**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jan 13 02:59:57 2010 Jan 13 03:02:41 oc80z: yeah, recovery mode Jan 13 03:03:07 egaudet_wirc: ping Jan 13 03:04:20 egaudet: ping Jan 13 03:04:28 ping pong Jan 13 03:04:30 good Jan 13 03:04:37 Jason wants to talk to you. :) Jan 13 03:04:43 AUPT yo Jan 13 03:04:44 <|Jason8|> I do? Jan 13 03:04:46 <|Jason8|> :P Jan 13 03:04:58 Nah, you're Freddy |Jason8| Jan 13 03:05:03 AUPT is a magical being with super powers Jan 13 03:05:15 Yes.. but he wants to know the step by step of these magical powers Jan 13 03:05:43 * rwhitby bbl Jan 13 03:05:48 wait! Jan 13 03:06:00 rwhitby stay... pastebin me that log so i can try to figure out what broke. Jan 13 03:06:08 err. please. Jan 13 03:07:02 How do you set HTML mode in Logmein.com for the Pre? Jan 13 03:07:36 dBsooner: FYI: http://git.webos-internals.org/trac/webos-patches/ <- don't break it again Jan 13 03:07:49 what did I do? Jan 13 03:08:09 Wait, I know what I did.. I just wanted to know WHAT it did. Jan 13 03:08:24 I clicked the wrong upload file.. but I wanted to know what it did on the backend to make it go boom. Jan 13 03:08:27 http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6956/sdkpluginsm.png Guys does tux's eyes look okay? Jan 13 03:08:47 PuffTheMagic: ping Jan 13 03:10:42 So Palm said 1.4 is coming february and that flash beta will be out before that. Does this mean 1.4 is like last day of february and flash beta is out late this month, or do we think it'll hit any day now? Jan 13 03:10:56 Templarian: haha is he stripping the cord on the power plug that plugs into the SDK? Jan 13 03:11:23 seems like Palm would like to get 1.4 out as soon as possible near verizon release date (?) Jan 13 03:11:31 destinal: Sure, needed a way to convey it was internals other than tux. Jan 13 03:11:33 How do I delete contacts that have been added by AIM? Jan 13 03:11:46 toaster89, delete them from AIM :) Jan 13 03:11:46 I deleted them in AIM but they wont delete off my contacts on my pre.. Jan 13 03:11:48 Toaster89 delete aim Jan 13 03:11:49 lol Jan 13 03:11:49 Templarian: I like it Jan 13 03:11:55 Toaster, resync Jan 13 03:11:59 k Jan 13 03:12:02 thanks :) Jan 13 03:12:13 Templarian suo buddy Jan 13 03:12:16 Toaster, err wait you can't sync aim, delete aim and then reenter your credentials Jan 13 03:12:33 sup* Jan 13 03:12:33 ok Jan 13 03:12:58 i'm out l8r all Jan 13 03:13:18 mobgod|away: I don't know what suo is. Jan 13 03:13:38 oh, nvm didn't scroll all the way down was looking at something above. Jan 13 03:13:50 psykoz: I'm pretty sure they said the flash beta requires 1.4 Jan 13 03:14:17 etx__, I thought they said Flash will be out out in 1.4 and that beta will be available soon (?) Jan 13 03:14:20 etx I dont know about that Jan 13 03:14:26 yeah they said beta soon Jan 13 03:14:28 flash out in 1.4 Jan 13 03:14:54 From the way they worded it I thought it required 1.4, lemme go check the video Jan 13 03:14:54 dtzWill: dang you're right, its 2 Jan 13 03:15:16 ali1: yeah. i think easy solution is just to rip out the other texture bindings, since we don't need them anyway. Jan 13 03:15:28 ali1: doing that now. although i was hoping it was three, instead of the 4 it wants. Jan 13 03:16:03 more attributes for other things at least Jan 13 03:16:13 if there are other things i dunno Jan 13 03:16:16 ali1: although.. does that mean only 2 textures? maybe i'm an opengl nub but it seems rather limiting to only have 2 textures on your scene? or am i missing something? o_O Jan 13 03:16:47 dtzWill: theres 2 vertex texture units so... Jan 13 03:16:48 hmm Jan 13 03:17:11 can't you combine two textures into one, get the next texture, combine that and so on? Jan 13 03:17:17 or is that impossible? Jan 13 03:17:46 i really don't know. sure sounds possible to me. but imagine a 3d room or something--you'd wanna just make quads for each surface and have gl do it's thing... wouldn't you? Jan 13 03:18:10 maybe programs are smart and have one large 'map' texture uploaded and each surface just uses a subsection of that. Jan 13 03:18:44 i dont' really know :/ even the 4 he wrote this 4 seems painfully limiting if texture counts are abused the way i assumed they were :) Jan 13 03:18:55 11:35: Pre customers can get beta "soon" Jan 13 03:18:56 11:35: from app catalog Jan 13 03:19:22 psykoz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mn6oNKVd29g&feature=player_embedded Jan 13 03:19:27 @ 48 min in Jan 13 03:19:36 11:48: Real flash, flash 10, available in app catalog soon Jan 13 03:19:38 11:48: with work with any pre with webOS 1.4 Jan 13 03:19:41 dtzWill: i'm even more clueless than you as i'm learning opengl as i go along Jan 13 03:19:48 John says it will be available for 1.4 Jan 13 03:19:50 yeah Jan 13 03:20:08 they say "real flash" will be, but earlier say Pre customers can get beta "soon" from app catalog Jan 13 03:20:14 dtzWill: I'm going to query up all the GL_MAX stuff for easy reference Jan 13 03:20:18 which sucks, I'm looking forward to it Jan 13 03:20:20 ali1: glad i fooled you--i started learning opengl.. a week ago? haha. so i think we're in the same boat :) Jan 13 03:20:26 it's kinda a tough one to decipher what they mean Jan 13 03:20:27 well i hope its sooner for sure Jan 13 03:20:29 yeah Jan 13 03:20:32 destinal: ping Jan 13 03:20:45 ali1: that would be great. if you want, wiki it up else send it to me and i'll do it. that's information people should have Jan 13 03:20:56 yeah Jan 13 03:20:59 dBsooner: pong Jan 13 03:21:04 woohoo! Jan 13 03:21:06 PuffTheMagic: sup Jan 13 03:21:13 PuffTheMagic: hey Jan 13 03:21:20 PuffTheMagic: Do you have the python egg for IniAdminPlugin? Jan 13 03:21:20 DrFunk: taking a break from packing Jan 13 03:21:45 destinal: enterminus already supports "resizing" so it will be really easy to support orientation changes Jan 13 03:21:46 PuffTheMagic: packing what ? Jan 13 03:21:53 DrFunk: im moving Jan 13 03:21:59 PuffTheMagic: awesome Jan 13 03:22:02 dBsooner: make it your self it easy Jan 13 03:22:19 destinal: and i thinki found a font thats a little nicer than default Jan 13 03:22:30 PuffTheMagic: easier if you already had it of 0.11.. ;) Jan 13 03:22:33 PuffTheMagic: nice somewere warm ? Jan 13 03:22:38 DrFunk: nope Jan 13 03:22:47 DrFunk: from one side of NY state to the other Jan 13 03:22:56 from Buffalo to Troy (Albany) Jan 13 03:23:06 PuffTheMagic: fuck Jan 13 03:23:08 dBsooner: making eggs is easy Jan 13 03:23:28 dBsooner: just use Python2.5 i believe Jan 13 03:23:33 PuffTheMagic: we need to get up I'm in CT Jan 13 03:23:38 ok Jan 13 03:24:04 dBsooner: never got a tweet back from u Jan 13 03:25:10 owell I'll talk to you people later going to watch a movie with the old ladt Jan 13 03:25:13 lady * Jan 13 03:26:33 dBsooner: i think i have the egg Jan 13 03:26:58 yep i do Jan 13 03:27:01 Sweet! Jan 13 03:27:05 gimme Jan 13 03:27:06 dBsooner: but i think you should learn to make eggs Jan 13 03:27:09 fine Jan 13 03:27:13 so idk if i am gonna hand it over Jan 13 03:27:15 http://omploader.org/vMzhwZQ Jan 13 03:27:18 * dBsooner makes eeggg Jan 13 03:27:22 only freebe Jan 13 03:27:30 IniAdmin-0.2-py2.5.egg Jan 13 03:27:45 this is for 0.2.. but works for 0.11? Jan 13 03:27:48 :D Jan 13 03:28:19 no Jan 13 03:28:23 its version 0.2 Jan 13 03:28:35 which is works with what we run Jan 13 03:28:42 all that matters.. Jan 13 03:28:47 * dBsooner don't wanna break Trac again. Jan 13 03:28:51 rwhitby would shoot me Jan 13 03:28:59 what did you do? Jan 13 03:29:09 I had an old egg.. v 0.1 Jan 13 03:29:17 but it was on my desktop Jan 13 03:29:26 I accidentally clicked setup.py instead of the egg Jan 13 03:29:31 when I uploaded Jan 13 03:29:31 dtzWill: hold on Jan 13 03:29:39 ali1: holding :) Jan 13 03:29:45 dtzWill: i think i gave you the wrong info Jan 13 03:29:48 so caused Trac to fail with error 500 Jan 13 03:30:04 it might be 8 vertex texture units Jan 13 03:30:15 ali1: !! haha. that's a lot better :) Jan 13 03:30:31 actually i'm pretty sure it is argh Jan 13 03:30:41 i should make an actual program than trying to use gdb Jan 13 03:30:42 PuffTheMagic: Do you edit the GitConnector in the trac.ini? Jan 13 03:30:53 i disabled all that shit Jan 13 03:30:57 ali1: but we still think we're limited to 8 attributes? Jan 13 03:31:10 let me check on that one more time Jan 13 03:31:12 ali1: LOL. well a program works too :P Jan 13 03:31:40 dtzWill: it returns 8 Jan 13 03:33:53 *grins* Jan 13 03:33:57 you can spit and break trac Jan 13 03:34:17 infact, frickin worst software dependency ever lined up in it ;) Jan 13 03:34:26 software dependencies* Jan 13 03:35:00 Rick_work: ping Jan 13 03:47:00 dtzWill: got them Jan 13 03:47:22 not sure all of them but most of them Jan 13 03:48:18 dtzWill: is sending to the email you've specified in GIT fine? Jan 13 03:49:36 I just doctor my phone where is the alpha preware at again? Jan 13 03:51:14 http://developer.palm.com/webChannel/index.php?packageid=ryan.gahl.1plus1equals2 Jan 13 03:53:58 Robi_, that looks nice Jan 13 03:53:59 Requires webOS 1.3.5 ? Jan 13 03:54:14 Wish it was more visually appealing though Jan 13 03:54:41 rwhitby: i cant remember where i got the alpha preware at can u lead me in right direction? Jan 13 03:54:50 JMyaDaGod: last three lines on the wiki page Jan 13 03:55:18 lol, guys if someone can code it I will make an animated tux that touches two wires and the backlight fades in and out. Jan 13 03:55:18 The app catalog has a beta program? wtf? Jan 13 03:55:49 whoa all green and odd, when did this happen Jan 13 03:55:49 Abyssul: yep, the feed is in alpha Preware. Jan 13 03:56:00 wow! Jan 13 03:56:03 rwitby: ok thanks also for the freetether do i have to install all 3 ipk on testing feed? Jan 13 03:56:19 JMyaDaGod: what's the wiki page say? Jan 13 03:57:08 rwhitby: nothing on freetether wiki is there? Jan 13 03:57:33 Gimme?!?! :) Jan 13 03:57:35 JMyaDaGod: guess not. ask PuffTheMagic then Jan 13 03:57:41 lol ok thanks Jan 13 03:57:53 * rwhitby uses built-in bluetooth tethering on 1.3.5.2 Jan 13 03:58:19 hmmm u suck....can u doctor a us pre with that? Jan 13 03:58:34 have you tried it on 1.3.5.1 ? Jan 13 03:58:55 i wouldnt know where to start to try it Jan 13 03:59:16 oh, weird, i opened up the updates app now it gives me 1.3.5.1 feature highlights Jan 13 04:04:42 rwhitby: is the bit.ly/dDEMO link not good enough? Jan 13 04:05:46 rwhitby: I now have a spare phone until I send it back, anything that needs testing? Jan 13 04:10:44 rwhitby: the 1.3.5 is not a req, ryan just picked it ;-/ Jan 13 04:12:55 Robi_ :now we need a patch to hide calculator Jan 13 04:13:19 that's cake Jan 13 04:13:54 I'm going to write a calculator app called 2+2=5 Jan 13 04:14:01 yeah take that budy! Jan 13 04:14:02 buddy! Jan 13 04:14:03 ;) Jan 13 04:14:25 i was thinking the same Jan 13 04:14:41 overly large values of 2 baby! Jan 13 04:15:05 its not downloading.....ur app Jan 13 04:15:19 did for me Jan 13 04:15:26 worked fine for me Jan 13 04:15:31 poking around with it at the moment Jan 13 04:15:40 how does one browse all beta apps is the question Jan 13 04:15:59 maybe its because its trying to restore all my other apps i just doctored Jan 13 04:16:32 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site:developer.palm.com+webChannel/&aq=f&oq=&aqi= Jan 13 04:16:43 looks like they've had this for a few other apps Jan 13 04:17:16 does that link work? Jan 13 04:17:36 interesting, watch this: Jan 13 04:17:45 http://developer.palm.com/webChannel/index.php?packageid=com.glitchtechscience.checkbookbeta (working url) Jan 13 04:18:21 i couldnt download because it was restoring need for speed Jan 13 04:18:21 http://developer.palm.com/webChannel/index.php?packageid=com.noapp (obviously a broken url/non-existant app) Jan 13 04:18:53 empty bag Jan 13 04:19:06 Nevermind thing I was trying to show I mis entered,, nevermind my ramblings Jan 13 04:19:14 man the new phone I just plgged in still has the huge ? on screen flull blast Jan 13 04:19:37 Wish the checkbook app automatically grabbed data from your bank website Jan 13 04:19:43 and I dont like how the power button doesn't click like my old phone!! Jan 13 04:21:45 yea my boys power button is like a chore Jan 13 04:22:08 abyssul, mint.com ;> Jan 13 04:24:23 ya mint is good Jan 13 04:24:29 never use it ;-/ Jan 13 04:25:05 Robi_ how about vibrate patch does it work for ur calc? Jan 13 04:25:12 does the pre still vib when you use the silance switch? Jan 13 04:25:20 rwhitby: how do I add the Git browser to the Trac? Jan 13 04:25:21 i dont do vibrate patches Jan 13 04:25:23 waste of batt Jan 13 04:26:25 so you can't really browse webChannel directly Jan 13 04:26:30 but just fyi: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1844&Itemid=322 Jan 13 04:26:39 neat thing is they give you the rss feeds for their beta apps Jan 13 04:27:08 so I bet just watching that (hourly?) with wget/grep might yield instant-ish knowledge of when flashplayer hits beta Jan 13 04:27:34 we have preRSS? Jan 13 04:27:45 psykoz: they said the XML's are only updated at midnight Jan 13 04:27:51 ahh Jan 13 04:27:57 well then midnight it is ;> Jan 13 04:28:27 oh wait.. the update feed is every 30 minutes Jan 13 04:28:29 just added: http://developer.palm.com/rss/B/appcatalog.rss.xml to my google reader, so I guess I'll keep an eye on it Jan 13 04:28:33 expect RyanGahl to join soonish Jan 13 04:28:37 and lists everything for past 48 hours from that update Jan 13 04:29:55 sup everyone Jan 13 04:30:02 well added beta apps + updates feed to my rss reader, so I'll keep an eye on it Jan 13 04:30:09 and now that I have a replacement device my old one is working well Jan 13 04:30:48 Update feed for beta apps: http://developer.palm.com/rss/B/appcatalog.update.rss.xml Jan 13 04:30:51 The update feeds are updated every thirty minutes with those applications added in the 48-hour period before the feed update. Jan 13 04:31:10 so that's the one you want not the appcatalog feed Jan 13 04:31:26 theres an app that does it also i gotta wait for phone to reboot to tell u name of it though Jan 13 04:31:45 I got the right feeds Jan 13 04:31:50 /B/ means beta Jan 13 04:31:57 (notice the feed I pasted has /B/ in it) Jan 13 04:32:10 I'm assuming it means beta Jan 13 04:32:19 the other urls are under folder /D/ Jan 13 04:32:44 JMyaDaGod: AppScoop is the name I think Jan 13 04:32:54 It's nice they're putting out their beta channel via standard RSS feed, that's rather convenient Jan 13 04:33:08 lol phone just rebooted and was gonna type it yea appacoop Jan 13 04:33:18 appscoop* Jan 13 04:34:37 how does one get the 9.14 preware? I checked the wiki and couldn't find any info Jan 13 04:35:10 psykoz: no, there's two sets of /B/ feeds Jan 13 04:35:19 dtzWill: you around? Jan 13 04:35:37 JGardner : last 3 lines of wiki page Jan 13 04:35:39 JGardner: look at the bottom advanced usage Jan 13 04:35:43 gotta use ssh Jan 13 04:35:47 or terminal Jan 13 04:36:35 thanks! Jan 13 04:37:39 haha http://developer.palm.com/webChannel/index.php?packageid=com.datpiff.mobile Jan 13 04:37:41 ali1: yep Jan 13 04:39:27 dtzWill: i've got all the GL_MAX stuff Jan 13 04:43:00 love the repeat notif patches Jan 13 04:43:25 that should so be a part of the OS Jan 13 04:43:39 one wonders if ever they'll put those in Jan 13 04:44:14 well, the nice thing about the way patches are installed through preware (wrapped in an ipk), Palm should in theory be able to see what patches people are using Jan 13 04:44:35 ali1: wonderful, ty Jan 13 04:44:40 so they could in theory see that XX% of users are using this patch... lets add it into the base OS Jan 13 04:44:58 of course wether or not they do that is up to them... but in theory they could Jan 13 04:45:14 cryptk|werk: why? just ask us, we'll give them the download stats Jan 13 04:45:31 yeah, but why should they ask when they already have the data Jan 13 04:45:48 how will they already have the data (unless you mean they're profiling the ipkg database) ? Jan 13 04:46:00 they'd have to go out and get it from everyone Jan 13 04:46:04 they can see everything that is installed on the phone Jan 13 04:46:15 how else does that information get backed up in the palm profile Jan 13 04:46:44 also you can't see patches in ipkg afaik Jan 13 04:46:57 its quilt or 'patch' Jan 13 04:46:59 have you noticed that when you doctor (pre 1.3.1) the only apps reinstalled were the ones you had installed at the time of last backup, not every app you ever downloaded Jan 13 04:47:00 psykoz: the Pre uploads lots of data to Palm's servers. Look in the rdxd directories. Jan 13 04:47:14 of course that doesn't really apply now since apps stay through a doctor Jan 13 04:47:16 I'm aware, I just didn't realise they were profiling the ipkg database Jan 13 04:47:27 but they can in theory see the ipk's for the patches Jan 13 04:47:29 psykoz: in particular, they see ps -ef, ipkg list, and lots of other stuff every time something crashes on your Pre Jan 13 04:48:20 That's why the people pirating apps are so hilarious, cause they don't realise Palm knows exactly what they are doing. Jan 13 04:48:23 rwhitby: too bad they can't offer support on that Jan 13 04:48:30 and rwhitby, correct me if I am wrong, but when preware installs a patch it is wrapped in an ipk right? Jan 13 04:48:49 so it should show up in ipkg list Jan 13 04:48:51 Robi_: actually Palm has contacted homebrew developers to give them feedback on widespread crashes Jan 13 04:49:08 nice Jan 13 04:49:23 rwhitby: I didn't know that... that is pretty cool Jan 13 04:49:36 rwhitby: i meant on an individual basis Jan 13 04:50:52 when I did my own test of palms copy protection I noticed that any pirated apps also showed up in the app catalog under the list of installed software Jan 13 04:51:02 that alone should be enough to show you that they WILL know Jan 13 04:51:12 which is good motivation to not do it Jan 13 04:51:37 and I am sure a future update will include a pretty robust copy protection scheme Jan 13 04:52:08 there is great potential, both good and bad, with palms data polling Jan 13 04:52:41 it can be patched Jan 13 04:52:54 unless it is in a binary... Jan 13 04:53:06 it can still be patched Jan 13 04:53:10 then you would need the source code to patch it Jan 13 04:53:16 nope Jan 13 04:53:33 ok... fine... I will bite... it is much more difficult to patch without the source code Jan 13 04:53:53 I know everything can be patched, even in binaries, but it comes down to is the patch worth the effort Jan 13 04:53:59 you think all the people doing patching for apps/games have the source? Jan 13 04:54:11 it's just a few op codes that need changing Jan 13 04:54:13 read my previous statement Jan 13 04:54:41 key is having the tool to track when and where Jan 13 04:55:01 there is a difference between bypassing activation/serials for a game (small opcode change) and removing a whole subset of a binary while maintaining it's other functionality Jan 13 04:55:19 trust me, I know how it all works Jan 13 04:56:34 btw, this whole conversation is for educational purposes only, lol, nobody do this kind of stuff, it is very very very bad... Jan 13 04:56:57 unless you are rwhitby... cause Rod can get away with whatever he wants and Palm would love it, lol Jan 13 04:57:32 sup ali1, how has your OGLES work been coming? Jan 13 04:57:48 sweet orb is wroking :) Jan 13 04:59:01 another project that I beta test for is coming along very nicely... Jan 13 04:59:13 anyone else here heard of Mangler? Jan 13 05:00:41 what is it Jan 13 05:00:51 natice linux ventrilo client Jan 13 05:00:58 s/natice/native/ Jan 13 05:00:59 cryptk|werk meant: native linux ventrilo client Jan 13 05:01:15 Anyone here got 1.3.5.2? Would love to have the ability to bluetooth or wifi tether. Jan 13 05:01:25 if you're gaming on linux Jan 13 05:01:37 I do game on linux Jan 13 05:01:51 obviously Jan 13 05:01:53 and the game runs better than it does in windblows Jan 13 05:02:04 which games? Jan 13 05:02:13 mainly WoW Jan 13 05:02:46 found out that alot of people in my guild have Palm Pre's... I pointed them all at webos-internals.org Jan 13 05:02:53 could work on the pre Jan 13 05:02:54 and preware.org Jan 13 05:03:12 Robi_: what could work on the pre? WoW or Mangler? Jan 13 05:03:40 #2 Jan 13 05:03:46 party line Jan 13 05:03:59 there is someone porting it to Android... don't know how much progress they ahve made though Jan 13 05:04:08 whats the bw req? Jan 13 05:04:29 very low Jan 13 05:04:42 a phone with good signal could probably run it Jan 13 05:04:49 if it were on WiFi then definitely Jan 13 05:04:53 dtzWill: are you working on the vertex attribute stuff or did you want me to go ahead and take care of it? Jan 13 05:05:09 cryptk|werk: just for clarification, I have paid for every paid app on my Pre Jan 13 05:05:26 I know you were probably joking, but this stuff is publicly logged. Jan 13 05:05:30 rwhitby: So have I... I did a quick test, but that is jsut what it was... a test Jan 13 05:05:51 and every app on my phone is a free app (Except NFS which is paid for) Jan 13 05:06:00 (pair for by me, lol) Jan 13 05:06:08 s/pair/paid/ Jan 13 05:06:08 cryptk|werk meant: (paid for by me, lol) Jan 13 05:06:32 I was expecting from rwhitby: "I didn't pay for my paid apps cause I made them all, lol!" Jan 13 05:06:41 I looked through NFS and didn't even see a serial number in there or anything, I was kinda amazed Jan 13 05:06:44 ali1_: either is okay. something else came up that i was taking care of, but that should be done now. i'll give it a look Jan 13 05:07:02 rwhitby: have you ever put out a paid for app? Jan 13 05:07:11 dtzWill: alright Jan 13 05:07:50 ali1_: dtzWill: I have no clue what you guys are working on, but it seems like it is OGLES related... and it seems like you are making progress... so two thumbs up from me! Jan 13 05:08:21 what's up all Jan 13 05:08:30 odd palm shipped me a phone with no battery, yet it's on the packing list Jan 13 05:08:39 btw, if anyone wanted to port Mangler over to the pre, I am willing to beta test it, lol Jan 13 05:08:49 Robi_: that is odd... Jan 13 05:09:07 no wonde rit wouldn't turn on Jan 13 05:09:21 cryptk|werk: no, I have not put out a paid app for webOS Jan 13 05:09:36 that is what I thought Jan 13 05:09:48 bonjour destinal-wirc Jan 13 05:09:51 <-- feels like lametard for not joining IRC much sooner Jan 13 05:10:04 hey Jan 13 05:10:17 RyanGahl: I have learned an amazing amount from this IRC Jan 13 05:11:05 so, vRobM (twitter name, not sure his name here) mentioned he pinged the group re: my 1+1=2 app, and there were Q's about the 1.3.5 req... Jan 13 05:11:21 man the refurb phone has a 1.5mm gap around the top Jan 13 05:11:23 let me just say... I'm lame there - just picked it hurriedly - it's not a req. Jan 13 05:11:45 RyanGahl: tiz I Jan 13 05:11:46 req? Jan 13 05:11:54 hi Robi_ Jan 13 05:11:58 yo Jan 13 05:11:59 requirement Jan 13 05:12:19 oh Jan 13 05:12:39 i assumed every1 is on 1.3.5 so just picked it - I will fix for next version in case any1 cares Jan 13 05:13:30 also.. thx to you guys for all the patches, LU Jan 13 05:14:04 cool Jan 13 05:16:20 rwhitby: did you ever see my question about being able to specify a list in preware of app developers to hide? Jan 13 05:17:22 ali1: well i made the changes i thought were appropriate, getting 0x502 now, so i'll investigate. Jan 13 05:17:23 cryptk|werk, that was discussed at length here weeks ago and the developer could not figure out how to completely hide the apps, so he settled for dimming them Jan 13 05:17:42 cough brighthouse Jan 13 05:17:58 dtzWill: i've had that error too, didn't know where it came from though Jan 13 05:18:10 there are about three I would like to hide now Jan 13 05:18:13 ali1: debugging ftw hehe Jan 13 05:18:15 jacques: I am not talking about in the app catalog, I am talking about in preware Jan 13 05:18:21 but i don't its related to the attributes stuff Jan 13 05:18:26 think* Jan 13 05:18:28 the alpha version of preware integrates the palm RSS feeds Jan 13 05:18:59 weren't you asking earlier about the app catalog - a few hours ago? Jan 13 05:19:09 no Jan 13 05:19:12 maybe it was someone with a nick similar to yours Jan 13 05:19:13 preware Jan 13 05:19:15 is anyone working on Ogre3D port to PDK yet - contacted the dude that did the iPhone SDL port - I want to start asap but need to get hands on more PDK info Jan 13 05:19:28 I asked about preware a few hours ago, but then I fell asleep, lol Jan 13 05:19:47 I was talking to someone about it... I think it may have bee dBsooner Jan 13 05:19:52 s/bee/been/ Jan 13 05:19:52 cryptk|werk meant: I was talking to someone about it... I think it may have been dBsooner Jan 13 05:19:53 ali1: that demo they give is so sweet!! haha. Jan 13 05:20:03 cryptk|werk: it's just a matter of work to put that in Preware. Submit a well-written patch. Jan 13 05:20:04 ali1: spining moving transparent textured cube xD Jan 13 05:20:22 dtzWill: its the best dang cube i ever did see Jan 13 05:20:34 ...and it uses 1.3% cpu Jan 13 05:20:34 rofl Jan 13 05:20:40 rwhitby: that's the thing, I don't know enough to be able to code it so I wanted to see if anyone that does is willing to pick it up Jan 13 05:21:23 if you don't want to code it, that is fine, I was just curious about it's feasability Jan 13 05:23:41 wow... I just got assigned a ticket at werk that is gonna tae at least 3 hours to fix... bbiab... :( Jan 13 05:24:38 cryptk|werk: it's definitely feasible - the author information is there, and it's software so anything is possible. Jan 13 05:25:07 more impoartantly, it is software that we have full control over, unlike the app catalog... Jan 13 05:25:39 ali1: btw why was the shademodel stuff commented out? was it like that when you had it, or..? Jan 13 05:25:47 one small thing I thought of, a way to tell app catalog apps from homebrew apps while looking at the list of apps would be nice... or at least a way to tell if an app is free or paid from the list Jan 13 05:25:51 it was like that, yeah Jan 13 05:26:01 ShadeModel isn't implemented yet Jan 13 05:26:03 instead of having to click into the app, scroll down and look for a price Jan 13 05:26:09 in fact its just an empty define heh Jan 13 05:26:25 ali1: you doing Ogre3D? Jan 13 05:26:44 no, we're doing an opengl 2.0 wrapper for 2.0 es Jan 13 05:26:56 k, more general, cool Jan 13 05:27:33 is there PDK info published other than Palm's glossy webpage yet? Jan 13 05:27:56 you can pretty much do anything PDK right now if you want Jan 13 05:28:01 look at webos-internals.org Jan 13 05:28:31 duh right there - sometimes the big fonts are the hardest to see Jan 13 05:28:32 thx Jan 13 05:28:39 no prob Jan 13 05:29:11 it's not yhe Jan 13 05:30:22 not same as what palm will put out but can be used great apps and games now Jan 13 05:30:33 k, so FYI - plan is to port Ogre3D (es1.1) and hopefully with top-level js bindings into game engine subsystems - yay, fun, challenging, fun Jan 13 05:30:54 uses sdl like palm stuff does so very similar Jan 13 05:31:34 hope my incessant Q's here as a noob in the group won't drive you guys bonkers Jan 13 05:31:46 ryan: no javascript Jan 13 05:31:55 ? Jan 13 05:32:11 no - i mean i shall create said bindings Jan 13 05:32:11 cryptk|werk: free vs paid is already there in 0.9.14 alpha Jan 13 05:32:20 that's the plan Jan 13 05:32:35 (hope) Jan 13 05:32:48 why js? Jan 13 05:33:30 because that's the top level of the platform Jan 13 05:33:38 why not js Jan 13 05:33:39 no Jan 13 05:33:43 lol Jan 13 05:34:26 you think our doom port had javascript? Jan 13 05:34:40 no no of course not Jan 13 05:34:51 is native like iphone Jan 13 05:35:05 yep Jan 13 05:35:06 me wonders what js would be used for Jan 13 05:35:11 trust me i get that part Jan 13 05:35:38 you can't mix sdl and mojo Jan 13 05:35:42 idea is to componentize subsystems Jan 13 05:35:44 can't? Jan 13 05:35:46 it's software Jan 13 05:35:48 :) Jan 13 05:36:05 uh Jan 13 05:36:30 ok Jan 13 05:36:38 good luck Jan 13 05:36:42 RyanGahl: you sound like you've done this stuff before? Are you a games developer on another platform? Jan 13 05:36:51 my understanding of the PDK (Palm's plans) is that it will enable native components, which IMHO if they're doing this right, should allow scriptability Jan 13 05:37:07 components vs. apps Jan 13 05:37:56 well apps will likely integrate with plugins Jan 13 05:38:25 but probably not sdl and plugins Jan 13 05:39:10 well - yeah I don't know yet what's going to be easy or hard about this idea, but I know it's possible Jan 13 05:39:17 must be :) Jan 13 05:39:18 sdl apps are currently totally outside mojo Jan 13 05:39:35 and likely to remain so Jan 13 05:40:31 +rwhitby: not a games developer per se, but been tinkering for years, biding time for an opportunity like this platform...I'm in lust with this stuff Jan 13 05:40:43 ryan: it's closed source so palm controls that generally Jan 13 05:41:39 from their PDK page: "The PDK supports a wide range of use cases, ranging from full-screen 3D games to compute-intensive tasks that run behind the scenes of an app written mostly in HTML, JavaScript and CSS. Plug-ins can render graphics to the entire display, to just a portion, or not at all." Jan 13 05:42:07 to just a portion? Jan 13 05:42:19 so is that your plugin only takes up half a card Jan 13 05:42:23 probably npapi Jan 13 05:42:25 psykoz: i'm assuming that's either undocumented api or api that won't exist until 1.4 Jan 13 05:42:26 and the other half is the standard dev ? Jan 13 05:42:27 you can specify how big you want an embedded element to be in html Jan 13 05:42:28 which leads me to believe we'll be able to treat this stuff basically like a Flash/Flex widget, with a handle to the DOM/js runtime Jan 13 05:42:37 like terminal Jan 13 05:42:44 ali1, ahh, so like browser + flash areas Jan 13 05:42:50 yup Jan 13 05:42:54 gotcha Jan 13 05:42:58 right, but native powerz Jan 13 05:43:02 rwhitby: I know free vs. paid is already there, but is it indicated in the list of apps or do you have to click into the app to tell the difference? Jan 13 05:43:02 except the flash areas can be plugins you develop Jan 13 05:43:03 Not a bad idea Jan 13 05:43:22 right terminal has done this for months Jan 13 05:43:36 destinal-wirc, nod Jan 13 05:43:42 We need a patch to keep messenger from adding friends as contacts :P Jan 13 05:43:51 hence... Ogre3D as componentize framework with js bindings Jan 13 05:44:14 well Jan 13 05:44:50 I don't think 3d is as suited to npapi Jan 13 05:44:54 (they said it couldn't be done... they called me crazy...) Jan 13 05:44:56 :) Jan 13 05:45:02 as it is sdl Jan 13 05:45:16 toaster89, I don't want to speak for palm, but I've basically come to assume that contacts is a dirty list, a dirty list palm wants you to also treat as dirty and if you want ot clean it up, you clean it up on your 3rd party sources for that information Jan 13 05:45:36 yeah :P Jan 13 05:45:36 toaster89, so that being said, i let go of contacts app long ago and have really learned to be religious about search on the device Jan 13 05:45:47 but palm could find a way to mix them Jan 13 05:46:26 cryptk|werk: have you run the latest alpha Preware? just try it and see Jan 13 05:46:31 it's not an unheard of idea, plugin based engines abound, with js bindings (very common), python, etc... Jan 13 05:46:47 I have it installed, but I can't have my Pre in the building at werk anymore so i can't check now Jan 13 05:47:00 ryan: I know Jan 13 05:47:04 it's just a matter of writing an interface from c++ land to the runtime Jan 13 05:47:09 er, js-runtime Jan 13 05:47:11 toaster89, the other thing you can do to make your contact list happier is whatever your primary contact list (google apps, gmail, exchange, etc..) Jan 13 05:47:14 I reorginzed my gmail contacts so I could sync that with my pre Jan 13 05:47:17 we have had them forever on webos Jan 13 05:47:25 toaster89, clean it up now and put people's IM information in that Jan 13 05:47:29 yeah Jan 13 05:47:35 yeah thats what i've been doing Jan 13 05:47:36 toaster89, this way you get the 'merged' contact view. Jan 13 05:47:53 some contacts though I just DONT want showing up Jan 13 05:47:58 god forbid if they ever add msn Jan 13 05:48:04 I'll just stick to meebo Jan 13 05:48:15 100+ contacts on msn :P Jan 13 05:48:16 that hooker you chatted with, set her up as "Hooker Bitch" and then put her AIM info in as Hookersuckyocock and then when you integrate AIM into your Pre, Hooker Bitch is the only thing you see ;0 Jan 13 05:48:17 eh? Jan 13 05:48:27 destinal-wirc: well, anyway, like I said, that's what I _want_ to do... I guess we'll find out how it goes Jan 13 05:48:47 toaster89, *note* I spend most of my time on my Pre chatting through terminal+ssh+irssi+bitlbee Jan 13 05:48:55 you can do it today Jan 13 05:49:12 not with accel 3d tho Jan 13 05:49:14 bitlbee is ur friend if you're an irc nerd Jan 13 05:49:28 Yeah I mostly use SMS Jan 13 05:49:42 toaster89, ever heard of bitlbee? Jan 13 05:49:53 nope Jan 13 05:50:14 http://www.bitlbee.org/ - they have public servers if you dn't want to setup your own ircd Jan 13 05:50:34 hmm Jan 13 05:50:39 ryan: I just don't think javascript improves that game Jan 13 05:50:45 that wouldnt be bad Jan 13 05:50:47 it is an ircd that has oscar (aim/icq)/jabber/msn/yahoo/other support Jan 13 05:51:02 game engine, you mean? Jan 13 05:51:05 so you basically have your own "irc room" and everyone who is connected is a user in your room Jan 13 05:51:27 Now if I wasent such a n00b at this makefile/linux stuff I could fix scummvm :P Jan 13 05:51:47 ryan: yes Jan 13 05:51:50 bitlbee is in optware, available for the Pre Jan 13 05:52:08 and rwhitby pwns Jan 13 05:52:22 * psykoz notes he just ssh's and screens so he never knew of optware bitlbee port Jan 13 05:52:27 it improves it inasmuch as it makes it possible to have scriptable 3D environments and improves the open source game-dev toolstack for the platform Jan 13 05:52:46 lower barrier to entry, et. al. Jan 13 05:53:19 however rwhitby makes a good point, Pre wIRC + Bitlbee is probably the coolest alternative to palm's native IM platform Jan 13 05:54:01 tell me more about this beetle bee Jan 13 05:54:38 my interests. it is relevant to them Jan 13 05:54:38 xcomp, it's just an ircd gateway to multiple IM networks Jan 13 05:54:53 destinal: i mean, look at HTML5's Canvas tag... Adobe Flex's js-interface... it's not hard to see how the js API makes the widget richer Jan 13 05:54:58 it just makes AIM/yahoo/gtalk/msn act like IRC Jan 13 05:55:13 why didn't I think of this before Jan 13 05:55:27 it is genius Jan 13 05:55:50 it is Jan 13 05:55:55 it's been around for almost a decade now Jan 13 05:56:22 I would have never used AIM if I didn't have it "delivered" to me in irc format Jan 13 05:56:36 http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/unstable/bitlbee_1.2.4-1_arm.ipk Jan 13 05:59:06 hi Jan 13 05:59:41 hey Jan 13 05:59:44 i'm searching for a rss-reade, did someone a name of a reader? Jan 13 06:00:04 anyway guys, sry it took me so long to get my ass in here - I'll be on more often :) - heading home, peace out Jan 13 06:00:04 reader Jan 13 06:00:12 Hey all, I am having some issues with Preware and need some troubleshooting suggestions :) Jan 13 06:00:24 freakout: liking sdl so far? Jan 13 06:00:29 xcomp, the source packages in your Makefiles - are they just straight checkouts ? or are they already patched? Jan 13 06:00:58 i wish there was a "opengl, please stop execution if there's an error" mode. Jan 13 06:01:02 jacques: the efl packages have minor modifications for building Jan 13 06:01:16 Bye Gahl Jan 13 06:01:25 dtzWill: i think i narrowed it down Jan 13 06:01:40 dtzWill: unless you already found it Jan 13 06:01:44 jacques: -rpath-related stuff mostly Jan 13 06:02:01 xcomp, ah, OK. I was hoping we could just have the Makefiles do the checkout and then patch with a local patch Jan 13 06:02:08 ali1: oh well don't i feel worthless. you implemented what i was working on and debugged it? haha :( Jan 13 06:02:16 ali1: where is it? Jan 13 06:02:23 ali1: i was narrowing it down rtfn Jan 13 06:02:33 jacques: well that would be slower, but I am keeping track of my patches anyway Jan 13 06:02:40 so it is an option Jan 13 06:02:46 dtzWill: i didn't implement it but i've always had 502 Jan 13 06:03:01 gotta go - will be back in a little while Jan 13 06:03:08 dtzWill: i think its within the second call to wes_bind_program Jan 13 06:03:10 jacques: the packages are manually packaged from svn by me Jan 13 06:03:29 at least on testgl Jan 13 06:03:43 is there a rss-reader for palm preston ? Jan 13 06:04:01 xcomp, I added SVN support to cross-compile for libGLUES_CM Jan 13 06:04:15 Jellica: have you installed the latest versions with webos quick install 2.96 ? Jan 13 06:04:18 xcomp, you can specify a rev Jan 13 06:04:35 anyway, something to think about - back in a bit Jan 13 06:04:35 jacques: yeah I noticed, but evas needs some work before we can output to GLES Jan 13 06:04:45 I have Jan 13 06:04:55 jacques: I took a look at that - it seemed you had two separate targets there Jan 13 06:05:02 jacques: the gles code in there right now is X11 based, we need to convert to SDL Jan 13 06:05:08 ali1: i'm stuck in wes_state_update. Jan 13 06:05:12 Jellica: what versions of each do you have? Jan 13 06:05:32 karrote_exe: I recommend you ask I'm #webos Jan 13 06:05:42 rwhitby, you are referring to SRC_SVN and SRC_SVN_REV ? Jan 13 06:05:45 Sargun: /'m/n/ Jan 13 06:05:46 ali1: i think my changes fix what you are seeing; maybe it's giving you the invalid operation b/c you're binding an attr that is 1 too many? Jan 13 06:05:58 stupid wirc Jan 13 06:06:03 nah that's 1281 for sure Jan 13 06:06:11 destinal-wirc: jes, webos Jan 13 06:06:24 jacques: yep, I was expecting one target, with a variable that controlled the version or tag Jan 13 06:06:30 there is another channel Jan 13 06:06:32 dtzWill: i swear i saw 502 in a bunch of uniform stuff Jan 13 06:06:33 #webos Jan 13 06:06:39 not this one Jan 13 06:06:53 ali1: well testgl stops in wes_state_update for me as well. Jan 13 06:06:53 rwhitby, OK I must have misunderstood what you had in mind - feel free to modify Jan 13 06:06:54 I have the latest one that just came out this month and then afterward I ran the Emergency Patch Recovery thing but now Preware is not starting up properly Jan 13 06:06:58 jacques: one variable that triggers svn, and a separate co-variable that defaults to HEAD but can be overridden for the version Jan 13 06:07:05 ali1: the bindprogram, is that in wes_init or while it's running? Jan 13 06:07:19 while its running Jan 13 06:07:22 Jellica: version numbers for Preware and Package Manager Service please Jan 13 06:07:25 * xcomp wonders why some developers insist on maintaining their own crappy Makefiles instead of using autotools Jan 13 06:07:30 or at least when it creates those fragment shaders Jan 13 06:07:31 your Makefile sucks Jan 13 06:07:35 get rid of it Jan 13 06:07:36 :P Jan 13 06:07:49 i'm looking at you, lua writer Jan 13 06:07:54 xcomp: autotools is a huge barrier to entry for a lot of people Jan 13 06:08:18 jacques: I'm not sure I had anything in mind, I just thought that when I saw the code. Jan 13 06:09:03 ali1: okay. i'm in various parts of wes_matrix that are causing issues, particularly their calls to flush---the actual drawing operations seem to go through fine which is engouraging, although it could be b/c they're drawing nothing yet :) Jan 13 06:09:04 rwhitby: i can understand entry level stuff. but when you're writing your own scripting language, I seriously doubt that autotools is that difficult for you to comprehend Jan 13 06:09:22 Preware 0.9.10 I am not sure where to find the other version info you are asking for... Jan 13 06:09:33 now it looks like I'm going to have to repackage lua manually using autotools Jan 13 06:09:49 stupid thing doesn't even build an .so Jan 13 06:10:07 dtzWill: could you push your attr fix? i want to confirm if i'm crazy or not Jan 13 06:10:48 hmm.. conan has two trending topics on twitter Jan 13 06:11:07 Jellica: it's likely you don't have the lastest then, which are preware 0.9.12 and package manager service 0.9.29 - you should follow http://install.preware.org/ to install the latest Jan 13 06:11:11 xcomp: cause autotools sucks Jan 13 06:11:23 rwhitby, I wasn't very awake when I wrote it :-) Jan 13 06:11:30 BIAB Jan 13 06:11:47 PuffTheMagic: it's convoluted and annoying, but it is pretty darn good at getting the job done in a platform independent manner Jan 13 06:11:58 ali1: gimme a sec; need to pull out some of my debugging stuff :). Jan 13 06:12:13 thanks Jan 13 06:12:24 Okay will do that now. I will let you know what I come up with momentarily Jan 13 06:12:54 destinal-wirc, yes? Jan 13 06:13:59 Sargun: wirc misunderstood and autocompleted you by miatake Jan 13 06:14:02 sorry Jan 13 06:18:35 Can I do this from my handset or do I have to hook the device up to the computer and everything like I did when I first began using Preware? Jan 13 06:18:58 you could just do it over wifi Jan 13 06:19:12 hooking up is so 2009 Jan 13 06:19:36 dtzWill: i got 502 on wes_state.c line 188 Jan 13 06:20:44 Lol! Thanks and yeah I so agree with you about the whole USB thing Jan 13 06:23:37 Jellica: if you're comfortable with the Linux command line, you can do it over wifi if you are able to ssh into the Pre. Jan 13 06:23:50 Otherwise, do it via http://install.preware.org Jan 13 06:24:11 rwhitby: did you see the thing about mobilehotspot segfaulting on you? Jan 13 06:24:38 destinal: yeah, did you get any further? Jan 13 06:24:58 not yet, haven't figured out what param types it wans yet Jan 13 06:24:59 my next step was going to be capturing dbus while bluetooth tethering Jan 13 06:25:18 yawn Jan 13 06:25:19 if i setup Bluetooth DUN on Phone X, can the Palm Pre connect to it? Jan 13 06:25:29 bout to pass out Jan 13 06:25:29 I don't expect it to necessarily use hotspot services but it's worth a shot Jan 13 06:25:45 and load every app possible through quick installer. Jan 13 06:25:49 rwhitby: hotspot services use other AP services and routing and stuff that tethering may also use Jan 13 06:25:54 there a limit still, like.. still? Jan 13 06:25:59 rwhitby: but you're likely to gain information regardless Jan 13 06:26:28 ali1: pushed Jan 13 06:26:28 destinal rwhitby thanks for the walkthrough Jan 13 06:26:39 hey whats good d0lph1nK1ng Jan 13 06:26:44 oc80z: you're welcome Jan 13 06:26:56 doom hurts your fingers to play lool Jan 13 06:26:58 dtzWill: thanks. did you check out that line? Jan 13 06:27:19 ali1: that's where i get it too. Jan 13 06:27:19 i srsly just checkboxed about 200 apps on quickinstall Jan 13 06:27:24 got the nexus one, so transferred to tmo, but still want to run internet-based apps using the Pre. was hoping i could tether to N1 when not by wifi Jan 13 06:27:39 ali1: but it was from matrix stuff, not from buildprogram. Jan 13 06:27:49 weird Jan 13 06:28:06 rwhitby: Thanks for all of your help...I am just gonna do this tomorrow bc I am not familiar with Linux. I have got to get this up and running again soon though! Jan 13 06:28:35 d0lph1nK1ng: probably it can do so, whether it's supported out of the box I don't know Jan 13 06:28:48 dtzWill: i think it didnt get a bind on uEnableColorMaterial correctly Jan 13 06:29:16 ali1: it drives me crazy that this isn't error checked haha. idk how he wrote this :D Jan 13 06:29:34 whoa cool dking. Jan 13 06:29:39 apparently he started this on a PowerVR emulator Jan 13 06:30:06 people started to report real machine errors when devices had SDKs released for them Jan 13 06:30:32 still think error checking in your damn init routine wouldn't hurt haha. :). Jan 13 06:30:35 destinal: hmmm ok, i'll play around with it a lil more. thanks Jan 13 06:30:36 heh Jan 13 06:30:49 d0lph1nK1ng: you can probably connect to a PAN and add a route at least Jan 13 06:30:56 via terminal Jan 13 06:31:39 ali1: that aside i think your guess is probably correct. Jan 13 06:31:40 depending on how nexus one supports tethering to you that may work Jan 13 06:31:46 if it's DUN, may be harder Jan 13 06:31:57 one was USB, other was DUN Jan 13 06:32:36 ali1: tell me if i'm wrong but is that variable *ever* written to? Jan 13 06:32:38 then it may be trickier, I promise if you send me a nexus one I'll develop something though :) Jan 13 06:32:58 wow Jan 13 06:33:01 haha Jan 13 06:33:08 dtzWill: i saw a SetUniform1i to it Jan 13 06:33:08 quick istall with the fail Jan 13 06:33:20 d0lph1nK1ng: honestly I assume that it's ppp over bluetooth serial if it's DUN Jan 13 06:33:33 but you really would prefer bluetooth PAN and routing Jan 13 06:33:34 crashes after the 10th or 15th app Jan 13 06:33:46 ali1: but that passes the value, and we're in c so no reference stuff. unless a GLint is a int *?? Jan 13 06:33:47 tried to restart novacomd, and retrying fail. :/ shit Jan 13 06:33:58 d0lph1nK1ng: maybe you're in luck and it's the latter Jan 13 06:34:05 ali1: OH updateUnform is his macro thing i forgot about that Jan 13 06:34:20 yeah Jan 13 06:34:27 what i'm wondering is where the bind happens Jan 13 06:34:28 it uses DUN, the android app called PdaNet Jan 13 06:36:09 d0lph1nK1ng: *nods* i don't know much about bluetooth DUN. I would try seting up a linux PC to use it first and then once you have that going figure out how to do the same type of thing on pre Jan 13 06:36:29 u can kill the installer and restart from where u left off :D Jan 13 06:36:36 socket did die though Jan 13 06:36:40 got it workin on windows pc pretty quick. will try linux Jan 13 06:36:56 thanks for the tips Jan 13 06:37:07 d0lph1nK1ng: if it's just a certain command or program or something you may be able to install it on pre also Jan 13 06:37:10 you're welcome Jan 13 06:37:13 only have 0 avail blocks on crypto Jan 13 06:37:13 wow Jan 13 06:37:22 quickinstall throws files in there? Jan 13 06:37:42 oc80z: files? Jan 13 06:37:42 /media/cryptofs/apps Jan 13 06:37:47 good pt Jan 13 06:37:57 webosquickinstall.jar Jan 13 06:38:25 weak Jan 13 06:39:21 we should be able to use /media/internal Jan 13 06:39:26 am i wrong? Jan 13 06:40:26 dtzWill: uniform binding happens in wes_uniform_loc in wes_shader.c Jan 13 06:40:27 oc80z: /media/internal and /media/cryptofs are the same partition Jan 13 06:40:43 dtzWill: it doesn't seem he binded uColorMaterial Jan 13 06:40:46 cryptofs is just an overlay / layer on top, same disk Jan 13 06:40:49 really... Jan 13 06:41:00 yup Jan 13 06:41:01 well it was saying 0 blocks free Jan 13 06:41:17 ali1: looks like it. Jan 13 06:41:25 *shrug* Jan 13 06:41:29 so if you df -k you'll see, same stats on /media/internal as /media/cryptofs (unless there's something really wrong) Jan 13 06:41:35 ali1: errr Jan 13 06:41:47 i loaded dunno, a -bunch- of apps in quickinstall, Jan 13 06:41:52 ali1: shader.c:156 Jan 13 06:41:57 wierd Jan 13 06:42:24 dtzWill: that makes out to uEnableColorMaterial? Jan 13 06:43:05 ali1: probably not, actually sorry. Jan 13 06:43:14 lol oc80z Jan 13 06:43:14 248.0M 43.3M 204.7M 17% /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/local Jan 13 06:43:14 ah Jan 13 06:43:19 what happnd?? Jan 13 06:43:27 why was it shittn the bed ;/ Jan 13 06:43:29 you love your oc80s eh Jan 13 06:43:34 my what? Jan 13 06:43:49 asdfasdf Jan 13 06:43:53 i can't change my nick Jan 13 06:44:12 dtzWill: yeah this looks all weird but i don't see him locating that anywhere Jan 13 06:44:13 dunno destinal i should have screen captured Jan 13 06:44:20 my grep call was right. Jan 13 06:44:35 oc80z: did it suddenly decide to be fine? Jan 13 06:44:42 so far.. Jan 13 06:44:48 so good + Jan 13 06:46:46 so yea Jan 13 06:46:59 the apps have tags in preware Jan 13 06:47:47 creating a widget to organize the 3 windows by popular tag, would seem logical Jan 13 06:48:12 or scriptable, Jan 13 06:48:33 oh shit finally Jan 13 06:49:03 ali1: yeah, i agree. i just added them--and for alphatest which looked missing? Jan 13 06:49:20 ali1: maybe scratch alpha test, i'll leave that out. Jan 13 06:50:36 rwhitby: actually you may be right, bt tether may use mobilehotspotd, I'm seeing bluetooth strings all over it Jan 13 06:50:47 yep its crashin Jan 13 06:50:47 rwhitby: if you do that trace I'd be interested to see it Jan 13 06:51:04 killin the socket, will try w/o novacom+proxy up Jan 13 06:51:10 er.. novaproxy Jan 13 06:52:46 dtzWill: started testgl, got one 502 ? Jan 13 06:53:37 destinal: later tonight, after I release preware Jan 13 06:54:18 woohoo Jan 13 06:54:29 ali1: yep Jan 13 06:54:39 sup alil Jan 13 06:54:54 ali1: how are you tracking those down? i was just instrumenting it with calls to a check. you got a better idea? :) Jan 13 06:54:56 rwhitby: your debug levels aren't numbers Jan 13 06:55:02 rwhitby: I think they are one of chatty verbose trace info notice warning assert require error critical alert emergency tragic Jan 13 06:55:20 destinal: cool Jan 13 06:55:57 dtzWill: i use gdb, step through a bunch of lines then call glGetError() Jan 13 06:56:13 if i get the error code, then it happen in those last few steps :P Jan 13 06:57:23 haha kk Jan 13 06:57:51 GLU has a method called gluErrorString() :( Jan 13 06:58:40 rwhitby: luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.mobilehotspot/setDebugLevel '{ "debugLevel": "chatty" }' Jan 13 06:58:40 ** Message: serviceResponse Handling: 2, { "returnValue": true } Jan 13 06:58:50 SDL has SDL_GetError() :) Jan 13 07:06:13 rwhitby: /var/log/mobilehotspot.log Jan 13 07:10:53 dtzWill: found it Jan 13 07:11:18 line 194, updateuniform1i Jan 13 07:11:46 happens when i is 1 Jan 13 07:13:08 ali1: haha we're like the same. yep that's where it is Jan 13 07:13:21 ali1: happens when i is 1? hmm Jan 13 07:13:34 it's fine when i was 0 :\ Jan 13 07:14:26 ali1: confirmed. hmm. Jan 13 07:15:21 i had 502 happen somewhere else, line 205 when i is 1 again Jan 13 07:15:54 rwhitby: luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.mobilehotspot/sysInfo {} Jan 13 07:15:54 ** Message: serviceResponse Handling: 2, { "returnValue": true, "sysInfo": { "ifbridge": "bridge12", "IPv4Address": "10.1.1.11", "IPv4Subnet": "255.255.255.0", "IPv4PoolStart": "10.1.1.200", "stateBridge": "CREATED", "stateIPv4": "REMOVED", "stateDHCPServer": "DHCP SERVER STOPPED", "stateBluetoothRadio": "OFF", "interfaces": [ ] } } Jan 13 07:16:57 ali1: when you have a uniform array-----are you *supposed* to bind each element individually? Jan 13 07:17:18 rwhitby: fyi, wow, have you run an ifconfig -a on a pre lately? Jan 13 07:17:23 ali1: as opposed to binding a reference to the array itself. maybe that's the issue? Jan 13 07:18:05 let me check the docs Jan 13 07:18:51 rwhitby: http://webos.pastebin.com/m2b06e4a4 Jan 13 07:19:30 rwhitby: not counting usbnet I have >> 15 << interfaces Jan 13 07:19:47 ncurses, readline, lua, embryo and edje in git Jan 13 07:19:59 bridge0-12 and bsl0 and eth0 Jan 13 07:21:05 oh, it's not kidding about having a DHCP pool btw Jan 13 07:21:18 root@castle:/var/home/root# ps auxw|grep -i dhcpd Jan 13 07:21:18 root 1206 0.0 0.6 4956 1636 ? Ss Jan12 0:00 /usr/bin/minidhcpd Jan 13 07:22:05 amazing what we carry around in our pockets these days... :) Jan 13 07:22:55 ali1: it's not getting bound correctly. Jan 13 07:23:42 ali1: i need to grab some food, but if yuo haven't fixed it by then i will :). they're definitely not bound (they're getting set to -1 in findattribute or w/e) Jan 13 07:24:01 dtzWill: in locate uniform? Jan 13 07:24:30 i'll probably get to bed so i'll let you do it Jan 13 07:24:37 ali1: in locateuniformindex. Jan 13 07:24:45 ali1: kk. sounds good. good work, yay progress :D Jan 13 07:24:52 heh Jan 13 07:25:52 rwhitby: I have to get to sleep to work in the morning but I'll pick up wherever you leave off Jan 13 07:26:23 ok Jan 13 07:26:28 night Jan 13 07:26:33 I'm doing Preware screenshots at the momenbt Jan 13 07:26:41 rwhitby: go, preware! Jan 13 07:26:50 :) Jan 13 07:27:25 rwhitby: 15 interfaces not counting usbnet! Jan 13 07:27:30 ok really going to bed now Jan 13 07:27:45 whoo...elementary is next Jan 13 07:28:07 aka the widget library you've all been waiting for Jan 13 07:28:18 coo Jan 13 07:28:25 l Jan 13 07:28:56 written from the ground up to be smartphone friendly Jan 13 07:30:00 xcomp: sweet Jan 13 07:30:08 ha another Pre appearance on the Good Wife tv show Jan 13 07:32:15 I thought I saw one on yesterday's Chuck Jan 13 07:33:37 jacques: ok, not so fast ... no sdl support in there yet Jan 13 07:33:38 ya that's been happening on chuck and heroes Jan 13 07:33:42 hacking time :) Jan 13 07:33:54 should be pretty straightforward Jan 13 07:44:36 anyone around? Jan 13 07:47:30 yeah Jan 13 07:49:02 u got freetether running yet on ur pre? Jan 13 07:49:58 no Jan 13 07:50:02 sorry :P Jan 13 07:50:55 damn it i cant get it to work Jan 13 08:13:32 hey, how can I use "free tether"? Jan 13 08:14:47 europe or us? Jan 13 08:16:04 europe Jan 13 08:16:22 nothing to do on the pre except from turning on bluetooth Jan 13 08:16:33 then pair your pre with your notebook Jan 13 08:16:36 connect .. done Jan 13 08:16:51 I can't use bluetooth Jan 13 08:17:00 have no stick ore else :( Jan 13 08:17:06 they're cheap Jan 13 08:17:13 I'm interested in usb-tethering Jan 13 08:17:27 don't know if that works, tried with bluetooth yesterday Jan 13 08:17:38 and wifi? Jan 13 08:18:18 did you know how? on the wifi-channel is my ip (null) :( Jan 13 08:18:33 it seems that it only works with bluetooth because they added the pan-bluetooth-profile Jan 13 08:19:01 ah ok Jan 13 08:19:23 how fast is bluetoothtethering? Jan 13 08:19:38 release candidates for preware 0.9.15 and ipkgservice 0.9.30 are in the alpha testing feed. run the preware-bootstrap script, allow alpha, and overwrite both packages. Jan 13 08:20:14 a bt adapter is like 10 euros Jan 13 08:20:17 I'll be looking for 3 success reports before I release it to the public Jan 13 08:20:22 * rwhitby bbiab Jan 13 08:20:30 rwhitby: updates since yesterday? Jan 13 08:20:58 what is a "bootstrap script"? Jan 13 08:21:01 swisstomcat1: final tweaks before release Jan 13 08:21:09 and how can irun it? Jan 13 08:21:10 will test again and report back Jan 13 08:21:18 karotte_exe: last three lines on the wiki page Jan 13 08:21:33 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware Jan 13 08:22:27 karotte_exe: a bootstrap script is basically used to automate an install and configuration of some sort Jan 13 08:22:41 have that to be insert in the terminal? Jan 13 08:22:47 yeah Jan 13 08:22:50 in this case it is being used to automate the installation and configuration of preware and the ipkgservice Jan 13 08:24:52 ok Jan 13 08:27:22 starting up preware gives me a white screen Jan 13 08:27:40 am i supposed to reboot (luna has restarted already)? Jan 13 08:28:50 hmm - I saw that too. restarting preware fixed it. Jan 13 08:29:08 any tips to help debuggin it? Jan 13 08:29:30 it's still on a white screen Jan 13 08:29:35 no, dunno why. Jan 13 08:29:58 does just restarting preware fix it? Jan 13 08:30:17 yup Jan 13 08:30:24 that's not a true fix tho :) Jan 13 08:30:32 indeed Jan 13 08:30:59 did you see the changelog screen? Jan 13 08:31:10 no Jan 13 08:31:25 hmm - maybe that screen is too long Jan 13 08:32:03 you think it was the changelog screen? Jan 13 08:32:44 yeah, I will need to bump the version and test Jan 13 08:32:50 hm, this bootstrap Jan 13 08:32:55 (after dinner) Jan 13 08:33:04 I get "permission denied" Jan 13 08:33:07 let me know if i can help Jan 13 08:33:32 thx Jan 13 08:33:53 karotte: which terminal did you use? webosquickinstall,novacom,internal? Jan 13 08:34:06 preware Jan 13 08:34:50 the on-pre terminal installed by preware? Jan 13 08:35:04 jep Jan 13 08:35:22 hmm, didn't try with that one yet Jan 13 08:35:26 i used novacom Jan 13 08:35:31 what command did you type? Jan 13 08:35:38 terminal is from internals Jan 13 08:35:45 the last three lines Jan 13 08:35:57 cd /tmp etc. Jan 13 08:36:04 jep Jan 13 08:36:05 where did it say "permission denied" Jan 13 08:36:10 at which point Jan 13 08:36:23 last command Jan 13 08:36:29 check that you put sh at the front of the third line Jan 13 08:36:35 sh preware..... Jan 13 08:36:57 or sh +x preware-bootstrap (to see the output) Jan 13 08:37:25 sh foo doesn't need foo to be executable Jan 13 08:37:32 ok, now it works (*strange*) Jan 13 08:37:54 my guess is you forgot the sh Jan 13 08:38:14 hallo metaview Jan 13 08:40:14 rwhitby-pre: I also got the white screen on first preware launch Jan 13 08:40:23 restarting preware did fix it Jan 13 08:40:27 same here Jan 13 08:41:04 could it be something to do with the splash screen hide after first use code maybe? Jan 13 08:42:12 dunno, it's weird Jan 13 08:42:15 seems like something to do with first use/changelog Jan 13 08:42:59 only thing I changed since the alpha test is that, so it must be that Jan 13 08:43:04 Updated a few days ago and it was fine Jan 13 08:44:05 also, preware help menu has .15 as the version... list of installed apps has it as .12..... I am guessing though that this is because we are running the alpha and not the release build Jan 13 08:44:43 yes Jan 13 08:45:00 it shows what's in the public feed Jan 13 08:45:29 that is what I figured Jan 13 08:45:35 I was hoping to see a changelog... Jan 13 08:45:40 no biggie though Jan 13 08:46:14 yep, syntax error somewhere in startup-assistant.js (found in emulator) Jan 13 08:46:24 yeah if you actually check the listing it shows installed version Jan 13 08:47:13 doh! missing brace Jan 13 08:48:13 haha hate that. guilty of that so many times Jan 13 08:48:28 will have an update in minutes Jan 13 08:48:53 ...and elementary is now in git Jan 13 08:49:01 xcomp: awesome Jan 13 08:49:09 that concludes a hard day's work Jan 13 08:49:21 ok, please re-run the bootstrap script and overwrite preware 0.9.15 Jan 13 08:50:49 and we'll need someone new to make sure the changelog appears Jan 13 08:50:52 xcomp: have you updated yet? Jan 13 08:50:57 holy damn the cross-compile has had a bunch of changes today. Jan 13 08:51:09 wooooo. gj everyone :D Jan 13 08:51:16 dtzWill: can you please run the preware-bootstrap script ? Jan 13 08:51:29 dtzWill: accept alpha, and overwrite preware and ipkgservice Jan 13 08:52:25 doh locked up pre, need a min Jan 13 08:52:28 will rerun too Jan 13 08:52:50 silly Java service Jan 13 08:53:29 rwhitby: the one at http://bit.ly/dDEMO ? Jan 13 08:54:02 dtzWill: http://bit.ly/preware-bootstrap Jan 13 08:54:18 (may well be the same) Jan 13 08:54:34 no change-log, but it works (no white screen) Jan 13 08:54:36 kk Jan 13 08:54:52 swisstomcat1: your cookie has 0.9.15 already, so no changelog Jan 13 08:54:53 same changelog skipped Jan 13 08:55:08 yeah, same version Jan 13 08:55:09 rwhitby: good .. thumbs up then Jan 13 08:55:10 rwhitby: something in particular you want me to check? Jan 13 08:55:24 dtzWill: make sure the changelog appears Jan 13 08:55:30 kk Jan 13 08:55:57 rwhitby: it appeared, has info about 9.15 Jan 13 08:56:01 swisstomcat1: what's in your list of feeds? Jan 13 08:56:03 dtzWill: excellent Jan 13 08:56:23 i got 9.15 Jan 13 08:56:50 optware,palm-beta,palm-catalog,palm-web,precentral,webos-internals,webos-patches Jan 13 08:56:59 good, the obsolete feeds have gone Jan 13 08:57:00 (not interested in themes) Jan 13 08:57:50 swisstomcat1: confirm that partial app limit fix is off, and goes back to off if you try and turn it on (exit and reenter pref page to check) Jan 13 08:58:25 (I've removed the script, but will remove the control next version) Jan 13 08:58:42 (since it still works on 1.3.1 for those who have not updated to 1.3.5 yet) Jan 13 08:58:47 confirmed Jan 13 09:00:24 ok, let me know if you see any other oddities, thanks. Jan 13 09:00:29 * rwhitby bbiab Jan 13 09:10:50 installed preware on the emulator too Jan 13 09:11:04 had a wget error until i disabled the theme-feeds Jan 13 09:11:07 no other problems Jan 13 09:12:28 hmm - wonder why themes had a problem on the emulator ... Jan 13 09:13:42 good question Jan 13 09:13:47 i can enable those feeds again to test Jan 13 09:14:32 oh shoot Jan 13 09:14:51 palm-install gives "failed_not_enough_install_space" on the emulator :( Jan 13 09:15:45 can't reproduce the wget error tho (re-enabled the two themes-feeds) Jan 13 09:20:29 ok Jan 13 09:22:53 any ideas about "not enough install space"? Jan 13 09:32:07 is the emulator still 1.3.1? Jan 13 09:33:04 yeah Jan 13 09:33:18 no problems until today Jan 13 09:38:06 try the 1.3.5 emulator Jan 13 09:38:15 yeah, downloading ... Jan 13 09:39:28 done Jan 13 09:39:30 let's try again Jan 13 09:41:19 all well again :) Jan 13 09:45:10 everyone around the world can upgrade to 1.3.5 now, right? Jan 13 09:45:28 think so Jan 13 09:45:34 i heard from mexico,india, etc. Jan 13 09:45:58 maybe I'll just remove the partial app limit fix toggle, and hide the add feed stuff. Jan 13 09:46:05 then do .16 Jan 13 09:46:35 would some people not upgrade for some reason? Jan 13 09:46:45 to 1.3.5.x Jan 13 09:48:55 can't think of any good reason Jan 13 10:03:30 that there isn't any good reason has never stopped people before Jan 13 10:04:45 yes, but that is then their problem if things break as a result Jan 13 10:25:45 0.9.16 coming up soon .... Jan 13 10:39:10 preware 0.9.16 now in the alpha testing feed Jan 13 10:39:22 please test that the changelog appears Jan 13 10:44:39 swisstomcat1: new version ready for testing if you're still around Jan 13 11:09:34 yeah, i'm still around Jan 13 11:20:06 swisstomcat1: if you give me the thumbs up on 0.9.16, I'll then push to the public Jan 13 11:20:38 wow, big responsibility :) Jan 13 11:21:14 well, all I've done compared to 0.9.15 is just disabled some things :-) Jan 13 11:25:03 changelog shows up Jan 13 11:26:47 check the preferences page to make sure the app limit fix is gone, and the manage feeds page to make sure the add new feed stuff is hidden Jan 13 11:27:25 check Jan 13 11:27:27 check Jan 13 11:28:09 sounds like we're good to go then Jan 13 11:28:18 thumbs up Jan 13 11:30:08 seems fine Jan 13 11:51:54 app limit was fixed by Palm? Jan 13 11:52:39 in 1.3.5 yeah Jan 13 11:54:21 good Jan 13 11:54:27 the raw limit or the weird one? Jan 13 11:55:37 they store them in the usb partition now Jan 13 11:55:52 yeah Jan 13 11:56:10 lots of space for apps Jan 13 11:56:21 since those 3d apps can get really big Jan 13 11:57:47 where does /etc/event.d/org.webosinternals.optware come from? is that a preware thing? Jan 13 12:01:36 in fat? Jan 13 12:01:47 cute, why can't android do that? Jan 13 12:05:41 it uses cryptfs Jan 13 12:28:02 müesli? funny name Jan 13 12:28:20 evening guys, i got a little issue with preware on the pre currently... i updated my phone to 1.3.5.2 yesterday. when i start preware now it tells me that the package manager service isn't running Jan 13 12:28:37 i tried reinstalling it with webos quick install and followed the hint to reboot my phone if it still fails... to no avail tho Jan 13 12:30:57 sorry guys, connection just dropped. not sure if my messages arrived, so here i go once again Jan 13 12:30:59 evening guys, i got a little issue with preware on the pre currently... i updated my phone to 1.3.5.2 yesterday. when i start preware now it tells me that the package manager service isn't running Jan 13 12:31:11 i tried reinstalling it with webos quick install and followed the hint to reboot my phone if it still fails... to no avail tho Jan 13 12:31:17 any help appreciated ;-) Jan 13 12:33:06 jettero: org.webosinternals.optware is from the Optware Boostrap package in Preware Jan 13 12:33:48 muesli: did you reinstall both preware 0.9.16 and the package manager service 0.9.30 ? Jan 13 12:33:55 rwhitby: yes Jan 13 12:33:58 muesli: did you use webos quick install 2.96 or later? Jan 13 12:34:03 2.96 it is, i think Jan 13 12:34:22 did you reboot? Jan 13 12:34:26 yes Jan 13 12:34:40 ok, can you get a command line on the Pre? Jan 13 12:34:44 gah. big fail. downloaded it from the forums, but it shows up as 2.6 in the about dialog Jan 13 12:35:00 Has to be 2.96 or later Jan 13 12:35:00 so i guess that link was outdated Jan 13 12:35:09 which forum post? Jan 13 12:35:15 rwhitby: did i mess up my filesystem when using 2.6? Jan 13 12:35:22 (did it install it to the wrong path?) Jan 13 12:35:33 muesli: it would have installed it to /var Jan 13 12:35:35 rwhitby: precentral forums Jan 13 12:35:39 are you swiss, muesli? (because swiss people like müesli) :) Jan 13 12:35:45 swisstomcat1: nope, german Jan 13 12:35:47 you should use the same program to uninstall everything first Jan 13 12:35:56 (use the Device Management menu) Jan 13 12:35:57 rwhitby: cheers mate, will do Jan 13 12:36:02 then upgrade Quick Install Jan 13 12:36:14 then reboot and then reinstall everything Jan 13 12:36:29 muesli: was it a Preware posting that pointed you to the wrong quick install? Jan 13 12:36:37 (so I can fix it if it is) Jan 13 12:36:45 wait, i'll try to find the message quickly Jan 13 12:36:45 rwhitby: what vm size do you recommend for a ubuntu server dev machine with pdk? Jan 13 12:37:28 rwhitby: interestingly tho, when starting preware on the palm, it starts and shows up as 0.9.16... also, device management only shows the package manager service as being installed Jan 13 12:37:32 I run a 20GB expandable virtual disk, but I NFS mount my /srv directory from the host. Jan 13 12:38:14 muesli: yes, the palm code will be valiantly trying to migrate it for you ... Jan 13 12:38:16 i see Jan 13 12:38:21 gotcha Jan 13 12:39:14 swisstomcat1: are you able to do a Preware 0.9.16 and Package Manager Service 0.9.30 announcement on the German forum you were on the other day? Jan 13 12:39:23 sure Jan 13 12:39:27 (and point me to the posting please?) Jan 13 12:39:37 can i take the english text as a base? Jan 13 12:40:01 rwhitby: do you have the latest webos quick install for me quickly? Jan 13 12:41:05 if there's an english announcement text? Jan 13 12:41:16 muesli: http://forums.precentral.net/canuck-software/206905-webos-quick-install-v2-96-a.html Jan 13 12:41:40 rwhitby: many thanks. will try to the find the old posting that i "fell for". just don't have it on this machine's history :/ Jan 13 12:42:06 swisstomcat1: http://forums.precentral.net/webos-apps-software/224448-preware-now-reads-palm-app-catalog-feeds.html (and tell them to follow @webosinternals on twitter) Jan 13 12:42:35 swisstomcat1: that post is best, due to the pictures. Jan 13 12:42:48 swisstomcat1: wiki page is at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware Jan 13 12:42:52 allright Jan 13 12:42:58 rwhitby: nice, working again Jan 13 12:43:05 two more questions tho :) Jan 13 12:43:30 1. are there any issues / precautions to take when keeping my palm pre with dev mode being enabled? Jan 13 12:43:43 swisstomcat1: http://forums.precentral.net/2150770-post4799.html has the changelog Jan 13 12:43:59 muesli: none, other than a small memory footprint Jan 13 12:43:59 2. i also noticed a few others services seem missing / not running now. e.g. the terminal service. is there an easy way to let preware fix those missing packages automagically? Jan 13 12:44:09 muesli: EMH Jan 13 12:44:41 rwhitby: i guess that's part of the problem. emh didnt help me after i updated my phone yesterday, so i had to doctor it Jan 13 12:45:01 that's why the services aren't running anymore (i assume) Jan 13 12:46:02 yeah, you'll probably need to reinstall them then. Jan 13 12:46:20 rwhitby: thanks again :) Jan 13 12:56:31 rwhitby: http://www.nexave.de/forum/38131-neues-preware-zeigt-nun-auch-die-applikationen-aus-dem-palm-app-katalog.html Jan 13 12:58:01 swisstomcat1: in a tweet, how would I say "In German:" ? Jan 13 12:58:07 (in german( Jan 13 12:58:12 auf deutsch Jan 13 12:58:22 Auf Deutsch: ? Jan 13 12:58:35 what do you want to write? Jan 13 12:58:45 Auf Deutsch: http://www.nexave.de/forum/38131-neues-preware-zeigt-nun-auch-die-applikationen-aus-dem-palm-app-katalog.html Jan 13 12:59:07 sounds good Jan 13 12:59:15 wait Jan 13 12:59:24 yes? Jan 13 12:59:46 in deutsch is probably better Jan 13 12:59:54 auf deutsch is swiss-german :) Jan 13 12:59:57 don't ask Jan 13 13:00:15 no, I know about swiss-german :-) Jan 13 13:00:29 so: Jan 13 13:00:31 In Deutsch: http://www.nexave.de/forum/38131-neues-preware-zeigt-nun-auch-die-applikationen-aus-dem-palm-app-katalog.html Jan 13 13:00:50 ? Jan 13 13:01:08 yup Jan 13 13:01:40 thx Jan 13 13:03:29 rwhitby: morning Jan 13 13:03:41 hey Jan 13 13:03:51 finally finished the Preware release :-) Jan 13 13:04:20 yeah read backlog. Jan 13 13:04:24 cool Jan 13 13:12:38 has anyone had any success profiling with the codesourcery toolchain? it causes the code to segfault immediately :( Jan 13 13:13:00 rwhitby: 73 users are reading the german announcement post at the moment Jan 13 13:15:56 thanks rwhitby. Seemed to upgrade fine no issues. Jan 13 13:16:23 FreeTim: excellent. that's what I like to hear Jan 13 13:17:18 i notice that some apps in the Catalog aren't in Preware, is that expected? needforspeed, glyde to name two Jan 13 13:18:09 yeah, they don't seem to be in the XML feed from Palm for some reason Jan 13 13:22:58 mornin Jan 13 13:23:28 rwhitby: how do I add the git browser to trac? Jan 13 13:23:57 dBsooner: you told me you didn't want git? Jan 13 13:24:06 at that time. ;) Jan 13 13:24:47 but i got a git setup now.. http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/webos-patches-web-portal.git Jan 13 13:26:52 dunno how to do a remote repository Jan 13 13:26:58 oh Jan 13 13:27:35 well you told me to put it on gitorious. But I guess it really doesn't matter. I just thought it would be cool to have the source browseable in the Trac. Jan 13 13:27:43 wifi hotspot won't be coming to Palm Pre, just on the Plus - ? Jan 13 13:28:30 FreeTim1: I am sure we can figure out how to engineer it on the Pre. ;) Jan 13 13:30:01 dBsooner: www/webos-patches.git is now availabke Jan 13 13:32:15 dBsooner: and the Trac browses it now Jan 13 13:32:53 cool! thanks rwhitby! Jan 13 13:33:08 right now, I know it's lame, but I still use a plain old linux script to do tethering via bluetooth Jan 13 13:33:26 Sorry, was looking for my old desk phone that has a speakerphone and mute button.. Jan 13 13:33:31 It's not too ideal though... would prefer a button press :) Jan 13 13:33:45 I have a weekly conference call I have to attend every wednesday for the next 3 months. Jan 13 13:33:58 * rwhitby bbt - night all Jan 13 13:34:00 And wednesday's are my day off, so I hav eto do it from home. And I need that phone. Jan 13 13:34:03 nite rwhitby! Jan 13 13:35:35 night rwhitby Jan 13 13:39:57 good morning Jan 13 13:42:08 hi Jan 13 13:42:11 how to handle a scene "ESC" event ... ? any one Jan 13 13:45:11 like, when someone merely closes it by swiping up, or something else? Jan 13 13:46:26 yea .. like in contacts ... when a user adds a name and swips up ... it adds to list .. Jan 13 13:46:30 like that Jan 13 13:51:29 any one can help here ? Jan 13 13:53:43 raghuk: this is more a question for #webos Jan 13 13:54:06 i can try to help you over there Jan 13 13:54:14 lots more people there for mojo development Jan 13 14:04:24 hrm Jan 13 14:04:35 why doesn't palm-package remember files that you give +x to? Jan 13 14:06:01 Anyone else having Luna crash when you flick off the terminal? Jan 13 14:09:30 sdodson: everyone, unfortunately. seems to be related to sdl apps, or at least the way we launch them. Jan 13 14:22:51 sdodson: actually it's related to changes in luna graphics Jan 13 14:23:39 terminals drawing method is subtly wrong Jan 13 14:25:42 in a benign way before but apparently the change in 135 for graphics broke our assumptions Jan 13 14:26:06 do I have to webOSinstall the new preware? Jan 13 14:26:34 do you already have preware? Jan 13 14:26:38 yeah Jan 13 14:26:46 if so you can upgrade in preware Jan 13 14:26:58 ahh k Jan 13 14:26:59 :) Jan 13 14:28:16 are there any new apps? Jan 13 14:30:46 dtzWill, destinal-wirc : Good to head it's not just me, I guess. Thanks. Jan 13 14:31:54 I'll take a look, I think I know how it's crashing Jan 13 14:33:23 it doesnt crash all the time on my pre Jan 13 14:34:32 This may be anecdotal but it seems to only crash when I have atleast one more card open. Jan 13 14:34:43 Err, something other than just terminal open. Jan 13 14:35:37 it crashes for me after I run my app and it crashes Jan 13 14:35:45 I always asummed it was cause my app crashed Jan 13 14:36:29 toaster89 sdl or mojo app? Jan 13 14:36:52 sdl Jan 13 14:36:59 scummvm in fact. Jan 13 14:37:23 actually if scummvm crashes it takes luna with it Jan 13 14:37:28 but if I close scummvm Jan 13 14:37:37 Toaster89: same happens when i was working on quake and it crashed, etc Jan 13 14:37:47 then try to close the it, that is when it crashes Jan 13 14:38:00 er Jan 13 14:38:03 yeah Jan 13 14:38:35 I think the sdl is commonly related Jan 13 14:38:40 like as soon as I swipe up it just freezes and luna resets Jan 13 14:38:43 yeah me too Jan 13 14:41:10 anyone having crashes with using terminal but no native apps/games running? Jan 13 14:43:14 or with just official native games? Jan 13 14:43:30 we don't autopause Jan 13 14:43:47 let me try running nfs and the terminal Jan 13 14:43:48 could be part of it Jan 13 14:44:59 uh oh got the too many cards open error even though I have no cards open :P Jan 13 14:45:20 reboot Jan 13 14:45:22 yeah doing that now Jan 13 14:45:33 hopefully thats all fixed in 1.4 Jan 13 14:45:39 first time its happened to me though Jan 13 14:45:39 it's a ram check Jan 13 14:45:56 yeah the memory leaks right? Jan 13 14:45:59 in luna? Jan 13 14:46:15 could be Jan 13 14:46:29 also Jan 13 14:46:56 can you try scummvm and classic? Jan 13 14:47:08 I dont have classic Jan 13 14:47:17 costs money right? Jan 13 14:47:29 demo is free Jan 13 14:47:33 trial Jan 13 14:47:55 I could try it Jan 13 14:48:05 pretty sure it works Jan 13 14:48:08 i've seen other people us it Jan 13 14:48:10 use* Jan 13 14:48:41 maybe it's all graphical brpwser plugins Jan 13 14:48:45 hmm didnt crash with need for speed open Jan 13 14:48:50 and our sdl Jan 13 14:49:07 let me try with doom Jan 13 14:49:12 oh wait.. Jan 13 14:49:17 luna just crashed :O Jan 13 14:49:40 before or after doom Jan 13 14:50:05 I swiped terminal up then closed nfs and clicked the app launcer button and it crashed Jan 13 14:50:59 oh so you haf not yet clicked doom icon, Jan 13 14:51:18 yeah Jan 13 14:51:24 ok Jan 13 14:51:39 so not just our sdl Jan 13 14:52:34 yeah Jan 13 14:54:49 how do install apps in classic? :P Jan 13 14:55:12 do you mind killing luna, running it in the foreground, causing another crash and pastebin? Jan 13 14:55:36 not sure how to do that but I can try Jan 13 14:56:11 stop LunaSysMgr; LunaSysMgr Jan 13 14:56:21 in ssh Jan 13 14:56:32 or novaterm Jan 13 14:57:22 in windows? Jan 13 14:57:34 I dont have my vm running atm Jan 13 14:58:04 get novaterm for win Jan 13 14:58:20 oh hmm can I do it with webOSinstall it has a terminal thingy? Jan 13 14:58:20 on wiki Jan 13 14:58:43 can it copy paste? Jan 13 14:59:43 yes Jan 13 14:59:48 you need to pastebin output Jan 13 15:00:06 kk Jan 13 15:00:13 I mean I can paste into it Jan 13 15:00:25 That Preware update makes Preware give me wget errors Jan 13 15:00:31 eh Jan 13 15:00:35 its rather basic Jan 13 15:00:38 gotta go Jan 13 15:00:40 I'll get novaterm Jan 13 15:00:40 you need copy Jan 13 15:00:51 from it Jan 13 15:02:56 okay I'm in Jan 13 15:03:34 I stopped luna Jan 13 15:03:37 what now? Jan 13 15:03:43 Is it possible to install preware on a o2 uk pre? Jan 13 15:04:12 just run LunaSysMgr Jan 13 15:04:24 no "start" Jan 13 15:04:41 ok it auto started up though Jan 13 15:04:46 jusy lunasys..vby itself Jan 13 15:04:54 uh Jan 13 15:04:56 no Jan 13 15:05:20 "stop LunaSysMgr" Jan 13 15:05:32 just like that Jan 13 15:05:49 says: stop: (01233/280180664) Job not changed: LunaSysMgr Jan 13 15:06:32 ok and luna should be off Jan 13 15:06:39 ok Jan 13 15:06:54 now just type: "LunaSysMgr" ? Jan 13 15:06:56 it may look on but nothing will happen when clicked Jan 13 15:07:01 yeah Jan 13 15:07:03 yep Jan 13 15:07:17 ok its doing stuff now Jan 13 15:08:04 alright Jan 13 15:08:11 now do the same thing I did before to get it to crash? Jan 13 15:08:17 yup Jan 13 15:08:33 oh sweet I can debug scummvm this way :) Jan 13 15:08:55 okay nfs is loading up Jan 13 15:09:39 got it crash again Jan 13 15:09:42 Is there a way to install preware without webos doctor? Jan 13 15:10:10 toaster Jan 13 15:10:31 pastebin last many lines Jan 13 15:10:41 doohan: if you have the sdk installed, yes Jan 13 15:10:48 I do have the sdk isntalled Jan 13 15:11:13 novacom -t open tty:// Jan 13 15:11:27 to an usb connected pre Jan 13 15:11:52 http://webos.pastebin.com/m52407ffe Jan 13 15:11:57 hope this helps :D Jan 13 15:12:31 hi, I'm back Jan 13 15:12:58 rehi Jan 13 15:13:12 swisstomcat1, hmm get's me a failed to connect Jan 13 15:13:15 nice segfault Jan 13 15:13:17 ahm. about "free tether".I have now this "bootstrap" for preware. and now Jan 13 15:13:21 Would isntalling an update disable dev mode? Jan 13 15:13:40 doohan: i your pre connected via usb? Jan 13 15:13:46 yup Jan 13 15:13:46 doohan it isn't supposed to, but you can check by typing webos20090606 Jan 13 15:14:11 karotte: what are you trying to do? Jan 13 15:14:19 hmm odd Jan 13 15:14:24 usb-tethering Jan 13 15:14:46 come you from swizerland? Jan 13 15:15:12 yeah Jan 13 15:15:38 I'm near to you :) lake of constance Jan 13 15:15:58 Hmm something is going on with linux being stupid with usb Jan 13 15:16:20 at the other side of the lake than me probably ... Jan 13 15:16:21 what ist the problem doohan? Jan 13 15:16:24 doohan, if you're on linux, try this: novaterm Jan 13 15:16:45 I'm near constanz Jan 13 15:16:47 Well gnome is trying to mount it as a disk when I plug it in Jan 13 15:17:02 strange Jan 13 15:17:06 doohan oooops. Jan 13 15:17:09 Yeah Jan 13 15:17:14 Bit of a nuasance Jan 13 15:17:17 it should only do that if you select "usb drive mode" Jan 13 15:17:23 toaster: thanks it does help, but it looks like I must have debugging output off in latest termplugin Jan 13 15:17:33 I know, but I think it's more gnome than the pre being strange Jan 13 15:17:43 doohan you may need to re-run the sdk install. Jan 13 15:17:54 I'll give that a go Jan 13 15:18:05 destinal: no problem :) Jan 13 15:19:33 hm, who suggest me to install the "bootstrapo"? (that was befor 10 hours) Jan 13 15:19:50 *bootstrap" Jan 13 15:20:15 karotte: that was for getting the latest preware installed Jan 13 15:20:26 to install homebrew stuff afterwards Jan 13 15:20:49 I know. but why? ok, now I can get alpha versions, but why? Jan 13 15:21:13 probably to test the alpha version of preware Jan 13 15:21:18 dest: terminal debug? is there now a debug version I should install and send you it's logs? Jan 13 15:21:39 brb trying kde Jan 13 15:21:49 I have it already,but don't know how to use usb or wifi Jan 13 15:21:59 morning Jan 13 15:22:04 Rick_work: ping Jan 13 15:22:05 key: will build one in a few Jan 13 15:22:10 hiya puff Jan 13 15:22:12 hi Jan 13 15:22:14 hi Jan 13 15:22:21 PuffTheMagic pong Jan 13 15:22:32 karotte: preware doesn't have anything to do with usb or wifi ... you can install homebrew programs with it Jan 13 15:22:38 Rick_work: did you see my messages in the -ops channel about a "text editor" Jan 13 15:22:40 unless freetether is on preware? Jan 13 15:23:02 swisstomcat1: its in the testing feed Jan 13 15:23:05 jes, now it is Jan 13 15:23:09 swisstomcat1: but a new version will be out in a few weeks Jan 13 15:23:10 *yes Jan 13 15:23:10 PuffTheMagic I did see that. Jan 13 15:23:28 so freetether supports usb and wifi tethering Jan 13 15:23:34 a notepad level text editor on the machine with file access would be a huge step forward. Jan 13 15:23:34 swisstomcat1: usb and bt Jan 13 15:23:37 no wifi at the moment Jan 13 15:23:42 somehow I totally saw rick using wordstar in dosbox ;) Jan 13 15:23:46 allright Jan 13 15:23:55 1.3.5.2 has now bt pan support Jan 13 15:23:58 PuffTheMagic: how can I use usb? Jan 13 15:24:05 karotte_exee: usbnet Jan 13 15:24:12 ? Jan 13 15:24:16 now it Jan 13 15:24:19 but Jan 13 15:24:22 destinal-wirc I intend to use SOMETHING on dosbox once I figure out how to edit KEYBINDINGS on dosbox, because right now, it ignores orange-key and sym-key Jan 13 15:24:28 Rick_work: u dont care about any formatting like font size/bold/italics... spellchecking (possibly inline) Jan 13 15:24:54 it didn't works with "mytether". so why should it di with free tether Jan 13 15:25:13 PuffTheMagic I'll deal with that crap later. But a straight text-editor would be huge. At a minimum it lets us edit json files, ini files etc etc ON THE PHONE without screwing with terminal Jan 13 15:25:26 mytether is evil Jan 13 15:25:34 I know Jan 13 15:25:51 mytether is evil Jan 13 15:25:53 Rick_work: isnt that a security risk if I allow any file to be editied Jan 13 15:25:59 and not just stuff on /media/internal Jan 13 15:26:00 I think it was made by sprint tbh Jan 13 15:26:13 karotte_exee when tethering, other than via wifi, you have to enable usbnet on the desktop and on the phone. Jan 13 15:26:15 Rick_work: so syntax hilighting would be needed :D Jan 13 15:26:22 puff: in a native app? no Jan 13 15:26:33 PuffTheMagic I'm not suggesting that you enable file access outside /media/internal Jan 13 15:26:34 no security risk Jan 13 15:26:47 PuffTheMagic you can absolutely use terminal to mv files as needed. Jan 13 15:26:52 PuffTheMagic: ok, first step! connect to pc and just charge. right? Jan 13 15:27:06 but no terminal editor is reasonably touch-screen responsive to drags and taps. Jan 13 15:27:12 terminal is a security risk? Jan 13 15:27:24 karotte_exee: if you are on windows i cant/wont help you get a usbnet driver working, there shoudl be plenty of tutorials that explain that Jan 13 15:27:40 karotte_exee what os are you on, I'll help you Jan 13 15:27:47 I have the drive Jan 13 15:27:54 and know how to install Jan 13 15:28:42 is it normal that I haven't a ip by usb? Jan 13 15:29:17 Rick_work: I too would really, really like a good text editor (bonus points for syntax highlighting and remote file editing (ftp or SFTP) Jan 13 15:29:40 Rick_work: i think i will use a text editor as my first Evas app for the pre so that I can learn on that before i start porting wIRC Jan 13 15:30:14 why are you porting wIRC? Jan 13 15:30:28 that would be good PuffTheMagic pay particular attention to highlighting text and using standard mojo-style menu for edit/cut/copy/paste please..... Jan 13 15:30:30 CoolMatty: i will get a Trac up for the editor so that you guys can start putting ideas on it Jan 13 15:30:54 Why the editor before terminal PuffTheMagic ??? Jan 13 15:30:57 Rick_work: i think i can "emulate" most of the mojo-style stuff Jan 13 15:31:16 Rick_work: terminal alredy works and is not my code, all I need to do to that is "imporove it" Jan 13 15:31:20 which i still will be doing Jan 13 15:31:23 PuffTheMagic I'm sure you can. I'm just pointing out the one place that I think that's very nessesary. Jan 13 15:31:27 but its not a "from scratch" thing Jan 13 15:31:39 PuffTheMagic Ok, thanks. Jan 13 15:31:53 not just the menu though Jan 13 15:31:59 make sure it works with the shift select too Jan 13 15:32:09 the editor is from scrach (since I am gonna have it support Latex) and have buttons to build pdfs :D Jan 13 15:32:16 might even support bibtex Jan 13 15:32:16 :D Jan 13 15:33:04 karotte_exee I did not understand your question about IP addresses. Jan 13 15:33:06 frankly the most I'd use it for is making config edits on another server, if possible Jan 13 15:33:45 karotte_exee see pm Jan 13 15:35:05 The problem was that novacomd wasn't running Jan 13 15:35:19 doohan that'll do it. Jan 13 15:35:25 So what's next? Jan 13 15:35:30 doohan, novaterm Jan 13 15:35:33 Yup Jan 13 15:35:43 cd /tmp Jan 13 15:35:55 wget http://bit.ly/preware-bootstrap Jan 13 15:35:55 sh preware-bootstrap Jan 13 15:36:21 simple dimple and you're done. Jan 13 15:36:24 you guys need to think of a cool name of this editor Jan 13 15:36:29 Do I want to include alpha stuff? Jan 13 15:36:36 Rick-home, that is simple thanks :) Jan 13 15:36:49 doohan do you want to? ((( I would ))) Jan 13 15:37:10 ok dokey Jan 13 15:37:14 PuffTheMagic: Preditor Jan 13 15:37:18 sounds like predator! Jan 13 15:37:21 :) Jan 13 15:37:24 and everyone liked predator! Jan 13 15:37:29 Woo setup complete Jan 13 15:39:07 PuffTheMagic Magic-Edit, Evas-ive edit, Puffy Edit Jan 13 15:40:27 we could start a series: Puffy Term, Puffy Edit, Puffy PDF, Puffy Backup -- it could be like a BRAND.... Jan 13 15:40:33 Wow, that's a lot of available pacakges Jan 13 15:40:36 Rick_work: am by the regiister usb (free tether) say the program that I haven't a ip (null) Jan 13 15:40:49 Rick_work: an office suit Jan 13 15:40:54 WebOs internals PDK? Jan 13 15:40:56 i can make a spreadsheet tool Jan 13 15:41:08 Puffy Suite. Jan 13 15:41:15 Puffy Office 2010! Jan 13 15:41:20 lol Jan 13 15:41:22 karotte_exee please see private message -- Jan 13 15:41:40 I still like preditor though >.> Jan 13 15:43:06 Preditor does sound cool Jan 13 15:43:42 makes me think of a pedofile Jan 13 15:43:53 xcomp: how come raster is never in #e Jan 13 15:45:28 PuffTheMagic: he's just in a very different timezone Jan 13 15:45:48 you probably have a better chance of catching him in #edevelop when he signs on Jan 13 15:47:14 How come stuff like asphalt 5 is in preware? Jan 13 15:47:22 I take it in the uk that just won't work? Jan 13 15:47:41 Or is there a way to pay for it? Jan 13 15:51:23 doohan: it shows up but you can't install it Jan 13 15:52:08 swisstomcat1, that's fair enough :) Jan 13 15:52:13 I'm getting my doom on just now Jan 13 15:52:21 join #edevelop Jan 13 15:52:23 opp Jan 13 15:52:32 xcomp: what tz is he in? Jan 13 15:52:32 hehe Jan 13 15:53:53 PuffTheMagic: unless he has changed his zip code recently, I believe JP Jan 13 15:53:53 doh it failed to install Jan 13 15:54:11 connection timed out Jan 13 15:54:25 * doohan tries again Jan 13 15:55:49 because preware is now reading the Palm open feeds. Jan 13 15:56:06 and yes, it won't work. :-) unless you have re-jiggered your phone to have a US based palm profile Jan 13 15:56:17 which --- can ---- be done. PM rwhitby when he gets up Jan 13 15:56:34 rick_work: I'm bak Jan 13 15:56:38 *back Jan 13 15:56:48 Doom runs really well Jan 13 15:57:38 quake too Jan 13 15:57:40 supertux too Jan 13 15:57:47 Bout to try em all :) Jan 13 15:58:07 rick_work: can I now conect? Jan 13 15:59:18 xcomp: so he is on rod's schedule then for the most part Jan 13 15:59:40 xcomp: i wanted to ping him about elementary and find out the status of some of the widgets he has on his todo list Jan 13 15:59:42 karotte_exe see private again Jan 13 15:59:55 like the carousel selector Jan 13 15:59:56 :D Jan 13 16:00:31 don't know how to open a privat channel. coul you send my a dm? Jan 13 16:00:48 done Jan 13 16:01:35 there is nothing :( Jan 13 16:01:59 karotte_exe in freether ensure that usbnet and nat are enabled, and if so, plug in the pre. Jan 13 16:02:01 So Jan 13 16:02:18 your desktop should then notice a new device, and go through installing the usbnet drivers. Jan 13 16:02:22 Would it ever be possible to have Preware on palm's open installer rss feed? Jan 13 16:02:29 or rather their webchannel whatever Jan 13 16:02:32 once that is done, you should have an IP address on the USB NET Jan 13 16:02:56 psykoz: I'm not sure that's a good idea Jan 13 16:03:32 psykoz: Not everyone needs to have a Ferrarri Jan 13 16:04:02 Why isn't that a good idea? It gets Preware in an installable state over the web rather than having to deal with quickinstall, java, connecting your phone, devmode, etc.. Jan 13 16:04:09 (if that's possible) Jan 13 16:04:54 psykoz: because then you'd have random clueless teenagers and grandmas installing patches and then complaining to palm because they updated and their phone broke Jan 13 16:04:59 Quake runs pretty damn good Jan 13 16:05:39 doohan, yes it does. Jan 13 16:05:50 xcomp, it's likely those same teenboppers and grandmas won't even be looking for that app or what it does, unless palm eventually adds a "beta" section in the app catalog (which I don't see why they would do that?) Jan 13 16:05:50 Going to take a bit to get used to the controls though Jan 13 16:05:56 psykoz we can get a LIMITED version of preware into the app cat. Jan 13 16:06:06 but not a FULL version. Jan 13 16:06:13 rick_work, limited in what way (?) Jan 13 16:06:29 no way to install hombrew without installing the full version. Jan 13 16:06:51 have to strip out some of the things it doesn't because they don't conform to Palm's sdk or anything? Jan 13 16:07:00 s/doesn't/does/ Jan 13 16:07:00 psykoz meant: have to strip out some of the things it does because they don't conform to Palm's sdk or anything? Jan 13 16:07:28 there is also that little problem Jan 13 16:08:02 apps in palm's catalog are "palm sanctioned" and stuff that uses undocumented apis is generally rejected Jan 13 16:08:13 see: NaNPlayer Jan 13 16:08:13 exactly Jan 13 16:08:47 Nod Jan 13 16:08:59 it's too bad we never got to see that app Jan 13 16:09:09 the absolutely minimum install process for preware is Jan 13 16:09:26 a) Install SDK b) Run novaterm c) type 3 lines. Jan 13 16:09:52 if you can't do that, or can't run webos-quick-install then you can't get the full preware Jan 13 16:10:09 Palm security sees this as the way that "normal people" will never screw with their phones like we do. Jan 13 16:10:21 it's a hoop to jump through that keeps us in good standing with Palm. Jan 13 16:10:29 too bad you didn't see the app Jan 13 16:10:32 Palm loves us. We don't want to screw that up. Jan 13 16:10:33 Rick_work: and furthermore we have no choice :P Jan 13 16:10:34 <.< Jan 13 16:10:37 >.> Jan 13 16:10:45 Rick_work: that is, we don't build the device Jan 13 16:10:50 That install process seems like a decent initial clue filter Jan 13 16:11:30 destinal we do too. We could violate palm's IP, we could include novacom drivers in an installer, and make 3 self-running installers that didn't require the doctor or the sdk. But we will not do that. Because we WANT palm to continue to love us. Jan 13 16:11:51 Rick_work: oh, we could include novacom drivers without violating any IP Jan 13 16:11:54 just our own Jan 13 16:12:19 destinal ok, we could if we had them. i didn't think we HAD 3rd party windows drivers only linux. Jan 13 16:12:47 well they'd work under windows with some cygwin libs Jan 13 16:12:58 it's been tested Jan 13 16:13:23 destinal so we would have to have a huge-freaking installer with all that . :-) Oh joy. Jan 13 16:13:28 we could totally package up a magic native installer for all platforms Jan 13 16:13:33 and then Brian H would really hate us. which is a bad idea. Jan 13 16:13:43 and no it's small, there's a group that makes openssh with cygwin Jan 13 16:13:50 just a few libs Jan 13 16:13:55 destinal interesting. Jan 13 16:14:03 Rick_work: I don't think he'd hate us Jan 13 16:14:06 why do you think that? Jan 13 16:14:15 the 'bright line" is dev mode Jan 13 16:14:41 destinal Brian's exact words are "I don't really mind that you guys are doing this because normal people will never get to the stuff you're doing and if geeks break their phones that's ok, they can fix them. " Jan 13 16:14:56 well, still, normal people will never enable dev mode Jan 13 16:15:25 heheheh I heard someone the other day equate dev mode with jailbreaking. Jan 13 16:15:37 actually in a way it's the same thing as iphone jailbreaking, it can be really easy but that first step scares away 50 - 80% Jan 13 16:15:38 and that palm couldn't really WANT you to do that. Jan 13 16:15:44 unless they really like contra Jan 13 16:16:11 oh no it says dev Jan 13 16:16:12 scary Jan 13 16:16:21 I pointed out that palm made it easier to do, and they said that that was not the point. :-) Jan 13 16:16:58 Rick_work: lol, yeah, but the fact that we get mentioned warmly in keynote speeches probably helps your point :) Jan 13 16:17:26 ya think? Jan 13 16:18:27 Palm is very much not apple. They don't seem to enjoy trying to beat down their strongest platform advocates / enthusiasts. instead, they think what we're doing to push the limits of the platform is cool Jan 13 16:19:31 has anyone looked at the bluetooth tethering in 1.3.5.2 yet? Jan 13 16:19:47 Rick_work: Rod was a little bit Jan 13 16:19:54 bbiab Jan 13 16:19:58 Rick_work: I'm playing more with mobilehotspotd which may be the same thing Jan 13 16:20:19 Apple couldn't care less about their customers, all they want is their money Jan 13 16:20:45 Rick_work: do an ifconfig -a on a 1.3.5+ pre sometime Jan 13 16:20:47 Do you think Palm would be this open if they were a stronger market player? Jan 13 16:20:56 I think that has a lot to do with the situation. Jan 13 16:21:12 I have 15 network interfaces (13 bridges, eth0 / wifi, and one other) not counting usbnet Jan 13 16:21:30 is there an ssh client in preware? Jan 13 16:21:55 use terminal Jan 13 16:23:06 so far i'm happy with the palm catalog.. i haven;t had to pay for NFSU :) Jan 13 16:23:21 i downladed it thru app catalog Jan 13 16:23:29 destinal: wtf, why so many interfaces Jan 13 16:23:34 oh Jan 13 16:23:35 nm Jan 13 16:23:36 PuffTheMagic: mobilehotspotd Jan 13 16:23:38 i read up Jan 13 16:23:54 destinal: take some notes so i can update freeTether Jan 13 16:23:56 your phone wants to be a hotspot, you are oppressing it. Jan 13 16:23:59 :) Jan 13 16:24:17 destinal: or can we just "unhide" the app Jan 13 16:24:19 and call it a day Jan 13 16:24:48 destinal mobilehotspotd has to be what palm is using for the pre+ for verison, and they already said verison pres would come out with 1.3.5 so, that HAS to be the key Jan 13 16:25:04 Rick_work: sure Jan 13 16:25:15 ohhh Jan 13 16:25:17 It has some interesting service methods Jan 13 16:25:20 mobilehotspotd Jan 13 16:25:24 a service not a gui Jan 13 16:25:28 PuffTheMagic: C service Jan 13 16:26:21 luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.mobilehotspot/sysInfo {} Jan 13 16:26:56 destinal: i must resisit playing with that for now Jan 13 16:27:03 it'll tell you all about its dhcp pool Jan 13 16:27:05 # ps auxw|grep -i dhcpd Jan 13 16:27:05 root 1206 0.0 0.5 4956 1424 ? Ss Jan12 0:00 /usr/bin/minidhcpd Jan 13 16:27:13 which I'm sure that handles the heavy lifting for Jan 13 16:28:40 also a native service Jan 13 16:28:40 # dbus-util --list|grep -i dhcp Jan 13 16:28:40 :1.17 (busname=com.palm.dhcp pid=1206 procname=/usr/bin/minidhcpd) Jan 13 16:36:25 en0x, I mean an ssh client going from pre to another system Jan 13 16:36:55 doohan if you have terminal, you can use it to ssh from the pre to another system. Jan 13 16:37:19 Hmm Jan 13 16:37:32 I just get -sh: ssh:not found Jan 13 16:37:59 woohooo Jan 13 16:39:01 doohan in preware install just install ssh Jan 13 16:39:08 under optware Jan 13 16:41:20 cheers Rick-home Jan 13 16:41:21 err Jan 13 16:41:24 Rick_work, :) Jan 13 16:44:27 PuffTheMagic: rwhitby: sysInfo clientList setDebugLevel interfaceAdd interfaceRemove Jan 13 16:45:45 destinal: why do we need to add interfaces? Jan 13 16:46:11 Aren't there ipkg commands for installing removing packages (and specifically patches) from the command line? Jan 13 16:46:12 PuffTheMagic: I think by interfaces it means something different than you normally think of Jan 13 16:46:33 { "ifbridge": "bridge12", "IPv4Address": "10.1.1.11", "IPv4Subnet": "255.255.255.0", "IPv4PoolStart": "10.1.1.200", "stateBridge": "CREATED", "stateIPv4": "REMOVED", "stateDHCPServer": "DHCP SERVER STOPPED", "stateBluetoothRadio": "OFF", "interfaces": [ ] } Jan 13 16:46:39 notice interfaces is a null set thee Jan 13 16:46:41 there Jan 13 16:46:44 we probably need some Jan 13 16:46:44 Preware is having some trouble removing a patch, I wanted to poke at the prerm script. Just having trouble taking the covers off. Jan 13 16:48:36 PuffTheMagic: /var/log/mobilehotspot.log Jan 13 16:48:56 interesting Jan 13 16:48:57 MobileHotSpot_LunaMethod_InterfaceRemove() called with JSON {}. Jan 13 16:48:57 MobileHotSpot_LunaMethod_InterfaceRemove() bridge interface <00021290>. Jan 13 16:49:59 destinal: ahh i get it Jan 13 16:50:03 destinal: its not true AP Jan 13 16:50:09 destinal: its more like multiple ad-hoc Jan 13 16:50:35 note it also calls to palm://com.palm.wifi/createAP Jan 13 16:50:52 that probably is just a "meta state" Jan 13 16:51:03 idk Jan 13 16:51:10 i havent really done much with AP Jan 13 16:51:17 we'll know more when we see the verison ap app Jan 13 16:51:22 but i only remember needing 1 interface for that Jan 13 16:51:24 in a couple of weeks. Jan 13 16:51:32 we can wait. Jan 13 16:51:40 Rick_work: i have a feeling free tether will work with that before then :D Jan 13 16:51:51 I love the debug level options Jan 13 16:51:57 PuffTheMagic even you have only 168 hours in a week. Jan 13 16:52:33 chatty verbose trace info notice warning assert require error critical alert emergency tragic Jan 13 16:52:43 tragic Jan 13 16:52:47 :) Jan 13 16:55:51 I don't notice a difference with luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.mobilehotspot/setDebugLevel '{ "debugLevel": "chatty" }' Jan 13 16:55:51 though Jan 13 16:58:09 I can add and remove but I probably need to supply useful parameters: Jan 13 16:58:09 MobileHotSpot_LunaMethod_InterfaceRemove() bridge interface <00021290>. Jan 13 16:58:09 MobileHotSpot_LunaMethod_InterfaceAdd() bridge interface <00021290>. Jan 13 16:58:21 since I don't think it's doing anything Jan 13 17:03:40 I'll bet a nickle the code we need is going to be in the 1.4 beta sdk. Jan 13 17:07:08 he egaudet_work!!!!! Jan 13 17:07:10 GOODNEWS! Jan 13 17:10:51 looks like WebOSQuickInstall still doesn't support proxies :( Jan 13 17:13:51 i really really need to get precom-progs built with my mingw toolchain so that we dont need the metadoctor jar for WOQI and other stuff Jan 13 17:13:59 rwhitby: ping Jan 13 17:17:57 ... Jan 13 17:18:03 dBsooner: ? Jan 13 17:18:18 PuffTheMagic: you really think he is awake at 3am? Jan 13 17:18:29 egaudet_work: look at the last patch submitted Jan 13 17:18:32 using the new form.. Jan 13 17:18:42 under "New Submissions" Jan 13 17:18:44 what's the site agian? Jan 13 17:18:48 omg Jan 13 17:18:51 lol Jan 13 17:18:53 You are NOT cool Jan 13 17:19:00 it's in the subject Jan 13 17:19:02 I'm at work I'm forgetful Jan 13 17:19:03 of the channel Jan 13 17:19:13 oh yea i see :doh: Jan 13 17:19:16 http://webos-patches.dbsooner.com/admin/ Jan 13 17:20:25 oh nice! Jan 13 17:20:56 Yeah.. you think that will be a good one for you? :) Jan 13 17:21:13 I'm busy getting the functions all in place before I start accepting these Jan 13 17:21:17 so you might just grab the patch file Jan 13 17:21:38 http://git.webos-internals.org/trac/webos-patches/ Jan 13 17:22:18 yea it will be good to get all my contacts to my local machine easily Jan 13 17:22:22 dBsooner: no i dont, but he scans the backlog and now my request is higher in queue then other people Jan 13 17:22:22 :D Jan 13 17:22:42 PuffTheMagic: he ignores me when I do those pings. ;) Jan 13 17:22:47 Maybe it's because I always ping him? Jan 13 17:23:13 i get ignored some times too Jan 13 17:23:42 dBsooner: the more important patch though is NAMED pages Jan 13 17:23:59 Im getting there Jan 13 17:24:12 I am busy getting the accept forms finished Jan 13 17:24:21 so I can add the git stuff Jan 13 17:24:27 And TABS... lmorchard you are awesome Jan 13 17:24:42 yeah.. speaking of that one.. Jan 13 17:24:49 lmorchard: what happens if a user has say.. 10 pages? Jan 13 17:24:52 dBsooner: yea I'll help resubmit the pre-newsite patches tonight maybe Jan 13 17:25:01 I have done a couple Jan 13 17:25:03 dBsooner: The 5th tab turns into '...' and throws up a submenu Jan 13 17:25:10 it throws up? Jan 13 17:25:13 hehehehe Jan 13 17:25:25 s/throws up/spawns/ Jan 13 17:25:25 Yeah because you have so many tabs. HOOOWARRRK Jan 13 17:25:39 it says.. "Get rid of some damn tabs" Jan 13 17:25:46 egaudet_work: that would be a big help. Jan 13 17:25:56 But I've not had much luck combining names and tabs though, so I haven't bothered with it so much Jan 13 17:26:18 though I should resubmit my named pages patch, since it's had 5 small revisions since I submitted it to preware Jan 13 17:26:19 egaudet_work: if you decide to do it, let me know so I can remind you to pay attention to when a submission has email set to private.. Jan 13 17:26:38 egaudet_work: because you have to scroll down into the array list in the email to copy their email and make sure you tick the keep private box Jan 13 17:26:40 lmorchard: maybe look into icon'd tabs so a visual indicator of which tab rather than name Jan 13 17:27:19 Hmm, that could be interesting... assign icons to tabs, if you could pick from a useful enough set Jan 13 17:28:06 yea, similar to the app cat icons on the bottom for seaching. If there was a good enough general set of categories, and then less importantly maybe far in the future a way to add your own Jan 13 17:28:36 Might have to work on a 3rd patch this weekend... Jan 13 17:29:55 :D Jan 13 17:29:57 The real fun is that the more intricate the patches get, the more they conflict with others Jan 13 17:30:30 but I've got it working with all the patches I care about so, meh Jan 13 17:30:33 try to offload into created files/functions as much as possible Jan 13 17:30:48 Mostly it's the integration points, eg. adding a menu item or a command menu handler Jan 13 17:31:04 yea those are a pain Jan 13 17:31:17 not a whole lot you can do about it either Jan 13 17:31:55 Yeah, I found a few tricks or at least different spots to bury my stuff that other patches weren't using Jan 13 17:32:05 but there are only so many spots to do that Jan 13 17:32:05 might be interesting someday to have a way to specify conflicts for patches in Preware Jan 13 17:32:08 (if that hadn't already been thought of) Jan 13 17:38:32 yea package conflicts is something that I think ipkg already handles too Jan 13 17:39:02 now the last app-launcher patch that will be cool is page MOVING Jan 13 17:42:12 Is it possible to run your own java code on the pre? Jan 13 17:42:25 yes Jan 13 17:42:27 in a service Jan 13 17:42:34 Possible to do it outwith a service? Jan 13 17:42:49 not that i know Jan 13 17:42:57 check with #webos-internals Jan 13 17:43:01 ok Jan 13 17:43:02 dBsooner: do you know if auto app launcher popup patch pops up when there are apps that are carded/minimized? Jan 13 17:43:12 no clue Jan 13 17:43:14 :) Jan 13 17:43:22 it says it's not supposed to Jan 13 17:43:31 swisstomcat1, this is #webos-internals :P Jan 13 17:43:37 yeah, i got confused Jan 13 17:43:40 :) Jan 13 17:43:42 for a minute Jan 13 17:43:53 since i'm in both channels Jan 13 17:45:00 :) Jan 13 17:45:13 At the moment the only problem I'm having is with a path Jan 13 17:45:40 It's having a spot of bother finding libhyprt.so Jan 13 17:46:16 But I know where that file is hiding Jan 13 17:47:38 which git repo contains the /etc/event.d/org.webosinternals.optware startup script? I can't find it Jan 13 17:48:33 oh, rwhitby partially answered that at 7:40ish Jan 13 17:48:39 Does anyone know if you can submit a file to the "Upload File" form on the Wiki remotely? Jan 13 17:48:56 where is the Optware bootstrap packted/tracked? Jan 13 17:49:20 In other words, I want to be able to send a screenshot to the wiki and have it return to me the URL for the file. Jan 13 17:49:22 "org.webosinternals.optware is from the Optware Boostrap package in Preware" ... Jan 13 17:50:33 seems like it aught to be in http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/bootstrap/ , but I don't see it Jan 13 17:50:35 doohan:explain the problem Jan 13 17:51:16 dBsooner: you mean programatically? Jan 13 17:51:24 egaudet_work: Yes Jan 13 17:51:28 no idea Jan 13 17:51:29 :P Jan 13 17:51:31 Well if you try to run /usr/lib/jvm/java-1.5-palm/bin/java it says it can't find that file Jan 13 17:51:40 egaudet_work: Right now I just store the image in the sql database Jan 13 17:51:45 then I have to manually download it Jan 13 17:51:51 and upload it to the wiki via the form Jan 13 17:51:52 but, there is a java process running Jan 13 17:52:05 then during the 'accept it' process, paste the URL in the form Jan 13 17:53:41 jettero: not in gitorious Jan 13 17:54:12 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=tree;f=optware/bootstrap/upstart;h=d9c764bb587a847a7739d19ed281700fea415fec;hb=HEAD Jan 13 17:55:04 doohan: why do you want to start another java process? Jan 13 17:55:09 egaudet_work: maybe rwhitby would just give me a special ftp login chrooted to /wwwroot/webos-patches/images/ Jan 13 17:55:11 rather than create a thread in the existing one? Jan 13 17:55:13 and I can upload them there. Jan 13 17:55:27 egaudet_work: oh, thanks Jan 13 17:55:54 Sometimes it's nice to have a process rather than a thread Jan 13 17:56:53 there's limited resources on the Pre Jan 13 17:57:40 but if you really needed to start anew java process -Djava.library.path=:: Jan 13 17:58:07 egaudet, that's what I'm trying just now Jan 13 17:58:34 check the existing running process too Jan 13 17:58:38 for other args they use Jan 13 18:00:22 Already doing that :) Jan 13 18:00:51 egaudet_work: do you know who I'd contact to submit a patch to that file/repo? Jan 13 18:01:20 talk to rwhitby Jan 13 18:01:33 what are you interested in adding? Jan 13 18:01:40 A line to see if /opt is already mounted Jan 13 18:01:54 I made my own loopback filesystem of /opt before it started existing in cryptfs Jan 13 18:01:57 ahh yes good idea (same for pdk) Jan 13 18:02:12 for backup reasons, I find it convenient to leave it uncrypted. And regardless, I don't think my sanity check line will cause any problems Jan 13 18:02:57 jettero: it can only help IMO, we dont' want accidental multiple mounts, then one umount leaves it mounted Jan 13 18:03:18 well, that and the overmount makes it appear blank Jan 13 18:03:28 it was causing me trouble (work related) for some other scripts Jan 13 18:05:01 yea and I can already see this happening for instance: install optware, partial erase, install optware Jan 13 18:05:47 yeah, my check is just: if [ -d /opt/bin ]; then echo "opt already mounted"; return 0; fi Jan 13 18:06:05 I patched it on my git clone, but I can't push, duh... Jan 13 18:06:18 I was considering posting to github, but I think I'll wait for a hilight from rwhitby Jan 13 18:06:57 I don't think -d /opt/bin is a very robust check, for the record, but it does do what I expect Jan 13 18:07:28 jettero: well it should probably be something like "mount |grep /opt" Jan 13 18:09:03 cat /proc/mounts | grep opt Jan 13 18:09:15 PuffTheMagic: what's the difference? Jan 13 18:09:39 egaudet_work: mount uses mtab (last I knew) which could get out of sync Jan 13 18:09:46 /proc/mounts is always accurate Jan 13 18:09:47 oh ok Jan 13 18:10:28 so cat /proc/mounts | awk '{print $1}' |grep ^/opt$ Jan 13 18:11:07 awk is overkill isnt it? Jan 13 18:11:34 whats the objective here? Jan 13 18:11:40 cat| is considered wasteful in some circles... Jan 13 18:12:02 awk '{print $1}' < /proc/mounts | grep ^/opt$ Jan 13 18:12:10 And I also think the upstart script is backwards with the /var/opt mount Jan 13 18:12:16 there's whole essays on "useless use of cat", but I like the left to right Jan 13 18:12:29 PuffTheMagic: because /opt is mounted to /var/opt mounted to /media/cryptofs/apps/opt Jan 13 18:12:51 egaudet_work: idk whats really going on Jan 13 18:13:01 what is the objective? Jan 13 18:13:08 not to mount when already mounted Jan 13 18:13:30 jettero: yea that's better (< vs. cat) Jan 13 18:13:42 im definitely a cat abuser :P Jan 13 18:14:06 we all are sometimes Jan 13 18:14:19 cat /etc/hosts | grep foo Jan 13 18:14:21 muahaha Jan 13 18:14:25 hi,where IPKG Log located on the filesystem? Jan 13 18:14:25 i used to do that all the time Jan 13 18:14:37 yeah, I use grep pat file... Jan 13 18:14:46 but when you're doing a long pipe, cat | | | | is just more readable Jan 13 18:15:27 jacques: for pdk too, isn't the mount /var/local /media/cryptofs/apps/local backwards? Jan 13 18:16:03 hawiwo: it's stdout, you tap "show ipkg log" when error comes up Jan 13 18:16:05 no file Jan 13 18:16:22 thanks Jan 13 18:16:47 sed -e '/ \/opt /!d' /proc/mounts Jan 13 18:17:48 * PuffTheMagic hates awk Jan 13 18:17:56 show-sh: show: not found Jan 13 18:19:44 egaudet_work: hmm? where is "mount /var/local /media/cryptofs/apps/local" ? Jan 13 18:20:25 I have a patch half installed. Preware thinks it is installed, but not. Get "Unreversed patch detected!" in IPKG log when I try to remove. How can I recover? Jan 13 18:20:48 cut -d' ' -f 2 /proc/ounts Jan 13 18:20:56 jacques: in upstart Jan 13 18:21:02 I thought it should be the other way around Jan 13 18:21:09 to use the bigger /media for storage Jan 13 18:21:11 I used awk in the latest incarnation Jan 13 18:21:37 yea, we can just list the million ways to skin this cat :P Jan 13 18:21:54 http://is.gd/6cIom <-- Jan 13 18:22:12 I went ahead and posted the clone on github... I can take it down later. I don't think it hurts anything Jan 13 18:22:15 egaudet_work: if that mount command is in upstart, then I agree it seems backwards. the intent (as I understood it, unless it's changed) is to bind mount /var/local to /usr/local Jan 13 18:22:29 jacques: yea that's first Jan 13 18:22:35 and /var/local would have symlinks to libs in /media/cryptofs/apps/local Jan 13 18:22:45 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=blob;f=linux/pdk/upstart/org.webosinternals.pdk;h=f6985738379506a8573f216e271ce351d6f85fb7;hb=f2658470643798e716d2ea3d0ac6d20de42a4823 Jan 13 18:23:08 I think mounting /media/cryptofs/apps/local to /var/local is fine Jan 13 18:23:25 the mount command is just backwards Jan 13 18:24:25 I don't understand why we would do that (mounting /media/cryptofs/apps/local to /var/local) as /media/cryptofs/apps/local does not support symlinks, which we need Jan 13 18:24:45 too bad it's fat and not ntfs or ext3 or something Jan 13 18:24:48 pfft fat Jan 13 18:24:54 the whole point of using /var/local was so we could symlink Jan 13 18:25:08 otherwise we could just bind mount cryptofs to /usr/local Jan 13 18:26:19 oh right Jan 13 18:26:22 now i remember Jan 13 18:26:44 sym links on /var and actual libs on /media Jan 13 18:26:53 yep, that's my recollection Jan 13 18:27:04 jacques: egaudet_work: I love how clean this is shaping up to be :P Jan 13 18:27:16 and simple Jan 13 18:27:39 Jan 13 18:27:49 lol Jan 13 18:28:25 as simple as possible - but no simpler. Jan 13 18:28:33 destinal: it's all media's fat fault Jan 13 18:28:55 * Mousey prefer's ext3 Jan 13 18:29:15 egaudet_work: are the optware preware stuff in the build.git repo too? Jan 13 18:29:25 can the oreo effect cause major damage? Jan 13 18:29:37 only if you dip it in milk Jan 13 18:29:45 :P Jan 13 18:29:45 can we layer permissions on top of vfat for our /usr/local or is that just equally complicated and ugly Jan 13 18:29:48 PuffTheMagic: yea in build.git Jan 13 18:30:00 s/permissions/permissions and special files/ Jan 13 18:30:00 destinal meant: can we layer permissions and special files on top of vfat for our /usr/local or is that just equally complicated and ugly Jan 13 18:30:21 egaudet_work: are they straight from optware or are they modified in any way? Jan 13 18:30:29 destinal: how would that be accomplished? Jan 13 18:30:43 PuffTheMagic: wait the build.git builds the packages from the optware stuff Jan 13 18:31:00 the build.git has the optware packaging stuff not the optware binaries/code Jan 13 18:31:14 so not modified Jan 13 18:31:16 i want to add a file to the bash package Jan 13 18:31:22 that adds a file to /etc/profile.d Jan 13 18:31:33 i guess i will look at how dropbear works Jan 13 18:31:44 jacques: nevermind, it would probably be umsdos or something like that and I somehow doubt that's in palm's kernel. Jan 13 18:32:18 plus that approach has its own issues Jan 13 18:33:13 go on with your bindmount symlinks Jan 13 18:33:16 :) Jan 13 18:35:33 too bad unionfs et al never became widely accepted - tho it's probably because there are fundamental issues with implementation Jan 13 18:36:38 jacques: actually, we have fuse, don't we? nevermind, just another set of issues Jan 13 18:37:06 'Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use regular expressions." Now they have two problems.' Jan 13 18:43:34 must resist urge to use fuse Jan 13 18:49:14 destinal: egaudet_work do either of you see anything wrong with this: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/165091/ Jan 13 18:49:45 destinal: fuse is sweet Jan 13 18:50:12 jacques: unionfs is/was accepted Jan 13 18:50:18 jacques: but aufs is more preferred now Jan 13 18:51:08 PuffTheMagic: you can do: if grep -q /bin/sh /etc/shells; then echo foo; fi Jan 13 18:51:16 simpler than using test Jan 13 18:51:41 (and cat etc) Jan 13 18:56:51 wow, the Mac OSX SDK include /opt/nova/bin/cpuboot ? Jan 13 19:11:24 destinal: probably puts it in recovery mode Jan 13 19:11:47 PuffTheMagic: no, it's an omap3 cpu boot Jan 13 19:11:56 USB Jan 13 19:12:20 like the one we found and compiled but probably made by palm Jan 13 19:12:24 or TI Jan 13 19:13:11 someone added a sample usage to: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Last_Resort_Emergency_BootLoader_Recovery Jan 13 19:13:35 destinal: its essentially the same thing Jan 13 19:13:50 essentially same thing as omap3_usbload, yes Jan 13 19:14:39 oh, is this the best place to contact rwhitby about that patch? or should I try email or something? (I suspect this is the best place) Jan 13 19:17:32 what patch Jan 13 19:22:12 Whats Ryan hope's Nick? I am tryin to get some help with this freetether app. Jan 13 19:22:42 /last freetether Jan 13 19:22:59 ? Jan 13 19:23:05 JMyaDaGod: that would be me whats up Jan 13 19:23:13 JMyaDaGod: and if its windows 7 related i cant/wont help Jan 13 19:23:14 ;) Jan 13 19:23:19 lol Jan 13 19:23:34 i cant get the ipk to install Jan 13 19:23:45 am i supposed to install all three? Jan 13 19:23:55 all three what? Jan 13 19:24:22 PuffTheMagic: i was in testing feeds and theres is armv6 armv7 and i686 whats the diference? Jan 13 19:24:45 armv6 is pixi, i686 is EMU Jan 13 19:24:51 armv7 is pre Jan 13 19:25:02 o ok i am stupid Jan 13 19:25:19 it's okay, it happens Jan 13 19:25:40 PuffTheMagic:and i got it on my phone but i just see null..... You said not windows 7 ready yet? Jan 13 19:26:59 PuffTheMagic: what all features work as of now? Wifi,bluetooth,usb? Jan 13 19:26:59 if you dont see addresses then the service isnt running Jan 13 19:27:02 reboot or something Jan 13 19:27:06 it works on win7 Jan 13 19:27:15 i just dont know what the setup/drivers is involved Jan 13 19:27:25 cause i havent used windows in almost a decade Jan 13 19:27:30 usb and bt work Jan 13 19:27:32 i got address's but only in wifi and main Jan 13 19:27:32 no wifi Jan 13 19:28:03 will it be null until i connect? Jan 13 19:28:22 is BT even on? Jan 13 19:28:26 is usbnet enabled? Jan 13 19:28:48 i dont see a place to enable usbnet. Jan 13 19:28:59 .... Jan 13 19:29:11 JMyaDaGod: i didnt get to adding that to the gui Jan 13 19:29:18 you need to do it manually if that is what you want to use Jan 13 19:29:31 or close the gui and start bt then optn the gui again and u should have a bt addy Jan 13 19:29:57 As of right now i am just going to use as usb....How would i go about doing it manually Jan 13 19:29:58 ? Jan 13 19:30:15 got terminal access? Jan 13 19:30:19 yea Jan 13 19:30:29 run 'usbnet enable' Jan 13 19:30:30 then reboot Jan 13 19:31:13 so i just type "usbnet enable" thats it nothing before it? Jan 13 19:31:50 ok thanks rebooting now Jan 13 19:32:22 PuffTheMagic: do i have to disable it for any reason? Jan 13 19:33:29 PuffTheMagic: one last question ...sorry...how do i go about updating it if one comes out? Jan 13 19:33:57 no u dont have to disable it Jan 13 19:34:07 JMyaDaGod: update via preware like any other app Jan 13 19:34:47 oh ok thanks Jan 13 19:36:05 hi, today I discovered /usr/bin/pubsubservice, it always has a connection to some server in 205.140.203.xxx on the jabber port. What does this service do? Doesn't anyone worry? Jan 13 19:37:56 tcp 0 0 174-149-58-99.pools.s:49079 205.140.203.42:xmpp-client ESTABLISHED Jan 13 19:38:47 destinal, yes that one. and 0174... isn't your phone number, is it? Jan 13 19:39:45 my phone's IP address is, for the moment, 174.149.58.99. not trying to keep it a big secret Jan 13 19:40:43 Anyone ever use "Cisco Meeting Place"? Jan 13 19:41:14 dBsooner: they set up conference bridges at my company on it Jan 13 19:41:33 destinal: Yeah, I have to join a conference call in 20 minutes.. Jan 13 19:42:02 destinal: We have Cisco systems at work as well.. I just wonder if I can do the "Web conference" from firefox. Jan 13 19:42:11 Or if it will need some special plugin that FireFox doesn't have. Jan 13 19:42:13 dBsooner: hmm, dunnno, never tried it Jan 13 19:42:31 (the web interface at all) Jan 13 19:42:45 ahh.. Yeah. It's for Shared Desktops Jan 13 19:42:57 I think I've been to web meetings to that on my mac with firefox, but I'm not 100% sure Jan 13 19:42:58 so you can see what the meeting chair is doing Jan 13 19:43:28 I'm signed into meeting place.. and all.. I just can't remember if it has to load any plugins or not. Jan 13 19:43:33 I go to lots of web meetings, so it's hard to say Jan 13 19:43:57 Oh well.. we'll see when I hit "Connect" and "have Meeting Place call me at: " Jan 13 19:44:03 I think it's java Jan 13 19:44:08 I hope so. Jan 13 19:47:44 bsm: on the pubsub stuff, all is here: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1671&Itemid=279 Jan 13 19:48:52 bsm: basically a unique key is created that you can provide to a service in the cloud that it can use to send a message to palm to be delivered to your pre which delivers it to your app Jan 13 19:49:14 rather than polling lots of random services in the cloud, you just connect to the palm "ps" one Jan 13 19:50:07 which is done automagically by mojo framework Jan 13 19:50:36 or something like that, don't quote me on it :) Jan 13 19:50:55 thanks destinal. Nevertheless being in the cloud is some kind of ... strange. Jan 13 19:51:09 indeed Jan 13 19:52:30 palm includes in the sdk some examples including server side code that a webapp might use to partake in the conversation that runs on google app engine Jan 13 19:55:06 don't tell me too much about it, apart from the cloud computing stuff the pre is a really nice device :) Jan 13 19:55:48 bsm: well, they've attempted to securify it quite a bit, generally I think this just provides more integrated / rich data services to mojo apps Jan 13 19:56:10 not sure if anyone much is using it yet or not Jan 13 19:56:58 hi guys. I don't know if anyone already noticed that now is possible to install apps from the palm beta feed in europe. 3 days ago it wasn't possible. Jan 13 19:56:58 hm maybe I'll remove the binary and check if any app fails. Jan 13 19:57:11 glorifiedg: noticed Jan 13 19:57:22 what happens if you try to install an app you have to pay for? Jan 13 19:57:37 mobilehotspotd has a tremendous tendency to segfault when given malformed json Jan 13 19:58:08 and I'd like to try to install some apps that are not available in the german app catalog Jan 13 19:58:11 it opens the app catalog were is written that the app is not available in my country. I'm in portugal. Jan 13 19:58:24 ah, too bad. Jan 13 19:58:42 then its useless apart from the beta stuff. Jan 13 19:58:47 even in free apps it doenst allow the installation Jan 13 20:00:20 I tried to install accuweather free and I cant . it was available in 1.1.3 but not any more... at least not in portugal. Jan 13 20:00:28 mobilehotspotd also really likes to return "true" to lots of things, making it really hard to talk to and know if it likes you or not Jan 13 20:00:32 I really ask myself if palm knows that they are uber-stupid to close the app store Jan 13 20:01:49 destinal: has mobilehotspotd anything to do with pubsubservice or are you playing around with it? :) Jan 13 20:02:06 bsm: just playing around with it. the pre wants to be a hotspot Jan 13 20:02:30 mytether? Jan 13 20:02:37 bsm: no, this is palm codde Jan 13 20:02:40 s/dd/d/ Jan 13 20:02:41 destinal meant: bsm: no, this is palm code Jan 13 20:03:02 thanks for having the sed bot XD Jan 13 20:03:09 ~botsnack Jan 13 20:03:09 :), destinal Jan 13 20:03:53 bsm are you using o2 1.3.5.2? Jan 13 20:04:52 hey gang if I did a full wipe on my pre, updated firmware to 1.3.5.1 then install preware back, do I need to mess with the mvapps/partitioning stuff again, or is "no space for apps" issue now taken care of by the current state of webos? Jan 13 20:05:07 glorifiedg: no, I'm still on 1.3.1 as I'm missing greg's ICQ plugin Jan 13 20:05:24 hmm, somehow I now have 20 bridge interfaces, so I must have done something Jan 13 20:05:38 :s yeah, I miss gregs MSN... Jan 13 20:06:03 uncorq: try it. app catalog installs to /media/internal and preware also should. Jan 13 20:07:06 thx Jan 13 20:08:13 bsm: if you have a shell on your pre do you mind running this? ifconfig -a|grep ^bri|wc -l Jan 13 20:09:38 destinal I've got 0 bridge interfaces Jan 13 20:09:47 bsm: what version? Jan 13 20:09:49 of webos Jan 13 20:09:50 1.3.1 Jan 13 20:09:54 oh Jan 13 20:10:04 right, expected, no mobilehotspotd there Jan 13 20:10:05 whereas I thing the bridges are ifb0 and ifb1 Jan 13 20:10:30 mobilehotspotd on 1.3.5+ makes bridge* ints Jan 13 20:10:38 0 through who knows how high Jan 13 20:10:44 ah Jan 13 20:11:29 I'm really impressed palm uses iptables on the phone Jan 13 20:11:33 it's a binary service so I'm trying to figure out how to properly use the methods it provides on the bus Jan 13 20:12:20 last night I had 12 interfaces, now I have 21 but I can't reliably add or remove them yet. I must have done something at some point when I wasn't paying attention Jan 13 20:12:56 sleep walking adding interfaces? :) Jan 13 20:12:59 so now I'm curious how many come with a 1.3.5 device Jan 13 20:13:23 and rebooting doesn't fix your 21 devices? Jan 13 20:13:27 bsm well I've been trying to call the interfaceAdd method of the service and it returns "true" but usually nothing changes Jan 13 20:13:39 bsm: haven't tried it. nothing "broken" per se anyway, just odd Jan 13 20:13:45 if you want it I'll run it on my 1.3.5.2 Jan 13 20:13:53 glorifiedg: that would be good, thanks Jan 13 20:14:24 sorry for the ignorance but I just have to run that command on terminal right? Jan 13 20:14:34 yes Jan 13 20:14:57 glorifiedg: you could also run ifconfig -a and count the bri* interfaces Jan 13 20:15:28 * destinal wonders how many people in the world use terminal. alas, the number is unobtainable Jan 13 20:15:46 I only have bridge0 on my pre " Jan 13 20:15:56 destinal: can't count downloads from the feed? Jan 13 20:16:26 Lumiere: well, downloads isn't really users Jan 13 20:16:31 I _have_ terminal, but it's really just handier to type on a full keyboard, so I generally novaterm in Jan 13 20:16:34 it is a start Jan 13 20:16:56 I'm sure many users have downloaded it many times Jan 13 20:17:18 interesting, I can't install apps from the precentral feed "wget: content-length 426 is garbage" Jan 13 20:17:40 well... so youall know.. Firefox was a no go Jan 13 20:17:47 that sucks Jan 13 20:17:48 bsm: you're manually downloading them to install them with ipkg? Jan 13 20:17:53 it called me.. but never really got the Desktop shell going Jan 13 20:18:01 Might be a java 64bit Jan 13 20:18:10 destinal: Firefox on what... Pre? Jan 13 20:18:11 destinal: no simply from preware tapping "install" Jan 13 20:18:13 IE worked fine though. Jan 13 20:18:19 oh. weird. Jan 13 20:18:26 LOL.. No.. this was an off topic discussion from earlier. Jan 13 20:18:48 Lumiere: heh, I'm not sure we want firefox on pre Jan 13 20:19:06 I wonder about Gecko though Jan 13 20:20:06 Lumiere: an SDL port would be somewhat tricky, I think Jan 13 20:20:07 Could you imagine it? Jan 13 20:20:14 how do I use ipkg on the device? do I need some options? Jan 13 20:20:16 uTorrent! Jan 13 20:20:21 uTorrent on pre. Jan 13 20:20:21 :) Jan 13 20:20:30 dBsooner: lol Jan 13 20:20:49 destinal: well gecko isn't even a front end... I thought Jan 13 20:21:16 so you should be able to write a front end to the library (Although... Firefox is mostly js itself I thought) Jan 13 20:21:45 Hello all. I'm new here, and a linux newbie, but have experience with free BSD. I love the idea of sshing to my pre (I'm doing it right now) but can anyone lead me to the right direction on getting more commands working like "make" etc. Also I can get ifconfig when I'm in novacom as root but as my regular user I'm unable to. tia. Jan 13 20:22:14 voxtel: you can put lots of stuff on there with optware Jan 13 20:22:32 voxtel: try /sbin/ifconfig as the normal user Jan 13 20:22:40 ifconfig is in /sbin which isn't in your normal user path Jan 13 20:22:42 yeah I'm getting bad adress Jan 13 20:22:56 voxtel: but I recommend building code on a PC with a cross compiler Jan 13 20:23:09 Oh that makes sense. Jan 13 20:23:35 and the difference from BSD to linux is not large Jan 13 20:23:38 There's a good page on the wiki detailing optware? Jan 13 20:23:47 but I've installed random things like vim, less, and fdisk via optware Jan 13 20:23:52 it can be very handy Jan 13 20:24:09 and with bsm method I get only bridge0 Jan 13 20:24:28 sorry if that's not helpfull Jan 13 20:24:29 destinal: SDLvim? :) Jan 13 20:24:30 ok so I am the odd one out with a ton of interfaces Jan 13 20:24:32 good to know Jan 13 20:24:36 Lumiere: nah, local Jan 13 20:24:40 must terminal or ssh Jan 13 20:24:42 Destinal: Thanks. I like the idea of having a full fledge linux box in my pocket. :) Jan 13 20:24:48 destinal: does it do colors? :) Jan 13 20:24:51 yes Jan 13 20:25:19 destinal: yeah I checked mine and I only have a few interfaces Jan 13 20:25:20 hm, when using Wifi and 3G I have TWO default routes. I thought this is not possible?! Jan 13 20:25:32 bsm: sure it is; metric Jan 13 20:25:35 yea Jan 13 20:25:45 wifi should have a lower metric then 3G Jan 13 20:25:46 dbsooner, some torrent client would be sweet... if it don't Jan 13 20:25:53 voxtel: you can just install the optware package from preware Jan 13 20:25:53 (lower as in better) Jan 13 20:25:59 jacques: lower metric means higher priority? Jan 13 20:26:00 ah thanks Jan 13 20:26:01 ...suck all of pre cpu lol Jan 13 20:26:02 ah Jan 13 20:26:04 voxtel: then you can ipkg-opt install foo Jan 13 20:26:05 bsm: yep Jan 13 20:26:13 glorifiedg: Yeah, I agree.. and if you limit it to slow speeds, it wouldn't. Jan 13 20:26:15 where foo is the standard package name Jan 13 20:26:21 s/wouldn't/shouldn't/ Jan 13 20:26:22 dBsooner meant: glorifiedg: Yeah, I agree.. and if you limit it to slow speeds, it shouldn't. Jan 13 20:26:42 destinal: I kinda want the gtk-vim interface for pre :) Jan 13 20:26:46 destinal: Great. Made it easy enough for me. Jan 13 20:26:54 (with mouse action) Jan 13 20:27:19 voxtel: it keeps getting easier, you used to have to do a lot of manual setup Jan 13 20:27:51 preware makes things really handy Jan 13 20:28:04 The dev community, well internals, has really been fantastic Jan 13 20:28:50 bbiab (grab food) Jan 13 20:28:55 * Lumiere is waiting for the day where preware is retired Jan 13 20:29:35 because for preware to be retired... everything it does has to either be added to webos, or doable from the app catalog Jan 13 20:30:03 I think I liked it better when the palm app catalog wasn't loaded with it. Jan 13 20:31:13 you can turn those feeds off Jan 13 20:31:15 Rick_work: you can only re-jig a phone to have a US profile if you actually possess a US phone as well. Jan 13 20:31:26 morning rwhitby Jan 13 20:31:35 Lumiere: Thanks for the heads up. Jan 13 20:31:37 interesting, when I try to download batterysaver via 3G I get a ipkg error. Downloading via wifi works. Jan 13 20:31:37 rebooting reverted me to one bridge int btw Jan 13 20:37:56 I used the contact form about developer access on precentral.net what seems like 18 months ago (but in reality is more like 3 days); how long does that usually take? Jan 13 20:42:03 jettero: please pastebin your proposed patch (make sure it's a clean and robust one, cause errors in upstart are fatal), thanks. Jan 13 20:43:01 is there a list of available packages from ipkg-opt? I don't think usermod is in there. Jan 13 20:44:21 voxtel: ipkg-opt list Jan 13 20:44:37 jacques: Thanks. Jan 13 20:46:24 voxtel: usermod is masquerading as 'vi' ;-) Jan 13 20:47:15 rwhitby: Right. :) Jan 13 20:47:40 rwhitby: http://is.gd/6cLYG <--- it's not pastebin, but if you click raw, it should do nicely Jan 13 20:48:03 hmm - awk in upstart. Jan 13 20:48:34 and the second convenience bind into /media still needs to be done Jan 13 20:48:37 haha, yeah, PuffTheMagic complained about that too Jan 13 20:48:44 one revision back is no awk, and I can use cut instead Jan 13 20:49:30 oh, I'm skipping too much startup? Jan 13 20:49:43 need to think about how this would work on the emulator too ... Jan 13 20:50:13 k, I'm open to any change you have in mind. I just don't want the default startup to step on the way I mount my opt loopback Jan 13 20:50:30 if possible Jan 13 20:51:35 (incidentally, awk seems pretty light weight to me, although I rarely use it. Is it so bad?) Jan 13 20:56:44 maybe this: http://is.gd/6dats Jan 13 20:57:00 although, the second "convenience" mount should probably have a similar check Jan 13 21:01:39 yes, it should Jan 13 21:02:21 note that modifications to this file need to be absolutely robust in operation - a single error in this file will cause the rest of the script to be skipped and the upstart service start to fail and will ruin your whole day Jan 13 21:03:13 egaudet_work: the /media/cryptofs mount is the right way around Jan 13 21:03:38 it's there so that you can install libraries without needing a postinst Jan 13 21:03:40 rwhitby: I'll make sure to test it on on my own pre and my emulator Jan 13 21:04:10 I added a similar check for the second mount bind. I think it could be more DRY... Jan 13 21:04:28 jettero: it's also best if the tests don't output random strings to /var/log/messages. grep -q for instance Jan 13 21:04:35 what does it take to crash upstart? just failing ot mount? or a bad exit value? Jan 13 21:04:44 I'm using grep -q Jan 13 21:04:58 the only extra verbosity should be from the echos, which I caan take out... Jan 13 21:05:02 basically, the script is run with sh -e Jan 13 21:05:12 I did plan for the -e Jan 13 21:05:22 jettero: what version of the script are you looking at? Jan 13 21:05:23 morning rwhitby. Did you get my question about MediaWiki? Or the possibility of a chroot'ed ftp login to upload images? Jan 13 21:05:43 rwhitby: haha, I used -q elsewhere, but not in this patch. Sec Jan 13 21:06:13 dBsooner: yes, I'll need to ponder the security implications of that Jan 13 21:06:47 anyway, I'm pretty sure the test conditions in an if do not trip a -e environment and all the original commands are the same (not counting the echos) Jan 13 21:07:01 dBsooner: (i.e. someone MITM attacking your password and then using OSUOSL as a torrent site would not be a good outcome) Jan 13 21:07:02 rwhitby: You could only allow login from my server's ip Jan 13 21:07:34 and only attach it as an rsync process or ftp process Jan 13 21:07:56 use SSL over FTP for login :p Jan 13 21:09:30 dBsooner: why not sftp and use a key + password? Jan 13 21:10:21 destinal: I agree. I think just key would be fine. Jan 13 21:10:33 regardless, no MITM issuex Jan 13 21:10:44 because my key is stored on my server in a directory not accessible via a shell. Jan 13 21:10:51 as long as you verify the proper key signature of the remote Jan 13 21:10:54 first time Jan 13 21:11:32 Anyway.. I agree with rwhitby and made the mistake of talking about security in an open logged channel. :) I'll refrain from comment now. Jan 13 21:11:44 rwhitby: I think my latest version is pretty solid. I need to review it again before I inflict it on myself Jan 13 21:12:29 I think open channels are good for talking about security in general Jan 13 21:12:47 Did someone say something a while ago about a port of xorg or X11? Jan 13 21:13:02 but not specific security. Jan 13 21:13:28 dBsooner: specific security is great in an open channel, just not keys / passwords. the security should not be in secret implementation or algorithm Jan 13 21:13:46 that's not security Jan 13 21:14:13 shrug. I just want a way to get the images from my server to the OSUOSL server Jan 13 21:14:22 automatically. Jan 13 21:14:28 which has betterr batterylife pixi or pre? Jan 13 21:14:41 i have the pre and my friend is trying to decide between the 2 Jan 13 21:14:50 dBsooner: yeah, I know, just getting into theory / philosophy here, don't mind me Jan 13 21:15:25 destinal: I have done remote rsync via keys only .. and blocked all but 1 specific ip. Jan 13 21:15:32 That is how I do my backups and so forth. Jan 13 21:15:43 sportman: with 1.3.5 the Pre has much better matt life and a way to get even more with larger batteries Jan 13 21:15:43 dBsooner: you can do remote rsync over ssh Jan 13 21:15:47 dBsooner: sounds fine Jan 13 21:15:53 not sure if the pixi has larger batts for sale Jan 13 21:16:00 check precentral Jan 13 21:16:10 s/matt/batt Jan 13 21:16:12 i was talking stock battery life Jan 13 21:16:27 destinal: SFTP is ok too.. It would be as secure. Jan 13 21:16:49 and SFTP is already implemented in OpenSSH SFTP. :) Jan 13 21:16:54 PuffTheMagic , or anyone using freetether: what is correct way to get ur computer to hook up with u phone it seems mine only does it when it wants to i cant force it too Jan 13 21:17:03 on usb Jan 13 21:17:12 dBsooner: http://troy.jdmz.net/rsync/index.html Jan 13 21:17:25 it's pretty easy to rsync over ssh without special software Jan 13 21:17:35 but whichever's easy Jan 13 21:17:36 JMyaDaGod: i dont really underwstand your question Jan 13 21:17:45 JMyaDaGod: how'd you install free tether ? Jan 13 21:17:48 destinal: nice find. Now we just have to wait for rwhitby to think it over. Jan 13 21:17:49 mine seems to only work when i let my phone sleep then my connections appears Jan 13 21:18:20 JMyaDaGod: you may have to turn off your wifi for it to work Jan 13 21:18:21 like i open freetether and then plug in usb or otherway around? Jan 13 21:18:27 wifi is off Jan 13 21:18:38 well it's alpha ;] Jan 13 21:18:47 like right now the app isnt even open and its working Jan 13 21:19:04 maybe another driver is blocking it sometime from my computer????? Jan 13 21:19:14 You using windows JMyaDaGod? Jan 13 21:19:14 JMyaDaGod: that's fine, the app just sets up for it to be on or off that's all Jan 13 21:19:32 like its trying to use the phone for something else besides a modem maybe? Jan 13 21:20:48 man tis sucks Jan 13 21:20:51 PuffTheMagic : so what all u do is plug ur phone in usb and select just charge and ur connection appears on your computer? Jan 13 21:21:08 i had tweed on my phone and now i asks me to pay for it Jan 13 21:21:17 JMyaDaGod: i dont use windows, idk what windows people do Jan 13 21:21:23 lol Jan 13 21:23:21 PuffTheMagic :I think my problem is that it is trying to use the pre as something besides a modem and that is conflicting with it and maybe when it sleeps or i get a call it shuts that off and allows it to be a modem maybe Jan 13 21:25:29 again I needed tethering and didn't have it Jan 13 21:25:48 whats the .conf url for the testing feed ? Jan 13 21:27:16 or does the preware bootstrap take care of that? Jan 13 21:27:28 i dont think it does Jan 13 21:28:08 i have the beta preware just not feed Jan 13 21:29:35 someone told me it was this but i cant get it to work , but i am a noob . /media/cryptofs/apps/etc/ipkg/webosinternalstesting.conf Dont know if its right though Jan 13 21:30:52 that can be the location yes but i need the bits inside Jan 13 21:31:34 i dont know lol someone told me to go to terminal type nano /media/cryptofs/apps/etc/ipkg/webosinternalstesting.conf and it should work but it didnt for me so i dont know Jan 13 21:32:17 hi, I saw that msmcommd was commited to oe, Is there more details on that effort to be able to use the palm pre modem with FSO Jan 13 21:32:32 JMyaDaGod: that's half way there Jan 13 21:33:08 robi_ :and then what do i/we need? Jan 13 21:33:51 i need to figure that out myself Jan 13 21:34:01 but for some reason I can't ssh in Jan 13 21:34:03 JMyaDaGod: you dont use the phone a modem with freeTether Jan 13 21:34:09 you use it like you would use a cable modem Jan 13 21:35:46 PuffTheMagic : ok sorry used wrong words it just seems that something else is taking precident over connecting it as the "freetether modem", and it only works when my phone goes to "sleep". Jan 13 21:41:27 PuffTheMagic: you runnign the testing feed? Jan 13 21:42:39 PuffTheMagic: does freeTether violate sprint's contract? Jan 13 21:43:25 Robi_: no Jan 13 21:43:50 Lumiere: i dont think so... since its not really tethering Jan 13 21:43:57 ah Jan 13 21:44:14 JMyaDaGod: you might have to disable you wifi/ethernet if they are connected Jan 13 21:44:33 Lumiere : i dont know about pre but i used it on my centro and downloaded 12 GB one month and they never said anything Jan 13 21:45:05 JMyaDaGod: I did similar with my 755p just streaming music to the palm Jan 13 21:45:59 PuffTheMagic : it just seems weird i can get it to work sometimes but cant figure out what is causing it to work and not work i think i got it though ...... hold on a sec imma double check it Jan 13 21:46:30 JMyaDaGod: you probably we doing real tethering on your centro Jan 13 21:46:40 yea i was Jan 13 21:46:41 freeTether does not put the phone into a "modem" state Jan 13 21:46:51 this is simply ip forwarding+nat Jan 13 21:47:05 its the same thing as if you turned a normal linux box into a router Jan 13 21:47:11 PuffTheMagic : how long do u ussually have to wait for it to contect to ur system? Jan 13 21:47:21 JMyaDaGod: its instant Jan 13 21:48:19 PuffTheMagic : not for me i dont know why hmmm..... it seems if i let it go for a little it connects in about 2 -3 min Jan 13 21:49:05 JMyaDaGod: sounds like your networking setup in windows7 isnt doing what you want it to, sorry cant help with that Jan 13 21:49:33 im on 7 i am going to check on a xp system see if there difference and try to figure a way around it by disabling some stuff Jan 13 21:50:37 it seems to work if i put it on airplane mode take it off Jan 13 21:51:11 JMyaDaGod: I've noticed sometimes restarting my EVDO connection that way fixes it Jan 13 21:51:26 not related to any tethering, I don't use that Jan 13 21:51:30 just regular use Jan 13 21:53:32 woohoo got it fixed thru TERMINAL Jan 13 21:53:34 ugh Jan 13 21:53:46 Robi_ :fixed what? Jan 13 21:53:57 testing feed Jan 13 21:54:08 can u pass on the next steps lol Jan 13 21:54:15 uh it's not a good idea Jan 13 21:54:21 esp since you odnt know what you're doing :P Jan 13 21:54:27 lol Jan 13 21:54:40 did u use nano? Jan 13 21:54:45 vi Jan 13 21:55:07 i dont even have anno installed yet Jan 13 21:55:13 s/anno/nano Jan 13 22:02:08 you guys see this : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/13/trojan_dialer_comeback/ Jan 13 22:04:11 ugh comcast.. Jan 13 22:05:36 is there a way to show only free apps by last updated in Preware? Jan 13 22:06:10 WillJitsu: at the moment, no. A preference to hide paid apps seems to be a popular request. Jan 13 22:06:49 rwhitby: 20 bridge interfaces seems not to be the norm, but something I did somehow :) Jan 13 22:06:57 which I'm glad to know Jan 13 22:07:06 rwhitby: ok thanks. also, did ya'll decide against putting some kind of color or badge on the paid apps? Jan 13 22:07:36 WillJitsu: didn't decide against anything :-) Jan 13 22:08:52 rwhitby: ah ok. I think it would be a good idea just for a quick visual scan of the differences. not sure if that's easy to implement or not, but it would be nice imo :) Jan 13 22:10:28 yeah, a little dollar sign overlay on the icon or something Jan 13 22:10:43 yeah Jan 13 22:11:15 JMyaDaGod: i've used that freeTehter for hours on end over night downloading torrents Jan 13 22:11:22 it should work continuously Jan 13 22:16:28 Sorry, you have to be logged in to download this item. Access Denied You are already logged in. - oooookaaaaay ... Jan 13 22:21:57 PuffTheMagic I am on it now i dont have a problem staying connected it just takes a couple min to get connected gonna try some torrents now IPT down so i gotta go somewhere else brb Jan 13 22:26:38 so uh does freetether do wifi tethering or only usb? Jan 13 22:26:38 PuffTheMagic : whats average speed u get? Jan 13 22:26:56 only usb and bluetooth Jan 13 22:32:01 bah Jan 13 22:32:03 i really need wifi Jan 13 22:32:10 time to script that myself Jan 13 22:35:08 is mytether abandoned? Jan 13 22:36:01 quake/doom wont run on my 1.3.5.2 european pre Jan 13 22:36:05 any known issues? Jan 13 22:36:42 any idea why it doesn't run ? Jan 13 22:37:51 there is an notification "doom/quake: starting" and then... nothing Jan 13 22:38:42 mytether is not abandoned it's just donation-ware and messes up camera and 3D gaming to get wifi tethering working Jan 13 22:41:51 hucksy, that sounds terrible .. can you start it from the commandline ? Jan 13 22:42:27 Robi: PuffTheMagic has trying to break down the new mbilehotspot service to see if he can get it working before Verizon Pre hits Jan 13 22:42:39 has been trying* Jan 13 22:42:55 Kyusaku: actually it's me who has been trying :) Jan 13 22:42:56 bpadalino|work: i will try Jan 13 22:42:57 sec Jan 13 22:43:24 my mistake Jan 13 22:43:31 Kyusaku: so far I've been able to get status information and somehow created a ton of bridge interfaces Jan 13 22:43:36 so it's a ways off Jan 13 22:44:04 too bad it's c and not java :) Jan 13 22:44:23 Kyusaku: why does it even mess with the camera? Jan 13 22:44:42 Robi_: it messes with the kernel Jan 13 22:44:47 destinal: whats the complication now for creating an ad-hoc network? Jan 13 22:45:10 new kernel removed ad-hoc support? Jan 13 22:45:21 Robi_: well I'm trying to use the fully packaged palm mobilehotspot service, so I'm working on reverse engineering its interfaces Jan 13 22:45:50 ah yes i noticed it running already Jan 13 22:46:03 Robi_: have to figure out what its methods are (done I think) and what the parameters to those methods are (nowhere near done) Jan 13 22:46:25 cool, let me know if I can assist Jan 13 22:46:35 i have an extra per here to mess with for 2 weeks Jan 13 22:46:38 and a 3rd shipped Jan 13 22:46:47 wil have that in a few days Jan 13 22:47:16 s/per/pre Jan 13 22:47:40 Robi_: for now try luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.mobilehotspot/sysInfo {} Jan Jan 13 22:47:52 err s/ Jan// Jan 13 22:48:03 luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.mobilehotspot/sysInfo Jan 13 22:48:10 bpadalino|work: mmh, how? ;) cant find a quake binary Jan 13 22:48:12 s{} Jan 13 22:48:17 * destinal can't type Jan 13 22:48:33 heh paste! Jan 13 22:48:50 Robi_: that failed also, I got that Jan by mistake. ignore the Jan Jan 13 22:49:15 ya hang on i gotta get ssh working, novacom stinks for cli work Jan 13 22:49:39 I find novaterm inside iTerm quite useable :-) Jan 13 22:49:59 but prefer editing files over wifi using Emacs and tramp ... Jan 13 22:50:15 hey mickeyl Jan 13 22:50:54 hucksy: cd /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.sdlquake/bin; ./quake Jan 13 22:51:19 ugh whats | in term Jan 13 22:51:35 orange + . Jan 13 22:51:48 mh Jan 13 22:51:50 works Jan 13 22:51:53 frm the commandline Jan 13 22:52:03 only the start-icons are broken Jan 13 22:52:05 interesting Jan 13 22:52:15 thanks :) Jan 13 22:52:59 k time for dropbear Jan 13 22:53:04 hi rwhitby Jan 13 22:53:07 how are things? Jan 13 22:53:33 hucksy: easy fix, edit /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.sdlquake/appinf.json and change web to game after "type", then change "index.html" to "bin/quake" after "main" Jan 13 22:53:49 then luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/rescan {} Jan 13 22:54:07 cool, thanks :) Jan 13 22:54:14 hucksy: probably there was a problem with your upstart service but this should cause direct launch Jan 13 22:54:50 appinfo.json not appinf Jan 13 22:54:58 rwhitby: it's good to see that webos-internals is a vibrant community. unfortunately the modem situation has pretty much taken the wind out of our sails :/ Jan 13 22:55:10 still morphis works on it, so there's hope Jan 13 22:55:32 oh sonuva bitch Jan 13 22:55:36 mickeyl: would it not be a free enough smart phone dot org if you borrow the services from webos and make dbus calls? Jan 13 22:55:40 dropbear is keys only too, rwhitby wtf Jan 13 22:55:48 mickeyl: probably not I suppose Jan 13 22:56:00 destinal: no, i'm afraid the idea of our middleware is our middleware ;) Jan 13 22:56:22 i'd love to keep webos though Jan 13 22:56:54 mickeyl: did you see that we have evas stuff working on the Pre ? Jan 13 22:57:00 mickeyl: I'd actually like to reimplement all the stuff open source one by one, but to do that we need to understand the modem also :) Jan 13 22:57:01 yeah, read it Jan 13 22:57:23 destinal: check msmcommd on git.fso, there's some work underwaa Jan 13 22:57:24 y Jan 13 22:57:29 Robi_: keys all the way. Jan 13 22:57:45 at least have 2 packages with diff configs Jan 13 22:57:55 it's dump I have to FIX it every time Jan 13 22:58:00 p-b Jan 13 22:58:06 Kyusaku: no i havent, destinal has.... but i might use some of that code in freeTether Jan 13 22:58:26 Puff: yeah destinal chimed in Jan 13 22:58:39 Robi_: no way to give a password through Preware, and we're certainly not going to open up an iPhone worm hole Jan 13 22:59:57 rwhitby: no password needed. just tell people to use terminal to adduser and set a password, disable root Jan 13 23:04:15 rwhitby: there could be a way to give a password through preware actually Jan 13 23:05:14 have a secondary package add the user and set a passw of your choosing Jan 13 23:05:28 not necessarily simple. if a package had some data in it describing pre-postinst parameters requested, it could prompt for them, write them to a parameters database that postinst scripts could read from Jan 13 23:05:35 maybe it needs more thought Jan 13 23:06:46 Robi_: so a third rogue webOS app can come along and overwrite the password? no thanks. Jan 13 23:06:53 whats good Jan 13 23:07:01 hi alkos333 Jan 13 23:07:16 mickeyl: how can someone help get involved with the msmcomm stuff ? Jan 13 23:07:22 oc80z: app catalog feeds in Preware, and the WIDK (new name for WebOS Internals PDK, since it will be more than a PDK) Jan 13 23:07:39 rwhitby thoughts on the 'web only apps' Jan 13 23:08:13 bpadalino|work: contact us on webos-internals mailing list or smartphones-userland@linuxtogo.org; we have decoded the basic frame types, but not yet the payload, so there's still a lot to do. Jan 13 23:08:16 rwhitby: I seem to recall that only the owning app can write to the db of that app. I could be wrong Jan 13 23:08:27 I scooped tha tup! Jan 13 23:08:29 bpadalino|work: morphis is the expert on that, he reads both lists i think Jan 13 23:09:18 mickeyl: no irc channel ? Jan 13 23:09:32 destinal: I think it would need something like ipkgservice or zenity for the challenge/response Jan 13 23:09:32 btw, the quick installed failed about 4 times on mass-install. Jan 13 23:09:34 or 6 *shrug* Jan 13 23:09:53 bpadalino|work: FSO developers hang out on #openmoko-cdevel Jan 13 23:09:54 had socket timeout/close .. would not re-open the socket to the device Jan 13 23:10:01 morphis is less often there, though Jan 13 23:10:10 gotcha Jan 13 23:10:13 i'll sign up for the ml Jan 13 23:10:17 righto Jan 13 23:10:35 mickeyl: you guys should get #fso ;-) Jan 13 23:10:47 we have #freesmartphone.org Jan 13 23:11:13 but as long as the "reference" platform for FSO is the FreeRunner, i'm ok with the traffic happening on #openmoko-cdevel Jan 13 23:11:18 although the name is bogus these days Jan 13 23:11:24 *shrug* did a new preware get pushed? Jan 13 23:12:26 mickeyl: it's called the MSM Comm Daemon ? Jan 13 23:12:42 rwhitby: what? how would it overwrite it with adduser ? Jan 13 23:12:52 bpadalino|work: ya, msm communication daemon (msmcomm in git.fso) Jan 13 23:12:58 http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=msmcomm.git;a=summary Jan 13 23:12:59 that'd be the only sanctioned command Jan 13 23:13:06 thanks Jan 13 23:13:33 the idea is that this is the lower level daemon that gets used by fsogsmd (which actually implements the phone middleware) Jan 13 23:13:53 right Jan 13 23:15:02 oc80z: yep Jan 13 23:16:23 nice Jan 13 23:16:26 Robi_: you said "have a secondary package add the user and set a passw of your choosing" - I assume you mean a webOS app as the secondary package which gets the password from the user and sets it. That would need a service for a start. And it would need to protect against rogue apps using that service. Jan 13 23:17:00 Robi_: it's not impossible to do securely, but it's not trivial either. Just use ssh keys. Jan 13 23:18:34 speaking of rogue apps.. Jan 13 23:18:42 the WebOS Only apps secure? Yikes.. Jan 13 23:19:48 Robi_: if you want to not use ssh keys, you can always ssh in, change the /etc/event.d/dropbear.conf to remove the -g, set a root password, and restart dropbear Jan 13 23:20:02 I don't believe in giving only one option Jan 13 23:20:53 - /etc/event.d/optware.dropbear sorry Jan 13 23:21:33 just ignore any command lines or paths I type today, I obviously can't do it. Jan 13 23:21:36 :P Jan 13 23:24:00 destinal: that's the problem atm I can't get in other than terminal Jan 13 23:24:10 its mobi.optware.dropbear Jan 13 23:26:54 argh Jan 13 23:27:06 how do I restart eventd Jan 13 23:27:12 so it picks up the cahnges Jan 13 23:27:25 i can kill sshd all i want it still loads the old config Jan 13 23:29:47 destinal ^ Jan 13 23:31:45 Robi_: stop optware-dropbear; start optware-dropbear Jan 13 23:31:55 no need to do anything to upstart Jan 13 23:32:36 Robi_: and you could have novaterm'd in before btw Jan 13 23:32:47 right? Jan 13 23:33:35 not working for some reason Jan 13 23:33:43 novaterm Jan 13 23:33:51 i'm sticking with openssh Jan 13 23:34:21 yeah? Jan 13 23:34:29 Robi_: oh if it's openssh it's PermitRootLogon I think Jan 13 23:34:35 in the openssh config file Jan 13 23:34:54 regardless I can't help further but it should be possible Jan 13 23:34:54 no Jan 13 23:35:13 i just need to restart event.d/ or whatever to get it to reread the file in there Jan 13 23:35:37 Robi_: you don't need to restart anything Jan 13 23:35:44 Robi_: upstart is immediate Jan 13 23:36:39 uhh yes I do Jan 13 23:36:40 we do all kinds edit /etc/event.d/blah, stop blah, start blah Jan 13 23:36:47 stop mobi.optware.openssh did the trick Jan 13 23:37:46 driving home bbl Jan 13 23:39:23 rwhitby: the service would only be able to do adduser Jan 13 23:41:29 Robi_: and how does the service determine that it is a user calling it to add a new user, and not a rogue webos app calling it to add a rogue user that is later used for a worm? Jan 13 23:41:55 rwhitby: have a runonce file Jan 13 23:42:11 change the gravitatioal constant of the universe Jan 13 23:42:34 or it removes itself on cleanup like EPR Jan 13 23:42:51 and don't change services for adding users Jan 13 23:43:34 Robi_: since it would be a signed service, a rogue webos app could call ipkgservice to reinstall it and then use it Jan 13 23:44:07 rwhitby: this could go on for decades and the functionality never appear, it's not the answer Jan 13 23:44:21 there's always a way around something Jan 13 23:44:25 correct, it's not the answer. the answer has to be secure. Jan 13 23:45:15 here, you make adduser only work with uid 1001 Jan 13 23:45:20 if it exists it wont work Jan 13 23:45:45 already done, rogue app has to do the heavy lifting Jan 13 23:45:47 has anyone here successfully embedded a googlemaps object into an app that supports pinch to zoom, by any change? :) Jan 13 23:45:50 chance* Jan 13 23:47:11 Robi_: alternatively, the user could just use ssh keys ... Jan 13 23:47:25 that's not an option Jan 13 23:48:09 what about a rogue app that copies your ssh keys? Jan 13 23:49:12 * destinal-wirc hates this topic. Jan 13 23:49:19 lets have another Jan 13 23:50:04 hey i've come up with at least 3 ways to increase the level of security, i think that's very reasonable Jan 13 23:50:31 Robi_: a rogue app does not have access to your private key Jan 13 23:50:57 and if a rogue app already has a way to trojan the ssh server, then you've lost the game already Jan 13 23:51:16 (we're talking about a rogue webOS app, installable using fileCoaster, here) Jan 13 23:51:41 if someone's trying hard enough, they'll get in Jan 13 23:51:43 rogue apps have root anyway :P Jan 13 23:51:50 exactly Jan 13 23:51:58 is there a gui way to forcefully reinstall packages on my palm? the ipkg database thinks a few patches are installed when they're actually not Jan 13 23:52:01 type game Jan 13 23:52:26 I know palm will fix it Jan 13 23:52:35 muesli: remove/install Jan 13 23:52:37 but I had to be a smartass Jan 13 23:52:44 bbl Jan 13 23:52:47 Robi_: won't work with patches because the patch failed Jan 13 23:52:58 (inside the postrm script) Jan 13 23:53:12 only way i know how to check is with quilt Jan 13 23:53:32 muesli: you may just have to run EPR Jan 13 23:53:50 i guess i could do it via ssh... Jan 13 23:54:02 certainly there's some option to pass to ipkg on the cli Jan 13 23:54:24 ipkg doens't know about patches afaik Jan 13 23:55:09 post-inst fails because the .js is already modified as to what it's supposed to be Jan 13 23:56:06 nope, it's actually not, that's the thing Jan 13 23:56:15 it has marked this package / patch as installed Jan 13 23:56:19 but it's not Jan 13 23:56:28 the files on the palm are original, no patch applied Jan 13 23:56:36 then you gotta remove it Jan 13 23:56:59 well that doesn't work, because then it tries to re-patch / remove the diff from the .js file Jan 13 23:57:01 and _that_ fails Jan 13 23:57:12 which patch we talkin about? Jan 13 23:57:23 some patches interfere with others Jan 13 23:57:52 Robi_: see, what happened was that i updated my phone to 1.3.5.2 but had issues with that, so i doctored it Jan 13 23:58:03 the ipkg database now thinks that my old patches are still installed Jan 13 23:58:10 but they're not since i doctored my phone Jan 13 23:58:47 why didn't the ipkg db get cleared Jan 13 23:59:17 "i'm not a doctor" - heh i don't know Jan 13 23:59:27 my guess it that the ota 1.3.5 update moved stuff to /media/internals Jan 13 23:59:34 which doesnt' get wiped when i doctor my phone Jan 13 23:59:42 muesli: the ipkg database got migrated Jan 13 23:59:53 did you run EPR before updating? Jan 13 23:59:58 rwhitby: yeah, that's what i was trying to say Jan 14 00:00:03 rwhitby: yes, i did and that worked Jan 14 00:00:09 but after the update i started installing patches again Jan 14 00:00:12 before i doctored Jan 14 00:00:16 which is basically my mistake i guess Jan 14 00:02:31 I just went about a week with no crashing during games, just crashed when i got a txt msg. Jan 14 00:02:48 we basically need preware to detect reimaged rootfs and rerun all postinst Jan 14 00:04:04 destinal-wirc: yeah, that's be sweet. and make epr remember installed patches and re-apply them after an update. ept (tool) instead of epr Jan 14 00:05:22 I think aupt will do that part Jan 14 00:16:39 oc80linux: Hey, what's up? Jan 14 00:19:17 hi Jan 14 00:21:36 timepants: what happens when the time expires? Jan 14 00:21:57 i become naked Jan 14 00:22:13 ding ding ding Jan 14 00:22:17 pics or it never happened Jan 14 00:22:25 :O Jan 14 00:23:44 nice pic, thanks for PMing Jan 14 00:24:20 -.o Jan 14 00:25:43 I think those would be TIMED pants Jan 14 00:26:18 or timerpants Jan 14 00:28:19 maybe they are Texan Instruments Millenium Edition Pants Jan 14 00:29:05 :o Jan 14 00:42:24 looking for ird or nebula Jan 14 00:43:24 anyone who was suppose to recieved the phones around? Jan 14 00:44:23 egaudet, ird, or nebula? Jan 14 00:44:58 anyone around? hehe Jan 14 00:45:09 i am around, but never ordered a phone :( Jan 14 00:45:29 ahh i remember, you were good Jan 14 00:45:42 never ordered, your account was fine for sending though Jan 14 00:45:55 ah neat Jan 14 00:46:28 i was having some problems with irc, so went with the web for now Jan 14 00:46:39 willl be back and forth Jan 14 00:46:40 ah cool Jan 14 00:46:54 wanted to see if any of their phones arrived Jan 14 00:47:09 yeah, doesn't seem like they're around currently :( Jan 14 00:47:14 if you see them around, tell them LT sprint guy asked for them thanks Jan 14 00:47:26 anytime your ready, send me a pm i have all your info already Jan 14 00:47:26 lt83850, yea phone arrived thank you! Jan 14 00:47:34 nice Jan 14 00:47:37 100 right? Jan 14 00:49:18 think others might have been interested too Jan 14 00:49:29 what is wrong with my xirc right now it's not showing anything Jan 14 00:49:29 kool Jan 14 00:49:34 brb Jan 14 00:49:39 np Jan 14 00:50:34 ok maybe my screen will refresh now Jan 14 00:51:02 hehe Jan 14 00:54:22 destinal-wirc, if you were intrested Jan 14 00:56:35 lt83850: idk how long this offer is good for but I might be down for one some time Jan 14 00:57:04 hey puff, im going to be around for some time no worries Jan 14 00:58:05 if anyone knows anyone with sprint corporate account with multiple #'s Jan 14 00:58:07 free pre Jan 14 00:58:09 : Jan 14 00:58:13 :D Jan 14 00:58:48 what exactly is the offer? Jan 14 00:58:55 if i had 1 with a lot of numbers like someones job, i can get a shitload Jan 14 00:59:00 and price would be even lower Jan 14 00:59:04 lt83850: trying to get rid of old pre's before the pluses come in? Jan 14 00:59:06 hello? Jan 14 00:59:21 basically gk - you get phone really cheap.....no attachments Jan 14 00:59:46 thats cool Jan 14 00:59:54 i love the scene, what better way to pay respect than giving devs cheap phone of choice Jan 14 00:59:56 how much is really cheap? lol Jan 14 01:00:03 puff, hehe - they all go, new revision Jan 14 01:00:13 gka.....ask around Jan 14 01:00:19 lol Jan 14 01:00:21 pixi prices if your a new customer, hehe Jan 14 01:00:54 100 bucks for first few guys....you know how the trust thing goes Jan 14 01:01:03 yeah, thats cool Jan 14 01:01:03 if i had corporate #'s i can get cheaper Jan 14 01:01:10 its bulk coupon, so i get shitloads Jan 14 01:01:18 but can bill you directly, at my price Jan 14 01:01:26 via sprint without a problem Jan 14 01:01:37 i can't order 100 phones on my account, it would flag me Jan 14 01:01:51 so i need a business who uses a lot of sprint Jan 14 01:02:02 but i can hook you guys up no prob Jan 14 01:02:16 no worries or attachments at all, can ask all that recieved Jan 14 01:02:29 1st time here...need help with preware...says package manager isn't installed and it is Jan 14 01:02:31 lt83850: do the same thing when it hits verizon and i'll be all over you Jan 14 01:02:40 lol Jan 14 01:02:52 i'm waiting patiently right now Jan 14 01:02:57 wish i had verizon contact, may have 1 guy but i know i wont get those prices heeh Jan 14 01:03:00 so when's the next time I can do this :P Jan 14 01:03:24 HOLMES: is it started? Jan 14 01:03:34 pricing been released yet? Jan 14 01:03:40 there is no time limit at all....take your time im always around and will always check on you guys to make sure all is good Jan 14 01:03:47 pre plus will be more than pre for sure Jan 14 01:04:18 i guess verizon doesn't need switchers to be competitive Jan 14 01:04:24 lt83850, my account is done for future deals? Jan 14 01:04:42 yes it's starts but says error as soon as it trys to open Jan 14 01:04:44 no egaudet...i can order you a different phone today without a problem Jan 14 01:05:00 same phone sometimes is a problem....unless you have multiple lines on that account Jan 14 01:05:09 can get in a lot of shit with personal accounts Jan 14 01:05:35 HOLMES: i mean, is the ipkgservice started? Jan 14 01:05:51 its why need business account, or # rather Jan 14 01:06:12 but your # was good and will be good for future updates, from me or sprint directly instore or online etc... Jan 14 01:06:44 cool cool Jan 14 01:07:53 not sure...all I can do is change preferences nothingelse.when I open preware it says error and that I haven't installed package manager but I have. Jan 14 01:09:54 HOLMES: and you have rebooted? Jan 14 01:10:20 yes even did a doctor Jan 14 01:11:34 I'm trying to reload it on my new replacment phone Jan 14 01:11:52 back Jan 14 01:12:31 * bhuey wishes that Sprint had an updated model Jan 14 01:12:43 Verizon dont even have it yet Jan 14 01:12:47 just wait for the Pre++ Jan 14 01:12:54 Does anybody know the power/performance differences between the snapdragon and cortex processors ? Jan 14 01:13:07 well, im sure sprint is gonna get it by the end of 2010 at least Jan 14 01:13:21 i mean who in their right mind would get a new Pre if they are already in a 2 year contract? Jan 14 01:13:40 the biggest lacking in the Pre is memory Jan 14 01:13:42 bhuey: ars technica just had a review of the nexus one. It has a snapdragon. in it they did benchmark comparisons to the droid and iphone. I would recommend reading that Jan 14 01:13:53 sprint now allows you to upgrade your phone every year. Jan 14 01:13:55 CoolMatty: convenient URL ? Jan 14 01:13:55 (and the pre in some benchmarks) Jan 14 01:14:14 bhuey: I'd have to google it so you can google it yourself :p Jan 14 01:14:21 just google ars technica nexus one review :p Jan 14 01:14:28 CoolMatty: yeah, figuring it out myself Jan 14 01:14:30 snapdragon runs at 1GHz Jan 14 01:14:36 pre at ~500 Jan 14 01:14:37 gkatsev: you can always change phones at sprint Jan 14 01:14:45 gkatsev: getting the discount is different Jan 14 01:14:53 Robi_: it's not always the clock speed that matters Jan 14 01:15:00 i know Jan 14 01:15:03 the pre actually did quite well compared to the snapdragon in some tests Jan 14 01:15:15 diff arch Jan 14 01:15:22 snapdragon is newer though, no? Jan 14 01:15:31 overall it should have a perf adv Jan 14 01:15:45 I don't think it's that much newer Jan 14 01:16:01 snapdragon devices have been around for about a year now I think Jan 14 01:16:03 PuffTheMagic: no, i mean, they are changing it so you can get subsidized phone once a year from now on on their everything ___ plans, if i understood correctly. Jan 14 01:16:18 oh Jan 14 01:16:27 if only verizon were so friendly Jan 14 01:16:32 gkatsev: of course that's assuming there's a preplus to upgrade to this year :/ Jan 14 01:16:41 i assume that in-contract verizon kids are screwed? Jan 14 01:16:43 well still, its been less than a year since Pre has been out, people shouldnt be tyring to upgrade already Jan 14 01:17:13 PuffTheMagic: yeah, i believe it lets you upgrade with full discount after 12 months now instead of after 23 months Jan 14 01:17:16 or something like that Jan 14 01:17:18 it doesn't come out till the end of january, then you have the verizon exclusivity agreement. we'll be lucky to see it on sprint before the 6/6 rolls around Jan 14 01:17:46 in june i'll be 12 mo Jan 14 01:17:54 CoolMatty: i say OMAP 3430 (600mhz cpu + 400mhz gpu) would be better than Snapdragon (1000mhz) Jan 14 01:18:01 CoolMatty: its most likely a 6 months deal as well. at worst, sprint will definitely get it in 2011 Jan 14 01:18:19 gkatsev: that would be the Pre++ by then Jan 14 01:18:29 PuffTheMagic: yeah, probably Jan 14 01:18:41 i wouldn't mind an omap 36xx with the half node shrink and bump in speed in the pre plus .. not sure if they did or not Jan 14 01:18:52 cpu is the same Jan 14 01:18:56 RAM + flash storage is doubled Jan 14 01:19:03 and if you get a pixi, you get wifi! woooo Jan 14 01:19:08 bpadalino: pre+ has a 36xx in it? Jan 14 01:19:14 PuffTheMagic: no idea ... Jan 14 01:19:19 no it doesn't Jan 14 01:19:20 but they are pin compatible Jan 14 01:19:26 i thought it was till 3430 with more mem/flash Jan 14 01:19:38 bpadalino: 36xx will be in pre++ Jan 14 01:19:39 :D Jan 14 01:19:42 heh Jan 14 01:19:43 everything we've been told is that it's just double RAM/Flash Jan 14 01:19:45 pre+ processor is the same no? Jan 14 01:19:53 Hah pre2... not ++ Jan 14 01:20:05 i dont think we'll know for sure until the phone comes out Jan 14 01:20:05 yeah, it doesnt make sense for them to change the processor yet. Jan 14 01:20:08 or geist confirms Jan 14 01:20:12 Tibfib: says who? Jan 14 01:20:13 which ever happens first Jan 14 01:20:37 no, it will be the pre+s, of course. Jan 14 01:20:45 Puff: a pre++ would be kind of lame... In my opinion. Jan 14 01:21:00 they'll call it the Post Jan 14 01:21:07 Tibfib: i didnt mean pre++ seriously, just that its the next one after pre+ Jan 14 01:22:19 actually, sorry, it will be the pre=pre+1 Jan 14 01:22:25 Puff: alrighty.... just havent heard of many++ things Jan 14 01:22:31 or perhaps the qre? Jan 14 01:22:34 i kinda wish they didn't call it the pre plus and just kept it as the pre .. maybe denoted it by 16GB or something .. that way there is no next numbering .. but would be more gen 1/2/3/4 Jan 14 01:22:37 Tibfib: C++? Jan 14 01:22:49 Puff: knew that was coming up as soon as I said that Jan 14 01:22:52 hah Jan 14 01:23:10 lol Jan 14 01:24:05 oh well... not worth debating over.... Jan 14 01:24:28 Ah crapp... My pre is screwed up Jan 14 01:24:33 uh oh Jan 14 01:24:40 didn't work when trying to doctor it... :O Jan 14 01:25:50 ahh might be working this time Jan 14 01:39:07 bpadalino: well it's more like the pre minus (minus the center button) ;) Jan 14 01:39:44 zing :) Jan 14 01:39:57 PuffTheMagic: but ++ in C is only post increment (+1) Jan 14 01:40:09 ++pre++ Jan 14 01:40:17 heh, pre and post pre Jan 14 01:40:20 increment Jan 14 01:40:34 is that even valid syntax ? Jan 14 01:41:02 ++(++*pre->version++) Jan 14 01:42:11 i get an lvalue required Jan 14 01:42:17 as increment operand Jan 14 01:42:27 same Jan 14 01:42:48 yea you can't be messing with lvalues man Jan 14 01:42:53 rwhitby: you around ? Jan 14 01:48:20 damn man space invaders is hard! Jan 14 01:48:34 hi Jan 14 01:48:36 i'm facing a problem of which i don't know, whether it would be solvable by doing some patching. i have a PalmPre connected to a LotusTraveler 8.51 via EAS (Exchange Active Sync). the security policy forces now WebOS to lock everytime it goes into standby... to unlock it, one has to enter a PIN each time.. this is really annoying... the policy restricts the locking settings to PIN and Password... do you Jan 14 01:48:36 think this could be overriden by a patch? Jan 14 01:48:41 but plays good with accel PuffTheMagic Jan 14 01:49:56 is this what the "Bypass PIN" patch does? or does this bypass the SIM PIN? Jan 14 01:50:35 eliasp, yes i believe thats exactly what the bypass pin is for Jan 14 01:50:38 *patch Jan 14 01:53:11 timepants: ok, great! so i just need AUPT and Palm Pre is "Enterprise Ready" for one of my customers... i think the managers using the Pres won't accept to use EPR/EMH each time there's a WebOS update ;) Jan 14 01:57:04 $10 for nesm eh Jan 14 01:57:33 NesEm* Jan 14 02:02:34 will the PDK make it possible to write new modules for the PIM applications (like GroupDAV/CalDAV support)? I'm actually quite a bit disappointed by WebOS only supporting plain IMAP but no open calendar and contacts standard..... Jan 14 02:05:20 will the Pixi run games like Oregon Trail or is it lacking the necessary hardware? Jan 14 02:06:19 i don't think the pixi can run the current 3d games out there Jan 14 02:07:07 is there some kind of warning or block to keep Pixi owners from purchasing the games from the App Catalog since it can't run them? Jan 14 02:08:06 not owning a pixi, i have no clue - but i am guessing yes ? Jan 14 02:08:23 hmmm ok. just trying to find out before my g/f decides to buy one. Jan 14 02:08:55 ah Jan 14 02:09:36 i kinda think the pixi owners got a bit of the shaft with the whole gaming stuff .. Jan 14 02:09:43 but it happens Jan 14 02:11:57 i don't think the current pre users got screwed by any means tho .. the complaints and bitterness i hear about the pre+ is just silly and ridiculous Jan 14 02:12:30 yeah I'm not upset about that at all Jan 14 02:13:45 I fully expect technology to progress Jan 14 02:13:57 yay for technology Jan 14 02:15:13 I'm not complaining nor bitter but I *do* want a Pre plus Jan 14 02:15:21 :) Jan 14 02:15:59 but only for the extra RAM and flash and better keyboard and slider Jan 14 02:16:08 I don't care about the center button removal Jan 14 02:18:54 sit and wait :p Jan 14 02:19:19 I'm first, I want a pixi gsm hehe Jan 14 02:19:31 I want scummVM on my pre :P Jan 14 02:20:21 I want everything on my pre Jan 14 02:20:23 lol Jan 14 02:20:46 version is gsm or cdma? Jan 14 02:20:54 *verison Jan 14 02:21:06 I have cdma Jan 14 02:21:15 I don't know how is written lol Jan 14 02:21:31 scummvm is in SDL Jan 14 02:21:54 its part of the webos-internals pdk but it doesnt have keybindings and some libs to make other games work. :P Jan 14 02:23:52 verizon is cdma, like sprint Jan 14 02:24:01 :( too bad Jan 14 02:24:42 only att is gsm in USA? Jan 14 02:24:50 sup Jan 14 02:25:09 tmobile gsm Jan 14 02:25:11 I think so Jan 14 02:25:20 tmo too? Jan 14 02:25:30 yeah tmobile is gsm Jan 14 02:25:56 whoops... bbiab Jan 14 02:25:56 hmm... so... no gsm pixi for importation to EU Jan 14 02:25:58 lol Jan 14 02:26:14 what is advantage of gsm ocer cdma Jan 14 02:26:39 rumor has it apple is getting pre and pixi Jan 14 02:26:51 jacues? apple Jan 14 02:26:53 you mean att? Jan 14 02:26:54 LOL I meant AT&T Jan 14 02:26:55 well one advantage is that you can do data/voice at the same time over gsm and you can't with the current implemenation of cdma in the US Jan 14 02:26:55 hi there, anybody happen to have a pre on the US t-mobile network? Jan 14 02:27:00 ahh, yeah they are Jan 14 02:27:11 announced CES i believe Jan 14 02:27:24 don't have a clue but for what I know there's only gsm here in europe Jan 14 02:27:38 palm will be on all excelct tmobile it seems, and even then we will have some sort of patch\unlock etc... Jan 14 02:27:58 doesn't gsm interfer with speakers Jan 14 02:28:17 yes Jan 14 02:28:23 cdma doesn't? Jan 14 02:28:24 lclarkjr: yeah they require special shielding on the speakers to stop that noise Jan 14 02:28:32 glorifiedg: no cdma doesn't interfere at all Jan 14 02:28:46 lol we're allways learning Jan 14 02:29:15 that's why I prefer cdma can't stand the speaker interference Jan 14 02:29:16 I tought every cell phone in the world interfered with speakers Jan 14 02:29:57 so anyone here working on Prewar feed issue Jan 14 02:29:58 if you didn't know cdma like me, you would tolerate ;) Jan 14 02:30:12 heh, cdma interferes with itself though Jan 14 02:30:14 so that's always fun Jan 14 02:30:16 making alien noises with two phones Jan 14 02:30:31 lol Jan 14 02:31:13 hmm never experienced alien noises from two cdma phones Jan 14 02:31:34 i thought the timing of GSM slots caused speaker noises to occur Jan 14 02:32:05 lclarkjr: it works Jan 14 02:32:18 never heard alien noises either .. Jan 14 02:32:21 well, i'm not sure, you might have to have them connected to eachother :P Jan 14 02:32:22 but that's just me Jan 14 02:32:28 (call one another) Jan 14 02:32:33 though the same probably happens at gsm Jan 14 02:32:35 on* Jan 14 02:32:49 oh, so it's just how the vocoders feedback into each other ? Jan 14 02:33:42 pre sucks Jan 14 02:33:55 I want to study... Jan 14 02:33:56 no Jan 14 02:34:03 I need to study Jan 14 02:34:11 hall: I get an http not found error after updating Jan 14 02:34:18 and I can't because I am always playing with it Jan 14 02:34:28 glorifiedg: why would all cell phone interfere with speakers ? Jan 14 02:34:38 all cell phones rather Jan 14 02:35:44 bpadalino|work: don't know... I just know gsm here in europe, so I tought every cellphone interfere with speakers Jan 14 02:35:53 ah Jan 14 02:35:57 yeah GSM devices do that Jan 14 02:36:09 CDMA DOESN'T! Jan 14 02:36:12 :P Jan 14 02:36:17 hall: I saw some others are reporting the same after updating to latest Preware and Package Manager Jan 14 02:36:27 i don't think 3G should do that, tho .. Jan 14 02:36:30 lol just my ignorance :p Jan 14 02:37:15 lclarkjr: do you have a '/media/cryptofs/apps/etc/ipkg/preware.conf' file? Jan 14 02:37:44 bpadalino: it just interfers when we are on a call Jan 14 02:38:30 3g (umts i believe) or regular gsm ? Jan 14 02:38:39 yeah lclark a lot reporting, my bro i noticed didnt have update for package Jan 14 02:38:40 and it depends on what phone you're using, some makes more noisy interference than others in speakers Jan 14 02:38:40 i did Jan 14 02:38:51 mines is fine he has error for feeds every time Jan 14 02:38:56 worked once under wifi Jan 14 02:39:00 hall: yes Jan 14 02:39:25 i would say its the package installer but will report in a little not too sure or haven't checked his logs Jan 14 02:39:42 regular GSM phones cause interference Jan 14 02:39:49 it's not a 3G specific thing Jan 14 02:40:04 hall: works fine if I turn off Preware feed Jan 14 02:40:47 bpadalino: I'm talking about speakers on tvs and such. gsm phone speakers are shielded against that noise Jan 14 02:41:08 i realize Jan 14 02:42:47 GSM's TDMA causes the interference Jan 14 02:43:31 right Jan 14 02:43:48 changing subject. I'm wondering if I connect my pre to a router that connect to the internet trough a US proxy do you think I can download all the apps? Jan 14 02:44:37 doesn't the Palm Profile determine your locale? Jan 14 02:46:03 hall: Rod just posted in Preware thread that he will be pushing an update to fix the problem Jan 14 02:47:56 Kyusaku: hmm I don't think do 'cause I'm in Portugal and my profile is like I'm in UK and I have less apps than real UK users... Jan 14 02:48:14 *not do I mean 'so' Jan 14 02:48:46 (I'm writing in my pre and d is next to s. sorry) Jan 14 02:49:33 I see Jan 14 02:50:37 bbiab Jan 14 02:51:11 anybody on here get there app accepted today? Jan 14 02:51:30 wait wrong channel Jan 14 02:51:33 sorry Jan 14 02:52:11 edektor: nope, they didn't accept Preware into the app catalog todyay :-( Jan 14 02:52:38 :( Jan 14 02:52:39 have you submitted it? Jan 14 02:53:11 no, I can't get past the self-certification step. Too many boxes I can't tick. Jan 14 02:53:59 and also how would they get the package-manager service on there? Jan 14 02:56:00 heya dudes.... i'm on my new netbook with win7, and i'm trying to run WOSQI, but it won't run!! Jan 14 02:56:07 edektor: embed the service into the application Jan 14 02:56:11 with a plugin Jan 14 02:56:14 instead of a service Jan 14 02:56:18 rwhitby: are you serious? do you think palm will accept it? Jan 14 02:56:23 can't tick because of your locale or because of how Preware works? Jan 14 02:56:30 the doctor runs like normal, but WOSQI no worky... and i've got th proper java version installed Jan 14 02:56:41 PuffTheMagic: with the PDK? Jan 14 02:56:57 edektor: i could do that right now with what we know Jan 14 02:57:29 but would they let it through? Jan 14 02:58:20 WOSQIi should work on 64-bit windows with no problems, right?? Jan 14 02:58:20 PuffTheMagic: no PDK stuff is being accepted Jan 14 02:58:24 don't understand what my problem is Jan 14 02:58:33 rwhitby: yet Jan 14 02:58:50 i was just saying it was possible Jan 14 02:58:56 to make it that way Jan 14 02:59:03 grndslm: yeah I use it on a Win7 64bit machine Jan 14 02:59:05 it possible to do it, but it won't be accepted **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jan 14 02:59:57 2010