**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 04 02:59:58 2011
Jan 04 05:31:52 <dick-richardson> Is the repo down?
Jan 04 05:33:28 <dick-richardson> ledmanager and systoolsmgr are both giving a 404 when trying to install...
Jan 04 05:33:42 <halfhalo> Precentrals is
Jan 04 05:59:36 <Shaikh> Hello all! Havent been around in a long time. Whats new with WebOS news?!
Jan 04 05:59:42 <chrisa> Nothing at all
Jan 04 05:59:52 <Shaikh> really?
Jan 04 05:59:55 <Shaikh> lame
Jan 04 06:00:26 <chrisa> I'm actually a bit of a troll since quitting, but really nothing much is going on publically
Jan 04 06:00:48 <Shaikh> since quitting?
Jan 04 06:05:26 <bpadalino> the lack of updates have been a little saddening ..
Jan 04 06:05:32 <bpadalino> but it is a re-write of a lot of the systems
Jan 04 06:05:38 <bpadalino> not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing in general
Jan 04 06:06:26 <Shaikh> hmm, any more developements for the FrankenDoctor for Castle?
Jan 04 06:06:59 <bpadalino> i don't think so ..
Jan 04 06:21:48 <lingfish> YAY!!  I haz mah Pre 2!!!!!
Jan 04 06:28:52 <lingfish> 2
Jan 04 06:30:48 <torchie> woo
Jan 04 07:58:02 <lingfish> anyone here who has a clue on palm profiles, save/restore etc?
Jan 04 07:58:35 <lingfish> I'm just wanting to confirm the order of ops for my migration to my Pre 2
Jan 04 07:58:45 <lingfish> I've done save/restore on old, plus a Palm backup
Jan 04 07:59:07 <lingfish> Do I need to copy basically all of the USB drive in it before logging into my existing profile on the new phone?
Jan 04 07:59:29 <lingfish> Or can I just now sign in, and plug the old one into USB/PC later to get the backups off it?
Jan 04 07:59:45 <oil> once you sign into a new phone, your old one is wiped
Jan 04 08:00:01 <lingfish> Right, but that can only happen if it has a data connection...
Jan 04 08:00:01 <oil> you should get the save/restore data off the usb partition before logging into the new phone
Jan 04 08:00:08 <oil> um, idk
Jan 04 08:00:10 <lingfish> ah, right.
Jan 04 08:00:12 <oil> better safe then sorry?
Jan 04 08:00:24 <lingfish> Well, it should still boot without SIM and do USB mode right?
Jan 04 08:01:02 <lingfish> (and hello oil, LTNS :))
Jan 04 08:01:22 <oil> idk, never done it
Jan 04 08:01:30 <lingfish> trying...
Jan 04 08:01:53 <lingfish> and anything else I'm missing... save/restore, Palm backup, copy all of USB, then ready to login?
Jan 04 08:02:08 <rwhitby> lingfish: phone can wipe itself in some cases
Jan 04 08:02:27 <lingfish> Sorry to be a pain, just wanting to be sure I do it all in the right order.
Jan 04 08:02:30 <rwhitby> I'd personally do a meta-doctor "make backup" too
Jan 04 08:02:53 <lingfish> I'm actually not all that fussed if I lose wifi settings, or a Preware app here or there... but yeah.
Jan 04 08:03:27 <lingfish> Well, I use EAS and everything-else-cloud for all my contacts etc... just wondering if a full backup of the USB drive should garner the rest.
Jan 04 08:04:22 <lingfish> Interesting... no USB mode/prompt without a SIM
Jan 04 08:04:35 <oil> orange+sym+u
Jan 04 08:04:36 <oil> ?
Jan 04 08:04:42 <lingfish> I was just gonna try that heh
Jan 04 08:05:02 <lingfish> nada.
Jan 04 08:05:04 <lingfish> interesting.
Jan 04 08:05:20 <rwhitby> oh, you have old novacom drivers
Jan 04 08:05:43 <lingfish> weird
Jan 04 08:05:44 <lingfish> fix?
Jan 04 08:06:02 <rwhitby> new drivers for win/mac in doctor
Jan 04 08:06:15 <lingfish> k
Jan 04 08:06:25 <lingfish> the 1.4.x doctor should be good enough?
Jan 04 08:06:32 <rwhitby> no, new drivers for 2.0
Jan 04 08:06:56 <lingfish> I mean no USB mode on old phone though
Jan 04 08:07:13 <rwhitby> oh, that's your computer then
Jan 04 08:07:23 <lingfish> weird... it worked a few hours ago heh.
Jan 04 08:07:27 <lingfish> But I had a SIM in it.
Jan 04 08:07:38 <rwhitby> windows?
Jan 04 08:07:45 <lingfish> It shows the Pre in Win7 there (to stop it)... just no Q: drive.
Jan 04 08:07:47 <lingfish> yup
Jan 04 08:07:50 <rwhitby> case closed
Jan 04 08:08:40 <lingfish> lol... has worked 100% of the time before now Rod ;)  I dare say it needs the SIM in.  Will try.
Jan 04 08:14:48 <lingfish> restart of novacom did it.
Jan 04 08:15:44 <lingfish> ok, so I should just copy all of the drive to be safe you think?
Jan 04 08:16:24 <rwhitby> yep, any operation, doctor or OTA, can at any time wipe your complete device
Jan 04 08:17:04 <lingfish> cool, and that'll include the Save/Restore folder(s) of course?
Jan 04 08:17:08 <rwhitby> yep
Jan 04 08:17:52 <lingfish> Nice.  I wonder if I can just copy back the iPod* stuff to get music back -- or does S/R do that as well?
Jan 04 08:18:18 <rwhitby> S/R only does what it says it does
Jan 04 08:18:47 <lingfish> I'll rephrase -- I'm nervous about "cruft" coming over just doing a full save and then restore... is that nervousness unjustified?
Jan 04 08:19:26 <rwhitby> it's just stuff on the usb drive
Jan 04 08:19:38 <rwhitby> and you restore stuff as you need it
Jan 04 08:19:56 <rwhitby> (well, one at a time, before you save again)
Jan 04 08:22:11 <lingfish> restore stuff one at a time via S/R you mean?
Jan 04 08:22:33 <lingfish> sorry, ignorance on my part here, but when quickly looking at the list, it looks like S/R does wifi settings and a whole bunch of "system" stuff
Jan 04 08:23:19 <rwhitby> if you ask it to restore that stuff, yes.
Jan 04 08:23:25 <lingfish> k.
Jan 04 08:24:06 <lingfish> ok well, did S/R, Palm Backup, copy of full USB just finished.  I don't think there's anything else to do now, except move SIM to new and sign in right? :)
Jan 04 08:24:25 <lingfish> (already in love with the GGlass screen BTW, heh.)
Jan 04 08:25:02 <lingfish> Hrm, prolly should have taken note of Preware apps.
Jan 04 08:27:16 <lingfish> so once up with the new, just copy the saverestore dir back, install Preware, S/R, and blam?
Jan 04 08:28:14 <rwhitby> ~hgoh
Jan 04 08:28:15 <infobot> methinks hgoh is the Holy Grail of Homebrew, which can be found at http://bit.ly/holy-grail-of-homebrew
Jan 04 08:28:21 <rwhitby> read that one
Jan 04 08:28:56 <lingfish> k.  lol, doze just whinged about a filename being too long on the copy.
Jan 04 08:28:57 <lingfish> ugh.
Jan 04 08:29:25 <rwhitby> yeah, one reason why S/R does .zip files
Jan 04 08:29:35 <lingfish> Right, I'll do the same.
Jan 04 08:31:53 <lingfish> I might just use tar as well.
Jan 04 08:38:32 <lingfish> ack, should have done the saved packages before this backup, duh
Jan 04 14:31:35 <WindBell2> Does WIDK support  Webos 2.0 yet?
Jan 04 16:24:41 <ice8lue> heyho
Jan 04 16:47:24 <Loudergood> klktrk: looks like the demand is already there http://forums.precentral.net/general-webos-chat/271961-why-dont-smartphones.html
Jan 04 17:22:23 <klktrk> Loudergood: not sure if you really meant to post that to me, as i'm new to the conversation. of course, I still read the thread. I don't see the big deal. samba already *is* available as an optware ipk.
Jan 04 17:23:52 <Loudergood> yeah but people want an easy way to make it "just work", thought I'd let you know that it looked like your work would be appreciated quickly when you got it done
Jan 04 17:24:12 <klktrk> Loudergood: i'm not working on file sharing.
Jan 04 17:24:46 <klktrk> Loudergood: i'm exploring a way to simply be able to tunnel all ports and protocols when you're on a public wifi.
Jan 04 17:25:06 <klktrk> Loudergood: which is kind of the opposite. :-)
Jan 04 17:25:24 <Loudergood> oh right...you were doing python and that as well...hmm who was it then..
Jan 04 17:25:39 <klktrk> Loudergood: dunno.
Jan 04 20:58:28 <Jack87-Work> http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/04/verizons-palm-pre-2-gets-teased-on-walmarts-site-in-case-so/
Jan 04 20:58:40 <Jack87-Work> incase someone cares? really?
Jan 04 20:59:58 <SineOt> There's a big HP event going on in a month's time about new hardware, yeah, who cares? P:
Jan 04 21:00:21 <Loudergood> yeah, that was posted yesterday on precentral wasn't it?
Jan 04 21:01:04 <Loudergood> half tempted to sell my pre2 right now..but then I wouldn't have a 2.0 device..
Jan 04 21:01:25 <PuffTheMagic> why would u sell it?
Jan 04 21:02:05 <Loudergood> to put money in the bank for something that might take 6 months to come out
Jan 04 21:02:24 <Loudergood> actually when I put it that way...it doesn't sound like such a good idea
Jan 04 21:02:36 <SineOt> yeah
Jan 04 21:02:46 <PuffTheMagic> lol
Jan 04 21:02:53 <SineOt> sell it when the thing is coming out and you can buy it that day :]
Jan 04 21:02:58 * Jack87-Work hasnt looked at precentral for awhile
Jan 04 21:03:14 * PuffTheMagic will return beer bottles when its time to upgrade
Jan 04 21:03:26 <Loudergood> yeah, I expect the value of a pre2 is going to drop a bit by then..but maybe not
Jan 04 21:03:48 <PuffTheMagic> i wasnt aware the pre2 had any value to begin with ;)
Jan 04 21:04:06 <SineOt> It's worth it's weight in iodized salt!
Jan 04 21:04:07 <PuffTheMagic> pixi forever
Jan 04 21:05:10 <Loudergood> actually the build quality of the pre2 is really good
Jan 04 21:06:14 <PuffTheMagic> if thicker and heavier and same oreo issues is really good then i would agree with you
Jan 04 21:06:52 <Loudergood> I haven't really noticed the oreo issue with my pre+ and I've had it since august...
Jan 04 21:09:43 * oil thinks PuffTheMagic needs that on a shirt
Jan 04 21:10:10 <PuffTheMagic> oil, what exactly, "pixie forever"
Jan 04 21:10:17 <oil> yeah
Jan 04 21:11:02 <PuffTheMagic> :D
Jan 04 21:11:11 <oil> with a drawing of an angry pixie
Jan 04 21:12:27 <PuffTheMagic> and led toggle on the back?
Jan 04 21:12:33 <oil> YES
Jan 04 21:12:36 <PuffTheMagic> lol
Jan 04 21:12:45 * PuffTheMagic starts PTM Shirt Co.
Jan 04 21:12:55 <oil> you should hide that image in freetether as a easteregg
Jan 04 21:13:09 <PuffTheMagic> adds "Whistle while you wIRC" to the t-shirt list
Jan 04 21:13:55 <asedeno_work> ++
Jan 04 21:15:42 <oil> is that not a tagline in wirc?
Jan 04 21:15:44 <oil> it should be
Jan 04 21:15:58 <PuffTheMagic> yes it should be
Jan 04 21:16:05 * oil opens eclipse
Jan 04 21:16:05 <PuffTheMagic> maybe -internals should make a shirt company
Jan 04 21:17:25 <oil> done :)
Jan 04 21:17:56 <oil> too bad freetether gets no random subtitles :/
Jan 04 21:18:12 <PuffTheMagic> it has no header what so ever
Jan 04 21:18:35 <oil> exactly
Jan 04 21:19:01 <PuffTheMagic> there arent any good taglines for ft anyway
Jan 04 21:19:06 <PuffTheMagic> so not really missing out on anything
Jan 04 21:19:28 <oil> not... yet
Jan 04 21:21:51 <SineOt> "it's alright, everyone tethers so they can view porn without using the public wifi"
Jan 04 21:39:12 <torchie> <3 random subtitles
Jan 04 21:39:20 <torchie> freetether - it whips the llama's ass?
Jan 04 22:32:14 * egaudet` wants FT header/subtitles
Jan 04 22:32:17 * egaudet` will crack PuffTheMagic
Jan 04 22:34:14 <rwhitby> I wonder if "Donations requested, not required" will fit
Jan 04 22:34:31 <rwhitby> (with a link to the donation page)
Jan 04 22:34:57 <lingfish> Mornin.
Jan 04 22:35:09 <egaudet`> that's a good one rwhitby :)
Jan 04 22:35:15 <egaudet`> see PuffTheMagic we want random subtitles :P
Jan 04 22:35:28 <egaudet`> everyone loves em!
Jan 04 22:36:13 * Loudergood adds "random notification app" to his list
Jan 04 22:36:42 <oilsworkn> <3 webosinternals header style
Jan 04 22:38:35 <user317> i am using a pixi as a learning/experimenting tool, i am trying to figure out how to write a simple "kernel" that when boots writes "hello world" in klog.  i am able to simulate what i want on qemu, but when i boot my image on the pixi it hangs without writing anything to klog
Jan 04 22:40:12 <user317> anyone know much about the boot processes?  from what i understand the mmu should be off, and the klog physical address is passed via the ATAG data structure in register 2, so the third argument to the start function of the kernel
Jan 04 22:49:07 <oilsworkn> user317: i personally don't know much about that part of things
Jan 04 22:49:25 <oilsworkn> i suggest waiting for unixpsycho to show up
Jan 04 22:49:42 <lingfish> Hrm, should I just Doctor to 2.0.1 before I do too much on my 2?
Jan 04 22:50:01 <lingfish> Seems to be no OTA.
Jan 04 22:50:19 <user317> is there a mailing list?  i notice a couple of guys in the git source tree working on bootloader stuff, i would like to get in touch with them
Jan 04 22:50:59 <oilsworkn> lingfish: doctoring 201 onto mine was the first thing i did
Jan 04 22:51:43 <oilsworkn> user317: idk if that was webos-internals folk doing that, or if it was just in our repo
Jan 04 22:51:44 <lingfish> oilsworkn: k, will do then.  Any reason for no OTA though?
Jan 04 22:51:45 <oilsworkn> rwhitby: ?
Jan 04 22:52:10 <oilsworkn> lingfish: idk
Jan 04 22:53:06 <oilsworkn> sorry user317 nobody who can help seems to be around :/
Jan 04 22:53:55 <user317> no worries, do you know if there is a way to contact people who have commited stuff to your repo?
Jan 04 22:54:48 <user317> ah cool, i see it the the commits
Jan 04 22:54:59 <oilsworkn> yeah
Jan 04 22:55:01 <oilsworkn> email
Jan 04 22:55:07 <oilsworkn> if they filled that in anyways
Jan 04 22:55:26 <oilsworkn> but most of them are in here every so often
Jan 04 22:57:52 <rwhitby> user317: hang around for 30 mins
Jan 04 22:58:06 <user317> cool thanks
Jan 04 23:05:27 <rwhitby> user317: unfortunately, more has been done on the Pre boot process than the Pixi, but they may be the same.
Jan 04 23:05:44 <rwhitby> user317: I presume you're familia with bootie?
Jan 04 23:07:17 <user317> how to use it?
Jan 04 23:07:24 <user317> yea, is there source for it somewhere?
Jan 04 23:07:58 <SineOt> rwhitby: does the Pixi use Bootie?
Jan 04 23:08:03 <user317> yea it does
Jan 04 23:08:32 <user317> at least it looks like it, the doctor loads a bootie image if you try to flash your pixi
Jan 04 23:10:39 <user317> ok, since i am just really learning about all this, i am not sure where i am going wrong.  i have an image that i link so that the start function is where bootie expects it to be, 0x00208000 for the pixi linux kernel, and i wrap that up with mkimage, basically pretending that i am a linux kernel
Jan 04 23:10:53 <user317> i can boot my image in qemu so, i am confident that my linker script is correct
Jan 04 23:11:56 <user317> but when i try to boot that ont he pixi, it just brings the phone down, so i suspect that maybe the mmu is on for some reason, or the address that i get from the kernel arguments are virtual or relative to some page thats mapped into memory or something, i am not sure about that part at all
Jan 04 23:14:13 <user317> i pulled the klog driver from the patched palm kernel, so i think thats correct as well, although i have no way to verify that
Jan 04 23:16:01 <rwhitby> user317: not sure where to advise you to start debugging that one.
Jan 04 23:16:09 <rwhitby> it's difficult without a serial console
Jan 04 23:16:29 <rwhitby> we don't have source for bootie, either.
Jan 04 23:18:33 <egaudet`> volup+c
Jan 04 23:19:44 <user317> yea, i am a little lost as well, do you know what the "wall" is?  can i write to that?
Jan 04 23:19:49 <egaudet`> nvm what I just said, bbl
Jan 04 23:20:35 <rwhitby> user317: I believe that's in the SRAM in the OMAP
Jan 04 23:22:10 <user317> omap is on the pre right?  pixi has a qualcomm chip in it, but its probably similar
Jan 04 23:23:14 <SineOt> yeah, pre is an OMAP3 and the Pixi is an MSM7627
Jan 04 23:23:57 <user317> do you know if anyone has been able to put a open source bootloader on  webos device?  i am a afraid to muck with the pixi one because i dont think i can reloaded it if i corrupt it
Jan 04 23:51:42 <destinal> user317: I'm not sure if I would trust myself not to brick a pixi.  pre, as an omap3 has usb boot so it should be basically impossible to brick
Jan 04 23:52:59 <destinal> user317: x-loader + u-boot should work on pre though I imagine we'll need board specific changes to it.
Jan 04 23:55:20 <destinal> user317: I like the idea of a chain loader approach where you get loaded as if you are a kernel and then load the real kernel in place and execute it when done
Jan 05 00:07:38 <rwhitby> destinal: yeah, I'd be wary experimenting on a pixi
Jan 05 00:09:37 <user317> destinal: yea thats what i am looking for, so i am trying to grok the interface between bootie and the kernel
Jan 05 00:12:58 <destinal> user317: I imagine it's based on pretty standard ARM linux conventions but I'm not really familiar with how it works.  geist could tell you much more
Jan 05 00:13:27 <destinal> (as bootie is his baby)
Jan 05 00:26:25 <Davide-NYC> any freetether updates?
Jan 05 00:39:09 <lingfish> Hrm, my Doctoring to 2.0.1 is not going well :/
Jan 05 00:39:59 <lingfish> "We were unable to reset your phone"
Jan 05 00:40:30 <destinal> lingfish: sounds like the baseband may be confused
Jan 05 00:41:18 <lingfish> destinal: yeah, its odd... done rebootage now and reinstalled Novacom stuff... Doctor notices I've plugged it in, goes to "charging batt" screen for a while
Jan 05 00:41:29 <lingfish> the phone brings up the USB drive screen... and that's it
Jan 05 00:42:11 <destinal> lingfish: ah, that.. which device and what SDK and what OS?
Jan 05 00:42:47 <lingfish> I have the 2 SDK installed... I have a US Pre 2, and I'm trying to doctor to 2.0.1 on win7
Jan 05 00:44:07 <lingfish> If I hit the power button momentarily once on the phone, it starts booting.
Jan 05 00:46:22 <lingfish> And then it seems the novacom/systray gets stuck. A nova service restart on win fixes that at least
Jan 05 00:48:21 <lingfish> My Novacom driver is ver 1.0.1.0, dated 9/10/2009
Jan 05 00:48:25 <lingfish> I'm guessing that can't be good.
Jan 05 00:52:15 <rwhitby> you need 2.0 novacom from 2.0 doctor
Jan 05 00:53:27 <lingfish> yeah, that's what I thought too... doctor is a java app it seems right?  As once run, it does flash up installing of Nova...
Jan 05 00:54:12 <lingfish> trying to inuninstall the existing driver now
Jan 05 00:54:24 <destinal> lingfish: you can always extract the msi from the jar also
Jan 05 00:54:35 <destinal> install it by hand just to make sure
Jan 05 00:54:52 <lingfish> k
Jan 05 00:55:20 <lingfish> Hrm, all I have is a jnlp though
Jan 05 00:55:29 <lingfish> Perhaps I'm pulling the doctor from the wrong place
Jan 05 00:55:47 <destinal> lingfish: you can get the jar directly from http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Webos_Doctor_Versions
Jan 05 00:55:58 <lingfish> ta.
Jan 05 00:56:03 <Loudergood> yeah I always use that page, it has a very nice list
Jan 05 00:59:33 <rwhitby> it's the first page I update when a new webOS version is released
Jan 05 00:59:51 <lingfish> Sorry, I figured using the JWS version would be fine :/
Jan 05 01:04:26 <Loudergood> hmm...do the work I should be starting by now, or go back to trying to build widk
Jan 05 01:09:14 <lingfish> Better.... looks like using the jar has done the trick (plus uninstalling it all)
Jan 05 01:44:53 <lingfish> Is it possible to just web browse to install the Preware ipk?
Jan 05 01:48:31 <Loudergood> lingfish: pretty sure you need to plug it into a pc
Jan 05 01:48:39 <destinal> lingfish: negative, without preware you can't install from web pages
Jan 05 01:48:51 <lingfish> k, ta.
Jan 05 01:48:53 <Loudergood> put it in devmode and run the preware installer
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jan 05 02:59:58 2011