**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Nov 08 02:59:56 2009
Nov 08 03:00:14 <rboatright> zsoc:   we are talking about an on-pre irc client
Nov 08 03:00:19 <oil> rboatright: now work your wikifu on the wirc page
Nov 08 03:00:27 <oil> the edit links appear to be a section off
Nov 08 03:00:45 <rboatright> oil  that's templarian's fault
Nov 08 03:00:54 <oil> lol
Nov 08 03:00:58 <rboatright> he wrote the template for applications.
Nov 08 03:01:04 <rboatright> I didn't
Nov 08 03:01:10 <rboatright> and I'm not fixing it
Nov 08 03:01:15 <oil> can't you fix it with your wikifu?
Nov 08 03:01:17 <oil> awww
Nov 08 03:01:24 <rboatright> I could turn off section editing....
Nov 08 03:01:33 <oil> so templarians fu is stronger then yours?
Nov 08 03:01:37 <rboatright> yes
Nov 08 03:01:40 <oil> lol
Nov 08 03:01:53 <rboatright> not only do I have wikifu,  but I'm humble too.
Nov 08 03:02:11 * oil is not in fear of your wikifu anymore
Nov 08 03:02:17 <rboatright> anything else I can do for you tonight?
Nov 08 03:02:37 <rboatright> before I go back to beating my head against fitting my apps onto a display that is at least 20 px to short?
Nov 08 03:02:48 <oil> lol
Nov 08 03:02:50 <PuffTheMagic> rboatright: so idk if i introduced you to James (ni|).... he will be joinging the webos-internals devs
Nov 08 03:03:03 <rboatright> I have spoken with him
Nov 08 03:03:07 <rboatright> but I know nothing about him
Nov 08 03:03:10 * Templarian believes it's default rick's fault
Nov 08 03:03:13 <rboatright> who is he?  What's his interest.
Nov 08 03:03:17 <oil> OHHH
Nov 08 03:03:28 * oil hears "Ready... FIGHT" 
Nov 08 03:03:31 <PuffTheMagic> ni|: rboatright is our sprint liaison
Nov 08 03:03:38 <PuffTheMagic> ;)
Nov 08 03:03:43 <rboatright> Rick didn't put the stupid templates into the wiki.  Rick edited wiki pages directly.
Nov 08 03:04:00 * oil gets popcorn
Nov 08 03:04:11 * Templarian wrote most of the templates. :P
Nov 08 03:04:12 <rboatright> PuffTheMagic:  that is,  hmm,  that is,      ok Puff, that's as close to correct as any description is likely to get.
Nov 08 03:04:34 <rboatright> Templarian:  wrote templates.  Why does this not surprize anyone?
Nov 08 03:05:01 <PuffTheMagic> rboatright: he is a kernel hacker, low level dev who also does works for a company that makes an app for mobile devices
Nov 08 03:05:14 <PuffTheMagic> so he list multi talented like me and 10x better programmer
Nov 08 03:05:18 <Templarian> The background on the wirc article should extend to the bottom.
Nov 08 03:05:19 <ni|> PuffTheMagic: ah ok cool :)
Nov 08 03:05:29 <oil> extending to the bottom is overrated
Nov 08 03:05:32 <PuffTheMagic> s/list/is/
Nov 08 03:05:33 <infobot> PuffTheMagic meant: so he is multi talented like me and 10x better programmer
Nov 08 03:06:23 <Marajin> night peoples
Nov 08 03:10:30 <ni|> crap we had a lightening storm in my hometown and it turned my coomputer into a boatanchor
Nov 08 03:10:38 <ni|> the crappy one there at least
Nov 08 03:11:22 <zsoc> ni|, are you a knight?
Nov 08 03:11:38 <oil> har har har
Nov 08 03:12:10 <PuffTheMagic> ni|: you comuter fried or just out of power?
Nov 08 03:12:18 <ni|> busted the powersupply
Nov 08 03:12:23 <PuffTheMagic> bummer
Nov 08 03:12:43 <ni|> *nod*
Nov 08 03:12:48 <ni|> zsoc: ?
Nov 08 03:12:58 <PuffTheMagic> ni|: i didnt get it either
Nov 08 03:13:08 <zsoc> the knights... you know. icky icky icky ftang zoop... etc etc?
Nov 08 03:13:30 <PuffTheMagic> ni|: hes i a little nutty from learning gentoo and working on video recording for 2 months
Nov 08 03:14:28 <zsoc> gentoo is full of win and awesome. I would never use it for anything that doesn't involve cross compiling. but it's full of awesome.
Nov 08 03:15:32 <zsoc> besides, video recording works... but THE ONLY GUY THAT CAN WRITE A C SERVICE is busy doing some fancy wirc ;)
Nov 08 03:15:38 <ni|> zsoc: heck no i have no idea what you are talking about
Nov 08 03:15:38 <ni|> puf	i told you gentoo makes mpeople go crazy
Nov 08 03:15:56 <zsoc> ni|, monty python scheme, from the holy grail movie
Nov 08 03:16:04 <zsoc> s/scheme/skit
Nov 08 03:16:31 <zsoc> that's odd, my typos always end up being other words instead of mistypings... could i have a neurological disorder?
Nov 08 03:18:52 <ni|> zsoc: oh ok
Nov 08 03:19:02 <ni|> s/oh/go/g
Nov 08 03:19:02 <infobot> ni| meant: zsoc: go ok
Nov 08 03:19:06 <ni|> hmm
Nov 08 03:19:33 <ni|> rboatright: well nice to meet your acquaintance
Nov 08 03:19:35 <zsoc> the /g isn't really necessary there, only 1 oh on that line ;)
Nov 08 03:19:50 <ni|> zsoc: i know i just wanted tos ee what it would do
Nov 08 03:19:55 <zsoc> ah
Nov 08 03:20:01 <ni|> mine seemed tow ork
Nov 08 03:20:08 <ni|> perhaps because you directly addressed me?
Nov 08 03:20:11 <ni|> zsoc: whee
Nov 08 03:20:13 <zsoc> i leave off the trailing / so it doesn't do it, i find it annoying
Nov 08 03:20:15 <ni|> s/whee/geee/g
Nov 08 03:20:16 <infobot> ni| meant: zsoc: geee
Nov 08 03:20:20 <ni|> hmm no
Nov 08 03:20:26 <ni|> i did do /g again
Nov 08 03:20:39 <ni|> habit from refactoring
Nov 08 03:20:44 * Templarian just sent a huge email to Matthew at Palm. :)
Nov 08 03:20:45 <zsoc> the syntax is kind of funny
Nov 08 03:20:52 <zsoc> s/funny/garbage/
Nov 08 03:20:53 <infobot> zsoc meant: the syntax is kind of garbage
Nov 08 03:21:11 <zsoc> s/unny/anny/
Nov 08 03:21:11 <infobot> zsoc meant: the syntax is kind of fanny
Nov 08 03:21:28 <zsoc> hmm..
Nov 08 03:30:18 * rboatright preffered diff syntax to s/ syntax
Nov 08 03:30:32 <rboatright> -ff + f
Nov 08 03:31:06 <rboatright> Who thought that a 400 px screen was a good idea?
Nov 08 03:31:18 <rboatright> Who thought that, and then eats up 40px of it most of the time.
Nov 08 03:52:00 <oc80z> whats good
Nov 08 03:55:40 <geist> to see your enemies driven before you
Nov 08 03:57:04 <oil> lol
Nov 08 03:57:31 <geist> (complete the quote for extra credit)
Nov 08 03:57:35 <zsoc> geist, excellent
Nov 08 03:57:53 <zsoc> great movie
Nov 08 03:58:00 <zsoc> s/great/funny/
Nov 08 03:58:01 <infobot> zsoc meant: funny movie
Nov 08 03:58:11 <geist> yeah
Nov 08 03:58:13 <geist> s/yeah/yes
Nov 08 03:58:35 <geist> s/s\/yeah\/yes/s\/yeah\/yes\//
Nov 08 03:58:37 * zsoc falling down the stairs, "ARGHA, OMHA< AHRNA, HODLAH, AHMOOAALLLLDDD"
Nov 08 03:59:17 <geist> stupid non recursive infobot
Nov 08 03:59:35 <zsoc> did you try -r? ;)
Nov 08 03:59:51 <geist> s/what/the hell/gr
Nov 08 04:00:02 <geist> test
Nov 08 04:00:05 <geist> s/test/what/
Nov 08 04:00:06 <infobot> geist meant: what
Nov 08 04:00:18 <geist> s/what/zippie/
Nov 08 04:00:27 <geist> test
Nov 08 04:00:29 <geist> s/test/a/
Nov 08 04:00:30 <infobot> geist meant: a
Nov 08 04:00:32 <geist> s/test/b/
Nov 08 04:00:34 <infobot> geist meant: b
Nov 08 04:00:45 <zsoc> hm, we should have a bot run on a box not connected to anything important that can actually run shell commands
Nov 08 04:00:49 <geist> s/test/stfu
Nov 08 04:01:09 <geist> s/s\/test\/stfu/s\/test\/foobar\//
Nov 08 04:01:44 <geist> guess command strings it doesn't
Nov 08 04:01:46 <geist> deal with
Nov 08 04:02:00 <zsoc> I've never met an irc bot i liked
Nov 08 04:02:27 <geist> irc bots are almost as dumb as irc
Nov 08 04:03:46 <zsoc> i'm really sorry, all i can think of is that terrible gamecube game tho
Nov 08 04:04:18 <geist> which one?
Nov 08 04:13:58 <zsoc> geist
Nov 08 04:17:49 <chron__> anyone know if the pixi is worth grabbing + cancelling contract w/ etf?
Nov 08 04:19:17 <zsoc> chron__, not any more than the pre?
Nov 08 04:19:37 <zsoc> i don't know what everyone's issue is with etf's... you can generally make them back by reselling your equipment
Nov 08 04:20:22 <chron__> i've been keeping my eye on webos and really really like it + the hackability but don't want to spend too much on device+etf since i have an iphone @ at&t as my cell
Nov 08 04:20:25 <chron__> hmm thats true
Nov 08 04:23:16 <chron__> isn't pixi like $99 and pre $549?
Nov 08 04:23:25 <chron__> that's what i've heard
Nov 08 04:23:57 <zsoc> ....
Nov 08 04:24:03 <zsoc> that makes zero sense
Nov 08 04:24:17 <gkatsev> pixi is like $200
Nov 08 04:24:27 <zsoc> activated it's something like $99 and $150, unactivation it's something like $449 and $549, and most of that is speculation
Nov 08 04:24:32 <gkatsev> you have a $100 rebate
Nov 08 04:24:34 <chron__> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Sprint+-+Palm+Pre+Mobile+Phone+-+Black/9337595.p?id=1218087261903&skuId=9337595&st=palm%20pre&cp=1&lp=1
Nov 08 04:24:43 <chron__> i assumed that was w/ no contract
Nov 08 04:24:54 <chron__> and then when someone told me its $549 on contract that made sense to me
Nov 08 04:25:13 <zsoc> it made sense the device is more expensive on contract?
Nov 08 04:25:18 <zsoc> ok, i'm done with this, night all
Nov 08 04:26:24 <gkatsev> zsoc|away: night
Nov 08 04:29:17 * chron__ == totally out of touch w/ prices, just took a quick glance
Nov 08 04:29:40 <chron__> i just didn't know if anyone that had a pixi thought there was anything major lacking
Nov 08 04:38:39 <chrisa> chron__: no one has a pixi so far, minus employees so...
Nov 08 04:41:06 <bpadalino> just a week until release, though
Nov 08 04:41:30 <chron__> damn
Nov 08 04:41:34 <chron__> devs don't have it then?
Nov 08 04:42:01 <chrisa> There's no difference in sdk between the two, so no reason for devs to have them
Nov 08 04:42:09 <chrisa> They can have the emulator resize if they need it
Nov 08 04:42:24 <chron__> ah
Nov 08 04:42:28 <chron__> dev's don't have it then?
Nov 08 04:42:34 <oil> ...
Nov 08 04:42:35 <bpadalino> ...
Nov 08 04:42:43 <dBsooner> ...
Nov 08 04:42:46 <chron__> ...
Nov 08 04:42:47 <dBsooner> xD
Nov 08 04:42:48 <oil> lol
Nov 08 04:43:31 <chron__> sorry, maybe it's just the people i'm around, but i am always suspicious when I get an answer like yours with no "yes" or "no"
Nov 08 04:43:58 <chron__> (btw, i meant devs w/ wiki access and such, not just average devs)
Nov 08 04:44:13 <oil> chrisa knows what he is talking about, you can take his yes or no as it is
Nov 08 04:45:20 <dBsooner> There is no real need for us devs to have one in our hands.. except greed.
Nov 08 04:45:26 <chron__> ha i am aware that he does
Nov 08 04:45:27 <dBsooner> The SDK can do what we need it to.
Nov 08 04:45:38 <chron__> dBsooner: i meant "dev" devs
Nov 08 04:45:46 <chron__> not just someone that dl'd the sdk
Nov 08 04:45:54 <dBsooner> so what am I?
Nov 08 04:45:57 <dBsooner> a "fake" dev?
Nov 08 04:46:03 <chron__> didn't mean it like that
Nov 08 04:46:05 <oil> lol
Nov 08 04:46:05 <bpadalino> i heard even palm employees don't even get to work on it
Nov 08 04:46:13 <chron__> i meant the "wiki access" devs
Nov 08 04:46:16 <dBsooner> oil.. you're a "fake" dev
Nov 08 04:46:26 <dBsooner> What the hell is a "wiki access" dev?
Nov 08 04:46:27 * oil sad
Nov 08 04:46:29 <chron__> the ones that got the dev pre's back before release
Nov 08 04:46:43 <oil> people had pres before release?
Nov 08 04:46:44 <bpadalino> no one received one that i had heard of
Nov 08 04:46:48 <chron__> the ones that run the dev firmware's that have ssh pre-installed
Nov 08 04:46:52 <chron__> um
Nov 08 04:46:54 <chron__> wow
Nov 08 04:46:56 <dBsooner> I never heard of someone getting one before release.
Nov 08 04:47:03 <chron__> this is seriously news to you?
Nov 08 04:47:06 <dBsooner> I got one after release.. from Palm.. to "hack on".
Nov 08 04:47:08 <dBsooner> But not before.
Nov 08 04:47:24 <chron__> heh ok i'll stop talking now then, i thought this was a known thing
Nov 08 04:47:33 <dBsooner> chrisa?
Nov 08 04:47:39 * oil wonders who got one before release
Nov 08 04:47:46 * dBsooner does too.
Nov 08 04:47:48 <bpadalino> who's that guy who wrote the twitter app for webos to be in the app catalog when the pre came out ?
Nov 08 04:47:59 <chrisa> The image most people use in house does not have ssh
Nov 08 04:48:11 <dBsooner> :D
Nov 08 04:48:17 <bpadalino> if that guy didn't get a pre before it was out
Nov 08 04:48:19 <chron__> chrisa: wasn't talking about that one
Nov 08 04:48:21 <bpadalino> and it took months to get one after it came out
Nov 08 04:48:25 * dBsooner listens to chrisa like he is the MAN.
Nov 08 04:48:30 <bpadalino> it sounds like not many people had one before launch
Nov 08 04:48:31 <chron__> was talking about the dev firmwares that have ssh preinstalled
Nov 08 04:48:43 <chron__> yeah
Nov 08 04:48:45 <chron__> very few
Nov 08 04:48:51 <chrisa> I don't know what was on the devices we gave out to devs at conferences and such
Nov 08 04:48:57 <chron__> not palm employees, i just mean ppl that have confluence wiki access
Nov 08 04:49:00 <chrisa> But we don't really push ssh because there's not much of a need for it
Nov 08 04:49:23 <ni|> hello
Nov 08 04:49:24 <chron__> chrisa: i just know that I know ppl that had one in May
Nov 08 04:49:28 <chron__> and that image had ssh
Nov 08 04:49:44 <chron__> don't know what is on the in-house firmwares nowadays, been too busy in iphone-land :P
Nov 08 04:49:50 <ni|> i keep getting a crash in this thread view on my emu
Nov 08 04:49:59 <ni|> it isn't like based on one fn which is so annoying
Nov 08 04:50:21 <dBsooner> chron__: I think chrisa knows a little more about this than you
Nov 08 04:50:32 <bpadalino> lies - they keep him locked in a closet like palm should
Nov 08 04:50:43 <bpadalino> only to throw coffee and donuts in to keep him workin
Nov 08 04:50:52 <dBsooner> lol
Nov 08 04:51:01 <dBsooner> chrisa is that low totem poll palm employee
Nov 08 04:51:10 <dBsooner> the one that is "go get me some coffee damnit"
Nov 08 04:51:19 <dBsooner> lol.. j/k
Nov 08 04:51:27 <chrisa> It's completely possible early units had ssh
Nov 08 04:51:34 <chrisa> We took them out of the standard build at some point
Nov 08 04:51:36 <ni|> not to mention pushing ssh can pose a security issue
Nov 08 04:51:52 <chrisa> Production builds all lack it obviously
Nov 08 04:52:26 <dBsooner> chrisa: but those would have been non-production models.. or.. "for demo only" models
Nov 08 04:52:42 <dBsooner> ones that really wouldn't have been of huge importance for development
Nov 08 04:52:44 <chrisa> I have no idea what we gave early access people
Nov 08 04:53:06 <bpadalino> hopefully not herpes :(
Nov 08 04:53:12 <dBsooner> lol
Nov 08 04:53:22 <oil> lol
Nov 08 04:53:26 <chron__> dBsooner: huh?
Nov 08 04:53:31 <dBsooner> nothing
Nov 08 04:53:44 <chrisa> Closest any mobile device has come to giving users herpes was when android 1.0 was shipped with a root console interpreting all key presses
Nov 08 04:53:45 <ni|> chrisa: can you please tell me how long it would take an threaded email view patch to pass your standards tests?  i have a bit more to finish on it though
Nov 08 04:53:51 <ni|> will it even be accepted?
Nov 08 04:53:56 <ni|> or should i just put it on preware
Nov 08 04:53:57 <chron__> ha that was funny
Nov 08 04:54:19 <chron__> but yeah chrisa it was pre-production shit for early access devs, that's what you calll them iguess
Nov 08 04:54:32 <chrisa> ni|: I'm not the person to ask
Nov 08 04:55:23 <bpadalino> chrisa, have you met the guy from AMD/ATI working in the kernel group now ?
Nov 08 04:55:28 <chron__> i love how palm engs are allowed to chill here
Nov 08 04:55:32 <oil> ni|: preware it :)
Nov 08 04:55:43 <chrisa> I don't think he has started yet
Nov 08 04:55:46 <dBsooner> chrisa: you're an engineer?
Nov 08 04:55:50 <dBsooner> xD
Nov 08 04:55:52 <chron__> in #iphone on the osx86 server, apple would rape any employees that chatted on there :P
Nov 08 04:56:05 <bpadalino> ah
Nov 08 04:56:15 <chron__> except for one who leaked a few secrets, but that person resigned and thats a whole nother story :P
Nov 08 04:57:40 <bpadalino> it's nice to have a more up-and-up relationship with palm ... seems like they get it about tinkering
Nov 08 04:57:50 <chron__> ha they are the best
Nov 08 04:58:00 <chron__> i love how there is even an open datasheet for the proc
Nov 08 04:58:20 <bpadalino> well that's a TI thing ..and they're starting to "get it" too
Nov 08 04:58:25 <chron__> i started reversing bootie a during the summer but then found out there was already a datasheet out so there is no need :P
Nov 08 04:58:29 <chron__> no
Nov 08 04:58:33 <chron__> don't call it just a TI thing
Nov 08 04:58:37 <bpadalino> the older OMAP stuff is closed down
Nov 08 04:58:40 <ni|> chrisa: ok sorry for the noise :/
Nov 08 04:58:51 <chron__> if palm didn't want ppl to know about their proc they would do what Apple did
Nov 08 04:58:55 <dBsooner> rwhitby: ping
Nov 08 04:59:02 <chrisa> We tear out all the fun stuff from bootie before shipping anyway
Nov 08 04:59:05 <chron__> with the iPhone they had samsung make them a "custom" one
Nov 08 04:59:17 <chron__> chrisa: it's easy enough to understand :P
Nov 08 04:59:27 <bpadalino> no offense, but palm didn't have the money to make a custom processor
Nov 08 04:59:30 <chrisa> It's not to obfuscate
Nov 08 04:59:30 <chron__> prototype iBoots are fun to look at tho :P i assume that's what you mean
Nov 08 04:59:39 <chrisa> You keep thinking we're based on iboot
Nov 08 04:59:42 <chrisa> and that's so silly
Nov 08 04:59:46 <chron__> chrisa: you mean custom coommands, right?
Nov 08 05:00:16 <chron__> ie. Apple takes out commands in production builds that let you dump / flash NOR or NAND, mess with registers, and other fun stuff
Nov 08 05:00:23 <chrisa> yes, we tear out all the interesting hardware commands because they're not relevant to production
Nov 08 05:00:24 <chron__> nah
Nov 08 05:00:26 <chron__> i know you are not
Nov 08 05:00:33 <chron__> i previously thought that
Nov 08 05:00:41 <chrisa> gotcha
Nov 08 05:00:53 <chron__> that was only because bootie was the second bootloader i have ever looked @ in IDA
Nov 08 05:01:05 <chron__> it's similarity to iBoot just "tricked" me :P
Nov 08 05:01:24 <chron__> "bpadalino: no offense, but palm didn't have the money to make a custom processor"
Nov 08 05:01:29 <chron__> why do you think that?
Nov 08 05:01:44 <chron__> oh wait, iPhone one wasn't "custom" per se
Nov 08 05:01:52 <bpadalino> too much time to prove out the silicon ... not worth it ..
Nov 08 05:02:09 <chron__> it was based on their s3c6410x, with peripherals from their s5l8700
Nov 08 05:02:13 <chron__> or something like that
Nov 08 05:02:16 <chron__> it wasn't totally custom
Nov 08 05:02:29 <chrisa> Getting a manufacturer to do custom hardware for you seems pretty easy if you agree to a volume
Nov 08 05:02:32 <chron__> just enough to not let people understand all the hardware shit via a datasheet :P
Nov 08 05:02:43 <chron__> well yeah
Nov 08 05:02:50 <chron__> if you are making a shitload of course they would
Nov 08 05:02:58 <chron__> especially when its just a "mix" of existing ones
Nov 08 05:02:59 <bpadalino> getting a whole new maskset done and taped out in a short time period is still difficult
Nov 08 05:03:01 <chron__> per se
Nov 08 05:03:04 <chrisa> We had no reason to get a modified processor
Nov 08 05:03:26 <chron__> neither did apple, except for them not wanting people to develop upon it and keep the iphone locked down ;)
Nov 08 05:03:50 <bpadalino> sounds a little naive to think that was the only reason
Nov 08 05:03:56 <chron__> nah
Nov 08 05:03:58 <chron__> there were probably more
Nov 08 05:04:01 <chron__> i just don't know them
Nov 08 05:04:15 <chron__> apple is completely out of touch when it comes to security on their iphone tho
Nov 08 05:04:21 <chron__> so it wouldn't surprise me if it was
Nov 08 05:04:38 <chron__> i mean, the s5l8900x (their "custom" one) also has better performance, so that too
Nov 08 05:04:46 <bpadalino> everyone is an idiot over at apple engineering ?
Nov 08 05:04:48 <chron__> but its not that much of a difference
Nov 08 05:04:56 <chron__> bpadalino: i didn't say that
Nov 08 05:05:08 <chron__> but they are just not very smart when it comes to preventing "hacking"
Nov 08 05:05:41 <chron__> they keep trying to lock out jailbreakers, probably because of their precious deals w/ at&t, and don't even bat an eye at all the appstore piracy, which also bugs me
Nov 08 05:06:23 <bpadalino> but apple sells hardware ... so why should that matter to them ?
Nov 08 05:06:27 * geist smiles
Nov 08 05:06:37 <chron__> no idea why it would :P
Nov 08 05:06:42 <chron__> but let me give you an example: for nearly a year, in iBoot, their "bootie" per se, there was a command that would jump to a given address with no signature checks whatsoever :P
Nov 08 05:06:57 <geist> i believe it was called 'go'
Nov 08 05:07:01 <geist> sort of like 'go' in bootie
Nov 08 05:07:02 <geist> :)
Nov 08 05:07:07 <chron__> nah :)
Nov 08 05:07:07 <bpadalino> heh
Nov 08 05:07:09 <chron__> "diags"
Nov 08 05:07:14 <chron__> "go" had a sigcheck dude ;)
Nov 08 05:07:20 <geist> ah, yeah. that makes sense
Nov 08 05:07:21 <bpadalino> yeah man - get with it geist
Nov 08 05:07:22 <chron__> or rather, _has_ a sigcheck
Nov 08 05:07:30 <geist> i would have sig checked, diag was some BS added after i left
Nov 08 05:07:41 <geist> i can imagine precisely why it was added. probably jammed in some day in the factory
Nov 08 05:07:57 <chron__> haha yup
Nov 08 05:08:05 <geist> as much as i didn't like all the crypto stuff, i at least tried to do a good job with whatever was in my court
Nov 08 05:08:09 <chron__> to run factoryharness / purpleskank in a "secure" enviroment or something
Nov 08 05:08:10 <geist> and of course everyone else broke their stuff
Nov 08 05:08:26 <chron__> here's the funny thing
Nov 08 05:08:30 <chron__> diags still doesn't sigcheck :P
Nov 08 05:08:38 <geist> one of the reasons i left anyway. there was serious turf wars going on over all sorts of dumb shit
Nov 08 05:08:42 <geist> and i was totall tired of it
Nov 08 05:08:53 <chron__> it just checks bit 5 of the chipid to make sure DEBUG is set before doing the jump
Nov 08 05:08:57 <chron__> ha yeah i could understand
Nov 08 05:09:04 <chron__> i would love a job at apple on the red team
Nov 08 05:09:37 <chron__> then i could have direct influence on what the hell they are doing wrong here, and show them a million different things they could do to at least _attempt_ to combat piracy
Nov 08 05:10:05 <chron__> geist: was "purple skank" and "skank phone" some kind of inside joke btw?
Nov 08 05:10:13 <geist> oh no. not at all
Nov 08 05:10:19 <chron__> with the tranny from the mac + pc commercial as the icon, that was hilarious :P
Nov 08 05:10:21 <chron__> oh
Nov 08 05:10:22 <geist> that's entirely so the phone can be used without the real UI
Nov 08 05:10:24 <geist> for factory stuff, etc
Nov 08 05:10:30 <chron__> oh, i know
Nov 08 05:10:32 <chron__> i've used it
Nov 08 05:10:34 <chron__> i didnt mean the app
Nov 08 05:10:46 <geist> skankphone was developed super early
Nov 08 05:10:55 <chron__> i mean the name "skank phone" and "purple skank" and such
Nov 08 05:10:58 <chron__> i mean
Nov 08 05:11:00 <geist> up until about mac world, or about 4 months before ship, the bulk of the engineers working on the project
Nov 08 05:11:04 <chron__> the acutal name just seems like some kind of inside joke :P
Nov 08 05:11:10 <geist> which was about 100 or so by that time had no access to the ui
Nov 08 05:11:20 <chron__> ha evidently
Nov 08 05:11:22 <geist> only a tiny blessed few could even run the full system
Nov 08 05:11:25 <chron__> all in good old layerkit
Nov 08 05:11:25 <geist> it was total BS
Nov 08 05:11:45 <chron__> where did the name "skank phone" come form though?
Nov 08 05:11:52 <geist> but even if we did it served the purpose of hiding the ui from all the factory stuff early on
Nov 08 05:11:59 <geist> since that's likely to be where screenshots leak from
Nov 08 05:12:09 <geist> oh i dont remember. i'll ask the guy taht did it monday
Nov 08 05:12:17 <chron__> awesome, thanks man
Nov 08 05:12:19 <chron__> that's been killing me
Nov 08 05:12:59 <bpadalino> geist, do you get to avoid going to china for the holidays this year ?
Nov 08 05:13:08 <geist> so far
Nov 08 05:13:09 <chron__> and yeah, i figured it hid SpringBoard
Nov 08 05:13:20 <geist> though i dont mind it anyway
Nov 08 05:13:26 <chron__> there is even a script somewhere on a prototype os i have lying around that switches out the two :P
Nov 08 05:13:27 <geist> the hotel i stay in is much nicer than my house
Nov 08 05:13:30 <bpadalino> not a holiday guy ?
Nov 08 05:13:42 <geist> http://tkgeisel.com/pics/China/
Nov 08 05:13:57 <geist> though china pretty much always dark and grey like that
Nov 08 05:14:01 <geist> it's pollution, i think
Nov 08 05:14:12 <geist> http://tkgeisel.com/pics/China/medium/IMGP0903.JPG
Nov 08 05:14:14 <geist> that's the sun
Nov 08 05:14:15 <geist> :)
Nov 08 05:14:29 <chron__> jesus
Nov 08 05:14:31 <bpadalino> ouch
Nov 08 05:14:48 <bpadalino> decent room, though
Nov 08 05:14:56 <geist> yeah, and i've stayed in nicer rooms than that
Nov 08 05:15:05 <geist> most of those pictures were from 2006, back in the apple days
Nov 08 05:15:17 <geist> i dont think i've bothered to take my camera to the more recent builds
Nov 08 05:15:33 <bpadalino> when you stay, is it all work all the time, or plenty of down time to check out the city ?
Nov 08 05:15:48 <geist> at apple, it was work all the time
Nov 08 05:15:53 <geist> palm we take it a bit easier
Nov 08 05:16:16 <chron__> i always though tthings were more relaxed at apple
Nov 08 05:16:18 <geist> apple builds were pretty much like stay at the factory 20 hours a day until you fix whateer you need to fix
Nov 08 05:16:23 <geist> holy shit no
Nov 08 05:16:28 <chron__> thats the way they make it seem on their "jobs" site :P
Nov 08 05:16:29 <geist> it was a complete and total meatgrinder
Nov 08 05:16:37 <chron__> damn
Nov 08 05:16:46 <bpadalino> nice to see they aren't chopping down all the trees in the city
Nov 08 05:17:00 <geist> those pics are Shenzhen
Nov 08 05:17:32 <geist> got a trip to Seoul earlier this year too. i should see if i can dig up some pics from that
Nov 08 05:18:04 <chron__> geist: for iboot did they give you the S5L8900X datasheet or did they lock you in a room for a week and tell you to reverse the SecureROM code that samsung wrote to find out about the hardware?
Nov 08 05:18:11 <bpadalino> interesting .. our manufacturing facility is down the stree
Nov 08 05:18:13 <bpadalino> street
Nov 08 05:18:25 <geist> good ol Foxconn
Nov 08 05:18:54 <geist> chron__: i was heavily involved in the design and validation of the sl8900
Nov 08 05:19:08 <geist> which is why the bootloader came out of me, since i was already quite familiar with bootstrapping it
Nov 08 05:19:16 <chron__> nice :)
Nov 08 05:19:32 <geist> there were no secret bits of the samsung cpu to apple
Nov 08 05:19:40 <geist> we were *heavily* dictating its design
Nov 08 05:19:42 <chron__> (btw what i said before was just a joke about how you make apple seem + how i thought it seemed)
Nov 08 05:19:54 <geist> i think we had the rtl and everything, though i never dealt with it
Nov 08 05:20:06 <bpadalino> they gave up the rtl ?!
Nov 08 05:20:09 <bpadalino> wow
Nov 08 05:20:23 <chron__> rtl?
Nov 08 05:20:44 <geist> apple calls the shots in all hardware relationships as far as i can tell
Nov 08 05:20:56 <chron__> i'll assume that whatever it is, an rtl is better than a datasheet? :P
Nov 08 05:20:58 <bpadalino> i guess when you're shipping millions of units
Nov 08 05:20:59 <chron__> nice tho
Nov 08 05:21:00 <geist> companies will line up for miles for the priviledge of getting reamed by you
Nov 08 05:21:14 <bpadalino> chron, it's the source code for the chip
Nov 08 05:21:16 <geist> that's the nice part about it. they'll do anything for you. custom, etc
Nov 08 05:21:22 <chron__> holy shit
Nov 08 05:21:27 <chron__> so basically
Nov 08 05:21:35 <chron__> aple technically has the gid key then? :P
Nov 08 05:21:38 <chron__> *apple
Nov 08 05:21:39 <geist> thats why a lot of chips in the apple stuff has a little apple logo on it
Nov 08 05:21:48 <geist> oh that? i dunno
Nov 08 05:21:54 <chron__> ha that would be sick
Nov 08 05:22:05 <chron__> i'm surprised someone good with hw hasn't decapped the s5l yet
Nov 08 05:22:09 <chron__> and grabbed the gid
Nov 08 05:22:22 <geist> i wouldn't try it if i was in the US
Nov 08 05:22:27 <chron__> well, i make it seem easy, but yeah :P
Nov 08 05:22:28 <chron__> why not?
Nov 08 05:22:48 <geist> i dunno, i've always heard that decapping silicon really stretches the limits of 'reverse engineering'
Nov 08 05:22:57 <chron__> well
Nov 08 05:23:03 <bpadalino> lots of cool tricks to hide stuff in processors
Nov 08 05:23:04 <chron__> you can't unlock without a jailbreak
Nov 08 05:23:09 <chron__> you can't jailbreak with encrypted fw files
Nov 08 05:23:17 <chron__> and maybe it could be argued that gid key is needed
Nov 08 05:23:21 <chron__> yeah
Nov 08 05:23:25 <geist> sure, but when the corporate ninjas come and decapitate your family...
Nov 08 05:23:26 <chron__> like with the adm in the s5l8900
Nov 08 05:23:47 <chron__> apple used it in 3.0gm to fuck with aes and confused the hell out of us for a while haha
Nov 08 05:24:00 <geist> anyway, i didn't deal with any of that. i mostly hacked on the low level drivers for most of anything else
Nov 08 05:24:08 <chron__> ah nice
Nov 08 05:24:16 <chron__> i would have liked to work on secureROM
Nov 08 05:24:17 <geist> validating silicon and then hacking low level stuff for the bootloader/validation suite
Nov 08 05:24:33 <chron__> its just so sloppy :P altho it doesn't need to be neat since they don't expect ppl to see it
Nov 08 05:24:34 <bpadalino> geist, do you mind the vendors not lining up for palm like they did for apple ?
Nov 08 05:24:36 <geist> but i forgot most of those details
Nov 08 05:24:46 <chron__> ha "forgot"
Nov 08 05:24:47 <geist> bpadalino: it's a different thing, yeah
Nov 08 05:24:55 <geist> chron__: i absolutely did
Nov 08 05:25:02 <chron__> even if you "remembered" they'll probably rape you if you even admit to having seen the datasheet
Nov 08 05:25:16 <chron__> oh lol
Nov 08 05:25:25 <geist> when i left apple i really went super clean. absolutely no docs, no hardware, no source
Nov 08 05:25:40 <bpadalino> sounds like the best way to go
Nov 08 05:25:45 <chron__> how does that work exactly?
Nov 08 05:25:58 <chron__> like, is the NDA permanent?
Nov 08 05:26:03 <chron__> normally you could get fired for violation
Nov 08 05:26:14 <geist> i doubt it
Nov 08 05:26:15 <chron__> but if you are already gone, do they sue you?
Nov 08 05:26:25 <geist> if ou piss them off, i would assume so
Nov 08 05:26:29 <chron__> lol
Nov 08 05:26:31 <bpadalino> signing a lifelong agreement to not disclose information is a little daunting
Nov 08 05:26:36 <chron__> yeah
Nov 08 05:26:55 <chron__> but apple doesn't want SAMSUNG_S5L8922X_DATASHEET.pdf on the pirate bay either ;)
Nov 08 05:27:00 <chron__> altho that would be a godsend
Nov 08 05:27:18 <geist> anyway, i really have started to forget most of the details of that guy
Nov 08 05:27:25 <geist> i've dealt with like 5 other SOCs since then
Nov 08 05:27:28 <geist> they start blurring together
Nov 08 05:27:32 <chron__> heh
Nov 08 05:27:36 <chron__> btw
Nov 08 05:27:39 <chron__> any idea what exactly
Nov 08 05:27:40 <geist> that was 3 years ago folks
Nov 08 05:27:47 <chron__> "H1" and "H2" mean?
Nov 08 05:27:51 <geist> dunno
Nov 08 05:27:55 <chron__> they call s5l8900x and s5l8720x H1
Nov 08 05:28:06 <chron__> and then s5l8920x and s5l8922x H2
Nov 08 05:28:24 <geist> apple is big on code names
Nov 08 05:28:30 <geist> usually letter + digit
Nov 08 05:28:43 <chron__> i know it's not apple specific either, and whatever it is, other "H2" boards for example have sdram at the same place that apple's "H2" boards do
Nov 08 05:28:44 <geist> most of the time it is absolutely meaningless, for obvious reaons
Nov 08 05:29:02 <chron__> ie. nor @ 0x82000000
Nov 08 05:29:10 <chron__> sdram @ 0x84000000
Nov 08 05:29:11 <chron__> ie
Nov 08 05:29:14 <chron__> *etc
Nov 08 05:29:31 <geist> hah, 84000000 that brings back memories
Nov 08 05:29:38 <chron__> lol
Nov 08 05:29:43 <chron__> isn't that palm pre nor?
Nov 08 05:29:48 <geist> one of these days you'll be able to spout off an address and i'll tell you what SOC it is
Nov 08 05:29:55 <chron__> well
Nov 08 05:30:00 <geist> 0x02000000 0x0, 0x80000000, 0xa0000000, etc
Nov 08 05:30:02 <chron__> 0x82000000 is sdram on the pre
Nov 08 05:30:07 <geist> yep. that's omap
Nov 08 05:30:09 <chron__> so its a bit different
Nov 08 05:30:19 <chron__> on iphone 0x82000000 is nor
Nov 08 05:30:24 <geist> QC stuff is usually 0 or 0x10000000
Nov 08 05:30:30 <chron__> well actually its spi0 which is hooked to nor
Nov 08 05:30:32 <geist> one of the other ones i've dealt with was 0xa0000000
Nov 08 05:30:45 <chron__> which was that?
Nov 08 05:30:55 <geist> dont remember. mx31?
Nov 08 05:31:02 <chron__> ah that freescale thing?
Nov 08 05:31:11 <geist> yeah, got one of those in my garage somewhere
Nov 08 05:31:14 <chron__> didn't iPhone use that during EARLY ass prototyping stages
Nov 08 05:31:27 <bpadalino> mx31 was a decent processor
Nov 08 05:31:39 <geist> i got this mx31 from someone else. leftovers for some prototyping thing at their company
Nov 08 05:31:44 <geist> i meant to hack it, but meh
Nov 08 05:32:01 <geist> yeah, freescale tends to make decent stuff
Nov 08 05:32:22 <bpadalino> yeah, absolutely
Nov 08 05:32:39 <geist> for the most part my little world is TI > freescale > samsung > QC
Nov 08 05:32:50 <chron__> hmm
Nov 08 05:32:54 <bpadalino> TI has been making some REALLY slick micros lately
Nov 08 05:32:55 <chron__> "mx31ads"
Nov 08 05:32:59 <bpadalino> or atleast releasing them
Nov 08 05:32:59 <chron__> wtf does "ads" mean :P
Nov 08 05:33:06 <bpadalino> that OMAP L138 looks nice to me ..
Nov 08 05:33:22 <geist> more importantly TI is good people
Nov 08 05:33:33 <bpadalino> they are pissing me off with this old OMAP2 stuff at work .. :(
Nov 08 05:33:39 <bpadalino> but we should ahve never used that chip
Nov 08 05:33:45 <chron__> http://pastie.org/688593
Nov 08 05:33:59 <chron__> "kernelcache.release.mx31ads"
Nov 08 05:34:17 <geist> dunno. can't talk about that chron__
Nov 08 05:34:20 <chron__> if "mx31ads" means "mx31" i guess iphone did used to use it :P
Nov 08 05:34:29 <bpadalino> ADS is a dev board
Nov 08 05:34:49 <chron__> geist: oh, i was just asking what "ads" stood for
Nov 08 05:35:01 <geist> i think it stands for Just Google It
Nov 08 05:35:01 <chron__> i know obviously you are not allowed to confirm/deny anything or you could get into trouble
Nov 08 05:35:08 <chron__> lol
Nov 08 05:35:33 <bpadalino> http://www.imxdev.org/wiki/index.php?title=I.MX31_ADS_Board_Flashing
Nov 08 05:35:57 <bpadalino> geist, who is QC ?
Nov 08 05:36:03 <bpadalino> oh
Nov 08 05:36:04 <bpadalino> qualcomm
Nov 08 05:36:54 <geist> got a few atmel micros too. they're fun
Nov 08 05:37:06 <chron__> avrs are the shit
Nov 08 05:37:13 <chron__> cheap as hell
Nov 08 05:37:29 <geist> well, that's why i'm designing my own
Nov 08 05:37:37 <geist> actually was working onit a minute ago until irc pulled me in
Nov 08 05:37:44 <geist> having a lot of fun building a cpu in verilog
Nov 08 05:37:46 <bpadalino> designing your own processor ?
Nov 08 05:37:52 <oil> lol
Nov 08 05:38:06 <chron__> wow
Nov 08 05:38:08 <chron__> that's badass
Nov 08 05:38:16 <geist> was looking at llvm as a retargettable back end for it too
Nov 08 05:38:18 <chron__> altho i hate verilog :P
Nov 08 05:38:19 <geist> llvm looks totally bad ass
Nov 08 05:38:24 <bpadalino> yeah llvm is nice
Nov 08 05:38:43 <bpadalino> why verilog ? quicker sim or jsut familiarity?
Nov 08 05:38:45 <geist> i ran a bunch of my floating point vector code through it and it was quite a bit faster on x86
Nov 08 05:38:57 <geist> bpadalino: versus vhdl? familiarity
Nov 08 05:39:04 <bpadalino> i'm a vhdl guy myself :(
Nov 08 05:39:11 <chron__> geist: you doing this for fun?
Nov 08 05:39:16 <geist> yeah, totally
Nov 08 05:39:17 <bpadalino> the strong typing just makes sense to me with hardware
Nov 08 05:39:17 <chron__> if so that's pretty awesome
Nov 08 05:39:36 <chron__> geist: i really don't know if you are being sarcastic
Nov 08 05:39:43 <chron__> because i mean, i personally would :P
Nov 08 05:39:45 <geist> yeah, though i fooled around a bit to figure out what the proper level of specification you should do with verilog
Nov 08 05:39:49 <geist> chron__: no. i'm totally serious
Nov 08 05:39:55 <geist> hacking cpu for fun
Nov 08 05:39:56 <chrisa> geist: that reminds me, do you have any beagle or whatever boards lying around that you don't use now? Debating toying with omething
Nov 08 05:40:05 <chron__> ah ok sweet
Nov 08 05:40:09 <chrisa> Also, ed is here at SHDH
Nov 08 05:40:16 <chron__> i agree, but am much lower level :P
Nov 08 05:40:18 <geist> hmm, wassat?
Nov 08 05:40:23 <geist> and which ed?
Nov 08 05:40:33 <chrisa> wei
Nov 08 05:40:37 <chron__> or higher level, i mean
Nov 08 05:40:43 <chron__> prefer sw shit
Nov 08 05:40:44 <geist> oh supperhappydevhouse
Nov 08 05:40:47 <chrisa> yeah
Nov 08 05:40:52 <geist> whatcha workin on?
Nov 08 05:41:15 * chron__ pretty much has a self-made datasheet for s5l8922x @ this point :P
Nov 08 05:42:25 <chrisa> well, I was working on a a configurable bin parser, then I got off track debating a useful featureset and now I'm wondering whether to scrap it
Nov 08 05:42:50 <geist> chrisa: oh like where you can decribe structures in real time and overlay it with a binary blob?
Nov 08 05:43:17 <chrisa> Not really realtime yet, right now via a config. I was using png headers for my example
Nov 08 05:43:25 <geist> I have been wanting something like that for *args*
Nov 08 05:43:42 <geist> back in 99 when i was reverse engineering ntfs i would have killed for that
Nov 08 05:43:54 <geist> lots of what the heck is at offset 44, etc
Nov 08 05:43:55 <bpadalino> only 10 years too late :(
Nov 08 05:45:02 <chrisa> But then I got curious. Like for instance, png has a 4 byte identifier for a record then 4 bytes listing the record length
Nov 08 05:45:20 <chrisa> Would it be useful to make it configurable via telling it to get the length off an offset?
Nov 08 05:46:04 <geist> yeah, exactly
Nov 08 05:46:35 <chrisa> I think for now I'll just make it static like field = byteX[bit]-byteY[bit]
Nov 08 05:46:42 <chrisa> and have it figure out if it's a string, int, etc
Nov 08 05:46:49 <chrisa> and think about more complex scenarios later
Nov 08 05:48:54 <bpadalino> fancy
Nov 08 05:49:28 <bpadalino> geist, have you figured out your cpu featureset and isa you want to implement ?
Nov 08 05:49:47 <chrisa> I wonder if strings in png eTXt fields are null delimited
Nov 08 05:50:15 <chrisa> nope
Nov 08 05:51:08 <MathieuWhite> Hey guys!
Nov 08 05:52:49 <MathieuWhite> Could anyone send me the default notification.wav file from their pre? please :)
Nov 08 05:53:34 <bpadalino> you should be able to grab it from inside the webos doctor for your phone
Nov 08 05:53:55 <MathieuWhite> I don't have a pre :(
Nov 08 05:54:22 <bpadalino> oh noes
Nov 08 05:54:37 <bpadalino> you can use the direct links to the doctors on the webos-internals website
Nov 08 05:55:45 <MathieuWhite> hmmm
Nov 08 05:56:39 <chrisa> hte displays the date and time in the corner of the app. I have no idea why my hex editor needs to display the time
Nov 08 05:57:14 <oil> so you dont get lost in hex?
Nov 08 06:22:50 <geist> bpadalino: yeah, the first stab is just a 16bit risc machine
Nov 08 08:16:05 <pseich0> Anybody alive in here?
Nov 08 08:22:13 <oil> maybe
Nov 08 09:36:21 <oil> that took a while
Nov 08 09:52:27 <rwhitby> re
Nov 08 09:54:36 <rwhitby> dBsooner: ping
Nov 08 10:50:04 <rwhitby> oil: I just got a cowbell subtitle :-)
Nov 08 10:56:03 <oil> lol
Nov 08 10:58:49 * rwhitby adds the youtube video download patch to Preware
Nov 08 11:32:50 * rwhitby adds the just charge by default patch to Preware
Nov 08 11:33:59 <oil> with that patch, does it just start in dashboard mode?
Nov 08 11:35:00 <rwhitby> yep
Nov 08 11:40:00 <rwhitby> oil: when can we release a new preware with the second line defaulting to version + maintainer ?
Nov 08 11:40:10 <oil> lol
Nov 08 11:40:13 <oil> been busy on wirc
Nov 08 11:40:20 <oil> ill get some stuff done on preware tomorrow
Nov 08 11:40:55 <rwhitby> sweet, thx.
Nov 08 11:50:52 <rwhitby> hmm - only 5 Preware videos on YouTube.  We need a better PR manager.
Nov 08 12:06:00 * freakout will accept a high-paying position, rwhitby ;)
Nov 08 12:06:32 <freakout> But only on the condition we add one of my Speedo pictures to the splash screen. I know oil has wanted that for awhile.
Nov 08 12:07:17 <rwhitby> freakout: you'll get paid twice as much as oil gets paid.
Nov 08 12:07:30 <rwhitby> three times if no speedo picture
Nov 08 12:07:37 <oil> 0x2=0
Nov 08 12:08:42 <freakout> btw, oil, you should totally make a webOS World Clock app to replace the PalmOS one. I miss it deeply
Nov 08 12:08:58 <freakout> Sell it for a buck or two or three or whatever.
Nov 08 12:09:04 <freakout> But give me an ipk since I can't get paid apps.
Nov 08 12:09:11 <freakout> rwhitby: sold!
Nov 08 12:09:56 * oil hits the sack
Nov 08 12:10:38 <rwhitby> I'd pay 4.99 for a good world clock that understood GMT+13:45.
Nov 08 12:11:14 <freakout> +13.45?
Nov 08 12:11:31 <freakout> night, oil
Nov 08 12:11:39 <rwhitby> freakout: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=63
Nov 08 12:12:00 <freakout> ahhh. Family there?
Nov 08 12:12:51 <rwhitby> That's the benchmark for so-called "World" clocks (most of which usually don't even grok :30 time zones).
Nov 08 12:14:37 <rwhitby> The Pre understands Chatham time natively, so it shouldn't be hard for a world-clock app on the Pre to do it properly.
Nov 08 12:14:55 * freakout wants a beautiful graphic
Nov 08 12:15:06 <freakout> 'cause the PalmOS one is actually quite pretty, for PalmOS
Nov 08 12:15:19 <freakout> I need Adelaide, San Diego, Singapore, London
Nov 08 12:15:31 <freakout> Oh, New York would be nice too for East Coast US
Nov 08 12:16:11 <rwhitby> I just want a simple set of rows with a name and a time, and the ability to type in a time in any one of those rows and have the others update for scheduling meetings.
Nov 08 12:16:30 <Mara-sleep> freakout: well you can't have london, it's ours!
Nov 08 12:16:45 * mara-awake ...possibly
Nov 08 12:17:06 <freakout> mara-awake: heh. It's about all that's left of the Empire :p
Nov 08 12:17:17 * rwhitby investigates, since it is starting to sound like an app that he could write himself.
Nov 08 12:17:21 <freakout> rwhitby: lol
Nov 08 12:17:31 * freakout was just googling for javascript code samples
Nov 08 12:18:00 <freakout> rwhitby: http://ajax.phpmagazine.net/2007/01/worldclockr_amazing_javascript.html
Nov 08 12:18:26 <freakout> rwhitby: http://www.javascriptkit.com/script/script2/dropworldclock.shtml
Nov 08 12:18:54 <freakout> The latter one seems the best. Very simple.
Nov 08 12:21:29 <rwhitby> freakout: the latter fails the :30 test.  bzzt.  next player.
Nov 08 12:23:05 <rwhitby> the former seems to pass the :30 and GMT+13:45 tests, but needs manual DST adjustment for the latter.  bzzt.  next player.
Nov 08 12:25:23 <freakout> rwhitby: come now. I thought you were l33t, surely you could code that in yourself with your enormous brain
Nov 08 12:25:48 <rwhitby> freakout: such taunts (which I use regularly) don't work on ,e
Nov 08 12:25:49 <rwhitby> me
Nov 08 12:26:32 * freakout thinks to himself that everyone has their weak spot..
Nov 08 12:27:11 <freakout> anyhoo, bbt. Monday. Ugh.
Nov 08 12:29:11 <rwhitby> luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.systemservice/getPreferenceValues '{"key":"timeZone"}'
Nov 08 12:30:21 <rwhitby> that gets Country, City, ZoneID, offsetFromUTC and supportsDST.
Nov 08 12:30:57 <rwhitby> now how to differentiate DST entry and exit dates ...
Nov 08 12:54:59 <grndslm> YES!!  I'm part of the webOS 1337 now!
Nov 08 12:55:12 <grndslm> finally got webos QI & preware installed
Nov 08 12:55:15 <grndslm> woot! woot!
Nov 08 12:56:31 <grndslm> now i just need to pick up some programming books  :-/
Nov 08 13:13:05 <grndslm> package manager needs to work in landscape mode so i can actually read the scripts better
Nov 08 13:13:10 <grndslm> ... just a thought
Nov 08 13:20:45 <rwhitby> grndslm: that can be your first programming challenge ;-)
Nov 08 13:21:39 <grndslm> that'd be a good one.  only ever touched c & c++
Nov 08 13:21:55 <grndslm> gui programming always looked pretty challenging, but webOS doesn't seem like it'd be so bad
Nov 08 13:25:08 <grndslm> preware is the fuxin' bomb, btw... dunno why it took me all week to download it
Nov 08 13:28:12 <rwhitby> grndslm: we need some more people to make YouTube videos about Preware and advertise it a bit more ...
Nov 08 13:28:35 <grndslm> i could try
Nov 08 13:28:48 <grndslm> just noticed you can zoom in on the preview pics... too sweet
Nov 08 13:29:09 <grndslm> this thing blows palm's app catalog to pieces
Nov 08 13:29:48 <grndslm> helped milobinder or whatever his name is tweak the newest QI guide so people should find it a lot easier to get started with homebrew
Nov 08 13:33:05 <rwhitby> hmm - Preware has 1040 installable items now ..
Nov 08 13:33:25 <grndslm> 1088 for me
Nov 08 13:33:33 <grndslm> i might've changed something in the prefs, tho
Nov 08 13:33:44 <rwhitby> no, you're probably running 1.2.1
Nov 08 13:33:49 <grndslm> yup
Nov 08 13:34:43 <grndslm> does the pre really not use the gpu?  i find it extremely hard to believe that it can zoom the way it does (among many other things) without access to the gpu
Nov 08 13:34:56 <rwhitby> as far as we know, it does not.
Nov 08 13:35:03 <grndslm> crazines
Nov 08 13:35:10 <grndslm> *ness
Nov 08 13:36:29 <grndslm> i tried installing ubuntu netbook remix on a pretty "adequate" desktop and even with nvidia drivers, it seems like the pre moves a couple orders of magnitudes better than UNR
Nov 08 13:36:44 <grndslm> maybe UNR is really tweaked for specific graphics drivers.. dunno
Nov 08 13:43:54 <grndslm> heh... now i can see why nobody buys any apps from the catalog
Nov 08 13:44:18 <Phil1> hi! I got a question: I've installed optware via the webos-internals-tutorial and now it eats up the space on /var... now that Preware allows installing it directly and managing updates as well I'd like to uninstall optware and re-install it using Preware...
Nov 08 13:44:48 <Phil1> I've searched a lot but didn't find any way to uninstall optware though. Any ideas?
Nov 08 13:45:19 <rboatright> Phil1: it's not that simple
Nov 08 13:45:45 <Phil1> *sigh* is it ever?
Nov 08 13:45:56 <rboatright> when you say you installed optware, you mean you did the next-steps functions,  to get ssh  into and out of the phone....   right?
Nov 08 13:46:10 <Phil1> rboatright: yes
Nov 08 13:46:15 <rboatright> k
Nov 08 13:46:48 <rboatright> without wanting to be stupid here,  why would you rip all that out and re-do it through preware?  The space hit will be identical
Nov 08 13:47:39 <Phil1> true, but 1. with Preware it's much easier to update and 2. I hoped to get mvapp working with it then...
Nov 08 13:48:25 <rboatright> you can't mvapp things that aren't apps.
Nov 08 13:48:35 <rboatright> like ssh and so forth.
Nov 08 13:48:40 <rboatright> only "webos" apps
Nov 08 13:48:49 <Phil1> ah ok... thanks, I didn't know that...
Nov 08 13:49:09 <rboatright> the optware stuff is native linux
Nov 08 13:49:16 <rboatright> it has to live where it lives.
Nov 08 13:49:45 <rboatright> having said that, you could take the optware script and print it out and go through it step by step doing ipkg-opt remove pkgname
Nov 08 13:50:07 <rboatright> but when you are done, you won't be anyplace better
Nov 08 13:50:19 <Phil1> pity; would have loved to have some packages, but until the space-limit is fixed it won't work...
Nov 08 13:50:27 <rboatright> nodnod
Nov 08 13:50:38 <rboatright> I know.   I know.
Nov 08 13:50:48 <rboatright> I begrudge the tiny bit of space that nano takes.
Nov 08 13:50:55 <rboatright> but I leave it there since I hate vi
Nov 08 13:51:44 <Phil1> I already deinstalled all packages using ipkg-opt remove xxx -force-removal-of-dependent-packages, but as long as optware is still on there, I couldn't reinstall via Preware... but alas...
Nov 08 13:52:18 <Phil1> I would love to have a working python environment on my palm, but this will have to wait
Nov 08 13:52:50 <Phil1> rboatright: thks again for the info!
Nov 08 13:53:16 <grndslm> time to meta-doctor and make your own partitions!
Nov 08 13:53:31 <grndslm> give yourself 3 gb for /var if you need it!
Nov 08 13:54:38 <grndslm> or whatever directory you're lookin' at  :-x
Nov 08 13:56:51 <rboatright> you mean as long as ipkg-opt is on there Phil1   ???
Nov 08 13:57:49 <rboatright> Phil1:   you could rm -r /opt/*
Nov 08 13:58:09 <rboatright> which pretty much clears out everything the next steps installed....  :-)
Nov 08 14:02:29 <Phil1> rboatright: doesnt the bootstrapper make changes somewhere else?
Nov 08 14:02:56 <rboatright> I don't recall.  You can take a look at the script
Nov 08 14:03:03 <Phil1> grndslm: îs the meta-doctor webos-upgrade safe?
Nov 08 14:03:10 <rboatright> but I thought the only other change was to the path
Nov 08 14:03:18 <grndslm> Phil1:  should be
Nov 08 14:03:35 <grndslm> it only let's you activate a pre without sprint service and resize your partitions
Nov 08 14:03:47 <grndslm> resizing your partitions should definitely be webos-upgrade-safe
Nov 08 14:04:09 <grndslm> it does require a linux desktop
Nov 08 14:04:22 <grndslm> but that shouldn't be too hard to come by, right?
Nov 08 14:04:44 <rboatright> uh  the other thing that it might not be upgrade safe through would be if PALM decides to resize partitions
Nov 08 14:05:10 <Phil1> rboatright: grndslm: I'll have a look at it... thanks! I have to be gone, my newborn needs some fresh diapers + air :)
Nov 08 14:05:20 <grndslm> later
Nov 08 14:05:31 <grndslm> rboat: does webos use lvm?
Nov 08 14:05:38 <grndslm> don't see how they could resize partitions without that
Nov 08 14:05:40 <rboatright> no idea
Nov 08 14:05:54 <grndslm> and if it is using lvm, they should've done that in 1.2.0
Nov 08 14:06:35 <grndslm> yea, i need to stop fooling around with these beer aps and get a terminal
Nov 08 14:10:56 <Abyssul_wIRC> Hey guys
Nov 08 14:11:49 <grndslm> yo yo yodel
Nov 08 14:17:57 <rwhitby> grndslm: yes, webos uses lvm
Nov 08 14:19:09 <balrog-k1n> can you back up a partition using trenchcoat?
Nov 08 14:19:27 <balrog-k1n> or tell it to not touch one of the partitions (/var) in castle.xml?
Nov 08 14:31:26 <grndslm> rwhitby:  interesting... so why isn't there a patch for that?  instead of having to use the meta?
Nov 08 14:31:46 <rwhitby> grndslm: a patch for lvm resizing?
Nov 08 14:32:02 <grndslm> well... a script
Nov 08 14:32:06 <grndslm> whatever you wanna call it
Nov 08 14:32:32 <balrog-k1n> apparently something like reformat="false" can be specified in castle.xml for physical partitions... wonder if that can be used fo lvm volumes too
Nov 08 14:32:33 <rwhitby> grndslm: cause you have to get the space from somewhere ...
Nov 08 14:32:56 <rwhitby> balrog-k1n: I didn't have much luck with that, but didn't try too hard either.
Nov 08 14:33:04 <grndslm> that's why you script it not to do anything unless /media has x amount free
Nov 08 14:33:17 <grndslm> ... and then inform the user multiple times that they need x amount free
Nov 08 14:33:21 <rwhitby> grndslm: do you have a vfat online resize tool?
Nov 08 14:33:27 <grndslm> mmm no
Nov 08 14:33:28 <balrog-k1n> rwhitby: i'd really like to get it right the first time as i have  data on /var that i can't back up now :)
Nov 08 14:33:42 <grndslm> oh yea, i forgot /media was fat
Nov 08 14:33:53 <ttgb> is anyone developing non-english IME?
Nov 08 14:37:28 <rwhitby> balrog-k1n: btw, there is no known trenchcoat manual, and questions like that are best asked in here, cause #webos is supposed to be related to the official APIs only.
Nov 08 14:38:56 <grndslm> was wondering the difference between the 2 channels
Nov 08 14:39:50 <balrog-k1n> rwhitby: thanks, i asked there partly by misremembering window number
Nov 08 14:40:30 <rwhitby> grndslm: see /topic
Nov 08 14:41:03 <balrog-k1n> it looks like i can tell it to not touch the lvm partition at all but still reformat /boot, i wonder if it'll be smart enough to install the files from the rootfs tarball that belong in /boot and ignore the rest
Nov 08 14:41:32 <rwhitby> balrog-k1n: I bet it overwrites the rest
Nov 08 14:42:16 <balrog-k1n> rwhitby: i commented out the rest of castle.xml so it won't even know there's an lvm volume there, the line is now
Nov 08 14:42:19 <balrog-k1n> <Entry type="space" size="*" reformat="false" />
Nov 08 14:42:22 <balrog-k1n> so i'm optimistic
Nov 08 14:42:46 <rwhitby> balrog-k1n: I bet it fills / then :-)
Nov 08 14:43:36 <balrog-k1n> the thing is it doesn't know where / would be, unless it's hardcoded in trenchcoat
Nov 08 14:45:36 <balrog-k1n> i found reports of successfully using trenchcoat to just reflash the bootloader partition, on the intarwebs, with castle.xml containing one line for the bootie partition and another <Entry type="space" size="*" reformat="false" />
Nov 08 14:48:38 <rwhitby> balrog-k1n: i think it reads /etc/fstab
Nov 08 14:49:12 <rwhitby> balrog-k1n: reference?
Nov 08 14:49:35 <balrog-k1n> rwhitby: http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/184378-ok-rom-comes-13.html#post1662611
Nov 08 14:50:13 <balrog-k1n> (actually three lines)
Nov 08 14:51:28 <balrog-k1n> really curious if this trick would work for a lvm volume
Nov 08 14:53:48 <rwhitby> balrog-k1n: actually, while I was testing the keyboard stuff, I did exactly that, and since there were no LVM lines it didn't do any lvm stuff.
Nov 08 14:54:16 <rwhitby> (you can run trenchcoat against a file instead of a mmc card for testing, and then examine what happens to the file)
Nov 08 14:55:35 <balrog-k1n> rwhitby: good idea!
Nov 08 14:58:30 * rwhitby bbl - good luck balrog-k1n
Nov 08 15:34:24 <balrog-k1n> well, trenchcoat failed to reflash /boot and leave other partitions intact because, if i understand what the exception says, the RootFilesystem element must be in the xml file if there's any filesystem operation specified (as opposed to operations of just flashing an image)
Nov 08 15:35:55 <balrog-k1n> however, it did boot linux on the otherwise bricked device, off a ramdisk and left it running on it when webOS doctor quit
Nov 08 15:36:17 <balrog-k1n> so now i have a terminal session on it and can repair the fs which is what i wanted
Nov 08 15:56:12 <balrog-k1n> heh
Nov 08 15:56:14 <balrog-k1n> [2000/1/1 0:26:55] Couldn't open novacomctl socket (use more sudo)
Nov 08 16:19:53 <BoBoYsDaDDa> alright so who knows how to remove a theme that doesn't show up in preware?
Nov 08 16:20:24 <AnOutsider> repair utility?
Nov 08 16:21:00 <BoBoYsDaDDa> is that something i run from preware?
Nov 08 16:22:51 <AnOutsider> nope
Nov 08 16:23:06 <AnOutsider> http://www.precentral.net/webos-repair-utility-updated-121
Nov 08 16:23:37 <AnOutsider> EPR may do it as well depending on how the theme was installed
Nov 08 16:58:11 <wIRCer> hello
Nov 08 16:58:43 <wIRCer> I am using wirc for he pre! cool!
Nov 08 16:59:00 <wIRCer> anyone know how to change my nick? and not show wIRCer??
Nov 08 16:59:13 <BoBoYsDaDDa> ./nick yourselectednick
Nov 08 16:59:17 <BoBoYsDaDDa> -.
Nov 08 16:59:35 <trim> testing
Nov 08 16:59:49 <trim> wahooo!!, wowww wirc is amaziinnngg
Nov 08 17:00:03 <trim> anyway I can register this nick?
Nov 08 17:00:32 <BoBoYsDaDDa> with webos-internals? i didn't know we were supposed to register
Nov 08 17:01:07 <trim> oh no, just don't want to have to always chane ./nick when logging on with wirc
Nov 08 17:01:41 <BoBoYsDaDDa> oh it may have a setting to do it. i don't know i haven't played with wirc yet
Nov 08 17:02:08 <trim> this is reeallllly sweet Guys. cheers to a great irc client!
Nov 08 17:03:16 <trim81> k
Nov 08 17:04:39 <balrog-k1n> this is really strange: all of the original kernel modules on the shipped rootfs are about 10 times smaller than the hand built ones
Nov 08 17:05:07 <haeffb> there are not seven servings in a bag of totinos pizza rolls...
Nov 08 17:05:58 <balrog-k1n> also somebody has reported that the modules in hand built kernels from palm patched sources, don't load (particularly g_composite)
Nov 08 17:06:44 <balrog-k1n> i noticed it's 10 times bigger than the original g_composite driver which does load even into custom kernels
Nov 08 17:16:27 <entity-> anyone use greg_rolls msging patch?
Nov 08 17:17:13 <BoBoYsDaDDa> will webos doctor delete my contacts?
Nov 08 17:25:50 <balrog-k1n> has anyone had LunaSysMgr crashes in LSCategorySetData () from /usr/lib/liblunaservice.so (according to the core dumps in /var/log/..)?
Nov 08 17:33:00 <balrog-k1n> what is really cool is that kernel panics are stored in /var/log too
Nov 08 17:34:21 <entity-> will doctoring delted my /media/internal
Nov 08 17:34:40 <entity-> ?
Nov 08 17:35:40 <balrog-k1n> entity-: yes, it will
Nov 08 17:37:10 <BoBoYsDaDDa> ok i need help i'm trying to uninstall my theme and its not viewable in preware to remove
Nov 08 17:38:20 <AnOutsider> [11:20] <AnOutsider> repair utility?[11:20] <BoBoYsDaDDa> is that something i run from preware?[11:22] <AnOutsider> nope[11:22] <AnOutsider> http://www.precentral.net/webos-repair-utility-updated-121[11:23] <AnOutsider> EPR may do it as well depending on how the theme was installed
Nov 08 17:38:33 <AnOutsider> have you tried what has already been suggested?
Nov 08 17:38:59 <BoBoYsDaDDa> can't get repair utility to run at all
Nov 08 17:39:23 <entity-> im having this really annouying problem with msging where my conversations arent listing in the conversation box anymor eyou have to go in there and seaerch for them
Nov 08 17:39:24 <BoBoYsDaDDa> ran EPR didn't help
Nov 08 17:39:45 <AnOutsider> entity- that issue has been discussed on precentral
Nov 08 17:40:12 <trim> entity, remove the broken contact and readd ir
Nov 08 17:40:30 <entity-> oh outsider what should i seeaarch for
Nov 08 17:40:47 <AnOutsider> im searching now, but what trim posted was the recommended solution
Nov 08 17:40:51 <AnOutsider> unlink the contact and re-link
Nov 08 17:40:56 <AnOutsider> not sure why it does that
Nov 08 17:41:05 <entity-> its sms msgs?
Nov 08 17:41:10 <trim> happens to me alot with my twitter contact
Nov 08 17:41:39 <trim> entity: go to your contacts book and delete the broken contact, then readd it
Nov 08 17:41:54 <entity-> oh fuck there is a lot
Nov 08 17:41:57 <BoBoYsDaDDa> finally got repair utility to work
Nov 08 17:42:11 <BoBoYsDaDDa> i have the webos doctor in 3 diffent places now
Nov 08 17:42:18 <trim> lol; how many sms conversations got jacked up?
Nov 08 17:42:32 <entity-> lots
Nov 08 17:42:41 <trim> over 10?
Nov 08 17:42:45 <AnOutsider> maybe try deleting the conversations when you find them?
Nov 08 17:42:47 <entity-> what happened was ai had way to many and i needed to delete some
Nov 08 17:43:00 <entity-> so i delted all conversations
Nov 08 17:43:07 <entity-> by swiping them away
Nov 08 17:43:21 <entity-> and then i noticed the next txt i sent i could see all the history
Nov 08 17:43:27 <trim> yah, I noticed that when you have a big buildup, then delete all...it kills it (like my twitter contact)
Nov 08 17:43:48 <trim> so the fix is: delete the broken contact from ur contacts, then readd it
Nov 08 17:44:19 <entity-> oh i guess ill have to write down all the phone numbers
Nov 08 17:44:23 <entity-> this is annouying
Nov 08 17:44:49 <trim> yah, short of doctoring it..that's the known fix
Nov 08 17:44:54 <trim> just do it one by one
Nov 08 17:45:52 <trim> anyone know of any other active palm pre irc channels?
Nov 08 17:46:16 <trim> I'm loving this wirc client for the pre
Nov 08 17:48:30 <entity-> lol
Nov 08 17:48:37 <entity-> now i fucked it up
Nov 08 17:48:43 <trim> what happend
Nov 08 17:49:09 <BoBoYsDaDDa> trim try here http://tinyurl.com/y8nxtqt
Nov 08 17:50:45 <trim> heh
Nov 08 17:51:03 <entity-> OHH
Nov 08 17:51:08 <entity-> 8i figured out an easier way
Nov 08 17:51:31 <entity-> the unlinking thing you were say
Nov 08 17:51:41 <entity-> just unlink on of there profiles
Nov 08 17:51:44 <entity-> and relink
Nov 08 17:51:52 <entity-> and then it shows it up
Nov 08 17:52:06 <trim> can you be more speicifc
Nov 08 17:52:13 <trim> did you go into contacts?
Nov 08 17:52:37 <Manifest> Hi, can anyone give me the download link for WOQI?
Nov 08 17:53:12 <entity-> in contacts
Nov 08 17:53:28 <entity-> i went into one of the effected peopl contacts
Nov 08 17:53:37 <entity-> i unlinked one of their profiles
Nov 08 17:53:39 <trim> manifest: go to precentral.net discussion board, click on webos debelopers, click on canuck software
Nov 08 17:53:40 <entity-> then relinked
Nov 08 17:53:45 <entity-> and it fixed it for that person
Nov 08 17:53:46 <Manifest> trim: thank you.
Nov 08 17:54:18 <trim> entity: cool, that will be useful if it happens to me
Nov 08 17:54:38 <entity-> i guess if they are only in there once you are screwed
Nov 08 17:55:49 <Manifest> trim: Can't seem to find it, can you link me directly?
Nov 08 17:56:23 <entity-> how do you deleted a contact?
Nov 08 17:56:31 <trim> sorry I'm on my mobile
Nov 08 17:56:38 <trim> not using a PC
Nov 08 17:57:05 <Manifest> trim: wonderful :P
Nov 08 17:57:09 <trim> entity: upper left drop down
Nov 08 17:57:42 <Manifest> trim: got it
Nov 08 17:58:13 <trim> cool
Nov 08 18:01:43 <entity-> haha
Nov 08 18:01:56 <entity-> found a better way to then writin it all down
Nov 08 18:02:05 <entity-> i sent contact to myself via email
Nov 08 18:02:09 <entity-> delted it
Nov 08 18:02:15 <entity-> and re-added the vcard
Nov 08 18:06:39 <entity-> trim
Nov 08 18:06:50 <trim> sup
Nov 08 18:06:51 <entity-> did you see the better way then writing it down?
Nov 08 18:07:00 <entity-> [10:01:58] <entity-> haha
Nov 08 18:07:01 <entity-> [10:02:10] <entity-> found a better way to then writin it all down
Nov 08 18:07:01 <entity-> [10:02:20] <entity-> i sent contact to myself via email
Nov 08 18:07:02 <entity-> [10:02:23] <entity-> delted it
Nov 08 18:07:02 <entity-> [10:02:29] <entity-> and re-added the vcard
Nov 08 18:07:28 <trim> hmm I didn't know palmpre can send vcard
Nov 08 18:07:51 <trim> that's sweet, but shouldn't you have a backup on gmail sync?
Nov 08 18:08:17 <entity-> don't know
Nov 08 18:08:23 <entity-> i don't sync my gma8il syncs
Nov 08 18:08:59 <trim> so ur syncing ur data to palm profile?
Nov 08 18:10:40 <entity-> i have no idea
Nov 08 18:10:56 <punzada> yannow there are a few things that just drive me nuts with webOS >>
Nov 08 18:11:31 <trim> punzada what's that
Nov 08 18:12:55 <punzada> forcing IM buddies into contacts, no option to leave wifi enabled while screen is turned off, not changable notification options, no 'find' within a browser
Nov 08 18:13:05 <AnOutsider> entity- should post that in that thread
Nov 08 18:13:09 <punzada> some of that is patchable
Nov 08 18:13:12 <punzada> some not
Nov 08 18:13:44 <trim> punzada look for homebrew app nodoze
Nov 08 18:13:51 <trim> I use it to keep wifi always on
Nov 08 18:13:51 <punzada> that just leaves the screen on
Nov 08 18:13:55 <punzada> and still wastes battery >>
Nov 08 18:14:03 <punzada> I use timepiece to keep it on when I need
Nov 08 18:14:13 <trim> nope, screen not always on with nodoze buddy
Nov 08 18:14:23 <punzada> O.o
Nov 08 18:14:26 <trim> I use it for wifi always on, works perfect
Nov 08 18:14:32 <punzada> I thought it just kept the screen on, that I did not know
Nov 08 18:14:45 <trim> ya install it...it will do wonders
Nov 08 18:14:49 * punzada loads up preware
Nov 08 18:15:06 <entity-> outsider do you know how to find that thread?
Nov 08 18:15:12 <trim> for changeable notificaions: I use homebrew My Notifications
Nov 08 18:15:37 * punzada nods
Nov 08 18:16:12 <trim> I agree thoug messaging and sms should be seperate
Nov 08 18:16:27 <trim> it gets confusing being in the same screen
Nov 08 18:17:08 <punzada> it also drives me nuts that they are just trickling in IM support (yes, I know there's the plugin but its hackish to say the least) - with all the options that libpurple supports they're barely using it
Nov 08 18:17:27 <trim> punzada I am currently typing on wirc for the palm pre
Nov 08 18:17:35 <trim> it works perfecrly so far
Nov 08 18:17:40 <trim> I recommend it
Nov 08 18:17:51 <trim> look of precentral, under webos apps
Nov 08 18:17:59 <punzada> wirc is nice, I like using irssi on my pre since I use the same right now on my regular pc ;p
Nov 08 18:18:13 <punzada> only thing is its a little slow to refresh within the terminal app, would love to speed that up a bit
Nov 08 18:18:56 <trim> have you tried wirc? nice ui
Nov 08 18:19:01 <trim> I never used irssi tho
Nov 08 18:19:06 <trim> can't compare them
Nov 08 18:19:18 <punzada> irssi is clunky but I'm a terminal geek so I like it lol
Nov 08 18:19:33 <punzada> does wirc have multiple network support yet?
Nov 08 18:19:45 <trim> as far as I know, no..
Nov 08 18:19:50 <punzada> ah, I see.
Nov 08 18:19:58 <trim> but then I barely installed this 30min ago
Nov 08 18:19:59 <trim> lol
Nov 08 18:20:02 <punzada> kinda useless for me at the moment then, I'll wait until it's more flushed out
Nov 08 18:20:05 <punzada> ah, lol.
Nov 08 18:20:50 <trim> I wonder what will happen if I leave my pre idling in webinternals all day
Nov 08 18:20:57 <trim> will my pre become sluggish?
Nov 08 18:21:32 <punzada> I wouldn't know, haven't seen wirc's memory usage first hand, some clever devs working on it though so I doubt it
Nov 08 18:21:40 <entity-> #wirc
Nov 08 18:23:41 <balrog-k1n> humm
Nov 08 18:23:47 <balrog-k1n> [root@castle linux-2.6.24]# hwclock -h
Nov 08 18:23:47 <trim> did you get nodoze installed?
Nov 08 18:23:51 <balrog-k1n> BusyBox v1.11.2 () multi-call binary
Nov 08 18:23:54 <balrog-k1n> Usage: hwclock [OPTION] [hostname | -F FILE]
Nov 08 18:23:56 <balrog-k1n> Get or set hostname or DNS domain name
Nov 08 18:25:34 <rboatright> tim you could use palm's new memory checking tool
Nov 08 18:26:11 <balrog-k1n> oh, this is even better
Nov 08 18:26:39 <balrog-k1n> now the "hostname" command calls some totally different function too
Nov 08 18:26:58 <balrog-k1n> what a mess
Nov 08 18:27:14 <balrog-k1n> hexdump i think
Nov 08 18:27:40 <balrog-k1n> now let's see what "hexdump" does on webOS
Nov 08 18:28:15 <balrog-k1n> apparently "hexdump" is "head", "head" is "gzip" and so on
Nov 08 18:31:40 <balrog-k1n> apparently the only reason actual scripts work is because they use ash which is itself a busybox command
Nov 08 18:31:51 <balrog-k1n> surely enough "id" is hwclock on my system
Nov 08 18:41:58 <kesne> Lol, iPhone on the island of misfit toys. xD I love verizon
Nov 08 18:58:05 <BoBoYsDaDDa> ok so i've tried EPR and the webos repair utility and i can't fix this theme so that i can remove it
Nov 08 19:05:30 <BoBoYsDaDDa> ok i think google finally may have worked trying step three of this now http://forums.precentral.net/webos-patches/211135-corrupt-patch-removal-steps.html#post1994414
Nov 08 19:56:43 <haeffb> irc.freenode.net
Nov 08 20:19:48 <Ramer> Can someone help? I am trying to install the battery patch as percent. I've had it installed before but now I get the following error: An error occurred while attempting to run /tmp/ipkgScript.sh and alot more after that. I'm assuming I have some remains of the previous patch. Can someone show me how to remove it?
Nov 08 21:00:47 <dBsooner> egaudet: ping
Nov 08 21:06:35 <rwhitby> balrog-k1n: the help for busybox is off-by-one
Nov 08 21:07:48 <rwhitby> dBsooner: ping
Nov 08 21:09:17 <BoBoYsDaDDa> any precentral staff on here?
Nov 08 21:11:48 <dBsooner> rwhitby: pong
Nov 08 21:11:55 <dBsooner> I see you made some changes and I am working on thsoe now
Nov 08 21:12:22 <rwhitby> dBsooner: I added a Notifications category, and added two patches that I wanted on my Pre :-)
Nov 08 21:12:33 <dBsooner> lol
Nov 08 21:12:35 <dBsooner> ok
Nov 08 21:12:42 <dBsooner> rwhitby: What am I doing wrong with the 1.3.1 tags?
Nov 08 21:12:50 <dBsooner> Here is what I have done:
Nov 08 21:13:04 <dBsooner> git branch webos-1.3.1 origin/webos-1.3.1
Nov 08 21:13:10 <dBsooner> git checkout webos-1.3.1
Nov 08 21:13:13 <dBsooner> make all my changes
Nov 08 21:13:18 <dBsooner> git commit -m "blah"
Nov 08 21:13:21 <dBsooner> git push
Nov 08 21:13:28 <dBsooner> git tag v1.3.1-XX
Nov 08 21:13:31 <dBsooner> git push --tags
Nov 08 21:13:36 <dBsooner> git checkout master
Nov 08 21:13:55 <dBsooner> IS that your process?
Nov 08 21:14:00 <fearphage> just to be clear, is the source of the  underlying os open source?
Nov 08 21:14:37 <fearphage> or is this mostly changing/updating the palm provided cards?
Nov 08 21:16:19 <PreGame> any of you good with dashboards?
Nov 08 21:18:22 <rwhitby> fearphage: webOS is not open source
Nov 08 21:18:35 <rwhitby> dBsooner: that works for me
Nov 08 21:18:51 <dBsooner> rwhitby: odd.. guess we'll see the next time I get a commit to 1.3.1
Nov 08 21:18:53 <fearphage> rwhitby: thank you
Nov 08 21:19:00 <dBsooner> rwhitby: I am making a spreadsheet of all packages
Nov 08 21:19:09 <dBsooner> it will have pacakgeid and version
Nov 08 21:19:17 <dBsooner> so we know at a glance the ones that have 1.3.1 and 1.2.1
Nov 08 21:19:25 <rwhitby> fearphage: Linux and a lot of the normal userspace linux apps are open source, and some of the UI webOS code is not open source but is plain text and patchable.
Nov 08 21:19:44 <dBsooner> but PuffTheMagic is having a hard time giving me the bash commands to create said CSV
Nov 08 21:20:02 <Decimate> im anxious for 1.3.1, mostly because i dont know exactly what's so great about.
Nov 08 21:20:04 <Decimate> it.
Nov 08 21:20:23 <PreGame> i hear its slowed peoples phones down
Nov 08 21:20:24 <rwhitby> dBsooner: ipkg -o /var list > file.txt, then import into Excel with ' - ' as the delimiter.
Nov 08 21:20:27 <PreGame> i have yet to try it
Nov 08 21:20:31 <BoBoYsDaDDa> is there an expected release date on it?
Nov 08 21:20:47 <Decimate> is there an expected leak date? :)
Nov 08 21:20:55 <dBsooner> rwhitby: smarta$$.
Nov 08 21:20:57 <dBsooner> xD
Nov 08 21:21:03 * sugardave isn't brave enough to put 1.3.1 on his phone yet.
Nov 08 21:21:09 <rwhitby> BoBoYsDaDDa: lots of "informed opinions" (i.e. straight out gesses) from the tech blogs, but nothing official of course.
Nov 08 21:21:13 * Decimate wishes he had it to try.
Nov 08 21:21:23 <PreGame> i heard people that had 1.3.1 on their phone went back to 1.2.1 because it was so slow
Nov 08 21:21:36 <dBsooner> shh.. ;)
Nov 08 21:21:45 <freakout-work> I heard that 1.3.1 made some Pres explode
Nov 08 21:21:52 <rwhitby> I heard it made the phone 10 times faster due to GPU usage.  Of course that was rubbish too ;-)
Nov 08 21:21:53 <Decimate> well when anyone wants to pass it my way, ill do a review :)
Nov 08 21:21:57 <freakout-work> and that Bigfoor had been spotted with one
Nov 08 21:22:06 <PreGame> i heard 1.3.1 makes your phone transform into an iPhone
Nov 08 21:22:13 <rwhitby> Decimate: please do not incite NDA breakage on this channel.
Nov 08 21:22:14 <Decimate> NO
Nov 08 21:22:27 <dBsooner> see
Nov 08 21:22:38 <dBsooner> chrisa is gonna go loco on us
Nov 08 21:22:38 <Decimate> rwhitby: just BSing around.
Nov 08 21:22:38 <sugardave> ~kick Decimate
Nov 08 21:22:40 * infobot kicks Decimate
Nov 08 21:22:52 <rwhitby> Decimate: please don't.  it's a serious matter.
Nov 08 21:23:01 <Decimate> fair enough.
Nov 08 21:23:04 <PreGame> i need help with a dashboard
Nov 08 21:23:08 <ni|> can you guys please relax, he just was playing.
Nov 08 21:23:49 <rwhitby> If 1.3.1 gets leaked to bittorrent or whatever, then Palm will be more restrictive next time, and the community will suffer cause the patches won't be updated before release.  Do you guys really want that to happen?
Nov 08 21:24:28 <PreGame> seeing as how its an open beta system i doubt that will happen
Nov 08 21:24:31 <ni|> rwhitby: there are only a select few people who have it presumably, him requesting it from someone it was trusted to should result in it not being handed over.  The buck stops there; his suggestions is meaningless.
Nov 08 21:24:48 <freakout-work> rwhitby: Not to mention those jerk bloggers who report on pre-release SDKs
Nov 08 21:24:59 <PreGame> anyone that requested access received it
Nov 08 21:25:01 <freakout-work> rwhitby: I hate those guys.
Nov 08 21:25:14 * Decimate hates freakout-work ;)
Nov 08 21:25:22 <freakout-work> lol
Nov 08 21:25:26 <rwhitby> PreGame: not everyone.  plenty of people asked and were rejected.
Nov 08 21:25:32 <freakout-work> Notice how Precentral buried the thread on that, too?
Nov 08 21:25:39 <fearphage> is it too late to ask?
Nov 08 21:25:40 <PreGame> if you are a developer and asked you received access
Nov 08 21:26:00 <rwhitby> PreGame: yep.
Nov 08 21:26:12 <ni|> i'm a developer, and i don't know who to ask.
Nov 08 21:26:27 <PreGame> read the palm forums
Nov 08 21:26:31 <rwhitby> ni|: you need to start reading PreCentral then ;-)
Nov 08 21:26:44 <PreGame> http://developer.palm.com
Nov 08 21:27:20 <Decimate> im clueless on how to get 1.3.1
Nov 08 21:27:26 <PreGame> this is pissing me off can't figure out why my showDashboard code isn't working in deactivate now
Nov 08 21:27:37 <PreGame> it gets executed completely without errors but doesn't show the dash
Nov 08 21:27:56 <dBsooner> PreGame: it's not an open beta system.
Nov 08 21:28:02 <rwhitby> Palm is not a single thought process.  One should expect that there are internal differing opinions (perhaps between Marketing and Developer Relations?) on how open the sdk beta should be.  If we stuff it up, then we give ammunition to the side that doesn't want it exposed early.
Nov 08 21:28:06 <dBsooner> woops.. I hadn't scrolled.
Nov 08 21:28:10 <dBsooner> nm
Nov 08 21:28:36 <ni|> rwhitby: i don't have time, i'm busy with school and pre-dev :P
Nov 08 21:28:40 * dBsooner agrees with rwhitby.
Nov 08 21:29:07 <rwhitby> ni|: access musn't be that important to you then, or you would make time ;-)
Nov 08 21:29:09 * freakout-work thinks Palm would be cutting off their nose to spite their face if they did cut off early access
Nov 08 21:29:31 <rwhitby> freakout-work: companies often do that depending on which internal group wins ...
Nov 08 21:29:45 <freakout-work> rwhitby: don't I know it.....
Nov 08 21:30:20 <lingfish> hi
Nov 08 21:30:24 <freakout-work> But Palm can't afford to, really. They've got cash in the bank, now, but they desperately need to attract developers to the platform.
Nov 08 21:30:53 <ni|> rwhitby: condescending much?
Nov 08 21:31:18 <rwhitby> ni|: just opinions - feel free to disagree.
Nov 08 21:31:34 <rwhitby> ni|: but please be aware of the charter of this channel.
Nov 08 21:31:45 <ni|> which is what? you are god?
Nov 08 21:31:51 * Decimate just wanted 1.3.1, got an arguement in return :/
Nov 08 21:32:24 <rwhitby> ni|: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS-Internals_IRC_Channel_Policy
Nov 08 21:32:24 <freakout-work> ni|: PreCentral censors anyway if they don't like the thread. My respect for their journalistic / community principles went down like a lead balloon
Nov 08 21:32:45 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: i guess since some people dont do any coding they have plenty of time to read blogs and forums
Nov 08 21:33:16 <ni|> rwhitby: i read docs, not channel policies
Nov 08 21:33:22 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: you're probably right - people who don't do coding must be so lazy and such a drain on the community for not contributing anything useful at all ;-)
Nov 08 21:33:31 * haeffb asked and didn't get 1.3.1 - has app submitted but not in catalog.
Nov 08 21:33:33 <ni|> i'm not swearing like you said, i'm just saying i don't have time to read some blog about how to get into the in crowd
Nov 08 21:33:38 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: you just put words in my mouth
Nov 08 21:34:11 <sugardave> haeffb: hmm, might send another email, or they may only give out if it's already in the catalog
Nov 08 21:34:23 <Decimate> rwhitby: so if you don't code, you're useless to this community?
Nov 08 21:34:31 <ni|> Decimate: sarcasm
Nov 08 21:34:42 <Decimate> ive never heard rwhitby be sarcastic.
Nov 08 21:34:44 <haeffb> I was told if you don't have an app in the catalog, you don't get it.
Nov 08 21:34:45 <lingfish> wtf is going on here?!
Nov 08 21:35:08 <sugardave> i've neaver heard rwhitby
Nov 08 21:35:08 <rwhitby> Decimate: yes, it was sarcasm, in response to PuffTheMagic's statement.
Nov 08 21:35:28 * haeffb is done being offtopic.
Nov 08 21:35:42 <rwhitby> sugardave: you can get 45 minutes of my mellifluous tones if you
Nov 08 21:35:52 <rwhitby> are really wanting to hurt your ears.
Nov 08 21:36:22 <freakout-work> PuffTheMagic: *cough* *cough*
Nov 08 21:36:52 <freakout-work> PuffTheMagic: Non-coders do other useful things. For instance, I make a mean bolognese.
Nov 08 21:37:21 <rwhitby> freakout-work: PuffTheMagic never said coders didn't do useful things - that was my sarcastic statement, not his.
Nov 08 21:37:27 <PuffTheMagic> freakout-work: i NEVER said they dont do useful things, i just implied that some people dont have time to read blogs and forums all day long
Nov 08 21:37:36 <rwhitby> he just said non-coders had plenty of time on their hands.
Nov 08 21:38:01 <rwhitby> maybe they are just more efficient and effective at the things they do contribute ;-)
Nov 08 21:38:08 * ni| sighs
Nov 08 21:38:42 <ni|> it just doesn't make sense for a programmer to go anywhere else but palm dev site to get what they need
Nov 08 21:38:51 <ni|> precentral should be mutually exclusive
Nov 08 21:39:12 <PuffTheMagic> ni|: our wiki has useful dev shit
Nov 08 21:39:15 <ni|> i'm just concerned this community, while open, is cliquey as hell and it will suffer.
Nov 08 21:39:33 <ni|> as i've been met with resistance (and good information) already
Nov 08 21:39:34 * haeffb is a {pseudo}coder AND a user. needs both developer.palm.com and precentral
Nov 08 21:39:37 <freakout-work> PuffTheMagic: I know, i know! don't sweat it mate, i'm just being my usual hilarious self
Nov 08 21:39:43 <freakout-work> can't you hear everyone laughing
Nov 08 21:39:43 <freakout-work> ?
Nov 08 21:40:06 <Decimate> *sympathy* HAH
Nov 08 21:40:15 <rwhitby> ni|: there's pre101 and webos-school and other sites too.  Palm doesn't have the staff to spare for documentation I expect and are hoping other sites will take up the slack.
Nov 08 21:40:25 <rwhitby> (but that's just a guess)
Nov 08 21:40:39 <rwhitby> ni|: where's the resistance coming fom?
Nov 08 21:40:40 <ni|> rwhitby: do you realize what you just said
Nov 08 21:40:41 <rwhitby> from
Nov 08 21:40:49 <ni|>  Palm doesn't have the staff to spare for  documentation I expect and are hoping other sites will take up the slack.
Nov 08 21:40:57 <ni|> that statement right there is fail.
Nov 08 21:41:08 <ni|> you mean to tell me palm doesn't have time to make docs for devs
Nov 08 21:41:20 <rwhitby> ni|: yep, I know.  but that's what we're seeing in practice isn't it?
Nov 08 21:41:37 <ni|> rwhitby: idk all i've seen is wirc and its been easy as pie to work on
Nov 08 21:41:52 <ni|> its like working on the computer ... good old fashioned c
Nov 08 21:42:12 <rwhitby> ni|: ok, just wondering where the resistance was ...
Nov 08 21:42:52 <rwhitby> if you're talking about coding resistance - yeah, I'd prefer everything was in C too.
Nov 08 21:42:57 <ni|> you just did it; i said i'm a developer and i don't know where to get information on the latest builds. you replied: read precentral, and if you don't you aren't a serious dev
Nov 08 21:43:18 <ni|> (not wfw)
Nov 08 21:43:20 <bpadalino> rwhitby always tries to keep people down
Nov 08 21:43:35 <rwhitby> ni|: no, I said that the place where the early access program for the beta SDK is most widely publicised on PreCentral.
Nov 08 21:43:45 <rwhitby> The only other place is a single post on the palm developer forums.
Nov 08 21:44:16 <rwhitby> ni|: I fully agree that devs should get all their programming info from developer.palm.com, and palm should keep that complete and up to date.
Nov 08 21:44:48 <rwhitby> and serious devs don't need to read PreCentral, but they will be missing out on some peripheral news which might be important to them if they don't.
Nov 08 21:45:06 <ni|> 16:25 <+rwhitby> ni|: access musn't be that important to you then, or you would make time ;-)
Nov 08 21:45:27 <ni|> (to read precentral)
Nov 08 21:45:35 <ni|> i'm done with this conversation
Nov 08 21:45:35 <rwhitby> ni|: yep, the reality today is that something that a dev needs are only reported on PreCentral.
Nov 08 21:45:42 <dBsooner> rwhitby: how would I get 1.3.1 AND 1.2.1 patches output in the ipkg -o /var
Nov 08 21:45:43 <ni|> that is wrong.
Nov 08 21:45:48 * rwhitby doesn't get where the heat is coming from
Nov 08 21:45:57 <dBsooner> I did: ipkg -o /var | grep patches > patches.txt
Nov 08 21:45:59 <rwhitby> ni|: I agree it's wrong, but it's the status quo today
Nov 08 21:46:03 <ni|> rwhitby: i'm a young firecracker
Nov 08 21:46:05 <dBsooner> but that will just give me 1.2.1, no?
Nov 08 21:46:20 <rwhitby> dBsooner: add another feed for 1.3.1 before doing it
Nov 08 21:46:36 <ni|> if you tell me i can't do something because of some rediculous peripheral website which you said i got false information from originally (re GSM pre) then why the fuck would i go back and read for developer information?
Nov 08 21:46:37 <dBsooner> but then it won't combine them into one line..
Nov 08 21:46:45 <ni|> see what I'm saying?
Nov 08 21:46:45 <dBsooner> so it will take manual intervention, no?
Nov 08 21:46:46 <rwhitby> ni|: unfortunately, there's a gap between reality and what should be.
Nov 08 21:47:12 <ni|> you're gandalf the grey, i wish i could alias your name.
Nov 08 21:47:16 <rwhitby> ni|: huh?  I never said you couldn't do something.
Nov 08 21:48:21 <rwhitby> ni|: it's a resource.  one should read it criticially like any other resource (including the Palm site, which has plenty of errors too)
Nov 08 21:48:36 <ni|> ok, lets not argue
Nov 08 21:48:47 <ni|> i ahve to work on this parser spec
Nov 08 21:49:03 <ni|> i'm sure you have better things to do than argue with some snot nosed kid across the world from you
Nov 08 21:49:36 <rwhitby> ni|: seriously, there is no heat here.  just giving potentially useful info that anyone can take or leave depending on how useful it is to them personally.
Nov 08 21:50:14 <ni|> ok
Nov 08 21:51:31 <lingfish> Hrm.
Nov 08 21:55:25 * rwhitby bbl
Nov 08 21:57:19 <entity-> i got webos 2.0.1 if anyone wants it
Nov 08 22:01:54 <BoBoYsDaDDa> do i lose my contacts if i run webos doctor?
Nov 08 22:03:47 <bpadalino> you lose the linking you did .. but the contacts should stay synchronized with your palm account
Nov 08 22:03:59 <BoBoYsDaDDa> hmm i don't have a palm acct
Nov 08 22:04:05 <BoBoYsDaDDa> do i lose all the apps?
Nov 08 22:04:49 <BoBoYsDaDDa> bathroom break bbiaf
Nov 08 22:12:54 * haeffb is timing bbyddd
Nov 08 22:16:42 <BoBoYsDaDDa> and i'm back
Nov 08 22:16:52 <BoBoYsDaDDa> clocked in at 12 min just so u know haeffb
Nov 08 22:26:40 <atlanta> PuffTheMagic: hey
Nov 08 22:41:52 <PuffTheMagic> atlanta: hi
Nov 08 22:45:57 <AnOutsider-Pre> there we go
Nov 08 22:56:58 <AnOutsider-Pre> hmm
Nov 08 22:57:27 <AnOutsider-Pre> ahh there we go
Nov 08 23:00:22 <dBsooner> rwhitby: ping
Nov 08 23:00:27 <rwhitby> dBsooner: yes
Nov 08 23:00:36 <oil> Templarian: chances of a larger wirc icon?
Nov 08 23:00:48 <oil> for use on the main scene when there is no servers configured
Nov 08 23:00:54 <dBsooner> rwhitby: with just 1.2.1 feed enabled..
Nov 08 23:01:46 <dBsooner> dbeames@castle:~$ ipkg -o /var list | grep "org.webosinternals.patches.universal-search-command-line"
Nov 08 23:01:46 <dBsooner> org.webosinternals.patches.universal-search-command-line - 1.2.1-21 - Command Line
Nov 08 23:01:46 <dBsooner> org.webosinternals.patches.universal-search-command-line - 1.2.1-19 - Command Line
Nov 08 23:02:58 <atlanta> PuffTheMagic: dunno if u knew already but the wirc doesnt show everyone in teh irc
Nov 08 23:03:06 <atlanta> can't see what others are saying
Nov 08 23:03:47 <Puffy_pre> oil watermark would be tight
Nov 08 23:03:58 <Puffy_pre> as a background on that page
Nov 08 23:04:14 <Puffy_pre> even with configured servers
Nov 08 23:04:53 <Puffy_pre> atlanta: you using latest gui?
Nov 08 23:05:11 <atlanta> i install like from the link at like 3pm
Nov 08 23:05:15 <atlanta> new one out since then
Nov 08 23:05:15 <atlanta> ?
Nov 08 23:06:10 <rwhitby> dBsooner: one is the one you have installed, and one is the one in the feed?
Nov 08 23:06:24 <dBsooner> rwhitby: negative
Nov 08 23:06:29 <dBsooner> rwhitby: well let me check
Nov 08 23:06:36 <Puffy_pre> ipk?
Nov 08 23:06:38 <dBsooner> if its the case, then Preware isn't telling me there is an "update"
Nov 08 23:06:46 <rwhitby> dBsooner: ipkg -o /var list_installed ?
Nov 08 23:07:07 <rwhitby> dBsooner: if you manually install stuff, it sometimes does that - dunno why.
Nov 08 23:07:07 <dBsooner> yep, I got 19 installed
Nov 08 23:07:11 <atlanta_wirc> weird it works in this channel not in #webos
Nov 08 23:07:15 <dBsooner> and I instlled it through preware
Nov 08 23:07:21 <dBsooner> I only install through preware
Nov 08 23:07:26 <atlanta> Puffy_pre: when i log into #webos its only shows 1 person in the room me
Nov 08 23:07:43 <rwhitby> atlanta: try #wirc ... ;-)
Nov 08 23:09:21 <rwhitby> dBsooner: grep for the package in /var/usr/lib/ipkg/status and /var/usr/lib/ipkg/lists/*
Nov 08 23:09:47 <Puffy_pre> atlanta: you using the ipks
Nov 08 23:13:36 <kesne> atlanta: #webos doesnt work on wirc, that is know
Nov 08 23:13:52 <atlanta> yea just found out
Nov 08 23:15:40 <Puffy_pre> new to me
Nov 08 23:16:04 <fearphage> just looking over some of the code. are you guys js devs or do you have other backgrounds?
Nov 08 23:16:07 <Puffy_pre> what is the mode of webos?
Nov 08 23:16:20 <fearphage> http://www.slideshare.net/madrobby/extreme-javascript-performance might be useful
Nov 08 23:16:58 <Puffy_pre> fearphage: I can't speak for others but I'm a C&java person
Nov 08 23:17:10 <fearphage> is there a repository for wirc?
Nov 08 23:17:14 <Puffy_pre> my js/css is piss poor
Nov 08 23:17:30 <fearphage> i'm just looking over it and i see a lot of room for micro optimizations and things of the sort
Nov 08 23:17:38 <Puffy_pre> fearphage: yeah on git.webosinternals.org
Nov 08 23:18:10 <Puffy_pre> fearphage: patches welcome
Nov 08 23:19:29 <fearphage> thanks
Nov 08 23:19:53 <Puffy_pre> fearphage: might want to join #wirc
Nov 08 23:22:55 <dBsooner> rwhitby: 19 is installed
Nov 08 23:23:29 <dBsooner> well i am going to commit this xls to the modifications repo
Nov 08 23:23:47 <dBsooner> we have 111 1.2.1 patches, and 85 1.3.1
Nov 08 23:23:50 <rwhitby> dBsooner: won't that file quickly get out of date?
Nov 08 23:23:57 <dBsooner> rwhitby: yes.
Nov 08 23:24:01 <rwhitby> i.e. is it updated automatically or manually
Nov 08 23:24:06 <dBsooner> rwhitby: i just want to be able to track when 1.3.1 gets updated
Nov 08 23:24:24 <dBsooner> Actually. Instead..
Nov 08 23:24:34 <dBsooner> I am just going to create a "NEEDS-131"
Nov 08 23:24:45 <dBsooner> and have the pathces that needs a 1.3.1 update
Nov 08 23:25:01 <rwhitby> Puffy_pre: do you have any idea why people are having problems accessing preyourmind.org from evdo, or is the problem upstream from your site?
Nov 08 23:25:46 <Puffy_pre> rwhitby: I'm gonna just turn the site off... remove the feed from the service
Nov 08 23:26:02 <dBsooner> ?
Nov 08 23:26:11 <dBsooner> ohh.. pym is going to be shutdown.
Nov 08 23:26:50 <rwhitby> Puffy_pre: ok, you want a repo for ledservice?
Nov 08 23:27:15 <dBsooner> rwhitby: I'll jsut create that 131-Update-Needed file
Nov 08 23:27:17 <rwhitby> Puffy_pre: anything else on there that needs to be moved somewhere?
Nov 08 23:27:18 <Puffy_pre> nooo... I only made it for led notifications
Nov 08 23:27:33 <Puffy_pre> and if I were to need it I would redo it in C
Nov 08 23:28:21 <rwhitby> Puffy_pre: ok. I'll be pushing a new ipkgservice later today, so will remove it in that.
Nov 08 23:28:32 <Puffy_pre> k
Nov 08 23:28:42 <rwhitby> Puffy_pre: thx
Nov 08 23:29:14 <Puffy_pre> np
Nov 09 00:03:20 <fearphage> what's defining the additional protypes on the objects?
Nov 09 00:04:07 <fearphage> from code: servers.servers.each ; what defines each? it's not in JS1.6
Nov 09 00:08:47 <oil> checking out the wirc code, eh?
Nov 09 00:09:14 <fearphage> yes i am
Nov 09 00:09:42 <fearphage> is there a library being loaded that is extending the protype?
Nov 09 00:09:52 <oil> yes, "prototype"
Nov 09 00:10:03 <fearphage> don't see it
Nov 09 00:10:04 <oil> but thats done by mojo, we don't specifically do it
Nov 09 00:10:19 <oil> http://api.prototypejs.org/
Nov 09 00:10:25 <oil> is built into the mojo framework
Nov 09 00:10:31 <fearphage> interesting
Nov 09 00:10:52 <fearphage> i felt like i should have read that somewhere
Nov 09 00:17:30 <oil> idk what to tell ya :/
Nov 09 00:45:38 <fearphage> where can i get this file /usr/palm/frameworks/mojo/mojo.js?
Nov 09 00:45:55 <fearphage> and associated files
Nov 09 00:46:07 <oil> you could extract it from the doctor
Nov 09 01:33:13 <fearphage> the only way to test wIRC is on the device really, right?
Nov 09 01:33:32 <rwhitby> fearphage: it should work on the emulator - just need the service compiled for i686
Nov 09 01:33:44 <rwhitby> when it gets in the feeds that will be done automatically
Nov 09 01:33:56 <fearphage> last time i ran the emu it wouldn't make network connections. i'll try agin
Nov 09 01:34:08 <rwhitby> fearphage: network works fine on emu
Nov 09 01:34:19 <fearphage> it normally does but not last time
Nov 09 01:51:40 <rwhitby> oil: should we have show all package types on by default in Preware now?
Nov 09 01:56:21 <oil> what do you mean?
Nov 09 02:07:11 <zsoc|away> did i miss all the arguing?
Nov 09 02:08:12 <AnOutsider-Pre> I guess I did too
Nov 09 02:08:38 <AnOutsider-Pre> *clicks logs*
Nov 09 02:12:59 * rwhitby chuckles if people think that was an argument ... ;-)
Nov 09 02:13:31 <AnOutsider-Pre> I didn't see anything. so rod, there's problems with the feed on evdo?
Nov 09 02:13:56 <rwhitby> AnOutsider-Pre: apparently some people are experiencing such
Nov 09 02:13:56 <AnOutsider-Pre> I only use evdo (no wifi to save batter) and no issue except sometimes having to restart
Nov 09 02:15:57 <AnOutsider-Pre> I wonder if its the size of the feed. thought it was in the 550 range
Nov 09 02:15:58 <fearphage> wircd is required for the client?
Nov 09 02:16:24 <oil> yes, wirc talks to the server
Nov 09 02:16:36 <oil> i mean, the wircd service
Nov 09 02:16:59 <rwhitby> AnOutsider-Pre: dunno.
Nov 09 02:17:08 <fearphage> interesting
Nov 09 02:17:22 * rwhitby bbl
Nov 09 02:17:45 <zsoc> oil, wircd stands for wirc daemon?
Nov 09 02:17:48 <fearphage> that's not the same meaning of ircd is it?
Nov 09 02:17:54 <oil> yeah
Nov 09 02:18:06 <oil> (to zsoc)
Nov 09 02:18:11 <fearphage> ok
Nov 09 02:18:12 <zsoc> oil, so it's a daemon service? i don't think that's quite right..
Nov 09 02:18:27 <oil> fearphage: i don't know much about the service, PuffTheMagic and egaudet worked on it
Nov 09 02:18:59 <zsoc> Although technically i suppose all services are daemons :P
Nov 09 02:19:03 <zsoc> just seems redundant.
Nov 09 02:20:55 <fearphage> hmmm
Nov 09 02:21:19 <fearphage> should i install services in a different manner than apps?
Nov 09 02:21:32 <oil> the service needs postinst
Nov 09 02:21:49 <oil> quickinstall can install the service ipk
Nov 09 02:22:57 <zsoc> or you could just install the service and run the postinst :P
Nov 09 02:23:15 <oil> right
Nov 09 02:24:26 <trim> are you guys talkijg about wirc?
Nov 09 02:24:42 <trim> I'm typing on wirc rigt now...sweett app
Nov 09 02:25:13 <ni|> trim: :)
Nov 09 02:26:10 <ni|> oil: you are on wave soon
Nov 09 02:26:53 <zsoc> ni|, wave?
Nov 09 02:27:01 <ni|> google wave
Nov 09 02:27:17 <zsoc> sounds... like a privacy issue :P
Nov 09 02:27:22 <ni|> ?
Nov 09 02:27:26 <ni|> ok
Nov 09 02:27:33 <ni|> you don't have to have one
Nov 09 02:27:41 <zsoc> all i know about wave is there's an hour and 20 long minute video about it. that's just silly
Nov 09 02:27:54 * zsoc pouts
Nov 09 02:29:07 <ni|> zsoc: so?
Nov 09 02:29:16 <ni|> why are you pouting lol
Nov 09 02:29:45 <zsoc> well i can't have one
Nov 09 02:29:50 <zsoc> everyone else has it so now i want it
Nov 09 02:29:58 * zsoc is clearly 12
Nov 09 02:30:22 <zsoc> Ok, I'm over it.
Nov 09 02:30:46 <zsoc> Looks like an interesting collaborative idea.
Nov 09 02:34:23 <trim> hey I need a googlwwave invite, anyone can spare?
Nov 09 02:34:51 <oil> you need it?
Nov 09 02:35:20 <bpadalino> it's a complete necessity
Nov 09 02:36:00 <oil> lol
Nov 09 02:38:07 <AMRCC> just wondering if anyone submitted the "Bypassing Lock Screen" patch to autopatch yet?  http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_WebOS_Bypassing_Lock_Screen
Nov 09 02:39:17 <fearphage> should postinst happen magically with this?
Nov 09 02:40:29 <oil> quick install runs it
Nov 09 02:41:05 <fearphage> iss there any visual notification of success?
Nov 09 02:41:55 <oil> fro quick install?
Nov 09 02:46:10 <fearphage> ok
Nov 09 02:46:13 <fearphage> it works
Nov 09 02:46:15 <trim> oil: got an extra wave invite?
Nov 09 02:46:28 <oil> i dont have it
Nov 09 02:46:31 <fearphage> i have a dumb question. how do i close apps/windows
Nov 09 02:46:39 <oil> in emulator?
Nov 09 02:46:45 <fearphage> yes
Nov 09 02:46:48 <oil> home button, toss the card up
Nov 09 02:46:50 <fearphage> without the comand line
Nov 09 02:47:32 <oil> eh?
Nov 09 02:47:37 <oil> in the emulator window
Nov 09 02:47:38 <oil> hit hte home button
Nov 09 02:47:42 <oil> it will send it to card view
Nov 09 02:47:47 <oil> then toss the card up with your mouse
Nov 09 02:48:05 <fearphage> nice
Nov 09 02:49:13 <AMRCC> @oil can you run me thru the process to request getting a patch into autopatch?  who says yea or nea?
Nov 09 02:49:26 <zsoc> My phone doesn't sleep when it's plugged in, is this normal?
Nov 09 02:49:42 <oil> AMRCC: there is a submission website
Nov 09 02:49:54 <AMRCC> is it git?
Nov 09 02:49:58 <oil> and egaudet, dBsooner, and rwhitby do the stuff
Nov 09 02:50:03 <fearphage> the most confusing multi-server aspect is know which context you're in
Nov 09 02:50:09 <fearphage> knowing*
Nov 09 02:50:20 <oil> there is git, there is also a website where you just upload it and they do all the owrk
Nov 09 02:51:14 <AMRCC> i finally got the dorks in our net dept to enable EAS and I now know what everyone was complaining about with the lock screen.
Nov 09 02:52:27 <AMRCC> From the research it looks as if people have been requesting to get the Bypass patch in autopatch...but not having luck...I'm thinking they are iffy publishin that one
Nov 09 02:54:26 <AMRCC> ill check with rwhitby and see what he says.  Thanks.
Nov 09 02:54:56 <geist> zsoc: it goes into the dim screen mode? yes
Nov 09 02:56:49 <bpadalino> sometimes on the touchstone my pre doesn't dim as much as others .. kind of weird
Nov 09 02:56:59 <geist> it's looking at the light sensor
Nov 09 02:57:08 <geist> maybe it's reading differently
Nov 09 02:57:32 <geist> it doesn't support too many notches, so your room is probably right on the boundary
Nov 09 02:57:34 <bpadalino> possibly - i've stopped charging it during sleep though since the ambient backlight is still too illuminating
Nov 09 02:57:53 <geist> can't you hit the power button? i think it goes dark then
Nov 09 02:58:10 <bpadalino> i try, but it still never gets as dark as it should
Nov 09 02:58:24 <geist> oh you're right. it does
Nov 09 02:58:26 <bpadalino> also of note - i have a passcode due to an exchange account
Nov 09 02:58:35 <bpadalino> if i pick up off the touchstone, cancel the passcode ..
Nov 09 02:58:51 <bpadalino> the next time i wake up, it's black screen - not background
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Nov 09 02:59:56 2009