**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Apr 02 02:59:56 2010
Apr 02 03:00:26 * hozer opens up a novaterm
Apr 02 03:00:50 <oil> or that
Apr 02 03:08:41 <flare576> is dBsooner around?
Apr 02 03:47:31 <zsoc> ugh, sanity is lacking
Apr 02 03:55:00 <jaymtee_> hehe... the real question is.... do I have another beer or just go to bed?
Apr 02 03:55:17 <sampson> have a beer while you sleep
Apr 02 03:55:20 <sampson> 2 birds with one stone
Apr 02 03:55:34 <jaymtee_> sounds messy and not as enjoyable
Apr 02 03:56:04 <ka6sox> very messy
Apr 02 03:56:35 <jaymtee_> well... battery life still is horrible after the doctor... but at least my phone isn't going offline
Apr 02 03:57:15 <flare576> jaymtee_: you don't want your pre going online, all it does is download porn and stream music :/
Apr 02 03:59:16 <jaymtee_> flare576, it would be nice if it received phone calls though
Apr 02 03:59:47 <jaymtee_> later all... time for a beer or bed or both
Apr 02 03:59:50 <flare576> holy crap it's a phone, too?!
Apr 02 03:59:54 <jaymtee_> hehe
Apr 02 03:59:54 <flare576> night man :)
Apr 02 04:00:06 <zsoc> I don't understand. My battery life is so reasonable.
Apr 02 04:00:11 <zsoc> Why do people complain so much.
Apr 02 04:00:41 <bpadalino> i think when keeping signed into gtalk and/or other services, the battery drains a bit quicker
Apr 02 04:00:44 <flare576> maybe their's isn't reasonable?
Apr 02 04:01:06 <flare576> 'cause their pre is downloading... nah, n/m
Apr 02 04:01:11 <zsoc> I have gtalk and yim generally signed in
Apr 02 04:02:12 <bpadalino> hrm .. good question, then .. maybe they listen to a lot of music ?
Apr 02 04:03:58 * zsoc shrugs
Apr 02 04:04:02 <zsoc> maybe I have a touchstone at work
Apr 02 04:04:56 <flare576> I stack 10 touchstones together to ensure optimum charging.... that's how it works, right?
Apr 02 04:16:52 <flare576> so, a while ago I found a post about where PreWare keeps the files it uses to load package info for the purposes of deleting one that is "too big" ... I can't find the post back, so I'll just ask "where does preware keep the files it uses to parse?"
Apr 02 04:18:37 <flare576>  /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/lib/ipkg/lists
Apr 02 04:19:01 <zsoc> Is this like one of those things where we ask questions and answer them?
Apr 02 04:19:37 * dtzWill waits for zsoc to answer his question
Apr 02 04:19:49 <dtzWill> s/his/his own/
Apr 02 04:20:21 <flare576> this is one of those things where after 10 minutes of searching I ask, click the next link, and find the answer :/
Apr 02 04:21:05 <flare576> but.... that directory is empty....
Apr 02 04:21:17 <zsoc> flare576: 'update feeds'
Apr 02 04:22:02 <flare576> I currently have it setup to update on every load
Apr 02 04:22:22 <zsoc> ... so?
Apr 02 04:22:40 <flare576> so, when it launches, it downloads, tries to parse, and hangs
Apr 02 04:23:03 <flare576> unless i'm misunderstanding your 2 word answer ;)
Apr 02 04:23:19 <zsoc> flare576: ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps update
Apr 02 04:24:01 <Robi_> wooh the pre flies now
Apr 02 04:24:32 <flare576> ah, ok.... I guess I assumed Preware would be taking care of that
Apr 02 04:24:39 <Kyusaku> seems kinda heavy to fly
Apr 02 04:24:53 <flare576> he uses jets
Apr 02 04:25:13 <zsoc> flare576: it does
Apr 02 04:25:18 <zsoc> flare576: i'm trying to help you troubleshoot
Apr 02 04:25:26 <zsoc> flare576: honestly, the standard answer is "reinstall ipkgservice"
Apr 02 04:25:39 <flare576> did that
Apr 02 04:25:43 <flare576> along with preware
Apr 02 04:25:48 <flare576> still choking
Apr 02 04:26:05 <zsoc> did you run that command?
Apr 02 04:26:09 <flare576> yup
Apr 02 04:26:27 <flare576> and it's interesting, I re-load preware, and now that directory is empty again
Apr 02 04:26:42 <flare576> something musta got screwed up when I reinstalled it
Apr 02 04:28:45 * zsoc ponders
Apr 02 04:28:49 <zsoc> flare576: you're installing it wrong? :D
Apr 02 04:28:56 <zsoc> flare576: try the bootstrap
Apr 02 04:29:15 <zsoc> or you've found a very interesting bug, i haven't decided
Apr 02 04:29:17 <flare576> I will after this attempt @ WOQI
Apr 02 04:29:26 <flare576> zsoc: it's PEBKAC
Apr 02 04:30:12 <flare576> all started when I decided I'd rather try to manually tear out  patch instead of "wasting time runing EPR"
Apr 02 04:31:08 <flare576> note to other users: it takes less time to re-install 100 patches than it does to manually fix 1.
Apr 02 04:31:51 <zsoc> hehe
Apr 02 04:32:36 <flare576> while I'm doin all this I should ask: will the IPKG log show me which files a patch is tryin to touch if it fails?
Apr 02 04:32:44 <flare576> I need to know which files to restore for that patch
Apr 02 04:32:49 <zsoc> flare576: of course yes
Apr 02 04:32:52 <flare576> cool beans
Apr 02 04:46:34 <cryptk> does anyone know of a place that I can download novacom without grabbing the whole doctor?
Apr 02 04:46:45 <cryptk> I need novacom and I am in a hotel room with really slow internet...
Apr 02 04:47:00 <cryptk> so the doctor download is taking FOREVER
Apr 02 04:47:07 <flare576> aye :(
Apr 02 04:47:11 <Kyusaku> there might be a link on the wiki
Apr 02 04:47:21 <Kyusaku> windows novacom?
Apr 02 04:48:05 <cryptk> yeah
Apr 02 04:48:09 <cryptk> windows novacom
Apr 02 04:48:16 <cryptk> (work laptop is windows)
Apr 02 04:48:22 <cryptk> I looked on the wiki, didn't see it
Apr 02 04:48:46 <castle`> i thought you could dl novacoma at developer.palm.com
Apr 02 04:49:38 <cryptk> let me look
Apr 02 04:50:10 <castle`> when you go to the sdk link you have to dl the sdk and novacom seperate, or so i remember it that way
Apr 02 04:52:05 <cryptk> nope, that is how it is for linux... not windows though
Apr 02 04:52:21 <castle`> doh
Apr 02 04:53:11 <cryptk> Kyusaku: you rule!
Apr 02 04:53:27 <Kyusaku> <.<
Apr 02 04:53:29 <Kyusaku> >.>
Apr 02 04:53:36 <Kyusaku> for what? =)
Apr 02 05:20:26 <flare576> this is really odd... as preware is loading all the packages... it seems like Java is crashing.  My "bars" at the top for cell strength disapear.
Apr 02 05:20:34 <flare576> I'm working over wifi
Apr 02 05:21:15 <castle`> believe someone posted a similar issue with preware via the precentral forums
Apr 02 05:21:56 <flare576> well, I'm done fighting with things tonight I think.  I don't know if it's preware or the patch I can't seem to uninstall/update or what.
Apr 02 05:22:54 <flare576> oh jesus, too many zsoc s
Apr 02 05:23:42 <zombie_zsoc> fffttgggb..bn.
Apr 02 05:23:47 <flare576> 'tis the season
Apr 02 05:23:58 <zombie_zsoc> YJMHNFTFRMB.ILFTDXS-fuk
Apr 02 05:24:17 <zombie_zsoc> you ilijrd vhts%bs
Apr 02 05:24:20 <flare576> I think... I think he wants to be friends!
Apr 02 05:24:27 <flare576> I think he wants hugs!
Apr 02 05:24:40 <zombie_zsoc> ximye xseic lijgfex hyfs!
Apr 02 05:25:34 <zombie_zsoc> ijnh prdry mych adglerep
Apr 02 05:26:01 <zombie_killer_hh> hehehehehe
Apr 02 05:26:09 <lingfish> lol
Apr 02 05:26:10 <zombie_zsoc> ig nird :1
Apr 02 05:26:38 <zombie_killer_hh> I don't speak retard
Apr 02 05:26:49 <zombie_zsoc> iyxg %'
Apr 02 05:27:19 <zombie_zsoc> unp&yiebtbv obe hand tupubf
Apr 02 05:27:26 <zombie_killer_hh> ow
Apr 02 05:27:33 <zombie_killer_hh> brain hurts
Apr 02 05:27:51 <zombie_zsoc> xombir xsov wins
Apr 02 05:28:05 <flare576> so, zombie_zsoc, I got scared that if I put the stock files back in place and some other patch had updated them as well.... I had no idea what would happen
Apr 02 05:28:15 <zombie_killer_hh> lies zombie, lies
Apr 02 05:28:22 * zombie_killer_hh kills zombie... again
Apr 02 05:28:39 <zombie_zsoc> flare576: 4ivide vt zetio
Apr 02 05:28:54 * flare576 nods, smiles, and steps away
Apr 02 05:29:34 <zsoc8> fjfuejt!!!!
Apr 02 05:29:39 <zombie_zsoc> j(!)!!
Apr 02 05:29:50 <zsoc8> zz zz zz!!!
Apr 02 05:29:59 <zombie_zsoc> jyn.podtwt!
Apr 02 05:30:15 <zsoc8> random crypto junk here!
Apr 02 05:30:24 <zombie_zsoc> ANFRY XSIC
Apr 02 05:30:32 <zombie_zsoc> &erRRRRGGGGGHJ
Apr 02 05:30:45 <zsoc8> FTP HTTP URL ISC BIND!
Apr 02 05:31:15 <lingfish> That was fun.
Apr 02 05:31:27 <lingfish> Am I missing something, or is there still not a way to save favourite channels?
Apr 02 05:31:27 <zombie_zsoc> arghhhhh
Apr 02 05:33:06 <flare576> so, question because it's looking inevitable: does that new save thing I saw from webos-internals backup "linked accounts" and stuff?
Apr 02 05:33:20 <flare576> or is it just cookies and stats and info for apps?
Apr 02 05:34:31 <rwhitby> flare576: http://bit.ly/saverestore
Apr 02 05:34:55 <flare576> thank you rwhitby
Apr 02 05:36:34 <flare576> ok, so, "No" to actual account-related save/restore looks like... Is there any solution for that?  I don't even remember who I went in a linked accounts for anymore.
Apr 02 05:39:45 <zsoc|bed> palm has a pretty hgood siiolution fotr that
Apr 02 05:40:46 <flare576> they must have made improvements since the last time I had to use it then....
Apr 02 05:43:09 <flare576> alright, last question for the night, rwhitby, does EPR require preware to know that a patch is installed?  To explain: in order to try and manually remove a troublesome patch I did a ipkg remove on the package and then realized that other patches may have touched the files in question so I didn't want to roll them back to stock and cause more problems.
Apr 02 05:45:03 <flare576> so now the files are still in a bad state, and preware can't install, and I don't know what will happen if I run EPR and Preware can't determine which files have been patched.
Apr 02 05:45:23 <zsoc|bed> flare576: uninstall any patches in the same catagory
Apr 02 05:45:31 <zsoc|bed> replace original files
Apr 02 05:45:34 <flare576> ohhhhh
Apr 02 05:45:36 <flare576> duh
Apr 02 05:46:04 <flare576> there are some files outside of just that category, like bar
Apr 02 05:46:34 <flare576> but, I've always got Doctor to fall back on
Apr 02 05:47:32 <zsoc|bed> let the record show, I came up with zombie zsoc while asleep
Apr 02 05:48:25 <flare576> also noted: you're chatting to us from bed
Apr 02 05:48:47 <zsoc|bed> that's pretty normal for me. but while asleep was a new one
Apr 02 05:49:29 <flare576> prolly shouldn't keep a keyboard in bed with you ;)
Apr 02 05:49:35 <zsoc|bed> .... wirc
Apr 02 05:50:00 <flare576> you're screwed
Apr 02 05:50:15 <lingfish> he wishes.
Apr 02 05:50:29 <flare576> sick burn
Apr 02 05:50:35 <zsoc|bed> lingfish_: my wife is quite passed out atm
Apr 02 05:50:38 <ka6sox> I think my wife would probably draw the line with me bringing a PDA to bed.
Apr 02 05:50:45 <lingfish> zsoc|bed: exactly.
Apr 02 05:50:46 <lingfish> heh.
Apr 02 05:51:00 <lingfish> Ugh.. I'm wrestling with Nexenta and Sol on a DL360 (:
Apr 02 05:51:01 <flare576> it does have roleplaying (Games)
Apr 02 05:51:02 <lingfish> :(
Apr 02 05:51:44 <zsoc|bed> s/passed out/wore out/
Apr 02 05:51:44 <infobot> zsoc|bed meant: lingfish_: my wife is quite wore out atm
Apr 02 05:51:54 <lingfish> hahahah
Apr 02 05:51:54 <ka6sox> lingfish are you still stuck?
Apr 02 05:52:01 <zsoc|bed> WHOOPS INAPPROPRIATE!
Apr 02 05:52:12 <lingfish> ka6sox: haven't tried in hours... want me to again?  Did you see someone else had the issue too/
Apr 02 05:52:17 <ka6sox> WTMI
Apr 02 05:52:38 <zsoc|bed> it's lings fault :(
Apr 02 05:52:40 <lingfish> wtf is that acronym ;/
Apr 02 05:52:48 <lingfish> zsoc|bed: I bring out the best in people :D
Apr 02 05:53:04 <lingfish> Why do you think Rod is such a great coder?
Apr 02 05:53:16 <ka6sox> iirc rwhitby said there was a problem with the size of a database.
Apr 02 05:53:19 <lingfish> Actually, I'm not sure why I said that, and it sounded so, so wrong.
Apr 02 05:53:32 <lingfish> ka6sox: ah, well, that might do it.
Apr 02 05:53:49 <zsoc|bed> lingfish_: I just picture him checking in on the chat everyonce in awhile and shaking his head
Apr 02 05:53:54 <zsoc|bed> and I feel sad inside :(
Apr 02 05:53:58 <ka6sox> it was too large to parse
Apr 02 05:54:08 <zsoc|bed> that's what she said!
Apr 02 05:54:15 <zsoc|bed> :/
Apr 02 05:54:17 <lingfish> zsoc|bed: hahahahaa ditto
Apr 02 05:54:18 <lingfish> HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
Apr 02 05:54:26 <lingfish> zsoc|bed is on fiyah.
Apr 02 05:54:51 <ka6sox> lingfish, I remember seeing that around the time that 1.4.0 came out.
Apr 02 05:55:08 <lingfish> ka6sox: who fixed it, if anyone?
Apr 02 05:55:15 <lingfish> Something I need to do?
Apr 02 05:55:16 <zsoc|bed> ipkgservice deletes any feed data over 10mb
Apr 02 05:55:54 <ka6sox> I think that was the fix I remember.
Apr 02 05:56:00 <zsoc|bed> lingfish_: stop having big feed data
Apr 02 05:56:10 <ka6sox> nothing should be that big (yet)
Apr 02 05:56:19 <lingfish> Issa not mah fault!
Apr 02 05:56:26 <lingfish> Blame Palm's feed ;P
Apr 02 05:56:32 <entity-> that midnight mischief app is fucking garbage
Apr 02 05:56:37 <zsoc|bed> ah, that might come close
Apr 02 05:56:43 <entity-> you can't even set shit as wallpaper
Apr 02 05:56:43 <zsoc|bed> entity-: language son
Apr 02 05:56:50 <zsoc|bed> LANGUAGE SON
Apr 02 05:57:03 <entity-> lol sorry pops
Apr 02 05:59:56 <lingfish> Well that killed that convo then.  Nice work entity- .
Apr 02 06:00:23 * Kyusaku waves goodbye to 800MHz patch
Apr 02 06:00:23 <rwhitby> palm-catalog Packages file is only 4.2MB
Apr 02 06:00:32 <flare576> anyone else get a lot of freezing when trying to do a device restart?
Apr 02 06:00:34 <lingfish> hrm.
Apr 02 06:00:43 <zsoc|bed> Kyusaku: ?
Apr 02 06:00:47 <flare576> seems like 50% of the time I lock at the spinning orb
Apr 02 06:01:03 <Kyusaku> the issue that's happening with palm-catalog is different than that what happened around 1.4.0 release
Apr 02 06:01:15 <Kyusaku> zsoc: I want to safely update to 1.4.1.1
Apr 02 06:01:46 <zsoc|bed> Kyusaku: it's safe to do it without uninstalling. kernel gets overwritten
Apr 02 06:02:04 <Kyusaku> since my pre actually started bugging me about updating
Apr 02 06:02:31 <Kyusaku> zsoc: maybe but rather be completely safe and remove any excess junk the update might miss
Apr 02 06:03:19 <zsoc|bed> Kyusaku: it can't miss it. the whole kernel changes
Apr 02 06:04:16 <Kyusaku> why does uninstall touch Pmnetconfigmanager
Apr 02 06:04:39 <zsoc|bed> Kyusaku: that is the secret of the marco
Apr 02 06:05:04 <lingfish> polo?
Apr 02 06:06:40 <rwhitby> ok, let's have a look at this palm-catalog Packages file
Apr 02 06:06:57 <Kyusaku> so I'm getting a test build of Japanese IME this weekend according to justinput developer
Apr 02 06:07:05 <lingfish> rwhitby: let's do you include moi?
Apr 02 06:07:58 <lingfish> er
Apr 02 06:08:11 <lingfish> s/let's/By "let's"/
Apr 02 06:08:31 <rwhitby> first, 'dbus-util --capture ipkgservice' ....
Apr 02 06:09:29 <rwhitby> ok, ipkgservice gives it to Preware perfectly.
Apr 02 06:10:05 <rwhitby> and /var/log/messages says:
Apr 02 06:10:09 <rwhitby> 2010-04-02T06:09:19.461334Z [51540] palm-webos-device user.warning LunaSysMgr: Script timeout detected
Apr 02 06:10:10 <rwhitby> 2010-04-02T06:09:19.462036Z [51540] palm-webos-device user.warning LunaSysMgr: Script execution terminated
Apr 02 06:10:50 <lingfish> rut roh
Apr 02 06:11:34 <geist> TERMINATED
Apr 02 06:11:50 <lingfish> poltah!
Apr 02 06:14:03 <rwhitby> I was just thinking the other day that we needed to split the data returned from ipkgservice to preware into the bits needed for showing the package lists, and separately the bits for the package detailed view
Apr 02 06:16:57 <rwhitby> hmm - interesting thing in the logs:
Apr 02 06:17:00 <rwhitby> 2010-04-02T06:15:25.427307Z [51906] palm-webos-device user.debug BrowserServer: Just created a mini Flash plugin
Apr 02 06:17:01 <rwhitby> 2010-04-02T06:15:25.547149Z [51906] palm-webos-device user.debug BrowserServer: New stream url:http://cdn.insights.gravity.com/moth_v1.swf?1, mime:application/x-shockwave-flash
Apr 02 06:17:04 <rwhitby> 2010-04-02T06:15:25.561920Z [51906] palm-webos-device user.debug BrowserServer: Stream downloaded successfully: http://cdn.insights.gravity.com/moth_v1.swf?1
Apr 02 06:22:16 <lingfish> hrm
Apr 02 06:23:11 <oil> rwhitby, and have it only load the details when the view scene pops up?
Apr 02 06:30:31 <rwhitby> oil: actually, in InfoResponse, we should to parsePackages on each bit as it comes in, splitting it up as we go.  At the moment, this.rawData has 4MB of data, then it passes it to parsePackages, where it's .split into a 4MB array of lines, before calling loadPackage on each.
Apr 02 06:31:16 <oil> but can we be sure each grouping of data is a complete packages info?
Apr 02 06:31:49 <rwhitby> look for empty lines, save the extra at the end for the next payload
Apr 02 06:32:25 <oil> so parse each as it sees it has the whole thing
Apr 02 06:32:35 <hucksy> mh, I'm confused, in which case terminal/luna still crashes in the new version?
Apr 02 06:32:53 <rwhitby> oil: 4KB payload chunks should have a number of packages in each
Apr 02 06:33:15 <rwhitby> hucksy: open a menu item, like Non-Obvious Keys, then try and close it
Apr 02 06:33:46 <rwhitby> oil: just search backwards from the end of the string for '\n\n'
Apr 02 06:34:01 <rwhitby> and save the remainder for the next chnk
Apr 02 06:34:08 <pullingj> is the palm-catalog feed causing problems in preware for anyone else?
Apr 02 06:34:27 <rwhitby> pullingj: you should follow @webosinternals on Twitter
Apr 02 06:34:32 <hucksy> oh, k
Apr 02 06:34:58 <pullingj> rwhitby: oh, I'll check there thanks
Apr 02 06:36:27 <rwhitby> oil: are you in a position to look at that?
Apr 02 06:36:40 <oil> im about to hit the sack
Apr 02 06:36:58 <keith> rwhitby: so who got the bounty? i'd like to thank them personally if theyre on irc :) (for terminal)
Apr 02 06:37:00 <oil> ill look tomorrow evening or this weekend
Apr 02 06:37:00 <rwhitby> ok, just tell me how to find the last \n\n in a string
Apr 02 06:37:23 <rwhitby> keith: you should follow @webosinternals on Twitter too
Apr 02 06:37:27 <keith> i do
Apr 02 06:37:37 <keith> but i follow alot of folks, so i missed it
Apr 02 06:37:44 <keith> today was a super busy workday
Apr 02 06:37:53 <rwhitby> http://twitter.com/webosinternals/status/11465964751
Apr 02 06:37:53 <keith> (i'm @keithah on twitter)
Apr 02 06:38:14 <oil> i believe it was dtzWill
Apr 02 06:38:15 <keith> oh shit, i'm not following webosinternals
Apr 02 06:38:16 <keith> weak
Apr 02 06:38:18 <oil> i could be wrong though
Apr 02 06:38:20 <keith> fixed.
Apr 02 06:38:21 <pullingj> rwhitby: so,the workaround is disable palm-catalog feed for now?
Apr 02 06:38:48 <rwhitby> keith: bpadalino, egaudet and dtzWill have each fixed a bug, but it still crashes if you open a menu item
Apr 02 06:39:01 <pullingj> I actually had it load one time with all other feeds disabled after deleting its cache file
Apr 02 06:39:17 <hucksy> but better then terminal, which kills luna :)
Apr 02 06:39:25 <keith> nice
Apr 02 06:39:28 <hucksy> aeh
Apr 02 06:39:29 <rwhitby> oil: how to find the last \n\n in a string?
Apr 02 06:39:30 <hucksy> terminus
Apr 02 06:39:39 <oil> rwhitby, idk
Apr 02 06:39:45 <dtzWill> hucksy: xterm :D
Apr 02 06:39:47 <rwhitby> ok, I'll search.
Apr 02 06:39:52 <lingfish> rwhitby: as in regex?
Apr 02 06:40:02 <oil> yeah, you could do that
Apr 02 06:40:13 * rwhitby rolls up the sleeves and dives into InfoResponse ...
Apr 02 06:40:21 <lingfish> rwhitby: is that what you mean?
Apr 02 06:40:32 <rwhitby> lingfish: like strchr
Apr 02 06:40:40 <lingfish> ugh
Apr 02 06:40:56 <lingfish>        The strrchr() function returns a pointer to the last occurrence of  the
Apr 02 06:40:59 <hucksy> dtzWill: hehe, i need multitasking even when i use a shell ;)
Apr 02 06:40:59 <lingfish>        character c in the string s.
Apr 02 06:40:59 <lingfish> :)
Apr 02 06:41:31 <dtzWill> hucksy: it's in it's own card? you can't multitask still?
Apr 02 06:41:49 <keith> dtzWill: thanks for it. i woulda loved to irc from xterm, but didnt know howto set the bg color :)
Apr 02 06:41:57 <rwhitby> lingfish: yeah, I really need strrstr
Apr 02 06:42:05 <rwhitby> but in Javascript
Apr 02 06:42:15 <dtzWill> keith: yeah i don't ship a xrdb binary/there's no support for Xdefaults... yet :)
Apr 02 06:42:23 <oil> isn't there a .lastIndexOf() method?
Apr 02 06:42:35 <lingfish> Double ugh.
Apr 02 06:42:45 <keith> dtzWill: i was considering trying to recompile it before you guys got terminal working :D
Apr 02 06:43:04 <oil> then substr it
Apr 02 06:43:12 <dtzWill> keith: shipping xrdb wouldn't be hard at all, and adding it to an init script to look in say, /media/internals/.Xdefaults or something
Apr 02 06:43:24 <dtzWill> but so many things to do :):)
Apr 02 06:43:40 <rwhitby> oil: that'll do it.  so string.lastIndexOf("\n\n")
Apr 02 06:44:07 <oil> string.substr(0, string.lastIndexOf())
Apr 02 06:44:14 <oil> ("\n\n")
Apr 02 06:44:17 <oil> i mean
Apr 02 06:44:19 <oil> might work
Apr 02 06:44:20 <oil> lol
Apr 02 06:44:24 <lingfish> http://phpjs.org/functions/strrchr:546
Apr 02 06:45:00 <keith> dtzWill: yup, no longer needed for me. screen+irssi works great!
Apr 02 06:45:30 <oil> lingfish, that function just does lastIndexOf xD
Apr 02 06:45:45 <lingfish> *dum dedoooo*
Apr 02 06:45:46 <lingfish> heh
Apr 02 06:47:06 <oil> php.js is interesting though
Apr 02 06:48:13 <oil> rwhitby, i bet that makes it load more conistantly
Apr 02 06:48:17 <rwhitby> ok, looks like a 5 line fix
Apr 02 06:48:17 <oil> maybe faster
Apr 02 06:48:35 <rwhitby> oil: I'd expect faster due to smaller strings being handled
Apr 02 06:48:41 <oil> there is sometimes a pause when its parsing a larger feed
Apr 02 06:48:48 <lingfish> true
Apr 02 06:50:10 <oil> well, im hitting hte sack
Apr 02 06:50:12 <oil> later
Apr 02 06:50:32 <rwhitby> oil: : http://webos.pastebin.com/sZrrsabA
Apr 02 06:51:16 <rwhitby> maybe position+1 in the second substr, but an extra \n won't matter
Apr 02 06:51:26 <oil> yeah thats all i was thinking
Apr 02 06:51:30 <rwhitby> and saves needing to worry if \n\n was at the end of the string
Apr 02 06:51:49 <rwhitby> (dunno if javascript substr handles position > lenght
Apr 02 06:52:05 <oil> and on complete you will just send the remaining rawData?
Apr 02 06:52:16 <rwhitby> oil: yep, that doesn't change at all
Apr 02 06:52:19 <oil> yeah
Apr 02 06:52:28 <oil> looks like it will work in my mind xD
Apr 02 06:52:31 <oil> and im really leaving now
Apr 02 06:55:52 <rwhitby> seems to work
Apr 02 06:56:18 <hucksy> dtzWill: uhm, wasnt the xterm the thing where i must stop luna?
Apr 02 06:56:38 <rwhitby> hucksy: not any more
Apr 02 06:56:46 <hucksy> ooh
Apr 02 06:56:51 <rwhitby> that's xterm from 6 months ago
Apr 02 06:56:58 <hucksy> damn!
Apr 02 06:57:02 <hucksy> is it an app now?
Apr 02 06:57:11 <rwhitby> yep, in Preware testing feed
Apr 02 06:57:26 <hucksy> sweet
Apr 02 07:09:03 <rwhitby> ok, preware 0.9.32 in the testing feed now, please test and report
Apr 02 07:13:47 <rwhitby> gah: 2010-04-02T06:58:14.121826Z [462] palm-webos-device user.crit LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgrJS}: org.webosinternals.preware: Error: Error: Cannot set property 'innerHTML' of null, line undefined, file undefined, palmInitFramework338:2520
Apr 02 07:22:34 <rwhitby> updated 0.9.32 in testing feed
Apr 02 07:35:49 <hucksy> mh, testing/all or armv7?
Apr 02 07:36:36 <hucksy>  /all cant find xterm and dependencies problems (e.g. freetheter)
Apr 02 07:55:36 <rwhitby> ~testing-feed
Apr 02 07:55:37 <infobot> it has been said that testing-feed is a means of testing new WebOS Internals products, documented at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Testing_Feeds
Apr 02 07:58:17 <hucksy> yeah, dont realize that i have to add both ;)
Apr 02 07:58:19 <hucksy> works now
Apr 02 09:01:23 <hucksy> hehe
Apr 02 09:01:28 <hucksy> damn
Apr 02 09:01:44 <hucksy> updated before twitter ;)
Apr 02 09:08:23 <rwhitby> hucksy: 0.9.33 fixes it
Apr 02 09:09:12 <hucksy> great, thanks :)
Apr 02 09:28:26 <hucksy> rwhitby: maybe you should twitter that you need WebOsQuickinstall to update
Apr 02 09:31:51 <hucksy> bbl
Apr 02 11:06:19 <idontwan2know> So...I see a new Terminal Service Plugin...does this mean a working Terminal is around the corner?
Apr 02 11:07:55 <rwhitby> idontwan2know: it works except for the menus now
Apr 02 11:09:26 <idontwan2know> awesome!
Apr 02 11:21:10 <en0x> rwhitby, is this normal that when I updated preware it killed phone app and email app?
Apr 02 11:21:33 <en0x> always when I update something and it says installing/updating in preware my device becomes unrespobsive
Apr 02 11:21:37 <en0x> unresponsive
Apr 02 11:21:58 <en0x> and then it kills everything except system ui
Apr 02 11:35:01 <rwhitby> en0x: yes, that's the "if ($user == en0x)" test working perfectly.
Apr 02 11:35:39 <en0x> no I"m serious
Apr 02 11:36:06 <en0x> it my device was unresponsive and when it finished updating preware and closed itself it killed all other apps
Apr 02 11:37:15 <en0x> i may have to look at dbus output
Apr 02 11:37:32 <rwhitby> that's the 1.4 rescan issue
Apr 02 11:37:43 <rwhitby> sometimes a rescan causes all apps to close
Apr 02 11:38:43 <en0x> is palm aware of this?
Apr 02 11:43:32 <rwhitby> en0x: dunno, I've not been able to characterise it for a proper repeatable bug report.
Apr 02 11:44:15 <en0x> i see this thing happens randomly sometimes it kills everything sometimes not...
Apr 02 12:15:50 <rwhitby> so in other news, I should have a single-package preware with a C-language service ready for alpha testing sometime this weekend ...
Apr 02 12:16:44 <VincentLaw> nice
Apr 02 12:17:33 <VincentLaw> preware is like one of the most improved things when running the 800mhz patch, haha
Apr 02 12:17:41 <VincentLaw> loads the package information so much faster
Apr 02 12:34:09 <VincentLaw> anyone else's pre fail to reboot properly often?
Apr 02 12:34:19 <VincentLaw> mine likes to freeze up at the spinning circle as its shutting down
Apr 02 12:34:38 <VincentLaw> I can reset it using the ringer switch + power button option but it's still odd
Apr 02 12:42:56 <en0x> nope no issues with reboots
Apr 02 12:45:35 <VincentLaw> sucks to be me then
Apr 02 12:49:20 <rwhitby> excellent, the download stats in Preware Alpha are working nicely
Apr 02 12:53:54 <hucksy> VincentLaw: yep
Apr 02 12:54:17 <hucksy> same here, even before 1.4
Apr 02 12:54:52 <hucksy> it sucks because at the moment i often have dns issues
Apr 02 12:54:56 <hucksy> so i must reboot
Apr 02 12:55:03 <hucksy> and ... freeze
Apr 02 13:04:32 <rwhitby> ok, who is very brave and ready to test Preware Alpha
Apr 02 13:05:01 * hucksy .
Apr 02 13:05:22 <rwhitby> do you have the testing feed installed?
Apr 02 13:05:30 <hucksy> yes
Apr 02 13:06:00 <rwhitby> are you ready for Preware to possible stop working, requiring you to reinstall things if necessary?
Apr 02 13:06:35 <hucksy> yeah, i boot my second pre at the moment, its ok if i have to doctor it ;)
Apr 02 13:07:13 <rwhitby> ok, good
Apr 02 13:07:23 <rwhitby> first, remove Preware and the Package Manager Service
Apr 02 13:07:32 <rwhitby> actually, don't do that.
Apr 02 13:07:40 <rwhitby> let's try a more dangerous test first
Apr 02 13:07:51 <Lumiere> lol
Apr 02 13:07:55 <hucksy> ok :D
Apr 02 13:08:00 <hucksy> sounds good
Apr 02 13:08:08 <rwhitby> good, you've passed the first test already ;)
Apr 02 13:08:17 <hucksy> hehe
Apr 02 13:08:22 <rwhitby> ok, install Preware Alpha from the testing feed
Apr 02 13:08:35 <rwhitby> make sure you have a command line on the Pre ready for debug
Apr 02 13:08:46 <hucksy> ok, sec
Apr 02 13:13:17 <hucksy> done
Apr 02 13:14:30 <rwhitby> ps -ef | grep ipkgservie
Apr 02 13:14:32 <rwhitby> ps -ef | grep ipkgservice
Apr 02 13:14:55 * mjkjr|wirc wishes that Palm would have taken the random luna crashes seriously 
Apr 02 13:15:25 <en0x> mjkjr|wirc, i had it only once right after update and never seen it since
Apr 02 13:15:50 * mjkjr|wirc is happy Terminal is back though
Apr 02 13:15:54 <VincentLaw> rwhitby: I'll test the alpha for you tonight as well, but I gotta get going ATM. No time to mess with a terminal :p
Apr 02 13:16:07 <hucksy> rwhitby: http://webos.pastebin.com/ZpDV45SU
Apr 02 13:16:14 <mjkjr|wirc> I had one the night I updated and two yesterday
Apr 02 13:16:52 <rwhitby> hucksy: ok, see if both Preware and Preware Alpha function correctly
Apr 02 13:17:00 <hucksy> ok
Apr 02 13:17:09 <rwhitby> (we're doing both forwards and backwards compatibility testing here)
Apr 02 13:17:26 <rwhitby> all combinations of old and new client and old and new service must work
Apr 02 13:18:13 <hucksy> ok, so install/uninstalls with both versions
Apr 02 13:21:09 <rwhitby> ok, now reboot, and do the ps command again to make sure the new service is running
Apr 02 13:21:30 <hucksy> ok
Apr 02 13:23:01 <mjkjr|wirc> lol, can I enter a " > " in terminal?
Apr 02 13:23:19 <Lumiere> Sym key
Apr 02 13:23:32 <Lumiere> first row right side
Apr 02 13:24:26 <mjkjr|wirc> yeah but the sym box doesn't pop up, just highligts "sym" up top
Apr 02 13:26:25 <mjkjr|wirc> I know where it's at regularly but it's different in terminal app, atleast on my device
Apr 02 13:26:47 <hucksy> rwhitby: http://webos.pastebin.com/rztPnTjB
Apr 02 13:26:50 <hucksy> looks good
Apr 02 13:26:53 * Lumiere installs terminal
Apr 02 13:27:31 <rwhitby> hucksy: that doesn't look like it's running the new service
Apr 02 13:27:49 <rwhitby> hucksy: ls -l /etc/event.d/org.* /var/palm/event.d/org.*
Apr 02 13:28:13 <Lumiere> that is the ugliest ps line
Apr 02 13:28:16 <Lumiere> I have ever seen
Apr 02 13:28:42 <hucksy> -rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root          406 Mar 15 21:02 /etc/event.d/org.daemon.de.netstatd
Apr 02 13:28:43 <hucksy> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root          468 Mar 19 17:59 /etc/event.d/org.webosinternals.optware
Apr 02 13:28:43 <hucksy> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root           82 Mar 19 13:15 /etc/event.d/org.webosinternals.upstartmgr
Apr 02 13:28:43 <hucksy> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root         1500 Apr  2 15:13 /var/palm/event.d/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice
Apr 02 13:29:15 <Lumiere> hmm
Apr 02 13:29:24 <Lumiere> terminal preferences just crashed my pre
Apr 02 13:29:56 <rwhitby> hucksy: are you sure you gave me the correct ps output?
Apr 02 13:30:12 <rwhitby> hucksy: ls -l /var/palm/event.d/
Apr 02 13:30:31 <hucksy> yeah i will do it again
Apr 02 13:30:34 <hucksy> to be sure
Apr 02 13:30:47 <Major> Hey all
Apr 02 13:30:53 <rwhitby> oh, cool.  Preware Alpha just updated itself for the first time ever
Apr 02 13:31:01 <hucksy> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root           15 Jan  1  2000 lnsa_marker
Apr 02 13:31:01 <hucksy> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root         1500 Apr  2 15:13 org.webosinternals.ipkgservice
Apr 02 13:31:12 <Major> rwhitby Sounds cool.
Apr 02 13:31:15 <rwhitby> hucksy: ls -l /var/usr/sbin/
Apr 02 13:31:41 <hucksy> -rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root        54411 Apr  2 15:13 org.webosinternals.ipkgservice
Apr 02 13:31:41 <hucksy> -rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root        16391 Mar 19 13:15 org.webosinternals.upstartmgr
Apr 02 13:31:56 <rwhitby> hucksy: actually, an easy way to tell is to install something using Preware Alpha and see if you see the download progress meters
Apr 02 13:32:13 <Major> rwhitby How do I go about making a request for the save/restore program?
Apr 02 13:32:32 <rwhitby> Major: working code is the best way
Apr 02 13:32:35 <hucksy> rwhitby: ok, i will do
Apr 02 13:33:39 <rwhitby> hucksy: pick a big package, with lots of dependencies, like XTerm
Apr 02 13:34:00 <hucksy> hehe, was also my first idea
Apr 02 13:34:07 <rwhitby> Major: otherwise, you tell me your idea and we see if it flies
Apr 02 13:34:08 <Major> ahh ok so I need to locate the code and how it works
Apr 02 13:34:29 <Major> rwhitby I use a program called fuel to track my milage..
Apr 02 13:34:39 <Major> would suck if i lost the data lol
Apr 02 13:34:40 <hucksy> rwhitby: i see speed/time left etc.
Apr 02 13:34:48 <rwhitby> hucksy: excellent.
Apr 02 13:35:01 <hucksy> cool feature :)
Apr 02 13:35:12 <rwhitby> hucksy: now see if you can use the old Preware to update Preware Alpha (I've released a new version into the testing feed)
Apr 02 13:35:26 <hucksy> ok
Apr 02 13:35:39 <rwhitby> hucksy: Preware Alpha is absolutely awesome, there's no denying it.
Apr 02 13:35:50 <Lumiere> lol
Apr 02 13:35:55 <Lumiere> the only thing better then watching this on IRC
Apr 02 13:36:05 <hucksy> ;)
Apr 02 13:36:10 <Lumiere> would be if we had streaming video of hucksy's pre and rwhitby's monitor
Apr 02 13:36:35 <Major> lol
Apr 02 13:37:11 <Lumiere> with audio to hear hucksy cry out in horror when his pre explodes or rwhitby's reaction when it all works right :)
Apr 02 13:37:21 * Lumiere is bored :)
Apr 02 13:38:16 <Major> I can tell Lumiere
Apr 02 13:38:24 <hucksy> rwhitby: mhh... application was "probably" updated? ;)
Apr 02 13:38:41 <Lumiere> lol
Apr 02 13:38:47 <rwhitby> Hmm, removing Preware and the Package Manager Service using Preware Alpha doesn't work.  I'll need to fix that before release.
Apr 02 13:38:53 <rwhitby> hucksy: yep, probably.
Apr 02 13:38:56 <hucksy> ok
Apr 02 13:39:08 <hucksy> then a alpha-test again
Apr 02 13:39:10 <rwhitby> since the service is updated, preware doesn't get the final ok from the service
Apr 02 13:39:17 <Major> is the Alpha a completely new beast?
Apr 02 13:39:33 <rwhitby> completely new service, same mojo app
Apr 02 13:39:39 <Major> cool
Apr 02 13:39:47 <rwhitby> packaged together
Apr 02 13:40:10 <rwhitby> able to be installed with palm-install.  WOSQI is now obsolete.
Apr 02 13:41:00 <Major> wow
Apr 02 13:41:01 <Lumiere> rwhitby: wait... you mean preware could be in app catalog?
Apr 02 13:41:27 <VincentLaw> uh no :p
Apr 02 13:41:34 <Lumiere> uh darn :)
Apr 02 13:41:37 <Major> trying to kick jason to the curb ;)
Apr 02 13:41:39 <rwhitby> Lumiere: no, since it violates the bright line of security
Apr 02 13:41:44 <hucksy> rwhitby: alpha crashes after the update when i install something
Apr 02 13:41:53 <VincentLaw> an app that allows remote execution of just about any script added to the feeds, which is a HUGE no-no
Apr 02 13:42:02 <rwhitby> hucksy: in what way?
Apr 02 13:42:52 <hucksy> i try to install an app (time tracker) -> download -> install -> preware crashes
Apr 02 13:42:59 <rwhitby> ah, good, a simple reboot after removing preware and package manager service, and preware alpha starts working again.  so it was just the service stop in the prerm
Apr 02 13:43:09 <hucksy> dont know if the app was installed correctly, sec
Apr 02 13:43:17 <rwhitby> hucksy: homebrew or app catalog app?
Apr 02 13:43:30 <Lumiere> iirc time tracker is app catalog
Apr 02 13:43:51 <Lumiere> but the number of apps that are now both :)
Apr 02 13:44:00 <hucksy> feed: precentral
Apr 02 13:44:33 <rwhitby> hucksy: did you test that old Preware still works with new service?
Apr 02 13:45:07 * rwhitby tests with Fish Fillets NG - a 110MB app
Apr 02 13:45:12 <hucksy> lol
Apr 02 13:45:22 <hucksy> no, nothing installed
Apr 02 13:45:23 <hucksy> sec
Apr 02 13:45:26 <rwhitby> 2:30 remainig
Apr 02 13:45:42 <rwhitby> gotta love curl
Apr 02 13:46:20 <hucksy> yeah
Apr 02 13:46:24 <hucksy> stable preware works
Apr 02 13:46:28 <hucksy> without crash
Apr 02 13:46:30 <Lumiere> curl being installed by default is loveable
Apr 02 13:47:11 <nt4cats> My luna crashed when waking up once yesterday with 1.4.1.1  :(  I guess i'll have to look forward to 1.4.2 ...
Apr 02 13:47:15 <Major> quick question what is the directory that plam is throw the software to
Apr 02 13:54:27 <hucksy> rwhitby: mh, installed save/restore with alpha, no crash
Apr 02 14:04:07 <rwhitby> zsoc_wirc: Preware Alpha is in the testing feed
Apr 02 14:04:32 * rwhitby likes how "Alpha" means both pre-beta and also singular.
Apr 02 14:04:36 <zsoc_wirc> rwhitby: late night eh? I'll check it out.
Apr 02 14:04:58 <mikewx> btw updating 1.4.0->1.4.1 with preware patches is not safe :(
Apr 02 14:05:00 <rwhitby> zsoc_wirc: what better time to start alpha testing Preware Alpha than the easter long weekend
Apr 02 14:05:15 <rwhitby> mikewx: worked perfectly for me
Apr 02 14:05:20 <mikewx> didn't for me.
Apr 02 14:05:31 <nt4cats> mikewx: worked perfectly for me
Apr 02 14:05:32 <atlanta> goodmorning all
Apr 02 14:05:39 <mikewx> my patches were all non-working, and I had to uninstall them with preware, now they won't install again.
Apr 02 14:05:41 <nt4cats> godmorning atlanta ;)
Apr 02 14:05:48 <rwhitby> mikewx: have you ever installed something outside of Preware, or installed a theme?
Apr 02 14:05:50 <mikewx> it's not like i had may patches either
Apr 02 14:06:06 <zsoc_wirc> mikewx: you're suppose to update the patched after OTA, not uninstall
Apr 02 14:06:14 <rwhitby> mikewx: why did you uninstall them?  you should have just updated them in Preware
Apr 02 14:06:16 <mikewx> rwhitby: never installed a theme in my life, and nothing outside of preware since I bought this new device
Apr 02 14:06:26 <zsoc_wirc> nt4cats: 2 godmornings in a row?!
Apr 02 14:06:42 <mikewx> preware showed no updates for them (not in updted packages anyway) and they didn't work so I tried uninstall/reinstall
Apr 02 14:07:15 <atlanta> nt4cats: wsup my man
Apr 02 14:07:28 <zsoc_wirc> mikewx: it's possible you needed to do an 'update feeds'
Apr 02 14:07:37 <mikewx> probably a bit late now :(
Apr 02 14:07:43 <hozer> interesting.. preware seems to have crashed luna
Apr 02 14:07:47 <zsoc_wirc> it would seem
Apr 02 14:07:55 <mikewx> I'm guessing I need to wait for a 1.4.1 doctor and webos repair utility?
Apr 02 14:08:25 <zsoc_wirc> rwhitby: we figure out what's going on with the unknown package hanging?
Apr 02 14:08:37 <rwhitby> zsoc_wirc: nope
Apr 02 14:08:56 <rwhitby> mikewx: both are available now
Apr 02 14:09:03 <mikewx> sweet
Apr 02 14:09:27 * mikewx goes to download
Apr 02 14:09:32 <hozer> and I noticed there was an update to terminal services plugin
Apr 02 14:10:45 <zsoc_wirc> hozer: right, it fixes it
Apr 02 14:10:51 <mikewx> rwhitby: tnx for the help, as usual
Apr 02 14:11:09 <hozer> but then, I crashed it after looking at the help ;)
Apr 02 14:11:09 <rwhitby> zsoc_wirc: it mostly fixes it
Apr 02 14:11:16 <hozer> heheh
Apr 02 14:11:21 <zsoc_wirc> rwhitby: I say we remove that scene
Apr 02 14:11:30 <hozer> this is why I am 'the hozer'
Apr 02 14:12:12 <hozer> where do I find the git web interface so I can see what y'all changed?
Apr 02 14:12:49 <atlanta> gotta love waking up on a friday morning to someone that has anonymously depostied money in your acocunt
Apr 02 14:12:55 <mikewx> can someone give me the md5sum for sprint 1.4.1.1 doctor, teh wiki page does not list the md5 yet and i want to make sure the repair utility is getting the right version.
Apr 02 14:13:29 <rwhitby> 5f736a8baf27a3ea4d525c30f871f2d2  webosdoctorp100ewwsprint-1.4.1.1.jar
Apr 02 14:13:47 <mikewx> Tnx
Apr 02 14:14:03 <Lumiere> mjkjr|wirc: shift-, and shift-.
Apr 02 14:14:09 <hozer> atlanta: are you expecing anonymous donations?
Apr 02 14:17:22 <hozer> hrrm
Apr 02 14:17:27 <wp105> Hello - anyone here who can provide quick guidance on the 1.4.1 update?
Apr 02 14:17:33 <hozer> maybe I should update to 1.4.1.1
Apr 02 14:17:40 <Lumiere> wp105: maybe if you ask the question?
Apr 02 14:18:49 <wp105> Lumiere: Thanks.  Read in precentral that many were having issues with updates and AUPT.  Was this very wide
Apr 02 14:19:36 <wp105> widespread?  Is it best to hold off on update until the kinks are worked out?
Apr 02 14:21:01 <Lumiere> mine updated fine, I think there are some patches that didn't work in 1.4.1.1
Apr 02 14:21:10 <Lumiere> because some of the 'hide app' patches didn't work
Apr 02 14:21:46 <Lumiere> but one might guess that zsoc_wirc or rwhitby would know better
Apr 02 14:21:47 <wp105> Is 1.4.1.1 for US, or international only?
Apr 02 14:21:54 <zsoc_wirc> people don't understan aupt I think
Apr 02 14:22:07 <Lumiere> I think I saw o2 and sprint have it
Apr 02 14:22:11 <Lumiere> verizon is pushed back?
Apr 02 14:22:36 <zsoc_wirc> international is 1.4.1, sprint has the extra .1
Apr 02 14:22:46 <hozer> do I need to remove patches to apply 1.4.1.1 ?
Apr 02 14:23:05 <rwhitby> wp105: all the kinks were worked out about 2 hours after 1.4.1(.1) was first sighted.
Apr 02 14:23:16 <zsoc_wirc> hozer: no
Apr 02 14:23:21 <idontwan2know> hozer: no
Apr 02 14:23:41 <hozer> good deal. So I had some old patches that were applied at one point and then updated to 1.4  .. but I had a very old preware at the time
Apr 02 14:23:42 <idontwan2know> aupt ftw
Apr 02 14:24:42 <wp105> rwhitby: 2nd time I get to thank you for your help. Much appreciated - another donation on the way to support the great efforts.
Apr 02 14:24:51 <Major> I'm looking in the /usr/plam/applications folder but i do not see where the application I'm looking for is. It's the Fuel Application.. am I looking in the wrong place?
Apr 02 14:25:05 <Rick-work> rwhitby  what are you  doing still up?
Apr 02 14:25:41 <wp105> Thanks Lumiere and zsoc.
Apr 02 14:25:57 <sampson> what should i use for syncing music to my pre
Apr 02 14:26:08 <Major> Doubletwist
Apr 02 14:26:28 <Major> in my experience it's pretty simple to use
Apr 02 14:26:53 <Rick-work> media monkey works well too.
Apr 02 14:27:10 * hozer thinks of sick and disgusting things to do with X11
Apr 02 14:27:11 <Major> media monkey? never seen that one.. I'll look into it myself
Apr 02 14:27:19 <Major> lol
Apr 02 14:27:31 <hozer> I'll have to get the toolchain and build the Nomachine Nxclient
Apr 02 14:28:03 <rwhitby> Rick-work: "Preware Alpha"
Apr 02 14:28:41 <rwhitby> Major: /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/
Apr 02 14:29:27 <rwhitby> time to hit the sack.
Apr 02 14:29:36 <hozer> so I get the impression that Palm actually understands crypto & privacy
Apr 02 14:29:36 * rwhitby bbt - night all - have fun testing Preware Alpha.
Apr 02 14:30:25 <Rick-work> uh,  what gives you that impression?
Apr 02 14:30:29 <atlanta> ??
Apr 02 14:30:30 <atlanta> ilol
Apr 02 14:30:57 <hozer> they added updates to not store passwords on the backups they make
Apr 02 14:31:15 <hozer> and it sounds like they fully encrypt anything that gets backed up to Palm's servers
Apr 02 14:31:21 <zsoc_wirc> Rick-work: er.. or are you on this nick?
Apr 02 14:31:24 <Rick-work> Well, that's one I guess.
Apr 02 14:31:30 <zsoc_wirc> my tab complete is fail
Apr 02 14:31:35 <Rick-work> I am zsoc_wirc
Apr 02 14:31:46 <Major> rwhitby thank you for that info.. i'll see what i can do about getting you data for the apps i would like backed up
Apr 02 14:33:01 <Major> looks like they have a google export assistant already
Apr 02 14:38:28 <Major> wow rwhitby leaves and the place becomes a ghosttown lol
Apr 02 14:38:51 <zsoc_wirc> it's early in the west and late in the east
Apr 02 14:39:06 <zsoc_wirc> the germans and swiss should be around tho :D
Apr 02 14:39:16 <Major> ah
Apr 02 14:40:05 <Major> using WOQI how can I pull a full directory?
Apr 02 14:43:48 <ghost_of_zsoc> whoops, luna restart
Apr 02 14:44:25 <en0x> i only got one right after the update ;D
Apr 02 14:44:56 <Major> lol
Apr 02 14:45:08 <en0x> ohm
Apr 02 14:45:22 <en0x> i hate holidays
Apr 02 14:45:22 <en0x> :S
Apr 02 14:45:45 <Major> I enjoy them gives me 2.5x normal pay lol
Apr 02 14:45:54 <en0x> no overtime here
Apr 02 14:45:59 <Major> and i work so early i have the rest of the day off
Apr 02 14:46:03 <Major> ick
Apr 02 14:46:33 <en0x> and this holiday here is not even counted as a holiday lol
Apr 02 14:46:44 <Major> en0x question. How can I strip a program off of the palm?
Apr 02 14:47:04 <Major> en0x where are you
Apr 02 14:47:54 <en0x> here
Apr 02 14:47:58 <nt4cats> Major: I assume "strip off" means uninstall ... you can uninstall many programs by holding down the orange button and touching their icon in the launcher.
Apr 02 14:48:26 <Major> Sorry I mean pull from the palm to my PC to look at the files to figure out where they keep the data
Apr 02 14:48:33 <en0x> or go to app catalog tap on an app ... then tap on menu and tap delete
Apr 02 14:48:56 <en0x> oh this is easy.. but i cant tell :(
Apr 02 14:49:02 <Major> ah
Apr 02 14:49:15 <zsoc_wirc> Major: if it's a core palm app, /var/palm/applications (or something like that), other wise /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications
Apr 02 14:49:33 <Andreas__> Hello
Apr 02 14:49:47 <zsoc_wirc> Andreas__: hello webchatter
Apr 02 14:50:00 <Major> zsoc I know where they are just not sure how much of webos is like ubuntu
Apr 02 14:50:28 <Andreas__> Got a bit of a newbie question if its ok?
Apr 02 14:50:38 <zsoc_wirc> Major: it is linux. you can cp -r the directory you want to /media/internal and grab it off usb
Apr 02 14:50:42 <zsoc_wirc> ~asktoask
Apr 02 14:50:43 <infobot> This is IRC. Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question and if someone's around, they'll be glad to help.
Apr 02 14:50:49 <Major> works for me
Apr 02 14:51:40 <en0x> anyone played shrek cart?
Apr 02 14:52:01 <Andreas__> Wish to try and doctor my phone again to see if a different country setting will let me download from the App Catalog. Would be nice if knew how to backup my NFSU save game so I dont have to start it over, lol.
Apr 02 14:52:01 <Major> yes
Apr 02 14:52:33 <zsoc_wirc> Andreas__: the Save/Restore app available in Preware will backup your NFSU data
Apr 02 14:53:02 <nt4cats> zsoc_wirc: is save/restore in the primary feed or is it still in testing?
Apr 02 14:53:24 <Andreas__> Cheers, will give it a try. :D
Apr 02 14:53:55 <Tibfib> nt4cats: primary feed
Apr 02 14:53:57 <zsoc_wirc> nt4cats: it's released
Apr 02 14:54:18 <nt4cats> Tibfib / zsoc: cool, didn't notice the release.
Apr 02 14:55:18 <mikewx> webos repair util fixed me all up, thanks again guys
Apr 02 14:59:07 <en0x> time to get some games on my pre
Apr 02 15:00:43 <mikewx> games are good
Apr 02 15:01:17 <en0x> i think i will get the shrek cart ;D
Apr 02 15:01:47 <mikewx> my friend jsut bought a vzw pre plus
Apr 02 15:02:11 <mikewx> i feel like a 2nd class citizen. that wifi hotspot app would make me incredibly happy. i've been with sprint for 12 years and i'm thinking of jumping to vzw for it
Apr 02 15:02:23 <en0x> i got mytether
Apr 02 15:02:24 <en0x> :p
Apr 02 15:02:41 <mikewx> prolly cheaper to pay for that than jump to vzw...
Apr 02 15:03:30 <Major> i stayed with vzw but i wanted to drop to sprint
Apr 02 15:03:42 <en0x> verizon is too expensive
Apr 02 15:03:47 <atlanta> en0x: :-)
Apr 02 15:03:48 <atlanta> lol
Apr 02 15:03:52 <mikewx> yeah true that. my sprint deal is to die for
Apr 02 15:03:59 <en0x> well they have this plan 69.99 which is just talk?
Apr 02 15:04:05 <en0x> what about data and text messages?
Apr 02 15:04:06 <atlanta> mikewx:  HURT YOURSELF for saying that
Apr 02 15:04:11 <en0x> u have to pay extra for that?
Apr 02 15:04:26 <mikewx> why? i pay $56/month taxes and all fees inclued for my sprint pre...
Apr 02 15:05:05 <Major> i agree but it was becoming a huge ordeal just to switch. wife talks to her moms alot and didn't want her bill going up and got to the point where her mom was going to send a phone to her just to be able to talk with her... sigh
Apr 02 15:06:08 <en0x> lol
Apr 02 15:06:14 <en0x> they should talk on skype
Apr 02 15:06:15 <en0x> ;]
Apr 02 15:06:40 <mikewx> sprint free to any mobile. that's nice, dropped my minutes usage to almost nothing
Apr 02 15:06:41 <atlanta> LMAO
Apr 02 15:06:45 <Major> that would be just a huge headache guess who would have to support it when something happened
Apr 02 15:06:55 <atlanta> mikewx: soooo why would you even think about going to vzw
Apr 02 15:07:19 <mikewx> because i want to support the hotspot idea, but as you point out it's a bad idea
Apr 02 15:07:32 <Major> mikewx yeah would love that but it doesn't work the other way around and they have a freakin cheap plan for them so they don't get the 10 friend and family plan
Apr 02 15:07:33 <mikewx> I should not need to buy a new data plan for every damned device i own
Apr 02 15:07:51 <en0x> mikewx, for a christ sake just get the freetetherd and install mobile hotspot app
Apr 02 15:09:06 <en0x> and stop bitching
Apr 02 15:09:12 <atlanta> en0x: that doesnt work
Apr 02 15:09:27 <atlanta> the new update doesnt have the hotspot service
Apr 02 15:09:39 <en0x> well
Apr 02 15:09:49 <en0x> then buy an overdrive from sprint
Apr 02 15:09:51 <en0x> hehehehe
Apr 02 15:09:53 * en0x hides
Apr 02 15:09:56 <Major> lol
Apr 02 15:10:05 <Tibfib> you can get mobile hotspot to work on sprint... easily in fact
Apr 02 15:10:30 <Major> i read on precentral today someone got it working with 1.4.1.1
Apr 02 15:10:42 <Tibfib> I have it working on my pre on 1.4.1.1
Apr 02 15:10:48 <Major> tada!
Apr 02 15:11:05 * Major points at Tibfib he has it working
Apr 02 15:11:11 <en0x> yes but enabling ip forwarding in freetether than going to mobile hotspot app is a little to many steps
Apr 02 15:11:13 <en0x> :p
Apr 02 15:11:16 <Tibfib> lol
Apr 02 15:11:30 <Major> bitch bitch bitch moan moan moan LOL
Apr 02 15:12:40 <mikewx> i'm not bitching. if you like paying $60 month for 3 different data plans that's cool. but I want to support a company that realizes that's absurd and gives you the tools to not be stupid.
Apr 02 15:13:35 <Major> nope I don't like it but not much i can do about it... I'm stuck between a wife(rock)and a mother-in-law(hard place)
Apr 02 15:14:44 <Major> Tried to convince mother in law to move to sprint even said i'd pay for it but that didn't work as sprint doesn't work where she lives
Apr 02 15:15:31 <atlanta> mikewx: FAMILY PLAN?
Apr 02 15:15:32 <atlanta> lol
Apr 02 15:17:21 <mikewx> sprint will not allow you to add a data device like a mifi to your phone account. they require a completely seperate contract
Apr 02 15:19:54 <mikewx> if i could buy a mifi outright and spend $10/month to add it to my data cotnract. that would be pretty spiffy and i'd be all for it. they dont' allow it.
Apr 02 15:30:24 <hozer> hrrm.. what is a mifi?
Apr 02 15:31:48 <hozer> Oh, let me tell you, whatever the upfront cost of MyTether is.. it's still far cheaper to have sprint than verizon
Apr 02 15:32:08 <mikewx> http://nextelonline.nextel.com/NASApp/onlinestore/en/Action/DisplayPhones?phoneSKU=NV2200WFDO <==-- MiFi
Apr 02 15:32:10 <hozer> I ditched verizon and got a pre in October after I got a $400 bill cause I went over my 900 minutes
Apr 02 15:32:21 <mikewx> And yes, myteather is the cheap solution of course
Apr 02 15:33:04 <sepos> hello, ive tried to load preware a few times today and yesterday, doesnt seem to load past the palm-catalog
Apr 02 15:33:28 <en0x> it times out ;]
Apr 02 15:33:28 <sepos> any clue why?
Apr 02 15:33:35 <sepos> no it doesnt time out
Apr 02 15:33:39 <sepos> no errors or anything
Apr 02 15:33:41 <en0x> the palm catalog feed is too big for preware :D
Apr 02 15:33:56 <mikewx> i unchcked it
Apr 02 15:33:56 <sepos> it just "keeps loading" but never gets past
Apr 02 15:34:00 <en0x> u need to update to 0.9.33 version of preware
Apr 02 15:34:14 <sepos> its loaded every other time for the past month or so ive had preware
Apr 02 15:35:17 <sepos> ill try unchecking it, updating, and then see what happens
Apr 02 15:35:35 <sepos> thanks everyone
Apr 02 15:46:24 <egaudet_work> morning
Apr 02 15:46:40 <nt4cats> "sepos" -- is that supposed to be "Seppos"?  If so that isn't polite
Apr 02 15:46:52 <nt4cats> 'lo Mr. Gaudet
Apr 02 16:02:12 <hekevintran> where are photos on the pre stored?
Apr 02 16:02:25 <en0x> in DCIM?
Apr 02 16:08:12 <egaudet_work> when was 1.4.1.1 released?
Apr 02 16:08:56 <en0x> hmm
Apr 02 16:08:58 <en0x> 2 days ago?
Apr 02 16:08:58 <en0x> :P
Apr 02 16:09:04 <mjkjr|wirc> I need to block the "developers" 'dotdesk.com' and 'PalmAgent' from Preware. Could I achieve this through a patch?
Apr 02 16:09:05 <mjkjr|wirc> 31st egaudet_work
Apr 02 16:09:13 <nt4cats> egaudet_work: umm 1.4.1.1 went to Sprint the same day/time 1.4.1 went to everyone else
Apr 02 16:10:47 <nt4cats> (and mjkjr was right, it was on the evening of the 31st)
Apr 02 16:11:14 <nt4cats> (at least for me -- I'm in Philly -- not sure if roll-outs are regional or not)
Apr 02 16:11:14 <osi80z> heh
Apr 02 16:11:38 <osi80z> here in boston the following day.. it's a time difference that's all.
Apr 02 16:12:08 <en0x> oh another boston guy? :>
Apr 02 16:13:54 <egaudet_work> yeah I was completely unaware of 1.4.1, been so busy haven't had a lot of webOS time :(
Apr 02 16:14:10 <en0x> busy making kids?:>
Apr 02 16:16:53 <egaudet_work> lots more time before I'll be making little crazy people
Apr 02 16:23:09 <zsoc_wirc> egaudet_work: !!! hey
Apr 02 16:23:18 <zsoc_wirc> it's been boring in here without you
Apr 02 16:23:20 <egaudet_work> zsoc_wirc: HI !
Apr 02 16:23:30 <zsoc_wirc> and destinal. we need to ping him hard
Apr 02 16:23:42 <zsoc_wirc> egaudet_work: you see the Terminal patch?
Apr 02 16:23:47 <egaudet_work> no?
Apr 02 16:24:13 <zsoc_wirc> oh. it works now :)
Apr 02 16:24:13 <egaudet_work> i didn't even know 1.4.1 was out up until a few minutes ago lol
Apr 02 16:24:16 <egaudet_work> awesome
Apr 02 16:24:28 <zsoc_wirc> er, well besides the help scene is broken hehe
Apr 02 16:25:07 <zsoc_wirc> yeah, various people 'complaining' about aupt, when in actuality they just don't understand not every patch is going to be instantly compatible
Apr 02 16:25:15 <egaudet_work> there was another crash in 1.4?
Apr 02 16:25:24 <egaudet_work> for termplugin aside from what I fixed?
Apr 02 16:26:04 <zsoc_wirc> egaudet_work: apparently when you back out of the help screen yes
Apr 02 16:26:41 <egaudet_work> cool dtzWill got the invalidateRect to work correctly, I tried that breifly before being pulled away from webOS
Apr 02 16:27:05 <dtzWill> egaudet_work: yeppers. also commit before that fixes a crash that bpadalino found
Apr 02 16:27:13 <egaudet_work> cool nice job
Apr 02 16:27:22 <egaudet_work> dtzWill: did you verify that the forceredraw call was needed?
Apr 02 16:27:47 <dtzWill> egaudet_work: still crashes now, but AFAICT some not-awesome memory corruption is going on. which is unfortunate. times like this make me want my valgrind :D
Apr 02 16:27:52 <egaudet_work> Last I looked at the webkit source forceredraw was a dummy function that did nothing anymore (which was the underlying cause of the redraw stuff not working from 1.3.5 to 1.4)
Apr 02 16:28:07 <egaudet_work> when does it crash now?
Apr 02 16:28:42 <egaudet_work> methinks it's going to just end up being easier to re-write with PDK API
Apr 02 16:28:51 <dtzWill> egaudet_work: I did not. not knowing who wrote it originally I left it there, maybe they had a reason to want to make the draw happen--it's not clear to me how quickly the browser will send the draw event on an invalidated area
Apr 02 16:29:08 <dtzWill> egaudet_work: glanced briefly through webkit, didn't see it. quite possibly dummy func
Apr 02 16:29:28 <dtzWill> egaudet_work: crashes when you leave the scene  (example, via menu) and come /back/
Apr 02 16:29:58 <dtzWill> egaudet_work: i can get you a stack trace but it's not the most useful b/c memory is being corrupted elsewhere
Apr 02 16:30:07 <egaudet_work> well that's at least significantly better than crashing Luna on launch and not redrawing each keystroke :D
Apr 02 16:30:08 <dtzWill> things like this=0x3c4, etc lol x.x
Apr 02 16:30:27 <dtzWill> egaudet_work: :D yeah it does seem to work decently now
Apr 02 16:30:44 <zsoc_wirc> better, imo
Apr 02 16:30:44 <dtzWill> egaudet_work: errr on 1.4 i mean, i can't make comparisons to before i didn't use it enough
Apr 02 16:30:53 <egaudet_work> has it been released?
Apr 02 16:30:56 <dtzWill> i'm near a machine i can ssh from usually :)
Apr 02 16:31:02 <dtzWill> egaudet_work: yeah it has
Apr 02 16:31:10 <dtzWill> egaudet_work: :/ I didn't catch the scene crash thing
Apr 02 16:31:27 <dtzWill> egaudet_work: but i suppose it's still better than the completely broken thing that was out before
Apr 02 16:31:42 <egaudet_work> cool, I think that crash can be considered a minor annoyance ;)
Apr 02 16:31:51 <dtzWill> egaudet_work: zsoc_wirc suggests we remove all the other scenes and call it a day :P
Apr 02 16:32:03 <zsoc_wirc> yep
Apr 02 16:32:20 <egaudet_work> Calll it a feature, throw up a popup that says "terminal must restart" :P
Apr 02 16:32:26 <dtzWill> xD
Apr 02 16:32:45 <zsoc_wirc> what dependencies does the plugin have? it may not be pdk compatible
Apr 02 16:33:14 <dtzWill> well if they chroot us to some random directory
Apr 02 16:33:18 <dtzWill> might be..less useful anyway
Apr 02 16:33:34 <dtzWill> (just saying)
Apr 02 16:33:41 <zsoc_wirc> ... what dependencies does the plugin have?
Apr 02 16:33:48 <zsoc_wirc> can it be statically compiled?
Apr 02 16:33:57 <zsoc_wirc> OH
Apr 02 16:33:59 <zsoc_wirc> RIGHT
Apr 02 16:34:01 <zsoc_wirc> Ha
Apr 02 16:34:04 <egaudet_work> Well the PDK APIs will still work right, if they chroot it should just be from catalog installs
Apr 02 16:34:05 <zsoc_wirc> yes I see now
Apr 02 16:34:17 <zsoc_wirc> gotcha
Apr 02 16:34:44 <zinge> Hi all
Apr 02 16:34:46 <dtzWill> egaudet_work: different direction, but yes. zsoc_wirc is looking at what libraries we 'want' b/c apparently palm is interested in that
Apr 02 16:34:57 <dtzWill> zsoc_wirc: as in libraries that official pdk apps (catalog) can use
Apr 02 16:35:00 <egaudet_work> want as in ?
Apr 02 16:35:11 <zsoc_wirc> lol nevermind
Apr 02 16:35:26 <zsoc_wirc> egaudet_work: want made available for pdk apps in catalog
Apr 02 16:35:34 <zsoc_wirc> zinge: 'ello joe
Apr 02 16:35:44 <egaudet_work> ahh yes
Apr 02 16:35:50 <zinge> zsoc_wirc: how'd you know my name was joe? :-)
Apr 02 16:36:24 <zsoc_wirc> zinge: I call everyone joe
Apr 02 16:36:44 <zinge> Ah. In that case, you had to be right at least once, didn't ya?
Apr 02 16:36:56 <zsoc_wirc> zinge: first time, mate
Apr 02 16:36:56 <egaudet_work> don't believe him, he's a he
Apr 02 16:37:00 <egaudet_work> HE's a he
Apr 02 16:37:04 <egaudet_work> he's a HE
Apr 02 16:37:07 <zsoc_wirc> HE's a he
Apr 02 16:37:41 <egaudet_work> someone want to test/verify VKB 1.4.1 install/operational?
Apr 02 16:38:13 <egaudet_work> and can someone tell Palm that there is absolutely NO need to put the damn framework version in directory and file names!
Apr 02 16:38:36 <zsoc_wirc> you tell them :)
Apr 02 16:39:11 <egaudet_work> maybe I just did :P
Apr 02 16:41:29 <egaudet_work> brb
Apr 02 16:46:02 <sampson> the power button on my third pre is breaking :(
Apr 02 16:56:15 <Kyusaku> you sure it's not just Luna being unresponsive? :P
Apr 02 16:56:48 <MetaView> sampson: open the pre and try the space button
Apr 02 16:59:42 <sampson> Kyusaku: nah there isn't that click feel anymore
Apr 02 16:59:51 <sampson> it just kinda slides in
Apr 02 17:00:51 <sampson> it works i just know it's going to break soon
Apr 02 17:02:51 <bpadalino|work> quiet day today at work
Apr 02 17:03:53 <zinge> slightly louder day on this bus...
Apr 02 17:04:16 <zinge> I figured a 6 hour bus ride would be a good time to work on my app
Apr 02 17:04:41 <CosmoSRO> i have a quick question about a palm pre...i downloaded an app from the app sore that went directly to my phone...when i go into the webos quick installer i see the entry and can delete it from the phone, but have no way of extracting an ipk file from the phone...where is the ipk file?  is there an ipk file if i never had one in the first place?
Apr 02 17:05:35 <Kyusaku> the app was installed
Apr 02 17:05:43 <Kyusaku> hence the ipk was deleted
Apr 02 17:06:04 <CosmoSRO> oh
Apr 02 17:06:23 <Kyusaku> the app doesn't run from within an ipk
Apr 02 17:06:50 <CosmoSRO> so there is no way to extract the file from my phone so that i could restore the phone to factory specs and reinstall the app without having to buy it again?
Apr 02 17:07:12 <hekevintran> my phone's screen is broken and i cant see anything on it
Apr 02 17:07:14 <Kyusaku> you won't have to buy it again as long as you keep the same Palm Profile
Apr 02 17:07:18 <hekevintran> it is on and still able to charge
Apr 02 17:07:22 <hekevintran> and i can root into it
Apr 02 17:07:30 <hekevintran> is it possible to copy files out?
Apr 02 17:07:47 <Kyusaku> hekevintran: option+sym+u
Apr 02 17:07:58 <CosmoSRO> oh ok...so where do i go to download it again?
Apr 02 17:08:05 <hekevintran> Kyusaku: ?
Apr 02 17:08:38 <Kyusaku> hekevintran: press option(orange)+sym+u to put your phone in USB mode
Apr 02 17:08:53 <Kyusaku> USB drive mode*
Apr 02 17:08:57 <hekevintran> Kyusaku: oh
Apr 02 17:09:47 <Kyusaku> CosmoSRO: if you wipe your phone or get a new one and you log into your Palm Profile it will automatically download the apps you bought from the app store to your device
Apr 02 17:10:15 <Kyusaku> CosmoSRO: the apps you get from the app store get linked to your account.
Apr 02 17:10:24 <CosmoSRO> nice
Apr 02 17:10:29 <CosmoSRO> ok one more question
Apr 02 17:11:15 <CosmoSRO> is there a way to move the cursor around in a text message...like up arrows and left and right?
Apr 02 17:11:53 <Kyusaku> CosmoSRO: you mean in a text input field?
Apr 02 17:12:03 <CosmoSRO> yes or in a word document
Apr 02 17:12:15 <CosmoSRO> or a memo filed
Apr 02 17:12:20 <CosmoSRO> field
Apr 02 17:12:27 <Kyusaku> CosmoSRO: hold down the option button and just move your finger in those directions.
Apr 02 17:12:31 <mjkjr|wirc> egaudet_work: still need testing vkb for 1$
Apr 02 17:12:38 <mjkjr|wirc> 1.4.1
Apr 02 17:14:19 <Mark_M> Is this page still valid for creating and applying patches?  http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Applying_Patches
Apr 02 17:15:05 <egaudet_work> mjkjr|wirc: ?
Apr 02 17:15:09 <Kyusaku> Mark_M: no that's depreciated
Apr 02 17:15:23 <Mark_M> Kyusaku, I thought so.  Thanks.
Apr 02 17:15:24 <CosmoSRO> ok....finally....i am trying to sync what they are calling the native memos into the notes and tasks in outlook.  2 programs...chapura pocket mirror and companionlink will only sync the outlook notes into an additional memo and tasks area....any idea why?  is there a program that will sync my notes with outlook and put them into the memos area on the pre?
Apr 02 17:15:28 <Mark_M> Is there a newer page?
Apr 02 17:15:55 <Mark_M> I am trying to manually remove the SMS Tone per Contact patch so I can try to reinstall it.
Apr 02 17:16:13 <Mark_M> I don't want to run EPR and reinstall my 55 patches for one bad install
Apr 02 17:16:39 <Mark_M> egaudet_work, thanks for the Virtual Keyboard update today!
Apr 02 17:17:34 <Kyusaku> trying to manually remove an individual patch you might have to ask egaudet_work or someone else to know the exact commands to do that
Apr 02 17:17:59 <Mark_M> Kyusaku, thanks
Apr 02 17:18:04 <egaudet_work> what are the symptoms?
Apr 02 17:18:05 <hekevintran> Kyusaku: the option+sym+u doesn't work
Apr 02 17:18:27 <hekevintran> Kyusaku: the phone is badly damaged so its not surprising
Apr 02 17:18:34 <egaudet_work> mjkjr|wirc: look for 1.4.1-2 in testing feed shortly
Apr 02 17:18:39 <Mark_M> egaudet_work, I would like to try to remove the SMS Tone per Contact patch via command line then reinstall it.
Apr 02 17:18:52 <Mark_M> Preware and WOSQSI keep giving me errors
Apr 02 17:18:53 <hekevintran> Kyusaku: if i can novaterm to it, can i copy off files?
Apr 02 17:18:53 <egaudet_work> why command line?
Apr 02 17:18:55 <Kyusaku> hekevintran: if it doesn't work then maybe the keyboard is busted as well
Apr 02 17:18:58 <egaudet_work> what error?
Apr 02 17:19:40 <CosmoSRO> i am trying to sync what they are calling the native memos into the notes and tasks in outlook.  2 programs...chapura pocket mirror and companionlink will only sync the outlook notes into an additional memo and tasks area....any idea why?  is there a program that will sync my notes with outlook and put them into the memos area on the pre?
Apr 02 17:19:43 <Kyusaku> is there a command to put the phone in USB drive mode?
Apr 02 17:20:07 <hucksy> is there any docu/howto how upstart works/i can use it?
Apr 02 17:20:46 <mjkjr|wirc> egaudet_work: sorry that was unclear, I wasn't looking while typing. I thought I read you needed some testing done on vkb for 1.4.1
Apr 02 17:20:47 <Mark_M> egaudet_work, Unreversed patch detected!
Apr 02 17:21:13 <hekevintran> Kyusaku: is it not possible to copy files over novaterm?
Apr 02 17:21:40 <egaudet_work> Mark_M: pastebin the removal section for tht patch starting at "Patch removal" from webos-patches.log
Apr 02 17:21:50 * mjkjr|wirc finally got caught up
Apr 02 17:22:04 <Kyusaku> hekevintran: when you terminal to a device, you can't just cp file.ext C:|
Apr 02 17:22:25 <bpadalino|work> Kyusaku: use novacom send file:///path/to/file < file_to_send
Apr 02 17:22:30 <egaudet_work> mjkjr|wirc: were you the one using the testing feed vkb with the 2 packages split up?
Apr 02 17:23:41 <Kyusaku> bpadalino: hekevintran trying to copy files off his Pre if you know how to do it via novaterm, I'm sure he'd appreciate it
Apr 02 17:24:32 <bpadalino|work> novacom send and novacom get
Apr 02 17:24:40 <nt4cats> novacom get file://klog > log.txt
Apr 02 17:24:40 <egaudet_work> bpadalino|work: they changed it to send?
Apr 02 17:24:48 <bpadalino|work> oh, maybe put
Apr 02 17:25:06 <Mark_M> egaudet_work, http://webos.pastebin.com/prPECjUE
Apr 02 17:25:35 <bpadalino|work> gotta do work apparently :(
Apr 02 17:26:04 <karotte_exee> hi
Apr 02 17:26:23 <egaudet_work> Mark_M: how did you get in that state?
Apr 02 17:26:32 <hekevintran> bpadalino|work: thanks ill try it
Apr 02 17:26:35 <mjkjr|wirc> egaudet_work: yes, didn't clear efv, figured bc of aupt4?
Apr 02 17:26:56 <Mark_M> egaudet_work, I had the patch successfully working before 1.4.1.1 then did the update
Apr 02 17:27:09 <MetaView> why is the 3G-patch disabled? I don't understand it
Apr 02 17:27:14 <Mark_M> egaudet_work, I ran Preware to update the patches with AUPT
Apr 02 17:27:20 <egaudet_work> mjkjr|wirc: it is aupt still and should be fine
Apr 02 17:27:27 <egaudet_work> Mark_M: what do you mean had it working before update?
Apr 02 17:27:27 <karotte_exee> hey, why isn't preware in the appcatalog avialble?
Apr 02 17:27:46 <egaudet_work> oh nevrmind I read wrong
Apr 02 17:27:47 <nt4cats> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS_Exploration_-_Various_Information#Novacom_Restore_Program
Apr 02 17:28:03 <nt4cats> That link is examples of using novacom to xfer files
Apr 02 17:28:10 <Mark_M> egaudet_work, the patch was installed and working with 1.4.0 before the 1.4.1.1 update and updating the patches with Preware
Apr 02 17:28:38 <Mark_M> egaudet_work, Preware reported that this patched needed to be updated and this is when the error first occured.
Apr 02 17:29:09 <Mark_M> egaudet_work, all other patches updated fine to their new one or the placeholder using AUPT except for this one.
Apr 02 17:29:09 <egaudet_work> Mark_M: so it can't install
Apr 02 17:29:23 <Mark_M> egaudet_work, I cannot install or remove it.
Apr 02 17:29:36 <egaudet_work> ?
Apr 02 17:29:39 <Mark_M> egaudet_work, that is why I thought I would manually remove it.
Apr 02 17:29:44 <egaudet_work> you should not have the option to both
Apr 02 17:30:08 <Mark_M> egaudet_work, right now my only option is to install the patch.
Apr 02 17:30:14 <egaudet_work> your pastebin was the installation section, pastebin the removal section above it
Apr 02 17:30:52 <Mark_M> egaudet_work, let me see if I can get the remove option through Preware or WOSQSI
Apr 02 17:31:11 <egaudet_work> it already removed
Apr 02 17:31:14 <egaudet_work> when you did update in preware
Apr 02 17:31:31 <egaudet_work> the webos-patches.log should have the removal section already in there and installation sections for each of the patches you updated
Apr 02 17:31:53 <Mark_M> egaudet_work, WOSQSI is not showing it as an installed patch. There is no remove option.
Apr 02 17:32:40 <egaudet_work> I recommend Preware and neither should show it as installed because it's not...  but I need the removal portion of the webos-patches.log
Apr 02 17:34:24 <Mark_M> egaudet_work, preware does not show it as being installed
Apr 02 17:35:02 <Mark_M> I removed the log file before sending the last to pastebin.
Apr 02 17:35:19 <Mark_M> You have the entire contents of my log
Apr 02 17:36:25 <mjkjr|wirc> is the 1.4.1 patch feed down? worked this morning. my only patch available is user agent from testing feed.
Apr 02 17:40:30 <mjkjr|wirc> webos-patches feed doesn't have a url
Apr 02 17:42:38 <Mark_M> egaudet_work, I don't even have a directory for the patch anymore.  It looked like it was removed without reversing the patch.
Apr 02 17:42:54 <Mark_M> egaudet_work, I did not manually remove anything.
Apr 02 17:48:44 <mjkjr|wirc> what is the address for the patches feed, I'm going to try and add it manually since the address has disappeared.
Apr 02 17:56:05 * mjkjr|wirc wonders if this preware alpha he installed has anything to do with the missing patch feed.
Apr 02 17:56:44 <Mark_M> egaudet_work, I fixed it.  All I had to do is to manually copy the 2 files it failed on from *.webosinternals.orig to * and reinstall the patch through Preware.
Apr 02 17:57:37 <Mark_M> egaudet_work, it installed without a hitch and it works. The options appear in the contact edit menu and the sms tones work.
Apr 02 18:09:43 * nt4cats sounds my barbaric YAWP over the roofs of the world.
Apr 02 18:19:27 <Mark_M> Gotta get back to work now.  Hoping more patches are updated soon especiall the messaging ones!
Apr 02 18:20:26 <mjkjr|wirc> egaudet_work: vkb won't render, should I remove and reinstall the default themes/config package
Apr 02 18:23:33 * mjkjr|wirc remembers the issue in ticket 13 might have something to do with it?
Apr 02 18:47:27 <Jeah> Hello again, folks.  I've been having problems with the Updates app in webOS (which cascades into problems with the App Catalog, PreWare, etc when a new webOS version is out), and recently stumbled onto the cause.  It seems that the problem appears when I enable the REMOVE_CARRIER_CHECK patch in Meta-Doctor.  Without that patch enabled, Updates seems to work fine.  With REMOVE_CARRIER_CHECK, Updates just says "Checking for updates..
Apr 02 18:54:49 <mjkjr|wirc> egaudet: VKB is working good with 1.4.1 just had to remove and install default theme/config like last time because of dependencies.
Apr 02 19:56:34 <Kyusaku> haha, It's my friend's wedding next week and I got email notification that tuxes are ready last night. And I'm like "did you get the email?" and he's like "I haven't check" I'm like LOLwut then why do you have a BB?
Apr 02 20:02:29 <bsm> hi, I've got a dumb question, update 1.4.1 was released yesterday and still nothing available on my phone, is palm shipping THAT slow? at least phones requesting updates should get them,...
Apr 02 20:04:34 <hucksy> germany?
Apr 02 20:19:19 <phil_bw> dtzWill are you around?
Apr 02 20:41:08 <Andreas__> Hiya, done a backup with the Save/Restore app but after erasing the phone I get a error message when trying to install it again.
Apr 02 20:43:18 <Andreas__> "Clearing state_want and state_flag for pkg=org.webosinternals.saverestore (arch_priority=0 flag=16 want=2) An error occured, return value: 4."
Apr 02 20:44:59 <Andreas__> "Collected error: Cannot find package org.webosinternals.saverestore. Check the spelling or perhaps run 'ipkg update' "
Apr 02 20:45:40 <Andreas__> Could the program have been updated while I did my reinstalltion and how do I update the ipkg feed, i guess ipkg update means that?
Apr 02 20:59:32 <wp105> Hello - I don't know if I'm in the right place for this, but am looking for information on the issues with the SMS Tone per Contact update.
Apr 02 21:13:11 <wp105> Hello - can anyone provide some insight on the SMS Tone per Contact update?
Apr 02 21:13:56 <Andreas__> Its been a bit silent in here for a while so dont know whats up.
Apr 02 21:14:26 <wp105> OK - at least I know I'm getting through.
Apr 02 21:14:46 <Andreas__> atleast to me but i dont know jack :D
Apr 02 21:14:59 <wp105> We're in the same boat then.
Apr 02 21:15:31 <Andreas__> and the ship with the pro's sailed away :)
Apr 02 21:15:54 <halfhalo> not really
Apr 02 21:16:02 <halfhalo> I made a hole in that boat
Apr 02 21:16:49 <Andreas__> jack sparrow style
Apr 02 21:17:00 <wp105> halfhalo:  Do you have any info on the SMS Tone per Contact issues?
Apr 02 21:17:06 <halfhalo> nope
Apr 02 21:17:08 <halfhalo> sorry
Apr 02 21:17:13 <wp105> np
Apr 02 21:17:59 <wp105> Well, good night to you both.  I'll check back in a bit to see if anyone else is around.
Apr 02 21:18:39 <halfhalo> weel look who it is
Apr 02 21:19:11 * oilsworkn punches halfhalo in the kidney
Apr 02 21:19:23 * halfhalo stabs oilsworkn in the face
Apr 02 21:19:40 <oilsworkn> thats not cool
Apr 02 21:20:00 <ka6sox> thats no way to treat experts who help you!
Apr 02 21:20:26 <halfhalo> yes it is
Apr 02 21:21:15 <Andreas__> Sorry if im annoying but curious about the Save/Restore app, it generates a error while installing and it didnt do that earlier today.
Apr 02 21:21:52 <halfhalo> I'm going to go ahead and blame rwhitby for that.  Actually, I'm going to blame oil for that as well
Apr 02 21:22:36 <Andreas__> :)
Apr 02 21:22:44 <oilsworkn> i only joined hoping egaudet was here so i could show him http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4034/4477744118_878901b010_o.png
Apr 02 21:22:51 <oilsworkn> and make a remark about how familiar it looks
Apr 02 21:23:16 <matt4d617474> hi all... just starting to play with my wife's palm pre (thinking about doing some development)
Apr 02 21:23:24 <matt4d617474> but first things first... her calendar is all out of whack
Apr 02 21:23:37 <matt4d617474> i see that the calendar data is stored in a sqlite3 database
Apr 02 21:23:52 * halfhalo hears db and runs for the hills
Apr 02 21:24:10 <matt4d617474> she had her configuration such that it was receiving time zone from the network (cell tower)
Apr 02 21:24:20 <matt4d617474> i'm thinking that some tower gave her a whack timezone
Apr 02 21:24:53 <matt4d617474> was thinking about doing an update to change everything back to America/Chicago
Apr 02 21:25:09 <matt4d617474> was wondering if that would be a bad idea ... thought you guys might be in the know
Apr 02 21:25:26 <halfhalo> is her calendar synced to anything?
Apr 02 21:26:28 <matt4d617474> using... synergy (?), she has events that come from an exchange server in addition to events that she inputs locally
Apr 02 21:26:36 <matt4d617474> it sounds like there isn't two-way syncing (?)
Apr 02 21:26:39 <matt4d617474> pardon my ignorance
Apr 02 21:26:45 <matt4d617474> but i do love what i'm learning of the phone
Apr 02 21:27:01 <matt4d617474> it's much more free on the insides than android (imho at least)
Apr 02 21:27:02 <matt4d617474> so yeah
Apr 02 21:27:09 <matt4d617474> was thinking of doing "update palm_com_pim_CalendarEvent set timeZoneId = 'America/Central' where timeZoneId = 'America/Regina';"
Apr 02 21:27:12 <halfhalo> Well, the exchange events do have two way syncing, while the palm profile ones do not
Apr 02 21:27:21 <matt4d617474> hmmm
Apr 02 21:27:39 <matt4d617474> is there a column that indicates to which "source" (not sure the proper vocabulary) they belong?
Apr 02 21:27:40 * matt4d617474 looks
Apr 02 21:27:49 <halfhalo> no idea
Apr 02 21:27:58 <halfhalo> I'm staying away from db today
Apr 02 21:28:27 <matt4d617474> no worries
Apr 02 21:28:35 <matt4d617474> i'm happy with any help i can get ;-)
Apr 02 21:28:51 <matt4d617474> are there decent docs out there for the data model?
Apr 02 21:28:57 <halfhalo> nope
Apr 02 21:29:10 <halfhalo> no-one really uses it directly except for weird people
Apr 02 21:29:46 <matt4d617474> heh
Apr 02 21:30:05 <halfhalo> are they just off by a few hours in the calendar?
Apr 02 21:30:10 <matt4d617474> yes
Apr 02 21:30:20 <matt4d617474> and when she modifies it, the time jumps back to what it was
Apr 02 21:30:36 <Der_Popenfuherer> hello
Apr 02 21:30:43 <halfhalo> hola
Apr 02 21:31:10 <Der_Popenfuherer> how many are using pre or pixi on here?
Apr 02 21:31:16 <halfhalo> alot....
Apr 02 21:31:28 <Der_Popenfuherer> cool
Apr 02 21:31:29 <hucksy> only iphone users in here
Apr 02 21:31:39 <Der_Popenfuherer> get em
Apr 02 21:32:18 <Der_Popenfuherer> I have everything except the 800mhz overclock and mytether back on.
Apr 02 21:32:32 <Der_Popenfuherer> man does it seem slow
Apr 02 21:32:40 <halfhalo> mattreallylongthingie:  My suggestion is to do a profile reset.  I'm 99% sure it will restore all your calendar entries on the palm profile, and the exchange ones will just be resycned
Apr 02 21:34:13 <matt4d617474> that's what she said...
Apr 02 21:34:28 <Der_Popenfuherer> I have all those
Apr 02 21:34:29 <matt4d617474> (it's Matt in hex ascii, btw)
Apr 02 21:34:43 <Der_Popenfuherer> nice
Apr 02 21:34:44 <halfhalo> I'm lazy dammit!
Apr 02 21:34:57 <matt4d617474> k
Apr 02 21:34:59 <Der_Popenfuherer> sweet
Apr 02 21:35:07 <matt4d617474> profile reset...
Apr 02 21:35:10 <matt4d617474> looking
Apr 02 21:35:49 <Der_Popenfuherer> is anyonerunning the overclock here post 1.4.1.1
Apr 02 21:42:07 <phil_bw> dtzWill: you're more than likely not around but i just wanted to say thanks.  i just stumbled across your X11 packages and now have Pidgin running *perfectly* on my Pre.  In fact i am connected to IRC with it right now.
Apr 02 21:43:16 <oilsworkn> wirc > pidgin
Apr 02 21:43:18 <oilsworkn> :)
Apr 02 21:43:31 <phil_bw> oh i agree
Apr 02 21:43:46 <phil_bw> i installed pidgin for IM
Apr 02 21:43:58 <phil_bw> just tried IRC for the fun of it
Apr 02 21:47:03 <phil_bw> btw oil thanks for all your work too ;)
Apr 02 21:47:20 * oilsworkn blushes
Apr 02 21:47:58 * halfhalo smacks oil
Apr 02 21:48:02 <halfhalo> SNAP OUT OF IT
Apr 02 21:48:16 <phil_bw> haha
Apr 02 21:52:08 <phil_bw> :(  my debian img is already full and its sized at 1gig.  got ambitious and tried to install openoffice on my pre (for entertainment purposes reallyu
Apr 02 21:57:34 <zsoc> phil_bw: ambition is good
Apr 02 22:00:34 <phil_bw> zsoc, it is, but that particular bout of ambition took quite a whole over evdo :P
Apr 02 22:00:50 <zsoc> hahaha
Apr 02 22:01:10 <zsoc> phil_bw: what WM did dtzWill have packaged up? I haven't looked.. matchbox?
Apr 02 22:01:23 <phil_bw> he didnt
Apr 02 22:01:31 <phil_bw> it's just a naked xserver
Apr 02 22:01:48 <zsoc> oh
Apr 02 22:01:51 <zsoc> somewhere he has repos
Apr 02 22:01:53 <zsoc> in the WIDK i think
Apr 02 22:01:56 <phil_bw> i just used icewm from my debian image that i had been using via sdlvnc
Apr 02 22:01:59 <zsoc> with pidgin and a WM, i don't recall wich
Apr 02 22:02:04 <zsoc> OH
Apr 02 22:02:12 <zsoc> phil_bw: er, you can have it work _in a card_ if you prefer :d
Apr 02 22:02:36 <phil_bw> it is...?
Apr 02 22:02:56 <phil_bw> i can minimize the whole thing and switch around
Apr 02 22:03:01 <zsoc> clearly im missing something
Apr 02 22:03:23 <phil_bw> ok, this is what i did...
Apr 02 22:03:53 <phil_bw> i originally used a debian image and installed a tightvnc server
Apr 02 22:04:00 <phil_bw> used sdlvnc to connect to it
Apr 02 22:04:00 <zsoc> ah
Apr 02 22:04:03 <zsoc> got it
Apr 02 22:04:08 <phil_bw> got all of that setup nicely
Apr 02 22:04:12 * oilsworkn marks calendar
Apr 02 22:04:18 <zsoc> that's a lot of abstraction
Apr 02 22:04:29 <zsoc> oilsworkn: you clown
Apr 02 22:04:38 <phil_bw> when i found dtzwills version i installed it
Apr 02 22:05:01 <phil_bw> then just routed icewm to use it's display instead
Apr 02 22:05:10 <zsoc> oh that's interesting
Apr 02 22:05:36 <phil_bw> works beautifully
Apr 02 22:05:57 <phil_bw> and can use apt-get for all of my new program needs
Apr 02 22:06:17 <zsoc> open source ftw
Apr 02 22:06:33 <phil_bw> indeed
Apr 02 22:06:55 <phil_bw> i swear i never realized that X would run so nicely on a Pre
Apr 02 22:07:03 <phil_bw> on a stock 500mhz setup even
Apr 02 22:07:42 <zsoc> raster has learned me
Apr 02 22:07:44 <zsoc> X is light
Apr 02 22:07:56 <zsoc> if packaged properly :)
Apr 02 22:08:04 <phil_bw> apparently
Apr 02 22:08:39 <phil_bw> i have been happily switching to and from this and a text message with no lag
Apr 02 22:08:57 <phil_bw> i wonder...
Apr 02 22:09:11 <phil_bw> nope
Apr 02 22:09:16 <oilsworkn> lol
Apr 02 22:09:17 <phil_bw> tried a 3d game
Apr 02 22:09:20 <phil_bw> wasnt havin it
Apr 02 22:09:33 <oilsworkn> blame zsoc
Apr 02 22:09:39 <halfhalo> Thats what I do
Apr 02 22:09:40 <oilsworkn> and halfhalo
Apr 02 22:09:47 <oilsworkn> and dbsooner
Apr 02 22:10:12 <phil_bw> oh is he the "god of too many cards"?
Apr 02 22:10:12 <zsoc> phil_bw: I know you're happy with your little debian setup, but like I had mentioned earlier, pidgin and icewm are configured in the widk (it's in nonworking/, but they work)... they just need to be packaged. Might even cut down on the lag more to run it 'locally'
Apr 02 22:10:43 <phil_bw> zsoc I'll probably look into it later
Apr 02 22:11:24 <phil_bw> right now having apt-get available opens up a lot of possibilities
Apr 02 22:11:40 <zsoc> that is true
Apr 02 22:11:45 <zsoc> assuming what is available functions
Apr 02 22:11:49 <phil_bw> there really isnt any issues with this
Apr 02 22:11:54 <zsoc> although now that you have X... hmmm
Apr 02 22:11:58 <zsoc> you're right, I never thought of it that way
Apr 02 22:12:05 <phil_bw> havent tried anything that hasnt worked
Apr 02 22:12:10 <zsoc> We should package up the whole environment lol
Apr 02 22:12:19 <phil_bw> haa
Apr 02 22:12:42 <zsoc> or maybe have it do a dashboard download
Apr 02 22:12:50 <phil_bw> i was actually in the process of buildin a debian img that was all configured for the pre
Apr 02 22:13:20 <zsoc> When C ipkgservice hits, I may contemplate hacking some sort of 'download meter', like a subscription... I always wanted a little progress bar moving across my dashboard. I don't know why, progress bars are comforting.
Apr 02 22:13:35 <phil_bw> yes
Apr 02 22:13:39 <zsoc> Er, well assuming I know the code. Most Microsoft progress bars are so fake I want to beat my head on a brick
Apr 02 22:13:49 <phil_bw> they say "yep it's still working, its just slow"
Apr 02 22:13:53 <phil_bw> haha
Apr 02 22:13:54 <oilsworkn> progress = rand();
Apr 02 22:14:05 <phil_bw> or loop
Apr 02 22:14:06 <zsoc> oilsworkn: you and your javascript functions
Apr 02 22:14:17 <halfhalo> sooo.... quake II HTML5 anyone?
Apr 02 22:14:23 <zsoc> sorry, ECMAScript :p
Apr 02 22:14:29 <zsoc> halfhalo: yep. try it on your Pre?
Apr 02 22:14:31 <halfhalo> Oh, oh, oh, I like js!
Apr 02 22:14:32 <oilsworkn> yeah
Apr 02 22:14:34 <halfhalo> nope
Apr 02 22:14:41 <topher_> hey guys - is it possible to use the latest quick install against webos 1.4.1 or do I need to wait for a new version?
Apr 02 22:14:41 <oilsworkn> javascript is like Math.Random() or something
Apr 02 22:14:51 <zsoc> WebOS browser is surprising compliant with many things
Apr 02 22:15:08 <zsoc> topher_: define "against"?
Apr 02 22:15:12 <oilsworkn> surprising?
Apr 02 22:15:22 <oilsworkn> its just webkit...
Apr 02 22:15:26 <zsoc> if you mean the image it downloads, that's just for the novacom drivers
Apr 02 22:15:35 <zsoc> oilsworkn: by 'surprisingly' i meant moreso than firefox :p
Apr 02 22:15:42 <phil_bw> alright i better do some real work, im going to leave this running to see what kind of impact it has on the battery
Apr 02 22:15:52 <topher_> sorry, i mean use quick install to install preware on 1.4.1
Apr 02 22:16:00 <oilsworkn> zsoc, well firefox sucks
Apr 02 22:16:00 <zsoc> I better do some fake work
Apr 02 22:16:07 <oilsworkn> :)
Apr 02 22:16:11 * oilsworkn is doing fake work right now
Apr 02 22:16:35 <halfhalo> Thats what I'm doing
Apr 02 22:16:42 <halfhalo> I heart hulu
Apr 02 22:16:55 <oilsworkn> i dont think i could get away with hulu at work
Apr 02 22:17:01 <oilsworkn> too many people just pop in
Apr 02 22:17:04 <halfhalo> dual monitors ftw
Apr 02 22:17:09 <oilsworkn> not to mention the lack of speakers
Apr 02 22:17:14 <halfhalo> and I work in a bullpen type area
Apr 02 22:17:17 <halfhalo> and headphones
Apr 02 22:17:25 * oilsworkn also has 2 monitors at work
Apr 02 22:17:28 <halfhalo> plus the projectors vga port right here
Apr 02 22:17:31 <oilsworkn> but my back is kind of to the door
Apr 02 22:17:43 <oilsworkn> i am an alt+tab master, lets just say that much
Apr 02 22:17:53 <halfhalo> my screens are entirely vieable from the rest of the office
Apr 02 22:17:57 * zsoc is a ctrl+alt+left/right master
Apr 02 22:18:09 * halfhalo uses a mbp for work
Apr 02 22:18:11 <oilsworkn> that key command sucks
Apr 02 22:18:29 <zsoc> OH? WHAT VIEWPORT? NOPE. VANISHED
Apr 02 22:18:34 <zsoc> just got my desktop right here...
Apr 02 22:19:20 <mjkjr> Well how can I put Preware Alpha to the test?
Apr 02 22:19:27 <halfhalo> I have my T400 sitting here but im using it as a coaster
Apr 02 22:19:30 <oilsworkn> by installing it
Apr 02 22:19:34 <zsoc> mjkjr: check the changelog to see what it does. try out that stuff.
Apr 02 22:20:07 <oilsworkn> preware versioning makes me lol
Apr 02 22:20:11 <zsoc> topher_: what host OS are you using?
Apr 02 22:20:24 <zsoc> oilsworkn: that's what i should have done for april fools. bumped 1.0.0
Apr 02 22:20:32 <topher_> zsoc: vista
Apr 02 22:20:44 <oilsworkn> now its 0.9.50
Apr 02 22:20:48 <zsoc> topher_: if you go into your device manager, do you have any ?'s or !'s?
Apr 02 22:20:54 <oilsworkn> .50!
Apr 02 22:21:07 <zsoc> oilsworkn: 0.9.101 is when i'll put a stop to it
Apr 02 22:21:35 <mjkjr> lol "by installing it"
Apr 02 22:21:37 <topher_> zsoc: just for a ethernet controller and SM Bus controller. Palm Novacom seems fine
Apr 02 22:22:27 <zsoc> topher_: theeeennnn... it should work. I'm not sure if there are other 'testing' options in windows. You could try going into wosqi options and reinstalling novacom anyway
Apr 02 22:22:32 <zsoc> and then unplugging/plugging back in
Apr 02 22:22:39 <zsoc> i mean... it's windows. you could try restarting.
Apr 02 22:22:41 <zsoc> topher_: you have dev mode on?
Apr 02 22:22:45 <mjkjr> changelog isn't very descriptive.  Just says that it's c-language based and has some nice things like progress meters.
Apr 02 22:23:09 <topher_> zsoc: tried reinstalling novacom though wosqui. dev mode is definatly on
Apr 02 22:23:15 <halfhalo> I learned something from my work app presentation today
Apr 02 22:23:19 <zsoc> mjkjr: then there you go. just do things with it and make sure it doesn't explode.
Apr 02 22:23:28 <halfhalo> shinyness is more important that it actually working
Apr 02 22:23:49 <zsoc> topher_: unfortunately I'm not any more familiar with vista or wosqi. you could try the canuck software forums for wosqi support
Apr 02 22:24:07 <topher_> zsoc: will do. thanks for your help
Apr 02 22:25:42 * mjkjr is trying to cause an explosion
Apr 02 22:26:27 <halfhalo> WAY ahead of you with the splosions
Apr 02 22:27:21 * mjkjr would actually be sad if Preware caused his device to explode
Apr 02 22:33:38 <polarbear> Hi. I ran webOS doctor before prewareinstaller.jar. will that cause problems?
Apr 02 22:34:38 <zsoc> ...
Apr 02 22:35:05 <polarbear> nvm. i don't think it did
Apr 02 22:36:38 <rwhitby> morning
Apr 02 22:36:49 <halfhalo> hola
Apr 02 22:38:33 <bpadalino> rwhitby: what's the next thing that terminal needs to fix it? the menu breaks luna? makes it rescan or something ?
Apr 02 22:38:49 <rwhitby> bpadalino: menu crash
Apr 02 22:39:16 <bpadalino> is the current terminal that causes the crash in some feed i can auto update from ?
Apr 02 22:40:03 * mjkjr thinks Preware 0.9.53 is working pretty good
Apr 02 22:41:32 <zsoc> bpadalino: .. the webos-internals feed?
Apr 02 22:42:16 <bpadalino> zsoc, hrm .. i hadn't seen an updated terminal in quite some time ..
Apr 02 22:42:27 <zsoc> yesterday :>
Apr 02 22:42:32 <bpadalino> hrm
Apr 02 22:42:41 <bpadalino> it didn't pick it up today when i updated .. weird
Apr 02 22:43:15 <zsoc> make sure your testing feed isnt on
Apr 02 22:43:18 <dtzWill> bpadalino: memory corruption that results in a segfault when returning to the terminal plugin scene from a menu scene
Apr 02 22:43:45 <dtzWill> bpadalino: so the stack trace is not completely worthless, but almost. things like 'this' being 0x3c4 etc
Apr 02 22:43:48 <rwhitby> oilsworkn: 0.9.50 is only for Preware Alpha.  the public version is still at 0.9.33
Apr 02 22:43:51 <dtzWill> bpadalino: so someone was sloppy with memory somewhere :/
Apr 02 22:44:08 <dtzWill> bpadalino: good luck if you start tackling it, and post back if you find anything, i'm debugging it on and of
Apr 02 22:44:12 <dtzWill> *off
Apr 02 22:45:02 <rwhitby> mjkjr: there is no Preware 0.9.53 - that app is called Preware Alpha
Apr 02 22:46:28 <bpadalino> zsoc, my terminal is 0.2.3 .. is that current ?
Apr 02 22:46:59 <dtzWill> bpadalino: 0.2.5 is current
Apr 02 22:47:15 <bpadalino> hrm
Apr 02 22:47:49 <dtzWill> bpadalino: as listed http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-internals/armv7/ <-- here
Apr 02 22:48:23 <rwhitby> that's termplugin
Apr 02 22:48:41 <rwhitby> (note that we should merge termplugin and terminal using the same technique that saverestore and preware-alpha uses)
Apr 02 22:48:44 <dtzWill> ...yes it is. i'm sorry. terminal is 0.2.3, termplugin is 0.2.5. thanks rwhitby for catching that
Apr 02 22:48:55 <dtzWill> bpadalino: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Apr 02 22:49:56 <mjkjr> rwhitby, let me correct myself
Apr 02 22:50:15 <rwhitby> mjkjr: just trying not to cause confusion for people who are not alpha testing
Apr 02 22:50:32 * mjkjr thinks Preware Alpha version 0.9.53 is great
Apr 02 22:50:37 <bpadalino> interesting.. somehow i had the plugin without having the package installed
Apr 02 22:51:03 <dtzWill> jacques: ping
Apr 02 22:51:52 <rwhitby> bpadalino: you probably just deleted Terminal without deleting the plugin too
Apr 02 22:52:32 <nt4cats> did y'all know you can connect to the interwebs using your Pre?  Wow!
Apr 02 22:52:43 <dtzWill> nt4cats: lol
Apr 02 22:53:36 <nt4cats> I'm at a MLB game with my family (wife+kids), drinking a beer, and on the irc.
Apr 02 22:53:55 <bpadalino> curious - is the termplugin built with debugging symbols now by the autobuilder ?
Apr 02 22:53:56 <nt4cats> almost geek heaven
Apr 02 22:54:19 <dtzWill> bpadalino: err it shouldn't be
Apr 02 22:54:23 <nt4cats> (not enough boobies to qualify as heaven)
Apr 02 22:54:40 <dtzWill> bpadalino: according to makefile, no.
Apr 02 22:55:07 <bpadalino> thanks
Apr 02 22:56:53 <zsoc> nt4cats: i'm telling your wife
Apr 02 22:57:00 <bpadalino> so NPP_SetWindow() ?
Apr 02 22:57:03 <dtzWill> also is it just me or is that mobile phone madness competition thing worded........ with paticular bias? :)
Apr 02 22:57:18 <dtzWill> bpadalino: that's where it starts, but i think memory is messed up before that call
Apr 02 22:57:26 <dtzWill> bpadalino: I have a stack trace somewhere if you'd lke
Apr 02 22:57:35 <bpadalino> i just got a core file..
Apr 02 22:57:51 <dtzWill> bpadalino: okay. so you have all the debug info then, so nvm
Apr 02 22:58:49 <dtzWill> bpadalino: as i mentioned before you can see the _font_ptr gets messed up
Apr 02 22:59:02 * dtzWill wishes we could valgrind this sucker :)
Apr 02 22:59:43 <jacques> dtzWill, pong
Apr 02 22:59:46 <mjkjr> would it be possible to block certain "developers" from showing up in preware?  Kind of like how the preference to only show free apps
Apr 02 23:00:04 <nt4cats> dtzWill: can't you do that in the emulator somehow?
Apr 02 23:00:34 <rwhitby> mjkjr: sure, we're waiting for a webOS Mojo developer to submit code to do exactly that.
Apr 02 23:00:42 <dtzWill> jacques: just wondering where things were with the qemu/sb2 stuff on the autobuilder?
Apr 02 23:00:45 <nt4cats> mjkjr: make your own preware fork if you'd like.  It is open source.
Apr 02 23:00:53 <rwhitby> nt4cats: don't fork, contribute.
Apr 02 23:01:39 <dtzWill> nt4cats: no idea, unfortunately. but conceivably yes. i guess i could valgrind lunasysmgr in general xD
Apr 02 23:01:44 <mjkjr> rwhitby: could I do it with a patch?  Because I'm clearly not a webOS Mojo developer, lol
Apr 02 23:02:01 <jacques> dtzWill, well, after I got a segfault from as in the VM I dunno what else to try - it appears the VM itself is unstable
Apr 02 23:02:13 <rwhitby> mjkjr: if you have a patch, then you've already done the development work
Apr 02 23:02:18 * rwhitby bbiab
Apr 02 23:03:16 <jacques> maybe try a KVM based VM ?
Apr 02 23:04:37 * bhuey is mountain view right now
Apr 02 23:05:09 <bhuey> got one spontaneous Luna restart today from 1.4.1.1
Apr 02 23:06:11 <zsoc> bhuey: me too, but only 1 since i updated
Apr 02 23:06:27 <nt4cats> bhuey: I've had 2 since updating :(
Apr 02 23:06:39 <jacques> none for me since I updated - and I was getting about 1 per day
Apr 02 23:07:29 <jacques> I guess it hasn't been very many days yet
Apr 02 23:08:56 <bhuey> it's still better than what 1.4 was before
Apr 02 23:09:08 <bhuey> that thing was buggy and dog slow with that GC change
Apr 02 23:09:27 <dtzWill> jacques: the vm--is it qemu or kvm? (is it using hardware virt?)
Apr 02 23:09:33 * bhuey heard another Droid commercial from Verizon today on the radio
Apr 02 23:10:03 <jacques> dtzWill, XEN, hardware virt
Apr 02 23:10:06 <nt4cats> I'd say 1.4.1.1 is better than 1.4, but not as stable as 1.3.5
Apr 02 23:10:26 <jacques> dtzWill, on AMD - which I am starting to suspect as the problem
Apr 02 23:10:29 <bhuey> well, I expect another update relatively soon
Apr 02 23:10:30 <dtzWill> jacques: understood--the qemu that's crashing, is /it/ using hardware virt?
Apr 02 23:11:03 <dtzWill> jacques: b/c AMD supports hadrware virtualization while.. at least last time i checkd (6-8mo ago?) intel did not
Apr 02 23:11:25 <jacques> dtzWill, what discouraged me is when as in the XEN x86 VM segfaulted - and then ran fine on next attempt - no qemu/scratchbox involved
Apr 02 23:11:41 <dtzWill> jacques: oh, that's right. bah. that is discouraging.
Apr 02 23:11:53 <jacques> dtzWill, they both have hardware virt instructions - just different
Apr 02 23:12:24 <dtzWill> jacques: nested virtualization support i'm talking about, not just hardware virt instructions themselves. the extnesions that support nesting, like address tags etc
Apr 02 23:12:40 <jacques> dtzWill, oh neat - I dunno about that
Apr 02 23:12:46 <dtzWill> jacques: anyway looks like intel does support that but regardless if xen is segfaulting by itself then that's not the issue
Apr 02 23:13:09 <jacques> dtzWill, yeah AFAIK my as crash was only one level virtualized
Apr 02 23:13:41 <dtzWill> jacques: yeah appears so. if it was multiple i was going to suggest... we just don't do it that way, but if it's failing at one level there are issues.
Apr 02 23:14:19 <dtzWill> and maybe my AMD-happy self is too protective, but what's more likely--the chip itself doesn't support hardware virt properly (a core feature) or xen has some bug?
Apr 02 23:14:23 <dtzWill> maybe there's an update for xen? :/
Apr 02 23:14:47 <jacques> dtzWill, yeah - I don't know which version of xen is being used
Apr 02 23:15:19 <jacques> dtzWill, not sure I have access to the level 0 (or would it be level 1?)
Apr 02 23:16:44 <jhojho> whelp the 1.4.1.1 notification has come in. time to try to remember how to reverse the manual patching
Apr 02 23:16:54 <jacques> dtzWill, this is a new server (as you may know)
Apr 02 23:17:06 <dtzWill> jacques: oh, i didn't put those things together, no :)
Apr 02 23:17:32 <jacques> dtzWill, then again, I haven't heard any complaints about instability from others
Apr 02 23:17:56 <nt4cats> nite!
Apr 02 23:19:26 <dtzWill> jacques: yeah that's curious.
Apr 02 23:19:49 <dtzWill> it just generally seems unlikely that a big product like xen would have fundamental issues with "AMD" in general lol
Apr 02 23:20:22 <jacques> dtzWill, I agree
Apr 02 23:20:44 <dtzWill> ..not that that helps, i understand haha :/
Apr 02 23:20:51 <jacques> dtzWill, could be bad hardware :-\
Apr 02 23:22:43 <jacques> which, again, would probably manifest as instability in other use cases
Apr 02 23:23:38 <jacques> maybe the issue is related to the ubuntu server VM ?
Apr 02 23:23:54 <dtzWill> jacques: right. so as far as we know the new server works gloriously for everything else, but fails on qemu and misc other applications?
Apr 02 23:24:19 <dtzWill> jacques: OH this is a different vm instance than all others?
Apr 02 23:25:05 <jacques> dtzWill, AFAIK this instance is only for the webos-internals cross-building
Apr 02 23:25:17 <jacques> dtzWill, yes.
Apr 02 23:29:16 <dtzWill> jacques: do we know what OS is running as dom0?
Apr 02 23:29:32 <dtzWill> jacques: thanks for humoring me and my questions btw :)
Apr 02 23:29:47 <jacques> dtzWill, no, I don't know much about how the machine is setup
Apr 02 23:30:11 <dtzWill> jacques: okay, fair enough. :)
Apr 02 23:31:05 <jacques> dtzWill, do you know ka6sox? he has the inside scoop
Apr 02 23:32:10 <dtzWill> jacques: I've seen him around :). i'll bug him some then. mostly just passingly curious, since my work is often with VM's that just maybe i'll be useful :)
Apr 02 23:32:20 <dtzWill> also apparently i love my emoticons, fun fact :D
Apr 02 23:33:02 <jacques> dtzWill, apparently you know much more about virtualization than I do, so I have no doubt you could help
Apr 02 23:33:03 * mjkjr didn't notice
Apr 02 23:33:16 <dtzWill> mjkjr: :D:D
Apr 02 23:33:27 <mjkjr> lol
Apr 02 23:35:07 <jacques> dtzWill, did you see there is a gitorious repo for scratchbox2 now?
Apr 02 23:35:25 <dtzWill> jacques: I saw that nokia was taking it over, didn't see it was on gitorious.
Apr 02 23:35:31 * dtzWill goes and looks
Apr 02 23:35:35 <jacques> http://maemo.gitorious.org/scratchbox2/
Apr 02 23:35:44 <jacques> had to re-find the URL
Apr 02 23:36:26 <dtzWill> jacques: oh hey it's being updated. thank god, i had to manually patch when I built it, in particular it didn't support the scandir prototype changes
Apr 02 23:36:38 <dtzWill> and the latest stable release didn't work
Apr 02 23:38:00 <rwhitby> jacques: Xen didn't segfault, did it? I thought it was qemu running on Xen which segfaulted.
Apr 02 23:38:24 <bpadalino> hrm .. well that seems bad
Apr 02 23:38:52 <dtzWill> rwhitby: fwiw xen itself didn't segfault, but random userspace applications within the ubuntu vm apparently were segfaulting
Apr 02 23:39:16 * dtzWill lets jacques respond :)
Apr 02 23:39:18 <rwhitby> dtzWill: the autobuilder is on the second machine, not the new server.
Apr 02 23:39:57 <rwhitby> hmm - maybe we should try it on the main server, even though we usually don't mix builders and front-facing instances on the same box
Apr 02 23:41:04 <Jeah> I've been having problems with the Updates app in webOS (which cascades into problems with the App Catalog, PreWare, etc when a new webOS version is out), and recently stumbled onto the cause.  It seems that the problem appears when I enable the REMOVE_CARRIER_CHECK patch in Meta-Doctor.  Without that patch enabled, Updates seems to work fine.  With REMOVE_CARRIER_CHECK, Updates just says "Checking for updates..." forever.  I don't 
Apr 02 23:41:05 <bhuey> zsoc: one thing about 1.4.1.1 that's encouraging is that it's definitely a lot smoother than 1.4 was
Apr 02 23:41:27 <bhuey> more like it was in 1.3.5, but all around better
Apr 02 23:41:50 <rwhitby> Jeah: it's quite likely that removing the carrier check will also remove the carrier customisation, which will mean that the update app can't tell the update server which carrier you're using.
Apr 02 23:42:13 <rwhitby> Jeah: why are you removing the carrier check?  webOS Doctors are available for all carriers for 1.4
Apr 02 23:42:20 <Jeah> rwhitby: Ok, so semi-intended feature?  Or at least to be expected and not avoidable?
Apr 02 23:42:32 <Jeah> rwhitby: Mostly because I just don't want any Sprint stuff on there.
Apr 02 23:42:42 * bhuey wonders if Palm knows specifically what the out of memory errors in Luna come from yet ?
Apr 02 23:42:45 <Jeah> rwhitby: I take it that's a poor reason?  :-D
Apr 02 23:43:22 <rwhitby> Jeah:  you can debug by doing 'dbus-util --capture' while it's trying to access the catalog and seeing what errors are reported
Apr 02 23:43:49 <rwhitby> it's likely that one of the services is returning an unknown carrier
Apr 02 23:43:54 <Jeah> rwhitby: Sorry to be the dumb guy, but what am I running that in?
Apr 02 23:44:02 <rwhitby> Jeah: linux command line on the Pre
Apr 02 23:44:18 <Jeah> rwhitby: Accessed via novaterm or something or what?
Apr 02 23:44:20 <rwhitby> I recommend Novaterm on a Mac or Linux
Apr 02 23:44:36 <Jeah> rwhitby: Ok, perfect.  I can do that... probably!  :)
Apr 02 23:44:37 <rwhitby> (I use novaterm or ssh on a Mac personally)
Apr 02 23:44:48 <Jeah> rwhitby: Linux machine ready to go.
Apr 02 23:45:08 <Jeah> rwhitby: and do I run that command before or after I initiate the update attempt?
Apr 02 23:45:26 <rwhitby> Jeah: you run that command to start tracing, then you start the update app
Apr 02 23:45:44 <Jeah> rwhitby: Ok, cool.  I'll go give it a try.  Be back in a sec.
Apr 02 23:45:47 <rwhitby> Jeah: if that doesn't show the problem, you can set the LunaSysMgrJS debug
Apr 02 23:51:45 <jacques> rwhitby, I was afk - qemu in xen was segfaulting, but then I got a transient as in xen segfault - no qemu nor scratchbox involved
Apr 02 23:53:31 <jacques> trying on different hardware would be a useful test
Apr 02 23:58:29 <rwhitby> jacques: can you contact ka6sox then and ask him to set up the same instance on nas-server?
Apr 02 23:58:55 <rwhitby> if necessary, we'll run the autobuilder there
Apr 02 23:59:23 <rwhitby> So, who's testing Preware Alpha ?
Apr 02 23:59:40 <jacques> rwhitby, will do - do you know the processor on nas-server?
Apr 03 00:00:24 <jacques> rwhitby, is there any special procedure to installing preware alpha? or do I just update using preware?
Apr 03 00:02:32 <jhojho> can someone running 1.4.1.1 check if /etc/event.d/minidhcpd exists
Apr 03 00:02:39 <jhojho> pls?
Apr 03 00:03:06 <bpadalino> it doesn't for me
Apr 03 00:03:13 <jhojho> ok thx
Apr 03 00:05:22 <Jeah> rwhitby: Hm... I don't see anything wrong in the 'dbus-util --capture' output, but then again I don't really know what to be looking for.  http://webos.pastebin.com/N0PGMVBR
Apr 03 00:06:52 <Jeah> rwhitby: Oh wait, I see something saying invalid...  com.palm.phone?
Apr 03 00:07:09 <Jeah> rwhitby: Is it unhappy that there isn't a phone number associated at some level?
Apr 03 00:08:16 <rwhitby> jacques: install Preware Alpha from the testing feed, then reboot
Apr 03 00:09:15 <rwhitby> Jeah: lines 92 and 93
Apr 03 00:09:35 <rwhitby> Jeah: that'd be my guess
Apr 03 00:09:52 <Jeah> rwhitby: Is it semi-clear to you what that means?
Apr 03 00:10:27 <rwhitby> Jeah: omadm is some sort of carrier update related thing
Apr 03 00:10:58 <rwhitby> Jeah: I'd try again, this time not doing REMOVE_CARRIER_CHECK
Apr 03 00:11:23 <Jeah> rwhitby: Yeah, I accidentally did that earlier and it works then.  That's how I narrowed it down to that in the first place.
Apr 03 00:11:36 <Jeah> rwhitby: I just wanted to see if it could be made to work or if it was a bug or something.
Apr 03 00:12:02 <Jeah> rwhitby: If the answer is that that's how it is, I'm ok with just doing that.
Apr 03 00:12:42 <rwhitby> Jeah: since that meta-doctor feature is only really there for the short period of time when one carrier has a version out but another does not, I'm not going to spend a lot of time looking at it I'm afraid.
Apr 03 00:12:48 <Jeah> rwhitby: It just struck me as strange.  Since I would have assumed a bunch of people were using that option.  I guess I"m the only one that wants all the carrier stuff off of there.
Apr 03 00:13:13 <Jeah> rwhitby: Ok.  Not a problem then.  Thanks for the assistance!
Apr 03 00:15:07 * mjkjr is patiently waiting for hawx to install, pretty big game
Apr 03 00:15:09 <Jeah> rwhitby: Oh yeah, someone asked earlier while you were away, but I'm gonna need to know this in a sec anyway.  Is installing PreWare via webOS Quick Install ready for 1.4.1.1 already?
Apr 03 00:16:45 <rwhitby> Jeah: I've added "This is likely to break access to the App Catalog and Updates apps." to the doco for REMOVE_CARRIER_CHCK
Apr 03 00:17:06 <rwhitby> Jeah: yes, all four methods of installing Preware work on 1.4.1.1
Apr 03 00:17:14 <Jeah> rwhitby: Thanks, nice!
Apr 03 00:19:00 <Jeah> rwhitby: BTW, FYI, etc I think it only broke the App Catalog once the version didn't match the current one (ie once a new webOS version was released and couldn't be updated to).  Still probably worth noting, though.
Apr 03 00:19:13 <Jeah> rwhitby: Thanks again!
Apr 03 00:20:11 <rwhitby> ~emulate rwhitby
Apr 03 00:20:12 <infobot> Another Satisfied Customer!
Apr 03 00:20:24 * rwhitby bbl
Apr 03 00:27:30 <jacques> rwhitby, OK I'm running preware alpha now - should I uninstall preware ? I assume they cannot co-exist ...
Apr 03 00:28:19 <mjkjr> jacques, they co-exist
Apr 03 00:28:46 <jacques> interesting
Apr 03 00:29:18 * mjkjr is 99% sure
Apr 03 00:36:06 <mjkjr> jacques, here's what rwhitby said http://forums.precentral.net/2354331-post19.html
Apr 03 00:41:30 <jacques> mjkjr, thanks
Apr 03 00:42:06 <mjkjr> jacques, welcome
Apr 03 01:01:24 <jhojho> honestly, 1.4.1.1 at 600mhz feels plenty fast to me...
Apr 03 01:03:56 <lingfish> meh... go and scroll a list on an iCrap and you'll feel different.
Apr 03 01:04:32 <rwhitby> ok, time to redoctor my second GSM Pre to prove or disprove the country-of-first-activation theory
Apr 03 01:04:56 <lingfish> is the faster kern for 1.4.1 out yet?
Apr 03 01:05:16 <zsoc> lingfish: 1.4 one still works
Apr 03 01:05:21 <rwhitby> lingfish: kernel source from palm is not out, so modified version cannot be out
Apr 03 01:05:25 <lingfish> oh and still having same issue with Palm-catalog... was that fixed?
Apr 03 01:05:38 <rwhitby> but it seems that the 1.4.0 to 1.4.1 kernel changes are not enough to stop the phone booting
Apr 03 01:05:48 <rwhitby> lingfish: preware 0.9.33
Apr 03 01:06:01 <rwhitby> ok, so, to document my findings:
Apr 03 01:06:25 <lingfish> ok ta
Apr 03 01:06:39 <lingfish> oh how bizarre, it just loaded fine with 0.9.31
Apr 03 01:06:50 <rwhitby> 1) A German QWERTZ GSM Pre, running a Country: Germany palm profile, without a SIM inserted, in Australia, on Vodaphone, sees 595 apps, including paid apps.
Apr 03 01:07:08 <rwhitby> lingfish: it depends on a javascript timeout firing, so it's intermittent depending on load
Apr 03 01:07:14 <lingfish> k.
Apr 03 01:07:19 <lingfish> Speaking of... I'm not seeing paid apps.
Apr 03 01:07:48 <rwhitby> 2) The experiment is to prove or disprove the theory that the app catalog access is defined purely by country of first activation of the hardware identifier (i.e. IMEI or MEID)
Apr 03 01:09:07 <rwhitby> 3) At https://ps.palmws.com/palmcsext/console/pages/LoginPage.iface I have two profiles, let's call them "experia" and "natura".
Apr 03 01:10:01 <rwhitby> 4) Experia has Country: German, IMEI: 35813902052xxxx and a +49177344xxxx phone number associated with it.
Apr 03 01:10:04 <zsoc> i like the names
Apr 03 01:10:32 <rwhitby> zsoc: my other is "virtura"
Apr 03 01:10:44 <zsoc> of course :)
Apr 03 01:10:56 <rwhitby> and then there is my real profile and another profile for a fourth and fifth
Apr 03 01:11:55 <rwhitby> 5) Natura has Country: USA, and no device registered.
Apr 03 01:12:18 * mjkjr is blown away by the thought of a QWERTZ keyboard and wonders why Z would be there in the first place
Apr 03 01:12:34 <zsoc> mjkjr: some people speak languages other than english
Apr 03 01:12:54 <zsoc> and in these languages, z is more commonly used than y.
Apr 03 01:12:59 <mjkjr> well i know that, so is Z more common in other languages
Apr 03 01:12:59 <rwhitby> 6) Virtura has Country: USA, and MEID:A100000647xxxx and a 0000008212 phone number associated with it
Apr 03 01:13:09 <mjkjr> oh i see, thanks zsoc
Apr 03 01:13:11 <zsoc> mjkjr: German, in particular
Apr 03 01:13:14 <rwhitby> mjkjr: there is azerty in france too
Apr 03 01:13:36 <rwhitby> (meta-doctor supports it too)
Apr 03 01:14:38 <mjkjr> azerty, oh wow. i guess people that don't speak english think qwerty is weird then, lol
Apr 03 01:15:44 <mjkjr> so rwhitby, does that mess you up a little switching between devices?
Apr 03 01:16:55 <rwhitby> mjkjr: well, I have three devices sitting in front of me now, but between the back (the CDMA one does not have a touchstone back) and the Carrier string (the second GSM does not have a SIM) I can tell them apart
Apr 03 01:17:34 <lingfish> mjkjr: I totally got used to it straight away
Apr 03 01:17:40 <lingfish> I kinda prefer the placement, even in English
Apr 03 01:18:17 <rwhitby> lingfish: both my qwertz devices are meta-doctored to swap the y and z back
Apr 03 01:18:34 <lingfish> rwhitby: heh... I never needed to.. just totally got used to it.
Apr 03 01:22:01 <lingfish> rwhitby: Found another bug, it seems... whenever I've got Preware running, and it blanks and locks... then I wake it and drag the padlock up, it just kinda hangs there
Apr 03 01:22:10 <lingfish> I still have my large clock, and my wallpaper, but nada else
Apr 03 01:22:32 <rwhitby> lingfish: that happens for many different apps in 1.4.x, even for people who have never run homebrew
Apr 03 01:22:43 <lingfish> hrm, odd
Apr 03 01:22:47 <lingfish> but ok :)
Apr 03 01:22:50 <mjkjr> yep, an issue Palm needs to address ASAP, lol
Apr 03 01:23:02 <lingfish> only seems to happen with Preware for me
Apr 03 01:23:10 <lingfish> Any woprkground?
Apr 03 01:23:24 * mjkjr figured it would be fixed in 1.4.1.1
Apr 03 01:23:28 <rwhitby> 7) My production profile has Country: UK and my IMEI with no phone number attached, and sees 421 apps, no paid apps
Apr 03 01:23:48 <rwhitby> 8) Virtura sees 1876 apps, including paid US apps
Apr 03 01:24:15 <mjkjr> so 3 devices (lucky) and how many profiles?
Apr 03 01:24:48 <sbromwich> hi... is the org.webosintenals.ipkgservice problem known about with preware alpha 0.9.53?
Apr 03 01:24:49 <rwhitby> 9) Experia sees 535 apps (not 595 as previously reported) and sees the latest paid apps for .eu and has account adding capabilities with .eu billing countries
Apr 03 01:25:05 <rwhitby> mjkjr: 3 devices, 5 profiles
Apr 03 01:25:36 <rwhitby> sbromwich: no, that particular problem that you've detailed so carefully and explicitly is not known about ;)
Apr 03 01:25:59 <sbromwich> ok... I just posted it on the forums but I thought I would check here to make sure I'm not wasting anyone's time
Apr 03 01:26:02 <sbromwich> in a nutshell:
Apr 03 01:26:15 <sbromwich> palm-webos-device sbin # ls -l
Apr 03 01:26:16 <sbromwich> -rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root        54411 Apr  2 21:51 org.webosinternals.ipkgservice
Apr 03 01:26:18 <sbromwich> -rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root        16891 Apr  2 12:18 org.webosinternals.saverestore
Apr 03 01:26:20 <sbromwich> -rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root        16391 Apr  2 12:39 org.webosinternals.upstartmgr
Apr 03 01:26:22 <sbromwich> palm-webos-device sbin # ln -s org.webosinternals.ipkgservice org.webosintenals.ipkgservice
Apr 03 01:26:27 <rwhitby> sbromwich: I hope you posted in the Preware Alpha thread, and not the Preware thread.
Apr 03 01:26:28 <sbromwich> that fixes it.
Apr 03 01:26:32 <lingfish> I take it there's no workaround then?
Apr 03 01:26:33 <sbromwich> but it is of course a bodge.
Apr 03 01:26:50 <mjkjr> lingfish, workaround for the luna issue? no
Apr 03 01:26:54 <sbromwich> http://forums.precentral.net/webos-internals/199090-preware-288.html
Apr 03 01:27:16 <rwhitby> sbromwich: wrong thread, please delete that post and put it in the Preware Alpha thread.
Apr 03 01:27:21 <lingfish> mjkjr: k
Apr 03 01:27:25 <mjkjr> sbromwich, delete asap and move to preware alpha
Apr 03 01:27:36 <mjkjr> lol
Apr 03 01:27:38 <sbromwich> mova, or copy?
Apr 03 01:27:51 <mjkjr> delete and then repost in proper thread
Apr 03 01:28:02 <sbromwich> would you happen to have the url to hand?
Apr 03 01:28:14 <mjkjr> yes, 1 second
Apr 03 01:28:17 <sbromwich> ta
Apr 03 01:28:49 <mjkjr> http://forums.precentral.net/2354331-post19.html that's the thread
Apr 03 01:29:08 <sbromwich> thanks
Apr 03 01:30:19 <lingfish> blah... my phone is now braindead.
Apr 03 01:30:51 <sbromwich> done.
Apr 03 01:31:41 <sbromwich> and as a matter of curiosity, is it safe to leave the back of the phone off, or is the phone going to short on the aerial or whatever those two pins are?
Apr 03 01:32:20 <mjkjr> sbromwich: never had the desire to run my device without the back, lol
Apr 03 01:32:35 <mjkjr> why would you want to do that?
Apr 03 01:32:35 <sbromwich> I've been tinkering today and wedged it about 50 times
Apr 03 01:32:53 <sbromwich> easier to pull the battery out
Apr 03 01:33:02 <mjkjr> lol
Apr 03 01:33:30 <sbromwich> plus there is the issue that I am too lazy to run down 4 flights of stairs to grab an antistat bag.
Apr 03 01:34:25 <rwhitby> sbromwich: Preware Alpha 0.9.54 is now in the testing feed with a fix to that problem.  Thanks for reporting it well.
Apr 03 01:34:38 <sbromwich> np, thank you :-)
Apr 03 01:36:40 <rwhitby> sbromwich: any other quirks you've noticed?
Apr 03 01:36:56 <sbromwich> "Application probably updated"? :-)
Apr 03 01:37:07 <sbromwich> not yet, I only installed it about half an hour ago
Apr 03 01:37:19 <rwhitby> sbromwich: yeah, since the service restarts, Preware doesn't get the final notification of success.  it's like changing tyres on a moving car
Apr 03 01:37:49 <sbromwich> I've been busy fiddling with the innards and finding out all sorts of things, and posting threads that I am proud to say have been voted "terrible" on the dev forum.
Apr 03 01:38:03 <rwhitby> sbromwich: hardware innards?
Apr 03 01:38:10 <sbromwich> software
Apr 03 01:38:18 <zsoc> lolz@misspellings
Apr 03 01:38:37 <mjkjr> haha
Apr 03 01:38:39 <sbromwich> I used to work for palm/usr so I was curious to see if there was anyone I knew who had survived the years and was working on the phone
Apr 03 01:39:32 <sbromwich> didn't find anything but I was a little unhappy at how much (a) gets logged and (b) gets sent to palm so I fixed that up fairly quickly
Apr 03 01:39:46 <sbromwich> 0.9.54 just completed package download
Apr 03 01:40:16 * mjkjr read about blocking those updates to palm but forgot where
Apr 03 01:40:31 <sbromwich>  /etc/PmLog.conf
Apr 03 01:40:43 * lingfish tries 0.9.33
Apr 03 01:41:44 <lingfish> rwhitby: still takes ages, but eventually works now :)
Apr 03 01:41:55 <sbromwich> would it be possible to ignore feeds from files that end in ~?
Apr 03 01:42:34 <rwhitby> sbromwich: meta-doctor has a disable uploadd option
Apr 03 01:42:35 <sbromwich> I cocked up the url for the internals feed and edited it directly from joe and now I have "Testing-all" and "Testing-all~"
Apr 03 01:42:59 <JayCanuck> hi sbromwich
Apr 03 01:42:59 <rwhitby> just delete the backup file
Apr 03 01:43:15 <sbromwich> that's the obvious solution but I was just being lazy :-)
Apr 03 01:43:18 <sbromwich> hi JayCanuck
Apr 03 01:43:29 <zsoc> JayCanuck: it's a jason
Apr 03 01:43:38 <JayCanuck> ?
Apr 03 01:43:43 <rwhitby> sbromwich: you may even be able to delete it in Preware Manage Feeds
Apr 03 01:43:47 <mjkjr> yes
Apr 03 01:43:53 <lingfish> "This application is not available in your country"
Apr 03 01:43:56 <lingfish> tops
Apr 03 01:43:58 <zsoc> JayCanuck: hallo :)
Apr 03 01:44:09 <JayCanuck> lol, hi zsoc
Apr 03 01:44:23 <rwhitby> ok, so I'm official fairly pleased with the alpha testing of Preware Alpha so far.  No-one has reported any real logic errors.
Apr 03 01:44:28 <sbromwich> too late, I deleted it by hand :-)
Apr 03 01:44:40 <rwhitby> ok, back to the experiment.
Apr 03 01:44:41 <sbromwich> it's extremely fast compared to JS
Apr 03 01:45:53 <rwhitby> 10) (for those who came in late, we're trying to prove or disprove the coutry-of-first-activation theory of app catalog access.  See points 1) to 9) in the backlog for the conditions under which this experiment is being conducted.
Apr 03 01:45:53 <sbromwich> I might have found another bug
Apr 03 01:46:01 <sbromwich> but it might also be described as "well don't do that then"
Apr 03 01:46:01 <rwhitby> sbromwich: excellent
Apr 03 01:46:31 <zsoc> sbromwich: I personally file all bugs under that
Apr 03 01:46:34 <sbromwich> if I go to the list of all feeds, then go to the preferences page and disable all the feeds from palm, I'm still seeing apps from the palm catalogue
Apr 03 01:46:46 <mjkjr> have to update feeds manually after that
Apr 03 01:46:50 <zsoc> sbromwich: the idea is it doesn't happen untill you update feeds
Apr 03 01:46:51 <rwhitby> sbromwich: did you update feeds?
Apr 03 01:46:54 <mjkjr> assuming you haven't
Apr 03 01:46:56 <sbromwich> nup
Apr 03 01:47:04 <lingfish> UPDATE FEEDS!  BATTLESTATIONS!
Apr 03 01:47:09 <sbromwich> I just assumed it would pick up that I'd changed the config and react accordingly
Apr 03 01:47:10 * zsoc updates his feeds
Apr 03 01:47:16 <rwhitby> that's why - don't want to make you wait a couple of minutes if you didn't have to.
Apr 03 01:47:28 <sbromwich> ah, fair enough
Apr 03 01:47:31 <oc80z> whats good
Apr 03 01:47:42 <zsoc> sbromwich: now, it is possible to filter a feed
Apr 03 01:47:45 <sbromwich> perhaps pop up a warning message saying changes won't take effect until feeds are reloaded?
Apr 03 01:47:46 <zsoc> er, filter _to_ a feed
Apr 03 01:47:47 <rwhitby> oc80z: "Preware Alpha" now with download progress meters
Apr 03 01:47:51 <mjkjr> lolz that Preware Alpha was "probably updated"
Apr 03 01:48:03 <zsoc> rwhitby: holy crap, you didn't even let me do it? :>
Apr 03 01:48:14 <sbromwich> that might possibly cut down on the number of posts on the forum that boild down to "update your feeds" :-)
Apr 03 01:48:31 <lingfish> sbromwich: by the way... update your feeds.
Apr 03 01:48:32 <JayCanuck> sbromwich, I tried sendin ya a private message but either you're ignorin me or ya didn't get the message ;)
Apr 03 01:48:57 <sbromwich> ummmm
Apr 03 01:49:06 <sbromwich> I'm playing with a new irc client which might have the better of me thus far
Apr 03 01:49:14 <sbromwich> a /msg or a pm on the forums?
Apr 03 01:49:22 <JayCanuck> in irc, yea
Apr 03 01:49:22 <rwhitby> sbromwich: yeah, there's lots of nice mojo warnings that we could put in for people.  hopefully mojo webos developers can contribute some good patches for that.
Apr 03 01:49:35 <zsoc> rwhitby: i might be one soon lol
Apr 03 01:49:38 <oc80z> hmmph
Apr 03 01:49:42 <oc80z> sounds good :)
Apr 03 01:50:11 <rwhitby> oc80z: I wouldn't tell you anything less than good in response to "whats good", would I?
Apr 03 01:50:16 <sbromwich> I don't know, I suspect whatever you're messaging to me is just scrolling up the text window, if that was a /msg you just sent?
Apr 03 01:50:21 <oc80z> :D
Apr 03 01:50:25 * mjkjr wishes he could be a webos mojo developer
Apr 03 01:50:28 <oc80z> You are always consistant rw
Apr 03 01:50:30 <sbromwich> ok feed update completed and looks as expected
Apr 03 01:51:39 <sbromwich> let me flick onto another machine where I have a client I know how to use.
Apr 03 01:51:42 <bpadalino> i'd think auto-filtering should be the way to go for convenience sake :(
Apr 03 01:52:33 <sbromwich> there.
Apr 03 01:52:43 <sbromwich> old school ftw, as the young chaps are wont to say
Apr 03 01:53:02 <rwhitby> 11) First step is to create a meta-doctor for 1.4.1-wr with bypass first use
Apr 03 01:54:30 <rwhitby> 12) double check it's the right device from the 3 that are in front of me, and then doctor
Apr 03 01:55:32 <rwhitby> interesting: com.apple.JarLauncher[17214]: INFO: AppDeletion: removed the appDirectory: /tmp_mediafs/.palm
Apr 03 01:55:58 <sbromwich> oh, that reminds me... another way to get the "too many cards" problem is to fill up /media/ramdisk too much
Apr 03 01:56:06 <sbromwich> obvious, but it took me a while to click in
Apr 03 01:56:06 <rwhitby> looks like a new step in the doctor which deletes the .palm directory before running trenchcoat
Apr 03 01:57:57 * rwhitby bbl - need to interrupt the experiment for a couple of hours
Apr 03 01:58:22 <zsoc> I need to teach my wife whatever language I'm working on at the time so she can debug from the rear
Apr 03 02:06:50 <oil> there is a joke in there somewhere
Apr 03 02:06:53 <sampson> huh huh
Apr 03 02:06:56 <oil> but i can't put my finger on it
Apr 03 02:07:45 <mjkjr> that's what she said
Apr 03 02:09:22 <lingfish> heh
Apr 03 02:10:48 <rwhitby> 13) device doctored, turn on wifi and login to natura profile
Apr 03 02:12:53 * mjkjr decided that hawx is better than x-plane
Apr 03 02:14:06 * rwhitby agrees - had a dogfight over wifi with my son this morning
Apr 03 02:14:45 <rwhitby> 14) Run first use - English/USA
Apr 03 02:15:04 <sbromwich> in preferences in the alpha preware would it be possible to have the second line as a multi-select radio box or something? The combination I would like (Date/Vers/Feed) isn't one listed
Apr 03 02:15:07 <sbromwich> ?
Apr 03 02:15:18 <rwhitby> 15) (no sim inserted)
Apr 03 02:15:31 <rwhitby> sbromwich: probably with some major mojo work
Apr 03 02:15:47 <sbromwich> heh, ok :-)
Apr 03 02:15:54 * mjkjr doesn't know what a dogfight is yet, he is in training now
Apr 03 02:16:04 <rwhitby> mjkjr: multiplayer over local wifi
Apr 03 02:16:15 <rwhitby> 16) sign in to natura profile
Apr 03 02:16:26 <sbromwich> and out of curiosity is the tagline under the "Preware Alpha" headline randomly selected or is it based on what feeds you have enabled?
Apr 03 02:16:37 <rwhitby> sbromwich: UTSL ;)
Apr 03 02:16:54 <rwhitby> 17 ) dbus-util --capture to see accountservices replies while signing into profile
Apr 03 02:17:32 <sbromwich> is there a svn or git tree I can look at?
Apr 03 02:17:50 <rwhitby> sbromwich: git.webos-internals.org - have fun :)
Apr 03 02:18:00 <sbromwich> heavens, how obvious... thanks :-)
Apr 03 02:18:05 <rwhitby> interesting:  com.palm.luna   com.palm.backup //migrateData   «string=“{"deviceID": "MEID:A1000006476xxxx", "subscribe": true}”
Apr 03 02:18:21 <rwhitby> why is my GSM device migrating data from a CDMA MEID
Apr 03 02:18:56 <zsoc> sbromwich: if you run into something with my name on it, i didn't do it, complaints can go to rwhitby
Apr 03 02:19:08 <rwhitby> Hmm: com.palm.backup com.palm.luna           «string=“{"allDevices":["MEID:A100000647xxxx-14451-101","IMEI:3581390205283xxxx-0-101"]}”
Apr 03 02:19:18 <zsoc> interesting
Apr 03 02:19:27 <sbromwich> x11?!
Apr 03 02:19:43 <sbromwich> is someone looking at porting gpe or something?
Apr 03 02:20:20 <rwhitby> call    509             com.palm.luna   com.palm.backup //getDevices    «string=“{}”, string=“com.palm.app.firstuse 1015”»
Apr 03 02:20:37 <zsoc> sbromwich: xterm is in preware
Apr 03 02:20:42 <rwhitby> sbromwich: we have the xorg-server and some clients ported to run on SDL in a card
Apr 03 02:21:54 <sbromwich> oh, nice
Apr 03 02:21:55 <rwhitby> 18) ok, now to see what the app catalog can see with natura profile on the pre that could previously see paid apps in german app catalog using experia profile
Apr 03 02:22:11 <sbromwich> SDL seemed to be what really got the homebrew scene on the wii off the ground
Apr 03 02:24:47 <rwhitby> 19) ok, so my secondary GSM Pre, which was originally activated in Germany by my colleague who bought it there, can see paid apps in the german app catalog, irrespective of whether the palm profile used has Country: Germany or Country: USA
Apr 03 02:25:29 <oil> 20) wtf are you doing?
Apr 03 02:25:58 <sbromwich> are they perhaps using the mac of the wifi interface to mark what country the phone was destined for?
Apr 03 02:26:12 <sbromwich> mine here in .ca is 00:1D:FE:B3:CB:DE fwiw
Apr 03 02:26:45 <mjkjr> lol
Apr 03 02:29:10 <sbromwich> src/luna-methods.c: 99       if ((c < ' ') || (c > 127)) { - should that not be 126? 127 is DEL and I suspect could be used in nefarious ways
Apr 03 02:30:06 <rwhitby> oil: http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2352781
Apr 03 02:30:15 <rwhitby> oil: trying to disprove what I wrote there
Apr 03 02:31:05 <oil> ah
Apr 03 02:31:35 <rwhitby> sbromwich: yeah, good point.  are there any others between ' ' and 127 that we should be careful of do you think?
Apr 03 02:31:44 <sampson> man i was so angry when my old pre toasted itself after moving the profile
Apr 03 02:31:49 * rwhitby is pleased that someone else is now putting eyes on the C ipkgservice to find bugs
Apr 03 02:31:59 <sampson> didn't think that would happen and was like MEH I'LL JUST USE NOVATERM AND COPY SHIT TO INTERNAL
Apr 03 02:32:02 <sampson> woops!
Apr 03 02:32:35 <sbromwich> I can't think of any off the top of my head, let me have a quick shufti at an ascii tabke
Apr 03 02:33:01 <sbromwich> maybe `?
Apr 03 02:33:24 <sbromwich> I don't know if there's any way to force a shell escape but backticking stuff might cause something to go shonky
Apr 03 02:37:30 <sbromwich> any way to force a buffer overflow off the sprintf at line 108?
Apr 03 02:37:53 <sbromwich> snprintf might be a better option
Apr 03 02:41:58 * rwhitby bbl
Apr 03 02:44:10 <sbromwich> execcing /usr/bin/curl could be a problem if someone manages to dummy the user into installing an app that sets itself as an alternative to /usr/bin/curl
Apr 03 02:44:13 <sbromwich> libcurl?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Apr 03 02:59:57 2010