**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Mar 12 02:59:57 2010 Mar 12 03:00:21 * oil is so tempted to click Mar 12 03:00:25 i did Mar 12 03:00:30 well? Mar 12 03:00:30 air purifiers... Mar 12 03:01:05 well, a fake "server moved click here" message Mar 12 03:01:09 then air purifiers Mar 12 03:01:15 I've never heard them called that before Mar 12 03:01:17 I bet he made a penny when you clicked that. Mar 12 03:01:31 meh Mar 12 03:01:46 a penny gained is a penny earned Mar 12 03:01:52 or some crap like that Mar 12 03:03:29 Archer is on! Mar 12 03:03:34 OMG] Mar 12 03:03:45 I will be watching that tomorrow while at work Mar 12 03:03:49 on a projector Mar 12 03:04:13 in other news, why does it take so long for an beta app's link to become active Mar 12 03:04:20 hell, its already showing up on pc Mar 12 03:12:54 halfhalo_T400: automated security checks of the package I expect Mar 12 03:13:19 Its 14k..... Mar 12 03:13:28 5 hours is a little excessive Mar 12 03:15:05 hmm Mar 12 03:15:46 how can I get an absolute path? Mar 12 03:15:47 like if I do: find . -type f | while read file Mar 12 03:15:47 how do I get the absolute path for file Mar 12 03:18:57 Emon: readlink -f Mar 12 03:19:14 find might be able to do it too Mar 12 03:22:11 is luna actually the web browser? i dont see it running Mar 12 03:22:18 a separate browser, that is Mar 12 03:23:29 ... Mar 12 03:23:36 not quite Mar 12 03:26:41 oh wait, i must have missed BrowserServer Mar 12 03:42:42 zsoc: i'm thinking of using tsocks with the browser Mar 12 03:42:48 zsoc: you know if anyone else has done this yet? Mar 12 03:43:43 cxreg: i am unsure of that posibility Mar 12 03:43:56 maybe http://tsocks.sourceforge.net/ Mar 12 03:45:02 yes that Mar 12 03:45:11 i'm working on it Mar 12 03:45:20 sounds partially useful Mar 12 03:45:23 yeah Mar 12 03:45:27 i want to access private VPN urls Mar 12 03:45:39 we'll see if it works Mar 12 03:46:43 cxreg: I ported delegate to optware Mar 12 03:47:37 oh, huh Mar 12 03:49:00 i have a question? Mar 12 03:49:50 which is..... Mar 12 03:50:21 does anybody know what i have to install to make my menu look like the iphone menu? Mar 12 03:50:57 i have a list of apps but i only see the iphone messaging set up Mar 12 03:51:21 chiqui: you have a possibly ambiguous nickname Mar 12 03:51:35 I have no idea..... and yes he does Mar 12 03:53:06 rwhitby: well, I have tsocks working Mar 12 03:53:12 that was not hard Mar 12 03:53:19 chiqui/short for chiquita Mar 12 03:53:33 so I figured out the loop mount thing with the ubuntu installer Mar 12 03:54:09 it's searching through the hard drive looking for isos, associating them with loop devices AND NOT DISASSOCIATING THEM Mar 12 03:54:18 jacques: push it upstream Mar 12 03:54:25 so once it reaches the eighth iso, it's done Mar 12 03:55:04 I know I should. Mar 12 03:55:30 so far I haven't found this mentioned anywhere - I'll look at their bugzilla Mar 12 04:02:44 I got wirc working, just testing it out Mar 12 04:04:06 Takes a lot to get it working these days. It's so complicated. Mar 12 04:05:21 yeah, your practically have to sell your firstborn son for it Mar 12 04:06:17 rwhitby: how hard is it to use your delegate port with the browser? Mar 12 04:06:34 cxreg: should just be iptables stuff Mar 12 04:07:01 oh, ok Mar 12 04:07:23 tsocks works with LD_PRELOAD. i just stuck that in a wrapper and called the real BrowserServer from the wrapper Mar 12 04:07:29 it worked, but its a little hacky Mar 12 04:08:39 still trying to find ubuntu's bug tracking system Mar 12 04:08:56 still trying to find any language on ubuntu's site which admits that they even have bugs Mar 12 04:09:05 FINALLY Mar 12 04:09:05 http://developer.palm.com/appredirect/?packageid=com.silentbluesystems.prepagesphonelite Mar 12 04:09:40 jacques: ... are you serious? launchpad. Mar 12 04:10:01 oh please no Mar 12 04:10:12 was already there Mar 12 04:10:14 couldn't find shit Mar 12 04:10:28 thought it must be a bad joke Mar 12 04:11:28 OK, I'm to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?advanced=1 Mar 12 04:12:23 it's incredibly slow Mar 12 04:12:31 jacques: ubuntu is popular and wild distributed, that doesn't make bugs well documented Mar 12 04:14:03 haven't found anything relevant searching for loop Mar 12 04:15:06 is eurasia_km (listed in open source packages) for power management? Mar 12 04:15:43 no Mar 12 04:16:58 gah. pmPostInstall.script is longer than 16 characters and the python arfile.py that we use doesn't support ar filenames longer than 16 chars Mar 12 04:17:29 ha Mar 12 04:17:59 whoops Mar 12 04:28:57 how long should the palm logo be up (non glowing) when booting Mar 12 04:29:30 as long as it takes? Mar 12 04:29:51 bug reported https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/537843 Mar 12 04:29:51 5 minutes :/ Mar 12 04:30:49 yeah.. its stuck there Mar 12 04:30:54 my cpu scaling = a fail. Mar 12 04:30:58 either way, what do i do Mar 12 04:31:03 computer wont detect the device Mar 12 04:31:08 lol, well, way to go Mar 12 04:31:32 i may have made it undoctorable.. Mar 12 04:31:50 Decimate: You can not make your phone undoctorable Mar 12 04:31:52 lol Mar 12 04:32:07 well Mar 12 04:32:09 The universal "you" can Mar 12 04:32:12 Decimate: but _you_ can't Mar 12 04:32:15 hardware damage Mar 12 04:32:35 but this doesn't sound like that if it can put the palm logo up Mar 12 04:33:21 computer doesnt detect it. Mar 12 04:33:46 Decimate: First step is usb bootie mode thing, which uh.. works every time, in your case. Mar 12 04:34:19 Decimate: Remove battery, plug in usb, hold volume up, put battery in, turn phone on, let go of volume up when usb logo appears Mar 12 04:34:38 wont go into that mode... tried Mar 12 04:34:47 normally i'd tell you to go wiki something but i drank too much to find out where Mar 12 04:34:55 try again, you probably did it wrong Mar 12 04:35:01 Decimate: recovery page on wik Mar 12 04:35:04 it must Mar 12 04:35:30 unless volume button is broken, or computer/usb is broken Mar 12 04:35:32 If the Palm logo appears, it will go into usb boot mode. I don't think there's an alternate logical explanation. Mar 12 04:35:47 only absurd ones Mar 12 04:35:53 a giraffe licked it and flipped some bits Mar 12 04:36:09 the flash had an SEU when the LHC was running today Mar 12 04:36:19 bpadalino: don't screw with my head, giraffe's are scary as heck Mar 12 04:36:29 fear the black tongue Mar 12 04:36:36 Take out the battery, put it back in. Hold volume button down, plug it in via USB, it should turn on automatically.... That's how i recovered my borked pre. Mar 12 04:36:44 got it into usb Mar 12 04:36:46 i dont wanna doctor :( Mar 12 04:36:52 anyway to delete the cpu-scaling file? Mar 12 04:36:57 then don't screw with your pre's processor Mar 12 04:36:58 lol Mar 12 04:37:12 heh Mar 12 04:37:18 can't have it both ways Mar 12 04:37:33 Decimate: there might be Mar 12 04:37:40 Decimate: restart the phone regular, novacom in Mar 12 04:37:52 Generally you can novacom way before Luna actually starts booting Mar 12 04:38:58 okay, restarted Mar 12 04:39:05 oh wow, glowing palm boot logo Mar 12 04:39:15 wait, it happened once Mar 12 04:39:17 then it stopped Mar 12 04:39:32 * oil waits for "then it exploded" Mar 12 04:39:45 no joke..its gettign really warm Mar 12 04:40:30 Decimate: well, it takes a lot, but in theory your phone could explode Mar 12 04:40:51 Thats what she said Mar 12 04:40:52 ugh, im just gonna doctor Mar 12 04:40:54 whatever. Mar 12 04:41:36 f it .. we'll do it live! Mar 12 04:41:39 effin thing sucks! Mar 12 04:42:00 lol Mar 12 04:43:37 doctoring :( whatta shame. Mar 12 04:43:48 cpu-scaling = never again. Mar 12 04:44:04 maybe i shouldn't have made the minimum speed 500mhz :P Mar 12 04:44:22 I was scaled to 800 for awhile, fun times. Mar 12 04:44:58 is the speed difference apparent Mar 12 04:45:09 or is it an "i think its faster" situation. Mar 12 04:45:39 Decimate: you need to ram boot it, and then lvm mount and then remove the file Mar 12 04:45:51 i benchmarked mine w/ the v8 benchmark... 600 was def faster than 500. but still not sure if i can tell a difference Mar 12 04:46:06 rwhitby: 30% into the doctor too late :( Mar 12 04:46:43 Decimate: I said recovery page on wiki a while ago, before you started the doctor. Mar 12 04:46:55 aww, missed it :/ Mar 12 04:46:57 800 is pretty sickly fast imo, I'm very good at avoiding placebo. I actually _hate_ people that are easily overtaken by it and I go out of my way to avoid it in every aspect of life. Mar 12 04:48:00 like, would i notice a card loading difference? Mar 12 04:48:28 Decimate: biggest differences is launcher scrolling (0 lag) Mar 12 04:48:40 i could only dream. Mar 12 04:48:47 everything else is a minor effect Mar 12 04:48:52 once i doctor, ill go for it again, this time i wont mess with the minimum Mar 12 04:48:55 Decimate: good things are coming tho, let palm do their thing Mar 12 04:49:49 palm should come out with tiny updates weekly with small optimizations Mar 12 04:49:53 and just slowly improve the phone. Mar 12 04:50:10 that certainly sounds easy Mar 12 04:50:10 lol Mar 12 04:50:22 bi-weekly. Mar 12 04:50:30 does that mean every other week ? Mar 12 04:50:36 yes Mar 12 04:50:39 i think..lol. Mar 12 04:50:47 it can mean either ;) Mar 12 04:51:20 oh, ambiguity ... Mar 12 04:51:21 Decimate: they do, they are called "pre alpha", "alpha", and "beta" tests, and are generally tested by Palm developers :P Mar 12 04:51:29 yay for doctoring my phone! Mar 12 04:52:47 my phone has stopped playing sounds for alarms Mar 12 04:52:52 whicn I need it to do Mar 12 04:52:53 zsoc: they need to pull an apple and have everyone leak the, Mar 12 04:52:54 m Mar 12 04:53:06 Or not. Mar 12 05:01:55 lol, i think i doctored to 1.3.5 Mar 12 05:01:56 fml. Mar 12 05:02:06 what Mar 12 05:02:16 just upgrade Mar 12 05:02:18 be happy Mar 12 05:02:30 upgrade? how do i do that... Mar 12 05:02:47 internets Mar 12 05:02:58 im not very good with all this stuff :/ Mar 12 05:03:09 just run the phones update app Mar 12 05:03:13 this is my first time rooting, or whatever you call it Mar 12 05:03:31 halfhalo_T400_: consider your chain yanked. Mar 12 05:03:52 heh Mar 12 05:03:58 you can never be sure.... Mar 12 05:04:05 lol, yeah. Mar 12 05:04:12 * halfhalo_T400_ stabs Decimate in the back with a pitchfork Mar 12 05:04:14 im just pissed i clicked the wrong doctor icon Mar 12 05:04:17 "im not very good with all this stuff :/"? Mar 12 05:04:19 Oh, hey, look at that Mar 12 05:04:27 yet you were just messing with cpu scaling? Mar 12 05:04:34 hell, im doctoring to 1.2 now Mar 12 05:04:37 upgrading takes a single tap Mar 12 05:04:37 oil: I YANKED DAT CHAIN Mar 12 05:04:52 yeah, I wasn't paying attention to the cpu scaling crap Mar 12 05:04:54 1.2 :| Mar 12 05:05:03 what did your pre ever do to you.. Mar 12 05:05:07 lol Mar 12 05:05:16 not like I'm going to let it boot or anything Mar 12 05:05:22 I just needed to wipe it Mar 12 05:05:53 hah, never mind, i did doctor to 1.4 Mar 12 05:09:56 wooot Mar 12 05:10:05 I think my limiter is working Mar 12 05:10:20 limiter? Mar 12 05:10:48 for my reverse-phone app, I have to have a limiter in place on the number of queries it can do Mar 12 05:11:08 anyone here use the facebook app Mar 12 05:11:33 earlier when i opened it, it gave me a message saying there was an update for 1.1.1 for it, and it took me to the app cat, updateless. Mar 12 05:11:47 did it like, 4/5 times when i opened Mar 12 05:11:49 then stopped Mar 12 05:13:30 anyone know what the sockets at /tmp/yapserver.browser* actually do? Mar 12 05:18:31 hm, seems to be how the browser talks to LunaSysMgr Mar 12 05:20:15 crashy crash Mar 12 05:24:08 halfhalo_T400_: reverse phone? Mar 12 05:24:32 reverse phone directory Mar 12 05:24:35 you put in a number Mar 12 05:24:40 it gives an address Mar 12 05:25:40 cool, can it be integrated into address book? that would be slick Mar 12 05:25:51 eventually, yes Mar 12 05:25:59 I just gotta see about the api first Mar 12 05:26:26 grrrrrr Mar 12 05:26:34 doctor does not like my pre right now Mar 12 05:27:13 halfhalo_T400_: what's your data source for reverse? Mar 12 05:27:22 im using whitepages.com Mar 12 05:27:27 heh Mar 12 05:27:31 using the api? Mar 12 05:27:32 I also have an app that does address-phone Mar 12 05:27:40 but thats not been released yet Mar 12 05:28:01 halfhalo_T400_: i worked there for a few years, btw Mar 12 05:28:05 there is a total of 67 unique users of it Mar 12 05:28:07 orly? Mar 12 05:28:32 I hate how the api is limited to 1500 queries a day Mar 12 05:28:33 halfhalo_T400_: and jjore still does Mar 12 05:28:40 and 2 queries a second Mar 12 05:28:41 yes, their TOS sucks ass Mar 12 05:30:34 see, I would be fine with putting an ad for them in the app if it meant a higher api limit Mar 12 05:30:56 because I would rather do that than have to go to a paid source and charge money for the application Mar 12 05:30:57 might be worth contacting and asking Mar 12 05:31:24 or have jjore secretly increase your limit, heh Mar 12 05:31:36 shhhhhh Mar 12 05:34:19 http://developer.palm.com/webChannel/index.php?packageid=com.silentbluesystems.prepagesphonelite Mar 12 05:34:23 thats what I have now Mar 12 05:34:57 its light, but it also has a server enforced limit of 1 query a minute per device Mar 12 05:36:10 and... it looks like jjore isn't here right now Mar 12 05:47:17 well Mar 12 05:47:20 this should be fun Mar 12 05:47:29 downloading profile over x1 Mar 12 05:58:07 hm, newer versions of strace actually know the arm7 sys calls. too bad we have a 4 year old version in ipkg? Mar 12 05:58:45 oh, ipkg-opt has the new one, cool Mar 12 06:03:00 heh Mar 12 06:07:09 cxreg: optware for the win Mar 12 06:10:36 destinal-wirc: strace with the old one is awful Mar 12 06:10:56 its night and day Mar 12 06:11:19 ok Mar 12 06:11:33 dropped the time required between queries to 30 seconds Mar 12 07:40:00 rwhitby: you around? Mar 12 07:40:07 jhojho: yep Mar 12 07:40:45 has there been any reports of the ondemand or smartreflex patches completely killing a phone Mar 12 07:40:55 I have not heard of any but wanted to make sure. Mar 12 07:41:18 no, but it did kill my neighbor Mar 12 07:41:23 i'm not talking about bricking but where the phone is completely dead Mar 12 07:42:18 jhojho: I've lost track of all the different CPU modifying patches completely. Mar 12 07:42:35 technically bricking is when the phone is completely dead Mar 12 07:42:39 someone needs to create a wiki page with all of them listed, and all the hard data associated with each Mar 12 07:42:43 to be rendered a paperweight as it were Mar 12 07:44:14 rwhitby: that would be a good idea Mar 12 07:44:30 acydlord: the "noob" definition of bricking =P Mar 12 07:46:30 rwhitby: I think all the patches/apps that relate to cpu should be in dangerous Mar 12 07:46:37 category Mar 12 07:46:43 jhojho: they are Mar 12 07:48:36 i mean what caj and number1pete are working on Mar 12 07:50:41 sorry had to switch APs Mar 12 07:51:05 there are actually not that many versions of the patches/apps Mar 12 07:51:59 there's the stuff I put in (which relates to what number1pete was doing), unixpsycho's straight lunasysmgr sed, clipcarl's program and now the 720/800mhz patches Mar 12 07:53:14 hopefully the 720/800 patch will be posted soon. it would be good to have more eyeballs on the patch rather than just a compiled kernel Mar 12 07:53:48 how does 800Mhz work safely ? Mar 12 07:54:37 jacques, probably on a similar principle to nuclear reactors Mar 12 07:54:47 jhojho: my proposal to them has been a custom feed for the beta testing. Mar 12 07:55:57 rwhitby: that'll work for the testing period. i'm thinking about afterwards. as you said in your post on precentral. people will blindly install this stuff without reading Mar 12 07:56:09 http://forums.precentral.net/2301442-post630.html was my response Mar 12 07:56:14 I saw that Mar 12 07:58:19 I guess ppl just figure they'll exchange their phones for free if they burn them Mar 12 07:59:15 the authors took it as a personal affront that I wouldn't put the patches directly into the default Preware feeds. Mar 12 07:59:47 bwaahh what, the overclocking ones? haha Mar 12 08:00:06 "click here to make your phone unbootable or ignite" Mar 12 08:01:09 so far, 64-bit widk is going well Mar 12 08:02:00 jacques: that's good news Mar 12 08:03:23 rwhitby: yeah, sb2 pulls in the 32-bit libs needed by the toolchains Mar 12 08:04:08 I'm doing make stage on glib-2.0 now Mar 12 08:06:08 rwhitby: I didn't see the post where they were unhappy that you were not putting it in the standard feeds Mar 12 08:06:37 http://toucharcade.com/2010/03/11/gdc-2010-sword-sworcery-ep-the-most-amazing-game-ive-seen-at-gdc/ I dont really play games but this is impressive Mar 12 08:07:55 jhojho: that got deleted, cause I called them on it. Mar 12 08:08:03 and continued in email Mar 12 08:08:36 ah. they seem to be really touchy. I think i saw a post where they were essentially calling all the other cpu patches crap Mar 12 08:10:04 is anyone who posts to the precentral forums > 14 years old ? Mar 12 08:10:11 heh Mar 12 08:10:18 rwhitby excepted Mar 12 08:10:25 heh Mar 12 08:10:42 omg. this is demented but awesome http://toucharcade.com/2009/10/22/exclusive-five-minutes-to-kill-yourself-hands-on-preview-with-video/ Mar 12 08:10:49 every single article has like three "first" posts in the comments too Mar 12 08:10:57 love the isometric infographic look Mar 12 08:11:58 yeah nice. there are some talented ppl out there Mar 12 08:13:01 oh hey, there's a flash version online Mar 12 08:14:37 I wish flash would kill itself. Mar 12 08:28:26 rwhitby: ping Mar 12 08:28:32 dBsooner: hi Mar 12 08:28:38 rwhitby: evening sir. Mar 12 08:28:45 or morning here. Mar 12 08:28:48 230am Mar 12 08:28:56 Anyway.. Question on Meta Doc. Mar 12 08:30:02 If I enable FIRSTUSE_WIFI, do I need to leave TOUCH_RAN_FIRST_USE disabled? Mar 12 08:30:20 with FIRSTUSE_WIFI allow me to enter my WPA key for the wifi? Mar 12 08:31:08 s/with/will/ Mar 12 08:31:09 dBsooner meant: will FIRSTUSE_WIFI allow me to enter my WPA key for the wifi? Mar 12 08:33:48 rwhitby: you still with me? Mar 12 08:39:26 dBsooner: I'm not sure firstuse wifi works any more Mar 12 08:39:41 ok Mar 12 08:39:42 in fact, with touch ran first use it's superfluous Mar 12 08:39:48 ok Mar 12 08:39:54 so just use TOUCH Mar 12 08:39:57 since you just set up your wifi and then run first use Mar 12 08:40:02 yeah Mar 12 08:40:18 I thought META doc downloaded doctor automatically? Mar 12 08:47:24 nope Mar 12 08:47:49 that's the intelligence test for using it Mar 12 08:53:12 rwhitby: so far I haven't found any issues with 64-bit widk Mar 12 08:54:16 rwhitby: I am also having an issue with it accepting "CARRIER = sprint" Mar 12 08:54:28 it won't add ${CARRIER} to the file Mar 12 08:54:36 and it keeps things i am putting "CARRIER = wr" Mar 12 08:54:50 s/things/thinking/ Mar 12 08:54:50 dBsooner meant: and it keeps thinking i am putting "CARRIER = wr" Mar 12 08:56:50 rwhitby: I have even commented out CARRER = and issued: make CARRIER=sprint Mar 12 08:56:51 no good Mar 12 09:01:37 rwhitby: any ideas? Mar 12 09:01:49 what command are you typing? Mar 12 09:02:16 make Mar 12 09:02:28 type "make all-sprint" Mar 12 09:02:52 ahhh.. it's changed. 10-4. Mar 12 09:03:04 there swhe goes Mar 12 09:03:55 all of this because I accidentally Orange+tapped my PDF Viewer app Mar 12 09:04:00 so now it doesn't operate properly. Mar 12 09:04:18 after a reboot or luna restart, the icon is missing in the launcher and you can't launch from PDF fiel either. Mar 12 09:04:27 you have to run a luna rescan.. Mar 12 09:19:35 make staging-armv7 died on e_dbus Mar 12 09:21:51 has anyone tried ebag's gps hack on a pixi? Mar 12 09:42:33 hmm i have that error after reboot again 503's, 404's, wget server returned error etc Mar 12 09:43:51 iSmite: yeah, ipkg3.preware.org is refusing connections for some reason. I've changed DNS back to the new server. Should work as soon as DNS propagates. Mar 12 09:44:03 thanks Mar 12 09:44:54 Sometimes you just can't win. The mirror server works flawlessly while the main server is offline, and just before we were going to change back to the new server the mirror server starts refusing connections (and the admin of that box is asleep) Mar 12 09:45:28 it doesn't bother me it's just nice to know it's not a problem my end Mar 12 09:48:38 i wanted the pictureit app but it says unavailable here, is it a paid app does anyone know or free and us only Mar 12 09:53:22 grr its doing that thing it does periodically where it loses 3g for no reason and it wont come back on its so annoying Mar 12 09:58:18 rwhitby: thats a strange symptom Mar 12 10:18:30 * bhuey crosses his fingers for a bug fix update to 1.4 and for more Pre sales Mar 12 10:18:56 because both Android and the iPhone annoy me Mar 12 14:23:31 <_aa_> hi Mar 12 15:15:55 hi everybody Mar 12 15:44:10 #webos Mar 12 15:45:22 #webos-internals Mar 12 15:53:43 how do i check if Rod is online? Mar 12 15:56:10 number1pete: not unless he's an insomniac. it's 2:26am there Mar 12 15:56:36 you can ask here if you have a question, or ping him with the comment and he'll get it when he wakes up. Mar 12 15:59:27 what country? Mar 12 16:49:34 hi Mar 12 16:51:52 Does anybody have an already meta doctored webOS they can shoot me? Mar 12 16:55:52 meta doctor is very easy to build Mar 12 16:57:02 Except I don't have anything setup on this work machine. Mar 12 16:58:32 Also, if anybody has worked with the PDK, I've got a paying job for you. Mar 12 17:06:06 reality9110: the Palm PDK? Mar 12 17:06:52 until now I only worked with the WOIDK Mar 12 17:06:55 :) Mar 12 17:07:05 what the matter, what do you need? Mar 12 17:09:34 Big cheers for the end of getfilelist errors :) Mar 12 17:21:31 damn I hope apple doesn't buy palm. Mar 12 17:21:59 is there any suggestion they might? Mar 12 17:22:15 it wouldn't make much sense Mar 12 17:22:35 no. but if they did, they would have the patents to sue the rest of the smart-phone world into oblivion Mar 12 17:22:38 that's not the apple way ;) Mar 12 17:22:45 They don't buy up very many small companies Mar 12 17:23:24 I'm really disturbed by this HTC lawsuit Mar 12 17:23:50 I wouldn't be Mar 12 17:24:13 * nt4cats grumbles Mar 12 17:24:15 Apple is running into some future cash flow problems, typically when companies start seeing sharp decline in their future they then look to the patent wars Mar 12 17:24:23 Jonathan Schwartz wrote a good article on this the other day Mar 12 17:24:58 granted he ruined Sun, he did do some nice things at his company before which had a lot of patents NEXT used, and he also was there to ward off MS requesting royalties for every download of OpenOffice Mar 12 17:25:14 http://jonathanischwartz.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal/ Mar 12 17:25:18 a good read Mar 12 17:25:26 cash flow problems? like when every single person in the world has an iphone they can't grow their share any further? Mar 12 17:25:30 ok reading Mar 12 17:26:31 like when every developer is alienated they can't get their cut of appstore $? Mar 12 17:28:12 yeah, apple is getting really crazy with the app store Mar 12 17:28:42 patent wars show a companies fear of another's success (hence JS's article is covering this) Mar 12 17:29:10 so Apple's suit against HTC only shows Apple fears where HTC and Android are going, which is basically going to be ruin of their market share they hoped to get long term Mar 12 17:31:57 http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/11/androids-american-market-share-soars-winmo-pays-the-price/ Mar 12 17:32:08 i don't know about ruin Mar 12 17:32:15 well not right this momemnt Mar 12 17:32:26 perhaps down the line but not today and maybe not even this year Mar 12 17:34:04 Android is getting close to 10% if I recall correctly, Apple is only at about 15% market share. The problem is Apple is going to have a difficult time converting a set of phones that Android can accomodate Mar 12 17:34:44 landscape hardware keyboards, portrait hardware keyboards, soft-key-candybars, 9-key candybars, 9-keyclams Mar 12 17:49:13 essentially what Palm has argued too is that all phones eventually become smart phones. So apple's current form factor alienates themselves from hold much more market share than what they currently have. Mar 12 17:49:19 holding* Mar 12 18:11:14 I wish webos had a screen rotation lock gesture Mar 12 18:11:34 sometimes it would be nice not to have the screen autorotate Mar 12 18:14:27 there's a patch for that Mar 12 18:14:49 But I think its targeted for specific apps Mar 12 18:20:40 slider lock orientation for browser Mar 12 18:20:41 is tasty Mar 12 18:20:48 although, that doesnt fix everything else :/ Mar 12 18:23:43 I have a patch request... No idea if this sort of thing is possible: I noticed somebody created a patch where you can delete an email straight from the notification.. I was wondering if it were possible to create a patch where if you swipe away the email notification, it can automatically mark that email as read? Mar 12 18:26:27 jhojho: the way we should do it is a service that disables the accelerometer entirely. Mar 12 18:26:40 so it locks rotation for all apps Mar 12 18:27:18 like i dunno, accelservice Mar 12 18:27:34 egaudet_work: touche :P Mar 12 18:28:28 although i don't think it supports 0 frequency (i.e. stopped) and needs to be re-written Mar 12 18:29:06 also it would break all accel apps/games Mar 12 18:29:28 stopping orientation could be a framework patch to stop orientation events globally Mar 12 18:35:26 could it just have a thug GUI frontend for toggling it? Mar 12 18:35:36 egaudet_work: ah, a framework patch could work too Mar 12 18:35:40 didn't consider that Mar 12 18:36:17 FuMan: either one would need a GUI which wouldn't be that difficult Mar 12 18:36:39 either way, +1 from me for wanting it Mar 12 18:36:52 id say 75 percent of the time rotation occurs, its not when I want it to O_o Mar 12 18:41:45 It would work great to have that toggle in the app menu Mar 12 18:42:05 woops, not app menu, the phone(?) menu Mar 12 18:43:43 does terminal work with 1.4 yet? Mar 12 18:47:15 no Mar 12 18:55:27 destinal: how would you add a custom gesture tho? Mar 12 18:55:52 custom gesture? Mar 12 18:55:58 actually that's not that important. i would be happy with a way to stop autorotate Mar 12 18:56:19 my original statement was for a custom gesture to stop autorotate Mar 12 18:56:58 oh, well custom gestures would probably require custom hid plugins to talk to the input device hardware -- hadn't thought about that part Mar 12 18:57:20 also wanted a webos app or at least mobile interface for vark.com Mar 12 19:04:49 hi, guys Mar 12 19:13:40 anyone played with modifying the hosts file to block ads? Mar 12 19:13:55 hey guys what up Mar 12 19:13:59 I'm like dbsooner Mar 12 19:14:07 irc from mah fone Mar 12 19:14:12 wirc really owns Mar 12 19:14:27 I totally had a question for the webosinternals officials Mar 12 19:14:38 but it completely slipped my mind, soo....... yeah Mar 12 19:14:57 I'm on my way into the mpls airport, humphrey terminal Mar 12 19:15:02 FuMan - yes Mar 12 19:15:06 flyin to saaaaaan diegooo! Mar 12 19:15:15 hey! someone's alive! Mar 12 19:15:42 yokken: I served with dbsooner, I knew dbsooner, dbsooner was a friend of mine. You sir are no dbsooner. Mar 12 19:15:48 NightRise: howd it go? Mar 12 19:16:06 dbsooner installs cable at peoples' houses Mar 12 19:16:15 and sits in his truck and goes on webos irc Mar 12 19:16:21 I am just like dbsooner Mar 12 19:16:58 I believe it Mar 12 19:17:13 it's still an option in WebOSQI Mar 12 19:17:27 yokken: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senator,_you're_no_Jack_Kennedy Mar 12 19:18:02 hrm, might have to fiddle with that soon Mar 12 19:18:07 probably save some load time on certain pages Mar 12 19:18:14 lol Mar 12 19:18:24 dude I'm totally just fuckin around Mar 12 19:18:27 I really am on my phone Mar 12 19:18:35 I'm power user'in it up Mar 12 19:18:35 Fuman: that's the easy way. I actually use dnsmasq Mar 12 19:19:55 it can block some ads in apps too Mar 12 19:20:25 I'll leave the ethics of that to you Mar 12 19:20:26 there a guide for that? Mar 12 19:20:34 I'm out guys Mar 12 19:20:48 hosts? Mar 12 19:21:50 dnsmasq Mar 12 19:22:04 here is a host script: http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/228448-ifup-ifdown-events.html#post2295831 Mar 12 19:23:15 I don't think there is a dnsmasq guide but it's fairly easy Mar 12 19:23:36 danke Mar 12 19:24:36 guys, how do you type umlautes? With orange key? Mar 12 19:25:08 FuMan, if you go with dnsmasq you can use http://pgl.yoyo.org/adservers/serverlist.php?hostformat=dnsmasq&showintro=0&startdate[day]=&startdate[month]=&startdate[year]=&mimetype=plaintext Mar 12 19:25:13 shura0: where? use the sym button? Mar 12 19:25:33 oh, thank you Mar 12 19:28:28 gkatsev, I want to clarify one thing. When I press sym and "U" for ex. then I see popup menu with some symbols. I have English locale. Is on German locale the same? Mar 12 19:29:36 no clue about german locale, but i would assume it would be the same Mar 12 19:30:38 hm Mar 12 19:36:08 no Mar 12 19:36:18 it's probably different on German locale Mar 12 19:36:32 we hav sym u => ü is selected Mar 12 19:36:43 in France it might be some other letter Mar 12 19:38:11 oh, thank you Mar 12 19:43:51 is there any way to hit escape in terminus? Mar 12 19:54:52 each locale pulls their alternate chars (symbol popup) from its own resource Mar 12 19:54:58 I return Mar 12 19:56:35 from /usr/palm/frameworks/mojo/submissions/XXX/resources//alternatechars_*.json files Mar 12 20:01:09 egaudet_work, is it possible to add my own locale? Mar 12 20:01:22 I need Russian Mar 12 20:02:23 I'm not sure how you would add it within the framework so that you could specify that as your locale, I guess it would be a framework patch Mar 12 20:03:00 you can use the virtual keyboard patch which offers customizeable themes, others have made alternate language themes Mar 12 20:03:40 this thread may be of use to you: http://forums.precentral.net/webos-internals/217491-virtual-keyboard-cyrillic-any-other-non-official-lay-outs.html Mar 12 20:04:33 if you don't want to use the VKB you can edit your current locale's alternatchars_*.json file(s) that I referenced above to add Mar 12 20:09:04 thank you. I've tried virtual keyboard and found that is inconvenient Mar 12 20:09:23 So, I want to use hardware keyboard Mar 12 20:09:42 thank you for your help, I'll try it tomorrow Mar 12 20:11:14 shura0: Also note that a theme for the VKB could be made so that it is in effect just a symbol keyboard (and thus render much faster with text only and no images)... and nvm Mar 12 20:22:45 anyone compile the new kernel sources yet? Mar 12 20:36:29 dtzWill: ping Mar 12 21:17:40 morning Mar 12 21:17:46 hey uNiXpSyChO Mar 12 21:25:08 mornin Mar 12 21:25:26 rwhitby: how does the patch approval process work? just wondering why it takes so long for them to go to preware after submitted. and who checks them? Mar 12 21:26:19 Decimate: lets blame dBsooner Mar 12 21:27:27 rwhitby: hey Mar 12 21:28:14 d Mar 12 21:28:44 Decimate: depends on the patch. If it's implemented the same as lots of others, then it will be very quick (basically the next time dBsooner gets some free time). Mar 12 21:28:46 zsoc_wirc: well i was hoping maybe i could help out by checking out patches to approve... Mar 12 21:28:51 i guess no one compiled new kernel sources yet :-( Mar 12 21:29:14 Decimate: if it's controversial, or requires new patching technology to be able to be non-conflicting and remove safely, then it takes much much longer. Mar 12 21:29:50 uNiXpSyChO: not that I've seen. But I do want to get our autobuilder into the habit of building kernels Mar 12 21:30:00 Decimate: I believe the 'testing' is on the hands of the submitter. but like rod says.. not all patches are implemented equally Mar 12 21:30:38 Decimate: often, there's a delay because no-one actually submits the patch ... Mar 12 21:30:56 uNiXpSyChO: how's the OPP patch looking for 1.4 ? Mar 12 21:31:11 uNiXpSyChO: and what's the real story behind Jeff's hardware problems? Mar 12 21:31:23 rwhitby: cool. webOS 1.3.5.x kernel compiled fine and worked fine. but 1.4 kernel is missing stuff Mar 12 21:31:56 :-\ Mar 12 21:32:32 uNiXpSyChO: best thing is to report the missing bits to the open source email address at palm, and Cc: chuq Mar 12 21:32:47 rwhitby: i believe his bricked his phone with a software upgrade that went amuck and problem blew away the bootloader. not sure exactly Mar 12 21:33:33 uNiXpSyChO: so he didn't try the last resort bootloader recovery method? Mar 12 21:33:35 rwhitby: are there any plans to make an option to add a package to a list instead of hitting install, and then go to another, add it to a list, etc, then mass install via preware? would be useful with patches. Mar 12 21:33:37 jacques: pong Mar 12 21:33:43 rwhitby: chuq? what is his email so i can copy him. Mar 12 21:34:34 webosinternals.org still down? Mar 12 21:34:38 rwhitby: I am getting .config:391:warning: trying to assign nonexistent symbol BATTERY_FASTPATH Mar 12 21:34:42 and others Mar 12 21:35:34 the kernel runs but something is missing that is hanging up java during boot Mar 12 21:36:55 other than that the OPP6 and OPP7 patches work great. Mar 12 21:37:38 Abyssul: the server has been up for well over 24 hours now Mar 12 21:37:47 dtzWill: howdy, I was building xorg-server last night, but it stopped on libxcb Mar 12 21:38:09 I cant connect. It keeps displaying the "website is down" page Mar 12 21:38:13 how am I supposed to use the exampleservice? Mar 12 21:38:17 jacques: sure. python not working out so well? Mar 12 21:38:20 The www.webos-internals.org, www.preware.org, install.preware.org and get.preware.org sites are offline from Tuesday 9 Mar 2010 23:00 UTC for up to 24 hours. Mar 12 21:38:23 copy it in to cross compile packages? Mar 12 21:38:44 dtzWill: OK that's a known issue ? is there a known workaround? Mar 12 21:38:52 dtzWill: it is indeed a python issue Mar 12 21:39:08 Had to clean my cache Mar 12 21:39:20 jacques: well one other person had it, and now you, so i'll call it 'known' now if it wasn't before. Mar 12 21:39:40 dtzWill: but you don't have the issue? Mar 12 21:40:01 anything unusual about your build env? you are using widk to build, right? Mar 12 21:40:29 jacques: yeah i'm using widk, but not on the distro given, and it's 64bit. Mar 12 21:41:28 dtzWill: which distro? I am trying out 64-bit ubuntu server 9.10, so far everything except for this has worked Mar 12 21:42:04 jacques: so few thoughts. the reason it builds python is my host python wasn't working in sb2, and it seemed better/cleaner to have a fresh known-working python in sb2 then try to devise a solution to make it work in general. maybe that was a mistake, idk Mar 12 21:42:24 jacques: so one solution is to remove the python from the DEPENDS on libxcb and see what happens. I seem to recall that working when ran into this before Mar 12 21:42:42 dtzWill: IIRC when I built that package I didn't have this issue - I should look back at what I did Mar 12 21:43:01 jacques: right. so just remove the python dep, and let it use your host. I think that will work. Mar 12 21:43:15 AFAIK python built and staged already, so removing it from DEPENDS would have no effect Mar 12 21:43:34 jacques: another thing, was that the other guy, despite building python correctly, it ended up in some SNAFU where it was /still/ using host python because his PATH env var had /usr/bin/ before /usr/local/bin. Mar 12 21:43:43 you mean remove python from staging so the libxcb build doesn't find it? Mar 12 21:44:01 jacques: so one thought, and if this fixes it for you I'll hardcode the PATH in the tree, is to modify your path to have /usr/local/bin _first_ so it uses the right python Mar 12 21:44:26 echo $PATH /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games Mar 12 21:44:26 jacques: oh I thought python wasn't building for you. if it builds then nevermind removing it as a depenency, at least for now. Mar 12 21:44:51 python built and staged - libxcb's use of python in the build process is failing Mar 12 21:45:23 jacques: hrm. and that's when you're in sb2? can you run libxcb build, and see what python it's using? I think epv mentioned that he removed/renamed his host python and it made things work Mar 12 21:46:02 jacques: I'm sorry that I don't have the best answer for you... not having it happen to me makes me dependent on you/others to help me find a good solution, which before you/epv hadn't happened :) Mar 12 21:46:10 dtzWill: FWIW http://webos.pastebin.com/eEcZDvUx Mar 12 21:46:15 jacques: ty, looking Mar 12 21:47:42 yes those "cannot find platform dependent libarries" is the issue that everyone with this problem was reporting Mar 12 21:47:48 dtzWill: np. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't an artifact of my 64-bit env Mar 12 21:48:15 btw i'm rebuilding mine completely from scratch to make sure it doesn't happen here :). haven't done that in a while, maybe somehow it doesn't work as I remember. (as an aside) Mar 12 21:48:36 so within sb2 if you just run 'python' does it complain about the not finding platfrom libraies? Mar 12 21:49:12 bah nvm that doesn't seem to be the oracle i was hoping it would be Mar 12 21:50:02 jacques: btw (related but not to build issues) my group has made good progress with getting proper keyboard support via xkb :D I'll be adding that into webos-internals' git in the coming days. Mar 12 21:50:16 dtzWill: it does complain: http://webos.pastebin.com/0Z44a3Z6 Mar 12 21:50:33 alright and 'which python' is /usr/local/bin/python ? Mar 12 21:51:10 so, I take it there have been some bumps in the road as far as the server migration are concerned? Mar 12 21:51:33 dtzWill: oh interesting - which python is /usr/bin/python and the PATH in sb2 DOES have /usr/bin before /usr/local/bin Mar 12 21:51:51 the patch I pasted before wasn't in sb2 - I didn't think they'd be different Mar 12 21:52:29 jacques: ah, yes. I think it might be due to PATH when you run sb2-init, although I haven't tested that. regardless, can you do me a favor (I'd do it, but to get it to you would require pushing a commit I can't test for effectiveness which I'd like to avoid) Mar 12 21:52:31 /usr/local/bin/python in sb2 does NOT complain Mar 12 21:52:34 my pre doesn't want me to overclock it. Mar 12 21:52:47 jacques: add something to the effect of PATH=/usr/local/bin/:$$PATH \ Mar 12 21:52:52 who not Mar 12 21:52:57 jacques: to the makefile for libxcb above the configure line? Mar 12 21:53:06 jacques: +- the quoting or escaping that's needed Mar 12 21:53:23 s/who/why Mar 12 21:53:27 dtzWill: this seems to be potentially an issue affecting more packages Mar 12 21:53:49 jacques: I agree, I'm not sure why one would want PATH that way within sb2. seems always the wrong decision lol Mar 12 21:53:49 dtzWill: I'm going to try a few things in the sb2 shell Mar 12 21:53:58 agreed Mar 12 21:54:03 jacques: if you think you can fix this overall, that would be wonderful too. Mar 12 21:54:07 let me look a bit further into it Mar 12 21:54:08 hrm... so I am seeing on twitter that everything is back online and yet I still can't get to it.. maybe my DNS is just way behind Mar 12 21:54:18 I'll let you know what I find Mar 12 21:54:35 jacques: what's interesting is by default /my/ sb2 path isn't setup that way. Mar 12 21:55:01 * rwhitby bbl Mar 12 21:55:01 jacques: as to *why*? idk. but yeah good call on fixing this overall, let me know what/if you find something Mar 12 21:55:09 please :) Mar 12 21:55:29 it's just weird: /sb2/wrappers:/sb2/scripts:/home/fontenot/.scratchbox2/armv7/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games:/sbin:/usr/sbin:/home/packages/palm/cross-compile/toolchain/arm-2007q3/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/libc/bin:/home/packages/palm/cross-compile/toolchain/arm-2007q3/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/libc/usr/bin:/home/packages/palm/cross-compile/toolchain/arm-2007q3/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/libc/usr/l Mar 12 21:55:36 /usr/bin is in there twice Mar 12 21:55:38 rwhitby: waitt! Mar 12 21:55:49 can someone help me with a strange occurance? I can't figure out where my /media/internal disk space is going. Mar 12 21:55:56 root@palm-webos-device:/media/internal# du -d0 -h . Mar 12 21:55:56 2.5G . Mar 12 21:55:58 hmm that paste didn't quite work Mar 12 21:56:00 sorry for split line Mar 12 21:56:35 oh no tht is the correct paste Mar 12 21:56:51 dtzWill: anything super large in there? Mar 12 21:57:21 http://webos.pastebin.com/FCk4rStw Mar 12 21:57:30 okay guys. i want to delete a file causing my pre not to boot...but i can't login via novaterm or anything because well...it doesn't boot. Mar 12 21:57:38 any suggestions on how i can delete it without doctoring? Mar 12 21:57:54 Decimate: I thought you doctored last night? Mar 12 21:58:09 i attempted again :| Mar 12 21:58:14 attempted what? Mar 12 21:58:20 cpu-scaling. Mar 12 21:58:22 lol Mar 12 21:58:27 i need to delete etc/event.d/cpu-scaling Mar 12 21:58:46 well... if you can't get into the phone because it won't boot to a point that allows access... Mar 12 21:58:55 I can't think of any other options... Mar 12 21:59:16 download / boot to install ramdisk ? Mar 12 21:59:23 i got it to glow Mar 12 21:59:26 then it stopped Mar 12 21:59:29 now i restarted Mar 12 21:59:34 now it didnt even get to that point Mar 12 21:59:39 dtzWill: seems there is some large files (or lots of small ones) in your USP partition Mar 12 21:59:42 could be hidden files Mar 12 22:00:02 and aren't there cached e-mails and whatnot in there too? Mar 12 22:00:14 or did those stay put and not move to /media/internal? Mar 12 22:00:55 I really hope that size discrepdency isn't due to internal fragmentation Mar 12 22:01:04 by really hope I mean I can't see how that's possible :/ Mar 12 22:01:32 and hidden files? what.. oh this is fat isn't it? maybe there's something going on I don't know about. I *am* assuming du finds all the files. Mar 12 22:01:49 doctor number 2 Mar 12 22:02:02 what's strange is ...yesterday... I had a good 3.5GB free which matches things properly. bah this is silly Mar 12 22:02:09 I meant the large (or lots of small) files may be hidden and therefore you don't see them when you mount it in USB mode Mar 12 22:02:28 ssh in with winscp and check it out. Mar 12 22:02:30 it is a FAT partition so it "could" be fragmentation Mar 12 22:02:53 cryptk|work: I'm not mounting anything in usb mode. Mar 12 22:02:58 cryptk|work: that was run from my pre :/ Mar 12 22:03:20 yeah, so it looks like you have a bunch of files in there.. Mar 12 22:03:25 hmm, well that's a bummer. but but df claims it's almost DOUBLE the filesize lol Mar 12 22:03:59 eeew, I see what you are talking about now dtzWill Mar 12 22:04:36 right, they're disagreeing by a _huge_ amount and I'm not particularly clear on what could be causing that behavior Mar 12 22:04:45 hence my appeal to you all :D Mar 12 22:06:48 the diference dtzWill no clue Mar 12 22:07:45 cryptk|work: well no worries, ty for helping :) Mar 12 22:09:31 dtzWill: you are running up-to-date preware and ipkgservice ? Mar 12 22:10:13 jacques: conceivably no. I should be running the latest on the testing feed within ~1 day. I can double check Mar 12 22:11:00 im trying to doctor and it keeps freezing at 4% :/ Mar 12 22:11:15 that should be new enough - some older versions had a bug where they could make huge feed files Mar 12 22:11:21 okay and this is strange. after locking up my pre the other day, it started up in some partial-first-run mode--every app acts like I've never run it before; calendar prompted me which accounts (but it knew the ones I had before). not to inundate with information, but seems cooncidence Mar 12 22:11:33 err seems might be related, _not_ coincidence Mar 12 22:12:15 bah I should just doctor it... I probably broke something :D Mar 12 22:12:31 oh interesting i do have an update for pacakge manager service Mar 12 22:12:40 easy way to see what version I presently ahve? Mar 12 22:14:10 several. preware will tell you in the installed packages section Mar 12 22:14:23 device info should tell you in software section Mar 12 22:14:44 jacques: ty. I ended up ipkg'ing it up, but good to know there's a perhaps easier way Mar 12 22:15:16 bah i'm running 42 and latest is 43. changelog about big files pegs it as 38 Mar 12 22:15:20 sorry - device info tells preware but not ipkgservice version Mar 12 22:15:44 still not clear on how exactly du isn't picking up these cache files... Mar 12 22:18:04 I wouldn't normally ask this in here but any thoughts on what to include to get a linkedlist for pdk stuff? Mar 12 22:21:18 Ahh got it Mar 12 22:27:58 FWIW: upgrading package manager service+rebooting fixed my issue. not sure of cause, but I guess it's resolved. Mar 12 22:28:29 which fixed it? upgrading or rebooting? :-) Mar 12 22:29:38 dtzWill: I was trying to fugre why I didn't hit the libxcb issue with my x-server build - turns out I had configured for absolute minimum deps, so I never built libxcb Mar 12 22:43:55 jacques: i'm not sure. just did both to be sure. Mar 12 22:44:05 jacques: well libxcb is useful :D, we should have it ;) Mar 12 22:49:21 dtzWill: yeah we should. tho now it's complaining about needing xsltproc from libxslt to build libxcb Mar 12 22:50:26 you might have used the native version of that Mar 12 22:51:28 jacques: on my host? conceivably. many of the dep tree built is admiteddly reactive to things breaking. not the best, but when there are entirely way too many packages it became not super attractive to hand verify that each worked. Mar 12 22:51:54 jacques: well adding that probably isn't an issue, wonder why you see this and others didn't. Mar 12 22:52:29 I have a feeling installing that on ubuntu server would pull in all the X packages Mar 12 22:54:03 hmm, strangely no, it only wants a couple of packages Mar 12 22:54:24 regardless we should either built it in sb2 or document it as a dependency Mar 12 22:54:35 bbl btw, keep me posted :) Mar 12 22:56:38 I just installed it native - build in sb2 would probably be better tho Mar 12 22:57:05 heh, now it's complaining about xcb-proto Mar 12 22:57:45 hmm, which should already be staged ... Mar 12 22:58:29 oh, it's not because it had same python problem Mar 12 22:58:37 which I now know how to workaround Mar 12 23:01:02 now "No package 'pthread-stubs' found" Mar 12 23:01:29 ah just a missing DEPENDS maybe Mar 12 23:02:21 oh ignore the last about the deps - my working in the sb2 shell is ignoring DEPENDS, they are both there Mar 12 23:02:40 I guess it was xcb-proto which failed to build first Mar 12 23:03:56 and as the python error is identical to libxcb, I confused them Mar 12 23:05:54 libxcb building now Mar 12 23:07:17 oh heh someone else going through all the build fun i did the othr day :) Mar 12 23:08:18 libxcb staged - phew! Mar 12 23:10:33 I've seen this in several sb2 configure runs, and it just looks wrong for some reason "hecking the maximum length of command line arguments... 3458764513820540925" Mar 12 23:11:00 s/he/che/ Mar 12 23:11:00 jacques meant: I've seen this in several sb2 configure runs, and it just looks wrong for some reason "checking the maximum length of command line arguments... 3458764513820540925" Mar 12 23:14:28 deps seem to not be working right in nonworking Mar 12 23:14:33 DEPENDS that is Mar 12 23:39:34 http://www.palm.com/us/products/phones/developer-phones.html Mar 12 23:42:37 very nice. Mar 12 23:42:51 now, how to get a pre plus on sprint :-) Mar 12 23:43:22 jacques: not very nice at all. it's US only, and no unlocked devices. In fact, it sucks. Mar 12 23:44:15 I'm sorry. you're right about the unlocked think :-\ Mar 13 00:07:14 OK I finally built a Xsdl binary Mar 13 00:19:13 rod's the man behind the @webosinternals twitter, right? Mar 13 00:22:14 yep Mar 13 00:24:43 shit... i just went to upgrade Preware and accidentally tapped the Remove button Mar 13 00:24:50 oops Mar 13 00:25:00 yea... those buttons are too close together Mar 13 00:33:03 are the GSM dev phones unlocked? Mar 13 00:33:48 All the way turnt up Mar 13 00:45:16 meh Mar 13 00:45:47 music apps are broken on my pre Mar 13 00:46:31 weird messages Mar 13 00:46:33 palm-webos-device user.warning mediaserver: PIPELINE: MediaPipeline::teardown: Unable to remove the bus watch source of id 54 Mar 13 00:46:46 * mjkjr is backing up USB on Pixi to transfer to new Pre =) Mar 13 01:04:38 * mjkjr see's the pre is only at 1.3.1, have to wait for update before reinstalling everything =( Mar 13 01:08:33 Anyone else able to download the FB Beta Mar 13 01:09:27 rwhitby: can you create x11/xkeyboard-config.git for me when you have a second? Modifying that to have xkb stuff for the pre Mar 13 01:25:50 hi there Mar 13 01:26:35 errr git.webos-internals.org---is that running on a mirror or something? Mar 13 01:26:40 the web interface I mean. Mar 13 01:27:03 dtzWill: no, but you may need to force-reload the page to force the varnish cache to update Mar 13 01:27:15 So... WebOS doesnt get a Broadband.gov app? lame... Mar 13 01:27:15 although I'm not sure that's behind the varnish cache actually Mar 13 01:27:33 dtzWill: but it's definitely back on the main machine Mar 13 01:27:47 well I can clone stuff of the git and it's not showing up in the web interface. it's not a big deal, but was just surprised. I thought gitweb was instant Mar 13 01:28:04 err I mean the server definitely has it by evidenced by a fresh clone having it. Mar 13 01:29:42 for ref http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=x11/xserver.git;a=summary shows last change 3 days ago but http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=x11/xserver.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/master shows 24 hours haha Mar 13 01:29:56 anyway not a deal at all, just was curious since it wasn't expected Mar 13 01:30:33 * mjkjr 1.4.0 unpacking =) Mar 13 01:31:21 dtzWill: I'll talk to our varnish admin about it :-) Mar 13 01:31:43 i tried to build WebOS_Internals_PDK on my debian lenny amd64 host. i get some errors and wanted to ask if there is a solution for them :) first, when doing the sb2-init i get "checking whether the C compiler works... Error: Bad syscall: f0005". when i run make stage i also get this error. any ideas? thx. Mar 13 01:33:06 yep, use Ubuntu 9.04 Server :-) Mar 13 01:33:21 (on 32 bit x86) Mar 13 01:33:33 muhgatus: from a google search on the issue: "Your version of qemu is probably too old and doesn't support NPTL. f0005 is ARM_NR_set_tls." :) Mar 13 01:34:26 muhgatus: if your qemu-arm doesn't work, scratchbox2 won't work Mar 13 01:35:24 destinal: so, are you ready to start testing a C-version of ipkgservice? Mar 13 01:36:09 rwhitby: sure Mar 13 01:36:26 destinal: thx :) this means i'll will backport a newer version of qemu first ;) Mar 13 01:38:18 muhgatus: awesome. what application do you have in mind for your use of the WIDK? Mar 13 01:39:11 destinal: there's a Makefile in http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=applications/preware.git;a=tree;f=src which should work with a standard preware build.git toolchain setup Mar 13 01:40:50 rwhitby: it implements the same API as the java ipkgservice then and is a drop-in replacement? Mar 13 01:40:56 destinal: yes Mar 13 01:41:07 in fact that's exactly what I'd like you to test. Mar 13 01:41:19 cool Mar 13 01:41:43 (since I have made a couple of unreleased matching improvements to Preware, but hope it is all backwards compatible) Mar 13 01:42:26 rwhitby: i'll try to get pygame running on my pre, so a can use python to write applications instead of the webos sdk. :) Mar 13 01:44:21 muhgatus: you know that optware has python, right? Mar 13 01:47:39 rwhitby: yes. is there something like gtk or qt already ported to webos? Mar 13 01:50:07 rwhitby: oh well, I don't have a good build environment here, but I'll do it from home in an hour or so Mar 13 01:50:30 muhgatus: yes, darronb has ported Qt to webOS, and we're looking at how to incorporate it into the WIDK. Mar 13 01:50:32 I blew away my WIDK directory on my work machine at some point Mar 13 01:50:58 speaking of, that's why I'm back tonight Mar 13 01:51:56 I'd hoped to get some time today to work on a coworker's pre, but I had too much to do Mar 13 01:52:24 rwhitby: great :) Mar 13 01:52:45 so, I've got packages ready, but the demos are mostly built from 4.6.0 or 4.5.3 code, not the 4.6.2 that the libs are built against. shouldn't really matter, really. they work Mar 13 01:53:07 rwhitby: so i lean back and see what happens ;) Mar 13 01:53:32 darronb: 4.x.x of which thing where? Mar 13 01:53:55 oh, Qt Mar 13 01:54:14 destinal: I updated the Qt libraries to the current version, 4.6.2... but haven't had time to ge the demos up to the same version. it doesn't really matter, I seriously doubt they changed any Mar 13 01:55:18 darronb: where is the qt port? I forget (is it mentioned on the wiki anywhere?) Mar 13 01:55:56 jacques: it's currently only on my blog, www.griffin.net ... I'm here tonight to get help putting it on preware Mar 13 01:57:00 excellent Mar 13 01:58:34 jacques: so you got xsdl built? any issues other than the python deal? Mar 13 01:58:41 okay, so as of now I've got compiled packages, and the dir tree that built them... the source tree itself is 20meg Mar 13 01:58:45 so navit can be ported to the pre. internet-free gps navigation - great. Mar 13 01:59:07 it's not 'source' as in code, but source as in palm-package creates packages out of it Mar 13 01:59:53 dtzWill: deps in nonworking were behaving strangely part of the time, and I had to install the xsltproc thing, but otherwise I think everything was related to python Mar 13 02:00:05 rwhitby: I might have missed it, did you have a chance to throw up that repo? :[ Mar 13 02:00:13 darronb: we have a number of packages where the binaries are built from public sources somewhere, and then we check those binaries into a repo at git.webos-internals.org and then package it from there. Mar 13 02:00:20 dtzWill: sorry, missed that one. what name? Mar 13 02:00:47 rwhitby: x11/xkeyboard-config Mar 13 02:01:18 jacques: okay. that's strange they don't work, hrm. as in things that were clearly listed as deps didn't get built? o_O. Mar 13 02:01:32 i still don't have a pre at the moment, so I haven't been able to fix the few problems. the Qt lib still has an icon, and webOS 1.4 isn't smart enough to show it properly (the splash screen seems to wait for something else to load, worked on the previous OS) Mar 13 02:02:03 jacques: if it's related to nonworking (can't really see how it would be?) maybe it'll go away when I move them outta nonworking :) Mar 13 02:03:16 dtzWill: yeah it was really strange, like some deps were ignored and some were not Mar 13 02:03:25 rwhitby: what should we do about the demos? there are currently 7 of them, plus the library package. is that too much clutter? can they all be in a subproject or something? Mar 13 02:03:52 demos should be separate IMHO Mar 13 02:04:08 separate from the qt lib, but they can probably be grouped together, no? :) Mar 13 02:04:34 in applications/ as a bunch of separate apps? Mar 13 02:04:41 that I don't have a strong opinion on Mar 13 02:05:00 darronb: not that you should listen to me :D but I was suggesting putting the demos together in a "qt_demos" package. Mar 13 02:05:56 dtzWill: yeah, that's be best... but there's currently no selection app front end, they're all separate icons on the pre. I don't have a pre any longer (for at least a couple more weeks) so I can't develop one Mar 13 02:07:18 darronb: that's a good point, and something I don't have an easy answer for. if it's just 7 maybe the clutter is no big deal, shrug. or write a selector in qt ;) Mar 13 02:07:49 Doesn't the PDK have some sort of emulation Mar 13 02:07:50 I've barely used git before, always to simply suck down an existing project and push changes... anyone help me figure out how to create the new .git projects, etc? Mar 13 02:09:16 darronb: we'll create the repo, and then you just clone it Mar 13 02:09:16 my git experience is same as yours I'm afraid Mar 13 02:09:48 rwhitby: okay, sounds good Mar 13 02:09:54 speaking of git, what is a good git gui? Mar 13 02:10:27 egaudet: for windows? Mar 13 02:10:35 egaudet: watch the windows gitcast Mar 13 02:10:40 I've seen a few go by, never tried one Mar 13 02:10:59 not for windows Mar 13 02:11:10 egaudet: ubuntu? Mar 13 02:11:19 anything linux I guess Mar 13 02:11:20 egaudet: giggle? Mar 13 02:11:22 redhat Mar 13 02:11:29 darronb: how about a whole new qt category on the git server, like we've started for x11 Mar 13 02:11:38 egaudet: you mean fedora? Mar 13 02:11:38 it may be the only way I can help my work switch over :P Mar 13 02:11:43 no i mean redhat Mar 13 02:11:46 ah, ok Mar 13 02:11:55 enterprise yeah :P Mar 13 02:12:03 bbl Mar 13 02:12:26 rwhitby: wow, that sounds perfect... hmm, but the categories in Preware for people's apps would show up in the normal "Applications" or whatever categories? Mar 13 02:13:20 darronb: yes, categories in preware are independent of git organisation Mar 13 02:13:34 rwhitby: okay, then it sounds great. :) Mar 13 02:13:45 egaudet: http://live.gnome.org/giggle Mar 13 02:13:45 egaudet: a friend of mine likes gitg. also: http://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Interfaces,_frontends,_and_tools#Summary_.28feature_matrix.29 Mar 13 02:13:51 so, qt/(??).git Mar 13 02:14:04 rwhitby: I like the qt dir idea Mar 13 02:14:18 heck we should probably have one for e Mar 13 02:14:57 webOS is awesome :D Mar 13 02:15:00 rwhitby: yeah. I've currently got net.griffin.qt, .qtcanvas, .qtdemo, .qtmandelbrot, .qtmaps, .qtmice, .qtspread, .qtopengl (nonfunctional so far), .qtstyles Mar 13 02:15:05 indeed Mar 13 02:15:21 gkatsev, jacques, thanks I'll start poking around with those Monday :P Mar 13 02:15:31 qtopengles :-) Mar 13 02:15:34 darronb: do you have those in separate directories? Mar 13 02:15:53 jacques: yes, it's actually the qtopengl_es2 demo Mar 13 02:16:17 darronb: since each git repo will clone into a separate directory Mar 13 02:16:53 rwhitby: yes, my current format (which I'll adapt to whatever's best) is a folder "qtpackages", with the palm-game-fix script, a README, a buildit.sh script, and 9 dirs for the packages Mar 13 02:17:32 darronb: it it's already ES, it shouldn't be too hard to get working :-D Mar 13 02:17:35 darronb: ok, so each of the 9 dirs is a repo then? Mar 13 02:17:52 rwhitby: yes, i think that would fit best Mar 13 02:17:53 or just one repo for the whole kit and kaboodle? Mar 13 02:18:25 qt opengles?? wow that's awesome Mar 13 02:18:34 rwhitby: what should I do for setting them up to build? I currently have one "buildit.sh" script for them all, and the "palm-game-fix" script Mar 13 02:18:37 darronb: your call - whatever will be most convenient for you as the primary developer Mar 13 02:19:16 jacques: yeah, the app itself is probably fine. It compiles and runs, but there's apparently an extra bit I need to do to make sort of a GL surface plugin Mar 13 02:20:34 rwhitby: hmm. would it seem odd to have separate repos but a common upper level build script? Mar 13 02:21:05 rwhitby: especially since there's no top level repo.. hmm... yeah, that's odd. Mar 13 02:21:19 darronb: for most people the autobuilder will build the packages (downloading them from those source repo and then packaging and releasing them). Mar 13 02:21:59 and eventually we would have support in the WIDK for building Qt apps independently of that directory structure Mar 13 02:22:01 rwhitby: the only thing special is the requirement on the 8 app folders (well, 7 functional) to run palm-game-fix on them Mar 13 02:22:16 darronb: the autobuilder will handle that in the packaging setp Mar 13 02:22:19 step Mar 13 02:23:41 rwhitby: okay. only confusion on my part is that if there are 9 repos at the subdir level, then there's no repo to hold my current scripts. the autobuilder won't need them? Mar 13 02:24:01 darronb: can we see the buildit.sh script? Mar 13 02:24:30 rwhitby: are you saying the autobuilder contains palm-game-fix -like functionality, or that it'll run my script for me? Mar 13 02:24:57 rwhitby, soo I want to test C service Mar 13 02:25:00 rwhitby: sure... it's 18 lines... dump to the channel? what's the best way? Mar 13 02:25:14 darronb: See http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=blob;f=apps/sdlquake/Makefile - there will be one of those for each package. Mar 13 02:25:19 is there a convenient way to -stop- the java service Mar 13 02:25:31 darronb: a link to existing repo, or webos.pastebin.com Mar 13 02:25:53 egaudet: mv /etc/event.d/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice /home/root/ Mar 13 02:26:33 http://webos.pastebin.com/SMrp0SSC Mar 13 02:27:06 darronb: yeah, autobuilder handles all that. Mar 13 02:27:25 what is palm-game-fix ? Mar 13 02:27:26 rwhitby: oh, the script is currently assuming the ipk files go one level above the dir the script is in. the structure currently is actually "qtpackages/src/..." Mar 13 02:28:34 darronb: line 24 and 25 of http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=blob;f=apps/sdlquake/Makefile do what your script does Mar 13 02:29:10 darronb: dtzWill can vouch for how easy or difficult he finds working with the autobuilder setup ... Mar 13 02:29:18 oooh it's a sdk thing Mar 13 02:30:21 jacques: no, it's a script by destinal i think.. found on the wiki someplace Mar 13 02:30:42 rwhitby: okay, where do the screenshots go? Mar 13 02:31:00 rwhitby: if you make the repos, I'll start filling them up Mar 13 02:31:40 darronb: any accessible URL is fine for the screenshots Mar 13 02:31:58 the wiki is an obvious place if you're using the wiki for the homepage for the package Mar 13 02:33:26 darronb: so qt/{qtcanvas,qtdemo,qtmandelbrot,qtmaps,qtmice,qtspread,qtstyles}.git ? Mar 13 02:33:57 is qtmandelbrot NEON-enhanced? Mar 13 02:34:13 rwhitby: and qt, qtopengl ... although qtopengl does not run properly, it's probably ready itself... the plugin isn't Mar 13 02:34:34 nonworking things are fine Mar 13 02:34:35 jacques: oh, so I NEON is an option then? :) Mar 13 02:34:39 so qt/qt.git ? Mar 13 02:34:43 s/so I/so is/ Mar 13 02:34:45 darronb meant: jacques: oh, so is NEON is an option then? :) Mar 13 02:34:47 yeah Mar 13 02:34:50 or is there another name for that one? Mar 13 02:34:53 darronb: well, on the pre it sure is Mar 13 02:35:13 jacques: hmm, okay.. I have a little more work then Mar 13 02:36:02 interesting, I didn't realize infobot would do that. :) Mar 13 02:36:49 ~botsnack Mar 13 02:36:49 aw, gee, oil Mar 13 02:41:44 darronb: I need a couple of words description for each repo Mar 13 02:41:58 darronb: and do you want them listed with you as the owner or WebOS Internals generic owner ? Mar 13 02:42:31 rwhitby: qt : Base libraries for the Qt framework Mar 13 02:42:45 rwhitby: which do you prefer? Mar 13 02:42:53 darronb: totally your call Mar 13 02:43:18 rwhitby: qt* : qt* demo for the Qt framework Mar 13 02:43:30 darronb: you can see what others have chosen by the list at git.webos-internals.org Mar 13 02:43:35 rwhitby: any consequences either way for maintenance, etc? Mar 13 02:43:48 darronb: nope, access will be the same Mar 13 02:44:36 darronb: for qtopengl ? is that a demo too? Mar 13 02:44:54 hey, I didn't know about http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=plugins/termplugin.git;a=commit;h=f4801051999dce09f1a5accc5ee967e7c75e350b Mar 13 02:44:55 rwhitby: yes, it's a demo Mar 13 02:45:04 what about qtdemo Mar 13 02:45:24 "Fixes crash in 1.4." shouldn't ppl be singing from the rooftops? Mar 13 02:45:24 jacques: yeah, egaudet is a PHE Mar 13 02:45:38 rwhitby: hmm, that should actually be qttiles, probably.. to late? :) ... originally I did a single demo. Mar 13 02:46:03 what is PHE! Mar 13 02:46:14 phenylalanine? Mar 13 02:46:31 never too lat Mar 13 02:46:33 late Mar 13 02:46:42 jacques: there are other things wront Mar 13 02:46:47 wrong Mar 13 02:46:50 egaudet: Plugin Hacker Extraordinaire Mar 13 02:47:14 plug it in plug it in Mar 13 02:47:25 never two lattes Mar 13 02:47:35 destinal-wirc: oh? :-( Mar 13 02:47:49 * mjkjr finally has preware on his pre Mar 13 02:48:07 but yeah as destinal-wirc said, they took away ForceRedraw and now you don't get redraws on keystrokes in its current state Mar 13 02:48:10 darronb: http://webos.pastebin.com/43FpWYuN ? Mar 13 02:48:24 I'm limited to 1-line fixes ;-) Mar 13 02:50:17 rwhitby: i made a single correction, the mandelbrot demo description was missing an 'n' Mar 13 02:51:31 darronb: and the owner question? Mar 13 02:52:01 rwhitby: i guess generic Mar 13 02:52:11 darronb: welcome to the team :-) Mar 13 02:52:21 :) Mar 13 02:54:16 darronb: git clone git@git.webosinternals.org:qt/qt.git Mar 13 02:54:19 zsoc: HI! ;) Mar 13 02:54:23 (and similar for the others) Mar 13 02:54:38 dtzWill: .... that's not a normal Will greeting. Mar 13 02:54:38 darronb: it will complain that it's an empty repo at first, until you push something Mar 13 02:54:55 zsoc: what's a normal Will greeting? :) Mar 13 02:55:24 dtzWill: generally nothing unless I greet you first, or a simpler hello, generally not caps and a wink. Mar 13 02:55:27 dtzWill: what did i miss? Mar 13 02:56:04 zsoc: pretty active day, qt getting merged in, terminal working apparently! and generall goodness Mar 13 02:56:23 dtzWill: terminal working? That's more than general goodness Mar 13 02:56:37 egaudet: you fix terminal? where's desty? Mar 13 02:56:49 well that's why it wasn't included in general goodness, but rather listed separate. ;) Mar 13 02:57:43 zsoc, I "fixed" the crash, it's not in a happy working state though (keystrokes don't refresh/render until mouse drag). "desty" knows about it all :P Mar 13 02:58:13 rwhitby: okay, got them cloned except for qttiles (was qtdemo) Mar 13 02:59:04 darronb: try that one again now Mar 13 02:59:22 rwhitby: okay, got it Mar 13 02:59:54 darronb: please take a look at the repositories in the games section for the preferred layout of the repo. it just so happens we prefer the source in a src subdir too **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Mar 13 02:59:57 2010