**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 20 02:59:57 2011 Jul 20 03:00:22 Figured this installation wouldn't take by 5 minutes, not 2 hours Jul 20 03:01:28 the cryptofs bug is nasty Jul 20 03:01:54 So is the media indexer bug Jul 20 03:07:45 cryptofs bug? Jul 20 03:11:17 the hell i can't install an updated xserver package? nonsense about configurator or somethig Jul 20 03:11:18 booooo Jul 20 03:11:42 uhoh Jul 20 03:12:04 man.. I really don't want to doctor... Jul 20 03:12:28 * PatrickC wonders why he didn't make the meta-doctor have ext3fs today... Jul 20 03:19:19 okay figured it out. Jul 20 03:19:31 apparently you cannot simply use palm-install to update a package that's depended on by another Jul 20 03:19:52 annoying but at least i can make progress now.... Jul 20 03:20:52 hp movie store update?! Jul 20 03:21:06 and kindle Jul 20 03:21:16 man i'm outta the loop Jul 20 03:21:28 * PatrickC has kindle on his pre2 Jul 20 03:21:34 doesn't look right though Jul 20 03:23:29 I thought kindle was TP only Jul 20 03:24:32 it is Jul 20 03:24:39 Impostah gets around that Jul 20 03:26:21 Hmm... does it work as intended or is it formatted weirdly? Jul 20 03:26:28 whats the appid Jul 20 03:26:34 formatted weirdly Jul 20 03:26:39 com.palm.app.kindle iirc Jul 20 03:26:49 you *need* enyo installed for it to work properly Jul 20 03:26:58 2.1 here on my pre- Jul 20 03:27:19 enyo is not installed unless you installed it manually Jul 20 03:27:24 Still waiting on that dev program before buying a TP Jul 20 03:27:30 Oh well, I dont need kindle Jul 20 03:28:25 Well... I give up. OpenSSH refuses to work Jul 20 03:32:32 did a grep for sshd and got that the server is listening on 0.0.0.0 port 22, that doesn't sound right Jul 20 03:34:04 that is correct Jul 20 03:35:17 wait so it is supposed to listen on that address or I am correct in that it is wrong? lol Jul 20 03:45:06 finally! Jul 20 03:45:18 *cries* Jul 20 03:47:18 Abyssul: 0.0.0.0 means any address Jul 20 03:47:29 TIL Jul 20 04:13:42 Hello - I saw a twitpic of LibreOffice running on a Touchpad...excellent - was wondering if anyone has plans to make the binary available ? Jul 20 04:14:29 or if not is there any special build instructions available anywhere? Jul 20 04:15:08 are you talking about ubuntu itself? Jul 20 04:15:12 or LebreOffice? Jul 20 04:15:36 libreoffice was running inside an ubuntu installation running in a chroot on the touchpad Jul 20 04:15:47 PatrickC: ahh I see... Jul 20 04:15:56 sorry - that is dwc.... ahhh I see Jul 20 04:16:22 yep.. Jul 20 04:16:24 night all Jul 20 04:16:56 once you havr your chroot, you can install whatever Jul 20 04:18:10 dwc-: alright - thanks, I was just caught by the application reference - I help out with LibreOffice and thought if you (someone) had ported it to WebOS 3, that was kind of a big deal... Jul 20 04:18:52 yea, that would be pretty cool Jul 20 04:18:56 which is not to say that running Ubuntu on the Touchpad (or anything else) isn't now that I thinik of it actually Jul 20 04:19:49 dwc-: It wold be - any thoughts on just how large a task that might be - I know nothing of the WebOS platform , really.. Jul 20 04:20:40 yipper: yes, it's a ubuntu chroot rendering on Xsdl in a webOS card Jul 20 04:21:35 Futher proof that Sprint isn't carrying WebOS products soon, their product portfolio PPT doesn't show HP/Palm Jul 20 04:21:56 http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/07/sprint-fared-adib.jpg Jul 20 04:22:07 rwhitby-pre: thanks for the details Jul 20 04:25:32 rwhitby: I just asked dwc, if he had any thought on how much effort would be invlolved in working a port of LibreOffice to WebOS 3 as a 'native app' - any idea on that? Jul 20 04:26:02 would need an SDL backend Jul 20 04:27:58 seems like that would be a fair amount of work, unless there is something in there already for that Jul 20 04:29:25 I don;t know the answer - not even sure I know how to ask the question to be honest.. Jul 20 04:29:51 but perhaps the right folks to ask about it Jul 20 04:30:40 we saw the shortest path as getting an X server running Jul 20 04:31:40 right - Jul 20 04:31:54 that was they needed for a long time on Mac with OO.o Jul 20 04:32:32 but I thought the LibreOffice guys did more work on factoring out the need for X on Mac so maybe someting is in place to work on webOS...but I'm talking out the top of my hat..perhaps Jul 20 04:33:21 yeah, maybe there is an API layer there which can be mapped to SDL Jul 20 04:36:34 I don't have a Toucpad yet...was just now looking at the SDK/PDK downlaod page... I have Win and Linux boxes so I take it I wold need to work under Windows and use VS compiler to pay with this...yes? Jul 20 04:37:07 play with this of course... we only pay with our souls in FOSS...*smile* Jul 20 04:37:56 yipper: WebOS Internals does all it's development in OSX & Linux Jul 20 04:41:02 rwhitby: alright - I don't have access to OSX, but that wouldn't be a draw back then...thanks Jul 20 04:43:09 rwhitby: One more question if you don't mind - have you heard of any ODF tools (i.e. ODF Toolkit) under WebOS 3 ? Thanks Jul 20 04:43:24 I haven't. Jul 20 04:44:24 That particular is Java - is that a pretty striaght forward prospect on the Touchpad.. does the SDK/PDF include an emulator that I could test such libraries on? Jul 20 04:44:47 yep Jul 20 04:45:01 Then I think I know where to start... Jul 20 04:47:22 *chuckline*... i was thinking that I could start by trying to talk others into working on it with me...we are looking for ideas for some upcoming hackfests...I think a day of checking out some ODF libraries on WebOS would be a great one.. Jul 20 04:58:10 alright - thanks for the info... adios, for now, amigos Jul 20 06:07:45 There we go Jul 20 06:07:49 Frankenpre question Jul 20 06:07:52 any takers? Jul 20 06:08:24 ~ask Jul 20 06:08:25 Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. Jul 20 06:08:41 Are there some dark secrets to writing patches that anyone can point me towards? Imagine a source file with 3 lines of code and then imagine that 3 authors want to write unique patches for that file. Any choices other than create a monolithic patch? Jul 20 06:09:16 not really, no. Jul 20 06:09:16 Error454: use tweaks to make the patch configurable Jul 20 06:09:35 I have just come upon a Verizon Pre Plus, I have a Sprint Pre. I've gotten the tokens and such. Do I have to bake them into every meta-doctor, or do I just have to do it the first time I doctor the new device? Jul 20 06:09:44 if it's just 3 lines, there's only so many things you can do to it, and if they're all unique sorts of changes, you're just kinda screwed Jul 20 06:09:49 glazedfaith: just once. Jul 20 06:10:02 and after that, I can doctor to my heart's content with no fears? Jul 20 06:10:13 glazedfaith: yep, it's effectively a new kind of device then Jul 20 06:10:26 dwc-: hence tweaks configuration of what it does Jul 20 06:10:57 rwhitby: Would you recommend staying with the 1.4.5, or going ahead with the 2.1? I've been using the 2.1 so long on my pre, I can't remember if there were really that many compelling differences Jul 20 06:11:00 imo, then those would be similar changes, not unique patches, really Jul 20 06:11:13 rwhitby: But even with tweaks, you need to put the code to handle the tweaks in there somewhere. Some of these files have so many patches, we're just out of space. Jul 20 06:11:20 rwhitby: also, should I go to 1.4.5 first to get the PRL update, and then go to 2.1? Jul 20 06:11:33 Error454: the tweaks version superceded the individual patches Jul 20 06:11:40 glazedfaith: you should Jul 20 06:12:26 but if two separate patch writers are writing tweaks-enhanced patches for similar areas of a single file, there still can be conflicts if they are modifying neighboring parts Jul 20 06:13:18 rwhitby: I've read stories of people replacing their pre's with other pre's and then sprint charges them the new 10$ data charge because it's a new phone. Could you also swap out the old comm board to fool sprint into thinking it's the same phone across multiple devices? Jul 20 06:13:46 you can live more dangerously, if you are sure that the lines being changed are unique to the file and remove lines of context around the diff... that'll make it apply cleaner, but has some dangers of mis-patching Jul 20 06:13:53 glazedfaith: yes Jul 20 06:13:57 Hmm, so I suppose we could try and replace some of the smaller patches with a big tweaks patch which would open things up Jul 20 06:14:15 glazedfaith: that's exactly how a sprint Pre 2 works Jul 20 06:14:16 Error454: yes Jul 20 06:14:32 Error454: that's the general direction, yes. Jul 20 06:14:55 thanks rod Jul 20 06:15:02 I'll let you know how it turns out Jul 20 06:15:21 Right, well that seems reasonable, I think that would really clean up some of the camera stuff. I'll start taking a closer look at tweaking all these naming patches. Jul 20 06:18:08 Hi all Jul 20 06:18:11 Oh, did anyone get minecraft running via xecutah? Jul 20 06:18:38 any one help me how to display dynamic data (sqlite) in virtual list ? Jul 20 06:19:59 any one pls Jul 20 06:21:02 Error454: not yet Jul 20 06:22:53 rwhitby: Sounds like fun but I'm already spread too thin, plus I'm afraid of the extreme time wasting that might ensue if I were successful Jul 20 06:23:35 hay Error 454 : would u like to help me Jul 20 06:24:44 User470: I don't know, do you think I can help you? Jul 20 06:25:27 hi Jul 20 06:30:37 al Jul 20 06:30:38 all Jul 20 06:32:19 Error454, i have been/am attempting to get minecraft going. However, it wants ia32-libs to run, and those arent for ARM, and their is no SRC code avaliable for ia32 so ive kinda hit a stumbling block Jul 20 06:32:36 Error454, however, minecrafts server runs fine :D Jul 20 06:34:05 scoutcamper: Hmm, of course the server runs fine. Hey who can claim to run a minecraft server on their phone? That's cool. Yeah ia32-libs, do they even exist for arm? Jul 20 06:34:34 nope Jul 20 06:34:37 thats the issue Jul 20 06:34:57 if i had the source, i would recompile them, but they are closed source Jul 20 06:35:03 what needs ia32-libs? I thought those were for cross-compatibility for 64-bit procs Jul 20 06:35:38 liblwjgl.so Jul 20 06:35:44 a java game library Jul 20 06:36:38 anyone working on Enyo? Jul 20 06:36:40 jmonkeyengine Jul 20 06:36:57 Aj889, enyo for what? Jul 20 06:39:51 scoutcamper: so you can't apt-get ia32-libs? Jul 20 06:40:00 enyo for webos3.0 Jul 20 06:40:20 Error454, nope Jul 20 06:40:28 Aj889, lots of people are Jul 20 06:41:04 then i have a simple prob Jul 20 06:41:17 why would there be an ia32-libs for arm? Jul 20 06:41:26 how to display sqlite db(dynamic data) in virtual list Jul 20 06:42:05 It looks like that game engine has an android port, so it can run on arm Jul 20 08:40:19 Ok, I got the comm boards swapped out, baked the tokens, ran the doctor, and I'm getting Sign In Failed, even though it says I'm on sprint, and I've got Ev Jul 20 08:40:23 What else am I missing? Jul 20 08:42:49 And it won't let me create a profile either Jul 20 08:42:55 Am I boned? Jul 20 08:43:36 wait for it... Jul 20 08:44:49 glazedfaith: post a log of the doctor that you ran from the command line to see the full logs. Jul 20 08:46:22 rwhitby: does it create a log, or should I look at the actual output in the terminal? Jul 20 08:47:00 when you run it from the command line you see copious amounts of logging Jul 20 08:47:06 right Jul 20 08:47:15 post a log of you building the doctor too Jul 20 08:47:24 k Jul 20 08:53:21 rwhitby: http://pastebin.com/zYCbgPJF Doctor Build Jul 20 08:53:55 rwhitby: http://pastebin.com/54ZsBzpG Running the Doctor Jul 20 08:55:16 glazedfaith: if you remove model check or remove carrier check you cannot log into a profile Jul 20 08:55:25 oh Jul 20 08:55:32 which wiki page are you following? Jul 20 08:55:33 then why did I do that? Jul 20 08:56:04 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Sprint_Pre_Plus Jul 20 08:59:23 It does say sprint in the corner. Should I just go ahead and run the stock doctor now? The only reason I hadn't yet is because that wiki says to log in and check the device info to make sure that it says the proper Carrier and Model Jul 20 09:02:21 ##RTN# Reports PRODOID as P100EWW Jul 20 09:04:52 if DMCARRIER says Sprint, then you can just run a Sprint doctor on it Jul 20 09:06:34 in ##RTN# or somewhere else? Jul 20 09:35:45 rwhitby: success. Phone rebooting Jul 20 09:36:04 rwhitby: thanks for your help, rod. you're everybody's favorite. Jul 20 11:35:22 hi Jul 20 11:35:25 all Jul 20 11:37:42 hola Jul 20 11:39:52 any one working on Enyo ? Need a simple help Jul 20 11:48:25 what's your pblem? Jul 20 11:48:39 upps sry your away again :D Jul 20 11:48:46 *you're Jul 20 11:49:51 Ajay007778, you don't need to ask to ask a question... just ask the question and if someone has the answer they will likely give it Jul 20 11:52:54 pc-world, saw your article in P|C Jul 20 11:53:36 I'm concerned that the device will no longer go into USB mode. Jul 20 11:53:36 ka6sox: about the img file? Jul 20 11:53:46 yes Jul 20 11:54:30 because /media/internal is severed from the rest of the OS when you go into USB mode Jul 20 11:54:48 and anything (like an image file with links to it) will prevent that from happening. Jul 20 11:55:03 any one know how to display sqlite db in virtual list ? Jul 20 11:55:53 Aya007778: just make the query, when you get the results, call refresh, and in the render method display the contents Jul 20 11:56:31 yes but some how i dont know it is not working Jul 20 11:56:33 https://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16583 Jul 20 11:56:41 check my forum post Jul 20 11:56:42 ka6sox: Haven't tried it yet, but you can unmount before going into USB mode, or maybe adding a script that unmounts it before the USB mode is started Jul 20 11:57:21 then that would mean any optware apps would have to quit first Jul 20 11:57:34 so something like ssh server would STOP as that point Jul 20 11:57:46 @pc-world can you please check this https://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16583 Jul 20 11:58:11 Ajay007778: are you sure you have the setupRow method correctly defined? check the docs Jul 20 11:59:08 ka6sox: I did it because I don't want to doctor, don't want to lose any space in /media/internal and don't want to take any risk with repartitioning Jul 20 11:59:53 @pc-world : yes the probleam is that after getting data from the FOR loop how to display it in virtual list ..i got the valu in commented Alert Jul 20 12:00:11 pc-world, fair enough..however this method will most likely fail an OTA and certainly will fail a USB mode switch. Jul 20 12:00:42 ka6sox: my method is not thought for users who don't know what they're doing... it's thought for users who will think of unmounting it before an OTA update ;) Jul 20 12:00:58 this.$.caption1.setContent(results.rows.item(i).col1); this will not able to set virtual list caption Jul 20 12:01:12 Ajay007778: first, rename your current setupRow method Jul 20 12:01:21 ok Jul 20 12:01:26 pc-world, a better method in that case is to put it in cryptofs Jul 20 12:01:42 ka6sox: why? Jul 20 12:01:52 Ajay007778: then add your results to an array you store in your object Jul 20 12:02:02 Ajay007778: call render on your VirtualList Jul 20 12:02:29 Ajay007778: create a new setupRow like in the docs and set your content of the specified item every time setupRow is callec Jul 20 12:02:32 *called Jul 20 12:02:33 pc-world, because during USB mode the cryptofs is "suspended" and when USB mode is exited it is "reconnected" Jul 20 12:02:51 Ajay007778: I think you should read the docs about VirtualList Jul 20 12:02:59 ka6sox: ok, did you try it? Jul 20 12:03:07 many many times Jul 20 12:03:20 ok let me try and performing according to your step Jul 20 12:03:34 by d way thanks pc-world Jul 20 12:03:56 pc-world, deepending on the app it will either recover from this or fail.... Jul 20 12:04:08 but at least it won't prevent entering USB mode Jul 20 12:04:41 actually I don't want optware to use my Ubuntu image :) Jul 20 12:04:54 I think it would be better for optware to not use my ubuntu image but another one Jul 20 12:05:05 because I have to recreate my ubuntu image several tiimes Jul 20 12:05:08 okay I"m sortty I meant ubuntu image Jul 20 12:05:10 so optware would be lost too Jul 20 12:05:27 yes, true too Jul 20 12:05:38 yes but I think optware uses /media/ext3fs too Jul 20 12:05:49 this should be configurable Jul 20 12:05:50 doesn't have to Jul 20 12:06:09 if /media/ext3fs is NOT present it creates an image in cryptofs Jul 20 12:07:39 I know but if it is it uses it without asking the user Jul 20 12:08:31 then the discussion is moot as someone (currently) has doctored the device. Jul 20 12:09:01 because thats (currently) the only way for that partition to be created. Jul 20 12:11:07 I have manually resized/rrepartitioned about 20 times and it works fine...(because I do it a lot I'm not uncomfortable with that) Jul 20 12:11:36 but to make it 'safe" under all conditions does take work...so its not something (currently) to be done lightly. Jul 20 12:12:27 the idea of putting the chroot in the cryptofs is one that has been talked aobut for a long time. Jul 20 12:13:08 however since it most likely will at minimum suspend whatever is runining in the chroot and may in fact crash it, it isn't a great optoin. Jul 20 12:14:47 ok Jul 20 12:14:49 have to leave now Jul 20 12:15:43 I was concerned that folks trying this would end up with killing USB mode first. Jul 20 12:16:21 okay have a good day...I should probably get some sleep before I have to wake up too. Jul 20 12:16:30 then write a post in the thread to warn users ;) Jul 20 12:16:36 thanks Jul 20 12:20:50 @ka6sox Jul 20 12:20:52 hi Jul 20 12:21:07 hi Ajay007778 Jul 20 12:22:31 i am stuck in a simple prob Jul 20 12:22:45 https://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16583 Jul 20 12:22:52 can you pls help me Jul 20 12:23:12 just replay a small solution code on that thread ... Jul 20 12:24:00 that is outside of what I really know...wish I could hlep but I probably would steer you wrong :( Jul 20 12:24:41 its ok Jul 20 12:25:15 my js knowledge is very very small (non-existatn) Jul 20 12:25:33 Imostly deal with base OS things... Jul 20 12:25:46 hmmm.. nop Jul 20 12:25:59 my too i am nooby to webOS Jul 20 12:27:01 ya, its a bit different...but at least its not Java. Jul 20 12:29:04 ys Jul 20 12:57:48 meh, java's not so bad Jul 20 13:26:09 has there been any kernel overclocking for the pre2? Jul 20 14:10:21 nice!...http://kb.hpwebos.com/wps/portal/kb2/na/pre/p100eww/sprint/solutions/article/13171_en.html is what I've been looking for!...now I can remove the gesture tutorial app.... Jul 20 14:12:57 why couldn't you before? Jul 20 14:13:20 Is there any specific place I should go for help with creating a patch? Can patches through Preware add files to /etc/event.d? Jul 20 14:14:06 Trying to make this: http://forums.precentral.net/hp-touchpad/286890-beats-volume-anyone-4.html#post3038031 Jul 20 14:14:34 installable/removable through preware Jul 20 14:15:05 looked at the wiki and there's a lot of help with existing patches, but i couldn't find a page on what the limits of a patch were, and how to go about creating one Jul 20 14:15:28 I think it's recommended you use /var/palm/event.d over /etc/event.d Jul 20 14:16:07 hm, I didn't realize--I was using lighttpd's setup as a guide. I'll switch it over Jul 20 14:19:07 PatrickC: because I was hoping to find a way to make it teach me more than just the back gesture...but since that or the Help app do not work...they're gone. Jul 20 14:22:43 thanks dwc-, just updated the script to drop it in /var/palm/event.d instead Jul 20 14:26:35 Aha Jul 20 14:26:49 found the Gitorious repo for patches Jul 20 14:30:42 hm Jul 20 14:31:06 it appears I did not understand that patches were exactly what they say on the tin Jul 20 14:34:08 Nope! this is what i wanted Jul 20 14:34:12 http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications/blobs/webos-1.4.5/dangerous/dangerous-powersave-smartreflex.patch Jul 20 14:34:16 awesome Jul 20 15:02:28 Is the webOS patches upload form no longer available? Jul 20 15:03:50 pigsflew: Here you go => http://patches.webos-internals.org/ Jul 20 15:05:25 hape, thanks! Jul 20 15:15:33 You know what'd be a good patch? Jul 20 15:16:07 In a message app, goto the menu and select "Pop out message" or whatever, to create a new card out of it Jul 20 15:16:24 and, obviously, move back to the main message list Jul 20 15:22:16 so, just a hypothetical here - suppose I bought 2 pres for parts, and just for fun, carelessly metadoc'd them to 2.1 Jul 20 15:23:43 and then suppose, hypothetically, that one pre was in poor condition w a good ESN and the other was in good condition w a bad ESN Jul 20 15:24:15 would it be possible at this point to swap the com board w the good ESN into the phone in good condition? Jul 20 15:24:20 hello all. Jul 20 15:24:25 or have the tokens been lost? Jul 20 15:27:52 hape, submitted my first patch! woohoo Jul 20 15:29:25 your welcome, now you have to wait for the review Jul 20 15:29:54 yep Jul 20 16:50:43 Can you use a bad ESN for sprintfying? Jul 20 16:51:19 I'm not clear on which part you want that to fulfill Jul 20 16:51:39 ESN is bad on the Pre 2, but my Sprint Pre- is clean Jul 20 16:51:49 jackpot Jul 20 16:51:58 Abyssul: ESN is attached to the comms board, so yes Jul 20 16:52:05 I believe Jul 20 16:52:12 yes Jul 20 16:52:28 Awesome Jul 20 16:52:37 Now to find a bad ESN (or good) Pre 2 Jul 20 16:53:43 good luck with that Jul 20 16:53:46 I've been looking, there aren't any bad ESN pre2s on ebay Jul 20 16:54:01 or, haven't been Jul 20 16:54:13 There was a Pre2 (sprint) on Ebay just a minute ago for 170 bucks Jul 20 16:54:48 At that price I could just get a new Pre2 from HP for 230 bucks lol Jul 20 16:54:53 a sprint pre2? Jul 20 16:55:01 Yeah, thats what it said... Jul 20 16:55:03 must've been sprintified? Jul 20 16:55:09 Thats my guess Jul 20 16:55:10 sprint doesn't natively sell a pre2 Jul 20 16:56:38 either sprintified or incorrect listing :) Jul 20 16:56:52 Wouldnt matter to me. I'd switch the comm board either way Jul 20 16:57:11 i'm dying to liberate myself from my old hardware Jul 20 16:57:57 My Pre- is falling apart lol Jul 20 16:57:59 comm board switching works, i guess. only doing it a few times (across my own devices) i feel like it's just...janky Jul 20 16:58:09 and since Sprint isnt getting anything, Im looking for a Pre2 Jul 20 16:58:39 like some combination of not quite going together perfectly, and the belief that somehow it has '2 year old hardware in it' that makes is weaker. or something. Jul 20 16:59:01 dtzWill: janky is right :) I'll probably sprintify a pre2 for a while, until I can justify switching Jul 20 16:59:05 yeah i really just wnt to give sprint my money and go on with a sprint pre3 :/ Jul 20 16:59:40 I agree Jul 20 17:00:12 i can't decide if i'm more raged at the very fact that this situation is even possible Jul 20 17:00:34 heh Jul 20 17:00:46 I cant believe I still use my Pre- and stick with WebOS Jul 20 17:00:47 (what if your ISP told you you couldn't use a pc or certain other devices, b/c they don't approve them. or something) Jul 20 17:00:58 * halfhalo-work hearts gsm Jul 20 17:01:04 *since you didn't buy it through them, it didn't have a comcast logo on it or something Jul 20 17:01:08 it's just..crap Jul 20 17:01:21 can't tell if i'm more mad at that, or how sad i get when i actually look to switch Jul 20 17:01:28 and see the prices elsewhere, data caps :( Jul 20 17:01:33 not taht i really even use that much data? Jul 20 17:01:38 but that's kinda not the point Jul 20 17:01:46 mmm i got a developer pre 2 from palm Jul 20 17:01:50 thank god Jul 20 17:01:56 my pre- was getting hard to handle Jul 20 17:02:46 I almost did, then they canceled the program Jul 20 17:03:07 Stupid HP and charging tax through an online website... Jul 20 17:03:15 what's sad is that AT&T got smacked down for that crap decades ago with landline phones Jul 20 17:03:38 it's just worthless, who gives a damn where i bought the phone Jul 20 17:03:43 should be able to make my own if i'm so inclined Jul 20 17:03:43 -.- Jul 20 17:03:59 sigh. Jul 20 17:04:34 This dev coupon is useless to me. Anyone want it? lol Jul 20 17:06:38 anyone have any tips for ATT or so? Jul 20 17:06:49 had a nice sprint family plan, with corporate discounts, too :( hehe Jul 20 17:06:53 I like att Jul 20 17:09:26 dtzWill: I think I can get some amount of discount for being a student at UMN, but I think it's like 8%, if you come across anything let me know Jul 20 17:18:04 crazy, watching my pre2 compiling Jul 20 17:18:11 in ubuntu Jul 20 17:18:18 installing node v0.4.9 Jul 20 17:18:28 I smell my laptop becoming useless Jul 20 17:26:34 I hope Hp gets on the ball about the TP dev program Jul 20 17:30:13 rwhitby: Could I name something Expandah? :p Jul 20 17:30:17 (not webOS) Jul 20 17:32:13 I'm trying to create an app that .... -needs- in app payments... but no hint at it existing in mojo.. Jul 20 17:32:25 so i have to make my own with paypal Jul 20 17:33:04 with a f/t job, its becoming daunting Jul 20 17:33:43 why write in mojo? Jul 20 17:34:42 ? Jul 20 17:34:51 only the touchpad, which i can't afford, uses enyo Jul 20 17:34:57 therefore; i dont care about enyo. Jul 20 17:35:32 so I'm looking to use my own js libraries to create my app, with phonegap Jul 20 17:35:41 since palm has something up their ass Jul 20 17:36:03 and, lets be honest, mojo is the worst Jul 20 17:37:18 enyo, most likely, is going to be tablet only Jul 20 17:39:14 matbee: enyo is not going to be tablet only Jul 20 17:39:24 lol Jul 20 17:39:25 they've consistently said enyo is coming to phones Jul 20 17:39:26 right Jul 20 17:39:34 i dont believe it Jul 20 17:40:00 I... ok, well, don't believe it, but I don't know why they'd have separate SDK environments for phones and tablets Jul 20 17:40:02 and our pre 2's arent getting an update to match the pre 3 Jul 20 17:40:12 guaranteed Jul 20 17:40:42 Hp: all talk, no walk Jul 20 17:40:52 yeah Jul 20 17:41:17 dude, they're making an enyo ares, why would they keep separate SDKs? Jul 20 17:41:27 summatusmentis, it's happening, don't ask me. Jul 20 17:41:37 I'm very pessimistic about it Jul 20 17:41:47 just like the "upgrade path to 2.1" for legacy devices Jul 20 17:41:58 It's called "stfu" in business terms Jul 20 17:42:04 who am I supposed to ask then? what are you basing your pessimism on? Jul 20 17:42:24 Pre 2's were also being given away to developers simply to deplete non-hp branded stock Jul 20 17:42:34 right, so?? Jul 20 17:42:38 sorry, 1 ? Jul 20 17:43:23 look, nothing past the Veer/Pre3/Touchpad is getting anything. Also, Pre3/Veer only run webos 2.1/2.2/2.3, and they ALL run mojo Jul 20 17:43:23 they still tell new developers to start with enyo, because mojo is gonna stop being supported Jul 20 17:43:44 I had a pre 3 in my hand Jul 20 17:43:49 it was mojo. through and through. Jul 20 17:43:58 Patrick is running enyo on his pre2 on 2.1 right now Jul 20 17:44:04 yes its hacked on Jul 20 17:44:10 there's nothing stopping them from putting enyo on 2.x series Jul 20 17:44:12 * halfhalo-work points out the pre3 is not out yet, so that doesn't count Jul 20 17:44:31 enyo != 3.0 Jul 20 17:44:55 halfhalo-work, really? it was richard kerris's pre 3 Jul 20 17:45:04 I know it's hacked on, but there's nothing to suggest that it's not happening Jul 20 17:45:09 summatusmentis, actually webos 2.x == mojo.. I guarantee it Jul 20 17:45:21 that doesn't make any sense Jul 20 17:45:29 think in business terms Jul 20 17:45:36 3.0 uses enyo, but enyo doesn't need 3.0 Jul 20 17:45:37 why introduce a new sdk in the same major version? Jul 20 17:45:49 It would become a NEW major version Jul 20 17:45:57 so, in business terms, why keep 2 SDKs? Jul 20 17:46:13 what? Jul 20 17:46:20 why keep enyo and mojo Jul 20 17:46:21 Im saying the Pre 3/Veer are staying 2.x Jul 20 17:46:25 and the touchpad is 3.x Jul 20 17:46:32 2.x = mojo, 3.x = enyo Jul 20 17:46:44 yeah, so why would they keep mojo and enyo as current SDKs? Jul 20 17:46:49 that doesn't make any sense Jul 20 17:46:52 to you Jul 20 17:47:02 summatusmentis, why wouldn't they Jul 20 17:47:19 can you give me a good reason, along with supporting statements from HP to the contrary? Jul 20 17:47:35 Ruby said the phones aren't getting 3.0 Jul 20 17:47:41 this does not mean they're not getting enyo Jul 20 17:47:46 lol Jul 20 17:47:59 you have a lot of faith in a company that said the Pre-/+ are getting 2.x Jul 20 17:48:03 and then said the opposite Jul 20 17:48:17 Yeah, Im losing faith in HP/Palm. Jul 20 17:48:42 Here's what's gonna happen... you're going to have to keep spending money. Jul 20 17:49:14 I'm not leaving webOS any time soon, but I refuse to even start thinking of developing in enyo Jul 20 17:49:17 summatusmentis, mave you read ANY statements that are any kind of official at all stating that they are getting enyo? Jul 20 17:49:18 * halfhalo-work has faith in a company in which he is currently sitting in. he doesn't count. Jul 20 17:49:35 cryptk: the entire HP website indicates veer and pre3 are getting enyo Jul 20 17:49:38 halfhalo-work, needs to STFU and get to work making me some cool toys Jul 20 17:49:43 LOL Jul 20 17:49:53 summatusmentis, then it would seem they are getting it then Jul 20 17:50:01 right Jul 20 17:50:02 if HP says they are, then why is there argument about it? Jul 20 17:50:17 because matbee is being pessmisitic Jul 20 17:50:22 pessimistic Jul 20 17:50:40 they're not getting enyo Jul 20 17:50:43 don't kid yourself Jul 20 17:50:57 right now they just want to sell and not work on the actual OS Jul 20 17:51:25 because without sales #'s, they can't justify working on the system Jul 20 17:51:37 I don't think there's any argument that veer/pre3 are getting enyo Jul 20 17:51:55 I also don't think there's any argument that veer/pre3 aren't getting 3.0 Jul 20 17:52:07 heh Jul 20 17:52:10 * matbee waits Jul 20 17:52:20 If i'm wrong, I'll give you a hug Jul 20 17:52:28 If I'm right, I'm coming here to gloat Jul 20 17:52:51 Im just waiting for the touchpad sales to tank, and so they become cheap Jul 20 17:53:00 I think we're gonna have to wait until they get their current batch of products out the door (which means at least pre3, maybe something else) Jul 20 17:53:14 then I think we'll see updates that allow enyo (perhaps coinciding with pre3 launch) Jul 20 17:53:56 don't bet on it Jul 20 17:53:57 srsly Jul 20 17:54:35 If I were you, I'd use phonegap and develop my own system Jul 20 17:55:01 You don't have to wait if you use phonegap Jul 20 17:55:38 I'm not really an active dev anyway, but you seem awfully sure without providing any real support Jul 20 17:56:10 what? Jul 20 17:56:15 no, youre sure without the support Jul 20 17:56:24 I'm highly doubtful from all of this hear-say Jul 20 17:56:36 what hearsay? it says on the HP website they're getting enyo Jul 20 17:56:49 Ruby said in his recent interview they're not getting 3.0 Jul 20 17:57:18 (soon) Jul 20 17:57:21 they've said mojo is EOL Jul 20 17:57:31 where? Jul 20 17:57:48 im looking at their website Jul 20 17:57:50 the entire dev site says "current SDK is enyo" Jul 20 17:57:53 no mention of enyo Jul 20 17:58:09 there are no links to mojo SDKs Jul 20 17:58:18 Mojo is waning out and Enyo is taking it's place. Jul 20 17:58:31 ... Jul 20 17:58:35 right Jul 20 17:59:05 I'd love to see it happen Jul 20 17:59:21 but with their track record, nuh-uh ain't nuttin' happenin' Jul 20 17:59:35 their track record? one change of plans? Jul 20 17:59:36 "stay tuned" Jul 20 17:59:38 matbee, I do want to point out that it is a new company now Jul 20 17:59:43 this Jul 20 17:59:47 and either way... you guys are boring and depressing Jul 20 17:59:50 LOL Jul 20 17:59:54 can you find something more interesting to banter on about Jul 20 18:00:02 Lion is out today :-P Jul 20 18:00:09 *yawn* Jul 20 18:00:10 something not related to an evil company Jul 20 18:00:22 cryptk: I joined this new anarcho-collective Jul 20 18:00:33 still boring Jul 20 18:00:38 (not true, but non-evil company?) Jul 20 18:00:46 you joined hp? Jul 20 18:01:02 heh, I wish Jul 20 18:01:06 ah Jul 20 18:01:17 their toronto office is 10 seconds away from me Jul 20 18:01:21 no no, my point was, I'm not sure I believe non-evil companies exist Jul 20 18:03:02 Google :p Jul 20 18:03:24 too bad android sucks Jul 20 18:04:07 Saw my first TP ads in a online video on the 17th. I was like "that was fast..." Jul 20 18:05:09 its virtually non existant in canada Jul 20 18:05:39 it doesnt matter, kindle and the movie store are only available in the USA Jul 20 18:05:43 heh. Jul 20 18:06:05 (for now) Jul 20 18:08:01 right.. Jul 20 18:08:01 Abyssul: I'd been seeing a couple on Comdedy Central before Jul 20 18:08:20 you don't neglect a major launch country Jul 20 18:08:37 Why Russell Brand ads... we needs something a little Apple-like Jul 20 18:08:54 if you're going to do that, neglect other countries, atleast pay netflix to make an app Jul 20 18:11:37 matbee, could you take your negativity elsewhere Jul 20 18:11:42 try /join #/dev/null Jul 20 18:11:44 haha Jul 20 18:11:48 you are still boring me... Jul 20 18:12:00 lol Jul 20 18:12:30 you are stating things that we all know... and we have already had a statement that the movie store is going to other countries Jul 20 18:12:50 kindle may take more time because it uses OpenSSL and there are government export restrictions on encryption materials Jul 20 18:13:43 I wish companies would start treating silly laws like that, the way that google opened their music store, do it anyway. :P Jul 20 18:14:24 google gets away with it because it is based on a website... it is different when you are distributing an application Jul 20 18:14:44 and it isn't impossible to get the app out there... it just takes a little more time to get the paperwork straight Jul 20 18:15:12 matbee, you cannot have been serious when you just requested that companies starting blatantly committing federal offenses... Jul 20 18:16:59 no, merely just want a bombardment of 'offenses' from a number of companies, to hopefully wake up the courts Jul 20 18:17:17 matbee, do you know why encryption export laws are in place Jul 20 18:17:44 because I do... and you are making yourself look silly Jul 20 18:19:07 well, despite the obvious where they want to control the level of anonymity and level of encryption Jul 20 18:19:23 trust me... there is more to it than that Jul 20 18:19:43 it isn't about having control purely for the sake of "look what we can do" Jul 20 18:19:54 Well, it's a lot of espionage control Jul 20 18:20:02 but political discussions do not belong in this channel, so I am going to stop talking Jul 20 19:18:09 well that was a boring discussion Jul 20 19:20:22 haha Jul 20 19:24:38 Puffy_tp: wirc bug (or so it seems) Jul 20 19:24:58 when I close wIRC without disconnecting first, it won't re-connect Jul 20 19:25:14 I have to kill it with JStop to fix it Jul 20 19:25:59 that doesn't happen all the time Jul 20 19:26:10 it depends on whether the plugin crashes or not Jul 20 19:26:43 it happens almost every time for me Jul 20 19:28:58 that's what causes a lot of the no reconnects too Jul 20 19:29:50 after I close Jul 20 19:30:01 I re-open it (to reconnect) and it shows as connected Jul 20 19:32:06 type "ps -aux" (or the like) to see if the plugin crashed or not Jul 20 19:32:28 next time it happens I will Jul 20 19:32:34 pc-world: thx for the responses Jul 20 19:33:45 no problem Jul 20 19:43:06 PatrickC: put it on redmine Jul 20 19:44:11 unfortunately, I haven't been able to get webos to give me a coredump. I enabled core dumps, and I can see all the palm processes giving usable crashdumps, but the wirc ones are always 0 bytes. and I checked the jail config and even tried hardcoding a value other than infinite (in case infinite actually parsed to 0) to no avail Jul 20 19:45:14 dwc-: have had problems to get logs ("mincore" dumps) of PDK apps since webOS 2.0 as well Jul 20 20:57:18 anyone using the private browsing patch on 2.1.0? (2.1.0-17) ... the description looks updated, but the patch file doesn't appear to have those additional changes in it Jul 20 21:13:25 Dead! Jul 20 21:20:50 Anyone noticed significant slowdown when performing rapid touch inputs in the PDK for performance critical apps? Jul 20 21:21:01 oops, wrong channel Jul 20 21:38:20 Hi all :) Jul 20 21:39:46 if(all.isEmpty()){ Jul 20 21:40:10 return "Welp.... Thanks anyways guys"; Jul 20 21:40:32 Pokerking98: yes? Jul 20 21:40:39 Jack87: huh? haha Jul 20 21:41:54 PatrickC, where is that link you posted yesterday for pc-world's method? Jul 20 21:41:59 I was more hoping I would come here and find a lively discussion.... Unless I am mistaken this seems to be a lil more serious then that. Jul 20 21:42:14 ka6sox: I didn't post it Jul 20 21:42:19 pc-world did Jul 20 21:42:26 lemme check my history for it Jul 20 21:42:43 PatrickC, you pointed me to it. Jul 20 21:42:55 pc-world pointed me to it Jul 20 21:43:11 lol, well played sir Jul 20 21:43:46 Has anyone here managed to get an IDE on their touchpad? Jul 20 21:44:38 Pokerking98, I think someone said they tried or did succeed in getting eclipse in a chroot...I could be wrong about that. Jul 20 21:45:04 :O Were you the one who responded to my thread? Jul 20 21:45:20 on precentral Jul 20 21:45:56 ka6sox: I believe they also got Ares working Jul 20 21:46:17 PatrickC, ddi not know that....kewl. Jul 20 21:46:24 yep Jul 20 21:46:29 I believe halfhalo-work did it Jul 20 21:46:34 ka6sox: http://forums.precentral.net/webos-internals/240926-x-server-pre-14.html#post3036872 Jul 20 21:47:20 Pokerking98, not me Jul 20 21:47:29 I rarely post on P|C Jul 20 21:47:31 Right. Well thanks for the help Jul 20 21:47:31 NuttyBunny!! Jul 20 21:47:45 Yo! :D Jul 20 21:47:50 lol Jul 20 21:48:01 http://awesomeapps.8tar.com/help :D Jul 20 21:48:16 ~seen chuqui Jul 20 21:48:27 mmm... Jul 20 21:48:32 chuqui <~chuqui@palm-64-28-152-131.palm.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 21d 5h 47m 57s ago, saying: 'cryptk: hey!'. Jul 20 21:49:19 21d lol Jul 20 21:49:27 mmm... no, that won't work ;) I bet he lurks in #webos most of the time.. hehehe Jul 20 21:49:33 infobot: you are wrong Jul 20 21:49:33 I think you lost me on that one, PatrickC Jul 20 21:49:39 hahaha Jul 20 21:50:14 hahahaha Jul 20 21:50:58 infobot: join #webos Jul 21 00:00:57 it cost 150 for one app on the app catalog so how much is it on preware and or how do ii put an app on preware Jul 21 00:02:08 jamcar, what are you asking? Jul 21 00:02:42 how would i put an app on preware so other people can download it Jul 21 00:04:06 jamcar: submit it to the PreCentral app gallery Jul 21 00:04:19 k Jul 21 00:04:30 jamcar: BTW, HP app catalog is free. no charges. Jul 21 00:04:50 so I'm not sure where your $150 figure is coming from. Jul 21 00:04:58 cool even on webOS 1.4.5 Jul 21 00:05:21 indeed it is Jul 21 00:05:24 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/207460-what-do-you-think-150-put-app-app-catalog.html Jul 21 00:06:02 you might like to use https://developer.palm.com/ as your reference, rather than a forum site with posts from 2009. Jul 21 00:15:54 rwhitby: I believe I've seen stuff on developer.palm.com that still cite the old costs Jul 21 00:16:05 like they missed a couple of pages Jul 21 00:19:57 (e.g. https://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_register&view=register&info) Jul 21 00:53:54 how goe sit **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jul 21 02:59:56 2011