**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Dec 26 02:59:56 2009 Dec 26 03:02:29 heya Dec 26 03:02:33 Merry Christmas Dec 26 03:03:03 Happy Hanukkah Dec 26 03:03:32 Happy Kwanzaa Dec 26 03:07:58 re Dec 26 03:13:39 re rwhitby Dec 26 04:13:15 hi all Dec 26 04:14:24 hey Dec 26 04:23:20 Where are url links saved that are in the form of a app icon in the Launcher? Dec 26 12:21:58 * rwhitby is porting openvpn to the Pre Dec 26 12:34:59 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/OpenVPN_for_Palm_Pre Dec 26 12:37:52 yep, that uses the package that I ported Dec 26 12:38:44 but I'm going to add http://www.bisente.com/proyectos/easy-rsa-subjectaltname/ and then look at using http://gitorious.org/pre-openvpn as a front-end Dec 26 12:38:54 and it's all going into Preware Dec 26 12:43:26 sup rwhitby Dec 26 12:44:36 mobgod: g'day Dec 26 12:44:54 mobgod: do you need some shipping details? Dec 26 12:46:21 yea u can email me later on just woke up need to get some food put away Dec 26 12:46:41 just wanted to let u no i'm back Dec 26 12:47:16 anyone have word on .13.5 Dec 26 12:47:19 ack Dec 26 12:47:22 1.3.5 Dec 26 12:49:00 mobgod: no word. I doubt they would release when everyone is on holidays. My guess is CES (7 Jan). Dec 26 12:49:26 mobgod: email with shipping address sent Dec 26 12:50:10 ok rwhitby if i have any ?s i will email or contact here Dec 26 12:50:13 pm for a sec Dec 26 18:03:26 rwhitby: ping Dec 26 19:12:24 hello. happy holidays. just wanted to ask if anybody knows why the agenda app consumes so much memory. its using almost as much as my launcher. I would say that the app continuously polls for calendar updates but it shows no handles. anyway if anyone has an idea I'd love to hear it. Dec 26 19:14:05 hi Dec 26 19:15:10 do you know how i can play flac on my pre? Dec 26 19:22:38 u cant afaik Dec 26 19:33:56 would that not just be a new gstreamer plugin? Dec 26 19:39:32 You can do it from the command line. Dec 26 19:39:54 But using an app it's impossible afaik. Dec 26 19:40:00 Well, not impossible. Dec 26 19:40:11 It's just nobody has done it yet. Dec 26 19:46:28 ok, thanks for the information. Is there any work done in this direction? I read that Andrew James got something working, but that the player refuses to play ogg files. Dec 26 19:48:14 will the app show on preware? Dec 26 19:48:37 Someone would have to write a custom service to deal with playing the files. Dec 26 21:24:42 PuffTheMagic: pong Dec 26 21:25:11 rwhitby: you familiar with swig? Dec 26 21:25:25 yep Dec 26 21:27:01 rwhitby: well i just learned about it Dec 26 21:27:12 make a interface file for liblunaservice Dec 26 21:27:23 so we have bindings for free Dec 26 21:27:40 yep, that'd work Dec 26 21:27:48 i was hoping we could get python and a lisp preware now Dec 26 21:28:07 swig 1.3.39 is in optware, BTW. Dec 26 21:43:11 PuffTheMagic: are you a CLer? Dec 26 21:43:59 ivanst: i soon will be Dec 26 21:45:41 PuffTheMagic: welcome to the herd :-) Dec 26 21:52:50 sigh. why did palm not use standard group ids? Dec 26 21:53:11 they have uucp where wheel should be Dec 26 21:53:38 noe I have to actually thing about where to put wheel Dec 26 21:53:54 s/thing/think/ Dec 26 21:53:54 jacques_pre meant: noe I have to actually think about where to put wheel Dec 26 21:54:04 jacques_pre: you use openvpn for anything? Dec 26 21:54:50 rwhitby: I wish I did, but nope. Dec 26 21:55:11 stupid VPN at work is not compatible Dec 26 21:56:12 hey, while we're swig'ing, let's get somw lua action going :-D Dec 26 21:59:05 I see domain names are used in app ids; this means developer needs to own a domain name? Dec 26 21:59:42 is this used for some sort of trust authentication? Dec 26 22:07:02 jacques_pre: convention only Dec 26 22:07:08 just like Java Dec 26 22:07:27 jacques_pre: but we (preware) are going to be signing install scripts based on it Dec 26 22:07:52 * jacques_pre wouldn't know about java. Dec 26 22:08:58 rwhitby: is the signing feature written up anywhere? Dec 26 22:09:31 jacques_pre: yep. application signing wiki page Dec 26 22:10:10 * jacques_pre goes to read it. Dec 26 22:13:26 what about trusted feeds? Dec 26 22:16:26 will setting wirc to prefer 3g connection cause it to not use wifi at all? Dec 26 22:17:09 because on wifi it has problems when the screen blanks Dec 26 22:18:49 greetings all Dec 26 22:28:44 jacques_pre: you need the NoDoze homebrew app Dec 26 22:29:21 or my future 'keep-Pre-awake-when-ssh-is-connected' patch ... Dec 26 22:30:21 rwhitby: I have that but when not charging, I just want wirc to use ppp even if wifi is connected Dec 26 22:31:21 nodoze is great for when ssh'd in over wifi, but the battery does deplete noticeably faster Dec 26 23:03:46 why does the rootfs_open script reboot after setting root readonly? Dec 26 23:19:41 has anyone used the optware elinks? it only segfaults for me. Dec 26 23:20:52 jacques_pre: 1) dunno, 2) haven't used it Dec 26 23:27:35 has anyone come up with more info on the proximity sensor? Dec 26 23:27:45 like how to access it and monitor its state Dec 26 23:27:50 hmmm Dec 26 23:28:00 weechat is having rendering issues Dec 26 23:28:15 at least over novacom Dec 26 23:28:20 wouldn't it be awesome to have apps that let you do a "Jedi like" hand motion over your phone to make it do stuff? Dec 26 23:28:42 jacques3: novacom has issues period :) Dec 26 23:29:06 I'll have to try it over ssh Dec 26 23:31:23 irritum: you can do that with the proximity sensor Dec 26 23:31:43 yes my point exactly Dec 26 23:31:46 look in the crotest application to see how to drive it Dec 26 23:31:50 except I can't find much info on it at all Dec 26 23:31:59 k thanks for the hint Dec 26 23:32:13 or in the telephone app, but the crotest is easier to find Dec 26 23:32:48 crotest service is the lowest level access I've found so far Dec 26 23:34:12 setting my TERM var correctly gave me colors, but still the same rendering issues Dec 26 23:34:26 part of the screen is not clearing Dec 26 23:34:44 it might be a ncurses issue Dec 26 23:36:37 testing 1 2 3 Dec 26 23:36:59 * jacques3 goes to learn how to actually use weechat. Dec 26 23:41:44 sweet, openvpn seems to be working nicely on the Pre Dec 26 23:42:33 nice. Dec 26 23:43:10 just used passphrase-protected client cert to connect to a remote server Dec 26 23:43:20 DNS needs some work, but the routes seem to be ther Dec 26 23:46:56 A loud squealing sound emanating internally from a laptop is probably very bad. Dec 26 23:47:09 hmm - Pre web browser doesn't seem to grok client ssl certs Dec 26 23:48:41 Is it possible to get latitude working for locationing purposes with the hack? Or just as a client login to view locations? Dec 26 23:52:10 hmm - openvpn support is not going to as useful as I thought without browser client ssl support ... Dec 26 23:52:47 I need some sort of physical locater for my phone. I can ping it via wifi/ssh but I can't actually _find_ it. Dec 26 23:53:33 hmmm, same version of weechat on my desktop does not have the rendering issue Dec 26 23:53:54 jacques3: are you using SSH or novacom? Dec 26 23:54:09 novacom Dec 26 23:54:12 AFAIK novacom just has issues in general with term emulation Dec 26 23:54:28 irritum: OK that could be it then. Dec 26 23:54:44 I'll try ssh later. Dec 26 23:54:51 i mean simple pagination sometimes breaks on it Dec 26 23:55:38 there is an alternative serial console isn't there? Dec 26 23:55:48 there is? Dec 26 23:55:55 I was wondering about that earlier Dec 26 23:56:20 if I remember correctly there was something homebrew Dec 26 23:56:59 did it use the USB connector? Dec 26 23:59:14 looks like PreBrew installer has a console option - but I'm not sure if it uses its own code / method or just calls the novacom binary Dec 27 00:00:04 anyone know of a web proxy client that will present a client ssl certificate when requested, but otherwise pass traffic through? Dec 27 00:00:05 I don't see why one couldn't enable a getty on a USB tty, perhaps that conflicts with novacom somehow? Dec 27 00:02:16 hmm - can the Pre web browser even support a http proxy? Dec 27 00:03:35 I would hope so. :-\ Dec 27 00:04:11 doesn't look like it. I might have to use squid and iptables on the device to set up an on-board transparent proxy which inserts ssl client certificate data ... Dec 27 00:05:06 testing Dec 27 00:05:13 * rwhitby bbl Dec 27 00:05:41 hmm my previous comment simply never shoed up Dec 27 00:07:43 jacques3: since you have your phone connected over USB why not just use SSH through RNDIS networking? Dec 27 00:08:15 you shouldn't keep your device in dev mode anyway - there is really no reason to after the inital root-ing procedure Dec 27 00:08:38 is there any reason not to? Dec 27 00:09:12 is RNDIS networking the same as usbnet? Dec 27 00:09:17 yes Dec 27 00:10:05 yes, I will start using usbnet as soon as I get it all setup. I have to build some additional kernel modules for my desktop machine, etc. Dec 27 00:10:10 you can either enable DHCP daemon on your phone by hand or install "MyTether" and enable it from their GUI Dec 27 00:10:56 oh - I didn't realize you have a Linux desktop too... my primary box is Winbloze - I do have some *nix boxen though around as well Dec 27 00:11:39 irritum: I was serious when asking about downsides of devel mode. I have been trying to understand all its implications. Dec 27 00:12:05 as far as I know it's console access and read-write mounted / Dec 27 00:12:33 or not even the latter Dec 27 00:12:33 AFAICT it just sets the usb gadget interface in a mode which novacomd understands Dec 27 00:12:33 but there may be more to it that we don't know :) Dec 27 00:12:34 dev mode does not imply any additional rw access Dec 27 00:12:55 yah you're right... you still have to remount with rw by hand Dec 27 00:13:00 and anyone with physical access to my phone could put it in dev mode themselves Dec 27 00:13:07 so really no implications that we know of :) Dec 27 00:13:46 mine seems to reset to "normal" after a reboot anyway Dec 27 00:26:15 jacques3: I leave dev mode on from well before flashing, and never turn it off Dec 27 00:26:22 jacques3: there is no downside I can see Dec 27 00:28:20 I hear its bad to leave it on Dec 27 00:28:22 2009-11-08: Stunnel-4.28 released - Transparent proxy for later Linux kernels Dec 27 00:28:28 nfoxTc: where do you hear that? Dec 27 00:28:40 leaves you vulnerable it someways Dec 27 00:28:53 lemme get the link Dec 27 00:29:14 nfoxTc: please do, cause it's completely wrong and the spread of misinformation should be stopped Dec 27 00:29:35 http://forums.precentral.net/ Dec 27 00:29:55 check in there alot of people say it leaves your phone open for exploitation Dec 27 00:32:06 alot Dec 27 00:32:11 a lot Dec 27 00:32:19 a lot Dec 27 00:32:23 See what I did there? Dec 27 00:33:49 huh Dec 27 00:34:44 I had a 7th grade english teacher that would whip me if I ever wrote "alot" Dec 27 00:35:04 oh who cares man its just a irc channel Dec 27 00:35:34 * zsoc cares :( Dec 27 00:35:47 thats one person lol Dec 27 00:36:00 * zsoc sits in the corner Dec 27 00:36:05 just here to learn about webos...not english Dec 27 00:37:04 nfoxTc: you'll need to be a bit more specific with your link. I already read the PreCentral.net forums. Please link a specific forum thread. Dec 27 00:37:24 ill see if I can find one...one sec Dec 27 00:37:26 rwhitby: but alot of people say it :D Dec 27 00:39:58 http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/215919-dev-mode.html Dec 27 00:40:03 the facts are that enabling developer mode inserts a kernel module for usb communication (i.e. not exploitable unless you have physical access to the device to plug in the USB cable) and enabled novacomd ports for the loopback address only Dec 27 00:40:49 nfoxTc: nobody in that thread is a developer with knowledge of what dev mode actually does. Dec 27 00:40:56 just telling you what I had seen on the forums Dec 27 00:41:08 no need to get upset with me Dec 27 00:41:39 actually...I think i recognize your handle from the webos wiki Dec 27 00:41:40 are you a dev? Dec 27 00:42:32 nfoxTc: I founded webos-internals.org and preware.org Dec 27 00:42:50 nfoxTc: and I'm not getting upset with you, just telling you the facts. Dec 27 00:43:06 (I've added a post to that thread too) Dec 27 00:43:22 wow...must say I appreciate all the work you have done Dec 27 00:44:03 jacques3: Looks like delegate.org might be interesting for an SSL proxy Dec 27 00:46:24 how long have you been programming for rwhitby? Dec 27 00:46:40 nfoxTc: I'm 42. Dec 27 00:47:11 so well over 25 years. Dec 27 00:47:53 wow, so you started in the punchcard days huh Dec 27 00:48:29 is back from a shower Dec 27 00:48:59 well if a lot of people say it, it must be true... no wait... Dec 27 00:50:11 heh, punchcard is a bit farther back Dec 27 00:50:45 well maybe some ppl were still using them in the mid-80's Dec 27 00:52:53 wow, delegate.org _does_ look interesting Dec 27 00:55:40 jacques3: I think delegate might be the next addition to optware Dec 27 00:59:46 what is it used for? Dec 27 00:59:50 rwhitby: thanks for the hint - I found a set of functions to control the IR proximity sensor Dec 27 01:00:09 irritum: nice Dec 27 01:00:14 irritum: excellent - are you going to add a wiki page on it to webos-internals.org ? Dec 27 01:00:33 (that's the best way to show your appreciation for the hint) Dec 27 01:01:00 now what I'm gonna try is hack the stock Clock app to accept input from proximity sensor as "dismiss" or "snooze" action Dec 27 01:01:12 rwhitby: I can add a page once I test what I found Dec 27 01:01:44 irritum: I'll look forward to reading it in my RSS feed of new wiki pages :-) Dec 27 01:01:47 or I can put a stub in there for now with just cut & paste of some code from crotest that's relevant Dec 27 01:02:17 I've always found putting in a stub with raw information is a good way to go, then someone else can come past and clean it up ;-) Dec 27 01:02:44 put best not to cut and paste significant chunks of Palm code Dec 27 01:02:49 s/put/but/ Dec 27 01:02:50 rwhitby meant: but best not to cut and paste significant chunks of Palm code Dec 27 01:02:51 irritum: thatd be pretty cool, something like waving your hand over your phone to shut the alarm off? Dec 27 01:03:05 * irritum envisions himself soon shutting off his morning alarms with a Yoda-like gesture while saying "Wake up me you don't!" Dec 27 01:03:21 lol Dec 27 01:03:35 wake or don't wake, there is no snooze ... Dec 27 01:04:19 rwhitby: I could've sworn there is a second button that says snooze Dec 27 01:04:20
Snooze
Dec 27 01:04:36 irritum: that was my Yoda impersonation ... Dec 27 01:04:40 oh :) Dec 27 01:04:43 sorry :) Dec 27 01:05:16 hey rwhitby would C be a good background for playing around with webos? Dec 27 01:05:37 another cool thing one could do with that sensor is write an app that would be a basic proximity alarm Dec 27 01:05:55 like if someon tries to grab the phone off your desk it can say "Stop! Don't touch that phone!" Dec 27 01:06:42 nfoxTc: yes - and some JavaScript experience would be good on top of that Dec 27 01:07:17 IMHO C is a good bacground for almost any programming environment regardless whether it actually requires writing code in C or something else Dec 27 01:07:44 Hmm guess im on the right track then ;) Dec 27 01:08:36 jacques3: delegated -P53 SERVER=dns RESOLV="dns:192.168.1.123:*.localdomain,dns:192.168.1.1" Dec 27 01:08:52 switch dns servers based on query Dec 27 01:09:09 that may fix my openvpn dns problem ... Dec 27 01:09:17 rwhitby: whoa - cool like split DNS on dmand - awesome for VPN-ing! Dec 27 01:09:42 lots of good stuff on http://www.delegate.org/delegate/HowToDG.html Dec 27 01:11:48 rwhitby: what namespace should the article go into on the Wiki? Dec 27 01:12:05 should I just update the "hardware" article about the sensor? Dec 27 01:12:10 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Research Dec 27 01:12:14 somewhere off there Dec 27 01:12:17 k Dec 27 01:19:13 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Proximity_Sensor Dec 27 01:19:40 just that for now - that way it will be a nagging reminder for me to update :) Dec 27 01:19:55 irritum: thx Dec 27 01:20:15 np - glad to be a small part of your project :) Dec 27 01:20:37 our project ;-) Dec 27 01:21:24 * jacques3 is back with sandwiches. Dec 27 01:22:35 I'm surprised nobody has made a mod which switches cards with the accelerometer Dec 27 01:23:21 and I think the quote would be "wake or wake not; there is no snooze" ;-P Dec 27 01:23:35 jacques3: there is alot of relatively "obvious" or "we should really have that" type of stuff that hasn't been done yet though we have a knowlege of how to accomplish it Dec 27 01:23:45 device and OS is still relatively young Dec 27 01:24:23 it's been out for six whole months already :-D Dec 27 01:24:27 jacques3: I stand corrected ;-) Dec 27 01:24:46 my impression is actually almost the opposite - like instead of thinking "dang - there is so much cool stuff we don't have yet" - I tend to think like "Wow - it's been less than a year on the market and we already have so much cool stuff!!!" Dec 27 01:24:48 * rwhitby starts on delegate.mk for optware ... Dec 27 01:25:33 jacques3: yeah, my time has been spent laying a solid foundation for the interesting stuff, rather than doing the interesting stuff itself ... Dec 27 01:27:00 rwhitby: hmm, comprehensive app distribution methodology or switch cards when I shake my pre... I dunno that's a touch one Dec 27 01:27:01 * irritum wonders how to test proximity sensor action on the emulator... Dec 27 01:27:15 s/touch/tough/ Dec 27 01:27:16 jacques3 meant: rwhitby: hmm, comprehensive app distribution methodology or switch cards when I shake my pre... I dunno that's a tough one Dec 27 01:27:17 irritum: thats how i look at it Dec 27 01:27:30 hmm - delegate builds it's own mkmake.exe to do the building. this is not going to be a trivial cross-compilation Dec 27 01:27:46 rwhitby: what r u building? Dec 27 01:27:46 argh. Dec 27 01:27:53 PuffTheMagic: delegate.org Dec 27 01:28:06 I imagine a simple "mouse-over" should generate proximity sensor events Dec 27 01:28:11 rwhitby: what's its arch support? will we have alignment issues? Dec 27 01:28:23 jacques3: seems to have kurobox support Dec 27 01:28:33 rwhitby: what the purpose of that Dec 27 01:28:51 website says what it is/can do Dec 27 01:28:54 PuffTheMagic: VPN-ing mostly Dec 27 01:28:57 but not why i would use it Dec 27 01:29:16 kurobox is BE 32-bit PPC Dec 27 01:29:47 PuffTheMagic: I personally am trying to get the Pre to access an openssl client-certificate protected https site over passphrase-protected x509 client certificate openvpn connection. Dec 27 01:30:20 the connection is up, but the Pre browser does not handle client certs, so I need a proxy which does Dec 27 01:30:23 that sounds a bit like a perl build Dec 27 01:30:36 rwhitby: is sbcl in optware? Dec 27 01:30:50 obviously you just need to build it natively :-) Dec 27 01:30:55 http://www.revogear.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=KURO-BOX%2FPRO - is ARM Dec 27 01:31:00 PuffTheMagic: http://trac.nslu2-linux.org/optware/browser/trunk/make Dec 27 01:31:32 that must be a new kurobox Dec 27 01:32:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurobox Dec 27 01:32:22 I dealt with the PPC ones Dec 27 01:33:11 I wonder which kurobox/es delegate supports Dec 27 01:33:30 rwhitby: damn... so i have to make a wircd like package for sbcl Dec 27 01:33:32 and build it my self Dec 27 01:33:33 jacques3: "9.6.1 fixes for Solaris, Arm-linux, ..." Dec 27 01:33:49 ok good Dec 27 01:33:59 I wonder how they do the arm builds Dec 27 01:34:33 rwhitby: why not just use lynx / links / w3m from the shell on the Pre to get to your SSL protected web page? :) (joking of course...) Dec 27 01:35:06 I wonder why they use that strange build method Dec 27 01:35:13 jacques3: -DDEFCC=\"$(CC)\" Dec 27 01:35:40 hmm... are they cross-compiling? Dec 27 01:36:24 maybe it's smart enough to build the mkmake.exe native executable and then cross-build the rest... Dec 27 01:36:52 ok, it built fine native on ubuntu karmic Dec 27 01:38:53 jacques3: http://www.delegate.org/mail-lists/delegate-en/2621 Dec 27 01:40:21 looks like a standard build the host tool, stage it, then build the target binary using it Dec 27 01:40:49 but will look at this later. time to take the kids to the pool now Dec 27 01:41:02 * rwhitby bbl Dec 27 01:41:50 interesting Dec 27 01:42:14 hmm... crap looks like the emulator won't generate proximity sensor events :( Dec 27 01:51:43 rwhitby: what's the license of delegate? all I can find so far is http://delegate.org/delegate/license/ Dec 27 01:53:56 http://delegate.org/mail-lists/delegate-en/2449 Dec 27 02:09:33 is there currently a way to send email from the command line on a Pre? Dec 27 02:10:57 telnet to your favorite SMTP server :) Dec 27 02:20:21 ugh, why is this so complicated Dec 27 02:21:08 ~seen chuq Dec 27 02:25:35 i haven't seen 'chuq', zsoc Dec 27 02:26:27 infobot: well look harder Dec 27 02:26:56 maybe he had a memory wipe Dec 27 02:27:41 Nah, I was just curious if it understood nicknames/abbreviations :> Dec 27 02:32:42 Templarian: props on the NoScript compatible stuff with the site, very refreshing compared to the normal experience with most sites. Dec 27 02:34:38 * jacques3 loves NoScript. Dec 27 02:36:52 rwhitby: were you able to actully download delegate? I keep getting errors. Dec 27 02:38:32 OK I found a link that works Dec 27 02:47:55 * jacques3 goes to optware.org and quickly realizes he's in the wrong place. Dec 27 02:49:01 * irritum realizes it's probably not a good idea to be hacking around with a live phone after taking cough syrup with codeine... Dec 27 02:52:41 PuffTheMagic: ping **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Dec 27 02:59:56 2009