**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 02 02:59:58 2010 Feb 02 03:27:59 has anyone looked into pulling the verizon carrier data out of the pre plus doctor image to throw it into the pre doctor image? Feb 02 03:29:58 I thought the doctors would be equivalent except for the carrier packages Feb 02 03:33:53 howdy Feb 02 03:35:29 the pre plus doctor image wont work on the pre due to checksums Feb 02 03:40:14 checksums of what? Feb 02 03:40:27 they have different booties? Feb 02 03:40:46 Abyssul, you get your ssh figured out Feb 02 03:42:49 different model numbers and hardware Feb 02 03:43:33 i'm assuming it checks the model number or serial before flashing Feb 02 03:44:20 metadata has options to remove carrier and model check I believe Feb 02 03:44:45 err meta doctor sorry Feb 02 03:45:14 i'm assuming the root image for the pre-plus doctor is different than the root image for the pre though due to differences in ram and directory sizes Feb 02 03:46:30 I'm not too sure about that Feb 02 03:46:42 linux works regardless of ram size Feb 02 03:47:46 it's webos 1.3.5.1, so I believe it's all the same software. The doctor just has checks for carrier, model and adds carrier customization I believe Feb 02 03:47:47 partition sizes maybe, ram size probably not Feb 02 03:48:25 partition sizes were more what i was thinking as the pre plus has twice the storage space for media-internal Feb 02 03:48:48 I don't see that Feb 02 03:49:03 bootie env would handle any partition size wouldn't it? Feb 02 03:49:33 let me see what happens with vzw doctor Feb 02 03:49:41 I guess the default in-memory cache size for the browser could be bigger on the plus Feb 02 03:51:11 egaudet: Nope Feb 02 03:55:43 I guess they are different Feb 02 04:02:04 ird: still around? I had a question for you about yesterday's discussion Feb 02 04:02:55 Verizon is _really_ helping the awareness about webOS. Feb 02 04:04:07 hey zsoc, I actually have a question for you too...I was discussing getting ogg vorbis to play on WebOS yesterday and he mentioned you might be a good person to talk to Feb 02 04:04:30 Bazirker: about? Feb 02 04:04:33 I forgot what we talked about. Feb 02 04:04:37 hahaha Feb 02 04:04:45 oh Feb 02 04:04:45 ogg vorbis and gstreamer Feb 02 04:04:46 Bazirker: Sure, ogg works fine. Feb 02 04:05:23 zsoc: who wants to play it from the command line? :) Feb 02 04:05:42 zsoc: how difficult do you think it would be to code up a service that lets applications play it? Feb 02 04:06:00 Bazirker: ogg works fine. the trick is playback in a GUI. it's either supabinaryHAX! to palm's fileindexer to make it pick up ogg, OR make an SDL app Feb 02 04:06:29 or possibly find a gui sdl music/video app that uses gst as a backend Feb 02 04:06:46 but from command line is plays no problem.. any audio filetype does Feb 02 04:07:22 is it possible to load up a playlist from command line? do you just use typical gstreamer commands? Feb 02 04:07:36 not sure honestly... i only know how to using a debug tool Feb 02 04:07:43 haha Feb 02 04:07:57 Bazirker: I mean, you could write a gst application... they are made to be written in C Feb 02 04:08:26 Bazirker: and put a front end to it, if you want to go that way, but it's a huge project.. you're better of using the existing mediaserver.. Feb 02 04:08:32 err... maybe you could write your own file indexer Feb 02 04:08:36 and hack the music player to use it? Feb 02 04:08:46 That's what I suggested to him. Feb 02 04:09:04 i wish ajames was around... Feb 02 04:09:31 There may be a james here, just not the one you're looking for. Feb 02 04:09:34 :p Feb 02 04:09:35 I'm thinking if someone did the backend work, it might be easier to get NaN player to use it since it's more built from scratch...although I think it still only uses palm's API's Feb 02 04:09:37 lulz Feb 02 04:10:04 so... you know what's REALLY bad? Feb 02 04:10:12 doctoring your phone and forgetting your profile password Feb 02 04:10:12 the clap? Feb 02 04:10:27 ohp... that one worked! yay Feb 02 04:10:32 yep that pretty much sux Feb 02 04:10:43 lol good job Feb 02 04:10:44 Bazirker: I'm pretty sure nanplayer just uses the default apis. Feb 02 04:10:48 yeah I'm a mechanical engineering grad student...so while I can code, 95% of what I do is in matlab, and the other 5% is in C++ using OpenSim and API's Feb 02 04:10:59 ird: yeah it does Feb 02 04:11:22 Bazirker: there are many here that can do it, just not a priority really atm.... Feb 02 04:11:26 I just didn't know if it might be easier with it, i.e. a little less hacking Feb 02 04:11:29 I just got a too many cards error with only the messaging app open :\ Feb 02 04:11:40 l0lz Feb 02 04:11:43 nice Feb 02 04:11:45 er Feb 02 04:11:45 and preware Feb 02 04:11:46 ird: memory leaks, clearly Feb 02 04:12:02 Yes, but I have no idea how to figure out what it is :p Feb 02 04:12:16 ird: restart Feb 02 04:12:19 @ird any idea when nanplayer will be releaced? Feb 02 04:12:29 nopr Feb 02 04:12:34 nope* Feb 02 04:12:44 2014 probably. Feb 02 04:12:50 alright, I thought it might be something that's not too tough, but if it's an endeavor...I'll just have to keep transcoding for now Feb 02 04:13:03 lol I know rite Feb 02 04:13:06 Bazirker: ffmpeg works out of the box, you could transcode on-device? :D Feb 02 04:13:15 its been a long time commin Feb 02 04:13:19 I've gone back to using my iPod for music. Feb 02 04:13:40 I don't blame u Feb 02 04:13:45 zsoc: I could, I guess...that's inefficient, the Pre's battery life is crappy enough as it is Feb 02 04:14:15 Blubble is nice enough, I just wish he'd release at least a demo version. Feb 02 04:14:37 That works for.. 30 days or something. Feb 02 04:14:59 ird: I think he's a perfectionist and doesn't want to release it till it's got plenty of spit shine Feb 02 04:15:13 Bazirker: it's fun as hell tho ;) Oh... i'll just download this video from the internet and convert it to mp4 lol Feb 02 04:15:27 how do you do it? Feb 02 04:15:43 Bazirker: I don't mind though really. He has no obligation to release it to anyone. Feb 02 04:15:50 Bazirker: terminus Feb 02 04:15:54 ird: very true Feb 02 04:15:58 or terminal.. Feb 02 04:16:09 gotcha Feb 02 04:16:19 Bazirker: just cross compile ffmpeg (standard build, no --disables) Feb 02 04:16:20 and uh, that's it Feb 02 04:16:51 I've been using WinXP too much...I get lazy and want a GUI for everything :) Feb 02 04:16:58 gotta remember back to my linux days Feb 02 04:17:00 for compiling? that doesn't even make sense Feb 02 04:17:14 can you compile things in a gui? how does that work? how do you build an environment and set flags etc etc? Feb 02 04:17:18 don't tell me those things actually exist Feb 02 04:17:25 no I mean for transcoding Feb 02 04:17:28 oh Feb 02 04:17:31 well to each his own Feb 02 04:17:37 haha Feb 02 04:17:39 I was actually planning an SDL ffmpeg front end Feb 02 04:17:42 for on-device encoding Feb 02 04:17:51 that would be pretty cool zsoc :) Feb 02 04:17:57 (take a video, transcode it to 3gp, mms it to friend) Feb 02 04:17:58 yeah that'd be sweet Feb 02 04:18:40 zsoc: what's the time like to transcode video? does it take forever? Feb 02 04:18:53 Bazirker: uh... it's not _fast_.... Feb 02 04:19:11 I wouldn't think so Feb 02 04:19:13 but it's still cool :D my service could subscribe to it... you leave it in a card, and it lets you know in notification when it's done ;) Feb 02 04:20:18 alright guys I'm gonna go make dinner #2...and go make an internals donation Feb 02 04:20:30 later! Feb 02 04:20:31 Bazirker: which makes you the man! :D Feb 02 04:20:32 peace Feb 02 04:20:41 acydlord, I successfully meta doctor'd my Pre Feb 02 04:22:21 egaudet, sweet, thanks. Have a friend who's pre is running on verizon presently and he was wanting to use the vzw image Feb 02 04:22:58 where do the internals donations go? rod? Feb 02 04:23:04 LOL Feb 02 04:23:06 for the site and server etc? Feb 02 04:23:08 sorry, that was a loud laugh :( Feb 02 04:23:14 why? Feb 02 04:23:29 I didn't mean to HIM Feb 02 04:23:30 ird: his sail boat Feb 02 04:23:30 but.. Feb 02 04:23:33 oh lol Feb 02 04:23:47 Like he was just making money off you guys or something. Feb 02 04:24:02 I just meant I thought he ran the site and all so he would get the donations to pay for that or something. Feb 02 04:24:10 er, not him directly. Feb 02 04:24:19 there's a lot that goes into this community Feb 02 04:24:23 more than most people know i'm sure Feb 02 04:26:17 Rod receives the money and sends me 30% the other 70% is webOS internal's Feb 02 04:26:37 Seems like you got shafted Feb 02 04:27:25 hola WHE's and WHE-ettes Feb 02 04:27:55 yo Feb 02 04:28:20 hey :) Feb 02 04:28:31 dtzWill: you're the WHE-ette? :D Feb 02 04:28:32 xD Feb 02 04:28:33 * zsoc ducks Feb 02 04:28:42 haha Feb 02 04:28:59 he DID make those plural :) Feb 02 04:29:09 a joke man... :( we love you Feb 02 04:29:52 zsoc: i get jokes Feb 02 04:30:03 i laughed! :) no worries Feb 02 04:30:46 I don't deserve my + Feb 02 04:30:48 * zsoc hides in the corner Feb 02 04:33:08 you scared him off zsoc, lol Feb 02 04:33:16 apparently lol Feb 02 04:33:27 there he is Feb 02 04:33:35 you have to run away from zsoc there? Feb 02 04:33:43 i was feeling really insecure Feb 02 04:33:45 i'm doing crying now Feb 02 04:33:45 :( Feb 02 04:33:52 A-HA! Feb 02 04:33:54 haha Feb 02 04:34:01 'doing crying' Feb 02 04:34:06 Quick newb question because the wiki is a little unclear. Do I have to Connect my pre to a PC to get WosSQI installed on my Pre? Feb 02 04:34:27 i just through my network behind a bridge interface so i can make use of the tun qemu networking since it's the only way to get decent performance Feb 02 04:34:32 jdferm_web: if you can get wosqi installed on your pre, you are amazing Feb 02 04:34:46 afaik no way to do that without taking down my primary interface temporarily Feb 02 04:34:51 I'm just trying to follow the "Installing preware" instructions on the preware.org page Feb 02 04:35:11 OK so it's just a java app for the PC then. Feb 02 04:35:12 jdferm: wosqi runs on your computer, and it's used to install preware on your pre Feb 02 04:35:22 Gotcha Feb 02 04:35:25 er, it's used for that _for now_.. heh Feb 02 04:35:56 I was a little confused because the section was just titled "Installing with WebOS Quick Install (All)" Feb 02 04:36:37 Thx Feb 02 04:36:39 yeah, QI is for your PC onle Feb 02 04:36:44 s/onle/only/ Feb 02 04:36:44 cryptk|work meant: yeah, QI is for your PC only Feb 02 04:37:14 and afaik you need to have the pre connected via USB for the initial install Feb 02 04:37:35 unless you have a terminal app on the pre already... but if you don't have preware the chances are slim that you ahve a terminal app on it... Feb 02 04:38:07 Aye, not yet.. working on that now. Feb 02 04:38:23 just type in webos20090606 from the home screen Feb 02 04:38:33 that will pop up the icon to turn on dev mode Feb 02 04:38:45 Got that far :D Feb 02 04:38:46 cryptk|work: he probably got that far :) Feb 02 04:38:49 BTW, 20090606 is the launch date of the pre (bit o' trivia) Feb 02 04:38:52 ahh Feb 02 04:38:58 cryptk|work: dude you need to relax lol Feb 02 04:38:59 then yeah, USB it up and you are gtg Feb 02 04:39:07 sorry, alot fo caffine today, lol Feb 02 04:39:11 I will calm it down a notch Feb 02 04:40:25 Just was a little cornfused since it didn't actually say anything about connecting USBs and such in the WosSQI section on the preware install. Almost sounded like it was something I could run from the phone. Feb 02 04:40:38 uh. whose bright idea was it to download the glib package and patches every time without caching them? Feb 02 04:40:50 Just my lack of knowledge on what WosSQI is :) Feb 02 04:40:52 glib? hm? Feb 02 04:41:13 jdferm_web: no biggie... you on a pre/pixi plus? Feb 02 04:41:59 Just a regular Pre (Sprint) Feb 02 04:42:03 looks like Jason for QI 3.0 out Feb 02 04:42:12 They replaced my Touch Pro with it. Feb 02 04:42:18 ahh, well, welcome to the land of WebOS modding! Feb 02 04:42:41 webOS is where it's at :) Feb 02 04:42:43 Touch Pro is a good phone too (I almost got one when they came out) but the pre is definitely amazing Feb 02 04:42:44 xcomp Feb 02 04:42:45 there shall be no modding Feb 02 04:42:45 is there an IM app for pre yet? Feb 02 04:42:47 ird: agreed Feb 02 04:42:56 touch pro is HUUGE Feb 02 04:42:59 i'm outtie Feb 02 04:43:03 entity-: the pre does IM natively Feb 02 04:43:08 with some services anyway Feb 02 04:43:10 not msn Feb 02 04:43:21 yeah, unfortunately not msn... Feb 02 04:43:24 entity-: maybe gregs plugin? Feb 02 04:43:42 i see IM+ Feb 02 04:43:51 but its a pay app Feb 02 04:43:54 so im screwed Feb 02 04:43:58 Yeah, The Touch Pro was a decent phone once you ditched the Stock ROM. Feb 02 04:44:03 my brother just got the touch pro 2 in, i couldn't convince him to get the Pre in time Feb 02 04:44:04 entity-: If you search the forums there is a messenger plugin. Feb 02 04:44:17 i know about it Feb 02 04:44:25 i dont want that Feb 02 04:44:28 Why? Feb 02 04:44:30 It works. Feb 02 04:44:35 Just not with synergy. Feb 02 04:45:03 entity-: maybe jabber.. er.. forwarded.. somehow.. Feb 02 04:47:56 seems like there should be some kind of multiple IM protocol website out there formatted for the iphone... which should render the same on the pre (same resolution) Feb 02 04:49:13 so QI 3.0 is AUPT compatible... Feb 02 04:49:23 and he removed the themer... Feb 02 04:49:46 (never was a big fan of the invasive nature of themes, but my "customers" like them...) Feb 02 04:49:56 cryptk|work: http://www.meebo.com/? Feb 02 04:53:00 can't get to that one from work... Feb 02 04:53:11 that means it is blocked at the router level... Feb 02 04:53:19 they must really hate meebo... Feb 02 04:53:19 crypt Feb 02 04:53:23 sup Feb 02 04:53:47 mundu Feb 02 04:53:52 and meebo Feb 02 04:53:58 are the best that i have found Feb 02 04:54:04 mundu works better Feb 02 04:54:13 dBsooner: you around? Feb 02 04:54:42 mundo... that is the one I was trying to think of Feb 02 05:02:36 Why didn't anyone package scummvm for preware? Feb 02 05:02:58 or is it and I just can't see it.. Feb 02 05:03:14 ird: it is being packaged no? Feb 02 05:03:29 As in still in the process? Feb 02 05:03:36 or something Feb 02 05:03:38 oh Feb 02 05:03:39 damn Feb 02 05:03:40 i think there is a wiki page Feb 02 05:03:45 yeah Feb 02 05:03:48 that's why I asked. Feb 02 05:04:02 you have to build it yourself apparently.. Feb 02 05:06:51 I was hoping for some day of the tentacle action :( Feb 02 05:06:55 at work tomorrow. Feb 02 05:08:37 is there anyway to change to portrait mode with keyboard in vba Feb 02 05:09:02 I think the problem with scumm is that no one has worked on a keybindings package.... Feb 02 05:09:04 I would like the overlay if the game wasn't so small Feb 02 05:10:50 is open source code mostly formatted and commented well? Feb 02 05:11:09 list is there a standard for doing that Feb 02 05:11:13 jacques: sorry ... I guess I was getting a little too cute. :) Feb 02 05:11:18 like* Feb 02 05:12:20 firestrider: opt + @ Feb 02 05:12:34 and opt + p to set key bindings. Feb 02 05:12:40 it's all in the wiki page :) Feb 02 05:13:51 opt is what ? orange key? Feb 02 05:14:26 Hello Feb 02 05:14:37 I am trying to install the preware on my sprint palm pre Feb 02 05:14:48 the device is not being seen can someone assist me? Feb 02 05:15:30 firestrider: yes Feb 02 05:15:49 Try the installers at preware.org Feb 02 05:16:02 I have Feb 02 05:16:10 Make sure its in dev mode? Feb 02 05:16:14 is developer mode on? Feb 02 05:16:17 er Feb 02 05:16:17 yes Feb 02 05:16:17 damn Feb 02 05:16:34 http://preware.org/#/install/ Feb 02 05:16:39 Theres no reason it shouldnt work Feb 02 05:16:53 yea that the website I used Feb 02 05:17:00 to get the preware install Feb 02 05:17:13 from under install guide (windows) Feb 02 05:17:22 Whats the problem then? Feb 02 05:17:47 when i try to run the preware installer Feb 02 05:17:56 xcomp: np I'm just in a bad mood from fighting autotools for severl hours :-) Feb 02 05:18:06 I get a box w/ a bold title that states IPKG Installer Feb 02 05:18:15 first line states No devices have been found Feb 02 05:18:31 Restart your phone and plug into a different usb port Feb 02 05:18:41 using a mac? Feb 02 05:18:58 No desktop systm I built w/ win7 64 bit Feb 02 05:19:19 hard to say. some usb controllers are finicky Feb 02 05:19:22 have not tried a different usb port yet Feb 02 05:19:23 Abyssul: i have issues with my linux desktop not seeing my phone Feb 02 05:19:28 trying that now Feb 02 05:19:29 USB issue Feb 02 05:19:34 not the phone Feb 02 05:19:48 packet errors happening Feb 02 05:20:39 Whee! Preware is installed. Now I just have to figure out what the heck it is ;) Feb 02 05:20:51 jdferm, everything you've been missing o_O Feb 02 05:20:55 Vole, you can always try WebOS QI Feb 02 05:21:00 outside of caller groups Feb 02 05:21:04 but, everything else you've been missing :) Feb 02 05:21:37 tried that too Feb 02 05:21:38 FuMan, :) If it's anything like the cooked ROMs for WinMo, I've got a lot of reading to do Feb 02 05:21:46 but i keep getting an error w/ that also Feb 02 05:21:49 that error is different Feb 02 05:22:22 it states i do nt have the weboosdoctor Feb 02 05:22:33 but I do Feb 02 05:22:43 heh Feb 02 05:22:46 I downloaded manually Feb 02 05:22:47 much more simple than cooked roms Feb 02 05:22:51 and not quite as end-game Feb 02 05:22:58 try things out, uninstall them if you dont like them Feb 02 05:23:03 check back tomorrow for new things, etc Feb 02 05:23:05 jdferm_web: WebOS is very open, no need to cook a new ROM and reflash the phone... you can just patch the OS and reboot Feb 02 05:23:08 xcomp: Sometimes I have to reboot (on linux) to get my Pre detected. Feb 02 05:23:23 Vole: is the webos doctor located in the same folder as QI Feb 02 05:23:25 because when the webQI trys to download it still repeats the same Feb 02 05:23:29 yes Feb 02 05:23:32 both on my desktop Feb 02 05:23:41 hrm... Feb 02 05:23:46 vole, make sure webos QI and the doctor file are in the same folder Feb 02 05:23:49 Oh Feb 02 05:23:54 and you said even if you let QI download it it still complains that it isn't there? Feb 02 05:24:03 The doctor file is around 200mb right? Feb 02 05:24:10 somewhere around there I thihnk... Feb 02 05:24:16 it downloads it and goes to 100% Feb 02 05:24:19 Cool. We'll see ya. I'm sure I'll be bugging you all with more newb questions later. Feb 02 05:24:22 * jdferm_web & Feb 02 05:24:22 then i click it again Feb 02 05:24:29 and same error and trys to download it again Feb 02 05:24:50 what version of QI are you using? Feb 02 05:25:15 209,853,029 bytes Feb 02 05:25:32 3.0 webos from the precentral forms Feb 02 05:25:55 hrm... Feb 02 05:26:18 not sure... I would look into it more, but I am studying for Sec+ ATM... Feb 02 05:27:04 no worries just wanted to make sure I was not missing anything noobish Feb 02 05:27:10 when was qi 3.0 released? Feb 02 05:28:15 today Feb 02 05:28:25 http://forums.precentral.net/canuck-software/228310-webos-quick-install-v3-0-a-3.html Feb 02 05:32:09 grr I hate accidentally having stupid palm catalog feeds enabled Feb 02 05:33:04 egaudet: agreed Feb 02 05:33:13 same for pc-themes and prethemer. Feb 02 05:35:48 QI doesn't work for me Feb 02 05:37:23 Probably a issue that Jason is fixing Feb 02 05:38:01 I just wanted to see if dependencies work yet Feb 02 05:38:25 what's the deal with all the differnt ipkg roots? like /var and /opt and /media/cryptfs/apps ?? Feb 02 05:42:53 /var was the offline root all the way up until 1.3.5 which changed it to /media/cryptofs/apps Feb 02 05:43:13 Nothing should install to /var post 1.3.5 Feb 02 05:43:44 so the crap that i have intalled in /var Feb 02 05:43:51 i can jsut ipkg -o /var unintall it? Feb 02 05:52:33 rwhitby: ping a ling Feb 02 05:55:03 egaudet: did you say WOSQI 3.0 wasnt working? Feb 02 05:55:14 worked for me earlier Feb 02 05:55:51 i get errors installing Feb 02 05:55:52 oh well Feb 02 05:56:14 smoofra, if you are on 1.3.5 you want to install EMH so that luna can migrate it Feb 02 06:01:20 egaudet: EMH? Feb 02 06:04:31 smoofra: emergency migration helper... moves everything from var to media/cryptofs Feb 02 06:05:49 hrm Feb 02 06:06:16 i dno't seem to have much in /var. some packages that overlap with optware stuff mostly Feb 02 06:08:16 pre 1.3.5 var was used post 1.3.5 media/cryptofs.. As i understand it var is no longer used for anything Feb 02 06:09:32 going to bed... im outa here Feb 02 06:14:40 I love it when people can't follow simple directions... not talking about anyone here btw, just complaining about people who call me for help at work... Feb 02 06:14:46 gotta love doing IT support... Feb 02 06:16:25 I love people Feb 02 06:21:17 Yes, most jobs would be a lot better if it wasnt for the customers. Feb 02 06:22:45 exactly... most of my customers are awesome.. they have a problem, they know I can help, they do what I ask them to, their problem is solved... Feb 02 06:22:52 * egaudet bed Feb 02 06:23:08 then there are the customers that forget that they CALLED ME for help and instead try and tell me how to fix their problem Feb 02 06:23:22 which, more oftin than not, is not how it should or can be fixed... Feb 02 06:23:30 i really dont miss doing support Feb 02 06:23:33 yep, they generally have a case of the "but it's gotta be" Feb 02 06:23:53 yep Feb 02 06:23:53 of course at my last support job i had free reign and no fcr to worry about Feb 02 06:24:03 fcr? Feb 02 06:24:19 so if they were like "surely such and such will fix it" so i'd just be like "alright, go fix it then, have a good day *click*" Feb 02 06:24:22 please mam, tell me what it actually saus on the screen and not what you think is wrong, yes, really the actual words, no no, not sorta kinda what it says, the actual words themselves... Feb 02 06:24:27 first call resolution Feb 02 06:24:40 ahh, yeah they push first call resolution pretty hard ehre Feb 02 06:24:43 and then the right click connundrum Feb 02 06:25:01 you tell them to right click once, and they ask you the rest of the call if you want them to right click Feb 02 06:25:18 "Mam, please click the left-hand mouse button. I can't. Why not? I only have one moouse and it's on my right. " Feb 02 06:25:23 I asked a lady one time what the error message was, her reply was "it says cannot logon... blah blah blah... contact administrator" Feb 02 06:25:27 those were her exact words Feb 02 06:25:38 yep. Feb 02 06:25:55 my favorite is getting peoples computer names Feb 02 06:26:16 I tell them "push the windows key and the pause key at the same time" (open system properties in windows) Feb 02 06:26:37 well acydlord in my job, there is no one to escalate _to_ ultimately I designed the software, and geneally, the custom app they're running. So it's me or it's no one. Feb 02 06:26:55 then I almost always get one of 2 questions "where is the pause key" (understandable, very few people ever have a need to use it) or... "where is the windows ley" (WHAA!!! really?!?) Feb 02 06:27:16 s/ley/key/ Feb 02 06:27:18 cryptk|work meant: then I almost always get one of 2 questions "where is the pause key" (understandable, very few people ever have a need to use it) or... "where is the windows key" (WHAA!!! really?!?) Feb 02 06:27:19 my laptop has no windows key Feb 02 06:27:27 that's not so bad. Not knowing where the delete key is otoh, Feb 02 06:27:31 haha Feb 02 06:27:36 another fun one was "you dont understand son, i have a mac" Feb 02 06:27:49 they often dont know about the any key Feb 02 06:27:59 acydlord that at least I never face. Feb 02 06:28:12 I also love when i am having someone use the command prompt and I tell them to paste something in it... (I usually have them go to the location in windows explorer and copy the path, easier for them) Feb 02 06:28:14 "Sorry sir, I don't do fruit." Feb 02 06:28:22 I tell them "right click and hit paste" Feb 02 06:28:26 :-\ Feb 02 06:28:39 then they say "It made an up arrow and a V Feb 02 06:28:53 when I did support in college, may ppl didn't know if they had a mac or a pc Feb 02 06:28:53 * rick-home bed Feb 02 06:28:56 I tell them to delete it and right click and hit paste... and they say "just that arrow and a V again" Feb 02 06:28:57 lol Feb 02 06:29:04 the last 2 support jobs i had, i was one of the only techs who knew about macs, it was sad times Feb 02 06:29:13 I have alot of people that don't know the difference between XP and Vista Feb 02 06:29:14 "look at the front of the computer - does it have a little apple on it?" Feb 02 06:29:43 does you start menu say "START" or is it a round button with a windows logo in it Feb 02 06:29:44 lol Feb 02 06:29:58 "did you feel ripped off once you had it for a week? yeah? ok, thats a mac" Feb 02 06:30:04 hahaha Feb 02 06:30:31 i like where apple is going though, everything being more and more closed Feb 02 06:30:41 hahaha Feb 02 06:30:50 makes it so there are less problems at least Feb 02 06:30:56 "oh you have a mac? call apple. you may want to get a second mortgage on your house unless you have apple care" Feb 02 06:31:01 you can't do as much with it... but it works great for the limited stuff it can do Feb 02 06:31:38 Oh, the battery in your phone is bad... replace it... iPhone you say... take it to mac... sorry you can't change that battery yourself because apple doesn't trust you... Feb 02 06:31:50 LOL Feb 02 06:32:22 apple told my friend she voided her warranty cause she upgraded the ram in her MBP on her own Feb 02 06:33:00 best thing about it too is that she took it in for repair cause the hard drive failed Feb 02 06:33:19 haha Feb 02 06:33:35 Apple did some great service on my wifes MBP, only because nvidia paid for it... Feb 02 06:34:23 since it was on NVIDIA's dime they replaced the fans... new keyboard, replaced a ram stick (for what reason I have no clue, I put the ram in it and the ram was fine) as well as replacing the bad video card Feb 02 06:34:40 the thing i love most about apple repair, without apple care, every repair has to be above $300 because that is the apple recertification fee Feb 02 06:35:00 after I saw the ram being replaced on the invoice for it I turned it on in the store to make sure it still had the same amount of ram in it as when i brought it in... Feb 02 06:35:09 ahhaha Feb 02 06:36:05 I love how if you bring in an iPhone... no matter what for... even if it is you just want to be shown how to do something... the first thing they do is look inside the headphone jack with a little light... Feb 02 06:36:10 to check the water sensor Feb 02 06:36:18 if it is red at all they won't talk to you Feb 02 06:36:33 even if the phone works great, you just want to be shown how to sync it with iTunes or something silly Feb 02 06:37:32 I saw an older lady get turned away from the service desk for that when I was bringing in my wifes MBP, she just wanted to be shown how to use iTunes with it... but I guess the sensor had a little bit of red so they wouldn't help her without her paying for a new iPhone Feb 02 06:38:02 I showed that lady my Pre and she loved it BTW, lol Feb 02 06:38:12 I show off my Pre every time I go in the Apple store, lOL Feb 02 06:38:24 i cant go into apple stores Feb 02 06:38:36 you know the airport level in modern warfare 2? Feb 02 06:38:40 yeah Feb 02 06:38:48 that would be me in an apple store Feb 02 06:38:52 HAHAHA Feb 02 06:39:14 If her MBP didn't need service I would have been pointing at everything calling it a ripoff... Feb 02 06:40:41 i think the best win of my career was when i got refused a job at apple because i have ethics Feb 02 06:41:45 they were opening a new store out here and were vetting me to head up the genius bar Feb 02 06:44:54 http://www.4guysfromviewpoint.com/?p=76 Feb 02 06:44:59 OMFG, that is hilarious Feb 02 06:45:13 that link is titled "If WWII was an MMORTS" Feb 02 06:45:22 it is a "chatlog" of what would ahppen in the game, LOL Feb 02 06:45:34 co-worker jsut sent it to me Feb 02 06:48:00 jacques: syn|ack Feb 02 06:48:23 rwhitby: are your ping replies vilnerable to a MITM attack? Feb 02 06:48:35 cryptk|work: absolutely Feb 02 06:48:52 rwhitby: ack Feb 02 06:48:54 hopefully the MITM will be much more interesting than the MATE Feb 02 06:48:57 ;-) Feb 02 06:49:06 lol Feb 02 06:50:04 rwhitby: you should check out that link I posted for a good laugh Feb 02 06:50:33 howdy rwhitby I was just going to ask your opinion on the blurb I was sending to SCALE for a lightning talk proposal, but deadline came and I sent it - no big deal :-) Feb 02 06:51:34 jacques: cool, can I see it anyway? Feb 02 06:51:43 I did ping you a whole 5 minutes before the deadline Feb 02 06:52:47 rwhitby: NickServ yelled at me about my MITM attack Feb 02 06:53:23 cryptk|work: but didn't let me know, so you're safe Feb 02 06:53:49 well, if it was gonna let anyone know it would have been jacques, lol Feb 02 06:53:58 rwhitby: http://webos.pastebin.com/m397868ca Feb 02 06:54:27 cryptk|work: yeah you shouldn't have been able to keep that nick more than 30 seconds Feb 02 06:54:44 yeah, I changed it back before the 30 sec timer Feb 02 06:54:59 I wonder what it changes it to... Feb 02 06:55:27 try it Feb 02 06:56:04 prolly guest something or other Feb 02 06:56:14 yep Feb 02 06:56:16 I was right Feb 02 06:56:21 heh Feb 02 06:57:08 rwhitby: it's possible that I have another hour on the deadline if they are going by Pacific time (deadline is midnight) Feb 02 06:57:27 not that my opinion on it matters, but I like it Feb 02 06:57:28 so in theory we could re-write it / write another one and send it Feb 02 06:57:50 looking at it now I see a some repeated words which I prefer to avoid Feb 02 06:58:00 our our, additional additional :-( Feb 02 06:58:16 states what you you have, the latest change to it, userbase... gets it across in a small blurb Feb 02 06:58:20 but this is just a blurb... I don't think it's going to be published anywhere ... Feb 02 06:58:27 jacques: blurb looks good Feb 02 06:58:56 rwhitby: `k Feb 02 06:59:16 cryptk|work: I'm glad you like it Feb 02 06:59:45 if you care about the repeated words you could change the start of the second paragraph to "Preware is an app that" Feb 02 06:59:48 for whatever reason they didn't accept my proposal for a full talk :-( Feb 02 07:00:00 or "We created the Preware app to..." Feb 02 07:00:21 and you could change the first additional to extra Feb 02 07:00:32 cryptk|work: yeah if they accept it and ask for a more polished desc I will change it Feb 02 07:00:38 yeah Feb 02 07:01:00 so I am studying up for the Sec+ bridge exam Feb 02 07:01:08 my company is paying for it, so i may as well... Feb 02 07:01:18 BTW, we are still looking for ppl to help man the webos-internals booth at SCALE - you get a free exhibitor pass (lol) Feb 02 07:02:19 if I lived in SoCal I would do it for sure Feb 02 07:02:22 but I am in San Antonio Feb 02 07:02:53 but if webos-internals gets a booth at texas linux fest I can help out! Feb 02 07:03:24 yeah it's a bit far to go just for a bit of fun Feb 02 07:04:08 yeah, I have a buddy in Lompoc, but I haven't talked to him in a bit so it would be weird to just call him out of nowhere and say "Hey can I come visit" lol Feb 02 07:04:11 cryptk|work: I'm 99% sure we could get a booth at tlf if we tried - I'm just not so sure tlf will be well organized/run Feb 02 07:04:13 jacques: shall I tweet for volunteers? Feb 02 07:04:22 rwhitby: that would be excellent Feb 02 07:04:30 yeah, I think TLF is going on for the first time this year Feb 02 07:05:03 but if you guys are interested in getting a booth, let me know Feb 02 07:05:11 cryptk|work: at the tlf site, they have sone "volunteer" positions open - it's basically every hard job involved in running the conference Feb 02 07:05:23 I kinda wonder what the organizers are planning on doing Feb 02 07:05:30 anyone here have a palm pre plus Feb 02 07:05:36 I can't get to the TLF site at work... blocked at the router Feb 02 07:06:15 damn Feb 02 07:06:18 how many leds are on the gesture area on the ppp Feb 02 07:06:29 I was going to point you at this page: http://wiki.texaslinuxfest.org/wiki/Volunteers Feb 02 07:07:00 if you can make that link with an IP instead, I can get to it Feb 02 07:07:11 the router blocks are really stupid, they just drop the DNS requests Feb 02 07:07:13 and does a tap on the gesture area trigger the same thing as the center button press on the pre Feb 02 07:07:32 so I can go to http://XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX/whatever instead and get through, lol Feb 02 07:07:58 cryptk|work: it won't take the IP - must be doing hostname based vhots Feb 02 07:08:02 vhosts Feb 02 07:08:23 texaslinuxfest.org has address 64.22.116.250 Feb 02 07:08:27 jacques: tux looks nice twice on http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale8x/exhibitors?page=1 Feb 02 07:09:30 rwhitby: sweeet Feb 02 07:09:54 that reminds me I gotta check if the slug2s are available yet Feb 02 07:10:12 anyone have a palm pre plus Feb 02 07:10:39 slug2? Feb 02 07:12:15 rwhitby: that iomega device ka6sox was talking about Feb 02 07:12:28 ah, right. Feb 02 07:12:29 * rwhitby bbl Feb 02 07:12:36 looks like a perfect slug2 - same price but with wifi Feb 02 07:18:03 anyone know a car buying app like autotrader.com or something Feb 02 07:19:41 I could try editing the hosts file to add in an entry for texaslinuxfest.org and that would prolly work... but I would ahve to log in as an admin to edit it... Feb 02 07:22:42 cryptk|work: just look at it on your pre :-D Feb 02 07:23:32 jacques: good idea Feb 02 07:24:44 jacques: I've also got a fonera 2n coming via ka6sox Feb 02 07:25:29 rwhitby: fonera sounds vaguely familiar but I cannot place it Feb 02 07:26:06 jacques: first volunteer: https://exaltations.net/christefano Feb 02 07:26:12 that reminds me I gotta email rick about demo phones for SCALE Feb 02 07:26:13 hey, do you guys think it would be possible to make the unlock screen use the accelerometer? Feb 02 07:26:22 so that you swipe up no matter the orientation? Feb 02 07:27:35 sprint is doing something with the cell near me - it keeps dropping out - I have noticed this happening late at night recently Feb 02 07:28:19 rwhitby: "In 2006, Christefano was honored by Time Magazine by being selected as Person of the Year." uh, wow ? Feb 02 07:29:03 oh lol it's a joke Feb 02 07:29:07 I feel silly now Feb 02 07:29:20 hehe Feb 02 07:29:24 brb, something bad just happened... Feb 02 07:29:31 cryptk|work: :-\ Feb 02 07:30:31 rwhitby: I guess you should give volunteers my email address so I can get them registered Feb 02 07:34:19 back Feb 02 07:34:22 problem averted Feb 02 07:34:58 we use a ticket management system called remedy... someone walked past the server and tripped on the fiber... Feb 02 07:35:21 pulled some of the lines out of it, I had to grab some new patch cables and hook it back up and get it running again, lol Feb 02 07:35:30 bbiab, lunch time Feb 02 07:36:01 fibre + shoes = bad Feb 02 07:50:24 jacques: lets work out who the list of volunteers is first, and then choose which ones to give your email to ;-) Feb 02 07:51:41 rwhitby: yeah I was just thinking that might be a better plan Feb 02 07:52:46 * rwhitby bbl Feb 02 07:54:05 back Feb 02 07:54:29 jacques: I looked at the volunteer page on the TLF site... you are right, there are some big jobs left to be filled... Feb 02 07:55:21 but if webos-internals in interested in having a booth, I can help man it... but it would probably be best to wait and see how it looks like it is gonna pan out... Feb 02 07:56:46 anyone know why youtube will not play videos with adds on the pre Feb 02 07:56:58 ads* Feb 02 07:57:41 its just using the mobile youtube video streams, and for one reason or another they dont want you watching an ad supported video without ads Feb 02 07:57:49 thats my guess Feb 02 07:58:13 do you have an addblocker patch? if the adds are being served from a remote location that is in that patch list that could do it... Feb 02 07:58:29 and since the real video won't play until after the ad finishes you would never get to see it Feb 02 07:58:56 that is total conjecture though and may or amy not be the reason... Feb 02 08:01:34 I don't have any patches Feb 02 08:01:46 cryptk|work: yeah I am going to wait a while before committing to tlf Feb 02 08:01:59 videos that have ads in them won't even show up in the search list Feb 02 08:02:04 cryptk|work: I think they have a channel here on freenode - wiki says #tlf Feb 02 08:02:29 not many people in it, but it is 2AM in texas, lol Feb 02 08:02:45 cryptk|work: yep Feb 02 08:02:56 their deadline for talk submissions is the 15th i think... Feb 02 08:02:58 I had a booth at linuxworld like 10 years ago, that was fun Feb 02 08:03:13 I'm guessing that's the case.. since some videos I can't find on the pre youtube player but I can find on youtubes site Feb 02 08:03:16 me and some other dudes supporting a project we helped Feb 02 08:03:58 joshua: are you anywhere near los angeles ca? Feb 02 08:04:18 they have a category for embedded linux... but the 15th is very little time to get something together... especially for something like TLF that has no guarantee of being all that great Feb 02 08:04:49 im on the other coast Feb 02 08:05:06 One year we had icculus.org booth at san fran linuxworld Feb 02 08:05:14 cryptk|work: let's just say I see lots of red flags with tlf, as much as I would like there to be a cool conference in texas. Feb 02 08:05:20 and another year we had a booth in NYC for another project Feb 02 08:05:34 joshua: yeah I was at linuxworld booths a couple of times Feb 02 08:06:05 first time in 2003 Feb 02 08:07:20 jacques: I am totally on the same page as you... I would love to see it turn into something great though. Feb 02 08:23:49 jacques: who did you have a booth with? Feb 02 08:25:13 joshua: once with a gentoo based distro, and once with nslu2-linux.org Feb 02 08:50:57 we had fun one year hanging out with the windowmaker guys in the next booth Feb 02 08:51:22 windowmaker still has guys? Feb 02 08:51:51 this was 9 or 10 years ago, I don't know if anyone touches it Feb 02 08:52:24 oooh back then Feb 02 08:52:32 i think some peolpe do still use it Feb 02 08:54:23 A lot of the people who hung out in the IRC channel got macs once OSX came out, cause its basically NeXT revamped with a modern GUI and macness Feb 02 08:59:18 joshua: traitors! Feb 02 09:14:09 thats what I thought at the time too, and then at one point I got a powerbook and got hooked on it. heh Feb 02 09:14:41 you feel ripped off yet? Feb 02 09:15:08 that thing still runs 6 years later Feb 02 09:15:41 but how much did you pay for it, lol Feb 02 09:15:52 that is the thing with macs... they are overpriced... Feb 02 09:15:54 $1800 Feb 02 09:16:28 6 years is pretty good going for a laptop though Feb 02 09:16:33 it is pretty good Feb 02 09:16:49 The longest mines has lasted is about 2 years or so Feb 02 09:16:55 The only thing I have against macs is the price, they are good, quality computers... but they are expensive as hell... Feb 02 09:17:29 half the time if you spec them out and put the same features in a PC laptop its not that much different. I used a student discount on that one which took off 10% Feb 02 09:18:25 the aluminum cases really take a beating, I slipped on ice and fell on my current one and it bent a little but the computer was undamaged Feb 02 09:19:16 the 6 year old one I dropped onto the pavement at one point and it dented the corner heh Feb 02 09:29:21 i want my webos update :( Feb 02 09:29:26 still no word? Feb 02 09:38:40 I run the updates app twice a day hoping it will pop up with 1.4 Feb 02 09:40:48 joshua: still a traitor :) Feb 02 09:41:06 any reason u also arent just an iphone junkie? :):):) Feb 02 09:41:19 (and are here webos-ing it up?) Feb 02 09:41:34 (mind u - i'm webos free - so i can barely talk) :) Feb 02 09:47:05 I don't really like the iPhone OS, its locked down and you can't run your own apps without modifying it and doing all that other jazz. Its fine for an iPod because its just for playing music and watching movies maybe Feb 02 09:48:04 Not to mention I never wanted to switch to AT&T cause I saved so much money with Sprint and I loved my Treo Feb 02 09:48:35 Had been waiting for years for Palm to revamp their OS. Every year there would be news items about a new Linux Palm phone and it finally happened heh Feb 02 09:49:43 joshua: aaaah ok. :) fair 'nuff Feb 02 09:51:27 i honestly think apple has strayed too much from the computers and they don't put as much development into it cause they make so much off the dumb devices Feb 02 09:51:47 there were no hardware spec bumps when they released that dumb ipad Feb 02 09:52:18 and that pissed me off too... i have wanted an OSX tablet for so long and they finally release one and its just a giant iphone Feb 02 09:56:52 joshua: yes there were. Feb 02 09:57:01 1. new SoC @ 1ghz not 800mhz Feb 02 09:57:07 i think the gpu is different too Feb 02 09:57:14 i suspect its a more powerful mali-400 Feb 02 09:57:42 spec bumps to the laptops i meant Feb 02 09:57:48 so it is marginally faster... but the problem is with the core OS Feb 02 09:57:51 oooh Feb 02 09:57:59 cryptk|work: i know Feb 02 09:58:01 not defeinding it Feb 02 09:58:09 i think its a dumb product Feb 02 09:58:16 aopple lost sight of what makes iphone a killer Feb 02 09:58:18 pockets. Feb 02 09:58:19 it used to be if they were releasing a new product the other lines would get an upgrade of some kind at least Feb 02 09:58:22 pockets are only so big Feb 02 09:58:25 iphone fits Feb 02 09:58:26 ipad doesnt Feb 02 09:58:47 when somethnig fits in your pocket and doesnt ADD to it (it replaces whats already there) Feb 02 09:58:58 then u have 100x the customers Feb 02 10:00:49 my kindle has 2 week battery life and is a nice break from staring at a computer monitor at work. heh Feb 02 11:11:11 hey egaudet I heard you used meta doctor to patch the verizon webos.. needed some help Feb 02 11:19:58 he may not be around... it is quite late after all Feb 02 11:20:05 ~seen rwhitby Feb 02 11:20:07 rwhitby is currently on #webos-internals #oe #nslu2-linux. Has said a total of 15 messages. Is idling for 3h 29m 42s, last said: 'jacques: lets work out who the list of volunteers is first, and then choose which ones to give your email to ;-)'. Feb 02 11:20:19 3.5 hours... Feb 02 11:20:22 yes Feb 02 11:20:39 nvm, there he is... Joely wanted you Feb 02 11:20:54 Joely was asking for egaudet Feb 02 11:21:21 damn... taht is what I get for working nights, lol Feb 02 11:21:58 * cryptk|work needs to learn some better reading skills... Feb 02 11:22:03 need some help patching this.. keep getting an error Feb 02 11:27:56 Joely: ... Feb 02 11:28:11 yeah? Feb 02 11:28:19 well, what's the error? Feb 02 11:30:04 oh okay i'm running meta doctor on the verizon palm pre plus with the command "make unpack patch pack" keep getting "Error 1" Feb 02 11:31:00 ... Feb 02 11:37:16 Joely: here's a tip: if you want someone to help you, give them *all* the information you have. Feb 02 11:39:11 friend told me egaudet had sucessfully put palm pre plus rom from verizon on a palm pre Feb 02 11:39:27 patched it via meta doctor Feb 02 11:39:36 but it's not patching for me Feb 02 11:39:52 what? really? Feb 02 11:39:52 yep, and what is the error? Feb 02 11:40:41 iSmite: no reason why it won't work Feb 02 11:41:04 im still not familiar with pre to that extent Feb 02 11:41:11 iphone yes but not pre Feb 02 11:41:27 says "please download the correct version of webOS doctor .jar file Feb 02 11:42:02 yep, and it tells you where to put it Feb 02 11:42:12 move it to the /downlads directory blah balh balh Error 1 Feb 02 11:42:38 yep Feb 02 11:42:46 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Webos_Doctor_Versions has the links to what you need Feb 02 11:42:51 I had a problem like that and ended up deleting every doctor jar file on my whole system and downloading everything again just to make sure it had the right one cause its confusing Feb 02 11:43:18 i'm using the plam pre plus .jar Feb 02 11:43:22 windows saving files here, and the palm site downloading files there and the program naming it different Feb 02 11:43:38 i know how to do this i've done it before to bypass activation on the sprint rom Feb 02 11:43:48 but now it won't patch this one Feb 02 11:44:53 ~smart-questions Feb 02 11:44:55 i heard smart-questions is http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html Feb 02 11:45:29 am i throwing the wrong flag for the make command or waht? i can't get this to work Feb 02 11:46:37 did you download the jar from the webos-internals site or from the palm site? Feb 02 11:46:43 Joely: please read that link. then you may understand why I have no idea whether you are giving the wrong flag for the make command because you haven't even said exactly what make command you are running. Feb 02 11:46:57 Please ask a smart question. Feb 02 11:47:17 downloaded straight from the webos internals wiki Feb 02 11:48:23 commands "make CARRIER=verizon unpack patch pack" and "make unpack patch pack" both give me Error 1 Feb 02 11:49:12 exactly what file did you download (give the exact URL), and exactly where did you put it, with exactly what name? Feb 02 11:52:40 1. http://palm.cdnetworks.net/rom/pixi/px1351r0d01082010/ver1z0np1351rod/webosdoctorp121ewwverizonwireless.jar Feb 02 11:53:00 2. in the metadoctor folder /downloads/ Feb 02 11:53:32 thats the pixi doctor image, not the pre doctor image Feb 02 11:53:46 3. webosdoctorp100ewwverizon-1.3.5.1.jar Feb 02 11:54:00 see how a smart question gets the answer immediately? Feb 02 11:54:18 lol i copied the wrong one Feb 02 11:54:20 you want http://palm.cdnetworks.net/rom/pre/p1351r0d01082010/ver1z0np1351rod/webosdoctorp101ewwverizonwireless.jar Feb 02 11:54:34 nah i used the pre one Feb 02 11:55:13 so why did you write "CARRIER=verizon" Feb 02 11:55:21 http://palm.cdnetworks.net/rom/pre/p1351r0d01082010/ver1z0np1351rod/webosdoctorp101ewwverizonwireless.jar Feb 02 11:55:35 because thats the carrier i'm using Feb 02 11:55:51 without that flag i still get the same erroe Feb 02 11:55:56 error* Feb 02 11:55:59 no, you're using "verizonwireless", as it states on line 35 of the Makefile Feb 02 11:56:31 shouldn't make spit out more before the actual error. Usually its what leads up to it that hints at whats going on Feb 02 11:56:42 which instructions says to use "verizon" ? Feb 02 11:57:04 me bullshitting Feb 02 11:57:08 joshua: it does, but Joely didn't ask a smart question, so left all that detail out. Feb 02 11:57:24 i didn't you're right Feb 02 11:57:44 try it with verizonwireless (make sure you rename the doctor file to match) Feb 02 11:59:10 thank you Feb 02 12:01:09 let us know how it goes Feb 02 12:07:49 I have customers ask more vague stuff than that. I get support tickets that say "Every time I upload I get an error" but they dont say if they are using FTP or what site they are talking about. heh Feb 02 12:08:05 Or what the error is Feb 02 12:10:12 So the good news is that if you have bought Palm Catalog apps, and you need to transfer your profile to a different phone (even a phone that can't purchase apps from the app catalog cause it's GSM), it will actually download those apps when you log into that profile. Feb 02 12:14:57 * rwhitby just updated the meta-doctor to bypass checking for a SIM card when bypassing activation Feb 02 12:27:26 I have a problem where installing or updating apps from the app store doesn't finish. It posts a notification that it finished the install and then just never finishes. A luna rescan fixes it though. Does this relate to the preware package manager service? Feb 02 12:27:49 note that it does finish, but the app store never realizes it... perhaps that's a better way to say it Feb 02 12:28:55 jettero: have you run EMH since 1.3.5 ? Feb 02 12:30:53 I don't know what emh is Feb 02 12:32:49 ~emh Feb 02 12:33:08 bot fail Feb 02 12:33:19 ~botsnack Feb 02 12:33:19 :), joshua Feb 02 12:33:41 emergency migration helper Feb 02 12:33:47 oh, no Feb 02 12:34:03 this install was a fresh webdoctor 1.3.1, upgrade to 1.3.5 (everything working fine) then preware... Feb 02 12:34:12 some months (plural) later, I noticed this problem Feb 02 12:34:16 doesnt mean it wasn't there before Feb 02 12:45:25 I like how the app page has a menu item to delete the app so you can download, try it out and then delete it without closing the card. Feb 02 13:04:24 I want to make an app with no purpose except for people to delete it... Feb 02 13:04:45 you run it and it just shows a single message... "Yep, you ran me... now you can delete me" Feb 02 13:04:53 it will be called "I Love Brighthouse" Feb 02 13:22:46 * rwhitby bbt Feb 02 13:33:08 is anyone into music here ive just had a revelation and i need help lol Feb 02 13:34:25 I am Feb 02 13:35:16 ok well i used to be in a band and the inspiration totally dried up 12 years back, i played lead- but an entire song just popped into my head and i dont have a real synth, is there any mac software do you know, like a cirtual synth? Feb 02 13:35:22 v Feb 02 13:36:54 all i have is my damn les paul Feb 02 13:40:54 haha Feb 02 13:41:01 I don't use mac sorry Feb 02 13:41:07 only when forced to (iphone dev) Feb 02 14:00:59 ismite: is something like garage band good enough to capture it? I'm not really a music person, sorry Feb 02 14:01:12 So 1.4 should be released this month. Any hint if it will be early or late in the month? Feb 02 14:01:43 yep i forgot about garageband its basic but it will do so i dont forget it thanks Feb 02 14:02:53 djk: my guess would be "when it's done" + time enough for carrier approval Feb 02 14:03:15 zsoc|away: ping Feb 02 14:03:34 the latter is at least a week IIRC Feb 02 14:04:28 I am going to say it should be out by the 28th. Feb 02 14:05:49 I wonder if Verizon will begin making it harder to roll out timely updates Feb 02 14:05:54 the BB Storm fiasco comes to mind Feb 02 14:06:12 dBsooner: nice wild ass guess :P Feb 02 14:06:26 AnOutsider: I would say it will be carrier's decision on release. Feb 02 14:06:43 Here Sprint, VZW.. here is the new build.. Feb 02 14:06:53 Sprint tells Palm, Go ahead.. send it out. Feb 02 14:07:02 VZW tells Palm.. Its not ready. Feb 02 14:07:10 Palm pushes for sprint. Feb 02 14:07:14 just a guess. Feb 02 14:07:22 mayhap Feb 02 14:07:35 destinal-pre: Well.. I just assume things. Feb 02 14:07:40 AnOutsider: I suspect palm will hand it over to all carriers at once and it will be delayed for each carrier by their whim but wouldn't affect the others Feb 02 14:07:46 or, what he said Feb 02 14:08:01 ;) Feb 02 14:08:05 destinal-pre: I jus tlike it when people go, "It's 1201am on Feb 1st.. when is 1.4 going to be out?" Feb 02 14:08:13 We'd still get official doctors anyway for those that don't want to wait Feb 02 14:08:36 was it ever really promised for feb? Feb 02 14:08:51 AnOutsider: you would get a doctor for specific carrier.. if VZW or Sprint didn't accept it, their doctor wouldn't be released. Feb 02 14:09:13 destinal-pre: Kind of. Ruby said, "Which we will get to you all in February with the 1.4 release." Feb 02 14:09:16 in the keynote at CES. Feb 02 14:10:02 dBsooner: But we could apply the customizations ourselves if we want Feb 02 14:10:21 It's probably the customizations that are the reason for the delay's. ;) Feb 02 14:10:30 we should make an app to port doctors automagically :P Feb 02 14:10:41 rofl Feb 02 14:11:04 dBsooner: it's more review and approval I think Feb 02 14:11:09 download Carrier A's new, download Carrier B's old.. get carrier.tar from ipkg B, move it to carrier A's doctor. Feb 02 14:11:27 well carrier's put in new releases of apps in the carrier tars Feb 02 14:11:33 like Sprint Nav, etc. Feb 02 14:11:50 not always changed but always a delay Feb 02 14:11:57 true Feb 02 15:01:40 ack Feb 02 15:09:53 Hi,does anyone know if it's possible to hide default apps in the launcher? Feb 02 15:10:18 There are patches for that Feb 02 15:10:36 if there's not one for the app you want to hide, maybe you can edit one of the existing patches to hide the app that you want Feb 02 15:12:31 the patches just edit appinfo.json in the app directory Feb 02 15:13:41 AnOutsider: ok, thanks! Feb 02 15:26:01 good morning everyone Feb 02 15:26:38 morning Feb 02 15:26:38 morning Feb 02 15:27:31 I have a Preware question. I doctored my Pre, and Preware still thought all my patches were installed. Along wit hall my installed services. I EPR didn't find them to remove them, and I had to manually remove each and reinstall one at a time. Should I have wiped the phone before running the Dr? Feb 02 15:27:37 morning Feb 02 15:27:48 you have to do a full erase Feb 02 15:27:54 doctoring doesn't erase /media/internal Feb 02 15:28:02 therefor doesn't erase /media/cryptofs Feb 02 15:29:10 thats what I figured. now I know for next time. My volume down button stopped working, so I'm getting a refurb tomorrow. I'm also having that battery drain issue discussed on the forums. Hope 1.4 fixes that! Feb 02 15:30:24 battery drain? Feb 02 15:30:48 I have found the only "battery drain" issues are due to updater getting stuck. Feb 02 15:31:12 where it constantly holds the EV connection open and the CPU throttled even though it isn't doing anything. Feb 02 15:31:16 top shows I have something making the cpu run at 15% and up, its a mix of Luna and java Feb 02 15:31:36 if that were the case, wouldn't a restart fix it? Feb 02 15:31:54 usually Feb 02 15:32:08 ask egaudet_work about refurb devices though.. lol. Feb 02 15:32:22 it wasn't. I wish there were an app to show what is running IN luna. Feb 02 15:32:24 and I Feb 02 15:32:40 and I've read. I'm not looking forward to it Feb 02 15:32:42 Luna IS an app Feb 02 15:32:57 then cards are called by luna.. think of cards as webpages with javascript Feb 02 15:33:22 but if I have 10 cards open, top just shows more luna activity Feb 02 15:33:34 JsTop? Feb 02 15:33:37 or top? Feb 02 15:33:54 jstop shows what's running IN luna and what it's load is Feb 02 15:33:58 that's why he wrote it Feb 02 15:33:58 does luna use threads? try top shift-H Feb 02 15:34:19 JsTop will show what cards are open and what threads are set Feb 02 15:34:32 and how many nodes they're using Feb 02 15:35:24 but not their cpu utilization Feb 02 15:40:40 true Feb 02 15:41:11 Ron001 but you can try killing things. Feb 02 15:41:25 I just noticed that the previous methods I used to set up ssh access on the Pre for putty are now "depreciated". Is there something new that I missed? Feb 02 15:41:35 +Rick_work: true Feb 02 15:42:14 Ron001 what we're strongly suggesting these days is using openssh and installing a key on the pre and NOT making a non-privlideg user. Feb 02 15:42:25 OpenSSH is now installable through preware. Feb 02 15:42:51 there you go. thanks :) Feb 02 15:43:09 The thing that set that off was the recent iphone worm incident, where jailbroken iphones got hosed, because when you jailbreak an iphone it puts a password on root Feb 02 15:43:26 and the damned idiot script didn't ASK you for a password, it set it to a default Feb 02 15:43:48 so there were literally thousands of iphones out there with passwords on root that were the same..... Feb 02 15:43:52 (oops) Feb 02 15:44:37 but if you already have the old stuff in, leave it until the next time you doctor it. Feb 02 15:44:38 wow. didn't the script setup a user, that then required sudo to root? was it a risk on the pre? Feb 02 15:45:05 no, but we sort of decided to go with something that is REALLY secure instead. Feb 02 15:45:55 but we need to come up with a better way to make a key and get it onto the pre. :) Feb 02 15:47:03 ok, thanks Feb 02 16:12:30 Ron001: IMO even a user and sudo is overkill on a phone, (though it makes sense on a workstation or server) Feb 02 16:13:14 I just set a strong root password and use public key for convenience Feb 02 16:14:28 * nt4cats makes note to try strong as the root password when hacking destinal's server Feb 02 16:14:38 lol Feb 02 16:15:11 destinal-pre: unless someone was on my LAN, I don't know how they would have gotten to my pre anyway. I didn't open up ssh on evdo. Feb 02 16:15:12 hehe Feb 02 16:15:42 my cousin's favorite pw is I_Forget Feb 02 16:16:05 we had a customer once who called us up and asked is why in our documentation we insisted that all passwords be "Unique" because she wanted to set her own. Feb 02 16:16:41 don't you love working with the general public Feb 02 16:17:36 I have some great veterinary stories too, like the person who brought me their dog and wanted me to give it a distemper shot because he was misbehaving Feb 02 16:19:14 yeah if someone's brute force attacking you over WiFi that's pretty unusual but a good root pw will protect you perfectly well Feb 02 16:20:31 Rick_work: unique, lol Feb 02 16:23:45 Does anyone know how to enable and disable the GPS hardware Feb 02 16:23:48 as in Feb 02 16:24:03 more than just the setting on the privacy page Feb 02 16:24:30 schulman there really isn't a "more than that" Feb 02 16:24:40 software can turn the radio on and off. Feb 02 16:24:54 if you turn the radio off you turn the cell radio off too right Feb 02 16:25:01 because gps and the cell radio are on the same chip Feb 02 16:25:17 but functionally diffent. Feb 02 16:25:38 yes Feb 02 16:25:52 what are you concerned about / trying to accomplish ? Feb 02 16:26:04 kinda annoying, if you run radioDebug, which outputs a nice precise signal measurement Feb 02 16:26:16 it seems like it also checks the GPS too Feb 02 16:26:22 which consumes power Feb 02 16:26:39 well, the radioDebug knows the gps radio is on that chip, so it activates it and queries it. Feb 02 16:26:51 right Feb 02 16:26:54 they are "seperable" in that gps can be on or off independently of the cell chip, Feb 02 16:27:01 it can? Feb 02 16:27:11 in software? Feb 02 16:27:12 but they're both accessable to software, so if there's no way to "DISABLE" the gps radio. Feb 02 16:27:35 so, binary software can ALWAYS turn the gps reciever on. Feb 02 16:28:03 basically, you can not turn off the GPS radio and leave on the cell radio Feb 02 16:28:05 in software Feb 02 16:28:39 or, there is some way possibly but we do not understand the /dev/modemuart protocol well enough to do it Feb 02 16:58:23 Has anyone used the pre to connect to AceVPN via OpenVPN? Feb 02 17:01:37 nope. There has been vpn experimentation and what we know is on the wiki Feb 02 17:04:12 Ok, t hanks Feb 02 17:18:49 rick_work: going to www.webos-internals.org and typing "VPN" (or "vpn") in the search box yields no results :( Feb 02 17:19:04 nt4cats use the google search box Feb 02 17:23:06 i' Feb 02 17:23:14 i've always found mediawiki's search to be lackluster Feb 02 17:26:01 which is why we put a google custom search box on it Feb 02 17:26:46 i gathered that Feb 02 17:28:10 I think the mediawiki search is fine for most things, except for 3 letter searches Feb 02 17:28:31 but openvpn search works Feb 02 17:30:48 right - the mysql full text indexer only index words that are 4 characters or longer Feb 02 17:38:50 dBsooner: ping Feb 02 17:42:34 egaudet_work: yes? Feb 02 17:42:36 cd Feb 02 17:42:47 what is your status for the testing feed patch fix Feb 02 17:43:04 huh? Feb 02 17:43:10 what testing feed patch fix? Feb 02 17:43:11 ohh Feb 02 17:43:12 that one Feb 02 17:43:15 umm. Feb 02 17:43:18 i'll test more tonight Feb 02 17:43:19 :D Feb 02 18:02:26 i napped during a meeting this morning .. :( Feb 02 18:02:34 * Mousey is napping Feb 02 18:02:45 it's a quick way to get fired, that's for sure Feb 02 18:02:46 * Mousey sleeptypes Feb 02 18:03:17 did you just say you got fired? Feb 02 18:03:36 bpadalino|work: during a meeting... yes napping at work not so much Feb 02 18:04:23 nah, i didn't get fired Feb 02 18:04:30 depends on your seniority, I'm pretty sure I've seen my boss napping at meetings before Feb 02 18:04:34 but it's a quick way to get there Feb 02 18:05:11 napping on conference calls is easier Feb 02 18:05:16 the guy running the meeting just has the most monotonous voice and covering managerial stuff .. just .. so .. boring Feb 02 18:07:07 a couple years ago one of my friend's little brothers hit a deer on the way to some internship interview, ended up finding some other transportation, but ended up not getting into town until an hour or so before the interview after driving all night... fell asleep in the waiting area between interviews, was not offered the internship, poor guy. Feb 02 18:08:02 stupid deer Feb 02 18:08:09 bpadalino|work: most bosses realize that sort of thing Feb 02 18:08:22 bpadalino|work: help the guy running the meeting make it more interesting Feb 02 18:08:30 all this talk of napping has me sleepy... I should see if I can move to the empty office down the hall, it has a couch... Feb 02 18:08:37 your coworkers will thank you Feb 02 18:09:11 it's not empty - it's got a couch! Feb 02 18:09:35 i need to do some auto and cross correlation analysis which may end up being futile anyway Feb 02 18:09:43 I meant the coworker who used to inhabit it no longer works here Feb 02 18:09:50 there's a lot of empty offices on my floor :( Feb 02 18:10:15 ah Feb 02 18:10:16 ouch mdklein Feb 02 18:10:36 well, most have moved on to bigger labs Feb 02 18:10:41 so not a horrible thing Feb 02 18:10:51 but the group is definitely smaller Feb 02 18:11:17 can you share where you work? Feb 02 18:12:03 somewhere in london, uk :) Feb 02 18:14:43 shared it some place a little more private... not a huge secret, just not a huge banner I put out either heh Feb 02 18:31:09 ~~~~ Feb 02 18:31:11 ARGH!!! STOP IT jacques!!! Feb 02 18:39:20 infobot: welcome back :D Feb 02 18:39:21 Welcome to the party, back :D! Feb 02 18:39:30 infobot: welcome infobot Feb 02 18:39:31 Welcome to the party, infobot! Feb 02 18:39:33 :) Feb 02 18:40:11 infobot? Feb 02 18:40:25 ohhhhh, infobot Feb 02 18:46:35 infobot: lart yourself Feb 02 18:46:36 * infobot pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps yourself Feb 02 18:46:59 ~smack jacques Feb 02 18:47:00 * infobot smacks jacques upside the head. Feb 02 18:48:21 infobot: lart autotools Feb 02 18:48:21 * infobot burns autotools to a crisp with a laser Feb 02 18:49:24 * nt4cats thinks infobot has gotten more violent now that he was away for a few days .... Feb 02 18:50:55 infobot: lart pulseaudio Feb 02 18:50:55 * infobot raises middle finger to pulseaudio Feb 02 18:50:58 lol Feb 02 18:51:04 perfect Feb 02 18:51:44 haha Feb 02 18:51:46 ~botsnack Feb 02 18:51:47 dtzWill: :) Feb 02 18:52:06 * infobot strangles jacques with a 9-pole serial cable, courtesy of freetim Feb 02 18:52:12 LOL Feb 02 18:52:33 "and that's how you do it son" said Charlie Daniels Feb 02 18:53:14 heh if I were in SoCal I'd go to SCALE Feb 02 19:03:30 anyone know a fix to the virtual keyboard issue with the new patch? Feb 02 19:04:30 mmm maybe i fixed it Feb 02 19:04:38 deleted virtual-keyboard directory Feb 02 19:04:44 installed patch Feb 02 19:04:57 installed virtualkeyboard again Feb 02 19:05:02 just luna restarted Feb 02 19:05:05 * CorpX crosses fingers Feb 02 19:06:02 yay! Feb 02 19:11:22 hi all, noob to webos programming here, what should i use? eclipse or ares? Feb 02 19:12:51 you should try #webos for general webos development Feb 02 19:13:45 (but the answer is probably ares) Feb 02 19:16:00 bhern: thanks, i did try but it wouldn't let me send to channel. Feb 02 19:26:58 dBsooner: egaudet_work: you get my pm earlier? Feb 02 19:27:28 no Feb 02 19:28:34 sup people Feb 02 19:28:57 hi Feb 02 19:29:33 egaudet_work: you still working n themes or did u give up Feb 02 19:29:34 ? Feb 02 19:30:34 I dunno Feb 02 19:30:41 I'm still -thinking- about themes Feb 02 19:31:03 I haven't put more code past the current C service until the API can be hashed out Feb 02 19:31:22 I want to do unionfs Feb 02 19:32:06 fuse or kmod? Feb 02 19:32:10 fuse Feb 02 19:32:31 well we definately need to get that into preware Feb 02 19:32:37 cause it could be used for many tricks Feb 02 19:32:51 we need to figure out logistics though, like updates, and failures that could be caused by corrupted system images etc... Feb 02 19:33:02 unionfs-fuse is ready for preware Feb 02 19:33:15 its in cross-compile Feb 02 19:33:33 but we need to do more testing with it I think Feb 02 19:33:53 well how do we get it in preware from cross-compile? Feb 02 19:35:02 build.git Makefile, but i dont' think we should until we test things and have a package that actually needs it. We could put it in the test feed though I think Feb 02 19:35:35 egaudet_work: we still need a "hidden" flag in the ipkg spec Feb 02 19:35:41 so that preware can "hide" packages Feb 02 19:35:50 I agree Feb 02 19:36:48 i want an infobot app now Feb 02 19:37:58 windzilla: write it now Feb 02 19:38:43 PuffTheMagic: terminus uses upstart? Feb 02 19:38:51 i did Feb 02 19:38:53 it does not any more Feb 02 19:39:12 oh, the dep flag is still on it Feb 02 19:39:20 eah i knmow Feb 02 19:39:26 lol lazy :p Feb 02 19:39:49 zsoc i like to see how many e-mails i can get about it Feb 02 19:39:57 PuffTheMagic: I'm working on my first application ever already! its an EKG interpretation app (not automated, but more a set of rules someone can follow) Feb 02 19:39:59 ha Feb 02 19:40:30 windzilla: a flow chart? Feb 02 19:41:38 PuffTheMagic: yes, to an extent, but hopefully more dynamic, descision tree-ish. hey its my first time writing anything outside of stata Feb 02 19:41:45 PuffTheMagic: what are arrows in terminus? Feb 02 19:42:02 zsoc there are none yet Feb 02 19:42:16 im trying to fix the main bugs first Feb 02 19:42:25 o Feb 02 19:42:26 k Feb 02 19:42:37 which i welcome help with Feb 02 19:49:38 * xcomp finally gave up and installed his own git repo at work Feb 02 19:49:45 it's inevitable Feb 02 19:49:57 at some point we all get fed up and run our own git repo Feb 02 19:50:09 Do I need to initialize/setup the accelerometer before using it (SDL) Feb 02 19:50:16 if it goes according to plan you'll end up getting others to use it and then they'll have no choice but to set it up officially Feb 02 19:51:34 that's what i got Palm to do Feb 02 19:51:35 yep Feb 02 19:51:37 i read an article on using git-svn as the interface between your own git repo and the svn repo you may have to deal with at work Feb 02 19:51:41 and people still fight it Feb 02 19:52:01 I'm still trying to turn them on to using an issue tracker for development Feb 02 19:52:03 yep. it also makes for a nice way to import your svn repo into git so you can officially switch over Feb 02 19:52:23 geist: here the only versioning system in use is clearcase Feb 02 19:52:31 ... oh damn Feb 02 19:52:37 yeah. Feb 02 19:52:38 you've got a clearcase to switch then! Feb 02 19:52:40 i... dont know what to say Feb 02 19:52:53 clearcase is the spawn of satan Feb 02 19:53:09 though i shouldn't joke. there are a surprising number of companies i've seen and dealt with that dont use source control at all Feb 02 19:53:13 Any example/info on how to use the accelerometer from SDL Feb 02 19:53:14 and in any case, it's not even installed on the unix workstations Feb 02 19:53:16 to this very day Feb 02 19:53:30 we have literally thousands of programs Feb 02 19:53:41 none of them using any form of source control whatsoever Feb 02 19:53:42 one of the nice things about git is it overlays on top of whatever else pretty easily Feb 02 19:53:54 you can always just create a local repo on your box on top of your checkout dir Feb 02 19:54:18 though probably less so weith clearcase Feb 02 19:54:19 I have contract programmers I work with who have never used source control. Lots of windows guys just don't. SVN and GIT just don't handle the binary blobs all that well, and visual source safe sucks. Feb 02 19:54:22 since it's hosted on the server Feb 02 19:54:25 photon70: accelerometer is input 'joystick', 3 axis Feb 02 19:54:34 no buttons Feb 02 19:54:37 Rick_work: yeah, exactly Feb 02 19:54:43 i just dont feel safe hacking code without it Feb 02 19:54:51 i want to see what others are doing, what myself is doing Feb 02 19:55:27 i think a lot of the guys i work with just never had any type of introduction to good source control here at work Feb 02 19:55:30 zsoc: Do I need to enable its events Feb 02 19:55:41 geist - neither do I, but the whole issue of windows forms and screens that are really databases, is 'hard' since you can't diff them. Feb 02 19:55:52 zsoc: or is it enabled by default Feb 02 19:55:56 the current repo i am in is just branches .. no trunk .. it's a bit silly to even call it that Feb 02 19:55:57 yah. perforce works reasionably well for large blobs of binary Feb 02 19:56:00 photon70: you can use the source of super tux as an example, it's on the git Feb 02 19:56:05 but then you have to pay for it and it doesn't work remotely very well Feb 02 19:56:15 geist yeah git is awesome Feb 02 19:56:22 and really, git can deal with binary blobs reasonably well, just not gigantic stuff Feb 02 19:56:24 SDL_JoystickInit or something photon70 check some of the games like supertux or classic invaders Feb 02 19:56:24 i use it with out remotes too Feb 02 19:56:56 yeah, i've been pushing git hard at Palm and managed to get quite a bit of it converted over Feb 02 19:57:05 thanks guys Feb 02 19:57:12 since we have a one-repo-per-project build system it works fine anyway Feb 02 19:57:15 geist: im about to start converting the people in my lab to git Feb 02 19:57:25 each project can choose to implement their source control how they want to as long as the build server can get to it Feb 02 19:57:53 chromeexperiments.com is neat, could be good for webos Feb 02 19:58:17 geist, the underlying problem is, we've written tools to unroll the forms and screens into json files, so that they -- can -- be diff'ed and merged and so forth, and then rolled back up. But the windoz guys dislike the pain of checking out the text files, running the roll-up app before they can start dinking with them... Feb 02 19:58:18 I bet we're going to find out what the c40 is, and it'll be something ridiculous. like an aircard lol Feb 02 19:58:37 one thing for sure, we're not finding out from geist. :) Feb 02 19:58:47 hmm? Feb 02 19:58:51 c40? Feb 02 19:59:12 Sprint's had a palm device on their inventory screens for several weeks, which no one knows what it is. Feb 02 19:59:25 ah. well, we dont name stuff like c40 Feb 02 19:59:29 so i doubt its ours Feb 02 19:59:37 no, it's a SPRINT internal name. Feb 02 20:00:00 oh carriers and your leaky web pages Feb 02 20:00:03 how we love you so. Feb 02 20:00:10 and when I had a nice chat with folks I know in app development at sprint, the response I got was "ICNCOD" Feb 02 20:00:17 geist: oh. uh... there we're a bunch of sprint thingies.. it was like p100, p120, and c40 Feb 02 20:00:32 I just wants me a Pre Plus ;( Feb 02 20:00:34 that's a good idea. at apple we always used numeric code names like that Feb 02 20:00:36 geist: but nevermind, obviously I don't expect you to comment Feb 02 20:00:37 But I don't want Verizon Feb 02 20:01:25 psykoz find a friendly sprint tech... buy a verizon pre, and put it onto your sprint account. You just have to have someone who's willing to port in the device. Feb 02 20:01:50 yeah, i think it's the same Feb 02 20:01:56 I've heard Sprint is a bitch about non sprint ESNs so *shrug* I'll just wait Feb 02 20:02:03 different set of customization packages, but nothing big Feb 02 20:02:10 One day Palm might care about us bastard step childs on sprint *grins* Feb 02 20:02:35 geist, used to work for Apple as well? Feb 02 20:02:40 psykoz it's not THAT hard to find a tech to import an ESN. Feb 02 20:02:44 palm cares about all it's customers Feb 02 20:03:44 geist: now if you can push palm to redo luna using evas/ecore/edje ... Feb 02 20:03:45 zsoc, I'm kidding (hence the *grins*) Feb 02 20:04:06 xcomp: you're a funny guy Feb 02 20:04:58 What we need to be breathlessly awaiting is the stupid sdl code from qualcomm running on the pixi...... Feb 02 20:06:09 psykoz: yeah. worked on iphone prior to palm Feb 02 20:06:22 the pixi GPU is the mbx core, isn't it ? Feb 02 20:06:32 no. it's QCs own Feb 02 20:06:40 ouch Feb 02 20:06:43 i think it was based on a design bought from ATI a few years back Feb 02 20:06:46 actually it's quite nice Feb 02 20:06:55 is it really ? Feb 02 20:07:04 yeah, easily comperable to the SGX Feb 02 20:07:22 interesting! i didn't realize it had that kind of polygon rate Feb 02 20:07:32 I find it odd palm is being so quiet about the Pixi not handling sdl... Feb 02 20:07:33 but being that it's completely priprietary like all GPUs we're at the mercy of their software and its quality, etc Feb 02 20:08:08 zsoc -- what he just said IS a comment about that... and it's about all you're going to get. :) Feb 02 20:08:08 zsoc: we get quiet when we have no news to repot Feb 02 20:08:12 did qualcomm shoot soda through their nose when you asked to get linux drivers for their processor gpu ? Feb 02 20:08:13 dont read much into it Feb 02 20:08:36 geist: I try not to :) Feb 02 20:08:43 i have acknowledged that there is a GPU. what we're going to do with it i cannot say Feb 02 20:08:53 but there is no evil plot Feb 02 20:08:59 just nothing to report right now Feb 02 20:09:33 i get it - i would just be surprised if qualcomm had opengl drivers ready for their chips right off the bat Feb 02 20:09:48 other than, as was obvious to anyone with half-a-brain, you're dependent on the hardware vendor's software's availability and quality. Anything else would be violating qualcomm's nda's. Feb 02 20:10:04 sadly we are very dependent on QC for their stuff Feb 02 20:10:08 sicne their cpus are such a closed box Feb 02 20:10:11 totally frusterating Feb 02 20:10:31 though android did an amazing job of prying it mostly open Feb 02 20:10:45 how about jazelle support for java? worth it or not? Feb 02 20:10:53 jazelle is dead Feb 02 20:10:54 jazelle is dead Feb 02 20:11:02 it's not even in the newer arm cores Feb 02 20:11:07 geist, it's a business model that has worked for them quite well. Feb 02 20:11:22 really. Feb 02 20:11:43 we looked at jazelle back in the Danger days to see but it was really a big scam Feb 02 20:11:44 when people demand more than just a reference design and a UI toolkit for a phone .. it's harder for QC to stay closed like that Feb 02 20:12:09 essentially jazelle can run a few of the opcodes, but to really integrate it into your jvm you have to get this big binary blob from ARM and then you have to essentialyl write your jvm around it Feb 02 20:12:21 since we had a custom one at danger (same as at palm) its worthless Feb 02 20:12:38 ugh. Feb 02 20:12:45 and it was very dependent on being able to trap exceptions and whatnot at a low level, so i doublt it'd work in linux that well Feb 02 20:13:15 basically it could run most of the regular opcodes directly, but as soon as it hits a method call or whatnot it drops and exception and traps into their code Feb 02 20:13:29 which then relies on everything being laid out in their way, etc Feb 02 20:13:36 i dont know if anyone ever bought it Feb 02 20:13:45 http://www.effectgames.com/effect/games/crystalgalaxy/ Feb 02 20:13:50 thats too bad. Feb 02 20:14:12 HAPPY GROUNDHOG DAY! Feb 02 20:14:25 what arm has now is thumb2ee Feb 02 20:14:29 about a decade ago, transmeta had a jvm port that was never released. it hauled ass at the time. Feb 02 20:14:41 which is a special mode of thumb2 that has some extensions meant for being JITted to Feb 02 20:14:50 like null pointer trapping, array bounds checking, etc Feb 02 20:15:40 thumb2ee = jazelle rct no? Feb 02 20:16:11 depends on what your statements actually means Feb 02 20:16:12 rct no? Feb 02 20:16:34 oops lack of punctuation =) Feb 02 20:17:03 thumb2ee = jazelle rct, no? i was under the impression that jazelle rct was the marketing name so as to speak. Feb 02 20:17:12 *shrug* Feb 02 20:17:13 no idea Feb 02 20:17:15 never heard of that Feb 02 20:17:31 all i know is what thumb2ee actually does, which is completely different from jazelle classic Feb 02 20:17:46 see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#Thumb_Execution_Environment_.28ThumbEE.29 Feb 02 20:18:05 kay, well there you go Feb 02 20:18:06 what is that crystal galaxy using? I have flashblock on, was expecting to have to click "allow this site" Feb 02 20:18:21 Just all js? Feb 02 20:19:02 them marketing names.... =) Feb 02 20:19:42 * geist wanders off to work Feb 02 20:19:56 guess there's a stack overflow question about this too http://stackoverflow.com/questions/704840/what-is-your-experience-with-arm-jazelle Feb 02 20:30:24 ~seen incidentist Feb 02 20:30:27 i haven't seen 'incidentist', sugardave Feb 02 20:31:01 ~seen sugardave in his boxers Feb 02 20:31:02 nt4cats: i haven't seen 'sugardave in his boxers' Feb 02 20:33:51 it's a sight to behold, let me tell you Feb 02 20:33:56 don't forget your sunglasses Feb 02 20:35:43 I think it's time for some coffee Feb 02 20:38:55 ew, the nes emulator wants people to pay for it Feb 02 20:39:23 I can't imagine nintendo would appreciate that Feb 02 20:39:29 they hate emulators to begin with Feb 02 20:39:41 yep Feb 02 20:40:03 they probably hate it but I don't think there's really much they can do Feb 02 20:40:10 emulators in themselves aren't really illegal Feb 02 20:42:33 but what I wonder is if he actually wrote that emulator Feb 02 20:42:59 because if he's just selling off someone else's code, like another nes emulator, that's /bad/ Feb 02 20:43:46 well, no if it's an open source nes emulator it's perfectly ok to sell it, you just have to make the source available to your mods. Feb 02 20:45:38 hello Feb 02 20:45:50 VincentLaw: I assure you that's what's happening. I'll look into it :D Feb 02 20:46:10 Rick_work: where is the source? :D Feb 02 20:46:21 ahhh well, that would be the issue then.... Feb 02 20:46:25 unless he wrote it Feb 02 20:46:43 I assure you they did not write an nes emulator Feb 02 20:46:52 .. /probably/ Feb 02 20:48:03 well... depending on where they're planning on selling it... i bet nintendo could flex enough muscle to get palm to yank it from catalog :-p Feb 02 20:48:15 it's not in the catalog Feb 02 20:48:15 I dunno, I just don't see emulators making official distribution channels Feb 02 20:49:02 to be fair, this guy was selling emulators for PalmOS for a while apparently Feb 02 20:49:12 but he sold emulators for numerous systems too Feb 02 20:49:28 I just find it hard to believe that he self-wrote all of them >.> Feb 02 20:49:35 oh, is this the guy that wrote it as a npapi plugin? Feb 02 20:49:48 looks like sdl and npapi Feb 02 20:50:01 there's mention in the changelog of sdl Feb 02 20:50:24 he's been selling an nes emulator for palmOS since 2002 Feb 02 20:50:44 kamelsoft.com Feb 02 20:50:44 maybe then... just seems.. weird. Feb 02 20:51:02 yeah, especially on palmOS, when LJP was easily better lol Feb 02 20:51:03 I dont know. emulators /costing money/ is just strange to me Feb 02 20:51:04 and free Feb 02 20:51:26 I mean I don't mind donating for stuff, like VBA and such? but paying seems a little immoral for some reason Feb 02 20:51:32 I guess it isn't in the end, but Feb 02 20:52:41 heh we should make a free nes emu :) Feb 02 20:52:45 easiest way to solve _that_ problem Feb 02 20:52:50 ;) Feb 02 20:53:05 although i kid, there's lots of other work to be done and no reason to step on other people's shoes Feb 02 20:53:06 compile fecux for the pre? Feb 02 20:53:15 but i'd be surprised if someone didn't package up a nes emulator for free Feb 02 20:53:37 why shouldn't we? FCEUX is available in an sdl version. Feb 02 20:53:37 Rick_work: well sure, but packaged. Feb 02 20:54:01 after all, NES was the first to be ON the pre Feb 02 20:54:18 right, thats my point. Let's just go ahead and package it. Feb 02 20:54:19 it just wasn't ever packaged. it was all directFB from console Feb 02 20:54:23 hrm, I can't really complain about charging for emus I guess ... I bought bleem! for the pc... and some gb emu for my ooooollllddd as dirt wince handheld back in the day Feb 02 20:54:37 Rick_work: oh mostly I figure there's still new ground to break with snes, etc, and that'd be where i personally would look before porting things to undercut commercial versions. Feb 02 20:54:54 Rick_work: maybe it's b/c kalemsoft guys mentioned they might help with VBA and I don't like burning bridges for no reason Feb 02 20:55:09 Rick_work: although really I don't think that's ever happening :) Feb 02 20:55:24 especially since you'd be competing with his gbc emulator :p Feb 02 20:55:39 VincentLaw: they have a gbc emulator? o_O Feb 02 20:55:46 not on webos, yet Feb 02 20:55:50 but he has one for palmos Feb 02 20:56:07 so I imagine he'd want to port that eventually Feb 02 20:56:30 virtualboy? Feb 02 20:56:31 he was working on that nes emu before sdl was even an option iirc, I think he was poking destinal about the terminal plugin stuff pretty early on Feb 02 20:56:32 VincentLaw: right. I'm not sure what the point would be. sure vba isn't the bestest most amazing thing ever, but it'd have to be compellingly better to sell it; and I don't see that being worth the porting efforts Feb 02 20:56:33 isnt that gbc? Feb 02 20:57:12 yeah. vba has /perfect/ emulation of gb/gbc, so Feb 02 20:57:13 VincentLaw: errrr i mean properly done and with all the rough edges polished? meh maybe that's worth it, shrug Feb 02 20:57:19 virtualboy? wouldn't you need 2 pres for that? one for each eye? Feb 02 20:57:33 haha i hope someone does that :) Feb 02 20:57:37 and honestly I don't see his NesEm being that much more polished than yours anyway, just with a bit of mojo UI, that's it Feb 02 20:58:17 VincentLaw: yeah, mojo integration is nice. maybe i should sit down at some point and work out the npapi stuff. (errr work out==ask those here that already know :D) Feb 02 20:59:34 tbqh I'd rather have SNES than a more polished VBA. Feb 02 20:59:35 but i'd probably work on a new project first :). Feb 02 20:59:38 speed > style Feb 02 20:59:43 VincentLaw: exactly :) Feb 02 21:00:22 besides you could always just get a few pngs that looks like the mojo UI and call it a day haha Feb 02 21:00:27 hahaha Feb 02 21:01:19 Rick_work: fceux SDK only supports HWSURFACE with doublebuf Feb 02 21:01:36 Rick_work: we would need to make an gles surface for it Feb 02 21:01:53 Rick_work: and then actually _port_ it, (rom picket, etc) Feb 02 21:02:17 zsoc: I'd imagine very much lots of the vba stuff would apply there Feb 02 21:02:21 well crud. Feb 02 21:02:43 yeah, just abstract the rom picker from vba and apply it to everything :p Feb 02 21:02:58 heh, b/c it's the best rom picker ever! xD :P Feb 02 21:03:06 although a thought is perhaps merging them, a la ljp deal Feb 02 21:03:11 not sure i like the coupling though Feb 02 21:03:19 Rick_work: but like Will said. he did exactly each of those things for vba, and we can use the same work Feb 02 21:03:35 what emulator source was the one that used dfb back in the day? Feb 02 21:03:49 I thought it was fceux Feb 02 21:04:18 I still don't understand the no HWSURFACE support in Pre SDL thing - what are the implications of that? you can have hardware 3d accel without supporting HWSURFACE ? Feb 02 21:04:27 fceultra Feb 02 21:04:33 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Nintendo the old wiki article Feb 02 21:05:29 jacques: er.. it doesn't support /SDL's/ implementationof hwsurface Feb 02 21:05:43 jacques: and there's comments in the patch about instability Feb 02 21:05:51 zsoc: what are the implications? Feb 02 21:05:59 what about http://jturner.tapetrade.net/sharpnes/ ??? Feb 02 21:06:07 we should port directfb to gles :) Feb 02 21:06:15 any SDL app which uses HWSURFACE won't have hardware accel ? Feb 02 21:06:33 jacques: er, no it just won't work Feb 02 21:07:01 zsoc: you can't just change HWSURFACE to SWSURFACE or something ? Feb 02 21:07:07 jacques: basically the webos-sdl derivitive can't save a surface in hardware memory Feb 02 21:07:23 jacques: sure you can, but then you're drawing _on the framebuffer_ Feb 02 21:07:55 problem is keeping luna from exploding, right? :p Feb 02 21:07:58 zsoc: does that mean an extra copy is required ? from GPU memory to framebuffer? or is it even worse than that? Feb 02 21:08:08 nothing to do with Luna, er.. maybe Feb 02 21:08:18 Rick_work: that needs mono afaict? Feb 02 21:09:05 jacques: it means there are no copies. generally afaik things are rendered on a separate buffer, and then swapped to the surface buffer Feb 02 21:09:08 are we gaining any performance at all from SDL's GLES support ? Feb 02 21:09:13 otherwise you _see_ stuff drawing Feb 02 21:09:26 jacques: performance? err.. we'll it's the only option Feb 02 21:09:43 jacques: sdl_gles /works/, sdl_hwsurface /does not work/ Feb 02 21:10:21 it's just that so many things use hwsurface. some we can fake with swsurface, but some we can't. and either was gles surfaces are generally better Feb 02 21:10:36 http://www.hakubi.us/nofrendo/ ????? Feb 02 21:10:39 s/was/way Feb 02 21:11:12 Rick_work: grep recursively for HWSURFACE and DOUBLEBUF, :p Feb 02 21:11:24 ok, I can do that. Feb 02 21:11:30 besides, even if it was swsurface we'd _want_ gles Feb 02 21:11:34 I have no idea what I'm looking for unles you tell me..... Feb 02 21:11:40 because swsurface implies cpu impact Feb 02 21:11:41 zsoc: so apps using sdl_gles are generally getting "full hw accell performance" ? Feb 02 21:12:19 zsoc: and what about GLES 1.1 vs 2.0 - can one use 2.0 with sdl_gles ? Feb 02 21:12:22 jacques: nah. some of them (like vba) are just makin a rectangle primitive in gles (the size of the screen) and drawing a 'texture' onit Feb 02 21:12:39 jacques: either works. we use mostly 2.0 where possible Feb 02 21:12:54 ok good (about the 2.0) Feb 02 21:13:24 Rick_work: the point is, other way we might as we'll use gles. so we might as we'll port fceu's existing GL defs to es2 Feb 02 21:13:33 ah Feb 02 21:13:33 s/other/either Feb 02 21:13:53 I wish I knew what performance to expect - for example for nehe lesson N, the SGX in the Pre should achieve F fps Feb 02 21:14:12 This is all to my 'existing understanding' based on a lot of doc reading and talking to experts. I am no expert myself. Feb 02 21:14:26 jacques: too Mary variables Feb 02 21:15:05 I was a bit disappointed with the FPS of the glues_demos I ported - one gets 80fps and the other 40fps - they are so simple graphically I was expecting more - but that might be because theya re using CM (1.1) Feb 02 21:15:37 jacques: 2.0 has advantages... they aren't always speed tho. Feb 02 21:16:06 jacques: app catalog games probably use 1.1 Feb 02 21:16:07 my understanding is the SGX is native 2.0 hardware, and the CM lib slows things down Feb 02 21:16:21 zsoc: yes all the app catalog games I've looked at use CM Feb 02 21:16:31 jacques: that's driver territory, so.. no idea Feb 02 21:17:06 Rick_work: from the nofrendo page: "nofrendo: shitty NES emulator" Feb 02 21:17:13 Rick_work: haven't tried it, but not sure i want to :) Feb 02 21:17:13 I read that on some iphone 3gs thread Feb 02 21:17:51 lol Feb 02 21:18:43 jacques: trustworthy source :D Feb 02 21:20:04 one encouraging thing is the current app cat games like NFSU seem to have acceptable performance - I just wish I knew exactly how they did it Feb 02 21:20:34 jacques: do we have examples of bad performance in test apps? Feb 02 21:21:23 zsoc: well the glues_demos I mentioned above - they seem slower than I would expect Feb 02 21:21:24 nano-hamster wheels provide the needed performance boost Feb 02 21:21:45 does anyone _want_ synergy? Feb 02 21:21:47 bhern: do you know where I can get some of those? Feb 02 21:22:11 Can someone tell me in what directory Preware is installing OpenSSH? The suggestions in the wiki don't seem to work for me. Feb 02 21:22:13 glxgears is the only performance benchmark anyone needs >.> Feb 02 21:22:17 zsoc: synergy the input sharing program? Feb 02 21:22:20 VincentLaw: lol Feb 02 21:22:23 yah Feb 02 21:22:56 VincentLaw: uh... webOS doesn't support glx... Feb 02 21:22:59 or x at all Feb 02 21:23:11 well it's gonna get pretty bad scores then! Feb 02 21:23:13 yet Feb 02 21:23:14 >.> Feb 02 21:23:14 :-D Feb 02 21:23:17 zsoc: not _yet_ ;). err don't mean to ruin your surprise Feb 02 21:23:44 i'm sure you could port glxgears to gllunagears Feb 02 21:23:48 dtzWill: why would we _want_ x support? Feb 02 21:24:06 VincentLaw: glesgears you mean? :) Feb 02 21:24:14 zsoc: easy app support, many more than could otherwise be ported manually Feb 02 21:24:35 * VincentLaw writes a mojogears app Feb 02 21:24:37 zsoc: and just b/c it would be cool O:) Feb 02 21:24:40 dtzWill: ... unless someone could convince me otherwise... X is a bloated mother Feb 02 21:24:50 dtzWill: that's the main reason I want it Feb 02 21:25:05 zsoc: there's stripped down versions. kdrive for example, although i think they deprecated the sdl backend :( Feb 02 21:25:24 dtzWill: argh. I was counting on the SDL backent being maintained Feb 02 21:25:27 jacques: haha :D Feb 02 21:25:35 jacques: errr haha at that being why you wanted it Feb 02 21:25:40 :-P Feb 02 21:25:53 jacques: afaict it's rathe not maintained. some talk of --dangerous-i-know-what-i'm-doing Feb 02 21:26:00 * Rick_work considers attempting to move mono into the wipk. :-) (hahahahahaha) Feb 02 21:26:12 jacques: but you might be able to go back to when it worked and grab it Feb 02 21:26:28 jacques: it's not in the latest tree but wasn't removed all that long ago, idk maybe it worked well enough then Feb 02 21:26:37 jacques: would be freaking sweet if it did :D Feb 02 21:26:42 dtzWill: what does kdrive support these days? fbdev ? directfb ? Feb 02 21:27:11 fbcon/dev is all we need Feb 02 21:27:33 zsoc: but that won't interoperate with lunasysmgr will it ? Feb 02 21:27:48 I want X screen in a card Feb 02 21:27:53 jacques: quick glance suggests fbdev, xephyr Feb 02 21:28:02 jacques: right. that's where SDL comes in Feb 02 21:28:03 jacques: yeah sdl was our best bet on that front :/. Feb 02 21:28:20 yeah I am bummed to hear it's removed / deprecated Feb 02 21:28:28 I wonder how hard it would be to put back in ... Feb 02 21:28:36 jacques: http://gitorious.org/xorg-next/xserver/commit/52bc6d944946e66ea2cc685feaeea40bb496ea83 Feb 02 21:28:45 jacques: i think thta's when it got nuked Feb 02 21:28:45 it's a very small jump from fbdev to SDK imo Feb 02 21:29:08 jacques: note that's just 3mo ago so..... i mean oh noes we're running 3mo old x :). although they probably removed it for a reason... Feb 02 21:29:41 dtzWill: yeah question is was reason technical or political / logistical Feb 02 21:29:43 someone email that guy lol Feb 02 21:29:57 /j #kdrive :p Feb 02 21:30:01 jacques: agreed. honestly i'd just revert and give it a go. Feb 02 21:30:16 do it Feb 02 21:30:16 now Feb 02 21:30:20 jacques: in fact i started doing that but my sb2 python setup is booched (mostly due to 64-bit host) Feb 02 21:30:27 what are these elephants he speaks of ? Feb 02 21:30:29 jacques: so i just gave up temporarily Feb 02 21:30:51 jacques: copyright line? Feb 02 21:30:52 jacques: wrapping X in SDL is rather... backwards. Feb 02 21:31:00 jacques: LOL the company name :) Feb 02 21:31:09 (for everyone else) Copyright © 2004 PillowElephantBadgerBankPond Feb 02 21:31:34 jacques: fwiw the sdl implementation does look REALLY simple Feb 02 21:31:42 is that a joke? Feb 02 21:31:44 jacques: almost... _too_ simple. curious how it works Feb 02 21:31:47 dtzWill: I kinda expect it would be Feb 02 21:31:48 lol @ copyright Feb 02 21:31:56 argh i have shit to do, you guys are getting me excited haha Feb 02 21:32:06 they might be just drawing on an sdl surface as if it were a fb Feb 02 21:32:09 drawing me in with talk of porting x and new emus Feb 02 21:32:11 dtzWill: we are the only ones that really care Feb 02 21:32:25 zsoc: ? Feb 02 21:32:51 dtzWill: forget about your life/school/family. -internals is your family now. Feb 02 21:33:05 hmm, the hard parts are probably the input device support Feb 02 21:33:24 which could be ... really hard ... maybe Feb 02 21:33:29 SYNERGY lol Feb 02 21:33:42 server on webOS, client on X ;) Feb 02 21:34:28 jacques: meh, it already uses mouse/keyboard via sdl judging from that patch Feb 02 21:34:51 jacques: although i'm not looking too closely. could just be misnamed functions :) Feb 02 21:35:07 jacques: anyway making it have useful controls, which is probably what you meant, might be a different matter Feb 02 21:35:12 jacques: mostly the mouse i mean Feb 02 21:35:42 dtzWill: that's such a small amount of code, it makes it look easy Feb 02 21:35:47 alright well i gotta go take care of some stuff, keep me posted on any progress :D Feb 02 21:35:52 I wonder if it ever worked right ... Feb 02 21:35:56 jacques: that was why i commented to that effect earlier Feb 02 21:36:01 jacques: almost seems too simple haha Feb 02 21:36:06 agreed Feb 02 21:36:14 but as zsoc pointed out.. what really does it need to do? Feb 02 21:36:15 * zsoc wants the pre2 to have an autostereoscopic display Feb 02 21:36:24 render to surface--easy peasy, and route keyboard/mouse stuff Feb 02 21:36:31 yeah Feb 02 21:36:32 errr the sdl-specific stuff i mean Feb 02 21:36:35 * VincentLaw wants an OLED display Feb 02 21:36:38 screw that 3d crap Feb 02 21:36:41 so meh maybe it works great :) Feb 02 21:37:04 someone email the old maintainer? Feb 02 21:37:14 VincentLaw: smiled ;) Feb 02 21:37:20 er... amoled Feb 02 21:37:25 weirdautocorrect Feb 02 21:37:30 haha Feb 02 21:37:41 whatever the zunehd has is omgbeautiful Feb 02 21:38:19 I can't reconcile the simplicity of the code with the comment about it being too much trouble to maintain Feb 02 21:38:32 jacques: exactly lol Feb 02 21:38:44 is kdrive the same as tinyx? Feb 02 21:38:54 maybe the code that's in there simply doesn't work and that's why it looks simple :p Feb 02 21:39:31 but it looks sane Feb 02 21:40:30 ~wiki kdrive Feb 02 21:40:35 haha nope Feb 02 21:40:36 At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kdrive (URL), Wikipedia explains: "'KDrive' (or 'freedesktop.org Xserver' or just 'Xserver') is a small X Window System server implementation created by Keith Packard. Unlike the X.Org Server, KDrive was not based on XFree86 code. It was used by X.Org developers as a testing ground for new ideas, such as EXA. It practically superseded SmallX (also known as TinyX) and is commonly used in embedded systems with the need for .. Feb 02 21:40:42 NICE Feb 02 21:40:44 ~botsnack Feb 02 21:40:45 dtzWill: thanks Feb 02 21:41:05 zsoc: there's your answer :) Feb 02 21:42:17 it's too simple to not work ;-) Feb 02 21:43:04 let's ask keithp Feb 02 21:43:56 but I don't think he's on Feb 02 21:45:50 he's been idle for 9 hours Feb 02 21:46:42 IDLE Feb 02 21:46:43 omg Feb 02 21:46:48 time to wake him up sounds like Feb 02 21:46:56 zsoc: ah, for me whois doesn't even show that, nor what channels he's on Feb 02 21:47:13 jacques: he is on 0 channels Feb 02 21:47:21 strange Feb 02 21:47:21 how about i tell you how much my ass muscle hurts Feb 02 21:48:46 PuffTheMagic: pics or it didn't happen Feb 02 21:48:59 please no Feb 02 21:49:04 i cant take a picture from inside my ass muscle Feb 02 21:49:28 i hope its not a pinched nerve or disc issue Feb 02 21:49:41 or a torn muscle Feb 02 21:50:04 i would think there would be brusing and visible signs if it was torn Feb 02 21:50:14 and i think it would be more pain than this Feb 02 21:50:26 it only hurts when i go from sitting to standing Feb 02 21:50:35 or if ia bend a certain way Feb 02 21:50:40 which streches that glute Feb 02 21:51:13 who strains their ass sledding? Feb 02 21:51:20 what the heck is this: http://gitorious.org/xorg-next/opengles-sgx-img Feb 02 21:52:13 its a stub/empty repo Feb 02 21:52:17 haha Feb 02 21:52:18 for the x11 driver Feb 02 21:52:21 from nokia Feb 02 21:53:49 jacques: dont ever interrupt a discussion about my again again Feb 02 21:54:03 a/y again/y ass/ Feb 02 21:54:15 lol Feb 02 21:56:04 can someone help me with OpenSSH? I'm following the wiki, but I get an error when running "/opt/bin/ssh-keygen" in the terminal window. I installed OpenSSH via Preware. Feb 02 21:58:52 PuffTheMagic: I did something like that to myself last year. Feb 02 21:59:18 I have no coverage so it eventually just went away after tons of warm epsom salt baths. Feb 02 21:59:38 ird: i none either ;) Feb 02 22:01:09 Puff: thought you were going to college, don't they have a health center? Feb 02 22:01:39 PuffTheMagic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_sulfate Feb 02 22:02:18 mdklein: yeah but i dont know if i signed up for their coverage Feb 02 22:02:19 also relieves herpes outbreaks, if you've got that too :p Feb 02 22:02:33 Ron001: try just ssh-keygen? Feb 02 22:02:43 ird: i know something else the blocks herpes Feb 02 22:02:56 not sleeping with people that have herpes? Feb 02 22:03:01 or lysine Feb 02 22:03:06 I read too much.. Feb 02 22:03:09 zsoc: file not found Feb 02 22:03:10 THC does Feb 02 22:03:17 I know all about that. Feb 02 22:03:21 Well THC Feb 02 22:03:25 love the topic Feb 02 22:03:37 Ron001: what's the error when you run the other command? Feb 02 22:03:37 not it being a relief from herpes :p Feb 02 22:03:47 THC sits in the receceptors that herpes simplex usually attaches Feb 02 22:03:48 same Feb 02 22:03:58 I uninstalled and reinstalled via preware Feb 02 22:04:00 but since THC is fat soluable it sits there for a long time Feb 02 22:04:00 the channel is #webos-internals, not #PuffTheMagics-internals Feb 02 22:04:03 blocking herpes Feb 02 22:04:08 Woah Feb 02 22:04:09 lol Feb 02 22:04:13 LOL Feb 02 22:04:18 I did not know they shared the same place in the body. Feb 02 22:04:19 Weird. Feb 02 22:04:29 premed talk Feb 02 22:04:40 ird: read a paper on it like 4 years ago Feb 02 22:05:03 So basically they could test you for herpes to find out if you smoke dope? At least if they check the nerve bits where herpes hides? Feb 02 22:05:14 lol Feb 02 22:05:27 That's impractical but.. just curious. Feb 02 22:05:59 So we went from talking about your ass to herpes.. Feb 02 22:05:59 what did I just walk into? lol Feb 02 22:06:12 Too much THC... Feb 02 22:06:30 I should go play guitar for a while now. Feb 02 22:06:50 zosc: does it install OpenSSH on the media/internal/cryptofs after 1.3? Feb 02 22:06:57 I could make a joke about fingering Am, but I wont... Feb 02 22:07:34 I refrained about what the total equipment protection might reject too Feb 02 22:07:57 damn Feb 02 22:08:08 dylan songs! Feb 02 22:09:13 Ron001: what seems to be the issue? Feb 02 22:09:15 Ron001: shouldn't. Feb 02 22:09:34 egaudet_work: he has a lack of /opt/bin/ssh-keygen Feb 02 22:09:56 im trying to regain putty access after I Dr'd Feb 02 22:10:08 what steps have you followed Feb 02 22:10:29 I installed OpenSSH via preware, and have been following the wiki in terminal on the pre Feb 02 22:10:40 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:OpenSSH Feb 02 22:10:59 hmm.. kdrive is in official xorg packages now... Feb 02 22:12:18 how about just taking some ibuprophen? Feb 02 22:12:53 and when you run /opt/bin/ssh-keygen you get what exact message Feb 02 22:14:19 -sh: /opt/bin/openssh/ssh-keygen: not found Feb 02 22:14:32 oh that's interesting, heh Feb 02 22:14:37 burrrp Feb 02 22:14:55 nice Feb 02 22:18:23 zsoc: 100% class Feb 02 22:19:34 raster: any thoughts on brief Feb 02 22:19:39 sdl support Feb 02 22:19:42 brief? Feb 02 22:19:44 in xorg/kdrive Feb 02 22:19:52 my enter button attacked me, sorry Feb 02 22:20:06 errrr Feb 02 22:20:17 my thoughts on sdl in geeneral are "meh" Feb 02 22:20:21 lol Feb 02 22:20:28 hooray. 1 window only Feb 02 22:20:32 we'll we're trying to get x working ;) Feb 02 22:20:34 thanks very muchly sdl. Feb 02 22:20:42 albeit backwards Feb 02 22:21:16 Ron001: that is not what the directions say Feb 02 22:21:16 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:OpenSSH Feb 02 22:21:41 oooh x ON TOP of sdl Feb 02 22:23:02 well - it's not do big favors for performance Feb 02 22:23:19 but... luna is already doing no favors Feb 02 22:23:45 app -> tookit -> x11 -> sdl -> luna -> screen Feb 02 22:23:51 raster: maybe we can 'turn off' fb0 temporarily and run with fb1 Feb 02 22:24:05 Quick question. Is there a patch that will let me set roaming and data options? Or will the Sprint Pre automatically do data roamin? Feb 02 22:24:13 the real thing u want to make sure of is that in thos etransitions u have as few copies as possible Feb 02 22:24:32 egaudet-work: ok, but if OpenSSH is indeed installed, I just need to know where it is to run ssh-keygen, right? Feb 02 22:24:55 raster: as I understand it, when it's fullscreen, it's just sdl->fb1 Feb 02 22:24:59 Ron001: follow the directions exactly Feb 02 22:25:03 jdferm: there are a few patches that allow you to set roaming options. Feb 02 22:25:16 It is in /opt/bin/ssh-keygen Feb 02 22:25:18 it doesn't go anywhere else Feb 02 22:25:24 zsoc: technically.. u could just chvt (allocate a nbew vt first) and run x directly there in the fb - omap fb x's are in plenty of good supply Feb 02 22:25:25 :) Feb 02 22:25:42 jdferm: but I think you can already set data roaming options without a patch. Feb 02 22:25:51 jdferm: atleast you can enable/disable it. Feb 02 22:26:46 Ok. I'll try to nab a manual for the phone online tonight then. I got it as a recert from Sprint so it didn't come with any docs. Feb 02 22:26:50 Thanks! Feb 02 22:26:53 raster: er... Luna integration :p Feb 02 22:27:06 egaudet-work: I'll reread it in a bit and get back to you ;) Feb 02 22:27:15 it's like 3 or 4 steps Ron001 Feb 02 22:27:29 you ran /opt/bin/openssh/ssh-keygen but it says to run /opt/bin/ssh-keygen Feb 02 22:28:10 jacques: next scale volunteer: https://twitter.com/GregStevenson Feb 02 22:28:51 zsoc: integration..... pffft! Feb 02 22:28:52 :) Feb 02 22:29:23 lol Feb 02 22:29:31 dual boot :p Feb 02 22:30:02 huh Feb 02 22:30:03 od Feb 02 22:30:05 *odd Feb 02 22:30:09 you know those pandora ads? Feb 02 22:30:20 they don't render so well Feb 02 22:30:39 well I logged the URL for one, since I thought they were 404'ing. well, turns out they're not 404s, they're some sort of video/audio (asf according to firefox) Feb 02 22:31:57 yeah. they probably pull the same audio ads other versions do Feb 02 22:32:30 weird Feb 02 22:32:36 oh wait, can i talk again O_o Feb 02 22:33:21 would you rather not? Feb 02 22:33:46 rwhitby: cool Feb 02 22:33:59 * egaudet_work commute Feb 02 22:34:38 Heh, i thought it was still on auth to talk Feb 02 22:34:51 and for some reason I can't VNC into my home-box, but its obviously not down, cause FuMan is still online O_o Feb 02 22:34:51 heh, in attempting to patch these bad ads, I might actually fix them Feb 02 22:34:52 >.> Feb 02 22:35:07 lul Feb 02 22:35:37 okay so firefox sucks, it was a proper json response not an asf, it was just going plugin crazy. wget saves the day >.> Feb 02 22:35:40 now to see where it's going wrong Feb 02 22:36:04 zsoc: well x on sdl if sdl is already integrated, then that makes some sense Feb 02 22:36:23 raster: I think the sdl single window limit is removed in 1.3 Feb 02 22:36:44 raster: yeah, and kdrive/xorg supported it for a short period of time Feb 02 22:36:53 wtf is MessageDispatcher.... this has to be some non-webos func Feb 02 22:36:59 jacques: ooh? Feb 02 22:37:38 zsoc: u'd have to revive it. but u'd need to jump thu hoops to get glx/egl+x11 to work Feb 02 22:43:09 heh, I just build Xsdl for my laptop and it kinda works Feb 02 22:43:32 jacques: !!! good work (blasternaut) Feb 02 22:43:32 some problem with input :-\ but I can display xclock in it Feb 02 22:43:50 VincentLaw is it getting ready to support palm-messaging that they've been promising since day one? Feb 02 22:44:03 no Feb 02 22:44:08 looks to be just a function in the app Feb 02 22:44:11 I don't think xorg has released an xserver since they removed Xsdl - I just build 1.7.1 Feb 02 22:44:30 jacques: oh good Feb 02 22:44:38 jacques: that'll learn me to grab source off git :) Feb 02 22:44:45 I'm displaying a 320x480x32 window Feb 02 22:45:02 dBsooner, destinal: regarding porting doctors - the meta-doctor allows carrier customisation to be removed to allow it a doctor to work on another device, but I don't think taking one carrier's apps and automatically making them available for use on another carrier would be kosher. Feb 02 22:45:20 egaudet-work: when I run /opt/bin/ssh-keygen, I get the error -sh: /opt/bin/ssh-keygen: not found. I cant get past step 1. Feb 02 22:45:23 ./Xsdl -screen 320x480x32 :1 Feb 02 22:45:41 So you could technically make a verizon pre plus work on Sprint? Feb 02 22:46:18 Abyssul: you can install the OS. cellular modem operation is a whole other ball game that meta-doctor does not go near. Feb 02 22:46:59 dont even bother. unless its gsm trying to get a phone to work on another network i a pointless task Feb 02 22:47:18 even then its posssible to lock the network to only allow apporved handsets work with the sim card Feb 02 22:47:49 (and by approved that means each individual handset not a whole type/model of handset, so 1 at a time) Feb 02 22:47:51 raster: there's a bunch of folks in China that have Sprint phones working on their local network. Feb 02 22:48:20 Similarly, there are shonky folks in the US which will sell you a Cricket carrier ROM (illegally) for $200 Feb 02 22:48:30 dtzWill: I think I need to explicitly set mouse and kbd drivers with the -mouse and -keybd options, but their use is non-obvious Feb 02 22:48:31 rwhh u'd need gsm phones for that... ass in china last i checked it was mostly gsm Feb 02 22:48:44 raster: nope, they're using CDMA sprint phones Feb 02 22:49:10 raster how could they use GSM sprint phones when there aren't any? :p Feb 02 22:49:12 they must have rejigged the imei to mimic their subscribed numbers Feb 02 22:49:20 jacques: in an hour or two i should be able to dive into this with you Feb 02 22:49:21 raster: yep Feb 02 22:49:43 which is close to illegal if not illegal in many countries Feb 02 22:49:48 raster: yep Feb 02 22:49:50 dtzWill: I need 4 hours :( brief me when I get back :) Feb 02 22:50:03 raster: which is why webos-internals doesn't go near it Feb 02 22:50:10 zsoc: if we get something, sure. :) Feb 02 22:50:20 dtzWill: cool, in about two hours I should be at my friends' house and have a few hours to work on this Feb 02 22:50:24 rwhitby: how do they have a cricket ROM and how has it not leaked yet? Feb 02 22:50:31 zsoc: although maybe jacques will have it all figurd out by then :) Feb 02 22:50:32 jacques: kk Feb 02 22:50:45 ird: well gsm pre's exist... which is why i said that - not gsm sprrint models... Feb 02 22:50:52 chron_: even if I knew, I wouldn't be stating it in this channel Feb 02 22:50:58 raster: ah, I misunderstood you then. Feb 02 22:51:02 rwhitby: good call. Feb 02 22:51:35 cricket rom? Feb 02 22:51:39 so you can use the meta-doctor to get Palm stuff onto any device, but meta-doctor is not going to futz with the cellular settings for you Feb 02 22:51:45 * rwhitby bbl Feb 02 22:52:21 rwhitby: its one thing unlocking simlocked phones. as sim cards are very much replacable and the simlocks are designed to enforce contract obligations technically - not to mention many countires force telcos to unlock phones on request once contracts are up Feb 02 22:52:36 but... imei is a totally different game Feb 02 22:53:37 rwhitby: I don't have cricket, nor do i know anything besides the fact that its the name of a carrier here in the us Feb 02 22:53:47 i was just curious as to why there are Pre ROMs for it Feb 02 22:53:53 since pre is just on verizon and sprint Feb 02 22:53:55 i thought Feb 02 22:54:00 maybe i'm wrong, if so my bad Feb 02 22:59:15 chron_: they're most likely hacked roms. Feb 02 22:59:26 that's what google leads me to believe at least. Feb 02 22:59:35 raster, Verizon has always been quite good about being willing to activate a sprint phone on their network when you buy a contract. Sprint has always been really creepy about that, but can be talked into it some times if you speak to the right tech. Feb 02 22:59:47 ah ok Feb 02 23:00:10 since the networks are technically compatible, the only issue is their willingness to do so. (sprint phones automatically roam on Verizon networks when no sprint tower is in range) Feb 02 23:00:53 the Chinese cdma carriers similarly will activate essentially anything their handed that is band and software compatible. Feb 02 23:01:20 the folks selling cricket roms I make no comment about beyond that everything they were doing looked unlawful to me. Feb 02 23:02:55 I wish phones were more like computers. Feb 02 23:03:40 Where if I get a computer from Dell, it's not locked down to just Dell software or say if Dell had their own data service or something. Feb 02 23:03:44 More open, I guess. Feb 02 23:04:09 That's a crappy analogy though. Feb 02 23:04:53 http://www.slashgear.com/texas-instruments-omap4-hands-on-0172231/ - nice OMAP4 article if anyone is interested ... very cool chip Feb 02 23:08:47 destinal: remove the 'register to speak' blag? y/n? Feb 02 23:09:48 zsoc: yeah since it's not necessary and also the ircd-seven migration totally cut important pieces off the end of topic. I'll get it Feb 02 23:10:07 :> Feb 02 23:10:47 +o? someone is about to get banned? Feb 02 23:10:57 lol Feb 02 23:11:00 no Feb 02 23:11:04 he's just makin me jealous Feb 02 23:11:08 topic change Feb 02 23:11:08 oh Feb 02 23:11:17 * oilsworkn makes himself ops also when he figures out the command Feb 02 23:11:33 oilsworkn: unless you are on the naughty list like me Feb 02 23:11:37 and can't op yourself. Feb 02 23:11:43 if i wanted to ban someone, id have to look up the command Feb 02 23:11:57 dBsooner: im pretty sure i made myself ops before Feb 02 23:11:59 to ban that one guy Feb 02 23:12:04 rwhitby has yet to tell me if I can be ops or not. Feb 02 23:12:14 if you got a + you can grab ops Feb 02 23:12:25 Rick_work: not true Feb 02 23:12:29 not true Feb 02 23:12:33 in this channel it is.... Feb 02 23:12:38 (5:12:29 PM) ChanServ: (notice) You are not authorized to perform this operation. Feb 02 23:12:41 not true Feb 02 23:12:44 huh Feb 02 23:12:45 ^^ Feb 02 23:12:47 ok Feb 02 23:12:47 Rick_work: check the list, there are some people who have +v but not +o Feb 02 23:12:54 ahhhh Feb 02 23:13:07 destinal: no more webos-patches.dbsooner.com? Feb 02 23:13:12 poor dbsooner Feb 02 23:13:23 or maybe rwhitby can make an alias: patches.webos-internals.org Feb 02 23:13:40 oilsworkn: quit teasin me. Rod won't talk to me about the topic. ;) Feb 02 23:14:32 sorry Feb 02 23:15:00 rwhitby: what do you think of the URL alias for the WebOS-Patches Web Portal? Feb 02 23:15:01 dBsooner: cool? Feb 02 23:15:12 destinal: No. Feb 02 23:15:12 less politic talk in channel plz Feb 02 23:15:45 dBsooner: err? what's wrong Feb 02 23:16:04 destinal: nothing, just being difficult. Feb 02 23:16:12 dBsooner: I can take it back off... :P Feb 02 23:16:16 fine Feb 02 23:16:22 I am going to boycott anywayt. Feb 02 23:16:36 cuz rwhitby ignores me all the time. Especially on non-important issues. Feb 02 23:16:49 dBsooner: rwhitby != webos-internals Feb 02 23:16:58 dBsooner: that assumes that rwhitby is here Feb 02 23:17:15 Lumiere: rwhitby is always here.. show me a day when "rwhitby" wasn't in the channel. Feb 02 23:17:16 dBsooner: one person does not the whole team make. lots of people listen to you Feb 02 23:17:23 or "nslu2-log" wasn't in here. Feb 02 23:17:43 Ok, I'll rephrase my question then: Feb 02 23:17:58 webos-internals: What do you all think of a URL alias for the Patches Portal? Feb 02 23:18:09 semilar to how we do install.preware.org Feb 02 23:18:45 * oilsworkn has no problem with it, not that i could make it happen or anything Feb 02 23:18:45 and rwhitby >= webos-internals Feb 02 23:18:45 ;) Feb 02 23:19:01 dBsooner: sounds decent, like patches.preware.org or patches.webos-internals.org ? I think we've talked about it and we've been pretty open to delegating a zone before Feb 02 23:19:09 and I totally spelled similar wrong Feb 02 23:19:21 for a similar thing Feb 02 23:19:48 It doesn't matter which domain it's off of. I figured it can just be an alias. It can even be a masking alias if you want. Feb 02 23:21:09 i Just thought it could make it more official. Feb 02 23:21:23 I guess it would be purely cosmetic. Feb 02 23:21:41 but would show it's truly a WOSI project. Feb 02 23:21:42 it would be prettier in the topic :) Feb 02 23:21:50 Aye Feb 02 23:21:55 dbsooner != pretty Feb 02 23:22:09 dBsooner: heh, it would match the other stuff I mean Feb 02 23:22:15 * oilsworkn makes himself op to replace dbsooner link with a bitly Feb 02 23:22:23 :) Feb 02 23:22:37 rofl.. that was two birds with one stone Feb 02 23:22:41 nice I tell you Feb 02 23:23:03 Yeah. I'm for patch mask Feb 02 23:23:38 oh zsoc Feb 02 23:23:39 ping Feb 02 23:23:40 LOL Feb 02 23:23:45 on the topic of cosmetic niceties, we should get a freenode project cloak :) Feb 02 23:23:53 Does anyone have the link to webosdoctor 1.0.3? Feb 02 23:24:07 dtz: we requested one awhile ago Feb 02 23:24:20 dtz: : we requested that like a year ago Feb 02 23:24:25 j/k.. more like months ago Feb 02 23:24:32 I got tired of waiting and just got my own Feb 02 23:24:58 what is a project cloak? Feb 02 23:25:13 Rick_work: whois rod and see his Feb 02 23:25:25 dBsooner: whats the status on new patches being added to the feed? Feb 02 23:25:40 xenoph0be: slow Feb 02 23:25:43 fun Feb 02 23:25:52 xenoph0be: waiting on egaudet to push a fix to aupt Feb 02 23:26:06 but I guess I can go ahead and add the stuff. Feb 02 23:26:09 i'll do it tonight Feb 02 23:26:20 gotcha.. so i assume thats why they've not been updated in a while... have you reviewed mine Feb 02 23:26:20 ? Feb 02 23:26:23 zsoc: it is a zsoc/webos-internals hostname Feb 02 23:26:48 uh, I don't see how rwhitby's whois is essentially any different than mine? Feb 02 23:26:55 xenoph0be: to be honest, I haven't reviewed any new ones in a couple days. Feb 02 23:26:58 hehe Feb 02 23:27:20 no worries... thanks for the update Feb 02 23:27:20 rick-home: his hostmask is nsl2u-linux instead of unaffiliated Feb 02 23:27:21 xenoph0be: I am in the process of upgrading my server cluster of one of my dedicated hosts to Server 2008 R2 Feb 02 23:27:28 ouch Feb 02 23:27:31 which IS NOT FUN when its an Exchange cluster as well. Feb 02 23:27:32 ick Feb 02 23:27:41 zsoc: so getting a webos-intrnals is what a project cloak is Feb 02 23:27:47 sp-- Feb 02 23:27:50 a lot of sleepless nights Feb 02 23:27:54 no doubt Feb 02 23:27:58 Lumiere: yes? Feb 02 23:28:10 yippee!!! wosqi no more tweaks, uses aupt patches!! YIPPEE Feb 02 23:28:23 FINALLY! Feb 02 23:28:26 rick-home: does it work? :> Feb 02 23:28:26 GO JASON! Feb 02 23:28:35 zsoc: webos-internals/zsoc (and rwhitby can be nslu2-linux/webos-internals/rwhitby? Feb 02 23:28:36 3,0 out and public and yes Feb 02 23:28:45 so does that mean his binary patches are gone? Feb 02 23:28:47 yep Feb 02 23:28:55 and the stuff not in preware? Feb 02 23:29:00 yep Feb 02 23:29:01 Lumiere: we'll you can't have two :p Feb 02 23:29:10 http://forums.precentral.net/canuck-software/228310-webos-quick-install-v3-01-a.html Feb 02 23:29:12 My life just got 10 fold easier. Feb 02 23:29:16 lol Feb 02 23:29:41 - added support for AUPT Feb 02 23:29:42 - added update checker Feb 02 23:29:42 - fixed issue where patch settings were saved to a wrong directory Feb 02 23:29:42 - added patch updating on Online Repository tab Feb 02 23:29:42 - fixed "This is a webOS application." nametags in Device Management Feb 02 23:29:42 - added dynamic webOSDoctor downloader Feb 02 23:29:42 - fixed issue preventing webOSDoctor jar detection Feb 02 23:29:52 I guess that means Jason will be sure to submit all his pathes from now on Feb 02 23:29:54 Woot! Feb 02 23:30:20 he still CALLS them tweaks, but they aren't Feb 02 23:30:49 hehe... im a tweaker with wosqi Feb 02 23:30:52 * oilsworkn submits patch that renames patch tweaks in preware Feb 02 23:31:09 Rick_work: I don't see anything that says he removed "tweaks" as a format :) Feb 02 23:31:10 does it support depends in ipkg yet? Feb 02 23:31:21 i dont think so Feb 02 23:31:27 bahh Feb 02 23:31:32 dBsooner: where should patches.webos-internals.org point to? Feb 02 23:31:37 i haven't personally tried Feb 02 23:31:46 Lumiere http://forums.precentral.net/canuck-software/228310-webos-quick-install-v3-01-a.html#post2194984 Feb 02 23:31:47 dBsooner: it lives ;) Feb 02 23:31:49 i think i saw egaudet say last night that it didnt Feb 02 23:32:06 rwhitby: webos-patches.dbsooner.com Feb 02 23:32:06 no depends Feb 02 23:32:08 Lumiere: it's at work in GMT+10:30 timezone Feb 02 23:32:15 or do you want an IP? :) Feb 02 23:32:32 and I'll add it as a hostmask to the apache conf Feb 02 23:32:42 Lumiere from that post: "All tweaks are compatible and interoperable between WebOS Quick Install and Preware." Feb 02 23:33:03 Rick_work: I am just wondering about that .patch section Feb 02 23:33:37 rwhitby: besides jason who else do we need to talk with to get a Hidden: (TRUE|FALSE, 1|0) type of filed in the ipkg spec Feb 02 23:33:49 Finally! Exchange cluster installed. Now tonight I can hopefully migrate the mailboxes. :( I am so tired. Feb 02 23:35:41 so rwhitby: You can either point it to an IP and I'll add patches.webos-internals.org to the apache's hostmask on that virt server on my server, OR you can just URL redirect to webos-patches.dbsooner.com. You're choice. Feb 02 23:35:54 I'll CNAME it Feb 02 23:36:17 ok Feb 02 23:36:33 Canonical it is Feb 02 23:36:48 PuffTheMagic: since ignoring the flag won't change the installation outcome, I think we can just add it and notify. Feb 02 23:37:11 sweet Feb 02 23:37:27 rwhitby:didnt think you would say something like that Feb 02 23:37:48 lol Feb 02 23:37:56 hidden was added to the spec? Feb 02 23:38:21 oilsworkn: i've wanted it added Feb 02 23:38:26 im asking for it to be added Feb 02 23:38:28 oilsworkn: I expect PuffTheMagic will propose it on the standards page, and we'll notify the stakeholders in parallel with implementing it. Feb 02 23:38:34 for what purpose? Feb 02 23:38:45 rwhitby: its been on the wiki for a while Feb 02 23:38:51 i mean, what are you wanting to hide? Feb 02 23:38:52 oilsworkn: if true dont show the package in preware Feb 02 23:39:03 useful Feb 02 23:39:05 oilsworkn: you can make it an option too Feb 02 23:39:06 nodnod Feb 02 23:39:08 i know that Feb 02 23:39:13 very useful Feb 02 23:39:13 im just wondering what package you have in mind Feb 02 23:39:15 (don't show in available, but always show in installed) Feb 02 23:39:21 heh, i didn't think the iphone user agent was a Preware patch Feb 02 23:39:27 but its still in WOSQI Feb 02 23:39:50 oilsworkn: for like terminus which is sorta broken, for the EFL libraries that no one needs to see Feb 02 23:39:51 well, if it was me, I would no-show terminal service.... Feb 02 23:40:00 oilsworkn: most deps for new SDL apps and plugins Feb 02 23:40:11 oilsworkn: I was assuming the wiki page would give the answers to the questions you are asking ;-) Feb 02 23:40:12 oilsworkn: sorta like how services are hidden Feb 02 23:40:23 oil, you are the same oil that dropped that Xbox Live friends app early on were you? Feb 02 23:40:33 yeah Feb 02 23:40:45 you aren't, rather, is what i meant to type Feb 02 23:40:55 PuffTheMagic: services aren't hidden Feb 02 23:41:00 FuManNoAuth: but i am that same guy Feb 02 23:41:02 i thought theywere Feb 02 23:41:04 Why did you never throw that into the app cat? Feb 02 23:41:08 oilsworkn: they could be ;) Feb 02 23:41:12 PuffTheMagic: nope, services are there. Feb 02 23:41:21 FuManNoAuth: server power Feb 02 23:41:25 i think 90 percent of the pre users i know, love it :) Feb 02 23:41:35 ah, no official access through ms? Feb 02 23:41:46 my crappy server wouldn't be able to handle catalog-level number of users Feb 02 23:41:51 its official through ms Feb 02 23:41:56 but i can't reveal the location of the feed Feb 02 23:41:58 hidden should not show in installed either IMO Feb 02 23:42:00 so i have to go through my server Feb 02 23:42:12 ah, lame but understandable Feb 02 23:42:19 oilsworkn: i have a new server going in my office Feb 02 23:42:32 OMAP4. want. Feb 02 23:42:35 idk what the bw is like though Feb 02 23:42:38 well, its handy as hell, ever thought about putting a bit more into it? Feb 02 23:42:39 egaudet: so how will people answer the question "do you have Package Manager Service installed" ? Feb 02 23:42:43 releasing it in the catalog is a lost cause Feb 02 23:42:52 due to using microsofts feeds, i can't charge for the app Feb 02 23:43:02 so it would always be a waste of money on servers Feb 02 23:43:48 Well, Cheers on it regardless Feb 02 23:43:57 oil: admin? Feb 02 23:44:02 er... Feb 02 23:44:10 oilsworkn: admob? Feb 02 23:44:11 one of the older gems of homebrew Feb 02 23:44:17 i hate ads, so, no Feb 02 23:44:18 lol Feb 02 23:44:26 * dBsooner hates ads too Feb 02 23:44:34 zsoc, is there really a dime to be made in those admod ads? Feb 02 23:44:35 FuManNoAuth: yeah, that was the first app i wrote, i plan to rewrite it to make it more better Feb 02 23:44:39 but haven't had time Feb 02 23:44:43 I had a program the other day.. a game.. give me an adult rated ad Feb 02 23:44:46 oilsworkn: only the cat version. if you can install homebrew, you get ad free ;) Feb 02 23:44:51 FuManNoAuth: yes Feb 02 23:44:56 I was like.. wow.. what if my kid were playing this game. Feb 02 23:45:11 zsoc, heh Feb 02 23:45:16 oilsworkn: "more better" Feb 02 23:45:17 dBsooner: thats precisely why I don't have kids Feb 02 23:45:26 yes, more better Feb 02 23:45:38 oil, well, I'll be waiting... if you could ever actually login and have all your friends / message, that would be clutch as hell Feb 02 23:45:46 but again, i have no idea what kinda api live friends has Feb 02 23:45:57 infobot: better is something you want more of, capice? Feb 02 23:46:00 ...but better is already something else... Feb 02 23:46:06 whA? Feb 02 23:46:06 its not possible Feb 02 23:46:10 they don't have any of that Feb 02 23:46:14 I figured so Feb 02 23:46:14 ~better Feb 02 23:46:16 somebody said better was a matter of personal taste; asking "is foo better than bar?" is almost meaningless unless we know what *you* mean by "better". Feb 02 23:46:31 thats dumb Feb 02 23:46:53 infobot: no, better is not always the best route. Feb 02 23:46:53 dBsooner: what's the 1 liner command for replace? Feb 02 23:46:54 dBsooner: okay Feb 02 23:46:59 ah, 'no' lol Feb 02 23:47:25 conversational syntax ftw Feb 02 23:47:48 just for giggles.. i wonder if he knows ftw Feb 02 23:47:51 ~ftw Feb 02 23:47:52 For The Win! Feb 02 23:47:57 AWESOME! Feb 02 23:48:12 ~asl Feb 02 23:48:13 Old enough, yes please, my place. Feb 02 23:48:19 nice Feb 02 23:48:19 HA! Feb 02 23:48:35 We have an X rated bot. Feb 02 23:49:05 i'm in Feb 02 23:49:19 in? Feb 02 23:49:36 ;) Feb 02 23:50:31 Mousey: that's what I said to your mom last night when she asked.. Feb 02 23:50:40 Sorry, had to. Feb 02 23:50:59 * dBsooner remembers "your mom" jokes.. snare, snare crash. Feb 02 23:51:19 what, she couldn't tell? Feb 02 23:51:32 even better! Feb 02 23:51:44 * Rick_work going home - night all. Feb 02 23:51:51 wait rick Feb 02 23:51:55 hows the book thing going? Feb 02 23:51:56 waiting Feb 02 23:52:00 pm Feb 02 23:52:26 ~excuse Feb 02 23:52:27 hmm... excuse is http://www.randomexcuse.com/ Feb 02 23:53:30 ~joke Feb 02 23:53:31 A bhuddist monk goes to a hot dog vendor and says "Make me one with everything!" Feb 02 23:54:43 ~joke Feb 02 23:54:44 What's a chicken coupe with 4 doors - a Chicken Sedan! Feb 02 23:56:12 btw... can someone write the equivalent of adblock Feb 02 23:56:28 as a patch? :) Feb 02 23:56:49 or am I just an ass to suggest it Feb 02 23:56:50 maybe we can get a nice port of MicroB? Feb 02 23:57:18 I'm checking through the WOI site, we don't have a section for documenting service calls? Feb 02 23:57:22 i.e. to the browser or any other apps? Feb 02 23:59:10 ping egaudet Feb 03 00:12:14 what, i just quit? Feb 03 00:12:49 u lose power at home? Feb 03 00:13:04 idk, im not there Feb 03 00:13:20 but you logged off from there? Feb 03 00:13:41 maybe the internet just hiccupped Feb 03 00:13:46 oil_ is here now Feb 03 00:13:48 lol Feb 03 00:14:32 I know my house power is out when my vonage forwards my home calls to my cell Feb 03 00:15:56 AnOutsider: just create one :-) Feb 03 00:16:07 create a whole wiki? Feb 03 00:16:16 a page in the wiki covering what you want Feb 03 00:16:22 oh, and fill it with information Feb 03 00:16:28 I just wanted to add some info, dont know if anyone jotted down the param to open amazon store and searcg Feb 03 00:17:05 rwhitby, package manager service doesn't have to set the hidden flag and there should be an option in preware to display hidden Feb 03 00:17:46 * oilsworkn will never understand the will to hide things Feb 03 00:18:16 Ron001, pong Feb 03 00:18:34 oilsworkn, the average user doesn't need to know/care about certain things Feb 03 00:19:16 just because they don't need to, doesn't mean it should be hidden from them unless they flip on some option Feb 03 00:19:18 egaudet: was traffic ok? :) So, when I run /opt/bin/ssh-keygen, I get the error -sh: /opt/bin/ssh-keygen: not found. I cant get past step 1. Feb 03 00:19:41 oilsworkn, why not? if a package can never be used by them directly why on earth not hide it? Feb 03 00:20:12 Ron001, try to reboot phone Feb 03 00:20:31 ok Feb 03 00:20:36 Ron001: which openssh package do you have installed? Feb 03 00:20:46 the one from preware Feb 03 00:20:53 (in preware, what is listed as the package id for the package you have installed) Feb 03 00:21:33 5.3.1-3 Feb 03 00:22:00 oh, you mean mobi.optware.openssh Feb 03 00:22:54 ok, good. Feb 03 00:23:00 Ron001: do you have command line access on the Pre? Feb 03 00:23:14 yes, thats where I'm getting the error. Feb 03 00:23:35 Ron001: ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps files mobi.optware.openssh Feb 03 00:23:51 Ron001: is ssh-keygen in the list returned by that command? Feb 03 00:25:09 rwhitby, I think I've seen the problem before I vaguely remember Feb 03 00:25:22 yes Feb 03 00:26:21 last time had to phone reboot due to odd mounting/service issue IIRC Feb 03 00:26:34 Has anyone played with PmIpcDispatch? you can do lots of fun stuff, like call all of the "tel." IPCs from TelephonyInterfaceLayerCdma Feb 03 00:26:58 I'll reboot and see if it works Feb 03 00:29:27 trying to see if there is a better signal strength metric in there Feb 03 00:29:29 somewhere Feb 03 00:30:00 well im going home Feb 03 00:32:23 schulman: can you document what you find on a wiki page please? Feb 03 00:32:29 yeah Feb 03 00:32:40 I hope this is not getting into any sketchyness with the TIL Feb 03 00:32:52 weird people out there trying to unlock their phones and such Feb 03 00:33:25 I still get a file not found error Feb 03 00:36:38 schulman: info on the TIL executable public interface is fine. Feb 03 00:37:03 Ron001: what's the output of "ls -l /opt/bin/ssh-keygen" ? Feb 03 00:37:12 I mean, I am seeing what calls exist by looking at strings of TelephonyInterfaceLayer Feb 03 00:37:14 not sure how public that is Feb 03 00:37:16 but yeah Feb 03 00:37:47 no such file or directory Feb 03 00:38:04 as long as you don't start binary patching that exe to do stuff, then you're just documenting the interface that Palm provides. Feb 03 00:38:12 Ron001: reinstall the openssh package Feb 03 00:38:51 I did once, but I'll do it again. I don't need to reboot between or anything, right? Feb 03 00:39:05 right Feb 03 00:39:44 sounds resonable Feb 03 00:40:09 yeah they are fun Feb 03 00:40:26 rwhitby: does openssh have any dependancies? Feb 03 00:40:55 PmIpcDispatch phone tel.dial s=5551231414 s=5551231414 makes the phone call that number Feb 03 00:40:56 for example Feb 03 00:40:57 kinda fun Feb 03 00:41:04 oh you need a -o s at the end too Feb 03 00:42:15 Ron001: yes, but keygen should just be in the mobi.optware.openssh package Feb 03 00:42:45 schulman: have you found how to send/receive a SMS ? I would love to know that Feb 03 00:42:47 Ron001: I'm assuming you're using Preware to do the installs. Feb 03 00:43:23 maybe the postinst didn't run Feb 03 00:43:36 rwhitby: yes. and I asked because I Dr'd my pre monday, but didn't know to wipe it first, so Preware thought I had stuff installed that I didn't Feb 03 00:43:58 schulman: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/PmIpcDispatch Feb 03 00:44:49 * rwhitby notes the palmcast starts in 15 mins Feb 03 00:44:51 rwhitby: "ls -l /opt/bin/ssh-keygen" still gives "file not found" Feb 03 00:45:05 jacques, let me see Feb 03 00:45:10 Ron001: what does "mount | grep opt" say ? Feb 03 00:45:33 how do I type | Feb 03 00:46:30 perhaps I can hold the phone in landscape and type _ Feb 03 00:50:40 lol Feb 03 00:50:40 Ron001: it's on the symbol popup Feb 03 00:50:57 I think it's orange+. in terminal Feb 03 00:51:59 orange-. Feb 03 00:52:04 =| Feb 03 00:52:27 got it. and there was no output Feb 03 00:52:36 did it wrong Feb 03 00:52:50 maybe you're using a different terminal program? Feb 03 00:52:53 Ron001: sounds like org.webosinternals.optware is not installed Feb 03 00:54:34 jacques, it looks like the sms call requires more parameters then you can enter into that Ipc dispatcher Feb 03 00:54:38 bootstrap? Feb 03 00:54:55 jacques, it complains and says, too many parameters Feb 03 00:55:07 schulman: interresting... Feb 03 00:55:19 but, if you know how to send these palm IPCs without the little Dispatcher tool Feb 03 00:55:27 which I am sure an strace of the dispatcher tool would tell you Feb 03 00:55:30 you would be in shape Feb 03 00:55:34 I *really* want to be able to send/receive SMS programmatically Feb 03 00:56:03 jacques_, what is stopping you? Feb 03 00:56:09 maybe I should just look at the messaging app ... Feb 03 00:56:14 jacques_: where'd you get with the x stuff? Feb 03 00:56:20 egaudet: I don't know how :-) Feb 03 00:56:43 egaudet: I haven't seen it documented anywhere Feb 03 00:56:46 I would guess there are luna IPCs for sendingsms Feb 03 00:57:21 where have precentral been? Feb 03 00:57:25 dtz: I am just about to leave work - will be back on in maybe 30 minutes ? Feb 03 00:58:17 dtz: main problems are 1) I haven't been able to get mouse nor keyboard input to work 2) sometimes Xsdl crashes, but this may be because I was doing weird stuff Feb 03 00:59:36 jacques_: but does it run on the pre? or this pc testing for now? Feb 03 00:59:42 dtz: as a test, I also built Xephyr and mouse works fine with it - it might be as simple as comparing the two, tho I don't yet fully understand how the SDL input is intended to integrate with the "X stuff" in Xsdl Feb 03 00:59:58 dtz: haven't tried anything on Pre yet Feb 03 01:00:15 I would be happy to get input working on my laptop at this point Feb 03 01:00:52 I suspect there may be a few deps when we try building for the Pre Feb 03 01:01:26 I did --disable just about everything I could in my last build tho and that took the deps down - also I think most of the deps are because SDL on my laptop is built to run under X Feb 03 01:01:40 rwhitby: ok, optware was not installed. It was something else Preware thought was, but wasn't becasue I didn't wipe the phone before Dr'ing it. I think I have reinstalled ALL the services now, and keygen is working. :) Feb 03 01:02:19 Ron001: cool Feb 03 01:02:44 ahhh, now the light goes off Feb 03 01:02:52 damn doctor messing things up Feb 03 01:03:22 dtz: anyway, I'll be back on in about 30 minutes Feb 03 01:03:37 :/ Feb 03 01:03:44 what are you guys doing now :p Feb 03 01:04:14 thanks everyone. I'm heading home now. Feb 03 01:08:59 dbsooner: ping Feb 03 01:09:22 Ping? Pong! Feb 03 01:42:44 what did I miss? oops, dinnertime! :-D Feb 03 01:46:21 schulman: thx Feb 03 01:46:30 rwhitby: getting there Feb 03 01:56:19 jacques: we got a scale volunteer shout out on the palmcast Feb 03 01:58:10 rwhitby: where do I put the link to PmIpcDispatch? Feb 03 01:59:03 rwhitby: scale? Feb 03 02:00:56 schulman: research portal Feb 03 02:01:01 destinal-pre: http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale8x/ Feb 03 02:01:10 sucks Feb 03 02:01:15 destinal-pre: we have a booth Feb 03 02:01:22 no palmcast Feb 03 02:01:32 in the dotOrg pavilion Feb 03 02:01:36 on pre Feb 03 02:01:49 rwhitby: cool Feb 03 02:15:54 I need help with preware pls Feb 03 02:18:05 applover: more specificity is needed Feb 03 02:18:32 ~smart-questions Feb 03 02:18:33 [smart-questions] http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html Feb 03 02:24:29 rwhitby: good faq/guide. somehow I'd never seen it before Feb 03 02:24:30 everyone watching LOST? Feb 03 02:27:25 not watching lost... its better without commercials Feb 03 02:28:19 yeah iDVRing it Feb 03 02:29:25 i like to wait until i've got several episodes Feb 03 02:29:37 so when the cliff hanger hits... i fire up the next ep Feb 03 02:29:59 lol Feb 03 02:30:06 u cantdo that for the first episode Feb 03 02:30:36 rwhitby, nice! Feb 03 02:35:20 fun fun Feb 03 02:37:04 so, how do i enabled the preware alpha feed? Feb 03 02:37:38 oh, nvm, figured it out Feb 03 02:49:46 woohoo, freetether and other stuff Feb 03 02:54:27 Who maintains infobot? Feb 03 02:55:08 tim riker Feb 03 02:55:13 infobot: info Feb 03 02:55:18 ~about Feb 03 02:55:19 http://www.infobot.org/ - /msg infobot help for a list of commands - http://www.infobot.org/guide-0.43.x.html for a guide Feb 03 02:55:25 ~owner Feb 03 02:55:27 TimRiker is my owner Feb 03 02:55:33 rwhitby: http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale8x/exhibitors <-- where's webos-internals? :D Feb 03 02:55:40 gkatsev: thank you :) Feb 03 02:55:57 zsoc, in the text at the bottom Feb 03 02:56:04 http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale8x/exhibitor/webos-internals Feb 03 02:56:16 bpadalino: ah, apparently I can't spell Feb 03 02:56:23 either that or I don't understand the idea of "alphabetical order" Feb 03 02:56:45 :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Feb 03 02:59:56 2010