**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Mar 09 02:59:58 2010 Mar 09 03:09:52 destinal: yeah, i've experimented with booting into the installer stuff, i just haven't felt sufficiently motivated yet :( Mar 09 03:26:55 Is there a reason why the camera app stalls whenever you get a text? Mar 09 03:32:51 Mine goes to the splash screen Mar 09 03:33:32 mine just hangs and the camera doesn't work again until i reboot Mar 09 03:34:08 verizon is pushing out 1.4 now apparently Mar 09 03:36:15 I wonder if its associated with a patch because my friends pre doesnt do it Mar 09 03:36:34 I have to minimize and open the app again for it to work Mar 09 03:47:36 Anyone have a idea? Mar 09 03:50:57 anyone know if the info in /sys/devices/w1_bus_master1/* ( the battery ) is charge controller derived or reported by the battery itself? Mar 09 03:53:58 the battery seems to be smart enough to report its "name" and "mac", but my sample size is 1. Mar 09 03:59:50 hahaha im on my pre Mar 09 03:59:51 in x Mar 09 03:59:54 on xchat Mar 09 03:59:57 xd Mar 09 04:00:00 xD Mar 09 04:00:08 I'm having trouble bypassing activation with meta doctor Mar 09 04:00:21 test Mar 09 04:00:27 ur doing it wrong Mar 09 04:00:30 basic keyboard support Mar 09 04:00:35 #webos is not working Mar 09 04:00:46 in the makefile i enabled BYPASS_ACTIVATION MAKE_FIRSTUSE_VISIBLE and ENABLE_DEVELOPER_MODE and yet still getting the activation screen can anyone help? Mar 09 04:02:19 jacques, on x in xchat typing it up xD Mar 09 04:02:32 I tested it for another user a week ago and doctored my phone which was working perfectly fine, you're doing it wrong Mar 09 04:03:11 lol rootwarn hehe Mar 09 04:03:33 sorry ill stop spamming channel, fun proof of concept Mar 09 04:03:36 I could give you my makefile if you'd like Mar 09 04:04:00 haha that was fun :[ Mar 09 04:04:22 Kyusaku, you talking to me? Mar 09 04:04:43 boskap: I see no one else complaining about meta-doctor Mar 09 04:04:54 I'm still having trouble installing Preware (Yes, I know, this is only for official webos discussion, but #webos will not work for me.) Mar 09 04:05:17 preware is a webos-internals project Mar 09 04:05:35 Kyusaku, the makefile would help Mar 09 04:05:41 one sec Mar 09 04:06:28 yoshiness: you can start by giving us all the details about where you are now, what versions of everything you are using, exactly which set of instructions you are following, what you have done so far in those instructions, what happened, what you expected to happen, what's going wrong. Mar 09 04:07:39 boskap: did you enable touch ran first use ? Mar 09 04:08:06 no Mar 09 04:08:14 only enabled those 3 Mar 09 04:08:26 that's what stops the first use app taking exclusive control of the screen Mar 09 04:08:43 ohh Mar 09 04:08:45 I'm using WebOS Quick Install 3.02 on webOS v1.4. I'm installing the Package Manager Service and Preware, and the program lets them install, but when I launch them, Preware tells me the Package Manager Service is not installed. I've made sure developer mode is enabled, and I'm sure 3.02 is the latest Quick Install version. Mar 09 04:09:07 And for some reason, Preware will not uninstall Mar 09 04:09:25 It sorta does, but when I restart my phone, it's back again. Mar 09 04:09:32 yoshiness: ok, did you wait until your cellular signal returned before starting Preware ? Mar 09 04:09:40 Yes Mar 09 04:10:10 will creating a /forcefsck run fsck when webOS reboots? Mar 09 04:11:23 I erased my phone with webOS doctor yesterday, and now Preware is more difficult to install than ever Mar 09 04:11:46 yoshiness: did you partial or full erase as well as webOS doctoring? Mar 09 04:12:42 Well, it said I'd need to manually restore my pictures, videos music, etc., but I didn't have to cause it was still on my phone, so I'm gonna say partial erase Mar 09 04:13:01 Oh wait Mar 09 04:15:14 I also think I've got a bad memory leak because I've got 6.8 GB remaining, but it won't let me install anything more cause it says my disk is full. The phone is also VERY slow. Mar 09 04:18:35 yoshiness: what host OS are you using? Mar 09 04:19:14 Windows XP Mar 09 04:19:30 I've had Preware install just fine many times before. Mar 09 04:40:00 Oh lordy... This is becoming quite the ordeal. Mar 09 04:41:27 is there a hack to add a "Download URL" option to the browser? Ideally something activated by orange button-tap Mar 09 04:42:40 yoshiness: so you're seeing enough other weird stuff that I'm going to assume the problem is localised to your device Mar 09 04:44:30 FFS, I think it's finally resolved. Mar 09 04:44:53 I just now managed to update the feeds with no errors, and now it's going. Mar 09 04:47:43 hehe xchat, yay Mar 09 04:52:14 epv: :D Mar 09 04:52:24 i'm forwarding kde now... LOL. Mar 09 04:52:26 * dtzWill dicks around Mar 09 04:56:33 I have an old version of my PalmDatabase.db3 file, and I was wondering how I can get a number out of it. Mar 09 05:20:46 ird: sqlite3 PalmDatabase.db3 .dump Mar 09 05:21:28 FYI: ipkg.preware.org is switching to the ipkg3.preware.org mirror now in DNS Mar 09 05:23:15 dtzwill: do you have a build tree for X or whatever i can play around with? Mar 09 05:24:19 epv: it's in the cross_compile.git, under nonworking. go to the xorg-server one and 'make stage' and... wait :) Mar 09 05:24:29 rwhitby: sorry to bug you but you probably know off the top of your head, what changed on the palm-generate for creating new scenes? Mar 09 05:24:30 oh, cool, ok Mar 09 05:24:31 epv: if you do try be sure to post back if you have any issues, particularly building, etc Mar 09 05:24:35 sure. Mar 09 05:24:46 hm maybe i should use the build cluster at work :) Mar 09 05:24:46 Templarian: no idea. I don't do webos. Mar 09 05:25:00 lol Mar 09 05:25:12 yet you know so much about it.... Mar 09 05:25:13 epv: well unfortunately afaict the cross_compile.git's way of doing dependencies (i'm glad for it, but still) limits the make to single execution Mar 09 05:25:21 sequential build anyway Mar 09 05:25:37 so cluster probably wouldn't help :( Mar 09 05:25:40 haha Mar 09 05:25:47 yeah i was just pondering the pain of trying to make that work Mar 09 05:25:59 halfhalo_T400: most of us help out but know little it's a trade off. Mar 09 05:27:50 there are a whole bunch of dependencies, silly modular X Mar 09 05:28:07 yeah, but that doesn't mean its not true. Mar 09 05:28:13 * halfhalo_T400 means it as a compliment Mar 09 05:28:37 and keyboard support is basic for now, just alpha (and caps), period, comma, backspace, space, enter... I think that's it. doing things right will take a different route on a different day Mar 09 05:28:45 just FYI if you do run it and go wtf many keys don't work :) Mar 09 05:31:43 of course :) Mar 09 05:32:20 gah codesourcery slow downloads ugh Mar 09 05:32:40 epv: yeah it can be a pita :/. but also freeeeeeeeeeee hehe Mar 09 05:50:47 rwhitby: let me know if you need help with nginx/varnish/sysctl configs for preware Mar 09 05:51:56 jhojho: I think we're good now. Our varnish cache is getting an average 98% hit rate :-) Mar 09 05:52:51 mmm varnish Mar 09 05:53:16 rwhitby: cool! it would be cool if you posted your nginx/varnish configs on the wiki (sanitized). there's a dearth of good configs out there... Mar 09 05:56:00 epv: varnish is teh goodness Mar 09 05:57:51 yeah, I used it at the Internet Archive briefly and it was really great Mar 09 06:07:48 Hello Mar 09 06:10:16 hello! Mar 09 06:20:36 whee! MHS working now... brb Mar 09 06:22:28 anyone online can help me troubleshoot openSSH? Mar 09 07:20:17 preware folks: would be nice if patch updates included a change log or some indication of what changed and why I might want to install a newer version, especially when the existing one seems to be working just fine... Mar 09 07:32:22 ugh ok i'm going to give up on building the widk stuff Mar 09 07:45:37 ok Qt on the Pre is pretty amazing Mar 09 07:45:43 epv: :( Mar 09 07:47:46 lemketron: often the homepage link in the description in Preware will give that Mar 09 07:48:00 lemketron: but yeah, we should put a change log field on the submission portal Mar 09 07:48:05 dBsooner: ^^ Mar 09 07:58:02 dtzwill: well, i was trying to build it on amd64, but it seems like there's make issues too.. i'll try it in i386 anyway Mar 09 07:58:40 epv: fwiw I use amd64...and while I don't have issues, it's possible I did before and purged them from my memory hehe Mar 09 07:58:54 was just today trying to help someone (in person!) build on amd64 and it was being lame, so perhaps you're right Mar 09 07:59:40 hmm... Mar 09 08:01:00 so in conslusion I didn't really add anything to the convo, sorry :) Mar 09 08:01:05 haha Mar 09 08:01:06 "maybe it works maybe it doesn't" Mar 09 08:01:10 haha ;) Mar 09 08:01:13 that's ok, i'll try to figure it out tomorrow when i'm bored at work :) Mar 09 08:01:23 haha, that's the spirit Mar 09 08:01:48 of working hard Mar 09 08:27:32 if I wanted the build for an optware package... someone have a link handy? Mar 09 08:34:06 hi Mar 09 08:44:29 MetaView: Hi, did you saw my mail ? Mar 09 08:44:51 about duke? yes Mar 09 08:45:14 will rework the controls, but before I need to find a way to get it installed from the feed Mar 09 08:50:18 rwhitby: when is the next auto-build in testfeed triggered? Mar 09 09:26:56 But that sound doden't work is not a problem on my pre or schould the sound work? Mar 09 09:56:45 MetaView: test feed builds are manual Mar 09 09:56:55 MetaView: just ping me when you need one Mar 09 09:57:45 dtzWill: true optware builds are on svn.nslu2-linux.org, the preware packaging of such are in build.git/optware Mar 09 09:59:07 rwhitby: tyvm Mar 09 10:22:04 heya rwhitby you around? Mar 09 10:27:32 dtzWill: what timezone are you in? Mar 09 10:27:56 jacques: the one where it's always daytime, apparently Mar 09 10:28:09 * jacques ate a big dinner and fell asleep and now it's 4:30am Mar 09 10:28:22 jacques: central Mar 09 10:28:25 jacques: same time zone Mar 09 10:28:54 dtzWill: heh Mar 09 10:29:26 hmm, technically I already had six hours of sleep Mar 09 10:29:33 oooooooooooo pretty lxde haha Mar 09 10:29:38 time to make some tea Mar 09 10:29:44 jacques: enjoy :) Mar 09 10:29:50 jacques: what kind of tea? Mar 09 10:30:04 lol lol, wie will go to lunch soon. I have 11:30am Mar 09 10:30:25 lxde+iceweasal hahah this is fun Mar 09 10:30:30 the kind with caffeine :-) (green, probably) Mar 09 10:31:33 jacques: haha. fair enough Mar 09 10:32:03 jacques: i don't know much about tea, but the people i know who drink it seem to always be rather into it, so figured i'd ask Mar 09 10:33:15 dtzWill: I have like 10 different kinds. I just make whatever I feel like - tonight, in celebration of your getting X running, I'm making the last of my organic green Mar 09 10:33:40 jacques: I'm honored :D Mar 09 10:34:23 also if you haven't you really gotta try this haha..when you get a chance :) Mar 09 10:34:48 jacques: the alpha issue I think might have cropped up? some things render slightly off, probably due to alpha. my sdlgl 'port' doesn't have that issue so using it for now :) Mar 09 10:36:26 dtzWill: cross-sompile.git builds the version with the problem? Mar 09 10:37:31 jacques: well yes, but it barely shows up. saw it when running some window manager and it had a tray notification that looked a bit off. frankly i'm not completely sure as for the cause, etc Mar 09 10:38:01 jacques: iirc i could 'startkde' (forwarded) on the one in cross-compile.git Mar 09 10:38:47 OK I'll build it and keep an eye out - time to setup the build laptop Mar 09 10:51:26 folks anyone know off top of their head when and how exactly cryptofs gets mounted? Mar 09 10:52:17 * irritum is trying to figure out how to make /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/ avilable to regular shell users Mar 09 10:53:16 particularly I'm not exactly exactly thrilled with the concept of logging in as root every time over ssh Mar 09 10:53:48 but neither am I happy with having ash as the only choice of a shell for the regular user as well Mar 09 10:53:56 * irritum much prefers bash Mar 09 10:54:24 ash per se is not so bad. ash as configured on webos is annoying Mar 09 10:55:12 bash really does use quite a bit more RAM Mar 09 10:55:44 jacques: yes I understand that for embedded devices ash is a prime choice Mar 09 10:56:22 jacques: any ideas about cryptofs question above? Mar 09 10:57:58 irritum: looking but haven't found it yet Mar 09 10:58:08 heh - I'm grepping around /etc too :) Mar 09 10:58:31 * irritum has a hunch it's a upstart service Mar 09 10:58:54 did you look at /etc/init.d/mountall.sh ? Mar 09 10:59:04 I didn't see anything in /etc/event.d Mar 09 10:59:16 s/a/an/ (proper english - geez... that's what I get for having a linguist for a GF) Mar 09 10:59:53 hmm... yup it sure is in there Mar 09 11:00:56 what exactly invokes /etc/init.d/* scripts isn't it upstart as well? Mar 09 11:01:20 ugh. I gotta clean up some space on my VM before I can build anything big Mar 09 11:01:35 when I made it, 8GiB seemed fine Mar 09 11:01:43 heh :) Mar 09 11:02:46 I have a similar yet completely different problem - my cat decided to play with a flash drive that had the only copy of a patch to clock/alarm app I was working on Mar 09 11:03:57 now it's nowhere to be found - probably under couch, bed, chair [insert any place a cat would hide things here]... Mar 09 11:04:09 ouch Mar 09 11:04:25 yah it sucks - though I think I remember pretty well what I did there Mar 09 11:04:58 I'm building a patch to control alarm actions with proximity sensor and accelerometer Mar 09 11:05:15 so far I got it to snooze when you wave your hand over the phone Mar 09 11:05:37 very Jedi-like (though I'm not really a true Star Wars fan) Mar 09 11:06:00 now I've made git unhappy - git pull Mar 09 11:06:02 You are in the middle of a conflicted merge. Mar 09 11:06:03 you know - you move your hand over the phone while saying "Wake me you do not want" Mar 09 11:06:46 * irritum prefers Mercurial Mar 09 11:07:34 jacques: thanks for the hint - looks like that script is the right place to start Mar 09 11:07:59 irritum: np Mar 09 11:08:28 jacques: quick ash question since you seem to know it well - is there env variable that controls whether it saves history to a file or not? Mar 09 11:08:46 no manpages on pre :) Mar 09 11:09:20 irritum: not sure - I thought it was a build-time config Mar 09 11:09:32 argh! Mar 09 11:09:35 along with the history command (also missing) Mar 09 11:09:51 geez - they stripped it well Mar 09 11:10:05 that's the thing about busybox - you don't build the features you don't want, to save space Mar 09 11:10:11 whatcha think about the concept I described above for the alarm? Mar 09 11:10:24 they could also use a newer version of bb :-\ Mar 09 11:10:49 jacques: I've built busybox before as well as embedded *BSD - I know :) Mar 09 11:11:32 alright i'm gonna few what little sleep is left Mar 09 11:11:36 irritum: the proximity snooze feature sounds cool - I would use it Mar 09 11:11:48 jacques: if you have any issues, im me here or pm me or something so I can take a look :) Mar 09 11:11:53 dtzWill: heh I was wondering where you'd gone Mar 09 11:12:21 jacques: yah proximity snooze and shake to turn off completely Mar 09 11:12:22 dtzWill: I gotta fix my git conflicte merge, clear some space on my VM, _then_ I can build and test :-) Mar 09 11:12:48 jacques: sounds like a plan. no worries and no hurry, just making sure I can address whatever issues exist Mar 09 11:13:00 irritum: what does throwing against wall do? Mar 09 11:13:18 I dunno - makes you cry? :) Mar 09 11:13:51 and go out and get a new phone Mar 09 11:14:00 irritum: have a mode for when one must wakeup - the button moves around the screen Mar 09 11:14:01 * irritum has insurance on his Mar 09 11:14:19 sometimes, snooze should not be too easy Mar 09 11:14:29 indeed - that might come later Mar 09 11:14:43 unfortunately I can't make it commercial app - though I wasn't really planning on it Mar 09 11:14:45 one of my favorite applications was an alarm app that asked me math questions before it let me hit snooze Mar 09 11:14:48 I wish GPS indoors was better - could have to move the phone to a specific room to disable alarm Mar 09 11:14:54 by favorite i mean dammit i hated that app, but also it made me on time :) Mar 09 11:15:20 dtzWill: nice - I saw one like that on android - but for "drunk dial" prevention :) Mar 09 11:15:30 lol Mar 09 11:16:40 yah "Stop Drunk Dial" would be cool on the Pre too Mar 09 11:28:43 hostname: permission denied. (are you root?) <-------- love the error message! Mar 09 11:29:02 reminds me of the early days of GNU Mar 09 11:29:19 yeah, hostname is a higly sensitive command :-| Mar 09 11:29:35 does anyone recall how 'login' behaved on very early releases? Mar 09 11:29:37 oh, you are trying to set the hostname, not just get it Mar 09 11:30:11 yes indeed - I just forgot that I logged in as a regular user Mar 09 11:30:52 so yah - I think this was very early Slackware - prior to kernel 2.x or possibly even prior to 1.x Mar 09 11:31:10 and whatver versions of GNU userland utils came with it Mar 09 11:31:37 basically if you entered wrong login / pass too many times it would say "Go away! You do not exist!" Mar 09 11:32:06 or rather IIRC it was the wrong username that triggered it Mar 09 11:34:32 yeah but that was a security issue Mar 09 11:34:36 ...that and "stray NMI" handling error in very early kernels - that was awesome Mar 09 11:34:46 jacques: the whole damng thing was a security issue back then :) Mar 09 11:34:48 leaked info about valid usernames Mar 09 11:35:12 jacques: I think it only did it on locally attached console Mar 09 11:35:26 which is still not very good Mar 09 11:36:27 jacques: hell first release of FreeBSD 3.0 (or was it 3.5?) had an awesome bug in getty - if you hit Ctrl+A you'd get a root shell :) Mar 09 11:36:55 Jordan put it in when he was testing something and forgot to pull it before cutting release :) Mar 09 11:37:48 but that wasn't intentional though Mar 09 11:38:10 lol Mar 09 11:38:21 * irritum likes witty error messages but not when they become a security implication of course Mar 09 11:38:54 "stray NMI" was awesome "Stray NMI received... Trying to cope... Can't cope... panic()" Mar 09 11:39:12 or smth to that effect - it's been too many years to for me to remember it exactly Mar 09 11:40:26 yeah I remember that Mar 09 11:40:45 jacques: it's good to see an oldschooler here! Mar 09 11:41:21 I remember building linux kernels on a 386sx25 with 4MiB RAM Mar 09 11:41:29 it took over 8 hours Mar 09 11:41:32 I got you beat :) Mar 09 11:41:35 on that one Mar 09 11:41:41 then got 8 MiB and it was like 45 minutes Mar 09 11:42:02 how about building a BSD kernel on a Soviet PDP-11 clone? (I was still back in USSR then) Mar 09 11:42:42 ok you win :-) Mar 09 11:42:55 tho I have used a PDP-11 Mar 09 11:43:09 but that was in 87 IIRC Mar 09 11:44:17 they called that BSD based OS "DEMOS" - most of it was pieced together from various pieces that exchange students managed to get out of various .edu around the globe on tape Mar 09 11:44:28 jacques: heh - I was 8 years old in 87 :) Mar 09 11:44:32 or about :) Mar 09 11:44:59 I was plaing with BASIC on a TRS-80 clone my dad had built Mar 09 11:45:24 and learning about voltage dividers / diodes / and transistors :) Mar 09 11:46:32 they couldn't use foreign CPUs - so the poor Z-80 chip was actually emulated by 4 soviet microcontrollers sitting on a card Mar 09 11:46:38 hmm, now I have made scratchbox2 unhappy - tonight is not my night Mar 09 11:47:16 jacques: screw it - lets just remonisce tonight :) Mar 09 11:47:31 heh :-) Mar 09 11:47:48 * irritum 's night isn't going well either :) Mar 09 11:47:52 * jacques had a commodore vic-20 Mar 09 11:48:13 jacques: we didn't have many of those - actually most of Europe didn't Mar 09 11:48:13 5KiB RAM woo-hoo Mar 09 11:48:39 Sinclair Spectrum ZX - was our toy of the days Mar 09 11:49:01 yeah lots of ppl had / love those Mar 09 11:49:02 I think they tried to market it in US / CA also as Timex Sinclair 1000 Mar 09 11:49:22 heh I have a ZX emulator running right now :) Mar 09 11:49:31 we did have alot of the same games though Mar 09 11:49:39 I wanted one so bad, but had no money Mar 09 11:49:49 * jacques wanted the "kit" Mar 09 11:50:03 * irritum isn't sure what "kit" is Mar 09 11:50:36 heh - that's the beauty of it - my father built me one :) well actually he built it for himself when he fell in love with Batman game Mar 09 11:51:27 irritum: they sold the timex sinclair assembled or in kit form Mar 09 11:52:06 I say "kit" because I think it was pretty much assembled Mar 09 11:52:22 I liked how small it was Mar 09 11:52:40 the later trash 80 clone we had actually had a real Zilog CPU - and my dad told me to take a jigsaw and cut it out of the PCB as you couldn't possibly desolder all those pins without killing it (well we didn't have sophisticated desolder guns, later though we hacked one together with a vacuum cleaner a cork from a champagne bottle and a length of a teflon tubing) Mar 09 11:52:58 jacques: oh - cool - I didn't know that :) Mar 09 11:53:05 in that case - mine was sort of a "kit" :) Mar 09 11:53:45 a printed circuit board for it was made by some dude who worked in a military factory and traded for a liter of pure ethyl :) Mar 09 11:54:04 the rest we had to scout around for Mar 09 11:54:32 wow Mar 09 11:55:35 it was somewhat bigger than the actual sinclair of course - as it was reverse engineered and adopted to use soviet-made components (well short of the CPU of course) Mar 09 11:56:23 jacques: we had clones of S/360 and S/370 too - but I didn't see much of those - maybe a few times in the building where my dad's lab was Mar 09 11:56:57 oh - man - I think you will totally appreciate this - I keep talking about clones - but how about something original that soviets designed Mar 09 11:57:01 lemme dig up an URL Mar 09 11:57:10 in english of course Mar 09 11:57:16 :-) Mar 09 11:58:24 http://www.mailcom.com/besm6/ Mar 09 11:58:47 my grandmother got to code in COBOL on this thing late in her career Mar 09 12:00:01 I personally love this: Mar 09 12:00:02 Printers The printers connected to BESM-6 were similar to those old IBM line printers with a big rotating character drum and a lot of little hammers, and the interface was similar to the one used for IBM 1132: an interrupt was generated when a row of characters on the drum was ready to be struck with the hammers, and the OS had to send a bitmap of the hammers to hit the drum to the printer no later than 200 us after the i Mar 09 12:03:13 interesting page Mar 09 12:03:24 I like the old pictures Mar 09 12:03:27 yah it was actually a pretty bad ass design Mar 09 12:03:38 I saw the last working one in Ukraine in '03 Mar 09 12:04:04 in Odessa Institute for Thermo-Physics Mar 09 12:04:26 * irritum was there to manage a team of coders and set up office, etc. for outsourcing Mar 09 12:05:28 webosdoctorp100ewwsprint-1.3.5/jar/resources/webOS.tar: write error (disk full?). Continue? (y/n/^C) Mar 09 12:05:50 uh oh... that doesn't sound good Mar 09 12:06:06 sigh. out of space in VM Mar 09 12:06:14 oh - VM - phew... Mar 09 12:07:18 I wonder if KVM can use a partition as its drive Mar 09 12:07:26 I have some spare partitions Mar 09 12:07:52 hmm... you could always mkfs and create a file on it too... i guess... Mar 09 12:08:07 yeah Mar 09 12:08:37 argh!!!!!! Mar 09 12:08:47 I think I just fucked up my PIC programmer Mar 09 12:08:57 shit... this is not a good night at all... Mar 09 12:09:44 :-( Mar 09 12:09:46 i just dropped a god-damn paperclip on it (it has no case - never did - came that way) Mar 09 12:10:20 wait didn't all this crap start happening *after* I joined the channel? :) Mar 09 12:10:25 oh no. that's a big danger for me too Mar 09 12:10:32 :-\ Mar 09 12:10:44 perhaps I should go - and take my bad luck with me Mar 09 12:10:53 the PIC thing really pisses me off Mar 09 12:11:17 I was hoping to test my digital tachometer for my beater (read sleeper racer) Dodge Neon '96 Mar 09 12:11:29 tomorrow that is Mar 09 12:12:46 not sure if you're into cars as well as computers - but I got this car for $500 a couple of years ago and been modding it since - not for street racing though - and not with stupid lights, paint, etc. Mar 09 12:14:10 * jacques was just looking at http://www.msefi.com/index.php Mar 09 12:14:27 do it yourself engine management Mar 09 12:14:34 so far as electronic mods go it has a indash carPC for GPS, media and OBD-II monitoring Mar 09 12:14:53 ooooooh tasty link! Mar 09 12:14:57 * irritum bookmarks Mar 09 12:15:35 as far as engine mods go - I swapped the heads on it - it came SOHC and now its DOHC Mar 09 12:15:49 nice Mar 09 12:16:02 it was actually pretty easy Mar 09 12:16:03 I want to mod my miata Mar 09 12:16:45 oooh - man miatas are actually bad ass - I didn't know that - always thought they were puny until I seen one on the track smoke an S2000 a few years ago Mar 09 12:17:30 road track? Mar 09 12:17:35 yah Mar 09 12:18:18 that's almost all driver. tho the miata could have been modified Mar 09 12:18:58 my brother has a S2000 - it's a lot faster than my stockmiata, but I bet I could beat him on a road course Mar 09 12:19:41 but a miata with 250+ WHP is another thing entirely Mar 09 12:30:55 irritum: what's up? Mar 09 12:31:20 rwhitby: just was gonna ask a couple of questions - jacques helped out though :) Mar 09 12:31:43 tonight is a bad night for coding, hacking, soldering, and apparently programming PICs Mar 09 12:32:27 gentelmen I have to leave you now - it's 4:30 am PST and I should really try and get some sleep Mar 09 12:32:43 jacques: nice meeting you - and thanks for good conversation Mar 09 12:32:53 rwhitby: I'll catch you later Mar 09 12:32:56 ok Mar 09 12:34:08 later irritum Mar 09 12:34:15 before I go - rwhitby what do you think about getting Ustream.TV channel setup for webosinternals? Mar 09 12:34:24 extra publicity - tutorials, you know, etc. Mar 09 12:34:55 we've got a youtube channel set up for that at the moment, and JenP is working on some tutorials Mar 09 12:35:03 oh nice! Mar 09 12:35:21 * irritum will be starting werk at Ustream.TV next week Mar 09 12:36:24 rwhitby: any plans for conference / meetup / etc.? Mar 09 12:37:01 I think Palm will have a booth at game dev. convention in San Francisco (where I live) later this month Mar 09 12:37:30 irritum: doesn't that start tomorrow? Mar 09 12:37:36 oh shit! Mar 09 12:37:43 you're right!!! Mar 09 12:38:00 any of you guys gonna be there? Mar 09 12:38:08 irritum: well, if you're working there I'll need to look into a ustream.tv channel then Mar 09 12:38:09 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1903 Mar 09 12:38:13 I wish I could be there Mar 09 12:38:21 rwhitby: it's free anyway Mar 09 12:38:33 jacques: did you help out with one of our SDL games? Ask Lisa for a pass ... Mar 09 12:38:45 the only diff from u-tube is better quality videos (if you want) and possibility of live b-casts Mar 09 12:39:12 rwhitby: well it starts tomorow and is in san francisco :-D Mar 09 12:39:26 jacques: where abouts are you? Mar 09 12:39:46 I mightmake it to the embedded linux conf in april tho - also in san francisco Mar 09 12:39:56 irritum: near houston, texas Mar 09 12:40:05 jacques: ah - kewl Mar 09 12:40:43 jacques: did you used to hang out in #freebsd on EFNet by chance in mid-late 90's? Mar 09 12:40:43 http://www.embeddedlinuxconference.com/elc_2010/index.html Mar 09 12:41:07 irritum: no :-) Mar 09 12:41:28 k - i just thought your nick was familiar Mar 09 12:41:40 k - i try and sleep now Mar 09 12:42:07 rwhitby: Presenter Name: Matthew Tippett Mar 09 12:42:08 Company: Palm Mar 09 12:42:10 Title: Engaging Developer Communities: Lessons and Opportunity from webOS Mar 09 12:42:12 i have a fun day tomorrow of poking at the PIC programmer with oscilloscope and multimeter Mar 09 12:42:16 oops Mar 09 12:42:37 ttyl all Mar 09 12:42:46 * irritum really should register his nick Mar 09 12:42:48 rwhitby: that's at the embedded linux conf Mar 09 12:42:50 later irritum Mar 09 12:42:57 yeah :-) Mar 09 12:45:21 you know what guys Mar 09 12:45:26 I've changed my mind Mar 09 12:45:40 I'll just take my adderall now - screw sleeping Mar 09 12:46:09 * irritum is not a junkie - he has a prescription Mar 09 12:46:35 * jacques drinks more green tea. Mar 09 12:46:47 benefits of being ADHD I guess... Mar 09 12:46:59 jacques: ever try Yerba Mate? Mar 09 12:47:18 irritum: no, is it tea? Mar 09 12:47:32 well it's an herb you brew Mar 09 12:48:17 very popular in all south american countries Mar 09 12:48:34 espceially in mountains where people natuarlly have low hemoglobin levels Mar 09 12:49:00 totally legal - you can get it in any argentenian/chilean market - if you have one locally or order it online Mar 09 12:49:05 sounds like something I would try Mar 09 12:49:52 it's awesome! Mar 09 12:51:18 basically if you look at the back of a can of redbull and compare ingridients like niacin, vitamins A - Z, etc. Mar 09 12:51:23 it has all that stuff natuarlly Mar 09 12:51:46 it also has about %30 percent caffeine that of coffee Mar 09 12:52:18 I'm not sure how much O-chem you know but it's polarized differently Mar 09 12:52:30 so your body absorbs practically all of it Mar 09 12:53:03 people that drink coffee normally, when I have them try it, go like "Whoa!!! What was that?!! I'm totally wired!!!" Mar 09 12:54:42 nice. I only like really strong coffee Mar 09 12:54:58 after you try it you may never go back :) Mar 09 12:55:05 * jacques loves caffeine Mar 09 12:55:12 besides it's really cool ritual - you can do it totally argentenian style Mar 09 12:55:16 that would be the danger :-) Mar 09 12:55:26 with a gourd and a bombillia Mar 09 12:55:45 hang on - lemme find you a "starter kit" on e-bay :) Mar 09 12:59:26 jacques: http://cgi.ebay.com/YERBA-MATE-GOURD-BOMBILLA-Kit-for-Yerba-Mate_W0QQitemZ200446114327QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2eab84fa17 Mar 09 12:59:44 probably not the best priced but I like the gourd - it's real nice Mar 09 13:19:38 Hello Mar 09 13:20:31 hi Mar 09 13:20:58 Has anyone here used SB2 for cross compiling something that requires pkg-config? I can't get past the configure because pkg-config insists that it can't find glib-2.0.pc, even though PKG_CONFIG_PATH points directly to it. Mar 09 13:23:28 Emon: we build packages requiring pkg-cnfig all the time Mar 09 13:23:57 I had hoped so :) Mar 09 13:23:57 but remember sb2 does path mapping, so you gotta be careful with paths Mar 09 13:24:14 Yes, I'm a little fuzzy on that. Mar 09 13:24:21 Emon: just checkout cross-compile.git and you will see working examples Mar 09 13:24:30 ok Mar 09 13:26:18 Emon: if you aren't using cross-compile.git, the PKG_CONFIG_PATH will be dependent on your particular setup Mar 09 13:26:31 so I cannot be too specific Mar 09 13:28:17 I checked out cross-compilation and I'm looking at install-osx.sh and osx-build-install.sh Mar 09 13:28:31 I mean, those are the two files that were checked out Mar 09 13:29:52 Emon: you are on a mac? Mar 09 13:30:55 what's the latest news? Mar 09 13:31:23 I'm not sure much has happened in the last few hours Cerealklr Mar 09 13:32:11 boring. xD Any new developments on the QT or x11 libs? Mar 09 14:00:49 hmm. has the process on compiling QT apps for WebOS been documented yet? Mar 09 14:02:24 not that I'm aware of - probably soon tho Mar 09 14:03:47 yah, I presume. one of the things I just noticed is that the file browser is fully functional on it (as seen via the 'print' dialogue in the spreadsheet demo). I'm quite excited about how many fully developed things have just been dumped in our laps. xD Mar 09 14:05:03 yeah I predict a lot of interest in the QT port Mar 09 14:08:28 I was just showing it off and it's generating tons of interest simply because of the novelty of an interface so reminiscent of the desktop. in all actuality,things like windowing aren't particularly useful on the phone, but it impresses the hell out of people. The appearance of the controls and program layout is familiar too. Mar 09 14:08:44 I think if palm hasn't already gotten wind of this,they need to fast. Mar 09 14:09:25 a lot of the work being done for maemo should apply Mar 09 14:09:44 the lib should really go into the next update and start allowing QT apps in the catalog. they need to up their advertising to: "There's a library for that." xD Mar 09 14:09:56 precisely. Mar 09 14:10:58 I need to start monitoring maemo and meego again, it looks like. xD Mar 09 14:12:32 off to class Mar 09 15:05:24 hey all Mar 09 15:21:33 meep Mar 09 15:37:10 * ghost_of_zsoc is downloading the pdk Mar 09 15:37:21 oh. the pdk is up now btw Mar 09 16:01:17 ohhh pdk Mar 09 16:01:24 pdk what Mar 09 16:01:30 is on palms site Mar 09 16:01:49 i don't believe you Mar 09 16:02:00 zsoc said it first Mar 09 16:02:06 i definitely don't believe him Mar 09 16:02:07 so i had to look for myself Mar 09 16:02:09 and sure enough Mar 09 16:02:10 there it was Mar 09 16:02:15 yep Mar 09 16:02:20 I'm downloading it :p Mar 09 16:02:29 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1970&Itemid=331 Mar 09 16:02:29 well awesome then Mar 09 16:02:43 its definately not services Mar 09 16:02:44 lol Mar 09 16:02:48 just sdl apps and plugins Mar 09 16:03:10 were we expecting more? Mar 09 16:03:32 why in the world does teh PDK support Ogg Vorbis Mar 09 16:03:35 and not webos Mar 09 16:03:37 no Mar 09 16:03:55 its pretty much exactly what we were expecting Mar 09 16:04:40 oil: "Easy integration of C/C++ components to enhance the capabilities of webOS applications" can't this be considered services, sort of? Mar 09 16:04:50 what the fly Mar 09 16:04:52 yeah, but its a plugin Mar 09 16:04:53 only windows and mac Mar 09 16:04:54 supported Mar 09 16:05:19 "hey you want to write native C apps for your linux phone... get windows or mac!" Mar 09 16:05:37 egaudet_work: for now. It's a beta. Man, why are all the Linux fanboys overreacting? sheesh. :) Mar 09 16:05:45 lol Mar 09 16:06:25 just install a windows virtual machine Mar 09 16:06:30 pffft Mar 09 16:06:35 "Development on Linux machines is not currently supported, but will be in a future release" You've gotta think that will be relatively soon. Mar 09 16:06:41 I refuse, until Rod comes and tells me how the OS is just a tool Mar 09 16:07:04 I was just joking anyway, it's not like they will be doing anything groundbreaking we can't do with WIDK Mar 09 16:07:11 lol Mar 09 16:07:28 I just want some officially documented PDL API Mar 09 16:07:33 its there Mar 09 16:08:05 oil: I guess what I was saying is, if you need, say, the ability to connect to a socket. Couldn't you do some PDK component and use that in your webOS mojo app? Mar 09 16:08:13 egaudet_work: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1990&Itemid=340 maybe? Mar 09 16:08:24 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1990&Itemid=370 Mar 09 16:08:24 yeah, right Mar 09 16:10:34 That's just cool. http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2026&Itemid=340 js/plugin interface. I kinda thought it would be all pdk or all mojo. Neat. Mar 09 16:10:55 as far as i can see Mar 09 16:11:02 your app would need a head to be able to use it Mar 09 16:11:15 since it needs that html Mar 09 16:11:26 where a service could be accessed headless Mar 09 16:11:42 so like in wirc Mar 09 16:11:49 where would we put such an object tag Mar 09 16:12:00 since every scene could be tossed away at any time Mar 09 16:12:02 even the main one Mar 09 16:12:18 I see the distinction you're making now. But we know that Palm doesn't like 3rd party headless apps running for performance concerns Mar 09 16:12:40 Maybe it's possible to handoff object references between cards? Mar 09 16:12:41 I'm sure they plan to support services Mar 09 16:13:00 judging by existence of /var/palm/system-services Mar 09 16:13:12 egaudet_work: yeah, but only for 10 seconds at a time Mar 09 16:13:17 huh? Mar 09 16:13:37 sarcasm, just re: the 10 second timeout on js functions Mar 09 16:13:58 oh yeah, well the js one is understandable since it's all meant to be async :P Mar 09 16:14:13 aren't services the epitome of async though? Mar 09 16:14:47 well the service itself doesn't need to be but the js still is Mar 09 16:15:16 I'm simplifying, not thinking about all possibilities. Don't mind me. :) Mar 09 16:17:30 Heya Mar 09 16:20:25 Complete lack of a guide on the wiki about freetether? xD Mar 09 16:20:51 egaudet: oil: so I have a 4 hour meeting now and I can't look at this... is it just a tool chain and sdl headers? Mar 09 16:21:01 Cerealklr: install free-tether.... that's it Mar 09 16:21:14 Cerealklr: there's a wiki guide to using usbnet Mar 09 16:21:58 I thought that too. Unless there is some setup i need to run for it though, it isn't working. My computer won't detect it as a networking device. I've used MyTether in the past repeatedly but this isn't working. xD Mar 09 16:22:06 i'll check into that guide Mar 09 16:22:08 maybe it'll help Mar 09 16:22:37 Oh, Freetether doesn't handle all the setup? Mar 09 16:22:37 xD Mar 09 16:22:45 mkay Mar 09 16:23:06 hey everyone... wondering who i would want to speak to regarding wIRC leaving processes running after closing? when you run wIRC, then close, open jstop and there is still a PID entry with open service handles (as in... 12 hours later) Mar 09 16:23:26 probably the wIRC channel Mar 09 16:23:46 lol, case in point why Palm wouldn't want to allow headless services. Mar 09 16:23:52 lol Mar 09 16:24:00 well, thats a start, should I assume its just #wirc? Mar 09 16:24:03 well it should die when all scenes are gone Mar 09 16:24:17 just sometimes it doesnt Mar 09 16:24:20 there is currently no fix Mar 09 16:24:23 rwaldron: no, if you're talking about wirc on webos, it would be here. Mar 09 16:24:29 not to mention its v0.0.4 Mar 09 16:24:36 give it a break xD Mar 09 16:24:44 yep, i am talking about wirc on webos Mar 09 16:24:46 you didn't release it feature complete? Why put bugs in it? Mar 09 16:24:55 well they allow you to run the app on desktop Mar 09 16:24:58 @+oil - i'm not sweating it Mar 09 16:24:58 * oil really needs to get dressed and head to work Mar 09 16:24:59 and emulate keyboard, mouse, accel etc.. Mar 09 16:25:11 so if they are using a hid plugin for that... Mar 09 16:25:13 i just wanted to make sure those who need to know were aware Mar 09 16:25:21 i dont think they'd like me to show up in a towel Mar 09 16:25:34 rwaldron, we've been aware of that since development Mar 09 16:25:38 ok Mar 09 16:25:39 rad Mar 09 16:26:17 anyway, its an excellent app otherwise - and as a developer I also understand the hard work that goes into this stuff, so hat's off Mar 09 16:27:42 I don't understand what a "headless service" is? Mar 09 16:29:09 A service sans a visible scene? Mar 09 16:29:48 services are already separate from mojo, they don't have scenes Mar 09 16:29:59 they are -callable- by mojo apps Mar 09 16:30:19 hrmmmm... Mar 09 16:31:14 egaudet, you can access them via a headless mojo app Mar 09 16:31:29 with a plugin, your mojo app needs a head to include the right Mar 09 16:33:46 * oil heads to work Mar 09 16:33:53 a headless app going crazy abusing a service isn't a reason not to use a service :P Mar 09 16:34:19 oh, the PDK is released? Mar 09 16:35:41 MetaView: Yes it sis =>http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1971&Itemid=336 Mar 09 16:37:40 * MetaView is going to download Mar 09 16:37:52 The app is not terminated—If the device becomes low on memory and the application is using more than its stated quota for 10 seconds the application is terminated. For this reason, it is important not to make this limit too small. Mar 09 16:38:03 * AnOutsider wonders how many developers will actually start making apps using the PDK Mar 09 16:39:05 AnOutsider: the app catalog will explode with all sorts of awesome ports once they allow it Mar 09 16:39:09 its a very small amount of apps in catalog so I hope a lot of ppl will port their apps from iphone to pre Mar 09 16:40:49 I'd guess the same, though it looks like palm still wants people to use Mojo for most apps developed from here on out Mar 09 16:41:16 "To run the sample application in Visual Studio: " nice, nice Mar 09 16:41:21 @en0x I'd also attribute that to a small marketshare for palm, which goes back to a number of things, but webos isn't too bad to develop for Mar 09 16:41:35 Mojo is cool too, once you get fimilar with it Mar 09 16:41:43 in fact, if it had a larger install base I'd imagine there would be more developers for it since everything is web now Mar 09 16:41:46 familare... or whatever Mar 09 16:41:51 heh Mar 09 16:41:57 it's good for what it needs to do Mar 09 16:42:18 I had an easier time developing for WebOS than iPhone or Android for sure Mar 09 16:42:36 i definitely agree with that Mar 09 16:42:55 i equate my palm pre to just another one of my linux boxes at this point Mar 09 16:43:46 SDK is simple, hacking up the OS is simple, and i dont have many gripes about luna or the GUI as a whole Mar 09 16:44:25 i just wish they'd make everything run as non-root finally and my only major complaint is gone Mar 09 16:44:26 *agreed* Mar 09 16:46:22 why run as non-root? Mar 09 16:46:46 well they'll have to do something like that once they allow widespread native apps Mar 09 16:50:33 I like how my lock screen has been crashing lately Mar 09 16:51:18 from a security stand point Mar 09 16:51:26 running EVERYTHING as root is never a good idea Mar 09 16:51:38 Kyusaku: Do you have that problem too? The button goes away, but you still see the rest of the lock screen. Mar 09 16:51:50 my hardened kernel for the pre is all but useless without some privilege seperation Mar 09 16:52:31 hape: it's the opposite for me, I have the orb, but the lock screen won't display, or just bypasses it when coming out of suspend Mar 09 16:52:50 loot-: prior to native apps running as root really cannot do any harm Mar 09 16:52:51 hmmm Mar 09 16:53:06 not true Mar 09 16:53:15 also pre slightly unresponsive to coming out of suspend Mar 09 16:53:16 malformed webpages can exploit the browser Mar 09 16:53:24 malformed SMS/email can cause issues Mar 09 16:53:32 etc etc etc Mar 09 16:53:44 there a million reasons not to run things as root Mar 09 16:53:49 some things i realize will require it Mar 09 16:54:05 but everything is a very dangerous decision IMHO Mar 09 16:54:17 i don't think it's -that- dangerous Mar 09 16:54:21 how so? Mar 09 16:54:47 servers do not run things as root Mar 09 16:54:55 hell even desktop linux distros do not run things as root Mar 09 16:55:45 when you run things as root one single bug suddenly becomes a total compromise Mar 09 16:56:06 instead of just getting local access and then still needing privilege escalation locally to get full control of the machine Mar 09 16:56:10 well this isn't a server or a desktop and it has been all web apps "officially". But your point with bug exploitation is valid. Mar 09 16:56:24 IMO this is a desktop Mar 09 16:56:29 it serves most of the same functions Mar 09 16:56:34 it's not though Mar 09 16:56:49 I'm talking about "officially" not all the awesome stuff we have been able to do with it Mar 09 16:57:00 officially it still is Mar 09 16:57:03 it has a web browser Mar 09 16:57:09 it has email, chat etc clients Mar 09 16:57:11 it is a browser that's it Mar 09 16:57:16 all things that can be abused from a security standpoint Mar 09 16:57:30 same types of applications that are abused for desktop users Mar 09 16:58:08 and moving forward if/when they add non-root users, they will need root escalation Mar 09 16:58:24 just because its linux does not immediately make it 100% safe... and basic security stuff like least privilege execution should NEVER be ignored regardless of where its being implemented Mar 09 16:58:33 I understand that Mar 09 16:58:39 I never said it was "safe" because it's linux Mar 09 16:58:48 they dont even need escalation really Mar 09 16:58:56 but the mojo sandbox was secure enough to make root not a problem Mar 09 16:58:59 they just need some major back end components to run as root Mar 09 16:59:10 and the user to login as a non-root user and run their applications as such Mar 09 16:59:55 at any rate Mar 09 17:00:04 ill be a happy camper once they implement non-root users Mar 09 17:00:28 and at that point ill probably fill in the wiki about how to create a hardened grsecurity kernel for the pre and how to use it with paxctl and gradm Mar 09 17:01:50 the PDK is beta now and an "upcoming" webOS release will allow for widespread native apps. So we could probably be seeing non-root users in the near future Mar 09 17:01:53 so ... PDk is out but only windows and osx ??? why palm why? Mar 09 17:02:02 jacques: because you already have linux in your palm Mar 09 17:02:11 why do you need to use it to develop duh Mar 09 17:02:13 egaudet_work: but I don't have windows Mar 09 17:02:20 lol Mar 09 17:02:23 i dont run windows either Mar 09 17:02:24 but .. but ... Mar 09 17:02:26 'cause windows rocks? :D Mar 09 17:02:31 I want to participate too :-( Mar 09 17:02:34 i'd have to kick my own ass if i paid for an apple Mar 09 17:03:01 * jacques is sad. Mar 09 17:03:02 I've paid for apple and use it as TV after booting Windows... Mar 09 17:03:04 of course developers using linux as primary OS don't need no stinkin PDK! Mar 09 17:03:20 MetaView: i do that in linux and paid probably 1/3 what you did Mar 09 17:03:21 lol Mar 09 17:03:46 I didn't even know hulu had made a linux desktop Mar 09 17:03:51 I bought the MacMini for iPhone dev, but didn't find it interesting enough Mar 09 17:03:54 I think I was living under a rock or something Mar 09 17:04:09 why is the windows one 20MB and the mac one 70MB ? Mar 09 17:04:23 because of XCode I guess Mar 09 17:04:38 get a nice old PC throw a tv card in it get some mythtv or the like, nice media center Mar 09 17:05:09 egaudet_work: agreed Mar 09 17:05:10 but Mar 09 17:05:14 instead of an old pc Mar 09 17:05:19 get an nvidia ion board Mar 09 17:05:23 with an atom CPU Mar 09 17:05:37 well, why should I buy another machine? Mar 09 17:05:38 cheap, awesome, and perfect for an HTPC Mar 09 17:05:43 I would still like to see the templates and sample apps and libs :-( Mar 09 17:06:03 the MacMini is there and used for DVDs and TV (but this only works with WinXP) Mar 09 17:06:16 maybe if I look really hard I'll find a tarball Mar 09 17:06:21 im sure your tv tuner would work in linux just fine Mar 09 17:06:32 i have a hauppage wintv pvr-500 Mar 09 17:06:36 jacques: can't you unzip the windows exe? Mar 09 17:06:38 hmm nvidia ion, google time Mar 09 17:06:38 and that works in linux perfectly Mar 09 17:06:45 egaudet_work: they are awesome Mar 09 17:06:49 zotac makes them currently Mar 09 17:06:55 loot: maybe, but why installing another OS? Mar 09 17:07:08 jacques: so reading PDK stuff, they say you can launch your app emulated on desktop Mar 09 17:07:17 MetaView: because xp is going to be slower for tv/pvr/dvd/etc functionality than linux Mar 09 17:07:18 and emulate keyboard, multi-touch and accelerometer... Mar 09 17:07:22 yes, which makes it perfect Mar 09 17:07:22 especially on old hardware Mar 09 17:07:24 or slower hardware Mar 09 17:07:36 assuming they are using standard webOS system to do that... maybe they did it with hidd Mar 09 17:07:37 loot: it's as fast as I can watch :p Mar 09 17:07:58 "Support for Visual Studio and Xcode." what are those things? Mar 09 17:08:04 IDEs Mar 09 17:08:11 VS: win Xcode: Mac Mar 09 17:08:11 heh Mar 09 17:08:18 loot-: what's the price for one Mar 09 17:08:23 MetaView: unzip: cannot find zipfile directory in one of PalmPDK.exe or Mar 09 17:08:32 a pity Mar 09 17:08:36 egaudet_work: for one with a built in power supply? like ~$170 ive found them for Mar 09 17:08:50 its CPU/board/GPU/PSU all in one Mar 09 17:08:56 all you need is memory and a disk Mar 09 17:09:02 jacques: what about wine then? Mar 09 17:09:02 currently I have a crappy setup in my living room (xbox 360) that I stream stuff from my linux box which has no good solutions since some companies can't stick to standards Mar 09 17:09:10 ah Mar 09 17:09:12 an IDE is like emacs and gcc then? Mar 09 17:09:15 well the nvidia ion boards Mar 09 17:09:21 most have dual core intel atom 330's on them Mar 09 17:09:25 and accept 4gigs of ram Mar 09 17:09:31 speedy little things Mar 09 17:09:31 MetaView: good idea - I do have wine Mar 09 17:09:37 VS is free you can use express. Mar 09 17:09:47 the atom is pretty slow Mar 09 17:09:49 but it's kinda early to be drinking Mar 09 17:09:49 even the 330 Mar 09 17:09:49 ive managed to play half life 2 on an ion box without issue Mar 09 17:09:52 and I'm at work Mar 09 17:10:00 (Express is the free version btw) Mar 09 17:10:00 bougyman: how do you figure? Mar 09 17:10:04 the amd version (nano, i think) is much snappier. Mar 09 17:10:08 i replaced all of my aging x86 crap with atoms Mar 09 17:10:08 loot-: we build phone systems with both. Mar 09 17:10:11 jacques: I'm pretty sure an IDE is for mice lovers Mar 09 17:10:11 and they're perfect Mar 09 17:10:19 the atom is *really* slow Mar 09 17:10:25 haha you guys are crazy Mar 09 17:10:26 * jacques emerged gentoo on one Mar 09 17:10:28 the NV40 outperforms the atoms at concurrent calls and sessions per second. Mar 09 17:10:28 i run gentoo on atoms Mar 09 17:10:28 an IDE is like Emacs but someone else made the scripting, yes :D Mar 09 17:10:29 and they're fine Mar 09 17:10:34 jacques: all my atoms run gentoo Mar 09 17:10:34 * MetaView likes VS Mar 09 17:10:40 yes, "fine", but not fast. Mar 09 17:10:50 well look Mar 09 17:10:52 but only VS 6, everything later is crap and slow Mar 09 17:10:56 i can compile a whole system in 2 hours on an atom 330 Mar 09 17:10:57 or Mar 09 17:10:59 i can pay 10x more Mar 09 17:11:00 1.6MHz atom makes my 1.7MHz pentium-M look like a i7 Mar 09 17:11:01 for a quad coer Mar 09 17:11:03 compare it to the nv chip when you get a chance. Mar 09 17:11:03 and do it 1 hour Mar 09 17:11:22 believe me I wanted it to be faster Mar 09 17:11:38 well Mar 09 17:11:40 tho I think part of the problem is the crappy intel chipset - slow memory access Mar 09 17:11:42 i use SSD's on atoms too Mar 09 17:11:50 and max the memory out Mar 09 17:11:51 so the new ones with builtin memory controller may be better for that use case Mar 09 17:12:03 the ions scream Mar 09 17:12:12 and accept 4 gigs of memory instead of 2 Mar 09 17:12:22 http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_9484_15916,00.html Mar 09 17:12:27 we're getting those now. Mar 09 17:12:39 fedora wine keeps complaining about 32 vs 64 bit Mar 09 17:12:46 they handle nearly twice the amount of SIP traffic as the atom 330 Mar 09 17:15:44 bougyman: I believe that Mar 09 17:15:59 but I bet they take more power Mar 09 17:16:40 Test Mar 09 17:16:59 haha Mar 09 17:17:00 iphone alert iphone alert, code red Mar 09 17:17:00 the amd neo Mar 09 17:17:05 uses A TON more power Mar 09 17:17:08 compared to the atom Mar 09 17:17:17 and its the same clcok speed and dual core Mar 09 17:17:18 oh Mar 09 17:17:18 but Mar 09 17:17:21 its not dual thread Mar 09 17:17:35 so i dont see how it "handles more sip load" Mar 09 17:17:36 is it a know issuse that terminal doesn't work in 1.4 Mar 09 17:18:04 it crashes luna for me Mar 09 17:18:24 I'm in an iPhone training. I thought this would be amusing Mar 09 17:18:55 it is Mar 09 17:19:01 epyon22: yes, that's known, being worked on, but not an easy fix Mar 09 17:19:15 MetaView: wine worked - I extracted the PDK Mar 09 17:19:29 but I feel like I need a lawyer to read the 25 page EULA Mar 09 17:19:37 not an easy bug to track down Mar 09 17:19:41 ok :( thx again jacques I miss my terminal lol Mar 09 17:19:44 the fix could be very easy :P Mar 09 17:20:00 is it a service problem or the app? Mar 09 17:20:06 plugin Mar 09 17:20:24 epyon22: I never know how popular terminal was until it broke - now I think it may be the most popular open source app after preware Mar 09 17:20:28 haven't figured out why but it's segfaulting and crashing luna Mar 09 17:20:30 jacques: I'm still downloading the arm compiler Mar 09 17:20:48 terminal is cool Mar 09 17:20:50 MetaView: I told it not to bother - I'm only interested in the palm files Mar 09 17:21:03 ok Mar 09 17:21:06 time to break out dos2unix Mar 09 17:21:43 jacques yeah cause it adds so much functionality like ssh and file navigation ect Mar 09 17:22:09 epyon22: I am always ssh'ing into mine, so it never occurred to me Mar 09 17:22:45 jacques I personally use it for hamachi alot cause if I leave hamachi up it kills the battery in 12 hours Mar 09 17:23:03 epyon22: what's hamachi ? Mar 09 17:23:12 yellowtail ? mmmmmm Mar 09 17:23:49 jacques it's a very ez vpn I have it on all my comps Mar 09 17:24:15 epyon22: now that's interesting - I will have to check it out Mar 09 17:25:02 Although I must admit, webchat works well on this thing Mar 09 17:27:17 yeah the wiki should have all the info I edited it so every thing works correctly for the pre jacques though there is a timeout issue with the nix versions a simple keepalive line needs to be added somwhere Mar 09 17:27:21 infobot: lart iPhone-user Mar 09 17:27:21 * infobot takes a big bite out of iPhone-user's jugular vein Mar 09 17:28:11 iphone-user iphone has a irc app? or your on a webpage? Mar 09 17:28:19 silly infobot; don't go for the veins - go for the arteries! Mar 09 17:28:48 epyon22: iPhone-user might mean webchat.freenode.net - same as I'm using (from work) Mar 09 17:29:19 wait. ppl need *training* to use iphones ?? Mar 09 17:29:45 haha yeah they have to learn all the guestures and stuff Mar 09 17:29:52 yes you must learn to be a hipster Mar 09 17:30:28 jacques ah ok well I'm on the wirc and it's awesome Mar 09 17:31:00 epyon22: yeah wirc is great. but I have no data service at work :-( Mar 09 17:31:42 jaques wow idk what I would do with no data service lol Mar 09 17:35:10 sorry - the periodic http proxy restart :-( Mar 09 17:37:53 it's np well I'm off all battery about to die on the pre thx for the help gl finding the bug for the terminal app Mar 09 17:44:59 Hello: I have 9.29 and whether or not I choose to view "FREE" palm catalog apps, I always get AA apps. Mar 09 17:45:17 9.28 worked fine, but this switch does not seem to work. Mar 09 17:45:36 All apps, sorry. Mar 09 17:45:51 Any ideas? Mar 09 17:47:20 Hmm, is Need For Speed an OpenGL ES 2.0 app on the Pre? Mar 09 17:47:51 weird - I was expecting all the text files in the windows pdk to have CRLF line terminators, but that's not the case Mar 09 17:48:01 rys: no, CM 1.1 Mar 09 17:49:09 lol, there's actually less with CRLF than in the opensource patches Mar 09 17:49:47 Hello: Can anyone help with the manage feeds question I had? Mar 09 17:50:34 webos app: 28k downloads, iphone version: 8k downloads Mar 09 17:50:44 granted the iphone version is 99 cents, but still Mar 09 17:51:31 Tarkill: it might be a bug. we'll have to look into it Mar 09 17:51:54 Thank you very much for your response. Mar 09 17:53:22 taryou're welcome - I cannot check right now because I am not in service area Mar 09 17:53:33 musta left Mar 09 17:53:40 webchat client doesn't show that Mar 09 17:55:16 anyone know what the PDK release notes refer to when they say DGLES ? Mar 09 17:56:35 anyone notice PDK contains PDL header files? Mar 09 17:57:11 ~~~~ Mar 09 17:57:12 ARGH!!! STOP IT jacques!!! Mar 09 17:57:33 sorry infobot I just wanted to make sure I was still here Mar 09 17:59:00 jacques: DGLES? Mar 09 17:59:16 jacques: yes they have all PDL API documented too Mar 09 17:59:54 compiler -DGLES ? Mar 09 18:01:37 egaudet_work: maybe that's it Mar 09 18:02:04 some context: 3.Fixed: Vertex Buffer Objects in DGLES now support interleaved buffers. Mar 09 18:02:16 1.Added: Frame Buffer Object support to DGLES. There is a glext.h header included with the SDK that has the FBO function prototypes. The library dgles.lib exports the FBO functions. Mar 09 18:02:19 etc. Mar 09 18:04:42 what's PVRTune? it does GPU profiling? Mar 09 18:06:50 mornin Mar 09 18:07:26 is the media sync button gone? Mar 09 18:08:30 yea Mar 09 18:08:33 you can reenable it Mar 09 18:08:36 in device info Mar 09 18:08:43 @ Mousey Mar 09 18:08:57 ah Mar 09 18:08:58 also Mar 09 18:09:14 is broken with itunes still right? Mar 09 18:09:38 yea Mar 09 18:09:41 thats not coming back Mar 09 18:09:41 k Mar 09 18:09:46 u dont need itunesw Mar 09 18:09:53 use one of the free ones Mar 09 18:09:54 i wonder if doubletwist works Mar 09 18:09:58 mediamonkey works lovely Mar 09 18:10:03 yea doubletwist does Mar 09 18:10:04 actually this is for a windows user Mar 09 18:10:05 ok Mar 09 18:11:27 I wish I had windows Mar 09 18:11:37 in my cubicle I can't see outside Mar 09 18:11:40 (you can use any application with the ability to sync lol) Mar 09 18:11:59 jacques: connect a web cam I use to do that, but it got depressing. Mar 09 18:12:08 tho I have a lovely view of the manufacturing / warehouse floor Mar 09 18:12:50 jacques: what you do is get a whiteboard and a marker and start writing random stuff. Mar 09 18:14:44 weird - my screen's not locking (on my pre) Mar 09 18:16:11 * jacques patiently awaits 1.4.1 Mar 09 18:16:37 where do neophytes go to download ringtones? Mar 09 18:16:54 rys: i can't buy anything from anyone because it says "your device is not capable of receiving the requested content" Mar 09 18:17:06 poor neophytes Mar 09 18:18:50 go past the wallpaper site and take a left Mar 09 18:19:28 ...really? Mar 09 18:19:31 emacs irc client? Mar 09 18:19:33 wow Mar 09 18:21:06 jacques: there are funnier things have you gotten the phone to fail to launch or the launcher to show nothing. Mar 09 18:21:21 I wish palm would make some kind of ondevice audio editor like the video editor, could make ringtones Mar 09 18:21:51 * Mousey is underwhelmed with 1.4.0 Mar 09 18:22:46 anyone know how to compile wircd? Mar 09 18:23:00 Mousey: I'm annoyed with it. Some pretty basic stuff is crashing and causing my device to lockup Mar 09 18:23:22 luna crashes about once a day now :-( Mar 09 18:23:34 jacques: yep, same here Mar 09 18:23:38 yup Mar 09 18:23:47 my lock screen has crashed regularly as well Mar 09 18:23:47 my luna is fine Mar 09 18:23:49 and terminal doesn't work anymroe :( Mar 09 18:25:18 and terminus has no | Mar 09 18:25:37 and if terminus had terminal's key layout, i wouldn't use terminal anymore anyway! =( Mar 09 18:26:02 like if I turn on the device(if it turns on, sometimes takes 2 power button presses) lock screen is bypassed. And when I put it on the touchstone, you get the lock orb, but the lockscreen background doesn't appear you just see the regular cards in the BG Mar 09 18:26:17 Mousey: I haven't tried terminus - visually it's good? Mar 09 18:26:29 terminus works all right Mar 09 18:26:58 but yeah extra keys missing. Mar 09 18:27:28 also preware isn't pulling terminus' listing from feed. Mar 09 18:27:37 I had to manually install it Mar 09 18:28:24 jacques: visually, it's everthing i wish terminal was.. also handles margins on the phone way fscking better Mar 09 18:28:36 properly wraps, properly scrolls.. everything terminal doesn't Mar 09 18:28:37 =( Mar 09 18:28:39 Mousey: that's good to hear Mar 09 18:28:48 EXCEPT no | and no sym=ctrl Mar 09 18:28:54 yeah I had those visual issues with terminal Mar 09 18:29:05 it makes it entirely unusable Mar 09 18:29:07 for me Mar 09 18:29:19 terminus is emminently usable, EXCEPT for the keyboard layout Mar 09 18:29:36 oh neat i didn't know about terminus Mar 09 18:29:37 yah no orange-2 for up arrow, no tab completion (sym-i) Mar 09 18:29:48 sym=ctrl as long as you hold it while pressing whatever button you'd normally press Mar 09 18:29:59 who do i have to buy beer for to get terminal's keyboard layout into terminus? Mar 09 18:30:06 sdodson: not in terminus Mar 09 18:30:13 tab completion works fine for me Mar 09 18:30:18 in terminus? Mar 09 18:30:20 ctrl-c works fine for me Mar 09 18:30:21 yes Mar 09 18:30:25 * Mousey tries again Mar 09 18:30:34 press them simultaneously Mar 09 18:30:36 * jacques needs to install terminus, it seems. Mar 09 18:30:37 who wants to make a new on screen keyboard with c++? Mar 09 18:30:42 wow, a new terminal? Mar 09 18:30:45 holy shit! that's a start Mar 09 18:30:47 atlanta: for what? Mar 09 18:30:48 IT'S NOT NEW! Mar 09 18:30:56 ok, sym=ctrl Mar 09 18:30:57 Mousey: Puff was main developer on it Mar 09 18:30:57 wel Terminal is the only one I knew of. Mar 09 18:31:02 Mousey == user error? Mar 09 18:31:18 smoofra: I can build wircd but it needs to be fixed to build with the widk Mar 09 18:31:19 jacques: i'll accept user error over lack-of-feature any day Mar 09 18:31:19 =) Mar 09 18:31:25 egaudet_work: make it faster Mar 09 18:31:38 egaudet_work: what's it written in now? Mar 09 18:31:40 i would STILL like orange-num=keypad Mar 09 18:31:47 egaudet_work: and you can put it in the banner notification area like apple has it Mar 09 18:31:48 js Mar 09 18:32:00 actually as a plug-in it would be best probably Mar 09 18:32:06 :-) Mar 09 18:32:13 multi-touch Mar 09 18:32:20 landscape Mar 09 18:32:23 make it a dialog-scene what u think abuot that Mar 09 18:32:23 ? Mar 09 18:32:29 it's landscape already Mar 09 18:32:46 so that it actually pushes the scene up not on top of it Mar 09 18:32:47 ? Mar 09 18:32:55 that would be useful for wirc Mar 09 18:33:00 atlanta: i haven't looked into that yet though I've planned to for a long time Mar 09 18:33:14 egaudet_work: oh yea we did talk about it a while back Mar 09 18:33:16 that would be nice Mar 09 18:33:22 no time ? Mar 09 18:33:23 i also don't know how to use multi-touch in mojo if we can at all Mar 09 18:33:40 i pretty sure it can be done now Mar 09 18:33:48 yeah haven't had much time plus other things have needed attention first like AUPT Mar 09 18:34:11 can i use the linux commandline in webosquickinstall as i'd use the terminal app? Mar 09 18:34:34 egaudet_work: what's widk? Mar 09 18:34:48 webos-internald development kit Mar 09 18:35:08 which i can't get to build at all. :( Mar 09 18:35:10 egaudet_work: cool cool i understand Mar 09 18:35:11 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS_Internals_PDK Mar 09 18:35:20 where is AUPT at right now . my first day back to the scene Mar 09 18:35:39 pdk?!! Mar 09 18:35:40 i guess i need to try it in a VM that emulates the exact environment it was set up in Mar 09 18:35:57 atlanta: but as a plugin too once we get hidd stuff working would allow to emulate hard key strokes and thus not have to "fake" it in js like it is doing now which doesn't work in things like browser etc... Mar 09 18:36:17 egaudet_work: indeed :-) Mar 09 18:36:27 egaudet_work: it needs lunaservice.h, which i don't know where to find Mar 09 18:36:29 egaudet_work: so like you said might be a good way to go Mar 09 18:36:51 egaudet_work: maybe i can help work on it with you if its not to much a problem to you Mar 09 18:37:01 epv: no promises since I'm a little busy, but if you post (pastebin as appropriate) misc errors I/we can try to help Mar 09 18:37:10 problem? heh I've been hoping someone would jump on with it for a while :P Mar 09 18:37:21 epv: although yeah using officially supported env would be good, but I don't use it, so idk if it works on that either :> Mar 09 18:37:21 well, let me try it the way everyone else does it first, no sense complicating things Mar 09 18:38:11 smoofra: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=libraries/lunaservice.git;a=summary Mar 09 18:38:43 egaudet_work: lol yea i just need to freshen/learn c++ first im guessing Mar 09 18:38:53 epv: widk is currently only supported on ubuntu 9.10 32-bit - too many variables otherwise Mar 09 18:38:56 egaudet_work: ah thanks Mar 09 18:39:09 er: i tunes synced with my pixi! Mar 09 18:39:13 yay! happy neophyte! Mar 09 18:39:23 Mousey: got the older verison of itunes Mar 09 18:39:23 ? Mar 09 18:39:30 nah, probably doubletwist Mar 09 18:39:34 jacques: did you have a chance to try building xorg and friends since last night? :) Mar 09 18:39:39 jacques: right, some people have gotten it working in 64 bit installs, as well, which is what we were discussing Mar 09 18:40:26 dtzWill: no - first my VM ran out of space, then trying to fix that I messed up my sb2 install Mar 09 18:40:45 dtzWill: then I started looking into settting up a new VM with more space Mar 09 18:41:04 how big did you need it to be? Mar 09 18:41:25 apparently 8GiB isn't big enough for me Mar 09 18:41:30 isn't there soem git repo out there that includes all the webos-internals stuff as submodules and compiles it all? Mar 09 18:41:32 YMMV Mar 09 18:41:57 jacques: fwiw i'm rather sure that kvm supports physical partitions just fine Mar 09 18:42:10 yeah i wish i didn't have to let it go through and build, say, enlightenment Mar 09 18:42:18 jacques: ./$KVM -hda /dev/hda2 etc Mar 09 18:42:24 dtzWill: my googling only found complex methods involving device mapper Mar 09 18:42:29 jacques: $KVM b/c it seems different systems have it different things Mar 09 18:42:31 kvm works fine Mar 09 18:42:40 what dtzwill said works for me. Mar 09 18:42:56 hmm Mar 09 18:43:23 I really want that to work, because I have some 20GiB partitions doing nothing Mar 09 18:43:47 avahi seems to actually work now in 1.4. it used to work for 10 minutes or so andthen crap out Mar 09 18:43:54 oh cool Mar 09 18:45:14 jacques: http://wiki.qemu.org/download/qemu-doc.html#host_005fdrives fwiw :) Mar 09 18:45:28 jacques: virtualbox can do phyiscal partitions pretty well Mar 09 18:45:34 (jic you wanted some official docs/guide on how to make that work, etc) Mar 09 18:46:48 jacques: i've got a unbuntu install on my laptop that can run either as a VM under windows, or native Mar 09 18:47:45 i wonder what kinda WebOS phone HTC would make Mar 09 18:48:16 atlanta: forget C++... C Mar 09 18:49:14 egaudet_work: so should i learn C? Mar 09 18:49:21 okie dokie Mar 09 18:49:31 :) Mar 09 18:49:46 learn both Mar 09 18:50:24 But I'd prefer to just do it in C unless there's a good reason to do it in C++ Mar 09 18:50:36 oh ok ++ just sounded good to me Mar 09 18:50:36 lmfao Mar 09 18:50:39 haha me pre build working space is currently ~22G haha Mar 09 18:50:59 egaudet_work: u know C? Mar 09 18:51:00 but i have...a lot of stuff there haha Mar 09 18:51:14 yeah I know C Mar 09 18:51:22 I work mainly with C Mar 09 18:51:39 dtzWill: thanks - reading Mar 09 18:52:02 egaudet_work: lucky basterd. i'm beset by c++ Mar 09 18:52:35 C FTW Mar 09 18:52:40 C++ FTL Mar 09 18:52:41 egaudet_work: aww u smart fucker lol Mar 09 18:53:24 C is the awesome Mar 09 18:53:43 the problem with c++ is that it attracts a certain kind of programer that always insists on overcomplicating everything Mar 09 18:54:00 question if u create something in C for windows can you compile it for unix/or mac also Mar 09 18:54:00 ? Mar 09 18:54:21 atlanta: well, it depends Mar 09 18:54:36 smoofra: on ? Mar 09 18:54:38 the apis u use? Mar 09 18:54:54 atlanta: yup Mar 09 18:55:00 gotcha Mar 09 18:55:03 10-4 Mar 09 18:55:10 smoofra: yeah I know that type of programmer Mar 09 18:55:17 is there any language that is best to program in for cross platform? Mar 09 18:55:48 java Mar 09 18:55:49 :P Mar 09 18:56:14 java... even though its a pain in the ass... has a virtual machine to run code on nearly any platform you can imagine Mar 09 18:56:27 yeah if portability is your #1 goal, that's what java was made for :P Mar 09 18:56:27 jacques: do you need to make a gui? Mar 09 18:56:28 C# and mono ? Mar 09 18:56:30 lol Mar 09 18:56:45 loot-: i hate that look of java apps Mar 09 18:56:45 lol Mar 09 18:56:52 * jacques too Mar 09 18:56:55 egaudet_work: gotcha Mar 09 18:56:57 i hate the look of .net apps Mar 09 18:56:57 you mention mono you start a war Mar 09 18:56:58 :P Mar 09 18:57:05 lol :-x Mar 09 18:57:10 mono FTL Mar 09 18:57:10 ugh .net sux Mar 09 18:57:21 lol Mar 09 18:57:30 ok ok java i get it Mar 09 18:57:30 lol Mar 09 18:57:32 I have never experienced a .net app that didn't crash Mar 09 18:58:16 welcome to Mono Mar 09 18:58:26 mono is a disease Mar 09 18:58:29 no really... Mar 09 18:59:01 that only makes it funnier Mar 09 18:59:54 lol Mar 09 19:01:39 oh man if we can get this onscreen keyboard working nicely in C with multi touch Mar 09 19:01:43 is going to be the BOMB Mar 09 19:02:18 atlanta: i dont' get it. whats wrong with the physical keyboard? Mar 09 19:02:25 besides the fact that it doesn't have a pipe Mar 09 19:03:45 yeah i don't get why you'd want onscreen kbd if you have a real one Mar 09 19:03:52 smoofra: not fast enough, would be nice to be in the dialog scene area and pushes the scene up instead of on top Mar 09 19:03:53 i haaaaaate typing on iphones Mar 09 19:04:25 me to but it is better than typing ONSCREEN than the pre Mar 09 19:04:54 speaking of keyboard, in the last 2 updates did Palm bump the repeat rate on keypresses? Mar 09 19:05:58 been noticing extra spacing and sometimes double letters for a bit now Mar 09 19:06:09 not that i have noticed Mar 09 19:06:12 smoofra: no (good) landscape typing with the hw keyboard Mar 09 19:06:18 terminal would be 10 nicer if there was Mar 09 19:06:39 and multitouch on the onscreeen keyboard would be killer Mar 09 19:06:39 ! Mar 09 19:07:19 there are many reasons to want on oskb Mar 09 19:07:41 i disagree Mar 09 19:07:44 landscape, quick texts, save slider abuse etc... Mar 09 19:07:45 it kept me off the nokia nseries Mar 09 19:07:56 until the n810 had a hardware keyb Mar 09 19:08:08 I never said "many reasons to want oskb and NO hw kb" Mar 09 19:08:26 yea i wont get a phone unless it has HW Mar 09 19:08:28 kb Mar 09 19:08:36 but both is a plus Mar 09 19:08:39 hw keyboard is necessity for me as well, but I do find uses for onscreen one as well Mar 09 19:08:41 like egaudet_work said Mar 09 19:08:48 indeed Mar 09 19:08:56 I want a better hw kb Mar 09 19:09:06 love it for my 1 word text Mar 09 19:09:11 i want a landscape slider :P Mar 09 19:09:14 Kyusaku: you dont like current Mar 09 19:09:26 egaudet_work: that would work too lol Mar 09 19:09:44 atlanta: the keys need to be raised more Mar 09 19:10:10 I find myself almost digging at the keys at times Mar 09 19:10:14 ehhhh i like them hand slides nicely to letters Mar 09 19:10:30 but then again every hand is made differnt Mar 09 19:10:45 probably why I'm getting that increased repeat rate Mar 09 19:11:16 Multiple touches are indicated with a mouse event field called event.motion.which. Mar 09 19:11:20 oopsss Mar 09 19:11:35 I wish they could make pre keyboard feel like pixi Mar 09 19:12:12 raised more Mar 09 19:12:12 ? Mar 09 19:12:18 never played with a pixi Mar 09 19:12:36 pixi really got the bum end of the webos deal Mar 09 19:12:39 they don't get anything fun Mar 09 19:13:19 one thing I don't care for on pixi KB is all the keys are straight Mar 09 19:13:34 I like the layout curved Mar 09 19:13:41 ur just a picky fucker Mar 09 19:13:41 lol Mar 09 19:13:53 no insult mented :-) Mar 09 19:14:00 I picked up a pixi and could immediately type faster Mar 09 19:14:00 haha that's why I stuck with my treo over a centro Mar 09 19:14:14 keys are raised more and have better tactile feedback Mar 09 19:14:25 jacques: ill have to check one out Mar 09 19:17:36 i hated the centro keyboard Mar 09 19:17:41 had to type with my thumb nails Mar 09 19:19:40 he Mar 09 19:19:48 whats up all? Mar 09 19:21:07 with the PDK being released, what type of security measures is webos-internals taking with distributing PDK binaries? Mar 09 19:22:40 "Legend79 emailed us to note that Palm has chosen to use Simple DirectMedia Layer (SDL) for hardware access - which to us looks like yet another way to enable easy porting." Mar 09 19:22:48 welcome to October 2009, PreCentral.net Mar 09 19:23:13 lol. Mar 09 19:25:09 boo ... no release for linux? Mar 09 19:25:51 on the other hand, they're using the same toolchain we're using on webos internals Mar 09 19:25:54 heh Mar 09 19:26:36 which we chose because it's what they build all their stuff with :-P Mar 09 19:26:53 true Mar 09 19:27:18 my pdl documentation was pretty spot on, woot Mar 09 19:27:19 point being that it's pretty much the same pdk Mar 09 19:27:25 yeah, it is Mar 09 19:27:51 mdklein: nice Mar 09 19:29:39 funny reading through all their stuff on alpha blending Mar 09 19:29:47 considering that their GL implementation is HORRIBLE at alpha blending Mar 09 19:29:52 like 3fps horrible Mar 09 19:30:02 xcomp: where are you reading that? Mar 09 19:30:10 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1979&Itemid=337 Mar 09 19:30:19 thanks Mar 09 19:31:03 hmm "OpenGL function calls are only supported from the main application thread. Behavior is undefined if other threads attempt to interact with OpenGL. " Mar 09 19:31:27 xcomp: oh it wasn't just me for alpha blending being TERRIBLE Mar 09 19:32:13 dtzWill: no, wasn't just you. evas benchmarks were pathetic Mar 09 19:32:19 er: it's the fact that Palm didn't think of a ringtone store as well as an app store. And their phone isn't compatible with other ringtone stores, including verizon. Mar 09 19:32:31 angry neophytes! Mar 09 19:32:31 brb Mar 09 19:32:33 no ringtones! Mar 09 19:32:51 alpha blending is even bad with gles2 ? Mar 09 19:32:58 I see lots of pixi references in the pdk docs, did they enable the gpu on pixi yet? Mar 09 19:33:07 jacques: evas uses gles2, so yes Mar 09 19:33:13 xcomp: argh Mar 09 19:33:36 mdklein: i just noticed that as well .. Mar 09 19:33:39 jacques: yeah, that's why visualboyadvance doesn't have transparent on-screen controls... it just /destroyted/ performance Mar 09 19:33:43 has anyone checked pixi 1.4 for gl libs ? Mar 09 19:33:47 "For forward compatibility with future devices, your application should support different screen sizes." hmm Mar 09 19:34:03 dtzWill: that's terrible Mar 09 19:34:28 dtzWill: but quake has them ? Mar 09 19:34:44 what's the difference? Mar 09 19:34:46 yeah, but i'm not gles2 expert. so having the evas team confirm it is reassuring Mar 09 19:35:21 jacques: quake does, kinda. it's not gl, it's all done in software. Mar 09 19:35:57 dtzWill: but vba is gl? I didn't know that Mar 09 19:36:19 jacques: well it's not normally. for whatever reason blitting in sdl vs uploading as a texture in gl... the gl version was lots faster. Mar 09 19:36:35 "One of the things that differentiates the Palm platform from others is an alpha channel in the destination frame buffer. " AHA!!! Mar 09 19:36:36 jacques: also makes scaling filters, rotation, and scaling in general, a lot faster :) Mar 09 19:36:57 I knew it Mar 09 19:37:09 jacques: you definitely called that Mar 09 19:37:19 everything I read said alpha channel in dest was not used Mar 09 19:37:32 biab - snack machine calling Mar 09 19:38:11 jacques: so what's the fix again? you seem on the ball, and i _think_ xorg-server might be suffering for it. not sure, though. Mar 09 19:38:36 jacques: lol @ "on the ball", i just mean you seem to have this clear/figured out, so maybe you know the fix instead of me going and re-looking that stuff up :D Mar 09 20:00:51 making small update for jstop. If autoGC is disabled, I'll close the dashboard scene. No need for that to be there if its not being used. Mar 09 20:02:13 bitshifter1001: we've had the WIDK for some time, I don't think the PDK beta changes anything Mar 09 20:02:49 egaudet_work: it lets us take existing preware apps and make them into app-catalog-suitable apps, no? Mar 09 20:03:05 egaudet_work: first, thanks for responding Mar 09 20:03:39 egaudet_work: just makes me a little nervous if all source isn't supplied Mar 09 20:04:31 dtzWill: yeah (for the future webOS version that supports it officially) Mar 09 20:04:42 but that doesn't have anything to do with webos-internals security Mar 09 20:04:43 egaudet_work: I came across this today and it got me thinking again http://research.pandasecurity.com/vodafone-distributes-mariposa/ Mar 09 20:05:07 right, I understand Mar 09 20:05:08 bitshifter1001: well I don't think you'll see any closed source binaries distributed in default preware feeds if that's what you mean Mar 09 20:05:21 yes Mar 09 20:05:40 thanks for clarifying though Mar 09 20:06:06 we've had binaries in the webos-internals feeds for a while (like all the SDL game ports etc...) They are all open source and the code can be found on git.webosinternals.org Mar 09 20:06:35 yea, I always check to see if the source is available :) Mar 09 20:07:36 We will always have a serious focus on keeping default feeds in Preware trusted Mar 09 20:08:52 I have seen it discussed before, but just wanted to double check now that the PDK makes it a little easier for more ppl to develop plugins, etc Mar 09 20:10:08 hm, i can't build the widk even by cut-n-pasting the instructions on webos-internals.org in a ubuntu 9.10 32 bit system exactly as described. Mar 09 20:10:20 i wonder what's changed Mar 09 20:10:39 epv: where's it failing? Mar 09 20:10:50 right now the build fails on missing pthread definitions in trying to build glib-2.0 Mar 09 20:10:55 in "make stage" Mar 09 20:11:07 sorry - ran into my supervisor Mar 09 20:11:09 back Mar 09 20:12:04 logging the output now to try to watch more closely Mar 09 20:12:21 epv: if you pastebin the result I'll take a look. sounds familiar but don't remember the cause Mar 09 20:12:25 ok Mar 09 20:12:28 dtzWill: I made a function which set all the alpha values of the dest surface to opaque - it appeared when kdrive wrote to the surface memory, it was setting alpha to 0 Mar 09 20:12:32 i spend entirely too much time building with the widk lol Mar 09 20:12:59 jacques: so you mean the 'dest' surface--the one returned from SDL_SetVideoMode. not some internal SDL dest thing? Mar 09 20:13:00 it's a little sad to see that there's no official pdk drop for linux, but I guess it makes sense. Mar 09 20:13:10 it doesn't make sense :( Mar 09 20:13:10 lol Mar 09 20:13:15 dtzWill: yeah Mar 09 20:13:30 jacques: kk ty Mar 09 20:13:32 well, the packages for linux would need to have a specific gcc version Mar 09 20:13:42 dtzWill: but I only saw the alpha problem when using 32bpp Mar 09 20:13:51 i'm sure someone is figuring out all the dependancies for each linux package Mar 09 20:13:55 jacques: yeah, was gonna say. let's just ditch the extra channel Mar 09 20:14:13 I need to talk to someone who's been using the WebOS Internals PDK and now has checked out Palms. Anyone around? Mar 09 20:14:16 dtzWill: which according to the patch comments is the best performing - because other bpp settings implicitly create a shadow surface Mar 09 20:14:29 jacques: hmm. Mar 09 20:15:12 shore wood be naace if palm would put the opensource patches up for 1.4.0 Mar 09 20:15:17 jacques: you're right, but that's lame. and they clearly follow up on the comments creating a backbuffer. well, as you'd expect they don't just make things up :) Mar 09 20:15:26 jacques: I'll just use gl for blitting then :):) Mar 09 20:15:36 dtzWill: that might be best Mar 09 20:15:51 running debian's vba in X presently haha Mar 09 20:16:55 oh zomg mine's faster. i mean it really really should be, but sanity check ;) Mar 09 20:17:07 lol Mar 09 20:17:15 extra layers, number of misc opts for the platform, but ... still wanted to confirm xD Mar 09 20:17:20 oh you meant in X *on the pre* cool Mar 09 20:17:34 jacques: oh hahah. not just running vba arbitraryl, that's entirely uninteresting Mar 09 20:18:05 jacques: debian chroot seems to be the best/easiest/etc way to get stuff running. not sure if it's worthwhile to 'port' over various apps/window managers/etc if we can just apt-get them... Mar 09 20:18:16 makes it rather preware-unfriendly though, but idk if people care Mar 09 20:19:02 we'll see, i'll probably end up packaging it anyway just because :) Mar 09 20:20:49 do what you want Mar 09 20:21:16 if one of the things you want to do is respond to user demand, that's cool too :-) Mar 09 20:21:46 I don't have a good feel for that - for example I didn't know how popular terminal is Mar 09 20:22:09 jacques: haha good call. thing is i'm not sure what the user demand could/would/might be, but regardless people like myself and you might like it, have fun.. but not really sure direct application Mar 09 20:22:27 some ppl will just want stuff that looks cool - to demo capabilities, and some ppl will want to actually use X I'm sure Mar 09 20:22:35 only thing I could see is it as a dependency for some killer gtk-based (well and before native qt, qt-based) applications Mar 09 20:22:47 if such things exist Mar 09 20:22:57 running firefox is kinda neat Mar 09 20:23:08 haha Mar 09 20:23:16 err iceweasel, w/e Mar 09 20:23:49 I'm kinda interested in display of remote apps Mar 09 20:24:04 how's xterm? Mar 09 20:24:39 epv: xterm, etc, work just fine. the issue is that my keyboard support is limited, for now. quick proof of concept keyboard hackery, eventually it sohuld completely and entirely work. Mar 09 20:24:42 * jacques prefers mrxvt Mar 09 20:24:59 epv: heck xterm is in ipkg-opt :) Mar 09 20:25:09 i generally use urxvt Mar 09 20:25:14 although w/o a window manager it doesn't fit the screen properly Mar 09 20:25:19 hmm, it will probably pull in lots of duplicate libs tho Mar 09 20:25:21 got sick of jacking with unicode Mar 09 20:25:38 jacques: well more than i'd like, but then again it has gtk, etc, which I don't feel like building :P Mar 09 20:25:45 bougyman: is urxvt tabbed? that's what I like about mrxvt (over rxvt) Mar 09 20:25:52 no idea. Mar 09 20:25:58 i use GNUscreen for session in terms. Mar 09 20:26:11 ah Mar 09 20:27:07 oh, it's got a daemon process now Mar 09 20:27:19 urxvtcd, you connect to the daemon with urxvtc Mar 09 20:27:30 interesting Mar 09 20:28:43 hmm http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2009/01/09/what-the-urxvt-tabbed/ Mar 09 20:30:05 bpadalino|work: There appears to be GPU related packages for the pixi in the pdk... I don't have a pixi to verify, but the filenames look promising. Mar 09 20:32:04 heh every time i run make stage it fails somewhere else, it's like magic Mar 09 20:32:55 jacques, yes urxvt have tabs Mar 09 20:33:23 epv: yeah it's a bit rough. what we really need is a build box building the packges directory on our supported setup and bitching at people who break it :) Mar 09 20:33:31 ooh :) Mar 09 20:33:40 not that I have the resources for that, or suggest that the ones we have be spent on that per se Mar 09 20:33:45 just that that would be good :) Mar 09 20:33:52 it's just a really big nest of makefileage, and all Mar 09 20:34:05 hard to track down or fix problems Mar 09 20:35:54 well if you're making progress, gj. feel free to suggest changes as you make them/etc, so others don't share your pain Mar 09 20:41:03 Just picked up my Pre and stared at the launcher for 30 seconds, at a complete loss for why I picked it up in the first place. Mar 09 20:41:54 just to bask in its glory? Mar 09 20:41:57 because the command prompt is missing? Mar 09 20:42:04 haha Mar 09 20:42:11 Strong possibilities. Mar 09 20:42:35 I decided to check Preware for updates...despite that definitely not being what I picked it up for. Mar 09 20:45:05 That happens to me far more often than it is legal to Mar 09 20:45:26 any new news on X11 or QT? Mar 09 20:53:10 That, presumably, is a "no"? xD Mar 09 20:53:34 there's been QT discussion Mar 09 20:53:46 is it over? did i miss it? Mar 09 20:54:05 can i open Pidgin cards yet? ^_^ Mar 09 20:54:14 * Mousey stfu's Mar 09 20:54:49 Mousey: not sure the point, doesn't webos use libpurple anyway? Mar 09 20:55:10 totally does Mar 09 20:55:17 IF you can get jabber working? Mar 09 20:55:19 Mousey: and while it's not it's own card, I can run pidgin just fine :). although i need more keyboard support before I can type the password to any of my accounts... Mar 09 20:55:22 you're greg_roll redux! Mar 09 20:55:50 lol Mar 09 20:56:07 so jftr, http://tinyurl.com/y9v9qk3 -- returns lots of results, NONE actually let you dl to the pixi Mar 09 20:56:48 with no disrespect i have no idea who greg_roll is lol Mar 09 21:00:01 dtzWill: he fixed the palm brain damaged use of libpurple that doesn't allow jabber.. he also added yahoo,gadugadu,qq,msn, and most of the other missing IM protocols to the messaging app Mar 09 21:00:22 oh fun. and that worked reasonably well? Mar 09 21:00:28 (apparently) he doesn't hang out in here, and the ipks aren't in preware (god knows why), but they're all available on precentral's forums Mar 09 21:00:30 works GREAT Mar 09 21:00:40 i run my own jabber server, its indispensible Mar 09 21:00:53 i wonder why palm didn't ship with them. they're not so worthless as to just flat out ignore that, it's an easy feature win. Mar 09 21:01:03 Mousey, lol he added gadu gadu? Mar 09 21:01:14 i could be making that part up, but the list is very extensive Mar 09 21:01:19 en0x: probably just recompiled libpurple with support for everything Mar 09 21:01:22 * Mousey checks Mar 09 21:01:22 i was waiting for this Mar 09 21:01:27 i'm going check Mar 09 21:01:40 oh wait.. phone locked up randomly Mar 09 21:01:46 * Mousey expects luna to reboot any moment Mar 09 21:01:48 dtzWill, probably but still u need to modify the messaging app tho Mar 09 21:01:49 * Mousey taps foot Mar 09 21:02:14 yep Mar 09 21:02:16 luna reboot Mar 09 21:02:28 en0x: oh, I suppose you would :). gui doesn't reflectively iterate over the possible account settings and autogenerate UI's? :):) Mar 09 21:02:54 actually greg_roll's done all that already oto Mar 09 21:02:55 too, even Mar 09 21:03:07 dtzWill, idk Mar 09 21:04:36 oh, no gadu gadu Mar 09 21:04:36 Mousey, there is no gadu gadu ;( eh :( Mar 09 21:04:36 sorry Mar 09 21:04:44 jinx! Mar 09 21:04:54 but i can't imagine it'd be hard to piggyback on his work to add Mar 09 21:05:07 hell, each service is already its own ipk tobegin with Mar 09 21:05:27 tobeginwith should be one word, like nevertheless or heretofore Mar 09 21:05:35 tbw Mar 09 21:05:35 or inbefore Mar 09 21:05:37 ftw Mar 09 21:05:42 omg! Mar 09 21:05:44 gg! Mar 09 21:05:45 i posted in his thread maybe he will answer now :P Mar 09 21:05:52 yay threads! Mar 09 21:06:15 ;] Mar 09 21:16:40 xchat ftw Mar 09 21:17:47 I wanna see quassel Mar 09 21:17:57 dtzwill, sup hehe Mar 09 21:18:39 egaudet_work: if I made my debian chroot better I could throw kde/qt on there and give it a shot Mar 09 21:18:55 egaudet_work: although that probably would be better on the more direct qt deal Mar 09 21:19:16 ty infobot i know im root xD Mar 09 21:19:32 still xchat :P I'm gonna have to try soon Mar 09 21:19:33 aw apt doesn't have quassel Mar 09 21:19:42 dtzWill: screenshots? Mar 09 21:19:53 i probably should make some :D Mar 09 21:20:07 apt has to have quassel? Mar 09 21:20:33 not on mine, maybe not for arm? Mar 09 21:22:00 egaudet_work: http://wdtz.org/pre.xchat.screen Mar 09 21:22:14 egaudet_work: that' just off fbcat, 'xv' and other tools view it, but my browser doesn't Mar 09 21:22:28 egaudet_work: i'll prepare some/more later and get them png-ified Mar 09 21:22:40 cya Mar 09 21:22:57 :D Mar 09 21:23:53 egaudet_work: http://wdtz.org/pre.xchat.png there we go Mar 09 21:24:05 ah, almost 3:30 Mar 09 21:24:07 bbl :) Mar 09 21:24:18 also not sure why that's cut off o_O Mar 09 21:24:56 what are you running on the pre there? Mar 09 21:25:03 egaudet_work: lxde Mar 09 21:25:04 i've been a bit out of the loop Mar 09 21:25:12 egaudet_work: oh that's X Mar 09 21:25:17 haha, awesome Mar 09 21:25:31 egaudet_work: with lxde on it, pidgin, iceweasel, xchat hehe Mar 09 21:25:36 umwat??? Mar 09 21:25:42 libpurple fixed? Mar 09 21:25:43 xD Mar 09 21:25:44 that'll definitely bring the potential of more ports to the pre!! Mar 09 21:25:48 sweet perform well? Mar 09 21:26:07 egaudet_work: well it performs alright. not appropriate for games. Mar 09 21:26:10 i caught the tail end of the convo as i put my laptop to sleep to commute home Mar 09 21:26:16 egaudet_work: very very usable, but in a utility applications kinda way Mar 09 21:26:23 X11 running? Mar 09 21:26:23 xD Mar 09 21:26:33 will it run on top of Luna, or do you have to kill Luna first? Mar 09 21:26:40 it's in a card Mar 09 21:26:50 dtzWill: X11? Mar 09 21:27:15 Cerealklr: yes, i've been working on it (discussing it here a bunch) for 1-2 weeks haha Mar 09 21:27:30 Yes, I've heard. I was asking if you had it running Mar 09 21:27:30 xD Mar 09 21:27:36 forget Robin, bring Nightwing Mar 09 21:27:46 I've been trying to keep track of the progress on QT and X11 since I heard about them yesterday. Mar 09 21:27:47 whoops Mar 09 21:27:47 =P Mar 09 21:27:53 alt+# fail Mar 09 21:28:02 Scant/no information on the wiki yet Mar 09 21:28:06 alright well I gtg, bbl. cya guys :) Mar 09 21:28:13 Awh, kbai Mar 09 21:28:18 Cerealklr: yeah i'll document/package/screenshot/etc it at some point Mar 09 21:28:30 Cool =] ttyl! Mar 09 21:28:50 do we have VNC for Pre solution? Mar 09 21:28:53 Okay, next topic. Anyone here from about 20 minutes ago? libpurple being repaired was discussed? Mar 09 21:28:53 client Mar 09 21:29:05 it depends, do you mean TRUE VNC? xD Mar 09 21:29:21 does sdlvnc not work? Mar 09 21:29:30 and rdesktop/vncviewer from x should work just fine............ Mar 09 21:29:32 ;) Mar 09 21:29:36 AH i'm already late Mar 09 21:29:37 haha Mar 09 21:29:39 xD Mar 09 21:29:41 cya for rela Mar 09 21:29:42 dtzWill: I am just unaware of what we have that's all Mar 09 21:29:43 gogogo =P Mar 09 21:29:44 bai Mar 09 21:29:46 *real Mar 09 21:29:52 forgot about sdlvnc and hadn't tried it yet Mar 09 21:29:55 morning Mar 09 21:30:02 g'mornin! Mar 09 21:30:27 Cerealklr: http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/233983-messaging-plugins-add-more-im-options-your-pre.html Mar 09 21:30:29 mornin Mar 09 21:30:50 Thank you! =] Mar 09 21:31:03 brb, just registered my nick Mar 09 21:33:27 Quick Question: What feed is the messaging patch on? (Or is it not on one yet?). Mar 09 21:34:53 greg's isn't on any feed Mar 09 21:35:02 dtzWill: ever see this in trying to build the WIDK? http://xymoc.com/~eric/fail.txt Mar 09 21:35:05 gonna have to QI it Mar 09 21:35:30 epv: dtzWill just left to work. Mar 09 21:35:34 oops. Mar 09 21:35:39 sdlvnc? Mar 09 21:35:42 vnc server for pre?? Mar 09 21:35:47 that's #3 on my wishlist! Mar 09 21:35:48 Kyusaku: Damn, thank you. Mar 09 21:36:00 Mousey: mhmm, check the wiki for more information. Mar 09 21:36:07 SERVER, right? not client? Mar 09 21:36:40 client Mar 09 21:36:52 to connect to machine running server Mar 09 21:37:23 Mousey: An XTight VNC Server can be run in a debian image on the Pre though, if you like. Mar 09 21:37:44 an example of this is also on the Wiki, where the SDLVNC app is used to connect via localhost to a debian image running the VNC server Mar 09 21:37:53 no, #3 on my list is the WebOS vnc SERVER Mar 09 21:37:54 ^_^ Mar 09 21:37:56 which is a sort of poor-man's way of running an entire Debian distro in a card. Mar 09 21:37:57 sorry - I had to do some work again Mar 09 21:37:57 xD Mar 09 21:38:10 wb Jacques Mar 09 21:38:34 * Mousey gives jacques some cookies (which expire at the end of the month) Mar 09 21:38:52 * Mousey allow, block, allow for session Mar 09 21:39:54 is nukem3D suppose to tank on install for 1.3.5.1? Mar 09 21:41:14 anyone having issues with pdfview hanging on startup in 1.4? Mar 09 21:41:17 I don't understand why ppl keep coming to my cubicle and asking me to do things Mar 09 21:41:24 can't they see I'm on IRC ? Mar 09 21:41:41 no pdf, but i was getting e-mail hanging all the time Mar 09 21:41:44 jacques: if I knew where your cube was I'd stop by, too Mar 09 21:42:02 heh Mar 09 21:42:27 so, ive been gone today Mar 09 21:42:40 PDK do anything neat that WIDK wasnt already doing? Mar 09 21:42:44 Not to fear, the simple fix is to start leaving small dead things about the place Mar 09 21:42:53 in an ever widening circle about your cubicle Mar 09 21:43:07 in a week or so, start a few rumors involving the term "kill zone" Mar 09 21:43:12 and it'll never be an issue again. Mar 09 21:43:17 FuMan: WIDK is a true superset of PDK Mar 09 21:43:31 As an added bonus, you'll have awesome job security (or at least an awesome escort on your way out). Mar 09 21:43:33 meaning O_o Mar 09 21:43:40 xD Mar 09 21:43:46 FuMan: meaning that PDK is a true subset of WIDK Mar 09 21:43:53 epv: do you have native g++ installed ? Mar 09 21:43:56 Really? Mar 09 21:44:15 epv: it's a quirk of sb2 that it wants the native versions of some things installed even it it's not going to use them Mar 09 21:44:17 meaning O_o Mar 09 21:44:19 So, as per usual the homebrew is a step up and 4 times freer? xD Mar 09 21:44:33 homebrew community* Mar 09 21:44:43 jacques: yes, since the instructions specify you should have build-essential installed Mar 09 21:44:45 Cerealklr: there's nothing un-free about the PDK that is free in the WIDK Mar 09 21:44:59 What I mean is in terms of functionality. Mar 09 21:45:12 I havn't researched either in depth yet, unfortunately, but from the way you described it Mar 09 21:45:18 epv: does build-essential install g++ ? Mar 09 21:45:34 the WIDK provides a wider range of tools and a more comprehensive API than the PDK Mar 09 21:45:37 yeah, homebrew is always 10 steps ahead, that's the nature of the beast - we don't need to support end-users if we don't want to :-) Mar 09 21:45:48 hahahaha, well said. Mar 09 21:46:01 jacques: is g++ essential? :) Mar 09 21:46:07 jacques: i believe so, and i do have g++ installed, at any rate Mar 09 21:46:08 epv: if that's not the problem, there should be a config.log file in the root dir of the package you are trying to build - that would tell you why it thinks g++ cannot produce executables Mar 09 21:46:16 zsoc_wirc: not in my book Mar 09 21:46:21 Now, who knows how to unpack a .dmg file in Linux, so we can add the PDK headers to the WIDK Mar 09 21:46:33 rwhitby: I used wine on the windows one Mar 09 21:46:48 dunno how to unpack a .dmg on linux Mar 09 21:47:00 it's prtobably possible tho Mar 09 21:47:00 rwhitby: Carefully Mar 09 21:47:14 heh, would being on a mac and having limited knowledge of what you need be helpful at this point? Mar 09 21:47:26 FuMan: I'm on a Mac Mar 09 21:47:29 just updated to 1.4... need help updating my tweaks Mar 09 21:47:40 epv: look for config.log in /srv/preware/cross-compile/packages/fishfillets/build/src Mar 09 21:47:41 here we go Mar 09 21:47:44 this looks right: Mar 09 21:47:47 rwhitby: http://baghira.sourceforge.net/dmg.htm Mar 09 21:48:02 grr php and javascript Mar 09 21:48:02 oh, well then I can't help then :P Mar 09 21:48:14 hrm, do failed preware installs log somewhere? Mar 09 21:48:17 my preware has errors when loading... what do i do? Mar 09 21:48:28 i keep putting += and turning all my strings to 0 in php Mar 09 21:48:30 rwhitby: do you have reason to believe the osx header files are different from the windows ones? Mar 09 21:48:51 oilsworkn: wimp Mar 09 21:49:06 Try going from PHP to Javascript to Python to LISP and back again in a single days work. Mar 09 21:49:21 mysql keeps being all error at like 1 near "0" Mar 09 21:49:27 jacques: yes Mar 09 21:49:28 and don't forget to get your 45 page play homework assignment entirely written over the weekend. Mar 09 21:49:29 xD Mar 09 21:49:46 jacques: I've had the PDK early access for over a month. Mar 09 21:49:49 rwhitby: =:-o Mar 09 21:49:57 * Cerealklr is not surprised. Mar 09 21:51:04 epv: anything? can you pastebin the config.log ? Mar 09 21:51:14 * Cerealklr is waiting patiently to learn more about the QT and X11 ports. xD Mar 09 21:51:18 at least up until the g++ error Mar 09 21:51:44 rwhitby: do you know what DGLES is ? Mar 09 21:52:01 pickleusmc: try using Webos QI to uninstall/reinstall preware Mar 09 21:52:02 jacques: nope Mar 09 21:52:29 jacques: Since 29 Jan to be exact ;-) Mar 09 21:52:51 Awh hex Mar 09 21:52:59 rwhitby: the windows PDK release notes repeatedly reference DGLES Mar 09 21:53:23 jacques: I expect that's how you emulate the OpenGL support on Windows Mar 09 21:54:00 ooooh. that makes sense from the context Mar 09 21:54:13 how do we emulate it from linux? Mar 09 21:54:17 ;-P Mar 09 21:54:36 wait til the mesa gles state tracker is working? Mar 09 21:59:41 * oilsworkn lols @ halo pre port Mar 09 22:00:42 this seems wrong "This allows you to set, for each pixel, not only the red, green, and blue values, but also the alpha value, which can range from 0 (completely transparent) to 1 (completely opaque)." Mar 09 22:00:52 competely opaque is 255 Mar 09 22:01:25 unless its a $ Mar 09 22:01:31 0.5 = half transparent Mar 09 22:01:38 a $? no a % Mar 09 22:02:19 later in the doc they are indeed talking like the value is a float Mar 09 22:02:38 but that's not how it was working for me Mar 09 22:02:47 lol Mar 09 22:02:51 nor how it's documented everywhere else Mar 09 22:04:18 http://www.libsdl.org/docs/html/sdlsetalpha.html Mar 09 22:05:22 jacques: Failboat? Have you tried using a float in that range? Mar 09 22:05:45 I wonder if it supports both for some arcane reason? Mar 09 22:05:50 oooh, they are talking about GL blending in that part ... maybe Mar 09 22:05:54 oh. Mar 09 22:05:58 GL does use floats Mar 09 22:06:01 that makes significantly more sense. Mar 09 22:06:01 x Mar 09 22:06:03 xD* Mar 09 22:06:16 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1979&Itemid=337#AlphaBlending Mar 09 22:06:19 "Note that distribution of apps built with the public beta PDK will require functionality provided in an upcoming Palm webOS update, to be released during the middle of this year. The current version of webOS supports limited distribution of games built with the private early-access PDK, but the technologies and processes that enable this limited distribution don’t allow for wider distribution." Mar 09 22:06:30 that says sand-boxing or non-priv user to me Mar 09 22:06:38 =/ Mar 09 22:06:45 middle of the year?? :-( Mar 09 22:07:01 Question is whether or not they'll still allow privileged access to apps with special permissions. Mar 09 22:07:24 e.g. (The App Catalog makes you wander through a warning dialogue or two before installing the app) Mar 09 22:07:48 Or perhaps at least only allowing official and tested apps to have the privs? Mar 09 22:07:56 so, apparently the reason palm's dest surface uses the alpha channel is so you can have video showing through holes in your graphics Mar 09 22:08:11 kinda neat Mar 09 22:08:15 lol Mar 09 22:08:19 but still confusing Mar 09 22:08:25 i dont know what it is about this thread that crys fake to me Mar 09 22:08:26 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/235329-halo-palm-pre.html Mar 09 22:09:41 lol Mar 09 22:10:02 Cool story bor. Mar 09 22:10:03 bro* Mar 09 22:10:15 idk if its the "since i gaming got popular on pre 3 weeks ago i made a fully functional halo port" Mar 09 22:10:19 or the obviously fake pics Mar 09 22:10:26 or the "icon designs?" Mar 09 22:10:38 or the promise of halflife Mar 09 22:10:42 lol Mar 09 22:11:08 or all the time put into that top picture and the control layout for something that isn't released Mar 09 22:11:21 there's a halo for winCE ? Mar 09 22:11:29 idk, its just a lot of things Mar 09 22:11:30 lol Mar 09 22:11:40 * rwhitby adds http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2295318 Mar 09 22:12:13 lol Mar 09 22:12:30 hahahhaha! Mar 09 22:12:46 it's so obviously fake I don't see the point Mar 09 22:12:57 look at the pictures from his "really crappy webcam" Mar 09 22:12:59 y'all's postin' in a troll thread Mar 09 22:13:04 it's not nearly april 1 Mar 09 22:13:19 had it BEEN april 1st tho? that would have been an awesome poast Mar 09 22:13:23 hrmm Mar 09 22:13:25 lol Mar 09 22:13:30 So full of not-win. Mar 09 22:13:30 xD Mar 09 22:13:45 i should ask if the release date in april is the 1st Mar 09 22:13:45 more build fail: http://xymoc.com/~eric/fail2.txt Mar 09 22:14:02 * Cerealklr secretly putting the finishing touches on the HL2Pre port Mar 09 22:14:03 is halo wine capable, and is wine capable of outputting to sdl? Obviously I don't believe that forum post, but technically it could be conceptually possible ;) Mar 09 22:14:28 *ahem* Obviously fake *shifty eyes* Yes... Mar 09 22:14:55 jacques: the CE in Halo CE stands for Combat Evloved, the subtitle of hte first game, not winCE Mar 09 22:15:05 oilsworkn: ah thanks Mar 09 22:15:21 I guess now is the time to announce I have been secretly porting Crysis Mar 09 22:15:27 shhh Mar 09 22:15:27 and portal 2? Mar 09 22:15:32 don't give it away Mar 09 22:15:33 jacques: http://sourceforge.net/projects/dgles/ Mar 09 22:15:34 portal 3 Mar 09 22:15:47 or people will realize i've been working on getting WoW and Blizzard 3 ported. Mar 09 22:16:13 take a screenshot of the game, put a circle on it, and blur a picture you take of it Mar 09 22:16:18 then say you're sorry for crappy webcam Mar 09 22:16:20 starcraft 2 Mar 09 22:16:24 diablo III Mar 09 22:16:36 egaudet_work: interesting - last release was in 2006 tho :-\ Mar 09 22:16:43 egaudet_work: maybe palm is updating it ? Mar 09 22:17:19 Anyone here with experience with the Messaging Plugins? Mar 09 22:17:31 coding or just using? Mar 09 22:17:44 i have a load of them I just downloaded, but i'd simply like to install them all. He doesn't seem to tell exactly which ipk's i need to install for that Mar 09 22:17:54 jacques: maybe it's -perfect- Mar 09 22:17:54 :P Mar 09 22:17:57 and the messagingpatch ipk is conistently returning an error Mar 09 22:18:03 oh, install the sysfiles one first, then the patch one, reboot, then install the plugin ones Mar 09 22:18:09 or maybe it's not anything to do with what palm is referencing Mar 09 22:18:14 thanks! Mar 09 22:18:15 egaudet_work: the PDK release notes mention updates to DGLES for new functionality Mar 09 22:18:26 is that a luna reboot? Mar 09 22:18:30 or a hard reboot? Mar 09 22:18:54 i'd do hard, but its probably just luna Mar 09 22:20:02 "im telling the truth, this is real. why would i put so much time in this if it was fake? " trust me Mar 09 22:20:22 "last time when I was trolling I was just joking" Mar 09 22:20:30 lawlzzzz Mar 09 22:20:51 No seriously guys, I really just converted lead to gold! Mar 09 22:21:00 Come look at this gold watch I just stole for proof! Mar 09 22:21:05 i mean, halo uses directx Mar 09 22:21:05 " because of all this great feedback im starting my website where u will see all the games im porting " watch out for malware Mar 09 22:21:15 he ported that to the pre also? Mar 09 22:21:34 inb4 Windows 7 exported to WebOS next. Mar 09 22:21:47 xD Mar 09 22:21:52 * Mousey posts that Mar 09 22:22:13 http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2295347 Mar 09 22:22:28 "many many many many" Mar 09 22:22:38 do it right Mousey Mar 09 22:22:44 lets say we're porting Windows 7 now Mar 09 22:22:50 and in a few weeks, his port will be useless Mar 09 22:22:51 someone else has to say it! Mar 09 22:22:55 xD Mar 09 22:22:57 I will! Mar 09 22:22:57 xD Mar 09 22:23:00 YAY! Mar 09 22:23:08 when i get home im going to take a screenshot of halo2 pc put a circle analog thing on it, put it on my pre, and take a pic of it Mar 09 22:23:33 why am I still reading that idiotic thread? Mar 09 22:23:38 lol Mar 09 22:24:20 he put a lot of time into it Mar 09 22:24:23 its like a work of art Mar 09 22:25:12 anybody messed around w/ SDLVNC yet? Mar 09 22:25:41 JustinHoMi, i assume the developer has Mar 09 22:25:41 i love how all i had to do was post it and lol @ it, and now a bunch of people have posted Mar 09 22:25:42 haha Mar 09 22:25:44 hahahah Mar 09 22:25:58 zsoc: ya think? Mar 09 22:26:12 oilsworkn: you're so powerful! Mar 09 22:26:16 lol Mar 09 22:26:31 * oilsworkn abuses it more often Mar 09 22:26:33 yeah :-p i found it last night, then forgot about it... Mar 09 22:26:36 you reminded me Mar 09 22:27:08 anyone play with the pdk yet? Mar 09 22:27:15 seems .... Mar 09 22:27:17 light Mar 09 22:27:31 just trying to figure out how to scroll around the screen... i can only view the top-left corner Mar 09 22:27:35 PuffTheMagic_, I've been playing with the pdk for months Mar 09 22:27:38 PuffTheMagic_, OH i mean the widk ;) Mar 09 22:27:47 PuffTheMagic_: it's SDL and PDL packaged for Windows and Mac. Mar 09 22:27:48 JustinHoMi, did you check the wiki? Mar 09 22:27:58 lol Mar 09 22:28:13 so big let down :( Mar 09 22:28:19 PuffTheMagic_: installed windows to have a look see? Mar 09 22:28:21 zsoc: yes i did, but apparantly not well enough =) Mar 09 22:28:26 oilsworkn: i have a mac now Mar 09 22:28:29 ah Mar 09 22:28:36 * oilsworkn was about to mark calendar Mar 09 22:28:39 ok then, how do i double-click? ;) Mar 09 22:28:40 rwhitby: did you find how to unpack the .dmg yet? Mar 09 22:28:42 I think the biggest thing about the PDK is that it's a smaller download and easier install for people to get an ssh login on the Pre from Windows. Mar 09 22:29:48 JustinHoMi, try dragging with two fingers Mar 09 22:30:05 gotta get that 2 finger motion right Mar 09 22:30:14 hey, maybe one day the pdk will support linux - under known issues "Linux is not currently supported." Mar 09 22:30:19 comes in handy Mar 09 22:30:33 jacques: Cerealklr posted this earlier... haven't tested this myself http://baghira.sourceforge.net/dmg.htm Mar 09 22:31:38 jacques: linux has a few superior setups already Mar 09 22:32:11 jacques: well, you know why Palm didn't release the PDK for Linux? Cause they know our SB2 setup is superior ;-) Mar 09 22:32:24 So I guess the question is.. if Palm is supporting "PDK apps", and the pdl is just SDL headers and a toolchain... what stops linux developers from submitted apps made with the same basic technologies? Mar 09 22:32:25 well, it is Mar 09 22:32:38 rwhitby, it really is Mar 09 22:32:39 zsoc: nothing Mar 09 22:33:07 except nobody (normal) can submit anything with the pdk until "middle of the year" anyway Mar 09 22:33:21 the pdk was never "needed" Mar 09 22:33:32 aside from letting us know the official API's Mar 09 22:33:49 they need to get libpdl in the opensource repo Mar 09 22:34:13 what makes you think they will do that? Mar 09 22:34:15 they need to get 1.4.0 in the opensource repo Mar 09 22:34:28 egaudet_work: i never said i think they will Mar 09 22:34:35 useful page: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1990&Itemid=340 Mar 09 22:34:35 i am saying they need to Mar 09 22:35:05 oh you just hope they will Mar 09 22:35:13 they don't need to Mar 09 22:36:15 no they definately need to Mar 09 22:36:24 ? Mar 09 22:37:24 thats the only thing of value in the pdk to us that is not already on the opensource part Mar 09 22:38:09 WIDK can just unpack it from the Palm .dmg file Mar 09 22:38:16 yeah that is fun Mar 09 22:38:24 or they could just break out that lib Mar 09 22:38:37 they could, but why would they? Mar 09 22:38:57 what financial benefit does that obtain, to counter the engineering effort and support effort to do so? Mar 09 22:38:59 so they are just going to ignore linux developers now Mar 09 22:39:04 egaudet_work: "later im in the middle of working on the port." Mar 09 22:39:05 http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/CerealKlr/WindowsNTBootloader.png Mar 09 22:39:06 xD Mar 09 22:39:07 for a linux platform? Mar 09 22:39:23 why would they care about Linux developers? Mar 09 22:39:25 http://baghira.sourceforge.net/dmg.htm doesn't work Mar 09 22:39:56 PuffTheMagic_: why do they need to release source to libpdl? Mar 09 22:40:01 I don't understand Mar 09 22:40:08 egaudet_work: they don't, it's proprietary Mar 09 22:40:14 right Mar 09 22:40:26 well at least the headers and a built lib Mar 09 22:40:42 they've just done that, in the PDK. Mar 09 22:40:57 PuffTheMagic_: they use an option too to ignore undefined references Mar 09 22:41:00 except you need an extra OS Mar 09 22:41:02 so they don't even need a real lib Mar 09 22:41:38 OS is just a tool. In this case the tool they require you to use at the moment is Windows or MacOS Mar 09 22:41:41 w/e im not arguing about this Mar 09 22:41:46 PuffTheMagic_: linux is coming, just not in the first beta release Mar 09 22:42:04 puff <3s mac osx anyways Mar 09 22:42:09 egaudet_work: and im saying all they need to give us is 1 lib and 1 header Mar 09 22:42:16 instead of a whole pdk Mar 09 22:42:22 we have the lib... Mar 09 22:42:27 PuffTheMagic_: ah, but doing that is actually more work for a company Mar 09 22:42:53 diinnner, ttyl Mar 09 22:43:00 http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2295386&posted=1#post2295386 Mar 09 22:43:05 if a mod could edit that and fix my link? Mar 09 22:43:06 xD Mar 09 22:43:07 bai Mar 09 22:43:45 the pdk uses --allow-shlib-undefined Mar 09 22:44:59 is the video up from game developer conference? Mar 09 22:50:09 Mar 09 22:50:12 oops Mar 09 22:50:29 all is forgiven Mar 09 22:50:43 epv: did you get past your configure problem? Mar 09 22:51:24 no, sadly Mar 09 22:51:31 and people keep bothering me at work. can't they see i'm busy? Mar 09 22:51:48 epv: did you look at the config.log I mentioned? Mar 09 22:52:04 the error should be described in there Mar 09 22:52:05 now it's crapping out trying to build e_dbus, because some config somewhere doesn't know where to find libedbus-ver-pre-svn-05.so.0, even though it does get built Mar 09 22:52:29 hmm Mar 09 22:52:47 i don't even care if it builds e_dbus at all, but i can't figure out how to disable certain pacakges Mar 09 22:53:29 but yes, config.log is full of all sorts of other ugly errors, some of which may matter Mar 09 22:54:14 epv: go into the dir of the package you want to build and do "make stage" Mar 09 22:54:27 it should only build the deps for that package and the package itself Mar 09 22:54:39 ok. Mar 09 22:54:54 fwiw: http://xymoc.com/~eric/config.log Mar 09 22:55:23 i'm not sure why it needs to build all the packages anyway, though i guess it's a good test Mar 09 22:56:38 I see no fatal errors in that config.log Mar 09 22:57:50 epv: to disable a package, just move the directory over to nonworking Mar 09 22:58:18 no, but then it tries to link libenotify.so and can't because it can't find libedbus-ver-pre-svn-05.so, which isn't even mentioned in the config.log Mar 09 22:58:25 thanks, rwhitby Mar 09 22:58:34 hi all Mar 09 22:58:47 Hi JayCanuck, been playing with the PDK yet? Mar 09 22:58:52 You're a windows guy, right? Mar 09 22:58:58 lol Mar 09 22:59:11 I've installed it, haven't done much Mar 09 22:59:24 the Nova-Browser was pretty neat Mar 09 22:59:33 I was expecting a competing port of Halo from you. Mar 09 22:59:39 lol Mar 09 22:59:46 back Mar 09 22:59:51 since apparently it's so easy to do ... Mar 09 23:00:00 haha Mar 09 23:00:14 that thread keeps the lols going Mar 09 23:00:15 rwhitby, it's safe enough to say it's 100% impossible Mar 09 23:00:29 zsoc: I wouldn't say that personally. Mar 09 23:00:43 epv: hey glad you're giving it a go. yeah don't try to build the main tree, it can be picky. unless you *do* want everything. not sure when it broke, I stopped trying to build *everything* a while back :) Mar 09 23:01:04 rwhitby, by someone whose grammar skills are _that_ bad? Mar 09 23:01:29 his response to my directx question was "I will be more then happy to tell you in June after the release." Mar 09 23:01:41 yeah dtzWill, i was just trying to see where i'd get Mar 09 23:01:48 i should try your xorg-server tree, actually Mar 09 23:01:50 rwhitby: d3d issue alone makes it impossible Mar 09 23:01:55 epv: sure things. do you have a current error? or just trying to build the thigns? Mar 09 23:02:00 epv: well you need lots of deps Mar 09 23:02:02 JayCanuck: so with nova-browser and ssh connection, there's no need for WOSQI any more, right? Mar 09 23:02:08 lol Mar 09 23:02:11 lol Mar 09 23:02:15 fun! Mar 09 23:02:16 oh, http://xymoc.com/~eric/fail.txt, fail2.txt, config.log Mar 09 23:02:16 it doesn't install anything :p Mar 09 23:02:17 http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2295443&posted=1#post2295443 Mar 09 23:02:18 epv: only thing in the xorg-server tree is the server itself, everything else is in cross-compile and is built with minimal modification Mar 09 23:02:33 it should pull in the deps even though it's in the "non-working" tree, though, right? Mar 09 23:02:35 epv: oh i mean now that you're building via 'cd nonworking/xorg-server', 'make stage' instead Mar 09 23:02:37 it just does a browser like people have wanted but had to rely on ssh and winscop for Mar 09 23:02:41 epv: yes all deps should work Mar 09 23:02:47 JayCanuck: palm-install will install any advanced homebrew you need soon Mar 09 23:02:57 yea Mar 09 23:03:02 and? Mar 09 23:03:16 palm-install wouldn't be backwards compatible :p Mar 09 23:03:35 heh, there's like 7 services in the world that need to be updated :-) Mar 09 23:03:37 besides, avg user doesn't like commandline, lol Mar 09 23:03:53 so Mar 09 23:03:59 JayCanuck, don't worry, I still like wosqi ^_^ Mar 09 23:04:03 * oilsworkn assumes victort = mousey? Mar 09 23:04:11 yah Mar 09 23:04:12 yeah, I'll still use WOSQI too :-) Mar 09 23:04:14 oilsworkn, you should be able to tell just by the smilies alone Mar 09 23:04:15 with nova-browser connecting via ssh, I wonder if wosqi could do the same Mar 09 23:04:33 so your first name is victor? Mar 09 23:04:34 i'd sure love to know what usb networking thing doesn't work that keeps wOQI from working with my phone Mar 09 23:04:39 I already have a workable java ssh/sftp library Mar 09 23:04:46 oilsworkn: nah, Victor Tramp is an anagram for my real name Mar 09 23:04:55 JayCanuck: that's what I'm saying, wosqi could just depend on the PDK instead of the Doctor now Mar 09 23:04:56 ah Mar 09 23:04:59 Mousey, did you try the 'reinstall nova drivers' button in the file->options menu? :D Mar 09 23:05:09 zsoc: yup Mar 09 23:05:16 it has me dl a deb Mar 09 23:05:22 which i've already installed Mar 09 23:05:30 Mousey, oh, you're on ubuntu 9.10? Mar 09 23:05:31 lol, would make things simpler, eh Mar 09 23:05:37 zsoc: debian, but same diff Mar 09 23:05:38 oilsworkn: I'm wondering if the Halo guy is Opal Coba using another identity ... Mar 09 23:05:44 lol Mar 09 23:05:45 sockpuppets! Mar 09 23:05:47 HAHA, i hadn't thought of that Mar 09 23:05:50 Mousey, a version which uses upstart and not init? Mar 09 23:06:00 i was looking forward to that next release of Installer, too Mar 09 23:06:06 Mousey, you probably have to start it manually, /opt/Palm/novacom/novacomd or something similar Mar 09 23:06:10 i hear it was going to be faster then preware Mar 09 23:06:27 zsoc: ~# ps axf | grep novac Mar 09 23:06:27 26764 pts/5 S+ 0:00 | \_ grep novac Mar 09 23:06:27 14005 pts/10 Sl 1:24 | \_ /usr/local/bin/novacomd Mar 09 23:06:28 Opal Coba? Mar 09 23:06:30 it's most certainly running Mar 09 23:06:46 do what's the deal with the Halo puns? Mar 09 23:06:49 I remember seeing some halo-titled precentral thread, but other than that I'm clueless Mar 09 23:06:53 http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2293642 - WebOS Internals and Preware server outage starting now!!! Mar 09 23:06:58 was that before zsoc? Mar 09 23:07:06 haven't visited the forums much the last few days Mar 09 23:07:07 JayCanuck: http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/235329-halo-palm-pre-7.html Mar 09 23:07:16 Mousey, that would seem to be a non-standard install location... i've only seen /opt/Palm/novacom/novacomd Mar 09 23:07:19 well, thats the last page Mar 09 23:07:37 lemme go update Preware. Mar 09 23:07:38 :P Mar 09 23:08:12 zsoc: http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/210967-installer.html Mar 09 23:09:18 oilsworkn, ok.. so? some guy wants to fork? let him do it? or should i read through the whole thing.. Mar 09 23:09:32 Kyusaku: Preware updates will continue to work Mar 09 23:09:33 OH GOD PREWARE DOWNTIME! *end of world for 8 hours* Mar 09 23:09:35 he did, he released it Mar 09 23:09:36 :p Mar 09 23:09:52 the problem wasn't that he forked it Mar 09 23:09:56 it was that he said nothing of it to us Mar 09 23:10:05 and all he really did was change the default theme to palm-dark Mar 09 23:10:08 VincentLaw: read the thread, Preware will continue working (hopefully) throughout the outage Mar 09 23:10:14 and find/replace some strings Mar 09 23:10:26 kept claiming he was going to add things or what not, but never did Mar 09 23:10:36 rwhitby: let me rephrase: PREWARE.ORG downtime :p Mar 09 23:10:39 and his only update was when we updated preware, and he copy/pasted the changes Mar 09 23:10:44 oilsworkn, i see... and he released the changes i hope? :p **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Mar 09 23:10:55 2010 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Mar 10 21:48:18 2010 Mar 10 21:48:56 well, it's sort of a problem for ipkg w/r/t the nslu2-linux.org repository Mar 10 21:49:40 is there a way to reinstall all the patches that were installed before the last update? i ran the last update without removing them. they all appear to be installed but they're not working. is there a possible fix or is the only way to remove them all and reinstall? Mar 10 21:51:30 also, when i replace the pre, will i have to install them anyways or is this backed up somewhere and i wont have to do it all over again? Mar 10 21:53:52 rwhitby: heh, I expected more people to follow those twitter links :). maybe I overestimated the number of followers who click everything :D Mar 10 21:54:24 thanks for tweeting it though, btw :) sorry I crashed last night without saying anything Mar 10 22:16:45 is there a way to reinstall all the patches that were installed before the last update? i ran the last update without removing them. they all appear to be installed but they're not working. is there a possible fix or is the only way to remove them all and reinstall? Mar 10 22:16:59 update feeds Mar 10 22:17:00 update all Mar 10 22:17:04 preware Mar 10 22:18:56 egaudet: thx! i tried that but i get an error, in fact several. one of them: "FAILURE DURING 'GETLISTFILE'" operation. **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Mar 11 09:00:14 2010 Mar 11 09:09:39 git is back up Mar 11 09:09:42 autobuilder is back up Mar 11 09:21:31 feeds are updated Mar 11 09:22:45 yay Mar 11 09:27:23 sup folks? Mar 11 09:28:52 rwhitby, tried enabling the usbnet feature in meta-doctor... and now when i put it in usb mode, it doesn't auto-mount for some reason Mar 11 09:29:01 and actually got my wired connection to disconnect... is this normal? Mar 11 09:31:46 also... Mar 11 09:32:40 there needs to be a feature in Preware to be able to auto-install all the patches found in /media/internal/.webosinternals.patches.packages after a "Erase Apps & App Data", but not a full erase Mar 11 09:38:39 grndslm: I think there is maybe Mar 11 09:38:46 look in the emergency set of tools Mar 11 09:39:16 hmm... i was wondering what all those emergency tools did Mar 11 09:42:41 anyone been messing with the pdk? Mar 11 09:49:56 Does http://www.webos-internals.org/ resolve to the right place for anyone yet or does everyone still see the outage page? Mar 11 09:52:09 From Germayn I still get the outage page Mar 11 09:53:46 First try to load the page since about 20 hours. Mar 11 09:55:36 the DNS server responds with the other address but its still being cached Mar 11 09:59:05 rwhitby: page works now Mar 11 09:59:43 hucksy: now to make me really happy you're supposed to say that it's much faster than it was before the upgrade ... Mar 11 10:00:05 yep, much much faster Mar 11 10:01:31 you're not just saying that Mar 11 10:01:34 ? Mar 11 10:02:37 hehe ;) Mar 11 10:02:38 no Mar 11 10:02:39 you can't get much faster than instantaneous... i wanna see it under load, tho Mar 11 10:02:41 its really fast now Mar 11 10:03:10 i'm guessing the wiki and preware feeds are on separate servers? Mar 11 10:03:19 or were? Mar 11 10:07:13 we moved preware feeds to a separate server at another site before the upgrade Mar 11 10:07:31 we'll move it back to a different instance on this server in a couple days Mar 11 10:08:38 the autobuilder is on the other physical box at OSUOSL Mar 11 10:08:55 (we keep builders on a different machine from front-end instances) Mar 11 10:09:21 and the mysql databases backing the wikis are high-availability replicated on both machines Mar 11 11:20:24 * rwhitby bbt Mar 11 15:03:10 hi there Mar 11 15:27:18 Are there any solutions/ideas about the random luna restarts since the 1.4 update? Mar 11 15:28:02 @TheInvsbleMan nope. It is a problem with Palms software and has to be adressed in an official update. Mar 11 15:28:09 TheInvisibleMan: I've had a few restarts when trying to 'wake up' my pre since 1.4 ... I assume they'll fix it in 1.4.1. Notice the clever use of the word 'assume'. Mar 11 15:28:24 It's being worked on, I've been assured. Mar 11 15:28:56 Ok cool. I know they were looking for log files from people not using Preware Mar 11 15:29:07 As long as they are fixing it, I'm happy Mar 11 15:32:51 TheInvsbleMan: you can imagine it's pretty high priority :) Mar 11 15:33:30 Oh of course. It is quite a nuisance. Mar 11 15:34:16 I've always been baffled by the output of a Luna trace tho, so no idea what type of magic is going on in there. Mar 11 15:34:40 I see. It's Palm magic :) Mar 11 15:35:17 Oh... and since 1.4 I can't seem to get Terminal to work on my Pre Mar 11 15:35:41 I have tried reinstalling and everything, but whenever I open it my Pre freezes then luna restarts Mar 11 15:35:49 TheInvsbleMan: Terminal is not xompatible with 1.4 Mar 11 15:36:02 or compatible, for that matter Mar 11 15:36:21 I figured that was the issue. Any CLI apps that are? Mar 11 15:37:05 I installed Terminus... It seems to work, but when I type a command nothing happens. It just gives me a new line Mar 11 15:37:50 terminus is a work in progress, but it should function at least that much Mar 11 15:38:58 I see. It looks like a very nice app, but as I said when I type a command I just get a new prompt, it doesn't actually do anything, or at least isn't telling me it is doing anything Mar 11 15:41:54 i recommend installing openSSH + bash and using putty on your PC to do console work whenever possible Mar 11 15:42:05 it is much less error prone for me Mar 11 15:42:56 btw, I will try to help in the Terminal debugging efforts, just haven't reached destinal yet Mar 11 15:43:08 For console work on my Mac I just open Terminal and type novaterm :) that works just fine. I like to have an on-device console as well Mar 11 15:43:22 sure :) Mar 11 15:44:05 terminus has worked for me but I don't do too much with it, plus special character use is limited/non-existant like | Mar 11 15:44:23 it's an experimental project Mar 11 15:45:11 it was mainly to show how Enlightenment was possible on the pre Mar 11 15:45:37 using the SDL libraries Mar 11 15:46:17 Also, another issue; while loading the packages in Preware I have been getting the error "Failure during 'getListFile' operation" but it all seems to still work fine Mar 11 15:46:36 do you know which packages? Mar 11 15:46:45 it's a known issue Mar 11 15:47:00 took a screenshot and it was loading Webosinternals-armv7 Mar 11 15:47:15 I think the latest package manager service is suppose to deter that Mar 11 15:47:30 hmm I have the latest version Mar 11 15:47:47 you sure it wasn't whatever feed before that one? Mar 11 15:47:55 it may have been Mar 11 15:48:04 I'm just going based on the screenshot Mar 11 15:48:05 because if it can't load it, it skips it completely with that error Mar 11 15:48:13 basically Mar 11 15:48:17 oh then in that case.... Mar 11 15:48:23 it is one of the theme feeds Mar 11 15:48:28 I reported the issue Mar 11 15:48:33 because Preware is only showing 88 available themes Mar 11 15:48:38 one of the recent package manager services Mar 11 15:48:47 had a feature to fix a bug Mar 11 15:49:19 where there were these massive files being created accidentally, and Package Manager Service would wipe these on reboot Mar 11 15:49:48 however, it identifies the palm-catalog and prethemer feed as these massive files Mar 11 15:50:11 so it would wipe these databases from the device Mar 11 15:50:31 I think the alpha version in test feed fixes this Mar 11 15:50:34 and I'm sure you don't update every time you open Mar 11 15:50:48 Usually I do Mar 11 15:51:06 you have it set to update on every launch? Mar 11 15:51:08 I have it set to daily but I usually manually update every time I open Mar 11 15:51:18 yeah Mar 11 15:51:18 depends how long it has been since I used it Mar 11 15:51:23 but basically Mar 11 15:51:33 if you update within the same day Mar 11 15:51:42 and reboot the pre and relaunch prewqare Mar 11 15:51:53 you will most likely run into this error Mar 11 15:52:04 can I access the test feed via Preware? Mar 11 15:52:19 TIM: bit.ly/testing-feed Mar 11 15:54:08 o/ egaudet Mar 11 15:56:31 so I just do those commands and it will add the test feed to preware> Mar 11 15:58:28 technically it's 1 command Mar 11 15:58:37 kanzlr: good morning :) Mar 11 15:58:40 do any of you know how to clone/emulate those hasp dongles? Mar 11 15:59:12 Ah yes, I see that now Mar 11 16:00:07 PuffTheMagic: looks like that could be extremely difficult if said dongle has got keys embedded in silicon Mar 11 16:00:35 PuffTheMagic: probably easier to just modify the software you're using not to need them Mar 11 16:00:40 a quick google makes me seem like it possible to emulate Mar 11 16:01:41 PuffTheMagic: yeah, looks like you may be right (in which case they did a pretty poor implementation of a cryptosystem IMO) Mar 11 16:02:47 it should be theoretically possible to make a dongle where you can validate its public key but the private key is totally inaccessible without acid and scanning electron microscopes, etc Mar 11 16:02:55 but it looks like they didn't do that Mar 11 16:03:08 destinal: hi Mar 11 16:34:21 ciao everybody Mar 11 17:22:24 cool. I can see the wiki again. Mar 11 17:23:10 wiki wiki wiki Mar 11 17:23:19 wiki wiki wak Mar 11 17:25:30 twiki? http://www.slipperybrick.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/rotwiki.jpg Mar 11 17:30:00 unreal engine 3 on webOS :) Mar 11 17:30:21 only a matter of time Mar 11 17:30:35 http://blog.palm.com/palm/2010/03/palm-webos-games-get-unreal-.html Mar 11 17:32:17 is it the halo guy? Mar 11 17:33:12 no that's legit. unreal engine for webos, they said it months ago in a more vague format Mar 11 17:35:30 the article says the engine is available free at http://www.udk.com/ - what's there? I'm blocked by work firewall "games not allowed" Mar 11 17:35:43 is the webos engine there? Mar 11 17:36:40 zsoc_wirc: wait. are you implying the halo guy is not legit? Mar 11 17:37:33 jacques: I don't have time for ambiguous sarcasm at the moment Mar 11 17:38:04 jacques: unreal development kit Mar 11 17:38:04 The world’s best game engine ... Mar 11 17:38:05 Now at your fingertips. Mar 11 17:38:05 Experience the power and potential of Unreal Engine 3. Create amazing games, lifelike scenes and fantastic worlds... Mar 11 17:39:44 what languages are necessay for UDK devel? opengl knowledge and GLSL I assume at least... Mar 11 17:41:59 oh nevermind. looks like you just need to learn UnrealScript and that's it. Mar 11 17:44:42 so where is the actual udk 'support'? udk.com doesn't say anything about it Mar 11 17:44:54 unless the necessary wrappers and libs are in the pdk Mar 11 17:53:07 zsoc_wirc: maybe they expect you to build it with the PDK Mar 11 17:53:37 use the engine from udk with your game built via the PDK Mar 11 17:57:53 and "demoed" != "zsoc can play with it now" Mar 11 18:00:25 whats the easiest way to connect to my shell account on my server host using my pre? Mar 11 18:00:39 CorpX: ajaxterm? Mar 11 18:01:33 i dont have root access Mar 11 18:01:38 so i dont think i could install it Mar 11 18:01:56 and no python there either Mar 11 18:04:06 any other alternatives? Mar 11 18:07:14 can't you just install an ssh client on the pre and use terminus to connect? Mar 11 18:12:44 egaudet: 'the pdk' is just a toolchain and headers. Mar 11 18:13:09 egaudet: so somewhere the engine would need to be supported. either special wrappers, or a special gl es engine Mar 11 18:13:41 is there an ssh client? Mar 11 18:15:28 nm i see open ssh Mar 11 18:15:53 it _would_ be nice to have more details on the unreal engine port Mar 11 18:40:25 JayCanuck: mornin Mar 11 18:40:38 morning zsoc :) Mar 11 18:41:05 hey, its mid-day now Mar 11 18:42:06 oilsworkn: ugt... Mar 11 18:42:52 ah Mar 11 18:44:40 what's concensus on ubuntu server 9.10 64-bit for WIDK ? Mar 11 18:46:04 jacques: use 32bit for less complications? Mar 11 18:47:39 zsoc_wirc: I want to do a native install on my laptop. I would prefer to have 64-bit because I have 4GiB RAM Mar 11 18:47:51 jacques: try it and report back :D Mar 11 18:48:02 dtzWill: yeah that's my leaning Mar 11 18:48:09 jacques: I believe there are minimal complications Mar 11 18:48:50 of course, my laptop doesn't have a CD/DVD drive ... so I need a USB install method or network (prefer install from USB flash stick) Mar 11 18:49:18 zsoc_wirc: OK I am going to try 64-bit and update the wiki Mar 11 18:49:23 it installs much faster from usb than a cd as well Mar 11 18:50:08 halfhalo_T400: how do I do it? is it as simple as dd .iso to flash device (like recent fedora live) ? Mar 11 18:50:15 no Mar 11 18:50:23 I think there are now two ways Mar 11 18:50:26 the manual way Mar 11 18:50:32 and the microsoft provided tool way Mar 11 18:50:33 to install what from usb? Mar 11 18:50:43 zsoc_wirc: ubuntu server Mar 11 18:50:57 jacques: use ubootin Mar 11 18:51:05 halfhalo_T400: I have no microsoft Mar 11 18:51:18 they came out with a tool to automate the process Mar 11 18:51:42 I still don't get why they don't just release a damned usb image lol Mar 11 18:51:50 https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick Mar 11 18:51:51 yeah I was hoping for that Mar 11 18:52:10 halfhalo_T400: thanks - reading Mar 11 18:52:25 really how hard would it take to run that ubootin tool and post the image? lol Mar 11 18:52:51 omg new bad kitty update Mar 11 18:52:53 jacques: ubootin is just convenient. even downloads the selected distro Mar 11 18:52:55 * halfhalo_T400 is happy Mar 11 18:53:18 lolcat viewing app? Mar 11 18:53:30 twitter app Mar 11 18:53:44 * oilsworkn was joking Mar 11 18:53:49 lies Mar 11 18:54:08 oilsworkn: halfhalo just realized you can use 'preddit' to browse the /r/nsfw subreddit Mar 11 18:54:33 lol Mar 11 18:54:42 nt4cats: /r/gonewild is generally more entertaining Mar 11 18:55:09 oh, a wircer Mar 11 18:55:14 heh Mar 11 18:55:18 what a crap program Mar 11 18:55:22 * nt4cats makes a note to do a scientific comparison based upon zsoc's assertion Mar 11 18:55:30 :p Mar 11 18:55:36 The app works fine for me Mar 11 18:55:44 zsoc_wirc: is it unetbootin ? Mar 11 18:55:50 twas a joke Mar 11 18:55:55 Ahh gotcha haha Mar 11 18:56:20 jacques: oh.. uh. yes. sorry I was typing/thinking ahead of myself :p Mar 11 18:56:53 np. I'm going to try the ubuntu method first Mar 11 18:57:11 wait, what? Mar 11 18:57:18 my phone is on wirc Mar 11 18:57:30 Is discussion about Mobile Hotspot on Sprint forbidden here? Mar 11 18:58:10 TheInvsbleManpre: not forbidden, we just don't know a lot about it Mar 11 18:59:09 the PreCentral forums will be happy to blather on and on and on about it at length for you :) Mar 11 18:59:16 Gotcha. Umm since 1.4 when I open the app is says the mobile hotspot service is not running. Anyone have any idea how to fix this? Mar 11 18:59:20 what do you need mobile hotspot for? you've already got a browser and irc on your pre Mar 11 18:59:26 GAH Mar 11 18:59:28 what else is the internet for? Mar 11 18:59:32 Why is this not working Mar 11 18:59:33 haha Mar 11 18:59:55 and don't say torrenting or gaming, cause you're not going to be doing that over your phones internet Mar 11 19:00:03 for long Mar 11 19:00:07 Lol oh I know. Mar 11 19:00:27 I just use it when I need wifi and there aren't any hotspots around Mar 11 19:00:28 oilsworkn: There is this song from the Broadway musical "Avenue Q" about what the Internet is for ... Mar 11 19:00:45 broadway musical analogy? Mar 11 19:00:48 oilsworkn: in emergency I can confirm you can torrent a linux image over evdo pretty well :) Mar 11 19:00:53 i haven't seen one of those before Mar 11 19:00:57 good musical Mar 11 19:01:10 oilsworkn: it isn't an analogy. One of the songs is called "The Internet is for porn" Mar 11 19:01:17 ah Mar 11 19:01:22 Oh I know for a fact you can torrent over 3g. It's just abusing the app Mar 11 19:01:30 well you CAN Mar 11 19:01:37 but you're not going to it will be so garbage Mar 11 19:01:51 I know. I'm just wondering how to fix this Mar 11 19:01:54 and once there is flash on the pre, you can get your porn needs there Mar 11 19:01:58 hmm, I may end up using unetbootin - ubuntu page talks about usb-creator (must be an ubuntu thing) or unetbootin Mar 11 19:02:23 (sung by puppets, with the clearly-supposed-to-be-cookie-monster character adding porn content) Mar 11 19:02:30 no usb-creator (that I can see) for fedora - they _do_ have liveusb-creator which may or may not be same thing Mar 11 19:02:40 sounds like a pretty crazy musical Mar 11 19:02:49 I like puppets Mar 11 19:02:56 lies Mar 11 19:03:33 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-TA57L0kuc Mar 11 19:03:33 or were you going to say "with A1 steak sauce"? Mar 11 19:03:42 no sound at work Mar 11 19:03:50 maybe ill remember to scroll back and click it when i get home Mar 11 19:03:51 lol Mar 11 19:04:00 oilsworkn: you can watch that on your pre with headphones .... Mar 11 19:04:02 jacques: recently picked up a flash drive with stupid U3 software that can emulate a CDROM on the flash drive, and use a command line tool to replace the CD image to a bootable image Mar 11 19:04:10 no headphones Mar 11 19:04:16 * jacques does "sudo yum install unetbootin" Mar 11 19:04:40 * oilsworkn picked up one of those u3 flash drives one time Mar 11 19:04:43 first thing i did was delete it Mar 11 19:04:44 lol Mar 11 19:04:47 me too Mar 11 19:05:02 stupid wd USB drives come with that in firmware Mar 11 19:05:15 oilsworkn: yah but I found out about this http://u3-tool.sourceforge.net/ Mar 11 19:05:18 I did firmware update to "delete" it but it still didn't free the 1GB space Mar 11 19:05:49 and the firmware update removed the ability to do smartctl -d sat Mar 11 19:05:55 (*^*&%$&$()) Mar 11 19:06:41 * jacques bookmarks http://u3-tool.sourceforge.net/ Mar 11 19:07:44 oilsworkn: buy non u3 flashdrives. Mar 11 19:07:56 jacques: the only thing is flashing the disc image is a little slow, but so handy, I did like a bunch of recoveries and OS installs Mar 11 19:08:41 * jacques tries to use unetbootin without reading the instructions Mar 11 19:08:43 i said i picked it up, not that i purchased it Mar 11 19:08:45 Linux OSes, Snow Leopard, Windows, my netbook recovery disc Mar 11 19:08:54 there was a bunch of them at work Mar 11 19:09:30 oh wirc failed Mar 11 19:10:05 more like coverage fail Mar 11 19:10:33 well it looked like he was on wifi Mar 11 19:10:39 "~wIRCer@public-66-66.emich.edu" Mar 11 19:10:43 doesn't look very sprint Mar 11 19:11:09 oh he was talking about no hotspots Mar 11 19:11:18 ah Mar 11 19:11:23 so I thought he was on cell network Mar 11 19:15:25 jacques: This is the page that got me interested in the U3 reflashing. http://randommusingsofarealgeek.blogspot.com/2009/12/i-used-to-hate-u3.html Mar 11 19:16:00 Kyusaku: thanks Mar 11 19:16:02 he also has another post that is a breakdown of the process to reflash the U3 CD image Mar 11 19:16:56 basically a tutorial in linux Mar 11 19:18:03 after I read his posts I went to nearest Wal-mart and snagged a 8GB flash drive for under $20 Mar 11 19:18:57 that's nice. "Boot error" Mar 11 19:19:14 heh Mar 11 19:19:34 hi guys...can anyone provide some help with these errors i get when downloading apps? feel free to pm or continue in here Mar 11 19:19:36 with unetbootin? Mar 11 19:19:41 * oilsworkn is tempted to make a really good completely fake video of my playing halo on my pre Mar 11 19:19:51 just to post it in that guys thread Mar 11 19:19:55 yes, with unetbootin Mar 11 19:19:57 and be all "thanks for the alpha, its a bunch f fun" Mar 11 19:20:08 well, that was fun. Mar 11 19:20:20 unetbootin is indeed a headache Mar 11 19:21:15 oilsworkin: do it Mar 11 19:21:20 can i look up error codes somewhere? Mar 11 19:21:41 I have never had an issue with unetbootin. I've used it 50+ times Mar 11 19:21:44 and put the analog stick thing in the video Mar 11 19:21:48 I know I can boot from this flash drive - have done it many times Mar 11 19:22:40 is there a preware technician who can help me with an error i am receiving when i try to install a program Mar 11 19:22:41 ? Mar 11 19:22:55 it's not like I could have messed up - choose iso, choose device - not much more to it Mar 11 19:22:59 ~asktoask Mar 11 19:23:00 This is IRC. Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question and if someone's around, they'll be glad to help. Mar 11 19:23:07 k Mar 11 19:23:30 * jacques does "sudo yum erase unetbootin" Mar 11 19:23:39 i am trying to install my first patch to the phone and each time i try, an error message comes up saying "see IPKG log" Mar 11 19:23:53 a patch is not a program Mar 11 19:24:00 did you see the ipkg log? Mar 11 19:24:06 yeah Mar 11 19:24:16 i get a error with a return value 22 and says failed to download the .ipk Mar 11 19:24:23 telling us it told you to see the log means nothing Mar 11 19:24:26 the actual error is in the log Mar 11 19:24:26 i have the same issue as him Mar 11 19:24:39 failure to download ipk Mar 11 19:24:40 you have internet? Mar 11 19:24:48 how do you know it same error? Mar 11 19:24:50 it says "failed" then "ErrorGenericMethodException:failure during "install" operation Mar 11 19:25:01 there are many different IPKG Log errors Mar 11 19:25:02 yeah i have internet Mar 11 19:25:15 mine is return value :4 Mar 11 19:25:20 thawk: what does the maroon/red test say? Mar 11 19:25:40 the maroon red text? Mar 11 19:25:48 I'm going to build unetbootin from source Mar 11 19:25:59 I have been burned so many times using binary packages (esp in fedora) Mar 11 19:26:15 collected errors: Failed ErrorGenericMethodException: Failure during 'install' operation Mar 11 19:26:21 thawk: when you scroll through an IPKG log there are lines in multiple colors Mar 11 19:26:28 green, black, red Mar 11 19:26:28 red says: command failed with return value 1: 'wget --passive-ftp -q -P....etc. Mar 11 19:26:59 wget: bad address Mar 11 19:27:01 see Not2Day1024 knows what I'm talking about Mar 11 19:27:18 Not2Day1024: What are you trying to install? Mar 11 19:27:18 mine says "an error occurred, return value: 4. cannot find package org.webosinternals.lsdiff. check the spelling or perhaps run 'ipkg update' Mar 11 19:27:32 virtual keyboard Mar 11 19:28:03 but also happens with lots of others Mar 11 19:28:08 such as wircd and wirc Mar 11 19:28:18 Not2Day1024: are you on wifi or good coverage area? Mar 11 19:28:27 almost full bars Mar 11 19:28:32 i'm using my home wifi Mar 11 19:28:35 good signal Mar 11 19:28:52 Not2Day1024: :can you try over EVDO? Mar 11 19:28:57 ? Mar 11 19:28:59 what is that? Mar 11 19:29:03 OK I already have unetbootin - it's a tarball which doesn't make a directory Mar 11 19:29:05 thawk: your issue is different Mar 11 19:29:08 hold on Mar 11 19:29:12 sorry Mar 11 19:29:31 do you mean via preware on my phone? Mar 11 19:29:46 i've had that fail too, i'll try again Mar 11 19:30:06 Not2Day1024: yeah I've heard of issues in the past where wifi either screwed up or corrupted a download Mar 11 19:30:26 wait...that's what i just did...i have tried via wosqi too with no success Mar 11 19:30:27 I am also going to try installing Mar 11 19:30:50 i dont even see virtual keyboard on the repository actually Mar 11 19:31:07 can i just download the .ipk and put it on that way? Mar 11 19:31:21 probably Mar 11 19:31:56 okay so apparently I missed it this morning, ut3 engine really works on the pre?!!?! Mar 11 19:32:16 dtzWill: apparently Mar 11 19:32:31 haha that's excellent, I thought the ut3 talk was from the january guesses that the "other platform" was webos, not that it was confirm/reported by palm officially \o/ Mar 11 19:32:57 any idea on my installation problem? Mar 11 19:33:07 I can confirm, this happens here on NoDoze Mar 11 19:33:33 virtual keyboard installed for me Mar 11 19:33:42 hmm, so where could i find the .ipk for virtual keyboard? wiki says it's only available via preware Mar 11 19:33:42 dtzWill: they said months ago they would release for another smart phone platform. webos was really the only good option Mar 11 19:33:44 dtzWill: lol yes what you said Mar 11 19:33:53 i just tried virtual keyboard i got the same error code Mar 11 19:33:54 doing luna restart now to confirm Mar 11 19:34:05 what other platforms is it on? iphone? Mar 11 19:34:21 jacques: liveusb creator didn't work? Mar 11 19:35:29 Not2Day1024: the patch feed can be accessible via http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-patches/1.4.0/ Mar 11 19:35:55 how will the patch feed help? Mar 11 19:36:16 thawk: I directed that to Not2Day1024, not you Mar 11 19:36:22 because he asked for it Mar 11 19:36:46 can you not see I pretexted the entry with his name and a colon? Mar 11 19:37:32 dude, i am brand new to this. i am having issues with installing stuff and its frustrating. i'm here seeking help because i am not sure how to fix the problem. i appreciate whatever you can do to help Mar 11 19:37:49 thawk: did you update feeds? Mar 11 19:38:11 i ran two package updates upon installing preware to my phone Mar 11 19:38:44 egaudet_work: I didn't try it - I thought the fedora one only understood fedora - and the ubuntu instructions talk about a ubuntu app called usb-creator Mar 11 19:38:46 I'm getting ipkg errors as well. malformed wget urls actually Mar 11 19:38:48 underscores where they don't belong Mar 11 19:38:50 where do i find the feed to update them? Mar 11 19:38:54 thawk: I get that but there was also another person that needed help at the same time and so to prevent confusion we often start a message with that person's name to direct the messae Mar 11 19:39:03 trying with unetbootin 408 built from source now Mar 11 19:39:05 i gotcha Mar 11 19:39:05 ubuntu references the fedora one Mar 11 19:39:22 egaudet_work: then the page much be so old that the name has changed Mar 11 19:39:26 thawk: the dropdown menu on the top left Mar 11 19:39:29 https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick Mar 11 19:39:40 i am updating it now Mar 11 19:39:42 thawk: it's possible the issue is not you, give us a little while to figure it out Mar 11 19:39:43 because now fedora only has liveusb-creator Mar 11 19:40:00 egaudet, i recognize your name from a lot of apps, nice work Mar 11 19:40:03 of course you could always just use syslinux and do it all manually :P Mar 11 19:40:26 k...i'm updating the feeds as we speak Mar 11 19:40:39 egaudet_work: yeah we'll see where I am in a few minutes Mar 11 19:40:48 thawk: feed update should fix it Mar 11 19:41:18 one thing that seems wrong is unetbootin trashes the partition table on my usb stick Mar 11 19:41:20 Not2Day1024: I dabble here and there, not a lot of app work though Mar 11 19:41:43 what do you mean by "trashes" Mar 11 19:42:06 fdisk complains "this doesn't look like a partition table" Mar 11 19:42:19 same problem Mar 11 19:42:23 unetbootin == crap Mar 11 19:42:27 lol Mar 11 19:42:35 worked fine for me 2 years ago Mar 11 19:42:48 i am installing virtual keyboard...it is downloading and installing right now. thanks~ Mar 11 19:42:50 ! Mar 11 19:42:51 jacques: I've never used it on fedora Mar 11 19:42:59 but I've never had it fail either Mar 11 19:43:52 egaudet_work: this is what I was talking about, error handlingwise btw. if preware just said try 'App Menu -> Update Feeds' we'd have less support issues Mar 11 19:43:54 how long does a download install take? Mar 11 19:44:01 for reference sake Mar 11 19:44:23 thawk: different for every package Mar 11 19:44:35 for vkb it takes a bit Mar 11 19:44:39 maybe a minute Mar 11 19:44:53 yeah it takes a bit Mar 11 19:45:23 and with the patches, i can install multiple packages for the phone? Mar 11 19:45:35 it's massive compared to other patches Mar 11 19:45:45 i see Mar 11 19:45:55 what do you mean multiple packages? Mar 11 19:46:20 do you want to use more than 1 patch on the phone app? Mar 11 19:47:05 sorry, i meant patches Mar 11 19:47:06 that should be fine, most patches work with one another unless stated in the description Mar 11 19:47:44 fyi: patches are the devil Mar 11 19:47:45 virtual keyboard works! fantastic Mar 11 19:50:26 oil has an enlarged medulla oblongata Mar 11 19:50:55 oil is nothing but a very large medulla oblongata -- it has taken over and consumed the rest of his physical form. Mar 11 19:51:15 oh Mar 11 19:51:31 that doesn't sound like good times Mar 11 19:52:05 * nt4cats enjoyes taking strange statements made by others and continuing them in an even stranger direction Mar 11 19:52:13 err enjoys Mar 11 19:53:29 Anyone know what was Jason R.'s big issue with future WebOS development? Mar 11 19:56:57 device manager says virtual keyboard is installed, but it does not work, and wirc still wouldnt install with the .ipk and i have this error code: http://imgur.com/MXDKy.jpg Mar 11 19:57:30 which is the same error code i got when i tried to install virtual keyboard via preware Mar 11 19:58:06 at first i thought it was because the servers were down but now they're back up and it still gets it Mar 11 19:58:10 did you luna restart for the VKB? Mar 11 19:58:14 yes Mar 11 19:58:29 how did you install VKB? Mar 11 19:58:33 update feeds in preware Mar 11 19:58:36 and you know how to activate it right? Mar 11 19:58:37 to resolve that error Mar 11 19:58:55 i double tapped the gesture area and tried pressing with two fingers Mar 11 19:59:38 i got the .ipk from the link Kyusaku gave me Mar 11 20:00:09 downloaded 1.4.0-1 Mar 11 20:00:39 I guess WebOSQI doesn't work all that well with patches Mar 11 20:00:57 i have preware to update feeds on open anyways, but i'll try again Mar 11 20:01:49 OK I got unetbootin to boot - apparently I needed to select /dev/sdb1 instead of /dev/sdb - even though /dev/sdb was what the installer defaulted to Mar 11 20:02:13 so far I have found this nowhere in the docs - and it's totally implementation dependent Mar 11 20:02:33 for example, some tools require you to delect the main device - not a partition Mar 11 20:02:42 s/d/s/ Mar 11 20:02:43 jacques meant: for example, some tools require you to select the main device - not a partition Mar 11 20:03:53 iirc liveusb-creator wants the main device Mar 11 20:07:08 so it booted but I still can't install because it complains about not being able to find the cdrom drive Mar 11 20:07:57 oh no, people with hulu dreams are getting crushed cause some guy tweeted he tried accessing hulu from flash enabled pre at GDC and it didn't work Mar 11 20:08:29 cry moar. Mar 11 20:11:08 hi Mar 11 20:13:07 of course, other ppl with same problem as me get no response on the unetbootin forum Mar 11 20:13:19 you are creating live fedora cd? Mar 11 20:13:24 err usb Mar 11 20:13:35 I wonder when the next autobuild on git.webos-internals.org is performed... Mar 11 20:13:54 every 15 minutes it starts Mar 11 20:14:07 so next one will start in like 4 minutes Mar 11 20:14:41 hm Mar 11 20:14:50 why isn't Duke3D not rebuild? Mar 11 20:15:06 MetaView: check the log, prolly errored Mar 11 20:15:42 log.. ok, where? Mar 11 20:16:27 actually I just check it. seems to be built already Mar 11 20:16:33 log url is in the topic Mar 11 20:16:46 what about splitting the patches in different files: assistant + english and other languages Mar 11 20:17:07 ghost_of_zsoc: right, thx Mar 11 20:18:30 egaudet_work: I just want to unstall ubuntu server on a machine with no cd/dvd drive Mar 11 20:19:58 ghost_of_zsoc: can't find Duke3D, means nothing to do or excluded? Mar 11 20:21:42 nothing to do. which means it thinks it's packaged already Mar 11 20:24:52 sigh. Mar 11 20:24:54 ghost_of_zsoc: thx, then I will try further. Good to know it comes every 15 minutes Mar 11 20:25:08 jacques: unetbootin Mar 11 20:25:10 trying to let unetbootin download things now, but I don't know how to configure it for proxy Mar 11 20:25:24 or save the trouble and go to manual steps Mar 11 20:25:56 https://help.ubuntu.com/community/USB%20Installation%20Media Mar 11 20:28:02 I think I have to select ubuntu 9.10 64-bit hd_media option, /dev/sdb1, and then copy the .iso to the USB stick when unetbootin is done Mar 11 20:28:50 but so far not finding anything on using unetbootin through a web proxy Mar 11 20:29:31 egaudet_work: the problem with liveusb_creator is it only works for live images Mar 11 20:29:43 ubuntu server is not a live image Mar 11 20:32:38 morning Mar 11 20:33:11 MetaView: is duke3d in released or unreleased? Mar 11 20:33:39 grep -ir proxy . in unetbootin dir finds nothing Mar 11 20:34:06 jacques: would this apply to your case? Mar 11 20:34:09 Create a fake CD-ROM drive and mount the flash drive to /cdrom during the Ubuntu installation process. Mar 11 20:34:23 they say to do that for alternate installer Mar 11 20:35:30 egaudet_work: I think I am past that now - I need to copy the iso to the USB stick after unetbootin has created it Mar 11 20:35:44 but in order to use that method, I need to let unetbooting download things Mar 11 20:36:04 and it apprently LIKE SO MANY FSCKING THINGS does not support proxy Mar 11 20:36:10 jacques: well I mean if the server installation is like alternate installer and it complains about cdrom drive Mar 11 20:36:21 it's something you have to do DURING installation Mar 11 20:36:37 I thought I read you had it booting but it complained about no cdrom drive Mar 11 20:36:45 egaudet_work: it did Mar 11 20:37:07 at what point in time? during installation? Mar 11 20:37:12 how does one create a fake cdrom drive Mar 11 20:37:33 https://help.ubuntu.com/community/USB%20Installation%20Media Mar 11 20:37:50 go to the section titled "Mounting the USB stick as /cdrom" Mar 11 20:38:56 egaudet_work: before I was selecting the .iso manually in unetbootin. that finally booted but complained about no cdrom drive - then I selected ubuntu in the unetbootin menu and it implied is I am not wanting to use a live image, I need to let it create the stick and then manually copy the iso to the root of the stick Mar 11 20:39:42 jacques: follow the instructions using syslinux to manually make it bootable from that link then maybe Mar 11 20:39:52 jacques: in all honestly, I've only ever used it with live images Mar 11 20:40:34 egaudet_work: this looks better - right below what you pointed to: Alternate Install (Ubuntu 9.10) Mar 11 20:41:05 ghost_of_zsoc: yeah lots of things work with live images - livecd-creator, on latest fedora, just dd the live image to a usb drive, etc. Mar 11 20:41:26 it's the non-live images which are a serious pain Mar 11 20:41:28 jacques: yes it does, i didn't even get down that far :P Mar 11 20:42:20 egaudet_work: the "Download harddisk kernel to replace CD-ROM kernel" looks like what unetbootin is trying to do (but failing due to proxy) Mar 11 20:42:51 I was really trying to get away from doing everything manually Mar 11 20:42:56 I could have done a net install 10 times by now Mar 11 20:46:29 blame me Mar 11 20:52:11 not at all Mar 11 20:53:35 was trying to download manually, but even though unetbootin shows the link it's trying to download, and has a "copy URL" selection, it does not work, and I can't drag select the text either Mar 11 20:53:49 I could try manually re-typing everything, but that's just getting silly Mar 11 20:54:28 probably some mismatch between QT (unetbootin) and gnome (fedora) Mar 11 20:54:29 I wonder if that's a gtk bug Mar 11 20:54:39 ah Qt Mar 11 20:55:36 apparenly unetbootin has no command line args Mar 11 21:02:20 OK it's too broken to live Mar 11 21:02:39 I tried manually downloading, thinking it would tell me the files it needs one by one Mar 11 21:03:04 but even though I select "no" to not overwrite the one file I have manually downloaded, it still tries to download it again Mar 11 21:07:29 lol Mar 11 21:08:29 hey can you access the bluetooth module with the pdk Mar 11 21:08:29 ? Mar 11 21:12:59 atlanta: I haven't seen anything in the pdk about bluetooth Mar 11 21:13:46 :-( i thought u could get access to the device through irq calls or something Mar 11 21:13:47 lol Mar 11 21:13:55 ioctl ? Mar 11 21:13:56 am I still connected? Mar 11 21:14:12 yep Mar 11 21:14:13 yea i don't know C but whatever it is that allows u to access devices Mar 11 21:14:16 kk Mar 11 21:17:41 OK I'm past the cdrom problem, onto the next Mar 11 21:17:57 it's searching for the installer iso, but cannot find it - even though it's in the root of the usb drive Mar 11 21:18:09 and it won't give the option to manually specifiy it Mar 11 21:18:45 and of course it doesn't tell me what names it's looking for Mar 11 21:18:51 in case I need to rename the iso Mar 11 21:19:30 looking at logs, I see it found the iso but failed to mount it - error did not tell me this - only that it could not find an iso Mar 11 21:22:26 hey guys - looks like I lost my need for speed saved game when my pre froze up... does it dump the data anywhere that I can retrieve it? Mar 11 21:23:30 it cannot mount the iso because there is no loop driver ?? Mar 11 21:23:34 BAbnkr: in the app directory there are two files Mar 11 21:23:38 dmesg shows none and there is no module Mar 11 21:24:00 rwhitby: you are awake? Mar 11 21:24:06 yes Mar 11 21:24:16 should be in the middle of night? Mar 11 21:24:16 either that, or I'm sleep-typing Mar 11 21:24:16 there _is_ crpytoloop. but I don't think that will help Mar 11 21:24:26 MetaView: 7:54am Mar 11 21:24:35 middle of the night for some :-) Mar 11 21:24:38 oh, good morning :) Mar 11 21:24:46 ... but not those with kids .... Mar 11 21:25:02 right, 6 minutes left to school start Mar 11 21:25:05 okay finaly logged onto the IRC...lol Mar 11 21:25:11 hi number1pete Mar 11 21:25:23 number1pete: what's the service that you're developing? Mar 11 21:25:28 man...so glad to be able to speak to somwone who knows something Mar 11 21:26:13 the service calls a script that changes a few parameters to acheive ondemand cpu scaling from 500mhz--->600mhz Mar 11 21:26:17 everything works fine Mar 11 21:26:26 im having trouble with packaging the service Mar 11 21:26:42 to work with WOSQI's...postinst and prerm Mar 11 21:27:13 the service is used by the mojo app i wrote that basically toggle on and off cpu scaling Mar 11 21:28:02 do you know why WOSQI is not picking up the postinst script that i put in the root directory of the ipkg Mar 11 21:28:04 control scripts are not wosqi specific, it's a standard. Mar 11 21:28:16 also, they don't go in the root directory Mar 11 21:28:36 number1pete: a standard that webos-internals created, not Jason. Mar 11 21:28:45 i meant control directory Mar 11 21:29:17 rwhitby: I guess you're right about NBJ.... Mar 11 21:30:55 so yeah if you saw the thread on precentral i basically tar'd the etc and usr folders together into a data.tar.gz and control postinst prerm into control.tar.gz and ar'd that into the .ipk Mar 11 21:31:52 the problem is that when i try WOSQI to install it .... it install fine into the media/cryptofs/apps but it never runs the postinst script Mar 11 21:32:27 number1pete: do the control scripts get installed? Mar 11 21:32:49 not sure Mar 11 21:33:07 number1pete: the ipkg scripts in http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=tree;f=toolchain/ipkg-utils are what we use to package things on the webos-internals autobuilder. Mar 11 21:33:12 where would that be..../media/cryptofs/apps? Mar 11 21:34:37 number1pete: is the service going to be open source / Mar 11 21:34:39 ? Mar 11 21:35:00 yeah...its all public source Mar 11 21:35:11 nothing special about anything i did Mar 11 21:36:15 so how would i check if the control files where install? i did notice that in WOSQI that under device managment it give the information from the control file for the service app Mar 11 21:36:32 number1pete: do you have the service source somewhere that we can review it for security? Mar 11 21:37:35 um....not right now....was planing on hosting it once i finished it....very messy if you looked at it right now....i have absolutely no problem with anyone reviewing it once im dont Mar 11 21:38:27 im just trying to learn how to package this thing....then i will clean everything up (service and the mojo app) then submit for review...then launch in forums Mar 11 21:38:52 * oilsworkn missed first part Mar 11 21:38:55 whats the app? Mar 11 21:39:23 working on cpu scaling app that requires a service.....can package the service properly...looking for help Mar 11 21:39:33 cant* Mar 11 21:39:45 ah Mar 11 21:39:54 number1pete: did you take a look at the scripts I pointed to? Mar 11 21:40:13 briefly....looks like a lot of code Mar 11 21:40:21 the ubuntu install rootfs is the most useless I have ever seen Mar 11 21:40:23 does it work for services Mar 11 21:40:35 absolutely nothing needed to debug this Mar 11 21:40:52 number1pete: as I said, those are the scripts we use to package everything from webos-internals Mar 11 21:41:33 so just /bin/sh/ that script in my workbench directory or something? Mar 11 21:41:58 number1pete: what development OS are you using? Mar 11 21:42:10 jacques: install a live image and then install the server Mar 11 21:42:32 number1pete: they are python scripts Mar 11 21:42:43 i move between mac and pc depending on if im at work.....been writing txt files and such....for the mojo app been using Ares Mar 11 21:42:59 those scripts work find on the Mac Mar 11 21:43:07 good good Mar 11 21:43:33 so in terminal what would you write to run that script? Mar 11 21:44:10 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=blob;f=support/package.mk shows how it's used. Mar 11 21:44:41 if you run the script it should give usage info too Mar 11 21:44:49 egaudet_work: hmm? Mar 11 21:45:32 * rwhitby bbl Mar 11 21:45:55 okay....so in summary....if i use this script i will be good to go as far as packaging my service for WOSQI installations and removals Mar 11 21:47:28 jacques: since you are having all the trouble with server edition, put a live image of ubuntu distro on usb and install it, then boot to ubuntu and install your server addition rootfs? Mar 11 21:47:55 hey, halo guy posted alpha 1 Mar 11 21:48:03 too bad the link goes to a rickroll Mar 11 21:48:04 lol Mar 11 21:48:07 lol Mar 11 21:48:18 trololololololol, lololol Mar 11 21:48:24 i just noticed the PDK beta is out Mar 11 21:48:24 I gots mah reverse phone directory up and running Mar 11 21:48:30 * halfhalo_T400 is happy Mar 11 21:48:47 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGu1YlXHVFM Mar 11 21:48:52 http://silentbluesystems.com/Downloads/com.silentbluesystems.prepagesphonelite_0.1.5_all.ipk Mar 11 21:49:01 egaudet_work: I don't understand how that would work Mar 11 21:49:34 thanks for help rwhitby g2g now.....will come back on if i have any more problems Mar 11 21:49:41 jacques: why wouldn't it? Mar 11 21:49:46 havent seen any news reports about it the PDK being released but i just downloaded it Mar 11 21:50:14 egaudet_work: I'm not saying it wouldn't work - but that I don't understand what you mean - install live and then install server over it ? Mar 11 21:50:38 throw a live ubuntu image on usb, boot into ubuntu, partition your hard drive, isntall grub, rootfs etc..., reboot to hard drive Mar 11 21:52:03 and then ... ? Mar 11 21:52:22 and then you are done? Mar 11 21:52:39 but how does that get me a server install ? Mar 11 21:52:47 I don't want a desktop install Mar 11 21:52:59 I meant to extract the server rootfs onto harddrive Mar 11 21:53:24 basically manually installing it Mar 11 21:56:50 missing something Mar 11 21:57:03 awawwwwwwww Mar 11 21:57:17 I can't make a new thread in the Homebrews section of PC Mar 11 21:57:47 have to be a developer Mar 11 21:57:51 and why does 5555555555 work in my app Mar 11 21:58:02 It comes up with two listing Mar 11 21:59:10 I mean, srsly phone. Get your act together Mar 11 22:01:02 thats movie/tv mode Mar 11 22:01:14 I know Mar 11 22:01:45 my app is a reverse phone number lookup app. And that number is listed Mar 11 22:01:49 twice Mar 11 22:01:50 jacques: you want server edition right? You have all the files, the "install" does nothing special that you can't do manually Mar 11 22:05:50 egaudet_work: I'm not familiar with the ubuntu installer, but for example doing the same thing with fedora would be very painful Mar 11 22:06:10 halfhalo_T400: wait. you have a reversephone directory patched into the phone? Mar 11 22:06:13 how come? Mar 11 22:06:27 ghost_of_zsoc: its an app im writing Mar 11 22:06:32 it pings a server for the info Mar 11 22:06:42 sure, most distros involve untarring a simple directory tree, installing a bunch of packages, running some distro-specific post-install stuff, installing bootloader, etc Mar 11 22:07:00 but where does one find out all the exact things? Mar 11 22:07:03 halfhalo_T400: if you want to post in the homebrew forum, pm dieter Mar 11 22:07:43 lol "well this certainly turned out to be a waste of a thread. now we wait for a mod to close it" Mar 11 22:07:49 frmo one of the guys who thought it was real Mar 11 22:08:22 I've installed gentoo like a hundred times. I have a good feel for what's involved. I've done unusual things with fedora in the last few years; I know anaconda is a POS PITA Mar 11 22:08:43 I really have no feel for the ubuntu installer Mar 11 22:09:13 oilsworkn: yeah, I'll eventually get around to it Mar 11 22:09:28 trying to get regular expressions working first Mar 11 22:10:00 I have, for example used xentools rinse to unpack fedora ppc rpms to a dir tree on a x86 machine, then moved the whole lot to a chroot on a ppc machine and manually done the postinstall - finding out by trial and error what's required Mar 11 22:10:26 I was kinda hoping installing ubuntu on a laptop would be simpler than that Mar 11 22:10:33 your laptop has no cd drive? Mar 11 22:10:50 correct Mar 11 22:11:02 one of those ultraportables? Mar 11 22:11:07 or just doesnt Mar 11 22:11:15 lenovo x61t Mar 11 22:11:27 don't they have the ultrabay? Mar 11 22:11:33 * halfhalo_T400 luvs his T400 Mar 11 22:11:45 we have a couple x41 convertibles here at work Mar 11 22:11:56 but we also have a usb cdrom drive to hook up to them when needed Mar 11 22:12:14 I usually keep a 500GB drive in my ultrabay Mar 11 22:12:15 yeah I have a USB cdrom drive. Mar 11 22:12:21 never need a cd drive Mar 11 22:12:25 USB DVD drive, that is. at home Mar 11 22:12:31 lol Mar 11 22:12:48 in this day and age, why should I ever need it? Mar 11 22:13:02 I use it to restore windows to my netbook Mar 11 22:13:11 well if its at home Mar 11 22:13:18 the real holdup is not wanting to wait till you got there? Mar 11 22:14:05 I guess. but at this point it's becoming a matter of principle Mar 11 22:14:43 lol Mar 11 22:14:45 I wonder how much setup is involved to do a net install Mar 11 22:15:06 don't tell me every ubuntu SERVER has a DVD drive Mar 11 22:15:53 why not just install the base system off an alternate install cd, or even a live cd, then install the ubuntu-server package? Mar 11 22:16:20 hell, you could install debian, the change the repo's to ubuntu and do it that way if you wanted to Mar 11 22:17:22 part of the issue is I was going to use this to debug any WIDK issues on 64-bit - I need to be sure I have the same install as anyone else Mar 11 22:17:43 well, if you do the base system, then thats all you have Mar 11 22:17:54 no x, no nothing Mar 11 22:18:14 you can then install ubuntu-server and be done Mar 11 22:18:17 yes, but is base + server package exactly the same as installing the server install ? Mar 11 22:18:44 hell, you could even install ubuntu desktop, install the server package, and purge everything else Mar 11 22:23:14 if its not 100% the same, it will be damn close. Mar 11 22:23:57 Actually, I can't think of why it wouldn't Mar 11 22:25:02 jacques: so where are you with the USB installing it? Mar 11 22:25:05 "If you get "Incorrect CD-ROM detected" error on detection stage, reboot, press F6 and then ESC to go to manual boot line editing, and add the option 'cdrom-detect/try-usb=true'. On Ubuntu 9.10 server edition the install menu will be shown right after reboot. Chose "Help" and then press F6. At the boot prompt type "install cdrom-detect/try-usb=true" and hit enter. " Mar 11 22:26:21 egaudet_work: I got to where the hd-install image was looking for the .iso, found it, but could not mount it because of some loop device problem - google searching did not resolve that Mar 11 22:27:04 it's either busybox mount bug, or maybe the loop device isn't included in the rootfs - no module, and no mention of loop in dmesg Mar 11 22:27:14 yet there are /dev/loop? devices Mar 11 22:27:41 maybe time to go to network install Mar 11 22:27:56 I'm thinking bb mount bug, because, /proc/devices has an entry for major 7 Mar 11 22:28:22 which is loop, "7 loop" Mar 11 22:28:40 yeah network install is sounding pretty good right about now Mar 11 22:29:02 this would be a cool demo on the pre http://kode80.com/2010/03/11/holotoy-on-the-appstore-now/ Mar 11 22:30:31 I wonder if he copied the DS game or the DS game copied him Mar 11 22:30:32 * oilsworkn waits for jhojho to create Mar 11 22:30:54 heh. that's beyond me. never done 3d Mar 11 22:30:56 tho I think the DS game is really a DSi game and also uses the camera Mar 11 22:32:00 lol @ it being allowed into apple store Mar 11 22:32:05 * jacques reads https://help.ubuntu.com/9.10/serverguide/C/index.html and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation#Server%20and%20network%20installations Mar 11 22:32:27 i would certainly consider that app of limited use Mar 11 22:34:04 server kernel is configured differently Mar 11 22:34:27 it installs the server kernel with it Mar 11 22:35:04 Why is it that my SteamFriends app has the old icon in the PC web distro page? Grrrr Mar 11 22:35:23 steamfriends? Mar 11 22:35:30 another one of my apps Mar 11 22:35:54 how many apps you got? Mar 11 22:36:03 right now? Mar 11 22:36:07 one in the web distro Mar 11 22:36:20 one waiting to be upped to the beta catalog Mar 11 22:36:31 one more that I have to tweak before being upped Mar 11 22:36:46 and depending on the success of the last two, another paid one Mar 11 22:37:04 lol Mar 11 22:37:32 the two apps I have to upload are my reverse phone and reverse address ones Mar 11 22:37:55 and I would like to just have them in one, but im trying to stay within the free api limits of my sourse Mar 11 22:37:58 source* Mar 11 22:38:54 if they prove popular enough, I want to release a paid one that either is a monthly fee, or has a high enough pricetag so that I at least come out even on it Mar 11 22:40:35 http://developer.palm.com/webChannel/index.php?packageid=com.silentbluesystems.steamfriends Mar 11 22:40:40 SteamFriends Mar 11 22:43:49 oilsworkn: its like your xbox app except for steam Mar 11 22:57:54 just took 18:29 of video Mar 11 22:58:16 then the camera stopped on its own Mar 11 23:01:01 so, cross-compile.git is still downloading the 1.3.5 doctors ? Mar 11 23:06:41 * egaudet_work commute bbl Mar 11 23:08:06 jacques: we don't have source for 1.4 do we? Mar 11 23:08:16 just checkd and no Mar 11 23:08:18 why did 'make setup" only populate the staging/armv6 rootfs ? Mar 11 23:08:29 dtzWill: OK that's probably why Mar 11 23:08:32 that, i have no idea O:) Mar 11 23:10:25 that was my bad Mar 11 23:10:32 ran out of space last time Mar 11 23:10:38 just did again Mar 11 23:11:20 looks like I need about 2GiB or more to have a cross-compile.git with 'make setup' done (nothing else) Mar 11 23:12:54 that doesn't even count the downloads nor doctors Mar 11 23:13:22 which together make up another GiB (at least) Mar 11 23:13:42 no wonder my VM is constantly out of space now Mar 11 23:22:54 So, who has tested Preware 0.9.30 and Package Manager Service 0.9.41 ? Mar 11 23:23:05 I need three success reports so I can release them Mar 11 23:24:23 I think I have them installed, but haven't really tested Mar 11 23:24:57 make that Package Manager Service 0.9.42 actually Mar 11 23:25:29 yeah I have those installed Mar 11 23:25:33 since yesterday Mar 11 23:25:43 how shall I test ? Mar 11 23:26:17 * jacques remembers he is data roaming so only 1x (unless I go outside) Mar 11 23:26:20 enable palm catalog feed Mar 11 23:26:27 update feeds Mar 11 23:26:48 turn update feeds preference to manual Mar 11 23:26:52 reboot the pre Mar 11 23:26:56 load preware Mar 11 23:27:10 make sure that palm catalog feed data is loaded (not re-downloaded, just loaded) Mar 11 23:27:24 reboot is really required ? Mar 11 23:27:27 Hey rod, I'm getting a messed up description in jStop Mar 11 23:27:39 jacques: java service restart would do Mar 11 23:27:46 Tibfib: what are you getting? Mar 11 23:27:47 `k Mar 11 23:27:54 Tibfib: I just fixed that. I think azakus had a cut and paste mishap :-) Mar 11 23:27:57 It just repeats the same line of text a few times Mar 11 23:27:58 rwhitby: I'm going outside to test this - back in a bit Mar 11 23:27:59 gah Mar 11 23:28:00 oh good Mar 11 23:28:05 Just letting ya know Mar 11 23:28:06 not downloading palm catalog over 1x Mar 11 23:28:33 azakus: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=commitdiff;h=036a174a406d7c2413aa31c7e8d2e886f827b181;hp=a3fa7a07cffb862178624a04a1c1c318ec7bc50e Mar 11 23:28:41 yeah I saw it :( Mar 11 23:28:52 I use middle button to move in terminal Mar 11 23:29:05 and for paste if not using it with trackpoint Mar 11 23:29:12 azakus: fixed in http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=commitdiff;h=63a6ed916b1b47f7af729bdddc88d724674d56bf;hp=036a174a406d7c2413aa31c7e8d2e886f827b181 Mar 11 23:29:19 thanks Mar 11 23:29:33 azakus: I can make the autobuilder rebuild it if you like Mar 11 23:30:04 that would be awesome Mar 11 23:30:10 anyone else testing preware and ipkgservice current alpha versions? Mar 11 23:31:10 anyone know how long it takes a pre to process about 19 minutes of video Mar 11 23:31:56 screw it Mar 11 23:32:05 i think the video was really screwed Mar 11 23:32:10 ok well Mar 11 23:32:14 s/ok/oh/ Mar 11 23:32:15 azakus meant: oh well Mar 11 23:32:33 it was only video of the new lego universe (nda would prevent release of the video anyway) Mar 11 23:36:31 rwhitby: test successful Mar 11 23:36:52 palm catalog was still there after kill preware, java restart, start preware Mar 11 23:37:06 (I always have manual updates) Mar 11 23:38:23 ~~~~ Mar 11 23:38:24 ARGH!!! STOP IT jacques!!! Mar 11 23:39:00 hey does someone know offhand how to enable usbnet? i redid my phone and i can't remember :(. out and about so can't easily troll the intertubes Mar 11 23:39:16 ##USBNET# maybe? Mar 11 23:39:31 dtzWill: there's also a patch Mar 11 23:39:39 dtzWill: there's a script which writes a file to a dir un /var Mar 11 23:40:00 I would have to dig out my cable and ssh into my phone to find it tho Mar 11 23:40:15 dtzWill: type usbnet-TAB Mar 11 23:40:22 it might be called usbnet_enable Mar 11 23:40:36 you can write the file manually too Mar 11 23:40:38 ot Mar 11 23:40:46 err. it's "usbnet enable" from the commandline Mar 11 23:40:58 sounds right Mar 11 23:41:36 dtzWill: you can have devmode and usbnet both enabled Mar 11 23:41:40 * jacques does Mar 11 23:42:03 ty. it was something simple, and it persisted before :D. ty Mar 11 23:42:26 it does indeed persist - even through the 1.3.0 upgrade Mar 11 23:42:31 s/3/4/ Mar 11 23:42:31 jacques meant: it does indeed persist - even through the 1.4.0 upgrade Mar 11 23:42:58 ~botsnack Mar 11 23:42:58 jacques: thanks Mar 11 23:44:09 ahh, i remember. it's ##USBPASS# Mar 11 23:44:21 oh it would if i didn't nuke my phone entirely before putting 1.4 on it Mar 11 23:44:35 huh Mar 11 23:44:43 my friend just got a c# app running on the pre Mar 11 23:45:01 using mono Mar 11 23:47:27 to each his own I guess Mar 11 23:50:02 Greetings Mar 11 23:51:59 I could use some help figuring out some SDL related stuff on webOS Mar 11 23:53:20 rwhitby: hehe, just wanted to inquire about duke3D 1.0.6 not visible in the feed, but now it is :) Mar 11 23:53:22 I cross-compiled Mono and have it running on my Pre. I tried a sample SDL application written in C#, and it opens a card in Luna just like any other SDL app, except that it can't find the OpenGL shared objects... since presumably they are different for OpenGL ES Mar 11 23:53:31 and it's even installable.... Mar 11 23:53:46 Mono on pre? Mar 11 23:53:48 oh Mar 11 23:53:51 Mono on pre :) Mar 11 23:54:06 ask miguel? Mar 11 23:54:14 I tell my colleques :) Mar 11 23:54:20 I'm facing two problems at present: Not really knowing enough about how SDL/OpenGL works in webOS, and trying to find a place to actually install the damn thing on the device. Mar 11 23:54:38 I can't use /media/internal since Mono has a bunch of symlinks to its own files, which are of course not supported by vfat Mar 11 23:54:39 a place to install? Mar 11 23:55:03 cryptfs is not vfat, or? Mar 11 23:55:07 Right now I've stuck it in /opt but it's 150 mb Mar 11 23:55:26 that's huge... Mar 11 23:55:29 Well, I tried extracting my mono build into cryptofs and tar complained that it could not create the symlinks Mar 11 23:55:34 Indeed Mar 11 23:55:52 I can probably cut the size back considerably after removing unneeded assemblies (web development stuff etc) and stripping binaries Mar 11 23:55:57 why does it need so much symlinksß Mar 11 23:56:14 I haven't a clue, probably for how it implements versioning with the GAC or something Mar 11 23:56:33 If possible I'd like to not mess with it. I trust the Mono guys to know what they're doing Mar 11 23:56:45 hm :) Mar 11 23:58:23 should be able to have symlinks in cryptofs no? Mar 11 23:59:14 I guess Mar 11 23:59:26 I don't know. I cross-compiled mono, tar'ed it up, and extracted it to cryptofs and tar complained about making the symlinks Mar 11 23:59:38 let me try making one by hand Mar 11 23:59:43 where are the symlinks going to? Mar 11 23:59:51 other mono files Mar 12 00:00:18 * jacques has a 2GiB /var Mar 12 00:00:25 nope, can't seem to make a symlink in cryptofs Mar 12 00:00:28 which is totally beside the point :-) Mar 12 00:00:39 cd /media/cryptofs; ln -s test apps Mar 12 00:00:45 ln: apps/test: operation not permitted Mar 12 00:01:38 it's not permitted because vfat doesn't support symlinks Mar 12 00:01:43 right Mar 12 00:02:02 we put things in cryptofs, and link to them from /var Mar 12 00:02:16 right Mar 12 00:02:17 and bind mount the /var dir to /usr :-D Mar 12 00:02:31 (the /var/local to /usr/local that is) Mar 12 00:02:51 widk package does these things Mar 12 00:04:31 aww, the halo thread got closed Mar 12 00:04:39 what was the reason? Mar 12 00:04:51 duchebaggery Mar 12 00:04:56 It looks like Mono has links from a generic version of an assembly name to a specific version Mar 12 00:05:01 talking about non-legal copies? Mar 12 00:05:03 did the guy ever admit he was lying? Mar 12 00:05:13 He posted a "download" link Mar 12 00:05:17 to a rickroll vid on youtube. Mar 12 00:05:18 he posted an alpha v1 download link Mar 12 00:05:19 lol Mar 12 00:05:19 i.e. linking /usr/lib/foo to /usr/lib/foo.1.0.2 or whatever Mar 12 00:05:29 unshorten.com FTW Mar 12 00:07:05 Emon: the GL libs thing - sounds like your app is trying to dynamically load GL libs instead of GLES Mar 12 00:07:13 jacques, right Mar 12 00:07:23 well, actually it is trying to load opengl32.dll at the moment but that's not the point :) Mar 12 00:07:28 I don't know what the proper lib should be Mar 12 00:07:42 also, even if you got it to load the libs, it may not work because it may use non-ES calls Mar 12 00:07:57 yeah, maybe. but it's just a gears demo Mar 12 00:07:59 so, probably not Mar 12 00:08:01 there are two libs on the pre - CM 1.1 and 2.0 Mar 12 00:08:06 I mean, probably will work. Mar 12 00:08:24 I dunno - I have seen extremely simple GL apps not work because they use begin and end for example Mar 12 00:08:30 which are not in ES Mar 12 00:08:33 oh Mar 12 00:08:34 haha Mar 12 00:08:42 same with quads Mar 12 00:08:43 yeah it wont work Mar 12 00:09:31 you said CM 1.1 and 2.0. what's CM? Mar 12 00:10:08 compat mode Mar 12 00:10:12 ok Mar 12 00:11:11 Emon: take a look at http://www.khronos.org/opengles/ Mar 12 00:11:36 I found /usr/lib/libGLES_CM.so and /usr/lib/libGLESv2.so? Mar 12 00:11:58 yep those are them Mar 12 00:12:07 Yeah, I am. I've done a little OpenGL 1.x but nothing with 2.0 and definitely nothing with ES Mar 12 00:14:01 Any ideas as to making Mono install to somewhere sensible? Mar 12 00:14:17 Nah, Mono loves to install in insensible locations Mar 12 00:14:22 Emon: it includes libs ? Mar 12 00:14:24 The only solution I can think of right now is flattneing the symlinks, putting it all in cryptofs and making a thousand symlinks to it... Mar 12 00:15:00 A thousand is probably overkill Mar 12 00:15:08 indeed Mar 12 00:15:30 lol Mar 12 00:16:05 but yes, mono has a ton of libraries, all the managed assemblies Mar 12 00:17:02 Hrrm, is it possible to add fields to the contacts object returned by the palm://com.palm.contacts reverselookup method? (Say, by adding fields to tables in the DB or something?) Mar 12 00:19:01 Emon: we're working through the same issues with X server and QT Mar 12 00:19:13 Mr Rod....i sent you a PM.....could you please review my service for security problems.....and package it up and send back......i was just having way to much problems packaging it myself Mar 12 00:19:25 a PM on precentral that is..... Mar 12 00:19:33 jacques: What problem are you having with the X server and install locations? Mar 12 00:20:02 it requires many shared libs Mar 12 00:20:13 hmm Mar 12 00:20:14 Yes, yes it does. Harder to get rid of that. Mar 12 00:20:18 we want to standardize on a scheme for packages which include libs Mar 12 00:20:33 I think all of the symlinks are just links to managed assemblies. It probably wouldn't hurt to replace them with copies. Mar 12 00:20:39 jacques: Are you trying for the full X server or for one of the embedded builds? Mar 12 00:21:02 currently, we are doing libs in /media/cryptofs, a dir in /var with symlinks, and a bind mount of that dir to /usr Mar 12 00:21:16 What's a bind mount? Mar 12 00:21:17 that way, the binaries find their libs in /usr/local/lib Mar 12 00:21:35 Why the dir in /var with symlinks? Mar 12 00:21:47 (Does cryptofs not do symlinks?) Mar 12 00:21:52 because /var is always writable for one Mar 12 00:21:55 no, it's vfat Mar 12 00:22:00 cryptofs is over vfat which does not do symlinks Mar 12 00:22:05 Ahhhh. Mar 12 00:22:27 That's, frustrating. But I don't see a better solution for you either. Mar 12 00:22:30 Emon: bind mount is mounting a local dir over another dir Mar 12 00:22:37 yeah I just read up on it :) Mar 12 00:22:47 Note, you can bind mount files as well. Mar 12 00:22:50 Mercury: we are using kdrive xsdl Mar 12 00:23:17 Sadly, we still don't have a good union mount. Mar 12 00:23:23 I've no idea about X and Qt, but mono seems to play well when you configure it to install to an arbitrary directory and just add the necessary directories to the path Mar 12 00:23:37 jacques: Sensible. I take it that Palm did a SDL port to the pre's UI? Mar 12 00:23:47 Mercury: yes Mar 12 00:23:54 Any harm in modifying the path variable? Mar 12 00:24:03 they integrated it well with their GUI manager Mar 12 00:24:04 appending* Mar 12 00:24:18 jacques: I'm _very_ glad to hear that they took that approach. Mar 12 00:24:32 Yeah, it's pretty fantastic Mar 12 00:24:37 Mercury: It's about 16 thousand lines of a patch to libsdl :D Mar 12 00:24:41 iirc Mar 12 00:24:48 jacques: I hope that they are working with upstream to get the patches merged. Mar 12 00:24:51 I tried playing a point and click adventure with ScummVM. it's about worthless on that little screen :D Mar 12 00:25:24 Mercury: I've looked at tha patches, and they are not aimed at upstream :-) Mar 12 00:25:51 once SDL 1.3 stabilizes, maybe they will move to that - would require fewer mods I think Mar 12 00:26:00 jacques: That's... Frustrating, since I'm quite sure that Sam would be happy to work with them. Mar 12 00:26:06 also, I'm not sure SDL 1.2 is taking further mods Mar 12 00:26:20 they had the "final release" of 1.2 Mar 12 00:26:30 It's been quite a while since I was really involved with SDL. Mar 12 00:27:01 Mercury: Mercury: X screenies :D http://twitter.com/webosinternals/status/10265954480 :) Mar 12 00:27:05 But Sam is generally pretty easy to work with. Mar 12 00:27:38 jacques: for now I was thinking of just shippig libraries with X server, and setup rpath accordingly. but I agree a genreal library solution is needed, for clients, etc, and especially for frameworks like qt Mar 12 00:28:00 dtzWill: There's something just, wrong with that. :) Mar 12 00:28:25 dtzWill: Why a rpath and not setting up the LD path properly in /etc? Mar 12 00:28:32 Mercury, it's frightening :) Mar 12 00:28:38 Mercury: we don't wanna touch the root partition Mar 12 00:28:53 Mercury: and it's a kludge until the stuff jacques was talking about is in place Mar 12 00:28:53 it's a policy thing Mar 12 00:29:02 it's a smart policy thing Mar 12 00:29:12 Hmmm. Mar 12 00:29:16 we only have smart polices :-) Mar 12 00:29:25 Mercury: not just security and stability (well maybe stability), but OTAs tend to touch... everything... and Palm OTA happen very often. Mar 12 00:29:44 now, you could set the PATH only in the process env, but how ? Mar 12 00:29:45 And they didn't do a ld.so.d which would make it adding a file instead of changing files. Mar 12 00:30:51 jacques: Policy that all programs get invoked through a wrapper that sets the PATH and LD_LIBRARY_PATH? Mar 12 00:31:08 So if you have something that normally (on any other Linux system) installs stuff in say, /usr/local/{bin,etc,lib} and so forth, what's the proper way to handle that? i.e. the way it SHOULD be done Mar 12 00:31:55 Changing /etc/ld.so.conf, or in more modern distributions adding a file to /etc/ld.so.conf.d/ Mar 12 00:32:08 wait, you waved at yourself in that screenshot>? Mar 12 00:32:28 oilsworkn: hahahaha yeah :). no one else responded fast enough :/ Mar 12 00:32:37 lol Mar 12 00:33:07 oilsworkn: i would've had you since i think you responded but it was admist some people saying erroneous things and didn't wanna reflect on them badly :D Mar 12 00:33:14 Mercury, oh okay, to indicate default library locations Mar 12 00:33:31 what if you don't want to touch / Mar 12 00:33:57 what screenshot? Mar 12 00:33:59 that is the problem, I take it? Mar 12 00:34:18 http://wdtz.org/pre_x/xchat2.png Mar 12 00:34:22 * oilsworkn goes home Mar 12 00:34:23 Emon: yeah we don't want to touch / more than necesssary Mar 12 00:34:48 oh yeah I saw that Mar 12 00:35:35 for example, / is usually mounted ro, for every change we need to remount it rw, tho we do this for all patches ... Mar 12 00:35:50 (or do we?) Mar 12 00:36:29 jacques: Bind mount /etc/ld.so.conf. Mar 12 00:36:57 errr ##USBPASS# prompts me to get a validation code from palm representative o_O Mar 12 00:37:15 terminal it is :) Mar 12 00:37:40 Mercury: and ld.so.cache ? Mar 12 00:37:41 jacques: If the ld.so can hack it, put in one that reads /usr/local/etc/ld.so.conf.d, and bind mount the 'real' file into there. But I'm drawing a blank on if you can abuse the bind mount enough for the last one. A copy would do just as well. Mar 12 00:37:46 jacques: Yeah. Mar 12 00:38:08 jacques: Actually, the cache is already in /var, it's a symlink. Mar 12 00:38:16 interesting Mar 12 00:38:45 Bind mounts on files instead of directories are, interesting. :) Mar 12 00:38:50 (And useful.) Mar 12 00:38:58 how about just have ldconfig use a different conf file ? Mar 12 00:39:20 since it puts the cache in /var. andld looks at the cache not the conf right? Mar 12 00:39:35 Nope, the problem is that /lib/ld.so is very special, unless you're replacing _that_, then the system itself will never look in the right place. Mar 12 00:39:46 And I strongly recommend against screwing with the ld.so itself. Mar 12 00:40:01 I don't understand that part Mar 12 00:40:23 I was talking about ldconfig -f /var/something/ld.so.conf Mar 12 00:40:43 Actually, hmm, I see you're point. I don't actually know if ld.so even reads the .conf, or if it _just_ reads the cache. Mar 12 00:40:53 I;'m assuming it only reads the cache Mar 12 00:41:07 ldconfig makes the cache, ld.so reads it Mar 12 00:41:13 (is my assumption) Mar 12 00:41:40 strace on my ubuntu box confirms that at least the normal one does what you're suggesting. Mar 12 00:42:04 "man ld.so" only mentions the cache in files section Mar 12 00:42:08 ldconfig -f would do the trick, no bind mounts needed. Mar 12 00:42:09 nothing about the config Mar 12 00:42:28 And the normal output is fine, since it's a symlink. Mar 12 00:42:44 yep Mar 12 00:43:10 I'd suggest having a config file that includes /etc/ld.so.conf, so if they make changes you're fine. Mar 12 00:43:23 I'm heading home, back online in a bit. Mar 12 00:43:31 me too soon Mar 12 00:43:42 also back in a bit after heading home Mar 12 00:44:17 Quick question. Mar 12 00:45:01 More of a repeat, do you know offhand if more variables to the contact object returned by the reverselookup method of palm://com.palm.contacts can be extended by messing with the table or something? Mar 12 00:45:26 I'm sorry that's pretty far out of my area :-) Mar 12 00:45:32 (I need to do some flags for the contacts, annoyingly.) Mar 12 00:45:37 Heh, understood. :) Mar 12 00:46:12 Out of mine too, but I've got a patch that I want enough that I'm learning javascript and the webos environment, when I'd really just like to stick to C. :) Mar 12 00:46:16 How can I get symlink info in a shell script Mar 12 00:46:26 Emon: What kind of info? Mar 12 00:46:31 C FTW Mar 12 00:46:34 just what they point to Mar 12 00:46:51 Emon: ls -l, parsing may be unfun, I suggest learning about 'cut'. Mar 12 00:46:53 what's a wrong with rpath Mar 12 00:46:56 oh I know this (in the back of my mind) Mar 12 00:46:58 basically, I want to write a script that will replace symlinks with the actual files. It sounds like a horrific idea but in this instance I think it's okay Mar 12 00:47:28 Mono has symlinks of general versions of assemblies to specific versions to cut back on size. but symlinks don't work in cryptofs, so I'm stuck making copies Mar 12 00:47:43 Emon: man readlink Mar 12 00:47:53 cool, thanks Mar 12 00:48:01 <-- not a linux dev :) Mar 12 00:48:07 * jacques hopes readlink is on webos :-D Mar 12 00:48:13 it is a standard tool Mar 12 00:48:31 Ah, yeah, that's the better tool for that. Mar 12 00:48:38 * Mercury leaves. Mar 12 00:48:53 btw bind or any other mounting over rootfs is a tricky issue due to OTA Mar 12 00:49:08 readlink is there, though I don't need it on webOS, only on the host OS that cross compiles Mar 12 00:49:20 egaudet: what do you think of this idea (I see no problems with it so far): Mar 12 00:49:38 we run ldconfig -f some_file_in_var Mar 12 00:50:23 the ld.so.cache (which is in /var according to Mercury) gets updated, and ld.so uses it to find the libs wherever they are Mar 12 00:50:49 the some_file_in_var would naturally include additional dirs Mar 12 00:51:19 yeah, it's in /var/cache/ld.so.cache Mar 12 00:51:23 er, it is* Mar 12 00:51:31 cool Mar 12 00:51:38 just not logged into my phone ATM Mar 12 00:54:00 jacques, I get this trying that: Mar 12 00:54:01 root@palm-webos-device:/# ldconfig -f /var/ld.so.conf -C /var/ld.so.cache Mar 12 00:54:01 ldconfig: Can't link /usr/lib/liblunaservice-java to liblunaservice-java.so.0 Mar 12 00:54:21 That's very interesting. Mar 12 00:54:49 weird Mar 12 00:56:00 egaudet: does your /var/ld.so.conf include everything in /etc/ld.so.conf (maybe you justcopied it?) Mar 12 00:56:24 yea Mar 12 00:56:48 it needs everything in /etc/ld.so.conf right? Mar 12 00:56:56 (I did just copy it) Mar 12 00:57:08 yeah that should work fine Mar 12 00:57:35 this bears further investigation Mar 12 00:57:52 I'll help when I get home (if my help is still needed at that time) Mar 12 00:58:09 * jacques makes like a tree and goes home. Mar 12 01:08:34 I'm a bit confused: SDL won't support OpenGL ES until 1.3, so how do existing SDL apps like say, Doom or ScummVM work? Are they just using regular OpenGL calls that are also in OpenGL ES? Mar 12 01:13:43 SDL supports OpenGL ES I thought Mar 12 01:14:14 and Doom etc... are software rendering I believe Mar 12 01:20:44 It doesn't seem to support it until 1.3? Mar 12 01:20:48 unless it supports only ES 1.1 Mar 12 01:21:10 emon, there are ES patches applied to the SDL 1.2 sources .. Mar 12 01:21:11 And there's an SDL port of Doom. It's still software but it's targeting an SDL surface, I guess. that's what the doom app on preware does I think Mar 12 01:21:15 check the 1.3.5.1 patches Mar 12 01:21:16 Oh Mar 12 01:21:52 you mean the SDL libs on webOS are patched to run with ES Mar 12 01:21:53 makes sense Mar 12 01:21:56 zsoc, guess what time it is: http://opensource.palm.com/1.4.0/index.html Mar 12 01:22:28 bpadalino: YEEEYYZZ!!! Mar 12 01:22:35 * zsoc *my faVORITE time* Mar 12 01:22:40 :D Mar 12 01:23:08 bpadalino: lol, patches are 404 Mar 12 01:23:17 I really want to see the gst-ffmpeg patch Mar 12 01:23:18 D: Mar 12 01:24:01 hrmm .. some of the other ones are fine Mar 12 01:24:06 i wonder which ones are 404'd Mar 12 01:24:35 well at least gst-ffmpeg Mar 12 01:26:21 glibmm seems to be missing too Mar 12 01:27:24 bpadalino: can you gunzip a file to a different name? Like if it's patch.gz can you gunzip patch.gz > patch1.gz Mar 12 01:27:43 that is a ridiculous question Mar 12 01:27:47 lets strike it from the record Mar 12 01:27:52 gzip -dc Mar 12 01:28:13 jacques: oh, nice, thanks Mar 12 01:28:23 I'm at a complete loss as to why my usbnet isn't working. Mar 12 01:28:28 np :-) Mar 12 01:29:51 issudisto: if that's asking for help, you could tell us why you feel it isn't working Mar 12 01:30:05 it says it's there in terminus, but my ubuntu isn't connecting Mar 12 01:30:25 yea, sorry. at work >_> Mar 12 01:31:37 I'm not entirely. I rooted my pre manually way back when. I have aa feeling everything just broke w/ 1.4 Mar 12 01:33:17 issudisto, I did the same thing, I'd been hacking since June and after 1.4 I just doctored it Mar 12 01:33:30 heh Mar 12 01:33:35 bpadalino: util-linux-ng is new, and unpatched Mar 12 01:33:52 issudisto: ifconfig show usb0? Mar 12 01:33:53 very nice Mar 12 01:33:53 yea, my dropbear isn't working, can't ssh through blutooth anymore Mar 12 01:33:56 issudisto: on your host system that is Mar 12 01:34:00 http://www.meandmark.com/sdlopenglpart1.html Mar 12 01:34:05 issudisto I had similar problems Mar 12 01:34:19 issudisto: and users file was probably destroyed with 1.4, so if you created a non-root user he doesn't exist any longer Mar 12 01:34:20 it sees it, I think maybe I need to setup dhcp? Mar 12 01:34:33 ahhh Mar 12 01:34:36 issudisto: .... well it's not going to get an ip magically. just set something static in the same subnet Mar 12 01:34:51 issudisto: like ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.15 Mar 12 01:35:18 on the host? Mar 12 01:36:23 bpadalino: actually a lot of new packages Mar 12 01:36:25 issudisto: yes Mar 12 01:36:47 issudisto: also, i'm not sure if that's the exactly command, I meant "usb ifconfig to set usb0 to 192.168.0.15" Mar 12 01:36:58 s/usb/use/ Mar 12 01:36:58 zsoc meant: issudisto: also, i'm not sure if that's the exactly command, I meant "use ifconfig to set usb0 to 192.168.0.15" Mar 12 01:37:06 s/exactly/exact/ Mar 12 01:37:07 zsoc meant: issudisto: also, i'm not sure if that's the exact command, I meant "usb ifconfig to set usb0 to 192.168.0.15" Mar 12 01:37:08 yea Mar 12 01:37:09 I'm going to stop typing Mar 12 01:37:20 UAHSDFUOAN Mar 12 01:37:24 haha Mar 12 01:37:24 ok i'm better. Mar 12 01:37:32 just noticed that the unreal demo had the palm pre oriented in the opposite direction as to what normal games show up as Mar 12 01:37:49 note where the speaker is. it's on the right vs on the left Mar 12 01:38:13 well, they said it was really really buggy Mar 12 01:38:15 wonder if they oriented it that way or if its the video Mar 12 01:38:31 jhojho: maybe it's the only way they could get it to work lol Mar 12 01:38:32 the first command did it Mar 12 01:38:36 heh Mar 12 01:38:41 okay dinner time Mar 12 01:38:46 zsoc, whuch are some other good ones ? Mar 12 01:38:53 i don't know what util-linux-ng does :( Mar 12 01:39:51 I'm probably going to have to webdoctor Mar 12 01:40:57 been putting it off for so long... harr Mar 12 01:41:20 what exactly is saved to cloud? just contacts aye? Mar 12 01:41:24 i haven't had to doctor yet.. but i keep getting the too many cards error with only calendar and email open lately Mar 12 01:45:48 YES!!!! Mar 12 01:46:09 zsoc, oh, it 404's because they put two z's at the end .. Mar 12 01:46:10 * jacques just noticed open source packages. Mar 12 01:46:11 http://palm.cdnetworks.net/opensource/1.4.0/gst-ffmpeg-0.10.6-patch.gz - works Mar 12 01:47:57 Expres Stocks is a _really_ nice free app Mar 12 01:48:04 bpadalino: lol nice Mar 12 01:48:38 bpadalino: sorry, was afk, "Net Tools", and it's patch, is new Mar 12 01:49:02 WTF - boost ??? Mar 12 01:49:11 boost! Mar 12 01:49:13 did I know that already? Mar 12 01:50:28 dunno :( Mar 12 01:50:36 bpadalino: Oh, I see why I'm not getting my tags now... Mar 12 01:50:39 bpadalino: yeah, we know about boost Mar 12 01:50:58 I musta forgot Mar 12 01:50:58 bpadalino: C++ stuff, someone was really happy about it Mar 12 01:51:58 getting 404 on http://palm.cdnetworks.net/opensource/1.4.0/glibmm-2.14.2-patches.tgz Mar 12 01:54:37 yeah, dunno where that one is Mar 12 01:56:48 jacques: Description: C++ wrapper for the GLib toolkit (shared libraries) Mar 12 01:56:53 oh sorry Mar 12 01:56:58 thought you said "what that one is" Mar 12 01:57:01 :/ Mar 12 01:59:25 net-tools is _very_ interesting... Mar 12 02:00:32 zsoc, why is tat ? Mar 12 02:00:34 that rather Mar 12 02:01:58 bpadalino: because it does a lot of things that seem redundant, but it's not just some lib sitting in there for fun unused, it's patched nicely for inclusion Mar 12 02:02:31 there are a ton of patches in it .. i guess i don't understand what net-tools is used for :( Mar 12 02:03:07 network device configuration Mar 12 02:03:56 zsoc: have you tested the latest preware and ipkgservice? Mar 12 02:04:02 bpadalino: you? Mar 12 02:04:12 i have not .. Mar 12 02:04:17 rwhitby: i have no idea, what versions? Mar 12 02:04:40 rwhitby: did you get my test result? Mar 12 02:04:42 zsoc: 0.9.30 and 0.9.42 Mar 12 02:04:57 jacques: yep, thanks. Mar 12 02:05:36 np Mar 12 02:05:47 jacques: can you check that /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/lib/ipkg/lists is normally empty, and that the files are in .../cache instead? Mar 12 02:06:29 we move them in and out of lists when we update and install. Mar 12 02:06:43 this keeps the app catalog ipkg execution from seeing them Mar 12 02:08:30 /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/lib/ipkg/lists is empty and files are in cache Mar 12 02:08:53 jacques: do you see the Package Manager Service in the List Apps .... menu from the Launcher? Mar 12 02:09:21 checking Mar 12 02:10:15 rwhitby: nope Mar 12 02:10:28 ok, good Mar 12 02:10:51 jacques: and an install works, right? Mar 12 02:11:35 haven't tried that Mar 12 02:12:16 trying ... Mar 12 02:15:16 rwhitby: yeah AFAICT install worked Mar 12 02:17:42 jacques: also, please check /media/cryptofs/apps/.scripts/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice/* for scripts Mar 12 02:18:03 oh, hang on, they won't be there. Mar 12 02:18:29 (the package has them now, but the current installation methods don't put them in place) Mar 12 02:20:04 rwhitby: that did does not exist Mar 12 02:20:06 s/did/dir/ Mar 12 02:20:07 jacques meant: rwhitby: that dir does not exist Mar 12 02:20:33 /media/cryptofs/apps/.scripts/ does and has a few dirs in it Mar 12 02:20:35 jacques: good Mar 12 02:27:43 jacques: fyi, there are no patches for glibmm -- the html will be updated to remove the bogus patches link. :-) Mar 12 02:29:50 lemketron: thanks Mar 12 02:38:25 bbl Mar 12 02:40:14 http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/11/unreal-engine-3-up-and-running-on-webos-and-weve-got-video/ Mar 12 02:40:57 Now _that's_ some big news Mar 12 02:41:13 * zsoc relinquishes his WHE title Mar 12 02:41:47 jacques: I reckon they stole dtzWill's joystick on the left hand side idea ;-) Mar 12 02:42:32 sweeet video Mar 12 02:42:42 looks obviously unfinished, but smooooooth Mar 12 02:43:19 rwhitby: no, but they may have stole his code ;) Mar 12 02:43:32 virtual joysticks being done: common. Mar 12 02:43:38 virtual joysticks being done in SDL: all dtzWill Mar 12 02:43:58 as long as they release their code GPL => no problem. Mar 12 02:44:30 rwhitby: how much of GPL code do you have to adjust to use it with no licensing issues? Obviously you can't just change variable names.. ? Mar 12 02:45:02 zsoc: standard copyright laws Mar 12 02:45:28 I will have to brush up Mar 12 02:45:29 (which means only a lawyer and judge can answer that question for you) Mar 12 02:45:34 heh Mar 12 02:45:43 but they won't, because no one would ever see it :p heh Mar 12 02:46:01 au contraire, it's easy to spot GPL copies in binaries Mar 12 02:46:12 i see Mar 12 02:46:23 gpl-violations.org do it all the time in binary router firmware images Mar 12 02:46:31 you would know :> Mar 12 02:46:41 I've helped them in the pat Mar 12 02:46:42 pat Mar 12 02:46:44 past Mar 12 02:47:04 strings binary | grep GPL Mar 12 02:47:08 :-P Mar 12 02:47:23 jacques: that works in a surprisingly large number of cases Mar 12 02:47:38 Why do so many people think GPL is not legally binding. Mar 12 02:47:50 who thinks that Mar 12 02:48:01 rwhitby: I know :-) Mar 12 02:48:54 egaudet: D-Link Germany, at the very least, heh Mar 12 02:49:16 take em down! Mar 12 02:49:26 ddos? let's go! woot, botnet time Mar 12 02:50:09 infobot: attaaaack! Mar 12 02:50:20 I'll bring the bomb Mar 12 02:50:22 s Mar 12 02:50:31 ~botsmack Mar 12 02:50:33 OWW! Mar 12 02:50:55 infobot: lag much? Mar 12 02:53:22 oops, this tea is going to be rather strong Mar 12 02:55:02 fga Mar 12 02:55:02 df Mar 12 02:55:02 sd Mar 12 02:55:02 s Mar 12 02:55:02 df Mar 12 02:55:03 as Mar 12 02:55:03 df Mar 12 02:55:03 sad Mar 12 02:55:04 f Mar 12 02:55:04 sdf Mar 12 02:55:05 MEH Mar 12 02:55:06 hay Mar 12 02:55:06 infobot: attack jacques Mar 12 02:55:08 * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing jacques Mar 12 02:55:17 infobot is a woman? Mar 12 02:55:20 I WANT THE PIXI DANG Mar 12 02:55:52 who knew? Mar 12 02:56:06 That was excellent Mar 12 02:56:51 oh, rwhitby was bout to ban someone Mar 12 02:57:03 you? Mar 12 02:57:08 * oil thinks spammer Mar 12 02:57:14 I am Mar 12 02:57:17 I kicked someone once. rwhitby didn't yell at me, but I think he chose to ignore it. Mar 12 02:57:23 i bant someone once Mar 12 02:57:37 I murdered someone once.... Mar 12 02:57:44 I spilt my coke Mar 12 02:57:49 he* Mar 12 02:58:08 ~scream Mar 12 02:58:09 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh!!! Mar 12 02:59:52 http://imggmi.info/DSC-1268362402.jpg/ do my tits look big? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Mar 12 02:59:57 2010