**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Nov 06 02:59:57 2009
Nov 06 03:06:35 <dBsooner> There, that's better.
Nov 06 03:06:43 <dBsooner> Got BIP running on one of my dedicated boxes
Nov 06 03:12:09 <latta> bip?
Nov 06 03:17:09 <dBsooner> bip is an irc bouncer
Nov 06 03:19:24 <latta> so do you use that to get to irc @ work or something?
Nov 06 03:21:44 <latta> or for privacy?
Nov 06 03:22:22 <Templarian> oil: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Icons
Nov 06 03:24:09 <rwhitby> dBsooner: git checkout webos-1.3.1, not origin
Nov 06 03:24:40 <dBsooner> I tried that
Nov 06 03:24:43 <dBsooner> it woulnd't le tme
Nov 06 03:24:48 <rwhitby> latta: you use bip so you can disconnect and reconnect to IRC without loosing the backlog
Nov 06 03:24:52 <dBsooner> I HAD to put origin/webos-1.3.1
Nov 06 03:25:23 <dBsooner> i did it as: git checkout -b webos-1.3.1 origin/webos-1.3.1
Nov 06 03:25:30 <dBsooner> and just pushed something to it
Nov 06 03:25:30 <dBsooner> and it worked
Nov 06 03:26:45 <dBsooner> pushed build script too rwhitby
Nov 06 03:27:16 <dBsooner> and build worked perfectly
Nov 06 03:27:32 <rwhitby> dBsooner: yeah, that would work
Nov 06 03:27:42 <rwhitby> dBsooner: which build script?
Nov 06 03:27:43 <dBsooner> now I do: git checkout webos-1.3.1
Nov 06 03:28:03 <dBsooner> updated Makefile script is all
Nov 06 03:28:21 <dBsooner> for email-add-priority...
Nov 06 03:28:43 <dBsooner> I am having problems build openssh on my local clone .. know why?
Nov 06 03:28:53 <dBsooner> ar: openssh_5.2p1-2_armv7/data.tar.gz: Cannot open: No such file or directory
Nov 06 03:29:33 <dBsooner> dbeames@beames-laptop:~/PalmPre/git/build$ ls -l downloads/openssh_5.2p1-2_armv7.ipk
Nov 06 03:29:33 <dBsooner> -rwxrwxr-x 1 dbeames dbeames 381 2009-10-30 00:29 downloads/openssh_5.2p1-2_armv7.ipk
Nov 06 03:30:08 <rwhitby> dBsooner: 381 bytes is a bit small for an ipkg
Nov 06 03:30:17 <dBsooner> you have a valid point
Nov 06 03:30:20 <dBsooner> I just read that
Nov 06 03:30:36 <rwhitby> is that on a desktop?
Nov 06 03:30:43 <dBsooner> laptop
Nov 06 03:30:50 <dBsooner> the permissions?
Nov 06 03:31:12 <rwhitby> what do the 381 bytes say?
Nov 06 03:32:00 <dBsooner> that's being pulled from nslu2-linux.org
Nov 06 03:32:14 <dBsooner> i just rm'd it and it downloaded 381 again
Nov 06 03:32:34 <dBsooner> 404, file not found
Nov 06 03:32:49 <dBsooner>  /feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/unstable/openssh_5.2p1-2_arm.ipk
Nov 06 03:34:13 <dBsooner> openssh_5.3p1-1_arm.ipk
Nov 06 03:34:17 <dBsooner> ahh, its updated package
Nov 06 03:34:22 <dBsooner> that's why it can't find it
Nov 06 03:34:32 <dBsooner> but why isn't that being updated when I git pull?
Nov 06 03:34:56 <rwhitby> ipks are local files, not in git
Nov 06 03:36:16 <dBsooner> mkdir -p ../../downloads
Nov 06 03:36:16 <dBsooner> curl -R -L -o ../../downloads/openssh_5.2p1-2_armv7.ipk \
Nov 06 03:36:16 <dBsooner> 		http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/unstable/openssh_5.2p1-2_arm.ipk
Nov 06 03:36:30 <dBsooner> that was exactly what the build.git/Makefile did
Nov 06 03:36:48 <dBsooner> it's trying to grab an outdated ipk from nslu2-linux.org
Nov 06 03:38:28 <Templarian> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Icons Comments on the wIRC notification and notification PM icons (please guys).
Nov 06 03:38:43 <dBsooner> they suck
Nov 06 03:38:47 <dBsooner> :D
Nov 06 03:38:52 <dBsooner> I haven't even looked..
Nov 06 03:39:04 <rwhitby> dBsooner: I doubt that the preware/build.git Makefile is accessing nslu2-linux.org for any reason
Nov 06 03:39:40 <dBsooner> it is..
Nov 06 03:39:42 <dBsooner> for optwaqre
Nov 06 03:39:45 <dBsooner> optware*
Nov 06 03:40:14 <rwhitby> oh, not the top-level Makefile
Nov 06 03:40:49 <dBsooner> I do "make"
Nov 06 03:40:52 <dBsooner> from the top level
Nov 06 03:41:02 <dBsooner> and it tries to make optware too
Nov 06 03:41:08 <dBsooner> which I see now why it's failing
Nov 06 03:41:59 <rwhitby> dBsooner: so the error status of curl is not being checked?
Nov 06 03:42:12 <dBsooner> nope
Nov 06 03:42:18 <dBsooner> and the file it's trying to get doesn't exist
Nov 06 03:42:43 <dBsooner> because it wantws 5.2p1-2
Nov 06 03:43:04 <rwhitby> dBsooner: if curl returns an error status, the makefile will stop
Nov 06 03:43:09 <dBsooner> and 5.3p1-1 is there
Nov 06 03:43:35 <dBsooner> rwhitby: right
Nov 06 03:44:09 <Templarian> rwhitby: since you are here mind taking a look are those icons self explanatory for the notifications.
Nov 06 03:44:52 <dBsooner> rwhitby: so the line: SRC_OPTWARE = ${NAME}_5.2p1-2 in build.git/optware/openssh/Makefile neesd to change to 5.3p1-1, right?
Nov 06 03:45:13 <rwhitby> dBsooner: yes, and the VERSION probably needs to change too
Nov 06 03:45:18 <dBsooner> but technically, VERSION and CHANGELOG need to as well
Nov 06 03:45:30 <dBsooner> care if I change that?
Nov 06 03:45:37 <rwhitby> go for it
Nov 06 03:45:41 <dBsooner> or you could change it and push.. ;)
Nov 06 03:45:44 <dBsooner> and i'll just pull
Nov 06 03:48:28 <dBsooner> ill did it
Nov 06 03:48:29 <dBsooner> pushing
Nov 06 03:52:13 <rwhitby> did you push?
Nov 06 03:53:09 <dBsooner> yep
Nov 06 03:55:28 <dBsooner> rwhitby: have you not gotten any messages from dieter?
Nov 06 03:56:01 <rwhitby> dBsooner: no
Nov 06 03:56:18 <dBsooner> holy smokes, I have never paid attention to some of these theme sizes
Nov 06 03:56:28 <dBsooner> until now.. when I am actually going through a full build run
Nov 06 03:56:34 <dBsooner> 8megs, 10 megs
Nov 06 04:00:44 <latta> dBsooner, what'd u use for bip if you don't mind? bitlebee?
Nov 06 04:00:58 <dBsooner> bip
Nov 06 04:01:03 <dBsooner> it's call bip
Nov 06 04:02:35 <kesne> Anyone live near Disneyland?
Nov 06 04:12:54 <dBsooner> rwhitby: you've got mail
Nov 06 04:40:54 <Abyssul> hello
Nov 06 04:44:01 <sugardave> hello
Nov 06 05:56:57 <jauderho> lol at the <marquee> tag in sms.
Nov 06 05:57:23 <_droO> ? it works
Nov 06 05:57:44 <jauderho> yeah.
Nov 06 05:57:45 <jauderho> just tested
Nov 06 05:58:13 <_droO> wtf, do other tags work? like script? D;
Nov 06 05:58:23 <jauderho> you could try
Nov 06 05:58:49 <_droO> wow wtf, im going to try sending myself some txts
Nov 06 05:58:54 <_droO> see if i can do anythin ;o
Nov 06 05:59:35 <jauderho> nah
Nov 06 05:59:52 <jauderho> <script> does not do anything. I get an empty text
Nov 06 06:08:25 <lingfish> wow, it got hot./
Nov 06 06:08:32 <navinag> So I just got that notice that my phone is duw for the 1,21 update today.  I have not had any problems with my phone sine I initially go the 1,2.1 update....Is there a way to fix this issue>  everything that I read seemd to indicate doctoring the phone.
Nov 06 06:08:44 <navinag> I really dont want to doctor...
Nov 06 06:16:44 <dBsooner> navinag: I don't know where the current status of that stands
Nov 06 06:16:57 <dBsooner> I would make sure you don't have any non-palm stuff in /usr/palm/applications/
Nov 06 06:17:08 <dBsooner> well "installed to"
Nov 06 06:17:17 <dBsooner> like tether
Nov 06 06:18:59 <navinag> i will check
Nov 06 06:19:14 <navinag> Can I stop the update... it has started the download
Nov 06 06:21:46 <dBsooner> i'd just let it do it, it won't hurt anything.
Nov 06 06:24:51 <navinag> i will have to reinstall all my patches over again
Nov 06 06:26:08 <dBsooner> true
Nov 06 06:27:38 <navinag> that is what I am trying to avoid....
Nov 06 06:50:45 <preston> is it possible to make a patch for the phone app that calls the virtual keyboard whenever you launch it?
Nov 06 07:10:54 <dBsooner> rwhitby: ping ping ping
Nov 06 07:19:55 <Marajin> hai guys
Nov 06 07:50:17 <rwhitby> dBsooner-AFK: fixed
Nov 06 08:12:31 <guest_> hello
Nov 06 08:13:15 <guest_> i have problems re installing the virtual keyboard
Nov 06 08:13:31 <guest_> anyone can help?
Nov 06 09:24:57 <TreoRock> wow 115 people!
Nov 06 09:25:10 <TreoRock> hi everybody
Nov 06 09:25:24 <TreoRock> my first time here
Nov 06 09:25:49 <geist> pretty quiet time of day
Nov 06 09:26:00 <geist> late US, early europe
Nov 06 09:26:18 <TreoRock> yeah late for me
Nov 06 09:27:21 <TreoRock> geist: where are you?
Nov 06 09:27:45 <geist> west coast US
Nov 06 09:27:51 <oil> lol
Nov 06 09:28:00 <TreoRock> me too
Nov 06 09:28:13 <TreoRock> oil: you are here too!
Nov 06 09:28:21 <TreoRock> stop following me
Nov 06 09:28:24 <TreoRock> lol
Nov 06 09:29:12 <oil> normally here
Nov 06 09:29:28 <oil> we only made #wirc to move the arguing out of here
Nov 06 09:29:37 <TreoRock> oh ic
Nov 06 09:29:51 <TreoRock> did you read my comments?
Nov 06 09:30:00 <oil> yeah, it doesn't make any sense
Nov 06 09:30:07 <TreoRock> a reset after delete fixed it
Nov 06 09:31:14 <TreoRock> you guys are working on keeping the connection alive right?
Nov 06 09:31:25 <oil> they are, yeah
Nov 06 09:31:44 <TreoRock> cause right now it disconnects when the screen turns off
Nov 06 09:31:50 <oil> mine doesnt
Nov 06 09:31:53 <oil> wifi?
Nov 06 09:32:05 <oil> cause wifi turnsoff when teh screen does
Nov 06 09:32:06 <oil> evdo doesnt
Nov 06 09:32:08 <TreoRock> I'm on wifi
Nov 06 09:32:20 <TreoRock> @home and @work
Nov 06 09:32:38 <TreoRock> so that's probably why
Nov 06 09:32:54 <oil> yeah
Nov 06 09:32:56 <TreoRock> but gtalk doesn't do that
Nov 06 09:33:09 <oil> wirc != gtalk
Nov 06 09:33:10 <TreoRock> it stays alive
Nov 06 09:33:43 <TreoRock> lol
Nov 06 09:33:53 <TreoRock> thanks for the observation
Nov 06 09:34:17 <TreoRock> yeah, two different things
Nov 06 09:34:25 <oil> im an astute observer
Nov 06 09:35:02 <TreoRock> do you play video games?
Nov 06 09:35:14 <oil> not much recently, too busy programming
Nov 06 09:35:28 <TreoRock> MW2 comes out this Tuesday
Nov 06 09:35:29 <oil> and, i gotta get up in a few hours for work
Nov 06 09:35:31 <oil> so, bbt
Nov 06 09:35:38 <TreoRock> wow
Nov 06 09:35:44 <TreoRock> I'm out too
Nov 06 09:35:48 <TreoRock> good night
Nov 06 09:36:11 <oil> lol
Nov 06 09:41:04 <oc80z> whats good
Nov 06 09:49:00 <Marajin> oil: heh, MW2 may come out this tuesday but have you seen the news about it?
Nov 06 09:49:44 <Marajin> oil: they're like "NEIN! Yoo zhall not haff any kustomization or host own gamez! Sieg heil!" and goosestepping off.
Nov 06 09:50:20 <Marajin> when asked what changed between the console and PC version they were like 'you can change the resolution settings, use a mouse and type text chats!'
Nov 06 09:50:33 <Marajin> srsly? that's... the effort they put into porting to PC? :p
Nov 06 11:03:18 <jauderho> ??
Nov 06 11:08:28 <lingfish> And there we have it.  I have ordered my Pre :D
Nov 06 11:54:33 <rwhitby> lingfish: 13 days and mine is not here yet.
Nov 06 11:55:18 <lingfish> rwhitby: Yeah I'd be a tad annoyed at that... no tracking or anything?
Nov 06 11:55:27 <lingfish> looks like a week and a bit for my wait
Nov 06 11:55:28 <rwhitby> got numbers, but they don't work.
Nov 06 11:56:04 <lingfish> bah.
Nov 06 11:56:07 <rwhitby> will start to investigate on monday ...
Nov 06 11:56:13 * rwhitby bbt
Nov 06 11:56:24 <lingfish> bbt for me too.
Nov 06 12:27:30 <freakout> 12 days it took mine rwhitby. patience, my pet
Nov 06 12:27:46 <freakout> lingfish: congrats. where'd you go to?
Nov 06 12:27:53 <freakout> (answer expected tomorrow...)
Nov 06 13:55:17 <amiroo> is this working?
Nov 06 13:55:30 <bpadalino> looks like it
Nov 06 13:55:36 <amiroo> cool thx
Nov 06 13:58:33 <amiroo> anyone here who can help me with directvnc on palm pre?
Nov 06 14:04:42 <amiroo> ok. anyone who knows where i can get help with that?
Nov 06 14:06:10 <amiroo> who wrote this article? http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/VNC_%28Virtual_Network_Computing%29#Demos:
Nov 06 14:11:35 <amiroo> ok 119 users and i don't see a thing. I'm wondering if this works at all
Nov 06 14:14:36 <FreeTim3> Hopspitfire wrote it methinks
Nov 06 14:15:38 <FreeTim3> Did you get it working?
Nov 06 14:16:51 <FreeTim3> but even if you get it working there'd be no mouse control, so not entirely useful
Nov 06 14:17:04 <amiroo> hey finally an answer ;-)
Nov 06 14:17:14 <amiroo> i established a connection
Nov 06 14:17:21 <amiroo> but nothing happens next
Nov 06 14:17:27 <amiroo> no screen.
Nov 06 14:17:38 <amiroo> i started it in terminal. do you know if this is right?
Nov 06 14:17:52 <FreeTim3> and you moved the mouse other otherwise changed the screen contents
Nov 06 14:18:40 <FreeTim3> the directions seem to say start in terminal, yes
Nov 06 14:18:49 <amiroo> hmm weired
Nov 06 14:19:16 <FreeTim3> move the mouse all around the computer screen (note the NOTE)
Nov 06 14:19:50 <amiroo> k
Nov 06 14:19:55 <amiroo> let me try again. brb
Nov 06 14:20:13 <FreeTim3> Nebula might have more experience with it too... he's usually in #webosboston channel but not on, right now
Nov 06 14:20:29 <amiroo> oh thanx.
Nov 06 14:20:39 <amiroo> did you get it working?
Nov 06 14:48:50 <FreeTim3> Finally working... I'll go and improve the wiki slightly
Nov 06 14:53:03 <amiroo> you got it working? really?
Nov 06 15:06:28 <FreeTim3> we should probably add more to that page, about the Wifi IP address how to find, and a small mention of windows firewalls to round out the pie
Nov 06 15:06:58 <FreeTim3> I can't do it right now I'm at work... will add myself a task to update wiki later tonight
Nov 06 15:10:52 <sKunk> so..is there no deluser command for busybox?
Nov 06 15:12:31 <freakout> FreeTim3: what were you workin on?
Nov 06 15:15:40 <sKunk> or in other words, how do I get rid of an account i created lol
Nov 06 15:26:36 <Parismessios3> hello
Nov 06 15:26:37 <FreeTim3> amiroo was working on VNC on the pre
Nov 06 15:26:54 <Parismessios3> is there anyone who can help me with metadoctor?
Nov 06 15:27:28 <FreeTim3> freakout: myself I was working on yet another gps program (for racing.)
Nov 06 15:27:55 <Parismessios3> I want to active the pre gsm with wifi instead of bypassing the activation page
Nov 06 15:28:00 <Parismessios3> is there any way?
Nov 06 15:30:17 <Parismessios3> anyone?
Nov 06 15:37:14 <dBsooner-work> egaudet: ping
Nov 06 15:38:46 <elpollodiablo> hello anyone there?
Nov 06 15:40:44 <dBsooner-work> elpollodiablo: we are all always in and out, just ask your question and whne someone is available, they will answer. ;)
Nov 06 15:42:19 <elpollodiablo> Well I dont have one specific questoin more of a bunch of ideas and wondering what areas of the Pre people are looking into and what is being worked on by who.
Nov 06 15:43:05 <dBsooner-work> We all work on a bunch of areas. Different people specialize in different things.
Nov 06 15:43:40 <dBsooner-work> What are some of your ideas in particular?
Nov 06 15:43:51 <elpollodiablo> My main reason for getting the Pre was becasue it is linux based. my computer are exclusivley linux. so I want to use the linux base of the pre to its fullest.
Nov 06 15:44:41 <elpollodiablo> are there still people looking into Pre security?
Nov 06 15:45:47 <elpollodiablo> Has anyone been able to port scan their pre?
Nov 06 15:48:13 <elpollodiablo> I have tried a number of ways to run a portscan of the pre, I have tried through WIFI ip as well as the EVDO Ip address, but it does not return anything
Nov 06 15:51:06 <elpollodiablo> I have tried scanning using Netcat from the Pre, as well as from another computer on the same network. I have used gnome network tools to portscan the pre. None of these attemps returned anything
Nov 06 15:53:05 <elpollodiablo> another question, does anyone know the Master Subsidy Lock code?
Nov 06 16:01:36 <elpollodiablo> while browsing through the ##DATA#  area I saw in the browser section that is has primary NGG and secondary NGG. Are these basically the sprint proxy servers for internet?
Nov 06 16:14:16 <gkatsev> PuffTheMagic: damn, you changed your nick too fast. i wanted to make a joke about you having a puffy pre and perhaps needing to get it looked at
Nov 06 16:15:11 <PuffTheMagic> i only switched so i could /ns group it to my main account
Nov 06 16:15:40 <gkatsev> lol
Nov 06 17:51:56 <ice_> hey all. is wIRC open source and on the git repo?
Nov 06 17:53:49 <ice_> Freaking awesome job guys :D
Nov 06 17:58:36 <egaudet_work> ice_ yes
Nov 06 18:01:47 <ice_> eguadet_work: great, I don't see it here though: http://git.webos-internals.org/. I wish I knew about the effort before it was all done, I'd have helped if the help was wanted :p.
Nov 06 18:02:40 <tlp> it's not done :p
Nov 06 18:03:18 <ice_> haha
Nov 06 18:03:21 * ice_ sighs
Nov 06 18:03:55 <egaudet_work> join #wirc
Nov 06 18:06:43 <elpollodiablo> does anyone know the Master Subsidy Lock code or how to get it?
Nov 06 18:07:23 <ice-11> elpollodiablo: I think you have to call and ask sprint for it
Nov 06 18:07:58 <ice-11> elpollodiablo: A pre user made a walkthrough on how to get standalone GPS working on the pre; it requires that you have the MSL
Nov 06 18:08:16 <elpollodiablo> oh alright
Nov 06 18:09:10 * Mousey thinks . o O ( the devil chicken!? )
Nov 06 18:09:25 <elpollodiablo> yes that is correct
Nov 06 18:09:46 <dBsooner-work> Rick_work: ping
Nov 06 18:09:56 <Rick_work> pong
Nov 06 18:10:06 <dBsooner-work> you got BIP setup yet?
Nov 06 18:10:12 <dBsooner-work> or an irc bouncer of any type?
Nov 06 18:10:12 <Rick_work> nope
Nov 06 18:10:19 <Rick_work> busy as hell
Nov 06 18:10:23 <dBsooner-work> ahh
Nov 06 18:10:23 <elpollodiablo> while browsing through the ##DATA#  area I saw in the browser section that is has primary NGG and secondary NGG. Are these basically the sprint proxy servers for internet?
Nov 06 18:10:47 <dBsooner-work> elpollodiablo: kind of.. but EVDO you get a dedicated IP
Nov 06 18:11:17 <dBsooner-work> to which I can actually connect directly to my phone over EVDO
Nov 06 18:12:40 <elpollodiablo> could I set up a proxy server and put that ipaddress as the NGG?
Nov 06 18:14:07 <elpollodiablo> like right now my carrier can basically track everything I go to on the internet. I would perfer them not being able to do that
Nov 06 18:15:28 <gkatsev> ssl tunneling?
Nov 06 18:16:42 <elpollodiablo> well I was thinking more along the lines of proxy servers through tor
Nov 06 18:16:51 <Rick_work> elpollodiablo  your carrier can do it no matter what you do
Nov 06 18:17:00 <gkatsev> ssl tunneling, if possible, will probably be faster
Nov 06 18:17:14 <dBsooner-work> elpollodiablo: your carrier can tell what your doing at all times, regardless of efforts.
Nov 06 18:17:25 <elpollodiablo> why is that?
Nov 06 18:17:27 <dBsooner-work> The only way to POSSIBLY *mask* it would to use SSL tunnteling
Nov 06 18:17:29 <Rick_work> your data packets have to transit your carrier's cell network,  and then hit a router to get out of the data carrier's network, and they KNOW which phone those packets came from.
Nov 06 18:17:39 <dBsooner-work> just as Rick_work just said
Nov 06 18:17:48 <Rick_work> it's exactly as if you used my wifi router.
Nov 06 18:17:48 <dBsooner-work> your packets have to travel over their cell network first and be translated
Nov 06 18:17:58 <Rick_work> I have a tap between my wifi router and my cable modem.
Nov 06 18:18:11 <Rick_work> EVERY packet that goes across my wifi is inspectable by my tap.
Nov 06 18:18:33 <Rick_work> ditto them.
Nov 06 18:18:51 <Rick_work> you can ENCRYPT your packets,  but they have to have from-to headers to transit the IP network.
Nov 06 18:19:09 <elpollodiablo> yes I know that
Nov 06 18:19:09 <Rick_work> and they aren't even IP packets till after they get off the cell tower to a carrier's router.
Nov 06 18:19:29 <Rick_work> well then,  I don't understand what you're asking.  The carrier knows.  how can they not?
Nov 06 18:19:45 <elpollodiablo> so like if I sshed to a computer from my phone they will know where it is going to but not what is being transfered
Nov 06 18:19:46 <ice-11> guys, just use ssh tunneling
Nov 06 18:19:52 <gkatsev> would it be possible to create an ssl tunnel on the pre?
Nov 06 18:19:53 <ice-11> combine that with tsocks, that should work
Nov 06 18:19:58 <ice-11> lol yea
Nov 06 18:20:02 <ice-11> you have the command ssh
Nov 06 18:20:27 <elpollodiablo> have you ever used tor?
Nov 06 18:20:37 <gkatsev> ice-11: yeah, lol. but they could technically be doing other crap as well, perhaps, no?
Nov 06 18:20:38 <Rick_work> ice-11  yeah,  I do that.  (it's how I tether the phone)
Nov 06 18:20:48 <ice-11> yea, but i prefer ssh tunneling.
Nov 06 18:21:02 <ice-11> Rick_work: I think USB is a little more secure :p
Nov 06 18:21:10 <gkatsev> BT?
Nov 06 18:21:25 <ice-11> gkatsev: of course they could
Nov 06 18:21:27 <elpollodiablo> it is more secure but if I am not next to the computer I can USB
Nov 06 18:21:45 <ice-11> gkatsev: but it doesn't matter, all they will see is where in the internets you're connecting to via SSH
Nov 06 18:21:59 <ice-11> nothing else
Nov 06 18:22:07 <ice-11> and it will all look like SSH traffic
Nov 06 18:22:18 <gkatsev> ice-11: ok, i assumed that, just wasnt sure.
Nov 06 18:22:20 <ice-11> not crackable with all the computing power in the world(?) for ... awhile
Nov 06 18:22:34 <Rick_work> ice-11  USB isn't always what I need.  And if I use USBnet on the computer I loose the ability to use novacom to do development work,  I can wifi to the pre and tunnel out and still get dev work done.
Nov 06 18:23:11 <ice-11> Rick_work: good point, I haven't yet started dev work on the pre... i've been looking for a good project to work on.
Nov 06 18:24:29 <elpollodiablo> so there is no way to anonymous browsing on the pre?
Nov 06 18:25:01 <ice-11> of course not. *all* of your data goes through your carrier.
Nov 06 18:25:02 <elpollodiablo> or encrypted
Nov 06 18:25:14 <ice-11> unless you use a secure proxy, they see all except for encrypted traffic
Nov 06 18:25:26 <dBsooner-work> elpollodiablo: no matter how your on the internet, all traffic is inspectible by your IP
Nov 06 18:25:28 <ice-11> like https, they can't see that. unless they use a MITM attack...
Nov 06 18:25:32 <dBsooner-work> s/IP/ISP/
Nov 06 18:25:32 <infobot> dBsooner-work meant: elpollodiablo: no matter how your on the internet, all traffic is inspectible by your ISP
Nov 06 18:25:52 <ice-11> lmao: s/IP/ISP
Nov 06 18:26:02 <ice-11> i've never seen someone make a search pattern fix
Nov 06 18:26:05 <elpollodiablo> if it is encrypted it does not matter if they intercept it
Nov 06 18:26:09 <elpollodiablo> they have no idea waht it is
Nov 06 18:26:12 <ice-11> i need to hang out in IRC more
Nov 06 18:26:20 <ice-11> exactly
Nov 06 18:26:24 <dBsooner-work> ice-11: even with encrypted traffic, the header information is still unencrypted, so the ISP would see all the traffic flowing to one given ip/port
Nov 06 18:26:42 <dBsooner-work> I have seen ISP's/Carrier's block certain IP's because of heavy traffic.
Nov 06 18:26:52 <elpollodiablo> they will see where it came from and where it is going
Nov 06 18:27:16 <elpollodiablo> but if I use a proxy it will look like the data is coming from the proxy and going to me, but they dont know what the data is
Nov 06 18:27:32 <elpollodiablo> or ssh tunneling
Nov 06 18:28:10 <dBsooner-work> elpollodiablo: right.. but if they are smart, like most carriers/isps, their packet sniffers throw up a red flag if one IP is taking a lot of hits
Nov 06 18:28:22 <elpollodiablo> well
Nov 06 18:28:31 <elpollodiablo> that is why you use tor/privoxy
Nov 06 18:28:42 <elpollodiablo> which changes the ip ever so often
Nov 06 18:28:51 <ice-11> dBsooner-work: that doesn't matter though, all they would know is you're talking to this one server, a lot.
Nov 06 18:28:52 <dBsooner-work> like i'll set a routine that if over XXXXXXXXX packets are destined for this IP off my network in a given amount of time, flag that info for inspection.
Nov 06 18:29:07 <dBsooner-work> ice-11: which raises a red flag.
Nov 06 18:29:39 <ice-11> dBsooner-work: indeed. but that's better than being obvious, no? :p
Nov 06 18:29:49 <dBsooner-work> just WiFi wherever you are and carrier won't see a thing
Nov 06 18:29:50 <dBsooner-work> ;)
Nov 06 18:30:08 <elpollodiablo> I am not talking about doing this all the time
Nov 06 18:30:21 <dBsooner-work> just till you get that torrent you want?
Nov 06 18:30:25 <elpollodiablo> I am just talking about when I need to do something encrypted or anonymously
Nov 06 18:30:44 <dBsooner-work> I can't think of a reason to hide my usage that much.
Nov 06 18:30:53 <dBsooner-work> In fact, I can't think of a reason to hide usage at all.
Nov 06 18:31:09 <ice-11> haha
Nov 06 18:31:19 <ice-11> i had one reason back in the day, years ago, in highschool
Nov 06 18:31:27 <ice-11> to get around the school proxy :p
Nov 06 18:31:28 <dBsooner-work> there is always taht
Nov 06 18:31:28 <dBsooner-work> ;)
Nov 06 18:31:32 <elpollodiablo> not wanting to be tracked
Nov 06 18:31:39 <ice-11> outgoing ports 80 and 443 were opened.
Nov 06 18:31:41 <elpollodiablo> or watched
Nov 06 18:31:42 <ice-11> woot
Nov 06 18:31:51 <ice-11> yea, but you're tracked regardless
Nov 06 18:31:53 <dBsooner-work> Again, I can't think of a reason why I would care if I was being tracked.
Nov 06 18:32:06 <ice-11> elpollodiablo: you do know palm uploads info about you all the time right?
Nov 06 18:32:06 <dBsooner-work> and you're going to be watched regardless... ice-11 beat  me to it.
Nov 06 18:32:11 <gkatsev> dBsooner-work: banking?
Nov 06 18:32:11 <elpollodiablo> privacy
Nov 06 18:32:23 <dBsooner-work> gkatsev: SSL encryption on the bank site
Nov 06 18:32:37 <dBsooner-work> all the Carrier see is traffic destined to Port 443 on the ip
Nov 06 18:32:38 <ice-11> jinx dbSooner-work: you owe me a coke
Nov 06 18:32:54 <gkatsev> dBsooner-work: if theyve done it correctly. there are, unfortunately, banking sites that do not use ssl...
Nov 06 18:33:08 * dBsooner-work would NEVER bank on non SSL sites
Nov 06 18:33:12 <elpollodiablo> if your banking site does not use ssl dont use it
Nov 06 18:33:16 * dBsooner-work shuns all banks without ssl.
Nov 06 18:33:37 * dBsooner-work doesn't do ANYTHING involved identity/money without it being SSL.
Nov 06 18:33:48 <gkatsev> dBsooner-work: yeah, same...
Nov 06 18:33:49 <dBsooner-work> And from a root cert authority verifiable cert.
Nov 06 18:33:52 <ice-11> hahahaha, really? i can't believe a banking site would omit SSL... it's the industry standard...
Nov 06 18:34:00 <ice-11> exactly
Nov 06 18:34:20 <dBsooner-work> So again, I raise the question of what could there really be out there to cause you to not want to be "tracked"?
Nov 06 18:34:25 <gkatsev> ice-11: there are several banks that their password is capped at 8 chars. as in, it ignored anything thats after 8 chars
Nov 06 18:34:30 <dBsooner-work> Any reason I can think of would be "illegal".
Nov 06 18:34:58 <gkatsev> dBsooner-work: ph34r of the man
Nov 06 18:35:05 <elpollodiablo> lol
Nov 06 18:35:14 <elpollodiablo> no there are alot more reasons then just illegal
Nov 06 18:35:24 <elpollodiablo> it is called invation of privacy
Nov 06 18:35:45 <gkatsev> elpollodiablo: it isnt... unfortunately.
Nov 06 18:35:57 <dBsooner-work> elpollodiablo: that is not correct sir.
Nov 06 18:36:01 <ice-11> hahahahaha
Nov 06 18:36:08 <dBsooner-work> elpollodiablo: You are using THEIR service.
Nov 06 18:36:09 <elpollodiablo> just because by law it isnt does not mean it isnt
Nov 06 18:36:18 <dBsooner-work> They have every right to know what is going on THEIR network that THEY own.
Nov 06 18:36:50 <elpollodiablo> so then basically everyone should be tracked by the gov
Nov 06 18:36:52 <dBsooner-work> invasion of privacy would be "ISP reads your email"
Nov 06 18:36:55 <elpollodiablo> because you are using their what ever
Nov 06 18:36:58 <elpollodiablo> their roads
Nov 06 18:37:00 <dBsooner-work> not "ISP looks at where you are travelling"
Nov 06 18:37:27 <ice-11> elpollodiablo: what makes you think you aren't tracked? :p
Nov 06 18:37:31 <dBsooner-work> elpollodiablo: negative. I don't pay to use the roads. ;)
Nov 06 18:37:37 <elpollodiablo> also I dont want other people being able to get my info
Nov 06 18:37:44 <elpollodiablo> taxes
Nov 06 18:37:47 <elpollodiablo> you do
Nov 06 18:37:55 <dBsooner-work> elpollodiablo: lol.. hide in a bunker and don't use the internet.
Nov 06 18:38:18 <elpollodiablo> no I am just trying to find the most secure un tracked way to do things
Nov 06 18:38:32 <dBsooner-work> elpollodiablo: IF you find one, let me know.
Nov 06 18:38:40 <elpollodiablo> that is why I am asking these questions
Nov 06 18:38:44 <dBsooner-work> elpollodiablo: I doubt you will though. you will be tracked, regardless. ;)
Nov 06 18:39:10 <dBsooner-work> whether or not they do anything with that info, don't know. But they do know what your phone is doing on the network.
Nov 06 18:39:43 <elpollodiablo> yes they do
Nov 06 18:39:47 <elpollodiablo> I want to limit the amount they know
Nov 06 18:39:54 <dBsooner-work> There you go.
Nov 06 18:39:58 <dBsooner-work> Then ssh tunnel
Nov 06 18:40:00 <elpollodiablo> I do
Nov 06 18:40:09 <dBsooner-work> that's all there really is
Nov 06 18:40:36 <elpollodiablo> why wouldnt anonymous secure proxys work?
Nov 06 18:41:19 <elpollodiablo> they will always see where it is going and coming but they wont know what is coming and going
Nov 06 18:41:40 <elpollodiablo> and I am fine with that
Nov 06 18:41:53 <ice-11> there really is only _one_ thing you can do. SSH tunneling. They'll see where your traffic is headed (your server on the internet) but that is all. and they'll probably start watching you at that point if they have the infrastructure
Nov 06 18:43:12 <elpollodiablo> there are otehr ways that is the most obvious one
Nov 06 18:43:45 <elpollodiablo> I will look more into this to see what I can find
Nov 06 18:44:25 <elpollodiablo> has anyone ever been able to do a portscan on the pre?
Nov 06 18:44:50 <ice-11> yes, and the results are posted on the webos-internals wiki
Nov 06 18:45:02 <elpollodiablo> where? I have not been able to find it
Nov 06 18:45:11 <elpollodiablo> and have not been able to do my own scan either
Nov 06 18:45:14 <ice-11> i think... i'll check
Nov 06 18:45:26 <ice-11> umm... tether, and scan
Nov 06 18:46:43 <Mousey> wee! http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2009/11/04/#20091104-android_mythbusters
Nov 06 18:46:50 <Mousey> take that android!
Nov 06 18:46:54 * Mousey huggles him some WebOS
Nov 06 18:48:16 <elpollodiablo> I still cant find anything about portscans
Nov 06 18:48:50 <gkatsev> Mousey: and webos doesnt do all that?
Nov 06 18:49:08 <ice-11> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Research
Nov 06 18:49:11 <Mousey> gkatsev: well upstart... but there's way more userspace tool =)
Nov 06 18:49:13 <ice-11> I can't remember either
Nov 06 18:49:52 <Mousey> s/tool/tools/
Nov 06 18:49:53 <infobot> Mousey meant: gkatsev: well upstart... but there's way more userspace tools =)
Nov 06 18:51:38 <elpollodiablo> in the security section it talks about outbound ports but does not talk about how they found those
Nov 06 18:55:56 <ice-11> ah, well just enable USBNet, plug in your phone and scan it with your favorite tool....
Nov 06 18:57:54 <elpollodiablo> I have tried doing it over Wifi, and over edvo
Nov 06 18:58:19 <elpollodiablo> I have even tried doing a scan of the Pre from itsself
Nov 06 18:58:40 <ice-11> What?!
Nov 06 18:58:41 <ice-11> dude.
Nov 06 18:58:43 <elpollodiablo> I didnt recieve and anything
Nov 06 18:58:51 <ice-11> netstat -nap | grep "LISTEN "
Nov 06 18:58:58 <ice-11> run that from ANY linux shell...
Nov 06 18:59:11 <ice-11> don't freakin port scan EVDO
Nov 06 18:59:13 <ice-11> lol
Nov 06 18:59:33 <elpollodiablo> that is actually a more realistic scan though
Nov 06 18:59:43 <elpollodiablo> then scanning localhost
Nov 06 19:00:43 <elpollodiablo> I did netstat before
Nov 06 19:01:33 <sugardave> what is that you are looking for?
Nov 06 19:01:49 <elpollodiablo> what ports are open from the outside
Nov 06 19:02:05 <elpollodiablo> like if I am connected to Wifi or EDVO
Nov 06 19:02:14 <elpollodiablo> what ports are open for people to access
Nov 06 19:02:34 * sugardave can't believe that hasn't been put on a wiki somewhere.
Nov 06 19:02:43 <ice-11> well unless the kernel's root-kitted i think netstat will be alright
Nov 06 19:03:28 <elpollodiablo> I was not sure if sprint blocked certain ports
Nov 06 19:04:01 <elpollodiablo> that is why I wanted to do a scan on the pre locally and over edvo and Wifi
Nov 06 19:05:07 <elpollodiablo> that way I could find out the blocked ports
Nov 06 19:07:35 <ice-11> well i can tell you for sure that Bell Mobility blocks ports
Nov 06 19:07:44 <ice-11> i didn't scan so i don't know if all are blocked
Nov 06 19:08:07 <elpollodiablo> oh alright
Nov 06 19:08:43 <elpollodiablo> well if you ever figure out what ports are block you think you could inform us?
Nov 06 19:12:27 <ice-11> I can't. I'm on the Bell network, not Sprint. If i ever do decide to check, I'll post it to the wiki though
Nov 06 19:13:46 <elpollodiablo> thanks
Nov 06 19:29:12 <elpollodiablo1> what is the best way to access linux through the Pre interface?
Nov 06 19:31:11 <ice-11> <ice-11> The button Add New Server should be "Done" or something. :p
Nov 06 19:31:17 <ice-11> oops lol
Nov 06 19:31:21 <ice-11> wrong paste buffer!
Nov 06 19:31:33 <ice-11> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Accessing_Linux
Nov 06 19:31:34 <ice-11> there
Nov 06 19:32:01 <elpollodiablo1> already rooted my pre
Nov 06 19:32:33 <ice-11> check next steps
Nov 06 19:32:36 <ice-11> then install the terminal app
Nov 06 19:32:36 <elpollodiablo1> I know all that but I dont want to have to use another computer to get access to the os on my phone
Nov 06 19:32:43 <ice-11> and plugin
Nov 06 19:33:10 <elpollodiablo1> so as of right now that terminal plug in is the only way?
Nov 06 19:34:58 <sugardave> yes
Nov 06 19:36:15 <elpollodiablo1> alright cool
Nov 06 19:39:50 <mikewx> anyone here involved with the "webos school" thing?
Nov 06 19:54:05 <elpollodiablo1> I have an idea, I am sure it is possible, just not quite sure of how to do it. is there away to make real time changes to patches and apply them through the Pre UI?
Nov 06 19:55:10 <elpollodiablo1> I was thinking about an app that would making some of the Patches more customizable, as it allow the user to change certain variables. through the Pre UI
Nov 06 19:56:35 <dBsooner-work> That would be cool. We have discussed it before, but no one has taken the time to develop something.
Nov 06 19:56:47 <elpollodiablo1> like changing the snooze lengthes through the UI to what ever they choose, or allowing to easily turn swtich between a partch being on or off. I know this is kind of similar to what preware does
Nov 06 19:57:24 <dBsooner-work> preware installs/uninstalls patches for "on and off"
Nov 06 19:57:40 <elpollodiablo1> yeah I know
Nov 06 19:57:54 <dBsooner-work> but actually creating an evironment variable to set "on/off" for a patch so it can go through an if routine or something..
Nov 06 19:58:07 <dBsooner-work> would rely on both the patch and the UI customizer
Nov 06 19:58:12 <dBsooner-work> which would be cool
Nov 06 19:58:27 <mikewx> I still need one of you genius' to figure out how to activate the security app only when not in range of one of a predefined list of wifi spots
Nov 06 19:58:29 <elpollodiablo1> that is what I was thinking, but it would take a lot of planning
Nov 06 19:58:39 <dBsooner-work> yep
Nov 06 19:59:03 <dBsooner-work> Ideas are great, but mean nothing without planning and someone to develop it.
Nov 06 19:59:21 <dBsooner-work> My next huge task is getting a true "patch gallery" setup
Nov 06 19:59:44 <elpollodiablo1> very true, I was not sure if WesOS internals was planing or thought about something like that
Nov 06 20:00:03 <dBsooner-work> Which I know Precentral is going to be the place for this. I have a meeting with Dieter (owner of SmartPhoneExperts which owns Precentral.net) today to discuss me becoming the admin/developer/admin of it.
Nov 06 20:00:37 <elpollodiablo1> oh cool
Nov 06 20:00:49 <elpollodiablo1> that is pretty sweet
Nov 06 20:01:12 <dBsooner-work> It will be very similar to the current Theme/App gallery they have.
Nov 06 20:01:20 <dBsooner-work> But will incorporate my upload scripts.
Nov 06 20:01:33 <dBsooner-work> Again, I don't know exactly the details as I haven't had the meeting yet.
Nov 06 20:02:47 <elpollodiablo1> are you saying this is going to be apart of the Pre or on Precentral?
Nov 06 20:03:55 <dBsooner-work> Precentral.net
Nov 06 20:04:09 <dBsooner-work> A place for devs to upload and maintain their own patches
Nov 06 20:04:25 <elpollodiablo1> oh alright, that would be helpful
Nov 06 20:05:53 <elpollodiablo1> something like SourceForge.net would be nice for patches
Nov 06 20:08:55 <PuffTheMagic> sourceforge and other sites require that code run on Free OS's usually
Nov 06 20:09:30 <elpollodiablo1> update us on the progress you have with this patch gallery
Nov 06 20:10:18 <dBsooner-work> elpollodiablo1: Of course.. we (WebOS-Internals) want to have our hands in as much of it as possible.
Nov 06 20:10:31 <dBsooner-work> so of course everyone hear should know about it as it comes available.
Nov 06 20:22:23 <egaudet_work> something like choosing snooze lengths would never be a run-time dynamic patch thing
Nov 06 20:22:51 <egaudet_work> the patch should insert that user preference capability
Nov 06 20:23:27 <elpollodiablo1> I dont mean the snooze time length at that moment but allow the person to set 7min snooze instead of 5 min in the snooze list
Nov 06 20:24:09 <egaudet_work> that's kind of iffy
Nov 06 20:24:17 <elpollodiablo1> why is that?
Nov 06 20:25:16 <egaudet_work> to allow a patch to change based on user input makes the patch no longer secure and opens it up to malicious social engineering
Nov 06 20:26:14 <elpollodiablo1> yes and not, why would the person maliciously set their own pre?
Nov 06 20:26:37 <elpollodiablo1> not=no
Nov 06 20:26:44 <egaudet_work> ???
Nov 06 20:27:07 <elpollodiablo1> people can change patches before they apply them
Nov 06 20:27:12 <egaudet_work> it opens the door for hidden backdoors in the script for social engineering into tricking a user to enter something that SEEMS innocent and offers functionality, but does some serious damage
Nov 06 20:27:32 <egaudet_work> elpollodiablo1, they cannot do that with preware or modify things in the trusted feeds
Nov 06 20:27:36 <egaudet_work> webos-patches feed
Nov 06 20:27:52 <elpollodiablo1> but how would allowing them to change a patch in real time of applying them cause a bigger security hole then changing them before hand?
Nov 06 20:28:06 <egaudet_work> they CANT change them before hand...
Nov 06 20:28:14 <egaudet_work> there is no way to use our infrastructure to do that
Nov 06 20:28:21 <elpollodiablo1> I can download any patch and change it then apply it
Nov 06 20:28:27 <egaudet_work> not with preware you can't
Nov 06 20:28:39 <egaudet_work> we can only control what we control
Nov 06 20:28:45 <elpollodiablo1> true
Nov 06 20:28:54 <elpollodiablo1> I dont use preware I like doing everything by hand
Nov 06 20:28:57 <egaudet_work> you can do ANYTHING you want to your pre, but we take security very serious in what we offer
Nov 06 20:29:09 <elpollodiablo1> jsut to make sure I know the code that goes into my pre
Nov 06 20:29:17 <egaudet_work> take a look at that iphone hack recently :P
Nov 06 20:29:35 <elpollodiablo1> yeah I understand I am all about security too
Nov 06 20:29:48 <elpollodiablo1> obviouslly you were not around for my previous discussion
Nov 06 20:29:50 <egaudet_work> elpollodiablo1, exactly.  Any scripts, services etc... that are hosted on our feeds are open source.  Preware, by design, allows you to view the script before exucting it
Nov 06 20:30:53 <elpollodiablo1> there has to be a secure away to allow user customizability through the UI
Nov 06 20:30:53 <egaudet_work> elpollodiablo1, you suggested a mechanism to allow users to modify a patch via preware before applying it. That can be a pretty huge security hole
Nov 06 20:31:15 <elpollodiablo1> not exactly before but once it is on their pre they can chagne it
Nov 06 20:31:30 <egaudet_work> once what is on their pre?
Nov 06 20:31:56 <elpollodiablo1> one the patch is on the pre
Nov 06 20:32:03 <egaudet_work> then do what with it?  Modify it?
Nov 06 20:32:11 <elpollodiablo1> yeah
Nov 06 20:32:46 <egaudet_work> and how is that any different than modifying it before applying?  That means allowing them to modify root filesystem files directly, another huge security hole?
Nov 06 20:33:05 <elpollodiablo1> or have the patch set up with a variable which is able to be set and configured or left to the default values.
Nov 06 20:33:31 <elpollodiablo1> you dont think the terminal app allows them to change root filesystems?
Nov 06 20:33:58 <egaudet_work> that's a lot different
Nov 06 20:34:24 <elpollodiablo1> how?
Nov 06 20:34:31 <egaudet_work> having a patch set up with a variable, and work with preware means preware needs a GENERIC way to modify the script, because it doesn't know specifics ahead of time
Nov 06 20:35:38 <egaudet_work> elpollodiablo1, how is terminal different?  It's a linux terminal, it's not a mojo app/UI
Nov 06 20:36:12 <elpollodiablo1> yeah but through the terminal you can change any thing you want on the Pre
Nov 06 20:37:06 <egaudet_work> yea and?
Nov 06 20:37:18 <egaudet_work> I'm not talking about prohibiting users from doing whatever they want
Nov 06 20:37:36 <egaudet_work> I'm talking about backdoor security holes, that open up things to accidental or malicious attacks
Nov 06 20:37:41 <elpollodiablo1> how is that any different then changing a variable through an app/UI
Nov 06 20:37:44 <egaudet_work> :sigh:
Nov 06 20:38:07 <elpollodiablo1> maybe we are not on the same page
Nov 06 20:39:01 <egaudet_work> apparently not
Nov 06 20:39:07 <ice-11> or in the same book
Nov 06 20:39:16 <egaudet_work> lol
Nov 06 20:39:31 <ice-11> :p
Nov 06 20:39:45 <elpollodiablo1> I am saying maybe there will need to be some kind of speficic patch framework to allow this to be more secure like a check to where they can not run any malicious code they want
Nov 06 20:40:02 <egaudet_work> elpollodiablo1, how would you do that?
Nov 06 20:40:09 <elpollodiablo1> where it only allows the input of nubmbers
Nov 06 20:40:15 <elpollodiablo1> numbers*
Nov 06 20:40:39 <elpollodiablo1> or only a certain number of characters
Nov 06 20:40:55 <egaudet_work> there are still clever ways to use these inputs that are not easy to see
Nov 06 20:41:09 <egaudet_work> you are talking about creating a GENERIC way for preware to modify a shell script
Nov 06 20:41:10 <elpollodiablo1> or if the variable requires a specific input format
Nov 06 20:41:28 <elpollodiablo1> I dont know if preware will modify the patch
Nov 06 20:41:43 <egaudet_work> preware has to modify the patch, the script or the root filesystem
Nov 06 20:41:44 <elpollodiablo1> or have the patches set to where a variable could be passed
Nov 06 20:41:52 <egaudet_work> that's the ONLY way to change anything from a patching point of view dynamically
Nov 06 20:41:56 <egaudet_work> once again
Nov 06 20:42:07 <ice-11> elpollodiablo1: go get the source to preware and read it if you care
Nov 06 20:42:10 <egaudet_work> a patch is a diff of text files
Nov 06 20:42:28 <elpollodiablo1> I know
Nov 06 20:42:32 <egaudet_work> if you come up with the logic I'm all ears
Nov 06 20:42:55 <egaudet_work> but you are speaking so generically that it may sound good on the surface
Nov 06 20:42:57 <elpollodiablo1> that is what I am trying to figure out right now. that is why I brought it up with people here
Nov 06 20:43:23 <egaudet_work> so which of the 3?  preware modifies patch, script or root files?
Nov 06 20:43:30 <elpollodiablo1> everyone here has more knowledge about the innerworking of pre then I do.
Nov 06 20:43:49 <elpollodiablo1> have not quiet firgued that out, I just thought of the idea like a few hours ago.
Nov 06 20:43:59 <elpollodiablo1> I have not had any time to look into the best way of implementing it
Nov 06 20:44:04 <egaudet_work> it's not really about the inner workings of the pre at this point, it's just linux
Nov 06 20:44:58 <egaudet_work> I'm just not sure the security aspects are worth it to accomplish something that could probably be done by the patch itself in 99% of caes
Nov 06 20:45:00 <egaudet_work> cases*
Nov 06 20:46:56 <elpollodiablo1> It does not bother me I can edit all the files I need through the terminal, but I figured the not so tech savy would have no way of doing this and they would stop asking for little patch changes or updates that they might beable to do their selves
Nov 06 20:47:38 <egaudet_work> elpollodiablo1, that's the point.  The users that would be most effected by a security hole are the ones that don't know exactly what they are doing and just blindly following instructions
Nov 06 20:48:18 <elpollodiablo1> that is true
Nov 06 20:49:21 <elpollodiablo1> question
Nov 06 20:49:36 <egaudet_work> And in order for it be part of Preware it would have to be a generic thing, in which the simplest and most restrictive being a numbers only and inserting it into a variable in the patch or shell script.  Even then, the shell script/patch will have to use this variable.  Since this variable is not pre-defined, it makes security reviews harder as you have to think of every single possible way a user could (and will) enter in something and how 
Nov 06 20:49:49 <egaudet_work> then when you get outside of numbers things get even worse
Nov 06 20:50:01 <elpollodiablo1> where are you worried about there being the biggest security hole?
Nov 06 20:50:23 <egaudet_work> using the user entered data
Nov 06 20:50:59 <egaudet_work> someone has to use it
Nov 06 20:53:24 <elpollodiablo1> isnt that what php and server side pages do?
Nov 06 20:53:42 <elpollodiablo1> I know the file structure is set to a specific directory
Nov 06 20:54:48 <elpollodiablo1> couldnt it force it to be written in a specific folder or file using permissions?
Nov 06 20:56:37 <elpollodiablo1> instead of writing it as root write to the files as another user
Nov 06 20:57:18 <egaudet_work> I don't know about server side stuff making it into preware, that's another discussion too
Nov 06 20:57:38 <egaudet_work> patches need to be installed by root
Nov 06 20:57:53 <egaudet_work> since all of palm's files are in root fileystem
Nov 06 20:58:00 <egaudet_work> with root privs
Nov 06 20:58:04 <egaudet_work> perms
Nov 06 20:59:26 <elpollodiablo1> hmmm
Nov 06 21:00:01 <egaudet_work> and a patch can touch any text file on the system
Nov 06 21:00:13 <elpollodiablo1> I am sure there is a way to do this, it might not be easy and if that is the case might not be worth it.
Nov 06 21:00:55 <elpollodiablo1> but it is helpful getting ideas and what will and will not work from other people
Nov 06 21:02:58 <elpollodiablo1> I just think the idea of a highly customizable phone is the best way for the pre to go.
Nov 06 21:03:55 <egaudet_work> Keep in mind Preware is a package installer gui
Nov 06 21:04:14 <elpollodiablo1> yeah I know
Nov 06 21:04:31 <elpollodiablo1> is there away to do this other then through preware?
Nov 06 21:04:58 <elpollodiablo1> like another app once preware installs it?
Nov 06 21:05:46 <elpollodiablo1> or one it downloads the patch then this app makes the changes?
Nov 06 21:05:55 <egaudet_work> Anyone can write an app
Nov 06 21:05:55 <elpollodiablo1> just throwing out ideas
Nov 06 21:06:12 <egaudet_work> patches are packaged.  Once they are installed, the modifications are in
Nov 06 21:06:31 <egaudet_work> an app run after or before installation misses the entire procedure, otherwise the process would be insecure
Nov 06 21:06:40 <elpollodiablo1> yeah I know then it would require editing the root filesystem
Nov 06 21:07:00 <egaudet_work> so I'm still not sure what you want to accomplish
Nov 06 21:07:16 <oil> magic
Nov 06 21:08:21 <elpollodiablo1> basically to allow the people to customize the Pre I thought start with customizing patches because those are the best customization the Pre has right now
Nov 06 21:08:35 <egaudet_work> patches are customizing the pre though
Nov 06 21:08:44 <egaudet_work> customizing the customization seems like overkill
Nov 06 21:09:01 <egaudet_work> are there any specific examples of what exactly is your roadblock?
Nov 06 21:09:24 <oil> which reminds me we need a way to do user-input for postinst xD
Nov 06 21:09:38 <egaudet_work> ~kick oil ~punch oil
Nov 06 21:09:39 * infobot kicks oil ~punch oil
Nov 06 21:09:44 <oil> lol
Nov 06 21:09:45 <egaudet_work> ~punch oil
Nov 06 21:09:45 <egaudet_work> ~knockout oil
Nov 06 21:09:46 * infobot lets fly with a wild haymaker which catches oil right on the nose
Nov 06 21:09:48 <oil> ~botsmack
Nov 06 21:09:49 <infobot> OWW!
Nov 06 21:09:59 <elpollodiablo1> lol
Nov 06 21:11:50 <elpollodiablo1> I dont have any examples, but I dont think customizing patches is overkill it is only over kill if you are the one creating the patches becasue you can basically make them how ever you want
Nov 06 21:12:22 * freakout shambles out of bed and into the channel, naked and disheveled.
Nov 06 21:12:27 <egaudet_work> elpollodiablo1, just to be clear I've thought about the same things while designing autopatch.  For instance an opacity patch like in QI for values 0-100, user needs to input value.  However I'm currently of the mind frame that it would be better to come up with a patch that added an opacity slider or something of the like.
Nov 06 21:12:36 <freakout> Oh, sorry.
Nov 06 21:12:40 * freakout grabs pants
Nov 06 21:13:03 <freakout> rwhitby, ping?
Nov 06 21:13:05 <egaudet_work> elpollodiablo1, all patches hosted are MIT open sourced license and anyone is free to copy the patch and add their own customizations and add a new MIT licensed with different parameters
Nov 06 21:13:32 <elpollodiablo1> 90% of the people out there have no idea whatl linux is
Nov 06 21:13:43 <elpollodiablo1> how do you expect them to know how to customize a patch
Nov 06 21:13:59 <egaudet_work> but once again, a patch is itself customizing the Pre by modifying Palm's files.  Dynamic customization of a patch at runtime is overkill because that can just be done in the mojo as a patch
Nov 06 21:14:08 <sugardave> oil: I like magic
Nov 06 21:14:15 <egaudet_work> elpollodiablo1, ???
Nov 06 21:15:06 <egaudet_work> Again, a PATCH should be developed to add user options to the Mojo for whatever task they want.  Rather than develop a method to change the patch
Nov 06 21:15:10 <egaudet_work> take for instance roam only
Nov 06 21:16:02 <elpollodiablo1> well maybe dynamically customizing a patch is not the way to go, maybe using  parts of the patch to allow the person the ability to do a dynamic customization through mojo. basically build a patch on the pre and install it.
Nov 06 21:16:12 <egaudet_work> The patch could originally have been distributed as a hardcoded "turn roam only".  Then you could argue well let the user customize that patch and decide roam only or not at runtime.  Well instead, I argue the patch be created to insert a toggle into the mojo.  (which is how it is btw)
Nov 06 21:16:28 <egaudet_work> elpollodiablo1, I still do not understand what you are trying to solve
Nov 06 21:16:45 <egaudet_work> Fill in the missing information
Nov 06 21:17:00 <egaudet_work> Someone develops a patch that ___________, and they should also develop a way to let the user change ________ about the patch
Nov 06 21:17:16 <elpollodiablo1> very simple case
Nov 06 21:17:19 <egaudet_work> why should that 2nd blank be changing the patch rather than the patch changing the mojo to give the user the option to decide... the user knows mojo
Nov 06 21:18:27 <elpollodiablo1> someone developed a patch that allows for snooze time duration for the calander, and they should also develop away to let the user change the specific snooze times that the developer hardcoded in the patch
Nov 06 21:19:23 <elpollodiablo1> the snooze patch only gives 5min 10min 20min 30 min say some one wants an 8hour snooze time?
Nov 06 21:20:07 <elpollodiablo1> how would they get this other then customizing the patch and resubmitting it to the repository then installing it through preware
Nov 06 21:20:13 <egaudet_work> ok and simple counter argument... the patch developer should modify the patch to allow the user greater control of the snooze times rather than hardcoded values
Nov 06 21:20:32 <egaudet_work> which is my point.  Give the user customizability options INSIDE THE MOJO, not by modifying patches at runtime
Nov 06 21:20:48 <elpollodiablo1> and some one else wants a 21 hour snooze time
Nov 06 21:21:07 <elpollodiablo1> they have to go through the process all over again as the person with the 8 hour snooze time
Nov 06 21:21:13 <egaudet_work> elpollodiablo1, do you understand you are suggesting that a mojo gui allow the user to modify a patch which will then go ahead and modify the mojo gui
Nov 06 21:21:23 <egaudet_work> rather than modifying the mojo gui to allow the user to select how they want the gui to display...
Nov 06 21:22:33 <elpollodiablo1> "the patch developer should modify the patch to allow the user greater control of the snooze times rather than hardcoded values"
Nov 06 21:22:37 <elpollodiablo1> that is perfect
Nov 06 21:23:11 <elpollodiablo1> but the default mojo listselectors and such I dont think are good enough for user customization
Nov 06 21:24:30 <egaudet_work> You haven't convinced me that a generic user-input runtime patch modifying strategy is worth it
Nov 06 21:24:40 <egaudet_work> save the patch developer a little extra by opening up security holes?
Nov 06 21:25:21 <egaudet_work> and nothing marries you to the listselector
Nov 06 21:25:35 <elpollodiablo1> yeah I know that was just an example
Nov 06 21:25:40 <egaudet_work> a developer could create a patch that changes it to slider in 1 minute increments
Nov 06 21:25:48 <egaudet_work> are change it to a text field for complete user control
Nov 06 21:25:49 <egaudet_work> etc...
Nov 06 21:25:52 <elpollodiablo1> yeah I know that
Nov 06 21:25:58 <egaudet_work> THAT is the way to go about it
Nov 06 21:26:02 <elpollodiablo1> and that would work but the user cant change it
Nov 06 21:26:10 <egaudet_work> sure they can lol
Nov 06 21:26:17 <elpollodiablo1> lol ???
Nov 06 21:26:24 <elpollodiablo1> I could change it, you could change it
Nov 06 21:26:32 <egaudet_work> could change what???
Nov 06 21:26:43 <egaudet_work> the patch?
Nov 06 21:26:59 <elpollodiablo1> the values that the patch changes or implements
Nov 06 21:27:07 <Bartman007> I propose a patch is developed that tells the user to learn mojo if they want to customize mojo patches.
Nov 06 21:27:08 <egaudet_work> so what?
Nov 06 21:27:20 <egaudet_work> they can't modify preware to allow them to input change the patch either
Nov 06 21:27:38 <egaudet_work> but you think developers should modify preware to allow THAT rather than the patch developers making a patch that offers better user control?
Nov 06 21:27:49 <egaudet_work> if its something people want, someone will make a patch for it
Nov 06 21:28:44 <elpollodiablo1> possibly but there is no way the developer will beable to come up with all ways a user will want to control it
Nov 06 21:29:33 <egaudet_work> so you want to account for ALL possible ways any patch can ever be customized... in PREWARE, with a GUI?
Nov 06 21:29:51 <elpollodiablo1> does not have to be in Preware
Nov 06 21:29:56 <egaudet_work> anywhere for that matter
Nov 06 21:29:57 <elpollodiablo1> and a gui would be nice
Nov 06 21:30:06 <elpollodiablo1> it is not a small undertaking
Nov 06 21:30:08 <egaudet_work> a gui to change a patch, a patch is a list of text differences
Nov 06 21:30:17 <egaudet_work> so how can the gui know what to change in the patch without knowing the patch
Nov 06 21:30:31 <egaudet_work> and then how can you do this without opening the door for the user to modify anything via the gui
Nov 06 21:31:21 <elpollodiablo1> the gui would know the patch, the patch would have to have indicators
Nov 06 21:31:29 <egaudet_work> Modifying palm root files should never be allowed via a MOJO gui, that's a huge security hole.  Modifying a patch which modifies palm root files is the same thing as modifying the root files...
Nov 06 21:31:35 <egaudet_work> indicators for what?
Nov 06 21:32:22 <egaudet_work> say the patch modifies 5 different list selectors to allow the user to determine 10 different values
Nov 06 21:32:28 <elpollodiablo1> for sections of the patch that do certain things or that can have variabls in it
Nov 06 21:33:39 <elpollodiablo1> this is not a simple throw a app together
Nov 06 21:33:45 <elpollodiablo1> an app*
Nov 06 21:34:23 <elpollodiablo1> why do the files have to be in the root?
Nov 06 21:34:49 <elpollodiablo1> cant there be like a symlink to the files in a non root area?
Nov 06 21:35:03 <egaudet_work> Palm files are in root
Nov 06 21:35:05 <egaudet_work> you modify palm files
Nov 06 21:35:08 <egaudet_work> that's what a patch does
Nov 06 21:35:19 <egaudet_work> what would putting them anywhere else do?
Nov 06 21:35:42 <elpollodiablo1> well that would allow you to edit them as non root files
Nov 06 21:35:50 <egaudet_work> ???
Nov 06 21:35:57 <elpollodiablo1> but I guess they would be run as root
Nov 06 21:36:01 <egaudet_work> you are editting palm files, that is the issue now who you are to edit them
Nov 06 21:36:07 <Abyssul> What is a command in ssh to enable GPS on the Pre?
Nov 06 21:36:39 <egaudet_work> and patches can modify standard linux files as well, for instance conf files in /etc/ etc...
Nov 06 21:36:52 <elpollodiablo1> yeah I know that
Nov 06 21:37:12 <egaudet_work> So moving a file and sym linking it and then editting it doesnt' change anything...
Nov 06 21:37:48 <egaudet_work> not to mention that a lot of patches become obsolete as webos is updated
Nov 06 21:38:03 <elpollodiablo1> that is true
Nov 06 21:38:08 <elpollodiablo1> I have thought about that
Nov 06 21:39:11 <elpollodiablo1> maybe this is not a project to be done right now, but for the furture. when there are better ways of setting variables through the UI
Nov 06 21:39:13 <egaudet_work> it's a risky proposition that would require way too much effort for minimal gain IMO
Nov 06 21:39:57 <elpollodiablo1> and the OS wont come out with new patches ever other month
Nov 06 21:40:13 <elpollodiablo1> patches =upgrades
Nov 06 21:40:43 <Abyssul> Anyone have an solution to my question?
Nov 06 21:42:37 <elpollodiablo1> egaudet_work, it was nice having this conversation with you, covered alot of areas of interest.
Nov 06 21:43:39 <elpollodiablo1> it is time for me to leave
Nov 06 21:44:20 <egaudet_work> don't be a stranger
Nov 06 21:44:22 <egaudet_work> happy hacking
Nov 06 21:44:25 <egaudet_work> and gone
Nov 06 21:44:27 <Abyssul> haha
Nov 06 21:45:30 <Abyssul> egaudet, do you have a answer to my question?
Nov 06 21:48:46 <egaudet_work> nope
Nov 06 21:48:58 <egaudet_work> I don't know about the GPS really
Nov 06 21:51:08 <rwhitby> morning
Nov 06 21:51:51 <egaudet_work> morning
Nov 06 21:51:51 <freakout> rwhitby! quick question. Do you have any trouble accessing the app cat?
Nov 06 21:51:54 <egaudet_work> afternoon
Nov 06 21:51:57 <egaudet_work> good evening
Nov 06 21:52:06 <freakout> I doctored to 1.2.1 (sprint) last night. Haven't had access since.
Nov 06 21:52:13 <freakout> Wonder if there's a global IP checker.
Nov 06 21:53:32 <freakout> (...and morning... ;) )
Nov 06 21:55:21 <rwhitby> freakout: never had any problems with app cat
Nov 06 21:55:42 <freakout> bah! So mine is just being annoying. Cheers.
Nov 06 22:11:45 <rwhitby> freakout: yours took 12 days?  ok, that makes me feel better.  lets hope early next week then.
Nov 06 22:12:06 <freakout> Yep. And the tracking page is useless, you're better off without it anyways
Nov 06 22:12:14 <Abyssul> rwhitby, do you know a SSH command to toggle GPS?
Nov 06 22:12:18 <dBsooner-work> rwhitby: did you copy my "messages" to you in pm?
Nov 06 22:12:22 <freakout> rwhitby: according to tracking it still hasn't arrived in Oz ;)
Nov 06 22:12:29 <Abyssul> Haha
Nov 06 22:12:30 <rwhitby> Abyssul: nope
Nov 06 22:12:34 <Abyssul> Alright t hanks
Nov 06 22:14:50 <freakout> Also, rwhitby, on the hazards of importing: looks like my Touchstone is faulty
Nov 06 22:15:08 <Abyssul> I found the command :D
Nov 06 22:15:09 <freakout> It suffers the "continuous on/off" cycling bug when it charges to 100%
Nov 06 22:15:22 <sugardave> Abyssul: wiki please
Nov 06 22:15:42 <rwhitby> freakout: doh!  I bought one of those (which also hasn't arrived come to think of it) based on your recommendation!
Nov 06 22:15:54 <freakout> lol
Nov 06 22:16:03 <Abyssul> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_webOS_GPS_Tracking
Nov 06 22:16:10 <Abyssul> All the way at the bottom
Nov 06 22:16:14 <egaudet_work> there's a patch to shut up that bug
Nov 06 22:16:17 <sugardave> ah, cool
Nov 06 22:16:18 <freakout> rwhitby: you bought it before I'd used it with an actual Pre. caveat emptor! :p
Nov 06 22:16:23 <egaudet_work> at least workaround for now for you bad touchstoners
Nov 06 22:16:29 <Abyssul> the script is pretty nice lol
Nov 06 22:17:07 <lingfish> Mornink!
Nov 06 22:17:37 <rwhitby> freakout: yeah, mine will work - your is just a lemon
Nov 06 22:17:57 <lingfish> freakout: eXpansys .au (meaning, HK) :)
Nov 06 22:18:37 * rwhitby bbl
Nov 06 22:19:09 <freakout> lingfish: heh. I think it's just a bad unit, not where I got it from.
Nov 06 22:19:26 <freakout> lingfish: there's reports all over the net about faulty touchstones, all NIB
Nov 06 22:19:36 <lingfish> no no, that's where I bought my Pre from
Nov 06 22:19:40 <lingfish> You asked last night ;)
Nov 06 22:20:22 <freakout> ohhhhhh
Nov 06 22:20:25 <freakout> nice!
Nov 06 22:20:38 <lingfish> YESH!
Nov 06 22:20:46 <lingfish> Now the bloody wait... all this time to make the commitment...
Nov 06 22:20:51 <freakout> heh
Nov 06 22:21:03 <freakout> At least HK is slightly faster than Germany
Nov 06 22:21:22 <freakout> good thing you ordered around now, 'cause the Christmas rush is just going to start delaying tings even more from here on out...
Nov 06 22:21:33 <sugardave> oh lame, I've waited until Christmas-time to try and get a touchstone and now all the new ones are bad?!
Nov 06 22:21:33 <lingfish> Hopefully... shipping time isn't the issue... he won't have more in stock till end of net week
Nov 06 22:22:09 <lingfish> Didn't order a TS just yet... but did buy invisibleSHIELD
Nov 06 22:22:37 <freakout> lingfish: there does seem to be an issue with doctoring to the 1.2.1 Sprint version though. rwhitby has no problems with his CDMA unit, but I suspect that GSM-created Profiles don't allow you access to the Catalog
Nov 06 22:22:49 <freakout> (At least, not the 1.2.1 catalog)
Nov 06 22:27:57 <lingfish> hrm
Nov 06 22:28:03 <lingfish> s/w catalog?
Nov 06 22:28:36 <lingfish> That seems more than a tad broken
Nov 06 22:30:04 <lingfish> Ares sounds interesting...
Nov 06 22:34:03 <lingfish> I want it
Nov 06 22:39:30 <lingfish> freakout: NIB?
Nov 06 22:43:43 <freakout> new in box
Nov 06 22:43:55 <lingfish> You crazy kids and your acronyms.
Nov 06 22:44:14 <freakout> heh. Also, there's a thread on Precentral about restoring your 1.1.3 app catalog to 1.2.1 firmware
Nov 06 22:44:40 <lingfish> I gotta be honest... I'm already totally lost on versions.
Nov 06 22:44:43 <freakout> But I wanted access to the full thing, dammit. I can't do app reviews properly without it, which is half the reason I wanted the pre so bad
Nov 06 22:45:23 <freakout> 1.2.1 is a definite step up - it feels a lot smoother than 1.1.3.
Nov 06 22:45:49 * Abyssul waits for 1.3.1
Nov 06 22:45:50 <lingfish> Not that I even have one yet, but can't wait for the next that uses the GPU
Nov 06 22:46:17 <lingfish> Then it should clearly cream the shit out of anything out there.
Nov 06 22:47:04 <freakout> lingfish: You may be waiting awhile. Ajaxian updated their article on that, saying "hold your horses, it ain't gonna be in 1.3"
Nov 06 22:47:18 <lingfish> bugger.
Nov 06 22:47:26 <lingfish> I didn't think so... that's a pretty huge ask.
Nov 06 22:47:40 <Abyssul> probably a 2.0?
Nov 06 22:48:08 <lingfish> As I basically assume they're using some form of X server on it... and that'd be a bit of work, heh.
Nov 06 22:48:21 <lingfish> If a driver for that GPU isn't already written.
Nov 06 22:49:04 <lingfish> Maybe apple will donaote theirs from iCrap OSX code ;)
Nov 06 22:51:17 <freakout> lol
Nov 06 22:51:29 <lingfish> gah... my CRT seems to be dying :(
Nov 06 22:54:15 <mumbles> cold carmanel coffee latte dosent tast to bad
Nov 06 22:54:21 <mumbles> lingfish:  crt? ouch
Nov 06 22:54:27 <mumbles> ive just got rid of my last one
Nov 06 22:54:38 <lingfish> mumbles: I ran out of sugar here at home... coffee without sugar, not a huge fan.
Nov 06 22:54:45 <mumbles> ouch.
Nov 06 22:54:59 <mumbles> got any hunny?
Nov 06 22:55:01 <lingfish> Yeah, I have LCDs ready... I just can't use it on this particular server... native res mismatch, it'll look revolting
Nov 06 22:55:13 <lingfish> Actually I do, was thinkin about trying it
Nov 06 22:55:31 <mumbles> just upgarded from a celeron 1100 somethign to a pent 4 2.60ghz on my home one
Nov 06 22:55:38 <mumbles> lingfish: its good
Nov 06 22:55:49 <lingfish> I so wish LCDs could scan to multiple native res's
Nov 06 22:56:57 <mumbles> yeh.
Nov 06 22:57:04 <mumbles> thats why im plesed i got an upgarde
Nov 06 22:57:48 <lingfish> I have a whole new beast box sitting here ready... its just a HUGE task upgrading a Unix server.
Nov 06 22:57:50 <mumbles> im now trying to get a usb netgear working with ndiswrapper
Nov 06 22:57:56 <mumbles> yeh
Nov 06 22:58:02 <lingfish> I just tried the honey... it has taken the edge off :)
Nov 06 22:58:24 <mumbles> i am so going to have to get some caramel though. its so good with expresso
Nov 06 22:58:29 <lingfish> I also really, really ned to finally blast this crappy XP machine away and put 7 on it.  I dispise Microsoft, but 7 is quite a shithot OS
Nov 06 22:59:06 <mumbles> least its not vista
Nov 06 22:59:12 <mumbles> fixing a laptop here thats virus ridden
Nov 06 22:59:12 <ni|> Rick_work: how are apps paid for in app catalogue via sprint or palm?
Nov 06 22:59:21 <lingfish> But again... a huge upgrade... gotta reinstall all my prefs and photography stuff, bla hbalh
Nov 06 22:59:24 <lingfish> pain in the ass
Nov 06 23:00:07 <mumbles> ive lernt to live iwth it
Nov 06 23:00:12 <mumbles> try working in education it
Nov 06 23:00:35 <nt4cats> ni: credit card payment processed by palm
Nov 06 23:00:51 <ni|> ok great
Nov 06 23:00:52 <ni|> thanks :)
Nov 06 23:01:04 <mumbles> that reminds me i must get round to rootign my pre
Nov 06 23:01:34 <nt4cats> mumbles: if there are any Australians here they're probably tittering
Nov 06 23:01:50 <lingfish> I'm Aussie :P
Nov 06 23:01:51 <lingfish> tittering?!?!
Nov 06 23:02:20 <nt4cats> giggling
Nov 06 23:02:26 <lingfish> I like the sound of that ;)
Nov 06 23:02:26 <lingfish> oh
Nov 06 23:02:41 <lingfish> I have to admit, I was gonna make a comment hehehhe
Nov 06 23:02:54 <lingfish> I mean, when I get mine, I know I'm really gonna love it... but...
Nov 06 23:03:06 <mumbles> i got mine on the 26th
Nov 06 23:03:09 <nt4cats> He has a very close relationship with his Pre, that's all.  We shouldn't judge.
Nov 06 23:03:19 <lingfish> hahahah
Nov 06 23:03:25 <lingfish> mumbles: .au?
Nov 06 23:03:32 <mumbles> uk
Nov 06 23:03:49 <lingfish> k
Nov 06 23:04:07 <mumbles> i think it came out on the 16 or something
Nov 06 23:04:13 <lingfish> Lucky bastards :P
Nov 06 23:05:05 <mumbles> remember to get a screen protecter and a case as well when you do
Nov 06 23:05:29 <lingfish> Already ordered a invisibleSHIELD with it...
Nov 06 23:05:39 <oilswrkn> bah
Nov 06 23:05:39 <lingfish> Happy wit hthe case that comes with the phone at this point
Nov 06 23:05:41 <oilswrkn> you dont need that
Nov 06 23:05:58 <lingfish> oilswrkn: I do.  I'm shit at keeping my screens scratch-free
Nov 06 23:05:59 * nt4cats points out that 'rooting' is, ummm, impolite slang for generative/recreational act in Austrailia
Nov 06 23:06:10 <lingfish> my evil piece of crap Samsumg WinMo work phone is half mangled
Nov 06 23:06:29 <oilswrkn> i accidentally dropped my pre down a flight of cement steps on wednesday
Nov 06 23:06:33 <oilswrkn> not a single screen scratch
Nov 06 23:06:48 <nt4cats> oil: did you cry?  I would have.
Nov 06 23:06:49 <oilswrkn> some nicks on the outside, but nothing major
Nov 06 23:06:50 <lingfish> The invisibleSHIELD stuff is pretty impressive... the tube video is
Nov 06 23:07:01 <oilswrkn> i love how its got invisible in its name
Nov 06 23:07:04 <oilswrkn> but its anything but invisible
Nov 06 23:07:13 <freakout> nt4cats, I still snicker whenever anyone says it.
Nov 06 23:07:18 <mumbles> i got a cheep set from hong kong
Nov 06 23:07:41 <freakout> oilswrkn: lol. It's like "free" phones.... that cost you an extra $xx on your contract...
Nov 06 23:07:58 <oilswrkn> thats not free
Nov 06 23:08:00 <lingfish> meh... can't hurt to try it... if it sucks, I'll remove it, no big deal.  I also used Fedex after the 'issues' that freakout and rwhitby have had with tracking shipping ;)
Nov 06 23:08:23 <lingfish> That way I can use that totally awesome site that maps fedex and others onto google maps :D
Nov 06 23:08:40 <freakout> lingfish: Wise decision
Nov 06 23:08:45 <oilswrkn> or you could use the pre app
Nov 06 23:08:47 <oilswrkn> oh, thats right
Nov 06 23:08:51 <freakout> lol
Nov 06 23:08:51 <oilswrkn> xD
Nov 06 23:08:54 <lingfish> It was $AU55, but I though fuck it.
Nov 06 23:09:20 <freakout> oilswrkn: I have a job for you. You are l33t, yes? Hack Palm for me. Get me access to the paid catalog.
Nov 06 23:09:33 <oilswrkn> lol
Nov 06 23:09:44 <nt4cats> An male Australian colleague of mine (working in the US) almost fell over when a female co-worker described her recent sports outing with her husband by saying "we were in the stands rooting as hard and loud as we could" (where here 'rooting' is cheering on your favorite team)
Nov 06 23:09:45 <oilswrkn> did you flash 121?
Nov 06 23:09:49 <lingfish> freakout: oh is that the issue?  You can't get the official cat at all ?!?!?!
Nov 06 23:10:02 <freakout> oilswrkn: Yep. No access with an international Palm Profile
Nov 06 23:10:15 <oilswrkn> you need american profile
Nov 06 23:10:19 <freakout> oilswrkn: rwhitby has no problems, but he's got a US profile
Nov 06 23:10:23 <freakout> nodnod
Nov 06 23:10:23 <lingfish> How can they tell the diff?!
Nov 06 23:10:37 <lingfish> Surely not from IP or @ part of username?
Nov 06 23:10:42 <freakout> lingfish: if you log into your Palm Profile you can see it says what country you're in
Nov 06 23:10:53 <lingfish> hmm.
Nov 06 23:11:16 <oilswrkn> don't you mean "what countrz zou're in"?
Nov 06 23:11:29 <lingfish> lol
Nov 06 23:11:37 <freakout> lingfish: But I can't remember if you set that up when you first activate or not
Nov 06 23:11:49 <freakout> lingfish: I picked English UK
Nov 06 23:11:51 <lingfish> yeah, not looking forward to that... I'll adjust, but then get onto some other qwerty keyboard and start typing German
Nov 06 23:11:57 <freakout> And it now says "country: united kingdom"
Nov 06 23:12:26 <lingfish> Could it simply be a region thing?  ie goto Regional Settings and change?
Nov 06 23:13:24 <oilswrkn> freakout: solution: move to america and get a pre from sprint
Nov 06 23:13:52 <freakout> oilswrkn: what a practical idea
Nov 06 23:14:02 <oilswrkn> lol
Nov 06 23:14:02 <freakout> oilswrkn: i can tell you're the brains of the outfit :p
Nov 06 23:14:07 <lingfish> heh
Nov 06 23:14:17 <freakout> Actually, I'm talking to Chuq right now about it
Nov 06 23:14:39 <oilswrkn> i dont even remember ever seeing any announcement of the "grownup" apps elsewhere
Nov 06 23:14:44 <oilswrkn> just the kiddie table
Nov 06 23:15:02 <freakout> Chuq makes the point that there's always going to be some degree of geographic filtering
Nov 06 23:15:19 <freakout> As in, US users won't be able to see Euro-centric apps either once it's up-and-running.
Nov 06 23:15:35 <lingfish> Yeah but so fucking what... I hate that crap... its like when I'm ordering tunes to DJ, some are marked "not for export"
Nov 06 23:15:35 <freakout> It's up to the deb as to which countries it's available in
Nov 06 23:15:37 <oilswrkn> good
Nov 06 23:16:01 <freakout> s/deb/dev/
Nov 06 23:16:02 <infobot> freakout meant: It's up to the dev as to which countries it's available in
Nov 06 23:16:54 * oilswrkn will need freakout to translate his app for release in australia
Nov 06 23:17:07 <freakout> lol
Nov 06 23:17:23 <oilswrkn> i can do the translation for canada, just add ", eh" at the end of every sentence
Nov 06 23:17:29 <freakout> oilswrkn: Fine, but only if you share the massive streams of revenue you're no doubt rolling in
Nov 06 23:17:29 <freakout> lol
Nov 06 23:17:37 <oilswrkn> no
Nov 06 23:17:40 <freakout> oilswrkn: Australia is easy - just add "mate" to the end of every second sentence
Nov 06 23:17:46 <oilswrkn> lol
Nov 06 23:17:54 <freakout> lol indeed mate
Nov 06 23:18:04 <nt4cats> no worries!
Nov 06 23:18:07 <oilswrkn> mate
Nov 06 23:18:09 <lingfish> and g'day
Nov 06 23:18:12 <lingfish> prepended
Nov 06 23:18:24 <lingfish> (god I hate that word)
Nov 06 23:18:24 <nt4cats> dinner!
Nov 06 23:18:56 <oilswrkn> what, prepended?
Nov 06 23:19:11 <lingfish> g'day
Nov 06 23:19:13 <oilswrkn> or dinner
Nov 06 23:19:15 <oilswrkn> oh
Nov 06 23:19:18 <oilswrkn> xD
Nov 06 23:19:46 <lingfish> sif anyone here says a shortened version of "Good day to you Sir"
Nov 06 23:19:47 <freakout> oilswrkn: Here's a translation of your help scene
Nov 06 23:20:43 <oilswrkn> .au version just gets a pic of freakout in his short shorts as a help scene
Nov 06 23:21:09 <freakout> G'day mate. The objective of the game is to try and not give your yada yada mate.
Nov 06 23:21:11 <lingfish> Shorts... jeuss... gonna be 30 today in Melbourne... :(
Nov 06 23:21:30 <freakout> oilswrkn: No porn in the Cat I thought xD
Nov 06 23:21:42 <oilswrkn> freakout doesn't own any pants
Nov 06 23:21:54 <oilswrkn> and none of his shorts come within like 5 inches of his knee
Nov 06 23:22:15 * lingfish shudders
Nov 06 23:22:30 <freakout> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2876906&l=df37bebf45&id=630823099
Nov 06 23:22:36 <freakout> Don't worry, I'm up on a cliff on that one.
Nov 06 23:22:56 <lingfish> freakout: gah, so its an upshort shot? :/
Nov 06 23:23:04 * oilswrkn doesn't click facebook links from freakout anymore
Nov 06 23:23:09 <oilswrkn> what has been seen cannot be unseen
Nov 06 23:23:16 <freakout> A cliff which kicked my arse and made me cry because I couldn't beat it. I'm going back to the Blueys in a coupla weeks...
Nov 06 23:23:17 <lingfish> Agreed, I dare not look either
Nov 06 23:23:21 <freakout> lol
Nov 06 23:23:31 <freakout> I thought oilswrkn liked to live dangerously...
Nov 06 23:23:37 <lingfish> There could be residual nut hang and all sorts of evil
Nov 06 23:23:59 <lingfish> "residual nut hang" lol.... I literal lolled.
Nov 06 23:24:27 <freakout> in that pic there is definitely no chance of nut hang, because they had receded into my stomach
Nov 06 23:24:36 <oilswrkn> i like to live dangerously, not remember it for the rest of my life
Nov 06 23:24:38 <lingfish> hahahahaaa
Nov 06 23:24:40 <freakout> with butt-clenching fear
Nov 06 23:25:10 <mumbles> damm i need to reinstall my firewall
Nov 06 23:25:26 <oilswrkn> lol
Nov 06 23:26:13 <lingfish> mumbles needs to reinstall firewall after viewing facebook
Nov 06 23:28:12 <freakout> ohhhh you big sheilas
Nov 06 23:28:18 <mumbles> haha.
Nov 06 23:28:31 <mumbles> yteh it let freakout's photo though
Nov 06 23:28:33 <freakout> If you can't handle a manly man doing manly things in a manly manner you'll never make it in this man's world
Nov 06 23:28:35 <lingfish> lol, there's another awesome aussie word
Nov 06 23:29:41 <oilswrkn> and whats that, manly?
Nov 06 23:29:55 <lingfish> sheilas!!!!!
Nov 06 23:32:12 <lingfish> oh sssshh, he's back.
Nov 06 23:32:25 <mumbles> http://www.weebls-stuff.com/catface/Cat+Face+17/
Nov 06 23:32:27 <mumbles> haha
Nov 06 23:36:26 <preston> does anyone know if it's possible to make a patch for the phone app that calls the onscreen keyboard whenever the app is launched?
Nov 07 00:09:07 <bsdbandit> hey guys hows everything going
Nov 07 00:10:47 <lingfish> hi
Nov 07 00:10:53 <kesne> Heh
Nov 07 00:11:04 <kesne> webOS was clearly not designed to run at 800x600
Nov 07 00:11:11 <kesne> Time to start the hackathon
Nov 07 00:11:19 <_droO> ?
Nov 07 00:11:21 <lingfish> ?
Nov 07 00:11:45 <kesne> I'm getting webOS on my netbook
Nov 07 00:11:59 <kesne> Using some SDK stuff
Nov 07 00:12:04 <lingfish> hahaha nice
Nov 07 00:12:07 <kesne> changing rez to 800x600
Nov 07 00:12:11 <kesne> to start
Nov 07 00:12:19 <kesne> Make it laptop friendly
Nov 07 00:12:22 <kesne> That good stuff
Nov 07 00:12:33 <_droO> lol y tho?
Nov 07 00:12:38 <kesne> No idea
Nov 07 00:12:43 <kesne> heh
Nov 07 00:12:49 <kesne> what else would I be doing?
Nov 07 00:13:03 <kesne> The Palm Boot Logo works perfectly though
Nov 07 00:13:07 <kesne> looks so sexy
Nov 07 00:13:08 <_droO> it wouldnt be better to jus throw a different distro on there
Nov 07 00:13:12 <_droO> and run thru virtual box
Nov 07 00:13:13 <_droO> ;\
Nov 07 00:13:17 <_droO> like everyone else D:
Nov 07 00:13:27 <kesne> I <3 webOS
Nov 07 00:13:39 <_droO> i do too but still ;o
Nov 07 00:13:54 <kesne> Well
Nov 07 00:14:01 <kesne> I'm documenting everything
Nov 07 00:14:04 <kesne> and It's hella fun
Nov 07 00:14:28 <_droO> lol u can beta my chat app ;o see if it runs @ 800x600 D;
Nov 07 00:14:44 <lingfish> I didn't even know that was possible
Nov 07 00:15:02 <freakout> kesne? really?
Nov 07 00:15:07 <freakout> that's sweet man
Nov 07 00:15:10 <kesne> freakout: yeah
Nov 07 00:15:12 <freakout> SKYPE. show me!
Nov 07 00:15:23 <lingfish> ditto!
Nov 07 00:22:26 <kesne> not yet
Nov 07 00:22:28 <kesne> give me time
Nov 07 00:25:54 <lingfish> bah.
Nov 07 00:26:04 <kesne> Just this weekend
Nov 07 00:26:09 <kesne> All I need
Nov 07 00:26:18 <kesne> also: anyone that wants to help, please.
Nov 07 00:26:35 <lingfish> How?
Nov 07 00:36:59 <kesne> Well
Nov 07 00:37:03 <kesne> I'll need new images
Nov 07 00:37:04 <kesne> and etc
Nov 07 00:37:09 <kesne> Just coding help
Nov 07 00:37:22 <kesne> first up is the freaking home page
Nov 07 00:37:26 <kesne> which messes up
Nov 07 00:37:32 <kesne> but anyway, just demoed for Tim
Nov 07 00:37:37 <kesne> SO messed up ATM
Nov 07 00:37:39 <kesne> heh
Nov 07 00:37:43 <kesne> More details later
Nov 07 00:37:44 <kesne> :)
Nov 07 00:48:18 <preston_wirc> I'm just trying out wirc. can someone respond so I can see if I did it right?
Nov 07 00:50:01 <preston_wirc> oops. this is the wrong channel for wirc questions. sorry.
Nov 07 01:04:34 <jghacker> @zcos?
Nov 07 01:07:13 <jghacker> #webos
Nov 07 01:24:29 <rwhitby> ~seen zsoc
Nov 07 01:24:32 <infobot> zsoc <n=nghr@unaffiliated/zsoc> was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 22h 54m 47s ago, saying: 'Templarian, ah, so in theory you all know the new API's, but can't say anything?'.
Nov 07 01:25:34 <preston> how might i go about making the text box at the top of the phone app selected on launch? is it possible?
Nov 07 01:25:39 * Templarian didn't kills him I swears.
Nov 07 01:26:20 <Templarian> Check out it's methods it should have a focus or something.
Nov 07 01:27:55 <zsoc> I need someone who isn't me to type "ffmpeg" into a tty on their pre and tell me if there's any output.
Nov 07 01:29:05 <rawdr> yes
Nov 07 01:29:16 <zsoc> can you pastebin it for me?
Nov 07 01:30:17 <rawdr> ugh, putty is hard to copy from
Nov 07 01:30:35 * balrog-k1n tries
Nov 07 01:30:42 <rawdr> on linux anyway
Nov 07 01:30:53 <zsoc> why in the WORLD would you use putty on linux?
Nov 07 01:31:05 <rawdr> because I like it. saves profiles
Nov 07 01:31:31 <bpadalino> how do you copy from putty in linux ?
Nov 07 01:31:44 <balrog-k1n> pastebin.ca/1660356
Nov 07 01:31:46 <rawdr> dunno. I know I've ran into this before and I think I did it eventually but who knows how
Nov 07 01:31:48 <zsoc> you mean so you don't have to type "novacom -t open tty://"?
Nov 07 01:32:17 <rawdr> I just SSH at this point
Nov 07 01:33:25 <zsoc> balrog-k1n, thank you very much. If you don't mind, could you also pastebin the output of 'ffmpeg -formats' (it might be long) ?
Nov 07 01:34:30 <balrog-k1n> zsoc: isn't too long ufortunately, pastebin.ca/1660358
Nov 07 01:34:42 <rawdr> bpadalino, if you hold Control, you can right click on putty to get the menu and then choose 'copy all'. it's a workaround
Nov 07 01:35:20 <zsoc> balrog-k1n, odd... have you installed anything through optware? ffmpeg, in particular?
Nov 07 01:35:56 <balrog-k1n> zsoc: no, i've not installed anything related to graphics as far as i can tell
Nov 07 01:37:16 <balrog-k1n> yup, it's the original binary from the 1.1.3 image
Nov 07 01:37:26 <balrog-k1n> 83852 bytes
Nov 07 01:37:34 <bpadalino> weird
Nov 07 01:38:06 <zsoc> Odd... palm went WAY out of their way to make webos tiny. They even patched spaces into tabs...
Nov 07 01:38:32 <zsoc> why have an unusable version of ffmpeg in there....
Nov 07 01:38:48 <zsoc> with an AAC decoder... the pre doesn't support AAC does it?
Nov 07 01:39:01 <balrog-k1n> possibly an OE default recipe?
Nov 07 01:39:27 <zsoc> heh, like they were rushing? :P
Nov 07 01:39:50 * zsoc wonders if he could use his libraries with the on-phone version of ffmpeg
Nov 07 01:40:03 <zsoc> balrog-k1n, want to test something for me? with the chance of breaking your phone?
Nov 07 01:41:47 <balrog-k1n> zsoc: oh, that's hard to resist :)
Nov 07 01:48:18 <lingfish> zsoc: I doubt they hand did that.. en editor like eclipse can do that automatically
Nov 07 01:48:40 <zsoc> lingfish, ah, thank you, that makes a TON more sense :)
Nov 07 01:49:42 <lingfish> But hey, who knows ;)
Nov 07 01:50:31 <balrog-k1n> zsoc: i mean, sure, if it's on the phone
Nov 07 01:50:46 <balrog-k1n> i bet they retyped the sources on the tiny Pre keyboard
Nov 07 01:50:53 <balrog-k1n> that's why some chars will be missing
Nov 07 01:58:23 <kesne> Anyone here willing to help for a sec?
Nov 07 02:02:29 <lingfish> How?
Nov 07 02:12:50 <elpollodiablo1> has any one looked in to /etc/palm/browser-app.conf
Nov 07 02:12:53 <elpollodiablo1> ?
Nov 07 02:13:02 <chrisa> I have
Nov 07 02:13:35 <elpollodiablo1> what does PrivateBrowsing=false affect
Nov 07 02:13:37 <elpollodiablo1> ?
Nov 07 02:14:21 <elpollodiablo1> have you tried changing it?
Nov 07 02:14:40 <zsoc> chrisa, isn't browser-app config's a little high level for you to be involved in? :>
Nov 07 02:14:55 <chrisa> I've still looked in it before!
Nov 07 02:15:02 <chrisa> But yes, mostly
Nov 07 02:15:02 <elpollodiablo1> lol
Nov 07 02:15:26 <elpollodiablo1> well then I am at the same level as you chrisa
Nov 07 02:16:19 <zsoc> elpollodiablo1, if i had to take a gigantic guess, PrivateBrowsing would not save history.. just a guess tho
Nov 07 02:16:48 <elpollodiablo1> that is a good guess
Nov 07 02:19:22 <elpollodiablo1> I will check it now and let you know
Nov 07 02:19:55 <balrog-k1n> can someone confirm that there are two accelerometers in the Palm Pre?
Nov 07 02:20:37 <chrisa> Two? Pretty sure there is just the kxsd9
Nov 07 02:20:42 <chrisa> Unless I'm mixing the chips up
Nov 07 02:21:11 <balrog-k1n> i'm seeing two drivers enable, for kxsd9 and kxte9
Nov 07 02:21:17 <balrog-k1n> enabled*
Nov 07 02:23:14 <balrog-k1n> oh i may be wrong
Nov 07 02:23:34 <kesne> anybody know where the files that control the main, all apps closed, screen?
Nov 07 02:24:51 <elpollodiablo1> what is the command to restart luna?
Nov 07 02:25:03 <zsoc> pkill Luna ?
Nov 07 02:25:07 <chrisa> stop LunaSysMgr; start LunaSysMgr
Nov 07 02:25:13 <zsoc> ... pkill Luna
Nov 07 02:25:24 <chrisa> hey, there are init scripts for a reason
Nov 07 02:25:32 <zsoc> .. really?
Nov 07 02:25:42 * zsoc could find any reasons... 
Nov 07 02:25:46 <zsoc> *couldn't, even
Nov 07 02:25:53 * zsoc shuts up
Nov 07 02:25:54 <chrisa> ok, you're right. Technically they're "upstart" scripts
Nov 07 02:26:05 <zsoc> Ah, the truth comes out ;)
Nov 07 02:26:28 <elpollodiablo1> thank you very much
Nov 07 02:26:42 <kesne> So noby knows?
Nov 07 02:27:15 <kesne> nobody
Nov 07 02:27:22 <bpadalino> it's just Luna for all i know ..
Nov 07 02:27:47 <kesne> hmm
Nov 07 02:28:29 <kesne> Making an 800x600 webOS is hard
Nov 07 02:28:30 <kesne> heh
Nov 07 02:28:41 <zsoc> ...
Nov 07 02:28:59 <bpadalino> interesting comment
Nov 07 02:29:01 <zsoc> kesne, you should say what you need help with rather than ask if someone can help you
Nov 07 02:29:14 <kesne> zsoc: were you not here when I announced it?
Nov 07 02:29:22 <zsoc> Oh, look at that, lol
Nov 07 02:29:31 <elpollodiablo1> it  does not seem like setting  PrivateBrowsing=true stops saving browser history
Nov 07 02:29:34 <zsoc> kesne, yes, those 'files' are controlled by dragons
Nov 07 02:29:34 <kesne> webos on a netbook
Nov 07 02:29:42 <kesne> zsoc: :P
Nov 07 02:29:55 <kesne> I got the applauncher (which includes searching) all done
Nov 07 02:29:59 <zsoc> kesne, i'm serious, so unless you are familar with hex editing and binary hacking...
Nov 07 02:30:02 <chrisa> I love working here, but I can't really see myself wanting webos on a netbook
Nov 07 02:30:06 <kesne> Need to do like three more things and blam
Nov 07 02:30:13 <ice-11> hey zsoc :)
Nov 07 02:30:15 <zsoc> Oh kesne...
Nov 07 02:30:16 <chrisa> Though, I don't want android either. I'd rather pure linux, not android's abomination
Nov 07 02:30:18 <zsoc> ice-11, hey mate :)
Nov 07 02:30:20 <kesne> chrisa: just an experiment
Nov 07 02:30:33 <ice-11> get video recording working yet? :p
Nov 07 02:30:37 <kesne> zsoc: fo shizz? Not even for changing something small
Nov 07 02:30:47 <kesne> zsoc: like, how far the background image extends?
Nov 07 02:30:54 <zsoc> kesne, it's possible
Nov 07 02:31:40 <kesne> zsoc: well, the background is set to only extend so far
Nov 07 02:31:45 <kesne> which is an issue
Nov 07 02:33:35 <bpadalino> make it go farther
Nov 07 02:34:06 <markstag> Any Dutch user around?
Nov 07 02:34:15 <balrog-k1n> and deeper
Nov 07 02:34:29 <elpollodiablo1> that is what she said
Nov 07 02:36:34 <elpollodiablo1> so is there a place on webos-internals to put general questions or thing I have found as part of WebOS that I have questions about?
Nov 07 02:37:40 <zsoc> elpollodiablo1, ask here again at a different time? maybe someone else will be familiar
Nov 07 02:38:18 <elpollodiablo1> I thought about that, by that time I might forget.
Nov 07 02:49:22 <kesne> heh
Nov 07 02:49:30 <kesne> Preware works PERFECT at 800x600
Nov 07 02:49:40 <oil> screenshot
Nov 07 02:49:55 <oil> s/screenshot/screenshots/
Nov 07 02:49:56 <infobot> oil meant: screenshots
Nov 07 02:50:06 <kesne> oil: I'll stream it live
Nov 07 02:50:11 <kesne> I have no time for ss
Nov 07 02:50:20 <oil> ss's last forever, streams do not
Nov 07 02:50:29 <balrog-k1n> screenshot or die!
Nov 07 02:50:31 <kesne> oil: why?
Nov 07 02:50:43 <oil> to send them to peoples
Nov 07 02:50:46 <kesne> Ah
Nov 07 02:50:47 <kesne> Okay
Nov 07 02:50:51 <kesne> but stream first, kk?
Nov 07 02:50:56 * oil waits for link
Nov 07 02:51:06 <oil> lol
Nov 07 02:51:10 <oil> kesne was on that to: line
Nov 07 02:51:18 <oil> hahaha
Nov 07 02:51:38 <kesne> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/keen-studios-live
Nov 07 02:52:48 <oil> off air ftl
Nov 07 02:53:11 <kesne> ugh
Nov 07 02:53:15 <kesne> stupid hero...
Nov 07 02:54:52 <elpollodiablo1> anyone mess around with /etc/palm/luna.conf
Nov 07 02:56:03 <kesne> ugh
Nov 07 02:56:09 <kesne> so no live stream i guess
Nov 07 02:56:34 <elpollodiablo1> it has some settings to change download manager settings like max speed and max concurrent
Nov 07 02:57:01 <elpollodiablo1> anyone try tweaking these?
Nov 07 02:57:05 <oil> elpollodiablo1: i haven't
Nov 07 02:57:30 <kesne> oil: I seriously hate screenshots
Nov 07 02:57:49 <kesne> where is freakout?
Nov 07 02:57:59 <oil> freaking out probably
Nov 07 02:58:03 <kesne> heh
Nov 07 02:58:20 <kesne> oil: can you wait until I have a little more of the 800x600 version of webos done?
Nov 07 02:58:42 <oil> yeah
Nov 07 02:59:42 <zsoc> can webos support... anything to do with ruby?
Nov 07 02:59:56 <zsoc> with the current architecture?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Nov 07 02:59:57 2009