**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 01 02:59:57 2011
Aug 01 03:20:32 <Abyssul> Just to clarify. The Pre2 kernels do not show up in Preware when the testing feeds are turned off.
Aug 01 03:20:41 <Abyssul> (Sprint Pre2 here)
Aug 01 03:22:51 <rwhitby> Abyssul: correct, there are no stable Pre 2 overclocking kernels.
Aug 01 03:23:32 <kill_dano> is f15 just for TP or is it also for pre2?
Aug 01 03:23:38 <rwhitby> Since there has not been enough public testing of kernels in the testing feed to determine stability.
Aug 01 03:24:06 <rwhitby> F15 is touchpad at the moment
Aug 01 03:24:39 <kill_dano> thnx. got it on my tp. runs nice
Aug 01 03:32:20 <Abyssul> rwhitby, thanks for the clarification. I was given the impression from others that there were current stable kernels.
Aug 01 03:32:47 <gQuigs> I get "Messages can no longer be sent or received in this conversation" which seems common, the uncommon part is that this is for all conversations, even ones i've tried starting after upgrading to WebOS 2.1
Aug 01 03:33:09 <gQuigs> it appears I may have "lost" my SMS account if that is possible
Aug 01 03:33:25 <MactavishF> hi
Aug 01 03:33:56 <Abyssul> gQuigs, very unusual
Aug 01 03:34:23 <MactavishF> wow
Aug 01 03:34:42 <gQuigs> Most of the time I can send messages from the contacts screen, and then it immediately switches to not being able to send
Aug 01 03:34:52 <gQuigs> the message gets sent fine, and I can recieve messages
Aug 01 03:35:02 <gQuigs> but only one at a time :)
Aug 01 03:35:02 <MactavishF> I come here for a solution to refresh the dns...
Aug 01 03:35:25 <MactavishF> gQuigs & Abyssul, what are you talking?
Aug 01 03:35:56 <gQuigs> (11:32:18 PM) gQuigs: I get "Messages can no longer be sent or received in this conversation" which seems common, the uncommon part is that this is for all conversations, even ones i've tried starting after upgrading to WebOS 2.1
Aug 01 03:35:56 <gQuigs> (11:32:40 PM) gQuigs: it appears I may have "lost" my SMS account if that is possible
Aug 01 03:37:18 <MactavishF> Ahh
Aug 01 03:37:19 <MactavishF> I got it.
Aug 01 03:37:41 <MactavishF> Messaages comes from Nokia or some other productors's phones will cause this
Aug 01 03:38:27 <gQuigs> I'm mostly chatting with a WeboS 1.4.5 phone...
Aug 01 03:38:45 <MactavishF> I like 2.1 better
Aug 01 03:38:58 <MactavishF> but if you get this problem, try this: fixsms
Aug 01 03:39:22 <MactavishF> the problem is caused by the character sets
Aug 01 03:39:47 <MactavishF> that Nokia or some other one uses
Aug 01 03:40:17 <gQuigs> err.. I am chatting between webos 2.1 (my phone) and another phone that has webos 1.4.5
Aug 01 03:40:37 <gQuigs> just type fixsms on the phone?
Aug 01 03:40:47 <navinag> ahmmm....where/how do I see the fuse values to determine if my touchpad is actually capable of running @ 1.5ghz
Aug 01 03:40:50 <MactavishF> nope
Aug 01 03:41:13 <MactavishF> gQuigs, search it in the preware
Aug 01 03:41:22 <gQuigs> oh,,, ok thanks!
Aug 01 03:41:27 <MactavishF> if you can't, i'll upload it to my site
Aug 01 03:41:40 <MactavishF> wait me for a while~
Aug 01 03:43:01 <MactavishF> oh sorry gQuigs
Aug 01 03:43:07 <MactavishF> wrong name...
Aug 01 03:43:15 <MactavishF> smsfix is the correct one.
Aug 01 03:45:03 <MactavishF> navinag , maybe you should try this: govnah
Aug 01 03:45:40 <navinag> I don't think govnah gives that information....
Aug 01 03:45:58 <navinag> at least not that I am aware of
Aug 01 03:46:02 <MactavishF> ahh, I mean, test it by your self.
Aug 01 03:46:18 <MactavishF> Every CPU is different
Aug 01 03:46:40 <navinag> yes I could do that....but would be nice to know how to find out instead of trial and error
Aug 01 03:46:45 <MactavishF> Get a cool kernel from the preware, and try it carefully
Aug 01 03:46:54 <MactavishF> ...
Aug 01 03:47:01 <navinag> I did...I am running uberkernel
Aug 01 03:47:04 <MactavishF> Sorry, maybe none could answer you ...
Aug 01 03:47:10 <gQuigs> what feed should fix sms be in, the beta one?
Aug 01 03:47:11 <MactavishF> then?
Aug 01 03:47:33 <MactavishF> sorry gQquigs
Aug 01 03:47:36 <MactavishF> wait a minute
Aug 01 03:47:39 <gQuigs> sure
Aug 01 03:47:41 <MactavishF> here is it, download it
Aug 01 03:47:51 <navinag> that works fine @ 1ghz but does not have the ability to go higher..
Aug 01 03:47:53 <MactavishF> http://macf.info/smsfix.ipk
Aug 01 03:48:18 <navinag> I saw this on twitter from webos internals
Aug 01 03:48:28 <MactavishF> navinag, if the kernel doesn't support a higher frequent,  you can't...
Aug 01 03:48:43 <gQuigs> thanks MactavishF
Aug 01 03:48:50 <navinag> webosinternals: The 1.5 GHz operating point code is already in the stock TouchPad kernel source, simply disabled based on CPU speed bin fuse value settings.
Aug 01 03:48:58 <MactavishF> ha, just a little helping hand
Aug 01 03:49:22 <Abyssul> Reminds me how the stock kernel in the Pre allowed for 600 natively
Aug 01 03:49:28 <MactavishF> Wow, maybe you have to have some change in the kernel
Aug 01 03:49:28 <navinag> so hence there has to be a way to access the fuse values...
Aug 01 03:49:30 <Abyssul> Just kind've disabled
Aug 01 03:51:08 <navinag> I was talking about the F15C kernel that will run at 1.5 ghz if the devices is capable of it
Aug 01 03:51:09 <MactavishF> gQuigs, where are you from?
Aug 01 03:51:19 <gQuigs> NJ, US
Aug 01 03:51:49 <MactavishF> Understood... The sms error usually happens in China
Aug 01 03:52:42 <gQuigs> yea... I just noticed something odder..  I don't have any Accounts listed under Messaging -> Preferences & Accounts
Aug 01 03:52:44 <MactavishF> navinag I still can not get you. You just wanna know whether your device is capable of it or not ,yea?
Aug 01 03:53:01 <gQuigs> another palm has a phone number and Google Talk
Aug 01 03:53:08 <MactavishF> gQuigs, that's usually.
Aug 01 03:53:20 <MactavishF> I only have my gtalk account
Aug 01 03:53:24 <navinag> yes....
Aug 01 03:53:51 <MactavishF> So don't worry about it
Aug 01 03:54:01 <rwhitby> navinag: we just comment out the code which checks the fuse values
Aug 01 03:54:21 <navinag> I would rather know than try and then it freezes up and then have to memboot and possibly have to doctor the device
Aug 01 03:54:56 <MactavishF> doctor the device? you mean re-flash the rom?
Aug 01 03:55:15 <scoutcamper> navinag, you can extract the uImage from the f15c ipk
Aug 01 03:55:20 <scoutcamper> then memboot
Aug 01 03:55:58 <navinag> rwhitby: does that mean that we can't see those values if the code become uncommented
Aug 01 03:56:21 <MactavishF> well, does any one know how to refresh the dns?
Aug 01 03:56:28 <MactavishF> I really crapped on it.
Aug 01 03:56:43 <scoutcamper> MactavishF, "refresh the DNS" means nothing without context
Aug 01 03:56:57 <rwhitby> navinag: see which values?
Aug 01 03:57:35 <MactavishF> err, scoutcamper, I mean, I uses the openvpn to surf youtube or twitter, ...etc
Aug 01 03:57:50 <MactavishF> in my country it blocks these sites.
Aug 01 03:58:06 <scoutcamper> ok
Aug 01 03:58:12 <MactavishF> and it polutes the dns
Aug 01 03:58:17 <navinag> rwhitby: the CUP is capbable at running at some max feq...the fuse settings will typically indicate what that max value is.
Aug 01 03:58:33 <MactavishF> so even i am connected to the openvpn, i still can't visit these sites.
Aug 01 03:58:43 <rwhitby> navinag: fuse settings indicate the speed bin, yes.
Aug 01 03:58:59 <scoutcamper> MactavishF, id say a doctor
Aug 01 03:59:07 <gQuigs> MactavishF: do you use your ISPs DNS?
Aug 01 03:59:17 <MactavishF> nope. i use google dns
Aug 01 03:59:23 <navinag> rwhitby: so we should be able to read what is the max Fred that's in the fuse settings?
Aug 01 03:59:39 <navinag> rwhitby: freq
Aug 01 03:59:43 <MactavishF> Fuck chinese Great FireWall
Aug 01 03:59:43 <rwhitby> navinag: for the wifi touchpad, that is 1.2GHz, yes.
Aug 01 04:00:44 <rwhitby> navinag: the speed bin fuses just have an integer bin value (which seems to be '1' for the wifi touchpad) - it does not actually specify a frequency
Aug 01 04:01:45 <navinag> rwitby:  ahhhhhhhh........then some other code goes and uses wife touchpad and sets the frequency...
Aug 01 04:02:06 <rwhitby> yes, that is the code we have commented out, allowing the max to always be 1.5
Aug 01 04:02:33 <rwhitby> and then I just created uberkernel which boots at 1.2G by default, and can be overclocked safely to 1.5 if desired.
Aug 01 04:03:02 <navinag> was the uberkernel updated to do that?
Aug 01 04:03:19 <navinag> last I checked....it only did 1ghz
Aug 01 04:03:43 <rwhitby> which uberkernel are you referring to?
Aug 01 04:04:38 <navinag> rwhitby:  TP Uberkernel
Aug 01 04:06:25 <rwhitby> navinag: why would the TP UberKernel be clocked at 1G when the stock freq is 1.2G ?
Aug 01 04:06:55 <navinag> rwhitby:  so we can't truly know by any bin fuse settings in the CUP is capable of running @ 1.fghz....then its trial an error.  I understand the name of the game...but was just trying to figure out if there was a way to assess the CUP capability before i
Aug 01 04:06:55 <navinag> nstalling the 1.5 ghz settings
Aug 01 04:07:50 <navinag> rwhitby: I meant 1.2ghz
Aug 01 04:07:55 <rwhitby> navinag: that's why I'm doing UberKernel. It boots at 1.2GHz and you use a Govnah profile to overclock. If it fails, it boots at 1.2 GHz again after the failure.
Aug 01 04:08:09 <scoutcamper> navinag, or memboot f15c
Aug 01 04:08:44 <Abyssul> Anyone have any clue why my pre- wont charge even though the charging icon pops up.
Aug 01 04:08:45 <navinag> rwhitby: is that version of Uberkernel currently available?
Aug 01 04:08:52 <rwhitby> navinag: it's being built right now
Aug 01 04:09:01 <navinag> ahhhhhh....ok
Aug 01 04:09:28 * rwhitby bbl
Aug 01 04:09:28 <navinag> rwhitby: it sounded like it was already in the feeds
Aug 01 04:09:56 <navinag> rwhitby: thanks for the clarification
Aug 01 04:10:12 <MactavishF> does anyone how nscd work in the webos?
Aug 01 04:10:50 <MactavishF> okay
Aug 01 04:10:54 <MactavishF> I got it.
Aug 01 04:16:56 <gQuigs> I can't seem to transfer smsfix..
Aug 01 04:18:53 <flare576> greetings all :)  I have a physically damaged pre I'm trying to get some data from.  USB mode isn't coming up, so I'm trying to get FTP working on it.  I installed OpenSSH SFTP (and dependencies) from Preware and WGET an "authorized_key" file i created on the PC, but it doesn't look like OpenSSH is running... How can I tell if it has started?
Aug 01 04:19:31 <flare576> I also have Terminal on the Pre (which is how I did the wget)
Aug 01 04:20:02 <ka6sox> flare576, define "damaged"
Aug 01 04:20:58 <flare576> the screen portion of the pre has come disconnected from the metal plate.  The ribbon cable came disconnected, but I've re-attached it.  I'm guessing some damage was done to the cable because the phone no longer recognizes that  USB cable is plugged in (just charges)
Aug 01 04:21:42 <ka6sox> can you ssh into it?
Aug 01 04:21:56 <flare576> nope
Aug 01 04:22:23 <ka6sox> is wifi on?
Aug 01 04:22:28 <ka6sox> is it connected?
Aug 01 04:22:37 <flare576> yes and yes
Aug 01 04:22:48 <ka6sox> and you know the IP address of the pre?
Aug 01 04:22:59 <flare576> I do
Aug 01 04:23:17 <flare576> ah ha! uninstalling and reinstalling
Aug 01 04:23:25 <flare576> I'm in
Aug 01 04:23:35 <ka6sox> okay GL getting what you need :D
Aug 01 04:26:42 <gQuigs> can anyone check something for me on their device?  namely using Impostah -> Accounts -> Change account to SIM -> Show Account ->  capabilityProviders -> how much do you have listed there?
Aug 01 04:26:43 <gQuigs> thanks!
Aug 01 04:27:06 <gQuigs> (preferably a working WebOS 2.1 on a palm pre plus, but close enough is fine :)
Aug 01 04:27:15 <flare576> <-- 1.4.5 pre still :(
Aug 01 04:28:43 <gQuigs> yay.. found the issue, (checked using the emulator), I don't have it listed under CapabilityProviders (sms that is)
Aug 01 04:29:18 <gQuigs> can I edit that somehow?
Aug 01 04:30:32 <MactavishF> well
Aug 01 04:30:41 <MactavishF> gQuigs, what's your device?
Aug 01 04:30:50 <gQuigs> palm pre plus
Aug 01 04:31:05 <MactavishF> So why don't you upgrade to web os 2.1?
Aug 01 04:31:22 <gQuigs> I am on 2.1, thats where the problem started
Aug 01 04:31:26 <MactavishF> I'm a 3P user too
Aug 01 04:31:29 <MactavishF> err
Aug 01 04:31:32 <MactavishF> wait a minute
Aug 01 04:31:39 <MactavishF> what's the problem?
Aug 01 04:32:05 <gQuigs> I can' send text messages from the messaging app
Aug 01 04:32:28 <MactavishF> you can't send text messages, right?
Aug 01 04:32:42 <MactavishF> have you registered your palm profile?
Aug 01 04:33:02 <gQuigs> is that the same as activation?
Aug 01 04:33:10 <MactavishF> yes
Aug 01 04:33:30 <MactavishF> the gesture tutorial
Aug 01 04:33:38 <gQuigs> I did do that, but through Impostah
Aug 01 04:33:41 <MactavishF> have you finished it or you  just skipped?
Aug 01 04:33:54 <MactavishF> ohh, it's not good.
Aug 01 04:33:55 <gQuigs> the gesture tutorial... never done that
Aug 01 04:34:17 <MactavishF> so, you meant that you are not using an official rom?
Aug 01 04:34:34 <MactavishF> is your phone branded? such as AT&T?
Aug 01 04:34:40 <gQuigs> yup AT&T
Aug 01 04:34:52 <MactavishF> Great, we are the same.
Aug 01 04:35:10 <gQuigs> should I do the gesture tutorial?
Aug 01 04:35:15 <MactavishF> (Even I'm in China in fact)
Aug 01 04:35:16 <MactavishF> well
Aug 01 04:35:22 <MactavishF> open your launcher
Aug 01 04:35:30 <MactavishF> swipe to the righteset
Aug 01 04:35:35 <gQuigs> ok
Aug 01 04:35:42 <MactavishF> can you find it?
Aug 01 04:35:48 <scoutcamper> gQuigs, what settings did you use to make your 2.1 doctor? has this problem existed since day 1 of 2.1?
Aug 01 04:35:50 <MactavishF> and what did you get?
Aug 01 04:35:52 <gQuigs> yup
Aug 01 04:36:08 <gQuigs> MactavishF: I can begin the tutorial
Aug 01 04:36:25 <MactavishF> Great. Where did you download your rom?
Aug 01 04:36:28 <gQuigs> scoutcamper: I used to be able to send one message at a time, but just from the contacts page, that no longer works
Aug 01 04:36:53 <scoutcamper> gQuigs, are you using this device on ATT?
Aug 01 04:36:55 <gQuigs> MactavishF: followed the standard webos-internals for the device
Aug 01 04:37:02 <gQuigs> scoutcamper: yup
Aug 01 04:37:30 <scoutcamper> gQuigs, what command did you use to make this doctor? using the makefile or scripts?
Aug 01 04:37:31 <MactavishF> OH, I didn't remember that the ATT have 2.1 ROMS officially.
Aug 01 04:37:55 <MactavishF> gQuigs seems just downloaded a doctor, scoutcamper
Aug 01 04:38:29 <scoutcamper> MactavishF, no, 2.1 doctor for ATT is not distributed by WOSI
Aug 01 04:39:11 <gQuigs> I followed this page: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS_2_Upgrade  ...
Aug 01 04:40:24 <MactavishF> Ha, I used another ROM, and changed the jar file a little
Aug 01 04:40:41 <MactavishF> not made by my self. just changed by myself
Aug 01 04:40:50 <scoutcamper> gQuigs,  did you use the makefile? or the meta-scripts
Aug 01 04:41:21 <gQuigs> makefile.... I skipped first run was my only change I think... checking...
Aug 01 04:41:57 <MactavishF> ...
Aug 01 04:42:42 <gQuigs> yea.. I turned on BYPASS_FIRST_USE_APP  = 1
Aug 01 04:42:53 <scoutcamper> ok
Aug 01 04:43:20 <scoutcamper> then, what command?
Aug 01 04:43:24 <scoutcamper> make device=pre?
Aug 01 04:44:15 <gQuigs> I did that in the Makefile, DEVICE = preplus, and CARRIER = att
Aug 01 04:44:23 <gQuigs> and then did 'make all'
Aug 01 04:45:39 <scoutcamper> ok
Aug 01 04:45:48 <scoutcamper> gQuigs, what was your base 2.1 doctor?
Aug 01 04:46:47 <gQuigs> hmm.. originally I did just DEVICE = preplus, and CARRIER = att, no BYPASS anything
Aug 01 04:46:52 <scoutcamper> ok
Aug 01 04:47:13 <gQuigs> but after it didn't work correctly, I went back to 1.4.5, used it for a bit, then deleted my palm profile and tried again with the BYPASS
Aug 01 04:48:08 <gQuigs> I had figured I would try it first without deleting my palm profile, since it said it sometimes would work...
Aug 01 04:49:25 <scoutcamper> ok
Aug 01 05:01:01 <gQuigs> sorry I had it backwards
Aug 01 05:01:23 <gQuigs> you can only send new messages from the message app, click new thread, then type contact and new message
Aug 01 05:01:24 <MactavishF> Well
Aug 01 05:01:38 <gQuigs> then after it sends it locks it
Aug 01 05:01:46 <MactavishF> gQuigs, why don't you try a pre-made doctor?
Aug 01 05:02:10 <MactavishF> is that very important to make it by your self?
Aug 01 05:02:13 <gQuigs> MactavishF: it didn't work, I could get on wireless or 3g to activate it
Aug 01 05:02:34 <gQuigs> the messaging app gives the following errors:
Aug 01 05:02:34 <gQuigs> [20110801-01:00:16.581481] error: ++++++ChatviewAssistant::initialize
Aug 01 05:02:34 <gQuigs> [20110801-01:00:17.533660] error: Error, the transport list is empty.
Aug 01 05:02:34 <gQuigs> [20110801-01:00:17.547637] error: Account template doesn't exist so locking this chatthread
Aug 01 05:02:39 <MactavishF> Nope, some roms can
Aug 01 05:02:49 <MactavishF> ......?
Aug 01 05:03:40 <ka6sox> what are roms?
Aug 01 05:03:59 <MactavishF> I got my rom from a chinese website
Aug 01 05:04:03 <gQuigs> MactavishF: aren't all of the scripts just running the same makefile with different options?
Aug 01 05:04:08 <MactavishF> and just edited it a little
Aug 01 05:04:29 <MactavishF> sorry, I'm not a professional on makefile
Aug 01 05:05:17 <MactavishF> But I'm really sure that there's a rom can work correctly, including activate the phone.
Aug 01 05:05:41 <Abyssul> Agh, what doctor do I use on my Pre- GSM....
Aug 01 05:06:58 <ka6sox> MactavishF, is a "rom" a "doctor" that has been reworked and posted someplace to download?
Aug 01 05:07:12 <gQuigs> hmm.. I guess I'll look for that tomorrow..  if anyone has any other ideas, I'd love to hear them (won't be responding but will be appreciative)
Aug 01 05:07:13 <MactavishF> err
Aug 01 05:07:18 <MactavishF> wait a minute
Aug 01 05:07:23 <Abyssul> We don't usually use the word ROM.
Aug 01 05:07:24 <scoutcamper> ka6sox, Rom almost always means illegal
Aug 01 05:07:34 <MactavishF> First, the ROM I provided is not modified... by me.
Aug 01 05:07:38 <gQuigs> (btw, I got the error via palm-log -d usb -f com.palm.app.messaging)
Aug 01 05:07:39 <MactavishF> then
Aug 01 05:07:46 <Abyssul> Meta-doctor .jar's arn't meant for distribution
Aug 01 05:07:46 <MactavishF> I can teach you how to modify it.
Aug 01 05:08:09 <MactavishF> ka6sox , are you using a palm pre plus?
Aug 01 05:08:22 <scoutcamper> MactavishF, webos-internals doesnt support Illegal files/downloads
Aug 01 05:08:44 <MactavishF> i don't think that it's illegal
Aug 01 05:09:09 <Abyssul> (It is)
Aug 01 05:09:12 <ka6sox> MactavishF, no, I do not have one of those.
Aug 01 05:09:46 <MactavishF> err, why illegal?
Aug 01 05:09:59 <Abyssul> Doctor files are property of Palm/HP
Aug 01 05:10:12 <Abyssul> Not meant for distribution outside of their servers
Aug 01 05:10:18 <MactavishF> okay...
Aug 01 05:10:29 <Abyssul> Thats why we have patches and not modified files
Aug 01 05:11:06 <MactavishF> even it's opensource?
Aug 01 05:11:15 <MactavishF> even if it's opensource?
Aug 01 05:11:33 <MactavishF> wow, maybe I should ask a lawyer...
Aug 01 05:11:36 <Abyssul> I dont know the exact technical aspects of it all, but its the basic jist
Aug 01 05:13:37 <summatusmentis> IANAL, but as I understand it, only palm/HP has the rights to redistribute the doctors, because they own the copyright on the code included within
Aug 01 05:14:16 <summatusmentis> so redistributing them, even modified, even if the modification is opensource, is copyright infringement at best
Aug 01 05:14:18 <Abyssul> rwhitby, what configuration would you suggest for a GSM Pre - that was preveously a Sprint Pre infused with a Pre2 Comm board. I just want to be able to install a fresh 1.4.5 doctor with wifi only.
Aug 01 05:14:28 <MactavishF> so, what we can do legally is providing patches? and use meta-doctor to build a doctor?
Aug 01 05:14:36 <Abyssul> Yep
Aug 01 05:14:46 <summatusmentis> correct
Aug 01 05:14:49 <Abyssul> Only for personal use
Aug 01 05:14:53 <MactavishF> Got it.
Aug 01 05:14:53 <summatusmentis> correct
Aug 01 05:15:04 <MactavishF> Thank you very much.
Aug 01 05:15:20 <Abyssul> Although, it gets ambiguous when it comes to image files :p
Aug 01 05:15:33 <summatusmentis> I'm not really sure it does
Aug 01 05:15:36 <MactavishF> If someone sell the roms, he's illegal, right?
Aug 01 05:15:43 <Abyssul> Highly^
Aug 01 05:15:55 <MactavishF> OMG, I must aware my friends....
Aug 01 05:16:06 <Abyssul> I never knew people sold them...
Aug 01 05:16:10 <Abyssul> Sounds stupid
Aug 01 05:16:21 <summatusmentis> I'm not sure why people would buy them
Aug 01 05:20:21 <MactavishF> Nope, in Chinese Forumes,
Aug 01 05:20:30 <MactavishF> it sells very well
Aug 01 05:20:51 <Abyssul> Makes no sense...
Aug 01 05:20:53 <MactavishF> with many built-in packages, people don't need to download anymore
Aug 01 05:21:03 <Abyssul> Pre2 is a lot heftier than the Pre... Just noticed
Aug 01 05:22:35 <MactavishF> Pre3 is a lot heftier than the Pre2
Aug 01 05:22:40 <MactavishF> ...Just noticed
Aug 01 05:23:25 <Abyssul> You have a pre3?
Aug 01 05:23:35 <MactavishF> Nope
Aug 01 05:23:43 <MactavishF> Just a fantasy
Aug 01 05:23:53 <Abyssul> You'd think it might be lighter
Aug 01 05:24:38 <MactavishF> Well, the 3P's weight is very good for me I think.
Aug 01 05:25:08 <Abyssul> 135 (pre) vs 145 (pre2) in grams
Aug 01 05:25:33 <MactavishF> .......:-O
Aug 01 05:26:01 <Abyssul> They took down the Pre3 specs sheet so I cant look it up
Aug 01 05:26:46 <Abyssul> here we go, 156 grams
Aug 01 05:27:03 <MactavishF> .......even heavier?
Aug 01 05:29:17 <ziplock503> how much Pre?
Aug 01 05:29:23 <ziplock503> pre2
Aug 01 05:29:39 <Abyssul> What?
Aug 01 05:29:46 <MactavishF> how to make the openvpn to push dns to the pre?
Aug 01 05:29:53 <ziplock503> how many grams pre2
Aug 01 05:29:59 <Abyssul> 145
Aug 01 05:30:24 <ziplock503> lol oops I thought you posted Pre weight
Aug 01 05:30:29 <ziplock503> pre3
Aug 01 05:30:48 <ziplock503> Damn auto correct
Aug 01 05:31:19 <flare576> Under Device Info - Reset Options there is a "Full Erase"; is that the equivalent to Doctor?
Aug 01 05:31:55 <ziplock503> nope
Aug 01 05:32:09 <flare576> didn't think so, but hoped :)
Aug 01 05:32:53 <flare576> This Pre isn't recognizing USB beyond charging, so I can't doctor it and the local Sprint store can be jerks about having homebrew.
Aug 01 05:32:59 <ziplock503> doctoring is a breeze
Aug 01 05:33:16 <flare576> yeah, if the phone and PC can talk ;)
Aug 01 05:33:28 <ziplock503> you got webos quick install?
Aug 01 05:33:33 <MactavishF> flare576 the best way to solve the problem is send it to palm...
Aug 01 05:33:37 <scoutcamper> flare576, full erase will kill most homebrew
Aug 01 05:33:51 <scoutcamper> ziplock503, wouldnt help, he has no USB enumeration
Aug 01 05:34:00 <Abyssul> Yea, if you are just going to Sprint, a full erase will do
Aug 01 05:34:02 <flare576> MactavishF: I'll be bringing it to Sprint.  The phone has been dropped... a lot.
Aug 01 05:34:15 <ziplock503> try reinstalling the novacom from webos quick install
Aug 01 05:34:24 <MactavishF> flare576, watch out carefully...
Aug 01 05:34:41 <flare576> scoutcamper: thanks!
Aug 01 05:35:02 <scoutcamper> flare576, no prob
Aug 01 05:35:10 <flare576> Abyssul: thanks for the insight, Will full erase do anything to my profile backup?
Aug 01 05:35:24 <Abyssul> flare576, no
Aug 01 05:35:28 <ka6sox> scoutcamper, a full erase should bring it back to factory
Aug 01 05:35:30 <flare576> I'll be bringing the phone in tomorrow and whenever they get me a replacement I'll be re-syncing
Aug 01 05:36:00 <ka6sox> aka WIPE
Aug 01 05:36:30 <Abyssul> My bad, Full erase does not get rid of patches
Aug 01 05:36:39 <Abyssul> Doctor will be required
Aug 01 05:36:50 <flare576> poo
Aug 01 05:36:53 <flare576> well
Aug 01 05:37:00 <flare576> I made it LOOK stock at least
Aug 01 05:37:05 <Abyssul> Yeah
Aug 01 05:37:12 <Abyssul> I had mine full blown homebrewed
Aug 01 05:37:15 <ziplock503> try reintsall novacom via webos quick install
Aug 01 05:37:17 <Abyssul> and they didnt care or even turn on the phone
Aug 01 05:37:24 <flare576> ziplock503: the problem is not my pc
Aug 01 05:37:44 <flare576> my pre works fine on this machine :)
Aug 01 05:37:44 <Abyssul> I think a doctor should fix the usb problem if you believe it is phone based
Aug 01 05:37:58 <flare576> Abyssul: doctore requires a USB connection to phone
Aug 01 05:38:46 <Abyssul> You can boot it into recovery mode
Aug 01 05:39:00 <ziplock503> I had prob with my pre connecting thru usb that solved it
Aug 01 05:39:12 <Abyssul> Turn phone off, hold volume up button, plug into usb into computer
Aug 01 05:39:19 <flare576> I think the ribbon cord is damaged actually, but I'll try that
Aug 01 05:39:22 <ziplock503> I knew it wasn't the pc cause I just did a different pre previously
Aug 01 05:39:43 <Abyssul> Strange if the ribbon is damaged
Aug 01 05:40:51 <ziplock503> abyssul I always thought you had to hold power button also
Aug 01 05:41:09 <flare576> ziplock503: nope, just did it, it's trying to be USB mode
Aug 01 05:41:28 <Abyssul> Nope
Aug 01 05:41:29 <flare576> but no, not showing as a drive
Aug 01 05:41:36 <Abyssul> Its not suppose to show as drive
Aug 01 05:41:44 <Abyssul> Its supposed to show a usb symbol on the screen
Aug 01 05:41:54 <Abyssul> Indicating recovery mode
Aug 01 05:41:57 <flare576> it does
Aug 01 05:42:01 <flare576> but it does not show on my pc
Aug 01 05:42:07 <Abyssul> Then your USB is fine
Aug 01 05:42:10 <Abyssul> Its not suppose to
Aug 01 05:42:13 <ziplock503> try the reinstall novacom please
Aug 01 05:42:20 <ziplock503> it won't hurt and ez
Aug 01 05:42:28 <ziplock503> helped me b4
Aug 01 05:43:14 <ziplock503> webos quick install top left menu reinstall nova
Aug 01 05:43:29 <Abyssul> I'd go with that
Aug 01 05:43:38 <Abyssul> No need to doctor if you can get the USB to work
Aug 01 05:45:24 <flare576> "There are no devices currently connected"
Aug 01 05:46:07 <ziplock503> won't let you hit options
Aug 01 05:46:40 <flare576> when I open WOSQI, it tells me there are no devices, and gives me the option to re-install novacom
Aug 01 05:46:50 <flare576> I allow it to, but after install it still sees no devices
Aug 01 05:47:03 <ziplock503> did reinstall work... worth a shot
Aug 01 05:47:07 <ziplock503> shity
Aug 01 05:47:28 <ziplock503> you in de mode?
Aug 01 05:47:31 <ziplock503> dev
Aug 01 05:47:37 <flare576> yup
Aug 01 05:47:52 <flare576> Doctor doesn't see it either (now in USB recovery mode)
Aug 01 05:48:06 <Abyssul> What OS?
Aug 01 05:48:15 <flare576> win7
Aug 01 05:48:18 <Abyssul> bit?
Aug 01 05:48:30 <flare576> 64 bit, sorry
Aug 01 05:48:44 <flare576> was 1-handed rebooting phone, which is tricky considering the device is falling apart lol
Aug 01 05:48:58 <Abyssul> Restart the doctor, and pull the battery
Aug 01 05:49:04 <flare576> yup, just did that
Aug 01 05:49:09 <Abyssul> Dont put it in recovery until it asks you to connect the pre
Aug 01 05:49:14 <flare576> ok
Aug 01 05:49:23 <Abyssul> Which is like 5 prompts in
Aug 01 05:49:29 <Abyssul> where you click "next"
Aug 01 05:50:18 <Jack87-wIRC> cryptk|offline: ping
Aug 01 05:50:21 <flare576> while doctor is waiting for device, plugged in USB, plugged in battery, Doctor can't tell
Aug 01 05:50:37 <Abyssul> USB symbol on Pre screen?
Aug 01 05:50:41 <flare576> yessir
Aug 01 05:50:46 <flare576> this thing is nuked
Aug 01 05:50:54 <flare576> my wife does not screw around when destroying her devices.
Aug 01 05:50:57 <ziplock503> I always keep holding it at this point lol
Aug 01 05:51:05 <Abyssul> ctrl + alt + del and go to Processes
Aug 01 05:51:15 <Abyssul> See if novacom is listed
Aug 01 05:51:31 <flare576> hmm, novacom is not listed
Aug 01 05:51:37 <Abyssul> or novacomd
Aug 01 05:51:45 <flare576> no nova*
Aug 01 05:51:52 <Abyssul> Go to device manager
Aug 01 05:52:12 <flare576> well shit
Aug 01 05:52:13 <Abyssul> Is Palm Novacom listed?
Aug 01 05:52:23 <flare576> no, but I've got little "!" all over the USB stuff
Aug 01 05:52:42 <Abyssul> o.O Idk what that is
Aug 01 05:52:57 <ziplock503> hardware?
Aug 01 05:53:15 <Abyssul> http://universal-novacom-installer.googlecode.com/files/UniversalNovacomInstaller.jar
Aug 01 05:53:17 <Abyssul> Use this
Aug 01 05:53:21 <Abyssul> Should fix your novacom problem
Aug 01 05:53:21 <flare576> wow, that pisses me right off
Aug 01 05:53:45 <Abyssul> Dont worry about that USB !
Aug 01 05:53:50 <ziplock503> so was I on right track earlier?
Aug 01 05:53:59 <flare576> no, hardware failure on my pc
Aug 01 05:54:07 <flare576> apparenlty that slot has an issue
Aug 01 05:54:13 <ziplock503> oh Ur pc ... weak
Aug 01 05:54:16 <flare576> yeah
Aug 01 05:54:16 <Abyssul> Do your USB ports even work?
Aug 01 05:54:24 <flare576> until 4 hours ago
Aug 01 05:54:25 <flare576> yes
Aug 01 05:54:25 <Abyssul> Lol
Aug 01 05:54:29 <ziplock503> sheeeh
Aug 01 05:54:33 <ziplock503> sheesh
Aug 01 05:54:49 <flare576> yah.... I'll tell the wife her phone destroyed one of my USB ports :)
Aug 01 05:54:59 <ziplock503> nice
Aug 01 05:55:16 <Abyssul> Meh, its probably fine. Just a driver problem
Aug 01 05:55:33 <flare576> wow... I didn't have to get OpenSSH SFTP installed and configured...
Aug 01 05:55:40 <flare576> that makes me sad.
Aug 01 05:56:46 <flare576> well, good to know my ribbon cable diagnostic was wrong... i kinda figured i was inventing something on that one ;)
Aug 01 05:58:17 <Abyssul> Seemed very unlikely
Aug 01 05:58:21 <Abyssul> Whats the status on the Pre?
Aug 01 05:58:26 <flare576> doctoring
Aug 01 05:58:34 <Abyssul> What fixed it?
Aug 01 05:58:47 <flare576> plugging it into a less-finicky USB port
Aug 01 05:59:14 <Abyssul> Yeah, I have a loose USB port
Aug 01 05:59:21 <Abyssul> Wish I knew how to fix it
Aug 01 05:59:34 <flare576> like I said, though; was working until 4 hours ago.  Literally used it earlier todya.
Aug 01 05:59:35 <flare576> *today
Aug 01 05:59:52 <flare576> find an Electrical Engineer with a soldering gun ;)
Aug 01 05:59:53 <Abyssul> was probably on its last legs
Aug 01 05:59:59 <Abyssul> I have a soldering gun
Aug 01 06:00:13 <flare576> then un-loose it ;)
Aug 01 06:03:17 <Abyssul> That can be my project tomorrow
Aug 01 06:07:26 <flare576> alrighty all, thank you for the help and advice :)
Aug 01 06:08:08 <flare576> it's 'cause of this community I'm staying on WebOS and waiting for the !!%$# Palm3
Aug 01 06:08:41 <Abyssul> Nothing is more satisfying than putting your two year old Pre- into a new Pre2
Aug 01 06:09:09 <Jack87> lol
Aug 01 06:09:17 <flare576> I don't want to spend money on a new device twice :(
Aug 01 06:10:09 <Abyssul> I got mine for free :p
Aug 01 06:10:19 <Abyssul> Pre
Aug 01 06:10:25 <Jack87> flare576, $200 or less is worth it. anything more not so much
Aug 01 06:10:26 <Abyssul> Pre2's go for 200 bucks*
Aug 01 06:11:07 <flare576> I'll keep in mind... But I'm still hoping for a device by the end of Sept :(
Aug 01 06:11:22 <Jack87> check local classifieds
Aug 01 06:12:03 <Abyssul> What carrier?
Aug 01 06:12:12 <flare576> save me some time: do I have to be careful which Pre2 I get for Sprint?
Aug 01 06:12:15 <ziplock503> webos community the best imo
Aug 01 06:12:24 <Abyssul> Nope
Aug 01 06:12:28 <Abyssul> Either work
Aug 01 06:12:33 <flare576> awesome sauce.
Aug 01 06:12:43 <ziplock503> I got vzn pre2 on sprint
Aug 01 06:12:46 <Abyssul> If you are waiting for Pre3 for Sprint, dont waste your time
Aug 01 06:12:53 <flare576> nope
Aug 01 06:12:56 <Abyssul> I got GSM unlocked working on Sprint
Aug 01 06:13:00 <flare576> wife and I are out of contract
Aug 01 06:13:12 <flare576> so as soon as pre3 hits, we're switching to whatever carrier gets it
Aug 01 06:13:21 <Abyssul> Oh, its coming for summer
Aug 01 06:13:23 <ziplock503> my gf has my frankenpre+ now
Aug 01 06:13:51 <Abyssul> Seeing how the 2.2 SDK was released (mentioned in PC), it is right on track
Aug 01 06:14:02 <Abyssul> not SDK, emu*
Aug 01 06:14:39 <flare576> right, so... I'm saving the $200 for now ;)
Aug 01 06:15:06 <Abyssul> Seriously, the Pre2 is solid
Aug 01 06:15:15 <Abyssul> I could care less about the Pre3 now
Aug 01 06:15:29 <ziplock503> my pre2 will last me till march when my 2nd lines contract ends
Aug 01 06:16:00 <flare576> Think the Pre2 is going to keep getting updates?
Aug 01 06:16:11 <ziplock503> I just hope pre2 gets support
Aug 01 06:16:34 <Jack87> only thing pre2 will lack is touch to share
Aug 01 06:16:53 <ziplock503> I bet homebrew will fix that soon
Aug 01 06:17:06 <ziplock503> at least we got neato! app
Aug 01 06:17:28 <Abyssul> flare576, yes
Aug 01 06:17:36 <Jack87> flare576, ya... tp rebate is for pre/pixi/plus because they will not get updates
Aug 01 06:17:39 <Abyssul> Pre2 is still supported by HP in my eyes
Aug 01 06:17:55 <sash_> Pre2, Amazon, Germany: 419 to 459€ O.o
Aug 01 06:18:01 <Jack87> but not the 2
Aug 01 06:18:09 <dtzWill> so, uh, how about that OTA update? :)
Aug 01 06:18:13 <Abyssul> Pre2, HP, US, $230 shipped
Aug 01 06:18:28 <flare576> oh, how long is that discount good for...
Aug 01 06:18:31 <Abyssul> Yea, its August 1st and no TP update. WTF HP
Aug 01 06:18:32 <flare576> gotta find that page
Aug 01 06:18:36 <ziplock503> today
Aug 01 06:18:44 <flare576> crap lol
Aug 01 06:18:58 <ziplock503> 40minutes
Aug 01 06:18:59 <Jack87> 479 TP @ costco w/ case
Aug 01 06:19:00 <flare576> I was hoping it'd be after the aTT touchpad comes out
Aug 01 06:19:05 <Jack87> fyi
Aug 01 06:19:21 <ziplock503> the make things right rebate what I'm talking about
Aug 01 06:19:28 <Abyssul> That rebate sucks
Aug 01 06:19:48 <Abyssul> All these promotional deals for the TP are crazy
Aug 01 06:19:53 <flare576> lol
Aug 01 06:19:57 <Jack87> if you count rebate it was 50 bucks off making it 420 for 32gig TP
Aug 01 06:19:57 <Jack87> but too late for that now
Aug 01 06:20:11 <Abyssul> I'd rather use my dev coupon for the TP
Aug 01 06:20:46 <ziplock503> we shoulda got 100 off
Aug 01 06:21:17 <flare576> i agree
Aug 01 06:21:22 <Jack87> indeed
Aug 01 06:21:53 <Jack87> especially if they were only limiting it to the 32gig model.
Aug 01 06:22:06 <ziplock503> fukers
Aug 01 06:22:23 <flare576> anyway, phone is in returnable shape now :)
Aug 01 06:22:27 <flare576> thanks all, have a good night
Aug 01 06:22:30 <ziplock503> woot
Aug 01 06:22:54 <Abyssul> yea, wtf is this 32gb only deal
Aug 01 06:23:08 <Abyssul> That applys to the rebate AND dev code
Aug 01 06:23:22 <Abyssul> I dont want to spent 100 bucks on an extra 16gb....
Aug 01 06:23:33 <Abyssul> I just want 3.0
Aug 01 06:24:00 <Jack87> im sad palm never included micro sd. that was a stupid appleish move to do. still pisses me off. and they continue it at HP
Aug 01 06:24:19 <ziplock503> there is room for sd card in tp design
Aug 01 06:24:30 <dtzWill> Jack87: yeah, it's surprising :/.
Aug 01 06:24:30 <Jack87> Palm was one of the first to utilize SD slots in their devices
Aug 01 06:24:52 <Abyssul> There is a spot for a SIM card, not SD
Aug 01 06:25:00 <Abyssul> If I recall
Aug 01 06:25:12 <ziplock503> hmm on side of device?
Aug 01 06:25:13 <dtzWill> well maybe not surprising, but disappointing
Aug 01 06:25:23 <Abyssul> Yep
Aug 01 06:25:25 <Jack87> Abyssul, spot yes... but dtzWill was saying there is enough room to have included sd if they wanted
Aug 01 06:25:46 <Abyssul> http://www.techfever.net/images/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/HP-TouchPad.png
Aug 01 06:25:47 <Jack87> i mean ziplock503 :)
Aug 01 06:26:07 <Abyssul> oh, I read his comment wrong, but yeah
Aug 01 06:26:18 <ziplock503> no worries
Aug 01 06:26:29 <Abyssul> Idc about Sd micro either, that's what box.net is for
Aug 01 06:27:01 <ziplock503> I want free 50 gbs!
Aug 01 06:27:44 <Jack87> eh... box.net  isnt that handy if you arent always on an internet connection. and besides that there is no desktop program for it without registering for a over priced business account.
Aug 01 06:28:19 <ziplock503> zumo works alright but its no 50 gigs
Aug 01 06:28:47 <ziplock503> ZumoDrive
Aug 01 06:28:52 <Jack87> An SD card would go a long ways... and actually open new doors to what the device could do
Aug 01 06:29:12 <Abyssul> Note to self: high load averages = bad
Aug 01 06:29:24 <Jack87> a lot like many of the android devices... the SD card becomes really handy especially on my nook
Aug 01 06:33:34 <Jack87> is it just me or does the physical button on the TP feel like a step backwords.... its like one step forward and two steps back with lack of gestures and physical buttons
Aug 01 06:34:44 <Jack87> the internals of the device are amazing. but some of the little things make you just say "really?"
Aug 01 06:35:08 <ziplock503> yeah wtf no gestures
Aug 01 06:35:59 <Jack87> i know i know enyo doesnt need back  as much... but for the times it does... it really sucks looking for a back button inside the app after you been spoiled with webos
Aug 01 06:39:41 <Jack87> does anyone know if the HP official case is actually worth $40-$50?
Aug 01 06:40:06 <rwhitby> I like mine enough to keep it on.
Aug 01 06:40:58 <Jack87> rwhitby, thanks :)
Aug 01 06:42:58 <Jack87> rwhitby, it only covers the screen right?
Aug 01 06:45:17 <dtzWill> i love my case, idk how to answer what it's worth.
Aug 01 06:45:47 <dtzWill> i never take it off, and i even go to lengths to leave it on.  only sad part is that i can't reasonably use exhibition on a touchstone with it on :(
Aug 01 06:48:51 <Jack87> dtzWill, thanks
Aug 01 06:49:14 <Jack87> is TS as handy for Tp as it is  for the phones?
Aug 01 06:49:28 <Abyssul> Eh, idk
Aug 01 06:49:37 <Abyssul> I'd think the case is more important
Aug 01 06:49:55 <Abyssul> Anyone know why Mode Switcher doesnt have brightness setting anymore? I cant find it
Aug 01 06:51:06 <Jack87> i thought i had seen case for $30 earlier in the month on amazon
Aug 01 06:51:18 <Jack87> these prices keep fluctuating
Aug 01 06:51:43 <Abyssul> yea gotta catch them
Aug 01 06:56:08 <rwhitby> dtzWill: I use the case on the touchpad with exhibition
Aug 01 06:56:35 <rwhitby> Jack87: case covers the whole device
Aug 01 06:56:50 * rwhitby now has TPTS at home and work
Aug 01 06:57:13 <Jack87> thanks! good to know
Aug 01 06:57:15 <Abyssul> The case should work with the TS
Aug 01 06:58:19 <rwhitby> it does
Aug 01 06:59:01 <Abyssul> Wish HP would hurry up and send those dev discount coupons so I can get a TP already
Aug 01 06:59:23 * Jack87 wishes there was a way to merge profiles
Aug 01 06:59:27 <dtzWill> rwhitby: ...how? :)
Aug 01 06:59:36 <dtzWill> fold it under? or open it off to the left?
Aug 01 07:00:55 <Abyssul> I heard it works with the flap over the screen or even with both layers of the case against the back of the TP
Aug 01 07:02:11 <dtzWill> it doesn't work wth flap up and over screen, that'd be ideal
Aug 01 07:02:23 <dtzWill> it does work through two layers but then the flap kinda pushes it off the touchstone some
Aug 01 07:02:31 <dtzWill> and it's crooked and weird
Aug 01 07:03:00 <dtzWill> not to be super picky or complainy lol but it's official dock with official case, using advertised feature. not entirely unreasonable to expect them to work nicely together :)
Aug 01 07:03:21 <Jack87> has anyone tried this guy? http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-920-000594-diNovo-Mini/dp/B0011FOOI2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312182148&sr=8-1
Aug 01 07:04:45 <Abyssul> That is expensive...
Aug 01 07:04:55 <Jack87> ya it is
Aug 01 07:05:10 <Jack87> but it seem really handy.
Aug 01 07:05:15 <Abyssul> Its incredibly small too
Aug 01 07:05:22 <Abyssul> Its the size of your hand
Aug 01 07:05:43 <Abyssul> and it would be cool if it could dock the TP
Aug 01 07:07:07 <Jack87> be nice to wirc with
Aug 01 07:08:21 <rwhitby> dtzWill: fold the flap under
Aug 01 07:09:26 <Jack87> rwhitby, any experience with dinovo mini?
Aug 01 07:09:28 <Abyssul> wirc is amazing. Its incredible how well the app has grown
Aug 01 07:09:36 <Abyssul> Just like the rest of the webos homebrew
Aug 01 07:48:14 <Abyssul> SSH service isn't starting up when I reboot on my PRe2
Aug 01 07:48:40 <Abyssul> I have to remove and install to get it to start up
Aug 01 08:18:11 <Abyssul> You would think HP would fix WebOS's boottime dependency on the number of apps...
Aug 01 13:07:14 <RavenII> Meow meow meow meow, meow meow meow meow, meow meow meow meow....
Aug 01 14:25:37 <dtzWill> RavenII: cut that out, right meow!
Aug 01 14:28:20 <ka6sox> meow mix?
Aug 01 14:29:03 * PatrickC is lost...
Aug 01 14:39:01 <RavenII> Hahaha
Aug 01 14:39:09 <RavenII> Right meow...that was nice.
Aug 01 14:45:08 <dtzWill> RavenII: ever seen super trooopers? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yXZRdeGHEo (terrible quality, but you get the idea)
Aug 01 14:45:18 <RavenII> Oh yeah
Aug 01 14:45:30 <RavenII> hilarious
Aug 01 14:46:02 <RavenII> These Snozberries Taste Like Snozberries
Aug 01 14:46:03 <RavenII> hahaha
Aug 01 14:46:45 <dtzWill> you boys like mexico?! YEAAHAWWW
Aug 01 14:47:13 <dtzWill> *ahem*, i mean i wonder how the touchpad is selling in mexico these days
Aug 01 14:47:22 * dtzWill checks app sales reports for indirect check
Aug 01 14:47:29 * dtzWill makes bad attempt to get back 'on topic' :)
Aug 01 16:51:45 <Deihmos> is the new touchpad update suppose to fix the lag?
Aug 01 17:05:05 <oc80z> what lag
Aug 01 17:06:32 <linuxjacques> he might mean scrolling lag
Aug 01 17:07:35 <IGNTNUNLMTD> yeah, at 1.5 GHz, what lag?
Aug 01 17:08:07 <PatrickC> lol
Aug 01 17:09:58 <PatrickC> I hope I get my email soon!
Aug 01 17:12:32 <Abyssul> Anyone familiar with the modem wakeup issue with the Pre2?
Aug 01 17:13:06 <PatrickC> Abyssul: what's it do?
Aug 01 17:13:31 <Abyssul> The modem in the Pre2 keeps the OS from going into an extended PS mode
Aug 01 17:13:38 <Abyssul> Which effectively kills the battery
Aug 01 17:14:06 <Abyssul> if you look at the /var/log/messages file, the pre basically power down, then on, then off every second
Aug 01 17:17:20 <kevets> yeah i get that same problem Abyssul
Aug 01 17:17:39 <Abyssul> The WLAN driver keeps forcing the OS awake
Aug 01 17:17:48 <kevets> i was just messing around trying to figure out what kernel/govnah settings to use to try and squeeze out more battery life
Aug 01 17:17:57 <Abyssul> I would use nodoze to keep it awake all the time, but I hate that dashboard notification. I need a headless app
Aug 01 17:18:22 <kevets> i am testing a patch called quiet powerd messages and it seems to do just that
Aug 01 17:18:23 <Abyssul> Meh, fixing this problem would give the Pre 2 more battery than any kernel
Aug 01 17:18:39 <Abyssul> That just muffles the logging
Aug 01 17:18:41 <kevets> i quit running nodoze and installed the patch, and tested it
Aug 01 17:18:51 <Abyssul> Doesnt fix the "not going into extended PS mode" problem
Aug 01 17:19:10 <kevets> yeah thats what i figured... thinking nodoze may still be best bet
Aug 01 17:19:22 <Abyssul> Need someone to make it headless though
Aug 01 17:19:31 <kevets> I am convinced this affects nearly all Pre 2's from the amount of replies it gets in the forums
Aug 01 17:19:41 <Abyssul> It does
Aug 01 17:19:43 <kevets> some people just maybe havent tested it to confirm
Aug 01 17:19:47 <Abyssul> Its not hardware, but firmware
Aug 01 17:20:07 <kevets> do you run the stock kernel or one of the oc'd ones
Aug 01 17:22:19 <Abyssul> Stock
Aug 01 17:23:19 <kevets> yeah i think i may stick with stock. don't really see how an oc'd kernel could do any better on battery
Aug 01 17:23:34 <kevets> the sleep/wakeup thing is quite frustrating though
Aug 01 17:24:57 <Abyssul> http://pastebin.com/rXiLwfKS
Aug 01 17:25:56 <kevets> what app do you use to get that?
Aug 01 17:26:35 <kevets> or is that straight from the /var/log/messages
Aug 01 17:27:14 <kevets> that's pretty similar to what i get too
Aug 01 17:33:46 <Abyssul> straight from putty in /var/log/messages
Aug 01 17:34:07 <Abyssul> See the WLAN driver is forcing the OS awake
Aug 01 17:37:37 <kevets> but it happens even with wifi disabled correct?
Aug 01 17:37:43 <kevets> that's what i remember seeing
Aug 01 17:37:54 <Abyssul> WLAN is cellular I think
Aug 01 17:37:57 <Abyssul> ill try in airplace mode
Aug 01 17:38:23 <kevets> ah
Aug 01 17:38:37 <Abyssul> Holy crap... there is a device sleep toggle!
Aug 01 17:38:42 <Abyssul> No need for nodoze
Aug 01 17:39:09 <kevets> there is?
Aug 01 17:39:36 <Abyssul> In the advanced system patches
Aug 01 17:39:52 <Abyssul> If you hold the power button, "disable device sleep" is an option
Aug 01 17:40:24 <kevets> oh interesting!
Aug 01 17:43:22 <Abyssul> Doesnt seem to do it in airplane mode
Aug 01 17:44:41 <kevets> hmm, i cant seem to get the popup messages when i monitor xterm
Aug 01 17:44:53 <kevets> phone unplugged, nodoze not enabled. odd
Aug 01 17:49:52 <Abyssul> ooh. I got a message from palm about the dev program
Aug 01 17:50:00 <Abyssul> I use putty
Aug 01 17:50:28 <kevets> how do you get in using putty? i've got novaterm working now
Aug 01 17:50:37 <Abyssul> I use openssh
Aug 01 17:52:09 <kevets> ah so you can enable that on teh phone and then just ssh to its IP? i guess over wifi?
Aug 01 17:56:06 <Lazar_Dobrescu> Hmm.. this channel says it's about WebOS internal and not webOS SDK usage, does that mean it's also not the place to ask things about WIDK?
Aug 01 17:57:16 <linuxjacques> WIDK discussion is fine here.
Aug 01 17:59:08 <Lazar_Dobrescu> aight... It seems like the instructions for setupping WIDK have changed quite a bit this past month... And I ran into some trouble... now I'm no longer sure if my setup is alright... is there a way to "rebuild it" without starting with a completely new folder?
Aug 01 17:59:28 <Lazar_Dobrescu> also am I right that it wants me to have VirtualBox installed into my guest linux? (it wants to run VBoxManage)
Aug 01 17:59:37 <Abyssul> kevets, you are correct
Aug 01 18:00:40 <Abyssul> Reason I dont use experimental kernels is because the load averages are always high which is bad
Aug 01 18:00:44 <kevets> trying the advanced system power menu patch now
Aug 01 18:01:03 <Abyssul> Tell me if it gets rid of the OS sleep problem (it should)
Aug 01 18:01:41 <kevets> yeah mine is back to stock now, trying to find the best battery life. if i can get by with this and not have to run nodoze that would be great
Aug 01 18:03:25 <kevets> hmm disable sleep toggle isn't there. might have the wrong patch
Aug 01 18:04:06 <linuxjacques> Lazar_Dobrescu: I wasn't aware the WIDK needed vbox
Aug 01 18:04:21 <Lazar_Dobrescu> me neither... but the script failed with "VBoxManage: command not found"
Aug 01 18:04:54 <Lazar_Dobrescu> ofc installing virtualbox inside the guest partially fails because it conflicts with the virtualbox tools that are already there
Aug 01 18:05:06 <Lazar_Dobrescu> (when trying to insert their module into the kernel)
Aug 01 18:05:10 <linuxjacques> Lazar_Dobrescu: which script?
Aug 01 18:05:18 <Lazar_Dobrescu> the make setup one
Aug 01 18:05:22 <dtzWill> Lazar_Dobrescu: it...shouldn't need vbox? do you have any information on what is requiring that/pastebin a log/etc?
Aug 01 18:05:32 <Lazar_Dobrescu> lemme make a pastebin
Aug 01 18:05:46 <dtzWill> Lazar_Dobrescu: thank you. :)
Aug 01 18:07:52 <dtzWill> hmm i see, root makefile has that.
Aug 01 18:08:13 <dtzWill> Lazar_Dobrescu: that's only for targeting the emulator
Aug 01 18:08:25 <dtzWill> and uses vboxmanage to extract the image and play with it, i'd iamgine.
Aug 01 18:08:44 <Lazar_Dobrescu> hmm
Aug 01 18:09:00 <Lazar_Dobrescu> so would you  just install virtualbox so it can do it ?
Aug 01 18:09:10 <dtzWill> Lazar_Dobrescu: if you don't need that, try just 'make setup-archv7'
Aug 01 18:09:17 <dtzWill> errm
Aug 01 18:09:19 <Lazar_Dobrescu> ah
Aug 01 18:09:22 <dtzWill> setup-armv7
Aug 01 18:09:24 <dtzWill> sorry :)
Aug 01 18:09:45 <Lazar_Dobrescu> hehe ok... also quick question... the instructions no longer include "make stage"... but I guess I should still do that when the rest is done?
Aug 01 18:10:07 <Lazar_Dobrescu> anyhow the log is there now that you  no longer need it: http://pastebin.com/GKuZuQED
Aug 01 18:11:00 <dtzWill> Lazar_Dobrescu: probably not, that builds everything and takes forever :).
Aug 01 18:11:04 <linuxjacques> I build things with widk all the time and I don't have vbox
Aug 01 18:11:05 <Lazar_Dobrescu> ok
Aug 01 18:11:06 <dtzWill> probably just wanna build the things you want/need
Aug 01 18:11:11 <Lazar_Dobrescu> makes sense
Aug 01 18:11:20 <linuxjacques> yeah make stage is overkill IMHO
Aug 01 18:11:37 <Lazar_Dobrescu> linuxjacques: as dtzWill said, it's jkust for targetting the emulator so I guess I can forget about that
Aug 01 18:11:48 <linuxjacques> ok
Aug 01 18:11:58 <Lazar_Dobrescu> as long as I can get the makefile to get past that, which make setup-archv7 should
Aug 01 18:15:49 <Abyssul> kevets, did you add it in the settings for device sleep?
Aug 01 18:16:02 <Abyssul> Hold the power button to pop the menu, then hold it again to open the setttings
Aug 01 18:18:47 <Abyssul> "advanced system menus - power menu", make sure you have the framework installed too kevets
Aug 01 18:19:39 <kevets> ah.. didn't hit it twice. trying now
Aug 01 18:20:43 <Abyssul> Holy crap
Aug 01 18:20:58 <Abyssul> It makes my mA to 35ma on idle
Aug 01 18:21:23 <kevets> wow that would be great
Aug 01 18:21:31 <Abyssul> Im still experimenting with it in govnah
Aug 01 18:21:33 <kevets> i recall never seeing anything below -130ma drain
Aug 01 18:21:41 <Abyssul> Same
Aug 01 18:21:50 <Abyssul> I see around 120 on idle if NOTHING is happening
Aug 01 18:21:56 <kevets> what govnah settings are safe to mess with?
Aug 01 18:21:59 <Abyssul> 500-600 with data going
Aug 01 18:22:09 <Abyssul> Im not messing with the settings, just logging
Aug 01 18:23:57 <kevets> ok gotcha. yeah i finally see the advanced power menu how to get in there and show the enable/disable sleep. restarting now for good measure then we'll see how it behaves
Aug 01 18:24:34 <Abyssul> 120mA on idle with screen on
Aug 01 18:24:59 <Abyssul> (note this is with govnah running too)
Aug 01 18:25:14 <Abyssul> So you could expect lower when its not running
Aug 01 18:27:03 <Abyssul> Once I get more readings over the day, I could experiment with the kernels tonight
Aug 01 18:31:18 <Lazar_Dobrescu> what are you guys doing to attempt to reduce power consumption?
Aug 01 18:34:10 <Abyssul> the Pre2 has a firmware problem where it doesnt go into extended PS mode
Aug 01 18:34:42 <Abyssul> So instead of wasting cpu cycles and voltage on that neverending loop, we are just never letting that loop happen by keeping the pre2 awake
Aug 01 18:34:57 <Abyssul> Which could mean better battery life
Aug 01 18:35:05 <Lazar_Dobrescu> is that a problem of the pre2 itself or of webos2
Aug 01 18:35:20 <Abyssul> Both probably
Aug 01 18:36:07 <kevets> do you use mode switcher Abyssul to enable/disable data.. stuff like that?
Aug 01 18:36:16 <Abyssul> Na, mode switcher is confusing
Aug 01 18:36:33 <Abyssul> I wanted to have it set the brightness based on what time of day it was
Aug 01 18:36:38 <Abyssul> but it doesnt do brightness anymore
Aug 01 18:37:12 <Abyssul> and I cant get it to distinguish between my home touchstone and car touchstone so I cant make a "driving" profile trigger automatically
Aug 01 18:37:12 <kevets> i wish it did kb brightness. there was an app , quick system tasks that could do that real well but it didn't seem to work so hot after i doctored to 2.1.0
Aug 01 18:37:55 <Abyssul> screen on? 120mA screen off? sub-70mA :)
Aug 01 18:38:05 <Abyssul> Lets see how battery life does today at work
Aug 01 18:38:09 <kevets> lets see, idling around -100mA draw w/ data off
Aug 01 18:38:18 <kevets> i'm in a crappy 3g area in this building so it kills it
Aug 01 18:38:29 <Abyssul> I have data on cellular
Aug 01 18:38:41 <kevets> strong signal area?
Aug 01 18:38:52 <Abyssul> It jumps
Aug 01 18:39:02 <Abyssul> Sadly my Pre2 now cant charge past 170mA
Aug 01 18:39:52 <Abyssul> damn Pre <.<
Aug 01 18:40:40 <Abyssul> laters
Aug 01 18:40:48 <kevets> grr w/ 3g on its jumping to like -400mA draw
Aug 01 18:40:50 <kevets> blah
Aug 01 18:41:01 <Simon80> hey dtzWill, are we going to keep our VBA versions in sync?
Aug 01 18:42:07 <NuttyBunny> Abyssul: is it hot?
Aug 01 18:45:22 <Simon80> NuttyBunny: he's gone
Aug 01 18:46:02 <Simon80> or she, I don't know
Aug 01 18:46:57 <NuttyBunny> Simon80: yeah... most devices stop charging when they're too hot, or limit their charging :)
Aug 01 19:09:41 <PatrickC> http://twitpic.com/5zgses 1.998GHz?!?!?!?!
Aug 01 19:16:08 <kevets> damn, is that a touchpad?
Aug 01 19:19:29 <PatrickC> yes
Aug 01 20:04:19 <rrix> hmmm, so I redoctored, and dmesg claims that my pre doesn't have a /media/internal which drive mode is exposing
Aug 01 20:04:26 <rrix> fdisk agress
Aug 01 20:04:27 <rrix> agrees
Aug 01 20:40:26 * halfhalo-work waits for 2.5GHz kernels.
Aug 01 20:56:33 <kevets> blah
Aug 01 20:56:40 <kevets> why is the usb mode so freakin slow
Aug 01 20:57:00 <kevets> this pre2 take forever for me to transfer a gig of podcasts
Aug 01 20:58:20 <dwc-> dd takes awhile too
Aug 01 20:59:10 <kevets> makes it tough to use as a media player
Aug 01 21:00:20 <dwc-> that, and the default audio/video apps kinda suck
Aug 01 21:00:49 <kevets> i do like music player remix - that thing is sweet
Aug 01 21:00:57 <kevets> lovin the bookmarks for podcasts
Aug 01 21:01:03 <dwc-> yea, that's not a default app
Aug 01 21:01:16 <kevets> right
Aug 01 21:08:23 <PatrickC> kevets: I will have local music playback in my app
Aug 01 21:15:21 <kevets> you working on an app?
Aug 01 21:29:53 <NuttyBunny_Pre2> PuffTheMagic: ping?
Aug 01 21:31:11 <PatrickC> kevets: yes
Aug 01 21:47:07 <PatrickC> who's the main dev of Govnah?
Aug 01 21:47:25 <summatusmentis> pr. sure it's oil
Aug 01 21:47:33 <summatusmentis> might be oil and rwhitby together
Aug 01 21:48:06 <PatrickC> I was trying to use some code from Govnah (and just straight up look at some) and can't get it to work at all
Aug 01 21:48:26 <summatusmentis> define "get it to work"
Aug 01 21:49:02 <PatrickC> exactly what it says.. it won't work. won't let me launch the scene, won't do the showonfirstuse, etc.
Aug 01 21:49:15 <PatrickC> I'm trying to make a changelog scene that shows only on first use
Aug 01 21:49:28 <PatrickC> and I loved the way it was implemented into the wOSI apps
Aug 01 21:49:34 <summatusmentis> what is "it"
Aug 01 21:49:47 <PatrickC> the code
Aug 01 21:50:26 <summatusmentis> who's code? which parts? you're gonna need to be way more specific to get help
Aug 01 21:50:35 <summatusmentis> now, you should know, I don't have an answer for you
Aug 01 21:50:49 <summatusmentis> but you need to provide people more information than "I can't get it to work"
Aug 01 21:51:42 <PatrickC> I c/p'd the code from startup-assstant, startup-scene, and changelog.html
Aug 01 21:51:57 <PatrickC> because I got frustrated, figured I misspelled something
Aug 01 21:52:12 <PatrickC> I can paste the code/entire folder if needed
Aug 01 21:53:36 <PatrickC> it keeps selling versionCookie is not defined
Aug 01 21:54:03 <PatrickC> I put everything that had to do with versionCookie into my stageAssistant .. yet it still gives me the error
Aug 01 21:54:19 <stbuehler> don't copy code you don't understand :P
Aug 01 21:54:37 <PatrickC> I do understand it
Aug 01 21:54:52 <PatrickC> but I copied the code to make sure I didn't misspell it
Aug 01 21:55:37 <PatrickC> I don't see where they do anything but var vers = new veesionCookie();
Aug 01 21:57:26 <PatrickC> I've got to go.. thx for the help..
Aug 01 21:57:30 <PatrickC> I'll be back later
Aug 01 22:38:23 <NuttyBunny_Pre2> mmm...
Aug 01 22:40:56 <PatrickC> hey NuttyBunny_Pre2
Aug 01 22:42:00 <PatrickC> oil: ping?
Aug 01 22:44:31 * Abyssul-Pre waits for flood of threads about how the update didnt fix everything.
Aug 01 22:44:56 <PatrickC> lol
Aug 01 22:49:37 <Abyssul-Pre> where is the precentral app located?
Aug 01 22:51:43 <Abyssul-Pre> I searched preware and only could find the crappy one
Aug 01 22:52:38 <PatrickC> in the official catalog
Aug 01 22:52:51 <Abyssul-Pre> name?
Aug 01 22:53:58 <PatrickC> Precentral News (Unofficial)
Aug 01 22:55:30 <Abyssul-Pre> doesnt show up. got the appid? I'll just use impostah. It might be because I'm sprint Pre2 displayed as RoW.
Aug 01 22:56:12 <PatrickC> 1 second
Aug 01 22:56:51 <PatrickC> com.scienceapps.precentealnews (I think that's it)
Aug 01 22:58:08 <preMuhb> quick question... I have a franken at&t pre+ with a sprint comms board... if I wanted to throw a custom 2.1.0 doctor/OS on it, should I start with the meta-sprint-pre-2.1.0 or the meta-att-preplus-2.1.0 script?
Aug 01 22:58:24 <LarrySteeze> sprint
Aug 01 22:58:25 <Abyssul-Pre> haha, invalid app for device model. Palm you are silly...
Aug 01 22:59:31 <summatusmentis> is it really com.scienceapps.precentealnews ?
Aug 01 22:59:36 * LarrySteeze is getting a veer in the mail tomorrow! Too bad I'm on sprint and will only be able to use it for testing purposes :-(
Aug 01 22:59:50 <PatrickC> summatusmentis: I believe so
Aug 01 23:00:03 <summatusmentis> t-e-a-l?
Aug 01 23:00:06 <preMuhb> larry, and afterwards unpack and fix the tokens/activation information, correct? I did the tokens first but noticed the script didn't like my modded jar, so it redownloaded the sprint 145 image.
Aug 01 23:00:08 <summatusmentis> not t-r-a-l?
Aug 01 23:00:28 <PatrickC> oops.. misspelled
Aug 01 23:00:34 <Abyssul-Pre> com.scienceapps.precentralnews
Aug 01 23:00:36 <PatrickC> com.scienceapps.precentralnews
Aug 01 23:00:56 <summatusmentis> right
Aug 01 23:01:01 <summatusmentis> just clarifying, because it'll matter
Aug 01 23:01:14 <PatrickC> yep
Aug 01 23:01:38 <PatrickC> hrmm.. even Koto does the changelog the *same way* wOSI does it
Aug 01 23:01:51 <summatusmentis> presumably because it works
Aug 01 23:02:02 <LarrySteeze> you seem to know what you're doing premuhb...I think you'll be fine ;-)
Aug 01 23:02:03 <PatrickC> yeah.. not for me :/
Aug 01 23:02:18 <LarrySteeze> anyone here tried amahi out at all?
Aug 01 23:02:31 <summatusmentis> PatrickC: then I'm gonna go out on a limb, and say you're doing it wrong
Aug 01 23:02:40 <PatrickC> but idk where...
Aug 01 23:02:47 <preMuhb> not really, haha. I'm just stumbling through the wiki pages, trying to improvise a bit, heh
Aug 01 23:02:57 <PatrickC> they only define var vers = new veesionCookie(); once
Aug 01 23:03:05 <PatrickC> I can't find out where else they use it
Aug 01 23:03:09 <PatrickC> an that throws an error
Aug 01 23:03:17 <LarrySteeze> I've installed amahi on a VM, even though I'm not a huge fedora fan, and I'm not sure if I'm sold on it over linuxmce
Aug 01 23:03:43 <LarrySteeze> Well I commend you for at least looking at the wiki
Aug 01 23:07:48 <PatrickC> summatusmentis: here's my changelog assistant http://pastebin.com/XxjL68kb
Aug 01 23:08:12 <summatusmentis> dude, I don't know anything about the code
Aug 01 23:08:23 <PatrickC> oh. ok
Aug 01 23:08:29 <PatrickC> anyone else?
Aug 01 23:08:36 <LarrySteeze> gimme a sec
Aug 01 23:09:06 <LarrySteeze> are you encountering a specific issue?
Aug 01 23:09:11 <PatrickC> yes
Aug 01 23:09:17 <LarrySteeze> sorry, you probably said something that I missed
Aug 01 23:09:18 <PatrickC> lemme paste my stageAssistant too
Aug 01 23:09:22 <PatrickC> that's fine
Aug 01 23:09:40 <PatrickC> http://pastebin.com/L23hpq5j
Aug 01 23:10:02 <PatrickC> if I put the versionCookie in the setup, or where it currently is, it throws an error
Aug 01 23:10:17 <LarrySteeze> in which function
Aug 01 23:10:24 <LarrySteeze> either one?
Aug 01 23:10:35 <LarrySteeze> brb'
Aug 01 23:10:38 <PatrickC> setup
Aug 01 23:10:39 <PatrickC> ok
Aug 01 23:15:13 <LarrySteeze> you're starting versioncookie before the function?
Aug 01 23:15:23 <PatrickC> that's how they do it
Aug 01 23:15:35 <PatrickC> and if I place it in setup, it still thrown the error
Aug 01 23:15:58 <LarrySteeze> I guess I've always done it wrong
Aug 01 23:16:19 <PatrickC> I have always done it in the setup too..
Aug 01 23:16:23 <PatrickC> that's why it confused me
Aug 01 23:17:11 <PatrickC> I can give you the src I got it from.. if that would help
Aug 01 23:17:15 <LarrySteeze> but it's only referenced the once...hold on
Aug 01 23:17:30 <PatrickC> ok
Aug 01 23:17:38 <LarrySteeze> and I'm sorry...I'm in the final stages of making barbacoa, so I just have to make sure the bottom doesn't burn
Aug 01 23:17:59 <PatrickC> lol that's fine
Aug 01 23:18:10 <PatrickC> and we should probably take this chat to #webos or PM..
Aug 01 23:55:04 <plem> for xecutah and xserver , is the developer firmware still needed with the new update?
Aug 01 23:55:22 <dtzWill> plem: very good question! someone try it and lmk! :D
Aug 01 23:55:33 <dtzWill> i'd imagine not, but i haven't personally investigated.
Aug 01 23:55:40 <summatusmentis> I just tried it, works fine
Aug 01 23:55:48 <plem> how would I know if it worked or did not?
Aug 01 23:56:06 <summatusmentis> the reason the dev firmware was needed was because of a bug in the vkb
Aug 01 23:56:23 <summatusmentis> but the vkb pops right up in xecutah in 3.0.2
Aug 01 23:57:02 <plem> ok. time to play with some lvm and install ubuntu .  can't wait!
Aug 02 00:03:44 <dtzWill> plem-: :D yeah it's awesome fun, gl sir
Aug 02 00:03:52 <dtzWill> touchpad keybindings are still WIP
Aug 02 00:04:07 <dtzWill> well mostly I need to get around to packaging them up nicely >_>
Aug 02 00:04:40 <plem-> dtzWill: thanks.  i will let the channel know when i get it done.  looking forward to this.
Aug 02 00:04:50 <plem-> "i have linux in my linux!"
Aug 02 00:04:52 <dtzWill> still no support for control/etc, but that's largely b/c we have a lack of good ideas/people behind those ideas in terms of what makes sense on that front.
Aug 02 00:05:15 <dtzWill> but in the pipeline already is support for the vkb buttons other than things like the euro symbol.
Aug 02 00:05:20 <dtzWill> atm the testin feed doesn't support..shift :(
Aug 02 00:07:27 <plem-> good to know
Aug 02 00:07:40 <Simon80> hey dtzWill, I'm wondering if we should keep our versions roughly in sync for VBA
Aug 02 00:08:05 <dtzWill> Simon80: hey, sorry I didn't respond before :).
Aug 02 00:08:08 <Simon80> np
Aug 02 00:08:10 <dtzWill> good to see you on IRC :)
Aug 02 00:08:20 <Simon80> yeah :P
Aug 02 00:08:35 <dtzWill> Simon80: i'd favor keeping them sync'd as much as possible, yes.
Aug 02 00:08:40 <Simon80> ok, cool
Aug 02 00:09:00 <dtzWill> inevitably i think we'll want a pixi branch, just for things that don't make sense to merge? but if they merge that's good too :)
Aug 02 00:09:03 <Simon80> the downside is we sort of need to coordinate releases, but when I think about it, not really
Aug 02 00:09:35 <Simon80> yeah, I think we should basically do our own thing, but try to pull changes across from the other side as much as possible
Aug 02 00:09:53 <Simon80> and versioned releases can work like that too, when I think about it
Aug 02 00:10:17 <dtzWill> we recently switched git control mechanisms, not sure if i still can make the needed changes... haven't bothered since i've had what i've needed.
Aug 02 00:10:35 <dtzWill> anyway i'll forward your key to rwhitby and he'll set you up with access to the repo
Aug 02 00:10:37 <pantsoftime> xyz :O
Aug 02 00:10:39 <Simon80> ok
Aug 02 00:10:50 <pantsoftime> haha
Aug 02 00:10:59 <dtzWill> also is that bug re:SDL_GetTicks for real?!
Aug 02 00:10:59 <pantsoftime> dtz gets corrected to xyz D:
Aug 02 00:11:02 <dtzWill> that's insane
Aug 02 00:11:08 <dtzWill> 33 /seconds/ hahaha
Aug 02 00:11:16 <Simon80> It has to be kernel/hardware, but I swear to you
Aug 02 00:11:35 <Simon80> I had code saying basically, if now < lastNow, printf
Aug 02 00:11:37 <dtzWill> wowza. and looking at the SDL source SDL_GetTicks is just a syscall to gettimeofday
Aug 02 00:11:40 <Simon80> yeah
Aug 02 00:11:43 <Simon80> exactly
Aug 02 00:12:07 <Simon80>  I was amused at that point, I didn't think I could have been at fault there
Aug 02 00:12:14 <Simon80> but I was really happy to have found it
Aug 02 00:13:21 <dtzWill> for real. how the devil anything works when the kernel reports times off by 33 seconds is.... interesting.
Aug 02 00:13:31 <dtzWill> haha, well good find.
Aug 02 00:13:38 <Simon80> thanks
Aug 02 00:13:55 <Simon80> I had to find it though, VBA was freezing whenever that happened
Aug 02 00:14:00 <Simon80> and it wasn't previously
Aug 02 00:14:29 <Simon80> so I was somehow on the hook for it unless I figured it out
Aug 02 00:15:20 <Simon80> how many people actually have Pixis though? I'm wondering now
Aug 02 00:17:15 <dtzWill> Simon80: you should be added, see http://git.webos-internals.org/games/visualboyadvance/
Aug 02 00:17:27 <Simon80> cool, thanks
Aug 02 00:17:40 <dtzWill> should be able to use the git@ url, git@git.webos-internals.org:games/visualboyadvance
Aug 02 00:17:55 <dtzWill> lmk if you have any issues or questions :), and thanks again for your work :D
Aug 02 00:18:03 <Simon80> np, and thanks
Aug 02 00:18:32 <Simon80> so, how about building?
Aug 02 00:18:56 <dtzWill> ah, of course.
Aug 02 00:19:13 <dtzWill> actually i wonder if build.git can natively build vba these days
Aug 02 00:19:13 <Simon80> for what goes on in the Preware makefile, it seems like one might as well just upload finished ipks or tarballs or something and have the makefile process that instead
Aug 02 00:19:22 <dtzWill> Simon80: what toolchain are you using?
Aug 02 00:19:23 <Simon80> that would be interesting too
Aug 02 00:19:51 <Simon80> I'm using CS arm2007q3, but I can switch to 2011, I didn't think of statically linking libstdc++
Aug 02 00:19:58 <Simon80> I just gave up at that point
Aug 02 00:20:15 <Simon80> normally static linking is sort of something I don't do
Aug 02 00:20:17 <dtzWill> heh, yeah. will i'd use 2007q3 except it failed to build the pre version iirc
Aug 02 00:20:26 <Simon80> it chokes on GBA.cpp
Aug 02 00:20:29 <Simon80> memory-wise
Aug 02 00:20:34 <dtzWill> Simon80: statically linking libstdc++ isn't pretty :)
Aug 02 00:20:45 <dtzWill> was it a memory issue? I thought it was some codegen issue, but it's been a while.
Aug 02 00:20:46 <Simon80> the code size probably doesn't change by that much though
Aug 02 00:20:58 <pantsoftime> dtzWill: I'd like to discuss with you sometime my results with using a posix overlay with the chroot environment
Aug 02 00:21:14 <dtzWill> i just saw on codesourcery lists that it was a known bug fixed in next release so went with that
Aug 02 00:21:22 <dtzWill> forget exactly which version was needed to fix.
Aug 02 00:21:30 <Simon80> yeah, there was some regression
Aug 02 00:21:42 <Simon80> apparently older versions of gcc don't choke on it either
Aug 02 00:21:50 <dtzWill> using 2011 was just a case of "newer compiler is hopefully better" syndrome on my part :).
Aug 02 00:21:56 <Simon80> yeah, for sure
Aug 02 00:22:14 <Simon80> I tried, too, but I have shared linking ... syndrome too
Aug 02 00:22:32 <Simon80> btw, Debian's VBA package dealt with the same problem by passing O0 for the entire build, lol
Aug 02 00:22:45 <dtzWill> Simon80: yeah, that worked but is..obviously unacceptable :)
Aug 02 00:22:54 <dtzWill> i think i actually made a very early release using that trick hehe
Aug 02 00:22:59 <dtzWill> 'trick' o_O
Aug 02 00:23:02 <Simon80> yeah
Aug 02 00:23:15 <Simon80> at least one could pass it only for the problematic file
Aug 02 00:23:21 <Simon80> (although that doesn't help much either)
Aug 02 00:23:26 <Simon80> considering which file it is
Aug 02 00:23:37 <Simon80> it's borked in other ways too
Aug 02 00:24:01 <Simon80> to the point of being unusable if you want to run things in real-time
Aug 02 00:24:10 <Simon80> I need to stop being offtopic though
Aug 02 00:24:25 <dtzWill> hmm maybe a binary repo is suitable for now, and would get your off the ground the fastest
Aug 02 00:25:01 <dtzWill> build.git could build froms ource, but then you have less control on things like adding misc resources/skins/etc
Aug 02 00:25:21 <Simon80> well, we could commit those to the main repo to add them though, right?
Aug 02 00:25:33 <Simon80> but what env does build.git run under?
Aug 02 00:25:50 <dtzWill> Simon80: just invokes toolchains with proper flags, like how we build vba these days
Aug 02 00:26:10 <dtzWill> but it's desirable for transparency reasons to build from source when we can, is the idea.
Aug 02 00:26:17 <Simon80> yeah, for sure
Aug 02 00:26:25 <dtzWill> public build logs, etc
Aug 02 00:26:29 <Simon80> and I would prefer that if it doesn't involve too much hassle
Aug 02 00:26:37 <dtzWill> well i'll poke at it :)
Aug 02 00:26:39 <Simon80> who passes --host to configure?
Aug 02 00:26:52 <dtzWill> Simon80: well i'd be scripting how it'll build it
Aug 02 00:26:57 <Simon80> oh, ok
Aug 02 00:27:00 <Simon80> well, sure
Aug 02 00:27:25 <Simon80> where does zlib come from in your releases?
Aug 02 00:27:36 <dtzWill> the system zlib?
Aug 02 00:27:56 <Simon80> yeah, it's not part of the PDK, so technically the app cat version isn't supposed to link to it
Aug 02 00:28:02 <Simon80> are you saying they still accept that?
Aug 02 00:28:19 <dtzWill> i'm definitely saying that.
Aug 02 00:28:20 <dtzWill> :)
Aug 02 00:28:23 <dtzWill> also it's zlib :(
Aug 02 00:28:24 <Simon80> sweet
Aug 02 00:28:33 <pantsoftime> :O
Aug 02 00:28:48 <Simon80> I don't get the sadface
Aug 02 00:29:12 <dtzWill> Simon80: if i were to add you to the Maintainer list, you want 'Sinmon80', or...?
Aug 02 00:29:13 <Simon80> but then why'd you disable libpng recently?
Aug 02 00:29:15 <dtzWill> *Simon80
Aug 02 00:29:33 <Simon80> depends how prevalent real names are around here I guess
Aug 02 00:29:46 <dtzWill> Simon80: oh i just wanted the stock PDK to build
Aug 02 00:29:51 <Simon80> ah
Aug 02 00:29:56 <Simon80> but then there's zlib
Aug 02 00:30:00 <Simon80> maybe that's why you're sad
Aug 02 00:30:05 <dtzWill> and it includes libz
Aug 02 00:30:11 <Simon80> oh, really?
Aug 02 00:30:16 <Simon80> the 2.0 one does?
Aug 02 00:30:22 <dtzWill> uhhh mine does.
Aug 02 00:30:24 <Simon80> or am I lost somewhere with 1.4.5
Aug 02 00:30:25 <Simon80> hrm
Aug 02 00:30:43 <dtzWill> mine might be a combination of a number of things
Aug 02 00:30:51 <Simon80> also, sorry to the people in the rest of the channel for spamming you with short messages like hrm
Aug 02 00:31:07 <Simon80> rest of the people in the channel*
Aug 02 00:31:24 <Simon80> I got mine by using cross-compile.git
Aug 02 00:31:50 <dtzWill> Simon80: no worries, dev is plenty on-topic, but see pm anyway :)
Aug 02 00:32:00 <Simon80> ok
Aug 02 00:32:20 <Simon80> do you want to move this discussion over then?
Aug 02 00:32:51 <IGNTNUNLMTD> so anyone else having post-Update patch issues?
Aug 02 00:33:23 <summatusmentis> I had a couple of the ones that reduce logging levels fail
Aug 02 00:33:41 <summatusmentis> I assuemed it was because the update already fixed them
Aug 02 00:34:16 <plem-> why does wirc have so many mount points?
Aug 02 00:34:18 <IGNTNUNLMTD> yeah those are those that failed for me too.
Aug 02 00:36:37 <plem-> and does it need those mounts even when wirc is not running?
Aug 02 00:40:37 <dwc-> those are added by the jailing process
Aug 02 00:40:49 <dwc-> that is outside an application's control...
Aug 02 00:40:54 <dwc-> and no, it isn't needed when wirc isn't running
Aug 02 00:43:14 <plem-> just curious, i am trying to reduce the logcal volume but to do that i have to unmount /media/internal and it is busy.  i noticed that wirc and something from omastudios was mounted even when program were not running
Aug 02 00:43:43 <plem-> then again maybe i am also going about this the wrong way but it is a good learning experience for me too
Aug 02 00:44:24 <Mordac> any ideas about TP virtual keyboard mapping and xterm? I'm not able to get caps are tab. don't know if this is normal or something on my end.
Aug 02 00:44:57 <dtzWill> Mordac: that's normal, sorry. fixes in the pipeline :)
Aug 02 00:45:30 <Mordac> kickass tx!
Aug 02 00:49:22 <rwhitby> plem-: reboot to clear the mounts
Aug 02 00:49:51 <plem-> rwhitby: i took care of them with mount | awk | xargs umount  :)
Aug 02 00:51:31 <plem-> just trying to understand now how to umount /media/internal since it stays its busy but lsof shows nothing pointing to it.
Aug 02 00:57:08 <rwhitby> plem-: I hope you're following some good instructions about this
Aug 02 00:57:29 <PatrickC> hey rwhitby.. who's the main dev of Govnah, you or oil?
Aug 02 00:58:00 <plem-> rwhitby:  I am not but I know when I should just let sleeping dogs lie.  I am going to stop where I am.  no changes made so no harm should be done.  rather wait untill smarter people figure this stuff out. :)
Aug 02 00:58:32 <rwhitby> PatrickC: why does it matter. you have the source code and a git repo which shows all commits by all devs.
Aug 02 00:59:19 <PatrickC> ok.. and I was wondering as I was trying to make a changelog scene like it has and keep getting an error I don't know how to fix
Aug 02 01:00:12 <IGNTNUNLMTD> rwhitby: is the reason the installs for the log muffling patches failing that they or similar things are included in 3.0.2?
Aug 02 01:00:43 <rwhitby> PatrickC: you have the source code, start from that.
Aug 02 01:00:49 <PatrickC> I did
Aug 02 01:00:55 <rwhitby> PatrickC: open source does not mean free support for anything else you want
Aug 02 01:01:08 <PatrickC> I can't find out where else versionCookie is used
Aug 02 01:01:14 <PatrickC> and that's what throws the error
Aug 02 01:01:39 <rwhitby> that's not our problem, mate. The source code we released works, so the issue is obviously your ability to copy it correctly.
Aug 02 01:02:07 <PatrickC> ok..
Aug 02 01:02:20 <rwhitby> Go back and work out what you have done wrong. Use your debugging skills before bothering others.
Aug 02 01:02:36 <summatusmentis> PatrickC: have you checked out the code? running a cli? try grepping for versionCookie
Aug 02 01:02:52 <rwhitby> Worst case, start with Govnah, and change one thing at a time, making sure it still works each time, until you convert it into your program.
Aug 02 01:02:59 <rwhitby> PatrickC: BTW, what is the license of your app?
Aug 02 01:03:07 <PatrickC> it will be open source
Aug 02 01:03:14 <PatrickC> licence has yet to be decided
Aug 02 01:03:17 <summatusmentis> has to be GPL, for the record
Aug 02 01:03:22 <rwhitby> yep
Aug 02 01:03:26 <PatrickC> then that's what it is
Aug 02 01:03:38 <rwhitby> PatrickC: since you're making a derivative work by copying code, you don't get a choice.
Aug 02 01:03:44 <summatusmentis> right, that
Aug 02 01:03:57 <summatusmentis> has to be GPL, if you use the code in govnah
Aug 02 01:03:59 <PatrickC> its GPL. I'll add the license in the next release
Aug 02 01:04:18 <PatrickC> I've also used code from other open source apps too
Aug 02 01:05:10 <summatusmentis> so yeah, you should do some checking to make sure the licensing terms aren't incompatible
Aug 02 01:05:39 <summatusmentis> but if you use code from GPL software, GPL requires that your code be GPL
Aug 02 01:06:19 <PatrickC> does GPL allow selling of the app?
Aug 02 01:06:25 <PatrickC> (reading thru the license now)
Aug 02 01:06:25 <IGNTNUNLMTD> nope
Aug 02 01:06:28 <summatusmentis> it doesn't disallow it
Aug 02 01:06:35 <IGNTNUNLMTD> really?
Aug 02 01:06:35 <PatrickC> ok. that's good
Aug 02 01:06:48 <PatrickC> my app will probably be $0.99-1.99
Aug 02 01:06:49 <summatusmentis> IGNTNUNLMTD: yeah, you can sell GPL software, you just have to provide the code
Aug 02 01:07:04 <summatusmentis> Koto Player is GPL, iirc, and has a pay-for version
Aug 02 01:07:06 <PatrickC> I'll use github for that
Aug 02 01:07:16 <IGNTNUNLMTD> ah, so anyone who can package it can get it for free
Aug 02 01:07:19 <IGNTNUNLMTD> basically
Aug 02 01:07:20 <summatusmentis> yep
Aug 02 01:07:27 <summatusmentis> package/compile
Aug 02 01:07:29 <PatrickC> I've done that with koto
Aug 02 01:07:38 <PatrickC> to try and do some stuff with it
Aug 02 01:08:12 <PatrickC> IGNTNUNLMTD: When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not price. Our General Public Licenses are designed to make sure that you have the freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for them if you wish), that you receive
Aug 02 01:08:13 <PatrickC> source code or can get it if you want it, that you can change the software or use pieces of it in new free programs, and that you know you can do these things.
Aug 02 01:08:32 <IGNTNUNLMTD> ah
Aug 02 01:08:37 * rwhitby laments the amount of disinformation and ignorance that is being displayed right now
Aug 02 01:09:18 <IGNTNUNLMTD> I'm a commercial developer and never borrow code, but you're right, I should know this stuff regardless
Aug 02 01:09:28 <summatusmentis> rwhitby: if it's something I said, please feel free to correct me, I don't mean to pass on untruths
Aug 02 01:09:56 <PatrickC> same here.
Aug 02 01:10:46 <rwhitby> Before you touch a piece of code, you must fully read and understand the license of that code. Only then can you use it.
Aug 02 01:10:58 <rwhitby> Doesn't matter where the code comes from.
Aug 02 01:11:56 <rwhitby> Taking open source code under one license and releasing it under an incompatible license is exactly the same severity as stealing windows source code from Microsoft.
Aug 02 01:13:26 <PatrickC> really? wow
Aug 02 01:20:25 <rwhitby> both a violations of copyright law
Aug 02 01:20:33 <rwhitby> s/ a / are /
Aug 02 01:20:33 <infobot> rwhitby meant: both are violations of copyright law
Aug 02 01:21:12 <summatusmentis> that's the aussie accent coming out :-P
Aug 02 01:21:16 <IGNTNUNLMTD> haha
Aug 02 01:21:59 <PatrickC> lol
Aug 02 01:22:39 <IGNTNUNLMTD> rwhitby: 404's on feed update normal right now?
Aug 02 01:23:37 <rwhitby> IGNTNUNLMTD: you might want to follow @webosinternals around OTA update times
Aug 02 01:26:05 <IGNTNUNLMTD> rwhitby: I do; what instruction did I miss, other than the 24h period? Or is that the one?
Aug 02 01:26:56 <IGNTNUNLMTD> I removed and reinstalled what I had, and that all worked, save for the muffling patches
Aug 02 01:27:36 <IGNTNUNLMTD> And just now (a few minutes ago) Preware started throwing 404 errors
Aug 02 01:29:35 <ka6sox> IGNTNUNLMTD, patience please :D
Aug 02 01:30:31 <IGNTNUNLMTD> I don't mean to sound like I'm begging for a fix; I'm sorry... I'm actually curious as to the cause
Aug 02 01:31:03 <ka6sox> good fixes take time...
Aug 02 01:31:03 <rwhitby> IGNTNUNLMTD: feeds for 3.0.2 don't just magically appear out of nowhere
Aug 02 01:33:00 <IGNTNUNLMTD> I understand that; judging by your tweet from ~12 minutes ago, I thought that meant they'd been set up; it's the only reason I asked. Sorry for the bother.
Aug 02 01:34:28 <rwhitby> jhowirc: why did you push an untested kernel build to the autobuilder?
Aug 02 01:40:23 <AtomicPlayboy> rwhitby: I'm guessing there's no 3.0.2 feeds yet
Aug 02 01:40:25 <AtomicPlayboy> ?
Aug 02 01:40:40 <AtomicPlayboy> Rather, nothing IN them, so they aren't on the site?
Aug 02 01:42:06 * NuttyBunny shares the couch and the popcorn
Aug 02 01:42:27 <NuttyBunny> 2 since I got here
Aug 02 01:46:19 <IGNTNUNLMTD> AtomicPlayboy: no, they're not up yet, check twitter
Aug 02 01:46:42 <AtomicPlayboy> Couldn't get twitter earlier, no Internet
Aug 02 01:46:47 <AtomicPlayboy> Checking now
Aug 02 01:50:00 <IGNTNUNLMTD> I'll save you the time, AtomicPlayboy: within 24 hours
Aug 02 01:50:11 <AtomicPlayboy> Yeah I saw
Aug 02 01:50:29 <AtomicPlayboy> I can wait, I just wanted to know what's going on
Aug 02 01:51:54 <AtomicPlayboy> Already installed the update, but no issues so far.
Aug 02 02:02:40 <Tibfib_> YEAH SO THINK TWICE ABOUT TOUCHING KOTO
Aug 02 02:05:20 * oil touches koto
Aug 02 02:06:11 <IGNTNUNLMTD> dirty
Aug 02 02:06:12 * Tibfib sues oil
Aug 02 02:06:30 <Tibfib> oil is very dirty
Aug 02 02:06:45 <IGNTNUNLMTD> Apple sues Tibfib because Apple patented suing
Aug 02 02:06:50 <oil> hah
Aug 02 02:06:57 * oil has nothing, sue away
Aug 02 02:16:10 <haeffb> rwhitby: if I take a piece of GPL code and use it verbatim within an app...is that creating a derivative work? Or is permitted by GPL license?
Aug 02 02:16:35 <etx`> I'm really bummed, my touchpad wont download the ota update :(
Aug 02 02:16:46 <rwhitby> haeffb: your app will then be GPL
Aug 02 02:17:13 <summatusmentis> haeffb: in taking a piece of GPL code, it becomes derivative, as I understand it
Aug 02 02:17:57 <rwhitby> GPL infects anything it touches, intentionally.
Aug 02 02:18:17 <haeffb> so, one couldn't use an MIT-licensed library and a GPL-licensed library in the same app...
Aug 02 02:18:42 <etx`> gpl is like an awesome virus
Aug 02 02:19:58 <haeffb> how can one use Prototype in GPL mojo apps... ?
Aug 02 02:20:15 <rwhitby> haeffb: you can, the result is GPL.
Aug 02 02:20:44 <rwhitby> it doesn't change the input code, it only infects the output code.
Aug 02 02:21:50 <haeffb> no other licenses have similar "infectious" properties?
Aug 02 02:22:02 <summatusmentis> I'm not aware of any
Aug 02 02:27:23 <haeffb> "// Redistributable under a BSD-style open source license."
Aug 02 02:38:37 <etx`> damn, im going to have to dr this touchpad to get the ota update I think :/
Aug 02 02:38:52 <etx`> been trying for hours to figure it out, /var/log/messages doesn't give me much help
Aug 02 02:47:51 <etx`> oh, awesome! the 3.0.2 doctor is available
Aug 02 02:47:59 <etx`> that makes me less upset heh
Aug 02 02:48:06 <Abyssul> haha
Aug 02 02:48:20 <etx`> guess ill have to add a ext3 partition while im at it
Aug 02 02:49:32 <etx`> hopefully the kernel source will be available soon too so we can get some 1.5ghz action
Aug 02 02:50:09 <etx`> debug output from messages totally makes me think webos is drawing apps with opengl
Aug 02 02:50:30 <etx`> i wonder to what degree
Aug 02 02:55:07 <etx`> is 2gb big enough for a ubuntu chroot?
Aug 02 02:55:14 <PatrickC> on touchpad?
Aug 02 02:55:19 <etx`> yeah
Aug 02 02:55:28 <PatrickC> 16 or 32GB?
Aug 02 02:55:38 <scoutcamper> etx`, depends on what you are using it for
Aug 02 02:55:45 <Abyssul> Make it 4gb
Aug 02 02:55:49 <Abyssul> 2gb seems small
Aug 02 02:55:51 <PatrickC> the more the merrier
Aug 02 02:55:59 <PatrickC> I'll probably do 6 or 8GB
Aug 02 02:55:59 <etx`> yeah, 2gb isn't gonna work for me
Aug 02 02:56:24 <PatrickC> anyone know if stuff like palm-package works with the chroot?
Aug 02 02:56:34 <etx`> yeah ill try 4gb for now
Aug 02 02:59:18 <Abyssul> Time to do some Pre2 battery statistic testing
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Aug 02 02:59:57 2011