**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Sep 06 02:59:56 2011 Sep 06 03:01:30 ... It appears to be as simple as setting an environment variable.... Sep 06 03:01:31 wow Sep 06 03:02:52 If you do go through the trouble of compiling the other plugins it'd be cool to have them available in preware Sep 06 03:04:29 oh believe me, I'm not compiling anything outside of the preware git now Sep 06 03:04:42 what did I miss wrt pulseaudio? Sep 06 03:04:55 I'm trying to get pulseaudio streaming working on the touchpad Sep 06 03:04:57 if someone is messing with it, I'd like to be involved... Sep 06 03:04:59 oh Sep 06 03:04:59 :P Sep 06 03:05:14 Having avahi on it with pulseaudio would make discovery a lot easier too Sep 06 03:05:34 i'd like to recompile it with a2dp bitpool support in PmBt[Engine/Stack] Sep 06 03:05:49 such a pain not being able to have good quality Sep 06 03:06:17 something tells me it's going to need hardcoding with pulse Sep 06 03:06:27 ie. no reversing of PmBt* Sep 06 03:06:48 M25: lots of pulse stuff in /etc Sep 06 03:07:03 Could always ask Lennart about it in #pulseaudio Sep 06 03:07:04 yeah, that'll be where I make my permanent config fix Sep 06 03:07:08 right now just testing if it'll work Sep 06 03:07:43 Lennart isn't in pulseaudio right now Sep 06 03:08:56 Its been awhile, he might not be the active maintainer as he is working on systemd now Sep 06 03:09:16 Well, if you ask in there someone will be able to help Sep 06 03:11:56 LOL Sep 06 03:12:19 ? Sep 06 03:12:20 what? lol Sep 06 03:12:23 does anybody here know of working haptic feedback for the TP? Sep 06 03:13:26 evulhotdog, what are you going to use that for? Sep 06 03:13:57 what do you mean? I am going to use it so I know when the screen realizes that It knows I touched it....as feedback. Sep 06 03:14:00 Hey uNiXpSyChO ! Sep 06 03:14:09 yo Sep 06 03:14:25 ka6sox-away did you mean something else by that or Sep 06 03:14:25 ? Sep 06 03:14:42 evulhotdog, to wake up the TP? Sep 06 03:14:52 wake up? Sep 06 03:15:05 I mean like...so when i touch the screen it viberates, in applications etc... Sep 06 03:15:16 okay....understood. Sep 06 03:15:16 well, now I've got no sound... Sep 06 03:15:37 ka6sox-away do you know of any solutions Sep 06 03:16:31 nope Sep 06 03:17:39 lol Sep 06 03:19:04 I love God! Sep 06 03:19:10 ...didn't logan302 get kicked already? Sep 06 03:19:28 if you get kicked, you can rejoin Sep 06 03:19:55 PatrickC, who says? Sep 06 03:20:04 i was never kicked Sep 06 03:20:12 ka6sox-away: I've been kicked before Sep 06 03:20:16 and I just rejoined Sep 06 03:20:26 See, I personally would take the hint :P Sep 06 03:20:27 now, it was just a regular kick. not a kb Sep 06 03:21:06 M25: it was because I was asking stupid questions. I was told that once I finished doing was I was told to do, I could rejoin Sep 06 03:22:58 hmm. configure isn't finding ncurses Sep 06 03:23:02 does anyone know of a good way to restart pulseaudio? Every command I try says I don't have access, and I'm already root Sep 06 03:23:29 check the .d folder Sep 06 03:23:34 it should be in there Sep 06 03:23:50 Yeah Sep 06 03:24:51 passing LDFLAGS="-L../../../cross-compile/rootfs/armv7/usr/lib" should work Sep 06 03:25:04 is there anyone directly working on getting android apps working in a card? Sep 06 03:27:19 W0lver1ne, not afaik Sep 06 03:27:52 W0lver1ne: that would be incredibly technically challenging Sep 06 03:28:16 you'd have to get the entire android stack running on top of webOS, then get the two very different display managers to talk to each other Sep 06 03:28:21 to say nothing of the memory management Sep 06 03:28:28 and the fact that android runs entirely in a JVM Sep 06 03:28:53 ubuntu worx in a card how is that different? Sep 06 03:29:29 that's a chroot, and it's using the x11 port that dtzWill and others have spent many months on Sep 06 03:29:58 android as an OS doesn't even use X, which is a standard graphical library in C, something that's relatively easy to port Sep 06 03:30:29 anyone know if android even runs on the type of kernel the touchpad comes with by default? Sep 06 03:32:06 no Sep 06 03:32:30 there is already a dual boot minus a working touchscreen Sep 06 03:33:04 i figued apps would be no prob since BB does it Sep 06 03:34:15 M25, would you mind putting you makefile for sshfs on pastebin? Sep 06 03:34:48 wrea: it's in the git repo, afaik. rwhitby, is this right? Sep 06 03:35:04 yep Sep 06 03:35:12 and the package is in preware Sep 06 03:36:16 * M25 is so proud Sep 06 03:37:23 :) Sep 06 03:37:37 Maybe one day I'll have a few in there Sep 06 03:37:46 M25...that was on rwhitby's christmas list... Sep 06 03:38:11 I'm back to working on kismet. Thinking I can use it with a usb card and ext power. Sep 06 03:38:54 what's kismet? Sep 06 03:39:11 http://www.kismetwireless.net/ Sep 06 03:39:48 whoaaa Sep 06 03:39:55 what're you poking into? Sep 06 03:40:17 I think I have libnl and libpcap properly packaged, so now I'm working on kismet Sep 06 03:40:57 wrea: war driving with a touchpad? Sep 06 03:41:45 Yeah Sep 06 03:42:31 There is a A-N usb stick with ext. antennas I'm looking at too Sep 06 03:43:32 the tp does usb host, right? just need external power? Sep 06 03:44:05 Looks like it afaik. Heard people getting usb keyboards working on it too Sep 06 03:51:31 trying once more for pulse streaming Sep 06 03:51:32 woo Sep 06 03:52:43 Is there any possiblity of a patch being able to rotate the emulator on the touchpad such that it can go into landscape mode? Sep 06 03:52:57 W0lver1ne: looks like somebody has a uinput proxy for the touchscreen, waiting on them ot release source Sep 06 03:58:34 Heh. Wardriving. Sep 06 03:58:46 I still have my 18dbi Wifi Antenna. It's a 3 foot pipe. Sep 06 03:59:08 Only card I've got with an antenna jack is a PCMCIA card though Sep 06 03:59:11 Antenna/beating stick Sep 06 04:00:31 W0lver1ne: oh sorry Sep 06 04:01:12 Well, it got me free internet for about 3 years when people were still using Wifi in B mode and without WEP Sep 06 04:01:58 03:31 < W0lver1ne> there is already a dual boot minus a working touchscreen Sep 06 04:02:01 I lived in a very densely populated block full of wanna-be alisters that they all had cable when it was still too expensive to even get DSL Sep 06 04:02:07 that's why I was just responding to that comment Sep 06 04:02:14 roadkill, lol Sep 06 04:02:18 about the working touchscreen Sep 06 04:08:45 so does anyone actually have a touchscreen working? Sep 06 04:08:54 i saw the dual doot Sep 06 04:09:22 i just refuse to pay a grand for an ipad Sep 06 04:09:42 can you beleive they are cahrging that? Sep 06 04:09:49 charging Sep 06 04:13:45 if HP could get away with that :) Sep 06 04:17:16 Hey Guys! I just got a tp tonight. Sep 06 04:17:42 I have it patched and overclocked. Sep 06 04:18:02 What are you guys working on Sep 06 04:18:20 I want to help if I can Sep 06 04:18:36 wb W0lver1ne Sep 06 04:19:49 grats Sep 06 04:19:56 wow A smart one Sep 06 04:20:26 geist: why is touchpad touchpanel using uart? Sep 06 04:20:59 hmm? Sep 06 04:21:07 what do you mean using uart? Sep 06 04:21:24 hey guys can you help me wit sometin? Sep 06 04:21:30 wb M25 Sep 06 04:21:33 yes Sep 06 04:21:34 it's using uart to output a raw data stream made up of a bitmap image of the capacitence values Sep 06 04:21:51 hah, is it doing that all the time? Sep 06 04:21:58 so apparently the TCP module isn't on the touchpad by default Sep 06 04:22:05 after negotiating the setup over i2c, i2c is disabled and it outputs via 8060's hsuart Sep 06 04:22:14 M25, not surprising Sep 06 04:22:14 yeah it seems so from stracing hidd Sep 06 04:22:21 oh, and pulseaudio is apparently able to say fuckyou to root priveleges Sep 06 04:22:28 tmzt: if it's not actually connecting to anything, it's probably debugging Sep 06 04:22:40 some left over factory bits so they can test the panel Sep 06 04:22:40 whenever I try and download a kernel from prepare it gives me an error-check upon log how do I fix it? Sep 06 04:22:53 i betcha that uart just goes to a set of pads on the main board Sep 06 04:23:01 *preware Sep 06 04:23:02 so the firmware isn't doing finger tracking like most other installations of this controller chip do Sep 06 04:23:17 i dont know, i have had nothing at all to do with the touchpad Sep 06 04:23:21 no I mean hidd opens /dev/ctp_uart and reads from it as long as the touchpanel is in use Sep 06 04:23:33 yeah thought so Sep 06 04:23:38 ooooh, i see Sep 06 04:23:40 you' Sep 06 04:23:54 you're saying the touchpanel controller is dumping the data to the main cpu via a uart Sep 06 04:23:58 sure, why not? Sep 06 04:24:11 yep, but it's not that it's the format it's using Sep 06 04:24:18 all the processing is being done in the hidd plugins Sep 06 04:24:27 instead of the firmware of the touchpanel controller Sep 06 04:24:29 pre did it that way too, it gets a raw matrix of capacitance values Sep 06 04:24:41 anyone for my problem? Sep 06 04:24:56 it's actually quite nice, you can fix all sorts of stuff with software and dont rely on the tp manufacturer to get it right Sep 06 04:25:01 generally speaking, they're idiots Sep 06 04:25:04 I thought it might have something to do with the omap3 supporting ssp better than i2c Sep 06 04:25:26 i think the pre talked to the panel over spi, but same principle Sep 06 04:26:14 this conversation doesn't happen to be related to getting touch-screen working on cyanogenmod, does it? Sep 06 04:26:28 any idea if lk actually works on these touchpad's, we have the source for the surf 8x60 Sep 06 04:27:19 M25: of course, they are reimplementing hidd's logic as a uinput proxy and optionally as a more direct plugin to the android input infrastructure, but I don't much more about that, CM likes to release when it's 'ready' Sep 06 04:27:54 tmzt: well, since bootie is a derivative of lk, then there's some universe whwere it runs, alas it's locked up at hp :) Sep 06 04:28:10 tmzt: I've been using computers since before I could walk... I took apart my first hard drive at 8 years old... And I have no earthly idea what the hell you just said Sep 06 04:28:52 Took apart a hard drive? Sep 06 04:28:54 geist: yeah, have to get the fb driver working and strip out the init stuff ot get it booting as uimage Sep 06 04:28:57 That must have been useful Sep 06 04:28:57 =) Sep 06 04:29:04 but it should be usable, even with aboot app Sep 06 04:29:14 M25: same here Sep 06 04:29:25 M25: the first part :) Sep 06 04:29:39 zack whats your problem? Sep 06 04:29:50 tmzt: cool Sep 06 04:29:53 whenever I try and download a kernel from prepare it gives me an error-check upon log how do I fix it? Sep 06 04:29:56 M25: hidd is the utility on webos that processes input from kernel devices and sends events to luna via a named pipe/fifo Sep 06 04:30:04 *preware Sep 06 04:30:32 ipkg log don't know how to fix it Sep 06 04:30:52 M25: uinput is a kernel driver that allows input events to be submitted to the kernel from userspace and creeats a matching input device that other processes can read from Sep 06 04:31:05 zack: Whats the exact error message? I don't know much, but I can google Sep 06 04:31:31 tmzt: why do we have to route everything through the kernel? Can't we keep it in userspace? Sep 06 04:31:51 android loves to read all of its stuff via /dev/input/* Sep 06 04:32:02 ah. That'll do it. Sep 06 04:32:03 we took a different tract at palm and just did hidd to cook all of it Sep 06 04:32:10 geist: this feels like getting msm_fb working from asm on the msm7x01 which would have worked if they hadn't give me the wrong layout for CE's XIP images Sep 06 04:32:35 you know, one thing i'm so happy about right now: not having to deal with qualcomm cpus Sep 06 04:32:39 check IPKG log Sep 06 04:32:43 hah yeah Sep 06 04:32:44 my quality of life is so much higher Sep 06 04:33:06 geist: lol Sep 06 04:33:07 hope you and the omap4/nvidia/samsung/whatever are really happy together :0 Sep 06 04:33:19 yep Sep 06 04:33:20 then checks log it says kernel I have is not in factory condition but I dint have a kernel Sep 06 04:33:33 actually nowadays i'm mostly doing higher level OS design and less nitty gritty Sep 06 04:33:40 kind of nice not to have to worry about all the details Sep 06 04:33:58 I think I'm just going to play with lk on qemu before trying anything on hardware Sep 06 04:34:05 since we don't have qdl recovery or uart Sep 06 04:34:19 yeah, one of these days i'll brush off lk and hack on it some more Sep 06 04:34:36 it's a great approach, linux is just too heavy for this stuff Sep 06 04:34:44 it frankly got to a point that i was happy with given its original problem statement: get some little preemptive system that's easy to port and run on different hardware Sep 06 04:34:48 geist: Man, I write backend logic for web servers professionally, I haven't even SEEN the machines I work on, much less delved into their processor setups :P Sep 06 04:35:08 tmzt, what was the idea of using lk again? Sep 06 04:35:08 everything else from now on out is just layers and modules and drivers and stacks Sep 06 04:35:11 was it meant for dual booting? Sep 06 04:35:36 to display a menu Sep 06 04:35:38 I like the boot procedure Qi uses, reading zImage and a -cmdline from the sd card and booting from it Sep 06 04:35:42 i forget what you guys were talking about Sep 06 04:35:43 rhcp[linux]: yep, basically Sep 06 04:35:43 geist: what's lk? Sep 06 04:35:47 tmzt, I have another way Sep 06 04:35:53 which the pre used Sep 06 04:35:55 M25: it's a little preemptive embedded kernel i wrote a few years back Sep 06 04:36:11 various companies have taken it and used it for various basis for their own projects Sep 06 04:36:21 andriod uses it for their default bootloader, we used it at palm for the basis for bootie Sep 06 04:36:25 rhcp[linux]: we don't want to touch bootie at all (other than symlinking a uImage) until we have full qdl revoery Sep 06 04:36:34 im not touching bootie at all Sep 06 04:36:35 i've currently forked it and turned it into a much larger beast at $currentco Sep 06 04:36:36 pm a sec Sep 06 04:36:36 :) Sep 06 04:36:45 geist: you wrote a kerne...wait...ANDROID USES IT?!?! Sep 06 04:36:46 * M25 bows Sep 06 04:36:50 geist: android git bootloader is lk based? is that recent think or even in the 1.0 days? Sep 06 04:37:01 well, they have a default bootloader, hence the aboot thing Sep 06 04:37:07 @zack: Give this a shot? http://forums.precentral.net/webos-apps/208474-error-installing-see-ipkg-log-2.html#post1989770 Sep 06 04:37:11 though i think pretty much all of their hardware vendors use their own Sep 06 04:37:24 it hasn't been something android has chosen to jam down the vendor's throat Sep 06 04:37:38 QCT however took it for their default bootloader, so i may show up in some phones at some point Sep 06 04:37:49 no, htc just dictates everything on their hardware, that's why so much fun on the g2 :) Sep 06 04:38:00 M25: it's nothing big, just a little embedded system Sep 06 04:38:03 http://git.newos.org/?p=lk.git;a=summary Sep 06 04:38:27 i've found it handy to get running on a board and play around from Sep 06 04:39:04 I've never heard of anyone writing their own kernel... Usually everyone just ports some small version of linux Sep 06 04:39:09 Ty I will try it Sep 06 04:39:17 oh geez yeah i've been writing oses for the last 10 years Sep 06 04:39:28 actually lk is the small one, the much larger system i wrote about 8 years ago called newos Sep 06 04:39:35 and then that got forked and is the kernel for the haiku project Sep 06 04:39:44 * Jack87 wonders if we should save a lot of developer.palm pages somewhere incase hp pulls the plug one day Sep 06 04:39:50 currently working on a microkernel version of lk, kind of neat Sep 06 04:40:05 rhcp[linux]: that symlinks the uImage each boot Sep 06 04:40:20 geist: that is neat... Other than the microkernel version, what does lk have that linux doesn't? Sep 06 04:40:32 tmzt, correct Sep 06 04:40:32 fits into about 10K of ram :) Sep 06 04:40:36 with a gui boot picker Sep 06 04:40:41 * M25 jawfloor Sep 06 04:40:46 botts within a couple 10 ms Sep 06 04:40:52 doesnt touch bootie at all Sep 06 04:41:08 it's not intended to replace linux that i know of, mostly for things like bootloaders possibly embedded os's on certain hardware Sep 06 04:41:09 that's why it worked great for bootie. bootie is pretty sophisticated, totally preemptive, multithreaded Sep 06 04:41:38 is linux preemptive? Also, OSX and windows? Sep 06 04:41:46 most people dont notice it but you can novacom into bootie multiple times, and each one is running a distinct shell Sep 06 04:42:03 they do hardware testing with that, you can test different pieces of hardware simultaneously Sep 06 04:42:06 saw that, helpful since actually exiting novaterm without usb disconnect doesn't seem to work Sep 06 04:42:10 :) Sep 06 04:42:22 you can just kill the novaterm session Sep 06 04:42:30 boot it!! Ur a life saver Sep 06 04:42:41 *got Sep 06 04:42:50 geist: ^ Sep 06 04:43:16 rhcp[linux]: I'm looking for a solution that gives a menu and can boot different kernels/initrds/cmdlines etc. without chaing the bootie config Sep 06 04:43:35 anyway, i'm a os hacker in a rapidly diminishing world of places that need OSes Sep 06 04:43:36 we also need a qdl recovery method which we know should be possible as this device should not be sboot2 enabled Sep 06 04:43:36 tmzt, you can use what i pasted you. Sep 06 04:43:39 it doesnt touch bootie Sep 06 04:43:52 and from what i hear. someone has a usb boot working for TP Sep 06 04:44:13 so the project is still fractured, nothing is gathered in one place Sep 06 04:44:27 you can blame cm for that Sep 06 04:44:38 the hardware might not need modem but it still needs an amss mbn Sep 06 04:44:41 invilually i dont have anything wrong with them. Sep 06 04:44:52 also, lk git can build an appsboot.mbn but we can't use it Sep 06 04:44:52 but, this should be a whole group project and get it done Sep 06 04:44:54 but w/e Sep 06 04:44:54 ) Sep 06 04:45:04 im not going to cry over it Sep 06 04:45:07 there's a lot of blame to go around :0 Sep 06 04:45:16 i dont care tbh Sep 06 04:45:47 if you werent drunk we'd have something cool to show off :P Sep 06 04:45:51 the point of a project like this is to educate people, to get knowledge that is normally behind closed doors out there Sep 06 04:46:06 oh well Sep 06 04:46:07 thats normal Sep 06 04:46:09 I don't really care about symlinking it's not an interesting solution when it requires an extra reboot Sep 06 04:46:28 then figure out LK :) Sep 06 04:46:31 for tp Sep 06 04:46:31 :P Sep 06 04:46:39 we also know that cm is doing there own thing and might someday have a release for tp Sep 06 04:46:47 someday Sep 06 04:46:54 maybe in a year like the SGS models Sep 06 04:46:57 yeah but we need qdl, I don't think it wants to chain Sep 06 04:47:11 or I've got a lot more to strip out Sep 06 04:47:14 why would you want to fool with qualcom? Sep 06 04:47:32 we can ramboot through qdl without touching the flash/emmc Sep 06 04:47:51 and we can replace appsboot to test it Sep 06 04:48:02 not on my TP you are not Sep 06 04:48:03 :P Sep 06 04:48:09 or we can get it to chain through bootie Sep 06 04:48:19 im not fooling around in the qualcom crap anymore Sep 06 04:48:20 :P Sep 06 04:48:25 i can smell a brick waiting Sep 06 04:49:05 do not Sep 06 04:49:22 symlink + extra reboot is fine Sep 06 04:49:23 as i was telling someone in private, the newer msm8ks you do *not* want to mess around with the modem firmware partitions Sep 06 04:49:26 it worked fine for the pre Sep 06 04:49:31 that's brick country Sep 06 04:49:35 geist, i know Sep 06 04:49:38 I have the full dump Sep 06 04:49:39 what each do Sep 06 04:49:46 right we aren't intending to change anything in flash Sep 06 04:49:46 in previous msm chipsets (msm7k or so) all of that junk was hidden on the modem flash Sep 06 04:50:00 so by the time it got to the mmc flash it was already running the modem firmware Sep 06 04:50:01 instead to find a ramboot method Sep 06 04:50:13 as long as you didn't hose the modem flash, it was more or less unbrickable Sep 06 04:50:19 tmzt, I think the one i gave you. linked to Sep 06 04:50:21 is safe Sep 06 04:50:22 and easy Sep 06 04:50:28 the newer msm8ks expose all that junk on mmc. which is handy because its one less chip, but it's a lot more dangerous Sep 06 04:50:50 but they have to have something in rom to boot the emmc Sep 06 04:51:03 yea a kernel on /boot Sep 06 04:51:06 bit deal Sep 06 04:51:09 thats not going to brick you Sep 06 04:51:27 especially since as we found in g2 they don't use the boot modes on the emmc exactly as intended and actually start in a limited mmc 4.0 protocol Sep 06 04:51:55 yep, mmc 4.2+ adds a limited boot mode where if you toggle some lines it'll just start spewing out the first N sectors Sep 06 04:52:02 rhcp[linux]: sure it's safe but that's not the point Sep 06 04:52:05 intended for very cheezy micros and built in roms Sep 06 04:52:14 tmzt, safe is the point. imho Sep 06 04:52:29 geist: scotty2 found on g2 that those modes were not enabled in the configuration Sep 06 04:52:32 unless someone drops qualcom bootloader unbrick Sep 06 04:52:35 or a usbboot Sep 06 04:53:01 and they were actually using the mmc protocol from the start, that could be wrong and we haven't bothered with that level of investigation on the tp Sep 06 04:53:10 suit yourself Sep 06 04:53:28 yea, im not fucking with that crap Sep 06 04:53:37 i got better things to do then brick things Sep 06 04:54:13 rhcp[linux]: dude I'm not doing anything to your tp, I"m just saying that that method is not interesting, it should work fine and you have the code to use it Sep 06 04:54:26 yea Sep 06 04:54:28 i understand. Sep 06 04:54:32 just not going to play with it Sep 06 04:54:38 safe only Sep 06 04:54:45 just trying to understand the early boot proceedure of the qsd/apk8x60 Sep 06 04:54:55 which has nothing to do with the ext2 /boot partition Sep 06 04:55:09 if i had funding like CM does. id brick 4 as well :) Sep 06 04:55:10 but i dont Sep 06 04:56:34 i wish you were not drunk so we could play with the UART stuff Sep 06 04:56:40 but oh well Sep 06 04:56:48 wont have my TP for a week or so Sep 06 04:56:50 after today Sep 06 04:57:41 I'm waiting for that code to be released so we can all work on it Sep 06 04:57:49 no point in one of us having it Sep 06 04:58:07 its never going to be released. unless i drop the project. Sep 06 04:58:14 wait, who's drunk? Sep 06 04:58:16 which could be coming soon Sep 06 04:58:17 :) Sep 06 04:58:21 tmzt suppoedly Sep 06 04:58:22 :P Sep 06 04:58:26 and no point in us all going back and reimplmenting it, the fact that it's just setting the speed with those first two ioctl's in interesting Sep 06 04:58:27 he types too well to be drunk Sep 06 04:58:29 if you ask me Sep 06 04:58:55 what's up guys Sep 06 05:00:03 is android running on pre/pre2? if they use a similar touchscreen interface it should be possible to share code with that Sep 06 05:00:07 same for native X, etc. Sep 06 05:00:25 not the same touch Sep 06 05:00:32 or else this would be done by alot of people Sep 06 05:00:32 :P Sep 06 05:00:36 i'm trying to start deving... has content.developer.palm.com moved to hp? Sep 06 05:00:37 same raw matrix Sep 06 05:04:18 geist: I miss omap usb boot. I don't think anyone here has figured out booting the msm based palm / hp devices from USB yet so if bootie gets killed you're pretty much hosed Sep 06 05:05:00 I guess I just miss the TI SoC's in general :-/ Sep 06 05:05:38 for pixie i put in a primary recovery mechanism Sep 06 05:05:43 destinal_, people in CM have so i hear Sep 06 05:05:47 and it comes from a good source Sep 06 05:05:53 basicalyl was an extremely stripped out version of bootie that lived on the modem flash, let you do a usb DFU recover Sep 06 05:06:05 so provided the modem flash didn't get wiped you could completely hose the mmc flash Sep 06 05:06:16 but i have no idea whats going on with these new sets of msm cpus Sep 06 05:06:18 geist: nice Sep 06 05:06:58 rhcp[linux]: cool, hopefully it gets released -- what is up with all these teams with secret toys anyway Sep 06 05:07:19 destinal_: from what I can tell, that would be Android :( Sep 06 05:07:37 destinal_, dono. most of them are your buddies Sep 06 05:07:37 ask Sep 06 05:07:38 :P Sep 06 05:07:42 no secrets Sep 06 05:08:00 if anybody owns the uinput proxy code floating around please properly host it somewhere Sep 06 05:08:07 and give the community permission to use it Sep 06 05:08:35 the thunderbolt src. was kept closed because they said they couldnt merge it as LTE would break the device tree 100% Sep 06 05:08:42 solition? move it to a diff git Sep 06 05:08:46 took about 2 months Sep 06 05:09:07 and i think it only happened due to pressure + some other group posted full src on git Sep 06 05:09:09 before Sep 06 05:09:09 lol Sep 06 05:09:18 geist: right, but every cpu has to boot from something so either there is so parallel flash, the emmc exposes a parallel boot block, or the apk has a rom loader similar to the omap3 Sep 06 05:09:31 we believe, without access to nda docs, that it is the third option Sep 06 05:09:39 geist: you mentioned hidd earlier -- we've asked for source code for that from palm and then HP but no dice as of yet .. we've reverse engineered it partially as well but not quite there yet. hidd always seemed to me like an unnecessary middleman between kernel and luna Sep 06 05:09:48 tmzt, I have the datasheet to the touchscreen chip Sep 06 05:09:51 that's NDA'ed Sep 06 05:09:58 :) Sep 06 05:10:02 rhcp[linux]: I don't want or need that Sep 06 05:10:13 we already know it's in a different mode than most app notes Sep 06 05:10:21 shrug Sep 06 05:10:24 its interesting to read Sep 06 05:10:43 geist: why not have luna read directly from kernel devices? Sep 06 05:10:58 rhcp[linux]: what's "the uinput proxy code"? (I know what uinput is) Sep 06 05:11:32 he means to send the raw data to the uinput Sep 06 05:11:44 the X / Y /Z raw data Sep 06 05:12:15 destinal_: were you one of the people doing http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Hidd ? Sep 06 05:12:25 booto: yup Sep 06 05:12:42 I have some more details about the priv struct if you're interested Sep 06 05:12:53 booto: absolutely would be Sep 06 05:13:09 i think tmzt and I have some stuff too Sep 06 05:13:09 :P Sep 06 05:13:12 ok, I'll fwd them on when I get home Sep 06 05:13:13 with all the damn reversing Sep 06 05:13:21 tmzt: older msm7ks couldn't boot from emmc, only raw nand Sep 06 05:13:23 I figured people would be reversing it further to get at the touchscreen but I hadn't heard the details Sep 06 05:13:29 so you had to plug in a raw nand and boot the modem cpu first Sep 06 05:13:37 it would chain load something that would then load from mmc Sep 06 05:17:59 rhcp[linux]: unless the thing you are talking about is publicly and legally accessible, please don't mention it in this channel Sep 06 05:18:20 you can email them to get the .pdf Sep 06 05:18:22 thats how i got it Sep 06 05:18:25 so i guess its legal Sep 06 05:18:30 i didnt sign anything Sep 06 05:18:41 rhcp[linux]: what thing are you talking about? Sep 06 05:18:46 the datasheet Sep 06 05:18:49 cypress sent me it Sep 06 05:19:06 the one that you yourself said was NDA'ed Sep 06 05:19:11 if you received it from cypress by asking why do you think it's nda? Sep 06 05:19:14 it may be for al i know Sep 06 05:19:17 i didnt sign anything though Sep 06 05:19:21 that would be the opposite Sep 06 05:19:28 i can post the email to you in private Sep 06 05:19:31 you can tell me Sep 06 05:19:33 i signed nothing though Sep 06 05:31:17 will save/restore back up launcher pages in 2.x too? Sep 06 05:31:51 PatrickC_TP, i am pretty sure launcher pages are backed up by default webos backup Sep 06 05:32:02 even in the touchpad Sep 06 05:32:02 Jack87: I thought so too Sep 06 05:32:07 and they used to be Sep 06 05:32:24 but I just restored my pre- and doctored back to 2.1, and my launcher pages are gone Sep 06 05:33:02 PatrickC_TP: They changed back end stuff to disallow backups for 'unknown' devices. Sep 06 05:33:12 And a Pre- with 2.1 would be an 'unknown' device Sep 06 05:33:30 Did it restore anything other than apps> Sep 06 05:33:37 SineOt: yeah, my text list is empty.. Sep 06 05:33:39 not that I can see Sep 06 05:33:45 well, it restored accounts Sep 06 05:34:40 is there a way around that? Sep 06 05:34:50 Memos? Calendar? It might just be that you got to experience those changes first hand Sep 06 05:34:53 I'm going to try and use Impostah to get around it, but not sure if it'll work Sep 06 05:35:15 Doubtful. It's something on the backend to do with the backup stuff. I don't think Impostah would help any Sep 06 05:35:25 memos are there Sep 06 05:35:30 and I don't use the calendar Sep 06 05:35:48 Huh. Then yeah, no idea. Sep 06 05:36:25 yeah.. my phone is always weird lol Sep 06 05:36:31 I'm hoping that it didn't corrupt the data Sep 06 05:36:36 I'm moving to a pre2 soon Sep 06 05:36:40 * PatrickC_TP crosses fingers Sep 06 05:53:51 hmmmm -> geist> tmzt: well, since bootie is a derivative of lk, then there's some universe whwere it runs, alas it's locked up at hp :) Sep 06 06:06:23 geist: wish you said some of this ~2 years ago :/ Sep 06 06:08:06 hah, i think i did Sep 06 06:08:47 well, never knew lk was your baby or that bootie came from it Sep 06 06:09:31 oh sure Sep 06 06:10:46 geist: you did :) Sep 06 06:11:50 saying bootie was based on his own kernel is not the same as saying the lk on codeaurora's git repo is his work Sep 06 06:12:30 yeahm, it's apparently quite strange for the hp folk, they were getting drops of essentially a bizarro bootie from QCT to boot the cpus they're working on Sep 06 06:13:32 geist: I saw the list of commands the pre3 spits out of bootie, was pretty amazed http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Bootie#Pre3 Sep 06 06:13:51 but it is isn't it? the lk in caf is forked from newos? Sep 06 06:14:04 yeah, that looks like pre3 has the full debug version Sep 06 06:14:16 generally there's a retail version taht is greatly stripped out that ships Sep 06 06:14:18 geist: yeah that's what I figured, you had mentioned it a while back Sep 06 06:14:33 and they were using the pre3 for factory testing i think too Sep 06 06:14:41 they basicalyl have scripts that novaterm in and do hw testing Sep 06 06:15:10 oh wow Sep 06 06:15:22 they were talking about moving to that model when i was leaving Sep 06 06:15:35 and i know the low level sw guys were pretty pro bootie, so they went with it Sep 06 06:16:20 pre3 is 7x30? Sep 06 06:16:24 geist: hey the presence of saveenv does allow some really interesting things (although one would wish to tread lightly) Sep 06 06:16:45 nothing to talk with amss though, I'm suprised Sep 06 06:17:11 yeah, not too bad though Sep 06 06:17:19 you know the T variables vs the non T vars right? Sep 06 06:17:35 the T vars are temporary, only for that one boot, until you save them, then it overrides the var the next time around Sep 06 06:17:40 geist: yeah Sep 06 06:17:53 hi Sep 06 06:18:00 basicalyl the T vars are set in memory and then loaded from the env partition Sep 06 06:18:12 hotspot? Sep 06 06:18:18 Hi All Sep 06 06:18:26 * PuffTheMagic_ wonders what would been if if geist had gotten bootie opensourced way back when Sep 06 06:18:31 geist: I wished for saveenv to write those back to the "nvram" section for a long time, we've even written a tool to edit nvram since we didn't have that :) Sep 06 06:18:33 is anyone help me unlock code for HP Veer Sep 06 06:18:52 yeah, i had actually removed it mostly to keep the factory guys from abusing it Sep 06 06:19:01 but of course the nvram section is quite easy to deal with Sep 06 06:19:09 yeah Sep 06 06:19:20 as is the bootie env section Sep 06 06:19:32 which i had actually planned on removinmg, but it became too convenient Sep 06 06:19:49 but i wanted them to be seperate, so in theory you never touch nvram and the bootie env is a bit less permanent Sep 06 06:21:06 geist: yeah, kind of sad to see the palm / hp hardware stuff go away, I hope some of this gets open sourced Sep 06 06:21:19 would hate to see bootie just vanish off the face of the planet Sep 06 06:21:22 yeah, there was always a push to open source bootie Sep 06 06:21:36 even if it does get opensourced, idk how that helps it get on new hardware Sep 06 06:21:44 officially Sep 06 06:22:23 PuffTheMagic_: well who knows, some vendors may adopt it, but at least it means we could port it to new hardware or learn from it Sep 06 06:22:58 how big is the bootie codebase compared to lk itself? Sep 06 06:23:03 it's an app? Sep 06 06:23:11 destinal_: its one thing if I can get webos on a new phone usable for me, but getting on my parents phones is another thing Sep 06 06:23:14 and the masses... Sep 06 06:23:16 well, lk has most of the interesting bits. the kenrel is virtually the same Sep 06 06:23:41 most of the bootie stuff is peripheral bits. mmc stack, file system drivers, novacom, env, nvram, etc Sep 06 06:23:59 and of course whatever low level boot code is needed for that particular target Sep 06 06:25:32 the low level boot is built as part of lk though? Sep 06 06:25:49 well, lk doesn't have all the boot code that was tuned for a particular device Sep 06 06:25:54 sdram setup, etc Sep 06 06:25:59 it's all target specific bits Sep 06 06:25:59 bootie is more like a command shell and some utilities (not as binaries but similair concept) Sep 06 06:26:15 right, in target, platform etc. Sep 06 06:26:20 at least in the caf version Sep 06 06:26:23 right, more or less the same command processor in lk Sep 06 06:26:40 it basicalyl starts a thread and calls the function Sep 06 06:27:24 that makes sense, do you think lk can chain into lk ? Sep 06 06:27:32 such as bootie into an lk aboot build Sep 06 06:27:46 oh that's also ubnique to bootie, the code to deal with uimages and whatnot Sep 06 06:28:01 not particularly complicated, it's just a bunch of crap to parse and make linux happy Sep 06 06:28:15 yay atags Sep 06 06:28:38 is it sharing code with lboot? Sep 06 06:28:45 what's lboot? Sep 06 06:28:46 * PuffTheMagic_ things gesit should just chinese wall the bootie code to us and call it a day Sep 06 06:28:54 heh Sep 06 06:29:03 i dont work there anymore, and thus have no access to any of that code Sep 06 06:29:13 lboot - boot linux image Sep 06 06:29:22 have to assume that means raw zImage Sep 06 06:29:34 lboot in what context? was that a bootie command? Sep 06 06:29:38 yeah Sep 06 06:29:39 geist: older code is good too Sep 06 06:29:52 PuffTheMagic_: come on, dont even ask me for that Sep 06 06:30:07 geist: so it's possible to teach lk's command process the bootie commands? Sep 06 06:30:14 basically reimplment it Sep 06 06:30:19 well, sure. why not? Sep 06 06:30:36 no of course Sep 06 06:30:44 kind of a stupid question on my part Sep 06 06:30:55 they're basically a somewhat closely related cousin Sep 06 06:31:06 bootie just has a buncho f specific commands specific to booting stuff on hpalm hardware Sep 06 06:31:13 otherwise it's more or less the same thing Sep 06 06:31:30 yeah, and uimage which is actually quite useful Sep 06 06:31:50 it was a bit of a pain to figure out the exact format to boot a combo image but it worked Sep 06 06:33:04 yeah, i remember thinking of building a new format and then just deciding that uimage was good enough Sep 06 06:33:05 tmzt: didn't older webos hardware not have initrd and just run /sbin/init off off the rootfs or something? Sep 06 06:33:11 no reason reinventing that Sep 06 06:33:19 yep Sep 06 06:33:20 geist: im not really serious, Palm/HP hardware has been dead to me as a sprint user for 1.5 years, bootie code cant help that Sep 06 06:33:25 geist: too bad android didn't feel the same way Sep 06 06:33:37 I'm guessing that was more HTC's doing but I don't know Sep 06 06:33:43 yep, they definitely love to reinvent wheels Sep 06 06:33:54 i tried to start sb2 with -M /srv/preware/cross-compile/staging/mapping-armv7, but it keeps telling me that i need to specify a target.. i tried -t armv7 etc. without success. any ideas? Sep 06 06:34:33 PuffTheMagic_: yeah, the whole sprint thing sucked -- I really like the concept of GSM, shame the difference between providers isn't just whose SIM you insert Sep 06 06:34:44 re sprint and verizon etc Sep 06 06:34:57 can't change the radio card? Sep 06 06:35:02 yah, that's why i'm AT&T 100%. have had the same sim in a bunch of different phones Sep 06 06:35:09 and my android buddies keep hooking me up with new hardware Sep 06 06:35:21 tmzt: well that was the neat thing about pre (both castle and roadrunner) Sep 06 06:35:28 swapping comm boards Sep 06 06:35:52 alas that's gone with the qualcomm switch Sep 06 06:36:04 so pre3 is 7x30? Sep 06 06:36:19 would have to do some dirty stuff to make it work on sprint Sep 06 06:36:24 must be, or the bootie wouldn't be that large Sep 06 06:36:39 MSM8x55 I think? Sep 06 06:36:39 bootie was always held back on omap3 designs by having to fit in 64k of ram Sep 06 06:37:15 geist: it's in flash on omap3 or limited to the boot block or why Sep 06 06:37:30 loaded into 64KB of sram before initializing dram Sep 06 06:37:49 ah Sep 06 06:37:54 could always do 2-stage but yeah that's why the TI bootie was compressed when pixi's wasn't Sep 06 06:38:01 forgot about that Sep 06 06:38:04 right Sep 06 06:38:19 really wanted to avoid it, it made it extremely easy to have exactly one bootie image for pre Sep 06 06:38:34 you could load it over the TI usb loader and it'd work, jam it onto flash, chain load it from another bootie, etc Sep 06 06:38:43 it didn't assume anything about the setup of the hardware already Sep 06 06:38:43 so lk can be built for different machines in the same image? Sep 06 06:38:49 yep. once code tree Sep 06 06:39:22 but built specifically for one family of hardware Sep 06 06:39:30 I"m really going to have to find my own tp, only open apk device out there Sep 06 06:39:42 pretty much the same way lk works. PROJECT=beagleboard-test make Sep 06 06:39:43 apq Sep 06 06:40:09 yeah I built it for surf8x60 yesterday, extremly easy Sep 06 06:40:35 not having one though makes it hard to actaully do anything with but that's another matter Sep 06 06:44:56 7:40am... time for a beer... stupid night shifts :( Sep 06 06:45:20 nearly knock off time, which will be time for beer Sep 06 06:46:23 * destinal_ has a beagleboard on the shelf, should try lk on it. Sep 06 06:47:41 No more work until Saturday.... yippee! Sep 06 06:47:54 destinal_: and webos? Sep 06 06:47:59 yep, it should work. just jam it on a mmc card and load it via uboot Sep 06 06:48:13 tmzt: heh actually that might be fun Sep 06 06:48:57 never ran webos on anything you could connect a monitor to :) Sep 06 06:49:14 (well save x86 / emu build anyway) Sep 06 06:51:30 geist: so would you consider experimenting with lk to be a good way to get started with low level ARM programming? Sep 06 06:51:42 not a bad way Sep 06 06:51:52 at leasty ou have a working system to add code too and play around with Sep 06 06:52:26 you just need a arm-elf toolchain. you can build one or grab one of the ones off codesourcery's site Sep 06 06:52:27 had considered porting it to msm7x0x, then considered otherwise :) Sep 06 06:52:45 yeah, really i wouldn't bother fooling with any of the msm chips unless you have a reason to Sep 06 06:52:55 beagle or pandaboards are so nice to fool with Sep 06 06:53:09 well I did, was porting linux on the touch pro/touch pro 2 Sep 06 06:53:14 but not anymore Sep 06 06:53:17 ya, I really don't want to give Qualcomm my Firstborne. Sep 06 06:54:18 sadly they have a really nice ARM core Sep 06 06:54:25 they have a real first rate cpu design group Sep 06 06:55:11 and this insane other os you have to talk to do anything Sep 06 06:55:16 and keep everything secret Sep 06 06:55:21 hmm? Sep 06 06:55:25 and yes, I know it's gotten better Sep 06 06:55:36 with the apps core doing more low level stuff Sep 06 06:55:41 geist: amss Sep 06 06:55:54 ah yeah. they've gotten better about offloading that Sep 06 06:55:54 and qdsp/adsp, but TI has one of those too Sep 06 06:56:19 I'm not even sure how much of an amss is in the apq's since they have no modem Sep 06 06:56:31 i'm sure it's still there, probably just powered down Sep 06 06:56:33 no smd or anything I could find but I didn't look much Sep 06 06:57:45 B_DO_NOT_CARE Sep 06 06:59:30 yeah actually, much easier to power it off than redesign the SoC Sep 06 06:59:36 I keep forgetting Sep 06 07:14:41 so then you have to stub out the code since Palm uses the modem code to manage charging with the older units. Sep 06 07:19:26 how do i "install" the packages in the PDK? Sep 06 07:32:15 good morning! Sep 06 07:32:44 ka6sox: I think they're using A6 for this now Sep 06 07:32:50 though I could be wrong Sep 06 07:33:19 does one of you have a pre3? Sep 06 07:33:35 ice8lue: hmm, rwhitby? Sep 06 07:33:54 ice8lue: not a lot of pre3's around Sep 06 07:34:02 destinal_: probably sbw Sep 06 07:34:19 not even you guys? oh... Sep 06 07:34:47 hm i'm a little surprised although it has 8GB of internal memory, i just can access ~5GB Sep 06 07:35:15 ice8lue: that much taken up by the OS and log directories and so on? Sep 06 07:35:38 but 3GB? i think i had 15 of 16GB on my Pre2 Sep 06 07:36:11 i thought the OS stuff was located somewhere else Sep 06 07:36:16 ice8lue: have you checked out the partitions / lvm volumes on your pre3 yet? Sep 06 07:36:24 figured out what's where? Sep 06 07:36:26 no. how to do that? Sep 06 07:38:54 ice8lue: so, for partitions, you can use fdisk -l from a shell on the device (though you'd have to install optware and ipkg-opt install whatever package has it) Sep 06 07:39:06 the LVM tools should already be on there to list lvm volumes Sep 06 07:39:47 ;) ok, gimme a second Sep 06 07:39:51 http://www.howtoforge.com/linux_lvm .. hmmm pvdisplay? Sep 06 07:40:06 pvdisplay, vgdisplay, vgdisplay Sep 06 07:40:13 lvdisplay Sep 06 07:40:36 yup. Sep 06 07:40:38 good stuff. Sep 06 07:41:05 they seem to programme the A6 via JTAG upon boot. Sep 06 07:41:18 ice8lue: all the MSM stuff, /var, filecache, db8, etc take up the other 3G Sep 06 07:41:44 ice8lue: and fdisk is in util-linux, you can ipkg-opt update && ipkg-opt install util-linux Sep 06 07:41:49 rwhitby: hmz... not that nice. but it's a great device though Sep 06 07:41:50 ka6sox: wheer do you see that? Sep 06 07:41:55 ice8lue: but rwhitby has the answer for you there :) Sep 06 07:42:09 ice8lue: I'm still hoping my order for a 16GB Pre 3 will magically appear Sep 06 07:42:43 rwhitby: i dont really believe they even exist Sep 06 07:43:02 but giving them out to developers would be great Sep 06 07:43:20 ice8lue: two different suppliers (who may have the same upstream) are telling me next week Sep 06 07:43:39 but I only 40% believe them Sep 06 07:43:39 what do the msm partitiosn look like? Sep 06 07:43:51 are they a huge pile of little ones or just one big 'msm stuff is here' Sep 06 07:43:52 geist: full 10 or 11 msm partition Sep 06 07:44:05 ... using MBR? Sep 06 07:44:54 mbr, fat, cfg_data, osbl, efs2, fota, modem_st1, modem_st2, adsp, modem_golden, modem_pad Sep 06 07:44:58 well... good luck ;) do you think it will ever get updates? Sep 06 07:45:07 sweet Sep 06 07:45:20 that's pre 3 Sep 06 07:45:38 program the a6? Sep 06 07:45:53 for touchpad it's fat, cfg_dat, spbl, appssbl, qcsbl, efs2, fota, apps, oemsbl, modem_st1, modem_st2 Sep 06 07:46:25 there does seem to be a lot of wasted space in there Sep 06 07:48:35 maybe we could build a cleaner? Sep 06 07:49:31 good luck compacting it. there be dragons. Sep 06 07:49:40 * rwhitby bbl Sep 06 07:49:56 yep, don't do that Sep 06 07:50:06 those things are not part of webos, they are part of amss Sep 06 07:50:21 what's amss? Sep 06 07:50:38 advanced mobile subscriber system, the qualcomm firmware basically Sep 06 07:51:10 ah Sep 06 07:57:44 hmm, looks like libpanel isnt included with ncurses Sep 06 08:13:03 I see cifs,nfs support now, cheers. Is there an interface for it or do I mount -o nfs... via xterm or dropbear? Sep 06 08:15:53 no interface Sep 06 08:16:53 thanks Sep 06 08:17:10 np Sep 06 08:18:21 * loswillios installs dropbear Sep 06 08:18:38 as I understand xterm is still in the testing feed Sep 06 08:19:19 Yeah Sep 06 08:44:41 i wonder why they even released an 8gig pre3 just seems so backwords considering pre2s are all 16 Sep 06 08:44:58 HP made some really bad calls didnt they? Sep 06 08:45:36 geist, did hp have anything to do with you leaving or did you just have other opportunities? Sep 06 08:45:56 you dont have to answer that if you dont want.. Sep 06 08:49:33 yep Sep 06 08:49:42 my last day of palm was the first day ofHP Sep 06 08:49:48 so i guess i technically worked there a day Sep 06 08:50:13 i had zero interest in working at a company that big. i thought they'd mess it all up and eventually outsource/kill webos Sep 06 08:50:41 and they did! Sep 06 08:50:45 i quit and screwed around for a few months and then started looking around Sep 06 08:50:54 having 2 months of nothing to do was pretty great Sep 06 08:53:35 * ka6sox wonders what 2months of bumming around would look like.... Sep 06 08:54:00 nite all... Sep 06 08:54:18 nite Sep 06 09:00:08 geist: would have left too Sep 06 09:00:26 i think they not just messed it up, they also destroyed the spirit of palm Sep 06 09:00:40 it felt like you guys put a lot of love into webOS Sep 06 09:00:47 for HP it was a product Sep 06 09:02:59 is it possible to just re-format /media/internal to be ext3 and change fstab accordingly? Sep 06 09:04:33 or will it break other things somewhere? Sep 06 09:04:51 Maqs, people will die...flames will erupt Sep 06 09:04:54 don't do it. Sep 06 09:05:06 go to sleep! Sep 06 09:05:30 just killing pages so my fan would slow down... Sep 06 09:05:35 nite Sep 06 09:06:04 i rather thought of some scripts having hardcoded vfat or sth Sep 06 09:06:07 nite Sep 06 09:06:28 Maqs, the OTA or next doctor will have a fit. Sep 06 09:10:25 early on i used to do that all the time until the scripts and whatnot started getting upset Sep 06 09:21:04 k, thanks Sep 06 09:32:30 sconix: running now MS 2.4.2, but it looks like nothing was stored in the Palm Profile... after running it now for ~14h the modelist is still empty (Pre3) Sep 06 09:33:02 sconix: it doesn't matter that much for now as I only had 2 basic modes set up so far, but I thought I'd let you know... possibly a bug? Sep 06 09:33:51 well actually not sure if the installing wipes the config Sep 06 09:34:01 but anyway the mode export / import can be used to backup Sep 06 09:39:29 sconix: yes, will use export/import next time... would be nice if it would be also possible to export to a local document without using GoogleDocs Sep 06 10:17:29 hi guys..i'm trying to add the kernel testing feed Sep 06 10:17:36 i have a quextion though Sep 06 10:17:50 tut tells me to add http://preware.is.awesome.com/ Sep 06 10:18:00 so including a slash ? Sep 06 10:18:22 while earlier the tut is speaking of not including a slash at the url end Sep 06 10:18:38 Type or paste a name and corresponding URL from above in the appropriate text boxes. Make sure the URL does *not* have a slash at the end. Sep 06 10:18:49 Put http://preware.is.awesome.com/ in the URL field. Note that this is not a real URL - it is a placeholder only. Sep 06 10:18:59 is it different in the kernel feed? Sep 06 10:19:28 could someone confirm i should include a / indeed in this case? Sep 06 10:23:08 what tut are you following? Sep 06 10:23:19 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Testing_Feeds Sep 06 10:23:46 ok, and what URL does it have in there Sep 06 10:24:17 sorry? Sep 06 10:24:27 what does that tut have for the URL... exactly... Sep 06 10:24:48 http://preware.is.awesome.com/ Sep 06 10:24:55 including / Sep 06 10:24:55 with a slash correct Sep 06 10:25:01 there is your answer Sep 06 10:25:20 just do it exactly like it is written Sep 06 10:25:35 ok..i just wanted to be sure sir since this is different from the other feeds Sep 06 10:25:44 ok thanks for cofirming Sep 06 10:26:11 you are right, it is different, because this is a different feed with special configuration Sep 06 10:26:39 yup i get it :-) Sep 06 10:27:04 i didnt expect the page to have an error but better safe than sorry ;-) Sep 06 10:58:41 i installed xecutah xserver and xterm..however i dont get a xterm terminal when i run those 3 in that particular order..i do get the xserver background and mouse pointer but no terminal..any idea whats going wrong? Sep 06 11:20:58 no one? Sep 06 12:33:35 is it possible to get silverlight/moonlight running on the TP? Sep 06 12:43:15 not sure there's an ARM port for that stuff Sep 06 13:15:08 YeahRight: you look at the xterm or xserver logs? I believe they are in /tmp/ Sep 06 13:16:34 Im currently working on a usable Shell App Sep 06 13:16:36 not yet..let me check Sep 06 13:16:40 thanks for replying Sep 06 13:17:39 anyone tried something like this ` Sep 06 13:17:40 ? Sep 06 13:17:58 YeahRight: BTW, did you read the sentence in step 1 which says " If you make any error in this feed name, the URL below will not be replaced by the real URL when the device is rebooted, and you will not get access to the feeds. MAKE SURE YOU GET THE FEED NAME CORRECT!" Sep 06 13:18:14 and the sentence in step 2 which says "Note that this is not a real URL - it is a placeholder only. Again, you need to get the feed name correct for the real URL to be replaced correctly when the device is rebooted." Sep 06 13:18:26 yes i read that Sep 06 13:18:47 elpollodiablo1 : ./media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.xterm/bin/xterm Xt error: Can't open display: %s Sep 06 13:18:47 if you read both those sentences, why would you ask a question about the URL, knowing that the sentences you just read have told you that the URL is irrelevant Sep 06 13:19:16 call me overly carefull Sep 06 13:19:29 YeahRight: I'm interested in how steps 1 and 2 can be made clearer, so that people don't need to ask. Sep 06 13:19:37 YeahRight: how would you rewrite it? Sep 06 13:19:56 step 6 even says "If you got the feed name correct, the placeholder URL will be replaced by the real feed URL automatically." Sep 06 13:20:17 why not just remove the / in the placeholder url? Sep 06 13:20:24 that way at least there is no difference Sep 06 13:20:43 i do apologize for asking something that apperantly should be completley obvious to me Sep 06 13:20:59 YeahRight: done. what else? Sep 06 13:21:36 I'm serious. How can it be made to not only apparently be obvious, but actually *be* obvious. Sep 06 13:21:39 well since there is no difference now..at least I wouldnt have asked..i think you can do without an extra Note or something Sep 06 13:21:57 yes i understand you are serious Sep 06 13:22:13 because when we had the actual URL in there, people typed it wrongly. so we made the URL irrelevant, and people then type the feed name incorrectly. Sep 06 13:22:15 100% foolproof and clear documentation is of the essence Sep 06 13:23:58 well imho if you add a Note like (Note: the actual URL that you type does not matter since it is placeholder URL) it's even clearer..also for the ones which want confirmation to be ubersure Sep 06 13:24:19 basically you would explain the meaning of placeholder url to non native english ppl i guess ;-) Sep 06 13:25:13 YeahRight: done. what else? Sep 06 13:26:05 no other recommandations..thank you for taking this so seriously Sep 06 13:26:34 hopefully the 5 minutes spent on it will pay itself back with fewer questions in the future as a result Sep 06 13:27:03 i bet it might help at least a bit, like i said it would have kept ME form asking at least :-) Sep 06 13:28:30 btw i do not see the changes yet but i guess the page still has to be updated then Sep 06 13:31:11 i still might have another recommandation to avoid possible questions.."Immediately reboot the device by simultaneously pressing the Opt, Sym and R keys." To me that wasn't clear either, i used a preware patch to get the "reboot device" option Sep 06 13:31:56 well, most people won't have that patch installed, so that is useless as a direction Sep 06 13:32:21 what would you suggest as a direction that will work on all unmodified webOS phones and tablets? Sep 06 13:32:22 yeah sure but i meant it like: maybe its good to have some additional explaining about those keys Sep 06 13:33:17 well, touchpads don't have those keys anyway, so that step is also useless for a touchpad Sep 06 13:33:22 the keys will do but if you are new to all this you need more information about them Sep 06 13:33:26 ah, lol Sep 06 13:33:33 i didnt even realize that Sep 06 13:33:40 and if I just say reboot, a lot of people think that is just hitting the power button to turn off the screen and on again. Sep 06 13:33:50 well then obviously you should add a way for device reboot for TP's ;-) Sep 06 13:33:58 and then they ask why preware.is.awesome.com has not changed Sep 06 13:34:09 i guess there is a native way to reboot the TP? Sep 06 13:36:43 besides maybe it's not that weird to expect ppl to have that patch installed if they want to use test kernels.. Sep 06 13:37:08 at least 95% of people will not Sep 06 13:37:41 dont really understand that but if you say so... Sep 06 13:38:52 nothing to understand, it's a fact. Sep 06 13:39:10 ok sir Sep 06 13:39:59 well they'll need some way to reboot anyway.. Sep 06 13:44:12 seems you can restart the device through device info -> reset options Sep 06 14:31:59 hi all any one here know much about Impostah? Sep 06 14:39:53 anyone know what version of java is isntalled when you apt-get install eclipse in ubuntu chroot on the touchpad? Sep 06 14:40:20 im trying to get my ecu editing/logging software working in chroot but it takes about 10 minutes to open the hex files and when it opens them, it doesnt show the table Sep 06 14:40:35 i have a friend trying to help troubleshoot and hes wanting to know what version of java im using Sep 06 14:40:48 i couldnt just install sun-java6-jre Sep 06 14:40:56 because i dont think it has arm support Sep 06 14:41:06 so i installed eclipse and it installed java automatically Sep 06 14:42:00 i installed xecutah xserver and xterm..however i dont get a xterm terminal when i run those 3 in that particular order..i do get the xserver background and mouse pointer but no terminal..someone have any idea whats going wrong? see http://pastebin.com/5dqgKYmt for xserver.log and xterm.log Sep 06 14:42:47 yearight did you launch xterm from inside executah? Sep 06 14:43:18 yes Sep 06 14:43:54 ok Sep 06 14:44:08 try uninstalling xterm Sep 06 14:44:09 reboot Sep 06 14:44:12 reinstall it Sep 06 14:44:19 then give it a go Sep 06 14:44:25 ive had issues with updating xterm and xserver Sep 06 14:44:32 where i have to go through that process Sep 06 14:50:26 i wish xterm had a good virtual keyboard Sep 06 14:50:31 or touchpad did rather Sep 06 14:50:53 yea i usually use the bluetooth keyboard Sep 06 14:51:07 and use the tweaks app to turn the virtual kb off Sep 06 14:51:12 carrying around a bluetooth keyboard kinda destroys the purpose though Sep 06 14:51:22 i guess Sep 06 14:51:24 i am hoping splashtop has a virtual keyboard Sep 06 14:51:28 If you have the HP Touchpad keyboard, it's not much to carry. Sep 06 14:51:31 with ctrl/alt/etc Sep 06 14:51:39 but its something to carry Sep 06 14:51:41 which sucks Sep 06 14:51:48 surprised at how sturdy it feels to type on despite how thin it is Sep 06 14:52:01 and really Sep 06 14:52:05 i bought the touchpad for 100$ Sep 06 14:52:12 the point is for me to be a cheap bastard Sep 06 14:52:17 Most people did. Sep 06 14:52:18 Heh Sep 06 14:52:23 so im not too excited with the notion of buying a keyboard to go with it Sep 06 14:52:40 Fair enough. Though I did see some mini bluetooth keyboards in the range of $10 Sep 06 14:52:48 ya Sep 06 14:53:04 That may be worth getting just to save yourself a little bit of headache Sep 06 14:53:17 well Sep 06 14:53:25 if there was a good virtual keyboard and terminal program Sep 06 14:53:29 so nobody knows what version of java is installed with eclipse in chroot? Sep 06 14:53:29 i'd lose a lot of my headache Sep 06 14:55:44 Wow... One for $1.44, almost worth the gamble despite the bad reviews. http://www.amazon.com/DURAGADGET-Bluetooth-Keyboard-Blackberry-Playbook/dp/B004FV95TW Sep 06 14:57:00 +6 shipping Sep 06 14:57:17 Eh. Yeah. Small catch there. But still less than $10 Sep 06 14:57:22 Anyone know of a working remote desktop client for TP? Sep 06 14:57:32 either VNC , or standalone ie: Logmein style Sep 06 14:58:14 bikr: theyre making splashtop Sep 06 14:58:17 for webos Sep 06 14:58:35 i thought splashtop was 2nd display Sep 06 14:58:39 going to look more into it Sep 06 14:59:33 awesome! Sep 06 14:59:37 3 of the merchants that sell that are duragadget Sep 06 14:59:48 2 fulfilled by amazon, and all 3 have different prices Sep 06 15:00:36 anyone familiar with modifying wpa supplicant? Sep 06 15:00:49 hah. someone probably screwed up the listing and missed a decimal point. Sep 06 15:00:49 trying to get my touchpad on my work wifis, wpa2 with peap and mschapv2 Sep 06 15:00:52 no server auth Sep 06 15:01:11 DQn3tsWRK: you're still at that? Sep 06 15:01:22 bikr havent had a chance to get started on it Sep 06 15:01:24 long weekend Sep 06 15:01:28 roger that Sep 06 15:01:28 and busy week last week Sep 06 15:01:37 dwc-: Same keyboard, different seller: $10 +$5 shipping. http://www.amazon.com/Mini-Wireless-Bluetooth-Keyboard-Iphone/dp/B0042HGAS8 Sep 06 15:04:02 if you want cheap bluetooth keyboards, try your local Goodwill Sep 06 15:04:06 got mine for $4 Sep 06 15:04:40 i'd rather have a good soft keyboard Sep 06 15:04:42 with ctrl and alt Sep 06 15:04:58 there is a vnc client for webos, but i dont think it's fully functional on the touchpad Sep 06 15:06:20 or maybe i missed the conversation where this was already mentioned Sep 06 15:07:10 it was not mentioned Sep 06 15:07:13 :) Sep 06 15:07:23 i wish effing logmein worked ugh.. Sep 06 15:07:34 realvnc <3 Sep 06 15:37:38 please do plwweasel Sep 06 15:47:18 ill shoot you a few $ via paypal if you can get me on the work wifis Sep 06 15:47:35 i really would like to have my touchpad working at work because im on and off vpns all day Sep 06 15:47:37 stuck on a call with my boss, but soon as it is finished will do Sep 06 15:47:44 and the vpns wont let me get email or update tickets and shit Sep 06 15:48:40 I'll do what I can, no need for $'s Sep 06 15:50:47 ok just shoot me a pm Sep 06 15:51:15 K Sep 06 15:51:40 anyone know the best arm compat. java jre? Sep 06 15:52:06 looks like when i installed eclipse it installed openjdk-6-jre Sep 06 15:52:15 but my ecu editing/logging software doesnt work so well with it Sep 06 15:52:50 still creating a obdII program? Sep 06 15:53:02 obd2 on touchpad? Sep 06 15:53:04 oho Sep 06 15:53:32 Id use it even though my laptop uses it already Sep 06 15:54:19 Abyssul: not creating Sep 06 15:54:24 trying to get one working in ubuntu chroot Sep 06 15:54:40 Flemmard: yea apparently usb host works out of the box Sep 06 15:54:52 so im gonna order an otg cable and give it a whirl Sep 06 15:55:11 The power has to come externally doesnt it? Sep 06 15:55:12 http://www.amazon.com/Motorola-Connection-MOTOROLA-Packaging-89454N/dp/B004UAG6WC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1315324204&sr=8-1 Sep 06 15:55:14 yup Sep 06 15:55:21 im gonna try a usb Y cable Sep 06 15:55:30 So complicated o.O Sep 06 15:55:30 and send one end to a cig lighter usb charger Sep 06 16:26:03 Hi Sep 06 16:26:14 yo Sep 06 17:10:43 hello :).. what tethering application do you use (preferably for HP Veer or WebOS 2.1)? Is there any? I can't really use FreeTethering, because it doesn't properly downscale.. and Mobile Hotspot doesn't want to work with a secured connection anymore :( any ideas? Sep 06 17:17:51 what device? Sep 06 17:18:24 oh you are tethering from webos to webos Sep 06 17:18:38 not sure, im an android nerd, dont know much about tethering from a webos mobile device Sep 06 17:18:55 but a lot of the problem is the fact that webos doesnt support ad hoc connections Sep 06 17:18:59 only infrastructure mode Sep 06 17:20:57 nah .. I am on a hp veer and wanted to initiate a wlan hotspot or a usb- or bluetooth-connection so that I could connect with my laptop.. Sep 06 17:21:42 it does work with Mobile Hotspot - but only if I keep the connection "insecure" (without WPA/WPA2) - which is not really an option for me .. it worked with the given security until today .. then suddenly it wouldn't work anymore Sep 06 17:43:36 hey folks Sep 06 18:03:53 anyone have any ideas on how to get flash to see the camera/Mic on the touchpaf? Sep 06 18:10:15 yo Sep 06 18:12:53 M25_, nope. Sep 06 18:14:56 M25, what are you wanting to get working with the cam/mic? Sep 06 18:18:39 !status Sep 06 18:18:59 !pingme Sep 06 18:21:11 videochat mainly, also voice search/dictation Sep 06 18:21:19 wrea: ^ Sep 06 18:21:59 aka chatroulette? Sep 06 18:22:04 heh Sep 06 18:22:15 I wish google's voice/video plugin for linux was built for arm too Sep 06 18:22:47 that would be wonderful too, but there are 3rd party flash implementations that tie in too Sep 06 18:23:32 So, ncurses isnt built with libpanel which kismet needs Sep 06 18:24:06 If I run the makefile for libpatch it doesnt create a .so, only 2 .a's Sep 06 18:25:12 honestly, I'd settle for voice search/dictation, would be awesome to skip the on screen keyboard Sep 06 18:32:39 oh guys - quick question.. I'm sure you know the answer.. the recent WebOS SDK is 3.0.2 .. would I be able to develop applications for the HP Veer using that? and what else except VirtualBox do I need? is there some thread to get started? Sep 06 18:32:52 Thank you for answering in advance! Sep 06 18:34:15 302 isn't on the veer Sep 06 18:34:22 you need the 2.x sdk for phones Sep 06 18:34:48 is there a TouchPad app that just gives me a local linux prompt? Sep 06 18:34:51 i dont believe the 302 sdk comes with a 2.x phone-sized vm Sep 06 18:35:01 or any of the mojo docs Sep 06 18:35:08 MrBIOS, xterm in the testing repo Sep 06 18:35:10 (mojo being hte phone js framework) Sep 06 18:35:27 wrea, but that requires X to be running, yes? Sep 06 18:35:32 I have the testing repo enabled Sep 06 18:35:34 and I have the term Sep 06 18:35:50 Yes, it does Sep 06 18:36:21 that is sub-optimal :) Sep 06 18:36:32 Well, thats all you got. Sep 06 18:36:41 make a better one! :) Sep 06 18:36:45 ah okay .. well I thought that 3.0.2 in the SDK version number referred to its version and not to the version of the OS Sep 06 18:36:57 fair enough, but also, the xterm doesn't size correctly so it's difficult to actually use it once you fill up the upper half of the window with text, since the keyboard overlaps half of the window Sep 06 18:37:13 ssh? Sep 06 18:37:31 thank you for the quick answer tho! Sep 06 18:37:44 Aoi-re: i mean, i could be wrong, but i think the 3.x sdks are only touchpad/enyo Sep 06 18:38:01 haydnh, unfortunately the office net here is not routable to the wi-fi subnet, so that's a non-starter for me Sep 06 18:38:02 with the tools you could code/install and app to any device Sep 06 18:38:16 but it doesn't have any of the mojo docs or phone-sized vms Sep 06 18:39:09 MrBIOS: what doesn't size correctly? and you should absolutely not have your keyboard over the screen :) Sep 06 18:39:19 well I definitely want to write something for my veer :) Sep 06 18:39:24 or at least die trying to do so :D Sep 06 18:39:32 MrBIOS: set the keyboard size for X to use in tweaks, else just change the keyboard size to 'xs' to prevent it from hiding Sep 06 18:39:45 dtzWill, the on-screen keyboard is superimposed over the lower half of the xterm window Sep 06 18:39:48 (with tweaks you can tell X to reserve more space for the keyboard) Sep 06 18:39:55 MrBIOS: is your keyboard xs? Sep 06 18:40:06 Aoi-re: i suggest the 2.x sdk then Sep 06 18:40:16 it will include the mojo docs/samples Sep 06 18:41:02 dtzWill, tweaks says so, yes, but I don't know what that means, since I don't know what it looks like Sep 06 18:41:04 alright! I will get it - thank you very much! oh .. since I'm from the windows world .. what do I need in order to create my first application (some hello world dummy) - is there some tutorial? basically what IDE/compiler etc. Sep 06 18:41:08 it looks like the normal keyboard to me Sep 06 18:41:23 MrBIOS: oh tweaks just tells X what keyboard to assume you're using Sep 06 18:41:23 dtzWill: while you're around, I was wondering what's the progress on getting xrandr fully supported, specifically with respect to auto-rotate Sep 06 18:41:40 MrBIOS: in X, like in every other webos application, you can change the keyboard size fo suit your preferences Sep 06 18:41:49 unfortunately idk how to know what size that is, so you tell X via tweaks Sep 06 18:41:50 I had a problem wih the ubuntu chroot I installed via Preware, also. When I start it (with X and Xterm running). When I choose "Start Ubuntu 11.04 chroot" from Xecutah, it states "Service error: unable to run command /sbin/initctl start org.webosinternals.ubuntu-natty-chroot" Sep 06 18:41:57 Aoi-re: there are samples and docs on how to package and install an app Sep 06 18:42:09 MrBIOS: http://www.precentral.net/resize-touchpad-keyboard-webos-3-0 Sep 06 18:42:13 compiling isn't needed unless you're doing pdk Sep 06 18:42:32 so either change your keyboard to match tweaks, or change tweaks to match your keyboard :) Sep 06 18:43:09 or... bluetooth keyboard Sep 06 18:43:18 mh.. well my long-shot aim is to write a tethering program that would work for me .. not to say the existing ones are bad (they're decent) - it's just a challange.. so I guess I'll have to do PDK for that Sep 06 18:43:27 dtzWill, thanks, that's better! :) Sep 06 18:43:43 Aoi-re: freetether is opensource Sep 06 18:43:55 oh I thought it's closed-source Sep 06 18:43:59 no Sep 06 18:44:07 its written by PuffTheMagic Sep 06 18:44:17 http://git.webos-internals.org/applications/freetether/ Sep 06 18:44:25 is there any X multitouch support yet? and... is it possible to hide the keyboard completely? fullscreen mplayer looks kinda strange if there's a keyboard below it Sep 06 18:44:28 then I'd risk a glimps at that :).. but I think I'd still need to install the SDK and some IDE + compiler, right? Sep 06 18:44:34 im sure he would check out whatever patches you submit Sep 06 18:44:49 or just build on it for your own use Sep 06 18:45:08 idk about the c side of it Sep 06 18:45:09 Maqs, there's a fantastic player in Preware I'd suggest you use instead on the touchpad, which uses mplayer I think Sep 06 18:45:11 I see .. well please consider me a noob in terms of webos-related development .. Sep 06 18:45:20 MrBIOS: maybe restart after the chroot installation? looks like the upstart job isn't there Sep 06 18:45:35 Maqs, called TouchPlayer Sep 06 18:45:44 I used to develop on normal PC :D Sep 06 18:45:48 MrBIOS: great, i didn't notice, thanks :) Sep 06 18:45:54 M25: no progress, but i mostly expect to bang it out in a session or two i just haven't had a time lately :( Sep 06 18:46:08 Maqs: no multitouch, hide keyboard in tweaks Sep 06 18:46:22 ok Sep 06 18:46:23 dtzWill, that is possible, but I have restarted multiple times. I think it may be a bug, I fat-fingered an uninstall of ubuntu chroot in preware right after I installed it the first time Sep 06 18:46:36 dtzWill, no confirmation on uninstall of an app in preware is broken UI design if you ask me Sep 06 18:47:12 MrBIOS: i don't know, sorry :/. Not especially familiar with the installation itself component of the chroot packages Sep 06 18:47:22 (so can't offhand reason about what state your device might be in) Sep 06 18:47:44 asking a user if they're sure before they do something destructive is a fundamental tenet of UI design and it's disappointing to see that violated Sep 06 18:47:58 MrBIOS: patches welcome Sep 06 18:48:12 oilsworkn, to preware app itself? Where would they go? Sep 06 18:48:22 its opensource Sep 06 18:48:31 they would go into a release Sep 06 18:48:32 that's not an answer to the question, though Sep 06 18:48:40 no, where would the patches be submitted to Sep 06 18:48:52 http://git.webos-internals.org/applications/preware/ Sep 06 18:50:04 oilsworkn, thanks, are you a contributor? Sep 06 18:50:10 yes Sep 06 18:50:44 actually I think it's not really a flaw if it doesn't ask for even more confirmation - because you can almost always reinstall it from preware again, no? Sep 06 18:51:30 Aoi-re, yes, it's a fucking flaw Sep 06 18:51:46 Aoi-re, it requires you to re-download data Sep 06 18:51:55 chill out Sep 06 18:51:58 Aoi-re, and for ubuntu-chroot, that's a lot of data Sep 06 18:52:13 wrea, I'm not angry, I just find it obnoxious that people are ignorant about UI design Sep 06 18:52:23 ah well sorry I'm certainly not going to argue with you on that .. generally I agree that it might need to reask things Sep 06 18:52:40 but tbh .. once I want to uninstall something, I dont uninstall by accident Sep 06 18:52:47 Aoi-re, also, since the uninstall button is down at the bottom of the screen, it's *really* easy to accidentally hit it on a tablet Sep 06 18:52:54 besides.. what about the "Software Catalog" where you can also uninstall things? Sep 06 18:52:59 Aoi-re, see above comment. You're missing the issue Sep 06 18:53:06 oh sorry ^^ Sep 06 18:53:18 ah now I get your point Sep 06 18:53:23 if the uninstall button weren't right on the edge of the display, it would probably be a non-issue :) Sep 06 18:53:33 and it's unlikely to ever happen on a WebOS-based phone Sep 06 18:53:52 well actually it did happen to me on my veer once :D but it wasnt a big deal Sep 06 18:54:20 yeah, I also find it somewhat annoying that people assume everybody has big fast pipes to the internet :) Sep 06 18:54:35 no such assumption was made in the design and development of preware Sep 06 18:55:04 oilsworkn, I didn't say there was that assumption, I was more responding to the 'well, you can just re-download it' sentiment Sep 06 18:55:50 I really appreciate everybodys' significant efforts on Preware, for the record :) Sep 06 18:57:01 man I remember Palm from back in the days of Psion.. and if I compare it to my phone .. and besides it.. I really fell in love with webos .. I hope it all continues! :D Sep 06 19:00:15 some notes i made for the hp touchpad.. may be useful for somebody, but use at your own risk: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11244516/touchpad.htm Sep 06 19:01:11 * oilsworkn would rather a junion bacon cheeseburger from jack in the box Sep 06 19:01:30 wrong channel Sep 06 19:01:32 :/ Sep 06 19:01:48 on a related note, if I wanted good UI design, I'd have shelled out $500 for an ipad. I'm willing to sac UI and the app store for a $400 discount Sep 06 19:02:25 cheeseburgers! Sep 06 19:04:29 lol.. ipad is closed source unless you jb it :/ I'd have bought a hp veer for twice the price if I knew it was that nice.. just need to get freetether to work without keeping the cpu always at max Sep 06 19:06:09 Aoi-re: actually, as a professional iPhone app developer, I haven't bothered jailbreaking my iPhone. If I want to add functionality, I'll just throw up a quick port, as it runs C natively on a unix-based system, many existing FOSS projects just require some UI rework and they're good to go Sep 06 19:06:42 also... how the heck do you see anything on the Veer's tiny screen? Sep 06 19:09:03 I see everything o_o it's as sharp as a knife Sep 06 19:11:18 veer having a tiny screen was why it failed Sep 06 19:11:19 imo Sep 06 19:11:58 I wish I difnt miss out on the $50 Pre2's Sep 06 19:12:32 ditto Sep 06 19:13:39 hm well I really think the veer's screen is good .. it's small, yet really sharp .. it's big enough for all the pocket stuff you want to do with it Sep 06 19:32:06 Hi, the virtual keyboard works best with webOS 2.2? Sep 06 19:47:02 yay thanks everyone for the hints - the development environment runs! :D Sep 06 19:47:42 Aoi-re: i like my veer an awful lot too Sep 06 19:47:58 esp with the tp usually on-hand it works out nicely Sep 06 19:50:40 hehe .. I wish freeTether wouldn't cause the veer to always clock at 806Mhz (or above if you overclock) Sep 06 19:50:54 but other than this program - everything is awesome! :) Sep 06 19:51:13 (the program is awesome too because it works - just not ..totally?) Sep 06 20:36:59 anyone here know how I can run a program after the wifi starts up on the touchpad, but before the music manager runs its indexing process? Or, is there a way to trigger re-indexing by the music manager without dropping wifi connectivity Sep 06 20:53:12 morning Sep 06 20:54:45 hello Sep 06 20:55:10 * oilsworkn is jealous of being able to use pre3 as main phone :( Sep 06 20:55:30 rwhitby: ^ Sep 06 21:03:48 oilsworkn: well, you wouldn't be jealous that there are some local numbers that I simply can't dial using the Pre 3. The dialpad clears itself after 1300..... Sep 06 21:05:36 well, i rarely dial outside my contact list Sep 06 21:05:39 which i dial with just-type Sep 06 21:06:04 well, since i have pizza places and what not in my contact list haha Sep 06 21:08:01 rwhitby: did you rejoin? this client is set to not register join/parts, I asked something earlier, not sure if you got it Sep 06 21:10:29 M25: he usually reads all the backlog Sep 06 21:11:12 I scan the backlog, and read things addressed to me. Sep 06 21:11:28 * rwhitby boards flight to sydney Sep 06 21:11:34 What is SDLTerminal (in preware), and what does it do? Sep 06 21:11:51 on a touchpad, nothing. Sep 06 21:12:14 I see, perhaps a description of what it actually does would be of use, in that case Sep 06 21:12:32 i want a pre3 so badly i cant stand it Sep 06 21:12:39 MrBIOS: its a terminal app Sep 06 21:12:44 why oh why could we not have a pre3 firesale in the us ;( Sep 06 21:12:51 rwhitby: before you go: how I can run a program after the wifi starts up on the touchpad, but before the music manager runs its indexing process? Or, is there a way to trigger re-indexing by the music manager without dropping wifi connectivity Sep 06 21:13:09 oilsworkn, I figured as much. Does anyone know what's preventing it from working on the TouchPad? Sep 06 21:13:23 i dont know if anyone has looked into it Sep 06 21:13:40 im stuck with a veer, and i can't even find one at firesale price ;( Sep 06 21:13:46 i refuse to pay 150% more on ebay Sep 06 21:13:48 idk if that is even a -internals project Sep 06 21:14:02 MrBIOS: why not use xterm? Sep 06 21:14:18 M25, that's what I am doing, was just curious about the state of SDLterm Sep 06 21:14:33 there has been a number of different local terminal options Sep 06 21:14:41 imho terminal/termplugin was the best Sep 06 21:14:50 Hrm. Don't suppose anyone has used the Xserver to run a remote desktop via XDMCP. Sep 06 21:14:52 is there one that works for TouchPad? Sep 06 21:15:04 xecutah Sep 06 21:15:15 but I agree with oilsworkn, I liked Terminal Sep 06 21:15:18 Guest7757: sort of... you can x-forward, and then promptly run gnome-session or what have you, and it should work Sep 06 21:15:51 Oh, bah, thought I authenticated to nickserv. Sep 06 21:16:18 That's better. Sep 06 21:17:17 I haven't really spent much time tinkering with X yet, but logging into sessions on my server would be nice. Sep 06 21:18:18 it won't log you into existing sessions Sep 06 21:18:24 at least, not like I'd like it to Sep 06 21:18:39 you can set your DISPLAY so that any program you launch shows up either locally or remotely, as you prefer Sep 06 21:18:56 which is cool, you can make windows just appear on a remote desktop with no prior warning Sep 06 21:20:10 Heh. My brother had fun with that at college, after convincing other students to run "xhost +" :) Sep 06 21:20:43 mberg, dtzWill, I just solved the window managing problem Sep 06 21:21:11 dwm is a very small and light window manager that (on my ubuntu at least) simply defaults to running all windows fullscreen and borderless Sep 06 21:21:51 if you x-forward into a machine, and run that as a background process (dwm & after login) all windows you spawn will simply fullscreen, alleviating the windows-larger-than-the-screen problem Sep 06 21:22:51 MrBIOS: yeah, sdlterminal isn't one of ours Sep 06 21:22:57 terminal/termplugin and terminus Sep 06 21:23:00 but neither work on tp afaik Sep 06 21:23:33 Nice. Sep 06 21:26:12 I really need to poke around the git repo a bit more. Interesting looking stuff here. Sep 06 21:28:01 (Of course I also need about 24 more hours in a day. :P :) Sep 06 21:30:40 yo dawg, I heard you like days Sep 06 22:14:37 M25: Just dwm? Huh. Ubuntu tried to do the same thing with 5 different packages IIRC. Compiz, Metacity, Gnome, Unity and some interim metacity replacement I forget the name of... Sep 06 22:17:02 hey guys... finally got a touchpad and looking forward to compile my own kernel. Is there by any chance a VM image of the development environment available? Sep 06 22:17:30 the sdk comes with one Sep 06 22:17:35 a vm that is Sep 06 22:18:21 I saw that the PDK came with one, but I wasn't sure if it was suitable for kernel compilation or whether a WIDK installation was needed (and/or available) Sep 06 22:18:30 idk about that Sep 06 22:20:02 if there isn't one available "off the shelf" that can compile the kernel, I could probably make one for Virtual Box, but I don't want to waste time reinventing the wheel :p Sep 06 22:24:20 rwhitby: is there a quick way to compile a package in the preware build.git, and all of its dependencies automatically? Sep 06 22:26:25 Looks like have a client for kismet I need libpanel compiled with ncurses Sep 06 22:34:55 wrea: is it not in optware? Sep 06 22:42:22 compared to a pre or ple plus. how difficult is it to disassemble a veer? Sep 06 22:44:52 destnal, ncurses is in cross-compile but doesnt provide libpanel Sep 06 22:50:11 if I to make in panel/ it only generates to .a's and im sure kismet is looking for a .so Sep 06 23:06:10 is http://www.webos-internals.org down for you guys, or just me? Sep 06 23:06:38 its down for me too! Sep 06 23:06:40 -o switch to make executable ¿ Sep 06 23:21:19 i need someone very knowledgable with the sim slots on our phones. Sep 06 23:21:21 anyone? Sep 06 23:24:19 Get me a phone and then I will be :P Sep 06 23:27:00 my poor poor little pre+ *sigh* Sep 06 23:55:07 heya! Sep 07 00:02:33 weird save+restore on my touchpad wouldn't backup the browser. hrmm.. Sep 07 00:43:21 Hi, (not sure if this the right place) but anyone have any luck with mediatomb settings for transcoding to hp touchpad? Sep 07 00:52:19 guess not Sep 07 00:53:22 VJ1, best to ask in #touchpad, I would think Sep 07 00:53:31 oh cool Sep 07 00:53:37 wasnt sure if i was in the wrong place Sep 07 00:53:40 thats for the lead Sep 07 00:53:50 thanks i mean Sep 07 00:53:57 No problem Sep 07 00:57:55 VJ1: or maybe also in #webOS.. i think i have a similar q that i've not got to yet.. Sep 07 00:59:00 thanks...its pretty quiet in both. checking the forums I will end up just tweaking handbrake of ffmpeg till i get it Sep 07 01:00:41 PuffTheMagic: mad props for changing to LNX btw! me excited :) Sep 07 01:02:10 woa, i doctored my touchpad, even added an ext3 partition, but my /media/internal didn't get wiped. weird.. oh, doesn't look like /media/ext3fs was actually created, that explains it Sep 07 01:02:58 (err, created but not allocated.. is /media/internal being 25.5G seem right?) Sep 07 01:10:28 sprint keeps fucking me. Sep 07 01:10:38 god DAMNIT. Sep 07 01:13:22 oc80z: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KqqRPvM_Sw Sep 07 01:13:33 MrBIOS: Re: SDLTerminal - you should contact the author and request that they include a description in their package in the PreCentral Feed Sep 07 01:13:39 dont fuck me god! Sep 07 01:13:47 hehe. Sep 07 01:14:27 lawl Sep 07 01:14:45 zefyx: http://bit.ly/veer-disassembly Sep 07 01:18:05 rwhitby: did the TP disassembly provide any ideas on ease of battery replacement? (for if/when the time comes) Sep 07 01:18:31 ajay, not simple Sep 07 01:18:57 its a complete disassembly as its the *last* thing you can get out of the chassis. Sep 07 01:19:19 the connector for it is *under* everything else. Sep 07 01:22:02 somebody working on tp wifi? Sep 07 01:26:24 ka6sox: eek! that's too bad.. i hope the battery will last a good number of years then! Sep 07 01:27:11 is anybody working on getting Pre3 SMS->TP support into other webOS devices? (or at least nailed down the area of interest?) Sep 07 01:28:38 ajay, not enough pre3's in the hands of devs. Sep 07 01:29:08 ajay: as soon as I get my veer, I'm going to be experimenting with it Sep 07 01:29:12 ka6sox: ah.. i was hoping the doctor'd be enough.. Sep 07 01:29:23 LarrySteeze: sweet! Sep 07 01:29:24 TTS as well Sep 07 01:29:27 does the pre3 do TTS too? Sep 07 01:29:49 yep Sep 07 01:30:19 well, i hope that they're going to release an OTA update for Pre2/Veer RSN.. (can always hope, right??) Sep 07 01:30:33 ajay, yep... :D Sep 07 01:30:33 pre2 will not have tts Sep 07 01:30:38 hope springs eternal Sep 07 01:30:47 Pre 2 does not have HW for tts Sep 07 01:30:51 exactly Sep 07 01:30:53 no a6 Sep 07 01:30:55 LarrySteeze: of course, i just want the SMS.. Sep 07 01:31:08 the veer, however, does Sep 07 01:31:14 hopefully my pre2 tethered to a TP can do as much as an android phone Sep 07 01:31:47 damn, changing bootlogo.tga on the TP doesn't seem as simple as on the pre.. weird.. Sep 07 01:32:04 siestacat! Sep 07 01:32:13 Hi. Sep 07 01:32:15 Hey Larry Sep 07 01:32:21 guess what Sep 07 01:32:26 what's up Sep 07 01:32:47 My to is officially 2x the specs of the piece of shit my school gives out and expects me to use Sep 07 01:32:51 touchpad* Sep 07 01:33:05 I'm given an iBook g4 Sep 07 01:33:14 1.33ghz powerpc Sep 07 01:33:21 I've got mine at 1.5 in the tp Sep 07 01:33:28 512mb memory in mac Sep 07 01:33:33 1gb in tp Sep 07 01:33:44 no graphics anything in mac Sep 07 01:33:53 a bit in tp Sep 07 01:34:01 40gb he on mac Sep 07 01:34:04 rwhitby: how hard would you judge replacing a sim connector on a veer to be? Sep 07 01:34:10 im handy with a soldering iron. Sep 07 01:34:24 32gb flash and 50 gb box.net on tp Sep 07 01:34:44 suffice to say my touchpad will be used for everything I so at school Sep 07 01:35:04 zefyx, you opened it up yet? Sep 07 01:35:14 whoops Sep 07 01:35:21 this is the wrong channel Sep 07 01:35:29 sorry whomever was about to complain Sep 07 01:35:39 was going to say that in #touchpad Sep 07 01:35:50 not yet. im picking the phone up tonight Sep 07 01:36:01 i've done my fair share of total replacements on pres and the variations Sep 07 01:36:34 its a $50 veer with a sim card slot missing one pin Sep 07 01:37:31 zefyx: how handy with a soldering iron are you? Sep 07 01:37:45 enough to install modchips and what-not, dating all the way back to the psx Sep 07 01:37:52 i've installed chips in ps2s, original xbox, etc. Sep 07 01:37:58 and how is the pin missing? Sep 07 01:38:09 apparently, the pin broke off Sep 07 01:38:22 at the base? Sep 07 01:40:17 ya Sep 07 01:53:41 rwhitby, dtzWill, wrea, any of you able to build PulseAudio in the build.git ? Sep 07 01:54:33 M25, havent tried yet. Been working on kismet Sep 07 01:55:03 M25, getting errors? Sep 07 01:55:30 ooh yeah, and I know I'm doing it right too. Y'all don't use pkgconfig too much in the makefiles, and that's the issue Sep 07 01:55:55 I think somehow my local machine has pkgconfig always turned on, I'm wondering if there's a way to selectively turn it off for these makefiles Sep 07 01:57:01 M25, ill try, where in build.git is it? Sep 07 01:57:12 toolchain/pulseaudio Sep 07 01:57:34 building Sep 07 02:05:24 M25, what libs does it generate? Sep 07 02:05:36 wrea: libsndfile or pulseaudio? Sep 07 02:05:43 cannot get the pre 2 into recovery, tried everything I can did up Sep 07 02:05:46 libsndfile Sep 07 02:06:20 rwhitby, dtzWill, wrea, any Sep 07 02:06:22 laksjdflkj Sep 07 02:06:32 I hate my mousepad Sep 07 02:06:55 wrea: it generates libsndfile.so, libsndfile.so.1, and libsndfile.so.1.0.17 Sep 07 02:07:14 whoa.... Sep 07 02:07:16 hmm, okay thats not it Sep 07 02:07:21 it doesn't symlink them though Sep 07 02:07:31 they're 3 apparently identical copies of the same file Sep 07 02:07:41 yeah, that happens Sep 07 02:08:31 I had a problem like what you were having. I had to ln -s a so.* to .so for kismet to find it Sep 07 02:08:31 or hardlinks, you can't really tell the difference without looking at the inode Sep 07 02:10:14 tmzt: what's the ls flag to display inode #'s? Sep 07 02:10:53 -i Sep 07 02:11:09 hi Sep 07 02:11:35 tmzt: wow, they're distinct inodes Sep 07 02:14:17 I had a lock on my touchpad while using F15C. what's an easy way to check log to see what happened? Sep 07 02:14:54 M25: on a posix fs? Sep 07 02:15:05 tmzt: ext4, ubuntu 10.10 Sep 07 02:15:11 lollol: do you have novaterm? Sep 07 02:15:14 that is weird Sep 07 02:15:44 pardon the minor flood Sep 07 02:15:49 1063246 -rwxr-xr-x 1 scott scott 1083745 2011-09-06 18:43 libsndfile.so Sep 07 02:15:49 1063247 -rwxr-xr-x 1 scott scott 1083745 2011-09-06 18:43 libsndfile.so.1 Sep 07 02:15:52 1063248 -rwxr-xr-x 1 scott scott 1083745 2011-09-06 18:43 libsndfile.so.1.0.17 Sep 07 02:16:09 wait a minute... which column is the inode number? Sep 07 02:16:36 Hi everyone, is there a way to specify IPKs to include in a metadoctor by modifying the makefile or specifying parameters? Sep 07 02:16:36 tmzt: ^ Sep 07 02:17:04 well I don't know the answer, try rwhitby :) Sep 07 02:17:19 you could put it in the jar I think though, not as an ipk Sep 07 02:17:29 I have not gotten to novaterm, does that require *nix? Sep 07 02:17:40 M25: the first colum,n would have to be... after all, inodes are different for each file Sep 07 02:17:48 no, it requires windows, linux, or osx Sep 07 02:18:10 6th column looks like file size.. Sep 07 02:18:41 unless those are all hard links to the same file, in which case they'd all have the same inode Sep 07 02:19:40 benklop: I feel like looking at some of the stuff in scripts/ would be informative to ya.. Sep 07 02:21:06 ok I will look in to getting that loaded, where is the file, can I access from internalz? Sep 07 02:22:13 ajay: yeah, i just started poking around and found "EXTRA_ROOTFS_IPKGS = " in the makefile Sep 07 02:22:30 f that works the way it sounds... it'll be perfect Sep 07 02:23:27 benklop: ROOTFS? I assume that means they go in /usr/palm/applications as opposed to /media/cryptofs/... so keep that in mind. Nice.. Sep 07 02:25:20 right, that's where I'd want them to go though, I'm looking at adding back sprint navigation, obtained from a questionable source :-\ Sep 07 02:27:09 in addition to flash and things like that Sep 07 02:30:33 Stupid ncurses Sep 07 02:30:42 http://pastebin.com/K46uX7TA Sep 07 02:33:39 lollol: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Accessing_Linux Sep 07 02:33:46 use the procedure section on the right hand side Sep 07 02:34:01 you'll end up with a root console on your computer, that's actually running on the webos device Sep 07 02:34:18 benklop: even hard links? Sep 07 02:34:26 nevermind Sep 07 02:35:08 right but where are the logs stored for the kernel? Sep 07 02:35:21 /var/logs usually Sep 07 02:36:18 lollol: /var/log/kern.log Sep 07 02:39:21 hmm **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Sep 07 02:59:57 2011