**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Apr 05 02:59:58 2012
Apr 05 04:40:59 <rwhitby> Morning
Apr 05 12:41:31 <tyrok> Is there anywhere I can download the old X.Org packages for webOS?  I've had a hard time getting the new one working for some reason.  Basically the packaged versions of http://git.webos-internals.org/zzzobsolete/xserver-pkg/ and http://git.webos-internals.org/zzzobsolete/xlib-pkg/
Apr 05 16:13:42 <rrix> well, that's cute, it appears my device isn't reading application databases any more
Apr 05 16:13:56 <rrix> Various things going LOLNO or just failing to launch
Apr 05 17:44:59 <rrix> Cool, it looks like that is indeed the case; which means I can't preware saved package list or save/restore :)
Apr 05 18:04:51 <dtzWill> tyrok: old packages are listed http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-internals/armv7/
Apr 05 18:05:26 <dtzWill> tyrok: j/w, what issue(s) are you seeing, on what device? don't have the dev bandwidth i used to but still would be good to track these things :)
Apr 05 18:17:52 <rrix> hi dtzWill, how's it going?
Apr 05 18:32:58 <dtzWill> rrix: hey! :D
Apr 05 18:33:02 <dtzWill> good, just getting some work done :)
Apr 05 18:33:34 <rrix> Cool :)
Apr 05 18:34:54 <rrix> Hmm, so two folks here are setting up wterm on touchpads for the first time, and their keyboards don't expand to take the full width in landscape mode, but mine does
Apr 05 18:35:01 <rrix> Anyone have an idea why that happens?
Apr 05 18:35:36 <dtzWill> o_O that's bizarre.  does it persist if you rotate to portrait and back? there's a few glitches in the state management around that iirc...
Apr 05 18:35:54 <dtzWill> otherwise might needa ping PuffTheMagic or so since I didn't play with the vkb js layout stuff myself
Apr 05 18:36:31 <rrix> dtzWill: Yeah, it's the same size as it is in portrait
Apr 05 18:40:37 <rrix> huh, fun
Apr 05 18:40:47 <rrix> su - => "su must be suid root"
Apr 05 18:41:53 <rrix> also "login must be SUID"
Apr 05 18:43:03 <rrix> Did getting root through wterm get a lot harder since I installed it or something?
Apr 05 19:05:37 <dtzWill> rrix: could've sworn there was documentation on that somewhere...
Apr 05 19:06:06 <dtzWill> rrix: https://github.com/RyanHope/wTerm/wiki/Safe-Root-Access seems like what i was thinking of
Apr 05 19:06:29 <dtzWill> and yeah it was intentionally made more annoying as a security precaution--esp since it now supports running commands from just type
Apr 05 19:06:53 <dtzWill> (aka if root was trivial, installing wterm would let any app who cared to fire a message across to run root commands, or something)
Apr 05 19:07:08 <rrix> Yeah
Apr 05 19:07:37 <rrix> dtzWill: It's just weird that there's a setup window with root password dialog, but it doesn't ... actually use it
Apr 05 19:07:58 * rrix brb thaifood
Apr 05 19:08:16 <dtzWill> oh yeah idk.  i think some init stuff there wasn't fully worked out :/--or at least mine was always messed up but i always assumed that was b/c i never bothered to install it proeprly/fresh/etc :)
Apr 05 19:41:39 <bhuey> folks
Apr 05 19:54:52 <Brybry> rrix: fir the landscope/portrait mode thing have them set and unset rotation lock
Apr 05 19:54:57 <Brybry> for*
Apr 05 20:11:48 <rrix> Brybry: That did it, thanks :)
Apr 05 20:17:19 <Brybry> that bug really has surprised me with the number of people who have never used rotation lock before
Apr 05 20:46:02 <tyrok> dtzWill: Sorry - missed your messages earlier.
Apr 05 20:46:37 <tyrok> dtzWill: That link doesn't seem to contain packages that are old enough.  Looking for the ones before the move to Xecutah.
Apr 05 20:47:47 <tyrok> dtzWill: The issues I'm having are as follows: Xsdl crashes when launched due to trying to get an IPv6 address (fixed by modifying the xecutah.sh script to add a flag to it to prevent it from doing that).  Now that I've got that fixed, it's crashing due to a missing PDK symbol, IIRC.
Apr 05 20:48:44 <tyrok> This is on a Palm Pre Plus with webOS 1.4.5.1, if that's any help.
Apr 05 20:50:37 <tyrok> The old xlib/X.Org packages worked great.  Unfortunately, I had to get a replacement phone a while back and didn't think to back up the ipk first, thinking I could just re-download it.
Apr 05 21:12:14 <dwc-> rrix: rotation lock on?
Apr 05 21:12:39 <dwc-> oops, slow.
Apr 05 21:16:12 <rrix> :)
Apr 06 00:03:56 <PuffTheMagic> i watched jersey shore on my touchpad all day today at work via netfix, it was great
Apr 06 00:08:32 <summatusmentis> I've been contemplating picking up a Sprint Nexus S because of ICS on the touchpad
Apr 06 00:09:22 <PuffTheMagic> well i wanted to give android a test run for a while on the TP before I commit to the OS on the phone
Apr 06 00:11:07 <summatusmentis> don't you own an Evo 3D?
Apr 06 00:11:41 <PuffTheMagic> ya
Apr 06 00:11:47 <PuffTheMagic> but im not activating it yet
Apr 06 00:11:51 <summatusmentis> ah
Apr 06 00:11:59 <PuffTheMagic> and new activation and sprint will start charging me 10 more dollars a month
Apr 06 00:12:08 <summatusmentis> indeed
Apr 06 00:13:02 <PuffTheMagic> but my pixi has been pissing me off enough that this could happen soon
Apr 06 00:13:08 <PuffTheMagic> maybe it just needs a doctoring
Apr 06 00:13:09 <PuffTheMagic> idk
Apr 06 00:19:18 <summatusmentis> I'm getting fed up by lack of app support
Apr 06 00:19:31 <summatusmentis> I love webOS, but I want things it won't get
Apr 06 00:23:38 <rrix> You just want hipstaagram
Apr 06 00:24:36 <PuffTheMagic> summatusmentis, i realized i dont love webos, i love cards
Apr 06 00:24:51 <summatusmentis> no, I want shazam/soundhound, a reasonable camera, google music, a good gmail client, and all around app support
Apr 06 00:25:07 <summatusmentis> PuffTheMagic: and synergy, and just type
Apr 06 00:25:12 <summatusmentis> and gestures
Apr 06 00:25:38 <PuffTheMagic> and synergy
Apr 06 00:25:39 <summatusmentis> PuffTheMagic: but even without all of that, there's nothing equivalent to cards on other OSs
Apr 06 00:25:43 <PuffTheMagic> i dont think i use gestures
Apr 06 00:25:45 <PuffTheMagic> well
Apr 06 00:25:47 <PuffTheMagic> sometimes
Apr 06 00:25:52 <PatrickC> summatusmentis: good gmail client? i love the current webos email client
Apr 06 00:26:08 <PuffTheMagic> the webos mail client sucks compared to the gmail app on ICS
Apr 06 00:26:28 <PatrickC> but the email app (not for gmail) on ICS is crap
Apr 06 00:26:36 <PatrickC> it can never connect to my POP3 email account
Apr 06 00:26:52 <summatusmentis> PatrickC: I have an email address that I essentially plug in to my gmail, and I use labels, and threading
Apr 06 00:27:22 <summatusmentis> so I send from an email address in my gmail that I don't log in to
Apr 06 00:27:38 <PatrickC> ah
Apr 06 00:27:45 <PuffTheMagic> pancro, why on earth do you use POP3?
Apr 06 00:28:00 <PatrickC> PuffTheMagic: its what i used for mobileRoundup/webOSroundup
Apr 06 00:28:20 <PatrickC> i still dont see myself leaving webOS for anything anytime soon. the only thing i would leave for is WP7/iOS
Apr 06 00:28:21 <PuffTheMagic> why would they use it
Apr 06 00:28:25 <PatrickC> never.... ever android
Apr 06 00:28:33 <summatusmentis> I see no reason to go to wp7
Apr 06 00:28:36 <PatrickC> PuffTheMagic: because David has had some bad experiences with IMAP...
Apr 06 00:28:40 <PatrickC> summatusmentis: have u used it?
Apr 06 00:28:44 <PatrickC> it is *amazing*
Apr 06 00:28:47 <summatusmentis> PatrickC: played with it
Apr 06 00:28:58 <PatrickC> i find myself using my Lumia more and more every day
Apr 06 00:29:00 <pancro> last time I checked, I counted 4 or 5 back arrows (software and hardware ones) in Androind's email client. Terrible design.
Apr 06 00:29:01 <PuffTheMagic> so before I had a webos phone, i wanted webos because it was built on linux
Apr 06 00:29:10 <PuffTheMagic> ios and wp7 are not
Apr 06 00:29:15 <PuffTheMagic> so the only other choice is android for me
Apr 06 00:29:26 <PuffTheMagic> and i can write games in Kivy using python for it :D
Apr 06 00:29:32 <PatrickC> i came to webos because it was a cleap smartphone
Apr 06 00:29:40 <PatrickC> but stayed for more then that
Apr 06 00:29:43 <PuffTheMagic> clean as in, no apps?
Apr 06 00:29:51 <PatrickC> cheap*
Apr 06 00:30:24 <PatrickC> when i came into this IRC over a year ago, webOS had something that no other platform had. a real community
Apr 06 00:30:45 <PatrickC> and it still has something that resembles that. but no where near as strong as it was then
Apr 06 00:30:53 <PuffTheMagic> summatusmentis, i also have a pdf reader that can do annotations :D
Apr 06 00:30:56 <PuffTheMagic> thank you android
Apr 06 00:31:07 <PuffTheMagic> that alone is reason to not use webos
Apr 06 00:31:44 <PatrickC> PuffTheMagic: u used to be a major supporter of webOS.. what happened? (you seem to be putting webOS down every chance you get)
Apr 06 00:31:53 <PatrickC> arent you still a WOSI member?
Apr 06 00:31:54 <summatusmentis> PuffTheMagic: fake annotations?
Apr 06 00:32:08 <summatusmentis> PuffTheMagic: honesty is not the same thing as putting webOS down
Apr 06 00:32:13 <summatusmentis> err.. PatrickC
Apr 06 00:32:43 <summatusmentis> quite frankly, it sounds to me like PuffTheMagic is trying to convince himself of something he doesn't really want to believe
Apr 06 00:34:14 <PatrickC> well, for me, until iOS/Android/WP7 gets more into the "synnergy" or "multitasking" side of things, i wont be leaving webos for a while
Apr 06 00:34:24 <PatrickC> those are the 2 main things keeping me on webos
Apr 06 00:34:29 <PatrickC> WP7 is close, but not there yet
Apr 06 00:34:45 <summatusmentis> wp7 is so far away from real multitasking
Apr 06 00:34:53 <PatrickC> the UI is there
Apr 06 00:35:05 <PatrickC> just the functionality isnt.. yet (i hope)
Apr 06 00:35:14 <summatusmentis> the functionality is not going to be
Apr 06 00:35:20 <summatusmentis> they build their system like iOS did
Apr 06 00:35:35 <summatusmentis> the framework is intended for apps to not be running in the background unless absolutely necessary
Apr 06 00:35:57 <PatrickC> they use cards to show open apps. but thats all it does. show a screenshot of a frozen app
Apr 06 00:35:57 <rhcp> webs is the only true multi-tasker and possibly Blackberry play books OS
Apr 06 00:36:01 <summatusmentis> android is the closest you're gonna get
Apr 06 00:36:10 <rhcp> android and iOS have two diff ways
Apr 06 00:36:11 <rhcp> one stops
Apr 06 00:36:13 <summatusmentis> PatrickC: they use cards to show suspended apps
Apr 06 00:36:14 <rhcp> one  pauses
Apr 06 00:36:15 <PatrickC> summatusmentis: how? iOS does it well too..
Apr 06 00:36:16 <PatrickC> kinda
Apr 06 00:36:23 <rhcp> both suck
Apr 06 00:36:23 <rhcp> :P
Apr 06 00:36:33 <summatusmentis> no, iOS and WP7 suspend and freeze the apps when you leave them
Apr 06 00:36:35 <PatrickC> rhcp: which is why im not leaving webOS anytime soon :)
Apr 06 00:36:44 <summatusmentis> android lets them keep running for a while, until it decides they can't anymore
Apr 06 00:36:46 <rhcp> summatusmentis Correct
Apr 06 00:36:50 <rhcp> and android stops it
Apr 06 00:36:55 <rhcp> lol
Apr 06 00:37:01 <PatrickC> i went away from webOS to BBOS for a few months..... ill never use BBOS again
Apr 06 00:37:12 <rhcp> the os on the playbook I'm talking about
Apr 06 00:37:15 <rhcp> not normal BB
Apr 06 00:37:17 <summatusmentis> PatrickC: android is closer to true multitasking than any of the others
Apr 06 00:37:18 <PatrickC> but not being on webOS for those few months showed me how much i missed it
Apr 06 00:37:18 <rhcp> its true multi
Apr 06 00:37:25 <summatusmentis> and WP7 will never be true multitasking
Apr 06 00:37:38 <PatrickC> i missed the homebrew community, things like freeTether and wIRC
Apr 06 00:37:55 <PatrickC> simple things like a good twitter client
Apr 06 00:38:03 <PatrickC> or a halfway decent notification system
Apr 06 00:38:08 <rhcp> I need a good webos 4G device
Apr 06 00:38:09 <rhcp> :)
Apr 06 00:38:11 <rhcp> and ill use it
Apr 06 00:38:17 <PatrickC> rhcp: pre3 ;)
Apr 06 00:38:22 <rhcp> vzw?
Apr 06 00:38:26 <PatrickC> yep
Apr 06 00:38:29 <summatusmentis> umm, real 4g
Apr 06 00:38:30 <rhcp> link?
Apr 06 00:38:34 <rhcp> I'm talking LTE
Apr 06 00:38:37 <PatrickC> rhcp: i believe
Apr 06 00:38:45 <rhcp> i don't think so
Apr 06 00:38:47 <PatrickC> i think it is.. lemme check
Apr 06 00:38:52 <rhcp> link :)
Apr 06 00:38:53 <summatusmentis> PatrickC: it's not
Apr 06 00:43:44 <PatrickC> rhcp: i guess i was wrong.. see http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Pre-3-Smartphone-Verizon-3G-New-QWERTY-World-Phone-GSM-SIM-Quad-band-/280741060804?pt=Cell_Phones&amp;hash=item415d78a0c4
Apr 06 00:43:54 <rhcp> see
Apr 06 00:43:59 <PatrickC> i know the att pre3 is (according to the box sitting next to me :) )
Apr 06 00:44:12 <rhcp> i don't have ATT :/
Apr 06 00:44:12 <PatrickC> i assumed the vzw would have been too... heh
Apr 06 00:44:18 <PatrickC> i dont either :/
Apr 06 00:44:20 <rhcp> if i could get onto a an unlimited plan
Apr 06 00:44:21 <PatrickC> im sprint :S
Apr 06 00:44:25 <rhcp> id get on it
Apr 06 00:44:33 <rhcp> Im selling a flashed epic4G flashed to boost
Apr 06 00:44:33 <rhcp> :)
Apr 06 00:44:38 <rhcp> cheap sprint
Apr 06 00:44:39 <rhcp> :P
Apr 06 00:44:47 <PatrickC> lol
Apr 06 00:44:50 <PatrickC> well, im off to dinner
Apr 06 00:44:53 <PatrickC> cya all hah
Apr 06 00:44:54 <rhcp> me too soon
Apr 06 00:44:56 <rhcp> see ya
Apr 06 00:45:49 <summatusmentis> PatrickC: the AT&T pre3 is fake 4G
Apr 06 00:45:54 <summatusmentis> HSPA+ or something
Apr 06 00:46:07 <rhcp> HSPDA+ Still gets your 5mb;s
Apr 06 00:46:08 <rhcp> +
Apr 06 00:46:11 <rhcp> which is fine for me
Apr 06 00:46:12 <rhcp> tbh
Apr 06 00:46:58 <summatusmentis> well, you know, it's not a big deal, but they shouldn't call it 4G
Apr 06 00:47:07 <rhcp> LTE is no more 4G
Apr 06 00:47:10 <rhcp> if you ask me
Apr 06 00:47:15 <rhcp> I used to get 30mb;s
Apr 06 00:47:18 <rhcp> now i get 4-7
Apr 06 00:47:47 <summatusmentis> LTE meets the specifications defined
Apr 06 00:47:59 <rhcp> which is the same as HSPDA+
Apr 06 00:48:00 <rhcp> pretty much
Apr 06 00:48:15 <rhcp> my signal on it. -96 DBM
Apr 06 00:48:21 <rhcp> with 4-8 mb/s down
Apr 06 00:48:29 <rhcp> same as i would get on HSPDA+ and save battery
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Apr 06 03:00:00 2012