**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Dec 20 02:59:56 2009 Dec 20 03:02:14 Sorry to bother everyone but is this the channel for MEID solutions or would that be somewhere else thanks Dec 20 03:03:21 Sorry to bother everyone but is this the channel for MEID solutions or would that be somewhere else thanks Dec 20 03:03:37 elsewhere Dec 20 03:04:36 thanks can you perhaps could you point me in the right direction Dec 20 03:04:59 mobile-files.com Dec 20 03:05:56 damn I tried there guide and i needed someone to walk me through or to send my phone to and pay them for their efforts Dec 20 03:06:14 is there any live chat that you know of and again thanks so much Dec 20 03:11:59 no Dec 20 03:21:29 ugh i cant wait for 1.3.5.... Dec 20 03:26:21 Worst kept secret in Palm History Dec 20 03:57:15 my google maps always loads with latitude now Dec 20 03:57:22 no iphone spoof either Dec 20 04:01:31 Abyssul: google is just playing with you. they have a department for that Dec 20 04:02:17 hmph Dec 20 04:02:55 its true though :( Dec 20 04:03:03 Now i just need a friend to test it out lol Dec 20 04:06:21 It's still buggy though...the friends options goes away if you play with the map enough Dec 20 04:06:41 I got it to go away if you hit "clear map" Dec 20 04:07:03 and it says im in the wrong city Dec 20 04:07:12 but my gps is correct Dec 20 05:58:34 So, anyone alpha testing Preware 0.9.13 and Package Manager Service 0.9.26 ? Dec 20 06:15:04 The one with auto update working? Or is there another one? Dec 20 06:15:26 yes Dec 20 07:04:04 hi all Dec 20 07:06:22 random question, I want to be able to upload mp3s via ftp. But I'm not sure where to put them Dec 20 07:06:39 if I put them in my home directory the music player doesn't detect them Dec 20 07:07:00 and I can't seem to create a writable directory in /media/internals Dec 20 07:09:14 have you tried remounting the fs as writable? Dec 20 07:09:20 From the terminal or something. Dec 20 07:10:31 yea, i have the fs writeable so i could create directories Dec 20 07:11:40 ftp can write to the home directory, but thats it Dec 20 07:11:52 is there a way to get the player to look for mp3 files there? Dec 20 07:12:32 I don't think so. Dec 20 07:12:38 But there are many other people way smarter than me. Dec 20 07:12:41 jackpot: use ssh keys, sftp and transfer them as root Dec 20 07:12:46 See Dec 20 07:12:53 cool Dec 20 07:13:05 a little more effort then I was hoping for but a good idea :) Dec 20 07:13:38 post #3 in http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre-tips-information-resources/220264-easiest-method-wifi-file-transfer.html Dec 20 07:14:20 ird: any problems with the alpha versions? Dec 20 07:16:31 Pretty smooth so far. Dec 20 07:16:58 Update All has worked every time so far, but I haven't done it wih a large amount of packages. Dec 20 07:18:22 should i be starting from a fresh install before using preware for ssh ftp? Dec 20 07:18:48 i had manually installed packages before preware became as awesome as it is now Dec 20 07:26:03 jackpot: you should probably ipkg-opt remove stuff first Dec 20 07:26:27 but they should not collide with each other - they'll just install the same files in the same places Dec 20 07:26:39 ok Dec 20 07:26:47 ill risk it, and doctor it if it blows up Dec 20 07:28:25 the only thing that can go wrong is if you install the same package with both, and them remove it with one - the other will think it's still installed, but the files will be gone Dec 20 08:30:57 rwhitby: is there a graphical interface that I can use with openssh? Dec 20 13:07:44 geist: if you are around, were you ever able to find out the origin of the whole "skankphone" name from that dude you were planning on asking? Dec 20 13:56:26 alpha alpha alpha Dec 20 17:59:16 is it a known issue that wifi networking doesnt work, i cant ssh into my pre at all Dec 20 18:00:13 using wifi for outgoing connections seems to work fine though Dec 20 18:01:29 did you install dropbear? Dec 20 18:02:16 no openssh, but i had dropbear before and it didnt work either Dec 20 18:03:32 is it running? Dec 20 18:04:36 sure Dec 20 18:05:23 ..got nuthin' Dec 20 18:09:47 i can ssh into my pre when i have a active outgoing connection like for example a loading website, bus as soon as the site finishes loading the ssh connection times out Dec 20 18:10:20 DarkSpecter: ah, is your screen going off? try plugging it into the wall charger and see if it stays alive Dec 20 18:11:21 this is all with a active wifi connection, on the touchstone with nodoze active Dec 20 18:12:42 oh, well...crap Dec 20 18:13:28 * sugardave doesn't have a Touchstone. "But I think I'm getting one for Christmas." Dec 20 18:16:23 it's nice and stuff, but you'll need a extra micro usb cable to access your pre as usb device, either that or you will constantly unplug your stone because for that ;) Dec 20 18:17:06 rwhitby: ping Dec 20 18:18:07 DarkSpecter: You have dropbear install? Dec 20 18:18:29 thatdude: no, i ditched it in favour of openssh Dec 20 18:18:58 DarkSpecter: Did you use the install script provided by webos-internals? Dec 20 18:20:03 thatdude: it's not a installation issue, it worked before, i think it could be 1.3.1 related as i never had such problems with 1.1.3 Dec 20 18:20:50 DarkSpecter: Wrong, I have 1.3.1 and all is working without any issue. Something went wrong in between. Dec 20 18:21:07 thatdude: Also you did not answer my question. Did you install optware? Dec 20 18:21:50 thatdude: yes Dec 20 18:22:57 DarkSpecter: I recommend for you to start over...and run optware-bootstrap.sh Dec 20 18:23:28 DarkSpecter: remember port is 222 Dec 20 18:23:59 thatdude: i dont see how that might help, as thats exactly the way i installed optware, back then optware wasnt avalable through preware like nowadays Dec 20 18:24:23 and no the port is 22, as i said i use sshd and not dropbear Dec 20 18:24:42 DarkSpecter: There is a conflict somewhere and you need to troubleshoot and figure out what conflict it is. Dec 20 18:27:01 thatdude: i dont think so, my guess is it might be a ipt issue Dec 20 18:28:54 DarkSpecter: That's a conflict. Anyways good luck. Dec 20 19:04:24 is the package server down? I'm getting a 404 when trying to update the package list. Dec 20 19:44:29 Where can I find the controls for the center button, and the card switcher home screen? Dec 20 19:50:18 DarkSpecter: pong Dec 20 19:50:58 rwhitby: :) Dec 20 19:51:44 was hoping you might have a idea what could cause my wifi problems Dec 20 19:52:49 outgoing connections from the pre seem to work fine, but i cant ssh in or connect to lighty, unless i have a active outgoing connection on the pre like for example a loading website Dec 20 19:53:26 DarkSpecter: so the screen is on, you have a wifi icon with bars instead of a 3G icon, and you can't ssh in, but when you initiate some traffic from the Pre, then ssh connects? Dec 20 19:54:05 yup Dec 20 19:54:43 No idea. I run 1.3.1 GSM, and can connect fine via openssh when the device is either screen on or sitting on touchstone. Dec 20 19:54:55 (or when I run nodoze) Dec 20 19:55:17 1.3.1 gsm, stone or nodoze, same here Dec 20 19:55:19 thatdude: BTW, OpenSSH is now in Preware - no need for optware-bootstrap script any more Dec 20 19:55:43 thatdude: Preware version of OpenSSH is port 22, wifi, keys only, no passwords, root user. Dec 20 19:55:55 but ssh stoped working for me without a obvious reason Dec 20 19:56:11 DarkSpecter: when ssh is not working, can you ping? Dec 20 19:56:47 i was suspecting iptables, but the only pachages i have installed that ness with the rules are openssh and lighty, and both only add trivial rules Dec 20 19:57:26 no ping, host unreachable Dec 20 19:57:45 and my pre is siting here before me with wifi showing full bars Dec 20 20:00:52 Does anyone have any idea where the files for the center button are? Dec 20 20:02:22 DarkSpecter: I would start to suspect your wifi router Dec 20 20:03:35 maybe some power saving mode in the router Dec 20 20:04:54 normaly i would too, but it's just a linksys wrt160n and 3 coputers have no issues to connect to the outside world or each other Dec 20 20:05:05 rwhitby, I just installed openssh sftp through preware, is http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Setup_SFTP the best instructions for setting up the keys? Dec 20 20:05:27 jacques: homepage for openssh in Preware Dec 20 20:06:10 DarkSpecter: connect via usb, ipkg-opt install tcpdump, start tracing packets ... Dec 20 20:06:48 damn, i was hoping its a known issue and i could get around that :P Dec 20 20:09:08 nope, ssh over wifi is stable as a rock for me Dec 20 20:09:25 used to be for me too Dec 20 20:11:18 hello guys Dec 20 20:11:19 rwhitby: mind showing me your iptables -L in pastebin ? just want to make sure i dont have roughe rules Dec 20 20:12:36 http://webos.pastebin.com/d593c979a are the important ones (I have Lighty installed too) Dec 20 20:12:44 thx Dec 20 20:13:53 DarkSpecter: I've also modified the ssh upstart to allow from anywhere. will probably do that by default since we're using keys Dec 20 20:14:04 (then pixi users can get in on the action) Dec 20 20:15:47 guys do anyone have fix for imap email issue. I am not getting notifications for new emails also I get that triangle and (!) thing in all inbox. I tried all given solutions; moved all emails from inbox and archived, deleted accounts and added them one by one, doctored Pre to 1.3.1 3 times and made new gmail accounts and checked. Tech support at Palm said its known issue and gave me ticket number (tier 2). Any smart guy here can h Dec 20 20:15:47 try any other solution? Dec 20 20:22:32 ...novaterm is painfull to use :P Dec 20 20:24:18 what makes it painful ? Dec 20 20:25:18 no shift+pgup/pgdown scrolling ;) Dec 20 20:26:53 not sure if thats novaterm related too, but mc wasn usable either Dec 20 20:27:33 what's good., Dec 20 20:30:53 hrm, i don't remember novaterm not being able to do that .. it should be fine .. try a screen inside of novaterm to see if that gives you the keys you want ? Dec 20 20:32:08 heh Dec 20 20:32:56 just tried it, no scrolling and no cursor keys in screen either Dec 20 20:33:16 but i was impressed that screen was preinstalled ;) Dec 20 20:34:10 but it seems that at least all function keys seem to work in screen now Dec 20 20:46:05 weird that you can't scroll in screen ..sorry Dec 20 20:47:11 np, it works kinda with the buttons on the scrollbar, just a bit cumbersome Dec 20 20:57:16 rwhitby: what's this about pixi? Dec 20 20:57:38 anybody with one formally requested source yet? Dec 20 20:57:56 tmzt: not that I know of Dec 20 20:58:43 it was verified to have a fairly old kernel if I remeber right Dec 20 21:00:17 well I can ssh into my pre now Dec 20 21:00:53 (over wifi) Dec 20 21:01:23 are there touchstone patches that I am inept at finding? I refuse to believe no one has made a patch to force screen off while on touchstone Dec 20 21:01:39 how do you sleep in the same room? Dec 20 21:01:56 * oil has no problem Dec 20 21:02:26 I guess I like the dark too much :> Dec 20 21:02:44 oh, i like it pitch black Dec 20 21:02:45 its just Dec 20 21:02:51 not bright at all Dec 20 21:02:52 lol Dec 20 21:03:04 then again, its not facing me Dec 20 21:03:41 the blue led on my center speaker annoys me more then the pre does Dec 20 21:03:50 to the point i put tape over it Dec 20 21:06:36 maybe the ambient light sensor is not calibrated correctly on mine.. it's definitely brighter than i want it to be when on the touchstone Dec 20 21:06:50 yeah, people who blue leds in hardware need to be locked in a room with a hundred of them Dec 20 21:06:55 *who put Dec 20 21:07:04 i've learned to just not charge it overnight .. and pop it onto the charger when i get into the shower in the morning Dec 20 21:07:07 teh speaker led lights up the entire freakin room Dec 20 21:07:09 to get that little bit of juice back Dec 20 21:07:30 the pre doesn't annoy me at all Dec 20 21:07:36 I like blue leds, there should just be a physical switch to turn them off Dec 20 21:07:53 its called, a little piece of electrical tape Dec 20 21:07:53 I even installed the patch to bring brightness down to 0 Dec 20 21:07:59 * jacques has learned to hate blue LEDs. Dec 20 21:07:59 lol Dec 20 21:09:35 zsoc: I'll be looking into such a patch. But I need to be able to distinguish which of my 4 touchstones the Pre is on, cause I want it dark on one, normal on another, always-on in the car and desk at work. Dec 20 21:09:53 lol Dec 20 21:10:20 rwhitby: you have too many things :p Dec 20 21:10:23 * rwhitby is considering a touchstone-holster for my belt ... Dec 20 21:11:37 rwhitby: that is the silliest thing I've heard this week Dec 20 21:12:02 I'm thinking of maybe making the power switch be three-way with a timeout. Dec 20 21:12:38 timeout expired, push for on, push for off (or lock screen if on puck) Dec 20 21:13:06 when pushed for off on puck, if the power button is pushed again then go dark Dec 20 21:13:23 otherwise, it's always screen on when on the puck Dec 20 21:13:38 sounds good Dec 20 21:13:57 if dark when placed on touchstone, remain dark Dec 20 21:14:24 if on when placed on touchstone, remain on, but power push can go to lock, then to dark. Dec 20 21:15:15 I'll probably just try and convince Jason that's the way things should be, and wait for him to do the patch ... Dec 20 21:15:37 rwhitby: probably a good idea, time-saving wise :p Dec 20 21:15:51 rwhitby: you going to CES? :D Dec 20 21:16:13 zsoc: you paying the airfare? Dec 20 21:16:35 which airport do you fly out of? sydney ? Dec 20 21:16:39 I didn't even get an invite from Palm :-( Dec 20 21:17:02 bpadalino: Adelaide, via Sydney or Melbourne or Brisbane Dec 20 21:17:32 The US is only a dinner, a movie, and a snooze away from Australia. Dec 20 21:17:44 ok, looks like my pre is having strange wifi problems, its now only a few meters away from the AP and when i ping it i have c.a. 50% packet loss and those packets that reach it have a roundtrip time between 3 and 1400 ms Dec 20 21:17:52 and about $3k it seems for round trip Dec 20 21:18:40 in USD Dec 20 21:19:16 yep Dec 20 21:20:18 rwhitby: lol I would, but they don't let me into CES anymore, since 'the incident' Dec 20 21:20:49 zsoc: that's why you're sending the ticket to me, right? Dec 20 21:21:05 'the incident' ? Dec 20 21:21:11 sounds like a fun story Dec 20 21:22:30 bpadalino: a hotel, alcohol, and an incendiary couch. Dec 20 21:22:55 wow, that sounds like quite a time Dec 20 21:23:06 also, I just realised 2 days ago how 'orange + swipe' works to move around editable text. I am slow. Dec 20 21:23:24 boy, does that bring back memories...going to CES. Dec 20 21:23:50 i'm using the hid test keyboard naming and calling the orange key on the pre 'blob' ... Dec 20 21:24:07 bpadalino: only half that story is true, lol. I mean the story is true, but it happened at E3. I've never been to CES Dec 20 21:24:15 ah Dec 20 21:24:33 i've never been to either e3 or ces Dec 20 21:24:52 zsoc: I only just found blob+shift+swipe for selecting things yesterday. Dec 20 21:27:01 I don't feel so bad now ;) Dec 20 21:27:47 OK, so I think it's time to start replacing all the optware bootstrap instructions with "Just install OpenSSH SFTP Server in Preware, and generate some keys" Dec 20 21:28:31 Who here hasn't migrated from optware-bootstrap.sh to Optware in Preware yet? Dec 20 21:28:31 just save them somewhere though Dec 20 21:28:43 when I get Pre I intend to do it that way :) Dec 20 21:28:46 tmzt: wiki history Dec 20 21:28:54 to see how much fun you guys have had Dec 20 21:29:02 not a KManual Installation' page Dec 20 21:29:09 ? Dec 20 21:30:30 rwhitby: i did kinda, installing lighty and openssh via preware pulled most of the regular optware stuff in Dec 20 21:45:28 I'm going to have to write something to keep the Pre on when there is an ssh connection active. Dec 20 21:50:57 last | grep 'still logged in' Dec 20 22:07:18 or pty Dec 20 22:07:24 hmm Dec 20 22:28:31 rwhitby: do you have any recommendations for a decent "NAS-in-a-box"? Dec 20 22:28:47 I am looking at a couple Seagate's and a Netgear one, all at Best Buy. Dec 20 22:29:30 I "might/should" be getting a $1500-2000 Best Buy shopping spree for a 2009 safety program bonus from my employer. Dec 20 22:30:38 dBsooner: I use a QNAP TS-409 running Debian Lenny Dec 20 22:30:49 And I really want to setup a stand alone NAS/NFS... But I would like for it to run linux so I can setup my remote servers to rsync backup to it as well. Dec 20 22:31:38 dBsooner: Look at the Optware target platforms ... Dec 20 22:31:47 mmk Dec 20 22:32:19 those qnap's are nice... Dec 20 22:32:47 409 has 4 ata hot-swap slots? Dec 20 22:33:39 rwhitby: you referring to: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Optware/Platforms Dec 20 22:36:27 yep, the TS409 actually uses the same optware feed as the Pre Dec 20 22:37:36 I use the hot-swap capability of the 409 to take an offsite backup disk from my home to my work - RAID1 auto-resync ftw Dec 20 22:37:47 Nice! Dec 20 22:38:14 I think i might actually drop the money on a QNAP instead of trying to buy one from Best Buy with my shopping spree. Dec 20 22:38:44 dBsooner: freeNAS is so sexy. find a super old box and a new HD ;) Dec 20 22:38:47 because the only two from Best Buy I can get are a Netgear Stora (which is bottom of the line, technically) and then Seagate pro's. Dec 20 22:39:00 I like freeNAS dsitro. Dec 20 22:39:07 the stock vendor firmware for qnap with optware additions is pretty good if you don't want to run debian lenny Dec 20 22:39:08 I actually had it running in a VBox Dec 20 22:39:36 but I don't have a new enough "old system" to donate to it.. I want it to have SATA for RAID1 Dec 20 22:39:43 CIFS/smb is a wonderfully efficient protocol in my experience for multi-OS use. Dec 20 22:40:08 sorry, I generally throw my ideas in where they don't belong/aren't asked for Dec 20 22:40:29 And I have fully decided to make a stand alone NAS/NFS box.. which I would love for it to run a linux system.. or as rwhitby has so graciously pointed me to.. optware. Dec 20 22:41:14 optware is linux .. Dec 20 22:41:16 freeNAS is BSD I think ;) Dec 20 22:41:58 but yeah, freeNAS or Foonas.org is good too Dec 20 22:43:29 rwhitby: right, but what I was eluding to: Option 1) build a linux server full system. Install all the packages from mainstream feeds. .. or .. OPtion 2) (new) get a "out-of-box" NAS server and use optware feeds. Dec 20 22:43:42 foonas is a bit stagnant now though Dec 20 22:44:41 freeNAS is quite impressive. Dec 20 22:44:55 the netgear Stora system is for "non-techies" Dec 20 22:45:12 it allows you to stream media from the NAS to the internet via "MyStora.com" Dec 20 22:46:23 hmm... plus it will auto0matically back up to flickr and other palces. Dec 20 22:46:47 But I don't think I would be happy with having to "stay inside the box" that netgear would set. Dec 20 22:46:58 I would want to be able to configure it how "I" want to. Dec 20 22:47:06 So I think spending the money on a QNAS would be better. Dec 20 22:47:15 Or just building a small rack server. Dec 20 22:47:21 like a 2U Dec 20 22:49:12 rod Dec 20 22:49:27 I am going to forward you an email real quick, can you take a sec to look at the screenshots in the tarball? Dec 20 22:49:39 woops.. sorry.. rwhitby ^^ Dec 20 22:50:13 sure Dec 20 22:50:34 sent. Dec 20 22:51:37 i give up for today, as soon as one problem is solved the next one comes up :P Dec 20 22:51:50 what is the problem now ? Dec 20 22:51:52 dBsooner: yep, that one is good Dec 20 22:51:57 I thought so as well. Dec 20 22:52:02 DarkSpecter: why are you making problems? :p Dec 20 22:52:09 after lots of tinkering and a couple pre reboots my wifi magicaly works again Dec 20 22:52:09 too bad it can't "HIDE" them.. lol. Dec 20 22:53:41 so i finaly could play around with lighttpd, works nice, https and auth work like a charm, but trying to connect to it with DAV doesnt even show up in syslog Dec 20 22:53:53 gues this time its windows fault :P Dec 20 22:54:29 zsoc: i'm not making them, i'm just good at finding problems :P Dec 20 22:55:01 DarkSpecter: well, using windows is making problems, isn't it? Dec 20 22:55:44 rwhitby: cant be helped, this is not my box so i cant install a real os on it Dec 20 22:56:03 rwhitby: what would be the status of using cifs/smb over wifi or evdo on a webos device? is anyone working on it? Dec 20 22:56:44 zsoc: samba is in optware, should work out of the box Dec 20 22:56:47 * DarkSpecter thinks DAV is a better solution than smb on the pre Dec 20 22:57:36 rwhitby: because in theory a good configuration of that would be very useful for windows/preware users Dec 20 22:58:07 zsoc: what authentication should be used? Dec 20 22:58:43 * rwhitby wonders whether kerberos would work on the Pre ... Dec 20 22:58:47 rwhitby: on wifi wouldn't the subnet restriction be good enough? Dec 20 22:59:02 zsoc: not on a hotspot ap Dec 20 22:59:33 and you wouldn't want files flying around in cleartext either Dec 20 22:59:44 DarkSpecter: FTP!!!! Dec 20 22:59:45 that's why DAV access will be over https Dec 20 22:59:51 every broswer supports it Dec 20 22:59:51 rwhitby: kerberos is a good option... doesn't cifs support some type of really bad auth by default? Dec 20 22:59:54 why mess with DAV Dec 20 23:00:20 PuffTheMagic: I wouldn't say IE _supports_ ftp so much... Dec 20 23:00:28 they all do Dec 20 23:00:29 cause people know how to drive a browser, not an ftp client. Dec 20 23:00:32 drag and drop Dec 20 23:00:36 at least my experiences are bad with it Dec 20 23:00:43 browsers are ftp clients Dec 20 23:00:46 since like 10 years ago Dec 20 23:00:48 no secure ones Dec 20 23:00:50 even IE did it Dec 20 23:00:56 lol.. I love Palm programmers.. their comments they use in the MojoLog are great. Dec 20 23:00:58 we dont need secure for pre to pre file transfer Dec 20 23:01:04 sure you do Dec 20 23:01:10 zsoc: whrere the F have u been? Dec 20 23:01:15 PuffTheMagic: you do that thing yet? was it this weekend? Dec 20 23:01:23 zsoc: what thing? Dec 20 23:01:37 PuffTheMagic: I told you, in a sekret gtalk msg you probably never got Dec 20 23:01:53 rwhitby: u can do ftp or fxp over ssl Dec 20 23:01:54 PuffTheMagic: that thing.. err.. multi. point... er.. presentation. for flying cars. Dec 20 23:02:09 zsoc: yeah i went and visited that school Dec 20 23:02:34 PuffTheMagic: I'm sure they were impressed :D Dec 20 23:02:46 either way.... there are like 15 protocols i would use before i used dav Dec 20 23:03:08 PuffTheMagic: ftp in unencrypted, and no browser supports sftp Dec 20 23:04:15 and every os nowadays supports dav Dec 20 23:04:17 PuffTheMagic: besides that other thing I thought I told you, I got very frustration with dsp issues, even at low bitrate AND I just recently got my device replaced so I'm getting back up to speed Dec 20 23:04:24 dav isn't supported properly in explorer Dec 20 23:04:36 smb is much better Dec 20 23:04:44 if samba is not too big Dec 20 23:05:09 tmzt: ever compared the resource usage of a lightweight webserver with samba and friends ? Dec 20 23:05:12 what is fxp again? Dec 20 23:05:19 no Dec 20 23:05:26 not personally Dec 20 23:05:57 PuffTheMagic: so now with my non-broken device I may do some more testing with stamp + low rate and faac vs palmaudioencorder, but will probably end in more frustration Dec 20 23:06:15 PuffTheMagic: I assume you haven't compiled any GST TI stuff? Dec 20 23:06:34 why am I talking about this here lol. Dec 20 23:07:47 PuffTheMagic: normal user has no idea how to do ftp or fxp over ssl Dec 20 23:08:21 tmzt: lighttpd is smaller than wircd in memory usage ... Dec 20 23:08:31 (and wircd is small already) Dec 20 23:08:46 yes, but dav isn't Dec 20 23:09:01 not secure enough version Dec 20 23:09:30 tmzt: mod_webdav is 28K code in lighttpd Dec 20 23:09:39 also, try giving a windows user instructions on how to open a web folder Dec 20 23:09:44 rw? Dec 20 23:09:46 that's over https Dec 20 23:10:19 in ie6 - file open check "open as web folder" don't forget the trailing / Dec 20 23:10:26 in ie7 - ???? Dec 20 23:10:54 compare - start run \\ip Dec 20 23:11:15 works on every windows version since 95 except broken me Dec 20 23:11:32 tmzt: no argument here, but SMB files are in cleartext over wifi - ready for sniffers. no thanks. Dec 20 23:11:48 let me get ram usage from my nsluu Dec 20 23:12:08 what? Dec 20 23:12:22 every windows user users that now, files and printing Dec 20 23:12:36 and I think that's only with encryption disabled Dec 20 23:12:49 which is only needed for win95/98 Dec 20 23:12:53 no nt based os Dec 20 23:13:18 ah, if you add encryption to the mix, you're going to get a *really* big samba install and mem footprint Dec 20 23:13:38 an always-on file access service for the Pre has to take less than 1% of memoyr Dec 20 23:13:51 (imho) Dec 20 23:15:25 1528 and 1400 Dec 20 23:15:26 tmzt: I'm not against DAV and Samba being options, as long as a secure samba installation works. No-one has answered the "how will we do authentication for write access" yet ... Dec 20 23:15:28 virt Dec 20 23:15:29 I think I'm going to write a white paper on why WEP and MAC filters are completely pointless Dec 20 23:15:42 zsoc: it's already been done many times over Dec 20 23:15:58 in vista there is write password capability anymore I think Dec 20 23:16:04 it's all per user Dec 20 23:16:10 rwhitby: maybe, but mine will be the most sarcastic. Dec 20 23:16:53 sniff get mac set mac get access Dec 20 23:17:04 DarkSpecter: what do you think we should do for out-of-the-box DAV authentication? We can't have anonymous write enabled for the default config. Dec 20 23:17:20 same question for samba Dec 20 23:18:48 display password on screen with an app? Dec 20 23:19:14 require login with local account? Dec 20 23:19:27 no local accounts have passwords Dec 20 23:19:29 does cifs have connection security at all? Dec 20 23:19:35 not unix account Dec 20 23:19:39 samba account Dec 20 23:19:46 not related Dec 20 23:19:50 how to set it? Dec 20 23:19:59 old way edit smbpasswd Dec 20 23:20:02 and convert Dec 20 23:20:09 new way ndb edit Dec 20 23:20:20 my nslu is old way just saw that Dec 20 23:20:34 tmzt: I'm talking about general population here, not linux command line. Dec 20 23:20:50 uh Dec 20 23:20:57 display password on screen with an app? Dec 20 23:21:10 generate each connection unless configured otherwise Dec 20 23:21:27 actually, setting a random password, and then displaying it on screen for access is not a bad idea ... Dec 20 23:21:33 use a simple module in samba for that fake pam or whatever Dec 20 23:21:37 read-only, so rogue apps can't change it Dec 20 23:22:11 simple, reads from a socket to get the password, samba reads from the same socket with a lib Dec 20 23:22:17 socket/pipe Dec 20 23:22:42 socket, uh af unix Dec 20 23:23:49 hmm - no way to retrieve the password later though, without storing it somewhere unencypted. Dec 20 23:25:18 so the question is how to set a password (without storing it unencypted on the disk), such that samba or ssh can use it, and it can be displayed to the user on the screen but not be available to rogue webos apps. Dec 20 23:26:10 rwhitby: i've been thinking about that but the only idea i had so far would require writing a new service that works like zenity, which would allow us to call it from post-install in a ipkg to ask for a username and password to generate a .htdigest Dec 20 23:26:18 and allow the user to hit a button to generate a new random password Dec 20 23:26:49 DarkSpecter: yeah, I've been thinking for a while that we need something like zenity or dialog Dec 20 23:27:14 rwhitby: can apps have local db stores that other rogue webos apps cannot read in the html/js space ? Dec 20 23:27:25 using the same security model as the confirmation screens in ipkgservice Dec 20 23:27:54 bpadalino: Internalz's File Manager Service allows reading just about anything by a rogue app Dec 20 23:32:02 rwhitby: https + user/pass should be enough security for most casual users and a lot easier to implement in post-inst, no idea if the client cert aproach would be doable that way Dec 20 23:32:29 rwhitby: use a captcha? Dec 20 23:45:15 ok, we need a zenity port to webOS Dec 20 23:46:08 rwhitby: a normal user knows how to put a address in a web browsers, if they can do that for webdav (ssl or not) they can do it for ftp... its the same thing Dec 20 23:46:44 PuffTheMagic: can you do secure non-cleartext-over-the-wire ftp transfers from a browser? Dec 20 23:47:35 idk.... but why do we need security to transfer wallpapers and ringtones? Dec 20 23:48:45 there might be ppl out there that have more than just wallpapers and ringtones in /media/internal Dec 20 23:49:01 PuffTheMagic: so you have no need for sensitive files on your Pre? ok, no need for you to be part of the conversation about how to achieve transfer of such sensitive files then Dec 20 23:49:23 i thought we were talking about AM? Dec 20 23:49:40 and just maybe you dont want those nude photos of your girlfriend to be accesible by everyone ;) Dec 20 23:49:41 is she gonna store her credit card info on her phone and send it to other people? Dec 20 23:49:41 Yes. AM has lots of sensitive stuff on their Pre that they want to transfer. Dec 20 23:49:57 rwhitby: ohh all those bedroom camera shots Dec 20 23:50:00 AM's browser cache is going to have her bank records on it Dec 20 23:50:01 cant wait to steal those Dec 20 23:50:14 AM dont do banking on her phone Dec 20 23:50:31 rwhitby: im not saying run a open ftp server on the phone Dec 20 23:50:37 PuffTheMagic: if you want to push a non-secure agenda, feel free. I won't subscribe to it. Dec 20 23:50:41 but with fxp u can push files Dec 20 23:50:50 u dont need to open the device to browse files Dec 20 23:50:55 only accept incomming files Dec 20 23:51:17 there is no access to browser cache here Dec 20 23:51:44 sigh - it's so difficult to have a sensible conversation with you about what the other 95% of the population does ... Dec 20 23:51:59 what has fxp to do with it, fxp is just server to server ftp Dec 20 23:52:05 * DarkSpecter is confused Dec 20 23:52:19 rwhitby: do you know lclarkjr? Dec 20 23:52:23 yeah but with fxp i can essentially "push" files out Dec 20 23:52:37 instead of leaving a path open and require others to connect to it Dec 20 23:52:42 it would sorta like OBEX Dec 20 23:52:54 dBsooner: I know the name, not the person. Dec 20 23:53:01 yeah, I can't find him either. Dec 20 23:53:06 no name like that on pc.net Dec 20 23:55:20 DarkSpecter: I like your zenity idea - we should run with that. Dec 20 23:55:25 * rwhitby bbl Dec 20 23:55:47