**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Sep 30 02:59:57 2010 Sep 30 03:05:30 I hate redmine right now.... Sep 30 04:22:22 Are there any patch makers that have already created patches for v2.0 using the v2.0 emulator? Sep 30 04:41:32 ryan[WIN]: widk in app cat is just fine. Sep 30 04:42:14 hey I got an idea for an application Sep 30 04:42:20 if there isn't oen already like it Sep 30 04:42:52 something that'll let you know if your 3rdparty apps or whatever are transmitting personal data like your contact lists and/or any other marketing data that users clearly don't want to give to shady assholes Sep 30 04:44:46 I doubt you could do it. You could possibly track who accesses info, but I can't imagine you would handle it sniffing traffic to tell if that data was being transmitted Sep 30 04:56:02 we've considered an app that real-time shows you the contents of the kernel connections table Sep 30 04:56:27 but I agree that sniffing for content is gonna need significant CPU power Sep 30 04:57:10 run it through a proxy Sep 30 04:57:21 and sniff that instead Sep 30 04:57:57 yeah offload it from the device, based on a selection of a connection shown in the other app :) Sep 30 04:58:21 use iptables for forward particular connection endpoints to a proxy Sep 30 06:20:00 ryan[WIN]: so you can't install app via app cat (fails to dl), preware hangs, and... finally managed to install the app...via WOQI? and now it won't run? Sep 30 06:20:08 (is that an accurate summary?) Sep 30 06:20:12 ya Sep 30 06:20:16 it runs fine on the command line Sep 30 06:20:19 just rebooted phone Sep 30 06:20:22 gonna see if it works now Sep 30 06:20:26 okay. gl. Sep 30 06:21:35 well that's swell Sep 30 06:21:37 it disappeared now Sep 30 06:21:45 well that explains why it wouldn't run. Sep 30 06:21:56 honestly might wanna nuke all installs you have of that.... Sep 30 06:22:08 how 2 Sep 30 06:22:11 i only have one Sep 30 06:22:27 ryan[WIN]: ...oh. Sep 30 06:23:02 just delete the dir? Sep 30 06:23:35 ryan[WIN]: no Sep 30 06:23:54 ryan[WIN]: mount -o remount,rw / Sep 30 06:24:03 ipkg remove org.webosinternals.supernes.preware Sep 30 06:24:21 ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps remove org.webosinternals.supernes.preware Sep 30 06:24:32 ryan[WIN]: we installed it in the wrong root :D. Sep 30 06:24:40 told ya we should've just used preware :P Sep 30 06:24:42 x.x Sep 30 06:24:51 * dtzWill tries to pretend it's not his fault Sep 30 06:25:18 then you can just install the one and it should work. might wanna just try app cat again b/c the double install across 2 roots probably didn't exactly help the situation Sep 30 06:32:04 ryan[WIN]: did we lose you? :D Sep 30 06:32:17 retrying over woqi Sep 30 06:32:25 ryan[WIN]: did you uninstall them both as mentioned? Sep 30 06:32:26 app catalog doesn't work Sep 30 06:32:27 yah Sep 30 06:32:43 fixt Sep 30 06:32:47 launches from launcher Sep 30 06:32:57 well yay for that Sep 30 06:33:00 and it's 1.0.4 or so? Sep 30 06:33:05 still crash on you? haha x.x Sep 30 06:33:24 no crashing Sep 30 06:33:25 wtf Sep 30 06:33:26 fml Sep 30 06:34:20 ryan[WIN]: lol Sep 30 06:36:20 oh god mariokart is impossible to play on the keyboard Sep 30 06:44:21 ryan[WIN]: idk i like it :P Sep 30 06:44:30 ryan[WIN]: really only need left and right and go Sep 30 06:46:47 i power slide Sep 30 06:46:56 like a mofo Sep 30 06:46:57 oh. yeah i do too, and you can't do that :( Sep 30 06:51:02 is there a flash plugin for pre yet Sep 30 06:55:21 After seeing how awful the android plugin is do you really want one? Sep 30 06:55:56 dunno maybe Sep 30 06:55:58 :D Sep 30 07:13:03 hay Sep 30 07:14:32 ryan[WIN]: ? Sep 30 07:14:45 nothin' Sep 30 07:15:03 dtzWill, i have launched and relaunched maybe 500 times Sep 30 07:15:03 and i can't reproduce bug Sep 30 07:15:07 so fmlll but oh well :D Sep 30 07:16:49 ryan[WIN]: lol. well tbh the new version should have fixed it :P Sep 30 07:17:03 ya Sep 30 07:17:06 but first time i ran the new version Sep 30 07:17:08 it crashed same way Sep 30 07:17:18 after that Sep 30 07:17:21 never could reproduce it Sep 30 07:17:30 maybe it was some file or data the old version was creating Sep 30 07:19:40 preware feeds down? Sep 30 07:21:18 nm Sep 30 07:31:38 morning Sep 30 09:11:05 is there anyway to get preware to hide packages based on a query Sep 30 09:11:17 there is the blacklist Sep 30 09:11:26 I'm sure somebody wants to see 52 updated applications with the term "Agent" in it every week, but I don't Sep 30 09:11:28 oh really?! Sep 30 09:11:31 yeah Sep 30 09:11:51 settings Sep 30 09:11:59 at the bottom Sep 30 09:12:05 cool, thanks Sep 30 11:24:43 rj Sep 30 13:54:10 frozen bubble would be a perfect pre game Sep 30 13:57:01 RagingMind, and it's in openembedded, not sure if it's broken or not Sep 30 14:00:21 do sdl programs need to be patched to use input on the pre or does sdl handle that transparently replacing mouse/keyboard with screen/pre-keyboard? Sep 30 14:01:29 i think it's transparent ... screen=mouse Sep 30 14:02:01 RagingMind, I don't know, but at the lowest levels(kernel) the kenrel forward raw stuff to the userspace Sep 30 14:02:20 but some people developed a tslib plugin for alternative distros Sep 30 14:02:37 which decode the raw feed Sep 30 14:17:32 so if the sdl was modified to talk to palm stuff it should work Sep 30 14:17:55 (I assumed you are using webos and not some other distros) Sep 30 16:03:31 anyone test out prefox?? Sep 30 16:03:54 any thoughts, suggestions, regrets? Sep 30 17:03:16 installing prefox... Sep 30 17:03:20 * RagingMind is excited Sep 30 17:55:58 leaderboards updated, vba #3, supernes down to #12 :) Sep 30 20:58:06 if one were to plug the pre into a computer in usb drive mode and format it as ext3... would everything on the pre still work? Sep 30 20:58:38 That... is a question I do not have an answer to... Sep 30 21:02:00 RagingMind: I guess Windows computer wouldn't be able to handle this USB volume then anymore Sep 30 21:03:59 I don't have a windows computer so not really worried about that Sep 30 21:04:10 it's more of a curiosity thing though Sep 30 21:04:10 try it and find out? Sep 30 21:04:38 I've been a bad smart phone user and I haven't backed up anything Sep 30 21:04:51 tsk tsk Sep 30 21:04:53 * Mousey points Sep 30 21:16:37 has anyone got the messinger plugins patch installed on there pre? mine has decided to install but not sign on Sep 30 21:29:50 the messinger plugins onley signs online if im connected by wifi Sep 30 23:57:49 cryptk|wirc: I blame you for this! Sep 30 23:57:56 for what? Sep 30 23:58:07 translations Sep 30 23:59:11 of? Sep 30 23:59:18 hey guys Sep 30 23:59:37 I have this audio cable that won't let me open my device when it's plugged in because the tip is too wide Sep 30 23:59:46 and the power button broke off when my fone hit the ground Sep 30 23:59:46 ok? Sep 30 23:59:56 is there a way to keep the screen lit constantly? Oct 01 00:00:28 I'm streamin gpandora to a mixer and it's really inconvient to unplug the device slide it open to see what trackit is/thumbs up/down Oct 01 00:00:40 the screen&lock gives a 3 minute max Oct 01 00:00:52 i was wondering if there was an always on for when the device was plugged into a power source Oct 01 00:01:06 mode switcher Oct 01 00:01:07 there may be a patch for it? I know its possible Oct 01 00:01:12 there you go Oct 01 00:01:21 shades, just hit volume up/down, or get dikes and cut that cord Oct 01 00:01:32 to size* Oct 01 00:03:18 'get dikes to cut that cord to size' ?what? Oct 01 00:03:27 rwhitby: 'mode' switcher?? Oct 01 00:03:43 shades: homebrew app in Preware Oct 01 00:03:45 scoutcamper: vol up/down works great Oct 01 00:03:57 :D Oct 01 00:04:10 or touchstone it? Oct 01 00:04:32 rwhitby: are you aware of an application that'll inform you if other applications are trying to send your peronsal information/data/contacts/phone numbers/etc to a remote source? Oct 01 00:04:40 scoutcamper: 'touchstone' ? Oct 01 00:05:24 shades, the puck type thing Oct 01 00:05:29 shades: use iptables to run the network connection through a proxy, and sniff it on the proxy Oct 01 00:05:58 http://www.palm.com/us/products/accessories/touchstone-technology.html screen is always on when on this Oct 01 00:07:39 scoutcamper: oh, that over priced wireless inductor or whatever? Oct 01 00:08:07 'overpriced'? Oct 01 00:08:12 Their like 20 dollars Oct 01 00:08:15 isn't it like 70 bucks? Oct 01 00:08:17 at most Oct 01 00:09:20 it is seriously cheap and usefull Oct 01 00:09:47 yup Oct 01 00:09:55 I have to many Oct 01 00:11:03 although i really don't use any anymore... Oct 01 00:11:14 i dont have enough, getting some mor to mount in cars :D Oct 01 00:11:39 no place to mount it in my car Oct 01 00:13:19 Heh, my recaptcha code was, "salami brethren". :D Oct 01 00:13:52 Sounds like I'm joining some sort of cold cuts cult. *rimshot* Oct 01 00:14:21 ok, done Oct 01 00:18:33 rwhitby: the reason I ask is because there's this taintdroid application that does just that for android Oct 01 00:19:00 if there doesn't exist one for palm I'd like to possibly consider start making one (if the technical challange isn't going to be so great) so I could have something to put in my portfolio/resume Oct 01 00:19:11 but if something like tht exists already well then I've been beat Oct 01 00:19:13 You want to know if applications are sending out private data without your consent? Oct 01 00:19:34 Only homebrew really can send that type of stuff without the user knowing Oct 01 00:20:12 Zen00: yes Oct 01 00:20:33 halfhalo: how many apps slip by the prestore that can do this? Oct 01 00:20:41 if something like this doesn't exist it should Oct 01 00:21:04 what do you mean slip by the prestore? Oct 01 00:21:08 users need to be aware applications have 100% access to their personal life and by definition so do 3rd party marketin gcompanies that are buying your data with out you seeing ared cent of it Oct 01 00:21:26 halfhalo: get approved to be in the prestore or whatever but still do the phone-home stuff w/o the uesrs consent Oct 01 00:21:42 i've only been prompted about 'locational services' never about having my contact list uploaded somewhere Oct 01 00:21:52 phone home is one thing, accessing personal data is another Oct 01 00:22:17 when I mean phoning home, I mean phoning home with your personal data to be sold off to third parties for profits that you're not going to see Oct 01 00:22:26 applications that are in the app catalog do not get access to other applications contact list, calendar, or location Oct 01 00:22:32 well, location if they allow it Oct 01 00:22:55 is this something that's simply stated in the ToS or are there actual technological safe gards against this happening? Oct 01 00:23:14 shades: The latter. Oct 01 00:23:20 Yup Oct 01 00:23:33 Though, 2.0 is supposed to give better API access for synergy, so that may change somewhat. Oct 01 00:23:36 how 'safe' are those gards? Oct 01 00:23:52 'for synergy' ? Oct 01 00:23:53 Safe as in auto rejection from the application catalog if they are used Oct 01 00:24:10 synergy is the thing that ties all your data together Oct 01 00:24:16 i'm sorry Oct 01 00:24:37 synergy is an application for mac/win/*nix that lets you tie together several monitors for use of one keyboard/mouse on multiple machines Oct 01 00:24:53 naming something else synergy is confusing and possibly illegal Oct 01 00:25:23 I don't think we're talking about the same synergy Oct 01 00:25:42 No we are not Oct 01 00:25:43 eitherway Oct 01 00:25:55 there is no safegard against preware applications doing this? Oct 01 00:26:53 For homebrew apps? There is no technical safeguard, but any app that tries to phone home like that will not be included in the feeds Oct 01 00:27:22 is someone fine combing thousands of lines of code to make sure that doesn't happen or...? Oct 01 00:28:54 All but the precentral feed in preware (not counting the palm feeds) consist of applications that have been either built by internals or screened extensively, and only a few applications can even do it Oct 01 00:29:18 so you're saying I should waste my time on another project? Oct 01 00:30:29 the other idea Ihad was to create a kaossilator application Oct 01 00:30:46 but I was told this is either a) not possible or b) maddening because the latency I want is going to require low level coding or whatever Oct 01 00:31:32 yup, js will be to slow for that Oct 01 00:39:46 * Zen00 thinks it's funny, watching Mythbusters and actually being able to tell if they're doing it right or wrong. "Damn you Physics 123!" Oct 01 00:40:01 lol Oct 01 00:42:14 halfhalo: but it is possible to write something like that? Oct 01 00:42:17 what language would it hve to be in? Oct 01 00:42:41 c? Oct 01 00:43:02 c++ or c? Oct 01 00:43:13 I... don't remember Oct 01 00:43:43 I don't do pdk stuff Oct 01 00:45:24 shades : one way (incomplete) is to write a shell script (python,perl ruby whatever) to comb through different apps to see if they send data off Oct 01 00:45:35 but it's not going to be very good Oct 01 00:45:56 but would be useful in triaging (somewhat) Oct 01 00:46:30 the other part is to run things through a proxy and analyze the traffic Oct 01 00:46:41 it's a good thing to do but a big undertaking Oct 01 00:46:45 by all means go for it. Oct 01 00:47:18 obviously if its c/c++ you cant scan the code but at least you can monitor the traffic Oct 01 00:50:03 jhojho: everything points to not needing that software Oct 01 00:50:07 there are 'safegards' Oct 01 00:50:24 i don't want to waste my time with something pointless when I can make something usefeul Oct 01 00:50:59 what safeguards? Oct 01 00:51:19 your only real safeguard is if you read through the code Oct 01 00:51:41 jhojho: safeguards for app-cat apps Oct 01 00:51:55 sure... Oct 01 00:52:16 and i also trust my phones not to upload things to palm Oct 01 00:52:36 * Zen00 is still waiting for a reply from Palm on whither he can get a free phone or not. Oct 01 00:52:39 have fun with that. Oct 01 00:52:42 Did any of you ask for one either? Oct 01 00:52:54 i asked for a free car Oct 01 00:53:03 I got a free car Oct 01 00:53:12 Its a matchbox car, but whatevs Oct 01 00:53:16 Looks like a shipping error. Oct 01 00:54:20 hmm...my phone seems to have lost the ability to perform dns lookups...fun Oct 01 00:55:28 thats a feature Oct 01 00:55:35 You know what my Pre doesn't do for me? It doesn't make me lose weight. :( Oct 01 00:55:50 yeah mine either Oct 01 00:56:13 There's got to be a way to harness all this cellphone radiation that people are afraid of... Oct 01 00:57:01 Is it tinfoil hat time still? Oct 01 00:57:15 It's always tinfoil hat time! Oct 01 00:57:24 unlock its power to dissolve fat Oct 01 00:57:41 I lent my tinfoil hat to the garden gnomes Oct 01 00:57:55 GRRREEEEAT, desktop can't connect to the network again... Oct 01 00:57:58 I made a little tinfoil hat for my Pre. Oct 01 00:58:18 I call him Napoleon Preaparte. Oct 01 00:58:56 I also demand that to be drawn as a Pre-Doodle. Oct 01 01:00:31 i have a dev phone on 1.4.5 (upgraded with metadoctor) and i'm trying to edit provision-assistant.js to allow me to add my account but it says the file is read only. i see that / is mounted rw though and i am root already. can you help? Oct 01 01:01:21 rootfs_open -w Oct 01 01:03:51 thank you Oct 01 01:08:19 attempting to use this. http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_webOS_Bypassing_Activation#Create_a_Palm_Profile is there an updated copy or something? or do i need to downgrade to 1.1 Oct 01 01:42:18 Classic college dinner: chips n salsa and knockoff top ramen Oct 01 01:42:46 God, I never have this anymore Oct 01 01:43:59 I had the chips and salsa, but that's because I wanted more vegetables in my diet. Oct 01 01:44:48 I had an excellent tuna sandwich with havarati cheese, chips, and a rice crispie treat for lunch. Oct 01 01:45:00 lol Oct 01 01:46:23 I would be in heaven if chipotle delivered Oct 01 01:46:57 Make your own enchiladas. Oct 01 01:47:01 and the chipotle next to my school would rake in the money Oct 01 01:47:09 bah, thats effort, and I get a bowl Oct 01 01:47:37 * chronomex grabs halfhalo's bowl and smokes it Oct 01 01:47:45 oh Oct 01 01:47:46 wrong bowl Oct 01 01:48:17 I cook all my own food. last week I even made a lemon-merangue pie! Oct 01 01:48:51 I usually get chipotle for lunch Oct 01 01:49:37 fearphage: "If you're after a maintained tool to do this, look for the WebOS Internals Meta-Doctor." Oct 01 01:49:53 top of that page. sage advice, cause everything else on that page is obsolete Oct 01 01:51:18 metadoctor is a wonderful thing... Oct 01 01:51:56 If only it worked on a Windows machine. Oct 01 01:53:46 Montaigne developed the essay, and was cursed by generations of university students ever since. Oct 01 01:55:48 has anyone heard anything about the Free Developer Device program? Oct 01 01:56:12 Yes. Oct 01 01:56:25 I'm hoping to get one, not likely, unless no one else signs up. Oct 01 01:56:43 what are the criteria? Oct 01 01:56:53 If they like you. Oct 01 01:57:02 based on what? Oct 01 01:57:04 Just send them an email saying what you do. Oct 01 01:57:14 That's all the information involved. Oct 01 01:57:23 And of course telling them that you want one. Oct 01 01:57:35 And your address for shipping. Oct 01 01:57:49 Website, and telephone number. Oct 01 01:57:56 That should do. Oct 01 01:58:00 I don't have any apps though Oct 01 01:58:05 I'm working on my first one right now Oct 01 01:58:10 so I'm "unknown" Oct 01 01:58:16 Me neither, that's why I think I have less than a fat chance of getting one. Oct 01 01:58:30 weird Oct 01 01:58:31 I have three half apps, I think that counts as 1.5. Oct 01 01:58:40 it seems like such an informal process Oct 01 01:58:59 I'm waiting to see if I get another email with more information. Oct 01 01:58:59 it always is - that allows for maximum discretion Oct 01 01:59:25 I'm stuck at trying to make my own button sub-routine so that I can custumozie button images. Oct 01 01:59:30 rwhitby: sure, it just throws me off Oct 01 02:01:19 Once I get that finished then I just have to make a cutomized counter flip screen (using the flip clock graphics) then I'm done. Oct 01 02:01:44 I could skip the button thing entirely, but I'm doing it to learn. Oct 01 02:02:14 I got some good help, but even with that I couldn't grasp it, like I said I've never been good shakes at programming. Why I gave it up as a major. Oct 01 02:02:27 I'm much better at pushing around atoms. Oct 01 02:14:35 * Zen00 checks to see if the app catalog bug is really fixed. Oct 01 02:14:41 I'd say yes. Oct 01 02:15:31 * Zen00 leaves his phone to perculate. Oct 01 02:20:20 I wonder if there's an art lab on campus where I can use a wacom tablet, I really don't want to drop $280 for one. Oct 01 02:20:41 get a laptop with an integrated screen one Oct 01 02:20:48 my tx2000z was only like $650 Oct 01 02:21:00 dualcore amd, 4gb ram, 250gb drive Oct 01 02:21:10 get a PalmPad :D Oct 01 02:21:16 and the wacom tablet is built into the screen Oct 01 02:22:09 I have a much more powerful computer than any notebook will be for another five years, I'm not paying $650 for one. I had one once, and I hated it. Oct 01 02:22:25 scoutcamper: That's what I'm hoping for. Oct 01 02:22:44 I was the one who found the original rumor, which has never surfaced again unfortunately. Oct 01 02:22:52 maybe adobe will port photoshop to webos ???? :D Oct 01 02:23:03 Zen00 wich rumor? Oct 01 02:23:04 I wanted that too. Oct 01 02:23:16 That the PalmPad would include a digitizer for pen input. Oct 01 02:23:29 would be cool Oct 01 02:23:42 But really, I want a real Wacom tablet for the increased sensitivity over a screen. Oct 01 02:24:07 ebay? get one chaep from someone? Oct 01 02:24:50 Nope. Oct 01 02:24:52 Tried there. Oct 01 02:25:01 They all sell for around the price of a new one. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Oct 01 02:59:57 2010