**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Feb 14 02:59:57 2010 Feb 14 03:02:08 packquets Feb 14 03:21:47 reality9110: no worries, mate. if anyone else tests using those instructions, please let me know. Feb 14 03:22:13 rwhitby: You're outside the US, correct? Feb 14 03:25:14 reality9110: yep, I have access to GSM and Sprint devices outside of the US Feb 14 03:26:26 so... the ps3 is hacked now. i might consider utilizing it's processing capabilities... Feb 14 03:26:31 * rwhitby bbl - time for a bike ride Feb 14 03:30:42 zsoc, it's not hacked Feb 14 03:31:13 zsoc, there is a good paper written by a chief security expert about the cell BE security Feb 14 03:31:15 very interesting Feb 14 03:31:18 let me see if i can find it Feb 14 03:32:54 http://dslab.lzu.edu.cn:8080/members/zhangwei/doc/Cell_Broadband_Engine_processor_vault_security_architecture.pdf - that one .. very interesting paper Feb 14 04:10:08 bpadalino: I thought he was able to control the hypervisor, run arbitrary code, etc Feb 14 04:11:44 i think he was able to read memory he wasn't supposed to have access to Feb 14 04:12:56 this post i read was very good and led me to that other paper: http://streetskaterfu.blogspot.com/2010/01/ps3-is-hacked-urban-legend-continues.html Feb 14 04:14:02 "I have read/write access to the entire system memory, and HV level access to the processor. In other words, I have hacked the PS3" -geohot Feb 14 04:14:17 rwhitby: tested 0.9.24 works fine for me... Error app catalog installation in progress, try again later Feb 14 04:15:30 bpadalino: ouch, this architecture is pretty brutal Feb 14 04:16:02 I'd normally say "secure" but secure against its owner is a flaw Feb 14 04:16:09 rwhitby: 0.9.35 actig correctly as well Feb 14 04:16:35 actig/acting Feb 14 04:17:51 destinal: architecture is pretty intense .. i realize the quote he posted, but i think it was extremely premature Feb 14 04:19:19 well it's pretty clear he can run code on that one procssor, what's not clear is what tiny bit of the system's capabilities that code would gain access to Feb 14 04:19:26 sound about right? Feb 14 04:21:36 i suppose .. reading that blog post makes it seem relatively trivial .. like me typing novaterm and getting root on my pre Feb 14 04:22:01 yeah but it looks like the entire architecture is still against you even intercepting HV calls Feb 14 04:22:20 they thought a lot about the security model Feb 14 04:22:49 defective by very good design :P Feb 14 04:23:27 what makes it defective ? Feb 14 04:23:36 drm = defective by design Feb 14 04:23:49 in other words, I don't own my own machine Feb 14 04:24:36 also why I won't buy a ps3 Feb 14 04:25:23 I waited until it was clear we had root and that the bootloader wasn't cryptolocked before buying a pre. I like owning my stuff. Feb 14 04:26:12 understandable Feb 14 04:27:20 I'm very impressed by the work of the ps3 security designers, as much as I abhor their intent, though.. Feb 14 04:28:21 oh, it's very impressive work .. Feb 14 04:30:37 what is interesting is that this could be applied directly to you only running exactly what you want on your machine, and not giving other people execution capabilities on your own machine Feb 14 04:30:44 locks work both ways, right ? Feb 14 04:31:00 either keep everyone out .. or keep yourself all in Feb 14 05:19:51 Preware 0.9.24 and ipkgservice 0.9.35 released. Feb 14 06:20:40 /msg NickServ identify 29jerm11 Feb 14 06:21:05 "I know the Plans I have for you" Feb 14 06:24:28 coffee77: you're gonna want to change that :-) Feb 14 06:25:16 yeah...thanks...never actually done this before Feb 14 06:52:38 coffee77, wb Feb 14 06:53:07 I should have told you to change it, I"ve done that myself. Feb 14 06:53:24 thanks Feb 14 06:55:22 I should have figure out how to set the command in my client before I jump in head first in the shallow end. Feb 14 10:21:42 anybody seen xenoph0be programmer of "[Patch] Persistent Brightness Unlinked"? i'm having problems after installing this patch. Luna looping in constant reboot. Have to set back the changes this patch made with /etc/palm/luna.conf. Is there a way not using WebOSdoctor? I already tried novaterm and WebOSQI linux access but they seem not to recognise the pre while in the reboot-loop. Feb 14 10:44:40 is there a way accessing user data on usb media partition if luna isn't booting? perhaps while beeing in USB recovery mode? Feb 14 11:14:07 nobody here to help me accessing my pre Feb 14 11:42:20 not this time of night Feb 14 11:47:27 hehe oh well yeah just though some europeans are here Feb 14 11:55:53 gizmo21: you can run the initramfs from the doctor, and novaterm into the device. details are on the webos-internals.org last resort recovery page Feb 14 12:16:36 you mean like the nova-installer-image-castle.uImage- yeah the one is is the last thing i didn't try so far. i already tried the setenv bootargs "init=bin/sh"... before fsboot in bootie (something PuffTheMagic was advising here http://ibot.rikers.org/%23webos-internals/20090819.html.gz) but didn't work. Feb 14 12:18:13 aww, so neat everyone figured out the stuff Feb 14 12:35:18 gr8 i have a root prompt - thx now let's see if i can fix this luna.conf Feb 14 13:10:17 fixed it - luna.conf was 0bytes - seems the patch didn't create it properly. but could mv the luna.conf.webosinternals.orig over it... phone is up and running :) Feb 14 13:10:52 thx rwhitby for the tip Feb 14 15:44:42 anyone here? my pre started making a really wierd noise and now i have rebboted 4 times, taken sim and battery out and the keyboard wont work is it fked? Feb 14 15:45:12 i havent done anything to it it just did it by itself Feb 14 16:58:53 iSmite: ouch Feb 14 16:59:06 iSmite: have you tried doctoring? Feb 14 17:19:39 heyho! i am trouble having accessing my palm, i manually installed dropbear, but somehow i am having trouble connecting to the server from outside(laptop) from within i can perfectly connect Feb 14 17:20:29 airmack: is the laptop on the same wifi network as the device? Feb 14 17:20:31 is there some packet filtering on the phone that i have to turn off first of all? Feb 14 17:20:34 yeap Feb 14 17:20:42 i can ping it Feb 14 17:20:50 airmack: there IS iptables filtering -- how did you install dropbear? Feb 14 17:21:53 wget dropbear from my local server created an RSS key and started the daemon Feb 14 17:22:24 everything done through novaterm Feb 14 17:22:33 hmm nmap is also not showing any open ports Feb 14 17:22:52 dropbear is working as i can connect localy Feb 14 17:23:02 airmack: wait, you copied what, like the running binary from an x86 server? or a cross compiled ARM build? Feb 14 17:23:20 of course cross compiled ;) Feb 14 17:23:46 ah ok cool :) yeah the iptables need to be added to an upstart script Feb 14 17:23:56 if you want you can install dropbear from optware.. Feb 14 17:24:02 it includes the event.d script Feb 14 17:24:21 hmm somehow i don't like the optware thingy Feb 14 17:24:48 optware's incredibly handy, the ability to ipkg-opt install bash (etc) and have all the crosscompiled builds already there Feb 14 17:25:02 and i hope to get some insight how to get everything done Feb 14 17:25:08 including crosscompiling and stuff Feb 14 17:25:36 airmack: ah, yeah, if you're in it to learn all the nuts and bolts then your approach is good Feb 14 17:29:12 something which really bothers me was that the link o the bootsrap script was some obfuscated link Feb 14 17:30:06 oh well you don't have to bootstrap either Feb 14 17:30:29 the script is http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/bootstrap/blobs/raw/master/optware-bootstrap-manual.sh Feb 14 17:30:41 but before that we always used to do it by hand step by step Feb 14 17:31:04 yeap that is what i was having a look at Feb 14 17:33:48 anyway http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/unstable/dropbear_0.52-5_arm.ipk is the dropbear package, you can extract it with something like mkdir tmp; cd tmp; tar xvzf ../dropbear_0.52-5_arm.ipk; tar xvzf data.tar.gz Feb 14 17:34:15 destinal: i think my problem is just the iptables Feb 14 17:34:32 as i said the dropbear server and client is working on the phone itself Feb 14 17:34:41 but thanks :) Feb 14 17:35:03 right, but my point is, we have an upstart script. oh wait, maybe it's downloaded seperately and not in that ipk Feb 14 17:35:18 for the right iptables commands Feb 14 17:35:29 ah that would be handy Feb 14 17:36:07 yup http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/bootstrap/blobs/raw/master/etc/event.d/optware-dropbear Feb 14 17:36:17 except of course you want 22 not 222 Feb 14 17:36:25 not sure why the optware one did 222 Feb 14 17:36:38 1/.4 coems out tomorrow? Feb 14 17:36:59 entity-: there's a totally unsubstantiated rumor to that effect :) Feb 14 17:38:46 i bet they relase it tonight Feb 14 17:38:53 8PM EST Feb 14 17:39:06 seems like a 3 days weekend would be an awful time to release anything Feb 14 17:44:45 destinal: thanks that got me working :) Feb 14 17:48:09 airmack: cool, you're welcome. hey, are you running scratchbox2 for stuff with configure scripts? if you haven't run across that yet, it's worth checking out Feb 14 17:48:51 wish I'd known about it when I started cross compiling things Feb 14 17:52:08 hmm i am using the instruction from preyourmind.com (as i am using gentoo) and so the first thing i needed to get working on my cellphone was ssh now i can finally switch back from ubuntu to gentoo Feb 14 17:52:38 hmm Feb 14 17:52:40 preyourmind.org Feb 14 17:52:41 interesting Feb 14 17:52:50 ah yeah right Feb 14 17:52:58 what's the goal of that userland? Feb 14 17:53:07 i.e. which middleware is it going to use? Feb 14 17:53:45 mickeyl: ask PuffTheMagic_ ;) Feb 14 18:00:51 askme what Feb 14 18:01:31 gfy Feb 14 18:02:12 PuffTheMagic_: btw thanks for the website Feb 14 18:02:16 helped me quite a bit Feb 14 18:04:09 yeah, I guess gentoo is okay :P Feb 14 18:04:16 what website? Feb 14 18:04:20 what did i do Feb 14 18:04:28 PuffTheMagic_: pre'd his mind Feb 14 18:04:32 oh Feb 14 18:04:36 lol Feb 14 18:04:39 that should be down Feb 14 18:04:40 wtf Feb 14 18:05:04 airmack: i promise i will have a real working portage dev kit solution out soon Feb 14 18:05:08 qemu free Feb 14 18:05:34 PuffTheMagic_: the stuff on that website, it's not that already? Feb 14 18:05:54 well that needs a gentoo chroot Feb 14 18:05:58 well i just compiled the chain by myself ;) Feb 14 18:06:05 destinal: i want to try using the portage build that google just came out with Feb 14 18:06:12 i am hoping it will be gentoo free Feb 14 18:06:18 since they are using it on ubuntu Feb 14 18:47:15 PuffTheMagic_: what are you doing about the requirements of other packages that need >sys-libs/ncurses-5.4-r6 ? Feb 14 18:48:12 nothing Feb 14 18:48:23 u either use a version that is compat with that version of ncurses Feb 14 18:48:33 or u make apatch that backports the ncurses changes Feb 14 18:49:17 ok Feb 14 19:11:23 hey anyone seen a patch to remove the 'add call' button when youre in a call in the upper right hand corner? Feb 14 19:11:28 i hit that damn thing so much Feb 14 19:28:10 keith: if you figure out what creates the button and want to submit a patch, that's great :) Feb 14 19:28:30 I haven't heard of any existing now but probably other share your annoyance (not me personally) Feb 14 19:43:35 It looks like you'd have to hit the activecall-assistant.js & activecall-scene.html to get rid of the add call button. Feb 14 19:52:56 PuffTheMagic_: me too, that would be awesome Feb 14 19:54:34 portage on ubuntu Feb 14 19:56:07 it would be portage on any distro Feb 14 20:07:54 so... I swapped from ubuntu to mint Feb 14 20:59:46 morning Feb 14 20:59:55 morning Feb 14 21:00:14 If anyone sees debilator, please tell him his repo for fishfillets has been ready for a day, but his email address is bouncing. Feb 14 21:03:52 destinal: you shoudl have pointed airmack to the optware package on ipkg.preware.org Feb 14 21:04:16 still need help please- my pre made this wierd buzzing noise, ive taken the battery out 5 times now but it wont let me make calls only texts, any idea? also the keyboard stopped working and only just started to work again i only doctored it 3 days ago Feb 14 21:05:12 iSmite: sounds like hardware problems to me Feb 14 21:07:44 should i dr it again or take it back? Feb 14 21:09:05 iSmite: sounds like hardware problems, but it wouldn't hurt to doctor it one more time anyway Feb 14 21:09:15 ok thanks Feb 14 21:09:26 you'll lose everything if you trade it in for a refurb anyway :p Feb 14 21:12:06 so I see that Samsung's new OS uses Enlightenment... Feb 14 21:12:28 jeyboard could be software though Feb 14 21:12:33 keyboard Feb 14 21:13:18 i wont get a refurb ill get brand you unopened Feb 14 21:13:21 new Feb 14 21:14:56 I'd doctor before giving it back Feb 14 21:15:16 not to try and fix, just for good measure Feb 14 21:15:41 don't need your profile on another phone out there Feb 14 21:16:24 yep Feb 14 21:16:58 thx Feb 14 21:18:05 I think that probably why some people have issues with their phone logging out of the profile Feb 14 21:18:52 Kyusaku: they'd probably want to test it at the store, and they can't really test it without the palm profile logged in Feb 14 21:23:52 true. I guess, you could request to full reset it if they accept it Feb 14 21:35:35 or change the profile password Feb 14 22:33:19 i just doctored...reinstalling patches, and coming up with an error on the browser mega mix Feb 14 22:33:53 Postinst - 3 out of 6 hunks FAILED -- saving rejects to file usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.browser/app/controllers/page-assistant.js.rej Feb 14 22:34:17 Failed..ErrorGenericMethodException: Failure during post-install script execution Feb 14 22:34:30 I have no other browser patches installed Feb 14 22:35:42 knickrox13: Before doctoring it helps to run a Full Erase (make sure you backup your files via USB first) and then use the Doctor. This will eliminate any remnants of patches that were partially uninstalled. Feb 14 22:36:09 I did that too Feb 14 22:41:02 knickrox13: In which case I'd recommend uninstalling your other patches one by one until it succeeds - patches can conflict with eachother even if they're not intended for the same function Feb 14 22:42:10 Well thats really dumb Feb 14 22:42:21 I doctored so that I'd have no problems Feb 14 22:43:59 Unfortunately rooting + hacking your phone isn't always smooth sailing :P Feb 14 22:47:54 You're welcome <3 Feb 14 22:51:00 there are other methods Feb 14 22:51:07 mostly preferred in this channel Feb 14 23:01:16 yo any web gurus here Feb 14 23:02:18 morning Feb 14 23:04:01 morning rwhitby Feb 14 23:04:48 jacques: if you see debilator, please let him know games/fishfillet.git is waiting for him. both the email addresses I have for him are bouncing. Feb 14 23:05:01 rwhitby, will do Feb 14 23:07:57 I reckon it's time to create a PreCentral updates feed. Feb 14 23:14:37 rwhitby: did you see what he was saying? airmack was totally low level, do it yourself, cross compiling software and setting up iptables. preware packages wouldn't be his cup of tea, I think Feb 14 23:15:23 rwhitby: got the impression that he was doing this to learn and this way he learned more Feb 14 23:19:21 destinal: sure, but the upstart script he was looking for is in the optware package on ipkg.preware.org, not on the nslu2-linux.org feeds. Feb 14 23:21:13 http://www.precentral.net/webos-internals-games-emulators-and-pdks Feb 14 23:28:07 hi all Feb 14 23:28:12 hey JayCanuck Feb 14 23:28:49 looks like my Preset Reset release went under the radar, lol Feb 14 23:29:38 http://code.google.com/p/preset-reset/ Feb 14 23:30:25 so how's everyone today? Feb 14 23:34:29 I saw the tweet. I think we should expand it out to a full-blown profiles app, just like PalmOS had. Feb 14 23:35:36 being able to turn cellular data connections off overnight (forcing wifi) would be good for me. similarly for triggers like putting it on touchstone after 9pm causes power to be removed from the backlight. Feb 14 23:43:19 a good profiles app would be very useful. GPS triggers too Feb 14 23:44:34 JayCanuck: another OSS release? nice Feb 14 23:45:30 yea, I had some of that in mind when designing it so I kept it very modular Feb 14 23:45:41 so by reset, does it mean reboot? Feb 14 23:45:46 yea Feb 14 23:46:36 cool, the functionality looks like it could be handy, but I'm trying to think of what I would use it for Feb 14 23:46:59 I don Feb 14 23:47:09 I don't remember wanting to schedule one before Feb 14 23:47:11 well, it does sync time ;) Feb 14 23:47:54 it's mainly for clearing memory leaks and such Feb 14 23:47:55 yeah, that's cool. there's a bunch of stuff it could be extended to do though that would be very useful Feb 14 23:48:02 yea Feb 15 00:00:08 hmm. My Pre has been freezing on restart. Feb 15 00:00:17 little restart logo gets stuck Feb 15 00:00:45 mine too. Feb 15 00:00:50 whats good Feb 15 00:00:56 really? glad it's not just me Feb 15 00:01:05 and then it does the same thing during boot Feb 15 00:01:16 gets stuck on the palm logo Feb 15 00:01:27 take out the battery, and then it boots normally Feb 15 00:01:33 yeah, that's what I'm doing Feb 15 00:01:49 ah, such a love-hate relationship with webOS :p Feb 15 00:02:11 i've decided I'm going to doctor the phone once 1.4 comes out Feb 15 00:02:17 i've never doctored it Feb 15 00:02:22 I hadn't either until recently Feb 15 00:02:25 this is sort of a fresh-ish doctor Feb 15 00:02:33 so I dunno if it'll help Feb 15 00:03:10 i believe it's something in homebrew that's causing it, so at least it'll give me a chance to start on a clean slate Feb 15 00:03:16 and eliminate some stuff I don't need Feb 15 00:03:25 so many patches and apps installed Feb 15 00:03:28 could be, but it could also just be something buggy about webOS Feb 15 00:03:44 yeah I know webos has bugs too Feb 15 00:03:55 I've found bugs in the SDL lib Feb 15 00:03:56 I haven't really applied that many patches Feb 15 00:04:42 and I can't for the life of me think of what patch/service/app could affect something that low level Feb 15 00:06:10 could be some SDL app, since I've been playing with those a lot lately. That pokes around at the graphics hardware. Feb 15 00:06:58 could the nand/sd be corrupt? Feb 15 00:07:09 it's way to bearly for any patches Feb 15 00:07:23 unless the stuff rwhitby was doing caused a problem Feb 15 00:07:28 with the tlv values Feb 15 00:07:39 I'll have to see if I can successfully reboot the device after a fresh start Feb 15 00:07:43 no idea Feb 15 00:08:09 doctor isn't complete Feb 15 00:08:56 yep, sure can. I'm betting something leaves the hardware in a weird state. Feb 15 00:09:15 Might be NesEm. Feb 15 00:10:16 haven't seen anything that does something with pre hardware that prevents warm restart, yet... Feb 15 00:10:44 lemme see if I can do it after launching NesEm. It's hard to say since the Pre is usually on all day before rebooting. Feb 15 00:11:03 have you guys tried the hold down power button, flick mute off and on three times, keep holding power button for a few seconds, to see if a warm restart that way helps? Feb 15 00:11:25 holy cow. Is that some hidden way to reboot? haha Feb 15 00:11:44 yeah I use it instead of pulliung battery usually Feb 15 00:12:00 I use the key combo Feb 15 00:12:03 Sym Orange R Feb 15 00:12:11 this works even when that doesn't Feb 15 00:12:15 cool Feb 15 00:12:33 I'll try that the next time it gets frozen Feb 15 00:14:07 you think sgx crashed? Feb 15 00:14:18 I'd like to watch dmesg or something sometime to see why this takes so long to boot Feb 15 00:14:29 sgx? Feb 15 00:14:35 gpu Feb 15 00:14:40 dunno Feb 15 00:15:16 maybe something the dsp Feb 15 00:15:29 if warm reset doesn't work that could be it Feb 15 00:15:49 what is the difference between a warm reset and the trick destinal mentioned? Feb 15 00:16:29 not sure Feb 15 00:16:45 I assumed webOS just executes 'reboot' or whatever Feb 15 00:18:25 I remember Treos had a similar emergency reboots with the mute switch Feb 15 00:19:08 so that might be hardware/firmware Feb 15 00:19:22 yeah Feb 15 00:19:26 probably just as scary as pulling the battery, but easier Feb 15 00:20:04 like a PC reset switch Feb 15 00:21:28 <=3 months until I get EVDO. 1x is killing me. Feb 15 00:21:39 (unless Sprint moves the date back again) Feb 15 00:22:23 I hate accidentally starting Preware while I'm in 1x. Then I've gotta interrupt it and restart Luna. Feb 15 00:23:56 have you bugged sprint for one of those EVDO routers for free? Feb 15 00:24:07 I have not Feb 15 00:24:12 you mean like what rwhitby has? Feb 15 00:24:37 not sure what rod has Feb 15 00:24:54 1x? Feb 15 00:24:57 something you stick in your house that tunnels traffic over your Internet connection Feb 15 00:25:02 ah Feb 15 00:25:06 er Feb 15 00:25:06 no Feb 15 00:25:11 that was to Kyusaku :p Feb 15 00:25:21 1X is a ridiculously slow data connection Feb 15 00:25:24 just use wifi in that case Feb 15 00:25:27 yes Feb 15 00:25:37 but sometimes my phone hasn't associated and I don't notice Feb 15 00:25:40 yep, I used it for three years as my only connection Feb 15 00:26:04 why isn't Preware caching? Feb 15 00:26:13 but I remember when people first got the Pre there a bunch of threads about people would call up Sprint to complain about their coverage and gave you one of those EVDO routers for free Feb 15 00:26:33 just use wifi Feb 15 00:26:42 or do you mean mifi Feb 15 00:27:03 I don't think it was called mifi back then Feb 15 00:27:15 lemme see if I can dig up the threads Feb 15 00:30:24 oh my bad it was an airave Feb 15 00:30:41 which I don't believe supports evdo Feb 15 00:30:53 tlp: I don't have any evdo router thingo Feb 15 00:30:59 ah Feb 15 00:31:10 maybe it was just something someone suggested to you at some point Feb 15 00:32:39 the mute switch flick reboot is in the kernel Feb 15 00:33:24 tmzt: Preware does cache - have you set the update frequency to manual ? Feb 15 00:37:03 OK, who wants a version of Preware which only shows Free apps ? Feb 15 00:37:34 (by a preference, which defaults to off) Feb 15 00:38:24 I don't care about price filtering personally Feb 15 00:38:34 so that's a no for me Feb 15 00:39:39 cool, it will continue to work as you desire out of the box. Feb 15 00:40:13 I would like that actually Feb 15 00:41:17 My position is that users should see all the excellent commercial apps that developers have put hours of work into, but should also be able to filter them all out if they choose. Especially the users in countries where you cannot purchase apps (now, and maybe never). Feb 15 00:42:03 I am not opposed to paid apps or anything, but it is kind of annoying to sift through Feb 15 00:42:21 sometimes I'll install something "free" that turns out to just be a beta, and I don't realize it because I didn't pay close attention to the description Feb 15 00:43:16 well at least you have the choice, in germany at this moment it is 'free only' apps Feb 15 00:43:35 yeah Feb 15 00:43:46 we went through that period in the states though too :p Feb 15 00:43:49 but who buys a 400Euro phone to use an fart app :( Feb 15 00:44:11 when I bought my pre there isn't much in the way of apps, paid or otherwise. Feb 15 00:44:52 but I saw the potential it had when I saw the stuff coming out of this channel/community :p Feb 15 00:45:05 wasn't* Feb 15 00:46:51 PuffTheMagic_: what is your way of turning the compiled package(tbz2) into an ipkg? Feb 15 00:47:25 well portage can create tbz2's of the pacakges Feb 15 00:47:33 so those could be converted to ipks easily Feb 15 00:47:37 airmack: what are you trying to distribute? Feb 15 00:47:55 could probably even patch in support for direct ipkg support Feb 15 00:48:18 PuffTheMagic_: that is what i was/am looking for Feb 15 00:49:13 airmack: unless you're talking about making something like an SDL app or using /opt like optware there's probably not a good ipkg lib to install your binaries into Feb 15 00:49:23 so at this moment i did the ipkg-building manually Feb 15 00:50:10 airmack: using the rootfs ipkg lib that palm uses is said to have caused serious problems with the official software update tool Feb 15 00:51:38 so /opt/ (/opt/var/lib/ipkg) like optware or /media/cryptofs/apps (/media/cryptofs/apps/var/lib/ipkg) like app installation uses would be safe places Feb 15 00:52:22 hmm i was hoping i could use the ipkg that is already on the phone Feb 15 00:53:44 yeah, I hear you, it's said that when mytether installed using that on tons of device there was a problem with the software update tool thinking it needed to reupdate over and over again. now, that could have just been because it installed files in / but the conjecture is using the root ipkg lib may have been part or all of the problem there Feb 15 00:54:00 I don't know if anyone has researched it thoroughly enough to say for sure Feb 15 00:54:20 but there's a reason optware uses /opt for everything, to avoid conflicting with palm stuff Feb 15 00:57:59 airmack: you can use the ipkg on the phone, with -o /media/cryptofs/apps as the offline root. if you don't give an offline root, you will pollute the palm rootfs ipkg database and have OTA update hassles. Feb 15 00:58:23 destinal: it's not conjecture, it was confirmed by Palm engineers. Feb 15 00:58:27 rwhitby: I think he's talking about installing system binaries Feb 15 00:58:33 rwhitby: not custom apps Feb 15 00:58:55 so something like we did with /opt for optware may make more sense Feb 15 01:01:03 rwhitby: while I put a lot of stock in what palm engineers say, it would still be nice to prove out the issue experimentally and understand more about it Feb 15 01:01:36 do some update traces, etc Feb 15 01:02:20 destinal: sure Feb 15 01:07:05 destinal: optware has a general philosophy (which has proven very useful over at least 20 different router, NAS and smartphone platforms) of staying completely independent of the vendor firmware, not replacing it. That's what distinguishes it from openwrt.org and openembedded.org (both of which I develop for too, and both of which have much the same set of packages). Feb 15 01:10:27 airmack: if you're interested in the modem interface side of things, and are OK with replacing the webOS user interface with something different, the freesmartphone.org guys are also working on the Pre. Feb 15 01:17:50 good night everybody Feb 15 01:17:58 night airmack Feb 15 01:20:10 rwhitby: I still don't have a Pre Feb 15 01:20:27 I'm trying to understand why 1x data would affect startup time of Preware Feb 15 01:20:51 tmzt: if you update on each launch, then it will download a couple of MBs of data. Feb 15 01:20:57 (if you have all feeds enabled) Feb 15 01:21:04 I see Feb 15 01:21:11 that might have been his issue then Feb 15 01:21:26 if you don't update on launch, it will download nothing until you start looking at icons and screenshots Feb 15 01:23:49 that's the default Feb 15 01:24:04 and if you kill it while it's doing that, it gets left in a state where you have to restart Luna or something Feb 15 01:24:33 while it's updating, just go into preferences and change it. then restart. Feb 15 01:25:06 (it will keep downloading in the background, but a reboot will fix that) Feb 15 01:26:02 ah Feb 15 01:26:18 Does the author of NesEm hang out in here? Feb 15 01:27:06 Preware 0.9.25 in alpha testing feed with a non-default preference for only showing free apps. Feb 15 01:27:10 the on-screen controls are a bit weird. All of the homebrew stuff I've tried so far works a bit better. Feb 15 01:34:01 tlp: NesEM is a commercial application, isn't it? Feb 15 01:35:19 outside of app catalog pay app Feb 15 01:36:03 they must have an official support channel if you pay for it, right? Feb 15 01:37:17 rwhitby: no no! thats your job to provide support here for free for them! Feb 15 01:37:59 raster: ah, of course. Just like we do for Palm ;-) Feb 15 01:38:11 they have their own site with forums Feb 15 01:42:47 rwhitby: thats how it works! of course! Feb 15 01:42:48 :) Feb 15 01:43:09 raster: anything interesting at MWC ? Feb 15 01:43:26 (e.g. anything you've been working on)( Feb 15 01:45:17 rwhitby: I was just demoing it. It'll run roms <40K Feb 15 01:45:36 I got it from Preware though. Feb 15 01:45:55 rwhitby: i'm not there. Feb 15 01:45:57 :) Feb 15 01:46:05 ah, it's free for tiny roms and paid for normal roms? Feb 15 01:46:11 rwhitby: but there may be... dunno till i hear something Feb 15 01:46:18 right Feb 15 01:46:27 raster: bada is being released. yawn. Feb 15 01:46:30 although even tiny roms will "crash" after a while Feb 15 01:46:35 rwhitby: indeed. yawn. Feb 15 01:46:43 I doubt I'll buy this thing though. Not worth $10. I'd rather spend a weekend trying to make fceu work. Feb 15 01:49:15 the on-screen d-pad requires you to lift your finger off of the screen and tap the direction you want to go; seems weird considering dtzWill (I think) got VBA working pretty well. Feb 15 02:20:47 rwhitby: 0.9.25 working as expected! Feb 15 02:23:13 sslow_: thx for the report Feb 15 02:34:53 hello all Feb 15 02:36:44 anyway to rotate photos on the pre Feb 15 02:38:15 not that i am aware of Feb 15 02:38:45 havent tried the synaptics rotate gesture yet though Feb 15 02:39:13 rotate gesture? Feb 15 02:40:17 rotate gesture on synaptics pads is hold bottom left or right corner and make a curving motion from the top of that corner to the bottom of the other corner Feb 15 02:40:28 doesnt seem to work on the pre though Feb 15 02:40:50 :( Feb 15 02:41:23 it just invokes the zoom Feb 15 02:41:32 was it an image you took or one that was sent to you? Feb 15 02:41:56 email attatchment Feb 15 02:43:20 maybe 1.4 will have something Feb 15 02:43:30 we need basic photo editing onboard Feb 15 02:43:37 I sure hope so Feb 15 02:43:48 anyway back to work, ttyl Feb 15 02:44:21 lates Feb 15 02:51:44 hehe. I had an answer for him. oh well. I imagine future versions of webOS will have that sort of thing though. Feb 15 02:52:16 you can rotate the phone in view mode and take a screenshot of the rotation; it works. :p **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Feb 15 02:59:57 2010