**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 21 02:59:56 2010 Jan 21 03:01:55 dbsooner: ping Jan 21 03:02:01 cool Jan 21 03:02:03 what do you want to name it? Jan 21 03:02:18 if I get "app catalog" unavailable is that normal? Jan 21 03:02:36 which one are we talking about? Jan 21 03:02:54 yay it does work now, you are awesome Kyusaku :p Jan 21 03:03:10 wait Jan 21 03:03:11 no Jan 21 03:03:13 haha someone would have figured it out evewntually Jan 21 03:03:13 wrong wifi >.> Jan 21 03:03:16 lol Jan 21 03:03:19 wth Jan 21 03:03:51 I'm about to reboot the pre and test it again to make sure it works Jan 21 03:03:57 sslow: the evdo to 4g Jan 21 03:04:08 yeah it doesnt work Kyusaku Jan 21 03:04:16 as a matter of fact my phone shows no data now Jan 21 03:04:17 >.> Jan 21 03:04:25 lol wth Jan 21 03:04:42 dbsooner: not sure any ideas? Jan 21 03:05:03 yeah I think you just broke my data, Kyusaku Jan 21 03:05:19 wth Jan 21 03:05:26 that's unpossible Jan 21 03:05:38 dbsooner:I didnt want to submit it but had a lot of guys pushing for it Jan 21 03:05:43 sslow: Replace EVDO with 4G Icon? Jan 21 03:05:47 Palm did, it's their package Jan 21 03:06:00 there, it came back when I cycled the phone services completely >.> Jan 21 03:06:03 now lets see what it does >.> Jan 21 03:06:06 dbsooner: works for me...Thanks Jan 21 03:06:07 rebooting Pre Jan 21 03:06:13 no problem Jan 21 03:06:32 Kyusaku: how do you reboot the Pre? Jan 21 03:06:40 grr.. why won't this work: find . -type d -exec 'chmod 775 {}' Jan 21 03:06:50 "missing argument for exec" Jan 21 03:06:54 LoneStar99: Orange+Sym+R Jan 21 03:07:13 Ok thanks will write it down Jan 21 03:07:27 finally got this thing working! Jan 21 03:07:36 app catalog works? Jan 21 03:07:39 data seems to be cycling for some reason Jan 21 03:07:48 nope, it says down Jan 21 03:07:49 Vincent: reboot? Jan 21 03:07:58 this is post-reboot Jan 21 03:08:20 but I shall reboot again >.> Jan 21 03:09:36 dbSooner do you have the trailing \; Jan 21 03:09:41 nope Jan 21 03:09:42 fixed it Jan 21 03:10:00 and i shouldn't enclose the entire thing in quotes, just the {} Jan 21 03:10:01 :) Jan 21 03:10:02 hmmm not working after reboot, Jan 21 03:10:03 thanks bhern Jan 21 03:10:10 You still workin? Jan 21 03:10:15 lemme see if I did anything Jan 21 03:10:17 i'm always working Jan 21 03:10:28 I hear you there. Jan 21 03:10:38 Adora was workin too.. she said she was hiding under a table? Jan 21 03:11:18 yeah Kyusaku, as soon as it connects, data dies Jan 21 03:11:49 HA. so I have a file called "-r" ... how do i rm it? :D Jan 21 03:12:07 put quotes around it Jan 21 03:12:11 o Jan 21 03:12:31 nope Jan 21 03:12:44 the data icon should disappear if you're "tethered" Jan 21 03:12:55 ok I know what's up Jan 21 03:13:08 it doesn't fully work OTB Jan 21 03:13:14 ? Jan 21 03:13:22 I rebooted Jan 21 03:13:26 otb? Jan 21 03:13:27 and it wasn't working Jan 21 03:13:31 zsoc: rm - "-r" Jan 21 03:13:34 otb=out of the box Jan 21 03:13:43 dtzWill: what's that extra - doing hanging out there? :) Jan 21 03:14:00 I had to turn on IP Forwarding in FreeTether Jan 21 03:14:05 and that does something Jan 21 03:14:06 zsoc: or rm ./-r Jan 21 03:14:12 to get the mobile hotspot stuff working Jan 21 03:14:14 zsoc: see 'man rm' :) Jan 21 03:14:20 oh that's too obvious Jan 21 03:14:24 ah Jan 21 03:14:25 or at least to pass the data Jan 21 03:14:27 i always stop thinking when i panic Jan 21 03:14:34 then I shall get freetether and test :p Jan 21 03:15:08 is freetether in preware? Jan 21 03:15:12 yeah when you get it just open it for a sec, turn on Ip Forwarding, close it then open Mobile Hotspot Jan 21 03:15:13 I don't recall seeing it Jan 21 03:15:21 it's on the testing feeds Jan 21 03:15:25 ah ok Jan 21 03:15:33 do you need a link Jan 21 03:15:44 nah I got the testing feed Jan 21 03:15:46 just had to turn it on Jan 21 03:15:46 ok Jan 21 03:16:06 how does one get the testing feed? Jan 21 03:16:12 Kyusaku, that's what I thought Jan 21 03:16:18 I don't know if it's just me but whenever I try to install an app from preware, it pulls up the App Cat to install but I get an error saying it's not a webOS app. Jan 21 03:16:19 how do u force pre to go into usb mode on startup? Jan 21 03:16:20 think I mentioned the ip_forward thing above Jan 21 03:16:25 need that and some iptables stuff Jan 21 03:16:53 how does one get the testing feed in preware? Jan 21 03:17:15 bit.ly/testing-feed Jan 21 03:17:23 it asks you if you do the bootstrap method, I know that :p Jan 21 03:18:39 hey! yay! it works! Jan 21 03:18:40 wooo Jan 21 03:18:46 so you add a conf file basically? Jan 21 03:18:55 hmm connection a little slow but then again the pre is like half a foot from a brickwall in a basement Jan 21 03:19:06 errl Jan 21 03:19:11 cement wall Jan 21 03:20:05 VincentLaw: awesome Jan 21 03:20:09 glad I could help Jan 21 03:20:19 now to give my poor phone a rest Jan 21 03:20:23 it's had a rough day Jan 21 03:21:02 spotter: I guess Jan 21 03:21:14 been ssh'ed to death, blasted with half-working ipkgs, redoctored, ssh fixed, repatched, and blasted again with slightly better working ipkgs :D Jan 21 03:21:19 anyone having problems accessing app catalog? Jan 21 03:21:48 have you tried accessing specific apps in the catalog Jan 21 03:22:12 LoneStar99: no problem here Jan 21 03:23:00 spotter_: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Testing_Feeds Jan 21 03:23:03 you know the other day I was testing something for someone on the forum and noticed that the Sprint TV app can't be accessed over Wifi Jan 21 03:23:09 first time using the pre, used meta-doctor Jan 21 03:24:26 LoneStar99 can you load this via the Pre http://developer.palm.com/appredirect/?packageid=com.palm.app.mobilehotspotupdatepre&applicationid=1278 Jan 21 03:25:22 they haven't killed that yet? Jan 21 03:26:03 and now I've updated my rss feeds so have no more reference to update Jan 21 03:26:13 guess its good I got the url already :) Jan 21 03:26:52 I still have a reference, thank you google reader Jan 21 03:26:56 christpunk01 you still here? Jan 21 03:26:57 Kyusaku, probably ip based access Jan 21 03:26:59 =) Jan 21 03:27:07 if it would work, then anyone could use it anytime Jan 21 03:27:20 spotter_: yeah I figured Jan 21 03:27:30 this was an issue w/ mobitv in the past Jan 21 03:27:34 there was no protection Jan 21 03:27:46 Rick-home: yes. Jan 21 03:28:29 can you be somewhat more specific christpunk01 ? What app are you trying to load?, what version of preware do you have, what version of the package manager service do you have? Jan 21 03:28:45 and what version of webos are you running and wht carrier??? Jan 21 03:28:55 Rick-home: yeah it's still in the catalog Jan 21 03:29:26 Kyusaku I really thought the oompa-loompas would have re-jiggered that by now. :-) Jan 21 03:29:43 can i setup a new palm profile? on the pre? Jan 21 03:29:48 Rick-home: not sure they _can_ fix it without just pulling it out of catalog or giving it a new Id then distribute it Jan 21 03:30:14 Rick-home: I guess they don't have Verizon exclusive side of the app catalog implemented yet Jan 21 03:30:14 anyone they sent old link to would need new Jan 21 03:31:14 LoneStar99: yeah just use the FIrstUse app Jan 21 03:31:16 destinal-wirc no one should HAVE the old link except Verizon testers who know that they're testing. Jan 21 03:31:40 that app shuld have had an ip range filter on it. Jan 21 03:32:21 hola from tethering w/ mobile hotspot and freether Jan 21 03:32:25 Rick-home: haha I think that's too hard to do at this point Jan 21 03:32:26 not that that would have stopped us more than, what, 3 or 4 hours after Verizon started passing out Pre's. Jan 21 03:32:36 haha nice spotter Jan 21 03:32:42 good to see you got it working too Jan 21 03:32:47 its just that mobile hotspot doesn't set up the ip forwarding I believe Jan 21 03:32:53 yeah Jan 21 03:32:53 rick-home: I have webOS 1.3.5.1 on Sprint. preware 0.9.18 and package mngr 0.9.34. trying to install basically anything not in Plam's Cat. network tools for instance Jan 21 03:32:58 easy to work around Jan 21 03:33:00 that's the only thing Jan 21 03:33:02 yep Jan 21 03:33:05 and nice app as it supports multiple clients Jan 21 03:33:06 rick-home: I doubt ip range filtering is designed into the service Jan 21 03:33:20 nontrivial to add after fact Jan 21 03:33:32 anyways, back to ethernet I go Jan 21 03:33:32 Kyusaku cs101 -- many of the app catalog programmers were clearly riding the short bus... there just WAS NOT sufficient thought that went into the app cat. Jan 21 03:33:57 hehe Jan 21 03:34:29 and at that point, I have to bite my tounge. further sayeth not. Jan 21 03:35:19 Rick-home: when they launched EU apps hidden from US I just kept punching in share links to see what they had eventually I think they blocked US users from viewing them Jan 21 03:35:49 yeah they block by country Jan 21 03:35:55 all your fault Jan 21 03:36:02 all you need is appid number, doesn't matter the name Jan 21 03:36:06 hahaha Jan 21 03:37:05 so when are we getting our front page story on precentral? Jan 21 03:37:20 Kyusaku and by golly THAT was brillient too wasn't it. That all you need is the app id... so that the catalog is discoverable by incrementing.... Jan 21 03:37:59 Rick-home: extremely, especially when there were only several hundred apps Jan 21 03:38:34 but Kyusaku it's not that hard to write a javascript app to do the incrementing and to log the results into a folder in /media/internal using the download service. Jan 21 03:38:51 basically, you can auto-download everything Jan 21 03:38:56 true, simple bot Jan 21 03:39:32 wait? you can download any app? Jan 21 03:39:34 and I -think- that with sufficent thinking, I can spoof the header browserid and do that from a desktop that is connected THROUGH the pre.... Jan 21 03:39:41 what about ones that cost ? Jan 21 03:39:55 no spotter_ they plugged that hold about 4 months ago when one of the webos-internals team found it for them. Jan 21 03:40:07 we're not really discussing that Jan 21 03:40:12 no Jan 21 03:40:13 that was the hole where you could install an app w/ the same name Jan 21 03:40:14 right? Jan 21 03:40:24 we're REALLY not discussing that. Jan 21 03:40:29 ok Jan 21 03:40:36 that hole is fixed as far as I can tell Jan 21 03:40:43 hehe, so you guys are all doing free security research? :P Jan 21 03:40:48 we're talking about cataloging the whole catalog even the country exclusive apps Jan 21 03:40:49 still have old apps from homebrew that made the jump Jan 21 03:40:52 if you want to discuss security issues, there are places where the security weinies hang out. Jan 21 03:40:53 and they ant to update and cant Jan 21 03:40:54 can I change the profile on my Pre??? Jan 21 03:41:41 spotter_ REALLY not discussing that. Jan 21 03:42:03 ok Jan 21 03:42:22 LoneStar99: use a patch in preware called show first use app and run it Jan 21 03:42:37 then launch first use app Jan 21 03:43:04 diov6: installed meta-doctor and it was suppose to appear... Jan 21 03:43:22 is there a command to make it appear? Jan 21 03:43:55 LoneStar99 if you edited the meta make and re-doctored and didn't see it, just run the patch in preware Show first use app Jan 21 03:44:12 lol is what im saying Jan 21 03:45:14 damn... this is the never ending pre setup.... Jan 21 03:45:38 Why is webos GDB broken? Jan 21 03:45:46 or Jan 21 03:46:16 he could just edit the appinfo.json Jan 21 03:46:19 been at this for about 24hours + Jan 21 03:46:20 for first use Jan 21 03:47:40 Rick-home: where can I find the direct link to download and install preware Jan 21 03:48:31 just go to /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.firstuse/appinfo.json Jan 21 03:48:41 and change visible to true Jan 21 03:48:50 you can edit it in vi Jan 21 03:49:09 or whatever Jan 21 03:49:49 no need to load and install preware for a simple patch that changes 1 line Jan 21 03:52:28 there is no command like "webos20090606" for dev mode? Jan 21 03:52:37 sorry first use Jan 21 03:53:16 not that I know of Jan 21 03:53:29 rwhitby: Retweet if you get to it. :) Jan 21 03:53:29 no there is not Jan 21 03:53:38 "WebOS Quick Install" how the heck do I do that? Jan 21 03:54:14 if you can meta-doctor you should have the tools to just novaterm into the pre Jan 21 03:54:24 and edit that line Jan 21 03:55:32 just have developer mode on, run novaterm, cd into that dir, make file system writeable, vi the appinfo.json and change visible to true Jan 21 03:57:44 sounds good, but i am on my last wind, with this... have had to, download 2 differernt Ubuntus, file sharing did not work, installed 3 different meta-doctors,etc... Jan 21 04:03:15 LoneStar99 sorry that this is so hard. Jan 21 04:03:33 LoneStar99 do you have terminal access to your pre? Do you have terminal on it, or novaterm. Jan 21 04:03:42 ??? Jan 21 04:03:50 did you install the sdk somewhere? Jan 21 04:04:07 because we can do this in about 90 seconds. Jan 21 04:05:37 yeah have the Jan 21 04:05:43 sdk on windows 7 Jan 21 04:06:03 no terminal on pre... Jan 21 04:07:26 he should have novaterm if he doctored Jan 21 04:07:57 LoneStar99 windows 7 32 bit or 64 bit? Jan 21 04:08:02 h64bit Jan 21 04:08:06 64bit Jan 21 04:08:38 LoneStar99 download http://vocshop.com/stuff/novaterm64.zip Jan 21 04:08:41 which is VERY SMALL Jan 21 04:08:43 how do I know if novaterm is on the pred? Jan 21 04:09:13 the pre communicates with your desktop via the novacom protocal. Novaterm is a terminal program that runs on the desktop that talks to the pre. Jan 21 04:09:27 unzip that zip into /program files/palm/sdk/bin Jan 21 04:09:30 and run the novaterm.exe Jan 21 04:09:37 press connect Jan 21 04:09:52 a black window will open up with green letters which say root@webos-device Jan 21 04:10:04 at that point you are running a terminal logged into the pre as root. Jan 21 04:10:37 tell me when you get that far. Jan 21 04:10:59 is there a way to start a service via command line Jan 21 04:11:30 do i connect my pre via usb before pressing "novaterm.exe"? Jan 21 04:11:43 yes please Jan 21 04:12:44 ok connected Jan 21 04:12:54 LoneStar99 cd /tmp Jan 21 04:13:09 LoneStar99 wget http://bit.ly/preware-bootstrap Jan 21 04:13:10 because the pubsubservice is not running on my Emulator Jan 21 04:13:27 LoneStar99 sh preware-bootstrap Jan 21 04:13:37 LoneStar99 that will install preware on your pre. Jan 21 04:13:42 3 lines. Jan 21 04:13:53 PLUS you now know how to log in as root!!! Jan 21 04:14:23 edektor is that continuing an earlier discussion??? Jan 21 04:14:37 yeah Jan 21 04:14:50 edektor you can certainly start it by simply running it. Jan 21 04:15:00 how? Jan 21 04:15:00 from terminal or novaterm Jan 21 04:15:05 either Jan 21 04:15:11 find the executable, type the command Jan 21 04:15:47 * Rick-home finds it ironic that he is giving instructions on running linux services... Jan 21 04:16:22 "would you like to include any alpha Preware..."? Jan 21 04:17:13 where are the service exec's located Jan 21 04:17:15 LoneStar99, Y if you want to install the alpha testing versions of preware/ipkgservice, no if you want the released public versions Jan 21 04:17:17 LoneStar99 you will have to decide... do you want to see the preware alpha testing feed? Jan 21 04:17:30 edektor they can be anywhere. Jan 21 04:17:46 where are the palm ones.. Jan 21 04:17:54 or specifically the pubsubservice Jan 21 04:18:07 it says"Setup Complete" Jan 21 04:18:22 LoneStar99 you should now have preware in your launcher. Jan 21 04:18:40 edektor use find Jan 21 04:18:56 Thats what I did Jan 21 04:19:12 ok see preware Jan 21 04:19:27 Rick-home: what in the world are you doing? Jan 21 04:19:38 sup webos people Jan 21 04:19:57 loading "package infromation" Jan 21 04:21:58 here is the error from ./pubsubservice http://pastie.org/787704 Jan 21 04:22:12 Rick-home: thank for helping with this... has been the rigging from hell Jan 21 04:24:00 Rick-Home: I lost connection for a while. I was hoping you can still help me. the problem is I can't load programs (network tools for instance) from PreWare that aren't on Palm App Cat. App Cat says "This is not a valid webOS application". I am running webOS 1.3.5.1 on Sprint. PreWare 0.9.18 and Pack MNGR 0.9.34. Jan 21 04:26:56 alright.... moment of truth Jan 21 04:28:10 egaudet: i do not envy you Jan 21 04:28:36 I installed the "Mobile Hotspot". I'm on Sprint though and I keep getting "Sharing an Internet connection requires an addition to your mobile service plan." Do I really need to contact Sprint or is there a work around? Jan 21 04:30:10 find / -name \*.orig.... PASSED Jan 21 04:31:25 cat /usr/lib/ipkg/info/*.md5sums > /tmp/md5sums && md5sum -c /tmp/md5sums |grep -v OK ...... FAILLLLLLLLL suck an egg! Jan 21 04:34:22 7 failed checksums Jan 21 04:35:16 135 patches, an OTA, a migration, a botched weird ipkg data update, a hackaround fix to get 1.3.1 ipkg data back, an update all, a reboot, an EPR 2.0 and 7 files left straggling... close but no cigar! Jan 21 04:35:41 messing with pre-ware how do i go back to the prevoius scene? Jan 21 04:36:12 back gesture just like every other app Jan 21 04:38:00 christpunk01 regarding the mobile hot spot -- expect patched binaries eventually. But basically, if you installed the one using the palm share link, then you have a version that is Verizon only. Jan 21 04:38:58 psykoz: back gesture - "draging fingers to the left of screen"? Jan 21 04:38:58 Rick-Home: thanks. so there is no Sprint version then? oh well, it was a nice thought then. Jan 21 04:39:01 christpunk01 regarding installing non app cat preware apps, Do me a favor, let's try something very simple. Please try to install chess -- the rboatright version, not the app catalog one. Jan 21 04:39:20 on it Jan 21 04:39:36 it's in the precentral feed. Jan 21 04:40:30 Gotta wait for it to load. Takes a while, for me at least. Jan 21 04:42:29 :( lsdiff fail Jan 21 04:43:00 Rick-home: where in preware can i find the first use app? Jan 21 04:43:11 ok. that installed. but it didn't do like the other ones. this one just installed straight through preware. other ones are trying to open up App Cat and install it from there. so could it be not on my end but the dev? Jan 21 04:43:25 dBsooner, PING Jan 21 04:43:43 lonestar99: patches -> app launcher Jan 21 04:46:44 lonestar99: first use app comes on your pre Jan 21 04:46:51 it's just hidden Jan 21 04:47:40 destinal-wirc: how do I launch it, the preware "first use app" failed with an exception error Jan 21 04:48:04 eh Jan 21 04:48:26 there is no preware first use app Jan 21 04:48:38 first use is a palm app Jan 21 04:48:57 destinal-wirc: he's talking bout the patch that shows it Jan 21 04:49:06 now there may be a preware patch to unhide it Jan 21 04:49:14 yeah, the patch failed... Jan 21 04:49:39 huh... odd. I just installed it. said installed fine but I can't find the app Jan 21 04:49:40 you can edit the appinfo.json Jan 21 04:50:10 christpunk01: you probably need to rescan or reboot Jan 21 04:50:15 christpunk01 name something you're trying to install. Jan 21 04:50:28 besides chess. Jan 21 04:50:32 dest: good call Jan 21 04:50:43 weird, got a an exception error, but i just launced the first use screen Jan 21 04:50:54 yippee LoneStar99 Jan 21 04:50:56 christpunk01: where did you find mobile hot spot Jan 21 04:51:21 edektor read the logs for this channel. The link is in the back log Jan 21 04:51:29 will do Jan 21 04:51:32 i found it on here. someone posted a link. i'm sorry, don't have it anymore. was on my pre and it's restarted bout 4 times since Jan 21 04:51:59 is your pre running gentoo or something? Jan 21 04:52:10 Rick-Home: network tool by reliablesite.net llc Jan 21 04:52:22 LoneStar99: try to edit appinfo.json in /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.firstuse Jan 21 04:52:41 change "hidden" to false Jan 21 04:53:05 then reboot or rescan if you know how Jan 21 04:53:40 christpunk01 that is an app catalog app Jan 21 04:53:58 oh nice "Profile Creation Failed" We were unable to create the profile... Jan 21 04:54:19 LoneStar99 because you're not on a cell phone network. Jan 21 04:54:19 odd... could that be why it's freaking out when i use preware instead? maybe that's just the problem. odd that i get that error though. Jan 21 04:54:47 christpunk01 if you attempt to install an app catalog app from preware, it launches the app catalog to attempt to install it. Jan 21 04:55:06 if you find that confusing, go to the application menu, and go to manage feeds, and TURN OFF the palm feeds. Jan 21 04:55:13 Rick-home: i just want to be able to access the app catalog, etc... Jan 21 04:55:27 hey not sure if anyone can help me, but does anyone know how to enable access over evdo on lighty web server? thanks Jan 21 04:55:32 LoneStar99 I understand. Jan 21 04:55:37 As it tried to do, but it says it's invalid. I'm through the actual App Cat and I don't see it. could it be a country barrier? Jan 21 04:55:51 christpunk01 where are you? Jan 21 04:55:56 USA Jan 21 04:56:13 Rick-home: so without a valid profile, I can not see the app store? Jan 21 04:56:19 r_e: don't use port 80, for one :) Jan 21 04:58:53 I read in the forum to edit etc/event.d/mobi.optware Jan 21 04:59:01 oh lord.. egaudet said "lsdiff fail" Jan 21 04:59:13 * dBsooner is no longer involved with AUPT or it's future. As it will NEVER be right. Jan 21 04:59:22 lol Jan 21 04:59:44 i have one task for you dBsooner patch submission portal sensai Jan 21 04:59:55 aye? Jan 21 05:01:19 is there another alternative to viewing the app catalog? Jan 21 05:01:36 viewing it? Sure!!! Use preware. Jan 21 05:01:49 downloading and installing? Not so much. Jan 21 05:02:21 also you can VIEW the app catalog at http://projectappetite.com/ or on precentral, or at webosschools.com Jan 21 05:02:32 LoneStar99 see pm Jan 21 05:02:44 egaudet: I'm waiting..... Jan 21 05:03:06 well here's the (hopefully final) hangup to AUPT Jan 21 05:03:23 lsdiff uses the original filename (the one with --- in patch header) Jan 21 05:03:47 yes? Jan 21 05:03:56 where befoer --- didn't matter Jan 21 05:04:01 we have at least one patch (and I beieve a couple others) that have a bogus original filename Jan 21 05:04:10 i.e. /tmp/month-assistant.js Jan 21 05:04:20 Rick-home: can someone with an active account make a palm profile then they first use the phone and change the profile back to the original? Jan 21 05:04:26 this means that lsdiff can't get the correct filename to backup Jan 21 05:04:28 yea, probably the ones created using jason's diff magic Jan 21 05:04:41 nope jason's diff creator generates correct headers Jan 21 05:04:52 only if the user specifies the proper headers Jan 21 05:04:59 these small number of patches are due to others manually using diff most likely Jan 21 05:05:06 OK. Jan 21 05:05:11 so what are you proposing? Jan 21 05:05:12 :D Jan 21 05:06:16 so I read in the forum that you edit etc/event.d/mobi.optware.lighttypd to get access on evdo, and there are instructions commented in that file, but the event.d folder is read-only. can anyone help me account for this? Jan 21 05:06:54 I can't modify the file Jan 21 05:08:12 remount readwrite Jan 21 05:08:22 the rootfs Jan 21 05:08:32 I'm talking with jason to see if there's any good reasons to NOT discard the comments in top of submitted .patch files. If we don't care about the comments, I propse your submission portal takes the patch, applies it to doctor, regenerates patch with correct headers (i.e. git diff ;) ) Jan 21 05:09:01 correct is good Jan 21 05:09:52 what is this other patch format not made by diff? Jan 21 05:10:00 egaudet: One SLIGHT problem with that. Jan 21 05:10:30 I disagree with whatever problem you have ahead of time! :P Jan 21 05:10:34 egaudet: Not ALL files are in the doctor. Jan 21 05:10:46 egaudet: Namingly the carrier specific files. Jan 21 05:10:59 destinal-wirc, there isn't anything that says what the original file and new file locations have to be Jan 21 05:11:00 Otherwise, cake. Jan 21 05:11:15 so you can do diff /tmp/blah /usr/palm/applications/blah and lsdiff with return /tmp/blah as being patched Jan 21 05:11:50 woot.. added a smidge to the portal. Jan 21 05:11:52 "Displaying 204 Patches" Jan 21 05:11:53 is there a way to add feeds to preware? I remember seeing an input area for it on older versions but not on the new Jan 21 05:12:35 christpunk01: /media/cryptofs/apps/etc/ipkg/ Jan 21 05:12:43 add your *.conf file there Jan 21 05:13:08 ok so dBsooner couple things here Jan 21 05:13:15 MK Jan 21 05:13:21 1) not gonna happen Jan 21 05:13:24 A) your problem is valid, let's discuss that in a moment Jan 21 05:13:26 ok cool. so gotta do it from the console then? guess i'll wait till I can use my computer rather than the phone Jan 21 05:13:29 2) definately not going to happen. Jan 21 05:13:43 B) make sure your machine has a current version of git that supports -b in git diff Jan 21 05:14:08 machine = my server? Jan 21 05:14:08 C) to generate patch it's: apply patch, git add ., git diff -b --cached > my.patch Jan 21 05:14:11 yea Jan 21 05:14:38 NOTE: that some earlier versions of git (like the default that comes with ubuntu) has a broken version of git diff -b Jan 21 05:14:46 [dbsooner@deluge ~]$ git --version Jan 21 05:14:46 git version 1.5.5.6 Jan 21 05:14:57 git version 1.6.4.4 Jan 21 05:15:01 pfft Jan 21 05:15:09 I went straight to source :P Jan 21 05:15:25 * dBsooner thinks of how to pull this off Jan 21 05:15:44 I so wish I understood what you guys were solving Jan 21 05:16:09 only two beers so I think it's more lack of context Jan 21 05:16:43 did jason do something? Jan 21 05:16:49 need to find an rpm for newest git version Jan 21 05:17:22 * Rick-home bed. Jan 21 05:17:24 night all Jan 21 05:17:36 night randy Jan 21 05:17:44 destinal-wirc, what'd I do now? lol Jan 21 05:17:45 :P Jan 21 05:18:15 JayCanuck: I wish I knew! Jan 21 05:18:17 :) Jan 21 05:18:21 lol Jan 21 05:18:37 something about weird patches? Jan 21 05:18:46 dunno Jan 21 05:19:00 lol, UnifiedDiffCreator is fine ;) Jan 21 05:19:24 oh, is this your not diff diff? Jan 21 05:20:24 psst, http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/9934/romcooker.jpg Jan 21 05:20:27 :p Jan 21 05:20:38 semi-secret project of mine Jan 21 05:20:46 wow Jan 21 05:21:37 whoa Jan 21 05:21:43 we're cooking Jan 21 05:22:06 c'mon, who couldn't fall head over heals in love with a penguin chef Jan 21 05:22:12 lol Jan 21 05:22:50 dBsooner, rpm? Jan 21 05:23:05 use the source and configure && make && make install :p Jan 21 05:23:09 egaudet: yeah, i'll just install from source.. by my server really doesn't like it Jan 21 05:23:20 tell your server who is boss Jan 21 05:23:26 lol Jan 21 05:24:19 is that the multi-platform meta doc ? :P Jan 21 05:24:22 JayCanuck: I was just asking for something like that the other day! Jan 21 05:24:35 yep egaudet Jan 21 05:24:44 looking nice :) Jan 21 05:24:54 btw.. it's 1.6.6.1 now Jan 21 05:25:05 though no code used from metadoctor; different means to the same result Jan 21 05:25:13 something to pre-apply patches... I set up alot of pre's for friends, being able to doctor them and be done would be great. (well, doctor them, and install preware and a theme) Jan 21 05:25:20 dBsooner, that's the latest stable release? Jan 21 05:25:37 shrug.. that's the latest in the scm/git dir Jan 21 05:25:41 http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/ Jan 21 05:26:08 destinal-wirc, btw we're solving the case where patch creator puts his original file in a different path like /tmp/ Jan 21 05:26:13 1.6.6 went through rc1, rc2, rc3 and rc4 then final Jan 21 05:26:17 JayCanuck: you going to have a beta program for that? Jan 21 05:27:03 and then lsdiff tries to backup non-existent file at that -wrong- file path Jan 21 05:27:10 cryptk|work, yea, eventually. Need to finish up WOSQI v3.0 and Internalz v1.0 Jan 21 05:28:31 JayCanuck: if you need anyone to beta any of that stuff, feel free to ask me. I am always testing bleeding edge stuff (both for pre and other projects... like mangler) Jan 21 05:28:38 JayCanuck -- what wonders do you expect in wosqi 3? Jan 21 05:28:42 that and I am good at making things break (good quality in a beta guy) Jan 21 05:29:19 wosqi should unofficially be pronounced like "whiskey" Jan 21 05:29:29 maybe "whoskey" Jan 21 05:29:33 http://git-scm.com/download Jan 21 05:29:52 AUPT-compatibility, new theming format, MANY bug fixes (both serious and minor), patch updating, and a built-in wosqi update checker Jan 21 05:30:08 also, JayCanuck I have been meaning to ask you... since wosqi and wosrepair both need the doctor file, why not just integrate the repair utility into wosqi (perhaps in the tools menu) Jan 21 05:30:16 dBsooner, yup latest stable is 1.6.6.1 Jan 21 05:30:26 cryptk|work :p Jan 21 05:30:27 k Jan 21 05:30:42 JayCanuck: are you open source yet? Jan 21 05:30:49 err is WOSQI? Jan 21 05:31:06 destinal-wirc, nope, probably will never be Jan 21 05:31:07 I mean, it makes sense, pretty much everyone that does homebrew has 3 things... wosqi, wosrepair and preware Jan 21 05:32:02 JayCanuck: you enjoy proprietarily enslaving those bits I see... :) Jan 21 05:32:13 hey hey Jan 21 05:32:34 WebOS Theme Builder, Unified Diff Creator, jpkg-webos, SysToolsMgr Service, webOSDoctor URL Generator, and all my patches are open source Jan 21 05:32:56 seriously, it's ok, license is up to author Jan 21 05:33:02 should I uninstall the old RPM first? Jan 21 05:33:25 haha, careful... I hear they have wolverines in Canada... those things are vicious... you don't wanan find one in your house destinal-wirc, LOL Jan 21 05:33:27 just giving you a hard time Jan 21 05:33:49 brb, mandatory break time Jan 21 05:34:12 dBsooner, yeah Jan 21 05:34:45 destinal-wirc, let's put it this way, you aren't the first to criticize me for me license choices without looking at how much opensource stuff I've done, heh Jan 21 05:35:27 JayCanuck, so WOSQI is closed source eh... l Jan 21 05:35:39 hehe Jan 21 05:35:40 * egaudet runs Jan 21 05:35:44 lol Jan 21 05:36:40 well, I think wosqi is probably most popular. If you've got some kind of reason, whatever it is, to restrict user freedom on that, it's cool Jan 21 05:36:52 lol Jan 21 05:36:56 still going to joke about it Jan 21 05:37:42 :) Jan 21 05:37:44 changing topic, my ArchiveMgr service is working :D Jan 21 05:37:53 wazzat Jan 21 05:38:07 multithreaded unrar, unzip, untar, unjar service :) Jan 21 05:38:13 ohisee Jan 21 05:38:27 ughft Jan 21 05:38:28 now I just gotta build a gui, lol Jan 21 05:38:38 but .. why? Jan 21 05:38:54 most useful thing ever though was the flashlight in system menu patch + service :p Jan 21 05:38:59 lol, a standalong archive extraction app, as well as future Internalz integration Jan 21 05:39:03 I keep saying this, services should be specific not generic Jan 21 05:39:27 [dbeames@deluge git-1.6.6.1]$ /usr/bin/git --version Jan 21 05:39:27 git version 1.6.6.1 Jan 21 05:39:28 the service is pretty specific, archive stuff only :p Jan 21 05:39:32 you people totally distort pams brilliant model Jan 21 05:39:35 :P Jan 21 05:39:37 lol Jan 21 05:39:43 palms Jan 21 05:40:00 oh Pam, she quite the thinker :p Jan 21 05:40:07 For the love of God Jan 21 05:40:07 I have this service called luna. it's really good, does all sorts of stuff! it's not generic! :p Jan 21 05:40:15 you really can't set a default contact number on this phone, can you. Jan 21 05:40:17 OK.. egaudet.. Git is up to date. But we still have the problem of the doctor not containing all the files. Jan 21 05:40:26 calendar-all-day-events-month-view Jan 21 05:40:26 email-actual-words-instead-of-icons.patch Jan 21 05:40:26 messaging-character-counter Jan 21 05:40:29 I just don't get the popularity of flashlight Jan 21 05:40:32 FuMan: what do you mean by default contact number? Jan 21 05:40:36 but maybe it's just me Jan 21 05:40:47 luna isn't a service,vl Jan 21 05:40:53 jacques: i live and die by flashlight, and having it in the menu is deluxe Jan 21 05:40:55 it's a super-bright LED flashlight that's always there, jacques. Jan 21 05:41:06 destinal-wirc: nitpick >.> Jan 21 05:41:23 it can save your life if you're trapped under earthquake debris Jan 21 05:41:27 VincentLaw: like when i type Vtsai in Universal search, I want his MOBILE NUMBER to be the one that is called when I hit return. Jan 21 05:41:31 pfft, FuMan, try LED Torch :p Jan 21 05:41:31 and instead, its his work Jan 21 05:41:39 see iphone guy I posted about earlier Jan 21 05:41:44 my brother, its his home number Jan 21 05:41:51 for everyone, its totally random, and i can't figure it out Jan 21 05:42:00 but its requiring me to click the screen to make a call, and that bothers me Jan 21 05:42:18 JayCanuck: i have that installed as well...but that device menu megamix with the flashlight on it is super duper handy. Jan 21 05:42:20 Did you know there are over 200 patches for 1.3.5? Jan 21 05:42:42 JayCanuck: specific, return an email from my mailbox. generic, load random file Jan 21 05:42:53 FuMan, yea, that's my work as well. I have the Device Menu Remix with Flashlight myself :) Jan 21 05:42:57 the former is what services are about Jan 21 05:42:57 dBsooner, so those 3 I listed above are the only bad header ones I could find (from 1.3.1 branch) Jan 21 05:43:03 FuMan: it appears in the order you entered it in the contact Jan 21 05:43:10 they are the culprits that ruined my EPR :P Jan 21 05:43:14 my D it does. Jan 21 05:43:22 i can wipe the contact Jan 21 05:43:27 retype it 595948058435 ways Jan 21 05:43:36 and i can't for the LIFE of me, make it consistent as to what it picks Jan 21 05:43:36 i'll fix them manually. :) Jan 21 05:43:54 dBsooner, regarding carrier packages: the 2 solutions are 1) fail automation, require manual "verification" of header or 2) extract the carrier ipk's from the various doctors and use them for regen Jan 21 05:43:56 browsing filesystems and opening archives are not services Jan 21 05:44:00 I'm pretty sure migrating all of my contacts to google made it much worse, but Palm burned me, and I'm done playing that game. Jan 21 05:44:08 destinal-wirc lol, extracting files from archives of specific types is specifoc enough for me :p Jan 21 05:44:15 egaudet: I like option 2, but dang that's tedious. Jan 21 05:44:28 Maybe JayCanuck has a java solution for us in that regards.... Jan 21 05:44:30 it gives too much to mojo Jan 21 05:44:55 VincentLaw: are you saying the first number i ever type under a contact, should always be their primary? Jan 21 05:44:56 JayCanuck, you got my mail? Jan 21 05:44:56 for what dBsooner? Jan 21 05:44:59 mojo apps should ask for specific info from a black box, it messes with system stuff Jan 21 05:45:03 yep spottr :) Jan 21 05:45:20 JayCanuck: building a FULL doctor userspace. Jan 21 05:45:28 JayCanuck: you're ruining everything! ;) Jan 21 05:45:29 JayCanuck: with ALL the carrier files. Jan 21 05:45:33 lol Jan 21 05:46:22 dBsooner, wouldn't that require automatically downloading updated webosdoctors as they become available? Jan 21 05:46:32 yes Jan 21 05:46:46 but I have to do that anyway. Jan 21 05:46:46 ;) Jan 21 05:46:50 my webOSDoctor URL Generator works in that regard, but it still need release date Jan 21 05:47:04 dBsooner, carrier package patches are rare, I say just use manual verification Jan 21 05:47:07 http://code.google.com/p/webosdoctor-url-generator/ Jan 21 05:47:25 2 rare events need to collide. 1) carrier package patch + 2) bad patch header (we only have 3 out of 200 patches) Jan 21 05:48:28 well instead of writing in an auto generation of a new patch file, I'll just pay attention to the headers. ;) Jan 21 05:48:40 but auto-generation would be easy. Jan 21 05:50:31 auto-generation is less error prone Jan 21 05:50:41 this is a BAD failure point Jan 21 05:50:44 JayCanuck: is there a reason why internals has an open option, yet I can't get it to actually open anything? Jan 21 05:50:56 sigh Jan 21 05:50:57 fine Jan 21 05:51:02 this means EPR leaves you with required trip to either repair utility or doctor Jan 21 05:51:09 cryptk|work, yep Jan 21 05:51:22 JayCanuck: planning for future integration I take it? Jan 21 05:51:28 it's to annoy you Jan 21 05:51:29 Open will open file will default file handler for that foile's extension Jan 21 05:51:36 dBsooner, and I think I just talked myself into extracting the carrier ipk's :P Jan 21 05:52:13 JayCanuck: what about files with no extension? If they have the executable bit set could we have them open in terminal somehow? Jan 21 05:52:21 nah Jan 21 05:52:27 security vulverability Jan 21 05:52:35 *vulnerability Jan 21 05:52:47 egaudet: http://git.webos-internals.org/trac/webos-patches/ Jan 21 05:52:49 add a ticket. Jan 21 05:52:53 no ticket = no work. :) Jan 21 05:52:57 JayCanuck: even if you added in a popup for them stating "this could pose a security risk, are you sure?" Jan 21 05:53:07 Category would be "Admin Backend" Jan 21 05:53:08 yea Jan 21 05:53:10 dBsooner, no work = no aupt Jan 21 05:53:12 :P Jan 21 05:53:15 shrug Jan 21 05:53:19 sucks for you. :) Jan 21 05:53:31 can i see the current profiile in my phone? Jan 21 05:53:32 really, I'll forget it you don't add the ticket. :) Jan 21 05:53:38 pfft forgeting about patches forever would not suck for me :P Jan 21 05:53:45 Me either. Jan 21 05:53:46 adding ticket now bt Jan 21 05:53:47 btw* Jan 21 05:53:55 JayCanuck: it's possible to do secure informed consent with a callback but kind of a pain to implement, see preware Jan 21 05:54:13 we should just all go SDL :) Jan 21 05:54:30 palms even doing it Jan 21 05:54:32 lol Jan 21 05:54:45 destinal-wirc, ya see the mobile hotspot ipk Jan 21 05:54:56 yup Jan 21 05:55:02 type game Jan 21 05:55:04 even palm's exploiting the "type:game" trick to install ipks, lol Jan 21 05:55:15 jaycanuk: i want to do a scrim patch to change the boot images w/o terminal access... any idea where the css is that tells the pre which files to use? not the png's Jan 21 05:55:44 sslow, that's in the linux binary lunasysmgr Jan 21 05:56:00 thus why webos quick install has the boot image changer Jan 21 05:56:06 Palm is exploiting type: game in private, probably because of need to get verizon engineers a way to test hotspot app Jan 21 05:56:25 yea Jan 21 05:57:23 egaudet: yes I did Jan 21 05:58:10 they don't build for me Jan 21 05:58:19 bbiab Jan 21 05:58:23 what's not building? Jan 21 05:58:26 e_dbus needs ecore as depend I believe Jan 21 05:58:44 and now with expedite i get error missing expedite-webos.patch Jan 21 06:00:24 hmm, looks that file didn't make it into git Jan 21 06:01:46 fixed, pull again Jan 21 06:03:05 dBsooner, here's something to think about: Jan 21 06:03:39 hmm Jan 21 06:03:43 how can I unpack an ipk? Jan 21 06:03:47 if themes go under AUPT, then they need webos-version specific feeds Jan 21 06:03:57 ar -x name.ipk Jan 21 06:04:01 yea Jan 21 06:04:05 does nit work Jan 21 06:04:07 what is the patch option to not create .orig files? Jan 21 06:04:08 not* Jan 21 06:04:11 your ipk is bad? Jan 21 06:04:24 dBsooner, --no-backup-if-mismatch Jan 21 06:04:27 thanks Jan 21 06:04:30 add that to the ticket Jan 21 06:04:34 well that worked for the app ipk Jan 21 06:04:39 so I don't forget that part in the patch line. :) Jan 21 06:04:48 grr Jan 21 06:04:48 but there is a service ipk as well.. I think? Jan 21 06:04:52 just sayin Jan 21 06:05:43 if I go ar -t it lists the files but then I can extract them Jan 21 06:05:50 cant* Jan 21 06:06:36 it the mobile hotspot service ipk im trying to unpack Jan 21 06:08:12 [dbsooner@deluge v1.3.1]$ patch -p1 -no-backup-if-mismatch -d . < ../messaging-character-counter.patch Jan 21 06:08:12 patch: **** Only garbage was found in the patch input. Jan 21 06:08:21 egaudet: ^^ Jan 21 06:08:32 ok, back Jan 21 06:09:14 trac updated with all steps dBsooner verify Jan 21 06:10:08 dBsooner, why are you using -d . Jan 21 06:10:14 -d . is redundant Jan 21 06:10:25 Yeah, i just noticed that.. Jan 21 06:10:31 it was a copy paste command fail on my part Jan 21 06:10:43 you still get only garbage found? Jan 21 06:10:57 going to bed ... egaudet please let me know if you encounter any more issues Jan 21 06:11:12 /usr/local/bin/edje_cc: Error. Compiling script code not clean. Jan 21 06:11:27 still get the same thing though egaudet Jan 21 06:11:30 now that's weird... Jan 21 06:11:38 what package? Jan 21 06:11:47 xcomp, I'll fix anything that is obvious if I can track it down and otherwise get what I can get for you tomorrow Jan 21 06:11:49 if I don't put the -no-backup-if-mismatch it applies, but creates all the .orig Jan 21 06:12:07 -- Jan 21 06:12:23 and its -- Jan 21 06:12:24 not - Jan 21 06:12:26 --no-backup-if-mismatch Jan 21 06:12:28 * dBsooner needs sleep Jan 21 06:12:28 ok Jan 21 06:12:53 why do I have to commit? Jan 21 06:13:05 because git diff won't give you created files Jan 21 06:13:14 or wait did I say commit? Jan 21 06:13:15 woops Jan 21 06:13:17 meant just add Jan 21 06:13:24 yeah, I am not going to commit Jan 21 06:13:57 i git add . ; git diff -b --cached > file.patch ; git reset --hard ; git clean -f Jan 21 06:14:28 clean -f -d Jan 21 06:14:52 k Jan 21 06:15:15 jaycanuck: rom cooker though? this is not rom Jan 21 06:15:21 still getting garbage error? Jan 21 06:15:25 nope Jan 21 06:15:29 I wasn't putting -- Jan 21 06:15:32 k Jan 21 06:15:59 btw, what is wrong with the header in the messaging-character-counter? Jan 21 06:16:08 app-original Jan 21 06:17:10 fix them in 1.3.1 too Jan 21 06:18:16 I am fixing them in 1.3.1 Jan 21 06:18:21 you mean 1.3.5 too Jan 21 06:20:49 is there a tutorial anywhere on how to test my IPK on an actual device? Jan 21 06:21:46 palm sdk docs Jan 21 06:22:23 LoneStar99: I think the command is palm-install but I could be mistaken Jan 21 06:22:29 it is in the docs though Jan 21 06:23:47 looking at sdk folder, no document folder... Jan 21 06:25:02 develooer Jan 21 06:25:29 developer.palm.com Jan 21 06:29:53 good night Jan 21 06:30:04 gn Jan 21 06:57:04 just when I thought everything was clear: have no apps installed trying to "palm-install -d usb thisapp" and get FAILED_NOT_ENOUGH_INSTALL_SPACE Jan 21 07:02:22 maybe you have a time/space paradox? Jan 21 07:02:26 try dividing by zero Jan 21 07:04:46 not sure, only have the default apps installed Jan 21 07:06:22 have had issues with: ubuntu, meta doctor, file sharing, accessing app store, palm profiles, now can't install single f-cking app... Jan 21 07:08:28 anyone up? Jan 21 07:09:14 yeah, Jan 21 07:09:34 that can help me? Jan 21 07:09:57 but won't be much help, have encountered everything that can possibly go wrong Jan 21 07:10:20 with the pre Jan 21 07:10:57 yea i see u been having a ruff day Jan 21 07:11:58 i just doctored now i cant get phone to connect to computer for webosqi Jan 21 07:12:37 JMyaDaGod: is it in developer mode? Jan 21 07:12:52 webos20090606 is the code to bring it up Jan 21 07:13:10 enable dev mode, let the phone reboot, then try again Jan 21 07:13:27 yea its in dev mode im gonna reinstall novacom see if it works Jan 21 07:13:36 yep try that next Jan 21 07:13:43 are you in windows or linux? Jan 21 07:13:49 win 7 Jan 21 07:14:03 don't know much about the win7 quirks with novacom Jan 21 07:14:16 but try doing the novcom reinstall, there is an option for it in QI I think Jan 21 07:14:40 yea its cool thats what i am gonna do i am gonna download another copy of doctor just to be sure Jan 21 07:16:30 make sure you are using the 1.3.5.1 doctor file (or whatever version your phone has on it Jan 21 07:17:11 yea thats why i am redownloading just to be sure what was in the folder is 1.3.5.1 Jan 21 07:17:51 all this because i tried to download verizon hotspot lol Jan 21 07:18:27 you couldn't just uninstall verizon hotspot? Jan 21 07:19:17 i dont know but i wanted to doctor anyway because half the time i am doing stuff not knowing what i am doing lol Jan 21 07:19:32 how do we get verizon hotspot Jan 21 07:19:55 if i do it right in the next 20 min ill let u know Jan 21 07:20:09 where did you download it? Jan 21 07:20:20 nite ya'll Jan 21 07:20:22 someone sent me the ipk Jan 21 07:20:23 hckyplayer024: I was looking into it.. But I couldnt unpack the service Jan 21 07:20:28 hckyplayer024: it is in the app catalog, it is only made to work with verizons service Jan 21 07:20:30 nite Jan 21 07:20:49 but some people are trying to find a way to make it work on sprint... Jan 21 07:20:54 I personally am waiting for freetether Jan 21 07:20:56 I see Jan 21 07:21:01 i dont doubt that it will happen son Jan 21 07:21:04 cryptk|work: whats freetether Jan 21 07:21:07 soon* Jan 21 07:21:12 u dont want to install the one in the app catalog it doesnt work u have to just install 2 of the 3 ipk......It is working already!!!!! Jan 21 07:21:16 freetether is already out Jan 21 07:21:37 nonono the hotspot is working Jan 21 07:21:47 brb with details in about 10 min ok Jan 21 07:22:00 so just install the service and the app? Jan 21 07:22:10 no the pmnet one Jan 21 07:22:28 JMyaDaGod: you had it working? question is how will it show up on your bill... Jan 21 07:22:38 yeah you can find the service and the app here: http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/ Jan 21 07:23:05 in what one Jan 21 07:23:09 cryptk|work : i pretty sure its using ip forwarding because u have to have freetether installed for it to work Jan 21 07:23:13 pre or pixi? Jan 21 07:23:21 pre Jan 21 07:23:41 oh.. us.ryanhope.freetether?? Jan 21 07:23:50 yup Jan 21 07:24:04 is it throttled at all? Jan 21 07:24:06 make sure its ARM7 then Jan 21 07:24:11 idk it works fine for mee Jan 21 07:24:23 what's the DL/PL rate Jan 21 07:24:24 speeds are pretty quick didnt do a speedtest tho Jan 21 07:25:15 JMyaDaGod: how are you doing the hotspot Jan 21 07:26:18 hckyplayer024: in the testing feed is not the same a publicly released, freetether is not publicly released yet Jan 21 07:26:24 u have to install only 2 of the 3 ipk in that pack on app catalog feed ....but u also need freetether so u might as well grab that now Jan 21 07:27:49 how do you get to the app catalog feed? Jan 21 07:28:09 cryptk|work I know but it still works Jan 21 07:28:33 hckyplayer024: it is built into the new preware Jan 21 07:28:40 are you running the most up to date version? Jan 21 07:28:48 of preware and the ipkgservice? Jan 21 07:28:54 yeah I am Jan 21 07:28:57 cryptik|work are u sure it is still there? Jan 21 07:29:08 they removed but it was cached Jan 21 07:29:26 JMyaDaGod: I remember seeing it in there, I don't know if it still is or not Jan 21 07:31:07 lunch time, bbiab Jan 21 07:36:30 where does preware store its packages? Jan 21 07:36:54 JMyaDaGod: did you get it working yet Jan 21 07:36:56 After installing a few patches (16), my Palm Pre has suddenly decided to run with a load average of 5! Jan 21 07:36:59 Ouch. Jan 21 07:40:45 mw: did one of the packages have a dependency? Jan 21 07:40:55 perhaps something that required a java restart? Jan 21 07:41:30 and what do you mean where does it store it's packages? they are stored on a server and downloaded when they need to be installed Jan 21 07:43:18 I'm curious to know where Preware stores its package information and apps on the device Jan 21 07:44:19 (already running dropbear + PuTTY; I'm really looking to update the Launcher title string to DayOfWeek-dd instead of dd-MMM-yy) Jan 21 07:44:44 hckyplayer024 : no for some reason my phone is in offline mode permentaly........imma erase and try it again but if i cant get it i know that Kyusaku knows how Jan 21 07:45:01 I'll try a /sbin/stop java-serviceboot next time it starts going so slow. Jan 21 07:45:01 okay Jan 21 07:45:54 I don't think any of the patches had dependencies that weren't fulfilled (answered "yes" to all of them). Jan 21 07:46:14 I have used both Preware and webOS QuickInstaller to install patches; that might be a bad idea? Jan 21 07:49:57 mw: I was wondering if a java restart could have temporarilly increased the load average, did any of them require a restart? Jan 21 07:50:18 and preware installs things to the same location that app-catalog apps are isntalled to Jan 21 07:50:34 and isntalling patches through both preware and quick install is fine, they are compatible... Jan 21 07:50:39 cryptk: A couple of the patches did require Luna restarts. Jan 21 07:53:46 cryptk: /var/palm/data is one of the directories I'm looking for. Jan 21 07:54:56 mw: a luna restart is required after each patch install (or you can install several patches then restart after they are all installed). The luna restart is required for them to take effect Jan 21 07:55:19 I am curious about a JAVA restart, Preware would have prompted you saying "Java restart required" Jan 21 07:55:36 but if you restarted luna after everything then that isn't it Jan 21 07:55:51 is the load average still at 5 or has it gone down? Jan 21 07:56:09 destinal-wirc: JayCanuck needs to call it a ROM cooker, so the mobile-files.com guys know what to use ... Jan 21 07:56:14 when the phone flashes palm for like 10 seconds is that a java or luna restart Jan 21 07:56:37 lol, rwhitby Jan 21 07:57:51 firestrider: luna Jan 21 07:57:52 firestrider: that is a luna restart Jan 21 07:58:03 java restart is when you loose cellular signal for 30 seconds Jan 21 07:58:11 exactly Jan 21 07:58:13 and the phone goes sluggish Jan 21 07:58:44 and the phone will go slow Jan 21 07:58:45 "uptime" shows 3.4, 2.4, 1.7 now Jan 21 07:58:45 damn... beat me to it Jan 21 07:59:29 I didn't know there was java on the phone I thought it was all css/js/html Jan 21 07:59:37 cryptk|work : which ipk is the service for freetether; the one in armv7 or in all? Jan 21 08:00:01 Much better than before. Jan 21 08:00:04 both Jan 21 08:00:19 isnt one app other one service? Jan 21 08:00:21 JMyaDaGod: all just lists them all, including the ones in armv7 Jan 21 08:00:34 JMyaDaGod: I haven't messed with freetether so i don't know Jan 21 08:00:45 o ok Jan 21 08:00:52 hoefully restart works Jan 21 08:00:53 is java used just for the networking? Jan 21 08:00:58 JMyaDaGod: I only test things that I am asked to test (or that I asked to be a tester for) Jan 21 08:01:13 anyone familiar with the undocumented com.palm.display/control/getProperty system call? Jan 21 08:01:15 firestrider: Java is used for alot of the background things that make the phone work Jan 21 08:02:09 JayCanuck: I would tell you that I am very familiar with all aspects of that system call, except for the fact that I'm not, lol Jan 21 08:02:17 lol Jan 21 08:02:42 At least he didn't tell you that he wasn't familiar with it until after you sent him a donation over paypal Jan 21 08:02:47 perhaps I can help you brainstorm it though... it is undocumented so there is a possibility that nobody knows much about it Jan 21 08:02:53 I asked him something once and he said send him $2, I did and then he said "I dunno" :) Jan 21 08:03:22 psykoz: I did no suck thing Jan 21 08:03:30 * cryptk|work remembers it beint $5 Jan 21 08:03:34 XD Jan 21 08:03:35 lol Jan 21 08:03:50 haha j/k Jan 21 08:03:52 I thought you and I had a conversation about you being a $2 whore though? Jan 21 08:04:02 not me... lol Jan 21 08:04:06 I think I woulda remembered that one Jan 21 08:04:25 * psykoz grins Jan 21 08:04:38 oh well back to real stuff Jan 21 08:05:58 dtzWill: how go's the VBA work? Jan 21 08:07:06 cryptk|work: good :D Jan 21 08:07:17 dtzWill, I wish you had a compiled version against vba 1.8.0 ;( Jan 21 08:07:30 only 1.8.0 can play classic nes games ;( Jan 21 08:07:47 psykoz: see git, there's a working 1.8.0 branch Jan 21 08:07:57 psykoz: it fixes a few issues but in general is significantly slower Jan 21 08:08:13 ;( means i'd have to learn how to compilez0rstuff ;( Jan 21 08:08:25 psykoz: and since no one (else) had complained about said issues it seemed speed was bigger--and as I get a chance i'll move stuff back like palette fixes etc Jan 21 08:08:57 psykoz: oh you did say *compiled*. well i could probably be convinced to build one special, but like i said it'd be a bit slower. bug me about it some other time b/c i'm rather deep in what i'm doing but i'll hook you up at some point Jan 21 08:09:21 cryptk|work: lots of goodies in the works, but nothing super earthshattering unfortunately Jan 21 08:09:24 I should just be unlazy though, but maybe I'll take you up on that offer Jan 21 08:09:30 the speed is getting much nicer though! Jan 21 08:09:54 Still can't play my zelda four swords with sound, but without sound I'm still happier than not having it at all ;> Jan 21 08:10:17 psykoz: compiling is actually pretty easy Jan 21 08:10:29 if you are running linux that is Jan 21 08:10:29 I need to build a linux vm Jan 21 08:10:35 and I hate linux =[ Jan 21 08:10:38 <-- bsd/solaris nerd Jan 21 08:10:47 WHA!!! what's wrong with linux, lol Jan 21 08:10:57 doesn't have a real filesystem ;> Jan 21 08:11:05 psykoz: sure it does Jan 21 08:11:10 nuuuuUuuu Jan 21 08:11:14 ext3 Jan 21 08:11:14 srs, it doesn't ;) Jan 21 08:12:13 what's solaris have Jan 21 08:12:17 firestrider: I use ext4 Jan 21 08:12:19 zfs? Jan 21 08:13:02 zfs ;> Jan 21 08:13:08 <3 zfs Jan 21 08:15:40 what's the difference between them? any real world perf difference? Jan 21 08:17:27 well zfs does perform better with regards to physical io, etc. But that being said I don't know if that's the real world benefit of using a filesystem like zfs that has self-healing, built in raid capabilities, checksumming on the fly (works in parallel with self-healing in raid-mirror sets), etc Jan 21 08:20:49 hmm luna keeps sporadically restarting... Jan 21 08:22:16 I think it's faulty hardware now since I just did a full erase + doctor, but I did put preware terminal luna manager and wirc on Jan 21 08:22:44 terminal causes luna to restart Jan 21 08:22:52 with latest version of terminal/webOS Jan 21 08:23:14 you should really limit using it only if you really really really need to use it and leave it open for as long as you can Jan 21 08:23:22 even if ur not using it? Jan 21 08:23:26 it's exiting terminal that really fucks ya right now Jan 21 08:28:35 sryan: the first time you close terminal after a luna restart it will be fine, the second time causes the luna restart Jan 21 08:28:42 cryptk|work: you'll be up for the next bunch of hours, right? Jan 21 08:28:44 they know about it and are working on a fix Jan 21 08:28:56 until about 7 or so (central time) Jan 21 08:29:02 dtzWill: ^^^ Jan 21 08:29:56 cryptk|work: rough (that you're up until then in that timezone, assuming that's your native timezone) Jan 21 08:29:59 cryptk|work: work nights? Jan 21 08:30:06 cryptk|work: BUT that means i might have something for you to play with :D Jan 21 08:30:09 but.. we'll see Jan 21 08:30:13 http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/20/palm-pre-plus-and-pixi-plus-review/ Jan 21 08:30:50 dtzWill: yeah, I work night shift Jan 21 08:31:31 http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/20/palm-suddenly-means-business-with-games-heading-to-gdc-this-yea/ Jan 21 08:34:49 psykoz: didn't see your comments earlier. yeah sound is mostly not even 'my' fault--pulseaudio ends up taking ~15% of the cpu with sound on Jan 21 08:35:11 psykoz: and i haven't figured out why, etc, but that means something ELSE gets 15% cpu that we could be using for emulation goodness. Jan 21 08:35:24 "On the Pre, we saw a notable increase in the amount of cards we could have open at a single time, and with ten separate apps up, we were still able to load Need for Speed: Undercover -- an impressive feat no matter how you slice it. We certainly found that memory errors (warnings to kill some cards) were far less prevalent than on the Sprint version" Jan 21 08:36:13 * dtzWill takes apart his pre and puts new memory in it. it's removable right? Jan 21 08:36:16 ..right guys? :) Jan 21 08:36:26 sure, they sell it at Fry's Jan 21 08:36:36 jacques: oh wait seriously the pre uses removable memory? haha Jan 21 08:38:15 dtzWill: facepalm... Jan 21 08:40:51 "Oh, one hitch -- you'll have to cough up an additional $40 for the use of the hotspot, with a 5GB cap and a $.05 per MB charge after that. It might be cheaper than a 3G card plan... but not much." Jan 21 08:41:03 dtzWill, seriously? ... no. Jan 21 08:41:58 $40 per month? rite big V ... riiiiiight. Jan 21 08:42:42 jacques: any comments, insight on org.webosinternals.saverestore? Jan 21 08:44:04 http://mylifeisnerdy.co.cc/story/2010-01-03+01:14:11 Jan 21 08:44:07 rwhitby, I'm visiting family in OK and haven't had hardly any time to participate these last few days ... sorry :-\ Jan 21 08:44:24 I haven't taken a good look at saverestore Jan 21 08:44:40 jacques: np Jan 21 08:47:30 >_> Jan 21 08:47:40 cough Jan 21 08:47:41 sorry guys Jan 21 08:47:41 haha Jan 21 08:48:18 * dtzWill hands in his geek card Jan 21 08:51:02 is there a changelog available for patches? a couple of mine have updates but I have no clue what changed. Jan 21 08:53:13 WillJitsu: there is not. probably look at the forum thread listed in the description homepage link Jan 21 08:53:26 does anyone know how to disable the cursor? Jan 21 08:53:31 particularly that ripple effect? Jan 21 08:53:44 rwhitby: gotcha. thanks. Jan 21 08:53:50 it takes a painful amount of processing to make that happen while playing, lol Jan 21 08:58:52 dtzWill: I have noticed that in NFS the cursor at some points is different... as far as how to turn it off, I have no idea :( Jan 21 09:05:19 lots-o-people Jan 21 09:08:16 +rwhitby: Is there a suggested best practices for webOS dev't in emacs? Jan 21 09:08:33 hey cdm Jan 21 09:08:53 cdm: is /usr/local likely to be used by Palm? Jan 21 09:09:09 mw: have you seen the WIDK ? Jan 21 09:09:12 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS_Internals_PDK Jan 21 09:09:35 mw: or are you talking webOS mojo development? Jan 21 09:10:51 I noticed WIDK; it looks interesting. Jan 21 09:11:07 That's more what I'm thinking of than mojo dev't. Jan 21 09:12:03 mw: so I just cross compile stuff in an ssh iTerminal on my mac laptop ssh'd into a VirtualBox VM running Ubuntu 9.10 server, running emacs in non-graphical mode. Jan 21 09:13:43 OK - no fancy tramp setups or gud integrations so far. Jan 21 09:14:02 mw: oh, if I want to edit a file on the Pre, then I use tramp over wifi Jan 21 09:14:22 (OpenSSH SFTP Server in Preware, root, ssh keys) Jan 21 09:14:29 cryptk|work: interesting. if it wasn't late i might be convinced to go see if i can figure out how they do it :) Jan 21 09:14:34 meep Jan 21 09:15:02 hey geist Jan 21 09:15:18 dtzWill: all they did was change it into a square grafic instead of a round one, but I don't know if that would actually lead to a means to disable it. Jan 21 09:15:25 +rwhitby: Thanks for the pointers. Jan 21 09:16:02 what about looking at some of the themes that alter the color of the cursor, could you possibly find a way to change it to just a non-animated, non-transparent dot? Jan 21 09:16:15 hi, one user has started to port Navit to the pre but is having problems. I tried to tell him that he could find help in this chat. But for whatever reason I'm having problem to post in the forum at the moment. Could someone add the information the the tred please Jan 21 09:16:21 http://forums.precentral.net/webos-internals/224609-navit-pre.html Jan 21 09:16:27 Thanks in advance Jan 21 09:19:59 cryptk|work: ah okay. yeah really it's just that that stupid ripple effect seems to take processing power :(. and doesn't make sense in the context of the game anyway Jan 21 09:20:02 cryptk|work: tyvm for the info Jan 21 09:22:44 dtzWill: np, I don't know if it will lead to a solution or not, but it may lead to something... Jan 21 09:49:48 hello Jan 21 09:50:41 hello Jan 21 09:51:09 it quiet here. guess everyone asleep Jan 21 09:51:20 it is off and on Jan 21 09:51:34 the people that are awake check IRC from time to time while they are working on things Jan 21 09:51:45 but it does die off a bit late at night Jan 21 09:51:50 gotcha. Jan 21 09:51:59 Except me Jan 21 09:52:04 I am always watching. Jan 21 09:52:07 well.. and me Jan 21 09:52:20 I've seen what you do Jan 21 09:52:26 I watch from home... I watch from work... I watch from my Pre when I am not at either... Jan 21 09:52:30 There are changes happening, not all of them good. Jan 21 09:52:42 I am trying to find a disigner. for this stopwatch/timer I am making. Jan 21 09:52:50 destrudo: what are you talking about?? Jan 21 09:52:54 another one? Jan 21 09:53:02 it is almost done, but I want it to look good. Jan 21 09:53:08 cryptk|work: I'm insane. Jan 21 09:54:22 how can I create custom buttons and interface into my webos app. if I don't wanna use palm buttoms Jan 21 09:54:43 you guys have any idea? Jan 21 09:58:00 make them with HTML and javascript Jan 21 09:59:35 sorry if my question is nobby, I m very new to this, how can html create a custom button. Jan 21 10:00:04 I thought you would need to make it in a photoshop or somthing Jan 21 10:01:23 well, you would need an image file to use ye Jan 21 10:01:28 s/ye/yes/ Jan 21 10:01:29 cryptk|work meant: well, you would need an image file to use yes Jan 21 10:01:47 that is all basic web coding stuff Jan 21 10:02:08 check out www.w3schools.com they have some good tutorials on HTML CSS and JavaScript Jan 21 10:02:47 ok thx Jan 21 10:30:40 hi, since the 1.3.5.2 update for the GSM Pre I've got a battery drain of about 8% / hour while idling ( screen off ) . it seems like the pre resets the ppp0 device regularly as the traffic on the device, reported by ifconfig. regularly is below 1kb. ideas anyone? Jan 21 10:38:35 bsm: is your pre connecting to anything? like chat? pulling email? Jan 21 10:39:48 cryptk|work: that's the point, no open connections, fetching emails once and hour, backups disabled Jan 21 10:40:28 hrm... not sure... I haven't noticed anything weird with the battery on 1.3.5.1 Jan 21 10:40:40 have you checked top for running processes? Jan 21 10:43:53 I don't think there is something special. the device also sleeps for several minutes between wakeups, just like it did prior to the update Jan 21 10:44:33 I did a partial reset now and recognized, that it also erased all installed apps ans borked installed patches, so I'm going with the doctor. Jan 21 10:57:17 and another question, where does the pre stores the Pin for the SIM card? after a complete reinstall I did not need to enter a phone pin, does it deactivate the pin? Jan 21 11:00:07 bsm: I don't know anything about SIM cards unfortunately... My pre is not a GSM unit. Jan 21 11:00:15 is there any way to access the USB style media partition, over bluetooth? I hate plugging my phone in. Jan 21 11:02:26 FreeTim: you could create a bluetooth network and SCP into it... Jan 21 11:03:15 I like it, it sounds interesting. I think I may have WinSCP around this notebook somewhere Jan 21 11:03:34 FreeTim: you rooted your phone? Jan 21 11:03:45 doesn't it COME rooted? Jan 21 11:04:05 but I have access by command line, like over novaproxy and putty Jan 21 11:05:22 (i only meant - there is no such thing as rooting a Pre.) - but I know what you're asking, and I can access by terminal I'm comfy with that Jan 21 11:06:39 bsm: the pre is not like the iphone... there is no magic needed to gain root access Jan 21 11:06:40 they have it nice and open for developers... Palm actually WANTS us to mess with it Jan 21 11:08:40 FreeTim: I know what you meant, I was directing that towards bsm Jan 21 11:08:41 bbiab Jan 21 11:09:27 i think my somewhat sarcastic response, scared him off. Sorry didn't mean to Jan 21 11:10:51 technically the only magic needed with the iPhone is to access a GSM network Jan 21 11:10:57 yeah, I'm so scared that I don't dare to say anything :D Jan 21 11:11:25 and rooting the pre or gaining root access still requires the konami code Jan 21 11:11:49 but then you have unlimited lives incase you screw up in the terminal =x Jan 21 11:12:26 ^^ Jan 21 11:19:15 bsm: the difference is that accessing developer mode (and therefore terminal and root) is all documented by palm and released to the public, it isn't hidden in any way Jan 21 11:19:30 there is no 'jailbreaking' needed to run homebrew apps Jan 21 11:23:25 and it doesnt void our warranty Jan 21 11:24:07 we dont have to seek his jobsness's aproval before using the wrong multi-touch gesture Jan 21 11:31:16 that's the main reason I didn't get an iphone. Fuck apple Jan 21 11:31:22 the device seems nice enough Jan 21 11:33:40 the device is nice, the hardcore propriatary fashion in which it is controlled is not. Jan 21 11:34:04 indeed Jan 21 11:34:27 I find that same problem (to a lesser extent) with all apple products tough. I boycott them as hard as I can Jan 21 11:53:52 I saw a new commercials for Sprint, talking about the Android, and spilling a drink on the very brief Palm Pre mention... horrible, horrible ad and in no way pushes the Pre. Again, marketing falls down on it's face despite a terrific product in the Palm Pre. Jan 21 11:54:16 I hope Palm in no way helped pay for that ad. Horrible! Jan 21 11:59:19 jettero: Me, too. Especially the proprietary itunes songs format, for example Jan 21 11:59:52 I wish the Palm supported (played) .ogg format though. That'd be very nice. Jan 21 12:09:21 FreeTim: I'm surprised it doesn't play ogg. Very Jan 21 12:09:29 what happens if you rename the ogg to an .mp3? Jan 21 12:09:30 heh Jan 21 12:09:39 I'm not being totally serious Jan 21 12:11:09 maybe it's my encoding. I'll encode a fresh one and test it out from work, after commute Jan 21 12:11:36 it's simple enough to check, ls /usr/lib/*ogg* Jan 21 12:13:09 I see so.0.5.3 ... Jan 21 13:31:44 Wow, who tripped over the network plug? Jan 21 13:35:25 hm, my palm resets the traffic on the ppp0 device after going to sleep and waking up, pppd is still running on the same PID. ideas anyone? and what is up with freenode? Jan 21 13:40:17 o my o my Jan 21 13:40:26 pre+ reviews are everywhere Jan 21 13:40:41 i would love to get gsm pre Jan 21 13:40:50 but i'm not gonna pay 800 bucks for it Jan 21 13:54:36 jettero: actually renaming to a supported ext CAN help on pre Jan 21 14:04:20 but, the format would be different on .ogg than it is on .mp3 Jan 21 14:06:30 what is the oreo twisting effect Jan 21 14:06:50 u should google for pic Jan 21 14:07:12 http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/07/palm-pre-twist-07-23-09.jpg oreo twist Jan 21 14:07:15 ;) Jan 21 14:07:21 do you know what oreos are? Jan 21 14:07:28 yeah Jan 21 14:07:38 black people who act like white people Jan 21 14:07:41 :D Jan 21 14:07:47 lol Jan 21 14:07:54 or is it the reverse Jan 21 14:08:00 it's when you can twist the front of the pre and the back of the pre in different directions. Jan 21 14:08:16 that would be an awesome feature, landscape with keyboard Jan 21 14:08:25 lol Jan 21 14:08:29 Towzzer, i second this Jan 21 14:09:22 seems the mobile hotspot that was on the catalog last night Jan 21 14:09:26 was acutally meant for verizon people Jan 21 14:09:28 as a feature Jan 21 14:09:38 you don't say Jan 21 14:09:58 Towzzer, no offense, but it seems like you are in a perpetual state of old news Jan 21 14:11:14 i just woke up Jan 21 14:11:36 VincentLaw, i didn/t know too Jan 21 14:11:37 :( Jan 21 14:18:16 "2010-01-21T14:16:09.097808Z [343] palm-webos-device daemon.info pppd[1574]: Connect time 5.1 minutes." my messages file is full of short connections without reason :( Jan 21 14:25:52 morning folks Jan 21 14:28:04 yay!!!!!!!!!!!! Jan 21 14:28:04 finally got cable Jan 21 14:28:22 lol Jan 21 14:28:36 Company? Jan 21 14:29:21 comcast probably :P Jan 21 14:55:42 what a great time to get a new internet connection, during netsplits Jan 21 15:04:09 morning Jan 21 15:21:05 In my dream world -- soon before/after June 12th Sprint will offer its own variety of the Pre Plus (maybe with 4G?). That way I can give my wife my pre and upgrade myself ... Jan 21 15:23:04 bt, wimax, wifi and evdo rev a? so much connectivity! Jan 21 15:27:00 I sure hope that Sprint/Walmart 4G rumor is true Jan 21 15:35:25 nt4cats|work: in my dream world, there are unicorns and rainbow houses, and sometimes friggin hobgoblins chasing me. I'll trade ya Jan 21 15:35:53 ~smack ryan_gahl Jan 21 15:35:54 * infobot smacks ryan_gahl upside the head. Jan 21 15:35:59 :p Jan 21 15:36:32 Kyusaku: where did you hear/read this rumor? Jan 21 15:37:11 the app catalog feed annoys me. there are a few different things that are just completely missing from it Jan 21 15:38:09 like the original app submission date (when the app was FIRST published, not updated), and a separate tally for downloads vs updates (total downloads actually counts all downloads including updates) Jan 21 15:38:54 from what I can tell, I actually have no way whatsoever to determine when an app made it to the catalog without going through precentral's lists of blog posts >.> Jan 21 15:40:11 $1.99 or $2.49 ? Jan 21 15:41:36 In my dream world -- soon before/after June 12th Sprint will offer its own variety of the Pre Plus (maybe with 4G?). That way I can give my wife my pre and upgrade myself ... <-- I hope with the 4G but honestly there's no 4G around here which makes me sad panda Jan 21 15:41:55 and from what I can glean from google, nothing coming this year so far either :/ Jan 21 15:42:45 I live in Philadelphia, we have Sprint 4G Jan 21 15:48:14 good morning Jan 21 15:48:28 I need some help Jan 21 15:48:29 4G would be nice because it is something I could use to make my VZW and AT&T friends jealous. I don't really care about the extra flash in the PrePlus, but I do sorta covet the extra RAM Jan 21 15:48:48 TreoRock: what's your issue? Jan 21 15:49:03 anybody knows how to copy the output of the Palm Pre terminal? Jan 21 15:49:20 I'm helping Greg with his plug-ins Jan 21 15:49:39 Do you just want to show him something? You could screenshot it .. Jan 21 15:50:12 ic there is no way to copy and paste? Jan 21 15:50:36 in the terminal application ? Jan 21 15:50:40 or using novaterm ? Jan 21 15:51:19 he asked me to open the terminal on my Palm Pre and PM him the output Jan 21 15:51:30 after using the plugin Jan 21 15:51:35 you're gonna have to type it out Jan 21 15:51:45 or screenshot it and send him the mimage Jan 21 15:51:51 s/mimage/image/ Jan 21 15:51:52 nt4cats|work meant: or screenshot it and send him the image Jan 21 15:52:24 ok, i'll do that Jan 21 15:52:27 thanks Jan 21 15:52:36 back to testing Jan 21 15:53:13 nt4cats|work: SprintUsers posted an article and a couple other places mentioned it Jan 21 15:53:33 Kyusaku: linkl? Jan 21 15:53:42 supposedly there's a rumor of Sprint working a deal with Walmart to put their 4G towers on their stores Jan 21 15:53:44 s/nkl/nk/ Jan 21 15:53:44 nt4cats|work meant: Kyusaku: link? Jan 21 15:53:52 even CNET BuzzOutLoud covered it Jan 21 15:53:54 hold Jan 21 15:54:02 lemme find it was like a week ago Jan 21 15:54:55 i haven't seen many walmarts on big hills Jan 21 15:55:02 here is an Engadget article http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/12/sprint-hooking-up-with-walmart-for-wimax-buildout/ Jan 21 15:57:28 http://www.androidguys.com/2010/01/12/rumor-sprint-working-with-walmart-on-wimax-build-out/ Jan 21 15:57:50 has a map of predicted 4G coverage if the deal would happen Jan 21 16:02:41 Kyusaku: tyvm Jan 21 16:07:46 * VincentLaw cries Jan 21 16:08:11 the app catalog feed has the screenshot urls just plastered together in one string Jan 21 16:08:45 not only do I have to break it apart, there's no seperator, and there's different image sizes mixed in Jan 21 16:09:59 oh, and better still, it has /localized/ images in there too! all mixed together! Jan 21 16:10:09 whoever made the palm catalog feed needs to be shot IMO >.> Jan 21 16:10:21 haha Jan 21 16:11:07 the staff that works on the app catalog is pretty shaky Jan 21 16:12:01 the only thing I can think of from looking at this feed is that the feed must have used newlines to separate the image urls. which naturally got stripped Jan 21 16:16:08 egaudet_work: ping Jan 21 16:16:52 hello Mr. Beames Jan 21 16:17:01 lol Jan 21 16:17:05 egaudet_work: http://git.webos-internals.org/trac/webos-patches/changeset/0bb751accd6067a101b9c0b9d27308db508641d0 Jan 21 16:17:21 egaudet_work: Clean Patches by applying then git diff'ing ---- DONE! Jan 21 16:17:31 All it took was that little bit of code. :) Jan 21 16:17:32 mister.. andserson.. Jan 21 16:18:28 dBsooner: what's this about, then? I didn't get it last night Jan 21 16:18:45 dBsooner: what if patch fails to apply Jan 21 16:19:16 egaudet_work: It shouldn't because the admin SHOULD be doing a "TEST PATCH' first Jan 21 16:19:30 and where are you putting the output of git diff Jan 21 16:19:32 dbSooner: any chance to add a direct link to the patch on your site? Sometimesthe "homepage" link is some old thread with outdated material. Jan 21 16:19:37 I don't understand why you're applying a dif and then using git to make one from it Jan 21 16:19:46 this sounds wacky Jan 21 16:19:49 I think "test patch" should be 2nd/last/final thing Jan 21 16:19:54 don't "test...OK...regenerate" Jan 21 16:19:59 do "regenerate...test...ok" Jan 21 16:20:00 IMO Jan 21 16:20:05 no Jan 21 16:20:14 because I am just dry-running it Jan 21 16:20:17 destinal-wirc: because the patch isn't guaranteed to have "correct" headers Jan 21 16:20:17 dtzWill: hey.. I don't think you versioned your updates :D still need testing? Jan 21 16:20:18 are you guys sniffing too much of the glue? Jan 21 16:20:21 to see if it applies in its state Jan 21 16:20:30 meaning the patch submitted could have false file path for orig file Jan 21 16:20:30 Which it SHOULD Jan 21 16:20:47 if a --dry-run fails, then regeneration will fail. Jan 21 16:20:48 and lsdiff uses the orig filename in a diff Jan 21 16:20:50 So testing needs to go first. Jan 21 16:20:58 dBsooner: well forget dry run Jan 21 16:21:16 apply it (if it fails that means dry run failed) if it succeeds generate new one Jan 21 16:21:21 egaudet_work: and there's enough malformed patches that we can't just reject them? Jan 21 16:21:35 destinal-wirc: why reject them though? Jan 21 16:21:46 egaudet_work: It's just easier to do the "test patch" first Jan 21 16:22:02 because "test patch" goes and tests the .patch file against ALL current versions of webos Jan 21 16:22:07 typically a project has, run diff with these parameters Jan 21 16:22:22 if you fail, your patch is not accepted Jan 21 16:22:30 so when you go to "accept it", you can select the other webos versions the maintainer may not have tested. Jan 21 16:22:41 THEN.. during the ACCEPT process, it actually regenerates it. Jan 21 16:22:47 saving the output in the git repo directory. Jan 21 16:23:17 crap, no tcpdump for the pre :( Jan 21 16:24:12 nt4cats: not in optware? Jan 21 16:24:23 destinal-wirc: the patch doesn't fail Jan 21 16:24:37 and human eye verification isn't robust Jan 21 16:24:51 regeneration is -guaranteed- to get a correct header Jan 21 16:24:53 there seems to be like 4 volume(s) ... is there a convenient place to check them all? Jan 21 16:24:54 Kyusaku: The Homepage link is what the maintainer supplies, it's all you get. :) Jan 21 16:25:35 Kyusaku: I don't store the .patch file after it's accepted. After acceptance, it's only in the gitorious.org repo. Jan 21 16:25:41 dbsooner: =( guess I'll just keep an eye on git repository then Jan 21 16:25:46 :) Jan 21 16:25:56 dBsooner: i dont see you saving the patch in the link you sent Jan 21 16:26:03 i see git diff -b --cached just end Jan 21 16:26:31 egaudet_work: file_put_contents('../../git/modifications/v'.$webos_version.'/'.$category2.'/'.$patchname.'.patch', $new_patch_file);  Jan 21 16:26:44 that git diff -b line is storing into a variable Jan 21 16:26:48 zsoc: the binary you mean? no i don't push binaries into git for anything other than releases just b/c that makes lame diffs/takes space/etc Jan 21 16:26:57 zsoc: pm Jan 21 16:27:18 ohk Jan 21 16:27:52 less disk copy operations = less room for error Jan 21 16:28:26 danigt.. I got dog pooh on my boot. I HATE working outside sometimes. Jan 21 16:28:50 especially when you need your heater on, so you put it on "floor" and it blows the smell up Jan 21 16:28:51 sheesh Jan 21 16:31:01 mv +dBsooner /usr/inside Jan 21 16:34:50 yeah, tell me about it Jan 21 16:37:23 hey TMI, TMI Lol Jan 21 16:37:47 I had to share my misfortune. Jan 21 16:39:05 who would i check with, btw - to get an OK to use the preware or other webos-internals imagery for a skin in an app i'm making - we're trying to create a ton of community-centric skins (app will be 100% free, btw)... and think it'd be neat to have a few homebrew skins too Jan 21 16:40:06 destinal-wirc: I don't see tcpdump available in preware .. I'll check the optware home page Jan 21 16:40:49 destinal-wirc: I'm soooo close to getting my little Pre networking side project working, and tcpdump will show me exactly what is going on .... Jan 21 16:40:59 ryan_gahl: Most, if not all, of the work done by a WebOS-Internals team member is GPL or MIT licensed. I would recommend checking with the creator of the images. Most of the images are on the wiki. You can see the status page to see who uploaded/created them. Jan 21 16:41:09 Templarian is probably one of the main people that makes the images. Jan 21 16:41:20 oil when he's not being lazy. :) Jan 21 16:41:55 * Templarian is being lazy. Jan 21 16:42:13 Well you're always lazy Templarian. Jan 21 16:42:42 hey some call that 'efficient' LOL Jan 21 16:42:54 +dBsooner: cool, thx Jan 21 16:43:00 so, ryan_gahl, I recommend talking with Templarian. Then further talking with oil or rwhitby if it involves more of the layout and other aspects of Preware. Jan 21 16:43:14 +Templarian: hi Jan 21 16:43:46 * Templarian hands ryan a grenade and walks back to work stuff. Jan 21 16:43:56 lol Jan 21 16:44:03 He's a bit moody at times. Jan 21 16:45:01 you can't program without being lazy, unless it's a lifetime project that is never released :p Jan 21 16:45:05 +Templarian: lol -- ANYWAY... here's some examples we've done up for other apps so far: http://twitpic.com/yxgnb http://twitpic.com/yz5o3 Jan 21 16:45:34 all the graphically inclined people I got a question. Where do you start? Jan 21 16:45:45 at the top left pixel Jan 21 16:45:49 lol Jan 21 16:45:52 egaudet_work: top left usually Jan 21 16:45:55 How do you find images, what photoshop type programs, where do you learn how/what to shade gloss fix etc Jan 21 16:46:13 I know right.. I know NOTHING about graphics. Jan 21 16:46:15 I was thinking if I ever want to make anything, it would be stick figures only Jan 21 16:46:27 Hints why the WebOS-Patches Web-Portal has a total of 3 images on it. Jan 21 16:46:31 egaudet_work: gimp is amazing, and it takes natural talent. a tablet helps Jan 21 16:46:31 blah first of all don't use photoshop. Jan 21 16:46:48 egaudet_work: you should get all of your stock artwork from asciipr0n.com Jan 21 16:46:56 lol Jan 21 16:47:00 nt4cats|work: Man I love that site. Jan 21 16:47:35 ryan_gahl: your design skills seem good enough to make an icon... Jan 21 16:47:36 I tried to use gimp... and uhh yeah this is what i came up with... Jan 21 16:48:02 hmm I lost it Jan 21 16:48:15 zsoc: "natural talent" doesn't exist in my world Jan 21 16:48:21 egaudet_work: imo graphic design is similar to software design, some talent, some knowledge, much experience Jan 21 16:48:27 Anyone take to heart what PC.net says about the Pre Plus and its "50!" open cards? Jan 21 16:48:32 +Templarian: I'm not asking you to do anything, just for permission to use what's already there :) Jan 21 16:48:52 egaudet_work: someone can be naturally inclined to arcitectually design a program better than someone else Jan 21 16:48:58 Oh, permission to use what exactly? Jan 21 16:49:16 for example, the preware peng-in-a-box Jan 21 16:49:28 Let's pretend I had "talent" for a moment, do you guys scour the web for images? Jan 21 16:50:42 egaudet_work: just to get an idea of what best displays what one is trying to show. For instance privacy icon is best known for a pad lock, searching around gives an idea of what to design. Bring that into vector and make it fit the style. Jan 21 16:50:45 http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/blobs/master/labyrinth/images/board_level1.png Jan 21 16:51:24 when I first thought about making a labyrinth app before I got deep into webos development, that is what my first try at gimp came up with... and then I cried Jan 21 16:51:33 egaudet_work: that's hideous ;) Jan 21 16:51:35 ryan_gahl: Preware is open source, I believe it's icon is also (unless the licence kept rights but I believe it's under MIT). Jan 21 16:52:05 egaudet_work: a lot of tries. keep making more versions and look at them all next to each other. trash some and continue with others Jan 21 16:52:10 +Templaraian: ok - I just thought it best to ask first :) Jan 21 16:52:12 egaudet_work: think more rock texture and walls. Jan 21 16:52:46 ryan_gahl: what exactly did you need it for anyway? Jan 21 16:52:51 +Templarian: we'll do up a skin and post it here to see what ya'll think Jan 21 16:52:59 I think my main problem is I have no idea how to start trying to make things look like anything. I'll have to read a gimp manual or something I guess Jan 21 16:53:11 Oh, I see now. Jan 21 16:53:24 +Templarian: did you look at those links in my previous post here (scroll up a tick) Jan 21 16:53:28 ah ok Jan 21 16:53:47 egaudet_work: first of all ditch gimp and use an Adobe software or you are just wasting time. Jan 21 16:53:54 hello, i'm currently on the road and do not have access to a full browser. can anyone help me with the appropriatecommands to force my (now invisible) PDFViewer to reappear in the launcher? thx. Jan 21 16:54:37 what do you recommend Templarian Jan 21 16:54:56 Davide-NYC: how did you get it invisible in the first place? Jan 21 16:55:02 +Templarian: and just to be clear, I'm not the designer - my advice to egaudet_work is: love thine designer friends... shower them with gifts, make them equal partners in whatever you do together Jan 21 16:55:37 Photoshop for photo / general work, Illustrator for vector/iconography Jan 21 16:56:11 I have no clue. It's either visible or invisible on reboot. Jan 21 16:56:25 did you patch it at all? Jan 21 16:56:26 I use Fireworks CS4 since it gives quick mockups and I don't have a tablet yet. Jan 21 16:56:47 nt4cats: install optware and ipkg-opt packages then go to a command line on pre and "ipkg-opt install tcpdump" Jan 21 16:57:40 * Templarian goes off to lunch. Jan 21 16:58:06 Also inkscape is garbage don't even try to use it as a substitute for illustrator. Jan 21 16:58:53 Adobe is just so proud of their products. They are like Mac.. Too dang expensive. Jan 21 16:59:11 I miss my college discounts :/ Jan 21 16:59:24 get $1000 worth of software for $200 Jan 21 16:59:26 Of course, if I can get a MBP with a quad core for under 2G, I would buy it. Jan 21 16:59:39 yea I might have to start with something free like gimp until I can make something that's even semi-decent, or just not terrible Jan 21 16:59:51 the problem with GIMP is Jan 21 17:00:02 you can't take much of anything you learn in GIMP and apply it to, say, photoshop Jan 21 17:00:21 not even general concepts? Jan 21 17:00:48 the UI is almost entirely different Jan 21 17:01:22 and photoshop is a lot more powerful, especially later versions with non-destructive effects and such Jan 21 17:02:08 the one thing that works for both though is layering. use layers, layers, layers. and when in doubt, more layers. Jan 21 17:02:29 destinal-wirc: thanks. I already had ipkg-opt installed (from many months ago), but it had been so long since I used it I couldn't remember what the optware ipkg command was. I was going to look it up, but you saved me 1-3 minutes of checking out the webos-internals wiki. Jan 21 17:02:50 :) Jan 21 17:03:49 I wasn't going to ask here because of A) shame -and- B) I had a pretty good idea of where to find the information I needed Jan 21 17:04:19 just tcpdump'd ppp0. Jan 21 17:04:52 mobile linux ftw Jan 21 17:06:16 hi Jan 21 17:06:38 destinal how is terminal coming along Jan 21 17:07:45 destinal-wirc: you have fans Jan 21 17:08:24 only when things are broken :) Jan 21 17:09:21 ^*&^$!^%@%%!ing terminal app!!!! Jan 21 17:09:33 ok, on from desktop Jan 21 17:09:35 hehe Jan 21 17:09:54 * tlp wonders if 'bip' works with wIRC yet. Jan 21 17:09:56 most opensource developers are underappreciated. comes with the job Jan 21 17:09:57 braxton: the problem is stupid threawding Jan 21 17:10:06 s/eaw/ea/ Jan 21 17:10:07 destinal meant: braxton: the problem is stupid threading Jan 21 17:10:07 that lovely terminal app that has all of the "you should be glad this works at all" disclaimers just crashed luna upon close. Surprise! Jan 21 17:11:13 threading is cool Jan 21 17:11:31 We do tricks with multiple threads and they started crashing things in 1.3.5. I've identified where in the main thread they do that but debugging across threads can be frustrating (for me anyway, maybe some here are awesome at it) Jan 21 17:12:10 anyone who's awesome with it, please help! :) Jan 21 17:13:05 destinal: I am far from awesome at anything, but I can put an eye on it if you direct to me some code Jan 21 17:13:25 egaudet_work: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=plugins/termplugin.git Jan 21 17:13:41 egaudet_work: let me point you at the lines that I'm referring to, sec Jan 21 17:14:15 By some means i doctored back to 1.3.1 is it safe to do OTA to 1.3.5.1 or should i doctor there???? Jan 21 17:15:06 egaudet_work: http://webos.pastebin.com/m1ffa0152 Jan 21 17:17:43 egaudet_work: so this part is mrvc's code originally. actually I'm not sure about the details of Spawn_Kill, Spawn_Check, Spawn_Delete Jan 21 17:18:25 but this is in the main termplugin.cpp Jan 21 17:18:50 JMyaDaGod: perfect chance to test AUPT! Jan 21 17:19:56 ill be a guiny when i return from ihop u gonna be around all day? Jan 21 17:20:37 JMyaDaGod: off and on Jan 21 17:20:52 destinal: what is the presenting problem? Jan 21 17:21:29 ok bbl Jan 21 17:22:08 egaudet_work: the second time you close terminal it segfaults the luna process (of which it is a part) in Object_Deallocate Jan 21 17:22:57 in the emulator I've occasionally had it take three or four times to crash, but it's almost always the second one Jan 21 17:27:11 destinal: yo Jan 21 17:27:13 and actually the spawn stuff seems to be calling fork() so it seem's were using multiple processes as well as multiple threads Jan 21 17:27:23 PuffTheMagic_: hey Jan 21 17:27:28 * spotter looks in Jan 21 17:28:27 destinal: in Terminus I know that backswipe is registering as a keyboard event but I cant seem to send the proper text to the terminal for the escape to register properly Jan 21 17:28:37 what should I be sending? Jan 21 17:29:31 PuffTheMagic_: ascii 27 (decimal) is the code you want to transmit Jan 21 17:29:45 yeah i was doing that...or so i thought Jan 21 17:29:53 hmm Jan 21 17:30:16 destinal: in the terminus repo there is src/handlers.c Jan 21 17:30:34 that is where most of the improvement needs to happen right now if you feel like playing Jan 21 17:30:46 destinal: i also need to get that code from stty Jan 21 17:31:11 PuffTheMagic_: once terminal is fixed I'll check it out, don't want to abandon it Jan 21 17:32:28 between Zuchmir2 and mrvc either one knows more about it than I do, but I'm the one who's around, so I must try Jan 21 17:35:39 PuffTheMagic_: I know you think we should jump ship from terminal to get terminus going but I'd rather have two options that both actually work :) Jan 21 17:36:33 I'll try to help debug it tonight Jan 21 17:39:05 PuffTheMagic_: just so I didn't misinterpret your statement, does the back gesture correctly register as 'esc' and function as expected in terminus? Jan 21 17:42:36 good morning internets! Jan 21 17:43:09 * dug1 yawns, glares Jan 21 17:43:36 ^_^ Jan 21 17:45:55 got morning mousey. Jan 21 17:47:03 * Rick_work fever, chilling, headache, joint pain, no sleep, sinus pain, depression, etc. happy happy good morning to you. Jan 21 17:47:10 Mousey: hello joe Jan 21 17:47:27 * Mousey waves, and glees at all the warm greetz Jan 21 17:47:29 Rick_work: how did you know how my morning went? Jan 21 17:47:34 fevers are the worst, when u feel like sawing off your body parts at your joints would bring relief Jan 21 17:48:01 Rick_work: sans depression, that's just silly. webob-internals loves you <.< Jan 21 17:48:09 shiver / sweat / loop Jan 21 17:49:03 just want to go back to bed. Jan 21 17:49:26 webob? Jan 21 17:49:36 webos := Jan 21 17:49:43 oooooh!!!! Jan 21 17:49:47 ..whats that? Jan 21 17:49:51 * Mousey ducks! Jan 21 17:53:56 i love how the pre touchscreen picks up my thumb gestures even with a thick bandaid on Jan 21 17:54:04 my lappy touchpad dont work like that Jan 21 17:59:14 yah, i can just barely use it with gloves on Jan 21 17:59:30 bandaids are far more conductive than cotton Jan 21 18:01:00 is it possible to submit bug reports to Palm? Jan 21 18:01:08 sure isn't obvious if so. Jan 21 18:04:44 tlp: only at the dev forum Jan 21 18:05:28 I wish they had a bug tracker or something... frustrating. Jan 21 18:05:57 morning all! Jan 21 18:06:14 anyone check out the pre plus handson from precentral.net Jan 21 18:06:51 I did Jan 21 18:07:08 I don't find it totally accurate Jan 21 18:07:29 what dont you find accuratE? Jan 21 18:07:55 the whole 50 cards thing vs 13 cards Jan 21 18:08:31 lol yea, honestly a little overkill Jan 21 18:08:39 who launches 50 things at once Jan 21 18:08:49 * loot_ raises his hand Jan 21 18:08:55 lol i use my bb tour and it bogs down after like 5 Jan 21 18:08:58 lol nice loot Jan 21 18:09:08 the Pre isn't as fresh as the Plus is, and probably has a lot more modification. I'd like to see a freshly doctored Pre and freshly doctored Pre Plus battle it out Jan 21 18:09:26 oh the battle will begin on the 25th for sure Jan 21 18:09:32 im getting mine :) Jan 21 18:10:06 I'll pass, also just because it can open 50 apps it doesn't really say much about OS' overall performance Jan 21 18:10:27 what is unbelieavable about 50 vs. 13 apps? Jan 21 18:10:35 err 16 Jan 21 18:10:36 webos transitions and animations are still choppy Jan 21 18:10:56 no matter how much memory is on there Jan 21 18:11:15 those are all os tweaks that can be fixed by palm Jan 21 18:11:32 ill give many kudos to palm since the launch of there web os devices Jan 21 18:11:55 how many patches have they had since launch? Jan 21 18:12:29 remember the Pre Plus has 256M of extra RAM dedicated completely to extra cards Jan 21 18:12:57 the Pre has what? like less than 100MB dedicated to cards? Jan 21 18:13:39 egaudet: my point is that if you already have a Pre, a Plus isn't a completely different experience, it's same thing with some breathing room for more cards Jan 21 18:14:03 and the word Plus Jan 21 18:14:13 which is awesome Jan 21 18:14:17 lol Jan 21 18:14:36 no flite or espeak yet? Jan 21 18:14:39 im just really excited to be on VZW's giant 3g network Jan 21 18:14:59 the only thing that really draws me to the Plus is the lack of center button Jan 21 18:15:45 just out of curiosity is the media sync playing nice with the latest iteration of iTunes? Jan 21 18:16:42 farms: sprints network is much faster in my area, just saying things aren't the same everywhere. and much cheaper too Jan 21 18:17:18 i don't think I could ever understand the rationale for switching from sprint to verizon for the pre plus, unless you're so wealthy that the size of your phone bill doesn't matter to you Jan 21 18:17:20 i dont knock the other carriers ive just had the best luck with vzw Jan 21 18:17:47 because that's a ridiculously large price tag to pay for 256MB of RAM Jan 21 18:18:07 and vzw has revamped their pricing yet again so i think that they are catching on with the price plans Jan 21 18:18:12 not even close Jan 21 18:18:38 talk to me when you can get all the minutes and unlimited data you want for $70 Jan 21 18:18:52 and not pay an extra $10/mo for navigation Jan 21 18:19:31 that vzw price drop was for the suckers who didn't realize just how badly they were getting screwed before Jan 21 18:19:40 im a firm believer you pay for what you get, VZW has the most dependable network in my opinion Jan 21 18:19:48 Sprint is pretty solid in NYC, which my core area so I'm happy on Sprint Jan 21 18:20:08 the worst part is that even in the few places where vzw has better coverage than sprint, you can roam on vzw's network for free Jan 21 18:20:11 VZW has some big issues like AT&T does with saturation and calls being dropped, don't kid yourself Jan 21 18:20:23 um Jan 21 18:20:32 and people continually fail to appreciate just how good sprint's coverage is Jan 21 18:20:32 i just use sprint's simply everything Jan 21 18:20:36 when sprint isnt available Jan 21 18:20:42 i roam on verizon towers for free anyways Jan 21 18:20:46 so no point switching to verizon Jan 21 18:21:00 and Jan 21 18:21:05 sprints coverage is pretty damn good Jan 21 18:21:11 being the #1 and #2 carriers has its disadvantages in terms of profitability, having to scale your marketing to keep competitive edge over your direct competition, etc Jan 21 18:21:22 only been to one tiny rural area that didnt have coverage so far Jan 21 18:21:30 This allows sprint to obviously not be the best carrier in terms of quantity but focus on keeping a reliable network up at lower costs Jan 21 18:21:32 im not saying for anyone to switch to vzw, not knocking sprint either just happy that the pre will be coming to VZW :) Jan 21 18:21:51 nod Jan 21 18:21:56 I'm really happy they doubled the RAM in the pre Jan 21 18:22:02 I can't wait till that revision makes its way down to sprint Jan 21 18:22:03 vzw = superior service and support, sprint = superior pricing and pretty good service and pretty crappy support Jan 21 18:22:24 if you can manage to get yourself on a sprint business account (I did) Jan 21 18:22:26 support rocks there Jan 21 18:22:35 i want the next pre to have dual core cpu's and a much faster GPU like the iphone 4.0 Jan 21 18:22:49 ram is a given when upgrading models Jan 21 18:23:18 psy: sprint business plans dont require your social security # either Jan 21 18:23:35 4.0 is OS version not the phone itself Jan 21 18:23:37 i have sprint, my wife has vzw Jan 21 18:23:41 the exciting thing about the expansion with more carriers is that palm is tapping a higher user base and if it spins off and sells like hotcakes we can see more apps, better devices, so on so forth Jan 21 18:24:02 ok excuse me Jan 21 18:24:12 iphone 4g with 4.0 firmware Jan 21 18:24:13 yeah no question, we're happy to see palm get on vzw and at&t to expand the userbase Jan 21 18:24:28 totally Jan 21 18:24:32 but anyone who thinks they're getting a good deal by switching to verizon is nuts Jan 21 18:24:38 can't wait to get my wife the Plus Jan 21 18:24:59 she's got some lame samsung "smartphone" Jan 21 18:25:05 not the omnia! Jan 21 18:25:16 I don't think Palm is "switching" to Verizon Jan 21 18:25:29 Kyusaku: i mean users who want to switch from sprint to vzw Jan 21 18:25:45 oh, those guys are idiots, for the most part Jan 21 18:26:00 unless your Sprint coverage REAALLY sux Jan 21 18:26:05 if you happy with your current carrier why switch Jan 21 18:26:17 both devices have the pre now ;p Jan 21 18:26:25 both **carriers Jan 21 18:26:35 or you value device/gadget lust over carrier loyalty :) Jan 21 18:26:57 ryan: which is every iPhone user Jan 21 18:27:00 hahah Jan 21 18:27:05 i was just gonna say that Jan 21 18:27:07 this article angers me Jan 21 18:27:10 http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2356603,00.asp Jan 21 18:27:16 Why Open Source Phones Still Fail Jan 21 18:27:21 makes no mention of palm or webos Jan 21 18:27:33 ragging on maemo? Jan 21 18:27:41 and the guys rant of an article is entirely opinion yet he flaunts it as fact Jan 21 18:27:49 no ragging on maemo allowed Jan 21 18:27:51 * Mousey waves fist Jan 21 18:28:01 * ryan_gahl rags on maemo Jan 21 18:28:14 :p Jan 21 18:28:41 I read the first paragraph so far Jan 21 18:28:53 and the writer is uhh ignorant Jan 21 18:29:06 waste of time Jan 21 18:29:14 yeah, that guy is a moran Jan 21 18:29:23 i will NOT be following him on twitter lol Jan 21 18:29:41 Not to mention opensource is what created OSX ;) Jan 21 18:29:55 and then on twitter he said that "droid and pre plus don't actually compete" Jan 21 18:29:57 bsd yessir Jan 21 18:29:58 So how is opensource phones a failure if OSX is a product of the opensource community? :) Jan 21 18:30:23 "Drink Coffee... Do Stupid Things Faster!" Jan 21 18:30:32 lol Jan 21 18:30:58 actually Jan 21 18:31:04 everyone is very misguided in reference to OSX Jan 21 18:31:11 OS X IS NOT FREEBSD Jan 21 18:31:17 IT WAS NOT BRANCHED FROM BSD Jan 21 18:31:25 coffee has to be the best thing ever invented by Darwin Jan 21 18:31:29 IT USES VERY VERY LIMITED AMOUNTS OF ANY ACTUAL BSD CODE Jan 21 18:31:35 the kernel is a similar design Jan 21 18:31:41 a mach microkernel Jan 21 18:31:43 ryan_gahl: Aye. It must. Jan 21 18:31:49 so just outta curiousity since this is a webos internals room what kind of battery life should i expect from my soon to be pre Jan 21 18:32:04 YMMV Jan 21 18:32:05 bad :) Jan 21 18:32:06 was coffee really invented? Or is it more of a discovery Jan 21 18:32:12 caps is serious business Jan 21 18:32:19 SERIOUS BUSINESS Jan 21 18:32:19 * egaudet_work needs more coffee Jan 21 18:32:31 egaudet_work: It was an invention. The coffee bean was a discovery. Jan 21 18:32:38 sometimes you have to yell to get your point across Jan 21 18:32:45 egaudet_work: Darwin invented life, so therefore coffee Jan 21 18:32:45 and even then... Jan 21 18:32:49 WHAT?? Jan 21 18:32:52 farms: Some days good.. some bad.. Depends on way too many factors. Jan 21 18:32:55 * Mousey is wearing headphones Jan 21 18:33:05 farms: If you are a HEAVY user, get some spare chargers. Jan 21 18:33:14 farms: If you are an average user.. you should make it a day on a charge. Jan 21 18:33:17 farms: depends on usage and how good your Sprint coverage is Jan 21 18:33:24 farms: just get 1 extra extended battery and you'll be fine Jan 21 18:33:32 Kyusaku: that doesnt play as big of a roll as it use to Jan 21 18:33:36 or get a touchstone for your desk Jan 21 18:33:38 with the latest webos patch level Jan 21 18:33:51 they finally mitigated the radio signal searching Jan 21 18:33:53 egaudet_work: you had lunch yet? Jan 21 18:34:01 in 1.4? Jan 21 18:34:04 so in low coverage areas your battery doesnt just sit there and drain struggling to find signal Jan 21 18:34:06 personally, i just don't mind plugging mine into the USB port on the lappy, cuz i'm constantly developing anyway Jan 21 18:34:07 no Jan 21 18:34:08 in 1.3.5.1 i think it is Jan 21 18:34:13 i'm skipping lunch today Jan 21 18:34:14 Glen Bell, Jr. Died.. So I think I am going to geet me some Taco Bell today to pay respects. Jan 21 18:34:18 lol ill be on vzw and the coverage is great where im at, ill be syncing a couple gmails, facebook, and both im accounts Jan 21 18:34:20 meeting in 30 mins Jan 21 18:34:36 well you say "patch level" and I know that 1.4.0 is in testing Jan 21 18:34:41 so I assumed Jan 21 18:34:42 also, my battery life improved significantly when I turned off exchange push Jan 21 18:34:56 'ello everyone :) Jan 21 18:35:00 no exchange here Jan 21 18:35:01 dtzWill: thank you for vba!!!!! Jan 21 18:35:11 Kyusaku: no.. "a new version of webOS is in testing" Jan 21 18:35:12 does anyone know anything about what is responsible for the cursor ripple effect on the pre? Jan 21 18:35:13 morning will Jan 21 18:35:14 (btw) Jan 21 18:35:22 ryan_gahl: haha no problem at all. glad you enjoy it Jan 21 18:35:23 with 1.3.5 IMAP Push email barely works for me Jan 21 18:35:39 i seem to recall some discussion a while back about the cursor, but maybe i made that up Jan 21 18:35:58 Seriously @Kyusaku Jan 21 18:36:36 I find my Tweed notifications much more reliable than my Email ones, that's kinda sad Jan 21 18:36:53 reliable? Jan 21 18:37:02 lol i hope thats not the case with me Jan 21 18:37:17 my phone always notifies me of email no problem... no reliability issues there Jan 21 18:37:44 ~seen tharris Jan 21 18:37:48 tharris was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 147d 22h 29m 23s ago, saying: 'wonder who will ask the security questions =p'. Jan 21 18:37:56 ~seen tlharris Jan 21 18:37:57 i haven't seen 'tlharris', destinal Jan 21 18:38:12 ~seen tharris_ Jan 21 18:38:13 i haven't seen 'tharris_', destinal Jan 21 18:38:18 :( Jan 21 18:39:12 loot_: every day I open Email app to see it pull 2-3 Emails I was never notified about Jan 21 18:39:24 from each account Jan 21 18:39:37 And I have about 4 Email accounts Jan 21 18:40:08 I'm thinking of trying to remove the accounts and re-add them Jan 21 18:40:12 dtzWill: LunaSysMgr does the ripple on touch. see, ShowReticle=true in /etc/palm/luna.conf Jan 21 18:40:26 destinal: you're amazing. ty Jan 21 18:40:33 yw Jan 21 18:40:48 destinal: not to ask for *everything* but do you know of any way presently to disable that temporarily? Jan 21 18:40:51 Kyusaku: never seen that before Jan 21 18:41:03 dtzWill: ShowReticle=false Jan 21 18:41:08 3 of the 4 email accounts sync'ing to my phone are google though Jan 21 18:41:14 * loot_ shrugs Jan 21 18:41:31 dtzWill: if palm updates the default luna.conf in a future release it won't really be permanent, but what is? Jan 21 18:41:37 destinal: sorry i meant for a program. i didn't know that luna would pick up on that file's changes. ty Jan 21 18:41:51 loot: 3 are Gmail, 1 is Gmail Domain Jan 21 18:41:57 dtzWill: oh! you mean for a program to request that luna change that setting? Jan 21 18:41:57 ya Jan 21 18:42:00 1 is gmail for me Jan 21 18:42:01 destinal: the issue is that 'reticle' or whatever takes a stupid amount of processing power to draw, and i wanted to disable it within my program Jan 21 18:42:02 2 are google apps Jan 21 18:42:10 4th one is on some random provider Jan 21 18:42:10 destinal: so tapping on the screen quickly kills performance for no good reason Jan 21 18:42:17 i think they're all IMAP'ing though Jan 21 18:42:21 destinal: making on screen controls unnecessarily difficult/bad Jan 21 18:42:27 check your account settings Jan 21 18:42:30 and see how often its polling Jan 21 18:42:31 I have a random provider but I set that as manual because i never use it Jan 21 18:42:43 they're set to as items arrive Jan 21 18:42:51 ahh ok Jan 21 18:42:53 i dont use that Jan 21 18:42:54 destinal: someone said nfs changes it at least which is a start, but i don't wanna buy it just to strace my way to some api haha Jan 21 18:42:56 i use every 5 minutes i think Jan 21 18:43:23 yah, that's not IMAP push, I'm talking about IMAP push. Jan 21 18:43:44 dtzWill: oh, NFSU does that? Jan 21 18:43:45 as items arrive = push Jan 21 18:44:02 dtzWill: checking xplane Jan 21 18:44:05 I think I'm gonna remove the accounts and re-add Jan 21 18:44:09 ive heard that it drains your battery Jan 21 18:44:12 so i avoided it Jan 21 18:44:18 push? Jan 21 18:44:20 plus 5 minutes is plenty for me Jan 21 18:44:21 ya Jan 21 18:44:25 alas xplane has reticle Jan 21 18:44:28 destinal: i haven't seen it, but someone said it does. sorry. glyder 2 doesn't Jan 21 18:44:28 loot_: only if you get a lot of emails a day Jan 21 18:44:33 destinal: thanks for checking though Jan 21 18:44:39 Kyusaku: i do... i get thousands of emails a day Jan 21 18:44:53 oh :( yea im not an email hound on my phone, at work is a different story Jan 21 18:45:19 well then yeah that would be a bit of a drain Jan 21 18:45:28 my boxes aren't that crazy Jan 21 18:45:47 2 boxes are private 2 are for companies i own Jan 21 18:45:53 so sometimes i get hammered with email Jan 21 18:46:46 i know the feeling Jan 21 18:47:13 has anyone added other universal search providers like craigslist and ebay? Jan 21 18:47:53 once flash is released Jan 21 18:48:07 something tells me there is going to be a porn explosion for webos/android Jan 21 18:48:07 ? Jan 21 18:48:17 hahahahaha Jan 21 18:48:20 farms: yes it's possible Jan 21 18:48:32 i guarantee you Jan 21 18:48:38 dedicated sites will appear Jan 21 18:48:38 farms: but there's no like tool to easily do it Jan 21 18:48:46 to stream porn content to webos/android phones Jan 21 18:49:01 farms: gotta manually edit code Jan 21 18:49:11 yea i was reading into it on the webos internals site Jan 21 18:49:26 i wanna do craigslist and ebay Jan 21 18:49:45 tried tinkering with the emulator but no dice, so ill just wait till i have the device to dig in Jan 21 18:50:13 what im worried about if a patch gets rolled out will it overwrite everything that i have one Jan 21 18:50:35 ys/no Jan 21 18:50:41 yes/no* Jan 21 18:50:48 :( Jan 21 18:50:49 dtzWill: I just strings'd pdl and napp libs again, nothing that looks like it Jan 21 18:50:49 depends what the update changes Jan 21 18:51:10 farms: I've heard rumors that 1.4 will bring Bing search, so yes Jan 21 18:51:33 god i hope not Jan 21 18:51:41 an app that gave you the ability to change universal search providers would be awesome! Jan 21 18:51:41 bing is the worst search engine ever Jan 21 18:51:49 i will promptly change that if they do it Jan 21 18:52:04 from what i saw youll be able to select between bing and google Jan 21 18:52:58 microsoft should stick to what they're good at... buying companies with competing software and trashing it... oh and being greedy manipulative bastards Jan 21 18:53:11 would be nice to have an app to add remove searches Jan 21 18:53:35 maybe one day Palm will add an interface to do it within the OS itself Jan 21 18:53:40 destinal: yeah i can't find any suspect symbols either Jan 21 18:53:57 like how browsers have that whole search provider thing Jan 21 18:58:39 well its been great chatting with you all, ive gtg see you all later Jan 21 19:02:38 hello Jan 21 19:13:44 dtzWill: I think the 'temp ripple off' is a still sekrat pdl api, as changing luna.conf requires restarting luna, iirc Jan 21 19:17:06 Note to self: Read patch has compiled before installing. Jan 21 19:17:13 http://blog.jolexa.net/2010/01/18/gentoo-prefix-arm-hardware/ Jan 21 19:18:22 if that works well Jan 21 19:18:34 i might try putting a gentoo chroot'd ARM userland on my pre Jan 21 19:19:06 the article references hardware thats running a similar arm cortex a8 so the repos should be as is for usage Jan 21 19:22:00 loot_: why not use crossdev? building on-device is sllllloooooowwwwwwpoke Jan 21 19:22:13 + existing debian chroot supports optware repos etc Jan 21 19:22:53 i dont plan on building on the device Jan 21 19:23:09 the repo i believe is for package builds Jan 21 19:23:31 oh I see... hmmm Jan 21 19:23:48 you mean in addition to optware, that's interesting Jan 21 19:23:50 it will probably be easier to maintain programs with complex dependencies entirely outside of webos Jan 21 19:23:55 yea exactly Jan 21 19:24:01 like Jan 21 19:24:03 metasploit Jan 21 19:24:09 have you tried getting that to work on webos? Jan 21 19:24:15 its very particular about ruby and how its compiled Jan 21 19:24:17 I'd be curious about compatibility, but might be worth a shot. I'm pretty familiar with gentoo Jan 21 19:24:24 and has some other not so webos friendly dependencies Jan 21 19:24:39 i dont see there being much of a compat issue Jan 21 19:24:40 loot_: much of that works in debian chroot... Jan 21 19:24:45 its an entirely seperate userland Jan 21 19:24:50 but another option is always nice Jan 21 19:24:52 ill just chroot a bash shell to it Jan 21 19:25:07 plus Jan 21 19:25:14 if i have time Jan 21 19:25:15 yes I understand how jailed userlands work :) I have 2 on my pre now... Jan 21 19:25:33 i might mess with some gcc flags like stack protector and -fPIC Jan 21 19:25:40 build a hardened userland to sandbox things on my phone with Jan 21 19:25:50 coupled with my custom built and patched grsec kernel Jan 21 19:25:51 :> Jan 21 19:26:08 loot_: please do, and put the docs on the wiki under Gentoo :) Jan 21 19:26:14 docs / howtos Jan 21 19:26:21 i started a doc for the wiki already for rwhitby Jan 21 19:26:25 for the grsecurity kernel Jan 21 19:26:33 never ended up finishing it and posting though Jan 21 19:26:34 :( Jan 21 19:27:17 surprisingly grsec plays fairly well with webos Jan 21 19:27:30 there are some things that need to be tweaked though for everything to properly function Jan 21 19:27:33 using paxctl Jan 21 19:27:44 but other than that it works great... no noticable performance hit Jan 21 19:27:54 Hungry-Man entrees FTW Jan 21 19:29:06 although Jan 21 19:29:19 im fairly sure 99.9999% of webos users will not need a hardened kernel Jan 21 19:29:43 loot_: much of what we've already accomplished is due to the specialties of the involved developers, I believe much more is possible using the experience of newly interested developers :) Jan 21 19:30:11 eventually we could put together a whole webos hardening guide Jan 21 19:30:12 but Jan 21 19:30:19 theres still 1 fatal flaw IMO when it comes to webos Jan 21 19:30:21 * zsoc installs thermite in his phone, and a spark triggered by a special text message string Jan 21 19:30:24 the fact that everything runs as root! Jan 21 19:30:34 loot_: it will be fixed :) Jan 21 19:30:35 i understand why they did it Jan 21 19:30:36 ya Jan 21 19:30:42 just saying for the time being Jan 21 19:30:44 until thats fixed Jan 21 19:30:44 why why why? Jan 21 19:30:46 :> Jan 21 19:30:48 any other hardening is irrelevant Jan 21 19:31:19 en0x: faster deployment plain and simple Jan 21 19:31:29 i learn so much just hanging out here Jan 21 19:31:41 dbsooner: New patches by yours truly. Jan 21 19:36:30 dtzWill: hmm, maybe BrowserServer: BrowserServerBase::msgRemoveSelectionReticle(YapProxy*) Jan 21 19:37:39 is a clue Jan 21 19:38:28 dtzWill: I may buy NFSU (have been considering it since it looks fun) and dbus trace Jan 21 19:38:44 hey dudez... you guys think it'd be possible to make a patch that was able to scroll up or down on any launcher page, or any page in general, with the spacebar/ period buttons?? ... like the browser multi-mod patch does?? Jan 21 19:38:47 or is that just too much? Jan 21 19:39:08 preware definitely needs that feature for the list of everything Jan 21 19:39:13 that's request #3 i have Jan 21 19:39:17 :D Jan 21 19:39:38 zsoc: I don't know how they can fix it for the monolithic LunaSysMgr process Jan 21 19:40:04 if apps were other processes they could be run with other euid's but since it's all the same PID... Jan 21 19:40:47 now for type: game apps and services and such, yeah, that shouldn't be too hard to fix Jan 21 19:42:47 destinal: interesting. yeah i'm looking at BrowserAdapter.so presently to see how that's handling that. Jan 21 19:43:22 rwhitby: Thanks for adding the info to the navit post Jan 21 19:44:47 i heard something about an official on screen keyboard on webos 1.3.5, is that right? Jan 21 19:47:28 not that I've heard of Jan 21 19:47:58 oh, i only heard it once in the webos irc... just checking Jan 21 19:48:50 I know there's a catalog app with a virt kbd and copies to clipboard Jan 21 19:49:15 not so great Jan 21 19:51:16 whats about the two new trunks in git? n64pre and psx4pre Jan 21 19:52:00 What does /usr/bin/PalmClassic do? Jan 21 19:52:49 it's the binary files for the palm classic emulator Jan 21 19:53:43 +Rick_work: How is it related to Motion Apps' Classic app then? Jan 21 19:55:59 ostsued: what about them? Jan 21 19:57:09 mw: it's complicated but goes app to plugin to external binary Jan 21 19:58:02 Abyssul: aye. Jan 21 19:59:40 destinal-wirc1: OK - so PalmClassic actually provides the environment and then MotionApps provides the Mojo/Luna app that accesses the service to start/run PalmClassic. Jan 21 20:00:13 not a service Jan 21 20:00:44 there's a motionapps plugin (npapi) Jan 21 20:01:00 the classic mojo app embeds the plugin Jan 21 20:02:13 Does Palm provide developer docs on using PalmClassic? Jan 21 20:02:26 the plugin takes keyboard and touchscreen input and handles video output but it runs palmclassic binary and connects keyboard,ts,and video to that program Jan 21 20:02:52 mw: palmclassic isn't something you can develop Jan 21 20:03:05 it's a program for emulating palmos Jan 21 20:03:48 Is it possible to run the PalmClassic emulator w/o MotionApps? Jan 21 20:04:11 uh, motionapps made it Jan 21 20:04:56 I'm not understanding what you want to do Jan 21 20:05:39 I'm poking around on my Pre and I see /usr/bin/PalmClassic is already there, however, I've never installed MotionApps Classic. Jan 21 20:06:19 classic is a three tier program. mojo app and native plugin and native external binary Jan 21 20:06:30 hi all - my navit porting project is still not working properly, but i have a simple programm which show the problem Jan 21 20:06:36 all three parts are made by motionapps Jan 21 20:06:47 I'm considering porting POSE to the Pre. Jan 21 20:07:00 maybe some has time and knowledge to have a look at it - http://senfdax.de/~christof/glib-test.zip Jan 21 20:07:09 http://sourceforge.net/projects/pose/ Jan 21 20:07:13 palm distributes the plugin and binary for them as part of webos Jan 21 20:07:35 but it's still motionapps program Jan 21 20:07:46 why is there still no jabber client? =( Jan 21 20:07:52 nor syncml client? Jan 21 20:07:59 does the world just hate me? Jan 21 20:08:25 Any OSX users here? Jan 21 20:08:32 OK - then the mojo app is the part that MotionApps provides; seems like a pretty cozy relationship; I hope Palm is getting a commission on Classic sales :) Jan 21 20:08:35 i use OSX Jan 21 20:08:41 i can't say I legitmately use osx Jan 21 20:08:44 but yeah Jan 21 20:08:49 this isn't a 'no hackintosh' channel Jan 21 20:08:55 osx is sweet Jan 21 20:08:58 mw: motionapps provides all three parts Jan 21 20:09:02 Mousey: the world is not ready for you Jan 21 20:09:04 it's like *nix with boobs, a nice DDrack Jan 21 20:09:06 well, this is just surface level Jan 21 20:09:18 is than an irc client, that doesn't suck Jan 21 20:09:20 and isn't 40 dollars Jan 21 20:09:27 mw: but there's no official way for an ipk on catalog to install a plugin yet Jan 21 20:09:29 wirc Jan 21 20:09:31 doesn't suck Jan 21 20:09:36 isn't $40 Jan 21 20:09:42 for OSX O_o Jan 21 20:09:44 destinal: Gotcha. Thanks! Jan 21 20:09:47 oh Jan 21 20:09:50 you're screwed Jan 21 20:09:53 :P Jan 21 20:09:55 mw: so palm distributes plugin and binary on base system for them Jan 21 20:09:56 x-chat aqua isn't horrid Jan 21 20:09:59 but its not good Jan 21 20:10:00 maybe adium's irc plugin Jan 21 20:10:07 oh yea, xchat aqua Jan 21 20:10:15 yeah it's a special relationship I suppose you could say Jan 21 20:10:19 i just want some stuff with menu based on-performs Jan 21 20:10:29 i dont wanna have to try and remember how to write some stupid script Jan 21 20:10:35 to connect to a couple networks / channels on launch Jan 21 20:10:44 but, i use adium, so ill fiddle around with its irc client a bit Jan 21 20:11:34 mw: thing is,you could probably write your own mojo app to wrap their plugin Jan 21 20:11:52 i m not recommending it but it's interesting Jan 21 20:12:03 Abyssul: How about "New Email Vibrate to ..." Jan 21 20:12:50 FuManChuu: only worthwhile IRC client on Mac is Linkinus. No, it's not free. Jan 21 20:13:09 there's also Colloquy, which is free, but horrid to use Jan 21 20:13:19 thought Colloq was charge Jan 21 20:13:20 That's what I was thinking as it would be easier to leverage what's there instead of building a whole new stack. PalmOS ROMs present another difficulty for folks setting up POSE. Jan 21 20:13:49 Mac, the OS that keeps on draining your wallet. Jan 21 20:14:10 mw: If you write a mojo app to run classic I bet motionapps will try to lock it down Jan 21 20:14:16 no colloquy is free at least on OS X. dunno about its iphone app Jan 21 20:14:40 destinal: I'll be sure to take a backup first then :) Jan 21 20:14:41 i'm sorry Jan 21 20:14:43 if there is terminal Jan 21 20:14:45 do we have any resident graphic artists? :) hoping for someone to help me create some onscreen controls for vba Jan 21 20:14:46 there is bitchx Jan 21 20:14:50 if there is bitchx you're set Jan 21 20:14:58 irssi is a distant second Jan 21 20:14:58 but the rom is there Jan 21 20:14:59 on base phone Jan 21 20:15:12 dtzWill: "steal" quake's :p Jan 21 20:15:59 VincentLaw: i was hoping for something that looked like a gba more or less Jan 21 20:16:17 VincentLaw: and quake's was designed to look a little 'rough'--something more appropriate for the game itself Jan 21 20:16:25 I could probably give it a try tonight Jan 21 20:16:57 VincentLaw: and not sure that a virtual joystick, cool as it might be, is appropriate for a gameboy emulator. don't know that it isn't but i'd rather start straightforward and try special things later Jan 21 20:16:57 I assume this is for the sideways orientation? :p Jan 21 20:17:05 VincentLaw: no actually it's not for landscape. Jan 21 20:17:05 mw: I'd like to try running garnet Jan 21 20:17:14 oh Jan 21 20:17:19 VincentLaw: although if you have a good idea how that'd go i would listen Jan 21 20:17:21 then it'd be kinda hard to make it look GBA-like :p Jan 21 20:17:24 from maemo Jan 21 20:17:44 but I'll do both then Jan 21 20:17:54 starting with portrait Jan 21 20:17:58 lawl Jan 21 20:18:06 silly will and his router Jan 21 20:18:07 destinal: :) I have one of those too. The phone part of the Pre makes it my preferred carry-around device though. Jan 21 20:18:27 i'm kind of pissed Jan 21 20:18:33 you guys remember how there were pagers back in the day Jan 21 20:18:44 where is my 'all in one device' that does everything EXCEPT voice communications Jan 21 20:18:45 destinal: http://www.maemoapps.com/2008/05/29/garnet-vm-beta-2-released/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+featuredmaemoapps+(Featured+Maemo+Apps) Jan 21 20:18:47 well we may be able to run garnet on pre Jan 21 20:18:58 i thhought there was a classic emulator already Jan 21 20:19:15 VincentLaw: portrait i was hoping we could use the same one for gb/gba and just the extra buttons do nothing. simpler code, simpler interface. but that means that the scaled gb games take more space Jan 21 20:19:18 yah but garnet is better I thinkk Jan 21 20:19:22 VincentLaw: oh damn i got d/c'd GRRR Jan 21 20:19:24 ShadeS: Other than MotionApps' $30 one? Jan 21 20:19:38 VincentLaw: I believe 'sideways' and 'landscape' are synonymous in this context Jan 21 20:19:41 VincentLaw: talk to me about dimensions if you do take a crack please Jan 21 20:19:48 yeah Jan 21 20:19:53 thepiratebay's free one ;p Jan 21 20:20:09 dtzWill: yes you did :p Jan 21 20:20:12 VincentLaw: the reason i wasn't using landscape is that making it an alpha /overlay/ is presently too expensive Jan 21 20:20:13 dtzWill: I can do the graphics in a bout 2 hours from now Jan 21 20:20:34 ShadeS: Free as in "no longer inside the law"? :-P Jan 21 20:20:54 whatever Jan 21 20:20:58 okay so you don't want a full 320x480 image Jan 21 20:20:59 you're telling me you don't ever break the law? Jan 21 20:21:05 VincentLaw: so if you want/can design something nice we can scale gb/gba _less_ and then have controls on each side. that'd be great although a tinyh bit of work Jan 21 20:21:08 VincentLaw: no Jan 21 20:21:10 zsoc: okay that sounds great Jan 21 20:21:15 Here's a better link for the GarnetVM from Access: http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/index.html Jan 21 20:21:19 I bet you're one of those mfers who turns on red before stopping his vechile completley ;p Jan 21 20:21:33 don't mean to make a graphics race, I just want something that isn't the really lame barebones circle and rectangles i would probably do :P Jan 21 20:21:50 it's not like you can't pay them at any time later should you feel guilty and or feel the software is worth the price Jan 21 20:21:51 hey if zsoc wants to tackle it that's fine :p Jan 21 20:21:57 dtzWill: just to confirm, this is for portrait or landscape Jan 21 20:22:07 zsoc: do you understand all i was getting at with the dimensions? basically _ideally_ these would work well for both, although if you think that's graphically ugly or bad I can be convinced otherwise Jan 21 20:22:11 zsoc: both==gb/gba Jan 21 20:22:11 VincentLaw: if you can do yours now, go for it :) and I'll check them out Jan 21 20:22:18 zsoc: oh well either. Jan 21 20:22:31 dtzWill: I think I understand the concept Jan 21 20:22:35 zsoc: I was doing portrait b/c that was more straightforward with current implementation? but if you think you can do both I can write both in Jan 21 20:23:28 zsoc: yeah the problem is that gb/gba screens have diff aspect ratios so scaled they take up slightly different sizes. additionally in landscape we'll have to do something... else than what we currently do b/c gba fits perfectly so it fully scaled leaves *no* room for controls Jan 21 20:23:30 dtzWill: does landscape work, resource wise? Jan 21 20:23:47 I won't be doing mine until I finish bug-checking this PHP code, but that won't be too long (less than an hour I hope >.>) Jan 21 20:23:49 zsoc: landscape works, but not as an overlay. so we'd scale the image less and have controls on the end. Jan 21 20:23:52 dtzWill: well one we can alpha? Jan 21 20:23:58 zsoc: alpha is currently out Jan 21 20:24:00 oic Jan 21 20:24:05 so uh Jan 21 20:24:12 that nexus fone has a 5mp camera and a 1ghz processor? Jan 21 20:24:12 dtzWill: so these controls should NOT have alpha layers? Jan 21 20:24:20 ShadeS: and? Jan 21 20:24:23 it wasn't long ago since my desktop had a processor that fast... Jan 21 20:24:32 zsoc: we're tight on execution speed and I can't get opengl to not _crawl_ when i enable alpha processing Jan 21 20:24:39 ShadeS: mhz aren't everything Jan 21 20:24:46 heh Jan 21 20:24:49 no, but it's like, a good chun Jan 21 20:24:50 dtzWill: ok, did we fix the ripple issue? Jan 21 20:24:51 k Jan 21 20:25:05 file listings wouldnt be any different using novaterm vs ssh/sudo root right? Jan 21 20:25:24 zsoc: yes no alpha layers. is that too limiting? it's not the best but i think with some design we could make it stellar anyway. and a.. justification argument can be made that this way we don't obscure the screen ;) Jan 21 20:25:28 zsoc: we did not. Jan 21 20:25:29 ShadeS: only in certain context. psx had a 33mhz chip and it's still difficult to emulate on 600-1000mhz processos Jan 21 20:25:53 zsoc: i disabled rippling and tapping on the screen still slows execution, but not as much. so I'm not sure what that's about but we'll just have to deal with it afaict Jan 21 20:25:58 i thought playstation had a much faster processor Jan 21 20:26:03 dtzWill: I'll take a shot. been awhile since I flexed any graphical muscles. size suggestions? Jan 21 20:26:08 zsoc: althogh at some point i'll make for sure that it's not something silly my thing is doing Jan 21 20:26:39 ok guys... please let me know what you think of this: http://imgur.com/cPI5b.png (imgur downgraded the quality a bit, but you get the gist) Jan 21 20:27:23 destinal: webOS 1.3.5.1 uses kernel 2.6.24 and X Windows (Xomap). Has anyone ported X to webOS yet? Jan 21 20:27:43 zsoc: sure. the portrait one would go below the image i was thinking (again since you're the graphical guy feel free to disagree with my vision, I'm flexible for sure, but for now...) the scaled gba takes 320x240, the gb/gtbc takes 320x288 so that leaves 320x192 for the portrait controls Jan 21 20:27:44 mw: what do you mean it uses X? Jan 21 20:27:55 is there a simple reason why the PmConnectionManager wouldn't be in the /usr/bin folder? Jan 21 20:27:58 Maemo uses X for it's windowing system. Jan 21 20:28:37 mw: so, no, not yet, but I think a lot of SDL apps on maemo don't need a lot of X Jan 21 20:28:46 zsoc: the landscape I'm not entirely sure since we'll have to change how much we scale them by to accomidate. the gb/gbc are 160x144 unscaled, gba are 240x160 unscaled.. i guess we'll have to play with scaling on both to see what makes sense and leaves enough space for controls Jan 21 20:28:48 we may be able to implement some functions Jan 21 20:28:56 zsoc: the latter issue is why i first wasn't dealing with landscape Jan 21 20:29:00 oh FFS did i disconnect again Jan 21 20:29:23 FuManChuu: Because palm took it out of later builds Jan 21 20:29:54 ARGH this router. Jan 21 20:29:56 hrm, then how do people claim that ssh/script less tether still works on 1.3.5.1 Jan 21 20:29:57 * dtzWill goes to punt it out the window Jan 21 20:29:57 no you didn't disconnect until after you said that, will :p Jan 21 20:29:57 Lies! Jan 21 20:30:09 i don't think I have seen PmConnectionManager in a long time Jan 21 20:30:11 VincentLaw: okay ty Jan 21 20:30:22 VincentLaw: sorry just super frustrating when i keep losing messages in the middle of talking! Jan 21 20:30:25 :) Jan 21 20:30:28 lawl yeah Jan 21 20:30:46 btw I don't know if you were here when I did it, but I'm CoolMatty, name changed :p Jan 21 20:31:02 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/191082-tethered-pre-without-any-apps-ssh-scripts-8.html Jan 21 20:31:06 was just trying to follow that :> Jan 21 20:31:18 FuManChuu: Unless PmConnectionManager comes with some of the Carrier IPK's. Jan 21 20:31:20 VincentLaw: i might have been but didn't notice. good to know. Jan 21 20:31:30 VincentLaw: i know you were complaining you didn't like your nick or some such Jan 21 20:31:47 destinal: The apps call SDL, but it seems X is still in the pipe: http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-developers@maemo.org/msg14413.html Jan 21 20:32:01 mw: yes that's because of hildon I expect Jan 21 20:32:07 but PmConnectionManager is NOT in any of the webosdoctors Jan 21 20:32:07 I think we can implement a subset Jan 21 20:32:21 detsinal: I'm checking to see how Java under Luna is accessing /dev/video. Jan 21 20:32:25 or maybe its in a doctor, but not saved to the phone. I can't remember. Jan 21 20:32:31 mw: uh, it's not? Jan 21 20:32:41 hrm, either way, i don't have access to it, and thats a bummer O_o Jan 21 20:32:44 mw: all the java stuff is services, not UI Jan 21 20:33:09 doh! my bad. Jan 21 20:33:26 LunaSysMgr, the binary, accesses /dev/fb0 and maybe other stuff Jan 21 20:33:39 from what I remember pmconnectionmanager wasn't really an app at all, it just set up some ip tables or something Jan 21 20:33:58 testicles Jan 21 20:33:59 ah Jan 21 20:34:04 PmNetConfigManager Jan 21 20:34:08 s/icles// Jan 21 20:34:08 ryan_gahl meant: test Jan 21 20:34:10 apparently contains the same jazz Jan 21 20:34:57 VincentLaw: http://omploader.org/vM2JlbA/snes9x Jan 21 20:37:53 VincentLaw: still interested in testing? I'm sure the keymap is horrid Jan 21 20:38:45 sure Jan 21 20:38:56 any takers on giving me an opinion on the WebOS Internals skin for my calculator? (pretty please with gravy on top?) Jan 21 20:39:12 VincentLaw: snag that, throw a rom out there and ./snes9x whatever.rom Jan 21 20:39:20 okay, i was gonna ask if that's a binary or not :p Jan 21 20:39:32 help me revise my speed estimate, I'm thinking now that it's not 100% speed after all Jan 21 20:39:43 sure will Jan 21 20:40:11 destinal: !!! nice Jan 21 20:40:29 destinal: that in git somewhere? Jan 21 20:40:42 destinal: and 100%?? Jan 21 20:41:09 dtzWill: uh, not quite probably. it feels fast but mainly there's no sound and I'm starting to think maybe it's slightly under 100% speed. Jan 21 20:41:15 hard to tell though, it's close Jan 21 20:41:47 I'm going to test with mario kart first Jan 21 20:41:53 wonder why my ssh is SLOW today :/ Jan 21 20:41:57 VincentLaw: my test was with zelda, but that's me :) Jan 21 20:42:12 oh and I haven't touched the keymap, I couldn't tell you what does what Jan 21 20:42:18 * ryan_gahl resigns to trying again later Jan 21 20:42:19 I kind of muddled through Jan 21 20:42:19 ohjoy :D Jan 21 20:42:31 does it accept config files? Jan 21 20:42:47 meh I'll look into it here in a sec :p Jan 21 20:43:52 lol it's sideways :D Jan 21 20:43:55 dtzWill: I'll look at setting up a git repo here. I had been reconsidering my choice of snes9x and so never really pursued it until VincentLaw and others seemed interested Jan 21 20:44:08 VincentLaw: yeah, it needs a rotation for sure :) Jan 21 20:44:18 destinal: yeah, lots of interest! Jan 21 20:44:37 destinal: yeah i had no idea what snes would be best to port, glad you got one working though :) Jan 21 20:44:50 dtzWill: hmm.. I have a good idea for portrait controls.. we'll see I suppose Jan 21 20:45:08 zsoc: great. if you want to make solid portrait controls and we figure out landscape for a later release... that's very very fine by me. Jan 21 20:45:18 dtzWill: R and L can be above the game right? Jan 21 20:45:20 VincentLaw: what you're using is literally what came out of make the first time I got it to build Jan 21 20:45:21 lol what the heck? Jan 21 20:45:26 this control scheme is whack :D Jan 21 20:45:35 VincentLaw: so uh, it's not really ported Jan 21 20:45:38 :P Jan 21 20:45:43 JUI and G for movement Jan 21 20:45:44 that's fine Jan 21 20:45:56 I'll play with it, hopefully I can get it to take some .cfg Jan 21 20:46:10 VincentLaw: any guess on speed? Jan 21 20:46:12 % Jan 21 20:46:21 zsoc: err i guess Jan 21 20:46:25 zsoc: but that sounds .... bad? Jan 21 20:46:39 zsoc: oh you mean for access with your other fingers haha hmm Jan 21 20:46:47 zsoc: alright i'll knuckle down and add another texture for that :) Jan 21 20:46:56 lol there's no B button defined Jan 21 20:46:58 and this is not 100% Jan 21 20:47:04 all i can say is wow - can't wait to play some Kirby's Dreamland Minigolf :) Jan 21 20:47:05 it's doing high frameskip on mario kart Jan 21 20:47:08 zsoc: but just make sure to leave room for gbc scaled, w/e numbers i gave before :) Jan 21 20:47:19 VincentLaw: ah, ok. I didn't really have a fast game to play it with Jan 21 20:47:20 dtzWill: I don't know? are R and L used for action functions in some games? I think with a full frame I can make it look really hot Jan 21 20:47:31 well I should say, it's getting 100%, but frameskip is /very/ high, we're looking at 4+ frameskip right now Jan 21 20:47:53 thats not too bad considering how the gba is emulated on other platforms. Jan 21 20:48:02 namely psp/iphone. Jan 21 20:48:17 dtzWill: 320x192 on the bottom? or total? Jan 21 20:48:24 VincentLaw: how do you feel about frameskip? I've avoided it in vba b/c it seems like a dodgy solution to get a good fps, but it seems other people have differing opinions. you have any thoughts? Jan 21 20:48:36 dtzWill: er, I mean is it the same dimensions on top and bottom? Jan 21 20:48:40 it's a good idea only if frameskip stays at 2 or lower, dtzWill Jan 21 20:48:47 dtzWill: and do you prefer png or bmp? Jan 21 20:48:53 once it goes above 2 you start seeing real stutter issues Jan 21 20:49:00 zsoc: the gbc is 160x144 normally, so scaled it's 320x288. so ideally we'll have 320x288 of space *somewhere*. Jan 21 20:49:21 zsoc: i don't really care where that is, and am happy leaving that up to your design decisions Jan 21 20:49:45 dtzWill: well.. what about blitting below and above it? like on an actual gba... Jan 21 20:49:49 zsoc: i'd say png just b/c it has decent enough quality and significantly small filesize so no need to make them download more... although i suppose it probably doens't matter Jan 21 20:50:28 zsoc: i'm not sure what you're saying. I'm saying that the screen size scaled is 320x288 and i'd like to have that 'punched' out of w/e 320x480 image we end up using. Jan 21 20:50:42 zsoc: aka there's enough space for the screen! :) Jan 21 20:50:54 zsoc: so if that means part of the controls are above, part are below, that sounds fine. Jan 21 20:51:04 dtzWill: wait... I thought you said no alpha? Jan 21 20:51:36 separate images (sliceS) Jan 21 20:51:52 zsoc: fwiw even though we don't have alpha i can either a)split the image into above/bottom parts and render 3 textures: top, screen, bottom. OR use two textures, and the controls go below, then the screen on top. note that b/c the screen is a rect (two triangles) it takes no alpha to draw it that way Jan 21 20:52:10 zsoc: i didn't have a b) whoops, but i think that make sense, hopefully Jan 21 20:52:24 basically, slices :p Jan 21 20:53:10 zsoc: i'd probably do the first just so we don't have to waste time rendering what's below the screen (the way i'm doing it i don't think gl can optimize that out) Jan 21 20:53:22 VincentLaw: i don't know the term 'slices' but it aboslutely sounds like what i'm talking about :) Jan 21 20:54:25 it's a photoshop/design term Jan 21 20:54:46 site designs made from photoshop use slices to create pieces of a whole site image, for layout Jan 21 20:54:57 (bunch of rectangular images :P) Jan 21 20:55:10 VincentLaw: sounds good. Jan 21 20:55:34 zsoc: are we on board with all this? if there's an issue/you think we could make it better some other way speak up and maybe we can make it happen Jan 21 20:55:52 egaudet_work: ping Jan 21 20:56:08 destinal: I'm doing all sorts of configuration stuff, hopefully it does read the cfg :D Jan 21 20:56:10 dtzWill: nope sounds good Jan 21 20:56:14 zsoc: wonderful. Jan 21 20:56:41 dtzWill: I'm hoping I can make it look decent. at the very least I can make a good mock up for someone with real skill ;) Jan 21 20:56:47 VincentLaw: hope so also Jan 21 20:57:07 VincentLaw: it is that sdl 1.39 which is discussed so much on dingoo Jan 21 20:57:17 from looking through my current config there is some promising option Jan 21 20:57:24 *options Jan 21 20:57:44 zsoc: I have an original GBA and GBC if you need reference shots :p Jan 21 20:57:58 dtzWill: oh..er.. 1 last thing... the gba traditially was most popular in translucent ice blue or the indigo/purple... Jan 21 20:58:44 I liked both colors but some considered them hideous/feminine opposed to the later black/white models Jan 21 20:58:50 zsoc: sounds good, i'm sure you'll do significantly better than i would. barebones circles with two overlapping rectangles for d-pad :P Jan 21 20:58:59 luls Jan 21 20:59:38 what exactly is a ping dBsooner Jan 21 20:59:43 zsoc: i'm not particular. if you have a preference go for it. despite i'm sure everyone wanting it i don't particularly intend on making these super customizable (other than people editing the raw assets) and am happy wiht whatever you think is best Jan 21 20:59:57 egaudet: It's a request for acknowledgement Jan 21 21:00:03 egaudet_work: ^^ Jan 21 21:00:05 zsoc: i might suggest black just b/c that matches the pre? but i honestly am more than happy to give you creative control over this Jan 21 21:00:13 I acknowledge your request for acknowledgement, acknowledged Jan 21 21:00:26 egaudet_work: So Jason wants to change one of his patches from the "Misc" category to "Sounds and Alerts" Jan 21 21:00:50 egaudet_work: What do you think this will entail? Just change it? Jan 21 21:01:03 egaudet_work: Or should I "obsolete" the misc one Jan 21 21:02:31 this will be fun and tricky. I'll be hacking a gba as if it was an original gameboy lol Jan 21 21:03:37 oh WOW Jan 21 21:03:54 destinal: run ./snes9x -ns yourom.smc Jan 21 21:03:58 and watch the framerate fly Jan 21 21:04:01 oh, no skip? Jan 21 21:04:02 :) Jan 21 21:04:06 egaudet_work: Obselete the misc one it is. Because he actually said in the "changelog": "Redone. Much more reliable." Jan 21 21:04:08 no, no sound Jan 21 21:04:12 aha Jan 21 21:04:13 turns off sound emulation entirely Jan 21 21:04:15 so it's trying sound Jan 21 21:04:22 and just not outputting Jan 21 21:04:25 egaudet_work: so I expect he wants everyone to "update" to this new one. Jan 21 21:04:49 we're looking at near, if not full 0 frameskip 100% speed on mario world right now with -ns Jan 21 21:05:29 no Jan 21 21:05:30 stop Jan 21 21:06:08 wow Jan 21 21:07:24 * zsoc stops Jan 21 21:07:31 100% no frameskip on mario kart as well Jan 21 21:07:35 (with -ns) Jan 21 21:07:42 destinal this is already awesome :p Jan 21 21:08:00 VincentLaw: emulation without sound is not awesome Jan 21 21:08:03 now to really test this sucker out, trying one of the hardest to render games: super mario rpg Jan 21 21:08:20 zsoc: for a first build, it's promising :) Jan 21 21:08:22 zsoc: I will accept no sound if it means super mario rpg Jan 21 21:08:37 and what he said Jan 21 21:08:44 destinal-wirc: yes but didn't you already build this 2 weeks ago? Jan 21 21:08:49 and I haven't even tried the more sketchy stuff Jan 21 21:09:22 dBsooner: do we need to rethink our strategy of - Jan 21 21:09:54 <VincentLaw> ruh roh Jan 21 21:10:15 <destinal> zsoc: yes. I abandoned it because I don't know how to port OSS to alsa and then haven't had much time since. I think we still may go with another emulator instead but that doesn't mean that it's not cool Jan 21 21:10:15 <VincentLaw> it doesn't run super mario rpg :/ Jan 21 21:10:19 <destinal> :( Jan 21 21:10:29 <VincentLaw> I mean not at all. it's black :/ Jan 21 21:10:31 <destinal> (err to alsa or pulse) Jan 21 21:10:41 <destinal> or sdl-mixer Jan 21 21:11:44 <VincentLaw> I'm beginning to think anything with the special chips aren't working now, destinal Jan 21 21:11:52 <destinal> VincentLaw: superfx etc Jan 21 21:11:59 <VincentLaw> yes, superfx, SA-1 Jan 21 21:12:37 <VincentLaw> starfox (superfx) and smrpg (sa-1) don't run. it doesn't error out, it just doesn't run Jan 21 21:13:25 <destinal> VincentLaw: I think the one that's working on nokia 900 / maemo is probably better (based on pocketsnes, supposedly better framerates) Jan 21 21:13:43 <destinal> and spending a lot of time fixing the less performant one doesn't make much sense Jan 21 21:14:02 <VincentLaw> destinal: -dfr is your key command Jan 21 21:14:08 <VincentLaw> turns on framerate display Jan 21 21:14:28 <destinal> I'll put up a quick nonworking repository for now Jan 21 21:15:28 <egaudet_work> dBsooner: ping Jan 21 21:16:06 <dtzWill> destinal: you mean like starting with vba instead of gpsp? :P Jan 21 21:16:22 <braxton> destin Jan 21 21:16:28 <destinal> dtzWill: :) Jan 21 21:16:28 <braxton> you awesome man Jan 21 21:16:49 <destinal> braxton: hey Jan 21 21:17:05 <braxton> destinal has anyone ever told you you are the greatest human ever Jan 21 21:17:20 <braxton> well? Jan 21 21:17:24 <destinal> haha, I don't think so Jan 21 21:17:34 <destinal> :) Jan 21 21:17:55 <braxton> there is just one small thing holding up your award Jan 21 21:17:57 <dBsooner> egaudet_work: Can't a man do real work for once? Jan 21 21:18:03 <destinal> braxton: terminal bug fix? Jan 21 21:18:09 <braxton> TERMINAL Jan 21 21:18:16 <destinal> how did I know that was coming Jan 21 21:18:17 <braxton> yes :) Jan 21 21:18:18 <destinal> :) Jan 21 21:18:46 <braxton> because I've spent the last week bothering you about it as a full time job Jan 21 21:19:10 <braxton> destinal please help me help you help me Jan 21 21:19:17 <destinal> braxton: I have spent many hours beating my head against the metaphorical wall that is this bug. all so you can be happy. Jan 21 21:19:26 <braxton> nice Jan 21 21:19:48 <xorg> i have an Upstart /etc/event.d Q if someone can answer... Jan 21 21:19:50 <braxton> and? Jan 21 21:20:06 <rwhitby> morning Jan 21 21:20:12 <dBsooner> rwhitby: mornin captain Jan 21 21:20:23 <ryan_gahl> hi rwhitby Jan 21 21:20:25 <xorg> i want to trigger an event script if WiFi goes away... would that be "start on stopped PmWiFiService" ? Jan 21 21:21:46 <xorg> yo rod... Jan 21 21:22:13 <braxton> arod Jan 21 21:22:46 <ryan_gahl> rwhitby: can i get your opinion on this before we call it done? every1 else is busy groovin' on the snes9x stuff destinal's been doing :) - http://i.imgur.com/cPI5b.png Jan 21 21:23:25 <ryan_gahl> btw, dest, so wish i had the skills right now to help with that stuff Jan 21 21:23:26 <PuffTheMagic_> sup Jan 21 21:23:54 <PuffTheMagic_> ryan_gahl: you didnt change your nick yet ( thought I said the other day no nicks that contain ryan are allowed :D Jan 21 21:24:00 <ryan_gahl> LOL Jan 21 21:24:03 <dBsooner> Shut up Ryan Jan 21 21:24:14 <ryan_gahl> oh, i thought that was temporary Jan 21 21:24:30 <ryan_gahl> +dBsooner: ?? Jan 21 21:24:47 <dBsooner> Not you ryan_gahl. Jan 21 21:24:53 <PuffTheMagic_> ryan_gahl: i am the only Ryan allowed Jan 21 21:24:57 * dBsooner points at PuffTheMagic_ Jan 21 21:25:29 <braxton> attention destional is on notice Jan 21 21:25:33 <ryan_gahl> ohhhhhhhhhhh, man i was almost in tears there ;) Jan 21 21:26:35 <Kyusaku> PuffTheMagic: you check out the mobilehotspot package Jan 21 21:26:51 <PuffTheMagic_> Kyusaku: those links didnt work Jan 21 21:26:59 <Kyusaku> several of us got it to work using freetether's ip forwarding Jan 21 21:27:12 <not_ryan_gahl> +PuffTheMagic_: better? Jan 21 21:27:17 <Kyusaku> I put the ipks in a dropbox Jan 21 21:27:18 <Kyusaku> hold Jan 21 21:27:19 <PuffTheMagic_> no Jan 21 21:27:51 <Kyusaku> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1732784/com.palm.app.mobilehotspot_1.0.3_all.ipk Jan 21 21:28:09 <Kyusaku> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1732784/pmnetconfigmanager_1.0.0-58.1.ipk Jan 21 21:28:11 <dBsooner> speaking of which, When is the mighty PuffTheMagic_ going to finish freeTether to be a WiFi hotspot? Jan 21 21:28:18 <Kyusaku> do you want the daemon that comes with it? Jan 21 21:28:29 <dBsooner> Kyusaku: doesn't the pre already have pmnetconfigmanager? Jan 21 21:28:35 <dBsooner> /usr/bin/PmNetConfigManager Jan 21 21:28:45 <PuffTheMagic_> Kyusaku: yeah give me all the links i need Jan 21 21:28:58 <PuffTheMagic_> pmnetconfigmanager is a package now? Jan 21 21:29:21 <Kyusaku> yeah the mobilehotspot "updater" app Jan 21 21:29:26 <Kyusaku> comes with 3 ipks Jan 21 21:29:33 <Kyusaku> that it installs Jan 21 21:29:40 <JohnnyPaper> +PuffTheMagic_: ping Jan 21 21:29:41 <Kyusaku> those 2 and the daemon Jan 21 21:29:41 <PuffTheMagic_> so where is that 3rd one? Jan 21 21:29:44 <PuffTheMagic_> JohnnyPaper: pong Jan 21 21:29:51 <Kyusaku> hold up I gotta copy off my Pre Jan 21 21:29:58 <JohnnyPaper> :p Jan 21 21:30:15 <destinal> Kyusaku: please don't redistribute palm copyrighted files Jan 21 21:30:27 * dBsooner agrees with destinal. Jan 21 21:30:27 <Kyusaku> ooop Jan 21 21:30:31 <Kyusaku> my bad Jan 21 21:30:36 <Kyusaku> I'll take those off Jan 21 21:30:37 <dBsooner> Just "tell him where to find them on his own" Jan 21 21:30:48 <VincentLaw> or get it from palm yourself :p Jan 21 21:30:48 <Kyusaku> I did but he said it didn't work Jan 21 21:31:00 <Kyusaku> lemme try again Jan 21 21:31:05 <Kyusaku> I'm gonna wirc Jan 21 21:31:10 <destinal> the palm updater has an ipks directory Jan 21 21:31:12 <VincentLaw> should just write a script that downloads it from the app catalog and extracts the ipks for you lawl Jan 21 21:31:24 <destinal> you can install the updater but not run it Jan 21 21:31:30 <destinal> and then just snag the ipks Jan 21 21:32:11 <PuffTheMagic_> JohnnyPaper: what? Jan 21 21:32:32 <VincentLaw> I wonder why snes9x won't accept any cfg files :/ Jan 21 21:32:38 <VincentLaw> won't even let me point it to one Jan 21 21:32:51 <JohnnyPaper> +PuffTheMagic_: sry, just wondering if this name is better Jan 21 21:33:01 <JohnnyPaper> ya know, that song... Jan 21 21:33:19 <PuffTheMagic_> oh Jan 21 21:33:20 <PuffTheMagic_> lol Jan 21 21:33:37 <PuffTheMagic_> i didnt realize it was ryan_ Jan 21 21:33:39 <dBsooner> destinal: rwhitby is slipping. Normally he would have grep'd that link in about 10 seconds flat and had an auto-bash response. Jan 21 21:33:41 <JohnnyPaper> :P Jan 21 21:33:43 <PuffTheMagic_> JohnnyPaper: i wasnt serious you know Jan 21 21:33:51 <dBsooner> PuffTheMagic_: yes you were. Jan 21 21:34:16 <JohnnyPaper> I know, I'm just having fun, random lols are about all i have to contribute thus far here Jan 21 21:35:42 <dBsooner> JohnnyPaper: 75% of the people in here don't contribute. ;) Jan 21 21:35:55 <dBsooner> and the other 25% just contribute slack. Jan 21 21:36:24 <JohnnyPaper> that, and a skin for a calculator app that i'm hoping lots of ppl will d/l for free from the app catalog and hopefully promote this great group, that i dearly want to get some look-sees from you guys on ;P Jan 21 21:37:09 <PuffTheMagic_> why hasnt palm pulled this app off the website yet Jan 21 21:37:09 <JohnnyPaper> ..I'm working on an Ogre port in the background, just a slow-go for me Jan 21 21:37:37 <PuffTheMagic_> has anyone used dbus-util to capture any of the dbus calls by this new utility Jan 21 21:37:38 <rwhitby> VincentLaw: I use LimeChat on Mac for IRC Jan 21 21:37:41 <PuffTheMagic_> and documented them? Jan 21 21:37:52 <PuffTheMagic_> rwhitby: you gotta get with the Quassel movement :D Jan 21 21:38:05 <firestrider> is there any improvment in the nand controller or flash, increased clock speed or increased ram speed in the palm pre plus Jan 21 21:38:14 <Kyusaku> my bad on the distributing, links offline Jan 21 21:39:11 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic_: I already run bip as a bouncer. no need for a second level of indirection on a laptop Jan 21 21:39:33 <PuffTheMagic_> you could stop using bip :D Jan 21 21:44:14 <zsoc> Kyusaku: I suppose given the circumstances, honest mistakes are better than malicious intent Jan 21 21:44:44 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic_: I don't think that Palm cares about the miniscule number of people who (a) know what an ipk is, (b) can run wget, (c) know how to get a command line, (d) can follow instructions that are not written in one syllable words, (e) care about tethering. There's probably less than 100 people in the world that meet all those criteria, and can therefore make use of those ipkgs. Jan 21 21:45:02 <Kyusaku> zsoc: nothing malicious intended and it's software available free of charge via the app catalog Jan 21 21:45:10 <Kyusaku> not a pay app or anything Jan 21 21:45:24 <PuffTheMagic_> rwhitby: still seems odd that they would keep them up there Jan 21 21:45:25 <zsoc> rwhitby: 100 is shooting it pretty low... Jan 21 21:45:57 <zsoc> oh, counting e), maybe 100 is about right :) Jan 21 21:46:50 <rwhitby> Kyusaku: free of charge != redistributable. but the stuff is removed now so no harm no foul Jan 21 21:46:56 <PuffTheMagic_> just run freeTether, connect your pre to a local AP and then change your comptuers default gateway Jan 21 21:47:03 <PuffTheMagic_> then u can use it for internet Jan 21 21:47:50 <zsoc> I wonder if sprint will know you use hotspot... Jan 21 21:48:18 <rwhitby> zsoc: sprint and palm know absolutely everything you do on your webOS device. Jan 21 21:48:46 <zsoc> rwhitby: er... actively I mean. where as now ip forwarding is a very passive method of tethering Jan 21 21:48:52 <davo_> can anyone give tether help? Jan 21 21:49:09 <PuffTheMagic_> has anyone looked at the contents of these mobile hotspot ipks? Jan 21 21:49:16 <PuffTheMagic_> do they include a new wifi blob? Jan 21 21:49:28 <Rick_work> rwhitby -- if they choose to look. Sprint and Palm have logs containing everyting you do on your webOS device... that's a different story. Jan 21 21:49:44 <Kyusaku> spotter posted a listing of the ipk contents on the forums Jan 21 21:49:47 <Kyusaku> lemme get a link Jan 21 21:49:52 <Rick_work> PuffTheMagic_ they do NOT contain a wifi blob Jan 21 21:49:57 <rwhitby> Rick_work: right. they know. whether they choose to understand and act is another question. Jan 21 21:50:02 <PuffTheMagic_> Rick_work: hmmmm Jan 21 21:50:13 <Rick_work> yes PuffTheMagic_ exactly Jan 21 21:50:41 <Rick_work> they contain a mojo app, a binary router app, Jan 21 21:50:42 <davo_> can the pre tether? just got it... Jan 21 21:50:44 <PuffTheMagic_> Rick_work: i suppose the code that they removed from the wifi module could be called (with some light modifications to the code) from any linux app directly Jan 21 21:50:52 <Kyusaku> http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/225653-palm-mobile-hotspot-app.html#post2165975 Jan 21 21:51:06 <PuffTheMagic_> thats how those apps work to tweak bios's Jan 21 21:51:24 <PuffTheMagic_> so they could make an app that talks to the wifi hardware and not have it be a kernel module Jan 21 21:51:59 <VincentLaw> grr what encoding is the palm app feeds in Jan 21 21:52:13 <VincentLaw> it says utf-8 at the top but that sure is coming out a mess when processed as utf8 Jan 21 21:52:45 <spotter> rwhitby, it doesn't matter who knows how to do things, one one person knows, everyone knows Jan 21 21:52:58 <rwhitby> VincentLaw: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=blob;f=scripts/palm-scraper.py parses the palm feeds for preware.org Jan 21 21:53:00 <Rick_work> PuffTheMagic_ that's missing from the wifi ??? Jan 21 21:53:00 <zonyl> I got the GarnetOS VM to display on my pre. Pretty cool to see the palmOS environment (with grafiti) that is not Motion apps. Jan 21 21:53:01 <spotter> its what I say about the security of locking down kid's computers Jan 21 21:53:15 <spotter> once one of the peers figures out how to bypass it (say ubuntu live cd), everyone will end up knowing Jan 21 21:53:16 <davo_> does 'my tether' work Jan 21 21:53:22 <PuffTheMagic_> Rick_work: huh? Jan 21 21:53:41 <rwhitby> spotter: I don't see which of my comments you were responding to ... Jan 21 21:53:46 <spotter> 100 users Jan 21 21:53:50 <Rick_work> PuffTheMagic_ you said "they included what's missing from the wifi" -- what is it that's missing from the wifi drivers in the kernal? Jan 21 21:54:35 <davo_> i tried to fing freetether and havent had anyluck... Jan 21 21:54:44 <davo_> find Jan 21 21:54:45 <PuffTheMagic_> Rick_work: they seem to have removed (or commented out) the code in the wifi module that enables adhoc connections and/or never included the code that lets it go into an AP mode Jan 21 21:54:58 <PuffTheMagic_> adhoc mode was supported pre-1.3.5 Jan 21 21:55:16 <VincentLaw> yeah mytether used to do that :/ Jan 21 21:55:38 <rwhitby> spotter: everyone can know how to install openvpn and delegate.org on the pre. doesn't mean that more than 50 people will ever do it Jan 21 21:55:38 <PuffTheMagic_> Rick_work: all im saying is they can control the wifi hardware with out using an interface exposed my a kernel module Jan 21 21:55:54 <spotter> rwhitby, I think a lot of people care about tethering Jan 21 21:56:04 <PuffTheMagic_> s/my/by/ Jan 21 21:56:04 <infobot> PuffTheMagic_ meant: Rick_work: all im saying is they can control the wifi hardware with out using an interface exposed by a kernel module Jan 21 21:56:06 <spotter> if you ever take buses or stay in an airport waiting for a plane Jan 21 21:56:06 <xcomp> rwhitby: could you forward me info on what prevented ethumb from building on a fresh box? Jan 21 21:56:10 <spotter> or trains Jan 21 21:56:17 <spotter> or even long car rides Jan 21 21:56:24 <Rick_work> PuffTheMagic_ is it --possible-- that they simply masked those modes with "odd" turn on switches? Jan 21 21:56:29 <rwhitby> xcomp: it couldn't find ethumb.so when building ethumb_client. Jan 21 21:56:37 <rwhitby> xcomp: try it with an empty staging dir Jan 21 21:56:49 <PuffTheMagic_> Rick_work: sure Jan 21 21:57:10 <spotter> btw, what's this discussion about the "wifi" module about? Jan 21 21:57:16 <xcomp> hmmm ... curious one. I'll debug it Jan 21 21:57:24 <rwhitby> spotter: lots of peole care about tethering, but the intersection of that number with the number of people who could use those ipkgs in the state they are today is so small that I doubt Palm cares about trying to stop it Jan 21 21:57:34 <spotter> today :) Jan 21 21:57:43 <spotter> that will probably change Jan 21 21:57:51 <rwhitby> spotter: right. if it grows, they can pull the ipkg then. Jan 21 21:58:12 <spotter> but then its too late Jan 21 21:58:14 <rwhitby> spotter: any other redistribution of the ipkgs would get a C&D letter from their laywers Jan 21 21:58:19 <spotter> perhaps Jan 21 21:58:20 <davo_> my wife can tether her htc but i cannot get my pre to work... Jan 21 21:58:20 <PuffTheMagic_> spotter: too bad that they probably already gave enough clues to the people how know what is going on to build their own verions of what they do Jan 21 21:58:22 <Rick_work> PuffTheMagic_ so it's possible that the mobilehotspotd software simply calls it in a different way than you're expecting. So if we could figure out what PmNetConfigManager and MobileHotspotD were doing, we could simply REPLACE them with optware router code. Jan 21 21:58:24 <spotter> but that hasn't stopped anyone b4 Jan 21 21:58:43 <Rick_work> davo_ what have you done to get your pre to work? Jan 21 21:58:46 <PuffTheMagic_> lol "opware router code" Jan 21 21:58:49 <zsoc> tethering doesn't affect palm it affects the carrier, and sprint doesn't care at the moment. Jan 21 21:58:53 <rwhitby> spotter: since the ipkgs are going to be public in less than 30 days anyway, why would they bother doing something about it now? Jan 21 21:59:08 <Rick_work> ok PuffTheMagic_ fine. Slug router code. Jan 21 21:59:13 <Rick_work> :-) Jan 21 21:59:16 <PuffTheMagic_> Rick_work: thats not better Jan 21 21:59:33 <spotter> are those binaries stripped? Jan 21 21:59:36 <zsoc> Rick_work: magical internets code Jan 21 21:59:51 <Rick_work> PuffTheMagic_ I'm not trying to be precise, I'm trying to be simple. Precision comes later. Jan 21 21:59:52 <spotter> if not, ltrace would seem to show a lot of what functions are being called in them and what lib functions they are calling Jan 21 21:59:53 <davo_> i did the develop mode, had mytether but never saw the aoNet Jan 21 22:00:24 <Rick_work> davo_ do you have terminal on the pre, or do you have novaterm? Jan 21 22:00:25 <davo_> couldnt usb or wifi tether Jan 21 22:00:37 <PuffTheMagic_> Rick_work: yes if they just "disguised" the calls some how then we should be able to call them our selves from a custom application Jan 21 22:00:45 <Kyusaku> Sprint has a soft limit on their data plan to protect themselves who circumvent their system Jan 21 22:00:59 <spotter> don't all these things communicate over dbus? Jan 21 22:01:07 <spotter> couldn't we write a wrapper for them? Jan 21 22:01:19 <PuffTheMagic_> there is nothing sprint or palm can do really Jan 21 22:01:24 <davo_> i dont know but i remember the word novaterm Jan 21 22:01:26 <PuffTheMagic_> they gave us a linux device with root access Jan 21 22:01:36 <PuffTheMagic_> if you can imagine it, we can do it Jan 21 22:01:40 <spotter> PuffTheMagic_, android is worse Jan 21 22:01:45 <davo_> im new... just had the pre 1 week Jan 21 22:01:46 <spotter> android the whole OS is Open Jan 21 22:01:59 <spotter> here, at least palm hasn't opened the OS components they wrote from scratch Jan 21 22:02:07 <Rick_work> davo_ what instructions were you following for mytether? Jan 21 22:02:09 <psykoz> Sprint really barks about caring but back in 2003 and 2004 I had no highspeed internet available to me where I lived Jan 21 22:02:12 <spotter> (and by OS, I don't mean just kernel) Jan 21 22:02:29 <psykoz> I pretty much turned my Palm phone at the time into a fulltime internet connection for my house and easily was eating up 10-15gb of bandwidth on it a month Jan 21 22:02:39 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic_: exactly, I don't see why people think that anyone at Palm would care if people can create homebrew tethering solutions. It's not going to get into the app catalog, so the usage of it will be miniscule in the grand scheme of things, and if you abuse it then Sprint looks after that anyway. Jan 21 22:02:41 <spotter> all I know is that mobile hotspot + freetether enabling ip forwarding enables mobile hotspot to work Jan 21 22:02:43 <psykoz> And it was during the time people said Sprint will catch you if you do more than 5gb and shut you off Jan 21 22:02:55 <davo_> some video on you tube ... then like myprehack bs Jan 21 22:03:41 <Rick_work> davo_ oh. it's hard for us to debug "some video on youtube's" instructions. Jan 21 22:03:41 <PuffTheMagic_> its not like apple can prevent you from running bsd or linux on your macbook Jan 21 22:03:56 <spotter> 10gb of bandwidth a month on a 1xRTT connection? Jan 21 22:04:49 <xcomp> that's a lot of battery burnage Jan 21 22:05:46 <Kyusaku> how many phones did you go through Jan 21 22:05:47 <spotter> its impossible Jan 21 22:06:01 <spotter> I think its impossible to download 10GB in a month on a 1xRTT connection Jan 21 22:06:17 <spotter> 1xRTT is what 200kilobits per second? Jan 21 22:06:32 <psykoz> 144kbit Jan 21 22:07:07 <spotter> I guess it is Jan 21 22:07:09 <zonyl> PuffTheMagic_: I would think Apple could restrict the os if they required signed image? Jan 21 22:07:14 <davo_> The video was from palm hacks site Jan 21 22:07:20 <psykoz> You can do 1MByte/minute which is 64MByte/hour, 1.5GB/day Jan 21 22:07:31 <psykoz> easily can clobber 10gb/month Jan 21 22:07:34 <PuffTheMagic_> zonyl: they have no right to Jan 21 22:07:40 <spotter> as I said, I redid my math Jan 21 22:08:08 <spotter> can do 45GB per month if you due is 24/7 Jan 21 22:08:13 <spotter> and download constant Jan 21 22:08:18 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic_: sure they do - they can sell whatever they want to you Jan 21 22:08:47 <spotter> that 1MB/minute reminds me of my 56k days Jan 21 22:08:55 <PuffTheMagic_> rwhitby: sure they can sell a product and "attempt" to restrict how you use it, but once its yours you are free to exploit it however you want Jan 21 22:08:56 <spotter> remembering be able to do 20MB an hour :) Jan 21 22:09:01 <spotter> and timed things based on that Jan 21 22:09:21 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic_: agreed, as long as you didn't sign an agreement not to ... Jan 21 22:10:06 <PuffTheMagic_> rwhitby: yeah, i hope i never enconter a product with a clause like that Jan 21 22:10:23 <zonyl> PuffTheMagic_: I seem to recall I-Opener trying to restrict the os on their machines. Dont remember if they held out long enough to do a DRM legal battle with us that stuck windows 95 on them Jan 21 22:10:25 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic_: have you read the Palm Pre EULA lately? Jan 21 22:10:32 <davo_> Video showed how to open phone to developer mode or root, then download my tether... I followed directions shown there, not sure what I did wrong. Is there a better way to enable tethering? Jan 21 22:10:37 <spotter> I had an iopener Jan 21 22:10:48 <spotter> the ps2 port ended up falling off on mine Jan 21 22:10:50 <spotter> :) Jan 21 22:10:59 <zonyl> spotter: I ended up buying 10 of them ;) Jan 21 22:11:04 <PuffTheMagic_> rwhitby: i havent read an EULA in my life Jan 21 22:11:31 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic_: you're such a rebel Jan 21 22:11:44 <spotter> PuffTheMagic_, most people haven't :) Jan 21 22:11:50 <spotter> they just click ok Jan 21 22:11:51 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic_: do you stick it to the man too? Jan 21 22:11:51 <spotter> :) Jan 21 22:11:57 <PuffTheMagic_> rwhitby: lol Jan 21 22:12:15 <PuffTheMagic_> rwhitby: i was just being honest i dont read that crap Jan 21 22:12:30 <Abyssul> We need a download count for patches :) Jan 21 22:12:41 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic_: agreed, no-one does. Jan 21 22:13:18 <Kyusaku> the only people who read it are the drones that edit them and translate them into different languages Jan 21 22:14:12 <rwhitby> Kyusaku: and those who are trying to work out what they can legitimately do in an open and transparent manner without infringing on it. Jan 21 22:14:40 <zonyl> Kyusaku: I read the Pre's as I was in the early access program at one time. Wanted to make sure I didnt get into trouble. Jan 21 22:15:24 <zonyl> zonyl: In fact, Chuq never did respond to one of my questions about it .. hehe Jan 21 22:15:25 * rwhitby bbl Jan 21 22:15:32 <davo_> palmpre-hacks.com Jan 21 22:15:38 <JMyaDaGod> armv7 is pre or pixi? Jan 21 22:15:42 <xcomp> hmm...I wonder why we're compiling freetype Jan 21 22:15:49 <Kyusaku> arm7 is pr Jan 21 22:15:50 <Kyusaku> e Jan 21 22:15:55 <Kyusaku> arm6 is pixi Jan 21 22:16:00 <xcomp> pixi uses the inferior qualcomm chip Jan 21 22:16:02 <xcomp> :p Jan 21 22:16:03 <davo_> there video was on you tube Jan 21 22:16:13 <xcomp> up TI, down qualcomm Jan 21 22:16:18 <JMyaDaGod> Kyusaku : everything still working with hotspot? Jan 21 22:16:33 <Kyusaku> davo: ok we get it you used some shoddy old mytether instructions Jan 21 22:16:53 <davo_> are there less shody ones? Jan 21 22:17:12 <zonyl> davo_: I just installed 'tinyproxy' and use PAN Jan 21 22:17:17 <Rick_work> davo_ the "better way to enable wifi tethering" is at least a few days away. Just yesterday this team got access to palms wifi tethering software for Verizon and are in the process of tearing it apart and producing a truely open version for sprint. Jan 21 22:17:28 <Kyusaku> davo_: there's nothing publicly available that works perfectly Jan 21 22:17:30 <Abyssul> This guy makes a good interpret for when flash might come out. Seems like Palm likes to release before a major event so they might release flash the day before Apple's big event. Jan 21 22:17:33 <Rick_work> until then, davo_ there's "freetether" which works, but is largely undocumented. Jan 21 22:18:24 <Kyusaku> JMyaDaGod: should work, with some ip forwarding Jan 21 22:18:29 <davo_> i saw free tether some were but havent found the download Jan 21 22:18:32 <destinal> rwhitby: Sprint and palm know everything you do on your webos device, unless you disable their knowing Jan 21 22:18:48 <xcomp> hah -- precentral poll Jan 21 22:18:55 <JMyaDaGod> Kyusaku : just getting a chance to mess with pre now installing hotspot and freetether Jan 21 22:18:56 <davo_> freetether instructions? Jan 21 22:19:07 <xcomp> 81% sticking with sprint, only 5% switching to verizon Jan 21 22:19:07 <Volcom45> what exactly does the iphone spoof agent patch do for the browser? can the pre browser really not handle any asp.net local intranet sites? i can't get anything at work to work for me, get this 115 error Jan 21 22:19:26 <Kyusaku> what's the other 14% Jan 21 22:19:37 <destinal> Volcom45: the spoof agent won't help you there. Jan 21 22:19:39 <spotter> Volcom45, some sites are optimized for iphone and detect if its there and dont detect the pre, but content would work fine Jan 21 22:19:40 <xcomp> ostensibly new users Jan 21 22:19:46 <Volcom45> ah, thanks Jan 21 22:19:59 <xcomp> who didn't have a pre before Jan 21 22:20:15 <davo_> how do i get freetether? Jan 21 22:20:18 <Kyusaku> xcomp: well if they got money to burn, burn that mother down Jan 21 22:20:25 <Volcom45> sure wish it could handle asp.. Jan 21 22:20:29 <davo_> i just got the pre Jan 21 22:22:36 <Kyusaku> xcomp: The question is, how many of those 5% are using that change in contract to get out of their ETF to leave Sprint and go on VZN Jan 21 22:22:51 <Rick_work> davo_ see pm Jan 21 22:22:57 <xcomp> and take on a new $350 ETF? Jan 21 22:22:58 <davo_> googled 'ryans freetether' now i can hhook up a carseat with the best Jan 21 22:23:02 <dBsooner> I would not leave Sprint for VZW.. Jan 21 22:23:08 <xcomp> because that is such a brilliant financial move Jan 21 22:23:23 <xcomp> get out of a $200 ETF and sign a more expensive contract with a $350 ETF Jan 21 22:23:33 <dBsooner> VZW is much more expensive in the long run (in plan pricing).. and VZW JUST announced the LARGEST ETF in US History. Jan 21 22:23:40 <dBsooner> I think it's like $550 usd Jan 21 22:23:42 <Abyssul> dbsooner: lol Jan 21 22:23:46 <Abyssul> 350? Jan 21 22:23:51 <dBsooner> no, 550 Jan 21 22:23:54 <Kyusaku> xcomp: the ones who eat the Sprint ETF and take on the VZW ETF are the most brilliant Jan 21 22:23:56 <Abyssul> source? Jan 21 22:24:02 <dBsooner> Let me look it up Jan 21 22:24:08 <dBsooner> I saw it on a tweet Jan 21 22:24:22 <xcomp> it's actually worth it on verizon to just pay full price for the phone Jan 21 22:24:22 <Abyssul> Ill trust it when its from engadget or the sort... Jan 21 22:24:36 <xcomp> the discounted price is a greater ripoff Jan 21 22:26:01 <xcomp> rwhitby: I think we should have nightly WIDK builds for download Jan 21 22:26:23 <xcomp> so that app developers can just extract a tarball into a directory tree instead of having to build everything Jan 21 22:28:18 <Abyssul> I dont understand how 512mb = 50 apps, and 256 mb = 13 apps? Jan 21 22:28:58 <VincentLaw> Abyssul: cause the OS uses over 100mb by itself, Abyssul Jan 21 22:29:13 <Abyssul> I see, makes sense now Jan 21 22:29:23 <Abyssul> 156mb vs 412 mb Jan 21 22:31:09 <VincentLaw> okay so either php just can't do utf-8 for some reason or this is so not utf-8 Jan 21 22:31:24 <dBsooner> Abyssul: my fault. It was the Nexus One and t-mobile Jan 21 22:31:24 <dBsooner> http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/185976/google_nexus_one_early_termination_fee_could_reach_550.html Jan 21 22:31:36 <Abyssul> haha Jan 21 22:31:51 <Kyusaku> SuperETF for the superphone Jan 21 22:32:07 <Towzzer> hi Jan 21 22:32:08 <Towzzer> destinal Jan 21 22:32:14 <Towzzer> did you meet my other half braxton Jan 21 22:32:22 <Towzzer> he told me he was going to murder you if terminal wasn't fixed Jan 21 22:32:23 <Towzzer> but it's ok Jan 21 22:32:26 <Towzzer> i'll protect you Jan 21 22:32:35 <Towzzer> the only payment I ask is for terminal to be fixed Jan 21 22:33:24 <destinal> Towzzer: it's ok, I'm probably going to start murdering people who ask :) Jan 21 22:33:47 <Abyssul> dbsooner: My patches were accepted yet they arnt in the feed? Jan 21 22:33:49 <mdklein> PuffTheMagic_: was afk, not sure if this is what you meant, but to load the wifi into AP mode, "insmod /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/net/wifi/uap8xxx.ko helper_name=/lib/firmware/helper_sd.bin fw_name=/lib/firmware/sd8686_ap.bin" Jan 21 22:33:59 <PuffTheMagic_> :D Jan 21 22:34:02 <Towzzer> i think i'm using one of puff's themes Jan 21 22:34:06 <Towzzer> puff which did you make Jan 21 22:34:11 <destinal> PuffTheMagic_: any idea why iptables -t nat -A OUTPUT -p tcp --dport 80 -j DNAT --to-destination 192.168.0.2:80 does not work (where a public IP as a destination does work?) Jan 21 22:34:11 <PuffTheMagic_> they changed the firmware Jan 21 22:34:16 <PuffTheMagic_> mdklein: nice catch Jan 21 22:34:33 <PuffTheMagic_> destinal: im not a iptables person Jan 21 22:34:35 <xcomp> PuffTheMagic_: how's enterminus coming? are you hosting the code on git? Jan 21 22:34:41 <dBsooner> Abyssul: I know. I am waiting on egaudet_work to help me create a new "supercedes" stype Obsolete package. Jan 21 22:34:44 <Abyssul> Puff makes themes? for what Jan 21 22:34:50 <zsoc> destinal: terminal hasn't crashed on me in 3 days btw Jan 21 22:34:52 <Abyssul> dbsooner: Im just messing with ya :) Jan 21 22:34:54 <dBsooner> Abyssul: So I can't push these changes till we do that. Jan 21 22:34:54 <PuffTheMagic_> xcomp: i "forked" enterminus Jan 21 22:35:04 <destinal> zsoc: probably because you're not closing it Jan 21 22:35:06 <xcomp> yeah I gathered that Jan 21 22:35:08 <Towzzer> puffy made a theme Jan 21 22:35:11 <Abyssul> dbsooner: Doesn't matter to me when its released lol Jan 21 22:35:11 <zsoc> destinal: i have been, once a day ;) Jan 21 22:35:17 <PuffTheMagic_> xcomp: its known as terminus and is on git.webosinternalos.org Jan 21 22:35:18 <Abyssul> Towzzer: linky? Jan 21 22:35:22 <xcomp> PuffTheMagic_: although ... you shouldn't need to fork it Jan 21 22:35:25 <destinal> zsoc: heh, ok, very infrequent closes is a good workaround Jan 21 22:35:31 <Towzzer> ask puff Jan 21 22:35:48 <Abyssul> Puff doesnt tell anyone anything o.O Jan 21 22:35:48 <xcomp> if enterminus sucks and we make a better one we can always put the new version up on e svn :) Jan 21 22:35:51 <zsoc> destinal: ah, interesting :) i only briefly caught your explanation of it before Jan 21 22:35:52 <PuffTheMagic_> xcomp: xcomp well its gonna get some ui changes (prob with elementary) that are sorta pre specific Jan 21 22:36:01 <PuffTheMagic_> xcomp: so i fent it was sorta a fork Jan 21 22:36:12 <xcomp> i'll clone and check it out Jan 21 22:36:25 <xcomp> how much luck have you had with elementary on pre? Jan 21 22:36:34 <PuffTheMagic_> xcomp: i haven tried it yet Jan 21 22:36:41 <PuffTheMagic_> i havent gottent edje yet on gentoo Jan 21 22:36:49 <PuffTheMagic_> friggen lua issues with my crosssetup Jan 21 22:36:55 <PuffTheMagic_> i need to start over Jan 21 22:37:03 <xcomp> i haven't had time to do any serious hacking but I've seen some event-related issues in trying to port stuff like image-viewer Jan 21 22:37:04 <lemketron> @edektor @jfelectron - pubsub service IS in the emulator (afaik); you have to run First Use first and create (or sign into) a Palm profile. Jan 21 22:37:21 <PuffTheMagic_> xcomp: well im not really porting anything Jan 21 22:37:27 <xcomp> i'm waiting for okra to release his elm-based ephoto so I can work on porting it Jan 21 22:37:28 <PuffTheMagic_> well Jan 21 22:37:28 <Rick_work> lemketron can you CREATE a palm-profile in the emulator now???? Jan 21 22:37:30 <xcomp> yeah I know Jan 21 22:37:34 <PuffTheMagic_> idk enough about elementary yet Jan 21 22:37:39 <destinal> Rick_work: you always could AFAIK Jan 21 22:37:43 <PuffTheMagic_> i figured i could throw some buttons into enterminus Jan 21 22:37:47 <Kyusaku> yeah you always could Jan 21 22:37:47 <PuffTheMagic_> with little effort Jan 21 22:38:03 <Rick_work> weird. Ok, nevermind. Jan 21 22:38:10 <destinal> Rick_work: it won't be able to use catalog but running first use will do it Jan 21 22:38:14 <lemketron> evidently I got disconnected at 6:48 this morning... what did I miss? :-) Jan 21 22:38:36 <Rick_work> lemketron lots and lots and lots of discussion about Verizon tethering app. Jan 21 22:38:41 <Rick_work> oh and lots. Jan 21 22:38:42 <lemketron> heh Jan 21 22:38:53 <lemketron> that's 6:48am pst, fwiw. Jan 21 22:39:12 <xcomp> weird, ethumb built fine for me on a fresh checkout Jan 21 22:39:21 <zsoc> lemketron: check the logs? Jan 21 22:40:00 <Rick_work> lemketron and of course, the usual chatter about compiling this or that app in the wipk, Jan 21 22:40:12 <destinal> any iptables people here? I suspect my problem is that I'm trying to cross interfaces with the output natted packets Jan 21 22:40:31 <destinal> I'm trying to redirect traffic normally destined for the internet to usb0 Jan 21 22:40:34 <destinal> iptables -t nat -A OUTPUT -p tcp --dport 80 -j DNAT --to-destination 192.168.0.2:80 Jan 21 22:40:55 * xcomp nukes staging and tries again Jan 21 22:41:32 <Rick_work> lemketron at least no one is bothering to try to use tethering in the emulator :-) Jan 21 22:41:53 <lemketron> zsoc - yeah, just remembered that. Jan 21 22:42:26 <destinal> Rick_work: the most fun is setting up a hotspot on one pre and connecting to it with another Jan 21 22:42:44 <destinal> totally pointless, yet somehow amusing Jan 21 22:42:53 <lemketron> Rick_work: I wouldn't be surprised if someone tried... heck, how much time did you guys waste^H^H^H^H^H work on video recording? ;-) ;-) Jan 21 22:43:05 <xcomp> destinal: "because we can" Jan 21 22:43:35 <lemketron> destinal: not pointless if one of those Pres is on a different network w/o coverage. Jan 21 22:43:43 <destinal> lemketron: true Jan 21 22:43:56 <lemketron> better still... offer connectivity to your iPhone-toting friends. Jan 21 22:43:57 <Kyusaku> destinal: the ultimate would be tethering an iPhone to the Pre. Jan 21 22:44:02 <lemketron> jinx Jan 21 22:44:03 <destinal> :) Jan 21 22:44:06 <Rick_work> lemketron you know video recording worked pretty damned well considering we didn't have the sdl drivers. Jan 21 22:44:16 <xcomp> it certainly did Jan 21 22:44:33 <destinal> Rick_work: I doubt the future palm solution will use SDL Jan 21 22:44:57 <destinal> a plugin with GST / DSP support and stuff, sure Jan 21 22:44:59 <Kyusaku> "I have no signal on AT&T here, can I tether to your Pre for internet?" Jan 21 22:45:03 <lemketron> hey, you can port video recording to the emulator. :-) Jan 21 22:45:14 <Rick_work> hey, there's a thought. Jan 21 22:45:18 <lemketron> Kyusaku: that would make a great verizon ad Jan 21 22:45:21 * xcomp should look into building an elementary frontend for mplayer on webos Jan 21 22:45:33 <Rick_work> and we can patch in web-cam support into the emulator for camera functions. Jan 21 22:45:36 <destinal> lots of stuff that needs to be made work on the emulator for it to be an adequate testing platform Jan 21 22:45:45 <destinal> for -internals type hacking anyway Jan 21 22:45:46 <lemketron> patches welcome. :-) Jan 21 22:46:02 <Rick_work> you know, I suspect he actually means that btw. Jan 21 22:46:05 <destinal> lemketron: oh, wait, are your vbox patches public? Jan 21 22:46:22 <lemketron> we use stock vbox Jan 21 22:46:42 <destinal> lemketron: oh, right, the special stuff you've added is in hidd things Jan 21 22:46:46 <Rick_work> lemketron when do we expect to see versions of vbox later than 3.0.10 supported.... Jan 21 22:46:51 <destinal> orientation changes on function keys and things Jan 21 22:47:07 <lemketron> Rick: ugg... we still have a couple of issues to resolve for 3.1 support. Jan 21 22:47:21 <lemketron> at the top of the list might be "disabling the auto update check" so people aren't tempted to upgrade to something that breaks. Jan 21 22:47:34 <Rick_work> can you even hint what they are? People keep ASKING us. Jan 21 22:47:42 <xcomp> dang... I need to look into getting a new video card Jan 21 22:47:52 <lemketron> the issues? I've heard networking is broke but I think 3.1.2 might've fixed that. Jan 21 22:47:53 <Rick_work> and some people force the issue and run it by hand, and say "LOOK IT WORKS" -- and we don't know what to tell them. Jan 21 22:47:56 <xcomp> apparently newer nvidia cards do H.264 decoding Jan 21 22:48:05 <lemketron> there's something wrong with the mouse integration which I haven't looked into yet Jan 21 22:48:06 <xcomp> and my geforce 6600 doesn't Jan 21 22:48:13 * Rick_work needs a new computer. Jan 21 22:48:14 <destinal> Rick_work: palm-emulator is the biggest thing that breaks Jan 21 22:48:16 <destinal> IMO Jan 21 22:48:23 <xcomp> yeah that too Jan 21 22:48:23 <Towzzer> why not use phone Jan 21 22:48:24 <psykoz> xcomp, all cards that nvidia and ATI market as HD* cards will do hardware h264 decoding Jan 21 22:48:25 <lemketron> and the big one is VBoxManage changed their command-line syntax which broke the palm-emulator tool that creates and launches VMs. Jan 21 22:48:31 <spotter> I just want wma and ogg gstreamer support Jan 21 22:48:47 <lemketron> if you know gstreamer, hack in wma or ogg. Jan 21 22:48:48 <Rick_work> lemketron ahhh. Jan 21 22:48:50 <Mousey> i just want a jabber client. oh and syncml Jan 21 22:48:53 <lemketron> or heck, mp3. Jan 21 22:48:56 <psykoz> and you really need one if you want to watch h264 videos, otherwise cpu processing software wise for decoding h264 will eat up 100% of a single core p4, 60-70% of a dualcore processor, etc Jan 21 22:49:15 <Towzzer> coreavc might help Jan 21 22:49:19 <spotter> psykoz, it depends on bitrate Jan 21 22:49:31 <spotter> yes, if you are trying to decode a bluray Jan 21 22:49:38 <Mousey> or on windows Jan 21 22:49:39 <lemketron> on a webos device? Jan 21 22:49:41 * Mousey ducks! Jan 21 22:49:47 <spotter> but plenty of low bitrate stuff is made for small screen devices Jan 21 22:50:00 <spotter> also depends on what options are used in the codec Jan 21 22:50:09 <Rick_work> lemketron so, internally, there is some subtle problem with the mouse, and externally the calls to do things like palm-emulator --reset are broken in 3.1.x Jan 21 22:50:23 <xcomp> i think an efl-based mplayer frontend with playlist support would be in very high demand Jan 21 22:50:42 <lemketron> yeah, I think we are close to having a fix for palm-emulator, then we'll need to look at the mouse stuff. Jan 21 22:50:46 <xcomp> video output to sdl, audio output to pulse Jan 21 22:50:57 <Rick_work> lemketron thanks. Jan 21 22:51:04 <spotter> lemketron, well the first part of hacking in support as that you guys neutered gstreamer's plugin support Jan 21 22:51:09 <lemketron> is there something in 3.1 that people want, or is it just annoying to get the update notices? Those CAN be turned off in the VBox prefs, btw. Jan 21 22:51:20 <lemketron> spotter: Oh? Jan 21 22:51:23 <spotter> yes Jan 21 22:51:40 <spotter> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Gstreamer Jan 21 22:51:42 <Rick_work> lemketron if someone is downloading the sdk for the first time, they get 3.1.x unless they KNOW to go get an "old" version. Jan 21 22:51:47 <Rick_work> it's a constant tech support pita. Jan 21 22:51:54 <spotter> registry adjustment being the main thing Jan 21 22:51:58 <zsoc> spotter: no no no Jan 21 22:52:01 <zsoc> spotter: that's all old and wrong Jan 21 22:52:09 <zsoc> spotter: as of 1.3.5 they fixed that Jan 21 22:52:13 <spotter> they did? Jan 21 22:52:30 <zsoc> spotter: honestly it worked before anyway, but it works now with just a simple gst-inspect Jan 21 22:52:44 <zsoc> spotter: the REAL problem is backporting recent modules to work on 0.10.21 Jan 21 22:53:03 <zsoc> spotter: advantage is i've done about 30 of the muxing/encoding ones, so i'm imaging the demuxing/decoding ones have similar patches Jan 21 22:53:12 <spotter> why not just create a gstreamer build environment then? Jan 21 22:53:17 <zsoc> spotter: i really should just rip down everything i did on the wiki for those things, all kinda wrong Jan 21 22:53:26 <spotter> zsoc: do you have a build environment? Jan 21 22:53:29 <spotter> what not tar it up for others Jan 21 22:53:34 <zsoc> spotter: at this point that's a reasonable option, to run 0.10.24 as a parallel library Jan 21 22:53:45 <spotter> zsoc: but that doesn't help with their media player Jan 21 22:53:50 <zsoc> spotter: er, my build environment is a gentoo stg 3 crossdev hack Jan 21 22:54:03 <Rick_work> Hmmmm -- I wonder what innocent 19 year old I could sucker into hacking webcam support into the emulator to let camera and video apps run... :-) Jan 21 22:54:14 <spotter> the idea would be to trick their player into playing othe formats Jan 21 22:54:15 <zsoc> spotter: right, that's why i back ported what i did, but again it was in an effort for audio/video recording, so it's all muxers and encoders Jan 21 22:54:16 <Kyusaku> did they make any changes to gstreamer in 1.4.0 to better accomodate the video recording? Jan 21 22:54:28 <zsoc> spotter: no that's definitely not the idea. Jan 21 22:54:35 <zsoc> Kyusaku: i don't think anyone can tell you that Jan 21 22:54:36 <spotter> that's my idea :) Jan 21 22:54:46 <zsoc> spotter: I think we went over this, it doesn't work Jan 21 22:54:49 <Kyusaku> zsoc: true Jan 21 22:54:49 <spotter> could always make a seperate media player I guess Jan 21 22:54:53 <zsoc> spotter: you'd need a binary hack to the file indexer Jan 21 22:55:02 <zsoc> spotter: if you want to get out your hex manual, go for it Jan 21 22:55:03 <xcomp> see, now this is what I'm talking about Jan 21 22:55:04 <spotter> even file extension change wont help? Jan 21 22:55:06 <xcomp> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPCDOEs5mGo Jan 21 22:55:16 <zsoc> spotter: has nothing to do with file extension, it's about metadata Jan 21 22:55:18 <spotter> it actually uses libmagic on the files? Jan 21 22:55:20 <spotter> whoa Jan 21 22:55:22 <xcomp> *that* would be worth porting to pre Jan 21 22:55:23 <zsoc> spotter: FAKING metadata is a very bad idea Jan 21 22:55:32 <xcomp> and it would play back anything Jan 21 22:55:59 <spotter> ok Jan 21 22:56:09 <jacques_pre> howdy Jan 21 22:56:10 <zsoc> xcomp: i'm sure that doesn't use it's own libs :P Jan 21 22:56:21 <zsoc> xcomp: there's still some basic blocks it's on... gstreamer or ffmpeg probably Jan 21 22:56:27 <xcomp> zsoc: yeah Jan 21 22:56:28 <jacques_pre> waiting for avatar to start Jan 21 22:56:31 <xcomp> geexbox Jan 21 22:56:34 <JMyaDaGod> anyone do a wiki on getting hotspot to work on sprint? Jan 21 22:56:41 <spotter> personally, it be nice if palm made their messaging app and media player more extensible even if not officially supported Jan 21 22:56:45 <zsoc> jacques: lol, enjoy the show! Jan 21 22:56:45 * Rick_work going home. have fun guys, I'm going to crash tonight. Jan 21 22:57:00 <spotter> but wishes are what they are Jan 21 22:57:05 <spotter> anyways Jan 21 22:57:34 <zsoc> spotter: technically it's extensible... just not with /their/ players ;) Jan 21 22:57:36 <zsoc> but I think that's ok Jan 21 22:57:43 <zsoc> making a 'filepicker' in sdl is pretty easy Jan 21 22:57:56 <zsoc> making an _indexer_ might prove more challenging, but i'm sure there's someone here that could do it Jan 21 22:58:00 <jacques_pre> zsoc: thanks, last time I saw reald, today dolby 3d Jan 21 22:58:02 <xcomp> zsoc: it uses libplayer, which apparently will work with mplayer, xine, vlc or gst Jan 21 22:58:15 <zsoc> xcomp: good to know Jan 21 22:58:16 <jacques_pre> reald has cooler glasses Jan 21 22:58:29 <zsoc> jacques: lol yes! and it's much less 'gimicky' 3d, more just nicely done Jan 21 22:58:53 <spotter> zsoc: there is already internalz Jan 21 22:59:04 <zsoc> spotter: eh.. that's all java Jan 21 22:59:06 <zsoc> and a service Jan 21 22:59:08 <zsoc> yuk Jan 21 22:59:09 <spotter> right Jan 21 22:59:23 <spotter> a file indexer service would be useful Jan 21 22:59:29 <spotter> dont have to reinvent wheel for each program Jan 21 22:59:30 <zsoc> spotter: anyway, getting support for any opensource filetype should be simple, atleast i can provide the plugins Jan 21 22:59:43 <jacques_pre> we went to imax 3d but left because of the glasses/3d process Jan 21 22:59:46 <zsoc> spotter: yes, me and ajames talked about a file indexer C service, back in the day before he disappeared Jan 21 23:00:16 <spotter> heck, it be relatively easy to have service that just forked mplayer to play music Jan 21 23:00:26 <spotter> pass it a file an have it just play Jan 21 23:00:33 <zsoc> spotter: and honestly, if i could find him, i'm 75% sure he could actually do the binary patch/hack for the existing indexer Jan 21 23:00:37 <spotter> and then if called again, signal(-9) it Jan 21 23:00:46 <zsoc> ~seen ajames Jan 21 23:00:48 <infobot> ajames <n=ajames@216.160.189.238> was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 40d 20h 51m 53s ago, saying: 'what's it from?'. Jan 21 23:00:59 <spotter> he's dead jim Jan 21 23:01:01 <spotter> ;) Jan 21 23:01:15 <zsoc> lulzyes Jan 21 23:01:27 <zsoc> anyway, i have some artwork to mangle Jan 21 23:16:18 <rwhitby> xcomp: hmm - regarding nightly widk builds - is there anything in there which is not open source? Jan 21 23:17:18 <xcomp> hmm...if you excluded palm binaries Jan 21 23:17:27 <xcomp> scripted that portion Jan 21 23:17:37 <xcomp> everything else should be open source Jan 21 23:17:51 <xcomp> that admittedly is easier said than done though Jan 21 23:19:58 <xcomp> .oOo. ldd /usr/bin/mplayer | wc -l Jan 21 23:19:58 <xcomp> 124 Jan 21 23:20:06 <xcomp> (damn) Jan 21 23:20:57 <xcomp> rwhitby: btw, I just tried twice with ethumb and got no errors Jan 21 23:21:02 <zsoc> I love me some path/pen tool Jan 21 23:21:14 <xcomp> rwhitby: completely fresh git checkout Jan 21 23:21:31 <rwhitby> xcomp: do you have e libs installed on the host? Jan 21 23:21:53 <rwhitby> xcomp: do we have any palm binaries in widk which are not covered by opensource.palm.com? Jan 21 23:22:18 <zsoc> rwhitby: it's ok if it's extracted by the doctor, no? Jan 21 23:22:33 <xcomp> rwhitby: yes, but none of them appear to be available inside scratchbox Jan 21 23:23:24 <xcomp> rwhitby: i'll try to see if I can get my virtualbox setup working later, hopefully I can duplicate it then Jan 21 23:23:57 <rwhitby> zsoc: no, it's not ok if it comes from the doctor. it's only ok if the file from palm is open source licensed (e.g. is buildable from stuff on opensource.palm.com) Jan 21 23:24:14 <xcomp> yeah, that's why I said those would have to be script-downloaded Jan 21 23:24:33 <xcomp> even if it's on palm.com we still don't build it anyway Jan 21 23:24:48 <rwhitby> my question is what libs do we use that are not on opensource.palm.com ? Jan 21 23:24:53 <PuffTheMagic_> rwhitby: i think it should be more than nightly builds Jan 21 23:25:04 <destinal> rwhitby: we can USE libs that are not open source Jan 21 23:25:11 <xcomp> rwhitby: other than efl, I don't know Jan 21 23:25:12 <destinal> right? Jan 21 23:25:27 <rwhitby> destinal: we can use them, but not distribute them in a nightly build Jan 21 23:25:36 <destinal> right Jan 21 23:25:37 <xcomp> but then the point is to try to skip the lengthy configure and make install process for each lib Jan 21 23:25:58 <rwhitby> xcomp: sorry, what palm libs do we have in the staging area which are not open source programs listed on opensource.palm.com Jan 21 23:25:59 <PuffTheMagic_> destinal: im having issues with this ioctl thing Jan 21 23:26:17 <xcomp> hmm...there's a few Jan 21 23:26:38 <xcomp> the ones that are bsd licensed, which palm isn't obligated to post source Jan 21 23:26:51 <rwhitby> xcomp: I think we need to change the build process to handle *those* specially (with a different target) and then we can build and distribute the rest) Jan 21 23:27:07 <xcomp> trying to remember specifically now Jan 21 23:27:24 <xcomp> fontconfig is one Jan 21 23:27:35 <rwhitby> hmm - even if the source was bsd licensed, that doesn't give us the right to redistribute the binary from palm's doctor Jan 21 23:28:10 <xcomp> yeah, definitely - if it isn't gpl we can't distribute the binary Jan 21 23:28:22 <rwhitby> (unless we have the full source code to rebuild it). Jan 21 23:28:31 <xcomp> still we couldn't Jan 21 23:28:36 <xcomp> we could distribute our own build Jan 21 23:28:39 <rwhitby> right Jan 21 23:28:52 <xcomp> but we have no idea what modifications palm has made Jan 21 23:29:12 <rwhitby> right - we need the *full* source code, including modifications, before we can redistribute Jan 21 23:29:47 <rwhitby> (and even then, as you said, we'd need to distribute our binary, not theirs) Jan 21 23:30:25 <xcomp> but if it is gpl, then we can distribute the palm binary since by the terms of the license nothing it cannot contain proprietary code Jan 21 23:30:34 <rwhitby> agreed Jan 21 23:31:49 <xcomp> man ... mplayer is going to be a bit of a project Jan 21 23:32:00 <xcomp> all these codec libs Jan 21 23:32:12 <PuffTheMagic_> destinal: nm got it working Jan 21 23:32:17 <xcomp> plus alsa, pulseaudio Jan 21 23:33:37 <xcomp> it's probably better to try to use emotion even though it would be a similar amount of work with libxine Jan 21 23:33:58 <xcomp> but then with emotion the video is an evas object so you can do cool things with it Jan 21 23:36:32 <xcomp> yeah I think xine is a much better approach... Jan 21 23:36:43 <xcomp> just add ogg/vorbis Jan 21 23:36:51 <Mousey> and jabber Jan 21 23:43:13 <dBsooner> HP Envy VS MBP? Jan 21 23:44:41 <xcomp> ok, so for xine i need pulseaudio, alsa, ogg/vorbis, perhaps theora, libfaad and flac Jan 21 23:45:33 <VincentLaw> FINALLY got my encoding issues figured out, and I finally have a working script for importing the palm catalog to sql. woohoo Jan 21 23:48:11 <Kyusaku> project appetizer Jan 21 23:48:31 <VincentLaw> ? Jan 21 23:51:42 <Kyusaku> nothing Jan 21 23:54:29 <PuffTheMagic_> xcomp: u pull terminus? Jan 21 23:54:44 <PuffTheMagic_> xcomp: cause i just pushed 2 commits Jan 21 23:54:50 <xcomp> PuffTheMagic_: not yet Jan 21 23:59:17 <rboatright> hi Jan 22 00:01:52 <dBsooner> rboatright: thought you were crashing tonight? Jan 22 00:02:11 <rboatright> on couch Jan 22 00:02:21 <dBsooner> ohh Jan 22 00:03:03 <PuffTheMagic_> zsoc: ping Jan 22 00:03:05 <PuffTheMagic_> destinal: ping Jan 22 00:04:01 <destinal> PuffTheMagic_: pongg Jan 22 00:04:21 <PuffTheMagic_> destinal: i got that IOCTL stuff working Jan 22 00:04:32 <PuffTheMagic_> and i found in the code that it does get called already Jan 22 00:04:37 <PuffTheMagic_> but only on resize Jan 22 00:04:47 <PuffTheMagic_> so i add an initial seting of it Jan 22 00:04:54 <PuffTheMagic_> and term behaves much better now thanks Jan 22 00:05:03 <PuffTheMagic_> destinal: now to figure out why escape is not escaping Jan 22 00:06:06 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic_: wat Jan 22 00:06:15 <rboatright> what keys are you binding to esc? Jan 22 00:06:17 <PuffTheMagic_> zsoc: you should try terminus Jan 22 00:06:23 <PuffTheMagic_> rboatright: backswipe Jan 22 00:06:28 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic_: you should package it for the testing feed Jan 22 00:06:30 <rboatright> ahhhhh Jan 22 00:08:27 <PuffTheMagic_> zsoc: i guess i could Jan 22 00:08:40 <PuffTheMagic_> but i would feel better is escape worked first Jan 22 00:08:51 <rboatright> good idea Jan 22 00:13:45 <lordbah> gftp from my desktop can't write to Pre's /media/internal, and I can't chown or chmod it. Is there a way around this? Jan 22 00:15:23 <rboatright> use a key so yo sftp as root? Jan 22 00:18:29 <FreeTim1> lordbah : you should be able to use WinSCP to get a secure connection to it, that should let you. Jan 22 00:22:15 <PuffTheMagic_> destinal: ping Jan 22 00:22:39 <destinal> PuffTheMagic_: yeah, escape... hmmm Jan 22 00:23:29 <PuffTheMagic_> destinal: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=applications/terminus.git;a=blobdiff;f=src/src/bin/handlers.c;h=6bd2899702c02c51a0ec75f991e16a927737e376;hp=82b0c84d305d203e669de513f4db33d481da7d4f;hb=d64a4b89c8a44ca11e0e4a90fd2e919120d67a8a;hpb=9648ce01ec468d5b1df49dbb4aca172c28622a18 Jan 22 00:23:40 <lordbah> @rboatright: I am connecting as a user account that I created, not as root. I can't recall whether there was a root password, as I always ssh in under the user account and then sudo. Jan 22 00:24:02 <PuffTheMagic_> i hate sudo Jan 22 00:28:01 <destinal> PuffTheMagic_: that should work fine Jan 22 00:28:02 <destinal> wtf Jan 22 00:28:19 <PuffTheMagic_> destinal: well i am testing with vi Jan 22 00:28:24 <PuffTheMagic_> and i can press i Jan 22 00:28:26 <PuffTheMagic_> and type Jan 22 00:28:31 <PuffTheMagic_> but i cant get back to the menu Jan 22 00:28:36 <PuffTheMagic_> i cant press escape Jan 22 00:28:39 <PuffTheMagic_> weee Jan 22 00:28:40 <PuffTheMagic_> err Jan 22 00:28:46 <PuffTheMagic_> i cant press : Jan 22 00:28:54 <Kyusaku> oh noes Jan 22 00:29:17 <PuffTheMagic_> it just says in insert mode Jan 22 00:29:25 <destinal> PuffTheMagic_: try cat | hexdump -C Jan 22 00:29:39 <FreeTim1> no no Jan 22 00:29:59 <FreeTim1> why would you want to escape from vi :) Jan 22 00:30:00 <PuffTheMagic_> destinal: i cant do a | yet Jan 22 00:33:35 <sryan> anyone know if they changed the clock speed or nand controller/flash or memory bandwidth in the preplus? Jan 22 00:36:06 <PuffTheMagic_> destinal: on my lappy ESC = ^[ Jan 22 00:36:23 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic_: from vi?... doesn't the backswipe work? Jan 22 00:36:32 <PuffTheMagic_> zsoc: no it dont Jan 22 00:36:49 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic_: well backgesture = esc, and esc = release insert mode Jan 22 00:36:50 <zsoc> so.. Jan 22 00:37:05 <zsoc> works in npapi terminal Jan 22 00:37:20 <PuffTheMagic_> zsoc: ummm Jan 22 00:37:39 <PuffTheMagic_> back gesture does trigger an "escape" key event in sdl and evas Jan 22 00:37:47 <PuffTheMagic_> but i have to do something on that event Jan 22 00:37:50 <PuffTheMagic_> zsoc: that is that issue Jan 22 00:37:55 <PuffTheMagic_> zsoc: what i am doing is not working Jan 22 00:38:00 <PuffTheMagic_> the event is recieved Jan 22 00:38:01 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic_: OH, i missed a layer of abstraction there somewhere :P Jan 22 00:51:54 <PuffTheMagic_> destinal: i think it is working Jan 22 00:51:58 <PuffTheMagic_> its : thats not working Jan 22 00:53:21 <destinal> what? Jan 22 00:54:06 <PuffTheMagic_> : Jan 22 00:54:07 <PuffTheMagic_> colon Jan 22 00:54:22 <destinal> did you try making cat | hexdump -C a script on another terminal and running it on the evas? Jan 22 00:54:44 <destinal> see what chars are getting through and what not? Jan 22 00:55:55 <Towzzer> :D Jan 22 00:56:13 <PuffTheMagic_> yeah i get ^@ for the gesture area tap Jan 22 00:56:24 <PuffTheMagic_> and then a ^[ from the backswipe gesture Jan 22 00:56:33 <Towzzer> what are you guys talking about Jan 22 00:56:36 <PuffTheMagic_> the problem is that : seds a ; Jan 22 00:57:25 <destinal> ah Jan 22 00:57:45 <destinal> evas issue? Jan 22 00:58:48 <zsoc> Towzzer: how funny symbols affect everyday life Jan 22 00:59:03 <PuffTheMagic_> destinal: idk Jan 22 00:59:08 <PuffTheMagic_> prob not Jan 22 00:59:57 <Towzzer> hey destinal Jan 22 01:00:16 <Towzzer> I start school again in a few days Jan 22 01:00:20 <Towzzer> I won't be around to pester you Jan 22 01:00:21 <Towzzer> comments? Jan 22 01:00:52 <egaudet> destinal, when did the terminal bug show up originally? Jan 22 01:01:22 <destinal> egaudet: 1.3.5 Jan 22 01:01:56 <destinal> looks like there the issues that caused it in terminal have been around since July or so Jan 22 01:02:05 <destinal> if terminal be at fault Jan 22 01:02:33 <destinal> but versions before 1.3.5 never triggered the issue to occur Jan 22 01:03:05 <egaudet> how far debugging have you gotten? Jan 22 01:03:12 <PuffTheMagic_> destinal: yeah its an evas issue Jan 22 01:03:14 <PuffTheMagic_> xcomp: ping Jan 22 01:03:38 <destinal> egaudet: the only thing I know for sure is that it's in the Deallocate function, it enters that function, and crashes on the delete() call Jan 22 01:03:45 <destinal> only the second time you close it Jan 22 01:04:22 <destinal> I've added debugging to the pointers to the memory it allocates and deallocates and it's fine Jan 22 01:04:24 <destinal> I think Jan 22 01:04:27 <xcomp> PuffTheMagic_: pong Jan 22 01:04:44 <destinal> at any rate it's exactly the same pattern as has always been there in all the older webos and terminal versions Jan 22 01:04:49 <PuffTheMagic_> xcomp: found another evas/sdl bug Jan 22 01:05:06 <PuffTheMagic_> xcomp: i might have a patch soon but if you can fix it quicker that would be cool Jan 22 01:05:11 <Towzzer> this is why I keep protesting outside bjorn's house Jan 22 01:05:14 <Towzzer> demanding garbage collection Jan 22 01:05:33 <Towzzer> wait is it bjarne? Jan 22 01:06:23 <xcomp> PuffTheMagic_: i'll fix it ... what's the bug? Jan 22 01:06:46 <PuffTheMagic_> xcomp: pressing color returns a semicolon event Jan 22 01:07:03 <xcomp> oh...hmmm Jan 22 01:07:10 <xcomp> what SDL event does it show up as? Jan 22 01:07:20 <PuffTheMagic_> colon Jan 22 01:07:39 <PuffTheMagic_> verified via checkkeys tool in src/test of SDL Jan 22 01:07:45 <xcomp> ew...that sounds like it's an SDL bug, not an evas bug Jan 22 01:07:59 <PuffTheMagic_> how is it an SDL bug Jan 22 01:08:18 <PuffTheMagic_> colon sends colon, semicolon sends semicolon Jan 22 01:08:20 <PuffTheMagic_> in SDL Jan 22 01:08:27 <xcomp> oh, i see Jan 22 01:08:32 <PuffTheMagic_> en evans colon and semicolon are both semicolon Jan 22 01:08:39 <PuffTheMagic_> s/en evans/in evas/ Jan 22 01:08:40 <infobot> PuffTheMagic_ meant: in evas colon and semicolon are both semicolon Jan 22 01:09:09 <PuffTheMagic_> xcomp: or is this an ecore/sdl issue Jan 22 01:10:05 <xcomp> yeah ... ecore handles the events I believe Jan 22 01:10:35 <PuffTheMagic_> i found the issue Jan 22 01:10:42 <PuffTheMagic_> Ecore_Sdl_Keys.h Jan 22 01:10:49 <xcomp> yeah just saw it as well Jan 22 01:10:52 <xcomp> fixing now Jan 22 01:12:29 <xcomp> committed to SVN Jan 22 01:12:39 <PuffTheMagic_> k Jan 22 01:12:40 <PuffTheMagic_> thanks Jan 22 01:13:03 <xcomp> you'll need to build libecore_sdl again Jan 22 01:13:07 <PuffTheMagic_> yeah Jan 22 01:13:10 <PuffTheMagic_> in progress Jan 22 01:13:57 <destinal> terminus for the pre will cause evas to get exercised in ways it doesn't get that frequently, it seems :) Jan 22 01:14:24 <PuffTheMagic_> destinal: no one cares about sdl Jan 22 01:14:37 <destinal> yeah, most platforms have X Jan 22 01:14:55 <destinal> even though IMO X is fairly bloated at times Jan 22 01:14:55 <PuffTheMagic_> so far the fixes have been easy Jan 22 01:15:09 <PuffTheMagic_> wayland will be interesting Jan 22 01:15:15 <PuffTheMagic_> that is really tiny Jan 22 01:15:20 <PuffTheMagic_> and should work with GLES Jan 22 01:15:38 <destinal> PuffTheMagic_: ooh Jan 22 01:15:42 <destinal> I was not aware of it Jan 22 01:15:47 <PuffTheMagic_> destinal: you hear of wayland? Jan 22 01:15:49 <xcomp> destinal: well, it will essentially use an evas output engine that has otherwise never been used for anything beyond proof-of-concept tests Jan 22 01:15:51 <Towzzer> windows 7 has hardware graphics 2d accerlation Jan 22 01:15:54 <Towzzer> it's nice Jan 22 01:16:11 <destinal> xcomp: cool, we can contribute! :) Jan 22 01:16:43 <xcomp> speaking of which, I should get working on that gl_sdl engine sometime Jan 22 01:16:48 <PuffTheMagic_> destinal: wayland is this new X server that is being written from scratch and only works with GL basically Jan 22 01:16:59 <xcomp> not sure if I should do that before or after I build mplayer Jan 22 01:17:17 <VincentLaw> haha mplayer Jan 22 01:17:30 <xcomp> err actually not mplayer -- libxine + emotion :) Jan 22 01:17:41 <VincentLaw> ew xine :p Jan 22 01:17:52 <PuffTheMagic_> VincentLaw: ++ Jan 22 01:17:57 <xcomp> video as an evas object -- yum Jan 22 01:18:29 * xcomp remembers a few years ago when we first demoed emotion at linuxworld in SF Jan 22 01:18:59 <PuffTheMagic_> xcomp: i think i watched that Jan 22 01:19:01 <xcomp> had these alpha-transparent videos layered on top of each other, projected on the wall Jan 22 01:19:12 <xcomp> back in those days there was no such thing as compositing Jan 22 01:19:24 <xcomp> so people were walking by with their jaws dropped Jan 22 01:20:18 <destinal> PuffTheMagic_: we should port wayland :) Jan 22 01:20:21 <destinal> PuffTheMagic_: http://hoegsberg.blogspot.com/2008/12/two-x-servers-and-microphone.html Jan 22 01:20:28 <xcomp> how big is wayland? Jan 22 01:20:35 <PuffTheMagic_> xcomp: tiny Jan 22 01:20:41 <PuffTheMagic_> xcomp: what revision was your commit Jan 22 01:20:47 <xcomp> hmm, maybe it can run raster's illume Jan 22 01:20:54 <xcomp> PuffTheMagic_: 45422 Jan 22 01:20:59 <PuffTheMagic_> hmm Jan 22 01:21:21 <PuffTheMagic_> i should just have to rebuild ecore right? Jan 22 01:21:34 <xcomp> yeah Jan 22 01:21:43 <xcomp> just ecore_sdl, in fact Jan 22 01:21:53 <PuffTheMagic_> well ecore is 1 package in gentoo Jan 22 01:21:58 <PuffTheMagic_> i did that and it didnt help Jan 22 01:22:43 <xcomp> hmmm..... perhaps because it's a header file Jan 22 01:22:52 <xcomp> you will need to build everything that uses that headre Jan 22 01:23:21 <xcomp> what other libs does terminus use? Jan 22 01:23:28 <PuffTheMagic_> ecore and evas Jan 22 01:23:42 <PuffTheMagic_> but that header isnt an installed header though Jan 22 01:23:46 <xcomp> yeah, just rebuild the whole of ecore and you should be good Jan 22 01:24:06 <PuffTheMagic_> what if it is still calking SDLK_SEMICOLON for some reason Jan 22 01:25:32 <xcomp> http://www.rasterman.com/files/illume-01.ogv Jan 22 01:27:20 <dtzWill> xcomp: what's that? Jan 22 01:27:47 <xcomp> it's basically an entire gui environment for a mobile device Jan 22 01:27:53 <xcomp> based on efl Jan 22 01:27:56 <dtzWill> looks like it. Jan 22 01:28:00 <xcomp> but it uses X11 Jan 22 01:28:05 <dtzWill> oh sweet. ...oh x11 :( Jan 22 01:29:07 <destinal> xcomp: but it builds and runs on pre, is it using x11 libs as well as SDL or just SDL? Jan 22 01:29:30 <xcomp> destinal: illume? Jan 22 01:29:37 <destinal> oh nm Jan 22 01:29:40 <destinal> thought you meant evas Jan 22 01:29:57 <xcomp> no ... was referring to illume, which I believe depends on ecore_x Jan 22 01:30:53 <dBsooner> egaudet: you finish that Makefile? Jan 22 01:31:28 <VincentLaw> dtzWill: so any developments on vba? :D Jan 22 01:32:12 <destinal> bbl Jan 22 01:32:33 <dtzWill> VincentLaw: always ;) Jan 22 01:32:46 <dtzWill> zsoc is working on some graphics for me :) Jan 22 01:34:25 <zsoc> VincentLaw: I must say, they are pretty hideous Jan 22 01:35:51 <PuffTheMagic_> xcomp: yo it does work Jan 22 01:35:57 <PuffTheMagic_> at least on my pre it does Jan 22 01:36:02 <PuffTheMagic_> on my x86 build it wasnt Jan 22 01:36:07 <PuffTheMagic_> i will figure that out Jan 22 01:36:13 <PuffTheMagic_> xcomp: but it was the right change ;) Jan 22 01:36:17 <PuffTheMagic_> vi works :D Jan 22 01:36:58 <VincentLaw> zsoc: lol Jan 22 01:37:19 <PuffTheMagic_> rwhitby: pingers Jan 22 01:38:11 <xcomp> PuffTheMagic_: if all else fails, use a hex editor to fix the binary :p Jan 22 01:38:38 <PuffTheMagic_> it works Jan 22 01:38:43 <PuffTheMagic_> were good Jan 22 01:39:17 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic_: gu Jan 22 01:39:56 <PuffTheMagic_> rwhitby: so terminus theoretically could be built with the cross-compile thingy Jan 22 01:40:20 <PuffTheMagic_> wanna get it set up for a 0.0.1 testingfeed run? Jan 22 01:40:37 <sampson> so since the pre plus has been in the wild has anyone gotten their hands on a rom yet Jan 22 01:40:42 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic_: I don't know if you saw, but I have zero time to do anything in the next 10 days due to a business trip Jan 22 01:40:48 <PuffTheMagic_> ahhh Jan 22 01:40:51 <PuffTheMagic_> alright Jan 22 01:40:51 <sampson> lucky you Jan 22 01:40:57 <sampson> be glad you aren't on jury duty like me Jan 22 01:41:01 <PuffTheMagic_> i guess i can figure it out Jan 22 01:41:03 <rwhitby> but destinal and eguadet can set up anything needed Jan 22 01:41:39 <rwhitby> destinal has the webos-internals test feed token and egaudet has the webos-patches test feed token Jan 22 01:41:48 <rwhitby> s/token/baton/g Jan 22 01:41:49 <infobot> rwhitby meant: destinal has the webos-internals test feed baton and egaudet has the webos-patches test feed baton Jan 22 01:45:03 * xcomp gives up, decides to go home Jan 22 01:45:26 <xcomp> all the documentation I need is on one ftp server, which has mysteriously disappeared from the face of the company network Jan 22 01:45:38 <xcomp> no traces, no notification, nothing Jan 22 01:50:40 <VincentLaw> hey dtzWill Jan 22 01:50:52 <VincentLaw> do you just want the regular gameboy controls on there or do you want room for extra buttons? Jan 22 01:51:11 <VincentLaw> (by regular I mean dpad, start/select, B, A, L, R) Jan 22 01:58:52 <JohnnyPaper> ugh, darn Pre grew a crack on the side of the case - no droppage Jan 22 02:00:45 <zsoc> Oh yeah, ART WARS, bring it on! ;) Jan 22 02:01:08 <destinal-wirc1> yeah build quality issues Jan 22 02:01:12 <VincentLaw> not much of a competition :p Jan 22 02:04:19 <dBsooner> rwhitby: In theory, would this build work: http://webos.pastebin.com/d6bb026ff Jan 22 02:05:12 <destinal-wirc1> in a world of doesn't, droid does. but, uh, not multitasking Jan 22 02:05:26 <Smubeht> lol Jan 22 02:10:14 <Smubeht> i saw a lonely thread on intelliscreen for the pre. is that something that is potentially possible? Jan 22 02:10:24 <Smubeht> http://www.intelliborn.com/products.html Jan 22 02:13:43 <destinal-wirc1> maybe with a pinlock patch Jan 22 02:14:09 <destinal-wirc1> not for catalog Jan 22 02:15:39 <Smubeht> yeah expected it to be a patch Jan 22 02:16:48 <destinal-wirc1> actually Jan 22 02:17:19 <destinal-wirc1> you could do a lot with pinlock patch Jan 22 02:18:15 <destinal-wirc1> that "today" dashboard people seem to want for instance Jan 22 02:20:30 <rboatright> replace pinlock w today?! why didn't I think of that? Jan 22 02:26:00 <zsoc> Can you have two instances of novacom and two shells at the same time? Jan 22 02:27:11 <destinal-wirc1> I think two novaterms works Jan 22 02:27:56 <bhern> you can have multiple novacom/term instances Jan 22 02:30:22 <zsoc> ty Jan 22 02:34:15 <zsoc> I'm half the man you are, and you're only half a man. Jan 22 02:35:02 <Towzzer> so you are a quarter of a man? Jan 22 02:35:51 <zsoc> Towzzer: ... i was looking for someone to finish the quote, but I forget Eguy isn't around these days :P Jan 22 02:36:01 <dtzWill> VincentLaw: i was just thinking normal Jan 22 02:36:31 <Towzzer> the new office wasn't that good Jan 22 02:36:44 <Towzzer> that's a disappointing end Jan 22 02:37:47 <Towzzer> I spy with my little eye an eternal eye Jan 22 02:39:52 <zsoc> So anyone know anything about someone (greg?) making commits to the messaging plugin repo the last few days? out of nowhere? Jan 22 02:40:14 <bpadalino> greg?! Jan 22 02:40:45 <zsoc> it might be Jan 22 02:40:46 <zsoc> look at it Jan 22 02:40:46 <bpadalino> greg roll! Jan 22 02:40:55 <zsoc> but he's no here :( Jan 22 02:41:17 <bpadalino> :( Jan 22 02:46:09 <ryan_gahl> +zsoc: (mixing quotes) I'm twice as old as half of you and half as old as twice of you Jan 22 02:46:39 <ryan_gahl> I don't know your quote, just reminded me of that one Jan 22 02:47:23 <N3O9Pr> How do you all feel about "conditioning" batteries before regular usage of a device? Jan 22 02:47:40 <zsoc> I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. Jan 22 02:47:42 <grndslm> it's necessary with li-ion... i know that much Jan 22 02:47:57 <Towzzer> li-ion needs to be conditioned? Jan 22 02:48:05 <zsoc> li-ion requires very _limited_ conditioning Jan 22 02:48:10 <grndslm> yup... fully charged and fully discharged three times... Jan 22 02:48:17 <zsoc> right Jan 22 02:48:24 <grndslm> then keep topped off as much as possible, which means a touchstone should be in your future :D Jan 22 02:48:31 <grndslm> or present Jan 22 02:48:53 * zsoc has pieces of various touchstones everywhere Jan 22 02:49:02 <N3O9Pr> Just checking... Jan 22 02:49:10 <ryan_gahl> i just can't see the value in the touchstone stuff - plug in, unplug, easy shmeasy Jan 22 02:49:34 <Towzzer> yeah Jan 22 02:49:35 <N3O9Pr> I'm intrested in getting into developing, but I wanted to make sure I was doing the right thing conditioning it Jan 22 02:49:44 <Towzzer> but the connector cover is annoying Jan 22 02:49:45 <grndslm> N309Pr: some people say that monthly you should make sure to run it down to zero... but that shouldn't be a problem with the pre :) Jan 22 02:49:47 <N3O9Pr> Problem is the damn thing wont stay off though. Jan 22 02:50:08 <grndslm> won't stay off? Jan 22 02:50:08 <Towzzer> it's nice to drop a phone down and it's charging Jan 22 02:50:13 <Towzzer> if you are entering or leaving alot Jan 22 02:50:16 <ryan_gahl> sure, but $50 nice? Jan 22 02:50:23 <ryan_gahl> or whatever it is Jan 22 02:50:30 <grndslm> touchstone was $35 shipped a couple weeks back Jan 22 02:50:31 <zsoc> ryan_gahl: I leave/come in to my office 50+ times a day Jan 22 02:50:34 <N3O9Pr> Maybe its only because of the update, but it only charged for 30 minutes from dead and its comming back on every 10 minutes now lol Jan 22 02:50:58 <ryan_gahl> zsoc: that might be it - I'm pretty planted all day except for the gym at lunch Jan 22 02:51:38 <Towzzer> touchstone is a cool device, if you can afford it , go for it Jan 22 02:51:42 <grndslm> N309Pr: you didn't use the meta-doctor by chance, did you? Jan 22 02:51:43 <Towzzer> it's the 50$ is too much that's fine Jan 22 02:51:49 <Towzzer> it's certainly a luxery item Jan 22 02:51:55 <N3O9Pr> grndslm: Brand new phone. Jan 22 02:51:57 <ryan_gahl> so to rephrase, I haven't seen the value _for_me_ ;) Jan 22 02:52:03 <Towzzer> :D Jan 22 02:52:20 <N3O9Pr> I kinda agree that the Touchstone is Luxury... But I don't wanna ruffle any feathers.... yet. Jan 22 02:52:22 <N3O9Pr> =p Jan 22 02:52:23 <grndslm> i see the value at $35 pretty easily, but i still passed.. waiting for it to hit $20 shipped Jan 22 02:52:57 <Towzzer> I purchased it and think it's graet Jan 22 02:53:14 <Towzzer> the honest truth is, the damn cord kept going off my desk Jan 22 02:53:17 <zsoc> It's worth it for the back I feel. Jan 22 02:53:18 <ryan_gahl> it's not like the $ is a huge deal - i pay for the Mifi thing monthly just in case i need it when i do go on the road - just that i'm _always_ with my lappy Jan 22 02:53:19 <Towzzer> when not plugged into the pre Jan 22 02:53:22 <grndslm> real reason i passed is because i've got this $3 case that kicks butt... Jan 22 02:53:28 <grndslm> case trumps touchstone Jan 22 02:54:08 <ryan_gahl> I would like a nice matte case though ;) Jan 22 02:54:35 <ryan_gahl> er, backplate i mean (touchstone is matte backplate right?) Jan 22 02:54:44 <grndslm> yup Jan 22 02:54:51 <Towzzer> it's a nice back Jan 22 02:55:02 <ryan_gahl> hate all the constant fingerprints Jan 22 02:55:12 <grndslm> http://www.amazon.com/Black-Rubber-Snap-Cell-Protector/dp/B002A1CO38/ref=pd_sim_cps_2 Jan 22 02:55:17 <grndslm> there's the $3 case Jan 22 02:55:38 <N3O9Pr> Is it any good? Jan 22 02:55:38 <grndslm> wonder if you could order 10 for only $0.20 extra?? Jan 22 02:55:43 <grndslm> i like it Jan 22 02:56:02 <Towzzer> yeah then 6$ shipping each Jan 22 02:56:03 <zsoc> grndslm: gesture area work with that thing? Jan 22 02:56:05 <grndslm> kinda tacky when i first saw it... because the insides are still white Jan 22 02:56:14 <grndslm> Towzzer: no... $3 shipped Jan 22 02:56:20 <grndslm> but $0.02 for the case Jan 22 02:56:38 <grndslm> so... 10 cases *should* = $0.20 extra Jan 22 02:56:47 <N3O9Pr> I wasn't going to come in here for subjective stuff and bother you guys, but whats a good case for the pre that takes care of the screen as well... Or is that asking too much? Opinions on best case(s) regardless. Jan 22 02:56:50 <grndslm> but at worst... still $3 max per case Jan 22 02:57:53 <grndslm> i like this snap on case because it's ridiculously cheap... keeps everything protected (have dropped it a few times already and no damage to phone)... and it hinders no functionality of the phone whatsoever Jan 22 02:58:12 <N3O9Pr> Wait thats that cheap one I saw. Jan 22 02:58:18 <ryan_gahl> N309Pr: can't help ya, been caseless since day 1 Jan 22 02:58:19 <N3O9Pr> Does it actually fit well? Jan 22 02:58:24 <Towzzer> the touchstone is a pure luxery device but it's cool and I like it Jan 22 02:58:25 <grndslm> yea... there's a lotta online stores that sell that case Jan 22 02:58:30 <Towzzer> i recommend it for long term pre owners Jan 22 02:58:31 <grndslm> i actually bought it from somewhere else, but i'm sure it's the same Jan 22 02:58:34 <Towzzer> who have a relationship with their pre Jan 22 02:58:37 <N3O9Pr> ryan_gahl: Heard, Thanks. Any regrets; however? Jan 22 02:58:38 <Towzzer> a special kind Jan 22 02:59:12 <grndslm> my pre is so special that it's in my hand all the time and will likely drop at any given moment... therefor, i need the case! Jan 22 02:59:17 <ryan_gahl> no regrets, never liked cases for any of my phones - added bulk Jan 22 02:59:30 <grndslm> i like my phone :) Jan 22 02:59:34 <N3O9Pr> I have that special kind of relationship that involves the need to root. Jan 22 02:59:51 <grndslm> well, that's already been done for you **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jan 22 02:59:57 2010