**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 16 02:59:56 2010 Jun 16 03:00:04 its not hard to find if you take apart the Droid OC kernel Jun 16 03:00:42 * ka6sox-work downloads the Droid OC kernel. Jun 16 03:00:45 so... it didn't freeze this time... Jun 16 03:00:45 :D Jun 16 03:00:45 cryptk|wirc, other limiting factors? Jun 16 03:01:10 but it seemslike I am stuck at 500 Mhz now Jun 16 03:01:33 RagingMind: yes, something else is the 'weak link' at that point Jun 16 03:01:55 could be bus speeds, not sure, I haven't checked Jun 16 03:02:08 but no significant gains over 800 MHz Jun 16 03:02:30 I think uNiXpSyChO found the same results with the original OC kernel also Jun 16 03:02:44 yep Jun 16 03:02:49 but it is technically possible to make the cpu run faster? Jun 16 03:03:03 yes it is. no gain really Jun 16 03:03:13 is there actually a hard limit? Jun 16 03:03:22 CPU melt down? Jun 16 03:03:36 while that would be interesting... Jun 16 03:03:47 thermal barrier is the max Jun 16 03:03:50 Droid users had locksup going too high Jun 16 03:03:55 I guess "hard" limit isn't what I meant. "firm" limit? Jun 16 03:04:09 or 'how hot can you still hold it at' Jun 16 03:04:11 * ka6sox-work is glad he found the Temp Sensor in the OMAP.... Jun 16 03:04:24 hehe Jun 16 03:04:29 no doubt Jun 16 03:04:35 RagingMind: as in is there a speed you cannot set it above? Jun 16 03:04:45 cryptk|wirc, yes Jun 16 03:04:48 all this overclocking nonsense scares the beegeebers out of me. Jun 16 03:05:00 in theory no... but it may not actually run at those speeds Jun 16 03:05:13 * RagingMind doesn't even like running his pre at 720... he's just curious Jun 16 03:05:27 you could in theory tell it to run at 15GHz... it won't do it, but you could tell it to. Jun 16 03:05:27 Overclocking doesn't scare me because its just a phone. lol Blows up...I'll go buy a new one. Jun 16 03:05:55 not sure the clock would let it happen :p Jun 16 03:06:12 would be funny to be a gremlin and watch the electrons try to make that happen Jun 16 03:06:56 well, on this kernel I am a 250 with no freeze... Jun 16 03:07:03 for the first time ever Jun 16 03:07:10 what else changed? Jun 16 03:11:39 When setting the screen at 9% you can still see the screenstate kick as it dims seconds before it shuts off. With screenstate set at 250/800, it did not register 250. It only came down to 500 when the screen dimmed. Jun 16 03:15:47 spoke too soon Jun 16 03:17:23 BeeRad: seems like you're getting some good results there :) Jun 16 03:17:40 there we go Jun 16 03:17:57 and now my screenstate governor isn't working.. Jun 16 03:18:08 stuck at 500 no matter what I do Jun 16 03:18:16 dtzWill: build.git/testing-kernels/uber-kernel-pre is where you can build it Jun 16 03:18:45 even if I set it to 600/800 it reports 500 Jun 16 03:18:57 other governors work great though... Jun 16 03:19:18 uNiXpSyChO: Govnah will allow memlimit of 10,15,20,25,30 at the moment - do we need more options? Jun 16 03:19:19 rwhitby: Yes I was. I tried to move the compcache limit to 64 and it wouldn't hold. Am I missing something? Jun 16 03:19:35 I couldn't get mine to stick past 20. Jun 16 03:19:38 rwhitby: maybe higher for a Pre+ Jun 16 03:19:47 25 and 30 were useless. Jun 16 03:20:15 Kept defaulting back to 20. Jun 16 03:20:16 BeeRad: a higher compcache wont make TMC go away Jun 16 03:20:25 uNiXpSyChO: any ideas why my SS governor is stuck at 500? Jun 16 03:21:02 cryptk|wirc: screen brightness too low or plugged into a wall charger Jun 16 03:21:26 even if I set it at 600/800 it is still at 500 Jun 16 03:21:49 as in 600 min freq, lol Jun 16 03:22:08 BeeRad: the settings are probably sticking, but not reading back correctly. Jun 16 03:23:29 and cpuinfo agrees on the 500mhz with it set to 600 min 800 max... Jun 16 03:23:36 rwhitby: hmmm....ok. Jun 16 03:23:53 BeeRad: yeah, I'm not reading back the current settings from the installed module at the moment, so it will always say 20MB when you go back to the settings, even though the kernel module will have correctly been set higher Jun 16 03:24:10 cryptk|wirc: read what i said above Jun 16 03:24:26 I just need to suck the current value that the kernel has out of somewhere ... Jun 16 03:24:46 uNiXpSyChO: where's the best place to get the current value of memlimit from the installed module? Jun 16 03:24:48 I did... off wall charger, screen at 50% like always. Jun 16 03:24:53 rwhitby: in /proc/ramzswap Jun 16 03:25:45 ah, yeah, I can get it from there. Jun 16 03:25:52 cryptk|wirc: Reset? lol Jun 16 03:27:06 grep MemLimit /proc/ramzswap | awk '{print $2}' Jun 16 03:27:38 anyone got a better way to do that? Jun 16 03:27:46 that'll work Jun 16 03:28:01 just dont use Perl Jun 16 03:28:02 and luna just crashed... lol Jun 16 03:28:05 is anyone able to assist me with WebOS Doctor issues? Jun 16 03:28:18 please* Jun 16 03:28:42 ~asktoask Jun 16 03:28:45 This is IRC. Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question and if someone's around, they'll be glad to help. Jun 16 03:30:12 WebOS Doctor is stuck at 1%. I recently received a refurb Pre to replace a broken slider and decided to doctor is to ensure cleanliness. I can't get the doctor to complete. Jun 16 03:31:39 While webOS is booted, the doctor refuses to discover it at all. I need to boot the Pre into Recovery mode to get the 'Next' button to appear. Afterwards it hangs at 1% Jun 16 03:31:57 It has been at 1% for half an hour now Jun 16 03:32:28 battery charged? Jun 16 03:32:37 Thats what I was thinking. Jun 16 03:32:43 100% charge. Jun 16 03:32:47 brb Jun 16 03:34:36 uNiXpSyChO: so what max value should we allow for memlimit? Jun 16 03:35:02 rwhitby: depends on logic to discover if on a Pre or Pre+ Jun 16 03:35:24 uNiXpSyChO: that won't be in any time soon, so what's the bounds for this alpha testing? Jun 16 03:35:36 i've only tested 32MB on the Pre as max and worked fine. Jun 16 03:35:51 so maybe 16, 32, 64, 128? Jun 16 03:35:54 why can't you easily figure out if you're on a pre or pre+ ? Jun 16 03:36:02 128MB? Brave man ;P Jun 16 03:36:17 bpadalino: it's easy, but something I'm too lazy to do until I get one :) Jun 16 03:36:22 gotcha Jun 16 03:36:26 :) Jun 16 03:36:30 uNiXpSyChO: 96? Jun 16 03:36:47 16, 24, 32, 48, 64, 96 ? Jun 16 03:36:49 yeah, 96 for now. Jun 16 03:37:07 16, 24, 32, 48, 64, 80, 96 ? Jun 16 03:37:10 Stick 128 in there for BeeRad. Jun 16 03:37:25 16, 24, 32, 48, 64, 80, 96, 128 ? Jun 16 03:37:35 i'm afraid the Pre will die of thrashing if someone set that Jun 16 03:37:37 maybe leave out 80 Jun 16 03:37:50 just make it a slider from [16,128] ? Jun 16 03:38:19 I dont want to be responsible for anybody elses bad choices. Doesn't mean I won't try it though. Jun 16 03:38:25 16, 24, 32, 48, 64, 96, 128 ? +8, +8, +16, +16, +32, +32 Jun 16 03:38:29 but you have a Pre+ Jun 16 03:38:33 True. Jun 16 03:38:55 bpadalino: a slider would require oil-level mojo skills, which I don't have Jun 16 03:39:12 rwhitby: Just put a warning with it. Jun 16 03:39:15 * uNiXpSyChO is waiting for the n00bs with a Pre setting 128MB and complaining Jun 16 03:39:19 rwhitby: nahhh, i bet with a little reading, we can figure it out easy peasy Jun 16 03:39:39 uNiXpSyChO: yeah, people are going to think bigger is better - it should be fun to watch Jun 16 03:40:07 http://developer.palm.com/palm-sdk/jsdoc/symbols/Mojo.Widget.html#.Slider - look.. it's basically done for you! :) Jun 16 03:40:16 ok, reinstalled kernel rebooted... still stuck at 500... reinstalled govnah, still stuck... Jun 16 03:40:20 I think I'm still a nOOb so I might be offended by said comments. lol Jun 16 03:40:30 cryptk|wirc: did you even install Uber? Jun 16 03:40:38 yes Jun 16 03:40:40 BeeRad: you're not a noob by any stretch of the word Jun 16 03:41:06 BeeRad: being able to participate correctly in a conversation in IRC immediately excludes you Jun 16 03:41:06 I had it running with SS 500/800 with compcache earlier Jun 16 03:41:32 cryptk|wirc: check /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_min_freq and /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_max_freq Jun 16 03:41:33 rwhitby: I may be the biggest nerd in here because I stick around and only understand a minuscule amount of what you guys are talking about. Jun 16 03:41:53 BeeRad: that's how it starts Jun 16 03:42:03 haha Jun 16 03:42:11 BeeRad: ask ka6sox how he started 6 years ago Jun 16 03:43:02 he was just going to edit some wiki pages. now he runs the infrastructure for at least 6 open source projects with hundreds of thousands of users depending on their uptime. Jun 16 03:43:15 Wow. Jun 16 03:43:44 If preware can download packages, you have ka6sox to thank. Jun 16 03:44:19 rwhitby, so I was thinking today that maybe we should move to a new "aupt" system Jun 16 03:44:49 uNiXpSyChO: it matches whatever I set in govnah Jun 16 03:44:56 one that doesn't touch actual palm files Jun 16 03:45:01 simply bind mounts over them Jun 16 03:45:20 but even with scalingminfreq at 600 and governor on screenstate I am at 500 Jun 16 03:45:44 which is also reported in cpuinfo_cur_freq Jun 16 03:45:59 cryptk|wirc: with screen on or off? Jun 16 03:46:11 egaudet: aufs? Jun 16 03:46:29 on Jun 16 03:46:44 not at a comp so I can't check it with it off Jun 16 03:46:59 well aufs would be an idea, but I was thinking about doing something similar to how redhat handles diskless clients Jun 16 03:47:33 cryptk|wirc: the govnah graph will say if it changes when off then back on Jun 16 03:48:04 it would mount -o bind /media/internal/ Jun 16 03:48:15 hey, I finally got it to work Jun 16 03:48:24 not sure how exactly... Jun 16 03:48:27 based on a list of files Jun 16 03:48:49 I had toggled screen many times and it would stay at 500 Jun 16 03:49:07 but I did sleep 5 && cat cpuinfo_cur_freq Jun 16 03:49:08 although whether it's bind mount or aufs, or other unionfs or overlay, that portion can be hashed out in a few different ways Jun 16 03:49:22 turned screen off for about 10 secs then back on Jun 16 03:49:28 and it was at 800 Jun 16 03:49:31 go figure Jun 16 03:49:38 virus? Jun 16 03:49:45 egaudet: bind mount individual files? Jun 16 03:49:52 rwhitby, yeah Jun 16 03:49:58 that's not gonna scale well Jun 16 03:50:28 it gives more control/security as well Jun 16 03:50:31 uNiXpSyChO: we can blame it on that, lol Jun 16 03:51:19 cryptk|wirc: lol. not sure what the problem was. but i know govnah graphs when 1st set doesnt update right away till you turn off the screen. Jun 16 03:51:20 what are the issues with bind mounting many individual files? Jun 16 03:51:59 except cat cpuinfo_cur_freq was reporting 500 also Jun 16 03:52:04 with screen on Jun 16 03:52:25 perhaps me poking it while she screen was off did something... Jun 16 03:52:57 cryptk|wirc: right, when you 1st set the governor it defaults to a low value till the screen turns off. Jun 16 03:53:11 on bootup it sets it correctly Jun 16 03:53:18 yes, but I had toggled the screen many times Jun 16 03:53:26 and rebooted Jun 16 03:53:30 then your phone is hosed Jun 16 03:53:36 not anymore Jun 16 03:53:44 it works great now, lol Jun 16 03:53:46 must be a virus ;P Jun 16 03:53:55 it came back like magic, lol Jun 16 03:54:13 I think the phone got scared that I was talking to you about it Jun 16 03:54:26 Just an observation: by my freq graph never changes on the timeline when the screen has been on or off. It stays at 800, unless.....I set the screen to a very dim setting (i.e. 9%) and when the screen dims before shutting off I actually see the screenstate kick in and work. It will fall to 500mhz before shutting off. Jun 16 03:54:32 I am on WIRC so the phone is listening in, lol Jun 16 03:55:09 how long are you leaving the screen off for? and what is min freq set to? Jun 16 03:55:41 Min 500 and screeen wil be off for short or long periods. Doesnt matter. Jun 16 03:56:21 It will only show variance when the screen has been dimmed an I can actually watch it drop right before shutting off. Jun 16 04:00:21 egaudet: my main issue would be not being able to read the output of the "mount" command :) Jun 16 04:04:02 grep -v Jun 16 04:04:16 lost internet for a bit there Jun 16 04:04:31 grep -v webos-internals-rootfs Jun 16 04:06:35 CRAP. I was totally torture testing this thing and it just Luna'd on me outta nowhere. Grrrrr.... Jun 16 04:08:34 wow... my internet is really suckin it up today... Jun 16 04:08:47 BeeRad: 0.4.4 coming up soon Jun 16 04:08:56 third time in an hour the cable modem dropped out Jun 16 04:09:18 rwhitby: Ok chief. Jun 16 04:09:22 so did anyone see what I said about the preware done updating feeds notification? Jun 16 04:09:47 how it would be nice if tapping it brought preware into focus. Jun 16 04:09:48 nope Jun 16 04:09:50 Its about bedtime here for me. Almost fell face first into my keyboard couple times. True story. Jun 16 04:10:06 is the keyboard ok? Jun 16 04:10:11 cryptk|wirc: ok, you'll want to grab oil for that one Jun 16 04:10:14 lol Jun 16 04:10:19 *almost* Jun 16 04:10:25 I will if I see him on Jun 16 04:10:45 BeeRad: 0.4.4 is up Jun 16 04:10:48 rwhitby: you think it is a good idea? I always find myself tapping it... Jun 16 04:10:55 rwhitby: Checking..... Jun 16 04:12:13 I really need to take some feeds out..... Jun 16 04:13:22 Boom. Got it. Jun 16 04:14:12 turn off the palm feeds but leave the update feeds on Jun 16 04:14:16 helps a ton Jun 16 04:14:47 that and turning off the theme feeds makes my preware load in ~30 seconds. Jun 16 04:15:21 in the bkgnd... 15 ish if focused. Jun 16 04:17:37 rwhitby: Its working. Jun 16 04:18:06 cryptk|wirc: that is the default for new preware installs now. no palm main feed, no themes. Jun 16 04:18:36 rwhitby: good call! Jun 16 04:19:05 I used to load them all, but it got ridiculous with the loading times... Jun 16 04:19:58 what is the hash code for logs again? ##LOGS#? Jun 16 04:20:17 yep Jun 16 04:29:12 sleepy time, ttyl everyone Jun 16 04:31:09 dBsooner: ping Jun 16 04:35:23 Everybody have a good morning/day/night wherever you are. Bedtime. Cya. Jun 16 04:56:09 hi everyone Jun 16 04:56:50 does anyone know the link for the kernel testing feed Jun 16 05:06:55 never mind I got it Jun 16 05:58:31 hi Jun 16 05:59:02 anybody here? Jun 16 06:00:12 yes Jun 16 06:00:21 hey playya Jun 16 06:00:24 121 guys and girls Jun 16 06:00:31 hey rwhitby Jun 16 06:00:40 how's FSO/Pre going? Jun 16 06:01:08 morphis encrypted some more modem messages Jun 16 06:01:13 yea i just recently bought the palm pre and webOS has major potential, can't wait to see what HP does with it Jun 16 06:01:22 but we need to integrate it into fso Jun 16 06:01:47 i have some problems with preboot Jun 16 06:02:48 you make apps playya right? Jun 16 06:03:07 we're workingg on our own distribution Jun 16 06:03:36 yea i think i downloaded some from preware Jun 16 06:03:45 good man good man Jun 16 06:04:59 anyy way to keep my pre from over heating Jun 16 06:05:10 it hit 109 fareheit the other day Jun 16 06:05:19 dont want it to brick you know? Jun 16 06:06:26 wow 42°C Jun 16 06:07:07 exactly, i immediately turned it off for the night, very weird, now it runs between 95-102 Jun 16 06:07:35 let me guess: you're using 3G network and WiFi Jun 16 06:07:57 no, only 3g Jun 16 06:08:14 it seemed to happen after i downloaded mytether app Jun 16 06:08:37 maybe jst i coincedence Jun 16 06:11:19 so, i tried the latest uber kernel from the testing feed and the new govnah. I have enabled 24mb compache. and my phone is now unresponisve Jun 16 06:11:45 i managed to get govnah open and can see that system load is over 7. but I can't get into a shell to see what is going on. Jun 16 06:11:57 take your hand, turn on the phone Jun 16 06:12:08 tell me when u did that Jun 16 06:12:52 go to the app launcher Jun 16 06:12:58 hrmm. i pushed the power button Jun 16 06:13:03 screen still dark Jun 16 06:13:24 oh it doesn't even turn on? Jun 16 06:13:29 oh it will Jun 16 06:13:33 ok Jun 16 06:13:35 it takes FOREVER Jun 16 06:13:42 yup Jun 16 06:13:55 i can just restart it, but i'd really like to know what it is doing Jun 16 06:14:18 do you have novaterm installed on your PC? Jun 16 06:14:19 did u try pouring some milk over it? Jun 16 06:14:27 devmode is off Jun 16 06:15:00 ssh is timing out over wifi, and apparently the evdo radio reconnected and the ppp up script hasn't updated my dynamic dns provider Jun 16 06:15:11 oh, the keybaord backlight just came on Jun 16 06:15:26 the milk trick always works Jun 16 06:16:55 i didn't even have a lot of cards open when this happened. messaging, two browser windows, and i really think that is about it Jun 16 06:17:26 its unresponsive in what way? Jun 16 06:17:28 oh, the keyboard back light turned off and the screen never came on. I guess I'm going to give up trying to figure out what it is doing Jun 16 06:17:49 adrenaline360: push power button or open slider in attempt to use phone Jun 16 06:18:03 4 minutes later and the hone hasn't "woke up" Jun 16 06:18:21 sometimes it does, but luna doesn't take any input. Jun 16 06:18:32 i managed to get the applauncher up and govnah started one time Jun 16 06:18:56 and saw a system load something like 5.5 6.66 7.0 Jun 16 06:19:25 why don't you try earasing the phone totally? Jun 16 06:19:57 because nothing is wrong iwth the phone Jun 16 06:20:02 oh, screen came on Jun 16 06:20:21 govnah is still minimized, and the load was actually 5.94 6.66 7.05 Jun 16 06:20:28 wtf!!! of course there is if the phone turns on sometimes Jun 16 06:20:42 trying to bring govnah to the foreground Jun 16 06:21:30 adrenaline360: no, my issue is latest testing kernel and govnah. enabled compache 24mb, left userspace governer and opened a few cards Jun 16 06:21:53 now system load is through the roof and the phone is super sluggish Jun 16 06:22:12 ok shut off all apps Jun 16 06:22:32 I CAN"T Jun 16 06:22:44 ok so thats your problem Jun 16 06:22:56 and you say u cant turn the phone off right? Jun 16 06:23:00 there is a 1 million second time delay on any user input because of system load Jun 16 06:23:11 i haven't tried to power it down or reboot it Jun 16 06:23:29 i really want to get a shell up so i can see what process is eating all the cpu time Jun 16 06:23:32 why not Jun 16 06:23:50 you can do that by connecting it to the pc Jun 16 06:23:54 and because i know that willl fix the issue Jun 16 06:23:59 adrenaline360: devmode is off Jun 16 06:24:03 ssh times out Jun 16 06:24:17 and there is no way for u to turn it on? Jun 16 06:24:38 turning devmode on would reboot the phone Jun 16 06:24:43 before it enables. Jun 16 06:24:53 yes Jun 16 06:24:54 but again, there is a 1 million second lag on any user input Jun 16 06:25:09 ok well wait for a million seconds if thats all you can do Jun 16 06:26:20 mine is also kinda sluggish Jun 16 06:26:22 i pushed the power button at time :13, the keyboard backlight came on at time :15, the screen came on at time :20 Jun 16 06:26:31 it is now time :26 Jun 16 06:27:07 when u pushed it was it on? Jun 16 06:27:18 at time :20 when the screen came on, luna was in card view, govnah in front of the screen small. I tapped on it and am still waiting for govnah to come to the foreground Jun 16 06:27:28 aha Jun 16 06:27:31 the phone was on in sleep Jun 16 06:27:35 ok Jun 16 06:27:41 i tried to wake it up 14 minutes ago Jun 16 06:27:44 pull the battery out Jun 16 06:27:49 very simple Jun 16 06:28:11 OHH< I just saw the tap animation from when I tapped the screen 7 minutes ago Jun 16 06:28:31 and govnah just got big... Jun 16 06:28:39 and now the phone rebooted itself Jun 16 06:28:44 guess i was out of memory Jun 16 06:28:53 wow so...... Jun 16 06:29:01 I'm done testing compache for this kernel version Jun 16 06:29:19 what is compache Jun 16 06:29:21 and I know the phone rebootecd because the palm logo isn't flashing Jun 16 06:29:32 thats good Jun 16 06:29:49 compache is: http://lwn.net/Articles/334649/ Jun 16 06:30:49 why would you want to do that? Jun 16 06:31:38 see http://twitter.com/webosinternals for links to forum threads Jun 16 06:31:54 but the short of it is as a way to avoid "too many cards" Jun 16 06:32:10 ping rwhitby Jun 16 06:32:20 so it just warns u? Jun 16 06:32:43 i had 18 cards up at most....i was testing it out Jun 16 06:43:23 PullingJ: yes Jun 16 06:44:10 I just wrote about an issue i had with the test kernel with compach enabled here Jun 16 06:44:28 yes, and I see that adrenaline360 is having some fun ... Jun 16 06:44:36 yep Jun 16 06:44:47 oh you guys can see that? Jun 16 06:45:19 the only thing i can think of is that I masshed the apply button many times in govnah for enabling comapche becuase it didn't seem to be sticking enabled or to the size I picked Jun 16 06:45:53 PullingJ: let's start at the beginning. versions of webOS, Preware, UberKernel and Govnah please Jun 16 06:46:20 uberkernel is some kind of VERY cool popcorn things Jun 16 06:47:19 PullingJ: which version of Uber? Jun 16 06:48:09 rwhitby: sprint pre 1.4.1.1, uber 1.4.1-37, govnah .4.4 Jun 16 06:48:31 PullingJ: the distraction seems to have gone away :) Jun 16 06:48:37 haha Jun 16 06:48:53 PullingJ: ok, can you get a dbus-util -capture govnah happening while you enable compcache/ Jun 16 06:48:55 ? Jun 16 06:49:08 sure Jun 16 06:50:20 webos.pastebin.com that and let me knwo Jun 16 06:50:22 is dbus-util --capture supposed to stay running? Jun 16 06:50:39 yep, but sometimes it exits for some reason Jun 16 06:50:46 it dumped 5 lines and returned to the command line, Jun 16 06:50:49 ok i'll try again Jun 16 06:50:52 yep Jun 16 06:51:54 does that slow down the program, because govnah isn't populating the settings scene Jun 16 06:53:36 it shouldn't Jun 16 06:53:54 well i stopped the capture, got the setting scene open and restarted the capture: http://webos.pastebin.com/ny1kevc0 Jun 16 06:55:45 PullingJ: set the polling interval to 1min to get rid of the noise Jun 16 06:55:55 then do a capture as you set compcache Jun 16 06:55:58 ok, Jun 16 06:57:29 well the capture quit on it's own when i hit apply, does this get you what you needed to see? http://webos.pastebin.com/yLqtFN8x Jun 16 06:57:50 and is it possible to enable more than one "compache" by mashing the apply button many times? Jun 16 06:58:16 have you guys gotten compcache working? Jun 16 07:02:18 beelzabub: yeah, it's in UberKernel 1.4.x-37 and enabled and disabled by Govnah 0.4.4 Jun 16 07:02:41 you can set the memlimit in Govnah, and it just uses the normal LVM partition for backing_swap Jun 16 07:02:46 does it improve anything? Jun 16 07:04:11 beelzabub: it seems to, but we've changed the lowmemnotify thresholds (by making them based on (used ram + used swap)/(total ram+ total swap) instead of how there were before (which I think is a bug) Jun 16 07:04:32 so we changed two things at once, both of which seem to improve things Jun 16 07:04:57 we chose those thresholds on purpose i believe so that we don't go into swap when apps launch Jun 16 07:05:02 in the official palm code, the thresholds are calculated as (used ram + used swap)/(total ram) Jun 16 07:05:38 the trouble is that when you get an appreciable amount of swap used sitting there, then you can't open any more cards no matter how much free ram you've got Jun 16 07:05:45 in that mode, the more swap you use, the more memory pressure it looks like you have Jun 16 07:06:03 hmm.... good point Jun 16 07:06:38 but if you free an apps memory, & it has stuff in swap, swap stuff gets freed to, right? Jun 16 07:06:55 so the question would be why you got into swap to begin with Jun 16 07:07:11 it should really be used ram / total ram Jun 16 07:07:23 at least that's my opinion Jun 16 07:07:31 opening 3D games and other big mem apps like Preware will take you into swap easily Jun 16 07:08:00 and I'm not seeing the swap clear, even though there is enough free ram to do so. you can force it with a swapoff of course Jun 16 07:08:11 the point is the performance of the system slows down to a crawl if you start swapping Jun 16 07:08:24 agreed. and that is what compcache helps. Jun 16 07:09:16 morning Jun 16 07:09:17 it will be interesting to see how people react after the initial novelty of being able to open more cards wears off - whether the swapping latency (even with compcache) will make them think twice about the benefits Jun 16 07:09:40 i'm not convinced by compcache - cause you're trading off CPU cycles compressing/uncompressing RAM & you have fewer pages for actual data Jun 16 07:09:41 hi rwhitby Jun 16 07:09:56 beelzabub: I'm seeing 3:1 compression ratios Jun 16 07:10:01 and hi beelzabub Jun 16 07:10:06 hey swisstomcat Jun 16 07:10:18 what is the recommended starting compache allocation size? Jun 16 07:10:21 and it elides zero pages too (dunno if normal swap to flash does that) Jun 16 07:10:25 sure, but that would only help if you need to swap Jun 16 07:10:35 & once you do, you've got the hit of compressing Jun 16 07:10:40 beelzabub: it seems Pre power users need to swap :) Jun 16 07:10:47 followed by the hit of uncompressing once you need to swap the compressed stuff Jun 16 07:10:59 so then why not just adjust the memchute limits Jun 16 07:11:26 beelzabub: Govnah will allow both - adjust the limits, and separately enable or disable compcache Jun 16 07:11:28 hmm - ok, i guess once you actually start hitting swap, compcache would be a win Jun 16 07:11:57 i don't think it's worthwhile on the pre+ Jun 16 07:12:02 it's only for pre & pixie Jun 16 07:12:08 rather it only makes sense for those two Jun 16 07:12:09 it would be nice if a future webos device had more ram :) Jun 16 07:12:20 >512MB Jun 16 07:12:25 the reaction from those that are being vocal about it (which may or may not be representative of Palm's total customer base) is that they are prepared for things to slow down rather than getting TMC errors Jun 16 07:12:55 and for me personally, the swap not clearing problem is a real one. Jun 16 07:12:57 i have never run into a TMC error on+ that wasn't the cause of a memory leak Jun 16 07:13:11 rwhitby, you're seeing swap usage constantly increase? Jun 16 07:13:21 i have TMC errors from time to time and problems recovering from it Jun 16 07:13:29 e.g closing cards doesn't help Jun 16 07:13:30 beelzabub: no, I'm seeing my device get into swap, and have lots of free ram but never clear the swap Jun 16 07:14:08 what do you mean by "clear the swap" Jun 16 07:14:36 beelzabub: swap used going back to zero, so that it doesn't remain part of the mem usage calculation Jun 16 07:15:06 (since TMC calc only has total mem as the denominator) Jun 16 07:15:17 rwhitby - it doesn't matter Jun 16 07:15:55 let me give you a scenario to see if i'm understanding your problem better Jun 16 07:16:01 you launch a bunch of apps Jun 16 07:16:08 swap keeps increasing in usage Jun 16 07:16:14 you throw away apps Jun 16 07:16:22 free usage decreases, but swap stays the same Jun 16 07:16:26 correct? Jun 16 07:16:38 rather free ram increases Jun 16 07:16:46 that's common Jun 16 07:16:57 the stuff in swap wont come back until something pages it back in Jun 16 07:16:59 correct, and I agree that it shouldn't affect the TMC calculcation, cause you're just moving stuff from one side of the addition to the other in the numerator Jun 16 07:17:04 if it was rarely used bits it'll just stay there Jun 16 07:17:36 rwhitby - right. so what's the issue? Jun 16 07:18:25 geist: would it make sense to bring back code pages back into ram pre-emptively? Jun 16 07:18:39 beelzabub: good question. I've set the thresholds to 200%, and I still get LunaSysMgr telling me that it can't open stuff due to not enough free memory, so there's some other trigger in there somewhere that I haven't found yet. changing the calculation basis, however, seems to matter. Jun 16 07:18:39 not really Jun 16 07:18:54 what makes the most sense to to avoid having 'dead code' like that in the first place Jun 16 07:19:18 beelzabub: I don't fully understand the interaction between LunaSysMgr and /dev/memchute yet, so there could easily be something I'm missing Jun 16 07:19:28 rwhitby: just adjust the levels in /sys/module/lowmemnotify/parameters/thresholds_enter Jun 16 07:19:30 & /sys/module/lowmemnotify/parameters/thresholds_leave Jun 16 07:19:44 that works for me without modifying the kernel code Jun 16 07:20:01 beelzabub: yes, I've done that. the requiredMemory attribute in appinfo.json doesn't seem to take notice of those Jun 16 07:20:20 there's a glib adapter that notifiy LSM when memchute has a notification Jun 16 07:20:33 LunaSysMgr will still refuse to open a 3D game unless actual free ram is there, no matter how much free swap you've got Jun 16 07:20:34 if we go into lowmem, then no apps will launch Jun 16 07:20:47 yup Jun 16 07:20:50 that's correct Jun 16 07:21:42 if a native app has a requiredMemory amount that'll push things out to swap, it's not allowed Jun 16 07:21:51 so I guess the scenario is when someone has a number of idle background things in memory, which could easily be bumped to swap without affecting the operation of the game once the flash write is complete, but will stop you starting the game at all. Jun 16 07:22:28 rwhitby - careful. "idle background things" glosses over a lot of things Jun 16 07:22:45 what happens when you get an sms, e-mail, etc Jun 16 07:22:49 or worse, a phone call Jun 16 07:23:04 indeed. Jun 16 07:23:09 in the former, the game performance will degrade unnecessarily Jun 16 07:23:23 in the latter, you'd rather handle the phone call Jun 16 07:23:57 yes, it's not a trade-off that Palm would want to make for the whole customer base. agreed. Jun 16 07:24:09 right Jun 16 07:26:07 so my understanding at the moment is that lowmemnotify memory pressure will cause normal apps to stop being launched, and other actions (like clearing caches for browser windows), and that LunaSysMgr independently looks at free ram when determining whether a requiredMemory constraint can be met. Jun 16 07:26:27 i believe it's something like that Jun 16 07:26:34 changing the thresholds changes the former behaviour, but not the latter. Jun 16 07:26:50 right Jun 16 07:26:59 it has a heuristic for regular apps Jun 16 07:27:08 so it actually does the same thing for them Jun 16 07:27:31 LunaSysMgr had both MemFree and MemchuteFree strings in it, so I didn't know for sure which was being used for what :) Jun 16 07:27:52 1 sec - let me look at the code to tell you how it works Jun 16 07:28:28 ah, that explains why changing thresholds didn't fix launching normal apps, but changing the calc (and therefore MemchuteFree in /proc/meminfo) did allow apps to be launched. Jun 16 07:28:31 btw, changing those thresholds worked for me as far as regular apps. i ran a large binary under gdb & i once i changed the thresholds LSM was ok launching apps Jun 16 07:29:04 hmm - I need to go back and look at that again then. I can't say that I did a well controlled experiment on that. Jun 16 07:29:28 ahh Jun 16 07:29:30 found the logic Jun 16 07:29:35 for native app Jun 16 07:29:41 so uh Jun 16 07:29:48 if we're not currently in no memory pressure, then no native apps launch Jun 16 07:29:49 is there a quick and handy ssh client for the palm pre yet? Jun 16 07:30:24 beelzabub: native = type game and such, or normal mojo ? Jun 16 07:30:29 game & such Jun 16 07:30:35 ShadeS: only on the command line via terminal Jun 16 07:31:19 ok, so abnormal pressure => no SDL apps Jun 16 07:31:25 1 sec Jun 16 07:31:31 i'm trying to figure out the formula Jun 16 07:31:34 no Jun 16 07:31:41 that is a governing condition Jun 16 07:31:54 if it's in no memory pressure, it uses a formual Jun 16 07:31:55 i'm looking to ssh to my shell for use of irc mainly Jun 16 07:32:03 i haven't up up down downed mine yet Jun 16 07:32:19 ShadeS: there is no ssh client outside of homebrew Jun 16 07:32:28 beh Jun 16 07:32:29 ShadeS: look for wIRC in homebrew Jun 16 07:32:38 remind me why I got palm instead of android again? Jun 16 07:32:42 wIRC is great Jun 16 07:32:48 hopefully my teather application that was for my treo 700 will work Jun 16 07:32:54 i really regret it not having an sdcard slot Jun 16 07:33:14 ShadeS: webos complaints -> #webos please :) Jun 16 07:33:54 lol Jun 16 07:34:07 beelzabub: so abnormal pressure is an override, and for normal pressure it does requiredMem check? Jun 16 07:34:46 1 sec Jun 16 07:34:48 ok Jun 16 07:35:09 (MemTotal - MemchuteFree) + swapUsed + requiredMemory + slack for native running native apps Jun 16 07:35:23 where slack is the difference between requiredMemory & how much it's actually using Jun 16 07:36:34 if that sum / MemTotal > memchute critical threshold, then it's not allowed Jun 16 07:36:48 if the critical threshold is 0, then all apps are allowed Jun 16 07:38:29 ok, that explains why adding swapfree into memchutefree allowed native apps, since it would have made the first part of that formula negative Jun 16 07:38:55 it also explains why the LunaSysMgr strace was checking /proc/pid/statm Jun 16 07:39:14 so if we set critical threshold to 0, then it overrides all other checks? Jun 16 07:39:40 it should Jun 16 07:39:45 at least as far as native apps Jun 16 07:39:50 i'm trying to find the code for webapps Jun 16 07:41:41 i believe if a webapp loads & there's a lowmem notification while it's loading, it's shut down Jun 16 07:42:43 but other than that, apps are allowed to launch Jun 16 07:42:56 hope that helps Jun 16 07:43:09 ah, so it's a reactive action for mojo apps, rather than preemptive Jun 16 07:43:26 looks like Jun 16 07:44:01 what I was hoping to do for compcache is be able to adjust the thresholds to take into account the tiny extra ram you get from the compression factor into compcache swap Jun 16 07:44:22 and allow apps to launch up to that higher threshold Jun 16 07:44:50 i think adjusting the memchute free value will give you that Jun 16 07:45:28 yeah, currently I've got it as memfree+swapfree but that's way too high Jun 16 07:45:46 (unless you're happy to miss calls and stuff) Jun 16 07:45:47 it would be memfree + savings from compression Jun 16 07:46:26 maybe apply some cost factor to the savings from compression to account for the memcpy cost Jun 16 07:46:40 yeah, I'd probably want it selectable from current value to memfree+savings to all out don't care about calls Jun 16 07:47:01 who uses their smartphone for calls anyway :) Jun 16 07:47:12 and one settings for the "I'm proving to this iphone user how many cards I can open at the same time" scenario Jun 16 07:47:13 yeah seriously Jun 16 07:47:19 i don't want to pay 50$/mo for voice service i don't use Jun 16 07:47:39 i have half a mind to go to sprint's website and renegotiate my service to a data only plan because I became deaf Jun 16 07:47:45 bill collectors don't send texts anyway Jun 16 07:48:09 I only have voice service on one out of 6 webOS devices on my desk at the moment Jun 16 07:49:04 admittedly only 2 of them actually work as phones in this country Jun 16 07:50:08 beelzabub: did I tell you about the device I have where the kernel can't talk to the GSM modem? Jun 16 07:50:36 same here, 2 devices i have won't work in my country Jun 16 07:50:44 it was sucking battery too hard continuously looking, so I swapped in a CDMA comms board :) Jun 16 07:51:11 except now it looks like the touchscreen connector is flakey: cy8mrln: Scan timed out Jun 16 07:52:17 lots of wiggling and pushing gets: cy8mrln: Bad SOF:Got[0x00,0xaa] Expected[0x0D, 0x0A or 0x0B](SCN) Jun 16 07:52:23 and then it starts working again Jun 16 07:54:22 i dunno - the only modem work i did was trying to track down a state machine problem between kernel & the modem Jun 16 07:54:46 i had to see a therapist afterwards Jun 16 07:54:53 heh Jun 16 07:55:11 rwhitby: flakey tc connectors can't be fixed? Jun 16 07:55:17 I'm assuming the previous owner did something that stuffed the modem firmware, and it's in a state where the USB enumeration no longer works Jun 16 07:55:30 swisstomcat: probably can, but it's quite deep down. Jun 16 07:55:52 and I have spare fronts galore. it was the GSM comms board I was hoping to salvage out of this device :( Jun 16 07:56:17 because one of my devices had tc problems .. open/close slider or insert/remove usb-connector made it work again sometimes Jun 16 07:56:20 I haven't actually taken the slider off the front on this device yet Jun 16 07:56:35 swisstomcat: yeah, sounds like the same symptoms. Jun 16 07:56:35 hrmm Jun 16 07:56:47 swisstomcat: did you look at the kernel log when it had problems? Jun 16 07:56:53 i just got a TMC error while the device was sitting on the table idle??? Jun 16 07:57:21 rwhitby: i didn't Jun 16 07:57:29 i sent it in for repairs Jun 16 07:58:11 5 cards open :( Jun 16 07:58:26 ah warrany, that's a luxury I don't have. Jun 16 07:58:44 they said it would take up to 5-6 weeks (sent to germany) Jun 16 07:59:17 5 cards leads to a TMC while idle .. never had that before Jun 16 07:59:17 ? Jun 16 08:01:12 ok, let's take uber off this device, and test the critical=0 theory of opening unlimited 3D games Jun 16 08:08:34 rwhitby - did it explode? Jun 16 08:10:40 [echo "0,0,0,0" > /sys/module/lowmemnotify/parameters/thresholds_enter] got me a "Memory critical, too many cards!" notification :) Jun 16 08:13:32 critical is the thirdfield Jun 16 08:13:44 you're leaving normal mode right away with your settings Jun 16 08:13:47 into memory low Jun 16 08:13:51 you'll never launch anything Jun 16 08:15:01 ah, so I need 0,100,0,0 Jun 16 08:15:39 no Jun 16 08:15:56 500,510,0,530 Jun 16 08:16:24 err... am i being stupid? Jun 16 08:16:47 sorry - 0,500,0,530 Jun 16 08:16:55 that'll essentially never get into low state Jun 16 08:17:10 which kinda sucks] Jun 16 08:17:22 cause in the low state v8 is more agressive about doing gc Jun 16 08:19:57 hmm - 0,500,0,530 got me straight into critical too Jun 16 08:21:14 rwhitby: Preware tells me that TimeTracker on the Precentral feed has an update. But when is select intall it only takes me to the precentral webpage of the app instaed of installing it. Jun 16 08:21:31 I expect there is a error in the feed Jun 16 08:22:14 is timetracker available on precentral and in the app catalog? Jun 16 08:22:52 most likely same appid in both causes that Jun 16 08:23:15 ok - just use a really high value for critical then Jun 16 08:23:36 0, 500, 520, 530 Jun 16 08:23:48 i think the problem is that if it's 0, then memchute will transition to it Jun 16 08:24:07 so that sysmgr will go into a non-ok memory state & thus never use the formula Jun 16 08:27:35 hape: strange, all 4 versions of timetracker have different appid's Jun 16 08:31:07 alright - good night people Jun 16 08:34:47 g'night beelzabub Jun 16 08:36:28 nope, still get TMC on the second 3D game with 0,500,520,530 Jun 16 08:38:02 good night, beelzabub Jun 16 08:39:32 ah, I wonder if the critical threshold == 0 is actually memchute not running ... Jun 16 08:41:10 re all. I like the new mem/swap display in govnah. but shouldn't it be 2 lines? Jun 16 08:43:28 jhoplus: it's a work in progress Jun 16 08:43:56 what you see is the result of my work, not oil's yet :) Jun 16 08:43:56 =) just asking not throwing hate Jun 16 08:44:02 poor oil Jun 16 08:44:16 lol Jun 16 08:44:36 I was stretching my javascript skills just getting one line to display :) Jun 16 08:44:43 poor oil Jun 16 08:45:00 but all of /proc/meminfo is there for oil to work his magic with ... Jun 16 08:45:30 that will require me to stop working on wirc :) Jun 16 08:45:47 do it! Jun 16 08:45:53 need any help? Jun 16 08:46:07 ka6sox-work: btw I have another idea for syshealth Jun 16 08:46:18 i know it's hard to coordinate between two people Jun 16 08:46:31 jhoplus, I'm all ears. Jun 16 08:46:43 but maybe some work can be split up independently Jun 16 08:46:46 a script that fixes the missing bookmarks problem for people Jun 16 08:47:34 oh, thats good. Jun 16 08:48:03 it turns out that the wikipage I was looking for is simply called "health" Jun 16 08:48:17 so put the scripts that you have in that page please? Jun 16 08:48:28 I need to test it out again but basically it remove the -lock_ dumps the sqlite db into a new one Jun 16 08:48:29 swisstomcat: we need the governor settings page in govnah to have separate sections for cpufreq and compcache, just like preware preferences page Jun 16 08:48:58 ka6sox-work: put the scripts the vs git? Jun 16 08:49:13 there I meant Jun 16 08:49:22 Git would be good but an explaination in the wiki would be helpful too. Jun 16 08:49:32 lol. okay Jun 16 08:49:54 jhoplus, how much caching does the browser do? Jun 16 08:50:18 no idea. never tested. Jun 16 08:50:30 rwhitby: understood ... can i access the govnah git? Jun 16 08:50:55 jhoplus, I've seen browser caching stuff up small memory model devices. Jun 16 08:51:21 would be good to test. I remember the iphone browser having limitations a while ago Jun 16 08:51:59 I.e. js/css was not getting cached due to the sizes being too large Jun 16 08:52:15 look at that image: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/06/evo-overclock.jpg Jun 16 08:52:39 jhoplus, also history as well...maybe we could find that as well. Jun 16 08:52:56 probably in a db. Jun 16 08:53:29 duuno. on the phone right now. will have to look Jun 16 08:54:00 k..np...its just things I've been thinking about that can take up space. Jun 16 08:54:09 someone needs to build an app for viewing sqlite dbs =) Jun 16 08:54:34 phpymadmin seems a bit excessive :D Jun 16 08:54:45 but ya...that would be good. Jun 16 08:55:08 ka6sox-work: while you are at it you can run the webos browser against browserscope.org Jun 16 08:55:14 swisstomcat: yep, you can Jun 16 08:55:24 jhoplus, will do. Jun 16 08:55:45 rwhitby: allright, i can work on it tomorrow and friday Jun 16 08:56:05 I must say a pre plus is much nicer than a pre due to the extra mem. Jun 16 08:56:14 jhoplus: there's gotta be an app you can run on lighttpd on the Pre to deal with dbs Jun 16 08:56:15 and better keyboard Jun 16 08:56:29 jhoplus, also some apps leave services still running listening to dbus. Jun 16 08:56:38 no lighthttpd for me Jun 16 08:56:46 ka6sox-work: what apps? Jun 16 08:57:11 I'm bummed no one has yet packaged nginx for webos Jun 16 08:57:14 wircd,for sure. Jun 16 08:57:21 nginx is your friend =) Jun 16 08:57:24 let me look. Jun 16 08:57:43 jhoplus: you mean like http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/unstable/nginx_0.7.66-1_arm.ipk ? Jun 16 08:58:08 oh that's new =) Jun 16 08:58:29 jhoplus: just do a copy of the lighttpd package in preware/build.git/optware/lighttpd/Makefile and you should be able to get an nginx Preware package to pop out the other end Jun 16 08:58:44 I didn't see that when I looked a long time ago. Jun 16 08:59:38 swisstomcat: so is there a way for me as user to fix it to be able to update timetrack? Jun 16 08:59:57 rwhitby if I push that into git. does it automagically get picked up by the autobuilder or do you need to do more work Jun 16 09:00:12 jhoplus: put it in testing first Jun 16 09:00:29 it'll automatically appear in the testing feed then Jun 16 09:01:14 ok. will look tomorrow Jun 16 09:01:44 /var/usr/sbin/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice Jun 16 09:02:51 btw the pre battery runs for multiple days when only wifi is enabled and the phone not used =) Jun 16 09:03:11 too many phones now. need more tocuhstones Jun 16 09:03:29 ka6sox-work: that services *has* to keep running, or else it won't be ready for when Preware calls it next Jun 16 09:04:19 * rwhitby has 5 working webOS devices, and 5 touchstones, and as of today, 5 touchstone backs. Jun 16 09:05:04 also wanted: a decent craigslist app for webos Jun 16 09:05:14 oil: Mojo.Controller.errorDialog didn't work Jun 16 09:05:22 oh Jun 16 09:05:44 i copy/pasted that to you from an the xbl app Jun 16 09:05:48 just did nothing. nothing in /var/log/messages, nothing on the screen, nothing. not even when called in an assistant Jun 16 09:05:58 Mojo.Controller.errorDialog(payload.errorText + '
' + payload.stdErr?payload.stdErr.join('
'):""); Jun 16 09:06:57 i dont think it does html by default Jun 16 09:08:38 rwhitby I thought you had more devices than that. Jun 16 09:08:58 those are just the webos devices :D Jun 16 09:09:05 he he Jun 16 09:09:06 jhoplus: 2 more in pieces, 1 more not really working, 2 more in transit Jun 16 09:09:29 10 all up, 5 working on my desk. Jun 16 09:09:43 btw I saw someone on precentral say that internals was working on overclocking the pixi. true or just a joke? Jun 16 09:10:04 rwhitby lol. more like it. Jun 16 09:10:05 "mother may I have a clock" Jun 16 09:10:18 jhoplus: not overclock, but maybe compcache Jun 16 09:10:40 I have 3 pluses now but my main phone is still the sprint. Jun 16 09:10:58 jhoplus, I"ve not read anywhere of the MSM7227 being "overclocked" Jun 16 09:10:59 the two in transit are pluses - one pre one pixi Jun 16 09:11:29 rwhitby: that's what I figured. compcache wold be good since the poor pixi is mem limited too Jun 16 09:11:32 compcache would probably help a pixi/pixi plus. Jun 16 09:12:00 ka6sox-work: me neither which is why I was asking Jun 16 09:12:01 hopefully I'll find out soon. Jun 16 09:12:27 I expect a Pixi and a Pixi Plus here tommorrow. Jun 16 09:12:43 O Jun 16 09:12:47 i'm looking for a star-shaped command-menu icon .. any hints? Jun 16 09:13:05 famfamfam? Jun 16 09:13:24 jhoplus, I'll probably only get to play with the Pixi between midngiht and 6am though. Jun 16 09:13:38 no webos-internals project uses one yet? Jun 16 09:13:54 ka6sox-work: gf's? Jun 16 09:14:02 wife's Jun 16 09:14:16 ka6sox-work: didn't get one for the gf too ;) Jun 16 09:14:16 same. =) Jun 16 09:14:36 um....wouldn't fit on the "Family Plan" Jun 16 09:14:54 family + 1 Jun 16 09:15:25 "extended family" Jun 16 09:15:29 indeed. Jun 16 09:15:49 she actually liked the pixi plus I had for a bit. Jun 16 09:16:07 so since sprint still doesnt have a Plus I got her a Pixi. Jun 16 09:16:32 ka6sox-work: according to usps that package should be here tomorrow Jun 16 09:17:00 rwhitby, kewl...according to fedex I should have the pixi/pixi plus here tommorrow too. Jun 16 09:17:08 (in fact it probably should have been here today - it got out of customs in Sydney yesterday) Jun 16 09:17:17 wow... Jun 16 09:17:32 that was FAST. Jun 16 09:17:47 well, you do live at the exit port :) Jun 16 09:18:21 yes, I do...turn left here and you had better be wearing your water wings. Jun 16 09:18:53 okay. so we can't get rid of the 2 memory hogs....yet Jun 16 09:19:08 but 1 *may* be going. Jun 16 09:19:13 its 22M resident Jun 16 09:19:20 I wonder. if you enter a previously US activated palm profile onto a new phone say in australia if the palm catalog would work.. Jun 16 09:19:38 jhoplus, we shall see tommorrow. :D Jun 16 09:20:13 btw I discovered a bug in the profile creation process. Jun 16 09:20:36 serious? Jun 16 09:20:58 you can create a profile of the form foo+bar@gmail.com on the phone and it works fine Jun 16 09:21:05 ouch....66M resident....can't fix that. Jun 16 09:21:34 but if you try to go to the web page to log in. it says invalid email address Jun 16 09:21:56 not enough checking for invalid char entry. Jun 16 09:22:02 jhoplus: heh, so you can never get to it again Jun 16 09:22:03 yup Jun 16 09:22:07 ka6sox-work: no, too much checking Jun 16 09:22:14 rwhitby exactly Jun 16 09:22:28 I should be able to have rod+pre1, rod+pre2, .... all going to the same gmail account :) Jun 16 09:22:40 told chuq. hopefully it'll get fixed soon. Jun 16 09:23:21 pretty big bug if you can't access ur profile =) Jun 16 09:25:24 ka6sox-work: what mem hogs ar you trying to track down? Jun 16 09:25:30 ok, the star icon from famfamfam looks quite ok Jun 16 09:26:12 famfamfam is quite useful Jun 16 09:26:43 jhoplus, any and all... Jun 16 09:26:47 just have to convert it to palm command icon style Jun 16 09:26:55 I reckon I know what these compcache failures are due to - I probably need a sleep between inserting the module and using it Jun 16 09:27:40 jhoplus, unfortunatly the 2 biggest offenders aren't something we can fix. Jun 16 09:27:44 (yet) Jun 16 09:28:41 see if you can convert lunasysmgr to run under dalvik =) Jun 16 09:29:01 thats 66M resident Jun 16 09:29:15 another 12 Shared Jun 16 09:29:36 but I'm sure it does a LOT. Jun 16 09:29:56 the second biggest thing that stays resident mostly is 22M of Java Jun 16 09:31:15 I should see if htop is available in optware. Jun 16 09:31:52 whoops Jun 16 09:31:53 ka6sox-work: it is Jun 16 09:32:02 ya, Its now installed. Jun 16 09:35:12 * rwhitby bbl Jun 16 09:40:42 man...pulseaudio is at a -4 nice...eww. Jun 16 09:44:02 the browser is pretty darned efficient though Jun 16 09:44:06 lsof. Jun 16 09:55:25 bbl Jun 16 09:56:07 nn Jun 16 10:17:29 rehi Jun 16 11:42:11 * en0x updated to alpha kernel ;d Jun 16 12:46:53 * rwhitby is currently hacking /proc/meminfo and /proc/%d/statm to display an unlimited amount of free ram and swap, to see if that will fool LunaSysMgr Jun 16 12:48:10 hehe Jun 16 12:48:17 hmm Jun 16 12:48:29 compcache i set it to 16MB when i set it to 24 I could only run one pdk game Jun 16 12:48:30 * uNiXpSyChO didnt i mention that days ago? ;-) Jun 16 12:48:33 wonder if that will fool users too ;) Jun 16 12:49:33 for sure it will fool u swisstomcat ;d Jun 16 12:58:20 wow, LunaSysMgr is sure persistent at getting memory information. three different places so far ... Jun 16 12:58:49 * rwhitby puts some more zeros in places where the kernel prints out memory usage information Jun 16 12:59:16 uNiXpSyChO: you thought your lowmemnotify hack was ugly, you should see this stuff ... Jun 16 13:00:23 ;] Jun 16 13:02:50 fool me once, shame on me .. fool me twice ... Jun 16 13:05:23 heh - it's funny looking at a top(1) screen with all zeros in it ... Jun 16 13:06:19 gah! still too many cards. Jun 16 13:10:11 ah, I see. sum of requiredmem / memtotal Jun 16 13:10:26 so I need to make memtotal bigger too Jun 16 13:11:53 * rwhitby makes the kernel think it has ten times the memory ... Jun 16 13:12:12 well, makes anything reading /proc/meminfo think that, not the kernel itself Jun 16 13:14:00 uNiXpSyChO: so no matter what else we do to thresholds and lowmemnotify, native apps will still be limited by (sum of requiredMem attributes) < total_ram Jun 16 13:19:45 hah! gotcha LunaSysMgr! Jun 16 13:21:30 10x totalram => 7 3D games open Jun 16 13:23:25 wohoo Jun 16 13:26:13 rwhitby: And saht "only" by using this'ram compress' driver? Jun 16 13:27:15 hape: pardon? Jun 16 13:28:16 bbl Jun 16 13:33:13 rwhitby: you was plaiing with a kernal module that compresses parts of the ram to get more out of it. If I follow3ed the discussion right. Only what to know if that was the way that made your stament possible Jun 16 13:38:36 hape: I fooled the kernel into reporting the LunaSysMgr that it had 10x ram available. LunaSysMgr was then able to open 7 3D games. Of course the system was unusable once they were opened. Jun 16 13:39:14 hape: compcache support is in uberkernel 1.4.x-37 and Govnah 0.4.5 Jun 16 13:40:00 it does not allow you to run 7 3D games. Only 2 or 3. Jun 16 13:44:32 ok, thanks for the info update Jun 16 13:47:15 interestingly, people think it's the compcache kernel modules which are solving the TMC errors for them, when in fact it's actually the turning off of or modification of the lowmemnotify functionality which is doing that. Jun 16 13:47:28 compcache just makes things perform better when you finally do start going into swap Jun 16 15:26:46 Ive never been here in IRC, how do Iknow its working, i see a list of people, but nothing more Jun 16 15:27:53 so it means that it's working Jun 16 15:28:58 ok, i see you....wasnt sure if i had to go somewhere else to talk. I was hoping someone could help me with something thats rather easy for those of you experienced in Linux Jun 16 15:29:15 infobot, ask Jun 16 15:29:16 Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. Jun 16 15:30:05 anyone here that can help debug an opengl texture problem? Jun 16 15:30:07 hey guys, I have a quick question: where can I find nv_item 9000 in webos 1.4? I need to edit it to change to verizon and it's not showing up in qpst's nv_item reader, the list stops at around 4800 Jun 16 15:31:29 I I am on precentral forum, on a thread that has instructions on how to backup locally, for the purpose of transfering to a new handset, your SMS file....last year someone here helped me do it, succesfully....but I don't remember the steps taken, and the steps on the forum are gibberish to me, heres the forum thread, please let me know if you have a few miutes to help me: http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/187145-how-back-up Jun 16 15:34:08 hey jon that link is broken Jun 16 15:34:39 hmm, i just copy/pasted http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/187145-how-back-up-text-messages-when-exchanging-phones.html Jun 16 15:35:20 its titled How To: Back Up Text Messages When Exchanging Phones Jun 16 15:35:21 there we go, that wasn't the same link you just posted Jun 16 15:36:16 are you rooted? Jun 16 15:36:25 the instructions seem simple, but they were done for someone who is somewhat experienced.....im just missing a couple of steps in between Jun 16 15:36:26 yes Jun 16 15:37:06 as mentioned, in the past someone here said, do this, this, and this, and viola, i did it, and copied the one off the old phone, and over to the new phone Jun 16 15:38:23 where are you at right now? Jun 16 15:38:51 home, in front of pc, with pre, ready for help :-) Jun 16 15:39:25 haha i meant in terms of steps Jun 16 15:39:37 doesn't save/restore support text messages? Jun 16 15:39:38 lol Jun 16 15:39:47 If so, that's the magic solution.... Jun 16 15:39:53 Rick_work, backup only Jun 16 15:39:59 afaik Jun 16 15:40:01 ahhh Jun 16 15:40:57 I cant get started on any step, bcus step 2 says "copy", the writer wrote this assuming you knew how to get to the directory and copy.....he didnt write it for noobs, so missing steps on how to get there Jun 16 15:41:07 well i mean since you're rooted, you should just have to cd that directory, cp the file it said and then mv to the same directory once the new phone is on Jun 16 15:41:51 in my case, im only trying to copy the file to my pc, since the phone is going up for sale. Jun 16 15:41:52 just copy the palmdatabase.db3 from var to /media/internal and you allset then copy it from your pre to ur pc Jun 16 15:42:04 simpel Jun 16 15:42:06 ;] Jun 16 15:42:11 yeah, cd /var/luna/data/dbdata/ Jun 16 15:42:17 then cp palmdatabase.db3 Jun 16 15:42:39 i understand it sounds simple, but i need to know "how" to get to the directory, from the minute i plug my pre to usb, and how to locate file Jun 16 15:42:50 ok, give me a minute, pre is off Jun 16 15:42:58 if u don't know then u should probably learn some linux commands Jun 16 15:43:02 eot Jun 16 15:43:29 1) Plug the pre into the usb Jun 16 15:43:34 turning pre on. Jun 16 15:43:38 2) run NOVATERM.EXE Jun 16 15:43:43 on the pc. Jun 16 15:44:01 since people seem to be chatting, any idea why i can't find nv_item 9000 in webos 1.4? phone/sms/1x already working on verizon, but it's roaming and i need to edit that nv_item Jun 16 15:44:11 if you don't HAVE novaterm, you'll need to download it. Jun 16 15:44:40 phone still booting....takes forever Jun 16 15:44:41 3) cd /var/luna/data/dbdata/ Jun 16 15:44:48 rick, he said he's rooted, my guess is he just needed the linux commands to copy it over Jun 16 15:45:14 Rooted doesn't mean he has a command line. Rooted is a meaningless term in webOS. Jun 16 15:45:30 Rooted just means he turned on dev mode. Jun 16 15:45:32 well true, but i did assume he was in the terminal Jun 16 15:45:39 Rick_work: I think he means he bought a pre :D Jun 16 15:45:44 hahaha Jun 16 15:45:47 lol Jun 16 15:45:57 yes i just need commands from the moment i usb, and launch my shell client to access linux Jun 16 15:46:12 yup, so just cd /var/luna/data/dbdata/ Jun 16 15:46:20 shit... i'm out of smokes ;s Jun 16 15:46:35 then cp palmdatabase.db3 /media/internal Jun 16 15:46:39 4) cp palmdatabase.db /media/internal Jun 16 15:46:57 then, turn your pre into a usb drive and copy palmdatabase.db off onto your pc Jun 16 15:47:01 when i plug the phone to usb, do i have to change to USB mode? Jun 16 15:47:11 and then just usb it up, toss it on your comp, plug in the new pre, copy it back to the media, and then use the same command to cp it to /var/luna/data/dbdata Jun 16 15:47:17 yeah Jun 16 15:47:22 no, if you do that, then it's NOT a computer, it's a usb drive Jun 16 15:47:36 do NOT turn on USB mode. Jun 16 15:47:38 oh do you mean for copying it to your computer? Jun 16 15:47:39 yet Jun 16 15:47:55 no, i just plugged it to usb to get started from step 1 Jun 16 15:48:01 oh word no just charge Jun 16 15:48:03 then "just charge" Jun 16 15:48:13 ok, im leaving as just charge Jun 16 15:48:25 but jon_, what are you using to talk to the Pre? What terminal program? Jun 16 15:49:05 i just launched sss secure shell Jun 16 15:49:37 well, ok, as nice as that is, does that get you a shell ON THE PRE? Jun 16 15:50:07 i assume, but i need the command to log on Jun 16 15:50:23 man fuck that noise, just download putty and novaterm Jun 16 15:50:34 he doesn't need putty. Jun 16 15:50:42 it's the easiest way for sure Jun 16 15:50:45 jon_ there's no command to log on. Jun 16 15:50:57 if you're attached to the pre, you're logged on as root. Jun 16 15:51:11 when you launched ssh, how did you do that? Jun 16 15:51:21 i seen before where there is a prompt saying so, dont see it now Jun 16 15:51:21 do you see root@palm-webos-device or root@castle? Jun 16 15:51:36 i just launched the software i had downloaded on my pc Jun 16 15:51:51 those are the prompts i seen before, but dont see them now Jun 16 15:51:58 right. Jun 16 15:52:08 John, are you on windows/mac or linux??? Jun 16 15:52:26 i remember back then setting a user, but i wont even remember what that was Jun 16 15:52:33 windows Jun 16 15:52:39 okey dokkey Jun 16 15:52:45 let's get the heck out of ssh. Jun 16 15:52:59 i closed it Jun 16 15:53:48 doesnt that software Jason had wrote, have a thing where you can also get into linux? Jun 16 15:53:53 is your windows 32bit or 64bit? Jun 16 15:54:06 jon_ we have an easier way Jun 16 15:54:13 im on 32 Jun 16 15:54:47 http://tkgeisel.com/stuff/novaterm-1.zip Jun 16 15:54:54 get that Jun 16 15:55:07 i have that novaterm stuff from way back when i rooted Jun 16 15:55:16 ok, run novaterm.exe Jun 16 15:56:52 uNiXpSyChO, will there be a F-105, F-106 and are you doing only operational century series or any of the century series? (nothing to do with the excellent kernels you have been working on and all to do with century series aircraft.) Jun 16 15:56:59 downloading again, dont know where the heck the original is Jun 16 15:57:13 ok, novaterm is open Jun 16 15:57:30 k, connect to your pre and put in those commands we told you earlier Jun 16 15:57:35 and you'll be golden Jun 16 15:57:42 it says localhost Jun 16 15:58:33 i clicked connect and says failed to connect to novacomd Jun 16 15:58:46 dreadchicken, I don't want no kernel that has the nickname of "Thud" Jun 16 15:59:09 your phone's plugged in, just charging and it is recognized right? no missing drivers? Jun 16 15:59:21 it s charging Jun 16 15:59:31 next to the connect button says localhost Jun 16 15:59:45 should it be something different Jun 16 15:59:52 no, that should do it. Jun 16 15:59:55 nah Jun 16 16:00:04 great Jun 16 16:00:11 uh, jon_ do you have the SDK installed on this machine? Jun 16 16:00:24 on the pc? Jun 16 16:00:29 i have everything installed from when i originally rooted Jun 16 16:00:35 i have done this before Jun 16 16:00:42 i just dont rememeber how i got there Jun 16 16:01:08 i have literally been able to go to the directory, take the file from my old pre, and copy it over to a new pre Jun 16 16:01:18 someone here walked me through it Jun 16 16:01:35 rooted phone, created profile Jun 16 16:01:36 well, the thing is, we don't know HOW you connected to the pre. Jun 16 16:01:50 do you have webos quick install on this pc? Jun 16 16:02:08 yeah seriously jon, do they have service at hogwarts? Jun 16 16:02:13 that has a linux command line.... Jun 16 16:02:26 i do, thats why i was asking, Jun 16 16:03:16 ok, im getting the please connect the device error....this has happened in the past, jason told me how to fix it....but of course, i dont remember Jun 16 16:04:22 great.....this is why i cant connect Jun 16 16:04:22 power the phone off. Reboot the pc. Power the phone on Plug it back in Jun 16 16:05:02 wont work, i tried that last time, there was a something different jason had suggested, i believe this is mentioned in the forums....i guess i'll have to search Jun 16 16:07:38 downloading latest quick install to see if that might work Jun 16 16:09:32 turn dev mode on ;d Jun 16 16:10:08 ka6sox, well you could go with the official name of Thunderchief. Jun 16 16:11:01 dreadchicken, yep... Jun 16 16:11:06 was that upupdowndownleftrightbastart Jun 16 16:11:41 it was on Jun 16 16:11:45 at least he's not on the A's Jun 16 16:14:58 i alwayes mess that up Jun 16 16:15:19 fuck, i just used cdma workshop to edit nv_item 9000 and i lost my phone radio, now i gotta doctor it and start from the damn beginning Jun 16 16:15:22 great, the latest version ogf quick install is corrupt Jun 16 16:16:44 ok, installed...but still error of connect device...going to figure out what that is Jun 16 16:18:00 it means your novacom drivers on the pc aren't connecting to the pre. Jun 16 16:18:36 thats what im reinstalling Jun 16 16:18:44 dont u hate noobs Jun 16 16:19:38 psh, i just made a bigtime noob mess up. although i don't understand why, seeing as how all i did was edit one nv_item that a tutorial says to edit Jun 16 16:20:10 i clicked attempt to reinstall, not sure if it did, but restarting phone Jun 16 16:24:33 ok, that didnt work, going to follow the othr step to install novacom Jun 16 16:30:25 okay quick question, what's the proper way to change nv_item 9000 in cdma workshop? Jun 16 16:32:35 ok....forget it.....this is taking way tooo long, i have to coninue it later. Jun 16 16:46:36 hi all Jun 16 16:47:55 hi shura Jun 16 16:48:46 is there always so silent? Jun 16 16:48:53 skylink, hi Jun 16 16:49:18 haha seems that way, in the time that i've waited for an answer to my question, i figured out the problem lol Jun 16 16:49:34 i just realized that i began and ended that sentence with a laugh Jun 16 16:52:47 I try to solve my problem half year already, but can't. And nobody can't help me :( Jun 16 16:53:08 what's going on for you? Jun 16 16:53:53 I need Cyrillic input Jun 16 16:54:21 I don't know where I should to begin from Jun 16 16:55:02 oh man on your pre? i have no idea how to program any new keyboard input Jun 16 16:55:21 I sow program for Chinese input, but that program uses java service and I does not understand what does that java module Jun 16 16:55:40 i gotcha, did you check this out? http://www.ehow.com/how_6043369_type-_cyrillic_-alphabet-palm-pre.html Jun 16 16:55:48 at least it's a virtual keyboard solution Jun 16 16:56:07 no, it's not what I want Jun 16 16:56:27 I need hardware keyboard input Jun 16 16:56:37 in cyrillic, damn i have no idea how to do that Jun 16 16:56:37 virtual keyboard is inkonvenient Jun 16 16:57:16 if I need virtual keyboard I would get iPhone :) Jun 16 16:58:09 haha yeah, I hear ya. i'm sorry man, I don't know how to reroute keyboard entry to be cyrillic Jun 16 16:58:22 maybe someone else here might have an idea, but it's all about the waiting game until someone comes back Jun 16 17:06:59 is there a tool for packaging up an ipkg, or is that manually done with tar/ar? Jun 16 17:28:43 vibol, special tool. palm-package Jun 16 17:56:14 vibol, you can also use ipkg-utils (see build.git) Jun 16 17:56:44 palm-package is limited to standard appinfo.json containing packages i believe Jun 16 18:28:26 shura0 to the best of my knowledge no one has done alternate keyboard mappings for the hardware keyboard. If you found a chinese one that uses a java service, be aware that by this fall, the Java vm on the pre will be going away and will no longer be available. Jun 16 18:29:57 Rick_work, it's very bad! Jun 16 18:30:14 shura0 I agree. Jun 16 18:42:19 Rick_work, to there will be no more jar apps on webos? Jun 16 18:44:25 nope. None at all, period. Zip. No JVM, no java, none nada, zero, not there, missing utterly. Jun 16 18:44:45 for great justice Jun 16 18:44:45 in the version of webOS to come out "this fall" Jun 16 18:45:07 which we are calling 1.5, but it could be 2.0 at release, hard to say. Jun 16 18:45:15 nice Jun 16 18:45:28 Everything being done in java is going to be re-done either in C, or in javascript. Jun 16 18:45:28 speeeeeed booooostz! Jun 16 18:45:39 yeppers Jun 16 18:46:36 will see what they will show up after the merge completes ;) Jun 16 18:51:00 Rick_work: it be nice if some of this low level stuff was either based on existing open source code or Palm/HP opened sourced theirs like android Jun 16 18:51:27 there are a few projects focusing on embedded as a follow on to hal, devicekit, upstart, etc. Jun 16 18:57:02 what's the preferred params to diff for generating patch files? and which version of diff is preferred? Jun 16 18:57:19 tmzt much of it IS based on open source code. Of course, In the new version they're leveraging off html5, webkit and extJS, Node.js etc Jun 16 18:57:33 unified diff Jun 16 18:57:36 I'm wondering if compcache will become the standard for *all* flash based devices to help with the wear levelling issue. Jun 16 18:58:25 Rick_work: nah, I'm talking about the system software that was java Jun 16 18:58:30 not the upper parts of webOS Jun 16 18:59:47 tmzt oh. Well, MUCH of that is being replaced into javascript, and will be using extJS and Node.js type things instead. As much of luna as possible is being moved out into the open. Jun 16 19:00:11 you have some details on that last part? Jun 16 19:00:16 nda Jun 16 19:00:21 ok Jun 16 19:00:23 f:( Jun 16 19:00:40 I can't see how extJS/Node.js is involved in init process though Jun 16 19:00:40 nda = evil Jun 16 19:00:41 ;] Jun 16 19:00:48 which is what I'm asking about Jun 16 19:00:57 ahhh well the init process no. Jun 16 19:01:22 plz elaborate :) Jun 16 19:02:57 I wonder where Palm/HP sees their differentiation in the future, HP could well base it on hardware if they take the full spectrum concept seriously (mobility not just notebooks/printers) Jun 16 19:11:40 vibol, I use -Burp Jun 16 19:11:55 -BurNp if I need new files to be included Jun 16 19:12:32 that makes it easy to remember Jun 16 19:13:32 ;) Jun 16 19:28:51 i use -Nuar Jun 16 19:29:42 vibol, rwhitby told me to us -BurN Jun 16 19:29:54 s/us/use Jun 16 19:32:48 good then keep using it Jun 16 19:32:49 ;P Jun 16 19:33:27 I dunno but what I'm told. Jun 16 19:35:10 * oil uses... Jun 16 19:35:18 oh, thats right, never made a patch :) Jun 16 19:35:33 I've always used -Naur for unified diffs myself *shrug* Jun 16 19:35:37 lol! Jun 16 19:36:42 lol @ whta? Jun 16 19:36:43 :P Jun 16 19:40:50 oil Jun 16 19:40:55 ? Jun 16 19:40:57 (he is fond of saying that) Jun 16 19:41:17 oil> oh, thats right, never made a patch :) Jun 16 19:41:42 then again I simply use git diff to generate patches Jun 16 19:42:36 ive said that before? Jun 16 19:42:47 use grandma she will sport differences beetween files and note them Jun 16 19:42:54 s/sport/spot Jun 16 19:42:57 the only thing im fond of, is blaming all problems on peoples patches Jun 16 19:42:57 haha Jun 16 19:43:05 lol Jun 16 19:43:22 though that hasn;t been the case for a while Jun 16 19:47:03 oil,no.."lol" Jun 16 19:47:05 :D Jun 16 19:47:20 oh Jun 16 19:47:20 yeah Jun 16 19:47:21 that Jun 16 19:47:39 ive typed it a couple times Jun 16 19:47:42 thanks guys for responses on diff Jun 16 19:48:00 np... Jun 16 19:48:12 ask 100 guys.... Jun 16 19:48:55 [; Jun 16 19:50:34 so we could have just used diff -a for binary patching? Jun 16 20:01:50 hi. can anyone tell me how to get a dollar sign in terminal on the pre with a qwertz keyboard? Jun 16 20:11:12 doesn't work on orange+b? Jun 16 20:11:32 oh wait...not there Jun 16 20:11:41 sui, I never got it working. Jun 16 20:12:51 orange+b is # Jun 16 20:14:26 is there any possibility to get it in unicode notation? I don't know how to get the backslash but perhaps it's poaaible Jun 16 20:15:02 I didn't see that on the Pixi qwertz either Jun 16 20:15:28 if I still had it I'd make a keymap since I can't find it anywhere online. Jun 16 20:16:20 i downloaded preware and it doesnt give me themes? what did i do wrong? Jun 16 20:17:26 hm.... I can use sym to get the dollar. perhaps copy and paste works... Jun 16 20:18:11 sammyg: yoe have to activate prethemer feed in preware preferences Jun 16 20:19:44 i opened preferences and at the top it says themes and i have palm default and palm dark i dont see what your talking about Jun 16 20:21:19 sammyg: preferences - manage feeds Jun 16 20:21:34 download virtual qwerty kb Jun 16 20:22:10 oh terminal Jun 16 20:23:05 should i turn on pre central themes too Jun 16 20:23:56 i turned on prethemer and it didnt show up. i just downloaded this so be patient with me please haha Jun 16 20:24:10 manage feeds? Jun 16 20:24:31 egaudet: 3hats a good hint Jun 16 20:25:25 sammyg: after activating a feed you have to update feeds Jun 16 20:25:52 is there a way to update feeds manually instead of everytime i open preware it does it on its own Jun 16 20:26:17 is there a guide somewhere on how to package up a patch file? Jun 16 20:27:03 ok so i updated feeds and it still didnt show up Jun 16 20:27:23 vibol /topic Jun 16 20:27:31 patch submission portal Jun 16 20:28:53 sammyg: *ou can change this behaviour in the preferences Jun 16 20:30:45 did that, now im trying to figure out why the themes wont show up, i turned on prethemer and precentral themes and then updated feeds and it still isnt showing up Jun 16 20:31:09 sammyg what is on your screen? Jun 16 20:31:11 egaudet: i don't follow? should i ask in webOS instead? Jun 16 20:31:59 package updates....available pack,......instaled pack....list of everything....saved package list Jun 16 20:32:23 vibol, patches.weobs-internals.org Jun 16 20:32:38 sammyg and what is in available packages Jun 16 20:33:05 ooo la la thanks Jun 16 20:33:13 ;-) Jun 16 20:33:21 egaudet: thanks. the submission process packages up the patchfile automatically? Jun 16 20:33:52 sammyg, you can change the main screen to the older way of "availalbe apps, available themes..." etc from preferences if you want Jun 16 20:34:10 vibol, after an admin tets/approves it yes Jun 16 20:34:11 another thing.....theres no need to dl themes of precentral they should already be on preware right? Jun 16 20:34:36 yes Jun 16 20:34:40 egaudet: great, thanks! Jun 16 20:34:52 i cant find the iphone one Jun 16 20:35:26 lol Jun 16 20:37:04 why is this funny Jun 16 20:37:10 because it is Jun 16 20:37:36 cliche? yeah its better then the booby themes they offer, but you may beg to differ lol Jun 16 20:38:12 * oil likes default webos Jun 16 20:38:54 i have yet to see a theme that is generally better without any garbage Jun 16 20:39:47 sammyg: whent you navigate tthe themes section just type "ipho" and you should be done Jun 16 20:40:57 okey. gotcha, can you install more than one at a time and if so, say i download 5 i like is there a menu i can go to to alternate between them Jun 16 20:41:40 themes aren't implemented very good Jun 16 20:41:43 you can only do one at a time Jun 16 20:41:51 if you try to install another, it will seriously bust it up Jun 16 20:41:57 and you'll probably end up doctoring Jun 16 20:41:58 sammyg: no. don't install more than one Jun 16 20:42:34 yeah no one seems to care about themeing right Jun 16 20:42:45 sammyg: a theme changes images and css files Jun 16 20:42:53 thats why im asking first Jun 16 20:43:08 so if i install one and dont like it how do i delete it before installing another Jun 16 20:43:43 i've seen some nice themes but there may have been some better ones Jun 16 20:44:01 I have no idea what the status of themeing is Jun 16 20:44:23 sammyg: *ou remove any package the same way you installed it - use preware Jun 16 20:44:40 Theme Management API discussions went nowhere Jun 16 20:44:43 got it. Jun 16 20:44:57 alright now tell me where all the fun stuff is. spill it Jun 16 20:45:18 egaudet Jun 16 20:45:25 someone needs to just make something better Jun 16 20:45:30 and open up the format for themers Jun 16 20:45:34 its kinda irritating having to restart everytime i do something Jun 16 20:45:35 they'll switch to it if its generally better Jun 16 20:45:40 I need one serious themer to work with me Jun 16 20:45:48 egaudet: a theming api would be nice, but it's working this way, too Jun 16 20:46:17 i just downloaded one and all it did was change the background thats a waste Jun 16 20:46:25 i want one to change the icons and all that jazz Jun 16 20:46:29 lol Jun 16 20:46:59 im a natural blonde so please forgive the slowness ha Jun 16 20:47:17 sammyg: take a look at original blue or red. perhaps you want to install the scrim patches Jun 16 20:47:21 Find me a good designer/themer that's serious about making an all encompassing theme and then we can hash out the Theme API ;) Jun 16 20:47:48 * oil thinks themes should be stricken from preware Jun 16 20:48:02 sammyg: *ou only restart luna - the gui of webos Jun 16 20:48:11 of course oil you can always do the MOJO for the Theme Management APP ;) Jun 16 20:49:07 what would scrim patches do for me Jun 16 20:49:13 lol Jun 16 20:49:13 btw. need to restart luna :-) Jun 16 20:49:14 themes should be split off into their OWN APP Jun 16 20:49:15 change scrims Jun 16 20:49:22 Rick_work, right Jun 16 20:49:36 except the installation part Jun 16 20:49:43 install theme != apply/change theme Jun 16 20:49:56 sammyg: *ou can set your own background for some internal apps Jun 16 20:50:13 * oil wonders why sui has such a problem typing "you" Jun 16 20:50:46 lol Jun 16 20:50:59 hes missing the y Jun 16 20:51:12 thats like the 5th time Jun 16 20:51:12 lol Jun 16 20:51:19 oil I orange for nick-completion and orange+y is * Jun 16 20:51:34 * I use Jun 16 20:51:49 wirc? Jun 16 20:52:01 yes Jun 16 20:52:10 after gesture+orange orange shouldn't be keyed Jun 16 20:52:37 oil: nice hint Jun 16 20:53:11 and what kind of pre keyboard has * on orange+y? Jun 16 20:53:21 what is scrim patches?? Jun 16 20:53:26 my Y has ( as its orange function Jun 16 20:53:36 oil: german qwertz Jun 16 20:53:42 ah Jun 16 20:53:49 wait till you see new wirc Jun 16 20:53:54 its way more better :) Jun 16 20:54:02 the reason I don't have dollar in terminal :'( Jun 16 20:54:13 http://i46.tinypic.com/2wd3fvn.png :) Jun 16 20:55:20 sui, make an alias on your shell Jun 16 20:55:25 MAYBE IF I START TYPING IN CAPITALS ONE OF YOU SMART PEOPLE CAN ANSWER ME haha Jun 16 20:55:38 but yeah sui that's a tough one Jun 16 20:56:03 can I do more than chatting on irc? can I do icq or xampp? ;) Jun 16 20:56:21 what would scrim patches do for me Jun 16 20:56:23 change scrims Jun 16 20:56:34 IT WAS ANSWERED THE FIRST TIME YOU SAID IT Jun 16 20:56:45 MAYBE I SHOULD TYPE MY RESPONSES IN CAPS SO YOU DONT REPEAT YOURSELF Jun 16 20:56:56 I CANT CATCH UP :) smartars Jun 16 20:57:35 sui not with wirc Jun 16 20:57:38 where do i change scrims :] Jun 16 20:57:44 egaudet: an alias for the dollar sign? perhaps I can use the virtual keyboard. need to restart luna first. brb Jun 16 20:57:54 sui vkb won't work with terminal Jun 16 20:58:00 * oil goes to work Jun 16 20:58:15 terminal has basically no mojo-happiness :P Jun 16 21:00:23 where do i change scrims :] and what is it Jun 16 21:04:17 re Jun 16 21:04:54 sui put sh script dollar in your path Jun 16 21:04:59 echo ${$1} Jun 16 21:05:09 then do like ls `dollar var` Jun 16 21:05:18 rather than ls $var Jun 16 21:06:29 in my contacts it combines my actual contacts i manually put in there and then my facebook friends. is there a way to seperate that or delete the facebook ones with out deleting the friends? Jun 16 21:09:41 egaudet: I don't understand your solution. can't I just use an alias in my .bashrc like alias printdollar='echo "$"' ? Jun 16 21:10:34 sammyg: that's a feature of webos that it links all profiles for a contact Jun 16 21:12:44 ... and virtual keyboard does not work in terminal Jun 16 21:13:24 su|, if you do alias like that how do you expand the variable Jun 16 21:13:37 echo `printdollar`var would echo $var Jun 16 21:13:41 not what $var is Jun 16 21:14:01 su| yeah, terminal is its own magical being that takes all the keys :P Jun 16 21:17:59 egaudet: you are right. but when I use a script just containing "echo ${$1}" it would give me the first argument I pass to the script? Jun 16 21:21:00 no, it returns "bad substution" Jun 16 21:22:23 su| it should expand the first argument Jun 16 21:22:44 ls `dollar var` should do the same as ls $var normally would Jun 16 21:23:15 egaudet: now I understand. it not only returns the argument. it returns "$" and the argument Jun 16 21:23:28 right Jun 16 21:23:55 well it returns what the argument as a variable expands to Jun 16 21:24:22 since you can't do it on current shell you are invoking the command from, you just do it in another shell (the script) Jun 16 21:25:10 but I still get: ${$1}: bad substitution Jun 16 21:26:06 I do: ls `dollar PATH` Jun 16 21:29:07 and the next question is.... how do I get ` in terminal when I use the pre keyboard? Jun 16 21:39:43 dtzWill: do you have any idea where those examples of drawing a 2D texture to screen using OpenGL ES might be that you pointed me to awhile back? Jun 16 22:41:07 * uNiXpSyChO lights the flamethrower Jun 16 22:43:19 does govnah need to be on for the uberkernel to be at 800mhz. or can ijust set it then close govnah? Jun 16 23:31:22 anybody up? Jun 16 23:32:28 anybody awake? Could use some help. Jun 16 23:33:47 can neone read this i.m testing wirc Jun 16 23:34:04 i can Jun 16 23:34:59 cool I'm glas this works Jun 16 23:35:05 *glad Jun 16 23:35:23 Hey Ark are you familiar with WebOs internals? Jun 16 23:35:57 with some stuff. what's ur prob? Jun 16 23:38:16 someone has hacked into my Pre. Jun 16 23:38:57 Ark1: what does the Govnah documentation say about your question? Jun 16 23:39:11 runjorel: orly? Jun 17 00:12:40 someone has hacked into my Pre <-- that needs to go into the channel topic Jun 17 00:13:18 Someone needs to add a feature to infobot where he gives a greeting to select people each time they come into the room or change back to their registered nick Jun 17 00:13:40 and then have that greeting be a reminder of something embaressing they said Jun 17 00:16:25 heh Jun 17 00:21:10 zsoc: lolol Jun 17 00:53:37 so i keep getting calls for apparently having a washing machine for sale on craigslist Jun 17 00:54:47 and i found the listing, haha Jun 17 00:55:01 im thinking about emailing the person and say "wonder why you're not selling it?" Jun 17 00:55:10 okay I'm no kernel expert, but I was reading the recently retweeted webos roundup article on the Too Many Cards error and how the Uberkernel plans to solve it... Jun 17 00:55:51 "if (used_ram + used_swap) > (total_ram + total_swap) then stop allowing new cards." <-- but isn't it impossible for that to ever be true? How can used RAM and SWAP be GREATER than the total swap/ram available? Jun 17 01:04:40 VincentLaw, with compcache there are 2 kinds of swap now. Jun 17 01:04:48 and one is sorta fuzzy as to how big it is. Jun 17 01:04:56 (because its compressed) Jun 17 01:06:46 so it's only taking into account one swap in that equation? Jun 17 01:06:56 because irrelevant of the size it still seems like flawed logic Jun 17 01:07:07 rather, irrelevant of the number of swaps Jun 17 01:08:04 it'd make more sense to me if it were: if (used_ram + used_swap + requested_memory) > (total_ram + total_swap) { allowCards() } Jun 17 01:08:11 but like I said, I'm no kernel expert :P Jun 17 01:08:35 *dontAllowCards() :P Jun 17 02:19:04 dtzWill: sorry I asked this earlier but got disconnected so I dunno if you responded: do you have any idea where those examples of drawing a 2D texture to screen using OpenGL ES might be that you pointed me to awhile back? Jun 17 02:19:26 anyone using usbnet on their Pre? Jun 17 02:20:18 rwhitby: Nice write up: "Are you an effective Alpha tester?" Jun 17 02:20:46 who doesn't use usbnet Jun 17 02:20:50 egaudet: er, i use it exclusively Jun 17 02:21:07 I plug my pre in and my pc internet dies Jun 17 02:21:28 BeeRad: thanks. anyone asking questions about alpha testing items will get that link in the future. Jun 17 02:22:08 rwhitby: link? Jun 17 02:22:19 zsoc, how do you set your ip on your pc? Jun 17 02:22:45 Tman: http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2511506 Jun 17 02:22:57 thanks Jun 17 02:25:02 I fell asleep with my Pre in my hand last night trying to torture test with open apps. haha Waking up with my Pre UNDER me is becoming a common issue. Jun 17 02:26:07 egaudet: manually Jun 17 02:27:35 egaudet: just set usb0 with ifconfig 1 time and it was fine.. in the same subnet.. 192.168.0 Jun 17 02:31:54 am I still here? Jun 17 02:32:03 no Jun 17 02:32:11 wtf! Jun 17 02:32:35 zsoc, so you don't use /etc/dnsmasq.palm.conf ? Jun 17 02:32:53 I think I'll just use Puff's udev rule Jun 17 02:34:56 wat Jun 17 02:36:18 interesting .. palm is going to open source the facebook app Jun 17 02:36:45 nice Jun 17 02:38:30 this podcast is OOOOLD tho .. 3/26 or so Jun 17 02:38:36 i wonder why it took so long to come out Jun 17 02:58:10 bpadalino: which podcast is that? Jun 17 02:58:32 rwhitby: http://developer.palm.com/blog/2010/06/palm-developer-podcast-a-code-walk-through-of-the-facebook-application/ Jun 17 02:58:51 it's pretty boring, but he talks about the fb app, talks about the "new" beta app .. Jun 17 02:58:56 ah, the missing episode 5 Jun 17 02:59:46 nice tidbit about open sourcing the fb app, tho **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 17 02:59:56 2010