**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 07 02:59:56 2010 Jan 07 02:59:57 i love how well moonlight works Jan 07 03:00:23 this is actually the first time I've used wirc here. I do use it regularly on other channels though Jan 07 03:00:44 zsoc: what's a dapple? it sounds tasty Jan 07 03:00:51 they are Jan 07 03:00:52 zsoc: is there anything on palm opensource that uses sdl Jan 07 03:00:53 PuffTheMagic, from SDL_video.h Jan 07 03:00:59 or did they just add it for shits and giggles Jan 07 03:01:04 egaudet: which version? Jan 07 03:01:09 the palm version Jan 07 03:01:11 .dict dapple Jan 07 03:01:11 from opensource palm Jan 07 03:01:11 PuffTheMagic: what do you mean "uses" it? Jan 07 03:01:16 with the patch Jan 07 03:01:24 egaudet: ahh :D Jan 07 03:01:39 matter of fact it is IN the patch Jan 07 03:01:42 should have thought about that Jan 07 03:01:53 (for all those interested in CES join #webos-watercooler. That is all) Jan 07 03:02:03 yes the patch includes patched headers... Jan 07 03:07:25 rwhitby: what sort of linking problem did you have with sdlmame ? Jan 07 03:09:04 webos-watercooler is almost as bad as precentral forums Jan 07 03:10:20 wow, 3 hours for a nornally 1 hr drive Jan 07 03:10:32 sucks Jan 07 03:13:39 anything interesting going on? Jan 07 03:14:36 nothing Jan 07 03:14:37 I heard that zsoc Jan 07 03:14:39 :P Jan 07 03:14:56 So it's looking more amd more like the Unreal engine will actually be coming to WebOS. Ballmer just mentioned the Zune HD in the keynote and said absolutely nothing about its apps. Jan 07 03:15:22 jacques: sdl_num_processors Jan 07 03:15:45 what do you mean puff re shits and giggles? Jan 07 03:16:06 rwhitby: OK but you got past that Jan 07 03:16:11 they ship the lib so they have to ship code Jan 07 03:16:27 I think I see what you saw: Unexpected option gl_lib queried sdlvideo_init: Initialization failed! Jan 07 03:16:33 they ship the lib for game support including need for speed Jan 07 03:16:37 jacques: yep Jan 07 03:19:04 jacques: what ya building? Jan 07 03:19:21 mame ? Jan 07 03:19:33 destinal-pre: the sdlmame rwhitby put in cross-compile/nonworking Jan 07 03:20:10 nonwrk could become a large dir soon :) Jan 07 03:20:44 i am sure it will get huge Jan 07 03:21:33 I should add dosbox :) Jan 07 03:21:40 but I am in a bar Jan 07 03:21:45 destinal-pre: please do Jan 07 03:21:50 why are you on your phone ? Jan 07 03:22:27 because wirc is awesome :) Jan 07 03:22:30 because I'm sitting by myself, just here for food and the brewpub's fine ale Jan 07 03:22:41 and because wirc is awesome Jan 07 03:22:47 :) Jan 07 03:22:58 oil: i'm going to put wirc down even tho i like it because you did the mojo :P Jan 07 03:23:10 okay, my show download counts patch is busted...when I try to remove it via webosqi I get an error when attempting to remove it....mentions 'unreversed patch detected' Jan 07 03:23:59 what's the next thing to do? Jan 07 03:24:28 sugardave: did u update and not remove Jan 07 03:24:28 ? Jan 07 03:25:09 no, I removed, updated to 1.3.5, had a bunch of package manager problems, resolved it got things working, then updated to 1.3.5.1 package manager busted again, etc. Jan 07 03:25:12 dammit Jan 07 03:25:20 I didn't EPR before the stupid 1.3.5.1 update Jan 07 03:25:33 yupu yupu Jan 07 03:25:35 i knew it Jan 07 03:25:39 sugardave: 1351 didn't do anything Jan 07 03:25:42 sugardave: or affect anything Jan 07 03:25:46 okay Jan 07 03:25:53 so what should I start looking for? Jan 07 03:26:17 sugardave: what's wrong with ipkgservice and what versions is it? Jan 07 03:26:27 zsoc: that part is fixed Jan 07 03:26:34 ok... Jan 07 03:26:38 zsoc: I have preware working, etc. Jan 07 03:26:47 my show app downloads patch isn't working, though Jan 07 03:26:53 so, I tried to remove it so I could reinstall Jan 07 03:26:58 but uninstall is failing Jan 07 03:27:06 sugardave: ipkg log? Jan 07 03:27:17 yeah, let me see about trying to get it off there Jan 07 03:27:28 complains about 'unreversed patch detected' Jan 07 03:29:27 any guesses on the lifespan of the LED flash on the Pre? Jan 07 03:29:41 over 10k hours ? Jan 07 03:29:55 MEPolite: idontknowutursayin Jan 07 03:30:17 hrm, can't connect via wifi anymore Jan 07 03:30:22 wth? Jan 07 03:30:46 zsoc: will revisit this when I have more time and can actually get to the filesystem :S Jan 07 03:30:59 sugardave: that's it, you broke it Jan 07 03:31:00 sugardave: ut oh Jan 07 03:31:05 sugardave: kk, sorry Jan 07 03:31:06 sugardave: doctor it is Jan 07 03:31:09 suck Jan 07 03:31:23 at least the doctor keeps the usb portion in tack now Jan 07 03:31:24 :-) Jan 07 03:31:33 i have no problems with my webos device, lol Jan 07 03:31:34 yeah, noticed that after I backed everything up :D Jan 07 03:31:40 and harness? Jan 07 03:31:42 heheheheh Jan 07 03:31:45 zsoc: same here Jan 07 03:31:51 but i ubuntu is killing me Jan 07 03:32:20 atlanta: you're having a virtualbox issue methinks Jan 07 03:32:30 yea i believe so Jan 07 03:32:33 it blinks at times Jan 07 03:32:42 maybe windows virtual pc Jan 07 03:32:45 will work better for me Jan 07 03:33:01 atlanta: just grab vmware player and vmxbuilder Jan 07 03:33:53 destinal-pre: THANKS is it free now Jan 07 03:33:54 ? Jan 07 03:34:03 whoa wirc woo Jan 07 03:34:12 FrozenBinary: lol, livin' on the wild side now? Jan 07 03:34:14 player is always free Jan 07 03:34:25 I like the use of the new card for each room Jan 07 03:34:34 destinal-pre: gotcha Jan 07 03:34:42 and vmx builder adds what you need to make things player will run Jan 07 03:34:45 easy Jan 07 03:35:04 how much battery does wirc suck up? Jan 07 03:35:12 in ur experience Jan 07 03:35:16 not much Jan 07 03:35:42 do I have to leave the other wirc cards open Jan 07 03:36:02 si Jan 07 03:36:20 oh well could be worse Jan 07 03:36:30 I should get a netbook so I can build code in bar Jan 07 03:36:48 soo tetris and space invaders don't start what service am I missing Jan 07 03:36:58 the upstart i believe Jan 07 03:37:04 preware Jan 07 03:37:10 should have install it as a depend i believe Jan 07 03:38:53 rwhitby: I wonder about wisdom of leaving the old upstart method at least until we need to do splash Jan 07 03:39:29 FrozenBinary|mob: did you use Preware to install? Jan 07 03:40:36 destinal-pre: what bar? we could chill lol Jan 07 03:40:44 yea i did Jan 07 03:41:04 zsoc: rock bottom downtown denver Jan 07 03:41:15 i get the "starting" notification on the bottom of the screen, then it sits at the launch , and then nothing Jan 07 03:42:37 destinal-pre: actually these games have been a great way of making sure that people have preware installed properly Jan 07 03:42:47 heh ok Jan 07 03:43:27 destinal-pre: ah, don't think i'll make it out that way anytime soon :/ Jan 07 03:43:42 zsoc: where do you live? Jan 07 03:44:09 destinal-pre: new england Jan 07 03:44:22 ah yeah a bit of a jog Jan 07 03:44:26 lol Jan 07 03:45:53 destinal-pre: thanks Jan 07 03:45:55 i got it working Jan 07 03:46:38 so i have Upstart installed Jan 07 03:46:43 they still dont boot Jan 07 03:47:10 FrozenBinary: urdoinitrong Jan 07 03:47:11 FrozenBinary: any errors Jan 07 03:47:11 ? Jan 07 03:47:19 nope no errors Jan 07 03:47:22 what happend Jan 07 03:47:22 ? Jan 07 03:47:29 black card Jan 07 03:47:30 ? Jan 07 03:47:55 nope , it gives a quick notification on the bottom Jan 07 03:47:59 to quick to read Jan 07 03:48:01 then it doesnt open Jan 07 03:48:06 oh then u did it wrong Jan 07 03:48:08 like zsoc said Jan 07 03:48:15 i think it says "such and such starting" Jan 07 03:48:19 what viersion u have Jan 07 03:48:19 FrozenBinary: try starting from terminal Jan 07 03:48:20 of webos Jan 07 03:48:20 ? Jan 07 03:48:28 1.3.5 Jan 07 03:48:35 FrozenBinary: wait, do you have a pixi? :P Jan 07 03:48:39 no Jan 07 03:48:46 lol Jan 07 03:48:46 lol Jan 07 03:48:46 FrozenBinary: lsmod | grep -i pvr Jan 07 03:48:47 ? Jan 07 03:49:02 atlanta: awesome Jan 07 03:49:12 * atlanta got his ubuntu to install corretly Jan 07 03:49:14 vmware player do the trick? Jan 07 03:49:20 yea Jan 07 03:49:34 i just used it to read the vm i had created of ubuntu Jan 07 03:49:39 gonna update Vbox in a min Jan 07 03:49:42 i believe thats the issue Jan 07 03:50:12 going to play with gamez tomorrow Jan 07 03:50:16 bed time Jan 07 03:50:19 there fun Jan 07 03:50:19 kk Jan 07 03:50:23 why not do it tonight Jan 07 03:50:23 lol Jan 07 03:50:32 yeah, the launcher mojo could use error checking and stuff :) Jan 07 03:50:37 the fairies and magic are coming out 2mro at ces Jan 07 03:50:40 it just calls the service, and goes away Jan 07 03:50:47 oil: is it in giy Jan 07 03:50:48 git** Jan 07 03:50:49 ? Jan 07 03:51:12 blah what kind of question was that Jan 07 03:51:16 we need more fairies before 9am Jan 07 03:51:23 hmm, so can anyone get any opengles code OTHER than doom triangle to run? Jan 07 03:51:28 after i get ahold of the keybindings tonight Jan 07 03:51:43 im going into this not even knowing what im doing Jan 07 03:51:44 all i get is a black screen, using a number of example opengles programs Jan 07 03:51:47 oh the beauty of learning Jan 07 03:52:02 dtzWill: post the code online ? Jan 07 03:52:11 dtz you need SDL gles progs Jan 07 03:52:40 destinal-pre: well - you can get away with just opening up SDL as SDL_OPENGLES and just doing the gles stuff Jan 07 03:52:45 which is what the original example does Jan 07 03:53:02 bpadalino: and then calling SDL_GL_SwapBuffers etc Jan 07 03:53:05 ah Jan 07 03:53:06 bpadalino: (right?) Jan 07 03:53:08 cool Jan 07 03:53:10 yeah Jan 07 03:53:16 * atlanta is updating ubuntu Jan 07 03:53:26 dtzWill: post your code that doesn't work online Jan 07 03:53:33 bpadalino: i can post my code in a sec, but as far as you know the code should work, right? Jan 07 03:53:41 i mean if valid opengles Jan 07 03:53:42 i have no idea about your code Jan 07 03:53:46 not like the pre just gimped about some functions Jan 07 03:53:51 bpadalino: understood, i mean in general :) Jan 07 03:53:53 gles 2.0 is way different than gles 1.1 Jan 07 03:54:08 bpadalino: but shouldn't gles 1 apps still run? bah Jan 07 03:54:12 no Jan 07 03:54:13 but you can try it DOGLESS Jan 07 03:54:16 it's totally different Jan 07 03:54:29 there is a book about GLES 2.0 which goes over this Jan 07 03:55:06 bpadalino: okay i'm sure there is plenty of documentation indicating such, i'm sorry :). i just wanted to make sure that example wasn't done in a special way to avoid pitfalls Jan 07 03:55:13 bpadalino: for example, why no spinning cube? etc Jan 07 03:55:17 bpadalino: you said even palm was going dogless, yeah? Jan 07 03:55:34 destinal-pre: it's in one of the libraries makefiles .. Jan 07 03:55:36 i forgot which one Jan 07 03:56:24 bpadalino, destinal-pre: oh they use dogless? man Jan 07 03:56:39 well, it's not included in the pre Jan 07 03:56:42 for something minor I think Jan 07 03:56:43 FrozenBinary|mob: did you wait the 20 seconds for the game to load? Jan 07 03:56:59 but it's in a linker somewhere in a makefile header Jan 07 03:57:12 dtzWill: gles 1.1 apps will not worked. they exclusively used fixed pipeline apis, we went over this :P Jan 07 03:57:42 hello all Jan 07 03:58:05 there are a dearth of good sacking songs Jan 07 03:58:07 can anyone point me in the right direction here? I'm trying to build the Cisco VPN client for webos Jan 07 03:58:20 zsoc: sorry i'm lost in my own work. you did mention that, sorry haha Jan 07 03:58:26 gameboy emulator works :D Jan 07 03:58:26 s/sacking songs/gl es 2 examples/ Jan 07 03:58:28 destinal-pre meant: there are a dearth of good gl es 2 examples Jan 07 03:58:31 but the kernel headers don't appear to be on the device Jan 07 03:58:42 destinal-pre: no there aren't :P Jan 07 03:58:56 man i need to find a project thta doesn't involve opengl/es/egl/etc Jan 07 03:58:56 lol Jan 07 03:59:08 dtzWill: no, this is exactly the project you need to be working on :P Jan 07 03:59:11 go will! Jan 07 03:59:16 dtzwill, modify the triangle of doom Jan 07 03:59:18 understand it Jan 07 03:59:18 any ideas on how to a) get the headers or b) build on another device and move to the pre Jan 07 03:59:24 freakout: go cheer on will, grab the pom-poms Jan 07 03:59:28 then extend Jan 07 03:59:31 or he cood port more FAIRIES Jan 07 03:59:42 s/oo/oul/ Jan 07 03:59:43 destinal-pre meant: or he could port more FAIRIES Jan 07 03:59:48 offroad99: headers for what? Jan 07 04:00:11 offroad99: kernel patch is on opensource.palm.com Jan 07 04:00:30 offroad99 see the wiki Jan 07 04:00:34 destinal-pre: fairies? lol Jan 07 04:00:54 zsoc: : okay Jan 07 04:01:06 we have crosscompile examples and building doom for pree on pc ubuntu Jan 07 04:01:13 * freakout-Pre puts on revealing cheerleader outfit Jan 07 04:01:15 good stuff Jan 07 04:01:39 drwill: rick needs faries to show off at CES Jan 07 04:01:49 s/farie/game/ Jan 07 04:01:49 destinal-pre meant: drwill: rick needs games to show off at CES Jan 07 04:01:54 or apps Jan 07 04:02:07 opengl demo is probably good too Jan 07 04:02:21 :( no one cares about gameboy? Jan 07 04:02:34 Puff: omg gameboy? Jan 07 04:02:36 destinal-pre: : your misuse of psudosed make me want to eat you Jan 07 04:03:02 s/eat/congratulate/ Jan 07 04:03:30 freakout-Pre: so did you have any tag-line ideas? Jan 07 04:03:34 zsoc: VisualBoyAdvance works Jan 07 04:03:44 PuffTheMagic: that's fun Jan 07 04:03:47 puff: you rock Jan 07 04:03:57 lets play some pokemon yellow Jan 07 04:04:09 rwhitby: at work, frigging ustomers keep disrupting my train of creativity Jan 07 04:04:13 destinal-pre: DO YOU WANT TO SEE MY POKEMANS?! Jan 07 04:04:37 zsoc: lol what bar are you at? Jan 07 04:04:42 what time is the palm ces presentation tomorrow? 1pm eastern ? Jan 07 04:05:06 you should probably not order another Jan 07 04:05:17 zsoc: want to add the rendering code to quake? :P :) Jan 07 04:05:36 Hey all, quick question/issue with setting up the armv7 toolchain. When I 'make stage' it errors out at libsdl-mixer and says "checking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables" Jan 07 04:05:53 dtzWill: er, you mean port a GL quake? Jan 07 04:06:05 zsoc: its only running at 1/2 speed though Jan 07 04:06:06 on a fresh ubuntu install Jan 07 04:06:14 zsoc is always drunk. And yes, GLQuake would be nice... Jan 07 04:06:26 lets see what some cflags can do Jan 07 04:06:56 zsoc: is that what you're doing? Jan 07 04:07:22 dtzWill: PuffTheMagic: Find me a GL2.0 compatible quake that only uses programmable shaders, and I'll make it work with GLES 2.0 Jan 07 04:07:26 compiler optimizaton ftw Jan 07 04:07:29 dtzWill: right now i'm drinking. I'm up to... 2/3 of a beer Jan 07 04:07:57 zsoc: look out, he's getting schwasted! Jan 07 04:07:58 zsoc: iwill have 2 beers before u are done with that Jan 07 04:08:16 PuffTheMagic: I believe that. This isn't a party night :P Jan 07 04:08:19 * destinal-pre is on #2 at brewery Jan 07 04:08:40 rwhitby: "WebOS-Internals: Beer makes it." Jan 07 04:08:51 * freakout-Pre is dreaming of the sixpack in the fridge at home Jan 07 04:08:53 puff, oil: way to go on wirc Jan 07 04:08:56 zsoc, bpadalino: i know this is stupid, but so despite the opengles 1 code using api that's implemented in openglesv2, it's explicitly not compatible? Jan 07 04:09:09 i'm sorry thta apparently i need to be beaten over the head with what the differences are Jan 07 04:09:17 making me possible remoty Jan 07 04:09:32 s/y/ely/ Jan 07 04:09:33 destinal-pre meant: making me possible remotely Jan 07 04:09:36 dtzWill: indeed .. you are required to setup the shaders in GLES2 .. like how the doom demo does Jan 07 04:09:38 if you are doing that Jan 07 04:09:45 and compiling and blah blah .. then it may be a little strange Jan 07 04:09:51 wow... using the arm cflags it builds slower Jan 07 04:09:53 err Jan 07 04:09:54 runs slower Jan 07 04:09:58 dtzWill: OPENGL ES 1.0 USES FIXED PIPELINES AND FRACTIONAL INTERGERS. OPENGL ES 2.0 USES ONLY PROGRAMMABLE SHADERS Jan 07 04:10:13 ouch Jan 07 04:10:31 dtzWill: er, sorry, more correctly, they _both_ uses fractional integers, but 1.0 uses fixed pipelines and 2.0 uses programmable shaders, both exclusively Jan 07 04:10:44 dtzWill: it's not like the regular GL line where they traded off in between Jan 07 04:10:45 zsoc has the details Jan 07 04:10:58 etx_: pastebin the log please Jan 07 04:10:58 zsoc: i understand that, i guess just from a library point of view--they named the functions the same?! lol Jan 07 04:11:00 dtzWill: caps was accident btw, sorry Jan 07 04:11:10 one sec Jan 07 04:11:21 dtzWill: what? Jan 07 04:11:22 ES 2.0 is better imo Jan 07 04:11:26 zsoc: oh okay. was going to say that 2/3 beer really must've had an effect :P Jan 07 04:11:33 Toaster89: 2.0 is 1,000 times better, and more efficient Jan 07 04:11:38 yeah Jan 07 04:11:39 ZSOC LIES, HE ALWAYS YELLS WHEN HE'S DRUNK Jan 07 04:11:43 shaders is the way to go Jan 07 04:11:50 dtzWill: look at the triangle code and try to figure out what it's doing ... then go to your example, and see what it's doing ... and try to figure out how to change them ? Jan 07 04:11:52 (and he beats his children) Jan 07 04:11:56 s/YELLS/HITS ME/ Jan 07 04:12:19 dtzWill: i don't see what you mean that they have the same library? Jan 07 04:12:50 rwhitby: you want the config.log, corrent? Jan 07 04:12:53 correct? Jan 07 04:12:58 dtzWill: fixed function apis are removed from opengles 2.0 Jan 07 04:13:03 bpadalino: thanks for the suggestion, i've been doing that, but i'll take a closer look Jan 07 04:13:08 etx_: no, pastebin of whole session from make clobber to make stage Jan 07 04:13:16 ah ok Jan 07 04:13:34 zsoc: that was my understanding. my code *compiles* and i don't mean i commented out the shit taht didn't work, but it compiles and links just fine--against the libGLESv2 impl, so why wouldn't it work? Jan 07 04:14:04 don't look at triangle of doom, you'll reverse engineer the conspiracy and it's secrets Jan 07 04:14:05 dtzWill: "I wrote this program and it compiles, but it just doesn't work?!?" .. that's kind of a silly statement, isn't it ? Jan 07 04:14:14 dtzWill: it's possible your code doesn't use any fixed point shading? Jan 07 04:14:20 rwhitby: that sounds like the /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr issue Jan 07 04:14:21 dtzWill: also, are you still using that sill wrapper? :> Jan 07 04:14:33 zsoc: the right answer is i should stfu and go learn those spec, but from a technical POV what i said i think should make it 'work' since the new (non-compatible api) you'd hope would explicitly have different api Jan 07 04:14:45 * rwhitby bbiab Jan 07 04:14:47 rwhitby: I never gave it a make clobber unless its in one of your scripts Jan 07 04:15:09 dtzWill: it's not necessarily the API . Jan 07 04:15:10 bpadalino: haha of course it is. but i'm just saying that if i don't see why they're replace the api with a newer one, but keep the same names so that the old programs just die silently. have a version identifier, have a new api, do SOMETHING. Jan 07 04:15:11 but how you use it Jan 07 04:15:12 dtzWill: what you're saying is correct, but you didn't answer me if the code was ES 1.0 to begin with or not? All those nasty Begin's and Ends... Jan 07 04:15:12 etx_: as root, "echo 4096 > /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr" and try again Jan 07 04:15:18 if you don't setup a shader .. Jan 07 04:15:23 you can invoke all the opengl you want Jan 07 04:15:31 etx_: do the echo as root, not the build Jan 07 04:15:33 but it will stall when there is no shading that has to happen Jan 07 04:15:40 so you get no output Jan 07 04:15:43 bpadalino: clearly i'm an opengl nub, sorry, thanks for explaining Jan 07 04:15:49 dtzWill: : far too much is done in the gpu for build or link problems to be te only thing to worry about Jan 07 04:15:59 bpadalino: that would explain my output, sigh Jan 07 04:16:02 dtzWill: there is a book about opengles 2.0 .. Jan 07 04:16:07 you should look for it Jan 07 04:16:08 destinal-pre: what? Jan 07 04:16:19 bpadalino: yeah i think i will, thanks Jan 07 04:16:23 http://opengles-book.com/ Jan 07 04:16:32 destinal-away: actually, the point of using gles 2.0 (besides webGL support) is to force a lot of the load on the GPU Jan 07 04:16:40 right Jan 07 04:16:44 you can try to modify those examples if you like Jan 07 04:17:07 guys my only issue is that if there's a library, that uses the same headers, is linked in the same way--but changes the way existing api work in such a way that it breaks everything that seems wrong to me Jan 07 04:17:09 dtzWill: i don't recommend using EGL tho .. as i don't think the implementation of that is full Jan 07 04:17:12 iphone 3gs stuff needs no modification but the sdk hooks Jan 07 04:17:34 zsoc, build a better 3d demo .. the triangles are lame Jan 07 04:17:35 :( Jan 07 04:17:39 bpadalino: i came to a similar conclusion regarding egl, but i'm not sure since sdl does seem to use it in the background. having pieced together what's going on there yet Jan 07 04:17:55 what I mean is compiling code that results in compiling other code and sending it to other processors involves layers of apis, only some of which the compiler and linker are aware of Jan 07 04:18:42 rwhitby: my mmap_min_addr was 4097 Jan 07 04:19:14 dtzWill: as far as the answer to your question, GL in general is complex, they like it that way ;) Jan 07 04:19:20 destinal-pre: thanks for expanding on that. i guess i was thinking that 'gl*' should do the same thing regarding of version. Jan 07 04:19:45 * zsoc thought he ranted about that already Jan 07 04:19:56 destinal-pre: apparently that assumption is garbage Jan 07 04:19:57 FFP is old an broken. Jan 07 04:19:59 zsoc: heh it would appear so Jan 07 04:20:30 etx_: what if you set it to 0 ? Jan 07 04:21:04 dtzWill: http://www.khronos.org/opengles/2_X/ <-- look at the 2 giant flowcharts on that page, it will answer your questions Jan 07 04:21:09 Set it to 0 then try a make stage again? Jan 07 04:21:39 etx_: whichever step was failing Jan 07 04:21:42 zsoc: LOL i'm sorry i'm worthless, those diagrams were already on my screen as we speak i just dind't look. sigh Jan 07 04:22:01 dtzWill: don't beat yourself up .. Jan 07 04:22:01 was trying to reason about it without having to know what the pipelines were, etc Jan 07 04:22:04 silly me Jan 07 04:22:05 you're fine Jan 07 04:22:11 bpadalino: ty :) Jan 07 04:22:14 babystep Jan 07 04:22:14 s Jan 07 04:22:14 dtzWill: lol, well as you can see, it's not the api's so much as how you use them, like bpadalino was saying Jan 07 04:22:29 dtzWill: have I mentioned lately how phenominally awesome quake is? Jan 07 04:22:59 FPP was more... fixed. Programmable shaders allow for much more versitility while being more efficient and taking less steps Jan 07 04:23:06 that makes sense now, and it did then--but it took some convincing for me to get the function 'foo' in two versions of the same library does different things. i guess it's not a big deal at all i just wanted to make nice assumptions like that Jan 07 04:23:10 rwhitby: jacques: http://pastebin.com/m66b9f1a2 no dice Jan 07 04:23:14 cryptk: i don't think so haha :). thanks Jan 07 04:23:22 dtzWill: not to say there aren't FPP _only_ api's, because there are :) Jan 07 04:23:28 did anyone here create paratrooper? Jan 07 04:23:38 PreGame: try #webos Jan 07 04:23:39 PreGame: rbredow, in #webos Jan 07 04:24:46 "\" ... is that right ? Jan 07 04:24:48 etx_: look in the config.log (but I can't remember exactly where it is) Jan 07 04:25:31 zsoc, bpadalino: since you guys seem to be on the ball, as far as i can tell libGLES_CM is... an implementation of GLES v1? does that sound possible/correct to you? Jan 07 04:26:09 no Jan 07 04:26:22 it's a Common .. something ? Jan 07 04:26:36 jacques: /srv/preware/cross-compile/toolchain/arm-2007q3/bin/arm-none-linux-gnueabi-ld: warning: libamrnb.so.3, needed by /usr/local/lib/libavcodec.so, not found (try using -rpath or -rpath-link) Jan 07 04:27:06 dtzWill: has there been any work to get an indicator on the virtual joystick? a little circle around the boundaries of it? or a crosshair in the middle... maybe both... Jan 07 04:27:24 CM = Common .. CL = Common-Lite Jan 07 04:27:33 there are some people asking for it in the thread, I think it is a good idea too... I don't know how hard it would be to do it though Jan 07 04:27:38 dtzWill: I honestly don't know what GLES_CM, but in my limited searching around it seems to be what bpad is saying Jan 07 04:27:50 cryptk: make a .png image with alpha layers, blit it onto the surface using sdl Jan 07 04:28:03 cryptk: feel free to do it :) Jan 07 04:28:22 really if someone made the graphics i wouldn't mind implementing it Jan 07 04:28:28 but i don't really wanna go fight photoshop. Jan 07 04:28:30 so all we need is a png file the same size as the game resolution? Jan 07 04:28:31 <---not a graphics guy :) Jan 07 04:28:34 etx_: is libamrnb.so.3 in staging/armv7/usr/lib ? Jan 07 04:28:41 <-- graphics guy Jan 07 04:28:42 :) Jan 07 04:28:48 if so I can whip that up in GIMP in about 5 minutes... Jan 07 04:29:03 but I am at work so it would have to wait until at least the morning... Jan 07 04:29:11 unless etx wanted to do it ;) Jan 07 04:29:12 dtzWill: how would you feel about multiple graphics? (joystick being pushed in each direction, by event) Jan 07 04:29:15 gimme the virtual joystick dimentions ill do it right now Jan 07 04:29:26 etx_: the -rpath-link is meant to make libs in staging/armv7/usr/lib available in the link (sb2 maps /usr/local/lib to that dir) Jan 07 04:30:33 rwhitby: in the pastebin, he has LDFLAGS="\"-L/usr/local/lib -Wl,-rpath-link,/usr/local/lib -Wl,-rpath,/usr/local/lib\"" .. would that double quote LDFLAGS and does that matter ? Jan 07 04:31:04 rwhitby: yeah, libamrwb.so is in there symlinked to libamrwb.so.3.0.0 Jan 07 04:31:09 bpadalino: didn't work for me without the backslashed quotes Jan 07 04:31:15 bpadalino: ah, thanks for the explanation. Jan 07 04:31:28 etx_: is there a libamrnb.so.3 in there? Jan 07 04:32:09 zsoc: i'm pretty flexible on that. i think last time i thought about it decided two graphics: one always at 'center' so you could know where it was easily (so stopping was easy, etc), and a copy of that but diff color that followed your finger Jan 07 04:32:10 rwhitby: ah! Sorry miss read that, no their is not Jan 07 04:32:17 not in the real /usr/local/lib since sb2 can't see it Jan 07 04:32:46 i suck at cross compiling :/ heh Jan 07 04:32:53 LDFLAGS="-Wl,-rpath,/usr/local/lib -L/usr/local/lib" Jan 07 04:33:24 etx_: pastebin ls -l staging/armv7/usr/lib please Jan 07 04:34:26 rwhitby: http://pastebin.com/m58269f7 Jan 07 04:35:07 etx_: libamrnb is missing completely Jan 07 04:35:24 that it is Jan 07 04:35:55 etx_: did "make stage" fail for it? Jan 07 04:37:01 not that I can see, this libsdl-mixer error was the first error it encountered Jan 07 04:38:42 zsoc: thoughts on my proposed scheme? before i go implement it :) well or ask someone to get some graphics hehe Jan 07 04:40:05 dtzWill: yes, i approve more of your scheme Jan 07 04:40:58 dtzWill: makes since to me Jan 07 04:41:36 etx_, zsoc sounds good. really i think the biggest thing is just something telling you where the center is :) Jan 07 04:41:49 I was thinking a larger semi-opaque circle that was the entire size of the touch joystick and then a smaller indicator under the actual touch location Jan 07 04:42:00 but your idea covers less of the game area Jan 07 04:42:17 yep... if I could just get a very thin lined circle around the boundaries and a little crosshair in the center that would be perfect Jan 07 04:42:18 plus it's hard to see something under your thumb ;) Jan 07 04:42:20 also quake is very fun Jan 07 04:42:23 anything more is just bonus Jan 07 04:42:28 i've done that on ipod touch games Jan 07 04:42:30 yeah Jan 07 04:42:46 it's so badass now anything added on is a bonus heh Jan 07 04:42:46 zsoc: I agree, the second color one may be pointless since you can't ever see it... Jan 07 04:42:48 even if it isn't transparent honestly :P it's not like it's in a bad place Jan 07 04:42:50 etx_: Jack had an idea that you only show some parts when the finger is down--so maybe something small showing center, and then the bounds while you're moving? Jan 07 04:43:09 I say that because i'm not sure how sdlquake is going to handle the alpha blitting, with no hwsurface Jan 07 04:43:13 cryptk: yeah idk about the second one, but included it since people seemed to want confirmation that the game knows where it is :) Jan 07 04:43:17 zsoc: yeah... Jan 07 04:43:22 etx_: go into packages/amrnb and "make stage" then try again Jan 07 04:43:28 according to the docs, it works tho Jan 07 04:43:29 we'll see Jan 07 04:43:34 dtzWill: yeah that makes since for sure Jan 07 04:43:46 sence Jan 07 04:43:56 rwhitby: ok, ill give that a shot Jan 07 04:44:08 dtzWill: well, sometimes what people want and what makes sense are two different things, lol Jan 07 04:44:18 rwhitby: would you advise against trying to use the cross-compile git on 9.04 desktop edition? or do you want me to try it but then you won't troubleshoot? ;) Jan 07 04:44:35 zsoc: the latter Jan 07 04:44:41 lol Jan 07 04:44:55 zsoc: I'll trouble shoot for you, but not for Joe Random User Jan 07 04:44:56 zsoc: why not upgrade to 9.10? Jan 07 04:44:58 cryptk: understood haha. there's a reason that i don't read the p/c thread on quake as much as i'd want to' Jan 07 04:45:32 rwhitby: well i figure if it's a straight working environment, or an easy fix, the more options the better Jan 07 04:45:35 that is alright, I have been taking care of the quake thread lately... heading off the bad ideas like "I want volume up/down to be fire/jump" Jan 07 04:45:43 cryptk: i have my reasons Jan 07 04:46:11 does the pixi not have SDL? Jan 07 04:46:16 or a GPU? Jan 07 04:46:16 zsoc: don't mind experts having options, but Joe Random User should have only one option. Jan 07 04:46:36 cryptk: lol i think it _has_ gpu, but no sdl/kernel fb driver implementation right now Jan 07 04:46:41 rwhitby: gotcha Jan 07 04:46:45 ahh Jan 07 04:46:52 Y'know, Joe isn't really a very common name anymore. Jan 07 04:47:14 so the 1.3.5 for the two is different, I mean more different than the obvious changes (like screen res) Jan 07 04:47:16 rwhitby: so i clone cross-compile, make, and then try making in packages/scummvm ? Jan 07 04:47:23 bpadalino: yep Jan 07 04:47:33 do i need tomake this as sudo or anything ? Jan 07 04:47:37 bpadalino: "make build" in scummvm Jan 07 04:47:41 bpadalino: no root required Jan 07 04:47:46 excellent Jan 07 04:47:52 In fact, the height of the popularity of "Joe" for a male baby was 1935 Jan 07 04:48:29 zsoc: lol Jan 07 04:49:17 i'm following http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/ScratchBox2_cross_compiling_with_SDL ? Jan 07 04:50:01 yep Jan 07 04:50:23 oh ,the sb2-init stuff isn't part of the makefile ? Jan 07 04:50:43 If this works, it is by far the simplest debian cross compile instructions ever created Jan 07 04:52:07 zsoc: it does, and it is pretty easy. not sure where debian fits into it? but yeah it's easy Jan 07 04:52:24 dtzWill: er, it's debian _based_ :P apt and all i suppose i meant Jan 07 04:52:26 excuse me Mr. rwhitby sir Jan 07 04:52:41 zsoc: oh that's right. haha. :). whoops Jan 07 04:52:43 is this where I go for cross-compiler troubleshooting? Jan 07 04:52:47 freakout: you are literally an assclown Jan 07 04:53:07 someone say my name? Jan 07 04:53:10 imagine if all of the high profile people in the channel all changed their names to a variation of the name Joe for a couple hours... during prime question time... Jan 07 04:53:25 cryptk: it would be like 1935 all over again Jan 07 04:54:20 wow, toolchain is 100mb Jan 07 04:54:31 yeah, well .. it's a toolchain :) Jan 07 04:54:33 it would be even better for the people watching... someone comes in looking for that infamous rwhitby guy that can answer everything... they can't find him, but they see about 20 different people all named Joe, or Joseph, or Joey, lol Jan 07 04:54:35 guess that shouldn't surprise me Jan 07 04:54:53 Heywood Jan 07 04:54:55 would be a good way to avoid answering questions, lol Jan 07 04:54:57 er, Haywood Jan 07 04:55:12 mr jablome ? Jan 07 04:55:18 jack87: ping Jan 07 04:55:26 Jack87-wIRC: ping Jan 07 04:55:27 cryptk, hello! Jan 07 04:55:33 sup man Jan 07 04:55:34 cryptk: another good way is to just not answer them ;-) Jan 07 04:55:41 rwhitby: LOL! Jan 07 04:56:05 jack87: have you noticed the quake thread went 24 hours without people asking for volume button controls? Jan 07 04:56:13 cryptk, remember that nap i was talking about.. haha ya not happening Jan 07 04:56:18 well almost 24 hours... I may ahve just jinxed it right there though Jan 07 04:56:23 cryptk, good work! :) Jan 07 04:56:40 cryptk, i stopped following ill go check it out hehe Jan 07 04:56:44 hahaha, gotta suck to be you Jan 07 04:57:05 this is my post that I think may have finally ended all that talk Jan 07 04:57:05 http://forums.precentral.net/webos-internals/222222-quake-12.html#post2131908 Jan 07 04:58:06 and idontwanttoknow brought up a great point about the possible reliability issues of the buttons if they were being used all of the time for something like that Jan 07 04:58:27 cryptk: no idea what his post says, but i guarantee you those buttons have <10,000 clicks to them Jan 07 04:59:13 that is pretty much what he said... just that they would probably go out if they were being clicked non-stop by teenagers all over the country while playing quake Jan 07 04:59:31 I personally want my volume buttons to last until at least OpenGL comes out big time Jan 07 04:59:49 idontwanttoknow got that forme which i mentioned and i stole it from zsoc when he said it to me few days back when i said to use volume keys haha Jan 07 05:00:10 LOL Jan 07 05:00:52 I just saw an update flash on my screen... it is installing in the background... I think it said mozilla firefox... Jan 07 05:01:00 could my government computer be getting firefox? Jan 07 05:01:14 hahaha Jan 07 05:01:17 I want to use the phone proximity sensor as a button. thoughts? Jan 07 05:01:27 assclown: crotest Jan 07 05:01:28 mozilla firefox gov edition Jan 07 05:02:03 assclown: you can... there is a way to use the proximity as a power button Jan 07 05:02:13 just hold the phone against a wall and it will turn off Jan 07 05:02:22 you just gotta do it really fast and hard... may have to repeat Jan 07 05:03:14 hey rwhitby u up Jan 07 05:03:23 cryptk: that's amazing! Jan 07 05:03:27 at 3:30pm, usually, yes. Jan 07 05:03:36 lol Jan 07 05:03:38 lol Jan 07 05:03:41 i get this error Jan 07 05:03:41 checking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables See `config.log' for more details. make[1]: *** [build/armv7.built] Error 77 Jan 07 05:03:46 unless he's been drinking, which is always Jan 07 05:04:07 oh, it's you! Jan 07 05:04:18 rwhitby: I started over, same error, here is as much of the session as I can copy/paste http://pastebin.com/m4f6a9b40 Jan 07 05:05:03 etx_: lol u got the same error Jan 07 05:05:06 what a coinky dink Jan 07 05:05:29 rwhitby: kind of weird the script uses both curl and wget .. any particular reason for using both instead of just choosing one and going with it ? Jan 07 05:05:31 rwhitby: yes, zsoc rechristened me. Jan 07 05:05:35 atlanta: thanks, that's helpful Jan 07 05:05:59 etx_: indeed it is Jan 07 05:05:59 :-) Jan 07 05:06:04 heh Jan 07 05:06:10 bpadalino: historical Jan 07 05:06:22 ah Jan 07 05:09:02 so I find it odd that Palm put SDL onto the phone but it isn't using the GPU Jan 07 05:09:16 isnt the SDL using the GPU? Jan 07 05:09:21 cryptk: how do we know whether it is or not? Jan 07 05:09:40 heh, ok new error on make stage, i got "configure: error: *** SDL version 1.2.10 not found!" Jan 07 05:09:44 rwhitby, the fps on quake is quit low Jan 07 05:10:05 well... I would hope that a game from 1996 would get more than 20FPS if it were using the GPU Jan 07 05:10:05 jack87: and that tells us how? Jan 07 05:10:12 jack87: run at 600mhz then heh Jan 07 05:10:17 just an assumption bassed on taht Jan 07 05:10:22 especially considering how smooth the video of Need For Speed was Jan 07 05:10:35 and that is assuming that the NFS video is real (which I tend to believe now) Jan 07 05:11:11 rwhitby: can you think of any way to find for sure if it is using the GPU? Jan 07 05:11:18 cryptk: nope Jan 07 05:11:33 cryptk: I have a game that has a video mode flag of SDL_HWSURFACE Jan 07 05:11:34 ask palm nicely and hope they answer? Jan 07 05:11:38 ok, I fixed the clobber target in cross-compile.git Jan 07 05:11:42 cryptk|work: that creates a surface in video memory (ala GPU) Jan 07 05:11:44 btw, I do indeed have firefox government edition now Jan 07 05:11:47 zsoc: ping Jan 07 05:11:58 wait for 24 hours? Jan 07 05:12:02 ff gov edition? what? Jan 07 05:12:04 cryptk|work: Also, the opengles demo is gpu accellerated Jan 07 05:12:06 PuffTheMagic: yes? Jan 07 05:12:27 so that error that you get when HW surface is enabled.... Jan 07 05:12:31 cryptk|work: lol Jan 07 05:12:33 its not so much an error Jan 07 05:12:35 rwhitby: any help on that error Jan 07 05:12:35 zsoc: that I know, I am just curious why we can't get quake to use the GPU Jan 07 05:12:35 ? Jan 07 05:12:37 as it is a statement Jan 07 05:12:49 atlanta: trying to reproduce, hence the clobber target fix Jan 07 05:12:59 ok gotcha Jan 07 05:12:59 lol Jan 07 05:13:05 gkatsev: I just had firefox automatically installed on my computer Jan 07 05:13:09 rwhitby: any idea on this? "configure: error: *** SDL version 1.2.10 not found!" Jan 07 05:13:17 cryptk|work: because we don't have a working opengl version? Jan 07 05:13:25 PuffTheMagic: define Jan 07 05:13:26 someone in here made a ff govt edition joke when I mentioned that I thought taht is what was being isntalled Jan 07 05:13:49 zsoc: that error is palms way of saying "dont allow hwsurface its not supported" Jan 07 05:13:59 zsoc: that I know, but why can't the SDL version use the GPU for acceleration? Jan 07 05:14:43 so palm's session is 11am Las Vegas time, right? Jan 07 05:14:53 zsoc: how'd you get around the SDL_HWSURFACE stuff again? did you find a consistent way to avoid that? or any tricks? ...or does it just work? :) Jan 07 05:15:15 you just cant use HWSURFACE Jan 07 05:15:21 PuffTheMagic: no it isn't. it's palms way of saying "sdl error handling is terrible and we should put an error in here that suggests that you shouldn't use hwsurface Jan 07 05:15:22 only SWSURFACE is allowed Jan 07 05:15:23 " Jan 07 05:15:36 rwhitby: i get: ./toolchain/arm-2007q3/bin/arm-none-linux-gnueabi-ld: cannot find -lavutil Jan 07 05:15:40 dtzWill: dunno, just this one example seems to work? Jan 07 05:15:40 when doing libsdl-mixer Jan 07 05:15:44 zsoc: no look at the patch.... they are specifically disabling HWSURFACE cause it breaks the VFB Jan 07 05:15:55 or.... Jan 07 05:16:01 VFB dont work with HWSURFACE Jan 07 05:16:06 PuffTheMagic: no, that is a SetError(), which doesn't get called unless there's an error :P Jan 07 05:16:08 zsoc: fair enough, although the error suggests otherwise.. and haven't look at the patch that closely but puff makes a good point Jan 07 05:16:28 zsoc: nvm idk what i'm talking about, i haven't looked at it closely Jan 07 05:16:29 zsoc: but its not really an error Jan 07 05:16:38 ( cd build/src ; sb2 -M /srv/preware/cross-compile/staging/mapping-armv7 LDFLAGS="\"-L/usr/local/lib -Wl,-rpath-link,/usr/local/lib -Wl,-rpath,/usr/local/lib\"" ./configure ) Jan 07 05:16:42 fails on that comman Jan 07 05:16:42 zsoc: you cant use HWSURFACE Jan 07 05:16:46 that is all its saying Jan 07 05:16:54 in the form of an error Jan 07 05:17:17 PuffTheMagic: i'm not disagreeing with you, but there's no good reason for it. Hell, opengl works fine. Why not hwsurface? Half the stuff opengles does is similar (double buffing, render fliping, etc0 Jan 07 05:17:18 ) Jan 07 05:17:34 zsoc: opengl and hwsurface are nothing alike Jan 07 05:17:43 just cause 1 works dont mean the other would Jan 07 05:17:53 where does libavutil come from anyway ? Jan 07 05:17:57 PuffTheMagic: yes you're right, hwsurface rendering is much simpler :P Jan 07 05:19:34 PuffTheMagic: so i guess the verdict is, we can do crappy sdl stuff, or we can use sdl as a tiny wrapper for opengl es 2 Jan 07 05:19:41 we better all start reading that 457 page book Jan 07 05:19:50 lma Jan 07 05:19:52 i suggest starting on page 1 Jan 07 05:20:16 bpadalino, atlanta, etx_: still doing a rebuild here Jan 07 05:20:26 ah Jan 07 05:20:28 rwhitby: ok thanks Jan 07 05:20:29 cool Jan 07 05:20:39 i definitely don't have libavutil here .. and no idea where it comes from :( Jan 07 05:20:40 zsoc: we can use sdl to do non-crappy sdl stuff Jan 07 05:20:46 zsoc: emulators not efficient Jan 07 05:20:50 but the mixer definitely needs it Jan 07 05:21:08 destinal-away: its fully functional now lol Jan 07 05:21:18 any body got a good git tut Jan 07 05:21:18 ? Jan 07 05:21:29 man git Jan 07 05:21:54 ok Jan 07 05:21:59 going to read now Jan 07 05:22:02 oh, i comes from ffmpeg Jan 07 05:22:26 rwhitby: palm's thing is 10am PST, 4.30am adelaide time Jan 07 05:22:28 zsoc: u update to 1.3.5.1? Jan 07 05:22:36 PuffTheMagic: ya Jan 07 05:22:50 zsoc: did you try the encoder? Jan 07 05:22:58 * freakout-Pre may be doing a meta-liveblog, since he can't be there in person... Jan 07 05:23:13 PuffTheMagic: lol its a 1mb patch. just the calender fix Jan 07 05:23:26 freakout-Pre: those are the best kinds, of course. Jan 07 05:23:30 i have to get to bed Jan 07 05:24:14 freakout-Pre: I thought 11am CES time? Jan 07 05:24:39 um, boss sent me an email saying 10am Jan 07 05:25:25 is there a vnc port on the pre yet? Jan 07 05:25:31 im too lazy to look through everything Jan 07 05:25:37 freakout-Pre: http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/15/palm-invites-us-to-see-and-hear-whats-new-at-ces-2010/ Jan 07 05:25:42 rwhitby: and now looking at the invite it definitely says 11am Jan 07 05:26:10 good, cause I might get up at 5:30am for it, but not 4:30am Jan 07 05:26:17 acydlord: nope Jan 07 05:26:23 zsoc: night Jan 07 05:26:28 ty :> Jan 07 05:26:50 rwhitby: that pleases me too, I sure as hell didn't wanna get up at 5am Jan 07 05:26:55 atlanta: gitcasts are good for windows Jan 07 05:27:09 ubuntu? Jan 07 05:27:11 i still have the virtual monitor hack on my computer from my n810, so all i'd need is vnc on the pre Jan 07 05:27:39 * atlanta checking out gitcast now Jan 07 05:29:14 egaudet, rwhitby: ping Jan 07 05:29:20 zsoc|away: omg Jan 07 05:29:30 dBsooner: syn|ack Jan 07 05:29:57 PuffTheMagic: ? Jan 07 05:30:05 rwhitby: I woulda sent him a reset packet and ignored him... Jan 07 05:30:14 zsoc|away: gst-launch -v alsasrc ! palmaudioencoder enable=0 ! identity ! fakesink Jan 07 05:30:18 ^^ no timestamps Jan 07 05:30:21 no durations Jan 07 05:30:23 gst-launch -v alsasrc ! palmaudioencoder enable=1 ! identity ! fakesink Jan 07 05:30:27 timestamps and durations Jan 07 05:30:32 bpadalino, atlanta, etx_: I get an SDL version errors in sdl-image too Jan 07 05:30:44 rwhitby: It seems that in 1.3.5 the "com.palm.pdfviewer" app is no longer tar.gz'd Jan 07 05:30:53 it is actually extracted already into TWO directories.. Jan 07 05:31:00 PuffTheMagic: DID ANYONE REPLY TO YOUR THREAD ON FORUMS? Jan 07 05:31:05 rwhitby: i think SDL_mixer requires ffmpeg libs .. and that isn't being built/copied over Jan 07 05:31:20 PuffTheMagic: THEY FIXED THE MOTHER CHODE TIMESTAMPS?!?!?! IN A xxx1 UPDATE?!?!?!!? Jan 07 05:31:24 zsoc|away: yeah someone said they would pass it along Jan 07 05:31:30 in /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.pdfviewer and in /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.pdfviewer Jan 07 05:31:31 zsoc|away: idk when it was fixed Jan 07 05:31:34 PuffTheMagic: you didn't say that, who said that? what? Jan 07 05:31:37 or if we even tested with enable=1 Jan 07 05:31:45 PuffTheMagic: I tested with enable 1 Jan 07 05:31:47 rwhitby: i didnt get the sdl error Jan 07 05:32:04 But in 1.3.1 and earlier, it was tgz'd, so we had a DEPENDS on the extractor app Jan 07 05:32:07 brb... govt mandated smoke break time Jan 07 05:32:07 bet it was a tiny binary patch Jan 07 05:32:08 zsoc|away: using the identity element? Jan 07 05:32:25 PuffTheMagic: crap.. maybe not with identity. er.. maybe Jan 07 05:32:32 and -v Jan 07 05:32:33 well in 1.3.5 we won't need that extractor app installed/run.. so how would have one makefile do two things based on version. Jan 07 05:32:51 dBsooner: ifeq (${VERSION},....) Jan 07 05:33:07 rwhitby: also, which one would palm be using Jan 07 05:33:08 ? Jan 07 05:33:09 PuffTheMagic: well you need -v to see the timestamps :P Jan 07 05:33:16 PuffTheMagic: well this is crap. or awesome, i don't know which Jan 07 05:33:22 the /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/... or the /usr... Jan 07 05:33:24 ok, I get the libsdl-mixer error Jan 07 05:33:27 lol Jan 07 05:33:34 PuffTheMagic: i only hope it actually fixes the muxing issue Jan 07 05:33:46 PuffTheMagic: i hope this was xxx1, otherwise someone at palm is laughing at us D: Jan 07 05:33:49 zsoc, you are SO not away Jan 07 05:34:03 freakout: but you're pre.... mature Jan 07 05:34:04 i didnt test it with enable=1 when 1.3.5 came out Jan 07 05:34:05 better yet, can someone with 1.3.5 confirm the PDFApp exists in BOTh directories? Jan 07 05:34:24 zsoc|away: enable=1 turns on timestamps and durations for both audio and video encoders Jan 07 05:34:25 PuffTheMagic: since the second 135 came out i've been doing sdl stuff :P remember? i'm the WHE? doom port? ;) Jan 07 05:34:36 PuffTheMagic: yeah but it never did before :P Jan 07 05:34:41 dBsooner, it's not in /media/cryptofs Jan 07 05:34:43 and pong Jan 07 05:34:49 egaudet: then why is mine there? Jan 07 05:34:59 zsoc|away: what was the gst-command we were using Jan 07 05:35:02 probably left over from pdf extract patch before update Jan 07 05:35:11 (I have webosdoctore3d back to 1.2.1 and updated all the way to 1.3.5.1 OTA) Jan 07 05:35:13 ok, the staging problems are due to ordering. Jan 07 05:35:47 I'm going to have to completely revamp the makefiles to be able to order the staging of packages. Jan 07 05:35:48 I think it exists on /media/cryptofs Jan 07 05:35:50 dBsooner, it's always been in /usr/palm/applications Jan 07 05:35:56 that's what i meant Jan 07 05:35:57 ok Jan 07 05:36:02 revamp .. uh oh Jan 07 05:36:03 PuffTheMagic: move channels Jan 07 05:36:06 have you opened it? Jan 07 05:36:14 egaudet: but there is no .tar.gz anymore Jan 07 05:36:25 speaking of doctoring, time to meta-doctor dev pre to 1.3.5 final Jan 07 05:36:45 that's good no tar.gz we can remove extract package Jan 07 05:37:01 egaudet: it doesn't exists in /usr Jan 07 05:37:06 not on mine Jan 07 05:37:25 thanks rwhitby these gitcast are helpful Jan 07 05:37:58 5.3M /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.pdfviewer Jan 07 05:38:11 4.0k /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.pdfviewer Jan 07 05:38:26 756.0k /var/usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.pdfviewer Jan 07 05:38:30 explain that.. ;) Jan 07 05:39:01 dBsooner: the first and last are probably from migration Jan 07 05:39:18 yeah, i think it USED to be in /var/usr/palm Jan 07 05:39:25 and now its in /media/cryptofs/palm Jan 07 05:39:42 err.. /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm Jan 07 05:39:56 and then the /usr/palm is just a fluke.. and shoulnd't be there.. as that directory is empt. Jan 07 05:39:59 s/empty. Jan 07 05:40:14 Can someone with 1.3.5 please confirm this? Jan 07 05:40:55 dBsooner: I'll be doctoring a sprint pre direct to 1.3.5 final soon Jan 07 05:41:07 bah, no mandriva packages for scrathbox2 Jan 07 05:41:46 rwhitby: in the next 20 mins? ;) Jan 07 05:41:49 * dBsooner is getting tired. Jan 07 05:41:55 dBsooner, explain what? Jan 07 05:42:23 why /usr is empty, /var/usr/palm still has stuff.. but /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm is big Jan 07 05:42:32 can you check yours and tell me your findings. Jan 07 05:42:52 416.0k /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.pdfviewer Jan 07 05:43:12 756.0k /var/usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.pdfviewer Jan 07 05:43:20 I have nothing on /media/cryptofs Jan 07 05:43:27 wtf? Jan 07 05:43:33 I don't use the pdf app though, so I don't know. Does it store all the pdf's in those dirs? Jan 07 05:43:38 do you have any other directories in /var/usr/palm/applications? Jan 07 05:43:46 because I only have com.palm.app.pdfviewer there Jan 07 05:43:49 no Jan 07 05:44:07 odd Jan 07 05:44:20 naturally, sbox2 won't build from git :( Jan 07 05:44:52 I am just trying to figure out how to "port" these pdf viewer for landscape Jan 07 05:44:59 it has to be /usr/palm/applications Jan 07 05:46:36 going to bed Jan 07 05:46:42 rwhitby: let me know if u find out anything Jan 07 05:46:55 dBsooner: I am on 1.3.5 what should I check? Jan 07 05:47:15 dBsooner: doctoring now Jan 07 05:47:39 jacques: du -h /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/com.palm.apps.pdfviewer Jan 07 05:47:54 rwhitby: do you think building the libs we can build for staging is a good idea, or just link against the ones that are there are pull in the include files for linking ? Jan 07 05:48:17 woops Jan 07 05:48:22 dBsooner: du: /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/com.palm.apps.pdfviewer: No such file or directory Jan 07 05:48:23 jacques: du -h /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.pdfviewer Jan 07 05:48:28 bpadalino: we don't use any of the built libs Jan 07 05:48:33 just the include files Jan 07 05:48:36 not *.apps.*, *.app.* Jan 07 05:48:47 du: /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.pdfviewer: No such file or directory Jan 07 05:48:54 ok.. Jan 07 05:48:57 rwhitby: so if we just want the include files, why not CC="echo" to avoid these deps issues ? Jan 07 05:49:00 now do Jan 07 05:49:10 jacques: du -h /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.pdfviewer Jan 07 05:49:29 bpadalino: not a bad idea at all Jan 07 05:49:30 416.0k /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.pdfviewer Jan 07 05:49:50 bpadalino: I was also using them as a test case of whether we had things working Jan 07 05:50:02 jacques: du -h /var/usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.pdfviewer Jan 07 05:50:09 (i.e. if we can't rebuild the libs, then we don't have a good cross-compile environment) Jan 07 05:50:20 understandable Jan 07 05:50:25 does anyone know how to trace novacom commands ? Jan 07 05:50:35 trace ? Jan 07 05:50:51 yeah, see the novacom commands going from host to device over usb Jan 07 05:50:54 etx_: ping Jan 07 05:50:59 telnet to localhost port ... 6968 ? Jan 07 05:51:20 one of those ports gives novacom debug output Jan 07 05:51:41 dBsooner: 756.0k /var/usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.pdfviewer Jan 07 05:51:46 sweet.. thanks. Jan 07 05:51:54 lots of cruft - heartbeats and whatnot .. but i think you get good info too Jan 07 05:51:54 that means its /usr Jan 07 05:52:07 and I am the oddball with it somewhere in limbo Jan 07 05:52:09 bpadalino: not 6968 Jan 07 05:52:22 6970 - and lots of cruft Jan 07 05:52:29 ah, there you go Jan 07 05:52:44 can you grep it to get rid of a lot of the cruft and just get the commands ? Jan 07 05:52:55 or do they not show up as ascii commands there? Jan 07 05:52:58 rwhitby: as for sdlmame, the sdl init issue may be simple, but it's a pain to debug when having to send a 45MiB binary to the device all the time Jan 07 05:53:03 nope, it seems to not show the commands, just that a packet went across Jan 07 05:53:16 jacques: NFS Jan 07 05:53:48 well that's not any good Jan 07 05:53:50 rwhitby: makeing asmaller binary is theoretically possible, with SUBTARGET=tiny but that appears to have bitrotted and looks very painful to fix Jan 07 05:54:30 rwhitby: lol why didn't I think of NFS since I had it working a few days ago Jan 07 05:54:31 dtzWill: ping Jan 07 05:54:38 rwhitby: which novacom commands are you trying to trace ? Jan 07 05:54:40 a doctoring ? Jan 07 05:54:49 45MiB binary? whoa Jan 07 05:54:56 xcomp: stripped Jan 07 05:55:17 that's mame built the default way with all the emulators builtin Jan 07 05:55:20 shared libs? Jan 07 05:55:24 oh, mame Jan 07 05:55:44 yeah, might need to do a custom build for that one Jan 07 05:56:09 how long would that take to install over preware, lol Jan 07 05:56:10 I say we need custon tiny.mak / tiny.c Jan 07 05:56:13 heh ... you guys really want to turn the pre into the ultimate vintage gaming device :) Jan 07 05:56:19 I hope you guys have unlimited bandwidth, LOL Jan 07 05:56:33 not too many games are going to be playable anyway Jan 07 05:56:58 or is it possible to have the different emulators as seperate downloads and make a mame section in preware Jan 07 05:57:00 i wonder how you're going to execute a hadouken effectively with the accelerometer Jan 07 05:57:28 best thing to do is just build in the enulators for the games which work Jan 07 05:57:35 damn I can't type at all Jan 07 05:58:23 I think this might be related to the problem: sdlvideo_init : machine->config->total_colors == 0 Jan 07 05:58:53 well...after hand-piping five patches from a mailing list i finally got scratchbox2 to compile Jan 07 05:59:12 xcomp: I had to do the same thing - probably the same 5 patches Jan 07 05:59:50 but I am using it in a 32-bit ubuntu VM. haven't tried the 64-bit F12 I compiled with those patches Jan 07 06:01:10 what's weird is that those patches were posted back in september Jan 07 06:01:16 cryptk|work: we're in the same rack as master.kernel.org, with the same insane pipes Jan 07 06:01:38 but for whatever reason they haven't been uploaded to the repo Jan 07 06:01:55 xcomp: yeah I noticed that too Jan 07 06:02:06 rwhitby: hmmm...how come I only get like 140KB/s downloads? Jan 07 06:02:07 if our five year old server (which we hope to replace soon using donations) can pump out the data, the network it's connected to can handle it easily. Jan 07 06:03:50 well rwhitby did you read the caht this morning about sprint evidentally buying webos-internals a server? Jan 07 06:04:09 cryptk|work: sup Jan 07 06:04:13 I don't know how much I believe it, but someone was saying that it will be on their corporate charity site by the end of the month... Jan 07 06:04:20 dtzWill: I forgot what I wanted, lol... Jan 07 06:04:26 oh that's right Jan 07 06:04:39 cryptk|work: they didn't buy us a server. they have indicated an intention to donate towards a server upgrade. Jan 07 06:04:40 is etx_ making that graphic or do I need to whip something up when I get home? Jan 07 06:04:49 ahh, that's what it is Jan 07 06:05:00 so they are going to donate money towards the server Jan 07 06:05:08 how much do you think it will cost total? Jan 07 06:05:21 plan max is $3.5K Jan 07 06:05:33 plan min is $1.5K Jan 07 06:05:42 depends how much we get Jan 07 06:06:13 hmm meta-doctor ipkg verification step failed. Jan 07 06:06:41 uh oh Jan 07 06:09:12 integcheck -r /tmp_rootfs root Jan 07 06:11:04 hmm - my logic for replacing the md5sums of patched files seems to be failing Jan 07 06:11:36 good luck fixing it .. time for sleep.. ttyt Jan 07 06:14:25 2010-01-07 00:14:08.331 (ERROR) bash[31048] ERROR: Fatal: Rule file interface version check failed: No version information in /tmp/sb2-ibukun-20100107-001408.oCbeVN/rules/Default.lua Jan 07 06:14:30 # exit 99 (99) Jan 07 06:14:36 rwhitby: any clues there? :/ Jan 07 06:14:37 integcheck -r /tmp_rootfs ipkg failed too Jan 07 06:14:53 xcomp: nope Jan 07 06:24:53 hi all! Jan 07 06:25:17 can some one please tell me where the apps are now stored. var/usr/palm doesn't work anymore Jan 07 06:25:48 JenP: /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications Jan 07 06:25:55 thanks! Jan 07 06:26:08 cryptofs is only visible with root, btw Jan 07 06:26:21 oh yeah..np Jan 07 06:26:32 fun fact: the pre still runs with no battery if it's plugged in Jan 07 06:26:55 was surrised when i popped it out and it was still running hehe Jan 07 06:27:02 dtzWill: isnt that a good thing? Jan 07 06:27:12 dtzWill: i thought it pops up a big question mark when you do that Jan 07 06:27:28 hm... could you run it with the touchstone backplate and no battery? Jan 07 06:27:30 never tried to figure if the actual os was still running under that Jan 07 06:27:33 gkatsev: yeah it is i just forgot it was plugged in :) Jan 07 06:27:41 lol Jan 07 06:27:43 they must have changed the behavior then Jan 07 06:27:49 xcomp: that didn't happen but it was frozen, hence me pulling the battery Jan 07 06:27:53 lol Jan 07 06:28:05 xcomp: when i tried to boot it that way for kicks, it did pop up the battery, so you're probably right Jan 07 06:29:39 dtzWill: I doubt you could make a call without a battery Jan 07 06:29:57 gkatsev: i don't have cryptofs in my /media...using WinSCP Jan 07 06:29:59 the transmit current is usually too much for even a 1A usb conneciton Jan 07 06:31:16 JenP: are you connected as root or a user via WinSCP ? Jan 07 06:31:33 as a user... Jan 07 06:31:46 what's the root password? Jan 07 06:31:50 [00:26] cryptofs is only visible with root, btw Jan 07 06:32:11 JenP: we need to covert you to using ssh keys Jan 07 06:32:37 darn it. kk Jan 07 06:33:01 s/shh keys/linux/ Jan 07 06:33:06 JenP: do you have PuTTY installed (I'm assuming a windows box) Jan 07 06:33:21 yeah have putty Jan 07 06:33:22 lol @ PuffTheMagic Jan 07 06:35:26 JenP: ever used PuTTYgen ? Jan 07 06:35:26 (or ssh keys in any way) Jan 07 06:35:26 JenP: http://the.earth.li/~sgtatham/putty/0.58/htmldoc/Chapter8.html is the PuTTYgen man page on what you need to do Jan 07 06:35:42 thanks rwhitby Jan 07 06:35:58 i'm in putty...logging in as root...trying to remember the pw Jan 07 06:36:56 JenP: forget passwords, we're going to set you up with ssh keys Jan 07 06:37:10 JenP: http://www.wellsi.com/sme/ssh/ssh.html#KeyGenWindows Jan 07 06:37:42 JenP: the text at #7 needs to go into /home/root/.ssh/authorized_keys Jan 07 06:38:03 kk, but have to do it tomorrow i've goto go work out and have a 4 am wake up. Jan 07 06:38:19 But I'll ttyt...thanks! Jan 07 06:38:31 JenP: http://unixwiz.net/techtips/putty-openssh.html is a really good tutorial page Jan 07 06:38:40 (it's linked from http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:OpenSSH) Jan 07 06:38:48 cool i'll read them all Jan 07 06:39:53 JenP: login as your user, then do "sudo su" Jan 07 06:39:54 g'nite guys Jan 07 06:39:59 night JenP Jan 07 06:40:05 smiles... Jan 07 06:40:12 ok, my dev Pre is now meta-virgin 1.3.5 Jan 07 06:40:38 jettero: night Jan 07 06:40:40 who wanted to know what about 1.3.5 ? Jan 07 06:40:41 crap Jan 07 06:40:43 tab fail Jan 07 06:41:18 dang, forgot to full erase first. Jan 07 06:43:23 rwhitby: full erase? is that a novacom cmd? Jan 07 06:43:38 jacques: nope, Device Info, Reset Options, Full Erase Jan 07 06:44:05 ah, but what if the device isn't booting ? Jan 07 06:44:16 I guess you have to doctor, full erase, and doctor again? Jan 07 06:46:30 night all Jan 07 06:47:05 xcomp: in palm os on centro without battery phone doesn't work Jan 07 06:48:17 Jack87-wIRC: my 755p ran fine without a battery Jan 07 06:48:46 jacques: yep Jan 07 06:48:59 xcomp: must of just been the centro.. I can't remember my 755 Jan 07 06:53:54 *yawn* Jan 07 06:54:55 rwhitby: if you are around, can you start the build process? Jan 07 06:56:53 rwhitby: shoot.. no don't.. just a sec Jan 07 06:57:24 rwhitby: nm, go ahead. Jan 07 06:59:11 dBsooner: started Jan 07 06:59:17 thanks. :) Jan 07 06:59:28 11 new, 11 modified Jan 07 06:59:39 finally Jan 07 06:59:44 argh... Jan 07 06:59:50 why won't my nick stick... Jan 07 06:59:56 there we go Jan 07 07:00:04 rwhitby: just take a look at this page: http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications Jan 07 07:00:24 hehe.. I had to basically commit one by one so I could switch back and forth between branchers Jan 07 07:03:01 * rwhitby now has a 1.3.1 Pre and a 1.3.5 meta-virgin Pre Jan 07 07:03:29 So when the GSM update hits I get to test preware, migration and aupt Jan 07 07:06:06 is the general concensus that as long as I haven't patched the calendar, I can update from 1.3.5 to 1.3.5.1 without removing patches? Jan 07 07:06:41 s/concensus/consensus/ Jan 07 07:06:42 jacques meant: is the general consensus that as long as I haven't patched the calendar, I can update from 1.3.5 to 1.3.5.1 without removing patches? Jan 07 07:07:20 infobot: from now on, fix me spelling automatically Jan 07 07:07:54 jacques: yep... Jan 07 07:07:56 jacques: dunno, I haven't seen a list of files touched by 1.3.5.1 cross-referenced against the list of files touched by the patches Jan 07 07:08:12 that is what I did... removed my few calendar patches, installed update, reinstalled calendar patches... Jan 07 07:08:15 no problems so far Jan 07 07:08:25 and I had almost 50 other patches isntalled at the time of the update Jan 07 07:08:38 but safe side, remove them Jan 07 07:08:51 but I have not heard of anyone having problems Jan 07 07:09:09 rwhitby: when I saw the 1.3.5.1 update, it was very small Jan 07 07:09:17 1MB Jan 07 07:09:19 removing and re-installing them is too much trouble. if it screws up my pre I'll doctor it :-D Jan 07 07:09:28 it only touched like 8 packages. Jan 07 07:11:57 here's an interesting snippet: http://webos.pastebin.com/m2264a86 Jan 07 07:14:32 I think I'll take an rsync of this virgin device before I run firstuse Jan 07 07:17:53 preware-bootstrap, openssh-sftp-server, keys, rsync, done. Jan 07 07:19:42 Hmm - three uknown packages on a virgin preware feeds update Jan 07 07:20:06 maybe it isn't really a virgin afterall Jan 07 07:20:08 Tip Calculator, Accel Service, Netstatd Jan 07 07:20:31 joshua: this is in the available packages, not installed. Jan 07 07:20:38 rwhitby: any idea how the new check for proper device carrier "compatibility" works? Jan 07 07:20:48 destinal: nope Jan 07 07:20:56 they stopped an O2 pre from being flashed sprint or world ready or whatever Jan 07 07:21:13 I think it would be beneficial for development purposes to be able to disable that check Jan 07 07:22:07 cool, xbmc is going to have a booth at SCALE Jan 07 07:22:18 destinal: probably in the doctor java classes somewhere Jan 07 07:22:29 jacques: we should get xbmc running on a pre for a synergy thing (lol) Jan 07 07:24:53 hmm, I have to write about 150 words describing webos-internals Jan 07 07:25:44 for the SCALE page Jan 07 07:25:54 so far I have 36 Jan 07 07:26:03 hrm, anyone looked at NesEM yet? Jan 07 07:26:13 was that the same program Photon or whatever was offering up last night? Jan 07 07:27:05 yep Jan 07 07:27:15 FuMan: where is it now? Jan 07 07:27:50 destinal: XBMC has a nice web interface that I tried using with my pre, but the pre doesn't support a couple of CSS tags which made it impossible to use Jan 07 07:28:17 Just had a buddy e-mail it to me Jan 07 07:28:30 FuMan: an ipk? Jan 07 07:28:39 jah Jan 07 07:28:48 don't have any roms handy Jan 07 07:28:56 but installed it with QI and it runs, for what thats worth. Jan 07 07:28:59 I'm betting they used the new technique we documented to build it type=game Jan 07 07:29:17 ive got an odd feeling Jan 07 07:29:27 most people base their work off here ;P Jan 07 07:29:47 definitely not a bad thing to do Jan 07 07:29:58 it is kinda funny Jan 07 07:30:01 just wonder why it's not in any public repositories Jan 07 07:30:03 and maybe its just because of group effort Jan 07 07:30:14 since a lot of people probably would like to try it Jan 07 07:30:16 but stuff like Preware Jan 07 07:30:17 wIRC Jan 07 07:30:25 100x more polished than most paid-for apps in the cat O_o Jan 07 07:30:41 destinal: they didn't - it's just a browser plugin Jan 07 07:31:21 destinal: it's a commercial product Jan 07 07:31:26 when you say browser, you literally mean the built in web browser? Jan 07 07:32:03 rwhitby: it's a browser plugin? like NPAPI that terminal is the only other one I know of browser plugin> Jan 07 07:32:04 ? Jan 07 07:32:12 destinal: yep Jan 07 07:32:17 wow Jan 07 07:32:51 and they got the postinst and prerm correct for 1.3.5 Jan 07 07:32:54 "Eventually yes, we would like to make NesEm available via Preware once it is tested by public and verified to be stable. For now, you can use WebOS Quick Install." Jan 07 07:33:15 destinal: where's that from? Jan 07 07:33:19 http://discussion.treocentral.com/webos-apps-software/222374-native-nesem-webos.html Jan 07 07:33:55 they're a little behind the curve, NPAPI is so 2009 :) Jan 07 07:34:53 trips me out when people link to treocentral Jan 07 07:34:58 been awhile since i've seen that red Jan 07 07:37:53 dammit Jan 07 07:40:16 did anybody say anything to me while I was being disconnected? Jan 07 07:43:25 hello Jan 07 07:43:44 jacques: nope Jan 07 07:44:45 rwhitby: any suggestions? I just want to be sure I'm presenting webos-internals properly Jan 07 07:45:09 emphasizing the right things Jan 07 07:46:09 ok, let me spout same words then .... Jan 07 07:48:29 WebOS Internals is a group of developers dedicated to the pursuit of an open environment of sharing information, code, and documentation related to Palm's webOS operating system. Jan 07 07:48:39 WebOS Internals is also the main coordination body for the open standard homebrew ecosystem of applications, patches, themes, plugins, services and Linux utilities for webOS devices. Jan 07 07:50:36 Using open source development processes, and real-time internet communication, WebOS Internals has been able to develop a number of leading advanced homebrew applications for the Palm Pre and Palm Pixi, including ...... (list our apps here). Jan 07 07:52:44 rwhitby: impressive. why can't you be at SCALE. Jan 07 07:53:11 I assume preware is our premier application Jan 07 07:54:01 In addition to these popular homebrew applications, WebOS Internals also manages the open standard homebrew ecosystem hosted at preware.org, and the Preware advanced homebrew installer application. Jan 07 07:54:49 at least preware is a pretty good app :) Jan 07 07:55:58 Preware provides access to over 1500 applications, patches, themes, services and plugins for webOS devices - any application that is not in the official Palm App Catalog can be found in Preware. Jan 07 07:56:31 jacques: then add web page, youtube channel, twitter, IRC channel, etc details at the end. Jan 07 07:56:34 rwhitby: Feel free to retweet. :) Jan 07 07:56:41 jacques: how's that ? Jan 07 07:56:43 I didn't tag you in it.. Jan 07 07:56:47 In particular, we develop many software packages that do not suck. :) Jan 07 07:56:50 (not enough room) Jan 07 07:57:14 more than five Jan 07 07:58:18 * oil develops stuff he wants to use, and only trusts himself to get it right :) Jan 07 07:58:46 jacques: you can probably add something about how WebOS Internals is at the leading edge of application development, pioneering techniques such as NPAPI browser plugins, Java and C native services, and native binary applications (such as our latest SDL games). Jan 07 07:59:16 * rwhitby gets oil to develop his stuff, cause he doesn't trust himself. Jan 07 07:59:42 rwhitby: hey, when you put it that way, we're pretty cool! :) Jan 07 07:59:50 * destinal is soooo tired Jan 07 07:59:51 sorry, someone was actually helping me on #edev (!!!) Jan 07 07:59:59 with a qemu issue I am having Jan 07 07:59:59 lol Jan 07 08:00:17 jacques: I'm not going to repeat myself ;-) Jan 07 08:00:43 rwhitby: twitter is @webosinternals ? what's the youtube channel ? Jan 07 08:00:56 no I have the history Jan 07 08:01:50 rwhitby: huh, freetype fails to build for me but I know it was working at some point yesterday Jan 07 08:01:59 at least I think so Jan 07 08:02:39 arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc: couldn't run '/srv/preware/cross-compile/toolchain/arm-2007q3/bin/arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc--specs=/usr/share/scratchbox2/modeconf/gcc-specs.simple': No such file or directory Jan 07 08:02:42 destinal: yeah, it's an ordering problem Jan 07 08:04:55 oh Jan 07 08:04:58 I think I see Jan 07 08:05:18 toolchain comes before setting target but relies on sb2 Jan 07 08:06:55 rwhitby: not that one.. lol.. but I'll take that as a good retweet too.. :) I just posted the info on the new/updated patches for 1.3.1 and 1.3.5 with link's to the thread posts. Jan 07 08:07:44 so it's a file under /sys somewhere that causes the Pre to reboot when you read it Jan 07 08:08:38 anyone tried fbdraw? Jan 07 08:08:38 http://www.youtube.com/webosinternals Jan 07 08:09:10 jacques: yep Jan 07 08:10:32 Thanks Rod. Jan 07 08:11:02 (I can always tell when you retweet.. I get a "**** is now following you on Twitter" email like immediately. Jan 07 08:11:24 and it makes dbsooner giddy like a school girl Jan 07 08:11:29 :) Jan 07 08:11:32 If anyone is interested, tuxracer is in git semi-ported to WebOS. It builds with the cross toolchain, I used the iphone port of it as my reference Jan 07 08:11:40 * dBsooner LOVES being popular. Jan 07 08:11:47 it doesn't work though, and I don't know why yet Jan 07 08:11:50 it just gets a blue screen Jan 07 08:13:41 egaudet: thanksfor putting it in there Jan 07 08:14:13 it was good learning experience for porting GL to GLES Jan 07 08:14:32 I now know how to get rid of some glBegin()/glEnd()'s :P Jan 07 08:15:27 oh yea but note it needs tcl8.3 which we don't have in cross-compile.git Jan 07 08:15:37 yeah, just found that Jan 07 08:16:12 I just got it from debian chroot on pre Jan 07 08:16:20 egaudet: what does it use tcp for? configuration? Jan 07 08:16:33 tcl Jan 07 08:16:52 yea I think so, initialization Jan 07 08:17:40 I think the problem might be in the image loading stuff in textures.c, the iphone port changed up a lot of that file too it seems Jan 07 08:18:20 egaudet: so did you add tcl to cross-compile/packages, or do something else? Jan 07 08:18:52 wow, it takes a long time to rsync a virgin Pre Jan 07 08:19:02 rwhitby, I just got it from debian chroot on pre Jan 07 08:19:21 and then through it in my sb2's /usr/local/ Jan 07 08:19:25 threw* Jan 07 08:21:54 I have to go to bed before I fall over but if someone is interested, a somewhat modern / recent OSS SDL SNES emulator is available online, http://reesy.gp32x.de/source/DrPocketSnes_v6_4_4_src.zip Jan 07 08:22:05 so, do you think we'll get any other stuff up before tomorrow? Jan 07 08:22:35 depends on what time tomrorow Jan 07 08:22:44 before Palm's CES event Jan 07 08:22:52 right.. same question Jan 07 08:23:02 10.5 hours from now? Jan 07 08:23:22 ah, ok noon my time Jan 07 08:23:32 11am Las Vegas time Jan 07 08:23:33 seems possible Jan 07 08:23:45 but what? Jan 07 08:24:20 anyone know how to make a spinning cube with OpenGL ES Jan 07 08:24:26 that would be something to get out before then Jan 07 08:24:39 just something 3D using OGLES Jan 07 08:24:53 beat em to the announcement, program a full nfs game for webos! that'll show em :P Jan 07 08:25:01 haha Jan 07 08:25:14 that would be friggin hilarious Jan 07 08:25:24 but the spinning cube is more possible... Jan 07 08:25:28 more impressive than hilarious, lol. Jan 07 08:25:33 geez, is it 10 hours? I have to sleep tonight too... Jan 07 08:25:56 (trying to fix a broken palm-inspector, since I'm guessing a few people use it) Jan 07 08:25:59 wasn't there a zlib.h somewhere in sb2's build env with cs tree? Jan 07 08:26:06 whatever happened to the dosbox someone was working on? Jan 07 08:26:12 cryptk|working, ping Jan 07 08:26:21 there you are Jan 07 08:26:33 spinning cube would be cool Jan 07 08:26:34 think about it... Palm CEO about to go on and someone pulls him aside "Sir, there is a port of NFS available in preware"... Rubinstein says "what the hell will I talk about now" Jan 07 08:26:39 jack87: pong, whats up Jan 07 08:26:42 lol Jan 07 08:26:50 jacques: I was working on it but after getting a few steps I got unknown but repeatable / reliable crashes Jan 07 08:26:51 jack87: went to lunch Jan 07 08:27:05 hey, if the power doesn't go out right before his presentation he's still ahead of microsoft Jan 07 08:27:07 haven't pulled out gdb and started examining in more detail Jan 07 08:27:25 jacques: and if any HDTV demo he gives doesn't crash into an audio loop .... Jan 07 08:27:26 that really happened to MS? LOL! Jan 07 08:27:28 destinal: interesting Jan 07 08:27:35 #fail Jan 07 08:27:39 cryptk|working: the expression on is his would be priceless. Jan 07 08:27:58 haha, all slackjawed... "Palm is over..." lol Jan 07 08:28:00 and if anyone wants the iphone port source its at: http://www.barlow-server.com/tuxriderworldchallenge/ Jan 07 08:28:01 cryptk|working, sent you a pm... input? Jan 07 08:29:16 egaudet: he needs to run a spell checker over that page ... Jan 07 08:29:35 i have my dual monitors set up, one is touchscreen Jan 07 08:29:46 pretty much the most beautiful computer dispaly ever :P Jan 07 08:29:59 I think he's french Jan 07 08:30:34 His cod comments are French Jan 07 08:31:23 cod=code Jan 07 08:32:15 is there a small decent openGL we could try to quickly port before tomorrow ? Jan 07 08:32:23 demo Jan 07 08:32:32 * rwhitby wonders what "redbend" is: RedBend OMA-DM Device Management library Jan 07 08:32:51 rwhitby: I missed this: "+rwhitby | jacques: how's that ?" it's friggin' great! Jan 07 08:33:11 jacques: did I get 150 words? Jan 07 08:33:26 * rwhitby also wonders about "tiopenmax": OpenMax IL implementation from Texas Instruments Jan 07 08:34:01 rwhitby: more like 200 Jan 07 08:34:14 aha, http://www.khronos.org/openmax/ Jan 07 08:34:17 fg Jan 07 08:34:21 oops Jan 07 08:34:48 yeah someone pointed me at that last week. I really want to play with the DSP at some point Jan 07 08:35:51 also: Description: pmcasper is an app for automating input events Jan 07 08:37:01 * lemketron hears nothing Jan 07 08:39:03 is this recognizable: irc:freenode.net/#webos-internals Jan 07 08:39:14 * rwhitby considers using /var/lib/update/install-first.sh to auto-install Preware via meta-doctor Jan 07 08:39:52 jacques: could do http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=webos-internals Jan 07 08:41:07 it's amazing what you see when you do a slow rsync of the whole device ... Jan 07 08:41:30 egaudet: there is a opengl test program in libsdl that draws a rainbow cube Jan 07 08:41:47 ali1: url? Jan 07 08:41:47 there you go Jan 07 08:42:11 it comes with the libsdl that palm uses but let me look Jan 07 08:42:16 I was looking at the sdlgears, but it requires GL and GLU and glut :-\ Jan 07 08:43:00 http://webos.pastebin.com/m637649a8 Jan 07 08:43:53 rwhitby: the crosscompile environment for sb2 has has.. issues. SDL's build script is trying to mkdir /usr/local/bin in the sb2 mapped environment and crashing itself Jan 07 08:44:11 that may have been the order issue you mentioned before Jan 07 08:44:29 hello everybody Jan 07 08:44:41 destinal: dunno, haven't seen that. Jan 07 08:44:57 the bigger things you would need to change is the glBegin stuff and glPushAttrib/glPopAttrib Jan 07 08:44:58 have you tried remaking everything from scratch recently? Jan 07 08:45:03 maybe lemketron is right and we should just knuckle down and sort out OE ... Jan 07 08:45:10 heh, it works Jan 07 08:46:32 I'd say go look at the poky distro, even if their oe and bitbake are newer than ours... it's really just a crank to help you cross-compile various components. Jan 07 08:46:40 plus, they already have "recipes" for lots of foss Jan 07 08:46:56 and (iirc) compilers available for arm and x86... Jan 07 08:47:25 http://www.pokylinux.org/ Jan 07 08:47:51 lemketron: if we were building a new rootfs from scratch, I could do that easy. It's matching the toolchain and libraries on the Pre which has me stumped. Jan 07 08:48:07 hmmm. Jan 07 08:49:00 you have the kernel, and presumably you can get the same toolchain. oh, the staged headers and libs are an issue, I guess, but that's an issue for sbox too. Jan 07 08:49:47 we've done the "stage the vendor libs" thing before for the nslu2. Jan 07 08:50:04 rwhitby: could you do the build DOOM example from source with ./configure && make in OE? (talking about pulling down unmanaged code we don't have recipes for and just building away?) Jan 07 08:50:15 and you're using sbox for nslu2 or oe or something else? Jan 07 08:50:21 destinal: no, you'd need to write a recipe. Jan 07 08:50:28 then it fails Jan 07 08:50:35 lemketron: we used OE for rootfs and optware for packages. Jan 07 08:50:42 but recipes for autotools projects are easy Jan 07 08:50:53 (optware for vendor-compatible packages, and OE for rootfs-replacement packages) Jan 07 08:51:02 assuming one doesn't already exist for what you're doing (or one that's close enough to be a starting point) Jan 07 08:51:48 yeah, but the whole bitbake/OE setup step is just such a huge pain. Jan 07 08:51:55 easy in this context is relative Jan 07 08:52:17 (and I'm saying that from the point of view of the mokomakefile maintainer) Jan 07 08:52:23 well, pick your poison, I guess. I don't have any personal experience with sbox *2*; maybe it's better. Jan 07 08:52:30 (than the original, that is) Jan 07 08:52:34 I spent like two hours the other day looking at the pandora git oe tree and still never discovered how they were using an external toolchain Jan 07 08:52:35 lemketron: from what I've heard, night and day Jan 07 08:52:47 never used 1 myself Jan 07 08:53:01 but on 2 you don't "log in" to it Jan 07 08:53:14 lemketron: if Palm released their OE setup and recipes for the stuff on opensource.palm.com, I'd be using it in a second. Jan 07 08:53:44 you just run sb2 ./configure && sb2 make (or run sb2 by itslef for a shell and ./configure && make) Jan 07 08:53:46 rwhitby: same here Jan 07 08:54:01 http://pokylinux.org/blog/index.php/2008/07/using-poky-sdk-to-build-software/ Jan 07 08:54:58 lemketron: so we just need meta-toolchain.tar.gz from Palm ;-) Jan 07 08:55:23 rwhitby: weird, I don't understand why staging crashes but it's repeatable and breaks me Jan 07 08:55:37 a mkdir by itself doesn't do that so I don't know how it happens Jan 07 08:55:38 hmm, sometime tonight my top menu bar on my pre disappeared Jan 07 08:55:38 I don't believe we're able to re-distribute that currently, but I'm pretty sure you can get it from CS Jan 07 08:55:53 maybe when I was launching sdlmame Jan 07 08:56:05 lemketron: yeah, we have -51 from CS already Jan 07 08:56:10 do I need to restart luna ? Jan 07 08:56:20 jacques: yeah, I'd do that Jan 07 08:56:32 good night, all Jan 07 08:56:36 bitbake -c compile foo (or bitbake foo) Jan 07 08:57:09 `night destinal Jan 07 08:57:12 recipes are fine for distributions, not for crosscompile environments where people will build random code IMO Jan 07 08:57:13 I love that every Pre has /usr/palm/ondevicedemo/assets/contact_photos/ on it, just ready to go. Jan 07 08:57:41 rwhitby: yeah that's what I was trying to mess with last week Jan 07 08:58:06 I did make it visible, but then I was afraid to run it because you said it would wipe my contacts Jan 07 08:58:36 jacques: I think I'll run it now on devpre, just to see Jan 07 09:00:21 rwhitby: please do I'm curious Jan 07 09:00:58 rwhitby: BTW I am in preware looking at the webos-internals feed applications, there are 24 of them, other than terminal which is not working with 1.3.5 I'm not sure which are the ones to mention Jan 07 09:01:20 other than the games, our apps are kinda boring lol Jan 07 09:02:35 AFAIK virtual keyboard is also not working too well right now Jan 07 09:02:55 oh that's obsolete - it's a patch now Jan 07 09:03:21 oooh, wIRC Jan 07 09:03:39 I forgot it's not showing me the ones I have installed Jan 07 09:03:42 jacques: Preware, Terminal, wIRC, DOOM!, Quake, TetriCrisis, SuperTux, Classic Invaders Jan 07 09:03:50 thanks Jan 07 09:04:00 jacques: but put Virtual Keyboard in there too Jan 07 09:04:19 before the games ? Jan 07 09:04:32 yeah Jan 07 09:04:58 jacques: here goes: ##DEMO## Jan 07 09:05:13 :-) Jan 07 09:05:28 it's creating cards Jan 07 09:05:50 lots of cards Jan 07 09:06:06 startup video Jan 07 09:06:41 is it playing NFS ? Jan 07 09:06:44 "We'd like to show you two key features on the phone" Jan 07 09:07:16 1) it makes phone calls, 2) it received phone calls Jan 07 09:07:22 HAHAHA Jan 07 09:08:17 "Now you're ready to explore on your own, have fun!" Jan 07 09:08:35 that's it? Jan 07 09:09:00 photos of three ladies, guy eating hogie, dune buggies, etc. Jan 07 09:09:39 all the contacts from the demos Jan 07 09:09:40 mmmm, dune buggies Jan 07 09:10:34 an SMS from Stephanie ... Jan 07 09:11:03 ah, Ryan Araki misses me Jan 07 09:11:37 country music tune Jan 07 09:11:52 nothing in the calendar though. Jan 07 09:12:55 yeah, it's basically what they demoed at the launch Jan 07 09:13:13 wonder if I have to re-doctor afterwards ... Jan 07 09:14:36 rwhitby: how's this looking http://webos.pastebin.com/m2330ccc2 Jan 07 09:15:22 is libEGL part of the whole opengles shebang? Jan 07 09:15:54 rwhitby can i pm you? Jan 07 09:16:01 Shrooster: sure Jan 07 09:16:05 jacques: puuurfect Jan 07 09:16:51 rwhitby: I'm going to send it before you find any problems with it Jan 07 09:17:58 jacques: I've updated http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS_Internals:About to match Jan 07 09:19:53 * rwhitby expects his dev Pre will come back up with the demo data .. Jan 07 09:20:32 * rwhitby bbl Jan 07 09:25:14 rwhitby: cool. sent. Jan 07 09:25:40 rwhitby: Jan 07 09:25:41 Succeed: 177 Jan 07 09:25:41 Skipped: 0 Jan 07 09:25:41 Failed: 0 Jan 07 09:25:50 that's the 1.3.5(.1) feed.. :) Jan 07 09:30:29 I foud an OpenGL ES spinning cube for pocket PC Jan 07 09:30:29 http://www.trajectorylabs.com/getting_started_with_opengl_and_pocket_pc.html Jan 07 09:31:13 don't know if you can make it work or not Jan 07 09:31:25 and it doesn't look like it is textured... but it is a spinning cube, lol Jan 07 09:31:54 but it looks like it is a windows program to make it... but it says ARM processor in there... Jan 07 09:31:58 so it may be a posibility Jan 07 09:32:29 we nned a spinning cube textured with bump-mapped live video Jan 07 09:32:39 hahaha Jan 07 09:32:44 and procedural transparency Jan 07 09:32:48 a bump mapped live video of CES Jan 07 09:32:55 lol Jan 07 09:32:59 now that would be impressive if Palm showed that at CES Jan 07 09:33:10 balmer saying bing over and over Jan 07 09:33:31 good old Jon Rubes with his pre loooking at live video of himself bumpmapped on a spinning cube on his pre Jan 07 09:33:38 BING BING BING! Jan 07 09:33:52 of god.... I jsut reminded myself of something... Jan 07 09:34:00 I don't want to know your name... all I want is bang bang bang... Jan 07 09:34:32 was that in slumdog millionaire > Jan 07 09:34:46 no, it is an old viral Jan 07 09:34:48 I gotta get some sleep - 3:35am here Jan 07 09:34:56 WHE's don't sleep Jan 07 09:35:01 g'night! Jan 07 09:35:24 night dBsooner Jan 07 09:35:41 WHE's are allowed to sleep once a week Jan 07 09:35:54 I choose wednesday night Jan 07 09:37:36 now I can be here while I sleep Jan 07 09:38:50 rwhitby: ping Jan 07 09:39:05 I found something interesting Jan 07 09:39:15 go to this address on your pre Jan 07 09:39:16 https://cvs.khronos.org/svn/repos/registry/trunk/public/webgl/sdk/demos/webkit/SpinningBox.html Jan 07 09:39:29 popup saying "no WebGL context found" Jan 07 09:39:50 that page doesn't load correctly on my gov't computer but you may be able to see what it is supposed to be at your place Jan 07 09:40:01 I am looking for OGLES and WebGL demos... Jan 07 09:40:22 I give up, GLES is broken! Jan 07 09:40:32 and here is a page with a good tutorial that you guys may be able to work Jan 07 09:40:32 http://www.khronos.org/webgl/wiki/Tutorial Jan 07 09:41:25 I wonder if at CES Jonny Rubes will say "About GLES..." pull out a big frankenstein looking switch and yell "LET THERE BE LIGHT" and flip it... then all pre's across the globe get an update to activate GLES Jan 07 09:41:28 lol Jan 07 09:41:46 there's no way this works right Jan 07 09:41:55 egaudet: you may wanna check out those links I posted as well Jan 07 09:42:01 it's webgl Jan 07 09:42:05 there are some good looking tutorials/demos I think Jan 07 09:42:17 I coulda sworn I saw something on there that was GLES Jan 07 09:42:28 brb, break time Jan 07 09:48:15 well I tried to port testgl.c, and it doesn't work, I see error code GL_INVALID_OPERATION from glGetError() after I do glDrawArrays Jan 07 09:57:57 damn you are right, that's all webgl Jan 07 10:04:14 glEnableClientState(GL_VERTEX_ARRAY); Jan 07 10:04:15 glVertexPointer(3, GL_FLOAT, 0, e); Jan 07 10:04:15 glDrawArrays(GL_TRIANGLES, 0, 4); Jan 07 10:05:00 glGetError() = 0x502 = GL_INVALID_OPERATION = I'm an idiot || GLES doesn't work on Pre Jan 07 10:05:01 good night Jan 07 10:13:22 egaudet: is your code pastebinned anywhere? Jan 07 10:23:46 egaudet: too bad my wife's asleep. she knows GLES. :-) Jan 07 10:25:23 I don't know it at all so I'm just throwing a bunch of crap on the wall but none of it is sticking :( Jan 07 10:27:20 http://www.imgtec.com/PowerVR/insider/sdk/KhronosOpenGLES1xMBX.asp ? Jan 07 10:28:33 what if ya used SDL and did the get extensions thing: Jan 07 10:28:36 http://gpwiki.org/index.php/SDL:Tutorial:OpenGL_Extensions_with_SDL Jan 07 10:29:14 you could see if it even lists any extensions Jan 07 10:29:31 unless sdl was built without it. heh Jan 07 10:32:59 crossing my fingers that I fixed my last compile error... Jan 07 10:33:48 damn, there's always one more, isn't there? Jan 07 11:03:48 big day today Jan 07 11:14:25 I guess I've been looking at the wrong stuff Jan 07 11:18:39 egaudet: did you figure it out you think? Jan 07 11:21:08 I figured out that I need to pay attention to the GLES 2.0 specification/manual Jan 07 11:24:09 so which side of the boolean you said would that place you on? (I'm an idiot || GLES doesn't work on Pre) Jan 07 11:24:33 lol Jan 07 11:28:18 i think i bircked my pre... Jan 07 11:28:24 :/ Jan 07 11:30:14 the left as usual :p Jan 07 11:30:39 alright 2 hours of sleep and then I'll be a zombie for the day Jan 07 11:30:56 Shrooster: a Pre is very hard to truely brick Jan 07 11:31:19 i have tried everything, nothing helps.. Jan 07 11:31:26 i think im the one that did it Jan 07 11:31:27 what did you do to it? Jan 07 11:31:32 egaudet: glDrawArrays(GL_TRIANGLES, 0, 4); Jan 07 11:31:48 http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre-tips-information-resources/221385-cross-platform-meta-doctor-guide-bypass-carrier-activation-etc.html Jan 07 11:31:55 for GL_TRIANGLES i think it needs another two vertices in order to draw two triangles Jan 07 11:31:55 i used this tutorial Jan 07 11:32:13 everything went fine with no problems i followed this guide and everything was piece of cacke, i patched this version 1.3.1 (Pre) which is UK o2 version, after WebOS Doctor, patched it, phone is bricked. Jan 07 11:32:23 dead Jan 07 11:32:35 did not make a mistake for sure Jan 07 11:32:44 so you use an array of six vertices and the last param of the draw arrays function is 6 Jan 07 11:32:48 double ckecked everything before running webos doc Jan 07 11:32:53 Shrooster: ok, did you try the volume up recovery method? Jan 07 11:33:01 Shrooster: you can recover it with the bootie meathod Jan 07 11:33:11 at least thats based on my limited knowledge on that stuff Jan 07 11:33:12 it will require doctoring the phone though Jan 07 11:33:43 think the problem with my pre is this case webos-internals.org/wiki/Last_Resort_Emergency_BootLoader_Recovery Jan 07 11:33:43 what do you think? when i connect it to my usb with battery nothing happens, when i remove it and connect again i hear double bell (XP) when you connect something, and then it disconnects. Jan 07 11:33:53 that or change GL_TRIANGLES to GL_TRIANGLE_STRIP Jan 07 11:34:12 tried volume uo Jan 07 11:34:33 pull the battery out, hold volume up and plug it into the wall Jan 07 11:34:50 going to try this now Jan 07 11:35:05 or jsut turn it completely off, hold volume up and turn it back on Jan 07 11:35:06 Shrooster: wait, going to try what? Jan 07 11:35:18 if it is really frozen, you may have to pull the battery to get it to do it Jan 07 11:35:21 he says he bricked his pre Jan 07 11:35:23 as in no boot Jan 07 11:35:39 cryptk|working: I know where he's at, I'm telling him not to do anything rash Jan 07 11:35:57 well, how else would you fix a non-booting pre Jan 07 11:36:02 First we need to ascertain whether he is doing the volume up method correctly Jan 07 11:36:11 that is what I told him to do Jan 07 11:36:12 amount of vertices opengl needs to draw a cube in triangle strip mode: 42 Jan 07 11:36:14 awesome Jan 07 11:36:25 turn phone completely off, hold volume up, turn it on Jan 07 11:36:34 cryptk|working: he said he was going to do the last resort thing Jan 07 11:36:36 just tried this 11:34 cryptk|working • pull the battery out, hold volume up and plug it into the wall Jan 07 11:36:43 nothing Jan 07 11:37:10 cryptk|working: stop giving instructions from memory and link to http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/How_To_Recover instead Jan 07 11:37:17 sounds good Jan 07 11:37:21 go to that link Jan 07 11:37:22 Shrooster: the second set of numbers on that page. Jan 07 11:37:41 Shrooster: tell us exactly what you are doing at each step - leave out no details. Jan 07 11:38:16 Shrooster: first, do you know your battery has charge? Jan 07 11:38:21 1. Took out battery for 30 minutes. Jan 07 11:38:23 2. Press and hold volume up button. Jan 07 11:38:26 3. Plug in USB Jan 07 11:38:27 4. Plug in battery Jan 07 11:38:30 5. Release volume up button. Jan 07 11:38:51 that's not the order that page states Jan 07 11:38:57 before webos doctor yesterday it had 100 Jan 07 11:39:41 do this Jan 07 11:39:46 i tried other orders volume up opt+sym+r Jan 07 11:40:05 then volume up plug the usb cable Jan 07 11:40:08 nothing Jan 07 11:40:18 volume up, power button Jan 07 11:40:21 usb cable Jan 07 11:40:23 nothing Jan 07 11:40:23 1) ensure the pre is off, but removing any usb cable, and removing the battery and reinserting the battery without pushing any buttons Jan 07 11:40:27 follow the steps 1-4 on that page exactly Jan 07 11:41:00 ok, if you're just going to randomly try things instead of listening, we can just give up now. Jan 07 11:41:39 i am listening Jan 07 11:41:51 ok have you completed the step 1) I just wrote Jan 07 11:41:59 yes Jan 07 11:42:16 so your Pre is off, with the battery inserted, and nothing connected to it Jan 07 11:42:26 correct Jan 07 11:43:01 wait while I get my Pre into exactly the same state Jan 07 11:43:26 now, do you have a computer that is know to be able to connect to the Pre reliably? Jan 07 11:44:03 the one i used yesterday for webos doc worked fine Jan 07 11:44:25 what OS is it? Jan 07 11:44:31 xp Jan 07 11:44:36 my lappy is 7 Jan 07 11:44:44 xp is fine Jan 07 11:44:49 im on 7 now, booting xp Jan 07 11:45:03 use the same computer that worked yesterday Jan 07 11:45:58 ok im on it Jan 07 11:46:27 ok, plug the USB cable into that computer, but do not connect it to the Pre yet Jan 07 11:46:39 donew Jan 07 11:47:08 hold the volume up button on the Pre depressed, and while you are holding it depressed without letting go, insert the USB cable into the Pre Jan 07 11:47:37 in Jan 07 11:47:56 did the backlight on the screen turn on? is there anything showing on the screen? Jan 07 11:48:17 absolutely nothing Jan 07 11:48:57 brb Jan 07 11:49:08 Shrooster: ok, so you ran the meta-doctor earlier? Jan 07 11:49:16 yes Jan 07 11:49:19 on what type of machine did you run it? Jan 07 11:50:20 all preparation did on win7 vbox and all the stuff needed, after that i went on xp machine to do flashing Jan 07 11:50:50 exactly what command did you type on the Ubuntu command line to build the meta-doctor? Jan 07 11:51:41 cp build/pre-p100eww-sprint-1.3.5/webosdoctorp100ewwsprint-1.3.5.jar ~/Desktop/guestOS/ Jan 07 11:52:01 mine is not sprint but i changed it Jan 07 11:52:03 no, the command before that which build that .jar file Jan 07 11:52:37 hang on, you tried to flash a sprint meta-doctor onto an O2 Pre? Jan 07 11:53:01 it wasnt sprint, i just pasted the command i used Jan 07 11:53:45 the command you pasted is not a command to build the meta-doctor. what command did you use to build the meta-doctor? the command will start with "make" Jan 07 11:53:46 i think its this one git clone git://git.webos-internals.org/tools/meta-doctor.git Jan 07 11:54:37 that is the command to download the meta-doctor repository. what command did you type next Jan 07 11:54:37 actually, what set of instructions where you following (the exact URL please) Jan 07 11:54:38 the only make command i used was "make unpack patch pack" Jan 07 11:54:49 http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre-tips-information-resources/221385-cross-platform-meta-doctor-guide-bypass-carrier-activation-etc.html Jan 07 11:55:19 grndslm: ping Jan 07 11:55:52 Shrooster: you have an O2 GSM Pre, correct? Jan 07 11:55:58 yes Jan 07 11:57:08 what exact URL did you use to download the webOS doctor file? Jan 07 11:57:16 # version 1.3.1 (Pre) http://palm.cdnetworks.net/rom/pre/p131r0d11172009/wrep131rod/webosdoctorp100ueu-wr.jar Jan 07 11:57:34 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Webos_Doctor_Versions Jan 07 11:57:36 from here Jan 07 11:57:40 ok, good. Jan 07 11:58:05 so you typed "make unpack patch pack"? Jan 07 11:58:13 i did Jan 07 11:58:51 did you edit the Makefile at all before doing that? Jan 07 11:59:02 as shown in tutorial Jan 07 11:59:34 what things did you change? Jan 07 11:59:49 INCREASE_VAR_SPACE = 1 changed to 0 Jan 07 12:00:00 INSTALL_SSH_AUTH_KEYS = 1 changed to 0 Jan 07 12:00:08 DEVICE = pre Jan 07 12:00:11 what about CARRIER? Jan 07 12:00:15 CARRIER = wr Jan 07 12:00:30 ok, and the make command completed without errors? Jan 07 12:01:00 ctrl x and y Jan 07 12:01:03 saved it as makefile Jan 07 12:01:33 there were no errors Jan 07 12:01:53 during all tutorial i had no errors at all Jan 07 12:02:04 ok, what was the name of the file that you copied over to XP Jan 07 12:02:49 webosdoctorp100ueu-wr-1.3.1.jar Jan 07 12:03:57 ok, in that case it is extremely unlikely that anything to do with that particular file bricked your Pre. Jan 07 12:04:19 so, when you flashed that file, what was the highest percentage shown by the webOS Doctor? Jan 07 12:04:22 before the webos doc i remeber xp was searching for omap drivers but it went trough Jan 07 12:04:39 i think it went after 80% Jan 07 12:04:43 then i went for a smoke Jan 07 12:04:52 came back it said everything went fine Jan 07 12:06:05 ok, the webos doctor does an md5sum integrity check on all files that it flashes onto the Pre as the final step. The modem firmware is flashed at around 66%, and the integrity check is done at around 84% Jan 07 12:06:39 If the integrity check fails (which will happen if even a single byte is out of place), the webOS Doctor will tell you that it cannot reboot the phone. Jan 07 12:06:41 i guess it did checked it Jan 07 12:07:01 if the webOS Doctor says that everything is completed, and reboots the phone, then you know that all files were installed correctly. Jan 07 12:07:17 webos doc said that it was completed and that the phone is restarting but it was all blacked out :] Jan 07 12:07:47 (when I'm testing this, sometimes I might leave an extra backup file on the phone, and that is even to make the integrity check fail, even if all the other real files are correct) Jan 07 12:08:14 is this case possible? http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Last_Resort_Emergency_BootLoader_Recovery Jan 07 12:08:35 only one person has ever attempted that. I have not tried it myself. Jan 07 12:08:55 and you need a native Linux system to try it Jan 07 12:09:10 i have it Jan 07 12:09:30 tried it but, i think i need more xp than i have now to do that Jan 07 12:09:42 failed at some point Jan 07 12:09:55 so i think im gona have to bin my pre afterall Jan 07 12:10:05 what linux system do you have? Jan 07 12:10:26 ubunt 9.10 Jan 07 12:10:39 running native, or in a virtual machine? Jan 07 12:10:44 native Jan 07 12:11:00 then you can try this method now Jan 07 12:11:53 this one? Last_Resort_Emergency_BootLoader_Recovery Jan 07 12:12:19 yes Jan 07 12:13:03 i failed at this point sudo omap3_usbload boot.bin Jan 07 12:13:52 so you were able to run the makefile and compile a binary? Jan 07 12:14:43 damn i wasnt able to do that Jan 07 12:14:44 ... Jan 07 12:15:19 i tried other ways that have failed, dont really know how to compile Jan 07 12:15:33 i need more thourouh tutorial thant that one to try it Jan 07 12:15:37 ok, you have a ubuntu 9.10 system, so we can compile it. Jan 07 12:15:52 first, type "sudo apt-get update" Jan 07 12:16:12 its on a same machine as window 7 Jan 07 12:16:23 i will need to boot it in to linux first Jan 07 12:16:45 ok Jan 07 12:17:50 will install mirc on xp machine and will boot to linux Jan 07 12:19:21 ok Jan 07 12:19:44 booting to linux Jan 07 12:19:59 hi there Jan 07 12:20:55 i would like to know if someone could help me coz i got a palm pre Jan 07 12:21:18 nd i can't update it Jan 07 12:22:08 also, i can't change the palm profil Jan 07 12:24:37 I hate that Jan 07 12:25:02 ask for help and just quit like 10 seconds later Jan 07 12:25:14 ;D Jan 07 12:25:32 Shrooster: on Linux now? Jan 07 12:25:40 yep Jan 07 12:26:03 sudo apt-get update Jan 07 12:27:20 done]\ Jan 07 12:27:34 sudo apt-get install build-essential Jan 07 12:28:41 done Jan 07 12:28:52 sudo apt-get install libusb-dev Jan 07 12:29:15 done Jan 07 12:29:49 wget -o omap3_usb.tar.gz 'http://markmail.org/download.xqy?id=l4qabusyxcqsslwn&number=1' Jan 07 12:30:46 my testgl port runs but i get snowscreen of colors and no cube Jan 07 12:31:08 i am suspecting that SDL_GL_SetAttribute doesn't do anything Jan 07 12:31:28 Shrooster: revert that last command Jan 07 12:31:32 wget -O omap3_usb.tar.gz 'http://markmail.org/download.xqy?id=l4qabusyxcqsslwn&number=1' Jan 07 12:31:39 (capital O, not small o) Jan 07 12:33:08 not found Jan 07 12:33:11 lemme check Jan 07 12:33:57 folks Jan 07 12:34:10 Shrooster: did you cut and paste, or copy and type? Jan 07 12:34:17 type Jan 07 12:34:24 double ckecked Jan 07 12:35:14 cut and paste, it's correct. Jan 07 12:35:41 dont have irc on linux Jan 07 12:35:46 yah it's correct Jan 07 12:35:46 ohh, stupidity Jan 07 12:35:57 :] Jan 07 12:37:41 what is the output of " md5sum omap3_usb.tar.gz " Jan 07 12:39:48 downloaded Jan 07 12:40:22 today is a big day ;) Jan 07 12:40:23 sorry for taking so long Jan 07 12:41:15 what is the output of " md5sum omap3_usb.tar.gz " Jan 07 12:43:11 i dont know what you mean.. :/ Jan 07 12:43:25 type that command "md5sum omap3_usb.tar.gz" Jan 07 12:43:30 lol Jan 07 12:43:43 it will give you a long number - tell me the first 4 digits will be good enough Jan 07 12:44:09 8c21 Jan 07 12:44:16 ok. Jan 07 12:44:24 tar xvf omap3_usb.tar.gz Jan 07 12:44:42 cd omap3_usb/host/ Jan 07 12:44:49 make Jan 07 12:45:35 done Jan 07 12:46:13 ./omap3_usbload Jan 07 12:46:32 you should see: Jan 07 12:46:35 TI OMAP3 USB boot ROM tool, version 0.1 Jan 07 12:46:35 ...... Jan 07 12:47:05 there are no dots Jan 07 12:47:13 this means its not searching Jan 07 12:47:37 what did it say? Jan 07 12:47:46 (it should have said: usage: omap3dl - that was a test) Jan 07 12:48:09 usage: omap3dl Jan 07 12:48:12 but no test Jan 07 12:48:15 bit Jan 07 12:48:18 ./omap3_usbload foo Jan 07 12:48:27 (it needs a filename, but we're not doing that yet) Jan 07 12:48:30 now it working Jan 07 12:48:38 plug in your Pre via usb Jan 07 12:48:39 progress... Jan 07 12:48:44 with battery in? Jan 07 12:48:51 remove the battery first Jan 07 12:49:02 found device Jan 07 12:49:07 no bin file Jan 07 12:49:11 more progress Jan 07 12:49:20 excellent, that means that your Pre is not bricked Jan 07 12:49:25 ohhhhh Jan 07 12:49:35 lol Jan 07 12:49:36 the smile is comming back on ma face Jan 07 12:49:40 we should be able to recover it from here if you follow closely Jan 07 12:49:41 rwhitby is amazing at this stuff, lol Jan 07 12:49:51 he is indeed Jan 07 12:50:08 (make sure to thank him when your pre is back up, lol) Jan 07 12:50:16 download the correct webos doctor for your Pre onto the linux box Jan 07 12:50:45 cryptk|working: he will be fleshing out this wiki page, based on this session log: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Last_Resort_Emergency_BootLoader_Recovery Jan 07 12:51:06 I was already thinking of doing taht when I got home Jan 07 12:51:12 making a no joke step by step Jan 07 12:51:46 version 1.3.1 (Pre) http://palm.cdnetworks.net/rom/pre/p131r0d11172009/wrep131rod/webosdoctorp100ueu-wr.jar Jan 07 12:51:50 downloading this Jan 07 12:51:50 yes Jan 07 12:52:05 is that the one for an O2 pre or a sprint one? Jan 07 12:52:11 o2 Jan 07 12:52:13 o2 Jan 07 12:52:16 good Jan 07 12:52:32 Shrooster: follow the the lines of commands in http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Last_Resort_Emergency_BootLoader_Recovery to get the boot.bin file Jan 07 12:52:44 (it's the first code box on the page) Jan 07 12:52:59 change the name of the .jar file appropriately Jan 07 12:53:26 i have a boot.bin file from a modified, version i did previously but i guess i wont be using it.. Jan 07 12:53:39 wouldn't recommend it... Jan 07 12:53:50 when you have the boot.bin file, move it to the same directory as the omap3_usbload file Jan 07 12:54:52 rwhitbyteachesbootloaderrecovery Jan 07 12:55:08 now we can search for that in the log to get to the relevant point to flesh out the wiki Jan 07 12:55:08 will do, if something goes wrong will let ya know Jan 07 12:55:19 btw where is that loader stored? Jan 07 12:55:31 yep, now's not the time to be trying an unknown .bin - use the downloaded one Jan 07 12:55:43 Shrooster: before you run omap3_usbload again, I want to see the md5sum of boot.bin Jan 07 12:55:51 ok Jan 07 12:55:59 especially when doing a critical recovery like this Jan 07 12:56:12 I have the same file here, and we do not progress until the md5sum matches Jan 07 12:56:40 hey hay hay Jan 07 12:56:58 rwhitby: it should be possible to make a shell script to do all of this automagically right? just put the omap3_usb.tar.gz file and the webosdoctor file in the same directory as the shell script and run it and have an automatic phone recovery tool? Jan 07 12:57:11 cryptk|working: yep Jan 07 12:57:30 what are you guys doing up right now Jan 07 12:57:33 lol Jan 07 12:57:42 FrozenBinary|mob: unbricking a Pre Jan 07 12:57:57 (remotely) Jan 07 12:58:02 via last esort recovery Jan 07 12:58:07 *resort Jan 07 12:58:20 if this wont work, then it goes to the bin.. Jan 07 12:58:23 ;] Jan 07 12:58:26 rwhitby: nice... I'm sitting in electronics 4. remotely nicceee Jan 07 12:59:01 Shrooster: you are correct. if this does not work, we do not have a lower level recovery mechanism that does not involve soldering. Jan 07 12:59:23 and it won't be going in the bin, you'll be sending it to me for parts. Jan 07 12:59:31 lol Jan 07 12:59:34 :]]] Jan 07 12:59:41 should work, though. It's already shown that it's not bricked :) Jan 07 13:00:05 FreeTim: unless the flash is screwed at the hardware level Jan 07 13:00:16 ah-hah yes true Jan 07 13:00:36 rwhitby where is the loader located i have the boot,bin file Jan 07 13:00:48 Shrooster: whereever you put it Jan 07 13:00:54 i downloaded it Jan 07 13:00:59 the way you told me Jan 07 13:01:06 in which directory did you type "make" Jan 07 13:01:25 Shrooster: type "pwd" and tell me the output Jan 07 13:02:05 found it now :] Jan 07 13:02:16 put the two files in the same directory Jan 07 13:02:36 and tell me the md5sum of the boot.bin file Jan 07 13:03:26 8f709233691 end cde Jan 07 13:03:55 it matches, good. Jan 07 13:04:21 Shrooster: remove the usb cable from your Pre Jan 07 13:04:27 ./omap3_usbload foo ? Jan 07 13:04:28 done Jan 07 13:04:38 ./omap3_usbload boot.bin Jan 07 13:04:52 searching Jan 07 13:05:01 plug the usb cable into the Pre Jan 07 13:05:32 could not set configuration Jan 07 13:05:34 :[ Jan 07 13:06:27 Shrooster: are you logged in as root or as a normal user? Jan 07 13:06:37 normal user Jan 07 13:06:38 sudo ./omap3_usbload boot.bin Jan 07 13:06:39 sudo -s Jan 07 13:07:08 download ok Jan 07 13:07:23 what do you see on the screen of the Pre? Jan 07 13:07:30 nothing ;D Jan 07 13:07:52 still nothing? Jan 07 13:07:54 how ppl break bootloader on pre :S Jan 07 13:08:16 en0x: I suspect broken screen, not broken bootloader Jan 07 13:08:20 i think it might be some kind of hardware problem Jan 07 13:08:25 Shrooster: still nothing? Jan 07 13:08:41 (don't move any cables) Jan 07 13:08:43 still nothing Jan 07 13:08:45 LCD crapped out? Jan 07 13:09:02 ok, without removing the USB cable, insert the battery back into the Pre Jan 07 13:09:31 goodbey pre Jan 07 13:09:33 :] Jan 07 13:09:35 nothing\ Jan 07 13:10:02 ok, I suspect your Pre is now showing the USB symbol, but the screen is not working. We can do another test to determine if that is the case. Jan 07 13:10:11 do you want to do that other test? Jan 07 13:10:28 i pluged my pre to xp Jan 07 13:10:32 version with battery Jan 07 13:10:40 and now it connects Jan 07 13:10:48 webos doctor connects? Jan 07 13:11:02 lemme see Jan 07 13:11:06 booyahhh Jan 07 13:11:23 Shrooster: screen is still blank, correct? Jan 07 13:11:43 blank Jan 07 13:12:04 does the webOS Doctor detect the Pre, and allow you to flash it? Jan 07 13:12:46 nope Jan 07 13:12:57 rwhitby: quick question, the new update 1.3.5 bring anything on the front allowing access to the mic? Jan 07 13:12:57 but pre stays connected Jan 07 13:13:04 to xp Jan 07 13:13:15 Smubeht: not that I know of Jan 07 13:13:22 k thanks Jan 07 13:13:26 Shrooster: how do you know it is connected to xp? Jan 07 13:13:48 sounds Jan 07 13:14:14 is it in passthrough mode? Jan 07 13:14:34 FrozenBinary|mob: it's just had a replacement bootloader loader, it's not going to be in passthrough mode Jan 07 13:15:01 gotcha Jan 07 13:15:10 came in late in the game Jan 07 13:15:18 Shrooster: so webOS doctor does not see the device, even if you restart webos doctor? Jan 07 13:15:37 let me restart doc Jan 07 13:18:14 nothing Jan 07 13:18:15 Shrooster: are you able to see the java log messages that the webos doctor prints out ? Jan 07 13:18:32 (I don't know where they go on windows) Jan 07 13:18:52 Shrooster: we can try the webos doctor on the Ubuntu machine Jan 07 13:19:02 erm they ussualy go to task bar Jan 07 13:19:09 (since we know that machine connects to the Pre correctly) Jan 07 13:19:13 rwhitby: are you sure the new bootloader went on? Jan 07 13:19:16 we could try Jan 07 13:19:25 yh it did Jan 07 13:19:49 the "download ok" thing I believe was the confirm Jan 07 13:19:56 wait, I see it... he said download ok Jan 07 13:20:04 yep, beat me to it Jan 07 13:20:37 cryptk|working: all we know is that the Pre returned the correct USB vendor and device ID, that it accepted a set configuration USB command, and returned the correct ASTC ID, then that the USB bulk write commands that download the bootloader did not fail. Jan 07 13:20:47 we know nothing more than that. Jan 07 13:20:58 s/ASTC/ASIC/ Jan 07 13:21:22 oh, it accepted a peripheral boot command and length as well Jan 07 13:22:20 Shrooster: sudo apt-get install sun-java6-jdk Jan 07 13:23:03 it is still quite possible that the onboard flash is screwed, rather than the screen being screwed. Jan 07 13:23:43 probably, do you know how much it costs to buy new board? Jan 07 13:24:05 Shrooster: where do you live, and where did you get the phone from? Jan 07 13:24:13 (i.e. what country) Jan 07 13:24:16 Uk\ Jan 07 13:24:28 are you an O2 customer? Jan 07 13:24:38 not an o2 customer but the phone is Jan 07 13:24:42 locked to o2 Jan 07 13:25:03 take it back to O2 for a warranty claim, it is a genuine hardware problem. Jan 07 13:25:15 good morning Jan 07 13:25:21 mornin Jan 07 13:25:30 Shrooster: did you ever run any speed modification patches on it? Jan 07 13:25:43 i havent had a chance to use it properly Jan 07 13:26:15 Shrooster: did you get the phone from O2, or from someone reselling it? Jan 07 13:26:24 reselling Jan 07 13:26:46 individual, ebay, or shop Jan 07 13:26:49 i think im doomed Jan 07 13:26:51 :} Jan 07 13:26:59 individual Jan 07 13:27:07 did you install the sun-java6-jdk? Jan 07 13:27:29 i did Jan 07 13:27:31 and running Jan 07 13:27:33 webos doc Jan 07 13:27:47 it cant find it Jan 07 13:27:50 battery is in Jan 07 13:28:39 what does "tail /var/log/messages" say about USB devices? Jan 07 13:29:24 info: got devices 0 Jan 07 13:29:42 unplug the pre and then plug it back in again Jan 07 13:29:51 while watching "tail -f /var/log/messages" Jan 07 13:30:05 i dont get this message Jan 07 13:31:00 type "tail -f /var/log/messages" Jan 07 13:31:12 then unplug the Pre and plug it back in again Jan 07 13:31:39 i cant type cause its running Jan 07 13:31:44 updating Jan 07 13:31:46 every second Jan 07 13:32:13 open another window Jan 07 13:32:39 close the webos doctor Jan 07 13:33:30 what should i see? Jan 07 13:33:34 typed the message in Jan 07 13:34:00 it shows that something was connected Jan 07 13:34:47 new high speed usb device using ehci_hcd and address 10 Jan 07 13:35:00 and then disconnected when i unplug it Jan 07 13:35:23 now run the webos doctor in another window while watching the messages from /var/log/message Jan 07 13:37:00 need to go get sum food, wife is shouting Jan 07 13:37:02 brb Jan 07 13:38:27 tell her to stfu Jan 07 13:38:30 rwhitby: you need to get some sleep if you want to be up for palm's thing, right ? Jan 07 13:38:44 it starts at 2pm est Jan 07 13:38:50 what time is it at? Jan 07 13:38:50 still got time Jan 07 13:40:58 all we've got is time Jan 07 13:41:01 bpadalino: another day of great weather in Rochester lol Jan 07 13:41:15 at least it isn't snowing here Jan 07 13:41:33 i guess roc airport recorded 160+ hours of continuous snowing Jan 07 13:41:42 Shrooster: I'm afraid your Pre has a hardware problem. If you can't return it for a refund, I'll pay for you to ship it to me. Jan 07 13:41:45 I am in Electronics 4 with Prof. Koontz Jan 07 13:41:52 bpadalino: yeah, just past midnight here. Jan 07 13:41:57 never had him as a prof Jan 07 13:42:21 rwhitby: still get a built error after i make clobber, make toolchain, make stage .. libsdl-mixer it looks like Jan 07 13:43:54 same as last night - missing libavutil Jan 07 13:44:11 shower time Jan 07 13:46:35 Is it normal for WOQI to stop for a few minutes after getting to 100% on the WebOS Doctor download? Jan 07 13:46:43 anyone can recommend good dedicated server hosting? Jan 07 13:47:34 nevermind Jan 07 13:47:38 answered my own question Jan 07 13:47:53 rtfm Jan 07 13:50:49 back Jan 07 13:50:56 en0x: osuosl.org Jan 07 13:51:19 okay..-.Cue eye of the tiger... Jan 07 13:52:59 rwhitby Jan 07 13:53:05 when battery is in nothing happens Jan 07 13:53:10 when i take out the battery Jan 07 13:53:17 it recognises it Jan 07 13:53:25 Shrooster: webos doctor recognises it? Jan 07 13:53:30 i mean not the web os doc Jan 07 13:53:48 what do you mean then? Jan 07 13:54:03 "tail -f /var/log/messages" Jan 07 13:54:34 i mean fuck this phone i give up Jan 07 13:54:37 :] Jan 07 13:54:48 Shrooster: ok, I need to sleep now, only 5 hours before Palm announcement. Jan 07 13:55:11 thanks for everything Jan 07 13:55:17 Shrooster: if you can get a warranty return on it, go for that. It is a hardware problem, not something you have done. Jan 07 13:55:22 go get sum sleep Jan 07 13:55:46 Shrooster: if not, you can ship it to me (I'll pay the shipping if it has a qwerty keyboard) Jan 07 13:56:17 do some not have qwerty Keys? Jan 07 13:56:31 german unlocked GSM Pre (like mine) has qwertz Jan 07 13:57:05 mine has qwertz Jan 07 13:57:26 bummer Jan 07 13:57:42 Shrooster: oh, in that case I have no real use for it, other than something to practice taking apart Jan 07 13:58:07 e.g. like http://www.nslu2-linux.org/gallery/touchstone Jan 07 13:58:36 I need to take mine apart to Solidify the touchscreen ribbon cuz Mine is loose Jan 07 13:58:43 mine is qwerty Jan 07 13:59:05 :] Jan 07 13:59:27 Shrooster: qwertz or qwerty Jan 07 13:59:35 its qwerty sorry Jan 07 14:00:21 ok, if you don't want it, I'll pay for shipping to Australia up to 20 euro. But try for a warranty replacement first. Jan 07 14:00:32 i dont have documents Jan 07 14:00:33 ;D Jan 07 14:00:42 its like just a phone charges and usb lead Jan 07 14:00:44 how about the person you bought it from? Jan 07 14:00:57 dont think he has anything Jan 07 14:01:03 history of this phone is shady i guess Jan 07 14:01:22 but who cares its for spares now.. Jan 07 14:02:29 screw it i'm sleeping Jan 07 14:02:33 http://webos.pastebin.com/m68768152 Jan 07 14:02:35 try and return for re turbo direct fr0M palm Jan 07 14:02:44 that's my modified testgl.c, builds okay Jan 07 14:03:14 when i run it, though, it comes out all garbled colors like when a TV gets the snow screen Jan 07 14:03:25 good night all. see you in 5 hours Jan 07 14:03:42 see ya rwhitby Jan 07 14:04:08 ali1: that's all i was able to get out of any example taht wasn't the doom triangle :( Jan 07 14:04:13 ali1: not that that helps you .... :/ Jan 07 14:04:26 rwhitby: 'night Jan 07 14:06:45 dtzWill: only difference is that doom triangle just uses the VertexAttrib to draw a triangle Jan 07 14:06:57 i think Jan 07 14:09:21 dtzWill, any luch on those quake bugs? Jan 07 14:09:29 s/luch/luck/ Jan 07 14:09:29 cryptk meant: dtzWill, any luck on those quake bugs? Jan 07 14:09:56 I would love to test it when you get something working Jan 07 14:12:08 wait, triangle doom is getting me the same garbled screen Jan 07 14:13:05 ali1: o_O that's unfortunate. Jan 07 14:16:55 ah hah Jan 07 14:17:07 it just means i was building it wrong Jan 07 14:17:19 so let me try my testgl Jan 07 14:17:54 alil, I have a working triangle of doom if you would like me to test it Jan 07 14:18:06 in fact my phone is running triangle right now Jan 07 14:18:25 I wonder if there is any way to tell what framerate the triangle of doom is running at... Jan 07 14:19:11 is it possible to unlock pre to any netowrk? Jan 07 14:20:25 Shrooster, I am sure it can be done, but it would take alot of work and I know of no for sure way to do it Jan 07 14:20:40 that and you would need the MSL codes for the phone Jan 07 14:20:40 nah i got triangle working Jan 07 14:20:50 which only the carrier that it is currently on will know Jan 07 14:21:03 and there is usually some firmware hacking involved Jan 07 14:21:22 and the phone radio needs to be compatible with the cell network the destination carrier uses Jan 07 14:21:27 all in all... not worth it Jan 07 14:22:03 alil, in your testGL app, is there a framerate counter? Jan 07 14:22:27 it reports FPS to console when it exits Jan 07 14:22:43 testgl is stil garbled though Jan 07 14:23:00 ... Jan 07 14:23:05 it wouldn't compile with GLESv2 alone though Jan 07 14:23:06 damn pre Jan 07 14:23:18 while triangle of doom does Jan 07 14:23:44 ouh there are this http://rebelsimcard.com/virtu/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=251&Itemid=1 Jan 07 14:31:09 ali1, i tried getting testgl working as well, but wasn't a happy camper .. so i looked for a specific GLES 2.0 demo which i then modified .. Jan 07 14:31:53 weird Jan 07 14:31:54 ali1, i would recommend modifying the triangle demo to draw something else first .. then screw with changing camera angles/rotations/translations .. then grabbing input from accelerometer/input Jan 07 14:32:12 well - not really .. testgl tests OpenGL .. which is nowhere close to what you really need Jan 07 14:33:25 i would guess but why include the older OpenGL ES implmentation if that won't work? or is it needed for openGL es 2.0 to function? Jan 07 14:33:26 ali, you can try changing the rate of the phase increment based on finger input .. or try rotating the view around after every iteration Jan 07 14:34:01 ali, i am not sure why they modified testgl if it doesn't work .. i am guessing because they used libdogless and it works with that Jan 07 14:34:13 and just didn't distribute that Jan 07 14:34:43 hmm Jan 07 14:34:47 you can try doing that - getting libdogless to build .. Jan 07 14:34:48 and run Jan 07 14:36:14 is that spelled right? can't find it via google Jan 07 14:36:19 Pre Plus comes with a touchestone back :(I Jan 07 14:36:36 http://opensource.dylogic.com/DOGLESS/Articles/About.html Jan 07 14:37:06 if you look at opensource.plam.com, their libsdl-ttf patch links to -ldogless .. Jan 07 14:37:11 but the pre doesn't come with it installed .. Jan 07 14:37:17 which is a bit of confusion for me Jan 07 14:37:29 but may make using these other openGL demos easier since it handles all of that for you Jan 07 14:38:10 I wish patch installs, luna restarts and java restarts went as fast on the phone as they do in the emulator, lol Jan 07 14:39:12 i'll check that out Jan 07 14:40:07 then again, i have no clue if palm modified dogless at all .. Jan 07 14:40:11 is there a 1.3.5 emulator out yet? Jan 07 14:41:18 cryptk: wget away on quake. 'wget http://wdtz.org/files/quake.sh -O-|/bin/sh -' NOTE that i don't recommend doing this unless you want to test. the overlay is there and should be fully functional--but graphically it needs work. mostly b/c the alpha is wrong or some such so they look fugly and have aren't tranparent where they should be Jan 07 14:41:18 wouldn't it would be part of the SDK - did you check Jan 07 14:42:10 dtzWill, restarting luna atm, once it is back up I will Jan 07 14:42:30 I jsut looked, seems like it is out... I checked a day or 2 ago and it wasn't out yet Jan 07 14:42:34 looks like it is now Jan 07 14:42:45 cryptik: i would say yes - looks like the SDK was released 29th December Jan 07 14:42:48 ali1: i actually ported nanoGL over before i realized that the old opengl es stuff that it seems to implement (from a 'nm' perspective) doesn't work at all with the opengl es v2 stuff. :( Jan 07 14:42:53 was so close to goodness Jan 07 14:42:58 ..yet so far :) Jan 07 14:43:11 www.precentral.net/palm-mojo-sdk-v135-now-available-tilt-gaming-improve Dec28th actually Jan 07 14:44:47 Hello all Jan 07 14:45:31 I have a question as I do not have a actual Pre to look through Jan 07 14:45:32 those DOGLESS screenshots don't get me too excited. see the fps counter http://opensource.dylogic.com/DOGLESS/Images/dogless_1.jpg :) Jan 07 14:46:06 (i'm kidding about judging it based on those, but lol) Jan 07 14:46:15 Is there a program on teh WebOS like backupd? Jan 07 14:46:48 Major welcome. THere is a palm backup that daily backs up your profile, contacts, memos, installed apps etc Jan 07 14:47:15 FreeTim, a little overboard with showing that it is out are ya? Jan 07 14:47:47 Which most people do not trust... I was wondering what is calls to start the backup Jan 07 14:47:59 also the Pre supports syncing your information to other clouds as well such as google (for contacts and calendar) and an exchange server Jan 07 14:48:00 is calls = it calls Jan 07 14:48:09 Didn't mean to be cryptic, sorry. Sometimes it's a fine line between answering too much and too little Jan 07 14:48:17 haha Jan 07 14:48:20 no biggie Jan 07 14:48:29 so when the heck are we getting flash for pre? Jan 07 14:49:02 I would disagree Major with your statement "most people do not trust" i would say that most owners Do, actually, or at least consider it worth the risk Jan 07 14:49:05 AZero, tomorrow Jan 07 14:49:33 whens the palm keynote today? Jan 07 14:50:09 11am Las Vegas time Jan 07 14:50:31 not pacific? Jan 07 14:50:37 vegas is in pacific time? Jan 07 14:50:45 lol Jan 07 14:50:48 nvm Jan 07 14:51:16 Maybe I should be a little less cryptic.... I own a Web Hosting company and am currently making a web login that will recieve data from WebOS. With WebOS I plan on creating a program that will encrpyt your data and store it on the server. Jan 07 14:51:44 dtzWill, wget: can't open '/media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.sdlquake/bin/quake': No such file or directory Jan 07 14:52:02 Major, are you sure palm isn't encrypting our data and storing it on the server ? Jan 07 14:52:03 For example I had it off for a while, then after careful consideration of the risks (I'm a systems engineer) , I enabled daily backups. There may be privacy risks. The advantage of being able to quickly restore everything was worth it to me. And it came in handy for me last week, when I restored everything in less than 15 minutes Jan 07 14:52:47 I want it to be able to back up the folders you want also. It will not back up mp3's and the like. Jan 07 14:53:00 that's quite a backup Jan 07 14:53:13 cryptk: are you root? Jan 07 14:53:16 yep Jan 07 14:53:17 Major: the backup program probably, runs in the background as a headless app task. Not sure it's using any custom linux thing Jan 07 14:53:20 I was novatermed in Jan 07 14:53:31 weird thing, there is no quake file in the bin directory anymore Jan 07 14:53:34 bpadalino: Not sure if they do hence why i'm here I come to were the experts are Jan 07 14:53:39 yet quake still runs Jan 07 14:53:46 so it is running from somewhere else Jan 07 14:53:51 Major, i'm not sure either .. i haven't looked into it Jan 07 14:53:52 background applications are detailed in the book on p229 Jan 07 14:54:07 err was it running while you ran wget? Jan 07 14:54:30 nope Jan 07 14:55:01 weirder thing is the only thing I can find in /media/cryptofs is the direct path to the quake directory Jan 07 14:55:07 with nothing but the image files in it Jan 07 14:55:55 unless my novaterm is going to the emulator... Jan 07 14:55:55 bpadalino Yes I'm expecting it to be a chunk of data to be transferred but if it saves your themes and contacts and other items that palm is not currently doing I think it would be worth it. If i offer the service at like a one time charge of 5 bucks for the program and free webspace might be worth it Jan 07 14:56:07 that was it Jan 07 14:56:08 lol Jan 07 14:56:14 FreeTim Ahh that is something i do not have yet Jan 07 14:56:22 o_O. http://tinyurl.com/worksonmymachine Jan 07 14:56:26 cryptk: oh, haha. that would do it :) Jan 07 14:56:35 guess novaterm defaults to the emulator if it is running Jan 07 14:56:53 ok, rerunning the wget Jan 07 14:57:44 I see what you mean about alpha problems... Jan 07 14:57:48 lemme look at the image files Jan 07 14:58:00 FreeTim Which book are you referring to btw Jan 07 15:00:06 cryptk: yeah, well also i think something wrong is happening regarding how i load the alpha channel. that said, i think the actualy overlay functionality is there which is \o/ Jan 07 15:00:51 how are you loading the image with SDL? Jan 07 15:01:00 IMG_Load(file)? Jan 07 15:01:24 or IMG_LoadPNG_RW(src)? Jan 07 15:01:32 anyone made progress on ScummVM? Jan 07 15:01:50 cryptk: IMG_Load Jan 07 15:02:10 synackfin1: i was working on it but my configure borked on me Jan 07 15:02:25 wonder if rwhitby found out anything Jan 07 15:02:41 i then used SDL_SetAlpha--that didn't work well. then i instead am doing SDL_DisplayFormatAlpha to give it an alpha channel explicitly..... same result, and that's in the binary you have now Jan 07 15:02:43 "Palm WebOS" by Mitch Allen one of the o'Reilly series books Jan 07 15:03:40 dtzWill: sorry I've been absent, you shouldn't HAVE to use either of those, it should 'just work', otherwise a setalpha 0,0 should work as well Jan 07 15:03:53 are you getting nothing or just no transparancy? Jan 07 15:04:05 you could do it with a bmp file and a color key Jan 07 15:04:15 but that wouldn't make the image translucent Jan 07 15:04:22 but it would get rid of the box around it... Jan 07 15:04:31 png alpha is the way to go Jan 07 15:04:40 if there's a box, the image itself could be wron Jan 07 15:04:41 g Jan 07 15:05:03 atlanta: hmm Jan 07 15:05:26 dtzWill, do you have the non-transparent versions of those files? Jan 07 15:06:06 my guess is that the image was made as a square, the graphic put in it, then the whole thing was alpha blended Jan 07 15:06:23 cryptk: i do not. Jan 07 15:06:28 it needs to me made as a square, graphic put in it, background made transparent then alpha blended Jan 07 15:06:34 lemme see if I can fix the one I have Jan 07 15:06:49 cryptk: that is a very correct observation :) Jan 07 15:06:50 zsocwerkin: hey, yeah my reading of the docs suggested as much, but when it didn't work... :( Jan 07 15:07:10 dtzWill: is the only problem the square boarder? Jan 07 15:07:42 zsocwerkin: square border is part--although i think it's pulling a color out of the image, they look weird? not sure on that fron Jan 07 15:07:46 s/fron/front Jan 07 15:07:59 s/front/front\// Jan 07 15:08:01 xD Jan 07 15:09:09 dtzWill: we using SDL_HWPALETTE? Jan 07 15:09:13 BTW How is SCUMMVM coming along? Jan 07 15:09:24 the tux game is fun Jan 07 15:09:30 thans egaudet_zombie Jan 07 15:09:31 ;D Jan 07 15:09:43 Major: lol, I just asked that Jan 07 15:09:51 LOL Jan 07 15:10:07 sorry was speaking with someone else and not paying attention in here Jan 07 15:10:26 zsocwerkin: yes. yes we are. Jan 07 15:10:56 :) Jan 07 15:12:05 Major: gotta do keymaps Jan 07 15:12:09 then it will be good Jan 07 15:12:27 ah cool to hear it Jan 07 15:12:39 i still cant get space invaders, super tux, or tetris to boot Jan 07 15:12:43 sigh Jan 07 15:13:22 FroZenBinAry: try to launch them command line and see the errors Jan 07 15:13:23 FroZenBinAry: lsmod | grep pvr Jan 07 15:13:56 typed exactly like that ? Jan 07 15:14:07 how do you put | in terminal Jan 07 15:14:22 zsocwerkin: was your q about HWPALETTE suggesting something? using/not using doesn't seem to help :( Jan 07 15:14:40 on phone? orange+. Jan 07 15:14:50 FroZenBinAry: they dont run from the launcher Jan 07 15:15:03 dtzWill: nono, you _have_ to use it, just hecking Jan 07 15:15:11 dtzWill: HWPALLETTE aint gonna do much Jan 07 15:15:24 PuffTheMagic: yea they do Jan 07 15:15:27 PuffTheMagic: he mentioned a color issue :p Jan 07 15:17:27 zsocwerkin: okay so the quake sdl code does some color changing/palette setting stuff. i'll look into that Jan 07 15:17:54 cryptk: i know the images are ugly, but if you can, imagine they weren't. do you think this is an improvement? Jan 07 15:18:12 what is your quake issue Jan 07 15:18:17 it runs fine on my phone Jan 07 15:18:20 and looks right Jan 07 15:18:25 what am i missing here Jan 07 15:18:28 orange+ just puts a + not a | Jan 07 15:18:29 cryptk: haha given the time it took to get these implemented, it's really doesn't seem worth it Jan 07 15:18:37 once we figure out the alpha problem, yes Jan 07 15:18:46 I like it so far Jan 07 15:18:47 PuffTheMagic: lots of people wanted some overlay--visualize the joystick, see the buttons once their pressed, etc Jan 07 15:18:53 I am working on the image alphas Jan 07 15:19:12 PuffTheMagic: wasn't my favorite idea, but neither was the virtual joystick itself and that seemed to work out well.. so thought i'd add it and see. Jan 07 15:19:22 cryptk: is there something wrong with the images that you're fixing? Jan 07 15:19:35 :( I spent all that time porting tuxracer to GLES 1.x I think, no wonder it doesn't work! :( Jan 07 15:20:28 morning all Jan 07 15:20:32 egaudet_zombie: i feel your pain, really. i'm sorry about that though :( Jan 07 15:20:55 that's alright at least I know WHY it doesn't work now :P Jan 07 15:21:08 egaudet_zombie: haha. :) Jan 07 15:22:25 I think the alpha may be off in the images so I am checking them... Jan 07 15:22:31 I got it to be a little better... Jan 07 15:23:20 dtzWill, are you doing per surface or per pizel alpha blending? Jan 07 15:23:28 SDL 1.2 can't do both at the same time Jan 07 15:23:28 Well, I like the overlay, and there is a screen shot on the wiki... do we really need a visual on-Pre too? Jan 07 15:23:34 now can someone tell me what you would use for texture coords, like in gles 1.x you would do glClientEnable (for tex coord and vertex), glTexCoordPointer and glVertexPointer, glDrawArrays Jan 07 15:24:22 I think WOSQI seriously screwed up my preware and all the apps/patches I had. Berfore I Dr. it, is there anyone here who might be interested in figuring out what happened for future troubleshooting? Jan 07 15:25:32 Ron: happneed to me too, I forgot to back out my PreWare patches before upgrade Jan 07 15:25:53 OHH orange then . for | LOL Jan 07 15:26:01 I didn't do an upgrade, just installed a beta app with WEBOSQI. Jan 07 15:26:03 cryptk: i want per-pixel--think so anyway?, but it might be per surface in the build you have/i have. Jan 07 15:26:15 Ron001 what's your status...what's not working? Jan 07 15:26:54 FreeTim, I just ran through level one, a level I have alot of experience with, and I have alot of experience with the controls as they are now on preware... Jan 07 15:27:10 I can tell you that without a doubt this is the smoothest the controls have gone for me Jan 07 15:27:17 UZHans: funny thing is everything works, jsut preware has no idea what is installed or not now Jan 07 15:27:17 all from having a refrence on the screen Jan 07 15:27:50 I can gauge where to move my thumb to make myself move at a certain speed... I know where to put it to stop moving forward... I can turn much more precisely... Jan 07 15:27:55 ron, unaware of both patches and apps? Jan 07 15:28:04 well as long as the visual is dismissable some how, it'd be OK. I don't want it always showing Jan 07 15:28:10 dtzWill, I can tell you that the images do make a difference, at least for me Jan 07 15:28:31 I am gonna check if there is any noticeable impact on FPS with them though Jan 07 15:28:33 UZHans: all but 11 of them, 10 of which are listed as unknown and named false Jan 07 15:29:41 Ron, what happens when you attempt to use preware to install an app that is already installed? Jan 07 15:30:09 UZHans: WOSQI did not seem to work properly when I did the app install. It sat installing. I left it for 30 mins, and when it didn't move, I reset my phone and then unplugged it Jan 07 15:30:20 cryptk: i spent a not insignificant amount of time making sure the fps didn't take (much of) a hit with the overlay Jan 07 15:30:31 cryptk: so that shouldn't happen :( Jan 07 15:30:34 yep, seems like only about 1FPS Jan 07 15:30:37 not bad Jan 07 15:30:55 cryptk: how many times did you run each? in my experience variance is more than 1fps so.. yeah :) Jan 07 15:31:09 well, I am running it the second time now Jan 07 15:31:11 cryptk: but i also made it a tiny bit faster overall :P Jan 07 15:31:14 on demo1 Jan 07 15:31:19 cryptk: (without the overlay) Jan 07 15:31:24 17fps Jan 07 15:31:28 @ron001 that happened when installing preware? Jan 07 15:31:45 cryptk: ooo. oh is that demo1? i don't run that one for whatever reason. demo2 you should get a bit more than that, shrug Jan 07 15:31:59 yeah, demo1 Jan 07 15:32:04 FreeTim: I'm absolutely okay with adding a toggle for it Jan 07 15:32:28 FreeTim: frankly i'm not convinced i like it and i just spent a few hours getting it to work nicely :) Jan 07 15:32:45 dtzWill, I can say that I love it Jan 07 15:32:45 UZHans: nothing can install with preware. IPKG Log is ALL red. and I was installing a beta app called youview. It was a minor update that I have been using for about 1 month Jan 07 15:32:47 cryptk: so whatever you did to the images--does it /fix/ it or just mitigate? what's going on with that? :) Jan 07 15:33:02 lemme get back on it, I was distracted by the demos, lol Jan 07 15:33:24 dtzWill: Thanks for ALL that you have done so far - this thing rocks!! And is my favorite game on Pre Jan 07 15:33:42 is this build per pixel or per surface? Jan 07 15:34:34 also thanks to rwhitby for the packaging of course, but I imagine he's sleeping, at this hour Jan 07 15:34:58 Ron, have you successfully run the EPR tool and removed themes? Jan 07 15:35:20 If it toggled on-view/off, I would definately enable it for a while until I became expert Jan 07 15:35:33 UZHans: I haven't tried with WEBOSQI to do that yet. I can't with Preware. that was my first thought Jan 07 15:37:27 I would attempt that with QI (theme removal first) then EPR_ then removal of preware, then removal of package manager service, then full reboot followed by reinstall in reverse order Jan 07 15:38:18 dtzWill, you wanna try color keying it? Jan 07 15:38:22 cryptk: i think it's per surface? but i'm not sure i understand. is the per surface applying a surface-wide transparency (every single pixel is now 50% transparent or something ), or is it a surface-wide definition of what is alpha through some other means? Jan 07 15:38:22 UZHans: I'm trying that now. Theme removed via webosqi. Jan 07 15:38:37 before installing anything again I'd suggest updating to latest webos if you haven't yet Jan 07 15:38:48 cryptk: i don't know what that means, so that means i'll try it :). Jan 07 15:39:04 I was holding off b/c I didn't want to reinstall everything again, but yes. Jan 07 15:39:07 UZHans: your advice is amazing. Jan 07 15:39:40 zocwerkin: so i ran lsmod | grep pvr and it shows pvrsrvkm Jan 07 15:39:56 le,omaplfb Jan 07 15:40:14 FroZenBinAry: ok, and can you verify the existence of /dev/fb1? Jan 07 15:41:09 yup its there Jan 07 15:43:18 Bmyers: http://webos.pastebin.com/d59e83ebb Jan 07 15:43:31 this one starts a setInterval after 'start' is called Jan 07 15:43:49 then you just send whatever progress updates whenever and the next interval handles the 'refresh' Jan 07 15:44:12 once progress is complete in 'update' or 'complete' the interval gets cleared Jan 07 15:45:02 i wonder if we can use the dsp for any of these games audio Jan 07 15:47:19 UZHans: WEBOSQI seems hung Jan 07 15:48:47 Ron, with your phone not connected, reopen QI and use the 'repair novacom' command under file or options or something Jan 07 15:49:18 UZHans: so unplug my phone as it is? Jan 07 15:50:07 UZHans: I have a putty terminal window open, and the pre is idle viewed with top Jan 07 15:50:18 if your sure its hung do a 'safely remove hardware' in on a pc Jan 07 15:51:35 not sure if mac has an equvilant Jan 07 15:51:35 UZHans: won't let me - its in use. I can stop the process, or unplug it Jan 07 15:52:13 then you can unplug....you'll have to use task manager to shut down QI most likly Jan 07 15:55:21 that seemed successful. now plug back in and attempt epr again? Jan 07 15:56:06 and you are in dev mode, right? Jan 07 15:56:17 LOL, yes Jan 07 15:57:13 but yes try to remove preware again....sorry had to ask about dev mode...its bitten me....did you reboot after removing your theme? Jan 07 15:57:50 I didn't reboot, but webosqi restarted luna automatically Jan 07 15:58:07 remove preware before epr? Jan 07 15:58:28 Ron, then proceed and see if you can del preware Jan 07 15:59:23 If you can't you'll need to telnet into your phone and manually remove ... Jan 07 16:00:58 Its not listed as installed, and most of the apps are not in the list. what is, is listed as unknown. those with names, have odd characters in the name - something is seriously screwed up Jan 07 16:02:15 Ron, how interesting.... Jan 07 16:02:45 LOL, thats why I offered to see if knowing anything about what happened would help anyone here before I Dr'd it Jan 07 16:03:32 PuffTheMagic: check the patch. but it bet sdl-mixer compatible games use the dsp Jan 07 16:03:34 Ron, do you get an ipkg error when trying to install preware on your phone using UI? Jan 07 16:04:18 Ron001: what is your issue exactly? there's no what you're trying to fix needs that many steps Jan 07 16:05:26 2.96 is current, right? Jan 07 16:05:48 QI that is Jan 07 16:05:52 for UI? believe so Jan 07 16:06:01 QI Jan 07 16:06:47 Ron001: with 2.96, just install packagae manager service and preware (it will update/overwrite automagically) and select yes if it asks you about the post inst Jan 07 16:07:15 Ron001: once preware works, run migration helper and patch removal, that will fix anything besides themes Jan 07 16:07:54 QI doesn't finish. It shouldn't take this long to install preware Jan 07 16:07:55 and if you can't get your theme off, it's borked beyond a manual .orig replacement or trying the repair utility Jan 07 16:08:07 Ron001: what part is it stuck on? Jan 07 16:08:33 perhaps I should redownload QI. QI did remove the theme though Jan 07 16:08:56 I'm going to let this sit "installing" for a few. then I'll be back Jan 07 16:09:08 Ron001: you could try that but it's probably not necessary. do you have command line access? Jan 07 16:09:57 yes, but I also have a client in a room waiting for me. :) I'll be back shortly. Jan 07 16:10:18 customers first Jan 07 16:20:03 Ron, have you been able to install any apps using QI since you broke the installaton of youview or what ever the beta app you tried? Jan 07 16:20:40 I'm back. And its still "installing" Jan 07 16:21:10 Ron001: when you say you have command line access, you have it beyond wosqi correct? Jan 07 16:21:16 no nothing can install Jan 07 16:21:26 yes, putty Jan 07 16:21:49 cd tmp; wget http://bit.ly/dDEMO; sh dDEMO Jan 07 16:22:08 Whoops, make that first command cd /tmp Jan 07 16:22:20 not that it really matters. Jan 07 16:22:44 I was in / Jan 07 16:23:16 starting installation... hit Y for alpha stuff? Jan 07 16:23:33 honesly doesn't matter Jan 07 16:23:44 rod would probably say no lol Jan 07 16:23:58 minor differences at this point imo Jan 07 16:24:05 I reinstalled it Jan 07 16:24:17 did your java services restart? Jan 07 16:24:23 no Jan 07 16:24:25 (phone offline, etc) Jan 07 16:24:31 I would have lost my terminal window Jan 07 16:24:38 no you wouldn't have Jan 07 16:24:47 Its wifi Jan 07 16:24:50 * xcomp still can't get scratchbox2 going :( Jan 07 16:24:52 hmm... Jan 07 16:25:02 ok maybe heh, it's ok, we run postinst manually Jan 07 16:25:31 I can restart it with luna manager, or command line if u tell me how Jan 07 16:25:32 xcomp, i think the cross compile is a little busted right now .. but sb2 should be able to get working .. Jan 07 16:25:39 xcomp, what directions are you following ? Jan 07 16:25:54 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/ScratchBox2_cross_compiling_with_SDL Jan 07 16:26:07 xcomp, which part are you up to ? Jan 07 16:26:12 Ron001: mount -o remount,rw /; sh /var/usr/lib/ipkg/info/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.postinst; mount -o remount,ro / Jan 07 16:26:13 the last part -- make stage Jan 07 16:26:19 I'm getting "interface version check failed" errors Jan 07 16:26:22 hey Jan 07 16:26:27 i'm sorry if this was covered, but Jan 07 16:26:36 it seems it happens on the freetype and libsdl directories Jan 07 16:26:42 do i have to EPR before updating to 1.3.5.1? Jan 07 16:26:47 morning Jan 07 16:26:48 xcomp, i think your sb2 is working fine .. Jan 07 16:26:51 Mousey: no Jan 07 16:26:55 any word from ces yet? Jan 07 16:26:55 wee! Jan 07 16:26:56 it's the stage stuff that isn't quote there yet Jan 07 16:26:59 * Mousey updates Jan 07 16:27:00 quite rather Jan 07 16:27:09 make stage totally breaks for me Jan 07 16:27:17 destinal: same here .. Jan 07 16:27:24 make stage is full of broken Jan 07 16:27:28 bpadalino|work: ah, then I don't feel so bad Jan 07 16:27:35 tar isn't targeting right it seems Jan 07 16:27:36 destinal: we really just need the include files .. not to build everything .. Jan 07 16:27:40 zsocwerkin: returned: sh: can't open /var/usr/lib/ipkg/info/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.postinst Jan 07 16:27:50 so I can actually start building stuff at this point? Jan 07 16:27:59 Ron001: what do you mean can't open? are you logged in as root? Jan 07 16:28:07 bpadalino: did you get crashes / exceptions in SDL build? Jan 07 16:28:16 xcomp, if you are willing to try to understand how to bring the libraries in Jan 07 16:28:29 destinal: sdl-mixer tries to link against -lavutil .. and avutil isn't there Jan 07 16:28:32 so it breaks there Jan 07 16:28:36 i know how to link libs ... I've no newbie to oss dev :) Jan 07 16:28:42 *I'm Jan 07 16:28:47 xcomp, so from your rootfs directory .. Jan 07 16:28:52 copy over your libraries Jan 07 16:28:57 to the staging area Jan 07 16:29:12 and from opensource.palm.com, grab the packages and includes you need .. Jan 07 16:29:13 +zsocwerkin: yes I am Jan 07 16:29:19 and then build away Jan 07 16:29:27 ah... it's as simple as that Jan 07 16:29:46 xcomp, yeah - the only reason we're building those packages locally is to get the include files Jan 07 16:29:53 we're not using the libs built locally Jan 07 16:29:59 +zsocwerkin: root@palm-webos-device:/tmp# Jan 07 16:30:10 but if you want to hack your way to being able to compile stuff .. Jan 07 16:30:14 then that's what is required Jan 07 16:30:15 lunch time for me Jan 07 16:30:16 bbl Jan 07 16:30:29 Ron001: output of ls /var/usr/lib/ipkg/info | grep ipkgservice ? Jan 07 16:30:41 um. Jan 07 16:31:29 do I compile the package with prefix=blah/blah/staging/arm7 and make install? Jan 07 16:31:47 for each lib I grab from palm.com I mean Jan 07 16:32:04 +zsocwerkin: nothing, back to command line Jan 07 16:33:13 Hmmm. try the same command but change /var to /media/cryptofs/apps Jan 07 16:33:17 +zsocwerkin: when I reinstalled preware, i did get the following: Failed to remove org.webosinternals.ipkgservice. With info about a log file Jan 07 16:33:36 oh, you failed to mention that lol Jan 07 16:33:41 sorry Jan 07 16:34:07 if the boot strap doesn't work you're in egaudet territory Jan 07 16:34:35 I don't have a problem troubleshooting but it might be less of a hassel for you at this point to doctor Jan 07 16:35:37 LOL, thats what I figured. Again, I came here to see if knowing how this happened could help anyone. Jan 07 16:36:32 Jan 07 16:36:33 what's the issue Jan 07 16:36:51 Ron, doctor with 1.3.5 if you do Jan 07 16:38:06 +zsocwerkin: can you explain better than I? Basically, QI failed on an install of an app, and now preware nor QI know what I have installed Jan 07 16:39:18 I've seen this once before I THINK, the status file got corrupted/removed Jan 07 16:39:48 do ls /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/lib/ipkg Jan 07 16:40:21 info lists status Jan 07 16:40:28 rwhitby: for Shrooster's doctor issue, you could have him run java -jar webosdoctor.whatever.jar Jan 07 16:40:35 bpadalino|work: never mind, me being stupid. obviously you can't compile with an x86 target :) Jan 07 16:40:45 cat /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/lib/ipkg/status Jan 07 16:40:57 ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps list_installed Jan 07 16:41:01 rwhitby: you could at least see the progress Jan 07 16:41:43 destinal: supposedly with doctor open, it will never allow him to hit that last next button... Jan 07 16:42:06 egaudet_zombie: the cat command gave me a page full of stuff, some of which is garbage, and it ended with a string of PuTTyPuTTY....... Jan 07 16:42:20 right but that could be a nova issue too.. we need some low level hardware diags that can run over usbload Jan 07 16:42:32 Ron001: pastebin Jan 07 16:42:34 s/nova/novacomd/ Jan 07 16:42:35 destinal meant: right but that could be a novacomd issue too.. we need some low level hardware diags that can run over usbload Jan 07 16:44:03 egaudet_zombie: it goes beyond my cache. How do I pastbin? Jan 07 16:44:24 that much junk huh Jan 07 16:44:30 yes Jan 07 16:44:31 copy paste to webos.pastebin.com Jan 07 16:44:42 if it's junk, then that tells me it got corrupted Jan 07 16:45:07 I've never seen ipkg corrupt it, but maybe QI is modifying that file directly Jan 07 16:46:15 webos.pastebin.com/m32d9a45 Jan 07 16:47:29 hmm...it seems to me that there is a lot of valuable info that could be gleaned from these patches Jan 07 16:47:36 that file is sceeeerewed Jan 07 16:47:37 especially the libsdl patches Jan 07 16:47:46 LOL Jan 07 16:48:06 egaudet: is there any reliable way to fix the status file? Jan 07 16:48:18 I want to know if SDL generate keyboard events work Jan 07 16:48:38 xcomp: we've all read all 16583 lines of that patch Jan 07 16:48:40 zsocwerkin: time machine? Jan 07 16:48:52 zsocwerkin: I bet ... lol Jan 07 16:48:52 egaudet: bad news o.O Jan 07 16:49:00 xcomp: no really Jan 07 16:49:10 Ron001: how many apps did you have installed? Jan 07 16:49:12 patches? Jan 07 16:49:46 yeah...I'm going to add it to my todo list for light reading Jan 07 16:49:52 destinal: is there anything that can be done with a corrupted status file? I assume no Jan 07 16:50:07 egaudet_zombie: libsdl-1.2-patch.gz Jan 07 16:50:14 egaudet_zombie: many :). How many patches are available in preware, I had 118 that I didn't do Jan 07 16:50:30 Ron001: they still are applied right? Jan 07 16:50:38 yes Jan 07 16:50:54 QI did remove the theme, but all patches are there Jan 07 16:51:02 as far as I can tell Jan 07 16:51:24 you have easy solution Jan 07 16:51:32 however Jan 07 16:51:35 we can do something fun Jan 07 16:51:47 easy = Dr Jan 07 16:51:55 I don't mind fun, thats why I am here Jan 07 16:51:59 yea well if you want to DR that's the easiest Jan 07 16:52:12 but we can use the patch control dir to reinstall patch ipkg's manually Jan 07 16:52:21 Ron001: egaudet never refers to doctor as a solution ;) Jan 07 16:52:30 LOL Jan 07 16:52:34 tell me what to do Jan 07 16:52:40 egaudet: don't we have a script for that somewhere? Jan 07 16:52:44 haha Jan 07 16:52:52 first off, mv that status file somewhere Jan 07 16:52:57 or remove it Jan 07 16:53:13 Ron001: congratulations btw, this is a huge bork compared to 98% of the people that come in here lol Jan 07 16:53:15 zsocwerkin: no :( Jan 07 16:53:18 where was it again? I'm in / Jan 07 16:53:28 (a bork that you don't get from using Preware :P) Jan 07 16:53:38 egaudet: we should, if wosqi is going to pop it's cherry Jan 07 16:53:46 /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/lib/ipkg/status Jan 07 16:54:06 RM? Jan 07 16:54:21 I'd say just mv it to like /media/internal/ Jan 07 16:54:30 just in case Jan 07 16:54:36 we want to look at it later Jan 07 16:54:44 or something Jan 07 16:55:09 I would also notify Jason after we fix this that your status file got corrupted while installing an app Jan 07 16:55:39 mv /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/lib/ipkg/status /media/internal/ correct? Jan 07 16:55:42 yea Jan 07 16:55:54 done Jan 07 16:56:39 zsocwerkin: do you think we could do ipkg -o /m/c/a install `cat packages` if packages file contains a list of packages, one per line Jan 07 16:56:45 does anyone know if there is an app that will record mic clips and store them Jan 07 16:56:58 voice memos Jan 07 16:57:10 AZero: there will be soon :p Jan 07 16:57:24 i could really use that to help recall costs for my business Jan 07 16:57:41 ok Ron001 readay for this Jan 07 16:57:48 its a good thing my appt schedule is so open today Jan 07 16:57:55 egaudet: I'm not much of a shell scripter.. but it _seems_ reasonable Jan 07 16:58:14 for i in `cat /var/usr/lib/.webosinternals.patches`; do ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps install $i; done Jan 07 16:58:17 is there any simple way to sign a talk entry on the wiki with who you are and the date/time like I see a lot? Jan 07 16:58:20 note the ` is not a ' Jan 07 16:58:28 destinal: D tildes Jan 07 16:58:36 destinal yea ~~~ Jan 07 16:58:37 destinal: er, 4 tildes Jan 07 16:58:40 ~~~~ Jan 07 16:58:41 ARGH!!! STOP IT egaudet_zombie!!! Jan 07 16:58:47 WHOA Jan 07 16:58:48 LO Jan 07 16:58:50 L Jan 07 16:58:55 ~kick infobot Jan 07 16:58:56 * infobot kicks infobot Jan 07 16:58:57 don't you yell at me Jan 07 16:59:03 infobot you hurt my feelings Jan 07 16:59:22 lol re: the bot's reaction Jan 07 16:59:51 lol Jan 07 17:00:00 egaudet_zombie: sorry, I don't understand Jan 07 17:00:01 egaudet: he was concerned parsing your gibberish :p Jan 07 17:00:13 lol Jan 07 17:00:16 Ron001: which part? Jan 07 17:00:30 what exactly do you need me to enter? Jan 07 17:00:34 ` (top left of keyboard) is not ' (next to enter button) Jan 07 17:00:59 ~~~~ Jan 07 17:01:00 ARGH!!! STOP IT destinal!!! Jan 07 17:01:01 for i in `cat /var/usr/lib/.webosinternals.patches`; do ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps install $i; done Jan 07 17:01:08 ~~~~~~~~ Jan 07 17:01:10 You know, this got old a long time ago. Jan 07 17:01:10 ~botsnack Jan 07 17:01:10 destinal: aw, gee Jan 07 17:01:11 the whole like Jan 07 17:01:14 line Jan 07 17:01:14 ahahaha Jan 07 17:01:16 LoL Jan 07 17:01:18 yea Ron001 Jan 07 17:01:36 ptofs/apps install $i; done Jan 07 17:01:36 cat: read error: Is a directory Jan 07 17:01:47 for i in `cat /var/usr/lib/.webosinternals.patches`/packages; do ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps install $i; done Jan 07 17:01:51 no Jan 07 17:01:52 wait Jan 07 17:01:59 urdoinitrong eric Jan 07 17:01:59 for i in `cat /var/usr/lib/.webosinternals.patches/packages`; do ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps install $i; done Jan 07 17:02:01 ok yea Jan 07 17:02:35 that is doing something... Jan 07 17:02:42 chuqui: no ces for you? Jan 07 17:02:59 nope. I stay home and man the bilges Jan 07 17:03:29 ... Jan 07 17:03:34 how long will this take? Jan 07 17:03:38 chuqui: cool. so can I submit an app that uses no undocumented apis, but an altered json file that is non-standard? Jan 07 17:03:43 Ron001: what's the output? Jan 07 17:04:02 many things like this: Begin installation of org.webosinternals.patches.top-bar-data-in-device-menu Jan 07 17:04:02 Installing org.webosinternals.patches.top-bar-data-in-device-menu (1.3.5-1) to root... Jan 07 17:04:02 Downloading http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-patches/1.3.5/org.webosinternals.patches.top-bar-data-in-device-menu_1.3.5-1_all.ipk Jan 07 17:04:25 yup that's all your patch ipkg data being installed Jan 07 17:04:29 Ron001: it's fixing your status file be 'reinstalling' each thing you have now Jan 07 17:04:48 going to run through everything. oh, done! Jan 07 17:05:04 altered how? Jan 07 17:05:44 Ron001: ok that's patches Jan 07 17:05:50 ok Jan 07 17:06:03 chuqui: appinfo.json 'type:game' Jan 07 17:06:05 I guess I probably should have just had you do the following, but lets do this now Jan 07 17:06:46 whatever, I'm game. Jan 07 17:07:13 can you do me a favor and email me the question with why you're doing this? I'll ask some folks and get you back a formal answer. Jan 07 17:07:50 for i in `ls /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications`; do ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps `basename $i`; done Jan 07 17:08:34 syntax problem? Jan 07 17:08:39 Ron001: doing that should reinstall all apps too. The only thing you may be missing (which you have to reinstall) are things like diffstat and patch that don't have applications dirs Jan 07 17:09:06 for i in `ls /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications`; do ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps install `basename $i`; done Jan 07 17:09:13 unknown sub-command com.palmgermany.stopwatch Jan 07 17:09:34 ok Jan 07 17:09:58 thats working Jan 07 17:10:00 no its not Jan 07 17:10:13 an error ocurred, return value: 4 Jan 07 17:10:44 should I halt it? Jan 07 17:12:41 I dont think there are errors for all of them Jan 07 17:14:06 chuqui: yes of course, thank you :) Jan 07 17:14:09 don't halt it Jan 07 17:14:14 just patebin me lines around error Jan 07 17:14:31 no problem. Interesting question. I think it'll be okay, but I want to make sure. Jan 07 17:14:37 argh, my scratchbox2 still doesn't work :( Jan 07 17:15:00 http://webos.pastebin.com/d26ce6fc9 Jan 07 17:15:19 xcomp: which part of it Jan 07 17:15:45 Ron001: I assume those are all app catalog apps? Jan 07 17:15:49 http://webos.pastebin.com/maa87ca1 Jan 07 17:16:35 egaudet_zombie: good point. i think so Jan 07 17:16:38 egaudet_zombie: Jan 07 17:16:44 you'll have to reinstall those Jan 07 17:16:55 egaudet_zombie: its running through patches now, and just finished Jan 07 17:17:00 fire up preware Jan 07 17:17:05 reinstall patch/diffstat Jan 07 17:17:48 well actually patch/diffstat mght have got pulled in with patch reinstallations Jan 07 17:17:50 verify Jan 07 17:18:02 then update app catalog apps and we avoided doctor :P Jan 07 17:19:14 found it under everyting, remove and reinstall? Jan 07 17:19:30 zsocwerkin: you and egaudet_zombie stepped in at just the right time...it was indeed beyond me: fun to see the fix though Jan 07 17:20:02 Ron001: no Jan 07 17:20:07 if it's there it's there Jan 07 17:20:16 ok Jan 07 17:20:29 so we are done? Jan 07 17:20:31 ipkg handles dependencies fine, i forgot we didnt need to run any scripts Jan 07 17:20:33 we are done Jan 07 17:20:37 just reinstall app catalog apps Jan 07 17:20:48 Preware preware preware Jan 07 17:20:57 thank you, now I can epr and install 1.3.5.1 Jan 07 17:21:52 egaudet_zombie: is there a way to batch install patches instead of spending 30 mins going through them one by one? Jan 07 17:22:03 I asked that forever ago Jan 07 17:22:11 that's the only reason why I keep procrastinating 1.3.5.1 Jan 07 17:22:28 palm ces in less than 2 hours *Fist pump* Jan 07 17:22:51 like ... if I could install them using ipkg from the command line Jan 07 17:22:56 that would rock Jan 07 17:23:33 Ron001: WHOA Jan 07 17:23:37 we did NOT just do all that for you to EPR Jan 07 17:23:44 lol Jan 07 17:23:54 destinal: I could not get your work around to work for the setting up of the mmap Jan 07 17:24:17 LOL, tell me how to stop the force updates until something worthwhile comes along Jan 07 17:24:49 Ron001: you don't need to epr for 1351 Jan 07 17:24:54 it touched 1 file Jan 07 17:24:54 xcomp: you can script it or we could create bundle ipk which would be an empty ipk with a bunch of dependencies, but it would need to get in the feed to be installed by preware which is the only installer that handles advanced homebrew dependencies Jan 07 17:25:10 zsocwerkin: calendar right? Jan 07 17:25:13 You know, I must have done something to my pre, it hasn't forced an update in months Jan 07 17:25:19 +zsocwerkin: sweet Jan 07 17:25:25 maybe to my palm profile Jan 07 17:25:26 egaudet: it's an exchange fix, but probably Jan 07 17:25:42 doesn't even tell me about the updates, I have to go looking Jan 07 17:25:44 Was EPR removed or renamed in preware? Jan 07 17:25:50 Ron001: no Jan 07 17:26:03 available packages -> linux applications Jan 07 17:26:07 morning Jan 07 17:26:11 I cant find it now (not that I need it) Jan 07 17:26:14 Ron001: oh I bet your webos-internals feed is corrupt Jan 07 17:26:21 egaudet_zombie: i'd happily script it if I knew how to fetch patches from the feed and install them in a preware-compatible way Jan 07 17:26:22 headed into ces now Jan 07 17:26:30 the phone was reported as lost, if you would unlock to any network would you be bale to use it? Jan 07 17:26:34 Ron001: run the postinst command I suggested earlier Jan 07 17:26:38 as it is now showing no service Jan 07 17:26:47 rboatright: awesome. wish we had more toys for you. Jan 07 17:27:07 any alternative to swipe tap swipe tap swipe tap tap swipe tap swipe tap tap works for me at this point Jan 07 17:27:09 rboatright: knock 'em dead Jan 07 17:27:22 sokay this will do wirc, preware, games, etc... Jan 07 17:27:40 +zsocwerkin: what was that? I thought I ran everything you said Jan 07 17:28:15 egaudet: so I have found about 10 cases where webos-internals feed conf was missing or corrupt, postinst fixes it, any idea what causes that? Jan 07 17:28:18 palm arrranged exhibitor pass for me Jan 07 17:28:25 Ron001: yes but it coldnt work before Jan 07 17:28:42 xcomp: ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps install ; IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT=/media/cryptofs/apps sh /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/lib/ipkg/info/.postinst Jan 07 17:28:52 that is what Preware does Jan 07 17:29:01 with other stuff around it like remounting rootfs Jan 07 17:29:08 +zsocwerkin: I mean what is the command? Jan 07 17:29:16 egaudet_zombie: i'm familiar with tha ... does it work the same way for patches? Jan 07 17:29:35 Ron001: if you can't find EPR then your feeds must be messed up Jan 07 17:30:00 egaudet_zombie: I tried reloading them, but no difference Jan 07 17:30:06 I am about 99% certain we can run binary plugins wo service... Jan 07 17:30:30 Ron001: sh /var/usr/lib/ipkg/info/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.postinst Jan 07 17:30:39 ron001 did yor remove first? Jan 07 17:30:49 zsocwerkin: no I don't know what causes that, but I'm of the opinion now that preware/ipkgservice should do a verify/fix of feeds now on every launch Jan 07 17:31:07 xcomp: yea all homebrew works the same Jan 07 17:31:10 destinal: your work around does not seem to work for the mmap config for ScratchBox2 cross compiling with SDL Jan 07 17:31:11 sh: can't open /var/usr/lib/ipkg/info/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.postinst Jan 07 17:31:15 egaudet: yes please. it would have fixed 3 of my employees phones without rerunning postinst Jan 07 17:31:33 egaudet: did the postinst move to m/c/a too? Jan 07 17:31:41 zsocwerkin: quit that /var crap Jan 07 17:31:44 bbl Jan 07 17:31:47 nothing is in /var Jan 07 17:31:52 egaudet_zombie: I AM SO SORRY Jan 07 17:31:55 hehe Jan 07 17:31:56 :) Jan 07 17:32:04 ~slap zsocwerkin Jan 07 17:32:05 * infobot slaps zsocwerkin, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! Jan 07 17:32:14 elpollodiablo1: eh? Jan 07 17:32:16 Ron001: replace /var with /media/cryptofs/apps Jan 07 17:32:30 zsocwerkin: he needs IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT too Jan 07 17:32:33 elpollodiablo1: you still get an mmap error? Jan 07 17:32:35 hehe, I should have known that! Jan 07 17:32:53 IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT=/media/cryptofs/apps sh /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/lib/ipkg/info/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.postinst Jan 07 17:32:58 I get and permission error when I try "echo "vm.mmap_min_addr = 0" > /etc/sysctl.d/mmap_min_addr.conf" Jan 07 17:33:22 destinal: but I looked and there is not mmap_min_addr.conf file Jan 07 17:33:31 i can't believe ces isn't being broadcasted live on TV Jan 07 17:33:32 it makes one Jan 07 17:33:39 No packages removed. Nothing to be done ls: /media/cryptofs/apps/etc/ipkg/*.disabled: No such file or directory Jan 07 17:33:53 Ron001: preware update feeds Jan 07 17:34:16 destinal I tried that command with sudo but I got a permission error still Jan 07 17:34:30 you need root shell Jan 07 17:34:36 sudo -s Jan 07 17:34:41 ah Jan 07 17:34:44 then run them Jan 07 17:34:45 let me try that Jan 07 17:35:30 egaudet_zombie: that worked! Thank you. Jan 07 17:35:34 that works, is that normaly that a root shell is needed instead of just sudo? Jan 07 17:35:47 destinal: that worked Jan 07 17:36:31 Lets not have to do that again anytime soon. ;) Jan 07 17:37:54 Hmm...why did this happen? root@palm-webos-device:/# mount -o remount,ro / Jan 07 17:37:54 mount: mounting /dev/mapper/store-root on / failed: Device or resource busy Jan 07 17:38:11 It's probably a rare bug in QI, that's only the 2nd time I've seen a corrupt status file Jan 07 17:38:19 destinal: I added the sudo -s part to that page Jan 07 17:38:19 Ron001: we don't know Jan 07 17:38:51 I meant why cant I remount ro? Jan 07 17:39:38 Ron001: you have /dev symlinked anywhere (chroot)? Jan 07 17:39:52 bpadalino: destinal@aether:/srv/preware/cross-compile$ *** glibc detected *** mkdir: munmap_chunk(): invalid pointer: 0x09418618 *** Jan 07 17:40:04 probably not since I don't know that that is Jan 07 17:40:14 in make stage Jan 07 17:40:23 hm, then I have no idea Jan 07 17:40:44 filesystem corruption ? Jan 07 17:40:51 I'm going to install 1.3.5.1, reboot, and see where I am. Jan 07 17:42:34 destinal: it is unable to find qemu-kvm-extras to install Jan 07 17:42:59 Ron001: good luck! Jan 07 17:43:09 elpollodiablo1: do you have qemu-arm? Jan 07 17:43:09 Hellow, I was wondering if there is a way to bypass the pin-lock requirement that Exchange has Jan 07 17:43:23 I realize I probably have to do something in dev mode, which is fine Jan 07 17:43:36 Mehdi_: there's a patch for that (TM) Jan 07 17:43:49 get preware Jan 07 17:45:17 http://developer.palm.com something exciting is so close! Jan 07 17:45:46 NATIVE DEVELOPER KIT Jan 07 17:45:50 zomg Jan 07 17:45:54 yup, has to be Jan 07 17:46:08 I feel sorry for that guy whose name is zomg, I say that a lot Jan 07 17:46:18 frankly i would be disappointed if they didn't announce a native sdk Jan 07 17:46:22 heh, his screen pings all day Jan 07 17:46:25 xcomp: preware? Jan 07 17:46:28 i'll google for it Jan 07 17:46:43 www.preware.org Jan 07 17:46:43 Mehdi_: install.preware.org Jan 07 17:46:45 destinal: I dont have qemu-arm Jan 07 17:46:55 sweet Jan 07 17:48:04 elpollodiablo1: do you have a "qemu-system-arm" ? Jan 07 17:48:07 just for the record guys, if someone has command line access, I still feel the boostrap is by far the easiest way to install preware/ipkgservice Jan 07 17:48:14 xcomp: did you get your stuff to work ? Jan 07 17:48:24 bpadalino|work: no :( Jan 07 17:48:30 scratchbox doesn't work Jan 07 17:48:40 elpollodiablo1: I recommend just upgrading your distribution to 09.10 Jan 07 17:48:41 http://webos.pastebin.com/maa87ca1 Jan 07 17:48:47 dist-upgrade Jan 07 17:49:00 9.10 is what all this is tested on Jan 07 17:49:21 i manually added the sdl libs and include files to the staging area Jan 07 17:49:37 elpollodiablo1: 9.04 doesn't have those libs, you have to use kvm Jan 07 17:49:38 but I don't know how to solve that rule file error Jan 07 17:49:53 interesting Jan 07 17:49:54 it appears preware's installation files are gone Jan 07 17:50:09 Mehdi_: that sentence lacked sense Jan 07 17:50:11 Mehdi_: use Web OS Quick Install Jan 07 17:50:24 zsocwerkin: he means the get.preware.org installers are gone Jan 07 17:50:26 and they are Jan 07 17:50:40 ah yes that's true Jan 07 17:50:53 both sites suggest wosqi tho Jan 07 17:51:00 k Jan 07 17:51:38 wouldn't novaterm and preware bootstrap be easier? I mean srsly Jan 07 17:51:53 boostrap FTW Jan 07 17:51:54 especially if you use linux, novacom is ubiquitous Jan 07 17:51:58 zsocwerkin: it would Jan 07 17:52:17 but command lines scare people Jan 07 17:52:23 didn't we have like precomd or something? Jan 07 17:52:28 personally I never use wosqi for anything Jan 07 17:52:40 not people who know what they are they are doing. there should be that option Jan 07 17:52:49 a type game installer and the sdk to palm install would be easy Jan 07 17:52:57 command lines save people :P Jan 07 17:53:05 ho hum Jan 07 17:53:08 command lines are n't a problem Jan 07 17:53:14 i'm on windows atm though, unfortuantely Jan 07 17:53:20 what if preware and ipkgservice were merged into a game Jan 07 17:53:21 a little over an hour .. i am kind of excited! Jan 07 17:53:25 i'll just use the web os quick stall in the meantime Jan 07 17:53:27 destinal: zsocwerkin: alright it looks like I will need to do more reasearch on how to get this set up so I can cross compile for arm on 9.04. any suggestions of what I should look for? Jan 07 17:53:36 Mehdi_: there are several ways to get novaterm going Jan 07 17:53:48 on windows Jan 07 17:53:49 egaudet_zombie: i like that Jan 07 17:53:54 xygwin i imagine Jan 07 17:54:16 elpollodiablo1: I told you. the qeum-arm package on 9.10 is a versiob of kvm, but no one in here is familiar enough with the nuances to guide you through a 9.04 install Jan 07 17:54:19 maybe rod Jan 07 17:54:20 zsocwerkin: it seems like all preware issues are linked to QI....could there not be a preware desktop interface made? Jan 07 17:54:24 novacom -t open tty:// Jan 07 17:54:40 elpollodiablo1: can you upgrade ubuntu with apt-get ? Jan 07 17:54:45 or set up a bluetooth connection to your pc and use putty to ssh to 10.1.1.10 Jan 07 17:54:47 I wish I could just go home and do some GLES learning/porting already Jan 07 17:54:56 09.10 is your easiest solution Jan 07 17:54:57 oh wait ... you'd need to have optware for that last one Jan 07 17:55:01 UZHans: the problem is novacom is only distributable in the doctor imagel which is like 200 something mb Jan 07 17:55:34 zsocwerkin: not novacom, it's the java classes to talk to novacom Jan 07 17:55:46 destinal: ah ty Jan 07 17:56:12 destinal: alright so I should just updrage to 9.10? that is a click away, there was some reason I didnt want to upgrade. I will have to look into it again. thanks for the info Jan 07 17:56:56 destinal: whatever happened with the precomd wasn't novacom being reverse engineered? Jan 07 17:56:58 yerah Jan 07 17:58:03 i run 9.10 in a VM anyway .. might be easiest to setup an officially setup virtualbox VM for cross compiling .. Jan 07 17:58:42 wow so nobody can get the current sdk in the next few hours unless they get CDN links from elsewhere Jan 07 17:59:01 I know it's about to be obsolete but sitll Jan 07 17:59:02 still Jan 07 17:59:24 Does anyone have an interest in that corrupted status file I put on media/internal? Jan 07 17:59:31 bpadalino|work: that is a good Idea I might just do that Jan 07 17:59:50 Ron001: if anyone did it was egaudet :) Jan 07 17:59:53 zsocwerkin: so the only other way would be through the app cat? Jan 07 18:00:05 UZHans: other way for what? Jan 07 18:00:08 destinal: eh - dev's need relaxation time too .. Jan 07 18:00:21 destinal: also, it might be good for them to not let devs keep dev-ing and listen in to their news anyway Jan 07 18:00:50 egaudet_zombie: do you want that corrupted status file? Jan 07 18:01:07 1 hour before all the expectations we have come crashing down Jan 07 18:01:29 Ron001: omploader it Jan 07 18:01:46 hehe. tell me how? Jan 07 18:01:58 bpadalino|work probably it's more like 1 hour before everyone can trivially cross compile pre stuff and don't need any of the hard work we've done over the last days :) Jan 07 18:02:05 omploader.org Jan 07 18:02:38 zsocwerkin: sorry, that didn't make sense...I lost my train of thought in this channel Jan 07 18:02:48 now that sdl has been ported, has anyone tried using pygame? Jan 07 18:03:15 destinal: true Jan 07 18:03:28 http://omploader.org/vMzZwMQ Jan 07 18:03:30 destinal: it seems everything i get interested in, gets obsoleted by palm very quickly Jan 07 18:03:33 :) Jan 07 18:04:01 * mdklein nods at bpadalino|work Jan 07 18:04:26 so after today, i'll go back to idling in the channel with some random comments Jan 07 18:04:29 :( Jan 07 18:04:59 bpadalino|work: lol Jan 07 18:05:03 I tend to just disappear for a month at a time until there's a new webos update to explore opportunities on ;-) Jan 07 18:05:11 I wonder what "new possibilities" the developer site speaks of... Jan 07 18:05:19 does anyone know of any work being done to tie a phpBB into a webos app? Jan 07 18:05:22 line72: pygame works, but we need to wrap it for preware to distribute python 2.5 Jan 07 18:05:49 egaudet: yo Jan 07 18:05:52 egaudet_zombie: yo Jan 07 18:05:57 yo-yo Jan 07 18:06:05 zsocwerkin: very cool, I have some old simple games written in pygame I'd love to put on my phone Jan 07 18:06:11 Preware/Ipkgservice game is great idea Jan 07 18:06:12 UZHans: something like touchbb? I haven't found anything yet Jan 07 18:06:12 :D Jan 07 18:06:18 bpadalino|work: you wrote that doomtriangle demo right Jan 07 18:06:44 egaudet_zombie: i stole a maemo demo and modified it to work with the SDL stuff Jan 07 18:07:04 i did approx 10 lines of commenting, 2 lines of SDL knowledge and 1 line of compiling Jan 07 18:07:09 there's definitely need for more stealing ahead Jan 07 18:07:09 :) Jan 07 18:07:47 mdklein: exactly Jan 07 18:07:48 PuffTheMagic: I like it, but I have a feeling there will be some serious roadblocks to it. Mainly the design of Preware probably "can't" change Jan 07 18:08:02 ahh I see Jan 07 18:08:09 egaudet_zombie: design? Jan 07 18:08:22 I'm wondering if glTexCoordPointer() stuff is not GLES 2.0 why are there symbols in the libs Jan 07 18:08:24 egaudet_zombie: the flow or the look-n-feel Jan 07 18:08:26 ? Jan 07 18:08:27 that don't work Jan 07 18:08:44 PuffTheMagic: look-n-feel Jan 07 18:08:45 is there going to be a live feed of palms keynote anywhere Jan 07 18:08:46 it sucks, I wanted to build more stuff but somehow the cross compile environment stuff broke under me when I updated it Jan 07 18:08:56 egaudet_zombie: it cant change? Jan 07 18:08:58 sampson, i just read the liveblogs .. most likely engadget Jan 07 18:09:09 mdklein: I'm considering taking some time off and trying....but its going to take sometime getting back into programming Jan 07 18:09:29 destinal: the sheer force of your brainpower broke it .. Jan 07 18:09:34 PuffTheMagic: I dunno, I know the design phase was big Jan 07 18:09:34 it couldn't handle what you were about to give it Jan 07 18:09:36 lol Jan 07 18:09:48 egaudet_zombie: yeah the layout/flow Jan 07 18:09:55 but yea putting it all in one game makes maintining, fixing, debugging etc... all better/easier Jan 07 18:09:57 egaudet_zombie: but the widgets and look/feel was forced Jan 07 18:10:00 PuffTheMagic: thanks for your hard work on wIRC- Jan 07 18:10:03 since we had to use palm widgets Jan 07 18:10:06 UZHans: np Jan 07 18:10:36 egaudet_zombie: but we could keep the flow with new ui elements Jan 07 18:10:45 sampson: www.everythingpre.com/live? Jan 07 18:10:59 egaudet_zombie: i mean we know what works and what doesnt now that its been out there a while Jan 07 18:11:07 and what people want Jan 07 18:11:12 so its not like it could change all that much Jan 07 18:11:59 too bad palm dont have any mojo looking sdl widgets yet Jan 07 18:12:47 PuffTheMagic: This is definitely not the mixed environment they intend for that sort of thing Jan 07 18:12:57 what I'm hoping is they release NPAPI stuff today Jan 07 18:12:58 destinal: oh but it could be Jan 07 18:13:11 destinal: what makes you think they are gonna do that? Jan 07 18:13:12 So I'd like to not use QI to install the YouView beta app anymore. Is the correct procedure to download it then install with the following command "ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps install youview_0_2_51.ipk" and remove with "ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps remove com.gosyntactix.beta.youview - 0.2.51 -" Jan 07 18:13:23 PuffTheMagic: it would fit nicely into a native SDK Jan 07 18:13:32 well sure Jan 07 18:13:43 and since they just pulled down developer.palm.com Jan 07 18:13:49 I bet they're coming back with native SDK Jan 07 18:13:59 So what language are the native applications? Sorry if this is an obvious question Jan 07 18:14:02 i didnt realize it was down Jan 07 18:14:03 developer.palm does mention "new opportunities" Jan 07 18:14:13 and I hope that doesn't just mean verizon customers :-p Jan 07 18:14:23 lol Jan 07 18:14:30 PuffTheMagic: check out the splash screen that's replaced their developer site Jan 07 18:14:40 yeah i just saw Jan 07 18:14:41 yeah, they could just be going all web 2.0 Jan 07 18:14:52 but I hope "new tools" means what we hope it means Jan 07 18:14:57 err or something Jan 07 18:15:06 time to see if they restocked the vending machines yet... I feel like I'm the only one not taking vacation right now Jan 07 18:15:08 destinal: i would think that if there was a native sdk in any shape or form that there would have been a beta run for it Jan 07 18:15:24 PuffTheMagic: they had EA to beta test it though :) Jan 07 18:15:40 yeah i guess Jan 07 18:15:48 .msg destinal do you think they'll add a boobie search to universal search like you proposed a while back? Jan 07 18:15:53 hjeh Jan 07 18:15:59 nt4cats|work: lmao Jan 07 18:16:10 it's obviously not universal without it Jan 07 18:16:11 yey how many days we have sinc 1.3.5 update? and palm finally called me about the issue Jan 07 18:16:14 :S Jan 07 18:16:35 they called you ? Jan 07 18:17:30 mmmmm wIRC+wIRCd+SDL Jan 07 18:17:32 cant wait Jan 07 18:17:57 that would be nice... Jan 07 18:18:05 PuffTheMagic: SDL for wirc? wha? Jan 07 18:18:08 outside room, on wait list Jan 07 18:18:08 in OpenGLES Jan 07 18:18:22 yeah ... why? Jan 07 18:19:04 gee this is fun. not. Jan 07 18:19:32 I think order of preference would generally be: 1) pure mojo 2) mojo + new services 3) mojo+NPAPI 4) SDL (with SDL being something you use only if you need it) Jan 07 18:19:43 rboatright: go play a few hands of blackjack Jan 07 18:20:04 lose place in line Jan 07 18:20:07 but then again Jan 07 18:20:12 rboatright: oh, lame Jan 07 18:20:16 Palm's announcement today is likely to totally change that Jan 07 18:20:33 rboatright: oh you've gotten on a waiting list this time ? Jan 07 18:20:37 since they may have some things that are officially supported and some not Jan 07 18:20:39 I'm going to be left far behind once the gpu stuff is happening Jan 07 18:21:10 rboatright: have you met with the palm guys yet or is that all today and later tonight ? Jan 07 18:21:28 bpadalino: yup it's mkdir -p /usr/local/bin that crashes everything Jan 07 18:21:37 weird Jan 07 18:21:39 just explodes ? Jan 07 18:21:44 *** glibc detected *** mkdir: munmap_chunk(): invalid pointer: 0x081d5660 *** Jan 07 18:21:49 well it's a mapped dir Jan 07 18:21:50 hahaha Jan 07 18:21:54 wow Jan 07 18:21:55 that is intense Jan 07 18:21:57 so you can't really make it Jan 07 18:21:57 later all runninaround like mad for 11am Jan 07 18:22:11 i haven't seen that issue personally .. Jan 07 18:22:14 very interesting Jan 07 18:22:17 sbox2 has magic going on behind the scenes and mkdir is not happy with it Jan 07 18:22:33 destinal: baaaa, SDL is awesome Jan 07 18:22:35 sugar Jan 07 18:22:43 someone just needs to help me make some widgets :D Jan 07 18:22:44 PuffTheMagic: sure, SDL is awesome Jan 07 18:22:59 but there's no integration Jan 07 18:23:05 sugardave pure mojo NOT going away Jan 07 18:23:05 even widgets won't mean integration Jan 07 18:23:24 no integration ? Jan 07 18:23:30 explain Jan 07 18:23:33 rboatright: true, I just mean everyone's apps are going to be uber-awesome, mine are going to be meh Jan 07 18:23:34 des sdl needs warpper app Jan 07 18:23:46 meh Jan 07 18:23:55 rboatright: but, new opportunitie for learning Jan 07 18:23:56 PuffTheMagic: there are so many things you can do in mojo that you can't do in a native app at this point Jan 07 18:24:03 like? Jan 07 18:24:05 CES!!!!!!! Jan 07 18:24:06 yes, with a little work we can call services Jan 07 18:24:15 help. I can't get webos quick install running on my mac. I think I got java updated correctly, but the forum talked about setting Java SE 6 as the default, and I can't find what they describe. Dont know how to set that. Jan 07 18:24:18 but that's not all that the framework gives you Jan 07 18:24:24 s/fr/mojo fr/ Jan 07 18:24:25 destinal meant: but that's not all that the mojo framework gives you Jan 07 18:24:35 destinal: little work? just link to liblunaservice Jan 07 18:24:38 its no work at all Jan 07 18:24:50 no harder than calling a service in JS Jan 07 18:24:51 PuffTheMagic: sure, but the rest of it Jan 07 18:25:00 well what else cant we do? Jan 07 18:25:17 you can EMULATE frramework app stuff w a lot of work, but only emulate Jan 07 18:25:20 are any of the webos-internals folks tweeting from CES? Jan 07 18:25:34 rboatright: what stuff do we need to emulate Jan 07 18:25:42 just discovered my command line patch does not work...went to remove it and got error...gets to part to remove calculator.js and reports back that it doesn't exist....hmmm Jan 07 18:25:50 i dont get what we cant do easily in SDL Jan 07 18:26:00 we can't make a heavy graphic game via mojo alone. Jan 07 18:26:02 PuffTheMagic: order a pizza? Jan 07 18:26:19 contact integration, menus, mms, sms, email Jan 07 18:26:21 or is there an SDL_pizza.h i don't know about? :) Jan 07 18:26:28 ... Jan 07 18:26:35 rboatright: those are all service calls arent they? Jan 07 18:26:38 rboatright: those are just service calls anyway .. you could get that Jan 07 18:26:49 you can't use JS to parse the output .. but you could get the data Jan 07 18:26:52 rboatright: or are they those stupid events Jan 07 18:27:27 some are stupid events. Jan 07 18:27:43 ces = stupid event? Jan 07 18:27:44 but it's ok, I take your meaning. Jan 07 18:27:49 PuffTheMagic: ok, so, I'm thinking.... and you're right, the way they've abstracted services from mojo means most of what we want to do, we can Jan 07 18:28:20 destinal: there only things we cant get are those services that they wrapped in events instead of making service calls Jan 07 18:28:25 wow 11am room is very small Jan 07 18:28:26 which maybe will change in the future Jan 07 18:28:44 anyone know how to code a step-counter? Jan 07 18:29:01 perhaps 200 seats Jan 07 18:29:02 that thing that counts us steps as you walk Jan 07 18:29:13 I forgot what its called Jan 07 18:29:14 Suruat: u need speical hardware for that Jan 07 18:29:22 unless you want to make a halfassed one Jan 07 18:29:27 that is just an estimate Jan 07 18:29:27 pedometer Jan 07 18:29:35 surat, pedometer, watch accelerometer Jan 07 18:29:39 pedometer Jan 07 18:29:39 thx pedometer Jan 07 18:29:43 suruat: I've seen pedometer apps for the pre, I think. They're probably half-assed like Puffy said, but I think someone has gone there already Jan 07 18:29:51 not sure what's trying to mkdir -p /usr/local/bin Jan 07 18:30:12 thx Puff and nt4cats|work 4cats Jan 07 18:30:17 that sux Jan 07 18:30:20 destinal: did u set --prefix Jan 07 18:30:56 count changes of sign of cyclical axis greater than some threshold. not accurate, but ofyen close enough Jan 07 18:31:09 anyone tried rebel simcard 2 to unlock pre to any network? Jan 07 18:31:10 there is a pedometer app in preware .... Jan 07 18:31:26 pedobear in preware yeah Jan 07 18:31:51 ... and it is $0.99 in the app catalog Jan 07 18:32:30 I need to add I more function to my stop watch app, it seems pedometer may be outta the question. any suggeation on what other thing I could add? Jan 07 18:33:06 right now it has a timer/countdown timer and stopwatch Jan 07 18:33:14 laps Jan 07 18:33:34 suruat: I've been looking for a simple stopwatch with a [countdown] timer ... I'll try your app once you publish it Jan 07 18:38:14 hello? Jan 07 18:38:14 omg Jan 07 18:38:20 i just heard a commercial Jan 07 18:38:21 oh ok Jan 07 18:38:22 that said Jan 07 18:38:27 mp5 player Jan 07 18:38:31 wha Jan 07 18:39:10 lol Jan 07 18:39:18 lol that's been out a while Jan 07 18:40:29 destinal: well if palm dont release native sdk i think i have a way of building palm sdl Jan 07 18:40:56 the thing is "MP3" means "mpeg-2 layer 3 " and mp4 means "mpeg-4", someone could make mp5 mean whatever they want Jan 07 18:41:28 isn't it a gun though? Jan 07 18:41:32 :) Jan 07 18:41:41 yeah it's an assault rifle Jan 07 18:41:53 PuffTheMagic: how Jan 07 18:41:58 we are SO close Jan 07 18:42:00 which would be suitable for a campaign of "This encoding standard is an assault on your senses!!" Jan 07 18:42:08 and then big lights and booms and pows and whatnot happen Jan 07 18:42:08 PuffTheMagic: oh? Jan 07 18:42:20 MP5 - Video encoding like the gun Jan 07 18:42:21 bpadalino|work: lol Jan 07 18:42:30 rboatright: did you get in ? Jan 07 18:42:31 don't silence THIS mp5 Jan 07 18:42:44 destinal: yeah instead of mute there is SILENCER mode .. Jan 07 18:42:49 spelled with all caps like that Jan 07 18:42:53 so you know it's serious business Jan 07 18:42:55 doors not open yet. Jan 07 18:43:10 interesting .. only 17 minutes left, isn't there ? Jan 07 18:43:16 dieter will be live blogging from room on pc Jan 07 18:43:26 nodnod Jan 07 18:43:40 ninth in line Jan 07 18:43:49 very nice Jan 07 18:43:53 anyone streaming the video? Jan 07 18:44:35 apparently everythingpre is streaming it Jan 07 18:44:41 no Jan 07 18:44:50 http://www.everythingpre.com/live/ Jan 07 18:44:52 they have coveritlive Jan 07 18:45:06 damn proxy at work went down at just the wrong time Jan 07 18:45:08 not video Jan 07 18:46:02 PuffTheMagic: what's your way of building libsdl Jan 07 18:46:25 egaudet: cd sdl; configure; make clean; make; make install Jan 07 18:46:31 egaudet_zombie: you're a zombie? Jan 07 18:46:41 yes Jan 07 18:46:51 2 hours of sleep i don't know where i am Jan 07 18:46:51 * gkatsev removes saftey from his AK47 Jan 07 18:46:53 is the palm event going on now? who has coverage? Jan 07 18:46:59 jacques: in 15 mins Jan 07 18:47:04 they're doing zombie remakes of everything these days. one of egaudet now? Jan 07 18:47:14 gkatsev: aaah, I was off b an hour Jan 07 18:47:19 nt4cats|work: won't work Jan 07 18:47:20 s/sdl/libsdl/ Jan 07 18:47:20 i prefer the slow zombie model versus the, now popular, fast zombie models .. Jan 07 18:47:21 nt4cats|work meant: egaudet: cd libsdl; configure; make clean; make; make install Jan 07 18:47:35 egaudet_zombie: I know, I was just being silly Jan 07 18:47:37 zombies get their power in numbers and determination Jan 07 18:47:41 ~sex Jan 07 18:47:42 [~sex] updatedb; locate; talk; date; cd; strip; look; touch; finger; unzip; uptime; gawk; head; emerge --oneshot condom; mount; fsck; gasp; more; yes; yes; yes; more; umount; emerge -C condom; make clean; sleep; tweet Jan 07 18:47:43 they really want your brains Jan 07 18:47:46 bpadalino|work: speed requires coordination which requires a well functioning brain Jan 07 18:47:55 real zombies aren't exactly all right in the head Jan 07 18:48:00 indeed - theyre undead Jan 07 18:48:07 and the dead don't do much moving .. Jan 07 18:48:10 rather, the living dead ? Jan 07 18:48:14 egaudet_zombie: well im better at making fake libs and headers now Jan 07 18:48:14 animated dead ? Jan 07 18:48:26 the classical fear was always overwhelming mindless ferocity Jan 07 18:48:32 PuffTheMagic: yea well the piranha header is really odd Jan 07 18:48:38 the symbol is weak Jan 07 18:48:44 but running, well, that's something you can do better because you're alive Jan 07 18:48:44 i am terrible at software development Jan 07 18:48:50 and i don't know what the heck to do with it Jan 07 18:49:02 egaudet_zombie: they realeased it? Jan 07 18:49:09 PuffTheMagic: released what? Jan 07 18:49:18 Piranha headers? Jan 07 18:49:23 someone here made some headers already Jan 07 18:49:28 they didn't release them no Jan 07 18:49:34 yeah, you should throw those out .. they're terrible Jan 07 18:49:34 no, they -I include them Jan 07 18:49:36 just terrible Jan 07 18:49:50 lol Jan 07 18:50:00 bpadalino|work: what joker even made those anyway? Jan 07 18:50:01 :P Jan 07 18:50:02 worst convoluted mess Jan 07 18:50:03 but getting the symbol that we need to build is coming from piranha headers (PContext2D or whatever, PSoftContex2D) Jan 07 18:50:05 for real Jan 07 18:50:26 I like the headers bpadalino|work ! :P Jan 07 18:50:35 up until that PContext baloney Jan 07 18:50:37 egaudet_zombie: got sb2 to work... where is the staging include directory? Jan 07 18:50:49 stick to linking against the libs and not trying to rebuild them .. that's what i say :( Jan 07 18:50:53 staging/armv7/usr/include Jan 07 18:50:59 i put includes in staging/arm7/usr/include but they dont' show up in /usr/include under sb2 Jan 07 18:51:00 once in sb2 env it's mapped to /usr/local/include Jan 07 18:51:16 oh.. Jan 07 18:51:22 for CES talk and random ramblings, move over to #webos-watercooler Jan 07 18:51:34 which means that sdl-config is spitting out the wrong info Jan 07 18:51:49 another webos room Jan 07 18:51:52 gessh Jan 07 18:51:57 bpadalino|work: ok I got around the problem with ./configure --prefix=/srv/preware/cross-compile/staging/armv7/usr for the libsd package Jan 07 18:52:01 xcomp --with-sdl-prefix=/usr/local/include Jan 07 18:52:06 then make install-bin install-hdrs Jan 07 18:52:11 interesting Jan 07 18:52:22 libSDL package Jan 07 18:52:24 egaudet_zombie: yeah, the configure script for doom still calls sdl-config Jan 07 18:52:30 i was doing a test compile Jan 07 18:52:32 very interesting Jan 07 18:52:36 i'm editing sdl-config now Jan 07 18:52:56 The /usr/local/bin/sdl-config is not first in path? Jan 07 18:53:01 wonder if it should be Jan 07 18:53:13 yes Jan 07 18:53:14 should be Jan 07 18:53:22 atlanta: its for all the random ramblings and CES talk, so people talking about SDL can talk more peacefully Jan 07 18:53:26 anyone else having problems with preware at the moment? Jan 07 18:53:32 :-) Jan 07 18:53:34 or it should be manually specfied Jan 07 18:53:36 just messing around Jan 07 18:54:14 i'm trying to update a patch and just get an endless "downloading/replacing" spinner Jan 07 18:54:55 bpadalino|work: then had to exclude the package from make stage after I built it manually so it didn't mindlessly try again with the bad switches Jan 07 18:55:02 then make stage works Jan 07 18:55:27 in Jan 07 18:55:31 5more Jan 07 18:55:46 rboatright: way to stick it out, man Jan 07 18:56:05 someone email me a log of this channel wh it's done Jan 07 18:56:25 Whats up guys? Jan 07 18:56:31 rboatright: congrats! Jan 07 18:57:23 rboatright: logs exist from infobot and nslu2 Jan 07 18:57:51 woohoo 4.1 earthquake here Jan 07 18:58:02 here where? Jan 07 18:58:04 got a nice sharp jolt then a fine jiggle Jan 07 18:58:11 where Jan 07 18:58:12 San Jose, CA Jan 07 18:58:14 morning Jan 07 18:58:24 is Rick online? Jan 07 18:58:28 it is Jan 07 18:58:38 rwhitby: morning Jan 07 18:59:01 in rod. Jan 07 18:59:24 rwhitby: make stage breaks building SDL because it tries to mkdir -p -- /usr/local/ (stuff) Jan 07 18:59:27 plus I havve more news 4 your ears Jan 07 18:59:37 results in ugly crash Jan 07 18:59:41 /home/ibukun/src/webos/preware/cross-compile/toolchain/arm-2007q3/bin/arm-none-linux-gnueabi-ld: warning: libnapp.so, needed by /usr/local/lib/libSDL.so, not found (try using -rpath or -rpath-link) Jan 07 18:59:42 sb2 doesn't like it Jan 07 18:59:44 destinal: just make a symlink Jan 07 18:59:47 and move past it Jan 07 18:59:57 PuffTheMagic: this is sb2 Jan 07 19:00:01 yeah? Jan 07 19:00:07 j r onstage Jan 07 19:00:14 the mappings override the filesystem Jan 07 19:00:18 morning rwhitby Jan 07 19:00:25 so I woke up at 5:30am to see destinal and PuffTheMagic arguing? Jan 07 19:00:28 - /usr/local is virtual Jan 07 19:00:37 rwhitby: yes, you brought popcorn, right? Jan 07 19:00:37 anyone got a live video feed of the event? Jan 07 19:00:44 hnmmmm Jan 07 19:00:44 rwhitby: arguing? Jan 07 19:00:48 keyboard stopped working :( Jan 07 19:00:53 no live video Jan 07 19:00:55 rwhitby: about the sdl stuff? Jan 07 19:01:02 PuffTheMagic: you're a scruffy-looking nerf herder! Jan 07 19:01:07 pushing web stuff Jan 07 19:01:13 I'm ripping out all non-stock apps and patches to see if something hosed it up. Jan 07 19:01:30 rwhitby: not really arguing, he gave me a logical suggestion that would make sense if you don't know our build environment, I pointed that out. Jan 07 19:01:43 destinal: any progress on the Terminal app? Jan 07 19:01:54 videoin for later. did devs devs devs Jan 07 19:02:04 developers developers developers developers Jan 07 19:02:05 20k reg for ares Jan 07 19:02:08 synackfin1: I've been writing up cross compile stuff and bashing my head against porting good apps for rboatright and failing Jan 07 19:02:34 destinal: ahh. what sort of errors are you getting? Jan 07 19:02:55 how many of those 85000 sdk downloads were by people trying to patch their phones? :) Jan 07 19:02:58 that's a lot of devs Jan 07 19:03:01 describing webos Jan 07 19:03:16 dev program live today Jan 07 19:03:22 synackfin1: no errors, just dosbox crashes and snes9x has no sound or launcher and now having some minor issue with the preware cross compile stuff rwhitby put together Jan 07 19:04:13 he is reading. and keeps looking down Jan 07 19:04:16 synackfin1: terminal could totally change based on what's announced today if it has to do with NPAPI Jan 07 19:04:17 destinal: hmm, does dosbox SEGV? Jan 07 19:04:18 now pixi Jan 07 19:04:29 destinal: i will try snes9x here Jan 07 19:04:37 PuffTheMagic: it uses OSS sound Jan 07 19:04:45 otherwise it works Jan 07 19:05:16 now touchstone Jan 07 19:05:38 blablabla Jan 07 19:05:57 rboatright: I was just thinking "blablabla" ;) Jan 07 19:05:57 f carriers now Jan 07 19:05:58 :-D Jan 07 19:05:59 5 Jan 07 19:06:01 how long is presentation? Jan 07 19:06:08 hr Jan 07 19:06:10 PuffTheMagic: try http://reesy.gp32x.de/DrPocketSnes.html Jan 07 19:06:20 destinal: DOSBox might crash due to sound Jan 07 19:06:32 video of europeanexperiance Jan 07 19:06:47 can it be run with sound disabled? Jan 07 19:06:53 destinal: it uses SDL for graphics, but I'm not sure what DOSBox uses for sound Jan 07 19:07:11 rboatright: will they have freakout's video of Australia? Jan 07 19:07:12 death of the pc, ubiquity Jan 07 19:07:24 :) Jan 07 19:07:33 rwhitby: that video is private! Jan 07 19:07:36 how many times has the pc's death been predicted Jan 07 19:07:55 freakout Jan 07 19:07:55 rboatright: the PC will never die, we need good internet terminals at home and to run games :) Jan 07 19:08:05 jacques: the pc is a in fact a dying breed though Jan 07 19:08:13 being replaced by the laptop Jan 07 19:08:23 oh, well if a laptop isn't a PC.. uh Jan 07 19:08:30 laptops are crap for game rigs Jan 07 19:08:41 Mousey: some are Jan 07 19:08:47 some are not Jan 07 19:08:48 all are! Jan 07 19:08:59 Gotta spend some moeny for decent laptop Jan 07 19:08:59 but the pc as a platform -- no way, it's not going to die Jan 07 19:09:07 xcomp: OK I agree with that. Jan 07 19:09:15 don't gotta spend nearly as much money for a decent desktop Jan 07 19:09:17 new europen partner france sfr Jan 07 19:09:21 and desktops are WAY more upgradable Jan 07 19:09:35 rboatright: azerty keyboard Jan 07 19:09:37 i run dual GPU Dual graphics cards in SLI Jan 07 19:09:42 what notebook can i do that with Jan 07 19:09:43 for me, portability is worth $$$ Jan 07 19:09:43 second quart Jan 07 19:09:44 * haeffb has no desktop pc Jan 07 19:09:46 and how much will i have to pay? Jan 07 19:09:55 for me games aren't about portability Jan 07 19:09:58 Mousey: still, the majority of people these days would rather buy a new laptop than a new desktop Jan 07 19:10:07 have 4 laptops Jan 07 19:10:09 11:09AM France! Congratulations French humans. You can buy a Pre soon. Jan 07 19:10:10 xcomp: the majority of people aren't gamers Jan 07 19:10:10 yey! Jan 07 19:10:16 I used to run 3-4 desktops at home, not I run a 24" imac and about 3 laptops Jan 07 19:10:20 and most non-nerds don't consider the PC as a gaming platform Jan 07 19:10:32 they think "PS3" and "XBox" when they think gaming Jan 07 19:10:33 12 billion euro co 25 m cust Jan 07 19:10:45 Mousey: a high end dell XPS laptop. they have dual graphics cards Jan 07 19:10:50 xcomp: nevertheless those gamers consider themselves CONSOLE gamers Jan 07 19:10:57 gkatsev_zhunter: which gets back to, how much will i have to pay Jan 07 19:11:01 first fr 3g Jan 07 19:11:02 and are the video cards upgradeable Jan 07 19:11:02 france getting pre Jan 07 19:11:04 no Jan 07 19:11:06 * egaudet_zombie is a console gamer Jan 07 19:11:07 unlimited Jan 07 19:11:08 Mousey: $1500 Jan 07 19:11:17 that's a lot more than two video cards Jan 07 19:11:22 destinal: does DOSBox use SDL audio? Jan 07 19:11:28 * nt4cats|work is pretty impressed with his kids' Nintendo DSi's Jan 07 19:11:32 lol isnt ti weird they annoucned the PDK ont he site before even mentioning it at the event Jan 07 19:11:48 10m sfr cust w smartphones by 2012 Jan 07 19:12:17 choose paalm over apple Jan 07 19:12:30 synackfin1: yes, configure doesn't find it and disables it though Jan 07 19:12:32 oh, they're owned by vodafone .. Jan 07 19:12:35 shouldn't be a big deal Jan 07 19:12:50 bp half Jan 07 19:12:56 hmm... developer.palm back online Jan 07 19:13:07 ouch "We started negotiating for smartphones in Cupertino... we ended in Sunnyvale." Jan 07 19:13:14 cash bonuses for people who write hot apps Jan 07 19:13:21 destinal: hmm, odd. how do doom/quake do audio, SDL? Jan 07 19:13:28 new public dev program up on it? Jan 07 19:13:29 synackfin1: alsa Jan 07 19:13:31 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1850&Itemid=20 Jan 07 19:13:45 aha... native sdk is official Jan 07 19:13:46 destinal: make it find it Jan 07 19:13:47 the webOS Plug-in Development Kit (PDK) lets developers extend their webOS applications by writing plug-ins in C or C++. Jan 07 19:13:58 based on GCC and SDL, it says Jan 07 19:14:01 does the Backup application do a whole system/device backup to Palm, or is it a subset of everything? Jan 07 19:14:01 interesting Jan 07 19:14:03 seriously???? Jan 07 19:14:12 srsly Jan 07 19:14:18 http://pdnblog.palm.com/2010/01/ces-announcements/ Jan 07 19:14:19 A public beta release of the PDK is scheduled to be available to all webOS developers in March, followed by an official release in the first half of 2010. Jan 07 19:14:20 hey geist Jan 07 19:14:26 destinal: huh, i didn't know the pre came with an alsa lib Jan 07 19:14:28 we knew that was coming, lets push doom quake to app cat Jan 07 19:14:34 "including those that use OpenGL ES 1.1 or 2.0" Jan 07 19:14:40 interesting! 1.1 Jan 07 19:14:42 synackfin1: there's alsa and pulse on the pre Jan 07 19:14:43 geist Jan 07 19:15:01 this rocks so hard Jan 07 19:15:11 grr 1.1 Jan 07 19:15:17 do it w webos-int logos Jan 07 19:15:23 katie mitic Jan 07 19:15:23 webgl and o3d are potential for future Jan 07 19:15:28 products Jan 07 19:15:37 egaudet_zombie: or 2.0 Jan 07 19:15:46 "A public beta release of the PDK is scheduled to be available to all webOS developers in March" :-( want. now. Jan 07 19:15:47 how much doom quake gonna cost if it gets to app catolog???????? Jan 07 19:15:49 the hardware is shader based Jan 07 19:16:04 synackfin1: alsa is the linux kernel's sound codebase, i'd hope it came with it. ;) Jan 07 19:16:07 zip JMyaDaGod Jan 07 19:16:17 geist: I only grr'd because I'm a newb to openGL(ES) and I couldn't get 1.1 code to o work Jan 07 19:16:32 zip mean zero right lol Jan 07 19:16:35 Mousey: it did Jan 07 19:16:44 geist: yeah we only have gl es 2.0 code working Jan 07 19:16:44 shout out to homebrrew Jan 07 19:16:45 i still can't figure out why libsdl-ttf linked against dogless Jan 07 19:16:45 so far Jan 07 19:16:49 Mousey: sometimes folks strip the kernel down, e.g. I doubt they built the linux raid driver Jan 07 19:16:49 woot! Jan 07 19:16:58 synackfin1: well guess what, they did Jan 07 19:17:00 N00B Jan 07 19:17:09 synackfin1: in fact, the filesystem on the Pre is LVM Jan 07 19:17:10 Mousey: seriously, it has raid?? Jan 07 19:17:14 Mousey: ahh Jan 07 19:17:15 so not only RAID, but LVM Jan 07 19:17:25 destinal: zsnes looks promising Jan 07 19:17:35 did he say webos-internals on stage? ;-P Jan 07 19:17:36 yeah, that was nice of them to mention the homebrew guys Jan 07 19:17:36 neato Jan 07 19:17:40 yeah, i doubt we built in any raid, but we use lvm2 to managed the mmc Jan 07 19:17:42 PuffTheMagic: zsnes is 50% assembly or something, so I read Jan 07 19:17:52 yeah, they thanked "homebrew community" onstage! Jan 07 19:17:54 PuffTheMagic: x86 Jan 07 19:17:58 assembly, go port it Jan 07 19:17:59 would let us resize things in the future if we needed it Jan 07 19:18:01 w00t! Jan 07 19:18:04 Katie is discussing the benefits of working with Palm as a developer. "We incredibly thankful to those who helped us get here... especially those in the homebrew community." That's pretty cool. Nice tip of the hat. Jan 07 19:18:11 :) Jan 07 19:18:21 is the palm presentation now ? Jan 07 19:18:24 yap Jan 07 19:18:26 yep Jan 07 19:18:27 is there a video link Jan 07 19:18:27 "homebrew apps" is vaporware. There really aren't any Jan 07 19:18:29 At CES 2010, we demonstrated many third-party applications built using a pre-release version of the webOS PDK, including 3D games from EA Mobile, Gameloft, Glu Mobile and Laminar Research. These developers have been able to bring their existing applications to webOS quickly and with minimal effort using the PDK. Jan 07 19:18:29 http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/07/live-from-palms-ces-2010-press-event/?sort=newest&refresh=15 Jan 07 19:18:43 destinal: does DosBox not detect SDL audio because the Pre's SDL lib was built without audio support, or because DOSBox is just finicky? Jan 07 19:18:50 cool thanks azakus Jan 07 19:19:05 So there's our need for speed :) Jan 07 19:19:05 not to mention http://www.precentral.net/live-palms-ces-2010-event Jan 07 19:19:11 wow this lady is old Jan 07 19:19:13 destinal: link? Jan 07 19:19:21 precentral don't have pics Jan 07 19:19:23 xcomp: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1850&Itemid=20 Jan 07 19:19:32 synackfin1: it might not use sdl for audio and try to access oss directly Jan 07 19:19:32 engadget has pics Jan 07 19:19:42 gkatsev_zhunter, thats what i'm looking at Jan 07 19:19:43 ;) Jan 07 19:19:54 destinal: oh, i didn't see that part Jan 07 19:19:56 man, those BOOTS Jan 07 19:20:01 you'd think she was from seattle Jan 07 19:20:02 heh, so now we know what the rest of the presentation is about Jan 07 19:20:03 :) Jan 07 19:20:19 jacques: OSS won't work but won't crash either (shouldn't) Jan 07 19:20:23 synackfin1: also gstreamer Jan 07 19:20:25 just fail to find /dev/dsp Jan 07 19:20:40 precentral is showcased Jan 07 19:20:42 i think she will talk for 5 more mins and be like BGTFO Jan 07 19:20:43 and I'm sure they use SDL sound Jan 07 19:20:43 the audio hardware is different on each platform Jan 07 19:20:45 destinal: :D Jan 07 19:20:50 but alsa is the general abstraction Jan 07 19:20:51 oh coooooool Jan 07 19:20:51 no oss Jan 07 19:20:57 they're going to open up the app db Jan 07 19:21:03 so anybody can list them and rank them Jan 07 19:21:04 already up Jan 07 19:21:06 just no sdlaudo libs on pre Jan 07 19:21:07 http://projectappetite.com/ Jan 07 19:21:18 so it won't do sound I would think Jan 07 19:21:22 (dosbox) Jan 07 19:21:40 destinal: woot! Jan 07 19:21:47 dunno Jan 07 19:21:53 destinal: well it shoudl be easy to change anything from oss to alsa Jan 07 19:22:01 heh, projectappetite looks to have been slashdotted Jan 07 19:22:04 geist: I thought there was a wrapper around alsa to provide the oss headers Jan 07 19:22:08 could be Jan 07 19:22:21 there should be a webos-internals OTA installer page. ProjectP-Patch Jan 07 19:22:22 ^_^ Jan 07 19:22:24 though we may not put it on the device, might be a homebrew opportunity Jan 07 19:22:33 geist: http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php/Alsa-oss Jan 07 19:22:35 looks like project appetite is down Jan 07 19:22:35 :P Jan 07 19:22:43 anyone tried rebel simcard 2 to unlock pre to any network? Jan 07 19:22:54 geist: that's an OSS library (userspace) compiled using ALSA Jan 07 19:22:54 plugin dev kit Jan 07 19:22:58 native sdk? Jan 07 19:23:11 engadget: Jan 07 19:23:13 hey freakout Jan 07 19:23:15 destinal: so sdl plugins huh Jan 07 19:23:15 dieterbohn: Jan 07 19:23:16 devs can make C and C++ apps Jan 07 19:23:16 http://www.precentral.net/app-gallery Jan 07 19:23:16 :D Jan 07 19:23:17 Thursday January 7, 2010 11:22 dieterbohn Jan 07 19:23:19 I'm wondering whether to apply for PDK access, any NDA might be a hinderance in doing open source SDL work for webos in the meantime Jan 07 19:23:20 nice Jan 07 19:23:29 morning eguy Jan 07 19:23:29 destinal: doubt it Jan 07 19:23:33 destinal: we already know what it is Jan 07 19:23:33 i guess once the native sdk is released palm will officially be the most developer-friendly corporation in the world Jan 07 19:23:36 Guys... C and C++ for webOS applications now. Jan 07 19:23:39 sdl game in plugin api form Jan 07 19:23:42 sure but do they know that we know :) Jan 07 19:23:43 we can do that now Jan 07 19:23:43 :D Jan 07 19:23:52 aha! Jan 07 19:23:57 oh dang didn't read up. Jan 07 19:24:00 "some of these games are launching today" Jan 07 19:24:04 and what happens when someone gives you something under NDA that you already know Jan 07 19:24:17 need for speed is real Jan 07 19:24:19 can you get in trouble by someone misconstruing that you learned it from restricted materials? Jan 07 19:24:24 http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/2010-01-07_045palm.jpg Jan 07 19:24:25 WOOT NEED FOR SPEED Jan 07 19:24:33 RAWR Jan 07 19:24:34 looks like need for speed will hit the app catalog very soon Jan 07 19:24:38 wait, sims? Jan 07 19:24:40 for linux?! Jan 07 19:24:42 that's epic Jan 07 19:24:51 JMyaDaGod: yeah we confirmed that minutes ago from the PDK page on developer.palm :) Jan 07 19:24:51 so the games are available today Jan 07 19:24:58 palm scooped themselves :) Jan 07 19:25:01 ooh scrabble Jan 07 19:25:04 I was guessing that the games would be up today Jan 07 19:25:04 but SIMS3 for LINUX? Jan 07 19:25:05 but i mean avaiable today Jan 07 19:25:27 mic api, mic api, mic api Jan 07 19:25:33 You guys in the live feed from precentral? Jan 07 19:25:34 woah Jan 07 19:25:37 JMyaDaGod: oh, yeah, well why else did you think 135 had SDL in it? Jan 07 19:25:37 yea Jan 07 19:25:41 I'm there Jan 07 19:25:43 so they could do the steve jobs moment Jan 07 19:25:43 EA praising the API Jan 07 19:25:46 on the catalog TODAY Jan 07 19:25:46 did developer.palm.com just chagne all around on me? or did I just snort a bunch of coffee? Jan 07 19:25:58 jettero: yes it did Jan 07 19:25:58 It's changed Jan 07 19:26:05 jettero: notice the new info about the PDK Jan 07 19:26:05 dieterbohn: Jan 07 19:26:06 lol, they're mocking the people who didn't believe in the Need for Speed leak Jan 07 19:26:09 I was down for about 30 mins in fact Jan 07 19:26:10 destinal: i figured but i just like hearin thats its available today Jan 07 19:26:24 JMyaDaGod: it's ok I'm just bragging about having predicted it :) Jan 07 19:26:26 who needs to change their pants? Jan 07 19:26:31 * PuffTheMagic raises his hands Jan 07 19:26:32 Me Jan 07 19:26:34 yeah, we had to push the bits early so it'd be ready today Jan 07 19:26:35 "We'll be releasing the PDK at the Game Developers Conference." when / where is that? Jan 07 19:26:39 * xcomp raises his hands Jan 07 19:26:40 * Major raises thy hand Jan 07 19:26:47 but we knew you guys would immediately take it apart, we were taking bets for how long it'd take Jan 07 19:26:52 and you didn't dissapoint :) Jan 07 19:26:52 geist: lol Jan 07 19:27:01 And it has been done is record time Jan 07 19:27:02 nfs demo on Jan 07 19:27:02 geist: you must have been laughing over the chat logs Jan 07 19:27:03 geist, who won the bet ? Jan 07 19:27:09 geist: we try hard to not disappoint :-D Jan 07 19:27:15 engadget: 11:26AM Really smooth -- iPhone smooth. Jan 07 19:27:17 engadget: "this is really impressive" Jan 07 19:27:22 geist: like, uh, what's this package.. and what's this in opensource.. ? Jan 07 19:27:30 this looks awesome :) Jan 07 19:27:31 hello Jan 07 19:27:37 don't worry guys, that nfs leak couldn't have been real Jan 07 19:27:38 destinal: you called it man. Jan 07 19:27:42 2 years, 2 great keynotes??? when did this happen palm? Jan 07 19:27:45 they're going to make it so you have to pay to get the SDK? Jan 07 19:27:46 rwhitby: :) Jan 07 19:27:49 pleaseee flash next :) Jan 07 19:28:02 http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/2010-01-07_054palm.jpg Jan 07 19:28:10 NFS Jan 07 19:28:12 nice Jan 07 19:28:13 man I should've bought some palm stock yesterday Jan 07 19:28:15 i am going to be going in app catalog all day waiting Jan 07 19:28:19 looks lke the SHIT! Jan 07 19:28:25 geist: was anyone annoyed that we announced SDL games with the new bits first? :) Jan 07 19:28:47 nah Jan 07 19:28:49 lol Jan 07 19:28:56 no, we were very clear that you guys would immediately figure it out Jan 07 19:29:00 we know people will see stuff we put in Jan 07 19:29:05 there were no surprises, it was a calculated risk Jan 07 19:29:06 because we're a buncha smart cookies! Jan 07 19:29:08 shame I sold my stock last year Jan 07 19:29:14 destinal: I hear the guys who wrote the SDL stuff were loving what we were doing. Jan 07 19:29:17 dieterbohn: Jan 07 19:29:17 Available TODAY Jan 07 19:29:18 Thursday January 7, 2010 11:29 dieterbohn Jan 07 19:29:19 engadget: "Wow, again. Graphics look tight here. Really nice. Pre users, it's a good day for you." Jan 07 19:29:34 yes indeed!!! Jan 07 19:29:42 yeah, TI did a good job. the SGX bits are quite fast Jan 07 19:29:51 What an utterly lousy day to have my Pre in the shop. Jan 07 19:30:01 haha Jan 07 19:30:06 that OMAP is a beast Jan 07 19:30:07 yeah but it was probably amusing when we went upstart instead of finding type=game. I imagine it's interesting watching from the palm side seeing us work through it Jan 07 19:30:12 webos-internals: have you hugged your open phone today? Jan 07 19:30:13 just need to get the 37xx and get the half node shrink Jan 07 19:30:15 good thing I just doctored my CDMA Pre - logging back into firstuse right now :-) Jan 07 19:30:16 and faster clock Jan 07 19:30:19 ieterbohn: Jan 07 19:30:19 video recording! :) Jan 07 19:30:19 Today, new feature that many of you have been wanting - VIDEO RECORDING Jan 07 19:30:19 woot, video recordign Jan 07 19:30:20 VIDEO? Jan 07 19:30:22 lol Jan 07 19:30:27 video , lol Jan 07 19:30:30 precorder has been scooped Jan 07 19:30:33 yes VIDEO! Jan 07 19:30:35 yey! Jan 07 19:30:36 lol Jan 07 19:30:41 editing too! Jan 07 19:30:43 Video recording, finally Jan 07 19:30:44 YAYA VIDEO!!!! Jan 07 19:30:45 and editing Jan 07 19:30:46 Yes he did Jan 07 19:30:49 11:30AM "Today I'd like to talk to you about a new feature. Video recording." Jan 07 19:30:50 oh what a day Jan 07 19:30:51 * Major needs to change pants again Jan 07 19:30:54 * xcomp orgasms Jan 07 19:30:55 Record, edit and share video! Jan 07 19:30:56 i'm wet Jan 07 19:30:58 nice I was using precorder last night at a concert Jan 07 19:31:08 so when is the freaking GSM update coming....! Jan 07 19:31:10 video + motion record = win Jan 07 19:31:10 dieterbohn: Jan 07 19:31:10 Taps a button with a timeline, thumbnails, he can cut the video down Jan 07 19:31:10 Thursday January 7, 2010 11:30 dieterbohn Jan 07 19:31:10 11:31 Jan 07 19:31:10 dieterbohn: Jan 07 19:31:14 geist: were those bits also already in 1.3.5 and we missed them being too busy playing with SDL toys? Jan 07 19:31:14 * jacques faints dead away. Jan 07 19:31:17 video + motion record = win on man levels Jan 07 19:31:19 sweet jesus it's the second comeing of christ Jan 07 19:31:30 uplaod to youtube, facebook Jan 07 19:31:31 does this mean were gonna have a webos update today? Jan 07 19:31:32 many* Jan 07 19:31:40 loot_: I'm waiting for the microphone to be available! Jan 07 19:31:44 It looks A LOT like the iPhone editor. Jan 07 19:31:47 HA Jan 07 19:31:49 loot_: love to see VOIP chat Jan 07 19:31:52 * xcomp just hurt his ankle from excitement Jan 07 19:31:53 2.0? Jan 07 19:31:54 february Jan 07 19:31:54 Palm has been busting their ass i see Jan 07 19:32:03 webos 2.0 coming in february Jan 07 19:32:04 dieterbohn: Jan 07 19:32:04 Wil be available in Feb to ALL customers Jan 07 19:32:04 Thursday January 7, 2010 11:31 dieterbohn Jan 07 19:32:10 synackfin1: closest you can get is google voice right now i think Jan 07 19:32:17 yeah, i wish CES wasn't in january. that alone is responsible for most folks losing their vacation Jan 07 19:32:23 This is the Old Palm that i remember Jan 07 19:32:34 Major: yes! Jan 07 19:32:36 I have flashed webOS_131_Bypass_xxRake to my Pre in order to get the SPC code but I wasnt able to get anything useful from 0x00A50000 or 0x00A622BA, then I flashed Nekrox (1.1) to it and after enabling konami code novaproxy.py wont connect. Thing is I cant flash any webos ver because the "Next" button wont enable to proceed flashing. Totally clueless here, Jan 07 19:32:38 i took 0 days off for vacation this year Jan 07 19:32:39 :( Jan 07 19:32:43 lost vacation is no good Jan 07 19:32:45 ej Jan 07 19:32:47 the pre they're using at CES doesn't have the center button! Jan 07 19:32:48 "No new hardware required." zing apple! Jan 07 19:32:49 pixi gets video too Jan 07 19:32:49 video in february Jan 07 19:32:50 :( Jan 07 19:32:56 I guess that's confirmed now :-) Jan 07 19:33:07 watashi: novaproxy???? someone still uses that Jan 07 19:33:11 ? Jan 07 19:33:12 oh man, if verizon isn't announced today I'll tear my contract in half and go to sprint Jan 07 19:33:13 WHAAAAAAATTTTTT Jan 07 19:33:19 glass: we hate the center button Jan 07 19:33:29 ik love the center button Jan 07 19:33:36 I use the center button Jan 07 19:33:36 destinal , what to use then? Jan 07 19:33:36 showing notifications while playing sims Jan 07 19:33:39 ahahaha Jan 07 19:33:43 you can still tap as if you have the button Jan 07 19:33:46 I'm completely indifferent to the center button. Jan 07 19:33:49 noticed the lack of center button, eh? Jan 07 19:33:49 just no button Jan 07 19:33:53 card view pauses game? EXCELLENT Jan 07 19:33:56 yeah I just noticed that Jan 07 19:34:05 Are you sure on that center button Jan 07 19:34:09 sims is for real?? Jan 07 19:34:11 http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/2010-01-07_073palm.jpg Jan 07 19:34:11 verizon pre doesn't have a center button Jan 07 19:34:15 no center button there Jan 07 19:34:23 yeah, look at the engadget feed Jan 07 19:34:24 30 minutes and you'll forget it exists Jan 07 19:34:32 it's got the speaker like the pixi, i htink Jan 07 19:34:41 having no button feels better Jan 07 19:34:44 http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/07/live-from-palms-ces-2010-press-event/?sort=newest&refresh=15 Jan 07 19:34:44 flash Jan 07 19:34:47 it makes tapping easier Jan 07 19:34:50 omg flash 10 demo :O Jan 07 19:34:57 chuq just retweeted: @palm Thanks for taking video recording off our hands, so we can focus on things other than Precorder … (via @webosinternals) Jan 07 19:34:59 I'm scared of the pre with no button Jan 07 19:35:13 mdklein: the Pixi has no button Jan 07 19:35:16 but Sim3 will use 9gigs for space Jan 07 19:35:20 lol Jan 07 19:35:21 so only verizon can plauy it Jan 07 19:35:28 destinal, can you help? I need to get the SPC code, Jan 07 19:35:29 PuffTheMagic: :-| Jan 07 19:35:31 nope Jan 07 19:35:36 http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/2010-01-07_079palm.jpg flashblock? Jan 07 19:35:39 http://cdn.cloudfiles.mosso.com/c71692/media/image/201001/phpkky09ZPalm_CES_0040.jpg Jan 07 19:35:39 it's fairly small Jan 07 19:35:41 PuffTheMagic: don't forget, only girls can play Sim3 Jan 07 19:35:45 yeah, we've been going the no button route since just after pre was started, but it was too late in the process to remove it before the first pre Jan 07 19:35:47 dieterbohn: Jan 07 19:35:48 Pre customers can get beta "soon" Jan 07 19:35:50 rwhitby: create an OSS webosinternals dev account with palm and release doom and quake and supertux to it, lol Jan 07 19:35:56 the button doesn't really bring much to the table Jan 07 19:35:58 flash! Jan 07 19:35:59 FLASH Jan 07 19:36:02 !!!! Jan 07 19:36:06 FLASH Jan 07 19:36:09 download a beta plugin soon :D Jan 07 19:36:09 win Jan 07 19:36:17 geist: i like the led notifs, but i guess its possible even without the button Jan 07 19:36:17 my 1st gen pre is now a collectible? Jan 07 19:36:18 dieter has been sitting on info Jan 07 19:36:21 can someone please say flash a few more times? Jan 07 19:36:22 are you guys watching a delayed feed? Jan 07 19:36:24 FLASH!!!!!! Jan 07 19:36:25 GLES2 is is beastly on the omap. I'm surprised Jan 07 19:36:29 chrisa|ph: only by like 15 seconds Jan 07 19:36:36 flash Jan 07 19:36:37 flash Jan 07 19:36:37 reading the engadget liveblog personally Jan 07 19:36:46 i hope i can disable flash in the browser .. Jan 07 19:36:47 sigh Jan 07 19:36:47 bpadalino|work: me too Jan 07 19:36:54 bpadalino|work: sure you can Jan 07 19:36:59 destinal: i hate flash personally. Jan 07 19:37:01 Jacques I would keep it as a remember of what broguth Palm our of the dark ages into the golden years Jan 07 19:37:02 bpadalino|work: it'll be a plugin just replace it with the current one Jan 07 19:37:03 new notification bar is gonna be HOT!!! Jan 07 19:37:05 flash doesn't appear to start until you tell it to Jan 07 19:37:09 this means we can finally use rhapsody on the pre! Jan 07 19:37:14 thats nice Jan 07 19:37:18 HULU!! Jan 07 19:37:20 hulu! Jan 07 19:37:24 en0x: you beat me to it, lol Jan 07 19:37:26 oh yes hulu! Jan 07 19:37:28 HULU :O Jan 07 19:37:32 ooh, can we port boxee to the pre? Jan 07 19:37:32 lame Jan 07 19:37:36 they wont have that in canda Jan 07 19:37:38 how about SDL in notification bar running a VKB Jan 07 19:37:42 Now Paul is showing off Flash on the Pre. Avatar trailer. It looks a little stuttery -- not bad, but certainly not something we'd want to watch all that much. Frame rate was not super high Jan 07 19:37:43 geist: sounds like palm hasn't been sitting around Jan 07 19:37:46 hmm Jan 07 19:37:46 something stinks here Jan 07 19:37:46 Yeah thats cool Jan 07 19:38:05 chrisa|ph: do you have a live feed? Jan 07 19:38:06 no flash for pixi Jan 07 19:38:06 destinal: I wish we could Jan 07 19:38:07 hahaha Jan 07 19:38:09 en0x: ? Jan 07 19:38:09 busy busy Jan 07 19:38:15 Medium frame rate engadget says Jan 07 19:38:15 rwhitby yes Jan 07 19:38:20 destinal: absolutely. if anything we're more busy than before 1.0 Jan 07 19:38:32 chrisa|ph: public? Jan 07 19:38:35 Flash plugin for the Pre browser." No Pixi then? Not surprised. Back to Katie. Jan 07 19:38:37 I feel like I'm dreaming. Jan 07 19:38:38 this is crazy Jan 07 19:38:45 I *was* working productively before this CES event started ... Jan 07 19:38:46 poor building 3 is always working weekends it seems like Jan 07 19:38:49 geist: we have nothing left to work on here lol Jan 07 19:38:55 rwhitby: in house Jan 07 19:38:57 dieterbohn: Jan 07 19:38:57 Big software update in Feb Jan 07 19:38:58 Thursday January 7, 2010 11:38 dieterbohn Jan 07 19:38:59 please announce that sprint already has the pre plus Jan 07 19:39:00 chrisa|ph: nod Jan 07 19:39:00 en0x: I'm sure it'll be pixi as well Jan 07 19:39:11 I wanna see a shot of a Preware icon somewhere .... Jan 07 19:39:14 the CPU isn't *that* slow Jan 07 19:39:16 rwhitby: hahah Jan 07 19:39:17 what does CEs stand for again Jan 07 19:39:18 ... that's all I ask. Jan 07 19:39:19 How long until February? Jan 07 19:39:23 en0x: wouldn't flash for pre work on pixi? I thought it was flash for "webos" Jan 07 19:39:28 consumer electronics show Jan 07 19:39:30 rwhitby: did you see my suggestion? Jan 07 19:39:32 k Jan 07 19:39:36 thats what i thougt Jan 07 19:39:36 I want to move to sprint my pocketbook can't handle Verizon and 2 data plans Jan 07 19:39:36 synackfin1, idk thats what engadget says Jan 07 19:39:39 rwhitby: they can't like us that much. "friendly, but not friends" Jan 07 19:39:42 synackfin1: pixi is too slow, lol or somthing Jan 07 19:39:43 I don't think we've said flash was pre only Jan 07 19:39:45 synackfin1: pixi has a different cpu, so it's not automatic Jan 07 19:39:51 dieterbohn: Big software update in Feb More battery, performance, video Jan 07 19:39:59 sounds like they're overhauling Luna Jan 07 19:40:04 dieterbohn: Jan 07 19:40:04 She invites Jon back to the stage for more exciting things Jan 07 19:40:10 MORE exciting? Jan 07 19:40:11 webos 2.0 Jan 07 19:40:13 It needs it destinal Jan 07 19:40:16 http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/2010-01-07_089palm.jpg Jan 07 19:40:18 acellerated luna? Jan 07 19:40:19 wouldve been even awesomer if the webos update was today Jan 07 19:40:24 yeah Jan 07 19:40:29 though, enough will come today Jan 07 19:40:33 PRE+ confirmed Jan 07 19:40:36 yeah, games today Jan 07 19:40:38 pre plus Jan 07 19:40:40 yep Jan 07 19:40:40 what's the hot apps bonus program about? Jan 07 19:40:43 Dudes!! i'm running out of pants Jan 07 19:40:44 16GB Jan 07 19:40:49 16GB Jan 07 19:40:50 more ram! Jan 07 19:40:51 no center button Jan 07 19:40:56 UZHans2: most app downloads wins $1,000,000.00 Jan 07 19:40:57 precentral didn't mention the double ram Jan 07 19:40:58 ieterbohn: Jan 07 19:40:58 comes with ts cover Jan 07 19:40:58 More RAM, in other words Jan 07 19:41:03 ooo comes with touchstone cover Jan 07 19:41:04 hrm, in july I might have to upgrade and give my old pre to the gf... Jan 07 19:41:06 Pre+: want Jan 07 19:41:13 want want want Jan 07 19:41:16 yeah, the 512MB really lets it stretch Jan 07 19:41:17 pixi+ has wifi Jan 07 19:41:25 nice :D Jan 07 19:41:27 pixi+ has wifi...bah I still think the pixi has it Jan 07 19:41:29 UZHans2: top selling free app gets 100000 top grossing paid app gets 100000, and then the 2 and 3rd and 20th and up to 200th place get some money as well Jan 07 19:41:42 a lot of us use pixi as our primary phone Jan 07 19:41:46 http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/2010-01-07_094palm.jpg Jan 07 19:41:46 fwiw Jan 07 19:41:51 *please* come to sprint, pre+! Jan 07 19:41:54 dieterbohn: Jan 07 19:41:54 lime green, sky blue, orange (bright) and pink Jan 07 19:41:56 COLORS Jan 07 19:42:03 mdklein: can you get the $100 rate even if you're on an existing contract? Jan 07 19:42:05 will sprint have it? Jan 07 19:42:06 Eguy: pixi lacks the wifi chip. keep dreaming Jan 07 19:42:12 dieterbohn: Jan 07 19:42:12 pre plus and pixi plus available exclusively on Verizon Jan 07 19:42:12 Thursday January 7, 2010 11:42 dieterbohn Jan 07 19:42:14 how i the pre+ "simplified navigation"? Jan 07 19:42:16 geist: with that much more RAM a lot of interesting uses come to mind Jan 07 19:42:26 mdklein: I thought you'd have to pay $500 minus $150 rebate if you're already a custome Jan 07 19:42:26 looks like only verizon will get them Jan 07 19:42:29 dieterbohn: Jan 07 19:42:29 EXCLUSIVE to Verion Jan 07 19:42:33 NO only on verizon!!! Jan 07 19:42:34 noooo Jan 07 19:42:38 probably for 6months as well Jan 07 19:42:38 sorry folks Jan 07 19:42:38 nooo Jan 07 19:42:42 bah Jan 07 19:42:43 tethering! Jan 07 19:42:44 :( Jan 07 19:42:45 verizon sucks Jan 07 19:42:46 dieterbohn: Jan 07 19:42:47 TETHERING Jan 07 19:42:50 synackfin1: if you're upgrade eligible Jan 07 19:42:53 i'm sticking with sprint fo rnow Jan 07 19:43:02 tethering Jan 07 19:43:03 256mb is not bad anyway Jan 07 19:43:03 tethering only for vzw Jan 07 19:43:08 palm continues to pwn Jan 07 19:43:09 geist: will our armv7 compiled apps run on Plus unchanged? Jan 07 19:43:09 New hotspot feature? Jan 07 19:43:20 lol, apple colors for pixi covers Jan 07 19:43:26 maybe by july sprint will have a pre+ or pixi+ Jan 07 19:43:26 mdklein: I thought upgrade eligiblity only shaved off $150, but "new customers" get $400 off ($100 instead of $500) Jan 07 19:43:27 how long will it take to port that to the old Pre? :) Jan 07 19:43:32 unless verizon makes their pricing more attractive, i'm not leaving sprint Jan 07 19:43:33 rwhitby: pre+ is exactly the same bits, just more ram + flash Jan 07 19:43:37 Palm Mobile Hotspot -- it takes tethering to a new level. Just download this app, install it on your device, and you can use your device to connect to the internet... up to five different devices can connect." Jan 07 19:43:38 synackfin1: nope, you get new customer pricing Jan 07 19:43:41 geist: sweet Jan 07 19:43:41 tethering now Jan 07 19:43:41 wtf Jan 07 19:43:41 wow Jan 07 19:43:43 rwhitby: exactly the same OS image Jan 07 19:43:47 mdklein: ahhh, nice Jan 07 19:43:49 I've got to say I think Palm has done a triple home run maybe even a grandslam Jan 07 19:43:51 hi guys! Is there a application available to add & update RSS Feeds? Jan 07 19:43:59 imagine. official tethering Jan 07 19:44:00 best in show 2 years in a fow Jan 07 19:44:03 row* Jan 07 19:44:03 at least I always have in the past... Jan 07 19:44:05 Palm has taken everything we have done and put it in 2.0 Jan 07 19:44:06 LOL Jan 07 19:44:10 maybe its verizon only? Jan 07 19:44:12 I paid new customer pricing on my pre. Jan 07 19:44:14 Eguy thats what i'm thinking Jan 07 19:44:14 january 25 Jan 07 19:44:15 dieterbohn: Jan 07 19:44:15 Launches Jan 25th Jan 07 19:44:23 shit, I want it NOW Jan 07 19:44:45 palm is going to rake in the dough this year Jan 07 19:44:46 PuffTheMagic: isnt that a good thing, really? then we can focus on the next best thing Jan 07 19:44:46 I'm thinking there will definitely be some taking pre+'s and running them on Sprint Jan 07 19:44:57 sure it is Jan 07 19:45:03 destinal: not with the $350 ETF Jan 07 19:45:07 dieterbohn: Jan 07 19:45:07 jokes - refuses to announce price Jan 07 19:45:13 * xcomp wishes he had tons of spare cash so he could just buy a pre+ and activate it on sprint Jan 07 19:45:26 i doubt i will need 16gig Jan 07 19:45:28 "We're most excited about the mobile hotspot aspect of these phones... so okay, you've heard about the phones, you've heard about the features. But how much will they cost? Well we won't be announcing that today." Ha! What!? Jan 07 19:45:30 boo Jan 07 19:45:32 well we can take the tethering app from rom and install it on pre on sprint Jan 07 19:45:35 :D Jan 07 19:45:38 gkatsev_zhunter: some will be available without contract and reconfigured for sprint one way or another Jan 07 19:45:39 PuffTheMagic: that extra ram will be nice though Jan 07 19:45:46 The MyTether author is crying right now. Jan 07 19:45:46 it dont have that Jan 07 19:45:50 i thought it was only flash Jan 07 19:45:58 rwhitby: he was always crying Jan 07 19:46:01 gkatsev_zhunter: what happens to "lost" phones? I know the carrier blocks the ID, but do _all_ carriers block the ID? Jan 07 19:46:03 PuffTheMagic: double the ram too Jan 07 19:46:04 rwhitby: lol Jan 07 19:46:07 jon mentioned it Jan 07 19:46:08 rwhitby: It depends on if it's DUN or IPMASQ Jan 07 19:46:11 oh Jan 07 19:46:18 gkatsev_zhunter: can a lost verizon phone be run on sprint? Jan 07 19:46:20 It's over! Jan 07 19:46:24 rwhitby: if it's usbpassthrough that we've seen, its DUN Jan 07 19:46:24 thats not fair Jan 07 19:46:25 it just never shows up on the spec sheets since the amount of dram is usually not directly visible by anyone Jan 07 19:46:26 well recap dosn't mean over Jan 07 19:46:26 synackfin1: no clue. Jan 07 19:46:30 too much to take in Jan 07 19:46:43 recap is the end except for apple usually Jan 07 19:46:43 no at&t announcement today Jan 07 19:46:47 yeah, they need a One more thing, like jobs Jan 07 19:46:48 and that means the pre loses phone, networking when you gain it Jan 07 19:47:02 So as of right now what all is restricted to the plus verizon palms?????????? Jan 07 19:47:14 who is downloading need for speed today? Jan 07 19:47:17 pre+ and pixi+ are vzq only for now Jan 07 19:47:25 JMyaDaGod: pre+/Pixi+ and perhaps tethering app Jan 07 19:47:43 games are available now Jan 07 19:47:45 needs jobs's Reality Distortion Field Jan 07 19:47:47 you can go download them now Jan 07 19:47:49 JMyaDaGod: all the spicy new features are coming to everyone Jan 07 19:47:51 lol, no games for pixi users Jan 07 19:48:00 ok, will be webOS 1.4 in feb Jan 07 19:48:00 webos 1.4 with new features Jan 07 19:48:00 yep he said they were ready Jan 07 19:48:08 are thHow much are they? Jan 07 19:48:12 I still haven't forgiven EA for ruining Sega Sports NFL games by getting that NFLPA exlusive rights ! Jan 07 19:48:16 webos 1.4 it is Jan 07 19:48:22 http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/2010-01-07_105palm.jpg Jan 07 19:48:25 no pixi flash Jan 07 19:48:44 anyone else annoyed that Sprint doesn't get upgraded hardware?? Jan 07 19:48:49 He just said all webos devices have flash Jan 07 19:48:55 geist: no games for pixi according to Jon's slide Jan 07 19:48:58 games are for pre Jan 07 19:49:02 sorry pixi owners Jan 07 19:49:05 1.4 doesn't mean 2.0 won't be feb also :) Jan 07 19:49:06 Zorin: somewhat, but thats what happens to early adopters Jan 07 19:49:08 precentral palmcast will be 3 hours next week lol Jan 07 19:49:17 UZHans2: it probably wont be. Jan 07 19:49:22 flash beta will be in the app catalog soon for pre owners only Jan 07 19:49:29 Eguy: 3 hours, you mean take the whole day, lol Jan 07 19:49:29 ok, done Jan 07 19:49:30 wirc needs to not use bright yellow names Jan 07 19:49:32 got disconnected. :y Jan 07 19:49:35 xcomp: ah Jan 07 19:49:36 yep but it's so trivial for them to sell them on both. cdma is cdma. Jan 07 19:49:40 Can the verizon one work on sprint? Jan 07 19:49:43 xcomp: Adobe probably did the port Jan 07 19:49:44 chrisa|ph: i will deal with that in wIRC-SDL Jan 07 19:49:45 :D Jan 07 19:49:51 "At the last CES I told you Palm was back, and we meant it" Go get em Jon! Jan 07 19:49:53 xcomp: and they probably haven't gotten around to the armv6 one yet Jan 07 19:49:54 xcomp: I wonder how they'll do left-button mouse clicks Jan 07 19:49:56 i still dont' se ethe games in the app catalog Jan 07 19:49:59 Templarian: we will get it to Jan 07 19:50:07 xcomp: er, I meant right-button mouse clicks Jan 07 19:50:10 webchat died Jan 07 19:50:16 Templarian: yes, if sprint doesn block the MEID Jan 07 19:50:16 yeah im not seeing any new stuff in the app cat Jan 07 19:50:21 xcomp: I guess flash only supports single button mouse clicks, so touch-screen is okay Jan 07 19:50:23 just got home, anxious to check the news :D Jan 07 19:50:26 I guess Verizon wanted some exclusivity too Jan 07 19:50:27 etx: probably not up uet Jan 07 19:50:31 synackfin1: yeah Jan 07 19:50:36 Decimate: http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/07/live-from-palms-ces-2010-press-event/?sort=newest&refresh=15 Jan 07 19:50:41 Decimate: there is a lot of stuff, just read that Jan 07 19:50:44 should be there now Jan 07 19:50:44 gkatsev_zhunter: duh :) Jan 07 19:50:53 thats it Jan 07 19:50:55 * JMyaDaGod keeps refreshing app catalog but nothing :( Jan 07 19:51:06 who has there Pre's Handy? Jan 07 19:51:13 he says flash soon Jan 07 19:51:15 I'm so excited by all this I'm logged into irc on my pre during a meetign at work Jan 07 19:51:16 So, with the c++ and c stuff going into it's reald sdk, does that mean we'll be able to get scumvm without doing anything unusual to the pre? Jan 07 19:51:17 Major: yes? Jan 07 19:51:17 im on my pre now Jan 07 19:51:18 Major: we all do. Jan 07 19:51:21 does that mean this week? Jan 07 19:51:23 aww, no "one more thing" Jan 07 19:51:29 doohan: no Jan 07 19:51:38 Who has the App Catalogue updated with the games Jan 07 19:51:40 theoretically sdl can access the mic, right Jan 07 19:51:40 I've been refreshing the app catalog for about 20 mins now, still nothing Jan 07 19:51:46 Oh Jan 07 19:51:47 so the pdk should include microphone capability Jan 07 19:51:49 xcomp: mic access is easy as pie Jan 07 19:51:55 doohan: the PDK allows you to do that, or w/e. so, i guess yes? Jan 07 19:51:56 xcomp: just use alsalib Jan 07 19:51:59 which means voice dialing shouldn't be far off Jan 07 19:52:09 predictions on preice of 3D games: Jan 07 19:52:13 price* Jan 07 19:52:14 even if it comes from a 3rd party first Jan 07 19:52:15 ooh, def a 2.0 feature Jan 07 19:52:17 synankfin1: I just checked fine print: "Customers eligible for $150 with two-year subscriber agreement can either get $150 off or Sprint?s nationally advertised price on a new device, whichever is better." Jan 07 19:52:42 So, basically everything I predicted on the PalmCast last week happened :-) Jan 07 19:52:43 I wonder how much pre+ costs no-contract Jan 07 19:52:49 All palm needed to do was to get rid of Ed C. Jan 07 19:52:50 synackfin1: talk to retention department and u can get more discounts Jan 07 19:52:54 project appetite back up Jan 07 19:53:01 hmm. I don't know what to do now. palm did it all Jan 07 19:53:03 this is all win overall for Webos Jan 07 19:53:13 Dear Apple, We made the smartphone we intend to take it back, Love Palm Jan 07 19:53:13 yap Jan 07 19:53:18 hmm Jan 07 19:53:23 zscowerkin: eh, if you want to wait til march ;-) Jan 07 19:53:26 and believe me, we have a huge list of things to do Jan 07 19:53:27 apps with c++ c# code Jan 07 19:53:28 Major: lol, something like that Jan 07 19:53:28 lol Jan 07 19:53:33 Ed nearly killed them, Jon brought them back from the dead Jan 07 19:53:40 wonder if ppl will be able to write services now Jan 07 19:53:41 :D Jan 07 19:53:41 I want legit tethering on Sprint thougg Jan 07 19:53:44 next week app catalog count: 5000 Jan 07 19:53:48 think of something, we probably have it on the roadmap Jan 07 19:53:49 en0x: probably not c#, mono is probably a pain to cross compile Jan 07 19:53:50 lol Jan 07 19:53:53 so are apps coming today? or not till feburary? Jan 07 19:53:57 today Jan 07 19:54:04 Decimate: games today. Jan 07 19:54:06 I guess i,m going to go become a legit app developer lol Jan 07 19:54:08 azakus: we have mono Jan 07 19:54:08 today Jan 07 19:54:14 oh, well that works Jan 07 19:54:14 i love it :D Jan 07 19:54:17 Eguy: yeah, but Ed brought Jon on board ;) Jan 07 19:54:18 geist: VKB ? Jan 07 19:54:20 does the fact the are letting people sell apps on there site mean CANADIANS will get pay apps to? Jan 07 19:54:22 shazam with PDK Jan 07 19:54:24 Hey has anyone else noticed background downloading of your apps after you doctor and sign into your Profile? Nice! Jan 07 19:54:24 no games yet :( Jan 07 19:54:32 well, i can't tell you what's on the roadmap Jan 07 19:54:34 geist: sometimes I go to the task system and do a search for 'roadmap' to see all the random stuff Jan 07 19:54:35 charging second battery just in case of neep for speed addiction LOL Jan 07 19:54:38 just rest assured it probably is on it Jan 07 19:54:39 rwhitby, it was in changelog of 1.3.5 Jan 07 19:54:40 :P Jan 07 19:54:44 I'll bet the servers are getting slammed pretty hard right now Jan 07 19:54:49 entity I want that for homebrew too :) Jan 07 19:55:01 zsocwerkin: don't you dare! Jan 07 19:55:08 rwhitby: crap. give me something to work on. I'm so lost Jan 07 19:55:12 http://www.alternet.org/rss/the_wire_provided_by_huffington_post/102042/walrus_oral_sex:_pleasures_self_in_sex_act_at_aquarium_(video)_(nsfw)/ Jan 07 19:55:12 Still 1023 apps - which one is number 1024 Jan 07 19:55:13 oops Jan 07 19:55:14 LD Jan 07 19:55:15 lol Jan 07 19:55:22 zsocwerkin: we still got lots of SDL porting! Jan 07 19:55:23 lmao Jan 07 19:55:24 and GLES Jan 07 19:55:24 * mdklein blinks Jan 07 19:55:32 te pre looks weird without center button Jan 07 19:55:32 lol, PuffTheMagic Jan 07 19:55:33 :( Jan 07 19:55:36 PuffTheMagic: Your browsing habits laid bare. Jan 07 19:55:41 alright, enough play. Get to work webos-internals Jan 07 19:55:43 Puff: they announced Pre porn, too? Jan 07 19:55:55 Apparently, PuffTheMagic is demoing the video sharing features. Jan 07 19:56:01 hehe Jan 07 19:56:02 LOL! Jan 07 19:56:04 zsocwerkin: everything we were working on is still valid, PDK won't be public until March Jan 07 19:56:20 I need to go lie down for a while Jan 07 19:56:22 but still Jan 07 19:56:23 destinal: ah ok, I feel slightly better Jan 07 19:56:23 we need to learn how to use GLES 1.1 Jan 07 19:56:25 so pdk eh? Jan 07 19:56:27 destinal: Palm needs a month to package up our scratchbox setup Makefile ... Jan 07 19:56:27 since obviously it's there Jan 07 19:56:27 i need a smoke Jan 07 19:56:32 but i'm out of cigarettes Jan 07 19:56:32 :S Jan 07 19:56:39 how many pairs of pants did you guys go through? Jan 07 19:56:40 oil_pre: plugin development kit. Jan 07 19:56:43 chuqui: does this mean we can get native apps in the catalog now? Jan 07 19:56:43 the video recorder looks prettty slick Jan 07 19:56:48 Decimate, indeed Jan 07 19:56:48 oil_pre: so presumably NPAPI as well Jan 07 19:56:54 oil_pre: http://bit.ly/palm-pdk and http://bit.ly/webos=internals-pdk Jan 07 19:56:56 Well done Palm!!! Well done I say! Jan 07 19:57:03 destinal: I knew what it stood for... Jan 07 19:57:04 destinal: no, we need to learn how to use gles 2.0, 1 is useless Jan 07 19:57:13 they get an A+ for me for CES Jan 07 19:57:15 oil_pre: netsape plugin api? Jan 07 19:57:18 bbl Jan 07 19:57:23 1 isn't useless Jan 07 19:57:31 it's just less powerful than 2, since it's not shader ased Jan 07 19:57:36 but a lot of games are written with 1.1 Jan 07 19:57:45 they managed to nail the video recording, sharing, and full integration of native apps...its perfect for me Jan 07 19:57:47 right but we need to learn how to use 1.1 to port more stuff more easily Jan 07 19:57:53 especially stuff that was ported from last year or so, since GLES 2.0 hardware is essenitaly just showing up this year Jan 07 19:57:54 new apps, write them in 2.0 Jan 07 19:57:57 ird: 'm puushing to get beta pdk Jan 07 19:58:06 once the video recorder is out, my complaints are gone... but thats just me...besides the lag of course Jan 07 19:58:09 so far that did nothing for palm stock prices except a 10 cent drop over the course of the speech Jan 07 19:58:22 Decimate: 2.0 sounds like it'll kill the lag Jan 07 19:58:27 rwhitby: lol @ webos-internals-pdk Jan 07 19:58:33 http://developer.palm.com/ is back up! Jan 07 19:59:09 azakus: it came up with scoops over the speech the moment the speech started :) Jan 07 19:59:12 Ok guys I'm got to go i'll be back later to get to know all of you better.... oh wait one sec is any of the admins from internal here Jan 07 19:59:15 azakus: been up since the beginning, lol Jan 07 19:59:16 perhaps buy now haha Jan 07 19:59:19 geist: it's useless for webos. there no fixed pipeline support Jan 07 19:59:19 so which one of you are gonna win that MILLION????????????? Jan 07 19:59:28 I'm pretty excited to be a pre owner right now heh Jan 07 19:59:29 zsocwerkin: ? Jan 07 19:59:36 people shouldve bought palm stock yesterday and sell tomorrow Jan 07 19:59:38 of course there is. that's the point of the 1.1 gl api Jan 07 19:59:41 Anyone have any tricks for patch development? ie. Do you edit with vi straight in the emulator, or have SFTP setup somehow? Jan 07 19:59:54 it just sets up precanned shaders to emulate the older fixed function pipelines Jan 07 19:59:57 lmorchard: mount sshfs :) Jan 07 19:59:57 lmorchard: install vim via ipkg-opt. :) Jan 07 20:00:02 geist: glesv2 libs we have only support programmable shaders, unles we're all terrible wrong Jan 07 20:00:03 that's what desktop gpus have been doing for the last 5 years at least Jan 07 20:00:11 gkatsev_zhunter: he means _development_ of new patches Jan 07 20:00:13 Well now im determined to get 1.1 working example Jan 07 20:00:15 that's right. gles2 == programmable shaders only Jan 07 20:00:18 lmorchard: do it on the emulator Jan 07 20:00:18 I can't do anything right with 1.1 api :( Jan 07 20:00:20 1.1 is fixed function Jan 07 20:00:21 huh, it's going to be interesting transfering from for pay to opensource on the catalog Jan 07 20:00:30 because all the accounts are "for pay" right now Jan 07 20:00:34 ie, gles2 is not backwards compatible with 1 Jan 07 20:00:36 I've not been able to get a ssh connection into the emulator from my mac, so that's probably something to work on Jan 07 20:00:39 unlike big GL Jan 07 20:00:39 geist: it's not backwards compatible Jan 07 20:00:40 destinal: i hope. but with this CES press event, all my thoughts of palm not meeting my needs and my switching to a new phone in a few months are gone... Jan 07 20:00:48 exactly, but we should have provided both Jan 07 20:00:56 you just can't really mix Jan 07 20:01:03 poking around at adding a "category" or page number switcher to the launcher, since I'm tired of nameless pages to swipe through Jan 07 20:01:08 destinal: right, i mean, instead of using vi, he should install vim and use that. :) Jan 07 20:01:14 geist: hm... that's the one thing I don't think anyone tested Jan 07 20:01:21 Hmm, I've got vim on there now, but I miss my MacVim Jan 07 20:01:29 oh right I misread you Jan 07 20:01:30 john are said internal bet was 3 days for doom Jan 07 20:01:46 lmorchard: tabs at the top to switch from like page 1 to 4 quickly would be cool too ;) Jan 07 20:01:55 rboatright: how long did it take us again? Jan 07 20:01:58 egaudet_zombie: Yeah, thinking about that too Jan 07 20:02:16 maybe one patch to add numbered tabs, another for a button with a submenu listing named aliases for page numbers Jan 07 20:02:19 rboatright: what did I do? 26 hours? Jan 07 20:02:31 You can only fit about 4-5 view menu buttons up there though Jan 07 20:02:44 5 pages is good number Jan 07 20:02:56 rboatright: tell jon he owes me and destinal a phone call Jan 07 20:02:57 I miss my categories drop down from Palm OS classic Jan 07 20:03:01 oil_pre: http://bit.ly/palm-pdk and http://bit.ly/webos-internals-pdk (corrected second link) Jan 07 20:03:06 zsoc they ment in launcher Jan 07 20:03:11 zsoc: I remember I was like, what if we just link sdl and start drawing and it shows up? and you're like. .. nah Jan 07 20:03:16 Not too hard to hack in the numbered tabs though, so I'll probably do that first Jan 07 20:03:17 3 days to preware Jan 07 20:03:35 named page aliases in a category drop down will need a bit more development to add scenes to manage the names Jan 07 20:03:41 rwhitby: I'll look when I get home Jan 07 20:03:44 was very easy Jan 07 20:03:54 lmorchard: I forgot about that drop down_ that would rock on pre Jan 07 20:03:54 palm has done a good job with the SDL stuff so far Jan 07 20:04:12 a lot of luna internals had to be redone for that Jan 07 20:04:14 destinal: it sure is easy to use .. just look at us!! Jan 07 20:04:14 any chance we can get that mobile hotspot app for pre? Jan 07 20:04:18 took a lot of work Jan 07 20:04:18 UZHans2: I might just have a patch for that by next week, then :) Jan 07 20:04:22 destinal: lol yeah but I went and tried it anyway! Jan 07 20:04:26 geist, it's appreciated - that's for sure Jan 07 20:04:29 geist: yeah, noticed the SDL IPC Jan 07 20:04:36 katie minek very posoitive to us too Jan 07 20:04:37 zsocwerkin: as I recall you used a lot of caps lock Jan 07 20:04:38 already know how to do it, but I'm annoyed at vim in the emulator slowing me down vs my usual tools heh Jan 07 20:04:39 rboatright: ah, were they surprised by the upstart method? Jan 07 20:04:39 :) Jan 07 20:04:40 lmorchard: sweetness Jan 07 20:04:40 which is why it took so long, also getting a good stable GL implementation from TI took some time Jan 07 20:04:56 destinal: you're right, you are the true WHE Jan 07 20:05:10 zsocwerkin: nah, I just come up with ideas Jan 07 20:05:14 I believe that geist Jan 07 20:05:15 zsocwerkin: you actually made it work Jan 07 20:05:51 i didnt see anything about audio in the video recorder Jan 07 20:05:51 * jacques breathes again. Jan 07 20:06:02 sup muiz Jan 07 20:06:05 geist: I honestly thought it wouldn't hook to luna. I think I told you that. you guys did great work Jan 07 20:06:12 i am a little surprised the OMAP3 didn't have better/more stable drivers Jan 07 20:06:29 aww man, the palm pre plus doesnt have that annoying button Jan 07 20:06:43 bpadalino|work: well, hasn't openpanora been using it for a while? Jan 07 20:06:44 yeah, 30 minutes without the button and you'll forget it was there Jan 07 20:06:48 what drivers did they use? Jan 07 20:06:55 * xcomp thinks he needs to find a job in the omap3 group Jan 07 20:06:57 there's a difference between using and *really* using Jan 07 20:07:05 The button seems there mainly for people to ask "Oh, that's not a trackball?" Jan 07 20:07:08 I don't care about the button, but I want 512MiB RAM! Jan 07 20:07:10 like, rock solid across power collapse and whatnot Jan 07 20:07:14 ah Jan 07 20:07:14 i'm tired of doing automotive ucs :) Jan 07 20:07:19 geist: I don't think I've ever used the button on either of my Pre's. Jan 07 20:07:25 me neither Jan 07 20:07:34 yeah I want the 512 mb's of ram and the 16 gb's but its verizon pos only.. Jan 07 20:07:36 I use the button all the time Jan 07 20:07:39 just seems like a gunk collector now Jan 07 20:07:40 I use it all the time also Jan 07 20:07:40 yeah I never use the button Jan 07 20:07:42 button was a mfg headache too, it's a much simpler device to build Jan 07 20:07:44 though i wish i could have made it's functionality be the 'back' gesture because i find that to be the most useful, but slowest gesture to use Jan 07 20:07:56 I think a swipe up from gesture area does basically what the button does Jan 07 20:07:58 i wish sprint got the updated design :/ Jan 07 20:07:58 but I could easily get used to not using it Jan 07 20:08:08 lmorchard: yep, to get folks used to it Jan 07 20:08:11 i do want the 512MB ram though Jan 07 20:08:21 but webos 1.4 in february seems to have a lot of features for a 0.0.5 update Jan 07 20:08:29 geist: i wish we could use the button on the pre and a programmable button that didnt minimize the card Jan 07 20:08:31 "too many cards" is the single most annoying gripe I have on the pre Jan 07 20:08:32 that would be really nice Jan 07 20:08:32 do the pres w/o a button still have an LED there? Jan 07 20:08:33 video capture, edit, and save. flash 10 beta... Jan 07 20:08:35 on the pre+ if you just tap where the button was it's the same thing Jan 07 20:08:42 when in February? probably not in time for SCALE ... Jan 07 20:08:43 are the games up yet? :> Jan 07 20:08:46 Decimate: it's a x.y.z it's a y update Jan 07 20:08:50 i love palm... but am mad we dont get that updated design Jan 07 20:08:51 The button is useless. Jan 07 20:08:52 I wonder how long verizon will be exclusive with the palm pre + Jan 07 20:08:56 the pixi has an LED still but no button, so I'd imagine there's still some indicator there Jan 07 20:08:59 which I wouldn't expect X update yet for those features Jan 07 20:09:07 i forgot does LED notification only light up the small LED and not the button or both? Jan 07 20:09:08 yep. you can see it in the videos so i'm not giving anything away Jan 07 20:09:16 for the massive performance improvements in Luna, yeah, that.s 2.0.0 Jan 07 20:09:17 it has the little cylon led Jan 07 20:09:24 JMyaDaGod: is it exclusive, it doesn't make sense to have 2 versions of the same device. Jan 07 20:09:25 where the button was Jan 07 20:09:32 ah Jan 07 20:09:34 they were talking about that palm mobile hotspot app..is that verizon only? Jan 07 20:09:36 really Jan 07 20:09:36 geist: yeah, noticed that - it's a little horizontal line Jan 07 20:09:40 So *that's* why the led button notification stuff never got released Jan 07 20:09:44 a shame the hotspot is for vzw pre's only .. we'll have to figure that one out Jan 07 20:09:44 Decimate: correct. Jan 07 20:09:44 that seems cool Jan 07 20:09:46 err uncommented Jan 07 20:09:57 Templarian: dammit. Jan 07 20:10:07 i wish we'd do a cool multicolor light. my buddies at android finally got that in the nexus 1 Jan 07 20:10:09 Decimate: They have to pay extra. Jan 07 20:10:10 bpadalino|work: shouldnt be hard Jan 07 20:10:22 It's not like it's just free. Jan 07 20:10:24 paint chips off middle button too so nice not to be concerned with that. Jan 07 20:10:26 we had that at Danger (where me and about half of android came from) for the tmo sidekick Jan 07 20:10:27 PuffTheMagic: hows freetether? Jan 07 20:10:34 and having a nice RGB led is great for notifications Jan 07 20:10:50 Is the unlock screen on the andriod devices patent....the dots? Jan 07 20:10:51 Multi-colour LED would be nice. Jan 07 20:10:52 gkatsev_zhunter: stalled now, waiting for palms new apis for their hotspot app Jan 07 20:10:54 yeah at first I assumed it was RGB Jan 07 20:10:56 geist: it is RGB? Jan 07 20:11:01 sadly no. i wish we would Jan 07 20:11:02 Let the user choose. Jan 07 20:11:04 geist: rgb led's are nice Jan 07 20:11:05 s/api/service calls/ Jan 07 20:11:05 PuffTheMagic meant: gkatsev_zhunter: stalled now, waiting for palms new service callss for their hotspot app Jan 07 20:11:08 RGB LED is coming? Jan 07 20:11:13 but it doesn't seem to fit with palm's vision for this stuff, i guess Jan 07 20:11:17 PuffTheMagic: what can it do now? BT tether? Jan 07 20:11:25 gkatsev_zhunter: bt and usb Jan 07 20:11:26 their ID is going after simpler. "pebble in the stream" I think is the metaphor Jan 07 20:12:03 destinal: how about "WebOS Internals: We Did It First (after Palm)" Jan 07 20:12:07 you all caught thee open app cat push aapi annoinecement? Jan 07 20:12:14 I everyone still updatung app catalog every min???? Jan 07 20:12:28 pebble in stream, rock on finger...rgb led would be cool Jan 07 20:12:32 Is* Jan 07 20:12:32 I'm in a sprint data service hole, so no. Jan 07 20:12:38 *shrug* Jan 07 20:12:39 damn, wish I could get to sshd on my emulator. ugh Jan 07 20:12:41 JMyaDaGod: wait till two pacific Jan 07 20:12:49 you can't always get what you want. a wise man once said that Jan 07 20:12:52 lmorchard: ssh localhost 5522 Jan 07 20:12:57 rwhitby: lol Jan 07 20:12:57 Any word on the costs of the new 3d games? Jan 07 20:12:58 no games :( Jan 07 20:13:04 GAMES ARE UP!!! Jan 07 20:13:06 but if you try sometimes... you might find.... you get what you neeeed Jan 07 20:13:08 xalbo, nfs will be more than 10bucks Jan 07 20:13:12 rwhitby: Oh. /facepalm Thanks :) Jan 07 20:13:12 yay!!!! Jan 07 20:13:25 rboatright: or now Jan 07 20:13:31 sims $10 Jan 07 20:13:35 I was trying 222 on 10.0.2.22 or whatever ifconfig said Jan 07 20:13:48 heh Jan 07 20:13:50 whats the price? Jan 07 20:13:50 katie lied Jan 07 20:13:53 sims here I come (well when I get into a data coverage area) Jan 07 20:13:56 nfs not up yet Jan 07 20:13:59 nfs? Jan 07 20:14:03 need for speed Jan 07 20:14:09 but the sims is there, $9.99 Jan 07 20:14:09 not the file system Jan 07 20:14:11 x-plane 9! Jan 07 20:14:14 no i know was asking where is it LOL Jan 07 20:14:20 youch Jan 07 20:14:25 although really Jan 07 20:14:26 lol, oregon trail Jan 07 20:14:28 bbl talk to you afteer seven pm Jan 07 20:14:30 the pre battery life is awful as stands Jan 07 20:14:36 playing a 3d accelerated game on this thing? Jan 07 20:14:43 en0x: is x-plane there or you would like it to be? Jan 07 20:14:45 shouldn't be too long an experience O_o Jan 07 20:14:45 kesne's yo dawg is up as well Jan 07 20:14:59 FuMan: same with an iphone Jan 07 20:15:01 jacques, xplane in app catalog now! Jan 07 20:15:02 x-plane is there Jan 07 20:15:06 ooh, xplane Jan 07 20:15:10 en0x: WOW Jan 07 20:15:26 wow, flight sim Jan 07 20:15:32 10 bucks Jan 07 20:15:39 I wonder who did the x-plane port Jan 07 20:15:49 "laminar research" Jan 07 20:15:49 lol Jan 07 20:15:49 xcomp, id say the iphone battery life sports at least double the usage of the pre to start out though O_o Jan 07 20:15:50 * rwhitby uses the last bit of is $25 visa debit card to buy x-plane Jan 07 20:16:00 asphalt 5 Jan 07 20:16:00 ;) Jan 07 20:16:11 any multiplayer games? Jan 07 20:16:13 FuMan: not lately Jan 07 20:16:19 i wish we could bill to sprint bill LMAO Jan 07 20:16:20 the racing game is online multiplayer Jan 07 20:16:21 pre battery life improved substantially after 1.3.5 Jan 07 20:16:26 lol android just got kicked in the balls Jan 07 20:16:26 :D Jan 07 20:16:27 hahaha Jan 07 20:16:30 via bluetooth and web Jan 07 20:16:38 sweet Jan 07 20:16:47 Shame there's no 1.3.5 in the uk yet Jan 07 20:16:48 wow, more games than i was expecting Jan 07 20:16:49 Android is really behind lol Jan 07 20:16:53 * FuMan could get down on some golf. Jan 07 20:16:59 the asphalt looks nice Jan 07 20:17:08 I want to dogfight in 3d flight sim multiplayer wifi using the accelerometer Jan 07 20:17:08 has anyone dl'd any games yet? does the audio work on tetris now? Jan 07 20:17:17 can we assume audio works now? Jan 07 20:17:23 hmm Jan 07 20:17:23 has anyone been able to DL NfS? Jan 07 20:17:35 what will the doubled ram in the palm pre plus affect? ability to open more cards? Jan 07 20:17:52 golf, monopoly, sims, asphalt 5, scrabble, oregon trail, x-plane, tetris, sudoku Jan 07 20:17:58 does this mean that europe is skipping over 1.3.5 directly to 1.4? Jan 07 20:17:59 WillJitsu: yeah Jan 07 20:18:07 where is need for speed?! Jan 07 20:18:12 en0x: not there Jan 07 20:18:24 xcomp: is that all it will affect? Jan 07 20:18:25 I remember playing oregon trail when i was in 2nd grade woot Jan 07 20:18:27 wtf Jan 07 20:18:32 WillJitsu: pretty much Jan 07 20:18:42 * en0x want nfs! Jan 07 20:18:45 You died of dysentery Jan 07 20:18:51 So how many sudoku games are available on WebOS now? Jan 07 20:19:06 whoa, their servers must either be slammed or asphalt 5 is a huge file Jan 07 20:19:09 doesn't matter, ea's version will be better than them all, supposedly Jan 07 20:19:16 i guess the palm beat apple to a buttonless device Jan 07 20:19:24 well, minus the whole keyboard thing Jan 07 20:19:27 LOL Palm released other games before NFS because itll make people want to buy something ....then later in day they will buy NFS also' Jan 07 20:19:29 * xcomp is about to enter card details and purchase an app for the very first time Jan 07 20:19:41 me too, xcomp! my first one Jan 07 20:19:46 JMyaDaGod: smart Jan 07 20:19:58 i already bought few Jan 07 20:19:58 3d oregon trail? so hot Jan 07 20:19:58 :p Jan 07 20:20:11 only one im thinkin of getting is xplane as of now Jan 07 20:20:14 * nt4cats was wondering why people would want a network file system for their Pre, and then why they'd go to Palm to download it Jan 07 20:20:19 i have xplane on pc Jan 07 20:20:48 en0x: is it a good game never played? Jan 07 20:20:51 nt4cats: yeah I thought that too first time I saw it mentioned. Jan 07 20:21:04 JMyaDaGod, if you like flight simulator then yes Jan 07 20:21:18 nt4cats: network file system client already works on pre Jan 07 20:21:29 The new dev center is sexy. Jan 07 20:21:31 Grabbing X-Plane also Jan 07 20:21:46 want sims, x-plane, nfs Jan 07 20:21:54 nfs nfs nfs!!! Jan 07 20:22:01 and a month off work Jan 07 20:22:03 or maybe the racing game too Asphalt Jan 07 20:22:12 make that two months Jan 07 20:22:18 * xcomp buys x-plane Jan 07 20:22:18 yeah, i love xplane on the device Jan 07 20:22:22 lost a bunch of time to it Jan 07 20:22:25 nfs is fake! ;-P Jan 07 20:22:27 aww yeah, new apps are line in app store Jan 07 20:22:32 live Jan 07 20:22:37 it's not flashy, but just good fun if you're into simulators Jan 07 20:22:47 * jacques is into simulators Jan 07 20:23:09 * JMyaDaGod reaches into wallet to look for money to buy apps lol Jan 07 20:23:12 geist: can we import our own aircraft into this X-plane ? Jan 07 20:23:14 Downloads are pretty slow for the time being. Getting slammed pretty hard Jan 07 20:23:26 we need to be able to gift other people app catalog stuff Jan 07 20:23:27 I think you can in the PC x-plane Jan 07 20:23:36 I am pretty bad at need for speed Jan 07 20:23:40 i guess webos 1.4 will make a good bday present for me Jan 07 20:23:42 zsocwerkin: yeah that would be very useful Jan 07 20:23:46 For Mario Kart Wii I have to use a stick, I can't use the wheel Jan 07 20:23:49 So this is a similar problem Jan 07 20:24:03 zsocwerkin : yea gift apps is a must Jan 07 20:24:10 i'd highly recommend downloading over wifi Jan 07 20:24:12 Hey, I know we're all hyped for the new apps and such, but let's talk about the mobile hotspot, because if we already did I wasn't here. Jan 07 20:24:17 oregon trail!!!!! LOL Jan 07 20:24:17 Do we get screwed or not? Jan 07 20:24:18 some of the games are pretty darn big Jan 07 20:24:29 lol "X-Plane for is the most powerful..." Jan 07 20:24:30 nfs was something like 250 mb? Jan 07 20:24:30 yeah x-plane is taking a really long time and I'm on wifi Jan 07 20:24:33 I guess it's good they moved over to the media partition Jan 07 20:24:44 thought it's closer to 1GB Jan 07 20:24:57 Is it? Jan 07 20:24:58 cryptofs ftw Jan 07 20:24:59 ugh. that 16GiB is starting to look more useful by the minute Jan 07 20:25:02 I must be thinking of something else Jan 07 20:25:13 hell yea 16gb looks better with a 1 gig app lol Jan 07 20:25:23 lol Jan 07 20:25:33 that's a big app Jan 07 20:25:38 looks liek nfs was a fake ;( Jan 07 20:25:43 screw u Jan 07 20:25:43 :P Jan 07 20:25:48 when at&t gets the pre, maybe it will have micro-sd :-D Jan 07 20:25:50 can u delete apps an reinstall for free if u run out of space???????? Jan 07 20:25:59 yes Jan 07 20:26:01 yes Jan 07 20:26:01 i hope the 30hz accelerometer upgrade makes the racing games playable Jan 07 20:26:02 JMya: yes Jan 07 20:26:06 are these apps in the catalog now ? Jan 07 20:26:09 so, uh, maybe a silly question. if you full wipe your device or get your pre replaced, does it download all your huge games from the catalog too? I guess if they're background ... Jan 07 20:26:12 i dont see them Jan 07 20:26:15 JMyaDaGod, yes Jan 07 20:26:18 destinal: in the background Jan 07 20:26:40 engagdet seems confused about pre+ Jan 07 20:26:45 Here I thought quakewas a large download lol Jan 07 20:26:50 They said it has "twice the internal memory: 16gb" and then never mentions ram Jan 07 20:27:03 Yes they are in the catalog now. Asphat 5 is 214MB Jan 07 20:27:03 chrisa: engadget doesn't know what RAM is Jan 07 20:27:05 origan trail = AWESOME Jan 07 20:27:09 twice the storage and twice the RAM yeah? Jan 07 20:27:13 yep Jan 07 20:27:21 yeah, folks always get them confused Jan 07 20:27:31 i dont care about storage Jan 07 20:27:34 and ram never shows up on spec sheets since it's in theory invisible to end users Jan 07 20:27:35 some ppl just say "memory" Jan 07 20:27:36 i want twice ram Jan 07 20:27:36 I can't believe all this documentation they wrote. Jan 07 20:27:51 Templarian: which? Jan 07 20:27:52 documentation ? Jan 07 20:28:09 So wait is it twice ram and storage or just storage? Jan 07 20:28:11 * rwhitby is stuck on thinking of a company name for the open source developer application ... Jan 07 20:28:11 The whole new site Jan 07 20:28:12 several of these app descriptions suck Jan 07 20:28:18 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1833&Itemid=321 Jan 07 20:28:22 512MB + 16GB Jan 07 20:28:27 rwhitby: webosinternals? Jan 07 20:28:28 I don't understand the stock market Jan 07 20:28:28 Just how much they did. Jan 07 20:28:34 We went down following the announcements Jan 07 20:28:38 jon mentioned it in passing Jan 07 20:28:43 I'd buy the board games if they're multi-player (meaning I can hand my phone to my wife/kids for them to take a turn) ... Jan 07 20:28:48 rwhitby: where does one apply? Jan 07 20:28:50 and you'll find out as soon as someone buys it, so i see no reason why i can't tell you Jan 07 20:29:00 jacques: developer.palm.com Jan 07 20:29:03 i think that now we will get a flood of apps Jan 07 20:29:09 rwhitby: hire me please :p Jan 07 20:29:14 and Country: Australia is available :-) Jan 07 20:29:15 rwhitby: thanks Jan 07 20:29:17 I had no idea we were releasing the PDK Jan 07 20:29:17 palm stock was peak at around 1pm Jan 07 20:29:26 rwhitby: they put AU there just for you Jan 07 20:29:29 Where's that Appetite thing they were talking about? Jan 07 20:29:29 I love how I often have no idea what some parts of the company are doing Jan 07 20:29:31 chrisa: you're not yet. Jan 07 20:29:38 http://www.projectappetite.com/ Jan 07 20:29:40 Appstache: projectappetite Jan 07 20:29:45 rwhitby: I mean, I didn't know it would become public Jan 07 20:29:45 is nfs in the catalog yet? Jan 07 20:29:56 no Jan 07 20:29:57 the only PDK available today is http://bit.ly/webos-internals-pdk ;-) Jan 07 20:30:02 there are no file systems in the catalog, lol Jan 07 20:30:33 Everyone is tuned to CES 2010? Jan 07 20:30:38 gkatsev_zhunter, what a bummer :( Jan 07 20:30:40 stock market = anticipation, the rise came in the past week Jan 07 20:30:45 tuned to oregon trail on their pre Jan 07 20:30:46 KGB_Smurf, WOOT?! Jan 07 20:30:55 =)) Jan 07 20:30:58 is the oregon trail fun?! Jan 07 20:31:16 i just tried to download gameloft game and luna crashed heh Jan 07 20:31:18 hella fun! Jan 07 20:31:27 Oregon Trail is only fun if I can buy 99 boxes of bullets and hunt my way to victory like in the old days Jan 07 20:31:28 guessing xplane is a 200 - 300meg ipk Jan 07 20:31:30 If anyone buys the board games (e.g. monopoly, scrabble) please let me know Jan 07 20:31:36 I am so excited I can barely contain myself Jan 07 20:31:42 Feeling dumb: Is there a simple thing I'm missing to get this error when trying to get sftp working? exec: /opt/libexec/sftp-server: No such file or directory Jan 07 20:31:44 it was fun when it was guetto black and white... Jan 07 20:31:56 I'm ssh'ing to the right address/port, and that file exists. Jan 07 20:32:01 I wonder if this will explode the piracy scene on the Pre, like with the iPhone. Jan 07 20:32:30 appstache: im sure it will Jan 07 20:32:39 There won't be piracy scene with Palm.. they opened apps to the web Jan 07 20:32:42 nothing is really worth pirating right now Jan 07 20:33:12 i missed when i could get all my apps free for my touch :P Jan 07 20:33:17 yeah Jan 07 20:33:21 http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/07/palm-swings-open-doors-to-app-catalogs-innards/ Jan 07 20:33:27 all the good apps for the pre are free right now Jan 07 20:33:31 FroZenBinAry: yes there is... Jan 07 20:33:40 oh yeah.. since its open now... does that mean homebrew is out? Jan 07 20:33:47 yes, supertux is free Jan 07 20:34:03 I'm referring to the App Catalog games, really. Jan 07 20:34:05 frozenbinary, did you miss the announcement where they released all those games today.. Jan 07 20:34:06 Domingan: no, homebrew is still valid Jan 07 20:34:09 those are worth pirating Jan 07 20:34:13 homebrew was actively supported by Palm as far as I know Jan 07 20:34:23 decimate: thats what im talking about, but i looked in the app catalog and i dont seeee themmmm Jan 07 20:34:34 We've done as much as we can to help homebrew without actually involving ourselves Jan 07 20:34:35 oh, i just did another search Jan 07 20:34:38 and i do see em Jan 07 20:34:41 and without shutting down homebrew work Jan 07 20:34:41 Honestly I haven't purchased a single game on my iPod touch, but I've got hundereds of costly apps. Jan 07 20:34:42 yay Jan 07 20:34:42 They got rid of orange button>.......... Jan 07 20:34:45 anyone install them yet? Jan 07 20:34:51 yeah but why keep 2 diff records.. why not have one place? all the have to do is submit to get a url Jan 07 20:34:56 I just don't want Palm to include the internals team with piracy and lock us out. Jan 07 20:35:03 i wish i could... no moneyy :/ Jan 07 20:35:17 i dont feel like blowing 10 dollars on an app for my phone Jan 07 20:35:19 lol Jan 07 20:35:24 id rather play space invaders Jan 07 20:35:25 Appstache: did you hear them giving props to the homebrew community on stage? Jan 07 20:35:28 if icould ever get it to boot Jan 07 20:35:35 The internals team (and I'm not one of them) have been awesome about being a) open about what they're doing -and- b) protecting the rights/property of Palm+Sprint Jan 07 20:35:40 palm sees hackers as partners, not potential pirates Jan 07 20:35:43 Homebrew ROCKS!! Jan 07 20:35:55 I did, but if suddenly homebrew gets paired with piracy, what then? Jan 07 20:36:02 big difference between hackers and pirates Jan 07 20:36:17 Appstache: it will not Jan 07 20:36:20 it won't be.. they OS is homebrew - linux Jan 07 20:36:22 if there are pirates they won't be part of this community Jan 07 20:36:22 =) Jan 07 20:36:30 yes, these are hackers not crackers Jan 07 20:36:43 homebrew != pirating Jan 07 20:36:54 pre plus has no button, a better slider, a better keyboard, and more storage Jan 07 20:36:56 Is touchstone back not smooth? Jan 07 20:36:59 sprint BETTER get this. Jan 07 20:37:06 hunting in origin trail is still hilarius and fun!!!! Jan 07 20:37:09 Appstache: remember that Palm made it EASIER to "root" your phone (really to put your phone in dev mode) in an update. Don't underestimate that step. Jan 07 20:37:22 Decimate: better slider? damn Jan 07 20:37:23 JMyaDaGod: its smooth, but rubbery. i like it better actually. feels nicer Jan 07 20:37:42 to internals guys.. does more RAM actually mean better perfomance in a multitasking system? or does it just mean more cards.? Jan 07 20:37:47 yup, engadget reports all their slider complaints are gone Jan 07 20:37:52 yeah, replacing upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart with webos20090606 Jan 07 20:37:55 interesting Jan 07 20:37:55 gkatsev_zhunter: hmm but not as smooth as factory? Jan 07 20:38:03 I'm sure palm is all for our community as we are right now, but in the future who knows. Jan 07 20:38:06 stuff like that pisses me off...im always an early adopter and i always get screwed for it. Jan 07 20:38:16 Because nothing we've done so far has really taken any profit from them. Jan 07 20:38:19 i still use upupdowndownleft........... LOl Jan 07 20:38:25 Me too Jan 07 20:38:25 JMyaDaGod: no, as it is rubbery. it cant be as smooth as plastic. but i like the feeling of it better Jan 07 20:38:25 hopefully in 1.4 fw they will move some of OS animations to GPU Jan 07 20:38:28 I use permanent dev mode Jan 07 20:38:29 xenophen: mostly more cards .. but it will have to swap less Jan 07 20:38:42 me 2 jaques Jan 07 20:38:46 yeah, i turn it on once and thats it Jan 07 20:38:46 jacques: my dev mode is on before the phone is flashed ;-) Jan 07 20:38:52 nt4cats... that's what i figured Jan 07 20:39:04 jacques: then you're running your phone without a firewall, open to any net scan/attack Jan 07 20:39:10 rwhitby: me too - meta-doctor FTW Jan 07 20:39:11 ok i gotta get ready to start my day lol almost 4pm pzz everyone Jan 07 20:39:12 i could see that some native binary apps could use the extra ram, but could the SDK limit that? Jan 07 20:39:25 nt4cats: I think you have no clue what you're saying. Jan 07 20:39:53 jacques: iptables doesn't run when your phone is in dev mode. Jan 07 20:40:03 jacques: but you're right, I'm an idiot. Jan 07 20:40:18 lmorchard: any clue why sometimes swiping pages goes the wrong direction? Jan 07 20:40:29 Whoa whoa whoa, let's not bring any hostility into this channel. Jan 07 20:40:31 nt4cats: iptables runs at all times, dev mode or not. Jan 07 20:40:35 I cannot get novaproxy.py to connect to my Pre, am I using Win7 32bit, it worked after using webosdoctor, but now it wont. It works ona x64 system but there are no qualcomm diagnose x64 drivers. Is there a way to clean uninstall/reinstall Novacommd. I tried removing it using control panel and also installing it manually to no avail.... Jan 07 20:40:43 nt4cats: stop reading precentral forums Jan 07 20:40:45 rwhitby: different ruleset then? Jan 07 20:41:05 UZHans2: No idea :/ Jan 07 20:41:07 nt4cats: type "iptables -L -v" and get the facts for yourself, rather than reading forum posts. Jan 07 20:41:13 i really could care less about the games though Jan 07 20:41:15 i have a ps3 Jan 07 20:41:17 and a wii Jan 07 20:41:25 * nt4cats is putting his phone in dev mode to see ... Jan 07 20:41:26 i need "useful" apps for the pre Jan 07 20:41:31 PuffTheMagic: you'll care when tuxracer is ported! :P Jan 07 20:41:33 watashi: get the SDK. allows you to access the phone without all the novaproxy.py stuff Jan 07 20:41:34 i want a voip app Jan 07 20:41:36 lol Jan 07 20:41:45 egaudet_zombie: you're working on tuxracer? nice Jan 07 20:41:54 gkatsev_zhunter: yea ETA: 3 months Jan 07 20:41:57 lol Jan 07 20:42:00 haha Jan 07 20:42:23 Watashi: make sure your dev mode is on, you can also uninstall "Palm Pre" from the device manager when usb cable is plugged in. It worked for me to get it connected again. Jan 07 20:42:34 is it possible to flash a phone from verizon to sprint? Jan 07 20:42:39 yes Jan 07 20:42:41 hey so is GLESv2 strictly GLES....v2 and GLES_CM 1.1 stuff? Jan 07 20:42:42 watashi: http://install.preware.org/ Jan 07 20:43:03 i have the VZ palm pre/pixi lab software Jan 07 20:43:12 hi Jan 07 20:43:18 hmm, would doctoring the pre plus to sprint work? :O Jan 07 20:43:34 who is in charge for the Doom app? Jan 07 20:43:48 dont think so, sprint only activates ESN numbers that are registered to them Jan 07 20:43:55 I would have a small suggestion: add z per default to the same keymapping as y Jan 07 20:44:02 gkatsev_zhunter , I am not a dev, I am only trying to work my way out to get the SPC, would the SDK be easier to setup than this novaproxy.py?? Jan 07 20:44:08 well , you can do it, but im not saying its kosher Jan 07 20:44:13 since i'm not able to run doom/quake, would that mean i could likely not run need for speed? Jan 07 20:44:14 european user tend to have y and z switched Jan 07 20:44:15 yuo need a sprint MEID Jan 07 20:44:16 I have been with palm/sptint sice treo 600... its so disturbing that they would offer to verizon and not sprint Jan 07 20:44:36 if its possible for me to get the pre plus on sprint, im doing it. Jan 07 20:45:13 xenophon: )ninstall mytether and doc your phone :) Jan 07 20:45:33 watashi: yes. it would Jan 07 20:45:34 check mobil-files.net Jan 07 20:45:38 Domingan: mmhmm... and that is more important to me thang gaming Jan 07 20:46:03 mobilefiles on google i mean Jan 07 20:46:29 xenophon: it is also not suported by sprint :) Jan 07 20:46:58 understood... will be interesting to see if n4s will work Jan 07 20:47:09 i'm guessin it won't Jan 07 20:48:02 just finished dl'ing Asphalt 5! Jan 07 20:48:19 pc crash sigh Jan 07 20:48:24 crap, just can't seem to get sftp working. grr Jan 07 20:48:34 OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Jan 07 20:48:38 this is the longest install I've seen on the pre Jan 07 20:48:39 lmorchard: install openssh sftp server in preware Jan 07 20:48:39 destinal-wirc: i had an idea Jan 07 20:48:43 it's been installing for at least 30 seconds Jan 07 20:48:50 ..45 Jan 07 20:48:52 destinal-wirc: we dont need to use sdl for a terminal Jan 07 20:49:00 glass, thats why they introduced background installation Jan 07 20:49:01 hahaha Jan 07 20:49:05 oh? Jan 07 20:49:06 destinal-wirc: we can probably use the vfb code in their sdl patch directly Jan 07 20:49:12 rwhitby: Did that, looks installed Jan 07 20:49:12 ah Jan 07 20:49:14 and get a real terminal Jan 07 20:49:19 oh wait, in preware Jan 07 20:49:22 rwhitby: I was told about the 'no iptables in dev mode' here as a matter of fact when I first logged in months ago to get advice on installing dropbear on my pre ... I didn't get it from a forum post. Jan 07 20:49:23 good idea Jan 07 20:49:25 real vt that is Jan 07 20:49:32 I did it according to the instructions on the wiki Jan 07 20:49:49 sooo... 512MB ram is still being questioned.... is there a statement from palm that confirms? Jan 07 20:49:54 lmorchard: yep, you can get everything you need from Preware now. the wiki instructions have a deprecated notice at the top Jan 07 20:50:05 hrm Jan 07 20:50:12 xenophon: it has more ram Jan 07 20:50:13 PuffTheMagic: real vt is oxymoronix. but I want it. PLEASE. npapi term crashing is killing me Jan 07 20:50:13 puff: well have to get/make piranha headers Jan 07 20:50:14 yeah, seriously -- it's been 2 minutes of installing Jan 07 20:50:17 lots of things change when I'm away for a few weeks heh Jan 07 20:50:19 source? Jan 07 20:50:21 xenophon: confirmed here by real Palm engineers Jan 07 20:50:30 xenophon: it's confirmed Jan 07 20:50:32 k, thanks Jan 07 20:51:03 rwhitby: confirmed ram boost, but also amount? (512m)? Jan 07 20:51:12 512MiB Jan 07 20:51:17 yes Jan 07 20:51:19 rwhitby: I'm just hoping that webos 1.4 will feature some kind of improved swapping mechanism that reduces the frequency of "too many cards" error messages Jan 07 20:51:31 at least to help those of us who can't afford to switch to verizon Jan 07 20:51:33 kk Jan 07 20:51:51 puff: at least I think so Jan 07 20:52:08 PuffTheMagic: there's still cool gst stuff we could do. Jan 07 20:52:28 was the flash demo on a pre plus? will it perhaps require 512MB or at least to run better? Jan 07 20:52:37 engadget already got a hands on demo for pre plus Jan 07 20:53:10 slider is apparently much better Jan 07 20:53:21 I think any pre Jan 07 20:53:26 better keyboard Jan 07 20:53:30 in case anyone cares, it's taking asphalt 5 more than 5+ minutes to install Jan 07 20:53:41 I can't wait :-) Jan 07 20:53:44 armv7 only it seems Jan 07 20:53:57 is flash atm Jan 07 20:54:02 xenophon: flash is for pre with 1.4 Jan 07 20:54:21 I just bought x-plane taking forever to download 210mb lol Jan 07 20:54:42 it's a shame the pixi feels like a lame duck :( Jan 07 20:54:42 still waiting for xplane to finish downloading here Jan 07 20:54:43 so... Jan 07 20:54:46 webos is a browser Jan 07 20:54:52 freakout: nice shoutouts in your PIC live blog :-) Jan 07 20:54:54 xcomp, after reflashing my pre to 1.3.1 I never had that issue anymore Jan 07 20:54:57 the web brower in it is technically a browser plugin Jan 07 20:55:02 engadgets demo video has NFS undercover Jan 07 20:55:02 yes Jan 07 20:55:03 so flash is a plugin for the plugin? Jan 07 20:55:08 no Jan 07 20:55:10 lol Jan 07 20:55:23 en0x: really? Jan 07 20:55:29 flash is a lesser, worse plugin than silverlight Jan 07 20:55:35 i still get the error sometimes with two or 3 cards open on 1.3.5 Jan 07 20:55:38 oil: games are webGL. it means you could play these same games in a web browser with no plugins Jan 07 20:55:41 xcomp, yap in 1.2.1 i had this crap all the time Jan 07 20:55:54 what? Jan 07 20:55:54 xcomp, in 1.2.1 i had it even with no apps open :P Jan 07 20:55:56 zsocwerkin: i know how the games work Jan 07 20:56:00 tried to setup scratchbox2: no directory include in arm7/usr Jan 07 20:56:06 had it with no apps open on 1.3.1 Jan 07 20:56:07 no,these games aren't webgl Jan 07 20:56:08 it's better on 1.3.5 Jan 07 20:56:22 but i'm not satisfied at all Jan 07 20:56:34 maybe I should take the plunge and doctor my phone for the first time ever Jan 07 20:56:39 they are opengles in sdl Jan 07 20:57:08 palm says webgl and o3d are technologies they are "watching" closely for future potential Jan 07 20:57:15 Hrm. I installed Preware, then installed OpenSSH SFTP, got the keys straight, but still get the error sh: /usr/libexec/sftp-server: not found Jan 07 20:57:36 meaning they don't want to commit yet unless they know that the adoption will be there to make them money Jan 07 20:57:37 metaview: your make stage probably failed Jan 07 20:57:41 a position I perfectly understand Jan 07 20:57:48 like mine did earlier Jan 07 20:57:53 lmorchard: oh, you're on the emulator, not the Pre. Jan 07 20:57:58 yup Jan 07 20:57:59 oil: sorry :p Jan 07 20:58:04 doesn't make sense for a company in palm's position to commit to webgl when nobody is using it yet Jan 07 20:58:10 destinal-wirc: creating dir by hand and rebuild works fine Jan 07 20:58:21 lol! as soon as Asphalt installed, and I tapped to launch, I got a too many cards error!!!! Jan 07 20:58:26 no cards open! Jan 07 20:58:31 Trying to see if I can eventually get sftp or sshfs to my emulator to poke at patch hacking from a desktop editor Jan 07 20:58:33 rwhitby can you fix libsdl package in crosscompile? my computer died Jan 07 20:58:36 xcomp: what commit? webos uses gles2.0, webGL is a js wrapper for gles 2.0 Jan 07 20:58:55 zsocwerkin: I guess from a support standpoint Jan 07 20:58:56 * oil downloads the best game today Jan 07 20:59:02 oregon trail Jan 07 20:59:03 lmorchard: for the emulator, you need to create a second network interface in virtualbox, host only, vboxnet0, and use that to connect to ssh Jan 07 20:59:03 xcomp: current webos developers use js. it just 'makes sense' Jan 07 20:59:11 Ah, okay Jan 07 20:59:12 oil: please tell me how it is Jan 07 20:59:13 zsocwerkin: you do have a point Jan 07 20:59:18 lol Jan 07 20:59:19 mkdir -p /usr/local/stuff causes big crashes in sbox2 Jan 07 20:59:20 oil: DITTO Jan 07 20:59:21 I was wondering if I'd need to do something like that Jan 07 20:59:37 loading screens are new to WebOS Jan 07 20:59:41 * oil was mostly joking Jan 07 20:59:42 * lmorchard goes back to banging on the virtual box with a rock Jan 07 21:00:04 * Domingan was not Jan 07 21:00:19 its awesome! Jan 07 21:00:25 15+ second load times in ashpalt Jan 07 21:01:42 * xcomp just burned 20% battery downloading and installing x-plane Jan 07 21:01:43 * zsocwerkin has a point.. on the top of his head Jan 07 21:01:45 PuffTheMagic: did you ever get that code from palm for the wifi module Jan 07 21:01:52 these games are huge Jan 07 21:01:57 sampson: no the said f' you Jan 07 21:01:59 rwhitby: Hmm, well the network interface worked for ssh, at least, but my sftp-server's still not found Jan 07 21:02:09 time to call the FSF Jan 07 21:02:14 I'm in the air on x-plane :-) Jan 07 21:02:15 wondering if I borked something in the optware bootstrap setup somewhere Jan 07 21:02:35 How is it rwhitby? Jan 07 21:02:40 Mine is still downloading Jan 07 21:02:57 nice Jan 07 21:03:17 so does anyone know if these are just direct ports of iphone games? Jan 07 21:03:36 i would think so Jan 07 21:03:37 ok, played Asphalt for 3 or so minutes, it only lagged out once. The music is anoying, but the s ound effects are pretty cool. The accelorometer is FAST Jan 07 21:03:55 EA said it took them just a couple of weeks to port to the pre Jan 07 21:03:56 it reminds me of playing racing games on my old ps1 Jan 07 21:04:12 Flaming death. Jan 07 21:04:34 Hoping that the pretty standard OS behind webOS will make lots of apps easier to port versus the alien technology behind iphone and android Jan 07 21:04:38 I want to get scrabble Jan 07 21:05:03 i dont see need for speed yet? Jan 07 21:05:16 lmorchard: it already is... the standard stuff palm is using has already made it possible to port a lot of legacy games Jan 07 21:05:22 NFS is not in there yet Jan 07 21:05:31 lmorchard: already look at the stuff that were simple "ports" Jan 07 21:06:10 x-plane is worth the $10, imho. Jan 07 21:06:24 now to see how they did it ... Jan 07 21:06:55 rwhitby: type = "game"? :D Jan 07 21:07:29 heh Jan 07 21:09:00 i dont know if i can fork up the dough for these SWEET new games Jan 07 21:09:43 rwhitby: how long did it take for x-plane to install for you? Jan 07 21:09:48 aw dang, new pre has double the ram Jan 07 21:10:21 and better build quality, and 16gb for these large new games. i hope sprint gets a 4g version later this year lol Jan 07 21:10:35 xcomp: long time Jan 07 21:10:40 and no pointless button either Jan 07 21:10:50 yeah the button is stupid Jan 07 21:11:05 what can we do with it? except to zoom out? Jan 07 21:11:12 destinal-wirc: SDL + GTK/SDL + VTE Jan 07 21:11:25 guys it's over a year later since they built the pres, upgrades happen Jan 07 21:11:37 rwhitby: after the download finished? I'm wondering because my pre still has that issue with not finishing installs until I manually rescan luna Jan 07 21:11:45 and there's tethering that won't break every other feature of the phone Jan 07 21:11:49 Pre Plus Xtra with 32GB and 4G for Sprint coming this fall. Jan 07 21:11:53 xcomp: it's a *big* game. Jan 07 21:11:55 :P Jan 07 21:12:17 GUISE Jan 07 21:12:18 xplane is 210mb Jan 07 21:12:26 i bought asphalt 5 on the store Jan 07 21:12:27 how big is it Jan 07 21:12:34 cause my wifi connection is taking 30 mins to dl Jan 07 21:12:40 i know, i'll just wait until a GSM version comes out with similar stats. Jan 07 21:12:41 i have a 20mbps connection Jan 07 21:12:52 I have a 30mbps connection and xplane is taking forever Jan 07 21:12:53 200-something megs. if you tap the title of the app it tells you Jan 07 21:12:59 their servers are happened Jan 07 21:12:59 oh sick Jan 07 21:13:04 lmae none of these games are available inc anada Jan 07 21:13:09 214.5mb Jan 07 21:13:13 hammered* Jan 07 21:13:21 it took me about 30 minutes to dl over wifi, then 10-15 minutes for the install to happen Jan 07 21:13:23 yeah i have about 100mb down Jan 07 21:13:37 what a bunch of sicko Jan 07 21:13:39 it looks like I will be doctoring my phone tonight Jan 07 21:13:39 what a bunch of sickos Jan 07 21:13:40 you cna't have ANY other card open with the new games Jan 07 21:13:49 destinal-wirc: type:game Jan 07 21:13:50 from what I've tested Jan 07 21:13:56 Palm uses one of the biggest Tier 2's in the world, the whole internet is slowing down right now. Jan 07 21:14:19 PuffTheMagic: what's sick? Jan 07 21:14:20 lol Jan 07 21:14:29 my xplane is just about finished Jan 07 21:14:31 which means we might have to close the games to get into email/messaging Jan 07 21:14:33 destinal-wirc: "requiredMemory": 64 Jan 07 21:14:34 rwhitby: yeah figured Jan 07 21:14:44 you can have a card open Jan 07 21:14:46 they demoed it Jan 07 21:14:49 sms in sims 3 Jan 07 21:14:55 glass: rubbish - xplane and preware running fine together Jan 07 21:14:55 yeah remember I wrote those up rwhitby? Jan 07 21:14:56 they demoed on a pre plus Jan 07 21:15:03 GAY Jan 07 21:15:04 I've got asphalt 5, email, engadget all opened and it's doing fine? Jan 07 21:15:15 just didn't need them to launch so didn't bother Jan 07 21:15:19 ok! I'll reboot then, thanks rwhitby Jan 07 21:15:40 heh, laminar-research left a CVS directory in there ... Jan 07 21:15:42 reboot always Jan 07 21:15:53 "# This file is generated by MacCVSClient." Jan 07 21:16:00 those screams of anguish you hear? are the GSM Pre owners begging for the update already Jan 07 21:16:05 do they have a video of palm's keynote yet? Jan 07 21:16:07 like me Jan 07 21:16:10 AAAARGH! Jan 07 21:16:17 "iphone/palm/apps/xplane_default" Jan 07 21:16:26 GSM pre doesn't matter anymore Jan 07 21:16:34 It is all Sprint and Verizon :P Jan 07 21:16:42 freakout: yeah, I can only run it on *one* of my Pre's ;-) Jan 07 21:16:55 Eguy: I bet those bastards at O2 are gonna what they did before - skip the halway update and just wait for 1.4 in Feb Jan 07 21:17:07 s/halway/halfway/ Jan 07 21:17:07 freakout meant: Eguy: I bet those bastards at O2 are gonna what they did before - skip the halfway update and just wait for 1.4 in Feb Jan 07 21:17:08 lol Jan 07 21:17:18 It is a good update to wait for Jan 07 21:17:57 freakout: you want a custom hack to make stuff work for now? oh but you can't get catalog games anyway :( Jan 07 21:18:02 xplane binary is 1MB Jan 07 21:18:08 lol Jan 07 21:18:17 what takes up the other 209mb? Jan 07 21:18:23 rwhitby: really? its path is iphone/palm/apps/xplane_default? lol Jan 07 21:18:24 destinal-wirc: yes please! I can wait for the catalog Jan 07 21:18:29 Eguy: graphics I'd imagine Jan 07 21:18:36 gkatsev_zhunter: that's the CVS repository path from which it was built. Jan 07 21:18:46 hahahaha Jan 07 21:18:49 thats great Jan 07 21:18:49 lol, thats kind of funny Jan 07 21:18:56 lol they use CVS for versioning? makes sense I suppose Jan 07 21:19:09 "# This file is generated by MacCVSClient." Jan 07 21:19:26 jacques, ping Jan 07 21:19:47 people still use cvs? Jan 07 21:19:51 Eguy: 203488KiB of resources Jan 07 21:19:54 Palm has a lot of phone with apple stuff Jan 07 21:19:59 wow! Jan 07 21:20:06 rwhitby: SOoooo do you like playing xplane better than tetris ?? Jan 07 21:20:15 s/phone/fun/ Jan 07 21:20:25 fun* Jan 07 21:21:07 just about done downloading Jan 07 21:21:40 * rwhitby puts on autopilot while hacking Jan 07 21:22:32 hooray, my sftp works and I can edit the launcher with MacVim \m/, Jan 07 21:22:39 engadget has the video up of the + Jan 07 21:22:39 (process:20711): LunaService-CRITICAL **: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken. Jan 07 21:23:06 still don't know if it has actually finished installing or not Jan 07 21:23:07 I wonder if palm has set up a pirate hunter group yet. Jan 07 21:23:30 I also have to say again how excellent it is that we can use quilt to patch webOS. Jan 07 21:23:45 had been using quilt for a few years before now, so happy to use it again :) Jan 07 21:24:05 zsoc|dunce: webOS isn't in Somalia yet Jan 07 21:24:38 the LED in the Pre+ is not a circle but a thin rectangle, a la Knight Rider :-) Jan 07 21:24:44 freakout-Pre: it is in somalia Jan 07 21:25:02 it wiggles when you swipe it Jan 07 21:25:03 they hijacked a freighter with 8 palm containers on it Jan 07 21:25:08 they're flush with pre's and pixi's now Jan 07 21:25:14 loot_: lol Jan 07 21:25:36 now somalia just needs cellular carriers and... electricity Jan 07 21:25:38 they'll be all set Jan 07 21:26:22 double lol Jan 07 21:26:23 loot_: no need for electricity Jan 07 21:26:29 just ask nigeria Jan 07 21:26:47 asphalt 5 almost done Jan 07 21:26:51 DONE Jan 07 21:26:57 wtf Jan 07 21:27:00 1.3.5.1? Jan 07 21:27:03 xcomp: ok theres a guy from nigeria sitting right next to me Jan 07 21:27:16 yokken: just a calender fix, update doesn't break patches Jan 07 21:27:18 what the fuck is 1.3.5.1? do i need to remove patches? Jan 07 21:27:20 okay thanks Jan 07 21:27:25 he said "you cant pull a 419 scam in the dark with a dead computer" Jan 07 21:27:36 loot_: don't give him your bank details! Jan 07 21:27:36 lol Jan 07 21:27:41 Just got a new notification I've never had before right after asphalt 5 died: "Application Error The application asphalt5 has quit unexpectedly" Jan 07 21:27:46 how do I take a screenshot of it? Jan 07 21:27:47 is he a prince? Jan 07 21:27:47 :( Jan 07 21:27:53 yes Jan 07 21:27:57 his face is on money Jan 07 21:27:59 woo breakin stuff Jan 07 21:28:17 loot_: yeah, ask him, he'll tell you that nigeria has a burgeoning mobile phone industry despite major problems with power infrastructure Jan 07 21:28:21 he does ocassionally come into the office and yell "YES, YES, FUCK YOU TOO!" Jan 07 21:28:42 lol you cant throw away the 1.3.5.1 notification Jan 07 21:28:50 woohoo, tap to launch! Jan 07 21:28:59 installing!!!!! Jan 07 21:29:17 too many cards Jan 07 21:29:22 hmm. Jan 07 21:29:36 i wonder if the fact that I have both gmail and exchange sync makes my memory problem worse Jan 07 21:29:45 lol Jan 07 21:29:49 I sync both without issue typically Jan 07 21:29:50 gonna go shovel guys Jan 07 21:29:52 xcomp: the exchange part yes Jan 07 21:29:53 roads are murder toda Jan 07 21:29:54 But I have a low mail volume Jan 07 21:29:58 later Jan 07 21:30:08 multi-player screen in x-plane Jan 07 21:30:20 i have high mail volume on both accounts Jan 07 21:30:23 lingfish: What a day! feeling as left out as me? :) Jan 07 21:30:33 and well, there are about 28,000 employees at my company Jan 07 21:30:35 Mornin all Jan 07 21:30:37 rwhitby: we gonna dogfight? lol Jan 07 21:30:44 freakout-Pre: yeah I'm just about to wake up and read all the CES buzz Jan 07 21:30:48 What else did I miss? Jan 07 21:30:52 hey all! slept through CES, lots of new things when i woke up! late xmas! :) Jan 07 21:30:56 Still no f'ing 1.3.5.1 Jan 07 21:31:11 dtzWill|zzzzz: go download 3d oregon trail Jan 07 21:31:15 nope. i'm going to call O2 about it tonight... Jan 07 21:31:16 * xcomp gets impatient, pkills LunaSysMgr Jan 07 21:31:19 I'm glad I have 5 touchstones Jan 07 21:31:30 rwhitby: send me one please? :) Jan 07 21:31:33 freakout-Pre: I think it's a bit of a LARGE joke... having to wait this long Jan 07 21:31:41 rwhitby: how many of them work though? ;-) Jan 07 21:31:42 xcomp: the broken one? Jan 07 21:31:43 xcomp: I have 28 employees at my company Jan 07 21:31:57 NFS out now! Jan 07 21:32:00 rwhitby: no, not that one :) Jan 07 21:32:06 dtzWill|zzzzz: geist also mentioned gles 1.1 support, although he seemed unsure Jan 07 21:32:34 zsoc|dunce: oooo okay. nanoGL here we come! ;) Jan 07 21:32:39 freakout-Pre: what else did I miss? Jan 07 21:32:41 zsoc|dunce: although not until feb then :( Jan 07 21:33:05 zsoc|dunce: 3g oregon trail? how'd they make it 3d .... Jan 07 21:33:07 the palm website says both gles 1.1 and 2.0 are supported Jan 07 21:33:08 open source developer program?!?! Jan 07 21:33:35 did anyone else get prompted to install 1.3.5 twice? Jan 07 21:33:55 X-Plane only uses 25% CPU and 16% MEM when running!!! Jan 07 21:34:03 geist: I know we spar'ed before momentarily... but is the opengles 1.1 support in the libglesv2 lib? Jan 07 21:34:03 guys I need help one of my buddues messed up their pre and doctor won't doctor it. Jan 07 21:34:04 anything from ces beside the ea games? Jan 07 21:34:05 zsoc: this link http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1850&Itemid=20 mentions "including those that use OpenGL ES 1.1 or 2.0" Jan 07 21:34:11 dtzWill: maybe the buffalo hunting scenes are 3D? Jan 07 21:34:19 lingfish: yeah, I've registered the "Rod Whitby" open source company ;-) Jan 07 21:34:39 dtzWill|zzzzz: look at the screenshots in the catalog Jan 07 21:34:49 it says your phone is experiencing an error that cannot be resolved Jan 07 21:35:05 rwhitby: heh Jan 07 21:35:25 man am I glad I doctored my CDMA Pre last night :-) Jan 07 21:35:28 i need to doctor my phone for the first time Jan 07 21:35:40 my optware is so old and broken Jan 07 21:35:47 anyone tried rebel simcard 2 to unlock pre to any network? Jan 07 21:35:59 zsoc|dunce: hahaha Jan 07 21:36:00 So only one new carrier, in France? Jan 07 21:36:08 lingfish: and verizon Jan 07 21:36:15 (not that verizon was big news) Jan 07 21:36:26 dtzWill|zzzzz: and I like the comment in the first screenshot "maya has dysentey" lol Jan 07 21:36:26 nt4cats|idiot: gawd, who cares lol Jan 07 21:36:27 video of CES presentation is up http://www.youtube.com/palm#p/u/0/Mn6oNKVd29g Jan 07 21:36:50 * rwhitby watches Palm video Jan 07 21:36:57 Palm once again is going down the same path of being ignorant to the global market, and it shows even through their silly way of releasing software updates Jan 07 21:37:02 wow .... I love xplane Jan 07 21:37:16 ok, later guys Jan 07 21:38:36 rwhitby: is x-plane controlled with a virtual joystick, tilt, keys, all of the above? Jan 07 21:38:45 ahh so much news Jan 07 21:38:46 nt4cats|idiot: accelerometer Jan 07 21:38:48 tilt and touch Jan 07 21:39:53 and "never miss a thing" - notifications during games. Jan 07 21:40:21 so is there a game worth buying? anyone pony up for some of these yet? :) Jan 07 21:40:33 oh NFS is out already Jan 07 21:41:43 This CES seems to be the CES of incredibly high priced ebook readers Jan 07 21:42:34 you think Palm would changed the featured apps in the catalog .... Jan 07 21:42:38 Apple and/or Google will be stomping all over the ebook market soon. Jan 07 21:42:41 dtzWill: downloading NFS now, will let you know Jan 07 21:43:19 dtzWill|zzzzz: x-plane is awesome Jan 07 21:43:31 rwhitby: :D Jan 07 21:43:38 downloading nfs now Jan 07 21:43:57 need for speed is up now for $10 Jan 07 21:43:59 wish these had trials? >:O Jan 07 21:44:09 did they announce something for preware? Jan 07 21:44:11 oops.. late Jan 07 21:44:13 :) Jan 07 21:44:13 I think that will tap out the debit card I got set up. Jan 07 21:44:25 the palm conference at CES Jan 07 21:44:27 dtzWill|zzzzz: agreed, I want demos Jan 07 21:44:45 will be interesting to see if nfs works as quake/doom do not for me Jan 07 21:45:20 destinal-wirc: how to find out what libs an app is linked against? Jan 07 21:46:31 http://developer.palm.com/webChannel/index.php?packageid=com.gdialpro.visualvoicemail.rapid Jan 07 21:46:35 web channel Jan 07 21:46:36 ldd? Jan 07 21:47:03 rwhitby: that 'ldd' was for you Jan 07 21:47:21 nt4cats|idiot: something that's on the Pre Jan 07 21:47:26 ld ftw Jan 07 21:47:28 ahh, sorry Jan 07 21:47:44 which ? Jan 07 21:48:11 would which even do that? Jan 07 21:49:09 freakout: and you'd be willing to doctor in the name of science as a test subject for this new method (if I can get it working) :) Jan 07 21:49:10 ? Jan 07 21:49:31 destinal: I think that can be arranged - but I have to scoot off to work in half an hour Jan 07 21:49:35 palm pre plus has 512mb ram? Jan 07 21:49:40 yes Jan 07 21:50:03 destinal: so I may have to wait until tonight / tomorrow to give it a shot (d'oh!) Jan 07 21:50:08 whos got NFS installed already ? Jan 07 21:50:18 rwhitby: So ... new games... does that mean SDL and GL are now official? Jan 07 21:50:19 http://www.palm.com/us/products/software/mobile-applications.html#3d-games -- orgeon trail pictures don't match the thumbnails? o_O Jan 07 21:50:36 FroZenBinAry: still downloading, will let you know how it goes Jan 07 21:50:49 lingfish: they were never unofficial as such but the Plugin Development Kit won't be available publically until March Jan 07 21:51:17 so right now, you either get palm to let you in on the beta, or you use the stuff we're documenting Jan 07 21:51:20 rwhitby: well I meant more... documented, heh. Jan 07 21:51:21 wtf appstore lied Jan 07 21:51:35 er, destinal I meant that to Jan 07 21:51:41 lied about what Jan 07 21:51:49 lingfish: http://bit.ly/palm-pdk and http://bit.ly/webos-internals-pdk Jan 07 21:52:05 how do i go about getting a refund on an app Jan 07 21:52:14 asphault 5 defintely doesn't have multiplayer Jan 07 21:52:15 Tops.. so the games are via app store, which of course only yanks can get? Jan 07 21:52:20 bading Jan 07 21:52:28 hey Jan 07 21:52:43 i get git errors from git.webos-internals.org Jan 07 21:52:55 "fatal: the remote end hung up unexpectedly" Jan 07 21:53:05 so does anyone here know if the web-based OTA installs 1) can charge, and 2) must charge though palm's app system? Jan 07 21:53:19 swisstomcat: make sure you're not using the commit access url Jan 07 21:53:23 You're kidding... Flash via the App Cat as well?!?!? ARGH! Jan 07 21:54:05 lingfish: I'm thinking of getting the PIC editor to make a new Sprint Palm Profile for me ;) Jan 07 21:54:13 zsoc: sorry, my bad.. typ Jan 07 21:54:15 typo Jan 07 21:54:28 freakout: I've read a little, and small things rebrand etc apparently... Jan 07 21:54:43 I'd rather just get what is actually meant for my phone... and timely! :/ Jan 07 21:54:51 I, want, better, f'ing, batt, life, Palm. Jan 07 21:55:00 lol your not gonna get it Jan 07 21:55:04 hrm... Pre Plus loses the botton?! How strange Jan 07 21:55:30 who cares about the button, will the ap app be released for sprint? :) Jan 07 21:55:33 1.4 in Feb.. so that means GSM/Euro people will get it, what... June? Awesome. Jan 07 21:56:02 looks like $99 dev fee is still being waived atm Jan 07 21:56:12 lingfish: just face it, you're going to have to start using our doctors if you want to be most current Jan 07 21:56:17 well, another question: would folks like to get access to a user.js file that would allow people to customize Spaz in any way they want? We have that in the desktop version right now Jan 07 21:56:38 destinal: perhaps... I can also start causing a storm about it so that O2 (I'm guessing) pick up their game Jan 07 21:56:50 HOW DID YO DAWG GET IN THE CATALOG? Jan 07 21:56:56 Nobody has still explained why Nokia never have this "tied to the carrier" issue, and Palm do Jan 07 21:57:14 because nobody wants nokia anymore haha Jan 07 21:57:40 Gah... tube vid isn't even HQ yet HD :P Jan 07 21:58:04 what vid Jan 07 21:58:15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mn6oNKVd29g Jan 07 21:58:18 youtube.com/palm Jan 07 21:58:34 http://developer.palm.com/webChannel/index.php?packageid=com.gdialpro.visualvoicemail.rapid Jan 07 21:58:43 oh sweet thats what i wanted to watch Jan 07 21:59:10 I want oregon trail Jan 07 21:59:23 destinal: I've heard that odd Spring text/branding and stuff comes through using the doctor? Jan 07 22:00:44 lingfish: yes but you can omit that stuff if you want Jan 07 22:00:50 I love the "We started our negotiation for smartphones in Cupertino. We ended up in Sunnyvale." from the SFR dude. Jan 07 22:01:04 destinal: and of course it means a full nuke and restore too, right? :/ Jan 07 22:02:06 hi! can I activate the options to create/erase tabs in my pre withou webosdoctor? because I have a Movistar terminal, not a Sprint or something in the list Jan 07 22:03:18 so no unreal3? :( Jan 07 22:03:41 sadly, no Jan 07 22:04:54 hi guys, does someone knows when the announced pdk will be available to developers? Jan 07 22:05:01 rwhitby: in case nobody has answered yet, ldd is on the pre (kinda) Jan 07 22:05:08 jacques: where? Jan 07 22:05:20 checking Jan 07 22:05:24 mufumbo: march from Palm, now from webos-internals Jan 07 22:05:50 rwhitby: I think it's some weird shell macro or something Jan 07 22:06:03 * jacques gets out his USB cable. Jan 07 22:07:22 rwhitby: root@palm-webos-device:/bin# alias ldd='LD_TRACE_LOADED_OBJECTS=1 LD_WARN=yes ' Jan 07 22:07:32 jacques: got it, thx Jan 07 22:07:32 damn Jan 07 22:08:11 there should be a CR in there - alias cmd shows ldd to be aliased to 'LD_TRACE_LOADED_OBJECTS=1 LD_WARN=yes ' Jan 07 22:08:26 one effect is that it doesn't work quite like real ldd Jan 07 22:08:45 but it's good enough for most things Jan 07 22:08:48 mufumbo: after their developer summit in march Jan 07 22:08:50 jacques: http://webos.pastebin.com/m2e4e2ac2 Jan 07 22:09:05 destinal: ^^ Jan 07 22:09:41 just played the first race on NFS and won! Jan 07 22:09:43 rwhitby: nice! Jan 07 22:09:51 its pretty entertaining Jan 07 22:09:54 it's looking more like libGLES_CM.so => gles 1.1 Jan 07 22:09:58 Worth $10? Jan 07 22:10:05 easy enough to play as well Jan 07 22:10:16 * rwhitby notes that none of this information will assist anyone to pirate apps Jan 07 22:11:19 dangerskew: for me yes, since I don't own any other handheld game system Jan 07 22:11:30 rwhitby: it doesn't link to libGLESv2.so at all Jan 07 22:11:40 only libGLES_CM.so Jan 07 22:12:02 jacques: yea I asked that earlier. Makes sense now Jan 07 22:12:22 I will stop linking both and just link the one I want to use so I can port correctly, maybe I will actually get something working! :P Jan 07 22:12:41 * swisstomcat is setting up scratchbox2 Jan 07 22:12:50 somebody needs to go steal one of the demo Pre plus units from CES and figure out how to get a viewfinder Jan 07 22:13:02 don't you have to provide a feed before you do "sudo apt-get install scratchbox2"? Jan 07 22:13:23 swisstomcat: nope. standard in ubuntu 9.10 Jan 07 22:13:41 oh, i'm on 9.04 :( Jan 07 22:13:42 decent cut scenes are nice Jan 07 22:13:53 same with qemu-kvm-extras Jan 07 22:14:10 swisstomcat: wiki pages says 9.10 Jan 07 22:14:22 jacques: what were the flags for objdump to list libraries Jan 07 22:14:32 rwhitby: oh well then Jan 07 22:14:46 palm's live chat thing is pretty nifty Jan 07 22:14:56 rwhitby, how can i get from webos-internals? :) Jan 07 22:14:58 destinal: d'oh let me look Jan 07 22:15:14 mufumbo: http://bit.ly/webos-internals-pdk Jan 07 22:15:49 you think palm would ban me from the appstore for a chargeback? Jan 07 22:16:33 sampson: did you buy the wrong thing by mistake? Jan 07 22:16:38 destinal: arm-none-linux-gnueabi-objdump -p gives you libs and a bit more info Jan 07 22:16:50 no i bought asphalt 5 because it said it has multiplayer over bluetooth and internet and i was like whoa i gotta see this Jan 07 22:16:53 and neither exist Jan 07 22:16:55 You know what would be cool, if the pre had a spring-loaded slider mechanism Jan 07 22:17:15 and palm says i have to contact the developer when the charge is from palm inc Jan 07 22:17:35 destinal: arm-none-linux-gnueabi-objdump -p busybox | grep NEEDED Jan 07 22:18:00 sampson: I'd do the chargeback. Jan 07 22:18:20 well i'm asking them right now what happens if i chargeback Jan 07 22:19:01 if they won't refund because of false advertising I hope you write it up and publis Jan 07 22:19:11 h Jan 07 22:20:14 http://developer.palm.com/appredirect/?packageid=com.gdialpro.visualvoicemail.rapid Jan 07 22:20:17 does the developer even have the means to refund you? Jan 07 22:20:23 hell if i know Jan 07 22:20:36 they only get a cut right, and there's no tool for them to make palm give you money back AFAIK Jan 07 22:20:42 but maybe oil knows Jan 07 22:21:46 is verizon CDMA or GSM ? Jan 07 22:22:08 destinal: and of course it means a full nuke and restore too, right? Jan 07 22:22:16 verizon is cdma Jan 07 22:22:47 cdma like sprint Jan 07 22:23:03 when I roam at work I am on V Jan 07 22:23:38 lol Jan 07 22:23:39 http://webos-internals.pastebin.com/m38f609ad Jan 07 22:23:43 so will the next CES announce the Palm Pre Plus Plus (PP++) ? Jan 07 22:23:45 the first official app via web distribution Jan 07 22:23:59 destinal: yeah, no attention to detail. Jan 07 22:24:00 Hrm, Akamai caches are shitful slow this morning :( Jan 07 22:24:02 what an ipkg control file Jan 07 22:24:05 no rwhitby it will be the Palm Pre^2 Jan 07 22:25:20 "Palm has not reviewed this application" Jan 07 22:25:22 I think destinal is ignoring me :P Jan 07 22:26:22 i think 1.3.5.1 just kicked my pre in the nuts Jan 07 22:26:36 lingfish: sorry, what question? Jan 07 22:26:50 rwhitby: xplane links these libs libSDL-1.2.so.0 libSDL_image-1.2.so.0 libpdl.so libSDL_mixer-1.2.so.0 libGLES_CM.so libgcc_s.so.1 libc.so.6 libm.so.6 libpthread.so.0 libstdc++.so.6 Jan 07 22:27:01 09:22 < lingfish> destinal: and of course it means a full nuke and restore too, right? Jan 07 22:27:25 lingfish: eh, do you want something you can just ssh or novaterm in and apply to a running system? Jan 07 22:27:28 GLES 1.1 Jan 07 22:27:53 destinal: well, I mean an OTA update means not having to restore etc (official stuff, not patches), right? Jan 07 22:28:01 doctor means a whole lot more... Jan 07 22:28:02 egaudet_work: CM = compatibility mode? Jan 07 22:28:25 pre plus gets video recording? :\ Jan 07 22:28:27 rboatright must be lapping it up in the Palm lounge at the moment. Jan 07 22:28:36 Man the phones they demo on this CES video are a LOT faster than mine Jan 07 22:28:47 ird: everyone gets it, not just + Jan 07 22:29:16 ah Jan 07 22:29:23 rwhitby: doom, quake, supertux and that tetris game should at least show that there are real apps being ported by the homebrew folks without any kits :) Jan 07 22:29:30 Those phones MUST have GPU accel. Jan 07 22:29:50 s/ki/official ki/ Jan 07 22:29:51 destinal meant: rwhitby: doom, quake, supertux and that tetris game should at least show that there are real apps being ported by the homebrew folks without any official kits :) Jan 07 22:30:14 oh and what was it, space invaders? Jan 07 22:30:44 destinal: yep, I think it's pretty awesome that we got as many PDK games out as Palm did ;-) Jan 07 22:31:16 rwhitby: I suspect their plugin development also strongly implies that NPAPI plugins are supported Jan 07 22:31:27 NPAPI? Jan 07 22:31:31 i would like to know how to make GLES 1.1 apps work :( Jan 07 22:31:42 netscape plugin api Jan 07 22:31:44 ali1: uh, link to libGLES_CM.so Jan 07 22:31:45 destinal: good pickup on the acronym, Compatibility Mode makes perfect sense Jan 07 22:31:52 firefox/webkit/etc use it Jan 07 22:32:21 so my mistake was linking to both v2 and v1.1, probably combining the API calls. At least I'm hoping Jan 07 22:32:29 destinal: i meant how to make it display anything else other than a garbled screen of colors Jan 07 22:32:51 ali1: what app Jan 07 22:32:54 ali1: uh, well, do you have an existing app to port? Jan 07 22:32:56 testgl Jan 07 22:33:00 hmm Jan 07 22:33:34 testgl is GL Jan 07 22:33:41 did you port it to GL1.1 Jan 07 22:33:45 err GLES Jan 07 22:33:47 yeah Jan 07 22:33:52 http://webos.pastebin.com/m68768152 thats my code so far Jan 07 22:34:07 it builds and runs but GLES 1.1 doesn't seem to work with it? i dunno Jan 07 22:34:18 I tried to port it too but get failure (check getGlError()) after my first glDrawArrays() Jan 07 22:34:32 ali1: if you figure that out please let me know :/. Jan 07 22:34:50 i only got the error when it tried to use SDL_GL_GetAttributes Jan 07 22:34:54 So are the + models only on verizon? Jan 07 22:35:14 as I understand it, yes Jan 07 22:35:16 ali1: looks pretty much exactly what I tried Jan 07 22:35:27 SDL_GL_GetAttributes is bugged Jan 07 22:35:31 libSDL bug Jan 07 22:36:01 ali1: i either get scrambled, or black screen :( Jan 07 22:36:11 ali1: tried to use SDL_OPENGL bit for get attribtues Jan 07 22:36:31 i think it isn't support for 1.1 Jan 07 22:36:43 I need a + as a dev phone :-( Jan 07 22:36:57 looking at the libSDL code it -looks- like a bug to me, but I could be completely wrong Jan 07 22:37:22 strace x-plane as it starts up :-) Jan 07 22:37:27 see what it calls Jan 07 22:37:27 the libSDL code checks for a function pointer to GL_GetAttributes Jan 07 22:37:29 set video mode bit to | SDL_OPENGL, I think that workaround? Jan 07 22:37:34 destinal: did we verify GLES common lib supports GLES 1.1? Jan 07 22:37:41 ali1: in the wrong structure or by wrong name Jan 07 22:37:48 or run x-plane under gdb maybe with breakpoints Jan 07 22:37:48 egaudet: the set video mode flag is SDL_OPENGLES Jan 07 22:37:53 zsoc: geist said so Jan 07 22:38:02 and the games link to GLES_CM NOT GLESv2 Jan 07 22:38:03 zsoc: the PDK page says o Jan 07 22:38:03 so Jan 07 22:38:09 great, after 1.3.5.1 update my phone locks up after running for about 30 sec Jan 07 22:38:10 destinal: kk Jan 07 22:38:13 and GLES_CM has 1.1 API Jan 07 22:38:17 egaudet: good Jan 07 22:38:29 so now that I know that, I'll stop linking both libs in :P Jan 07 22:38:36 programmable shaders are still 100x more efficient. GLES 1.1 eats your CPU Jan 07 22:38:45 maybe i dunno what the hell i'm doing in GLES Jan 07 22:38:52 ali1: hold on I'll pull up the file Jan 07 22:39:57 zsoc: lol so i'm not the only one who sees 1.1 api in GLES_CM :) Jan 07 22:40:02 Doesn't the video flag have to be SDL_OPENGLES? Jan 07 22:40:07 zsoc: not that that helps, since i still get black screen/scrambled Jan 07 22:40:09 dtzWill: looks like you're vindicated :) Jan 07 22:40:32 * zsoc hugs dtzWill Jan 07 22:40:57 so do we know enough to say that these apps are OpenGL ES 1.1 ? Jan 07 22:41:29 dump their symbol tables... are they only using 1.1 API calls? Jan 07 22:41:57 ali1: yea in SDL_video.c SDL_GL_GetAttribute, it looks for this->GLES_GetAttribute, but then calls GL_GetAttribute Jan 07 22:42:04 that is the bug I think that causes it to fail Jan 07 22:42:17 if I was in data service area I would already have x-plane and probably the sims Jan 07 22:42:52 rwhitby: no way, those apps _have_ to be using GLES 2 or the cpu would be pegged.. especially with the lighting in nfs Jan 07 22:43:04 ali1: question, how did you end up with 14 vertices for DrawArrays in your port? Jan 07 22:43:12 interesting Jan 07 22:43:13 Doesn't the GL code have 24? Jan 07 22:43:25 these apps pause themselves when card'ed Jan 07 22:43:27 zsoc: how do you figure Jan 07 22:43:42 they can't be using GLES 2 because you can check the symbols in GLES_CM and there are no 2.0 API Jan 07 22:43:43 destinal: don't our native apps already do that? Jan 07 22:43:47 dtzWill: no Jan 07 22:43:56 GLES_CM - Compatibility Mode Jan 07 22:43:58 they start rendering absurdly slowly with igh resources Jan 07 22:44:05 s/igh/high/ Jan 07 22:44:05 destinal meant: they start rendering absurdly slowly with high resources Jan 07 22:44:09 check channel log for when it was talked about earlier Jan 07 22:44:10 destinal: ah Jan 07 22:44:10 jacques: how to check the symbols? Jan 07 22:44:29 egaudet_work: You're telling me NFS isn't linking to libGLESv2? Because I actually don't believe that. Jan 07 22:44:37 this app knows its paused, there's a pause icon in the corner of the card Jan 07 22:44:41 nm Jan 07 22:44:49 zsoc: xplane does NOT Jan 07 22:44:54 does NOT link to v23 Jan 07 22:44:55 zsoc: well I dont have NFS but xplane doesn't ^^ Jan 07 22:44:56 s/23/2/ Jan 07 22:44:57 destinal meant: does NOT link to v2 Jan 07 22:45:10 destinal: xplane doesn't have to Jan 07 22:45:11 rwhitby: you have NFS? Jan 07 22:45:17 textures are 'eh' imo :P Jan 07 22:45:17 does it link to GLESv2 or GLES_CM Jan 07 22:45:24 what does the iphone NFS use ? 2.0? Jan 07 22:45:30 whatever that uses it probably direct port Jan 07 22:45:37 zsoc: xplane doesn't have to because it's using opengles 1.1 Jan 07 22:45:39 egaudet_work: only iphone 3gs uses 2.0, so if it's 3gs only, probably Jan 07 22:45:47 oregon trail? Jan 07 22:45:47 seriously. Jan 07 22:45:49 destinal: right Jan 07 22:45:50 rwhitby: is the x-plane binary stripped ? Jan 07 22:45:54 ird: OREGON TRAIL IS AMAZING Jan 07 22:46:20 xplane_default: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.14, not stripped Jan 07 22:46:26 is pastebin'ing the output of binutils on a binary a licensing issue? Jan 07 22:46:26 nfs libs: http://webos.pastebin.com/m6801c771 Jan 07 22:46:34 zsoc: no Jan 07 22:46:45 zsoc: it's data not a copy of an expressive work Jan 07 22:46:51 do not paste internal symbols Jan 07 22:46:54 there you have it zsoc, no 2.0 Jan 07 22:46:56 zsoc: I want me some tetris Jan 07 22:46:57 :D Jan 07 22:46:57 only interfaces to palm libs Jan 07 22:47:08 I disagree with that pastebin :P Jan 07 22:47:09 rwhitby: even symbol names are not expressive Jan 07 22:47:20 I am being Puff stubborn, something in the common libs links to v2 Jan 07 22:47:44 you can't copyright a database, you can't claim copyright of the technical analysis of something Jan 07 22:47:58 destinal: agreed, but there is no need to get on the bad side of developers when all we need are interface symbols to palm libs Jan 07 22:48:05 ah, fair enough Jan 07 22:48:08 zsoc: well it IS "Compatibility Mode" we are assuming Jan 07 22:48:34 there's a lot of GLES_CM stuff online Jan 07 22:48:35 but no GLESv2 lib means no GLES 2.0 Jan 07 22:49:40 alright well I'm heading home Jan 07 22:49:40 yeah, everything seems to indicate GLES_CM = 1.1 Jan 07 22:50:14 http://webos.pastebin.com/m112b8702 both need libIMGegl.so but not eachother Jan 07 22:51:05 again, libSDL-1.2.so.0 libSDL_image-1.2.so.0 libpdl.so libSDL_mixer-1.2.so.0 libGLES_CM.so libgcc_s.so.1 libc.so.6 libm.so.6 libpthread.so.0 libstdc++.so.6 Jan 07 22:51:21 zsoc: are you still going to develop precorder now, or move on? Jan 07 22:51:28 ird: what's the point now? Jan 07 22:51:32 don't see egl in that Jan 07 22:51:33 That's what I figured. Jan 07 22:51:39 ird: there might be other cool things we can do with gst tho Jan 07 22:51:46 ird: you should follow @webosinternals on twitter ... Jan 07 22:51:48 ird: like playback/recording of other filetpyes Jan 07 22:51:59 * jacques wants augmented reality on the Pre Jan 07 22:52:11 zsoc: i tried to do that awhile ago but fell short on the muxer :( Jan 07 22:52:33 ali1: it's all there now, but the recorder is out in a month lol Jan 07 22:52:57 ranbdom articles. . "MZX links with GLES_CM (v1) and GLESv2 ok" Jan 07 22:53:25 " This is useful for compiling against GLES, since you can't link both v1 and v2 libraries at once." Jan 07 22:53:49 zsoc: I wish someone would hack vorbis/flac/xvid support already :D Jan 07 22:53:52 Mainly vorbis though. Jan 07 22:54:18 ird: well it's always worked command line Jan 07 22:54:23 xvid you can probably do with a recompile on ffmpeg Jan 07 22:54:35 ird: and you can't make fileindexer or mediaserver do it (Closed source) Jan 07 22:54:47 ird: but now with sdl we can make our own native C media player / recorder Jan 07 22:54:54 with it's own fileindexer, and player through sdl-video Jan 07 22:54:58 and gst backend Jan 07 22:55:22 hmm Jan 07 22:55:28 nfs is fun lol Jan 07 22:55:47 kronos references ".. for OpenGL ES 1.x (CM)" Jan 07 22:55:51 so yeah lots of confirmation Jan 07 22:56:31 * jacques wants FLAC Jan 07 22:56:46 zsoc: I just love walking around typing in the terminal all day to play music :) Jan 07 22:56:59 the gesture bar looks so naked without a button Jan 07 22:57:00 But yes, a native media player would be awesome. Jan 07 22:57:52 crazy question, but since you can force VLC to output SDL, is that possibly a quick port path? Jan 07 22:57:54 destinal: ok then, i digress :) explains 80% cpu usage in nfs :P Jan 07 22:58:21 krustyjonez: er, yes and no. it would still be command line, just sdl card for playback Jan 07 22:58:35 krustyjonez: plus vlc still needs to 'use something', so either gst or ffmpeg i would guess Jan 07 22:58:56 but being able to create surfaces on the fly for anything is extremely useful Jan 07 22:58:58 yes, ffmpeg is my guess Jan 07 22:59:06 krustyjonez: i believe it does either Jan 07 22:59:18 but figuring that's easier to port (actually might be done already?) than a GUI Jan 07 22:59:48 ok, so we need to stage OpenGL ES 1.1 today ... Jan 07 22:59:51 palm uses ffmpeg for their media stuff Jan 07 23:00:23 it'd be nice if palm added divx/xvid support Jan 07 23:00:23 actually you can get the ffmpeg configuration options used easily by just running ffmpeg on the pre Jan 07 23:00:41 OpenGL 1 to OpenGL 1.1 is almost a straight port Jan 07 23:01:00 s/OpenGL 1.1/OpenGL ES 1.1/ Jan 07 23:01:00 zsoc meant: OpenGL 1 to OpenGL ES 1.1 is almost a straight port Jan 07 23:01:17 someone get an opengl es 1.1 app running first Jan 07 23:01:18 rwhitby: I've gotten purely native (using a framebuffer) gles1.1 apps to run, but I'm still figuring out sdl wrappings Jan 07 23:01:29 someone == dtzWill ? Jan 07 23:01:40 holy happenings batman Jan 07 23:01:41 mdklein: !!! that's the easy part! it seems you did the difficult work already :) look at bpadalino's triangle of doom code? Jan 07 23:01:47 my university's registration site is painful and slow Jan 07 23:01:57 jacques: haha :). i would except i can't? :) it either is scrambled or black screen :/ Jan 07 23:02:20 arrhg time to doctor the pre again heh Jan 07 23:02:24 mdklein: yeah the part you solved is the stuff we're having trouble on Jan 07 23:02:37 alil wow, you're right Jan 07 23:02:40 nfs is taking forever to download :( Jan 07 23:02:57 ird, its 120mb Jan 07 23:03:10 Smaller than I was expecting. Jan 07 23:03:15 holy shit Jan 07 23:03:25 evening folks. what a day Jan 07 23:03:29 agreed Jan 07 23:03:29 krustyjonez: yeah its an easy recompile using palms ffmpeg patch. i did it for FLV but mediaserver wasn't having it with the muxer Jan 07 23:04:23 Ok, my project for tonight is creating an OpenGL ES 2.0 example that interacts directly with EGL. Jan 07 23:04:29 * rwhitby bbl Jan 07 23:04:43 who was it that had the tower defense game, I forget. oil? Jan 07 23:04:55 either way, perfect time to update that guy Jan 07 23:04:58 crap we need tower defense Jan 07 23:05:05 100% Jan 07 23:05:07 yes we do Jan 07 23:05:11 that's the only game I keep my iPhone around for ;) Jan 07 23:05:33 I'd do it, but opengl stuff is beyond my skillset Jan 07 23:05:39 I'm going to go port Desktop Tower Defense.. i _sort of _ know the creator Jan 07 23:05:50 for it Jan 07 23:05:52 heh Jan 07 23:05:53 AnOutsider: I know very little open gl, I'm going to go read a 472 page book Jan 07 23:06:00 mm tower defense Jan 07 23:06:09 wish i had the time to follow in your footsteps haha Jan 07 23:06:11 * zsoc says he's going to do a lot of things Jan 07 23:06:20 AnOutsider: don't worry, i'm pretty sure i'm going to fail Jan 07 23:06:30 I suppose with flash on the way though, a lot of flash games can be ported? Jan 07 23:06:48 like maybe we can embed swfs in our apps. if that's the case, that'll be easy as heck Jan 07 23:06:58 i don't see why not Jan 07 23:07:20 gemcraft. we need gemcraft Jan 07 23:07:26 unless they restrict it from apps but i doubt it Jan 07 23:07:33 guess time will tell Jan 07 23:07:38 AnOutsider: swf->sdl created surface is a small leap Jan 07 23:07:42 but fi the browser can do it, surely an app can Jan 07 23:07:51 actually, _anything_ to an sdl created surface is a small leap, that's why it's so amazing. Jan 07 23:07:55 * freakout-Pre still wants someone to port mplayer :) Jan 07 23:07:58 just played desktop defense zsoc, looks good Jan 07 23:08:39 http://criticalthoughtgames.com/ <-- maybe those guys will port as well Jan 07 23:11:13 yeah geodefence is awesome Jan 07 23:11:41 This book gets silly around page 39. Jan 07 23:11:44 wonder if these guys will port? http://www.crytek.com/ Jan 07 23:11:52 im only one the second hard level myself Jan 07 23:11:54 :P Jan 07 23:11:55 yeah, it can run crysis Jan 07 23:11:56 hehe Jan 07 23:12:05 zsoc: where did you get the book? amazon? Jan 07 23:13:08 jacques: yes. yes. amazon. Jan 07 23:13:24 my pre is locking up, how do I doctor it? Isn't their a key combo? Jan 07 23:13:31 I'm not sure if I'm ever going to use this, but it's really really cool. Jan 07 23:13:44 pretty nice announcements today Jan 07 23:14:29 zsoc: link to the one you're reading? Jan 07 23:14:38 etx: you can power if off, hold down the volume UP key and plug in the USB Jan 07 23:14:41 @etx: orange key, sym key, R is restart Jan 07 23:14:50 or that ;) Jan 07 23:14:52 that'll put it in recovery mode, then you run doctor on your PC Jan 07 23:14:54 destinal: thanks! Jan 07 23:15:04 it will wipe out some data Jan 07 23:15:05 thats what i was lookin for Jan 07 23:15:17 yeah, I've tried everything its not too happy Jan 07 23:15:35 if it does make it into the gui it freezes after about 30 sec Jan 07 23:16:11 man ... nfs looks awesome in the demos. I think I'm gonna have to pony up for it Jan 07 23:16:35 they took too long to put it int he store, I went for asphalt 5 Jan 07 23:16:45 the pic of the lambo and R8 did it for me Jan 07 23:16:45 xcomp: I did and as it was downloading my pre died hah Jan 07 23:17:01 @etx: shouldnt have a problem redownloading Jan 07 23:17:05 does it have a 350z or a 370z? Jan 07 23:17:20 AnOutsider: yeah once i doctor it and get preware back on there heh Jan 07 23:17:23 dunno yet, I bought based on the screenshots Jan 07 23:17:33 nah asphalt is from the app catalog Jan 07 23:17:43 I don't suppose anyone got The Sims? Jan 07 23:17:48 214.15MB download... no wonder they added background downloading Jan 07 23:18:00 my girlfriend is downloading the sims on hers jac Jan 07 23:18:06 cool that the app launcher shows an indicator too Jan 07 23:18:06 xplane was a 210mb download Jan 07 23:18:13 AnOutsider: I'm curious how it is Jan 07 23:18:23 this chan is gonna be crazy for the next 48 hours huh Jan 07 23:18:26 girls love the sims Jan 07 23:18:34 bpadalino: ping Jan 07 23:18:34 I'm definitely getting x-plane Jan 07 23:18:34 214 mb Jan 07 23:18:35 not being a fan of the sims myself, I can't say, but I can ask her thoughts Jan 07 23:18:35 jeez Jan 07 23:18:37 because they love to tell people what to do heh Jan 07 23:18:45 heh Jan 07 23:18:54 they shouldnt hav bothered with a 16 gb Jan 07 23:18:58 should have went straight to 32 Jan 07 23:19:06 would have been way better Jan 07 23:19:06 So... wait. are we getting into the goldmine app rush with palm? Getting ready for the PDK? Jan 07 23:19:07 I glanced over xplane, is it just a simulator, or is there combat Jan 07 23:19:17 x-plane should be 170 or so Jan 07 23:19:21 AnOutsider: straight sim, like FAA approved stuff Jan 07 23:19:25 200mb is the limit Jan 07 23:19:26 AnOutsider: only a simulator Jan 07 23:19:28 ah ok Jan 07 23:19:29 Adora: hey! adora's in -internals? :) Jan 07 23:19:39 would love to play a starfox-style game Jan 07 23:19:44 heh Jan 07 23:19:44 starfox 64 of course Jan 07 23:20:01 what would be awesome is if there is starfox 64 for pre where u can hook up on network and battle 3 ppl Jan 07 23:20:08 AnOutsider: yeah earlier I was saying I'd like a dogfighting game which uses the accelerometer - multiplayer of course :-0 Jan 07 23:20:17 of course Jan 07 23:20:18 It will happen, i assure you. Jan 07 23:20:28 I mean, uhh.... =] Jan 07 23:20:46 I'm really happy for palm. In less than a year they've gotten WebOS up to a pretty strong state Jan 07 23:20:51 I'm everywhere! Jan 07 23:21:06 Adora: especially on the paratrooper score boards :P Jan 07 23:21:12 AnOutsider: I would say "leading edge" even :) Jan 07 23:21:12 hahahah Jan 07 23:21:32 adora: argh! Big day for you guys Jan 07 23:21:37 * zsoc goes back to reading Jan 07 23:21:52 @zsoc: a huge PR push to get the Os and devices in the front of consumers would go a long way now Jan 07 23:21:53 freakout-Pre: srsly Jan 07 23:22:06 we've been working like crazy for this, and now I'm almost too drained to enjoy it Jan 07 23:22:09 as long as they stop with those weird freaky lady ads Jan 07 23:22:11 =) Jan 07 23:22:12 now that they can back it up with all the needed functionality they announced today Jan 07 23:22:21 (plus, it just means that much more work in the future, but this is a Good Problem) Jan 07 23:22:24 heh I think I'm the only one that liked her Jan 07 23:22:31 I did too Jan 07 23:22:36 haha Jan 07 23:22:37 AnOutsider: just a commercial like: Our phones do the following things: ... Come buy one. Jan 07 23:22:40 Adora, you work for Palm? Jan 07 23:22:47 AnOutsider: yep! Jan 07 23:23:00 Adora: yay, and the PDK isn't even really needed to do good openGL games Jan 07 23:23:04 which is nice Jan 07 23:23:04 @zsoc yeah, something badass, Zerizon did a good job branding Droid Jan 07 23:23:06 AnOutsider: Adora is Rubinstein :P Jan 07 23:23:14 destinal: uh, well it's probably needed to get them in the app catalog Jan 07 23:23:15 Oh, super geek Jan 07 23:23:27 zsoc: why? Jan 07 23:23:35 Adora: You're Jon? Oh, well good guess with the 3 days thing. Jan 07 23:23:39 they may check certain functionality but a compiler is a compiler Jan 07 23:24:02 zsoc: lol Jan 07 23:24:05 destinal: I'm sure there's going to be "official" methods of sending in Native apps for checkout Jan 07 23:24:28 * zsoc makes a triangle Jan 07 23:25:17 zsoc: ? Jan 07 23:25:28 zsoc: sending in is sending in, I don't see the complication Jan 07 23:25:37 destinal: you're probably right, as usual :) Jan 07 23:25:50 now their _testing_ procedures may not be ready Jan 07 23:25:56 and certification etc Jan 07 23:26:26 So with this new device..any idea if there will be another upgrade in 6 more months..come 1 year mark? Jan 07 23:26:27 GLES 2.0 was made _specifically_ not to be backwards compatible because of how inefficient 1.x is on embedded devices... and yet we have both. It seems contradictory. Jan 07 23:26:45 zsoc: obviously to make porting easier Jan 07 23:26:45 Smubeht: I'm guessing Palm Pre 2 shown at CES 2011 :) Jan 07 23:27:04 the Palm Post Jan 07 23:27:06 destinal: that's true i suppose. Jan 07 23:27:12 so you can be inefficient and have it work or you can do better, your choice Jan 07 23:27:29 destinal: you're a good conceptual thinker :P Jan 07 23:27:30 I wouldn't rule out a new handset for the 2010 holiday season. Jan 07 23:27:53 Have any webos/palm based 'leaks' in the last year turned out to be wrong/false? I can't think of any. Jan 07 23:27:57 "WebOS Internals: More. Power. Scotty!" Jan 07 23:28:25 i expect a new handset before june Jan 07 23:28:34 f the holidays Jan 07 23:28:58 i'd think the pre and pixi will be out on more carriers before that happens Jan 07 23:29:11 you mean like verizon and att? Jan 07 23:29:13 ...oh wait Jan 07 23:29:29 sucks for us sprint users then..id have hoped to get an upgraded device(would probably give my handset to my sister or something) and get a new one..but if there wont be a significant upgrade i wont bother..i dont think id switch from the current pre to the pre plus. i think id need a tad bigger jump to shell out Jan 07 23:29:31 They'll be on everything but T-Mobile by 2nd quarter of this year. Jan 07 23:29:34 Woah, the plug-in dev kit looks, very interesting. Jan 07 23:29:39 if verizon would lower their rate plans to be competitive with sprint's, i'd jump ship in an instant Jan 07 23:29:39 And T-Mobile is irrelevant. Jan 07 23:29:59 actually att is more scared of T-Mobile than anything Jan 07 23:30:04 they got money out the wazoo Jan 07 23:30:10 Smubeht: verizon is just so much more expensive. Sprint's $70 single line plan is _basically_ unlimited everything unless you spend all day calling 800 numbers or landlines Jan 07 23:30:15 sprint has better customer service and a better data network, and 16gb is not enough reason to bitch Jan 07 23:30:26 * Mousey stays put Jan 07 23:30:37 i want a pre plus but the extra $1000 it will cost me to sign up with verizon (plus that hefty $350 ETF) is NOT worth it Jan 07 23:30:59 oh, and you have to be a verizon customer too Jan 07 23:31:00 * zsoc wonders how aussies feel about the yanks strange carrier talks Jan 07 23:31:16 i mean, their ETF is $350 Jan 07 23:31:20 i dont mean switch to verizon Jan 07 23:31:21 three hundred and fifty freaking dollars Jan 07 23:31:23 hell no Jan 07 23:31:25 i wouldnt switch from sprint to verizon Jan 07 23:31:33 Smubeht: same here Jan 07 23:31:42 i mean buy a new handset..but i would only buy a new one if the upgrade was significant enough.. Jan 07 23:31:48 Looks 1.4.0 in the next month, if we are getting video recording. Jan 07 23:31:48 the differences between pre and pre-plus dont validate the difference in price for me Jan 07 23:31:48 zsoc: smug and superior. your carriers are raping you :P Jan 07 23:31:51 if pre plus was on sprint i dont think id bother upgrading. Jan 07 23:31:53 Technically they use the same network. You want to roam on verizon? (flips forced roaming patch) Jan 07 23:31:54 (worse than ours) Jan 07 23:32:05 Sprint at least uses lube on their customers.. Verizon? jackhammers Jan 07 23:32:19 if pre plus were on sprint I'd upgrade as soon as I became eligible Jan 07 23:32:22 but if it was a significant upgrade in cpu/ram and 32 gb(should be enough) id probably shell out and give my pre away Jan 07 23:32:53 and hardware was stable, not oreo or other bad slider issues Jan 07 23:33:12 freakout: $70USD for 450 daytime minutes, unlimited calling to any cell phone (any carrier domestically), unlim nights and weekends (7a-7p, all day sat and sun), unlim domestic text, picture, and video mail, unlim data inluding gps and basic sprint tv, is bad? similar ATT/verizon plans including that are twice that price. Jan 07 23:33:43 i have to probably wait another 1.5 yrs to upgrade..but id pay the extra if something came out in 6 mos with good specs..i love webos..but i think its needs more hardware power to be successful.. Jan 07 23:33:43 * zsoc stops being a sales person Jan 07 23:33:47 rwhitby: I'm really good at the "flaming death" move in xplane Jan 07 23:33:50 zsoc, not bad at all compared to data plans overseas Jan 07 23:33:53 all i really care about is data and nights/weekends Jan 07 23:34:07 so what's really the point in xplane? Jan 07 23:34:08 heh zsoc..yeah im on a family plan.. Jan 07 23:34:13 can you go anywhere? do anything? Jan 07 23:34:19 other than, well, crash =P Jan 07 23:34:23 Adora: you FLY a PLANE Jan 07 23:34:24 Don't forget SprintNav, NFL network and Nascar...all of which any other carrier would charge $9.99/month for. Each. Jan 07 23:34:33 "What's the point? What's the point?" !!!!! Jan 07 23:34:34 nfl network is awesome i must say Jan 07 23:34:38 its a flight sim akin to xplane/ms flight simulator on the PC Jan 07 23:34:46 except way less technical obviously Jan 07 23:34:47 saw some thursday night games on it..was pretty nice Jan 07 23:35:03 so could we put a preware 'game' installer to the palm web app link? Jan 07 23:35:07 "Oh this is only on the NFL network".. "wait a second, no, it's also on my phone, for free" :P Jan 07 23:35:15 egaudet: the short answer is yes Jan 07 23:35:17 Smubeht: Especially if you're like me and can't get NFL Network in your area. Jan 07 23:35:26 zsoc: don't get me wrong, it's awesome Jan 07 23:35:34 egaudet: the long answer is i'm sure palm is going to scrutanize what your native app actually _does_ Jan 07 23:35:52 zsoc: ah, but with all those incompatible networks and lock-in contracts, you can't jump ship when a better plan turns up. that's what I love about our networks. I am, however, horribly jealous of unlimited data Jan 07 23:35:56 but after a couple of minutes I was like "ok, so now what?" Jan 07 23:35:59 they don't review web link aps Jan 07 23:36:18 Adora: wait till you unlock the Trench Run Jan 07 23:36:20 freakout: yeah, contracts/handset subsidation is pretty much mean / marketing to less intelligent people. I admit that. Jan 07 23:36:23 t-mobile have contract-less plans with unlimited data Jan 07 23:36:41 egaudet: ah, web link. So we are just like "want preware? click this button" Jan 07 23:36:43 freakout-Pre: do you get subsidized phone prices? Jan 07 23:36:46 tmobile is similar to sprint in that its dirt cheap..just their service is way worse Jan 07 23:36:52 ali1: They also have the worst network I have _ever_ had the bad luck to actually try to use. Jan 07 23:36:56 yea zsoc! Jan 07 23:36:57 Hmm whats everyone using for C/CPP ide on windows machines these days Jan 07 23:37:06 freakout-Pre: so there's other content to unlock? what do you have to do to get to it? Jan 07 23:37:09 Borland stopped selling Borland C++ Jan 07 23:37:12 freakout-Pre: nobody in the world offers subsidized phone prices without also locking people into contracts Jan 07 23:37:17 ali1: Worse then MetroPCS, AT&T, Sprint, by quite a lot. Jan 07 23:37:34 CTLAdvance: A windows machine? Like a machine that makes windows? Jan 07 23:37:38 forgive me if this is obvious, but I only played it during a 2am fire drill and was a bit out of it =] Jan 07 23:37:43 and sprint's ETF is still very reasonable at $175 -- much less than the discount you're getting off MSRP Jan 07 23:38:04 xcomp: er, i think it's $200 now Jan 07 23:38:10 yeah, it's $200 now Jan 07 23:38:24 still ... you get the phone for $100 and MSRP is what, $550? Jan 07 23:38:25 i thought the $200 ETF didnt kick in till feb Jan 07 23:38:32 so wat is that whole plugin dev kit thing Jan 07 23:38:34 what will it enable Jan 07 23:38:40 580 Jan 07 23:38:42 does anyone have scratchbox2 that would like to help me prove a bug real quick? Jan 07 23:38:54 i got mine off contract with a $75 discount Jan 07 23:39:02 Mercury: it works here fine Jan 07 23:39:16 actually i'd get a signal in my university where my pre couldn't Jan 07 23:39:23 Smubeht: y'know... everything Jan 07 23:39:25 Adora: bad Star Wars joke, please ignore me Jan 07 23:39:27 has flash beta been released? Jan 07 23:39:40 freakout-Pre: pshhhhhh Jan 07 23:39:43 no, it comes out feburary along with the 1.4 update Jan 07 23:39:44 zsoc: help a brother out? Jan 07 23:39:52 if you have sb2 that is Jan 07 23:39:55 destinal: i have a non-standard environment Jan 07 23:40:10 Hmm...apparently the Pre Plus has a more "clicky" keyboard with slightly more raised keys. Jan 07 23:40:13 ZSOC... yes I have a machine that runs a glass factory... er nm Jan 07 23:40:18 Now that I'm jealous of. Jan 07 23:40:18 is that good or bad idontwan2know Jan 07 23:40:24 xcomp: no subsidies, you're right there. but the problem in the US is that unlocked phones can't be freely ported to other networks... try taking your CDMA sprint phone to ATT for example Jan 07 23:40:26 idontwan2know: yeah I want a plus 2 Jan 07 23:40:26 raised keys is good Jan 07 23:40:28 too Jan 07 23:40:33 but clicky? Jan 07 23:40:33 I just need a good IDE to use in windows... I think eclipse does C/CPP Jan 07 23:40:34 more like the pixi keyboard Jan 07 23:40:38 i still have the maemo scratchbox installed lol, i need to tear it down since i stopped developing for maemo devices Jan 07 23:40:43 Good, imo...the Pre's keyboard is a tad mushy for my taste. Jan 07 23:40:55 freakout-Pre: yeah, but that's more a technical function of different technologies being deployed between networks Jan 07 23:41:09 did we figure out anything about GLES 1.1? Jan 07 23:41:32 freakout, i've ported pres to several different cdma networks here in the states Jan 07 23:41:33 freakout-Pre: you can pretty much use any GSM phone with either AT&T and T-Mobile Jan 07 23:41:51 the 3G stuff may not work but regular 2G will Jan 07 23:42:16 xcomp, 3G doesnt work so well on native ATT phones anyway =x Jan 07 23:42:22 yep Jan 07 23:42:27 zsoc: how's your opengl es 1 triangle coming? Jan 07 23:42:34 acydlord: my stepdad bought a pre modded for cricket. what do I need to worry about for him to doctor? Jan 07 23:42:44 i have family and friends abroad ... they travel here all the time and bring their phones, exchange sim cards and are good to go Jan 07 23:42:48 dtzWill: no no, es 2 Jan 07 23:42:55 destinal, it needs to be modded after doctoring or any update Jan 07 23:43:02 dtzWill: just because i now know es 1 works, doesn't mean i'm going to learn old stuff ;) Jan 07 23:43:05 acydlord: is it documented anywhere? Jan 07 23:43:11 destinal lemme check Jan 07 23:43:17 i know it is for verizon Jan 07 23:43:21 ES 1.1 works? Jan 07 23:43:25 is there a snes emulator yet? Jan 07 23:43:26 zsoc: bah. was hoping for a working es1 example :( Jan 07 23:43:43 you'd think that they'd point out when you buy these hacked phones how they're hacked and what you need to do to reproduce it Jan 07 23:43:44 ali1: apparently libGLES_CM.so is the es 1.1 lib Jan 07 23:43:51 ali1: people seem to think so (and the evidence of the app linking is compelling) although i don't think anyone has a complete example yet Jan 07 23:44:02 no customer service among modders maybe Jan 07 23:44:11 although someone said they had most of a 1 example, just needed some sdl work Jan 07 23:44:35 dtzWill: don't suppose you have sb2 either? Jan 07 23:44:38 that was mdklein Jan 07 23:45:07 destinal, they lose out on money if they tell you how to reproduce it Jan 07 23:45:10 i'm not sure if he talked about it more Jan 07 23:45:18 all the places i know out here that do it charge $25 to do updates Jan 07 23:45:23 ugh Jan 07 23:45:25 destinal: i do have sb2. why? Jan 07 23:45:56 guys would it be possible to create a patch to lock certain cards from being tossed away? I hate when I go into a card tossing away frenzy and accidentally toss my music card smh. Jan 07 23:46:00 dtzWill: do you have the environment from git, can you run sb2 -M /srv/preware/cross-compile/staging/mapping-armv7 ? Jan 07 23:46:00 destinal: although i do my dev in a mix of my own env and it, but i do have it and can use it to compile things like doomtriangle Jan 07 23:46:23 i don't have it in /srv/preware, and i haven't updated in a while, but yes i can Jan 07 23:46:29 destinal: ^^^^ sorry :) Jan 07 23:47:08 dtzWill: can you run it and try mkdir -p /usr/local/foo ? Jan 07 23:47:34 on mine it crashes Jan 07 23:47:42 trying to get confirmation from anyone else Jan 07 23:48:18 you have to have the mapping loaded that maps /usr/local Jan 07 23:48:48 destinal: will try, one sec Jan 07 23:49:47 destinal: works. and mapping is loaded, b/c /usr/local/lib has the pre libs in it, definitely not my system libs :) (libLunaSysMgr hehe) Jan 07 23:50:09 dtzWill: did you try mkdir -p /usr/local/foo though? Jan 07 23:50:20 to make a new dir Jan 07 23:50:22 destinal: yes, and it worked. just removed it now Jan 07 23:50:29 destinal: i know what mkdir does hahaha Jan 07 23:50:43 I mean one that you purposely didn't have Jan 07 23:50:46 as a test Jan 07 23:50:50 hmm Jan 07 23:51:11 destinal: i built sb2 from git, maybe it's some bug that was fixed? idk what version the wiki/apt/you has Jan 07 23:51:15 somewhere my system broke Jan 07 23:51:35 destinal: :/ sorry Jan 07 23:53:33 looking for an epub reader project to contribute to Jan 07 23:53:41 \o/ spinning cube. no lighting though :( Jan 07 23:57:38 destinal, they have some info on howard forums for porting the pre to metropcs, same process for cricket Jan 07 23:58:49 dtzWill: YOU MAKE ZE KYUBE?! Jan 07 23:59:05 i only make ze triangle, you has more verticies :( Jan 07 23:59:13 I forget who askes, but Asphalt 5 finally downloaded, there's a 370z Jan 07 23:59:18 dtzWill: so what was the key ? Jan 07 23:59:21 zsoc: hehe :) Jan 07 23:59:24 bpadalino: using gles2 :/ lol Jan 07 23:59:30 ah ha Jan 07 23:59:35 dtzWill: see it's easier ;) Jan 07 23:59:40 AND programmable Jan 08 00:00:08 Welcome to #opengles, btw Jan 08 00:00:17 amusing Jan 08 00:00:28 i love how when you guys want something, irc channels are #1 Jan 08 00:00:36 bpadalino: huh? Jan 08 00:00:39 you mean asking here? Jan 08 00:00:52 nah, like opengles help? #opengles .. sdl help? #sdl Jan 08 00:00:58 I was calling this channel #opengles, as in that's all that's being talked about here Jan 08 00:01:04 ooohh Jan 08 00:01:04 bpadalino: there _is_ no #opengles Jan 08 00:01:05 i am sorry Jan 08 00:01:09 that's terrible! Jan 08 00:01:11 start one up Jan 08 00:01:16 hell, i've seen more opengl talk in here than in #opengl, and no where there actually gets help lol Jan 08 00:01:32 so which gam eis better, NFS or Asphalt? Jan 08 00:01:33 Application Error; The application Asphalt5 has quit unexpectantly Jan 08 00:01:35 woops Jan 08 00:01:47 did rwhitby figure out how they launch NFS or xplane ? Jan 08 00:01:49 xcomp: nfs seems not to crash Jan 08 00:01:57 bpadalino: type:game Jan 08 00:01:59 bpadalino: good call on that book though. \o/ learning opengl es Jan 08 00:02:01 ah nice Jan 08 00:02:03 yeah I'm hearing a lot of reports of asphalt crashing Jan 08 00:02:07 dtzWill: yeah, pretty impressive Jan 08 00:02:17 I thought it was because I picked a cr that was actually locked Jan 08 00:02:38 bpadalino: the addison weseley one? Jan 08 00:03:03 maybe Jan 08 00:03:14 lol Jan 08 00:03:18 dtzWill: you talking about the same book i have? Jan 08 00:03:40 zsoc: yep, think so anyway. http://opengles-book.com ? Jan 08 00:04:30 dtzWill: yes yes, you are clearly ahead of me then :) Jan 08 00:04:39 zsoc: i skipped ahead :) Jan 08 00:05:11 ah lol Jan 08 00:05:19 it's the sdl wrapping that gets me Jan 08 00:05:22 i know that's the easy part to :P Jan 08 00:09:03 I think my phone locked up installing xplane :( Jan 08 00:14:44 preware is on the palm app catalog? Jan 08 00:14:52 ali1: no Jan 08 00:16:00 oh, i'm watching the ces and the lady said "especially thanks to the homebrew community who graduated into the palm app catalog", i guess she meant the people publishing their apps in preware then app catalog Jan 08 00:16:52 yep Jan 08 00:17:20 rwhitby: question is there someone here that's been working on a delicious app? Jan 08 00:18:23 prototypic: in context now i understand, but if you reread your question, it sounds a little funny Jan 08 00:18:41 lol Jan 08 00:18:52 del.icio.us Jan 08 00:19:13 soo im assuming someone has finally finished downloading need for speed? Jan 08 00:19:18 reason I ask is because someone placed a comment on my app catalog app, stating "this webos-internals" graduate is soon to be the webbrowser alternative for webos" Jan 08 00:19:58 freakout: ping Jan 08 00:20:11 prototypic: if it makes any difference, I do not know of anyone in here making a del.icio.us app, that's not really our style Jan 08 00:20:36 I figured, I was just wondering if someone got me confused with someone else, or another app Jan 08 00:21:58 maybe somebody was just hungry Jan 08 00:22:05 im hungry Jan 08 00:22:11 me too Jan 08 00:28:30 hey guys, can anyone tell me if anything big happened at ces Jan 08 00:28:54 nothing happened it was the biggest let down Jan 08 00:28:58 they just went over sales and stuff. Jan 08 00:29:07 nfoxTc: totally boring, i sold my pre Jan 08 00:29:10 yeah, underwhelming Jan 08 00:29:15 announced a few lame apps. Jan 08 00:29:18 yep, this isn't going to last long Jan 08 00:29:23 they couldn't even match our DOOM demo Jan 08 00:29:28 bored me to tears I tell you Jan 08 00:29:32 there were stick figures Jan 08 00:29:32 not even close Jan 08 00:29:42 lol ok for real Jan 08 00:29:44 they bragged about their facebook app for at least 20 mins Jan 08 00:29:48 and that power outage - 2 in 2 days? Jan 08 00:29:51 they announced webos 1.3.5.2 Jan 08 00:30:04 I saw the ea games so that's a start Jan 08 00:30:09 it will feature a new icon for the photos app Jan 08 00:30:14 they revised their mission statement, one update per week Jan 08 00:30:16 * zsoc whistles, "EVERYONE ABOARD THE TROLL TRAIN!!!" Jan 08 00:30:24 nfoxTc: they did, however, announce that Preware would be part of the standard OTA install from March. Jan 08 00:30:51 ah congratz guys Jan 08 00:30:53 man, i am bummed ... tmobile stopped their HotSpot @Home which does UMA .. i really wish they didn't .. :( Jan 08 00:31:00 and that Precorder would be the official video recording app that that time. Jan 08 00:31:03 And DOOM will be available in the catalog some time this next month Jan 08 00:31:17 nfoxTc: they hired me too Jan 08 00:31:17 some time this* month Jan 08 00:31:23 zsoc is also taking over from Mitch as CTO Jan 08 00:31:37 yeah, i gotta make coffee or something, not sure what CTO's do Jan 08 00:31:39 lol thought you were serious Jan 08 00:31:46 Can I be the Executive in charge of Cookies? Jan 08 00:31:58 Palm has no cookies, they are all about muffins Jan 08 00:32:00 ask Adora Jan 08 00:32:00 not trying to troll guys just wanna stay informed Jan 08 00:32:10 nfoxTc: youtube.com/palm Jan 08 00:32:30 annoyed that none of the new games have free demos Jan 08 00:32:51 WHAT... ITS LIVE NOW? that's lame Jan 08 00:32:58 same here zorin Jan 08 00:33:09 thanks rwhitby Jan 08 00:33:40 engadget has good coverage, as do many sites Jan 08 00:34:01 Sounds like 1.4 is going to be of the speed and quality they should have released as 1.0 Jan 08 00:34:16 so no flash news Jan 08 00:34:28 Zorin: like apple should have released the 3GS in 2007? Jan 08 00:34:35 nfoxTc: god, WATCH THE VIDEO Jan 08 00:34:42 nfoxTc: or at the very least read endaget/precentral Jan 08 00:34:52 k Jan 08 00:34:59 nfoxTc: or read the logs of the chat from the time of the presentation Jan 08 00:35:13 It should have been at least fast. Who knows how many potential customers didn't buy a Pre because they noticed it was so sluggish Jan 08 00:35:19 er, least been fast Jan 08 00:35:24 hehe so this is the rtfm channel Jan 08 00:35:35 we've been talking about it for hours. I think we are a bit talked out Jan 08 00:35:36 lol Jan 08 00:35:47 prototypic: no, just don't ask questions about things you can find by searching 100000 other methods Jan 08 00:35:48 snicker Jan 08 00:35:48 anybody signing on to freenode and not expecting to get a rtfm thrown at them is quite naive Jan 08 00:36:14 np guys I'll check out the video Jan 08 00:36:17 generally speaking we are a _very_ considerate and helpful community Jan 08 00:36:21 lol Jan 08 00:36:37 zsoc: compared to other dev channels I'v been a part of, I agree 100% Jan 08 00:36:46 this is very tame Jan 08 00:36:47 lol Jan 08 00:36:52 yeah... don't even try that ish in #bsd Jan 08 00:36:55 we are pro noob & AM Jan 08 00:36:59 havn't seen someone called noob once Jan 08 00:37:00 I wonder if Sprint will silently get the Pre Plus in a few months, once current original Pre stock runs out. Why would Palm waste money keeping two manufacturing lines going? Jan 08 00:37:05 I'm pro at cooking Jan 08 00:37:14 prototypic: no cause AM is more insulting Jan 08 00:37:15 * zsoc 's name is dave so we're cooking with dave Jan 08 00:37:31 i dont care about the Pre Plus Jan 08 00:37:34 Zorin: I dunno, I heard sprint had 50,000,000 Pre's warehoused Jan 08 00:37:36 i have a 2y contract Jan 08 00:37:43 (j/k) Jan 08 00:37:43 i will be getting the Pre++++ Jan 08 00:37:51 With the Pixi it's just a matter of SMTing the wifi chip or not, I bet. Jan 08 00:37:55 PuffTheMagic: stop being a prenis Jan 08 00:38:02 zsoc: u are the penis Jan 08 00:38:07 * xcomp will be getting the Palm Post Jan 08 00:38:08 jacques: If that's the case it could be a while Jan 08 00:38:15 PuffTheMagic: i love you too :D Jan 08 00:38:40 I buy my pre's from craigslist :) no contract needed same price as w/2yr contract Jan 08 00:38:45 But it sounds a bit much. 50 million unsold units? Jan 08 00:38:46 Zorin: I was joking, but if they do have a lot in stock it could be quite a while - til after verizon's exclusivity expires Jan 08 00:39:33 I actually remember them buying 100k units the other day Jan 08 00:39:43 i would get the gsm pre+ Jan 08 00:39:44 maybe the newer Sprint units will have the better slider and keyboard tho .... :-\ I want that now Jan 08 00:39:52 anyways... time to go find some grub and settle in for the game Jan 08 00:40:04 Well we don't know if Verizon has contractual exclusivity or just exclusivity because Palm needs to sell the remaining original Pres. Jan 08 00:40:24 bialw Jan 08 00:40:28 * xcomp doesn't care about the slider and keyboard, I just want more memory Jan 08 00:40:45 crazy Jan 08 00:40:56 But it doesn't matter. All the people on Verizon who have been wanting a Pre but didn't want to switch to Sprint are going to buy now and become new WebOS users. More market share = more development, more staying power in the market. Win for all. Jan 08 00:41:01 i never knew the plug end comes off my charger Jan 08 00:41:40 we'll see if this channel population goes up on 1/25 Jan 08 00:42:05 whats 1/25 Jan 08 00:42:11 Pre day for Verizon Jan 08 00:42:11 when pre+ and pixi+ come out Jan 08 00:42:13 on vzw Jan 08 00:42:27 i'm curious about abi compatibility Jan 08 00:42:38 also, Verizon now has tethering and Sprint doesn't. This is incentive for Sprint to get off their ass and be competitive and offer it. Jan 08 00:44:11 I need some help.. I went from 1.0.3 -> 1.3.5.1 and now ##usbpass# says "Can't set passthrough state: com.palm.usbpassthrough is not running." Any ideas? Please!! Jan 08 00:44:32 oh the video app is integrated with camera app Jan 08 00:44:33 nice Jan 08 00:44:52 Zorin: verizon is going to charge a monthly rate for tethering it seems Jan 08 00:45:12 WHAT IS A USBPASSTHROUGH FOR Jan 08 00:45:15 Zorin: we'll have to see if it's actually cheaper than just getting a MiFi from sprint Jan 08 00:46:57 hmm Jan 08 00:47:03 has anyone had their Pre keyboard stop working? Jan 08 00:47:04 verizon tethering is 5GB, $39.99 Jan 08 00:47:05 have any of u seen the vido of pre on precentral? Jan 08 00:47:33 if they have 1.3.5.1 how come swipe to delete works in video app :( Jan 08 00:47:38 and landscape too Jan 08 00:47:40 wtf Jan 08 00:47:58 * jtrucks is installing 1.3.5.1 now Jan 08 00:48:29 i hope the keyboard starts working... otherwise I'll have to back it all up and take it in tomorrow :( Jan 08 00:48:37 en0x: i'm pretty sure the pre on pc.net is running 1.4, not 1.3.5.1 Jan 08 00:48:49 that would also explain why it seems snappier Jan 08 00:48:59 i wonder if offering the flash beta on the app catalog means that it actually installs the plugin or just activates it like Classic does Jan 08 00:49:21 xcomp, so why engadget says that they are running 1.3.5.1 Jan 08 00:49:25 stupid engadget Jan 08 00:49:31 what's up guys? Jan 08 00:49:32 hmmm Jan 08 00:49:44 en0x: 1.3.5.1 does not have video recording. Jan 08 00:49:52 bpadalino: what's with that ridiculous loop at the end of the triangle of doom? :P Jan 08 00:49:53 latitude works perfect now Jan 08 00:50:01 who got need for speed???? Jan 08 00:50:12 * rwhitby has nfs and xplane Jan 08 00:50:28 zsoc, did i have it look for the escape key being hit to quit out of the loop ? Jan 08 00:50:30 xcomp, right and it also looks like its smoother Jan 08 00:50:39 I am downloading nfs now Jan 08 00:50:43 xcomp, my nfs seems crappy when closing Jan 08 00:50:46 or going to card view Jan 08 00:50:55 i wish it was in canada too Jan 08 00:50:56 i haven't bought nfs yet Jan 08 00:51:05 i got it but i havent paid for it Jan 08 00:51:05 I can't buy anything cuz my keyboard isn't working... can't enter the password :( Jan 08 00:51:06 hahahaha Jan 08 00:51:16 bpadalino: maybe, it pulls in all sorts of silly variables tho, like timeofday, and whatever starttime_tv_usec is Jan 08 00:51:25 those are commented out Jan 08 00:51:28 en0x: no pirates in here Jan 08 00:51:32 it is supposed to be an fps counter Jan 08 00:51:42 * xcomp scurries off to find some fodder Jan 08 00:51:42 well my credit card rejected the transaction... I was using 20bucks gift card from sprint Jan 08 00:51:47 bpadalino: OH hello, I can read, lol Jan 08 00:51:56 bpadalino: sorry, thank you for putting up with my dunceness again Jan 08 00:51:56 looks like i used all the no enough money on the card Jan 08 00:51:58 so if you calculate the delta time between frames Jan 08 00:52:01 but still i got my nfs Jan 08 00:52:01 ;p Jan 08 00:52:04 jtrucks...for freeeeeee???? Jan 08 00:52:08 i think they will have to fix it Jan 08 00:52:30 hmmm looks like the Pre+ has a bit different keyboard. Jan 08 00:52:46 it does Jan 08 00:53:01 it says pre+ is clicking don't know if I would like that Jan 08 00:53:08 hmmm Jan 08 00:54:04 1.3.5.1 installed now. Jan 08 00:54:30 okay. nfs looks amazing Jan 08 00:54:45 the keyboard works now!~! Jan 08 00:54:47 yay! Jan 08 00:54:50 * jtrucks does a happydance Jan 08 00:55:07 about to finish my download Jan 08 00:55:36 I used my wifi at work... we've got an almost unused 100mb pipe here. Jan 08 00:56:33 i wonder how many ppl downloaded the nfs Jan 08 00:56:47 604 Jan 08 00:56:55 wow Jan 08 00:56:59 6grands Jan 08 00:57:08 glyder2? Jan 08 00:57:18 i should make that freaking nfs and put it in app catalog Jan 08 00:57:19 :( Jan 08 00:57:21 whoa. Jan 08 00:57:26 1.3.5.1 is MUCh more responsive! Jan 08 00:57:39 placebo Jan 08 00:57:40 lol i though 1.3.5 was Jan 08 00:57:41 :P Jan 08 00:57:46 *cough cough* Jan 08 00:57:49 yeah, same here. Jan 08 00:58:07 i think i will doctor my pre when 1.4 comes out Jan 08 00:58:26 PuffTheMagic:either that or I just havne't used it much since I yanked out a bunch of patches trying to figure out why the keyboard stopped working Jan 08 00:59:15 jtrucks: i havent notices any differences since i've had it Jan 08 00:59:26 none of the updates seems to be any faster Jan 08 00:59:30 smoother Jan 08 00:59:30 w/e Jan 08 00:59:49 why so many ppl is bitching about pre+ not being on sprint Jan 08 00:59:50 omg Jan 08 00:59:52 I see less delays after doing something. Jan 08 00:59:59 does anyone else see the game 'glyder2'? Jan 08 01:00:12 Yeah most of us are on 2yr contracts anyway I'd assume. I'm sure by the time our contract is up it'll be there Jan 08 01:00:12 dtzWill, yap Jan 08 01:00:14 What do you guys think of Palm's "open web distribution of webOS apps" it sounds cool Jan 08 01:01:15 the app catalog should also say how big the game/app is Jan 08 01:01:47 en0x: agreed, what if you dont have room because you have the palm pre plusless Jan 08 01:02:04 lol u lame Jan 08 01:02:22 who cares about the palm pre plus?! Jan 08 01:02:26 more memory and ram Jan 08 01:02:32 no button Jan 08 01:02:33 notice in the nfs game that the pre button presses on the screen aren't quite the same that luna has ? Jan 08 01:02:42 s/button/touch/ Jan 08 01:02:42 bpadalino meant: notice in the nfs game that the pre touch presses on the screen aren't quite the same that luna has ? Jan 08 01:02:43 The Pre can certainly use more RAM. Mine has been up for a few days and a whole 60MB is swapped out to flash. Jan 08 01:02:56 cashen, i found the pre with center button more sexy now Jan 08 01:02:57 idk why Jan 08 01:03:05 plus it comes with the touchstone back Jan 08 01:03:20 Touchstone back is not that expensive Jan 08 01:03:23 en0x: you like older women don't you.. Jan 08 01:03:31 cashen, indeed Jan 08 01:03:37 When you consider how cheap they are to make, and the touchstone too, it really should be included with the phone. Jan 08 01:03:39 Zorin, right the ts itself is Jan 08 01:03:42 i think it should have come wit hthe touchstone anyway Jan 08 01:04:57 ok nfs time Jan 08 01:04:57 :) Jan 08 01:05:54 did you buy it? Jan 08 01:06:51 The only app on the slides not in the catalog is rock band Jan 08 01:07:24 cashen, of course Jan 08 01:07:47 i had guitar hero for wm Jan 08 01:07:49 it wasnt that great Jan 08 01:08:47 nfs is nice, just a little laggy Jan 08 01:08:50 haven't played any others yet. Jan 08 01:08:54 We need Settlers of catan Jan 08 01:09:02 cashen: hell yes we do Jan 08 01:09:08 GO LONGHORNS!!!! Jan 08 01:09:09 cashen: cities and knights ftw Jan 08 01:09:11 need more fps Jan 08 01:09:29 Wheat for wood anyone? Jan 08 01:09:33 cashen: Settlers is the best Jan 08 01:09:51 multi player of course Jan 08 01:10:03 PuffTheMagic: I have a custom made hexaganal wood catan table, inserts for tiles Jan 08 01:10:14 bull Jan 08 01:10:24 zsoc: expansion size? Jan 08 01:10:28 5-6 player size? Jan 08 01:10:43 PuffTheMagic: yep, has 2 "inserts" you can remove, 2nd makes it fit 5-6 Jan 08 01:10:43 Laughing ass off at this thread http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/220775-using-meebo-free-palm-pre.html Jan 08 01:10:59 zsoc: i just played setters and my aunt and uncles this weekend Jan 08 01:11:02 we combined a few things Jan 08 01:11:21 the fishing expansion and the barbarian one Jan 08 01:11:30 the rivers expansion Jan 08 01:11:32 is that a fun game Jan 08 01:11:33 what ever that is Jan 08 01:11:33 I'm a bigger fan of C&K than seafarers, but some of the barbarian stuff is cool :) Jan 08 01:11:40 gold gets weird sometimes Jan 08 01:11:41 RISK is involved for me on a board game Jan 08 01:11:42 haha Jan 08 01:11:46 omg we need to do this Jan 08 01:11:51 Settlers on the pre Jan 08 01:11:54 lol Jan 08 01:11:54 OpenGLES Jan 08 01:12:01 risk is sweet online Jan 08 01:12:02 with multiplater network support Jan 08 01:12:06 have you ever played conquerclub.com ? Jan 08 01:12:08 PuffTheMagic: paid app? lets start it up. Puffsoc LLc Jan 08 01:12:21 FrozenPuffZoc Jan 08 01:12:30 lol Jan 08 01:12:33 PuffTheMagic: i actually think theres a freesettlers somewhere... Jan 08 01:12:37 yeah Jan 08 01:12:40 i've heard of it Jan 08 01:12:54 have you played colosseum Jan 08 01:12:55 mmm. pinch zoom in/out Jan 08 01:12:58 i have not Jan 08 01:12:59 that is super fun too Jan 08 01:13:04 by the same company Jan 08 01:13:08 that would be a sweet game Jan 08 01:13:11 carcassone i'm a fan of :) Jan 08 01:13:12 same with TIcket To Ride Jan 08 01:13:24 welcome to #boardgames Jan 08 01:13:28 hey do you guys ever have problems with your emails not loading once you open one ? Jan 08 01:13:42 frozenbinary_: only prob i have is the 1000 e-mail limit Jan 08 01:13:43 :D Jan 08 01:13:48 i have 100000000000 emails in gmail Jan 08 01:13:50 damn LKML Jan 08 01:13:54 lol Jan 08 01:13:55 and the 30 other ML's Jan 08 01:14:02 but with 8 gig why delete Jan 08 01:14:12 sometimes, when i click on a simple text email .. it opens, and then is blank Jan 08 01:14:17 filter+lable+archive Jan 08 01:14:25 and then if i exit and reload Jan 08 01:14:28 it does the same Jan 08 01:14:43 I need to make a latex editor for the pre :D Jan 08 01:15:12 gmail owns Jan 08 01:15:30 people always ask, "where are the folders" Jan 08 01:15:33 i want to puke Jan 08 01:15:37 i;m on third level Jan 08 01:15:44 i might have to make a SDL extention for R so that i can do stats and make pretty plots from my pre Jan 08 01:15:46 in nfs I will see if i'm better than john :P Jan 08 01:15:59 * PuffTheMagic is switching from games to scientific + edu apps Jan 08 01:17:55 so you can sell stuff in the Palm's open app model Jan 08 01:17:58 wow Jan 08 01:21:45 PuffTheMagic: as a lifetracker, I wholeheartedly support this =] Jan 08 01:23:34 speaking of tracking, is anyone in here doing chanstats? Jan 08 01:23:45 Adora is in the chatroom and not at CES? Jan 08 01:23:46 Crazy. Jan 08 01:23:50 rwhitby: ping Jan 08 01:24:03 I'd be curious to see how the activity / user count of the webOS irc channels changes over time Jan 08 01:24:46 * Mousey recommends piebot Jan 08 01:25:03 dBsooner: psh, palm knows better than to send me to vegas Jan 08 01:25:08 HR incident waiting to happen there Jan 08 01:25:17 Adora: Note taken. Jan 08 01:25:17 lol Jan 08 01:25:57 today it's about as high as when the first webos-internals stuff hit i think .. Jan 08 01:26:00 * egaudet + GLES = FAIL Jan 08 01:26:06 egaudet: :( Jan 08 01:26:09 Adora: what do you do at Palm? Jan 08 01:26:15 egaudet: shhh, don't discourage me, i am only BEGINNING to fail Jan 08 01:26:24 this testgl won't port! Jan 08 01:26:26 PuffTheMagic: avoids HR incidents Jan 08 01:26:27 and I don't understand Jan 08 01:26:29 PuffTheMagic: I'm on the app review team under developer relations Jan 08 01:26:32 dtzWill figured out the spinning cube, didn't he ? Jan 08 01:26:38 egaudet: does it have glBegin and glEnd? :D Jan 08 01:26:40 howdy Jan 08 01:27:22 no Jan 08 01:27:24 i ported them Jan 08 01:27:25 to 1.1 Jan 08 01:27:28 Hi, what is the way to do a telnet to Pre, besides novaproxy.py? I am using Win7 32bit, and right after I updated webos to 1.3.5 it was possible to novaproxy to it and use putty terminal, I found the spc and now I have a line on my Pre but when I start putty now I get a black screen without prompt Jan 08 01:27:29 GLES Jan 08 01:27:39 egaudet: ok, so you ditched those then? :P Jan 08 01:27:41 I'm convinced the NFS guys have a special key to unlock this stuff! :P Jan 08 01:27:49 egaudet: Since rwhitby is missing in action ATM, I will ask you.. Jan 08 01:27:50 heh Jan 08 01:27:51 egaudet: 2.0 is pretty easy ;) Jan 08 01:27:53 yea I changed all the glBegin/glEnd to their proper static array stuff Jan 08 01:28:08 dBsooner, you get my pm back on pc Jan 08 01:28:10 egaudet: what errors? Jan 08 01:28:19 no errors Jan 08 01:28:40 just funky colors and then I close the app and it tells me 3430.12 FPS bahaha Jan 08 01:28:48 funky lines Jan 08 01:28:53 has anyone looked to see how these new "3d games" are packaged and where stuff is installed to, are they contained all in seperate directories, where are the NS plugins installed Jan 08 01:29:15 yea some cat the lists file at least Jan 08 01:29:33 egaudet: that's excatly my experience with 1.1 apps as well Jan 08 01:29:35 egaudet: I am thinking of making the patch submission form more robust.. Creating an initial question of "Updating" or "New" patch... If they select New, it takes them to the current form as it stands.. if they choose "Update" they are given the list of current patches and they can select one and it will populate the form for the user to edit and submit a NEW .patch file, etc. Jan 08 01:29:44 rwhitby: ^^ Jan 08 01:30:09 watch when the PDK comes out "you first must call glPalmSupersecretxx8x8xunlockletmeusetheglesstuff()" Jan 08 01:30:34 or maybe it's just not ready on 1.3.5 Jan 08 01:30:44 nevermind Jan 08 01:30:53 I just fail I dunno Jan 08 01:31:06 :( Jan 08 01:31:08 don't feel so down Jan 08 01:31:13 egaudet: yes, I did.. But that isn't what I was asking. As it stands now, his patch does a/dev/null, b/path/to/new/file.ext... so it's doing as you stated now.. he wanted to just package those full files up. Jan 08 01:31:15 dBsooner, whatever makes your life easier I say Jan 08 01:31:16 when you get it, you'll feel a lot better Jan 08 01:31:22 egaudet: no one has 1.1 working don't worry Jan 08 01:31:28 dBsooner, what are you talking about Jan 08 01:31:31 egaudet: i am more asking if you think it's worth the time. Jan 08 01:31:37 it does exactly what I'm talking about Jan 08 01:31:46 you think palm would ban me from the appstore if i issued a chargeback Jan 08 01:31:51 egaudet: lol... your private message Jan 08 01:32:19 but as for my mods to the upload form, I am asking if you think it's worth the time/effort. Jan 08 01:32:24 he just doesn't know how to use the -N flag I suspect, there is NO reason to separate the created files and add code to move them in place and check if something exists with that name already etc.... patch takes care of that Jan 08 01:32:25 egaudet: I expect some IOCTL or something we're missing Jan 08 01:32:50 dBsooner, for the form I suggested that you did that way back when I thought Jan 08 01:32:58 rwhitby: you're opinion on my idea above.. Jan 08 01:33:15 dBsooner: whatever works for you for the form Jan 08 01:33:50 ok Jan 08 01:33:53 dBsooner, make sure he knows that the patch is nto be generated against a "blank" file. it's an option to diff to treat nonexistant files AS blank files. Anyway, they are staying in patch :P Jan 08 01:34:00 go go gatchet php and mysql Jan 08 01:34:11 * dBsooner is going to have a coding fest tonight and tomorrow Jan 08 01:34:22 so we have paid working gles 1.1 apps, we need to find out how we can start using that stuff Jan 08 01:34:49 hey zsoc Jan 08 01:35:20 egaudet: well it would help if you were an opengl programmer Jan 08 01:35:26 but i dont think any of us are Jan 08 01:35:31 oh I just remembered I am in a data service / wifi area now. I can download games :-) Jan 08 01:35:55 egaudet: yo Jan 08 01:36:01 that would help but bah we can dooo it Jan 08 01:36:04 PuffTheMagic: some of us are pretty close ;) Jan 08 01:36:16 If you were porting 1.1 to 2.0, what happens with TexCoords Jan 08 01:36:22 zsoc: close is not good enough Jan 08 01:36:28 it's good enough for me! Jan 08 01:36:29 unless you are a game developer by trait Jan 08 01:36:35 egaudet: 1.1 to 2.0? you have to program all your shaders ;) Jan 08 01:36:41 i dont think we have a shot of writing anything our selves using GLES Jan 08 01:36:43 PuffTheMagic: nah, just read a book ;) Jan 08 01:36:55 PuffTheMagic: hey now, i _almost_ made a triangle Jan 08 01:36:59 zsoc: im sure i could make a cube spin Jan 08 01:37:04 that's like... 3 verticies! Jan 08 01:37:06 PuffTheMagic, it's still programming. You learn you code Jan 08 01:37:08 just don't make meat spin Jan 08 01:37:09 but big deal Jan 08 01:37:19 egaudet: yeah but who has the time to learn Jan 08 01:37:25 people go to school for game dev Jan 08 01:37:28 and still suck Jan 08 01:37:36 puff has a _small_ point, opengl is a huge endevor Jan 08 01:37:38 * zsoc does it anyway Jan 08 01:37:42 I mean I know I'm not whipping up any amazing GL apps any time in the foreseeable future, but I want to know enough to be able to for instance port tuxracer and have an understanding of things Jan 08 01:37:52 school just slows you down Jan 08 01:37:54 :p Jan 08 01:38:00 PuffTheMagic: i think what he's saying is he wants to learn just basics so he can port existing GL stuff Jan 08 01:38:08 for now yea Jan 08 01:38:10 rwhitby: what are the chances of letting me get admin access to the wiki and make the form an extension (plug-in) in the wiki... That would be AWESOME because I want to have an "admin" section.. I don't really feel like creating a login system. Jan 08 01:38:12 oh yeah im sure that is doable Jan 08 01:38:19 I don't plan on competing with EA or anything lol Jan 08 01:38:23 does anyone have any recommendations for a very very tiny linux server we can put in a VM just for cross compiling? Jan 08 01:38:24 :D Jan 08 01:38:37 It would also allow me to attach the wiki username to the form submission for accountability. Jan 08 01:38:58 destinal: like a customizable livecd ? Jan 08 01:39:09 dsl? Jan 08 01:39:14 destinal: yes Jan 08 01:39:20 destinal: any gentoo stage 3 Jan 08 01:39:21 bpadalino: I was looking at JeOS but it's 300mb base Jan 08 01:39:35 destinal: basically just need to compile your kernel Jan 08 01:39:38 and install grub Jan 08 01:40:00 destinal: and i have an ebuild for every package on palm opensource basically Jan 08 01:40:22 eh, I want to stick with scratchbox for now since it's so simple to use Jan 08 01:40:23 destinal: zsoc converted Jan 08 01:40:36 and universal Jan 08 01:40:43 destinal: you can use scratchbox on gentoo Jan 08 01:40:49 true Jan 08 01:40:51 gentoo stage3 will still be smallest Jan 08 01:40:58 but emerge is easy to use Jan 08 01:41:03 and ebuilds are glorified bash scripts Jan 08 01:41:13 they are easy to modify/create Jan 08 01:41:32 and the massive number of existing ebuilds that exist make it easy to get arm builds for stuff Jan 08 01:41:52 * zsoc install the gentoo theme on his Pre Jan 08 01:41:58 s/install/install Jan 08 01:41:59 :D Jan 08 01:42:16 s/s/install/install/s/install/installs/ Jan 08 01:42:27 whoops, forgot my \ Jan 08 01:42:29 's Jan 08 01:43:41 are there any hints of gles support in the emulator? Jan 08 01:44:11 how could that even work? a software emulation lib maybe? Jan 08 01:44:28 virtualbox has done full gl for a while Jan 08 01:44:36 omg omg omg Jan 08 01:44:41 we can use Qt 4.6 Jan 08 01:44:45 which has GLES support Jan 08 01:44:46 i guess its pretty optimistic to hope for that Jan 08 01:45:05 rwhitby: I have been reading about writing MediaWiki extensions on the mediawiki sites and it would be quite simple to write this form into an extension. What do you think? Jan 08 01:45:13 PuffTheMagic, can we even get one single demo using GLES 1.1 Jan 08 01:45:34 egaudet: well if I had the GLES headers it should be easy Jan 08 01:45:41 you do Jan 08 01:45:47 SDL_opengles.h Jan 08 01:45:48 but i havent looked for them on kronos Jan 08 01:45:55 you don't use the ones from kronos Jan 08 01:45:55 no not that one Jan 08 01:45:59 you use Palm's SDL_opengles.h Jan 08 01:46:00 yes that one Jan 08 01:48:27 quake and doom are using that? Jan 08 01:48:44 I would expect Jan 08 01:48:51 not Jan 08 01:49:04 then what are they using for graphics? Jan 08 01:49:05 sdl_opengles.h and sdl_video.h for good video headers for SDL and opengles Jan 08 01:49:06 quake and doom aren't using gles I thought just sdl Jan 08 01:49:33 SDL_opengles.h basically is everything you need from the kronos headers plus palm extras you need Jan 08 01:49:46 PuffTheMagic: sdl is pretty powerful Jan 08 01:49:55 zsoc: sure i know it is Jan 08 01:50:05 zsoc: what is your point of telling me that though Jan 08 01:50:09 ... Jan 08 01:50:10 how does that fit in Jan 08 01:50:16 you asked if they were using gles Jan 08 01:50:17 they are not Jan 08 01:50:50 we have exactly ONE app using anything GL, and that is bpadalino's doom triangles :) Jan 08 01:50:53 that's GLES 2.0 Jan 08 01:51:08 so what is quake using SDL_HWSURFACE Jan 08 01:51:10 PuffTheMagic: does qt build on arm? i think it worked for the maemo guys but idk if that was clean or what Jan 08 01:51:11 damned triangles Jan 08 01:51:15 SDL_SWSURFACE? Jan 08 01:51:22 PuffTheMagic: SWSurface Jan 08 01:51:29 no way Jan 08 01:51:33 PuffTheMagic: pre doesn't support HWSurface Jan 08 01:51:35 you can't use HWSURFACE Jan 08 01:51:36 it runs that fast with SQ surface? Jan 08 01:51:36 PuffTheMagic: ..yep Jan 08 01:51:40 holly shit Jan 08 01:51:47 why does gameboy emu run like shit then Jan 08 01:52:09 PuffTheMagic: is the graphics the bottleneck? Jan 08 01:52:12 anyone have a pixi? Jan 08 01:52:16 dtzWill: idk Jan 08 01:52:31 zsoc, port testgl or take my port and force it to work Jan 08 01:53:02 egaudet: pastebin it? i've been using my own, ali1's.. the more examples the better hopefully all of us together==one working gles 1 app Jan 08 01:53:06 egaudet: i know less about gles than you at this point i bet, bpadalino or dtzWill are the masters it seems Jan 08 01:53:10 kinda sad really, but that's how it goes Jan 08 01:53:17 wow, isn't CES week just the funnest week of the year Jan 08 01:54:12 why didnt palm use SDL 1.3 Jan 08 01:54:17 that has GLES support in it Jan 08 01:55:01 PuffTheMagic: it's still in testing, even now i think Jan 08 01:55:04 or was _just_ released Jan 08 01:55:14 yeah well... Jan 08 01:55:27 http://webos.pastebin.com/mf212c39 Jan 08 01:55:29 i'd expect to see lost of GLES shit soon Jan 08 01:56:40 The only GLES I see coming are from the big names like EA that work with Palm Jan 08 01:57:05 buy the book and get to learning shaders and math Jan 08 01:57:44 egaudet: why do you want to take on such a large task such as that pastebin example ? Jan 08 01:58:41 bpadalino, I don't know I learn faster jumping in over my head Jan 08 01:59:22 egaudet: take triangles example and add rotations ... or change the coordinates of the zooming so it becomes a cube ? Jan 08 01:59:56 I wanted to 1.1 first Jan 08 02:00:12 since porting games to 1.1 would be the easiest right now Jan 08 02:00:18 http://prboom.sourceforge.net/ -> http://www.nongnu.org/freedoom/download.html -> http://www.freewebs.com/mariodoom/downloads.htm Jan 08 02:00:28 Super Mario Doom. Jan 08 02:01:57 rwhitby: you get my messages above? Jan 08 02:02:26 egaudet: there are a shit load of openGL sdl apps that would run with some tweaks for GLES Jan 08 02:02:38 i would expect to see lots at soon as SDL 1.3 is outr Jan 08 02:03:56 PuffTheMagic, you say that but none of those apps could be simpler than the testgl demo Jan 08 02:03:59 hmmm Jan 08 02:04:06 and tuxracer which was ported to gles (iphone) Jan 08 02:04:54 If only one of those games in the app cat were open source Jan 08 02:09:45 lol @ ea releasing anything as opensource Jan 08 02:11:14 hmm so to start developing on the pre not sure if I should start with ares or the sdk now. Jan 08 02:11:33 cal_: -> #webos Jan 08 02:11:46 If you have a pixi and have root access to it and would like to help me research something please private message me Jan 08 02:14:42 rwhitby : so only backend linux native talk here instead of frontend webos talk? hehe Jan 08 02:15:19 cal_: if it uses official Palm APIs, then #webos is the best place Jan 08 02:15:21 cal_: we talk about what palm doesn't support officially, generally Jan 08 02:15:48 cal_: not kicking you out, just telling you where you'll get the best opinions Jan 08 02:16:02 cal_: i'd be willing to bet many of us have never seen the sdk ;) Jan 08 02:16:15 people in this channel will tell you to use vi and gcc ;-) Jan 08 02:16:39 * zsoc <3's vi; Jan 08 02:16:50 emacs FTW Jan 08 02:16:53 zsoc: you know enough to be able to code webos screens without the sdk? Jan 08 02:17:32 i saw that the pre plus has changes of the no button and a better keyboard and 16gb..but watching a clip and it seems its considerably faster Jan 08 02:17:34 at least in loading nfs Jan 08 02:17:37 cal_: er, it's just js + api's.. i played with.. 1? once? most of what i do is behind the scenes... Jan 08 02:17:51 is that just beause its a demo version and its made specifically to run it like that Jan 08 02:17:59 the preware frontend webos screens were not coded with the sdk? Jan 08 02:17:59 * oil can write mojo apps with his eyes closed Jan 08 02:18:04 or is it because the verizon pre has better components? Jan 08 02:18:18 hey should I still work on getting cross-compiling to work now for SDL apps or should I wait for palm to have an easier way to do it? Jan 08 02:18:25 cal_: oil did those Jan 08 02:18:35 so webos = mojo, just the pre's version of mojo? Jan 08 02:18:44 :/ Jan 08 02:18:46 cal_: mojo is a webos thing Jan 08 02:19:05 mojo is what luna runs? Jan 08 02:19:08 too many terms lol Jan 08 02:19:08 :/ Jan 08 02:19:23 mojo is the js library Jan 08 02:19:28 no... Jan 08 02:19:34 sorry oil i'll shut up ;) Jan 08 02:19:37 mojo is what austin powers has that attracts women Jan 08 02:19:44 no, he lost it Jan 08 02:21:01 the webos front end, which runs via luna, uses mojo for its js library. got it. Jan 08 02:21:40 webos is the os Jan 08 02:21:48 what all the pieces together is called Jan 08 02:21:51 no way, linux is the os Jan 08 02:22:09 linux is the core Jan 08 02:22:10 :D Jan 08 02:22:33 linux is the kernel Jan 08 02:22:39 well to be politicly correct, linux is the kernel, and gnu are the files Jan 08 02:23:40 so webos can be thought of as a linux distribution? paralelling ubuntu, gentoo, etc for the desktop loosly thinking Jan 08 02:24:35 can someone help? right now I get an error while trying to set up ScratchBox2 for cross compiling. so should I still work on getting cross-compiling to work now for SDL apps or should I wait for palm to have an easier way to make native apps? Jan 08 02:26:06 do you want to wait until march ? Jan 08 02:26:08 or do it now ? Jan 08 02:26:21 I would like now Jan 08 02:26:44 then it sounds like you know your answer Jan 08 02:26:49 I was not sure how soon they planned on releasing an easy way Jan 08 02:26:54 So, from filenames in the apps that we have, I reckon they are using http://www.mobilefish.com/developer/m3g/m3g_quickguide_docs.html, which points to http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=184, which makes sense from a web plugin 3D API point of view for Palm. Jan 08 02:27:06 cal_: there's usually less gnu in embedded devices Jan 08 02:27:30 elpollodiablo1: neither are we Jan 08 02:27:31 from what i gather, optware gave me 'gnu' Jan 08 02:27:45 i really dont know what was in /usr/bin before i installed optware Jan 08 02:27:53 ok Jan 08 02:27:57 a lot actually, much of it from busybox Jan 08 02:27:59 rwhitby: how did you deduce that ? Jan 08 02:28:00 rwhitby: no webGL? :( Jan 08 02:28:13 bpadalino: .m3g files in one of the apps Jan 08 02:28:16 no yet i guess Jan 08 02:28:19 it's all just a guess Jan 08 02:28:22 i imagine ls, grep, find, maybe things like iptables etc were all there Jan 08 02:28:25 ah interesting Jan 08 02:28:56 please no Linux vs GNU/Linux arguments Jan 08 02:29:13 most of the userland is busybox, which is not GNY Jan 08 02:29:14 GNU Jan 08 02:29:16 but optware basicly added more commands to /usr/bin/ etc right? Jan 08 02:29:38 no, optware puts stuff in /opt/bin Jan 08 02:29:39 rwhitby, ask theo what he thinks about gnu/linux :P Jan 08 02:29:44 oh Jan 08 02:29:49 * cal_ checks /opt/bin Jan 08 02:30:17 hello Jan 08 02:30:18 this is really more of a ##linux discussion... Jan 08 02:30:41 that's okay i'm done Jan 08 02:30:44 my touch screen is broken.. is there a way to force the phone into usb mode so I can make some backups. I do not have dev mode on eihter.. so Im wondering if im out of luck Jan 08 02:30:46 last i checked webos was built on linux Jan 08 02:30:52 cal_: not that i mind, just saying you may get more info there :P Jan 08 02:30:54 ok so im better than john rubenstein Jan 08 02:30:59 geist: like you would know :P Jan 08 02:31:00 datafirm: opt + sym + u Jan 08 02:31:02 im on 4th level of nfs Jan 08 02:31:02 :D Jan 08 02:31:09 i know, might need to check wikipedia or something Jan 08 02:31:09 geist: ah geist, always shutting me down... Jan 08 02:31:19 zsoc: i know linux, just figuring out pre linux differences Jan 08 02:31:23 but i think it uses linux i think Jan 08 02:31:28 lol Jan 08 02:31:29 egaudet: it won't compile or just not work? Jan 08 02:31:33 ird: beautiful! thanks Jan 08 02:31:36 or maybe it's winmo Jan 08 02:31:37 geist: honestly i'm unsure, feels more like a bsd to me Jan 08 02:31:42 oh wow i'm real late Jan 08 02:31:44 datafirm: np Jan 08 02:31:45 geist, you should check with jon ... it's build on the web and in the cloud! Jan 08 02:31:45 ali1, it compiles, i just get a bunch of random color lines Jan 08 02:31:55 yeah, it's a cloud Jan 08 02:32:02 with ponies and unicorns and rainbows and chocolate Jan 08 02:32:04 egaudet: we should make a random color lines club Jan 08 02:32:10 lol Jan 08 02:32:14 well then I need some help getting the "make stage" command to work. I get "C compiler cannot create excecutables" in the checking C compiler default output file name Jan 08 02:32:16 haha Jan 08 02:32:31 elpollodiablo1: i think make stage is busted Jan 08 02:32:43 lol that would explain it Jan 08 02:32:48 congrats - you're as far as i've gotten Jan 08 02:33:00 lol Jan 08 02:33:05 i want to get testgl working but i kind of want to dump it and learn 2.0 Jan 08 02:33:10 i have to work on my sb2 Jan 08 02:33:11 I thought some one complete the whole process? Jan 08 02:33:19 interesting, there are copies of a bunch of commands.. coreutils-rm as well as rm. odd Jan 08 02:33:20 ali1: drop testgl .. Jan 08 02:33:21 and i will prove that make stage is not busted! Jan 08 02:33:26 and try modifying simple examples Jan 08 02:33:42 damn, we give the ponies to the customers and not me? Jan 08 02:33:45 i want a pony Jan 08 02:34:05 yey even more battery improvements in 1.4 ;D Jan 08 02:34:06 I was going to start with some lessons at http://nehe.gamedev.net/ and port them, but he supplies broken makefiles Jan 08 02:34:10 geist, hows it feel to want?! Jan 08 02:34:13 * en0x does a happy dance Jan 08 02:34:14 * bpadalino pets his pony Jan 08 02:34:15 zsoc: were you going to release that freeciv port or no? Jan 08 02:34:28 egaudet: that's ok, i'm doing something 2848727834 easier than you and all i get is a black screen :P Jan 08 02:34:39 egaudet: http://opengles-book.com/ Jan 08 02:34:51 cal_: er... 'release' is a funny word. so is 'port'. basically you just remove the bit around !uid=0 and then compile it :P Jan 08 02:35:15 'compile' is a big word ;) Jan 08 02:35:16 "not yours" Jan 08 02:35:32 prolly requires me to do a debian jail and such Jan 08 02:35:36 http://img.moronail.net/img/5/4/354.jpg Jan 08 02:35:40 Is anyone willing to take a look at some sdl/gles2 nonsense? Jan 08 02:35:46 bpadalino: you in particular :P Jan 08 02:35:51 Well we are missin g something with gles1.1 Jan 08 02:35:56 zsoc, paste the nonsense ? Jan 08 02:36:02 zsoc, I want to look although I can't help Jan 08 02:36:04 geist, nice Jan 08 02:36:18 smoke time Jan 08 02:36:37 bpadalino: http://webos.pastebin.com/d5af48fee Jan 08 02:36:39 i am not a gles 2.0 specialist ... i just read the bing (i hear it's the new way to google) Jan 08 02:36:45 starbux time Jan 08 02:36:45 ok, the .m3g stuff is just one app, no commonality in the other app, so probably not the official PDK. Jan 08 02:37:03 rwhitby: interesting that it seems to support many "plugins" tho :> Jan 08 02:37:27 i've only had passing knowledge in desktop opengl so GLES in general is completely new to me Jan 08 02:37:36 would love to have this on my pre http://www.libsdl.org/games.php?order=name&category=-1&completed=0&os=-1&match_name=boulder&perpage=50 Jan 08 02:37:40 man that was a good game Jan 08 02:37:42 zsoc, where did you get this code ?! Jan 08 02:38:05 it should print a big white triangle i believe .. right ? Jan 08 02:38:17 bpadalino: I wrote it from scratch! nah, i can't even make that joke, lol yeah i'm trying to "Sdlify" the hello triangle Jan 08 02:38:24 bpadalino: y'know, page 1 lesson 1 sort of thing Jan 08 02:38:26 i did the same thing!! Jan 08 02:38:31 it worked! Jan 08 02:38:32 bpadalino: did yours work? :P Jan 08 02:38:35 but wasn't impressive Jan 08 02:38:38 ok well mine blows, so please dif them Jan 08 02:38:47 bpadalino: i'd like to understand gl :) Jan 08 02:39:05 so when we can have bomberman on pre?! Jan 08 02:39:17 en0x: have you tried getting sb2 to work at the make stage part? Jan 08 02:39:18 en0x: there's an sdl xbomber that compiles, it's just really bad Jan 08 02:39:27 elpollodiablo1, i will tomorrow at work ;) Jan 08 02:39:32 oh alright I Jan 08 02:39:44 I will look forward to what you find and if you can get it work Jan 08 02:39:51 zsoc: would this 'just compile' you think? http://www.artsoft.org/rocksndiamonds/download.html Jan 08 02:39:52 zsoc, you call Init() ? Jan 08 02:39:58 zsoc, hold .. Jan 08 02:40:16 so how does webos-internals compile sdl programs right now? Jan 08 02:40:18 is that white triangle stuff from the opengl es book? Jan 08 02:40:20 elpollodiablo1, i let u know now i'm going for a smoke and after that i'm going sleep Jan 08 02:40:38 why don't you call Init Jan 08 02:40:45 zsoc: http://webos.pastebin.com/m7e766c09 Jan 08 02:40:58 egaudet: ah yes, seems like a problem no? lol Jan 08 02:41:02 bpadalino: thank you very muchly Jan 08 02:41:07 no haptic stuff works, btw Jan 08 02:41:10 so you can comment that out Jan 08 02:41:52 bpadalino: hey! your Shader parameters aren't backwards ;) Jan 08 02:42:07 ;) Jan 08 02:42:12 i figured that one out! Jan 08 02:42:36 theyre probably just using the m3g format for their 3d models Jan 08 02:42:37 if i paid for an app and delete it from my phone can i redownload it from the appstore Jan 08 02:43:17 maybe type: game sets up something we need Jan 08 02:43:45 sampson: I would hope so but have never tried it Jan 08 02:43:53 sampson: has it ever been the other way? Jan 08 02:44:17 oil: you can download for free anything you've ever bought on that profile then? Jan 08 02:44:27 yeah... Jan 08 02:44:31 cool Jan 08 02:44:37 idk i paid for my first app today :3 Jan 08 02:44:47 * destinal bought xplane Jan 08 02:44:54 one day I hope to be good enough to land :) Jan 08 02:44:55 * sampson bought asphalt 5 and regrets it Jan 08 02:45:02 multiplayer MY ASS Jan 08 02:45:33 what the hell is that lady wearing during Palm's pres? outfit fail Jan 08 02:45:38 * oil likes palms new website Jan 08 02:46:01 oh well at least i have a native app to poke around in and see how it works :< Jan 08 02:47:05 i like that it shows howmany times my app has been downloaded for the first time Jan 08 02:47:10 and not for updates / redownloads Jan 08 02:47:23 so you know how many users, how much you get paid Jan 08 02:47:33 yeah, they got reports that break it down Jan 08 02:47:46 rwhitby: are you up? Jan 08 02:47:52 does palm-package in sdk 1.3.5 allow type game Jan 08 02:48:03 bpadalino: what is you method to getting rid of the crappy esUtils's stuff in the book? I think my method was... fail Jan 08 02:48:16 comments ? Jan 08 02:48:24 You'd think we'd have _1_ guy that knows GL here lol Jan 08 02:48:29 bpadalino: it seems to do some pretty important stuff tho Jan 08 02:48:34 nah, it' Jan 08 02:48:35 s all bull Jan 08 02:48:41 zsoc: before, someone who knew gl would have no use for it on the pre Jan 08 02:48:41 that esUtils is crap Jan 08 02:49:01 oil: i mean we have a lot of guys here from a lot of different backgrounds Jan 08 02:49:21 bpadalino: so what exactly is the best method for "extracting" it? Jan 08 02:49:33 zsoc, hand editing i guess ? Jan 08 02:49:46 i am not sure .. i just remember taking the original demo and going "wtf, mate?!" Jan 08 02:49:54 then comments and saying "f this .. i know what to do" Jan 08 02:50:06 bpadalino: ok, i suppose some of the context confused me, i think i trimmed a little too much, i actually see what i did wrong Jan 08 02:50:13 ah Jan 08 02:50:18 i mistook a fairly important variable for part of esUtils :P Jan 08 02:50:37 whoops Jan 08 02:51:10 ooh IT DOES Jan 08 02:51:12 how exciting Jan 08 02:51:41 it does ? Jan 08 02:51:58 yas Jan 08 02:52:11 what does ? Jan 08 02:52:13 destinal: http://i48.tinypic.com/2ah7bs7.png Jan 08 02:52:19 palm-package work with type game in 1.3.5 Jan 08 02:52:24 :) Jan 08 02:52:38 ah neat Jan 08 02:52:42 congrats oil Jan 08 02:54:45 that month will put my total at like a grand and a half Jan 08 02:54:58 wow, sounds good Jan 08 02:55:05 it doesn't show the current month Jan 08 02:55:06 oh hey Jan 08 02:55:07 http://www.imgtec.com/PowerVR/insider/sdk/KhronosOpenGLES2xSGX.asp Jan 08 02:55:13 that looks kind of useful! Jan 08 02:55:19 but i could calculate it from the total, and downloads the prior months Jan 08 02:55:26 ali1: it's not really Jan 08 02:55:27 oil: so do you do interest-free loans? Jan 08 02:55:27 imo Jan 08 02:55:38 you're going into the army, what do you need money for? Jan 08 02:55:49 booze Jan 08 02:55:54 lol Jan 08 02:55:56 oh :( Jan 08 02:56:03 oil: congrats bro, you deserve the cash :) Jan 08 02:57:00 considering there is 3 other apps (and their free versions) in the catalog competing with my game Jan 08 02:57:13 * oil should put "FIRST!" as his app description Jan 08 02:57:33 oil: but yours is good :> Jan 08 02:57:34 lolol Jan 08 02:58:12 now you have to do blocked 3D oil, with GL Jan 08 02:58:19 srsly Jan 08 02:58:26 dont forget dotgame 3d Jan 08 02:58:32 cube-based xD Jan 08 02:58:43 ooh. mind-bending! Jan 08 02:58:47 lol Jan 08 02:59:12 * freakout-Pre is so tired Jan 08 02:59:21 tired? isn't it like mid day there? Jan 08 02:59:27 damn 5am start Jan 08 02:59:32 yeah Jan 08 02:59:37 didn't go to bed till 1 last night Jan 08 02:59:44 STO? Jan 08 02:59:47 i installed openssh and openssh sftp on my pre, but i cant figure out how to actually login via winscp...any idea what im doing wrong? Jan 08 02:59:53 * oil gets his open beta key tomorrow apparently **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jan 08 02:59:57 2010