**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun May 23 02:59:57 2010
May 23 03:01:48 <laknbawill> ok, im running repair utility...thanks for your help
May 23 03:01:53 <laknbawill> i really appreciate it
May 23 03:18:42 <dtzWill> jacques: i told you xorg-server/other GLES apps all would fail hours ago haha
May 23 03:19:09 <dtzWill> anyway yeah they fail
May 23 03:19:12 <dtzWill> and we need those headers
May 23 03:19:15 <PrimerFender> laknbawill: http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=WebOS+Repair+Utility ;-)
May 23 03:19:31 <dtzWill> i really don't see it as fault in xorg/other apps, i mean we should be able to build GLES apps...
May 23 03:19:44 <bpadalino> i wonder why the header isn't there
May 23 03:24:37 <dtzWill> yeah that's lame
May 23 03:24:51 <bpadalino> looks like it's an SGI header as well ..
May 23 03:24:54 <bpadalino> which is a little weird anyway
May 23 03:25:07 <zsoc> what header is missing and what needs it
May 23 03:25:15 <dtzWill> wonder if it's now considered part of the PDK or something
May 23 03:25:27 <dtzWill> zsoc: the SDL GLES headers are gone from recent versions
May 23 03:25:34 <dtzWill> zsoc: and everything that uses GLES needs it
May 23 03:26:13 <zsoc> dtzWill: are the headers in the PDK? i can get it staging in the widk...
May 23 03:26:39 <bpadalino> the libsdl patch from palm.com doesn't have SDL_opengles.h, but references it
May 23 03:27:39 <zsoc> http://www.libsdl.org/tmp/SDL-1.3-docs/SDL__opengles_8h-source.html <-- ?
May 23 03:28:24 <bpadalino> zsoc, the real question is "why did palm not include it in the newer patches, but in the older patches?"
May 23 03:31:09 <zsoc> bpadalino: they forgot?
May 23 03:31:55 <bpadalino> possibly i guess
May 23 03:38:03 <fefner> Does preware void the warranty?
May 23 03:38:16 <rwhitby> fefner: no, but overclocking does.
May 23 03:38:23 <fefner> What is overclocking?
May 23 03:38:59 <rwhitby> fefner: installing the UberKernel package
May 23 03:39:50 <fefner> Hm. I'll have to look into that. Pretty much what I'm looking for is a little more personality in my device. Installing themes, running emulators, etc.
May 23 03:40:08 <fefner> I take it Preware is what I need to do that?
May 23 03:40:38 <zsoc> fefner: it's the best way, yes
May 23 03:40:57 <rwhitby> fefner: yes, and none of that voids the warranty (even if some Sprint store managers try to tell you otherwise).  Just do a full erase and webOS Doctor before taking it anywhere near a carrier representative.
May 23 03:41:41 <fefner> Fantastic. One more question: How do I put my device in dev mode? I just got my Palm Pre Plus today and am still learning.
May 23 03:42:03 <rwhitby> fefner: what google search terms have you tried for that so far?
May 23 03:42:22 <fefner> Tushe
May 23 03:42:29 <fefner> Suppose I should go to google first huh hahaha
May 23 03:42:32 <fefner> Thank you for your time
May 23 03:42:42 <rwhitby> fefner: no worries - have fun.
May 23 03:43:35 <Spyral> *Touché
May 23 03:43:49 <Spyral>  /internetgrammarnazi
May 23 03:49:58 <jacques> bpadalino: correct, adding the opengles includes back does not fix the build
May 23 03:50:36 <jacques> dtzWill: oh I missed it when you told me :-(
May 23 03:50:44 <jacques> or forgot
May 23 04:27:22 <ka6sox> jacques, do you have the GLES headers someplace?
May 23 04:29:27 <bpadalino> it's still in the libsdl patch from 1.4.0 .. just not in 1.4.1.1 or 1.4.2 ..not sure what the sdl changes were from 1.4.0 to 1.4.1.1
May 23 04:31:11 <zsoc> could do a patch diff
May 23 04:31:27 <zsoc> ha, that was a bit oxymoronic.. i meant a diff on the two patch versions
May 23 05:12:35 <jacques> unfortunately just adding the headers back in did not fix the build for me. there is more to the changes I guess.
May 23 05:31:18 <Gollyzila|comp> Why is it that every time I tap a PDK app on my Sprint 1.4.1.1 Pre, I always get the Too Many Cards Error even though there are no cards open. What could be running in the background that's eating my phone's memory?
May 23 05:32:08 <rwhitby> LunaSysMgr usually
May 23 05:32:25 <zsoc|away> Gollyzila|comp: the underlying cause is generally agreed to be the JVM, which is going away in the near future
May 23 05:32:32 <zsoc|away> wait, i'm away. crap.
May 23 05:32:40 <Gollyzila|comp> busted
May 23 05:32:40 <zsoc|away> uh... ignore i said anything.
May 23 05:33:17 <Gollyzila|comp> is there a command I can use to see what's running in the background on my phone?
May 23 05:33:42 <rwhitby> yep, ps -ef
May 23 05:33:47 <rwhitby> or top
May 23 05:39:40 <Gollyzila|comp> why does LunaSysMgr use up so much memory?
May 23 05:43:09 <ka6sox> Gollyzila|comp, look a the res number...not the virt
May 23 05:43:42 <Gollyzila|comp> ooooo i see now
May 23 05:44:02 <ka6sox> the res number is what is resident in memory
May 23 05:44:26 <Gollyzila|comp> wow, the list in top changes quickly
May 23 05:44:50 <jacques> hit M
May 23 05:46:13 <Gollyzila|comp> BrowserServer is the phone using the internet?
May 23 07:15:05 <shelob101> I'm using the terminal app and I wonder if anyone knows how to gen the equals sign char
May 23 07:19:44 <rwhitby> blob+P ?
May 23 07:22:05 <shelob101> tx rwhitby!  that's what I get for typing in the dark :)
May 23 08:06:11 <hape_> dtzWill: will prefix next time. Thanks for the hint. Youre right therer are to many 'subprojects'
May 23 08:43:32 <dtzWill> jacques: what errors? :)
May 23 08:43:55 <dtzWill> hape_: sounds good, thanks. and yeah lots of subprojects :D
May 23 13:34:59 <liz> hey
May 23 13:35:14 <liz> hello.
May 23 13:35:17 <liz> hi.
May 23 13:35:21 <bpadalino> good morning
May 23 13:35:31 <Guest63122> i need help
May 23 13:35:34 <bpadalino> uh oh
May 23 13:35:38 <bpadalino> what's wrong ?
May 23 13:35:48 <Guest63122> im trying to download an on screen keyboard
May 23 13:35:55 <bpadalino> ok
May 23 13:35:58 <Guest63122> i need the preware software
May 23 13:36:04 <Guest63122> how?
May 23 13:36:29 <bpadalino> http://install.preware.org is where i usually go
May 23 13:36:38 <bpadalino> it has all the information you need on how to install preware
May 23 13:37:14 <Guest63122> so u have it on ur pre?
May 23 13:37:50 <bpadalino> i have preware, yes - most people in the channel do
May 23 13:38:32 <Guest63122> oh. ok. well i guess ill try 2 go install it so i can get an onscreen keyboard. thanks
May 23 13:38:43 <bpadalino> good luck
May 23 13:38:53 <Guest63122> :)
May 23 14:18:13 <swisstomcat> hi
May 23 14:36:32 <Decimate> hello everyone
May 23 14:39:27 <bpadalino> hi
May 23 14:42:19 <swisstomcat> hi
May 23 15:10:59 <sbromwich> rwhitby: ping?
May 23 15:11:28 <sbromwich> I'm trying to get 1.4.1-28 compiled but the autobuilder doesn't seem to be building it... is there a log somewhere I can check?
May 23 15:11:51 <nt4cats> I finally found out where the livecd user is created on an Ubuntu livecd
May 23 15:12:06 <sbromwich> from http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=kernels/patches.git;a=summary
May 23 15:12:45 <sbromwich> anyway... my son wants to go down to the pub
May 23 15:12:47 <sbromwich> bbl
May 23 15:12:50 <nt4cats> Maybe all livecds are this way, but this setup would make rube goldberg proud
May 23 16:40:22 <DrFunk> anyone around for a preware ?
May 23 16:43:16 <DrFunk> trying to run preware and I'm getting the service is too old try to reboot did that still the same
May 23 16:43:26 <DrFunk> should I reinstall ?
May 23 17:52:04 <bpadalino> Jtee: rwhitby is in australia and probably isn't awake .. but someone else may know more about preware and the C service
May 23 17:53:18 <Jtee> The question is, does new preware install contain package manager? Can I delete package manager if i'm running the latest preware?
May 23 17:57:14 <swisstomcat> hello
May 23 17:57:46 <swisstomcat> the new preware >=1.0.0 contains the service and it will/should remove the old java package manager service on installation
May 23 18:02:04 <Jtee> swisstomcat, looks like that's exactly what it did...
May 23 18:02:25 <swisstomcat> does it work now?
May 23 18:03:59 <greg__> hello, i could use some help
May 23 18:04:08 <swisstomcat> go ahead
May 23 18:04:36 <greg__> i installed preware just like it said and theres no app on my device for me to run it
May 23 18:05:14 <swisstomcat> you mean no preware icon in the launcher?
May 23 18:05:22 <greg__> yes
May 23 18:05:35 <swisstomcat> which instructions did you follow?
May 23 18:05:51 <greg__> the ones here: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware
May 23 18:06:33 <swisstomcat> with webosquickinstall?
May 23 18:07:25 <greg__> yeah
May 23 18:08:10 <swisstomcat> any (error) messages while installing?
May 23 18:08:21 <greg__> none at all
May 23 18:09:03 <swisstomcat> i assume that there must be some sort of message
May 23 18:09:08 <swisstomcat> error or otherwise
May 23 18:09:11 <swisstomcat> when you install
May 23 18:09:21 <swisstomcat> can you try again and post all the steps you're doing?
May 23 18:09:46 <greg__> there wasnt any messages except for one the popped up in a black window and said service has been removed
May 23 18:22:59 <newuser> hi I just got my pre yesterday. I'm trying to ise preware to theme but it's doesn't show available themes. Can anyone help me
May 23 18:23:36 <bpadalino> heh, amusing
May 23 18:32:54 <swisstomcat> newuser: did you check the feed settings to see if themes are enabled?
May 23 19:00:56 <nt4cats> ~seen rwhitby
May 23 19:00:59 <infobot> rwhitby is currently on #webos-internals (1d 17h 15m 29s) #oe (1d 17h 15m 29s) #meego (1d 17h 15m 29s) #nslu2-linux (1d 17h 15m 29s). Has said a total of 140 messages. Is idling for 11h 41m 15s, last said: 'blob+P ?'.
May 23 19:04:45 <Decimate> hi everyone
May 23 19:05:04 <nt4cats> ~preware-bootstrap
May 23 19:05:05 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, preware-bootstrap is cd /tmp; wget http://bit.ly/preware-bootstrap; sh preware-bootstrap
May 23 19:05:43 <nt4cats> does bit.ly let you change the URL?
May 23 19:10:11 <swisstomcat> why?
May 23 19:11:39 <swisstomcat> afterwards you mean?
May 23 19:49:20 <bpadalino> oh hey, it's 2 weeks until webos' birthday ..
May 23 19:50:28 <swisstomcat> wohoo
May 23 19:50:46 <swisstomcat> http://wiki.froscamp.org/2010:Call_for_Projects
May 23 19:51:37 <bpadalino> neat
May 23 19:55:41 <nt4cats> swisstomcat: right now I have a webos-internals sort of file hosted on one of my S3 buckets.
May 23 19:55:56 <swisstomcat> hmm?
May 23 19:55:57 <nt4cats> swisstomcat: .. and I need to burn a [bit.ly] URL into a livecd
May 23 19:56:03 <swisstomcat> oh
May 23 19:56:25 <nt4cats> swisstomcat: ... so I'd like to burn the URL in now and let rwhitby re-host the file (and then I'll 'move' the URL) later
May 23 19:57:32 <nt4cats> While I don't doubt that a [big] part of the problem is the tool/technique I'm using to make a LiveCD .. it is a PAIN IN THE ASS to spin one off.   If I want to change one character it takes 30 minutes
May 23 19:58:38 <swisstomcat> maybe http://bitly.pro/?
May 23 20:07:40 <nt4cats> okay, other than one stupid error in the grub.conf this livecd is ready (for its 0.0001 release)
May 23 20:09:22 <nt4cats> well, it works in virtualbox, I guess I should burn it to a disc first
May 23 20:21:04 <zsoc> nt4cats: good work
May 23 20:28:38 <nt4cats> zsoc: there's more we could do with it -- I think you were the one that proposed we add script(s) to auto-magically install preware
May 23 20:29:49 <zsoc> nt4cats: yeah. "1.) put in this cd, 2.) reboot"
May 23 20:30:05 <zsoc> "please connect phone", "preware is now installed, please remove cd, your computer will now reboot"
May 23 20:30:49 <nt4cats> right now you put it in and it boots to a gnome desktop with a "novaterm bootstrap" icon on it -- you double-click the icon and it downloads the latest novaterm-bootstrap script and then executes it
May 23 20:31:49 <nt4cats> I think the easiest/best thing to do is to enhance novaterm-bootstrap.sh so that after it runs (if it detects it is running on a livecd) it can add a "install preware" icon onto the desktop
May 23 20:32:19 <nt4cats> I'm doing everything I can to never have to update the livecd.  Ever.
May 23 20:32:30 <zsoc> nt4cats: yeah, and maybe have a detection for novacom stuff.. or give an option for novacom vs precom, and then explain how to put device in dev mode if it isn't detected
May 23 20:33:25 <nt4cats> I already have a "detect if a webOS device in developer mode is connected" script, too (one that doesn't depend on novacom or precom
May 23 20:33:45 <zsoc> cool
May 23 20:35:05 <nt4cats> I think the tool/technique I selected to make livecd's sorta sucks -- the build time is 20+ minutes.  It is a royal pain
May 23 20:36:40 <zsoc> nt4cats: that honestly sounds about right, unfortunately
May 23 20:37:37 <nt4cats> .. so I want to dick around getting the grub boot configuration right, and there is a 20-30 minute "tax" with each attempt.
May 23 20:40:51 <zsoc> nt4cats: been there. there's probably a better way to test all that locally with just a VM reboot, but if you're almost done it may not be worth setting up an env like that :)
May 23 20:48:28 <nt4cats> I'm not actually rebooting my laptop ... I'm making a new iso and then booting that iso in a VM ...
May 23 20:51:52 <Vince42> after upgrading preware to 1.1 it says that the service version is too old. I rebooted the phone but it did not do the trick - is reinstallation really the only way?
May 23 20:53:00 <swisstomcat> upgrading from which version?
May 23 20:53:17 <Vince42> was upgrading from 1.0.0 to 1.1.0
May 23 20:53:59 <swisstomcat> did you reboot?
May 23 20:55:09 <Vince42> yip - it didn't do the trick unfortunately
May 23 20:55:15 <swisstomcat> hmm
May 23 20:55:40 <swisstomcat> reinstall would be the next thing to try
May 23 20:55:48 <Vince42> i don't mind reinstalling, but i would prefer to fix this via command line or something like that
May 23 20:56:03 <swisstomcat> you can reinstall via the command line
May 23 20:56:28 <swisstomcat> open a command line
May 23 20:56:36 <Vince42> yes, go on please
May 23 20:56:42 <swisstomcat> cd /tmp
May 23 20:56:57 <swisstomcat> wget http://bit.ly/preware-bootstrap
May 23 20:57:04 <swisstomcat> sh -x preware-bootstrap
May 23 20:57:32 <Vince42> ah, okay
May 23 20:57:40 <Vince42> that was what i was looking for :)
May 23 20:58:06 <Vince42> cuz as this could happen away from the office with no usb cable, i prefer to know the "dirty way" :)
May 23 20:58:35 <swisstomcat> yup, always good to know .. if you feel comfortable on the command line
May 23 20:59:33 <Vince42> i do - i know my "usual" linux pretty well, but i am cautious when it comes to running commands on my phone, as there is usually no second option available after something fails :)
May 23 20:59:44 <swisstomcat> very good
May 23 20:59:59 <swisstomcat> just reboot after using that method
May 23 21:00:26 <zsoc> swisstomcat: why reboot?
May 23 21:00:32 <Vince42> will do - just need to setup my ssh first on this comp (different environment)
May 23 21:00:38 <zsoc> please stop rebooting your phones people
May 23 21:00:40 <swisstomcat> zsoc: preware-bootstrap still calls rescan
May 23 21:00:47 <zsoc> swisstomcat: oooohhhhhhh
May 23 21:01:00 <zsoc> well tell him to open his dialer/messaging/email/calender apps after ;)
May 23 21:01:17 <swisstomcat> guess that's a method too
May 23 21:01:49 <swisstomcat> i wasn't going to say that preware-bootstrap kills your background services because of a webos bug :)
May 23 21:01:49 <zsoc> i think someone (oil?) is working on a app to restart C services
May 23 21:02:17 <swisstomcat> and the latest preware uses other methods as well
May 23 21:02:22 <swisstomcat> to rescan
May 23 21:02:58 <Tibfib> is that not what java restart does?
May 23 21:03:12 <swisstomcat> what?
May 23 21:03:22 <Tibfib> does it restart the email/phone etc services?
May 23 21:03:35 <swisstomcat> i don't think so but i'm not sure
May 23 21:03:48 <zsoc> Tibfib: i suppose yes, but that is all going away soon
May 23 21:03:53 <swisstomcat> yup
May 23 21:03:57 <swisstomcat> sooner or later
May 23 21:04:19 <Tibfib> zsoc: oh yeah. not a permanent solution then
May 23 21:04:54 <Vince42> can i simply reboot the phone with "shutdown -r now"?
May 23 21:05:21 <zsoc> or 'reboot'
May 23 21:05:22 <zsoc> :>
May 23 21:05:32 <Vince42> how lame :)
May 23 21:06:20 * Vince42 thinks too complicated 
May 23 21:07:20 * swisstomcat just uses the power button
May 23 21:07:37 <ka6sox> Caught Sig[21] rebooting
May 23 21:08:00 * Vince42 does that usually too but unfortunately installed a patch, which hinders him from rebooting this way atm ... as it needs preware to be removed :P
May 23 21:14:02 <Vince42> oh, btw, another funny issue i'd like to solve after this one: i installed some sudoku months ago - and after some os updateds it was gone - but he constantly seems to offer updates for this program, which i neither see nor want ... i guess there's some zombie entry somewhere ... how can i completely remove this unwanted app?
May 23 22:25:47 <swisstomcat> night
May 23 22:27:00 <nt4cats> nite
May 23 23:12:16 <nt4cats> Okay, I like everything about this LiveCD I just made -- except for the LiveCD I based it off of, it is WAY too big.
May 23 23:13:35 <ka6sox> nt4cats, what did you base it off of?
May 23 23:14:00 <nt4cats> the ubuntu desktop "install" live cd
May 23 23:14:14 <nt4cats> ... it has way way way more packages on it than we need
May 23 23:14:47 <nt4cats> but I was trying to figure out things like how to make isolinux do what i wanted and how to get an icon on the liveCD users' desktop
May 23 23:14:51 <ka6sox> looks like remix time!
May 23 23:14:51 <nt4cats> (those problems are solved)
May 23 23:15:45 <tmzt> what do you need the gui for?
May 23 23:16:18 <nt4cats> tmzt: the target audience for this thing is windoze users -- I don't want them to have to use the command-line
May 23 23:16:27 <tmzt> what's the goal?
May 23 23:16:44 <nt4cats> you burn a CD, boot it, click the "novaterm bootstrap" icon, and you are ready to talk to your pre
May 23 23:16:51 <nt4cats> (as long as your pre is already in developer mode)
May 23 23:18:01 <tmzt> so you need X and a basic wm
May 23 23:18:04 <nt4cats> I can think of a dozen things to do to it now to make it 'better'
May 23 23:18:09 <tmzt> might suggest openbox
May 23 23:18:27 <tmzt> you don't need to seed ubuntu-desktop
May 23 23:18:59 <nt4cats> tmzt: if you'd like to make a livecd based upon openbox, please do, I'd be glad to help you use my novaterm-bootstrap scripts.
May 23 23:19:30 <nt4cats> tmzt: but this is the way I figured out how to make LiveCD's, and my time to learn new things is limited (I work for a startup and have young kids)
May 23 23:19:54 <tmzt> I thought you were trying to make it smaller
May 23 23:19:58 <tmzt> maybe I misunderstood
May 23 23:20:19 <nt4cats> I am interested in making it smaller, but it is easier for me to take the image I have and remove packages from it than it would be to start over with a whole new distro
May 23 23:20:25 <tmzt> I was only suggesting changing the packages included, not changing distros or removing casper or anything
May 23 23:21:14 <nt4cats> Right now it is probably a 700M download.  I bet by removing a boatload of packages I can get it down under 200M, probably more like 100M.  At that point I'll be satisfied
May 23 23:21:18 <tmzt> for instance, ubuntu-minimal, xserver-xorg (same seed as desktop), openbox, some kind of simple menubar, a few other packages
May 23 23:21:51 <nt4cats> tmzt: I am sure that with careful building this whole thing could be < 50M
May 23 23:21:53 <tmzt> so your mounting and rebuilding the loopfs?
May 23 23:22:20 <nt4cats> I'm using a tool called UCK (Ubuntu Customization Kit)
May 23 23:22:33 <tmzt> then there's probably a text file of packages to seed
May 23 23:23:40 <nt4cats> I am sure I can trim it pretty well.   I am hesitant to remove gnome, as I already have the graphics elements and desktop icon setup, etc. working.
May 23 23:24:23 <nt4cats> tmzt: if you have any time and interest, I'd be glad to give you a URL to download my too-fat image and I'd be glad to have your help trimming it.
May 23 23:24:48 <nt4cats> otherwise I'll take a swipe at removing pacakges and see what I can do to make the download more reasonable
May 23 23:26:04 <tmzt> well okay but you'll have a hard time getting it down without removing gnome
May 23 23:26:08 <tmzt> or a major part of it
May 23 23:26:22 <tmzt> surgery with dpkg -r can be fun but it has it's limits for maintaining sanity
May 23 23:27:00 <nt4cats> tmzt: is there a such thing as an ubuntu-minimal live cd already cooked up?
May 23 23:27:11 <nt4cats> (with some sort of basic GUI)
May 23 23:28:04 <tmzt> there's xubuntu
May 23 23:28:43 <nt4cats> I see ubuntu mini remix
May 23 23:28:54 <nt4cats> and ubuntu lite ... let me look at those
May 23 23:29:54 <nt4cats> I'm going to try the ubuntu mini remix.  It is 155M (I will only be adding a few K at most)
May 23 23:31:32 <nt4cats> I am also looking at xubuntu, too -- thanks for the recommend
May 23 23:32:31 <nt4cats> xubuntu is 680M
May 23 23:32:32 <nt4cats> :/
May 23 23:35:35 <tmzt> yeeh, they used to be light as well as fast
May 23 23:35:41 <tmzt> but xfce4 is almost as big as gnome now
May 23 23:41:45 <nt4cats> ~seen rwhitby
May 23 23:41:47 <infobot> rwhitby is currently on #webos-internals (1d 21h 56m 17s) #oe (1d 21h 56m 17s) #meego (1d 21h 56m 17s) #nslu2-linux (1d 21h 56m 17s). Has said a total of 140 messages. Is idling for 16h 22m 3s, last said: 'blob+P ?'.
May 23 23:44:34 <nt4cats> I'm hoping rwhitby and/or his friends can offer me a place to host this .iso -- if I let people download it from my s3 bucket it'll cost me about 9 cents every time someone downloads it
May 23 23:50:46 <rwhitby> nt4cats: we can do that
May 23 23:50:58 <nt4cats> rwhitby :)
May 23 23:51:01 <nt4cats> mornin'
May 23 23:53:05 <nt4cats> rwhitby: I want to try and respin this (now that it is working for the base case) to trim its size.  I started with the ubuntu 10.4 i386 desktop live cd, so right now it is 680M.
May 23 23:53:42 <nt4cats> In terms of adding 'features', we can do many things without re-burning the iso
May 23 23:54:08 <nt4cats> (it can download scripts off of the interwebs and execute them -- so we can change/improve behaviors just by uploading new scripts)
May 23 23:56:51 * nt4cats will be back in 10 minutes (gotta help the boy wrap up bath-time)
May 24 00:26:15 <rwhitby> Can someone alpha test Luna Manager 0.1.0 from the testing feed please?
May 24 00:33:44 <PuffTheMagic> someone needs to make a patch for bulk photo sms
May 24 00:36:48 <PuffTheMagic> nt4cats: if u make an ubuntu mini mix
May 24 00:37:00 <PuffTheMagic> nt4cats: then we should just use a gentoo stage
May 24 00:37:02 <PuffTheMagic> and call it a day
May 24 00:37:27 <PuffTheMagic> the build stuff will all work in a gentoo stage3
May 24 00:37:30 <PuffTheMagic> maybe even a stage2
May 24 00:54:02 <PrimerFender> PuffTheMagic: do you use gentoo?
May 24 00:54:18 <PuffTheMagic> PrimerFender: normally yes
May 24 00:54:43 <PrimerFender> just looked it up, sounds interesting
May 24 00:55:02 <PuffTheMagic> its the only linux distro a dev should ever use
May 24 00:55:48 <rwhitby> heh
May 24 00:55:57 <PrimerFender> lol
May 24 00:55:58 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: ;)
May 24 00:56:09 * rwhitby uses ubuntu server, no GUI
May 24 00:56:25 <PrimerFender> stupid gui...they just get in the way ;-)
May 24 00:56:39 <PrimerFender> trying to be all user-friendly and shit
May 24 00:56:54 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: portage is working out really nice on ubuntu, i really hope we can figured out this multiple toolchain issue
May 24 00:56:56 <rwhitby> a gui is just a means of organising terminals on a big screen
May 24 00:57:45 <rwhitby> wIRC 0.2.4 is released, thx to oil and PuffTheMagic
May 24 00:58:01 <RagingMind> change log?
May 24 00:58:04 <PrimerFender> rwhitby: how do you read webpages? do you decipher the html in your head with wget? hehe
May 24 00:58:33 <oil_pre> changelog: nothing
May 24 00:58:42 <RagingMind> PrimerFender, I actually know someone that sometimes sends email with telnet
May 24 00:59:03 <PrimerFender> don't forget the .
May 24 00:59:06 <PrimerFender> .
May 24 00:59:09 <rwhitby> RagingMind: they should use netcat instead
May 24 01:11:08 <nt4cats> PuffTheMagic: My thought here is that the primary/core target audience for this LiveCD is Windows users -- so I thought a GUI and a "click here!" icon would be best
May 24 01:11:26 <rwhitby> nt4cats: agreed
May 24 01:11:51 <PuffTheMagic> nt4cats: but why do u need a gui
May 24 01:12:00 <PuffTheMagic> unless people are running eclipse
May 24 01:12:14 <PuffTheMagic> but they could run eclipse on their normal platform
May 24 01:12:24 <PuffTheMagic> and all the files could be local
May 24 01:12:30 <PuffTheMagic> u just need the vm
May 24 01:12:36 <PuffTheMagic> to run the compiling really
May 24 01:12:40 <nt4cats> PuffTheMagic: my project is a "novaterm bootstrap" LiveCD to help people gain access to their Pre
May 24 01:12:42 <nt4cats> (or Pixi)
May 24 01:12:59 <PuffTheMagic> nt4cats: no i thought u were working on the widk
May 24 01:13:06 <PuffTheMagic> making a lightweight image
May 24 01:13:08 <PuffTheMagic> or something like that
May 24 01:13:10 <PuffTheMagic> my bad
May 24 01:13:12 <nt4cats> PuffTheMagic: nope
May 24 01:13:56 <PuffTheMagic> what people "gain access" then what?
May 24 01:14:00 <PuffTheMagic> and what is "gain access"
May 24 01:14:07 <rwhitby> oil_pre: heh, since the appid changed, no-one running ws.junk.wirc will know that there is a new org.webosinternals.wirc
May 24 01:14:07 <PuffTheMagic> just being abe to run novaterm?
May 24 01:14:22 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: yeah i said we could remove those old packages
May 24 01:14:24 <PuffTheMagic> and the git repos
May 24 01:14:26 <nt4cats> windows people are sometimes scared/intimidated at the idea of setting up and running novacom/novaterm.
May 24 01:14:41 <PuffTheMagic> nt4cats: so what about
May 24 01:14:44 <PuffTheMagic> the precom progs
May 24 01:14:54 <PuffTheMagic> we have shown that works on windows
May 24 01:14:55 <PuffTheMagic> and linux
May 24 01:14:58 <PuffTheMagic> not mac yet
May 24 01:14:59 <PuffTheMagic> natively
May 24 01:15:05 <PuffTheMagic> if we could use that
May 24 01:15:07 <PuffTheMagic> and it had some gui
May 24 01:15:13 <PuffTheMagic> that did usefull things
May 24 01:15:20 <PuffTheMagic> would that accomplish your goal?
May 24 01:15:21 <nt4cats> It is very easy to drop in a livecd, have it install novaterm and then you can do your business with your webOS device
May 24 01:15:37 <PuffTheMagic> nt4cats: but we have a oss version of novaterm
May 24 01:15:41 <PuffTheMagic> that works on all OSes
May 24 01:15:45 <PuffTheMagic> we just need a gui for it
May 24 01:15:56 <PuffTheMagic> this was one of the things on my todo list
May 24 01:16:00 <nt4cats> PuffTheMagic: That'd be fine, sure
May 24 01:16:11 <PuffTheMagic> nt4cats: so what do u want people to be able to do
May 24 01:16:19 <PuffTheMagic> that is really the big question
May 24 01:16:26 <PuffTheMagic> just install apps
May 24 01:16:33 <PuffTheMagic> or get term access?
May 24 01:16:43 <nt4cats> I guess the goal here is to lower the cost/complexity to getting Preware on your phone
May 24 01:16:49 <PuffTheMagic> oh
May 24 01:16:51 <PuffTheMagic> well
May 24 01:17:06 <zsoc> nt4cats: less time arguing with puff, more time finishing ;)
May 24 01:17:08 <PuffTheMagic> we can def make an easy preware installer using the oss novacom
May 24 01:17:17 <PuffTheMagic> zsoc: no arguing
May 24 01:17:19 <PuffTheMagic> just discussing
May 24 01:17:28 <PuffTheMagic> i was just curious of the goal
May 24 01:17:30 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic: 'definitely' is a funny term, considering we've working on it multiple times and never finished it
May 24 01:17:39 <zsoc> and we're all working on other projects and that's not on the top of anyone's list
May 24 01:17:46 <nt4cats> This lowers it to drop in a livecd, click on an icon, and you're good to go
May 24 01:18:06 <PuffTheMagic> nt4cats: its still not really optimal
May 24 01:18:08 <PuffTheMagic> for your goal
May 24 01:19:04 <PuffTheMagic> does work though
May 24 01:19:27 <PuffTheMagic> nt4cats: but if u really want a light weight installer
May 24 01:19:31 <PuffTheMagic> check out sysrescucd
May 24 01:19:47 <PuffTheMagic> http://www.sysresccd.org/Main_Page
May 24 01:19:50 <PuffTheMagic> its gentoo based
May 24 01:19:55 <PuffTheMagic> boots any computer
May 24 01:19:57 <zsoc> that's a reasonable point
May 24 01:19:58 <PuffTheMagic> installable to a usb
May 24 01:20:14 <PuffTheMagic> u could easily make it just install preware
May 24 01:20:25 <PuffTheMagic> with a text script
May 24 01:20:25 <nt4cats> I'd be much happier to have this smaller than an Ubuntu LiveCD
May 24 01:20:32 <zsoc> that's basically what he's doing now tho, and ubuntu will install to usb
May 24 01:20:33 <PuffTheMagic> u could install fluxbox on this image
May 24 01:20:45 <PuffTheMagic> u dont want to install to usb
May 24 01:20:57 <PuffTheMagic> u want a usb image
May 24 01:21:02 <PuffTheMagic> that start an installer
May 24 01:21:09 <PuffTheMagic> usb/cd image
May 24 01:21:11 <PuffTheMagic> either way
May 24 01:21:25 <PuffTheMagic> i dont even get why a gui is needed here
May 24 01:21:30 <PuffTheMagic> when its just a script
May 24 01:21:34 <zsoc> makes people happy
May 24 01:21:36 <PuffTheMagic> that needs to say "Installed"
May 24 01:21:43 <PuffTheMagic> ASCII art makes peopel happy too
May 24 01:22:01 <PuffTheMagic> tits make people happy too
May 24 01:22:03 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic: do yourself a favor and stay out of the userspace ;)
May 24 01:22:09 <PuffTheMagic> make sure the wallpaper for this installer has tits on it
May 24 01:22:26 <PuffTheMagic> we want happy users
May 24 01:22:29 <PuffTheMagic> and install compiz
May 24 01:22:34 <PuffTheMagic> so we can have installer effects
May 24 01:23:08 <rwhitby> nt4cats: hosting space is available whenever your ubuntu minimal livecd is ready :)
May 24 01:23:20 <PuffTheMagic> nt4cats: is installing ubuntu easier than webos quick install?
May 24 01:23:40 <PuffTheMagic> yeah i guess burning a cd is faster than running a jar
May 24 01:23:41 <nt4cats> The non-minimal version is ready to look at now ... it'll probably take me a few days of tinkering to get something smaller
May 24 01:23:43 <rwhitby> nt4cats: it'd be great if the livecd had another button to set up the WIDK
May 24 01:24:09 <rwhitby> nt4cats: of course that's driving it in completely the opposite direction :)
May 24 01:24:15 <zsoc> literally lol
May 24 01:24:18 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: setup widk in a livecd env?
May 24 01:24:20 <PuffTheMagic> how would u do that
May 24 01:24:23 <PuffTheMagic> in squashfs
May 24 01:24:25 <PuffTheMagic> every boot?
May 24 01:24:33 <PuffTheMagic> or tmpfs i mean
May 24 01:30:05 <PuffTheMagic> nt4cats:  a minimal livecd saves like 5 min of downloading, a livecd isnt installed, i dont get why u are tyring to cut it down
May 24 01:30:31 <nt4cats> PuffTheMagic: 680M seems big, I guess.
May 24 01:30:48 <PuffTheMagic> well just to install preware sure
May 24 01:30:56 <PuffTheMagic> esp when woqi is a few meg
May 24 01:31:12 <tmzt> five minutes?
May 24 01:32:45 <nt4cats> tmzt: it is about 5 minutes for me, but not everyone has a 20mbit connection
May 24 01:34:15 <je2345> whats up everyone
May 24 01:36:16 <kevinskocik> hi
May 24 01:36:20 <Gollyzila> you know what, Palm's doing a better job than Apple at keeping their upcoming devices from leaking
May 24 01:36:41 <nt4cats> I really wish Palm will leak something soon
May 24 01:36:50 <kevinskocik> or they don't have any to leak
May 24 01:36:53 <nt4cats> I am going to be VERY tempted to defect when the EVO becomes available
May 24 01:37:29 <nt4cats> I trying to talk myself into holding off until July in the hopes that Palm announces something
May 24 01:37:37 <Gollyzila> I hope an ofspring of HP and Palm is released this june
May 24 01:38:29 <kevinskocik> I can't wait for the webos slate
May 24 01:38:45 <je2345> me too
May 24 01:39:16 <Gollyzila> android is pretty tempting with it's widgets and customizability,but it's Palm itself, WebOS's multitasking and the homebrew community that keeps me hooked
May 24 01:40:01 <kevinskocik> just switched from android and it's overrated imo
May 24 01:40:52 <nt4cats> I love Palm, the webOS UI is quite superior in my opinion, but I am feeling the strong lure of a 4G device (I live+work in a 4G service area)
May 24 01:41:07 <je2345> i still got my Motorola Droid & HTC Droid Incredible
May 24 01:41:44 <kevinskocik> I just want a keyboardless device with a 3.5 or greater screen
May 24 01:41:48 <je2345> atleast 6 more Android devices to launch this year with 1-2 to be LTE capable
May 24 01:41:56 <je2345> The HTC Droid Incredible is SWEET!
May 24 01:42:01 <kevinskocik> and do you like webos better than android
May 24 01:42:29 <mjkjr> am I in the wrong channel?
May 24 01:42:33 <nt4cats> I do like webOS better than android.
May 24 01:42:35 <je2345> i like the way webOS handles multitasking with its unique UI but love Android
May 24 01:42:53 <je2345> the HTC Incredible is just....fucking Incredible
May 24 01:42:58 <je2345> so fast and camera is amazing
May 24 01:43:22 <Gollyzila> what else makes it incredible?
May 24 01:43:29 <rwhitby> je2345: FYI, #webos is a better channel for comparing webOS devices with other devices, thanks.
May 24 01:43:43 <rwhitby> this channel is about the internals of webOS devices only
May 24 01:43:45 <je2345> sorry
May 24 01:43:51 <Gollyzila> woops
May 24 01:43:54 <rwhitby> no worries.
May 24 01:44:13 <je2345> i get a lil excited talking about different devices
May 24 01:45:01 <mjkjr> I thought I got into an android channel somehow :-)
May 24 01:45:34 <Gollyzila> that was my fault, sorry
May 24 01:45:44 <je2345> lol....i just came from the android world
May 24 01:45:49 <je2345> anyways...
May 24 01:45:54 <Termana> Haters gonna hate
May 24 01:46:34 <je2345> im trying to find a way to make my palm pre plus download any file ota. Anyone know of a way? i installed the multi-mod patch and that didnt work
May 24 01:46:50 <mjkjr> so I finally got to really put save/restore and pre backup utility (for my texts) to the test today. worked great :-)
May 24 01:49:41 <Gollyzila|comp> well speaking of webos internals, it would be pretty neat to have widget functionality as is shown in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRbdEInZOW4
May 24 01:54:32 <rwhitby> Gollyzila|comp: interesting
May 24 01:55:17 <Gollyzila|comp> or somehow incorporate widgets into the launcher
May 24 01:55:38 <kevinskocik> I'd say a swipe down gesture
May 24 01:55:57 <kevinskocik> and only close apps with swipe up
May 24 01:56:31 <kevinskocik> nvm that's how it already is
May 24 01:57:29 <Gollyzila|comp> some app icons automatically change (calendar, agenda, govnah). Maybe that could be the basis of a widget. Im just thinking out loud to who ever is reading
May 24 02:21:50 <Fillmore_Slim> wirc just installed.  working well.  Salute!
May 24 02:22:33 <Fillmore_Slim> ty to all the devs
May 24 02:22:44 <TheSavaLord> yeah it's pretty good to bad it has a major bug for me.
May 24 02:23:20 <zsoc> hooray work :)
May 24 02:23:29 <zsoc> er... wirc
May 24 02:23:54 <TheSavaLord> do a channel list lol
May 24 02:24:46 <zsoc> ?
May 24 02:24:49 <zsoc> oh
May 24 02:24:58 <zsoc> well i've never needed to D:
May 24 02:25:46 <TheSavaLord> I don't need to in here but I use it on undernet
May 24 02:29:32 <rwhitby> LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgr}: void CoreNaviManager::renderGesture(SysMgrEvent::Key): rendering down
May 24 02:29:49 <rwhitby> that's what you get when you swipe down past gesture area on an empty screen
May 24 02:30:02 <rwhitby> (i.e. the proposed widget opening gesture)
May 24 02:31:03 <TheSavaLord> looks to be a cool feature when it happens
May 24 02:31:07 <rwhitby> I wonder how that can be captured
May 24 02:31:12 <rwhitby> (the down gesture)
May 24 02:36:30 <Gollyzila> the same way an up gesture is captured?
May 24 02:36:38 <TheSavaLord> bbl
May 24 02:38:38 <rwhitby> Gollyzila: I don't see where they come out of the LunaSysMgr binary
May 24 02:39:13 <RagingMind> that's not the nick I chose...
May 24 02:40:20 <RagingMind> is there a way to restart a service without restarting the Pre?
May 24 02:40:32 <zsoc> sure
May 24 02:40:59 <RagingMind> cause once something in wirc goes bonkers... it stays that way till I reboot
May 24 02:41:24 <zsoc> RagingMind: just restart the upstart script
May 24 02:41:29 <Gollyzila|comp> I actually don't know much of Linux and coding, so I'm not the person to ask.
May 24 02:41:36 <Gollyzila|comp> but i would like to learn
May 24 02:41:37 <zsoc> stop org.webosinternals.wirc; start org.webosinternals.wirc
May 24 02:42:15 <RagingMind> hmm...
May 24 02:42:43 <RagingMind> just typing "stop" and hitting enter to see if that was a command has dome something interesting
May 24 02:42:45 <RagingMind> kinda
May 24 02:43:11 <zsoc> i would imagine it tells you how to use it
May 24 02:43:25 <bpadalino> or maybe he's neo and he can control things!
May 24 02:43:26 <RagingMind> it gave some LunaSys message thingy
May 24 02:43:33 <RagingMind> and then my screen went blank
May 24 02:43:42 <RagingMind> the screen is still ON, but completely blank
May 24 02:43:43 <bpadalino> did little green letter start scrolling by ?
May 24 02:43:48 <bpadalino> hrmmm
May 24 02:44:47 <rwhitby> UpStartManager could be used for this
May 24 02:45:04 <RagingMind> if I type it from novaterm I do get a usage message, but that's definitely not what I got when i typed it in the terminal on my phone
May 24 02:47:22 <RagingMind> and there's almost nothing showing up in top (besides all those kernel tasks)
May 24 02:47:32 <RagingMind> I don't see luna anything
May 24 02:49:06 <RagingMind> ah, I ran LunaSysMgr (or whatever) and now I have my happy little palm logo and a TON of stuff printing to my terminal
May 24 02:49:25 <rwhitby> I really need a Palm Profile name as carrier string patch ...
May 24 02:50:09 <RagingMind> there's a LOT of debug output from this thing
May 24 02:51:26 <zsoc> RagingMind: yeah don't do that
May 24 02:51:54 <RagingMind> still not entirely sure what I did to make LunaSysMgr to disappear on me
May 24 02:52:03 <zsoc> RagingMind: apparently "stop" decided to make it stop, for some reason
May 24 02:52:34 <RagingMind> definitely not what I had in mind when I typed it
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon May 24 02:59:56 2010