**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Feb 15 02:59:57 2012
Feb 15 03:02:42 <EricBlade> i haven't looked into what's out so far for 2.0 to have any idea there, although most of what i use is the UI stuff, so I kinda have to wait there anyway.
Feb 15 03:03:29 <EricBlade> My guess is that it won't be difficult to just move the whole thing over to the new toolkit, replace any bits that aren't there yet or what not, and probably be ok, but i really want to restructure the program
Feb 15 03:18:14 <kill_dano> EricBlade: I see you have gvoice for android... was that with Enyo crossplatform?
Feb 15 03:20:55 <EricBlade> yes sir
Feb 15 03:21:17 <EricBlade> exactly the same app, just without notifications and voicemail support, haven't quite figured those out yet
Feb 15 03:43:17 <bnceo> yo yo
Feb 15 03:43:18 <bnceo> wut up
Feb 15 07:53:55 <swisstomcat> morning
Feb 15 07:58:50 <tdo> heila
Feb 15 16:12:35 <r9s> how can I download system webos files to computer via cable? on linux
Feb 15 16:12:48 <r9s> from /usr/palm/
Feb 15 16:18:24 <r9s> i guess i must copy files to /media/internal/ ...
Feb 15 16:22:55 <RagingMind> r9s, all the system files are also available in the webos doctors (jar files that you can open with most unzip tools)
Feb 15 16:23:54 <r9s> RagingMind: thanks
Feb 15 18:16:11 <creationix> hello everyone
Feb 15 18:17:10 <swisstomcat> hey tim
Feb 15 18:17:49 <creationix> so I decided to refurbish all my old palm phones and start hacking on them again (with optware, node, and luvit)
Feb 15 18:18:13 <creationix> but my pre+ is getting stuck at the doctor.  never comes up after the reboot after uploading the ramdisk
Feb 15 18:19:11 <creationix> isn't there a way to force a full reset so that the doctor can restore factory settings?
Feb 15 18:32:23 <creationix> wow, sdlterm is amazing
Feb 15 18:56:30 <dtzWill> creationix: seen wterm? :D
Feb 15 19:05:53 <creationix> DTzWill, don't see it in the preware catalog on my Pre+
Feb 15 19:06:41 <dtzWill> creationix: oh, hmm.  maybe it doesn't run on those devices, yet, although other I'm not aware of the what would prevent that from working.
Feb 15 19:07:04 <dtzWill> well regardless, sorry for the misleading suggestion! :)
Feb 15 19:07:19 <creationix> no problem, I'll look at it when I get to the newer devices
Feb 15 19:07:22 <creationix> I have one of each
Feb 15 21:05:50 <RagingMind> dtzWill, it runs on a pre+, but crashes mine occasionally and it's only in the beta feeds so far
Feb 15 21:06:03 <RagingMind> creationix, ^^
Feb 15 21:20:27 <creationix> RagingMind, what's the difference.  I love how lightweight sdlterm is
Feb 15 21:20:41 <creationix> and the sdlterm keybindings are easy enough to use too
Feb 15 21:20:54 <creationix> the only thing I miss is having multiple terminals and landscape view
Feb 15 21:20:55 <RagingMind> wterm has extra on screen buttons for special characters
Feb 15 21:21:30 <RagingMind> on the TP it has a full-ish keyboard which is nice :)
Feb 15 21:22:20 <creationix> nice
Feb 15 21:22:32 <creationix> what's the tech for the rendering
Feb 15 21:22:38 <creationix> it is sdl too, or depends on x11
Feb 15 21:22:56 <creationix> or canvas in webkit
Feb 15 21:23:14 <rwhitby> creationix: recovery mode doctor, and run the doctor on the command line to see the console log
Feb 15 21:28:49 <creationix> you mean run the doctor command line and boot the phone while holding volume-up
Feb 15 21:29:08 <creationix> that's what I was doing, the last message was "waiting for device to come up" or something like that
Feb 15 21:29:14 <creationix> after uploading the ramdisk
Feb 15 21:29:35 <creationix> I waited about 40 minutes with no change, and eventually the doctor disconnected
Feb 15 21:30:06 <creationix> (fwiw, I doctored my other phones no problem, just the pre+ is being a problem)
Feb 15 21:38:19 <Brybry> creationix: wterm was built on top of sdlterminal, though sdlterminal was pretty much rewritten in the process. We use opengl es 2/shaders instead of the opengl es 1
Feb 15 21:50:51 <creationix> super cool
Feb 15 21:51:10 <creationix> I wonder why not sdl-ttf
Feb 15 21:51:21 <creationix> gl seems overkill for a text interface
Feb 15 21:51:28 <Brybry> we use sdl-ttf
Feb 15 21:51:33 <Brybry> even sdlterminal base used gl
Feb 15 21:51:38 <creationix> ok
Feb 15 21:52:07 <destinal_> creationix: turns out it's the fastest way of rendering text on the devices so far
Feb 15 21:52:07 <Brybry> your options with sdl on webos are: software render, hardware gl es 1 render, or hardware gl es 2 render
Feb 15 21:52:49 <creationix> right, and software render sucks
Feb 15 21:52:57 <Brybry> opengl es 1 is (from my understanding) just done with a wrapper in opengl es 2
Feb 15 21:52:59 <creationix> I used opengles2 for node-webgl
Feb 15 21:53:08 <creationix> com.creationix.minimason in the catalog
Feb 15 22:49:58 <LarrySteeze> #wosi-dev
Feb 15 22:50:04 <LarrySteeze> err
Feb 15 22:51:27 <dwc-> creationix: how is the midwest?
Feb 15 22:51:35 <dwc-> all settled in?
Feb 15 22:51:37 <creationix> midwest?
Feb 15 22:51:49 <creationix> Texas is considered the south ;)
Feb 15 22:51:56 <creationix> at least here in east texas
Feb 15 22:51:58 <dwc-> wasn't it you that I spoke with that was moving out from palm?
Feb 15 22:52:04 <LarrySteeze> Texas is def not the midwest
Feb 15 22:52:06 <creationix> right
Feb 15 22:52:09 <summatusmentis> also by those of us in the midwest
Feb 15 22:52:14 <dwc-> ok, I didn't think it was texas
Feb 15 22:52:23 <dwc-> I thought it was like BFE kansas or nebraska or something
Feb 15 22:52:28 <LarrySteeze> I lived in Houston and Austin
Feb 15 22:52:36 <creationix> nah, but it's fairly remote
Feb 15 22:52:40 <creationix> I live in Red Lick
Feb 15 22:52:40 <LarrySteeze> kansas isn't the midwest either
Feb 15 22:53:02 * dwc- throws up his hands, fine. this left coaster has no idea
Feb 15 22:53:23 <creationix> dwc-, yes, I'm loving my new home
Feb 15 22:53:24 <LarrySteeze> nebraska can pass for midwest, I guess ;-)
Feb 15 22:53:37 <summatusmentis> nebraska is probably midwest
Feb 15 22:54:01 <creationix> my backyard a couple months ago: http://creationix.com/panoramas/backyard.jpg and my front yard a couple days ago http://creationix.com/snowman.jpg
Feb 15 22:54:24 <dwc-> monsters!
Feb 15 22:54:44 <wrea> snow cat?
Feb 15 22:54:55 <creationix> cat or bear, not sure which
Feb 15 22:55:09 <creationix> it's all melted now, the snow didn't last 24 hours
Feb 15 22:55:13 <wrea> We made a snow cat when we got our snow last month
Feb 15 22:55:33 <swisstomcat> that's a pretty backyard!
Feb 15 22:55:41 <LarrySteeze> Wow, people came with your back yard?
Feb 15 22:56:11 <LarrySteeze> err front yard...and wait, you got snow in texas this year?
Feb 15 22:57:47 <LarrySteeze> I'm excited to get crackin'. I finally got a pre 3!
Feb 15 22:58:45 <LarrySteeze> it's an ATT device, and unfortunately, I don't have ATT, but at least I'll be able to hopefully do some work with it
Feb 15 22:58:50 <creationix> I have one of each phone, and I like them all
Feb 15 22:59:00 <summatusmentis> oh man, pre3
Feb 15 22:59:00 <creationix> except for maybe the pre+ which is basically a slower pre2
Feb 15 22:59:11 <LarrySteeze> Yeah, I don't have the pre+ or the pixi
Feb 15 22:59:13 <creationix> but the pre+ was my first, so I like it for that reason
Feb 15 22:59:50 <swisstomcat> i have all phones as well
Feb 15 22:59:57 <LarrySteeze> but I have a pre-, pre2, 2 veer's, pre3, and 3 touchpads
Feb 15 22:59:59 <swisstomcat> pre-,pre+,pixi,pre2,pre3,veer
Feb 15 23:00:18 <swisstomcat> i still like the pixi a lot
Feb 15 23:00:31 <swisstomcat> too bad no one is hot about that form factor anymore
Feb 15 23:00:35 <LarrySteeze> I almost bought one but didn't care for the form factor
Feb 15 23:00:42 <LarrySteeze> i like the slide out keyboard
Feb 15 23:03:56 <creationix> yeah, the pixi is really nice
Feb 15 23:04:02 <creationix> if only it was faster and better supported
Feb 15 23:04:08 <swisstomcat> yeah
Feb 15 23:04:19 <creationix> I just put uberkernel on mine
Feb 15 23:04:28 <creationix> it helped some, but it's still quite slow compared to the others
Feb 15 23:04:39 <LarrySteeze> that's the other reason I didn't pick one up
Feb 15 23:04:54 <LarrySteeze> it's specced lower than the pre-
Feb 15 23:05:11 <LarrySteeze> but PuffTheMagic loves his, so that says something about it
Feb 15 23:16:42 <PuffTheMagic> its speed is fine or everything I do on phones
Feb 15 23:21:19 <dwc-> make calls?
Feb 15 23:21:28 <dwc-> wait, nobody does that anymore
Feb 15 23:26:57 <HebrewHammer> Has anyone seen Systemui become unstable after a while?
Feb 15 23:27:09 <HebrewHammer> Checking JSTop I see it has over 1000 handles
Feb 16 00:32:29 <nieve> if I want to write an app to keep a particular (smallish) directory synched with dropbox instead of doing it on demand, should I use the FileMgr service or do a custom service?
Feb 16 00:34:27 <destinal_> nieve: eh, it sounds custom servicelike to me
Feb 16 00:34:36 <nieve> thanks
Feb 16 00:35:22 <nieve> I know this is not a general PDK dev channel, I was mainly asking since I hoped you guys would have all the available clue on performance & battery issues there  :)
Feb 16 00:35:34 <nieve> much appreciated, time for me to tinker some!
Feb 16 00:35:38 <destinal_> nieve: lots of examples of custom servies from a binary perspective in our git
Feb 16 00:35:45 <destinal_> or I suppose node.js is possible too
Feb 16 00:36:36 <nieve> I'd been poking around in there and was thinking I'd go node.js since I'm primarily a ruby/perl/lisp girl, but have some javascript background.  my understanding was that the 3.0.5 version is pretty far behind current?
Feb 16 00:39:28 <destinal_> nieve: well, not current node.js, but I don't think it's *that* far behind
Feb 16 00:39:42 <destinal_> I'd have to check
Feb 16 00:39:44 <wrea> its 0.3.x
Feb 16 00:39:46 <nieve> danke.
Feb 16 00:40:35 <nieve> versus 0.6.10.  bother.  still, mostly I need file I/O + hitting the Dropbox API, so it should have what I need
Feb 16 00:41:04 <wrea> err, actually its 0.4.x
Feb 16 00:41:09 <wrea> I think
Feb 16 00:41:09 <destinal_> wrea: http://forums.dropbox.com/topic.php?id=27106
Feb 16 00:41:17 <destinal_> err nieve http://forums.dropbox.com/topic.php?id=27106
Feb 16 00:41:18 <wrea> It's been awhile since I looked
Feb 16 00:41:19 <nieve> and hopefully the "javascript core" changes will also mean some improvements
Feb 16 00:41:22 <nieve> thanks!
Feb 16 00:41:38 <wrea> I thought I was special for a second there, thats for ruining my dreams
Feb 16 00:41:40 <nieve> that's hugely useful
Feb 16 00:42:04 <nieve> wrea, you're special in some way.  we'll just have to figure it out by dissection...
Feb 16 00:42:26 <wrea> damn
Feb 16 00:44:07 <nieve> destinal_: cool, it's even MIT licensed so if I eventually licensed the rest with a permissive license people could use it commercially as well
Feb 16 00:44:39 <nieve> I prefer (L)GPL, but I can see other points
Feb 16 00:45:27 <destinal_> nieve: lol re dissection :P
Feb 16 00:45:55 <nieve> argh, who the **** DOSes github?  :(
Feb 16 00:46:35 <nieve> destinal_: I'm a big fan of haruspicy?
Feb 16 01:04:38 <dwc-> nieve: it's probably all of us checking out the isis webkit repo
Feb 16 01:06:08 <nieve> at least it's a nice, small repository compared to some of the android monstrosities?
Feb 16 01:06:54 <nieve> I'm hoping for a "pinned mode" so that we don't have the annoying issues with webapps like google maps where trying to touch-scroll the map instead drags the window & snaps back
Feb 16 01:07:11 <nieve> there are a _lot_ of canvas based sites susceptible to that now  :(
Feb 16 01:56:49 <raymond> Hi, is there any document about how a service is built upon the Node.JS?
Feb 16 01:56:58 <raymond>  I mean I can see that how to write a js service, But I want to know how webOS wrap my code and make it run in Node.JS?
Feb 16 01:57:34 <raymond> any code I can read on this? seems not related lib on opensource.palm.com
Feb 16 02:00:47 <raymond> And, does all the built in services been written an js service? or some C/C++ way to implement the service?
Feb 16 02:02:06 <rwhitby> raymond: the node.js services on the device are readable
Feb 16 02:02:17 <rwhitby> just look in /usr/palm/services
Feb 16 02:03:15 <rwhitby> for homebrew services, look at https://github.com/rwhitby/hello
Feb 16 02:24:28 <creationix> I think it would be really fun to make a luvit service template
Feb 16 02:24:58 <creationix> luvit is more or less node in lua, but it's way slimmer
Feb 16 02:25:06 <creationix> 20x less ram and instant startup time
Feb 16 02:25:27 <creationix> when I was at HP, I was going to find out how to do "native" services with node and luvit
Feb 16 02:25:39 <creationix> the js service framework is a pain to deal with sometimes
Feb 16 02:41:16 <destinal_> creationix: what's luvit?
Feb 16 02:57:49 <creationix> destinal_, luvit.io
Feb 16 02:57:59 <creationix> basically it's node, but with luajit instead of v8
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Feb 16 02:59:57 2012