**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 09 02:59:56 2010
Feb 09 03:00:42 <zonyl> zsoc: I was trying to figure out a good way to call the program as an icon first.  Right now its only /bin/sh friendly and those already know the rest ;)
Feb 09 03:01:39 <zsoc> zonyl: i suppose you're right. it will involve a nice sdl front end.. or super mojo hack
Feb 09 03:02:27 <zsoc> zonyl: visualboyadvance has a nice 'rom picker' which you could use the basics of to put together something for your app...
Feb 09 03:02:41 <zsoc> raster: so is 'bada' like some big secret? there's very limited info around... just some screenshots
Feb 09 03:03:29 <jacques> why not a general file browser which lets the user run any app?
Feb 09 03:03:42 <zsoc> jacques: that's not really user friendly
Feb 09 03:03:56 <zsoc> besides, the vnc app will need a special front end to pick options i'm sure
Feb 09 03:04:00 <zonyl> zsoc: Exactly what I was thinking.  I need the same selector to select stored connection profiles, so make it easy to click and go.
Feb 09 03:04:35 <jacques> it's friendlier than terminal for just running apps
Feb 09 03:05:05 <zsoc> jacques: but "just running apps" is really an inbetween... not advanced nor user friendly
Feb 09 03:05:37 <zonyl> jacques: Not a bad idea.  I like that.  I seem to remeber another embedded device doing something similar (winmo or something) that would pop open a dialog for command line parameters.
Feb 09 03:05:46 <jacques> yep
Feb 09 03:06:03 <jacques> like the "run" thing in windows
Feb 09 03:06:37 <zonyl> Yah. I think my old Epod (windows/CE) did that.
Feb 09 03:07:03 <jacques> I think my old ipaq 3650 did too :-)
Feb 09 03:07:25 <jacques> tho it didn't keep pocketpc/wince/windows mobile on it for long
Feb 09 03:08:17 <zonyl> jacques: hehe. I have a bunch of ipaq's around the house as early "Airports" running FPE? linux and the esd daemon for whole house audio.
Feb 09 03:09:05 <gaffo_home> zosc, I thought the eventual PDK would let you do bindings from JS to native, so you could do the management in normal webos and the vnc in native plugin?
Feb 09 03:09:54 <zonyl> gaffo_home: Thats what I read.  I started down that route actually a while ago, but just blitzing the screen was so much easier.
Feb 09 03:10:33 <gaffo_home> zonyl, that definitely makes sense for the moment.
Feb 09 03:10:42 <zonyl> gaffo_home: I still have my experiment native plugin that behaved like their other native apps do.
Feb 09 03:11:16 <gaffo_home> zonyl, cool. I'd love to have a vnc app :)
Feb 09 03:12:57 <zonyl> gaffo_home: I put out the compiled binary on precentral.
Feb 09 03:13:48 <gaffo_home> zonyl, but you have to launch via terminal I'm guessing?
Feb 09 03:14:43 <zonyl> gaffo_home: yah.. Im working on that next.  Now that the program is useful, Im starting to work on how to get it to launch quickly when I am in meetings ;)
Feb 09 03:16:00 <gaffo_home> zonyl, so that you can ignore the meeting ? :)
Feb 09 03:16:35 <zonyl> gaffo_home: hehe. sort of.  Its is strange how often I find I need to query a MSSQL database in the middle of a meeting.
Feb 09 03:17:10 <gaffo_home> I was about to say why not use ssh for that then I re-read. :) feels sorry for you :)
Feb 09 03:17:48 <zonyl> "Users never use that feature."  <query> "Ah, yes they do"
Feb 09 03:19:20 <zsoc> zonyl: from that small about of information, your job is 2145 times more interesting than mine
Feb 09 03:20:51 <zonyl> zsoc: Cant complain really.   Writing this sdl client on the pre has reminded me how much I miss developing professionally though.
Feb 09 03:21:26 <gaffo_home> zonyl, :)
Feb 09 03:22:02 <gaffo_home> so thinking about glxgears I'm guessing I'll have issues with glut? (open question)
Feb 09 03:22:26 <zsoc> gaffo_home: yes, the whole lack of glut support would be a big glut issue
Feb 09 03:22:34 <zonyl> hehe
Feb 09 03:23:09 <zsoc> gaffo_home: in general, i'm unsure about gl extensions. The first step would be figuring out if the extension you're looking at is compatible with gles, and then stage it with the widk
Feb 09 03:23:54 <zonyl> I am surprised at how much faster the sdlvnc client runs on the pre than on my Pentium M 2Ghz laptop though.  Not sure why that is, but I am guessing the Cortex is just that cool.
Feb 09 03:24:01 <dtzWill> zonyl: if you _do_ use the selector feel free to hit me up with any questions.  I feel bad, it wasn't meant to last this long :)
Feb 09 03:24:08 <zsoc> zonyl: not really in my experience, but that's great to hear :)
Feb 09 03:24:35 <zonyl> zsoc: Maybe the i915 driver just sucks that bad.
Feb 09 03:24:46 <zsoc> zonyl: that sounds more like it :)
Feb 09 03:25:02 <jacques> gaffo_home: there is no GLUT lib on the Pre. if you want to use it, you would have to add one
Feb 09 03:25:25 <gaffo_home> zosc, gles? that's extensions for opengl? or the mobile opengl ?
Feb 09 03:25:38 <zonyl> zsoc: I developed it all on my laptop speeding up where I could and thought the paning would just be too damn slow.   I ported it to the pre and it worked better?  Go figure.
Feb 09 03:26:11 <zsoc> gaffo_home: no such thing as "mobile opengl", it's referred to as opengl es (or gles), but i suppose yes that's the idea
Feb 09 03:26:23 <zsoc> gaffo_home: and i believe there's a "glut|es" as well
Feb 09 03:26:27 <jacques> I think the E stands for embedded
Feb 09 03:26:43 <zonyl> dtzWill: Thanks for the offer. I will definitely be checking that out this weekend.
Feb 09 03:27:15 <zsoc> zonyl: maybe you just naturally optimize for arm :P
Feb 09 03:27:22 <dtzWill> zonyl: sure thing.
Feb 09 03:27:26 <zsoc> jacques: yes indeed :P
Feb 09 03:27:34 <dtzWill> wasn't someone working on glues? I thought they staged it or something?
Feb 09 03:27:42 <zsoc> gaffo_home: sorry, i didn't mean for that to sound condescending, just trying to be concise in my answer
Feb 09 03:27:55 <zonyl> zsoc: I am beginning to wonder if it is time for a new laptop.
Feb 09 03:28:01 <dtzWill> guess not, idk what happened to that
Feb 09 03:28:35 <gaffo_home> zsoc, it didn't, you sounded precise. Jacques sounded informed :) you're answering me and not calling me stupid, that's good manners for most irc channels :)
Feb 09 03:28:47 <zsoc> ok then
Feb 09 03:29:09 <jacques> dtzWill: I worked on GLUES
Feb 09 03:29:19 <jacques> dtzWill: but GLU != GLUT
Feb 09 03:29:48 <zsoc> http://glutes.sourceforge.net/ <--- something like that?
Feb 09 03:30:09 <zsoc> I need to do more research on GL extensions, there are tons of them
Feb 09 03:30:34 <dtzWill> jacques: oh. my mistake :)
Feb 09 03:30:42 <dtzWill> jacques: thought it was you :)
Feb 09 03:31:18 <jacques> dtzWill: and GLUES has been in cross-compile.git for a while - initial commit was Mon, 11 Jan 2010
Feb 09 03:31:31 <jacques> dtzWill: heh np
Feb 09 03:31:39 <zsoc> someone check out that link? it might be what we're looking for...
Feb 09 03:32:10 <zsoc> Also, anyone check out Phun? Physics engines have a "cool factor".. I know it uses SDL.. but i think there's glx garbage in there
Feb 09 03:32:21 <jacques> "The OpenGL Utility Toolkit (GLUT), originally written by Mark Kilgard" I went to college with that guy
Feb 09 03:32:43 <jacques> we were both into graphics at the time
Feb 09 03:32:44 <zsoc> jacques: lol, call him ;)
Feb 09 03:32:55 <jacques> we ... weren't exactly friends :-)
Feb 09 03:32:55 <zsoc> GLUT is pretty much "big time" afaik
Feb 09 03:33:01 <zsoc> ooooohhhhhh lol
Feb 09 03:33:02 <zsoc> hehe
Feb 09 03:33:05 <jacques> more like rivals
Feb 09 03:33:13 <zsoc> jacques: well, make something to shove in his face ;)
Feb 09 03:33:16 <zsoc> can be good motivation hehe
Feb 09 03:33:22 <jacques> IIRC he went to work for SGI right out of college
Feb 09 03:33:35 <zonyl> zsoc: I love Phun.  I saw someone mention that on PC and immediately thought of porting that as well.
Feb 09 03:35:11 <rwhitby> zonyl: I think SDLvnc should be a service, which is called from a webOS app, and the webOS app is able to run multiple VNC sessions in separate cards by the service starting multiple executables (just like you can run multiple Quake games).
Feb 09 03:35:14 <jacques> looking at GLUT - I think it might not make a lot of sense currently on WebOS - it seems to be for window and event loop handling - both of which are done by SDL
Feb 09 03:35:23 <rwhitby> type:game won't give you that, but a service architecture will
Feb 09 03:35:40 <jacques> tho maybe the menu stuff would be useful - hmm - gotta check more in-depth
Feb 09 03:37:45 <gaffo_home> from what I remember glut is so you can write model viewers / etc and other stuff very easily and not worry about windowing concerns.  but that was in 2000.
Feb 09 03:38:59 <zonyl> rwhitby: Not a bad idea.  Ill have to play a bit and see what works.  I think a MoJo front end calling a service would be ideal (I can do the profile management there)
Feb 09 03:39:05 <jacques> gaffo_home: yeah I am seeing more useful stuff in there - like a file browser
Feb 09 03:39:07 <zsoc> right, i think the idea is it makes things 'easier', but not 'necessary' (except to port things that use it)
Feb 09 03:39:23 <rwhitby> zonyl: I'm looking at the same architecture for an openvpn front end
Feb 09 03:39:40 <jacques> GLU is similar - makes certain things like viewport setup easier
Feb 09 03:40:05 <jacques> http://www.opengl.org/resources/libraries/glut/spec3/spec3.html
Feb 09 03:40:09 <gaffo_home> jacques, yeah, I gorgot the os-independent thing. That was a much bigger deal in 2000.  Youd want to be able to compile your 3d simulation viewer or 3d model viewer so it ran everywhere with minimal work.
Feb 09 03:40:10 <jacques> that's the API
Feb 09 03:40:12 <gaffo_home> yeah
Feb 09 03:40:15 <zonyl> rwhitby: Shove the service in upstart then?
Feb 09 03:40:34 <rwhitby> zonyl: yep
Feb 09 03:40:51 <rwhitby> zonyl: C-based - use exampleservice as an example
Feb 09 03:40:53 <jacques> gaffo_home: yep, and it looked exactly the same everywhere, and nothing like the native GUI :-D
Feb 09 03:41:36 <gaffo_home> jacques, that's better than it not working anywhere but a sgi box :)
Feb 09 03:41:58 <zsoc> raster: was my question inappropriate or missed?
Feb 09 03:42:00 <zonyl> rwhitby: I did something similar back when the pre came out and was launching apps via thttpd.   I think this is the way to go.  I just need to learn a little more about mojo then.
Feb 09 03:42:29 <jacques> GLUT|ES would be worth it solely for glutSolidTeapot()
Feb 09 03:42:30 <zonyl> rwhitby: Not launching via thttpd I mean. ;)
Feb 09 03:43:11 <zsoc> yeaaahh! teapots!
Feb 09 03:43:14 <rwhitby> zonyl: yeah, C-based services fronted by mojo should work quite well, and can't really be broken by future webOS upgrades like type:game can be
Feb 09 03:43:30 <gaffo_home> jacques, :)
Feb 09 03:43:37 <jacques> yes, currently webos has a distinct shortage of teapots
Feb 09 03:44:03 <zonyl> I would like to publish some stuff I am working on via the official channel though, so I am trying to be careful about what I can and cannot do.
Feb 09 03:44:43 <zonyl> Im afraid to sign up for Palm's PDK as that would somehow disqualify me from writing anything opensource now.
Feb 09 03:45:04 <jacques> maybe the spaceball API in GLUT could be mapped to the accelerometer
Feb 09 03:45:15 <zsoc> zonyl: fortunately that's not the case i think, but rod is the aficionado there.
Feb 09 03:45:36 <destinal-wirc> zonyl: don't worry,youre not likely to get pdk anyway :)
Feb 09 03:45:54 <jacques> :-\
Feb 09 03:46:48 <zsoc> destinal-wirc: lol why is that?
Feb 09 03:47:28 <destinal-wirc> most get a form letter saying wait for march
Feb 09 03:47:31 <swishy> zonyl: why would it disqualify you?
Feb 09 03:47:49 <destinal-wirc> I think he's wary of nda
Feb 09 03:47:59 <Thesolonius> there's an nda associated with pdk?
Feb 09 03:48:00 <zonyl> swishy: Might be hard to discern information gathered against nda.
Feb 09 03:48:13 <zsoc> destinal-wirc: i think he meant in march
Feb 09 03:48:16 <zsoc> march is not far
Feb 09 03:48:21 <destinal-wirc> and anyway I doubt pdk has much widk doesn't except some polish
Feb 09 03:48:24 <swishy> zonyl: right
Feb 09 03:48:33 <sdodson> Are we still expecting 1.4 in february?
Feb 09 03:48:41 <zsoc> sdodson: no reason not to
Feb 09 03:48:45 <destinal-wirc> oh,well then no that would not disqualify
Feb 09 03:49:04 <destinal-wirc> lots of oss will probably use pdk
Feb 09 03:49:22 <zsoc> palm chose linux for webos, somehow i doubt they dislike oss ;)
Feb 09 03:49:52 <zonyl> destinal-wirc: Originally in the early-access program Chuq was stalling on my questions about oss.
Feb 09 03:50:01 <raster> zsoc:  eh? sorry. missed it
Feb 09 03:50:12 <raster> oh bada
Feb 09 03:50:18 <zsoc> raster: yes :)
Feb 09 03:50:24 <destinal-wirc> early access is different
Feb 09 03:50:25 <raster> i dont have anything remotely to do with bada
Feb 09 03:50:31 <raster> i frankly dont much care
Feb 09 03:50:34 <destinal-wirc> nda and all
Feb 09 03:50:41 <raster> its not based on linux or x11
Feb 09 03:50:57 <zsoc> raster: oh. ok then. that's good. because i don't think it's very attractive and was hoping it wasn't you project :>
Feb 09 03:51:02 <raster> thus.. i dont give a flying hoot
Feb 09 03:51:03 <raster> :)
Feb 09 03:51:56 <jacques> argh. no teapots in glut|es http://glutes.sourceforge.net/functions.html
Feb 09 03:52:09 <zsoc> jacques: oh well.. we'll live without the teapots...
Feb 09 03:52:29 <jacques> they probably didn't want to convert to trifans or whatever ES uses
Feb 09 03:53:40 <zsoc> someone wanna test build gst-plugins-base in /nonworking of the widk?
Feb 09 03:56:00 <gaffo_home> what's this bada thing people keep talking about?
Feb 09 03:59:10 <zsoc> gaffo_home: apparently nothing interesting
Feb 09 03:59:20 <gaffo_home> :)
Feb 09 03:59:30 <swishy> lol
Feb 09 04:00:34 <jacques> hmm, that list may be wrong - I downloaded glutes and there is a teapot function
Feb 09 04:01:44 <jacques> but then I really don't need anything to distract me from Xsdl
Feb 09 04:02:04 <rick-home> zsoc -- vnc -- great work.
Feb 09 04:02:14 <zsoc> rick-home: hm? no, not me at all. zonyl.
Feb 09 04:02:29 <zsoc> rick-home: i don't do great work :>
Feb 09 04:06:42 <zsoc> has anyone else played with sdlvnc besides zonyl ?
Feb 09 04:07:15 <dtzWill> jacques: go xdl go :)
Feb 09 04:08:26 <dtzWill> s/xdl/sdl/
Feb 09 04:08:27 <infobot> dtzWill meant: jacques: go sdl go :)
Feb 09 04:08:28 <dtzWill> @#%^
Feb 09 04:08:31 <dtzWill> sigh
Feb 09 04:09:01 <jacques> dtzWill: at this point I think it has something to do with the fancy under-the-table buffer swapping the palm SDL patch does
Feb 09 04:09:45 <jacques> I've been reading those patches and need to beef up my instrumentation to account for the "hidden" data
Feb 09 04:25:40 <dtzWill> jacques: yeah it's a shame we can't build libsdl ourselves :/
Feb 09 04:26:21 * zsoc <3's the widk
Feb 09 04:26:39 <xcomp> glutes ... hah
Feb 09 04:28:08 * zsoc plays flac files on his pre
Feb 09 04:28:16 <zsoc> xcomp: i was waiting for someone to get that lol
Feb 09 04:30:12 <egaudet> zsoc, ever fix your git?
Feb 09 04:30:25 <zsoc> egaudet: yes i uh... sort of fixed the _whole_ git
Feb 09 04:30:26 <zsoc> ahem
Feb 09 04:30:32 <zsoc> and we shall never talk about it again
Feb 09 04:30:55 <zsoc> egaudet: in other news, gstreamer plugins are building nicely.. adding various library support as we speak
Feb 09 04:31:28 <rick-home> that's nice.
Feb 09 04:31:41 * zsoc wants everyone to play flac on their pre
Feb 09 04:31:56 <egaudet> nice
Feb 09 04:32:11 <gaffo_home> anyone notice the dolphins warning on the WIDK install?
Feb 09 04:34:10 <hckyplayer024> is there any way I can backup patches before I do webos repair utility?
Feb 09 04:36:49 <gaffo_home> where's a good place to report problems installing the WIDK? I'm on ubuntu 64 bit 9.10.
Feb 09 04:37:56 <cryptk|work> hola WHE's
Feb 09 04:38:03 <zsoc> yo
Feb 09 04:38:05 <cryptk|work> (and WHE-ettes)
Feb 09 04:38:11 <zsoc> gaffo_home: right here, please :)
Feb 09 04:38:27 <zsoc> gaffo_home: and er... "dolphin warnings".... ?
Feb 09 04:40:14 <gaffo_home> zsoc http://webos.pastebin.com/m7dd3a75f
Feb 09 04:40:22 <rwhitby> gaffo_home: WIDK only supports 32 bit 9.10 server.  we'll ignore bug reports on 64 bit unless you've got a fix at the same time which does not affect 32 bit support :-)
Feb 09 04:41:06 <rwhitby> (e.g. please reproduce it on a 32-bit VM install of 9.10 server before reporting it)
Feb 09 04:41:21 <zsoc> gaffo_home: what he said, although honestly from that log it just seems openssl is missing
Feb 09 04:42:02 <rwhitby> does eet have a DEPENDS for openssl in the Makefile?
Feb 09 04:42:33 <cryptk|work> so i think I may be able to recover the bootloader work I had done so far
Feb 09 04:42:42 <gaffo_home> zsoc, I think I've got that installed.
Feb 09 04:42:46 <cryptk|work> (if you guys didn't hear, my HD took a dump and had to be replaced)
Feb 09 04:43:05 <gaffo_home> rwhitby, so Server 32 bit?
Feb 09 04:43:07 <jacques> DEPENDS = zlib jpeg libgcrypt openssl eina
Feb 09 04:43:27 <rwhitby> gaffo_home: yep, I just run a virtualbox VM for it.
Feb 09 04:43:29 <jacques> cryptk|work: I hadn't heard. I wondered what happened to you
Feb 09 04:43:33 <zsoc> cryptk|work: ick
Feb 09 04:43:51 <cryptk|work> I mean i didn't have that much work done so far, but I did have a bit...
Feb 09 04:44:23 <gaffo_home> http://webos.pastebin.com/m7351d020
Feb 09 04:44:58 <zsoc> haha
Feb 09 04:45:02 <zsoc> thank you raster
Feb 09 04:45:57 <gaffo_home> ?
Feb 09 04:52:18 <cryptk|work> (on a side note I got a 1TB drive for 100 bucks...)
Feb 09 04:52:32 <gaffo_home> that much?
Feb 09 04:52:48 <gaffo_home> man, I remember when 1TB cost $.50
Feb 09 04:52:57 <gaffo_home> oh wait that was GB :)
Feb 09 04:55:42 <cryptk|work> haha
Feb 09 04:57:10 <rick-home> I sold hundreds,  perhaps thousands of 20 megabyte drives.
Feb 09 04:57:44 <rick-home> 0.000002 TB
Feb 09 04:58:00 <rick-home> which TOGETHER don't add up to a terabyte
Feb 09 04:58:12 <zsoc> 1TB drives have been 100 dollars for a year
Feb 09 04:58:18 <gaffo_home> :) my first harddrive was a 5MBer for the original mac we paid like 4k to upgrade to 512k ram
Feb 09 04:58:34 <gaffo_home> think the drive was like a grand
Feb 09 04:58:52 <VincentLaw> and everytime you get a new hd, you think "man, I'll never be able to fill this"
Feb 09 04:59:05 <gaffo_home> and then 2 weeks later it's full :)
Feb 09 04:59:06 <rick-home> nodnod.  My first harddrive was a 14 inch 5 platter 1 megabyte removable drive in a cabinet the size of a file-cabinet.
Feb 09 04:59:26 <gaffo_home> rick-home, you've got me beat
Feb 09 04:59:46 <VincentLaw> my first hard drive was a pad of paper
Feb 09 04:59:48 <VincentLaw> >.>
Feb 09 04:59:59 * gaffo_home 's dad was a senior partner so he had to have the best hardware even if he didn't know how to use them. Otherwise the rest of the lawyers bitched about pecking order
Feb 09 05:02:07 <rick-home> http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/1130/1130_4513PH04.html   the white cartridge in the woman's hand was a 1 mb 14" disk cart.
Feb 09 05:02:18 <gaffo_home> rick-home, we haven't come very far since then (I say as I install ubuntu server into virtual box image that is gb ram and 8 gb hardrive)
Feb 09 05:02:37 <jacques> gaffo_home: I too had an original 128k mac
Feb 09 05:02:44 <jacques> but only with a floppy drive
Feb 09 05:03:05 <jacques> which was much better than the casette drive I had to use wuth the vic20
Feb 09 05:03:39 <rick-home> http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/1130/1130_4513PH06.html   card reader/punch on the left,  printer on the right.   -- ours had blue panels.
Feb 09 05:03:41 <gaffo_home> jacques, :) mac was my first computer. We were all amazed that you didn't have to rewind the floppy.
Feb 09 05:04:18 <jacques> rick-home: I hope you always remembered to mount a scratch monkey
Feb 09 05:04:24 <gaffo_home> rick-home, looks like a star trek set
Feb 09 05:04:41 <gaffo_home> scratch monkey?
Feb 09 05:06:12 <jacques> http://edp.org/monkey.htm
Feb 09 05:06:20 <rick-home> 512K 16 bit words,   28 kHz clock.
Feb 09 05:06:37 * jacques first heard the scratch monkey story in 1987
Feb 09 05:06:47 <rick-home> 3.6 microseconds per cycle.
Feb 09 05:07:21 <jacques> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scratch_monkey
Feb 09 05:07:49 <rick-home> after loading the fortran compiler and the operating system, we had 16K to write and run programs in.  This was the School districts retired mainframe that they let the highschool students have access to after school.
Feb 09 05:08:13 <rick-home> So, we would spend class time coding, go over and punch the cards, and put them in and run them.  Direct hands-on-access just like a PC.
Feb 09 05:08:17 <rick-home> It was SO COOL.
Feb 09 05:08:38 <jacques> http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/S/scratch-monkey.html
Feb 09 05:11:14 <rick-home> Mabel the swinning wonder monkey will live forever....  or until all the really old geeks die.
Feb 09 05:11:32 <gaffo_home> just need to get Verner Vinge to talk about her
Feb 09 05:12:13 <rick-home> and put her in a bobble.
Feb 09 05:13:00 <gaffo_home> or stephenson who would be more likely
Feb 09 05:15:17 <ird> hmm..
Feb 09 05:15:23 <ird> Could someone tell me what..
Feb 09 05:15:24 <ird> shopt -s extglob
Feb 09 05:15:25 <ird> does?
Feb 09 05:16:43 <ird> oh wait
Feb 09 05:16:46 <ird> I finally found it.
Feb 09 05:19:45 <mw> Does the webOS WebKit include squirrelfish and/or out-of-process plugins?
Feb 09 05:22:34 <jacques> how about Charles Stross ?
Feb 09 05:24:34 <xcomp> gles headers are stagified
Feb 09 05:25:39 <jacques> xcomp: cool
Feb 09 05:27:08 <tmzt> stagified?
Feb 09 05:27:30 <jacques> staged
Feb 09 05:27:39 <tmzt> ah
Feb 09 05:29:47 <gaffo_home> staged?
Feb 09 05:29:59 <jacques> lol
Feb 09 05:30:08 <jacques> in cross-compile.git
Feb 09 05:30:21 <gaffo_home> git?
Feb 09 05:30:32 <gaffo_home> in?
Feb 09 05:30:36 <jacques> put into the staging dir for use by the scratchbox2 environment
Feb 09 05:30:59 <rwhitby> by?
Feb 09 05:31:06 <gaffo_home> for?
Feb 09 05:31:12 <rwhitby> ??
Feb 09 05:31:15 <jacques> aaaaaahh!!!!
Feb 09 05:31:20 <gaffo_home> :) rwhitby gets it, hah!
Feb 09 05:31:29 <jacques> ~~~~
Feb 09 05:31:30 <infobot> ARGH!!! STOP IT jacques!!!
Feb 09 05:32:05 <cryptk|work> bbiab... break time
Feb 09 05:41:58 <cryptk|work> lol
Feb 09 05:42:00 <cryptk|work> back btw
Feb 09 06:02:44 <Robi_> woot
Feb 09 06:03:02 <Robi_> saw the release, i could give you Croatian rwhitby
Feb 09 06:03:20 <rwhitby> Robi_: does webOS have a croation language selector?
Feb 09 06:03:35 <Robi_> i dont know
Feb 09 06:03:51 <jhojho> rwhitby: is there a file that you are using to do translations?
Feb 09 06:04:08 <rwhitby> jhojho: yep, it's in the source
Feb 09 06:04:09 <Robi_> you probably want spanish in that case
Feb 09 06:08:50 <jhojho> rwhitby: okay. I might take a stab at it
Feb 09 06:09:12 <jhojho> btw are you making distinctions for en-us, en-uk etc?
Feb 09 06:09:22 <jhojho> or is en just en and so on so forth?
Feb 09 06:09:56 <rwhitby> just en
Feb 09 06:10:07 <rwhitby> no need to make more work for ourselves
Feb 09 06:11:55 <jhojho> i suppose I need to send you my ssh key for access to the git repo?
Feb 09 06:14:01 <cryptk|work> I have a buddy that could do a klingon translation, lol...
Feb 09 06:14:09 <cryptk|work> throw it in preware as an easter egg... HAHA
Feb 09 06:17:06 <jhojho> heck you could have one that is swedish chef
Feb 09 06:17:12 <jhojho> bork bork bork
Feb 09 06:25:21 <rwhitby> Preware does not have a setting for controlling the language - it uses whatever your Pre is set to in webOS.
Feb 09 06:28:45 <jacques> anyone know how a SDL app can be notified when it's minimized?
Feb 09 06:29:34 <jacques> maybe it's a new SDL event type ...
Feb 09 06:40:39 <rwhitby> jacques: SDL_ACTIVEEVENT ?
Feb 09 06:42:29 <rwhitby> http://www.pygame.org/ctypes/sdl-api/SDL.SDL_ActiveEvent-class.html
Feb 09 06:44:21 <jacques> rwhitby: yeah that might be it ... and the converse might be PAUSED ... (even thought the app isn't strictly paused)
Feb 09 06:46:53 <jacques> I guess I should standardize on calling it "card mode" like the SDL patches do
Feb 09 06:48:06 <jhojho> argh
Feb 09 06:48:08 <jhojho> github is down
Feb 09 06:49:25 <rwhitby> ouch: http://twitter.com/github doesn't show a good history
Feb 09 06:49:35 <dtzWill> jacques: http://bit.ly/dqK6Kv fwiw
Feb 09 06:49:47 * rwhitby is glad we created git.webosinternals.org
Feb 09 06:49:50 <dtzWill> someone was asking about x on iphone, just got around to googling :)
Feb 09 06:49:56 <dtzWill> rwhitby: me too :) ty :D
Feb 09 06:59:45 <jacques> I wonder where the source is
Feb 09 06:59:55 <jacques> or did they rite an X server from scratch?
Feb 09 07:00:00 <jacques> write
Feb 09 07:06:37 <rwhitby> oil: ping
Feb 09 07:07:21 <jacques> so I do get events on max and min, just gotta figure out how to decode them
Feb 09 07:08:01 <xcomp> jacques: you have to look in the event struct
Feb 09 07:08:06 <rwhitby> jacques: that pygame link had some doco
Feb 09 07:08:07 <Robi_> rwhitby: US Pre's only have english and spanish
Feb 09 07:08:08 <xcomp> ev->state
Feb 09 07:08:30 <xcomp> ev->gain should be 1 if active and 0 if inactive
Feb 09 07:08:40 <jhojho> rwhitby: I suspect github uptime issues are due to web devs running it =)
Feb 09 07:08:58 <jacques> on each state change I get a 17 and a 1: 1 is SDL_ACTIVEEVENT, 17 is SDL_VIDEOEXPOSE
Feb 09 07:09:01 <jhojho> not throwing hate, just a very different skillset
Feb 09 07:09:15 <jacques> xcomp: thanks!
Feb 09 07:09:28 <xcomp> jacques: the SDL_VIDEOEXPOSE is telling you you need to redraw
Feb 09 07:09:39 <jacques> thanks to rwhitby too :-)
Feb 09 07:09:48 <xcomp> struct SDL_ActiveEvent in SDL_event.h
Feb 09 07:10:35 <rwhitby> http://www.pygame.org/ctypes/sdl-api/SDL.SDL_ActiveEvent-class.html
Feb 09 07:12:12 <jacques> xcomp: so a SDL_UpdateRect() / SDL_Flip() would be enough to handle an EXPOSE event?
Feb 09 07:13:19 <xcomp> yeah that should do it ... after you've handled all of your internal business
Feb 09 07:14:18 <xcomp> evas ouptut flush simply calls SDL_UpdateRects
Feb 09 07:14:42 <jacques> xcomp: it's smart? does multiple rects?
Feb 09 07:14:43 <xcomp> although it keeps tracks of which regions are "dirty" and only updates those regions
Feb 09 07:14:47 <jacques> nice
Feb 09 07:15:03 <jacques> that can be done with X too, but it's not currently
Feb 09 07:15:38 <jacques> I have started using SDL_Flip() as the docs say on a SWSURFACE it's the same as SDL_UpdateRect(0,0,0,0)
Feb 09 07:17:04 <xcomp> jacques: yeah -- as long as you're redrawing the entire screen every time
Feb 09 07:19:06 <jacques> xcomp: right now I am (for all the good it's doing heh)
Feb 09 08:54:36 <jacques> well I am not much closer to knowing why Xsdl is black at fullscreen, but I did learn more about a minor mystery
Feb 09 08:55:17 <jacques> 32bpp mode is strange. even the card view was black.
Feb 09 08:56:30 <jacques> it seems there is something going on with alpha handling - in 32bpp the X server is drawing with the alpha channel set to 0, and this gets rendered as transparent
Feb 09 08:56:52 <jhojho> the app catalog really needs to have changelogs for apps. hard to tell what has changed...
Feb 09 08:57:14 <rwhitby> jhojho: yeah, they need to add a field to the scheme
Feb 09 08:57:17 <rwhitby> schema
Feb 09 08:57:58 <jacques> if I but AFAICT I do not have SDL configured for using the alpha channel; it's just doing it anyway
Feb 09 08:58:25 <jhojho> noticed that the shortcovers app has been renamed. now it's kobo or something. still slow tho.
Feb 09 08:58:32 <jacques> 32bpp mode is important because any other mode involves a shadow buffer, and as the patch says "this will reduce performance"
Feb 09 09:00:28 <cryptk|work> jhojho: the thing is, they can even just change the description and it will bump it up to the top of the list... even if the app itself has no changes... add a comma... top of the list...
Feb 09 09:01:18 <jhojho> cryptk|work: thing is, i think it would be nice if palm went ahead and made a changelog mandatory.
Feb 09 09:01:54 <jhojho> it's imo good practice to have a changelog. helps people understand what has changed, gotchas etc.
Feb 09 09:05:40 <jacques> I noticed assassin's creed is updated to version 1.0.6 - I would like to know what changed
Feb 09 09:16:29 <cryptk|work> jhojho: believe me, I agree with you completely... I also think that changing your apps description should not put it at the top of the list in the catalog... only changes to that actual app itself...
Feb 09 09:25:30 <cryptk|work> OMG!
Feb 09 09:26:00 <cryptk|work> I may be able to test this dual boot stuff in the emulator!!
Feb 09 10:10:23 <cryptk|work> I am going to have to try that once I get home...
Feb 09 10:10:57 <cryptk|work> this link talks about loading grub onto a disk image... obviously I can't use GRUB on a pre... but I may be able to apply the same techniques...
Feb 09 10:10:57 <cryptk|work> http://www.omninerd.com/articles/Installing_GRUB_on_a_Hard_Disk_Image_File
Feb 09 10:31:51 <joshua> http://developer.palm.com/webChannel/index.php?packageid=com.asian.asiangirls
Feb 09 10:31:55 <joshua> ooo la la
Feb 09 11:14:33 <cryptk|work> joshua: lol
Feb 09 11:29:06 * rwhitby bbt
Feb 09 13:28:57 <AnOutsider> nice review of mytether rod, but perhaps hire a PR person to reshape your words first next time ;)
Feb 09 14:27:28 <zsoc> Ok. So who is familiar with the fileindexer?
Feb 09 14:46:46 <gaffo_home> zsoc, another one: http://webos.pastebin.com/m77c2f743, this is on Ubuntu Server 32bit when setting up scratchbox (sudo apt-get install scratchbox2 qemu-kvm-extras)
Feb 09 14:47:09 <zsoc> gaffo_home: ooo.. you're finding all these cool things, lol 1 sec
Feb 09 14:48:19 <zsocwerkin> gaffo_home: did you install and uninstall qemu-arm-static?
Feb 09 14:49:28 <zsocwerkin> gaffo_home: although honestly, I don't think failure to load that module will affect anything. I believe the same happened to me. prolly loads on reboot
Feb 09 14:50:36 <zsocwerkin> gaffo_home: OR your cpu may not be kvm enabled
Feb 09 14:51:40 <zsocwerkin> gaffo_home: if you do not have a virtualization-capable cpu, you will need to do it in virtualbox ose (which acts as a virtual virtualizer :p)
Feb 09 14:52:34 <zsocwerkin> gaffo_home: if you want to check your /proc/cpuinfo to be sure.. you're looking for 'vmx' or 'svm' flags iirc
Feb 09 14:52:50 <zsocwerkin> but I'm no virtualization guru
Feb 09 14:52:55 <zsocwerkin> zinge: hey it's you!
Feb 09 14:53:00 <zinge> hey, its me!
Feb 09 14:53:05 <zinge> What'd I do?
Feb 09 14:53:37 <zsocwerkin> zinge: brightness unlinked touchstone screen off is the best feature of all time
Feb 09 14:53:41 <nt4cats> zsocwerkin: there is no reason not to use the "full" virtualbox, by the way.
Feb 09 14:53:51 <nt4cats> zsocwerkin: (at least that I can see)
Feb 09 14:53:52 <zsocwerkin> nt4cats: except it isn't free?
Feb 09 14:54:04 <zsocwerkin> nt4cats: or oss
Feb 09 14:54:09 <nt4cats> zsocwerkin: what kind of free do you mean?
Feb 09 14:54:10 <zinge> zsocwerkin: thanks :-), glad you like it
Feb 09 14:54:35 <zsocwerkin> zinge: also, how in the world did you hack it? everyone else claims it's tied up in binaries and can't be touched
Feb 09 14:54:37 <nt4cats> zsocwerkin: there is zero cost and there are no license fees needed unless you are planning a centralized enterprise-wide install
Feb 09 14:55:05 <nt4cats> zsocwerkin: they have a VERY liberal definition of "personal use".
Feb 09 14:55:07 <zsocwerkin> nt4cats: we'll it's still not oss :>
Feb 09 14:55:15 <zsocwerkin> but that is good to know
Feb 09 14:55:42 <zsocwerkin> albeit usb support is convenient...
Feb 09 14:56:01 <nt4cats> zsocwerkin: that's true (not OSS) -- but I think that VirtualBox has been a good participant in the OSS community, so I don't feel dirty using their closed-source version.
Feb 09 14:56:01 <zinge> zsocwerkin: it is tied up in binaries... I'm cheating. I'm just killing the power to the backlight when the phone is on the touchstone and tells the dbus that it is locked
Feb 09 14:56:19 <gaffo_home> zsocwerkin, yes, install and uninstall
Feb 09 14:56:33 <zsocwerkin> zinge: ahahahaaa. spoken like a true cheater :) I like it
Feb 09 14:56:48 <zsocwerkin> gaffo_home: then it's a virtualzation issue like I mentioned
Feb 09 14:56:55 <nt4cats> zsocwerkin: in their license they explicitly say that "installing this on your work computer for your work/commercial use is okay".
Feb 09 14:57:14 <nt4cats> (that's a paraphrase, but their statement is equally as clear and direct)
Feb 09 14:57:25 <gaffo_home> zsocwerkin, http://webos.pastebin.com/md2e561c
Feb 09 14:57:57 <zinge> since more people in here seem to be active.... if anyone knows anything about working with the accelerometer within an app, do you mind jumping over to #webos and helping me out real quick? I'm having some trouble using the palm examples.
Feb 09 14:57:58 <gaffo_home> zsocwerkin, I can send you the entire output if you want, I set my scrollback really big.
Feb 09 14:58:14 <zsocwerkin> gaffo_home: ... no. just check for the flags I told you to check for
Feb 09 14:59:09 <zsocwerkin> zinge: unfortunately my accelerometer knowledge is limited to sdl... so unless you're working with the pdk I'm pretty useless :)
Feb 09 14:59:54 <gaffo_home> zsocwerkin, yep, looks like I don't have that flag. So do I need to stop "make stage" and enable it or just enable it after I'm done with the makey stagey?
Feb 09 15:00:09 <loot-> heh
Feb 09 15:00:14 <loot-> yay my pre bit the dust
Feb 09 15:00:17 <zinge> darn, ok. I can't seem to get the stupid thing to give me any data.
Feb 09 15:00:27 <loot-> black screened while it was on
Feb 09 15:00:33 <loot-> pulled the battery for 20min turned it back on
Feb 09 15:00:40 <zsocwerkin> gaffo_home: I believe it is impossible for your cpu to do the job. you will need to install virtualbox, and ubuntu in that virtual box
Feb 09 15:00:40 <loot-> goes to palm screen and sits there forever
Feb 09 15:00:46 <loot-> :(
Feb 09 15:00:51 <zsocwerkin> loot-: doctor it
Feb 09 15:00:59 <loot-> it wont even do that
Feb 09 15:01:08 <loot-> i think my poor phone is toast
Feb 09 15:01:13 <zsocwerkin> loot-: hold up while installed battery?
Feb 09 15:01:16 <loot-> its a gen1 though
Feb 09 15:01:21 <nt4cats> loot-: what did you do to it?
Feb 09 15:01:33 <loot-> nt4cats: nothing it actually did this in my pocket while i was driving to work
Feb 09 15:01:43 <loot-> zsocwerkin: hold up?
Feb 09 15:01:52 <nt4cats> loot-: I guess you should ... ummmm ... stop driving to work?
Feb 09 15:02:05 <loot-> the battery is out right now
Feb 09 15:02:10 <loot-> has been out for about 20 minutes or so
Feb 09 15:02:18 <gaffo_home> zsocwerkin, and then do the compile?
Feb 09 15:02:37 <zsocwerkin> loot-: hold volume up while putting in the usb, or something like that
Feb 09 15:03:09 <loot-> ah
Feb 09 15:03:18 <zsocwerkin> gaffo_home: uh.. we'll virtual box allows you to install another operating system. you probably need a gui for it (unless you look into using headless mode)
Feb 09 15:04:20 <loot-> ah!
Feb 09 15:04:30 <loot-> zsocwerkin: i did that without the usb
Feb 09 15:04:33 <loot-> and its booting!
Feb 09 15:04:44 <loot-> i didnt even put the back plate back on yet
Feb 09 15:05:06 <gaffo_home> so I need a virtual box inside of my virtual boxed ubuntu server that I'm trying to put the toolchain on?
Feb 09 15:06:45 <gaffo_home> or do I just need to enable virtualization in vbox on the original host?
Feb 09 15:07:19 <gaffo_home> damn, gotta go to work
Feb 09 15:09:57 <zsocwerkin> gaffo_home: you have bested my knowledge.
Feb 09 15:13:55 <zsocwerkin> loot-: may be unrelated. I have found that after bad crashes, it takes 2 reboots to sort things out
Feb 09 15:15:49 <zsocwerkin> gaffo_home: wait, you're already running a virtualbox? I missed that part
Feb 09 15:16:11 <zsocwerkin> gaffo_home: if that is the case, you should have no further issues and can ignore that warning.
Feb 09 15:16:38 <loot-> its working
Feb 09 15:16:42 <loot-> sweet
Feb 09 15:16:46 <loot-> i think im going to doctor it anyways
Feb 09 15:16:57 <loot-> i only doctored my phone once right after i first got it
Feb 09 15:17:21 <loot-> its pretty hacked up at this point with a gentoo userland with metasploit and some other goodies
Feb 09 15:17:30 <zsocwerkin> lol nice
Feb 09 15:17:52 <zsocwerkin> if only the WiFi card could do monitor/injection...
Feb 09 15:17:57 <loot-> yea
Feb 09 15:17:59 <loot-> i want rfmon :(
Feb 09 15:18:12 <loot-> it would be an awesome hacking device if they allowed that
Feb 09 15:18:13 <loot-> but
Feb 09 15:18:19 <loot-> you can still USB dongle an rfmon card
Feb 09 15:18:38 <zsocwerkin> I still want to write a utility that autocracks wep... wouldn't be too tough
Feb 09 15:19:14 <loot-> there are
Feb 09 15:19:34 <zsocwerkin> test for fakeauth, if fail find client, change mac, reauth, collect packets, grab (or generate) arp, object arp, crack
Feb 09 15:19:53 <zsocwerkin> it's just so fun to do manually :( on my own networks of course.
Feb 09 15:21:27 <loot-> hehe
Feb 09 15:21:35 <loot-> wifi is trivial at this point
Feb 09 15:21:48 <loot-> even wpa2 isnt invulnerable
Feb 09 15:22:39 <zsocwerkin> loot-: it is with a good passphrase
Feb 09 15:23:07 <zsocwerkin> loot-: I low that geeksquad still sets up wep, as we'll as linksys/netgear configure wizards default to wep
Feb 09 15:23:13 <zsocwerkin> s/low/love
Feb 09 15:23:21 <loot-> ya the longer your wpa2 passphrase the better
Feb 09 15:23:26 <loot-> you only enter it once anyways
Feb 09 15:23:36 * nt4cats gives zsocwerkin a trailing slash for his oops I meant ... command
Feb 09 15:23:45 <zsocwerkin> loot-: 8 character random combination is pretty much unbreakable atm
Feb 09 15:23:55 <loot-> 8 char? no
Feb 09 15:23:57 <loot-> i dont brute force
Feb 09 15:24:00 <zsocwerkin> nt4cats: nah, I didn't want infobot respattering my garbage lol
Feb 09 15:24:07 <cryptk> I think I may have fixed my linux!!!
Feb 09 15:24:07 <loot-> i steal their traffic and crack it :P
Feb 09 15:24:11 * nt4cats hates the fact that his irc client eats double quotes when he starts a line with '/me'
Feb 09 15:24:27 <loot-> and if its mac filtered
Feb 09 15:24:33 <zsocwerkin> loot-: dictionary attacks don't work against random characters...
Feb 09 15:24:37 <loot-> i clone the mac
Feb 09 15:24:38 <loot-> :>
Feb 09 15:24:40 <zsocwerkin> mac filtering is a joke at best
Feb 09 15:25:08 <nt4cats> zsocwerkin: mac filtering keeps annoying newbies off of your network, that's about it.
Feb 09 15:25:10 <cryptk> depending on the encryption method used that can work loot-, try that on mine though
Feb 09 15:25:14 <zsocwerkin> cryptk: was your 'linux' broken?
Feb 09 15:25:18 <loot-> using any kind of brute force attack on anything
Feb 09 15:25:26 <loot-> just proves you shouldnt be doing what you're doing
Feb 09 15:25:37 <cryptk> zsocwerkin, well, my ubuntu wasn't working, more specifically the cursor was freezing shortly after bootup
Feb 09 15:26:04 <zsocwerkin> cryptk: sounds like a fun xorg/gnome/compiz issue
Feb 09 15:26:09 <cryptk> loot-, aircrack? I am assuming that is what the current convo is about
Feb 09 15:26:21 <loot-> cryptk: i was being generalistic
Feb 09 15:26:23 <cryptk> zsocwerkin, nope, weird glitch with the ubuntu installer actually
Feb 09 15:26:24 <loot-> but yes aircrack is one
Feb 09 15:26:31 <zsocwerkin> cryptk: interesting
Feb 09 15:26:44 <cryptk> I installed it with a different mouse and now it works great, even with the mouse that was freezing
Feb 09 15:26:53 <cryptk> I use a Logitech G7
Feb 09 15:27:01 <loot-> haha i should get a USB rfmon dongle and attach it to my long range directional wifi antenna
Feb 09 15:27:19 <loot-> repurposed sat dish ftw
Feb 09 15:27:33 <cryptk> and I just remembered what I did to fix it last time... I got fed up and I used a different mouse while I was in linux... that time I had installed it with only the other mouse... then one day I swapped back thinking maybe an update had fixed it
Feb 09 15:27:39 <loot-> i could hack your wifi from miles away with my palm pre
Feb 09 15:27:41 <cryptk> I figured it WAS an update until now
Feb 09 15:27:58 <cryptk> loot-, You aren't hacking my WiFi, lol
Feb 09 15:27:58 <zsocwerkin> loot-: that would get you terribly illegal amounts of dB's :)
Feb 09 15:28:16 <cryptk> mine runs on a channel that isn't even legal in the US, lol
Feb 09 15:28:30 <cryptk> good luck finding a dongle in the US that will even pick up my traffic
Feb 09 15:28:34 <loot-> theres ways aruond that also
Feb 09 15:28:35 <zsocwerkin> cryptk: excellent lol
Feb 09 15:28:35 <loot-> :P
Feb 09 15:28:40 <loot-> rfmon == you screwed
Feb 09 15:28:56 <cryptk> rfmon only picks up on the channels that the radio can read
Feb 09 15:29:04 <loot-> not all of them
Feb 09 15:29:09 <cryptk> it can't read mine
Feb 09 15:29:22 <loot-> dude i can borrow the spectrum analyzer from work
Feb 09 15:29:23 <cryptk> (manually specified channel... it doesn't overlap any of the legal channels
Feb 09 15:29:24 <loot-> and still own you
Feb 09 15:29:25 <loot-> :P
Feb 09 15:30:16 <loot-> 9khz to 3ghz
Feb 09 15:30:26 <cryptk> add to that mac filtering (keep out newbs) SSID broadcast off (keep out more newbs) very long password (keep out even more newbs) random characters using UPPER lower 1234's and !@#$'s
Feb 09 15:30:30 <loot-> and the other non-portable one is like 1k to like 50ghz
Feb 09 15:30:32 <loot-> or something insane
Feb 09 15:30:42 <TheInvsbleManpre> This conversation kind of makes me wish I kept my Information Assurance major. :-/ I miss security.
Feb 09 15:31:06 <loot-> luckily
Feb 09 15:31:10 <loot-> most of us in here are not GSM users
Feb 09 15:31:18 <loot-> so our calls are safe for the moment
Feb 09 15:31:19 <loot-> haha
Feb 09 15:32:18 <cryptk> CDMA's biggest aid is the freq hopping...
Feb 09 15:32:32 <cryptk> even though the implimentation of freq hopping in CDMA is horrid and mostly pointless
Feb 09 15:32:51 <cryptk> brb
Feb 09 15:33:02 <loot-> most signal hopping is
Feb 09 15:33:08 <loot-> good equipment isnt even phased by it
Feb 09 15:35:00 <cryptk> that and CDMA only hops at the start of a call
Feb 09 15:35:14 <cryptk> it picks a new freq for each call
Feb 09 15:35:21 <cryptk> and different freq for each participant
Feb 09 15:35:27 <loot-> i think EVDO is continuous
Feb 09 15:35:37 <cryptk> but you can stay with a participant throughout the entire call on the same freq
Feb 09 15:36:09 <cryptk> at some point I am gonna hafta reboot
Feb 09 15:36:21 <cryptk> ubuntu is installing updates, I know for a fact that a kernel update is in there
Feb 09 15:36:31 <cryptk> fresh install of 9.10... lol
Feb 09 15:36:47 <loot-> im to picky to run anything but gentoo on desktops
Feb 09 15:37:16 <loot-> obviously forced to use enterprise distros in the datacenter for support and cost of ownership blah blah
Feb 09 15:37:30 <loot-> s/to/too/
Feb 09 15:37:30 <infobot> loot- meant: obviously forced too use enterprise distros in the datacenter for support and cost of ownership blah blah
Feb 09 15:37:35 <cryptk> http://thdonline.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/gentoo.jpg
Feb 09 15:37:59 <cryptk> after the update I need to get my conky set up...
Feb 09 15:38:10 <cryptk> << conky whore
Feb 09 15:38:28 <zinge> Anybody happen to show up that can jump over to #webos and help me for a few minutes with iFrame or accelerometer stuff?
Feb 09 15:39:00 <cryptk> iFrame stuff would be normal web stuff...
Feb 09 15:39:10 <zinge> I know; but is it supported within an app?
Feb 09 15:39:22 <cryptk> any good online site about web design should be able to get you your answer
Feb 09 15:39:27 <cryptk> I am not sure
Feb 09 15:39:59 <zinge> I tried putting an iFrame directly in my html scene and I'm having some problems with it; thats what I wanted some help with
Feb 09 15:40:04 <zinge> Don't worry about it, thanks though.
Feb 09 15:48:16 <zefyx> i used a pre plus today, i'm super jealous of you verizon users!
Feb 09 15:50:43 <cryptk> someone told me the extra RAM doesn't really speed it up, just allows more cards to be open...
Feb 09 15:50:51 <cryptk> whoop... reboot time, brb
Feb 09 16:30:56 <DieterBohn> Hey folks - just poking my head in here to note that the more webOS devs who take this survey, the better: http://www.globaltestmarket.com/survey/s.phtml?sn=159600&lang=E&secid=e7c4c1 :D
Feb 09 16:33:32 <sugardave> DieterBohn: hit the other channel, too
Feb 09 16:34:13 <DieterBohn> will do.. erm, which channel? :|
Feb 09 16:35:21 <sugardave> DieterBohn: #webos
Feb 09 16:36:41 <DieterBohn> roger. thanks!
Feb 09 16:37:19 <sugardave> np
Feb 09 16:39:25 <egaudet_work> yea my skimming skills are awesome
Feb 09 16:39:45 <egaudet_work> The third question i saw as "enter a whole number" so I entered 3
Feb 09 16:39:58 <egaudet_work> but then I saw that it really said "what's your age?     Enter whole number"
Feb 09 16:40:17 <sugardave> hehehe
Feb 09 16:42:52 <cryptk> woot... conky all set up
Feb 09 16:43:03 <cryptk> damn I have gotten fast at working with conky scripts...
Feb 09 16:46:33 <nt4cats> egaudet_work: you sure the question wasn't "what is the age corresponding to your maturity level?"
Feb 09 16:46:53 <egaudet_work> nt4cats: couldn't have been, 3 is way too high for that
Feb 09 17:56:43 <farms> omg dennys is packed
Feb 09 17:58:23 <loot-> get me a western omelette and some flap jacks
Feb 09 18:00:07 <farms> nope free grand slam today
Feb 09 18:05:45 <nt4cats> farms: I'll take a General Tso's chicken and a beer
Feb 09 18:07:08 <farms> lol orders everyone please
Feb 09 18:08:14 <loot-> keg of redbull, barrel of grey goose, and a couple pizzas
Feb 09 18:08:27 <loot-> just preparing for the snow storm ;)
Feb 09 18:08:53 <farms> nice I wish it snowed in phx
Feb 09 18:09:33 <loot-> from what ive heard from people i know in pheonix
Feb 09 18:09:37 <loot-> its snowing meth there
Feb 09 18:09:38 <nt4cats> (this discussion just made me go to the office fridge and get a beer -- thanks)
Feb 09 18:10:21 <farms> lol indeed valley of the spun
Feb 09 18:10:47 <nt4cats> employer-provided GOOD beer is a nice benefit
Feb 09 18:10:50 <farms> is it possible to unlock agps on my pre plus
Feb 09 18:11:36 <nt4cats> farms: I saw some discussions about it on the precentral forums ... but as I'm on Sprint I didn't dig in.  I can't even say if someone offered a way to do it -- I just noticed a discussion of the topic
Feb 09 18:12:15 <farms> yea it's confirmed it's locked on the pre
Feb 09 18:16:04 <destinal> cryptk: I don't understand what you hope to gain by dual-booting the emulator, at all
Feb 09 18:21:27 <destinal> as a random observation I don'
Feb 09 18:22:03 <destinal> as a random observation I don't think making a second disk for optware installation on emulator should really be necessary anymore for the optware-bootstrap.  400+ megabytes are free on / now, which is plenty
Feb 09 18:28:26 <cryptk> destinal, I was just thinking i could possibly test it on there, I need to do some more looking at the emulator though in order to see if it is actually emulating ARM or if it is basically a port to x86
Feb 09 18:29:01 <destinal> cryptk: the emulator is nothing like the pre for layout, it's an x86 virtual machine running an x86 build of webos, it doesn't use LVM, it's got one big partition on the entire virtual disk,  and boots of a CD image
Feb 09 18:29:13 <cryptk> damn
Feb 09 18:29:16 <destinal> cryptk: essentially, not at all useful
Feb 09 18:29:46 <cryptk> I read that while I was at work and didn't have the emulator to look at... a part of me was hoping it was some kind of an ARM virtual machine... but since it is x86... it is indeed useless to me, lol
Feb 09 18:29:59 <cryptk> guess I will jsut have to stick with last resorting my phone over and over, lol...
Feb 09 18:30:03 <cryptk> already done it once
Feb 09 18:30:18 <cryptk> I am starting to wonder if the chainboot functionality of the stock bootloader works...
Feb 09 18:30:31 <cryptk> or if it is left as a remnant in the help menu
Feb 09 18:30:52 <cryptk> but don't go shouting "chainboot is broken", I only had about 5 minutes to play with it
Feb 09 18:31:08 <destinal> cryptk: well, hopefully if you're modifying partition 1 or the boot area of the flash you've made a backup :)
Feb 09 18:31:23 <cryptk> ;) indeed
Feb 09 18:31:37 <cryptk> that was the first thing I did
Feb 09 18:31:55 <cryptk> I have a backup on my HD on my comp... and on a flash drive... and on a CD... lol, paranoid?
Feb 09 18:31:58 <destinal> obviously the tokens on p1 are the one thing we're sure we won't be able to being back
Feb 09 18:32:01 <destinal> bring back
Feb 09 18:32:06 <cryptk> yep
Feb 09 18:34:33 <cryptk> by the end of this, I think I will be a Last Resort Guru, lol
Feb 09 18:47:57 <farms> how would i create a patch using diff
Feb 09 18:51:47 <debilater> diff orig-file new-file > patch-file
Feb 09 18:54:23 <egaudet_work> diff -BurNp old_dir new_dir > patch-file
Feb 09 19:03:10 <swisstomcat> heya
Feb 09 19:03:19 <swisstomcat> any idea what "albacore" is as the os string?
Feb 09 19:23:03 <debilater> dtzWill: ping
Feb 09 19:25:52 <swisstomcat> question regarding preware
Feb 09 19:26:14 <swisstomcat> if my app is in the app catalog and on precentral, can i choose where to install it from?
Feb 09 19:31:28 <Rick_work> swisstomcat  it's VERY important if you do that to use DIFFERENT app ID's for the precentral and catalog versions.
Feb 09 19:31:41 <swisstomcat> shoot
Feb 09 19:31:46 <swisstomcat> they have the same
Feb 09 19:31:51 <Rick_work> com.mydomain.apps.myapp and com.mydomain.pcapp.myapp
Feb 09 19:31:57 <Rick_work> that's a problem sir.
Feb 09 19:32:19 <destinal> cryptk: I'm thinking of writing a doctor-like tool that will boot the installer uImage and connect to it to send files and commands like doctor does, to set up the dual boot environment and even do backup and restore of the start of flash
Feb 09 19:32:44 <Rick_work> you end up with conflicting version numbers.
Feb 09 19:32:59 <swisstomcat> guess i have to either remove the preware version or change the appid of the homebrew version
Feb 09 19:33:27 <destinal> hmmm, I guess he's gone
Feb 09 19:33:36 <swisstomcat> that's probably why people have problems installing it from the app store if they had the homebrew version already on the device
Feb 09 19:34:18 <Rick_work> exactly
Feb 09 19:34:36 <Rick_work> it's VERY important when you update the beta at precentral that you modify the app id.
Feb 09 19:35:09 <Rick_work> I reccomend com.mydomain.beta.myapp for PC from the very start.  then you have com.mydomain.apps.myapp for the catalog
Feb 09 19:35:33 <swisstomcat> makes sense, thanks
Feb 09 19:37:02 <swisstomcat> i'll remove the homebrew from the repository now that it's available from the app catalog
Feb 09 19:55:34 <bpadalino|work> apparently that buzz.google.com thing doesn't want to even attempt to work in webos :(
Feb 09 20:00:17 <PuffTheMagic_> does google just try to make its over version of every website/webservice in existance?
Feb 09 20:00:25 <PuffTheMagic_> s/over/own/
Feb 09 20:00:26 <infobot> PuffTheMagic_ meant: does google just try to make its own version of every website/webservice in existance?
Feb 09 20:00:45 <mdklein> or buy them out
Feb 09 20:04:30 <bpadalino|work> sounds like it .. big time offenders of not-invented-here syndrome
Feb 09 20:07:03 <destinal> mdklein:  have a sec for me to pick your brain on the hidd stuff?
Feb 09 20:13:21 <mgaffney> anyone have any idea why I'm segfaulting doin the 'make stage' step of the WIDK (http://webos-internals.pastebin.com/m53d52ad4)
Feb 09 20:14:46 <destinal> dBsooner: http://hackaday.com/2010/02/08/guruplug-the-next-generation-of-sheevaplug/  (eSATA version may do some NAS stuff you want for ~$100 but not out yet)
Feb 09 20:16:07 <destinal> mgaffney: have you set the vm.mmap_min_addr = 4096 ?
Feb 09 20:16:38 <destinal> mgaffney: also qemu-arm seems to have issues sometimes, you may try just running it again a few times
Feb 09 20:16:45 <MetaView> hi
Feb 09 20:16:50 <jacques> yeah
Feb 09 20:17:28 <mgaffney> destinal, I ran the install / uninstall instead
Feb 09 20:17:58 <destinal> mgaffney: that should do it, I think, but you may get occasional qemu crashes, I'd try just running your make stage another time or two
Feb 09 20:18:37 <mgaffney> kk
Feb 09 20:19:19 <mgaffney> btw, when I tried to run the other thing (the echo), I got permission denied and if I look I see qemu-arm-static.sysctl.conf with the vm.mmap_min_addr = 4096
Feb 09 20:20:16 <destinal> yeah, that's why the install / uninstall, it was easier than having someone su - and echo that line and restart, but that should do it
Feb 09 20:20:31 <destinal> s/restart/restart procps/
Feb 09 20:20:31 <infobot> destinal meant: yeah, that's why the install / uninstall, it was easier than having someone su - and echo that line and restart procps, but that should do it
Feb 09 20:20:58 <mgaffney> so it's fine if that file has 4097 in it ?
Feb 09 20:21:20 <bpadalino|work> i set mine to 0
Feb 09 20:22:10 <destinal> any low-ish number works.  0 works, but it unfortunately also puts you at risk if someone compromises a null pointer dereference vuln
Feb 09 20:22:17 <mdklein> destinal: sure
Feb 09 20:23:49 <mgaffney> s/monkeys/turkeys/
Feb 09 20:23:58 <mgaffney> dang
Feb 09 20:24:04 <mgaffney> s/ur/um/
Feb 09 20:24:14 <mgaffney> I guess you have to subscribe for that service :(
Feb 09 20:24:27 <destinal> mgaffney: heh, an expression that doesn't result in a change to your last sentence won't cause infobot to say the correction
Feb 09 20:24:46 <mgaffney> s/guess/think/
Feb 09 20:24:47 <infobot> mgaffney meant: I think you have to subscribe for that service :(
Feb 09 20:25:17 <destinal> s/o/0/g
Feb 09 20:25:18 <infobot> destinal meant: mgaffney: heh, an expressi0n that d0esn't result in a change t0 y0ur last sentence w0n't cause inf0b0t t0 say the c0rrecti0n
Feb 09 20:25:26 <mgaffney> s/s\/guess\/think/I am a stupid bot/
Feb 09 20:25:41 <mgaffney> s/s\/guess\/think/I am a stupid bot/g
Feb 09 20:25:49 <mgaffney> guess it doesn't handle escaping :)
Feb 09 20:26:00 <mgaffney> s/)/(/
Feb 09 20:26:00 <infobot> mgaffney meant: guess it doesn't handle escaping :(
Feb 09 20:26:15 <mgaffney> woot
Feb 09 20:27:09 <destinal> mdklein: ok, so /usr/lib/libhidqemukeypad.so as an example
Feb 09 20:27:13 <destinal> from the emulator
Feb 09 20:27:26 <mgaffney> sweet, looks like I got to the next library, thanks destinal
Feb 09 20:29:02 <destinal> mdklein:   $ nm libhidqemukeypad.so  | egrep ' (D|T) '
Feb 09 20:29:02 <destinal> 00001768 D PluginTable
Feb 09 20:30:11 <mdklein> k
Feb 09 20:31:11 <destinal> mdklein:  This PluginTable symbol appears to be a struct of some kind that contains six functions (pointers to them I'd assume).  I'm trying to figure out how to use them with my own wrapper that dynamically loads them, to start  (I haven't really done anything like this before)
Feb 09 20:34:05 <rwhitby> morning
Feb 09 20:34:17 <destinal> rwhitby: morning
Feb 09 20:34:22 <swisstomcat> hi rwhitby
Feb 09 20:34:50 <mdklein> :-/ hrm, i'll poke around, not thinking of a great way right now, but we'll see
Feb 09 20:35:43 <tmzt> plugins? what kind?
Feb 09 20:37:30 <destinal> tmzt: the plugins that hidd loads to read the hardware and generate events
Feb 09 20:37:51 <destinal> keyboard, touchscreen, accelerometer, ambient light sensor, proximity sensor, etc
Feb 09 20:38:34 <tmzt> I see
Feb 09 20:41:06 <destinal> mdklein: I know how to use dlopen, dlsym, etc but I don't know how to cast the result correctly, read the pointers, and call them, or exactly what to call them with
Feb 09 20:41:34 <destinal> fortunately they should be really simple to RE, but I'm a total novice at reverse engineering (trying to improve that)
Feb 09 20:41:39 <jacques> morning rwhitby
Feb 09 20:43:18 <destinal> tmzt: the wrapper has no real purpose but to be an extra debug harness for plugins we write later and to prove we know how the plugins are being called (ie we can reproduce what the hidd side does)
Feb 09 20:44:15 <tmzt> why did they use this hidd anyway?
Feb 09 20:45:14 <destinal> tmzt: they wrote this hidd to provide a layer of abstraction away from hardware into their services architecture.  luna can run on lots of different hardware with hidd calling its plugins which do the heavy lifting
Feb 09 20:45:51 <debilater> rwhitby: would you mind setting up a build Makefile for stella and putting it into testing feed? first version is ready I also made a wiki page about it: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Stella - thanks
Feb 09 20:45:54 <tmzt> why doesn't luna call them, just to out of process the select loop?
Feb 09 20:45:56 <destinal> also other software (including SDL) can talk to hidd as well so there's not an exclusive lock on hardware
Feb 09 20:46:27 <Rick_work> oh oh stella  GOOD GOOD GOOD..
Feb 09 20:46:43 <tmzt> as for X, maybe we should just port Xephyr
Feb 09 20:46:58 <tmzt> seems simpler for the kind of interface (not hardware) exposed
Feb 09 20:47:00 <rwhitby> debilater: do you want to take a first crack at it?  just add it under preware/build.git/unreleased/stella/Makefile and copy the Makefile from one of the other games.  I'll take a look at it when you're ready.
Feb 09 20:47:20 <debilater> rwhitby: ok I'll do that
Feb 09 20:47:22 <tmzt> it requires it's own pixmap for the front buffer
Feb 09 20:47:25 <tmzt> though
Feb 09 20:47:50 <tmzt> then we can become a hidd client
Feb 09 20:47:53 <debilater> rwhitby: but I need a beer first, this was too much work :)
Feb 09 20:48:20 <destinal> tmzt: so just look at the SDL patch and access the framebuffer the same way SDL does?
Feb 09 20:48:34 <tmzt> if tmo/att would offer a fair price on voice+data I might just get a pixi
Feb 09 20:48:38 <tmzt> yeah
Feb 09 20:48:56 <tmzt> treat sdl like a X server and allocate the fron buffer from it
Feb 09 20:49:05 <tmzt> instead of from an X server
Feb 09 20:49:12 <tmzt> simpler port than xorg
Feb 09 20:49:37 <tmzt> hmm, I foget if gsm pixi is out
Feb 09 20:50:03 <tmzt> the keyboard is tiny though
Feb 09 20:52:13 <destinal> tmzt: you really want pre anyway probaby, the pixi graphics support isn't all there yet
Feb 09 20:53:45 <tmzt> ati2.0 has hope of being open
Feb 09 20:53:50 <tmzt> sgx really doesn't
Feb 09 20:59:39 <destinal> oh, is the pixi ati?
Feb 09 21:00:19 <destinal> I haven't even looked at it much tbh (other than to note that palm's support isn't ready yet)
Feb 09 21:05:16 <rwhitby> So if seems that the app catalog feeds have a field for compatible devices (Pre, Pixi) now.
Feb 09 21:07:33 <debilater> rwhitby: does the package build Makefile require the compile instructions?
Feb 09 21:09:34 <rwhitby> debilater: we have two options.  eventually, build.git and cross-compile.git will be merged, and the widk packages will be built by the autobuilder.  until we get that set up, it's fine to include the binaries in the source repo (i.e. in games/stella.git/binaries/, just like in some of the other games repos).
Feb 09 21:10:34 <rwhitby> as long as the binary is built automatically in the source repo using the widk, then we're covered from a licensing point of view.
Feb 09 21:13:37 <debilater> rwhitby: the other apps are building the whole directory structure in that makefile, so is the postinst script not used?
Feb 09 21:14:23 <rwhitby> debilater: I don't quite get your meaning there.
Feb 09 21:16:29 <PuffTheMagic_> debilater: an sdl game could get away with out a postinst
Feb 09 21:18:01 <debilater> rwhitby: I wrote a postinst which creates for example /media/internal/stella/config/ and the Makefile for the package (as I have seen in vba) does the same
Feb 09 21:18:08 <jacques> Talladega Nights, $0.99, by Samuel Noonan: Twenty-plus hilarious audio clips from the film Talladega Nights.
Feb 09 21:18:46 <rwhitby> debilater: yes, you will need a postinst to create a dir under /media/internal, cause the ipkg basic install can only affect under /media/cryptofs/apps/
Feb 09 21:19:19 <debilater> rwhitby: ok nonworking/stella/Makefile first shot committed
Feb 09 21:19:25 <jacques> so now you can take audio clips from a movie and sell them? I guess that's "fair use" ?
Feb 09 21:20:17 <sugardave> jacques: the sounds are free, it's the player that's worth money ;)
Feb 09 21:20:38 <jacques> sugardave: aah, OK  ;-)
Feb 09 21:22:40 <swisstomcat> jacques: apparently palm doesn't want to check the apps for copyright violations
Feb 09 21:23:39 <jacques> swisstomcat: I don't really blame them. not sure what the solution is
Feb 09 21:24:01 <swisstomcat> inform the copyright holders
Feb 09 21:24:04 <swisstomcat> i guess
Feb 09 21:24:27 <swisstomcat> but palm could reject the app because of evident copyright problems
Feb 09 21:24:51 <jacques> http://forums.precentral.net/general-webos-chat/229649-webos-1-4-due-2-15-a.html
Feb 09 21:25:59 <jacques> every day I like to pick the crappiest app, and today it was that
Feb 09 21:26:28 <swisstomcat> i have an app with sounds too
Feb 09 21:26:33 <swisstomcat> and pictures
Feb 09 21:26:38 <swisstomcat> over 10k downloads :)
Feb 09 21:32:01 <rwhitby> swisstomcat: did you get a copyright release from the animals?
Feb 09 21:32:15 <jacques> or the owners of the animals?  ;-)
Feb 09 21:32:25 <swisstomcat> rwhitby: they're public domain and from my own sources (with approval)
Feb 09 21:32:41 <swisstomcat> didn't ask the animals tho :)
Feb 09 21:32:46 <jacques> :-|
Feb 09 21:33:10 <swisstomcat> i should make an app like that that uses facebook profile pics
Feb 09 21:33:29 <rwhitby> debilater: I'll be able to take a look at it in about 1.5 hours time
Feb 09 21:33:48 <jacques> swisstomcat: your app is probably very useful for entertaining small children
Feb 09 21:34:07 <debilater> rwhitby: ok
Feb 09 21:34:19 <swisstomcat> jacques: yeah, that's its target market
Feb 09 21:34:22 <jacques> I just don't see the use case for the Talladega Nights app
Feb 09 21:34:32 <swisstomcat> make a quick buck?
Feb 09 21:34:48 <jacques> that's the business case, not use case
Feb 09 21:34:57 <jacques> :-D
Feb 09 21:35:21 <swisstomcat> hope no one buys it
Feb 09 21:35:50 <swisstomcat> otherwise i'll make a "hear rwhitby fart" app and sell it for ten bucks
Feb 09 21:35:59 <swisstomcat> :D
Feb 09 21:36:07 <jacques> as with any spam, it survives because some ppl buy it - I blame those ppl
Feb 09 21:36:28 <swisstomcat> i could call it art .. and art is expensive
Feb 09 21:36:47 <jacques> swisstomcat: just make a hear rwhitby talk app - lots of american chicks would probably buy it
Feb 09 21:37:09 <jacques> of course, they could download the palmcast for free
Feb 09 21:37:17 <swisstomcat> hehe
Feb 09 21:38:37 <jacques> I'm surprised nobody has made an "I'm rich" app for webos yet
Feb 09 21:39:43 <mgaffney> so what input can we get right now with the widk?
Feb 09 21:40:07 <jacques> mgaffney: touchscreen, keyboard, accelerometer
Feb 09 21:40:18 <jacques> not microphone AFAIK
Feb 09 21:40:21 <sugardave> jacques: dammit!  you have ruined my retirement plan!
Feb 09 21:40:26 <swisstomcat> that would be cool
Feb 09 21:40:37 <swisstomcat> microphone access
Feb 09 21:40:39 <swisstomcat> camera?
Feb 09 21:40:53 <mgaffney> jacques, so enough to make most games then eh?
Feb 09 21:40:55 <jacques> maybe light and proximity sensors with a bit more work
Feb 09 21:41:08 <jacques> mgaffney: yep
Feb 09 21:41:27 <mgaffney> are they available directly from SDL or is there another lib that we have to use?
Feb 09 21:41:43 <jacques> touchscreen, keyboard, accelerometer directly from SDL
Feb 09 21:42:02 <mgaffney> ooh, cool.
Feb 09 21:42:02 <jacques> light and proximity sensors would require something additional
Feb 09 21:42:14 <mgaffney> as they're not a standard api?
Feb 09 21:42:59 <jacques> that's probably why palm didn't patch them into SDL, yes
Feb 09 21:43:25 <swisstomcat> if the microphone would work, you could do ocarina-style apps
Feb 09 21:43:31 <jacques> you might be able to get those last two by reading files in /sys
Feb 09 21:43:49 <jacques> there is some info on the wiki (somewhere)
Feb 09 21:44:04 <jacques> yeah microphone and camera would be cool
Feb 09 21:44:21 <jacques> I wanna do augmented reality
Feb 09 21:45:09 <swisstomcat> yeah, that'd be cool
Feb 09 21:46:44 <swisstomcat> g'night all
Feb 09 21:47:16 <jacques> `night
Feb 09 21:48:30 <mgaffney> jacques, is there an app in the git repo that shows off using accelerometer / touchscreen well?
Feb 09 21:50:30 <jacques> mgaffney: the touchscreen appears to SDL apps as a mouse, so lots of apps use it. the accelerometer appears as a joystick, I'm not sure if there are any users in git right now
Feb 09 21:50:59 <mgaffney> jacques, aah, cool. that'll be fun to mess with then :)
Feb 09 21:51:37 <jacques> there is an accelerometer demo in git, but it's from before SDL
Feb 09 21:52:58 <egaudet_work> supertux and classic invaders both use the sdl joystick (accelerometer)
Feb 09 21:58:28 <jacques> egaudet_work: thanks! I was hoping somebody would correct me
Feb 09 22:06:47 <debilater> rwhitby: I'll go to sleep now, please drop me a mail about the makefile, thx
Feb 09 22:06:58 <debilater> n8
Feb 09 22:07:47 <zsoc> So who is the fileindexer guru?
Feb 09 22:09:12 <egaudet_work> you
Feb 09 22:09:38 <zsoc> egaudet_work: crap. well then, r&d time i suppose...
Feb 09 22:10:14 <zsoc> rwhitby: how do you feel about binary patching the fileindexer?
Feb 09 22:16:06 <zsoc> So i accidentally just ran the Palm fileindexer on my host box, and it did nothing, except change the preferences of gnome-terminal to default D:
Feb 09 22:17:08 <mdklein> the horror!
Feb 09 22:18:14 <zsoc> indeed
Feb 09 22:18:25 <zsoc|away> although now i'm super curious as to why
Feb 09 22:20:47 <mdklein> no clue, I'd think that it should have at most touched your /var/luna/data/mediadb.db3 :-/
Feb 09 22:47:57 <zsoc> I wish I knew anything about anything.
Feb 09 22:48:33 <zsoc> How do I figure out how my fileindexer hacks are working out? I can delete mediadb.db3, start the indexer, and then export tables?
Feb 09 22:48:35 <zsoc> or something like that?
Feb 09 22:48:49 * zsoc isn't an sql guy
Feb 09 22:51:28 <mdklein> quick and dirty method?  strings /var/luna/data/mediadb.db3|grep [filename you want to check on]
Feb 09 22:52:14 <zsoc> mdklein: ah, i can strings a database? fun...
Feb 09 22:52:37 <zsoc> hm... i just realized i have no flac files to test this with!
Feb 09 22:52:38 <zsoc> ha
Feb 09 22:56:04 <zsoc> anyone have hex editor experience to point me towards a good tutorial?
Feb 09 22:58:05 <zsoc> also, vim/xxd ftw
Feb 09 23:10:25 <rwhitby> zsoc: emacs hexl-mode
Feb 09 23:11:37 <zsoc> rwhitby: i discovered xxd too soon :P also ghex isn't terrible... gui has it's minor advantages.
Feb 09 23:11:43 <zsoc> in other news, i think this might have worked
Feb 09 23:13:15 <zsoc> wow flac is huge lol
Feb 09 23:15:33 <mdklein> are you just patching the binary to look at more extensions?
Feb 09 23:15:44 <zsoc> mdklein: yep
Feb 09 23:16:12 <zsoc> mdklein: i'm _hoping_ it's so simple :P
Feb 09 23:16:29 <mdklein> I suppose you could go that way... that database isn't super complicated, it wouldn't take much to just reimplement it either
Feb 09 23:16:48 <zsoc> mdklein: er... well i mean i already have the libs building in the widk... this just seems obvious than to make an entirely new opensource file picker
Feb 09 23:17:06 <zsoc> mdklein: although i do believe we need an opensource fileindexer and mediaserver
Feb 09 23:17:24 <zsoc> mdklein: and i have the 'framework' of an sdl video player (for unsupported video types... an idea at least)
Feb 09 23:17:31 <mdklein> if I get some bored time, I might have to take a look
Feb 09 23:17:53 <zsoc> let me know, i'd like to think i know the media framework of webos decently well
Feb 09 23:52:13 <zsoc> bah segfaults galore
Feb 10 00:30:56 <zsoc> annnnddd i'm halfway there
Feb 10 00:32:18 * zsoc is having a WHE moment
Feb 10 00:35:44 <zsoc> How would I cp a group of files, keeping relative symlinks?
Feb 10 00:36:08 <zsoc> ie, bin1.so bin1.so.1 and bin1.so.1.4 (latter being the real one, other 2 symlinking down the line)
Feb 10 00:36:39 <zsoc> or can i not cp symlinks?
Feb 10 00:36:41 <zsoc> or can i not just google this...
Feb 10 00:36:59 <zsoc> ye[p
Feb 10 00:38:32 <jacques> cp -a    ?
Feb 10 00:39:21 <zsoc> jacques: i think it's -P, but turns out i was using scp for it anyway, which doesn't work. even -r just blindly follows the symlinks :P
Feb 10 00:40:11 <jacques> argh
Feb 10 00:40:24 <zsoc> or i could tar the data
Feb 10 00:40:27 <zsoc> and untar at the other end
Feb 10 00:40:40 <jacques> I was just about to suggest that
Feb 10 00:40:56 <jacques> this is some clever thing where you tar to a pipe and untar out a pipe on the other end
Feb 10 00:41:00 <zsoc> i wonder if there's a command i could pipe into bash to do that...
Feb 10 00:41:00 <zsoc> LOL
Feb 10 00:41:04 <jacques> but I always just make a tarball and xfer it
Feb 10 00:41:16 <zsoc> you owe me a beer :p
Feb 10 00:41:56 <jacques> bud light?
Feb 10 00:42:37 <zsoc> ew :P
Feb 10 00:42:41 <zsoc> god i love linux
Feb 10 00:42:43 <jacques> lol
Feb 10 00:42:55 <zsoc> seriously, this is full of genius
Feb 10 00:43:17 <jacques> which part?
Feb 10 00:43:34 <zsoc> just in general... symlinking... ease of scp and tar from command line
Feb 10 00:43:52 <zsoc> I sware it's 242348 times quicker to tar/scp/untar something from command line than any other method i can imagine
Feb 10 00:44:00 <dick-richardson> I used to cat an mp3 across an ssh tunnel to stdin on mplayer when I had my n900
Feb 10 00:44:14 <zsoc> dick-richardson: now you're just showing me up with eliteness
Feb 10 00:44:17 <zsoc> did that seriously work?
Feb 10 00:44:28 <tlp> hah
Feb 10 00:44:32 <jacques> sure it just compressed the dynamic range a bit
Feb 10 00:44:35 <zsoc> lol
Feb 10 00:44:37 <jacques> ;-)
Feb 10 00:44:40 <dick-richardson> zsoc: it worked, and I wasn't trying to be l33t - I just love messing around
Feb 10 00:44:41 <zsoc> i am such a n00b
Feb 10 00:45:24 <jacques> heading out from work - back ina bit
Feb 10 00:45:37 <egaudet> btw it is cp -a (which of course does not exist with scp)
Feb 10 00:46:30 <zsoc> egaudet: ty for clarification
Feb 10 01:05:02 <rwhitby> zsoc: (cd first-dir ; tar cf - .) | (cd second-dir ; tar xvf -)
Feb 10 01:05:14 <ivanst> oooo...
Feb 10 01:05:27 <ivanst> rwhitby++ for elite bash power :-)
Feb 10 01:05:46 <zsoc> rwhitby: excellent
Feb 10 01:05:54 <rwhitby> the second cd can even be an ssh if you want the untar to happen on a remote machinve
Feb 10 01:06:08 <zsoc> i assumed such a beastly command existed :)
Feb 10 01:06:14 <zsoc> we need a version of infobot that tracks karma
Feb 10 01:06:29 <rwhitby> So, the Palm 2G Update ....
Feb 10 01:07:34 <zsoc> seems... necessary?
Feb 10 01:10:47 <rwhitby> I'm just thinking of how they are distributing it. They seems to be doing more and more of update-as-app stuff.
Feb 10 01:10:58 <zsoc> OOohohh, yeah that's a little odd
Feb 10 01:13:38 <zsoc> Also, I need to build a new typefind plugin, which I'm not thrilled about. It will have to be an updated gst-base hacked with palm's patch included
Feb 10 01:16:46 <zsoc> rwhitby: hmm... so my widk gstreamer/Makefile pulls the source and patch from the opensource.palm.com website... what's the easiest way to edit that patch before application? I would feel odd applying a patch to the patch... can I ditch grabbing the patch from the server and just include an edited version of it locally? like gstreamer/files/ or something?
Feb 10 01:32:33 <rwhitby> zsoc: apply a second patch after it
Feb 10 01:32:47 <rwhitby> store the second patch in a patches subdir in the widk repo
Feb 10 01:36:22 * zsoc boggles
Feb 10 01:36:25 <zsoc> ok got it
Feb 10 01:36:55 <zsoc> why in the world would palm implement tagging support for flac and ogg and not typefind support? that doesn't make sense to me
Feb 10 01:38:16 <rwhitby> zsoc: don't patch the patch, just apply a second patch to the source
Feb 10 01:39:05 <zsoc> rwhitby: yes i understand now :)
Feb 10 01:43:49 <zsoc> hmmm.. i'm so tempted to just remove the ifdefs... but i'm sure that will break something
Feb 10 01:46:49 <zsoc> rwhitby: at the risk of sounding like an imbecile... it seems instead of actually removing things from this plugin, they just sprinkled some "#ifdef MIME_TYPE_SUPPORTED_FOR_PALM_DOT_FIVE #else #endif"'s.... so does that mean I need to define/set to 1 MIME_TYPE_SUPPORTED_FOR_PALM_DOT_FIVE somewhere in the Makefile?
Feb 10 01:47:15 <tmzt> you need a -D on the CCFLAGS
Feb 10 01:47:24 <zsoc> tmzt: spell it out for me?
Feb 10 01:47:41 <tmzt> make vars don't get passed to cpp
Feb 10 01:48:21 <tmzt> you have to actually put the define on the command line like CCFLAGS="-DMIME_TYPE...l
Feb 10 01:48:24 <tmzt> "
Feb 10 01:48:53 <tmzt> I think it's CCFLAGS it might be CPPFLAGS though
Feb 10 01:49:45 <zsoc> right now the make line is "( cd build/src ; ${SB2} make && ${SB2} make install )"
Feb 10 01:50:12 <jacques> or you could do the #define in the source, but in the make is better
Feb 10 01:50:20 <zsoc> So it would be something like "( cd build/src ; ${SB2} CCFLAGS="-DMIME_TYPE_SUPPORTED_FOR_PALM_DOT_FIVE" make && ${SB2} make install )"
Feb 10 01:50:30 <zsoc> and that wont overwrite other CCFLAGS, just add that one, right?
Feb 10 01:59:18 <zsoc> rwhitby: cat patches/patchname.patch | patch -d build/src -p0 <-- seem right?
Feb 10 01:59:30 <zsoc> after the other patch applies, of course
Feb 10 02:01:42 <zsoc> holy crap it works
Feb 10 02:01:43 <zsoc> so far
Feb 10 02:02:21 <darkmagister> hi i have i question .... How i can translate preware ?
Feb 10 02:03:03 <zsoc> darkmagister: what language?
Feb 10 02:03:36 <darkmagister> italian
Feb 10 02:04:16 <egaudet> zsoc, why cat the patch?
Feb 10 02:04:16 <darkmagister> i dont find any info about it
Feb 10 02:04:26 <egaudet> just use -i <patchfile>
Feb 10 02:05:00 <zsoc> egaudet: oh. well the patch worked my way too :p er, i think, i mean it applied succesfully
Feb 10 02:05:28 <egaudet> it does work your way just -odd-
Feb 10 02:05:28 <zsoc> aannndd broken! http://webos.pastebin.com/d1dec2099
Feb 10 02:05:48 <zsoc> is my flag causing that? should I be trying to pass it outside of the ${SB2}?
Feb 10 02:06:05 <darkmagister> ...
Feb 10 02:07:11 <zsoc> darkmagister: er.. you could follow the footsteps of others? the commits for french and german support are in the preware git (git.webos-internals.org)
Feb 10 02:07:22 <zsoc> darkmagister: there may be other official ways of doing it, you can hang around for an answer
Feb 10 02:07:58 <egaudet> you can't pass the macro outside of SB2 unless you are running make command outside of SB2
Feb 10 02:09:00 <zsoc> egaudet: er... i don't want to _disagree_, but i have to pass ldflags outside of it.... is that because ld is running on the host in this case?
Feb 10 02:09:22 <egaudet> what do you mean you have to pass ldflags outside of it?
Feb 10 02:09:36 <darkmagister> ok now i see the git repo ... And start to traslate after maybe i can contact preware programmer to informing of my work
Feb 10 02:09:48 <darkmagister> thanks
Feb 10 02:11:19 <zsoc> egaudet: ( cd build/src ; LDFLAGS="-Wl,-rpath,/usr/local/lib -L/usr/local/lib" ${SB2} ./configure --prefix=/usr/local --disable-static --disable-dependency-tracking --disable-valgrind --disable-examples )
Feb 10 02:11:23 <zsoc> that's the only way everything stages properly
Feb 10 02:11:31 <zsoc> anyway, that part works
Feb 10 02:11:54 <zsoc> Any idea why this flag breaks glib genmarshal? i verified again it works without it
Feb 10 02:13:33 <egaudet> when you set LDFLAGS shouldn't matter, it's just setting in the environment.  as for the flag I don't know, check what the macro is pulling in
Feb 10 02:13:42 <egaudet> is it needed in any c files too?
Feb 10 02:13:53 <egaudet> CFLAGS
Feb 10 02:15:24 <Darkmagister> another question i have installed wirc on my pre ... can i open this channel by default?
Feb 10 02:16:21 <zsoc> Darkmagister: you can set /j #webos-internals as a join command in advanced options
Feb 10 02:16:46 <zsoc> egaudet: i honestly wish i understand c/cc/cxx flags :/
Feb 10 02:17:27 <zsoc> s/understand/understood
Feb 10 02:17:30 <egaudet> zsoc, they are simply environment variables
Feb 10 02:17:37 <zsoc> i mean the differences between them
Feb 10 02:17:43 <egaudet> as convention, used to define flags to gcc/g++
Feb 10 02:17:58 <Darkmagister> woooow thanks
Feb 10 02:18:16 <egaudet> CFLAGS = C, CXXFLAGS = C++
Feb 10 02:18:59 <Darkmagister> can you repeat me please the link of git repo ?
Feb 10 02:19:18 <zsoc> egaudet: well there's no C++, so... CFLAGS vs CCFLAGS?
Feb 10 02:19:25 <zsoc> Darkmagister: git.webos-internals.org
Feb 10 02:20:13 <egaudet> I don't know what CCFLAGS is
Feb 10 02:20:19 <zsoc> ...
Feb 10 02:20:27 <egaudet> i've never seen it used
Feb 10 02:20:30 <zsoc> then why am i defining it and wondering why things are crashing?
Feb 10 02:20:47 <zsoc> i must have got confused because CC= the compiler
Feb 10 02:21:16 <zsoc> <tmzt> you need a -D on the CCFLAGS <--- or i got confused because he said it lol
Feb 10 02:21:18 <Darkmagister> thanks now i go to sleep by see ya
Feb 10 02:21:30 <egaudet> hehe
Feb 10 02:21:40 <egaudet> yea it's CFLAGS no CCFLAGS
Feb 10 02:22:12 <zsoc> egaudet: thank you for your patience
Feb 10 02:24:32 <zsoc> ugh similar error u.u
Feb 10 02:25:22 <willwill> cape
Feb 10 02:25:27 <willwill> whoops, wrong chat
Feb 10 02:26:38 <egaudet> u.u
Feb 10 02:26:40 * zsoc puts on his cape
Feb 10 02:26:51 <zsoc> egaudet: i'm defining this in the source, sue me :p
Feb 10 02:27:21 <egaudet> CFLAGS="-DMACRO" {SB2} make
Feb 10 02:27:28 <PuffTheMagic_> C = C CC = C++ CXX = C&C++
Feb 10 02:28:19 <zsoc> egaudet: wait, now you're telling me to define it outside of sb2?
Feb 10 02:28:22 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic_: thank you :)
Feb 10 02:28:34 <bpadalino> i always wanted to have a -DMARCO end up with a #define POLO somewhere
Feb 10 02:29:00 <PuffTheMagic_> zsoc: CXXFLAGS=${CFLAGS}
Feb 10 02:29:15 <zsoc> -DMARCATION ? :p
Feb 10 02:29:18 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic_: i'm sorry?
Feb 10 02:29:21 <bpadalino> that's a good one too
Feb 10 02:29:27 <zsoc> I feel like there's an answer somewhere in the last 10 lines, but I don't understand any of it
Feb 10 02:29:41 <zsoc> s/any of it/the part with the answer in it/
Feb 10 02:29:42 <infobot> zsoc meant: I feel like there's an answer somewhere in the last 10 lines, but I don't understand the part with the answer in it
Feb 10 02:29:44 <egaudet> I've never seen CCFLAGS though
Feb 10 02:30:05 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic_: there's no C++ in this code, so what difference does it make?
Feb 10 02:30:26 <zsoc> egaudet: and what is this macro you speak of defining?
Feb 10 02:30:35 <egaudet> your macro
Feb 10 02:30:45 <egaudet> whatever macro you wanted to define
Feb 10 02:30:52 <egaudet> (you are defining a preprocessor macro)
Feb 10 02:31:02 <zsoc> egaudet: you just told me not to define it outside of sb2
Feb 10 02:31:10 <egaudet> doesn't matter it's just an env variable
Feb 10 02:31:17 <egaudet> that will get used by the makefile
Feb 10 02:31:17 <zsoc> oh
Feb 10 02:31:24 <zsoc> well blarney
Feb 10 02:31:24 <egaudet> it's not magic
Feb 10 02:31:30 <zsoc> Yeah I get it now
Feb 10 02:31:36 <zsoc> I tend to get things _after_ they are made obvious :p
Feb 10 02:31:50 <egaudet> it just ends up as gcc -DMACRO -other -options -for -whatever -the -hell -you -need
Feb 10 02:32:42 <zsoc> but when I did it that way, I didn't see -DMACRO in the make output....
Feb 10 02:33:06 <zsoc> probably because i used CCFLAGS instead of CFLAGS
Feb 10 02:34:22 <mgaffney> anyone messed with SDL in eclipse? I can't seem to run sdl apps in eclipse but they run fine from the command line.
Feb 10 02:36:46 <zsoc> egaudet: hm... still not showing up during make....
Feb 10 02:37:31 <egaudet> sorry set it in configure
Feb 10 02:37:42 <zsoc> OH
Feb 10 02:37:56 <zsoc> god i'm such a huge idiot, this is all stuff i should know by now
Feb 10 02:38:10 <rwhitby> for anyone who is interested, a completely untested Stella package is in the testing feed.
Feb 10 02:39:11 <zsoc> rwhitby: oooooo sexy
Feb 10 02:41:16 <rwhitby> oops, forgot the prerm.  grab it again if you've already grabbed it
Feb 10 02:42:15 <zsoc> rwhitby: explains the md5 mismatch lol
Feb 10 02:42:26 <rwhitby> hang on a sec, another fix coming
Feb 10 02:42:29 <zsoc> kk
Feb 10 02:42:46 <zsoc> at least we know that check works
Feb 10 02:43:14 <rwhitby> ok, try now
Feb 10 02:44:48 <zsoc> wow
Feb 10 02:45:04 <zsoc> did he make this rom picker? or was it written in sdl?
Feb 10 02:45:29 <rwhitby> dunno, I haven't run it.  I just finished the packaging.
Feb 10 02:45:30 <zsoc> and it has a whole directory searcher
Feb 10 02:45:33 <zsoc> this is super sexy
Feb 10 02:45:41 <zsoc> install it :P
Feb 10 02:46:27 <zsoc> settings/options menu is crazy robust
Feb 10 02:46:55 <zsoc> hmm, now i just need a rom lol
Feb 10 02:47:15 <rwhitby> wiki page has some free ones
Feb 10 02:47:40 <zsoc> how ethical
Feb 10 02:48:51 <zsoc> fancy
Feb 10 02:48:55 <zsoc> i approve
Feb 10 02:49:28 <rwhitby> I'll wait for debilator to come online before announcing anything, in case he wants any last-minute tweaks.
Feb 10 02:50:23 <zsoc> hm... i botched the patch
Feb 10 02:51:01 * rwhitby bbl
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Feb 10 02:59:58 2010