**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Dec 19 02:59:57 2010
Dec 19 03:00:46 <Tman> i don't know what the deal is...
Dec 19 03:04:48 <Tman> aha
Dec 19 03:05:04 <Tman> conclusion: webOS crashes when you have a plugin that doesn't register any handlers
Dec 19 03:30:40 <cdm> not as many people here as there used to be...
Dec 19 03:35:24 <Loudergood> one more now that you're here ;)
Dec 19 03:38:15 <rwhitby> hey cdm
Dec 19 03:38:43 <cdm> hey rwhitby -- how's life hacking palm stuff?
Dec 19 03:39:12 <rwhitby> cdm: it continues not to pay the bills :)
Dec 19 03:39:26 <cdm> hahaha
Dec 19 03:39:31 <cdm> hopefully something does!
Dec 19 03:39:40 <rwhitby> cdm: has that new thing all you guys are working on been released yet?
Dec 19 03:39:42 <cdm> has anyone ported android to pre yet?
Dec 19 03:39:54 <cdm> rwhitby: you know I left right?
Dec 19 03:39:58 <cdm> back in the summer
Dec 19 03:40:01 <cdm> didn't make the 'news'
Dec 19 03:40:12 <rwhitby> cdm: yep, at aleph with the rest?
Dec 19 03:40:17 <cdm> yeah -- Jawbone
Dec 19 03:40:31 <cdm> you won't see the stuff the folks came to do until near the end of 2011.
Dec 19 03:40:48 <cdm> althought you wil start to see the reasons they showed up -- like JAMBOX.
Dec 19 03:41:51 <rwhitby> cdm: at least the palm hacking got me a trip to NYC :)
Dec 19 03:42:04 <cdm> yeah, i saw that was the case.  Congrats.
Dec 19 03:42:05 <cdm> and a pre2?
Dec 19 03:43:03 <rwhitby> yeah, and the community got a bunch of us some of them
Dec 19 03:44:06 <cdm> I like the speed, don't like the flat glass.
Dec 19 03:46:33 * oil agrees
Dec 19 03:46:52 <rwhitby> I like the glass
Dec 19 03:47:44 <destinal> cdm: android on a pre2 could be pretty decent.  I wish android were based on anything like unix though
Dec 19 03:48:43 <destinal> cdm: long time no see...
Dec 19 04:24:26 <cdm> destinal: how do you mean it isn't based on anything like UNIX?
Dec 19 04:24:34 <cdm> destinal: it's totally based on UNIX
Dec 19 04:25:07 <rwhitby> destinal: you left out the "GNU/LI"
Dec 19 04:25:32 <cdm> it's not glibc based, etc, etc
Dec 19 04:25:39 <cdm> but it's libc is BSD based and very UNIXy
Dec 19 04:26:17 <cdm> and what's really nice with the Nexus S is that you can build the whole thing from source and re-install.
Dec 19 04:26:49 <destinal> cdm: fair but there's not much in the userland that's standard so you basically have to rebuild the whole thing to change how it operates
Dec 19 04:28:18 <cdm> what's standard?  Since they don't use X nothing is standard.
Dec 19 04:28:21 <cdm> webOS is pretty much the same
Dec 19 04:28:32 <cdm> heck, I wish we had thrown away more of the crap we took from opensource
Dec 19 04:28:43 <cdm> upstart would have been the first to die if I did it again
Dec 19 04:29:14 <cdm> and once upstart was gone, everything else was pretty much Palm specific.
Dec 19 04:29:31 <cdm> 2nd to die would be pulse audio
Dec 19 04:29:32 <destinal> cdm: it's really a shame that bootie and novacom weren't open-sourced, I haven't seen anything out there that has the same featureset for embedded stuff.
Dec 19 04:29:52 <cdm> destinal: bootie is based on lk which is very much open sourced
Dec 19 04:29:59 <cdm> and is the basis of the android bootloader too.  :)
Dec 19 04:30:06 <cdm> small world, embedded in silicon valley
Dec 19 04:30:14 <destinal> cdm: heh, now *that* I didn't know
Dec 19 04:30:27 <cdm> geist wrote 'em both
Dec 19 04:30:39 <cdm> he also wrote the iBoot for iOS
Dec 19 04:30:41 <geist> hrm?
Dec 19 04:30:44 <cdm> like I said, small world
Dec 19 04:30:45 <cdm> :)
Dec 19 04:30:47 <geist> oh hewwo
Dec 19 04:31:37 <geist> yeah, just talking to $androidguy on another channel about lk hackery
Dec 19 04:31:44 <destinal> geist: I've been learning u-boot and frequently find myself wishing it had things bootie does.  (or spoke something like novacom)
Dec 19 04:32:00 <geist> yep, i wish we had been able to open sauce it
Dec 19 04:32:09 <halfhalo> mmm.... sauce
Dec 19 04:32:10 <geist> since i'll have to just write it all over again
Dec 19 04:32:26 <geist> and after 3 or 4 times it starts to get a little old
Dec 19 04:34:59 <destinal> geist: what to people even *do* in u-boot for a boot mem type effect,  upload uImages with kermit over usbtty ?
Dec 19 04:35:18 <geist> heh. i dont know what they do for usb
Dec 19 04:35:25 <geist> jtag and memboot?
Dec 19 04:35:38 <geist> or if it has ethernet uboot has a lot of tftp and whatnot hackery
Dec 19 04:35:48 <geist> i've found it to be pretty usable on a board with ethernet
Dec 19 04:36:06 <geist> i dont mind using u-boot as much per se, but i *hate* hacking on it
Dec 19 04:36:28 <geist> it's a total mess. had some core design at some point, but it's been blown away with years of people piling cruft on
Dec 19 04:36:55 <destinal> geist: hmm if it has usb cdc ether also maybe tftp.  I'm on a board with only a usb port so it's either usb stuff or use the PMIC to connect a UART to the USB pins instead
Dec 19 04:37:06 <geist> or sd
Dec 19 04:37:15 <destinal> yeah
Dec 19 04:37:21 <geist> when i was hacking on my beagleboard some i had to keep swapping sd cards
Dec 19 04:37:36 <geist> most of the other boards i've used uboot on had ethernet so it's less of a big deal
Dec 19 04:37:46 <geist> now, trying to ship a product is a completely different thing
Dec 19 04:37:53 <geist> i dont know how one goes about shipping with uboot
Dec 19 04:38:31 <destinal> geist: nookcolor did (android 2.1 based device, omap3621, x-loader and u-boot stock)
Dec 19 04:39:02 <geist> ah. most of the other android devices use a vendor-supplied bootloader
Dec 19 04:39:29 <geist> which is why Android the company doesn't really push it too much. they have a lk based reference design, but no one has ever shipped with it
Dec 19 04:42:34 <MrWhite> hello I need some help is anyone here?
Dec 19 04:42:44 <destinal> MrWhite: no.  nobody is here.
Dec 19 04:43:27 <Tibfib> everyone died
Dec 19 04:43:34 <cdm> I totally wish we had open sourced both bootie and novacom
Dec 19 04:43:43 <cdm> would save me a lot of effort in the future. :)
Dec 19 04:44:21 <MrWhite> lol. Sorry. I dont know if this is the right chan. But I have a palm pre 100eww and i have PreWare installed. But ive noticed that today during a reboot my notification ringer volume is increadibly loud. So loud that it distorts the speaker and anything played through it. Is there anyway I can turn it back down?
Dec 19 04:45:10 <destinal> MrWhite: I assume the volume button doesn't help?
Dec 19 04:46:10 <MrWhite> Well thats the thing. Before When I had the volume turned all the way up it was at a perfect level per say. It didnt distort anything and it sure wasnt loud enough to make the slide rattle.
Dec 19 04:46:41 <MrWhite> its as if the audio levels have spiked up.... Dramatically.
Dec 19 04:46:45 <destinal> cdm: yeah, bootie/novacom would find uses all over the place and it wouldn't hurt palm competitively  (I don't see a bootloader as what one would consider a competitive advantage)
Dec 19 04:47:13 <cdm> nope
Dec 19 04:47:19 <destinal> if anything, they'd benefit from other people improving / fixing things
Dec 19 04:47:32 <cdm> but they didn't want me to leave with giest and use it.
Dec 19 04:47:37 <rwhitby> decisions not to open source are never about competitiveness, they are always about lack of financial incentive
Dec 19 04:47:44 <cdm> so instead they got me to leave with giest and do something else...
Dec 19 04:47:58 <destinal> cdm: heh
Dec 19 05:08:19 <geist> hah
Dec 19 05:10:28 <destinal> geist: well, maybe someday, one of the many times you reimplement this stuff you'll manage an open release.  I'd love to use stuff for this embedded linux hacking that isn't a mishmash of seemingly random parts, so here's hoping.
Dec 19 05:10:56 <geist> maybe. i'm kind of meh on hacking linux at the moment
Dec 19 05:24:56 <xbonesx> what's the lowest someone has ran the uberkernels 1ghz voltage at?
Dec 19 05:31:44 <xbonesx> what's the lowest someone has ran the uberkernels 1ghz voltage at?
Dec 19 05:39:59 <xbonesx> no takers?
Dec 19 05:41:29 <geist> apparently not
Dec 19 05:41:40 <xbonesx> lol
Dec 19 05:45:48 <xbonesx> if you choose a voltage that is lower than the device can handle does it kick back up or shut the device off?
Dec 19 17:53:39 <tos9> Hey there. Is there anything in preware / available to remove search engines?
Dec 19 17:53:56 <tos9> (in find)
Dec 19 18:49:40 <xbonesx> what's the lowest voltage anyone has ran the 1ghz kernel?
Dec 19 18:50:59 <bones> still here lol
Dec 19 18:56:48 <rick-nook> tos9 not yet
Dec 19 19:55:19 <rick-no85> adora
Dec 19 19:58:00 * scoutcamper wishes for a dscussion :D
Dec 19 19:58:05 <scoutcamper> pick a topic
Dec 19 19:59:23 <SineOt> webkit > gecko
Dec 19 20:01:57 <scoutcamper> umm, how about, visual basic SUCKS!!!!!
Dec 19 20:02:36 <SineOt> That works too.
Dec 19 20:34:18 <roxfan> scoutcamper: you should choose something controversial, not something that everyone agrees with :)
Dec 19 20:34:39 <SineOt> hence my recommendation of webkit > gecko ;o
Dec 20 00:50:57 <sanaking> hola
Dec 20 00:52:06 <sanaking> having trouble with preware, it has started this new bgehavior of downloading a package, and then just sitting there
Dec 20 00:52:44 <sanaking> fresh doctor+install of everything to latest
Dec 20 00:54:18 <SineOt> what version of preware? 1.5?
Dec 20 00:55:38 <sanaking> and it seems like the back gesture doesn't stop preware from trying to download something..
Dec 20 00:55:50 <sanaking> yuppers!
Dec 20 00:55:58 <SineOt> weird
Dec 20 00:57:12 <scoutcamper> can oil or rwhitby comment?
Dec 20 00:57:51 <Loudergood> overclocking?
Dec 20 00:57:59 <sanaking> nope
Dec 20 00:58:18 <rwhitby> scoutcamper: since we don't know what device, what OS version, what Preware version, how it was installed, what feeds are enabled, I doubt we can.
Dec 20 00:59:50 <sanaking> it was all working fine my last doctor though, so .. hrmm dunno whatever could be the diff, same device, OS, preware ver, testing feeds enabled (per metadoctor)
Dec 20 01:00:09 <sanaking> funny thing is that preware didn't even install post-doctor this time either (with the metadoctor optin enabled) nor increase in /var
Dec 20 01:06:28 <sanaking> vzPre+ and I mentioned PreWare 1.5.0 (latest everything downloaded today) already
Dec 20 01:08:43 <Loudergood> 1.4.5?
Dec 20 01:12:01 <sanaking> palm-install
Dec 20 01:13:52 <sanaking> funny thing is I don't have internet on my computer, only my phone now! so doing this from there.. :)
Dec 20 01:14:19 <Loudergood> using wirc?
Dec 20 01:14:40 <sanaking> weird i told luna to delete preware but icon's still there..
Dec 20 01:14:41 <sanaking> BitchX
Dec 20 01:14:42 <sanaking> !
Dec 20 01:19:00 <sanaking> oh ok app catalog seems to be sitting on the 'installing' phase, so something musta broken somewhere with pkgs, hmm..
Dec 20 01:19:43 <RMind> I wonder why no one has made a mythtv remote for webos
Dec 20 01:22:16 <SineOt> pretty sure there is one RMind
Dec 20 01:23:49 <sanaking> there are so many remotes! I can't remember mythtv in particular
Dec 20 01:24:04 <SineOt> I'm making a really nice Boxee/XBMC one P:
Dec 20 01:24:25 <RMind> I saw one for sagetv
Dec 20 01:24:52 <sanaking> I think maybe my pkgs db is broken.. app catalog won't install, luna won't delete.. oh but ipkg-opt works
Dec 20 01:25:08 <sanaking> RMind: code.google.com/p/webmyth/ ?
Dec 20 01:25:40 <SineOt> Oh, huh
Dec 20 01:26:04 <SineOt> my boxee remote is sweet though ;3
Dec 20 01:26:21 <sanaking> I need a Dish Network app.. why only DirecTV!
Dec 20 01:27:26 <sanaking> I don't see an option to signout of my palm profile
Dec 20 01:29:14 <RMind> sanaking, ah. it's not in preware or the app catalog so I never found it
Dec 20 01:29:34 <sanaking> i use this thing called google sometimes.. ;^)
Dec 20 01:30:16 <sanaking> there are a couple of things not in either, like prefox.. there are several apps i have to sideload
Dec 20 01:30:35 <RMind> I never think to do a web search for some reason.  I just expect things to be in feeds
Dec 20 01:30:46 <sanaking> would be nice!
Dec 20 01:30:50 <RMind> I tried prefox... it hurt
Dec 20 01:30:53 <sanaking> haha
Dec 20 01:31:18 <RMind> I want it to improve, but at the moment it hurts to use
Dec 20 01:31:19 <SineOt> why you'd port Gecko to webOS I don't know
Dec 20 01:31:21 <sanaking> i think its hard to really try prefox, what with all the crashing!
Dec 20 01:31:26 <SineOt> webkit > gecko, really
Dec 20 01:31:55 <sanaking> i just need a second browser on the pre, but also need it to be stable... ;^)
Dec 20 01:33:11 <destinal> running a browser in a browser always kind of struck me as funny
Dec 20 01:33:42 <sanaking> ugh
Dec 20 01:33:50 <sanaking> destinal: prefox isn't running in a browser
Dec 20 01:34:28 <destinal> sanaking: everything in webos runs in a browser.  it's called webkit and lunasysmgr links to it
Dec 20 01:34:54 <sanaking> it's a PDK app, it runs straight on the canvas, writing directly to the fb
Dec 20 01:35:18 <sanaking> afaik
Dec 20 01:35:22 <destinal> ok, for pure type game PDK apps that's true, it's only launched by the browser
Dec 20 01:35:51 <sanaking> regardless, by your argument having a web browser app at all would be pointless
Dec 20 01:35:56 <sanaking> ;^)
Dec 20 01:36:14 <destinal> sanaking: actually luna has a webkit plugin for its browser so it's already doing browser in browser
Dec 20 01:36:17 <destinal> it's just.. odd.
Dec 20 01:36:31 <sanaking> very kinky
Dec 20 01:37:30 <sanaking> damn i don't want to doctor again (3rd time in 2 days?)
Dec 20 01:37:47 <sanaking> i wonder if the existence of doctors makes the cmty less willing to figure out problems when they arise
Dec 20 01:38:48 <destinal> sanaking: uh,  you've got something strange going on, I go months between usually
Dec 20 01:39:10 <destinal> and most people probably a lot longer than that
Dec 20 01:39:44 <sanaking> you're tellin me!
Dec 20 01:40:09 <destinal> sanaking: what are you doing to that device?
Dec 20 01:40:12 <sanaking> but things keep breaking.. i have this theory that i have a virus that negatively affects technology
Dec 20 01:40:39 <sanaking> destinal: the first one was probably my fault (I filled all the partitions.. maybe i did that again yesterday act for the 2nd time)
Dec 20 01:41:33 <sanaking> this time though.. i don't know. i did ^C a palm-install that was taking too long ..
Dec 20 01:42:07 <sanaking> damn I keep wanting to use my internet, but it doesn't work! gah
Dec 20 01:42:58 <sanaking> RMind: will be curious to hear how you find that myth app. (I'm actually wondering if it's a sideloader because it's pre-beta)
Dec 20 01:44:25 <sanaking> before I redoctor again I'm curious why INCREASE_VAR_SPACE didn't work tho, hrmm..
Dec 20 01:45:48 <scoutcamper> sanaking, what version of webos?
Dec 20 01:45:54 <scoutcamper> what versaion of windows?
Dec 20 01:46:11 <sanaking> what are these windows you speak of?
Dec 20 01:46:14 <RMind> sanaking, it requires instaling a script on the webserver of the mythbox
Dec 20 01:46:25 <scoutcamper>  sanaking mac?
Dec 20 01:46:29 <sanaking> RMind: yeah i saw that. is that a prob/diff?
Dec 20 01:46:41 <sanaking> scoutcamper: my name's not mac :)
Dec 20 01:47:30 <scoutcamper> sanaking, what os? and wehat version?
Dec 20 01:47:41 <scoutcamper> sanaking, what version of webos?
Dec 20 01:48:00 <RMind> I'm still gonna try the app, but that is a big pain
Dec 20 01:48:07 <sanaking> Linux! like phone like desktop.. :)
Dec 20 01:48:10 <sanaking> RMind: oh :(
Dec 20 01:48:36 <SineOt> RMind: does MythTV not already have an API for stuff like that?
Dec 20 01:49:37 <RMind> it does have one using a net socket or something but that is not how webmyth was designed
Dec 20 01:50:21 <SineOt> probably because until NodeJS came along with 2.0, you couldn't do sockets
Dec 20 01:50:36 <RMind> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Telnet_socket
Dec 20 01:51:21 <sanaking> sockets?
Dec 20 01:51:23 <SineOt> that's dumb, can't even do UTF8
Dec 20 01:51:31 <sanaking> aren't sockets the basis of the internet??
Dec 20 01:51:36 <sanaking> doesn't wirc use sockets?
Dec 20 01:52:18 <RMind> wirc is a hybrid app and that's what I figured a myth remote would be
Dec 20 01:52:20 <SineOt> well, rather
Dec 20 01:52:33 <SineOt> wIRC uses a PDK plugin to handle that
Dec 20 01:52:46 <sanaking> is the myth app mojo then?
Dec 20 01:52:47 <SineOt> and even then, those didn't show up until like 1.4
Dec 20 01:52:50 <SineOt> most likely
Dec 20 01:52:59 <SineOt> 2.0 adds NodeJS which lets you do direct socket stuff in JS
Dec 20 01:53:02 <RMind> *shrugs*  now I want to get home so I can try this
Dec 20 01:53:08 <sanaking> haha
Dec 20 01:53:34 <SineOt> I wrote a NodeJS service that does UDP broadcast packets for Boxee/XBMC discovery
Dec 20 01:54:36 <SineOt> which honestly is pretty awesome
Dec 20 01:54:51 <SineOt> I hope to at some point rewrite my Boxee remote to use TCP sockets and the JSON RPC
Dec 20 01:54:55 <SineOt> it should be insanely quick
Dec 20 01:56:05 <PuffTheMagic> are there any users in here that get the "waiting for plugin" bug in wIRC still?
Dec 20 01:56:06 <RMind> now just if I coul get mythtv to not crash.  heh
Dec 20 01:56:16 <RMind> PuffTheMagic, yes
Dec 20 01:56:22 <RMind> wait... no
Dec 20 01:56:35 <PuffTheMagic> yes or no?
Dec 20 01:56:36 <RMind> it doesn't even get that far
Dec 20 01:57:03 <PuffTheMagic> what does it do?
Dec 20 01:57:18 <RMind> just the wirc icon with the glow around it
Dec 20 01:57:36 <PuffTheMagic> really? what device and what version of wirc is that?
Dec 20 01:59:29 <RMind> pre plus, wirc 0.3.5.82436c1
Dec 20 01:59:45 <PuffTheMagic> 1.4.5?
Dec 20 01:59:57 <RMind> it's happened before, but just started happening again with this last update
Dec 20 02:00:03 <PuffTheMagic> hmmm
Dec 20 02:00:07 <RMind> yeah 1.4.5.1
Dec 20 02:01:02 <PuffTheMagic> RMind, if I email you a link to 0.3.6 would u install it and see if u get the same issue?
Dec 20 02:01:36 <RMind> it just hangs at that screen forever until I use jstop to 'delete' it
Dec 20 02:01:53 <RMind> PuffTheMagic, sure
Dec 20 02:02:08 <PuffTheMagic> well i in 035 i changed how wirc shuts down and it seems to have caused a new bug
Dec 20 02:02:20 <PuffTheMagic> so i made another change that im hoping is cleaner
Dec 20 02:02:25 <PuffTheMagic> RMind, pm me your email
Dec 20 02:02:37 <RMind> it did this a few versions ago too
Dec 20 02:02:49 <sanaking> damnit developer.palm.com wants javascript. guess i won't be able to login there after all..
Dec 20 02:05:52 <PuffTheMagic> RMind, sent
Dec 20 02:06:28 <RMind> if I disappear it's cause customers came in
Dec 20 02:06:42 <PuffTheMagic> k
Dec 20 02:06:50 <PuffTheMagic> RMind, im always around so let me know hwo it goes
Dec 20 02:08:31 <sanaking> ok think i'm gonna go doctor now. sucks to be off the internet tho!
Dec 20 02:19:05 * sanaking remembers.. "WebOS 2.0 by the end of the year"
Dec 20 02:20:31 * sanaking needs a better luna boot logo..
Dec 20 02:21:18 <SineOt> hey, WebOS 2 has been out for a while! :]
Dec 20 02:21:22 <sanaking> my hardcase prevents me from using my touchstone.. maybe i need one of them earth magnets or something
Dec 20 02:21:31 <SineOt> they didn't say what it'd be on... Sure it's only on the Pre2, but it's 2.0~
Dec 20 02:21:39 <sanaking> SineOt: I guess Ruby is like a president, upto interpreation?
Dec 20 02:22:13 <SineOt> Ruby is like any smart business person
Dec 20 02:22:37 <SineOt> make vague promises, if it fails, leave a loop hole to get out of it with, if you get it out earlier, you're just that good
Dec 20 02:22:54 * SineOt may have been watching too much Star Trek... Hm.
Dec 20 02:23:11 <sanaking> SineOt: Well, I don't really consider the Pre2 to be "out" either, so..
Dec 20 02:23:30 <SineOt> Well... You can buy them. That's out enough.
Dec 20 02:23:46 <sanaking> I can't. I'd like a Vz Pre2 replacement unit..
Dec 20 02:24:10 <SineOt> that's more a VZW problem
Dec 20 02:28:50 <sanaking> see yaz
Dec 20 02:31:08 * sanaking gotta doctor..? 3x/wk, that's all we ask! :(
Dec 20 02:34:12 <RMind> PuffTheMagic: that was an adventure
Dec 20 02:34:41 <PuffTheMagic> lol ya i know
Dec 20 02:34:44 <PuffTheMagic> evenone has had issues
Dec 20 02:34:50 <PuffTheMagic> let me get a new versionr eason
Dec 20 02:36:37 <RMind> I think I had both issues
Dec 20 02:37:29 <PuffTheMagic> ya that was not a good build one sec
Dec 20 02:38:20 <RMind> I had to use jstop to kill wirc to get past the glowing logo and even when I did that it wouldn't go past "waiting for plugin"
Dec 20 02:38:39 <PuffTheMagic> ya
Dec 20 02:38:40 <PuffTheMagic> i know why
Dec 20 02:39:23 <RMind> there a way to downgrade in preware?
Dec 20 02:39:34 <PuffTheMagic> just wait 2 seconds
Dec 20 02:39:38 <PuffTheMagic> i will give u a new ipk
Dec 20 02:40:08 <RMind> I wound up removing it and reinstalling... but then I lost all my settings
Dec 20 02:40:30 <RMind> and restoring from save/restore didn't get tham back  :(
Dec 20 02:40:30 <rwhitby-pre> should have used save/restore
Dec 20 02:40:38 <rwhitby-pre> orly?
Dec 20 02:41:48 <RMind> rwhitby-pre: I tried  :(
Dec 20 02:43:05 <RMind> I even made sure that wirc wasn't in jstop when I tried, but when I opened it again it was still empty
Dec 20 02:43:35 <RMind> it = wirc
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Dec 20 02:59:58 2010