27 haha i think i did it right Oct 13 04:45:29 Figures Oct 13 04:45:46 although the var partion is larger then that Oct 13 04:45:56 i wonder after meta doctor going over 2 gig Oct 13 04:46:08 will it still be 150mb? Oct 13 04:46:10 I bet it's a hard code Oct 13 04:46:12 of 150mb Oct 13 04:46:16 not a % Oct 13 04:46:18 or 59% of 2 gigs Oct 13 04:46:39 if thats the case you have no reason to use meta doctor now dBsooner Oct 13 04:46:53 Jack87: sure there is Oct 13 04:46:57 hehe Oct 13 04:47:00 Jack87: we just place a wrapper around statfs Oct 13 04:47:08 at least this now means that fairdinkum is guaranteed safe :-) Oct 13 04:47:09 and stat64 Oct 13 04:47:29 and we can combine fairdinkum with mvapps to get unlimited space Oct 13 04:47:37 ya.. but it doesnt solve the app limit.. just pushes it further Oct 13 04:47:49 what is mvapps? Oct 13 04:47:50 i don't like mvapps Oct 13 04:47:55 as it uses FAT for storage Oct 13 04:48:46 rwhitby: why can't you just wrap around statfs? Oct 13 04:49:13 dBsooner: how exactly do you intend to wrap a C library function? Oct 13 04:49:21 carefully Oct 13 04:49:29 sorry, not going there. Oct 13 04:49:30 VERY carefully Oct 13 04:49:34 LOL Oct 13 04:49:35 dang Oct 13 04:49:39 good call on mimicing my amount of installed apps Oct 13 04:50:02 so who is going to doctor their phone to a 2GB /var Oct 13 04:50:05 i will delete bunch of home brew and install some catalog apps then try and restore the pre see if it will restore the apps Oct 13 04:50:09 to test if its 60% or 150MB? Oct 13 04:50:35 if you make the dr ill test it (i dunno if rod will get mad about you sending a dr) Oct 13 04:50:46 not gonna do it Oct 13 04:50:52 download a vbox linux Oct 13 04:51:05 ive got ubuntu on my netbook Oct 13 04:51:32 i just want to work on seeing what happens when downloading backed up apps first Oct 13 04:51:37 might take a little bit of time Oct 13 04:52:11 no sense in 2GB meta-doctoring. xD Oct 13 04:52:28 well remember i am replacing my pre soon. Oct 13 04:52:41 unless I make another ext3 partition to mvapps to Oct 13 04:53:12 whats the matter with fat partition? Oct 13 04:53:40 howdy all Oct 13 04:54:28 I just don't like a non-journalling filesystem Oct 13 04:54:40 i just ran my updates program, and it says im up to date, but im still running 1.2.0 Oct 13 04:54:46 :( Oct 13 04:54:51 tlz that sucks Oct 13 04:54:53 lol Oct 13 04:55:05 its those other people who keep getting offered 1.2.1 Oct 13 04:55:09 they're gettin yo copy Oct 13 04:55:12 lol Oct 13 04:55:14 lol Oct 13 04:55:24 why isn't it finding 1.2.1 Oct 13 04:55:40 who knows Oct 13 04:55:43 not me Oct 13 04:55:51 i am at 57% ran out of home brew to delete Oct 13 04:57:34 i dont have 45 mb of home brew on here i dunno what is taking up so much space Oct 13 04:58:10 dotgame Oct 13 04:58:15 xD Oct 13 04:58:20 isnt that yours oil Oct 13 04:58:24 no Oct 13 04:58:31 who made it Oct 13 04:58:40 yes, i did Oct 13 04:58:40 oil, any idea on how i can get 1.2.1 Oct 13 04:58:47 :) Oct 13 04:58:55 see i knew that.. best game ever Oct 13 04:58:59 tlz: none Oct 13 04:59:05 tlz: webosdoc to 1.2.1 Oct 13 04:59:49 yeah, there is that Oct 13 05:00:05 damn Oct 13 05:00:16 now i gotta reinstall all my stuff lol Oct 13 05:00:24 and take off all my pictures and junk Oct 13 05:02:40 pdf viewer is under var partition. Oct 13 05:02:40 is there a way to attach to a process (i.e. Luna) to see what function is being called for a specific part of an app/helper? Oct 13 05:02:41 so odd Oct 13 05:02:56 i thought it would be under official apps Oct 13 05:03:05 I want to know which helper and function is called when you press the talk button in the phone app. Oct 13 05:03:35 I want to change that "recently called" from just "name" to "name and #(mobile,home,work,etc)" Oct 13 05:03:48 i only have like 10mb of home brew Oct 13 05:03:55 what is taking up all the space in my var partition Oct 13 05:04:07 Jack87: cd /var du Oct 13 05:04:13 err.... du -h Oct 13 05:04:19 for human readable Oct 13 05:05:26 cd /var du Oct 13 05:05:34 root@castle:/# 109652 57% /opt Oct 13 05:05:41 cd /var Oct 13 05:05:43 then du -h Oct 13 05:05:59 0 Oct 13 05:06:39 shrug Oct 13 05:06:39 root@castle:/var# du -h Oct 13 05:06:39 0 Oct 13 05:06:39 ya.. super werid Oct 13 05:06:42 yea, it is Oct 13 05:06:43 catalog apps cant surpase 64mb Oct 13 05:06:47 oh wait Oct 13 05:06:52 so i should have like 75mb not 109 Oct 13 05:07:01 i forgot you ave mr whitbys stuff installed Oct 13 05:07:10 do /usr/bin/du -h Oct 13 05:07:49 list ended with 129.0m Oct 13 05:08:02 so go through there looking for the largest subdirs Oct 13 05:08:03 ;) Oct 13 05:08:31 sadly... i dont think putty screen shows entire list Oct 13 05:08:38 du -h | more Oct 13 05:09:01 du -h | more Oct 13 05:09:01 0 Oct 13 05:09:32 8.9M ./luna/data/dbdata Oct 13 05:09:55 largest is Oct 13 05:09:55 31.4M ./opt Oct 13 05:10:05 bthats not on var is it? Oct 13 05:10:12 thats optware Oct 13 05:10:24 ya isnt optware installed on root? Oct 13 05:10:59 anyway i can see more of the list? Oct 13 05:11:36 yes opt is in /var Oct 13 05:11:51 and is bound to /var Oct 13 05:12:04 in other words.. /var/opt and /opt are the same Oct 13 05:12:11 ok Oct 13 05:12:13 and it takes room from /var Oct 13 05:12:16 that makes more sense then Oct 13 05:12:19 just press space to get more Oct 13 05:13:28 but from the looks of your pastebin earlier, the statfs is only checking /var/usr/palm/applications Oct 13 05:13:33 ok got it. Oct 13 05:13:43 it doesn't care how much /var has taken up.. just /var/usr/palm/applications Oct 13 05:13:49 luna is 18.8mb Oct 13 05:13:56 optware is 34 Oct 13 05:14:09 so that makes sense now on why there is so much in var partition Oct 13 05:14:33 hum... Oct 13 05:14:47 didnt we conclude at 60%/150mb it freaks out Oct 13 05:16:21 i suppose Oct 13 05:16:30 rwhitby: Oct 13 05:16:58 oh well i just want to see if it will install more then 64mb of catalog anyway Oct 13 05:17:45 dBsooner: statfs is on a filesystem, not a directory: http://linux.die.net/man/2/statfs Oct 13 05:18:11 oh Oct 13 05:18:15 I've just re-doctored to 2GB Oct 13 05:18:16 been a while Oct 13 05:18:22 what fer? Oct 13 05:18:30 now that i am bellow 60% i can download Oct 13 05:18:48 see if it installs after 150mg Oct 13 05:19:08 rwhitby: why did you doctor back to 2gb? Oct 13 05:19:17 dBsooner: regarding moving apps to a non-journalling filesystem - they are apps, you can just download them again if the fs barfs Oct 13 05:19:21 i wish i didn't have to dr my pre to get 1.2.1 Oct 13 05:19:25 wish it would just find it Oct 13 05:19:45 dBsooner: I doctored to 2GB to determine if the free space limit is 60% or a certain number of free or used blocks Oct 13 05:20:07 free space? Oct 13 05:20:17 tmzt long story.. scroll up Oct 13 05:20:17 ;) Oct 13 05:20:40 lots of excitment tmzt Oct 13 05:20:47 hah, on otherstuff today Oct 13 05:23:40 dBsooner: some how your phone thing interests me more and I just stopped scrolling :-) Oct 13 05:23:56 dBsooner: http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/209069-alternative-4x4-launcher-larger-icons-text.html - some guy just PM'd me about it, but I have other things on my plate Oct 13 05:24:05 dBsooner: strace -p or ptrace if we can use it Oct 13 05:24:28 -ff to follow forks Oct 13 05:25:01 rwhitby, is it a hard set for 150mb? or 60% limit Oct 13 05:25:02 tmzt: I've been doing all my research with strace already Oct 13 05:25:11 tmzt: i'll look into that tomorrow. I really want to know WHICH number I am calling when I hit "talk-talk" Oct 13 05:25:14 Jack87: dunno yet, still restoring from backup Oct 13 05:25:39 oh gotcha. i am waiting in anticipation Oct 13 05:26:15 mvapps loop based? Oct 13 05:27:07 rwhitby: im on it Oct 13 05:27:18 stafs wrapper, preload :-) Oct 13 05:27:27 BTW.. If somone can figure out how to slow down the scrolling of the center wheel on my mouse, I would ecsatic. Oct 13 05:27:30 tmzt: I'm not going there. too risky. Oct 13 05:28:42 f_bsize=4096, f_blocks=63480, f_bfree=24021, f_bavail=24021, Oct 13 05:29:57 rwhitby: yeah, you didn't ask though Oct 13 05:30:08 somebody earlier Oct 13 05:30:42 rwhitby: what kind of risk? Oct 13 05:30:48 dBsooner, what os are you running Oct 13 05:30:52 ubuntu Oct 13 05:30:55 and what mouse to you have Oct 13 05:30:58 oh.. hum Oct 13 05:31:07 im no expert at ubuntu Oct 13 05:31:10 could you make it only fake the first one? Oct 13 05:31:13 microsoft wireless notebook 4000 Oct 13 05:31:15 * oil has mx revolution and loves it Oct 13 05:31:44 im using vx revolution its amazing Oct 13 05:31:49 I still don't understand why doctor can't deal with lvm changes Oct 13 05:31:50 Jack87: restore is taking forever - nothing filled in the bar yet Oct 13 05:32:02 tmzt: doctor can, and meta-doctor does Oct 13 05:32:12 just keep me posted when done rwhitby Oct 13 05:33:04 ok Oct 13 05:33:06 Jack87: btw.. I'm the patch guy now. not emoney/gaudet. xD Oct 13 05:33:11 but upgrades? Oct 13 05:33:28 dBsooner: have you got a new avatar yet? Oct 13 05:33:35 good to know dBsooner Oct 13 05:33:38 rwhitby: negative. Oct 13 05:33:55 my post is gone now dBsooner Oct 13 05:34:07 grrr.. I wish Ronnie would give me access to move these threads. Oct 13 05:34:25 i jsut saw your tittle Oct 13 05:34:38 I have a tittle huh? Oct 13 05:34:57 dBsooner Oct 13 05:34:57 Patch Meister Oct 13 05:35:14 news to you eh Oct 13 05:35:40 by the way you have a double post from 501 error Oct 13 05:36:02 i know Oct 13 05:36:17 delete the first one because onlinespending replied to the second to keep his link true :) Oct 13 05:36:18 As soon as ronnie moves the thread to the patches sub-forum I can delete my 2nd psot Oct 13 05:36:59 the quote link... Oct 13 05:38:14 yep, deleted the first one Oct 13 05:38:47 :) i pointed out you are the patch guy Oct 13 05:38:51 i will spread the word Oct 13 05:39:30 man finding apps i want to isntall is harder then i thought Oct 13 05:39:34 they are all shit Oct 13 05:39:40 well i shouldnt say that Oct 13 05:39:46 they are not use to me Oct 13 05:40:00 is the currently-playing track from the music app sent out on dbus somewhere Oct 13 05:40:02 no offence to you devs out there bad wording Oct 13 05:43:41 classic should not be listed as free Oct 13 05:43:46 or atleast have trial in the tittle Oct 13 05:45:22 Jack87: still downloading apps Oct 13 05:45:38 how many apps do you have Oct 13 05:46:03 29 so far restored from backup Oct 13 05:46:07 my restore for apps usualy takes 5min tops Oct 13 05:46:13 61MB Oct 13 05:46:35 intresting... i wonder why its taking so long... maybe palm servers are being funky Oct 13 05:46:41 yes, but I'm on the other side of the world, and if the electrons were using the Palm GPS they go via lattitude 396 degrees. Oct 13 05:48:28 never the less your wifi connection i would imagine would be faster then on evdo Oct 13 05:48:29 37 apps, 65140 blocks used for /var/usr/palm/applications Oct 13 05:48:52 Jack87: it's all about latency I expect Oct 13 05:49:25 how can i check the amount of space that catalog apps are taking up Oct 13 05:49:31 round-trip min/avg/max = 238.983/379.992/818.757 ms Oct 13 05:50:08 excluding optware and all that fun stuff Oct 13 05:50:18 so i can see if the restore will restore over 64mb Oct 13 05:50:24 without installing your app Oct 13 05:54:58 39 apps Oct 13 05:55:34 dBsooner, did you figure out how to save all the texts? Oct 13 05:55:43 all the threads and such Oct 13 05:56:16 doh! I used the wrong doctor image. Oct 13 05:56:50 didn't rebuild it after yesterday when I made it 256MB Oct 13 05:57:21 oh man Oct 13 05:57:25 hahaha Oct 13 05:57:55 That sucks rwhitby Oct 13 05:58:18 * rwhitby re-runs meta-doctor ... Oct 13 05:58:33 oil, does the mx revolution have anythign mroe then the vx? Oct 13 05:59:10 oil, i think it has the scroll wheel on the side but vx has the slider left of the left click... does the scroll wheel press in as a button? Oct 13 06:00:10 oil, well and its larger.. but i like mine small :) Oct 13 06:01:36 let's do a bellmo image this time - less sprint apps to install Oct 13 06:01:55 the sprint apps are part of the dr Oct 13 06:02:01 so it shouldnt make a differnce there Oct 13 06:02:03 its like a baby scroller on the left Oct 13 06:02:06 freakout: looks like there's a second level limit - 40% or 100MB free - dunno yet which Oct 13 06:02:06 that doesn't really scroll Oct 13 06:02:09 its up down and click Oct 13 06:02:15 i use it for volume controll Oct 13 06:02:20 Jack87: it all takes time for the doctor to install Oct 13 06:02:37 rwhitby: blinkin' flip. It'd be nice to be a fly on the wall at Palm as they watch this investigation unfold... Oct 13 06:03:01 oil, mine is a switch slider same idea i use it for volume unless in browser then its zoom can your press in on the baby wheel thing Oct 13 06:03:10 So it looks like the quickevent person made diffs for universal search to add quickevents into calendar Oct 13 06:03:14 http://webos.pastebin.com/d200d10fe Oct 13 06:03:16 http://webos.pastebin.com/d29118a25 Oct 13 06:03:22 Would it be hard to get these into preware (obviously with their permission of course?) Oct 13 06:03:25 why are you talking about the mx rev lol Oct 13 06:03:31 I need to charge mine right now Oct 13 06:03:56 just wondering how it differs from vx rev egaudet Oct 13 06:03:57 Or does permission even apply since they put Quickevent under Creative Commons license (?) Oct 13 06:03:59 Eguy, Oct 13 06:04:02 ahahahha Oct 13 06:04:17 still not sure can the side wheel be pressed in Oct 13 06:04:19 the eguadet syndrome strikes again Oct 13 06:04:25 it can be pressed in Oct 13 06:04:26 haha Oct 13 06:04:31 ok Oct 13 06:04:41 yeah Oct 13 06:04:42 I use the side push to eject my blu-ray drive Oct 13 06:04:51 uberoptions ftw! Oct 13 06:05:00 so ya with that being the case it has one more button then then the vx... and charging ability Oct 13 06:05:19 I have a VX also Oct 13 06:05:23 for me laptops Oct 13 06:05:41 vx is 30 bucks at costco Oct 13 06:05:57 :( I paid a lot more Oct 13 06:06:00 and 34 for a shitty logitec with nano Oct 13 06:06:02 rwhitby: feel like forcing a build on mason? Oct 13 06:06:06 but I got it years ago Oct 13 06:06:20 well outside costco its like 65-70 Oct 13 06:06:55 I got both the day they were released Oct 13 06:07:23 do you like the mx.. is it better then the vx at all? or are they too similar Oct 13 06:09:00 dBsooner: we're in production now, no more forced builds. Oct 13 06:09:09 blah Oct 13 06:09:12 oh, do you mean kick off a build, or do a rebuild? Oct 13 06:09:14 * dBsooner hates anticipation Oct 13 06:09:19 kick off a build Oct 13 06:09:35 done Oct 13 06:09:39 thanks Oct 13 06:10:00 I like the bigger size Oct 13 06:11:06 rwhitby, http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/208909-fair-dinkum-app-limit-remove-arbitrary-limit-app-installation-10.html#post1971858 Oct 13 06:11:22 done restoring apps to? Oct 13 06:13:20 my hands are tiny.. haha the vx almost feels like a full size mouse lappy mouse Oct 13 06:14:36 i've got a vx for my laptop Oct 13 06:14:51 dBsooner, where did you go to Oct 13 06:15:19 i only have laptop/netbook desktop is used as a shelf with a bunch of crap on it Oct 13 06:15:33 lol Oct 13 06:15:35 im here Oct 13 06:15:38 <3 desktop Oct 13 06:15:49 17" laptop with dual screen Oct 13 06:15:57 I was replying to the post on that new 4x4 Icons v3 I just created. Oct 13 06:16:03 dBsooner, did you figure out where the text emssages/threads are being kept Oct 13 06:16:10 It's quite nice. It is actually my default App Launcher size now. Oct 13 06:16:27 Jack87: they are kept in the database and in text files on the device Oct 13 06:16:29 another 4x4 version? Oct 13 06:16:32 I dont' think there is a way to restore. Oct 13 06:16:35 yeah.. this one is nice. Oct 13 06:17:01 what's the difference between all of them? lol Oct 13 06:17:07 http://www.webos-internals.org/images/5/5c/App-launcher-4x4-icons-v3-1.png Oct 13 06:17:19 This one has larger icons Oct 13 06:17:20 less spacing Oct 13 06:17:25 better word wrapping Oct 13 06:17:35 dBsooner, what about making a copy of the text file and then replacing it when pre is restored Oct 13 06:17:38 Holy crap Oct 13 06:18:45 Jack87: I am not that familiar with how it all intertwines. That might be a question better answered by rod. Oct 13 06:18:52 Eguy: ? Oct 13 06:19:03 I just found out my speakers have a boost mode Oct 13 06:19:21 go boost speakers! Oct 13 06:19:40 The thing is... on medium volume I cracked the floor Oct 13 06:19:46 rwhitby, any insight on restoring text messages? have you played with that side of the phone yet Oct 13 06:19:50 They are 1000 watts :P Oct 13 06:20:03 Jack87: how would I receive a text message? Oct 13 06:20:11 1000w rms? Oct 13 06:20:23 ya i dunno haha Oct 13 06:20:30 like perhaps gtalk messages Oct 13 06:20:31 Yes Oct 13 06:20:40 rwhitby:^ Oct 13 06:20:50 or AIM Oct 13 06:20:52 ill take that as a no Oct 13 06:21:04 rwhitby: duh.. PreMagic! Oct 13 06:21:15 1000w rms yes Oct 13 06:21:40 you can send text messages via gdial pro! :) Oct 13 06:21:59 Jack87: google voice is not available outside the US Oct 13 06:21:59 and recive them (thats if you have google voice which i dont think australia does) Oct 13 06:22:10 but you can still get a US number? Oct 13 06:22:14 rwhitby nailed it Oct 13 06:22:23 Jack87: not from here I can't Oct 13 06:22:30 rwhitby: and to answer your question from earlier. No, I have not received a new avatar yet. Oct 13 06:22:55 Man.. I really like this 4x4 Oct 13 06:22:59 This guy did a good job. Oct 13 06:23:40 lol Oct 13 06:24:05 way to back up text messages.. i have no need for it but it be intresting. who is up for the task Oct 13 06:24:09 who made the one in WOSQI Oct 13 06:24:14 IIRC, en0x did it. Oct 13 06:24:42 That one seems fine to me Oct 13 06:24:44 give credit to all three and only include this one and remove the others Oct 13 06:24:51 s/IIRC/Jack87: IIRC/ Oct 13 06:24:51 dBsooner meant: Jack87: IIRC, en0x did it. Oct 13 06:25:53 Jack87: Nah. There is no reason to take away from everyone else. Some people might like the others. Plus, deleting stuff is not cool if I want to remain inter-program compatible. (Preware, preload, WOSQI, etc) Oct 13 06:26:22 I think en0x restored his sqlite db as well as the messages. Oct 13 06:26:28 I just don't remember how he did it. Oct 13 06:27:06 i see that.. but i feel like in this case when it comes to patches its more of a colabrative effort as in working on prefecting the little bugs from each patch Oct 13 06:27:10 i dunno either way Oct 13 06:29:27 might make pre explode when people start isntalling every patch and not realizing that they are patching the same files with multiple patches Oct 13 06:29:38 ii guess thats their problem Oct 13 06:29:43 not a problem. Oct 13 06:29:54 That's the beauty of AutoPatch(tm) technology. Oct 13 06:29:58 poor aunt minnie Oct 13 06:30:06 wosqi 2.8 is out: http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/206905-webos-quick-install-v2-7-beyond-73.html#post1971902 Oct 13 06:30:09 tell me about autopatch Oct 13 06:30:35 ah yes! was waiting for it Oct 13 06:30:56 More than one patch can touch the same file, as long as they don't modify the same area of the file (same lines) Oct 13 06:31:05 Like messaging app for example.. Oct 13 06:31:10 Jay's on 2.8, and oil and rwhitby are only on 0.9.4? Oct 13 06:31:14 I have like 6 patches that all touch the same file Oct 13 06:31:15 * freakout cracks whip Oct 13 06:31:18 no problems. Oct 13 06:31:18 lol Oct 13 06:31:37 need to remove and reapply patches with new version? Oct 13 06:31:44 very cool..... added new Linux Commandline section for direct Linux access Oct 13 06:31:45 That's because WOSQI is SOO much better than Preware. Gawww. Oct 13 06:32:28 dBsooner, but in this case with the 4x4 patch all three different 4x4 patches touch the same line? Oct 13 06:32:37 yes Oct 13 06:32:39 so they conflict Oct 13 06:32:45 LOL storm watch says the news... there was some mist this morning but nothing else ahhhh gotta love LA Oct 13 06:32:45 it just won't let you install it Oct 13 06:32:54 when you try to install a second one, you will get an error. Oct 13 06:32:56 will it error Oct 13 06:33:00 ok cool Oct 13 06:33:02 mist = crap in German ;P Oct 13 06:33:04 freakout: that just means he too 2.8/0.94 times longer to reach the same level of quality Oct 13 06:33:08 And if an error happens, the package isn't isntalled. Oct 13 06:33:24 rwhitby: good answer. did that come from your agent? :p Oct 13 06:33:42 freakout: no, from my accountant Oct 13 06:33:50 lol Oct 13 06:34:01 so whats the word rwhitby have you come to a conclustion yet... 60% or 150mb? Oct 13 06:34:08 alright, i'm off to bed Oct 13 06:34:12 Jack87: multi-tasking Oct 13 06:34:14 g'night, dBsooner Oct 13 06:34:19 night freak Oct 13 06:34:24 rwhitby has an accountant? Oct 13 06:34:25 oh.. freakout Oct 13 06:34:28 lol Oct 13 06:34:29 hehe Oct 13 06:34:30 dBsooner, you need to wait for the final event Oct 13 06:34:31 close enough Oct 13 06:34:43 when rwhitby concludes his findings Oct 13 06:34:45 must be all that money he made begging for donations... :D kidding Rod ;) Oct 13 06:34:47 Eguy: how do you think I keep track of the millions of dollars in donations Oct 13 06:34:56 Jack87: Blah.. he'll conclude its based on a hard limit Oct 13 06:35:01 I'll put money n it Oct 13 06:35:19 ya.. i bet on that sad i know Oct 13 06:35:22 it's faster to code a hard limit than a percentage calculation Oct 13 06:35:23 anyway goodnight dude Oct 13 06:35:41 granted its only like 10 extra chars, but still. Oct 13 06:35:45 NIght ya'll. Oct 13 06:36:32 this is great 2.8.. Oct 13 06:36:36 see ya db Oct 13 06:41:39 morning mickeyl Oct 13 06:41:47 good morning! Oct 13 06:41:55 so, today is the day here in .de Oct 13 06:42:00 mickeyl: been watching my blog? Oct 13 06:42:15 no, i was travelling too much --let me catch up Oct 13 06:42:41 mickeyl: hopefully not travelling south of the equator with a Pre ... Oct 13 06:43:12 it turns inside out? Oct 13 06:43:13 rwhitby: arrrgh Oct 13 06:43:16 that's crazy Oct 13 06:43:44 lol Oct 13 06:44:05 * Eguy is patching away with the new QI Oct 13 06:44:33 * oil glares Oct 13 06:44:39 * freakout sniggers Oct 13 06:44:48 mickeyl: and 64MB is enough space for anyone to install apps in Oct 13 06:44:55 * Eguy smells freakout's odor Oct 13 06:45:06 ....and loves it! Oct 13 06:45:13 heh, of course Oct 13 06:45:33 just as 640KB was enough already >: Oct 13 06:45:55 mickeyl: absolutely. things never change. Oct 13 06:46:07 ever Oct 13 06:46:13 heh. just like Palm OS has a 4K clipboard limit... Oct 13 06:46:25 +1 for the 640k reference Oct 13 06:46:36 the android solution was to always have a part of nand devoted to upgrades, on a device with too little nand to begin with Oct 13 06:46:51 freakout: and record limit, including memos Oct 13 06:47:07 tmzt: good times... Oct 13 06:47:27 ahhh good ol POS Oct 13 06:47:34 with it's no lag Oct 13 06:47:47 mickeyl: you're in .de? want to buy & send me a Pre? I'll pay ;) Oct 13 06:47:55 freakout: get in line Oct 13 06:47:59 Eguy: until the Treo 700p, lol Oct 13 06:48:01 lol Oct 13 06:48:12 tmzt: the Pre also has an upgrade partition Oct 13 06:48:17 well 700p/755p had lag Centro fixed that Oct 13 06:49:03 Eguy: indeed. i <3 my Centro, even with its stupid crooked screen Oct 13 06:49:39 hahahahah! I have a crooked screen too! Oct 13 06:49:52 did i miss anything Oct 13 06:50:00 * Eguy thinks the Pixi will be a GREAT replacement for the Centro Oct 13 06:50:00 Eguy: lol. Apparently it was a common prob with the Centro Oct 13 06:50:12 Eguy: I automatically tilt it just a tiny bit in my hands now, without thinking Oct 13 06:52:14 "Verizon getting an Android phone (with WiFi tethering!) via Open Development program" Yawn Oct 13 06:52:26 We have that Oct 13 06:52:29 Eguy: centro fixed that how Oct 13 06:52:47 fixed the major lag problems the 7xx series had Oct 13 06:52:50 * oil thinks the pixi's too small for a touchscreen Oct 13 06:53:03 Eguy: right, how? Oct 13 06:53:09 oil: it's bigger than the centro no? Oct 13 06:53:09 the centro is a beast compared to my 680, but still slightly less snappy than the 650 Oct 13 06:53:13 idk Oct 13 06:53:16 i never had one Oct 13 06:53:27 tmzt: Palm used faster RAM chips, IIRC. They also did some tinkering with the OS Oct 13 06:53:28 nor have i held a pixi Oct 13 06:53:33 tmzt: I don't know how but my Centro never laged like my 700p did lol Oct 13 06:53:35 tmzt: removed that annoying white pixel border too Oct 13 06:53:38 im just saying, if its a touchscreen, i want it ot be pretty big Oct 13 06:53:48 That's what she said Oct 13 06:53:51 freakout: it could have been black, it was just additional pixels I think Oct 13 06:53:55 oil: too small? Try a Centro man :p Oct 13 06:54:04 * oil is fine with his pre thank you Oct 13 06:54:14 * freakout glares Oct 13 06:54:27 you're getting one for free though, right? Oct 13 06:54:29 so... Oct 13 06:54:29 stfu Oct 13 06:54:34 centro = 320x320 pixi = 400x320 Oct 13 06:54:34 free? Oct 13 06:54:36 lmao Oct 13 06:54:41 i wish Oct 13 06:54:42 thought you said dude was getting you one Oct 13 06:54:50 yep. I'm paying for it though :p Oct 13 06:54:59 just using his contact Oct 13 06:54:59 mickeyl: I can try to help with X where I can, don't know the Pre's kernel very well though Oct 13 06:55:19 pixi = 2.63in centro = ? Oct 13 06:55:56 2.2" Oct 13 06:56:17 So it is bigger (pixi) Oct 13 06:56:24 and it is 18bit vs 16 bit Oct 13 06:56:26 by a lil bit Oct 13 06:56:29 tmzt: cool, that will come in handy when we got our way around the base system. first i need to buy one though Oct 13 06:56:37 still seems small Oct 13 06:56:47 my games are going to play like poo on it Oct 13 06:56:58 they play like poo on the pre... Oct 13 06:57:03 * freakout chokes back comment about how oil's games play already Oct 13 06:57:07 :P Oct 13 06:57:12 :,( Oct 13 06:57:22 you left the door open Oct 13 06:57:24 you know they're two of the best pre games Oct 13 06:57:33 not much competition LOL Oct 13 06:57:40 oil: they're great. I just hate your dotgame AI because it wins a lot. Oct 13 06:57:42 wordwhirl is really the only other game i've played more then once Oct 13 06:57:56 I just downloaded it, haven't tried it Oct 13 06:58:01 its good Oct 13 06:58:10 though i always come up with words using hte letters that aren't in the list Oct 13 06:58:11 lol Oct 13 06:58:23 I just hit all the keys on the keyboard lol Oct 13 07:01:09 oil: like "kwyjibo"? Oct 13 07:01:23 no Oct 13 07:01:25 real words Oct 13 07:01:30 lol Oct 13 07:01:33 lol Oct 13 07:01:36 oh my god Oct 13 07:01:37 oil fails at Simpsons reference Oct 13 07:01:45 how many weather programs do we need Oct 13 07:01:47 * oil doesn't watch simpsons Oct 13 07:01:50 Eguy: MORE Oct 13 07:02:03 oil: that's, like, first season simpsons! the good stuff! Oct 13 07:02:04 the weather channel just showed up Oct 13 07:02:25 It has ads of course Oct 13 07:02:34 lol Oct 13 07:02:35 at least there is only 1 shitty flashlight app in the catalog Oct 13 07:02:37 and NO fart apps! Oct 13 07:02:41 * Eguy loves the accuweather ad removal mod :D Oct 13 07:02:47 LED flashlight ftw :D Oct 13 07:02:58 srsly Oct 13 07:03:07 $3 for a shopping list app LOL!!!!!!!!!! Oct 13 07:03:07 though, my app is sexier Oct 13 07:03:48 some of the app pricing is rediculous Oct 13 07:03:55 almost all IMO Oct 13 07:04:00 lol Oct 13 07:04:05 I wonder why classic says free Oct 13 07:04:06 indeed eguy Oct 13 07:04:10 wait till dude puts up his $15 calculator Oct 13 07:04:10 thats what i said Oct 13 07:04:15 tittle should say trial Oct 13 07:04:16 Eguy: cause its a trial Oct 13 07:04:18 then you have to pay Oct 13 07:04:19 because tit is a trial Oct 13 07:04:22 you pay them, not palm Oct 13 07:04:24 lol Oct 13 07:04:35 where do I get trial tits jack? Oct 13 07:04:51 haha Oct 13 07:05:01 plastic surgens hand them out for marketing Oct 13 07:05:03 +1 more download for dot game Oct 13 07:05:15 i love dot game! Oct 13 07:05:22 best app in the catalog Oct 13 07:05:31 srsly Oct 13 07:05:36 should be an update soon Oct 13 07:05:39 crap Oct 13 07:05:40 i am being serious Oct 13 07:05:45 I suck at word whirl Oct 13 07:05:56 that version has a bug where it freezes when you try to play the hard ai on large or huge board Oct 13 07:06:03 you rarely are able to finish teh game without it failing Oct 13 07:06:14 taking palm forever to accept it Oct 13 07:06:36 wow... word whirl is pretty good Oct 13 07:06:46 That's one worth buying Oct 13 07:06:47 see Oct 13 07:06:49 like i said Oct 13 07:06:55 the rest though.... eh Oct 13 07:07:00 yes Oct 13 07:07:18 I like the photohunt but they need to stay free Oct 13 07:07:28 well, until blocked is in there xD Oct 13 07:07:41 palms website says blocked and the dotgame update are both "Being Reviewed" Oct 13 07:07:48 * Eguy keeps the free homebrew version :P Oct 13 07:08:01 for blocked Oct 13 07:08:04 itl still be there Oct 13 07:08:08 with all the puzzles Oct 13 07:08:10 and the designer Oct 13 07:08:18 catalog version = no designer Oct 13 07:08:20 I never noticed you added skins Oct 13 07:08:24 srsly Oct 13 07:08:36 the red and blue looked like "..." LOL Oct 13 07:09:02 i hacked that theme out of the dotgame art Oct 13 07:09:14 if you didn't notice the similarities Oct 13 07:09:26 oh dear...my screen is getting loose Oct 13 07:09:32 I might have to tighten it again Oct 13 07:09:57 2.99 word whirl... eh Oct 13 07:10:21 i put blocked in there for 1.99 Oct 13 07:10:36 oil here is a recent review: Baccom Oct 13 07:10:40 never found that one exciting either oil Oct 13 07:10:42 hmm I had similar thoughts Oct 13 07:10:44 lol Oct 13 07:11:16 awwwww they removed downloads Oct 13 07:11:33 its still in the 1.1 catalog Oct 13 07:11:38 * oil has a copy of it on his pre Oct 13 07:11:42 lol Oct 13 07:11:47 i dont see blocked Oct 13 07:11:58 its not in palms catalog yet Oct 13 07:12:02 its still "Being Reviewed" Oct 13 07:12:11 oh Oct 13 07:12:11 IE rejected XD Oct 13 07:12:20 Jack87: filled 50% of 2GB so far ... Oct 13 07:12:22 i hope they're not thinking about trying to beat all 200 puzzles :/ Oct 13 07:12:29 oh wow Oct 13 07:12:34 i can gurantee them they're all beatable Oct 13 07:12:35 so it is a % Oct 13 07:12:37 oil: rejected: puzzles too easy Oct 13 07:12:43 psh Oct 13 07:12:44 rwhitby :O with what??? Oct 13 07:12:45 the expert ones>? Oct 13 07:12:49 Jack87: haven't tested anything yet Oct 13 07:12:53 some of them are crazy hard Oct 13 07:13:00 50+ moves minimum Oct 13 07:13:12 oh you havent attempted to download rwhitby ? Oct 13 07:13:34 nope, I'm creating dummy files on command line in parallel with firstuse restore Oct 13 07:13:51 gonna take it to 59% of 2GB Oct 13 07:14:02 got cha Oct 13 07:14:26 i like jasons command line! its perffect for installing ssh/optware Oct 13 07:14:36 ? Oct 13 07:14:41 no use for it afterwords Oct 13 07:15:21 oil wosqi update 2.8 has linux access http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/206905-webos-quick-install-v2-7-beyond.html Oct 13 07:15:44 it doesn't work as well as a real terminal though Oct 13 07:15:53 Jack87: yeah, that's for the windows weenies who've never experienced a real novaterm Oct 13 07:15:54 lol Oct 13 07:15:55 like i said good for isntalling optware Oct 13 07:16:05 isn't optware in preware? Oct 13 07:16:15 oil: yep. dunno why people are still using scripts ... Oct 13 07:16:30 i havent tried preware version Oct 13 07:16:32 they like to know how it works? Oct 13 07:16:33 dependencies and everything!@! Oct 13 07:16:37 does it allow you to creat user name Oct 13 07:16:37 you know how long that shit took> Oct 13 07:16:40 lol Oct 13 07:16:51 Jack87: no need for username, we use ssh keys and root Oct 13 07:17:02 what are ssh keys? Oct 13 07:17:08 /facepalm Oct 13 07:17:10 ~google ssh keys Oct 13 07:17:14 LOL Oct 13 07:17:29 infobot: no snack for you Oct 13 07:17:41 ~botsnack Oct 13 07:17:41 thanks, oil Oct 13 07:17:50 no rude comment from me this time Oct 13 07:17:55 :) Oct 13 07:18:10 doesnt user name make it much easier Oct 13 07:18:14 * Eguy is waiting for Palm to let mic access in SDK Oct 13 07:18:22 I want some voice recording apps! Oct 13 07:18:42 Jack87: nope, with root access you don't need to worry about su Oct 13 07:19:23 maybe i am just not understanding what i am reading rwhitby i wil have to give it a shot my next run at a fresh os Oct 13 07:20:11 my preware doesn't support scripts... :( Oct 13 07:20:20 ;,,,( Oct 13 07:20:29 how is the key made. and where is it stored Oct 13 07:21:00 Jack87: see the homepage links for dropbear and openssh in Preware. doco is there, as for any app. Oct 13 07:21:01 * oil thinks eguy should fix his preware Oct 13 07:21:16 oil: maybe he doesn't know the secret code Oct 13 07:21:18 * Eguy does not have enough knowledge Oct 13 07:21:33 I need more credits Oct 13 07:22:41 rwhitby, secret code? is that a joke? or is there a secret code like jason's porgram Oct 13 07:22:53 jason's program has a secret code? Oct 13 07:23:06 It's "Ihateamericans" :P Oct 13 07:23:06 yes Oct 13 07:23:15 preware is open source. how could we hide a secret code if we had one? Oct 13 07:23:42 help>about and when window pops up type nova Oct 13 07:23:53 secret menu will come up Oct 13 07:23:57 you closed source the file that isn't open source that contains a secret code Oct 13 07:24:30 It should of stayed as nova Oct 13 07:24:35 Eguy: Preware is GPLv2 - bit hard to link in that scenario ... Oct 13 07:25:04 That's what we think... Oct 13 07:25:23 It's really sharware Oct 13 07:25:37 s/sharware/shareware/ Oct 13 07:25:38 Eguy meant: It's really shareware Oct 13 07:26:18 donation of $35.67 is appreciated Oct 13 07:26:51 i cant see optware in preware anymore anywhere Oct 13 07:27:00 is it supposed to be in webos internals feed Oct 13 07:27:02 It's under webosinternals Oct 13 07:27:07 no Oct 13 07:27:11 optware is it's own feed Oct 13 07:27:35 Jack87: 86%, 287412 free Oct 13 07:28:12 how do you get to the feed list in preware? I forgot? Oct 13 07:28:23 ya i have it isntalled and all still noda Oct 13 07:28:24 preferences>feeds button Oct 13 07:29:24 ahh Oct 13 07:29:31 It was hidden there with the dark theme Oct 13 07:30:23 its not hidden Oct 13 07:30:26 its clearly visible Oct 13 07:30:35 well not hidden but hard to notice Oct 13 07:30:58 oil can never win with this feeds thing Oct 13 07:31:07 lol Oct 13 07:31:11 rwhitby: would categories be better or is this a way of making all equal or similar to debian approach? Oct 13 07:31:12 i cant Oct 13 07:31:14 (list of feeds) Oct 13 07:31:16 all feeds are turned on oil still cant find it.. oh well i will look some more Oct 13 07:31:27 categories of feeds Oct 13 07:31:32 I mean, not applictions Oct 13 07:31:47 I still want to know why my preware can't run prerm or postinst Oct 13 07:31:54 rwhitby, jason wanted to say hi to me Oct 13 07:32:20 did you really not know about the secret panel rwhitby Oct 13 07:33:00 Jack87: Considering the number of times I've run JD-GUI on WOSQI ... Oct 13 07:33:42 he does have the option to automatically isntall into /media/internal/applications/ Oct 13 07:33:48 and symlink Oct 13 07:33:51 i dunno if it works Oct 13 07:34:03 never tried it... i dunno as if i trust it as of yet Oct 13 07:34:38 I didn't notice that menu Oct 13 07:34:42 cool beans Oct 13 07:35:18 Jack87: Fair Dinkum allows installation at 87% of 2GB with 287MB free Oct 13 07:35:32 wow Oct 13 07:35:53 wow Oct 13 07:36:16 so after meta doctor and fair dinkum there is no limit it seems like Oct 13 07:36:35 i wonder if you actualyl need fair dinkum Oct 13 07:36:40 I am at 54% after Fair Dinkum and still tickin Oct 13 07:36:44 try taking that out and install Oct 13 07:36:58 wait till you hit 60 egaudet Oct 13 07:37:01 Eguy, Oct 13 07:37:09 fail Oct 13 07:37:22 tab twice Oct 13 07:37:39 rwhitby, remove fair dinkum and try to isntall from catalog Oct 13 07:37:43 Eguy, got it Oct 13 07:37:47 Jack87: yes, you need fair dinkum Oct 13 07:37:51 I tested that first Oct 13 07:37:59 rwhitby, good to know Oct 13 07:38:09 Jack87: I suspect it's a 100MB free limit. testing that now Oct 13 07:38:13 I still wonder why Palm put this stupid limit in the first place Oct 13 07:38:23 whats the difference... why is it stuck at 60%/150mb from default dr Oct 13 07:38:29 maybe because you used canadian Oct 13 07:38:29 we should not need Fiair Dinkum Oct 13 07:38:40 oy Oct 13 07:38:51 s/Fiair/Fair Oct 13 07:38:58 crap Oct 13 07:39:00 oh well Oct 13 07:39:14 Jack87: it's 60% 100MB free normally Oct 13 07:39:34 I had it at 40% Oct 13 07:39:45 certainly more than 100mb free? Oct 13 07:39:47 96% 79M free install fails Oct 13 07:39:53 got it Oct 13 07:39:59 so its not fill limit Oct 13 07:40:06 its a 100mb free limit Oct 13 07:40:15 looks like it, testing the boundary soon Oct 13 07:40:46 conclusion is plam has a free limit for app instalation on top of 64m Oct 13 07:41:19 looks like default limits are 64MB installed and 100M free. Oct 13 07:41:23 think you can do anything with fair dinkum to remove the free space limit? or make it 20mb rather then 100? Oct 13 07:41:48 considering there is a reason for a free limit Oct 13 07:42:05 just rather make it a smaller limit and not change var partition size Oct 13 07:42:59 how about adding a gui to fair dinkum Oct 13 07:43:21 how about rewriting webOS from scratch Oct 13 07:43:48 to enable and disable the limits when needed can just rely on the pkg mngr Oct 13 07:44:23 a gui with switches that bassically run scripts? Oct 13 07:44:32 like flash light? Oct 13 07:44:54 make it safer when updating webos? Oct 13 07:44:59 rwhitby: hah :) Oct 13 07:45:20 lol someone say something am i just being stupid or does this make sense? Oct 13 07:45:27 seriously though, wrapper with md5 checker and one fake report would be an issue? Oct 13 07:45:36 (per execution) Oct 13 07:45:50 md5 might be too much, crc maybe Oct 13 07:46:01 since it will be needed per luna startup Oct 13 07:46:44 actually, I don't know how those things store anything locally, I would have to look at adsp/stunnel/etc. Oct 13 07:46:59 ok jack will shut up now Oct 13 07:48:39 * Eguy go sleep now Oct 13 07:48:51 * oil too Oct 13 07:49:00 * freakout tucks Eguy and oil in Oct 13 07:49:05 No shenanigans, you two. Oct 13 07:49:12 woah Oct 13 07:49:29 99876 blocks free, no install Oct 13 07:49:35 * oil begins... shenaniganing ? Oct 13 07:49:45 again freakout, no need to share your fantasies with the channel. Oct 13 07:49:58 lol Oct 13 07:50:26 freakout, missed all the excitment with faridinkum Oct 13 07:50:30 Fine, I'll just keep replaying them over and over in my head Oct 13 07:50:35 Jack87, catching up now Oct 13 07:50:50 g'night folk Oct 13 07:51:04 100000 block available, no install Oct 13 07:51:17 There it is! Oct 13 07:53:44 exciting stuff rwhitby so has your analysis been finalized Oct 13 07:53:55 nope Oct 13 07:53:59 lol Oct 13 07:54:12 101772 free, no install Oct 13 07:54:23 god... im never going to sleep tonight Oct 13 07:54:55 117792, install works Oct 13 07:54:58 I expect sleep, in about an hour, which is about 4 hours past when I should of been asleep 'by the latest' Oct 13 07:55:05 aka, another typical night. Oct 13 07:55:16 hehe punzada Oct 13 07:55:37 wow looks like i might just be giong to sleep he is getting close to finalize this thing i can feel it Oct 13 07:55:50 104132, install works Oct 13 07:56:02 I'm running out of free apps ... Oct 13 07:56:37 you can always use homebrew with file coaster Oct 13 07:56:43 man i havent used that since its release date Oct 13 07:57:25 wouldnt file coaster do the same as app catalog when installing homebrew? Oct 13 07:57:33 102400, install works Oct 13 07:57:47 what's file coaster/ Oct 13 07:57:49 it has its own feed for precentral so no need to manualy input urls Oct 13 07:57:59 haha your kidding! Oct 13 07:58:08 ive seen you comment about it multiple times Oct 13 07:58:09 102244, install fails Oct 13 07:58:20 looks like 100MiB Oct 13 07:58:26 he doesn't need to know about it, it's been made irrelevant :P Oct 13 07:58:27 102400 blocks Oct 13 07:59:02 well.. yes punzada but in this case it could be a handy tool when he runs out of free apps in the catalog Oct 13 07:59:10 * punzada nods Oct 13 07:59:51 but then again i dunno if fairkinum will resolve the app limit issue in file coaster like it does in the official catalog Oct 13 08:00:07 fairdinkum*? Oct 13 08:00:23 i would just imagine so but i dunno Oct 13 08:00:32 102396, fails Oct 13 08:00:33 they use the exact same install method Oct 13 08:01:05 oil, thats what i thought Oct 13 08:01:30 ok Oct 13 08:01:30 so in theory it fairdinkum will fix app limit for file coaster as well Oct 13 08:01:34 * oil is really going to sleep now Oct 13 08:01:43 as long as you have more then 100mb free Oct 13 08:01:48 100MiB Oct 13 08:01:50 i was told to start on the irc mojo before the service will be written Oct 13 08:01:54 good night oil Oct 13 08:01:56 and its underway Oct 13 08:02:15 is that your final answer rwhitby Oct 13 08:04:46 yes Oct 13 08:06:14 service or proxy for a simplified irc client in javascript? Oct 13 08:06:57 so app limit is 64mb full and if by passed that 100mb free Oct 13 08:07:10 is that the correct way of wording it rwhitby Oct 13 08:07:40 my interest would be in something that could be used remotely or with something like irssi as a plugin, but I don't have any immediate need for that on webos Oct 13 08:08:23 Jack87: installation is prevented when there is more than 64MiB installed, or less than 100MiB free. Oct 13 08:08:38 * rwhitby bbl Oct 13 08:09:30 unless using fairdinkum... at this point you do not have the 64mb installed limit but still encounter the 100mb free limit Oct 13 08:10:11 i still think having a gui for fair dinkum with simple enable disable buttons could go a long way. if this is crazy talk please tell me Oct 13 08:14:40 bye all... Oct 13 08:14:45 have a goodnight Oct 13 08:17:58 there are multiple symlink instructions on wiki Oct 13 08:18:00 which is best Oct 13 08:24:37 rwhitby, i added a reply to your last post in fair dinkum thread you might want to edit your original post and add what you found there as well Oct 13 08:26:13 Jack87: why would you ever disable Fair Dinkum? Oct 13 08:26:26 in order for a webos dr Oct 13 08:26:30 i mean update Oct 13 08:26:33 not dr Oct 13 08:26:42 just to keep everything kosher Oct 13 08:27:12 esspesially if you can add the ability to remove the free space limit Oct 13 08:27:44 i guess it makes no difference.. but when it comes to updates.. Oct 13 08:28:03 i know you always have the remove option in preware... Oct 13 08:28:15 but never the less.. like i said it might just be crazy talk Oct 13 08:40:05 fair dinkum is not affected by webos updates Oct 13 08:40:09 * rwhitby bbl Oct 13 08:42:27 rwhitby, Oct 13 08:42:40 heck the line which has /var at the end. If the number before the percentage is less than 102400, then you have reached the free space limit. Oct 13 08:42:47 that should read as... Oct 13 08:43:18 neve mind Oct 13 08:55:18 rwhitby, i added a screen shot to number 5 Oct 13 08:55:27 well.. i quoted you Oct 13 08:57:06 rwhitby, also posted instuction in the meta-doctor thread on how to install ubuntu without partitioning hard drive and doing dual boot that should help Oct 13 09:01:35 goodnight Oct 13 09:33:51 waaaw Oct 13 09:34:27 webos, anti ntfs Oct 13 09:40:05 hmm? Oct 13 10:08:10 yay, /me is finally a GSM Pre owner. :) Oct 13 10:56:19 stefan_schmidt: german? congrats mate! Oct 13 10:56:33 * freakout is insanely jealous Oct 13 10:56:58 * freakout is still waiting to hear from his boss, who is waiting to hear from his .de contact who is going to buy mine :) Oct 13 10:58:28 freakout: yeah, .de Oct 13 10:58:51 stefan_schmidt: build quality up to scratch? Oct 13 10:59:13 freakout: yup, I like it Oct 13 10:59:34 stefan_schmidt, excellent. I hope mine survive the shipping process :) Oct 13 10:59:46 did you go contract or handy? Oct 13 11:00:10 freakout: device only Oct 13 11:11:30 stefan_schmidt: tried any patches yet ;) Oct 13 11:12:32 freakout: so far i got myself a root shell and installed preware Oct 13 11:12:57 freakout: the plan is to replace everything in userspace Oct 13 11:13:01 there's a wiki page somewhere Oct 13 11:13:12 tmzt: cool, will go hunting Oct 13 11:13:16 http://www.freesmartphone.org/index.php/Palm_Pre_Challenge Oct 13 11:13:17 not patches of js stuff Oct 13 11:13:27 tmzt: For now we need the system :) Oct 13 11:13:35 hah, why? Oct 13 11:13:49 tmzt: Dumping alsa states and other research Oct 13 11:13:55 ah, right Oct 13 11:13:58 other research? Oct 13 11:14:01 straceing the modem communication etx Oct 13 11:14:04 etc Oct 13 11:14:10 lots of stuff Oct 13 11:14:28 And I like the webos system a lot. :) Oct 13 11:14:49 well, yeah Oct 13 11:14:50 stefan_schmidt, that's cool Oct 13 11:14:51 it's cool Oct 13 11:15:14 which is why I'm looking for a combination maemo5/6 and webos system on fast arm processor Oct 13 11:15:30 webos-type system Oct 13 11:16:04 freakout: thanks. We will see how far we come. Oct 13 11:16:36 any reason why trying an oe/angstrom image with AT commands wouldn't work Oct 13 11:16:50 maybe to test Palm's commitment/conformance with linux26 interfaces? Oct 13 11:17:08 (like a ltk mobile or whatever) Oct 13 11:17:15 tmzt: Likely no AT commands.... http://www.freesmartphone.org/index.php/PalmPreGSM Oct 13 11:17:24 stefan_schmidt, are you on O2 or a different network? Oct 13 11:17:37 (or any network at all?) Oct 13 11:17:45 freakout: O2, but tested it with E-Plaus yetserday. Really no SIM lock Oct 13 11:18:01 stefan_schmidt: *excellent*, that's what I wanted to hear :) :) Oct 13 11:18:03 mickeyl: wake up Oct 13 11:18:11 mickeyl: get your pre! :) Oct 13 11:18:18 over which port? Oct 13 11:18:20 freakout: figured it. :) Oct 13 11:19:08 so they extended qualcomm DM? Oct 13 11:19:13 (for charging)? Oct 13 11:19:50 tmzt: Well the msm is used in the Samsung Omnia without AT commands as well. Just a different firmware for the modem. Oct 13 11:20:13 We need to figure out if they stil accept AT commands and if not RE the proto. Oct 13 11:20:35 Anyway, on step at a time. First I need an ssh server and alsa-utils installed. :) Oct 13 11:20:42 And get a better system overview Oct 13 11:21:05 btw, congrats to anyone worked on preware. It's _really_ nice Oct 13 11:22:13 looks like DM is used over two ports and DIAG is exposed to pc for qpst Oct 13 11:22:28 but ok, it's your process :) Oct 13 11:23:17 tmzt: modem contact is the most important part for us so mickeyl can start his fsogsmd magic. Still we need a good system overview first. Oct 13 11:23:24 do packets begin with 0xfa or 0x29 and end with 0x7e? Oct 13 11:24:07 well, if you get something called QMAT and run it in wine, you might find a useful list of DM commands Oct 13 11:24:20 Haven't looked at the assembler myself yet. Morphis did it so far. Oct 13 11:24:28 (QMAT) interesting Oct 13 11:24:32 it's not free but there's a demo and the developer is responsive in #xda-devs Oct 13 11:24:42 ok Oct 13 11:24:45 (viperbjk) Oct 13 11:25:03 will be back here once we finally come to the point to do some research on the modem Oct 13 11:25:14 DM commands begin with 0x7e, why I ask Oct 13 11:26:04 thanks Oct 13 11:26:06 * stefan_schmidt needs to grab some food now, later Oct 13 11:28:12 stefan_schmidt: got a Pre hey? Oct 13 11:28:41 rwhitby: yeah :) Oct 13 11:28:47 rwhitby: And I love it :) Oct 13 11:29:23 can yours connect to local networks? Oct 13 11:29:33 stefan_schmidt: you've got optware at your fingertips yet? Oct 13 11:29:38 * stefan_schmidt abbadons food Oct 13 11:29:46 ~spell abbadon Oct 13 11:29:48 possible spellings for abbadon: abandon Ibadan abating abiding aboding abrading abalone Abbot Baden abbot baton obtain Abran Aldon Aberdeen Barbadian Bordon Baudoin Adan adorn Actaeon Auberon abstain beading Aidan abdomen abode Aldan Abbott Audion Barton aboard abbots Aden Bataan Urbano abed Abidjan Arden Auden Eaton Urban abate abide ebbed urban Abbot's abbot's Ibadan's Oct 13 11:30:19 abandon? Oct 13 11:30:31 yup Oct 13 11:30:48 rwhitby: I installed preware which should have the optware feed, no? Oct 13 11:30:59 tmzt: What local networks you mean? GSM or wifi? Oct 13 11:31:01 stefan_schmidt: only a couple of optware packages have been ported. Oct 13 11:31:03 gsm Oct 13 11:31:05 rwhitby: ah Oct 13 11:31:10 I only mean rwhitby's can't Oct 13 11:31:14 rwhitby: What about alsa-utils, etc? Oct 13 11:31:20 stefan_schmidt: you want to install the ipkg-opt stuff to get the full 1300+ packages Oct 13 11:31:32 stefan_schmidt: we have a bootstrap script Oct 13 11:31:32 tmzt: yes, it's the GSM version launched today in .de Oct 13 11:31:45 rwhitby: cool, that's what I need :) Oct 13 11:32:06 oh oh oh gsm pre Oct 13 11:32:08 stefan_schmidt: do you guys have a webOS Doctor available ? Oct 13 11:32:28 rwhitby: I checked in the night and only found sprint and bell ones Oct 13 11:32:35 need to check again Oct 13 11:32:46 stefan_schmidt: do you have novaterm working yet? Oct 13 11:33:04 rwhitby: yes, was the first thing I did. :) Oct 13 11:33:34 ok, http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Next_steps Oct 13 11:33:37 It's nice to build on the shoulders of this big community instead figuring all yourself :) Oct 13 11:34:17 rwhitby: great, will do this now Oct 13 11:34:23 stefan_schmidt: just do optware setup, and quilt if you want to create webOS patches on the phone instead of the emulator Oct 13 11:34:35 yeah Oct 13 11:34:35 stefan_schmidt: oh, do you guys have a matching emulator version? Oct 13 11:34:45 rwhitby: no idea Oct 13 11:35:34 stefan_schmidt: the bootstrap script creates an unpriviledged user and sudo, but you can just change the dropbear or openssh upstart scripts if you want direct root ssh key login Oct 13 11:36:15 yup, I like that better Oct 13 11:36:20 stefan_schmidt: dropbear and openssh and bash and nano are the things we have packaged up for preware with screenshots and icons and stuff Oct 13 11:36:33 stefan_schmidt: so just run the scripts and then modify later Oct 13 11:36:42 rwhitby: will do Oct 13 11:37:03 but really, running the setup script and getting ipkg-opt with the full 1300+ optware feed makes so much more sense Oct 13 11:37:13 rwhitby: Any preferences where we put our research in the webos internals wiki? Oct 13 11:37:20 rwhitby: namespace or such? Oct 13 11:37:21 has anyone confirmed gsm pre is 6800 based yet? Oct 13 11:37:27 stefan_schmidt: there's a research area Oct 13 11:37:36 stefan_schmidt: there is a research portal page, just normal pages off there is fine Oct 13 11:37:43 rick_home: ah, cool. So it's settled. :) Oct 13 11:37:53 ok, will start that later today Oct 13 11:38:09 stefan_schmidt: do us a favor and make nice CLEAR titles for your pages as you work. Oct 13 11:38:21 rick_home: will do Oct 13 11:38:40 stefan_schmidt: how did you install Preware? Oct 13 11:38:46 Do you guys have a mailing list next to the forum? Oct 13 11:39:06 stefan_schmidt: we have a google groups mailing list, but it is really idle. Oct 13 11:39:11 rwhitby: novaterm and the linux expert option to setup the feeds by hand :) Oct 13 11:39:26 stefan_schmidt: http://get.preware.org/ Oct 13 11:39:39 rwhitby: hmm, so I stay with IRC for now Oct 13 11:39:57 rwhitby: ah, well. Commandline is fine for me. :) Oct 13 11:40:02 stefan_schmidt: we can start using the google groups mailing list Oct 13 11:40:12 stefan_schmidt: this stuff has been moving _so fast_ that the mailing list just didn't seem immediate enough for most of us. Oct 13 11:40:24 but if someone STARTED using the mailing list, we would be happy Oct 13 11:40:39 ok, need to think about it. Oct 13 11:40:42 stefan_schmidt: note that THIS irc channel is publicly logged so if you miss something you can go back and find it Oct 13 11:40:57 We will have two different topics. Pre research and FSO development Oct 13 11:40:57 stefan_schmidt: http://groups.google.com/group/webos-internals/ and -announce Oct 13 11:41:11 For FSO we will of course use the freesmartphone.org lists Oct 13 11:41:30 stefan_schmidt: I can make you guys admins of the google group mailing list Oct 13 11:41:45 of course, but please cross post research conclusions onto the wiki..... Oct 13 11:41:59 But not to much organization today. Need to get my hands dirty. :) Oct 13 11:42:03 and links to critical fso info off the wiki would be appriciated.... Oct 13 11:42:14 stefan_schmidt: understood Oct 13 11:42:27 stefan_schmidt: we have things like tcpdump, etc in optware Oct 13 11:42:27 rick_home: Pre research will stay in the webos internals wiki. Oct 13 11:42:32 Happy to have you aboard stefan_schmidt -- we now have a complete set of overlapping time zones. Oct 13 11:42:38 :) Oct 13 11:42:43 ok, guys. LAter. Oct 13 11:42:49 Food and solme hacking now. :) Oct 13 11:43:03 we'll be looking forward to it Oct 13 11:43:07 stefan_schmidt: one last question - price of unlocked GSM Pre? Oct 13 11:43:17 rwhitby: 481EUR Oct 13 11:43:19 * freakout can field that one Oct 13 11:43:21 481 EU Oct 13 11:43:24 lol Oct 13 11:43:26 never mind Oct 13 11:43:44 rwhitby: almost exactly what you prediced months ago. Oct 13 11:43:51 predicted Oct 13 11:44:13 stefan_schmidt: so AUD$790 Oct 13 11:44:50 It's already on ebay for 450 EU Oct 13 11:44:57 stefan_schmidt: if you can work out between the guys who know me there who can do me a favour and ship one to Australia, I would appreciate it. Oct 13 11:45:17 ebay.de, though, and no international shipping that I can spot as of yet Oct 13 11:45:28 rwhitby: That should be possible of course. Oct 13 11:45:40 rwhitby: Lte me contact you tomorrow in private for the details Oct 13 11:45:49 stefan_schmidt: ok, you have my email ? Oct 13 11:45:57 rwhitby: yes Oct 13 11:46:17 freakout: how much was shipping? Oct 13 11:46:41 rwhitby: shipping included it appeared, but again only to .de Oct 13 11:46:56 freakout: I mean how much is shipping costing you Oct 13 11:47:00 rwhitby: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.de%2FPalm-Pre-8GB-Smartphone-OVP-NEU_W0QQitemZ150379305779QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDE_Handys_ohne_Vertrag_KM%3Fhash%3Ditem23034e1b33%26_trksid%3Dp3286.c0.m14 Oct 13 11:47:24 rwhitby: haven't determined that yet, still waiting to hear from my contact. will hopefully have word tomorrow Oct 13 11:48:27 stefan_schmidt: can someone there accept Paypal for payment? Oct 13 11:48:35 (in advance) Oct 13 11:49:58 rwhitby: yes Oct 13 11:50:09 lol i'm back and i see that rwhitby fixed the limit "kind of" Oct 13 11:50:10 rwhitby: I can do this Oct 13 11:50:54 stefan_schmidt: I will make a $500EUR downpayment, and fix up the shipping delta later? Oct 13 11:51:04 rwhitby: Some googling reckons shipping will be around 50-70 EUR Oct 13 11:51:20 which is probably a bit on the high side Oct 13 11:51:29 bbl Oct 13 11:55:19 rwhitby: sounds good Oct 13 12:04:40 so does the european pre have sim lock? Oct 13 12:09:03 That probably depends on the carrier/country Oct 13 12:09:41 If it ever arrives to Finland, it'll probably be unlocked Oct 13 12:14:19 the GSM pre in Germany is confirmed this AM to be free of sim lock Oct 13 12:14:45 of course it is a qwertz keyboard not a qwerty keyboard Oct 13 12:16:08 quertz is bad ;P Oct 13 12:17:57 well yes, quertz WOULD be bad Oct 13 12:18:11 but qwertz, well it IS a german phone Oct 13 12:18:24 i klnow Oct 13 12:18:49 note that there is already a team working on that. If they have an UNLOCKED one, and a LOCKED on (irish) they _should_ be able to get there. Oct 13 12:18:49 it would be cool to have gsm pre so i could use it everywhere Oct 13 12:18:56 rick_home, en0x: that's where homebrew keymappers come in :) Oct 13 12:19:00 expect reports in the research portal of the wiki...... Oct 13 12:19:17 freakout: and tiny tiny paintbrushes..... Oct 13 12:19:23 lol Oct 13 12:22:31 freakout: I have to LOOK at the keyboard to thumb type anyway... Oct 13 12:22:35 if you don't more power to you Oct 13 12:23:03 rick_home: years of Treos / Centro has me perfectly in sync with Palm's thumb boards Oct 13 12:23:22 can touch-type no worries Oct 13 12:23:24 ahhhh Oct 13 12:24:30 well then AUD 785 and you're all set Oct 13 12:24:34 plus shipping Oct 13 12:24:42 rick_home: lol. yep, hefty sum Oct 13 12:24:51 rick_home: but it'll make my blogging job a helluva lot easier Oct 13 12:25:14 rick_home: plus I've been waiting for a UMTS Palm (that wasn't winmob) forEVER Oct 13 12:25:18 propably your only choice any time soon, considering palm doesn't even HAVE an AU office any more. Oct 13 12:25:29 * freakout nods sagely Oct 13 12:25:31 bbs Oct 13 12:42:55 hey guys i just installed the SDK, etc on Vista but it still says it cannot find the novacom driver everytime i connect my phone Oct 13 12:43:14 is there something special I have to do to make this stop asking that :) Oct 13 13:11:35 I running the Doctor and having trouble it gets to 6% and just hangs. After a while it says the device is disconnected and just the white palm is left on the screen. Anyone know what to do? Oct 13 13:14:33 jcrawford: I had the same problem Oct 13 13:15:16 rwhitby: Any chance you could put alsa-utils-alsactl and alsa-utils-alsamixer in the optware feed? Oct 13 13:15:19 jcrawford, check your Task Manager. If you can see novacomd running, then you can safely hit ignore Oct 13 13:15:32 jcrawford: and things should work anyway. Oct 13 13:16:06 Having a root shell over wifi and the pre on the touchstone is a nice working env. :D Oct 13 13:17:38 stefan_schmidt: how much does the Pre package weigh, roughly? Oct 13 13:18:00 (i'm looking at a german package forwarding service) Oct 13 13:18:12 freakout: hmm, not that much. I would say under 0,5kg Oct 13 13:19:02 freakout: I can let you know when I bought one for rwhitby and prepare it for shipping Oct 13 13:19:09 stefan_schmidt: thanks! Oct 13 13:20:53 rwhitby: This page: http://www.addressgermany.com charges EUR 14.50 for a 1kg package shipping to Australia, with a flat fee of EUR 10.00 on top. Oct 13 13:53:23 good morning Oct 13 13:53:38 mornin Oct 13 13:54:35 whats new this mornign Oct 13 13:55:21 well sprint nav has a leak Oct 13 13:55:21 ;] Oct 13 13:55:41 memory leak? Oct 13 13:55:44 or hack leak Oct 13 13:55:45 oh yea it made my phone restart a few time before Oct 13 13:55:47 a memory leak... after driving 100 miles i found out that I can;t run any more apps "no memory please close your apps" Oct 13 13:55:49 memorry leak Oct 13 13:56:03 with only sprint nav open ;) Oct 13 13:56:04 haha, on top of being a huge battery hog Oct 13 13:56:05 yey! Oct 13 13:56:15 Still a pretty good app tho, did better than my gf's tomtom Oct 13 13:56:17 AnOutsider: oh yes Oct 13 13:56:20 yea Oct 13 13:56:22 i love it Oct 13 13:56:39 forgot what i did to make it leak Oct 13 13:56:39 lol Oct 13 13:56:47 well with sprint nav open and connected it to charger it took me 6 hours to charge the battery from 30% to 100% Oct 13 13:56:47 jcrawford did you get novacom installed? Oct 13 13:56:50 :p Oct 13 13:57:01 but the maps are good Oct 13 13:57:08 rwhitby: you still awake? Oct 13 13:57:11 i used it in NYC last weekend Oct 13 13:57:30 en0x: how did that go Oct 13 13:57:39 stefan_schmidt you got optware all installed? Oct 13 13:57:42 well it worked great no complains Oct 13 13:57:46 cool cool Oct 13 13:57:49 except few gliches in downtown Oct 13 13:57:56 couldn't get gps lock Oct 13 13:57:56 :p Oct 13 13:57:56 Rick_work: do you have access to a linux shell there at work? Oct 13 13:58:01 i want to try those gps hacks and see how it works Oct 13 13:58:02 Rick_work: yup, working fine. I just miss to alsa packages that are not yet in the feed Oct 13 13:58:13 because of high buildings iu guess Oct 13 13:58:26 * stefan_schmidt just prepares a script to resize the lvm and make space for our own rootfs Oct 13 13:59:19 dBsooner-work yes Oct 13 13:59:21 why? Oct 13 13:59:52 Can you download a zip and run it to create the tar gz Oct 13 14:00:12 I need to see if this script is sending out the entire .ko file or just a patch to it Oct 13 14:00:35 It's the browser iphone uagent spoof Oct 13 14:01:01 they distribute it as an extracting shell script Oct 13 14:01:19 http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/200656-how-make-all-mobile-websites-display-perfectly-10.html#post1964747 Oct 13 14:07:23 if the way they are sending it out is not in violation of any copyright distrobutions, I am thinking about putting it into the autopatch feed Oct 13 14:09:45 but I need egaudet or rwhitby to confirm it's safe. Oct 13 14:10:39 lets see Oct 13 14:10:47 if i can extract the tar out of it Oct 13 14:10:47 dbsooner -- it didn't extract Oct 13 14:11:02 dBsooner-work it didn't extract Oct 13 14:11:12 hmm Oct 13 14:11:14 the script SEEMS to make sense. Oct 13 14:11:17 gimme aminute Oct 13 14:11:19 ill extract it now Oct 13 14:11:25 see whats in it Oct 13 14:12:53 the script makes sense .. cut everything after END SCRIPT and make it a tarball I believe Oct 13 14:13:08 yeah Oct 13 14:13:09 I just can't edit it on my work windows laptop Oct 13 14:13:13 but the result wouldn't untar Oct 13 14:13:31 odd beacause people are saying it works.. hmm Oct 13 14:13:45 did you try it as gzipped compressed? Oct 13 14:17:01 im extracting it now Oct 13 14:17:08 weird Oct 13 14:17:13 atlanta thank you Oct 13 14:17:18 np Oct 13 14:20:33 i just need to know the contents of the tar Oct 13 14:20:43 if its the entire .ko, ill have to think about it. Oct 13 14:21:05 k Oct 13 14:21:24 basically there should be a script in the tar as well Oct 13 14:21:31 pastebin me the contents of the screipt Oct 13 14:21:45 not the first script that creates the tar, but the script inside the tar Oct 13 14:21:48 runme.sh Oct 13 14:21:51 yeah Oct 13 14:21:58 ok Oct 13 14:21:59 its in that forum post you just put up Oct 13 14:22:15 http://webos.pastebin.com/d535376d1 Oct 13 14:22:19 thats the first one Oct 13 14:23:11 thats it my bad Oct 13 14:23:41 get it Oct 13 14:23:47 ? Oct 13 14:23:49 thanks atlanta Oct 13 14:23:53 yeah.. I am reading it Oct 13 14:23:54 no problem Oct 13 14:23:58 k Oct 13 14:24:45 cool Oct 13 14:24:49 it looks like a patch Oct 13 14:24:54 bzdiff patch Oct 13 14:25:25 yep Oct 13 14:25:34 with a before and after md5 check Oct 13 14:25:48 i wonder if GNU patch can do binary patching? Oct 13 14:26:48 atlanta: can you email me the extracted contents? the tarball basically. dBsooner@dbtrunk.com Oct 13 14:26:59 hold on Oct 13 14:29:04 gnu patch has a -binary option Oct 13 14:29:16 awesome Oct 13 14:29:43 check your PM dBsooner-work Oct 13 14:30:33 dBsooner-work basically, the answer is "no" Oct 13 14:30:40 gnupatch works by lines Oct 13 14:30:52 Rick_work: hmm Oct 13 14:31:21 Rick_work: so basically I would have to run all the commands in a postinst seperate from the other patches Oct 13 14:31:33 yeah Oct 13 14:31:34 because other patches default to GNU patch Oct 13 14:31:44 and removal by ERP Oct 13 14:31:52 http://www.daemonology.net/bsdiff/ Oct 13 14:32:09 I will have to discuss this with egaudet when he decides to show. Oct 13 14:32:27 how did the guy patch it Oct 13 14:32:32 reversing using asm? Oct 13 14:33:10 binary editor Oct 13 14:33:16 then get the diff with bsdiff Oct 13 14:33:21 i would assume. Oct 13 14:33:45 oh he just took the file from the iphone/ Oct 13 14:33:45 ? Oct 13 14:34:02 ok i see Oct 13 14:35:02 no Oct 13 14:35:11 he probably just binary edited the file Oct 13 14:35:22 gotcha yea i had read it wrong Oct 13 14:36:53 my only problem is going to be trying to keep it EPR compatible. Oct 13 14:37:51 how does the EPR work exactly Oct 13 14:37:51 ? Oct 13 14:38:06 that's a question for egaudet. ;) Oct 13 14:38:41 oh flail, the webos qi link is broken Oct 13 14:42:46 * dBsooner-work has no need for WOSQI Oct 13 14:42:58 lol Oct 13 14:43:00 second that Oct 13 14:45:33 gonna work on the auto call block app tonight Oct 13 14:45:45 pondering on exactly how to go about it Oct 13 14:45:47 btw, everyone wish egaudet a happy birthday today Oct 13 14:46:10 oh shit its emoney's birthday Oct 13 14:46:23 that's the rumor Oct 13 14:46:24 egaudet: HAPPY BIRTHDAY ! Oct 13 14:46:42 dBsooner-work, i'm throwing preware on 2 peoples' pres today that dont need to be mucking about in the back end Oct 13 14:46:49 ~emulate atlanta Oct 13 14:46:58 and i'm too lazy to reinstall the sdk at the moment on the win7 machine Oct 13 14:47:01 acydlord: ahh. Oct 13 14:47:10 egaudet, Happy Birthday! Oct 13 14:48:03 acydlord did you see the preware self-loader? Oct 13 14:48:12 no need for webos-quick install? Oct 13 14:48:14 Rick_work: yeah.. Iforgot about that Oct 13 14:48:27 there is a jar self loader and exe written in .net Oct 13 14:48:38 i did not see the preware self loader Oct 13 14:48:41 nodnod Oct 13 14:48:44 works great Oct 13 14:48:53 the wosqi is broken, but is easily fixed Oct 13 14:48:58 its in the git.webos-internals.org repo Oct 13 14:49:01 and i do need webosqi for one thing Oct 13 14:49:01 ^link Oct 13 14:49:13 to get that darned enhanced spellcheck off my phone Oct 13 14:49:22 cause its more trouble than good for me Oct 13 14:59:33 i dont know why ive never thought about this before, but with the uptime of my phone i should run irssi in screen, and keep it logged into idlerpg Oct 13 15:17:33 "The Men Who Stare At Goats" looks hilarious Oct 13 15:55:43 PuffTheMagic: ping-pong-table Oct 13 15:57:52 ? Oct 13 16:04:43 PuffTheMagic: how do I fix the choppy scrolling of my center-wheel on my mouse in Gnome? Oct 13 16:05:13 It's random, but mostly its extremely choppy and scrolls way too fast if I go quick. :) Oct 13 16:05:15 fix your display drivers Oct 13 16:05:20 its not a mouse issue Oct 13 16:05:40 radeon or nvidia? Oct 13 16:14:56 thanks Oct 13 16:15:08 dBsooner-work, I'm pretty sure GNU patch does not handle binary patching Oct 13 16:15:17 pretty sure it does Oct 13 16:15:20 err Oct 13 16:15:23 actually no Oct 13 16:15:24 well Oct 13 16:15:29 i am thiniing of git Oct 13 16:15:38 and it just stores a new copy Oct 13 16:15:40 no "diff" Oct 13 16:16:06 i used to know the name a binary patch tool Oct 13 16:16:12 yea a bsdiff binary tool would be better to use Oct 13 16:16:25 like I believe clipcarl uses for the iphone spoof binary patch Oct 13 16:17:01 bsdiff, bspatch Oct 13 16:17:18 egaudet: there is another way Oct 13 16:17:31 hexdump the binaries then diff them :D Oct 13 16:17:59 xdelta was the app i was thinking of Oct 13 16:18:54 http://code.google.com/p/xdelta/ Oct 13 16:19:38 xdelta even has C/C++ api/lib Oct 13 16:19:48 so we can use it in tools we make Oct 13 16:20:02 interesting Oct 13 16:20:27 bsdiff ships on the phone and produces diff files a fraction of the size of xdelta Oct 13 16:20:40 more interesting Oct 13 16:22:04 but bsdiff is a mem hog Oct 13 16:25:59 is there a tab key or patch for 'tabbing'? Oct 13 16:28:33 tabbing as in going from one input box to the next? Oct 13 16:30:16 can someone just respond so I know this irc web client is working? Oct 13 16:31:07 no Oct 13 16:31:36 thanks puff, I bet you wish you could tab. Oct 13 16:32:58 you should make an app called 'so you think you can tab' as a palm pre spinoff of 'so you think you can dance' Oct 13 16:34:07 egaudet: ping Oct 13 16:34:50 PuffTheMagic: i have radeon Oct 13 16:34:58 dBsooner-work, pong Oct 13 16:34:59 PuffTheMagic: pretty much all ati chipset Oct 13 16:35:16 egaudet: i have a bsdiff patch. I just want to make sure we keep it ERP compat Oct 13 16:36:07 iphone spoof? Oct 13 16:36:09 s/ERP/EPR/ Oct 13 16:36:09 dBsooner-work meant: egaudet: i have a bsdiff patch. I just want to make sure we keep it EPR compat Oct 13 16:36:11 egaudet: yes Oct 13 16:36:20 we have to design binary patches into autopatch technology Oct 13 16:36:25 something tells me my web client isn't displaying all the messages... Oct 13 16:36:45 "autopatch technology" sounds like it so much more than it is :P Oct 13 16:36:55 egaudet: want the tarball of the shellscript and patch? Oct 13 16:36:59 no Oct 13 16:37:01 dBsooner-work: r?00 ? Oct 13 16:37:12 is there an irc client app? Oct 13 16:37:28 PreMan_road: if there was, it would be in preware Oct 13 16:37:44 I've briefly looked at that patch previously Oct 13 16:38:09 PuffTheMagic: i'll hav eto look when I get home Oct 13 16:38:18 dBsooner-work: do you use kms? Oct 13 16:38:20 I want to say r500 or 600.. but I don't think that's right Oct 13 16:38:27 should we create a separate postinst/prerm for binary patching Oct 13 16:38:27 I should look deeper into preare then, didn't see any rwcently updated Oct 13 16:38:38 will we ever want a package that combines text + binary patches Oct 13 16:38:40 dBsooner-work: if your lappy is new is prob >=r500 Oct 13 16:38:46 what about multi .patch file support in one package Oct 13 16:38:59 egaudet: i bet we would one day want both Oct 13 16:39:01 egaudet: thats all possible already Oct 13 16:39:21 everything is "possible" Oct 13 16:39:32 it just has to be designed into the existing patch stuff Oct 13 16:39:47 right now the only thing patch as ipk supports is text patching with a single .patch file Oct 13 16:39:54 per pacakge Oct 13 16:40:11 so why not just run shell script as post inst? Oct 13 16:40:25 dBsooner-work, cuz that goes against the entire design and point of autopatch Oct 13 16:40:44 * dBsooner-work is all about lazy. Oct 13 16:41:11 egaudet: its maybe anti-autopatch biut its 100% compat with ipkg and preware Oct 13 16:41:14 well I guess that's my project for tonight Oct 13 16:41:17 u can do anything you feel like in postinst Oct 13 16:41:27 getting bsdiff compat autopatch Oct 13 16:41:41 PuffTheMagic, yea well autopatch was created for a reason. Oct 13 16:42:05 dBsooner-work: i wouldnt get ballz deep into bsdiff before we can show its the right options for this Oct 13 16:42:25 i figured bsdiff is the best binary patching method Oct 13 16:43:04 dBsooner-work: for a memory limited device like the pre i dont think smaller output files makes it better than xdelta, since bsdiff is such a mem hog Oct 13 16:43:22 running that with luna running and what not could cause oom issues Oct 13 16:43:48 but you're not going to leave it running.. it's just going to patch and exit Oct 13 16:43:52 think we need some benchmarks and stress tests Oct 13 16:44:05 dBsooner-work: yeah but "while" its running it will suck up shit loads of mem Oct 13 16:44:13 and itmight crash stuff Oct 13 16:45:36 im not saying 1 is better than the other officialy, i just dont know Oct 13 16:45:42 it hink we should prove one is better Oct 13 16:45:45 how much mem does bspatch take Oct 13 16:46:11 i can't imagine it hogging memory when it doesan't need to. when it's running a small patch on a small binary, it shouldn't steal too much. Oct 13 16:46:24 Plus that's the beauty of mem caching and swap partitions Oct 13 16:46:27 it says right on the bspatch website that its a mem hog Oct 13 16:46:42 smaller files produced by bsdiff does not mea Oct 13 16:46:44 oops Oct 13 16:46:48 bsdiff is quite memory-hungry. It requires max(17*n,9*n+m)+O(1) bytes of memory, where n is the size of the old file and m is the size of the new file. bspatch requires n+m+O(1) bytes. Oct 13 16:46:56 that should be in quotes Oct 13 16:46:58 n+m+O(1) Oct 13 16:47:33 oh i was looking at bsdiff Oct 13 16:48:21 well some sample runs and t-tests will tell us for sure :) Oct 13 16:49:54 i think I am gonna mod the webos doctor so that the size of each lvm volume can be choosen manually Oct 13 16:50:12 blah, just limit patch size, orig file size and then force luna restart Oct 13 16:50:41 dBsooner-work, how did you make 4x4 v3 out of curiosity (in build.git) Oct 13 16:50:55 created a new makefile Oct 13 16:51:12 y? Oct 13 16:51:15 how many damn 4x4 patches are needed Oct 13 16:51:19 wondering if you used MAKE_PATCH Oct 13 16:51:25 nah Oct 13 16:51:28 I will next time Oct 13 16:51:35 i wasn't in my linux shell at the time Oct 13 16:51:42 didn't know if I had mentioned pushing that in when I made it or not Oct 13 16:52:01 this new 4x4 is pretty damn awesome Oct 13 16:52:10 PuffTheMagic, the v3 makes the icons big Oct 13 16:52:27 screenshot? Oct 13 16:52:30 we didn't need v1 and v2 but v3 is good Oct 13 16:52:38 its in the ipk feed Oct 13 16:52:46 or go to my contrib's on the wiki Oct 13 16:52:53 f'that Oct 13 16:52:55 I mean we didn't need 2 separate ones for v1/v2, but definitely need separate one for v3 vs. smaller icons Oct 13 16:52:56 i have 3 screenshots in my contribs Oct 13 16:53:01 ;) Oct 13 16:53:02 hey guys i just installed the sdk, virtualbox etc on Vista however everytime i plug in my device it keeps talking about not being able to find the novacom linux drivers whatever that is. Why does it not just recognize it as a drive? Oct 13 16:53:18 doesn't matter what option i hit even Just Charge it still complains saying it cannot find the drivers Oct 13 16:53:27 is there something special I need to do to make it stop? Oct 13 16:53:34 #webos = SDK chat. :D Oct 13 16:53:36 http://forums.precentral.net/webos-patches/209069-alternative-4x4-launcher-larger-icons-text.html Oct 13 16:53:42 ok Oct 13 16:54:39 egaudet: i agree with the v1/v2 not needing being seperate, but I can't delete/overwrite because of compatibility Oct 13 16:54:50 s/compatibility/backwards compatibility/ Oct 13 16:54:51 dBsooner-work meant: egaudet: i agree with the v1/v2 not needing being seperate, but I can't delete/overwrite because of backwards compatibility Oct 13 16:55:20 awesome Oct 13 16:55:29 precentral sites is broke Oct 13 16:55:31 when i log in Oct 13 16:55:36 it says successfull Oct 13 16:55:43 then redirects me to the login page again Oct 13 16:55:56 guess i wont see any screenshots Oct 13 16:58:55 Puff I assume you have preware Oct 13 16:59:03 you can see screenshots on your pre Oct 13 17:09:47 egaudet: Just checked out the 4x4 v3...I guess I actually perfer the smaller icons. Mostly because of the smaller text. A version with the large icons and small text might be interesting if its possible (I've never dug into how this patch works, so I don't know if that's possible or not). Oct 13 17:13:14 Wiz1999: ++ Oct 13 17:13:59 FYI, I had nothing to do with that patch. dBsooner-work packaged it up, onlinespending posted the changes Oct 13 17:14:42 Ah... Oct 13 17:15:07 dBsooner-work: See above comment...think its possible to have the large icons and small text? Oct 13 17:15:07 although Puff is responsible for v2 :P Oct 13 17:15:21 what Oct 13 17:15:24 i did v1 Oct 13 17:15:27 jason did v2 Oct 13 17:15:30 I'd guess it's possible, I've never actually really looked at what those launcher changes were Oct 13 17:15:33 PuffTheMagic, you did v2 Oct 13 17:15:38 unless shit got renamed Oct 13 17:15:50 yea Oct 13 17:15:56 when i submitted my patch there were no v* Oct 13 17:16:01 I know Oct 13 17:16:02 I'm using v2...it has word wrapping Oct 13 17:16:04 there was 1 4x4 Oct 13 17:16:09 yea Oct 13 17:16:26 we changed it to v1, v2, etc... to account more multiple preferential versions Oct 13 17:16:57 so why did v1 get changed to v2? Oct 13 17:17:06 it didn't Oct 13 17:17:14 The versioning is a good thing. It was confusing before the change to the webos-internals patch feed. Oct 13 17:17:22 well i don't know, there may have been a brief period where it was v1 Oct 13 17:17:35 but that was before we started with consistent naming, and yours got v2 because it was better than v1 Oct 13 17:18:12 :) Oct 13 17:18:18 lol Oct 13 17:21:23 i was poking around the file system and noticed a directory, which am I unware of its need, or how it got there, and if it is ok to wipe it out with everything sitting below it....the path is /var/opt/libexec/git-core, and it contains 83MB of files, wondeirng if this could be a culprit in my out of space messages.... Oct 13 17:22:43 mike_pre do you did you do the old style "quilt" patches ??? Oct 13 17:24:15 yes, I sure di back in the day.... Oct 13 17:24:27 Isn't that the optware as ipkg (from preware) Oct 13 17:24:35 and isn't /var/opt bind mounted to /opt Oct 13 17:25:22 all those opposed to posting yet ANOTHER 4x4 version, say Aye. Oct 13 17:25:24 AYE. Oct 13 17:25:36 Naye Oct 13 17:25:41 doh! Oct 13 17:25:50 If it passes, egaudet has to do it. Oct 13 17:25:58 ha Oct 13 17:26:06 that change your vote? Oct 13 17:26:16 nope Oct 13 17:26:18 :P Oct 13 17:26:20 But anyway.. font size is actually one line Oct 13 17:26:23 but I might take a long time to do it Oct 13 17:26:29 it's 13pt in the v4 Oct 13 17:26:31 err 3 Oct 13 17:26:38 the screenshots make previewing the app launcher patches pretty sweet Oct 13 17:26:44 shows you exactly what it's going to look like Oct 13 17:26:48 basically Oct 13 17:27:10 the hard part is getting screenshots without other patches in them Oct 13 17:27:20 not hard Oct 13 17:27:21 like the ones of v3 have the add-date-no-year Oct 13 17:27:28 aye.. not hard, but annoying Oct 13 17:27:28 just time consuming :P Oct 13 17:27:33 and tedious yes Oct 13 17:28:55 and dBsooner-work if you git your userland, then run EPR, then install 1 patch, screenshot, git checkout Oct 13 17:29:12 it might go faster, but still luna restart hurts. Oct 13 17:30:07 it's the luna restart Oct 13 17:31:05 landscape pdf needs fixing Oct 13 17:31:31 stop with these damn patches and start duck punching! Oct 13 17:33:31 The problem with patching or duck punching or anything, is that the amount of people that modify things in the code compared to the people who can turn that into a patch, or package, or duck punch etc... Oct 13 17:33:50 s/is that/is/ Oct 13 17:33:50 egaudet meant: The problem with patching or duck punching or anything, is the amount of people that modify things in the code compared to the people who can turn that into a patch, or package, or duck punch etc... Oct 13 17:34:29 not to mention many patches are tiny changes, or uncomments Oct 13 17:35:01 Actually...that's a good point...I can modify the code, but I have no idea how to turn it into a patch that can be used from Preware...is there a guide for that? Oct 13 17:36:48 There's a few ways to create a patch Oct 13 17:38:13 the wiki suggests quilt on the pre, you can use diff program (-uNrp) on two directory trees (one stock, one modified), you can use source control Oct 13 17:38:53 the bottom line is you need the starting point and ending point, starting with stock files and ending with modified files Oct 13 17:39:44 hmmm...I don't really have experience with quilt or diff. I've used diff once I think :) Oct 13 17:41:11 in the simplest case for modifying one file, you could copy the original to .orig, modify the file do a diff -uNrp /path/to/file /path/to/orig > my.patch Oct 13 17:41:43 i checked and all the files in /var/opt/libexec/git-core directory are from 8/9, is it save to assume now with Preware patching ability that I can wipe out this directory and reclaim my 84MB on /var/opt? Oct 13 17:42:07 and i messed up the order of /path/to/orig and /path/to/file Oct 13 17:43:40 i just decided that someone should make a patch, so that if someone sends you an address, you can send it to sprint navigation! Oct 13 17:43:45 Using windows, so I guess I would need a good version of diff for windows... Oct 13 17:43:46 that would be beneficial! Oct 13 17:44:35 \im back Oct 13 17:45:02 Wiz1999: install virtualbox and ubuntu Oct 13 17:45:21 Wiz1999, not familliar with windows diff options. You should be able to find a decent diff program for windows though, or use source control, or generate patch on the pre/emulator, or virtualize linux distro as atl said etc... Oct 13 17:45:58 Make sure you ignore trailing whitespace because windows/dos style CR into the patch won't work Oct 13 17:46:18 Used to have a virtualized Linux install...suppose it would be nice to have one again... Oct 13 17:46:51 So once you have the patch file, how are you packing it so it can be placed into the patches feed and used from Preware? Oct 13 17:47:05 s/packing/packaging Oct 13 17:49:46 we give it to dBsooner-work and he throws it into the build repository so the autobuilder will package it up Oct 13 17:49:55 :P Oct 13 17:51:04 Ah. Oct 13 17:52:46 The problem with patching or duck punching or anything, is that the amount of people that modify things in the code compared to the people who can turn that into a patch, or package, or duck punch etc... Oct 13 17:52:46 s/is that/is/ Oct 13 17:52:55 egaudet: that sentence is not complete Oct 13 17:53:04 idk what you are saying there Oct 13 17:54:14 it is complete Oct 13 17:54:44 in my mind Oct 13 17:55:11 the problem is there are a lot more people that can modify some files and do things that a lot of people want, than there are people capable of turning that into a patch, package, duck punch or anything Oct 13 17:57:15 so? Oct 13 17:57:53 using that logic we shouldnt bother with patches Oct 13 17:58:04 so I'm not and I'm sure dBsooner-work does not want to be keeping up with all the mods and turning them into duck punches Oct 13 17:58:57 what about css patching? Oct 13 17:59:00 no.... just keep wasting time refactoring them each time webos version is bumped Oct 13 17:59:18 you have to refactor with duck punching too Oct 13 17:59:33 unless you want to use old, outdated methods Oct 13 18:00:11 new methods arent as common as changes within existing methods Oct 13 18:00:15 I don't think duck punching really is going to solve anything Oct 13 18:00:18 the latter of which is what breaks patches Oct 13 18:00:34 duck punching overwrites the entire existing method Oct 13 18:00:45 so if they change the method, you still overwrite with your version of a modified OLD method Oct 13 18:00:54 which could break the rest of the js or app, or whatever Oct 13 18:01:01 still should be easier to maintain than patches Oct 13 18:01:05 how? Oct 13 18:01:19 you have to do the exact same work, re-do the change for the new method Oct 13 18:01:29 and either copy out the entire new method, or regen a patch Oct 13 18:01:59 the patch actually has better chance of staying compatible Oct 13 18:02:02 cut-n-paste is way easier than having to use git/quilt to create a diff Oct 13 18:02:13 if something at the beginning of the method changes, but the patch touches the end of the method, the patch remains compatible Oct 13 18:02:22 but duck punching would break Oct 13 18:02:37 yeah but to udpate the duck punch you just need to cut n paste the updated code Oct 13 18:02:41 then you are dont Oct 13 18:02:43 done Oct 13 18:02:47 and then say there's a js with 5 methods, any my patch is to add some one line thing to each method Oct 13 18:02:51 no need to do the extra step of making a diff Oct 13 18:03:02 then the duck punch has to distribute the the entire js file basically Oct 13 18:03:22 and still duck punching will be LESS compatible with newer webos versions Oct 13 18:03:44 it's one step down from overwriting entire files Oct 13 18:03:49 wont know till you try it Oct 13 18:03:58 that's not true Oct 13 18:04:28 patching requires the least amount of context of all the options, thus it is going to be more compatible with webos version changes Oct 13 18:04:56 overwriting methods (duck punching) means any change to a duck punched method requires new version Oct 13 18:05:06 overwriting files means any change to the file at all requires new version Oct 13 18:05:18 what? Oct 13 18:05:21 patching means any change to the specific lines/context being touched needs new version Oct 13 18:05:32 what what? Oct 13 18:06:08 i though you didnt have to touch existing files when duck punching.... so even if the orig file was updated the old duck punch will work unless there was an api change Oct 13 18:06:19 so the old duck punch wont include new changes Oct 13 18:06:22 but it should still work Oct 13 18:07:01 still work without new changes is not working IMO Oct 13 18:07:27 I'd much rather a patch fail to apply, then a duck punch succeed and change functionality in potentially hard to debug ways Oct 13 18:07:48 fine.... have fun maintaining these patches forever Oct 13 18:07:51 if duck punching is what I think it is, which is overwriting entire method Oct 13 18:08:05 Each patch has its own maintainer Oct 13 18:08:36 and duck punching will make maintaining that much more difficult, again one step down from file overwriting Oct 13 18:09:35 We want palm changes from webos updates, we don't want to get into overwriting/undoing changes and then having all these subtle issues that are hard to figure out Oct 13 18:10:40 I just don't see what duck punching will help Oct 13 18:13:08 this is off topic but is there anyone who can direct me to a way of turning ps2 into a linux box Oct 13 18:22:37 Oct 13 18:26:05 * dBsooner-work is against duck punching. Oct 13 18:26:17 Don't ask me to explain it. I jus tam. Oct 13 18:26:26 s/jus tam/just am/ Oct 13 18:26:26 dBsooner-work meant: Don't ask me to explain it. I just am. Oct 13 18:26:50 Besides, AutoPatch with patching is working just fine as it is, why "fix something that isn't broke"? Oct 13 18:27:49 However, I want the ability to patch a binary. Oct 13 18:27:55 And I would like that ability tonight. Oct 13 18:28:24 no need to rush that Oct 13 18:28:39 it's a big enough thing to put effort into the design for Oct 13 18:29:29 whether we need a separate postinst/prerm for binary patching, or added to the existing stuff, it needs a lot of discussion/thought before going in Oct 13 18:29:48 well then I might just push out a "patch" that just runs bsdiff in the postinst/prerm for now. Cuz I would like to have that iphone useragent patch out as soon as possible. That's one that WOSQI can do that WebOS-Patches cannot. Oct 13 18:30:03 so what Oct 13 18:30:09 and I like it Oct 13 18:30:10 :D Oct 13 18:30:19 then use QI or manually run the script Oct 13 18:30:26 and AM is all over my case about getting it out Oct 13 18:30:44 no need to force a package outside of autopatch scope just to get it out now now now Oct 13 18:31:08 AM doesn't get input into the design/timeframe Oct 13 18:31:12 how does the infobot command go for trying to find when someone was last here? Oct 13 18:31:26 isn't VKB outisde autopatch scope technically? Oct 13 18:31:37 ~last? Oct 13 18:31:38 methinks last is easier ;) Oct 13 18:31:38 ~saeen? Oct 13 18:31:54 dBsooner-work, no VKB is in autopatch Oct 13 18:31:57 ~last reality9110 Oct 13 18:32:02 hmm Oct 13 18:32:12 ~seen reality9110 Oct 13 18:32:16 i haven't seen 'reality9110', sugardave Oct 13 18:32:17 arg, I suck Oct 13 18:32:18 it was the first patch packaged way before autopatch Oct 13 18:32:21 oh, there it is Oct 13 18:32:32 ahh Oct 13 18:34:05 just hypothetically speaking?:L Oct 13 18:34:12 ? Oct 13 18:34:13 jack87: http://playstation2-linux.com/ Oct 13 18:34:16 s/?:L/: Oct 13 18:34:29 IF we used say, bsdiff... Oct 13 18:34:43 you use bsdiff to generate the binary patch Oct 13 18:35:18 I think just adding a "BSDIFF = " line to the Makefile to fire a s different build target including the BSDIFF functions instead of the GNU patch functions would work. Oct 13 18:35:38 if BSDIFF = null, then it fires standard gnu patch build Oct 13 18:35:43 bspatch Oct 13 18:35:47 yeah Oct 13 18:35:58 i use those loosely, sorry. Oct 13 18:35:59 it needs to make its way into the postinst/prerm script not the makefile Oct 13 18:36:08 right Oct 13 18:36:26 in your included .mk's it checks for that value being set Oct 13 18:37:30 ... Oct 13 18:37:37 thank you sugardave Oct 13 18:37:50 np, good luck Oct 13 18:37:50 IF BSPATCH = blah.bsdiff, spit out this prerm/postinst Oct 13 18:38:13 IF BSPATCH = null AND PATCH = blah.patch, spit out this postinst/prerm Oct 13 18:38:29 why would you want to duplicate the postinst/prerm scripts Oct 13 18:38:52 sigh Oct 13 18:38:54 you don't Oct 13 18:39:03 just portions of it Oct 13 18:39:16 the makefile doesn't spit it out Oct 13 18:39:39 oh, it includes it Oct 13 18:39:43 hang on.. le tme go look Oct 13 18:39:51 to see if I can make sense of what I am tryting to say Oct 13 18:39:52 we could have a sed to change something in it Oct 13 18:40:20 like is being done with the APP_DIR variable Oct 13 18:42:05 what are the bspatch limitations? Oct 13 18:42:12 are there dry-run options? Oct 13 18:42:34 can 2 different bspatches be done on the same binary file like text files? Oct 13 18:42:43 how are bspatches reverted Oct 13 18:43:15 do we need to create a bspatch binary package like we do for GNU patch Oct 13 18:45:50 ok, got it Oct 13 18:46:43 the postinst/prerm is easy Oct 13 18:48:16 is anyone running karmic koala and getting webos-quickinstall to work? Oct 13 18:48:27 we just wrap the GNU PATCH ONLY parts inside an IF [PATCH=1] block Oct 13 18:48:27 it doesn't find my pre.. Oct 13 18:48:49 (the pre _will_ attach as a usb drive just dandy) Oct 13 18:49:06 then wrap the BSPATCH ONLY parts inside an IF [BSPATCH=1] block Oct 13 18:49:35 jtee: novaterm doesnt work? Oct 13 18:49:40 then the COMMON stuff can be outside thosed blocks to be run in both styles prerm/postinst Oct 13 18:49:47 yea that's the easy stuff Oct 13 18:50:00 jt@jt-laptop:~/Desktop$ novaterm Oct 13 18:50:00 failed to connect to server Oct 13 18:50:00 jt@jt-laptop:~/Desktop$ Oct 13 18:50:10 it's easy to have if [] then bspatch else patch.. Oct 13 18:50:14 then in the common.mk you juse sed replace BSPATCH=0 with BSPATCH=1 Oct 13 18:50:17 but what about all my questions ^^ Oct 13 18:50:49 and set BSPATCH=0 by default in prerm/postinst Oct 13 18:50:54 and to the above, I am looking. Oct 13 18:52:29 egaudet: there would be no reason to dry-run Oct 13 18:53:08 cp ./ ; bspatch Oct 13 18:53:28 your cp is invalid Oct 13 18:53:31 IF { mv } else {exit 0} Oct 13 18:54:00 dBsooner-work: any advancements on that iphone patch Oct 13 18:54:25 so bspatch takes the original file, creates the new file Oct 13 18:54:32 and doesn't touch the orig file Oct 13 18:55:53 can bspatch fail? Oct 13 18:56:16 can bspatch reverse? Oct 13 19:00:02 do we even want to support binary patching in autopatch Oct 13 19:00:32 can 2 separate binary patches (generated against the same stock binary file) be applied one after the other? Oct 13 19:01:07 what binary patches exist currently aside from iphone poof Oct 13 19:01:12 i would assume no Oct 13 19:01:15 s/poof/spoof Oct 13 19:01:30 there was only one other one i knew of a while back Oct 13 19:01:40 which was the tethering changes Oct 13 19:01:43 to a .so file Oct 13 19:02:01 but i dont think anyone does deep to change stuff like that Oct 13 19:18:34 dBsooner-work, I'm leaning toward keeping it out of autopatch and just package spoof up however you want Oct 13 19:24:39 egaudet: I go with you there Oct 13 19:24:47 egaudet: I can't imagine another binary patch Oct 13 19:24:59 egaudet: at least there hasn't been another one to date. Oct 13 19:25:28 egaudet: So I would need to create a new postinst/prerm? Oct 13 19:25:33 i'd keep it out of patches feed too Oct 13 19:25:42 DOh! Oct 13 19:25:48 mmk Oct 13 19:26:11 so can I at least put it in the autopatch repo? or shoudl I make a new repo on gitorious? Oct 13 19:26:50 you can probably use the script that they have with it as the postinst, add some md5sum checking maybe, have athe prerm recover the orig Oct 13 19:27:06 But I mean maybe it could go in autopatch Oct 13 19:27:19 maybe just not in a generic sense Oct 13 19:27:52 he already has md5 checking Oct 13 19:28:27 another point: To UNDO: I could RECOVER the original file.. or create a bsdiff of the PATCHED to orginal Oct 13 19:28:40 and use bspatch to "patch the patched back to original" Oct 13 19:29:19 bsdiff is terrible memory Oct 13 19:29:27 i don't think you should run bsdiff on the pre Oct 13 19:29:51 that's how the patch gets installed Oct 13 19:30:19 gets installed with bspatch Oct 13 19:30:19 i know Oct 13 19:30:19 not bsdiff Oct 13 19:30:19 i never said run bsdiff on the pre Oct 13 19:30:24 you just said create a bsdiff of patched to orig Oct 13 19:30:27 i can run bsdiff on my linux shell Oct 13 19:30:31 yes. Oct 13 19:30:35 on laptop Oct 13 19:30:40 but the only way that makes sense is if you do itdynamically on the pre Oct 13 19:30:48 why? Oct 13 19:30:52 it doesn't make sense to do that when you know your end result Oct 13 19:31:24 have two bspatch files.. make-iphone.bspatch and make-pre.bspatch Oct 13 19:31:34 make-pre makes no sense Oct 13 19:31:41 bspatch the make-iphone on postinst Oct 13 19:31:46 if you backup the orig Oct 13 19:31:47 bspatch the make-pre on the prerm Oct 13 19:31:57 I am just trying to avoid OVERWRITING Oct 13 19:32:04 you have to overwrite Oct 13 19:32:23 bspatch creates a new file and you have to overwrite the original with it Oct 13 19:33:12 the only reason NOT to overwrite is when multiple changes can be made by separate packages Oct 13 19:33:14 well you have to overwrite the "original" as it stands Oct 13 19:33:19 egaudet: right Oct 13 19:33:30 egaudet: just trying to stay 99% compatible Oct 13 19:33:32 you want to generate a static bsdiff from patched to STOCK pre file Oct 13 19:33:47 that will not do any better than overwriting stock backup Oct 13 19:33:53 99% compatible with what? Oct 13 19:33:53 egaudet: but your right.. just copying the orig back over the patched is much easier Oct 13 19:34:00 you got a point Oct 13 19:34:01 my fault Oct 13 19:34:05 I stand corrected. COntinue. Oct 13 19:34:56 so you can stay in autopatch too if you want Oct 13 19:35:05 make the postinst follow the current autopatch standards Oct 13 19:35:13 backup file named .webosinternals.orig Oct 13 19:35:15 but it won't get removed by epr will it? Oct 13 19:35:30 filename in /var/usr/lib/.webosinternals.patches/backups Oct 13 19:35:33 k Oct 13 19:35:41 pacakge name in /var/usr/lib/.webosinternals.patches/pacakges Oct 13 19:35:47 pacakge name in /var/usr/lib/.webosinternals.patches/packages * Oct 13 19:35:51 k Oct 13 19:35:56 and then EPR will remove it Oct 13 19:35:58 k Oct 13 19:36:08 easy enogh Oct 13 19:36:14 s/enogh/enough/ Oct 13 19:36:14 dBsooner-work meant: easy enough Oct 13 19:36:19 I'll do it when I get home. Oct 13 19:36:41 make sure you do it just like the existing postinst/prerm though Oct 13 19:37:02 right, but with different postinst/prerm Oct 13 19:37:06 yea Oct 13 19:37:27 im going to make a new file in the same directory on build.git/autopatch Oct 13 19:37:38 postinst-bspatch / prerm-bspatch Oct 13 19:37:54 and during the cp in Make, i'll just cp them as postinst / prerm Oct 13 19:38:00 I probably won't be able to do anything today, I'm getting sick, I'm going to lay down after work Oct 13 19:38:16 That's cool, I am sure rwhitby could help me if I get stuck Oct 13 19:38:19 no Oct 13 19:38:23 lol Oct 13 19:38:28 then he won't help me if I get stuck Oct 13 19:38:31 not to that last comment lol Oct 13 19:38:38 oh Oct 13 19:38:45 why can't I do that? Oct 13 19:38:55 follow like the EPR, just have postinst/prerm for the spoof in there Oct 13 19:39:08 ok Oct 13 19:39:17 don't create a generic one at the same level as the generic autopatch ones Oct 13 19:39:54 ahh I see Oct 13 19:40:03 I gotta get a new keyboard after work, I'll check the computer from time to time Oct 13 19:40:39 build.git/autopatch/browser-iphone-useragent/Makefile ./postinst ./prerm Oct 13 19:40:55 meaning those two are in the same dir as the Makefile Oct 13 19:41:01 ok yea Oct 13 19:41:24 and follow the standards set in the other's postinst prerm scripts Oct 13 19:42:26 yea, for the backup file name and editting the backups and packages files on install/remove Oct 13 19:42:56 if you want EPR to see it Oct 13 19:43:29 huh? Oct 13 19:43:36 That was a run-on sentance. Oct 13 19:45:24 but i figured it out Oct 13 19:51:15 it was not a run-on Oct 13 19:59:06 morning folks. Oct 13 19:59:23 happy birthday, egaudet! (freakout can read!) Oct 13 19:59:25 bye folks! Oct 13 20:06:15 thanks freakout-away Oct 13 20:09:23 hi all Oct 13 20:16:49 morning Oct 13 20:18:27 anyone here try to use a crappy charger w/ their pre? Oct 13 20:18:42 I am currently, and it makes my touch screen go crazy Oct 13 20:18:42 charges Oct 13 20:18:50 but cant really use it while charging (want to test w/ touchstone when I get home) Oct 13 20:21:35 I really don't recommend using a charger that isn't rated for the same voltage Oct 13 20:23:31 spotter, define 'crappy' Oct 13 20:24:03 i have used chargers that are rated from 500mA to 1000mA with good success with my pre Oct 13 20:24:11 chrisa: what is the correct voltage? i'm about to go shopping myself, would rather not have to pay to import the proper Palm-branded international charger Oct 13 20:24:18 jtee, $2 on ebay Oct 13 20:24:33 what are the Vdc and mA specs? Oct 13 20:25:10 of course for $2, the DC out could be far from DC ;-) Oct 13 20:26:25 egaudet: Oct 13 20:26:42 chrisa only speaks when its the truth Oct 13 20:27:03 egaudet: http://webosinternals.pastebin.com/m4d3fbfe Oct 13 20:27:07 rwhitby: morning Oct 13 20:27:29 rwhitby: check the above pastebin, it's for a bspatch postinst Oct 13 20:27:57 APP_DIR and PATCH_NAME get sed replaced during build Oct 13 20:28:02 dBsooner-work: please don't release anything with binary patching until we spend 24 hours at least thinking about the security implications. Oct 13 20:28:17 :( Oct 13 20:28:37 * dBsooner-work goes back to work then. Can't believe I spent 30 mins writing that postinst. Oct 13 20:29:18 i md5sum check everything before and after the patch Oct 13 20:29:33 if anything fails md5sum it dumps out failure and backs out Oct 13 20:31:18 dBsooner-work: I doubt the 30 minutes will be wasted, but we don't rush new major feature without addressing the security aspect first. Oct 13 20:31:56 rwhitby: aye.. egaudet and I had been talking about it all morning and really couldn't find anything wrong with it. As this is going to be our only binary patch Oct 13 20:32:16 that we can find at least. We decided to not making binary patching an AutoPatch standard at this time. Oct 13 20:32:59 We decided to just do this one iphone poof patch as a one time deal, using the AutoPatch standard postinst/prerm scripts Oct 13 20:35:05 If you think it's a security risk to patch libWebKitLuna.so changing the useragent string, then by all means, I wouldn't do it. Oct 13 20:35:36 dBsooner-work it's not that. Oct 13 20:35:55 We sort of have a policy of setting on new ideas for a day just to think if we might have overlooked something Oct 13 20:35:56 Then why didn't you stop me earlier Rick_work? :D Oct 13 20:36:09 not the patch spoof but the IDEA of binary patching Oct 13 20:36:28 Again, we talked about it and decided at the time its not worth developing an entire binary patching standard. Oct 13 20:36:34 I didn't stop you because we would need to see HOW it would work in order to htink it through Oct 13 20:36:36 As there is NO OTHER binary patch available to date. Oct 13 20:36:40 nodnod Oct 13 20:37:04 you have a problem with, now that you've had that discussion, sleeping on it before you go live? Oct 13 20:37:06 So why develop a standard for something that isn't even needed? Oct 13 20:37:21 makes perfect sense Oct 13 20:37:32 That's the point I was trying to make. Oct 13 20:37:33 paid app download cancelled please take a look Oct 13 20:37:35 http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/207918-i-keep-getting-errors-app-catalog.html#post1973420 Oct 13 20:37:50 Joesmith: we don't do app catalog issues. ;) That's palm. Oct 13 20:37:51 but you are de-facto establishing a standard. "Binary patches are handled in postinst as special cases" Oct 13 20:38:20 Aye. No problem there. I don't mind sleeping on it. Oct 13 20:38:34 But it all starts with you all reading my postinst script and seeing how to works and seeing if I made any mistakes in it. Oct 13 20:38:54 well dbsooner I need the wisdom of smarter people than palm bc they cant/wont help Oct 13 20:39:03 dBsooner-work: right, and then we play with it, discuss, and work out what to do with it. Oct 13 20:39:17 fine by me Oct 13 20:39:24 I just wanted you all to look at it Oct 13 20:39:38 I had no intentions on building/releasing it within the next couple hours anyway. Oct 13 20:39:56 It's not even in a file form yet.. all I have is that pastebin and my notepad here Oct 13 20:40:24 What are you working on dbsooner? Oct 13 20:40:52 Joesmith: sounds like Palm servers think you are trying to steal it Oct 13 20:41:04 Joesmith: like they are caching your device id info Oct 13 20:41:31 sooo what do I do? Oct 13 20:41:41 thansk for looking Oct 13 20:42:07 dBsooner-work, autopatch postinst needs a change, rm -rf $PATCH_CONTROL_DIR needs to be rm -f Oct 13 20:42:18 no? Oct 13 20:42:34 the main postinst? Oct 13 20:42:54 rm -f will not work Oct 13 20:42:56 yea maybe Oct 13 20:43:00 you have to rm -rf Oct 13 20:43:07 if ! -d Oct 13 20:43:12 if it's not a directory I have rm -rf Oct 13 20:43:29 if its not a ditectory then rm -f Oct 13 20:43:38 why both with a test Oct 13 20:43:40 it maybe should be rm -f, what if someone sym linked that to another directory would rm -rf remove that linked dir Oct 13 20:43:40 just use -rf Oct 13 20:44:04 PuffTheMagic, i dont want to rm it unless it's something other than a dir Oct 13 20:44:28 argh I am really pissed of at plam right now! Oct 13 20:45:01 egaudet: then you should just rm -f it Oct 13 20:45:23 -r is recursive and is pointless if the target is a file Oct 13 20:45:38 i know i just said that Oct 13 20:45:39 and a symlink is treated as file Oct 13 20:45:59 its pointless but I was wondering if it was harmless Oct 13 20:46:08 should be harmless Oct 13 20:46:13 UNLESS Oct 13 20:46:24 $pATCH_CONTROL_DIR is a symlink to a dir Oct 13 20:46:37 then it would rm -rf $PATCH_CONTORL_DIR/ Oct 13 20:46:38 which is bad Oct 13 20:46:41 wow is there an echo? Oct 13 20:46:43 lol Oct 13 20:46:48 I was thinking it through Oct 13 20:46:50 sheesh Oct 13 20:46:56 hehe i'm messing with ya Oct 13 20:47:05 did you look at my postinst? Oct 13 20:47:16 since rwhitby stole my koolaide. Oct 13 20:47:40 s/stole my koolaide/popped my bubble/ Oct 13 20:47:40 dBsooner-work meant: since rwhitby popped my bubble. Oct 13 20:48:19 but i think rm -rf symlink doesn't follow the link anyway Oct 13 20:49:30 * dBsooner-work will man rf it later Oct 13 20:51:11 you symlinked a folder? Oct 13 21:09:26 wtf is this german crap in the us market place palm Oct 13 21:09:27 come on Oct 13 21:11:05 sampson what are you upset about now? Oct 13 21:11:17 look at the app catalog Oct 13 21:11:22 there's some app now in pure german Oct 13 21:11:24 ahhh Oct 13 21:11:25 that Oct 13 21:11:27 whatever happened to localization Oct 13 21:11:29 be calm Oct 13 21:11:43 I WILL NOT BE CALM Oct 13 21:11:43 the app catalog is undergoing some major restructuring even as we type Oct 13 21:11:46 ok, i lied Oct 13 21:11:49 and they are not taking it down. Oct 13 21:11:52 you work for them? Oct 13 21:11:58 so they're doing a tune up on a running engine Oct 13 21:12:07 and things "mess up" from time to time Oct 13 21:12:10 for a short period Oct 13 21:12:17 in a week, all willbe well. Oct 13 21:12:24 how do you know all this *rubs chin* Oct 13 21:12:38 sampson I do not work on them, but the webos-internals team is "well connected." Oct 13 21:12:44 oic Oct 13 21:12:51 ap mobile is pretty hot Oct 13 21:12:57 noads are the best ads Oct 13 21:13:40 so sampson just take a deep breath and remain calm, all will be well. Oct 13 21:14:42 at a minimum, the app catalog is dealing with three additional language groups AND dealing with multiple currencies AND dealing with new paid apps, and paid ap restrictions on a country bycountry basis AND some other things I'm notat liberty to discuss Oct 13 21:14:51 so, really, they're working on it Oct 13 21:16:05 Rick_work: Don't forget the unicorns... Oct 13 21:16:26 dBsooner-work: I thought a lot of sites that customize to iphone were using the webkit user-agent in general and not mobilesafari.. (google mobile stuff for instance acts the same on the pre as iphone) so do a lot of sites actually change much claiming mobilesafari? Oct 13 21:16:28 I just want them to clear out my submission queue so I can start again, dammit Oct 13 21:17:16 sugardave they did that to me by accident. Oct 13 21:17:24 have you talked with your minder? Oct 13 21:17:25 ouch Oct 13 21:17:39 yes, I sent her email yesterday, got a 'hang in there' response Oct 13 21:17:49 ahhh Oct 13 21:17:57 Judy VS??? Oct 13 21:18:00 yes Oct 13 21:18:00 or someone else? Oct 13 21:18:27 who's in the other corner? :P Oct 13 21:18:44 destinal: I honestly do not know the stance of mobile website programming in that respect. All I remember is spoofing the useragent to be iphone instead of whatever pre puts in the headers makes some sites format differently. I remember one example being yahoo i believe. Oct 13 21:19:11 dBsooner-work: ah, so some are using the entire user-agent that probably should be just detecting webkit instead Oct 13 21:19:25 destinal: I do not claim this "spoof" makes websites display any differently. All I claim is the fan base is asking for it to be a webOS-Patch, so I am trying to make it happen . Oct 13 21:19:29 browser smiffing is stupid Oct 13 21:19:44 smiffing? new word? Oct 13 21:19:51 * dBsooner-work HATES browser sniffing. Oct 13 21:19:58 it's like sniffing but you're miffed about it Oct 13 21:20:07 oh, btw, big thanks to everybody who recommended Crockford's book Oct 13 21:20:08 portmanteau words Oct 13 21:20:27 sugardave: You're welcome, i was one of those. Saw him speak at MIT a few weeks ago, was a good talk Oct 13 21:20:33 welcome sugardave it's an amazing little book isn't it. Oct 13 21:20:54 yes, I'm still reading it, and still stumped on a couple things, but so far so good Oct 13 21:20:58 * FreeTim nods in Rick_work's direction Sure is. Small, but the core of everything I needed Oct 13 21:21:22 Rick_work: I understand that some sites might want to offer you mobile versions, but there should be a better standard to enable that sort of thing Oct 13 21:21:57 and you should always be able to decline and get the standard version Oct 13 21:22:06 if you can grasp closure and grasp the idea of passing a function as a parameter, javascript becomes a VERY expressive language. Oct 13 21:22:24 the latter is what I'm about to start experimenting with right now, actually Oct 13 21:23:15 * sugardave is going to write the most bad-ass Mojo Database js library. Oct 13 21:23:16 it's a VERY VERY WEIRD thing. Oct 13 21:23:17 haha Oct 13 21:24:14 destinal: ping Oct 13 21:24:38 destinal: I'm concerned about the ability to hide trojans in binary patches to get around our View Script safeguards. Oct 13 21:24:44 rwhitby: here Oct 13 21:26:05 do we really have any "need" for binary patches at this point in time? Oct 13 21:26:29 lol.. see, we talked about this earlier. Oct 13 21:26:59 rwhitby: yeah, binary patches are a significant concern for me too Oct 13 21:28:09 destinal: I agree with your statement about sites wanting to offer mobile based stuff. This was HUGE when WAP first came around.. It was easy to detect a WAP browser because almost every phone used the same browser. Now with the smartphone market on the up and up, there are literally endless possibilities to the type of browser combinations. Oct 13 21:28:32 how hard would it be to move the preware app feeds to a secure repository? Oct 13 21:28:39 like how apt uses gpg-signed repos Oct 13 21:28:40 destinal: the problem is there is no industry standard header set in the http world to identify a browser type Oct 13 21:29:05 and you guys could instate that no package could be accepted if the script runs binaries outside the repo or something Oct 13 21:29:36 dBsooner-work: well, WAP was a separate standard, not just apps / sites trying to detect browsers and feed them alternative HTML files Oct 13 21:29:38 sampson: everything in preware... impossible Oct 13 21:30:01 sampson: we have no control over the content on other feeds Oct 13 21:30:04 destinal: true.. but netfront made it easy to detect browser Oct 13 21:30:19 PuffTheMagic: yeah but if you moved to gpg-signed feeds you could easily revoke a key Oct 13 21:30:26 due to having malicious packages Oct 13 21:30:31 sampson: ipkg dont support gpg Oct 13 21:30:37 that i know of Oct 13 21:30:38 that's lame Oct 13 21:30:44 someone exploit ipkg so we can get secure feeds Oct 13 21:30:56 haha Oct 13 21:31:03 there is no point to gpg feeds Oct 13 21:31:11 in homebrew Oct 13 21:31:31 even palm isnt doing the "review process" any more Oct 13 21:31:34 then have a massive disclaimer i guess Oct 13 21:31:58 where's the log for preware every time i launch it now it never loads Oct 13 21:32:05 its already a given for homebrew Oct 13 21:32:27 PuffTheMagic: I think signing is actually somewhere we want to be at some point, if to prevent man-in-the-middle attacks if nothing else Oct 13 21:32:40 s/if to/to/ Oct 13 21:32:40 destinal meant: PuffTheMagic: I think signing is actually somewhere we want to be at some point, to prevent man-in-the-middle attacks if nothing else Oct 13 21:33:14 destinal: how would that be possible Oct 13 21:33:20 destinal: which is something I proposed to rwhitby. If we want to distribute binary patches, they will need to be signed in some way to be able to "authenticate" where they are from Oct 13 21:33:27 PuffTheMagic: how would signing be possible? Oct 13 21:33:34 and for users to "confirm" or "deny" acception of the signed package Oct 13 21:33:55 yeah but where does the "trusted" list come from Oct 13 21:34:08 and how does a user confirmation prevent man in the middle Oct 13 21:35:31 PuffTheMagic: basically you'd have to have a signing key for each feed, I think Oct 13 21:35:48 "by confirming you are releasing all responsibility from webos-internals group" Oct 13 21:35:49 well per feed isnt very secure Oct 13 21:36:12 it would have to e per package to be completely secure Oct 13 21:36:17 or per devel Oct 13 21:36:24 which could get messy and big Oct 13 21:36:42 But it all goes back to: How necessary is binary patching? Oct 13 21:36:48 the best would be like how debian does it where they assign keys to each feed Oct 13 21:36:51 I meant for any packages a feed hosts it could sign them. Oct 13 21:36:51 im just thinking of "secure" websites... esp those that are untrusted... where they prompt users to add the site to a trusted list Oct 13 21:36:57 that is so not secure Oct 13 21:36:57 and if something is owned/marked insecure the key is invalidated Oct 13 21:37:01 it dont prevent anything Oct 13 21:37:04 which makes it impossible to use the feed with apt Oct 13 21:37:08 its just 1 more click the user is gonna do blindly Oct 13 21:37:19 PuffTheMagic: yeah, nothing like that Oct 13 21:37:26 then like what Oct 13 21:37:41 looks like opkg supports gpg Oct 13 21:37:54 preware/webosinternals is not a distro Oct 13 21:38:01 methods distros use is not gonna work here Oct 13 21:38:06 PuffTheMagic: I think the easiest way is just get a feed from a trusted authority Oct 13 21:38:16 s/feed/certificate (key)/ Oct 13 21:38:16 destinal meant: PuffTheMagic: I think the easiest way is just get a certificate (key) from a trusted authority Oct 13 21:38:41 * PuffTheMagic goes to eat dinner Oct 13 21:38:41 PuffTheMagic: opkg is a fork of ipkg so it would be entirely supported Oct 13 21:38:46 PuffTheMagic: x509 Oct 13 21:38:50 would just require a forced update to all preware users Oct 13 21:39:12 sampson: we CANT break ipkg compat Oct 13 21:39:19 that was a rule from day 1 Oct 13 21:39:23 must use ipkg Oct 13 21:39:32 PuffTheMagic: opkg uses ipkg format Oct 13 21:40:30 as does apt actually, it's all debs Oct 13 21:41:18 PuffTheMagic: opkg uses ipkg format Oct 13 21:41:25 has anyone been able to get google wave working on the pre? techcrunch claims it is possible but it does not work for me. Oct 13 21:41:44 opkg is completely ipkg compatible Oct 13 21:42:26 that's been proven on the OpenMoko project. I have contributed patches to opkg in the past to fix compatibility problems. Oct 13 21:43:12 destinal: I agree that binary patches would be the thing which would push the signing issue to the forefront. Oct 13 21:43:26 One more time: How necessary is a standard for binary patching? How much would it be utilized? Is it worth all the stress of creating the standard for just one or two patches? Oct 13 21:45:07 Wait.. you currently don't show the patch source in the "show script" option in Preware, right? Oct 13 21:45:14 you just show the script. Oct 13 21:45:18 as-is preware is highly insecure Oct 13 21:45:30 should any feed get owned you'll have a fiasco like debian had a few years back Oct 13 21:45:37 rwhitby: well, how much worse is a binary patch than someone just including a binary and overwriting in a script? Oct 13 21:45:55 rwhitby: either way, the casual user has no idea what it's doing except that it's overwriting a system file Oct 13 21:45:58 So what's the difference between it being a .patch and a .bsdiff? You're not showing the source of the patch anyway, just the script that invokes "patch -p1 ..." Oct 13 21:46:23 dBsooner-work: also true Oct 13 21:47:07 sampson: yep, we should just close the whole thing down .... ;-) (I agree with your assesment, BTW) Oct 13 21:47:50 not close it down but it's quite possible for someone dedicated enough to completely own a feed and freely distribute trojans Oct 13 21:47:56 dBsooner-work: in the case of this patch though you *could* just "sed -i" with a text string, yeah? Oct 13 21:48:19 dBsooner-work: a textual patch is available for anyone to look at. a binary patch is opaque. Oct 13 21:48:33 destinal: sed -i on the binary? Sure. I suppose you could. Oct 13 21:48:37 destinal: if we ever saw a binary file in a patch ipkg, we know there's a potential issue. Oct 13 21:48:40 anyways time for me to do real world things enough linux nerding Oct 13 21:49:03 destinal: yes, sed -i is fine, as long as the replacement string is text, not executable binary Oct 13 21:49:29 rwhitby: I know that. I am simply stating As-It-Stands-Now, a user doesn't see the actual .patch in Preware. They have to cat it or view it from a browser on the web. It's not streamlined. Oct 13 21:50:06 dBsooner-work: a user doesn't, but a developer does. Oct 13 21:50:14 dBsooner-work: for large enough patches, it would be hard to make it actually readable on the device in a way that a user can make much sense out of Oct 13 21:50:29 if we accept binary patch submissions that contain non-text replacements, then even you as the developer have no idea what it does Oct 13 21:50:34 understoodl. Oct 13 21:51:04 I honestly think binary patching is not a good idea. Oct 13 21:51:07 * rwhitby bbl - this needs serious thought. Oct 13 21:52:20 hmmm.. if palm just fully open sourced their webkit so we could actually build our own binaries, this would be a non-issue Oct 13 21:52:38 in that we wouldn't have to distribute something to modify the binary, I mean Oct 13 21:53:04 very true Oct 13 21:53:09 or we could just go windows and have registry keys Oct 13 21:53:10 :D Oct 13 21:53:43 dBsooner-work: registry keys mean nothing when strings are hard-coded, the equivalent would be a config file in linux Oct 13 21:53:55 which again, they'd have to use one Oct 13 21:54:15 i was referring to user agents Oct 13 21:54:20 not binary patches as a whole Oct 13 22:20:15 now that i think about it Oct 13 22:20:26 pretty sure even the iphone cydia repos use secure apt Oct 13 22:40:00 sampson: yeah, we've been thinking about secure signed packages for a while now Oct 13 22:41:10 looks like google wave doesn't want to work right on the pre ... keeps crashing :( Oct 13 22:41:34 you're not missing much Oct 13 22:42:03 it would be nice to know why it doesn't work ... that's for sure Oct 13 23:02:54 I cant make a patch for the life of me Oct 13 23:02:59 It keeps making them wrong Oct 13 23:05:19 what is It Oct 13 23:05:48 For my theme Oct 13 23:06:11 It keeps counting the white spaces or something even though I told it to ignore them Oct 13 23:06:16 It does the same thing in two programs Oct 13 23:08:54 what is It Oct 13 23:09:02 .css file Oct 13 23:09:17 so ".css file keeps conting the white spaces"... Oct 13 23:09:42 I dont know? Im new to this patching and Im having trouble with making them lol Oct 13 23:10:28 I've been trying to ask you what you are using to make the patch Oct 13 23:10:52 TortoiseMerge and WinMerge Oct 13 23:11:01 get off windows Oct 13 23:11:21 Id prefer a solution, not an alternative Oct 13 23:13:29 Seems like I need to find a way to ignore EOL differences Oct 13 23:16:14 http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/ Oct 13 23:16:38 Windows text editor is adding CR bytes to end of each line Oct 13 23:17:00 yea I found that out Oct 13 23:18:43 I thought I mentioned it last time, maybe it was someone else. But anyhow, if you really need to use windows for this, I'd look for some good tools Oct 13 23:19:03 im not going to create a whole OS for a theme lol Oct 13 23:19:19 create a whole OS? Oct 13 23:19:34 Abyssul: you just need a text editory that can change/view line endings? Oct 13 23:19:41 Create a partition and install the OS Oct 13 23:20:22 yea you could also just use a text editor in non DOS mode or whatever to stop getting those CR Oct 13 23:20:59 Abyssul, who needs to create a partition? VirtualBox. Or maybe you could use source control like git Oct 13 23:21:08 There are many solutions Oct 13 23:21:44 you could even do it on your pre Oct 13 23:21:52 I know Oct 13 23:22:03 Abyssul: Just use a program like Notepad++ if that's all you need, allows you to see and change things like line feeds Oct 13 23:23:20 Abyssul, why are you creating a patch for your theme? Oct 13 23:23:35 Abyssul: on windows, I used cygwin for doing git's Oct 13 23:23:37 git diff Oct 13 23:23:39 new theme builder should be out soon no? Does prethemer support patches yet? Oct 13 23:23:46 and to EDIT files, I use EmEditor Oct 13 23:23:49 or Textpad Oct 13 23:23:52 So that it is compatible with Jasons QI and not violate copyright Oct 13 23:23:57 both of those are Unix friendly editors Oct 13 23:24:27 then install cygwin to do your git diff's Oct 13 23:24:37 create a stock 1.2.1 userland Oct 13 23:24:56 in other words extract the 1.2.1 webosdoc webos image to a directory Oct 13 23:25:07 then cd to that directory in cygwin shell Oct 13 23:25:09 and git init Oct 13 23:25:11 git add . Oct 13 23:25:33 git commit -m "Initial Stock webOS v1.2.1" Oct 13 23:25:38 git tag v.1.2.1 Oct 13 23:25:39 Way too difficult for just a simple patch... Oct 13 23:25:47 no it's not Oct 13 23:25:54 you want to make it easy for future releases? Oct 13 23:25:56 It is if you dont know linux that much Oct 13 23:26:03 dude, those are very simple commands Oct 13 23:26:10 i am tellign you EXACTLY how to do it Oct 13 23:26:14 I have cygwin installed Oct 13 23:26:31 did you install "Git" with it? Oct 13 23:26:58 QI accepts patch files with themes now? Oct 13 23:27:06 idk, ive only completed the "download.bat" and "install.bat" Oct 13 23:27:17 * dBsooner-work sighs. Oct 13 23:27:29 let's do it an easier way Oct 13 23:27:33 uninstall cygwin Oct 13 23:27:36 patches originated as a unix source code thing Oct 13 23:27:46 do git Oct 13 23:27:50 i am going to Oct 13 23:27:51 git is the EASIEST way Oct 13 23:27:58 k Oct 13 23:28:00 i am going to tell him the EXACT program to use Oct 13 23:28:09 there is a Git for windows Oct 13 23:28:14 ok Oct 13 23:28:17 it installs cygwin with the newest git Oct 13 23:28:21 Whats wrong with tortoise? :p Oct 13 23:28:41 it's not working for you? Oct 13 23:28:47 Would be a good hint something is wrong with it. ;) Oct 13 23:29:06 It doesn't ignore the carriage line differences Oct 13 23:29:13 download this: http://code.google.com/p/msysgit/ Oct 13 23:29:15 install it Oct 13 23:29:46 then you need to make sure you have the webosdoc 1.2.1 Oct 13 23:29:55 Does it interfere that I have win7? Oct 13 23:29:58 then get textpad++, it's free. Oct 13 23:30:06 On the cygwin page, it says win7 isnt supported Oct 13 23:30:06 Abyssul: I run win 7 64 bit Oct 13 23:30:31 I am an original private beta tester for MS. Oct 13 23:30:34 Trust me, it works. Oct 13 23:31:09 download msysgit and install it.. get Notepad++, EmEditor, TextPad, or similar Oct 13 23:31:18 alright Oct 13 23:31:19 during msysgit install, make sure you check the "Unix style" Oct 13 23:31:22 not "windows" Oct 13 23:31:42 text editor is meaningless if he's going to use git (-b) Oct 13 23:31:43 once you get that far I should be back from inside this house Oct 13 23:32:07 egaudet: Aye, but I am used to having a fancy editor that has line numbers and saves in any format Oct 13 23:32:21 and even highlights proper coding Oct 13 23:32:59 if egaudet is nice, he might walk you through extracting the webosdoc into a directory and initializing your Stock 1.2.1 git Oct 13 23:33:09 or I'll do it when IU ge tback Oct 13 23:33:10 I can extract the webos files Oct 13 23:33:15 I actually created a tutorial for it Oct 13 23:33:51 can i uninstall gnuwin32? Oct 13 23:36:14 Done Oct 13 23:37:08 you extracted the base webos files to their own directory? Oct 13 23:37:32 I do every time an webOS update comes out Oct 13 23:37:35 browse to that directory in explorer then right click in it and "open Git Bash here.." Oct 13 23:37:54 alright Oct 13 23:38:01 so you are in that directory in the shell? Oct 13 23:38:07 yep Oct 13 23:38:13 git init Oct 13 23:38:20 git add . Oct 13 23:38:32 git commit -m "Initial Stock webOS v1.2.1" Oct 13 23:38:38 git commit -a Oct 13 23:38:40 git tag v1.2.1 Oct 13 23:38:52 PuffTheMagic: puff off Oct 13 23:38:54 ;) Oct 13 23:38:59 Rofl Oct 13 23:39:14 to sidetrack, PuffTheMagic git commit -a isnt' needed after a git add . I thought Oct 13 23:39:17 i wish i could, but i need to be clean for jobs Oct 13 23:39:32 those done? Oct 13 23:39:35 On git add ., its hanging. Still adding those files? Oct 13 23:39:53 probably should have just did a git add usr Oct 13 23:40:13 egaudet: git commit -a != git add .; git commit Oct 13 23:40:21 Yea lol theres quite a big of warnings about "warning: CRLF will be replaced by LF in (directory)" Oct 13 23:40:28 and dBsooner-work never verified with you what directory you are in Oct 13 23:40:32 and what it contains Oct 13 23:40:41 PuffTheMagic, never said it was equal Oct 13 23:40:58 but after git add . from the base directory, what exactly does git commit -a offer Oct 13 23:41:12 * Abyssul twitches Oct 13 23:42:44 no it dont Oct 13 23:43:01 git add . will add new files that are currently unknown to git Oct 13 23:43:23 git commit -a includes all modifications in the commit Oct 13 23:43:34 you need to do git add . before a git commit -a to get ALL changes Oct 13 23:43:45 PuffTheMagic, this was after a git init Oct 13 23:43:47 unless you want to miss new files Oct 13 23:43:48 you don't need commit -a Oct 13 23:43:57 everything is a new file Oct 13 23:44:02 may as well always get in a habit of doing -a Oct 13 23:44:02 and git add . adds new files Oct 13 23:44:17 i've never done -a Oct 13 23:44:47 i don't know what I'm missing yet Oct 13 23:44:56 what does git add skip? Oct 13 23:45:20 Talking to me? Oct 13 23:45:28 no Oct 13 23:45:35 Abyssul: : ok.. now you need to modify the files in that stock directory Oct 13 23:45:38 PuffTheMagic, git add stages new and modified files Oct 13 23:45:39 make your changes Oct 13 23:45:51 Can I just copy the files? Oct 13 23:46:07 Hmm.,. I guess it would work. Oct 13 23:46:14 because they are statically the sime otherwise Oct 13 23:46:30 s/sime/same/ Oct 13 23:46:30 dBsooner-work meant: because they are statically the same otherwise Oct 13 23:46:36 Or how about I make my themes directory the master git? Oct 13 23:46:53 after you make your changes do: git diff -b > whatever-name.patch Oct 13 23:46:55 dBsooner-work, he's not done Oct 13 23:47:00 It is setup as /usr/palm/... Oct 13 23:47:11 Its still adding files with the git add . Oct 13 23:47:15 what's left? Oct 13 23:47:17 ohh Oct 13 23:47:17 lol Oct 13 23:47:32 dBsooner-work, you didn't even know what directory he was in when you started the git add . Oct 13 23:47:34 Abyssul: no. Oct 13 23:47:47 egaudet: it should matter. Oct 13 23:47:54 shouldnt* Oct 13 23:47:59 dBsooner-work, it could very well depending on what is in the directory Oct 13 23:48:10 and there's no need to track anything outside of /usr is there? Oct 13 23:48:11 he said it was a clean 1.2.1 only Oct 13 23:48:15 brb gonna go eat Oct 13 23:48:22 he could have extracted the doctor anywhere Oct 13 23:48:29 Desktop^ Oct 13 23:48:30 he said it was a clean directgory Oct 13 23:48:37 and he said he was INSIDE the 1.2.1 dir Oct 13 23:48:41 Yep Oct 13 23:48:44 go to the rootfs where you see usr Oct 13 23:48:44 when i had him do git init Oct 13 23:48:51 that's where he was Oct 13 23:48:54 when he did git init Oct 13 23:49:01 and git add . Oct 13 23:49:08 bin boot etc home lib mnt sbin usr var Oct 13 23:49:44 lynyrd skynyrd is australlian? Oct 13 23:52:16 oh there's a remotelinux app cool Oct 13 23:54:19 wtf Oct 13 23:54:43 ? Oct 13 23:55:21 RemoteLinux requires a closed source binary server exe on linux desktop? Oct 13 23:55:30 hahaha Oct 13 23:55:42 wtf is it for? Oct 13 23:56:44 and then in the "guide" it tells me on my "server box" to click start, then run, then type "cmd" Oct 13 23:56:54 http://www.deepthoughtsoftware.com/RemoteLinux_Guide Oct 13 23:57:05 use your pre to connect to your linux desktop supposedly Oct 13 23:57:19 hahaha Oct 13 23:57:32 i thought there was already a vnc client for pre? Oct 13 23:58:03 there is Oct 13 23:58:23 remotelinux might mean LINUX as in Pre. Oct 13 23:58:44 no Oct 13 23:58:46 it doesn't Oct 14 00:04:22 bbiaf Oct 14 00:05:22 Git is still adding files lol Oct 14 00:07:02 Abyssul: you doing on the pre? Oct 14 00:07:12 s/on/that on/ Oct 14 00:07:13 PuffTheMagic meant: Abyssul: you doing that on the pre? Oct 14 00:07:55 Git Bash Oct 14 00:09:06 * Abyssul bows Oct 14 00:09:27 * freakout-work pins a KICK ME note to Abssul's back Oct 14 00:09:47 s/Abssul's/Abyssul's/ Oct 14 00:11:16 haha Oct 14 00:35:08 ok the git bash is done adding files Oct 14 00:58:18 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-internals/testing/all/org.webosinternals.fairdinkum_0.4.0_all.ipk ready for alpha testing Oct 14 01:02:00 * nt4cats made an amazing discovery at work today Oct 14 01:02:29 * nt4cats didn't spend all day at work on #webos-internals, and I actually got work done that my employer pays me money to do Oct 14 01:05:06 nt4cats: conformist :p Oct 14 01:05:06 So anyone know of any upcoming interesting patches or apps to look forward to? :) Oct 14 01:05:48 Flashpass: I predict in a week or two there'll be a SIM unlock for UK Pres ;) Oct 14 01:05:57 hehe... 212 thanks on PreCentral :D Oct 14 01:07:14 freakout-work: hmm, that would only be interesting if I didn't just lock into a sprint contract hehe Oct 14 01:07:26 Abyssul: On what? Oct 14 01:08:32 Overall Oct 14 01:09:01 Abyssul: Nice Oct 14 01:10:10 Anyone tried looking into expanding the PIN security features? Oct 14 01:12:47 freakout-work: I agree. But are UK pre's available at any price without contract? Oct 14 01:13:11 ignore sim-lock I expect they'll have reversed the modem code in the DE pre in a week or two same as you Oct 14 01:14:23 Still looking for an alpha tester for new fairdinkum .... Oct 14 01:14:54 * oil has never hit the limit Oct 14 01:16:11 ok, Carl tested it. Pushing now Oct 14 01:17:13 Strangely, I've yet to see fairdinkum in preware Oct 14 01:17:19 wondering if my feeds are borken Oct 14 01:17:27 s/feeds/feeds config/ Oct 14 01:17:43 appmenu>update feeds? Oct 14 01:17:55 Yup, didn't appear after that Oct 14 01:18:03 rwhitby: what changed? Oct 14 01:20:21 Rod: I'll try it, but I had used the symlink solution prior to fairdinkum coming out, so I was skating above the (first) threshold Oct 14 01:21:24 rwhitby: You have a sence of naming apps. Love it! Oct 14 01:23:21 rick_home: You can get the Irish Pre on a pre-paid plan, supposedly. Oct 14 01:23:31 I just installed fairdinkum 0.4.0 Oct 14 01:23:37 rick_home: failing that, you could always just buy a UK one and break contract ;) Oct 14 01:25:23 freakout-work: thanks I forgot the irish pre-paid plan method Oct 14 01:25:29 thatdude: *cough * *cough* Oct 14 01:25:36 lol Oct 14 01:25:41 what's the cost of the irish prepaid? Oct 14 01:25:49 freakout-work is who came up with fairdinkum Oct 14 01:26:33 s/installed/updated from 0.3.0 to/ Oct 14 01:26:51 oil: Hush ;) Oct 14 01:27:03 rick_home: 421 EUR... slightly cheaper than the german actually Oct 14 01:27:18 gosh Oct 14 01:27:26 freakout-work: no comments. Oct 14 01:27:31 60 EUR less than the German and QWERTY to boot Oct 14 01:27:45 and if stefan and co come up with an unlock... Oct 14 01:27:47 I can't type today. Oh well. Oct 14 01:27:50 well, I guess I would wait. Oct 14 01:28:09 of course, a gsm pre is of absolutely no use to me. Oct 14 01:29:15 lol Oct 14 01:30:21 rick_home: Nope. not waiting. And I'm not relying on a hack either, I don't trust Palm not to break it with future updates ;) Oct 14 01:31:18 QWERTZ will be a good conversation starter anyways, heh Oct 14 01:31:28 lol Oct 14 01:31:50 oil check 3g coverage in Kansas some time. :-/ not happening. AT&T or t-mobile -- neither one offer the kind of coverage I need where I live. I'm 60 miles from Sprint's headquarters, I have 4g coverage edge to edge around here. (Note: --- 4g --- ) not that the pre is a 4g device..... Oct 14 01:32:26 freakout-work -- makes perfect sense to me Oct 14 01:32:31 oil lives in kansas? Oct 14 01:32:38 Rick lives in Kansas Oct 14 01:32:43 Oh Oct 14 01:32:52 * oil is in washington Oct 14 01:32:58 Rick LIKES living in Kansas Oct 14 01:33:43 oil: dc or the state Oct 14 01:34:04 if i lived in dc i would have specified :) Oct 14 01:34:26 so, the state Oct 14 01:37:33 oil: i dont assume Oct 14 01:37:40 lol Oct 14 01:37:57 people in DC thing washington == DC Oct 14 01:38:04 and that there is no other washington Oct 14 01:38:09 lol Oct 14 01:38:17 well, they suck Oct 14 01:38:26 they need to look at a map Oct 14 01:38:33 and see which says washington without anything after it :) Oct 14 01:39:07 brb Oct 14 01:39:55 Whatever happen to the video recorder on the Palm Pre, project is lost? Oct 14 01:41:17 Was it independent? Oct 14 01:41:22 if I were palm, I'd have that for some big "2.0" roll out ala iPhone or something but I'm eager for it. Oct 14 01:41:22 i didnt know there was a "project" Oct 14 01:41:51 Whats an iPhone? Oct 14 01:42:10 ;-) Oct 14 01:42:29 I went to High School in DC -- and can confirm that people from there self-identify as being from DC Oct 14 01:43:17 what's sorta funny in my office is that all my iPhone users have jailbroken their phones so there's no smack talk it's just like "Hey, what did you get *your* phone to do today?" and it's all cool. Oct 14 01:44:11 we just compare modifications. Oct 14 01:46:24 Mods! Ha, it takes the iPhone 2 years to create an awesome modification... copy and paste! Oct 14 01:46:46 Apple not iPhone... geeez! Oct 14 01:48:51 hehe Oct 14 01:56:20 I don't get the fanboyism behind the two products. They're both cool phones. Oct 14 02:04:25 So the new version of Fair Dinkum.. What has it changed? Oct 14 02:06:41 Can anyone see my messages? Oct 14 02:06:50 i see it Splmonster Oct 14 02:06:59 Okay good.. Oct 14 02:07:14 I'm wondering what the new of update of Fair Dinkum seems to do Oct 14 02:07:16 * oil looks away Oct 14 02:07:31 fixes limits Oct 14 02:07:46 No I know that.. I had 0.3.0 prior and saw the update Oct 14 02:07:54 Wondering what changed in the update Oct 14 02:08:36 rwhitby: ping Oct 14 02:11:08 PuffTheMagic: ping Oct 14 02:11:36 ? Oct 14 02:11:48 So in order to totally fix the install limit, I need both fair dinkum and meta doctor? Oct 14 02:11:54 lspci: Oct 14 02:12:01 dont spam it here Oct 14 02:12:06 pastbind it Oct 14 02:12:10 pastebin Oct 14 02:12:17 lol Oct 14 02:12:31 Was that directed to me? Oct 14 02:12:35 GA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RS690M [Radeon X1200 Series Oct 14 02:12:42 that was the important line Oct 14 02:13:09 i beleive that is >=r500 Oct 14 02:13:12 you using kms? Oct 14 02:13:16 eew ati Oct 14 02:13:21 thatdude: no way Oct 14 02:13:24 ati is the best Oct 14 02:13:27 oss docs and drivers Oct 14 02:13:30 nvidia can die Oct 14 02:13:30 thatdude: ati = Dashiznet Oct 14 02:13:35 I love ATI Oct 14 02:13:40 Forget Nvidia Oct 14 02:13:52 Yeah but it gave me hell when it came to Linux support drivers Oct 14 02:14:03 dBsooner: does glxgears work properly? Oct 14 02:14:12 thatdude: ati/amd has THE BEST linux support Oct 14 02:14:16 Things could have change over the years Oct 14 02:14:29 well Oct 14 02:14:35 PuffTheMagic: I don't know if kms is enabled or not Oct 14 02:14:35 intel+amd have the best support Oct 14 02:14:39 lol Oct 14 02:14:45 Well yeah, could of been when AMD bought ATI but before that... bleh Oct 14 02:14:51 dBsooner: does glxgears use HW or SW rendering Oct 14 02:15:15 thatdude: even before that... they were inproving by leaps and bounds, where nvidia just stayed the same Oct 14 02:15:17 no improvements Oct 14 02:15:27 ^^Agreed Oct 14 02:16:15 GL_RENDERER = Mesa DRI R300 (RS690 791F) 20090101 NO-TCL Oct 14 02:16:36 wow... and you have choppy scrolling Oct 14 02:16:36 hmm Oct 14 02:16:43 Well I had the ATI 9700 and those drivers gave me hell Oct 14 02:16:43 GL_VERSION = 1.5 Mesa 7.6 Oct 14 02:17:02 GL_VENDOR = DRI R300 Projec Oct 14 02:17:31 Wow that's 7 years ago o_O Oct 14 02:17:43 hmm Oct 14 02:17:44 lol Oct 14 02:17:58 dBsooner: what accel method Oct 14 02:18:04 EXA? Oct 14 02:18:08 I think its time to try to install omniboox Oct 14 02:18:11 omnibook Oct 14 02:18:15 fan just kicked on and won't go off Oct 14 02:18:18 or XAA Oct 14 02:19:22 Lol, same issue I had when I ran glxinfo | grep rendering Oct 14 02:20:41 PuffTheMagic: where do I see accel method? Oct 14 02:20:41 Said Yes to direct rendering and the games where choppy, damn you ATI and RedHat 7-8 years ago. Oct 14 02:21:11 dBsooner: look in xorg.log Oct 14 02:21:47 EXA Oct 14 02:25:39 Hello Oct 14 02:26:17 I installed a family guy theme, and when I went to remove it, it literally merged itself in with the default theme. Now I can't get the regular palm pre theme back, and the family guy theme has been uninstalled. HELP!!!!!! Oct 14 02:27:20 Can ANY one help? PLEASE Oct 14 02:28:38 find the theme developer Oct 14 02:29:16 and email or txt the theme developer regarding your issue. Oct 14 02:29:28 AGH Oct 14 02:29:39 YUP Oct 14 02:29:40 I want to know how this even happened Oct 14 02:29:46 It's merged in with my normal theme Oct 14 02:29:49 How does that even HAPPEN? Oct 14 02:31:41 Manifest did you restart LUNA or even rebooted your phone after uninstalling the theme? Oct 14 02:31:55 I did both Oct 14 02:32:08 LUNA restarted by itself, how do I do it manually? Oct 14 02:33:19 Hey pregame Oct 14 02:33:30 oops, sorry, thought you were someone else Oct 14 02:33:45 thatdude: how I do I manually restart LUNA? Oct 14 02:33:58 Manifest: See if someone has the default theme where you can download from the feed. Oct 14 02:34:06 easiest way is to install the lunamanager app from preware Oct 14 02:34:20 thatdude: new to this, can you elaborate? Oct 14 02:34:30 Manifest: No need to restart Luna but I agree with gtatsev. Oct 14 02:34:34 manifest: two things -- don't yell at the people you're asking to help you, and install the luna manager application using PreWare Oct 14 02:34:51 nt4cats: I am not yelling, simply trying to get assistance :) Oct 14 02:34:57 thatdude: ok Oct 14 02:35:20 thatdude: that hurts dude, its a k. lol, jk. :) Oct 14 02:35:31 :P Oct 14 02:36:08 gkatsev: Blame my magic dragon ;) Oct 14 02:36:09 Manifest: it happened cause themes suck and they have high potential for breaking shit Oct 14 02:36:27 Manifest: preware just lets you install the "crap" that other devs put out there if you choose to Oct 14 02:36:31 Yeah Oct 14 02:36:32 dually noted Oct 14 02:36:38 yeah Oct 14 02:36:44 i regret screwing with themes Oct 14 02:36:59 i pray luna manager works here, i don't know what to do if it doesn't Oct 14 02:37:09 its not like palm gave us an api for doing themes properly Oct 14 02:37:19 its a pretty 1/2 assed technology atm Oct 14 02:37:25 yeah Oct 14 02:38:03 luna manager didn't work Oct 14 02:38:13 anyone else have a suggestion as to how the deuce I can fix this? Oct 14 02:38:35 Manifest: You will need to install a default theme Oct 14 02:38:42 thatdude: from? Oct 14 02:38:59 thatdude: where do I get a default theme? Oct 14 02:39:51 thatdude, I could really use the assistance, can you help? Oct 14 02:40:37 Manifest: Sorry bro, I do not have the time or resource. Oct 14 02:40:49 thatdude: that's great... Oct 14 02:40:55 can anyone else help me out here? Oct 14 02:41:04 on a time constraint, this is very urgent i fix this Oct 14 02:41:07 Manifest: Ask the theme developer about your issue Oct 14 02:41:07 thatdude already recommended a fix for your problem, by the way (and I agree with him): contact the person who made the theme Oct 14 02:41:48 nt4cats: I had a problem, I was unaware :P Oct 14 02:41:51 Seems more like a problem with preware itself, not with the theme Oct 14 02:42:03 Manifest: o_O Oct 14 02:42:21 quick question: Anybody got a link for the how-to on resizing the /var partition? I've looked all over the place and can't find it. All I need is a link. Oct 14 02:43:32 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Solution_to_App_Catalog_Installation_Limit Oct 14 02:44:48 I don't get how there are still remains of a theme i deleted Oct 14 02:45:01 thatdude: Maybe I'm just blind, but that seems to talk all about fairdinkum and linking /mdeia/internal, but only makes one brief (and not so helpful) referrence to resizing the partitions. Oct 14 02:47:19 VeeDubb: I did a search on precentral for "resize var". The first hit was http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/203595-webosdr-setting-partition-file-sizes-get-around-memory-limitation.html Oct 14 02:47:54 * nt4cats 's powers of using the search feature (and occasionally the google itself) are amazing Oct 14 02:48:24 nt4cats: thanks. I actually searched for resize /var and resizing /var with and without quotes. However, I never tried searching without the / Oct 14 02:49:16 http://www.precentral.net/webos-update-fix-app-install-limit-due-soon Oct 14 02:49:36 VeeDubb65-steve: That was not posted too long ago Oct 14 02:51:23 thatdude: thanks. I've already got all the info I need now. I'd already used the search feature extensively, but just couldn't find the one particular post I was looking for. Fortunately, the one nt4cats posted was what I was missing. Oct 14 02:52:44 VeeDubb: do understand that resizing your partitions is pushing you FAR out on the hacked-phone fringe. No idea what will happen if you try to update your phone, etc. Oct 14 02:53:58 VeeDubb: you should consider the article that thatdude linked you to carefully -- if we're getting a long term solution from Palm in a matter of weeks maybe your should consider using Fair Dinkum and/or symlinking (using mvapp) to get you through until then Oct 14 02:54:05 nt4cats: oh absolutely, and I appreciate the warning. But, I've been a linux user for many many years, and feel confident in my ability to not screw it up. Oct 14 02:54:09 besides, I'm bored tonight Oct 14 02:54:41 I just wanted that post because I was 99% sure I recalled reading one or two details that were 'unusual' in terms of partition resizing. Oct 14 02:55:03 VeeDubb: I'm not worried about you screwing it up, but you're adding a lot of work for yourself to set this up -- that you're probably going to have to undo in a few weeks. Oct 14 02:55:34 I think you missed the most important part. I"m really bored tonight. Oct 14 02:55:36 lol Oct 14 02:55:45 it's this, or figure out how to write a program Oct 14 02:55:58 and since I haven't written a program in 8 years, this seems easier Oct 14 02:56:09 VeeDubb: Google "how to write a program" and start therer Oct 14 02:56:13 lol Oct 14 02:56:14 s/therer/there Oct 14 02:58:43 somehow I think that would be a little more generic than what I'd need to write a webos app. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Oct 14 02:59:56 2009