**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 12 02:59:56 2010 Feb 12 03:19:12 VincentLaw: ping Feb 12 03:22:28 jacques: gotta get something for what you paid for Feb 12 03:25:37 heh Feb 12 03:29:02 that's about the size of Xsdl when stripped (not counting shared libs) Feb 12 03:38:29 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Auto-Update_Patch_Technology Feb 12 03:54:17 dBsooner, ping Feb 12 03:55:37 rwhitby: we should probably recommend to someone at palm (whoever has chanserv access to #webos) to remove the +R (err +q now) Feb 12 03:55:55 since the technique the spammers were using is dead now Feb 12 03:59:16 rwhitby: ka6sox-work: but uh, quite a lot of webos is closed source Feb 12 03:59:53 how can we call any device based on it an open phone?: Feb 12 04:02:27 destinal-home, even though some of the code is closed source we are not prohibited from revising and extending the functionality. Feb 12 04:02:43 the nslu2 had proprietary things in it too. Feb 12 04:02:51 but it was opened up. Feb 12 04:03:27 well, I guess that's true, it's not crypto-locked and maintained by an hacker-hostile company, and we can make it more open by the dayt Feb 12 04:03:30 s/dayt/day/ Feb 12 04:03:31 destinal-home meant: well, I guess that's true, it's not crypto-locked and maintained by an hacker-hostile company, and we can make it more open by the day Feb 12 04:04:04 but what we have now is far from totally open, it feels a little disingenuous Feb 12 04:04:29 what WebOS Internals does is OPEN it up. Feb 12 04:04:46 ok, ok, I'll buy it Feb 12 04:04:47 :) Feb 12 04:04:50 the work of the community is to open up the phone. Feb 12 04:05:24 we didn't say " Palm: Smart. Open. Phones. Feb 12 04:05:26 " Feb 12 04:06:15 zsoc: pong Feb 12 04:07:26 destinal-home: I wish I knew how to disable the anti-feature in ubuntu where every time I typo a command, it delays while searching for something named that in any uninstalled package Feb 12 04:07:57 huh? dunno why I directed that at destinal-home Feb 12 04:08:16 IRC has a mind of its own. Feb 12 04:08:20 :D Feb 12 04:08:36 so does the shell in ubuntu and I want to kill it Feb 12 04:09:23 set | wc -l Feb 12 04:09:24 8449 Feb 12 04:09:46 yes, I really need ALMOST 10,000 LINES OF SHELL CODE in my environment Feb 12 04:09:50 wow Feb 12 04:10:05 did these ppl come from ms ? Feb 12 04:10:35 tking@flik:~$ set | wc -L Feb 12 04:10:35 1169 Feb 12 04:10:58 set | wc -l Feb 12 04:10:58 74 Feb 12 04:11:00 gentoo Feb 12 04:11:05 tking@flik:~$ set | wc -l Feb 12 04:11:05 7405 Feb 12 04:11:11 thats more like it. Feb 12 04:11:24 yep Feb 12 04:11:35 but that's actually only a small part of it Feb 12 04:11:44 most is tab completion Feb 12 04:11:50 set|wc -l Feb 12 04:11:51 102 Feb 12 04:11:53 F12 Feb 12 04:12:23 this is Hardy though. Feb 12 04:12:23 less packages to deal with. Feb 12 04:13:44 destinal-home: there's still time if you've got a better tag-line suggestion ;-) Feb 12 04:14:33 jacques: i think the apt package is called 'command-not-found' :) Feb 12 04:14:34 ka6sox-work: you know what that 1169 is above? apparently -L prints length of longest line Feb 12 04:15:34 rwhitby: I made a lot way back when. Mine got 2nd place so I'm pretty happy :) Feb 12 04:16:11 sudo apt-get remove command-not-found command-not-found-data Feb 12 04:16:17 dtzWill: THANKS! Feb 12 04:16:28 I didn't know that...quite useful. Feb 12 04:17:20 it didn't reduce the size of my environment, but at least typos are fast now Feb 12 04:19:45 back in my day, when we typoed a shell command, it said "command not found" and we LIKED it that way! Feb 12 04:21:19 hola WHE's Feb 12 04:21:25 so I got some phenominal news today Feb 12 04:21:39 and proof that you can indeed make a living by playing with LINUX Feb 12 04:21:56 got a phone call today from a company that wants to hire me to be a LINUX software admin!!! Feb 12 04:22:04 * jacques already knew that. Feb 12 04:22:09 * mdklein_ did too Feb 12 04:22:12 50K/year Feb 12 04:22:25 btw, jacques: 28 here Feb 12 04:22:29 (pre ftw?) Feb 12 04:23:07 VincentLaw: yep, 29 for me Feb 12 04:23:13 and I am almost back to the same point I was before my HD crash with the bootloader! Feb 12 04:23:41 cool Feb 12 04:23:58 it went faster this time because i already knew what I was doing to get to that point Feb 12 04:24:18 nothing that works on the pre yet but hopefully sometime soon... Feb 12 04:25:06 on the upside my ARM Assembly buddy looked at the stock pre bootloader and he thinks he can mod it to make it chainboot into a custom bootloader if you boot it while holding a key down Feb 12 04:25:41 so it could possibly be turn phone off, turn it back on while holding a button and it will chainboot into a second bootloader to multi-boot Feb 12 04:25:51 it's based on lk which there is source for Feb 12 04:25:59 as far as we can tell the stock bootloader does not support multiple OS's Feb 12 04:26:10 there aren't really any secrets on omap anyway Feb 12 04:26:15 this isn't qualcomm :) Feb 12 04:26:17 hmm I haven't heard of lk Feb 12 04:26:26 tmzt: yeah, but it is definitely modified so he is having to look through it and find what is in the stock bootloader from it and what isn't Feb 12 04:26:29 geist wrote it Feb 12 04:26:56 ah nice Feb 12 04:27:17 nice... maybe I should talk with geist a bit then Feb 12 04:27:37 he may be interested in it and should be familiar with alot of the code that is already there Feb 12 04:32:29 cryptk|work: there's already chainboot support in bootie it seems, why not just always do it? Feb 12 04:32:55 I could Feb 12 04:33:06 no patching bootie required for that Feb 12 04:33:10 and add the stock OS into the bootloader I customize and make it the default Feb 12 04:33:12 just make your chainbootable loader Feb 12 04:36:21 there is going to have to be some changes made to locations of things and it will probably require a doctor to make it all work (although a customized one) Feb 12 04:36:43 something to create a new partition possibly Feb 12 04:36:58 unless there is already a boot partition... Feb 12 04:37:05 I need to look more into how the stock bootloader works Feb 12 04:37:05 cryptk|work: there's already a boot partition Feb 12 04:37:15 good stuff Feb 12 04:37:17 I can use that then Feb 12 04:38:37 cryptk|work: I've thought about making a program, call it "Pre Power Tools" or something. make it like the doctor, have it novacom boot the installer image and then novacom in and start driving the shell like doctor does Feb 12 04:38:53 yeah, i can talka bout it a bit Feb 12 04:38:58 except i'm in a wow raid. tanking Feb 12 04:39:02 maybe in an hour or so Feb 12 04:39:07 geist: awesome, I will be here Feb 12 04:39:09 good luck in ICC Feb 12 04:39:21 lol Feb 12 04:39:24 heh, that's saturday Feb 12 04:39:27 doing a TOC run Feb 12 04:39:37 ahh, good luck man Feb 12 04:39:52 http://tkgeisel.com/pics/WoW/ Feb 12 04:41:14 geist: holy crowded interface batman Feb 12 04:42:20 30" screen mang Feb 12 04:43:24 30 inch screen! Holy liquid crystals! Feb 12 04:43:52 geist: Apple cinema display? Feb 12 04:44:00 I have a 32" LCD TV that I sometimes play on Feb 12 04:44:12 usually I play on my 22" though Feb 12 04:44:30 sure you can play on a good 1080p HDTV, but I really like the cinemas Feb 12 04:45:21 I did it on my 50" plasma once, it wasn't the best idea in the world... I use 23" cinema normally with a 20" for IRC windows and web stuff heh Feb 12 04:45:59 nah, a Dell Feb 12 04:46:39 I have a buddy that used to play on a 61" DLP Feb 12 04:46:45 argh Feb 12 04:46:55 xcomp: ?? Feb 12 04:46:55 glibc woes now Feb 12 04:47:08 apple makes gorgeous hardware, but pricey Feb 12 04:47:10 undefined reference to __ctype_tolower_loc Feb 12 04:47:33 i can't seem to solve it :( Feb 12 04:49:13 xcomp: uclibc? Feb 12 04:49:37 LOL Feb 12 04:49:39 So, it seems that we have applications with the same package id and version in both the PreCentral feed and the App Catalog feed. Feb 12 04:49:43 I guess I just needed to vent Feb 12 04:49:56 because I just solved the problem I've been fighting for the past five hours Feb 12 04:49:57 and this is confusing both Preware and the App Catalog client. Feb 12 04:49:59 destinal-home: they also do great service when someone else is paying for it... turned in wifes laptop cause the video card went out... they fixed the video card, replaced the dans and the thermal controller for them, replaced a RAM stick taht tested as bad and even put in a new keyboard because some of the keys were worn Feb 12 04:50:18 some rogue static lib was compiled with a different glibc version Feb 12 04:50:23 I gotta send my mbp in soon, vid card dying Feb 12 04:50:24 xcomp: what was the solution? Feb 12 04:50:34 mdklein_: nvidia? Feb 12 04:50:35 recompile said rogue static lib Feb 12 04:50:37 ya Feb 12 04:51:08 rwhitby: I have seen some apps that have a source of both the app cat and precentral feed... is it confusing it as to where to install it from or what? Feb 12 04:51:50 mdklein_: take it in, they ahve a test they can run on it to see if it is the vid card for sure.... is the screen randomly going black/turning off? Feb 12 04:51:54 yeah Feb 12 04:51:56 that is what my wifes mbp was doing Feb 12 04:51:58 I know about it Feb 12 04:52:00 I have applecare too Feb 12 04:52:16 you won't need apple care for it... nvidia is paying for those Feb 12 04:52:32 my wifes got all fixed up and cost us nothing Feb 12 04:53:43 yah, but in case it's something else Feb 12 04:53:44 hmm, vmware is so easy to use Feb 12 04:53:50 I wish I had known this earlier Feb 12 04:53:50 but I'm pretty sure it's the nvidia card :-p Feb 12 04:55:44 probably is Feb 12 04:55:47 but nvidia said there was no problem Feb 12 04:55:59 so it must not be the card Feb 12 04:56:10 nvidia wouldn't ... lie ?? Feb 12 04:56:44 never Feb 12 04:57:25 haha Feb 12 04:57:48 rwhitby, should I make "Emergency Patch Installer" To ipkg -o install everything in .webosinternals.patches.packages? (Use case: partial/full erase) Feb 12 04:58:31 it is enough of a problem that apple has an external harddrive labeled "NVIDIA Test Kit" with the software used to test them on it, lol Feb 12 04:59:26 egaudet: that sounds close to persistent configurations Feb 12 05:00:32 btw, geist I have no clue what you are and are not allowed to tell me, so if I ask you something that you aren't allowed to say feel free to smack me around a bit, lol Feb 12 05:03:59 good morning Feb 12 05:04:20 good mornin/evening Feb 12 05:05:08 how would I go about removing a patch from the feed? I'm listed as the maintainer of "Enable Forwarding" but that functionality now exists with out the patch. It's obsolete. Feb 12 05:06:49 JackieRipper: what's the exact packageid of the patch? Feb 12 05:07:23 JackieRipper: dBsooner should be able to handle that. Feb 12 05:07:55 rwhitby: owg.webosinternals.patches.messaging-enable-forwarding Feb 12 05:08:11 org, not owg Feb 12 05:10:27 So.... I may just be slow, but why would my SFTP transfered be throttled over WIFI... Feb 12 05:14:52 JayCanuck: so SysToolsMgr is now ESE compatible? Feb 12 05:15:02 yep Feb 12 05:15:49 sweet. We can probably remove the java restart stuff at the end of the postinst now, since the installers now do it. Feb 12 05:16:04 (assuming you're setting the flags in the control file) Feb 12 05:19:12 yep, I set the flags Feb 12 05:34:36 if I do a partial erase on a phone with no carrier service, will I be locked out due to first use app? Feb 12 05:34:59 or activation Feb 12 05:38:56 egaudet: If so, there is always meta-doctor. Feb 12 05:39:05 But I'm not sure. Feb 12 05:39:47 yeah but I wanted to test EPI after a partial erase on my dev phone Feb 12 05:40:10 ahh well I'll just manual remove the patch packages instead of partial erase Feb 12 05:47:11 egaudet: hrm... well if the dev phone didn't run the first use the first time then I wouldn't think it would run it the second time Feb 12 05:48:05 I think it does though, because partial erase makes it Feb 12 05:48:16 partial erase creates the first use app? Feb 12 05:48:31 I would have thought that it was totally disabled on the dev phones Feb 12 05:58:33 I believe partial erase removes the flag file that says that first use has been run Feb 12 05:59:02 hrm... Feb 12 05:59:08 well, there is only one way to find out for sure... Feb 12 05:59:16 if only we had someone with a dev phone that could test it... Feb 12 05:59:18 lol Feb 12 06:00:45 EPI pushed Feb 12 06:01:14 I can verify that the first use app comes upa fter partial erase Feb 12 06:01:15 I've done it before Feb 12 06:01:32 was wondering if there was a trick/way around it but dont' need it anymore :P Feb 12 06:01:59 egaudet: not without doctoring Feb 12 06:02:57 or maybe overlay over where the flag is that says first use has run, then partial erase, let them remove the fake overlay :P Feb 12 06:04:35 So, has anyone tested Preware 0.9.22 from the testing feed? Feb 12 06:04:58 * xcomp fires up the preware Feb 12 06:05:07 is that the one with italian or whatever? Feb 12 06:05:10 if so I am using it Feb 12 06:05:17 oh...that one Feb 12 06:05:31 i didn't update because I didn't know what I'd do with it :) Feb 12 06:05:37 I have the testing feed and I am running the most up to date preware shown, works fine Feb 12 06:06:07 unless it came out in the last 8-10 hours or so Feb 12 06:06:21 cryptk|work: it did Feb 12 06:06:30 0.9.22 with italian added Feb 12 06:06:40 if ti is the italian one, then it works great Feb 12 06:06:42 I have that one Feb 12 06:06:56 nobody else got the white screen? Feb 12 06:07:00 I haven't tested it in the italian translation though (american phone) Feb 12 06:07:03 musta just been me Feb 12 06:07:24 hrm... actually now that you mention it I think I may have gotten a white screen the first time I ran it after update Feb 12 06:07:34 same here Feb 12 06:07:34 can't remember if it was preware or the web browser that white screened though Feb 12 06:07:43 but closing it and re-launching worked fine Feb 12 06:07:48 anyone else who can try it? Feb 12 06:07:57 for me it was what would have been the changelog Feb 12 06:08:15 yeah Feb 12 06:08:18 yes, I swiped the card, relaunched and preware ran (sans changelog) Feb 12 06:11:18 Hi folks. Can anyone give me a bit of help real quick? I'm trying to update my Palm Pre's OS using the instructions on http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:MetaDoctor but webOS Doctor is not recognizing my Pre. I have tried booting to recovery mode but that hasn't made a difference. The only places I'm aware of having deviated from the directions is that I installed the latest version of the SDK (1.3.5) from Palm's si Feb 12 06:11:42 cryptk|work: so I had a bunch of random ideas regarding this Pre Power Tools concept. it should be able to resize partitions, set up dual boot, back up and restore the start of the disk, share out the whole flash disk over USB, turn on usbnet / devmode, Feb 12 06:11:58 destinal-home: I like it Feb 12 06:12:13 would it be a PC only tool? Feb 12 06:12:25 Jeah: can you connect to the pre with novacom? Feb 12 06:12:40 sounds like it could be a USB communication problem Feb 12 06:12:43 I was thinking to start do it like WOSQI and do it in Java and piggyback on the doctor's novacom classes Feb 12 06:12:56 eventually it could be migrated to something open Feb 12 06:12:57 Java would be nice, cross-platform Feb 12 06:13:03 but still java Feb 12 06:13:08 yeah Feb 12 06:13:10 cryptk|work: Haven't installed it. Is that worth trying? Would it lead to a workaround? Or help narrow down the problem? Feb 12 06:13:24 Jeah: I presume you've rebooted the host PC ? Feb 12 06:13:28 if you installed the SDK you have novacom Feb 12 06:13:46 may need a reboot to make the service start though Feb 12 06:13:51 Jeah: if you're running windows do start, run, services.msc, find Palm Novacom service and stop and restart that Feb 12 06:13:52 rwhitby: Yes. Feb 12 06:14:08 destinal-home: Ubuntu 9.10 Feb 12 06:14:23 ah ubuntu not starting service problem Feb 12 06:14:24 Jeah: ah, ok you need to install the palm-novacomd ipk Feb 12 06:14:41 s/ipk/deb/ Feb 12 06:14:41 destinal-home meant: Jeah: ah, ok you need to install the palm-novacomd deb Feb 12 06:14:48 my brain is stuck in itsy world Feb 12 06:14:57 destinal-home: I thought the palm linux SDK installed that? Feb 12 06:15:11 I think it was listed separately on palm's site. Feb 12 06:15:12 don't think so, they have you download both .deb's Feb 12 06:15:15 and install both Feb 12 06:15:28 What's the command? So I can see if it tab-completes? Feb 12 06:15:35 of course there's one more issue even after you install it Feb 12 06:15:58 palm-novacomd I think Feb 12 06:15:59 the service won't start because they tried putting a symlink in the init directory instead of the file Feb 12 06:16:04 type in palm and try and tab complete Feb 12 06:16:31 destinal-home: really now? Feb 12 06:16:56 One other thing that I think might be fishy is that I noticed that Palm's directions for installing the SDK include installing virtualbox first, but the directions on the wiki didn't say to do that, so I didn't. I figured I don't need to actually virtualize the OS since I'm not testing software, just flashing. Is that right, or is that a necessary step? Feb 12 06:17:20 Jeah: the virtualbox is just for the palm-emulator stuff Feb 12 06:17:54 if you want to be able to emulate a webos device then you need vbox Feb 12 06:18:15 destinal-home: But webOS Doctor won't fail this way if it's not there, right? Feb 12 06:18:21 or rather, because it's not there Feb 12 06:18:24 you don't need SDK for doctor Feb 12 06:18:27 just palm-novacomd Feb 12 06:18:48 destinal-home: Ah, you do need novacomd for it to work? Feb 12 06:18:53 dpkg -l palm-novacom Feb 12 06:18:55 destinal-home: The wiki says the SDK Feb 12 06:19:16 And I checked tab complete and don't have novacom Feb 12 06:19:26 Jeah: the novacom is part of the SDK (which requires virtualbox) but novacom can also be installed all by itself Feb 12 06:19:43 without virtualbox or the rest of the SDK Feb 12 06:19:52 everyone should have novacom installed IMHO Feb 12 06:20:07 virtualbox and the SDK are used to run an emulated webos to test things, novacom is used to communicate with the pone Feb 12 06:20:08 cryptk|work: I'm telling you, they don't install it as part of the SDK, it's a dependency of parts of the SDK and they tell you to get it seperately Feb 12 06:20:14 destinal-home: yes Feb 12 06:20:17 I know this Feb 12 06:20:27 cryptk|work: I installed the SDK, but don't have palm-novacom as a tab complete. Just palm-emulator -inspector -launch -package -generate -install -log -worm. Feb 12 06:20:28 ah ok Feb 12 06:20:37 but if you follow the SDK instructions on the palm site installing novacom is part of the published install process Feb 12 06:20:42 Jeah: don't try to tab complete it Feb 12 06:20:52 Jeah: just do dpkg -l palm-novacom Feb 12 06:20:53 it is a service not a command Feb 12 06:21:11 or try and tab complete novate Feb 12 06:21:24 should complete to novaterm (I believe) if it is installed right Feb 12 06:21:31 no complete for nova Feb 12 06:21:41 yeah, do what destinal said jsut to be sure Feb 12 06:21:47 dpkg -l palm-novacom Feb 12 06:21:53 any results? Feb 12 06:21:57 is this ubuntu? Feb 12 06:22:04 fresh palm SDK install? Feb 12 06:22:05 I'm trying to install a new theme but it says I need to delte my old one but it does not show my currne theme to delete Feb 12 06:22:07 yes Feb 12 06:22:13 initctl reload-configuration Feb 12 06:22:16 start palm-novacomd Feb 12 06:22:17 nope, no packages matching palm-novacom Feb 12 06:22:30 Jeah: x86 or 64 bit? Feb 12 06:22:35 x86 Feb 12 06:22:48 wget https://cdn.downloads.palm.com/sdkdownloads/1.3.1.314/sdkBinaries/palm-novacom_1.0.46_i386.deb Feb 12 06:22:51 how do I find my current theme so I delte it? Feb 12 06:22:57 then sudo dpkg -i palm-novacom_1.0.46_i386.deb Feb 12 06:23:04 Ok, so if novacom is the actual dependancy for the Doctor, then I can definitely do that. Feb 12 06:23:09 Is the wiki wrong? Feb 12 06:23:25 well, doctor should install novacom if it isn't already i thought... Feb 12 06:23:32 I know it does in windows... Feb 12 06:23:33 wget https://cdn.downloads.palm.com/sdkdownloads/1.3.1.314/sdkBinaries/palm-novacom_1.0.46_i386.deb; sudo dpkg -i palm-novacom_1.0.46_i386.deb Feb 12 06:23:49 destinal-home: should use && there Feb 12 06:23:54 incase wget has an error Feb 12 06:24:02 I'll download and install. Feb 12 06:24:10 Be back in a sec. Actually doing it from another computer. Feb 12 06:24:13 is that the latest novacom from palm? Feb 12 06:24:17 yes Feb 12 06:24:27 that is the one they have linked on their developer site Feb 12 06:24:34 after installing do the reload-configuration and start stuff Feb 12 06:24:52 initctl reload-configuration && start palm-novacomd Feb 12 06:25:26 egaudet: so you never ran into trouble with the /etc/init.d palm-novacomd symlink? Feb 12 06:25:48 destinal-home: I personally haven't but I don't think I am running the newest one if it was a recent chqange Feb 12 06:25:48 nope Feb 12 06:26:03 the only trouble i've had is that they don't reload-configuration Feb 12 06:26:23 for me it wouldn't recognize the name, and it was the only symlink there. so I rm'd the symlink and copied in its target instead and then I could start Feb 12 06:26:30 there should be -nothing- in /etc/init.d for palm Feb 12 06:27:00 they changed that Feb 12 06:27:14 they use /etc/init/palm-novacomd.conf now Feb 12 06:27:19 err /etc/init/palm-novacomd.conf right Feb 12 06:27:42 but it used to be a symlink to /opt/Palm/novacom/scripts/novacomd-conf Feb 12 06:27:43 and it's not a symlink for me Feb 12 06:27:52 and that broke stuff Feb 12 06:28:02 hmm never broke on mine Feb 12 06:28:16 you must have been using a sufficiently old version Feb 12 06:28:25 the older one didn't have the problem either Feb 12 06:28:28 without running reload-configuration it wont' recognize name Feb 12 06:28:28 Error with "initctl reload-configuration && start palm-novacomd". Would a restart accomplish the same thing? Feb 12 06:28:40 what error... Feb 12 06:28:42 what was the error? Feb 12 06:28:49 Jeah: run ls -al /etc/init/palm-novacomd.conf Feb 12 06:29:23 you might have the same problem I did Feb 12 06:31:28 Jeah: and a restart probably will _not_ help Feb 12 06:32:38 why would a restart not help? Feb 12 06:32:55 if inittab and the rc don't invoke /etc/init.d it should be moot Feb 12 06:33:01 tmzt: since I think the symlink where palm puts it is broken Feb 12 06:33:18 "start: Rejected send message, 1 matched rules; type="method_call", sender=":1.58" (uid=1000 pid=2290 comm="start) interface="com.ubuntu.Upstart0_6.Job" member="Start" error name="(unset)" requested_reply=0 destination="com.ubuntu.Upstart" (uid=0 pid=1 comm="/sbin/init")) Feb 12 06:33:41 destinal-home: you going to have some time to work on X at some point? Feb 12 06:33:46 Jeah: we need the output from ls -al /etc/init/palm-novacomd.conf Feb 12 06:33:50 is that planned for internals? Feb 12 06:34:03 sudo Feb 12 06:34:10 Sorry, opening quote was me, and I didn't close it at the end. Feb 12 06:34:21 tmzt: I'm interested but haven't done much with it, I think jacques has done most of it so far Feb 12 06:34:38 jacques: how far have you gotten? Feb 12 06:34:39 sudo initctl reload-configuration && sudo start palm-novacomd Feb 12 06:34:46 X under luna by the way Feb 12 06:34:46 egaudet: I tried that next and got the same error. Feb 12 06:35:01 egaudet: Sorry, not the same. Very similar, though. Feb 12 06:35:09 egaudet: ah, so it looks like that fixed it for me, cool Feb 12 06:35:30 AH, second sudo. Feb 12 06:35:36 Didn't try that. One sec. Feb 12 06:35:40 in that case it seems the symlink is only confusing unless you reload Feb 12 06:36:14 tmzt: I can build and run Xsdl but it shows a black screen. when it's in card view it displays properly tho Feb 12 06:36:31 "sudo initctl reload-configuration && sudo start palm-novacomd" worked. Now start webOS Doctor and try again? Feb 12 06:37:04 whoah, am I really experiencing 36.8 second lag ? Feb 12 06:37:08 hmm Feb 12 06:37:28 you put the Xsdl patch back? Feb 12 06:38:12 tmzt: I'm using 1.7.4. it's still in there Feb 12 06:38:23 Jeah: yeah start webos doctor and you should be good Feb 12 06:39:06 Seems to be working now. Thanks! (I'll stay in here, though, just in case.) Feb 12 06:39:23 Mind if I update the Wiki, or is it not publicly editable? Feb 12 06:39:36 Jeah: what are you doctoring for? Feb 12 06:39:37 Jeah: you have to register but you can edit it. Feb 12 06:40:11 jacques: Mostly to bypass initial activation. Got the phone from a family member and I don't have a data plan. Feb 12 06:40:26 ird: Ok. Feb 12 06:41:10 So to be clear, the must install SDK part of the instructions is incorrect, right? It should be must install novacom, and not SDK? Feb 12 06:41:36 I just want to make sure I don't make the wiki equally wrong or even more wrong. Feb 12 06:42:58 Jeah: which page are you modifying? Feb 12 06:43:06 you definitely don't need to install the SDK to meta-doctor Feb 12 06:43:15 yeah, novacom is all that is needed Feb 12 06:43:18 Not doing it now, but might later: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:MetaDoctor Feb 12 06:45:19 In the Linux directions for "Setting up Meta-Doctor", under "Installing required software", it says "6. Download and install the palm sdk from http://developer.palm.com. Download the version for Ubuntu Here and install it. (If you are running the the 64-bit version of Ubuntu 9.x you will have difficulty installing the SDK and the instructions on the download site are wrong. Read this thread and this post for help.)" Feb 12 06:46:06 Jeah: yeah that's in error Feb 12 06:46:21 yep Feb 12 06:46:37 should have the instructions that we gave for palm-novacom Feb 12 06:46:50 Ok, I'll try to change it later. Feb 12 06:49:32 can't wait until I'm not a windows helpdesk tech anymore... Feb 12 06:50:00 soon... and with a payraise... Feb 12 07:02:44 bed time-- night all Feb 12 07:04:08 night Feb 12 07:04:08 night destinal Feb 12 07:17:09 jacques: updated 0.9.22 pushed to testing feed Feb 12 07:18:41 rwhitby: I have to use bootstrap script to update that? Feb 12 07:19:25 jacques: you won't see a change, cause you've already got the cookie Feb 12 07:19:35 Looking for someone else to install Preware from testing feed Feb 12 07:22:35 rwhitby: were you asking my to test the updated version or just notifying me you had fixed the white screen? Feb 12 07:23:18 jacques: just notifying - I realised someone else needs to test cause your cookie is already updated to that version Feb 12 07:23:44 I wonder where /usr/lib/libltdl.so.3.1.5 comes from on Pre - it's part of libtool but there is no libtool on opensource.palm.com Feb 12 07:24:01 but some packages include their own copy of that lib and can install it ... Feb 12 07:24:24 pulseaudio has a different version tho so it doesn't come from there Feb 12 07:24:44 BTW if anyone can get pulseaudio to build / stage you are a better man than I Feb 12 07:30:59 so, if someone else can test Preware 0.9.22 from the testing feed I can release it ... Feb 12 07:32:43 anyone ... ? Bueller ? Bueller ? Feb 12 07:33:53 jacques: i have pulseaudio ...although I don't think I ever pushed it Feb 12 07:34:25 xcomp: I would appreciate it if you did :-) Feb 12 07:34:51 xcomp: are you building it or just staging the binaries from the rootfs ? Feb 12 07:35:02 always stage binaries :) Feb 12 07:35:06 building is a pita Feb 12 07:35:15 sigh. Feb 12 07:35:16 so I avoid building whenever possible :) Feb 12 07:35:32 i don't think I ever tried to build it Feb 12 07:35:42 just staged the libs and headers Feb 12 07:35:44 OK well please push it and I can put this little nightmare behind me Feb 12 07:35:50 but you can link against it and stuff Feb 12 07:36:09 I don't need to build it - it just didn't occur to me to stage the binaries for some reason Feb 12 07:36:11 rwhitby: on my lunch break I will remove preware and reinstall it via the bootstrap, would that be enough to make sure it works? Feb 12 07:36:37 xcomp: that's all I need :-) Feb 12 07:36:40 hmm, who added flac to cross-compile? Feb 12 07:36:47 zsIIRC Feb 12 07:36:54 ah. Feb 12 07:36:55 zsoc IIRC Feb 12 07:36:57 error: Untracked working tree file 'packages/flac/Makefile' would be overwritten by merge. Feb 12 07:37:05 heh Feb 12 07:37:07 another one I had but didn't push Feb 12 07:37:13 it was in nonworking until maybe earlier today Feb 12 07:37:24 i should stage some of these things Feb 12 07:37:43 yes I have quite a few packages unpushed myself Feb 12 07:37:44 I wasn't planning to until I could get emotion to work right Feb 12 07:37:50 rwhitby: just waiting on confirmation that removing preware and reinstalling through bootstrap will make it a fresh "cookie free" install Feb 12 07:38:17 my lunch just started, lol Feb 12 07:38:30 cryptk|work: I don't think that will remove the cookie Feb 12 07:38:51 I thought removing it with orange+click would? Feb 12 07:39:14 or you can tell me the location of the cookie and I can remove it manually after I delete preware Feb 12 07:39:37 oh, orange+click may well remove the cookie, but then you'd see the initial screen, not the new version screen Feb 12 07:39:43 (so not a valid test) Feb 12 07:39:47 ahh Feb 12 07:40:02 a good test, but not sufficient Feb 12 07:40:04 well, could I edit the cookie via terminal with vi to remove the part needed? Feb 12 07:40:19 then just re-launch preware? Feb 12 07:40:26 or, got one better Feb 12 07:40:44 delete preware, install with bootstrap but not alphas Feb 12 07:40:54 should give me the latest release Feb 12 07:41:02 jacques: committed Feb 12 07:41:02 add the testing feed back in if needed and update Feb 12 07:41:09 would that be a good test? Feb 12 07:41:36 xcomp: you rock Feb 12 07:42:02 rwhitby: ^^^ Feb 12 07:42:10 cryptk|work: yep, that should do it Feb 12 07:42:23 alright, gimmie a few minutes to get it done Feb 12 07:44:02 is doing a Full Erase technically more destructive than a Dr.? Feb 12 07:44:43 absolutely Feb 12 07:44:54 Dr doesn't touch /media/internal, full erase does Feb 12 07:44:59 they are orthogonal Feb 12 07:45:04 xcomp: "# Patch throws m4 into an infinite loop" yep, same here Feb 12 07:45:51 * xcomp eats an egg Feb 12 07:46:24 done Feb 12 07:46:27 err... say wha Feb 12 07:46:42 which patch? Feb 12 07:46:58 those makefiles work for me Feb 12 07:47:34 rwhitby: 0.9.21 is the latest release right? Feb 12 07:47:40 and .22 is the only alpha? Feb 12 07:47:49 rwhitby, danke Feb 12 07:47:59 my pre has been acting up, about time to give him a swift kick Feb 12 07:48:10 now i just gotta decide if i wanna try and re-sex everything, or wait until 1.4 Feb 12 07:48:42 xcomp: it was a comment in one of your makefiles. I was saying I saw same thing when trying to build my own Feb 12 07:49:11 although i guess i gotta have my stuff installed if i wanna test out all this AUPT :P Feb 12 07:49:16 jacques: oh ... lol Feb 12 07:49:40 yeah I think I reviewed the patch and decided it was immaterial to my staging purposes Feb 12 07:49:56 sometimes I really ... dislike ... autotools Feb 12 07:50:35 hrm... removed preware .22, reinstalled through bootstrap but it isn't showing in launcher Feb 12 07:50:52 I sure wish sb2 could be configured for multiple toolchains simultaneously Feb 12 07:51:41 wait Feb 12 07:51:42 see, crap Feb 12 07:51:47 i just did a Full Erase Feb 12 07:51:52 and my patches are still installed... Feb 12 07:51:57 lol Feb 12 07:52:08 Thanks to everyone that was helping me earlier. The Doctor worked great after your suggestions, and the phone is free of it's annoying Sprint-iness and is all set up! Feb 12 07:52:20 yeah I don't think full erase will wipe patches Feb 12 07:52:29 One more quick question, though. When using the MetaDoctor, I enabled USB networking, but as I don't have a data plan, I will probably not be using the phone for tethering. So my question is: will having it enabled compromise any other functions of the phone over USB, like the data transfer / universal storage mode that I assume is possible? Feb 12 07:52:35 FuMan: full erase removes the patch installer/removers but will not undo the changes made by the patches Feb 12 07:52:48 :P Feb 12 07:52:57 so what is going to actually take my shiz back to stock? Feb 12 07:53:20 if you want completely stock full erase + doctor Feb 12 07:53:38 but you could probably use the webos repair utility with compatibility override turned off Feb 12 07:53:52 and that will revert all the patches Feb 12 07:54:05 I don't know if EPR will remove them after a full erase (I don't think it will) Feb 12 07:54:39 gotta give credit to the modifications ability to survive... but damn, hard work to start over :P Feb 12 07:54:39 woot, got my preware back... rwhitby there may be a bug there Feb 12 07:54:51 well that is because of what the full erase does Feb 12 07:54:56 it removes all of the installed apps Feb 12 07:55:20 when a patch installs, it has an installer that is put in there, it has the remove script in it Feb 12 07:55:26 doing a full erase removes that Feb 12 07:55:33 but never runs the "uninstall" scripts Feb 12 07:55:41 so the changes never get revertes Feb 12 07:55:44 reverted* Feb 12 07:55:45 corrrect Feb 12 07:55:54 technically you should have done an EPR then the full erase Feb 12 07:56:15 but at this point you can use the repair utility to revert the changes Feb 12 07:56:22 xcomp: you don't get this when doing make unpack on pulseaudio: patch: **** malformed patch at line 40196: Index: Makefile.in ? Feb 12 07:56:27 or a doctor at this point will make it like a brand new phone Feb 12 07:56:35 cryptk|work: yep Feb 12 07:56:56 rwhitby: the testing feeds survived the preware uninstall/reinstall Feb 12 07:56:57 nice Feb 12 07:57:04 upgrading .21 to .22 now Feb 12 07:57:13 xcomp: I remember I had to massage the patch quite a bit to get it to apply Feb 12 07:57:21 cryptk|work: yeah, uninstall only removes what it put there Feb 12 07:57:39 rwhitby: I think I may have found some kind of a bug of some sort Feb 12 07:57:45 I only removed preware, not the service Feb 12 07:58:01 ran bootstrap, said no alphas, said no to reinstalling the service, yes to installing the app Feb 12 07:58:06 the app never showed in the launcher Feb 12 07:58:13 di a second rescan, still no go Feb 12 07:58:23 luna restart, still no preware icon Feb 12 07:58:36 cryptk|work: did you have 0.9.22 installed before? Feb 12 07:58:40 jacques: just tested, it patched cleanly Feb 12 07:58:44 yes Feb 12 07:58:51 cryptk|work: you can't go backwards Feb 12 07:59:03 ahh Feb 12 07:59:11 so that is why I had to reinstall the service AND the app Feb 12 07:59:18 btw, no white screen Feb 12 07:59:20 xcomp: did you just re-download the patch? Feb 12 07:59:37 just upgraded to .22 and re-ran, worked great Feb 12 08:00:24 was lovely not having to re-add the testing feeds via terminal on the pre, lol Feb 12 08:00:41 hmm, something ain't right here Feb 12 08:00:42 xcomp: I just re-downloaded the patch and got same error Feb 12 08:00:48 one min Feb 12 08:01:27 any cool features hidden in the preware bootstrap right now? Feb 12 08:01:40 nope, just the italian translations Feb 12 08:01:45 Preware 0.9.22 with Italian support released Feb 12 08:01:54 oh hell yeah o_O Feb 12 08:01:59 speaking of all these translations Feb 12 08:02:04 i can't find anywhere in preware to activate them Feb 12 08:02:05 nothing shiny and new, unless you have your phone set to italian... lol Feb 12 08:02:09 ... where is that menu O_o Feb 12 08:02:15 Ah, its based on phone setting? Feb 12 08:02:16 FuMan: they are based off of the phones language setting Feb 12 08:02:23 i figured that might be the case. Feb 12 08:02:31 ahhh, you're right! Feb 12 08:02:34 dammit Feb 12 08:02:35 run the first use app and choose spanish and preware will be in spanish Feb 12 08:02:39 and I just nuked the basterd Feb 12 08:02:43 just change it in regional settings Feb 12 08:02:47 or that Feb 12 08:02:48 lol Feb 12 08:02:49 no need to run first use Feb 12 08:02:50 :-\ Feb 12 08:03:10 I should be more careful about nuking stuff Feb 12 08:03:32 well, cool deal Feb 12 08:03:45 my dr should be done in a minute, and then the re-apply games begin O_O Feb 12 08:04:03 oh I remember what it was Feb 12 08:04:07 rwhitby, we gonna have any preware issues going to 1.4? Feb 12 08:04:16 some genius at palm forgot to drink their coffee Feb 12 08:04:25 and diffed the configure script Feb 12 08:04:30 and dumped it in the patch Feb 12 08:04:36 I remember ranting about it Feb 12 08:05:00 FuMan: since any new webOS version is under NDA, how would I be able to answer that? Feb 12 08:05:00 I wonder when 1.4 will arrive. Monday is a holiday in the US Feb 12 08:05:22 xcomp: that sounds familiar from when I had to fix the patch Feb 12 08:05:24 they diffed everything Feb 12 08:05:28 silly geese Feb 12 08:05:38 the pulseaudio patch was particularly bad Feb 12 08:05:45 horrible horrible patch Feb 12 08:05:52 you know what else I hate? they edit files on windows machines Feb 12 08:05:57 then diff Feb 12 08:05:58 rwhitby, well played good sir Feb 12 08:06:05 I guess ill just have to wait and see : Feb 12 08:06:07 :) Feb 12 08:06:13 so you get patches which remove lines only to replace the same lines with windows line endings Feb 12 08:06:27 that patch is massive Feb 12 08:06:35 they might as well have rewritten pulseaudio Feb 12 08:06:39 I have reduced some pathces by 1000's of lines by cleaning that up Feb 12 08:06:59 jacques: they could have the patch queued up on systems already just waiting for the 15th... could be an automatic thing... no button anyone has to press Feb 12 08:07:07 if they want to edit on windows, learn to use dos2unix Feb 12 08:07:57 >7000 lines after deleting the extraneous autotools cruft Feb 12 08:08:11 well, the patch is gpl Feb 12 08:08:18 yeah, it's a mess Feb 12 08:08:21 so that means I can stage it with my modifications :) Feb 12 08:10:16 * jacques is having crazy irc lag tonight. Feb 12 08:10:23 40.9 secs ? Feb 12 08:10:25 jacques: committed Feb 12 08:11:16 xcomp: doing 'make stage' now Feb 12 08:11:20 rwhitby: you gonna push .22 out to release? Feb 12 08:11:57 hmm. another error, but this might be a deficiency in my build env Feb 12 08:12:29 cryptk|work: already did 10 minutes ago Feb 12 08:12:46 configure.ac:417: warning: macro `AM_GLIB_GNU_GETTEXT' not found in library Feb 12 08:12:53 configure.ac:430: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_GLIB_GNU_GETTEXT Feb 12 08:13:02 apparently it's fatal Feb 12 08:13:41 your cross-compile env is missing gettext for some reason Feb 12 08:14:07 rwhitby: lol Feb 12 08:14:17 I have gettext installed in native env tho Feb 12 08:14:45 I got same error twice, did make stage a third time and now it's continuing - maybe the qemu-arm instability issue Feb 12 08:14:59 that should not have been a fatal error Feb 12 08:15:57 rwhitby: Does enabling USB networking in MetaDoctor compromise or conflict with any other USB functions of the Pre, like the data transfer / universal storage mode that I assume is possible? Feb 12 08:16:20 Jeah: not that I know of Feb 12 08:16:30 rwhitby: Thanks! Feb 12 08:16:37 xcomp: pulseaudio staged Feb 12 08:16:42 And thanks to everyone else for all the help! Feb 12 08:16:44 Goodnight. Feb 12 08:17:01 now I can't remember why I needed pulseaudio ... Feb 12 08:17:08 openal ? Feb 12 08:17:22 lol Feb 12 08:19:33 jacques: HAHA! Feb 12 08:19:43 took so long to make it work you forgot what you needed it for Feb 12 08:19:55 alas. :-( Feb 12 08:20:14 jacques: history? Feb 12 08:20:28 pretty sure it was openal - which requires cmake - which I built with a newer toolchain and now refuses to load - so re-building cmake Feb 12 08:21:02 rwhitby: I have been working on these deps on and off since feb 1st Feb 12 08:21:27 Hi :) Feb 12 08:21:43 usually have about 4 termainal tabs going on them too, so history won't work too well Feb 12 08:21:47 question.. is anyone doing the spanish translation of preware ? Feb 12 08:22:02 already done I thought... Feb 12 08:22:42 I too thought that Feb 12 08:22:59 oh.. too late then.. Feb 12 08:23:56 ok, just wanted to see if i could help with that... Feb 12 08:24:02 bye :) Feb 12 08:24:28 geez Feb 12 08:24:46 what kind of network admin assigns IP address zero to an actual machine Feb 12 08:25:07 i want to find him and slap him upside the head Feb 12 08:25:11 xcomp: I was about to give up for the night and go to sleep, but nooooo, you had to commit pulseaudio Feb 12 08:25:36 and here I am an hour later bootstrapping cmake Feb 12 08:25:42 jacques: it's your fault, if you hadn't talked I wouldn't have done it :) Feb 12 08:26:06 ok you got me thre Feb 12 08:26:20 s/r/er/ Feb 12 08:26:21 jacques meant: ok you got me there Feb 12 08:27:19 well ... now that I have successfully rebuilt my entire work environment against glibc 2.2, I'm going to bed Feb 12 08:28:01 when I get to work tomorrow I'm going to seek out the admin responsible for maintaining my previous work server and beat him up Feb 12 08:28:11 incompetent admins Feb 12 08:28:25 cost me two days of productivity Feb 12 08:28:35 won't respond to trouble tickets Feb 12 08:29:28 xcomp: thanks for your help. Feb 12 08:29:39 anytime Feb 12 08:29:57 incompetent admins are worse than no admins Feb 12 08:32:57 jacques: sometimes they are far worse Feb 12 08:33:52 a system left to it's own devices will at least try to maintain the status quo... an incompetent admin can tryely break things Feb 12 08:34:20 cryptk|work: agreed Feb 12 08:34:20 s/tryely/truely Feb 12 08:37:09 whoa Feb 12 08:37:23 jhojho: ?? Feb 12 08:37:31 someone figured out how to overclock the cpu in the droid http://www.taranfx.com/overclock-droid-cpu Feb 12 08:38:39 http://alldroid.org/viewtopic.php?f=312&t=1637 Feb 12 08:39:28 Ever since I installed Preware, the apps I installed from the App Catalog give the error "download failed" when installing or updating, Palm and Sprint have been no help at all, any ideas? Feb 12 08:40:17 when did you install preware? Feb 12 08:40:26 and how did you install it? Feb 12 08:40:35 week and a half ago or so Feb 12 08:40:40 the java installer Feb 12 08:40:49 the one from preware.org? Feb 12 08:41:00 where did you get it from? Feb 12 08:41:02 `night all Feb 12 08:41:21 there is a java app floating around that someone wrote to install preware and it doesn't do it right and borks stuff up Feb 12 08:41:45 or are you talking about quick install? Feb 12 08:41:52 if you used quick install that is fine Feb 12 08:42:30 if it was quick install or PrewareInstaller then those are fine Feb 12 08:42:35 Not quick install, to be fair I did not try downloading or updating for some time before installing it though Feb 12 08:42:51 I just assume it is related Feb 12 08:43:09 It was PrewareInstaller Feb 12 08:43:12 do you still have the java app you used? what is the name of it? Feb 12 08:43:29 PrewareInstaller-0.9.18.jar Feb 12 08:43:36 that is fine Feb 12 08:43:39 that is the official one Feb 12 08:43:49 hrm... Feb 12 08:43:59 rwhitby: any ideas? Feb 12 08:44:08 My Pre just gives me "Download Failed" bta Feb 12 08:44:14 btw* Feb 12 08:44:26 beer=poor typing Feb 12 08:44:29 does preware work? Feb 12 08:44:40 it did until the partial erase Feb 12 08:45:07 Fucking Palm erasing my fucking apps... Feb 12 08:45:27 does the app catalog work now? Feb 12 08:45:34 or no Feb 12 08:45:46 It opens, but any apps give the "Download Failed" error Feb 12 08:45:54 hrm... Feb 12 08:46:06 It did before the partial erase Feb 12 08:48:12 what's going on? Feb 12 08:48:41 when do you get "download failed" Feb 12 08:48:46 and what is the entire error message Feb 12 08:50:21 I gte the error whenever I update or download an "official" app, that is the entire error. Let me pull down the logs. Feb 12 08:52:07 ohhh, the logs are encrypted...shit Feb 12 08:52:53 I'd just like to add: Fuck you Plam. Fuck you. Feb 12 08:52:57 Palm* Feb 12 08:54:16 did you install preware after the OTA to 1.3.5? Feb 12 08:54:23 1.3.5.1 Feb 12 08:54:49 hrm... I heard of people having this issue after the 1.3.5/1.3.5.1 OTA and the Emergency Migration Helper fixed it... Feb 12 08:54:54 It did it for me, but I've killed the update app, but the app issues came before that change Feb 12 08:55:00 I don't know if this is your case or not, but it may be Feb 12 08:55:15 ahh, so you had thi problem before the OTA? Feb 12 08:55:17 err, before I killed the update app, not before the update itself Feb 12 08:55:31 what do you mean killed the update app? Feb 12 08:55:43 the app runs, then it finishes running... no killing needed Feb 12 08:55:43 yes Feb 12 08:56:05 Yea, but I killed OTA updates themselves, tired of it breaking things Feb 12 09:01:28 Like I said, the issue came up before that. Feb 12 09:01:33 one sec Feb 12 09:01:37 k Feb 12 09:03:02 ok, what webos version were you running when the problem started? Feb 12 09:03:44 I am at work btw, so if I randomly don't respond, I'm not ignoring you, just means that I had to do something Feb 12 09:04:00 Same as I am running now 1.3.5.1 Feb 12 09:04:12 No prob, I do the same thing at work Feb 12 09:04:22 When I'm on evening shift at least Feb 12 09:07:24 so you were already on 1.3.5.1, everything worked great, then you installed preware and it stopped working right? Feb 12 09:07:31 ypu Feb 12 09:07:34 yup Feb 12 09:07:44 what version of preware was it? Feb 12 09:07:49 app and service version Feb 12 09:08:08 PrewareInstaller-0.9.18.jar is all I know about that Feb 12 09:08:19 hrm... Feb 12 09:08:37 I am not sure what the problem is... if rwhitby is still here he may be able to help Feb 12 09:10:01 Damn, Sprint pretty much said "we don't know, so stop calling us" and Palm said "uhhhh engineers are looking into it" Feb 12 09:10:36 I work in a NOC which does helpdesk so I know that means "fat chance we will ever look at your issue" Feb 12 09:12:04 haha Feb 12 09:12:10 I work at a helpdesk also Feb 12 09:12:20 that is why I stop responding... means my phone rang, lol Feb 12 09:12:37 the only issue like this that i knew of had to do with the 1.3.5 OTA Feb 12 09:12:48 and the EMH was made to fix it (and a couple other issues) Feb 12 09:12:54 but your phone was already migrated... Feb 12 09:13:04 did you ever have preware or homebrew before 1.3.5? Feb 12 09:13:32 Between 1.3.5 and and 1.3.5.1 I'm not sure if I ever tried downloading Feb 12 09:13:51 Yes, some time ago, maybe before the WebOS doctor I had to si Feb 12 09:13:53 do* Feb 12 09:14:58 ok, so the phone was doctored prior to 1.3.5, migrated to 1.3.5 with no preware or homebrew of any kind. Feb 12 09:15:19 hell, it is still worh a shot to reinstall preware and run the EMH and see if there is some remnant of something that didn't migrate right Feb 12 09:15:49 EMH doesn't hirt anything if it is run un-necessarially Feb 12 09:15:56 s/hirt/hurt/ Feb 12 09:15:56 cryptk|work meant: EMH doesn't hurt anything if it is run un-necessarially Feb 12 09:18:10 what is EMH? Feb 12 09:18:18 That might be a stupid question. Feb 12 09:18:31 Emergency Migration Helper Feb 12 09:18:34 it is in preware Feb 12 09:19:41 k Feb 12 09:33:11 I installed PeWae but it seems stuck at the boot.... Feb 12 09:33:21 I hope I did not break it Feb 12 09:44:47 How do I run EMH? Feb 12 09:44:55 install it Feb 12 09:48:11 I don't see EMH, what is it under? Feb 12 09:48:35 list of everything type "emer" Feb 12 09:49:37 Ionly see "Emergency Information" and "Dog Emergency" Feb 12 09:53:31 is webos-internals feed on? Feb 12 09:54:39 yep Feb 12 09:56:52 reinstall package manager service Feb 12 09:57:54 I don't see anything named that either Feb 12 09:59:19 not via preware Feb 12 09:59:33 you can use preware-bootstrap to reinstall latest stuff Feb 12 10:02:40 how did you install preware Feb 12 10:07:21 One sec Feb 12 10:16:22 I install it using the Preware installer, and I re-installed the service, used EMH, and an app from App Catalog installed! Feb 12 10:16:53 fuck, you guys are awesome....days of fighting with Sprint and Palm and you guys had it fixed it no time Feb 12 10:19:30 you guys have a Paypal link somewhere? Feb 12 10:19:48 you guys=WebOS Internals Feb 12 10:21:35 i want to make an app that backs up the data files from other apps, so that u're not left to start from scratch after a fresh install Feb 12 10:21:48 i wiped my pre and lost everything from the mileage tracker app :( Feb 12 10:22:07 could this idea be realistic? Feb 12 10:22:11 CorpX: I had the same issue....twice Feb 12 10:23:17 i just need to call the terminal app and run the commands to back up the files to the /media/internal/backup/ folder Feb 12 10:29:28 ok terminal service plugin, holla? Feb 12 11:02:35 Thanks again for your help, folks. I updated the wiki with the correct instructions using Novacom instead of the SDK. Feb 12 11:02:51 Jeah: good stuff, thanks a bunch Feb 12 11:03:10 if you think you see any other errors, just check with us to see if it is indeed a error, then fix it! lol Feb 12 11:03:21 (well, check with them... not so much me, lol) Feb 12 11:03:29 rwhitby: Hey, thank you very much for your work on webos-internals and meta-doctor. I have one quick suggestion for you. I think it would be extremely helpful if you put a brief one or two sentence comment before the patching options in the Makefile so that it's a little more clear what each of them do. Feb 12 11:03:33 bbiab, break time Feb 12 11:03:34 haha, thanks Feb 12 11:03:47 Yeah, I fixed some other stuff in there. And a little bit of just general cleaning up. Feb 12 11:03:52 Just that one page though. Feb 12 11:04:02 It represents the extent of my experience so far! :) Feb 12 11:05:43 rwhitby: It doesn't seem to be documented anywhere, at least that I saw. I'm sure it's obvious for people familiar with the Pre and the updates, but otherwise it's a little tough to figure out. Feb 12 11:16:56 Jeah: good stuff, that is how a wiki is meant to be used Feb 12 11:18:07 cryptk|work: Cool. Glad to pitch in. Feb 12 12:40:05 Jeah: I took a quick look over your changes and they lok pretty good Feb 12 12:43:36 cryptk|work: Thanks. I tried to fix some of the other things that were wrong. Even if they were more transparent and easier to guess/intuit for a new user like me, I figured they were worth changing. I'm glad you didn't find anything wrong with it. Feb 12 12:45:18 yeah, I lokoed at the change history to see everything you did... good stuff man Feb 12 12:45:29 s/loko/look/ Feb 12 12:45:29 cryptk|work meant: yeah, I looked at the change history to see everything you did... good stuff man Feb 12 12:47:26 Nice. Thank you. Nothing big (except fixing that SDK/Novacom thing you guys told me about), but I figured it would be nice to fix up the page a bit. Feb 12 14:30:16 ii got a question Feb 12 14:30:36 for anyome who wants to help me w preware Feb 12 14:30:59 helllllo Feb 12 14:31:23 hey Feb 12 16:27:19 hey, i need some help with preware Feb 12 16:28:13 hey, i need some help with preware, I followed the instructions on the quick install but preware is not in the list Feb 12 16:28:51 you missed it. Feb 12 16:29:54 missed it Feb 12 16:30:31 it goes "pretty cute suite" and then "prexcuse" nothing in the middle Feb 12 16:32:24 found it, i was in the wrong folder Feb 12 16:37:45 that happens. Feb 12 16:55:06 hi Feb 12 16:55:09 ahm... Feb 12 16:55:16 yes? Feb 12 16:55:32 i want to know how difficult is it to develop for the palm pre Feb 12 16:55:39 dead dirt simple Feb 12 16:56:11 i have experience since 4 years with c++ but only with windows Feb 12 16:56:28 karotte_exe: the tools are free, and there are vibrant developer (both "official" and "homebrew") communities. Feb 12 16:56:41 i habent experience with linux :( NOTHING Feb 12 16:56:48 well, you have to make a choice, javascript/html/css or c++ using Linux. Feb 12 16:56:59 c++ Feb 12 16:57:12 karotte_exe then that's the place to start, download the Sun virtualbox vm, and install ubuntu in it. Feb 12 16:57:17 i love this language, java is ugly! Feb 12 16:57:27 no one said anything about java. Feb 12 16:57:41 can't i programming with windows? Feb 12 16:57:52 karotte_exe: this channel is generally more targeted to the more narrow "webos-internals.org" community, but in addition to this one the #webos channel is also here for more general SDK / environment questions and issues. Feb 12 16:58:18 karotte_exe not yet. when Palm releases the PDK you will be able to use whatever windows IDE they support, but recognize that you're going to be WRITING for linux because the palm RUNS linux. Feb 12 16:58:23 hm. ok Feb 12 16:58:46 fu** Feb 12 16:58:48 so if you're writing in C++ for the palm, this is the right channel. but Feb 12 16:59:02 waht? Feb 12 16:59:08 *what? Feb 12 16:59:24 if it was me, I would get a copy of ubuntu running in a vm, and download some open-source app that you're sort of interested in and look at how the app works. Feb 12 16:59:39 aha Feb 12 16:59:47 we have several GOOD examples for the palm in the webos-internals git repository. Feb 12 17:00:06 but you NEED to have a copy of ubuntu running in a vm to compile with and test with. Feb 12 17:00:23 see the www.webos-internals.org wiki and read the stuff on the WIPK Feb 12 17:00:39 is the diffrenz between proging for linuy and windows big? Feb 12 17:00:56 i know the homepage, thx Feb 12 17:02:56 are there existing sdk's like directX or openGL? since one year im proging with directX Feb 12 17:05:08 hm? Feb 12 17:08:17 SDL w/opengles for 3d programming Feb 12 17:09:23 that means i have to leanr openGL? Feb 12 17:17:09 the apis are probably not much different between directX and openGL. but there will be differences between openGL and openGL ES Feb 12 17:17:30 karotte_exe: directX and direct3D are microsoft only platforms that are available only on windows and the xbox. Feb 12 17:18:06 i know :( Feb 12 19:07:57 morning xcomp Feb 12 19:08:29 i have found a new love Feb 12 19:08:31 and it is powerdns Feb 12 19:53:27 morning all Feb 12 19:54:34 if i want to go back to factory state how would i go about this Feb 12 19:54:45 doctor Feb 12 19:54:57 full restore then doctor? Feb 12 19:55:05 full wipe i mean Feb 12 19:56:14 http://www.palm.com/us/support/downloads/pre/recoverytool/webosdoctor_sprint.html Feb 12 19:58:30 there is also the webos internals meta doctor Feb 12 19:58:42 but if you unfamiliar i suggest just trying palm's webos doctor first Feb 12 19:59:05 especially if its an already activated pre with a profile Feb 12 19:59:24 and the doctor will put me back at square one? Feb 12 19:59:30 yes Feb 12 19:59:32 k Feb 12 19:59:32 all the way Feb 12 19:59:33 only if you do the full wipe first Feb 12 19:59:35 back up anything you have before Feb 12 19:59:43 loot that's no longer true. Feb 12 19:59:48 oh? Feb 12 19:59:52 palm's site doesnt reflect that Feb 12 19:59:55 a doctor does NOT erase /media/internal Feb 12 20:00:05 Important If you have pictures, videos, music files, or other files on the USB drive of your phone, you will need to restore these from your computer. Running the tool deletes all files stored in the USB drive. Feb 12 20:00:09 and since it doesn't that means that your apps are still there. Feb 12 20:00:17 Yeah, that hasn't been true since 1.3.5 Feb 12 20:00:21 ah ok Feb 12 20:00:27 i havent run doctor since 1.3.0 Feb 12 20:00:27 lol Feb 12 20:00:33 you have to do a full wipe and THEN doctor Feb 12 20:00:35 maybe before that even cant remember Feb 12 20:01:23 k, i just want to go back to factory state remove all the stuff i did to root it and im just gonna access root with novaterm Feb 12 20:01:39 yea im also doing the same thing on mine soon Feb 12 20:01:45 my pre's a mess Feb 12 20:01:50 with custom kernels Feb 12 20:01:54 a gentoo ARM userland Feb 12 20:01:55 etc Feb 12 20:02:01 so, yes, you have to do a full reset AND doctor Feb 12 20:02:19 lol yea i havent got that in depth but ty Rick and loot for the info Feb 12 20:02:57 quick question, best way to make a patch is diff or quilt? Feb 12 20:03:16 depends i guess Feb 12 20:03:24 farms - we use diff now Feb 12 20:03:37 that's all changed to. No more quilt Feb 12 20:03:48 see the wiki on aupt Feb 12 20:03:53 k just making sure Feb 12 20:03:59 i dont understand how to download prewaer Feb 12 20:04:08 ryan I can help with that. Feb 12 20:04:26 thanks Feb 12 20:04:28 ryan_ have you ever downloaded anything for you palm phone at all? Feb 12 20:04:41 just music and apps Feb 12 20:04:51 Gotcha. Feb 12 20:05:28 i just dont understand where to go to download this Feb 12 20:05:36 ok, ryan_ -- have you enabled developer mode on the phone? Feb 12 20:05:54 how do you do that? Feb 12 20:06:05 oky dokey -- we do this from step 1. Feb 12 20:06:09 ok Feb 12 20:06:10 turn on your phone. Feb 12 20:06:15 yup Feb 12 20:06:24 open the keyboard and type webos20090606 Feb 12 20:06:31 do not worry about what happens as you type it Feb 12 20:06:36 just type the whole thing. Feb 12 20:06:44 and an icon for developer mode will come up. Feb 12 20:06:58 click it, and enable developer mode. Feb 12 20:07:38 all it says on mine is google, google maps, wikipedia, and twitter Feb 12 20:07:50 just finish typing it. Feb 12 20:08:06 i got it Feb 12 20:08:13 if nothing but that happened, you didn't type it all or you missed a character. webos20090606 Feb 12 20:08:30 i got it and turned it on. Feb 12 20:08:34 ok good. Feb 12 20:08:38 do i reset it now? Feb 12 20:08:42 yes. Feb 12 20:08:48 ok Feb 12 20:08:52 now to your desktop. Feb 12 20:08:58 Mac, PC or Linux? Feb 12 20:09:39 ryan_??? Feb 12 20:09:51 pc Feb 12 20:10:02 good. Is Java installed on your PC? Feb 12 20:10:06 yeah Feb 12 20:10:10 good. Feb 12 20:10:22 have you ever downloaded the webos doctor? Feb 12 20:10:38 i think so Feb 12 20:11:08 if you did download it, there will be a big file called webos-doctor-bla-blah-bla.jar in your downloads folder, can you look for me? Feb 12 20:11:19 hang on Feb 12 20:12:05 its not there Feb 12 20:12:19 is your carrier sprint? Do you have a pre or a pixi? Feb 12 20:12:33 sprint and the pre Feb 12 20:13:10 use this address to download the doctor. DO NOT RUN IT just download it. save it in your downloads directory Feb 12 20:13:11 http://bit.ly/6jQA8a Feb 12 20:13:34 (it's big, it will take a while.) Feb 12 20:13:42 ok Feb 12 20:14:04 just save it? Feb 12 20:14:10 just save it. Feb 12 20:14:28 When it's done, download THIS link into the SAME FOLDER as the doctor, and run it. Feb 12 20:14:30 http://get.preware.org/PrewareInstaller-0.9.18.exe Feb 12 20:14:39 and it will install preware for you. Feb 12 20:14:44 and then, you're done. Feb 12 20:15:24 ok thanks Feb 12 20:16:00 you will probably need to reset the phone again after the preware installer runs, even if it doesn't ask you, you probably should power cycyle the phone Feb 12 20:17:12 should i have tne phone pulgged into the computer while i download these? Feb 12 20:17:21 it doesn't matter Feb 12 20:17:24 ok Feb 12 20:20:14 and _THAT_ ladies and gentlemen is why Palm says that it's ok for us to do the deep rooting around we are doing in the phone. "Normal people" will never go through all that. :) Welcome to geekdom ryan_ Feb 12 20:21:38 . Feb 12 20:21:50 Rick_work: I think your statement depends on the implication that Palm has to say it's ok, or that Palm would try to stop us if there was no barrier to entry (?) Feb 12 20:21:51 hrm is #webos +m? Feb 12 20:22:47 destinal that statement is direct from Palm. I didn't make it up, I'm quoting them. That is their explanation for their attitude towards us. I made no assertion about it's rightness, or the rightness of what we do. Feb 12 20:22:53 I figured Palm was excited about what we're doing regardless and would be whether or not it was easy Feb 12 20:23:23 mikewx you have to be registered with nickserve to speak in #webos Feb 12 20:23:28 bleh Feb 12 20:23:34 if that's what +M means, then yes, otherwise, no. Feb 12 20:23:36 lol Feb 12 20:23:49 oh well, i was just going to vent about the crack in the lower corner of my pre i saw today` Feb 12 20:23:54 * mikewx will suffer in silence Feb 12 20:24:08 mikewx what makes you think there is any more effective than here? Feb 12 20:24:17 and what's the big deal about registering? Feb 12 20:24:17 just figured it was more topical there Feb 12 20:24:25 mikewx: #webos is mode +q $~a Feb 12 20:24:35 mikewx: which used to be +R before the migration Feb 12 20:25:11 ah Feb 12 20:25:28 someone should get them to remove that mode now that the hole exploited by the javascript spam exploit is closed Feb 12 20:27:48 Rick_work: regarding the barrier to entry, I wonder what will happen if/when we ever succeed at making it really easy for anyone to use advanced homebrew, and where the threshold is that they would be annoyed at Feb 12 20:27:51 my computer said i need to download Novacom drivers Feb 12 20:28:16 Rick_work: from my perspective, people have the right to load whatever on their phones, and webos-internals will make it as easy as we can to do it Feb 12 20:28:25 ryan, you have them, that's the point of the doctor. Feb 12 20:28:35 ok Feb 12 20:28:59 destinal -- it's an interesting question, but again, I am just repeating palm's comments, not analysing them. Feb 12 20:29:11 sure. I'm analysing them :P Feb 12 20:29:12 ryan_ -- what EXACTLY does it say? Feb 12 20:30:13 it says the palm Novacom service was not found on this computer Feb 12 20:30:21 ok. Feb 12 20:30:26 Unplug the phone Feb 12 20:30:30 run the doctor jar. Feb 12 20:30:30 ok Feb 12 20:30:36 it will install the novacomm drivers. Feb 12 20:30:43 whats the doctor jar? Feb 12 20:30:51 (AAARRRGHHH we have to get stand alone novacomm installers) Feb 12 20:31:02 sorry Feb 12 20:31:52 argh Feb 12 20:32:06 so what is it? Feb 12 20:32:36 Rick_work: novacomd is available standalone for linux .. not so much for windows Feb 12 20:34:36 unforunately it requires running an installer, since it requires a driver to be installed Feb 12 20:34:39 i hate windows Feb 12 20:34:47 im so confused Feb 12 20:34:47 we spent easily 95% of our time dicking with windows Feb 12 20:35:01 ryan_: novacom is a protocol for managing a webos device over USB, TCP, etc, and what we normally refer to as novacomd or palm-novacomd is the service that runs on your PC to compose the PC's half of that connection. geist wrote it :) Feb 12 20:35:02 getting usb working on linux and mac was like half a day Feb 12 20:35:28 yes geist, but it ought to be possible to have a novacomm installer that is not embedded in a 200 meg download. Feb 12 20:35:50 well the installer is in the jar, they'd just have to make it available for separate download Feb 12 20:36:03 Rick_work: yah Feb 12 20:36:15 destinal I know. Feb 12 20:36:26 i think that's mostly a staffing thing. the folks that maintain and test that now are already wayyyy overbooked Feb 12 20:36:38 since the testing matrix for windows is insane Feb 12 20:37:10 ye geist, but there's no way that anyone could give us PERMISSION to pull it out and use it either. It's still proprietary code. Feb 12 20:37:28 Rick_work: well, they could give us permission to copy it around Feb 12 20:37:37 * geist shrug Feb 12 20:37:48 having a bunch float around would be problematic too Feb 12 20:38:01 people getting old versions, etc Feb 12 20:38:01 versioning issues, though I dunno Feb 12 20:38:17 when i said that there was no way destinal I ment politically, not physically or legally. It's certainly technically possible, but in my opinion unlikely. Feb 12 20:38:18 we talking about novacom Feb 12 20:38:23 we are. Feb 12 20:39:36 Rick_work: whas wrong with the stuff bpal was working on? oss clone? Feb 12 20:39:39 Hey Rick_work: would you mind if I put your full name in a special thanks area of my app? If so, lemme know what your full name is! Feb 12 20:39:44 geist: the novacom stuff would seem to be one of those great things to open source. I guess we can continue with the open source reimplementation bpadalino started Feb 12 20:39:44 how can you have any pudding if you dont eat your meat? Feb 12 20:39:57 destinal: yep. i'd love to. alas i dont really work on it anymore Feb 12 20:40:02 another team deals with it now Feb 12 20:42:09 You, YES you! Feb 12 20:42:12 Stand still Laddy! Feb 12 20:42:23 I was just listening to that album. Feb 12 20:42:43 PF is pretty much the Default thing to listen to Feb 12 20:42:45 i cant get it Feb 12 20:43:04 geist: one of these days, I'm going to cut you into little pieces. Feb 12 20:43:15 hah Feb 12 20:43:17 <3 meddle Feb 12 20:43:21 yeah Feb 12 20:43:25 VincentLaw: btw, seems it's not a typefind, but a plugin issue. that's good and bad. just involves some research on my part to figure out what decodebin should we grabbing Feb 12 20:43:27 cept i always skip that one song... Feb 12 20:43:31 san tropez i think Feb 12 20:43:34 WHAT! Feb 12 20:43:35 VincentLaw: I'll work on it after I finish vorbis support Feb 12 20:43:36 zsoc: ah damn :p Feb 12 20:43:40 That's a great song :) Feb 12 20:43:47 I always skip the one with the dogs howling. Feb 12 20:43:58 Saemus or whatever it is Feb 12 20:43:59 oh that one Feb 12 20:44:03 yeah, that's the one i skip Feb 12 20:44:46 geist: oh well. I'm hoping sooner or later palm gets interested in putting more open source stuff out there. (ie contributing stuff that palm rather than as a compliance thing) I know at some level it takes work even to publish the code, but I'm sure there are those in the community that would be happy to contribute patches etc Feb 12 20:44:58 s/rather/made rather/ Feb 12 20:44:59 destinal meant: geist: oh well. I'm hoping sooner or later palm gets interested in putting more open source stuff out there. (ie contributing stuff that palm made rather than as a compliance thing) I know at some level it takes work even to publish the code, but I'm su... Feb 12 20:45:07 yeah, though the trouble is we'd likely not be able to take any of the patches back Feb 12 20:45:19 there are serious legal issues with taking patches from the community, i think Feb 12 20:45:29 you could always ask for assignation Feb 12 20:45:33 hm? Feb 12 20:45:57 i think the trouble you can get into is if someone sends you a patch and lies about it and it turns out ot be a piece of some other GPL code, you're ultimately responsible Feb 12 20:46:01 and thus you get screwed Feb 12 20:46:19 the solution is to spend a huge amount of time cross indexing it Feb 12 20:46:30 but stuff can fall through the cracks Feb 12 20:46:39 geist: that's why code is documented in gits etc. you don't just use stuff someone sends you Feb 12 20:46:51 zsoc: it's still work Feb 12 20:47:08 yep, and again they could swipe it from some other project and say its theirs Feb 12 20:47:12 destinal: not if it's palm's git Feb 12 20:47:20 all it takes is the original person to come to you and tell you it was originally theirs Feb 12 20:47:29 and then it's your problem, since you're a huge target (for $$) Feb 12 20:47:38 geist: so start using your own hub more, and allow known developers access Feb 12 20:47:39 tis the problem with being a company Feb 12 20:47:51 lots of folks want to trap you in lawsuits Feb 12 20:48:26 so, as a company you just have to find your risk level, and i think we'll try to step out of our shell a bit once we can catch our breath Feb 12 20:49:10 geist: have developers given access, and sign liability contracts that they licensed the code submitted Feb 12 20:49:25 but yeah, I understand risk assessment/mitigation Feb 12 20:49:26 perhaps Feb 12 20:49:35 i'm sure that's a strategy to avoid some of the risk Feb 12 20:49:55 perhaps android avoids it a bit since they dont ship fones directly Feb 12 20:50:20 and they have that code portal, maybe that handles the contractural side of things Feb 12 20:50:33 anyhoo, gotta go Feb 12 20:50:37 probably Feb 12 20:50:54 later Feb 12 20:53:36 rick i think i found the problem Feb 12 20:57:21 VincentLaw: can you give me examples of other websites that use .ts? Feb 12 20:59:47 morning Feb 12 21:05:55 ~~~~ Feb 12 21:05:56 ARGH!!! STOP IT jacques!!! Feb 12 21:12:36 rwhitby: morning Feb 12 21:12:59 sup destinal Feb 12 21:13:10 DrFunk: hey there Feb 12 21:14:20 what's going on ? Feb 12 21:15:47 hmmm I must be lagging Feb 12 21:17:35 it's eerily quiet in here today Feb 12 21:18:08 one of those days i guess Feb 12 21:18:16 shit, i just woke up Feb 12 21:18:47 nice Feb 12 21:19:01 dBsooner: ping Feb 12 21:19:02 wish I just woke up Feb 12 21:20:12 destinal: ping Feb 12 21:20:55 infobot: ping Feb 12 21:20:56 ~pong Feb 12 21:21:12 lol Feb 12 21:22:46 argh. I don't want to spend the time to learn enough cmake to fix my problem Feb 12 21:22:58 have fun all bbl Feb 12 21:23:09 later DrFunk Feb 12 21:29:37 jacques: I have the cmake book at home Feb 12 21:29:43 jacques: what problem? Feb 12 21:38:43 destinal: I need the equivalent of LDFLAGS="..." ./configure Feb 12 21:39:08 cmake is not finding dep libs Feb 12 21:49:24 hi Feb 12 21:49:34 ahm... little question Feb 12 21:50:23 on the webos-internals homepage, is there a feed or page where i can see app that are new or comming soon? Feb 12 21:51:21 just run Preware Feb 12 21:51:54 why? Feb 12 21:52:18 there aren't list apps that will in work Feb 12 21:52:37 there is if you add the testing feed Feb 12 21:52:42 ~testing-feed Feb 12 21:52:44 methinks testing-feed is a means of testing new WebOS Internals products, documented at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Testing_Feeds Feb 12 21:53:03 how can i add the feed? Feb 12 21:53:14 look one line up Feb 12 21:53:53 yes :) it was a bad quastion from me xD Feb 12 21:53:59 *question Feb 12 21:54:20 puh... it is very much to write :O Feb 12 21:54:36 * rwhitby bbl Feb 12 22:01:41 ahm... what is the command for this symbol? ">" Feb 12 22:04:07 yay jason!!!!!!!!!!! Feb 12 22:04:26 hi Feb 12 22:06:00 JayCanuck: you have a fan club Feb 12 22:06:17 lol Feb 12 22:06:21 hey, how can i write the ">" symbol in the terminal? Feb 12 22:06:38 ping egaudet Feb 12 22:10:03 JayCanuck: whatcha need? Feb 12 22:11:09 the device menu ultramix patch is missing proper credits Feb 12 22:12:00 there's an ultramix now? i thought there was only megamix and remix Feb 12 22:12:07 lol, yea Feb 12 22:12:42 a large amount of the ultramiz was taken from my other device menu patches. I have no problem with that; made them mit license for a reason, I just want proper credit Feb 12 22:13:06 JayCanuck: part of mit license is mandatory credit, I believe :) Feb 12 22:13:28 thus why I pinged egaudet ;) Feb 12 22:13:38 JayCanuck: who released the patch? Feb 12 22:13:56 cwgtex Feb 12 22:17:19 whats the difference between ultramix and megamix? looks like megamix is better than ultramix based on the screenshots Feb 12 22:19:56 ? Feb 12 22:21:01 JayCanuck: if you have enough options in your top bar for there to be a 'scroll', there's an odd bug I assume you've seen? Feb 12 22:21:30 ultramix has a few mixed around options Feb 12 22:21:56 I believe it has date and battery still, and only has a data toggle rather than phone submenu Feb 12 22:22:11 bug? Feb 12 22:23:11 I know if there's a lot of rows the default scroller takes control fine Feb 12 22:33:27 hello Feb 12 22:38:10 JayCanuck: we can do credit in the maintainer field, or just as another line in the description "Based on X patch by Joe" Feb 12 22:38:32 JayCanuck: depends whether you want to be a maintainer for the modified patch or not ;-) Feb 12 22:38:42 lol Feb 12 22:39:19 just add the line to the description, works well enough Feb 12 22:39:38 which patch? Feb 12 22:40:26 device menu ultramix Feb 12 22:40:48 ring-a-ding ding ding dong Feb 12 22:40:54 destinal: i love my new ringtone Feb 12 22:41:10 JayCanuck: You should release a app menu patch without the bluetooth command Feb 12 22:41:11 PuffTheMagic_: oh god, you used that geico one? Feb 12 22:41:20 llol Feb 12 22:41:38 destinal: yup Feb 12 22:42:13 JayCanuck: what should the last line of the desription say? Feb 12 22:42:26 PuffTheMagic_, I put that as my ringtone and then it went off in work Feb 12 22:42:57 it currently says: " All credit to original patch creators, with special thanks to Jason Robitaille for Unified Diff Creator. This patch requires Jason's systoolsmgr service to function correctly. " Feb 12 22:43:04 egaudet: did everyone laugh? Feb 12 22:43:22 the couple people around my cube yeah Feb 12 22:44:00 maybe edit it to "All credit to original device menu patch creators" Feb 12 22:44:11 and that should be specific enough Feb 12 22:44:43 where is that ringtone, I gotta get it, lol Feb 12 22:46:16 JayCanuck: done, next autobuild will release the update. Feb 12 22:46:48 JayCanuck: http://www.geico.com/about/commercials/music/ringtones/ Feb 12 22:47:00 lol, sweet Feb 12 22:47:40 wow, http://www.myappbox.com/hotapps/ is gonna cause a multiplicative effect Feb 12 22:48:43 (i.e. if everyone starts putting up pages which show the current leaders, then the current leaders will be the ones that get the most views ...) Feb 12 22:49:10 destinal: forget what I said about cmake above; LDFLAGS works Feb 12 22:49:53 jacques: cool Feb 12 22:50:06 rwhitby: yeah, that is a problem Feb 12 22:50:19 rwhitby: heh, what those numbers tell me is don't expect to get rich selling webos apps (right now) Feb 12 22:50:50 do they count updates in the download count? Feb 12 22:51:06 like, if a really popular app just does an upload a day, do they multiply their numbers? Feb 12 22:51:14 s/upload/update/ Feb 12 22:51:14 destinal meant: like, if a really popular app just does an update a day, do they multiply their numbers? Feb 12 22:53:05 that would be ... bad Feb 12 22:54:44 http://developer.palm.com/blog/2010/02/now-available-private-distribution-of-beta-apps Feb 12 22:55:10 Hmm - how many developers will forget to click the "include in feeds" box Feb 12 22:56:21 I think it is automatically clicked to start Feb 12 22:57:41 ah, good. that wasn't clear from the article. Feb 12 22:58:43 Yep, just checked it again Feb 12 22:58:45 confirmed Feb 12 22:59:02 Tibfib: thx Feb 12 23:07:09 hi there Feb 12 23:07:30 is anyone here that knows about the exchange sync and google mail? Feb 12 23:11:56 there isn't really very many people who have spent time diging in that code chris Feb 12 23:26:05 moin Feb 12 23:26:44 hi all Feb 12 23:29:59 has anyone tried to distribute a C/sdl/evas app to that yet? Feb 12 23:33:09 ugh i just did a full reset and doctoring and now this "Palm Dialog" app wont go away Feb 12 23:33:24 destinal: yo Feb 12 23:35:47 farms: Did you uncomment BYPASS_ACTIVATION in the Makefile? Feb 12 23:36:24 not that i know of Feb 12 23:38:12 zsoc: hey Feb 12 23:38:13 farms: The instructions changed in one of the recent updates to the meta-doctor. In order for it to make any changes to the OS that gets flashed, you have to explicitly uncomment any patches you would like to enable. I ran into a similar problem last night, and updated the wiki when I figured out how to do it. See http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:MetaDoctorhttp://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:MetaDoctor Feb 12 23:39:11 rwhitby: Are you there? Feb 12 23:39:39 destinal: haven't seen you in awhile Feb 12 23:39:57 the link is dead Feb 12 23:40:03 rwhitby: even non-feed-included apps should be detectable unless they've changed the sequential app id's, but yeah you lose the good things about a feed Feb 12 23:40:17 crap, doubled it. Just use half of it :) Feb 12 23:40:20 Does creating live USTREAMs from your palm pre interest anyone? Feb 12 23:40:25 zsoc: I've been quiet -- mostly heads down at work. Feb 12 23:40:32 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:MetaDoctor Feb 12 23:40:40 destinal: yeah, i hate that :/ we really need to get involved in this for work so we can always be here lol Feb 12 23:41:17 farms: It looked a little too long :) Feb 12 23:41:40 zsoc: ustreams? Feb 12 23:41:44 qik? Feb 12 23:41:53 lol, so basically the led notifications patch, and me hiding vz nav caused this to happen? Feb 12 23:42:14 debilater: ustream.tv - people can stream live videos from events (concerts, etc), right now i believe it only supports iphone Feb 12 23:42:35 farms: those two patches causing _anything_ to happen is very unlikely Feb 12 23:43:29 VincentLaw: ping Feb 12 23:43:31 hmm how do i fix it? Feb 12 23:45:02 farms: I am not very knowledgeable, but it seems like just the act of flashing is what caused it to happen. When you get one from a cell phone company it hits you with the Palm activation thing, too. If it's the first boot Palm activation that you'd like to get around, use the meta-doctor directions in the wiki and make sure you uncomment the BYPASS_ACTIVATION line in the Makefile. Feb 12 23:45:40 farms: All the options are commented out by default, so you have to uncomment anything in the meta-doctor package of patches that you want done. Feb 12 23:52:32 zsoc: pong Feb 12 23:52:42 (zsoc: I notice better if you just PM me, I don't use highlighting) Feb 12 23:53:03 VincentLaw: can i have another one of those magic links? i'm going to debug it in an environment it works on, so i can figure out what plugins i need Feb 12 23:53:15 VincentLaw: or better yet, if you run linux, can get a log for me? Feb 12 23:55:48 bbi5minutes Feb 13 00:03:01 uhm Feb 13 00:03:07 >.> Feb 13 00:10:34 Jeah: I found out what caused it, I just did another full erase and a mobile hotspot app update popped up. Uninstalled mobile hotspot then reinstalled Feb 13 00:10:37 when away Feb 13 00:10:41 went* away Feb 13 00:11:23 farms: Ah. Cool. Feb 13 00:11:43 yea it was a little weird, did not want to mess with meta doctor Feb 13 00:11:51 now gotta reinstall preware Feb 13 00:11:53 :) Feb 13 00:11:57 Have fun. Feb 13 00:12:55 easily done with this self installer Feb 13 00:13:04 love what the community has put together Feb 13 00:13:12 has someone here some insight with upstart? Would it be possible to pass arguments to an upstart job? Feb 13 00:13:52 farms: Yeah, it's amazing what they've all done. Great example of how the advantages of FOSS are supposed to work! Feb 13 00:14:05 FOSS? Feb 13 00:14:44 farms: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Free_and_Open_Source_Software Feb 13 00:15:26 Indeed my friend Feb 13 00:17:05 not just opensource developers, all homebrew developers for webos are quite committed and dedicated to the platform and it's heartwarming to see how far things have gotten in such a short amount of time Feb 13 00:25:54 debilater: nope, don't know how to pass arguments to upstart scripts - I'd say you just put the stuff in a conf file and have the script read that. Feb 13 00:26:05 (but be careful, cause errors in an upstart script are fatal) Feb 13 00:27:44 Jay, are the creator of quick install? Feb 13 00:28:20 rwhitby: Hey, thank you very much for your work on webos-internals and meta-doctor. I have one quick suggestion for you. It would be extremely helpful if there were one or two sentence comments before the patching options in the Makefile so that it's a little more clear what each of them do and why one might want to use them. For example: "# INCREASE_VAR_SPACE increases the size of the /var partition to 2 GB. This allows ... [wh Feb 13 00:29:00 bah Feb 13 00:29:04 i borked my router heh Feb 13 00:29:45 Jeah: sure - do you want suggest appropriate verbiage? Feb 13 00:29:50 JayCanuck: Yeah, but it doesn't seem like homebrew would have come as far as fast if the platform wasn't FOSS. Feb 13 00:30:12 Jeah: JayCanuck does lots of FOSS too Feb 13 00:30:20 farms, yea, that's me Feb 13 00:30:45 rwhitby: I would love to, but I have no idea what many of the functions are or why they're useful. I'm asking as much because I don't understand as i am because other people might not understand. Feb 13 00:32:56 you have done great with quickinstaller, many thanks! Feb 13 00:34:21 rwhitby: The problem with volunteering to help with documentation is that if you're not already a developer, you don't know how to properly document the functionality (unless it's already documented elsewhere) and by the time a dev explains the functionality, they might as well have written the documentation. If you come up with something, though, I'd be happy to edit and prettify it. I just don't actually know the base informatio Feb 13 00:35:01 Jeah: You seem to be pretty well spoken :) Feb 13 00:35:08 Jeah: and the other problem is if the developer writes the doco, then they make too many assumptions about what is known by the reader. Feb 13 00:35:11 * zsoc tests ogg support Feb 13 00:35:42 zsoc: Thank you. But it only helps to confuse people more elegantly if I don't know what I'm talking about! :) Feb 13 00:36:17 anyone know where to see a log file for ez-ipupdate? Feb 13 00:38:16 rwhitby: Absolutely true. Here's what I'd suggest. Sentence 1: what the patch does: "BYPASS_ACTIVATION removes the Palm activation process that normally runs on the first boot of the device." Feb 13 00:39:47 rwhitby: Sentence 2: why it is useful... "This allows users to use the device even if they do not have access to 3G connectivity or would not like to go through the activation process." Feb 13 00:42:09 rwhitby: Sentence 3: how to do it... "Uncomment the line below to activate this patch in meta-doctor." (Optional because it might be a little too basic for someone who is already editing a Makefile and would probably be reading a wiki page or tutorial that would tell them to uncomment it. Could also be covered with one "Uncomment individual features to activate the patches" comment above all the features. Feb 13 00:42:24 ) :) Feb 13 00:43:25 rwhitby: If you can come up with similar information for all of the features, I'd be happy to read it over and suggest changes from the perspective of someone who doesn't really know what they're doing. :) Feb 13 00:44:22 rwhitby: Though really, I think sticking to that type of format would probably make it easier to remember what to include. Feb 13 00:45:59 zsoc: I think I well-spokened him to sleep! :-D Feb 13 00:47:25 Jeah: he's working i'm sure. It's noonish there. Feb 13 00:47:48 Jeah: Also, you didn't really _ask a question_ so much as make a statement. There may have been no reason to respond to it :) Feb 13 00:47:58 zsoc: Ah, right. Feb 13 00:48:07 Jeah: silence in this case probably means "go edit the wiki" ;) Feb 13 00:48:11 zsoc: Also true. Feb 13 00:48:17 Crap Feb 13 00:48:31 I just implemented ogg support in every way... except _have ogg vorbis files on my phone_ Feb 13 00:48:52 zsoc: haha. That'll make testing difficult, anyway. Feb 13 00:49:06 good thing there are many artists that provide free music from their websites :) Feb 13 00:49:16 zsoc: Or audio on wikipedia. Feb 13 00:49:19 * zsoc discovered a new artist he liked from testing flac files Feb 13 00:51:01 zsoc: By the way, I can't edit the wiki for this because 1) I don't know the information, and 2) it would be way easier to maintain and keep synchronized as comments in the Makefile itself. Feb 13 00:51:29 Jeah: then edit the Makefile ;) Feb 13 00:51:41 Or put something together in a document ready to be ported Feb 13 00:51:44 zsoc: See problem 1. Feb 13 00:51:59 hehe sorry :) Feb 13 00:53:47 what would be the best way to copy a file from novaterm to my computer? Feb 13 00:54:16 zsoc: Do you know what all of the meta-doctor patches do and why they're beneficial? Feb 13 00:55:02 Jeah: No.. that's a little too... "official" for me. Feb 13 00:55:18 Also ogg isn't working. I hate when things don't work the first time I try them. Especially when I'm _super_ confident. Feb 13 00:55:24 but the fileindexer is playing nice, so i'm still happy Feb 13 00:55:39 bummer. Feb 13 00:55:44 anyone know where to see a log file for ez-ipupdate? tzo is not updating to new IP even though ez-ipupdate says 'successful' Feb 13 00:56:15 an artist I know offers some remixes in a multitude of formats Feb 13 00:57:10 even ALAC which I'm guessing is a derivative of FLAC Feb 13 00:58:38 oh no it's apple lossless Feb 13 00:58:42 thanks google Feb 13 01:01:26 Can you comment in Makefiles with /* */ or do you have to use #? Feb 13 01:04:53 just submitted a patch to hide vz nav to dbsooners homepage :) Feb 13 01:06:12 anyway off to dinner, night all Feb 13 01:06:24 Bye. Feb 13 01:09:07 I just tried to install a patch and got an error Feb 13 01:09:12 (with preware) Feb 13 01:09:31 the hide amazon mp3 patch Feb 13 01:09:42 ErrorGenericMethodException Feb 13 01:15:08 that doesn't help much Feb 13 01:15:37 doesn't preware save an error log in media/internal? Feb 13 01:17:38 hmmm.. another patch just gave me the same problem Feb 13 01:17:53 oh Feb 13 01:17:58 md5sum mismatch Feb 13 01:27:40 nn7: might be an issue with your connection packets got corrupted Feb 13 01:27:50 pretty solid connection Feb 13 01:27:58 it advised i "ipkg update" Feb 13 01:28:08 I dropped to a terminal and did that, just gave me another prompt Feb 13 01:28:27 do I need to reboot after installing a patch? Feb 13 01:30:04 you shouldn't have to unless you want the patch to take affect Feb 13 01:30:15 ha Feb 13 01:30:31 is there a clean way to reboot? Feb 13 01:30:34 preferred method? Feb 13 01:32:48 crap. i hate running into a problem i have already run into and fixed and i can't remember how i fixed it the first time Feb 13 01:40:00 how do I figure out which version of webos I have? Feb 13 01:40:17 cat /etc/palm-build-info Feb 13 01:41:36 build number 98 Feb 13 01:42:22 cool Feb 13 01:42:46 hmmm.. Feb 13 01:42:59 if you look up the non-obvious keys in terminal it clears whatever you were doing Feb 13 01:44:46 ahh.. there's a new version of preware Feb 13 01:44:53 is there something I'm supposed to update before preware? Feb 13 01:45:55 nn7: no? Feb 13 01:46:01 Ok, who has some idea what the patches in Meta Doctor do and wants to read my proposed Makefile comments to see how much of what I made up is completely wrong? http://webos.pastebin.com/m5fc75e66 Feb 13 01:46:10 package manager Feb 13 01:46:38 "*** YOU MUST ALWAYS UPDATE THE PACKAGE MANAGER SERVICE BEFORE UPDATING PREWARE ***" Feb 13 01:47:42 looks like i had the latest version Feb 13 01:48:15 . Feb 13 01:50:11 ahh.. Feb 13 01:50:22 new version of preware notifies me that reboots are required after installing patches Feb 13 01:50:25 nice addition :) Feb 13 02:03:48 Jeah: I've pushed a new version of the Makefile including your documentation. Thanks. Feb 13 02:09:14 rwhitby: would you happen to know where i can find a log file for ez-ipupdate? is says 'request successful' but the ip doesnt update on tzo. Feb 13 02:09:25 cal__: UTSL Feb 13 02:10:01 utsl? Feb 13 02:10:02 (have you looked in /var/log/messages, or seen whether the program has an option for debugging?) Feb 13 02:10:13 Use The Source, Luke. Feb 13 02:10:45 yes i checked both places, its not logging there, and no log options in the programs --help info Feb 13 02:16:05 rwhitby: Great! Thanks for fixing my guesses, too. :) Feb 13 02:18:51 the instructions for installing ssh mention to log in with your pre-username Feb 13 02:18:55 how do I know what my pre-username is? Feb 13 02:19:11 rwhitby: I do like that you put the comments separate from the actual variables, too. I just thought they should go together so it would be more obvious that they needed to be updated whenever someone (you?) adds/removes/changes patches or how they work. Feb 13 02:20:10 nn7: any ssh instructions that talk about usernames are obsolete. Latest SSH packages installed via Preware use port 22, root, and ssh keys only. Feb 13 02:20:22 :/ Feb 13 02:20:30 like I said, start over with the webos website :) Feb 13 02:20:41 nn7: any time you're ready ... Feb 13 02:20:47 yeah, I know, sorry Feb 13 02:20:57 didn't mean to upset Feb 13 02:21:57 I have never used ssh keys Feb 13 02:22:12 those always seemed less safe than passwords Feb 13 02:22:34 nn7: not upset - the whole idea of a wiki is the the community keeps it up to date, not just a few individuals. Feb 13 02:22:56 so when someone complains about it, they are really complaining to themselves, not to me. Feb 13 02:22:58 nn7: you can use passwords along with keys Feb 13 02:23:13 err to unlock the key Feb 13 02:23:44 passphrase encrypted public key auth is more secure for several reasons than typical password or pam Feb 13 02:23:47 :P Feb 13 02:24:09 for one, no key exchange Feb 13 02:24:34 two it requires 2 phase crypto... what you have and what you know Feb 13 02:24:36 etc etc Feb 13 02:24:44 I have yet to find any instructions that refer to port 22 or keys Feb 13 02:24:48 er 2 phase authentication i meant sorry... tired Feb 13 02:25:01 nn7: description and homepage links for the ssh packages in Preware Feb 13 02:25:14 :9 Feb 13 02:25:16 :( Feb 13 02:25:23 loot-: well, if a key can be copied it's debatable as to whether it's more have or know Feb 13 02:25:33 I installed with preware, it said to check the website for instructions, and listed the webos as the website Feb 13 02:25:37 maybe I missed something Feb 13 02:25:45 did you click on the link in preware? Feb 13 02:26:01 ok, i'll try this again, while connected. Feb 13 02:26:02 WOO! Feb 13 02:26:04 OGG WORKS Feb 13 02:26:06 destinal: tunneled plain text passwords with key exchange is 100000000x more risky than a public key with "protected privates" Feb 13 02:26:06 loot-: have usually implies a unique (or at least copy-resistant) object but I get your meaning Feb 13 02:26:07 ok good Feb 13 02:26:16 no, I'll try that Feb 13 02:26:25 chastity belt for ssh's proverbial genitals Feb 13 02:26:27 yay me Feb 13 02:26:41 destinal: jump up and down with me Feb 13 02:26:46 destinal: if you are me, copying my key will not help you at all Feb 13 02:26:54 zsoc|food: OGG, w00t Feb 13 02:26:55 rwhitby: thanks Feb 13 02:26:59 zsoc|food: wtg Feb 13 02:27:03 i generated my own massive 8192 bit moduli Feb 13 02:27:07 :D Feb 13 02:27:11 i use 8192 bit host keys Feb 13 02:27:19 and i generate 8192 bit public keys Feb 13 02:28:06 loot-: sure but an RSA key is a lot harder to duplicate in theory than your key file so more a hard "what you have" factor, anyway I digress :) Feb 13 02:28:11 unless you've got.. oh i dont know.. 100 petaflops laying around Feb 13 02:28:15 it might take you longer than its worth Feb 13 02:28:16 :P Feb 13 02:28:33 * destinal is security geek (and does it for a living) Feb 13 02:28:44 same :P Feb 13 02:29:02 err and that should have read RSA keyFOB Feb 13 02:29:13 actually no Feb 13 02:29:16 securid etc Feb 13 02:29:18 i have code Feb 13 02:29:23 that will generate rsa fobs Feb 13 02:29:25 and ive tested it Feb 13 02:29:30 with 2 of my own rsa tokens Feb 13 02:29:30 hehe Feb 13 02:29:42 if i have your rsa fob Feb 13 02:29:44 for 3 minutes Feb 13 02:29:46 you're owned Feb 13 02:29:54 wow, how do you get the seed? Feb 13 02:30:07 its calculated Feb 13 02:30:10 from 3 tokens Feb 13 02:30:17 or 180 seconds Feb 13 02:30:20 however you want to look at it Feb 13 02:30:29 first time takes forever Feb 13 02:30:39 once you crack one token the rest are the same Feb 13 02:30:59 loot-: is there public research on this that I missed? sounds like a breakthrough. Feb 13 02:31:21 im not quite sure its public code Feb 13 02:31:25 but im sure its been leaked Feb 13 02:31:26 long time ago Feb 13 02:31:39 its not a trivial hack so it got ignored Feb 13 02:31:50 and requires physical access to your fob for several minutes Feb 13 02:31:51 I thought it was a hash and the original key was buried in epoxy on a chip Feb 13 02:31:53 plus Feb 13 02:32:00 in several of my contracts cases Feb 13 02:32:06 you need the pin to use the fob Feb 13 02:32:08 so its pointless Feb 13 02:32:43 destinal: seed is basically hash function one way Feb 13 02:33:09 but similar to how wifi cracking works Feb 13 02:33:18 with some initial data its not impossible Feb 13 02:33:31 like a short keyspace, predictable IV's ,etc Feb 13 02:33:34 once its cracked Feb 13 02:33:37 i can generate a token Feb 13 02:33:39 for any minute Feb 13 02:33:57 so i can generate tokens from the time i captured the fob all the way to current Feb 13 02:34:05 and keep regenerating them every 60 seconds just like the fob Feb 13 02:34:23 like i said Feb 13 02:34:26 far from trivial Feb 13 02:34:36 on this page: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:OpenSSH Feb 13 02:34:48 should /home/root/.ssh/authorized_keys be a file or a directory? Feb 13 02:35:02 oh, nevermind, the line below explains it Feb 13 02:35:06 and takes a fair amount of time if you dont have some serious bogos to flop around.. pun intended Feb 13 02:35:08 wow. so, sorry to take over the channel for this but cracking a key for a securid keyfob being practical with just three values is not something I've heard before Feb 13 02:35:28 really? this is old old old.. Feb 13 02:35:45 original code is from at least 2005ish Feb 13 02:36:03 like i said... everyone uses a pin now with the tokens anyways Feb 13 02:36:54 i dont like RSA's appliances either Feb 13 02:37:06 its basically a freaking windows box... Feb 13 02:37:18 anyone have experience with getting videos to play on the pre? Feb 13 02:37:25 the stuff I read in 2004 said tens of thousands of output codes required Feb 13 02:37:31 nn7: yes Feb 13 02:37:32 I tried vob, flv, mp4, and avi. It only sees mp4 but won't play any of them Feb 13 02:37:44 destinal: to make it practical without cpu power yeah sure it could take thousands Feb 13 02:37:58 nn7: prolly meta data... Feb 13 02:38:01 its not trivial with 3 tokens thats for sure Feb 13 02:38:14 zsoc|food: suggestions? Feb 13 02:38:31 that's what they get with 64 bits and a poor PRNG I suppose. Feb 13 02:38:39 average takes me a 80 something hours to crack on a xeon box... though its not distributed or multi threaded Feb 13 02:38:57 havent done it in at least a couple years either so im sure modern cpu's would be faster Feb 13 02:39:01 nn7: mp4 only, look up specifications for encoding, resolution, and framerate Feb 13 02:39:12 I think they changed their keys though so this may not work with newer systems Feb 13 02:39:19 err moved to AES or something Feb 13 02:39:25 nn7: mpeg4, h.263, and h.264 are the most supported codecs Feb 13 02:39:32 well if its finally aes-256 Feb 13 02:40:02 commute, bbiab Feb 13 02:40:23 destinal sounds like a crypto geek Feb 13 02:40:38 im sure he's been watching the sha3 race heat up Feb 13 02:42:41 skein ftw Feb 13 02:53:48 loot: I'm not good at picking the winners. I was a blowfish fan :P Feb 13 02:54:10 (in aes competition days) Feb 13 02:54:16 so I ran ssh-keygen on one of my machines, copied the line from .pub into the authorized_keys file on the phone but it's not letting me ssh in Feb 13 02:57:05 is there any way to debug what's going wrong here? Feb 13 02:59:03 ahh... -vvv Feb 13 02:59:23 loot: err twofish **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Feb 13 02:59:58 2010