**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Apr 28 02:59:56 2010
Apr 28 03:02:49 * rwhitby waits for DeadPre to charge the battery to see what state it is in
Apr 28 03:03:05 <halfhalo_T400> lol
Apr 28 03:03:19 <halfhalo_T400> how broken was it described to be?
Apr 28 03:03:31 <rwhitby> apparently it went in water
Apr 28 03:03:39 <halfhalo_T400> oooo
Apr 28 03:03:51 <rwhitby> a number of months ago
Apr 28 03:04:24 * rwhitby bbl (lunch time)
Apr 28 03:04:31 <halfhalo_T400> lunch... lucky
Apr 28 03:40:51 <zsoc> preoccupied: i think i fixed the buggies except 1, which i'm ok with for now
Apr 28 03:40:58 <zsoc> preoccupied: i'll start with the play button
Apr 28 03:49:13 <zsoc> precorder 0.5.7 in testing feed
Apr 28 03:51:00 <sbromwich> zsoc: does it still feature unicorns?
Apr 28 03:51:24 <rick-home> unicorns with WINGS???
Apr 28 03:51:32 <sbromwich> one can but hope
Apr 28 03:51:33 <preoccupied> zsoc: sounds great. Think you can release tonight?
Apr 28 03:52:25 <preoccupied> zsoc: btw, i recorded a lecture today and it seemed to work ok. Unfortunately, it seems like it stutters every few seconds....not sure if there's a way to fix that
Apr 28 03:52:51 <preoccupied> my cpu was set to scale between 500 & 800
Apr 28 03:53:15 <sbromwich> preoccupied: lock the frequency would be my advice
Apr 28 03:54:04 <preoccupied> yeah....that'd be my guess
Apr 28 03:54:09 <FuMan> sbromwich, whats that uname -a or whatever command again?
Apr 28 03:54:11 <preoccupied> but it defiintely kills the battery
Apr 28 03:54:18 <sbromwich> or don't use ondemand
Apr 28 03:54:22 <sbromwich> FuMan: for what?
Apr 28 03:54:28 <FuMan> checking kernel date
Apr 28 03:54:29 <preoccupied> i was using the conservative governor
Apr 28 03:54:40 <zsoc> preoccupied: conservative was the problem
Apr 28 03:54:41 <sbromwich> preoccupied: if you're only using it for recording you should be able to clock down to 250MHz OK
Apr 28 03:55:06 <zsoc> it should work with default kernel
Apr 28 03:55:16 <zsoc> preoccupied: 8000 stream
Apr 28 03:55:17 <preoccupied> ok, i'll try that next time
Apr 28 03:56:22 <preoccupied> zsoc: ok, will do that as well. i recorded for ~45 minutes, and in that time went from 99 to 51%
Apr 28 03:56:46 <preoccupied> but i'm impressed at how well the mic could pick up
Apr 28 03:57:03 <preoccupied> i wasn't near the front of the classroom and my professor wasn't using a mike....and it still picked up the audio pretty well
Apr 28 03:57:06 <FuMan> zsoc, im assuming its normal for media capture to never stop saying "saving"?
Apr 28 03:57:09 <zsoc> preoccupied: there are a lot of other options as well. i'm still playing around with things
Apr 28 03:57:14 <zsoc> FuMan: incorrect
Apr 28 03:57:27 <zsoc> FuMan: that is a bug that happens when you stop while there is no media playing
Apr 28 03:57:37 <FuMan> sooooo
Apr 28 03:57:40 <zsoc> FuMan: you will find that if you leave the media playing, and hit the stop button, that will not happen
Apr 28 03:57:45 <FuMan> its normal for the way ive used it every time
Apr 28 03:57:45 <zsoc> that's the last bug i have to work out
Apr 28 03:58:03 <FuMan> well, im just that awesome at finding things :>
Apr 28 03:58:06 <zsoc> 0.5.7 fixes every stick up but that
Apr 28 03:58:19 <zsoc> FuMan: try it again, but hit stop on precorder while leaving the media source playing
Apr 28 03:58:24 <preoccupied> zsoc: alright, sounds good. i love it so far, definitely useful
Apr 28 03:58:38 <zsoc> preoccupied: glad. it's not useful at all for me! lol :>
Apr 28 03:58:44 <zsoc> except it keeps me busy
Apr 28 03:59:51 <preoccupied> zsoc: yeah. now i don't really have to listen to my boring professors drone on....I can do other stuff and fast play the lecture later....
Apr 28 03:59:55 <FuMan> zsoc, you sure, are correct
Apr 28 04:00:15 <FuMan> preoccupied, i sat recording with my phone plugged in the last couple days
Apr 28 04:00:25 <FuMan> i keep a microusb in my backpack... this guy is normally dead by noon without
Apr 28 04:00:48 <preoccupied> FuMan: haha...yeah, i got an extended battery. and yeah, i carry my usb everywhere
Apr 28 04:01:03 <preoccupied> zsoc: getting the upgrade bug again...
Apr 28 04:01:11 <zsoc> preoccupied: no you're not
Apr 28 04:01:12 <preoccupied> zsoc: it won't launch after upgrading
Apr 28 04:01:22 <zsoc> preoccupied: i totally fixed that
Apr 28 04:01:33 <zsoc> preoccupied: er.. unless it was open when you upgraded?
Apr 28 04:01:47 <preoccupied> zsoc: hmm, good question....i think it was open
Apr 28 04:01:55 <zsoc> preoccupied: yep, that is the only thing that would cause that
Apr 28 04:01:58 <preoccupied> zsoc: actually, i'm like 90% sure it was open
Apr 28 04:02:01 <zsoc> unfortunately, i can't fix that
Apr 28 04:02:12 <preoccupied> zsoc: can't you kill it before you start upgrading?
Apr 28 04:02:13 <zsoc> i don't think /any/ app upgrades properly if it's open when you upgrade it ;)
Apr 28 04:02:15 <halfhalo_T400> sure  you can
Apr 28 04:02:19 <zsoc> preoccupied: I /do/ kill it
Apr 28 04:02:27 <zsoc> preoccupied: but the subscription the app has stops that
Apr 28 04:02:47 * FuMan is brilliant
Apr 28 04:02:48 <halfhalo_T400> kill the subscrip on app close
Apr 28 04:03:00 <preoccupied> zsoc: you can't tell luna to kill it?
Apr 28 04:03:03 <FuMan> after being annoyed for months about palm requiring Glad Thats Not Me to be censored
Apr 28 04:03:05 <zsoc> halfhalo_T400: i /do/, the app was /open/ when he updated it lol
Apr 28 04:03:15 <FuMan> i just realized that I could terminal in, and remove the censor
Apr 28 04:03:18 <FuMan> muahahha
Apr 28 04:03:29 <zsoc> preoccupied: I'm not going to worry about it. i can't imagine how many people would try to update the app while it's open lol
Apr 28 04:03:34 * FuMan will now proceed forward SMS messages with naughty words :>
Apr 28 04:03:40 <zsoc> FuMan: can you verify the app works if you update it while it's not open?
Apr 28 04:03:42 <preoccupied> zsoc: lol, idiots like me. haha
Apr 28 04:03:47 <preoccupied> there are a lot of us
Apr 28 04:03:48 <FuMan> zsoc, hold
Apr 28 04:03:55 <FuMan> well, f
Apr 28 04:04:02 <halfhalo_T400> I meant when luna gives the app kill signal tell app to kill sub
Apr 28 04:04:09 <FuMan> not at the moment, as id have to manually install an old ipk
Apr 28 04:04:19 <zsoc> ah
Apr 28 04:04:20 <zsoc> ok
Apr 28 04:04:32 <FuMan> but for what its worth, the last upgrade raped me proper.
Apr 28 04:05:10 <zsoc> FuMan: that was before i fixed the postinst
Apr 28 04:05:17 <zsoc> it /really/ should work
Apr 28 04:05:18 <FuMan> indeed.
Apr 28 04:05:24 <FuMan> well, my upgrade went fine
Apr 28 04:05:27 <preoccupied> hmm
Apr 28 04:05:27 <FuMan> but, it was closed.
Apr 28 04:05:29 <preoccupied> not working for me
Apr 28 04:05:34 <zsoc> ok, that's good enough for me
Apr 28 04:05:35 <preoccupied> even after removing & reinstalling
Apr 28 04:06:13 <zsoc> preoccupied: yep
Apr 28 04:06:14 <preoccupied> and the moon icon is showing up as well
Apr 28 04:06:25 <zsoc> preoccupied: because the service is /still/ running
Apr 28 04:06:33 <preoccupied> oh...so i have to kill the service
Apr 28 04:06:35 <zsoc> preoccupied: and now you have .fuse files in your /bin of the app folder
Apr 28 04:06:35 <preoccupied> then remove it
Apr 28 04:06:36 <preoccupied> ?
Apr 28 04:06:52 <preoccupied> lol....ok
Apr 28 04:07:03 <preoccupied> how do i clean it up?
Apr 28 04:07:10 <zsoc> preoccupied: upstart is probably broken. you just have to manually kill the service
Apr 28 04:07:24 <preoccupied> ok
Apr 28 04:07:35 <zsoc> preoccupied: ps aux | grep -i precorder
Apr 28 04:07:45 <zsoc> kill -9 <pid>
Apr 28 04:08:17 <FuMan> what breaks least often these days
Apr 28 04:08:20 <FuMan> terminus or terminal?
Apr 28 04:09:30 <preoccupied> hmm...it doesn't appear to be running
Apr 28 04:10:40 <zsoc> FuMan: terminal is 100% running these days
Apr 28 04:11:00 <zsoc> preoccupied: verify /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.precorder/ doesn't exist
Apr 28 04:11:26 <preoccupied> it exists
Apr 28 04:11:35 <preoccupied> rm -rf org.webosinternals.precorder?
Apr 28 04:11:35 <zsoc> preoccupied: did you remove the app?
Apr 28 04:11:41 <preoccupied> well, it's installed now
Apr 28 04:11:50 <zsoc> preoccupied: remove the app, verify that folder doesn't exist
Apr 28 04:12:18 <preoccupied> removed it...it still exists
Apr 28 04:13:10 <zsoc> try to delete it
Apr 28 04:13:47 <FuMan> zsoc, you lied to me
Apr 28 04:13:55 <zsoc> oh my god what did i do now
Apr 28 04:14:11 <FuMan> terminal just bit it
Apr 28 04:14:13 <halfhalo_T400> murder!
Apr 28 04:14:20 <zsoc> FuMan: don't use the back gesture
Apr 28 04:14:26 <FuMan> its still got that whole no back gesture thing eh
Apr 28 04:14:30 <FuMan> jah,
Apr 28 04:14:33 <preoccupied> rm -rf org.webosinternals.precorder
Apr 28 04:14:33 <preoccupied> rm: cannot remove 'org.webosinternals.precorder/bin': Directory not empty
Apr 28 04:14:33 <preoccupied> rm: cannot remove 'org.webosinternals.precorder': Directory not empty
Apr 28 04:14:41 <zsoc> preoccupied: right, the service is still running
Apr 28 04:14:48 <preoccupied> and there's nothing in either
Apr 28 04:14:50 <preoccupied> just checked
Apr 28 04:14:58 <zsoc> preoccupied: there is
Apr 28 04:15:03 <zsoc> preoccupied: ls -la in /bin
Apr 28 04:15:08 <preoccupied> oh..
Apr 28 04:15:08 <zsoc> you will see the 4 fuse files
Apr 28 04:15:15 <preoccupied> ic
Apr 28 04:15:22 <preoccupied> ok...i'll just reboot and remove
Apr 28 04:15:27 <preoccupied> that should fix it, right?
Apr 28 04:15:37 <zsoc> preoccupied: it's a cryptofs thing feature
Apr 28 04:15:40 <zsoc> preoccupied: just kill the app
Apr 28 04:16:16 <preoccupied> but it's not...
Apr 28 04:16:20 <zsoc> sure it is
Apr 28 04:16:23 <preoccupied> not according to ps -aux | grep precorder
Apr 28 04:16:55 <zsoc> well if it wasn't then the fuse files wouldn't be there
Apr 28 04:16:59 <zsoc> preoccupied: did you close the card? lol
Apr 28 04:17:18 <preoccupied> zsoc: yeah, there's no card.
Apr 28 04:17:27 <preoccupied> zsoc: and it's not installed....according to PA
Apr 28 04:17:37 <zsoc> preoccupied: restarting would fix it, not sure why you have to tho
Apr 28 04:17:41 <zsoc> but it would fix it
Apr 28 04:17:44 <zsoc> restart, remove folder, reinstall
Apr 28 04:17:51 <preoccupied> lol, alright...will do that
Apr 28 04:22:09 <preoccupied> man...these boot times are a killer
Apr 28 04:22:57 <zsoc> This reebok commercial just showed many women's butts in various tight clothing. and a lady said the word butt a lot
Apr 28 04:24:19 <EdLin> zsoc: odd, considering they sell shoes, not pants.
Apr 28 04:24:39 <zsoc> EdLin: apparently their shoes tone your butt
Apr 28 04:24:45 <zsoc> but the commercial was very.. uh.. arousing
Apr 28 04:24:45 <EdLin> lol
Apr 28 04:25:17 <preoccupied> did anyone know that pressing orange + sym + i gives you random info (about luna i'm guessing)?
Apr 28 04:25:23 <EdLin> I'll take your word for it. I rarely watch TV anymore.
Apr 28 04:25:27 <k\t> bleh...
Apr 28 04:26:04 <k\t> there's another one with breast...
Apr 28 04:26:22 <EdLin> how do shoes tone your breasts?!
Apr 28 04:26:45 <k\t> by newtons law of motion... idk...
Apr 28 04:26:55 <k\t> kinetic energy...
Apr 28 04:27:01 <k\t> ???
Apr 28 04:27:03 <FuMan> hrm, never seen that I thing
Apr 28 04:27:06 <EdLin> bouncy shoes = bouncy....
Apr 28 04:27:52 <FuMan> ahahahah
Apr 28 04:27:53 <k\t> there you have it... 2nd and 3rd laws of motion...
Apr 28 04:27:55 <FuMan> i was going key by key
Apr 28 04:27:59 <FuMan> trying out other orange syms
Apr 28 04:28:00 <EdLin> oh well, I guess the reebok commercials are better than Palm's "borg queen" first commercial.
Apr 28 04:28:02 <FuMan> and didn't think to skip R
Apr 28 04:28:03 <FuMan> f.
Apr 28 04:28:15 <EdLin> lol
Apr 28 04:28:34 <EdLin> FuMan: I hate when that happens
Apr 28 04:28:36 <preoccupied> FuMan: lol..haha
Apr 28 04:29:04 <preoccupied> i know o + sym + u gets you usb mode...
Apr 28 04:29:33 <FuMan> and P is screen shot
Apr 28 04:29:37 <FuMan> R is restart
Apr 28 04:29:45 <FuMan> and I is whatever that luna info is
Apr 28 04:31:30 <zsoc> http://i.imgur.com/p83HI.jpg
Apr 28 04:31:35 <zsoc> that made me laugh hysterically
Apr 28 04:36:06 <idw2k|wirc> I have been very impressed at the sensitivity of the pre in recording audio.
Apr 28 04:38:03 <preoccupied> zsoc: yay, everything works again...thanks!
Apr 28 04:39:19 <zsoc> idw2k|wirc: i'm glad
Apr 28 04:39:19 <preoccupied> zsoc: what's the vox for?
Apr 28 04:39:28 <zsoc> preoccupied: voice activation, which will eventually work
Apr 28 04:39:48 <preoccupied> zsoc: oh, ok. that's gonna be a neat feature.
Apr 28 04:40:19 <zsoc> preoccupied: it sorta works on the media capture now, lol, as a 'feature'. If you start a recording pipeline for media capture, you will note it does not start counting until you actually play something
Apr 28 04:41:42 * halfhalo_T400 has peanutes
Apr 28 04:42:29 <zsoc> preoccupied: i'm going to get everything patched up, get it bug free, release beta.. and then work to 1.0, which will basically be a playback scene, so it'll list recordings, and you won't have to launch recordings in a separate app
Apr 28 04:42:42 <preoccupied> zsoc: oh, nice
Apr 28 04:42:59 <zsoc> preoccupied: i'm considering removing the .00 for the position counter.. and just have it count seconds.
Apr 28 04:43:11 <preoccupied> zsoc: yeah, i think seconds is all yo uneed
Apr 28 04:43:20 <zsoc> i can then call the query 1/5 as often, should speed it up
Apr 28 04:43:21 <preoccupied> zsoc: it should reduce cpu load as well...
Apr 28 04:43:29 <zsoc> preoccupied: it's set to low priority
Apr 28 04:43:42 <preoccupied> zsoc: oh, ok
Apr 28 04:43:44 <zsoc> that's why it jumps around.. it only bothers querying when it has some free frames
Apr 28 04:43:53 <zsoc> the magic of GLib
Apr 28 04:44:29 <preoccupied> zsoc: ok, lemme knew when you're close to the pubic beta
Apr 28 04:44:36 <rwhitby> hmm.  DeadPre does novacom battery charge reports before anything boots, but is not recognised when it has a good batter
Apr 28 04:44:39 <preoccupied> zsoc: i'll make sure the wiki is up to date and everything
Apr 28 04:44:55 <zsoc> :>
Apr 28 04:45:01 <zsoc> preoccupied: you're the best
Apr 28 04:45:28 <preoccupied> zsoc: haha, nope. This app is so great...haha been waiting a long time for it
Apr 28 04:45:30 <halfhalo_T400> could it be because deadpre is... dead?
Apr 28 04:46:00 <sethron> preoccupies: did you work on precorder 0.5.7?
Apr 28 04:47:11 <preoccupied> sethron: : nope. zsoc did all the work
Apr 28 04:47:15 <zsoc> sethron: he helped with testing and found me some license free icons :) and updates the wiki
Apr 28 04:47:23 <zsoc> just a generally cool guy
Apr 28 04:47:48 <preoccupied> zsoc: i'm not the one spending hours chasing random bugs
Apr 28 04:48:01 <sethron> weired, i updated with Preware alpha, and the icon was clear, and froze when i launched precorder
Apr 28 04:48:22 <zsoc> preoccupied: it would be quicker if it wasn't in my spare time... my spare time is generally spent drinking
Apr 28 04:48:27 <sethron> then the icon tured into a luna crecent
Apr 28 04:48:30 <zsoc> sethron: oh god... WAS IT RUNNING WHEN YOU UPDATED?
Apr 28 04:48:42 <sethron> um, no
Apr 28 04:48:47 * zsoc thinks
Apr 28 04:48:51 <zsoc> sethron: try uninstall/reinstall plz
Apr 28 04:49:04 <sethron> right, that's what i did :)
Apr 28 04:49:22 <sethron> it works, and it can play what i recorder using the mic
Apr 28 04:49:33 <zsoc> sethron: good :)
Apr 28 04:49:35 <zsoc> preoccupied: ah crap
Apr 28 04:49:45 <zsoc> i just found a bug in the postinst again lol
Apr 28 04:49:46 <sethron> then, luna restart, randomely.....
Apr 28 04:49:47 <zsoc> i'm so useless
Apr 28 04:50:01 <zsoc> sethron: eh, wait till webos 1.5 lol
Apr 28 04:50:02 <preoccupied> zsoc: haha, there's always bug
Apr 28 04:50:03 <preoccupied> s
Apr 28 04:50:04 <halfhalo_T400> yup
Apr 28 04:50:20 <sethron> it's a good thing i like to QA shyte n schtuff
Apr 28 04:51:23 <preoccupied> i really hope palm fixes that bug soon. i encouraged my friend to get a pre....and she's really pissed off now
Apr 28 04:52:07 <sethron> btw drpnull, dr podder is awosome
Apr 28 04:52:11 <zsoc> very soon i reckon
Apr 28 04:54:48 <zsoc> gotta jet, lata yall
Apr 28 04:55:03 <sethron> rwhitby: DeadPre?
Apr 28 04:55:26 <rwhitby> sethron: hi - received it today
Apr 28 04:55:54 <rwhitby> sethron: did you ever get novaterm or webos doctor to connect to it?
Apr 28 04:56:05 <rwhitby> or just the windows seeing some usb driver
Apr 28 04:56:13 <sethron> rwhitby: just showed up as bootie
Apr 28 04:56:34 <rwhitby> sethron: ok, that corresponds with what I'm seeing too
Apr 28 04:56:50 <sethron> rwhitby: it was submersed in water several months ago
Apr 28 04:57:27 <sethron> spare parts
Apr 28 04:57:50 <rwhitby> yep, it's getting warm with a battery in it too
Apr 28 04:58:35 <rwhitby> sethron: see /msg
Apr 28 05:10:33 <jhojho> so who else uses textmate here?
Apr 28 05:10:54 <johnlburger> !rules
Apr 28 05:11:08 <halfhalo_T400> me
Apr 28 05:11:26 <halfhalo_T400> i have a beta bundle somewhere
Apr 28 05:16:44 <jhojho> halfhalo_T400:  I see a webos bundle on github but it's minimal
Apr 28 05:16:57 <halfhalo_T400> not mine
Apr 28 05:17:57 <jhojho> wish there was a textmate bundle that did code completion
Apr 28 05:37:01 <OrR01> Anyone here know if Precorder can be used to record phone calls?
Apr 28 05:41:26 <jhojho> not that I know of
Apr 28 05:42:04 <rwhitby> got the doctor to connect to dementia pre
Apr 28 05:44:26 <jhojho> dementia?
Apr 28 05:44:44 <halfhalo_T400> nice
Apr 28 05:44:52 * halfhalo_T400 is watching ateam
Apr 28 05:45:45 <hape> morning
Apr 28 05:52:12 <rwhitby> jhojho: a pre that has been dipped in water months ago
Apr 28 05:52:31 <rwhitby> suspected dead, and but just revived (but it shows nothing on the screen)
Apr 28 05:54:09 <rwhitby> My devices are called virtura, natura, experia and dementia
Apr 28 05:54:29 <jhojho> have you seen this before? http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=golden+shellback&aq=0&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=golden+shel&gs_rfai=
Apr 28 05:54:43 <OrR01> Sounds.. Awesome! :D
Apr 28 05:54:48 <jhojho> mine are called pre and preplus =)
Apr 28 05:55:04 <jhojho> or paid and free
Apr 28 05:56:33 <halfhalo_T400> mine are called preone pretwo preplus and prefake
Apr 28 05:57:07 <jhojho> u have 4 devices?
Apr 28 05:57:16 <halfhalo_T400> 3 plus emu
Apr 28 05:57:25 <halfhalo_T400> plus an att pixi as soon as i can get one
Apr 28 05:57:58 <jhojho> I would have liked a gsm pre plus or pixi plus. oh well
Apr 28 05:59:33 <rwhitby> jhojho: I'll be buying a gsm pre plus as soon as they are available unlocked in .eu
Apr 28 06:00:58 <halfhalo_T400> sooo.... like... tomorrow
Apr 28 06:01:00 <halfhalo_T400> ?
Apr 28 06:01:07 <rwhitby> hopefully
Apr 28 06:01:28 <halfhalo_T400> their pricey though
Apr 28 06:01:46 <rwhitby> although I hope it arrives quicker than the last one, which DHL took *2* *MONTHS* to get from Germany to Australia
Apr 28 06:01:50 <halfhalo_T400> hoping the att pixi plus is only 319 unlocked like the vzw pixi
Apr 28 06:02:29 <halfhalo_T400> wonder if you can get someone to order it for you through the dev program and ship it
Apr 28 06:02:50 <rwhitby> ok, doctor succeeded - looks like I have a perfectly working headless Pre
Apr 28 06:03:03 <halfhalo_T400> nice
Apr 28 06:03:20 <rwhitby> now to meta-doctor with 1.4.1.1
Apr 28 06:03:53 <halfhalo_T400> heh, Im still working on the python script
Apr 28 06:03:59 <rwhitby> then I'll need to work out how to enable wifi from the command line
Apr 28 06:04:17 <halfhalo_T400> last part for the basics is to get it to package it
Apr 28 06:04:48 <rwhitby> wifi activation is something I want to add to the meta-doctor setup
Apr 28 06:04:57 <halfhalo_T400> nice
Apr 28 06:05:24 <jhojho> ?
Apr 28 06:05:33 <jhojho> I thought wifi activation worked?
Apr 28 06:05:41 <halfhalo_T400> I'm aiming for my minimetadoctor to be a stripped easy cut down version.  AKA only bypass activation and firstuse
Apr 28 06:05:47 <rwhitby> no, I mean presetting the wifi settings
Apr 28 06:05:51 <jhojho> ah
Apr 28 06:08:22 <halfhalo_T400> For 99% of people just the first two will work.  For everyone else theirs the full version
Apr 28 06:09:30 <jhojho> halfhalo_T400:  that would be good
Apr 28 06:10:45 <halfhalo_T400> Honestly, all thats left for it is the repackaging
Apr 28 06:11:02 <halfhalo_T400> both firstuse and bypass work
Apr 28 06:33:09 <millenomi> um, stupid question: PDK is unsupported on 1.4.1?
Apr 28 06:33:20 <millenomi> or do I only have an older PDK build?
Apr 28 07:25:34 <rwhitby> millenomi: apparently it has a hard-coded check
Apr 28 07:25:44 <millenomi> is it safe to override?
Apr 28 07:25:59 <millenomi> (guess not)
Apr 28 07:26:06 <rwhitby> dunno
Apr 28 07:26:33 * rwhitby flashes 1.4.1.1 meta-doctor to dementia.pre
Apr 28 07:27:38 <rwhitby> (much easier to control a device with a non-working LCD screen with dev mode activated from boot
Apr 28 07:42:08 <OltreIrc`5250> hi guys could anyone help me?
Apr 28 07:42:29 <Cicci> hi guys could anyone help me?
Apr 28 07:50:03 <Cicci> i cannot run webosdoctor
Apr 28 07:51:23 <noaXess> Cicci: you are on? linux, mac, windows?
Apr 28 07:51:32 <Cicci> win
Apr 28 07:52:17 <Cicci> i've installed java and done all that the procedure requests
Apr 28 07:52:33 <Cicci> however i run win 7 6 bit
Apr 28 07:52:39 <Cicci> *64
Apr 28 07:53:14 <noaXess> hae you run it from console with  java -jar webosdoctor.jar?
Apr 28 07:53:46 <noaXess> have ^
Apr 28 07:53:50 <rwhitby> hmm - I need a plastic spudger to get this case apart
Apr 28 07:54:04 <noaXess> rwhitby: what are you talking about?
Apr 28 08:02:00 <Cicci> noaXess:yes i've done
Apr 28 08:02:19 <Cicci> but it still not recognize the phone
Apr 28 08:04:37 <noaXess> Cicci: have you connected your phone in just charging mode and is the devmode enabled on the device?
Apr 28 08:05:15 <rwhitby> noaXess: I am taking apart a Pre
Apr 28 08:05:41 <Cicci> noaXess: yea i've done both things
Apr 28 08:05:58 <noaXess> Cicci: hm...
Apr 28 08:07:56 <rwhitby> Cicci: have you followed the recovery page on our wiki ?
Apr 28 08:08:48 <Cicci> can u paste the link?
Apr 28 08:09:08 <rwhitby> it's on the front page of our wiki, and the link is in the /topic
Apr 28 08:09:31 <Cicci> kk listen
Apr 28 08:10:01 <Cicci> my problem isn't to recover the pre at all because it doesn't function
Apr 28 08:10:15 <Cicci> but i have some problems with patches
Apr 28 08:10:24 <Cicci> from preware
Apr 28 08:10:52 <Cicci> i can install all patches but they will not function properly
Apr 28 08:11:38 <Cicci> so i thought that an hard reset is the best thing to do but as u know now i have problem
Apr 28 08:12:00 <Cicci> however i'll follow the wiki and next i'll gently ask u :)
Apr 28 08:12:03 <Cicci> thanks
Apr 28 08:12:45 <rwhitby> well, you need to start with being able to reliably connect to your device, and Palm has instructions on how to do that for the webOS Doctor
Apr 28 08:13:07 <rwhitby> we don't usually get involved until you can complete that step yourself
Apr 28 08:22:10 <rwhitby> wow, the volume key is really finicky to take apart, and the keyboard connector will be hard to ensure it's placed correctly when putting back together
Apr 28 08:23:26 <rwhitby> will need to work out which way around the volume key goes later too
Apr 28 08:25:59 <rwhitby> excellent, the device still boots with the back off
Apr 28 08:27:47 <geist> whatcha tryin to do?
Apr 28 08:36:17 <dtzWill> rwhitby's hoping there's a golden ticket inside
Apr 28 08:38:40 <rwhitby> geist: just practising taking it apart
Apr 28 08:38:50 <rwhitby> geist: and looking for a serial port of course :)
Apr 28 08:39:02 <dtzWill> ...a golden serial port...
Apr 28 08:39:03 * dtzWill drops it
Apr 28 08:39:15 <geist> ah. no the main serial port is multiplexed with the usb port
Apr 28 08:39:21 <geist> it's a feature of the twl4030
Apr 28 08:39:32 <geist> alas you have to whack it with sw
Apr 28 08:39:59 <rwhitby> hmm - just wondering what the four test pads under the Q key do :)
Apr 28 08:40:30 <geist> yeah, there's another serial port on there somewhere
Apr 28 08:40:39 <geist> but it's not pin muxed that way by default
Apr 28 08:40:49 <geist> so you wont see any activity on it or anything
Apr 28 08:41:28 <rwhitby> after taking it apart this far http://s1.guide-images.ifixit.com/igi/NOJ3GWQvdHGNfKvP.large I'm reconsidering whether keyboard swap surgery is feasible
Apr 28 08:41:32 <geist> on our debug builds of bootie we can hold a key and it'll switch to that
Apr 28 08:42:32 <rwhitby> geist: I have a device which was sent to me for cost of postage - it was submersed a number of months ago.  doctored it and it seems to be working perfectly apart from the LCD
Apr 28 08:42:41 <rwhitby> backlight, buzzer, speaker all work
Apr 28 08:42:45 <geist> sweet
Apr 28 08:42:53 <rwhitby> keyboard works enough for ctrl-alt-del
Apr 28 08:43:38 <rwhitby> I was going to use it as a practice device for swapping physical keyboards
Apr 28 08:44:29 <bhuey> folks
Apr 28 08:46:35 <rwhitby> aha, looks like many more test points on the comms board: http://s1.guide-images.ifixit.com/igi/JJearqTXeHJFscAB.large not just the 4 exposed on the top right
Apr 28 08:46:51 <geist> yeah, there are tons of those
Apr 28 08:46:59 <geist> modem folks use it to talk to the modem cpu
Apr 28 08:47:32 <geist> that modem board is basically a fully functional seperate cpu + memory + flash
Apr 28 08:47:41 <geist> has its own os, own boot procedure, etc
Apr 28 08:49:00 <rwhitby> another antenna connector just left of mid on http://s1.guide-images.ifixit.com/igi/JJearqTXeHJFscAB.large too
Apr 28 08:50:13 <rwhitby> ah, I guess that's just the same as the two large contacts which mate with the casing antenna directly
Apr 28 08:50:24 <rwhitby> (bottom left corner of http://s1.guide-images.ifixit.com/igi/JJearqTXeHJFscAB.large)
Apr 28 08:50:43 <rwhitby> could probably buzz that out to check
Apr 28 08:52:28 <rwhitby> pity it won't stay powered just from the USB, but that's fairly normal with phones
Apr 28 08:52:53 <geist> oh?
Apr 28 08:52:59 <rwhitby> hmm - or maybe I just need the full 1A for that
Apr 28 08:53:14 <rwhitby> yeah, laptop USB's not gonna be enough
Apr 28 08:53:27 <geist> yeah, i think we added logic for it, since it's not generally sufficient as sooin as the modem fires up
Apr 28 08:53:38 <geist> but a naked board with no modem can totally be run from usb
Apr 28 08:53:47 <geist> though i think powerd will try to shut it down
Apr 28 08:54:31 <rwhitby> it drives the backlight, but with no LCD I can't tell easily.  I need some way to mux usb data to the laptop with 1A supply from the palm power supply
Apr 28 08:55:40 <rwhitby> the slider is pretty damn neat when you take a close look at it
Apr 28 08:59:00 <rwhitby> I need a better camera to document this.
Apr 28 09:01:53 <Sn4k3> hi all can anyone help me?
Apr 28 09:02:01 <rwhitby> geist: so the bit of white paper (which is now red paper on this device) next to the keyboard connector on the reverse of the comms board at the top right of http://s2.guide-images.ifixit.com/igi/GaQO4UrFyuFTCruN.large is a second water damage sensor I presume
Apr 28 09:02:27 <geist> yeah, probably
Apr 28 09:02:50 <rwhitby> it's well and truly dark pink / red on this device :)
Apr 28 09:04:25 <rwhitby> must be a lot of pins on the 50 pin connector allocated to power ...
Apr 28 09:05:05 <geist> some, most of them are the lcd, iirc
Apr 28 09:05:23 <geist> well.. hmm, no the lcd is some sort of semi serial thing
Apr 28 09:05:26 <rwhitby> I thought the OMAP was on the board behind the screen?
Apr 28 09:05:41 <geist> yah, was thinking of the other connector :)
Apr 28 09:06:02 <rwhitby> ah, haven't got that far yet :)
Apr 28 09:06:05 <geist> yeah, for the most part that connector is power + serial + usb to the modem
Apr 28 09:06:11 <geist> dont have the schematic handy
Apr 28 09:06:59 <rwhitby> interesting that the power is all bunched up rather than interleaving the signal pins
Apr 28 09:08:38 <geist> yaeh, looks like about 10 power, 10 ground
Apr 28 09:08:41 <geist> rest is actual stuff
Apr 28 09:08:56 <geist> usb, serial, gpios, i2c, etc
Apr 28 09:09:12 <geist> audio to/from modem
Apr 28 09:11:01 <rwhitby> wow, that keyboard bezel is not easy to remove unless you know about the two little bumps in the top middle
Apr 28 09:14:13 <rwhitby> ifixit is missing some steps between 15 and 16 :)
Apr 28 09:15:54 <rwhitby> excellent, still works with all the screws out
Apr 28 09:16:40 <rwhitby> yep, water damager sensor near the USB is pink/red too
Apr 28 09:18:48 <rwhitby> geist: do you reckon I'd be able to just swap front half and modem board between a CDMA and GSM device and expect it to work?
Apr 28 09:19:04 <rwhitby> (to get an unlocked GSM with qwerty keyboard
Apr 28 09:19:50 <rwhitby> from what I can see, it'd just need some nvram swapping too (depending if that is stored in flash on the omap board or comms board)
Apr 28 09:19:59 <geist> hw wise, i think they're the same. sw wise, absolutely not at all
Apr 28 09:21:23 * rwhitby wonders if there is more than the normal doctor image, and the tokens that trenchcoat can overwrite, like I do for changing the keyboard it thinks it has
Apr 28 09:23:19 <rwhitby> geist: there's no flash on the middle section though (the metal slider with keyboard, camera etc attached)
Apr 28 09:23:43 <rwhitby> so if I keep the omap board and the comms board together, and just swap out the middle metal section with the keyboard and camera, it should just work.
Apr 28 09:23:55 <geist> this is where i must stop commenting
Apr 28 09:24:04 <rwhitby> yep, no worries, understood.
Apr 28 09:24:09 <geist> a) i dunno, and b) can't really advise you on that kind of stuff
Apr 28 09:24:29 <rwhitby> I'll keep talking, but do not expect an answer from you of course
Apr 28 09:26:07 <rwhitby> that'd be quite funny, a GSM device with a Sprint logo on the mirror
Apr 28 09:27:52 <rwhitby> I love the little metal fingers that come down to support the back of the bottom row of keys
Apr 28 09:28:39 <rwhitby> hmm - I bet the accelerometer is on the camera board too, so the trimming for that would need to be copied across
Apr 28 09:30:12 <rwhitby> and the keyboard is off.  icky sticky
Apr 28 09:33:36 <rwhitby> awesome, still boots with they keyboard removed
Apr 28 09:39:01 <rwhitby> wow, even boots with the top connector on the omap board remove
Apr 28 09:39:50 <rwhitby> so the power button is on the bottom connector
Apr 28 09:43:33 * rwhitby bbl
Apr 28 10:01:35 <millenomi> um
Apr 28 10:01:52 <millenomi> question -- dunno if this is the right chan tho.
Apr 28 10:01:54 <millenomi> is pdk-device-install usable on 1.4.1 devices?
Apr 28 10:02:30 <millenomi> it errors out saying it wants 1.4.0 and of course this it isn't mentioned anywhere else :)
Apr 28 10:06:42 <millenomi> (did I ask already? I forgot)
Apr 28 10:06:54 <millenomi> oh, whoops, scrollback says yes. sorry about that.
Apr 28 10:48:29 <Marajin_> how odd
Apr 28 10:48:47 <Marajin_> why is it asking me to install WebOS 1.4.1 when I already have 1.4.1
Apr 28 16:15:03 <flare576> Two questions: Is the topic of getting Web OS running on a non-pre device (think PC not iPhone) a conversation allowed here? (I don't know all the ins/outs of licensing)?  If so, is anyone working on it?
Apr 28 16:40:11 <mickeyl> i sincerely doubt anyone is working on that
Apr 28 16:40:17 <mickeyl> will be an incredible amount of work
Apr 28 16:42:19 <mickeyl> as you will need to implement all the support libraries
Apr 28 16:42:21 <mickeyl> think "wine"
Apr 28 16:43:13 <zsoc_wirc> flare576: no gesture area on other devices
Apr 28 16:43:54 <flare576> no defined gesture area, true, but nothing saying I can't black out part of the screen and treat it as such :)
Apr 28 16:44:37 <flare576> Could even have a smart way of only using that real estate when a gesture is input, otherwise use it as viewable.
Apr 28 16:44:42 <zsoc_wirc> flare576: too much proprietary low level software. maybe if other omap34x phones are similar enough
Apr 28 16:44:44 <mickeyl> urm
Apr 28 16:44:54 <mickeyl> i would not think about gestures :)
Apr 28 16:44:57 <flare576> I don't want to use a phone.
Apr 28 16:45:00 <mickeyl> that's faaar away
Apr 28 16:45:06 <flare576> I want to make a tablet.
Apr 28 16:45:22 <mickeyl> you need to think about power management, sensors, wakeup, suspend
Apr 28 16:45:26 <mickeyl> itchy lowlevel details
Apr 28 16:45:30 <mickeyl> all which you need to reimplement
Apr 28 16:45:46 <mickeyl> and you're forced to omap btw.
Apr 28 16:45:50 <mickeyl> since you can't recompile the code
Apr 28 16:46:09 <flare576> not saying it'd be a fast project, just curious if we could talk about it here and if anyone was working on it.
Apr 28 16:46:21 <zsoc_wirc> you could probably do it on a beagleboard
Apr 28 16:46:45 <mickeyl> i'm sure you can talk about it
Apr 28 16:46:49 <mickeyl> but it's very ambitious
Apr 28 16:46:51 <mickeyl> and frankly...
Apr 28 16:46:59 <mickeyl> work would be better invested in reinventing that
Apr 28 16:47:07 <mickeyl> since you will not be able to ship it legally anyways
Apr 28 16:47:34 <zsoc_wirc> right\n
Apr 28 16:47:37 <flare576> hrm
Apr 28 16:48:58 <mickeyl> given Palm's state you might be able to talk them into licensing it, if you are able to pay enough $$$
Apr 28 16:49:07 <flare576> Well, I'll poke around with it and see if I can figure something out: I just know I'd love a webos tablet, and so would a lot of people, but no one is taking up the task.
Apr 28 16:49:36 <flare576> heh, true, but I don't think "Hey, Palm, I got $20, what can I get" will get me very far :)
Apr 28 16:49:48 <mickeyl> yes, i was more thinking about a couple of zeros appended...
Apr 28 16:49:57 <mickeyl> webos may fly on a phone
Apr 28 16:50:08 <mickeyl> but don't let yourself be tricked it will work unmodified on a tablet
Apr 28 16:50:14 <mickeyl> you have to revisit the UI paradigms
Apr 28 16:50:15 <flare576> Can you imagine it on a snap dragon?
Apr 28 16:52:32 <flare576> In any case, it's probably way more than I can handle, but I'm interested enough to see what I can do; I've never tried low-level stuff before so it'll at least be a learning experience :)
Apr 28 16:53:13 <mickeyl> sure
Apr 28 16:53:16 <mickeyl> feel free to go for it
Apr 28 16:53:23 <mickeyl> my group is doing insane things as well
Apr 28 16:53:33 <mickeyl> slightly related to what you're doing, but the other way round :)
Apr 28 16:53:58 <flare576> hah
Apr 28 16:53:59 <mickeyl> like - using only the Palm Pre hardware with completely different software
Apr 28 16:54:25 <mickeyl> which is tough as well
Apr 28 16:54:30 <flare576> I wish yah luck :)  I use the Pre for WebOS, though, not the other way around
Apr 28 16:54:43 <flare576> but I LOVE seeing crazy stuff be done on devices
Apr 28 16:54:48 <mickeyl> hehe
Apr 28 16:55:32 <flare576> meetin' time, thanks for the info zsoc_wirc, mickeyl :)
Apr 28 16:55:50 <mickeyl> np
Apr 28 16:55:51 <mickeyl> cu
Apr 28 16:59:25 <zsoc_wirc> mickeyl: hows the fspo world going?
Apr 28 16:59:38 <mickeyl> good and bad
Apr 28 16:59:47 <mickeyl> good: have been adding support for the sensors
Apr 28 16:59:48 <mickeyl> ambient light
Apr 28 16:59:51 <mickeyl> proximty
Apr 28 16:59:53 <mickeyl> vibrator
Apr 28 16:59:58 <mickeyl> all easy and done now
Apr 28 17:00:01 <mickeyl> bad:
Apr 28 17:00:07 <mickeyl> showstoppers are still modem and touchscreen
Apr 28 17:00:10 <zsoc_wirc> cool cool\n
Apr 28 17:00:21 <mickeyl> touchscreen may have seen a breakthrough yesterday, as some guys found the bisplines
Apr 28 17:00:24 <zsoc_wirc> ah\n
Apr 28 17:00:44 <mickeyl> modem needs a couple of more manmonths intensive protocol reengineering
Apr 28 17:00:45 <zsoc_wirc> well that's good news
Apr 28 17:00:50 <mickeyl> yeah, all in all it's well
Apr 28 17:00:57 <mickeyl> let me get you a screeny
Apr 28 17:01:00 <mickeyl> people love screenshots...
Apr 28 17:01:17 <zsoc_wirc> haha yes
Apr 28 17:03:27 <mickeyl> http://www.linuxtogo.org/~mickeyl/palmpre/
Apr 28 17:04:14 <mickeyl> sorry, always the same screen, but... touchscreen is not there :)
Apr 28 17:05:35 <zsoc_wirc> mikewx: win
Apr 28 17:05:44 <zsoc_wirc> mickeyl: er.. win
Apr 28 17:05:49 <zsoc_wirc> mikewx: sry, mis tabbed
Apr 28 17:06:52 <mickeyl> once we figured out the touchscreen, we'll release a first demo image
Apr 28 17:07:08 <mickeyl> which at least makes calls
Apr 28 17:07:18 <halfhalo_T400> lies
Apr 28 17:07:30 <zsoc_wirc> does this OS run on other phones right now?
Apr 28 17:07:40 <mickeyl> well, it's linux
Apr 28 17:07:52 <zsoc_wirc> that's not what I asked lol
Apr 28 17:07:57 <mickeyl> it runs on Openmoko devices, on the HTC Dream, and some other HTC devices, and some OpenEZX devices
Apr 28 17:08:04 <mickeyl> in varying degrees of support, of course
Apr 28 17:08:09 <zsoc_wirc> ah ok, cool
Apr 28 17:08:11 <mickeyl> "thanks" to kernel and hardware issues
Apr 28 17:08:17 <zsoc_wirc> of course :)
Apr 28 17:08:25 <zsoc_wirc> is it uh.. good?
Apr 28 17:08:33 * halfhalo_T400 would look at the pictures but he has no bandwidths left in the tube
Apr 28 17:08:34 <zsoc_wirc> y'know, besides being libra
Apr 28 17:09:01 <mickeyl> hmm
Apr 28 17:09:05 <mickeyl> well
Apr 28 17:09:12 <mickeyl> basically what I'm working on is middleware
Apr 28 17:09:17 <mickeyl> and since middleware essentially is invisible
Apr 28 17:09:26 <mickeyl> i also work on a small self-contained demo app
Apr 28 17:09:34 <mickeyl> this is what you're seeing in the screenshot
Apr 28 17:09:44 <mickeyl> other people are working on "full" distros
Apr 28 17:09:54 <mickeyl> using my middleware
Apr 28 17:10:02 <mickeyl> which is cool as well
Apr 28 17:10:07 <mickeyl> but not what i'm using atm.
Apr 28 17:10:26 <mickeyl> so usability-wise, we're years behind either webos or android
Apr 28 17:10:33 <mickeyl> however, we're getting better very fast
Apr 28 17:10:37 <mickeyl> _and_ we are free :)
Apr 28 17:10:40 <mickeyl> (as in speech)
Apr 28 17:10:58 <mickeyl> dunno whether this answers your question ;)
Apr 28 17:12:26 <mickeyl> some people think all you need is an X server and then everything works
Apr 28 17:12:28 <mickeyl> but that's not it
Apr 28 17:12:31 <mickeyl> a phone is not a PC
Apr 28 17:12:39 <halfhalo_T400> lies
Apr 28 17:12:44 <halfhalo_T400> all lies!
Apr 28 17:13:01 <en0x> lol
Apr 28 17:13:34 <halfhalo_T400> phone almost dead
Apr 28 17:40:12 <Marajin_> mickey|sports: heh, been there, done that, thankless job isn't it?
Apr 28 19:38:45 <voltnine> quick question about the terminal app...
Apr 28 19:39:48 <voltnine> is the any workaround that would allow entering unsupported characters like []?
Apr 28 19:43:17 <zsoc_wirc> voltnine: sure, including their support
Apr 28 19:43:52 <zsoc_wirc> or you can probably enter them in machine code
Apr 28 19:44:06 <voltnine> ...
Apr 28 19:44:32 <voltnine> terminal isn't open sourced yet is it?
Apr 28 19:45:26 <voltnine> can't even paste them in?
Apr 28 19:46:43 <halfhalo> Machine code will BURN
Apr 28 19:47:42 <fpf_palmpre> GPL 2 v2 Open Source = Terminal
Apr 28 19:48:26 <voltnine> ooh. then i'll have to take a look.
Apr 28 19:48:57 <voltnine> half my strong passwords have crazy symbols.
Apr 28 19:49:14 <voltnine> can't ssh anywhere :/
Apr 28 20:01:26 <Lumiere> voltnine: make a ssh key?
Apr 28 20:02:06 <voltnine> that won't help me su
Apr 28 20:02:13 <Lumiere> lol
Apr 28 20:02:58 <zsoc_wirc> voltnine: terminal is in the webos internals git, contact the last few commiters if you have questions ;)
Apr 28 20:14:04 <voltnine> does destinal come through here still?
Apr 28 20:14:14 <oil> eventually
Apr 28 20:14:28 <voltnine> development seems to have stalled a long time ago.
Apr 28 20:14:43 <halfhalo> well then
Apr 28 20:14:50 <halfhalo> hp owns palm
Apr 28 20:14:58 <Lumiere> halfhalo: eh?
Apr 28 20:15:26 <bpadalino> http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/28/hp-buys-palm/
Apr 28 20:16:38 <voltnine> ha!
Apr 28 20:19:29 <jhowirc> hp acquires palm..
Apr 28 20:19:48 <lemketron> Yeah, I guess people can update the old "HP buys Compaq" joke now.  :-)
Apr 28 20:20:06 <jhowirc> congrats? =)
Apr 28 20:26:12 <Marajin_> hp bought palm?
Apr 28 20:26:14 <Marajin_> oh noes..
Apr 28 20:26:47 <twixt> not sure how i feel about this
Apr 28 20:27:07 <joshua> i think they are more likely to keep the brand and keep the technology going than some other buyers would have
Apr 28 20:27:26 <joshua> some people probably would have bought the company and just closed it so they can have the patent rights
Apr 28 20:27:38 <twixt> you think it'll say HP Palm on the back of new devices?
Apr 28 20:27:53 <zsoc_wirc> I like this. Palm + money
Apr 28 20:27:58 <joshua> do the compaq computrs say HP anywhere? heh
Apr 28 20:28:18 <zsoc_wirc> HP has a good track record of letting companies run.
Apr 28 20:28:34 <twixt> joshua: true
Apr 28 20:28:50 <twixt> guess the slate will be decent then
Apr 28 20:29:02 <joshua> they also can make some solid hardware. those calculators they made are built like tanks
Apr 28 20:29:17 <joshua> and the ipaq
Apr 28 20:29:25 <twixt> as long as they don't make them like their notebooks
Apr 28 20:29:31 <twixt> i've had nothing but problems with those
Apr 28 20:30:13 <voltnine> I have an hp mini 311 and I love it.
Apr 28 20:31:45 <Marajin_> TBH I'm not actually bothered
Apr 28 20:31:48 <Marajin_> I have a HP tablet PC
Apr 28 20:31:50 <Marajin_> it's not bad
Apr 28 20:31:54 <Marajin_> I've had iPaqs
Apr 28 20:31:59 <Marajin_> they were fine .. save the OS
Apr 28 20:32:02 <chrisa> afternoon
Apr 28 20:32:24 <Marajin_> So if they can take what palm started and give it the critical funding and business sense..
Apr 28 20:32:30 <Marajin_> yes, this might well be a good thing
Apr 28 20:33:47 <chrisa> HP has 125B in market capital
Apr 28 20:33:54 <chrisa> No matter what happens it's probably a good thing
Apr 28 20:34:45 <Marajin_> heh
Apr 28 20:40:00 <Mousey> HP huh
Apr 28 20:40:36 <ghost_of_zsoc> yep
Apr 28 20:40:52 <Mousey> ipkg returns full circle!
Apr 28 20:41:08 <EdLin> at least it wasn't Facebook, as some predicted. They'd have to name the new company FacePalm.
Apr 28 20:41:14 <ghost_of_zsoc> Mousey: ha! didn't think of that!
Apr 28 20:41:40 <EdLin> btw, HP also bought 3com, so now 3com and Palm are one again.
Apr 28 20:41:41 <ghost_of_zsoc> ...
Apr 28 20:41:53 <ghost_of_zsoc> ah, nice
Apr 28 20:42:07 <voltnine> circle of life.
Apr 28 20:42:19 <Mousey> lol
Apr 28 20:42:42 <Mousey> lol edlin
Apr 28 20:42:44 <Mousey> that takes me bac
Apr 28 20:42:45 <Mousey> k
Apr 28 20:43:04 <EdLin> somebody needs to make an HP theme for the Pre. :)
Apr 28 20:43:13 <Mousey> ...which makes HP next to fold =(
Apr 28 20:43:27 <Marajin_> EdLin: God know, the physical styling of my tablet PC is nice but the software theming?
Apr 28 20:43:30 * Marajin_ shudders.
Apr 28 20:43:32 <Marajin_> *God no
Apr 28 20:43:32 <idw2k|wirc> so, how long before the WebOS tablet is announced?
Apr 28 20:43:39 <voltnine> is there any plans for a gui ssh client?
Apr 28 20:43:39 <EdLin> Mousey: HP has a market cap of over 120B, they aren't going out of business.
Apr 28 20:44:04 <Mousey> they said that about goldman-sachs
Apr 28 20:44:05 <Mousey> =P
Apr 28 20:44:16 <voltnine> terminal + ssh is making me want to slit my own throat.
Apr 28 20:44:23 <Mousey> voltnine: here here
Apr 28 20:44:24 <EdLin> goldman-sachs is a gambling house, not a business.
Apr 28 20:44:40 <idw2k|wirc> goldman-sachs is bigger and more profitable than ever.
Apr 28 20:44:47 <idw2k|wirc> I think you meant lehman brothers
Apr 28 20:44:52 <EdLin> like many gambling houses.
Apr 28 20:44:55 <ghost_of_zsoc> Mousey: HP is not an investment company. they make _actual_ money
Apr 28 20:44:57 <idw2k|wirc> which is now gone
Apr 28 20:45:15 <Mousey> i know, i know, sheesh
Apr 28 20:45:19 <Mousey> i actually love their servers
Apr 28 20:45:29 <Mousey> ..too much
Apr 28 20:45:35 <Mousey> i'm not allowed near them anymore
Apr 28 20:45:39 <EdLin> lol
Apr 28 20:46:10 <EdLin> the servers were granted a restraining order
Apr 28 20:46:56 <Mousey> another guy here just got a pre (plus)
Apr 28 20:47:00 <Mousey> sent him blindly to preware.org
Apr 28 20:47:03 * Mousey rocks
Apr 28 20:47:18 <ghost_of_zsoc> nice
Apr 28 20:47:45 <voltnine> it's not as easy as it looks.
Apr 28 20:47:53 <Mousey> it never is
Apr 28 20:48:04 <voltnine> I still can't get tethering to work.
Apr 28 20:48:17 <Mousey> i keep forgetting to try
Apr 28 20:48:32 <jacques> so are the next webos devices going to have mirrored surfaces all over them like HP consumer laptops?
Apr 28 20:48:39 <voltnine> something on the windows end kills my netbook.
Apr 28 20:50:59 <Mousey> lol
Apr 28 20:51:09 <Mousey> jacques: hopefully this means the prepaq!
Apr 28 20:51:51 <Marajin_> Mousey: Please report to the firing squad at dawn tomorrow for that one
Apr 28 20:51:53 <idw2k|wirc> jacques: I imagine the next generation will be whatever is already in the pipeline. they wouldn't scrap it unless there were big problems
Apr 28 20:52:02 * Mousey baws
Apr 28 20:52:58 <jacques> if HP really means to continue with WebOS I'll be happy
Apr 28 20:54:00 <idw2k|wirc> if anything, I think HP means to expand WebOS
Apr 28 20:54:43 <jacques> I wanna see it on tablets
Apr 28 20:55:02 <idw2k|wirc> that's the logical step
Apr 28 20:55:46 <Marajin_> What the hell was it with Palm that made them sit there with PalmOS for so long?
Apr 28 20:56:00 <Marajin_> It was an archaic design before OS5
Apr 28 20:56:03 <Marajin_> nevermind 5.4
Apr 28 20:56:17 <Marajin_> and OS6? well.. No device /ever/ licenced OS6 that I'm aware of
Apr 28 20:56:46 <idw2k|wirc> same reason BlackberryOS is so archaic...huge installed base that doesn't want to change
Apr 28 20:57:03 <Marajin_> heh
Apr 28 20:57:14 <Marajin_> yes but what happened?
Apr 28 20:57:20 <Marajin_> PalmOS went 'wheeee **SPLAT**'
Apr 28 20:57:26 <bougyman> no it didn't
Apr 28 20:57:37 <Marajin_> then why was OS6 never licenced?
Apr 28 20:57:52 <Marajin_> even palmone never made an OS6 device
Apr 28 20:57:57 <bougyman> it went fizzle
Apr 28 20:58:05 <vmlemon_> They split themselves in two, and decided to license the PalmOS to others, before flailing around with Linux-based mobile phone "companions" that flopped, and then selling the PalmSource division to Access...
Apr 28 20:58:09 <chrisa> The less we talk about Palmone/PalmSource the better
Apr 28 20:58:36 <idontwan2know> indeed
Apr 28 20:58:43 <Marajin_> fair point, well made
Apr 28 20:58:49 <Marajin_> but yes.. WebOS..
Apr 28 20:59:03 <Marajin_> when I saw WebOS demo'd properly I thought.. '...they're back! Palm is back!'
Apr 28 20:59:27 <Marajin_> Then I saw some of the silly bits in it and thought '..yep, that proves it, palm is back' ;)
Apr 28 20:59:36 <joshua> rubinstein worked with HP before... didn't know that
Apr 28 21:00:36 <bpadalino> chrisa, i hope you palm guys get to do "life as usual" and stay on your course after the acquisition
Apr 28 21:00:37 <Tibfib> http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/28/hp-were-doubling-down-on-webos-palm-that-was-the-whole-po/ :D
Apr 28 21:00:37 <chrisa> I taped "HP" over a palm sign I had on the wall next to my desk
Apr 28 21:00:42 <chrisa> I expect that to be the only change I experience
Apr 28 21:01:14 <bpadalino> very nice to hear
Apr 28 21:02:07 <chrisa> Of course next week you may see me outside with a "Will break prototypes for food" sign
Apr 28 21:02:16 <idontwan2know> The possible synergy of a family of WebOS devices, including a tablet, is really exciting.
Apr 28 21:02:36 <joshua> they have a picture of the tablet right on one of the slides
Apr 28 21:02:41 <bpadalino> heh
Apr 28 21:02:46 <joshua> http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9NDMzNTB8Q2hpbGRJRD0tMXxUeXBlPTM=&t=1
Apr 28 21:03:10 <idontwan2know> conference call is starting now
Apr 28 21:03:19 <joshua> "platform for mobile could-based services"
Apr 28 21:07:22 <jhowirc> liveblog on precentral...
Apr 28 21:07:24 <idontwan2know> "additional mobile form factors"
Apr 28 21:08:48 <bpadalino> i wonder if they were talking about chrisa when they said "great engineering talent at palm" :P
Apr 28 21:09:13 <chrisa> I'm a good way of ensuring prototypes can withstand user abuse
Apr 28 21:09:16 <chrisa> Poor pixi graveyard
Apr 28 21:09:25 <joshua> I P freely
Apr 28 21:09:33 <jhowirc> scribble live works on the pre
Apr 28 21:09:42 <jhowirc> nice
Apr 28 21:09:45 * oil goes to bar chrisa frequents hoping to see new prototype left on table
Apr 28 21:09:55 * Mousey is still holding out for Dwarf Fortress on WebOS
Apr 28 21:10:08 <chrisa> hmmm if df ran on linux without wine I would look into that
Apr 28 21:10:16 <Mousey> it DOES
Apr 28 21:10:23 <chrisa> wait what
Apr 28 21:10:27 <chrisa> When did they release binaries?
Apr 28 21:11:34 <hemna> stoked about us buying Palm :)
Apr 28 21:11:35 <Mousey> http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/df_28_181_40d17_linux.tar.bz2
Apr 28 21:11:45 <oil> us? hemna works for hp?
Apr 28 21:11:45 <hemna> I need to switch projects once the acquisition is done :)
Apr 28 21:11:50 <hemna> oh..yah
Apr 28 21:11:52 <Mousey> hemna: you bought palm?!
Apr 28 21:11:58 <hemna> yah...some spare change
Apr 28 21:12:04 <bpadalino> ouch
Apr 28 21:12:05 <Mousey> dammit. i shoulda bid
Apr 28 21:12:34 <hemna> lots of folks here at work are now asking me about me Pre
Apr 28 21:12:40 <bpadalino> interesting
Apr 28 21:12:40 <Mousey> chrisa: yes, it's not .03, but thats the devel version anyway
Apr 28 21:12:40 * oil was hoping palm could make it on their own
Apr 28 21:12:53 <Mousey> ...which i happily run on wine
Apr 28 21:12:54 <Mousey> ^_^
Apr 28 21:12:58 <Mousey> ^-- me being happy
Apr 28 21:13:09 <Mousey> oil: me too
Apr 28 21:13:21 <Mousey> but i like HP a shitlot more than lenovo
Apr 28 21:13:23 <jhowirc> pres for all hp employees?
Apr 28 21:13:32 <Tibfib> oil: me too
Apr 28 21:13:51 <oil> jhowirc: and hemna to show them homebrew/webos-internals :)
Apr 28 21:13:57 <hemna> it'll be interesting to see what HP does with it
Apr 28 21:14:09 <hemna> I'd love to switch over and work on it
Apr 28 21:14:18 <Mousey> i'll put in a good word for you
Apr 28 21:14:29 <oil> oh picture of webos on a slate
Apr 28 21:14:30 <hemna> :)
Apr 28 21:14:33 <voltnine> njit
Apr 28 21:14:37 <oil> http://images.scribblelive.com/2010/4/28/f871ce42-8bed-4eac-a6ea-0f8a26cde5e3_400.jpg
Apr 28 21:14:50 <voltnine> I went there too.
Apr 28 21:14:56 <oil> looks kinda funky
Apr 28 21:15:19 <Mousey> haha yea!!
Apr 28 21:15:25 <idontwan2know> kinda looks sexy
Apr 28 21:15:32 <Mousey> i'd hit it
Apr 28 21:16:44 <jhowirc> oil: the orientation is wrong :) the card should be landscape too
Apr 28 21:16:49 <idontwan2know> I expect to see a huge influx of developers now
Apr 28 21:16:57 <oil> yeah, maybe thats why it looks weirc
Apr 28 21:17:03 <halfhalo_T400> I don;t think so bout devs
Apr 28 21:17:15 <halfhalo_T400> Not until the devices start hitting mainstream
Apr 28 21:18:04 <oil> according to dieter they can't stop talking about a tablet with webos
Apr 28 21:18:30 <idontwan2know> well, remember that WebOS apps are scalable resolution, so anything written for the current hardware should work on the tablets, etc.
Apr 28 21:19:14 <oil> vertically scaleable
Apr 28 21:19:17 <idontwan2know> there would need to be portrait and landscape scenes, obviously
Apr 28 21:19:20 <oil> id hate to see what they look like wider
Apr 28 21:21:33 <oil> so palm will be seperate
Apr 28 21:21:40 <idontwan2know> Palm will be it's own business unit
Apr 28 21:21:45 <idontwan2know> awesome
Apr 28 21:21:46 <oil> xD
Apr 28 21:22:34 <hemna> yah I imagine it'd be a subsidiary
Apr 28 21:22:52 <oil> so will the next phone still say palm on the back, or hp?
Apr 28 21:23:02 <Tibfib> hPalm
Apr 28 21:23:23 <RamsesFSFE> LOL
Apr 28 21:23:49 <Tibfib> err.... HPalm
Apr 28 21:24:21 <idontwan2know> Increased R&D budget, and much bigger sales and marketing budgets!
Apr 28 21:24:47 <idontwan2know> Kind of a no brainer, but still cool to hear.
Apr 28 21:25:08 <hemna> some big company had to buy Palm at this rate unfortunately.
Apr 28 21:26:21 <oil> well, it could be worse
Apr 28 21:26:29 <hemna> true
Apr 28 21:26:48 <idontwan2know> I don't think it's unfortunate at all
Apr 28 21:27:22 <Mousey> well HP is still a huge MS supporter
Apr 28 21:27:26 <idontwan2know> Much as I love WebOS, it wasn't going anywhere without significant new investment
Apr 28 21:27:41 <hemna> Mousey, yuh I know...it's a steep hill to climb here internally
Apr 28 21:27:59 <hemna> I'm the only linux guy on my dev team here
Apr 28 21:28:02 <idontwan2know> and it's hard to imagine a partner with more resources and reach than HP
Apr 28 21:28:16 <Mousey> hemna: well keep fighting the good fight!
Apr 28 21:28:20 <jhojho> webos on superdome =)
Apr 28 21:28:21 <Mousey> one person can make a difference! ^_^
Apr 28 21:28:39 <idontwan2know> Considering that some of us were rooting for Lenovo, HP is a dream come true.
Apr 28 21:28:41 <jacques> one person *can indeed* make a difference
Apr 28 21:28:49 <jhojho> jobs?
Apr 28 21:28:50 <hemna> I have opened a lot of eyes here to linux.  some are considering it.
Apr 28 21:28:58 <halfhalo_T400> Lenovo couldn't make palm succed like hp can
Apr 28 21:29:08 <Mousey> hemna: show 'em compi
Apr 28 21:29:09 <Mousey> z
Apr 28 21:29:12 <Mousey> hemna: show 'em compiz
Apr 28 21:29:18 <hemna> heh
Apr 28 21:29:29 <Kyusaku> HP advertising connections = good thing
Apr 28 21:29:38 <idontwan2know> halfhalo_T400: agreed, but the others mentioned were likely only after Palm for IP
Apr 28 21:29:41 <hemna> funny thing is....I have an ATI chipset on my laptop....
Apr 28 21:29:44 <hemna> it won't run compiz :(
Apr 28 21:29:48 <hemna> wah wah wah
Apr 28 21:29:54 <halfhalo_T400> HP, while I'm not a fan of their consumer devices, makes nice buisness stuff
Apr 28 21:29:55 <Mousey> time to req a new laptop! ^_^
Apr 28 21:30:03 <oil> oh, chrisa using wirc :)
Apr 28 21:30:06 <Marajin_> hemna: mmmm ATi on linux
Apr 28 21:30:08 <psykoz> Boo to HP :(
Apr 28 21:30:11 <Marajin_> the joy I had with that over the years
Apr 28 21:30:18 <Mousey> most ATI chips will run compiz. the real trick is getting direct rendering working at all to begin with
Apr 28 21:30:24 <Marajin_> yep
Apr 28 21:30:33 <hemna> it was a miracle to get my dual monitor setup working...but it does work.  just no compiz :(
Apr 28 21:30:48 <Mousey> ok, dual head AND compiz on ATI? now you're asking for a lot
Apr 28 21:30:59 <halfhalo_T400> I have dual monitor compiz working off my 3470...
Apr 28 21:31:32 <hemna> yah, I'm ok with at least having dual head
Apr 28 21:32:10 <Marajin_> Go mad, go for quadhead!
Apr 28 21:32:47 <idontwan2know> Now you're just getting crazy.
Apr 28 21:32:51 <hemna> I'm pretty happy with 3840 x 1200
Apr 28 21:32:56 * idontwan2know sedates Marajin
Apr 28 21:33:30 <halfhalo_T400> I just have my laptop running two 1440x900 in linux
Apr 28 21:34:21 <Marajin_> idontwan2know: aww..
Apr 28 21:34:47 <Marajin_> I'm british, I reserve the right to go bonkers
Apr 28 21:46:18 <flare576> So.... I guess i don't have to try to port WebOS to PC....
Apr 28 21:54:43 <hemna> :)
Apr 28 21:55:53 * jbrett sees hemna's ":)" and raises him a w00t ;)
Apr 28 22:05:49 <flare576> So, from what we know about the Linux behind the current webos, would a dual-booting tablet be feasible if someone wanted to run another OS beside our beloved WebOS?
Apr 28 22:06:06 <flare576> I have to imagine the answer is "obviously yes," but just for my sanity :)
Apr 28 22:07:02 <RamsesFSFE> flare576: If you are able to install a boot manager, why not?
Apr 28 22:07:12 <Mousey> yay grub
Apr 28 22:07:13 <RamsesFSFE> flare576: I run a Debian in a chroot. Works fine
Apr 28 22:07:29 <RamsesFSFE> Mousey: does grub work?
Apr 28 22:07:32 <flare576> I thought so, but that makes me happy
Apr 28 22:07:57 <Mousey> RamsesFSFE: in general? yes. on a tablet? unknown
Apr 28 22:08:24 <RamsesFSFE> Mousey: I know that it works in general. I use it every day ;-)
Apr 28 22:08:32 <Mousey> you reboot everyday?!
Apr 28 22:08:39 <jacques> I thought grub was x86-only
Apr 28 22:08:43 <Mousey> probably
Apr 28 22:08:58 <RamsesFSFE> Mousey: Sure. I turn my computer off when I go to bed. ;-)
Apr 28 22:09:18 <Mousey> what? weird
Apr 28 22:09:45 <RamsesFSFE> Mousey: no, energy efficient and environment friendly.
Apr 28 22:09:47 <flare576> Mousey: can't have it going sentient.
Apr 28 22:10:01 <Mousey> i for one welcome our new digital overlords
Apr 28 22:10:26 <flare576> hah.  Well, back to work for me.
Apr 28 22:10:31 <idw2k|wirc> quit sucking up, Mousey
Apr 28 22:10:51 <rwhitby> morning
Apr 28 22:11:37 <jacques> re rwhitby
Apr 28 22:11:52 <jacques> I guess you heard the news about HP buying Palm
Apr 28 22:13:44 <rwhitby> only just then from the backlog
Apr 28 22:13:50 <rwhitby> is it confirmed?
Apr 28 22:13:57 <bpadalino> indeed
Apr 28 22:13:58 <Tibfib> yep
Apr 28 22:14:07 <rwhitby> confirmed by Palm?
Apr 28 22:14:10 <bpadalino> yep
Apr 28 22:14:14 <rwhitby> URL?
Apr 28 22:14:18 <bpadalino> http://blog.palm.com/palm/2010/04/palm-and-hp.html
Apr 28 22:14:21 <Tibfib> precentral.net
Apr 28 22:14:24 <Tibfib> engadget.com
Apr 28 22:14:31 <Guest91529> the internet
Apr 28 22:14:37 <Guest91529> wtf im a guest
Apr 28 22:14:44 <Tibfib> twitter
Apr 28 22:15:37 <hemna> palm posted on facebook a bit ago
Apr 28 22:15:46 <rwhitby> cool.  hp-internals.* domains are available :)
Apr 28 22:16:48 <oil> well, unless they change the name of the os from webos, we're probably good :)
Apr 28 22:17:21 <jhowirc> hey chuqui and lemketron
Apr 28 22:17:28 <sethron|work> the PHP phone?
Apr 28 22:17:36 <zsoc> HP's stockholders slideshow basically says "WebOS is awesome and we want to make it go forward faster"
Apr 28 22:18:19 <Tibfib> sethron|work: the HPalm Pre
Apr 28 22:18:22 <hemna> sethron|work, sign me up.
Apr 28 22:18:30 <zsoc> HPre?
Apr 28 22:18:36 <Tibfib> HPixi
Apr 28 22:18:39 <hemna> we can't complete the acquisition fast enough :)
Apr 28 22:19:04 <chuqui> hey...
Apr 28 22:19:19 <halfhalo_T400> grrrr
Apr 28 22:19:22 <hemna> The transaction is expected to close during HP’s third fiscal quarter ending July 31, 2010.
Apr 28 22:19:53 * vmlemon_ predicts that they'll rebrand it to HP Mobile Platform for Linux(TM)
Apr 28 22:20:14 <oil> thats a horrible name
Apr 28 22:21:18 <hemna> I doubt they'll change the name
Apr 28 22:21:24 <hemna> WebOS is a really good one IMO
Apr 28 22:21:33 <jacques> I agree WebOS is a good name
Apr 28 22:21:50 <sethron|work> or maybe the PHP phone, for the dyslexic
Apr 28 22:21:57 <vmlemon_> PHPre!
Apr 28 22:22:03 <vmlemon_> HPre?
Apr 28 22:22:28 <joshua___> iPaq 2
Apr 28 22:23:18 <vmlemon_> PrePaq'd
Apr 28 22:24:25 <Mousey> is preload(8) a good idea for pre?
Apr 28 22:24:41 <zsoc> hm?
Apr 28 22:24:42 <SDP> just read in a NY Times article that HP bought 3COM too.  Let's bring back the "Pilot" name :)
Apr 28 22:24:51 <zsoc> SDP: yep :D
Apr 28 22:24:53 <Mousey> totally
Apr 28 22:25:00 <zsoc> the HP WebOS Pilot
Apr 28 22:25:01 <Mousey> because Palm Pilot doesn't sound phallic at ALL!
Apr 28 22:25:05 <rwhitby> so this HP news is only 2 hours old
Apr 28 22:25:10 <Mousey> basically
Apr 28 22:26:42 <jhowirc> previous.
Apr 28 22:27:01 <rwhitby> hp-webos.* is also available :)
Apr 28 22:27:12 <EvanDotPro> lol rwhitby
Apr 28 22:27:13 <jacques> interesting :-)
Apr 28 22:27:35 <rwhitby> and webos-slate.* :)
Apr 28 22:27:41 <LarrySteeze> yo
Apr 28 22:27:53 <LarrySteeze> what's up all
Apr 28 22:28:31 <zsoc> Palm bought HP
Apr 28 22:28:53 <sethron|work> rwhitby: you sure like the '-'
Apr 28 22:29:22 <LarrySteeze> i saw that
Apr 28 22:29:58 <rwhitby> sethron|work: hey, your old Pre is in pieces at the moment :)
Apr 28 22:29:59 <LarrySteeze> I'm wondering what, if any, effect it will have on the relationship we have with them
Apr 28 22:31:16 <tmzt_> gps?
Apr 28 22:31:18 <LarrySteeze> although to be honest, I'm incredibly excited at the prospect of a webos tablet...it's something I was hoping palm would do
Apr 28 22:31:46 <sethron|work> rwhitby: hope it's not like humpty dumpty
Apr 28 22:32:09 <LarrySteeze> people are blinded by the iPhone, but if a tablet came out soon enough, the strengths of the OS would certainly shine
Apr 28 22:32:37 <tmzt_> 17SAAB8DM:27 < Mousey> well HP is still a huge MS supporter
Apr 28 22:32:39 <rwhitby> sethron|work: it actaully still boots while mostly in pieces
Apr 28 22:32:53 * sethron|work ponders how cool it would be to run stellarium on a webOS tablet and look up at night
Apr 28 22:32:56 <tmzt_> isn't HTC the one that just paid to license some patents from Microsoft?
Apr 28 22:33:02 <EvanDotPro> you know what sucks? i missed the news so i didn't have a chance to sell my stock at $6+ :(
Apr 28 22:33:03 <hemna> yup
Apr 28 22:33:16 <LarrySteeze> I am disappointed though.  I was hoping to see palm to go it alone
Apr 28 22:33:30 <Mousey> tmzt_: no that was Google
Apr 28 22:33:32 <sethron|work> rwhitby: fascinating
Apr 28 22:33:50 <Mousey> LarrySteeze: that's been said a lot in here today
Apr 28 22:34:12 <LarrySteeze> I believe it
Apr 28 22:34:21 <rwhitby> sethron|work: with two out of four connectors disconnected, it still boots without the keyboard or camera board assembly connected
Apr 28 22:34:35 <LarrySteeze> but with a bigger company backing Palm, it may help with developer relations
Apr 28 22:34:50 <rwhitby> sethron|work: I'll probably put up some pics today
Apr 28 22:34:51 <LarrySteeze> and by developer, I don't really mean for the app catalog
Apr 28 22:35:07 <LarrySteeze> I mean more like...I want friggin google voice to be better.
Apr 28 22:35:49 <tmzt_> Mousey: was it? the reporting is wrong then
Apr 28 22:36:00 <Mousey> well i saw google
Apr 28 22:36:01 <halfhalo_T400> second shot at plus on sprint...
Apr 28 22:36:20 <tmzt_> it was for android devices (but not clear if the patents were supposed to be linux, ril or directly related to the android code base)
Apr 28 22:36:43 <Mousey> well knowing MS, that FUD's on purpose
Apr 28 22:37:03 <tmzt_> I guess the interesting thing here is we have three serious unix-based mobile os's (on phones)
Apr 28 22:37:10 <tmzt_> maybe four if nokia commits to theirs
Apr 28 22:37:18 <LarrySteeze> my other fear is that the OS may become more locked down
Apr 28 22:37:35 <Mousey> no maybe about it, Maemo is still a superior linux-based phone OS than all others
Apr 28 22:37:46 <tmzt_> mine is more of an assurance that the code remains proprietary, not that that was going to change anyway
Apr 28 22:37:52 <LarrySteeze> meaning eventually, we may be forced to custom roms instead of tweaks for some
Apr 28 22:38:05 <tmzt_> or then, maybe they could suprise us by opening a tiny bit of it
Apr 28 22:38:11 <Mousey> platforms that force custom roms rarely last.. apple notwithstanding
Apr 28 22:38:21 <tmzt_> of course that just leads down the android 1.5/1.6/aosp path
Apr 28 22:38:30 <LarrySteeze> you mean moving more towards an open-source approach?
Apr 28 22:38:32 <tmzt_> so I don't expect it to be available to anyone to license
Apr 28 22:38:34 <Mousey> hell even linksys and dlink are embracing the OEs and the tomatos and such
Apr 28 22:38:36 <hemna> I dunno.  HP sells a lot of linux hardware
Apr 28 22:38:55 <hemna> I don't see a reason they would start locking it down and stripping it
Apr 28 22:39:03 <Mousey> HP is a massively hugegantic linux sponsor
Apr 28 22:39:05 <tmzt_> well, HP/cpq/DEC were the ones with the first linux pda I think, sharp shortly after
Apr 28 22:39:10 <tmzt_> unless you count lineo
Apr 28 22:39:19 <joshua> http://hp.sourceforge.net/
Apr 28 22:39:38 <tmzt_> my favorite thing would be an upstream kernel that works on both omap and msm devices
Apr 28 22:39:46 <tmzt_> airlife is snapdragon based right?
Apr 28 22:39:56 <LarrySteeze> part of me wishes HTC would have been the buyer, if there had to be one...because they have such a strong hardware angle.  But my biggest fear with them would have been throwing webos away...they have a strong commitment to microsoft and google.
Apr 28 22:40:09 <tmzt_> nah, HTC would have used it to springboard Sense to an OS
Apr 28 22:40:18 <Mousey> well a commitment to google is at least in the general direction of linux
Apr 28 22:40:32 <LarrySteeze> If HTC bought it, I think it would have been for the patents
Apr 28 22:40:52 <tmzt_> so reports today that Google pulled the Nexus from vzw over customization issues
Apr 28 22:41:02 <tmzt_> at 1.2b?
Apr 28 22:41:13 <tmzt_> that seems high when they could settle with aapl for less
Apr 28 22:41:25 <tmzt_> 17SAAB8DM:27 < Mousey> well HP is still a huge MS supporter
Apr 28 22:41:35 <tmzt_> I just wish HTC would have stood up to the MS patent grab
Apr 28 22:41:44 <LarrySteeze> I hope HP doesn't try to jump on the widget bandwagon
Apr 28 22:41:53 <Mousey> HP is big enough to have a healthy internal schitzophrenia
Apr 28 22:42:07 <tmzt_> slate phone gps
Apr 28 22:42:10 <tmzt_> hmm
Apr 28 22:42:20 <Mousey> webos/ubuntu slate
Apr 28 22:42:21 <tmzt_> what's wrong with widgets?
Apr 28 22:42:46 <tmzt_> I'd still like to see chrome os though
Apr 28 22:43:00 <tmzt_> I guess that doesn't make sense in this climate
Apr 28 22:44:05 <sethron|work> rwhitby: hope to see some demented photos :)
Apr 28 22:44:22 <LarrySteeze> I relize HP is a huge ms supporter, but (at least in the US market), they haven't really done much with MS in the smartphone market
Apr 28 22:45:40 <jbrett> EvanDotPro: they announced after the markets closed.  You'll have a chance to sell tomorrow :)
Apr 28 22:46:26 <EvanDotPro> jbrett: oh nice i didn't pay attention to the times. i guess that makes sense, most (or all) takeovers are announced after closing.
Apr 28 22:46:29 <jbrett> LarrySteeze: every phone HP has made has been a wimo/wince device, what do you mean?
Apr 28 22:47:11 <tmzt_> when's the last phone they made?
Apr 28 22:47:53 <jbrett> the 910 IIRC.  Sometime late last year?
Apr 28 22:47:57 <tmzt_> of course it's interesting to see what HP was saying about consumer earlier today
Apr 28 22:48:01 <tmzt_> before the announcement
Apr 28 22:48:26 <tmzt_> and noticing that HP and Dell are both treating it as a sort of undesirable segment at present, with hopes of changing that
Apr 28 22:48:53 <hemna> the iPaq was the last HP phone afaik.
Apr 28 23:04:01 <tmzt_> so Apple blocks third party dev environments from targeting it's devices, webkit starts to become a lowest common denominator for mobile applications, but without a packaging solution for offline
Apr 28 23:04:45 <tmzt_> and handset makers actually move closer to first party OSs and fragmentation across form factors
Apr 28 23:05:13 <tmzt_> which the Android meme seemed to be contradicting
Apr 28 23:06:38 <tmzt_> this also leaves the question of what HP will do about x86-based mobile devices, such as the 'lauded' slate
Apr 28 23:07:31 <dgathright> I think HP, who up until the now the biggest name in Windows tablets, paying $1.2 billion to ditch Windows is a pretty bad sign for MS tablets.
Apr 28 23:08:06 <tmzt_> if they were serious about Windows tablet they'd buy motion anyway
Apr 28 23:08:30 <tmzt_> first big OEM to do so wins that segment, though toshiba could make a play with toughbooks, and Lenovo of course
Apr 28 23:08:31 <hemna> even better.
Apr 28 23:08:56 <tmzt_> hemna: I'd love to see what they could do with arm hardware
Apr 28 23:09:06 <tmzt_> once the dropped iPads start piling up
Apr 28 23:19:45 <PuffTheMagic> tmzt_: webOS can run on the Slate
Apr 28 23:20:00 <PuffTheMagic> webOS does not need arm hw
Apr 28 23:20:19 <PuffTheMagic> tmzt_: in fact, webOS WILL run on the Slate
Apr 28 23:20:41 <PuffTheMagic> i would bet money on it
Apr 28 23:22:10 <jhowirc> webos already runs on the emulator which is x86
Apr 28 23:25:30 <tmzt_> right, I'm aware
Apr 28 23:35:49 <oil> oh, video youtube controls changed
Apr 28 23:36:25 <Mousey> we still gettin' flash right?
Apr 28 23:40:20 * oil wonders what that gray cable is nt4cats has coming out of his pre
Apr 28 23:41:01 * zsoc notices nt4cats is not here
Apr 28 23:41:12 * oil didn't
Apr 28 23:41:51 * zsoc wonders why oil doesn't nt<tab>
Apr 28 23:41:59 * oil typed it out
Apr 28 23:42:02 * zsoc doesn't type out anyone's name, not even oil
Apr 28 23:42:09 * oil types short names
Apr 28 23:42:15 <oil> like i never type puffs nick
Apr 28 23:42:16 * zsoc realizes o-i-l is probably faster than o-i-<tab>
Apr 28 23:42:37 <tmzt_> cable?
Apr 28 23:42:44 <halfhalo_T400_> monkey?
Apr 28 23:42:58 <oil> maybe it was just audio
Apr 28 23:49:49 <Abyssul> Hey
Apr 28 23:50:02 <oil> hey
Apr 28 23:50:09 <zsoc> hey hey hey
Apr 28 23:51:19 * rwhitby listens to PalmCast ....
Apr 28 23:51:42 <Abyssul> Wish there was a way install patches where the file is on ur phone
Apr 28 23:52:17 <LarrySteeze> sorry,  was afk
Apr 28 23:53:11 <LarrySteeze> I know every phone HP has made has used windows mobile....but my point was that HP hasn't exactly gained much market share...or put out many mobile phones
Apr 28 23:54:42 <Abyssul> Too bad we won't see the result of the merge til like the end of the year
Apr 28 23:55:10 <LarrySteeze> yeah...
Apr 28 23:55:33 <LarrySteeze> but above all...I just want a webos tablet.  AND I don't want to wait until the end of the year for it
Apr 28 23:55:54 <Abyssul> Prob at the end of the year to tell the truth
Apr 28 23:56:08 <bpadalino> i think the results of the merger will be apparent relatively quickly .. in terms of developers coming aboard and investing time with an HP backing versus just Palm
Apr 28 23:56:10 * halfhalo_T400_ gives up in the palmcast chat
Apr 28 23:57:01 <Abyssul> We are thinking of hardware though
Apr 28 23:59:18 <bpadalino> oh
Apr 29 00:05:08 <Abyssul> My Pre decided to shut off... Uber-kernel ftw?
Apr 29 00:09:14 <tmzt_> The thing that surprises me most about the Palm purchase is that the rumor mill in Silicon Valley said HP was moving away from differentiation in PCs. The company has laid off many of the Apple refugees who had come in to help run the PC business, and the quirky advertising seems to have faded into the background.
Apr 29 00:09:24 <tmzt_> http://mobileopportunity.blogspot.com/2010/04/quick-thoughts-on-palm-and-hp.html
Apr 29 00:09:44 <tmzt_> hmm, if those ads had actually had a chance of being for a real product (when they were made) it might have worked
Apr 29 00:10:08 <tmzt_> but it reality they were just for Windows computers that really couldn't do any of the things depicted
Apr 29 00:10:26 <tmzt_> this is in stark contrast to the iPhone ads that showed what the device really was and what it could do
Apr 29 00:11:08 <psykoz> HP is where products go to die unfortunately
Apr 29 00:11:17 <tmzt_> maybe now a multitouch interface that emulates the "movie os" from the celebrity ads can be built and sold exclusively on HP computers, from phones to 31" integrated workstations
Apr 29 00:11:37 <tmzt_> next up, a webcam gestures play
Apr 29 00:11:59 <tmzt_> a docking/syncing center for the cloud, otherwise much like iTunes
Apr 29 00:12:32 <tmzt_> what about clearcube/pcoip type vm that can be pushed out to 3g/4g tablets?
Apr 29 00:14:19 <tmzt_> ah cute, a month after I tried to create a new 2.0 site in google docs they add css support
Apr 29 00:31:01 <jhojho> vzw 1.4.1.x? is out apparently. but I dont see it
Apr 29 00:31:28 <jhojho> false alarm by dieter
Apr 29 00:31:51 <Lumiere> jhojho: sounded like thursday release
Apr 29 00:32:53 <senor_goose> Hi All
Apr 29 00:33:53 <sbromwich> groeten
Apr 29 00:33:58 <senor_goose> Anyone have issues with the Virtual Keyboard patch? The space key does not work for me
Apr 29 00:34:33 <sbromwich> not I, but I suspect that may be related to not using the virtual keyboard patch ;-)
Apr 29 00:35:06 <senor_goose> So you don't use the virtual keyboard then?
Apr 29 00:36:21 <sbromwich> nup
Apr 29 00:36:27 <jhojho> sbromwich: have you experimented with vm.swappiness on the pre at all?
Apr 29 00:36:30 <sbromwich> I use the slidy outy keyboard
Apr 29 00:36:38 <sbromwich> jhojho: in terms of...?
Apr 29 00:37:16 <jhojho> vm.swappiness = 0
Apr 29 00:37:34 <uNiXpSyChO> boooooo
Apr 29 00:37:36 <sbromwich> ahhhhh... no
Apr 29 00:37:51 <sbromwich> I played with... something I have drunk too much alcohol to recall
Apr 29 00:37:59 <sbromwich> laptop_mode?
Apr 29 00:39:53 <uNiXpSyChO> vm.swappiness  caused some bad pauses for me a while back.
Apr 29 00:40:10 <jhojho> what is the lunasysmgr log again?
Apr 29 00:40:11 <sbromwich> reduce... uh...
Apr 29 00:40:19 <sbromwich> I can't remember
Apr 29 00:40:23 <sbromwich> <-- has nothing for you
Apr 29 00:41:31 <jhojho> anyone else?
Apr 29 00:44:37 <jhojho> doh
Apr 29 00:44:55 <jhojho>   /var/log/lunasysmgr.log
Apr 29 01:05:57 <raster> hpos
Apr 29 01:05:59 <raster> burrp
Apr 29 01:06:07 <zsoc> jdos!
Apr 29 01:06:12 <zsoc> lkop
Apr 29 01:06:25 <sbromwich> ldir
Apr 29 01:22:43 <jhojho> grr. hit option-q instead of option w
Apr 29 01:36:59 <zsoc> preoccupied: play button is a little small :)
Apr 29 01:37:33 <zsoc> preoccupied: actually they all need to be normalized... record is a little too small, stop is a little to big, play is a lot too small lol
Apr 29 01:38:09 <zsoc> preoccupied: one last bug really got my goat, and then i just gotta add a support scene that forward to your wonderful wiki article, and beta is upon us
Apr 29 01:42:17 <preoccupied> zsoc: ok, haha
Apr 29 01:42:33 <preoccupied> zsoc: do you want me to adjust the sizes or you want to take care of that
Apr 29 01:42:49 <zsoc> preoccupied: if you have the time it would be great. just put them all side be side and adjust them to what looks right :)
Apr 29 01:44:02 <preoccupied> zsoc: haha, alright
Apr 29 01:45:13 <jhojho> okay. anyone want to try out some vm.swappiness settings for me to see how the phone reacts?
Apr 29 01:45:27 <zsoc> i'm not sure what that means
Apr 29 01:45:46 <jhojho> phone defaults to 60
Apr 29 01:45:56 <jhojho> setting mine to 10 seems to make things smoother
Apr 29 01:46:03 <jhojho> want to see if that is the case for others.
Apr 29 01:46:13 <jhojho> do this as root. echo 10 > /proc/sys/vm/swappiness
Apr 29 01:46:32 <jhojho> open up the launcher and anything else that you can scroll with.
Apr 29 01:46:47 <jhojho> see if it stutters/hesitates
Apr 29 01:47:03 <zsoc> lowering the swap value makes things /smoother/?
Apr 29 01:47:05 <zsoc> that doesn't seem right
Apr 29 01:49:04 <uNiXpSyChO> o agree
Apr 29 01:49:06 <uNiXpSyChO> i
Apr 29 01:49:25 <uNiXpSyChO> for me it was fine until something swapped and a huge pause happened
Apr 29 01:49:35 <jhojho> i've only done limited testing.
Apr 29 01:52:57 <jhojho> iirc there was some email traffic a while ago that the act of swapping was more painful than just leaving things in mem but I could be wrong...
Apr 29 02:06:58 <jhojho> this is an old link... see comments http://kerneltrap.org/node/3000
Apr 29 02:22:26 <preoccupied> zsoc: i've resized and sent...I'm not sure if they're too small tho
Apr 29 02:22:37 <preoccupied> zsoc: i adjusted everything to the size of hte record button
Apr 29 02:22:51 <zsoc> preoccupied: so the stop button got smaller and the play button got bigger?
Apr 29 02:24:19 <preoccupied> zsoc: i found a new stop button, the old one looked like crap
Apr 29 02:24:38 <preoccupied> zsoc: but yeah, i adjusted the new one to the size of hte record button
Apr 29 02:26:09 <zsoc> preoccupied: absofrickin' perfect
Apr 29 02:26:19 <pslag1> Hi... can someone direct me to an explanation of following entries in messages?
Apr 29 02:26:23 <pslag1> kern.warning kernel:... Syncing filesystems ... skipped for target platform ... done.
Apr 29 02:26:57 <pslag1> Seems to correlate to unexplained jumps in load avg at times when phone is basically idle.
Apr 29 02:27:01 <zsoc> pslag1: it successfully /didn't/ sync filesystems
Apr 29 02:28:08 <jhojho> this is new. googling for fsync shows a code snippet in results. http://www.google.com/search?q=fsync&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
Apr 29 02:28:13 <jhojho> never seen that before
Apr 29 02:28:31 <preoccupied> zsoc: that's great. release tonight?
Apr 29 02:29:33 <zsoc> preoccupied: hmm.. let me see if i did enough to warrant a release lol.
Apr 29 02:30:06 <preoccupied> zsoc: oh btw, i had a really weird bug last night. not sure if it's related to my installation / removal problems. Last night no audio was coming out of my speakers after I played around with precorder
Apr 29 02:30:21 <preoccupied> zsoc: No music or system sounds would play
Apr 29 02:30:21 <zsoc> preoccupied: i'm not sure precorder can cause that.
Apr 29 02:30:27 <zsoc> preoccupied: sounds like the headset bug
Apr 29 02:30:29 <preoccupied> zsoc: they would work over the headset
Apr 29 02:30:43 <preoccupied> zsoc: nope. for example, the alarm clock works even when the headset is plugged in
Apr 29 02:30:58 <zsoc> preoccupied: it works now tho?
Apr 29 02:30:58 <preoccupied> zsoc: but it wasn't working last night
Apr 29 02:31:04 <cphelps> rwhitby: wow, there are a whole lotta folks hanging around in your joint nowdays.
Apr 29 02:31:12 <preoccupied> zsoc: yeah...the only way i got it to work was by running the interative audio test
Apr 29 02:31:15 <zsoc> cphelps: there are usually more
Apr 29 02:31:24 <preoccupied> s/interative/interactive
Apr 29 02:31:35 <zsoc> preoccupied: odd, i'll keep that in mind. next time it happens try 'stop mediaserver; start mediaserver'
Apr 29 02:31:38 <cphelps> zsoc: last time I was in, it was ops only
Apr 29 02:31:41 <zsoc> preoccupied: also let me know if you can repeat it
Apr 29 02:31:56 <zsoc> cphelps: welcome back ^_^
Apr 29 02:32:14 <preoccupied> zsoc: ok. i think it might be the whole upgrading while running and having difficulty stoping precorder
Apr 29 02:32:19 <cphelps> zsoc: The HP news is invigorating
Apr 29 02:32:31 <rwhitby> cphelps: hey, long time no see
Apr 29 02:32:33 <zsoc> cphelps: i agree, just wait ;)
Apr 29 02:32:34 <preoccupied> zsoc: and also, it persisted after multipe reboots, which was really weird.
Apr 29 02:32:46 <zsoc> preoccupied: well that's not weird if it's the headset bug :p
Apr 29 02:32:54 <preoccupied> zsoc: was about to doctor, and decided to try the interactive tests to make sure it wasn't a hardware thing
Apr 29 02:33:03 <rwhitby> zsoc: look in the netstatd postinst for how to make sure something is killed
Apr 29 02:33:07 <zsoc> preoccupied: the headset bug is software imo, er, low level software.
Apr 29 02:33:13 <zsoc> rwhitby: i fixed it finally, but thank you
Apr 29 02:33:13 <cphelps> zsoc: waiting isn't my thing. I was hoping for a palm pad, now we're going to get an HP pad!
Apr 29 02:33:56 <cphelps> rwhitby: I've had some personal turmoil over choosing between Android and WebOS as a dev platform.
Apr 29 02:34:03 <preoccupied> zsoc: yeah, i understand. the weirdest thing i've ever seen. I just know it wasn't the headset becuase even with the headset in, you get a woosh when you close cards.
Apr 29 02:34:09 <preoccupied> zsoc: which wasn't happening last night either
Apr 29 02:34:16 <cphelps> rwhitby: not because I don't like webOS a whole shit-ton more, but simply as a business case
Apr 29 02:34:32 <rwhitby> cphelps: nod
Apr 29 02:34:55 <cphelps> rwhitby: It
Apr 29 02:35:01 <cphelps> rwhitby: it
Apr 29 02:35:04 <cphelps> damnit
Apr 29 02:35:06 <zsoc> preoccupied: anyway, since 0.5.7 i've fixed the postinst for upgraders like you, reworked the position timer into seconds (also it doesn't lag as often/as bad), and your button updates... so might be enough
Apr 29 02:35:22 <zsoc> ... wha
Apr 29 02:35:37 <cphelps> rwhitby: It is a tough call. What I really want to do is start a mobile dev company that can target all platforms, but I just don't have the contacts for that.
Apr 29 02:35:51 <zsoc> cphelps: i'm in the same boat i think
Apr 29 02:35:52 <preoccupied> zsoc: ok, i think that's a pretty good list. i'll test the update again if you'd like :)
Apr 29 02:36:04 <cphelps> zsoc: where do you live?
Apr 29 02:36:08 <zsoc> preoccupied: give be 10 minutes for the builds and another 10 for the autobuilder to package
Apr 29 02:36:13 <zsoc> cphelps: EST
Apr 29 02:36:18 <PreGame-> is it recommened to overclock to 800?
Apr 29 02:36:33 <zsoc> PreGame-: I suggest it :> recommended is a funny word tho.
Apr 29 02:36:43 <zsoc> I can't live without it now.
Apr 29 02:36:51 <PreGame-> has anyone heard of anything bad happening after the overclock?
Apr 29 02:37:01 <zsoc> it would be like not having brightness or flashlight in my device menu
Apr 29 02:37:13 <pslag1> zsoc: sorry to be dense, but what filesystem would it be trying to sync?
Apr 29 02:37:20 <cphelps> PreGame-: it runs awesome, but I had some issues with notifications and I think it broke tethering.
Apr 29 02:37:29 <pslag1> and have others seen it persist for quite a while?  as in an hour or so?
Apr 29 02:37:47 <PreGame-> what kind of notification issues?
Apr 29 02:38:04 <zsoc> pslag1: i was making a jest based on the error verbiage ;) I'm not the one to ask honestly... maybe sbrom'll take a stab
Apr 29 02:38:25 <pslag1> zsoc: ahh, sorry! :)
Apr 29 02:38:26 <zsoc> cphelps: Which kernel? Uber-Kernle + Govnah has no such issues
Apr 29 02:38:28 <cphelps> PreGame-: It didn't tell me when I had missed calls
Apr 29 02:38:29 <PreGame-> cphelps: what tethering do you use?
Apr 29 02:38:43 <cphelps> PreGame-: Paid mytether.
Apr 29 02:38:47 <PreGame-> ahh
Apr 29 02:38:55 <PreGame-> anyone else have notification issues?
Apr 29 02:39:04 <jhojho> it's a known issue
Apr 29 02:39:17 <PreGame-> in general or just with the overclock?
Apr 29 02:39:20 <cphelps> PreGame-: I actually just use it to connect my work computer to a wifi so I can get around our ridiculously restrictive firewall.
Apr 29 02:39:30 <zsoc> PreGame-: notification issues are caused my lack of memory auto killing phone/messaging processes (or so we're guessing)
Apr 29 02:39:52 <jhojho> for people having notification issues, do you have preware / preware alpha installed? if so, which one?
Apr 29 02:40:13 <jhojho> PreGame-: seems to happen to people with both standard and overclocked
Apr 29 02:40:17 <cphelps> zsoc: but why is that different than normal operation?
Apr 29 02:40:25 <pslag1> my notification workaround is a cron job that runs luna-send to check running apps, and restart as necessary.
Apr 29 02:40:42 <cphelps> jhojho: I'm on regular Preware.
Apr 29 02:41:30 <cphelps> zsoc: I was running the Uber kernel and Govnah when I had notification issues.
Apr 29 02:41:57 <cphelps> I never ran the other kernel options for more than idle curiousity, so I don't know if they had similar issues on my phone or not.
Apr 29 02:42:11 <zsoc> cphelps: it's likely coincidence. I had the same issues on 1.4 before I overclocked. It's caused by extensive use, generally homebrew but not always
Apr 29 02:42:20 <jhojho> cphelps: did you stop having notification issues once you switch back to a standard kernel?
Apr 29 02:42:29 * oil always blames patches
Apr 29 02:42:31 <PreGame-> dammit
Apr 29 02:42:35 <jhojho> lol oil
Apr 29 02:42:36 <cphelps> jhojho: yeah :-(
Apr 29 02:42:49 <cphelps> jhojho: it'
Apr 29 02:42:58 <PreGame-> this always happens when i hit the power button to turn on the pre and slide the lock it disappears but it doesn't unlock the phone.  then after 30 seconds it reboots
Apr 29 02:42:59 <sbromwich> cphelps: were you running ondemand governor?
Apr 29 02:43:10 <jhojho> anyone else want to chime in? notification issues with a standard kernel?
Apr 29 02:43:11 <cphelps> jhojho: it is easy for me to test, as I have a Samsung Moment with Android 2.1 :-)
Apr 29 02:43:22 <cphelps> jhojho: I just call myself to pretend like someone cares
Apr 29 02:43:27 <jhojho> lol
Apr 29 02:43:56 <cphelps> jhojho: The moment is a killer phone in comparison to everything but the pre
Apr 29 02:43:58 <cphelps> at least with 2.1
Apr 29 02:44:17 <jhojho> yeah, what sbromwich said. standard kernel with standard userspace or something else.
Apr 29 02:44:18 <zsoc> i felt the moment was sluggish at times for me, but i like it
Apr 29 02:44:20 <jhojho> ?
Apr 29 02:44:32 <sbromwich> notification issues usually occur because the pre is running ondemand kernel and goes out of sync with the dsp (and thus, I assume, the modem) and thereby loses sync with the carrier
Apr 29 02:44:39 <sbromwich> that's my understanding, anyway
Apr 29 02:44:59 <cphelps> zsoc: about the same as 500 on the Pre
Apr 29 02:45:08 <cphelps> zsoc: not as fast as 800 for sure
Apr 29 02:45:18 <sbromwich> easier to run something that locks to a specific frequency like psychogov, performance or conservative governors
Apr 29 02:45:28 <jhojho> sbromwich: has it been quantified that it's ondemand causing issues?
Apr 29 02:45:30 <cphelps> jhojho: I was using the ondemand governor
Apr 29 02:45:34 <zsoc> cphelps: i agree :)
Apr 29 02:45:42 <jhojho> cphelps: on standard or overclocked kernel?
Apr 29 02:45:57 <sbromwich> jhojho: quantified enough for me, plug in an external speaker, ramp up the volume on the speaker, then enable ondemand
Apr 29 02:45:58 <cphelps> jhojho: uberkernel @ 800 max
Apr 29 02:46:06 <pslag1> sbrom: my notification issues have been that the com.palm.app.messaging (and/or .phone) have died. (uber on conservative)
Apr 29 02:46:14 <jhojho> sbromwich: conservative governor still can switch freqs....
Apr 29 02:46:18 <zsoc> sbromwich: i agree with pslag
Apr 29 02:46:37 <cphelps> pslag1: that was my assumption as well, except that instead of died, I assumed someone shut them down
Apr 29 02:46:40 <sbromwich> jhojho: not as often as ondemand, conservative is usually only intermittent
Apr 29 02:46:50 <sbromwich> jhojho: I run performance myself
Apr 29 02:47:04 <jhojho> so does anyone with a standard kernel using the userspace governor, no frequency hopping see notification issues?
Apr 29 02:47:04 <cphelps> sbromwich: and that fixes notification issues?
Apr 29 02:47:15 <jhojho> sbromwich: performance gov makes my phone hot
Apr 29 02:47:28 <sbromwich> pslag1: you may be getting sig11 errors due to your phone not being able to run at 800MHz
Apr 29 02:47:35 <cphelps> jhojho: mine works perfectly with the original kernel back in place
Apr 29 02:47:49 <sbromwich> cphelps: I do not own your phone, I do not know what will fix your issues, I can only tell you my own experiences
Apr 29 02:48:01 <sbromwich> jhojho: www.fop.ns.ca/pre/pt/pt.pl
Apr 29 02:48:04 <pslag1> sbromwich: are those logged?  (sig11)
Apr 29 02:48:06 <sbromwich> rey thT
Apr 29 02:48:08 <cphelps> sbromwich: that's what I was asking :-)
Apr 29 02:48:19 <sbromwich> pslag1: look in /var/log
Apr 29 02:48:39 <cphelps> sbromwich: ie for you, did the performance setting fix the notification problems.
Apr 29 02:48:51 * zsoc likes this type of conversation in here
Apr 29 02:49:12 <sbromwich> cphelps: yes
Apr 29 02:49:25 <pslag1> sbromwich: I don't seem to have issues at 800,  And 'egrep -i sig11 /var/log/*' and 'gunzip -c /var/log/*.gz | egrep -i sig11' find nil
Apr 29 02:49:36 <sbromwich> cphelps: also I wrote my own power manager that locked the frequency
Apr 29 02:49:51 <cphelps> sbromwich: interesting. I guess I need to learn more about the governor system.
Apr 29 02:50:25 <jhojho> pslag1:  try looking in /var/log/lunasysmgr.log
Apr 29 02:50:44 <sbromwich> pslag: /var/log/java-0.log and friends is probably where errors would be logged if it's java
Apr 29 02:51:18 <sbromwich> cphelps: the ondemand governor is great for laptops, not so great for the phone architecture
Apr 29 02:51:22 <pslag1> jhojho: I looked in all files in /var/log... compressed or not.
Apr 29 02:51:50 <pslag1> duh... signal 11, not sig 11
Apr 29 02:52:03 <cphelps> sbromwich: any other info you'd like to share? I left active linux development about 8 years ago, so I'm not exactly plugged into that sort of stuff.
Apr 29 02:52:40 <sbromwich> cphelps: me too, I'm only getting back into it with the pre
Apr 29 02:53:10 <cphelps> sbromwich: it's the platform to do it on, although I have some complaints about their java situation
Apr 29 02:53:29 <jhojho> well that's going away
Apr 29 02:53:41 <cphelps> jhojho: services are one thing
Apr 29 02:54:06 <cphelps> jhojho: you can't have a tablet that doesn't have a full jvm and the ability to run random java apps
Apr 29 02:54:13 <sbromwich> cphelps: there's fixes for that, you can up the memory allocation and gc type in /usr/bin/java-serviceboot
Apr 29 02:54:39 <zsoc> cphelps: why java when you can have flash/gles/html5?
Apr 29 02:55:01 <cphelps> zsoc: I've been writing java for 8 years, 10 hours a day
Apr 29 02:55:22 <cphelps> zsoc: I like java ui development, it might be 'my thing' as it were
Apr 29 02:55:28 <sbromwich> cphelps: someone has to.
Apr 29 02:55:32 <zsoc> cphelps: i'm not saying what you do/have done is obsolete, but i'm past the point of 'missing' java support, and now i'm at the point i'm glad to watch it go
Apr 29 02:56:15 <RagingMind> why does the pre's network connection depend on java?
Apr 29 02:56:41 <sbromwich> RagingMind: it does?
Apr 29 02:56:59 <cphelps> zsoc: I also wrote C on the GTK framework and GNOME for years before that, so it doesn't bother me that much
Apr 29 02:57:08 <cphelps> zsoc: but I like a well defined framework
Apr 29 02:57:09 <RagingMind> every time I install something and it says java has to restart it warns that my network connections will go down
Apr 29 02:57:20 <pslag1> sbromwich: one sig11 earlier today.  no timestamp in file, but last written = 11:24.
Apr 29 02:57:27 <zsoc> cphelps: mojo is sorta fun, and now with SDL it's a new dimension
Apr 29 02:57:41 <zsoc> RagingMind: that will go away eventually.
Apr 29 02:57:53 <RagingMind> java or the restarting?
Apr 29 02:57:57 <pslag1> sbromwich: I can re-create by using Preware-alpha, hitting 'Later', then watch messaging and phone die.
Apr 29 02:57:57 <bpadalino> yeah, something about the telephony layer going down
Apr 29 02:58:01 <sbromwich> RagingMind: that's because all your network connections running under java were set up by java, anything else (eg: ssh) is fine
Apr 29 02:58:04 <RagingMind> it just seems like a super weird thing to me
Apr 29 02:58:07 <zsoc> RagingMind: java. palm said so in their dev days presentation about new service middleware
Apr 29 02:58:10 <cphelps> zsoc: I am an applications developer, so the 3D thing doesn't turn me on for my personal dev projects
Apr 29 02:58:18 <sbromwich> pslag1: sounds like your pre isn't in its happy place then
Apr 29 02:58:22 <zsoc> cphelps: SDL != 3D
Apr 29 02:59:04 <cphelps> zsoc: I remember compiling SDL from scratch in about '99. I know exactly what it is.
Apr 29 02:59:08 <zsoc> preoccupied: builds in 8 minutes, let me know how the upgrade goes plz
Apr 29 02:59:11 <pslag1> sbromwich: it should be fairly clean.  DR'd, then installed Uber.  But quite a few patches.  Damn patches.  :-)
Apr 29 02:59:18 <zsoc> cphelps: ok then :) i will digress to my elder
Apr 29 02:59:38 <cphelps> zsoc: I'm probably not your elder unless you're a real youngin'
Apr 29 02:59:43 <sbromwich> pslag1: run powertop from a terminal
Apr 29 02:59:50 <zsoc> cphelps: if you did /anything/ in 99, you're my elder lol
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Apr 29 02:59:56 2010