**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Mar 25 02:59:57 2010 Mar 25 03:00:39 got it Mar 25 03:00:46 site is behind varnish cache Mar 25 03:00:49 need to get that fixed Mar 25 03:01:13 ok, ill check back in if I can Mar 25 03:01:23 what's there should be quick and dirty enough to dow hat you need tho Mar 25 03:03:28 building now Mar 25 03:08:42 AnOutsider: it's not displaying the list of apps Mar 25 03:08:56 AnOutsider: the service is returning them, but all I get is a "Save Data" button Mar 25 03:11:08 AnOutsider: I get "Info: We got back 10 apps" but no list Mar 25 03:12:22 * rwhitby wonders if AnOutsider forgot to add a file Mar 25 03:15:26 aha, Error: warning, script load failed for file:///media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.saverestore/app/models/functions.js, Mar 25 03:16:05 AnOutsider: you forgot to commit app/models/functions.js Mar 25 04:28:13 webOS 1.4 overclocking patch has been uploaded by unixpsycho to http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=kernels/patches.git;a=tree Mar 25 04:29:17 * rwhitby bbl Mar 25 05:05:13 helllooo Mar 25 05:05:42 anyone familiar with the 800 patch Mar 25 06:21:49 xt is sweet Mar 25 06:26:24 Robi__: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XT ? :) Mar 25 06:30:14 xorg power tools Mar 25 06:30:23 is what i think he means Mar 25 06:30:29 dtzWill: how do i use xterm on pre? Mar 25 06:30:48 # xt info Mar 25 06:33:23 keith: enable the preware testing feeds, install 'xterm' from the applications category, and use the launcher button to run it. Mar 25 06:33:42 keith: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:X has some of the symbols **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Mar 25 17:16:14 2010 Mar 25 17:18:06 what about windowing systems? anyone know if fluxbox or something works? Mar 25 17:24:27 either a: install sshd and use port forwarding or b: iptables Mar 25 17:24:33 a will be much less effort Mar 25 17:48:42 palm-webos-device root # sh 800MHzOS14.sh install Mar 25 17:48:45 tar: Removing leading `/' from member names Mar 25 17:48:48 sed: 800MHzOS14.sh: No such file or directory Mar 25 17:48:51 cp: cannot stat 'arch/arm/boot/uImage': No such file or directory Mar 25 17:48:54 hrm. Mar 25 17:48:54 any ideas guys? Mar 25 17:49:02 or is that normal/ok? Mar 25 17:50:37 if that's normal/ok, it's a very badly written script Mar 25 17:51:45 ya thats what i thought :) Mar 25 18:00:56 In my country, "no such file or directory" means "everything is awesome!" Mar 25 18:01:05 ... or "rock on!" Mar 25 18:01:26 finland? Mar 25 18:02:55 do you guys know how to set up a http tunnel using novacomd? Mar 25 18:10:16 you don't Mar 25 18:10:27 you setup sshd and a wifi network off your pc Mar 25 18:10:36 then login to the phone from the pc and setup the tunnel in putty Mar 25 18:31:09 anyone knows if webos doctor works on linux? ubuntu actually? Mar 25 18:31:22 i meant webos quick install Mar 25 18:31:24 should Mar 25 18:31:29 en0x: yep Mar 25 18:31:53 en0x: (both, I've used them) Mar 25 18:32:05 god I love my ssd Mar 25 18:32:14 dtzWill, ok i will check it out Mar 25 18:32:20 wanna do 800mhz kernel Mar 25 18:32:20 :D Mar 25 18:32:53 god I love my ssd Mar 25 18:33:03 luvluvluv Mar 25 18:33:16 i don't have one Mar 25 18:33:18 if only linux loved it as much as me Mar 25 18:33:37 Programs install pretty much instantaniously Mar 25 18:39:30 eh WSQI doesn't see my palm pre Mar 25 18:39:33 and i put it in dev mode Mar 25 18:41:05 halfhalo: my ssd has slowed down significantly, and Dell refuses to release a firmware update even though the OEM (Samsung) has released one. Mar 25 18:41:55 heh Mar 25 18:42:05 I have a 60Gb Agility right now Mar 25 18:42:08 TRIM and everything Mar 25 18:42:22 oh nvm I had to run novacomd myself Mar 25 18:43:17 soooo, little known fact. Expression Encoder 3 likes to crash explorer Mar 25 18:43:23 2my ssd was just always slow :D Mar 25 18:44:17 I need my quad core right now.... Mar 25 18:44:25 root@palm-webos-device:/proc# cat cpuinfo Mar 25 18:44:25 Processor : ARMv7 Processor rev 3 (v7l) Mar 25 18:44:25 BogoMIPS : 796.91 Mar 25 18:44:27 ha! Mar 25 18:44:27 ;] Mar 25 18:46:44 * halfhalo may or may not be using an xp vm to connect to his home desktop using mesh Mar 25 18:47:30 * halfhalo also notices that the vm is using ie6 Mar 25 18:48:13 so Mar 25 18:48:27 its ie6.... Mar 25 18:48:29 is it worth it to do the overclock Mar 25 18:48:36 si Mar 25 18:48:39 senor Mar 25 18:48:41 i gotta swap my phone out in 2 days Mar 25 18:48:47 then no Mar 25 18:49:12 i'll wait a few weeks Mar 25 18:49:18 see if there's reports of a mass-exodus of palm pres Mar 25 18:51:49 I have a 256G SSD that was lightning fast, but now is slow Mar 25 18:52:11 I know of someone who flashed their dell samsung with regular fw Mar 25 18:52:16 I'd rather have the stability of 1.3.5 back. (over more speed) Mar 25 18:53:22 Note to self: Mesh via vm SUCKS Mar 25 18:53:37 halfhalo: I read that people who have very old dell firmware can't do that because dell broke the firmware update code Mar 25 18:53:54 root@palm-webos-device:/proc# cat cpuinfo Mar 25 18:53:55 Processor : ARMv7 Processor rev 3 (v7l) Mar 25 18:53:55 BogoMIPS : 796.92 Mar 25 18:54:02 Mine is faster Mar 25 18:54:26 * halfhalo goes to check dell's subforum on NBR Mar 25 18:56:15 hmmm Mar 25 18:56:21 what laptop you got nt4cats Mar 25 18:56:39 nt4cats, :( Mar 25 18:56:48 nt4cats, does it get very warm? Mar 25 18:56:52 halfhalo: it is a dell M4300 -- but it is a franken-laptop. I borrowed parts from many laptops to make this one Mar 25 18:57:09 en0x: I just copied-and-pasted your earlier comment and changed .91 to .92 ;) Mar 25 18:57:50 Hey all Mar 25 18:57:58 Quick Question Mar 25 18:58:12 about exporting information to a file Mar 25 18:58:19 halfhalo: We ordered Dell's equivelant of the Samsung PM800 last spring Mar 25 18:58:35 halfhalo: I'm sure I have the part number around here somewhere ... Mar 25 18:58:53 If i did a grep whatever /var/log/messages would that work? Mar 25 19:00:36 heh, nt4cats, its def possible Mar 25 19:00:47 requires a retrograde flash though Mar 25 19:00:59 and some new models fail Mar 25 19:01:25 halfhalo: if you have a URL to point me at I may be willing to try it after drinking a few beers ... Mar 25 19:01:32 nt4cats, i thought that u r using it Mar 25 19:01:35 (liquid bravery) Mar 25 19:02:11 en0x: no, I'm not an overclocker. I worry about shortening the life of my hardware. Mar 25 19:03:56 i will check it for few days Mar 25 19:06:37 nt4cats: This thread has the info: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=444979 Mar 25 19:10:26 halfhalo: thanks! Mar 25 19:10:44 its what ah do Mar 25 19:13:40 I think I'm going to brick my SSD, then. Mar 25 19:13:54 lol Mar 25 19:14:02 as long as you follow the steps it will work Mar 25 19:18:06 halfhalo: yes, but the first step is creating a image of my 256 gig drive via dd ... that'll take a little while ... Mar 25 19:18:13 heh Mar 25 19:18:16 possibly... Mar 25 19:18:50 I do have eSata on my laptop and a 750G 10K rpm external disk, so it won't be too bad ... Mar 25 19:49:35 is it possible backup my installed packages (not palm's backup tool) Mar 25 19:50:17 i installed the EA games and i don't want to loose them if i "accidentially" flash a different image Mar 25 20:19:48 the overclock is /amazing/ Mar 25 20:20:13 EA games? Mar 25 20:20:16 overclock? Mar 25 20:20:19 where are these goodies? Mar 25 20:20:38 http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre-tips-information-resources/238141-b-optimized-webos-1-4-kernel-video-wosqi-720mhz-800-mhz-easy-install-b.html <--overclock Mar 25 20:21:39 why the hell would you release such a guide in video format? Mar 25 20:21:52 why wouldn't you? Mar 25 20:22:00 they have text instructions further down in the post... Mar 25 20:23:58 Don't follow the video to install - it was only developed to show you how easy it is to install Mar 25 20:24:14 It's important to follow the full written instructions Mar 25 20:26:35 download it, run it, reboot? Mar 25 20:26:43 or all the "make sure it's not hot" stuff? Mar 25 20:27:50 and make sure you reboot twice, and make sure you uninstall any/all cpu patches Mar 25 20:29:01 i only see one reboot if you didn't have previous patches. Mar 25 20:30:48 bougyman: it forces a luna reboot, then you have to reboot again after that Mar 25 20:31:38 hey, what's the CWD when I'm running a bundled native (game) app? is it the apps bundled directory? Mar 25 20:33:02 bougyman, the EA games are in the app catalog. at least on my phone (germany) Mar 25 20:33:16 they are for free until 3/31/ Mar 25 20:40:45 lol @ http://forums.precentral.net/webos-patches/237386-patch-preware-taglines.html Mar 25 21:01:29 morning Mar 25 21:01:39 murnin Mar 25 21:01:41 hey Mar 25 21:03:31 do somebody know if there is a comman to chanve the bg color of xterm Mar 25 21:03:38 * oilsworkn may end up giving save&restore some gui love afterall :) Mar 25 21:04:28 works good on the pre but the white bg color is a probme for my irc skin Mar 25 21:05:24 keith: regarding your sed error - you didn't follow the instructions correctly for the install Mar 25 21:06:29 oilsworkn: it's now in a functional state ready for your magic Mar 25 21:06:49 lol Mar 25 21:07:03 just the checkbox list in a palm-group with all that padding Mar 25 21:07:30 tell me you're sending "pretty names" for all the available scripts Mar 25 21:07:33 and not just package id's Mar 25 21:07:49 as of this morning no Mar 25 21:09:15 IMHO, at minimum, every script should have a pretty name and a description Mar 25 21:09:42 * AnOutsider agrees and has stated as much Mar 25 21:09:57 though, at this phase of the game, I don't see it as paramount Mar 25 21:10:41 isn't this the phase where such things should be added though Mar 25 21:10:58 its functional Mar 25 21:11:16 and doesn't have 200 scripts to go and change to support a name and description Mar 25 21:11:30 oilsworkn: yeah, this is the stage where we focus on getting a small number of scripts right, and making sure the service gives everything the gui will ever want in the future Mar 25 21:12:14 but I was thinking that getting the name and version info for an installed app would be best done in JS with a call with applicationManager (maybe the service might need to proxy that call) Mar 25 21:12:25 since the JS will want to know what apps are installed and such Mar 25 21:12:49 since the scripts don't know what the app name or installed version is Mar 25 21:13:00 so every backup script is going to be tied to a specific appid? Mar 25 21:15:03 i mean, shouldn't the script know the name of whatever its trying to back up? Mar 25 21:15:22 the script doesn't need to, no. it works with appids Mar 25 21:15:32 app names change. appids don't. Mar 25 21:15:37 so it always has an appid Mar 25 21:15:43 the GUI definitely does need to know the name Mar 25 21:15:57 if the GUI can't get it, the service will need to, but not from the script Mar 25 21:16:22 but your point about scripts that don't match one to one to apps is a good one which may change the thinking Mar 25 21:16:38 or a script that has nothing to do with a specific app Mar 25 21:16:43 isn't going to have an appid to get the name for Mar 25 21:16:51 not to mention things you have backed up that may not be installed Mar 25 21:17:04 so js wouldn't have anything to get the name from Mar 25 21:17:07 since its not yet installed Mar 25 21:17:22 yeah, so maybe there is a service call with calls the script with an 'info' argument, and the script returns a JSON object with name, version, description, etc. Mar 25 21:17:25 probably best to include some basic info about the app Mar 25 21:17:38 and if the service or js can get up to date info then it can override it Mar 25 21:17:45 info about the backup script Mar 25 21:17:48 novaterm can't see my pre anymore.. Mar 25 21:17:49 which may or may not be about an app Mar 25 21:17:50 worst case, we ping a service that's aprsing palm's feeds Mar 25 22:02:51 the instructions for 800 kernel say you must be running 1.4 for a day before attempting...whats the reasoning ?(just doctered) Mar 25 22:03:58 it's seems pointless reason for me Mar 25 22:04:50 maybe it's so you can enjoy 1.4 for a little bit before overclocking it and possibly causing stability issues Mar 25 22:04:51 cause its in the instructions! Mar 25 22:05:57 well at least these instructions were written by people with enough knowledge to put this together---my favorite is when the most popular instructions for a task is someone who has no idea who hacked something together and probably isn't sure WHY it works, but insists every step is paramount Mar 25 22:06:31 now turn off your device, remove the battery, and put it on its side for 30 min, then plug it in for 10 seconds (count)... etc Mar 25 22:06:39 * dtzWill gets bored of making up stupid instructions Mar 25 22:06:47 but you find these on forums all the time x.x Mar 25 22:08:32 lol Mar 25 22:08:39 haha, i dunno if i can wait that long :) Mar 25 22:08:42 you didn't do it for exactly 10 seconds, did you? Mar 25 22:09:06 bah Mar 25 22:09:16 oilsworkn: well i don't know how to count, so i just guessed.... :P Mar 25 22:09:20 webos isn't that slow that it needs to be overclocked Mar 25 22:09:21 * dtzWill takes even cheaper shot Mar 25 22:09:59 anyway what i was getting at at least these aren't super worthless, and sometimes these instructions just exist to prevent crazy edge cases/cover their asses Mar 25 22:10:11 i haven't had a chance to watch the overclocked video, is it noticeably better? Mar 25 22:10:30 then you're stuck always wanting it to be faster Mar 25 22:10:36 and 141 comes out and teh patch isn't compatible anymore Mar 25 22:10:40 and now you're angry Mar 25 22:10:54 and your phone feels so slow! Mar 25 22:11:05 * dtzWill installs a patch to underclock his so when 1.4.1 comes out it'll be SO AWESOME Mar 25 22:11:25 haha it's like driving on the highway for hours and finally having to go 30 and being like wtf crawl Mar 25 22:11:35 get that feeling all the time when i'm on vacation with my little eee and get my desktop back Mar 25 22:11:47 oh man dtzWill, the browser and camera are like instantanteous Mar 25 22:11:57 freeway/city is the perfect analogy Mar 25 22:14:47 haha he has vba on there. wonder what effect overclocking has on vba's performance :) Mar 25 22:14:57 * dtzWill tells everyone who wants faster gba to install overclock patch Mar 25 22:15:17 dtzWill: will it help the audio? Mar 25 22:15:54 Tibfib: it should--everything that's slow/bad about it is due to cpu speed limitations afaik Mar 25 22:16:07 nice Mar 25 22:16:43 that said good audio only will happen if you can get 100% speed without it, else by necessity your sound will be off which can 'sound' bad fairly quickly Mar 25 22:18:11 ooo in comments people have tried it :D Mar 25 22:18:40 Boy, I can't wait for good sound in fire emblem :) Mar 25 22:18:52 Tibfib: http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre-tips-information-resources/238141-b-optimized-webos-1-4-kernel-video-wosqi-720mhz-800-mhz-easy-install-b-27.html#post2332383 Mar 25 22:19:09 claims dramatic speedups in golden sun, for example, with sound on Mar 25 22:19:53 wow, the internet here at work is being crappy Mar 25 22:20:06 maybe that IT guy should get off irc and fix something Mar 25 22:20:19 oilsworkn: lol :) Mar 25 22:20:36 dtzWill: expedite bench at 800MHz showed significant improvements in operations such as image blends Mar 25 22:20:51 but overall still clearly behind raster's mystery device Mar 25 22:21:08 (which he says clocks at 800) Mar 25 22:21:12 xcomp: nice! and grrr i want that device :) Mar 25 22:21:41 * dtzWill makes a new patch that 'clocks to 1ghz' that just modifies the pieces of the kernel that report speed (bogomips calc, etc) Mar 25 22:22:19 it definitely makes the phone feel much snappier Mar 25 22:22:53 Tibfib: sorry for the link spam, but someone who tried fire emblem, fwiw http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre-tips-information-resources/238141-b-optimized-webos-1-4-kernel-video-wosqi-720mhz-800-mhz-easy-install-b-25.html#post2332212 Mar 25 22:23:22 xcomp: yeah, i was joking. it definitely is the real deal, and good work on their parts :) Mar 25 22:23:32 music remix loads amazingly fast Mar 25 22:24:53 dtzWill: Nice! Mar 25 22:26:33 lol @ bbcode in teh title Mar 25 22:26:56 like: "hey, if i put bold tags around my title, itl be bold in the list and more views!" Mar 25 22:27:04 lol, saw that as well Mar 25 22:28:11 and, i have to say, that i think the post after that fire emblem post is better Mar 25 22:28:15 "This is probably going to be the biggest thread on PreCentral" Mar 25 22:28:22 a whole 28 pages? Mar 25 22:29:08 how long has it been up? Mar 25 22:29:33 shoot, it started today. That's not bad. Biggest? Probably not... Mar 25 22:31:19 it started yesterdaty Mar 25 22:31:24 and, as far as biggest or fastest Mar 25 22:31:33 you've never visited teh webos quickinstall threads? Mar 25 22:31:34 xD Mar 25 22:31:49 im pretty sure the "jason needs our love" thread got bigger faster Mar 25 22:36:07 hah, like many of you, I try and avoid the forums as much as possible Mar 25 22:37:09 i see you postin' all the time Mar 25 22:37:23 you've got kevin as your avatar, right? Mar 25 22:38:03 haha yeah i've seen that too :D maybe you just post on the threads i look at :) Mar 25 22:39:05 haha, okay, I ususally post in the webos dev forums.. Mar 25 22:39:10 I try to avoid the other areas Mar 25 22:39:26 lol Mar 25 22:39:30 (but sometimes I fail, yes :P) Mar 25 22:39:43 LOL okay lol those patching scripts, is there a reason there's no recovery path and they ignore return codes? :/ Mar 25 22:40:02 to make your pre explode Mar 25 22:40:14 minus the double lol sorry, not that funny Mar 25 22:40:55 ehy dtzWill! Mar 25 22:41:04 did you try the 800mhz overclock yet? Mar 25 22:41:27 I ran some testing on VBA Mar 25 22:41:43 Pokemon Fire Red now runs at 95% with sound off (aka, fully playable) Mar 25 22:42:03 VincentLaw: lemme know how it went. actually i might try it eventually anyway Mar 25 22:42:14 VincentLaw: excellent! Mar 25 22:42:16 bbl, food time Mar 25 22:43:56 hey guys, one quick question, i want to try the new 720mhz kernel on a 1.3.5.1 webos, I only have the auto-enable patch for the mobilehotspot, freetetherd and the facebook chat spoof patch installed, do i need to remove them before this or is it ok? Mar 25 22:44:21 mandaman2k: as far as i know, the 720mhz patch ONLY works on 1.4 Mar 25 22:44:29 though i haven't looked at it much Mar 25 22:44:49 side note: 1.4 > 1.3.5.1 Mar 25 22:45:00 there was testing on 1.3.5.1 Mar 25 22:45:05 dunno if the patch released is for that Mar 25 22:45:17 anyway, for the patch, they only need you to uninstall CPU-related patches Mar 25 22:45:25 (previous over/underclocks, etc) Mar 25 22:46:10 i thought it too, but on the forum for the 1.4 theres, the a link to a 1.3.5.1 one, but now that your saying that, I can't figure it out if it is a release o testing patch.... Mar 25 22:46:45 http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre-tips-information-resources/236315-prototype-video-wosqi-720-800-mhz-os1-3-5-1-a.html Mar 25 22:51:09 lol 800mhz kernel 15minutes of using google maps and i'm down by 8% of battery Mar 25 22:51:18 i think i gona uninstall it Mar 25 22:52:27 lol Mar 25 22:52:48 15 mins to kill 92% of batt? Mar 25 22:52:57 certainly not worth it Mar 25 22:53:03 not 92 Mar 25 22:53:04 8 Mar 25 22:53:12 down by, not down to Mar 25 22:53:14 i see Mar 25 22:53:15 lol Mar 25 22:55:05 so someone created the twitter account "preware" Mar 25 22:55:11 so now when i search for what people are saying about it Mar 25 22:55:17 i get all this guys posts in another language Mar 25 22:56:54 lol Mar 25 22:57:05 contact twitter and make them to remove the account ;D Mar 25 22:58:06 that sounds like a waste of time Mar 25 23:02:26 ok, just installed the 720mhz kernel for 1.3.5.1 all seem good by now Mar 25 23:03:50 mandaman2k: yeah, that's until it explodes into flames Mar 25 23:03:54 make sure you get it on video Mar 25 23:03:54 :p Mar 25 23:05:03 jejeje, once i get home i'll make one, i'll just be trying it out for now and see the battery impact Mar 25 23:09:33 Hi all. How do y'all feel about the 720/800 mhz patch Mar 25 23:10:26 I'm wondering if i should install it. My pre has handled all other CPU patches before. Mar 25 23:11:23 * oilsworkn feels indifferent Mar 25 23:11:47 So, is it a bad idea to install the 720/800 mhz patch? Mar 25 23:12:07 it means i have a complete lack of interest in it Mar 25 23:12:31 i remember a while back someone telling me they didnt like it b/c of how the devs are handling it.. Mar 25 23:12:49 Eh, id like my pre to run faster +oil.. Mar 25 23:13:45 imop45: i don't think anyone wants their pre to run slower Mar 25 23:13:50 i miss Palm OS's speed.. ltm i want to request a patch that disable all the animations in webos! Mar 25 23:13:59 hey, what's the CWD when I'm running a bundled native (game) app? is it the apps bundled directory? Mar 25 23:14:07 like the menu animations..those annoy me. Mar 25 23:14:22 imop45: i've actually thought about a patch like that Mar 25 23:14:36 but that was mostly when the command menu would slide up/down getting on my nerves Mar 25 23:14:46 but the fade in/out it does now is much improved Mar 25 23:15:01 oilsworkn: preware.com is some company, and now they have a twitter account. Mar 25 23:15:06 yeah? 1.4 made it slower for me. Mar 25 23:15:19 * rwhitby is watching PDK video Mar 25 23:15:33 the fade in/out is certainly faster then the slide up down they used to do Mar 25 23:15:53 (for command menu's) Mar 25 23:16:05 (the row of buttons at the bottom of scenes in case you dont know what a command menu is) Mar 25 23:16:12 hi all Mar 25 23:16:20 en0x: um, a kernel is one of the most version-specific things there are on the device. of course an 800MHz kernel is going to be webOS-version specific. Mar 25 23:16:20 but as far as the patch Mar 25 23:16:27 Device menu slides still. (thanks for explaining) Mar 25 23:16:28 while a faster pre would be nicer Mar 25 23:16:35 id like my pre to last a while Mar 25 23:16:37 and be stable Mar 25 23:16:41 which is not what overclocking gets you Mar 25 23:17:17 oilsworkn i have every computer i own overclocked and i have never noticed a stabality issue/life issue Mar 25 23:17:33 rwhitby, why u talking to me about it? Mar 25 23:17:44 09:44 en0x: 08:33:42> it's seems pointless reason for me Mar 25 23:18:00 Hmm, im hoping a new sprint device will be out in june, but if it does break it i have insurance etc. Mar 25 23:18:25 rwhitby, yeah but I was talking about the thing that when you update to 1.4 u have to run it for a day and then try to apply to kernel :P Mar 25 23:18:41 en0x: oh, sorry. backlog fail Mar 25 23:18:48 and ive had to send 8 pres back so im indifferent now to sending them back. Mar 25 23:19:03 i still have my original pre Mar 25 23:19:03 en0x: your comment came directly after "09:44 latta: 08:32:34> the instructions for 800 kernel say you must be running 1.4 for a day before attempting...whats the reasoning ?(just doctered)" Mar 25 23:19:26 rwhitby, yap and this is what i was pointing to :P Mar 25 23:19:28 en0x: ignore me :) Mar 25 23:19:31 +oil: your lucky Mar 25 23:19:39 fyi..just applied kernel patch and its working fine Mar 25 23:19:42 lolz Mar 25 23:20:24 no one in their right mind would be on the normal pre if they have ever used a pre plus Mar 25 23:20:50 +oil: on june 6th my 1st pre wouldnt even activate properly. my second had the batt problem when you close the screen the third kept shorting batts out...etc Mar 25 23:21:03 unless that crazy person hates verizon or verizon has shitty connection in thier area, or they dont have the money Mar 25 23:21:11 those reasons would definitely make them crazy Mar 25 23:21:23 scoutcamper: yeah, and pay $1000 more for it Mar 25 23:21:51 lol Mar 25 23:21:52 mm...wasting a grand for a slightly faster pre. yay. Mar 25 23:22:12 i am on a family plan and it is cheaper on vzw than sprint Mar 25 23:22:25 i'm gonna go blo my nose with a thousand dollar bill :) Mar 25 23:22:26 yeah, ill just get myself a family plan Mar 25 23:22:34 for me and my imaginary wife and kids Mar 25 23:22:42 lol Mar 25 23:22:46 ltm Mar 25 23:23:05 pre plus is just a better device, even if you just get an un activated one from palm Mar 25 23:23:05 imop, my pre had battery problems too Mar 25 23:23:12 i just stuck in the mcgyver piece of paper Mar 25 23:23:25 scoutcamper: id love to switch to a pre plus Mar 25 23:23:35 ill give you my address to send me the $600 for one :) Mar 25 23:23:42 lol Mar 25 23:23:47 im good Mar 25 23:23:50 i didnt know why it was doing it. Sprint tech didnt either at that point it was june 15th Mar 25 23:24:20 +oil: is it possible to disable all menu animations? Mar 25 23:24:34 i dont know Mar 25 23:24:36 i always wanted to look though Mar 25 23:24:41 oilsworkn i dont have any desire to do that Mar 25 23:24:50 I'm still on my first pre and no problemas at all, got it since july Mar 25 23:25:21 the only thing is my led turns on by itself even when it is closed and in my pocket Mar 25 23:25:35 well, no one in their right mind wouldn't want to send oil money for a pre plus Mar 25 23:25:37 wow Mar 25 23:25:40 phail Mar 25 23:25:44 and i'm still on 1.3.5.1 and have never activated the led patch Mar 25 23:25:57 why no 1.4?!?!?! Mar 25 23:25:59 I'm on my first three Pre's, and can't return any of them cause none of them have any warranty. No hardware problems with any of them. Mar 25 23:26:03 hmm, weird. ive had my led button freeze Mar 25 23:26:13 because of the mobile hotspot Mar 25 23:26:26 +rwhitby: why no warranties? Mar 25 23:26:44 imop45: I'm in Australia. No webOS device has an international warranty. Mar 25 23:26:46 and the thing that interested me the most from 1.4 was Flash, but it hasn't been out yet Mar 25 23:27:03 Oh. no provider insurance either? Mar 25 23:27:11 ohh, and I'm in Mexico Mar 25 23:27:12 imop45: what provider? Mar 25 23:27:35 wifi provider! Mar 25 23:27:36 imop45: No Sprint in Australia, and the other two are unlocked GSM devices from Germany. Mar 25 23:27:46 rwhitby has the freetetherd been updated to 1.4 or did palm or sprint issue a STOP! order? Mar 25 23:27:48 Cellphone provider. Mar 25 23:27:57 hmm, i see. Mar 25 23:28:12 scoutcamper: Palm and/or Sprint have never issued a "STOP!" order on anything. Mar 25 23:28:25 did they ask it to stop? Mar 25 23:28:29 puff is the sole developer of freetether Mar 25 23:28:32 Wow, big $ on the Pre's. You must really love it :) Mar 25 23:28:33 imop45: my cellphone provider has never heard of a webOS device. Mar 25 23:28:40 or is there just no interest? Mar 25 23:28:53 puff doesn't care about end users Mar 25 23:29:02 scoutcamper: why would freetetherd need updating for 1.4? Mar 25 23:29:03 has there been any work on getting the palm specific header functions into the WIDK? Mar 25 23:29:09 your crys for fixes will only anger him and send him into a user-killing rage Mar 25 23:29:21 oilsworkn LOL! Mar 25 23:29:42 Maybe some users need to be killed Mar 25 23:29:47 rwhitby, would you think that it would be useable for 1.4 vzw? Mar 25 23:30:08 scoutcamper: it's in the testing feed. that means you get to test out whether that is the case or not. Mar 25 23:30:10 you have mobile hotspot, why do you need freetether? Mar 25 23:30:52 to do tethering without the $40 a month fee Mar 25 23:30:59 to steal the bits? Mar 25 23:31:06 lol Mar 25 23:31:10 i thought you were on the dirt cheap family plan? Mar 25 23:31:19 not including tethering Mar 25 23:31:22 kick little timmy off the phone, and get mobile hotspot Mar 25 23:31:34 is CPU scaler safe with &@) patch? Mar 25 23:31:37 i have data/mms/calling dirt cheap, not tethering Mar 25 23:31:49 720* Mar 25 23:31:58 &@) patch ftw Mar 25 23:32:11 oilsworkn: I prefer the ^%& patch Mar 25 23:32:21 sorry, i got shift happy Mar 25 23:32:43 rwhitby what is the link for the testing feed so i can install it on preware? Mar 25 23:32:50 ~testing-feed Mar 25 23:32:53 657 patch? havent heard of it Mar 25 23:33:09 ~botslap Mar 25 23:33:20 ??? Mar 25 23:33:28 hmm, on vacation Mar 25 23:33:58 ~who is imop45 Mar 25 23:34:27 imop45 is in london :D Mar 25 23:34:41 ltm na oklahoma city. Mar 25 23:34:53 big difference. Hmm, is the bot dead? Mar 25 23:34:55 oilsworkn: pdk video is worth watchin Mar 25 23:35:04 ~ Mar 25 23:36:50 does anyone here have the PDK headers that I could get ahold of the PDK's headers so I can compile on linux? Mar 25 23:37:18 eg in the WIDK? Mar 25 23:38:10 gaffo_home: they are palm proprietary files, so you need to download them from Palm Mar 25 23:39:06 rwhitby: what pdk video? Mar 25 23:39:31 the gdc thing Mar 25 23:39:32 ? Mar 25 23:39:32 rwhitby, kk. didn't konw if there was a way to extrract them eaisly from that download Mar 25 23:41:08 oilsworkn: PDK video says PDK plugins will be in separate processes will be in a lightweight security sandbox chroot jail restricting the process to only be able to use the things it should be using. Mar 25 23:41:47 gaffo_home: that's something we've been looking at Mar 25 23:41:50 so, no ipkgplugin? Mar 25 23:41:52 where does one get a COMPLETE list of available luna-service calls on webos? Mar 25 23:42:13 oilsworkn: that's the reason why I haven't jumped at the PDK for our deep intrusive stuff Mar 25 23:42:42 dthought: dbus-util --capture, and watch them go buy. or decompile the java service libraries. Mar 25 23:42:48 s/buy/by/ Mar 25 23:43:00 rwhitby: right: if we have to stick with a service to keep preware working, im all for it Mar 25 23:43:19 rwhitby: :-p will i get a app, that uses those "internal" app calls to the official app catalog? Mar 25 23:43:20 assuming they don't sandbox them also Mar 25 23:43:22 oilsworkn: same for most of our services Mar 25 23:43:31 lol Mar 25 23:43:35 i hate disconnects Mar 25 23:43:59 oilsworkn: they can't sandbox what we do. we can install it anywhere. Mar 25 23:44:19 oilsworkn: unless they sandboxed *all* access to the device Mar 25 23:44:44 rwhitby the testing feed only has the service, where can i get the app? Mar 25 23:44:54 rwhitby, it looks like a nullsoft installer. Mar 25 23:45:10 gaffo_home: 7zip can open the windows binary Mar 25 23:45:41 rwhitby in reference to freetetherd Mar 25 23:45:46 what about wircd Mar 25 23:45:51 could it become wircplugin? Mar 25 23:46:10 oilsworkn: yeah, it could. Mar 25 23:46:16 well thats awesome Mar 25 23:46:28 yep, should do that before the middle of the year. Mar 25 23:46:35 i need to talk egaudet or puff into redoing it as plugin Mar 25 23:46:37 rwhitby, cool. I just ran it in crossover and only extracted the sample files which gave me the headers. much more manual. Is there anything 7zip can't extract? Mar 25 23:46:38 oilsworkn: here's our new server: http://staff.osuosl.org/~bkero/nasadmin/P3101214.JPG Mar 25 23:46:56 brb Mar 25 23:47:02 oilsworkn: and in the rack: http://staff.osuosl.org/~bkero/nasadmin/nasserver/P3111227.JPG Mar 25 23:47:48 ohh server porn Mar 25 23:47:53 we're no longer in the same rack as master.kernel.org, cause we went from 1U to 2U. Mar 25 23:48:03 NSFW Mar 25 23:48:08 lol Mar 25 23:48:41 anyways Mar 25 23:48:48 bbl Mar 25 23:48:50 work sucks, so im going home Mar 25 23:48:52 we're now in a rack with OpenID and E17 Mar 25 23:49:01 and KernelTrap Mar 25 23:50:04 rwhitby the freetetherd app does not work on vzw Mar 25 23:50:30 scoutcamper: why tell me? I'm not the maintainer. Mar 25 23:50:32 i get noting at all, not the vzw buy our tethering plan ... Mar 25 23:50:51 rwhitby who is? Mar 25 23:51:25 the person listed in the Maintainer field? Mar 25 23:51:40 thats just a name, not an email address Mar 25 23:52:17 that'll be the first test then. Mar 25 23:52:43 lol Mar 25 23:52:57 had to reboot phone, now goes to email address Mar 25 23:55:10 is rwhitby overclocking his pre? Mar 25 23:55:44 anyone know if the source to the overclock patch has been released? I just see the script binaries... Mar 25 23:56:25 jhojho: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=kernels/patches.git;a=summary i believe Mar 25 23:56:51 thx Mar 25 23:57:34 jhojho any reason? Mar 25 23:57:56 scoutcamper: I want to be able to read the code before install Mar 25 23:58:38 ahh Mar 25 23:58:58 * scoutcamper wants to make his pixi run at 1000mhz D Mar 26 00:01:39 is that within the realm of reality? Mar 26 00:05:01 the actual patch is here http://bit.ly/cgyUMu Mar 26 00:05:55 scoutcamper: i've seen claims that over 800mhz is diminishing returns with some "IO" limitation but have yet to see a complete explanation as to why Mar 26 00:06:12 lol Mar 26 00:06:15 it looks like the conservative governor is now compiled in Mar 26 00:06:39 prolly becaue web os is like err, i dont have a 1ghz processor Mar 26 00:06:54 hmm. not sure if I like the last part of the patch. where the CURR_ARM_FREQ is set to 600 instead of 500 Mar 26 00:06:56 jhojho: I'm intending to autobuild kernels with patches applied Mar 26 00:07:17 I can understand messing with the upper end but IMO the bottom half should remain stock Mar 26 00:07:22 rwhitby, build a kernel with every patch installed Mar 26 00:07:27 :D Mar 26 00:07:33 rwhitby: see lines 312-335 Mar 26 00:07:55 jhojho: yeah, I agree that the kernel should run at stock speeds by default, and an app should clock that up. Mar 26 00:08:13 I would ask unixpsycho to change that Mar 26 00:08:28 is jhojho voulenteering to write the app? Mar 26 00:08:33 no Mar 26 00:08:35 the app is already written Mar 26 00:08:41 I can fix the patch though =) Mar 26 00:08:52 although I rather the patch owner do so Mar 26 00:14:27 rwhitby: here's the revised portion if you want to use it instead. https://pastee.org/gypn7 Mar 26 00:15:04 the repo should also contain the revised .config so that people can roll their own if they want to Mar 26 00:18:52 that version leaves the min freq to 125mhz Mar 26 00:19:33 https://pastee.org/y9baa this version sets the min freq to 500 instead of 600mhz. Mar 26 00:36:05 AnOutsider: nice work on the save screen Mar 26 00:36:27 AnOutsider: are you working on it in the next 8 hours? Mar 26 00:37:46 not unless I sleepwalk :) Mar 26 00:38:22 is it int he testing feeds? I wanna try it on my phone. I dont wanna lose my game progress again Mar 26 00:38:54 Is dungeon hunter supported yet? Mar 26 00:39:51 that interface is from anoutsider? Mar 26 00:41:38 * VincentLaw facepalms @ received support email (paraphrased) "I couldn't download your app, refund me" Mar 26 00:41:49 heh Mar 26 00:42:16 yes, random person, let's just skip the whole "support" part and go right to refunding that I never offered in the first place. I have no problems offering refunds for something that's my fault, but really >.> Mar 26 00:42:38 hi guys, on 1.5 someone knows if there's a easy way to fix ExpandableListView with RelativeLayout as rows? Here it doesn't get my padding attribute to work correctly. Mar 26 00:42:52 1.5? Mar 26 00:42:56 sdk 1.5 Mar 26 00:43:06 on the other sdk's it works correctly Mar 26 00:43:21 there's a 1.5 SDK? Mar 26 00:43:34 if there is, its probably under an NDA Mar 26 00:43:43 @oil: haven't seen it recently, but yeah I did the base UI last night Mar 26 00:43:58 and updated the save scene to use toggles earlier Mar 26 00:44:00 VincentLaw, what kind of question is that? Mar 26 00:44:15 mufumbo: it's the kind of question that makes me wonder what you're talking about :p Mar 26 00:44:36 since 1.4 is current, and 1.4.1 is the rumored next webos update that precentral has mentioned Mar 26 00:44:50 just sayin' Mar 26 00:44:52 aghahaghahahah sorry Mar 26 00:44:58 wrong window Mar 26 00:45:00 :( Mar 26 00:45:07 :p Mar 26 00:46:07 1.4.1 is confirmed Mar 26 00:48:05 dont knwo if this is known or not, but adding a feed with a name with a space in it in preware results in error on update Mar 26 00:48:10 AnOutsider: I've pushed toggles to the restore screen and updated the list screen too Mar 26 00:48:14 it adds the second word to the beginning of the URL Mar 26 00:48:18 AnOutsider: yep, known. Mar 26 00:48:21 k Mar 26 00:48:46 Anyone know how to restrict the input in that field to lowercase alphanumeric only, no spaces? Mar 26 00:49:00 AnOutsider: Save/Restore 0.2.5 pushed Mar 26 00:49:11 adding the testing feeds now Mar 26 00:49:29 rwhitby: is dungeon hunter supported yet? or can you direct me to the url of the supported apps? Mar 26 00:50:35 Tibfib: install the app, and look in the list of everythign Mar 26 00:50:39 rwhitby: will have to specify a function as charsAllow to the textfield's attributes Mar 26 00:51:02 AnOutsider or oil: any chance you could add that to preware? Mar 26 00:51:07 rwhitby: fair enough :) Mar 26 00:51:36 what? Mar 26 00:51:44 11:20 AnOutsider: rwhitby: will have to specify a function as charsAllow to the textfield's attributes Mar 26 00:52:03 or the custom feed name Mar 26 00:52:12 AnOutsider: oh, it can have hypens too Mar 26 00:52:25 rwhitby, so looking at the libpdl.so that I have in the widk, it doesn't seem to have the full list of symbolds that are defined in the PDL* headers. I made my WIDK about a month ago. Should I rebuild to get a newer lib or am I using the wrong lib? spefically PDL_GetCallingPath isn't there Mar 26 00:52:40 [-a-zA-Z0-9]+ Mar 26 00:52:47 yeah anything except a space it seems Mar 26 00:52:58 underscore seemed to work too Mar 26 00:53:01 AnOutsider: no, we don't want special characters in there. Mar 26 00:53:34 gaffo_home: we're getting the libpdl.so from the doctor, and probably still from the 1.3.5 doctor Mar 26 00:54:08 rwhitby, so if I got it in 'some other way' it would likely be a newer one, correct? Mar 26 00:56:04 gaffo_home: if you can automate extracting it from the PDK, please add the Makefile commands to do so. Mar 26 00:56:05 woot, finally got it Mar 26 00:56:29 rwhitby, didn't think of that Mar 26 00:56:35 gaffo_home: that's something we want to do, but just haven't got around to yet. Mar 26 00:56:35 rwhitby, where is that makefile / git repo? Mar 26 00:56:47 gaffo_home: preware/cross-compile.git Mar 26 00:57:17 gaffo_home: at git.webos-internals.org Mar 26 00:57:26 rwhitby, kk Mar 26 00:58:13 I'm making a new blank WIDK box so I can mess with it from there. for some reason I couldn't update my widk build directory on my old one, it likely moved since I did it originally Mar 26 00:59:28 gaffo_home: and if you have any ideas on how to restructure the WIDK layout and build structure, I'm all ears :-) Mar 26 00:59:43 it's getting a bit unwieldy as it is Mar 26 00:59:45 rwhitby, yeah urm :) Mar 26 00:59:55 with saverestore I can see people trading save games now Mar 26 01:00:04 AnOutsider: yep Mar 26 01:00:12 I can't remember, is the WIDK basically worthless once the PDK actually hits full release or does it build on top of it / complement it? Mar 26 01:00:26 chrisa: it subsumes the PDK Mar 26 01:00:44 i.e. the PDK becomes one of the libraries that the WIDK supports Mar 26 01:01:18 I warn you, I know nothing about the pdk Mar 26 01:01:51 chrisa: understood. I'm also in a bit of a holding patter about the WIDK waiting for Palm to show it's hand with respect to the Linux PDK build environment. Mar 26 01:01:59 s/patter/pattern/ Mar 26 01:02:21 I'm hoping Palm will just publish their OpenEmbedded setup. Mar 26 01:02:29 rwhitby, yeah, that was a dissapointment Mar 26 01:03:07 rwhitby, I think the one issue is the opengles emulation for desktop. which I don't understand why it's so hard as it's just a subset of opengl, atleast the 2.0 is Mar 26 01:03:14 I doubt that Palm will go with scratchbox2, and therefore when they do show their hand we will have a reckoning to consider. Mar 26 01:05:12 Tibfib: the main determiner as to whether something is supported by Save/Restore at the moment is whether I have purchased it or not :-) Mar 26 01:06:24 what's this save/restore for? Mar 26 01:06:38 AnOutsider: any way to reduce the left and right whitespace in the screens? Mar 26 01:06:47 gaffo_home: http://bit.ly/saverestore Mar 26 01:06:56 I was playing with that earlier, I got ti down some with the padding Mar 26 01:06:58 AnOutsider: to provide maximum space for the app names? Mar 26 01:07:14 but oil would prolly know better having fought with that before (I prefer to roll my own elements) Mar 26 01:07:24 AnOutsider: I wonder if Yes/No is better than Save/Restore for those toggles for space reasons? Mar 26 01:07:27 could save soem space by reducing the toggle to ON/OFF instead of full words Mar 26 01:07:30 L( Mar 26 01:07:32 :)* Mar 26 01:07:55 let's go with ON/OFF then Mar 26 01:08:21 just like in Preware :-) Mar 26 01:08:44 the other idea would be to align the toggle with the bottom row (which is just the app id right now) Mar 26 01:09:00 we shrink the text of that, and if it gets truncated, not as much of a loss Mar 26 01:09:09 also shrink the text size of app name, it's huge as is Mar 26 01:09:41 AnOutsider: yeah, toggle on bottom row is good, once we have app names. Mar 26 01:13:02 * rwhitby leaves that to the UI guys, while I think about how to get the app name. Mar 26 01:14:00 the security model of webos is ... interesting... Mar 26 01:14:10 I'll do the rewrite of the C service on the weekend too. Need to bring it in line with how I did the C ipkgservice, so it's faster and doesn't leak memory. Mar 26 01:14:41 dthought: there's a bright line of security at the end of the official app catalog. outside of that bright line, there is no security. Mar 26 01:15:15 rwhitby: yeah... what i want to do is a birthday list (resembling happydays from palmos) Mar 26 01:15:35 (well, what I mean is that a rogue webOS app installed using palm-install can get around all the security measures) Mar 26 01:15:41 there is a simple birthday app in the preware catalog... Mar 26 01:15:44 rwhitby: correct. Mar 26 01:16:03 that birthday app has a application id, that statrs with "com.palm" Mar 26 01:16:08 some might consider Preware itself to be a rogue app which gets around all the security measures :) Mar 26 01:16:24 rwhitby: it is, isn't it... (@ preware) Mar 26 01:16:40 boosh Mar 26 01:16:59 with com.palm at the beginning of your appid, you can access "internal" service methods Mar 26 01:17:21 rwhitby, so looks like if you use the p7zip-full under ubuntu and use 7z X PDKEXE, you get the extracted full version Mar 26 01:17:28 I'm gonna look and see if that stuff is valid Mar 26 01:17:46 (such as com.palm.contacts/list) Mar 26 01:20:09 gaffo_home: can you script that? Mar 26 01:20:12 rwhitby, so the PDK includes a bunch of SDL headers and opengles headers, do we want those OVER the SDL headers that the WIDK is currently using, which I am assuming are from source? Mar 26 01:20:30 rwhitby, yes, if I add the 7zip as a dependency to the WIDK like git and whatnot Mar 26 01:20:45 gaffo_home: in general, I think we want the official headers that match the libraries on the device. Mar 26 01:21:01 where we can't get official headers, we provide them from source Mar 26 01:21:27 * dtzWill is curious what/any differences there are between the two Mar 26 01:21:27 gaffo_home: see /msg for git access Mar 26 01:21:33 (other than, pdl, etc) Mar 26 01:21:43 dtzWill: pdl is a separate library Mar 26 01:22:02 rwhitby: oh pdl libraries aren't shipped with the pdk stuff? whoopsy Mar 26 01:22:19 *pdl headers Mar 26 01:22:20 anyway, kk Mar 26 01:24:31 rwhitby, so should I take the SDL build outta there if it's all provided by the PDK? Mar 26 01:24:44 if I get it working that is :) Mar 26 01:25:55 haha reason that palm didn't provide pdk for linux: they knew we would do it for them :D Mar 26 01:28:48 dtzWill: that's always been my assumption Mar 26 01:29:19 rwhitby, cool, the extracted one does have the thing I'm looking for :) Mar 26 01:29:21 gaffo_home: yeah, if it completely replaces it. note that we potentially build for armv7, armv6 and i686. Mar 26 01:30:05 definitely want to be able to test WIDK stuff on the emulator wherever possible Mar 26 01:30:23 which is which? Mar 26 01:30:32 686 is the emulator, right? Mar 26 01:30:35 arm7 pre Mar 26 01:31:13 is arm6 the pixi? Mar 26 01:32:42 gaffo_home: yep Mar 26 01:33:34 so the WIDK instructions only have you build for the pre, but the thing will work for all. hrm. I'll have to see how that works. Mar 26 01:33:49 gaffo_home: in most cases, we build for armv5 and use for both pixi and pre Mar 26 01:34:17 gaffo_home: it's not fully fleshed out yet, but the architecture is meant to support that. Mar 26 01:34:18 aah, so that arm-2007q3 is arm5? Mar 26 01:34:28 hrm Mar 26 01:34:31 well, depends on what flags you give it. Mar 26 01:34:34 kk Mar 26 01:34:43 well, the PDK is supposed to be able to build for both the pre and the pixi Mar 26 01:34:47 gaffo_home: the thing missing for i686 is the rootfs extraction from the emulator Mar 26 01:35:14 and we'd not be able to do any of the PDL stuff for the emulator until palm supports it Mar 26 01:35:28 right, but the WIDK is not just for games. Mar 26 01:35:33 which they say they're going to Mar 26 01:35:40 true Mar 26 01:36:05 for example, we'd like to be able to use the WIDK to build wIRCd for Pre, Pixi and emulator Mar 26 01:36:14 but I'm just looking at the 3 libs, GLES(v2), SDL, and PDL which are provided by the PDK Mar 26 01:36:17 at the moment Mar 26 01:36:25 (and eventually submit wIRC to the app catalog) Mar 26 01:36:44 :) Mar 26 01:37:00 (since it doesn't need root for anything, it should be able to be accepted) Mar 26 01:37:07 SDL can be built for the emulator as can GLES Mar 26 01:37:20 but PDL can't, since the source doesn't exist Mar 26 01:37:28 and the Palm extensions to SDL can't either Mar 26 01:37:46 gaffo_home: if we have headers and libs we don't need source for Palm stuff Mar 26 01:38:03 we can still build stuff that uses it Mar 26 01:38:18 rwhitby, true, but we don't have the i686 for the emulator for the palm stuff Mar 26 01:38:42 so if we use the palm stuff for everything, we'd have to wait until palm supported the emulator via the PDK to get those .so's Mar 26 01:39:09 but if we use the PDK for the pixi and pre in the emulator, then we can cut a bunch of compile time out and have full support. Mar 26 01:39:29 or keep SDL in but only for the emulator. haven't looked at the architecture, not sure if it's supported. Mar 26 01:40:19 gaffo_home: we have to use the palm stuff for the libraries that palm supplies Mar 26 01:41:30 kk, but I'm trying to get this straight Mar 26 01:41:39 you said to try and keep support for the emulator Mar 26 01:42:02 but palm (if I get the PDK extract working) is supplying the headers and libs for GLES , GLESv2, SDL, and PDL Mar 26 01:42:07 for the pixi and the pre Mar 26 01:42:38 right, and we should be able to extract the i686 libs from the SDK Mar 26 01:43:04 and merge them with the headers and libs from the PDK Mar 26 01:43:16 the SDK has those libs? Mar 26 01:44:07 okay, so I'm not gonna work on the SDK part of it. so should I just do as a last step, extract the PDK over the top of everything. or should I prune GLES and SDL from the wIDK build and then do the pdk extract? Mar 26 01:44:20 and 'shaft' the emulator in the 2nd situation. Mar 26 01:45:02 gaffo_home: I think 'shafting' the emulator for SDL/etc stuff is ok until we work out how to extract from SDK. Mar 26 01:45:18 kk, that makes that easier for me :) Mar 26 01:45:34 as people work on things like this, do they typically work up a wiki page for the process? Mar 26 01:45:48 gaffo_home: that's preferred :_) Mar 26 01:45:57 s/:_)/:-)/ Mar 26 01:46:30 can I just start makind wiki pages or do I need authorization? Mar 26 01:46:36 gaffo_home: just go for it Mar 26 01:47:01 anyone who want to contribute already has the authorization in my view Mar 26 01:47:44 Now, I wonder what the easiest way is for a script to get an application name and version from an appid. Mar 26 01:48:42 ah, scratch that. I need the app name irrespective of whether it's installed or not. will need to hard-code it into each script Mar 26 01:49:00 I guess that solves the symlink hassle to - no more symlinks Mar 26 01:49:58 rwhitby, fyi, the PDK has a bunch of palm packaged apps like an ssh server inside of it Mar 26 01:50:48 rwhitby, like I think the remote debugger Mar 26 01:50:53 yep Mar 26 01:51:17 gaffo_home: unpack the whole thing somewhere in the directory structure, and leave it around after copying the libs to the staging area Mar 26 01:51:25 (like we do for rootfs) Mar 26 01:51:28 wildo Mar 26 01:57:54 rwhitby, here's the page Ive started, it's linked from the bottom of the WIDK as an 'in process enhancements' Mar 26 01:57:55 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Extracting_the_PDK_on_Linux Mar 26 01:58:52 gaffo_home: thx Mar 26 02:10:35 AnOutsider: ping Mar 26 02:12:38 how does the sb2 environment map into the real machine. I'm trying to confirm that these libs will work and having issues finding them Mar 26 02:12:55 in the real (non-sb2) os Mar 26 02:13:33 gaffo_home: they will be in the staging/armv7/usr/lib directory, and will appear in sb2 as /usr/local/lib/ Mar 26 02:14:03 gaffo_home: mappings are listed in /path/to/cross/compile/staging/mapping-armv7 if you wanna see them all--the most important one is what rwhitby mentioned above ^^^ Mar 26 02:14:51 cool Mar 26 02:14:53 thanks guys Mar 26 02:17:32 gaffo_home: what cross-compilation experience do you have previously? Mar 26 02:17:38 suck... so libSDL.so from the PDK refers to NApp_IsPlugin, which is in the PDK but is in the package for the dev stuff Mar 26 02:18:22 gaffo_home: yeah, so anyone using WIDK has to do the device install stuff? Mar 26 02:18:43 rwhitby, no, this is a compile thing Mar 26 02:19:06 so I can't compile an app without the compile environment having the napp stuff Mar 26 02:19:11 checking now if it's on the phone Mar 26 02:19:43 yep, libnapp.so is on my pre already without me installing the dev stuff Mar 26 02:19:45 gaffo_home: ah, we need to update to the rootfs from 1.4.0 then Mar 26 02:19:57 I think we're still at 1.3.5 Mar 26 02:20:06 well, I definitely am :) Mar 26 02:20:30 but that begs the question, do we need the PDK for anything except the headers? Mar 26 02:20:54 it looks like the pre has up2date libs, so webos-doctor should as well, right? Mar 26 02:21:34 gaffo_home: yes, that should be the case Mar 26 02:21:49 hrm. so I'm off to find the correct url for the doctor then :) Mar 26 02:22:00 gaffo_home: it's on the wiki webos doctor versions Mar 26 02:22:09 what's the difference beetween the p100eww and the 200eew? Mar 26 02:22:17 pre and pixi Mar 26 02:22:30 pixi has changed model number twice Mar 26 02:23:58 I'm guessing I want the sprint ones? Mar 26 02:24:09 and I should leave the SDK alone? Mar 26 02:26:42 rwhitby, so if I move SDL out, should I move it to nonworking or to an 'obsolete' directory? Mar 26 02:26:58 gaffo_home: obsolete sounds good Mar 26 02:29:15 http://webos.pastebin.com/LWX8taRH is what I changed on the makefile for the new webos Mar 26 02:30:28 rwhitby, so does the script just go through everything in packages and build them? Mar 26 02:32:10 gaffo_home: yeah, that's the unwieldy bit :) Mar 26 02:32:17 :) Mar 26 02:32:30 gaffo_home: makefile change looks good. have you sent me your key? Mar 26 02:32:32 so I see for pdl and napp it just builds some staging things Mar 26 02:32:38 yes, I emailed you the key Mar 26 02:32:52 should I just push my changes to a branch on the repo? Mar 26 02:32:55 and work from there? Mar 26 02:33:22 how long ago did you send the key - I don't see it. Mar 26 02:33:36 about an hour ago Mar 26 02:33:46 use a branch if you like, but for a required change like this one we often just use master Mar 26 02:34:01 not sure if it works tho :) Mar 26 02:37:20 so this change I should just push to master? but the other stuff to a branch I'm guessing? Mar 26 02:39:27 gaffo_home: key added Mar 26 02:39:41 cool Mar 26 02:40:04 you call, I'll assume you know what you're doing, and can fix what you don't ;) Mar 26 02:40:46 rwhitby, it's like a 5 hour turnaround though :) Mar 26 02:42:33 so I'm putting the old sdl stuff in obsolete and just left one libsdl that looks like libnapp in the packages folder Mar 26 02:43:04 http://webos.pastebin.com/yUpKaShJ Mar 26 02:44:49 not really sure where the extract of the PDK should fit in the process. Mar 26 02:45:50 but it doesn't look like any of the other packages depend on libsdl Mar 26 02:46:23 gaffo_home: top-level Makefile for the PDK extract, just like the rootfs from doctor Mar 26 02:46:37 then a stage-pdk.mk perhaps Mar 26 02:46:53 I somewhat suck at make :) Mar 26 02:47:27 I'm guiessing the stage target it to make stuff and clobber is cleanup? Mar 26 02:48:10 yep Mar 26 02:49:46 damnit, git is using the wrong email address for me Mar 26 02:49:53 it's user.email, right? Mar 26 02:51:05 gaffo_home: yep. git config [--global] user.email Mar 26 02:51:37 had to rebase -i Mar 26 02:51:43 and ammend --author Mar 26 02:52:08 gaffo_home: just as long as you didn't push yet :) Mar 26 02:52:24 yep Mar 26 02:52:26 didn't Mar 26 02:52:36 well, you can always do a -f if youre quick :) Mar 26 02:56:23 gaffo_home: it's blocked on this repo, regardless if someone pulled (i think?) Mar 26 02:56:36 hrm. Mar 26 02:56:40 or maybe i just wasn't quick enough :D Mar 26 02:56:50 well, gotta figure out the url for push Mar 26 02:57:11 dtwWill, actually, if you're slow, you just corrupt someone else's pull and they can't rebase Mar 26 02:58:01 gaffo_home: yes, but i'm saying the server rejects that kind of push **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Mar 26 02:59:57 2010