**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 04 02:59:58 2012 Jul 04 03:03:58 apparently everyone who values battery life more than functionality Jul 04 03:16:35 frankly, though, there must be a better way Jul 04 03:19:21 I really think that webOS can do better, for battery time. Just look at all the stuff going on even when you're not using your device Jul 04 03:21:00 although i'm much more familiar with optimizing interpreted language operation than with whole systems, it seems to me that there are some areas that could see huge gains with a little bit of work spent to optimize their operations Jul 04 03:31:36 EricBlade, agreed Jul 04 07:58:02 what exactly is(was?) novacom? I've never understood what it was for Jul 04 07:58:35 and is there no source for it? the download is only a binary afaics Jul 04 08:00:18 ahhh nm, found an old cached copy of a wiki page... Jul 04 08:01:47 it's.... putty? I assume there's no reason to use it in linux? Jul 04 08:04:24 heh, anyone awake in here? Jul 04 08:04:36 one sec Jul 04 08:04:38 at work Jul 04 08:05:47 ok, novacom Jul 04 08:06:02 it allows you to open up a communications tunnel between the device and some other system over the USB connection Jul 04 08:06:19 it isn't SSH, although it is commonly used to get a command line like SSH would Jul 04 08:06:39 cryptk: ok cool... but why not just use ssh then? Jul 04 08:06:40 but you can run any command through novacom and have the output piped through the USB connection to your computer Jul 04 08:07:03 shodan45, because you can send arbitrary things over novacom, you can't do that with SSH Jul 04 08:07:20 with SSH you can run commands on the distant system, but it doesn't create a tunnel like novacom does Jul 04 08:07:41 you can run any command on the phone/tablet and have the results delivered to your PC Jul 04 08:07:43 for example... Jul 04 08:07:51 you can run something like this through novacom Jul 04 08:08:04 find /media/internal -name "*.mp3" -exec cat {} \; Jul 04 08:08:13 and then have the results sent to your PC Jul 04 08:08:19 where you can then pipe them into mplayer Jul 04 08:08:34 at which point you would be playing mp3 files, on your device, using mplayer on your desktop Jul 04 08:08:39 cryptk: pretty sure you can do that or similar with ssh tho? Jul 04 08:08:56 you can, but novacom isn't limited to running commands Jul 04 08:09:00 that is just an example Jul 04 08:09:05 hm ok Jul 04 08:09:13 you can send any arbitrary data over a novacom connection Jul 04 08:09:20 what go's in one side, comes out the other Jul 04 08:09:28 whether they are commands, or a data stream Jul 04 08:09:41 and SSH works over TCP, novacom works over USB Jul 04 08:09:46 not a network connection Jul 04 08:09:47 ahhhh Jul 04 08:09:59 that is another major difference Jul 04 08:09:59 now *that* is an interesting distinction Jul 04 08:10:22 yep, the fact that novacom is USB is likely a larger differentiation than the "piping arbitrary data" one Jul 04 08:11:30 heh I remember doing ethernet over usb on my old sharp zaurus.... wasn't terribly reliable Jul 04 08:12:11 shodan45: that is ages ago. The pxa25x_udc controller used on that hardware was not good at all Jul 04 08:12:13 * shodan45 puts a port of webos to zaurus on his long-term todo list ;) Jul 04 08:12:29 shodan45: And they driver for it neither. All such stuff changed :) Jul 04 08:12:54 oh wow hehe, I just found my old zaurus Jul 04 08:13:24 * shodan45 remembers the good times & the bad with that little guy... Jul 04 08:13:35 hi Jul 04 08:14:28 is there a good comprehensive list of webos related sites/links/projects/irc channels/etc? Jul 04 08:15:09 last I looked this "webos ports" thing didn't exist Jul 04 08:17:02 what's the difference between WOCE Build Environment and webos-internals build environment? Jul 04 08:17:53 Luna-ChannelMGR, webos-internals doesn't have a public build environment Jul 04 08:18:04 we have the WIDK, which makes a build environment Jul 04 08:18:28 but the real answer you are looking for, the WIDK is made for building apps, the WOCE BE is made for building the OS Jul 04 08:20:30 there is also meta-woce layer for openembedded. what is that? Jul 04 08:21:38 LunohoD, that is for further down the road, it isn't really complete AFAIK Jul 04 08:22:08 ok, thanks Jul 04 08:28:17 there are sources to novacom available btw Jul 04 08:28:28 https://github.com/openwebos/novacomd Jul 04 08:28:53 and https://github.com/openwebos/novacom for the client Jul 04 08:41:22 filmor: yeah, found the sources after digging a bit Jul 04 10:47:49 morning all Jul 04 11:39:27 ka6sox: had another thought regarding compiling from nfs- tried using the new 'custom' target to compile just LunaSysMgr from the share, but it threw 'glib-2.0 not found', which is the error i got when compiling in osx. I think we need to jail the NFS share somehow, because it looks like it's trying to compile it using OSX's PATH or some such madness. Jul 04 12:24:15 ka6sox: actually scratch that, it would appear that the custom build isn't working... Jul 04 12:47:30 how to build the luna-sysmgr in the git repo? make in woce-build dir works fine, but I'd like to change something and build it again Jul 04 12:48:13 should I clone the git repo into packages/sysmgr/luna-sysmgr/build/woce/src? Jul 04 12:49:00 oh, just read the "Developer Extras" :) Jul 04 12:49:33 LunohoD: yeah, the dev extras _should_ work Jul 04 12:49:59 i'm having issues with the custom build atm though- it keeps throwing errors about glib-2.0 being missing, but the standard build works fine Jul 04 12:57:57 is it possible to build luna for the palm-emulator? Jul 04 13:13:23 LunohoD: I don't think x86 is a supported platform atm Jul 04 13:14:21 I've been having to test on my device, but the custom build script (did it work for you btw?) only recompiles changed code, so it's pretty fast. Jul 04 13:17:34 ShiftyAxel: it is being built atm Jul 04 13:20:15 done Jul 04 13:20:29 no glib-2.0 issues Jul 04 13:23:44 hmm, what environment are you building in? Jul 04 13:23:54 I'm wondering if my LunaSysMgr build is the problem Jul 04 13:25:23 debian unstable Jul 04 13:28:21 woce-build/staging/armv7/usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so Jul 04 13:33:24 hmm, interesting Jul 04 13:33:40 i guess i'll try custom with the stock LunaSysMgr from Github Jul 04 13:38:39 woot, looks like it was my build breaking in Jul 04 13:38:41 *it Jul 04 13:39:15 ShiftyAxel, if all else fails... blame yourself ;) Jul 04 13:39:45 exactly, it's only the programmer's fault if they can't think up an excuse :D Jul 04 13:41:36 shodan45: novacom also talks to bootie, the bootloader. An ssh server is too large to fit in a bootloader. Jul 04 13:42:48 rwhitby, forgot that part ;) Jul 04 13:43:57 so, funny story, I am an American of Scottish heritage, last night a co-worker asked me "What day is July 4th in Scotland" Jul 04 13:44:03 I replied with "July 4th" Jul 04 13:44:50 that was a good answer Jul 04 13:45:32 my full answer was "July 4th, it's just shifted by a few hours" lol Jul 04 13:45:56 cryptk: scotland did the reverse of america. it joined with england rather than parting from it. Jul 04 13:46:49 (sometime in the 1700's I think) Jul 04 13:47:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Union_1707 Jul 04 13:48:04 c.f. 1776 for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_Day_(United_States) Jul 04 13:48:46 yeppers Jul 04 13:49:05 explains why I am so conflicted Jul 04 13:49:14 half of me wants to join up, the other half wants them to go home, lol Jul 04 13:49:24 rwhitby: interesting... that for firmware flashing, etc? Jul 04 13:49:37 shodan45: boot from memory Jul 04 13:49:59 also handy for extracting kernel logs from memory after a crash Jul 04 13:50:19 shodan45, it is used by the doctor as well to install webOS, but that is handled by something other than the bootloader... I think it may be trenchcoat that does that, but rwhitby will correct me if I am wrong Jul 04 13:50:39 yep, trenchcoat, running in an initramfs booted from memory Jul 04 13:51:16 yep, so the bootloader does come into play, because a reboot is issues over novacom, then novacom is used to memboot trenchcoat using the bootloader, which then installs webOS Jul 04 13:52:25 well, memboot a complete kernel and initramfs, which happens to have trenchcoat in the userspace init Jul 04 13:52:38 semantics, lol Jul 04 13:52:44 * shodan45 needs a dictionary of all the webos names Jul 04 13:53:07 shodan45, we have a wiki full of them ;) Jul 04 13:53:52 * rwhitby bbt Jul 04 13:53:58 nn rwhitby Jul 04 13:55:04 cryptk: webos-ports.org? Jul 04 13:55:11 webos-internals.org Jul 04 13:55:17 ah ok Jul 04 13:55:21 that one has all of the "general webos hacking" info Jul 04 13:55:49 webos-ports is pretty new, and as such lacks content, but is designed for information related to building webos, and putting it on other devices Jul 04 14:00:57 i think i may be making some progress with the build environment Jul 04 14:01:16 decided to cave and just copy the sources from the share before compiling, but it seems to be working rather nicely Jul 04 14:15:13 ShiftyAxel, the BE is brand new, may have "quirks" still Jul 04 14:15:38 it does, i spent most of yesterday rasslin' with it trying to make it compile inside the NFS mount Jul 04 14:16:23 but since that doesn't seem to be viable, i've created a build script that copies LunaSysMgr from the share, compiles, then deletes the original and replaces it Jul 04 14:16:53 working pretty well so far :) Jul 04 14:34:19 morning Jul 04 14:34:23 morning ka6sox Jul 04 14:34:24 morning Jul 04 14:34:35 ka6sox, shouldn't you be cooking or something? Jul 04 14:34:45 it's July 4th in Cali also, lol Jul 04 14:35:36 I need to chop up the Veggies for the Kabobs @ 9am Jul 04 14:35:54 I need Coffee..brb Jul 04 14:39:28 know that feeling Jul 04 14:39:34 let me read the backlog Jul 04 14:39:50 ShiftyAxel, did you speak to rwhitby about the nfs issues? Jul 04 14:40:24 i'm afraid i didn't- he left shortly after i arrived Jul 04 14:40:39 kk Jul 04 14:40:43 i've come up with a solution however Jul 04 14:41:08 i've created a build script that moves the files into the home directory from the share, compiles, then moves them back Jul 04 14:41:40 atm i'm just testing to see if it breaks the custom build, which i think relies on timestamps to determine if files have been changed Jul 04 14:42:21 kk Jul 04 14:42:38 this is good progress... Jul 04 14:42:43 morning LunohoD Jul 04 14:42:53 welcome Jul 04 14:44:18 it is indeed, if mv-ing doesn't succeed then tar-ing will, but i need to figure out exactly what needs to be moved, and whether it's viable to keep woce-build inside the be or move it every time Jul 04 14:45:28 woce-build is the issue? not LSM? Jul 04 14:46:08 ka6sox: hi Jul 04 14:47:40 happy 4th everyone Jul 04 14:47:40 morning amnoth Jul 04 14:47:40 morning amnoth happy 4th! Jul 04 14:48:42 ka6sox: i think the build'll fail if LSM is in the share, but the timestamps got wiped when i did it via copy source -> delete source -> compile -> copy back Jul 04 14:49:20 though i don't think mv-ing woce-build is very viable, since it's massive after compilation Jul 04 14:50:04 ya Jul 04 14:50:38 how about the LSM sources only? Jul 04 14:50:47 make them the NFS share? Jul 04 14:53:25 yeah that's sounding like a good option atm Jul 04 14:53:50 though perhaps the share should be the directory that contains the LSM folder, that way there's somewhere to output the finished binary to Jul 04 14:53:54 LunohoD, finally we can play with some of the things we have wanted to change, fix, extend... Jul 04 14:56:21 but like all babies...we are experiencing "teething pain" Jul 04 14:57:38 what we need right now are some binary rusks Jul 04 15:00:00 reading the Datacentre failure report that AWS put out... Jul 04 15:00:07 its an interesting read. Jul 04 15:00:23 http://aws.amazon.com/message/67457/ Jul 04 15:00:36 morning gambomb Jul 04 15:00:42 how's the weather today? Jul 04 15:01:33 gotta catch a nap before the BBQ later today, later all ;) Jul 04 15:02:17 later cryptk Jul 04 15:03:08 nite cryptk|offline Jul 04 15:03:33 I wish I could play more... Jul 04 15:03:45 doing backups, housecleaning and other "chores" to keep things running. Jul 04 15:07:51 ka6sox: we have success! Jul 04 15:08:34 ShiftyAxel: what are you trying to achieve with nfs? Jul 04 15:08:37 just compiled LSM, edited a file in the host os, recompiled and it only modified what was required Jul 04 15:09:13 LunohoD: The idea is to be able to edit the source in whatever IDE you want in your host OS, then compile the code inside a fully-supported VM environment Jul 04 15:09:31 oh Jul 04 15:09:45 the source is shared between them via NFS, and we were having issues compiling directly in the share Jul 04 15:10:27 so i caved and had it copy them to the guest's home folder, but it seems to be working rather well :D Jul 04 15:10:37 the Build Environment has only what it needs, and not anything else so we don't chase configuration errors. Jul 04 15:10:53 ShiftyAxel, suggestion Jul 04 15:10:57 rsync them Jul 04 15:11:23 turn on -a mode Jul 04 15:11:34 does that preserve metadata? Jul 04 15:11:44 preserves timestamps Jul 04 15:12:15 sweet Jul 04 15:12:21 time to learn how to rsync :D Jul 04 15:12:31 if you feel lucky...you might do -d too (so it clears out things you deleted too.) Jul 04 15:13:17 that will ensure that you have and exact copy of what you did. Jul 04 15:13:24 s/and/an/ Jul 04 15:13:24 ka6sox meant: that will ensure that you have an exact copy of what you did. Jul 04 15:16:15 this sounds good, and less cpu-intensive than mv-ing the whole lot Jul 04 15:16:36 yes, its pretty fast especially for small changes Jul 04 15:16:45 excellent :) Jul 04 15:16:48 and it deals with wholesale changes too. Jul 04 15:17:00 rsync -ad source_dir dest_dir Jul 04 15:17:11 oh gawd, i hate trying to work on linux-y stuff while parents are relentlessly asking benile questions Jul 04 15:17:19 'how do i move a file?' Jul 04 15:17:27 * ShiftyAxel sighs Jul 04 15:17:52 ShiftyAxel, I let my 10yr old be the Tech Support here...(until he gets stumped and then he comes to me) Jul 04 15:18:07 sadly i don't have a 10yr old :( Jul 04 15:18:24 quite Jul 04 15:18:57 be sure to look @ the action of leaving off or adding a / on the destination.. Jul 04 15:19:05 things can get "interesting" if you forget Jul 04 15:19:26 morning m__ Jul 04 15:19:53 good afternoon :-P Jul 04 15:20:02 ~ugt Jul 04 15:20:03 from memory, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html Jul 04 15:20:35 sorry, morning ka6sox Jul 04 15:20:44 its okay... Jul 04 15:20:57 always learning hehe Jul 04 15:21:01 It bugged me for a long time... Jul 04 15:21:02 ya Jul 04 15:21:25 but it makes sense...(in this 24hr always someone up working on stuff world) Jul 04 15:22:54 ka6sox: having issues with rsync, it's spitting out chgrp: operation not permitted errors Jul 04 15:23:18 almost done with backups...but since my wife will end up with extra meat in the veggies I have to cut them up for the kabobs Jul 04 15:23:46 ShiftyAxel, chmod 777 the inside dir Jul 04 15:24:36 the destination? Jul 04 15:24:40 ya Jul 04 15:24:49 oh the -a is what is the issue Jul 04 15:24:50 right Jul 04 15:25:10 jas Jul 04 15:25:20 let me look @ rsync's options Jul 04 15:25:28 okey dokey Jul 04 15:25:48 there might be one that preserves timestamps only...the -a is 'archive' mode which tries to preserve all attributes. Jul 04 15:25:54 (ownership, groups etc) Jul 04 15:26:06 aha Jul 04 15:26:35 i googled it, and a bunch of people had the same error when copying between different FSs. could that be related to what rwhyitby mentioned the other day- network shares only having FAT32… things, can't remember the name Jul 04 15:27:00 its -t Jul 04 15:27:01 s/rwhyitby/rwhyitby Jul 04 15:27:23 gah, my keyboard-fu is not strong today Jul 04 15:27:41 right, i'll give that a go Jul 04 15:27:59 rsync -t --delete Jul 04 15:28:25 that will leave a time correct cleaned up dir Jul 04 15:28:28 in the destination Jul 04 15:32:32 sweet, just setting up a vanilla woce-build and LSM to test Jul 04 15:33:27 oh yeah, is there a way to get postinstall.sh (in the vagrant home dir) to remove itself after running? Jul 04 15:33:39 not a big issue by any means, but it pays to keep a tidy filesystem Jul 04 15:34:54 ShiftyAxel, bigbluehat was telling me we can do that with the vagrantfile Jul 04 15:35:06 excellent Jul 04 15:35:06 add shell commands to it. Jul 04 15:38:46 moar coffee Jul 04 15:39:34 I pulled in the keyboard additions and the carrier string mods...they seemed benign Jul 04 15:39:42 (and useful) Jul 04 15:41:46 useful indeed, i've always wanted to learn how to use a dvorak keyboard Jul 04 15:42:15 rsync -tr --delete seems to have done the trick, just building now Jul 04 15:43:37 EricBlade, ShiftyAxel I got a note back from Sconix...he will join up here as he gets a chance, (he is the author of tweaks) Jul 04 15:44:29 cool, it'll be good to get some plannaging/discussion on the go Jul 04 15:49:54 is the build happening? Jul 04 15:50:01 finished with backups Jul 04 15:54:35 build successful, now i'm just refining the build script a wee bit and getting rid of unneeded commands Jul 04 15:54:44 it's looking mighty purty Jul 04 15:55:35 right, all done Jul 04 15:56:22 ka6sox: i'll put the updated build.sh on github, can you put it into the vagrant box when you've got a minute? Jul 04 16:00:10 ShiftyAxel, put it in the woce-be repo? Jul 04 16:00:15 ShiftyAxel, ya Jul 04 16:01:06 yeah, it's up there now Jul 04 16:03:05 I can add that later...time and Kabobs wait for noone Jul 04 16:19:21 ShiftyAxel, this script should be good for linux as well as OSX? Jul 04 16:19:33 ka6sox: i saw that you pulled in my keyboard fixes, glad you liked them :-) Jul 04 16:19:34 the script is run inside the VM, so it's universal Jul 04 16:20:24 I'm currently doing some more keyboard fixes which will change the way the user choose's keyboard somewhat Jul 04 16:21:08 m__: intriguing, change you say? Jul 04 16:21:23 in the regional settings app you will be presented with a different keyboard languages, and when you use one language you can switch between the different layouts for that specific language Jul 04 16:21:50 the language switch key will change keyboard language when tapped on Jul 04 16:22:13 and on tap-and-hold you will get a "popup" with the different layouts, e.g. qwerty, dvorak Jul 04 16:22:40 the regional settings drop-down will be monstrous if we don't fix it ;-) Jul 04 16:22:50 awesome, that sounds like a more logical way of doing things Jul 04 16:22:56 dinnertime, brb chaps Jul 04 16:23:49 and I'm looking into adding arrow keys... yey Jul 04 16:38:42 m__, yes, thanks...they have been needed for a long time. Jul 04 16:39:19 do we need both up down left right, or just left right? Jul 04 16:39:28 udlr Jul 04 16:39:51 :D Jul 04 16:40:14 yes...i thought so... that's the hard part. finding 4 keys without removing any symbols... Jul 04 16:40:27 but some people will only need LR Jul 04 16:40:29 but I have an idea I have to look into Jul 04 16:40:39 kk...thanks! Jul 04 16:41:00 we also need to sort out how to make esc not be swallowed by Luna as well. Jul 04 16:41:29 esc? there's no escape on the virtual keyboard Jul 04 16:54:01 but there could be ;) Jul 04 16:54:36 ka6sox: shall i modify the wiki entry for the BE, or wait until build.sh is part of the tarball so as to not confuse people? Jul 04 16:55:46 the latter Jul 04 16:56:16 but ya, I'll try to get that sorted later today (in between the Kabobs and Fireworks) Jul 04 17:01:37 happy 4th everybody Jul 04 17:07:47 hi fxspec06_ Jul 04 17:07:56 fxspec06_, thanks for helping baboo Jul 04 17:15:19 doesn't esc pop you out to card view? Jul 04 17:19:43 hey, no problem. i try. Jul 04 17:22:12 I know nothing of JS so its a HUGE help to me (and his mother) Jul 04 17:22:26 RagingMind: It does indeed Jul 04 17:22:57 esc is a pain when you are trying to do things in a terminal Jul 04 17:23:12 so, you'd need a way for an app to tell luna that it wants the esc key? Jul 04 17:23:18 yes Jul 04 17:23:43 you always have the button to get it into card viewe Jul 04 17:23:54 (which is not ESC) Jul 04 17:24:19 as long as I can get into card view from other apps with my bt keyboard Jul 04 17:25:01 we can make it map with different keyboards... Jul 04 17:43:23 bbl...BBQ Jul 04 17:44:48 laters, enjoy! Jul 04 17:45:10 So installed Linux on my laptop again....I must say Ubuntu is ugly. Jul 04 17:45:44 amnoth: 12.04? Jul 04 17:45:46 Where do I get novacom? Jul 04 17:45:50 ShiftyAxel, ya. Jul 04 17:46:20 i kinda like unity, but it has some serious improvement/unjailing to do before I'd consider using it Jul 04 17:46:23 The build instructions say to use it to install to the TouchPad but doesn't mention where to get it. Jul 04 17:46:33 and you can get novacom from the hp dev site, as part of the sdk Jul 04 17:46:37 kk Jul 04 17:46:43 either that or download webOS quick install and it'll do it for you Jul 04 17:49:16 Hmm, they may be easier than HP's out of date docs... Jul 04 17:49:43 and you don't have to install the entire SDK, which is always nice if you don't need it Jul 04 17:52:35 no sun-java6-jre it seems in the repo? Jul 04 17:54:21 looks like it had to be removed due to licensing issues Jul 04 17:54:49 you can either use openjdk or grab java from http://www.java.com/en/download/help/linux_install.xml Jul 04 17:55:19 openjdk will work with all this fine then? Jul 04 17:55:39 Which is "supported" Jul 04 17:57:01 eh, we'll see what openjdk does first. :) Jul 04 17:57:20 most likely, openjdk's often sufficient for most things Jul 04 17:57:27 cool cool Jul 04 17:57:38 it's only when you start getting resource-intensive (minecraft, for instance) that it starts to break down Jul 04 17:58:08 I missed the boat on minecraft...I don't get it.. Jul 04 17:59:38 it was cool for a while, but then it got samey Jul 04 17:59:57 it takes… a certain type, i think, to really commit to building crazy stuff Jul 04 18:00:24 Hehe, well, I'll be back later tonight. Think this laptop is ready for devel. Jul 04 19:37:13 good morning everyone. Jul 04 19:48:21 ShiftyAxel: "The idea is to be able to edit the source in whatever IDE you want in your host OS, then compile the code inside a fully-supported VM environment" .. i've been doing this since the "make custom" was added .. although not with NFS, I don't know why it would act any differently - I mount my host's F:\src\ directory at /media/src in the VM, and I point the custom dir at that dir Jul 04 19:48:48 via virtualbox shares? Jul 04 19:50:16 m__: it would be neat if we could build some sort of API for other non-source devs to patch in new keyboards Jul 04 19:51:13 m__: have you used Splashtop? it mounts a tiny strip above the VKB that adds some extra buttons that aren't available on the regular vkb Jul 04 19:51:56 ShiftyAxel: yes using vb share Jul 04 19:54:22 folks Jul 04 19:58:14 i would expect that it should work via NFS, so long as the nfs mount permissions are correct Jul 04 19:58:22 though i haven't touched NFS since I had a 386 Jul 04 19:59:30 morning bhuey Jul 04 20:00:11 EricBlade: Do you compile directly into the share? I'm sure we had problems with that. I think make threw errors when we tried it. Jul 04 20:00:20 s/into/inside Jul 04 20:00:32 i do Jul 04 20:01:07 hmm, interesting Jul 04 20:01:56 and before the make custom was added, i had removed the build step that rm'd the whole tree, and was using a symlink from build/src to /media/src Jul 04 20:01:56 it's kind of bad that i can't remember what we chose NFS for, it was only the other day o_O Jul 04 20:02:27 only tricky thing that i had was actually getting write access on the share to begin wtih, but i had solved that before lunasysmgr came out Jul 04 20:04:43 I seem to remember we tried symlinking the shared source to the client home folder and compiling in there, but had issues with shares only having fat32..somethingorother. Jul 04 20:04:58 Rod explained it, i have to admit filesystems aren't my strong point Jul 04 20:10:31 * EricBlade shrug i have it working .. use Visual Studio to edit it .. Jul 04 20:15:35 btw i just pushed the double size dashboard to my repo Jul 04 20:15:57 i'll build an actual test app for it here this weekend Jul 04 20:19:23 ooh, double size dashboard? Jul 04 20:19:38 quicklaunch? Jul 04 20:20:16 i think there might be some minor placement issues in it still, but a proper testing app should help me sort that out Jul 04 20:20:22 no for dashboard notifications Jul 04 20:20:53 a problem, is that extending enyo.Dashboard to deal with it has turned out to be rather.. problematic. Jul 04 20:21:28 http://ericbla.de/gvoice-webos/?p=529 Jul 04 20:21:38 EricBlade: no I haven't used Splashtop. Is it a webos app? Jul 04 20:22:04 and yes, it would be neat if they could create their keymaps themself Jul 04 20:22:12 and then push them back to us :-) Jul 04 20:22:20 EricBl Jul 04 20:22:23 gah Jul 04 20:22:39 m__: yes there is a webos splashtop app .. when you bring up the VKB on it, it adds a small strip above the vkb that has things like arrows, esc, windows key, etc Jul 04 20:23:15 EricBlade: nice, do you think it would be possible to impliment a 'drawer' kind of thing for them? Jul 04 20:23:45 so they start at normal size, but can be maximized through a button Jul 04 20:23:54 EricBlade: so you are suggesting to have 5 key rows? Jul 04 20:24:17 m__: i'm not familiar with what all is needed information for a keyboard, but as popular as keyboard enhancement apps are for the other platforms, i think it'd be a great idea to have an accessible way for developers to produce apps that supply key changes Jul 04 20:24:49 m__: that could be an option? Jul 04 20:24:57 EricBlade: I see what you mean...yes it would be nice. Jul 04 20:25:31 I like that idea- all the replacement keyboards for android are cool, but it seems v.fragmented. Being able to download modifications/extensions for the stock one seems a better way to go imo Jul 04 20:25:32 EricBlade: yes 5 rows is an option, but the keyboard gets quite large and takes up lots of screen Jul 04 20:26:05 ShiftyAxel: hmm. might be possible, but would probably need a lot more communication between the JS layer and Luna to do something interactive like that. In the Dashboard case, the window manager only allocates a 52-height area for the window Jul 04 20:26:24 I definitely like the webos keyboard more than any android or ios i've tested. So nice to have number row and that shift changes their meaning Jul 04 20:26:43 m__: are you aware that you can hold down the keyboard-toggle button when it's up, and select a smaller size keyboard? Jul 04 20:27:02 agreed, i can actually touchtype on the webOS keyboard. never been able to do that on iOS or droid. Jul 04 20:27:14 oh damn. did anybody else see that the images for the windsornot have been removed Jul 04 20:27:15 EricBlade: of course ;-) but then the keys gets smaller and that's not cool Jul 04 20:27:27 =O Jul 04 20:27:34 * fxspec06 what could this mean Jul 04 20:27:35 morning fxspec06 Jul 04 20:27:45 good afternoon it is ;) Jul 04 20:27:57 EricBlade: what I mean is that someone with large fingers might have problems with the smaller sizes Jul 04 20:28:00 fxspec06: that the guys that made them were probably asked to take them down, and have been asking everyone else to take them down Jul 04 20:28:15 i saved one image Jul 04 20:29:20 i wonder if it means anything else, maybe we could see it one day on a shelf Jul 04 20:29:30 * fxspec06 loves speculation Jul 04 20:29:35 fxspec06: really? interesting, seems like a bit of a pointless move on HP's part if they don't intend to ever do anything with it... Jul 04 20:29:37 fxspec06: maybe if you go to Palm HQ Jul 04 20:29:40 we'll see how the keyboard turns out, I'm busy fixing the stuff I mentioned earlier right now. Anyway, got to get to bed, early morning tomorrow Jul 04 20:29:43 conspiracy! Jul 04 20:29:51 goodnight Jul 04 20:29:56 ShiftyAxel: exactly Jul 04 20:30:05 nn m__ Jul 04 20:30:15 they never took down the pictures of the TP go. then again, times were different back then Jul 04 20:30:27 they could just be protecting copyright Jul 04 20:31:45 also entirely possible Jul 04 20:32:27 I guess the TP Go is just a smaller (and nicer…) version of the TP, and a few members of the community have units so there's not much point taking images down, user photos would just come back up Jul 04 20:33:02 though i'd sure like to live in hope of the WindsorNot someday being in my grubby, sweaty little webOS fan-hands :P Jul 04 20:37:54 someone sent me a private the other day saying that they had held one of those Jul 04 20:38:13 so it wasn't just a mockup Jul 04 21:22:31 a twitter user informs me that he "can't install ipks attached to emails anymore" since installing new luna Jul 04 21:49:58 hm, perhaps a filetype association issue? Jul 04 22:10:33 I've posted some updates for the PDK bug hunting Jul 04 22:10:37 still not getting very far :-| Jul 04 22:15:30 EricBlade: He should probably try to relaunch Preware to re-associate the default app association? Jul 04 23:24:22 hello there, Jul 04 23:24:50 in the sysmgr tree, I see some stuff that makes me think it's possible to run standalone on x86, anyone got to try it out ? Jul 04 23:25:29 no success yet i'm afraid Jul 04 23:25:47 the only supported platform/build atm is Ubuntu 12.04 building an armv7 binary Jul 04 23:25:59 doesn't mean it's not possible, it just isn't right now Jul 04 23:26:17 though it sure would be nice to test modifications on the desktop before transferring to the TP Jul 04 23:53:45 woot, new pull request Jul 04 23:54:09 super-simple patch, i reduced the minimum brightness you can set via the device menu to 1, much nicer for reading in the dark Jul 04 23:57:47 anyway, i'm off to bed. night all. Jul 05 00:05:52 Wonder if I'm receiving messages here Jul 05 00:28:32 eblade-synergy, yes Jul 05 00:29:57 Yay. I think the other day I had tried my irc and I was clearly sending. But not receiving Jul 05 00:30:53 excellent Jul 05 00:31:03 missed shifty Jul 05 00:31:17 I'll have to look @ the pull request. Jul 05 01:13:49 * eblade-synergy ties fxspec into the channel Jul 05 01:14:33 lol, sorry i keep rebooting Jul 05 01:15:05