**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 27 02:59:58 2012 Jun 27 03:02:46 looks like it just needs preferences->sysUiEnableNextPrevGestures() on Jun 27 03:05:41 aha. here's the code Jun 27 03:06:10 looks like sysUiEnableNextPrevGestures is used on the TouchPad to determine if flick up is enabled at all Jun 27 03:06:49 where is the rubber band code? Jun 27 03:07:20 SystemUiController::handleScreenEdgeFlickGesture() handles the actual system response to the gesture, by determining orientation of the device, and throwing it out if it's not on the "bottom" based on the current orientation Jun 27 03:09:30 then it will kill exhibition -or- if not locked: close dashboard, close system menu, then close universal search -or- close launcher -or- go to card view -or- toggle the launcher Jun 27 03:09:30 aha... Jun 27 03:09:56 lots of fun stuff. Jun 27 03:13:33 so, it already knows the gesture because what transmits the gesture is not smart re: orientation, so the code that processes the gesture handles that .. so, we should be able to seriously reorganize that switch to determine what side the flick is in relation to the orientation, and break out it's response to it into seperate functions Jun 27 03:14:48 so similar to the way it knows the orientation of the TP and handles that rubberband effect. Jun 27 03:15:03 "wheeeeeee" Jun 27 03:15:32 the weeeeeee which also is used to force close apps that like to be persistent Jun 27 03:16:43 and if anyone has located how to switch apps yet? Jun 27 03:18:30 hmm. i think i'll try to avoid calling this function: "slotEnterBrickMode" Jun 27 03:18:48 um...ya Jun 27 03:18:52 EricBlade, doit! Jun 27 03:19:31 heh Jun 27 03:29:47 and there's the code to change apps, if we had some way to emit the "Key_CoreNavi_Previous" and _Next keys Jun 27 03:36:12 hmm. and mouse event handling Jun 27 03:36:25 which is just nulled out Jun 27 03:36:52 i have no idea on how to actually add a pointer to it, but i see how to make clicks work Jun 27 03:37:35 mouse isn't supported on the TP...(well a real mouse) Jun 27 03:37:45 even the kernel has it specifically turned OFF. Jun 27 03:38:39 i don't have a bluetooth mouse to see if that actually reports anything once this is building, but people have reported that they do pair via the bluetooth app Jun 27 03:42:11 right, but the kernel ignores "mice" Jun 27 03:42:34 i wonder if anyone's ever changed the kernel :) Jun 27 03:42:43 (well its probably enabled in uberkernel) Jun 27 03:42:47 I can look @ that. Jun 27 03:43:13 but not today... Jun 27 03:45:24 castle = pre2? Jun 27 03:45:45 pre Jun 27 03:45:51 pre+ iirc too. Jun 27 03:46:02 castle=pre Jun 27 03:46:12 castle+=pre+ Jun 27 03:46:13 oh, i didn't know they had light sensors Jun 27 03:46:51 EricBlade, one good thing would be to fix the Pre2/pre3 issue of going away during a phone call and NEVER coming back. Jun 27 03:47:13 what going away Jun 27 03:47:43 you have no more control of the device...it goes black and then never comes back at all...its BATTERY PULL time every time. Jun 27 03:47:44 and can this be built to go on webos 2? Jun 27 03:48:04 EricBlade, it was never intended to do that...sorry...my misteak Jun 27 03:48:17 hmm. i don't make a lot of phone calls, haven't seen that Jun 27 03:48:42 * ka6sox keeps forgetting this is for TP Jun 27 03:49:35 ka6sox: want me to add mouse support to the Touchpad kernel and test it? Jun 27 03:50:02 hewball, look @ the current uberkernel config and see if its been added. Jun 27 03:50:05 it probably has Jun 27 03:50:17 well, here's an interesting item. in the function that actually launches apps ... "TEMP: only handle WebOS apps for the moment" Jun 27 03:50:45 Xapps! Jun 27 03:50:46 :D Jun 27 03:51:19 ka6sox: not via git for tenderloin it hasnt Jun 27 03:51:43 for topaz? Jun 27 03:51:57 it should be the 2.6.35 kernel for topaz Jun 27 03:52:48 ahh yes it is in that Jun 27 03:53:02 looks like there's some kind of odd support for setting up additional launcher icons for apps that can specify parameters to launch them with .. maybe that's how just type calls things Jun 27 03:53:41 hewball, then EricBlade you can use uberkernel for mouse events (assuming that Luna knows how to parse them. Jun 27 03:53:42 ) Jun 27 03:53:53 we still dont' have hidd Jun 27 03:54:26 well without a bluetooth mouse, i'm just stabbing in the dark there. and there's still no GUI pointer, so i'd be stabbing at it in the dark even if i did Jun 27 03:55:01 i can even use a USB one to test Jun 27 03:55:46 yeah it's definitely some kind of ability to add secondary icons to launcher for an app Jun 27 03:56:09 hewball, assuming that you can get OTG to work right. Jun 27 03:56:25 hmm some of the configs for uberkernel have mouse enabled but not the tenderloin Jun 27 03:57:18 ka6sox: works for usb audio, providing you dont use a crapy chipset that says it needs 500ma instead of like 100ma it uses Jun 27 03:57:29 kk Jun 27 04:01:10 hah. the LED lightbars adjust their brightness depending on time of day Jun 27 04:09:28 on the device debate, it looks like windsor had a keyboard as well, at least according to the deviceinfo Jun 27 04:09:49 not sure if anyone had said that was the one without Jun 27 04:11:10 interesting...whats a windsor? Jun 27 04:11:58 hmm. what's a veer codename? Jun 27 04:12:20 windsor is defined as a slider-keyboard, no center button, swappable battery Jun 27 04:13:42 iiinteresting. Jun 27 04:13:46 never heard of one. Jun 27 04:17:34 there's some sort of "onWhenConnected" setting that will apparently keep the screen from timing out when plugged in Jun 27 04:22:30 makes sense Jun 27 04:22:48 that would be nice to expose somewhere Jun 27 04:24:34 yes in deedy doo. Jun 27 04:28:22 ok catch ya all in the morning Jun 27 04:35:48 niters EricBlade Jun 27 05:50:28 folks Jun 27 05:50:46 bhuey Jun 27 05:50:48 ka6sox: full git repo ? Jun 27 05:51:03 1/2 full (I'm an optimist) Jun 27 05:51:06 * bhuey just came back from dinner arguing with a friend about politics Jun 27 05:51:15 which trees ? Jun 27 05:51:15 over beers I hope. Jun 27 05:51:35 jas...busy...brb Jun 27 05:51:39 we need the full repo for them to accept changes back and forth Jun 27 05:51:45 ok Jun 27 05:51:56 something like that over green tea cookcies Jun 27 05:52:01 cookies Jun 27 05:52:09 tasty but a bit bitter Jun 27 05:52:14 which is how I like'm Jun 27 05:55:41 the first thing you folks should merge is bfs into the TP kernel tree Jun 27 05:55:48 should be trivial Jun 27 05:55:53 it applies without conflicts Jun 27 05:58:17 the next thing you folks should get is the powerd sources for all devices but specifically for the TP Jun 27 05:59:09 I doubt we are gonna see that...its deprecated. Jun 27 05:59:21 which ? Jun 27 05:59:31 powerd Jun 27 05:59:56 in favor of what ? Jun 27 06:00:39 unknown Jun 27 06:00:47 who's decision was this ? Jun 27 06:00:51 because this is brain dead Jun 27 06:01:10 can you get the sources for powerd for TP ? that's a critical problem place for that device Jun 27 06:01:33 yes, I know it is...and right now thats not available. Jun 27 06:01:48 the 2.6.28 kernel for it has an incompete futex implementation as well but that can't be solved until a newer kernel is ported to that device which is likely never Jun 27 06:02:02 can we arm twist them for it ? Jun 27 06:02:07 so rather than beat that horse...I'm choosing to do what I can... Jun 27 06:02:25 the TP is 2.6.35 anyways... Jun 27 06:02:47 so later than the .28 Jun 27 06:03:05 er right sorry was thinking about Pre 3 Jun 27 06:03:14 yes 2.6.35 has problems man Jun 27 06:03:23 futex stuff is incomplet Jun 27 06:03:34 incomplete and was hot wired to getting it to compile Jun 27 06:03:49 bugs with multi-threading will be silent because of it Jun 27 06:03:52 in usersapce Jun 27 06:03:54 userspace Jun 27 06:04:10 bhuey: you know that the WOCE release right now is just LunaSysMgr and nothing else, right? Jun 27 06:04:15 WOCE ? Jun 27 06:04:21 what's that ? Jun 27 06:04:23 webOS Community Edition Jun 27 06:04:32 the code HP released today Jun 27 06:04:48 no, I asked about what they released today and didn't get a complete answer Jun 27 06:04:58 LSM is a good start Jun 27 06:05:06 yup Jun 27 06:05:10 but we need more Jun 27 06:05:13 we are happy... Jun 27 06:05:18 happier Jun 27 06:05:21 never content Jun 27 06:05:29 bhuey, of course...but rome wasnt' built in a day.... Jun 27 06:05:51 neither is my touchpad fort that I've always dream of... Jun 27 06:05:53 what have learned is from an OLD TV programme..."Patience Grasshopper" Jun 27 06:06:03 fuck you, you're racist now Jun 27 06:06:15 :) Jun 27 06:06:23 I'm not...I learned that I needed to be patient to get what I need. Jun 27 06:06:30 and be persistent. Jun 27 06:06:31 white man getting asian on me, OMG Jun 27 06:06:38 he he Jun 27 06:06:41 https://github.com/woce/woce-build Jun 27 06:06:51 does it build yet ? Jun 27 06:06:54 thanks to dtzwill and the team for getting the build infra out! Jun 27 06:06:57 what's LSM got ? Jun 27 06:06:59 yes, it does Jun 27 06:07:01 OMG Jun 27 06:07:04 you serious ? Jun 27 06:07:07 yes Jun 27 06:07:14 what about the browser ? Jun 27 06:07:32 back to previous co-opted statement. Jun 27 06:07:52 about being patietn ? Jun 27 06:07:54 patient ? Jun 27 06:08:09 a webkit upgrade would be a big deal man Jun 27 06:08:20 it'll practically be another device Jun 27 06:09:51 like having a private build machine for special kernels at HP/Palm would be nice since I can make changes without worry about breaking ABI compatibility Jun 27 06:10:00 he he... Jun 27 06:10:02 bhuey: i'm super excited as well :D Jun 27 06:10:05 like having my former machine would be a great help Jun 27 06:11:00 I've got like special goods on it Jun 27 06:48:22 goood mooorning webos Jun 27 06:48:43 indeed. Jun 27 06:48:49 ~ugt Jun 27 06:49:07 so i ve only one question. can i hope now for fantastic new stuff for my pre-? Jun 27 06:49:39 ~ugt is ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html Jun 27 06:49:39 ka6sox: what are you talking about? Jun 27 06:50:22 ~ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html Jun 27 06:50:22 okay, ka6sox Jun 27 06:52:49 maybe hp share the specs for the Pre1 and the Pre2 so that it is possible to bring webos3 in a lite version to this devices Jun 27 06:56:56 PlayX: I wouldn't get my hopes up :/ Jun 27 06:57:50 it's possible, and I'm sure people will make efforts, but the original pre hardware is increasingly aging and accordingly increasingly less appealing for hobby developers to target for a port Jun 27 06:59:09 not to mention that I know of no plans to open-source any components of the OS's built for those devices, which while not necessary certainly would help Jun 27 06:59:34 (first step to making touchpad better is getting things so we can build an exact duplicate of the shipped webos, and go from there) Jun 27 06:59:59 (or as close as possible) Jun 27 07:00:24 ka6sox: indeed, good call. Jun 27 07:00:40 anyway my frank honest answer is that I don't think that will ever happen. Speaking just as little ol' me :) Jun 27 07:01:20 speaking for the project we can't comment or speculate on things that aren't announced as thats just a waste of effort :D Jun 27 07:02:44 * dtzWill nods Jun 27 07:05:50 what is good is that HP released LunaSysMgr code and patches/build support and it builds outside of HP :D Jun 27 07:17:16 ka6sox: baby steps! :) Jun 27 07:17:29 ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3JPa2mvSQ4 lol) Jun 27 07:19:46 dtzWill, indeed Jun 27 07:19:46 :D Jun 27 10:50:02 hey jhojho Jun 27 12:17:05 So the TouchPad will be the initial target, right? Jun 27 12:17:33 I guess if other palm webos devices will follow later depends on motivated people? :) Jun 27 13:12:42 ka6sox, Isn't this the powerd sources we would need? https://github.com/openwebos/powerd Jun 27 14:14:32 egaudet, probably so! Jun 27 14:23:43 someone knows about which build infrastructure HP wants to use for Open webOS? Jun 27 14:23:47 still based on OpenEmbedded? Jun 27 14:23:56 or something other like debian-based? Jun 27 14:32:12 can someone send me the link to the Heise.de article...in German? Jun 27 14:34:30 morphis, have they announced that? Jun 27 14:34:59 ka6sox: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/HP-veroeffentlicht-WebOS-Community-Edition-als-Open-Source-1626567.html Jun 27 14:35:12 ka6sox: no, thats why I am asking Jun 27 14:35:16 morphis, thanks... Jun 27 14:35:27 morphis, I wish I knew... Jun 27 14:35:56 I am watching there efforts since january now but there is nothing already to see in the release components Jun 27 14:36:31 I think from a porting standpoint I'd rather see OE... Jun 27 14:36:51 2 lines and new target :D Jun 27 14:40:39 ka6sox: I created already a meta-webos (https://github.com/morphis/meta-webos) some time ago Jun 27 14:40:51 just for some parts of the openwebos project Jun 27 14:41:21 builds quite fine and is runable on my GTA04 Jun 27 14:41:45 this is oe-core based? Jun 27 14:42:04 and I assume the distro is shr? Jun 27 14:42:51 yes, it's oe-core based but not bound to any distro yet Jun 27 14:45:44 right...but your gta04 is on what distro? Jun 27 14:46:51 it's SHR Jun 27 14:47:06 but you can use any other OE distro for compiling meta-webos Jun 27 14:47:15 so a webos distro is possible too Jun 27 14:48:44 thats the beauty of the layered model...I love it. Jun 27 14:48:55 :) Jun 27 14:49:09 it's not only the layered model Jun 27 14:49:14 well, that worked before the layer model as well :) Jun 27 14:49:20 defining different distro was already possible before oecore Jun 27 14:49:25 stefan_schmidt_w, yup Jun 27 14:49:26 stefan_schmidt_w: :) Jun 27 14:49:29 hi guys Jun 27 14:49:32 hows life? Jun 27 14:49:34 stefan_schmidt_w, how goes school? Jun 27 14:49:41 stefan_schmidt_w, a bit busy... Jun 27 14:49:49 ka6sox: finished cs diploma last year Jun 27 14:49:50 stefan_schmidt_w: life is nice here, still a bit rainy Jun 27 14:50:03 stefan_schmidt_w, excellent! Jun 27 14:50:04 ka6sox: moved to uk now, working for samsung Jun 27 14:50:10 stefan_schmidt_w: how is it in uk? Jun 27 14:50:13 even better... Jun 27 14:50:17 morphis: don't tell me about rain. I life in UK now :) Jun 27 14:50:23 hehe Jun 27 14:51:38 * stefan_schmidt_w is pondering if he should add a pre3 to his mobile collection Jun 27 14:52:27 stefan_schmidt_w: but when you do, don't look behind the scene :) Jun 27 14:53:51 ok, fixed the issues with the IRC logs, you guys can get into them now Jun 27 14:54:11 morphis: why? Jun 27 14:55:54 it's quick-and-dirty MSM stuff Jun 27 14:56:33 ka6sox: btw. what kind of system you're using to compile woce? Jun 27 14:57:11 morphis, Ubuntu 12.04 exclusively Jun 27 14:57:24 cryptk: hm, it fails here to compile for me Jun 27 14:57:33 it is "in flux" Jun 27 14:57:40 yes Jun 27 14:57:40 the git repo is a moving target Jun 27 14:57:45 I know Jun 27 15:00:51 cryptk: it's not thought to access headers from the Ubuntu system, right? Jun 27 15:00:58 cryptk: thanks for fixing irc log Jun 27 15:01:39 pc-world, np Jun 27 15:01:52 morphis, it /shouldn't/ be... I am in infrastructure guy though, not a coder Jun 27 15:01:54 morphis, it uses webos-internals "cross-compile.mk" system Jun 27 15:02:05 ok Jun 27 15:02:14 found in https://github.com/webosinternals/build.git Jun 27 15:02:18 morphis: heh, nothing new in mobile then :) Jun 27 15:02:30 as somehow it's using my system compiler and not the supplied toolchain Jun 27 15:02:57 ok what'd i miss Jun 27 15:02:59 morphis, where is it failing? Jun 27 15:02:59 stefan_schmidt_w: :) Jun 27 15:03:12 ka6sox: compiling qt Jun 27 15:03:50 ka6sox: http://pastie.org/4160476 Jun 27 15:05:59 morphis, can you publish this to the ML so we can get fixed? Jun 27 15:06:07 ka6sox: for sure Jun 27 15:06:09 it worked yesterday... Jun 27 15:06:10 * pc-world just run "make" - now downloading all the stuff Jun 27 15:06:29 build docs bit.ly/MUqVal Jun 27 15:06:42 Thanks to scoutcamper and the team....well done Jun 27 15:06:42 morphis, what build instructions are you following? Jun 27 15:06:49 are they the ones that ka6sox just linked? Jun 27 15:07:07 ka6sox: "WebOS-Ports:No anonymous" Jun 27 15:07:15 hmmm Jun 27 15:07:19 thought they fixed that... Jun 27 15:07:55 cryptk: I justed cloned the repository and tried to build :) Jun 27 15:08:12 but I still have a 12.04 system full of development packages Jun 27 15:08:59 hm, missing ia32-libs and g++-multilib Jun 27 15:09:15 those who are getting no annonymous can you please try again? Jun 27 15:09:17 which solves the problem :) Jun 27 15:09:20 morphis, you only need g++-multilib Jun 27 15:09:21 ppc^^ Jun 27 15:09:26 errr Jun 27 15:09:29 pc-world, ^^ Jun 27 15:09:59 ka6sox: when I register and login, I see the page Jun 27 15:10:15 ka6sox: no ia32-libs? Jun 27 15:10:23 as the Wiki says it's needed Jun 27 15:10:24 pc-world, and logged out? Jun 27 15:10:45 ka6sox, cryptk: it now builds fine Jun 27 15:10:48 scoutcamper: okay, works as anonymous too Jun 27 15:10:53 haha Jun 27 15:10:55 yay! Jun 27 15:10:56 thanks... Jun 27 15:11:53 hmm. it takes longer to restore my VM from a saved image than to boot it o.O Jun 27 15:13:10 EricBlade, has to do with how snapshotting a vhd works Jun 27 15:13:18 have to run, but I added the channel to my list. bbl Jun 27 15:13:20 there is a "coalesce" process that has to take place to roll back Jun 27 15:13:26 bb45mins...bike ride to work Jun 27 15:13:34 scoutcamper: could you move "pcworld" into the group "human"? thx Jun 27 15:13:46 oh, and I forgot the word "please" ^^ Jun 27 15:14:49 I guess the link in the "git clone" link should be https://github.com/woce/woce-build.git, right? Jun 27 15:15:37 *"git clone" command Jun 27 15:16:16 sudo apt-get install ia32-libs g++-multilib -- This will install 251 new packages, 271 MB disk space will be used o.O heh Jun 27 15:19:05 pc-world, yes, should be woce-build Jun 27 15:21:22 pc-world, it has been corrected ;) Jun 27 15:21:38 saw it Jun 27 15:21:52 it had actually already been fixed, it was just cached Jun 27 15:23:12 Isn't there any other way to protect spam (like captchas)? Cause a wiki is used so everybody can write in it, right? Jun 27 15:24:10 haha fuzzy-lana <3 Jun 27 15:24:41 pc-world, what are you talking about? Jun 27 15:24:47 oh whoa just updated Jun 27 15:24:55 those pages were not set like that to stop spam Jun 27 15:25:14 dtzWill, what just updated? Jun 27 15:25:46 cryptk: in the webOS port wiki, you apparently just have write-rights when you get manually moved to a group "human" Jun 27 15:25:54 ahh, that Jun 27 15:26:06 we are working on it, that wiki is pretty new Jun 27 15:26:25 cryptk: oh, my copy of the build instructions said 'fuzzy-lana' as the clone URL, which I assumed pc-world was referring to when he said the git clone URL was wrong. Jun 27 15:26:26 brand new project, there will be "speed bumps" Jun 27 15:26:35 ahh Jun 27 15:26:40 yeah, you needed to refresh ;) Jun 27 15:26:45 and chuckling, although it seems to have been fixed and wiki history says was fixed a while ago. Jun 27 15:26:50 hehe yep sorry :3 Jun 27 15:27:02 should I modify woce-build/support/woce-dl.mk to use my own git fork for LunaSysMgr .. Jun 27 15:28:25 pc-world, we have capatchas enabled on the WOSI wiki and it did not help, so we had to go to this extreme on WOSI and therfore we also went to that extreme here. Jun 27 15:28:29 hm. this is building a whole doctor o.O Jun 27 15:28:32 ? Jun 27 15:28:49 Build Success! Jun 27 15:28:51 EricBlade: I think it's extracting libs and stuff Jun 27 15:29:12 (for successful linking) Jun 27 15:29:15 very nice, good work guys Jun 27 15:29:17 ok, it'd kinda suck to have to doctor every time :D Jun 27 15:29:36 though that was just a guess Jun 27 15:29:57 at least that's the way it was done in the WIDK (WebOS Internals Development Kit), and this one looks kinda similar Jun 27 15:29:57 i expect more instant results when programming, which is why i've stuck with scripting languages for the last couple decades Jun 27 15:30:26 EricBlade: well, with IDEs like Eclipse (for Java) you notice no difference Jun 27 15:49:20 * pc-world still compiling without errors Jun 27 15:49:43 oh, that went out? Jun 27 15:49:46 yay Jun 27 15:51:18 EricBlade: what about doctor? As far as woce-build goes we just use it to extract a rootfs to link against Jun 27 15:51:28 EricBlade: and what's this about a lunasysmgr fork? *already*?! Jun 27 15:51:29 :D Jun 27 15:51:31 build successful Jun 27 15:51:40 WHY ARE THERE NOT MORE FORKS!?!?! Jun 27 15:51:47 well i assumed i'd need my own fork to submit pulls Jun 27 15:52:02 noow... what do i do with it Jun 27 15:52:27 make changes? Jun 27 15:52:41 how do i ship it to a device Jun 27 15:52:43 is there a git repo to look through the source briefly? Jun 27 15:53:09 tmzt: https://github.com/woce Jun 27 15:53:10 woce? sorry just overlooked it Jun 27 15:53:21 EricBlade copy the built binary to touchpad, stop LunaSysMgr, replace binary, start LunaSysMgr Jun 27 15:53:55 I wonder how long this would take to port to android as a native app - it might make a nice launcher Jun 27 15:53:55 EricBlade: halfhalo: if it's just the LunaSysMgr binary, novacom put file:///path/to/LunaSysMgr < ./LunaSysMgr Jun 27 15:54:05 yep, the only reason we don't have a preware package for it yet is because lunasysmgr is what installs packages, so a little hackery is involved :) Jun 27 15:54:21 tmzt: lol, you could rewrite it completely, maybe using a few image file but probably not more Jun 27 15:54:51 *files Jun 27 15:54:53 pc-world: why? I can't see why it wouldn't work with gles Jun 27 15:55:13 hmm. i don't have novacom access from my vm, need to figure that out Jun 27 15:55:15 EricBlade: goes in /usr/bin/LunaSysMgr ; FWIW the stock 3.0.5 LunaSysMgr is in rootfs/armv7/usr/bin/LunaSysMgr should you want/need to revert :) Jun 27 15:55:34 pc-world: you can't copy it over the existing binary like that Jun 27 15:55:43 you have to stop LunaSysMgr first Jun 27 15:55:44 (not without stopping Luna first, halfhalo's right) Jun 27 15:55:59 * halfhalo is always right Jun 27 15:56:33 you should talk to the customer then, you'd get along great Jun 27 15:58:07 and i can't seem to get sharing to work between my VM and my regular system either Jun 27 15:58:27 yeah... had to deal with that earlier Jun 27 15:58:38 until I stabbed vmware in the hfgs Jun 27 15:58:41 I had no idea this was all built with Qt Jun 27 15:58:51 was it statically linked? Jun 27 15:59:38 when i attached the touchpad to the machine, it caused my VM to spike CPU massively even though it's set to lowest priority .. ugh Jun 27 16:04:27 looks like it screwed up something bad, everything is super slow Jun 27 16:04:41 i mean on my computer, not on the touchpad Jun 27 16:04:48 i haven't got to getting it on the touchpad yet Jun 27 16:06:15 I blame linux Jun 27 16:07:16 tmzt: ah, so you would like to run browser pages + cards switcher in Android using parts of lunasysmgr? Jun 27 16:07:31 i'm going to blame it on Chrome Jun 27 16:07:39 yeah! "Build Success! New LunaSysMgr available at: ..." Jun 27 16:07:42 since i closed all the Chrome windows, and still have a dozen Chrome processes Jun 27 16:10:35 can we mod the build script to copy the file somewhere a little closer to ~ Jun 27 16:10:36 hmm, when I kill luna using "killall -9 LunaSysMgr", Luna seems to auto-restart :-/ Jun 27 16:10:53 i think you have to /sbin/stop Jun 27 16:11:01 oooh right I forgot, thx Jun 27 16:11:02 judging by the script that was near it Jun 27 16:11:46 * pc-world starting TP with my own LunaSysMgr Jun 27 16:12:05 lol, now it every time says my PIN was incorrect Jun 27 16:12:16 but hey, a new challenge to fix that! Jun 27 16:13:45 ok, so, where did it stick that binary? Jun 27 16:15:18 gaaah i hate gnome and ubuntu's ui Jun 27 16:15:56 EricBlade: at the end of make it wrote the path to the compile LunaSysMgr to stdout Jun 27 16:16:05 yeah i rebooted my VM since then Jun 27 16:16:28 EricBlade: ./packages/sysmgr/luna-sysmgr/build/armv7-stage/release-topaz/LunaSysMgr Jun 27 16:18:47 so, with the awesome power of Unix, I make a link to that file into my Dropbox folder and wham Jun 27 16:19:24 4.6mb ? Jun 27 16:20:43 When I make a source code change, how do I tell it to recompile just that one specific file? Jun 27 16:20:49 morning Jun 27 16:21:21 hmm. i can't seem to get windows to recognize the usb connection while the VM is open .. Jun 27 16:21:49 EricBlade: --> format drive, install Ubuntu 10.04 Jun 27 16:22:08 (in the host system of course :P) Jun 27 16:22:54 in some build systems, the Makefile recognizes when I've changed a file, and it just recompiles that specific one Jun 27 16:23:06 Is that somehow possible with WebOS Internals' build system? Jun 27 16:24:03 and if not, any way to recompile without a full "make clean"? Jun 27 16:25:10 well, looks like it works. hooray Jun 27 16:26:09 ok, i need to figure out then how to get the usb configured properly on my VM, so I can novacom from the vm .. or figure out how to get it to build in windows Jun 27 16:26:42 i/we will also need to figure out how to get it to build using our own source copies of the main tree Jun 27 16:27:01 EricBlade: you could also use novacom over network/WiFi Jun 27 16:27:33 true, true Jun 27 16:27:57 although my wifi has been extremely spotty lately so i'm not too trusting of that at the moment Jun 27 16:28:53 * pc-world recompiling with (hopefully) PIN check disabled Jun 27 16:29:18 ok, under USB settings on the VM, I have Enable USB Controller, Enable USB 2.0, and i've added HP webOS device to the filters list Jun 27 16:30:30 pc-world: atm the build infra is meant to build releases, isn't super friendly to dev hacking in-place Jun 27 16:30:50 but we should fix that--and as you/myself/others start hacking on it i'm sure the desired use cases will start being supported/worked in Jun 27 16:31:07 and didn't someone say they had novacom/novacomd in the ubuntu repos Jun 27 16:31:08 the build infra is designed for autobuilding... Jun 27 16:31:26 EricBlade, opensource.palm.com? Jun 27 16:31:36 I see... so will there be a completely new build system for "development"? Jun 27 16:31:48 uh.... Jun 27 16:32:01 EricBlade: ka6sox: the .deb files of novacom are on the SDK page Jun 27 16:32:01 pc-world, not for a while! Jun 27 16:32:10 pc-world, kewl Jun 27 16:32:15 pc-world: oh, no no I just mean that the way the build infra is set up Jun 27 16:32:18 ok, that fixed the usb touchpad issue now i can see it Jun 27 16:32:30 ...nevermind. if you want to play, just go into build/src in lunasysmgr dir Jun 27 16:32:31 hack away Jun 27 16:32:43 and rebuildf rom there Jun 27 16:32:50 yeah, that's what I do Jun 27 16:32:52 it's just that the right env vars need to be set, etc, etc Jun 27 16:33:00 and i haven't worked that out neatly or published any instructions Jun 27 16:33:04 in that regard it's not "friendly" Jun 27 16:33:24 I'll see if there's a way to not having to recompile all source files Jun 27 16:33:29 sorry it appears what i said was terribly misleading Jun 27 16:33:38 now how do i do the equivalent of a "disconnect" in linux .. heh Jun 27 16:33:48 dtzWill: I think I got what you said... ^^ Jun 27 16:33:48 i tried umounting the drive, but that didn't kick the touchpad back out of usb mode Jun 27 16:33:51 pc-world: just comment out the part of the build rule that nukes the previous build and configures it again Jun 27 16:34:02 pc-world: then just let it run the appropriate 'make' and it'll only rebuild what's needed Jun 27 16:34:08 again it's possible but clearly hacky atm Jun 27 16:34:24 as long as it works ;) Jun 27 16:35:03 * EricBlade makes his touchpad give the frowny-face usb Jun 27 16:35:50 pc-world: you might want to back up important changes elsewhere, things generally assume the entire build directory can be nuked Jun 27 16:36:01 won't happen if you do what i said, but you know :). JIC Jun 27 16:36:46 pc-world: fwiw i'm presently migrating everything to base off of git repo's Jun 27 16:37:01 so you could just make chance it to your fork, update the tag to use and rebuild Jun 27 16:37:12 still not pretty re:incremental build, but progress Jun 27 16:41:34 pc-world, create a /srv/downloads dir and grant your user access to use it. Jun 27 16:48:50 ok where do we clobber it to prevent a complete rebuild? Jun 27 16:50:30 of? Jun 27 16:50:36 the whole thing Jun 27 16:52:08 nvm didn't need to do a rebuild Jun 27 16:59:23 novacom put doesn't work from my vm Jun 27 17:00:36 or it takes an -extremely- long time .. the VM is flashing USB access but it's taking forever Jun 27 17:06:39 sure we have OSX support...setup a VM of Ubuntu...done! Jun 27 17:06:57 looks like it's not going to go thru Jun 27 17:09:26 and that failed experiment set my LunaSysMgr to 0 bytes Jun 27 17:15:51 EricBlade: fwiw that'll happen if LunaSysMgr is still running when you replace it, I believe Jun 27 17:16:11 (zero-byte len file) Jun 27 17:16:25 dtzWill: yeah i had stopped it first though. novacom put isn't working from my vm, although the other novacom commands do Jun 27 17:16:33 it wouldn't even put the readme file Jun 27 17:17:03 oh, bummer :( Jun 27 17:18:36 i can copy to/from when it's in usb mode, though, i think Jun 27 17:18:42 that works Jun 27 17:18:47 thats what I do Jun 27 17:18:52 * ka6sox too Jun 27 17:19:21 how do i get it out of usb mode? Jun 27 17:19:38 unmount it from the computer Jun 27 17:19:57 umount didn't kick it out Jun 27 17:19:58 on windows I just pull the cord, but linux/osx doesn't like that Jun 27 17:22:56 trying to figure out how to do this automatically Jun 27 17:28:24 ooh, this is possibly dangerous Jun 27 17:28:34 i now have it usb accessible, without the device in usb mode Jun 27 17:28:55 ohhhh Jun 27 17:29:00 funfun Jun 27 17:29:42 in case anyone ever -wants- to do that, put it in usb mode, then: luna-send -n 1 luna://com.palm.storage/diskmode/changed '{"connected": false}' Jun 27 17:30:37 it'll do the frowny face and a fsck and then you're able to use the usb drive while it's otherwise working Jun 27 17:31:02 EricBlade, nice Jun 27 17:31:27 maybe, but i imagine that this is potentially dangerous Jun 27 17:32:47 if i could figure out how to properly kick it out of usb mode .. as well as put it into usb mode via command line.. Jun 27 17:33:56 EricBlade: why not use novacom on your host system? Jun 27 17:34:25 i'm trying to figure out how to automate it from make to install Jun 27 17:35:00 "Safely Remove Drive" from the Ubuntu menu is a big fail Jun 27 17:37:41 hmm. sudo eject /dev/sdb works Jun 27 17:38:00 What's the preferred bugtracker right now? Shall I post an issue on github / https://github.com/woce/LunaSysMgr/issues? Jun 27 17:38:28 pc-world, issues.webos-ports.org please Jun 27 17:39:02 scoutcamper: Do I have to register to see the project(s)? Jun 27 17:39:21 pc-world, more along the lines of i forgot to add projects :P Jun 27 17:39:36 lol Jun 27 17:39:41 bad scoutcamper bad bad... Jun 27 17:40:16 there is one now :) Jun 27 17:40:36 pc-world, yup Jun 27 17:41:23 scoutcamper: You should probably put a link to it into the wiki Jun 27 17:41:40 pc-world, check the contact us page, its there Jun 27 17:41:54 ah okay Jun 27 17:42:00 scoutcamper, put it on the homepage? Jun 27 17:42:03 ok Jun 27 17:42:11 above twitter Jun 27 17:42:12 :D Jun 27 17:43:33 ka6sox, done Jun 27 17:44:01 ok, if anyone knows a command that can be run from command line on the touchpad to start usb mode, i got this Jun 27 17:44:32 EricBlade: on the phones it was Sym+Opt+U... but that won't help you much Jun 27 17:44:52 except you find some old code in LunaSysMgr that defines what to do when that key combination is pressed Jun 27 17:49:00 created the first bug ever :D http://issues.webos-ports.org/issues/1 Jun 27 17:49:53 rather *bug report Jun 27 17:52:14 Any full-featured and good C++ IDE on Linux? Jun 27 17:52:20 https://github.com/woce/woce-build/issues/4 Jun 27 17:52:36 ^^ my make target changes Jun 27 17:53:29 EricBlade: nice! Jun 27 17:53:31 EricBlade, nice Jun 27 18:08:58 scoutcamper|away: again, could you or somebody else please move my wiki account "pc-world" to the group "human" so I can edit wiki articles? Thanks Jun 27 18:09:06 sorry it's "pcworld" Jun 27 18:10:53 pc-world, try now? Jun 27 18:11:16 ka6sox: thank you, works now Jun 27 18:11:19 yw Jun 27 18:12:33 whoa we have a non-github issue tracker Jun 27 18:12:37 whoops, i might be doing this wrong. Jun 27 18:12:38 xD Jun 27 18:12:55 lol Jun 27 18:12:59 dtzWill, don't worry... Jun 27 18:13:02 tsktsktsk Jun 27 18:13:09 heh Jun 27 18:13:55 I like github everything integration O:) Jun 27 18:19:16 16:53 < EricBlade> and chrome is annoying with it constantly unsetting my command line parameters every upgrade.. and it upgrades like every other day Jun 27 18:19:23 stop running beta... or write a chrome wrapper shell script ;) Jun 27 18:29:34 Anyone else have a problem with the centered main page in the wiki? ;) Jun 27 18:30:35 I do... Jun 27 18:31:20 fixed Jun 27 18:33:43 ka6sox: Why can't I access http://webos-ports.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges? - It says "The action you have requested is limited to users in one of the groups: *, Users, hp." Jun 27 18:33:49 apparently "Human" don't have the permission Jun 27 18:35:56 pc-world, can't fix that...gotta wait for scoutcamper|away Jun 27 18:36:05 he fixes this kind of stuff. Jun 27 18:38:43 I think it's really good they started a new wiki for WebOS Ports, cause the WebOS Internals wiki is so outdated and a kind of mess (sadly) Jun 27 18:38:43 Lets hope this one will keep organized Jun 27 18:41:02 pc-world: 08:14 < pc-world> I guess the link in the "git clone" link should be https://github.com/woce/woce-build.git, right? Jun 27 18:41:16 if at all possible, use the git:// instead of the https:// ... it's faster (though not too relevant for this yet) Jun 27 18:41:16 dwc-: yes? Jun 27 18:41:34 dwc-: I was wondering too when I saw the https prefix Jun 27 18:41:50 fixed in the wiki Jun 27 18:42:43 (also if you kill -9 luna, you don't have to stop it... just replace it and then kill it) Jun 27 18:43:23 dwc-: you can't overwrite it while it's running Jun 27 18:43:32 that's why you have to stop it Jun 27 18:43:34 as far as I know...https is RO and git is RW Jun 27 18:43:54 dwc-: and you're right, with the git prefix cloning the repo was like dozens times faster Jun 27 18:44:05 ka6sox: yeah, but only if you have write rights Jun 27 18:44:18 true Jun 27 18:44:33 we are using a Pull Model like the kernel... Jun 27 18:44:43 allows good testing and fixing first. Jun 27 18:44:52 ka6sox: that means? Jun 27 18:45:35 fork, do your thing Jun 27 18:45:38 send a pull request Jun 27 18:46:05 test, fix, evaluated, pull, Profit! Jun 27 18:46:09 ah, right Jun 27 18:46:15 pc-world: moving to git:// sounds good to me Jun 27 18:46:27 dtzWill: already changed the Wiki article Jun 27 18:46:31 why can't you overwrite it while it's running? Jun 27 18:46:38 great :) Jun 27 18:46:45 this isn't windows! Jun 27 18:46:46 ka6sox: I personally don't like this, because then there are so many forks and when you e.g. google for it it will take a while till you find an updated one Jun 27 18:47:02 dwc-: cause... novacom says so :P Jun 27 18:47:22 pc-world, pushing can cause conflicts too... Jun 27 18:47:24 ka6sox: I personally prefer raw text files, attached to a bugtracker Jun 27 18:47:29 fine... Jun 27 18:47:31 *patch files Jun 27 18:47:40 or you can email the patches to the ML as well. Jun 27 18:47:47 ...ML? Jun 27 18:47:50 I'm perfectly happy with that. Jun 27 18:47:53 Mailing List. Jun 27 18:48:02 ah right, there's a mailing list ^^ Jun 27 18:48:06 pc-world: oh... it's novacom's fault... Jun 27 18:48:17 dwc-: no, probably not Jun 27 18:48:23 scp should be able to do it Jun 27 18:48:26 ka6sox: well, I don't like mailing lists because they look so old-fashioned .D Jun 27 18:48:29 * :D Jun 27 18:48:51 pc-world: send a carrier pigeon... Jun 27 18:48:57 ... Jun 27 18:49:17 dwc-: When I do "echo x > /usr/bin/LunaSysMgr" I get "/bin/sh: can't create LunaSysMgr: Text file busy" Jun 27 18:49:29 pc-world: subscribe your @facebook or something and you can get it in your facebook inbox? Jun 27 18:49:37 ka6sox: lol I'll do that Jun 27 18:50:08 dwc-: lol. that would be freaky Jun 27 18:51:10 dwc-: (I executed the command while LunaSysMgr was running, of course) Jun 27 18:51:21 ... Jun 27 18:52:00 well, I'll be darned Jun 27 18:52:12 * dwc- wonders what palm did to do that Jun 27 18:52:46 * dwc- replaces files all the time on his other systems running on ext3 Jun 27 18:52:51 /dev/mapper/store-root on / type ext3 (rw,data=ordered) Jun 27 18:53:17 dwc-, it was running? Jun 27 18:53:42 yes... Jun 27 18:54:12 dwc-: fwiw same behavior on my desktop, thought that was normal Jun 27 18:54:42 huh Jun 27 18:54:55 maybe I'm smoking crack... I swear I used to do that Jun 27 18:55:12 lol Jun 27 18:55:31 oh well, workaround... rm LunaSysMgr ; upload ; kill Jun 27 18:56:15 dwc-: huh, rm LunaSysMgr even worked! Jun 27 18:56:43 now I gotta novacom it over again or it won't boot next time ^^ Jun 27 19:00:24 ok, well, if i can figure out how to rig it up to use my source code from /media/src/LunaSysMgr to build with, then i'm ready to get started Jun 27 19:04:28 Yeah, that's normal behaviour. An "rm" works because you're only unlinking the file, not deleting it (at least not immediately). Jun 27 19:05:38 uhhm... Is that really C++ syntax? "Done:" Jun 27 19:05:45 label/goto ? Jun 27 19:05:55 goto is valid Jun 27 19:06:03 oh, apparently they really made use of goto :o "goto done" Jun 27 19:06:14 there are valid use cases for goto Jun 27 19:06:22 EricBlade: for example? Jun 27 19:07:34 There are lots of places where it's used in the kernel. I remember being chastised for submitting a patch that got rid of a bunch of them once. i can't remember exactly what the reasoning for it was though Jun 27 19:09:03 hmm... goto sounds so Assembler-language-like Jun 27 19:09:48 please... Jun 27 19:09:55 its Fortran/BASIC Jun 27 19:10:07 JMP is Assembly Jun 27 19:12:25 oh, right ^^ Jun 27 19:12:38 I remember using them in Windows batch files o.O Jun 27 19:13:47 it seems they changed the format of /var/luna/data/.passcode, another hash method (now SHA1), that's why I couldn't login anymore Jun 27 19:20:35 i have not managed to locate where it actually builds the lunasysmgr source from o.O Jun 27 19:21:11 EricBlade: it's ./packages/sysmgr/luna-sysmgr/build/src/Src Jun 27 19:21:28 right but i don't see where that's used for building Jun 27 19:22:31 EricBlade: it's in ./packages/sysmgr/luna-sysmgr/Makefile Jun 27 19:22:39 but it compiles to a jump to a label which is why it's used in the kernel (as well as easy for error recovery and things) Jun 27 19:22:40 line 55f Jun 27 19:22:42 *ff Jun 27 19:23:31 * pc-world updated bug#1 http://issues.webos-ports.org/issues/1 Jun 27 19:24:28 There are places goto is valid. Knuth has a good paper that discusses when and where they make sense: http://pplab.snu.ac.kr/courses/adv_pl05/papers/p261-knuth.pdf Jun 27 19:31:29 aha. so it untars the file from that makefile, and then does a patch on it. hmm. not sure how to best make that use my own source tree Jun 27 19:32:55 the make stuff has the ability to pull from git as well Jun 27 19:34:07 goto can often used for cleanup Jun 27 19:34:24 overuse is bad, but it's definitely better than nesting+repeated code in some cases Jun 27 19:34:49 oh look, my irc client wasn't scrolled down all the way Jun 27 19:35:29 (I think it was trying to pretend to be wirc) Jun 27 19:36:15 ok Jun 27 19:36:17 so Jun 27 19:36:26 pin issue Jun 27 19:37:22 if you do a stop lsm, replace, start lsm luna should ask for a new pin Jun 27 19:42:53 Most obvious case is a finite state machine. (For example, nginx is festooned with gotos). Jun 27 19:50:00 hmm. just softlinking my source folder into it doesn't do it Jun 27 19:51:01 halfhalo: is this a new report or did you read what I wrote about this? Jun 27 19:52:04 I have absolutely no idea what you wrote about it Jun 27 19:52:27 But I do know what it will due in such a situation (where it can't find a pin) Jun 27 19:52:48 halfhalo: http://issues.webos-ports.org/issues/1 Jun 27 19:54:07 halfhalo: you can remove the PIN lock with "rm /var/luna/data/.passcode" Jun 27 19:54:15 (if you just want to get into the OS) Jun 27 19:54:17 if you have not messed with the pin in any weird way, when you start up the new luna, it will ask you to enter in a new pin Jun 27 19:54:41 ahhh Jun 27 19:54:43 really? Jun 27 19:55:09 yes Jun 27 19:55:19 * halfhalo has done it multiple times Jun 27 19:55:30 was it the usual lockscreen? Maybe I just didn't read the text over it Jun 27 19:55:53 yup Jun 27 19:56:01 it asks you to enter a new pin twice Jun 27 19:56:15 hmm, then, maybe I didn't get to see it... Jun 27 19:56:39 but it looks almost identical to the regular pin screen Jun 27 19:57:05 but either way, I would have entered my original PIN code and it should be accepted... Jun 27 19:57:13 afterwards Jun 27 19:57:24 unless you put it in wrong Jun 27 19:57:37 don't think so, especially if it asked 2 times Jun 27 19:58:06 no, I mean if you put it in wrong one of the two times, so it asked again Jun 27 19:59:53 hmm... I'll undo my change which made it accept any PIN, and then I'll play with this a bit more Jun 27 20:03:36 Hello Jun 27 20:03:43 hello... :) Jun 27 20:03:54 is there soon a mobile device with webos? Jun 27 20:04:02 no Jun 27 20:04:04 (easy answer) Jun 27 20:04:05 :P Jun 27 20:04:10 will there be a merge with the mer and nemo project? Jun 27 20:04:38 can you compile this browser as default into the operating system: http://dooble.sf.net it is qt c++ Jun 27 20:05:09 https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo Jun 27 20:05:40 pre, pre2, pre+, pixi, pixi+, pre 3, touchpad Jun 27 20:06:37 Veer Jun 27 20:07:20 new luna? pin? Jun 27 20:07:23 and so it begins... Jun 27 20:07:39 it makes no sense, if Harry Potter (HP) does not sell a tablet and a phone with open source Operating System on it Jun 27 20:07:54 this is the marketing thing HP should do, show the miracles Jun 27 20:08:08 that open source is possible on the hardware Jun 27 20:08:11 and users will come Jun 27 20:08:28 large quantities of "users" aren't generally drawn by open source Jun 27 20:08:30 mike123, as they say..you have the source...go forth and be fruitful... Jun 27 20:09:29 we, or better you:. need a hardware manufacturer Jun 27 20:09:34 i gots to go hit the shower and shear off the week of growth on my face. looks like the updated build system is working, and that's good. hopefully by the time i get out of charity work tonight, i'll have figured out a good way to be able to actually modify the source that is being compiled Jun 27 20:09:49 no mike123 *WE* don't have to do it... Jun 27 20:09:57 oh, pc-world has figured out how to do that Jun 27 20:09:57 * dwc- clicks on the dooble, sees a link to a wikipage, and the first thought is that it should have {{notability}} on it Jun 27 20:09:58 We is HP Jun 27 20:10:02 arent you from HP Jun 27 20:10:04 `? Jun 27 20:10:09 um...NO Jun 27 20:10:11 lol Jun 27 20:10:50 yeah the wikipedians are small kings in a kingdom Jun 27 20:11:01 dooble is a cool browser, Jun 27 20:11:12 lots of security features Jun 27 20:11:36 what does this have to do with LunaSysMgr-CE? Jun 27 20:11:49 "Dooble's primary claim to fame is that it's designed to safeguard the privacy of its users. If you look carefully, you won't find many differences with the security offered by other browsers." Jun 27 20:12:00 [OT] Jun 27 20:12:09 it would be cool, ka6, as you seem to be the lead, if you think about a merge with nemo and mer project and second try do develop more towards mobile and third loook for a hanrdwar amnufacturer Jun 27 20:12:16 EricBlade: in ./packages/sysmgr/luna-sysmgr/Makefile, I uncommented "-rm -rf build/armv7-stage" and "mkdir -p build/armv7-stage" Jun 27 20:12:16 When I delete ./packages/sysmgr/luna-sysmgr/build/armv7-stage/.built-0.0.1 and ./packages/sysmgr/luna-sysmgr/build/armv7-stage/release-topaz/LunaSysMgr, and run make from inside /home/pcworld/Downloads/woce-build/woce-woce-build-ee09939/packages/sysmgr/luna-sysmgr, I get a new LunaSysMgr with my modified code Jun 27 20:12:19 and thrid release a device this year Jun 27 20:12:40 * dwc- thinks mike123 lives in a pipe dream Jun 27 20:12:49 again: lol. Jun 27 20:12:51 dwc , who are you? did you evaluated this? Jun 27 20:13:03 I'm me, who are you? Jun 27 20:13:18 did you tested dooble? Jun 27 20:13:27 mike123, OT Jun 27 20:13:31 not sure how you think you can productize a product, and launch it in ... 5 months. Jun 27 20:13:38 but have fun Jun 27 20:13:49 Harry Potter can Jun 27 20:13:55 hah Jun 27 20:13:55 (HP) Jun 27 20:14:01 mike123: nobody in here is Harry Potter! Jun 27 20:14:01 ... history has shown that is ... not true? Jun 27 20:14:11 fine go talk to them...we are NOT them... Jun 27 20:14:17 k Jun 27 20:14:17 (fwiw, mike123 does not speak on behalf of neither mer or nemo projects, i'm here and looking at the good stuff you guys make) Jun 27 20:14:20 okay I'm actually wrong... dkirker is Harry :P Jun 27 20:14:23 thought here is someone from HP Jun 27 20:14:46 nobody here by that name Jun 27 20:14:55 you realize anyone in an irc channel is 99.999% likely to not be anything other than an engineer or developer type, right? Jun 27 20:15:04 * halfhalo is getting weird looks for laughing out loud Jun 27 20:15:15 halfhalo, cuidado. Jun 27 20:15:33 certainly not a product manager or a marketing person or vp who could actually make something happen on the advice of some anon in an irc channel, right? Jun 27 20:15:37 pc-world: ?? Jun 27 20:15:47 mike123: If you want to convince HP to release a webOS device, contact them at nobody@example.com Jun 27 20:15:54 pc-world, you are misteaken Jun 27 20:16:10 dkirker: nm Jun 27 20:16:48 Avada Kedavra! Jun 27 20:16:55 Donald is from openpoplemobl not from HP ? Jun 27 20:17:08 openpopemobl? Jun 27 20:17:10 wrong expelliamus. Jun 27 20:17:12 OpenPopeMobile? Jun 27 20:17:16 ... Jun 27 20:17:17 o_O Jun 27 20:17:18 lol Jun 27 20:17:29 i am so confused Jun 27 20:17:30 lol Jun 27 20:17:41 EricBlade, I'm just rolling with thi. Jun 27 20:17:42 anyway, we need a device manufacturer Jun 27 20:17:42 s Jun 27 20:17:47 making open pope-mobiles is a growth industry nowadays! Jun 27 20:17:47 OT Jun 27 20:17:53 so I should ask the bitch from HP? Jun 27 20:17:57 i mean i'm so confused about how to get it to stop overwriting the source Jun 27 20:17:58 Chris Williams, are you here? xD Jun 27 20:18:00 yea, call her a bitch too while you're at it Jun 27 20:18:12 mike123, please maintain decorum Jun 27 20:18:22 decorum? Jun 27 20:18:27 ok Jun 27 20:18:30 will do Jun 27 20:18:41 EricBlade: run make in the luna-sysmgr directory, not in the root folder Jun 27 20:18:49 seems to mean to be more formal Jun 27 20:18:58 and follow the other instructions I've given (modify Makefile, delete some specific files) Jun 27 20:19:07 ok, we will see. I ask someone for hardware Jun 27 20:19:23 mike123, that is Off Topic for this channel. Jun 27 20:19:54 dont think so, you never heard about QM Jun 27 20:20:12 mike123: that's probably why it's OT Jun 27 20:20:18 you're telling the people in charge of the product what is on topic for their chat? Jun 27 20:22:53 pc-world, does he want to be in woce-build and use the makefile? Jun 27 20:23:24 of course, that is leading, dont tell the people about sailing, tellt them about the vision to visit Amerika. We do not need a channel about wheels, we need one about cars. Jun 27 20:23:40 or is he in /packages/sysmgr/luna-sysmgr/ ? Jun 27 20:23:41 mike123: create one? Jun 27 20:23:49 ka6sox: I don't know where he is... Jun 27 20:23:53 my head hurts... Jun 27 20:23:53 aha Jun 27 20:24:03 ok mail to HP sent, good night Jun 27 20:24:07 mike123, you are free to do so... Jun 27 20:24:07 nite Jun 27 20:24:11 nite Jun 27 20:26:37 * pc-world is very tired, leaving for today... Jun 27 20:27:26 nite pc-world Jun 27 20:27:35 gnight Jun 27 20:30:27 nite mike123...don't let the door hit you in the behind on the way out :D Jun 27 20:31:02 god nacht Jun 27 20:32:00 nite dwc- Jun 27 21:01:58 we need people like mike123 Jun 27 21:02:03 i'm not sure what for Jun 27 21:02:10 but they seem to attract themselves to things like this Jun 27 21:02:12 target practice Jun 27 21:02:13 so we must need them for something Jun 27 21:02:52 my jaw almost dropped when he called meg a bitch in channel. really? Jun 27 21:03:14 (apologies if quoting is bad decorum) Jun 27 21:03:59 certainly, i wouldn't vote for her, unless she ran on a platform that would enhance webOS somehow lol Jun 27 21:04:03 but that's just going too far Jun 27 21:04:53 EricBlade, mine did too... Jun 27 21:28:18 EricBlade, webOS tablets for all schoolchildren? Jun 27 21:31:31 just imagine what effect something like that could have. Jun 27 21:31:49 i hear there's a lot of ipads being used in schools these days Jun 27 21:32:10 yup Jun 27 21:32:21 here in California especially Jun 27 21:34:15 dundundun... Jun 27 21:34:29 heh Jun 27 21:34:57 the schools here are all going broke Jun 27 21:35:10 so are the ones here! Jun 27 21:35:12 same here. Jun 27 21:35:41 maybe it's because they were buying ipads Jun 27 21:35:48 uh huh Jun 27 21:35:54 that and Pensions... Jun 27 21:44:05 ok back in 8-9 hrs Jun 27 21:44:12 bye EricBlade Jun 27 22:07:01 ka6sox, schools have gotten worse there just in terms of class size since I graduated Jun 27 22:13:15 wrea, absolutely Jun 27 22:14:40 I graduated in 2006, with roughly 30-32 in a class. since my brother started in the same high school its 45 per class. Thats ridiculous before considering I dont know how they're fitting them all in one room Jun 27 22:15:33 what area? Jun 27 22:16:47 Martinez Jun 27 22:17:01 Home of the Ghost Fleet... Jun 27 22:17:17 bbiaw...picking up kidlet from "Discovery Camp" Jun 27 22:27:41 i don't want to know hwo many kids are in my highschool's classes now. We were always pretty bad about that... Jun 27 22:36:46 ah, mike123 is an old troll from #webos Jun 27 22:37:59 I expect we'll see Tommy arrive sometime too. Jun 27 22:46:21 folks Jun 27 23:06:49 * bhuey hopes that more components will be released soon Jun 27 23:31:29 found build docs at http://bit.ly/MUqVal thanks to the IRC log, w00t Jun 28 00:22:14 Hi All Jun 28 00:22:41 I've got some questions about the webos-ports project. Jun 28 00:23:16 Specifically, does anyone know the state (if any) of collaboration between the webos-ports project and Phoenix International Communications? Jun 28 00:24:05 Hopefully ta6sox or rwhitby can weigh in here. Jun 28 00:25:37 PIC is making hardware, WebOS Ports is porting working on WebOS Community Edition (at the moment). No overlap there. Jun 28 00:26:59 If PIC makes "well-documented mobile devices with readily available hardware drivers" then Open webOS 1.0 may well be ported to them. Jun 28 00:28:34 I've contacted them to see if there is any overlap in activities. Jun 28 00:28:40 Right, at which point there would be a lot of overlap (assuming that happens as described). Jun 28 00:29:06 Right, but there's a number of months before Open webOS is released. Jun 28 00:29:25 Bit hard to collaborate on porting when the code to be ported is not available yet. Jun 28 00:29:30 I don't think there's a risk of them releasing hardware before Sept. :) Jun 28 00:29:52 Yes Jun 28 00:30:12 I usually have an expectation of a group having a public repo before one can collaborate with them. Jun 28 00:30:27 You're so picky. :) Jun 28 00:30:51 Well they are in the startup phase, its safe to say. Jun 28 00:31:14 I am working with them in that department. Jun 28 00:31:33 Hopefully someone in charge there has read the ESR book. Jun 28 00:31:58 I've read a lot of ESR's stuff, but I'm not in charge. :) Jun 28 00:32:27 I am going to lobby hard to work in concert with other webos groups. We'll see how that goes. Jun 28 00:32:50 As you said on Twitter, the community is too small to duplicate efforts. Jun 28 00:33:18 That and any project that immediately forks at this stage is doomed. Jun 28 00:40:47 Well, part of the motivation for my question was to see where PIC needs to be to collaborate with webos-ports. So item #1 willingness on PIC's part to collaborate. Item #2 git repo with something in it. Jun 28 00:42:34 I see collaboration between the two groups as essential to the success of PIC, and very important if they are to reach their goal of turnkey hardware (as opposed to DIY devices, which I'm fine with, but I wouldn't give one to my wife!). Jun 28 00:43:31 I hope that they share that basic viewpoint, and if not, I'll try to convince them of why it's important. Jun 28 00:45:04 ChairmanTubeAmp, webOS-Ports.org can't comment on Vapourware... Jun 28 00:45:22 Understandable Jun 28 00:45:33 The expression "show me the code" or "show me the hardware" applies. Jun 28 00:46:07 I thought PIC was trying to port to existing hardware Jun 28 00:46:22 our ETA Policy kind of sums that up: bit.ly/MNd7u7 Jun 28 00:46:25 Yes, time will tell what comes of the PIC project, no argument from me there. If it blows up, then too bad. Jun 28 00:46:31 I'm not here to sell PIC. Jun 28 00:47:43 egaudet: I'm not sure that they've solidified their plan of action. That's why I'm here: to learn what I would do if I was in charge of PIC, and then try to nudge them in that direction. Jun 28 00:48:19 ChairmanTubeAmp, Good Luck...I find that Open Source projects are like LOTS of cats...and Herding them can be an exercise in futility. Jun 28 00:48:52 OTOH...the group here is Phenomenal...having lots of fun :D Jun 28 00:49:33 Yes, I've had similar experiences. I'm setting my frustration level fairly low. Should it exceed that then I'll reevaluate my involvement. But that's true of anything worth doing. :) Jun 28 00:49:50 * ka6sox nods Jun 28 00:51:44 I will say this in public about PIC. I'm sure it's been said before: the goal of manufacturing your own hardware seems like a bridge too far. But maybe they know something I don't know. In any event I'm helping them get off the ground in the infrastructure department and we'll see what happens.\\ Jun 28 00:52:43 based on their site they don't seem to have any intentions of doing their own hardware Jun 28 00:53:05 They seem to want to port to other devices and then reach out to hardware manufacturers to strike a deal with to produce webOS ready phones Jun 28 00:53:44 Oh, maybe I misunderstood something on the site. Jun 28 00:54:08 "And, ultimately, it means to increase the selection of devices that webOS can run on—first by porting it to desirable new hardware already available on the market, and eventually over the long term by working with an established manufacturer to introduce a line of custom webOS devices." Jun 28 00:54:50 Oh, I read the long term goal as doing the manufacturing. Jun 28 00:55:39 But you're right, they're not saying that. Jun 28 00:57:38 Ok, I should get to work setting up their collaboration tools. Jun 28 00:57:41 I'm not sure that a 3rd party group like that will have success, I would think for a relationship like that manufacturers would be working with HP Jun 28 00:58:15 but whatever the case may be I hope *someone* succeeds in getting webOS ready phones to market in the future Jun 28 00:58:17 Yes, that particular aspect of their plan seems odd. Jun 28 00:58:41 Yes, me too. If it means that I spend a few hours with the risk of it evaporating, then so be it. Jun 28 01:00:46 But the landscape for smartphone OS is still in a great degree of flux. Windows 8, RIM 10, etc. These things are still shaking out and will be for a year or two. I'm going to resist the urge to speculate wildly here... Jun 28 01:01:43 please do Jun 28 01:01:54 :D Jun 28 01:02:02 (resist) Jun 28 01:02:57 I hope PIC soon puts up something more than forum posts and a web page to show they are serious about porting or designing. Jun 28 01:12:25 rwhitby: I totally agree Jun 28 01:12:46 ka6sox: 11 minutes of pure resistance :) Jun 28 01:13:09 WFM :D Jun 28 01:15:13 Ok guys, time for me to relax. Thanks for the discussion. Hopefully you'll see some progress soon. Jun 28 01:15:47 ChairmanTubeAmp, I hope so...easy to lose momentum. Jun 28 01:16:06 Too true Jun 28 01:16:12 TTFN Jun 28 02:33:52 Hi. Peeps. Anyone make any actual use of their device since installing the new luna.? Jun 28 02:34:16 I'm having terrible keyboard response and I don't know if its related Jun 28 02:37:11 I did..and didn't notice that. Jun 28 02:38:17 not related **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 28 02:59:58 2012