**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 15 02:59:56 2010 Mar 15 02:59:59 rwhitby: Ok. Fair enough. :) Mar 15 03:01:08 rwhitby: I'll give it a try. Obviously the next step is to re-Doctor, but I'd like to avoid having to wipe the phone again next time they release a webOS update. I'll try minimizing the patches I use. At that point, though, it wasn't clear to me what they did. So unless it was obviously something I didn't want, I went for it. Mar 15 03:02:05 rwhitby: BTW, is there a reason that Preware is so particular about the OS version running in order to update apps? The App Catalog allowed me to update the Facebook app, even though Preware insisted that it didn't like my webOS version. Mar 15 03:02:33 rwhitby: Are the dependencies that picky? Or is it just easier to have a blanket policy? Mar 15 03:05:28 i believe it loads into a specific category. i.e. ipkg.wateva.org/apps/webos-1.4.0/ Mar 15 03:06:14 imop45: Is there a way that you know of to switch to an older category? Mar 15 03:06:32 imop45: Or are all the apps moved over whenever webOS/Preware are updated? Mar 15 03:06:41 Hmm, i have no idea. Mar 15 03:06:59 Jeah: preware just passes app catalog apps over to the app catalog to make the decision on whether it can install them or not. Preware makes no such OS version constraint on apps. Mar 15 03:07:17 You could try finding an older section, then in preware manaully inputting the URL Mar 15 03:07:21 Patches are the only things in Preware which are version specific. Mar 15 03:07:33 Ah, ok, thanks. Mar 15 03:07:36 * mjkjr hears on the news that google might build new fiber optic infrastructure that will make internet 100x faster in his area =) Mar 15 03:07:53 Jeah: Preware did not give you a message about not liking your webOS version - the app catalog gave you that message. Mar 15 03:08:02 rwhitby: Hm. That's extra strange then. I must have really screwed something up with over-patching. Mar 15 03:08:27 Jeah: i know how you feel, my pre is all weird on 1.4 Mar 15 03:08:35 Preware cannot install a facebook app - it simply sends the appid over to the app catalog client app to install it. You can tell this cause a whole new card is opened by the app catalog app. Mar 15 03:08:45 patching has nothing to do with this Mar 15 03:09:06 it's all about your Palm profile. nothing more, nothing less. Mar 15 03:09:11 mjkjr: A lot of cities are competing for that one. One largish city even changed it's name to Google for a week to try to get their attention. Or is your city in the lead or something? And where are you, because I'm jealous either way. Mar 15 03:09:26 rwhitby: Hm, ok. Mar 15 03:09:40 imop45: Mine's being weird about even getting to 1.4 :) Mar 15 03:09:42 mjkjr: man that would be saweeeet Mar 15 03:10:05 Jeah: oh snap Mar 15 03:11:16 hmm, an update about time_in_state. 600000 0 550000 2055 500000 502685 250000 0 125000 0 Mar 15 03:11:30 rwhitby: Ok. Maybe the profile's not loading fully or something. I'll mess around with that a little bit more and see if I can get any different results. It is funny, though, when I tried to update the Facebook app through Preware it didn't work, but when I went straight into the App Catalog, it did. Mar 15 03:11:41 I have no idea how it ran up to 600000 without any patches.. Mar 15 03:11:45 * mjkjr just knows. His city is bigger and better than the others. :-) Mar 15 03:11:54 mjkjr: Haha, nice. Mar 15 03:12:05 mjkjr: stop bragging :p Mar 15 03:12:29 mjkjr: Well, good luck. Not that you need it, apparently :) Mar 15 03:15:18 100x faster is unreal, It would take 1 minute to download a 210mb webos doctor lol Mar 15 03:16:06 mjkjr: i wish theyd come to lil ole oklahoma city.. Mar 15 03:19:47 i think i might Doctor my pre again, i did it after 1.4 but geez, im my pre is still buggy. Anyone else experiencing this? Mar 15 03:29:09 * rwhitby bbl Mar 15 03:40:11 Hello Mar 15 03:40:21 So, how exactly is Qt running on webOS? Mar 15 03:41:10 update: 600000 5960 550000 2055 500000 677890 250000 0 125000 0 Mar 15 03:41:14 oh hey, an RIT guy Mar 15 03:41:20 >_> Mar 15 03:41:31 I ran a game. so 600 mhz is used on a standard Pre Mar 15 03:41:34 Qt is just a framework, right ? Mar 15 03:41:52 yeah Mar 15 03:42:16 600000 12779 550000 2055 500000 677890 250000 0 125000 0 Mar 15 03:42:17 so - just compiled for arm and using SDL for graphics access i guess ? have you seen the source repository ? Mar 15 03:42:25 No, I haven't Mar 15 03:42:33 Yup, 3d games up to 600 mhz. Mar 15 03:42:36 that's what I was wondering -- using SDL? Mar 15 03:42:39 http://git.webos-internals.org/ Mar 15 03:42:46 I heard something about a lightweight X11 port Mar 15 03:42:56 Well no, I've seen that, I meant I have not seen the source for Qt Mar 15 03:42:56 yeah there is an x11 server Mar 15 03:42:59 Emon: check the testing feed, X is in there :) Mar 15 03:43:28 Oh, I meant in the context of Qt: Qt isn't running under X is it Mar 15 03:43:36 Emon: nope Mar 15 03:43:48 Emon: it has an sdl plugin that the porting guy wrote Mar 15 03:43:52 ok Mar 15 03:43:53 that would be horrifying :) Mar 15 03:44:00 makes sense Mar 15 03:44:10 Emon: :(. not SO horrifying :P. gtk in the x server is actually rrattthherrr responsive. Mar 15 03:44:27 maybe, still though Mar 15 03:44:30 SDL seems much preferable Mar 15 03:44:41 Emon: agreed. it's just an extra layer that gets in the way if you just want the qt stuff. Mar 15 03:44:49 yeah Mar 15 03:44:50 Emon: although I do miss having a cursor :P. Mar 15 03:44:54 X is great for porting existing apps and all Mar 15 03:45:20 Emon: and it's definitely faster, at least in the current implementation of the X server. it'snot SLOW but could be a good deal faster :) Mar 15 03:45:28 but I am more interested in writing new ones Mar 15 03:46:40 right Mar 15 03:47:12 right Mar 15 03:47:58 yup Mar 15 03:50:40 not sure if this is a known bug or perhaps just me, but everytime i try to use the terminal app on my phone it results in a freeze and the phone restarts Mar 15 03:51:14 castle`: the Terminal app hasn't been updated for webOS 1.4 yet Mar 15 03:51:22 terminal isnt compatible with 1.4 Mar 15 03:51:31 were stuck with terminus Mar 15 03:51:34 good to know Mar 15 03:51:36 thanks all Mar 15 03:51:50 i saw that in preware Mar 15 03:51:51 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application_talk:Terminal#Bug:_Update_to_WebOS_1.4.0 Mar 15 03:51:52 didn't dl it Mar 15 03:52:12 smart reflex or scaling for speed/batt save? Mar 15 03:53:03 in other news Mar 15 03:53:09 tethering is working flawlessly Mar 15 03:53:13 and i'm off, cya Mar 15 03:53:50 night Mar 15 03:55:16 egaudet: i miss my vkb already, lol Mar 15 03:55:37 mjkjr, what happened Mar 15 03:55:57 it won't render now Mar 15 03:56:06 did luna restart? Mar 15 03:56:20 you simply did update from preware? Mar 15 03:56:41 yes, and after it wouln't render i restarted my device as well Mar 15 03:56:44 both Virtual Keyboard and VKB Default themes package show as installed in preware? Mar 15 03:57:56 yes i simply hit update from preware, yes both installed in preware Mar 15 04:12:10 mjkjr, do you have terminal access? Mar 15 04:12:17 hello, I was trying to search the forum with no luck, is there any guide for getting started in how to package a patch Mar 15 04:13:06 danns, what are you trying to accomplish? Mar 15 04:13:27 egaudet: either terminus or webos qi Mar 15 04:13:35 egaudet: I wanted to create a patch so that the alarm clock does not vibrate Mar 15 04:13:43 if you want to submit a patch to be packaged for the webos-patches you can use the submission portal http://patches.webos-internals.org/ Mar 15 04:14:00 mjkjr_, OK what is the output of ls /media/internal/virtual-keyboard/ Mar 15 04:14:14 egaudet: yeah, I was in reading that portal, but I'm not sure what format to use and how to make the package Mar 15 04:15:02 All you need is a .patch file created by a unified diff tool Mar 15 04:15:39 the packaging makefiles are generated by the acceptance step after admin review of the patch adn the autobuilder packages it up and puts it into the webos-patches feed Mar 15 04:16:06 egaudet, nothing? via terminus, i'll try qi Mar 15 04:16:20 so I would only need to submit the .patch file, right? Mar 15 04:16:26 mjkjr_, if nothing then I want to see your webos-patches.log file Mar 15 04:16:51 danns, correct Mar 15 04:17:14 egaudet, ok i will email it to you in a couple minutes, should i try qi first? Mar 15 04:17:34 no Mar 15 04:17:44 it doesn't matter what you use for terminal access Mar 15 04:18:30 ok =) you'll have an email in a minute Mar 15 04:18:34 also QI doesn't support dependencies so people installing the VKB from QI when it is split into 2 packages will need to install both. Mar 15 04:18:47 I prefer just using Preware Mar 15 04:19:48 i prefer preware as well but i like qi as backup Mar 15 04:23:12 egaudet: sent, you'lll recognize my email Mar 15 04:24:54 oh I think I know what happened now Mar 15 04:25:37 mjkjr_, you should be able to remove and reinstall the VKB default themes package Mar 15 04:25:50 ok i will try that Mar 15 04:26:51 egaudet; i think that took over 10 minutes to install earlier :) Mar 15 04:27:04 yeah, sorry :P Mar 15 04:27:31 It's a necessary evil, there are a ton of image files that use the logic that needs to continuously grep the palm package database to check if the file is stock webos file Mar 15 04:28:31 Since they are all added files and go in /media/internal/ I'll probably end up just making the package outside of aupt so the themes install fast Mar 15 04:29:22 hmmm, i can't remove the VKB Default Themes Package bc of dependencies. I can only 'View It' or 'Cancel'. So should I remove VKB itself Mar 15 04:29:29 So, I can't release this VKB change like this. Mar 15 04:29:31 oil, rwhitby, ping Mar 15 04:29:39 aye Mar 15 04:29:44 mjkjr_, yeah Mar 15 04:30:19 oil, OK so the update logic in preware, the ordering and what not, creates a snag for me and I'm not sure the answer/solution Mar 15 04:31:04 The currently released VKB installs and removes the patch file as well as a lot of required theme images. Going forward I want to split it up so that the patch pacakge only has the patch and mvoe the theme images to another package Mar 15 04:31:28 the patch package will depend on the images package Mar 15 04:31:57 Preware sees the update, seees the dependency and orders it so that it does the following: Installs image package, updates patch package (which removes/installs) Mar 15 04:32:09 but the removal will remove the images that the image package is now handling Mar 15 04:32:59 Will it be "fixed" along with the other dependency ordering fix for patch updates? Mar 15 04:43:00 wait Mar 15 04:43:09 sorry, im only half paying attention to the chat Mar 15 04:43:37 if package a depends on package b, uninstalling package a doesn't remove package b Mar 15 04:43:41 is that what you were asking? Mar 15 04:43:55 A is installed and needs an update, and the NEW A depends on B. Currently preware will go: Install B, remove A, install A Mar 15 04:44:05 right Mar 15 04:44:16 To work it has to remove A, install B, install A Mar 15 04:44:46 which will be like rremove A, remove B, install B, install A of the "fix" for patch updates except B doesn't exist at first Mar 15 04:49:07 pain in the ass Mar 15 04:49:44 :P Mar 15 04:49:49 patches are so not evil Mar 15 04:51:13 finally done removing packages, now restarting luna to wait another 15 minutes while they install again =) Mar 15 04:53:51 dont restart luna Mar 15 04:54:25 what!!!? Mar 15 04:54:54 you dont need to restart luna until you want to pull things into memory to SEE the effects Mar 15 04:56:58 that's what i heard but i guess i do it for peace of mind Mar 15 04:57:18 here's your piece of mind: it helps nothing ;-) Mar 15 04:57:26 s/piece/peace Mar 15 04:57:28 s/piece/peace/ Mar 15 04:57:28 egaudet meant: s/peace/peace Mar 15 04:57:34 shutup infobot I hate you Mar 15 04:57:52 lol Mar 15 04:58:34 i guess i like to SEE the changes and make sure everything is ok, before i make more changes Mar 15 05:01:35 * mjkjr wishes he had something to pass the time while this installs, something like... Mar 15 05:01:43 ~holdmusic Mar 15 05:01:44 do do do doo.. doo doo do.. do do do doo.. doo doo do.. dum dum dum.. de doo do.. Mar 15 05:02:05 infobot: thank you Mar 15 05:02:06 mjkjr: gern geschehen Mar 15 05:03:46 egaudet: ok, have my vkb again =) Mar 15 05:04:02 cool Mar 15 05:04:30 good to know, now to get the themes out of the aupt slowness Mar 15 05:06:20 speaking of, earlier you mentioned people added themes and haptic feedback. i don't really care about adding themes, but haptic feedback interests me Mar 15 05:09:12 i know there is 'virtual-keyboard config' in QI, I see the options in there. is that the way or the only way? Mar 15 05:11:59 nvm i found the wiki : D Mar 15 05:20:44 hey guys Mar 15 05:22:09 goodnight all Mar 15 05:22:30 dst is killing me :( Mar 15 05:24:14 hmm, have a weird prob. MSG app isnt working, and email isnt loading Mar 15 05:28:13 I some opinions.. What CPU patch do y'all use? Mar 15 07:18:22 re Mar 15 12:41:40 I'm looking for jabber support for webos, I've found Greg Roll's git repos but don't have a cross environment. Are there prebuilt packages available? Mar 15 16:12:30 anyone know what the new pandora update does? Mar 15 16:12:55 drugs you and steals your kidney? Mar 15 16:13:00 no, wait,thats me Mar 15 16:13:07 chuqui: morning Mar 15 16:13:16 halfhalo_T400: ok charlie Mar 15 16:13:42 hehehe Mar 15 16:13:51 * halfhalo_T400 goes to watch charlie the unicorn Mar 15 16:16:49 its time to go learn about advanced data scructures! How fun! Mar 15 16:17:57 woo, random luna restarts ftw Mar 15 16:18:17 oh, I had one happen to me recently Mar 15 16:18:36 while I was trying to fully discharge my new battery Mar 15 16:19:06 it sorta kinda made the phone go from 53% to 0% in seconds Mar 15 16:45:50 morning, all. Mar 15 16:45:56 murnin Mar 15 16:47:47 morning Mar 15 16:54:53 I'm trying to install Messaging plugins. The installation of messagingsysfiles and messagingpatch went well but the plugins themselves won't install because of a missing dependency org.webosinternals.messaging. How to fix this? Mar 15 17:28:52 hey hey Mar 15 17:32:16 trololo Mar 15 17:33:59 hi Mar 15 17:34:12 hello Mar 15 17:34:16 ich have three idears for the palm! Mar 15 17:34:58 1. a patch for applauncher to view it in wide screen Mar 15 17:35:12 2. a microphone app! Mar 15 17:35:33 3. a app to share files from palm to palm Mar 15 17:35:48 what do you think about? Mar 15 17:36:33 1. I could see how that would be nice Mar 15 17:36:46 2. An app to do what exactly? Mar 15 17:37:07 3. Sorta like... email? or something using the Mojo messaging service? Mar 15 17:37:26 nono! Mar 15 17:37:50 ich toughtone app to record soinds, like a microphone! Mar 15 17:38:13 and a app to share files over bluetooth or wlan from palm to palm Mar 15 17:38:36 but i can't programm it :( because i habe no time. Mar 15 17:39:00 that aresuggestions for you, to inspirate you! Mar 15 17:39:45 Well, considering there is no access to the microphone yet, thats not going to happen soon, and as for number 2, can't do it natively over bluetooth yet, so the only way would be a middleman server or using xmpp Mar 15 17:40:43 hmpf! that isn't nice :( Mar 15 17:42:38 ahm, wouldn't it be possible to make a lan with palm to share files? like with a windows by games? one man is open a server and a other can join it! then you could share files Mar 15 17:43:19 as of right now? no Mar 15 17:43:37 there would need to be either a plugin built or a version of the sdk with it built in Mar 15 17:43:39 :( Mar 15 17:43:44 kk Mar 15 17:44:00 i understand Mar 15 17:49:20 Where can I get org.webosinternals.messaging ? Mar 15 17:50:03 they need to release the mic api alreadu Mar 15 17:50:14 yup Mar 15 17:50:45 there are two methods of recording on the pre Mar 15 17:50:53 but no official way Mar 15 17:51:12 although technically the video recorder records audio... Mar 15 17:51:20 official=good Mar 15 17:51:23 zsoc: yup yup Mar 15 17:51:29 not official=better Mar 15 17:51:38 not in #webos-internals :) Mar 15 17:51:53 lol zsoc he has it all twisted doesnt he Mar 15 17:51:55 did I stutter? Mar 15 17:52:06 morning ladies Mar 15 17:52:32 zsoc: umm so Mar 15 17:52:33 DID I STUDDA Mar 15 17:52:38 zsoc: are you saying a recording app is still needed Mar 15 17:52:40 just a tad Mar 15 17:52:42 that would be easy to bang out Mar 15 17:52:42 wat? Mar 15 17:53:01 PuffTheMagic: yeah, everyone is lazy. you could do the service in 5 seconds Mar 15 17:53:05 audio recorder app using gst Mar 15 17:53:10 the mojo I'm not familiar with tho Mar 15 17:53:15 pick your codec ;D Mar 15 17:53:32 * PuffTheMagic feels a lisp service coming Mar 15 17:54:03 i like mojo Mar 15 17:54:07 this is #webos-internals, we don't need official SDK API to do stuff Mar 15 17:54:10 its nice and shiny Mar 15 17:54:59 so mic is NOT out of the question and neither is most anything else you can think of ;-) It's just a matter of an internals developer wanting it enough to do it :P Mar 15 17:55:23 or anyone else who wants to develop it can use the WIDK for example Mar 15 17:56:01 PuffTheMagic: common-lisp= Mar 15 17:56:11 sepisultrum: yup Mar 15 17:56:23 nice Mar 15 17:56:27 PuffTheMagic: sbcl? Mar 15 17:56:32 PuffTheMagic: or ecl? Mar 15 17:56:37 or clisp? Mar 15 17:57:01 sepisultrum: sbcl cause i want to use buildapp to build single binaries Mar 15 17:57:32 http://xkcd.com/224/ Mar 15 17:57:57 PuffTheMagic: if sbcl only had a tree shaker Mar 15 17:57:57 sepisultrum: i have to whip up the cffi first Mar 15 17:58:07 but that will take 5 min Mar 15 17:58:57 PuffTheMagic: because an sbcl instance takes about 50MB, that's quite a lot for a phone Mar 15 17:59:02 PuffTheMagic: afaict, only palmaudioencoder uses the dsp properly (er.. at all) Mar 15 17:59:10 sepisultrum: really? Mar 15 17:59:18 sepisultrum: im sorta new to CL Mar 15 17:59:25 sepisultrum: i have to use Lispworks for school Mar 15 17:59:41 PuffTheMagic: well it includes the whole compiler and everything Mar 15 17:59:42 sepisultrum: idk what is best for embedded Mar 15 17:59:52 but you don't have that problem with ecl for example Mar 15 17:59:54 sepisultrum: im open to input Mar 15 18:00:18 I used to be involved a little in stumpwm Mar 15 18:00:23 a windowmanager in cl Mar 15 18:01:14 http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html there is no arm? Mar 15 18:01:21 shit Mar 15 18:01:37 zsoc: so I would have to make a binding for liblunaservice in CL, but in lisp its like orders of magnitude easier to make a binding Mar 15 18:01:58 PuffTheMagic: http://ecls.sourceforge.net/ Mar 15 18:02:32 sepisultrum: is ecls different that emacs cl? Mar 15 18:02:37 or are they the same Mar 15 18:02:42 isn't emacs already compiled for the pre ? Mar 15 18:02:54 emacs is c and elisp Mar 15 18:03:12 PuffTheMagic: yes, ecl is embeddable cl Mar 15 18:03:21 has nothing to do with elisp afaik Mar 15 18:03:31 I think it compile to c Mar 15 18:03:32 ok cool i will check out ecls Mar 15 18:03:35 I say do it in binary Mar 15 18:03:37 thanks for that tip Mar 15 18:03:39 as intermediate language Mar 15 18:04:42 nice it can build standalone bins :D Mar 15 18:05:07 well, traditional cl environments normally suport dumping images Mar 15 18:05:12 sepisultrum: what did you use for graphics in that wm? Mar 15 18:05:20 PuffTheMagic: clx Mar 15 18:05:34 PuffTheMagic: it's a X11 protocol implementation in cl Mar 15 18:05:40 yeah i've seen it Mar 15 18:05:55 http://www.nongnu.org/stumpwm/ Mar 15 18:05:59 So I wonder if/when luna will support a blitting interface (maybe even through SDL) Mar 15 18:06:10 :D Mar 15 18:06:10 sepisultrum CL on the pre is gonna be sweet Mar 15 18:06:25 PuffTheMagic: would be nice :) Mar 15 18:06:44 PuffTheMagic: If you want to create a project for this, I'm in Mar 15 18:06:59 how long does the lisp infatuation last? Mar 15 18:07:04 for ecl in general or the audio recorder Mar 15 18:07:20 egaudet_wirc: i am going to be writing lisp the rest of my life Mar 15 18:07:25 lisp on the pre in general :) Mar 15 18:07:27 cause of ACT-R Mar 15 18:07:38 PuffTheMagic: haha, you do ACT-R Mar 15 18:07:41 http://xkcd.com/297/ Mar 15 18:07:43 :D Mar 15 18:07:53 sepisultrum: starting to Mar 15 18:07:55 PuffTheMagic: I've worked a little with ACT-R for python Mar 15 18:08:11 Pretty cool theroy Mar 15 18:08:13 theory Mar 15 18:08:13 sepisultrum: just started a cognitive science phd prog Mar 15 18:08:42 and the lab im am part of does lots of modeling Mar 15 18:09:02 PuffTheMagic: I'm doing EE, but worked a little in a project with cogsci people Mar 15 18:09:28 what affiliation was that? Mar 15 18:09:43 institution Mar 15 18:09:43 w/e Mar 15 18:09:49 PuffTheMagic: http://www.cotesys.org/ Mar 15 18:10:06 PuffTheMagic: but I didn't really finish anything ;) Mar 15 18:10:28 PuffTheMagic: don't know if they continue this ACT-R stuff Mar 15 18:11:00 well it looks like they robots so.... Mar 15 18:11:06 i doubt they use ACT-R Mar 15 18:11:17 cause people that do robots dont care if things are plausible Mar 15 18:11:19 I haven't paid much attention here lately Mar 15 18:11:20 hm Mar 15 18:12:16 PuffTheMagic: well, it's a big government founded project with many sub-projects. The project I worked for was involved in modeling assemby workers Mar 15 18:12:50 but as said, I wasn't there long, and the part I was involved was more of a failure ;) Mar 15 18:16:03 sepisultrum: ecl_0.9i-2 is in optware Mar 15 18:16:40 which means it can be in preware as soon as rwhitby wakes up Mar 15 18:18:32 but the versioning seems to be different that ecls Mar 15 18:19:42 PuffTheMagic: yeah Mar 15 18:19:48 PuffTheMagic: don't get thet Mar 15 18:19:50 that Mar 15 18:19:56 what is the difference? Mar 15 18:20:48 PuffTheMagic: they might have changed the name and versioning scheme. or it might be a different project Mar 15 18:21:02 fork probably Mar 15 18:21:17 ecls is in portage i will just build it my self Mar 15 18:21:58 PuffTheMagic: just reading the docs Mar 15 18:30:43 PuffTheMagic: according to the manual I just checked out, arm is not supported :( Mar 15 18:31:24 i know i googled and saw an article about CL on iphone Mar 15 18:31:46 yeah he used ecl Mar 15 18:32:20 http://lambdajive.wordpress.com/2009/03/27/common-lisp-on-iphone-ecl-comes-through-at-last/ Mar 15 18:33:43 hmm, the docs might be old Mar 15 18:34:50 so what's so special about qt Mar 15 18:34:59 i tried to find any app i'd ever think of using Mar 15 18:35:02 and they all look horrible Mar 15 18:36:07 qt4 is nice Mar 15 18:36:11 qt3 sucked Mar 15 18:36:17 what's on the pre Mar 15 18:36:24 nothing Mar 15 18:36:28 qt aint on pre Mar 15 18:36:31 sampson: I like it Mar 15 18:36:32 qt was ported to webos Mar 15 18:36:39 it looks desktopish, comfortable Mar 15 18:36:40 well its not on the pre Mar 15 18:36:46 might be in preware though Mar 15 18:37:03 http://www.upvery.com/9627-qt-ported-to-palm-pre-and-a-new-development-kit.html Mar 15 18:37:06 it is Mar 15 18:37:12 zsoc: yeah but i mean i looked at apps that use qt Mar 15 18:37:25 and all of them are like applets to handle network config in linux or something as equally useless Mar 15 18:37:35 sampson: have a look at kde4 Mar 15 18:37:39 * zsoc shrugs Mar 15 18:37:39 and it's apps Mar 15 18:37:55 that article sounds like a 4y/o wrote it Mar 15 18:38:00 I don't know the whole story. Mr. black would beg to differ I bet Mar 15 18:38:23 sampson: qt4 is great, the look is very customizable. Also have a look at maemo/meego, they now use kt4 as standard toolkkit Mar 15 18:38:40 i used to be a gnome/gtk fanboy Mar 15 18:38:44 for bout 8 years Mar 15 18:38:51 but i switched to kde4/qt4 Mar 15 18:38:53 recently Mar 15 18:38:56 havent looked back Mar 15 18:39:00 PuffTheMagic: me too, until I tried programing for gtk ;) Mar 15 18:39:09 don't use kde4 though Mar 15 18:39:16 enlightenment17 :) Mar 15 18:39:17 i've programmed gtk before its pretty nice actually Mar 15 18:39:24 and i;'ve done e17 Mar 15 18:39:28 which i hope to do more of Mar 15 18:39:33 im afraid of qt Mar 15 18:39:34 c++ Mar 15 18:39:35 eww Mar 15 18:39:59 yeah, don't like c++ either, but you don't need to use the bad parts of c++ if you don't want to Mar 15 18:41:43 its just 1 more lang i dont have time to learn Mar 15 18:41:48 overloaded operators are the awesome Mar 15 18:41:49 and qt is like its own lang Mar 15 18:45:52 PuffTheMagic: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1435432529445611697# this is why you want to use qt4 :) NOT Mar 15 18:47:24 wow Mar 15 18:47:45 people be posting some awsome vids lately Mar 15 18:47:49 it gets worse ;) Mar 15 18:48:12 lalalla alalala lolololoooooooo troooloo Mar 15 18:48:17 zsoc: :D Mar 15 18:49:37 sepisultrum: according to someone in #lisp ecl should work Mar 15 18:50:12 i put ubuntu on my x200 Mar 15 18:50:19 thats a horrible idea Mar 15 18:50:20 as per usual the fan never slows down and it sounds like my laptop is going to take off Mar 15 18:50:29 so i deleted it Mar 15 18:51:13 lisp and ecl what would that be used for Mar 15 18:51:15 enlighten me Mar 15 18:53:29 starting the signs of cloud enabled cognitive computing via smartphones Mar 15 18:53:42 and reducing the number of free parenthesis in the universe Mar 15 18:54:05 lol gtocha Mar 15 18:54:06 atlanta: rebuild webos ;) then save the world Mar 15 18:54:19 sounds like a plan Mar 15 18:54:38 im rebuilding mine to take over bank accounts and the world at the same time Mar 15 18:55:51 using c# and mono Mar 15 18:55:55 lol Mar 15 18:59:00 * PuffTheMagic kicks atlanta for saying c# Mar 15 19:01:25 coctalthorpe? Mar 15 19:03:41 atlanta: I wouldn't say that in a logged channel Mar 15 19:04:09 zsoc: it will be all good Mar 15 19:04:25 freedom of speech is lovely Mar 15 19:04:35 PuffTheMagic: lol Mar 15 19:05:10 is it me, or are there no webos apps for banking (checking/moving money) OR stock trading? Mar 15 19:05:25 atlanta: free speech? there is no free speech anywhere on this planet Mar 15 19:05:47 zsoc: its not you Mar 15 19:05:51 but there is a intuit app Mar 15 19:05:58 to charge people for work Mar 15 19:06:06 PuffTheMagic: c# is better than java. Mar 15 19:06:48 gkatsev: what terrible parallel universe are you speaking of? Mar 15 19:07:28 loot_: c# is better than java. it is pretty much the same in pretty much all aspects, except the ones where c# is better at Mar 15 19:07:49 thats entirely opinion sir Mar 15 19:08:28 the small amount of experience i had with C# i learned that they did make some things incredibly easy but at the same time they managed to make already simple things exceedingly complicated Mar 15 19:08:29 ok, at the very least it is as bad as java. Mar 15 19:08:32 c# and java are equally horrid. Mar 15 19:08:56 but from what ive seen of c# and the features they added like lambdas and stuff make it better than java Mar 15 19:09:07 but heavily abstracted languages are generally pretty bad. Mar 15 19:09:39 .net makes jack a dull boy Mar 15 19:10:42 lol Mar 15 19:10:48 i started a war Mar 15 19:13:16 somebody told me that would happen Mar 15 19:15:22 atlanta: look what youve done Mar 15 19:15:28 *at Mar 15 19:15:31 :-) Mar 15 19:15:46 i thought it would be funny since they were talking about lisp and ecl Mar 15 19:16:23 scheme is pretty sweet though Mar 15 19:16:46 javascript is almost like scheme just with java syntax and a stupid name Mar 15 19:25:26 sepisultrum: so yeah looks like we should be able to get ecl to work with some lovin Mar 15 19:25:34 sepisultrum: and im down for this project too :D Mar 15 19:27:47 PuffTheMagic: ok, I wonder if the changes on the iphone port are back in the main repo allready Mar 15 19:27:58 probably Mar 15 19:28:03 i was trying 9.12 Mar 15 19:28:10 but i think i will go to 10.x Mar 15 19:30:01 can't git clone http://floatopian.com/~reddaly/ecl/ecl/.git/ anyway Mar 15 19:40:22 so what does this project do Mar 15 19:54:04 wats the current state of duke3d? sound work? controls ok? Mar 15 20:08:51 does the duke3d wiki page tell which files are needed and where to put them yet? Mar 15 20:09:49 anyone know how to adjust the bitpool for bluetooth on the pre? I am getting horrible crackling sounds with some songs using rocketfish bluetooth headset. Mar 15 20:16:06 abiword on pre :D hahaha Mar 15 20:16:27 (just had to share :[ ) Mar 15 20:16:44 someone port vlc. its qt and sdl Mar 15 20:17:25 DO IT Mar 15 20:17:26 NOW Mar 15 20:17:28 haha Mar 15 20:17:54 jacques: have a look Mar 15 20:18:09 sepisultrum: have a look at what? Mar 15 20:18:19 jacques: at the wiki page Mar 15 20:20:38 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Duke3D currently has no info on which data files are needed nor where they need to go. it says look at the ReadMe.txt which is installed by the package, but why not also include that info on the wiki page? Mar 15 20:21:01 jacques: it's a wiki Mar 15 20:21:32 jacques: you could just add it or recommend it in the discussion section Mar 15 20:22:23 jacques: on the other hand, it might be better to keep it out because of consistency Mar 15 20:22:58 it would be nice to know which files are required without having to install the package first Mar 15 21:51:17 Palm Pre FREE @ Radioshack Mar 15 21:53:01 * jhojho watches the kerfuffle from the precentral article about overclocking Mar 15 21:54:46 Is anyone familiar with boilers (gas heating)? I'm trying to troubleshoot a hydrotherm ew2-801 Mar 15 21:55:04 zsoc: maybe it needs to run webos Mar 15 21:55:27 that article really is quite badly written Mar 15 21:55:39 jhojho: that's reasonable advice. Mar 15 21:56:17 heh. never had to work on one so cant help you there. Mar 15 21:56:38 maybe you can try #boilers-internals =) Mar 15 21:57:11 zsoc: just put it in debug mode to get more verbose output Mar 15 21:57:19 that is how I usually start troubleshooting things Mar 15 21:57:55 maybe run it with "hydrotherm -v"? Mar 15 21:57:57 cryptk|work: well I bypassed the thermostat controls and forced water into it... which it seems to heat just fine. Mar 15 21:58:11 could be a bad solonoid then Mar 15 21:58:21 if it uses solonoids to regulate the flow of water Mar 15 21:58:43 Yeah, I may have accidentally let the pressure over 15psi tho... I might end up with a wet boiler room Mar 15 21:58:44 or did you not bypass the solonoid and just use a jumper wire in place of the thermostat? Mar 15 21:58:55 er, no, there's actually a lever. Mar 15 21:58:58 ahh Mar 15 21:59:03 it's on the solonoid i think. Mar 15 21:59:11 ok, so you just manually flipped the lever and bypassed the whole thing Mar 15 21:59:15 basically. Mar 15 21:59:29 it is probably either built into the solonoid or located very close to it Mar 15 21:59:38 Why isn't everything in a house controlled by something linux/C based that's opensource? Mar 15 22:00:01 I would try manually toggling the solonoid with a jumper wire, but be very careful, some of them run at high voltages and even just 110v is enough to kill you Mar 15 22:00:14 (READ: call a professional if in any doubt) Mar 15 22:00:41 Electric I am fully certified in Mar 15 22:00:45 but it is the end of my time at work and I have to go home before they give me more work Mar 15 22:00:51 That's the only reason I'd even consider taking to a project like this Mar 15 22:00:53 kk, peace Mar 15 22:00:55 try manually tripping the solonoid then Mar 15 22:00:58 will do Mar 15 22:01:03 if that works I would look at the thermostat Mar 15 22:03:54 btw does anyone know if unixpsycho has released the source to his patch yet? Mar 15 22:09:59 jhojho: er.. the patch is pretty straight forward... if i'm not mistaken, the alpha/beta testers have it Mar 15 22:10:57 I'm on the test list and have not seen it which is why I was asking if i missed it somehow Mar 15 22:11:14 so my boss is letting me pick between 1 expensive mac monitor or 2 dells :D Mar 15 22:11:22 i dont think this is evena question Mar 15 22:11:29 2 24" dells would be hot Mar 15 22:11:54 PuffTheMagic: you have a job? Mar 15 22:12:05 and what resolution are the dells? Mar 15 22:12:10 well sorta Mar 15 22:12:13 i get a stipend Mar 15 22:12:15 Generally dell monitors are made by AOC, so they are pretty much awesome. Mar 15 22:12:16 to do research Mar 15 22:12:25 and my school is paid for Mar 15 22:12:38 zsoc: its was 1080p res Mar 15 22:12:57 zsoc: it could be any monitor really Mar 15 22:13:04 since the Apple monitor is like 800 Mar 15 22:13:10 the AOC 1920x1080 are hot, i would say that's not even a question Mar 15 22:13:32 PuffTheMagic: BUT IT WONT HAVE A DISPLAY_PORT! OH NOES!111111o1eneon1 Mar 15 22:13:47 get the 2 dells Mar 15 22:14:12 maybe spend a little more to get IPS panels if you can find a deal somewhere Mar 15 22:14:17 zsoc: should i get AOC over DELL? Mar 15 22:14:37 what are you using to power the displays? Mar 15 22:14:58 Like I said, I would be very surprised if they weren't already AOCs, since the are the largest LCD manufacturer in the world. That being said, I'm sure Dell offers a better warranty Mar 15 22:15:15 i wouldnt be running dual display Mar 15 22:15:21 if i get 2 i would get to take one home Mar 15 22:15:24 and have one for my office Mar 15 22:16:28 haha nice Mar 15 22:16:34 PuffTheMagic: do you have the model of the dell you're looking at? Mar 15 22:17:04 usually starts with an E Mar 15 22:17:06 zsoc: no im not looking at anything particular yet Mar 15 22:17:20 i just got out of a meeting with my boos Mar 15 22:17:21 boss Mar 15 22:17:23 ah Mar 15 22:17:27 and we googled for like 2 min Mar 15 22:17:34 when we saw how mucht eh 24" apple lcd was Mar 15 22:17:52 then we looked up dell and ai shiad shit i could get 2 Mar 15 22:17:57 and he said sure :D Mar 15 22:19:22 PuffTheMagic: for $800 you could get 4 of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824160049 Mar 15 22:19:41 he doesnt really want to spend $800 :D Mar 15 22:20:19 ah i see lol Mar 15 22:20:21 do they have bigger than 24" Mar 15 22:20:24 of course Mar 15 22:20:38 cause i think 2 is the max Mar 15 22:20:39 The differences between televisions and computer monitors these days are... well.. not much. Mar 15 22:20:40 i could get Mar 15 22:20:51 so myabe i could push put he size a little on the cheaper ones Mar 15 22:21:22 :D Mar 15 22:21:22 newegg dont list anything bigger than 24 Mar 15 22:21:23 for AOC Mar 15 22:22:02 oooh Mar 15 22:22:03 v27t Mar 15 22:22:04 :D Mar 15 22:22:11 LED lcd Mar 15 22:22:30 Heh, not sure if they do 1080p on stuff bigger than a 23", past that they are "TVs" with tuners and what not (of course they also have hdmi and vga) Mar 15 22:22:39 ahh thats a tv Mar 15 22:23:02 Like I said tho, that's a paper thin argument ;) Mar 15 22:23:09 But yeah, I think the biggest "monitor" is a http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824160042 Mar 15 22:23:12 the difference between computers and TVs is resolution Mar 15 22:23:19 which Is actually _cheaper_ somehow at 23" Mar 15 22:23:23 marajin: they are both 1920x1080 Mar 15 22:23:36 if you got a 24" PC screen you can have 1920x1200, 24 -> 90 on a TV is still only 1920x1080 Mar 15 22:24:05 I actually have a 22" 1920x1080 monitor as I like pixel density Mar 15 22:24:29 marajin: That's true, but 1920x1080 is rather a standard these days. I'm not sure what the native resolution is for optimal computer viewing (ie 3 feet) but I think it's something like 24" Mar 15 22:24:29 zsoc: yeah i think that 24" AOC will work :D Mar 15 22:24:54 24" is right yeah, I've done bunches of experiments with 20, 22, 24, 26 Mar 15 22:25:03 24" with about 1080 or 1920x1200 is puuurrfect Mar 15 22:25:22 does the AOC have a camera built in? Mar 15 22:25:37 PuffTheMagic: get a dell 24" multitouch screen? :D Mar 15 22:25:57 ohh Mar 15 22:26:09 yes they make them, and they work rather well Mar 15 22:27:06 ah sorry, they're 22 but hey :) multitouch! Mar 15 22:27:19 acer do a 23 Mar 15 22:27:44 which I can buy fooor.. **mental math** 450 bucks or less Mar 15 22:28:23 and that's 1080p Mar 15 22:29:47 I sense a disturbance in the google-fu.. :p Mar 15 22:31:53 haha Mar 15 22:32:12 Ah, normally open honeywell zone controls, how I hate you. Mar 15 22:32:18 JayCanuck: mornin' Mar 15 22:32:22 morning Mar 15 22:32:58 zsoc: he's suddenly very quiet :p Mar 15 22:33:11 Anyone familiar with nautilus' dropbox extension? Mar 15 22:33:33 wish I were Mar 15 22:35:24 Well I'm goin' to bed Mar 15 22:35:31 g'luck with your screen hunt PuffTheMagic Mar 15 22:35:43 thanks Mar 15 22:35:43 night Mar 15 22:36:32 night zsoc Mar 15 22:36:36 later Mar 15 23:04:40 Now that wifi enabled printers are rather ubiquitous... how far into cups has anyone looked? Mar 15 23:07:19 hello anyone know where current info on rooting under linux can be found ? Mar 15 23:07:39 everything i read seems outdated Mar 15 23:08:41 if you have libusb, you should be able to use the novacom replacement Mar 15 23:08:53 what is the replacement ? Mar 15 23:08:53 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=tools/precom-progs.git;a=summary Mar 15 23:08:57 ty Mar 15 23:15:08 figure it out gpgp ? Mar 15 23:15:20 not quite Mar 15 23:15:24 whoops Mar 15 23:15:25 :( Mar 15 23:15:37 i see the link but i dont know how to use it yet Mar 15 23:16:01 so it is an open source version of novacom, i see that Mar 15 23:16:19 use git to pull the repo down .. Mar 15 23:16:49 then compile the source into an executable .. there is a makefile there Mar 15 23:16:56 ok Mar 15 23:17:17 thank Mar 15 23:17:18 s Mar 15 23:19:17 * mjkjr wonders if anyone here has tried the zagg invisible shield, trying to feel better about the $40 just spent Mar 15 23:19:37 i must say i havent seen any instructions even near that method, glad i came to the source Mar 15 23:19:46 invisible shields are nice mjkjr just not work that much IMO Mar 15 23:20:05 prolly didnt help justifying did i? Mar 15 23:22:27 angel12: lol, no not really. I was actually going to get a regular screen protector and gave in to the full body shield Mar 15 23:22:45 it'll keep it lookin nice at least ;) Mar 15 23:23:40 I'm ok with zagg stuff Mar 15 23:24:17 yeah, i'm very picky so a scratch would drive me crazy Mar 15 23:26:05 i was going to install it myself but this full body one looked like a pain. i paid the extra $12 so if it went wrong it would be bestbuys fault =) Mar 15 23:26:58 lol Mar 15 23:27:06 not a bad idea Mar 15 23:27:19 Hey, does anyone here know where I can learn more about what would be involved to get the pre to work with and ipod-capable car stereo system? Mar 15 23:27:36 sb107: a 3.5mm stereo patch cable? Mar 15 23:27:41 lol Mar 15 23:27:49 well yeah but I have a nice stereo system Mar 15 23:27:53 sb107: pretty involved if you mean by using the 30 pin connecter Mar 15 23:27:54 and the patch cable makes it sound like crap Mar 15 23:27:57 no bass, etc Mar 15 23:28:09 yeah Mar 15 23:28:12 sb107: get a new patch cable Mar 15 23:28:22 or just buy a bluetooth capable stereo Mar 15 23:28:26 haha I am under the impression it will never work though Mar 15 23:28:45 well won't everything over the 3.5mm jack be 2 channel? Mar 15 23:29:01 Patch cable makes it sound bad? That doesn't sound right. Mar 15 23:29:06 whereas if I put the device in USB mode (my stereo can play files from a usb frive) it sounds much better Mar 15 23:29:12 could be a crappy cable Mar 15 23:29:37 Could be. Also, I'm not sure of the output of the jack, but I wouldn't have the volume all the way up on the Pre, maybe one click down or two. Mar 15 23:29:38 i would get a new one Mar 15 23:29:40 sb107: i disagree, i have a very nice system in my car and sounds fine. if you have aux inputs on your cd player you connect the cable to those and then in the 3.5 jack on the pre. sounds like cd quality Mar 15 23:29:46 I've gotten pretty good sound out of my headphone jack tho Mar 15 23:31:35 ok i am a dummy, dont know how to use git Mar 15 23:32:00 hmm ok, ill try that then Mar 15 23:32:03 thanks Mar 15 23:32:09 gpgp: which host OS platform? Mar 15 23:32:22 linux ubuntu karmic Mar 15 23:32:25 so who's patch is the change_user_agent in testing? The maintainer is webos-internals? Mar 15 23:32:46 mjkjr: obviously someone who doesn't want to be named ;) Mar 15 23:32:57 gpgp: what are you trying to do exactly? Mar 15 23:33:11 install the replacement for novacom Mar 15 23:33:19 or root a pre from linux Mar 15 23:33:54 gpgp: why? cant you just put it in dev mode? (webos newb) Mar 15 23:34:18 gpgp: git clone git://git.webos-internals.org/tools/precom-progs.git Mar 15 23:34:30 ah clone thanks Mar 15 23:34:46 augh 'root' Mar 15 23:34:57 i am not sure why exatly all the info i read seems out of date Mar 15 23:35:25 chrisa: He meant to say "gain a root shell". I just sed that phrase in my head every time I see someone say "root", it helps me through the day Mar 15 23:35:41 the phone is in dev mode i want to ssh from linux but already have virtual box OSE in use on this machine Mar 15 23:35:57 lol Mar 15 23:36:00 gpgp: build what you just downloaded with git, run novacom -t open tty:// Mar 15 23:36:06 i know it is wrong and annoying but is the phrase most are using Mar 15 23:36:29 gpgp: where are you reading your info from? Mar 15 23:36:35 gpgp: exactly which instructions are you following? Mar 15 23:36:36 precentral Mar 15 23:36:42 There's your first problem Mar 15 23:36:57 Just google 'preware install' and you'll get the wiki entry Mar 15 23:37:02 thats why i am here--want curretn info Mar 15 23:37:04 and it'll handle all of that Mar 15 23:37:07 gpgp: http://install.preware.org/ Mar 15 23:37:20 or rwhitby can swoop in Mar 15 23:37:22 That works too Mar 15 23:37:29 It seems he wants a root shell. Mar 15 23:37:30 the install the OpenSSH SFTP Server package in Preware Mar 15 23:37:37 then set up ssh keys Mar 15 23:37:38 'root' doesn't bother me now, probably because someone at work asked me if my phone was 'jailbroke' Mar 15 23:37:40 I understand the idea of OpenSSH, but some of us like novacom :D Mar 15 23:37:56 but novacom is 3423512 times easier to use than setting up ssh keys to someone unfamiliar with the idea. Mar 15 23:37:58 for novacom, just install the Palm SDK or PDK and type 'novacom' Mar 15 23:38:25 I'm full of disagreement today... cloning/building precomd is very simple, and much smaller than the SDK Mar 15 23:38:30 i will try that metod on this machine but u=it failed on my widows macheine yesterday Mar 15 23:38:42 Is precomd a re-eng novacomd? Mar 15 23:38:49 *rev-eng Mar 15 23:38:52 chrisa: yes, oss novacom Mar 15 23:39:30 rwhitby: I assume the new 1.4 SDK/PDK's have the upstart issue fixed with novacomd? Mar 15 23:39:39 ie: people were having to manually start novacomd Mar 15 23:39:46 zsoc: dunno Mar 15 23:39:48 in ub9.10 Mar 15 23:40:18 zsoc: 'building' is simpler than 'installing' ? Mar 15 23:40:30 no Mar 15 23:41:23 The SDK is quite large Mar 15 23:41:47 I'm glad I've never dealt with any of this Mar 15 23:42:44 rwhitby: building a small program is simpler than installer Preware (especially since our current suggested method is wosqi), installing openssh server, and finding a tutorial that properly explains how keys works and where they go Mar 15 23:43:30 rwhitby: now when we have a windows based .exe installer, and an openssh package that automagically generates keys from some mojo front end, and gives you instructions on moving it to your host computer for each OS, then I would suggest that Mar 15 23:43:38 zsoc: but not simpler than installing the SDK or PDK according to Palm's documented procedure, using Palm's official support channels for assistance, and using Palm's official documentation to find out the 'novaterm' command Mar 15 23:44:19 bah humbug Mar 15 23:45:47 Heh Mar 15 23:46:46 there are one or to novaterm binaries out there, no? Mar 15 23:46:49 one or two&* Mar 15 23:46:51 rwhitby: It's difficult to listen to you pushing a 'lesson the support on our shoulders' argument when Preware's error messages and message handling is so poor. Mar 15 23:47:01 s/lesson/lessen/ Mar 15 23:47:01 zsoc meant: rwhitby: It's difficult to listen to you pushing a 'lessen the support on our shoulders' argument when Preware's error messages and message handling is so poor. Mar 15 23:47:17 zsoc: whenever preware doesn't work for me I pm rwhitby Mar 15 23:47:21 Who needs error messages? Mar 15 23:47:38 zsoc: patches welcome ... Mar 15 23:53:02 anybody have any experience getting yahoo chat working with the messaging plugin ? Mar 15 23:53:25 it doesn't like to login even though I know it's the right password Mar 15 23:57:51 i forgot i tried this on my wifes ubuntu machine yesterday, found my problem. thanks folks Mar 16 00:00:11 * mjkjr is STILL waiting for his copy of ubuntu to come in the mail Mar 16 00:00:55 why in the mail ? Mar 16 00:03:16 because i tried to download before but the download failed 75% of the way through, and i'm only on mobile broadband so i wasn't going to try again, lol Mar 16 00:08:03 are you on a boat or something ? Mar 16 00:08:14 I GOT MY FLIPPY FLOPPIES Mar 16 00:08:25 im on a boat! Mar 16 00:08:39 mjkjr: use torrent for ubuntu Mar 16 00:08:54 thats sweet angel12 Mar 16 00:09:00 lmao, i wish. I lived in a town house so i didn't want to get cable, but i moved into a 'real house' this year so i'm getting cable soon Mar 16 00:10:36 zsoc: i don't know torrent, and won't it still be about a 800mb download? Mar 16 00:11:27 mjkjr: windows, download utorrent (it's tiny), basically from ubuntu's site you grab the .torrent file which opens with utorrent, and the tracker you are connected to grabs 'peers'. So no matter where you get cut off, you can continue later Mar 16 00:11:32 heck, you can download it 1mb at a time Mar 16 00:11:42 mjkjr: plus it puts 0 stress on ubuntu servers, it's all contributors Mar 16 00:12:57 hmm.. googling utorrent Mar 16 00:14:20 so, I think I am gonna doc back to 1.3.5.1 to try out the new OC kernel Mar 16 00:14:21 'it is tiny, too bad ubuntu isn't Mar 16 00:14:28 woohoo! just scored two australian palm power supply adapter plugs in the mail :-) Mar 16 00:14:50 rwhitby: the ones that plug into the wall and have a USB port? Mar 16 00:14:56 cryptk: considered it, but i'll wait for 1.4 version Mar 16 00:15:21 cryptk: just the adapter bit at the end, not the main barrel unit with the electronics in it. Mar 16 00:15:21 I have everything all backed up so I can easily doc back to 1.4 and restore it like it is now Mar 16 00:15:23 i would like to hear some input on the oc kernal Mar 16 00:15:39 mjkjr: give me a bit and I will let you know what I think Mar 16 00:15:55 I am going to be very safe with the downgrade... EPR, full erase then doc back Mar 16 00:16:08 never done a downgrade so I want to make sure it is as clean as possible Mar 16 00:16:10 s/some/some professional/ Mar 16 00:16:10 mjkjr meant: i would like to hear some professional input on the oc kernal Mar 16 00:16:22 esp since the 1.3.5.1 doc doesn't wipe the /media/internal/ Mar 16 00:16:24 cryptk: are you a professional? lol Mar 16 00:16:58 mjkjr: considering that my home computer is water cooled and severely overclocked running linux and I am a linux systems administrator... I would say i am as close to professional as youa re going to get Mar 16 00:17:33 cryptk: well i look forward to your input then =D Mar 16 00:17:35 so maybe not "professional" in your eyes, but close enough, lol Mar 16 00:18:32 weird, luna freezes a lot in 1.4 Mar 16 00:18:58 one of my first computers i built in school is 'slightly' overclocked, i always wanted to try out water cooling, but i just can't have water that close to my electronics Mar 16 00:19:53 so I just figured out why my mouse was working like sh*t Mar 16 00:20:02 my airaive was too close to the reciever, lol Mar 16 00:20:11 angel12: indeed it does Mar 16 00:21:11 I had my phone reboot 5 times today at work... and during random things... once while surfing the web, once while browsing through preware, once while listening to pandora and two other times while it was just sitting on the touchstone (that I noticed) Mar 16 00:21:24 may have happened more while just sitting on the touchstone but I only noticed two Mar 16 00:21:33 part of the reason I am doctoring back Mar 16 00:21:41 cryptk: you mean you had Luna reboot Mar 16 00:21:47 yeah, ive been charging it all day (its been sitting in my closet for a month) and updated to 1.4 and wow Mar 16 00:22:01 my phone HAS to be up because if a server at work has problems I get an automated text message about it to go fix it Mar 16 00:22:05 zsoc: yes Mar 16 00:22:08 yeah mine reboots Mar 16 00:22:16 not a bad idea to doctor bac Mar 16 00:22:18 back' Mar 16 00:22:19 but in my experience it will freeze up for a minute or two, then reboot Mar 16 00:22:28 but it has good days too, its VERY RANDOM Mar 16 00:22:31 yeah thats exactly what mine does Mar 16 00:22:41 mjkjr: indeed, some days it is flawless, others it is horrid Mar 16 00:22:59 I think it has something to do with the same bug that causes the lock screen glitch (just a hunch) Mar 16 00:23:14 I could be wrong on that guess Mar 16 00:23:50 actually, all i know is it happens when the lock screen comes up Mar 16 00:23:57 so i guess that could be it Mar 16 00:24:07 so i have thought about downloading all of the docs that we have on the wiki and generating an MD5sum of each one and adding it into the wiki Mar 16 00:24:18 but I don't know if people actually check their downloads like I do... Mar 16 00:25:17 ok installed wosqi, it says no device found when i attempt > tools > linux command line. lsusb says it is connected, and the phone is in dev mode Mar 16 00:25:19 I have to at work since the servers need to be up as much as possible... all software that gets installed gets md5summed and checked before install... Mar 16 00:25:36 is wosqi set to USB device or emulator? Mar 16 00:25:41 usb Mar 16 00:26:05 hrm... Mar 16 00:26:12 have you tried rebooting the Pre? Mar 16 00:26:13 after all this trouble i woulda installed the sdk already haha Mar 16 00:26:19 i cant Mar 16 00:26:23 is dev mode enabled on the pre? Mar 16 00:26:27 you can't reboot the pre? Mar 16 00:26:29 i am running vb ose already Mar 16 00:26:38 cant install sdk Mar 16 00:26:43 in virtual machine Mar 16 00:26:59 gpgp: ahh, so have you tried restarting the phone? Mar 16 00:26:59 yes dev enabled Mar 16 00:27:14 i thought i had but .. Mar 16 00:27:20 zsoc: "utorrent.exe is not a valid Win32 application" or that's what it tells me Mar 16 00:28:14 mjkjr: http://www.utorrent.com/downloads ? Mar 16 00:28:35 my plan is to doc back, use the OC kernel and wait to move back to 1.4 after a bugfix update comes out Mar 16 00:28:53 I don't use the video camera that much to justify the glitches Mar 16 00:29:05 am i wrong about the virtual box and sdk ? it needs usb right so no ose for virtual box ? Mar 16 00:29:38 the SDK doesn't need USB functionality in the emulator Mar 16 00:29:55 zsoc: http://www.utorrent.com/ Mar 16 00:29:56 but if you follow the instructions on palms site you can get it all up and running Mar 16 00:30:09 just save your virtual disks and add them abck into VB after you set up the SDK Mar 16 00:30:34 but i would try rebooting the phone/computer first Mar 16 00:30:43 i thought about that but i have to use the virtual machines right now Mar 16 00:30:44 mjkjr: works over here in wine and my winxp virtualbox? Mar 16 00:31:15 zsoc: vista...? Mar 16 00:32:28 brb Mar 16 00:33:05 mjkjr: there isn't a vista box within a mile of my location, but i'm certain it runs on vista Mar 16 00:33:10 try an alternate download site? cnet? Mar 16 00:33:39 zsoc: i clicked download again, overwrote the previous download and it appears to work, weird Mar 16 00:35:25 mjkjr: windows needs some sort of checksum built into downloads :p Mar 16 00:36:46 lol Mar 16 00:38:42 * mjkjr thinks it's funny utorrent assumes i want my home page set to ask.com and that i'd like to add a new toolbar, good thing i read Mar 16 00:39:29 It's windows, you should know to uncheck every box in existence while using installers Mar 16 00:39:36 mjkjr: they get lots of money for assuming that Mar 16 00:40:12 ha ha, true Mar 16 00:40:20 woot, new firmware on the router Mar 16 00:40:28 and 1.3.5.1 going onto the pre Mar 16 00:40:39 will preware start assuming i want wacky stuff on my phone one day? Mar 16 00:40:57 I really shoulda meta-doc'd it to bypass activation so I can have it download all my crap over wifi... Mar 16 00:41:14 mjkjr: if someone offered me 100 mil, sure. Mar 16 00:41:47 rwhitby: really that kind of money involved for that type of 'advertisement'? Mar 16 00:41:48 mjkjr: luckily, with Preware being open source, you'd be able to take it out and distribute a different version without it, and I'd still have my 100 mil. Mar 16 00:41:56 I'd do it for 10 mil Mar 16 00:42:29 mjkjr: they make money per install generally Mar 16 00:42:37 I'd do it for 1 mil Mar 16 00:43:08 rwhitby: if Palm wanted you to put a Palm logo on it, would you? Mar 16 00:43:13 I wouldn't do it for a per install, only for a very large upfront cash outlay. Mar 16 00:43:17 rwhitby: i did want to add my own taglines in there or move some of the funnier ones up Mar 16 00:43:31 mjkjr: just release a patch to do that Mar 16 00:44:26 rwhitby: large upfront cash would be better, no guarantee with per install Mar 16 00:44:34 and webdr back to 1.3.5.1 Mar 16 00:44:58 is anyone interested in before/after bootup times on 1.3.5.1 with the OC kernel? Mar 16 00:45:24 cryptk: if Palm wanted to put a Palm logo on Preware (meaning they officially endorsed it, but had no control over what it did), then yeah, for a small fee. Mar 16 00:45:53 rwhitby: I would say that small fee could feasibly be the exact amount of all webos-internals overhead costs, lol Mar 16 00:46:17 cryptk: well, Sprint paid for the server chassis, with no strings attached. Mar 16 00:46:27 exactly, lol Mar 16 00:46:39 and they got to write it off as charity more than likely Mar 16 00:46:45 yp Mar 16 00:46:47 since it was given to a non-profit Mar 16 00:47:03 yep, we arrange for it to go straight to OSUOSL, who is a registered org Mar 16 00:47:12 nice Mar 16 00:47:12 everyone wins :-) Mar 16 00:47:29 woo fight the man Mar 16 00:47:43 * mjkjr thinking 'Preware-Tagline-Editor' would be a good first patch? Mar 16 00:47:53 do it Mar 16 00:49:22 mjkjr: alternatively, contribute code for a tag-line editor window inside Preware ... Mar 16 00:49:58 i thought just editing the file sounded easier Mar 16 00:50:19 s/sounded/seemed Mar 16 00:50:25 i forgot my / Mar 16 00:52:14 so, I am thinking, time the bootup from the time i press power until the time I see something that can be considered the stock UI Mar 16 00:52:22 a.k.a. be able to pick out the wallpaper Mar 16 00:52:34 i've been doing some reading to educate myself a little more, maybe i don't look in the right place? Mar 16 00:52:39 I know it won't be exact, but it should be close enough to give a comparison Mar 16 00:53:05 this will be timed after phone activation and profile download Mar 16 00:53:30 basically, turn off phone, turn on and time it... install 800mhz OC kernel... turn off phone and turn on and time it Mar 16 00:54:48 cryptk: i'm sure there will be a noticeable difference. Mar 16 00:55:11 mjkjr: should be Mar 16 00:55:21 but how much... 10 seconds? 15? Mar 16 00:56:37 yeah i know, can't speed up much there, but i'm sure the UI is smoother Mar 16 00:56:37 first time I have ever downgraded a Pre Mar 16 00:56:47 the video is very impressive Mar 16 00:57:12 and they say their pool of 80 or so Alpha testers hasn't had a single problem with it Mar 16 00:58:30 ugg Mar 16 00:58:38 yeah, i think it would be cool, but i'll patiently wait for 100's to test 1.4 version when/if it's released before i do it Mar 16 00:58:41 boot time on the pre is ridiculous lol Mar 16 00:59:13 angel12: indeed Mar 16 00:59:26 I have never timed it, but I am prepared to be depressed at the before OC time, lol Mar 16 00:59:29 angel12: no it's not, my blackberry 7100i took almost 15 minutes, so i'm happy with webos boot time Mar 16 00:59:31 no its not Mar 16 00:59:41 ever use a blackberry? Mar 16 00:59:49 zsoc: lol Mar 16 00:59:49 im a droid dev so im used to 20second boot times Mar 16 00:59:50 haha Mar 16 00:59:51 or an android phone? Mar 16 01:00:09 try booting a Moment Mar 16 01:00:15 lol Mar 16 01:00:18 yeah Mar 16 01:00:27 in reality the 2 minutes or so isn't bad, but I jsut find it odd that it takes longer to bootup my phone than it does for me to completely power on two full towers worth the servers, lol Mar 16 01:00:29 but like i said, ive grown used to my droid haha Mar 16 01:02:00 * zsoc wonders why webos doesn't run an rt kernel Mar 16 01:02:14 * zsoc balks it off to being a silly idea and not knowing enough about kernel development himself Mar 16 01:02:27 retweet kernal Mar 16 01:03:34 odd... even after an EPR, full erase and doc I still have 4 launcher pages, lol Mar 16 01:03:39 seems like palm backs that up too Mar 16 01:04:35 cryptk: yep Mar 16 01:04:45 now I get to wait for all my app cat apps to reinstall Mar 16 01:05:01 including 2 quite large ones Mar 16 01:05:09 NFSU and Glyder2 Mar 16 01:05:30 nice Mar 16 01:05:39 i switched from pixi to new pre on friday and still had 6, i expected it would carry over though Mar 16 01:05:44 and for my contacts accounts to sync... Mar 16 01:06:08 figure this will take about 30 minutes... Mar 16 01:06:13 it is going over wifi now though Mar 16 01:06:57 I could just copy them all back in from the backups I made before this expirement, but I want to be as official about it as possible Mar 16 01:06:57 lol Mar 16 01:07:08 zsoc: utorrent makes no sense Mar 16 01:07:19 how does utorrent not make sense? Mar 16 01:07:32 because it isn't bloated and slow like azureus? Mar 16 01:07:40 mjkjr: .... i think it is beyond my abilities to describe utorrent. It is an amazingly simple torrent client. Mar 16 01:07:59 because i can't just type in what i want into a search bar Mar 16 01:08:00 zsoc: you just did describe it (but you forgot fast) Mar 16 01:08:09 cryptk: that happens to me a lot Mar 16 01:08:16 mjkjr: search the sites themselves Mar 16 01:08:23 (or search mine) Mar 16 01:12:33 think i got it, so what about ubuntu 9.10, "karmic koala" lol Mar 16 01:12:45 mjkjr: What about it? It's very nice. I would suggest it. Mar 16 01:12:50 I find it stable. Mar 16 01:13:09 works for me then Mar 16 01:18:32 zsoc: what is kubuntu? would you suggest it? Mar 16 01:19:10 why ubuntu and kubuntu Mar 16 01:19:42 mjkjr: Kubuntu is ubuntu but using kde4 instead of gnome Mar 16 01:19:50 mjkjr: you have the option to install kde4 afterwards as well Mar 16 01:20:02 so you can play with both of them at your leisure Mar 16 01:20:21 I might suggest #ubuntu for more support Mar 16 01:21:10 i have been running 9.10 since it was alpha. it is my favorite untu so farb Mar 16 01:21:15 too late zsoc, you already answered all my questions =) Mar 16 01:35:12 lol, i said i didn't want to install the ask.com toolbar but it did anyways Mar 16 01:35:35 kind of messed up Mar 16 01:36:21 I personally prefer linux mint over ubuntu, but it is basically the same thing Mar 16 01:36:37 jsut a slightly different GUI setup and it comes with things like flash and java preinstalled Mar 16 01:41:04 does anyone ever look at their battery temps? mine will get up to 42 today and the phone was warm, but just sitting here it's at 23. 42 just seems slightly warm for a small device Mar 16 01:42:06 cryptk: how do they get around the distribution legalities? Mar 16 01:42:17 zsoc: what legalities? Mar 16 01:42:23 ubuntu is open source Mar 16 01:42:26 mjkjr: for reference, installing the package "ubuntu-restricted-extras" fixes most of those problems he's referring to Mar 16 01:42:32 cryptk: oh, mint is not oss? Mar 16 01:42:37 interesting Mar 16 01:42:47 the code for java and flash may be propriatary and closed source but that doesn't mean they can't include it int eh dist Mar 16 01:42:54 wait, yes it does Mar 16 01:42:55 mint is FOSS Mar 16 01:43:20 no it doesn't, they can include pre-built binaries all they want Mar 16 01:43:33 they can't include any source code Mar 16 01:43:59 ubuntu doesn't include it because ubuntu doesn't have anything that isn't FOSS in it Mar 16 01:44:08 mine has things that are free Mar 16 01:44:13 but not necessarially OSS Mar 16 01:44:17 many would disagree with you Mar 16 01:44:25 so there is some closed source stuff in mint Mar 16 01:44:52 The idea that you can distribute something like flash or java at will Mar 16 01:45:23 You could suggest the user downloads it.. but you can't give it to them Mar 16 01:45:57 i don't understand, why would it matter if they are free Mar 16 01:46:03 they also have this little nugget on their site Mar 16 01:46:04 "This could get you into trouble if you are trying to distribute it in countries that allow software patents." Mar 16 01:46:12 they are not in the USA Mar 16 01:46:14 cryptk: like ANY COUNTRY Mar 16 01:46:19 not all countries Mar 16 01:46:37 cryptk: it is illegal to distribute something that does not belong to you, in the majority of the countries in the world, certainly in all of the civilized ones Mar 16 01:46:51 maybe they asked nicely? Mar 16 01:47:13 I don't know... all i know is that it has flash, MP3, java et all right out of the box Mar 16 01:47:29 they may be using FOSS alternatives to the Adobe Flash and such Mar 16 01:47:38 cryptk: that is an example of an OS I would not want to torrent, or help distribute in any manner :p Mar 16 01:47:39 there are FOSS solutions for java and flash Mar 16 01:47:45 cryptk: not good ones Mar 16 01:47:48 (well not for flash) Mar 16 01:47:51 yes good ones Mar 16 01:48:00 there is one good one, but I forget the name of it Mar 16 01:48:02 I'm ok with the java opensource solution Mar 16 01:48:15 and I am not at home atm so I can't see which one they use Mar 16 01:48:27 It's no big deal, we probably already are past this convo's welcome in here Mar 16 01:48:36 infobot: kick zsoc Mar 16 01:48:38 * infobot kicks zsoc Mar 16 01:48:39 ow Mar 16 01:48:56 lol Mar 16 01:51:54 forgot how big the free trial 3D apps are... Mar 16 01:51:59 I have 2 of those... Mar 16 01:52:13 I broke down and installed the unthrottle download manager patch to speed things along Mar 16 01:52:17 can someone: Mar 16 01:52:17 gst-inspect | grep -i id3v1 Mar 16 01:52:57 zsoc: does it matter if it is done on 1.3.5.1? Mar 16 01:53:02 cryptk: yes Mar 16 01:53:11 then I can't do it then, lol Mar 16 01:53:11 cryptk: I mean, I'll take that too :) Mar 16 01:53:16 oh, ok Mar 16 01:53:18 gimmie a sec Mar 16 01:53:23 I'm looking to verify something Mar 16 01:54:04 * PuffTheMagic declares that its icecream time Mar 16 01:54:53 * zsoc thought it was always beer time Mar 16 01:56:08 zsoc: no i like to mix it up with my mind altering substances Mar 16 01:56:19 i see Mar 16 01:56:40 mmm Mar 16 01:56:53 zsoc: returns nothing Mar 16 01:56:55 black raspberry chocolate chip Mar 16 01:57:09 cryptk: gst-inspect | grep -i typefind Mar 16 01:57:13 pink dazzle berry lemonade?? what what! Mar 16 01:57:39 ... Mar 16 01:58:03 I want that. Pink lemonade icecream... Mar 16 01:58:06 hmm, more of sorbet Mar 16 01:58:15 * zsoc gets out his sorbet machine Mar 16 02:00:30 zsoc: http://webos.pastebin.com/YbUcmnet Mar 16 02:01:02 * zsoc ponders Mar 16 02:01:47 cryptk: then why didn't grepping id3v1 get you anything? :p Mar 16 02:01:52 no clue Mar 16 02:02:15 wait... now it decides to return something Mar 16 02:02:22 lol... Mar 16 02:02:38 and I didn't typo it either... scrolled up to check Mar 16 02:02:39 cryptk: gst-inspect | grep -i demux_ogg Mar 16 02:02:46 maybe because I am installing a bunch crap atm Mar 16 02:03:07 ffmpeg: ffdemux_ogg: FFmpeg Ogg demuxer Mar 16 02:03:14 cryptk: and this is 1.3.5? Mar 16 02:03:18 1.3.5.1 Mar 16 02:03:50 freshly erased and doctored... only unthrottle download patch installed and Battery Monitor Mar 16 02:03:53 the rest is all App Cat Mar 16 02:04:42 kk Mar 16 02:12:50 everything finally installed... per instructions I am going to wait for the phone to cool down before I install it Mar 16 02:12:53 lol Mar 16 02:13:49 and also so i can time a "cold" boot Mar 16 02:13:57 even though temp has nothing to do with that Mar 16 02:18:33 interwebs went out for a sec Mar 16 02:23:43 ok, cold boot on OC kernel... lets see if it starts up, lol Mar 16 02:24:34 ~28 seconds from power button to palm pulsing Mar 16 02:24:38 Under no circumstances, should anyone type: stop mediaserver: killall mediaserver; rmmod bridgedriver Mar 16 02:24:40 it does bad things Mar 16 02:24:50 lol, like what Mar 16 02:24:56 thats ~5 second improvement Mar 16 02:25:16 For 1, I lost the ability to novacom. For 2, it's running ridiculously slow and stuttering and resetting the screen Mar 16 02:25:21 so an app can be patched? Mar 16 02:25:41 mjkjr: why not? Mar 16 02:25:42 ~1:31 from power button to wallpaper Mar 16 02:25:48 well why would you type that? Mar 16 02:26:19 zsoc, i don't know, i guess i've never seen a patch for a 3rd party app Mar 16 02:26:33 ~25 second boot time improvement Mar 16 02:26:41 cryptk: that's decent Mar 16 02:26:47 yep Mar 16 02:27:12 Actually, rmmod'ing the bridgedriver isn't so bad, I think it's trying to /modprobe/ it that does the dirty Mar 16 02:27:53 It's like restarting your phone without closing luna Mar 16 02:28:56 bringing up my contacts list takes ~1 second... took about 4 before Mar 16 02:29:02 that is a marked improvement Mar 16 02:29:21 web browser ~2 seconds down from ~4 Mar 16 02:30:13 cryptk: yeah I was impressed with everything the OC patch did, except break my data on 1.4 ;) Mar 16 02:30:35 well, the 1.4 one isn't released yet Mar 16 02:30:40 cryptk: especially awesome is flicking around the launcher Mar 16 02:30:44 feels like an iphone Mar 16 02:30:46 were you alpha? Mar 16 02:31:25 ya Mar 16 02:32:12 you are right Mar 16 02:32:32 it used to be I would flick left/right 3 times quickly to go to the far page of launchers Mar 16 02:32:43 then watch the first page magivally turn into the fourth Mar 16 02:32:52 now I see each page zip on by Mar 16 02:33:14 scrolling from top of a long page to the bottom is very fast too Mar 16 02:33:40 did he fix the data break problem? Mar 16 02:33:43 gpu compositing is overrated Mar 16 02:33:50 cryptk: not sure, i'm not his bff or anything Mar 16 02:33:54 I JUST TIMED OUT? Mar 16 02:33:57 lol Mar 16 02:34:00 I HAVEN'T HAD WIRC OPEN FOR 6 HOURS Mar 16 02:34:05 haha Mar 16 02:34:22 I have had a few issues with closing wirc but the service staying connected Mar 16 02:34:29 PuffTheMagic: wirc doesn't uh.. "clean" so much on exit eh? Mar 16 02:34:37 apparently I had two instances lol Mar 16 02:34:58 its a background app Mar 16 02:35:04 err Mar 16 02:35:10 multi stage app Mar 16 02:35:17 PuffTheMagic: well it needs a handler for when the main stage vanishes :p Mar 16 02:35:36 ummm Mar 16 02:35:53 actually, wirc can check for when the last stage closes and send a signal to wircd Mar 16 02:36:01 ummmm Mar 16 02:36:07 it should close properly Mar 16 02:36:17 preware starts in ~1:10 down from ~1:45 Mar 16 02:36:17 as is Mar 16 02:36:29 well it doesn't, I just had two instances time out from restarting my phone after having it closed for hours Mar 16 02:36:39 that one isn't so scientific though since it includes downloading feeds from the interwebs and can thus be affected by latency and such Mar 16 02:37:00 cryptk: turn feed updating to manual, test just feed loading Mar 16 02:37:26 cryptk: er, will obviously it will only test the type/number of feeds you have enabled Mar 16 02:37:26 I didn't time that before so I have nothing to compare to, but I can check anyway Mar 16 02:37:40 Adora: to what to we owe the pleasure? Mar 16 02:37:48 all feeds enabled (except testing feed) Mar 16 02:38:07 why can't i find the file with the preware taglines? i've seen it before Mar 16 02:38:33 zsoc: I'm assuming you guys have seen this thread - http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/236575-viral-campaign-now-your-time-help-palm.html Mar 16 02:39:15 mjkjr: it's at the top of the main-assistant.js Mar 16 02:39:18 I've composed a reply and ready to submit, but would love some feedback to make sure I'm not being smarmy Mar 16 02:39:29 zsoc: just loading feeds 1 min flat Mar 16 02:39:36 wanted to see what others thought about this...i am trying to install pdf redux patch, it kept failing, so I blew away my /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.pdfviewer directory and restored the folder from the 1.4.0 doctor, re-started and tried the patch again and it failed again. Mar 16 02:39:41 I've never done grassroots stuff from the company side of things =] Mar 16 02:39:47 i saw the title and preview when i hovered it but didn't bother reading the thread Mar 16 02:39:56 Adora: What is Palm's stance on the idea? Mar 16 02:40:19 zsoc: I'm using a "this is my personal opinion" disclaimer Mar 16 02:40:24 but I think it's friggin awesome Mar 16 02:40:29 and have some ideas on how to make it more awesome Mar 16 02:40:47 mikepre: possibly giving us an error might help... Mar 16 02:41:03 (inspired by rwhitby and Rick_work) Mar 16 02:41:05 Adora: Devrel sanctioning it might be more awesome ^_^ Mar 16 02:41:17 zsoc: +1 Mar 16 02:41:36 (and no, it's the first time I read the post... many of us around here don't get to P|C very often, if we can help it) Mar 16 02:41:45 zsoc: hehehe Mar 16 02:42:41 i have the whole webos.patches log file, what in particualr would help, its basically a bunch of Hung errors Mar 16 02:43:08 hunk errors that is Mar 16 02:43:24 we'll definitely help make waves, I just don't want to astroturf it Mar 16 02:43:39 19 out of 19 hunks FAILED -- saving reject Mar 16 02:43:57 mikepre: I have had issues with that patch as well Mar 16 02:44:18 wow... this latest thing (OC kernel) is amazing Mar 16 02:44:27 palm please give me a snapdragon in the Pre 2, lol Mar 16 02:44:35 that would be phenominal Mar 16 02:45:31 cryptk: er, I'd rather have a reasonable dualcore chip than a snapdragon, which is just good at draining your battery Mar 16 02:45:38 cryptk: yeah, only patch I cant get and it was quite useful in 1.3.5.*, i am not about to wipe out 50 other patches and start em over cause of one Mar 16 02:45:42 cryptk: there's a lot of cool arm stuff coming down the pipe Mar 16 02:46:27 zsoc: I can't wait Mar 16 02:46:44 Adora: I am all over that post now that you pointed it out Mar 16 02:47:11 Adora: what was your reply that you wanted comments on? Mar 16 02:47:33 cryptk: different catch phrase, basically Mar 16 02:48:00 heh, did you come up with one? Mar 16 02:48:08 mikeDOTd, what patch Mar 16 02:48:08 I could potentially display it on every DoD computer in the USA (and go to jail for it) lol Mar 16 02:48:14 mikepre* Mar 16 02:48:22 cryptk: probably not good marketing Mar 16 02:48:24 "this is MY phone" Mar 16 02:48:25 yeah Mar 16 02:48:26 lol Mar 16 02:48:28 cryptk: also, again, logged channel :P Mar 16 02:48:40 for people to tell the world what webOS means to them Mar 16 02:48:43 it was sarcasm, lol Mar 16 02:48:48 Adora: I like it Mar 16 02:48:49 adora: but there was that myphone3g commercial Mar 16 02:48:54 Adora: That catchphrase sounds a bit defensive imo Mar 16 02:48:56 but what is there to tie that in to the pre? Mar 16 02:49:07 and how webOS enables users and developers to do things that they can't do on other platforms Mar 16 02:49:11 right to tinker, etc Mar 16 02:49:15 How about "Go buy a webOS phone" Mar 16 02:49:28 like run their own kernel! :D Mar 16 02:49:32 * Sedorox is debating about it Mar 16 02:49:40 how webOS is a moral choice, not just one based on features Mar 16 02:49:42 if someone googles "this is MY phone" all theya re going to get is lots of posts saying that... if they google "Life moves pretty fast, don't miss a thing" they will find the new Ad campaign Mar 16 02:49:45 Sedorox: there's a few things i was debating turning on :) Mar 16 02:50:09 I'd like ipv6 myself, but not sure if anything else supports it on the system... no better way to find out then to try Mar 16 02:50:17 man, where's Rick_work when you need him? =] Mar 16 02:50:20 my catchphrase to iPhone/droid people is "my phone is open" Mar 16 02:50:54 my new one is about to be "Verizon stop talking my friends out of buying Pre's" Mar 16 02:51:50 all you need are cards Mar 16 02:52:12 Seriously, where is the aggressive Palm marketing to Verizon employees Mar 16 02:52:31 how about "My phone is..." and then people add in one or two words describing their Pre Mar 16 02:52:36 Adora: What about "webOS is MY phone" Mar 16 02:52:52 or "webOS is in MY phone" Mar 16 02:53:10 cryptk: ooh, I like that Mar 16 02:53:22 such as "My phone is... open" "My phone is... amazing" "My phone is... social" Mar 16 02:53:28 everyone chooses their own thing Mar 16 02:53:33 easier to jump in on, yeah Mar 16 02:53:39 all you have to do is complete the sentence Mar 16 02:53:40 I like that too Mar 16 02:53:43 cryptk++; Mar 16 02:53:56 then if Palm could convieniently launch an ad campaign on the same pre-determined date... that would be viral at it's best Mar 16 02:54:14 My phone is... it just is Mar 16 02:54:29 Can we just tell people that if you eat apples you become a sinner? Mar 16 02:54:37 so then there are tons of twitters, IM status's facebooks all talking about "My phone is..." as well as TV commercials, radio spots, etc Mar 16 02:54:42 psykoz: i like it Mar 16 02:54:48 lol Mar 16 02:54:53 oldest story in the book Mar 16 02:54:57 (kinda) Mar 16 02:54:59 palm flashmob? Mar 16 02:55:04 * rwhitby bbl - Adora already know how poor my marketing skills are ;-) Mar 16 02:55:06 My friend always tells me that Adam and Eve clearly weren't Asian, otherwise they would have eaten the snake instead. Mar 16 02:55:13 HAHAHA Mar 16 02:55:19 My phone throws apples through windows Mar 16 02:55:45 my phone throws apples at droids Mar 16 02:56:00 or better yet "My phone is... jailbreak free" Mar 16 02:56:30 "I am the control freak" ? Mar 16 02:56:31 My phone does so many cool things, I don't have time to come up with taglines Mar 16 02:56:35 someone at work asked my if "rooting" a pre was allowed, he thought it was like the iPhone jailbreak... I showed him the instructions on the Palm website, lol Mar 16 02:56:55 zsoc: here is one for you then "My phone is... multitasking" Mar 16 02:57:28 what's the potential negative use for this? Mar 16 02:57:29 rooting is for plants, my phone does what I tell it to do Mar 16 02:57:38 my phone is slow, my phone is crashing Mar 16 02:57:46 "My phone is awesome" Mar 16 02:57:53 true... may wanna put out a bugfix for 1.4 before that one... Mar 16 02:58:07 lol @ egaudet Mar 16 02:58:51 has anyone used jason's unified diff creator? Mar 16 02:58:55 my boss was pretty amazed when I VPN's into the work network and then SSH'd into a server to restart a hung service all from applebees, lol Mar 16 02:58:56 Adora: It's not crashing, it's just Luna being sick and tired of all your crap and deciding to restart... you know, like an etch-a-sketch shaking itself. Mar 16 02:59:08 zsoc: lol Mar 16 02:59:12 zsoc: hahah Mar 16 02:59:47 I think that is a viral ad feature from palm Mar 16 02:59:53 it displays the palm logo randomly **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Mar 16 02:59:56 2010