**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jan 22 02:59:57 2010 Jan 22 03:00:08 ##THIS CONVERSATION: >> everyone has an opinion about many thing << (comment for backlog reading) Jan 22 03:00:21 s/thing/things/ Jan 22 03:00:21 zsoc meant: ##THIS CONVERSATION: >> everyone has an opinion about many things << (comment for backlog reading) Jan 22 03:00:22 bah i lose Jan 22 03:00:38 way to dirty up the log, zsoc ;) Jan 22 03:02:46 ryan_gahl: I agree... I just never thought my phone would break, and it took so much abuse, but alas one day, it just fell the right way. Jan 22 03:03:11 ...Now its gonna be a FrankenWinMostine lol. Jan 22 03:03:43 i hope Win means Winner Jan 22 03:04:18 WinMo == Winner Mo'linux Jan 22 03:04:20 ? Jan 22 03:04:24 Win equals my infatuation with HTC untill the dropped the ball. Jan 22 03:04:51 * ryan_gahl slaps N3O9Pr around a bit with a large trout Jan 22 03:05:00 ROFFL, I haven't heard that in so long Jan 22 03:05:07 Yeah it was a WM6 Jan 22 03:06:25 i'm relatively new to linux, so don't get me wrong, but WinMo has always, always... always sucked Jan 22 03:06:48 anyone ever figure out how to make ajax requests to https hosts with self signed certificates? Jan 22 03:06:50 is it impossible? Jan 22 03:07:08 ryan_gahl: I don't disagree with you at all... Untill recently we didn't have too many options for Nix based mobiles though Jan 22 03:07:56 ryan_gahl: I am also relatively new to nix as well... I've been on and off, and I came back for exploitation and exploration studies Jan 22 03:08:13 grrr damn nick clipping Jan 22 03:08:48 Rubin: I am pretty sure thats in the AJAX Hacks O'Rielly book Jan 22 03:09:12 I remember seeing something about Utilizing AJAX with SSL/PKI Jan 22 03:09:46 Rubin: ...But thats all I can offer... I hope it helps in some way Jan 22 03:10:06 only if i happen to find someone with that book ;) thanks tho Jan 22 03:10:07 So is there a general topic here, or are you guys pretty loose? Jan 22 03:10:34 Rubin: I have read more books at the bookstore then I've bought ;P Jan 22 03:11:07 might be easier to buy a real certificate :/ Jan 22 03:11:09 the general topic is hacking, cracking, and webos packing Jan 22 03:11:37 +zsoc: ping Jan 22 03:12:20 yes Jan 22 03:12:50 N3O9Pr: the general topic is in the /topic Jan 22 03:12:52 grndslm: Cool Cool... Is there any kinda prejudice against skiddys, or newbies here? Cause I've been doing stuff for a long long time, and I am still both. Jan 22 03:13:07 rgahl_ogreportin: wa Jan 22 03:13:17 rwhitby: I have notcied that the /topic tends to always be outdated to the clientel of most chans lol Jan 22 03:13:35 N3O9Pr: I keep it up to date Jan 22 03:13:38 N3O9Pr: have any of us made fun of you yet? Jan 22 03:13:44 hehehe Jan 22 03:13:51 * Rubin was about to make fun of your nick but then you were helpful so he didnt ;) Jan 22 03:13:57 zsoc: Just wondering mang. lol. Jan 22 03:14:05 so i'm using cmake to build ogre 1.7 - and i'm about to look in the scummvm package for help on this too, but just curious is there are any pointers for making sure i'm compiling to the right target Jan 22 03:14:05 N309Pr: everyone is loved here :) Jan 22 03:14:17 Rubin: ...He He.. .But that would be funny... Cause you think its something.. But its not. Jan 22 03:14:25 grndslm: Cool. Jan 22 03:15:17 Rubin: Think subscript Jan 22 03:15:45 i dont know my chemestry Jan 22 03:15:49 rwhitby: what's the diff between "bypass activation" and "remove carrier check" in the meta-doc?? Jan 22 03:15:57 don't know your spelling either :P Jan 22 03:16:08 true-er words were never spoken Jan 22 03:16:14 Rubin: =P Just defending myself in the sake of self-preservation lol... Jan 22 03:16:33 So final word, no bad words about that cheap case? Jan 22 03:16:33 regarding self signed certs may be sol Jan 22 03:16:37 rwhitby: what about "remove model check"?? ... and "disable modem update" is to disable OTA updates, right? Jan 22 03:17:01 but you can get free signed certs Jan 22 03:17:37 wonder if webkit/palm supports them? last I heard they f'd up their cert chain Jan 22 03:17:56 ipsca you mean right? Jan 22 03:17:57 or peobably trust the self cert in advance Jan 22 03:18:09 in cert mgr Jan 22 03:18:22 theres a cert manager? Jan 22 03:18:53 I've used certs issued from a self-signed CA with no problems, both for web and email access. Jan 22 03:19:20 with ajax? Jan 22 03:19:25 rwhitby: cert manager to install? Jan 22 03:19:32 destinal-wirc1: yep Jan 22 03:19:37 that is, an app doing ajax to the https host Jan 22 03:19:49 Rubin: no, built-in browser and email client Jan 22 03:19:57 rwhitby: did you get my link? Can I not have VERSIONS = in an obsolete? Does it have to be just ONE version? Jan 22 03:19:59 Rubin: cert manage is in device info menu Jan 22 03:20:09 dBsooner: I have no idea Jan 22 03:20:13 OH Jan 22 03:20:17 I think if it's trusted in cert mgr you can ajax right? Jan 22 03:20:27 grndslm: remove carrier check removes the check on which carrier the doctor is for and which carrier is your phone for Jan 22 03:20:28 let me test again Jan 22 03:20:36 i didnt know that was there Jan 22 03:20:51 grndslm: remove model check removes the check which stops a p100eww doctor being run on a p100ueu Jan 22 03:21:31 ahh... i had those confused then Jan 22 03:21:35 grndslm: disable modem update sets the ForceModemUpdate setting to false. I believe it will still update the the firmware version is newer Jan 22 03:21:37 still don't really understand remove carrier check Jan 22 03:22:12 grndslm: remove carrier check also removes any carrier customisations, e.g. if you remove the sprint carrier check it also removes the sprint apps Jan 22 03:22:22 ahh... k Jan 22 03:22:47 rwhitby: and force modem update is set to false, yet it still updates if the version is newer? Jan 22 03:22:47 those are designed for when one carrier has a new version out, but you want to load it on a different carrier device Jan 22 03:22:50 isn't that faulty logic? Jan 22 03:23:08 grndslm: the 'force' is the important bit Jan 22 03:23:23 something can still happen even if it's not forced Jan 22 03:23:43 probably to really disable modem update we need to edit doctor ore Jan 22 03:23:44 more Jan 22 03:23:52 destinal-wirc1: probably. Jan 22 03:24:02 how do you disable modem updating now?? Jan 22 03:24:11 chmod -x /etc/something/or/another Jan 22 03:24:27 what I did is basically a time saver if you're repeatedly flashing the same doctor to the same device. if the modem firmware is up to date it skips flashing it Jan 22 03:24:43 grndslm: the logic is all in the Makefile Jan 22 03:24:48 does simply having my package built from /svr/preware/cross-compile/packages/someDir do the trick, or is there also a makefile magik i need Jan 22 03:25:32 rwhitby: yea yea... but i'm not that great at scripting, really i can get the gist of what's happening, but I don't understand where it's pulling that ForceModemUpdate command and such Jan 22 03:25:39 i mean, i know it's somewhere on webos.tar, i think Jan 22 03:25:47 i'll have to try and read the script one day Jan 22 03:26:17 BTW, how do i pull the source for preware?? Jan 22 03:26:28 Whats up with all the .01 items at Amazon... What does it seem like a really bad idea. Jan 22 03:27:05 because you don't want to promote the Asian economies?? Jan 22 03:27:51 Hrmm... Worried about this .01 USB cable... Can't be very safe Jan 22 03:27:57 N3O9Pr: one thing we do ask is that off-topic discussion go to #webos-watercooler, so that it doesn't clog the logs for those who read them in other timezones Jan 22 03:28:26 grndslm: git clone git://git.webos-internals.org/applications/preware.git Jan 22 03:28:43 nice... thanks! Jan 22 03:28:54 rwhitby: Heard, Thank you. Not a problem at all. Jan 22 03:29:22 Sorry. Jan 22 03:29:29 no worries Jan 22 03:30:28 oops Jan 22 03:31:04 hrm. Jan 22 03:32:28 so Ajax.Request with https calls the 'success' callback, but with nothing in it. it works with a real cert, and i have added this cert to the certs thing and can browse to it without prompting Jan 22 03:32:39 wonder if theres a trick or something Jan 22 03:34:29 are my questions just too basic? Jan 22 03:34:43 zsoc: ping Jan 22 03:35:13 i'm cool if the answer is "RTFM" Jan 22 03:38:26 destinal-wirc1: ping Jan 22 03:41:00 PuffTheMagic_: ya? Jan 22 03:41:18 rgahl_ogreportin: i'm sorry, i think everyone is just busy Jan 22 03:41:21 rgahl_ogreportin: what are you trying to do? Jan 22 03:41:27 rgahl_ogreportin: what's the context? Jan 22 03:41:34 zsoc: you know anything about the cross-build repo? Jan 22 03:41:47 PuffTheMagic_: the WIDK? I know a bit... destinal knows more. whats up? Jan 22 03:42:09 zsoc: wanna get Terminus building on it Jan 22 03:42:18 and packaging Jan 22 03:42:38 PuffTheMagic_: oh, honestly, the building part it surprisingly easy Jan 22 03:42:50 the packaging part.... not my thing Jan 22 03:42:58 rod would suggest.. palm-build? Jan 22 03:43:22 no no never mind Jan 22 03:43:48 destinal-wirc1: you! Jan 22 03:43:52 destinal: no u Jan 22 03:43:55 i can try to build it now if you like Jan 22 03:43:58 :) Jan 22 03:44:04 no worries on the delay thing, was sincerely just checking to see if i'm too green there Jan 22 03:44:05 so.. Jan 22 03:44:21 I'm trial and error-ing my way through building ogre1.7 Jan 22 03:44:31 * destinal checks logs for what he missed Jan 22 03:44:42 destinal: idk enough about the cross-build and autobuilder to get an ipkg created based on stuff built from crossbuild Jan 22 03:44:58 and using cmake Jan 22 03:45:36 so, you know, i can definitly plod along (and will) - just was hoping for any pointers/time savers any1 might have Jan 22 03:46:07 rgahl_ogreportin: ogre is a big undertaking Jan 22 03:46:15 that's my project Jan 22 03:46:18 :) Jan 22 03:46:41 i talked to the dude already that did the iphone port - so once i actually get into code-land i'm solid Jan 22 03:46:59 it's the toolchain stuff i have a learning arc with Jan 22 03:47:14 PuffTheMagic_: ah, I can help there Jan 22 03:47:30 PuffTheMagic_: you have a git repo? Jan 22 03:47:36 yeah Jan 22 03:47:41 applications/terminus.git Jan 22 03:47:55 it depends on ecore and evas from cross-build Jan 22 03:48:50 Templarian: ping Jan 22 03:49:52 PuffTheMagic_: you should be able to copy the ioquake3 Makefile in cross-compile/packages/ Jan 22 03:50:21 add a DEPENDS at the top for the libs it requires Jan 22 03:50:48 and give the right flags to configure or make in sb2 to point it to /usr/local inside the scratchbox Jan 22 03:51:26 what about the ipk part Jan 22 03:52:25 ... srry just peaking back in here - ok so this is the stuff i was asking for too :) Jan 22 03:52:25 PuffTheMagic_: what? Jan 22 03:52:33 sweet Jan 22 03:52:40 Templarian: i missed your pms the other day Jan 22 03:52:50 i see your example icon Jan 22 03:52:53 not bad for now Jan 22 03:53:02 "PMs" Jan 22 03:53:13 Templarian: and to answer your question Jan 22 03:53:30 PuffTheMagic_: I cloned the repo but didn't get anything Jan 22 03:53:32 its not called Terminal cause a progral called Terminal exists Jan 22 03:53:33 I had a question... Jan 22 03:53:54 Oh should it replace Terminal? Jan 22 03:54:03 Or are they not the same thing? Jan 22 03:54:03 no Jan 22 03:54:09 they are not Jan 22 03:54:28 PuffTheMagic_: for the ipkg part, we haven't done any packaging of new libs yet Jan 22 03:54:32 destinal: the repo is not empty Jan 22 03:54:32 I've only used it once to get doom to work, nvm then. Jan 22 03:54:38 PuffTheMagic_: git clone no good Jan 22 03:54:53 reset and clear commands dont work properly Jan 22 03:54:56 there's git log entries Jan 22 03:54:57 oops Jan 22 03:55:02 but no files Jan 22 03:55:20 look on gitweb Jan 22 03:55:23 there are files Jan 22 03:55:26 PuffTheMagic_: so you can probably package the new libs along with terminus until get separate lib packaging set up Jan 22 03:56:06 my git is acting really strangely Jan 22 03:59:22 all I get is .git dirs Jan 22 04:00:25 anyone have any ideas? Jan 22 04:00:34 odd Jan 22 04:01:24 Anyone know Zinge? Does he come here? Jan 22 04:02:18 Templarian: feel free to make it sweeter ;) Jan 22 04:02:57 You are aware I just copied the palm logo and made it into a square right? Jan 22 04:03:02 PuffTheMagic_: ok, now it's fine Jan 22 04:03:21 PuffTheMagic_: for a second I thought you wanted Templarian to make you a sweater Jan 22 04:03:22 I'll think of something nice later. Jan 22 04:03:47 ~seen Zinge Jan 22 04:03:50 zinge was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 19d 17h 33m 1s ago, saying: 'wolfenstein?'. Jan 22 04:04:18 destinal, Jan 22 04:04:26 destinal: I think it's safe to go with probably dead. Jan 22 04:04:30 egaudet, Jan 22 04:04:32 I may have possible workaround Jan 22 04:04:51 I'm afraid I have to kill you. Jan 22 04:04:55 wait, wrong plot Jan 22 04:04:58 lol Jan 22 04:05:06 egaudet: workaround? Jan 22 04:05:11 for the term crash Jan 22 04:05:20 sure, explain Jan 22 04:05:27 rwhitby: can you start the autobuilder when you get a momento? Jan 22 04:05:31 I found what looks like a "bug" but uhh Jan 22 04:09:16 destinal: i just pushed something to the autobuilder Jan 22 04:09:20 we will see how it goes Jan 22 04:09:22 Templarian: if he was headed to castle wolfenstein he's probably dead Jan 22 04:09:31 I hear there are lots of nazis with big guns Jan 22 04:10:04 PuffTheMagic_: cool Jan 22 04:10:06 And dogs, don't forget the dogs. Jan 22 04:10:08 inglorious bastards is like... that same game Jan 22 04:10:38 i always miss the autobuilder Jan 22 04:10:45 it always builds right before i push Jan 22 04:10:47 :( Jan 22 04:10:59 lulz Jan 22 04:11:07 PuffTheMagic_: I find myself racing the clock alot Jan 22 04:11:09 non cross-compile Q: is libgl1-mesa-dev the package i want to install for basic GL testing Jan 22 04:11:15 i have nfc if this is gonna work Jan 22 04:11:19 "oh man.. builder kicks off in 2 minutes.. I gotta type fast" Jan 22 04:11:30 ##NOTICE: A LOT is two words, that is all. Jan 22 04:11:49 zsoc: yes i usually dont do i that Jan 22 04:11:53 sorry Jan 22 04:11:54 zsoc: im a little out of it right now :D Jan 22 04:12:08 zsoc: breaking the new place Jan 22 04:12:12 PuffTheMagic_: I HAZ TEH VODKA Jan 22 04:12:13 zsoc: finally got cable today Jan 22 04:12:39 cable is nice too Jan 22 04:12:43 got a new reciever for my audio system Jan 22 04:12:46 with hdmi inputs Jan 22 04:12:47 wow, it's nuts outside today Jan 22 04:13:11 my state is under a tornado warning, flood warning, and blizzard warning Jan 22 04:13:33 stay safe man Jan 22 04:13:36 rgahl_ogreportin: opengl will not work for you Jan 22 04:13:42 rgahl_ogreportin: you need opengl-es Jan 22 04:14:03 and many functions of opengl do not exist in opengl-es Jan 22 04:14:05 ok - already installed SDL Jan 22 04:14:19 will find opengl-es package Jan 22 04:14:37 my receiver is the most expensive part of my home theatre Jan 22 04:14:42 rgahl_ogreportin: it's frequently a significant porting effort, if you're unfamiliar you probably need to buy the opengl-es book Jan 22 04:14:51 i have one Jan 22 04:15:02 oh Jan 22 04:15:05 the worst is past my side of town thankfully Jan 22 04:15:08 cool, then Jan 22 04:15:16 plus i'm a lifetime coder - i'll get this shiz :) Jan 22 04:15:17 :) Jan 22 04:15:27 rgahl_ogreportin: avoid quads and display lists :P Jan 22 04:15:52 embrace programmable shaders and texture arrays :D Jan 22 04:15:59 really cool thing is, someone already did the iphone port Jan 22 04:16:01 so Jan 22 04:16:05 rgahl_ogreportin: awesome Jan 22 04:16:22 then they did most of the work already Jan 22 04:16:26 exactly Jan 22 04:16:43 which i'm more than happy to piggyback Jan 22 04:16:55 that's the beauty of open source Jan 22 04:16:59 but i have some extra stuff i want to add Jan 22 04:17:07 si si! Jan 22 04:17:15 OSS FTW Jan 22 04:22:26 man autobuilder is slow tonight Jan 22 04:23:06 are you guys going against ES 2.0, btw Jan 22 04:23:10 there it goes Jan 22 04:26:11 rgahl_ogreportin: 2.0 when possible, 1.1 when necessary Jan 22 04:26:31 all our stuff is I believe 2.0 Jan 22 04:26:49 a lot of the commercial games are using 1.1 Jan 22 04:27:09 egaudet: ping Jan 22 04:28:36 dBsooner, pong Jan 22 04:28:46 egaudet: good news and semi-bad news Jan 22 04:28:53 PuffTheMagic_: have you looked at all at auto-pause when not full-screen and downclocking the CPU when full-screen? Jan 22 04:29:02 not uyet Jan 22 04:29:43 bad news first Jan 22 04:29:49 egaudet: good news is our supercedes works.. i was able to try to install the OLD misc-no-auto-off-while-charging.. and it wanted the depends.. Jan 22 04:29:53 Good news: depends installed Jan 22 04:30:10 bad news: the actual "obsoleted" package wouldn't isntall Jan 22 04:30:18 ipkg log doesn't show an error. Jan 22 04:30:41 but, the new one that was the "depends" stays installed after the error. :) Jan 22 04:30:47 so it's really not a bad thing. Jan 22 04:31:12 huh? Jan 22 04:31:16 lol Jan 22 04:31:24 open preware Jan 22 04:31:41 open avaialble, open patches, open obsolete Jan 22 04:31:54 install the Misc: No Auto-Off While Charging Jan 22 04:31:56 Depends: , org.webosinternals.patches.screen-lock-no-auto-off-while-charging Jan 22 04:32:00 right Jan 22 04:32:11 -space- -comma- -space- Jan 22 04:32:16 doh Jan 22 04:32:27 not saying that is causing issue but Jan 22 04:32:30 cool on the 2.0 - got the programmer's guide, dying to try some shader coding Jan 22 04:32:31 its not Jan 22 04:33:56 still installing all the dependencies.. POCO looks cool Jan 22 04:35:56 rwhitby: something isnt right about my packaging Jan 22 04:36:02 rwhitby: everything seems right to me Jan 22 04:36:11 made mistake of thinking ubuntu is small - running on 8GB VirtualBox drive... mounted another 32GB as soon as i realized I only had like 2GB left after OS install Jan 22 04:36:40 * rgahl_ogreportin slaps rgahl_ogreportin around a bit with a large trout Jan 22 04:37:44 75% of linux kernel code is now paid developers http://apcmag.com/linux-now-75-corporate.htm -- who says open source doesn't pay/ Jan 22 04:37:47 ? Jan 22 04:38:04 rgahl_ogreportin: you're supposed to install _server_ edition :> Jan 22 04:38:49 lol, now you tell me Jan 22 04:39:15 truth is, i wanted to evaluate it as a desktop too Jan 22 04:39:22 loving it Jan 22 04:40:31 destinal, I'd guess 99% of linux kernel code is from "paid developers". They must all have jobs :P Jan 22 04:41:44 yeah, "paid developers" is a little nebulous. Jan 22 04:42:13 bsneed: people whose companies pay them to work on linux kernel Jan 22 04:42:19 good thing "paid developers" and "open source" can co-exist Jan 22 04:42:20 purposely, mind Jan 22 04:42:36 75% of the linux kernel was done directly for corporate profit Jan 22 04:42:45 destinal: unlike the companies that pay developers to work on webos-internals ... Jan 22 04:42:53 rwhitby: lol Jan 22 04:43:39 but then again, I believe that 75% number is calculated based on commit code logs Jan 22 04:43:55 maybe the "paid" guys just have lots of bugs that have to keep fixing and resubmitting :P Jan 22 04:44:01 lol Jan 22 04:44:04 good point Jan 22 04:44:06 "Forget lofty ideals about the open-source community: most Linux kernel code is written by paid developers at major corporations." They seem to feel lofty ideals and getting paid are mutually exclusive. Jan 22 04:44:24 I'd say it's a triumph of lofty ideals Jan 22 04:44:35 Ya, seriously. Jan 22 04:44:59 we made this stuff so great that companies use it so much they feel that investing into it improves their business Jan 22 04:45:09 so they'll pay us to work on it more Jan 22 04:45:18 proving the OSS model rather than debunking it ;) Jan 22 04:45:44 why won't my printf's go to the screen from termplugin! Jan 22 04:45:51 Surprised that article isn't by Matt Assay orsomething Jan 22 04:46:00 egaudet: stop LunaSysMgr; LunaSysMgr Jan 22 04:46:10 and make sure you built it without -DNDEBUG Jan 22 04:46:34 destinal, yea I have Luna in foreground Jan 22 04:46:40 but my straight printf's aren't working Jan 22 04:46:45 I must be building or copying wrong Jan 22 04:46:55 I always fprintf stderr Jan 22 04:46:55 it goes in /usr/lib/BrowserPlugins/ right? Jan 22 04:47:05 Luna hogs stderr Jan 22 04:47:23 yes Jan 22 04:47:26 LunaSysMgr >> mylog (sep. window tail -f mylog) Jan 22 04:47:35 but you have to restart LunaSysMgr if you replace it Jan 22 04:48:03 maybe I should just 2 >> /dev/null Jan 22 04:48:07 egaudet: honestly I've never tried that. Jan 22 04:48:14 I just 2>&1 | grep Jan 22 04:48:45 but all of this still doesn't explain why my rebuilt plugin isn't taking Jan 22 04:48:52 night ya'll Jan 22 04:48:58 I just stick all my 2's and 1's in /dev/random... that way when i pull data it's salted... more randomly Jan 22 04:49:15 zsoc: you use 2's and 1's instead of 1's and 0's? Jan 22 04:49:20 are you on the upgrade? Jan 22 04:49:36 he's a bit shifted Jan 22 04:49:45 21112211122221112 Jan 22 04:50:50 destinal, does the plugin get cached or something? Jan 22 04:51:06 egaudet: did you stop LunaSysMgr and start it again? Jan 22 04:51:12 yea Jan 22 04:51:19 don't think there's any cachine Jan 22 04:51:21 caching Jan 22 04:51:43 make sure your .so is in the right place and it's not a symlink Jan 22 04:51:49 well this has to be one of those "it's late" problems that is all my fault Jan 22 04:52:19 I apparently don't know here termplugin resides? Jan 22 04:53:21 /usr/lib/BrowserPlugins/termplugin.so Jan 22 04:53:37 yeah well the ghost has taken over my pre then Jan 22 04:53:45 because i removed that Jan 22 04:53:48 and terminal still works Jan 22 04:53:53 eproiertq234? Jan 22 04:54:27 find / -name termplugin.so | xargs rm Jan 22 04:54:29 reboot Jan 22 04:54:35 if fails, excorcism Jan 22 04:54:54 I sell holy water at very reasonable rates by mail order Jan 22 04:54:54 or check you're not talking to the emulator ... Jan 22 04:54:57 the one in /media/cryptofs still there Jan 22 04:55:03 I ls from terminal on my pre Jan 22 04:55:12 and it shows that it's not in /usr/lib/BrowserPlugins Jan 22 04:55:15 egaudet: remove that one just in case Jan 22 04:55:22 unless it's picking up termplugin.so.orig Jan 22 04:55:27 egaudet: cool, maybe Palm loads it from both now? Jan 22 04:55:36 I'm starting to wonder if plugins can now be loaded from cryptofs despite what the conf file says Jan 22 04:55:48 it says BrowserServerPlugins can be loaded there Jan 22 04:55:56 not sure what the difference is between that and BrowserPlugins Jan 22 04:56:11 well I'm rebooting to verify Jan 22 04:56:17 because if so then terminal in app cat! Jan 22 04:56:52 Absolutely. Welcome to the PDK's distribution model Jan 22 04:57:12 rwhitby: you asked me this question before and I said only BrowserServerPlugins but I'm no longer sure there's a difference or what it would be Jan 22 04:57:25 oh yeah.. rwhitby: tweeted more patches. now I am off to bed. night. Jan 22 04:57:53 destinal: I still can't believe the type:game ipk distribution method Jan 22 04:58:21 rwhitby: well if you can load .so's from /media/cryptofs, that's far from the end of it Jan 22 04:58:35 honestly, Luna takes just far too long Jan 22 04:59:05 destinal: can we run ipkgservice through NPAPI without needing a visible window? Jan 22 04:59:14 rwhitby: quite probably Jan 22 04:59:29 rwhitby: if this works, then absolutely Jan 22 04:59:44 rwhitby: plugins don't need a visible window Jan 22 04:59:50 did they change anything with NAND flash/controller, processor speed/scaling/power management, or RAM bandwidth/latency in the pre plus? Jan 22 04:59:53 so go submit to app cat destinal Jan 22 04:59:56 root@palm-webos-device:/# find / -name termplugin\* Jan 22 05:00:06 /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/lib/BrowserPlugins/termplugin.so Jan 22 05:00:44 there goes the farm Jan 22 05:01:08 egaudet: is that confirmation it works after reboot, just click terminal icon? Jan 22 05:01:13 yea Jan 22 05:01:17 wow Jan 22 05:01:20 want a screenshot of terminal doing the find? Jan 22 05:01:25 heh no Jan 22 05:01:28 :p Jan 22 05:01:45 egaudet: can you move that, reboot, and verify it doesn't work, then move it back, re-open terminal and verify it does work? Jan 22 05:02:00 * destinal goes to verify on emulator Jan 22 05:02:32 "Termplugin is not installed. This app is unusable without it" Jan 22 05:02:46 * rwhitby gives up trying to keep Palm's platform secure, cause they're just shooting holes in it everywhere themselves. Jan 22 05:02:47 rwhitby, verified Jan 22 05:03:04 rwhitby: it's no worse than windows mobile! Jan 22 05:03:07 :) Jan 22 05:03:17 yeah, that's a glowing recommendation Jan 22 05:03:27 I was thinking a slogan Jan 22 05:04:10 "Never miss a thing", "including malware" Jan 22 05:04:24 rwhitby: but there's that bright li... Jan 22 05:04:27 uh Jan 22 05:05:03 what was I saying? :P Jan 22 05:05:56 removed .so from /usr/lib on emulator, rebooting Jan 22 05:06:53 so the bright line only extends to the edge of the app catalog now. homebrew is basically the wild west again, thanks to Palm. Jan 22 05:07:03 * rwhitby bbl Jan 22 05:07:14 rwhitby: uh, isn't there "rapid release?" Jan 22 05:07:30 can't you create an app and get an appid immediately? Jan 22 05:08:58 yeah Jan 22 05:09:04 brief security review though Jan 22 05:09:11 oh, reeeeallly? Jan 22 05:09:13 like no type: game Jan 22 05:09:24 I dunno if rwhitby said that was automated or Jan 22 05:09:24 before the ID exists? Jan 22 05:09:31 or before you are given it Jan 22 05:09:34 yea I think it's probably automated Jan 22 05:09:46 I dunno how it all works Jan 22 05:09:52 well, let's see.. Jan 22 05:13:42 egaudet: can you check something for me? Jan 22 05:13:53 yea Jan 22 05:14:00 grep cryptofs /etc/palm/* Jan 22 05:14:02 on your pre Jan 22 05:14:22 nothing Jan 22 05:14:30 wha? Jan 22 05:14:36 should be something Jan 22 05:14:55 or your apps wouldn't work Jan 22 05:15:01 oh yea i grep'd crpytofs Jan 22 05:15:28 /etc/palm/browser-app.conf:UserInstalledPluginsPath=/media/cryptofs/apps/usr/lib/BrowserServerPlugins Jan 22 05:15:28 /etc/palm/luna.conf:ApplicationPath=/usr/lib/luna/applications:/var/luna/applications:/var/usr/lib/luna/applications:/usr/palm/applications:/var/usr/palm/applications:/media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications Jan 22 05:15:56 ok, so I don't understand how it found the .so outside /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/lib/BrowserServerPlugins Jan 22 05:16:11 really strange Jan 22 05:19:56 ok so I confirmed on the emulator, behavior seems to exclude cryptofs for browserplugins such as termplugin Jan 22 05:20:08 let me try a pre Jan 22 05:21:28 destinal, I get a lot of /opt/bin/ssh-agent processes stuck around that terminal doesn't clean up on exit Jan 22 05:22:08 egaudet: is the shell still running from the terminal process? Jan 22 05:22:19 no Jan 22 05:22:32 odd, you'd expect you'd get cascade kills, right? Jan 22 05:22:33 well actually Jan 22 05:22:35 yea I think it is Jan 22 05:22:54 I always exit before throwing it away personally Jan 22 05:23:28 that was reported fixed a while ago but if it still exists we can fix it Jan 22 05:25:43 so one more thing we have to figure out is, what constitutes "UserInstalledPlugins" Jan 22 05:26:46 oh, if they're browserserverplugins, this is paving the way for a flash download Jan 22 05:27:03 browserserverplugins are things that plug in to the browser within the browser, i think. Jan 22 05:27:03 So what ticked off rod so bad? Jan 22 05:27:21 if it's malware i'm in, lets go Jan 22 05:28:47 zsoc: ok, so it looks like there's an issue with 1.3.5.1 where it SEEMS to embed any plugin in /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/lib/BrowserPlugins Jan 22 05:29:01 guess where we stage our termplugin.so before the postinst copies it to /usr/lib/BrowserPlugins? Jan 22 05:29:30 destinal: i'm clearly missing the point Jan 22 05:29:49 zsoc: so, what it means is, any app can include its own plugin and do whatever as root Jan 22 05:30:00 er.. any app with a postinst? Jan 22 05:30:02 nope Jan 22 05:30:02 oh any app Jan 22 05:30:06 ANY app Jan 22 05:30:21 hmm... er, maybe i don't understand NPAPI so much... Jan 22 05:30:30 I mean, you're limited to what those interfaces can do, right? Jan 22 05:30:31 zsoc: not many here have played with it. I have Jan 22 05:30:36 zsoc: nope Jan 22 05:30:57 so.. when do we get 1.3.5.3? Jan 22 05:31:09 hopefully not before i can farm everyone's photos Jan 22 05:31:14 * zsoc releases a wackamole game Jan 22 05:31:43 who is this security whatzits name? brian something? Jan 22 05:31:48 Her n Jan 22 05:31:50 Hern Jan 22 05:32:08 Hmm.. so do we want publicity for this? does that fix it? Jan 22 05:32:39 zsoc: people read this log Jan 22 05:32:44 yeah but not enough Jan 22 05:32:53 * zsoc has his finger on the josh button Jan 22 05:33:25 engadget ftw? then i'd be webos CRACKER extraordinaire ;) Jan 22 05:33:34 This is just silly, don't mean to make light, sorry Jan 22 05:33:36 zsoc: rapid release apps anyone? :) Jan 22 05:34:15 * lemketron catches up... Jan 22 05:34:20 I'm not sure if this issue was introduced in 1.3.5 or 1.3.5.1 Jan 22 05:34:27 but it doesn't SEEM to be in the emulator image Jan 22 05:34:31 how do you know it didn't work before? Jan 22 05:34:47 zsoc: /media/cryptofs didn't EXIST before 1.3.5 Jan 22 05:34:57 er, but /var did.. Jan 22 05:35:05 same garbage different location.. Jan 22 05:35:14 yeah but we don't know it worked there Jan 22 05:35:22 it might have the whole time Jan 22 05:35:29 I suspect Jan 22 05:35:38 that this was added more recently Jan 22 05:35:45 to support PDK perhaps Jan 22 05:35:48 i mean homebrew is pretty safe, in the affect that people like us see things that get in the feeds Jan 22 05:35:58 not that we have authority to enforce anything Jan 22 05:36:34 i guess i don't understand the extent of what npapi can do... plugins are plugins... not services Jan 22 05:36:41 zsoc: plugins are binary programs Jan 22 05:36:50 ahhh Jan 22 05:36:52 they get dynamically linked into LunaSysMgr Jan 22 05:36:58 so i suppose the point is we don't know what they do :P Jan 22 05:36:58 they run as root Jan 22 05:37:36 right, so like I said to rob, it's no worse than windows mobile, just know that anything you download could do anything at all to your device Jan 22 05:37:41 s/rob/rod/ Jan 22 05:37:43 destinal meant: right, so like I said to rod, it's no worse than windows mobile, just know that anything you download could do anything at all to your device Jan 22 05:37:43 typo Jan 22 05:39:56 [ $[ $RANDOM % 6 ] == 0 ] && echo *BANG!* || echo *Click* Jan 22 05:40:34 I want to do that to everyone's device. Jan 22 05:41:49 lol Jan 22 05:42:17 s/echo *BANG!*/grep -r crashurphone \/dev/ Jan 22 05:42:28 bah, something like that lol Jan 22 05:42:52 zsoc|away: I got click btw Jan 22 05:43:07 * destinal survives another day Jan 22 05:43:25 destinal: lulz, i ran the ACTUALLY version of that command once, early in my linux career. i was lucky too Jan 22 05:43:35 er.. actual Jan 22 05:43:59 destinal, it's definitely the kill -HUP Jan 22 05:44:19 eew... HUPs? where? Jan 22 05:44:31 SIGINT ftw Jan 22 05:44:40 oh, right, i'm away Jan 22 05:44:41 * zsoc|away poofs Jan 22 05:46:11 so... is terminus working? Jan 22 05:46:25 I just installed it from preware to check it out and it won't launch... Jan 22 05:47:27 yeh couldn't get it to work either Jan 22 05:47:47 Is everyone talking about Terminus? Jan 22 05:48:03 well, I jsut asked about it Jan 22 05:48:12 PuffTheMagic_: ping Jan 22 05:48:22 ~seen PuffTheMagic_ Jan 22 05:48:24 puffthemagic_ was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 1h 12m 22s ago, saying: 'rwhitby: everything seems right to me'. Jan 22 05:48:38 hrm... seems he has been away for a bit Jan 22 05:49:01 oh Jan 22 05:49:02 Oh, well what a coincidence cause I was going to ask about it too. I noticed the orange key doesn't work in it Jan 22 05:49:10 PuffTheMagic put that in the official feed? Jan 22 05:49:28 it came up in my preware Jan 22 05:49:35 gollyzila: I can't even get it to launch Jan 22 05:49:57 You tap it and nothing happens? Jan 22 05:50:22 yep... Jan 22 05:50:30 I get the notification saying that it is launching, but it never does Jan 22 05:50:38 the upstart launcher shows up in notification area Jan 22 05:50:56 yep Jan 22 05:51:07 upstart shows in the notification area, but terminus never loads Jan 22 05:51:14 launches 4 me but to a black screen Jan 22 05:51:36 i can type on it Jan 22 05:52:05 Try rebooting your phone. With me, it launches to a black screen. TO MAKE IT SHOW SOMETHING: type something unknown, like "loginn" and press enter. Jan 22 05:52:14 Then it will show writing Jan 22 05:52:20 how long did you wait after launching Jan 22 05:52:31 it has been about 10 minutes since the last time I tried Jan 22 05:52:35 yea works 4 me right away Jan 22 05:52:40 I am going to uninstall and reinstall it, then reboot phone Jan 22 05:53:13 i am on doctor phone only thing i have on my phone is preware freetether and hotspot Jan 22 05:53:31 is the old terminal in the process of being fixed? Jan 22 05:53:43 So there aren't any webos-internals people here that will post up how to use terminus? Jan 22 05:53:55 its working for Jan 22 05:53:57 me Jan 22 05:54:30 the old terminal causes luna restarts Jan 22 05:54:38 hang on... now preware is showing an update to terminus... Jan 22 05:54:47 let me try that instead of my previous plan Jan 22 05:55:21 now I don't even get the upstart notification, lol Jan 22 05:55:49 Cryptk|work that's fine cause I don't either Jan 22 05:57:11 To use Orange key, you have to HOLD it! Jan 22 05:58:01 yea that kinda sux Jan 22 05:58:34 JMyaDaGod: : how'd you get HotSpot? Jan 22 05:59:11 hmm Jan 22 05:59:28 terminus just caused a luna restart too Jan 22 06:00:33 I blame Luna Jan 22 06:00:44 It's strange that it's working sporadically with certain people. I for one do not have any CPU scaling patches Jan 22 06:01:15 * JMyaDaGod has NO patches works fine Jan 22 06:02:41 yeah no patches here Jan 22 06:03:27 I tried running top command and then put it into card view and then luna restarting Jan 22 06:10:59 tapping the gesture area shift or orange button causes a space in terminus Jan 22 06:14:09 hi all Jan 22 06:15:51 destinal: does terminus use opengl surface? Jan 22 06:16:09 ameng: not at this time Jan 22 06:16:19 destinal, I think I found the bug Jan 22 06:16:30 gollyzilla: suspect people it's working with are the ones that have the PDK package installed making /usr/local Jan 22 06:16:39 should probably be a dependancy Jan 22 06:17:51 yep destinal leftover signal handler goes into the twilight zone Jan 22 06:17:59 Looks to me that the handler isn't even needed Jan 22 06:18:00 egaudet: ah Jan 22 06:18:05 SIGCHLD one, doesn't do anything Jan 22 06:19:16 the second time terminal is spawned it saves the "orig" signal handler that it set up the first time. Then when the SIGCHLD comes in it calls it, but that memory is already gone I'm assuming so seg fault Jan 22 06:19:26 running some random junk Jan 22 06:20:14 hey guys i need help. I tried to restore my phone using webOS doctor and it failed and my phone is stuck in the arrow screen with like a processor Jan 22 06:21:42 destinal, now there's also the issue of the ssh-agent. I don't know whose fault it is, but whenever terminal comes up ssh-agent is run, but the ssh-agent process is never killed Jan 22 06:22:53 hmmm Jan 22 06:23:49 destinal, it's gotta be /etc/profile Jan 22 06:25:03 /etc/profile.d/mobi.optware.openssh Jan 22 06:26:17 destinal, you got the fix or want me to push one? Jan 22 06:26:32 egaudet: please push, by all means Jan 22 06:34:30 re Jan 22 06:34:58 so does terminus work, or do we have a nonworking program in the public feed? Jan 22 06:38:55 destinal, release or no? Jan 22 06:39:23 egaudet: if you've tested it at all, go ahead, yeah :) Jan 22 06:39:33 well I swiped 10 times in a row Jan 22 06:41:39 alright pushed, should be updated in feed within 15 minutes. bed time Jan 22 06:41:53 http://webos-patches.dbsooner.com/?do=browse&webosver=1.4.0 Jan 22 06:41:57 * bhern sighs Jan 22 06:53:44 rwhitby: ping Jan 22 07:00:16 ~seen rwhitby Jan 22 07:00:19 rwhitby was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 25m 20s ago, saying: 'so does terminus work, or do we have a nonworking program in the public feed?'. Jan 22 07:00:44 cryptk|work: hi Jan 22 07:00:48 incidentally my app upload failed Jan 22 07:01:09 rwhitby: have you checked terminus? Jan 22 07:01:13 destinal: so app catalog feeds are fine, just homebrew needs to check for this stuff now Jan 22 07:01:16 destinal: nope Jan 22 07:01:52 rwhitby: I was able to get terminus to run Jan 22 07:02:02 cryptk|work: did you have the PDK package installed previously? Jan 22 07:02:11 or have your root fs mounted read-write? Jan 22 07:02:21 but it is pretty unusable... putting in a / requires holding orange and hitting slash at the same time, problem is that when you hold orange it puts in a space Jan 22 07:02:37 so you end up with paths like /media /internal /vba /roms Jan 22 07:03:00 so should it be pulled and moved to testing feed? Jan 22 07:03:07 destinal: destinal I just installed it through preware Jan 22 07:03:14 wow... double destinal lol Jan 22 07:03:40 and no I don't have the PDK package isntalled Jan 22 07:04:02 phone was on a fresh reboot when i installed it, so I would guess it was mounted ro Jan 22 07:08:19 so, been tinkering with other stuff and just did some looking around for an opengl-es package to install on my dev box for testing - haven't seen a quick path... is there one (a la libgl-mesa)? Jan 22 07:08:59 all i see on the kronos site is the .h file(s) Jan 22 07:09:43 s/k/kh/ Jan 22 07:09:44 rgahl_ogreportin meant: all i see on the khronos site is the .h file(s) Jan 22 07:17:05 oh snap, just discovered cmake-gui, just the crutch i need for the cross-compile phase :) Jan 22 07:25:02 How do I access the webos-internals testing feed with preware Jan 22 07:28:13 edektor: ~testing-feed Jan 22 07:28:18 ~testing-feed Jan 22 07:28:19 somebody said testing-feed was a means of testing new WebOS Internals products, documented at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Testing_Feeds Jan 22 07:29:07 ahh.. thank you Jan 22 07:31:48 terminus works Jan 22 07:31:52 as in Jan 22 07:32:06 as long as you're using a-z and return Jan 22 07:32:13 you're good to go :) Jan 22 07:32:22 if you need numbers or symbols your sol Jan 22 07:35:02 curious ... palm has faad2 listed on their open source page but I don't see libfaad.so in the rootfs Jan 22 07:36:37 worse still, it doesn't build :/ Jan 22 07:41:06 xcomp: many things in the opensource.palm.com packages don't build Jan 22 07:41:14 :( Jan 22 07:42:30 well, screw that, I'm fixing it Jan 22 07:47:37 excellen Jan 22 07:47:38 t Jan 22 07:48:14 Incidentally egaudet saved the day and terminal no longer crashes. Jan 22 07:48:41 His debug-fu is stronger than mine :) Jan 22 07:50:51 ~gles 1.1 Jan 22 07:51:00 d'oh Jan 22 07:51:17 i have no powerz Jan 22 07:51:27 oh yeah. apparently I somehow forgot to include the patch that makes it bulid Jan 22 07:51:30 *build Jan 22 07:51:36 bad faad2. spank spank Jan 22 07:51:37 lol Jan 22 07:51:45 evening all Jan 22 07:52:19 xcomp: bad faad2 or bad xcomp for not following the "download, patch, build" steps for palm oss stuff? Jan 22 07:52:36 ok, sorry to pester, i'm just not finding this - any1 know of a gles 1.1 and/or 2.0 package somewhere for my dev box testing (ubuntu btw) Jan 22 07:52:40 bad faad2 for containing a compile bug to begin with Jan 22 07:52:56 all palm's patch does is fix the compile bug Jan 22 07:53:01 lol Jan 22 07:53:04 that is funny Jan 22 07:53:16 rgahl_ogreportin: uh Jan 22 07:53:17 and incidentally it was identical to my fix Jan 22 07:53:51 rgahl_ogreportin: if you use the WIDK you should be able to build and link against opengl-es 20 Jan 22 07:53:52 2.0 Jan 22 07:54:14 cross compiling for ARM, then test on the pre Jan 22 07:54:36 ah ok, i was thinking of first testing on the box Jan 22 07:54:45 rgahl_ogreportin: we haven't been doing that Jan 22 07:54:49 gotcha Jan 22 07:55:06 rgahl_ogreportin: since you aren't likely to have an opengl-es 2.0 compatbile chipset and library Jan 22 07:55:26 there are emulators that exist but I imagine that's rather tricket Jan 22 07:55:32 s/ket/ky/ Jan 22 07:55:33 destinal meant: there are emulators that exist but I imagine that's rather tricky Jan 22 07:55:34 so i'd really just need to grab the .h file from khronos to compile, and maybe find an emulator then Jan 22 07:55:41 got it Jan 22 07:55:52 well the .h file is already in stage Jan 22 07:55:55 in the WIDK Jan 22 07:56:07 our sbox2 environment that is Jan 22 07:56:21 ok well, sure, wherever i get it from - i'm still on a bent to test locally Jan 22 07:56:37 ah. good luck, let me know how you do Jan 22 07:56:50 will do Jan 22 07:57:20 I'm pretty sure dtzWill is building visual basic advance without it, just testing on device, you could add a quick scp and launch in your makefile so it would be fast Jan 22 07:57:24 (cycle-wise) Jan 22 07:59:16 well ok, i'll use that as a fallback if this takes me too long ;) Jan 22 07:59:35 good luck Jan 22 07:59:41 and on that note, heading to bed Jan 22 07:59:47 night man Jan 22 07:59:48 night all Jan 22 07:59:52 thx for the help Jan 22 08:00:15 rgahl_ogreportin: you're welcome. I am really interested to see if you can test with some kind of emulation lib, that would be handy Jan 22 08:02:17 ugh...very shoddy patch for pulseaudio Jan 22 08:02:41 don't patch configure. amateurs do that Jan 22 08:04:04 and they included depcomp, ltmain.sh and everything in it Jan 22 08:13:50 destinal-sleep: did I read correctly that terminal is fixed? Jan 22 08:14:14 oh, nvm, goodnight, lol Jan 22 08:19:09 sweet, terminal is indeed fixed Jan 22 08:45:01 +destinal-sleep: not sure if you'll get this, but I can restate tomorrow too... I found the emulators from ARM, got it all setup, and it would work just fine if not for the pesky fact that I'm running ubuntu in a VirtualBox. There are some forum discussions around getting this to work, but i'll have to dig in more tomorrow. Obviously, still have the 2 options of 1)just testing on device, or 2) not running in Vi Jan 22 08:45:10 anywho... night all Jan 22 09:27:51 slow night Jan 22 09:39:39 cryptk|work: every night is a slow night :) Jan 22 09:45:30 bah useful touchscreen controls are hard :) Jan 22 09:45:46 people want things like if the finger slides off it still 'knows' what they meant Jan 22 09:45:49 bah i say! Jan 22 09:45:54 everyone can have perfect finger accuracy Jan 22 09:57:25 dtzWill: I want my controls in quake to just know what I mean by me merely touching the screen... no sliding my fingers, I just want to tap the gesture area with my index finger (so i don't block the screen) and have it do everything for me! Jan 22 09:57:35 fuck joysticks, I want ESP!!!! Jan 22 09:57:42 cryptk|work: next release Jan 22 09:57:43 cryptk|work: ;) Jan 22 09:57:55 AWESOME!!! Jan 22 09:57:58 cryptk|work: hahaha Jan 22 09:58:01 cryptk|work: i lied :( Jan 22 09:58:07 I am guessing you don't plan on having a "next release" lol Jan 22 09:58:28 cryptk|work: no not really. although some people want me to switch to type:game it seems a bit small change for a re-download hah Jan 22 09:58:46 I thought you were going to separate the data files and the binary? Jan 22 09:58:56 now would be a good time to do it... Jan 22 09:59:03 then you could have the binary, and different data files Jan 22 09:59:05 cryptk|work: that was a good idea that never happened Jan 22 09:59:11 like the Hexen ones, and whatever else Jan 22 09:59:16 cryptk|work: like expansions? xD awesome Jan 22 09:59:22 create a small launcher (like VBA) Jan 22 09:59:42 you launch it, select what game you want (populated from the data files you have) then it plays Jan 22 10:00:17 and if you can find a way to have it pull the data files from somewhere like /media/internal/QuakeEngine/ Jan 22 10:00:20 that would be great Jan 22 10:00:36 then rename the binary download on preware from Quake to 'Quake Engine' Jan 22 10:01:04 add in the description that "this is only the binary file, you will also need to download the data files for whatever game you would like to play" Jan 22 10:01:14 cryptk|work: that's a really solid idea. i've never played any of the non-id quake stuff (quake 2 was where i really got involved) Jan 22 10:01:20 throw the shareware ones on preware, and they can replace them with full versions Jan 22 10:01:22 cryptk|work: yep yep that sounds solid Jan 22 10:01:33 have at it man... there is your next big thing for quake Jan 22 10:01:38 that should shut them up for a while Jan 22 10:01:43 lol Jan 22 10:02:50 cryptk|work: haha. i didn't know people were unhappy haha Jan 22 10:03:01 they aren't Jan 22 10:03:02 lol Jan 22 10:03:10 I was just adding that in for more motivation Jan 22 10:03:13 cryptk|work: but that's a very solid idea, i'll take a crack at all that once i get vba to a point that i'm happy with it Jan 22 10:03:16 cryptk|work: haha i see Jan 22 10:11:33 dtzWill: do you still work on vga? or is this project finshed for you? Jan 22 10:11:58 hape_: still working for sure, expect good things in the future. Jan 22 10:12:06 hape_: if you're ever in doubt check the git logs :) Jan 22 10:12:08 thanks Jan 22 10:19:54 thatnks for the new treminal. to hoom ever, not sure who made it (the nick) ;) Jan 22 10:24:31 hi all Jan 22 10:30:36 JayCanuck: hows it goin Jan 22 10:30:44 pretty good Jan 22 10:48:58 have some trouble compiling with sb2 Jan 22 10:49:27 how can i add zlib libraries to sb2 Jan 22 10:51:08 when i run configure for vba i get error "cannot compile without zlib" Jan 22 10:53:25 man it's crazy the number of people who want to build vba for themselves Jan 22 10:53:28 n1ce: few things you can check Jan 22 10:53:32 can't you download zlib source and compile under sb2? Jan 22 10:53:45 n1ce: try using the 'config.sh' in vba, that'll make sure you ahve the right flags Jan 22 10:54:00 hi there Jan 22 10:54:12 n1ce: also check if (within sb2) /usr/local/lib/libz.so exists Jan 22 10:54:34 is Greg Roll here sometimes? Jan 22 10:54:41 n1ce: if it DOESN't (i'm not sure it does by default) symlink it to /usr/local/lib/libz.so.1 or so Jan 22 10:54:52 its also for learning ;) Jan 22 10:54:57 n1ce: i can help you more detail, just get back to me Jan 22 10:55:11 n1ce: i make no guarantees about the current code in git regarding release quality :). Jan 22 10:55:22 (just want to thank him and offer my support for fiddling) Jan 22 10:55:37 n1ce: and/or i keep latest betas at http://wdtz.org/files/vba . Jan 22 10:55:40 n1ce: learning is great, have at it Jan 22 10:55:59 n1ce: (sorry didn't see your learning comment until now) Jan 22 10:57:23 ok, will try to symlink it later iam now sitting in a train to dresden germany love my pre doing such things Jan 22 10:57:56 n1ce: pre sure does make train rides better :D Jan 22 10:58:40 so much more better ;) Jan 22 12:02:44 ssh preip -l root fails and the pre dropbear logs "user 'root' has blank password, rejected". I thought I read that it shouldn't be concerned with password at all, only with keys. Jan 22 12:03:32 i think you have to ssh in as a non-root user, and then sudo to root if you need root Jan 22 12:03:37 but if it can't find the key, it'll fall back on passwords, and then reject the session Jan 22 12:04:02 FreeTim1: afaik, the optware installer doesn't create non-root users anymore Jan 22 12:04:14 I seem to recall doing it by hand last time Jan 22 12:04:54 @jettero: /home/root/.ssh has id_rsa and authorized_keys Jan 22 12:22:03 lordbah: doesn't really need the id_rsa, as far as I know, but it does have to have the right perms (depends on the daemon) and the right file format (depends on the daemon) Jan 22 12:22:26 I'm using openssh, not dropbear, so I dunno what formats it wants Jan 22 12:22:49 In my experience, it sometimes doesn't work until you play with it a bit Jan 22 12:23:30 another option would be to allow root password logins until you sort out the key problems Jan 22 12:35:32 Feel I'm missing something. Ran dropbearkey per the wiki to create the keys on the Pre. But anyone anywhere could ssh to it, right? Doesn't there need to be some kind of step like copying one of the keys to my client? Jan 22 12:40:26 I don't think you should ssh with root user account, but a second account, and sudo to root is the standard safe way. The dropbear page on wiki possibly needs some flushing out with details. But it may be that once you're up and happy with ssh into the pre, that you may want to disable non-secure access Jan 22 12:42:16 also this is just Linux, so any documentation out there on standard use of openSSh and dropbear (say on Google) will apply to the Pre (mostly) verbatim. Jan 22 12:43:55 Dropbear isn't my app, or anything, but I should probably take-on flushing out that section of wiki, as a documentation mini project (I'm a systems engineer.) Jan 22 12:44:48 Oh, he's left hasn't he. I'm talking to the wall. :) Jan 22 12:49:23 hmm Jan 22 12:49:24 Back. Time to head to work so I had to switch from pidgin on desktop to wirc. Jan 22 12:49:41 so I installed TERMINUS and when I open it I just get black screen... no command prompt Jan 22 12:49:44 any idea? Jan 22 12:50:01 oh got it to work it took a while Jan 22 12:50:37 en0x: terminus has some issues ATM... Jan 22 12:50:59 its working... it takes a while to display output Jan 22 12:51:02 such as the orange key putting in a space so you end up typing paths like /media /internal /vba Jan 22 12:51:22 and it doesn't display text for a while (until you press enter AFAIK) Jan 22 12:51:28 yap Jan 22 12:51:39 well gotta wait for next release Jan 22 12:51:41 it still needs some smoothing on the rough edges Jan 22 12:51:49 but on the upside terminal has been fixed Jan 22 12:51:55 no longer crashes luna Jan 22 12:52:06 so install the updated terminal service and you are good to go Jan 22 12:53:25 cryptk|work: oh really? excellent i saw the update but didn't know what it was for. Jan 22 12:53:36 now u do Jan 22 12:53:48 en0x: lol, thanks Jan 22 12:55:35 yep, fixes the 2CC (two close crash) Jan 22 12:55:46 that was what I was jokingly calling that bug Jan 22 13:00:07 dtzWill: my wife hates VBA, lol Jan 22 13:00:19 cryptk|work: hahaha Jan 22 13:00:23 I spent about 2 hours yesterday playing Golden Sun Jan 22 13:01:00 btw, thought of a cool idea... could you make it to where it will (as an option) do an autosave when you close the program? Jan 22 13:01:04 cryptk|work: haha, excellent. love that game, glad it's one of the ones that runs reasonably well Jan 22 13:01:44 so you could set your "magic save" to 1, then when it closes it will autosave to slot 1... then next time you load that rom, it will auto load slot 1 Jan 22 13:01:45 cryptk|work: yeah i thought about that, but if i did do that i think it would have to be a different special save state or something Jan 22 13:01:59 maybe make a save state 4 just for that purpose Jan 22 13:02:07 if VBA supports 4 save states Jan 22 13:02:14 then don't set a keybinding for it Jan 22 13:02:20 cryptk|work: b/c i'm concerned people will die or do something they didn't want and for whatever reason throw the card and get 'screwed' having it override their previous save, etc, etc Jan 22 13:02:22 it is only enabled through an option Jan 22 13:02:28 cryptk|work: yeah they're just files, we can have as many saves as we want. Jan 22 13:02:50 cryptk|work: at some point, sigh, i really should make all these settings persistant haha. Jan 22 13:02:53 so have an option that you can enable for "magic save" that will autosave to slot 4, and autoload from slot 4 Jan 22 13:02:58 cryptk|work: instead of 50 billion toggles :) Jan 22 13:03:32 well, this would be an option that you could have accessible through the rom loader menu Jan 22 13:03:43 just an on off toggle for "magic save/load" Jan 22 13:03:49 cryptk|work: interesting. Jan 22 13:04:11 idea should be that I can play golden sun, swipe it closed... next time I play, I choose the Golden Sun ROM and it auto loads so I am right where I left off Jan 22 13:04:33 if you get more options, maybe make an options screen accessible through a button on the rom loader screen Jan 22 13:04:59 cryptk|work: absolutely, and understood. with a little thought you can save state (i already have myself trained to save state/load state when leaving/returning, since it's instant) Jan 22 13:05:14 cryptk|work: err i mean presently, just saying that's not an entirely /un/supported use case Jan 22 13:06:21 cryptk|work: once evas is all worked out i might just pull that in for the rom selector/etc, biggest reason no menu is i'm done hardcoding ui code with rects and hand-calculating coordinates :) Jan 22 13:06:41 what is evas? Jan 22 13:07:13 cryptk|work: that enlightenment gui stuff they're working on Jan 22 13:07:21 cryptk|work: i *thought* terminus used it? Jan 22 13:07:30 who what? I haven't heard of this! Jan 22 13:07:35 i haven't been followed that too closely so not sure Jan 22 13:08:07 what, check the cross-compile git it has like 20 enlightenment libs lol Jan 22 13:08:25 cryptk|work: EFL, etc. and yeah terminus uses it. Jan 22 13:08:35 nice Jan 22 13:31:54 hey there Jan 22 13:32:28 I'm having an issue with preware - am I at the right place here? Jan 22 13:33:31 no one active here? Jan 22 13:33:47 i think you're in the right place Jan 22 13:34:04 stick around and people will come alive Jan 22 13:34:07 rwhitby: you still here? Jan 22 13:34:14 great Jan 22 13:34:44 hertzi: but it would be nice if you described your problem and let people mull it over Jan 22 13:36:05 I'm proud owner of a German Pre - and used a few patches to make it more useable - after using Doctor and reinstalling PreWare all my previous patches apeare as installed but I can not uninstall or update them Jan 22 13:36:32 I thought Doctor is doing a complete reinstallation... Jan 22 13:36:58 hertzi: since 1.3.5, the doctor doesn't erase the /media/cryptofs partitions (/media/internal) Jan 22 13:37:05 It is, if you do a Full Erase first. It isn't, if you didnt Jan 22 13:37:08 so you would have to do a "FULL ERASE" first Jan 22 13:37:30 would EPR help? Jan 22 13:37:37 yeah, run EPR. Jan 22 13:37:54 ok - thanks - will try that Jan 22 13:38:12 and tell you in 30 min if it worked ... Jan 22 13:38:42 epr wont work Jan 22 13:38:50 had the same problem Jan 22 13:39:06 do a partial erase Jan 22 13:39:34 (you have to configure your pre again and install all homebrew apps again) Jan 22 13:40:48 just to be sure - with partial erase you mean just deleting everything on /media/internal, right? Jan 22 13:41:05 no partial will keep internal intact Jan 22 13:41:20 it will delete evey app and configuration Jan 22 13:41:57 (do a palm backup before you do this) Jan 22 13:44:10 WebOS Doctor needs like an option to fully wipe the device. Jan 22 13:46:34 ok - if Doctor doesn't have the option to erase and deleting the usb-part doesnt work either - how do I erase the pre? Jan 22 13:47:03 there is a factory reset option somewhere i thought in the settings .. Jan 22 13:48:48 full erase should do that Jan 22 13:49:00 it's in Device Info icon - Reset OPtions Jan 22 13:49:23 anyone know why Michael Prenez-Isbell left the NY Meetup group? Jan 22 13:51:20 y yo yo Jan 22 13:51:24 morning Jan 22 13:52:33 found it - thanks Jan 22 13:52:39 Device Info>Reset Options>Full Erase Jan 22 13:52:43 No... but he didn't come to the webosBoston group meetings either Jan 22 13:53:46 Full Erase erases everything except OS files, so if you have patches or something, you need to WebOS doctor after the full erase Jan 22 13:55:30 FreeTim: Thanks just curious when people leave things. I wasn't able to make the meetups but they looked well attended. Jan 22 14:01:26 destinal-wirc: ping Jan 22 14:01:50 Puff: pong Jan 22 14:02:06 i have good and bad news Jan 22 14:02:10 what do u want fuirst Jan 22 14:02:19 hi everyone Jan 22 14:02:29 heh, good news first I guess Jan 22 14:02:52 i'm more of a bad news first guy Jan 22 14:03:32 destinal-wirc: the good news is that Terminus as a sdl app should be fine for the app catalog...if palm changes type:game to a non root user all we have to do is add that user to wheel Jan 22 14:03:36 not a big deal Jan 22 14:03:47 yay! Jan 22 14:04:02 if u want root access Jan 22 14:04:37 destinal-wirc: for the bad news.... Jan 22 14:05:08 destinal-wirc: something about the version of Terminus that is in Preware is not the same as my testing version some how Jan 22 14:05:19 what is terminus? Jan 22 14:05:33 destinal-wirc: there is thisw long pause before the prompt shows up Jan 22 14:05:33 evas based terminal app Jan 22 14:05:41 what is evas : D Jan 22 14:05:52 a canvas lib Jan 22 14:06:02 i'm going to stop asking what things are now Jan 22 14:06:08 even though i don't know what a canvas lib is Jan 22 14:06:46 destinal-wirc: i also dont know what user its being run as Jan 22 14:06:56 "initially" Jan 22 14:07:04 Towzzer, big in games, it's the library to draw and move screen objects like sprites in javascript Jan 22 14:07:46 destinal-wirc: actually id says im root Jan 22 14:07:56 but my env is wrong Jan 22 14:08:06 if i su - Jan 22 14:08:10 then its fxed Jan 22 14:08:15 sorta like with novaterm Jan 22 14:08:49 err? Jan 22 14:09:36 like, i get a white bash prompt Jan 22 14:09:41 instead of my colored one Jan 22 14:09:43 two people are working on a different terminal app? Jan 22 14:09:43 I'll play. it didn't work for me at all last night Jan 22 14:09:58 version 0.0.1 didnt start Jan 22 14:10:01 0.0.2 does Jan 22 14:10:09 but there is this delay after it starts Jan 22 14:10:14 black screen for a few seconds Jan 22 14:10:40 i dont remember why Jan 22 14:10:47 hmm, I'll check it out Jan 22 14:10:49 cryptofs maybe? Jan 22 14:10:50 idk Jan 22 14:11:03 in a bit,have to commute first Jan 22 14:11:11 destinal-wirc: np Jan 22 14:13:44 behavior with orange shift is weird Jan 22 14:14:48 looks like it adds a space but doesn't actually add on Jan 22 14:14:52 when in doubt Jan 22 14:14:53 e Jan 22 14:14:55 just pretend its windows mobile Jan 22 14:15:00 and orange+sym+r Jan 22 14:15:18 I mean in terminus Jan 22 14:15:29 Kyusaku: orange+shift? Jan 22 14:15:31 i know im just messing Jan 22 14:15:36 what are u doimg? Jan 22 14:15:39 nah just orange Jan 22 14:16:07 what do u mean? Jan 22 14:16:17 messing with input to see how well it works Jan 22 14:17:13 like if I do "su -" it looks like "su -"(extra space in the middle) Jan 22 14:17:31 Kyusaku: orange modifier should work for everything but % Jan 22 14:17:45 Kyusaku: could be the font Jan 22 14:17:55 there is another monospaced font i've been testing that Jan 22 14:17:58 i might switch to it Jan 22 14:18:11 im not really a fan of the default Jan 22 14:18:38 I dunno, the cursor actually moves when I press down on orange Jan 22 14:18:46 not here Jan 22 14:18:56 definately shouldnt Jan 22 14:19:03 as if it creates some kind of phantom space Jan 22 14:19:09 you using 0.0.2 from Preware? Jan 22 14:19:11 but it's not really a space Jan 22 14:19:15 yeah Jan 22 14:19:18 odd Jan 22 14:19:47 if that does not work its way out after another release or 2 file a bug on Trac about it Jan 22 14:19:48 because I tested just typing out "su-" which looks like "su -" Jan 22 14:19:55 and it reads it as su- Jan 22 14:19:57 cause that definately dont happen here Jan 22 14:20:33 i think my su - looks normal Jan 22 14:20:58 so i need to do source /etc/profile Jan 22 14:21:02 before executing the shell Jan 22 14:21:03 yeah but the instant I press down on the orange key the cursor moves Jan 22 14:21:20 Kyusaku: try this out Jan 22 14:23:31 cd /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/us.ryanhope.terminus/data Jan 22 14:23:36 i beleive that is the right dir Jan 22 14:23:38 and then Jan 22 14:23:49 overwrite font in that dir Jan 22 14:24:00 the .ttf file with this one Jan 22 14:24:02 http://omploader.org/vMmFwYg/DejaVuSansMono.ttf Jan 22 14:24:25 i dont think the fonts are the exact size so i might have to tweak the rows/cols to use this font Jan 22 14:24:34 but tell me if you like the font better Jan 22 14:27:41 whoa Jan 22 14:27:58 termius didn't have that long wait Jan 22 14:28:05 terminus^ Jan 22 14:28:12 after the font change Jan 22 14:28:26 hmm Jan 22 14:28:58 I find this font a bit less readable Jan 22 14:29:10 hmm Jan 22 14:29:51 well there's a short black screen wait but not as long as when I first tried terminus Jan 22 14:30:12 with the other font Jan 22 14:30:37 pushing orange still moves the cursor Jan 22 14:31:30 I can just tap the orange key a bunch of times and the cursor will move arcoss the screen Jan 22 14:31:41 and input any text in those spots Jan 22 14:33:04 Kyusaku: try some of these fonts Jan 22 14:33:05 http://www.proggyfonts.com/index.php?menu=download Jan 22 14:33:27 but terminus won't register those as spaces Jan 22 14:33:59 all right lemme make some breakfast first Jan 22 14:34:01 register what? Jan 22 14:34:21 the empty spaces that pushing orange creates Jan 22 14:40:40 PuffTheMagic_: if you're running /etc/profile you're doing it wrong Jan 22 14:40:52 huh? Jan 22 14:41:27 destinal-wirc: i just know that what i need is accomplishes the same thing as 'source /etc/profile' in bash Jan 22 14:41:31 let /bin/login to shell do it Jan 22 14:41:34 i know there is a proper way to do it in C Jan 22 14:41:42 hmm Jan 22 14:41:59 right now it is launching the shell associated with the user Jan 22 14:42:02 from passwd Jan 22 14:42:24 right that's not so good Jan 22 14:42:32 why? Jan 22 14:42:43 no need for a login prompt Jan 22 14:42:50 doesn't login? Jan 22 14:42:59 no need prompt Jan 22 14:43:28 login does things Jan 22 14:43:43 and can bypass prompt Jan 22 14:43:59 i can try Jan 22 14:44:32 login -froot for instance Jan 22 14:48:53 PuffTheMagic_: is there a way I can increase the font size? I want to show you this weird orange key issue, but even with macro on camera can't get a clear enough shot, and of course orange+sym+p doesn't work Jan 22 14:49:18 Kyusaku: no way to increase font yet Jan 22 14:49:36 =/ Jan 22 14:49:41 Kyusaku: like i said if it dont go away in a few releases then worry about it Jan 22 14:49:53 all right Jan 22 14:50:23 terminus was originally designed to be run in an environment that was already set up with someone logged in Jan 22 14:50:56 but upstart, not really same thing Jan 22 14:51:04 what is the user that pre runs under Jan 22 14:51:17 root Jan 22 15:00:37 have been erasing and doctoring my pre - is up and working again - thanks for the help Jan 22 15:01:56 btw. PreWare should have something like a 'favorit' function - to mark patches and programs I like which get installed after a doctoring :) Jan 22 15:04:13 the list could be saved as a memo - that way Palm knows what to patch next :D Jan 22 15:13:16 hertzi, they are working on something Jan 22 15:13:19 to do that Jan 22 15:13:57 ah - great Jan 22 15:14:24 destinal-wirc1: check out my latest commit on terminus when u get a chance, i switched to login -p -f Jan 22 15:14:36 and i get user from "struct passwd" ->pw_name Jan 22 15:14:48 so its not hardcoded to use Jan 22 15:14:58 s/to user/to root/ Jan 22 15:27:03 Puff: cool Jan 22 15:27:44 will do Jan 22 15:44:19 destinal-wirc1: i thought of a nice way to do the shift+orange locks Jan 22 15:44:28 PuffTheMagic_: oh? Jan 22 15:44:28 should be pretty easy to change the cursor Jan 22 15:44:43 ah, just make it orange! :) Jan 22 15:44:59 but what about shift locks? Jan 22 15:45:03 blue Jan 22 15:45:06 greeen Jan 22 15:45:07 idk Jan 22 15:45:19 hmmm i thought the cursor blinked Jan 22 15:45:23 before Jan 22 15:45:27 (unrelated to this) Jan 22 15:45:35 but i guess not Jan 22 15:45:59 double tap will make it change color and blink Jan 22 15:46:03 for "lock" Jan 22 15:46:04 :D Jan 22 15:46:13 maybe blink will be to hard Jan 22 15:46:14 idk Jan 22 15:47:50 Towzzer: so are you happy now? Jan 22 15:47:52 :P Jan 22 15:47:56 why Jan 22 15:47:57 is it out? Jan 22 15:48:00 on preware? Jan 22 15:48:00 yeah Jan 22 15:48:02 yay! Jan 22 15:48:05 terminal fix Jan 22 15:48:06 screw you guys Jan 22 15:48:09 i'm going home Jan 22 15:48:20 lol Jan 22 15:48:44 acutally Jan 22 15:48:45 destinal Jan 22 15:48:51 i need you to port windows 7 Jan 22 15:48:51 go Jan 22 15:48:57 Towzzer: lmao Jan 22 15:49:14 you can run windows 3.1 in dosbox probably Jan 22 15:49:17 have fun Jan 22 15:49:39 is dosbox working? Jan 22 15:49:52 destinal can you make the dos mouse Jan 22 15:49:52 be touch Jan 22 15:50:29 Kyusaku: well, kind of. you can build it from the WIDK repository Jan 22 15:50:43 and it runs Jan 22 15:50:48 I see I'll take a peek Jan 22 15:51:37 There are some issues, we're missing sound and since it expects hardware buffering but doesn't have it there is some graphics tearing Jan 22 15:51:56 my friend made a youtube of some wacky old DOS game, wondering if it'd work on the pre Jan 22 15:52:07 probably Jan 22 15:53:33 Towzzer: the DOS mouse already is touch in the dosbox port. Not much of a port, just disabled CDROM initialization and changed SDL surface from HW to SW Jan 22 15:53:57 It works because up to five touch points at the same time automagically become up to five mice Jan 22 15:54:04 in Palm's libSDL Jan 22 15:54:15 destinal: when i start terminus from cli via ssh it starts instantly Jan 22 15:54:29 its only though launcher as type/game that there is this lag it seems Jan 22 15:54:41 PuffTheMagic_: type: game takes a few seconds for some reason Jan 22 15:54:56 yeah but Jan 22 15:55:00 its not all up front Jan 22 15:55:01 is it longer than that? Jan 22 15:55:10 well, I no longer have a day-one phone Jan 22 15:55:10 i mean, the game starts for a sec Jan 22 15:55:17 gets stuck for a few seconds Jan 22 15:55:18 Rick_work: no? what happened? Jan 22 15:55:20 then continues on Jan 22 15:55:42 headphone jack failed mechanically to hold a headset plug any longer. Swapped phone Jan 22 15:55:43 * destinal still has a day one phone though is thinking of returning it due to many dead pixels Jan 22 15:56:07 well original build phone made the same time as the others, didn't BUY it day one Jan 22 15:57:49 It took the #webos-internals announcements about easy root access and the linux userland to get me to cancel my iphone 3gs order and buy one Jan 22 15:57:56 I bought mine day one but I remember my phone had a slightly later build date than other people Jan 22 15:59:20 warranty date code of 06/01/2009 Jan 22 15:59:57 see you later Jan 22 16:01:38 xcomp: ping Jan 22 16:03:17 PuffTheMagic_: pong Jan 22 16:03:38 xcomp: there is another patch for ecore that would be useful Jan 22 16:03:41 ecore/sdl Jan 22 16:04:27 pb? Jan 22 16:04:43 in that Ecore_Sdl_Keys.h file Jan 22 16:04:46 the modifier keys Jan 22 16:04:55 yeah I know those need work Jan 22 16:04:57 like RALT LALT LMETA etc. Jan 22 16:05:02 well Jan 22 16:05:08 all the strings are empty Jan 22 16:05:13 if they had something in there Jan 22 16:05:23 that would be helpful Jan 22 16:05:27 i can make a patch real quick Jan 22 16:05:32 with the sdl equivs Jan 22 16:06:11 email me ... I'll review it and commit when I get to the office Jan 22 16:06:24 xcomp: pm me your e-mail Jan 22 16:08:18 so a compiler, a linker, and a binary walk into a bar... Jan 22 16:09:47 and left disappointed because all the hot chicks were actually hookers working for libtool? Jan 22 16:11:12 haha actually i was trying to think of a good punch line to make the binary strip Jan 22 16:11:15 :( Jan 22 16:11:18 but my phone rang Jan 22 16:14:15 loot_: hey baby, you don't need all those debug symbols Jan 22 16:14:22 lmao Jan 22 16:15:39 your library path or mine? Jan 22 16:15:46 uh, struggling here Jan 22 16:18:29 there was an how-to to install the porting env using VBox under Windows? Jan 22 16:18:38 yes Jan 22 16:18:58 you need ubuntu server vm Jan 22 16:18:59 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS_Internals_PDK Jan 22 16:19:02 fyi MetaView, that sentence was a trainwreck Jan 22 16:19:20 a trainwreck.. hm Jan 22 16:19:50 metaview: i could give you a finished vbox-image Jan 22 16:20:09 swisstomcat: would be great Jan 22 16:20:10 with 9.10 server and all the pdk stuff already installed Jan 22 16:20:15 cool, yes Jan 22 16:20:36 let me see how big it is Jan 22 16:22:24 2.5GB Jan 22 16:22:52 how long would that take to transfer? Jan 22 16:23:20 download? don't know, 1 hour? Jan 22 16:23:27 trainwreck: A metaphor to describe something disastrous yet inevitable or distasteful yet morbidly fascinating Jan 22 16:24:39 xcomp: sent Jan 22 16:25:03 I think he meant it in terms of "disaster" instead Jan 22 16:25:10 I didn't think it was that bad Jan 22 16:25:24 back Jan 22 16:25:39 It was funny at the sprint store. Jan 22 16:26:39 how funny was it! Jan 22 16:26:41 Four of the employees had pre's, all of them running preware, and they recognized my name and were showing me how they had tweaked out their phones... and they asked me if I knew oil and rwhitby and others.... Jan 22 16:27:02 haha nice Jan 22 16:27:19 somehow I doubt I'd get that sort of reception at mine Jan 22 16:27:25 I don't think they'd even know what preware is Jan 22 16:27:27 hehe Jan 22 16:27:42 You're famous ;) Jan 22 16:28:14 cool Jan 22 16:28:14 microcosmically Jan 22 16:28:18 everyone with a pre had preware on it, most of them had made extra launcher pages, _all_ of them were running battery% with icon, they were all asking if I knew "the guy who runs the patch site" .... Jan 22 16:28:19 the guys at my sprint store are pretty... dimwitted. I'm pretty sure I could take the battery out and tell them it's broke and they'd never figure it out >.> Jan 22 16:28:34 and I had to explain that I "knew" him only through text. Jan 22 16:28:51 I should do the battery% patch, like remake it. I don't use it because I think it looks rather ugly up there :/ Jan 22 16:29:07 :-) The tech came out of the back to chat with us. Jan 22 16:29:25 nice Jan 22 16:29:35 did you prod for an answer on possible pre plus on sprint? :p Jan 22 16:30:05 no point. I have MUCH better contacts higher up in sprint than that. Jan 22 16:30:09 btw, is it normal for my pre to be cracking near the usb port? Jan 22 16:30:21 spotter no, and it's cause for a warranty repair. Jan 22 16:30:29 (exchange) Jan 22 16:30:33 hmm Jan 22 16:30:36 nothing should crack Jan 22 16:30:37 will ahve to do that then Jan 22 16:30:38 imho Jan 22 16:30:45 but that will be a pain Jan 22 16:30:48 how many stuck pixels do you have to have to get it exchanged Jan 22 16:30:54 need to backup my /media/internal Jan 22 16:31:01 I'm not sure, 5 or 7 I think Jan 22 16:31:04 blah Jan 22 16:31:06 i got a little crack there Jan 22 16:31:07 well Jan 22 16:31:15 a little sliver of a piece of black shit came off Jan 22 16:31:18 no biggie Jan 22 16:31:28 sliver off is NOT a warranty replacement Jan 22 16:31:30 where are the encrypted apps stored on /media/internal? Jan 22 16:31:33 Vertical cracking is Jan 22 16:31:50 and would encrypted apps be able to move between devices? Jan 22 16:31:54 in /media/cryptofs/apps Jan 22 16:31:54 I have a small horizontal crack on the left Jan 22 16:31:56 or does ecah device have its own random key? Jan 22 16:31:59 didn't drop it, not sure how Jan 22 16:32:00 the coat on my center button came off months ago Jan 22 16:32:03 spotter, it's just a folder Jan 22 16:32:10 i.e. concerned about homebrew apps that are no longer available Jan 22 16:32:11 otherwise it's still ok Jan 22 16:32:26 spotter just back them up and copy them back in. No big deal Jan 22 16:32:33 mine has a stuck pixel, and turns off when I slide it if I don't put a piece of cardboard in the battery cabinet... i figure I'd press them to exchange it eventually, I'm just really lazy and hate the local sprint repair center Jan 22 16:32:44 spotter: /media/internal/.palm gets mounted on /media/cryptofs Jan 22 16:32:55 ok, so saving all of /media/internal is what I want Jan 22 16:33:00 dont need to work about cryptofs Jan 22 16:33:00 no Jan 22 16:33:12 as putting .palm back will bring all the apps back Jan 22 16:33:14 I would back up cryptofs just in case Jan 22 16:33:24 spotter I wouldn't do that Jan 22 16:33:24 in case you change devices Jan 22 16:33:34 there's no guarantee that the key is the same between devices Jan 22 16:33:36 just copy the contents of cryptofs to to internal Jan 22 16:33:38 ok Jan 22 16:33:40 that was my Q Jan 22 16:33:45 so back up /media/cryptofs Jan 22 16:33:49 ok Jan 22 16:33:58 that way you have the UNENCRYPTED files. Jan 22 16:34:01 palm must keep the key somewhere on it Jan 22 16:34:13 spotter: key is generated from hardware ID I think Jan 22 16:34:14 yeah, but we havne't bothered to chase it down Jan 22 16:34:39 currently, what's the point? Jan 22 16:34:44 nodnodnod Jan 22 16:34:55 it's not designed to protect anything, just obscure the apps from USB mode Jan 22 16:35:14 and hopefully the performance hit for doing so is negligable but it is costing you in some way to hide it from yourself Jan 22 16:35:21 security through obscurity Jan 22 16:36:56 I'm thinking about writing up something to disable it yet still use the directories everyone expects Jan 22 16:37:35 new phone came with 1.3.1 out of box. Now on fourth attempt to dl 1.3.5.1 Jan 22 16:37:46 going to doctor it in about 5 minutes if next attempt fails Jan 22 16:38:10 what fails? Validation? Jan 22 16:38:12 Rick_work: new updates take SO long I would probably just doctor Jan 22 16:38:46 seriously a doctor can take noticeably less time than an OTA update now Jan 22 16:39:02 point Jan 22 16:39:07 true Jan 22 17:01:56 any thoughts on doing a new install of preware? Jan 22 17:02:20 Kyusaku: 0.0.3 should be in Preware soon Jan 22 17:03:03 i understand the preware installer is broken, so I'm trying the bootstrap. Do I need to go with the Alpha release, or just the standard? Jan 22 17:05:37 Either way fails. Log: http://pastebin.com/d46e04b46 Jan 22 17:09:59 PuffTheMagic_: All right, I'll keep an eye out and give a test run Jan 22 17:12:30 what happens if I have two pres with the same profile? Jan 22 17:13:10 hmmm it didnt build Jan 22 17:13:14 they will fight Jan 22 17:13:15 err Jan 22 17:13:19 didnt repackage Jan 22 17:13:51 LoneStar99: they will log each other out of Palm Profile Jan 22 17:14:04 and could end up wiping a phone's profile Jan 22 17:14:17 palm stores lots of versions of your profile Jan 22 17:14:20 you can always go back Jan 22 17:14:22 if u call them up Jan 22 17:15:08 that's a headache Jan 22 17:15:20 ok thanks! Jan 22 17:15:22 I think LoneStar's phones are purely dev phones Jan 22 17:16:08 unless you actually bought one for usage now? Jan 22 17:16:37 yeah, i have the tethering scripted out but don't intend to release Jan 22 17:16:56 ? Jan 22 17:17:50 oops, was supposed to be pm Jan 22 17:17:57 lol Jan 22 17:18:00 lol Jan 22 17:18:32 the /msg command is your friend Jan 22 17:18:37 hehee Jan 22 17:18:55 Kyusaku: these are only dev phones Jan 22 17:19:49 unless there's something important on the Palm Profile you need to share like a pay app better off just creating another one for the other phone Jan 22 17:22:03 if they are both on, they are liable to sign each other out and cause random issues with what's on the palm profile outside of paid apps Jan 22 17:22:19 destinal: if I have LunaSysMgr running in the fg starting terminus is instant Jan 22 17:22:24 i think there is an env issue Jan 22 17:22:51 that is causing the slowdown Jan 22 17:23:15 Kyusaku: ok thanks... Jan 22 17:24:02 ehh this time it wasnt Jan 22 17:24:03 wtf Jan 22 17:24:16 another question i have a paid app in the app store and would like to make a patch for it available on Preware, would that cause issues with Palm? Jan 22 17:25:04 what kind of patch Jan 22 17:25:18 or do you mean some kind of quick release or beta build Jan 22 17:25:47 PuffTheMagic_: interesting Jan 22 17:26:02 other developers have had quick release/beta builds on preware, while the stable version is in the app caalog Jan 22 17:26:04 destinal: well it happened a few times Jan 22 17:26:07 then it started going slow again Jan 22 17:27:04 Kyusaku: a patch to allow the paid app to be added to universal search Jan 22 17:27:17 oh. Jan 22 17:27:23 an actual patch Jan 22 17:27:30 they don't care Jan 22 17:27:48 whatever is outside the catalog is not their concern Jan 22 17:28:12 as long as the universal search patch is NECESSARY for the app Jan 22 17:28:13 Kyusaku: 0.0.3 is out Jan 22 17:28:15 errr Jan 22 17:28:19 isn't necessary Jan 22 17:29:12 patch would be an option for users to extend the functionality of the app, that is all Jan 22 17:29:28 then it's fine, Palm won't care Jan 22 17:31:11 LoneStar99: like I said they won't care, as long as the app isn't crippled without it. Jan 22 17:31:40 Kyusaku: you know where I can find the "how to" add to global search tutorial? Jan 22 17:31:49 can't seem to find it Jan 22 17:32:54 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_Browser_Global_Search_Addons Jan 22 17:33:08 is that what you're looknig for? Jan 22 17:33:46 also you can look at the KeyToss patch to get an idea how it does it for an example. Jan 22 17:34:11 although Keytoss takes over as the main search engine Jan 22 17:34:36 just a heads up Jan 22 17:35:36 Kyusaku: ok, i just want to add my app to the list Jan 22 17:37:41 yo all, seeking feedback on.. Jan 22 17:37:42 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Xorg_Tools_-_Power_Tools_for_Power_Users Jan 22 17:38:21 i took out tethering setup Jan 22 17:39:10 PuffTheMagic_: Launched from Preware, kind locked up my Pre for a little bit but didn't reboot. Orange still moves the cursor, I got a shot of it with my digital camera Jan 22 17:39:33 Kyusaku: what version of webos? Jan 22 17:39:35 PuffTheMagic_: terminus no worky Jan 22 17:39:42 1.3.5.1 Jan 22 17:39:48 zsoc: whats it do? Jan 22 17:40:57 I'll throw up a shot on photobucket in a sec, res too high on this pic Jan 22 17:41:02 PuffTheMagic_: black Jan 22 17:41:21 zsoc: it should be like that for a few seconds, then the prompt should show up Jan 22 17:41:28 zsoc: try running it from ssh Jan 22 17:44:15 PuffTheMagic_: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/kyusaku/img_3549.jpg Jan 22 17:44:27 I basically was messing with su command Jan 22 17:44:51 yeah thats weird Jan 22 17:44:52 idk Jan 22 17:44:55 I hit "s" then tapped orange a bunch of times, "u" tapped orange a bunch of times Jan 22 17:44:57 my looks perfect ;) Jan 22 17:45:16 heh ok Jan 22 17:45:28 i mean i beleived you Jan 22 17:45:32 i just dont get it Jan 22 17:45:34 so idk Jan 22 17:45:35 right Jan 22 17:45:44 dtzWill: yo Jan 22 17:45:46 zsoc: any luck? Jan 22 17:46:09 PuffTheMagic_: works now, just had to be patient Jan 22 17:46:17 * raeb sneezes Jan 22 17:46:21 its not that long of a wait Jan 22 17:46:26 but its is instant from cli Jan 22 17:46:32 and sometimes though launcher Jan 22 17:46:33 PuffTheMagic_: need to make orange a toggle ;) Jan 22 17:46:35 idk what luna is doing Jan 22 17:46:41 zsoc: yeah thats on the list Jan 22 17:46:42 PuffTheMagic_: and yes I see now, it's very fast Jan 22 17:46:50 PuffTheMagic_: very cool Jan 22 17:46:53 zsoc: i need to wait for xcomp to push the patch to ecore i sent him Jan 22 17:47:08 zsoc: imagine how much faster it would be with gles :D Jan 22 17:47:12 PuffTheMagic_: gotcha Jan 22 18:03:19 what is new Jan 22 18:04:00 egaudet_work: terminus 0.0.3-1 in preware Jan 22 18:05:07 rebooting Jan 22 18:06:10 WHY CAN't I PASTE INTO ANY TERMINAL Jan 22 18:07:11 zsoc: shift+ins? Jan 22 18:07:51 PuffTheMagic_: any terminal on my phone :p Jan 22 18:07:55 zsoc: you mean webos terinal progs Jan 22 18:08:04 zsoc: cause i havent implemented that Jan 22 18:08:07 yet Jan 22 18:08:14 because no one cares about your stinkin clipboard! Jan 22 18:08:19 bah Jan 22 18:08:28 I'll add it in terminal too :) Jan 22 18:08:28 2 terminals. no clipboards Jan 22 18:08:32 garbage Jan 22 18:08:34 :D Jan 22 18:08:43 zsoc: soon Jan 22 18:08:48 hold your pants Jan 22 18:08:49 destinal-pre: did you try to submit a plugin ipk for web distribution? Jan 22 18:09:23 egaudet: palms web interface rejected my app Jan 22 18:09:30 two more pennies for pasting in term app Jan 22 18:09:33 and won't let me delete Jan 22 18:10:26 heh, what did you try just a simple app with plugin? Jan 22 18:10:33 I would try again but don't want to make chuq mad at me :) Jan 22 18:10:41 I tried terminal Jan 22 18:11:12 :P I wonder if we could pry the "details" of what's accepted Jan 22 18:13:10 hmm i cant get color syntax hilighting working on vim on pre Jan 22 18:13:50 PuffTheMagic_: i love you for wanting syntax highlighted vim on your pre Jan 22 18:13:56 PuffTheMagic_: :D Jan 22 18:15:58 who needs sb2 we can all write our code using terminus+vim and compile it natively xD Jan 22 18:16:18 terminus has same issue as terminal with regards to ssh-agent being spawned from /etc/profile.d/ and never destroyed each time new termin[us/al] instance is started. Is that a problem in how we install ssh to /etc/profile.d/ ? Jan 22 18:16:47 dtzWill: how do you think I get anything done at work? :D Jan 22 18:17:17 PuffTheMagic_: that's the only thing that drives me crazy. vim with no colors feels... wrong Jan 22 18:18:06 vim on a Pre in general should -feel- wrong :P Jan 22 18:19:16 no it feels great :) Jan 22 18:19:38 zsoc: it looks wrong, but feels oh-so-right Jan 22 18:20:54 egaudet_work: it like it Jan 22 18:20:57 feels great Jan 22 18:23:34 dtzWill: it looks nice Jan 22 18:23:37 esp with color Jan 22 18:23:46 i just dont get why hilighting aint working Jan 22 18:24:19 lol Jan 22 18:25:44 any trick to doing special characters in terminus? orange-q (/) wasn't working for me, among other things Jan 22 18:26:09 Where is my Facebook Chat client? Jan 22 18:26:24 dtzWill: stuttering is worse Jan 22 18:26:40 facebook chat client... Jan 22 18:26:43 /sigh Jan 22 18:29:45 If this isn't the right place to ask I apologize, but I'm looking around for ways to hide applications. I've already applied the 3-4 patches that are in WebOS Quick Install but there are 2 other apps I want to hide or lock if there is such a tweak? Jan 22 18:30:15 use terminal to edit their appinfo and set visible to false Jan 22 18:30:16 Would I now manually access the command line and add visible : false lines? Jan 22 18:30:22 hey dtzWill, finished my new mockup for "widescreen" :p Jan 22 18:30:28 That's what I thought. Jan 22 18:30:44 oilsworkn: do you happen to know if there's some way to lock the app with a password instead? Jan 22 18:30:44 :D Jan 22 18:30:53 dtzWill: u have to see this screenshot Jan 22 18:30:54 :D Jan 22 18:31:17 Traveler0: there isn't Jan 22 18:31:40 unless you wanted to create some sort of splash scene and ask for a password, and stick it in the code, and tell the app to launch that scene first Jan 22 18:31:48 but, that seems like more work then its probably worth Jan 22 18:32:22 PMed mockup, dtzWill :p Jan 22 18:32:50 pmed? Jan 22 18:32:51 we all want to see Jan 22 18:33:02 I dunno if dtzWill wants me to show everyone :p Jan 22 18:33:06 http://omploader.org/vM2JwYw/vim-on-terminus.png Jan 22 18:33:11 Someone should consider doing the password lock thing .....A lot of people would love that Jan 22 18:33:14 oilsworkn: ah, thought that doesn't sound bad yeah. I suppose for now this is enough. So in WebOS QI the "Linux Commandline" is giving me full root now yes? Jan 22 18:33:21 dtzWill: see url Jan 22 18:33:26 zsoc: see url Jan 22 18:33:29 egaudet_work: see url Jan 22 18:33:31 :D Jan 22 18:33:39 PuffTheMagic_: rather have nano with syntax highlighting kthx :p Jan 22 18:33:43 Traveler0: i dont know anything about the command line thing in wqi Jan 22 18:33:55 VincentLaw: you cand o what ever you want Jan 22 18:33:56 morning Jan 22 18:34:33 Rick_work: see url (you wanted an editor... you have one now) :D Jan 22 18:34:43 PuffTheMagic_: I can't save that image.. Jan 22 18:34:48 Traveler0: wqi does have that send/receive file thing, you could get it, change it, send it back Jan 22 18:35:00 there it goes. Jan 22 18:35:02 IE fail Jan 22 18:35:02 dBsooner: the screenshot? Jan 22 18:35:16 dBsooner: lol Jan 22 18:35:17 oilsworkn: how do you get terminal access? I saw something about getting SSH, but for one I'm on a windows box atm, and for another it appears that a lot of this info is outdated Jan 22 18:35:20 yeah.. IE failed Jan 22 18:35:24 dBsooner: you cant just view it in your browser? Jan 22 18:35:26 why save it Jan 22 18:35:32 Again.. IE FAIL Jan 22 18:35:37 PuffTheMagic_: SO PRETTY Jan 22 18:35:42 Firefox works Jan 22 18:35:44 zsoc: i know :D Jan 22 18:35:54 Remember.. I'm on my work laptop with IE6 Jan 22 18:36:07 zsoc: you need to add a ~/.vimrc and set 'syntax on' Jan 22 18:36:12 Traveler0: when i said that, i meant the terminal app on the pre, but if you don't know much about moving around and editing files in linux it will take some learning Jan 22 18:36:58 oilsworkn: linux I have no problem with Jan 22 18:37:04 so I'll do that Jan 22 18:37:07 then install the terminal app/plugin Jan 22 18:37:13 its in preware Jan 22 18:38:01 oilsworkn did you have a chance to reply to Troy Mott? Jan 22 18:38:27 oh yeah, i forgot that he replyed with the info, i'll do that today :) Jan 22 18:39:18 PuffTheMagic_ great -- terminus is good enough to run vim, then I can run my "one true editor" which Ghod knows is not vim. :-) Jan 22 18:39:28 psh Jan 22 18:39:31 emacs? Jan 22 18:39:34 :( Jan 22 18:39:47 PuffTheMagic_ Not entering into that discussion. Not not not. Jan 22 18:40:05 Rick_work: i really dont care what editor people use Jan 22 18:40:06 * Rick_work covers ears "Lalalalalalalalalal" Jan 22 18:40:10 lol Jan 22 18:40:22 i was a nano fan till a few months ago Jan 22 18:40:26 before that i hated vim Jan 22 18:40:32 Rick_work: vim is the ONLY ture editor :P Jan 22 18:40:34 there is no discussion, nano or death >.> Jan 22 18:40:36 idk, maybe his editor of choice is word, that is what this proposal is in :) Jan 22 18:40:44 vim would destroy nano in a fight to the death Jan 22 18:40:54 lol Jan 22 18:40:58 oilsworkn it's not like I have a choice, they sent me a word doc as the template. Jan 22 18:41:00 nano's smart enough not to get into fights it knows it won't win though Jan 22 18:41:26 haha Jan 22 18:41:28 nano? seriously? :-\ Jan 22 18:41:35 if you can't do it in sed, why are we talking? :-) Jan 22 18:41:40 eww nano Jan 22 18:41:42 bleh.. no nano... alright vim... Jan 22 18:41:45 jacques - nano has a place. Jan 22 18:41:46 ed is the best editor Jan 22 18:41:50 * PuffTheMagic_ walks to campus to get his computer account and to get keys to his new office Jan 22 18:41:53 I don't mind vim but I sorta hate some of its advancements over just plain vi Jan 22 18:42:02 but I'd much rather use vim over nano anyday Jan 22 18:42:03 * PuffTheMagic_ for get he needs to pick up his macbook Jan 22 18:42:17 Rick-home, yeah I use it on gentoo installs until I can get emacs installed Jan 22 18:42:43 eww emacs Jan 22 18:43:33 hm is nano in this preware somewhere it's bad enough typing on these keys Jan 22 18:43:57 lately I've been using zile on the pre Jan 22 18:44:45 egaudet_work: ++ Jan 22 18:45:45 Traveler0: isn't nano already on the phone? Jan 22 18:46:54 oilsworkn: nano: not found Jan 22 18:46:58 so no doesn't look like it Jan 22 18:47:07 well, just use vi Jan 22 18:47:14 :) Jan 22 18:47:48 "vi users: stuck up? who us?" :) Jan 22 18:48:00 isn't nano on preware Jan 22 18:48:11 I vaguely remember it was at one point Jan 22 18:48:22 Kyusaku: I don't see it here, but this is what my second time using preware Jan 22 18:48:40 Actually to be fair I'm looking in wqi but its the same repo if I understand correctly? Jan 22 18:49:12 I'm just transferring and editing in *shudder* notepad Jan 22 18:49:16 I'm not sure I rarely use WOSQI Jan 22 18:49:54 hmmm it's not there Jan 22 18:50:13 oh wait Jan 22 18:50:20 I don't have optware feed enabled Jan 22 18:50:38 I don't think WOSQI has the optware feed Jan 22 18:50:49 it's probably there Jan 22 18:51:12 ah, well I'm sitting in a place with no data service which is why I was using it in the first place... can I add whatever other feed to it? Jan 22 18:51:47 it's safe to store appinfo.backups in the same folder here yes? Jan 22 18:52:07 you can try, as I've said not big on WOSQI Jan 22 18:52:16 and backups, yes Jan 22 18:52:53 yeah, it specifically looks for appinfo.json Jan 22 18:53:42 and, with quick install, you could just download the ipk and install it Jan 22 18:53:56 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/optware/ Jan 22 18:54:02 nano IS in there Jan 22 18:54:05 optware feeds are ipkg.preware.org/feeds/optware/arm7 and ipkg.preware.org/feeds/optware/all Jan 22 18:54:41 Rick_work: this thing is longer then i thought it would be, haha, they seem to want to know a lot about me as well Jan 22 18:55:23 really sorry sir. Jan 22 18:55:30 I'll owe you someting Jan 22 18:55:40 its ok, i didn't want to do work today anyways, hence sitting here :) Jan 22 18:57:41 ah I see it. nice Jan 22 18:59:37 well that worked nicely... got em all hidden and nano's installed. thanks for that Jan 22 19:01:18 out of curiosity, what all are you hiding/did you want password protected? Jan 22 19:02:21 well nascar, nfl and sprintv all went quietly with patches. I needed amazon, youtube and the app catalog hidden. first 2 down, just have the catalog left Jan 22 19:02:43 why the app catalog? Jan 22 19:02:57 kids, why else. Jan 22 19:03:02 ah Jan 22 19:03:26 and it seems I can still install whatever I want from a computer, which serves fine. Jan 22 19:03:36 how easy is it to unhide them? Jan 22 19:03:39 fyi: to actually pay for apps from the catalog, it does ask for your profile password before charging you Jan 22 19:04:03 JMyaDaGod: not hard if you kow basic linux stuff Jan 22 19:04:07 know* Jan 22 19:04:30 oilsworkn: yeah I noticed that Jan 22 19:05:29 hm I assume com.palm.app.findapps is the catalog Jan 22 19:05:32 if one of your kids downloads an OTA update it'll probably unhide those apps Jan 22 19:05:48 oilsworkn: some of the apps apparently they'd rather not expose them too in the first place Jan 22 19:05:50 yeah Jan 22 19:05:50 Kyusaku : would u be able to unhide from terminal? Jan 22 19:05:56 *to Jan 22 19:06:00 JMyaDaGod: yes Jan 22 19:06:12 the app previews even I suppose Jan 22 19:06:20 findapps is the catalog Jan 22 19:06:51 JMyaDaGod: cd to the app dir, vi the appinfo.json and change visible to true Jan 22 19:10:30 well thanks for the help everyone Jan 22 19:10:36 np Jan 22 19:11:15 Traveler0: some of the hot babes wallpaper apps, for instance? :) Jan 22 19:11:24 destinal: yes precisely Jan 22 19:11:40 the biggest problem with those is not the content, its that they want you to pay for it Jan 22 19:11:50 app guidelines Jan 22 19:11:57 step 1: GIS "hot babes: Jan 22 19:12:03 step 2: make crappy app incuding them Jan 22 19:12:11 step 3: profit Jan 22 19:12:20 heh. I was surprised that it took so long to get those kind of apps on the iphone's app store Jan 22 19:12:23 oilsworkn: wow and the sheer number of brighthouse stuff STILL coming that's all copies of the same app Jan 22 19:12:30 but not showing up in catalog yet.. Jan 22 19:12:36 yeah Jan 22 19:12:48 well hopefully with the $50 per-app in catalog thing will slow those somewhat Jan 22 19:12:57 i find it hard to believe they will make it up Jan 22 19:13:15 oilsworkn: will that be retroactive or only for new apps after a certain date, do you know? Jan 22 19:13:23 noclue Jan 22 19:13:23 I need to port Myst/Riven to WebOS >.> Jan 22 19:13:30 its per-year Jan 22 19:13:38 so the first year was free for al the beta people Jan 22 19:13:40 probably renewal time will be the hit Jan 22 19:13:41 right Jan 22 19:13:42 so i assume next year itl be $50 Jan 22 19:13:59 can you sell open source apps? Jan 22 19:13:59 well, by free, i think it was $5 xD Jan 22 19:14:09 i think that will still be free, idk Jan 22 19:14:17 they may open their apps, haha Jan 22 19:14:23 right but can you set a non-zero price onoss stuff? Jan 22 19:14:25 on oss Jan 22 19:14:31 you should be able to I'd hope Jan 22 19:14:36 yeah Jan 22 19:14:52 i think they said oss apps would not have that $50 per year? Jan 22 19:15:00 i could be mistaken Jan 22 19:15:12 well they have no registration cost for developer account Jan 22 19:15:25 not sure about no yearly fee, probably there's none Jan 22 19:15:50 I recalling seeing something like "free forever" so probably it's a blanket thing Jan 22 19:16:40 oilsworkn: I filled out the app submission thing for the first time, wow was that time-consuming Jan 22 19:16:53 yeah Jan 22 19:16:57 a gazillion questions Jan 22 19:23:53 I'd like to make real catalog apps that people would find useful (as opposed to all this junk) but my javascript skillz need some work. (and we can't submit SDL or plugin apps yet) Jan 22 19:24:42 then again, in only a few months or less... Jan 22 19:24:45 what app u submiting? Jan 22 19:25:29 JMyaDaGod: just a test while talking to bhern, nothing real. was probably a bad idea Jan 22 19:25:53 but at least now we know the app catalog submission stuff has good checks built in Jan 22 19:26:25 homebrew, on the other hand... Jan 22 19:26:44 you can upload whatevs Jan 22 19:26:46 lol Jan 22 19:27:20 i HIGHLY doubt the precentral guys download and test every app submitted to them Jan 22 19:27:37 oilsworkn: well at least before it was only mojo, so limited damage. Jan 22 19:27:47 yeah Jan 22 19:27:48 someone should make a phishing app and submit it Jan 22 19:27:51 :p Jan 22 19:28:02 then we can get all the free publicity android has been getting Jan 22 19:28:07 vim is so good Jan 22 19:28:26 and we (webos internals) have always tested/roughly looked over binarys we push to feeds Jan 22 19:28:37 since most (all?) of them are hosted on the git Jan 22 19:28:38 oilsworkn: and we have source code Jan 22 19:28:50 right Jan 22 19:28:56 Palm will have a lot of challenge in that regard I expect Jan 22 19:28:57 and we test and use things before they're put into a feed Jan 22 19:29:03 when they start accepting plugins Jan 22 19:29:10 does apple require source? Jan 22 19:29:20 i wonder if they look it over / build it themselves Jan 22 19:30:03 oilsworkn: no, I don't believe they do Jan 22 19:30:17 wow Jan 22 19:30:24 how can they possibly know what all an app does? Jan 22 19:30:35 oilsworkn: I'm willing to bet they can't Jan 22 19:30:47 then again, even with source, it doesn't mean they read/understand what every line is doing Jan 22 19:30:50 they may do binary analysis and/or dynamic analysis in a runtime Jan 22 19:31:09 this is largely why you use sandboxes Jan 22 19:31:10 check for dangerous calls or undocumented things Jan 22 19:31:18 hi destinal Jan 22 19:31:22 thanks for terminal Jan 22 19:31:22 you are the best Jan 22 19:31:29 lol Jan 22 19:31:33 any analysis is going to be incomplete and subject to evasion that will exhaust your analysis resources Jan 22 19:32:07 take a look at things like plymorphic self-encryptuing malware on the PC as an example Jan 22 19:32:23 er.. polymorphic self-encrypting Jan 22 19:32:44 *nods* there's still a lot you can do in a sandbox in terms of unauthorized behavior but it should limit malicious activity somewhat Jan 22 19:32:55 even virtualization simulation is insufficient in the face of external event driven triggers Jan 22 19:33:14 but any good model layers all of those things and some good reactive capabilities Jan 22 19:33:56 bhern: I don't think any major vendor has done much of this on a consumer device yet Jan 22 19:34:03 the protections you discuss Jan 22 19:34:14 * oilsworkn is still crossing his fingers the PDK does more then just hte sdl apps, and also includes browser plugins and services as well Jan 22 19:34:37 many of those techniques have been used for desktop and server computing but not handhelds due to power constraints Jan 22 19:35:05 oilsworkn: It's practically certain that the PDK will enable vendors to make apps that include NPAPI plugins Jan 22 19:35:15 however mobile apps have different distribution channel characteristics that potential allow for a more distributed model Jan 22 19:35:32 ... speaking generally Jan 22 19:37:31 oilsworkn: services are not included in the pdk Jan 22 19:37:48 oilsworkn: from what i hear so far Jan 22 19:38:04 huh Jan 22 19:39:17 yeah I doubt services will be supported Jan 22 19:39:40 and they're really not very needed when you have plugins Jan 22 19:39:51 assuming you're talking about stuff only your one app needs Jan 22 19:40:55 when you can make javascript function calls into your native code, why would you need to send dbus messages back and forth to it? Jan 22 19:41:11 is pixi snapier than pre? Jan 22 19:41:22 no Jan 22 19:41:30 JMyaDaGod: slower processor Jan 22 19:41:33 this pixi is responding very well lol Jan 22 19:41:33 pixi has a slower CPU Jan 22 19:41:56 destinal: true Jan 22 19:41:58 well it does deal with a smaller resolution Jan 22 19:49:41 Quick question about JSTop (I apologize if this has been answered before): Why are there often multiple instances of the phone, tasks, systemUI, etc? I am wary to kill any of the phone processes for fear that I may kill the whole phone app. Jan 22 19:50:25 again, if this has been answered or is in the forums, can you drop me a link Jan 22 19:52:01 rkguy: you can kill those processes if you want to. It just makes the phone app very unresponsive when you launch it again Jan 22 19:52:12 for about a minute or two Jan 22 19:53:29 azakus must have a notification on jstop :) Jan 22 19:53:47 yep :P Jan 22 19:54:12 i have all those pesky sounds turned off Jan 22 19:54:26 and at work, i have no speakers, lol Jan 22 19:54:48 however, i'm definately going to lunch Jan 22 19:55:48 my face is sticky from apple sauce Jan 22 19:56:44 lol Jan 22 19:58:29 I can't believe I lost my working awesometd build. Jan 22 19:59:34 zsoc: lost? Jan 22 20:00:05 destinal-pre: er... yes. as in gone in the depths of a corrupted chroot Jan 22 20:00:33 zsoc: go sbox2! Jan 22 20:01:12 does any1 know how to limit java cpu usage on winXP Jan 22 20:01:32 * zsoc never uses any java cpu on winxp, problem solved Jan 22 20:01:53 forced use of program, problem not solved Jan 22 20:02:10 command line params Jan 22 20:02:14 see help Jan 22 20:02:17 destinal-pre: it wasn't a whole lot of work, it was just inspired genius. I've spent an hour trying to recreate something I did in < 10 minutes Jan 22 20:02:52 but still,cross compile.. Jan 22 20:03:18 I used to build in a loopmounted chrooted dir Jan 22 20:03:23 damn palm, NOW you send out the email about 3D Games? Jan 22 20:03:27 really slow Jan 22 20:03:56 destinal: I have sb2, I also have a stage 3 gentoo and a debian chroot := Jan 22 20:04:02 whoever makes these mailing list emails is really not on the ball Jan 22 20:04:39 xcomp: ping Jan 22 20:04:40 zsoc: meh gentoo Jan 22 20:04:59 destinal-pre: stfu! Jan 22 20:05:36 I have built from stage1, I have room to talk :) Jan 22 20:06:08 bah, I'm not talkin anymore :p Jan 22 20:10:29 I like the idea and power of gentoo though Jan 22 20:12:44 windows novaterm program when did that start? Jan 22 20:13:03 months ago Jan 22 20:13:46 that reminds me, we need novaputty :) Jan 22 20:43:06 Windows novaterm was written back in november or so. Jan 22 20:44:11 JMyaDaGod 26-Jul-2009 Jan 22 20:47:16 oiiuyq890-asjku Jan 22 20:47:23 ? Jan 22 20:47:49 kk0' Jan 22 20:48:35 Rick_work : wasnt there directions on how to use in windows 7 in there or are they depricated now? Jan 22 20:49:45 JMyaDaGod there WERE instructions, but there is now a windows 7 VERSION linked on the page. Jan 22 20:49:49 Just download that. Jan 22 20:50:15 actually, sorry, it's 32bit or 64bit -- no diff as to versions. Jan 22 20:50:22 and the 1.3.5 sdk does away with needing special installatino instructions for windows7 for drivers. Jan 22 20:50:36 no im good i see how to do it was just wondering how long ive been doing it that way and didnt need to lol Jan 22 21:06:13 so everyone see the new boost mobile blackberry that came out today? Jan 22 21:06:18 whoops... Jan 22 21:06:58 $249 outright, 8330, CDMA, $60/month unlim talk/text/data Jan 22 21:12:26 sounds somewhat cheap Jan 22 21:25:35 howdy everyonee. Jan 22 21:27:04 Do newer boost phones still get messages like 10 hours late or is that just old ones? Jan 22 21:27:11 boost mobile Jan 22 21:27:12 ha Jan 22 21:27:20 rofl at boost mobile. Jan 22 21:27:30 the cell phone company for inner city youth Jan 22 21:27:35 yea i know lol Jan 22 21:27:58 but i am in the inner city and i have younger siblings that use it LOL Jan 22 21:28:32 but i know they got some older boost phones i wonder if the new berry is the same with taking forever to get messages Jan 22 21:29:00 i have a boost mobile backup phone Jan 22 21:29:12 do ur messages take forever? Jan 22 21:29:13 i use to get text messages from work on it Jan 22 21:29:16 never had that problem Jan 22 21:29:26 kind of phone? Jan 22 21:29:31 motorola forget the model Jan 22 21:29:35 its a cheap flip though Jan 22 21:29:47 got it for a backup for just in case type shit Jan 22 21:30:03 works fine far as i can tell Jan 22 21:30:07 ive seen my little sister get a message from 21 hours prior i sent her in the same house Jan 22 21:30:25 its old school IDEF though so like the nextel phones when it rings it adds interference to audio speakers nearby Jan 22 21:30:53 well Jan 22 21:30:57 if i remember correctly Jan 22 21:31:00 boost rides on sprint Jan 22 21:31:03 new boost is CDMA, no old iden issues. it's basically sprint Jan 22 21:31:11 yea Jan 22 21:31:14 and by basically I mean it IS sprint Jan 22 21:31:20 even IDEN did it was just sprint/nextels old network Jan 22 21:31:27 Anyone have troubles with sprint navigator at all? Occasionally mine will get "stuck" and be unable to grab a GPS signal. I've tried using ##gps# and run GoogleMaps and shutting app down and restarting it...it just doesn't get unstuck until I do a full restart. Any known solutions to this? Jan 22 21:31:42 Flashpass: go outside? Jan 22 21:31:58 ha, usually happens outdoors in my car Jan 22 21:32:29 Super clear view of the sky, and it only happens like, 25% of the time Jan 22 21:33:27 Just trying to see if anyone's figured out what fixes this, I thought i figured it out once with some combination of turning of autolocate and shutting the app down - but can't quite get it.. Jan 22 21:34:14 i've not had a problem with it Jan 22 21:34:15 sorry sir Jan 22 21:34:43 yea i think i had that happen once to me Flashpass but only once Jan 22 21:34:44 never had that problem either Jan 22 21:35:50 really...that stinks Jan 22 21:36:11 so it works for you all 100% of the time then? Jan 22 21:36:23 haha well the directions are not quite 100% Jan 22 21:36:28 but as far as GPS functionality goes yes Jan 22 21:36:34 in the city and in the sticks Jan 22 21:36:37 used it plenty Jan 22 21:36:44 anyone wanna donate a dollar and 7 cents to my paypal? :) Jan 22 21:36:45 my only problem with it Jan 22 21:36:47 hrm Jan 22 21:36:53 is that your battery dies in less than an hour running it Jan 22 21:36:54 haha Jan 22 21:37:02 yeah i did the touchstone in car thing haha Jan 22 21:37:15 the hotspot app kills battery like crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jan 22 21:37:17 i need a dollar and seven to buy something but i dont wanna wait for the 3 business days for my bank account to transfer money to my paypal Jan 22 21:37:40 paypal is satan Jan 22 21:37:44 I KNOW Jan 22 21:37:52 i sold my soul years ago. Jan 22 21:37:53 * loot_ holds a cross towards you and paypal Jan 22 21:38:21 paypal once blackmailed me for 6 months Jan 22 21:38:25 refusing to give me my funds Jan 22 21:38:33 until i updated my credit card number and address Jan 22 21:38:38 even though they already had my bank account # Jan 22 21:38:51 i was once told by a support person at paypal Jan 22 21:39:16 loot_: do you think something else could be interfering? something like wifi radio, or having mytether installed, or even being on touchstone when launching it? Jan 22 21:39:19 "sir, we are not a bank, we are not a financial institution... you will follow our guidelines or we will have to file a harassment suit against you." Jan 22 21:39:28 lmao Jan 22 21:40:54 PuffTheMagic_: pong Jan 22 21:41:04 sorry ... been really busy at work Jan 22 21:41:08 i'm on your patch now Jan 22 21:41:17 xcomp: i might have another one shortly Jan 22 21:41:26 xcomp: multi pointer devices arent really handled well Jan 22 21:41:34 yes, I know Jan 22 21:41:39 puffy have you tried the nexus Jan 22 21:42:03 i've actually been mulling how I can have ecore automatically generate "pinch" and "zoom" events from multitouch operations Jan 22 21:42:41 i have a nexus Jan 22 21:42:43 Towzzer: wtf is that Jan 22 21:42:54 xcomp: well i have added a device int to the event stuct for mouse options Jan 22 21:42:54 seriously? Jan 22 21:42:57 it's the google phone Jan 22 21:43:11 which i set to the pointer number from sdl Jan 22 21:43:16 Towzzer: yeah i dont really care about non-pre Jan 22 21:43:23 you are pre-hardcore? Jan 22 21:43:26 or precore Jan 22 21:43:26 pre = best. Jan 22 21:43:27 PuffTheMagic_: that i'm not sure we can put in svn Jan 22 21:43:28 it's an android, coined by phillip k dick in "do robots dream of electric sheep" Jan 22 21:43:29 PERIOUD Jan 22 21:43:34 or as americans say Jan 22 21:43:36 PERIOD Jan 22 21:43:37 its also a phone google is getting sued for Jan 22 21:43:44 xcomp: well i can still apply it in cross-compile Jan 22 21:43:49 PuffTheMagic_: the multitouch mouse stuff in sdl is palm patch Jan 22 21:43:59 s/palm patch/from the palm patch/ Jan 22 21:44:01 xcomp meant: PuffTheMagic_: the multitouch mouse stuff in sdl is from the palm patch Jan 22 21:44:12 xcomp: i dont think that is truue Jan 22 21:44:21 xcomp: i mean they just add multiple pointers Jan 22 21:44:24 each with 1 button Jan 22 21:44:28 i dont think that is anything special Jan 22 21:44:32 5 of them Jan 22 21:44:41 PuffTheMagic_: yes, but that stuff isn't in stock sdl Jan 22 21:44:56 and if it isn't in stock sdl it can't be supported in stock ecore Jan 22 21:45:00 oh well.. i can still apply it to our cross-compile thingy Jan 22 21:45:05 yes, that we can do Jan 22 21:45:25 I'll just add an ecore-webos-patch file Jan 22 21:45:55 xcomp: actually Jan 22 21:45:58 xcomp: i think its in 1.3 Jan 22 21:46:25 same structs? Jan 22 21:46:48 hmm....1.3 isn't official yet anyway Jan 22 21:47:02 close Jan 22 21:47:04 but anyway Jan 22 21:47:08 what we can do is Jan 22 21:47:35 add a define for SDL_13 Jan 22 21:47:47 at configure time Jan 22 21:48:03 but that wouldn't help our situation anyway Jan 22 21:48:12 because sdl is still 1.2 for webos Jan 22 21:48:33 i want webos 1.4 Jan 22 21:48:40 just thought i'd throw that out there. Jan 22 21:48:51 Tweet: devs in the early access program might want to check their dropboxes Jan 22 21:48:58 (from webosdev) Jan 22 21:49:21 Tweet: if 1.4 doesn't get leaked im going to pull my hair out. Jan 22 21:49:48 why would you want it leaked? it's going to be released in less than a month now Jan 22 21:50:00 im not patient Jan 22 21:50:02 AT ALL. Jan 22 21:50:08 besides, unless you're a developer, you wouldn't want to work with beta software :p Jan 22 21:50:50 isnt plus's coming with 1.4? Jan 22 21:51:08 no Jan 22 21:51:17 no, february is 1.4 release time .. monday is plus launch time Jan 22 21:51:18 arent plus's coming with 1.4 i thought the reviews are saying 1.3.5.1 for plus' Jan 22 21:51:54 o i damn i was hoping for 1.4 this weekend lol that sux..... Jan 22 21:52:19 my money is on Friday, February 19th Jan 22 21:52:50 why that day? Jan 22 21:53:12 his guess is as good as mine :P Jan 22 21:53:22 indeed it is - what's your guess, Decimate ? Jan 22 21:53:31 the 12th Jan 22 21:53:36 i just chose that day 10 seconds before i typed it .. Jan 22 21:53:41 based on it being a friday in february Jan 22 21:53:41 lol Jan 22 21:53:49 and kind of later in the month Jan 22 21:54:04 i chose the 12th because its friday Jan 22 21:54:15 and i hope it happens about halfway through the month Jan 22 21:54:35 that would be nice Jan 22 21:54:36 I think my upgrade might go to an HTC "Supersonic" Jan 22 21:55:24 ugh.. someone gave me 6 dollars on paypal as a refund for a payment i made Jan 22 21:55:28 and its not showing up Jan 22 21:55:35 i got the email saying i got the refund Jan 22 21:55:41 but it doesnt show up in my account yet :/ Jan 22 21:55:45 Did anyone else on sprint get the email for free month if u sign another 2 years? Jan 22 21:55:58 i once got 10% off for 2 years Jan 22 21:56:01 each month Jan 22 21:56:03 for extending Jan 22 21:56:19 do you get a discounted phone upgrade every year or 2 years? Jan 22 21:56:28 every year Jan 22 21:56:31 i'm a sprint premiere customer Jan 22 21:56:31 xcomp: the code i want to add to the sdl stuff is in 1.2 Jan 22 21:56:59 year for premiere..... i have recieved 4 upgrades in past 6 months because of sprints fuck ups Jan 22 21:57:06 on 2 lines of course Jan 22 21:57:12 i have a 25% employee discount Jan 22 21:57:15 from my job i left 2 years ago Jan 22 21:57:18 lol Jan 22 21:57:26 when it's over i will move somewhere lese Jan 22 21:57:28 i think Jan 22 21:57:38 i like sprint Jan 22 21:57:41 they are ok Jan 22 21:57:48 i think verizon has better coverage Jan 22 21:57:53 obviously. Jan 22 21:57:55 where i am Jan 22 21:57:56 for a lot more price Jan 22 21:58:12 JMyaDaGod: yeah they always mess up Jan 22 21:58:14 and cant fix it Jan 22 21:58:18 so they give u free shit Jan 22 21:58:19 i can get an internet connection in my school during class Jan 22 21:58:20 and discounts Jan 22 21:58:23 thats all that matters to me Jan 22 21:58:26 sprint coverage + free roaming... Jan 22 21:58:57 zsocwerkin: i updated the screenshot to the one running colored vim http://git.webos-internals.org/trac/terminus Jan 22 21:59:11 PuffTheMagic_: yea i went to radioshack to get my pre the put it on wrong line ,my wifes line, when they switched it to right line they put both upgrades back on Jan 22 22:00:36 she ordered a rant a about 6 months ago off sprint.com ..they didnt have color she wanted so they sent email backordered...she called change color and it didnt take from her upgrade ...i guess CS guy just sent it to her for free Jan 22 22:01:02 Rick_work: you around ? Jan 22 22:01:09 yep Jan 22 22:27:06 PuffTheMagic_: updated key events in svn Jan 22 22:27:52 you should take a look at the header after updating ... my changes were more extensive and consistent with other ecore libs Jan 22 22:30:38 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 22:30:38 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 22:30:39 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 22:30:42 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 22:30:45 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 22:30:46 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 22:30:46 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 22:30:48 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 22:30:48 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 22:30:51 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 22:30:51 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 22:30:53 mode +R plz Jan 22 22:30:54 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 22:30:54 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 22:30:56 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 22:30:59 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 22:31:00 uh oh...spambot invasion Jan 22 22:31:03 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 22:31:05 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 22:31:08 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 22:31:13 * dBsooner doesn't have op powers Jan 22 22:31:14 :) Jan 22 22:31:39 yeah, a k-line should do the trick Jan 22 22:31:58 someone was just talking about that damn bot in another channel i am on Jan 22 22:32:37 K-Line is even better than Op powers. Jan 22 22:32:39 so just all plz update your IE :p Jan 22 22:32:50 i dont even use ie Jan 22 22:32:55 What's IE? Jan 22 22:33:03 id est Jan 22 22:41:21 Hello all. Is there any kind of helpful documentation about the webos internals PDK for those that do not speak native Ubuntu? Jan 22 22:42:03 what you see on the wiki is about all there is for documentation there right now, actually Jan 22 22:42:21 I'm sure various people here can help you though if you have questions Jan 22 22:42:34 JasonLP: native ubuntu is as easy as it gets Jan 22 22:43:46 As far as actually using the pdk, hooking things into WebOS apps, etc., is there documentation? Jan 22 22:44:06 examples there are Jan 22 22:44:18 oh cool, thx Jan 22 22:44:28 Guess I have some fun plans for the weekend. :) Jan 22 22:45:14 Been trying to figure out how to get access to the official PDK. In the early access program but have been unable to get into the forums there. Jan 22 22:46:26 Are the forums still available? Jan 22 22:46:27 JasonLP: there is an email address in the official PDK announcement from Palm Jan 22 22:46:54 JasonLP: in the meantime webos-internals has released a development kit to get people started Jan 22 22:47:01 Yes, we sent an e-mail. Should we have heard back, or should I just continue to be patient? Jan 22 22:47:38 JasonLP: I've done the same a while ago and not heard back. I expect the program is not open yet. Jan 22 22:48:09 ok, thanks for the info. Jan 22 22:48:09 JasonLP: what are you planning to use the PDK for ? Jan 22 22:48:41 I have some encryption algorithms that I need to write in C/C++. Doing this is javascript performs horribly. Jan 22 22:49:16 what's the application? Jan 22 22:49:41 It's a password manager. Jan 22 22:51:06 hopefully an implementation of this: http://passwordmaker.org/ Jan 22 22:51:40 JasonLP: open or closed source? Jan 22 22:51:59 just got an email from da dude that sold me the palm pre, he can't remember the password of the profile, how can he retreive it? Jan 22 22:52:39 rwhitby: you get my reply? Jan 22 22:52:49 dBsooner: yep, it's all cool. Jan 22 22:53:10 :) Jan 22 22:53:30 rwhitby: just answer this: You like what I did? (yay or nay?) Jan 22 22:56:39 rwhitby: I always use password safe, which was designed by Bruce Schneier. Since he also designed Blowfish and basically wrote the book on modern cryptography, I think he knows what he's doing with it. :) Jan 22 22:56:45 should probably port it Jan 22 22:58:07 I use keepass Jan 22 22:59:08 i use my memory, short shitty passowrds Jan 22 22:59:41 PuffTheMagic_: way to go :) Jan 22 22:59:42 I've turned my keepass vault not into just a password safe, but also a scanned safe for important documents, hires copies of my ss card, license, birth certificate, etc Jan 22 23:00:20 Feel I'm missing something. Ran dropbearkey per the wiki to create the keys on the Pre. But anyone anywhere could ssh to it, right? Doesn't there need to be some kind of step like copying one of the keys to my client (desktop)? Jan 22 23:00:22 xcomp|foraging: mouse support for ecore/evas/sdl is wonky Jan 22 23:00:41 psykoz: so what you need is to port that to the pre and put cups and samba on your phone and be able to wander around printing things off of wifi networks :) Jan 22 23:00:58 to reproduce important documents at a moment's notice Jan 22 23:01:46 actually a lot of them are straight tcp so I guess you don't really need samba, are modern printers discoverable via zeroconf? Jan 22 23:02:00 hey guys anyone working on getting the mobile hotspot app working on sprint? Jan 22 23:02:35 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 23:02:35 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 23:02:36 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 23:02:39 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 23:02:42 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 23:02:46 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 23:02:48 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 23:02:51 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 23:02:54 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 23:02:57 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 23:03:00 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 23:03:03 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 23:03:06 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 23:03:09 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 23:03:12 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 23:03:29 NOBODY click on that Jan 22 23:03:37 +R plz until spam stops :) Jan 22 23:03:50 what the heck is that shite above? Jan 22 23:04:29 http://blog.freenode.net/2010/01/javascript-spam/ if you didn't read the global notice :) Jan 22 23:04:44 LoneStar99: Cross-protocol cross-site-request-forgery via javascript malware on that page, so it acts like a worm Jan 22 23:04:46 destinal, well I think it's just good to have copies of those, I've put them on a usb thumbdrive and put them in a safe deposit box that should never be able to catch fire and should withstand almost anything up to a nuclear holocaust Jan 22 23:04:57 in case I ever need to furnish copies of stuff to someone Jan 22 23:05:01 destinal: set mode +R Jan 22 23:05:16 if I had ops powers I'd do it Jan 22 23:08:21 dBsooner: the downside is a lot of people who may be coming here for help may not be registered or know how to offhand Jan 22 23:09:18 if we get any more though I will set it Jan 22 23:11:25 ironic that the spam attacks recommend that to protect against the spam attacks you should load the malware which causes them. Jan 22 23:11:47 destinal: I was thinking the same thing...lol Jan 22 23:12:54 destinal: quite ironic. Jan 22 23:13:53 Just like those popups that tell you your computer is infected and that you should use their "cleaner" Jan 22 23:14:10 Or "Antivirus 2010" Jan 22 23:14:13 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 23:14:13 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 23:14:14 Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution! Jan 22 23:14:16 Which tells you there is a virus Jan 22 23:14:26 and IT'S the virus Jan 22 23:14:26 There it goes again. Jan 22 23:14:48 destinal: +R shouldn't block the webchat Jan 22 23:15:08 which is what most "AM's" use Jan 22 23:15:08 ;) Jan 22 23:15:16 Anyone who isn't registered, /msg NickServ help Jan 22 23:15:34 what is the point of the spam anyway? it is just creating more spam? Jan 22 23:15:47 Tibfib: I am sure it loads a backdoor. Jan 22 23:15:58 dbsooner: ah. that's it Jan 22 23:16:00 Tibfib: I'm told it loads images from goatse and other awful pornography Jan 22 23:16:16 as well as makes your computer blast out loud that you're watching gay porn Jan 22 23:16:22 ooh porn, lemme go click that! Jan 22 23:16:33 lol Jan 22 23:16:43 notice how destinal prefaced it with "i'm told" Jan 22 23:16:44 Why are humans so gullible? Jan 22 23:17:08 dBsooner: I did NOT load it, I did wget it and read some of the malware to understand it Jan 22 23:17:13 Why do they sacrifice quality to make things "User Friendly" Jan 22 23:17:19 Because we asked for it Jan 22 23:17:49 Anyone that learned how to use the internet before AOL came out understands not to just click on anything. Jan 22 23:17:58 Its our own fault for this. lol Jan 22 23:17:59 lol Jan 22 23:18:07 zomg Jan 22 23:18:27 ok, registered Jan 22 23:18:28 But if my computer is infecteeddd! I must stop it! Jan 22 23:19:19 From my experience... Its more like... My computers infected... I must bother my neighbor while he's in a hurry to get somewhere and ask him to fix my computer, and say when are you going to be available. Jan 22 23:19:28 dBsooner: sorry, temporary :( Jan 22 23:19:35 ?!?! Jan 22 23:19:36 :( Jan 22 23:19:40 test Jan 22 23:19:48 --> Wata'coola' I go Jan 22 23:19:49 the URL was cropped off anyway :p Jan 22 23:19:51 forget install.preware.org Jan 22 23:19:57 ryan_gahl: works :) Jan 22 23:19:57 I'm more important Jan 22 23:20:31 drop off the pastebin Jan 22 23:20:31 glad i peaked in here when i did ;) Jan 22 23:20:35 it's not that important Jan 22 23:20:39 OK, WHAT'D I MISS?! Jan 22 23:20:55 zsoc: spam worm thing Jan 22 23:21:00 destinal: oh... gone now? Jan 22 23:21:06 I want ops! :( Jan 22 23:21:18 zsoc: I changed the channel to +R Jan 22 23:21:24 registered speakers only Jan 22 23:21:27 nah.. I don't need it. Jan 22 23:21:31 Ah, +R is good. Jan 22 23:22:09 destinal: drop pastebin for my link. :) Jan 22 23:22:16 any1 have experience enabling VT-x ? Jan 22 23:22:46 ryan_gahl: experience? bios setting usually :) Jan 22 23:22:50 (Intel Virtualization accelration) Jan 22 23:22:54 ryan_gahl: I didn't know VT-x was available on a webOS device .... Jan 22 23:23:17 right, i enabled it in BIOS and Virtualbox not picking it up Jan 22 23:23:44 +rwhitby: for my dev env -- trying to get Virtualbox running faster Jan 22 23:24:53 i have the ARM es1.1 and 2.0 emulators all set up and VT-x not working is also preventing that to work Jan 22 23:24:57 was testing-R-access someone trying to speak from webchat? Jan 22 23:25:23 phone signed me out of my palm profile last night for no apparent reason Jan 22 23:25:28 and now im reinstalling stuff Jan 22 23:25:36 got preware up and running, but its only pulling 2 feeds Jan 22 23:25:45 optware and webos-internals Jan 22 23:25:49 how can i get the rest of the feeds? Jan 22 23:26:45 +dtzWill: after enabling in BIOS have you had to physically cycle machine power? i just did F10 save and exit and figured it would pick it up Jan 22 23:27:35 ryan_gahl: cycling sounds good. i honestly don't remember--it's something i usually set on a new mobo, confirm it works, and don't bother with again Jan 22 23:27:57 kk, will try cycling _just_in_case_ ;) brb Jan 22 23:28:00 CorpX: "Manage Feeds", make sure they aren't turned off? Jan 22 23:28:47 Do I have to give root a password on the Pre before I can ssh into it from my desktop? Jan 22 23:29:31 lordbah: key authentication is the suggested method Jan 22 23:29:44 zsoc: only 2 feeds appear there Jan 22 23:30:27 now its saying package manager is not there Jan 22 23:30:32 zsoc: So I took my public key from my desktop and put it in /home/root/.ssh/authorized_keys on the Pre. Tried ssh pre -l root. Pre log shows it complaining that root has a blank password and it failed. Jan 22 23:30:41 CorpX: interesting... well I believe the conf files for those feeds exist in /media/cryptofs/apps/etc/ipkg/info (i could be wrong).. but the easy "Fix" (minus actually playing with things) is to simple reinstall the ipkgservice Jan 22 23:30:44 destinal: yes, testing-R-access was me Jan 22 23:30:59 and it couldn't speak Jan 22 23:31:12 rwhitby: oh that won't do :( Jan 22 23:31:26 CorpX: reinstall package manager service using webos quick install 2.96 or later Jan 22 23:31:31 ok Jan 22 23:31:37 just did Jan 22 23:31:50 lordbah: install openssh server from Preware Jan 22 23:32:28 rwhitby: I installed Dropbear from Preware. Remove that and install openssh instead? Jan 22 23:32:36 yep Jan 22 23:34:13 it was wierd Jan 22 23:34:26 any idea why it signed me out of my palm profile automatically Jan 22 23:34:30 last night Jan 22 23:35:52 called sprint and she says "glitches in the software" Jan 22 23:35:53 ugh Jan 22 23:37:47 now it says webos package manager not installed Jan 22 23:38:05 even though i just installed it using webos quick install Jan 22 23:38:28 and rebooted Jan 22 23:38:44 doctor it? Jan 22 23:38:46 is there any reason to use dropbear over ssh? Jan 22 23:38:54 hmm.. what was the version of ipkgservice that fixed that old crufting issue? Jan 22 23:39:28 CorpX: that's is probably not necessary, but if you're willing it's the easiest fix for us i'm sure :P Do you have command line access? We could try the bootstrap (to make sure i'ts not an issue with wosqi) Jan 22 23:40:42 no cmd line :( Jan 22 23:47:43 I already use VB 3.1 and have some machines I can't delete ATM, so How can I run the SDK in 3.1? Jan 22 23:48:29 CorpX: did you run the postinst when you installed? Jan 22 23:48:32 Thanks. ssh working, and once I installed openssh-sftp-server, gftp from Ubuntu works too. Jan 22 23:48:52 CorpX: i mean wosqi generally asks if you want to run the postinstall script (yes or no) Jan 22 23:49:04 lordbah: good to hear :) Jan 22 23:50:20 rwhitby: I think we should give this worm infection some time to burn itself out with K-lines and then we can take -R back off Jan 22 23:50:32 rwhitby: maybe we should watch #freenode for signs of it leveling off Jan 22 23:50:46 postinst? Jan 22 23:50:49 i dont think so Jan 22 23:51:00 destinal: sure Jan 22 23:51:00 where is that? Jan 22 23:51:10 CorpX: can you please double check the version of wosqi? You're looking for 2.96 Jan 22 23:51:20 yes im running 2.96 Jan 22 23:51:31 CorpX: so you said "no" to running the postinst script? Jan 22 23:51:58 i do not know what postinst is Jan 22 23:52:03 so i dont think i ran it Jan 22 23:52:10 CorpX: which set of instructions are you following? Jan 22 23:52:15 precentrals? Jan 22 23:52:16 rwhitby: in theory he could try running it from the 'command line' thingy in wosqi... even if there's no process subscription... Jan 22 23:52:16 URL please Jan 22 23:52:27 http://www.precentral.net/getting-started-preware Jan 22 23:53:21 zsoc: when debugging problems, I find it's best to determine whether the person has followed the official instructions correctly before suggesting unsupported alternativs. Jan 22 23:53:46 is precentral's not good anymore? Jan 22 23:54:14 CorpX: that is the correct URL Jan 22 23:54:47 when you did the Install Preware section, did wosqi ask you a question, and how did you respond to that question? Jan 22 23:55:17 no question Jan 22 23:55:30 see, i had preware installed fine before, then my phone decided to log me out of the blue last night Jan 22 23:55:36 so im just trying to "reinstall" it Jan 22 23:55:52 should i just doctor it? Jan 22 23:55:58 Anyone? Jan 22 23:56:14 N3O9Pr: the instructions say 3.0.x, right? Jan 22 23:56:22 CorpX: use the device management tool to remove both package manager service and preware. then reinstall. Jan 22 23:56:26 rwhitby: Yes. Jan 22 23:57:04 N3O9Pr: there's threads on developer.palm.com that discuss the issue. unless you are a VBoxManage expert, you cannot use 3.1.x Jan 22 23:57:17 anyone know why I get an error when installing vba about epoch in version is not number? Jan 22 23:57:26 rwhitby: i cant Jan 22 23:57:29 i tried that Jan 22 23:57:33 device manager says neither are installed Jan 22 23:57:48 rwhitby: Can I at least run both versions at the same time or something? Jan 22 23:57:49 CorpX: which device manager? Jan 22 23:57:53 N3O9Pr: no Jan 22 23:58:10 Well.. Thats inconvient and behind security practices Jan 22 23:58:18 N3O9Pr: yup Jan 22 23:58:18 Lol Jan 22 23:58:24 device management, i mean in quick install Jan 22 23:58:37 CorpX: are you sure you're running 2.96 ? Jan 22 23:58:49 rwhitby: Well thank you for your response. Jan 22 23:59:00 wait Jan 22 23:59:01 nope Jan 22 23:59:03 2.6 Jan 22 23:59:07 sigh Jan 22 23:59:13 rwhitby: that seems to be a common mistake Jan 22 23:59:13 that was the latest on the precentral thread :( Jan 22 23:59:36 CorpX: there should be a link of the top of that thread's first post that points you to a new thread for 2.96 Jan 22 23:59:38 CorpX: wrong thread. that's why i never accept 'latest' as a valid response to "which version are you running?" Jan 22 23:59:54 rwhitby: it would almost be easier for us to distribute wosqi :P Jan 23 00:00:01 sry Jan 23 00:00:11 CorpX: please email Jason and ask him to add those pointers. Tell him how much time you wasted cause the pointers are not there in the threads that he controls. Jan 23 00:01:24 lol Jan 23 00:01:42 CorpX: actually, it's not a laughing matter. Jan 23 00:01:53 just delete the old versions ;) Jan 23 00:02:00 or add a redirect Jan 23 00:02:19 CorpX: that's why I'm asking you to email Jason. we don't own or control or maintain that tool/. Jan 23 00:02:24 N3O9Pr: also you can install 3.0.x, make your emulator work with palm-emulator etc, then you can upgrade virtualbox, so long as you are willing to downgrade it again if you ever want to manage it with palm-emulator (reset it, update it, install another palm VM, etc) Jan 23 00:02:40 ok Jan 23 00:02:42 will do Jan 23 00:02:48 it's mainly just the palm-emulator command that doesn't work with 3.0.x Jan 23 00:02:56 s/0.x/1.x/ Jan 23 00:02:57 destinal meant: it's mainly just the palm-emulator command that doesn't work with 3.1.x Jan 23 00:03:09 i hope preware can "see" the patches i install before palm logged me out Jan 23 00:03:33 CorpX: that's all based on a static file, you should have no problems there. Jan 23 00:03:56 ok Jan 23 00:04:32 talked to palm about being auto logged out and they said that somebody else might have logged in using my ID, which would suck Jan 23 00:04:50 N3O9Pr: you don't need the palm-emulator command to casually run the VM once it gets installed by that command, you can just run Vbox and start it Jan 23 00:04:56 CorpX: that is too the only ting i can think of that would cause that Jan 23 00:05:13 my pass is pretty hard to guess Jan 23 00:05:15 CorpX: have you ever replaced your device? Jan 23 00:05:17 yeap Jan 23 00:05:21 N3O9Pr: but unfortunately I think once a VM gets updated BY 3.1.x, it will never work in 3.0.x again (pretty lame) Jan 23 00:05:29 two weeks after i got it, and i didnt log out when i swapped it :( Jan 23 00:05:31 CorpX: your old device may have somehow got turned on / signed on via wifi automagically. Jan 23 00:05:52 preware is not picking up the patches that were installed prior Jan 23 00:06:05 destinal: Aye... I'll figure something out. Jan 23 00:06:13 i have virtual keyboard installed and working, but preware says its not installed Jan 23 00:06:26 CorpX: prior to what? Jan 23 00:06:40 prior to being logged out of palm profile Jan 23 00:06:41 CorpX, that's probably because you used QI 2.6 Jan 23 00:06:58 errr Jan 23 00:07:05 should i install virtual keyboard again? Jan 23 00:07:06 if you did partial erase? Jan 23 00:07:12 no, i did not erase anything Jan 23 00:07:17 "being logged out of palm profile" I don't know what that means Jan 23 00:07:20 it logged me out and i logged back in Jan 23 00:07:28 egaudet: wosqi 2.6 breaks status files?! Jan 23 00:07:40 zsoc, it installs to /var I believe Jan 23 00:07:44 egaudet: i get the phone in the morning and it has a message saying "You have been logged out of your palm profile. press OK to restart your phone" Jan 23 00:07:47 egaudet: oh. hm. Jan 23 00:07:57 CorpX, weird Jan 23 00:08:19 ok going to install keyboard again Jan 23 00:09:52 erro patching Jan 23 00:10:21 CorpX: of course, because it's already installed Jan 23 00:10:26 yeap Jan 23 00:10:36 great Jan 23 00:10:36 egaudet: hey... will your utility thing fix this? Jan 23 00:10:42 this might be a good test Jan 23 00:10:49 http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/226302-why-we-getting-so-many-stuck-patches-themes-some-possible-answers.html#post2170566 Jan 23 00:10:53 so is there any way to make preware realize that it is installed? Jan 23 00:11:07 egaudet: what name did you decide for that thing anyway? Jan 23 00:11:26 The ERU "might" fix it, if it was installed to cryptofs and not var Jan 23 00:11:30 heya... what's the diff between a p100eww doctor and a p100ueu doctor?? Jan 23 00:11:40 does it have to do with the diff UMTS freqs? Jan 23 00:11:42 but it will also wipe the status file and "fix" everything Jan 23 00:11:47 egaudet: it can't possibly hurt, no? Jan 23 00:11:55 depends what you define as "hurt" Jan 23 00:11:57 i mean he was going to doctor anyway Jan 23 00:12:22 no need to doctor if the keyboard works you just need the ipkg data Jan 23 00:12:36 rwhitby: look up ^^ Jan 23 00:12:47 egaudet: how could i get the ipkg data Jan 23 00:12:51 so... he should run the eru... Jan 23 00:13:03 you can probably get by with a hackaround, try to install VKB from preware, when it prompts you to run script close preware Jan 23 00:13:14 CorpX: full erase and doctor. Jan 23 00:13:25 CorpX: save your files from the USB drive first Jan 23 00:14:02 oh rod, always saving us from wasting time with our idiosyncratic needs to discuss little issues people run into Jan 23 00:14:10 egaudet: let me try that Jan 23 00:14:18 rwhitby: ill try that if last suggestion fails Jan 23 00:14:46 zsoc: he used wosqi 2.6, which would have installed patches to /var, and who knows what else got installed to /var and then migrated. Jan 23 00:14:49 egaudet: for future reference, why would running the eru be bad? I mean... in theory.. it should "update" a status file to be accurate based on what's installed. Jan 23 00:14:50 can anyone reproduce craig's claim that using messaging while installing a messaging patch or removing messaging patch screws things up? Jan 23 00:15:04 rwhitby: true... why is 2.6 still available for download? Jan 23 00:15:06 zsoc, not really "bad" but it doesn't contain all the information Jan 23 00:15:10 like it is missing maintainer Jan 23 00:15:17 ah.. hmm.. Jan 23 00:15:20 zsoc: that's a question for it's author, not for me. Jan 23 00:15:40 so if only one out of a bunch of packages are messed up, then I'd prefer personally not ERU but others could differ Jan 23 00:15:40 zsoc: and anyway, lots of people have it installed. Jan 23 00:15:45 got it Jan 23 00:16:17 zsoc: jason is adding update notification in wosqi 3 Jan 23 00:16:41 zsoc: the way I approach things is this: Jan 23 00:17:21 1) If someone has followed all the instructions perfectly, and things don't work, then I will go to extreme lengths to help them (cause that will help find a missing part of the instructions or a bug in the tools) Jan 23 00:17:48 2) If someone has not followed the instructions, then I will ask them to full erase and doctor and start again. That's their penance. Jan 23 00:18:34 rwhitby: not rewarding laziness / inattention by lots of extra effort to recover them? Jan 23 00:18:37 confess your sins, sinners!! you're sick and need to see the doctor because of your sins... it's too obvious Jan 23 00:19:11 destinal: yup Jan 23 00:20:49 grndslm: eww vs ueu is sprint cdma vs eu gsm Jan 23 00:21:51 How does running javascript work, if an app is running the entire javascript is loaded into memory. If it needs to be swapped in/out of memory would it re-read from the filesystem? Jan 23 00:22:08 I don't see why people are doctor-averse, it's not usually much inconvenience for me Jan 23 00:22:10 rwhitby: i ask because i see on the webos doctor versions page that there's an eww for telcel (gsm) and also a 1.1.3 for O2 Jan 23 00:22:45 grndslm: no idea then :-) Jan 23 00:22:47 put in palm profile password, a couple of email passwords, preware, a few patches, and I'm up and running Jan 23 00:23:24 destinal: and in the future S&R will pick up anything else Jan 23 00:24:08 rwhitby: the o2/wr version jumps from p100eww-1.1.3 to p100ueu-1.3.1 Jan 23 00:24:14 that's the only version that switches to ueu Jan 23 00:24:17 pretty odd Jan 23 00:24:25 rwhitby: sure. do the games not store data on cryptofs then? Jan 23 00:24:29 and if not, why not? Jan 23 00:24:31 :) Jan 23 00:25:44 i take it that ueu *is* for UMTS Jan 23 00:25:54 or different version of UMTS or something Jan 23 00:26:53 Does wget fail gracefully within ipkg install Jan 23 00:27:13 for instance in the middle of the wget over EVDO, a call comes in and interrupts data Jan 23 00:27:29 it should timeout Jan 23 00:27:54 or get a receive error Jan 23 00:28:37 destinal: they do, but I had a case where my profile got logged out, and the phone made me reboot, and it wiped cryptofs Jan 23 00:28:55 u got logged out too? Jan 23 00:29:04 was it last night? Jan 23 00:29:12 CorpX: mine was intentional, a couple of days ago Jan 23 00:29:16 ok Jan 23 00:29:35 rwhitby: happens when you use profile on another device? Jan 23 00:29:40 destinal: yes Jan 23 00:30:06 test Jan 23 00:30:23 rwhitby: did it wipe /media/internal also? Jan 23 00:30:52 or can we use that for a destination location for S&R data? Jan 23 00:31:40 destinal: it did not wipe internal, and that is where S&R data goes Jan 23 00:31:45 cool Jan 23 00:32:07 rwhitby: does the channel topic truncate for you? Jan 23 00:32:43 ...test 2 (IDENT work?) Jan 23 00:33:01 yes Jan 23 00:33:27 destinal: fyi, finally gave up on local dev for now - the only problem is that i'm virtualizing - will have to deploy to device for testing until i get a proper dedicated box for that Jan 23 00:33:29 any of u guys running pre+ ? Jan 23 00:34:08 s/local dev/local testing/ Jan 23 00:34:09 ryan_gahl meant: destinal: fyi, finally gave up on local testing for now - the only problem is that i'm virtualizing - will have to deploy to device for testing until i get a proper dedicated box for that Jan 23 00:34:44 CorpX: My Pre is very very special to me ... That makes it a + Jan 23 00:34:56 CorpX: what is that? Jan 23 00:38:38 destinal: yo! Jan 23 00:39:23 the verizon version? Jan 23 00:47:41 PuffTheMagic_: sup! Jan 23 00:48:09 ryan_gahl: I heard Virtualbox has some experimental opengl pasthrough stuff Jan 23 00:48:09 destinal: my last commit in terminus introduced some minimal modifier key tracking and cursor color changing Jan 23 00:53:51 ok i just doctored! Jan 23 00:54:35 destinal: so shift lock works Jan 23 00:54:43 but i have to do something for alt Jan 23 00:54:48 so that the numbers work locked Jan 23 00:54:50 lol wuts Jan 23 00:54:56 i just doctored and preware is still there? Jan 23 00:55:10 CorpX: ipkgservice aint Jan 23 00:55:57 music is still there too Jan 23 00:56:08 best way to install something to /media/internal in an ipkg? postinst script? Jan 23 00:56:11 CoprX: the doctor doesn't erase the media drive Jan 23 00:56:26 media/internal* Jan 23 00:56:55 ok Jan 23 00:57:00 CorpX: you need to partial or full erase before a doctor Jan 23 00:57:10 partial to remove apps, full to remove media too Jan 23 00:57:27 dtzWill: yeah, postinst is really the only way Jan 23 00:57:44 (since ipkg offline root is /media/cryptofs/apps) Jan 23 00:57:47 should i do it now and then doctor again? Jan 23 00:58:07 CorpX: if you want a guaranteed clean device, yes. Jan 23 00:58:20 rwhitby: yeah just found that out heh. great okay ty. wanted to make sure there wasn't a cleaner way. Jan 23 00:58:23 i just want preware/patches to work Jan 23 00:58:44 so i doctored and preware remains. do i need to isntall package service using quick install? Jan 23 00:59:46 CorpX: if you don't have a clean device to start with, you'll never know whether patches will work or not Jan 23 01:00:10 ok so erase completely, then doctor again? Jan 23 01:00:24 yep Jan 23 01:06:39 any word on pre plus price sans contract? Jan 23 01:06:40 PuffTheMagic_: Why do you have to do something for alt? Jan 23 01:08:13 jacques: that extra memory would come in really handy for doing custom linux stuff with, wouldn't it. way more valuable to us than most users, I'd say Jan 23 01:08:35 destinal, yes, it would make a perfect dev phone Jan 23 01:09:03 jacques: I'm really hoping that palm does some direct sales of it to developers AS a dev phone Jan 23 01:09:30 destinal, that would be excellent. Jan 23 01:10:19 heck, I paid $500 for my Nokia N800 - the Pre is much more fun (nothing against the N800) Jan 23 01:12:07 apparently it was getting truncated on some relays Jan 23 01:12:13 thanks. Jan 23 01:12:23 dBsooner: no problem Jan 23 01:13:32 jacques: heh, I have an n800 here doing nothing too Jan 23 01:13:47 I should make a chumby out of it Jan 23 01:14:24 my N800 is my wifi finder now Jan 23 01:14:54 a wifi finder which can play mahjongg (sp) Jan 23 01:15:02 infobot, spell mahjong Jan 23 01:15:04 possible spellings for mahjong: Mekong mahjong's making Magog marking Sejong Macon Macons Kong gong mange mango mangy Marconi Cong Jung Monk gang monk mung Majorca Macon's Mekong's Jan 23 01:15:25 infobot, that was no help whatsoever Jan 23 01:16:07 rwhitby: Did you notice this thread (http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/226302-why-we-getting-so-many-stuck-patches-themes-some-possible-answers.html#post2170566) on PreCentral yet? Jan 23 01:16:20 bclancy: yep, and egaudet has replied Jan 23 01:18:04 rwhitby: I made a suggestion that maybe Preware could have a nag screen warning users to stop other programs and go to airplane mode (for best results). Jan 23 01:18:52 rwhitby: of course the nag screen could have a switch (like a checkbox) to "not show me this in the future" Jan 23 01:19:16 hey guys the next button on webos doctor is greyed out. how should i proceed? Jan 23 01:19:20 bclancy: I'd like to see a confirmation of the theories, and determination of whether any problem can actually just be fixed first, since people don't read the existing splash screen. Jan 23 01:19:21 rwhitby: this might orevent some problems for people. Jan 23 01:19:57 http://i49.tinypic.com/ae3335.jpg <- greyed out button Jan 23 01:20:29 rwhitby: absolutely. I just wanted to make sure you were aware of milo's effort and to suggest the warning idea if his theories are confirmed. :thumbsup: Jan 23 01:21:50 destinal: cause for the orange+ events the keycode is different Jan 23 01:23:22 PuffTheMagic_: you can still detect the orange press and alter any future regular keys like shift does -- or was that what you were suggesting? Jan 23 01:24:03 jacques: I've heard people say the N900 was a step down from N800, was the tablet layout really good on those? Jan 23 01:24:32 CorpX: are you in recovery mode? Jan 23 01:24:40 no Jan 23 01:24:46 im at the normal start screen on pre Jan 23 01:26:42 destinal, wow, I heard that in some ways about the N810, but not the N900 ... I wonder that their specific complaints were Jan 23 01:27:14 should i reboot pc? Jan 23 01:27:16 the pre? Jan 23 01:27:17 maybe the size thing... N900 has smaller screen I think Jan 23 01:27:52 the N800 is really IMHO too big for a phone tho, which is why the N900 is smaller (tho maybe thicker) Jan 23 01:28:37 gonna reboot pc Jan 23 01:32:05 destinal: this is what happens Jan 23 01:32:27 I vote for Themes being just that.. IMAGE themes. Jan 23 01:33:26 destinal: press d sdl gives (string=d,modifiers=0), press shift+d sdl gives (string=d, modifiers=1), press orange+d sdl gives (string=4, modifers=4) Jan 23 01:33:48 but it also gives a key press when the orange comes down too right? Jan 23 01:33:53 just for orange itself Jan 23 01:33:58 destinal: yes but Jan 23 01:34:05 destinal: that would mean i would have to either Jan 23 01:34:06 that's what we used for lock Jan 23 01:34:11 hold on Jan 23 01:34:12 in terminal Jan 23 01:34:17 there are 2 ways to do this Jan 23 01:34:32 maintain mappings Jan 23 01:34:36 staticly Jan 23 01:34:40 like d = 4 Jan 23 01:34:59 or trigger evas to generate a new event somehow Jan 23 01:35:06 but idk how that is gonna work Jan 23 01:35:13 so i guess its gonna be a static map Jan 23 01:35:15 shit is fugly Jan 23 01:35:18 yup Jan 23 01:35:23 we did that in terminal too. Jan 23 01:35:26 very ugly but works Jan 23 01:35:42 probably best to do in evas Jan 23 01:35:48 so we don't have to keep reinventing the wheel Jan 23 01:36:09 its still greyed out Jan 23 01:36:11 speaking of terminal.. I know it's easy to fix with .bashrc and stuff.. but have you thought about adding a menu setting to set the terminal's PROMPT to be shorter? Jan 23 01:36:27 i leave the phone in just charge, right Jan 23 01:37:11 dBsooner: thought about it, haven't decided to implement it with an environment variables screen or one for macros Jan 23 01:37:14 CorpX, yes Jan 23 01:37:30 CorpX: unplug the usb cord from computer and phone.. pull battery. Jan 23 01:37:38 plug cord into computer, plug cord into phone Jan 23 01:37:45 should get the battery with question mark Jan 23 01:37:58 then press and hold the volume up key while inserting battery Jan 23 01:38:04 should get the USB logo Jan 23 01:38:09 ok Jan 23 01:38:20 Then the option should go clickable Jan 23 01:38:30 dBsooner: I normally recommend pull battery, put battery back in, hold the volume up key while inserting cable Jan 23 01:38:36 but either way works Jan 23 01:38:49 Yea, I am just used to doing it this way. Jan 23 01:39:03 It's the way Chuq made me do it one day back long ago. Jan 23 01:39:06 When I was a newb. Jan 23 01:39:27 destinal: Go macros.. so i can set aliases easily too. Jan 23 01:39:41 probably seeing the battery logo is part of their troubleshooting process Jan 23 01:39:48 well aliases would actually be environment variable though Jan 23 01:39:50 it means USB is connected and providing power Jan 23 01:40:04 but it's not really needed to get into recovery per se Jan 23 01:40:16 Nope, it's just the "documented" way Jan 23 01:40:27 a self-check if you will.. like you say. Jan 23 01:40:31 right Jan 23 01:40:43 I also found on Win7 64bit, it helps to reboot. Jan 23 01:41:00 dBsooner: you probably just need to stop and start the Palm Novacom service Jan 23 01:41:09 if it still doesn't show up in recovery mode Jan 23 01:41:17 destinal: for some reason the service hangs Jan 23 01:41:29 oh, and won't even STOP? Jan 23 01:41:30 destinal: won't respond to a stop or start request. Jan 23 01:41:33 ah Jan 23 01:41:46 stop and start works most times, if it didn't work then yeah restart Jan 23 01:41:48 pc Jan 23 01:41:53 it happens when the Doctor tries uninstalling/reinstalling the driver so many times. Jan 23 01:42:06 I usually just point people to the wiki page .... Jan 23 01:42:08 Which happens to me a lot. Silly SDK's. Jan 23 01:42:18 well my name isn't Rod. Jan 23 01:42:21 rwhitby: :) Jan 23 01:42:33 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/How_To_Recover Jan 23 01:42:42 * dBsooner goes to see if Rod wrote that. Jan 23 01:42:48 rwhitby: but then we wouldn't have had the interesting conversation on what chuq said some time way back when Jan 23 01:42:55 :P Jan 23 01:43:05 yeah.. it was more of "See.. I got important info and you don't" Jan 23 01:43:14 I couldn't have thrown out Chuq's name. Jan 23 01:43:43 I like our standard method better but I can see how theirs serves them better for sanity test Jan 23 01:43:47 I wonder how firefox 3.6 javascript speed compares to chrome Jan 23 01:43:59 s/chrome/chromium/ Jan 23 01:44:00 jacques meant: I wonder how firefox 3.6 javascript speed compares to chromium Jan 23 01:49:08 ok im doctoring Jan 23 01:49:09 thnx guys Jan 23 01:50:39 Cool.. GL Jan 23 01:57:08 Spam bots are still active on lots of major channels, so we can't consider removing +R for a good while yet, I think Jan 23 01:58:00 People who spend their efforts causing grief like this are a blight on the planet IMO Jan 23 01:59:26 At least on February 1st they're going to be replacing hyperion with ircd-seven which will totally eliminate this particular attack Jan 23 02:03:30 hyperion is very prone to this Jan 23 02:04:10 yeah, if it only required a ping response before talking they could eliminate this. or if it detected the verb HTTP at the beginning of any command and disconnected Jan 23 02:04:25 which is what ircd-seven does IIRC Jan 23 02:05:06 I think your right. Jan 23 02:05:48 OH Jan 23 02:05:48 GOD Jan 23 02:05:53 CANT RESTORE MY DATA Jan 23 02:05:57 palm fail Jan 23 02:07:53 nm false alarm Jan 23 02:07:55 its all good Jan 23 02:08:10 CorpX: lol. good Jan 23 02:10:13 * dBsooner didn't want to be mean and say, "Sorry." Jan 23 02:10:48 dBsooner: err the verb POST I meant, sorry Jan 23 02:11:09 lol Jan 23 02:11:31 because HTTP isn't really a verb Jan 23 02:11:43 its more of an acronym.. or noun. Jan 23 02:12:28 man I LOVE this radio station. Jan 23 02:12:37 http://www.genxtulsa.com/ Jan 23 02:12:41 just had to throw a shout out. Jan 23 02:13:48 bbl Jan 23 02:14:49 my phone is running HOT Jan 23 02:14:51 my pre has started notifying me that it has an alarm set for tomorrow - not sure why Jan 23 02:15:31 does palm backup the dupe merging between google/facebook ? Jan 23 02:16:08 CorpX: doctoring and restoring everything will make that thing heat up Jan 23 02:21:04 PuffTheMagic_: did you write this Terminus thing? Jan 23 02:21:25 damn it i lost all my mileage tracker info Jan 23 02:21:26 damn Jan 23 02:21:27 tlp: no i forked a dead projects and started making it work for the Pre Jan 23 02:21:32 ah Jan 23 02:21:33 tlp: so im "working" on it Jan 23 02:21:37 but i dindt write it from scratch Jan 23 02:22:54 destinal-sleep: latest commit splits the cursor in half top color is shift and bottom is orange Jan 23 02:22:55 :D Jan 23 02:25:46 tlp: why? Jan 23 02:28:40 just curious, since I'd never heard of it before Jan 23 02:29:22 maybe 5 or so years ago, I was fairly interested in GGI/SDL terminals. Jan 23 02:32:33 zsoc|away: shift works :D Jan 23 02:35:37 is there any way to back up app data? Jan 23 02:38:28 CorpX: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Save_and_Restore is being worked on slowly. We need someone to write a front-end to it Jan 23 02:41:55 rwhitby: is that an on pre front-ent? Jan 23 02:51:31 PuffTheMagic_: yep **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jan 23 02:59:57 2010