**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 10 02:59:57 2010 Dec 10 03:02:57 come on hp shup us those pre2's! Dec 10 03:02:58 * dtzWill cracks whip Dec 10 03:03:37 * oil gets pitchfork and joins mob Dec 10 03:04:02 *rabble rabble rabble* Dec 10 03:04:06 * scoutcamper burns down a small forest and joins mob :D Dec 10 03:14:04 hlfhlo: why you buy my old domain? Dec 10 03:14:54 * hlfhlo didn't know it was your old domain till he was told today and he wanted a pre related domain fo some webos testing stuffs Dec 10 03:15:27 Puffy_pixi, what is the address? Dec 10 03:16:13 www.louvre.fr Dec 10 03:16:28 oh, hang on. www.preyourmind.org Dec 10 03:16:35 LOL! Dec 10 03:16:39 * oil visits www.louvre.fr Dec 10 03:16:41 hlfhlo: ya that was mine Dec 10 03:16:45 * hlfhlo still can't actually see the image due to his stupid dns Dec 10 03:16:51 oil: hard to tell them apart Dec 10 03:16:56 lol Dec 10 03:17:20 I love how my old domain is now a rick roll Dec 10 03:17:26 against me Dec 10 03:17:36 :p Dec 10 03:17:44 haha Dec 10 03:18:16 * halfhalo hasn't even pointed it at a server yet... just domain forwarding via godaddy Dec 10 03:18:27 guess I should make a mockup of next wirc for that site Dec 10 03:19:15 halfhalo: well you now have the most bas ass pre domain imaginable Dec 10 03:19:29 DUNDUNDUN!!!!! Dec 10 03:19:42 * oil has always thought "preyourmind" was a great name Dec 10 03:19:51 halfhalo: some people probably still have that site in their preware configs Dec 10 03:20:05 oil: it was and is Dec 10 03:20:10 halfhalo, you should do a dns redirect to webos-internals.org Dec 10 03:20:14 I should have let it expire Dec 10 03:20:14 * halfhalo will look at that once its up Dec 10 03:20:30 shouldn't have Dec 10 03:20:31 PuffTheMagic, looks like most of the private ioctl's are defined in marvel's code Dec 10 03:20:46 ? Dec 10 03:20:59 in their oss code? Dec 10 03:21:02 yeah Dec 10 03:21:19 there has to be libertas equivelants Dec 10 03:21:58 PuffTheMagic, I don't think so Dec 10 03:22:18 ok, i give, Puffy_pixi egaudet what evil plan are you concocting? Dec 10 03:22:18 these are private ioctls defined by the hw/driver, not generic Dec 10 03:22:34 I know that Dec 10 03:22:40 that's why they are priv Dec 10 03:23:05 egaudet: check upstream libertas Dec 10 03:23:14 git.kernel.org Dec 10 03:23:22 compat-wireless Dec 10 03:24:25 it builds on .26 Dec 10 03:24:32 but it don't load Dec 10 03:24:38 gpio pin issue Dec 10 03:25:31 in .36 kernel tree drivers/net/wireless/libertas ? Dec 10 03:25:54 no Dec 10 03:26:05 compat-wireless repo Dec 10 03:26:16 has latest wifi backported Dec 10 03:28:09 have you tried the latest already? Dec 10 03:28:39 I've tried libertas from compat-wireless Dec 10 03:28:45 it build and loads Dec 10 03:28:51 but don't work Dec 10 03:28:58 gpio error Dec 10 03:29:08 gonna work that out with morphis Dec 10 03:32:10 how do you even build? Dec 10 03:33:20 ohhh Dec 10 03:33:24 get a tar ball Dec 10 03:33:31 git is a pita for that Dec 10 03:33:38 need to do all this voodoo Dec 10 03:35:53 too bad there's no open pvr driver Dec 10 03:37:26 Loudergood, there is Dec 10 03:37:37 oh Dec 10 03:38:34 get a tar ball? from space? Dec 10 03:38:58 what's it called? Dec 10 03:39:01 from linux wireless website Dec 10 03:41:49 http://www.orbit-lab.org/kernel/compat-wireless-2.6-stable/v2.6.32/compat-wireless-2.6.32.16.tar.bz2 Dec 10 03:45:18 Loudergood, the TI Graphics SDK is open source Dec 10 03:45:54 Palm has released code on opensource.palm.com as well for their modified version of the pvr driver Dec 10 03:46:01 egaudet, nice work on the ioctls Dec 10 03:46:10 wpa is working via luna on my pre :D Dec 10 03:46:49 nice Dec 10 03:47:18 and web browsing working Dec 10 03:47:38 i really dont want to have to build the ieeee modules into this module though Dec 10 03:48:02 i just stripped all that shit out of the repo Dec 10 03:48:09 now i have to revert those commits Dec 10 03:48:44 egaudet, sure wish i knew why the touchscreen stops working in 2.0 Dec 10 03:49:08 PuffTheMagic, you don't have to build the ieeee into that module Dec 10 03:49:17 can build them separately Dec 10 03:49:29 but then u have to modprobe them your self Dec 10 03:49:39 thats not a viable solution Dec 10 03:51:10 what _are_ you guys up to? looking for an alt wireless driver for one of the devices? Dec 10 03:51:21 PuffTheMagic, egaudet what are u doing? Dec 10 03:51:24 their crazy Dec 10 03:51:53 dtzWill, ya, i got an opensource wifi driver working on the pre Dec 10 03:52:01 and egaudet made it work in luna Dec 10 03:52:13 presumably working on getting open driver support for all the hardware so that we can use newer kernels Dec 10 03:52:25 nothing to do with newer kernels Dec 10 03:52:28 that is a pipe dream Dec 10 03:53:08 PuffTheMagic, why is it not a viable solution? Dec 10 03:53:32 PuffTheMagic: sweet deals :). Dec 10 03:54:17 egaudet, how are u going to ensure they get loaded? Dec 10 03:54:52 ? Dec 10 03:55:00 destinal, ?? Dec 10 03:55:05 ??? Dec 10 03:55:22 what's wrong with trying for mainline? Dec 10 03:55:40 destinal, what are u talking about? Dec 10 03:55:49 newer kernels is a pipedream, you say Dec 10 03:55:54 defend that statement! :) Dec 10 03:56:08 well... the pre has been out for 1.5 years now Dec 10 03:56:14 and no one has come close Dec 10 03:56:20 everyone who has tried has given up Dec 10 03:56:28 unless palm releases a newer kernel Dec 10 03:56:31 ok, so it's challenging Dec 10 03:56:48 _very_ challenging Dec 10 03:57:23 its too challenging for anyone to expect a newer kernel to emerge from the hb community before palm them selves release a newer kernel Dec 10 03:57:34 and even if that happened Dec 10 03:57:42 its not like its going to bring magical new powers Dec 10 03:57:46 and super speeds Dec 10 03:57:53 which eveyone seems to thinkl Dec 10 03:58:21 no, there's nothing wrong with the kernel palm maintains so long as they or TI backport critical thingsd Dec 10 03:58:26 I'm ok Dec 10 03:58:44 we can backport critical things too Dec 10 03:58:46 thats easy Dec 10 03:59:00 I was under the impression that one of the main difficulties was binary drivers compiled for a specific kernel abi...that's all Dec 10 03:59:03 its reimplementing the sirloin board stuff that is hard Dec 10 03:59:15 Loudergood, no that is not an issue Dec 10 03:59:23 I see Dec 10 03:59:30 Loudergood, the issue is not having source code for those closed source modules Dec 10 03:59:37 * halfhalo wants steak now... Dec 10 03:59:37 if we had them we could rebuild them Dec 10 03:59:51 PuffTheMagic, we have source for everything now Dec 10 04:00:26 I was under the impression that graphics and wireless were the closed source modules Dec 10 04:00:43 egaudet, wireless is open now :D Dec 10 04:00:44 hence my confusion Dec 10 04:00:51 err Dec 10 04:00:57 Loudergood, wireless is open now :D Dec 10 04:01:01 and my huge ^5 to you guys Dec 10 04:01:12 PuffTheMagic, wireless is open, and we have bridgedriver and graphics driver source too Dec 10 04:01:14 that's all of the modules Dec 10 04:01:28 we dont have the useland shit for the graphics Dec 10 04:01:38 so having the graphics stuff is useless Dec 10 04:01:44 1/2 useless Dec 10 04:03:40 we have userland stuff for the graphics Dec 10 04:03:47 just no combination that works on pre-/+ Dec 10 04:04:02 oh wow, i just found out something interesting Dec 10 04:04:12 once the pre2 gets here I'll verify that we can rebuild working graphics driver Dec 10 04:04:16 doctoring your device works _much_ better when you don't use a faulty usb port x.x Dec 10 04:04:28 :( Dec 10 04:04:32 ouch Dec 10 04:04:38 awwww Dec 10 04:04:46 lol, I have to always unplug and replug my usb cable because it gets so damn sluggish Dec 10 04:05:04 the doctor ramdisk was loading at a snail's pace yesterday at one point Dec 10 04:05:41 i'm just glad b/c previously it would consistently fail while trying to format one of the partitions Dec 10 04:05:47 and...that failing repeatedly was :( Dec 10 04:05:53 on my brand new pixi :( Dec 10 04:06:04 broken usb port? psh i got plenty more xD Dec 10 04:06:10 oh yeah, so good news for you Dec 10 04:06:30 nothing is worse than getting shiny new hardware and thinking it's broken Dec 10 04:21:15 egaudet, u never told me how u plan to ensure the ieee modules are loaded if built as modules Dec 10 04:25:11 upstart Dec 10 04:25:22 or depmod Dec 10 04:25:47 depmod is for modprobe Dec 10 04:25:56 that wont help if the wifi service uses insmod Dec 10 04:26:03 ok upstart Dec 10 04:26:15 what if they get unloaded? Dec 10 04:27:00 yell at whoever did that Dec 10 04:28:17 although I guess there will be a bit of a race condition Dec 10 04:28:39 I don't know exactly how upstart works Dec 10 04:29:37 PmWiFiService could modprobe the ieee modules Dec 10 04:29:44 but im just worried they could get unloaded Dec 10 04:29:47 then people will be stuck Dec 10 04:30:00 may as well just build them all into the wifi driver Dec 10 04:30:13 PmWiFiService modprobe huh? Dec 10 04:30:25 why would you worry that something could get unloaded? Dec 10 04:30:28 modules don't unload themselves Dec 10 04:30:44 wait a sec Dec 10 04:30:49 maybe we can make a udev rule Dec 10 04:30:55 that catches when sd8xxx is loaded Dec 10 04:31:01 and autoloads the ieee modules Dec 10 04:31:02 sd8xxx cannot be loaded Dec 10 04:31:22 the ieee modules must be loaded prior to sd8xxx attempting to loead Dec 10 04:31:24 load* Dec 10 04:31:30 yes no shit Dec 10 04:31:37 so udev rule can't happen Dec 10 04:31:38 can you blacklist it with a modules.conf? Dec 10 04:31:42 because sd8xxx will NEVER get loaded Dec 10 04:32:40 there is no udev rule right now for sd8xxx Dec 10 04:32:45 so of course it will fail Dec 10 04:32:51 PuffTheMagic, what are you talking about? Dec 10 04:33:01 have u ever written udev rules? Dec 10 04:33:03 sd8xxx cannot load becuase it has missing symbols, no udev rule will ever get triggered Dec 10 04:33:38 if u got that error, then it was attempted to load Dec 10 04:33:40 but failed Dec 10 04:33:54 which means there should be an event that occured when it tried to load Dec 10 04:33:58 no there isn't Dec 10 04:34:18 and even if there was, it failed you can't do that, PmWiFiService will move on Dec 10 04:34:25 I don't think there's a way to do what you think Dec 10 04:34:46 the symbols need to exist otherwise the module isn't getting in, you have to do that BEFORE insmod is ever called Dec 10 04:34:58 modprobe ieee80211 || return 1 Dec 10 04:35:13 will prevent pmwifi from starting Dec 10 04:35:17 huh? Dec 10 04:36:27 if modprobe fails it will not return 0 Dec 10 04:36:32 like any normal app Dec 10 04:36:52 so check its return value end the script if it does not load Dec 10 04:37:25 where are you putting that? Dec 10 04:37:53 I was trying to avoid patching Dec 10 04:38:44 if we are going to overwrite a kernel module, what do have against patching the pmwifi upstart script? Dec 10 04:39:40 I've grown to despise patching Dec 10 04:39:42 lol Dec 10 04:40:18 * halfhalo has popcorn Dec 10 04:41:01 lol Dec 10 04:41:21 egaudet: put it in a theme instead Dec 10 04:41:25 haha Dec 10 04:43:14 * egaudet wonders what would happen if I made a package that aufs'd all of /etc and /usr Dec 10 04:43:18 egaudet, well its either a race condition, or patch Dec 10 04:43:21 pick your evil Dec 10 04:43:26 PuffTheMagic, well how does upstart work Dec 10 04:43:43 what kind of question is that Dec 10 04:43:51 a good one? Dec 10 04:43:54 if A and B both start on "stopped finished" and C starts on A started, is there any rule that says B will or will not start before C Dec 10 04:44:26 its threaded Dec 10 04:44:28 so its a race Dec 10 04:45:42 PuffTheMagic, or just reproduce PmWifiService upstart Dec 10 04:45:45 * halfhalo hides the loot Dec 10 04:45:59 egaudet, and overwrite it ? Dec 10 04:46:10 how is that different than a patch? Dec 10 04:46:19 PmWifiService_libertas starts on started PmWiFiService, stops PmWiFiService and does what WiFiService was going to do but first loads ieeee's Dec 10 04:46:33 thats retarded Dec 10 04:46:44 but it persists accross updates, so BAM! Dec 10 04:46:51 EN YO FACE Dec 10 04:48:32 hell as a matter of fact, let's bspatch a new copy of PmWiFiService that changes sd8xxx insmod to libertas insmod, and not overwite any palm file Dec 10 04:49:26 egaudet: one letter too few Dec 10 04:50:21 rwhitby, but the insmod line has a couple parameters we don't need Dec 10 04:50:25 so we got plenty to work with ;) Dec 10 04:52:32 egaudet, so this libertas driver work with palms firmware Dec 10 05:00:19 PuffTheMagic, sorta workks Dec 10 05:00:31 interface comes up Dec 10 05:00:42 i can connect to my existing profile Dec 10 05:00:54 iwlist eth0 scanning works Dec 10 05:01:04 but the luna app cant seem to get a list of networks Dec 10 05:01:15 PuffTheMagic, sorta workks Dec 10 05:01:17 xD Dec 10 05:02:47 what oil said Dec 10 05:03:39 PuffTheMagic, WLAN_CACHE_SCAN_NETWORKS is being dummied Dec 10 05:03:52 as is WLAN_SCANPROBES Dec 10 05:05:28 i dont get why this worked with the other fw Dec 10 05:06:09 oh it works with other firmware? Dec 10 05:06:12 then good Dec 10 05:06:31 what? Dec 10 05:06:34 im confused Dec 10 05:06:39 idk what u are referring to Dec 10 05:07:26 i dont get why this worked with the other fw Dec 10 05:07:40 yes I said that Dec 10 05:09:05 using the fw from marvels site, luna shows available networks Dec 10 05:09:19 using palm fw luna does not Dec 10 05:09:39 but with both fw eth0 exists Dec 10 05:09:44 and can associate Dec 10 05:09:50 and transfer data Dec 10 05:10:13 and with palm fw, iwlist eth0 scanning works Dec 10 05:10:33 so I don't get why luna can't see accesspoints Dec 10 05:12:20 * scoutcamper hopes this doesnt just hit a snag and die like frankendoctor did Dec 10 05:12:53 scoutcamper: I take it it's switching some wifi drivers, but what for? :o Dec 10 05:13:17 new wifi abilites from what i gather Dec 10 05:14:09 how about just opensource drivers Dec 10 05:14:22 not needing palms closed source shit Dec 10 05:14:44 how about maybe ap mode and mesh mode in the future Dec 10 05:14:51 how about injection or monitor mode Dec 10 05:15:00 mesh mode? Dec 10 05:15:22 mesh is like multi peer adhoc mode Dec 10 05:15:33 ahh Dec 10 05:15:34 ok Dec 10 05:15:37 imagine 100 pre's in a room all forming their own network Dec 10 05:15:54 imagine what that could do for pre2pre gaming Dec 10 05:16:09 PuffTheMagic, i want that if they all have LTE and each share their bandwith :D Dec 10 05:16:30 so i can mooch with my laptop Dec 10 05:16:37 yay speedy internet :D Dec 10 05:17:43 mesh wont help u if your laptop cant do mesh Dec 10 05:18:23 i have a broadcomm 57xx chipset Dec 10 05:19:05 yay Dec 10 05:19:10 per google it can Dec 10 05:19:12 :D Dec 10 05:19:12 that does not mean anything to me Dec 10 05:19:23 i dont emorize all chipsets Dec 10 05:19:44 that's why you read the next few lines that say "according to google it can!" Dec 10 05:20:23 i already pressed enter Dec 10 05:21:51 lol Dec 10 05:21:53 :D Dec 10 05:29:32 PuffTheMagic, my googling tells me that iwpriv commands were ripped from libertas long ago and forwn upon using iwpriv... Dec 10 05:30:13 and I'm going to bed, night Dec 10 05:37:41 egaudet: ya iwpriv is bad Dec 10 05:40:44 why Dec 10 05:42:24 I just installed Squid on my USB Mouse Dec 10 05:42:30 Skaag: oc80z: you serious? Dec 10 05:47:43 halfhalo, start a debate on something Dec 10 05:49:11 no? Dec 10 06:00:00 halfhalo, random debate, should preware be like cydia and allow paid homebrew? Dec 10 06:08:50 scoutcamper: too much hassle and then you become all commercial and stuff, who wants that? Dec 10 06:14:28 never get between a lawyer and money Dec 10 06:35:59 Hi everyone Dec 10 06:36:06 g'day NuttyBunny Dec 10 06:37:56 I just got my AT&T Pre Plus (the free one for developers), but the thing won't boot at all, it just stay there, on the static palm logo (not glowing), I've left it charging and it goes nowhere. I disconnected the power and after a while it died... Dec 10 06:38:28 NuttyBunny: recovery boot? Dec 10 06:38:28 At least the recovery mode works, should I stop trying and just doctor it? :) Dec 10 06:38:48 you should doctor it anyway, you have no idea what's been done to it before Dec 10 06:39:50 Yeah, I'm downloading the doctor as we speak, but I'm on a 1mb line and it'll take at least another half hour :( Dec 10 06:40:01 Do you know if these come unlocked? Dec 10 06:41:15 I strongly doubt it Dec 10 06:43:04 ok, I'll prepare the Meta Doctor to at least use it over wifi :) Dec 10 06:43:44 I'll doctor it normally and stick my Telcel SIM on it, if it responds, fine, if it don't, I'll skip activation and use it on wifi until I unlock it :) Dec 10 06:56:52 Destinal, did you see that Pokey9000 made rdnis work on the nookcolor? that would be cool to have on webos. Dec 10 06:57:13 would mean we didn't have the novacom drivers to communicate. Dec 10 06:58:12 NuttyBunny: Yeah, it's weird, my dev ATT did the same thing Dec 10 06:58:18 so I just doctored it with 1.4.5 Dec 10 06:58:31 Too weird, I booted it with the install boot kernel (http://en.m.webos-internals.org/wiki/Last_Resort_Emergency_BootLoader_Recovery), but I can't find anything strange in the logs... init 1 should reboot it? (it can't find the reboot command, nor shutdown) Dec 10 06:59:21 I can't find anything weird in it, it just won't boot :( --- 71% for the Doctor :) Dec 10 06:59:25 ka6sox: well there's already usbnet Dec 10 06:59:34 ka6sox: but RNDIS is way more compatible. Dec 10 06:59:52 I think the module we need is g_ether Dec 10 06:59:57 RNDIS ethernet gadget Dec 10 07:00:16 he had a serial gadget in the nooter image for nookcolor too which would be handy Dec 10 07:00:40 bind it to a getty for when you can bring up a terminal but not much else Dec 10 07:01:48 ok, tellbootie shutdown did the trick, booting again to see if I can find something interesting ;) Dec 10 07:02:01 NuttyBunny: did you mount the disks? Dec 10 07:02:05 looking for log stuff Dec 10 07:02:07 ? Dec 10 07:02:48 yeah, no errors :( Dec 10 07:02:53 hmmm Dec 10 07:03:11 yeah I'd probably just doctor. nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure :P Dec 10 07:03:42 I know, I just wanted to see if I could I find something before the doctor arrived to my machine... 81% :D Dec 10 07:03:44 NuttyBunny: if you really wanted to know Dec 10 07:04:04 NuttyBunny: you could enable developer mode and novaterm in, stop LunaSysMgr Dec 10 07:04:08 and run it by hand Dec 10 07:04:15 the serial gadget would be good for a non-proprietary console Dec 10 07:04:53 NuttyBunny: you'd need the novacom drivers though, from SDK or doctor Dec 10 07:05:17 destinal: it won't boot past the static palm logo, I just got it today (I've had a Pre for a year) :D Dec 10 07:05:31 NuttyBunny: yeah but you can enable dev mode from the installer image Dec 10 07:06:39 mmm.. well, if I boot from the installer image I can connect to the Pre, so, can I mount everything in its place and try to boot? Dec 10 07:06:55 NuttyBunny: I personally wouldn't Dec 10 07:07:02 NuttyBunny: I'd mount /var (store-var) Dec 10 07:07:13 and "touch /var/gadget/novacom_enabled" Dec 10 07:07:22 or "/mnt/var/gadget .. " whatever Dec 10 07:07:35 then next time you boot normally novacom will work Dec 10 07:07:41 even before Luna starts Dec 10 07:07:53 destinal: ah, nice, lemme try it Dec 10 07:09:28 NuttyBunny: now I know where I remember you from, the frankendoctor thread thing Dec 10 07:11:23 and many other threads, I post regularly on greg_roll's Messaging plugins, and in somline's battery experiments :) Dec 10 07:12:12 NuttyBunny: I tend to avoid forums, I've been in this from around when we started in IRC but I have like 2-3 posts in p|c Dec 10 07:13:05 greg_roll is still doing the plugins? He used to hang around here and I guess he doesn't like us any more :) Dec 10 07:13:14 I tend to be more over there... that way it's easier to follow the threads :) Dec 10 07:13:38 greg, I think he's waiting for Palm to release the API's for webOS 2.0 for the messaging thingies Dec 10 07:14:01 he updated the plugins a few days ago just to change some certificates, nothing new Dec 10 07:17:04 does he still release source code too? Dec 10 07:17:19 we used to have something in preware Dec 10 07:17:39 No idea :( Dec 10 07:17:49 NuttyBunny: any luck on getting novacom working in the normal boot process? Dec 10 07:18:08 no, it doesn't run novacom :S Dec 10 07:19:11 it just reports in linux an scsi removable disk (empty), but not the novaterm "device" Dec 10 07:19:14 weird Dec 10 07:19:39 I know, and I created the var/gadget/novacom_enabled file Dec 10 07:20:09 I think it's crapping even before that line in miniboot.sh Dec 10 07:20:27 NuttyBunny: so it never flashes the logo or anything then Dec 10 07:20:42 no, nothing, just static palm Dec 10 07:21:06 let me see if I can modify miniboot.sh to run novacom before everything else :D Dec 10 07:21:25 NuttyBunny: before that even.. Dec 10 07:21:54 try cycling it without losing power for long, either the power on and slide mute switch back and forth or remove battery for a fraction of a second, and Dec 10 07:22:10 boot recovery and novacom get file://klog > log.txt Dec 10 07:22:34 kernel log may be useful Dec 10 07:22:58 mmm... slide mute doesn't work either... grrr Dec 10 07:23:28 you know how? just hold power button down and go back and forth three times and keep holding power down? Dec 10 07:23:50 if doesn't work, kernel may be stuck Dec 10 07:23:56 yep, I've done it before, and it didn't work here Dec 10 07:25:36 if you remove battery so briefly that RAM isn't erased you should be able to get that kernel log Dec 10 07:25:48 timing is tricky Dec 10 07:28:13 it's late here, and it's not charging properly, I'm sure it doesn't charge when it's stuck, so, when I turn it off and on again, it goes to charge for several minutes before booting... Dec 10 07:28:45 ah! but I have my original Pre battery! :D Dec 10 07:28:46 hehehe Dec 10 07:28:51 I can play a bit longer Dec 10 07:28:53 NuttyBunny: it'll charge in bootie mode also Dec 10 07:29:01 recovery Dec 10 07:29:16 at least I think Dec 10 07:29:53 I thought so, but I really thing some file is there, corrupted, not letting it boot or even charge Dec 10 07:30:38 NuttyBunny: I mean hold volume up on start to get recovery mode and I think it would charge there Dec 10 07:30:48 not as fast as normal maybe Dec 10 07:30:58 but yeah swapping batteries with a known good pre is an idea Dec 10 07:31:19 Ah, yes, it does charge there, but maybe not after thar Dec 10 07:31:20 that Dec 10 07:32:13 other than the klog, don't know what else i'd do. oh, you could access the console screen Dec 10 07:32:45 power off device and hold volume up + C and while holding those plug usb back in. it' Dec 10 07:32:50 it's tricky to do Dec 10 07:33:26 yeah, for the emergency boot, I'm there :) Dec 10 07:33:47 the one where you get the scrolling text of kernel boot log? Dec 10 07:34:30 it's volume up and the keyboard key "C" at the same time while plugging in Dec 10 07:34:40 you have to hold volume up and C after that for a few seconds Dec 10 07:35:17 looks like a regular linux boot text screen Dec 10 07:35:30 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! no! I didn't knew of that one! Dec 10 07:35:34 me wanna! :D Dec 10 07:36:14 I use vol up and C on the left hand while plugging in usb with the right hand, you have to kind of use pushing USB in to press the device into your left so you push in the volume button, takes a little practice Dec 10 07:36:39 and you hold vol up + C until you see text Dec 10 07:37:49 I managed to do it on the first try, aaand... it stops just after reading Rsense and Full40, which, in turn are battery parameters Dec 10 07:38:25 interesting Dec 10 07:38:41 that doesn't sound like a good sign.. Dec 10 07:39:16 I'd still doctor anyway Dec 10 07:39:21 but wonder if it will work or not Dec 10 07:39:32 no, I know... before that I read that /media/internal and cryptofs are fine Dec 10 07:39:40 yes, I'm getting a bit worried Dec 10 07:39:49 it may have to do with tokens Dec 10 07:39:58 well, if it doesn't I'll have a nice paperweight :S Dec 10 07:39:58 battery calibration etc Dec 10 07:40:33 NuttyBunny: if it's running this far it will run linux, we just have to figure out what webos's problem is Dec 10 07:40:34 :) Dec 10 07:41:47 anyway I have to go to bed but good luck with the doctor thing, feel free to come back if it's still not working and we can try more interesting surgery Dec 10 07:42:04 I'll check the scripts to see if I can stick novaterm way before everything else, if I don't find anything, I'll doctor it :) Dec 10 07:42:08 thanks for the help! Dec 10 07:42:19 you're welcome Dec 10 07:42:26 (I have to go to bed soon also, but I love hacking) ;) Dec 10 07:42:42 NuttyBunny: you should definitely consider hanging out in webos-internals more :) Dec 10 07:42:54 we do a lot of it here Dec 10 07:43:30 night all Dec 10 07:53:13 all: I just ended up doctoring it :) Now I have to check if it comes unlocked :S see ya Dec 10 08:02:37 nn NuttyBunny-sleep Dec 10 08:12:01 just to report... after the doctor it boots, but only to find it's locked... will meta doctor it, but tomorrow, bye all :) Dec 10 08:12:34 NuttyBunny-sleep, good plan(tm) Dec 10 08:35:10 NuttyBunny-sleep: or you could run this -- http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2051 Dec 10 09:14:53 hi...is it possible to send a shift key event in a normal mojo app to select text without pressing the shift key on the keyboard? Dec 10 13:30:37 *yawn*... omg... what a night... I only slept 5 hours, hi everyone :) Dec 10 13:33:26 I doctored my Dev Pre Plus, touched /var/gadget/novacom_enabled, skipped the first use app, touched the ran_first file, and have it working over wifi. No activation yet. Besides, it's locked :S ... no catalog access, obviously, as it has no profile and I haven't activated it yet... Dec 10 13:33:54 I'm still wondering if I could tunnel my connection somehow to use an american ip address and try to activate that way Dec 10 13:34:37 And, of course, the other thing, I still need to unlock it if I want to use as my main Pre :( Dec 10 13:34:53 NuttyBunny: it does not depend on IP address Dec 10 13:36:08 we believe it depends on the MCC/MNC values of your cellular connection at activation time. we also know that it sends an SMS message back to Palm at activation, the source country of which can easily be determined. Dec 10 13:36:16 rwhitby: Is it possible to activate it over wifi? I mean, the first activation, or using a SIM is the only way to truly activate them? Dec 10 13:36:54 so, I would need to use a cellular connection... Dec 10 13:37:24 you require a first activation over cellular to get app catalog access Dec 10 13:37:46 and it must be in an official country using an official launch partner SIM card Dec 10 13:38:08 if you don't, you're screwed for the life of that comms card Dec 10 13:38:42 the problem is some chat I had with Chuq, he said that Mexico isn't really supporting paid apps, they just opened it when we were using the prerelease doctors, and he doesn't know what would happen if (and when) the 2.0 version comes in... Dec 10 13:39:09 I also don't know if this 1.4.5 device would work with the Mexico app catalog regarding to paid apps... Dec 10 13:39:59 I do not believe Mexico is a supported paid app country. Dec 10 13:40:17 I would advise you activate it in the US with an AT&T carrier sim. Dec 10 13:40:25 The Palm page isn't really clear Dec 10 13:40:43 Palm pages on the subject lie. So do Palm support reps. Dec 10 13:40:52 I know, I just read your posts Dec 10 13:41:00 NuttyBunny: http://twitter.com/webosinternals/status/13217986261286913 Dec 10 13:41:19 that one ;) (and the P|C thread) Dec 10 13:41:23 It has been pointed out to Developer Relations staff, but nothing has been done about it. Dec 10 13:41:31 It is completely unacceptable. Dec 10 13:42:40 I know, but they only have info for devices bought and used on their respective countries, only a handful of the dev staff may really know what happens with the catalog on all the scenarios Dec 10 13:42:48 The simple rule is: To get access to a certain country's app catalog, you need to first activate our device on that coutry's official Palm carrier partner while physically in that country. Dec 10 13:43:35 NuttyBunny: Palm knows exactly what the algorithm is, and that should be published and distributed to all support staff. Dec 10 13:44:07 Damn Telcel... I asked them and I could only get to "the 1.4.5 update is on the standardization area, if they don't release it they must have a reason" (and I think it's because Telcel want their cut of the apps money) Dec 10 13:44:53 btw, the Telcel Pre dropped price, it's now about $350 w/no contract Dec 10 14:22:19 Hi destinal Dec 10 15:34:12 NuttyBunny: hey Dec 10 15:41:08 destinal: I managed to boot the Pre+ by doctoring, bypassed the activation tool editing the lunasysmgr file, and it's now there, running just on wifi. The thing is locked to AT&T :S Dec 10 16:02:04 mmm... looks like Telcel fixed their 3G issues. I'm about to do a public transport 5km trip, let's see if this holds :) Dec 10 16:09:58 No, they didn't, I still cannot roam thoughout the city without losing my connection. this sucks :( Dec 10 17:55:22 holy crap preyourmind is still being hit up for Packages Dec 10 17:55:41 yup Dec 10 17:56:02 I mean... alot Dec 10 17:56:05 yup Dec 10 17:56:14 I just brought up nginx and there has already been three requests in 5 minutes Dec 10 17:56:19 the domain is infested Dec 10 17:56:48 enjoy Dec 10 17:57:29 * halfhalo is tempted to do a redirect :p Dec 10 19:12:24 bhodder...sup? Dec 10 19:12:54 not much you Dec 10 19:13:24 n2m dude you not on gmail.. Dec 10 19:15:05 anyhow...what's the haps today? anything new? Dec 10 19:18:59 Security Challenge Answer Requirements: Dec 10 19:18:59 Must be at least 1 alpha-numeric character and no more than 30 alpha-numeric characters. Dec 10 19:19:00 LOL Dec 10 19:19:02 1 char Dec 10 19:19:29 not a hole lot yet Dec 10 19:54:11 Hi all! I've been wondering, have there been any effort/attenmpt to port ocaml or camllight to webos? Do you think it would be feasible? Dec 10 19:55:35 createsoftware: I haven't heard of anything but there's no reason to think it wouldn't work just like any other language, ie it should be possible to make services or plugins with it but mojo is still javascript-based Dec 10 19:56:51 so you could make services, full screen games, or hybrid apps, and the hybrid apps would be like the current ones, mojo front end, native back end Dec 10 19:57:32 destinal: I see, thanks; but how would you make such things? Dec 10 19:57:41 I mean, I was rather thinking of porting the interpreter Dec 10 19:58:13 In fact, a javascript VM already exists, but it requires the bytecode to have been generated before Dec 10 19:58:13 createsoftware: no need to port, it's already in optware Dec 10 19:58:26 Whereas I was more thinking of an ocaml toplevel Dec 10 19:58:28 but it works on the linux system not in webos gui Dec 10 19:58:38 hi Dec 10 19:58:45 createsoftware: wooo, awesome? Dec 10 19:58:51 woops, awesome!* Dec 10 19:59:07 destinal: Anywhere I can find extra information? Dec 10 19:59:18 createsoftware: if you install optware / ipkg-opt from preware you can get to a command line and run ipkg-opt install ocam Dec 10 19:59:22 ocaml Dec 10 19:59:37 yay! Dec 10 19:59:53 but again, stuff working on the linux side doesn't mean you can interact with the user by itself with it Dec 10 20:00:06 hmmm Dec 10 20:00:20 they can install terminal and run stuff in the terminal Dec 10 20:00:26 Yup =) Dec 10 20:00:38 I'm not planning on actually coding an app in ocaml for webos Dec 10 20:00:50 createsoftware: ah ok then optware has everything you should need Dec 10 20:01:00 that really rocks Dec 10 20:01:03 give me a sec Dec 10 20:01:15 * destinal loves optware Dec 10 20:03:04 * createsoftware does too =) Dec 10 20:03:18 Hmm, phone needs to reboot Dec 10 20:03:33 yeah the optware environment sets up a bindmount for /opt Dec 10 20:03:36 By the way, where can I submit translation fixes for preware? Dec 10 20:03:47 I noticed a few tiny mistakes in the french translation Dec 10 20:03:53 stuff gets installed in /opt to avoid impacting the base system Dec 10 20:05:15 createsoftware: this is the right place, oil and/or rwhitby are probably the best people to talk to about that Dec 10 20:06:40 Cool =) Dec 10 20:09:39 rwhitby, oil: Translation note (French): When the checking device type step takes too long, a message explaining that this shouldn't happen is displayed. The last sentence reads "Vous devriez redémarrer votre téléphone et essayez à nouveau" , whereas it should read (for consistency) "Vous devriez redémarrer votre téléphone et essayer* à nouveau" Dec 10 20:11:58 Guys, guys... I have a question! Rod, you may be the one to answer Dec 10 20:12:57 NuttyBunny: you don't have to ask to ask! :) Dec 10 20:13:00 What would happen if I don't activate the Pre, but I manage to unlock it? I would be able to use as a phone, install apps via preware, and overall "use" it, but with no Palm Profile, and whenever I get to go to the USA, I can activate it? Dec 10 20:13:11 sorry, It just came to my mind :D Dec 10 20:13:28 NuttyBunny: you can't use it as a phone without unlocking the baseband Dec 10 20:13:39 I know Dec 10 20:13:42 you could use it in any other way Dec 10 20:13:49 but suppose I unlock it via nextgenserver Dec 10 20:13:54 (except also no catalog) Dec 10 20:14:21 Would I have phone/3g? (with no catalog) Dec 10 20:14:40 I was just goin to ask if anyone knew how to unlock these things Dec 10 20:14:41 if you unlock the baseband you still don't have to activate or run firstuse Dec 10 20:14:51 Ah, great! Dec 10 20:14:52 so yeah you can use it for phone / data without catalog Dec 10 20:15:21 how do you go about unlockin these pres Dec 10 20:16:01 Excellent, this way I won't bork my catalog. Thanks for the answer, I'll try to unlock it and pass all my apps from my Pre to the Plus, then I'll wait patiently until my work send me to the States ;) Dec 10 20:16:10 Clipper87: some service provides codes I think Dec 10 20:16:23 I don't know how you'd go about doing it yourself without that Dec 10 20:16:33 http://www.nextgenserver.com/index.htm Dec 10 20:16:39 is gmail crawling for anyone else today? Dec 10 20:16:54 Maybe manipulating the tokens we could unlock them... :D Dec 10 20:16:57 PuffTheMagic: Not me :/ Dec 10 20:17:57 PuffTheMagic: Seems ok here also Dec 10 20:18:03 NuttyBunny: no I don't think so, the baseband is a totally separate SoC Dec 10 20:18:35 there may be ways to reprogram it but there seem to be a whole separate set of forums on that topic Dec 10 20:19:33 someone tell me somethin to ge at bestbuy.... im stumped Dec 10 20:19:48 halfhalo: a nook color? Dec 10 20:20:06 lol, no to much and no reason Dec 10 20:20:15 mmmhhh... like we mexicans say: "hueva" (lazyness), I'll just buy the unlock service... with GuyFromNam's code... Dec 10 20:20:23 * NuttyBunny wonders how much will it be Dec 10 20:20:26 under or around 50 sine i have gift card Dec 10 20:21:02 holy mother of... 3650 for 119?!? what are they smoking? Dec 10 20:21:18 NuttyBunny: definitely watch out for activation, I hear you only get one shot in one location and that's where your paidapps (or lack of paid apps) is tied to forever Dec 10 20:21:40 halfhalo: what and where? Dec 10 20:22:05 at best buy and amd video card Dec 10 20:22:21 NuttyBunny: or well forever until you get a new set of comm board tokens Dec 10 20:22:24 ironically, i have a 3650 in my spares Dec 10 20:23:24 NuttyBunny: or maybe it's first use that does it. whichever. I need to trace that conversation with palm.. Dec 10 20:23:28 * halfhalo goes to look at remotes Dec 10 20:23:32 destinal: That's what I'm trying to avoid, I already have it running, and I'll never ever will run the first run app until I get to the States and borrow an AT&T SIM :D Dec 10 20:24:06 destinal: rwhitby says it's whenever you create your first profile on your Pre (first run app for the very first time), after that you're screwed :D Dec 10 20:24:37 NuttyBunny: are there many palm pre's in mexico? Dec 10 20:25:29 I heard about the carrier, Telestra or something, that was carrying them but we don't hear a lot about them Dec 10 20:25:47 destinal: I don't know, Telcel doesn't talk, but I think they sold many to their employees. On the streets I've seen a handful, so, I don't think it sold very well... they used the creepy lady ads Dec 10 20:25:58 omg... 49 for a dtv rf remote.... Dec 10 20:26:09 NuttyBunny: ugh, really brain dead marketing Dec 10 20:26:47 There are two carriers which carry (carried) the Pre, Telcel, the "oficial, palm sponsored", with the GSM one, and Iusacell, CDMA, which brought Sprint pre activated Pres with paid apps and all, but they weren't supported properly either :S Dec 10 20:26:59 so, the Pre did a really bad job over here :( Dec 10 20:27:12 * halfhalo hates bb Dec 10 20:27:50 destinal: Ok, I've installed ipkg-opt =) Dumb question: how do I get to the command line :/ Install Terminal? Dec 10 20:28:07 I always ask about the Pre whenever I go to a Pre store, but the reps don't know a lot about it... even less about 1.4.5 or an eventual Pre 2 release... heck, even Chuq won't tell anything about a 2.0 / Pre 2 release for Telcel :( Dec 10 20:28:36 lol Dec 10 20:28:40 createsoftware: yup install terminal. Life sucked for linux stuff before we got terminal working. speaking of which I need to look at why it's broken in webos 2.0 Dec 10 20:28:59 forgot about that Dec 10 20:29:26 ah terminal... soo many issues.. Dec 10 20:29:41 what was Terminal based on? or was it written from scratch? Dec 10 20:29:52 I've noticed it has a lot of emulation bugs :-( Dec 10 20:29:55 id love to have terminal on pre 2 Dec 10 20:29:56 NuttyBunny: well at least you can always buy an unlocked GSM pre2 direct from HP. (for $250 rather than $450 if you're a developer) Dec 10 20:30:11 destinal: I'm still waiting for my coupon :D Dec 10 20:30:34 gotta go, meal awaits Dec 10 20:30:39 destinal: Ouch, I'm on webos 2 myself :/ Dec 10 20:30:58 createsoftware: :( ok so sooner rather than later, sorry Dec 10 20:31:05 no pb =) Dec 10 20:31:09 * halfhalo is to poor for a pre2 even with dev coupon Dec 10 20:31:12 Anything I can do to help? Dec 10 20:31:42 createsoftware: depends on whether you're good with C and feel like debugging our NPAPI plugin Dec 10 20:32:00 Would it work if I activate my Pre with a AT&T SIM but here in Mexico???? :S I'm in the same building as AT&T here in Mexico, I just learned that, and those guys use GSM phones with data enabled... *sigh* Dec 10 20:32:06 I'm ok with C (I contributed to rockbox a little while ago (only minor stuff though)) Dec 10 20:32:26 But I've never looked to any webos-related stuff Dec 10 20:32:43 chandler: yeah terminal is very buggy. it was based off of the terminal code that mrvc (a former dev here) had made for a previous project and some NPAPI sample code I had hacked to use palm's extensions to the interface Dec 10 20:32:46 And I never heard of the NPAPI plugin :/ Dec 10 20:33:19 bbiab Dec 10 20:34:36 createsoftware: NPAPI plugins are for extending browsers like in this case webkit that Luna the webos GUI is based on, it was the only way we could get raw graphics and keyboard support at the time. Now we could do a full screen SDL app (terminus is actually a start at that) or we could do a hybrid app (my preference) Dec 10 20:34:48 but for the short term I should just fix it like I do every 6 months when webkit changes :) Dec 10 20:35:01 or someone else does often. egaudet last time Dec 10 20:35:15 Lol Dec 10 20:35:53 destinal: kudos to you then =)) Dec 10 20:40:25 createsoftware: translation patches welcome :) Dec 10 20:40:39 oil: Cool; where do I get the files? Dec 10 20:41:04 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=applications/preware.git;a=tree;f=resources;h=c965c7f7ac0b2d996e153d03bfba579371094437;hb=HEAD Dec 10 20:41:14 * halfhalo lols Dec 10 20:41:53 strings.json basically lists english: translated Dec 10 20:41:56 for each Dec 10 20:43:01 yupyup Dec 10 20:43:57 oil: cloning =) Dec 10 20:44:52 * halfhalo is gonna send oil a wirc patch laters today Dec 10 20:45:16 * oil has heard that before, doesn't hold his breath :) Dec 10 20:45:22 with underscore! Dec 10 20:45:34 hey! i sent those that one time! Dec 10 20:46:19 * oil doesn't remember Dec 10 20:46:57 dundundun.... Dec 10 20:47:52 * oil only remembers halfhalo crying, then oil saying "patches welcome :)" Dec 10 20:48:05 lol Dec 10 20:48:24 * halfhalo has innout Dec 10 20:48:27 WIN Dec 10 20:48:34 * oil has bk Dec 10 20:48:41 ha Dec 10 20:58:36 questions: where is the "Wiki Page" string used? Is "Category Default" the default category (that's how it's translated in french) Dec 10 20:59:16 i believe wiki page is in the help scene Dec 10 20:59:26 category default, im not sure Dec 10 20:59:36 what about the " of " string ? Dec 10 20:59:50 is it in like "10k of 200k"? Dec 10 21:00:02 probably Dec 10 21:00:21 * oil didn't do all the setting it up for translation Dec 10 21:01:41 oh, category default is in prefs Dec 10 21:01:47 for the sorting option i think? Dec 10 21:03:49 * halfhalo lied about patch.... he forgot his desk is in disarray for right now Dec 10 21:04:40 * oil was right! haha Dec 10 21:05:02 unless I send you an empty patch.... :p Dec 10 21:05:10 that... Dec 10 21:05:12 doesn't count Dec 10 21:05:14 have you used underscore before? Dec 10 21:05:27 i use hte underscore key all the time Dec 10 21:05:40 underscore.js Dec 10 21:06:36 var underscore = "_";? Dec 10 21:06:41 i love it... its basically prototypes object manipulation stuff like .each on steroids Dec 10 21:06:46 lol Dec 10 21:07:43 instead of forEach you just to _.each(obj,function(value,name){}); Dec 10 21:08:12 or _.map/reduce/jello Dec 10 21:08:33 oil: ok, done :) Where do I submit the patch? Dec 10 21:08:38 gotta go btw Dec 10 21:08:42 um Dec 10 21:08:48 email it to me, and ill get it in there Dec 10 21:08:51 brandonvb@gmail Dec 10 21:09:04 * halfhalo fires up zem spams Dec 10 21:09:15 eh, gmail does a pretty good job at blocking all my spam Dec 10 21:09:50 * halfhalo is betting oil lets stuff related to webos through the filter ans will use that as a way in! Dec 10 21:10:05 * oil "lets" nothing Dec 10 21:10:17 google handles it all Dec 10 21:10:36 bah... wait... thats what I use... Dec 10 21:10:55 * halfhalo has something like 50k emails in all his accounts Dec 10 21:11:08 * oil has 1 account Dec 10 21:11:53 createsoftware: for now you could always novacom or ssh into the pre and install and run ocaml there knowing that eventually there will be a good terminal again :) Dec 10 21:12:03 * halfhalo has one standard gmail, one personal domain, one forum only type stuff domain, one media via another domain, and one school gmail Dec 10 21:13:20 * oil uses + thing for random registrations Dec 10 21:13:48 well, its not so much random registrations as the flood of emails from the forums I frequent Dec 10 21:14:02 * oil uses the unsubscribe link Dec 10 21:14:08 * halfhalo can't Dec 10 21:14:19 which is funny Dec 10 21:14:26 forum moderator Dec 10 21:14:28 when i get random junk snailmail Dec 10 21:14:50 the fact there is no easy way to end it is rediculous Dec 10 21:16:11 * halfhalo doesn't get snailmail Dec 10 21:16:29 * oil gets some bills through the post office Dec 10 21:16:40 * halfhalo doesn't save for one Dec 10 21:16:51 wait... I do get snailspam from google Dec 10 21:17:05 lol Dec 10 21:17:55 * halfhalo is going to make a custom 404 for preyourmind's feeds Dec 10 21:23:40 halfhalo: will preware actually display it? Dec 10 21:24:02 I have no idea... since their 404'ing already Dec 10 21:24:17 * oil doesn't think so Dec 10 21:24:58 halfhalo: you could always make a feed with nothing but a disable this feed app Dec 10 21:25:00 :P Dec 10 21:25:20 keep incrementing date so it shows up at the top Dec 10 21:26:29 halfhalo: how many people hitting that feed are in asia, I wonder Dec 10 21:27:09 destinal: http://pastebin.com/svkybzt3 Dec 10 21:29:11 * oil heads back to work Dec 10 21:40:20 world leaders setting you all up right now to get microchipped by RFID microchips with identity/healthcare/credit information into their new world order why they are folding the economy , their solution to the problem they are causing is the RFID microchip http://www.scribd.com/doc/44997148/The-Mark-of-the-Beast Romans 10:13 all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Dec 10 22:57:15 egaudet: jhojho dtzWill rwhitby: the custom kernel s page on the wiki is really old, like 2009. is it still what people here are using for building the current kernel proejcts or is there better info elsewhere? Dec 10 23:17:24 Hi there, I'm back =) Anyone knows what to do when 'ipkg install ocaml' says package not found? Dec 10 23:17:38 ipkg update doesn't return anything... Dec 10 23:18:29 createsoftware: ipkg-opt install Dec 10 23:18:37 aaaah Dec 10 23:18:39 sorry :/ Dec 10 23:19:07 it's cool, palm uses their own ipkg libraries (two of them, one for the base operating system, and another for apps) Dec 10 23:19:13 so optware uses its own in /opt Dec 10 23:19:31 and the ipkg-opt binary handles all that Dec 10 23:19:35 cool =) Dec 10 23:19:49 yay optware! Dec 10 23:20:00 (I moved from ubuntu to windows, so I didn't have the previous conversation :/) Dec 10 23:20:10 halfhalo: +1 ;) Dec 10 23:20:53 looks like it's working =) (downloading) Dec 10 23:23:29 woops Dec 10 23:23:50 ? Dec 10 23:23:53 I got a ipkg: write: No space left on device Dec 10 23:23:56 message Dec 10 23:24:20 Then "Configuring ocaml Dec 10 23:24:20 , Successfully terminated". Dec 10 23:24:27 But ocaml crashes on load Dec 10 23:24:33 createsoftware: so this may sound like an odd question, but do you happen to have an emulator running? Dec 10 23:24:41 Nope :) Dec 10 23:24:47 Connected to my pre directly Dec 10 23:25:06 how can I see how much space is left? Dec 10 23:25:40 createsoftware: can you first do uname -a and paste the output? Dec 10 23:25:59 Linux roadrunner 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 #1 48 armv7l unknown :) Dec 10 23:26:16 hmm, has anyone installed optware on pre2 yet? rwhitby? Dec 10 23:26:56 createsoftware: do "mount" to see if there's a bind mount for /opt Dec 10 23:27:05 I suspect it's writing to the very small / instead Dec 10 23:27:49 here : http://pastebin.com/mcSgTMcH Dec 10 23:28:17 ah right they changed the stores around Dec 10 23:28:23 for webos 2.0 Dec 10 23:28:41 running ipkg-op install ocaml again returns "nothing to do, already installed" Dec 10 23:28:56 createsoftware: well you shouldn't anyway without space Dec 10 23:29:03 And ocaml complains about one of its core libs missing Dec 10 23:29:11 destinal: ok =) Dec 10 23:29:12 sure, it didn't finish extracting Dec 10 23:29:57 should I mount /opt to somewhere else? Dec 10 23:31:31 createsoftware: and you rebooted after installing, right? Dec 10 23:31:37 I did =) Dec 10 23:31:44 looks like maybe the boot script that handles that doesn't work in 2.0 :( Dec 10 23:31:49 since it's clearly not bind mounted Dec 10 23:31:51 woops Dec 10 23:31:57 how can I do it? Dec 10 23:32:15 let me install optware on my dev pre just to see how it *should* look Dec 10 23:32:23 Is there any log file that I could get that would help? Dec 10 23:32:26 ok =) Dec 10 23:33:26 btw, df returns http://pastebin.com/fpT9vgrX Dec 10 23:39:00 ok looks like /var/opt would normally get bind mounted under /opt, let me find the start script Dec 10 23:39:32 its /etc/event.d/org.webosinternals.optware Dec 10 23:40:10 createsoftware: try Dec 10 23:40:11 start org.webosinternals.optware Dec 10 23:41:09 or just: mount -o bind /var/opt /opt Dec 10 23:41:43 which is the key thing it does besides making directories Dec 10 23:42:08 ok Dec 10 23:43:14 createsoftware: any errors? Dec 10 23:43:20 first command returns http://pastebin.com/xfEdP8wX Dec 10 23:43:25 without problems Dec 10 23:43:32 should I run the second one? Dec 10 23:45:05 createsoftware: run mount again just to be sure Dec 10 23:45:11 just "mount" by itself Dec 10 23:45:15 see if /opt shows up Dec 10 23:45:25 nope Dec 10 23:45:31 ok try mount -o bind /var/opt /opt Dec 10 23:45:56 ok Dec 10 23:46:04 doesn't return anything Dec 10 23:46:11 ok mount | grep opt Dec 10 23:46:36 /dev/mapper/store-var on /opt type ext3 (rw,noatime,data=writeback) Dec 10 23:46:36 /dev/mapper/store-var on /opt type ext3 (rw,noatime,data=writeback) Dec 10 23:47:00 good. looks like it worked, so what went wrong with the script, I wonder Dec 10 23:47:06 dunno Dec 10 23:47:12 should I try install again? Dec 10 23:47:39 not yet Dec 10 23:47:46 ok Dec 10 23:48:39 createsoftware: try this Dec 10 23:48:42 optware works fine on the Pre 2, nothing has changed Dec 10 23:48:48 cat org.webosinternals.optware|tail -12|head -10 Dec 10 23:48:52 err wait Dec 10 23:49:06 cat org.webosinternals.optware|tail -12|head -10 > /tmp/optware Dec 10 23:49:16 destinal: we use the autobuilder Makefiles for building kernels now Dec 10 23:49:47 can't open org.webos(etc) Dec 10 23:49:48 cat /etc/event.d/org.webosinternals.optware|tail -12|head -10 > /tmp/optware if you don't want to have to cd first rather Dec 10 23:49:53 yup Dec 10 23:50:09 done Dec 10 23:50:13 createsoftware: now, sh /tmp/optware Dec 10 23:50:42 Mounting /opt directory: /opt already mounted Dec 10 23:50:51 ok, umount /opt Dec 10 23:50:54 and try again Dec 10 23:51:20 need to figure out why when you manually started the service it didn't mount Dec 10 23:51:44 destinal: his mount entry says that its already mounted correctly Dec 10 23:51:53 rwhitby: because I had him do it by hand Dec 10 23:52:05 Output: "Mounting opt directory :" and that's all Dec 10 23:52:14 createsoftware: mount | grep opt ? Dec 10 23:52:35 /dev/mapper/store-var on /opt type ext3 (rw,noatime,data=writeback) Dec 10 23:52:44 huh, and now it works.. Dec 10 23:52:49 gah Dec 10 23:52:52 strange Dec 10 23:53:05 I must have done something wrong at some point Dec 10 23:53:12 do you think I can install now? Dec 10 23:53:21 I actually have some ideas what might have gone wrong but I really need webos 2.0 Dec 10 23:53:33 createsoftware: ok do this one last thing Dec 10 23:53:39 umount /opt Dec 10 23:53:42 how should I clean up the space that got occupied by the first failed install Dec 10 23:53:44 yup Dec 10 23:53:52 now that /opt is the /opt in rootfs Dec 10 23:53:58 rm -rf /opt; mkdir /opt Dec 10 23:54:21 I'm trusting you there ;) Dec 10 23:54:30 ok Dec 10 23:54:37 done Dec 10 23:54:46 I didn't see in the backlog how optware was initially installed Dec 10 23:54:56 createsoftware: mount -o bind /var/opt /opt Dec 10 23:55:00 rwhitby: preware Dec 10 23:55:03 script again? Dec 10 23:55:06 versions? Dec 10 23:55:19 (of everything, including what installed Preware) Dec 10 23:55:33 done Dec 10 23:55:36 versions: Dec 10 23:56:01 WebOS Quick install 3.14 Dec 10 23:56:19 on a Pre 2 ? Dec 10 23:56:22 preware 1.4.5 Dec 10 23:56:32 rwhitby: yup Dec 10 23:56:45 following what they said on a forum Dec 10 23:56:51 I wasn't aware that Jason had qualified WOSQI for webOS 2.0 yet. Dec 10 23:57:01 says error when installing, but installs fine anyway =) Dec 10 23:57:14 at least preware runs flawlessly Dec 10 23:57:22 destinal: Install? Dec 10 23:57:38 (It's about 1AM here in France :/) Dec 10 23:57:43 createsoftware: well I think you should now be ok except I don't know how much of otpware you actually have installed Dec 10 23:57:49 I would remove it with preware and reinstall it there Dec 10 23:58:00 oh? Dec 10 23:58:17 so I'd remove optware, then reinstall it? Dec 10 23:58:22 createsoftware: since some files weren't written right when disk was full before Dec 10 23:58:28 I woudn't have trusted that /opt Dec 10 23:58:30 Hi! Dec 10 23:58:31 But that was ocaml files Dec 10 23:58:42 but yeah remove optware stuff in preware Dec 10 23:58:44 reinstall it Dec 10 23:58:57 I don't understand why openssh isn't in the standard ipkg list (I mean from command line) but is present in Preware. Is that because of the packages source lists? Dec 10 23:59:03 createsoftware: did you reboot the device after installing Preware with the WOSQI that gave an error? Dec 10 23:59:13 rwhitby: yup Dec 10 23:59:20 v0n: there are 2 or 3 different ipkg databases on a webOS device Dec 10 23:59:37 destinal: And then, reboot, mount by hand as you pointed me, and install ocaml ? Dec 10 23:59:43 one in / (which you should never use), one in /media/cryptofs/apps (which Preware uses) and one in /opt (which ipkg-opt uses) Dec 11 00:00:14 createsoftware: I'd try that, hopefully mount will tell you it's already mounted but it's good to make sure since you had that issue Dec 11 00:00:24 ok Dec 11 00:00:26 I'd actually make sure it's still mounted after removing Dec 11 00:00:28 optware Dec 11 00:00:39 err after installing it again Dec 11 00:00:53 And that will clean up the leftover ocaml files? Dec 11 00:01:04 createsoftware: those should be cleaned up already Dec 11 00:01:12 awesome Dec 11 00:01:28 I still have some progress to make then in terms of linux command line =) Dec 11 00:01:35 rwhitby, Aren't the packages source list on the web? Dec 11 00:01:35 Thanks for your help then! Dec 11 00:01:46 destinal: I'm going to bed right now Dec 11 00:01:50 createsoftware: yeah, it's really weird you had issues ,optware's normally only a few clicks to get working Dec 11 00:02:06 createsoftware: something odd involved somewhere Dec 11 00:02:16 No problems at all, it's pretty cool to learn Dec 11 00:02:31 Only thing I'm sorry about is if I did something wrong and wasted your time :/ Dec 11 00:02:43 Thanks for your awesome help anyway =)) Dec 11 00:02:44 createsoftware: I still wonder about webosQI for 2.0 Dec 11 00:02:51 createsoftware: you're welcome Dec 11 00:03:13 Are you usually on this channel so I can bother you again if I have other problems? Dec 11 00:03:22 v0n: yes, at ipkg.preware.org Dec 11 00:03:24 with optware I mean Dec 11 00:03:49 createsoftware: yeah, most of us Dec 11 00:04:19 awesome Dec 11 00:04:26 createsoftware: it varies based on time though we have people all over the world Dec 11 00:04:28 updated ubuntu packages on dell machine and now X is broken :/ Dec 11 00:04:48 rwhitby, ok, So I should tell ipkg to use this one if I want to install packages from command line. Dec 11 00:04:50 destinal: perfect then Dec 11 00:04:57 See you, thanks again :) Dec 11 00:05:17 createsoftware: night Dec 11 00:05:23 ;) Dec 11 00:05:24 But there's still something weird, I don't have the ipkg-opt command on my device. Any idea? Dec 11 00:07:45 v0n: what information sources have you researched about this so far? Dec 11 00:08:33 v0n: use Preware to install packages from ipkg.preware.org Dec 11 00:08:48 v0n: use ipkg-opt (which you can install from Preware) to install packages from optware Dec 11 00:09:20 unless you know all about post-install scripts and IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT, do not stray from that. Dec 11 00:11:33 ipkg-opt is called the Optware Advanced Linux Command Line Installer in Preware Dec 11 00:13:35 rwhitby, ok, thanks. Dec 11 00:15:48 I have an error when updating ipkg-opt: "Downloading http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/pixi/cross/unstable/Packages.gz Dec 11 00:15:48 wget: server returned error: HTTP/1.0 404 Not Found Dec 11 00:15:48 An error ocurred, return value: 1." Dec 11 00:16:14 (just for information) Dec 11 00:16:47 thats because there is no pixi optware feed Dec 11 00:17:02 v0n: thanks, that's a known issue, and I'll work out how to fix it. Dec 11 00:18:00 Ok. Dec 11 00:19:26 Everything I'm doing here is to fine a way to get bluetooth support on my device in order to write a very simple app that receives and displays a message sent from another bluetooth device. Dec 11 00:19:46 Do you think that's possible or I should use another mobile plateform? :( Dec 11 00:19:54 v0n: you want to get webOS 2.0 and use the Bluetooth SPP support Dec 11 00:20:45 It's not possible with earlier versions because Palm has their own proprietary BT stack on the device and there's no way to get at an SPP profile before webOS 2.0 Dec 11 00:21:19 Nor OBEX or HID or anything else other than audio/headset profiles Dec 11 00:21:41 erf, ok Dec 11 00:21:50 thanks for that. Dec 11 00:22:34 If you're looking for a normal BlueZ stack, webOS is not the solution you're looking for. Dec 11 00:22:52 My Pixi is still using 1.4.5... Btw, an idea about when will be available the webOS 2.0 update for 1.4.5 devices? Dec 11 00:23:01 rwhitby, ok. Dec 11 00:23:21 v0n: Palm has said "in the coming months" for a number of previous months. Dec 11 00:23:35 :(:( ok Dec 11 00:23:53 So, with a 2.0 device I'll be able to write this app? Dec 11 00:25:56 and the 2.0 SDK is still not available to download so I won't be able to do it... :( Dec 11 00:27:19 you could ask to be added to the 2.0 sdk list. Dec 11 00:29:35 rick-home, Ok. Dec 11 00:31:11 But I'm thinking, if I use IP over Bluetooth on the other device, I should be able to make them communicate though my webOS device has an IP address... Dec 11 00:35:58 yep Dec 11 00:36:02 that you can do in 145 Dec 11 00:36:10 i definitely wish palm would hurry up at this point Dec 11 00:36:28 im on my second pre and this one has scratched glass and a broken power button now haha Dec 11 00:36:33 gah ubuntu drives me up a damn wall Dec 11 00:36:56 lol egaudet Dec 11 00:36:56 if they dont release something soon im just going to defect and buy an android unfortunately even though the OS isnt nearly as nice Dec 11 00:37:04 * halfhalo uses windows for that :p Dec 11 00:37:36 the pre2 has that "gorilla glass" screen instead of plastic, ought to be MUCH tougher... Dec 11 00:37:42 yea Dec 11 00:37:45 im trying to hold out Dec 11 00:37:49 but my pre might not :( Dec 11 00:38:02 hmm how plentiful is the used pre market? Dec 11 00:38:12 especially in a CDMA market Dec 11 00:38:15 kind of screwed Dec 11 00:39:06 i will definitely miss having 8 cards open at once and having a touchstone at work and home :( Dec 11 00:41:01 Do you know what does "rmnet0" mean? (from ifconfig, just for info) Dec 11 00:43:26 There's a nice set of news in the early access forums :) Dec 11 00:46:27 ALready leeching :D Dec 11 00:46:35 Do we have to uninstall previous versions first? Dec 11 00:46:50 (not that I've still successfully even run any variant of the 2.x emu :( ) Dec 11 00:49:26 whats wrong with the emu? Dec 11 00:49:44 See my post in the EA forums Dec 11 00:49:45 ive run at least 2 different versions of the emu Dec 11 00:49:56 windows? Dec 11 00:50:02 yup Dec 11 00:50:04 x64 Dec 11 00:50:05 doh :( Dec 11 00:50:14 i dont use windows... anywhere Dec 11 00:51:05 yeah, never had an issue previously... but GOD I'm really starting to hate VB :/ Dec 11 00:51:22 it's acting rather stupid lately... including totally mangling a VM just because I took a snapshot Dec 11 00:51:28 i use to have lots of issues with windows and then i finally gave up on them Dec 11 00:51:49 never been happier since i dropped them like a deuce about 6 years ago or so Dec 11 00:51:52 ;) Dec 11 00:52:31 I use a bunch of diff things.. and would highly suspect having these same issues if the host were Linux or other Dec 11 00:52:35 its app issues. Dec 11 00:52:48 i VM windows... on a linux host sometimes if im forced to use crapware like sharepoop Dec 11 00:53:09 And the error I'm getting with 2.x is definately a VB error :( Dec 11 00:54:03 ya i dont doubt its virtualbox probably causing the error but i just have never seen any problems with the linux version Dec 11 00:54:24 I suspect stupid Windows UAC issues. Dec 11 00:54:30 the worst problem i have with the linux version is sometimes xp guest tools crap out or virtualbox floods dbus and i have to restart it Dec 11 00:54:55 linux guests on linux hosts are flawless though Dec 11 00:56:33 i wonder if you can run vm's in amazon's ec2 cloud Dec 11 00:57:26 im guessing not but that would be an easy way to fool with the SDK without running it locally Dec 11 00:57:35 heh Dec 11 01:12:20 hey all - Dec 11 01:12:30 Well, well, I managed to unlock my Pre Plus with nextgenserver, and I didn't even need to activate it (unlike the instructions, that said I must activate it first) Dec 11 01:12:47 I'm not very computer savy - I can't seem to figure out how to tther my Palm to my computer via Blue Tooth... Dec 11 01:13:13 Palm Pre Plus... Dec 11 01:14:03 Pre Plus? Verizon? Dec 11 01:14:31 Yes and Yes Dec 11 01:15:03 i live in the middle of nowhere and I use my Palm for internet due to no available hardline internet and satellite is cost prohiobitiuve Dec 11 01:15:15 Does it has to be Bluetooth? :) You could use wifi Dec 11 01:15:45 Or you may use mytether, it supports cable and wifi Dec 11 01:16:08 I read somewhere of someone using bluetooth, but I didn't try it Dec 11 01:17:35 o.k. mytether has never worked via cable either... Dec 11 01:18:01 weird, it works really fine on my machine, both cable and wifi Dec 11 01:18:22 when you connect the cable to your Pre, do you get an ip address? Dec 11 01:18:37 if you're on Verizon, why do you need to bother with this? isn't the "mobile hotspot" still free? Dec 11 01:19:18 you can even charge (to some extent) using the wifi hotspot and connecting the usb cable to your machine Dec 11 01:19:20 Nothing comes up - do you think since my computer is a dead zone that the palm isn't getting any service so tether isn't working? Dec 11 01:19:39 Hotspot is up to 5 GB a month Dec 11 01:19:53 I'm averaging 7.6 a month Dec 11 01:20:05 and your standard data plan, how much does it cover? Dec 11 01:20:09 so that's an extra $30 I want to stop paying Dec 11 01:20:18 standard data is unlimited Dec 11 01:20:31 ah, right Dec 11 01:20:33 hm, extra $30? I'm not getting charged for the hotspot plan Dec 11 01:20:33 so i want to stop using mobile Wifi Dec 11 01:20:44 it's "unlimited", but I think somewhere in the fine print they say it's not really unlimited Dec 11 01:20:57 no - anything over 5 GB is either a per MB charge or you can sign up for a $10 per GB plan Dec 11 01:21:11 I'd use mytether, search for the latest one, and connect via cable, do you have the usbnet drivers installed on your machine? Dec 11 01:21:19 you need at least windows xp sp3 Dec 11 01:22:18 I have exactly that - windows XP SP3 Dec 11 01:22:44 usbnet - is that available at the preware.org site? Dec 11 01:24:34 seriously I'm no good with computers... lol Dec 11 01:26:28 let's see..., when you run mytether, and enable usb mode, and enable "usbnet" on your Pre, and enable dhcp (it enables everything), you should get a window asking for new drivers Dec 11 01:27:12 On the mytether page says: The report is that after you enable USB Tethering in My Tether, you can pair your machine to the Pre using Bluetooth PAN and tethering will work over Bluetooth. Dec 11 01:27:12 I will have to disconnect from the net - go grab my pre from outside and try it.. lol Dec 11 01:27:25 hehehe Dec 11 01:27:26 wait Dec 11 01:27:30 first download a file Dec 11 01:27:56 http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/usbnet-pre/blobs/raw/master/windows/usbnet-pre.inf Dec 11 01:27:59 NuttyBunny - can you send me the link to what you are reading - does it have a step by step thing? Dec 11 01:28:06 DLing now Dec 11 01:28:21 It comes from my memory and several pages Dec 11 01:28:31 lol o.k. Dec 11 01:28:38 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/USBnet_networking_setup#toc2 Dec 11 01:28:57 That's for the driver. If you have mytether, and that page, you should be ok Dec 11 01:29:43 sweet thanks.. Dec 11 01:29:55 o.k. so second stupid question Dec 11 01:30:11 there are no stupid questions Dec 11 01:30:12 how do I find a channel to ask a question about electronics?? Dec 11 01:30:39 I have a cell phone repeater amplifier for cars - powered by 12 volt 1.5 amp car plug.. Dec 11 01:30:40 you could download the entire channel list ;) or try something like #electronics Dec 11 01:30:53 I want to run it from my AC here at the house so I can bring the Palm INSIDE... Dec 11 01:31:52 I dunno where the channel list is.. lol I get here from the preware.org website Dec 11 01:32:11 no, no, IRC is an entirely separate network Dec 11 01:32:50 * halfhalo lulz Dec 11 01:33:26 o.k. like IRC is the I-95 beltway - can't get on it from regular roads.. need to be on the interstate already? Dec 11 01:34:17 mmm... could be :) From the program that you're using, it should have a "channel list" option somewhere Dec 11 01:34:56 I'm on internet explorer... and I clicked the webchat.freenode.net link on the preware.org webpage Dec 11 01:35:04 :-D Dec 11 01:35:14 you're lucky I even knew that much Dec 11 01:41:41 #electronics Dec 11 01:41:45 hmm Dec 11 01:41:47 type: Dec 11 01:41:52 /join #electronics Dec 11 01:42:00 lol mmk Dec 11 01:43:09 Hey NuttyBunny-web Dec 11 01:43:16 Hey NuttyBunny :D Dec 11 01:43:24 bah, nobody likes him :p Dec 11 01:43:42 hehehe Dec 11 01:44:26 NuttyBunny: btw, on most clients you can do something like: Dec 11 01:44:30 /say /join #test Dec 11 01:44:38 to avoid having to put a space in front of the slash :-) Dec 11 01:44:48 /join #electronics Dec 11 01:45:13 sorry, it's been a while since I was a IRC regular :) Dec 11 01:51:37 Gotta go guys, friday, night, at work? Not good! Dec 11 01:52:11 ugh this is so frustrating! Dec 11 02:00:52 lingfish: maube you should put a comma in it.. Dec 11 02:01:11 huh?! Dec 11 02:01:24 lingfish: idk, just trying to cheer you up.. Dec 11 02:01:37 lol.. k Dec 11 02:18:08 lemketron: hope you guys did a patent on the new emulator feature Dec 11 02:21:10 does the ios emulator do pinch zooming in a similar way ? Dec 11 02:22:49 * rwhitby has never touched an iOS emulator Dec 11 02:22:59 just like Ruby ... Dec 11 02:23:20 IOS I've only played with on Cisco Routers. Dec 11 02:23:40 keep your friends close and your enemies closer Dec 11 02:24:36 I don't know if other simulators support it or not. Dec 11 02:25:05 I know it's still early (6:24pm) but I'm actually going to take off and have dinner with my family for a change. :-) Dec 11 02:25:51 enjoy Dec 11 02:26:01 enjoy Dec 11 02:28:53 have a good weekend, all. would love some feedback on the multi-touch support. PM/DM/email me... Dec 11 02:29:07 (or post here and I'll try to catch it on Monday) Dec 11 02:30:20 kk...thanks for the new toys. Dec 11 02:30:27 rwhitby: new emulator feature? Dec 11 02:30:46 * halfhalo goes to try new emu stuff Dec 11 02:31:04 destinal: "multi touch support" Dec 11 02:31:54 destinal: can't say anything about it here more than lemketron has already said, since it's early access Dec 11 02:32:04 ah Dec 11 02:32:24 actually, thats a lie. I'm going to go get the umbrella out of the pool, THEN see what all the hubbub is about Dec 11 02:33:45 and THEN send oil thst patch Dec 11 02:43:38 Anyone else using the x64 installer? Dec 11 02:43:43 on win? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Dec 11 02:59:57 2010