**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Feb 16 02:59:57 2012
Feb 16 03:00:00 <destinal_> creationix: err but webos includes v8?
Feb 16 03:00:03 <destinal_> why not use it?
Feb 16 03:00:34 <destinal_> admittedly I don't really know LUA stuffs
Feb 16 03:00:46 <creationix> v8 is heavy
Feb 16 03:00:49 <halfhalo> because that would be to logical
Feb 16 03:00:50 <halfhalo> :p
Feb 16 03:01:07 <creationix> a node service process usually starts at 10mb and 1000ms startup time
Feb 16 03:01:17 <destinal_> creationix: ah ok fair
Feb 16 03:01:51 <creationix> besides, webos is switching to jsc for webkit
Feb 16 03:01:57 <creationix> so the only thing using v8 is node
Feb 16 03:02:58 <creationix> halfhalo, you know me too well ;)
Feb 16 03:03:38 <destinal_> creationix: jsc really?
Feb 16 03:04:08 <destinal_> creationix: hmm I wonder how much better performance we could get rewriting all services in LUA :)
Feb 16 03:04:37 <destinal_> or just native C or C++ for that matter :)
Feb 16 03:05:46 <nieve> true
Feb 16 03:05:58 <nieve> but boy oh boy do I hate seeing memory management errors
Feb 16 03:06:16 <nieve> and a lot of people just can't be trusted to remember everything with C?
Feb 16 03:06:19 <nieve> :(
Feb 16 03:06:38 <creationix> well, in my testing, luajit has the exact speed of raw C  using libuv
Feb 16 03:06:45 <creationix> it uses a little more ram, but nothing like node
Feb 16 03:07:13 <creationix> http hello world was getting 40,000 reqs/second without keepalive on my desktop
Feb 16 03:07:23 <creationix> (node was getting about 10k
Feb 16 03:11:07 <destinal_> creationix: nice
Feb 16 03:11:21 <destinal_> sounds like a worthy side project,
Feb 16 03:11:29 <creationix> it *is* rather unstable at the moment, going through a refactor
Feb 16 03:11:39 <creationix> but hopefully I get a stable release out within the week
Feb 16 03:12:00 <raymond> rwhitby:  Thanks! I will look into your hello example. While is there any doc about the js service framework itself? I mean , not how to write a js service, but how these js code been launched and by whom, and how the js service framework is built upon node.js or? Sorry that my question might looks stupid, maybe there are some doc but I don't find them?
Feb 16 03:12:45 <rwhitby> There are some videos from the Developer Days on the Palm youtube channel I believe.
Feb 16 03:13:39 <creationix> I remember seeing some diagrams in the private internal wiki, but I don't think anything was published
Feb 16 03:13:49 <creationix> and the diagrams didn't really help me either
Feb 16 03:15:46 <creationix> rwhitby, you've done native services right?  Was that for catalog publishable apps or just homebrew apps?
Feb 16 03:16:24 <destinal_> creationix: lots of native services examples in our git repos
Feb 16 03:16:47 <destinal_> preware, wIRC, others?
Feb 16 03:17:11 <creationix> that's what I thought, I'll look at those when I get a chance to build luvit on my webos devices
Feb 16 03:17:23 <raymond> rwhitby, and it seems there are some API like LSRegisterPalmService in your code, where can I found API doc for these ones?
Feb 16 03:18:46 <rwhitby> raymond: there is none
Feb 16 03:19:14 <rwhitby> there are header files at http://git.webos-internals.org/libraries/lunaservice/
Feb 16 03:19:32 <raymond> cool, that should be enough
Feb 16 03:41:55 <Compn> did that isis browser get some binaries for touchpad yet ?
Feb 16 03:45:05 <summatusmentis> Compn: it's apparently pretty significant to build and get working properly
Feb 16 03:54:33 <Compn> summatusmentis : crap
Feb 16 04:15:12 <nieve> Compn: several of the webOS Internals folks are working directly with HP on it, though
Feb 16 04:15:36 <nieve> last post I saw estimated "a couple of weeks", that's entirely reasonable to me
Feb 16 04:16:58 <Compn> has anyone used the browser? is it good ?
Feb 16 04:17:03 * Compn wants opera
Feb 16 04:17:09 <halfhalo> ...
Feb 16 04:19:36 <Compn> did i fundamentally misunderstand what isis is ?
Feb 16 04:20:30 <rwhitby> It's a new paint job on a mini, not a new engine, transmission or chassis to turn it into a Ferrari.
Feb 16 04:21:04 <rwhitby> You need all the other components to do that.
Feb 16 04:21:16 <Compn> ah i saw the article
Feb 16 04:21:19 <Compn> how did talking to hp go ?
Feb 16 04:22:13 <Compn> ah i see your post on the forums now
Feb 16 04:22:14 <Compn> nm
Feb 16 04:22:23 <benklop_> rwhitby: just the person I wanted to thank for hard work and dedication :-)
Feb 16 04:23:36 <Compn> can anyone recommend an image viewer? i have several hundred images to view and i'd like it if they were zoomed and easily go back/forward between pages
Feb 16 04:23:57 <Compn> theres a few comic apps i guess
Feb 16 04:25:45 <benklop_> out of curiosity, does the eventual switch to qtwebkit mean there is also a larger shift to qt for other underlying code? I realize GUI code will still remain html/JavaScript,  but as a qt programmer, I find myself wondering...
Feb 16 04:27:08 <Brybry> pretty sure a lot of the UI was already done with Qt
Feb 16 04:34:34 <benklop_> I thought the ui was all Enyo? if not, cool - all the more for me to tinker with.
Feb 16 04:36:58 <Compn> hmm?
Feb 16 04:37:12 <Compn> who says anything is switching to qt ?
Feb 16 04:38:31 <cryptk> Compn, are you out of the loop?
Feb 16 04:38:37 <Compn> yes
Feb 16 04:38:44 <Compn> i mean, i know isis is qt
Feb 16 04:38:51 <Compn> but ... uuhhhh
Feb 16 04:38:53 <cryptk> QtWebKit is what powers the Isis browser which is part of Open webOS
Feb 16 04:38:59 <Compn> right
Feb 16 04:39:04 <cryptk> and since webOS is a web tech based OS...
Feb 16 04:39:15 <cryptk> if you update the core browser...
Feb 16 04:39:22 <cryptk> come on... put 2 and 2 together Compn
Feb 16 04:39:35 <cryptk> granted, this is not the same as what that article on webOSnation was talking about
Feb 16 04:39:38 <Compn> see, i didnt know the browser was the core
Feb 16 04:39:46 <Compn> because that would make it like internet explorer ...
Feb 16 04:39:51 <Compn> a very dumb idea
Feb 16 04:39:56 <Compn> nyuk nyuk nyuk
Feb 16 04:40:00 <dwc-> or chromeos?
Feb 16 04:40:06 <cryptk> for an Isis install on existing devicec, it will most likely be a "side by side" installation, not a replacement of the core browser components
Feb 16 04:40:37 <cryptk> Compn, all the SDK apps are written in Enyo... which is powered by JS, which generates HTML and CSS...
Feb 16 04:40:45 <cryptk> all of that is rendered in a browser
Feb 16 04:41:03 <cryptk> the fact that it is rendered in a browser is just hidden from you
Feb 16 04:41:11 <cryptk> but webkit is still what renders it
Feb 16 04:41:20 <Compn> yeah i'm seeing the picture
Feb 16 04:41:24 <cryptk> change the webkit core of webos, and you just changed all the apps ;)
Feb 16 04:41:29 <Compn> i just dont like JS so i was hoping ...
Feb 16 04:41:58 <cryptk> you were hoping that somehow the phone magically transformed JS into PHP or C++ when you ran the app?
Feb 16 04:44:03 <Compn> just hoping that the browser and the js engine were seperate
Feb 16 04:44:28 <Compn> not important
Feb 16 04:44:32 <Compn> just being a noob i guess
Feb 16 04:49:33 <benklop_> yeah.. the only thing that disappoints me about webOS is that I seem to be a lot better at developing Qt c++ apps than html/js apps. granted,  I have not really tried very hard...
Feb 16 04:53:28 <Compn> dwc- : i'd ask a dumb question like why no chromeos on webos ?
Feb 16 04:58:20 <Compn> anyone notice images having corruption sometimes when browsing ?
Feb 16 04:58:29 <Compn> like a line of pixels
Feb 16 05:00:30 <rrix> an OS on an OS? That doesn't make any sense.
Feb 16 05:05:41 <Compn> yeah, i think i need to get some sleep
Feb 16 05:06:09 <Compn> i was thinking of javascript emulator, like that linux kernel in javascript...
Feb 16 05:07:20 * rrix blinks
Feb 16 05:07:48 <Brybry> benklop_, your typical app UI is enyo/mojo but I think (I'm not an expert on this) that luna uses Qt for a lot (all?) of the system UI/launcher/tray/etc
Feb 16 05:07:58 <nieve> which, by the way, ran perfectly on firefox on X on an ubuntu chroot on top of webos  :)
Feb 16 05:08:47 <nieve> I believe the keyboards are binary as well and out of Qt
Feb 16 05:08:50 <Compn> rrix : http://bellard.org/jslinux/
Feb 16 05:09:06 <rrix> Compn: Yes, i know what that is, I still don't. Like, comprehend
Feb 16 05:09:09 <rrix> Your words
Feb 16 05:09:28 <Compn> i thought chrome was able to be 'booted' inside of any browser
Feb 16 05:09:32 <Compn> i was misthinking
Feb 16 05:09:42 <Compn> chromeos that is
Feb 16 05:09:43 <rrix> Sure, that doesn't make it a good idea by any stretch of the imagination
Feb 16 05:09:45 <Compn> not chrome browser
Feb 16 05:10:28 * rrix shrugs and wanders off
Feb 16 05:10:38 <rrix> I love the scrollback in this channel, it's always so fun
Feb 16 05:11:07 <nieve> I think I am starting to get confused on things I was quite clear on before?  :P
Feb 16 05:11:34 <rrix> nieve: My brain hurts too much to finish making these tests pass, too
Feb 16 05:11:44 <nieve> oy, fun.
Feb 16 05:12:46 <nieve> hmm, I am now reminded that I need to figure out what the **** my dirt-cheap RockSoul ipad bluetooth keyboard is doing with shift/capslock and see if I can hook into the input event stream somewhere to fix it
Feb 16 05:13:03 <nieve> (I've verified it's a problem with generic linux as well)
Feb 16 05:14:52 <benklop_> Brybry: if so, that would be just awesome. I guess I'll wait until Luna source is released.. then if it is Qt, its time to tinker!
Feb 16 05:17:17 <benklop_> frankly I'll probably tinker anyway
Feb 16 05:18:21 <nieve> the bits they've release so far seem more amenable to tinkering than the AOSP stuff, but perhaps I'm just anti-java/dalvik
Feb 16 05:21:00 <benklop_> I kinda am too, but I still think dalvik in webOS  would be pretty cool
Feb 16 08:17:44 <swisstomcat> morning
Feb 16 14:58:01 * Compn needs offline wikipedia for touchpad
Feb 16 14:58:57 <Compn> offline dictionary would be useful too
Feb 16 14:59:47 <cryptk> Compn, do you know how massively large an offline wikipedia would be?
Feb 16 14:59:52 <cryptk> it wouldn't fit on the touchpad
Feb 16 15:01:42 <Compn> cryptk : whats it like being wrong all the time ?
Feb 16 15:02:09 <Compn> http://lifehacker.com/157398/put-wikipedia-on-your-ipod
Feb 16 15:02:22 <Compn> The English Wikipedia library is a little over 750 MB
Feb 16 15:02:37 <Compn> obviously, its grown since 2006
Feb 16 15:02:41 <Compn> so it will be a few gb
Feb 16 15:03:13 <Compn> http://lifehacker.com/355036/put-all-of-wikipedia-on-your-iphone-or-ipod-touch
Feb 16 15:03:17 <Compn> from 2008 says 2.2gb
Feb 16 15:03:44 <cryptk> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Size_of_Wikipedia
Feb 16 15:03:51 <cryptk> Compn, hows it feel to be wrong all the time?
Feb 16 15:04:29 <Compn> (4GB in English, 2GB for other languages).
Feb 16 15:04:32 <Compn> http://thenextweb.com/apps/2011/06/15/all-of-wikipedia-brings-all-of-wikipedia-to-your-iphone-ipad-for-offline-reading/
Feb 16 15:05:06 <Compn> offline, mobile version of wikipedia, then
Feb 16 15:05:07 <Compn> jeeze
Feb 16 15:05:27 <cryptk> and http://static.wikipedia.org/downloads/April_2007/en/
Feb 16 15:05:43 <cryptk> that is from April of 2007
Feb 16 15:06:12 <cryptk> here is from 2008
Feb 16 15:06:13 <cryptk> http://static.wikipedia.org/downloads/2008-06/en/
Feb 16 15:06:27 <cryptk> all tolled that is about 15GB
Feb 16 15:06:27 <Compn> yeah but thats also got a lot of user pages and stupid crap not needed by most people
Feb 16 15:06:31 <cryptk> and that is just the HTML
Feb 16 15:08:25 <cryptk> actually, that link I gave you from 2008
Feb 16 15:08:31 <cryptk> that is a 14GB compressed file
Feb 16 15:08:37 <cryptk> it has ONLY article pages
Feb 16 15:08:41 <cryptk> and no images
Feb 16 15:08:46 <cryptk> so I repeat...
Feb 16 15:08:56 <cryptk> Compn, hows it feel being wrong all the time?
Feb 16 15:08:56 <Compn> heres a 470mb 'optimized' version for android phones > https://sites.google.com/site/pathfindertechs/
Feb 16 15:09:47 <cryptk> and what have they done to optimize 14GB of compressed data down to 470MB?
Feb 16 15:10:12 <cryptk> it's 14GB in a tar.7z, and 7z is pretty damn good at compressing plain text
Feb 16 15:10:16 <cryptk> and html is plain text
Feb 16 15:10:23 <Compn> you just want to argue bout stuff :D
Feb 16 15:10:32 <cryptk> the "optimized" database likely only has a selection of the most popular articles
Feb 16 15:10:45 <Compn> then thats likely what i'll be content with
Feb 16 15:11:16 <cryptk> not arguing... just saying that you were wrong when you insinuated that wikipedia would fit on a touchpad ;)
Feb 16 15:11:26 <Compn> well , you said 14gb compressed
Feb 16 15:11:33 <Compn> and that fits, compressed, on my 32gb touchpad
Feb 16 15:11:37 <cryptk> 14GB compressed, just the html
Feb 16 15:11:39 <cryptk> no images
Feb 16 15:11:45 <Compn> so it fits, and you were wrong
Feb 16 15:11:54 <cryptk> and how would you use it?
Feb 16 15:11:58 <Compn> didnt say it had to be useable
Feb 16 15:12:07 <cryptk> and no, because a dump of just the HTML is not wikipedia
Feb 16 15:12:31 <cryptk>  Compn needs offline wikipedia for touchpad
Feb 16 15:12:35 <cryptk> direct quote
Feb 16 15:13:01 <cryptk> if you need to have an offline wikipedia on your TP, then it isn't going to do you much good having a compressed archive ;)
Feb 16 15:14:17 <Compn> anyways, can we agree that there are mobile offline wikipedia versions available for phones and tablets ?
Feb 16 15:14:17 <cryptk> jsut the index of the html files in the archive is over 690MB
Feb 16 15:14:24 <cryptk> not complete ones
Feb 16 15:14:34 <Compn> anyways, can we agree that there are incomplete mobile offline wikipedia versions available for phones and tablets ?
Feb 16 15:14:52 <cryptk> heavily incomplete, yes
Feb 16 15:15:03 <Compn> great. now i want one of those incomplete ones on my touchpad
Feb 16 15:15:50 <cryptk> Compn, https://developer.palm.com/content/api/dev-guide.html
Feb 16 15:20:24 <Compn> looks like tomeraider can do it
Feb 16 15:20:57 <Compn> ooh cool imdb offline too
Feb 16 15:28:59 <Compn> cryptk : 31gb xml uncompressed for current revisions only, no talk or user pages > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download#English-language_Wikipedia
Feb 16 15:29:02 <Compn> ehe
Feb 16 15:30:16 <cryptk> Compn, that won't fit on the TP
Feb 16 15:30:22 <Compn> i know
Feb 16 15:30:52 <cryptk> so your point was?
Feb 16 15:32:57 <Compn> you're right, a full ver wont fit
Feb 16 15:34:11 <cryptk> I knew I was right
Feb 16 15:34:19 <cryptk> you were the one who thought I was wrong
Feb 16 15:34:54 <cryptk> and in reality, running the app off a 31GB xml file (assuming for a moment that it would fit) would be terribly slow
Feb 16 15:35:08 <cryptk> you would want to database it, otherwise you would have horrendous lag to bring up any page
Feb 16 15:40:52 <Compn> this might be useful
Feb 16 15:40:53 <Compn> http://owi.sourceforge.net/
Feb 16 15:42:02 <Compn> uses regular local browser
Feb 16 15:43:41 <cryptk> very old and staled
Feb 16 15:44:10 <Compn> yep
Feb 16 15:44:25 <Compn> 4 years old :P
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Feb 16 17:05:12 <sethron> is it odd for /etc/palm/luna-platform.conf to be missing in a Sprint Franken Pre2 meta-doctored to 2.2.4?
Feb 16 17:07:46 <dwc-> you can load files out of a zip or whatever so it might fit ok
Feb 16 17:30:55 <cryptk> sethron, mine doesn't have it
Feb 16 17:36:10 <sethron> cryptk: perhaps because 2.2.4 is a mask?
Feb 16 17:36:28 <cryptk> no clue
Feb 16 17:37:25 <sethron> cryptk: hmm, interesting, thank you.
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