**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Feb 09 02:59:57 2012 Feb 09 03:17:17 Good evening everyone. Feb 09 03:25:45 Anyone around to answer copyright question? Feb 09 03:27:41 copyright/opensource that is. Feb 09 03:34:40 just ask Feb 09 03:37:40 ~ask Feb 09 03:37:40 Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. Feb 09 03:39:09 Am I correct in understanding that the intention of the open source time line is that all components including things like the email app will be released eventually under Apache 2.0 Feb 09 03:50:08 no Feb 09 03:52:07 PuffTheMagic: why not? Feb 09 03:52:27 i dont think they stated EVERYTHING was going to be apache 2 Feb 09 03:52:39 for example, the kernel 100% wont be Feb 09 03:52:56 PuffTheMagic: oh right but I think the stuff they control / created probably will be ASL Feb 09 03:53:04 (ASL2) Feb 09 03:53:26 Kaerey: we don't know for sure, but it seems likely Feb 09 03:55:01 Clearly they want all of webOS in Open webOS and as far as we know the majority will be ASL. Only question depends on how they define "all of webOS" ie whether things we only currently have copies of in webos 2.x stuff will be included like phone components or only webos 3.x stuff like what's on Touchpad Feb 09 03:55:26 it's possible HP has an internal webOS 3.x release for phones that just hasn't seen the light of day Feb 09 03:56:44 well there are really major problems that they should fix like the mail app and whatever webosnation had on their wishlist Feb 09 03:57:05 mainly geo restrictions Feb 09 03:57:09 what's wrong with the mail app? I love it! Feb 09 03:57:27 my pixi has threaded email :D Feb 09 03:57:43 for gmail it sucks compared to ios or android Feb 09 03:57:56 especially android Feb 09 03:58:24 Khaled, when its open there is no they, just you Feb 09 03:58:32 u have an issue with it you fix it Feb 09 03:58:35 and they have an oppurtunity here to make the best implementation with their twitter panes like ui Feb 09 03:58:43 awesome Feb 09 03:58:53 but still hp would have some control Feb 09 03:59:06 PuffTheMagic: well we can all fix it ourselves right now too Feb 09 03:59:08 or else it will be android Feb 09 03:59:20 really? I don't use my gmail much since I have my own email hosting, but I never noticed anything wrong with gmail in webOS Feb 09 03:59:33 PuffTheMagic: but sharing our fixes will be more effective once OSS'd Feb 09 03:59:39 destinal, u should port my threaded email patch to enyo Feb 09 03:59:47 yeah the only major problem is hardware Feb 09 03:59:55 especially phone hardware Feb 09 04:00:17 are there any vendors even chinese ones we know of interestes? Feb 09 04:00:24 Khaled: there are lots and lots of devices to choose from that run android today Feb 09 04:00:54 so thats the solution from crappy hardware to living on ports Feb 09 04:01:12 Khaled: how is some chinese vendor's port better than one we can do? Feb 09 04:01:39 well atleast it will be hardware specifically targted at webos Feb 09 04:01:46 and the iphone is made in chine Feb 09 04:01:53 Khaled: hardware doesn't need to be targeted at webos Feb 09 04:02:11 hardware is hardware Feb 09 04:02:21 so u are all okay to live on ports, but not one developer will want to come Feb 09 04:02:31 Khaled: I don't understand you at all Feb 09 04:02:34 Have we seen anything else from BlueStacks in webOS yet? Feb 09 04:02:34 cz no end user will buy a phone and port webos Feb 09 04:02:47 Khaled: people buy touchpads and install Android... Feb 09 04:02:49 I am saying webos cant live on ports Feb 09 04:02:57 yeah the minority Feb 09 04:03:08 and that was webos major weakness Feb 09 04:03:12 locked to sprint Feb 09 04:03:24 Khaled: yeah to your question, I mean, I imagine some Chinese vendors will make devices shipping with webos on them eventually Feb 09 04:03:29 but "the minority" will buy from them Feb 09 04:03:36 I want it to dominate and compete for the number one spot Feb 09 04:04:11 if thats the case then great for us but dont focus all this work o,n just ports Feb 09 04:04:26 Khaled: what does the word port mean to you exactly? Feb 09 04:04:31 Linux is a port to ARM Feb 09 04:04:36 it wasn't first written *for* ARM Feb 09 04:04:38 it was ported Feb 09 04:04:46 I mean getting an android device and putting webos on it Feb 09 04:04:55 regular consumers wont do that Feb 09 04:05:05 I buy Windows computers and intall Linux on them Feb 09 04:05:09 and that means no apps for us Feb 09 04:05:14 I think a lot of people do Feb 09 04:05:21 its way different than a computer Feb 09 04:05:32 havent the iphone taught us anything? Feb 09 04:05:59 * Jack87 doesnt understand the point Khaled is attempting to make Feb 09 04:06:12 we are enthusiats okay Feb 09 04:06:17 we can port webos Feb 09 04:06:32 Khaled: you're right I mean, we may get thousands and thousands of users in China Feb 09 04:06:36 but US people won't buy from them Feb 09 04:06:37 but developers only go to succesful big market share oses Feb 09 04:06:52 so if webos doesnt get any marketshare then no apps Feb 09 04:07:09 I mean look at microsoft and how it is pushing it Feb 09 04:07:12 Khaled: not neccessarily true, Enyo is open source and enyo apps run on iOS and android Feb 09 04:07:21 So you can write once and run on all three Feb 09 04:07:24 and sell them for all three Feb 09 04:07:30 yeah I actually dont understand the reason behind that Feb 09 04:07:39 why care for the other guys Feb 09 04:07:41 i feel like firesale has exposed webos to a lot of big developers who will consider developing for open webos. only reason they havent so far is most likely the assumption that hp was ending webos Feb 09 04:07:48 instead of focusing on yourself Feb 09 04:08:01 yeah the firesale was an awesome move Feb 09 04:08:09 ... Feb 09 04:08:21 but still there is no decent iphone 4s level phone for webos Feb 09 04:08:26 Khaled, what do you mean other guy? Feb 09 04:08:34 i mean ios and android Feb 09 04:08:49 who is caring about them? Feb 09 04:08:56 hp is Feb 09 04:08:59 Khaled: so Verizon and ATT and Tmobile are not likely to sell webos phones Feb 09 04:09:07 I think we're a lot more likely to see mainstream webos tablets Feb 09 04:09:21 by focusing on providing apps on other platforms as if they need more Feb 09 04:09:40 Khaled: it makes Enyo more attractive to developers Feb 09 04:09:45 therefore webOS gets more apps Feb 09 04:09:53 Khaled, no its not... if a developer can write an app for webos and have the same app work on other platforms they would choose to write enyo Feb 09 04:10:11 well eventually every develoepr will focus on his android and ios port Feb 09 04:10:15 cz it makes him money Feb 09 04:10:18 you said it yourself. these other platforms have developers.. this is a way to encurage them to develop on enyo Feb 09 04:10:35 Khaled: but if it's trivially easy for them to sell their app for webOS too, why not? Feb 09 04:10:43 yeah to give them apps its like an endless loop Feb 09 04:10:56 Khaled: webOS is not going to crush android and iOS Feb 09 04:11:15 I mean we shouldn't at all think of how to get more apps for the other platforms Feb 09 04:11:15 third place is currently best we can hope for but third place is better than nothing Feb 09 04:11:23 this should be just stupid Feb 09 04:11:31 nor would i want webos to crush ios or android Feb 09 04:11:33 yeah thats the problem with palm Feb 09 04:11:36 and now wp Feb 09 04:11:37 Khaled: it's not about that, it's about attracting developers by being cross platform frameworks Feb 09 04:11:54 if ure aim is for third place then u wont get any Feb 09 04:12:22 what is the aim of webos ? Feb 09 04:12:30 Khaled: good question Feb 09 04:12:32 Khaled, HP made it to first place in computers... and it can make it in first place with mobile devices as well. but those other two had a head start Feb 09 04:12:38 it should be an os thats better than anything else Feb 09 04:12:52 not try to work and be compatible Feb 09 04:13:03 Khaled, all i know is webos works better than anything else for my needs and fits into my life style best hence why i use it Feb 09 04:13:05 its like giving it to them on a silver platter Feb 09 04:13:08 Khaled: Lots of linux developers want an open source Linux based operating system. Android is not really all that Linux-friendly overall Feb 09 04:13:10 there is no end all os Feb 09 04:13:15 yeah and Feb 09 04:13:26 i believe that it is still the best Feb 09 04:13:45 maybe the n9 can be compared but it remains the best imho Feb 09 04:13:50 the more people use it, the more people want to port their apps, the more phones and tablets will be made for it Feb 09 04:13:57 Khaled, haha so do i hence why i use it. as a matter of fact i won an ipad that is sitting on my desk unopened since november Feb 09 04:14:26 Dont get me started Feb 09 04:14:37 Khaled: just like when Android gained market share it takes a while to get the momentum Feb 09 04:14:42 how many people are working on webos now? Feb 09 04:14:44 Khaled, haha if you read the instructions on how to port android to touchpad by the folks of cyanogenmod you will see them state how they like webos Feb 09 04:14:59 really Feb 09 04:15:01 lol Feb 09 04:15:14 even the verge guys loved it Feb 09 04:15:30 it will all take time. Feb 09 04:15:34 Khaled: so we start with ports to existing phones to make more dev devices available Feb 09 04:15:43 the verge guys have been fans of webOS from the beginning Feb 09 04:15:44 Khaled: china will make some phones and tablets possibly Feb 09 04:15:57 then when we get a critical mass people will demand webos devices Feb 09 04:15:58 or, at least joshtopolosky and backlon Feb 09 04:16:01 or whatever Feb 09 04:16:04 if thats the case then we should focus on one phone and one tablet Feb 09 04:16:23 Khaled, why? Feb 09 04:16:26 make it as almost hunderd percent complete on these Feb 09 04:16:28 Khaled: I agree that's a good idea Feb 09 04:16:29 i mean sure it all starts from somewhere Feb 09 04:16:37 but if a better option comes around why be stuck Feb 09 04:16:42 because if we have limited resources Feb 09 04:16:47 then we need focus Feb 09 04:16:50 Jack87: yeah I think I agree with him that we need to focus on one *first* to get it SOLID Feb 09 04:16:56 then more Feb 09 04:16:59 maybe the n9 qnd the galaxy nexus Feb 09 04:17:05 Galaxy Nexus I agree with Feb 09 04:17:12 yeah exactly Feb 09 04:17:13 * halfhalo waits for it... Feb 09 04:17:24 it's soooo big Feb 09 04:17:37 thats what she said Feb 09 04:17:38 destinal, well ya.. it all starts from one... but after the first one if the option to port is more fisable to a newer device why not Feb 09 04:17:49 yeah but awesome Feb 09 04:17:51 Sure but there should kind of be some open reference platform Feb 09 04:18:03 maube for a tablet the galaxy tab 10.1 Feb 09 04:18:14 but we should foucs on phones first Feb 09 04:18:19 destinal, well ya ideas of already been floating around for that at #novaports Feb 09 04:18:25 as thats a weakness and we have a touchpad Feb 09 04:18:40 so phones are a pirority Feb 09 04:18:44 Khaled: FWIW I think HP may provide us fully working ports for a couple of mostly open devices like Galaxy Nexus Feb 09 04:18:56 just a question ks the gesture Feb 09 04:18:57 If they don't, we can still do it ourselves Feb 09 04:19:04 are gone for phones? Feb 09 04:19:22 Khaled: yeah gesture area is gone in webos 3.x AFAIK Feb 09 04:19:24 well, it's the Linux Foundation kernel, right? Feb 09 04:19:27 and upward Feb 09 04:19:32 Khaled, ya gestures are awesomness of webos.. and it be sad to not be able to use them in ported hardware but there will be alternatives for them im sure Feb 09 04:19:40 cz if it is still there then we will have a major problem porting Feb 09 04:19:47 yeah pretty much Feb 09 04:20:16 I always liked the back gesture vs a bck button on like ics Feb 09 04:21:11 its all software so who knows there maybe future solutions Feb 09 04:21:34 maybe like the n9 with bezel stuff Feb 09 04:21:43 Jack87: well we can always support gesture area on devices with extra room. some have button areas that are all one area Feb 09 04:21:52 so we could use it like gesture area Feb 09 04:22:14 like Android treats it like buttons but it's really one large touchscreen Feb 09 04:22:14 could u name me one phone? Feb 09 04:22:29 err touch surface Feb 09 04:22:29 destinal, thats what i was thinking.. also bottom portion of screen might work to in some casses that can be toggled on and off Feb 09 04:22:30 we could just fake a gesture area Feb 09 04:22:32 not a s screen Feb 09 04:22:56 (black box at the bottom) Feb 09 04:23:00 it can be solved its not a problem Feb 09 04:23:17 although would be better if done like touchpad Feb 09 04:23:21 Khaled, Evo3D experimenting is being done Feb 09 04:23:23 to be consistant Feb 09 04:23:49 PuffTheMagic: the evo3d has a button area that's all a capacitive touch service we could swipe along, right? Feb 09 04:23:51 so a back button on the buttom of any app would be ideal Feb 09 04:24:07 s/service/surface/ Feb 09 04:24:07 destinal meant: PuffTheMagic: the evo3d has a button area that's all a capacitive touch surface we could swipe along, right? Feb 09 04:24:18 the droid incredible 2 does Feb 09 04:24:21 Khaled, that would be up to developers which can not be controled Feb 09 04:24:29 buttons were so 2011 Feb 09 04:24:43 Well open source shouldnt be a mess Feb 09 04:24:55 it should be balanced with some control or guidance Feb 09 04:24:58 stupid iphone and its button! and dumb Touchpads with their button Feb 09 04:25:05 look at the android design guidlines Feb 09 04:25:06 Khaled: the primary platform will be Feb 09 04:25:13 * Jack87 is glad that he can at least swipe up and never use his touchpad button Feb 09 04:25:15 Khaled: HP is working on governance now Feb 09 04:25:51 so open webos 1.5 for example is done by hp but according to our demands or they are in full control? Feb 09 04:26:06 * halfhalo goes to get snacks before he starts ranting about android vs webos and buttons again Feb 09 04:26:11 on a random note which may be ignored... i just bought a playstation 3d display and dunno what i can do with it (as in unadvertised functionality) Feb 09 04:26:38 Khaled: ehh, they will have control but I believe it will be built around an open source community Feb 09 04:26:56 like forums, mailing lists, bug trackers, versioning ssystems etc Feb 09 04:27:20 I still cant get around the whole open source stuff Feb 09 04:27:22 and community patches and enhancements will be accepted etc Feb 09 04:27:36 it was just so easy to control the whole thing Feb 09 04:27:41 Khaled, my guess is community "enhancements" might be implemented in official releases Feb 09 04:27:55 well thats awesome Feb 09 04:28:08 Khaled, I dont think you understand what open source is or means Feb 09 04:28:21 Khaled: we'll see what is announced for governance Feb 09 04:28:26 so webos 3.0.5 as is works really smooth Feb 09 04:28:27 without open source... nothing would exist pretty much Feb 09 04:28:30 ? Feb 09 04:28:40 technology evolves because of open soruce Feb 09 04:28:47 Khaled: yeah 3.0.5 is a solid system, not bug-free but what is? Feb 09 04:29:13 it's very useable Feb 09 04:29:17 so compared to an ipad 2 it can go head to head? Feb 09 04:29:25 You should read up on what opensource means Feb 09 04:29:41 Khaled: performance is not quite as snappy as iOS --- iOS is all native Feb 09 04:29:48 like for example the widely used firefox is open source and it has changed browsers Feb 09 04:29:54 Khaled: but that can be improved too Feb 09 04:30:06 so is webkit platform for browsers (which i think apple created) Feb 09 04:30:32 Jack87: yes but c++ apps will still tend to be faster than javascript ones currently Feb 09 04:30:35 U sound like I said I hate open source Feb 09 04:30:54 but in fact I love the single creation of it Feb 09 04:31:13 no...from what you said I got the understanding that you did not know what open soruce is Feb 09 04:31:30 Jack87: I think english is not Khaled's first language so you may have gotten a slightly wrong impression Feb 09 04:31:40 Oh Feb 09 04:32:10 Khaled: I'm also very excited about an open source webOS Feb 09 04:32:17 that would explain the miscommunication Feb 09 04:32:22 yeah it is infact notmy dirst language Feb 09 04:32:28 first Feb 09 04:33:05 Open sourcing webOS was the best move they could make Feb 09 04:33:26 Yeah but they didnt even try Feb 09 04:33:33 it will give webOS a chance to redeem itself after HP tainted it and labled it as "unwanted" or "dead" Feb 09 04:33:38 they could have gotten the best talent Feb 09 04:33:44 oh of course Feb 09 04:33:57 and worked like hell to make it Feb 09 04:33:58 but it took one moron of a CEO to destroy any chance it ever had Feb 09 04:34:09 it just feels they wussed out Feb 09 04:34:15 it was on a good path before he destroyed it Feb 09 04:34:32 it was more then just webOS it destroyed.. he hurt HP big time billions of dollars big time Feb 09 04:35:02 Khaled: yeah it was Leo the CEO that destroyed webOS Feb 09 04:35:21 Khaled: but fortunately I think open source can save it Feb 09 04:35:22 Douch Feb 09 04:35:23 I hope so Feb 09 04:35:38 Khaled, he single handedly destroyed webOS as clatoral damage while he was working on hurting HP Feb 09 04:35:55 Trying to turn one of the biggest enterprise hardware companies into a software as a service companty Feb 09 04:35:56 * Jack87 wonders if there is a conspiracy and leo was paid under the table by apple Feb 09 04:36:03 look guys we still have the best ux Feb 09 04:36:09 when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail Feb 09 04:36:21 we need to just execute more Feb 09 04:36:23 Khaled: yes I agree, the user experience is great Feb 09 04:36:53 I still dont know if enyo is the solution fo developers Feb 09 04:37:13 lets not forget HP's dumb move of putting him in power.... but none the less it was him who ruined the company and made the stock drop probably to its lowest in a decade over night Feb 09 04:37:18 Khaled: I think we will be able to port a lot of open source apps to webos too, maybe that will help adoption Feb 09 04:37:29 stuff written for other GUIs perhaps Feb 09 04:37:39 Khaled, execute leo? agreed Feb 09 04:38:50 Jack87: yeah i have actually hacked his windows mobile to pinpoint his location Feb 09 04:38:51 Jack87: IMO preware should ship on open webos, or at least a switch that enables sideloading via the web like android has Feb 09 04:39:27 destinal, agreed Feb 09 04:39:54 or at least an official way of installing preware Feb 09 04:40:14 yeah sideloading like go to control panel, allow install from web Feb 09 04:40:20 then go to a site and click an IPK Feb 09 04:40:58 should not need SDK or any nonsense just to install apps not from catalog Feb 09 04:41:33 well thats elegant Feb 09 04:41:58 Khaled: yeah it's basically what a lot of android devices have (but not all of them since carriers like to turn that feature off0 Feb 09 04:41:59 ) Feb 09 04:42:05 this seems pretty sweet.. why isnt it in the US http://uk.playstation.com/playtv/ Feb 09 04:42:14 Khaled: so I think we should do the same thing Feb 09 04:42:16 haha sorry i am thinking playstation Feb 09 04:42:28 I have an android phone and i use this all day Feb 09 04:42:51 Khaled: Installing APK android apps from web sites you mean? Feb 09 04:43:06 yeah and qr also Feb 09 04:43:08 * dwc- sees a textwall Feb 09 04:43:31 btw is it possible to port webos on the n9? Feb 09 04:44:40 Khaled: I imagine it would be possible Feb 09 04:44:57 that would be killer Feb 09 04:45:30 Khaled, for your viewing pleasure on n900 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbYX0-5fddM Feb 09 04:45:47 Khaled: what is difference between N9 and N900? Feb 09 04:46:26 maybe n950? Feb 09 04:46:37 destinal, i have no idea Feb 09 04:46:44 is N950 like N9 with a keyboard? Feb 09 04:46:47 Khaled: ^ Feb 09 04:47:10 the n950 was a developers phone iirc Feb 09 04:47:37 9n is supposed to be better than n900 Feb 09 04:47:59 just watching the video reminded me of how much i hateed the long wait for booting Feb 09 04:48:14 is that fixed on webos3? Feb 09 04:48:34 http://geekaphone.com/compare/Nokia-N9-vs-Nokia-N900 Feb 09 04:49:09 Is this a legitimate store? http://www.vendio.com/stores/adamsstoreltd/item?lid=23163498 Feb 09 04:49:16 Khaled, boot time is never fun. its better on webOS 3.x.x on my touchpad but its not instant by any means Feb 09 04:49:32 looks scary Feb 09 04:49:50 all caps words on the left.. all lower case links on top Feb 09 04:51:36 Khaled: a port to N9 would be attractive to get meego developers to check out open webos Feb 09 04:55:37 o.O Feb 09 04:55:45 that's assuming meego devs care about webos Feb 09 04:56:29 moving from one dead project to another dead project Feb 09 04:56:30 Yeah, you can still buy N9 devices ... Feb 09 04:56:45 if anything, they might want to go to tizen Feb 09 04:57:01 * rwhitby chuckles that someone thinks tizen is real Feb 09 04:58:40 rwhitby: heh why would people want to reinvent the wheel doing another "web" OS when webos is about to be OSS Feb 09 04:58:46 I know, it's Intel.. Feb 09 04:59:50 because tizen/meego/maemo were around before webos oss'd? Feb 09 05:00:05 tizen is around? Feb 09 05:00:32 it's working on it. Feb 09 05:00:33 Khaled, HP wouldnt be wasting the $$ on opensourcing webos if they didnt think they could recoup that money, which right now can only come from app sales, so they have to be expecting some HW vendors to release some devices now that the OS is free Feb 09 05:01:12 PuffTheMagic: or they're planning future devices Feb 09 05:01:31 PuffTheMagic: or they just have a flawed business plan :P Feb 09 05:01:41 destinal, they need something to keep devs and users in that interim 1-2 year time Feb 09 05:01:44 i do wonder how webos would have turned out Feb 09 05:01:53 if mark hurd was still CEO Feb 09 05:02:02 PuffTheMagic: yeah I think that's what it is too Feb 09 05:02:15 PuffTheMagic: keep webOS alive so they can make webOS stuff in a year or two Feb 09 05:02:32 SoulShadow, they would be in the same place because he Pre1 and Pre2 and Pixi sucked Feb 09 05:02:35 and to keep it going they need to inject a lot more vitality Feb 09 05:02:44 PuffTheMagic: well we know palm + hardware = no Feb 09 05:02:56 hell, palm+underlying software = no Feb 09 05:03:00 palm + design = yes Feb 09 05:03:16 SoulShadow: they should have done what Barnes and Noble did and contracted with known good hardware folks to make their hardware Feb 09 05:03:25 destinal, all the companies that were interested in webos but didnt want to buy it now have reason to play with it Feb 09 05:03:27 i have a touchpad Feb 09 05:03:30 it's laughable. Feb 09 05:03:37 esp those that feel shafted by the google/moto merger Feb 09 05:03:48 google bought moto for patents. Feb 09 05:03:51 nothing else Feb 09 05:03:52 SoulShadow: ehh, I think Touchpad competes well with first iPad and is not walled garden Feb 09 05:03:57 destinal Feb 09 05:04:08 if you gave someone an ipad and a touchpad, 99.9% would chose the ipad Feb 09 05:04:17 it's better built, and just overall a nicer experience. Feb 09 05:04:26 the touchpad's build quality is utterly shit Feb 09 05:04:28 SoulShadow, google has always shown moto favoritism, early access, etc Feb 09 05:04:37 touchpad is a definite step up over other palm devices, but hp went budget laptop on it. Feb 09 05:04:38 PuffTheMagic: not really no Feb 09 05:04:40 im sure HTC loves that Feb 09 05:04:57 the back of my touchpad is ultra-scratched and i barely ever had it out of a case Feb 09 05:05:08 SoulShadow: yeah the back was bad Feb 09 05:05:21 they fixed this with touchpad go Feb 09 05:05:25 but never released it Feb 09 05:05:26 SoulShadow, do those scratches affect performance or usability Feb 09 05:05:26 i actually popped the entire thing out of the back case by accident Feb 09 05:05:38 PuffTheMagic: performance under webos without preware is terrible. Feb 09 05:05:49 i asked about scratches Feb 09 05:05:58 they affect usability, yes. Feb 09 05:06:04 because it looks bad. Feb 09 05:06:10 oh ok Feb 09 05:06:16 people are fickle. Feb 09 05:06:39 i love people that buy new phones every 6 months and then wrap them in retarded otter boxes which double their size and weight Feb 09 05:06:48 it's so they don't break. Feb 09 05:06:54 because companies use cheap materials Feb 09 05:07:06 if i dropped my TP i'm pretty sure it would break Feb 09 05:07:34 a case wont help that Feb 09 05:07:40 yes it will Feb 09 05:07:47 my Pre 2 is 1.25 years old, no boxes, no skins. Is that weird? Feb 09 05:07:50 it absorbs some of the shock, lessening the chance of breaking Feb 09 05:08:03 SoulShadow, for a 2cm drop sure Feb 09 05:08:09 .. Feb 09 05:08:48 * Jack87 is a proud 0.01%er Feb 09 05:09:19 if anyone bought a touchpad at full price i feel really bad for them. Feb 09 05:09:33 SoulShadow, why? we got the price difference Feb 09 05:09:42 i got 4 toucpads for the price of 1 Feb 09 05:09:46 Omg Puffthemagic, my wife has an iphone and an ipad and she's got them both in Otterbox cases (of course she also teaches the kid of the owners of otterbox and got a $200 gift card from them for xmas). Feb 09 05:10:09 did they? okay, i didn't know they offered price changes for the people who bought thembefore hand Feb 09 05:10:17 yup Feb 09 05:10:23 but it's still a big 'wtf', for $500 there were much better tablets out there Feb 09 05:10:26 over this thing Feb 09 05:10:32 I don't freakin understand people who ruin the beauty of a slim device with an otterbox. Feb 09 05:10:38 Loudergood, my pre2 is same way... not quit one year yet Feb 09 05:10:41 Kaerey, ++ Feb 09 05:10:44 Kaerey: people with the drops Feb 09 05:10:54 i know quite a few people who need otterboxes Feb 09 05:10:54 lol Feb 09 05:11:10 Pretty much all my devices save for that stupid pandaphone are in perfect condition Feb 09 05:11:17 SoulShadow, they also need helmets and ride the short bus Feb 09 05:11:21 the owners are great people, I drive by their HQ every day to work. To give $200 to each of their kids 8 middle school teachers for xmas is a pretty awesome thing! Feb 09 05:11:40 PuffTheMagic: no, some people just drop things more often than others Feb 09 05:11:44 * Jack87 paid full price for TP originally Feb 09 05:11:57 honestly, a fully stock touchpad is a horrible device. Feb 09 05:12:03 i will stand by that opinion all day every day. Feb 09 05:12:14 * halfhalo paid full minus 100 for one, then stood in line for hours for two Feb 09 05:12:15 with preware webos becomes usable, but it really shines when you remove webos Feb 09 05:12:20 i love my stock touchpad Feb 09 05:12:22 haha Feb 09 05:12:38 no need for an OC'd kernel Feb 09 05:12:39 Pretty much all my touchpads are stock + wirc/wterm Feb 09 05:12:51 webos never used the internals to their peak Feb 09 05:12:58 especially without the preware logging patches Feb 09 05:13:00 Except for one, which is the do crazy stuff Feb 09 05:13:06 one of my touchpads runs pretty much stock the other no.. they both work just fine Feb 09 05:13:06 nothing in preware fixes the real issues the TP Feb 09 05:13:09 hell my pre- dual boots to android Feb 09 05:13:12 like the piece of shit browser Feb 09 05:13:22 PuffTheMagic: no, preware doesn't fix webos, but it makes it bearable Feb 09 05:13:22 and horrid pdf viewer Feb 09 05:13:49 i run ICS on my touchpad, and it's not great, but it's better than webos Feb 09 05:13:57 * halfhalo can't stand android Feb 09 05:14:00 SoulShadow: yes, yes it is. Feb 09 05:14:02 though it'd be about 100x better if hp had gone with a standard 16:10 resolution Feb 09 05:14:04 what is so unbearable about webos? Feb 09 05:14:17 it's slow, there's no apps, the lack of a good browser, etc. Feb 09 05:14:24 PufftheMagic: it's surprisingly slow. Feb 09 05:14:37 to me, it feels like it wasn't designed with a tablet experience in mind Feb 09 05:14:50 SoulShadow, how does preware fix no apps and browser issues? Feb 09 05:14:53 google actually made a tablet experience with honeycomb/ics Feb 09 05:14:58 PuffTheMagic: it fixes the lag Feb 09 05:15:03 LOL Feb 09 05:15:18 which then makes it okay for simple browsing or anything like that Feb 09 05:15:23 but for anything more, to android we go Feb 09 05:15:27 I never really noticed until I forced myself to use android for a full week. But ICS can be MUCH faster than webOS. Feb 09 05:15:31 the browser doesnt suck because of lag Feb 09 05:15:53