**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 18 02:59:57 2009 Dec 18 03:11:06 update all on a patch? Dec 18 03:11:22 patches yea Dec 18 03:11:40 thats all handled by the service Dec 18 03:11:43 prerm exit 1, but yet preware stillr emoved it and then went on to install which failed and then popped up error Dec 18 03:12:20 preware says "service: replace this package" Dec 18 03:12:32 service says "ok, ill remove then install the new version" Dec 18 03:13:09 got it, service gotta catch that error Dec 18 03:16:52 love transaction pkg managers Dec 18 03:17:09 but uses apt-get/dpkg, ha Dec 18 03:53:01 this update all is weird, it keeps running even after giving me an error. The errors seem to stack up sometimes, etc... Dec 18 03:54:09 well atleast someone is testing it before release :) Dec 18 03:54:30 * oil_ would seriously have no problem just removing it Dec 18 03:56:32 no no, it will work awesome with aupt once the kinks worked out :p Dec 18 03:57:06 ok I'm going to bed Dec 18 04:04:15 1 more day of school :( Dec 18 04:15:15 lol @ "mirror" apps in teh catalog Dec 18 04:15:24 as if the back of the phone didn't have, you know, a real mirror Dec 18 04:18:08 pixi doesnt Dec 18 04:18:57 so? Dec 18 04:19:16 let me show you the effect of the app on your pixi Dec 18 04:19:19 turn off the screen Dec 18 04:19:33 which, is actually better, because then there is no backlight Dec 18 04:19:45 I wonder why the uptime on my phone keeps resetting Dec 18 04:21:36 jacques -- if I send you the presentation I did at sprint, you could cut it down and stick in some Linux stuff.... and we could submit that Dec 18 04:21:49 or you could give me some linux stuff and I could munge them together. Dec 18 04:22:02 OR we could do to seperate half-presentations. Dec 18 04:22:15 which is entirely up to you since I've never even BEEN to scale Dec 18 04:23:14 rick_home, rod sent me a copy of the presentation a couple of hours ago, and the first option sounds good to me Dec 18 04:24:08 I'm open. tho logistically probably one of us should talk and then the other, and questions for both at the end if there's time Dec 18 04:24:38 rick_home, how long (time-wise) is your current presentation? Dec 18 04:24:59 rick_home, SCALE is really casual. tho it's been getting bigger every year Dec 18 04:25:55 it's a true hobbyist conference Dec 18 04:27:39 kk Dec 18 04:28:31 there are a lot of really technical people there, along with lots of ppl new to linux / open source Dec 18 04:28:52 well, tell you what, I'm going to send you the sprint presentation. Dec 18 04:29:15 assume that I'll cut it down to 20 or 25 minutes, and that you'll take 20 or 25 minutes front or back, I don't care. Dec 18 04:29:46 but I'll send you that as a starting place. Dec 18 04:31:54 how can i list the contents of an .ipkg? Dec 18 04:32:03 ipk Dec 18 04:32:16 ipkg files pkg Dec 18 04:32:19 if installed Dec 18 04:32:30 you can also extract the data.tar.gz Dec 18 04:32:36 ar x pkg.ipk Dec 18 04:32:48 tmzt: cheers, thanks a lot Dec 18 04:43:59 tmzt: i've installed the icq & co messaging plugins by gregroll. ipkg seems to list this package without a proper name. so i've trouble accessing it... do you know how to work around that? Dec 18 04:46:41 what is you guys comments on Ares? Dec 18 04:48:53 same as it was in beta Dec 18 04:48:54 "meh" Dec 18 04:49:01 didn't realize Ares is the God of Bloodlust Dec 18 04:49:08 or slaughter personified Dec 18 04:49:21 that could take on a few different meanings i suppose Dec 18 04:49:32 * jacques is meta-doctoring. Dec 18 04:51:44 mus: no Dec 18 04:56:19 hmm, my doctoring aborted at about 52% Dec 18 04:56:26 try again I guess... Dec 18 05:08:42 when I run webosdoctor again it keeps saying "unable to reset your phone" Dec 18 05:08:49 and the power button isn't working Dec 18 05:09:54 reset it Dec 18 05:10:08 bootie might have crashed Dec 18 05:10:12 or something Dec 18 05:10:55 tmzt, how do I reset it? the power button isn't working Dec 18 05:11:14 I just did a telbootie reboot but that didn't help Dec 18 05:11:35 it restarted to the palm logo but now webosdoctor cannot find the device Dec 18 05:12:39 time to remove battery? Dec 18 05:12:45 yeah Dec 18 05:12:51 or maybe hold power Dec 18 05:13:11 I've been holding power down. no effect Dec 18 05:13:17 for 10 seconds Dec 18 05:13:18 ok Dec 18 05:13:20 pull Dec 18 05:13:23 does it need to be longer? Dec 18 05:15:28 just pulled battery Dec 18 05:22:52 phone won't get past the palm logo now Dec 18 05:24:03 and holding down the power button has no effect Dec 18 05:28:02 phone powers on to palm logo as soon as I plug it into USB Dec 18 05:30:44 this is going ot be the third time I'm removing the battery Dec 18 05:37:25 holding the up rocker while plugging the phone into USB at least got me the USB logo and now webosdoctor can find the phone again and has started the restore process Dec 18 05:44:13 now it's been on 66% "reconnecting to modem" for a long time Dec 18 05:45:18 ok it's printing more stuff about flashing the modem now, now at 74% Dec 18 05:45:19 * oil_ has a feeling patches are the cause of jacques' problems Dec 18 05:45:28 xD Dec 18 05:46:32 oil_, well I could have done something when I was logged into the phone I suppose, but I hadn't installed any patches. this is the first time I have tried to do anything other than log in over novacomd. Dec 18 05:47:21 webosdoctor ended successfully and phone is now rebooting Dec 18 05:48:56 lol Dec 18 05:49:02 i just like to make fun of patches Dec 18 05:53:26 oil, aha. :-) Dec 18 06:13:19 cool, I have devel mode and a 2GiB /var now Dec 18 06:14:04 is there a way to check the WEP key when logged in as root ? iwconfig is showing Encryption key:****-****-****-****-****-****-** Dec 18 06:14:23 lol Dec 18 06:14:40 you made your var 2gb right before 135 which installs to media partition Dec 18 06:18:51 optware will still be in /var Dec 18 06:20:26 well, gotta go. later. Dec 18 06:57:51 hello Dec 18 07:12:30 egaudet: did you update to very latest 0.9.26 alpha? I fixed the prerm error not stopping things bugs yesterday and updated the feed. Dec 18 07:15:10 oil: email and optware is good for 2GB /var :-) and jacques will use the optware stuff Dec 18 10:07:19 * rwhitby adds the ability to preload your authorized_keys file in the meta-doctor Dec 18 10:31:39 autoscatto? Dec 18 10:32:42 que? Dec 18 14:18:48 Is there a way to temporarily lock the view (portrait or landscape). for example hand the Pre to a TSA person to scan the boarding pass info don't want it flipping around Dec 18 18:24:35 * linuxjacques makes cricket sounds. Dec 18 18:28:43 damn cricket, find it and kill it! Dec 18 18:31:48 I'm all pre-wared now. Dec 18 18:32:34 it's very impressive. Dec 18 18:35:22 innittho? Dec 18 18:36:57 once I got past the newbie mistakes like getting webosdoctor to complete and realizing that luna had to be restarted for patches to take effect, it was really cool. Dec 18 18:39:27 ha ha, n00b Dec 18 18:41:11 :-P Dec 18 18:41:12 ^_^ Dec 18 18:41:15 * Mousey goes back to ingesting LDAP documentation Dec 18 18:41:16 <-- ldap n00b Dec 18 18:54:32 Morning Dec 18 18:55:52 morning chrisa Dec 18 18:59:33 ldap is a bitch Dec 18 19:14:28 hey Dec 18 19:14:41 so am i right that there is already a syncml library or some functionality in webOS already? Dec 18 19:58:08 Hmm, it seems that Nautilus's "Safely Remove Drive" didn't do what it needed to, and I lost of bunch of files from the USB move of my Pre. Dec 18 19:58:38 s!move!/media/internal partition! Dec 18 19:59:33 Is there a good way I can get back the ringtones and wallpapers that shipped with it? Dec 18 20:08:30 * Mousey writes a big ol' post on funambol about syncml and palm pre Dec 18 20:08:46 * Mousey links liberally to webos-internals Dec 18 20:23:57 what resets the uptime on the pre? for example right now it's showing "up 3:34" but I haven't rebooted in > 12 hours. Dec 18 20:24:24 I've noticed this short uptime several times now Dec 18 20:34:46 what happened to fair dinkum? Dec 18 20:39:52 the functionality is part of package manager service Dec 18 20:41:20 well then why is it not working? Dec 18 20:41:26 i can no longer install any apps Dec 18 20:41:36 i am searching for it in preware but cant find it Dec 18 20:42:46 mvapp ftw Dec 18 20:42:57 1.3.5 ftw Dec 18 20:43:03 fu Dec 18 20:43:13 i'm not gonna doctor my phone to 1.3.5 Dec 18 20:43:16 has anyone using 1.3.5 notices how shitty google maps works Dec 18 20:43:16 palm can suck it Dec 18 20:43:19 PreGame: are you sure it's "not working"? Dec 18 20:43:27 what is your available space on /var Dec 18 20:43:30 i'm 500% positive Dec 18 20:43:36 hi all Dec 18 20:43:40 i cannot install anything, says i need more space Dec 18 20:43:47 hi JayCanuck Dec 18 20:43:51 PreGame: that does not mean it is not working Dec 18 20:43:56 there are 2 space issues Dec 18 20:44:08 Puff, what is the issue you're having with Google Maps Dec 18 20:44:11 fair dinkum solves one Dec 18 20:44:20 me, I can't get the damn thing to load Dec 18 20:44:37 JayCanuck: same with me Dec 18 20:44:44 i have to open it like 20 times Dec 18 20:44:47 thedn it will work Dec 18 20:44:48 white card syndrome, lol Dec 18 20:44:51 yeah Dec 18 20:45:01 PreGame: how much space is available on /var. you need 100MB+ free space in /var to install apps from cat Dec 18 20:45:03 I've see a strange behaviour Dec 18 20:45:31 I have the iphone user agent spoof Dec 18 20:45:45 where is fair dinkum located in preware? Dec 18 20:45:50 when I go to the latitude webpage and google maps app pops up, I get white card Dec 18 20:46:07 the functionality is in the preferences menu Dec 18 20:46:10 PreGame, fair dinkum is build into packagwe manager currently I believe Dec 18 20:46:47 PreGame: preware->preferences "Partial app limit fix" Dec 18 20:46:52 k, thats enabled Dec 18 20:46:54 it only fixes the 64MB restriction Dec 18 20:46:57 so i guess i need mvapp now Dec 18 20:47:03 it never fixed the <100MB restriction Dec 18 20:47:07 yea Dec 18 20:47:11 PreGame: or resize /var Dec 18 20:47:18 i uninstalled like 5 apps and still no luck Dec 18 20:47:33 PreGame: what does df -h show available for /var Dec 18 20:48:39 but yea, upon latitide website opening google maps app, I get white card, then when I switch to card view I see the loaded card for a sec then it flashes back white Dec 18 20:49:09 248.0M 155.9M 92.0M 63% /var Dec 18 20:49:36 92M avail Dec 18 20:50:27 hi, i can't get terminal to run Error:Termplugin is not installed. Reinstalled it and restarted with Luna Manager "Restart Luna" what am i doing wrong? Dec 18 20:50:55 hawiwo, did you install the Terminal Plugin? Dec 18 20:51:06 PuffTheMagic, have you done the GPS hack? Dec 18 20:51:23 JayCanuck: i dont know what that is.... so I am going to assume no Dec 18 20:51:27 yes with preware installer Dec 18 20:52:03 lol, Puff, it's the hack that enables full GPs via changes with QPST Dec 18 20:54:05 i installed "Terminal" do you mean it with "terminal plugin"? Dec 18 20:54:53 yea, both Terminal and Terminal Plugin need to be installed for it to work Dec 18 20:55:23 where do i find the terminal plugin? Dec 18 20:55:49 it should have been installed with Terminal as a dependancy, if you used Preware Dec 18 20:56:18 thanks egaudet_work and ird :) mvapp did the trick Dec 18 20:56:33 hey, anyone know who manages the PreCentral to Preware feed converter? Dec 18 20:56:44 rod? Dec 18 20:57:00 seems that this does not work for me. Dec 18 20:57:10 dieter outputs the feed Dec 18 20:57:28 dieter outputs to IPKG format Dec 18 20:57:49 hawiwo: do you have preware? Dec 18 20:58:08 yea, then there's a converter that mirrors the files to preware.org and builds a new Packages file Dec 18 20:58:17 ahh, i think rod Dec 18 20:58:20 yes i use preware v0.9.12 Dec 18 20:58:26 k Dec 18 20:59:04 it should have installed the plugin on its own Dec 18 20:59:53 have you rebooted since the install? I've noticed that's what it takes for some people to get a service/plugin to work.. Dec 18 21:00:03 why is the keyboard obsolete? Dec 18 21:00:08 virtual Dec 18 21:01:07 yes i have tried it at least 5 times remove, install and than restart with luna manager or with devicemanager Dec 18 21:02:20 go to the list of everything and type "terminal" Dec 18 21:02:24 install the plugin Dec 18 21:03:03 i did it this way! Dec 18 21:03:14 so you have the plugin installed? Dec 18 21:04:16 This may be the last pre issue i ever have... Dec 18 21:04:47 i don't know if both are installed. After installation i have a Terminal icon and when i start it i get the Termplugin is not installed - error Dec 18 21:04:50 I need to sync my contacts one way from Pre to PC one time, I can no longer use the official palm app store, i can use preware, is there anything out there to help me? Dec 18 21:06:05 anyone have any comments on the issue? Dec 18 21:06:31 simple explanation: terminal = xbox controller, terminal service = xbox Dec 18 21:06:31 ok i think i login with ssh and tail -f /var/log/messages while i remove and install the terminal again Dec 18 21:07:01 and belive it or not you wont be able to play your game with just the controller ;) Dec 18 21:07:46 anyone know how to sync contacts to PC without an app from the store Dec 18 21:09:21 PreGame: read the description for the obsolete vkb Dec 18 21:10:00 JayCanuck: Rod does most of the work with the autobuilder makefiles, I know my way around them Dec 18 21:10:31 seems as though the Packages file completely ignores the existing info in the app controls Dec 18 21:10:40 *control file Dec 18 21:10:54 noone has an idea on the contacts sync? Dec 18 21:11:25 and since Preware is centered around the feed, that can cause inconsistancies Dec 18 21:11:59 for example, FileMgr Service is labelled as an Application, with no java reboot flags Dec 18 21:12:03 how about this, can i download a free app from the app store to my PC somehow and push it to my phone manually from PC? Dec 18 21:13:16 App Catalog doesn't support non-OTA downloads Dec 18 21:13:36 okay so is there any hope for my syncing question? Dec 18 21:13:54 well there is WebOS Quick Install, but that not a sync really Dec 18 21:13:56 PreMan: use google contacts and export them as csv ? Dec 18 21:14:22 but even if i use a google contacts account i can't get it to send google the ones i already had in there (majority fo them) before i made google default? Dec 18 21:14:32 it only seems to send newly created ones Dec 18 21:15:03 DarkSpecter: that is using the "preferences & accounts" method in the contacts app Dec 18 21:16:06 hello! I've just buyed a palm pre, any council? Dec 18 21:17:27 PreMan: never had that problem, i have google set as primary account and all my contacts are available Dec 18 21:17:48 DarkSpecter: did you always have it that way, or did you change it after you had some contacts already there? Dec 18 21:19:01 PreMan: always, the only contact i have in my palm account is the one from palm support, and then there are my most important ones which i carry around with me on the sim itself Dec 18 21:19:21 we'll have to ask Rod about that Jay Dec 18 21:19:30 yeah, i think it just syncs the ones you create after it's made the primary Dec 18 21:19:56 tried seting it primary and then forcing a sync ? Dec 18 21:20:11 is there any other way to push my contacts to the pc without an app from appstore? Dec 18 21:21:41 or is there a way to access the appstore without sprint? Dec 18 21:21:49 and download an app? Dec 18 21:24:13 when you know how to code and dont mind messing around with a db you could try to extract your contacty manualy, should be safe as long as you dont try to alter the db Dec 18 21:25:26 iirc wosqi can make a backup copy of it, but i guess JayCanuck knows better than me ;) Dec 18 21:25:26 i'll just send myself 100 or so e-mails with the vcfs Dec 18 21:27:21 heh, i'd rather write a script that walks the db than do that, but thats just me, i hate boring repetitive tasks (i.e. sending 100 emails= ;) Dec 18 21:34:17 wewt Dec 18 21:54:12 egaudet: ping Dec 18 22:01:09 rwhitby: thoughts on EPR saving a local profile list of patches before OS upgrade to reapply after if compatible? Dec 18 22:01:16 howdy rwhitby Dec 18 22:02:18 hi linuxjacques Dec 18 22:02:50 Robi_: I'd rather complete the aupt and signing, which will obviate the need to remove patches. Dec 18 22:03:40 rwhitby: I am up to step 3 in the list you gave me: Install OpenSSH SFTP Service (which I will do in a few hours) Dec 18 22:04:08 I'm assuming that pulls in the openssh clients and server Dec 18 22:04:13 aupt ? auto-update ? Dec 18 22:04:38 linuxjacques: why not use dropbear? Dec 18 22:04:43 linuxjacques: yep Dec 18 22:05:18 Robi_: I actually recommend openssh now, cause then you don't have to set a root password that is never going to be used by anything. Dec 18 22:05:38 Robi_: have you read the Preware Feature Roadmap? Dec 18 22:05:50 apparently not Dec 18 22:05:56 IME dropbear is smaller, but openssh is faster Dec 18 22:06:13 and more featureful Dec 18 22:07:47 rwhitby: why does dropbear req it? vs oSSH doesn't Dec 18 22:08:14 considering sudo should handle the rest Dec 18 22:08:56 Robi_: We're talking about the packages from Preware now, not the ipkg-opt manual bootstrap procedure Dec 18 22:09:44 Robi_: you set both to no password logins, and ssh keys only. dropbear still requires root to have a password, even though it is never used. openssh doesn't. Dec 18 22:10:00 preware.org loog excellent btw Dec 18 22:10:13 rwhitby: causes logon failures? Dec 18 22:11:14 Robi_: yep Dec 18 22:11:53 is this because of dropbears self invocation requires setuid ? Dec 18 22:12:12 Robi_: haven't tracked down why it needs a root password when set for ssh keys only Dec 18 22:12:14 or choice of port range Dec 18 22:12:37 ah mystery remains ;-/ Dec 18 22:13:24 i dont see the roadmap on preware.org , wiki instead? Dec 18 22:14:38 http://bit.ly/preware-feature-roadmap Dec 18 22:14:48 you're not following @webosinternals? Dec 18 22:15:16 i am, just not 24x7 Dec 18 22:15:28 my timeline is more than just you :P Dec 18 22:15:37 well, there's your problem ;-) Dec 18 22:17:24 hahaah lovely post on pre central Dec 18 22:17:36 all the bitching and moaning we did here is addressed Dec 18 22:17:41 * Robi_ pets rwhitby Dec 18 22:18:30 heh, it was just documenting what was pretty much always the goal, but we only just worked out all the pieces to reach the goal ... Dec 18 22:19:20 * rwhitby tests a meta-doctor that puts authorized_keys in place automatically. Dec 18 22:19:29 most excellent, hopefully before 1.3.5 comes out Dec 18 22:20:17 Robi_: I'm not confident of us beating 1.3.5 Dec 18 22:20:42 but we will put everything in place so that 1.3.5 is the last time you have to remove patches Dec 18 22:20:57 valiant effort Dec 18 22:22:39 all this tinkering with the pre reminds me of old ipaq days Dec 18 22:24:21 still have my 1st gen ipaq, but it's a glorified alarm clock now ;) Dec 18 22:24:50 DarkSpecter: me too! Dec 18 22:25:20 * linuxjacques got a 3650 in 1999 and immediately started running linux on it. Dec 18 22:25:31 same here :) Dec 18 22:27:01 and now ten years later, linux on handhelds looks and works better than wince/windows mobile/whatever they are calling it this week Dec 18 22:29:21 linux on handhelds is just another aplication of embeded linus which has been strong for quite a while now Dec 18 22:29:44 linuxjacques: so what feedback do you have on Preware as a new user? Dec 18 22:30:08 its just that those serving the mainstream markets only startet noticing/using it recently Dec 18 22:30:24 rwhitby: preware itself is awesome Dec 18 22:30:46 linuxjacques: you know ipkg and stuff well - what have we done wrong? Dec 18 22:31:40 doctoring my pre and using webosquickinstall were the parts where I had trouble, I had to pull the battery 3-4 times on my pre before I got webosdoctor to complete Dec 18 22:32:20 rwhitby: I would have to get deeped into the implementation of preware before I could begin to answer that question (and I intend to) Dec 18 22:32:50 linuxjacques: I have a plan to make the installation of preware part of the meta-doctor, for my own convenience with my dev device. Dec 18 22:33:08 meta-doctor, and then unplug the pre and do everything else wireless Dec 18 22:33:29 meta-doctor has excellent potential Dec 18 22:33:31 (install openssh through preware, authorized_keys is already there, ssh in) Dec 18 22:33:44 reminds me a tiny bit of slugimage Dec 18 22:34:05 linuxjacques: the concept is much the same as the 1.0 unslung makeifle Dec 18 22:35:01 it always nags me a bit to use apps with no source for these sorts of things, but I am ignoring that for now :-) Dec 18 22:35:16 assuming webosdoctor source is not available Dec 18 22:35:55 linuxjacques: check out the ipkg installer tool in git Dec 18 22:36:10 it still uses the palm novacomd drivers, but the rest is open source Dec 18 22:36:21 nice! Dec 18 22:36:35 the preware stand-alone installer is built using it Dec 18 22:37:06 is the stand-alone installer available for linux? I thought it was windows-only Dec 18 22:37:54 the novacomd stuff seems pretty stable to me, no complaints there (other than the closed source aspect) Dec 18 22:39:06 I'm actively working the toolchain autobuild angle now Dec 18 22:39:37 the installer works on windows too. Dec 18 22:39:38 er Dec 18 22:39:39 linux Dec 18 22:39:44 I would be much happier if we had the source for goodfork Dec 18 22:40:03 ird: I'll have to check that out then Dec 18 22:40:38 linuxjacques: http://get.preware.org/PrewareInstaller-0.9.5.jar Dec 18 22:42:34 ird: why does it need the webosdoctor.jar ? Dec 18 22:42:44 to me that's not "stand-alone" :-) Dec 18 22:43:31 I'm guessing there is some proprietary stuff needed to communicate with the device. Dec 18 22:43:40 WebOS Quick Install also uses it. Dec 18 22:44:10 i guess it pulls novacom stuff out of it Dec 18 22:44:33 I should have just said that like I was going to :p Dec 18 22:45:24 well afaik thats what wosqi does ;) Dec 18 22:47:05 so, the binary novacomd stuff is in the webosdoctor.jar too? I have been downloading palm-novacom_1.0.46_i386.deb and extracting the binaries Dec 18 22:48:34 yup it is Dec 18 22:48:48 yep, it's just a daemon that talks to the device over usb Dec 18 22:49:27 so in theory, the prewareinstaller could check if novacomd is already installed / running and then skip downloading webosdoctor.jar ? Dec 18 22:50:59 (or does it already do that?) Dec 18 22:51:19 try it ;) Dec 18 22:51:25 I realized I just tried running it on a machine which does not currently have novacomd running Dec 18 22:51:57 I'm currently accessing my pre from a different machine over novacomd :-) Dec 18 22:52:56 * DarkSpecter is lazy and mostly uses wlan+nodoze Dec 18 22:53:30 * linuxjacques is at work with no wifi nor data service. Dec 18 22:53:46 but the roam only patch rocks! :-) Dec 18 22:55:29 i have wlan @home and @work so i'm quite happy, and inbetween them is perfect umts coverage :P Dec 18 22:56:18 at least I have full EVDO bars at home. Dec 18 22:57:29 though i have my pre mostly set to gsm only, as it doubles battery life Dec 18 23:00:02 I need my pre to use my location to set roam-only. so it can automatically turn it on when I am at work, and turn it off when I leave. Dec 18 23:04:31 just like i need my 2G/3G patch ;) Dec 18 23:04:49 linuxjacques: yeah, we need to work on location based triggers Dec 18 23:04:56 rwhitby, pong Dec 18 23:05:25 egaudet: we have an issue with future webOS updates that do not reformat /media/internal when you doctor Dec 18 23:05:31 I figure that's more realistic than the ideal, which would allow me to see the signal strength of Sprint vs. available roaming carriers (Verizon) and set thresholds for where the phone switches over each way Dec 18 23:06:20 linuxjacques: I want to do stuff like only sync email automatically when connected to wifi, and only turn on GPS when I'm not connected to wifi. Dec 18 23:06:25 what's the issue? Dec 18 23:06:45 we need a general location/ssid/time based profile system Dec 18 23:07:03 yes, that would open lots of possibilities Dec 18 23:07:07 egaudet: well, stuff stored in /media/internal (including if an ipkg database is stored there) is not removed Dec 18 23:07:18 so all your apps remain installed. Dec 18 23:07:34 however, the stuff copied to /etc in the postinst is reflashed by the doctor Dec 18 23:07:41 so your services are installed, but dead in the water. Dec 18 23:08:00 and since one of them is ipkgservice, you have no option but to remove and reinstall all services Dec 18 23:08:02 heh, assuming you don't repartition Dec 18 23:08:09 who's using /media/internal for ipkg database? Dec 18 23:08:12 (and anything else which stored stuff in /var) Dec 18 23:08:42 egaudet: let's just say hypothetically someone was ... Dec 18 23:09:12 well we can do a touch file methodology Dec 18 23:09:24 a first-time type deal Dec 18 23:10:18 isn't the only issue that the install procedure needs to do ipkg -o /media/internal/ remove for instance Dec 18 23:10:35 egaudet: but there won't be any services or upstart scripts to check the touch file Dec 18 23:10:40 everything is disabled Dec 18 23:11:32 currently when you doctor you are in relatively the same boat Dec 18 23:11:46 oh wait I see now Dec 18 23:12:07 interesting conundrum Dec 18 23:12:47 so the first thing you do is install preware, and all your packages look like they are still installed, and for everything that does not modify outside of IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT, they are in fact still perfectly installed Dec 18 23:13:04 but for services, patches, etc (and the EPR database) they are broken Dec 18 23:13:34 so if ipkgservice had the first-install concept, it could wipe out all packages from the db on first-install Dec 18 23:14:00 patches however won't be broken for long after AUPT they would still be able to remove :P Dec 18 23:14:35 egaudet: but this is not a webOS version change scenario - you're not changing version of patches Dec 18 23:14:52 so you don't get an upgrade requet Dec 18 23:14:54 request Dec 18 23:15:30 this "white screen of death" on 1.3.5 is so friggin annoying Dec 18 23:15:33 oh right Dec 18 23:16:03 they wll be installed but you can remove them ok. IMO installing ipkgservice should do some cleanup if it detects a doctor was done Dec 18 23:17:38 ah, so /etc/ld.so.preload causes all binaries to load /usr/lib/libgoodabort.so before any other dynamic libs, but without that file, libgoodabort.so is not required. Dec 18 23:17:43 rwhitby: egaudet: i think ipkservice should maintain a profile.d file which puts ${IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT}/{bin|sbin} in the path Dec 18 23:17:56 it's just patching some glibc entry points Dec 18 23:18:29 PuffTheMagic, what does that solve? Dec 18 23:18:35 PuffTheMagic: that's what optware is for. Dec 18 23:18:42 egaudet: I think PuffTheMagic is starting a different thread Dec 18 23:19:15 rwhitby: this has nothing to do with optware, optware needs it own Dec 18 23:19:16 libgoodabort is just a debugging thing Dec 18 23:19:21 system should run fine without it Dec 18 23:19:29 afternoon rwhitby. Dec 18 23:20:03 egaudet: this makes C service event.d and dbus files easier to maintain Dec 18 23:20:19 if you can guarantee that they get installed to a dir thats in the path Dec 18 23:20:35 gah - an upstart script should never depend on someone not changing that path Dec 18 23:20:37 * PuffTheMagic is not a fan of hardcoding paths to bin's Dec 18 23:20:53 massive security risk if you don't hardcode paths in startup scripts Dec 18 23:21:13 yea hardcoding paths is correct Dec 18 23:21:19 * dBsooner needs to read back.. Dec 18 23:21:22 its not a security risk Dec 18 23:21:46 * rwhitby has a different opinion Dec 18 23:21:52 * egaudet does too Dec 18 23:21:58 if someone can manipulate paths to cause damage then they can already just overwrite the file Dec 18 23:22:03 the hardcoded file Dec 18 23:22:13 it no more or less secure Dec 18 23:22:23 What is PuffTheMagic being hard headed about now? Dec 18 23:22:27 :D Dec 18 23:22:27 may as well get rid of paths completly Dec 18 23:22:51 do worry, you guys only have 29 days left of me Dec 18 23:22:53 * dBsooner doesn't even need to read back to realize PuffTheMagic is probably being hard headed with egaudet and rwhitby trying to beat him with a useless stick. Dec 18 23:23:14 dBsooner: that's not a safe assumption, PuffTheMagic often has great ideas Dec 18 23:23:34 Oh, I know this. I was just giving Ryan a hard time and he knows it. :) Dec 18 23:23:49 PuffTheMagic: you're right about the security aspect. Dec 18 23:24:04 if they can change root's path, then you're owned anyway Dec 18 23:24:21 ah, thanks geist Dec 18 23:24:39 libgoodabort just overrrides abort() because the one in glibc is useless Dec 18 23:24:42 PuffTheMagic: the security risk is only for users, not for root, as you point out. Dec 18 23:25:01 the glibc one doesn't push a stack frame so you can't get a meaningful back trace from it Dec 18 23:25:07 ouch Dec 18 23:25:35 we got codesourcery to fix that one, but as of then the toolchain is still old. switching toolchains is frought with peril Dec 18 23:26:12 geist: yeah, you're back on 2007q3-53 or something, right? Dec 18 23:26:18 yeah Dec 18 23:26:32 amen on the switching toolchains comment Dec 18 23:26:50 yes, toolchains ... argh. Dec 18 23:26:50 Can I ask a dumb question real quick? (Which might be errellivant. Dec 18 23:26:53 man I spelled that wrong. Dec 18 23:26:58 lol Dec 18 23:27:20 cryptofs is a FUSE right? Dec 18 23:27:39 which resides in the same lvm with /media/internal Dec 18 23:27:57 dBsooner: which non-NDA platform are you referring to? Dec 18 23:28:12 in general Dec 18 23:28:19 cryptofs is FUSE right? Dec 18 23:28:48 even if a new toolchain is less buggy than the previous one, it almost certainly doesn't have the exact same bugs as the previous one, and that can cause all sorts of ... interesting problems Dec 18 23:28:54 in general, cryptofs has a 'source' directory which has encrypted dir names and file names and encrypted contents, but there is a one to one of dirs and files to the real thing Dec 18 23:29:28 then you mount cryptofs somewhere, giving the key, and all the encryption is removed when accessed through that mount Dec 18 23:29:31 as PuffTheMagic pointed out yesterday, cryptofs is the known fix for the /var problem. ANd as Rubenstein said yesterday, and PC.net has openly talked about, there is a fix coming. Dec 18 23:29:54 dBsooner: there has been no public statement from Palm about cryptofs Dec 18 23:30:25 * linuxjacques wonders that the /var problem is. Dec 18 23:30:43 assuming it's not "/var is too small" Dec 18 23:32:17 linuxjacques: in current webOS, apps are installed in /var, which is only 256MB total. Palm places a limit of 64MB installed or 100MB free on what apps you can install. Preware removes the first limit but keeps the second. MvApp moves and symlinks back apps from /media/internal to address the second. Rubenstein said it is fixed in 1.3.5 Dec 18 23:33:00 so this quote from yesterday's investors call doesn't count as "public"?: Anticipation is already building for webOS version 1.3.5, which will also be highlighted at CES. Among other things, this update will let customers download and store more applications, enhance WiFi and application performance, improve battery life, and increase Pixi speed and responsiveness. Dec 18 23:34:07 dBsooner: the existence of 1.3.5, and the fact that it is meant to fix the app limit is public. the mechanism by which it does that is still under NDA (even though PreCentral published information about it that they got from someone under NDA) Dec 18 23:34:41 so you're in grey area territory Dec 18 23:34:54 Well then I blame PuffTheMagic for steering me incorrectly yesterday. :D Dec 18 23:35:10 * linuxjacques just erased what he was going to say, even though he's not under NDA and barely knows what's going on. Dec 18 23:35:19 dBsooner: NDA's are an individual responsibility. Dec 18 23:35:36 I was going to speculate but decided against it. Dec 18 23:35:49 rwhitby: That's fine. STill doesn't mean I can't blame him. It just means I have to take responsibility after blaming him. Dec 18 23:35:57 lol Dec 18 23:36:10 on one hand, you could say that the information is now public, so is outside of the NDA. one the other hand you can say that even though the information is public, you're still under the NDA until that version is released. Dec 18 23:36:12 * dBsooner really is in a great mood.. It's FRIDAY. Dec 18 23:37:00 I would think someone under NDA could not discuss anything under the NDA even if others are. (but then IANAL) Dec 18 23:37:16 ok.. so in a fuse system.. how do you reformat it? Dec 18 23:37:27 dBsooner: delete the source directory Dec 18 23:37:42 or rm -rf in the mounted dir Dec 18 23:37:42 FUSE is just an API Dec 18 23:38:03 so hypothetically.. Dec 18 23:38:27 egaudet: I think ipkgservice will need to detect a first-run, and remove stuff. But then all the app catalog still will be in the same ipkg db, so we need to differentiate somehow. Dec 18 23:38:37 egaudet: and we may just want to leave normal homebrew intact Dec 18 23:38:58 if I were to install a fuse lvm under /media/internal .. any filesystem in userspace architecture... and then I doctored.. would that whipe out my fuse? Dec 18 23:39:17 hmm, is "file" in pre optware ? I need it. Dec 18 23:39:26 linuxjacques: should be Dec 18 23:39:45 linuxjacques: you can install ipkg-opt through Preware now, then use Terminal to run it ;-) Dec 18 23:39:46 cool, I'll get it as soon as I have data service of some sort. Dec 18 23:40:05 rwhitby: would you recommend I install Terminal? Dec 18 23:40:24 linuxjacques: yes, in case you need to ssh somewhere from the Pre Dec 18 23:40:29 what about wirc? Dec 18 23:40:34 linuxjacques: but I use novaterm or ssh for everything else Dec 18 23:41:04 egaudet, PuffTheMagic: speaking on wirc, will a 0.0.5 of the client be released - development seems to have stalled with lots of stuff in git that is unreleased. Dec 18 23:41:17 does ssh work _to_ the Pre over WWAN ? Dec 18 23:41:26 linuxjacques: it should do Dec 18 23:41:45 linuxjacques: but you have to modify the upstart script to enable it outside of wifi Dec 18 23:41:50 as far as we know Sprint isn't blocking any ports? Dec 18 23:42:08 linuxjacques: now that we're ssh key only, I'm considering having it open to wwan by default, especially for Pixis Dec 18 23:42:13 linuxjacques: dunno Dec 18 23:42:51 yeah it should be rather secure with keys only. Dec 18 23:43:08 linuxjacques: it's not like you can't change the port ;) Dec 18 23:43:29 would be nice to have a button to enable / disable sshd Dec 18 23:43:36 linuxjacques: wirc from preware works. there is more unreleased development in git if you want the latest, but I don't know if the latest client stuff needs a newer service Dec 18 23:43:52 linuxjacques: maybe your first app? ;-) Dec 18 23:44:04 DarkSpecter: true, but for example I can't control which ports are open in the firewall here at work. Dec 18 23:44:15 how do i update the package manager service thing..my phone is saying I need to update it but not sure where to go to do that Dec 18 23:44:57 linuxjacques: true, but somehow i doubt that you are planing to run a webserver on your pre and most firewalls dont block 80 ;) Dec 18 23:44:57 aereka: http://install.preware.org Dec 18 23:45:19 DarkSpecter: on the contrary, a webserver on the Pre is a useful thing Dec 18 23:45:24 well, not a high traffic webserver ;-) Dec 18 23:45:30 especially one on https, for webdav access Dec 18 23:45:46 with client ssl certificate support Dec 18 23:46:23 rwhitby: that might be right, AND a secure webserver still leaves port 80 unused 'g Dec 18 23:46:52 DarkSpecter: yeah, but you might want an insecure webserver for showing stuff off too :-) Dec 18 23:46:54 I wonder if sprint's data service is asymmetric Dec 18 23:47:24 I guess I need to do some tests :-) Dec 18 23:48:04 rwhitby: now you've made me curious, whats a decent webserver for the pre ? cherokee ? Dec 18 23:48:40 DarkSpecter: optware has cherokee, nginx, lighttpd, .... Dec 18 23:49:13 DarkSpecter: the nslu2-linux wiki will give comparisons. if it worked well on the slug, it will perform better on the Pre Dec 18 23:49:31 i have a pre and just installed preware, we have another one. do i have to do anything different to get the preware on that phone using the same computer? Dec 18 23:50:05 nope, http://install.preware.org again Dec 18 23:50:20 rwhitby: yeah development is stalled... but none of the stuff in git is really that important for an end user right now, most of it was my huge redesign involving breaking up of the subscription into lots of subscriptions Dec 18 23:50:34 plus the lag meter Dec 18 23:50:40 is does more harm than good it seems Dec 18 23:51:02 PuffTheMagic: ok, thanks for the heads up. Dec 18 23:51:07 i might move current master to a new branch Dec 18 23:51:20 and in a new master revert to before i merged in the lag meter Dec 18 23:51:22 then do some cleanups Dec 18 23:51:26 before 1.3.5 is out Dec 18 23:51:39 yeah, the slug was slower per-clock, running at 133 or 266 MHz with slower RAM and only 32MiB of it Dec 18 23:52:23 heck you could run apache on the pre if you limited the number of processes Dec 18 23:52:35 yep, I've done so. Dec 18 23:52:39 tho I would look at the smaller servers first Dec 18 23:52:52 lighttpd Dec 18 23:53:28 DarkSpecter: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Info/ComparingWebServers Dec 18 23:53:37 all 6 should be in optware for the Pre Dec 18 23:54:17 oh, there are actually 9 if you count minihttpd, busybox httpd and erlang yaws Dec 18 23:54:36 busybox httpd ? wow, they keep adding stuff Dec 18 23:54:46 and py-trac will run a built-in web server if you tell it too Dec 18 23:54:58 so that's at least 10 web servers in optware Dec 18 23:55:01 I gotta take off for the night Dec 18 23:55:27 later egaudet Dec 18 23:55:45 egaudet: let's chat later about the doctor issue Dec 18 23:56:13 sounds good I'll continue to think about it Dec 18 23:56:17 rwhitby: just finished reading it, cherokee is only mentioned as being still tested, right now nginx looks nice i guess :) Dec 18 23:56:37 DarkSpecter: that page is likely to be very out of date Dec 18 23:56:39 lighty ftw! Dec 18 23:56:44 "Page last modified on April 03, 2008" Dec 18 23:57:42 well I gotta change locations - be back on in a while Dec 18 23:59:14 I ran nginx fronting lighttpd on a 64MB RAM device for a while Dec 19 00:03:51 i think i'll try to compare nginx and cherokee in the next couple of days Dec 19 00:06:00 awesome, my meta-doctor authorized_keys pre-install works nicely :-) Dec 19 00:06:43 next add a webserver with webdav and a ssl certificate :P Dec 19 00:06:51 pwetypwese Dec 19 00:06:59 DarkSpecter: I'm going to add one to Preware, definitely Dec 19 00:07:32 so the mac finder can access the pre directly, instead of needing to use Fugu Dec 19 00:08:00 the doctor can pre-install the self-signed root ca bundle cert Dec 19 00:08:33 not sure about nginx and the others but cherokee has a nice admin module so it wouldnt even need a app to controll it, thats why it was the first one i had in mind Dec 19 00:09:03 DarkSpecter: so I'll be interested in your results of which web server does webdav and client ssl certs best on the Pre ;-) Dec 19 00:09:07 Is there a certain library I need to have installed to get the videos from precorder to play on my PC? Dec 19 00:09:12 I can hear the audio but no video. Dec 19 00:09:25 Not even VLC can do it. Dec 19 00:09:33 And everyone always says it can play anything. Dec 19 00:09:47 ird: did you leave the settings as default in Precorder? Dec 19 00:09:57 yes Dec 19 00:10:05 dunno then Dec 19 00:10:14 :( Dec 19 00:10:34 My install is probably broke. Dec 19 00:10:48 OS install I mean. Dec 19 00:11:27 rwhitby: i'll do my best :P Dec 19 00:11:47 DarkSpecter: whatever works, we'll package into Preware Dec 19 00:12:41 rwhitby: most should work more or less, question is which one does it with a reasonable balance between features and resource usage Dec 19 00:13:25 with easy manageability as a added bonus Dec 19 00:15:03 agreed Dec 19 00:17:16 hi. Dec 19 00:19:27 lingfish: g'day Dec 19 00:27:55 rwhitby: I just noticed changing the file extension from mp4 to avi makes them work fine... Dec 19 00:27:56 Weird. Dec 19 00:49:59 Hmm - I need a way to permanently turn off the phone radio via meta-doctor Dec 19 00:50:21 * jhojho catches up on the nginx talk. Dec 19 00:50:30 I mean webserver talk Dec 19 01:06:36 rwhitby: so far it seems to be a easy shootout, neither nginx nor cherokee directly support webdav Dec 19 01:08:58 lighty! Dec 19 01:09:59 seems like it Dec 19 01:10:30 so far the only one of the smaller ones with mod_webdav i could find Dec 19 01:13:07 you are really trying to run webdav on your phone? Dec 19 01:13:23 i tried using davfs from my pre to a webdav server and it sucked Dec 19 01:13:30 i know what u are doing is the other way around Dec 19 01:13:41 but i would imagine it will suck for the same reason Dec 19 01:13:57 well why did it suck ? Dec 19 01:15:09 timedout all the time Dec 19 01:15:21 couldnt transfer any files Dec 19 01:15:34 it's not like i realy need it, but it's a intertesting sideproject and ppl seem to want to be able to share files with their pre over wifi Dec 19 01:16:02 yeah, but i dont think webdav is the answer for that Dec 19 01:16:06 i have an idea though Dec 19 01:16:07 and a small webserver that hat dav support seems much more reasonable than a samba server :P Dec 19 01:16:22 bluetooth pan + file transfer gui Dec 19 01:16:45 tbh, bt on the pre sucks donkeyballs Dec 19 01:16:52 no way it works fine Dec 19 01:16:58 i mean... limited profile support Dec 19 01:17:05 but bnep works fine Dec 19 01:17:17 :D donkeyballs Dec 19 01:17:23 i thought i was the only one that said that Dec 19 01:17:48 ok, my tests are limited, but out of 3 bt headsets none could be discovered Dec 19 01:18:23 thats odd, the actual bt stack and the low level stuff works fine Dec 19 01:18:31 i cant speak for the mojo wrapper/interface around it Dec 19 01:18:49 but bnep/pan works really well, esp with myTether/freeTether Dec 19 01:19:00 and it would be perfect for sharing files Dec 19 01:19:06 would be interesting to find out why you had those timeouts Dec 19 01:19:24 it could have been davfs related.... not the server Dec 19 01:19:27 but i dont know Dec 19 01:19:42 the server was in germany Dec 19 01:19:53 guess i'll find out sooner or later Dec 19 01:20:28 pan is nice, but more users have elan available than bt Dec 19 01:20:42 plus bt is SLOW Dec 19 01:21:15 and bt filetransfer would require some kind of crappy gui :P Dec 19 01:22:01 bt is fast enought Dec 19 01:22:06 esp for phone to phone stuff Dec 19 01:22:17 well actually Dec 19 01:22:27 i guess the gui would work for bt or wifi Dec 19 01:28:11 wifi would be nice! the only drawback is not everybody has it on device Dec 19 01:28:42 whoa. just got my first ever complete crash from chrome. Dec 19 01:29:10 still though it could be used for file transfer at home or office Dec 19 01:29:37 sslow: how can u even say that Dec 19 01:30:03 sslow: besides wifi and bt being the only options anyway... everyone has wifi an bt these days Dec 19 01:31:28 there are lots of lappys out there that only have wifi Dec 19 01:31:55 bt chips are cheap. get a dongle or just solder one onto your board. you really have no excuse not to. :P Dec 19 01:32:12 yeah so people should have at least bt or wifi Dec 19 01:32:15 and transfering a bunch of music over bt is a pain ;) Dec 19 01:32:18 but regardless Dec 19 01:32:26 how else are u gonna transfer files? Dec 19 01:32:47 wifi or cable are the only speedy options Dec 19 01:32:49 what other choices are there Dec 19 01:32:55 what cable? Dec 19 01:33:03 usb Dec 19 01:33:10 ethernet? Dec 19 01:33:15 firewire? Dec 19 01:33:18 u dont webdav for usb Dec 19 01:33:21 pre has now firewire Dec 19 01:33:27 lol Dec 19 01:33:37 yours doesn't? Dec 19 01:33:39 you guys arent making any sense Dec 19 01:33:40 oh, sorry Dec 19 01:34:14 you can webdav over IP usbnet Dec 19 01:34:30 ok let me rephrase it Dec 19 01:34:58 speedy options are wifi+dav or using the pre as a usb drive Dec 19 01:35:42 why do u keep brining up dav Dec 19 01:35:55 why not smb/cifs, ftp, ssh, etc etc Dec 19 01:36:04 dav is like the worse option here Dec 19 01:36:12 because it*s easy to use and most operating systems out there support it Dec 19 01:36:14 um, pixi doesn't have wifi Dec 19 01:36:29 well, sprint pixi's don't. ;) Dec 19 01:36:40 DarkSpecter: most web browsers support ftp too Dec 19 01:36:48 debilater is using webdav fine with server on pre Dec 19 01:36:53 and its less suck that webdav Dec 19 01:37:34 http://www.daemon.de/PalmPreHowtoWebdav Dec 19 01:37:36 PuffTheMagic: hello, i just PMed you about freetether. Are you getting them? Dec 19 01:37:45 greg_roll: yeah i see it now Dec 19 01:38:06 ird: I've noticed that extensions don't matter so much as you'd expect for the music and video apps, as long as the extension is associated. Dec 19 01:38:19 DarkSpecter: we should just package up that howto in preware Dec 19 01:40:11 wifi+dev works out of the box for all platforms as clients and pre as server Dec 19 01:40:17 s/dev/dav/ Dec 19 01:40:18 rwhitby meant: wifi+dav works out of the box for all platforms as clients and pre as server Dec 19 01:40:51 +PuffTheMagic: I was refering to handheld devices Dec 19 01:42:11 rwhitby: out of the box ? didnt know that, i'll have to try :) Dec 19 01:42:30 DarkSpecter: yep, most recent operating systems do Dav out of the box in the browser Dec 19 01:43:04 that i know, i was just wondering that the pre does it out of the box ;) Dec 19 01:43:31 DarkSpecter: ah, you mean as a client? dunno. Dec 19 01:48:26 ok, we need to add an upstart script to lighttpd, and we need an icon for Preware to show :-) Dec 19 01:49:16 I have never used dav. ever. Dec 19 01:49:51 dav w/ lighty? nice Dec 19 01:49:55 I wonder if I can remove the openldap-libs dependency - I expect not many people will be using ldap for authentication on the Pre's webserver ... Dec 19 01:50:08 you never know Dec 19 01:50:11 just kidding Dec 19 01:50:44 well, I guess the Pre could be talking to a remote ldaps over ssl for authentication requests ... Dec 19 01:50:53 its sad that ldap is not more widely use as auth technology ( for the web ) Dec 19 01:50:57 or you could run slapd on the Pre itself Dec 19 01:51:24 jhojho: all the stuff I ever do uses ldap on the back end and ssl client certs on the front end. goodbye to usernames and passwords forever. Dec 19 01:51:44 heh. not everyone is so enlightened Dec 19 01:52:40 i remember a former client where we had the opp to do single sign on as part of a new build out. in the end, only 3 apps out of 75 were SSO because the rest of the apps could not get it together. ugh. Dec 19 01:53:09 well, I usually shoot for zero sign on - using client ssl certs Dec 19 01:53:34 single sign on is so last century ;-) Dec 19 01:53:35 plus it's a great address book ;) Dec 19 01:53:37 lots of enterprises can't do that. they are stuck in the user/pass pattern Dec 19 01:53:40 gotta get everyone to have them first Dec 19 01:54:07 i'm lucky if people hash the passwords =) Dec 19 01:54:13 howdy all Dec 19 01:54:15 anyway, you can be sure the web server in Preware will have client ssl support :-) Dec 19 01:54:27 rwhitby: a second factor can come in handy. of course if you use full disk encryption and have to decrypt with a passphrase or physical fob, that would be a nice two factor "signon-less" system Dec 19 01:54:30 and no SSLv2 please Dec 19 01:54:31 jacques: http://www.daemon.de/PalmPreHowtoWebdav - we're going to put in Preware Dec 19 01:54:39 destinal: oh, passphrase on the cert of course Dec 19 01:54:56 destinal: what you have and what you know Dec 19 01:55:21 *nods* .. sounds solid to me Dec 19 01:55:23 rwhitby: whats the target enablement with dav? Dec 19 01:55:47 Robi_: access Pre file system securely from any windows, linux or mac stock install Dec 19 01:55:49 rwhitby, wow, cool! Dec 19 01:55:56 hmm. ubuntu hardy does not have SNI support Dec 19 01:56:13 debian lenny does though. Dec 19 01:56:46 rwhitby: not bad. presumably lighttpd has negligable impact on system resources when idle.. Dec 19 01:57:02 rwhitby: what's lighty's footprint like on the pre? Dec 19 01:57:03 destinal: dunno, something to determine. could be run in inetd perhaps Dec 19 01:57:16 rwhitby: what about ap security? Dec 19 01:59:05 Robi_: over ssl of course Dec 19 01:59:25 client cert protected Dec 19 01:59:46 (client cert stuff optional) Dec 19 02:00:08 sorry, app, not ap Dec 19 02:00:54 Robi_: ah, I see. default install can have explicit exclusions, which can be disabled on the command line (cause if you've got command line, you've got the apps anyway) Dec 19 02:01:21 nod, but visually it's much more, ahem.. tempting Dec 19 02:01:36 out of the box it should preserve the thin veil of security that authors think they have Dec 19 02:02:08 that'll be an important mist feature :] Dec 19 02:02:10 Preware should never make the device less secure (for various definitions of security) via default cofigurations Dec 19 02:02:29 but once you have command line, all bets are off Dec 19 02:02:40 (since you own the device then anyway) Dec 19 02:03:33 greetings... i have a question regarding the terminal application Dec 19 02:03:42 hmm. I wonder what happened to the git pull --all option Dec 19 02:04:10 i installed ncftp so i could edit files from my webservers on the road, but found out that nano fails to catch carriage returns correctly Dec 19 02:04:13 any advice? Dec 19 02:04:41 sorry about that - my laptop has been locking up occasionally ever since I was forced to move to the open source ATI drivers :-\ Dec 19 02:04:48 would be open to other editors, but i don't particularily enjoy vi Dec 19 02:05:12 lasydais: yeah, Terminal and nano don't like each other. Dec 19 02:05:15 rwhitby, could you please paste that webdav link again? Dec 19 02:05:18 http://www.daemon.de/PalmPreHowtoWebdav Dec 19 02:05:24 thnks! Dec 19 02:05:48 nano looks pretty good except for occasional page scrolling issues, and the carriage return thing Dec 19 02:05:51 jacques: you need to send me an ssh key for git.w-i.org Dec 19 02:06:10 lasydais: optware has many other editors - uemacs for instance Dec 19 02:06:13 or jove Dec 19 02:06:30 i was grown and groomed on nano, which would you suggest? Dec 19 02:06:35 simple but functional Dec 19 02:06:41 * dsevil likes joe Dec 19 02:06:49 dunno, I edit files on the Pre over wifi using Emacs and tramp on the Mac Dec 19 02:06:52 rwhitby, yes, I will do that Dec 19 02:06:54 run it as jmacs for emacs-ish keybindings Dec 19 02:07:12 interesting, i will try both of those Dec 19 02:07:21 I'd like to use my old one which is on the old HD from this laptop Dec 19 02:07:22 thanks for pointing me the right direction! Dec 19 02:07:42 jacques: is that on any of the nslu2 boxes? Dec 19 02:07:56 rwhitby, yes it should be the same one Dec 19 02:07:58 oh, you need to get the private part back. I see. Dec 19 02:08:08 yep, but 99% sure I still have that. Dec 19 02:08:33 I just forgot to copy it to this laptop when I upgraded the drive Dec 19 02:09:02 jacques: hmm - not on limax Dec 19 02:09:22 nor builder Dec 19 02:09:43 nor nudi Dec 19 02:09:58 jacques: ok, I don't have it. Dec 19 02:10:04 rwhitby, the private part? Dec 19 02:10:08 jacques: public Dec 19 02:10:23 hmm. did you look under fontenot ? Dec 19 02:10:29 I wasn't expecting to find your private key anywhere ;-) Dec 19 02:10:56 jacques: I think nudi has been rebuilt since you last accessed it Dec 19 02:11:12 ah ok. what about bananna ? :-) Dec 19 02:11:54 don't think banana is in service any more Dec 19 02:12:08 (for those watching, these are all names of slugs) Dec 19 02:13:00 see page 23 of http://www.nslu2-linux.org/presentation.pdf if you're interested Dec 19 02:14:01 maybe I've been dormant for too long :-) Dec 19 02:15:01 dsevil, thanks for the joe suggestion! i like, it even has color coding, i will be sticking with that assuming it works fully... thank you all Dec 19 02:17:04 * rwhitby needs to find someone to replace all the manual optware bootstrap instructions with new Preware-based instructions ... Dec 19 02:17:45 I've only had my pre a few days and already I'm expecting my laptop firefox to have kinetic scrolling Dec 19 02:19:15 * PuffTheMagic votes for rwhitby to replace them ;) Dec 19 02:19:26 * oil seconds Dec 19 02:20:04 I've already written them. In the Makefile ... Dec 19 02:20:16 but some people seem to want more for some reason ... Dec 19 02:20:19 oist it Dec 19 02:20:33 s/oist/post/ Dec 19 02:20:39 PuffTheMagic meant: post it Dec 19 02:20:53 hey i hate to be the painful newbie... so last question, i love the terminal so i can get work done, but i hate the corners getting cut off by the pre ui... is there anything i can do about it? Dec 19 02:21:26 no, wait for dfbterm in a card ;) Dec 19 02:21:54 i figured, but thought i would ask, i absolutely love it as is though, i can actually use my pre for work Dec 19 02:35:32 Okay, I'm back. Dec 19 02:35:34 Who missed me? Dec 19 02:35:57 freakout: who are you? Dec 19 02:36:04 lol Dec 19 02:36:11 haha Dec 19 02:36:15 oh dear. that bad huh? Dec 19 02:36:23 I was going to say something snarky but rwhitby beat me to it Dec 19 02:36:35 oh, *that* freakout Dec 19 02:36:57 too much STO? Dec 19 02:36:57 infobot, Tim Carroll? Dec 19 02:36:59 from memory, tim carroll is a speedo wearing looser Dec 19 02:37:03 :O Dec 19 02:37:03 HAHA Dec 19 02:37:07 EGUY Dec 19 02:37:09 ROFL Dec 19 02:37:20 ~botsnack Dec 19 02:37:21 thanks, rwhitby Dec 19 02:37:23 wth. i've been waiting all day for my macbook to show up from ups. it's almost 7pm and still no macbook Dec 19 02:37:40 * freakout is going to take revenge on Eguy Dec 19 02:37:45 ups truck has shown up outside my house twice but no dice. Dec 19 02:38:14 jhojho: oh, that reminds me, I need to drop into the office today to pick up the parcel that UPS delivered 15 minutes after I left for the christmas barbie yesterday. two new touchstones :-) Dec 19 02:38:15 oil: STO beta is totally open this weekend, it's sweet Dec 19 02:38:35 rwhitby: nice. I just picked one up last week. Dec 19 02:38:37 loving it Dec 19 02:38:49 jhojho: I have 4 now Dec 19 02:38:52 it's frivolous if you think about it but still cool Dec 19 02:39:01 4 is a little excessive =) Dec 19 02:39:27 I guess I could end up with 4 at some point, 1 per floor and 1 for the car. Dec 19 02:39:29 not if you have 2 Pre's Dec 19 02:40:01 trying hard to talk the gf into getting a pixi. but she's resisting the move from vz to sprint. Dec 19 02:40:19 and it hinges on the existence of a pink pixi. Dec 19 02:40:48 facepalm. i swear if she could have everything pink, she would. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Dec 19 02:59:56 2009