**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Sep 21 02:59:57 2010 Sep 21 03:10:08 for some reason i'm getting an unable to connect to pulseaudio: and sound from my phone is not working, but the phone's speaker and mic work. Anyone know of any posts, information, or solutions to this bug? Sep 21 03:10:43 phone's speaker and mic when using the actual _phone_ app ii meant... Sep 21 03:18:38 When running `make stage` to build the WIDK I get the following when it tries to build the armv6 freetype: Sep 21 03:18:39 checking for XML_SetDoctypeDeclHandler... no Sep 21 03:18:39 configure: error: Cannot find usable expat library. This could mean that your version is too old. Sep 21 03:18:56 Ubuntu 10.10 amd64 Sep 21 03:19:08 Anyone seen this before? Sep 21 03:19:33 It does find expat.h on the line before that Sep 21 03:19:51 Oh, it's trying to build fontconfig, not freetype Sep 21 03:20:08 and does "initctl start pulseaudio" literally start pulseaudio where you could pgrep a pulseaudio PID? Sep 21 03:20:27 /start/daemonize Sep 21 03:20:44 Weird, I ran `make stage` again and it got past it Sep 21 03:21:04 sudo make nowordieinafire Sep 21 03:47:01 @dtzWill Are you listening? Sep 21 03:49:22 man I'm tempted to make a little loop that keeps running `make stage` so long as it reports it failed Sep 21 03:50:20 Zen00 ping'd me and left 13 seconds later x.x Sep 21 04:02:12 hm Sep 21 04:02:21 i think i'm going to upgrade to ubuntu 10.x and do a clean install on this computer Sep 21 04:02:26 and then try to build widk from scratch Sep 21 04:04:08 ryan[WIN]: good luck. Sep 21 04:06:13 thanks <3 Sep 21 05:25:10 morning Sep 21 05:26:22 dtzWill: still around? Sep 21 05:27:20 hape: kinda :) Sep 21 05:30:28 is it possible to run pulseaudio directly from novaterm?: well. start the daemon such as "$pulseaudio -D" ?? Sep 21 05:31:58 k-: idk, but i say you should try it :) Sep 21 05:33:34 :: "$ pulseaudio -D" > E: main.c: Daemon startup failed. ;; "$ pulseaudio" > E: core-util.c: Failed to create secure directory: Permission denied Sep 21 05:33:58 k-: other than running as root i got nothing. just a thought :) Sep 21 05:34:22 that must be success... so how about "$ pidof pulseaudio?" Sep 21 05:34:48 return anything/? Sep 21 05:37:38 k-: works here Sep 21 05:38:01 dtzWill: only for intrest. Dit Palm accepted your PDK apps as widk compiled or did you needet to recompile them with the offical SDK/PDK? Sep 21 05:38:14 then i'm doing something wrong... Sep 21 05:38:35 k-: that was on a 1.4.5 sprint pre, fwiw Sep 21 05:38:55 cool, so the pulseaudio daemon should be running... Sep 21 05:39:00 - gotcha.. Sep 21 05:39:37 hape: used WIDK, but I just toolchains a lot. Sep 21 05:40:14 i can't imagine they actually care, tbh. I was just using a newer version of the codesourcery toolchain, and the rest is just linking stuff which doesn't really change anything anyway Sep 21 05:40:14 WIDK is a pure superset of SDK/PDK, there is no incompatibility. Sep 21 05:40:41 to be clear i think the WIDK by default uses the same toolchain, but i haven't checked personally. Sep 21 05:49:25 I was wondering. Sep 21 05:49:47 Would it be possible to install a linux distro from a pre? Sep 21 05:49:54 via usb mode. Sep 21 05:51:32 probably Sep 21 05:52:23 I have no usb drives or cds available, but I'm not exactly sure how to go about it. Sep 21 05:52:51 then it's not possible ;) Sep 21 05:53:46 this is very strange... E: socket-client.c: socket(): Address family not supported by protocol Sep 21 06:09:53 dtzWill: Thanks Sep 21 13:10:45 afternoon Sep 21 16:15:55 hi Sep 21 17:26:14 hello Sep 21 17:26:50 anyone? Sep 21 17:28:09 quiet in here today Sep 21 17:28:36 yes it is Sep 21 17:28:54 what is your favorite patch? Sep 21 17:29:16 hard to say Sep 21 17:30:40 probably the one that lets me turn off mobile data Sep 21 17:30:43 ok in my quest to successfully build/install widk i did a brand new clean/fresh install of ubuntu 10.04 (formatted main drive) Sep 21 17:31:00 and i set scrollback to unlimited on terminal Sep 21 17:31:12 if anything goes wrong THIS TIME it should be tracable Sep 21 17:31:42 dude warthog kernel will brick your phone don't use it Sep 21 17:33:43 ryan[WIN]: or you could pipe to a log file? O:) Sep 21 17:34:03 same deal though Sep 21 17:34:08 just ctrl-a copy to gedit :P Sep 21 17:34:13 haha Sep 21 17:34:52 piping is for people that know what they're doing Sep 21 17:35:05 what are yalls favorite/useful patches Sep 21 17:36:26 i have to assume that i don't know what i'm doing because i couldn't get this thing to build and i'm hurp durping myself Sep 21 17:36:41 assuming nothing and restarting from scratch and everything Sep 21 17:37:05 you seem to have a good handle on things, shrug :). anyway good luck and sorry for your troubles :( Sep 21 17:38:07 well i've done every type of dev and cross compiling thing but i always always always assume i'm doing it wrong before i assume the package is wrong Sep 21 17:38:33 wouldn't be so sure, and that's what i'm apologizing for Sep 21 17:38:39 i've surprised myself at how hurp durp i can be in the past Sep 21 17:38:56 although given all your troubles i think i'll at least check up on whether or not i can get it to build Sep 21 17:39:00 well hopefully we'll get a grip on what's going on after this Sep 21 17:39:45 indeed Sep 21 17:39:56 almost done with making the toolchain Sep 21 17:41:07 go go make clobber-armv7 Sep 21 17:41:16 lul Sep 21 17:41:17 destroy the result of all the compilation :D Sep 21 17:41:34 is that really a target? :P Sep 21 17:41:37 yeppers Sep 21 17:41:44 rofl Sep 21 17:41:52 b/c the default clobber target will nuke everything like the toolchain and rootfs Sep 21 17:42:00 youe a target Sep 21 17:42:18 wow. kb fail Sep 21 17:42:21 that don't change and are just a PITA to rebuild (takes a long time and doesn't help) Sep 21 17:42:43 must..not..make..'you're mom's a target'... joke...public..channel.... Sep 21 17:42:46 whoops couldn't help myself Sep 21 17:42:57 s/you're/your/ Sep 21 17:43:08 s/dtzWill/dumbass/ Sep 21 17:44:40 lol Sep 21 17:45:19 ryan[WIN]: starting build, i'll let you know if i have issues. :) Sep 21 17:45:33 k Sep 21 17:46:22 ryan[WIN]: do you have a multicore machine? fwiw you can use the -j option safely. or at least get things to fail faster that way ;) Sep 21 17:46:37 nope Sep 21 17:46:41 i'm building this on an eee pc Sep 21 17:46:44 but if people define their deps correctly (I used to try to police that) it's safe Sep 21 17:46:51 ryan[WIN]: that's right. doesn't it have hyperthrading or soemthing? :P Sep 21 17:46:52 single coorrrre :D Sep 21 17:46:56 no it's a celeron Sep 21 17:47:02 oh the old eee, right. Sep 21 17:47:03 first generation eee pc FTW!!! Sep 21 17:47:03 original :D Sep 21 17:47:16 sorry i hear eee i think of mine, a 901 Sep 21 17:47:24 so i'm doing the build process through an external drive directory Sep 21 17:47:31 because i don't have enough disk space to do it on the 4GB main Sep 21 17:49:31 right. Sep 21 17:49:40 especially not if you want to also have an OS in there somewhere Sep 21 17:49:55 bah, you people with your high falutin computers Sep 21 17:52:55 ok moment of truth Sep 21 17:52:58 building sage Sep 21 17:53:00 stage Sep 21 17:53:41 ryan[WIN]: I forget, but it might build armv6 first by default, if so you want to do 'make staging-armv7' to just build the armv7 target Sep 21 17:53:46 armv6 never fully worked AFAIK Sep 21 17:54:00 * dtzWill hopes someone mentioned this to you previosuly Sep 21 17:54:05 previously, even Sep 21 17:54:32 ok let's let it fail Sep 21 17:57:22 used to have it all ccached so it took ~15 min to build the whole thing haha Sep 21 17:58:27 most of the build time is downloading from codesourcery or whatever Sep 21 17:58:36 and the various packages from palm Sep 21 17:59:05 yeah, and codesourcery's mirrors are slooooooow Sep 21 17:59:14 there's no reason to re-dl them once you have those however Sep 21 17:59:19 well in most cases anyway Sep 21 17:59:54 in the rare case someone updates a tarball but doesn't change the filename (version, etc) you might need to remove the cached download file, but.... that only happens if someone somewhere is doing something wrong :) Sep 21 18:05:21 so far so goood Sep 21 18:09:12 oh sweet criminey it's getting farther than i've ever seen it get so far Sep 21 18:10:28 hey guys, does anyone know whether i can run QEMU --on-- palm pre? Sep 21 18:10:53 kpeamop: sure can. Sep 21 18:10:53 i.e. in order to run binaries compiled for i386 Sep 21 18:11:11 kpeamop: yep. you can use userspace qemu for that, or try booting a minimal i386 os to run things on Sep 21 18:11:23 kpeamop: idk what you have in mind, but ... let me pull up the numbers we found when we tried that Sep 21 18:12:52 kpeamop: oh dear they're terrible, i was remembering the numbers we had for using qemu for arm Sep 21 18:13:31 tty-linux took over 30 minutes to boot Sep 21 18:13:33 i remember when my computer was an apple IIc and i thought that shit was faaaaaast Sep 21 18:13:33 we're all spoiled these days Sep 21 18:13:38 i think we ended up giving up on it Sep 21 18:13:55 just run DOS on it Sep 21 18:13:59 640k ought to be enough Sep 21 18:14:05 ok, thanks Sep 21 18:14:48 ah yeah we needed a linux-based os for our work. Sep 21 18:15:27 why do all my attempts at installing a theme fail Sep 21 18:15:39 brandon_: b/c themes are designed to fail and cause problems. Sep 21 18:15:44 dtzWill, things seem to be going ok so far Sep 21 18:15:55 s/designed to/by their nature/ Sep 21 18:15:55 dtzWill meant: brandon_: b/c themes are by their nature fail and cause problems. Sep 21 18:15:59 that's what I figured Sep 21 18:16:07 ryan[WIN]: hooray Sep 21 18:16:40 phew i don't have to spend hours debugging autotools nightmares :P Sep 21 18:17:04 themes used to work on my pre before the 1.4.5 Sep 21 18:17:14 dtzWill, we're not out of the woods yet :D Sep 21 18:17:31 ryan[WIN]: haha no indeed. i'm still building mine, i had to pause it though b/c i needed to benchmark something Sep 21 18:18:32 brb - letting this thingrun Sep 21 18:32:12 oh dammit i built it with the wrong toolchain x.x Sep 21 18:32:52 well i don't feel like changing it presently, let me know how it works for you :) Sep 21 19:16:36 dtzWill, i'm still building Sep 21 19:16:40 so far it seems like it's working Sep 21 19:19:00 hooray Sep 21 19:43:41 dtzWill, it's still working on the armv6 stage which is surprising Sep 21 19:45:17 ryan[WIN]: oh it does do armv6 first? or did it finish armv7 :P Sep 21 19:45:48 i think it's still on v6 Sep 21 19:46:03 yep still on armv6 Sep 21 20:10:16 dtzWill, armv6 failed with a libtool conflict Sep 21 20:10:24 trying 'make staging-armv7' Sep 21 20:27:25 wiki needs to be updated to tell people to install libogg-dev or whatever it is Sep 21 20:53:28 you know, you could update the wiki... Sep 21 20:55:34 just saying' Sep 21 20:58:20 i will update it i'm just remindin' myself Sep 21 20:58:55 this is taking eons on my eee pc Sep 21 20:58:57 my god Sep 21 21:26:12 n8 Sep 21 21:33:40 Dang, my `make stage` loop seems to have finally failed Sep 21 21:34:06 Building fuse says my LT_INIT is from an older version than I'm running Sep 21 21:34:15 older libtool, that is Sep 21 21:54:19 sweet jesus it works.... Sep 21 21:59:31 cryptk|wirc: you know that thing we were talking about with the packages? Its working... Sep 21 21:59:47 halfhalo: which thing? Sep 21 21:59:53 feed thing Sep 21 22:00:02 ahh, nice man! Sep 21 22:00:15 was a patch to preware needed for it? Sep 21 22:00:24 Havent gotten that far :p Sep 21 22:00:35 Right now I just have the package building portion done Sep 21 22:00:41 ahh, so you just have a custom feed going Sep 21 22:01:15 It watches two files, one being appinfo, and when they are modified it triggers a build command for the packages Sep 21 22:02:05 sweet, so you are making your own autobuilder Sep 21 22:02:06 what thing u talking about Sep 21 22:02:26 he is making his own autobuilder for a custom feed Sep 21 22:02:53 oh crap..... INFINITE LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP Sep 21 22:03:38 when the build function is triggered the file its watching gets touched.... triggering another build Sep 21 22:03:40 :p Sep 21 22:04:13 and right now its rebuilding all the packages every time one changes, which is really wastefull Sep 21 22:07:10 but I'll explain more later, getting ready for class right now Sep 21 22:07:32 why touch the file? open it readonly, then it won't be timestamped Sep 21 22:08:54 chuqui: how go's things in palm land? Sep 21 22:09:18 cryptk|wirc: about the same... crazy in a fun way... Sep 21 22:09:42 yeah, I got that vibe from some things I read today, lol Sep 21 22:09:52 build still going Sep 21 22:10:20 ryan[WIN]: you still having WIDK issues? Sep 21 22:10:20 Amaranth, try "make staging-armv7" Sep 21 22:10:33 cryptk|wirc, i did a completely new os install and it seems to be moving along this time Sep 21 22:10:43 the armv6 staging fails but Sep 21 22:10:46 armv7 seems to be going ok Sep 21 22:11:23 chuqui: there was something I wanted to ask you, but I forgot what it was... you wouldn't happen to have been reading my mind about 3 hours ago would ya? Sep 21 22:11:23 the armv6 staging seems to have a libtool config issue Sep 21 22:11:34 like, a genuine one Sep 21 22:11:51 cryptk|wirc, i'm keeping an output of my entire from scratch build thing Sep 21 22:11:57 it's going to be a ginormous text file Sep 21 22:11:59 loooooooool Sep 21 22:12:06 good Sep 21 22:12:31 cryptk|wirc: yes, and then I went and showered. Sep 21 22:13:08 oh... sorry about that, lol... I meant 2.5 hours, lol Sep 21 22:13:09 Good thing we have a shower at work Sep 21 22:13:28 don't bother with the shower... won't remove the things that come from my head... Sep 21 22:13:37 I remember it now! Sep 21 22:14:28 cryptk|wirc: heh Sep 21 22:14:29 right now SDL doesn't use the GPU, I was brainstorming ways to make it do that... I was wondering if you guys had given it any thought Sep 21 22:14:49 cryptk|wirc: yes, but not in any way I can talk about outside of the engineering building. Sep 21 22:15:06 it's definitely something that's on the radar screen Sep 21 22:16:14 cool, I know you can't give details, but knowing it's on the radar is enough for me Sep 21 22:16:37 now to see who does it first, you guys or me/we/us Sep 21 22:16:39 lol Sep 21 22:16:48 (i vote for you guys) Sep 21 22:17:09 morning Sep 21 22:18:04 funny story btw, someone asked me today 'why doesn't palm make an emulator that runs on an ARM v7' Sep 21 22:18:15 LOLOLOL Sep 21 22:18:25 I replied with 'thats called a real pre' Sep 21 22:18:46 epic win Sep 21 22:18:47 ! Sep 21 22:19:00 the question did make me LOL Sep 21 22:19:06 ok staging-armv7 also fails Sep 21 22:19:16 with libtool config issue Sep 21 22:19:23 Who has an armv7 device they would even want to run the emu on? Sep 21 22:19:54 not me! Sep 21 22:20:04 cryptk: it's not me that's touching it, it's palm-install that's touching it or somesuch Sep 21 22:20:22 and i have saved my entire backbuffer Sep 21 22:20:30 who should i give this backbuffer to Sep 21 22:20:58 ryan[WIN]: pastebin it and give us a link Sep 21 22:21:01 but not a big deal since I'm changing it to kill the filewatcher before the build and remake it after Sep 21 22:21:13 k Sep 21 22:21:19 make sure to set the expiration to indef Sep 21 22:21:31 since I'm also going to rescan the folder for new projects Sep 21 22:21:33 and make sure you don't have any passwords or anything in it Sep 21 22:24:09 morning rwhitby Sep 21 22:26:08 it's a hefty hefty pastebin Sep 21 22:26:09 38k lines Sep 21 22:26:14 although for now I think I'm going to take the lazy route with the ws and just have a username pass combo in the url itself Sep 21 22:26:43 http://proggit.pastebin.com Sep 21 22:26:44 er Sep 21 22:27:00 http://proggit.pastebin.com/5BHbLZ3V Sep 21 22:27:30 from a brand new clean install of ubuntu 10.04 Sep 21 22:28:48 following the build instructions on wiki - ends up failing on a common lib on armv7 Sep 21 22:29:32 libtool version mismatch Sep 21 22:30:10 i initially tried 'make stage' and that failed after a logn while on a libtool, 'make staging-armv7' fails after a long while on libtool Sep 21 22:30:22 same basic issue that i had previously but now there should be a bread crumb trail here Sep 21 22:30:23 cryptk: all thats really left is to robustify the building process (I sorta hard coded it to palm-package right now), finish the function that makes the Package file (Its 99% done, I just need to make the md5 and size fields), and the webserver (Which is trivial with the lazy way). Oh, and actually make the auth system do something besides looking at the user/pass it gets and saying 'eh' Sep 21 22:31:02 haha Sep 21 22:31:24 as far as i know i didn't do anything wrong in this build process Sep 21 22:31:58 hey, the hard stuff is done :p Sep 21 22:38:48 ryan[WIN]: go into the packages/common/fuse folder Sep 21 22:38:55 run `make clobber` Sep 21 22:38:58 and then `make stage` Sep 21 22:39:02 let me know what happens Sep 21 22:45:17 ok Sep 21 22:47:24 it's builllllldin' Sep 21 22:47:49 i'll let you know what happens when it's done and pastebin if it fails Sep 21 22:47:59 Hey, trying to find out if there's irc clients available ... looks like I'm getting the pro in the next day or two Sep 21 22:48:00 samee error Sep 21 22:48:29 hey gang, vote for your favorite phone: http://www.fonearena.com/blog/23073/smartphone-championship-semi-final-nokia-n900-vs-palm-pre.html Sep 21 22:48:43 cryptk, http://proggit.pastebin.com/s9LJkxua Sep 21 22:49:22 KittyHeather: yes Sep 21 22:49:31 homebrew there is Sep 21 22:49:35 WIRC Sep 21 22:49:54 wirc is pretty good Sep 21 22:49:57 homebrew works, as long as it's not command line ... BASH to talk on irc is not quite my idea of a good time Sep 21 22:49:57 i use it <3 Sep 21 22:50:06 KittyHeather, nah it's graphical and gesture-y Sep 21 22:50:13 thank you Sep 21 22:50:17 WIRC is not command line, very nice GUI Sep 21 22:50:26 and made by us! Sep 21 22:50:31 bonus Sep 21 22:50:43 wIRC is really nice Sep 21 22:50:47 cryptk, i'm all out of ideas Sep 21 22:51:05 i put a brand new OS on and errrythin' Sep 21 22:51:28 migrating from a treo 700wx (winmo) so i'm kinda starting all over again Sep 21 22:53:00 man i have so much dev i want to do on this pre Sep 21 22:53:14 I wanna finish my feed thingie Sep 21 22:53:15 and i'm just getting beat up by this build Sep 21 22:55:01 hang on, I am looking it over Sep 21 22:55:32 one other question, and then i'll leave you guys alone ... I use Palringo right now to get Yahoo messenger over the data connection (vs. SMS that Verizon uses) ... is there a similar program that I can find? Sep 21 22:56:10 can't tell if MobiOS does that Sep 21 22:56:19 The built in WebOS messenger + the Yahoo patch ;) Sep 21 22:56:22 er, MobiOS? Sep 21 22:56:30 * halfhalo has yahoo messenger on his phone natively Sep 21 22:57:31 cryptk, take your time - i just want to make sure i'm being as helpful as possible Sep 21 22:57:42 patch works ... thanks ... i'll likely be back after i got the phone online Sep 21 22:57:45 i'd assume that if i'm having this issue anyoen with a clean os install would too Sep 21 22:57:59 cryptk: the feed thingie may/may not talk to git :p Sep 21 22:58:32 ryan[WIN]: `sudo aptitude install automake` Sep 21 22:58:41 then try the make clobber && make stage again Sep 21 22:59:46 ok Sep 21 22:59:58 it installed 0 packages and removed qemu-static thingy that was removed in a previous step Sep 21 23:00:09 (autotools already installed?) Sep 21 23:00:23 will pastebin results if it errors Sep 21 23:01:54 ok same deal Sep 21 23:01:56 * ryan[WIN] pastebins Sep 21 23:02:03 hrm... Sep 21 23:02:16 dtzWill: is the one that knows the most about this thing Sep 21 23:02:23 here is how I usually build it Sep 21 23:02:32 make -j4 staging-armv7 Sep 21 23:02:43 and it will error out a few times but just keep running it, lol Sep 21 23:02:49 I'm also deciding wether I'm caring enough to log the results of a build if it spits out an error.. instead of just sticking it in the console like now Sep 21 23:02:57 I am thinking that something doesn't have it's dependencies set properly Sep 21 23:03:05 http://proggit.pastebin.com/f1a7pfwk Sep 21 23:03:17 what does the -j4 do Sep 21 23:03:34 makes it run 4 makes at one time Sep 21 23:03:41 http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=mesa_gallium3d_d3d11&num=1 Sep 21 23:03:46 ^^^ this is fucking awesome Sep 21 23:03:48 well Sep 21 23:03:51 so eventually it will get it's dependencies straight Sep 21 23:03:57 that's pretty horrendous loool Sep 21 23:04:08 i have to rely on a heisenbug to make the widk Sep 21 23:04:16 BUT HEY CRAZIER THINGS HAVE HAPPENED Sep 21 23:04:49 here we go Sep 21 23:04:56 trying the make -j4 staging-armv7 Sep 21 23:05:15 haha my eee pc is dying Sep 21 23:05:18 19:04:33 up 6:29, 2 users, load average: 2.34, 1.34, 1.20 Sep 21 23:06:01 will let you knw how it goes Sep 21 23:06:07 and pastebin output if it fails Sep 21 23:06:34 I got my G4 mini's load averages up into like 80.5+ ranges lol Sep 21 23:06:52 oh yeah i could run a fork loop and bring the system down completely Sep 21 23:07:05 i'm on a 32bit cpu with no swap Sep 21 23:07:35 wouldn't even need more than a few thousand fork'd processes to panic Sep 21 23:21:01 ok it failed again Sep 21 23:21:04 heisenbug did not work for me Sep 21 23:21:05 ;< Sep 21 23:52:58 PuffTheMagic: holy shit. is that for real or should i take it with the normal phoronix grain of salt? Sep 21 23:53:14 its real Sep 21 23:53:17 it dont compile yet Sep 21 23:53:22 according to peple i know Sep 21 23:53:23 but Sep 21 23:53:27 ya Sep 21 23:53:30 fucking sweet Sep 21 23:53:38 too bad wine devs wont use it Sep 21 23:54:12 why the hell not :(. Sep 21 23:54:13 how great it woul dbe to play civ5 on linux in full speed Sep 21 23:54:20 dtzWill, idk Sep 21 23:54:22 or /any/ dx10/dx11 games Sep 21 23:54:23 thats just what i hear Sep 21 23:54:30 if they dont, someone will fork wine Sep 21 23:54:31 and use it Sep 21 23:54:33 and wine will die Sep 21 23:54:55 that would be *huge* Sep 21 23:55:05 it seems the wine guys would find it easier, less crap to maintain lol Sep 21 23:55:24 (and they get dx11 which they don't have) Sep 21 23:55:27 ya well Sep 21 23:55:35 gallium is hardly mainstream yet Sep 21 23:55:35 I don't think wine would die Sep 21 23:55:40 but they have invested quite a bit in it already so i can imagine reluctance Sep 21 23:55:43 you'd just end up with something like Cider Sep 21 23:55:44 it would be very expenive for them to commit to a change at this point Sep 21 23:55:49 Cider/Wine Sep 21 23:56:07 at least as long as it's not clear that gallium thing works WELL and is superior Sep 21 23:56:12 SineOt, what is the clever acronym for cider? Sep 21 23:56:22 no idea Sep 21 23:56:24 but no one wants them to regress by switching to it too soon, at least from an end user's perspective Sep 21 23:56:38 dtzWill, once gallium is default in mesa the wine devs will use it Sep 21 23:56:39 but it's basically a company doing their own version of Wine + their stuff designed for gaming Sep 22 00:01:14 SineOt: Cider is made by Transgaming who forked WINE a _long_ time ago when it was under the MIT license and actually the reason they switched to LGPL Sep 22 00:01:28 ah Sep 22 00:01:36 They gave back basically none of their changes Sep 22 00:02:08 They couldn't give back the changes for making safedisc and crap work, that is understood Sep 22 00:02:42 boo, shame on you Palm. OSX has /Developer for a reason, don't muck up my Applications folder with the Palm Emulator :( Sep 22 00:04:42 dtzWill: The WINE guys mainly write their OpenGL code for the nvidia driver which means they wouldn't depend on gallium since nvidia won't use it Sep 22 00:05:43 They'd have to write their DX11->OpenGL code anyway for drivers that aren't gallium-based Sep 22 00:06:46 Plus that stuff is mainly be meant for porting a game Sep 22 00:17:07 SineOt: New Xcode releases tend to muck up third party things installed in /Developer. /Applications is a safer bet Sep 22 00:17:44 Heh, it figured XCode thinks it is the only thing in the world for developers :P Sep 22 00:17:49 * SineOt just never updates Xcode, because... It's not a delta upgrade and screw having to download 1GB every time there's a x.x.1 update :Q Sep 22 00:17:50 err, figures Sep 22 00:18:48 at least I now have one click automator actions to build ipks and install them into the emulator! Sep 22 00:25:51 SineOt: Apple "owns" /Developer. We install most stuff into /opt since that's the FHS location for linux, and works for OS X too. Most 3rd party apps I've ever installed go in /Applications, so that's where we install the emulator. Sep 22 00:25:59 Did you want us to install into Apple's /Developer folder? Sep 22 00:26:23 an option'd be cool, my Apps folder gets cluttered enough as is Sep 22 00:26:30 but I see your point Sep 22 00:27:00 Yeah, my /Applications folders have a lot of cruft too -- especially machines that have been upgraded and/or migrated over and over for years. Sep 22 00:27:33 but it's only two things (Emulator and Inspector) and one of those (Inspector) is likely going away so it will just be the obviously-named Palm Emulator. Sep 22 00:27:53 (though this isn't really the best place to discuss it; I was just responding to your comment above) Sep 22 00:28:03 as long as I can drag Palm Emulator anywhere I want, I'll be happy as a clam~ Sep 22 00:28:20 * rwhitby has no problem with Palm Emulator in Applications, since it's an application :) Sep 22 00:28:22 Yup. Feel free. If it doesn't work, report it, either to me or on the developer forum. Sep 22 00:30:25 I guess I'm weird c_c if I use it a lot, it can stay in /Applications, if I don't use it a lot but still need it, it can live in ~/Applications, and if I don't use it a lot and don't need it... Poof, bye bye~ Sep 22 00:30:44 I try to keep the folders at a bare minimum, because all that cruft gets in the way Sep 22 00:30:55 but thank you for the response lemketron Sep 22 00:31:09 no problem! Sep 22 00:31:32 we love the webOS community, and appreciate feedback. :-) Sep 22 00:32:02 Now where is my PDK? :) Sep 22 00:32:38 http://developer.palm.com/ ? Sep 22 00:32:48 I'm on Linux Sep 22 00:32:55 heh Sep 22 00:33:03 wasn't that the first pdk that appeared, before ours? Sep 22 00:33:42 Yeah, the WIDK is apparently broken right now Sep 22 00:33:47 Some automake issues or something Sep 22 00:35:06 yeah, poor ryan[WIN] has been trying to get it working for I think 2 days now Sep 22 00:35:50 im supprised that rwhitby has not fixed it ... Sep 22 00:36:01 I don't use it Sep 22 00:36:39 who does? Sep 22 00:37:00 specificall, who made it to begin with? Sep 22 00:38:40 I've got my codesourcery ARM toolchain from it, I'm about to just snag the device libraries and headers from the OS X PDK and call it good Sep 22 00:41:35 Amaranth: yep, that's basically what we do on the autobuilder. We also snag the lunaservice library for dbus communication. Sep 22 00:41:57 scoutcamper: a group of people, including myself, made it. Sep 22 00:42:30 If I needed to compile an SDL app on Linux, I would use it. I just aren't doing that at the moment. Sep 22 00:52:48 bah maybe we should make a happy subset that we actually maintain Sep 22 00:52:55 that is just the toolchain and the palm libs from the PDK Sep 22 00:53:06 or something :) Sep 22 00:54:15 by we i mean someone that's not me: P Sep 22 01:00:27 dtzWill: agreed, on both counts :) Sep 22 01:05:44 Wahahahaha Sep 22 01:05:58 I shall need test subjects for this part of ze process soooon Sep 22 01:07:23 assuming I can find the stupid button to turn on my main monitor and switch its input... Sep 22 01:18:49 srsly? its taking ages to connect to my vps for some reason.... Sep 22 01:19:35 * halfhalo blames oil Sep 22 01:19:51 hi Sep 22 01:19:53 so Sep 22 01:20:05 sup Sep 22 01:22:01 ok, wtfbbq... transmit is being difficult... Sep 22 01:22:07 gonna jump off a bridge because of the widk Sep 22 01:22:12 i want it soooooooooooo bad Sep 22 01:22:13 :D Sep 22 01:22:27 brb restarting everathang Sep 22 01:23:15 it seems like the automake crap just needs to be rebuilt Sep 22 01:25:44 note to self: make sure the powerline box is plugged in before complaining about networky stuff Sep 22 01:27:32 it has NOTHING to do with the 100MB of webos packages that's in the folder... Sep 22 01:28:39 would love an official palm pdk for linux Sep 22 01:28:40 :< Sep 22 01:28:43 oo ooo what are you testing halfhalo :o Sep 22 01:29:03 simple feed maker for testing applications Sep 22 01:29:16 sounds cool Sep 22 01:29:20 yup Sep 22 01:29:39 i have so many things i want to dooo Sep 22 01:29:41 has user authentication as well Sep 22 01:30:35 sob Sep 22 01:30:51 I want to learn how to make webOS apps :T Sep 22 01:31:12 what do you want to know Sep 22 01:32:25 Javascript sounds like a good starting point, don't you think? ;p Sep 22 01:33:19 so, palm-package did not like preware due to the italian translation.... Sep 22 01:33:42 that's amore Sep 22 01:33:58 SineOt: definitely learn the core web languages first, HTML, CSS and Javascript Sep 22 01:34:11 I've got two of the three down~ Sep 22 01:34:17 Javascript is really the last hold out Sep 22 01:35:26 learn that and the rest will be pretty easy Sep 22 01:35:50 yeah, been reading up on the palm developer site Sep 22 01:35:58 bbiaf Sep 22 01:36:08 DAMN Sep 22 01:36:25 I don't get what file has been modified by the file watcher thing Sep 22 01:37:16 SineOt, what kind ofp rogramming do you know Sep 22 01:37:30 a little of a lot of things :p Sep 22 01:37:40 I'm not expecting to go out and write AAA Killer apps Sep 22 01:38:24 what are you expecting to make Sep 22 01:39:30 glorified hello world apps, then a simple front end to a few sites that I work with Sep 22 01:39:50 ah Sep 22 01:40:01 like I said, nothing AAA Sep 22 01:40:32 at this point, it's to learn it-because I know that I've got to start somewhere before I can go "ahah! AAA KILLER APP HELLO MILLIONS OF DOLLARS" type stuff :p Sep 22 01:40:52 well Sep 22 01:40:55 get a handle on jquery Sep 22 01:40:59 and you'll have won half the battle Sep 22 01:45:46 heh.... way to many packages being built at the same time... Sep 22 02:14:33 now, amI I caring enough to have a correct md5sum right now? Sep 22 02:53:55 it is time to see if this worked.... Sep 22 02:54:35 no gzip yet, but meh Sep 22 02:55:55 omgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomg **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Sep 22 02:59:57 2010