**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 19 02:59:57 2010 Jan 19 03:00:00 if you take a palm profile created in the US on a Sprint phone, and use it on that same sprint phone anywhere in the world (via wifi), it works fine for full access. Jan 19 03:00:23 hm... Jan 19 03:00:53 if the profile doesn't allow access, then nothing you do from the phone will change that. Jan 19 03:01:37 strangely enough, my palm profile created with a croatian sim shows up as UK on the palm profile web... Jan 19 03:01:51 yep Jan 19 03:01:55 GSM, right? Jan 19 03:01:57 yes Jan 19 03:02:05 yet i see 0 apps in the catalog... which leads me to believe that there's something that's being done on the device itself... Jan 19 03:02:08 most notably Jan 19 03:02:29 ivanst: are you running GSM ROW firmware? Jan 19 03:02:37 the palm catalog app also checks the current sim card's MNC and MCC values Jan 19 03:03:20 yes, there are various things on the Pre that can further prevent access. Jan 19 03:03:22 rwhitby: i assume ROW = world ready... Jan 19 03:03:28 rest of world Jan 19 03:03:36 same as world ready Jan 19 03:03:42 aha, that'd probably be a yes... i'm using the german firmware Jan 19 03:03:50 to be completely honest... Jan 19 03:04:02 but there is nothing you can do from the Pre which will cause it to get more access than what the profile allows Jan 19 03:04:34 so the best you can hope for is normal GSM app catalog access, instead of the 0 apps you have now. You won't get Sprint catalog access. Jan 19 03:04:53 i don't care about sprint, really... i just want to get from 0 to something. anything will do, really :D Jan 19 03:05:07 ivanst: you don't like preware? :D Jan 19 03:05:31 zsoc: i want the damn facebook app back :-p the lengths people will go to to get their fix... Jan 19 03:05:42 ivanst: x.facebook.com? :> Jan 19 03:06:25 the one in the browser's bookmarks doesn't let you upload files directly, such as sharing images on your posts, etc... Jan 19 03:07:11 ivanst: if you doctor the pre, then activate on 3g with a local sim card, you should get GSM app catalog access Jan 19 03:07:38 (at least that works here in Australia) Jan 19 03:07:38 i mean, i have my own facebook client app that i'm planning to open source as an example of a bigger webOS application, it's just that FB api is a bit bungled so i can't really complete it at the moment... 'tis a long story :D Jan 19 03:07:47 * xcomp hates the way novaterm.exe goes into full cpu lock mode when the phone is disconnected Jan 19 03:08:08 ivanst: what is up with that anyways Jan 19 03:08:18 ivanst: sounds like a good story Jan 19 03:08:22 fb and their inability to come up with a decent api for once Jan 19 03:08:23 xcomp: why are you using windows? Jan 19 03:08:29 zsoc++ Jan 19 03:08:37 zsoc: because I'm at work, and that mess ends now ... I'm going hom Jan 19 03:08:39 *home Jan 19 03:08:49 What's the easiest way to stage additional -dev libs in our PDK? Jan 19 03:09:21 btw, apologies to all of you about the lunaprop question... i'm not evil, merely uneducated Jan 19 03:09:32 zsoc: add a new packages/foo/Makefile Jan 19 03:09:38 zsoc: (in our WIDK) Jan 19 03:10:17 er... Jan 19 03:10:41 What if I just want to stage a few headers for testing? Just install the package locally and cp them in there? Jan 19 03:11:06 zsoc: put it in nonworking/foo/Makefile and "make stage" Jan 19 03:11:09 ivanst: cool, I'd like to use client code for a non webos cleint someday Jan 19 03:11:28 particurly if you can do contact sync Jan 19 03:11:30 rwhitby: oh i see. is that a functionality of sb2? Jan 19 03:11:42 zsoc, follow packages/libpdl/Makefile for the simplest quickest easiest example Jan 19 03:11:51 egaudet: thank you Jan 19 03:13:17 tmzt: the client code of my facebook application? Jan 19 03:13:47 yeah, what license? Jan 19 03:14:14 working on X stuff for mobile Jan 19 03:14:16 egaudet: please feel free to add to http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Save_and_Restore Jan 19 03:14:20 tmzt: the i'll post it on github and don't really care license... Jan 19 03:14:34 cool, it's a future thing Jan 19 03:14:42 I didn't know the api was so open Jan 19 03:15:00 ivanst: if you post something without a license, by default no-one can use it. Jan 19 03:15:04 tmzt: i'm very frequently either here or on #webos, you can look me up whenever... Jan 19 03:15:17 thanks Jan 19 03:15:23 yeah, that's true Jan 19 03:16:09 * rwhitby bbl Jan 19 03:16:14 rwhitby: it's described as CC-By, even though the CC people frown upon using CC for code... Jan 19 03:16:56 besides, it's not code, it's poetry ;-) Jan 19 03:17:28 ivanst: alternatively, if you _really_ don't care, MIT it and be done with it :P Jan 19 03:18:00 i've been promising myself for the last ten years that i'll take a weekend off and compare licenses to find something suitable, but i just never do :-/ Jan 19 03:18:39 ivanst: the short of the long is, MIT means "do whatever you want with it and you can't sue me if it kills your dog" Jan 19 03:18:46 and it's short :p Jan 19 03:19:03 that sounds interesting... Jan 19 03:19:16 * ivanst adds reading MIT license to his TODO Jan 19 03:19:26 and now i'm going to sleep... it's 4:20am over here... Jan 19 03:19:33 ivanst: we use it a lot for patches... the idea being you can combine them into a 'patch pack' and not have to give tribute to each individual patch creator Jan 19 03:19:36 ivanst: peace Jan 19 03:20:04 i'm really interested in webos in general, i find it to be a nice eco-system for hacking around and generally having mobile fun Jan 19 03:20:30 MIT allows anyone to use it for any reason commercially or not (patches MIT allow Palm to be able to just grab and use if they so choose) Jan 19 03:20:45 egaudet: i suppose that's a better explanation ;) Jan 19 03:20:58 but the one with the dog sounds better, even though i'm a cat person :D Jan 19 03:21:26 ivanst: me too, that's why i said dog ;) Jan 19 03:22:44 man, the best thing about being a self employed conslutant is that you can take time to hack things you love till the wee hours and be at peace that your boss won't expect you to start working at 8am sharp Jan 19 03:22:57 rwhitby: I will hate something.. Jan 19 03:23:05 not sure what, but something Jan 19 03:23:18 ivanst: what do you do? Jan 19 03:24:05 ivanst: consulting: if you're not part of the solution, there's good money to be made in prolonging the problem. Jan 19 03:24:05 :P Jan 19 03:24:36 i'm a one-man microISV show... mostly highly specific things related to linux, multimedia, general kludgery... also had the experience of slaving in Siemens for 3 years so i also do java, oracle and assorted related faggotry Jan 19 03:25:03 basically, i'm the jack-of-all-trades who's had it up to here with working for The Man :-p Jan 19 03:25:14 ivanst: I find your ideas intriguing and wish to subscribe to your newsletter Jan 19 03:25:35 I approve of the java/oracle generalizations :> Jan 19 03:25:37 * destinal actually has done freelance consulting in the past and plans to again in the future someday Jan 19 03:25:45 my WHAT?! i'm not that kind of a consultant :D Jan 19 03:26:34 i was a network security consultant for several years Jan 19 03:26:38 * destinal currently works for "the man" Jan 19 03:26:52 * acydlord currently gets unemployment from the man Jan 19 03:27:07 you can see some of the things that i care to write about on my personal blog (ordecon.com), and i'd be happy to accept your friendship request on facebook (haha) Jan 19 03:27:24 acydlord: then you are in IDEAL situation for hackign Jan 19 03:27:38 s/kign/king/ Jan 19 03:27:38 destinal meant: acydlord: then you are in IDEAL situation for hacking Jan 19 03:27:39 destinal, i know Jan 19 03:27:56 * ivanst is really off to bed right now. i keep pressing the spacebar with my nose when i doze off Jan 19 03:28:06 see you all in 4-6 hours! Jan 19 03:28:06 especially considering that network security consulting is just a professional way to say hacking Jan 19 03:28:27 * destinal is full time corporate hacker. Jan 19 03:28:39 (aka security engineer) Jan 19 03:29:37 acydlord: so long as we're not restricting the term hacking to ONLY security hacking, i'm ok Jan 19 03:30:01 i want to be a corporate hacker, in the sense that i want a job in corporate america, where i do nothing, but it would cost them more to terminate me than to keep paying me Jan 19 03:30:12 acydlord: the office space dream Jan 19 03:30:30 destinal, i basically had that down when i worked for logitech Jan 19 03:30:45 hack the corporate structure rather than hack for a corporation Jan 19 03:30:46 i did very little, but i was a good puppet master for the support techs Jan 19 03:30:48 egaudet: I am about to go insane, you here? Jan 19 03:31:18 hi, updating preware 0.9.12 (and other apps) does not work anymore. some days ago i got Preware under 'Package Updates' i updated it but nothing happens preware still shows 0.9.12. The same with other apps e.g. ClassicNote. Whats wrong? Jan 19 03:31:40 Why in the world would a sed work if you output an "echo" of the command and then copy/paste it onto the command line.. but if you try to just execute it in the script, it doesn't work? Jan 19 03:32:19 sed -i -e 's|^VERSIONS = $VERSIONS|VERSIONS = $NEW_VERSIONS|' $PACKAGE/Makefile Jan 19 03:32:22 I might be here Jan 19 03:32:25 I might be sleeping Jan 19 03:32:31 ^^ doing that inside the for loop, doesn't work. Jan 19 03:32:31 escape? Jan 19 03:32:45 \$ Jan 19 03:33:20 but ' should not need that Jan 19 03:33:24 remove the ''s Jan 19 03:33:39 oh Jan 19 03:33:40 escape isn't needed Jan 19 03:33:45 ' ' will probably not expand the varaibles I think Jan 19 03:33:52 use " Jan 19 03:33:55 the variables are expanding... Jan 19 03:34:01 so what's not working Jan 19 03:34:24 there Jan 19 03:34:29 just used quotes Jan 19 03:34:45 or just don't use quotes Jan 19 03:34:50 I'm surprised there is no digg or revision 3 apps Jan 19 03:35:04 pfft Jan 19 03:35:04 sed -i -e /^.../.../ Jan 19 03:35:05 sryan-wirc, most of us are reddit fans i believe Jan 19 03:35:08 if you don't use quotes you have to \ the pipes I think Jan 19 03:35:13 I lvoe quotes. Jan 19 03:35:26 quotes are used for a reason ;) Jan 19 03:36:00 and why not just use the standard / instead of | Jan 19 03:36:02 :P Jan 19 03:36:32 hi Jan 19 03:36:35 wesley pipes, thats why Jan 19 03:37:03 I WAS using / Jan 19 03:37:06 any one having problem with pre central using webos 1.3.5.1? Jan 19 03:37:12 I switched it to pipes for fun Jan 19 03:37:27 switch to , for fun Jan 19 03:37:44 :( AUPT and EPR 2.0 are never going to work Jan 19 03:37:47 I quit Jan 19 03:37:48 switch to ()fork for fun Jan 19 03:37:52 mmmm.. Jan 19 03:38:03 * dBsooner loves 'make -j4 SUBDIRS=autopatch' Jan 19 03:38:18 stuff scrolls so fast I can't even read it. :) Jan 19 03:38:42 hmmm....? Jan 19 03:38:48 gotta condition your eyes to read it Jan 19 03:39:00 clear Jan 19 03:39:30 c0rk, you talking the precentral "app" or the precentral website? Jan 19 03:39:40 anybody using pre central with new webos version? Jan 19 03:40:10 maybe my question was too hard Jan 19 03:40:19 OH i guess I ran old EPR meh Jan 19 03:40:51 acydlord: I can read it if I hit PAUSE Jan 19 03:40:52 :) Jan 19 03:41:03 dBsooner, that doesnt count Jan 19 03:41:07 oh Jan 19 03:41:13 you have to be able to read make output like it's the matrix Jan 19 03:41:28 are the HP envy's dual quad's Jan 19 03:41:36 or just a quad Jan 19 03:41:41 i think just quad Jan 19 03:41:44 dang Jan 19 03:41:51 * dBsooner really wants to make -j8 Jan 19 03:42:18 lol, i have a quad/quad amd in my testing bay Jan 19 03:42:34 Are any MBP's dual quads/ Jan 19 03:42:46 Ok, I think I am literally crazy Jan 19 03:42:47 i dont think so Jan 19 03:42:49 quad/quad? wowsers.. make -j16 Jan 19 03:42:59 a dual quad would kill a laptop battery pretty quick Jan 19 03:43:22 acydlord: it's called throttling. :) Jan 19 03:43:51 someone left an MBP 17 unattended at paradise bakery today Jan 19 03:44:08 and you don't have a MBP 17 with you now? Jan 19 03:44:11 if macs didnt make me throw up in my mouth i would have shown them why you dont leave a laptop sitting around Jan 19 03:44:38 sell MBP, buy whatever Jan 19 03:44:45 i should have put my keyfob on the keyboard and closed the lid Jan 19 03:45:22 lol, store where a friend works got robbed of 11 MBPs they had on display Jan 19 03:45:47 everyone was like "why would you steal a mac, no one can afford a $3k computer" and i was like thats exactly the point you morons Jan 19 03:46:15 that quote is beyond stupid Jan 19 03:46:16 they seriously thought that crooks fenced those things at full price Jan 19 03:51:03 Hmm i getting installed failed errors from catalog Jan 19 03:55:05 destinal: ping Jan 19 03:57:04 PuffTheMagic: syn|ack|psh Jan 19 03:58:34 PuffTheMagic: hello? Jan 19 03:59:57 PuffTheMagic: syn|ack|psh|evil (maybe you're filtering out packets without the evil bit set) Jan 19 04:00:25 * destinal gets bored, goes to grab beer Jan 19 04:00:35 bbi2min Jan 19 04:04:38 * ecates needs to learn javascript before he can even ask intelligent questions. Jan 19 04:05:12 ecates: some people look at a problem and say, I know, I'll use javascript. now they have two problems. Jan 19 04:05:27 PuffTheMagic: hey you're alive :p Jan 19 04:05:35 HA! Jan 19 04:06:00 having said that, I still mean to learn more of it myself Jan 19 04:06:33 I'm trying to wade through the camera app. It hurts my head. Jan 19 04:06:40 and actually if you check out good advice like Douglas Crockford's javascript: the good parts book, it's actually a good language. Jan 19 04:06:49 if you avoid the evil bits Jan 19 04:07:08 Evil bits give me hives. Jan 19 04:07:10 ecates: unfortunately a lot of the palm apps are written as if they were java apps in some ways Jan 19 04:07:49 destinal: lol Jan 19 04:07:53 what about stty Jan 19 04:08:02 i run it on my lappy i get no cols,rows Jan 19 04:08:13 and i dont get anything in terminus Jan 19 04:08:15 PuffTheMagic: stty -a Jan 19 04:08:20 PuffTheMagic: did you get that icon I did a while ago? Jan 19 04:08:22 sorry about forgetting the all important switch Jan 19 04:08:25 oh -a Jan 19 04:08:26 mm Jan 19 04:08:29 lets see Jan 19 04:08:49 I'm betting terminus incorrectly thinks its 80 Jan 19 04:09:30 notice if you drag an xterm wider and then run stty -a again, the columns are different? Jan 19 04:10:20 you are correct Jan 19 04:10:33 it still says 24x80 Jan 19 04:10:33 let me see if I can find that call Jan 19 04:10:39 >.> Jan 19 04:11:04 oh it's an ioctl Jan 19 04:11:08 *nags PuffTheMagic* Jan 19 04:11:17 destinal: the thing I thought you would hate would be conf files for what saverestoremgr can do, rather than script Jan 19 04:11:20 I half remembered earlier Jan 19 04:12:05 CoolMatty: sup Jan 19 04:12:10 oh yeah Jan 19 04:12:12 too small Jan 19 04:12:15 PuffTheMagic: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/41063/terminusico.png I can put a bigger hashmark/~ like Terminal if you like, but I think that works? Jan 19 04:12:17 not really waht i was looking for Jan 19 04:12:20 you asked for an icon :p Jan 19 04:12:20 oh Jan 19 04:12:23 too small? Jan 19 04:12:31 it's 64x64 like you said lol Jan 19 04:12:34 i asked Templarian for an icon ;) Jan 19 04:12:37 I can do different sizes :p Jan 19 04:12:49 oh well Jan 19 04:12:55 i just didnt like the icon Jan 19 04:12:57 anybody know where i can find the code for the boot images? I know where the .pngs are located.... im looking for the .css that tells the Pre where to look for the images! Jan 19 04:13:11 * rwhitby sees a photo of a Pre, not an icon Jan 19 04:13:28 I guess that's true :p Jan 19 04:13:37 still, coulda said that :p Jan 19 04:13:40 I figured you'd died Jan 19 04:14:16 * Templarian doesn't see an icon. Jan 19 04:15:01 * Templarian goes back to working on his accounting homework and will try and make one tomorrow at work. Jan 19 04:15:12 PuffTheMagic: like, I think this: ioctl(slave,TIOCSWINSZ,&spawn_data->window_size); Jan 19 04:15:14 PuffTheMagic: what's the time frame for the release of this app? Jan 19 04:15:20 destinal: oh wait Jan 19 04:15:22 i forgot Jan 19 04:15:34 i think i am running it at 24x80 Jan 19 04:15:35 lol Jan 19 04:15:39 let me set it to something else Jan 19 04:15:39 haha Jan 19 04:15:42 ok Jan 19 04:17:15 PuffTheMagic: similar to how stty uses ioctls to set window size http://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-release-5-0/src/bin/stty/stty.c Jan 19 04:17:37 but maybe terminus does that already Jan 19 04:17:40 yeah it didnt change Jan 19 04:18:08 basically on start and on change of size or orientation it should call the ioctld Jan 19 04:18:13 s/tld/tl/ Jan 19 04:18:27 I don't think I've ever had a successful doctor run on the first try or without recovery mode Jan 19 04:18:28 ~botsmack Jan 19 04:18:41 hmm, infobot is MIA Jan 19 04:19:05 * Templarian feels it's because of all the abuse. Jan 19 04:19:12 it's a holiday destinal leave him alone! Jan 19 04:19:31 PuffTheMagic: probably terminus is setting 80 by whatever using said ioctls on start Jan 19 04:19:45 but you need to make sure it has a proper tty for all this to work too, I believe Jan 19 04:20:12 * PuffTheMagic thinks destinal should look at terminus source Jan 19 04:20:15 * destinal should get the code Jan 19 04:20:21 :P Jan 19 04:20:52 its on git Jan 19 04:20:58 PuffTheMagic: I guess I need to figure out evas and get it running on my ubuntu box for one Jan 19 04:21:50 xcomp: u fix them elf libs yet? Jan 19 04:22:03 PuffTheMagic: as a quick hack, try running: stty columns 63 Jan 19 04:22:06 in your terminus window Jan 19 04:22:14 see if it starts magically behaving Jan 19 04:24:15 anybody know where i can find the code for the boot images? I know where the .pngs are located.... im looking for the .css that tells the Pre where to look for the images! Jan 19 04:25:36 Does the facebook app give notifications? Jan 19 04:27:35 rwhitby: something wrong with preware Jan 19 04:27:53 ipkg update fails due to invalid gzip magic Jan 19 04:28:17 Robi_: ... Jan 19 04:28:23 Robi_: did you use the proper ritual gzip sacrifice? Jan 19 04:28:58 ya killed the virgin, still, wtf Jan 19 04:29:10 Robi_: sigh, the magic doesn't work like it used to Jan 19 04:29:21 this is after I updated 0.9.18 Jan 19 04:29:33 Robi_: have you tried ipkg update from command line? Jan 19 04:29:41 * rwhitby waits for Robi_ to give the rest of a high quality bug report .... Jan 19 04:29:42 err ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/app update Jan 19 04:30:07 rwhitby: ah. I defer. :) Jan 19 04:30:21 working on getting better access than terminal Jan 19 04:30:59 Robi_: so all feeds do that, do they? Jan 19 04:31:33 i tried turning off preware feed in preware, still tries it ;-/ Jan 19 04:31:45 there is no such thing as a preware feed Jan 19 04:32:18 the first one in the list Jan 19 04:32:20 of feeds Jan 19 04:32:27 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/ Jan 19 04:32:47 no preware feed there Jan 19 04:33:12 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=tree;f=services/ipkgservice/feeds Jan 19 04:33:15 no preware feed there either Jan 19 04:33:18 ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/app update Jan 19 04:33:26 ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps update right? Jan 19 04:33:31 what's this 'preware' feed you're referring to? Jan 19 04:33:46 ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/app update Jan 19 04:33:56 destinal: i cant tell a difference with it set Jan 19 04:34:03 that the first link preware shows it's getting before it fails Jan 19 04:34:20 PuffTheMagic: if you set it and then stty -a does it seem to have taken? Jan 19 04:34:20 Robi_: why do you have a feed called 'preware' ? Jan 19 04:35:01 sorry it's optware Jan 19 04:35:27 aparently I can't paste from novaterm Jan 19 04:35:30 but same issue Jan 19 04:35:54 ok, optware. what is the URL? Jan 19 04:36:08 it tries to inflate the packages.gz from the palm-beta feed aparently Jan 19 04:36:22 destinal: yeah it takes affect and maybe you are right its better Jan 19 04:36:54 top lookas good for the first time Jan 19 04:37:13 removed palm-beta, now its failing on optware/all Jan 19 04:37:39 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/palm-beta/Packages.gz uncompresses fine for me Jan 19 04:37:40 invalid gzip magic Jan 19 04:38:29 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/optware/all/Packages.gz uncompresses fine too Jan 19 04:39:00 gzip v1.11.2 from busybox Jan 19 04:39:40 egaudet: did we decide to use aupt for unreleased webOS version feeds in the future? Jan 19 04:41:11 looks like now we have Extreme Power Saving mode with 1.3.x Jan 19 04:41:33 that's why my batt is good for 4 days on standby Jan 19 04:42:03 Robi_: If I have great signal, my phone barely uses 5% in 8 hours. Jan 19 04:42:18 If I don't get a ton of e-mails, sms etc. Jan 19 04:42:55 ideally I want to test at least one more time Jan 19 04:43:00 hola! Como esta? Jan 19 04:43:08 egaudet: whatcha making? Jan 19 04:43:31 just more aupt testing Jan 19 04:43:45 ird, yah amazing improvement Jan 19 04:43:53 egaudet: aupt? Jan 19 04:44:06 btw, whoever made the recent update to preware, I love it... Jan 19 04:44:08 rwhitby: well I dunno where else to look atm, preware wont even show availabel packages so I can search and install stuff Jan 19 04:44:20 Auto-Update Patch Technology Jan 19 04:44:36 now if it hangs during startup I know what feed is the culprit, no more "lets try this one... no... ok... this one" style debugging Jan 19 04:44:53 Robi_: does wget work from the command line on your Pre for those files? Jan 19 04:45:29 cryptk|work: you're welcome Jan 19 04:45:49 * cryptk|work thanks rwhitby Jan 19 04:46:00 rwhitby: yes Jan 19 04:46:09 heh - someone in the forum is trying to tell me that America is sparsely populated. Jan 19 04:46:16 lol Jan 19 04:46:19 so I showed them http://www.ga.gov.au/image_cache/GA6264.gif :-) Jan 19 04:46:22 gunzip gives invalid magic Jan 19 04:46:32 anybody know where i can find the code for the boot images? I know where the .pngs are located.... im looking for the .css that tells the Pre where to look for the images! Jan 19 04:46:49 Robi_: wget one of the files, and give me the md5sum Jan 19 04:46:56 (before gunzipping) Jan 19 04:47:31 rwhitby: Packages.gz from optware ends in a4e9 Jan 19 04:47:54 anyone figure out how to copy/paste from novaterm? Jan 19 04:48:01 $ md5sum Packages.gz Jan 19 04:48:02 19f4d926195ddbe75c75a9b3082ec9dd Packages.gz Jan 19 04:48:09 from optware/all Jan 19 04:48:31 Robi_: so either wget or your network is corrupting those packets ... Jan 19 04:48:47 wow wtf Jan 19 04:48:59 Robi_: try it from a desktop to compare Jan 19 04:50:03 is there a web based one? that will take URLs? Jan 19 04:50:18 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/optware/all/Packages.gz Jan 19 04:50:30 I have an md5sum different from either of yourse Jan 19 04:50:51 oh? Jan 19 04:50:52 $ wget http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/optware/all/Packages.gz; md5sum Packages.gz Jan 19 04:50:52 b9dcf2ba71aac2affaaa47341256b9f0 Packages.gz Jan 19 04:51:15 o k Jan 19 04:51:27 ??? Jan 19 04:51:36 i ran mine again same thing.. 901d.....a4e9 Jan 19 04:52:36 retrieved it again, same sum Jan 19 04:52:49 ok, this is bizarro world? Jan 19 04:52:51 g'night ya'll Jan 19 04:53:16 ipkg.preware.org 68.87.91.199:80 Jan 19 04:53:17 heh, autobuilder run Jan 19 04:53:21 current is b9dcf2ba71aac2affaaa47341256b9f0 Packages.gz Jan 19 04:53:21 nite dBsooner Jan 19 04:53:28 ah, forgot autobuilder Jan 19 04:53:40 I'm good then Jan 19 04:53:41 so I match destinal Jan 19 04:54:57 went to tmp did it again, same md5 for me as before Jan 19 04:55:19 Robi_: did you make sure you removed anything there? Jan 19 04:55:35 ok turning off wifi Jan 19 04:55:42 Robi_: aha Jan 19 04:55:50 Robi_: you could be behind a captive portal or something Jan 19 04:55:52 ya wget wont voerwrite an existing file Jan 19 04:55:55 did you try running less on the file? Jan 19 04:56:17 oh my Jan 19 04:56:25 it's a comcast activation page Jan 19 04:56:26 wtf Jan 19 04:56:37 infobot, my friend! Jan 19 04:56:46 ~botsnack Jan 19 04:56:46 aw, gee, egaudet Jan 19 04:56:48 ~botsnack Jan 19 04:56:55 ~hola Jan 19 04:57:00 what the hey, infobot pm'd me Jan 19 04:57:03 ~status Jan 19 04:57:03 Since Tue Jan 19 04:49:42 2010, there have been 0 modifications, 0 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 0 commands. I have been awake for 7m 21s this session, and currently reference 116749 factoids. I'm using about 15668 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 16.92/1.54 child 0.27/0.11 Jan 19 04:57:10 know your bounds infobot! Jan 19 04:57:32 egaudet: if you /msg him he'll msg back but I've never seen him do it at random Jan 19 04:57:39 hello Jan 19 04:57:47 destinal, I think it was the double botsnack Jan 19 04:57:59 he's like "someone already said that 3 seconds ago" Jan 19 04:58:01 lol Jan 19 04:58:07 Robi_: well that would definitely explain your invalid magic. it was looking for a gzip but it was html Jan 19 04:58:13 nod Jan 19 04:58:20 * TimRiker checks in on the bot. had to restart it. Jan 19 04:58:38 4:57 Robi_: rwhitby: something wrong with preware <- heh Jan 19 04:58:46 my wired net is fine, the wifi is stuck going to the comcast page which doesn't make a whole lotta sense, but let me reboot the router Jan 19 04:59:05 got a palm pre for dev. the phone was activated, and had a profile, I partial deleted, and the profile is gone, what are my options now? Jan 19 04:59:06 rwhitby: well, something was wrong with preware on a captive portal :) Jan 19 04:59:07 rwhitby: right on! symptom ;] oh yae and evdo works fine. ;] Jan 19 04:59:14 your modem your ap? Jan 19 04:59:20 tmzt: no Jan 19 04:59:26 goof Jan 19 04:59:27 TimRiker: dunno if I've said it lately, but thanks for infobot Jan 19 04:59:28 good Jan 19 04:59:39 egaudet, yeah, the bot with pmesg if it already replied to the same in public. Jan 19 04:59:40 is ifnobot and apt the same db? Jan 19 04:59:48 ~infobot is awesome Jan 19 04:59:53 ~~~~ Jan 19 04:59:54 rwhitby, yw! :) Jan 19 04:59:54 ARGH!!! STOP IT destinal!!! Jan 19 05:00:14 tmzt, apt, ibot, infobot and purl are all the same bot instance. Jan 19 05:00:28 TimRiker, wow, long time.. Jan 19 05:00:42 * TimRiker didn't mean to imply that tmzt is a bot... :) Jan 19 05:00:42 TimRiker: so you admit tmzt is a bot, then? Jan 19 05:00:47 tmzt is a bot? Jan 19 05:00:54 that explains a lot ... ;-) Jan 19 05:01:06 I think TimRiker is a bot Jan 19 05:01:14 now that might be true. Jan 19 05:01:23 no, just long running irssi instance Jan 19 05:01:25 jacques: actually, infobot is the real person and TimRiker is the bot Jan 19 05:01:31 * TimRiker is in Shanghai at the moment and sometimes wishes he were a bot. Jan 19 05:01:46 TimRiker: hey, close timezone :-) Jan 19 05:01:48 TimRiker: how is hotspot thing going? Jan 19 05:02:20 testing vphone with android 2.0 and bluetooth/wifi(AP) tethering working ok. Jan 19 05:02:41 somebody was asking about a serial server they coild address over wifi, would your device work as usb host? Jan 19 05:02:50 course I might get smacked for mentioning that other os. ah well. Jan 19 05:02:55 vphone? Jan 19 05:03:17 tmzt, yes. it works as a usb (1.1 only) host or a usb 2.0 client. Jan 19 05:03:21 TimRiker: android is cool too. I have an android dev phone 1 Jan 19 05:03:24 http://saygus.com/vphone Jan 19 05:03:47 hmm, ok Jan 19 05:03:49 anyone, have the profile popping up on my pre, but have no network connection, what are my options? Jan 19 05:03:56 (and iphone) .. PuffTheMagic thinks I am a traitor for considering an N900 too Jan 19 05:04:03 ok all beter now Jan 19 05:04:27 b9f0 Jan 19 05:04:55 looks like a droid clone Jan 19 05:05:31 Robi_: cool Jan 19 05:05:43 jacques, yeah, hear that before. :) developed entirely independantly, but certainly there are some similarities. Jan 19 05:06:20 jacques: we need to get http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale8x/exhibitor/webos-internals update, cause now even the app catalog apps are in Preware ;-) Jan 19 05:06:21 vphone does what the droid does, plus tethering, usb host, and video calling which the droid doesn't. Jan 19 05:06:45 did you tell us what wifi chipset? Jan 19 05:06:50 can anyone help, just bought a pre and need to get it working to test some apps... Jan 19 05:06:59 ok now I need to figure out how to get lighty to proxy/redirect/lb a URL to multiple destinations round robin Jan 19 05:07:06 marvell 68w8787 iirc Jan 19 05:07:10 anybody know where i can find the code for the boot images? I know where the .pngs are located.... im looking for the .css that tells the Pre where to look for the images! Jan 19 05:07:20 TimRiker: ah, you're CTO of the company that makes this android phone? you know you want to send us some to port other operating systems onto.. :) Jan 19 05:07:43 libertas? maybe that could help with Pre ap Jan 19 05:07:46 destinal, working on some bootloader changes to help support that right now. :) Jan 19 05:07:48 what firmware? Jan 19 05:08:34 looks like a cool device at any rate Jan 19 05:08:59 capacitive ts which N900 doesn't have. Jan 19 05:09:02 destinal, thx! trying to get over the last hurtles to get it to market. :) Jan 19 05:09:04 wait, 86w? Jan 19 05:09:34 destinal, touch screen is 4 point multitouch, but the android stack is not yet supporting that. Jan 19 05:10:02 TimRiker: anyone registered vphone-internals.org yet? Jan 19 05:10:06 rwhitby, want me to email the guy and see if we can modify the desc? (they may have printed stuff already) Jan 19 05:10:28 wo lots of 24 tonight Jan 19 05:10:31 TimRiker: I heard the version of the droid in the UK does multitouch throughout, wonder if they have their own custom android modifications Jan 19 05:11:02 TimRiker, that sounds pretty cool - will it only be marketed outside US ? Jan 19 05:11:36 tmzt, sry, mind fry. does 88w8686 look better? Jan 19 05:11:47 jacques: no biggie Jan 19 05:12:11 rwhitby, heh. not to my knowledge, but I guess it would not surprise me. Jan 19 05:12:22 yep, much. what firmware? Jan 19 05:12:40 rwhitby, BTW any thoughts on demoing webos-internals software at the booth - I'm kinda afraid to use my personal phone Jan 19 05:12:43 destinal, I've heard that too, but I've not tested out a Milestone (UK Droid) yet. Jan 19 05:12:59 it does, pantent issue Jan 19 05:13:03 in us Jan 19 05:13:23 tmzt: a patent issue that doesn't seem to be bothering palm at all :) Jan 19 05:13:33 yeah. it's a silly patent though, there are clearly many multitouch inplementations that preceed the iphone. Jan 19 05:13:57 did palm license multi-touch from apple? Jan 19 05:13:59 TimRiker: yeah, there was a huge multitouch technology demo given years before iphone (where jobs was probably taking notes) Jan 19 05:14:14 jacques: no, and apple threatened to sue but did not. no idea why not. Jan 19 05:14:17 or they just reminded appl of their giant patent portfolio Jan 19 05:14:28 I bet apple is infringing on lots of palm patents Jan 19 05:14:39 jacques, word is that palm did not license it. no idea if that's really true or not. Jan 19 05:14:42 jacques: good question about the phone - we should get Rick-home to ask Sprint Jan 19 05:14:57 palm said "we have the means with which to defend ourselves" Jan 19 05:15:08 and apple said "oh, um, never mind" Jan 19 05:15:25 I'd expect a few Treo patents are pretty broad Jan 19 05:15:31 rwhitby, that would be cool - you probably know how things get handled at these events Jan 19 05:15:44 which is why we use a dead slug for ppl to handle Jan 19 05:15:45 destinal: that's his style (xerox :) Jan 19 05:15:56 jacques: yeah, don't want to use your own phone Jan 19 05:16:19 the nature of demoing on the phone is that ppl pretty much have to touch/hold it Jan 19 05:16:36 question for y'all Jan 19 05:17:05 where are you demoing? Jan 19 05:17:09 TimRiker, someone was asking me about multi-touch patents the other day and I said "well, my palm is using multi-touch..." I guess that wasn't a good example :-) Jan 19 05:17:27 I am parsing the IPKG feeds...the update time is a huge number...but it doesn't seem to be ticks...what is it? Jan 19 05:17:31 jacques, heh Jan 19 05:17:33 TimRiker, will be at SCALE (southern california linux expo) Jan 19 05:17:51 http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale8x/ Jan 19 05:17:59 it will be like my fifth year there (wow) Jan 19 05:19:02 webOSroundup: seconds since the unix epoch Jan 19 05:19:09 thanks! Jan 19 05:20:39 jacques, looks like fun. I've been meaning to get to SCaLE sometime but not yet made it. :/ Jan 19 05:21:50 what else is webos running on? Is palm licensing it to anyone? how much is available as open source? Jan 19 05:22:39 TimRiker, it's very fun - very grassroots - tho getting bigger by leaps and bounds every year Jan 19 05:23:59 Palm Pre is Activated need to ByPass profile, will Meta-Doctor do the trick? Jan 19 05:24:33 pre does not have network connection... Jan 19 05:25:37 I wish webos would run on something like this: http://www.sdgsystems.com/index.php one of these ruggedized platforms Jan 19 05:26:08 they are starting to run android, but ?? ppl are supposed to write their apps in java? Jan 19 05:26:22 I prefer the webos userspace by far Jan 19 05:26:51 no, javascript is better :) Jan 19 05:26:57 although native is nice Jan 19 05:27:00 finally Jan 19 05:27:16 TimRiker: webos is Palm only and not open Jan 19 05:28:29 of course the ideal would be 100% open and as functional as the current closed stuff Jan 19 05:28:37 I just haven't seen that Jan 19 05:29:17 which is why I like Mer, now if gpu drivers would cease to be an issue Jan 19 05:30:22 i'm a WebOS developer an urgently need help with getting my pre working via wifi... anybody can anyone here helP? Jan 19 05:30:30 jacques, yes, android userspace is painful, and for the most part it's java only. however, it's popular and almost open source. (just like it's almost linux and almost java) Jan 19 05:31:03 LoneStar: yes, Meta-Doctor is what you need Jan 19 05:31:06 Apache 2 license Jan 19 05:31:43 s3c6440 would be great but that depends on the baseband interface Jan 19 05:31:56 and still sgx chip I think, though the 2d is quite nice Jan 19 05:32:58 dallashigh: so if the phone is activated and need to get passed the profile crap, it will work? Jan 19 05:33:54 LoneStar99: if the phone is activated on a valid cellular account, you don't need the meta-doctor. just use the normal doctor and start from scratch. Jan 19 05:34:19 LoneStar: have Sprint re-provision your data. that should fix your issues Jan 19 05:35:13 the phone came activated, and had a dudes profile came installed, i mistakenly did a partial delete of info, and no I get the profile popup Jan 19 05:35:32 LoneStar99: so create a new profile with it Jan 19 05:35:48 i have no connection to anything Jan 19 05:36:37 then you need to fix that as dallashigh said first Jan 19 05:36:49 (assuming you're in the US and with Sprint) Jan 19 05:37:53 Interesting: http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/513 Jan 19 05:37:56 rwhitby: LoneStar likely refers to the US state of Texas, "The Lone Star state" Jan 19 05:38:48 jacques: ^^ fso ticket Jan 19 05:39:13 what is it? Jan 19 05:39:35 the phone is with sprint, but i do not have a sprint account, just bought the phone for dev purposes. what are my options... Jan 19 05:39:40 I love wIRC Jan 19 05:40:06 LoneStar: when you said the phone was activated, did you mean that it had a Palm Profile on it? Jan 19 05:40:23 rwhitby, looked at it - I don't suppose there's an answer yet :-) Jan 19 05:40:34 LoneStar: because typically "activated" means that it is active on a cellular account Jan 19 05:40:35 it had one from the previous, user, but I accidently deleted it Jan 19 05:40:59 LoneStar: then yes, you need to run Meta-Doctor Jan 19 05:41:22 LoneStar99: meta-doctor Jan 19 05:41:23 how do I install Meta-Doctor Jan 19 05:41:37 LoneStar99: there's a couple of threads on PreCentral about it Jan 19 05:41:53 LoneStar: If I may ask, what city are you located in? Jan 19 05:42:15 LoneStar99: or wait for Jason or PuffTheMagic to finish their independendently developed Java tools Jan 19 05:42:20 i only have what came with the phone, nothing else. will i need a cable or something Jan 19 05:43:39 roundrock Jan 19 05:45:05 in between locations right now Jan 19 05:45:08 destinal: ping Jan 19 05:45:20 LoneStar: You will need a USB cable. Jan 19 05:45:48 dallashigh: will the cable that came with palm fine? Jan 19 05:46:11 yes Jan 19 05:47:51 my typing is so freaking bad... mind is racing Jan 19 05:52:18 rwhitby: pong Jan 19 05:52:53 destinal: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Save_and_Restore Jan 19 05:53:04 destinal: ideas for what directory to use for the scripts? Jan 19 05:55:05 hmm.. either /var or /media/internal Jan 19 05:55:15 well some directory under either Jan 19 05:56:03 dallashigh: do you think if I get a sprint pre-paid plan, I will be able to use this phone as intended? Jan 19 05:56:04 or I guess we could put it on the rootfs and postinst stuff there but I know you said you're worried about some rw related conflicts Jan 19 05:56:37 destinal: I don't think the scripts can be under /media/internal Jan 19 05:56:43 LoneStar: No. Sprint does not allow the Pre on pre-paid plans. Jan 19 05:56:44 I was thinking where under /var Jan 19 05:57:13 destinal: the saved files go in /media/internal - I'm referring to the scripts Jan 19 05:57:18 LoneStar: If you are ever in the Dallas area, I would be willing to Meta-Doctor my Pre and trade it for yours, assuming yours is in good condition. Jan 19 05:57:20 /var/local/saverestore? Jan 19 05:57:56 just got it today, the dude used it for 3 weeks Jan 19 05:58:24 destinal: so widk will mount that as /usr/local/saverestore Jan 19 05:58:42 oh, that's where the bindmount is? hmm Jan 19 05:58:47 is that an issue? Jan 19 05:59:51 LoneStar: PM me on PreCentral if you ever make it up this way. Jan 19 06:00:00 destinal: dunno yet Jan 19 06:00:05 you could just do /var/svc/org.webosinternals.saverestore Jan 19 06:00:19 * dallashigh has to remember that $ does not go to the end of the line in all text editors Jan 19 06:01:04 jacques: ping Jan 19 06:01:07 dallashigh: if I had the dudes, profile earlier, could see all his apps, contacts etc... and tried to use wifi but could not get online, what could have been the problem? Jan 19 06:01:24 ctrl-E ;] Jan 19 06:03:15 rwhitby, pong Jan 19 06:04:19 jacques: can you send the request for demo units (including the link to the blurb) to Rick, so that he can pass on to Sprint? Jan 19 06:04:57 rwhitby: standardizing on a new generic service resource directory in /var like /var/svc or /var/service/ and adding app id as the directory name might be a useful standard Jan 19 06:05:00 rwhitby, sure thing - got contact info for Rick ? Jan 19 06:05:44 s/app id/service id/ Jan 19 06:05:44 destinal meant: rwhitby: standardizing on a new generic service resource directory in /var like /var/svc or /var/service/ and adding service id as the directory name might be a useful standard Jan 19 06:05:51 destinal: yeah, good idea. Jan 19 06:07:42 destinal: /var/svc/org.webosinternals.saverestore it is then Jan 19 06:07:50 rwhitby: cool. Jan 19 06:08:17 yawn, getting late here and that whole work thing tomorrow. good night Jan 19 06:09:35 Can G "git add [directory]" to include the directory and all of its contents? Jan 19 06:09:39 *Can I Jan 19 06:09:50 yep Jan 19 06:09:53 git add . Jan 19 06:10:04 Ah. That makes sense. Thanks, Rod! Jan 19 06:12:28 dallashigh: my wifi died... on pre was connecting to wifi but would get "Network Error", have something to do with not having a carrier on phone? Jan 19 06:13:29 LoneStar: The Pre must have gotten mucked up by the partial erase. Jan 19 06:13:56 dallashigh: this was before the partial erase Jan 19 06:14:29 LoneStar: Wifi should still work even without cellular service. Jan 19 06:15:43 i only found one tutorial on meta-doctor, but does not mention about USB etc.... Jan 19 06:16:36 Meta-Doctor itself does not require a USB cable. Jan 19 06:16:58 But to flash the resulting firmware, you will use the USB cable. Jan 19 06:17:17 LoneStar99: have you used the webOS Doctor before? Jan 19 06:17:40 never, just got this device 2 hours ago Jan 19 06:19:55 LoneStar99: you've never had a webOS device before? Jan 19 06:20:20 nope, only the emulator Jan 19 06:20:30 rwhitby: not like there have been many of them around :) Jan 19 06:20:52 can someone tell me how to use oprofile correctly? despite --start and --stop/--dump opreport claims there's no data :(. Jan 19 06:21:04 would not have gotten the pre, but need to test some accelarometer and other features for apps Jan 19 06:21:14 LoneStar99: ok, you need to learn how to use the standard webOS doctor first - look at palm.com/rom for that Jan 19 06:22:38 ok downlaoding webOS doc Jan 19 06:24:31 LoneStar99: once you've learnt how to webOS Doctor, then you use meta-doctor to create a modified version of the webOS doctor, and then run through the process again using that modified version Jan 19 06:24:55 * dallashigh will BRB. Jan 19 06:27:32 is the following the best link for meta-doctor: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:MetaDoctor Jan 19 06:32:37 thats so meta Jan 19 06:32:56 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Clusterhead.jpg Jan 19 06:34:13 hello Jan 19 06:34:30 what is the event of slider open Jan 19 06:35:08 assign the star trek tricorder soundwav to that, Jan 19 06:35:20 ejeet. Jan 19 06:35:30 or litesaber. Jan 19 06:42:20 another set of Palm Pres on 24 Jan 19 06:56:45 LoneStar: That's the home of Meta-Doctor Jan 19 07:03:06 dallashigh: ok thanks Jan 19 07:03:27 downloading, debugging app, and falling asleep Jan 19 07:14:34 I searched but didn't find... having trouble after updating preware, only shows a few apps as being installed. and no patches. reinstalled with preware-bootstrap, same problem. Jan 19 07:17:34 hmagoo: versions for everything please Jan 19 07:19:38 1.3.5.1, latest for preware and PMS - .9.18 .9.34 Jan 19 07:20:16 those are among the 10 apps showing as installed.. Jan 19 07:22:31 hmagoo: did you recently upgrade to 1.3.5.x ? Jan 19 07:23:17 rwhitby: yeah when it came out I think and I thought it worked ok after that Jan 19 07:24:04 hmagoo: so you ran EMH after that? Jan 19 07:24:06 rwhitby: I know I had palm-catalog in preware before I had any problems.. Jan 19 07:24:51 rwhitby: is regular webos doctor suppose to do anything, or was it just so i can learn how to use meta-doctor? Jan 19 07:25:03 LoneStar99: it will reflash your phone Jan 19 07:25:43 rwhitby: when I upgraded to the version that moved the apps to /media/internal I did run EMH. it was working after that Jan 19 07:26:09 hmagoo: dunno then. what does "ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps list_installed" say ? Jan 19 07:26:21 rwhitby: the next button is greyed out, when it mentions to connect my phone, which is connected Jan 19 07:27:20 LoneStar99: did you put it in recovery mode? Jan 19 07:27:44 rwhitby: only shows the ten that preware shows. Jan 19 07:29:04 hmagoo: ok, very strange. Jan 19 07:29:22 hmagoo: is it possible that there were background app catalog app updates happening at the same time as Preware installs? Jan 19 07:29:25 what is recovery mode? can't do anything on phone, b/c of the profile screen Jan 19 07:29:40 rwhitby: there is a thread on precentral alluding to similar Jan 19 07:29:47 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/How_To_Recover Jan 19 07:29:56 hmagoo: oh, where's the thread? Jan 19 07:30:05 rwhitby: yes that is possible. Jan 19 07:30:46 rwhitby: hang on Jan 19 07:33:11 rwhitby: http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/221299-preware-dead-after-1-3-5-a-2.html Jan 19 07:33:24 off to watch 24 have a good night. Jan 19 07:34:00 hmagoo: I don't see any posts in that thread with similar symptoms Jan 19 07:34:29 most of it is people using an old version of wosqi Jan 19 07:38:09 Hello Jan 19 07:39:56 rwhitby : you use remotewin at all? Jan 19 07:40:24 jmya_BED: no Jan 19 07:41:24 ok just wondering because the server part installed on my computer was running at 50% of my cpu Jan 19 07:52:06 apparently we are booth #59 Jan 19 07:55:24 jacques: so you interested in saverestoremgr ? Jan 19 07:59:50 rwhitby: have run regular webos -doctor, now what should I do? Jan 19 08:00:13 LoneStar99: now build the meta-doctor, and then run it Jan 19 08:01:13 do I need linux for meta-doctor? Jan 19 08:08:50 rwhitby: I have FreeBSD installed in an emulator will that work? Jan 19 08:12:05 rwhitby, what is that, a full backup app? Jan 19 09:33:05 slow night... Jan 19 09:46:51 cryptk|work: so it is Jan 19 09:47:02 cryptk|work: i should be sleeping, heh Jan 19 09:47:34 indeed you should Jan 19 09:50:16 but arm asm is keeping me awake :) Jan 19 09:50:58 ldr r0, =sleep_reg Jan 19 09:51:05 mov r1, #1 Jan 19 09:51:09 str r1, [r0] Jan 19 09:51:46 geist: :) Jan 19 09:51:46 is that assembley code for sleep is #1? Jan 19 09:51:47 lol Jan 19 09:51:51 BX R14 Jan 19 09:52:14 break out of that subroutine now, sleep is for the weak Jan 19 09:52:26 hitting the control register that puts you to sleep Jan 19 10:07:30 ~botsnack Jan 19 10:07:31 cryptk|work: thanks Jan 19 10:07:36 ~~~~ Jan 19 10:07:37 ARGH!!! STOP IT cryptk|work!!! Jan 19 10:28:47 jacques: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Save_and_Restore Jan 19 11:00:17 jacques, destinal, egaudet: First saverestore script example: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=services/saverestoremgr.git;a=blob;f=scripts/com.ea.app.nfsuc Jan 19 11:02:09 luna-send -n 1 luna://org.webosinternals.saverestoremgr/list '{}' Jan 19 11:02:13 luna-send -n 1 luna://org.webosinternals.saverestoremgr/save '{"id":"com.ea.app.nfsuc"}' Jan 19 11:02:18 luna-send -n 1 luna://org.webosinternals.saverestoremgr/restore '{"id":"com.ea.app.nfsuc"}' Jan 19 11:03:29 may change the service name to just org.webosinternals.saverestore Jan 19 11:04:00 * rwhitby bbt Jan 19 11:33:54 Have a good one rwhitby Jan 19 12:01:00 hi all! i was wondering if there was a command i could type into putty to shorten the log output Jan 19 12:03:09 try tail Jan 19 12:03:19 thanks Jan 19 12:03:28 i don't know if that's on the palm pre Jan 19 12:03:29 :D Jan 19 12:04:23 yes, it comes with busybox Jan 19 12:04:35 god i hate busybox Jan 19 12:04:47 it reminds me of a failed debian install Jan 19 12:05:02 seems you missed the mission of busybox: be really really small Jan 19 12:05:04 it works great Jan 19 12:05:10 if you want a proper env you install optware Jan 19 12:05:14 (or whatever) Jan 19 12:05:42 did destinal say terminal was fixed Jan 19 12:06:01 is there an update for it in preware? Jan 19 12:06:08 if so I am grabbing that right after work Jan 19 12:06:16 I didn't see an update. I did a git pull on the termplugin and didn't get any deltas Jan 19 12:06:23 if he fixed it, he's still testing and didn't push Jan 19 12:06:25 (I hate the 2 close crash... or 2CC as I call it, lol) Jan 19 12:06:48 let's all pm destinal "2cc" Jan 19 12:06:50 every second Jan 19 12:06:52 until it's fixed Jan 19 12:07:04 Towzzer: that's a great idea, except that it isn't Jan 19 12:07:18 I have a better idea. Why don't you pull the source and fix it yourself? Jan 19 12:08:11 the 2cc and the screen not properly reformatting on a rotate are my only qualms with it Jan 19 12:08:20 and I am not sure much can be done about the rotate issue Jan 19 12:08:24 cryptk , jettero is not getting my joke Jan 19 12:08:25 the 2cc bugs everyone Jan 19 12:08:25 help Jan 19 12:09:05 I get your joke Jan 19 12:09:12 I just didn't think it was funny Jan 19 12:09:35 jettero: I think what he meant was "we should all pull the source, fix it ourselves and while we are at it write a bot to automatically msg destinal "2cc" every second Jan 19 12:17:53 clearly Jan 19 12:19:37 there's only like 5 commits in the termplugin repo Jan 19 12:19:46 I wonder if my remote is even set right Jan 19 12:31:17 ohhhh Jan 19 12:31:27 did anyone put squareify screen on preware? Jan 19 14:12:44 anyone ever try meta-doctor on FreeBSD? Jan 19 14:14:20 freebsd on palm? Jan 19 14:14:22 oh Jan 19 14:14:29 lonestar isn't meta-doctor java? Jan 19 14:14:39 should run on any system with the jre installed Jan 19 14:15:55 Towzzer: oh that is true need to install java Jan 19 14:16:06 thanks Jan 19 14:16:35 :D Jan 19 14:16:50 i'm reading a page about why python is better than java Jan 19 14:16:58 nice Jan 19 14:17:38 it's just someone's opinion Jan 19 14:17:53 i personally use php Jan 19 14:18:05 i think that would be simliar to python Jan 19 14:18:12 for the argument Jan 19 14:18:21 what does meta-doctor do Jan 19 14:19:45 not sure, i need to use my pre as a dev device using wifi... so that should allow me to do it Jan 19 15:27:31 broke down and got the GLES 2.0 programmer's guide book last night - good stuff Jan 19 15:27:43 and hi Jan 19 15:30:02 you guys know of easy way to use cmake w/ the existing toolchain? should it just work fine or major problemos? Jan 19 15:34:43 anyone know if openjava 6 will run meta doctor? Jan 19 15:38:45 ugh, I hate that thing where the media noise won't come out the speaker until you plug and unplug headphones enough to get it to realize there's no headphones plugged in Jan 19 15:42:14 is there a patch to prevent the pre from being so bright Jan 19 15:42:16 or showing anything Jan 19 15:42:19 while charges on a touchstone Jan 19 15:42:56 ryan_gahl: it should prob work Jan 19 15:43:08 what uses cmake? Jan 19 15:43:19 destinal ,hey! Jan 19 15:43:32 towzzzzz Jan 19 15:43:35 sup Jan 19 15:43:49 destinal i was complaining about you Jan 19 15:43:52 and the delay on the new terminal Jan 19 15:43:57 and some guy defended you Jan 19 15:43:59 the nerve of him Jan 19 15:44:04 I was flabberghasted Jan 19 15:44:38 who is defending destinal-wirc1 ? Jan 19 15:44:48 nobody with sense Jan 19 15:44:59 destinal should be whipped like a sullen boy Jan 19 15:46:06 towzz: looks like whatever caused the terminal issue has been there for many months Jan 19 15:46:29 so I'm stepping backwards through the old git repo Jan 19 15:46:44 are you going to get in a time machine Jan 19 15:46:47 and go back to 1985 Jan 19 15:47:02 yes but only if it's a DeLorean Jan 19 15:48:31 just keep an eye out for Biff Jan 19 15:49:01 destinal, have you though about outsourcing to india Jan 19 15:49:38 towzz: well actually I'm hoping someone hires me to do this full time :) Jan 19 15:49:47 like who Jan 19 15:49:52 the free app foundation? Jan 19 15:50:23 Towzzer: super trolling much? Jan 19 15:50:34 serious Jan 19 15:50:40 aren't you an eccentric billionaire who knows a good investment in free software when he sees one? Jan 19 15:50:49 I am a crazy student Jan 19 15:51:02 people really are quick to call people trolls these days Jan 19 15:51:14 would be a clever way to get someone kicked you didn't like Jan 19 15:51:18 just accuse them of being a troll Jan 19 15:51:35 Towzzer: no accusations, just a question. Jan 19 15:51:44 man, that towzzer guy is such a troll Jan 19 15:51:51 destinal: the latest Ogre builds are using cmake Jan 19 15:52:02 oil hates me! Jan 19 15:52:04 * Towzzer licks oil Jan 19 15:52:11 tastes like hatred........and oil Jan 19 15:52:14 I have a book on cmake on my shelf Jan 19 15:52:26 nice Jan 19 15:52:29 * Maulkin fetches popcorn Jan 19 15:52:34 * zsoc makes a super towzzer defense game Jan 19 15:52:48 *groan* Jan 19 15:53:01 lol Jan 19 15:53:22 Maulkin: I can make bad puns. I have a + Jan 19 15:54:00 lol Jan 19 15:54:09 ryan_gahl: cmake is powerful but I think autoconf is probably better overall (possibly with exception of windows) Jan 19 15:54:22 Ahh, that's what it means Jan 19 15:54:40 windows in general is better, I agree Jan 19 15:55:02 I think a dozen chinese teenagers is best. (old joke) Jan 19 15:55:17 CoolMatty: older than me I guess Jan 19 15:56:20 s/of w/of it's lack of support for w/ Jan 19 15:56:20 destinal-wirc1 meant: ryan_gahl: cmake is powerful but I think autoconf is probably better overall (possibly with exception of it's lack of support for windows) Jan 19 15:56:37 destinal: hoping to squeeze time away from work in next couple days to attempt building and running the ogre examples (dry run #1) Jan 19 15:56:40 zsoc: :P Jan 19 15:58:28 ryan_gahl: cool. is it opengl though? Jan 19 15:58:30 who needs windows support anyway :P Jan 19 15:58:46 yup openGL, directX, etc Jan 19 15:58:52 already an iPhone port Jan 19 15:58:54 so SDL is a go Jan 19 15:59:17 ryan_gahl: the tricky part is likely to be porting from opengl to opengl-es Jan 19 15:59:46 we don't have full gl on pre Jan 19 16:00:03 no gl on iphone either Jan 19 16:00:15 ryan_gahl: use the iphone port :p Jan 19 16:00:20 right, but as mentioned, someone already did that part Jan 19 16:00:27 down with iphone! Jan 19 16:00:33 iphone == pre Jan 19 16:00:33 oh there's an iphone port, then cool Jan 19 16:00:37 has anyone looked into porting synergy? Jan 19 16:00:40 up with pre Jan 19 16:00:42 should be little work then, in theory Jan 19 16:00:48 iphone 3gs is the same cpu/gpu Jan 19 16:00:52 yep, that's what i'm banking on Jan 19 16:01:14 actually the only work might be removing an apple-proprietary API shite Jan 19 16:01:23 any* Jan 19 16:01:49 but maybe just port that too - acceleromator support, etc... Jan 19 16:01:58 er* Jan 19 16:02:09 well they have several api's Jan 19 16:02:27 so yeah porting from those to straight sdl Jan 19 16:02:37 :/ Jan 19 16:03:09 for the most part the ogre dudes are usually cognisant of standards vs. platform-specific stuff Jan 19 16:03:13 wasn't someone porting tux rider from iphone? Jan 19 16:03:21 synergy on the pre would be awesome, especially if there was a way to make the touchscreen act more like a touchpad Jan 19 16:03:28 I wonder how hard that was Jan 19 16:03:33 tux racer is not iphone specific Jan 19 16:03:56 yeah but the iphone port was ogl-es Jan 19 16:04:18 thus iphone to pre ports can be easier than some Jan 19 16:04:36 what's the transition like from Objective-C to C/C++? Jan 19 16:04:45 oy Jan 19 16:04:58 haha Jan 19 16:04:59 well a lot of iphone stuff is in c/c++ Jan 19 16:05:08 oh my bad Jan 19 16:05:10 Objective-C is a weird step cousing Jan 19 16:05:15 objc is just one option Jan 19 16:05:15 cousin* Jan 19 16:05:45 not weird as in bad, just weird as in I haven't learnt it yet :) Jan 19 16:05:47 didn't know they let standard C/C++ soft on there Jan 19 16:05:58 and if people already ported something to iphone from other platform it's not likely in objc Jan 19 16:06:03 people always make a big deal about Obj-C on iPhone Jan 19 16:06:46 i think ppl in general like standards based stuff Jan 19 16:07:18 ryan_gahl: webos uses SDL 'joystick' support for accel, if that helps at all Jan 19 16:07:25 obj-c is surely powerful, just vendor/platform locked in Jan 19 16:07:33 obj-c is a fart, imo Jan 19 16:08:07 +zsoc: ah, thanks for that pointer - i wonder how much of this work will be paralleled in the official PDK Jan 19 16:08:52 ryan_gahl: isn't the objc in gnu? Jan 19 16:09:37 objective-c Jan 19 16:09:57 in gnu compiler Jan 19 16:10:00 ? assumed it was Apple only, maybe wrong about that? Jan 19 16:10:08 open source Jan 19 16:10:17 i think everyone should use d Jan 19 16:10:53 lol Jan 19 16:10:57 B Jan 19 16:11:06 BCPL Jan 19 16:11:36 d is cool though, from what i've read anyway Jan 19 16:12:41 d is cool like python is cool Jan 19 16:12:48 :) Jan 19 16:12:50 python is cool Jan 19 16:13:08 python is better than sex Jan 19 16:16:30 I wait for the day when there are so many abstraction layers, C as we know it is considered 'low level' and shunned amongst general developers Jan 19 16:17:12 you mean, like 5 years ago? Jan 19 16:17:14 C is a high level programming language Jan 19 16:17:23 and hard core Jan 19 16:17:43 "pointers????? wtf are pointers???" Jan 19 16:18:13 ryan_gahl: maybe. I'm just so lost to the world outside of opensource. Jan 19 16:18:46 actually, i love all layers but C is definitely as low as I want to get Jan 19 16:19:11 loving how powerful js has become at the very top layer Jan 19 16:19:40 i'm going to start learning python Jan 19 16:19:44 for programs that don't need to be fast Jan 19 16:19:45 zsoc: remember tons of opensource ppl are in java land too Jan 19 16:20:21 ryan_gahl: js is only powerful because standards groups keep pushing more wrappers into it :p Jan 19 16:20:39 true, but it's powerful nonetheless Jan 19 16:21:03 ryan_gahl: opensource only uses java for platform independence, no reason to use it if you're targeting *ix imo Jan 19 16:21:05 which is the point of it all - keep pushing power to the top Jan 19 16:21:41 and it gets harder and harder to debug. webGL is going to be a fart.. or just very limited Jan 19 16:21:59 +zsoc: ease of development, tooling options, framework options... lots of reasons to maybe use a stack like that Jan 19 16:22:49 grr java Jan 19 16:22:55 java is for noobs! Jan 19 16:22:57 * egaudet_work runs Jan 19 16:22:58 ryan_gahl: I digress :) I find it's hard to get someone's true reasoning without provoking them enough to tell you how they really feel ;) Jan 19 16:23:18 egaudet_work: so where's tuxracer / epr 2 / aupt? Jan 19 16:24:13 grrr Jan 19 16:24:16 * egaudet_work runs further Jan 19 16:24:22 farther Jan 19 16:25:12 +zsoc: i'm just open minded, i know there are ppl at all levels of the spectrum and i think there is true value in pushing power up the layers via abstraction... eventually the abstraction becomes actually good Jan 19 16:25:13 I got tuxrider world challenge to glRotate() so you can play one training course. extreme tux racer is still a big fat i-stink-at-opengles failure ATM Jan 19 16:25:30 epr 2 and aupt are going under a hopeuflly "final" test after work Jan 19 16:26:16 +zsoc: the Pre wouldn't be what it is without that mindset :) Jan 19 16:27:18 why do I love C? Jan 19 16:29:41 ryan_gahl: unfortunately layers of abstraction frequently carry performance costs Jan 19 16:30:33 no doubt Jan 19 16:30:46 that's why i say "eventually" Jan 19 16:30:56 it's a cycle Jan 19 16:31:15 c++ was a major abstraction and boo'ed by the purists of the day :) Jan 19 16:31:49 and some today Jan 19 16:31:58 heh Jan 19 16:33:38 i boo purists :P Jan 19 16:34:42 ryan_gahl: IIRC C++ was booed because of the terrible performance, not because it was more abstract Jan 19 16:36:17 but atleast you could embed ASM code in C++ Jan 19 16:36:25 so there was an "out" Jan 19 16:36:32 egaudet_work: good to hear. sounded like you were giving up yesterday :/ Jan 19 16:36:58 egaudet_work: AUPT IT! Jan 19 16:37:13 unsigned: yeah, that's kind of my point - at first performance was an issue, now it's not Jan 19 16:37:42 but you could still use embedded asm or just the C overlap of C++ Jan 19 16:37:45 I would put serious work into this tower defense if I didn't know flash was coming so soon Jan 19 16:37:47 now, performance is an issue again at the top layers of abstraction, 5-10-20 yrs from now it won't be Jan 19 16:38:16 i'm not so sure .. Jan 19 16:38:18 and you can still drop down the layers now too man Jan 19 16:38:35 dude, this is the way it is, always has been, always will be :) Jan 19 16:38:56 I agree, but with compiled vs interpreted thats a difficult gap Jan 19 16:39:15 look at Rhino, V8, and other JIT javascript stacks Jan 19 16:39:33 js-to-bytecode is happening now Jan 19 16:39:40 precompiled i mean Jan 19 16:39:44 Althrough, A top of the line core 2 duo might be several thousand times faster than a 1mhz AT, but very few consumer apps are performant on that order of magnitude Jan 19 16:40:33 so its mostly been a waste, we still haven't gotten rid of basic bugs like memory leaks :( Jan 19 16:40:38 a lot has changed with the way interpreters play with precompiled and dynamic runtimes Jan 19 16:40:46 not a waste Jan 19 16:40:50 just a long process Jan 19 16:40:58 unsigned: I agree there Jan 19 16:41:13 well waste in terms of CPU wats, not programming language advancement Jan 19 16:41:27 the more I play with emulation the more I grasp the importance of efficiency Jan 19 16:41:55 although I guess some blame likes with software "engineering" Jan 19 16:42:16 so, the next stage might be a CPU architecture that groks the layers better Jan 19 16:42:18 its quite funny to call it engineering when we cant guarentee even a minimum level of tolerance Jan 19 16:42:24 lol, hardware accelerated javascript Jan 19 16:42:30 GPU browsers ! Jan 19 16:42:48 ryan_gahl: why is that funny? webGL :p Jan 19 16:42:58 and flash gpu support :) Jan 19 16:43:04 well, that's just js controlling GPU Jan 19 16:43:14 i meant more like a chip that interprets js Jan 19 16:43:20 so... lol Jan 19 16:43:23 oh Jan 19 16:43:24 lol Jan 19 16:43:30 memory leaks aren't the languages responsibility :P Jan 19 16:43:54 :P Jan 19 16:44:07 egaudet_work: NFC Jan 19 16:44:22 * zsoc codes in machine code Jan 19 16:44:22 plus they are oh so fun to hunt down in others' work Jan 19 16:44:42 hey it's Randy Jan 19 16:46:57 i partially agree with unsigned Jan 19 16:47:25 i wouldnt mind seeing dual core but low clocks Jan 19 16:48:07 loot_: 'new' netbooks coming to market with 1.3ghz Jan 19 16:48:09 most of the apps dont require massive clock cycles but when you can only process a single thread at a time things sometimes get slow Jan 19 16:48:22 I think megahertz are going the way of the megapixel Jan 19 16:48:37 more noise? Jan 19 16:48:53 check this out: http://www.netbookreviews.net/asus/1201t/ Jan 19 16:48:59 ive noticed with the pre if you have 5-6 low CPU cards open at once Jan 19 16:48:59 or is that megapickel? I can never remember. Jan 19 16:49:03 some things come to a grinding halt Jan 19 16:49:15 where as im sure with either a multithread or multicore pipeline it wouldnt be noticable Jan 19 16:49:41 sure, if the code makes use of threading Jan 19 16:49:43 ryan_gahl: nice Jan 19 16:49:46 no Jan 19 16:49:49 code doesnt need to Jan 19 16:49:54 running multiple threads at once already Jan 19 16:50:01 i just dont want thread hanging up everything else Jan 19 16:50:07 i realize they share cpu time slices Jan 19 16:50:20 oh you mean across apps Jan 19 16:50:24 yea Jan 19 16:50:30 i was thinking within same app Jan 19 16:50:32 like if they upgrade the next palm Jan 19 16:50:32 yeah o Jan 19 16:50:34 ok Jan 19 16:50:35 to use a cortex a9 Jan 19 16:51:28 if they made the next palm phone use an a9 with multiple cores Jan 19 16:51:35 just clocked way down to like 400mhz a core or something Jan 19 16:51:37 i would be a happy clam Jan 19 16:51:52 400mhz per core Jan 19 16:51:53 in < 5yrs these devices will be quadcore 2.0ghz systems Jan 19 16:52:07 current cortex a9 is capable of 2.2ghz dual core Jan 19 16:52:09 if im not mistaken Jan 19 16:52:17 but there are no production boards for those chips yet Jan 19 16:52:24 iphone 4 already dualcore > 1.0ghz Jan 19 16:52:28 infact they havent even mass produced the higher end a9's yet Jan 19 16:52:40 doesn't googles phone have a 1G proccy? Jan 19 16:52:41 loot_: ti davichi supports a9 no? Jan 19 16:52:55 yeah, nexus one 1.0 ghz snapdragon Jan 19 16:52:56 bah, snapdragon Jan 19 16:53:16 the nexus one is a joke though Jan 19 16:53:17 multicore vs. higher frequency in your phone ? Jan 19 16:53:20 single core Jan 19 16:53:23 with higher freq Jan 19 16:53:32 has same problems im complaining about for multitasking Jan 19 16:53:37 multicore doesn't offer you big benefits vs. single core Jan 19 16:53:37 and SUCKS your battery down Jan 19 16:53:47 friend has a nexus one on t mobile Jan 19 16:53:54 he ran the google maps navigation app Jan 19 16:54:00 and his battery was dead within 45min Jan 19 16:54:10 multicore phones? Jan 19 16:54:14 is shutting one core off better for power management than scaling the CPU speed back? Jan 19 16:54:29 unsigned: good question... i'd imagine so Jan 19 16:54:44 because a core has a minimal wattage to idle even Jan 19 16:54:52 even if its "shut off" so to speak Jan 19 16:54:54 new architectures shut the cores down for you when not in use Jan 19 16:55:01 entirely? Jan 19 16:55:03 how come noone can get a safe speed reduction patch for palm pre Jan 19 16:55:12 i thought it still used slight power to idle it just at very low clocks or something Jan 19 16:55:19 and didnt send anything to that cpu Jan 19 16:55:27 Towzzer because the kernal isn't compiled to support it. Jan 19 16:55:33 oh Jan 19 16:55:38 well, not sure there - probably something like that to reduce startup latency when needed Jan 19 16:55:53 dont get me wrong Jan 19 16:56:01 im glad the core clocks are improving Jan 19 16:56:04 Towzzer geist keeps saying that it isn't going to work. Jan 19 16:56:16 i just want multi core so i can finally use my phone like a real mini computer Jan 19 16:56:22 if i could massive multitask Jan 19 16:56:27 i'd have like 8 terminals open Jan 19 16:56:40 browsers, chat, music, etc all at once Jan 19 16:57:12 I guess to an extent iphone has suffered from not supporting multitasking, most apps assume they own the cpu and go nuts Jan 19 16:57:19 thus screwing the battery life completely Jan 19 16:57:21 if i do that now, after about the 10th card i get that awesome "no more cards" error Jan 19 16:57:27 and certain apps crawl Jan 19 16:57:33 oh and battery dies about twice as fast Jan 19 16:58:03 loot_: 5 yrs or less Jan 19 16:58:13 im sure part of that is related to total system memory as well Jan 19 16:58:40 but shouldn't the b/g apps be paged out to swap? Jan 19 16:58:40 i'd like to see an ARM world IMO Jan 19 16:58:58 start building cloud computing blade clusters with little tiny ARM dual core blades Jan 19 16:59:43 fractional power and heat compared to the big brothers... cheaper... no stupid quirky x86 crap to deal with Jan 19 17:00:06 loot_: you want more frequency, it's not a single core vs. multi core thing Jan 19 17:00:13 no thats just it Jan 19 17:00:16 i dont want more clocks Jan 19 17:00:17 OS do a fine job of multitasking in single core Jan 19 17:00:29 yea more clocks :) Jan 19 17:00:32 give us Jan 19 17:00:51 clocks only increase the CPU time slices that apps can share Jan 19 17:00:53 are we down to the last shrink now? Jan 19 17:01:27 IIRC the fabs were capable of 1 more Jan 19 17:01:55 CPU is too fast for you to notice true parallel processing vs. time slicing Jan 19 17:02:18 multicore is the solution to the frequency cap, not to multitasking Jan 19 17:02:57 2 400MHZ cores will perform less than 1 800MHZ single core Jan 19 17:03:17 but 200 1.0 ghz cells Jan 19 17:04:03 i think idling 2 lower clocked cores uses less power than a single equivalent core idles Jan 19 17:04:37 power problem'll be solved in 20 years Jan 19 17:04:40 egaudet_work: This has nothing to do with AUPT.. get back to work. Jan 19 17:04:43 You're probably right there, but I was only pointing out the multitasking aspect, not the power Jan 19 17:04:47 nuclear batteries ftw Jan 19 17:05:01 the only negative about having more cores or threads Jan 19 17:05:08 is increased context switching Jan 19 17:05:10 we'll probably all be dead in 20 years Jan 19 17:05:30 we're all going to be dead in 2 yers Jan 19 17:05:34 2012 FTW Jan 19 17:05:41 multiprocessing has overhead Jan 19 17:05:51 lol 2012 is so lame Jan 19 17:05:53 eg. context switching Jan 19 17:05:55 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8297934.stm Jan 19 17:06:00 right for one Jan 19 17:06:07 cache coherency Jan 19 17:06:17 cpu starvation Jan 19 17:06:19 scheduling Jan 19 17:06:25 well Jan 19 17:06:33 the a9 also has shared L2 cache Jan 19 17:06:49 so some of those arent actually that bad Jan 19 17:06:56 well if you have many cores, cant you just set permanent affinity of apps->cores Jan 19 17:06:59 to minimize this Jan 19 17:07:06 and yes Jan 19 17:07:15 you can make a thread only live on one core Jan 19 17:07:19 single core will outperform dual core at 1/2 frequency Jan 19 17:07:22 but that defeats some of the purpose Jan 19 17:07:31 egaudet_work: for single thread yes Jan 19 17:07:37 who thinks my teather is fantastic Jan 19 17:07:38 for lots of threads i dont think it does Jan 19 17:07:44 * zsoc patents the exclusive use of core 42 for his mobile applications Jan 19 17:07:52 loot_: for multithread too Jan 19 17:08:03 loot_: but you can have the OS run on specific cores Jan 19 17:08:04 Towzzer: is she hot? Jan 19 17:08:10 who Jan 19 17:08:14 mrs my teather Jan 19 17:08:15 if not all apps Jan 19 17:08:28 dual core cannot maximize the frequencies because of the overhead to keep them in sync for SMP Jan 19 17:08:28 unsigned: a sony playstation 2 works on a similar principal Jan 19 17:08:39 myTether = sucks... freeTether FTW Jan 19 17:08:39 you have 5 usable processor units Jan 19 17:08:39 unsigned int D: Jan 19 17:08:41 3 primary Jan 19 17:08:47 oh i meant free tether Jan 19 17:08:47 2 assist only Jan 19 17:08:51 i get confused sorry Jan 19 17:08:52 Towzzer: i'm a float :P Jan 19 17:09:08 I mean there are exceptions, but in general Jan 19 17:09:34 egaudet_work: i think most of the extra work can be eliminated by reducing the timer frequency too Jan 19 17:09:49 dBsooner, freeTether is up and running now? Jan 19 17:09:55 people that use 1000hz clock with dual quad core hyper threaded CPUs are wasting a ton of clocks Jan 19 17:09:58 interrupts flying everywhere Jan 19 17:10:20 jjcarter: I have never hard a problem with freeTether. Jan 19 17:10:36 free teather is perfect Jan 19 17:10:51 hmm... maybe I'm missing something Jan 19 17:11:32 jjcarter what's happening Jan 19 17:12:40 IMO i'd like to see ARM do a multithread pipeline for these CPUs because then you get the best of both worlds Jan 19 17:12:46 single core Jan 19 17:13:07 but you can shove 2 threads down the pipeline at once Jan 19 17:13:07 Towzzer, how do I enable wifi tethering? Jan 19 17:14:10 you cant Jan 19 17:14:12 plus if anyone needs proof that lower clock but lots of cores does the trick Jan 19 17:14:16 loot_ just wait for i7 mobile architecture :) Jan 19 17:14:18 just look at any modern graphics card Jan 19 17:14:31 most modern graphics cards only have 600mhz core clock CPUs Jan 19 17:14:39 but they have dozens if not hundreds of them Jan 19 17:14:42 "stream processors" Jan 19 17:15:00 + completely different instruction sets Jan 19 17:15:10 well ya Jan 19 17:15:19 the pipeline is four times the width Jan 19 17:15:20 but Jan 19 17:15:29 my point is still valid Jan 19 17:15:48 yea well that's a little different, the world of a general cpu is different than that of a gpu Jan 19 17:15:57 not really Jan 19 17:16:00 yep - i think specialization at the hardware level + parallelization (to an extreme) is the future Jan 19 17:16:10 true parallel processing is definitely ideal, but not always realistic Jan 19 17:16:17 GPU is just an optimized pipeline for vectors (aka 128bits) Jan 19 17:16:40 they dont really use anything foreign to accomplish the speeds they do Jan 19 17:16:55 they just focus on the pipeline not on clock speed numbers Jan 19 17:16:57 well, maybe a little Japanese Jan 19 17:17:05 :P Jan 19 17:17:06 but they accomplish those speeds for the tasks they do Jan 19 17:17:08 lol Jan 19 17:17:32 not all tasks are even possible to be parallelized Jan 19 17:17:40 right Jan 19 17:17:45 i.e. the specialization Jan 19 17:17:56 physX card, case in point Jan 19 17:17:59 nor do i claim that they do Jan 19 17:18:07 im merely speaking from a thread perspective Jan 19 17:18:08 my fictional js-card isn't that far fetched Jan 19 17:18:13 the more people rely on their phones Jan 19 17:18:24 the more threads the phones are going to be "running" at any time Jan 19 17:19:02 DUDE, killer business model to execute in 20-50 years: on-demand specialized chip making Jan 19 17:19:16 lol Jan 19 17:19:21 yeah, we just need to beg for a few hundred mil now Jan 19 17:19:24 these threads aren't independent from the syste Jan 19 17:19:27 system* Jan 19 17:19:57 "yeah, I need a WebOS card... $50? ok, deal" Jan 19 17:19:58 (re: simply multicoring) Jan 19 17:20:09 lol Jan 19 17:20:30 what's after silicon? it's been awhile. feels old. Jan 19 17:20:31 wouldn't that just mean writing GPGPU software ? Jan 19 17:20:44 if i could do that, i'd order a phone with 10 arm corex a9 dual core 2.2's Jan 19 17:20:50 ill just carry a car battery around with me all day Jan 19 17:21:16 no, you write the software/app , use whatever tools you want... give the app the the fab, and out comes a chip Jan 19 17:21:45 i dont think anyone will ever buy those Jan 19 17:21:49 kind of like taking virtualization to the hardware Jan 19 17:21:53 but how would you know what chip design to use ? Jan 19 17:21:55 people are fond of the ability to reprogram endlessly Jan 19 17:21:58 on-demand Jan 19 17:22:02 these things take years to do Jan 19 17:22:12 FPGA Jan 19 17:22:15 no no, i'm talking about The Future Jan 19 17:22:22 duh Jan 19 17:22:33 i know, 20-50 years Jan 19 17:22:36 like, The Year 2000 Jan 19 17:22:44 :P Jan 19 17:22:45 in 20 years we'll have "wet" computers implanted in our brains anyways Jan 19 17:22:49 we already have FPGAs Jan 19 17:22:51 still you want to reduce the time scale from multiple years to.. days? Jan 19 17:22:58 caller id on the TV? hah i've got caller ID on my retina bitch! Jan 19 17:22:58 not days Jan 19 17:22:59 haha Jan 19 17:23:02 hours Jan 19 17:23:04 !! Jan 19 17:23:14 and performance testing?! Jan 19 17:23:17 :O Jan 19 17:23:30 ... ahem... The Future Jan 19 17:23:47 it's all baked into the process man Jan 19 17:23:54 well the future would just have us take chip implants at birth then Jan 19 17:23:54 in The Future Jan 19 17:24:07 output device hooks to the visual cortex Jan 19 17:24:08 anyway Jan 19 17:24:12 cpu runs on bio fuel Jan 19 17:24:22 or on brain 'waste' matter Jan 19 17:24:40 hmmm, might take a good 9 months to build such a system Jan 19 17:24:55 then at least 18 years to train Jan 19 17:25:28 "wet" computers Jan 19 17:25:37 chemical computers implanted directly into our brains at birth Jan 19 17:25:55 imagine being able to play a video game purely in your brain Jan 19 17:26:32 to an extent, it wont be the future.. schizophrenics are already playing that game :P Jan 19 17:26:37 "sorry i was late boss, some 12 year old DDoS'd my brain this morning" Jan 19 17:26:38 haha Jan 19 17:27:10 no.. its the future duh.. Jan 19 17:27:16 you just project yourself at work into your boss brain Jan 19 17:27:20 and come in late Jan 19 17:27:40 hell, in the future i hope we finally get rid of offices and cubicles Jan 19 17:27:46 and then he projects fake cash in your hands Jan 19 17:28:02 the cuil theory awakens ! Jan 19 17:29:32 http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_DFMrmYvja2w/SwLdtNyBvXI/AAAAAAAADMw/DEspdCSkIyg/s1600/cuiltheory_final_zoom.png Jan 19 17:29:40 they made a poster .. sweet ! Jan 19 17:30:40 so... how about those ARM processors eh :P Jan 19 17:31:12 (pulls every1 back to The Present) Jan 19 17:31:40 Pre2 and 3 are gonna kickass, that's all i know Jan 19 17:31:56 i hope the app store kicks off Jan 19 17:32:05 if I don't have rights to install novacom, WOQI won't work, right? Jan 19 17:32:58 right, WOQI requires novacom, and a dev-enabled pre Jan 19 17:33:00 dBsooner: test aupt Jan 19 17:34:32 I have the dev enabled pre, but the one machine I have accessible to me that I can run java 1.6 on broke, now I can't re-install my patches et al on my pre since my temp loaner from corporate won't let me install novacom :( Jan 19 17:34:41 er Jan 19 17:34:48 that should read "java 1.5 is broke" Jan 19 17:34:51 1.6 Jan 19 17:35:05 * jtrucks can't type. too much using the pre keyboard instead of a normal computer ;) Jan 19 17:36:24 is this the greatest phone ever made or what Jan 19 17:36:43 jtrucks: so you don't have preware Jan 19 17:37:11 people need to just leave an open ssh around so I can just fix their crap Jan 19 17:37:16 egaudet_work: no, I have to reinstall it. the day I was going to do that... the other machine died. Jan 19 17:37:32 xcomp: yes, it is. Jan 19 17:38:13 xcomp: wirc + pandora + web browser / youtube download = genius Jan 19 17:38:30 I have my own OS X machine, but it's a PPC, not Intel. I can't get the newer Java from Apple, and os far I've been unsuccessful in getting a suitable java to work. Jan 19 17:38:35 jtrucks: I think you need to find a machine you can get novacom on Jan 19 17:38:41 egaudet_work: yeah. :( Jan 19 17:38:53 what's wrong with java on the mac? Jan 19 17:39:55 Intel macs have a new enough java, but apparently the PPC hardware doesn't have a newer java available. There's some 3rd party packages, but I haven't gotten it to work with those yet. I'm hoping to avoid building the whole jdk from source, though. Jan 19 17:40:11 jtrucks: does virtual pc for the ppc mac support usb? Jan 19 17:40:25 destinal-wirc1: likely, but I don't own it. Jan 19 17:41:22 poor ppc macs, basically abandoned by apple Jan 19 17:41:27 So, we recently got free wifi at the place I work (from ATT) Jan 19 17:41:30 yup Jan 19 17:41:35 But you have to open a browser and click a "Connect" button to auth to it. Jan 19 17:41:44 Is there a way I can make the pre automate this? Jan 19 17:41:50 ird: I've used those on the pre, but not automated Jan 19 17:42:07 iPhone does it, so it has to be possible. Jan 19 17:42:27 AT&T also is the iPhone provider... Jan 19 17:42:43 ird: is it a form submit? Jan 19 17:42:46 That shouldn't make a difference. Jan 19 17:42:51 unsigned: looks like it. Jan 19 17:42:52 if so just write an app that visits that url Jan 19 17:43:02 do ppc macs have any virtualization software? Jan 19 17:43:19 ird: actually, it could. AT&T could see it's an iPhone and allow it access w/o going to the page. Jan 19 17:43:27 ird: does iphone do it or does att detect iphone user agent? Jan 19 17:43:36 egaudet_work: yes, but it's commercial and generally dead platforms. Jan 19 17:44:07 jtrucks: qemu might work Jan 19 17:44:32 destinal-wirc1: well for it to get the iphone user agent, the iphone needs to visit the site right? Jan 19 17:44:32 destinal-wirc1: my friend with an iphone says it works on non-ATT wifi hotspots like this as well. Jan 19 17:44:38 it would be slow though and not sure they passthrough mac usb ports Jan 19 17:44:40 so is the iphone automated or not? Jan 19 17:44:41 :-S Jan 19 17:44:46 destinal-wirc1: hmmm I'll have to check that out. Jan 19 17:45:08 ird: are you sure they work without ever opening browser? Jan 19 17:45:37 destinal-wirc1: You have to visit it once and connect, after that it just works. Jan 19 17:45:39 it could be browser hits portal, ua detected, passthrough and opened Jan 19 17:45:44 For me, if I close the browser it stops working. Jan 19 17:46:32 I'll apply the iPhone UA patch tonight before i go to work and see how that works. Jan 19 17:46:38 Well tomorrow.. Jan 19 17:46:44 I don't go back to work until 3am. Jan 19 17:46:47 and it's 11am Jan 19 17:46:48 :p Jan 19 17:47:47 ird: go to sleep Jan 19 17:48:20 zsoc: nou Jan 19 17:48:55 ird: is your arm coming out of your mouth and are you pointing at me? Jan 19 17:49:43 zsoc: my arm comes out of my trunk.. Jan 19 17:50:05 can't you put ubuntu on a ppc mac? Jan 19 17:50:27 i'm such a nerd. zsoc asks "is your arm coming out of your mouth" and my first thought is why would a cpu core be coming out of his mouth Jan 19 17:50:28 destinal-wirc1: Jan 19 17:50:29 (11:48:45 AM) chris: iphone auto goes to att wifi but it works with other hotspots Jan 19 17:50:29 (11:48:52 AM) chris: it auto logs into my optimum wifi as well Jan 19 17:50:29 (11:49:13 AM) chris: att isnt the only one who uses hotspots like that :p Jan 19 17:50:44 how did my /media/internal get umounted? wtf Jan 19 17:52:10 xcomp: you were soundin pretty gansta in that evas demo vid Jan 19 17:52:15 egaudet_work: what would it matter to have ubuntu if palm does not release nocacom binaries for linux/ppc Jan 19 17:52:41 destinal: palm-novacom is available from ubuntu repos Jan 19 17:53:00 zsoc: that's me ... nerd, gangsta and hipster-doofus all in one Jan 19 17:53:12 zsoc: what? it's closed source Jan 19 17:53:21 "you must eject the device before using photos"... whaaaa? Jan 19 17:53:42 I haven't heard of a ppc bin not for osx Jan 19 17:53:49 destinal-wirc1: ? I don't know. it's released legally. I think just the windows novacom binaries aren't released Jan 19 17:54:41 zsoc: but ubuntu x86 != ubuntu ppc Jan 19 17:55:03 do you know there are ppc bins? Jan 19 17:56:38 europe has some crazy roundabouts Jan 19 17:57:22 destinal: not to my knowledge Jan 19 17:57:23 bbl Jan 19 17:57:37 can't you emulate x86 on ppc Jan 19 17:58:25 sup all Jan 19 17:59:45 hmm Jan 19 17:59:57 DrFunk -- I need to talk to you. Jan 19 18:00:32 egaudet_work: only free one I know of is qemu which is slow and I don't know if it will pass through usb Jan 19 18:02:54 virtualpc is most likely but not free Jan 19 18:03:32 I thought it was free Jan 19 18:05:43 virtualpc runtime is free. Jan 19 18:06:31 for ppx? Jan 19 18:06:34 ppc? Jan 19 18:10:18 oh on mac Jan 19 18:10:24 I would have no idea Jan 19 18:10:36 but I didn't think they charged for anything but the enterprise editions or whatever Jan 19 18:12:35 virtualpc for ppc is not free, but it was included in prior years of mac office Jan 19 18:15:55 mdklein: thanks, thought that was it but wasn't sure Jan 19 18:17:12 jtrucks: just buy an old copy of office that includes it,on ebay. if it does usb passthru that is Jan 19 18:17:26 load windows or ubuntu Jan 19 18:17:37 qemu is free Jan 19 18:17:41 Q.app Jan 19 18:18:32 mdklein: does it do usb passthrough on a mac host? he's trying to dr. Jan 19 18:18:40 not sure Jan 19 18:18:46 destinal-wirc1: I'll just wait until the other work computer is fixed ;) Jan 19 18:19:40 speaking of ubuntu, any1 have the official ubuntu book - was looking at it at B&N last night, not sure if it's worth the $60 though Jan 19 18:20:25 just like big fat technical reference books :) Jan 19 18:20:48 jtrucks: it's just sad about the ppc mac thing, that's all. you have aperfectly good machine and shouldn't need anothe Jan 19 18:20:48 r Jan 19 18:20:56 destinal-wirc1: exactly. Jan 19 18:22:15 though I suspect there is a java package out there that will work, I've just not had time to find one and make it work. Jan 19 18:28:05 after 10 years making living in managed code environments, getting back to C is invigorating Jan 19 18:28:49 just felt like saying that :P Jan 19 18:30:20 what does ryan gahl love? the suspense is killing me Jan 19 18:30:36 ok, I feel really dumb but I want/need to know; how do I use the optware? Like OpenVPN/OpenSSL. There's no GUI I'm assuming since I don't have an icon for it/them. So, I need to use teminal then, I presume? Jan 19 18:30:44 lol Jan 19 18:30:58 bbiab Jan 19 18:36:31 christpunk01: yeah, terminal Jan 19 18:36:57 or you connect via novacom Jan 19 18:37:28 'ello all, what the news? :) Jan 19 18:37:51 hucksy: thanks. guess I need to learn it then. Jan 19 18:37:56 its dark outside ;) Jan 19 18:38:54 christpunk01: i wrote a script so i just have to enter one command via terminal and openvpn starts&connect Jan 19 18:41:10 egaudet_work: I have tested aupt. Jan 19 18:49:04 hucksy: oh sweet. do you have it posted anywhere? Jan 19 18:50:51 uhm, ists a 3-line bashscript, it will not work out of the box for your pre - but install openvpn and i will help you to write it Jan 19 18:51:05 its simpel Jan 19 18:51:33 ok. cool. Jan 19 18:59:24 heya Jan 19 18:59:32 i'm having some problems with preware Jan 19 18:59:40 the feeds are not loading Jan 19 18:59:49 any ideas? Jan 19 19:00:10 signal? Jan 19 19:00:20 sometimes a partial signal causes it to hang Jan 19 19:00:48 there is also an update preware Jan 19 19:01:49 what is the url for the preware feed again? Jan 19 19:03:49 dBsooner: test aupt with all the new upgrades Jan 19 19:04:36 * swisstomcat is updating preware Jan 19 19:05:57 that worked Jan 19 19:06:03 thanks Jan 19 19:06:06 I _love__ update all Jan 19 19:06:20 i like the feed diplay on loading Jan 19 19:11:39 why is it so hard to come up with a patch that can extend the vibrate function in webos... Jan 19 19:11:56 what do you mean extend the vibrate function? Jan 19 19:12:12 The ability to make it longer Jan 19 19:12:19 for specific alterts Jan 19 19:12:22 alerts* Jan 19 19:12:45 depends where/when the alert calls it. IT's a service call Jan 19 19:13:01 but the service call requests how long as well right? Jan 19 19:13:05 yea Jan 19 19:13:29 but if the alert isn't calling it from mojo, then you'd need a binary patch Jan 19 19:13:45 always gotta make things difficult... lol Jan 19 19:13:53 The patch i have now just adds to the current vibrate Jan 19 19:14:04 so its like the usual vibrate, then a small pause Jan 19 19:14:09 then my patch kicks in Jan 19 19:14:18 so its still useful i guess Jan 19 19:14:53 or find a way to have the txt manager app would headlessly... Jan 19 19:15:51 well... so it doesnt have to be in the dashboard at least Jan 19 19:20:03 Great... he made the app closed source Jan 19 19:23:22 ok as much as I usually avoid patches, named cards is cool Jan 19 19:23:37 er pages Jan 19 19:23:53 haha Jan 19 19:24:03 I like to keep it simple Jan 19 19:25:39 yeah but quick jumping to cards speeds things up a lot when you have lots of icons Jan 19 19:26:07 True Jan 19 19:26:22 I got 4 pages Jan 19 19:26:54 and how many screens per page? Jan 19 19:27:27 I only keep 16 apps on each page Jan 19 19:27:31 so I dont scroll up and down Jan 19 19:27:36 i have 4x4 launcher Jan 19 19:27:45 having to scroll both vertically AND horizontally is annoying I agree Jan 19 19:27:56 * xcomp should really learn to use universal search more Jan 19 19:27:57 so I do same Jan 19 19:27:58 i swipe too much Jan 19 19:28:03 I try to keep the scrolling vertically to a minimal Jan 19 19:28:42 As much as people say Webos is easy to use, every time I give someone my phone they manage to open every menu in 5 seconds or less.. Jan 19 19:28:49 then pass to me and ask WTF happened Jan 19 19:28:54 and I liked iphone springboard pages which were one screen each and swipe left and right Jan 19 19:29:05 egaudet_work: you test it Jan 19 19:29:28 dBsooner: when is the next batch of patches released? Jan 19 19:29:46 Abyssul: probably in the next hour or so Jan 19 19:29:57 Alrighty Jan 19 19:30:14 Hi guys. Stoping by just to ask why anybody picked up some of the javascript open source text messengers that support MSN live and ported it to webos. Its complicated to do that? Maybe some of you is intrested in that. Jan 19 19:31:01 glorifiedg: well there is the Messaging plugins which add more services for the messaging app Jan 19 19:31:01 Abyssul: there is a big difference between "easy to use" and knowing how to use it Jan 19 19:31:05 dBsooner: that browser patch that fritos done its very nice Jan 19 19:31:10 egaudet_work: I guess so Jan 19 19:31:12 it's more a matter of making more libpurple plugins work Jan 19 19:31:15 dBsooner: I can't be the only one to test Jan 19 19:31:16 I've tryed it and all went well Jan 19 19:31:52 webos is -easy- to use but it's something different, and people who are used to something else won't know how to use it right off the bat Jan 19 19:32:44 egaudet_work: So I have to "full erase" then doctor back to 1.3.1, then install all the patches I can, then OTA to 1.3.5.1, Then ..? Jan 19 19:32:53 you don't have to Jan 19 19:32:58 but if you want to :P Jan 19 19:32:59 Abyssul: is messaging plugins still being maintained? Jan 19 19:33:05 i dont' full erase though Jan 19 19:33:16 Abyssul: its currently unavailable for 1.3.5... Anyway, an app will be a good backup plan for messenging if you're a basic user or for the first times when a new update to webos is out. Jan 19 19:33:40 dBsooner: I'll let you know if it's safe to test tonight if my test passes Jan 19 19:33:48 ok Jan 19 19:33:54 destinal-wirc1: greg is working on a new version I think Jan 19 19:33:56 because I really need mine for the patch cert process. Jan 19 19:34:02 * dBsooner really needs a dev device. Jan 19 19:34:47 I hate using other phones Jan 19 19:34:55 Im so used to gestures that anything else is a joke Jan 19 19:35:06 how come nick completion in wirc seems to work with orange for a while then stop working? Jan 19 19:35:21 I don't know. Jan 19 19:35:36 Abyssul I keep trying to flick scroll screens on windows with the mouse. Jan 19 19:35:44 and to toss apps off to close Jan 19 19:35:49 yep, greg is working on a new version ... will be out in a few days Jan 19 19:35:53 some bugs he have to fix Jan 19 19:36:01 Abyssul: yesterday I found myself trying to do gestures on my friends iphone eheh Jan 19 19:36:24 Oh look.. Randy is here. Jan 19 19:36:31 Or whatever his name was. Jan 19 19:36:53 lol Jan 19 19:37:18 glorifiedg: Yea I was on m friends G1 and I was like, wheres the multitasking on this thing? Jan 19 19:38:21 Abyssul: palm is screwing with our brain. I dont think I can use another smartphone for a while. I'll need to detox from webos Jan 19 19:38:26 yeah, gestures become second nature after a while Jan 19 19:39:07 My friend just loves swiping cards around. Not even play with the apps themselves, jus t having fun making the apps fly around the screen and minimizing and opening Jan 19 19:39:13 old school palm was always good at intuitive Jan 19 19:39:24 destinal-wirc1: I think gesture gets stuck Jan 19 19:39:27 tap gesture to unstick it Jan 19 19:39:33 (re: wirc tab complete) Jan 19 19:41:20 to get rid of all the extra junk in the build.git repo (on my local copy...) do I just do "rm -rf * ; git reset --hard" Jan 19 19:41:35 I didn't realize when you constantly do a full build, you havfe about 300GB's of crap Jan 19 19:41:49 w00t w00t Jan 19 19:41:55 I have this strong aversion to rm -rf * Jan 19 19:42:25 * dBsooner is only going to do 'make -j4 SUBDIRS=autopatch' from now on Jan 19 19:42:30 I'd usually rather cd ..; rm -rf dirname; mkdir dirname Jan 19 19:42:33 dBsooner: git clean -f -d :P Jan 19 19:42:51 egaudet_work: that won't clean the build cache Jan 19 19:42:57 what build cache Jan 19 19:43:01 egaudet_work: ipkgs Jan 19 19:43:03 it cleans all created files Jan 19 19:43:16 those dirs are ingored in .gitignore Jan 19 19:43:25 so git doesn't even see them Jan 19 19:43:30 lies Jan 19 19:43:33 i promise Jan 19 19:43:45 do a full make Jan 19 19:43:53 and then do 'git status' Jan 19 19:43:58 there won't be any changed files Jan 19 19:44:15 or go into ipkgs/ folder of build.git.. and 'touch blah' Jan 19 19:44:19 and go back and do git status Jan 19 19:44:21 dBsooner: git clean -xfd Jan 19 19:44:37 rm -rf * Jan 19 19:44:39 :) Jan 19 19:44:56 x will ignore the .gitignore rules Jan 19 19:45:04 no need to rm when git does it for you Jan 19 19:45:09 git reset --hard && git clean -xfd Jan 19 19:45:27 I'm still doing a 'du -h' Jan 19 19:45:30 STILL Jan 19 19:45:33 rm -rf * && git checkout ./ works yea but Jan 19 19:45:39 one day you'll accidentally not be in your git repo Jan 19 19:45:41 of coruse I am defragmenting two of the hard drives at the same time Jan 19 19:46:40 there has to be a better way of keeping this less the size of it Jan 19 19:47:02 each patch dir having it's own build dir (has to be done).. but it has a src of every version it has ever been Jan 19 19:47:19 so one patch could have all the 1.3.5 patches like 5 times Jan 19 19:49:12 huh? Jan 19 19:49:20 I still think it would be niceto base patches off of versions of packages patched, but genersting a browse list is painful Jan 19 19:49:52 we'd need to implement a package version dependency check in ipkgservice Jan 19 19:50:08 but a patch doesn't need to require a version of the package Jan 19 19:50:15 egaudet_work: each build dir of each patch has the entire modifications repo in it Jan 19 19:50:16 a patch can work in multiple versions of that package Jan 19 19:50:29 egaudet_work: And it has that entire mod repo For EVERY version it has ever been. Jan 19 19:50:31 and shouldn't be relegated to only the one it was created for. if it applies, it's good :P Jan 19 19:50:55 dBsooner: only when you build it... Jan 19 19:51:20 egaudet: right, it would be great if we could just specify browser, versions x to y Jan 19 19:51:23 so a patch that has been "1.1.3-1, 1.1.3-3, 1.2.1-0, 1.2.1-4, 1.2.1-8, 1.2.1-10, 1.2.1-21, 1.3.1-1, 1.3.1-10, 1.3.5-1, 1.3.5-10" Jan 19 19:51:35 and then never care about webos Jan 19 19:51:44 version numbers Jan 19 19:52:27 would have the full mods repo for every one of those versions Jan 19 19:52:33 if a new webos came out and only three packages patched changed. only those three would need updated Jan 19 19:52:36 too bad you can't just symlink it Jan 19 19:52:41 symlink the sources Jan 19 19:53:06 so you don't have 175 1.3.5-1 mods folder's Jan 19 19:53:18 it shouldn't need webos version number awareness, webos is just distro Jan 19 19:56:31 destinal-wirc1: but how we would accomplish this Jan 19 19:57:42 we'd need the ipkg_depends into the ipkg control as well as ipkgervice. And then we could have one patch feed... hmm Jan 19 19:58:17 however if I am on v1 of this package and you are on v2 of this package, how can we both use the same feed Jan 19 19:58:52 dBsooner: are you talking about on the build system? Jan 19 19:58:59 on your local system you only have the ones you built Jan 19 19:59:27 yeah, ipkg doesn't work well with this Jan 19 19:59:29 has anyone tried the following on FreeBSD: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:MetaDoctor ?? Jan 19 20:00:30 dBsooner: I suppose we could make a common modifications-$ver area instead of local to each patch build, but do we need the space/time on the autobuilder Jan 19 20:00:56 destinal-wirc1: does opkg? Or whatever was being considered for the C service Jan 19 20:01:11 no facility for depends as arch Jan 19 20:01:22 or kindof Jan 19 20:04:43 Lonestar99: I think metadoctor needs unix type environment in general Jan 19 20:04:52 not linux specifically Jan 19 20:05:29 but duuno if any have tried Jan 19 20:05:51 http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/225523-palm-webos-developers-getting-major-headaches-homebrew.html Jan 19 20:07:26 destinal-wirc1: ok gonna try it on freebsd, will get back to you all with my results Jan 19 20:07:34 egaudet_work: I saw that Jan 19 20:10:01 Need some onscreen controls for the VBA Jan 19 20:10:42 no one here has had issues w/ load avgs going high on the pre, and then when you plug in via USB to check it out, it starts calming down? Jan 19 20:10:51 recently doctored, unpatched pre Jan 19 20:12:24 what load avgs? Jan 19 20:12:41 ssh in without plugging in USB Jan 19 20:12:58 yeah egaudet - was going to try that, something is mucked on my wifi network @ work Jan 19 20:13:09 load avgs > 8+ Jan 19 20:13:43 where are you seeing the load avgs Jan 19 20:13:45 not sure if they're doing client isolation here...couldnt even ping my pre Jan 19 20:13:46 top Jan 19 20:14:59 wouldnt it seem to be power-related though, if once i plug in (to connect/charge) the load goes down? Jan 19 20:15:03 if I wanted to get my pre activated at sprint, do I need to take the physical phone to the store> Jan 19 20:15:04 ? Jan 19 20:20:46 LoneStar99: I think they can provision it over the phone Jan 19 20:20:56 call from a different phone Jan 19 20:25:43 can i provision it with a prepaid spring account? Jan 19 20:27:55 regarding that discussion we had this morning on abstraction: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/abstraction.png Jan 19 20:32:25 haha nice destinal_work Jan 19 20:33:14 :) Jan 19 20:34:09 AaAAaarrrgfhhhhh Jan 19 20:34:16 and furthermore AAaaarrrghhhh Jan 19 20:34:25 Rick_work: that sounds painful Jan 19 20:34:29 just had to revert a post and ban a spammer on the webos-internals wiki. Jan 19 20:34:32 I hate that Jan 19 20:34:58 Rick_work: we've had remarkably little abuse for how many views we have I'd say Jan 19 20:35:22 But what if I *need* a term paper? Jan 19 20:35:56 drnull1: lol, you beat me to the diff Jan 19 20:35:59 3.1million page views and 8.1K edits yeah, that's a pretty good run. Jan 19 20:37:42 wazzzzup Jan 19 20:37:44 destinal_work: I meant to call foul on your xkcd link. Do you know how long I read xkcd before I realized there was alt-text? I had to re-read like 300 comics. Jan 19 20:38:17 drnull1: uh, I didn't actually know what article it came from, I saw it from somewhere else on the interblags Jan 19 20:38:35 destinal_work: http://xkcd.com/676/ All better now. :) Jan 19 20:38:42 anything new? Jan 19 20:38:43 drnull1: very nice, thanks Jan 19 20:43:17 so do we think this: http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/225523-palm-webos-developers-getting-major-headaches-homebrew.html is way overblown? I haven't chuq say that anyone is up in arms about homebrew-broken pre's / pixi's Jan 19 20:43:28 s/chuq/heard chuq/ Jan 19 20:43:28 destinal_work meant: so do we think this: http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/225523-palm-webos-developers-getting-major-headaches-homebrew.html is way overblown? I haven't heard chuq say that anyone is up in arms about homebrew-broken pre's / pixi's Jan 19 20:43:52 Meh Jan 19 20:44:01 On the surface of it I think it's overblown Jan 19 20:44:03 Its just outlining the negative effects of homebrew Jan 19 20:44:24 no one is forced to use homebrew... Jan 19 20:44:27 Agreed Jan 19 20:44:29 "So now the App Catalog is being flooded with zero and one star reviews for GREAT apps simply because they can't install the app." Jan 19 20:44:43 I, too, have gotten those, but you can't hold everyone's hand Jan 19 20:44:46 The problem is we need a way to communicate from Preware to AM Jan 19 20:44:52 there will always be stupid, uninformed people Jan 19 20:45:02 AM? Jan 19 20:45:08 you shouldn't be able to rate an app unless its installed Jan 19 20:45:14 Not all homebrewers run to the forums or keep up to date with the ongoings Jan 19 20:45:15 people who give such reviews would probably give it a bad review anyways Jan 19 20:45:16 what about a latest news tab in preware? You KNOW most nub-nubs skip that info screen on boot Jan 19 20:45:27 a lot, I would guess, get preware and then rarely ever go to the forums Jan 19 20:45:28 Abyssul: Alien Mothership Jan 19 20:45:36 destinal_work: Haha alright Jan 19 20:45:52 a way to popup important notices via something in the feed may be a good idea Jan 19 20:45:55 Jan 19 20:46:07 AnOutsider|AFK: want to discuss themes tonight? Jan 19 20:46:25 the cause of the issue already has a warning Jan 19 20:46:48 sure, you're EST too right Jan 19 20:46:55 also are people connecting 0/1 star reviews to the migration troubles just assuming or are they going by comments? Jan 19 20:46:59 yea EST Jan 19 20:47:19 I have one 0 star review "My plam [sic] pre won't let me install apps" Jan 19 20:47:48 so yeah, my rating goes down because YOUR pre won't let YOU install apps. I've been dealing with dumbasses for years though, so I know to take it in stride Jan 19 20:48:01 user error Jan 19 20:48:16 lol AnOutsider|AFK that's stupid Jan 19 20:48:21 P.I.C.N.I.C. Jan 19 20:48:26 PEBKAC Jan 19 20:48:28 or PICNIP in this case I suppose Jan 19 20:49:03 i know pebkac, what is picnic Jan 19 20:49:16 infobot, wtf picnic Jan 19 20:49:18 Gee... I don't know what picnic means... Jan 19 20:49:32 Problem in chair, not in computer Jan 19 20:49:34 it must be something new... Jan 19 20:49:38 or in this case, pre Jan 19 20:49:39 ahh Jan 19 20:49:45 infobot, learn something! Jan 19 20:49:49 haha Jan 19 20:49:51 Abyssul: Aunt Minnie, or Average Man or Affable Misuser , (I made up the last two) see Joe Sixpack .. Jan 19 20:50:01 I hate the term myself Jan 19 20:50:44 AM does seem to stir up a lot of spit Jan 19 20:51:23 if the shoe fits... Jan 19 20:51:45 in any case, yeah, no real getting around it. Users will be users, and let's face it -- the majority of the population is, and always will be, misinformed Jan 19 20:51:59 now what to do about it? I think a "bulletins" section of preware would be a good idea Jan 19 20:52:19 something like "new version released, remember to update package manager service FIRST!" Jan 19 20:52:27 with a clickable link for more info. Jan 19 20:52:36 is it flooded? Jan 19 20:52:53 updates don't need bulletins, EMH needed a bulletin Jan 19 20:53:03 (apparently) Jan 19 20:53:56 I was just giving an example Jan 19 20:53:57 Which also begs the question, do we start a headless preware on boot, whose only job is to awake on bulletins and alert you :P Jan 19 20:54:05 I know of one person who updated preware before the PMS tho Jan 19 20:54:15 nope Jan 19 20:54:22 I say have it IN preware Jan 19 20:54:31 well preware doesn't allow updating it before Jan 19 20:54:37 yeah, i was thinking about a pre-preware that checks that you have the right version before it starts the real preware Jan 19 20:54:59 Let the user retain some sense of responsibility. On-boot have the alerts there, if they choose not to read them, hey, at least you made a valiant effort Jan 19 20:55:19 and it's a better method of communication than a simple forum post which many will miss (I dont visit PC myself) Jan 19 20:55:36 some people use pre's and they don't even have a pc Jan 19 20:55:47 although then they problably don't have preware/homebrew Jan 19 20:56:03 haah unless bestbuy or something installed it for them according to that thread Jan 19 20:56:31 what I'd really like to see is a wrapper to the palm updater Jan 19 20:56:53 that keeps people from doing the palm update until the patch remover is run Jan 19 20:57:04 Lumiere: not necessary Jan 19 20:57:08 and will ruin AUPT Jan 19 20:57:16 AUPT? Jan 19 20:57:20 or pre-preware that checks if you have the right preware/pms for your version of the OS Jan 19 20:57:42 AutoUpdate Patch Technology Jan 19 20:57:47 oh nm then! Jan 19 20:58:39 when is AUPT hitting mainstream? Jan 19 20:59:07 theres a file you can edit to get it working right? Jan 19 20:59:47 AUPT is nearing Jan 19 20:59:58 soon, soon Jan 19 21:00:40 what is AUPT, btw Jan 19 21:01:07 7 lines up Jan 19 21:01:08 lol someone make a wiki Jan 19 21:01:11 interesting, an app update hit the preware feed before the update was available via web distribution Jan 19 21:01:24 it's patches that update themselves at the right times Jan 19 21:01:25 well the feed preware reads Jan 19 21:01:40 they don't update themselves Jan 19 21:02:24 dpeaking of, eric, how's like 7:30? Jan 19 21:02:32 s/dpeaking/speaking/ Jan 19 21:02:33 AnOutsider|AFK meant: speaking of, eric, how's like 7:30? Jan 19 21:02:43 they just have smarter logic to know that an OTA changed the palm package they touch so they can remove cleanly, or to know that they are already applied but missing the ipkg data so install won't fail after partial erase. Preware has update for patches being remove/install, and update all works so future is OTA->preware update all Jan 19 21:02:48 AnOutsider|AFK: sounds good Jan 19 21:03:43 alright cool. ill nap and bbl. later all Jan 19 21:04:27 hi guy... i have seen there is a free new game on the app store.. " Zombie Invasion " Jan 19 21:04:42 but i am from germay an in my app store there isn't Jan 19 21:04:53 have someone the ipk? Jan 19 21:05:04 or a trick to get the game Jan 19 21:06:58 anyone know what this means in /var/log/messages?: Jan 19 21:07:35 timeout in prcm_check_power_domain_status(), domain 9, desired state 1, current state 3 Jan 19 21:12:40 pYr0x: Zombie Invasion isn't free = it's $.99 - I know the author (helped with the latest version a bit) Jan 19 21:13:37 ok.... but the problem is still the same... i am from germay... and my app store does not display it Jan 19 21:13:40 any trick? Jan 19 21:14:06 nope, Palm said Global support for paid apps is coming in (March?) Jan 19 21:14:26 aha Jan 19 21:17:56 egaudet_work: just catching up, aupt sounds hot - it's not _painful_ to remove/re-add patches per say (cuz it's just awesome that we can), but this'll make it sooo much nicer Jan 19 21:20:47 everyone with ryan in their nick must change to a nick with out ryan in it Jan 19 21:24:03 lol Jan 19 21:24:52 i've just always used my name, stop picking on me :) Jan 19 21:25:11 it's not ryan it's ryne Jan 19 21:25:28 hm i suppose the nick will be short enough... Jan 19 21:25:38 d'oh Jan 19 21:25:53 ran into clipping earlier Jan 19 21:25:55 :) Jan 19 21:26:23 i don't know all the rules yet Jan 19 21:37:03 alright, im over 3D accelerated games, and a pile of lovely patches Jan 19 21:37:13 what awesome thing has WOSI made today to wow me O_o Jan 19 21:38:03 FuMan: the thing you're about to make! Jan 19 21:38:05 :) Jan 19 21:38:27 how is it possible to use the packages from the armv7 directory in the emulator? Jan 19 21:38:32 FuMan: also, what do you want? :P Jan 19 21:38:47 the wont show in preware Jan 19 21:38:59 bernd__: it is not possible Jan 19 21:39:30 heh, destinal, everyone has their part in all of this, and my part, for sure, is a groupie / tester. Jan 19 21:39:32 the emulator runs as an x86 cpu? Jan 19 21:39:49 bernd__: ARM version 7 is a specific CPU architecture which the pre's processor implements. So the pre runs an ARM processor. The emulator is an x86 build of webos and runs in a virtualized x86 pc Jan 19 21:40:04 okay Jan 19 21:40:13 bernd__: there is another directory for x86 stuff Jan 19 21:40:15 thank you Jan 19 21:40:53 can qemu be used to run native arm code? Jan 19 21:41:03 And, to your second question, thats a tough one :P Jan 19 21:41:03 i guess ive still got holes in my heart that can be patched. Not being able to set a damned primary contact number, and being able to populate a text / e-mail with a list are both on my list of wants Jan 19 21:41:19 but, i think neither are really sexy enough to get any of the smart people excited. Jan 19 21:41:29 respective, how test the devs their sdl code? Jan 19 21:41:29 bernd__: yes it can Jan 19 21:41:39 rwhitby: whenever you get around, I need to ask you about a recurring issue I'm seeing -- configure failing compile checks even though the affected libs and headers are in place Jan 19 21:41:45 bernd__: uh, on a Pre, generally Jan 19 21:41:55 okay Jan 19 21:42:02 bernd__: you can run SDL stuff in the emulator too Jan 19 21:42:09 you just compile it for x86 and copy over the binary Jan 19 21:42:17 ah Jan 19 21:42:19 okay Jan 19 21:42:29 i will try this Jan 19 21:42:37 you also have to symlink /dev/fb1 -> /dev/fb0 and SDL gets to fight over the framebuffer with Luna Jan 19 21:42:43 it can cause some flicker Jan 19 21:43:50 and as I said if you want to test code that uses opengl-es, it's not currently possible. I have run DOOM for instance which is SDL but no opengl Jan 19 21:43:56 in the emulator Jan 19 21:44:27 due the missing of the powervr Jan 19 21:44:39 or any othe accelerator Jan 19 21:44:47 ? Jan 19 21:45:03 xcomp: example? Jan 19 21:45:18 can someone help me cross compile gestreamer ffmpeg for the pre? Jan 19 21:45:26 i have the environment set up Jan 19 21:45:35 egaudet_work: checking for XML_ParserCreate_MM in -lexpat... no Jan 19 21:45:40 just no idea how to work the makefile magic Jan 19 21:46:00 xcomp: it depends what the configure script is actually doing Jan 19 21:46:01 bernd__: right, theoretically we could use virtualbox's experimental opengl support and create opengl-es libraries but that would take some work Jan 19 21:46:14 it is probably not using -L/usr/local/include Jan 19 21:46:32 k, thank you a lot Jan 19 21:46:35 at the moment the libraries and the hardware support don't exist in the emulator for opengl Jan 19 21:46:38 bernd__: you're welcome Jan 19 21:47:18 egaudet_work: I've seen situations where I explicitly set LIB_CFLAGS and it still fails Jan 19 21:47:37 ./configure LDFLAGS=-L/usr/local/lib Jan 19 21:47:51 try that Jan 19 21:47:54 xcomp: there's no universal way to do it Jan 19 21:47:55 Usually export LIBS Jan 19 21:48:12 like in http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/OpenGL_Triangle_of_Doom Jan 19 21:48:13 if the configure script decides to build without using LDFLAGS for example, setting LDFLAGS won't help Jan 19 21:48:18 Jolting: yeah, i ahven't tried that in particular Jan 19 21:48:35 export LIBS="-Wl,-rpath-link=/usr/local/lib -L/usr/local/lib" Jan 19 21:48:39 now most configure scripts use standard macros CC, LDFLAGS etc... but some do not. Usually they have options you can set like --with-sdl= etc... Jan 19 21:48:53 export CFLAGS="-I/usr/local/include" Jan 19 21:48:57 ./configure Jan 19 21:48:58 etc Jan 19 21:49:07 destinal_work: doesn't mean that will work Jan 19 21:49:07 Jolting: and that actually works...hmm Jan 19 21:49:11 thanks Jan 19 21:49:21 OK then Jan 19 21:49:22 xcomp: thats how I build freeciv Jan 19 21:49:27 egaudet_work: it's worked with every autoconf I've tried Jan 19 21:49:38 I misread Jan 19 21:49:53 though xcomp said he tried that Jan 19 21:49:55 thought* Jan 19 21:50:23 egaudet_work: Usually the configure script asks you to specify LIB_CFLAGS and LIB_LDFLAGS as an alternative Jan 19 21:50:29 and in general it's better to use LDFLAGS rather than LIBS destinal_work, no? Jan 19 21:50:47 e.g. SDL_CFLAGS= Jan 19 21:50:49 not sure, just know that it's worked in the past for me Jan 19 21:50:58 Does anyone know why webos periodically sends jabbra (xmpp) messages to a company called "Savvis" Jan 19 21:51:03 xcomp: SDL flags usually get set by sdl-config Jan 19 21:51:07 I assume it is the push messaging stuff Jan 19 21:51:30 egaudet_work: was just using that as an example...with efl libs I can override sdl-config by setting those env variables Jan 19 21:51:44 xcomp: the LDFLAGS and PATH should have some examples in the WIDK Jan 19 21:52:07 xcomp: but it's better to just use PATH for instance Jan 19 21:52:17 The toolchain doesn't use /usr/local, but with the PDK everything is mapped to /usr/local/. You could always fix the toolchain. Jan 19 21:53:59 xcomp: packages/libsdl-mixer/Makefile for example Jan 19 21:54:47 egaudet_work: i'm familiar with all that. in this specific case I had none of those options Jan 19 21:55:01 I thought you said above LDFLAGS worked? Jan 19 21:55:05 it was an unconditoinal AC_CHECK_LIBS macro Jan 19 21:55:25 yeah, setting the LDFLAGS during configure time was the only way to fix it Jan 19 21:55:39 xcomp: right and that's what libsdl-mixer/Makefile does Jan 19 21:55:42 *AC_CHECK_LIB Jan 19 21:56:43 also if building custom libs that aren't on Pre I think you want to use -rpath instead of -rpath-link Jan 19 21:56:55 i am having troubles installing preware on my pre. am i in the right channel to ask some questions about it? Jan 19 21:57:50 Have you followed: install.preware.org Jan 19 21:58:18 egaudet_work: I've been staging libs in cross-compile for the past couple of weeks. none of this is new to me Jan 19 21:58:53 yea went over 2hrs worth of forum posts.. and can't seem to find the right info to get package manager to show up when i start preware up Jan 19 21:59:16 xcomp: You are confusing me. You said you had a path problem and then it was fixed by using LDFLAGS and I pointed to an example that uses LDFLAGS as well as PATH Jan 19 21:59:24 i am wondering if it is an issue with me doing it from windows7. Jan 19 21:59:50 lagged: what do you mean "show up" Jan 19 22:00:01 PATH is only necessary for pkg-config.... Sometimes --with-sdl will solve those Jan 19 22:00:13 Jolting: it's necessary for sdl-config as well Jan 19 22:00:39 right sdl-config is used by pkg-config Jan 19 22:00:49 sdl-config is used directly in many places Jan 19 22:00:52 preware is installed on the phone and everything and used Qi for both preware and packagemanager.. and i get the error "Package manager service is not running.. ...." when i load up preware. Jan 19 22:01:17 egaudet_work: this is only the first time that I've had to use LDFLAGS to make configure work Jan 19 22:01:38 most of the libs I'm working on use pkg-config anyway Jan 19 22:01:41 i doctored the phone once already also.. and tried numerous different things suggested on the forums.. still having the same issue no matter what i try. Jan 19 22:01:45 --with-sdl-prefix=/usr/local should bypass sdl-config Jan 19 22:01:53 that's correct Jan 19 22:02:06 Jolting: it does not always, for instance lisbdl-mixer requires sdl-config Jan 19 22:02:34 egaudet_work: good to know Jan 19 22:02:48 xcomp: I didn't direct you to libsdl-mixer as example to stage, just example using LDFLAGS since you asked about it a little before. Jan 19 22:03:24 egaudet_work: yeah I understand ... I really only said "SDL_CFLAGS" as a random example Jan 19 22:04:08 evas, for example allows you to set FONTCONFIG_CFLAGS/FONTCONFIG_LIBS, FREETYPE_CFLAGS, etc Jan 19 22:04:13 xcomp: make sure to use -rpath (not -rpath-link) if these libraries will be distributed Jan 19 22:04:33 egaudet_work: I know, I use -rpath Jan 19 22:06:34 einalex: if you still need help with gst-ffmpeg, just let me know which version, I'm pretty sure i have almost every one backported to work with gstreamer 0.10.21 Jan 19 22:07:07 unless i'm thinking of something else, which is possible. Jan 19 22:07:10 i just can't figure out why package manager is not saying it is running.. any idea's / help would be appreciated. Jan 19 22:07:56 lagged: preware is complaining that it is not running? Jan 19 22:08:02 yea.. on start Jan 19 22:08:07 how did you install preware? Jan 19 22:08:11 QI Jan 19 22:08:12 and package manager Jan 19 22:08:14 what eversion Jan 19 22:08:18 version* of QI Jan 19 22:08:24 what version of webos Jan 19 22:08:32 you must use QI 2.96 or later Jan 19 22:08:33 lagged: regardless of your problem, I suggest using the preware-bootstrap to reinstall it before we troubleshoot anything else. Jan 19 22:09:17 egaudet_work: did you see that other fellow with the corrupted conf again the other day? We can't figure out what actions in wosqi cause it Jan 19 22:09:25 ahhh.. i am using 2.6 Jan 19 22:09:27 it seems.. Jan 19 22:09:32 corrupted conf? Jan 19 22:09:34 status? Jan 19 22:09:38 egaudet: er, status, yes sorry Jan 19 22:09:52 I think I'm just going to change my name to zsilly Jan 19 22:10:00 rwhitby mentioned the other day that app catalog install and ipkg didn't play nicely together Jan 19 22:10:02 egaudet_work: let me update QI real fast and try this again.. thanks for the info Jan 19 22:10:19 Then Randy and Rob wont yell at me for saying silly things Jan 19 22:10:25 so I'm wondering if background app cat installing while installing with preware could corrupt it Jan 19 22:11:57 egaudet: possible. good theory at least Jan 19 22:12:13 anyone else's virtualbox'en ubuntu 9.10 server grub give a silly error on 'boot'? Jan 19 22:17:15 http://mydebian.blogdns.org/?p=148 <-- is this a reasonable conceptual guide to setting up ssh on the vbox? Jan 19 22:18:35 zsoc: why would you set up ssh on the emulator? Jan 19 22:18:54 oh or this isn't pre emu but a ubuntu? Jan 19 22:19:22 just apt-get install openssh-server Jan 19 22:19:39 destinal: yeah, for the pdk thing.. i'm not much of an ubuntu guy. i already installed openssh-server on the guest box Jan 19 22:19:51 but uh.. how do i connect to it, isn't localhost:22 my host machine? Jan 19 22:19:56 or change the port? Jan 19 22:20:03 and I had to change my interface to bridged to actually reach it (this was vbox running in win7) Jan 19 22:20:28 nope it gets it's own ip Jan 19 22:20:32 er, well my host is debian, so it shouldn't be too hard Jan 19 22:20:39 oh, an ip? VirtualBox is impressing me more now Jan 19 22:20:52 it's really a super simple to use interface, that guy needs a cookie Jan 19 22:21:26 what about your host doesn't work with the widk Jan 19 22:21:27 yeah if you set it up as bridged it will look as if it were directly pluged into lan,get dhcp from your router etc Jan 19 22:22:18 egaudet: nothing _directly_, there are a few packages not available in the repos due to the ancientness of this box, and also i wanted a separate environment because i tend to break things. so it's either a chroot or a virtual box, and i have too many chroots to count :P Jan 19 22:22:20 you can use nat also Jan 19 22:22:43 and i really wanted to play with 9.10 server :) Jan 19 22:23:57 good reasons :) Jan 19 22:24:23 if you are using data and someone tries to call you, does the call get blocked or does it go through and interrupt the data? Jan 19 22:24:39 try it Jan 19 22:24:48 I would assume the call comes through Jan 19 22:24:48 zsoc: that localhost trick the palm sdk does is a special command not available in the vbox gui to do port forwarding. you don't really need it for this though Jan 19 22:24:55 and the data gets interrupted Jan 19 22:25:14 Puff: I though the ring doesn't interrupt Jan 19 22:25:24 it's only if you answer Jan 19 22:25:37 PuffTheMagic: what I've seen is that data continues ringing, but answer (of course) drops the data connection (and then only if you're online for 15+seconds) Jan 19 22:25:49 destinal-wirc1: egaudet: For future reference, the trick that guide uses (having vbox forward tcp 2222 host to 22 guest) is nifty, and worked like a charm. Just connect to 2222 localhost with the guest username Jan 19 22:26:18 s/ringing/while ringing/ Jan 19 22:26:19 drnull1 meant: PuffTheMagic: what I've seen is that data continues while ringing, but answer (of course) drops the data connection (and then only if you're online for 15+seconds) Jan 19 22:26:25 zsoc: ah Jan 19 22:26:41 zsoc: the sdk emulator uses that as well Jan 19 22:26:59 destinal: i bet. i'm not an sdk guy. i've actually never installed/used it or any part of it (other than novacom) Jan 19 22:27:10 saves you from needing to worry about the guest's ip Jan 19 22:27:45 hm.. so now i have a headless virtual box... er.. well i _want_ it to be headless. is there an option for that? like close down the actual window but leave that vbox running? Jan 19 22:28:11 not really, just minimize Jan 19 22:28:18 lol Jan 19 22:28:19 * zsoc puts it in a different viewport Jan 19 22:28:20 headleass Jan 19 22:28:21 hahaha Jan 19 22:28:22 it bothers me Jan 19 22:28:36 close down WHAT actual window? Jan 19 22:28:43 * zsoc sets compiz to do 64x64, and puts it on the viewport as far away as possible Jan 19 22:29:04 egaudet: The guest machine window. the actual little virtual box gui... into your guest machine. Jan 19 22:29:29 oh i get it now Jan 19 22:29:40 there are some tricks about running vbox as a service on windows,not sure if they work on linux but they are not intended for workstations Jan 19 22:29:50 i ran out of heating oil last night :( Jan 19 22:30:12 puff: where in the world do you live? Jan 19 22:30:14 these mother f's at the supply place have been playing games with me all day Jan 19 22:30:15 shoulda puffed more magic Jan 19 22:30:21 destinal-wirc1: it's cool, that's why i have so many view ports :P sometimes i forget where i put things tho Jan 19 22:30:31 how many is so many? Jan 19 22:30:34 ShadeS: i was waiting for them to come first ;) Jan 19 22:30:41 destinal-wirc1: Troy, NY Jan 19 22:30:48 pfffft Jan 19 22:30:52 it's right next to bumblfeck Jan 19 22:30:56 we get colder winters than jeanu or anchorage Jan 19 22:31:03 zsoc: no Albany Jan 19 22:31:10 PuffTheMagic: that's what i said? Jan 19 22:31:10 few miles north of albany Jan 19 22:31:12 :> Jan 19 22:31:49 I have been laughing about Cuil Theory all day. Jan 19 22:31:59 I usually hate redditers. Jan 19 22:32:18 er.. redditors? redditators? people who post on reddit. Jan 19 22:32:32 ...? Jan 19 22:33:06 why? Jan 19 22:33:09 they're better than diggers Jan 19 22:33:15 and less nerdy than slashdotters Jan 19 22:33:15 PuffTheMagic: just surprised, I haven't heard of heating oil in common use, but googling, apparently it's more common than I thought. Jan 19 22:33:22 i'm a long time reader never time poster of all three Jan 19 22:33:32 i coulda made an acct back when the numbesr were way low but no sense now Jan 19 22:33:32 yeah i've never used it before either Jan 19 22:34:03 yeah man Jan 19 22:34:07 ShadeS: i had a 7 digit icq number up until last year :) Jan 19 22:34:10 not everyone lives in the 21st century Jan 19 22:34:21 http://i.imgur.com/wi4Zl.jpg Jan 19 22:34:21 with electricity Jan 19 22:34:26 heating oil is very popular in russia Jan 19 22:34:31 they store it rightnext to the vodka Jan 19 22:34:44 mine is 11333116 Jan 19 22:34:47 i forgot the password Jan 19 22:34:49 i ' Jan 19 22:34:59 brute forced' it with like 20 passwords i could have thought it to be Jan 19 22:35:00 but it failed Jan 19 22:35:42 ShadeS: ha yes, thats why i stopped using mine too :) Jan 19 22:35:44 pay pal has $5S for you if you can figure it out Jan 19 22:36:47 PuffTheMagic: That ad is one way to make me NOT buy their product :) Jan 19 22:37:23 PuffTheMagic: did you strip that of exif first? ;) Jan 19 22:37:31 * zsoc stalks puff Jan 19 22:38:14 Who was working on zsnes? Jan 19 22:38:34 zsoc: yes i still need help Jan 19 22:39:06 einalex: what's up? Jan 19 22:39:19 i need a clue on how to convert the gestreamer build process into a pre compatible one Jan 19 22:39:21 zsoc: I was working on snes9x and pocket whatever Jan 19 22:39:38 destinal_work: how did you deal with the doublebuf issues? opengl? Jan 19 22:39:41 i have my cross compiling environment set up Jan 19 22:39:59 einalex: does your compiling environment work properly? have you tested it? Jan 19 22:40:06 but i guess i have to edit some make files to make gestreamer use it Jan 19 22:40:19 zsoc: I didn't have any issues with it .. I did with dosbox and probably should do opengl but haven't yet Jan 19 22:40:28 einalex: are you using the webos-internals PDK? Jan 19 22:40:29 yes it seems to work pretty well Jan 19 22:40:33 i do Jan 19 22:40:42 destinal_work: er, wait, so it 'just works'? is it fast? Jan 19 22:40:55 zsoc: snes9x works fast but no sound Jan 19 22:41:15 einalex: this is probably more of a toolchain question than a gstreamer question then, but you shouldn't have to edit makefiles Jan 19 22:41:19 since it uses OSS and I haven't ported to alsa or pulse Jan 19 22:41:30 or sdl audio I guess Jan 19 22:41:33 destinal_work: ah, hm.. what about using sdl-mixer? yeah Jan 19 22:41:39 err sdl-mixer Jan 19 22:41:40 sorry Jan 19 22:41:41 zsoc: it sure is. but uhm how do i do it? Jan 19 22:41:48 sdl-audio is audio cd's or some thing weird Jan 19 22:42:03 if i just run the gstreamer makefile that just uses my system libs Jan 19 22:42:17 but doesn't do anything special to the pre... Jan 19 22:42:32 like for example compiling for arm Jan 19 22:42:59 einalex: right, it is a good question, and I am about to run into the answer also myself :D I believe you need to 'go into' the scratchbox environment first Jan 19 22:43:21 via chmod? Jan 19 22:43:24 uhm Jan 19 22:43:25 chroot Jan 19 22:43:27 sry Jan 19 22:43:34 einalex: something like sb2 -M /srv/preware/cross-compile/staging/mapping-armv7 Jan 19 22:43:39 ah ok Jan 19 22:43:41 i think, i'm no expert, someone here will pipe up :) Jan 19 22:43:58 i think that part is missing from the wiki Jan 19 22:44:16 einalex: hm... yeah i see it in the "how to build doom with scratchbox" page, but it's not anywhere in the general pages Jan 19 22:44:26 which part ? Jan 19 22:44:36 the part where you go into sb2... Jan 19 22:44:37 zsoc: well, the DOOM page is the "how to use" Jan 19 22:44:40 bpadalino: To get into the sandbox environment Jan 19 22:44:47 i'll have a look at the doom page Jan 19 22:44:53 zsoc: "how to install" is the sb2 page Jan 19 22:45:02 zsoc: zsnes is filled with x86 assembly Jan 19 22:45:05 yeah, sb2 -M will get you all into SB2 environment to do stuff Jan 19 22:45:33 destinal-wirc1: I think there should be a more general "how to USE scratchbox/pdk" rather than just "here's how doom works" and extrapolating Jan 19 22:45:44 egaudet_work: i thought so, but apparently minus that it still runs fast? Jan 19 22:46:08 zsoc: egaudet_work is for real. this is why I was doing snes9x and DrNokSnes Jan 19 22:46:16 I alias sb2 to sb2 -M and then just run sb2 configure and sb2 make etc.. Jan 19 22:46:39 destinal_work: AHHHhhhh i'm sorry i missed that Jan 19 22:46:41 zsoc: who got it to run? Jan 19 22:46:52 egaudet_work: i crossed my signals with dest a minute ago :) sorry Jan 19 22:46:57 :p Jan 19 22:47:03 you can set a default for sb2 Jan 19 22:47:07 so when you just type sb2 Jan 19 22:47:10 wouldn't "alias sb2 to sb2 -M" confuse scripts? Jan 19 22:47:11 it will automatically default Jan 19 22:47:26 Jolting: what scripts Jan 19 22:47:35 bpadalino|work: how? Jan 19 22:47:46 egaudet_work: try sb2 --help .. Jan 19 22:47:53 maybe sb2 -d or something Jan 19 22:48:08 that's permanent Jan 19 22:48:10 ? Jan 19 22:48:22 hey Jan 19 22:48:23 first profile should be default i thought normally Jan 19 22:49:07 no, nothing is permanent Jan 19 22:50:06 sb2 --help is weird, it says -d is debug mode and then for -t TARGET says use -d TARGET to set a default Jan 19 22:50:20 but nothing for default mapping rules file Jan 19 22:50:41 sb2 alias works Jan 19 22:50:52 pretty sure there's a default profile Jan 19 22:51:28 okie dokie Jan 19 22:51:37 ah ok Jan 19 22:51:45 now i'm compiling in the sandbox Jan 19 22:51:50 i'm currently confused by something else entirely right now .. so it doesn't help much :( Jan 19 22:52:04 but i have to compile all the prereqesits first don't I? Jan 19 22:52:26 bpadalino|work: mebee not :( but i definitely remember seeing it somewhere... although it was probably a mailing list and probably wrong lol Jan 19 22:52:32 :( Jan 19 22:52:37 einalex: i'd imagine so :) Jan 19 22:52:42 einalex, what exactly are you doing ? Jan 19 22:53:00 i want to compile gstreamer ffmpeg Jan 19 22:53:00 einalex: he's cross compiling gstreamer plugins Jan 19 22:53:20 einalex: also, make sure you back up the ones on your webos device before you accidentally overwrite them. Jan 19 22:54:05 ah Jan 19 22:54:19 eh, they're in a doctor image .. Jan 19 22:54:20 who cares Jan 19 22:54:30 shouldn't be putting them there anyway Jan 19 22:54:43 errr wait Jan 19 22:54:59 egaudet: i have about 380 gstreamer elements loaded right now lol Jan 19 22:55:15 i'll do that but i'll have to compile a whole lot of stuff first it seems Jan 19 22:55:29 einalex: not to burst your bubble... but which elemnts from gst-ffmpeg are you looking for? most of them are pretty bad Jan 19 22:55:29 glib for one thing Jan 19 22:55:48 well in the end i'd like some real videos... Jan 19 22:55:59 einalex: playback you mean? Jan 19 22:56:02 not like in real codec Jan 19 22:56:04 yes Jan 19 22:56:09 ok I go home now Jan 19 22:56:47 einalex: that might work with some magical sdlvlc hook or maybe a sdl-cinema hack, but I'm not sure if MediaServer uses playbin Jan 19 22:57:00 hm if you have some of that compiled for the pre, could you put that online somewhere and post me a link? that would save me a lot of trouble i guess Jan 19 22:57:33 einalex: er.. i can maybe a bit later, I have to look through a few things.. at minimum I'd have to set up a gitweb somewhere with the proper patches and source in it (for GPL reasons of course) Jan 19 22:58:18 no hurry it's the middle of the night here and i'm pretty tired Jan 19 22:58:34 einalex: I would TRIPLE check that MediaServer uses playbin or playbin2 first tho. You can stop mediaserver and restart it with --gst-debug=3 .. then play a video, and dump the output somewhere for me to poke a look at Jan 19 22:59:01 or just grep it for playbin :) Jan 19 23:00:09 In _theory_, if media server does use playbin, we can play almost any video type on the pre. The problem is getting fileindexer to RECOGNIZE the types are valid, otherwise you'd have to launch from command line Jan 19 23:00:19 i've been meaning to do this now for 2 months Jan 19 23:01:07 Although we can use some of Will's sdl magic to make a 'video player' and an 'audio player' in sdl that pulls files from a folder based on extension, and then plays through through sdl-cinema/mixer Jan 19 23:01:15 why is no one doing this right now? Jan 19 23:02:12 hmm.. or a binary hack to the fileindexer... Jan 19 23:02:14 s/hack/patch Jan 19 23:03:28 * FuMan would love to stop having to convert videos O_o Jan 19 23:04:03 any idea on where that is? Jan 19 23:04:09 i could grep that right now Jan 19 23:04:16 Also, the ScummVM wiki page is a terrible example of "how to use sb2", since it's using a special makefile Jan 19 23:04:34 einalex: "where it is"? do you have ssh access to your webos device? Jan 19 23:05:01 of course Jan 19 23:05:33 how could i live without? Jan 19 23:05:35 ;) Jan 19 23:06:05 einalex: i don't have the exact syntax, but basically you just stop the MediaServer service and restart it with that option i said earlier Jan 19 23:06:21 yeah where the media server is..i still don't have the folders in my head Jan 19 23:06:30 and i hate searching for them Jan 19 23:07:36 /usr/bin/mediaserver-xa1 -l --gst-debug=4 Jan 19 23:07:38 or something like that Jan 19 23:14:46 it's now running with debug level 4 Jan 19 23:14:55 zsoc|away Jan 19 23:18:48 yay netsplits Jan 19 23:19:44 what is this xorg tools thing, vaporware on the wiki? Jan 19 23:21:46 Anyone have a clue why im getting install failed errors in the catalog? Jan 19 23:22:55 Abyssul: Does it give any details? Jan 19 23:22:56 Probably need EMH Jan 19 23:23:09 Abyssul: That's the most likely case, yes. Jan 19 23:23:23 Weird since I havnt done anything to the phone Jan 19 23:23:40 einalex: did you capture the output? Jan 19 23:23:52 zsoc: there was none Jan 19 23:23:55 einalex: 4 is probably overkill, 3 is fine. Jan 19 23:23:58 einalex: oh, go play a video :P Jan 19 23:24:01 hehe Jan 19 23:24:08 there will be about a hundred pages of output :) Jan 19 23:24:14 4 made it so slow the startup video is playing one frame at a time Jan 19 23:24:32 that's fine, you just need to start the video, once it starts playing that's all the output i would need Jan 19 23:24:52 Abyssul: Have you install any Catalog apps since updating to 1.3.5? Jan 19 23:24:55 *installed Jan 19 23:25:02 Yes Jan 19 23:25:06 Quite a bit too Jan 19 23:25:12 problem is the upstart (it is upstart isnt it) script relaunches teh mediaserver on its own Jan 19 23:25:14 web distrobuted apps too Jan 19 23:25:17 einalex: if you're not getting any output, it's probably because you didn't stop the original instance of MediaServer and it's still using that Jan 19 23:25:28 einalex: do it on one line, like stop mediaserver; mediaserver etc Jan 19 23:25:43 i edited it to use the raised debug level but the output obviously doesn't end up on the console Jan 19 23:25:54 Abyssul: Maybe the downloads are failing? Jan 19 23:26:09 They download fully, say installing, then fail Jan 19 23:26:10 I'm having a hard time with this Makefile: http://webos.pastebin.com/d7d71a906 Jan 19 23:26:19 and ask me that it needs to be restarted because some settings have been changed Jan 19 23:26:37 abyssul maybe you want to doctor it Jan 19 23:26:41 but hm Jan 19 23:26:44 then install preware via webos qi Jan 19 23:26:54 well we'll get this covered by just using initctl Jan 19 23:26:57 It keeps saying "No rule to make target: ipkgs/blahblah.ipkg" Jan 19 23:27:14 Abyssul: your patch is in the feed Jan 19 23:27:19 Abyssul: Are you at a computer with Novaterm? Jan 19 23:27:21 or "should be" Jan 19 23:27:22 Thanks dBsooner Jan 19 23:27:26 Sorry it took so long Jan 19 23:27:29 Yes Dallashigh Jan 19 23:27:39 The EMH fixed the issue Jan 19 23:27:45 They install fine now Jan 19 23:27:55 I wanted to add a more robust "test patch" function to the admin panel Jan 19 23:27:59 Abyssul: Do you have any files in /var/usr/palm/applications ? Jan 19 23:28:11 Ill go check now, but its fixed. Jan 19 23:28:13 it now tests the patches against ALL current webos Ver's, not just the one the maintainer specifies. Jan 19 23:28:31 ok thats a lot of output Jan 19 23:28:37 So if you specify "1.3.5" only.. and it actually passes an --dry-run on 1.3.1, I build it for 1.3.1 as well. Jan 19 23:28:37 einalex: did you not believe me? Jan 19 23:28:39 strage, I'm updating the feed in preware and I can't see the new patches :S Jan 19 23:28:42 :) Jan 19 23:28:55 dallashigh: sms-tone per contact, and pdfviewer Jan 19 23:29:08 sms tone per contact was installed with quick install manually Jan 19 23:29:16 einalex: try 3 instead of 4.. it's still a ridiculous amount but shouldn't lag as much Jan 19 23:29:37 zsoc: what ya working on? Jan 19 23:30:03 Abyssul: Try uninstalling those patches, and then make sure their directories are removed from /var/usr/palm/applications Jan 19 23:30:11 Abyssul: some guy with some gumption wants to get alternate filetype video playback support Jan 19 23:30:23 The App Catalog doesn't seem to like having anything in that folder after 1.3.5 Jan 19 23:30:31 zsoc: really? Thats bold Jan 19 23:30:45 dallashigh, its fixed so I dont feel like messing with it :p Jan 19 23:31:00 Abyssul: Cool. Jan 19 23:31:15 Abyssul: it may prove to be simple, always on my backburner.. never got to it Jan 19 23:32:39 * dallashigh BRB Jan 19 23:33:11 zsoc: true doesn't lag but still spams the console in an unmanageable amount Jan 19 23:33:21 i can't event redirect the stuff to some file Jan 19 23:33:55 even level 2 is too much Jan 19 23:34:29 einalex: can't you ssh in with an option to log or something? Jan 19 23:34:35 Haha, dbsooner. Im submitting 2-3 more patches soon Jan 19 23:35:05 Abyssul: Cool.. It's a cinch to approve stuff now. Jan 19 23:35:05 have to study the ssh manpage to answer that question Jan 19 23:35:12 Awesome Jan 19 23:35:15 Abyssul: now it will only take me about 5 minutes. Jan 19 23:35:19 I just wait till I have more than 1 patch. Jan 19 23:35:20 Do we still have to worry about cert approval? Jan 19 23:35:26 someone needs to get ajames back in here Jan 19 23:35:32 Abyssul: what do you mean? Jan 19 23:35:46 When will we have to not worry about approving a patch to be installed on our phones Jan 19 23:35:54 The warning screen in Preware? Jan 19 23:36:07 Oh, that's something different. That SHOULD come with AUPT. Jan 19 23:36:15 what is aupt Jan 19 23:36:21 auto update Jan 19 23:36:29 well... all update* Jan 19 23:36:30 sorry Jan 19 23:36:32 But as far as the patch going from "submitted" to "in the feed", I still have to review the patch Jan 19 23:36:34 to make sure its safe. Jan 19 23:36:42 Indeed Jan 19 23:36:46 Auto Update Patch Technology Jan 19 23:36:53 meh... ^ Jan 19 23:36:56 when can we upgrade os without uninstalling all patches Jan 19 23:36:56 :D Jan 19 23:37:10 Towzzer: When AUPT is released. Jan 19 23:37:10 Later down the road Towzzer Jan 19 23:38:08 AUPt sounds great Jan 19 23:38:10 i'm excited Jan 19 23:38:12 Abyssul: did the email system work? Jan 19 23:38:22 I havnt gotten a confirmation Jan 19 23:38:27 that its been accepted Jan 19 23:38:30 Meaning, did you get an email when you submitted then when I confirmed? Jan 19 23:38:40 I only got one when I submitted it Jan 19 23:38:42 hmm Jan 19 23:38:44 einalex: try 'script' maybe? Jan 19 23:38:45 not when it got accepted Jan 19 23:38:50 Towzzer: get used to it. With webos internals there's neverending excitement ;) Jan 19 23:38:55 I think I forgot to put the email for accepted in there. Jan 19 23:38:58 HEhe Jan 19 23:39:12 AUPT is working alright so far for me :p Jan 19 23:39:15 Still some bugs Jan 19 23:39:51 yeah, mostly the fact that many patches aren't in the testing feed Jan 19 23:40:13 zsoc: because he hasn't merged recently. Jan 19 23:40:23 WHAT!? Jan 19 23:40:30 I gotta wait 5 minutes before I can submit again? Jan 19 23:40:34 lol Jan 19 23:40:36 Abyssul: no spam ;) Jan 19 23:40:39 Wasting my time here dBsooner... :p Jan 19 23:40:40 pm me your ip Jan 19 23:41:04 * zsoc makes a gui in vb to track find Abyssul's ip Jan 19 23:41:26 zsoc: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/359286/ here you are Jan 19 23:41:31 Or you can use whois Jan 19 23:42:24 hope that is enough Jan 19 23:42:27 Anyone here a mod on Precentral forums? Jan 19 23:42:36 or at least the ability to change titles lol Jan 19 23:43:06 einalex: yes very good, playbin calls decodebin2 it would seem Jan 19 23:43:48 einalex: in theory, we just need to binary patch the fileindexer and this is doable without a 3rd party app Jan 19 23:44:01 dbsooner: submitted my two patches Jan 19 23:44:16 einalex: worst case (or better case, maybe in the long run), we use sdl-cinema/video to make a native video player that supports all major filetypes Jan 19 23:44:51 On-device file conversion also works in ffmpeg, albeit a bit slow. Jan 19 23:45:04 would still be convenient. Jan 19 23:45:11 zsoc: it'd be much more elegant to make palms videoplayer support more formats Jan 19 23:45:15 dbsooner: we need the ability to see download counts on patches. Jan 19 23:45:37 einalex: I see it the opposite :) an sdl player with an evas front-end would be super elegant ;) Jan 19 23:45:56 einalex: the trick with your way is, we need to hax0r the fileindexer/picker... i hope you have your binutils out Jan 19 23:46:45 zsoc and einalex, im getting this wrong or are you trying to bring more codecs to the pre :o Jan 19 23:46:58 we are Jan 19 23:47:17 zsoc: depending n how that picker works... Jan 19 23:47:22 hm Jan 19 23:47:27 zsoc: well, actually if we can reverse engineer the indexer and make our own extension to it without binary patching it, then using the inbuilt UI Jan 19 23:47:31 it would be more elegant Jan 19 23:47:36 glorifiedg: many have had ogg and flac support working for months, but from command line. too much else has been going on to really pursue this Jan 19 23:47:56 having to open yet another app to play movies isn't great Jan 19 23:48:05 destinal1: i do not see that as a possibility, but i am not familiar with the fileindexer... i will ask jason :) Jan 19 23:48:20 destinal1: no no not another, the ONLY one Jan 19 23:48:33 and hw accelerated, in theory Jan 19 23:49:03 zsoc: not really my thing. I was thinking of realmedia for ex. Nice that you're working on that. It would be very nice. Jan 19 23:50:00 glorifiedg: real media? hmm.. wouldn't qtmux/demux be a better bet than ffmpeg? Jan 19 23:50:09 qtdemux i meant Jan 19 23:50:18 xvid support would be awesome Jan 19 23:50:20 and mp3 Jan 19 23:50:26 and flac and ogg Jan 19 23:50:29 yeeees Jan 19 23:50:31 unless i have my filetypes mixed up, which is possible Jan 19 23:50:31 my head hurts with all these unknown terms Jan 19 23:50:32 yes.... flac Jan 19 23:50:43 einalex: glac and ogg work. fine. i can play an ogg audio file right now :) Jan 19 23:50:46 h264 Jan 19 23:50:53 s/glac/flac Jan 19 23:51:00 heh Jan 19 23:51:00 zsoc: without modifications? Jan 19 23:51:02 Towzzer: h264 is what webos uses now? Jan 19 23:51:03 intel indeo Jan 19 23:51:03 thats a linux joke, isn't it Jan 19 23:51:20 i was joking, i wouldn't think the pre can decide h264 Jan 19 23:51:23 decode Jan 19 23:51:33 einalex: minor stuff, just to get some newer bug fixes backported Jan 19 23:51:45 it already does Jan 19 23:51:49 Towzzer: ? I'm confused, that's pretty much THE ONLY THING the pre can decode Jan 19 23:51:54 hehe Jan 19 23:51:57 nice! Jan 19 23:51:57 Towzzer Jan 19 23:51:57 h264 video? Jan 19 23:51:58 mpeg4 h264 is embebed on pre Jan 19 23:52:07 that's awesome Jan 19 23:52:07 h264 means a lot more than 720p/1080p HD content Jan 19 23:52:09 can it do 1080p? Jan 19 23:52:13 lol Jan 19 23:52:14 absolutely not :P Jan 19 23:52:19 doesn't it get h264 for basically free due to the GPU or whatever? Jan 19 23:52:21 Towzzer: with a 320x480 screen? Jan 19 23:52:28 resized? Jan 19 23:52:31 oh my god everyone stop talking Jan 19 23:52:33 zsoc: zunehd can :p Jan 19 23:52:50 Towzzer what will be the intrest to decode 1080p on a 320x480 screen? Jan 19 23:53:09 laziness in not needing to decode lawl Jan 19 23:53:10 some files are in 1080p Jan 19 23:53:10 glorifiedg: lag your phone ;) Jan 19 23:53:11 lol downscaling Jan 19 23:53:18 eheh Jan 19 23:53:28 Towzzer: just a bad idea.... ffmpeg for on-phone transcoding :) Jan 19 23:53:31 towzzer: you'll want to convert Jan 19 23:53:39 conversion reduces the quality Jan 19 23:53:52 not enough to matter when your source is /1080p/ Jan 19 23:53:59 zsoc: streeming to a tv by wireless lololol (that nice tv's on ces ) Jan 19 23:54:02 still , there is always a quality loss Jan 19 23:54:07 like when people convert aac to mp3 Jan 19 23:54:11 towzer: lacking the PIXELS physically reduces qualit Jan 19 23:54:12 y Jan 19 23:54:23 i do want to play xvid though Jan 19 23:54:27 yes, quality loss that is neglegible when downscaling Jan 19 23:54:31 rwhitby: the Makefiles... like the ones uses in /nonworking/... is that of similar nature to the ones you used for optware? and is there a 'standard' example of using a similar script, but from git? Jan 19 23:54:58 there is a quality loss because you are reencoding from one lossy format to another Jan 19 23:55:01 h264 -> h264 Jan 19 23:55:17 and you can't resize without reencoding Jan 19 23:55:17 and actually h264 may be designed to avoid losing quality when transcoding to itself. I don't know Jan 19 23:55:21 no Jan 19 23:55:23 it's not Jan 19 23:55:27 * CoolMatty facepalms @ Towzzer Jan 19 23:55:30 because that's not possible Jan 19 23:55:43 towzzer it IS possible Jan 19 23:55:56 not in a lossy format compression , the original data is lost Jan 19 23:55:58 this is one thing lossy codec engineers work on Jan 19 23:56:26 destinal-wirc1: You're actually 100% right. h264 loses no quality while transcoding for resolution downconvert Jan 19 23:56:29 not losing quality when doing certain operations Jan 19 23:56:53 for example mp3 sucks at transcoding to mp3 Jan 19 23:56:55 isn't a lossy codec by defintion lossy? what are we even talking about? Jan 19 23:57:01 every time you get loss Jan 19 23:57:07 does this even matter? you're not going to see the quality loss going from 1080p to 320x480 in the first place. the artifacts introduced would become completely invisible by the downscaling factor Jan 19 23:57:14 i've thought about a problem similar to this before .. but in the case of taking a raw output (wav from mp3) and knowing "if the source was an mp3 .. how would it compress itself?" Jan 19 23:57:14 Towzzer: go to #x264 and ask how they do it. they will say things no one can understand, but you'll get your answer. Jan 19 23:57:37 then trying to get the "compressed" version from the decompressed digital representation Jan 19 23:57:40 bpadalino: you might understand it :) a lot of math going on in that channel Jan 19 23:57:57 to avoid more loss Jan 19 23:58:01 * destinal-wirc1 knows random things like this :) Jan 19 23:58:17 not the how, but the what Jan 19 23:58:50 i looked around Jan 19 23:58:56 and the best i can find is this general statement Jan 19 23:58:56 In such a case, compression artifacts are cumulative; therefore transcoding causes a progressive loss of quality with each successive generation (this is known as digital generation loss). For this reason, it is generally discouraged unless unavoidable. Jan 19 23:59:01 * xcomp rewrites all the makefiles to fetch fresh code from SVN Jan 19 23:59:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcoding Jan 19 23:59:24 heh Jan 19 23:59:28 Towzzer: i'm referring specifically to h264 Jan 19 23:59:29 its like compressing vector drawings Jan 19 23:59:30 sorta Jan 19 23:59:43 there are particularly video codecs that act in a similar way Jan 19 23:59:49 and apparently, h264 is one of them O_o Jan 20 00:00:04 compressing vector drawings? vector is vector >.> Jan 20 00:00:12 *facepalm* Jan 20 00:00:18 what are you doing h264 -> h264? what is the transformation ? Jan 20 00:00:32 CoolMatty: so you have your vector graph saved with floating point coordinates Jan 20 00:00:47 now you strip all the digits after the colon Jan 20 00:00:48 voila Jan 20 00:00:58 lol Jan 20 00:01:00 lossy compression of vector graphics ;) Jan 20 00:01:02 vector is actually a great way to describe h264 imo, no expert tho Jan 20 00:01:11 i asked on x264 but i'm pretty sure you can't transcode without a loss Jan 20 00:01:22 this is something i've researched Jan 20 00:01:30 but you're continuing to ignore the fact that this a downscaling transcode, Towzzer Jan 20 00:01:41 Towzzer: the loss would be so minute compared to the ridiculously smaller filesize and speed improvements Jan 20 00:01:50 zsoc but what if it's encoded again Jan 20 00:01:54 to another phone Jan 20 00:01:58 why would you encode it again? Jan 20 00:02:03 10 years from now all mp3's and vidoes will be shit Jan 20 00:02:05 encode from the source again, not the re-encoded file Jan 20 00:02:07 i meant that vector is resized lossless :P Jan 20 00:02:12 because people keep going from lossy to lossy Jan 20 00:02:18 Towzzer: so start using lossless Jan 20 00:02:21 Towzzer: ask them if they know in what resolution our eyes see. :) Jan 20 00:02:28 FLAC your audio and HUFFYUV your video Jan 20 00:02:34 we don't see dots Jan 20 00:02:50 but? Jan 20 00:03:00 I just like to keep things in the highest quality format Jan 20 00:03:06 and resize on playback Jan 20 00:03:06 Towzzer: keep an archive copy Jan 20 00:03:09 i guess you have to define what you mean by seeing Jan 20 00:03:10 i have a nice 1080p collection Jan 20 00:03:10 ÜgÜ Jan 20 00:03:14 :) just kiding Jan 20 00:03:15 * zsoc HUFFS, and he YUVs, and he blows your argument down Jan 20 00:03:17 Towzzer: don't carry gigabytes of useless data on your phone Jan 20 00:03:25 Towzzer: or you can just do the re-encode, and keep the source as well so you never lose anything Jan 20 00:03:29 true Jan 20 00:03:51 heh Jan 20 00:03:58 you can't fit a 1080p rip on the pre O_o Jan 20 00:04:04 true Jan 20 00:04:06 at least not in the standard sizes :> Jan 20 00:04:08 if you're so worried about quality loss, your video shouldn't be in h264 in the first place Jan 20 00:04:10 what if i carry a hard drive Jan 20 00:04:11 rip it to HUFFYUV Jan 20 00:04:11 and a battery Jan 20 00:04:13 we don't see dots | I was kidding but we actualy see micro dots called atoms eheh, so probably there is a resolution in our eyes Jan 20 00:04:23 why is this even being discussed? Jan 20 00:04:25 why don't you just carry a whole laptop >.> Jan 20 00:04:28 glorifiedg: we see atoms? holy crap Jan 20 00:04:36 who's atom ? Jan 20 00:04:36 glorifiedg: analog things don't have resolution Jan 20 00:04:37 Abyssul: that's very sensible of you :) Jan 20 00:04:39 or even better, just carry your whole workstation with you Jan 20 00:04:42 in terms of pixels Jan 20 00:04:45 :P Jan 20 00:04:46 and a theater projector Jan 20 00:05:02 lol but you can think of a atom as a pixel eheheh Jan 20 00:05:05 35mm original film negatives Jan 20 00:05:07 that's my archive Jan 20 00:05:07 glorifiedg: in forms of cells sure there is. but what you see is an interpretation of your mind. and it sure as hell has no pixels *g* Jan 20 00:05:09 destinal1: analog things do have a _comparative_ pixel value based on how much information our eyes/brain can take in :) Jan 20 00:05:22 yeah film negatives never deteriorate Jan 20 00:05:33 they last longer than data stored on any medium today Jan 20 00:05:34 lots of atom pixels in my brain right now lol Jan 20 00:05:40 zsoc: eh, you can measure in physical size the smallest things we can perceive Jan 20 00:05:46 but that's not the same Jan 20 00:06:03 anyway Jan 20 00:06:04 Towzzer: my audio cds from the 80s are in better condition than my cassette tapes from the same time, I know that. Jan 20 00:06:06 WEBOS INTERNALS Jan 20 00:06:09 lawl Jan 20 00:06:17 right but those cds will be dead soon, maybe 50 years Jan 20 00:06:28 and digital data is harder to recover than damaged analog data Jan 20 00:06:35 what are we talking about? lololol Jan 20 00:06:39 not #compression Jan 20 00:06:40 sorry Jan 20 00:06:42 :P Jan 20 00:06:44 #porn Jan 20 00:06:44 continue on palm pre Jan 20 00:06:46 takers? Jan 20 00:06:47 i'll help Jan 20 00:06:53 destinal where is new terminal Jan 20 00:07:02 Towzzer: you didn't post it yet? Jan 20 00:07:09 i'm too busy complaining Jan 20 00:07:12 what about you? Jan 20 00:07:19 back to the codec thing: real media would be nice since many series are being uploaded in this format Jan 20 00:07:21 so, the original discussion was how are we going to implement projector and optical audio out for our pre-theater system, righT? that's on topic! :p Jan 20 00:07:23 Towzzer: waiting for you to release the new version Jan 20 00:07:28 come on, get to it Jan 20 00:07:44 i'm weak and need others to do things for me Jan 20 00:07:46 help Jan 20 00:07:52 :P Jan 20 00:08:55 Towzzer: so bulk up, man! anyway I'm just kind of going back and regression testing commits, which I should have some time to do later Jan 20 00:09:05 nice Jan 20 00:09:19 So.... back on topic, I need PDK support :) Jan 20 00:09:24 During configure: "If you meant to cross compile, use `--host'." Jan 20 00:09:26 some time a long time ago a breakage occurred that wouldn't be observed until 1.3.5 Jan 20 00:09:39 zsoc: what are you building? Jan 20 00:09:41 eheh I should be studying for tomorrows exam but this codec thing its a thrill Jan 20 00:09:58 destinal: oh, is this expecting? it's nothing 'made' to be compiled in this environment. Jan 20 00:10:02 exams > irc .. you really should study, or you'll be stuck in school much longer Jan 20 00:10:04 s/expecting/expected Jan 20 00:10:22 zsoc: eh, not really Jan 20 00:10:36 zsoc: if I can reproduce maybe I can help troubleshoot -- what's the project? Jan 20 00:10:44 destinal1: will's vba Jan 20 00:11:24 ^^^^ that guy Jan 20 00:11:41 zsoc: games/visualboyadvance.git ? Jan 20 00:11:52 destinal1: right. do i need to set -rpath? Jan 20 00:12:19 destinal1: he has a config.sh script that makes sets some variables, all of which look incorrect for PDK environment Jan 20 00:12:24 lemme check. I think dtzWill|away doesn't use the PDK Jan 20 00:12:27 bpadalino: at least more 3 years. ;) this class it's kind of easy Jan 20 00:12:31 because of course he doesn't use it :) Jan 20 00:13:40 destinal1: nevermind, it was something silly :P my fault Jan 20 00:13:48 greetings Jan 20 00:13:51 what was the issue ? Jan 20 00:14:14 dBsooner, ping Jan 20 00:15:05 I am not sure if this is the right place to ask this question, please let me know if it is not. Jan 20 00:15:26 go Jan 20 00:15:32 is this about the birds and the bees? Jan 20 00:15:35 zsoc: I set LIBS, CFLAGS, ./configure and make, and I think it's ok Jan 20 00:15:54 I have installed the latest Preware and from there installed several patches to standard Palm software (e.g. Email/Calendar) Jan 20 00:16:01 destinal1: yep, well i just need zlib Jan 20 00:16:17 after that I am not longer capable of installing any software from the Palm channel Jan 20 00:16:20 destinal1: I suppose I should make these magical 'Makefile' thingies for each lib i run into i need? Jan 20 00:16:37 i think the feed is going to preware now Jan 20 00:16:38 zsoc: maybe it's not staged, I downloaded palm's zlib package and build and installed it inside the sb2 shell Jan 20 00:16:48 cfilin: a few things are possible. you might try first running the emergency migration helper Jan 20 00:17:07 destinal1: Yeah, I get the idea. I'm assuming rod would prefer if we made it 'stage compatible' Jan 20 00:17:28 If I attempt to install something from app catalog, I end up with a situation where the icon for the new app is shown in the lanuncher and there is a start next to tie icon. Jan 20 00:17:33 zsoc: zlib should have a Makefile in cross-compile Jan 20 00:17:38 also is SDL_ttf staged? Jan 20 00:18:01 zsoc, what are you building? Jan 20 00:18:22 don't think sdl-ttf s staged Jan 20 00:18:34 clicking on the icon bring up app catalog "My applications" with message that the application failed to install. Jan 20 00:18:53 dBsooner: sorry if im asking something that had already been asked but its possible to have the patches in browser mega mix separetly? Jan 20 00:18:55 morning Jan 20 00:19:06 rwhitby: morning Jan 20 00:19:10 egaudet: I'm trying to help will debug some things with vba, so i figured it would be nice to get it working in the PDK, so others can help too if they want Jan 20 00:19:13 morning rwhitby Jan 20 00:19:20 what should I try to diagnose the problem? any log files on Pre? Jan 20 00:19:22 WIDK Jan 20 00:19:24 FYI: I'm going to have limited availability for webos-internals stuff over the next 2 weeks. business trip to Japan. Jan 20 00:19:27 we changed to WIDK Jan 20 00:19:32 xcomp: thank you, i see it now Jan 20 00:20:07 rwhitby: zlib and some of palm's libsdl stuff isn't staged in WIDK. I'm sure you'll say that I'm welcome to fix it ;) but I don't quite understand the staging environment makefiles yet Jan 20 00:20:10 rwhitby: perhaps we can raise funds so you dont have to go eheheh Jan 20 00:20:32 destinal, zlib is Jan 20 00:20:33 I guess I should start learning :) Jan 20 00:20:38 rwhitby: nihongo ga hanashimasu ka? Jan 20 00:20:46 So if there is something which could be a roadblock to development, and I am the sole point of failure, now is the time to identify it and get it fixed. Jan 20 00:20:47 destinal1: it's advisable to use the Makefile in crosscompile so that you're sure you stage only what is required and use palm built binaries Jan 20 00:20:53 what else needs staging for vba? Jan 20 00:21:32 xcomp, that's just build time, they will run with the palm built ones regardless Jan 20 00:21:45 unless you install a new one to pre Jan 20 00:22:01 The only example of single point at the moment is updating the testing feed, and destinal should have the access rights to do that if necessary. Jan 20 00:22:12 *nods* Jan 20 00:22:16 good deal Jan 20 00:22:23 egaudet: true, although it also helps to sort things when installing Jan 20 00:22:49 destinal1: i'm surprised by that really, you're a super smart guy and these staging Makefiles are pretty straight forward, now that i'm poking at them :) Jan 20 00:22:49 I generally just bundle the lib dir and exclude anything with a duplicate in rootfs Jan 20 00:22:58 destinal1: the makefile targets are there for webos-internals-testing and webos-patches-testing (this one is run on mason in the major_upgrade directory) Jan 20 00:23:25 zsoc: uh, I have to admit that I haven't really started digging through them... :-/ Jan 20 00:23:35 destinal1: ah, well now you know it's easy ;) Jan 20 00:23:42 webos-internals-testing target can be run from any machine which can build preware/build.git Jan 20 00:24:03 egaudet: the Makefile avoid actually building the libraries, just install headers and support files Jan 20 00:24:10 *makefiles Jan 20 00:24:14 what is wrong with my english today Jan 20 00:24:26 destinal1, PuffTheMagic and jaques can all add new git repos Jan 20 00:24:29 xcomp: other makefiles stage the binaries from doctor though so we can build Jan 20 00:24:32 egaudet too Jan 20 00:24:40 I can? Jan 20 00:24:56 did not know that :) Jan 20 00:24:59 egaudet: yep, destinal1 can show you how Jan 20 00:25:03 cool Jan 20 00:25:08 destinal1: yeah -- generally if the binary is in the doctor, we don't build it Jan 20 00:25:35 right there's no need to build any libs that we already have Jan 20 00:25:43 xcomp: hey uh.. have you used the zlib makefile? y'know.. to verify it works? Jan 20 00:25:45 and I'll be checking in regularly, but just not able to stay for long each time. Jan 20 00:25:47 unless we were modifying and releasing Jan 20 00:25:57 rwhitby, when do you leave Jan 20 00:26:05 zsoc: it's a dependency for a couple of my libs... Jan 20 00:26:24 everything in packages/ should work Jan 20 00:26:29 egaudet: sat, but lots to prepare Jan 20 00:26:35 anything that doesn't should be in nonworking/ Jan 20 00:26:45 xcomp: ok... so what am i doing wrong? Jan 20 00:26:58 zsoc, what are you doing period? Jan 20 00:27:05 egaudet: it's a sekret Jan 20 00:27:08 lol Jan 20 00:27:12 clearly embarassing myself Jan 20 00:27:22 cd /srv/preware/cross-compile; make Jan 20 00:28:09 egaudet: i have to make all? i guess i suppose i should Jan 20 00:28:15 egaudet: i see now Jan 20 00:28:18 zsoc: I don't know... make stage works without issue in that dir for me Jan 20 00:28:25 zsoc: oh yeah, make stage Jan 20 00:28:32 "make" will simply download and stop, I think Jan 20 00:28:46 zsoc, I think it's best to stage everything but yea cd packages/zlib ; make stage shoudl work fine Jan 20 00:29:51 * zsoc scratches head Jan 20 00:29:57 Oh, I see. Jan 20 00:30:14 * dBsooner can add git repo's too.... ? Jan 20 00:30:14 I was assuming I have not ALREADY staged zlib, where in fact, I had. Jan 20 00:30:30 zsoc: you need to set CFLAGS and LIBS Jan 20 00:30:45 destinal: Is there a sort of "standing" for these things? we're using.. eh.. i'll just go look Jan 20 00:30:46 you should not need to set anything Jan 20 00:30:49 /usr/local/include? Jan 20 00:30:57 s/standing/standard Jan 20 00:31:02 egaudet: for vba the configure misses zlib Jan 20 00:31:11 oh I thought you meant for zlib Jan 20 00:31:15 unless you have export CFLAGS=-I/usr/include Jan 20 00:31:26 and maybe export LIBS="-Wl,-rpath-link=/usr/local/lib -L/usr/local/lib" but that may not be needed Jan 20 00:31:28 is vba in a git repo? Jan 20 00:31:32 * egaudet goes to look at configure Jan 20 00:31:55 egaudet: yeah, games/visualboyadvance.git Jan 20 00:32:11 it configures fine for me with those CFLAGS Jan 20 00:32:31 err /usr/local/include I mean Jan 20 00:32:32 doh Jan 20 00:32:36 Yeah, I must have typo'd my flags somewhere. Jan 20 00:32:55 Shouldn't sb2 set those variables automagically? Jan 20 00:33:03 zsoc: negative Jan 20 00:33:27 zsoc: usually configure scripts RUNNING in sb2 will set those Jan 20 00:33:28 why? Jan 20 00:33:35 i suppose Jan 20 00:33:46 but those should be the same flags we always use Jan 20 00:33:51 they should be in the wiki somewhere Jan 20 00:34:46 zsoc: so add them to the PDK page Jan 20 00:34:49 :) Jan 20 00:35:25 what's going on with vba? :) Jan 20 00:35:26 LDFLAGS works for vba Jan 20 00:35:28 along with the syntax to get into the sb2 sandbox :) Jan 20 00:35:36 there's a config.sh for making sure it works for vba Jan 20 00:35:40 cflags/etc Jan 20 00:35:44 dtzWill|away: i'm making sure it compiles on the PDK, seems good besides my own stupidity Jan 20 00:36:03 zsoc: okay. feel free to ping me, i do have a tiny bit of practice building it :D :) Jan 20 00:36:14 dtzWill|away: I didn't want to bug you :) you were away ;) Jan 20 00:36:18 zsoc: but sounds like you got it under control and everyone else is more than useful Jan 20 00:36:21 fair enough :):) Jan 20 00:36:27 errr everyone else is more than capable is what i meant Jan 20 00:36:28 dtzWill|away: besides, my problems were pretty much just environmental, not vba specific.. Jan 20 00:36:50 kk, just say issues building vba in backlog briefly wanted to make sure no one was wasting time on something i could help with Jan 20 00:36:54 :) Jan 20 00:36:58 ALSO Jan 20 00:37:09 i'm rewriting the arm emulation with arm assembly haha Jan 20 00:37:30 don't have time to finish today but so far it's working and each group of functions i move over helps a little. Jan 20 00:37:44 hard to accurately measure speed, but i'm excited for the end result :) Jan 20 00:37:54 dtzWill|away: no Jan 20 00:37:54 anyway hf with vba/whatever your doing Jan 20 00:37:57 dtzWill|away: just stop Jan 20 00:38:11 zsoc: LOL. why? Jan 20 00:38:34 dtzWill|away: you've already done some complex things using _two_ libraries you didn't know prior to this, now you want to start porting arm asm? Jan 20 00:38:35 zsoc: so far it already drastically reduces instruction count and for the small set i've implemented has ~3-5% on performance Jan 20 00:38:58 dtzWill|away: What exactly are you "rewriting"? Getting rid of the THUMB stuff? Jan 20 00:39:23 zsoc: i seem to be doing fine, and i wrote tests to loop through 'interesting' values and check flags etc, and my implementations seem okay--the ones i've tested anyway Jan 20 00:39:52 dtzWill|away: i'm just trying to stop you from being too cool is all, I have to think about my image Jan 20 00:39:56 zsoc: synthetic testing was disappointing but disassembling the result shows a crazy smaller instruction count (~40->~6) and timings suggest it should work well Jan 20 00:40:00 haha Jan 20 00:40:11 zsoc: yeah i'm rewriting thumb.h and arm-new.h Jan 20 00:40:19 dtzWill is hard. core. Jan 20 00:40:38 zsoc: i actually am writing new files that are conditionally included in those, but same difference. rewriting their functionality Jan 20 00:40:41 dtzWill|away: what's wrong with the old arm-new.h? Was it optimized for older arm chips or something similar? Jan 20 00:40:46 or just poorly written? Jan 20 00:40:50 timepants: sarcasm isn't appreciated, i'm doing what i can :) Jan 20 00:40:58 I HAVE HEAT AGAIN! Jan 20 00:40:59 zsoc: there were two implementations for each Jan 20 00:40:59 isn't it written in C so it would work on x86? Jan 20 00:41:08 zsoc: there are x86 asm impls and c impls Jan 20 00:41:16 dtzWill|away, sarcasm! D: noooo not at all Jan 20 00:41:21 D: Jan 20 00:41:28 zsoc: obv x86 doesn't wokr, and c sucks ass particularly for things like flag calculations Jan 20 00:41:50 i just think its cool that you're investing so much into making this work Jan 20 00:42:11 zsoc: shifts, rotates, are terrible in c and single cycle in asm, particularly since EVERY instruction we emulate .. exists on the guest cpu Jan 20 00:42:19 dtzWill|away: er... wasnt thumb.h and arm-new.h the.. /arm/ implementation? Jan 20 00:42:19 timepants: haha well it's fun :). Jan 20 00:42:29 zsoc: it's implementing arm instructions in the guest cpu Jan 20 00:42:36 oic Jan 20 00:42:59 zsoc: so it implements arm.. and so writing arm asm to match it isn't too hard but you have to be careful with values/flags/etc. Jan 20 00:43:26 (since you can't just call equiv heh since we have flags and state of our own to maintain) Jan 20 00:44:30 you've been busy Jan 20 00:44:57 zsoc: haha. i have experience with virtualization and emulation so this isn't too far outta my existing domain Jan 20 00:45:07 zsoc: arm is new, emulation is not. Jan 20 00:45:08 PuffTheMagic: wow, it's 34F where you are, you must not have been having fun during the lack of heating Jan 20 00:45:08 dtzWill|away: so how many of the CFLAGS in your config script are necessary to maintain the level of optimization? Because it configures without them but not with them (I assume it overwrites any good ldflags would do?) Jan 20 00:45:37 yours wont configure with those cflags? they're just -f* and some -I's..... o_O Jan 20 00:45:48 destinal1: it only got down to 63... usually keep it at 66 Jan 20 00:45:58 PuffTheMagic: ah, decent insulation then Jan 20 00:46:01 zsoc: the biggest are the cpu setting, the -O3 and the -ffast-math/-fsingle-precision. Jan 20 00:46:02 that's good Jan 20 00:46:10 zsoc: so, errr... all of them are important afaict Jan 20 00:46:14 dtzWill|away: configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs. :) Jan 20 00:46:23 zsoc: http://pandorawiki.org/Floating_Point_Optimization Jan 20 00:46:31 bookmarked :) Jan 20 00:46:34 zsoc: show me the config.log and where it's failing and i can help Jan 20 00:46:35 nice job dtzWill|away :D Jan 20 00:46:47 CoolMatty: ty. what'd i do? :P Jan 20 00:46:53 asm optimizations Jan 20 00:47:00 don't forget --funroll-loops! (old gentoo joke) Jan 20 00:47:07 dtzWill|away: hey, Cortex-A8 optimization article. nice. Jan 20 00:47:12 timepants: kk well i really am not sure what you're getting at, but if you have suggestions i'm always welcome to listen/learn :) Jan 20 00:47:15 CoolMatty: don't worry, it's in there :D Jan 20 00:47:19 destinal1: yep. Jan 20 00:47:27 CoolMatty: haha yeah it's there. but it's already part of -O3 iirc so shrug Jan 20 00:47:36 dtzWill|away: I think he was getting it "You're really awsome" Jan 20 00:47:45 s/it/at Jan 20 00:47:57 i'm not really getting at anything D: i wish i was as motivated Jan 20 00:48:04 timepants: i just don't know how to let go Jan 20 00:48:04 looks like everything is building smooth out of svn now Jan 20 00:48:10 -O3 is not good Jan 20 00:48:12 use -O2 Jan 20 00:48:21 O3 breaks vba pretty bad Jan 20 00:48:22 use -O9 -funroll-loops -fskip-instructions Jan 20 00:48:24 i tried that Jan 20 00:48:24 or -Os Jan 20 00:48:29 xcomp: haha Jan 20 00:48:30 -Os yay Jan 20 00:48:44 PuffTheMagic: I think that should be determined empircially with a particular program? Jan 20 00:48:49 dtzWill|away: http://pastebin.com/fd2b9fb1 Jan 20 00:48:50 dtzWill|away: wow, we really should switch to 2009q1 Jan 20 00:48:54 PuffTheMagic: although I haven't tried -Os, I'm not super convinced about it Jan 20 00:48:56 -O2 has all the good stuff in it Jan 20 00:49:05 hardfp support = win Jan 20 00:49:11 dtzWill|away: it helps for cpus with really small cache Jan 20 00:49:17 destinal1: well only if we have libs that support hardfp.... Jan 20 00:49:51 destinal1: i would imagine 2009q1 uses an incompatible version of libc? Jan 20 00:49:53 PuffTheMagic: understood, maybe you can determine that in your head, but with these things I kinda handwave the system as being inherently too complex to analyze that way and just try reasonable things. Jan 20 00:50:10 timepants: -O3 doesn't break vba? Jan 20 00:50:11 zsoc: I don't think so Jan 20 00:50:23 dtzWill|away, i lost 10% when i did that D: Jan 20 00:50:27 timepants: if you're trying to build it with 2007q3/2008q1 see the note in the config.sh/git log indicating that that doesn't work Jan 20 00:50:32 dtzWill|away: this is from using gentoo for 10 years, building everything from source Jan 20 00:50:39 -O3 brings the pain Jan 20 00:50:49 timepants: interesting. well hey if someone finds a better set of passes i'm sold Jan 20 00:51:17 PuffTheMagic: slackware, write my own build scripts ;), or slackbuilds. not too different is all i'm trying to say Jan 20 00:51:18 it looks like just avoid 2008q3 Jan 20 00:51:22 PuffTheMagic: i aboslutely believe you Jan 20 00:51:32 --optimize-to-oblivion Jan 20 00:51:35 PuffTheMagic: I just am saying hey let's try it. takes no time and might as well Jan 20 00:51:40 where's 2010q1 darnit Jan 20 00:51:45 CoolMatty: see xcomp's joke above :) Jan 20 00:51:49 the magic bullet release Jan 20 00:52:03 PuffTheMagic: i especially don't have experience super optimizing though I think that's mostly the gentoo crowd's hobby Jan 20 00:52:05 dtzWill|away: benchmarks suck Jan 20 00:52:07 PuffTheMagic: so I concede the point :) Jan 20 00:52:12 timepants: they probably go by financial quarters Jan 20 00:52:22 so 2010q1 really is like 2010 q3 Jan 20 00:52:47 dtzWill|away: well, i have spent time playing with cflags in the past, i've learned that 99% of the time you never notice a difference Jan 20 00:52:47 PuffTheMagic: i mean try it with vba. since that's all that matters here anyway Jan 20 00:53:09 yea Jan 20 00:53:13 wheee, all efl libs building perfectly Jan 20 00:53:26 xcomp: excellent Jan 20 00:53:26 I'll stress test it with pokemon crystal, and if it corrupts my save I will cry horribly Jan 20 00:53:27 ok ... will put this stuff back in git later tonight Jan 20 00:53:31 xcomp: even elementary Jan 20 00:53:31 PuffTheMagic: that's why normally (on my desktop) i just use -O2, but here where we need every cycle I just wanna try it. shrug, it's not a big deal Jan 20 00:53:35 ? Jan 20 00:53:37 PuffTheMagic: yes, all straight out of svn Jan 20 00:53:44 xcomp: great Jan 20 00:53:44 no packaging anymore Jan 20 00:53:46 CoolMatty: stress test what? Jan 20 00:53:50 none of my asm stuff is in git Jan 20 00:53:51 -O3 Jan 20 00:53:53 it's local in my own branch Jan 20 00:53:55 I know Jan 20 00:53:58 CoolMatty: it doesn't break anything Jan 20 00:54:01 xcomp: no packaging any more? Jan 20 00:54:04 CoolMatty: -O3 is what is in 1.0.6 Jan 20 00:54:08 CoolMatty: in preware Jan 20 00:54:11 oh didn't know that Jan 20 00:54:14 PuffTheMagic: makefile will pull sources straight from svn Jan 20 00:54:25 CoolMatty: although timepants claims it's slowing it down or at least did on his toolchain/test so I'll look into that Jan 20 00:54:28 you can even run make update afterwards Jan 20 00:54:29 xcomp: live makefiles ftw! Jan 20 00:54:35 thought i tried it but hey i'll make sure :) Jan 20 00:54:36 well i might have blown it, i added a couple of other switches in too Jan 20 00:54:46 also dtzWill|away, remember when I mentioned pulseaudio still doing work when you turned sound off ingame? Jan 20 00:54:46 so if you insist that o3 is good, i'll concede it was one of the others Jan 20 00:54:49 xcomp: we should have just used gentoo ;) Jan 20 00:55:08 heh ... well, bbl Jan 20 00:55:15 timepants: honestly i do'nt remember. not as sysmtematic about this as i'd like Jan 20 00:55:18 timepants: so i'll try something else Jan 20 00:55:29 CoolMatty: yep. pm me if you want to expand/remind me Jan 20 00:55:33 dtzWill|away: I also noticed today that even when vba is minimized, pulseaudio still uses the same CPU. which I find odd, as when it's minimized, vba emulation is paused Jan 20 00:55:39 I got to respect my nick and get outta here Jan 20 00:55:41 CoolMatty: no idea. Jan 20 00:55:44 but good info Jan 20 00:55:55 yeah just passing that on Jan 20 00:56:02 good chat :D. :). take care guys i'll be back later. Jan 20 00:56:06 cya Jan 20 00:56:07 alrighty :p Jan 20 00:57:11 dtzWill|away: wait, is what's in git the same as what's packaged and on preware? Jan 20 00:58:24 we really need to get to building out of git and packaging so that that's always true Jan 20 00:59:03 I think he said he was doing these optimizations on his local system, not on the git Jan 20 00:59:15 it's in git Jan 20 00:59:18 CoolMatty: oh, you mean non-released optimizations Jan 20 00:59:21 *nods* Jan 20 01:00:13 I need to change my nickname. I picked this stupid name when I was 8 years old >.> Jan 20 01:00:49 mattlooc Jan 20 01:01:01 sounds too much like matlock Jan 20 01:01:02 >.> Jan 20 01:01:05 i know :D Jan 20 01:01:52 Just noticed that the Mute Icon patch DIDN'T ask me to verify the install. Has the era of signed packages begun? Jan 20 01:02:25 > Use NEON intrinsics / ASM when ever you find a bottlenecking FP function. You can do better than the compiler. Jan 20 01:02:38 guess it's time to learn ARM assembly and NEON :) Jan 20 01:03:38 zsoc, you adding libsdl-ttf or shall I Jan 20 01:04:10 egaudet: unless you don't have the time. it would take me twice as long and i'd probably break it :D Jan 20 01:04:24 * egaudet is already in the process Jan 20 01:04:40 egaudet: i still can't get vba to build with the same cflags used in the repo.. i think that's sort of important Jan 20 01:04:57 zsoc, it's because you are missing ttf Jan 20 01:05:23 there, my "new" name. >.> just to make everyone confused Jan 20 01:05:24 wb Jan 20 01:05:34 ~CoolMatty Jan 20 01:05:35 egaudet: i don't think that would cause "configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs." :p Jan 20 01:06:00 destinal1: infobot fail :p Jan 20 01:06:01 ~CoolMatty is now going by VicentLaw Jan 20 01:06:02 destinal1: okay Jan 20 01:06:14 you spelled it wrong lmao Jan 20 01:06:14 ~CoolMatty Jan 20 01:06:16 i heard coolmatty is now going by VicentLaw Jan 20 01:06:18 zsoc, that would be due to missing --with-sdl-prefix=/usr/local ? Jan 20 01:06:29 i got that error from having a certain cflag Jan 20 01:06:33 i'm trying to remember what it was Jan 20 01:06:38 ~no, CoolMatty is now going by VincentLaw Jan 20 01:06:56 infobot: no, CoolMatty is now going by VincentLaw. Jan 20 01:06:57 destinal1: okay Jan 20 01:07:03 fixed typo Jan 20 01:07:20 ~destinal Jan 20 01:07:21 [destinal] a hoopy frood who always knows where his towel is. also maintainer of terminal and suspected of sed abuse in several jurisdictions. Jan 20 01:07:30 ~egaudet Jan 20 01:07:57 ~zsoc Jan 20 01:07:58 methinks zsoc is the OWHE, original webos hacker extraordinaire, and don't forget it. Jan 20 01:08:04 ugh it was either fomit-frame-pointer or ffreestanding Jan 20 01:08:05 lol Jan 20 01:08:15 egaudet: same result Jan 20 01:08:58 zsoc you are the greatest? Jan 20 01:09:24 Towzzer: no? Jan 20 01:09:25 zsoc, i got that same error and fixed it Jan 20 01:09:36 but can't remember and now my staging is all gone since i'm getting ttf in there i wiped it Jan 20 01:09:51 egaudet: lol ok, must be something obvious Jan 20 01:11:31 Towzzer: zsoc did the first DOOM on the pre, for which engadget called him "webOS hacker extraordinaire". It stuck. (mostly as the acronym WHE) Jan 20 01:12:11 wow Jan 20 01:12:15 Towzzer: and by "did" he means im opportunistic, not the best :) Jan 20 01:12:21 destinal, oh my god did you hear about my tab idea Jan 20 01:13:02 zsoc: I've said it before, but people who actually do stuff win. :) Jan 20 01:13:10 Towzzer: what? tab idea? Jan 20 01:13:16 destinal , can you set power button to be the tab Jan 20 01:13:19 for auto complete in terminal Jan 20 01:13:27 Towzzer: no, no, and no Jan 20 01:13:31 how comes? Jan 20 01:13:47 because the device has claimed power button to put the device into sleep Jan 20 01:14:04 can't you override that while terminal is open Jan 20 01:14:14 or what about volume or that middle button Jan 20 01:15:22 Towzzer: we can also hear some of them, but afaik there's no good way to take them away that wouldn't cause large problems Jan 20 01:15:33 they would be so perfect for tab Jan 20 01:15:41 what about tap screen for tab Jan 20 01:15:50 just make the terminal window a hidden button Jan 20 01:16:22 I find control-i isn't that hard, but maybe a drag right would work Jan 20 01:16:27 yeahhhhh Jan 20 01:16:30 on gesture would be easiest Jan 20 01:16:40 no middle button though : ( Jan 20 01:16:40 is there a way to fix a screwed up ipkg list.. if I list_installed or load preware I only show ten packages installed. Jan 20 01:16:51 zsoc, look in your config.log for the -true- error Jan 20 01:18:54 I know meta-doctor has no guarantees, but if it works successfully, down the line, can the pre or pixi still be activated at Sprint? Jan 20 01:19:06 zsoc, can you pull cross-compile.git please and verify ttf works Jan 20 01:19:13 rwhitby thought it might have something to do with catalog and preware doing something at the same time. Jan 20 01:19:35 hmagoo, if the status file is hosed you are probably sol Jan 20 01:19:38 LoneStar99: using metadoctor doesn't prevent such Jan 20 01:19:57 LoneStar99: you may or may not have to redoctor later Jan 20 01:20:45 hmagoo: looking into that later, ipkg has locking built in, so I'm not so sure that's the reason any more. Jan 20 01:20:45 but it doesn't make any basic changes to the device Jan 20 01:20:52 hmm, only other thing I did weird was try that appscoop app Jan 20 01:21:15 not sure if I installed something with it Jan 20 01:21:16 rwhitby: did you confirm even in -o it locks? Jan 20 01:21:21 hmagoo: that shouldn't affect it Jan 20 01:21:36 hmagoo, have you used strictly preware and when was the first symptom? Jan 20 01:21:44 check your status file for corruption Jan 20 01:21:52 destinal1: got the pre less than 24 hours ago... need to make sure it will not turn into a paperweight Jan 20 01:21:55 /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/lib/ipkg/status Jan 20 01:22:15 I will get on pc right now and check it out. Jan 20 01:22:19 egaudet: finish aupt! Jan 20 01:23:30 dBsooner, does enable landscape messaging install OK in 1.3.5? Jan 20 01:23:38 yes Jan 20 01:23:50 all patches install ok in 1.3.5 Jan 20 01:24:16 in fact, I use landscape messaging. Jan 20 01:24:38 egaudet: configure: failed program was:| /* confdefs.h. */ Jan 20 01:24:50 configure:2577: error: C compiler cannot create executables Jan 20 01:24:57 i'm starting to think it's me Jan 20 01:26:24 zsoc, no that's a lie Jan 20 01:26:39 you will see somewhere above something liek "cannot find -lz" Jan 20 01:27:14 dBsooner, pm check Jan 20 01:27:15 ahh Jan 20 01:27:16 destinal1: it may well be the case that the version of ipkg which palm uses (which is pretty old) does not have locking Jan 20 01:27:30 destinal1: since I can't find it in the source easily Jan 20 01:27:39 egaudet: yeah the status file gets ugly, not very long either Jan 20 01:27:47 pkg manager with no locking? eww Jan 20 01:28:17 Package: org.webosinternals.patches.app-launcher-4x4-icon�*ݓ�Version: 1.�߮��Depends: org.webosint (example) Jan 20 01:29:17 so you'll be the 4th to report corrupted status file i believe Jan 20 01:30:06 why does it only contain info about several packages? Jan 20 01:30:46 it was corrupted Jan 20 01:30:58 ok, no way known to fix this? doctor? Jan 20 01:31:12 egaudet: so my issue with vba... -pg flag explodes it. that means I can't use gprof, no? Jan 20 01:31:28 egaudet: 4? Jan 20 01:31:36 hmagoo1: apparently there's a _really_ fun way to fix it Jan 20 01:31:44 rwhitby, yes Jan 20 01:31:56 hmm - 4 means it's a widespread problem :-( Jan 20 01:31:57 is there a relevant thread? Jan 20 01:32:44 rwhitby, not so rare that it's not a problem, but I don't think widespread Jan 20 01:33:00 I'm talking over the course of a month Jan 20 01:33:26 zsoc, what is gprof? Jan 20 01:33:32 zsoc: fun way? Jan 20 01:33:48 hmagoo1, everything is always fun around here Jan 20 01:33:57 egaudet: .... ? runtime profiling, it needs the -pg flag.. pretty standard i thought Jan 20 01:34:04 ahh Jan 20 01:34:35 Now I need to try to compile something else with that flag and see if it's the tool chain or not Jan 20 01:34:41 hmagoo1, so the fix is to reinstall all the packages OR reinstall all the package ipkg data via command line Jan 20 01:34:43 is "patch" a program in Linux? Jan 20 01:34:51 LoneStar99, yes Jan 20 01:35:14 egaudet: we may be able to recreate status from info/*.control Jan 20 01:35:32 but it will take some time which I don't have Jan 20 01:35:41 what does it do? need the equivelent in FreeBSD but impossible to search... all results are about patches "fixes" Jan 20 01:35:44 similarly for the fix Jan 20 01:35:48 egaudet: hrm, suppose I could look at the apps/patches and reinstall all the ones I see in cryptofs Jan 20 01:36:10 LoneStar99: install a Ubuntu 9.10 server virtual machine. we do not support anything else. Jan 20 01:36:23 (unless you are a Linux expert already) Jan 20 01:36:49 rwhitby, good idea I will look into the *.control recreation Jan 20 01:37:02 should I rename the status file? Jan 20 01:37:10 hmagoo1, I would move it somewhere else yes Jan 20 01:37:12 egaudet: thx - we could wrap that as a repair utility Jan 20 01:37:19 rwhitby: I am sure i can get it work on FreeBSD, I am documenting it.. Jan 20 01:37:48 emergency package decorruption Jan 20 01:37:50 LoneStar99: if you are asking what "patch" is, then (no offence) you will just be wasting our time Jan 20 01:38:21 egaudet: emergency status file fixer-upper? :> Jan 20 01:38:36 ESFFU? Jan 20 01:38:48 ESFFU too! Jan 20 01:38:53 oh wait what Jan 20 01:38:53 rwhitby: honestly it may seem i do not know jack, but I am pretty good at this, just do not do much Unix, Linux Dev... Jan 20 01:38:54 :P Jan 20 01:38:56 EIP (emergency ipkg plunger) Jan 20 01:39:49 LoneStar99: I'm sure you're a very smart guy, but you need to realise you're on your own for porting it to BSD Jan 20 01:40:43 LoneStar99: just install the right tool for the job. Your goal is to develop on the phone, not to port meta-doctor to BSD. Jan 20 01:41:11 hrm, think I will lose some apps I've been holding on to which are no longer "available" Jan 20 01:41:38 hmagoo1: the apps are all still intact, Preware just doesn't know about them/ Jan 20 01:41:45 hmagoo1: don't do anything drastic Jan 20 01:41:52 rwhitby: you are correct.. i have freebsd installed, but oh well, do I only need disk one of Ubuntu? Jan 20 01:42:06 LoneStar99: Ubuntu 9.10 server install Jan 20 01:42:31 rwhitby: so if I try to reinstall one of these with preware what will happen? Jan 20 01:43:07 hmagoo1: a reinstall will reinstall that package, and not affect any others. Jan 20 01:43:39 rwhitby: but will that work with patches? Jan 20 01:45:12 no, hrm.. Jan 20 01:47:27 hmagoo1: the same status file fix for app will work for patches Jan 20 01:47:46 you just can't reinstall patch via preware with existing APT tech Jan 20 01:48:08 I can wait is that your advice Jan 20 01:51:12 for non-app cat apps you can run a quick command line fix to reinstall all ipkg data Jan 20 01:52:37 I'm up for that Jan 20 01:53:54 for i in `ls /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications`; do ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps install `basename $i`; done Jan 20 01:53:59 mv the status file somewhere else first Jan 20 01:56:22 i need a Linux book, that's hot Jan 20 01:56:33 ryan_gahl: shell scripting ftw Jan 20 01:57:05 hehehe... Jan 20 01:57:12 yeah, almost got the official Ubuntu book last night to start that learning arc - bot opted for the OpenGL ES 2.0 book instead Jan 20 01:57:28 s/bot/but Jan 20 01:57:29 zsoc: wanna see something really fucked up with shell scripting? :) Jan 20 01:58:05 do not fork bomb them Jan 20 01:58:12 it's something even worse Jan 20 01:58:22 an implementation of CouchDb.... in bash... Jan 20 01:58:34 lol Jan 20 01:58:39 ivanst: i've seen some pretty amazing stuff Jan 20 01:58:39 http://www.ordecon.com/2009/04/22/is-git-more-than-just-a-version-control-system/ Jan 20 01:58:44 look at it and weep :D Jan 20 01:59:03 hrm Cannot find package ca.canucksoftware.ledtorch. Jan 20 01:59:04 Check the spelling or perhaps run 'ipkg update' Jan 20 01:59:04 An error ocurred, return value: 4. Jan 20 01:59:23 136 patches installed in webos 1.3.1, OTA to 1.3.5.1, re install preware, run EMH, open preware.... tap update all.... Jan 20 01:59:30 ...to be continued Jan 20 02:00:08 egaudet: oh god please please please :D Jan 20 02:00:37 for about every app Jan 20 02:00:53 you know, i'm gonna kinda miss the ritual of re-browsing the patches to see which ones i want _this_ time Jan 20 02:01:21 but... not really Jan 20 02:02:08 hmagoo1, ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps update Jan 20 02:02:43 should I ctrl-c this and move the status file again? Jan 20 02:02:57 update all patches takes.... long Jan 20 02:03:14 lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng Jan 20 02:03:28 egaudet: like... tacgnol long? Jan 20 02:03:39 lonnnnnnnnnnnnnger Jan 20 02:03:45 wow Jan 20 02:03:48 that's long Jan 20 02:03:56 you may need to set your phone down for the day Jan 20 02:05:14 hmm.. why would -pg segv on arm... Jan 20 02:06:47 long is 30 seconds per patch Jan 20 02:07:05 rwhitby: ah, that's unfortunate re: no locking Jan 20 02:07:15 (or possibly none) Jan 20 02:15:08 136 patches * :30 :eek: How long does an OTA take? Updating all patches is going to take longer! Jan 20 02:15:13 30 seconds per patch? Jan 20 02:15:17 that's an hour Jan 20 02:15:23 yea riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii diculousssssssss Jan 20 02:15:35 I'm not testing aupt anymore Jan 20 02:15:48 It's actually not bad Jan 20 02:15:50 why does it take so long per patch ? Jan 20 02:15:52 egaudet: if it works, push it ;) Jan 20 02:16:07 and since some patches might error, i have to keep checking Jan 20 02:16:10 bpadalino: I suppose it has to remove the old one and re-add the new one? Jan 20 02:16:24 bpadalino, it's a remove install of a signed package from preware Jan 20 02:16:56 destinal1: ok so which snes emu did you find most successful and have you gotten anywhere with sound yet? Jan 20 02:16:56 oh .. that sounds like a lot of stuff to do Jan 20 02:20:27 pocketsnes might be a good start, tho the snes9x version it is based on is quite outdated Jan 20 02:21:26 looks like the same error even after ipkg update Jan 20 02:21:34 Sonic-NKT: he mentioned he had one fully working (minus it using OSS for audio) Jan 20 02:22:19 zsoc: with sound and transparency ;) *is dreaming* Jan 20 02:22:35 Sonic-NKT: define transparency? Jan 20 02:22:55 egaudet: did we get any where with libsdl_ttf? Jan 20 02:23:24 zsoc: t Jan 20 02:23:46 egaudet: control has everything that status needs except size and installed-size, which preware doesn't need to update or remove a package Jan 20 02:24:14 zsoc: im no expert at this but a special transparency feature of the snes is slowing most emulators (for slower hardware) down Jan 20 02:25:03 zsoc: this can be deactivated and gives a huge speedbost but as you may assume will deactivate transparency in some games and causes some graphical glitches Jan 20 02:25:50 hmagoo1: make sure you have all the feeds enabled Jan 20 02:27:17 zsoc, i pushed it Jan 20 02:28:21 rwhitby, should a fixer-upper calculate size/installed-size? Jan 20 02:29:59 rwhitby, oil, ipkg log might want to scroll to the end automatically? Jan 20 02:30:35 egaudet: :) Jan 20 02:30:48 Sonic-NKT: so... alpha-blending? :) Jan 20 02:30:57 not sure who asked but yeah latest snes9x Jan 20 02:31:00 egaudet: we can skip it for the moment I think Jan 20 02:32:30 not sure how to port oss to sdlmixeer Jan 20 02:32:52 a straight port of the latest source? Jan 20 02:32:56 Anything special happen on palmcast? Jan 20 02:33:07 how is performance? Jan 20 02:33:25 sonic: just built and ran Jan 20 02:33:38 feels fullspeed Jan 20 02:33:59 wow :) Jan 20 02:34:01 haven't played with it much Jan 20 02:34:37 may take a look at pocketsnes Jan 20 02:34:49 rwhitby: gave up on freebsd meta-doctor, don't have time for errors, downloading Ubuntu 9.10 server Jan 20 02:34:55 try drnoksnes Jan 20 02:35:07 LoneStar99: good plan Jan 20 02:35:22 JMyaDaGod: I skipped palmcast today Jan 20 02:35:34 anyone else listen to it? Jan 20 02:37:02 destinal-wirc1: oh that seems to be the best option, a "compilation" of the best arm snes emus :) Jan 20 02:38:17 yeah it will need dehildonized Jan 20 02:38:47 probably just launcher mostly Jan 20 02:38:51 lol, dehildonized sounds so odd after years of hearing that things need to be hildonized Jan 20 02:39:50 :) Jan 20 02:39:56 just googled it and now im not that confused anymore :) Jan 20 02:41:51 its like my life is going backwards =x Jan 20 02:42:24 so what are we calling it for webOS, WOSified? Jan 20 02:42:46 it's just sdl Jan 20 02:43:17 until we get pdl and service bus anyway Jan 20 02:43:30 Never shall I run out of battery again! Bought my mobile charger :) Jan 20 02:43:56 I'm waiting for pdl and bus to see if i'll be able to make my notification app with official toolkits Jan 20 02:45:17 notification? Jan 20 02:47:38 wow wifi kills battery Jan 20 02:49:57 Does it? Jan 20 02:50:31 We need a formal study on that Jan 20 02:50:36 Evdo vs Wifi Jan 20 02:50:52 Makes it hard since EVDO varies on signal strength Jan 20 02:53:05 well I had evdo on and wifi radio on but not associated Jan 20 02:53:20 worst of both Jan 20 02:54:19 I suspect it sends beacons/probes a lot Jan 20 02:57:40 rwhitby, is EPR in testing feed latest? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jan 20 02:59:57 2010