**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Mar 14 02:59:56 2010 Mar 14 03:05:52 can't find it, but I thought I had 187MiB free and am dow to 38MiB free in / Mar 14 03:06:24 sweet icon for X Mar 14 03:10:56 "-nolisten tcp" :-( Mar 14 03:24:23 dtzWill: is xkbcomp working for you? Mar 14 03:24:36 I get Error: Can't find file "palm-pre" for keycodes include Mar 14 03:25:36 is palm-pre supposed to be mentioned in /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.xlauncher/share/X11/xkb/keymap.dir ? Mar 14 03:26:50 dtzWill: any reason you are running in 24bpp mode instead of 32bpp? Mar 14 03:30:35 jacques: sorry, was taking a break :D. Mar 14 03:31:32 np, any thoughts ? Mar 14 03:31:32 jacques: does 32bit get you anything other than alpha? Mar 14 03:31:44 jacques: particularly if the pre's surface is 32bit /with/ alpha? (isn't it?) Mar 14 03:32:21 dtzWill: based on comments in palm's sdl patch, I figured 32bpp should perform better as no shadow surface is required Mar 14 03:32:27 jacques: the other reason is if there is a strictly RGB packing of colors that fits 32bit that is used, gles doesn't support it Mar 14 03:32:43 jacques: oh i'm actually using sdl gles since it's faster and doesn't tear, etc Mar 14 03:32:45 but I'm mostly wondering about the xkbcomp thing Mar 14 03:32:58 jacques: yes palm-pre absolutely should be shipped, should be in ../share/X11/xkb/keymap Mar 14 03:33:04 ah, ok great Mar 14 03:33:12 jacques: is it not? b/c the keymap loads fine for me :( Mar 14 03:33:14 it's there, but I still get that error Mar 14 03:33:22 :-| Mar 14 03:33:30 so what's different about my setup ? Mar 14 03:33:33 jacques: and the script is passing a corret -R flag? Mar 14 03:33:41 jacques: well this is why i was hoping for testers :D, let's find out what's difference Mar 14 03:33:44 *different Mar 14 03:33:52 yeah. I have tried it manually Mar 14 03:34:15 from root, can you run ' /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.xlauncher/ Mar 14 03:34:21 xkbcomp -R/media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.xlauncher/share/X11/xkb/keymap palm-pre :0.0 Mar 14 03:34:23 and pastebin the results? Mar 14 03:34:28 jacques: hmmmmm Mar 14 03:34:39 and palm-pre *is* there? lol Mar 14 03:34:46 hmm? that cmd doesn't look right Mar 14 03:35:00 it isn't Mar 14 03:35:06 i mean to add 'start.sh' to the end, sorry Mar 14 03:35:29 but mostly if the command you gave doesn't work, then hrmm. Mar 14 03:36:51 http://webos.pastebin.com/RNp5vxn0 Mar 14 03:37:34 heh. oops. Mar 14 03:37:53 root@palm-webos-device:/var/home/root# which xkbcomp Mar 14 03:37:55 /usr/local/bin/xkbcomp Mar 14 03:37:57 :-D Mar 14 03:38:00 jacques: lol hahaha Mar 14 03:38:05 dtzWill: perhaps to match qt it would just be org.webosinternals.x11 ? Mar 14 03:38:27 jacques: \o/ that should fix it. i rebuilt xkbcomp to look in the directory I gave, it's... kinda lame haha, but works Mar 14 03:38:40 (instead of xlauncher for appid) Mar 14 03:39:07 rwhitby-pre: I'm not against that. I wasn't sure, but the idea was qt has no frontend. an x server does--and if we end up not wanting a frontend to just run the xserv....oh Mar 14 03:39:15 rwhitby-pre: you just mean rename it? lol yeah I can do that :). Mar 14 03:39:56 the appid, not the app name Mar 14 03:40:17 dtzWill: this package will include the shared libraries for other clients too, right? Mar 14 03:40:35 yeah I can. will have to recompile bunch of stuff because of hardcoded path, but just as long as we don't change it frequently I can do that :) Mar 14 03:40:42 dtzWill: if your xkbcomp is built to look in that dir, why the -R arg ? Mar 14 03:41:11 dtzWill: if it is server and libs then just .x11 seems best Mar 14 03:41:18 rwhitby-pre: well, interesting. the current package has some of what a client would need, but not everything (not even everyting x-related). anyway I'll happily change it Mar 14 03:41:37 jacques: that's a good question, but you tell me. I assume my xkbcomp worked where yours failed? despite the -R flag? lol Mar 14 03:42:01 do we see people wanting to instal clients without a server too? Mar 14 03:42:12 dtzWill: I have yet to try yours Mar 14 03:42:13 jacques: err not demanding info, just...idk, really. it seems to need both? I think it's because we're using the older xkb methods, but idk tbh Mar 14 03:42:32 (probably only for Xvnc, right?) Mar 14 03:43:05 rwhitby-pre: oh wasn't thinking xvnc. I guess people might, yes Mar 14 03:43:26 is that a package/something people have been working on? Mar 14 03:43:34 but that would be a separate package anyway, not related Mar 14 03:43:42 whoah, is this right ? 11844889 Mar 13 20:45 libX11.so.6* , 1140932 Mar 13 21:43 libX11.so.6.stripped* Mar 14 03:43:56 jacques: oh okay. well lemme know if you get a chance, please :) Mar 14 03:44:13 du -sh libX11.so.6 libX11.so.6.stripped => 11.3M libX11.so.6, 1.1M libX11.so.6.stripped Mar 14 03:44:23 jacques: oh errrrrr >_> <_< Mar 14 03:44:24 (since you would want to be able to instal both local server and also xvnc separately) Mar 14 03:44:58 rwhitby-pre: I think clients and server share some libs, like libX11 Mar 14 03:45:06 jacques: I'll confirm and fix that. assumed the built libs would be stripped, my bad Mar 14 03:45:12 where can i order cases in canada Mar 14 03:45:14 jacques: yes, some of them are useful for clients. Mar 14 03:45:28 so I think .x11 for single package with server and libs, then separate packages for clients which depend on it Mar 14 03:46:01 jacques: confirmed. wow ty for catching that Mar 14 03:46:09 rwhitby-pre: that sounds good to me. Mar 14 03:46:12 i.e. client packages don't contain common libs Mar 14 03:46:33 jacques: rofl that helps >_> <_< Mar 14 03:46:59 dtzWill: :-D Mar 14 03:47:59 the x server makes pretty patterns when you minimise the card ... Mar 14 03:48:27 rwhitby-pre: haha yeah. I like the 'retro' mode that is, even if it looks weird zoomed out, so when you run it you can tell. I could probably make background white or something, shrug Mar 14 03:48:38 dtzWill: I just confirmed your xkbcomp does not give the error Mar 14 03:48:53 so, we need a full screen xterm, right? Mar 14 03:48:54 rwhitby-pre: yeah Mar 14 03:48:58 jacques: yeah, so idk what the deal is. so your launcher icon works now? Mar 14 03:49:13 rwhitby-pre: yeah, and as you probably know xterm is chilling in optware Mar 14 03:49:22 dtzWill: you don't know which deal is ? Mar 14 03:49:32 dtzWill: retro is good. old school X11 Mar 14 03:49:36 another thing, is the keyboard support isn't complete. I need to add a few things, like bar, etc. Mar 14 03:49:45 dtzWill: that xterm may pull in lots of unnecessary deps ... Mar 14 03:50:02 also for some reason 'orange' didn't wanna act like a modifier with xkb, but '@' did. so..they're switched. not the most intuitive Mar 14 03:50:09 (the one in optware, as it does not know about the xlauncher package) Mar 14 03:50:13 sym is control, so we have controlc, control l, etc Mar 14 03:50:18 jacques: oh good call. Mar 14 03:50:26 jacques: deal===why the -R flag is needed Mar 14 03:50:43 I say we put some terminal in cross-compile.git Mar 14 03:50:54 dtzWill: ah yeah, minor mystery Mar 14 03:51:06 jacques: i'm okay with that, we also need /something/ (window manager?) to maximize it and keep it in the screen bounds Mar 14 03:51:35 I don;t know current state of matchbox, but I thought maemo was using it until recently Mar 14 03:51:45 does someone (maybe someone who uses the other terminals, or worked on them) have a good idea for a meaningful keyboard mappings for missing keys? Mar 14 03:51:51 jacques: we change the deps when we repackage anyway Mar 14 03:51:59 it was originally developed by mallum for the handhelds.org project starting in like 1999 Mar 14 03:52:12 I can make it happen, but if someone's already identified important/useful keys and good ways to bind them i'd rather not reinvent the whell Mar 14 03:52:16 *wheel Mar 14 03:52:24 I have a hacky build script for matchbox I can push Mar 14 03:52:39 hacky because it's a wrapper for a modified version of _their_ 'build all of matchbox' script lol Mar 14 03:52:47 I could/should probably do that cleaner....:/ Mar 14 03:53:40 dtzWill: when you get a sec, check these out: http://intimate.handhelds.org/screens.html Mar 14 03:53:53 to see what X on handhelds looked like in 2001 :-) Mar 14 03:54:02 jacques: that's awesomely useful Mar 14 03:54:34 lol, dunno about useful Mar 14 03:54:37 is there any sane re-profiling of processes on webos using nice/renice, so far as app responsiveness? just curious. Mar 14 03:55:31 my partner has icewm staged, I can bug him to clean it up and I can push taht Mar 14 03:56:02 dtzWill: any thoughts on how ppl can customize their X startup ? Mar 14 03:56:12 just edit the start script is probably fine Mar 14 03:56:26 for example, I removed the "-nolisten tcp" Mar 14 03:56:32 konsoleX: interesting idea .. any idea what the current priority levels are for the stock system is ? Mar 14 03:56:33 jacques: I have none on that. I was thinking by providing an xlauncher package (possibly with it optionally sourcing /media/internal/xinitrc or something) Mar 14 03:56:41 they could extend it and not have it broken during upgrades, etc. Mar 14 03:56:45 some ppl may want landscape, etc Mar 14 03:56:48 check for .xdefaults dir in /media/internal or something? Mar 14 03:57:13 maybe someone will make a nice mojo launcher Mar 14 03:57:19 jacques: but that we would also in some other package, provide a reasonable/solid/good experience. I think that's worth our effort--if we just give tools only those already familiar and with technical knowledge will find it very useful Mar 14 03:57:24 with sliders and stuff :-D Mar 14 03:57:25 well those little sliding switches Mar 14 03:57:32 bpadalino: no idea, i haven't checked I figured it might have been already discounted as unimportant / solved by palm. Mar 14 03:57:38 rwhitby-pre: err don't you mean xinitrc? Mar 14 03:57:47 yeah Mar 14 03:57:56 both actually Mar 14 03:57:58 konsoleX: i think you should check it out .. see what priority things are .. Mar 14 03:58:00 oh i'm all happy for a nice launcher haha Mar 14 03:58:04 rwhitby-pre: yeah, good call. Mar 14 03:58:32 and in general let's not try to reinvent the wheel. :). customizable x is a solved problem, so maybe we can mirror that as closely as possible (xinitrc/xdefaults sounds good) Mar 14 03:58:33 my pre's time is interesting .. it will speed up a little bit, then when i check the time on it - i see the clock, coming out of sleep, change/update Mar 14 03:58:33 maybe /media/internal/x11 dir with both files (and more) in it Mar 14 03:58:52 rwhitby-pre: sounds good, and the extra folder sounds good for file management, etc, purposes Mar 14 03:59:00 bpadalino: ultimately i'd like to see the dialer have priority over everything else... nice to get a call faster, but I assume that is all handled by luna Mar 14 03:59:04 jacques: yeah I had nolisten tcp for security reasons lol Mar 14 03:59:04 yeah .Xdefaults / Xdefaults will be useful Mar 14 03:59:11 make it think $HOME is /media/internal/x11 ... Mar 14 03:59:37 konsoleX: some of it could have a higher priority .. but it would be interesting to know where the lack of responsiveness comes from Mar 14 03:59:47 rwhitby-pre: well AFAIK kdrive doesn't support xinitrc, and the use of Xdefaults is via xrdb which I don't think we've built/staged yet. so some leg work still :) Mar 14 03:59:52 that should solve everything at once Mar 14 03:59:59 dtzWill: then I gues I shouldn't tell you about the "-ac" :-) Mar 14 04:00:14 jacques: oh I don't care. I just didn't wanna SHIP with those on Mar 14 04:00:23 (as long as it can handle vfat home area) Mar 14 04:00:25 jacques: seemed careless to by /default/ be open, etc Mar 14 04:00:41 rwhitby-pre: hmm not sure, i'd imagine it can handle vfat just fine. but I suppose idk :) Mar 14 04:01:30 dtzWill: I meant solve all questions of file locations Mar 14 04:01:52 bpadalino: i have seen no replacement dialers in preware, is it too deeply tied with webOS to consider? Mar 14 04:01:57 rwhitby-pre: quite possibly, here's hoping Mar 14 04:02:04 good call/idea, let's try it :) Mar 14 04:02:10 dtzWill: yeah, now that you mention it, you did it right Mar 14 04:02:32 dtzWill: and now it will match the package appid suffix ;-) Mar 14 04:03:21 rwhitby-pre: after I recompile, grumble grumble :P Mar 14 04:03:31 (not really an issue, I'm just bitching lol) Mar 14 04:03:55 so how does a local X client find the libs ? Mar 14 04:04:09 jacques: other than LD_LIBRARY_PATH or a rpath hardcoded? Mar 14 04:05:11 what would set the LD_LIBRARY_PATH ? Mar 14 04:05:29 jacques: startup script for the client? or just the -rpath hardcoded Mar 14 04:06:24 -rpath hardcoded to /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.xlauncher/lib seems a bit messy Mar 14 04:06:37 jacques: oh it's not fun lol, no Mar 14 04:07:05 jacques: but unless that ldconfig magic is there, we gotta put the libs somewhere, and that somewhere right now is in within some package in a directory like that Mar 14 04:07:06 just something to think about - tho once this gets out there and ppl start developing 1000's of apps for it, it will be harder to change Mar 14 04:07:17 agreed, and I'm happy to discuss it. Mar 14 04:07:26 i certainly haven't thought about it enough, don't have the answers, and welcome discussion :) Mar 14 04:07:30 maybe the ldconfig trick ... Mar 14 04:08:09 looks like rwhitby-pre left Mar 14 04:08:17 * konsoleX notes that some... subjective... speedups were attained by processing some apps through google's closure tools, but eventually hosed webOS by running mojo framework through it! Mar 14 04:08:21 was gonna ask him what he thought about the ldconfig trick discussion Mar 14 04:08:57 konsoleX: i don't think so? it's just another app .. i am not sure how the registration process goes to say which app handles different callbacks Mar 14 04:09:14 jacques: he'll be back :D Mar 14 04:09:15 dtzWill: no worries - first we get ppl to see value in X server, then the massive demand will motivate us :-) Mar 14 04:09:36 jacques: yeah. but we gotta make a compelling case first. xterm is an easy example of such. Mar 14 04:09:57 jacques: and gtk apps seem to perform rather rather well. qt seems a bit heavy, although I'm not sure if there's something to be done about that, or what. Mar 14 04:10:01 yeah, I'm saying it's probably fine to hack things for the "demo apps" Mar 14 04:10:16 jacques: and qt from the deb chroot is definitely slower at rendering than the qt package elsewhere Mar 14 04:10:24 might be inevitable, but I'd like to see if I can't help close that gap :) Mar 14 04:10:37 jacques: oh yeah. but also an eye to the future is good :) Mar 14 04:11:15 * CardShark would love xterm Mar 14 04:11:25 hey, just checking in Mar 14 04:11:50 .. oh, wait. does anyone have a working ARM scratchbox and want to try compiling a test Qt app? Mar 14 04:12:19 howdy darronb Mar 14 04:12:37 konsoleX: interesting closure observations.. Mar 14 04:12:37 jacques: can you summarize the ldconfig discussion? Mar 14 04:12:43 darronb: I have such a thing Mar 14 04:12:44 and there's work to be done on the x server, as time allows, like pixman has NEON disabled b/c it wouldn't compile, can probably take advantage of the shadow ext and make rendering partially a lot faster, etc. but that can wait, and I'm not sure how much time I'll have immeidately to do that stuff Mar 14 04:13:18 hey darronb - did your blog get a few hits overnight? Mar 14 04:13:42 rwhitby: let me check Mar 14 04:13:43 rwhitby: so far 2 main ways discussed of handling libs distributed with packages Mar 14 04:14:16 rwhitby: oh, about an extra 350 maybe. not so many so far Mar 14 04:14:32 rwhitby: 1) /usr/local/lib using /var/local/lib, symlinks to /media/cryptofs, and bind mount to /usr Mar 14 04:14:55 darronb: yeah, precentral stuffed up the second link in the article - it was meant to point to your site Mar 14 04:14:57 jacques: want to download a 30Meg tar file and see if it's all you need to compile with? :) Mar 14 04:15:12 rwhitby: 2) ldconfig -C CACHE -f CONF to create a ld.so.cache living in /var bind mounted over the one in /etc Mar 14 04:15:34 darronb: hit me (it will take a bit my connection's slow) Mar 14 04:16:20 rwhitby: with 2) we can have whatever we want in ld.so.conf Mar 14 04:16:25 jacques: and 3) is the put it in a common package, and use long paths for rpath or LD_LIBRARY_PATH ... Mar 14 04:16:56 bpadalino: my assumption was that since webOS is largely a JIT compilation platform, that smaller bytesizes would have an impact on launch speed. From my limited testing it seemed to be a large improvement, although it was only my observations to go by. Sizes of 60K, for instance, can be brought down to less than 10K. Mar 14 04:17:09 rpath requires build-time changes, and LD_LIBRARY_PATH requires a launcher Mar 14 04:17:25 jacques: rerunning ldconfig to point to another config file? ... i tried that with the Kindle I think, and something would occasionally rerun ldconfig, screwing it up. It's probably too risky Mar 14 04:17:41 konsoleX: is that just byte sizes of source code? Mar 14 04:17:55 I would rather not have every package need a different -rpath at build-time - /usr/local/lib is fine however Mar 14 04:18:04 bpadalino: javascript code. Mar 14 04:18:28 but without changing the actual functionality of the code, you still achieve a speedup ? Mar 14 04:18:32 that seems a little weird Mar 14 04:18:34 jacques: much as I love the bind mount /usr/local/lib concept (since I created it), it seems #3 is the only one with a hope of app catalog acceptance Mar 14 04:18:48 i wish these embedded linux devices would simply use ld.so.conf.d directories for that.. *sigh* Mar 14 04:18:52 it removes all the whitepaces and reformulates it into unreadable code. ;) Mar 14 04:19:01 has anyone tested to see if ld.so.conf.d works? Mar 14 04:19:08 it's not intentionally obfuscated, just seriously optimized. Mar 14 04:19:37 e.g. we found that /etc/profile.d/ was not used, but worked fine Mar 14 04:19:39 rwhitby: it would, but you have to modify ld.so.conf to tell it to chain to it (I think, since that's what my ld.so.conf does... unless it's a legacy backup plan thing) Mar 14 04:20:25 I think ld.so.conf.d is not directly supported by ldconfig Mar 14 04:21:09 at least it's not documented in the man page, and ld.so.conf.d does not appear as a string in the binary Mar 14 04:22:19 3) seems painful Mar 14 04:22:26 jacques: agreed Mar 14 04:23:27 how can we make it less so? Mar 14 04:23:44 I'm thinking of the current build system Mar 14 04:24:02 adding an additional -rpath in the makefile for a package will do it? Mar 14 04:24:11 rebuilt as x11, pushed. will have to uninstall existing package obviously, but stripped bin/libs and named to x11 Mar 14 04:24:20 jacques: okay, sorry. got a little README together. go to http://www2.griffin.net/preware, and get the qtbuild.tar.gz file, the qtest.tar.gz file, and read the README. Mar 14 04:24:24 or maybe something really clever with sb2 mappings Mar 14 04:24:26 i backed up all the files prior to changing them. but when I attempted to process the mojo framework through it my phone entered a reboot loop. even after restoring the files the phone continued into a reboot loop... my testing stopped there, but I believed there to be a large speed increase in launching javascript code (read: apps) that had successfully been processed by closure tools Mar 14 04:24:58 jacques: oops, i meant ot say in the readme it all must be done in the ARM scratchbox environment Mar 14 04:25:04 jacques: i'll update that now Mar 14 04:25:26 well since cross_compile has nothing to do with the built packages (the app ids aren't there), that needs to be changed I would imagine Mar 14 04:26:01 dtzWill: download started Mar 14 04:26:05 maybe each cross-compile specifies the appid it belongs to (note you could have multiple ones that eventually end up in same package), and then something follows the DEPENDS for a package, and adds -Wl,-rpath entries for each Mar 14 04:27:07 dtzWill: RDEPENDS is the term for that in OpenEmbedded Mar 14 04:27:49 rwhitby: oh :). whoopsy. does it work for them? something we want to borrow? Mar 14 04:28:51 dtzWill: dunno the implementation, just the terminology Mar 14 04:30:04 jacques: the org.webosinternals.widk package current mounts the whole /usr/local - should it just do /usr/local/lib instead? or should we do some /usr/widk hierarchy ? Mar 14 04:30:41 I currently see no problem with mounting all of /usr/local Mar 14 04:30:41 (speaking of which, where's this widk package i hear about?) Mar 14 04:30:55 IIRC there's nothing in there on a stock webos Mar 14 04:31:21 well mine has 'wifi-mfg-labtool' Mar 14 04:31:25 dtzWill: did you use scratchbox 1 or scratchbox2 ? Mar 14 04:31:43 in /usr/local/bin. I may or may not have put that there xD Mar 14 04:31:46 jacques: sb2 Mar 14 04:31:48 rwhitby: as for getting Qt into WIDK... the only issue with what I'm currently using is that Qt on the build box needs to actually match the pathnames of the device... so the Qt stuff to build with has to go into a /media/cryptofs/... location Mar 14 04:31:51 yeah, there's a single file in /usr/local/bin which concerns ,e Mar 14 04:32:13 darronb: that's why we've been using /usr/local/lib Mar 14 04:32:17 sounds like a manufacturing test app Mar 14 04:32:39 jacques: isn't that what everyone else uses? and we're talking about org.webosinternals.widk --is that avail somewhere? :) Mar 14 04:32:56 dtzWill: it's in preware Mar 14 04:33:19 it's a bit confusing there are two things called widk Mar 14 04:33:35 the ipkg and the build env Mar 14 04:33:57 well, i have to go back to debugging something for a client... Mar 14 04:33:57 darronb: the widk currently stages libs in /usr/local/lib in sb2, and the widk package sets up a mirror of that on the device Mar 14 04:34:31 darronb: I don't quite understand this line: INSIDE your ARM scratchbox environment: qtbuild.tar.gz must be unzipped into the location: /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications Mar 14 04:35:07 where can you order pre cases in canada Mar 14 04:35:12 lol i thought it was in preware, but it's not actually called "widk" so my searching always failed :[ Mar 14 04:35:17 * rwhitby continues adding comments to the C-language ipkgservice code ... Mar 14 04:35:34 rwhitby: it would be cleaner than what I'm doing... but how to ensure maximum avoidance of any OTA update issues? also, the ugly /media/cryptofs/... way actually could make it into the App Store maybe Mar 14 04:35:38 comments! Mar 14 04:35:44 entity-: how can that be a #webos-internals question? Mar 14 04:36:14 jacques: well, I'm using sb1... which has a chroot environment... sb2 doesn't seem to do it quite the same way Mar 14 04:36:33 darronb: yes, those are the two factors. Palm hasn't used /usr/local so far, and given they use OE to build the rootfs I doubt they ever will. Mar 14 04:36:46 (apart from that labtool which seems to be a mistake) Mar 14 04:36:53 jacques: just make sure that from within scratchbox, the qtbuild.tar.gz contents end up at /media/cryptofs/.../.../.../palm/applications/net.griffin.qt/qt/bin, etc Mar 14 04:37:00 darronb: ah, we're all using sb2 Mar 14 04:37:01 darronb: that's why I asked that question, and apprently I asked the wrong person :-D Mar 14 04:37:11 22:31:24 +jacques | dtzWill: did you use scratchbox 1 or scratchbox2 ? | Doc_exe Mar 14 04:37:11 sorry dtzWill Mar 14 04:37:19 I meant that for darronb Mar 14 04:37:35 no worries. that's what I get for nick starting with a 'd' :) Mar 14 04:37:41 :P Mar 14 04:38:42 rwhitby, jacques: i had serious issues trying to get Qt (and a few other larger apps, like openSSL I think) to compile following the sb2 instructions on webos-internals Mar 14 04:39:13 hmm, we've built rather large things (like X) in there Mar 14 04:39:16 I built boost Mar 14 04:39:33 darronb: were you seeing qemu-arm instability ? Mar 14 04:39:44 strangely, I haven't see thatn recently Mar 14 04:39:58 rwhitby, jacques: my coworker spent over a week on it (although that's not saying that much given his linux experience)... the issue was all the configure tests for various capabilities would fail with some kind of pipe error Mar 14 04:40:27 I don't recall seeing that Mar 14 04:41:10 * mjkjr just noticed a change-user-agent patch? in testing feed Mar 14 04:41:31 i was using stock ubuntu 9.10 desktop in a VM and following the instructions. ... maybe it's some odd VM issue? does anyone use this within a VM? Mar 14 04:41:34 darronb: was he running it on the officially supported platform? ubuntu server 9.10 ? Mar 14 04:41:55 desktop is not goot for widk Mar 14 04:42:25 I use both 32-bit and 64-bit 9.10 server in kvm under F12 Mar 14 04:42:28 my coworker eventually tried server, I don't think he got much further.... but then I really should have looked at it more then Mar 14 04:42:49 so, i should try 9.10 server? Mar 14 04:43:04 please do Mar 14 04:43:24 we should be able to help you with any problems Mar 14 04:43:25 ... i started to one day, but some download issue with a certain package blocked the whole thing and I didn't quite bother to edit the scripts to bypass it Mar 14 04:43:59 from google, it looked like the package is hosted at a site that loses it's domain name from time to time... heh Mar 14 04:44:05 just make sure not to install a bunch of extra packages - the wiki page is pretty good - I just followed it fow my 64-bit test a few days ago Mar 14 04:44:59 I install it from the .iso image under F12's virt-manager stuff Mar 14 04:45:09 then update to latest of course Mar 14 04:47:09 i'll look into the nice thing and see if I can come up with anything, and I'll see what I can come up with as far as cloned apps processed through closure, for a more direct comparison. I think we all know by this time that webOS is sluggish at times without a restart of luna ;) Mar 14 04:48:09 darronb: I use ub9.10 server in virtualbox for widk Mar 14 04:48:34 32 bit x86 Mar 14 04:48:46 rwhitby: good, that's what I'm starting to build now Mar 14 04:48:47 (virtualbox running on macosx) Mar 14 04:49:00 rwhitby; oops, well, not that part (mac) Mar 14 04:50:01 I haven't been able to send photos from my Pre for almost a week now. Anyone wanna help me trouble shoot? Mar 14 04:50:58 1.5MB/sec. AT&T's uverse is pretty fast... too bad the wireless bandwidth is so pathetic Mar 14 04:52:18 1.7MB/sec. wow, fast even for this. my wife's mother must have stopped watching her chinese internet TV Mar 14 04:57:16 When running a precompiled SDL ARM app I get "ERROR: Unable to set 320x480 video: SDL_HWSURFACE and/or SDL_DOUBLEBUF not supported", does anyone know why that is? Does the pre not support some libSDL functions? Mar 14 04:57:54 electro_: that's correct Mar 14 04:58:33 electro_: or more specifically, it supports the libSDL function, but not those two parameter options Mar 14 04:59:52 Hmm update network settings fixed my issue with sending photos :) Mar 14 04:59:57 Is it a matter of recompiling it using the WIDK, or rewriting code? Mar 14 05:00:46 electro_: the code must be modified Mar 14 05:00:53 you can do it! Mar 14 05:00:58 believe in yourself Mar 14 05:01:11 electro_: depends on if those are critical or not. you could easily remove them from the SetVideoMode or whatever it is that's trying to set them... but it might not work. removing doublebuf would probably result in flicker... hwsurface may or may not make a difference Mar 14 05:02:20 I see... Mar 14 05:02:32 well I will give it a shot Mar 14 05:02:43 good luck .. and god speed Mar 14 05:02:50 thanks for the help guys Mar 14 05:03:05 first just try changing SDL_HWSURFACE to SDL_SWSURFACE (if that's the problem) Mar 14 05:03:58 it'd be nice if virtualbox scaled a window size so you could shrink it down... oh wait, a compiz plugin does that Mar 14 05:06:26 darronb: The only compiz plugin that I know of does a poor job of it, it only passes keyboard events to the window, not mouse Mar 14 05:07:50 electro_: huh. oh well... Mar 14 05:08:51 dtzWill: do you want me to change the xlauncher repo name to x11 too? Mar 14 05:11:08 Almost everyone has been having the media-volume-notification-pop-up-randomly bug right? Mar 14 05:14:51 So out of 145 people on here, I'm the only one that has this problem? Mar 14 05:15:13 gollyzila. never had it Mar 14 05:15:47 Thank you. Well I believe I have found the cause..... Mar 14 05:16:02 I list it in steps: Mar 14 05:16:08 1. Open slider Mar 14 05:18:50 2. Place thumb right (on back cover) over the corner where the speaker is located Mar 14 05:19:35 rwhitby: I don't care about the repo name, tbh. I'd just as soon leave it as-is? but if you think it'll cause confusion, go ahead. just lemme know if you do Mar 14 05:19:58 3. Place index finger on edge of screen right above thumb. Mar 14 05:20:28 that Qt Tiles app is really cool... Mar 14 05:20:59 gollyzilla... your middle finger is bumping the volume button Mar 14 05:21:12 dtzWill: since nothing will refer to xlauncher any more, I think the rename makes sense Mar 14 05:21:13 Qt Tiles is very simple... the Qt animation framework is wonderfully simple but extremely capable Mar 14 05:21:14 4. Squeeze repeatedly until the media volume pops up. Mar 14 05:21:32 dtzWill: it's just a mv and sed on .git/config at your end, right? :-) Mar 14 05:21:41 gollyzila, that's not a bug Mar 14 05:21:52 it's a feature! Mar 14 05:21:59 5. If it doesn't, move your index finger up and down the edge of the screen. Mar 14 05:22:14 darronb: it looks very nice. smooth is key. reguardless of simplicity, the end result looks great. Mar 14 05:22:17 It sometimes happens. But not guaranteed Mar 14 05:22:21 rwhitby: well and changing the remotes on my git repo's, but I suppose I can include that in my sed. :) Mar 14 05:22:58 rwhitby: so yeah doesn't matter. also, I see that the builder /built/ the updated package, and it's on ipkg.preware.org, etc, but don't see it on my phone's preware? is that something related to changing appid/version/etc? or just ccahe? :) Mar 14 05:23:02 dtzWill: in fact, the server could even be included in the x11 repo in a src subdir ... Mar 14 05:23:05 It also happens alot when I place/remove my seidio innocase Mar 14 05:23:48 decimate: it's not even accelerated. :) the pre has pretty decent hardware. the Qt devs also did a good job with reasonably efficient software rendering Mar 14 05:24:06 rwhitby: makes sense, that's the way other packages do it.... Mar 14 05:24:20 * konsoleX slaps Aonic with a wet trout. Mar 14 05:24:23 darronb: that they did. love the qt apps. Mar 14 05:24:29 the separate package idea came when i thought i'd ship with more than jsut the server, lke a wm, etc Mar 14 05:24:42 gollyzila: sounds more like a hardware issue than a software bug Mar 14 05:24:51 dtzWill: well, that still may be a good reason Mar 14 05:26:03 miki: I'm guessing that something loses contact. But it's strange that more people have had it after 1.4 was released Mar 14 05:26:33 rwhitby: maybe :). also, and i'm sorry, but it looks like when you rename a package, the server kesps the old in the feed/on the server. it's teh testing feed, but I want to make sure any messiness I'm responsible for is either ok, or at least draw attention to it so we can nuke those files :). thoughts? Mar 14 05:26:55 oooooo also this really doesn't depend on upstartmgr I need to fix that Mar 14 05:26:57 dtzWill: we can easily nuke the old files Mar 14 05:28:02 rwhitby: Custom feeds added with Preware that have spaces in the Name do not load. I'm not sure if this bug is already known, but I just thought it wouldn't hurt to let you know. Mar 14 05:28:36 jacques: any luck with the Qt build test? ... I'm building a WIDK VM now to set it up myself Mar 14 05:29:10 * mjkjr can't even spell his own nick right Mar 14 05:30:04 darronb: I was pondering trying to map your sb1 solution to sb2 Mar 14 05:30:10 I don't have sb1 installed Mar 14 05:30:24 gollyzila: it's not a bug, it's a misuse Mar 14 05:30:36 it might be as simple as untarring everything into the staging/../usr/ dir tho Mar 14 05:30:42 an ipkg feed configuration file cannot have a space in the feed name Mar 14 05:30:50 darronb: sorry, I was also doing other things :-) Mar 14 05:31:02 jacques: no problem. :) Mar 14 05:31:04 rwhitby: thoughts on why the package, despite being there, isn't in preware? o_O no hurry, etc, just wondering since it seems odd and been built for a while now :) Mar 14 05:31:06 gollyzila: please update the Preware wiki page with this information so that others can see it Mar 14 05:31:11 anyway i'm out for now, enjoy everyone and have a good one :) Mar 14 05:31:18 dtzWill: dunno, I'll look into it Mar 14 05:31:24 * jacques ponders going to the grocery store Mar 14 05:31:41 * jacques hates spring break. Mar 14 05:31:49 mjkjr: we're testing aupt-4 Mar 14 05:34:01 rwhitby: really?? =) Please tell me more Mar 14 05:34:38 Is there a list of flags the pre supports reguarding SDL? The app I am looking at also uses SDL_HWPALETTE Mar 14 05:35:10 electro_: is it really old - from the 8-bit display days? Mar 14 05:35:39 jacques: Yes, I believe so...lol Mar 14 05:36:54 electro_: with truecolor (most everything now) all that palette stuff is obsolete Mar 14 05:37:13 not necessarily easy to remove, but obsolete :-) Mar 14 05:37:24 oh great Mar 14 05:38:01 we'll see what happens... if I ever get this sb2 environment setup Mar 14 05:38:46 mjkjr: look in the source repo for details Mar 14 05:38:59 if it's doing palette animation, I don't know what to tell you :-) Mar 14 05:39:02 well, I'm going away... need to work on a client project at least a little tonight Mar 14 05:39:07 electro_: why not just download the PDK ? Mar 14 05:39:14 electro_: you're writing a wiki page on all this, right? ;-) Mar 14 05:39:18 heading to grocery store - will be on wirc Mar 14 05:39:32 jacques: what time zoen are you in?!? Mar 14 05:39:34 aw. Mar 14 05:40:24 bpadalino: maybe I shall try the PDK Mar 14 05:40:50 rwhitby: yes...wink...wink Mar 14 05:41:28 rwhitby: when it's all said and done I will probably write up something Mar 14 05:55:46 rwhitby: where exactly do you want me to add it in? I'm guessing not in Known Bugs. Also no one has written about version 0.9.30 since it's in alpha. Mar 14 05:58:43 gollyzila: 0.9.30 is release Mar 14 05:59:39 gollyzila: add a section describing how to add a new feed, giving the webos internals testing feed as an example Mar 14 06:10:59 hrm Mar 14 06:11:04 so what is AUPT-4 gonna add? Mar 14 06:11:20 and tags Mar 14 06:11:39 binary patching Mar 14 06:11:50 ..or that :( Mar 14 06:14:36 * mjkjr|wirc just realized an hour was wasted downloading and installing the wrong version of virtual box :-/ Mar 14 06:18:51 how is binary patching any different D; Mar 14 06:19:00 you know you're stupid when the answer to your question, just presents another question Mar 14 06:19:01 uuugh Mar 14 06:19:08 ill figure it out soon, I'm sure :> Mar 14 06:26:05 * mjkjr|wirc is lol that he can't open up any game if wirc is open Mar 14 06:26:45 well I was going to be on wirc, but luna crashed AGAIN, and then wirc only checks one nick and if that fails ... Mar 14 06:27:18 jacques: I put two nicks in wirc for that reason Mar 14 06:27:25 had that happen once, or twice Mar 14 06:28:22 oh look, I'm still logged on as jacques_pre Mar 14 06:28:51 how do you put two nicks in there? it seems that i can only save one Mar 14 06:28:55 ghosted Mar 14 06:29:04 * jacques too wants to know Mar 14 06:33:11 rwhitby: I'll try my best Mar 14 06:34:40 ugh, I lose an hour tonight Mar 14 06:36:08 i almost forgot Mar 14 06:39:10 good morning Mar 14 06:40:10 morning MetaView Mar 14 07:20:05 well I got the QTest to build, but I moved lots of stuff around and had to edit the make lines to change paths Mar 14 07:21:33 I moved things into staging/armv7/usr/{bin,include/qt4,lib/qt4,share/qt4} Mar 14 07:22:13 then, in the qtest dir: sb2m QMAKESPEC=/usr/local/share/qt4/mkspecs/linux-g++ qmake Mar 14 07:22:45 (sb2m is my alias for 'sb2 -M /home/packages/palm/cross-compile/staging/mapping-armv7') Mar 14 07:23:04 ah, great! Mar 14 07:23:09 sb2m g++ -c -pipe -O2 -Wall -W -D_REENTRANT -DQT_NO_DEBUG -DQT_CORE_LIB -I/usr/local/share/qt4/mkspecs/linux-g++ -I. -I/usr/local/include/qt4/QtCore -I/usr/local/include/qt4 -I. -o main.o main.cpp Mar 14 07:23:15 sb2m g++ -Wl,-O1 -o QTest main.o -Wl,-rpath,/usr/local/lib -L/usr/local/lib -L/usr/local/lib/qt4 -lQtCore -lpthread Mar 14 07:24:24 I'm not sure how to fix the problem of paths being wrong in the makefile created by qmake Mar 14 07:24:52 they point to /media/cryptofs/... ? Mar 14 07:24:59 yeah Mar 14 07:25:50 yeah. that's normal... when you build the Qt libs, it builds qmake. you configure it for the target Qt dir paths then. it's a Qt lib recompile to fix it Mar 14 07:26:15 d'oh Mar 14 07:26:18 there's maybe a qmake option to override, not sure Mar 14 07:26:38 but, users shouldn't have to know to use a parameter to qmake Mar 14 07:27:00 why'd you have to move the paths around? Mar 14 07:27:13 just trying to make it something more sensible? :) Mar 14 07:27:14 yeah qmake && make would be pretty sweet Mar 14 07:27:29 you mean why did I move things? Mar 14 07:27:34 yeah Mar 14 07:27:49 in our current scheme, that's where I think things go Mar 14 07:28:16 we have all the libs, includes, arm binaries, etc under staging in the cross-compile.git Mar 14 07:28:29 hmm, yeah. i understand Mar 14 07:28:45 and it's clean (and not unprecedented) to have a qt4 dir in each of lib include and share Mar 14 07:29:06 hmm... hold on, let me check what exactly you can redirect when building qt Mar 14 07:30:49 * jacques ponders eating hot dogs or yogurt Mar 14 07:31:20 lol Mar 14 07:32:29 jacques: both Mar 14 07:34:43 yeah that's my leaning Mar 14 07:39:24 jacques: well, where on the device would it all go? ... let me ask some questions on #qt Mar 14 07:45:53 jacques: #qt is asleep. oh well Mar 14 07:45:56 this might be a job for sb2 fancy path mapping Mar 14 07:47:25 jacques: i'd personally prefer it all to reference /media/cryptofs/... on the device, since that's the only way that leaves an App Store migration path open i think... but i totally understand your point of view too Mar 14 07:48:09 jacques: what can it do in relation to this problem? Mar 14 07:50:06 it maps paths to other paths Mar 14 07:50:09 I'm getting a library missing issue trying to make stage on WIDK Mar 14 07:50:21 darronb: in e_dbus ? Mar 14 07:50:25 heh, yup Mar 14 07:50:30 yeah, me too. Mar 14 07:50:48 move it and anything that depends on it to ../nonworking/ Mar 14 07:50:49 so processes in the sb2 shell would think they were finding the files in /media/cryptofs/... but in reality they would be in staging Mar 14 07:51:03 me three Mar 14 07:51:03 libedbus-ver-ore-svn-05.so.0 not found Mar 14 07:51:10 same Mar 14 07:51:39 jacques: that sounds like a great solution Mar 14 07:52:06 jacques: and answers some of my confusion on how sb2 worked Mar 14 07:52:19 jacques: although I knew it had to be doing something like that Mar 14 07:52:36 apparently the mapping can be quite complex - written in lua even Mar 14 07:53:05 jacques: sb2 scares the crap out of me if it wasn't in a VM... some live paths, some redirected... I prefer the clean chroot of sb1 in that regard. am I paranoid? Mar 14 07:53:13 for example, currently sb2 processes think files are in /usr/local which are in staging Mar 14 07:53:35 darronb, jacques: git pull, I've disabled those packages Mar 14 07:54:03 dunno if it's more dangerous, but I prefer sb2 - it feels so much "cleaner" Mar 14 07:54:35 thanks rwhitby Mar 14 07:54:42 so, if a postinstall script fails, the package should be removed, right? Mar 14 07:55:08 chances are it's not usable Mar 14 07:55:28 now, should the preremove script be executed in that case or not? Mar 14 07:56:04 a well-written one, yes Mar 14 07:56:22 rwhitby: I'd think so, since if the packager is smart they can clean up... but if preremove is not run there's no way to clean up Mar 14 07:58:43 now, if the preremove script fails in that circumstance, should the package still be removed anyway? Mar 14 07:59:40 rwhitby: you mean marked as not installed? Mar 14 08:00:00 or rather, removed from the installed packages db Mar 14 08:01:09 jacques: I mean remove from database and have installed files removed Mar 14 08:01:34 well, maybe cleanest to simply not remove a package if postinstall failed... but throw up a big "Package script failed" like dialog and leave it to the user to decide what to do. if the user chooses to remove it, then remove it no matter what else fails.. ? Mar 14 08:02:06 unfortunately, we don't have that level of interaction Mar 14 08:02:35 rwhitby: well, you've got script warnings, right? :) ... oh well. Mar 14 08:03:03 and there's no way I'm leaving that choice up to the user, meaning that I have an exponentially large permutations of half-installed packages ... Mar 14 08:03:42 rwhitby: then you've answered your question. remove the package even if further scripts fail Mar 14 08:04:53 however, take a patch - if the prerm fails, then it's likely the patch is still applied, so you don't want to remove it from the package database while the files are still modified Mar 14 08:09:03 rwhitby: hard choice. trust the user to fix it, or not... or have different rules for different types ... or let packagers set a flag somehow that it's not safe to remove if scripts fail Mar 14 08:09:32 now i'm getting a failed to stat libpng12.so* Mar 14 08:10:41 rwhitby: ever thought of having a release branch or tag that points to a known-good cross compile setup? :) Mar 14 08:11:15 rwhitby: ... or is ubuntu changing underneath you? Mar 14 08:12:15 oh, cr... I'd better go to sleep. Mar 14 08:12:27 darronb: once we get a stable build, yes :-) Mar 14 08:12:36 heheh. Mar 14 08:12:58 darronb: ok, it just worked right through for me for armv7. i686 still fails of course. Mar 14 08:13:18 ah, okay... i see that now Mar 14 08:13:19 (we still haven't worked out how to get the i686 rootfs out of the Emulator) Mar 14 08:13:36 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware#Adding_Custom_Feeds Mar 14 08:13:48 That's my first wiki edit ever Mar 14 08:14:07 well, i gotta go to sleep. later all. Mar 14 08:14:40 gollyzila: name should be "webosinternals-testing", no capitals Mar 14 08:14:54 ok Mar 14 08:15:06 and you'll need a "webos-internals-testing-armv7" feed too (for the Pre, armv6 or Pixi, i686 for emulator) Mar 14 08:15:23 with 'all' replaced by armv7, armv6 or i686 in the URL Mar 14 08:15:51 make sure you tell people to backspace to get rid of the initial capital letter in the name Mar 14 08:16:21 why cant the name be capitalized? Mar 14 08:18:32 gollyzila: cause then you won't get the same result as the other places where it tells people how to install the testing feeds manually. Consistency is king. Mar 14 08:19:19 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware#Adding_Custom_Feeds Mar 14 08:19:23 is that good so far? Mar 14 08:19:56 yep Mar 14 08:20:14 compare it to http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Testing_Feeds for the exact syntax Mar 14 08:20:43 thanks Mar 14 08:22:54 widk stable tag is stable-2010-03-14 Mar 14 08:28:34 and don't forget the compression toggle doesn't work yet Mar 14 08:29:19 * jacques don't need no steenkin stable Mar 14 08:33:08 * mjkjr realized the clock says 3:30AM, how to tell if it's already been set forward or not? lol Mar 14 08:34:23 mjkjr: it's 10:20pm http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=63 Mar 14 08:36:09 my clock jumped forward at 2am Mar 14 08:36:12 rwhitby: in australia? Mar 14 08:36:42 i'm just trying to figure out if it's really 330 or if i need to set my clock to 430, ha ha Mar 14 08:36:46 mjkjr: no, that's just the weirdest time I could find to give you. It's GMT+13:45 Mar 14 08:38:32 how do i add a code box in the wiki? Mar 14 08:40:12 * mjkjr got the correct time confirmed and thanks the microwave Mar 14 08:40:14 mjkjr: what tz are you in? Mar 14 08:40:53 central, I'm pretty sure it's 3:30, ha ha. It's too late, or too early depending on how you look at it to be trying to figure that stuff out Mar 14 08:42:26 mjkjr: yes, it's 3:42 now Mar 14 08:44:23 would've sucked if i set the clocks forward an extra hour, my weekends are already too short Mar 14 08:53:41 I can't delete feeds in preware, I swipe the feed and push delete, the feed will disappear but comes right back when I look at my feeds again Mar 14 08:54:57 s/delete feeds/delete the feeds I have added/ Mar 14 08:54:57 mjkjr meant: I can't delete the feeds I have added in preware, I swipe the feed and push delete, the feed will disappear but comes right back when I look at my feeds again Mar 14 08:58:44 would anyone like to try and delete a feed? lol Mar 14 09:05:09 mjkjr: you have to wait until a notification pops up asking you to delete a feed Mar 14 09:05:49 like the 'delete' and 'cancel' notification? Mar 14 09:06:27 i swipe the feed away, have an option to delete or cancel, so i push delete and it deletes, but if i leave the screen and go back into feed management it's there again Mar 14 09:06:28 nope. Once you press delete, a black box should slide up from the bottom Mar 14 09:06:39 just wait a bit Mar 14 09:06:54 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware#Adding_Custom_Feeds How's this so far rwhitby? Mar 14 09:07:44 gollyzila: ok, but you don't give the name to use for the architecture-specific feeds Mar 14 09:08:02 hmmm, i let it sit there for a while, I get the popup when adding but not deleting. i'll try again and be more patient this time. Mar 14 09:08:55 rwhitby: can't people name it what ever they want? Mar 14 09:09:57 yeah I'm not getting the popup after i press delete from manage feeds. maybe i'll restart my device. Mar 14 09:12:47 When was Preware last updated? i only see this in the repo "LastUpdated":"1267830669" Mar 14 09:15:06 http://www.unixtimestamp.com/index.php Mar 14 09:15:08 ;) Mar 14 09:15:08 * jacques goes to sleep. Mar 14 09:15:22 TIME STAMP: 1267830669 Mar 14 09:15:22 DATE: 03 / 05 / 10 @ 5:11:09pm Mar 14 09:21:48 restarted device, still can't get this 'black box' to pop up when trying to delete this messed up feed Mar 14 09:22:49 HAHA, gollyzilla i figured it out!!!! Mar 14 09:23:12 s/gollyzilla/gollyzila Mar 14 09:24:00 the feed must be set to ON or it won't delete. if the feed is set to OFF it's a never ending loop Mar 14 09:27:26 oooohh Mar 14 09:28:10 rwhitby, for example the 'Optware' feed loads from two addresses 'armv7' and 'all'. can i add two addresses like that for a custom feed or do they need to be individual Mar 14 09:33:21 gollyzila: yeah, I tried deleting the added feeds about 10 times and the black box wouldn't pop up while they were set to 'OFF', switched them to 'ON' and it worked perfectly. LOL, maybe you could confirm that Mar 14 09:34:04 probably because it the file is renamed when its disabled Mar 14 09:34:12 a bug like that would make sense to me Mar 14 09:34:26 that the delete isn't trying to delete both file names Mar 14 09:34:39 mjkjr: yup, youre right Mar 14 09:34:46 rwhitby ^ Mar 14 09:34:54 (for when you see this in the logs) Mar 14 09:34:56 :) Mar 14 09:35:42 that might be good to note in the wiki or whatever you're working on. could save some headache and questions (thought i read you were working on that) Mar 14 09:36:26 i have nothing to do with the service, just hte mojo part :) Mar 14 09:36:54 I can add it to the wiki Mar 14 09:37:12 sorry oil, that was at gollyzila cause i read something about wiki earlier Mar 14 09:37:26 But is this a bug? Mar 14 09:37:39 you got my note about the compress toggle not working, also, right? Mar 14 09:37:55 right now it always sends true Mar 14 09:38:13 that code shouldn't have been released, lol Mar 14 09:38:41 I didnt realize that was meant for me. So i should just make a note that it doesnt work? Mar 14 09:39:09 if you're already there adding the note about deleting, why not :) Mar 14 09:39:52 where should i put the note about deleting? feed management and/or known bugs? Mar 14 09:40:20 i would probably put it at the top of the part that explains the feed management Mar 14 09:40:37 and head it with known bugs Mar 14 09:40:46 i need help, so for example the optware feeds from "all" and "arm7". how can i add two addresses like that to a feed i'm adding? Mar 14 09:41:19 just do two feed files Mar 14 09:41:33 they don't have to be together like the automatically installed feeds Mar 14 09:41:59 and the interface doesn't support doing that Mar 14 09:42:13 i know they can be two seperate feed files, but i want them both in one feed though, i'm picky Mar 14 09:42:30 vi Mar 14 09:42:30 oil: there already is a Known Bugs section a few scrolls down. Mar 14 09:42:39 gollyzila, i would put it both places then Mar 14 09:42:46 okee dokee Mar 14 09:42:47 but i dont know anything about wikis Mar 14 09:42:48 lol Mar 14 09:42:57 if you think it should be the other way, thats fine with me Mar 14 09:43:07 ok i'll add in my two feeds again, i was just trying to clean up a little. thought maybe i could use a : or ; Mar 14 09:43:09 I don't either, i just started a few hours ago Mar 14 09:43:17 lol Mar 14 09:43:35 i think preware is the largest app page Mar 14 09:45:47 I don't get my png loaded... hm Mar 14 09:46:06 I've added -lpng -lz but still nothing Mar 14 09:46:18 do I need to setup SDL_image before use? Mar 14 09:46:26 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware#Known_bugs Mar 14 09:46:39 i just put it into the Known Bugs section Mar 14 09:47:30 i feel that if a person believe what they're experiencing is a bug, they'll check that section first. Mar 14 09:50:11 why can't i see any of the changes Mar 14 09:52:12 in the wiki? Mar 14 09:52:27 gollyzila, i dont think many people read the wiki when they have problems Mar 14 09:52:31 i could be totally wrong though Mar 14 09:53:01 oil: i think so too. the first place they'd go to would be Precentral Mar 14 09:53:10 i've read the wiki a lot, but i'm one of those people who like to solve my own problems if i can first Mar 14 09:53:15 then people would tell them to go to the wiki Mar 14 09:53:37 yeah go to p|c and start a thread about it, lol Mar 14 09:54:19 gollyzila: every link you post to the wike i don't see the updates, weird... Mar 14 09:54:42 s/the updates/the changes/ Mar 14 09:54:42 mjkjr meant: gollyzila: every link you post to the wike i don't see the changes, weird... Mar 14 09:55:09 try manually typing in www.webos-internals.org Mar 14 09:55:13 s/wike/wiki Mar 14 09:55:43 * mjkjr can't type, maybe because it's almost 5am Mar 14 09:59:12 gollyzila, on the main page i still don't see the changes, but when i 'View Source' at the top of the page I see your changes. maybe it has some sort of delay before it updates? Mar 14 09:59:37 Maybe, i dont know that much about wiki yets Mar 14 09:59:52 s/yets/yet/ Mar 14 09:59:53 gollyzila meant: Maybe, i dont know that much about wiki yet Mar 14 10:03:40 Woah, it is late on the pacific side. Just realized the DST kicked in(or out, not sure which one) Mar 14 10:05:10 lol, yeat it suprised me too, it's 5am here Mar 14 10:06:03 i never know when it is or isn't DST, i just remember spring forward and fall back Mar 14 10:09:10 Hey I've never heard of that. I'm going to remember that now Mar 14 10:12:25 The wiki isn't showing the changes because I didn't mark it as minor changes, thus it is being sent for review. Let me see if I can fix that Mar 14 10:12:59 oh, so probably rwhitby or someone has to approve it Mar 14 10:13:40 gollyzila: did you log into the wiki? Mar 14 10:13:57 Yes, I did. I just marked it as minor edit Mar 14 10:14:23 I see 9 changes in the last 2 hours Mar 14 10:15:10 Yeah, that was me hehe Mar 14 10:20:21 (-1)^½ heart pi Mar 14 10:24:52 I'm pretty excited about the upcoming Internalz v1.0 that Jason will be releasing soon. Mar 14 10:27:31 me too, didn't think that app could get much better, i'm pretty sure it's the only file management app for webos Mar 14 10:27:36 that i know of Mar 14 10:27:57 rwhitby: you are still here? Mar 14 10:38:13 wth. the yelp api does not have access to your bookmarks. Mar 14 10:39:49 * Mercury is still trying to figure out how to manage flags on contacts. Mar 14 10:42:54 MetaView: yep Mar 14 10:47:56 just a dumb question, when I compile a SDL application and run it on the pre, will it be fully integrated into webOS, like will it have a card and everything? Mar 14 10:49:38 bsm: yes Mar 14 10:50:40 thanks rwhitby, lets see if exult aka ultima VII runs. Mar 14 11:15:58 rwhitby: Duke3D 1.0.8 can be published Mar 14 11:16:18 it shows an error (inspired from vboy) Mar 14 11:17:10 MetaView: pushed to autobuilder Mar 14 11:17:16 ok Mar 14 11:17:34 Do I need to change something in the future? Mar 14 11:17:54 MetaView: no, it's in your hands now in apps/duke3d/Makefile Mar 14 11:18:14 ok, thx for all your help Mar 14 11:18:55 mention @webosinternals in your announcement tweet and I'll retweet it Mar 14 11:19:14 ok, fine :) Mar 14 11:23:46 MetaView: oh, we'll need to change the icon and screenshot URLs, cause otherwise they will load down the gitweb server Mar 14 11:24:06 oh, ok Mar 14 11:24:08 how? Mar 14 11:24:13 MetaView: they should point to static URLs - preferably cached ones line in our wiki images Mar 14 11:24:14 in the Makefile, right? Mar 14 11:24:18 yep Mar 14 11:24:30 easiest is just to upload to wiki, and then give that URL in the Makefile Mar 14 11:24:31 ok, I'll change it Mar 14 11:52:11 grrr Mar 14 11:52:21 grrr? Mar 14 11:52:33 pre clock adjusted the alarm along with DST Mar 14 11:52:43 now I've lost two hours instead of one Mar 14 11:52:47 oh, you had DST Mar 14 11:53:00 we have 2 more weeks Mar 14 11:53:10 i was sitting here fighting with my computer thinking it was to 8 when it was actually to 7 Mar 14 11:53:31 i have to be in church by 8, so I'm ticked off at webos rightnow Mar 14 11:53:53 alarm was supposed to go off at 7, and it went off at 6 instead Mar 14 11:58:07 good morning then Mar 14 11:58:14 rwhitby: changed Mar 14 11:58:42 how to set the my wiki article to Apps: SDL category? Mar 14 11:59:14 MetaView: dunno Mar 14 11:59:21 (but it's standard MediaWiki) Mar 14 12:08:01 hey Mar 14 12:11:19 i'm adding some german translations to preware .. found some untranslated stuff in luna-manager Mar 14 12:11:48 hope no one else is working on that Mar 14 12:18:48 thx Mar 14 12:19:55 * rwhitby bbt Mar 14 13:25:09 hm, Preware updated Duke3D and the upstart service. But there was no request to restart java, only an OK for the installation. Now the Pre in hanging and I have to use sym+or+r to restart it. Mar 14 13:25:59 Is that a bug/problem or did the update of services do not need a restart anymore? I had the same problem by an other servie update some days ago too. Mar 14 13:49:48 Duke3D doesn't need a Java restart, don't know about the service Mar 14 13:51:40 Are there any good instructions for getting freetether running on 1.4 anywhere? Mar 14 13:52:39 MetaView: I dieden't expect that Duke was the problem. I expected that the upstart service update would ask for a java restart Mar 14 13:53:32 MetaView: Teste Duke. The controls in the new version are better. Error message is showing when game files are missing. Thanks, keep going :-) Mar 14 13:54:44 cool, next will be Midi music and sound later on Mar 14 13:54:49 MetaView: You know that the kernal is complainig about alingment? Mar 14 13:54:51 2010-03-14T13:53:47.190582Z [1221] palm-webos-device kern.warning kernel: [ 1221.710000] Alignment trap: duke3d (2936) PC=0x001116f0 Instr=0xe1d330b0 Address=0x36df98ab FSR 0x001 Mar 14 13:55:16 bbl Mar 14 13:55:22 ups Mar 14 13:55:49 hm, then I need to check my Palm OS port, I'm sure I fixed it there already Mar 14 13:55:53 Not sure how importend it is. I only know that from the M740AV project that was a very tim consuming part if the kernal has to 'fix' the alingment Mar 14 13:55:57 will do, ok ,thx for the report Mar 14 13:56:05 your welcome Mar 14 13:56:08 Palm OS was just crashing.... Mar 14 13:56:21 ok, I'm off, bbl Mar 14 13:56:37 only was checking the messages from my vpnc clinet. If it was the problem for the blocking and saw the messages Mar 14 13:56:46 MetaView: BY Mar 14 13:59:07 MetaView: what is the control? Joystick or Mouse. It is to fast for me... Mar 14 13:59:32 ping rwhitby Mar 14 15:01:02 rwhitby: ping Mar 14 16:20:21 Hello, I seem to be having an issue with Preware. It seems that I don't see all of the apps from the WebOS Internals feed, I'm missing, among others, JSTop and all of the QT demos. Running Preware 0.9.28 on a Bell Palm Pre with WebSO1.4 Mar 14 16:27:26 has anyone tried the Duke3D port? Mar 14 16:30:15 desc says some files from the desktop version are needed. but to find out any more details you pretty much have to install the game and run it once to view the readme. Mar 14 16:31:13 is there a wiki on this becaue I can't find one? Mar 14 16:37:15 ask metaview, he should be here Mar 14 16:37:19 about duke3d Mar 14 16:41:45 metaview: i have some genereal duke3d questions. could you answer them if you're in here? Mar 14 16:45:00 mjkjr: you need duke3d.grp, game.con, user.con and defs.con from the original game Mar 14 16:46:34 hape: thank you, i know i need those ones, I was really wondering how hard they are to get or where I could stumble across them if I don't have the game Mar 14 16:47:41 theat is from the readme.txt that should be in the Duke3D folder on the usb drive of your Pre: Mar 14 16:47:48 ou need the following files in the Duke3D directory on your internal drive: Mar 14 16:47:51 DEFS.CON Mar 14 16:47:53 DUKE3D.GRP Mar 14 16:47:56 GAME.CON Mar 14 16:47:59 USER.CON Mar 14 16:48:22 mjkjr: Don't know but I would give google a try Mar 14 16:50:49 * mjkjr is googling.... Mar 14 16:51:34 mjkjr: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=download+duke3d Mar 14 16:51:36 :-) Mar 14 16:52:54 lol, never seen that before, :-) Mar 14 16:53:07 hey, the location of the store is connected to the palm profile, right? Mar 14 16:53:18 nice page if someone is to lasy to google .... Mar 14 16:54:05 and is there any way to actually delete a profile? I know that resetting the device will allow me to create a new one, but I'd like to keep the current email address if possible Mar 14 16:55:46 hape, i'm not too lazy, just didn't even consider that i could actually download the game. i'm remembering that site. Mar 14 16:57:05 you can find a lot of the old dos games online. For the most of the the licence owners do not care anymore. As nobudy would buy it now ... Mar 14 17:33:06 hey guys, i'm trying to chat on #webos but it says 'cannot send to channel'. anyone know how I can chat on there? Mar 14 17:33:49 * mjkjr grins widely as duke3d starts on the pre Mar 14 17:34:25 topher_: check topic Mar 14 17:55:26 Ohai Mar 14 18:16:27 does anyone know the start-to-finish steps to doctoring a pre that has not been activated yet? help? i cant find anything anywhere! Mar 14 18:29:17 Hey Mar 14 18:42:05 sofia_: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/How_To_Recover Mar 14 19:14:43 rwhitby: is it enough to soldier one wire on wrt54gs to do a serial loopback test? Mar 14 19:15:33 mjkjr: thx! i was just reading it and i'm a bit confused by all the steps involved. i'm fairly new at all this... do all the steps apply to me? Mar 14 19:15:58 mh, is there something like die/destroy for an mojo application? Mar 14 19:18:53 sofia_: For the most part I'd probably say yes. Once you download the doctor, run it, connect your device, 30 min to 1 hour later you have a fresh doctored device. Mar 14 19:21:28 sofia_: even easier, if you have webos qi just connect your device like regular, then from webos qi click 'file' then 'options' then just hit the 'Panic Button' Mar 14 19:22:58 hi Mar 14 19:24:40 ho Mar 14 19:24:49 hi metaview Mar 14 19:47:49 mjkjr: well, thats certainly much easier, by far! im gonna try that! i also just found this, which can help as well, but if it is a different version than the phone im deactivating & swapping from i'm gonna end up having to doctor it anyways. Mar 14 19:52:05 sofia_: the way with webos qi will use whatever version of doctor you have in the same folder. I keep each doctor version in it's own folder with a copy of webOS qi, don't know if that makes sense or not Mar 14 19:59:28 hey, rwhitby :) A few weeks ago you mentioned that you had a GSM Pre running with the American App Catalog by using a US Sim card when creating the profile Mar 14 19:59:45 do I remember that right? Mar 14 20:13:59 mjkjr: sorry, i'm back, fw crashed and lost the session and everything on it! i got ur last msg about the folders. thx! i didnt know that! i see the difference now. i have the doctor for each version on separate folders as well, so i'll just place a copy of the wosqi on both folders depending on the version it is. & also, sorry, forgot to include the link: http://ws.palm.com/webosdoctor/serialnumberinitial.htm Mar 14 20:16:56 sofia_: lol, yeah i have a pre and pixi so having the folders setup like that really helps keep things straight. Mar 14 20:20:18 does anybody have the shell script to install preware handy? Mar 14 20:20:38 rb2k: wget http://bit.ly/preware-bootstrap Mar 14 20:21:07 Is anyone having issues with pre automatically restarting when trying to navagate from the camera to the photo roll? Mar 14 20:21:59 thanks swisstomcat Mar 14 20:24:12 mjkjr: agree! its easy to lose control. too many updates, too many files & versions... staying organized is necessary. but thx for the wosqi copy on each version's folder info. i would have never known why it wasnt working when i did it. Mar 14 20:25:57 sofia_: agree. glad I was able to be some sort of help. Mar 14 20:29:02 mjkjr: how would u do it if in my situation? im swapping devices but they both need to be the same version so the profile & db r compatibles & i dont mess it up. i dont know what version the new device is so i have to either find out or just dr it with the old ones version before i swap and its too late Mar 14 20:35:12 sofia_: what do you mean? I was on 1.4 with my pixi, on friday I got my new pre which had 1.3.1. I backed up everything from my pixi, then signed into my profile on the pre, then just updated the pre OTA to 1.4 and reinstalled my backed up stuff. no issues at all. Mar 14 20:35:59 i'm either overthing your question or you're overthing the process of swapping phones Mar 14 20:36:17 s/overthing/over thinking/ Mar 14 20:36:18 mjkjr meant: i'm either over thinking your question or you're overthing the process of swapping phones Mar 14 20:42:34 If I doctor my pre, will it automatically reinstall paid apps? Mar 14 20:43:18 it should Mar 14 20:45:23 thanks. Mar 14 20:48:50 it's saved in your palm profile Mar 14 20:52:01 weird, my palm profile now even says I'm in the US (which I am), but still no paid apps O_o Mar 14 20:53:05 does anybody know how the Pre is actually linked to a shop? Mar 14 20:53:56 maybe it takes a while before the apps come back? Mar 14 20:54:22 swisstomcat, was that answer for me? :) Mar 14 20:54:33 yeah Mar 14 20:54:37 hmmm Mar 14 20:54:50 they haven't ever been there Mar 14 20:54:54 I moved to the US from Germany Mar 14 20:55:02 had a german pre with german sim Mar 14 20:55:06 now a german pre with us sim Mar 14 20:55:13 erased it, set up a new profile Mar 14 20:55:17 still, no .us apps Mar 14 20:55:31 for the facebook beta it says that the app is not available in my country Mar 14 20:57:32 oh Mar 14 20:58:04 did you do a full erase? Mar 14 20:58:14 hmmm, only apps and data Mar 14 20:58:20 and activated the new profile in the us and with the us sim card? Mar 14 20:58:25 yes Mar 14 20:58:28 I did that Mar 14 20:58:36 i thought it was set on activation Mar 14 20:58:43 me too Mar 14 20:58:52 i might just call palm Mar 14 20:58:56 rwhitby did something similar with his imported phone from germany Mar 14 20:59:25 yeha, he seems to be afk though Mar 14 21:00:05 weird, anyone else have their clock screen update for daylight savings time but not the top status bar thing with the time? Mar 14 21:00:42 speaking of calling palm, I haven't been able to access their online chat support in over a week Mar 14 21:00:52 rb2k: I think you need to get someone with a sprint pre to set you up a palm profile Mar 14 21:01:00 arghhhhhhhh Mar 14 21:01:15 it cares what network is used at profile creation Mar 14 21:03:20 is the palm chat still the weird .exe file? Mar 14 21:07:49 When I put my info in to contact them it pulls up what looks like a partically loaded website Mar 14 21:07:57 same results in IE and Firefox Mar 14 21:08:04 destinal-home: Woah i just realized I have the same problem. The lockscreen time is fine, but the top bar is one hour late Mar 14 21:08:05 on multiple computer Mar 14 21:08:08 oh, same for chrome Mar 14 21:08:09 rb2k: you don't remember right. I have both GSM and Sprint devices. Mar 14 21:08:16 hi rwhitby Mar 14 21:08:33 rwhitby: how do i go about testing preware? Mar 14 21:08:34 ok, so you used the sprint device to setup a profile and just logged in with the gsm one Mar 14 21:09:49 rb2k: no, I use the sprint device with the sprint profile to access the sprint catalogue with a US debit card. I use the GSM device with a sim and a GSM profile to access the .eu app catalog. Mar 14 21:10:36 swisstomcat: test which version? Mar 14 21:10:44 ok, so no US catalog on EU device Mar 14 21:11:04 rwhitby: the translation changes i made for luna manager Mar 14 21:11:14 rb2k: you'd need to bypass authentication steps somehow to do that Mar 14 21:11:45 swisstomcat: oh, just palm-package and palm-install Mar 14 21:12:11 rwhitby: ok, and if it still works afterwards submit the changes? :) Mar 14 21:12:33 yep Mar 14 21:12:39 ok, will do Mar 14 21:12:43 make sure you test different languages on the device Mar 14 21:14:25 g'night everyone Mar 14 21:14:32 night swisstomcat Mar 14 21:17:45 * mjkjr is greatly enjoying his recent switch from pixi to pre =) Mar 14 21:19:05 mjkjr: sorry, but my fw keeps crashing & freezing & im not sure if u replied to my last question. did u? Mar 14 21:20:12 [15:34] sofia_: what do you mean? I was on 1.4 with my pixi, on friday I got my new pre which had 1.3.1. I backed up everything from my pixi, then signed into my profile on the pre, then just updated the pre OTA to 1.4 and reinstalled my backed up stuff. no issues at all. Mar 14 21:21:04 sofia_: i'm either over thinking your question or you're over thinking the process of swapping phones Mar 14 21:24:09 yeah well i cant just only use the profile cuz i need to be able to transfer the SMSs, phone calls log etc, & all that is not backed up w/ the profile so im going to try copying over the palmdb file and it needs to be the same version if not the file will get corrupted & will not work. Mar 14 21:27:24 I wonder why someone with SQL skills hasn't written a transfer app yet .. Mar 14 21:27:40 lazyness? Mar 14 21:28:18 I haven't because I have no need to keep call or SMS logs. Mar 14 21:28:18 sofia_: understood. so just don't transfer your db backup until after the new phone is on the current OS. Mar 14 21:28:40 * rwhitby bbl Mar 14 21:29:59 i have no need for it either, not important enough to save sms and call log for me. However there is a backup app in the testing feeds labeled as "Extremely Experimental" Mar 14 21:34:26 mjkjr: i guess im confused with what exactly will happen if i activate the phone and login to my profile, then update the version if its isnt the recent one, then copying over the file. how would that work? im afraid it will corrupt something so im still researching on what it is that i should do first, u know? not sure if im explaining myself clear enough Mar 14 21:36:47 sofia: it will work just like you said. I'm assuming your on 1.4 on the current device, so after you sign into the new device and update it to 1.4 just put your backed up stuff back on there. Mar 14 21:37:57 mjkjr: i text a lot for work & theres a lot of work info that i need & cant lose, the same goes for the phone calls log, historical purposes. since there isnt any other way other than writing it by hand, which is kind of crazy, i thought the fastest less complicated way would be by backing up that file. Mar 14 21:38:31 yes 1.4 on my current one, im planning on doctoring the new one with the same version Mar 14 21:39:13 sofia: well i'd say you have nothing to worry about then and should be fine IMO Mar 14 21:39:50 would u use the app u mentioned? could i use it and then if it doesnt work, no harm done by doctoring it again and do what u said first? Mar 14 21:40:17 IMO? Mar 14 21:45:21 well i'd make your db backup first, just to be safe. if you read the description of the backup app there is a chance data could actually be lost. i guess the route you choose is really a matter of what you feel more comfortable with Mar 14 21:48:31 mjkjr: yeah i know, thats why im so concerned & nervous about screwing it up, since ive never done anything like this & i really dont have any dev tools or advanced training like u guys. Mar 14 21:52:30 on my search i found this & i wanted to ask u guys about it: what is the Backup Utility (applications/palmprebackup.git) for? there was not much info (so far from what I found), that i could understand online. i also found something called WebOS Internals Meta-Doctor but I havent had time to read about it and find out if it can help me or not. would u know? Mar 14 21:56:27 what's IMO? ---from an earlier reply--- Mar 14 21:57:11 in my opinion Mar 14 21:59:55 thx! tibfib! ;) Mar 14 22:04:12 mjkjr: yeah i copied the file a few days ago & i have several copies of it in case anything happens. Mar 14 22:05:37 Does anyone have any idea where to look or how to change the voicemail number on a CDMA phone? Mar 14 22:06:26 I thought it would be in CarrierNetworkSettings.db3 but I could not find it. Mar 14 22:07:12 rwhitby: hi! ;) i asked mjkjr earlier but i realized that you're involved or the author of these so in case u can help me with this i could ask u: on my search i found this & i wanted to ask u guys about it: what is the Backup Utility (applications/palmprebackup.git) for? there was not much info (so far from what I found), that i could understand online. i also found something called WebOS Internals Meta-Doctor but I ha Mar 14 22:11:43 PuffTheMagic: you around? I know you hate sb2 ;), but did you ever try it? I have a gentoo buddy who's having difficulty with the WIDK. mostly it's failing to handle the LD_PRELOAD on libsb2, which causes everything else to break Mar 14 22:11:58 i'd imagine not gentoo related, but that said maybe some defaults, etc, just wondering if you'd tried/ran into something similar Mar 14 22:15:24 mjkjr: were u referring to the app u mentioned (in the testing feeds labeled as "Extremely Experimental") when u wrote about the backup risk above? would u use it? where are these testing feeds? can i access it? Mar 14 22:31:06 good night Mar 14 22:57:07 good night Mar 14 23:01:59 Can anyone tell me how to update the webOS version on a MetaDoctored phone? The built-in update functionality isn't working for me, maybe because the phone isn't connected to a cell provider. Does this only work over a cell network and not WiFi? Is there a way to make it get updates from Palm over WiFi? The actual problem that I'm running into is that Preware isn't letting me install or update apps because it doesn't like my web Mar 14 23:06:29 Jeah: you either need to get a palm profile so you can do OTA updates, or you need to re-doctor with the newer version. Mar 14 23:06:54 you don't need to be connected to a cellular provider to update. I do it all the time on my Sprint Pre in Australia. Mar 14 23:06:58 rwhitby: Ok, so the updates will work over WiFi if I set up a Palm profile? Mar 14 23:07:02 yep Mar 14 23:07:16 rwhitby: Ok, thanks. If I re-Doctor, will it nuke the aforementioned goodies? Mar 14 23:07:31 yep Mar 14 23:07:37 rwhitby: Ok, thank you. Mar 14 23:08:17 rwhitby: Will updating OTA undo any Meta-Doctoring? Mar 14 23:08:22 no Mar 14 23:08:40 Nice. Installed patches and stuff will come along, too, then? Mar 14 23:08:55 with OTA, yes. with doctoring, no. Mar 14 23:09:07 rwhitby: Ok, I think that's all I've got. Thank you. Mar 14 23:10:24 oil: getting lots of these in messages: 2010-03-14T23:10:08.410392Z [16681] qemux86 user.crit LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgrJS}: org.webosinternals.preware: Uncaught TypeError: Cannot call method 'get' of undefined, file:///media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.preware/app/assistants/ipkg-log-assistant.js:31 Mar 14 23:10:45 Anyone have any idea where the voicemail numbers are stored? CDMA users cannot change their vm number. Mar 14 23:11:40 Tried to change CarrierNetworkSettings.db3, but that did not work. Mar 14 23:19:49 * mjkjr just sold the pixi for $175, the buyer is stoked to go home and install preware now after i showed him how great it is on the pre =) Mar 14 23:23:08 rwhitby: hi! ;) WEUC! --- i asked mjkjr earlier but i realized that you're involved or the author of these so in case u can help me with this i could ask u: on my search i found this & i wanted to ask u guys about it: what is the Backup Utility (applications/palmprebackup.git) for? there was not much info (so far from what I found), that i could understand online. i also found something called WebOS Internals Meta-Docto Mar 14 23:23:43 there's a thread on the backup utility - the author hasn't worked on it for months. Mar 14 23:23:53 meta-doctor will not help you with backup or restore Mar 14 23:24:25 He Rod, do you have any idea where to change the voicemail number? Mar 14 23:24:51 Mark_M: cdma? you can't Mar 14 23:25:12 sofia: read up on sqlite3, and then dump the data from the old database using "sqlite3 foo.db .dump" and work out how to insert it into the new database. at a minimum, you'll have an electronic text record of the contents of the old database. Mar 14 23:25:24 mjkmr, Bell doesn't use the subscriber's phone number for voicemail. Mar 14 23:25:47 I tried adding my desired number in CarrierNetworkSettings.db3 but that didn't work Mar 14 23:26:18 Mark_M: one min, i might have an answer Mar 14 23:26:33 I could do it the dirty way in app-assistant.js, but that is not right. Mar 14 23:28:22 rwhitby: thx! i will check on it before doing anything, JIC. i actually dont really need it on the phone, as long as i have it somewhere that is readable, it doesnt matter where. so if i can make it work on the lt using that dump tool, its good enough with me! Mar 14 23:29:34 rwhitby: pong Mar 14 23:30:58 rwhitby: (oops sorry, used the wrong browser the one that kept freezing to reply by mistake) thx! i will check on it before doing anything, JIC. i actually dont really need it on the phone, as long as i have it somewhere that is readable, it doesnt matter where. so if i can make it work on the lt using that dump tool, its good enough with me! Mar 14 23:31:32 rwhitby, that doesn't make any sense Mar 14 23:32:01 is it only after looking at the log? Mar 14 23:32:12 Ever notice how Windows will not connect to the Pre after several connections/disconnections? Time for a reboot, but need to wait for a response from mjkjr. Mar 14 23:32:25 oil: clearly you forgot to define get :> Mar 14 23:32:38 of this.controller? Mar 14 23:32:40 Mark_M: did you go to the dialer hit *28XXXXXXXXXX the X's resemble your voicemail number Mar 14 23:32:43 palm should be doing that Mar 14 23:33:11 mjkjr, that part is working fine. I can call my phone and Google Voice will record a message Mar 14 23:33:40 I just want to change the "tape recorder" button and speed dial #1 on my phone to call my GV voicemail. Mar 14 23:33:54 Mark_M: ok cool, so you're trying to add your number to the one key Mar 14 23:34:19 mjkjr, that is correct Mar 14 23:34:36 rwhitby: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=applications/preware.git;a=commitdiff;h=2d9cd291e722b288ed2e5a5834d7fb40a4303bf5 ? Mar 14 23:34:44 I just want to use the key to call GV since Gdial Pro is gone. Mar 14 23:35:30 On CDMA phones we do not have the manual settings like the GSM versions. Mar 14 23:36:42 mjkjr, I wish *28 worked when we call from our phones. Mar 14 23:37:57 Mark_M: Sorry I can't help with that part, actually was working on that myself but gave up. It's just not possible (or too much work for me) on CDMA so I've accepted it Mar 14 23:38:38 Mark_M: what do you mean? *28 followed directly with the number doesn't work for you when you call it? Mar 14 23:38:59 mjkjr, I found where the query is made to the database, so I figured that all I need to do is change the number in the database. Not so simple. Mar 14 23:40:08 mjkjr, I'll have to look at app-assistant.js again paying more attention. For now, Windows needs to reboot so I can get novacom working again. Thanks! Mar 14 23:40:46 Mark_M: yeah, "Not so simple" sounds about right. But let me know if you find anything out, Good luck! Mar 14 23:47:13 oil: seems to fix it, thanks. Mar 14 23:51:07 rwhitby: i started looking at that service today Mar 14 23:51:14 rwhitby: where is the confirmation stuff? Mar 14 23:51:52 PuffTheMagic: well, the whole security landscape changed with 1.4 Mar 14 23:52:24 installNoVerify can install ipkg with pmPostInstall.script files, which Palm runs. So there is no longer *any* homebrew security. Mar 14 23:52:44 yay! Mar 14 23:54:43 Palm strips all that stuff from app catalog submissions, so they maintain the bright line of security for stuff that is installed from the app catalog. but for homebrew, it's now the wild west again, and there's nothing we can effectively do about it. we could put up a smokescreen of confirmation screens and signing, but it would be counter-productive, cause any rogue webOS app in the com.palm namespace can now install anything as roo Mar 14 23:54:45 t. Mar 14 23:58:40 oil: the new C ipkgservice uses the palm API to remove packages that have an appinfo.json file, so should delete the cookies and databases properly now Mar 14 23:58:48 (once that C ipkgservice is deployed) Mar 15 00:02:34 rwhitby: that's kind of scary, have there been any known rogue webOS apps? Mar 15 00:04:45 rwhitby just put a disclaimer in firstrun on preware Mar 15 00:04:47 mjkjr: well, unless you count MyTether ;-), no. Mar 15 00:07:14 rwhitby: lol, that's one i've stayed away from, even though I've had the installer downloaded on my pc for a while. Just couldn't install it after reading some of the 'bad' Mar 15 00:08:22 acydlord: well, if you use Preware to install stuff, we can probably detect potential rogue apps. But we can't stop anyone using palm-install or webos quick install or fileCoaster or PreLoad to install rogue stuff. Mar 15 00:10:07 well true that. and its not like half the users listen to anything we tell them anyway. Just from looking at all the "nothing works after i upgraded" threads on preware Mar 15 00:10:15 err on precentral Mar 15 00:10:46 i didn't know people still used fileCoaster or PreLoad, doesn't Preware pretty much do the same things except better? =) Mar 15 00:11:27 fileCoaster is the #1 app downloaded from PreCentral. Mar 15 00:12:24 because it's been out longer? i don't understand Mar 15 00:13:42 oops, no now it's second on recent downloads and third on rating Mar 15 00:13:52 when i first got my device i installed fileCoaster with Preware to see what it was. Then I was like, "Hmmm, this is redundant." Mar 15 00:16:21 rwhitby, so what is number one then? Mar 15 00:16:36 http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps?order=field_recent_downloads_value&sort=desc Mar 15 00:20:41 interesting, glad to see preware is towards the top. however why does it say it was last updated in october? Mar 15 00:21:22 cause that's the last time I bothered to update that page Mar 15 00:22:45 rwhitby: so i didnt really see anything you need to change Mar 15 00:22:54 mjkjr: if we had a general purpose windows installer that didn't need anything else installed, I'd upload it there more often Mar 15 00:22:54 rwhitby: i did make a few commits that i didnt push Mar 15 00:23:06 PuffTheMagic: feel free to push, it's not used anywhere yet. Mar 15 00:23:14 well i didnt test it Mar 15 00:23:18 and its not "needed" Mar 15 00:23:19 oh, ok :-) Mar 15 00:23:22 it was more as an example for you Mar 15 00:23:27 wanna pastebin the diff then? Mar 15 00:24:39 http://paste.pocoo.org/show/189705/ Mar 15 00:25:10 rwhitby: isn't there a general purpose installer or something like it? I'm pretty sure I initially installed preware with one (like 'Preware Installer' or something?) Mar 15 00:26:32 mjkjr: there is, but it requires you to have novacom drivers installed, and it incorporates a particular version of the ipkgs, instead of grabbing the latest Mar 15 00:28:06 PuffTheMagic: I see. Very interesting, thanks. Mar 15 00:28:16 rwhitby: we can use libipkg too, and keep the old service Mar 15 00:28:29 api i mean Mar 15 00:30:41 PuffTheMagic: see /msg Mar 15 00:31:04 rwhitby, question regarding build.git set up and aupt-4 going forward. Will we want to just put all patches, bspatches and "themes" in autopatch/ directory? Mar 15 00:31:27 I'm splitting up the VKB into two packages: the vkb patch and default themes & configuration. Mar 15 00:36:44 speaking of vkb, i just switched from pixi to pre and installed the vkb, AMAZING! Mar 15 00:39:19 egaudet: don't have a good understanding of the issues to make a comment on that. Mar 15 00:39:56 rwhitby, autopatch/ contains all patch packages. But we'll also have some bspatch and theme packages now with aupt-4 extending the capabilities Mar 15 00:40:17 we can throw them all into autopatch/ or re-structure things a bit Mar 15 00:44:53 egaudet: your call, we can make the builder go across one or many subdirs Mar 15 01:06:19 how does does everyone open the slider on their pre? Mar 15 01:06:35 where do you push Mar 15 01:06:36 ? Mar 15 01:06:47 thumb on the middle of the screen Mar 15 01:07:05 +1 for middle of screen :D Mar 15 01:07:10 that def works best Mar 15 01:07:37 i was just thinking about all thouse eary reviews Mar 15 01:07:46 where people were saying to push from the bottom Mar 15 01:09:18 That creates more friction... >.< Mar 15 01:09:45 i wonder if oreo effect is correlated with pushing from the bottom Mar 15 01:10:06 well i just got my new pre friday, after all the "oreo" talk i open mine very carefully Mar 15 01:11:18 PuffTheMagic, I think you're onto something with that Mar 15 01:13:36 +1 for pushing with the middle of the screen, seems better (sturdier?) than pushing from the bottom Mar 15 01:19:19 i think the oreo effect was mostly from idiots noticing that the phone had a slight wobble so they twisted it, seen it happen IRL more than a few times Mar 15 01:27:00 acydlord, lol I made a post that stated the exact thing before. someone said "my phone was alright, but when i twisted it and I noticed it had oreo" uh... Mar 15 01:27:23 s/when/then Mar 15 01:27:29 s/when/then/ Mar 15 01:27:30 mjkjr meant: s/then/then Mar 15 01:27:37 lol Mar 15 01:27:46 i think pre's are subject to screen cracking. i noticed it looked like it might crack so i hit it with a hammer Mar 15 01:27:53 thats like saying "my screen was perfectly fine but when I smashed it with a hammer I noticed the screen cracked" Mar 15 01:28:00 lmao Mar 15 01:28:00 acydlord: LOL ;) Mar 15 01:28:11 dtzWill, great minds Mar 15 01:29:04 :D Mar 15 01:29:59 i've read a lot of "screen crack by usb door" so i've been super gentle with it, lol Mar 15 01:30:30 acydlord: the "oreo effect" refers to the "twistyness" of the pre in general Mar 15 01:30:33 ive dropped the shit out of my pre, twice, on concrete, face down Mar 15 01:30:37 i think it's pretty solid Mar 15 01:30:43 its not just for idiots that actually spun it all the way around Mar 15 01:30:49 i droped mine down a flight of cement steps Mar 15 01:31:20 i think the screen and bezel is actually quite resiliant, i dont know what they changed in the process from the first gens Mar 15 01:31:23 i dropped my pixi, but it felt solid. i've babied my pre so far just bc it feels more plasticky Mar 15 01:31:52 i'm affraid to drop my pixi, it is so light i think it might fall up Mar 15 01:32:19 Can someone help me with just one little thing I need to develop my app? Mar 15 01:32:39 depends what it is Mar 15 01:32:52 How do I change the text to white? Mar 15 01:33:08 * acydlord facepalms Mar 15 01:33:36 I've tried CSS to change the text to white, but it's just light gray Mar 15 01:34:33 it changed it to light grey instead of white? Mar 15 01:35:15 Yes Mar 15 01:35:32 I tried changing it to red, and it was still light gray Mar 15 01:36:07 sounds like you might be changing the value for the wrong text element then Mar 15 01:42:08 Sorry. My computer kinda froze. Mar 15 01:42:35 I'm using an HTML editor to build this all. Mar 15 01:44:33 rwhitby: could you change the name of the BYPASS_ACTIVATION feature in the Meta-Doc to BYPASS_PROFILE_CREATION or BYPASS_PP_CREATION or something? Or is there more that the "Palm Activation" does besides just Profile creation?? Mar 15 01:45:21 i just think when people see my guide, and they see "bypass specific-carrier activation", they automatically assume that's what that feature is... Mar 15 01:46:21 grndslm: actually, that feature has no effect on profile creation Mar 15 01:46:43 rwhitby: then what exactly does this Palm Activation consist of? Mar 15 01:47:04 it simply removes the need to activate the modem with the cellular carrier before getting to the point where Palm Profile stuff starts. Mar 15 01:48:30 so BYPASS_ACTIVATION is all about the carrier, not about Palm. Mar 15 01:49:59 rwhitby: hmm... seems like that could be thrown in BYPASS_FIRST_USE_APP, too... or vice-versa Mar 15 01:50:52 grndslm: no, they need to be separate, for CDMA vs GSM Mar 15 01:51:27 I personally use both on my CDMA phone, but only the bypass first use app on one GSM phone, and both on the other GSM phone. Mar 15 01:57:12 rwhitby: so if you want to use the phone with a carrier, BYPASS_ACTIVATION *must not* be used? And if you want to use the phone WITH Palm Profile access & WITHOUT a specific carrier, BYPASS_ACTIVATION *must* be used?? Mar 15 01:57:58 i thought i had used BYPASS_ACTIVATION to create a Palm Profile over wifi before... Mar 15 01:59:02 rwhitby: also, why does REMOVE_CARRIER_CHECK say "This is not a method to use a device on a different cellular carrier"?? Because that's what it seems to do. . . Mar 15 02:00:16 it even says that under BYPASS_FIRST_USE_APP, which *would* need to be utilized in order to use on a different carrier Mar 15 02:06:24 grndslm: both of those are necessary, but not sufficient Mar 15 02:06:57 meta-doctor makes the install vanilla. making it work on the new carrier is outside of the scope of the meta doctor (and always will be) Mar 15 02:07:17 meta-doctor makes the device work on *no* carrier. Mar 15 02:07:38 making it work on a *new* carrier is a separate step which meta-doctor does not address. Mar 15 02:11:12 rwhitby: ok.. lemme rephrase this. if somebody wanted to use an unlocked Movistar Pre on O2... they *should* be able to do so by enabling all three of these variables -- BYPASS_ACTIVATION, BYPASS_FIRST_USE_APP, REMOVE_CARRIER_CHECK??? Mar 15 02:11:23 or would they not want to BYPASS_ACTIVATION in such an instance? Mar 15 02:11:50 if they are able to use their SIM on O2, then they should activate Mar 15 02:12:08 k Mar 15 02:13:28 Well aupt-4 looks pretty much ready, just need some test success cases I guess. VKB and change user agent are in testing feed, change user agent does binary patch, VKB uses 2 packages one with the text patching stuff one with additional file logic part of aupt-4. Only thing I'm not testing (for now) is Palm file replacement (like for themes, but it should work and is ready for testing) Mar 15 02:14:51 Hi all, i posted somthing a while back but had to go. Mar 15 02:16:03 i ran cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/stats/time_in_state on a fresh Pre without patches running 1.4 Mar 15 02:16:57 neat Mar 15 02:17:26 this was the result: 600000 9873 50000 691 500000 12689 250000 0 125000 0 Mar 15 02:18:00 egaudet, i have vkb and it shows update in testing feed, what does it change? Mar 15 02:18:00 note the 600000 and 550000. Someone mentioned SDL apps use this? Mar 15 02:18:35 egaudet: so, we get the autobuilder to do a patches testing feed with this change? Mar 15 02:19:09 mjkjr, just splits it up into 2 packages, one for the text patch and one for the theme/configs Mar 15 02:19:36 So, the CPU is running up to 600mhz on its own without any patches and its spending a lot of time their. Mar 15 02:19:45 egaudet, so should i update my installed vkb and then install the vkb-default-themes patch. Or remove vkb first, then install. Mar 15 02:19:50 rwhitby, yeah and that's why I'm using the .testing scripts now, so that they can be used for the webos-patches-testing feed Mar 15 02:20:07 i'll just have to write up a new testing rule Mar 15 02:20:57 mjkjr, if you want to help test just update it. it will remove the current package and then install both others. The vkb patch package depends on the vkb default themes pacakge Mar 15 02:23:37 oh i see, shoud've figured you'd make it super easy. Mar 15 02:24:29 egaudet, is there a reason you split up vkb? Mar 15 02:25:08 mjkjr, yeah the theme/config part takes a LONG time to install/uninstall and rarely if ever is changed Mar 15 02:25:39 lol, it is taking a LONG time to install Mar 15 02:25:45 also, updating the config part of it will give a new kb_config.json file which wipes out user changes like haptic feedback, added themes etc... Mar 15 02:26:05 the patch package wil update more frquently but doesn't need to remove/update the other parts Mar 15 02:26:10 gtg for a bit Mar 15 02:26:14 * egaudet bbl Mar 15 02:29:20 I'm having an interesting thing happen with 1.4: i'll unlock it, and it wont respond then it'll restart. this happens with or without patches Mar 15 02:29:53 so does the /var partition doesn't still have a hard limit, does it?? Mar 15 02:29:55 lol Mar 15 02:32:44 grndslm: it sure does. Mar 15 02:32:52 if you have lots of email, you will fill it Mar 15 02:33:16 rwhitby: what happens at that point? you get an error? Mar 15 02:33:21 grndslm: dunno Mar 15 02:33:28 * mjkjr waited almost 10 minutes for vkb theme/config patch to install so far, lol Mar 15 02:33:34 ~holdmusic Mar 15 02:33:35 do do do doo.. doo doo do.. do do do doo.. doo doo do.. dum dum dum.. de doo do.. Mar 15 02:49:00 egaudet: can't get vkb to render Mar 15 02:53:08 rwhitby: Hey, I tried updating after setting up a Palm profile, and it still didn't work. It turned out that I had already done that anyway. When I used MetaDoctor, I enabled the Bypass Activation, Enable First Use WiFi, Make First Use Visible, Increase Var Space, Enable Developer Mode, Enable USB Networking, Disable Upload Daemon, Remove Carrier Check, Remove Model Check, and Disable Modem Update patches. Disable Modem Update so Mar 15 02:55:34 Or anyone else, if someone else has an idea why the Update function might not work. Mar 15 02:58:23 Jeah: dunno. Mar 15 02:58:48 rwhitby: But it probably shouldn't be the MetaDoctor patches? Mar 15 02:59:34 Jeah: I would suggest you use as few features as you need from meta-doctor, rather than as many as you can. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Mar 15 02:59:56 2010