**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 11 02:59:58 2012
Aug 11 03:05:50 <k4ever> hi all
Aug 11 03:07:01 <LarrySteeze|Away> yo
Aug 11 03:09:20 <k4ever> i'm on my ubuntu desktop, following the instructions from http://webos-ports.org/wiki/WOCE_build_Instructions.  what do i need to edit to get some of the cool new features (side swiping, etc)  for webos ce?
Aug 11 03:10:50 <scoutcamper> k4ever, that is a loaded question. I can say that will become much easier "at some point" but for now it it a mater of being a github expert(read:crazy person)
Aug 11 03:12:24 <LarrySteeze|Away> heh. I think that's the best answer we can give at this point
Aug 11 03:12:35 <LarrySteeze|Away> k4ever, are you a dev at all?
Aug 11 03:13:08 <k4ever> no, just a very adventurous linux user. ..
Aug 11 03:13:14 <LarrySteeze|Away> understood
Aug 11 03:14:09 <LarrySteeze|Away> I think it's best to hang out for a little bit and watch our twitter feed for when the first official release comes out
Aug 11 03:14:19 <LarrySteeze|Away> whenever that may be
Aug 11 04:20:04 <ka6sox-away> LarrySteeze|Away, what? use a guaranteed to break your device package?
Aug 11 04:21:52 <LarrySteeze|Away> ka6sox-away: huh?
Aug 11 04:22:57 <ka6sox-away> alpha, bleeding edge OMG gonna die?
Aug 11 04:23:13 <ka6sox-away> EricBlade, you about?
Aug 11 04:24:24 <ka6sox-away> I think we need 1 more small tweak before we can release
Aug 11 04:24:55 <ka6sox-away> we need a version # somewhere on the system that is visible to the user so we can know what they are using
Aug 11 04:25:07 <LarrySteeze|Away> I believe EricBlade is in my timezone, so he's probably sleeping
Aug 11 04:25:16 <ka6sox-away> smart man
Aug 11 04:25:33 <scoutcamper> ~alpha is GUARENTEED to break your device and murder your family. dont use this unless you know what you are doing.
Aug 11 04:25:33 <WoceBot> okay, scoutcamper
Aug 11 04:25:42 <EricBlade-TP> hmm? sleeping? what's that
Aug 11 04:25:50 <LarrySteeze|Away> eh? guess not
Aug 11 04:26:14 <ka6sox-away> he he
Aug 11 04:26:22 <EricBlade-TP> I need to be able to install it too :-P
Aug 11 04:26:40 <ka6sox-away> that would be something we can probably arrainge.
Aug 11 04:27:31 <EricBlade-TP> last one I tried didn't install anything at all
Aug 11 04:27:44 <ka6sox-away> this one should work better...
Aug 11 04:27:48 <ka6sox-away> (hopefully)
Aug 11 04:28:27 <LarrySteeze|Away> ka6sox-away, please refer to ~alpha
Aug 11 04:28:50 <EricBlade-TP> so what do you think for a version
Aug 11 04:28:55 <ka6sox-away> 3.0.5
Aug 11 04:29:04 <ka6sox-away> that is the "recovery" version
Aug 11 04:29:12 <ka6sox-away> 4.0.0 will have all the patches
Aug 11 04:29:20 <ka6sox-away> that is coming along too....
Aug 11 04:29:25 <ka6sox-away> hopefully right behind 3.0.5
Aug 11 04:33:20 <EricBlade-TP> I mean the indicator
Aug 11 04:34:11 <EricBlade-TP> also, will open webOS identify as 4, or something else? not that this is the whole os... but.. don't want to create any more confusion
Aug 11 04:35:45 <ka6sox-away> somewhere on the statusbar or visible without having to push a button I'd like to be able to see a x.y.z value
Aug 11 04:35:53 <ka6sox-away> that is set by the package
Aug 11 04:36:42 <EricBlade-TP> hmm. we could probably draw something on screen, like in card view?
Aug 11 04:37:20 <ka6sox-away> since they are alphas I was hoping that you could just see it without doing any gestures or such
Aug 11 04:37:29 <ka6sox-away> we can remove it later (or move it someplace)
Aug 11 04:37:44 <ka6sox-away> like to the left of scroll lock?
Aug 11 04:38:05 <LarrySteeze|Away> what about something in the Just Type area?
Aug 11 04:38:35 <ka6sox-away> like the "make it so patch"?
Aug 11 04:38:36 <ka6sox-away> ya
Aug 11 04:38:45 <LarrySteeze|Away> yes
Aug 11 04:39:02 <ka6sox-away> put a value in there?
Aug 11 04:39:40 <LarrySteeze|Away> something like "WOCE 3.0.5 can make it happen..."?
Aug 11 04:39:54 <ka6sox-away> woce3.0.5 baby
Aug 11 04:40:04 <ka6sox-away> or woce4.0.0-alpha
Aug 11 04:41:36 <ka6sox-away> EricBlade-TP, what do you think?
Aug 11 04:59:09 <ka6sox-away> what I'm afraid of is an unresponsive TP with CE on it and no way to to tell what is on it.
Aug 11 04:59:37 * scoutcamper has done that several times :P
Aug 11 05:01:22 <EricBlade-TP> well I'm from the game business were it traditional to put a small label on the first screen.. and the first screen you see is card view
Aug 11 05:01:38 <EricBlade-TP> *where it's
Aug 11 05:01:59 <ka6sox-away> since this is the UI (Luna) we need to do that inn its "card"
Aug 11 05:04:46 <EricBlade-TP> another idea, isthat card view, launcher view, and just type do not have app menus. we could attach something to one of those maybe.
Aug 11 05:05:52 <ka6sox-away> excellent
Aug 11 05:06:11 <ka6sox-away> cardview is the main screen you see even if nothign is running?
Aug 11 05:06:23 <ka6sox-away> (sorry I am not sure if that is correct)
Aug 11 05:06:30 <EricBlade-TP> pretty sure that's card view
Aug 11 05:06:53 <ka6sox-away> okay then yes, in cardview I'd love it to be on the statusbar next to rotationlock.
Aug 11 05:07:20 <ka6sox-away> like shifty's just search mod for statusbar
Aug 11 05:07:28 <ka6sox-away> butinstead a version #
Aug 11 05:07:42 <ka6sox-away> just splatted up there in this alpha
Aug 11 05:07:57 <ka6sox-away> Q/D indication of what they are running
Aug 11 05:08:02 <ka6sox-away> nothing = Stock
Aug 11 05:08:08 <ka6sox-away> 3.0.5 = recovery
Aug 11 05:08:15 <ka6sox-away> 4.0.0 = patched.
Aug 11 05:11:06 <ka6sox-away> doesn't have to be there....but somewhere that its visible easily to tell...
Aug 11 05:11:25 <EricBlade-TP> I'm not sure if the status bar can be made aware of what view its in, but I bet we can figure out a way to do that
Aug 11 05:11:54 <ka6sox-away> :D
Aug 11 05:12:12 <ka6sox-away> thanks...this will make me feel we can get better feedback from testers for alpha
Aug 11 05:12:22 <ka6sox-away> *knowing* what they are running.
Aug 11 05:19:18 <EricBlade-TP> shifty could probably do that in a few seconds since he knows right where that might be.. icould take a look at it after I wake up again next
Aug 11 05:19:46 <ka6sox-away> np...at your convience...
Aug 11 05:20:05 <ka6sox-away> I am working on autobuilder setup for this now...
Aug 11 07:44:33 <rrix> ~ugt
Aug 11 07:44:33 <WoceBot> hmm... ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
Aug 11 13:18:20 <ShiftyAxel> morning all
Aug 11 13:36:10 * ka6sox stumbles in with 1 eye open
Aug 11 13:57:36 <ShiftyAxel> morning EricBlade
Aug 11 15:18:16 <fxspec06> how's everyone doing
Aug 11 15:23:07 <ShiftyAxel> hungover
Aug 11 16:00:25 <RagingMind> good... I'm not the only one
Aug 11 16:04:25 <ShiftyAxel> \o/
Aug 11 16:04:37 <ShiftyAxel> late night co-op super mario bros marathons ftw
Aug 11 16:08:09 <fxspec06> luigi > mario
Aug 11 16:09:00 <LarrySteeze|Work> ShiftyAxel: we missed you last night!
Aug 11 16:09:16 <LarrySteeze|Work> ShiftyAxel: we made a lot of progress
Aug 11 16:09:53 <ShiftyAxel> hey LarrySteeze
Aug 11 16:10:03 <ShiftyAxel> yeah, I read the logs. good work guys! :)
Aug 11 16:10:27 <ShiftyAxel> fxspec06: agreed, luigi's awesome
Aug 11 16:10:44 <fxspec06> one of these days, before my fall semester, i'm gonna DL all this webos ce stuff and see if i can make any sense of it
Aug 11 16:12:02 <fxspec06> idk what kind of system you guys got in place if you've got a goal system but i'll probably be looking for ways to contribute.
Aug 11 16:13:08 <scoutcamper> my fall semester fires up in 2 weeks :/
Aug 11 16:13:55 <fxspec06> my summer finals are tuesday, "finally"
Aug 11 16:21:34 <LarrySteeze|Work> good morning ka6sox-farfarawa
Aug 11 16:23:34 <ka6sox-farfarawa> morning LarrySteeze|Work
Aug 11 16:30:59 <ka6sox-farfarawa> is help.palm.com offline?
Aug 11 16:40:14 <ShiftyAxel> yeah
Aug 11 17:16:01 <GodGinrai> so is developer.palm.com
Aug 11 17:16:14 <GodGinrai> does this kind of thing happen often?
Aug 11 17:19:26 <ShiftyAxel> GodGinrai, not really, though there has been another, similar issue recently
Aug 11 17:19:31 <ShiftyAxel> lasted a few hours
Aug 11 17:21:10 <GodGinrai> ok, I was just worried because it was just up last night, and I was going to use it to familiarize myself w/ webOS development today
Aug 11 17:22:31 <ShiftyAxel> I can link you a tar of my downloads folder if you like?
Aug 11 17:22:45 <ShiftyAxel> just untar it in there and it'll start compiling :)
Aug 11 17:25:08 <GodGinrai> when I meant webOS development, I meant apps for webOS.  I an to eventually try to help you guys, but I want to tackle things one at a time
Aug 11 17:25:24 <GodGinrai> *want to eventually
Aug 11 17:27:13 <GodGinrai> besides, I don't have a touchpad for testing the CE stuff, anyways
Aug 11 17:28:20 <ShiftyAxel> ah, fair enough
Aug 11 17:28:32 <ShiftyAxel> if you want to start app dev, i'd go to www.enyojs.com
Aug 11 17:28:50 <ShiftyAxel> the bootplate template on github will give you an easy-to-use build environment for it
Aug 11 17:28:58 <ShiftyAxel> and there's ample documentation
Aug 11 17:29:04 <GodGinrai> yea, I've been looking at that
Aug 11 17:29:20 <ShiftyAxel> <3 enyo2
Aug 11 17:29:30 <ShiftyAxel> though i still have some learning to do
Aug 11 17:29:36 <GodGinrai> Is there any way to make Enyo look like Mojo?  I like the visual style of Mojo better :P
Aug 11 17:33:56 * ShiftyAxel cringes
Aug 11 17:34:15 <ShiftyAxel> Mojo looked neat, but Enyo is so so much better internally
Aug 11 17:34:35 <ShiftyAxel> it's doable, but it'd require manually recreating the Mojo types
Aug 11 17:34:41 <GodGinrai> that's what I heard.
Aug 11 17:34:43 <GodGinrai> ah
Aug 11 17:34:50 <ShiftyAxel> alternately you could reskin existing enyo2 types into Mojo ones
Aug 11 17:35:10 <ShiftyAxel> just grab the Mojo graphics from a device or the doctor, and write away
Aug 11 17:35:40 <GodGinrai> are Enyo types easy to style?
Aug 11 17:35:50 <ShiftyAxel> yeah, it's just CSS styling
Aug 11 17:36:03 <ShiftyAxel> and a bunch of other enyo stuff, gives you lots of control
Aug 11 17:36:15 <ShiftyAxel> alternately (and probably more legal) is to reskin existing components using the filepaths of the mojo stuff on-device
Aug 11 17:36:48 <GodGinrai> ok, interesting
Aug 11 17:36:52 <ShiftyAxel> that would restrict it to running on webOS devices, but Mojo isn't open-sourced, so we can't publish any part of is inside  of an app
Aug 11 17:37:03 <GodGinrai> yea
Aug 11 17:37:20 <ShiftyAxel> …that's actually a pretty neat idea
Aug 11 17:37:34 <GodGinrai> Indeed
Aug 11 17:37:37 <GodGinrai> :)
Aug 11 17:37:45 <ShiftyAxel> you'd be able to recreate the push/pop transitions using my MoreArrangers addon and an enyo.Arranger
Aug 11 17:38:17 <ShiftyAxel> and you'd have the added benefit of them being finger-tracking instead of just a triggered animation
Aug 11 17:41:40 <GodGinrai> How do filesystem operations work w/ Enyo? (especially if you want it to work on android as well?)
Aug 11 17:43:28 <ShiftyAxel> unsure
Aug 11 17:43:45 <ShiftyAxel> you can r/w to localStorage, but i'm guessing that's not going to be sufficient
Aug 11 17:44:04 <ShiftyAxel> I think using phonegap would be a good plan if you're looking to distribute it to multiple platforms
Aug 11 17:44:25 <GodGinrai> lol yea, it won't.  The app I'll be writing will be reading light novels
Aug 11 17:45:00 <ShiftyAxel> you can package it up using that, and it'll produce packages for all the mobile platforms
Aug 11 17:45:19 <ShiftyAxel> it also has a set of APIs that abstract out the platform specific stuff, i think it can do file ops
Aug 11 17:45:55 <ShiftyAxel> GodGinrai: would you be up for doing a Mojo UI for enyo on github?
Aug 11 17:46:16 <ShiftyAxel> I'm temporarily between tasks currently so I figure I might as well do something
Aug 11 17:46:29 <LarrySteeze> fxspec06: we're always down for more contributors
Aug 11 17:46:53 <LarrySteeze> fxspec06: and with your background, I don't think you'll have a hard time making sense of it. Plus we're always here to help out
Aug 11 17:48:02 <GodGinrai> Yea, that sounds interesting.  however, I'm not sure how much help I'll be since I'm new to webOS ;)
Aug 11 17:49:48 <GodGinrai> But I'm definitely willing to help, ShiftyAxel
Aug 11 17:50:07 <LarrySteeze> GodGinrai: curious, do you have a dev background?
Aug 11 17:50:21 <GodGinrai> yes, I do
Aug 11 17:50:25 <LarrySteeze> awesome
Aug 11 17:50:34 <LarrySteeze> webos will be very welcoming to you
Aug 11 17:50:53 <ShiftyAxel> it sure will
Aug 11 17:50:54 <LarrySteeze> you may be "new" to webos, but you'll quickly find that you're not (for the most part)
Aug 11 17:51:18 <ShiftyAxel> GodGinrai: do you have a github account? I just pushed a repo to http://www.github.com/ShiftyAxel/enjo
Aug 11 17:51:24 <GodGinrai> that's what I'm hoping. :)
Aug 11 17:51:31 <ShiftyAxel> you can have push access if you like
Aug 11 17:51:43 <GodGinrai> yea, I have a within account
Aug 11 17:52:11 <GodGinrai> wow
Aug 11 17:52:16 <GodGinrai> autocorrect
Aug 11 17:52:18 <LarrySteeze> ShiftyAxel: I just saw that on github
Aug 11 17:52:22 <GodGinrai> github
Aug 11 17:52:33 <ShiftyAxel> who wants in?
Aug 11 17:52:37 <LarrySteeze> ShiftyAxel: for a second, I thought you misspelled :P
Aug 11 17:52:55 <ShiftyAxel> thought that would happen ;)
Aug 11 17:53:53 <GodGinrai> my account is just GodGinrai on github, ShiftyAxel
Aug 11 17:58:09 <ShiftyAxel> enjoy push access!
Aug 11 17:58:27 <GodGinrai> ty
Aug 11 19:03:36 * HaDAk|work looks around
Aug 11 20:23:01 <GodGinrai> Hey ShiftyAxel, is there any resource I can get the palm SDK, emulator, etc. from while developer.palm.com is down?
Aug 11 20:23:33 <ShiftyAxel> GodGinrai: only stuff that would be on a device's rootfs, nothing that developer.palm.com provides I don't think
Aug 11 20:23:34 <ShiftyAxel> ]
Aug 11 20:24:12 <GodGinrai> damn :/  I wanted to get the SDK and all set up on my computer today
Aug 11 20:24:37 <scoutcamper> GodGinrai, i would guess that download.hp.palm.com is a different server than developer.palm.com
Aug 11 20:25:13 <GodGinrai> that's down, too
Aug 11 20:25:51 <ShiftyAxel> perhaps we should all tweet at HP about it?
Aug 11 20:26:04 <ShiftyAxel> let them know that the lack of fixing makes development difficult
Aug 11 20:27:33 <GodGinrai> which account?
Aug 11 20:27:37 <scoutcamper> ShiftyAxel, it seems their servers are back up to me
Aug 11 20:27:52 <GodGinrai> o.o
Aug 11 20:27:54 <scoutcamper> http://downloads.help.palm.com/webosdoctor/rom/touchpad/p305rod01122012/wd305wifi/webosdoctorp305hstnhwifi.jar works for me
Aug 11 20:28:05 <ShiftyAxel> oh yes, excellent
Aug 11 20:28:11 <ShiftyAxel> time to get the BE going again
Aug 11 20:28:41 <GodGinrai> ok, but is there any resource that has links to the SDK, etc?
Aug 11 20:29:08 <scoutcamper> ShiftyAxel, https://developer.palm.com/content/resources/develop/sdk_pdk_download.html
Aug 11 20:30:13 <GodGinrai> ah, the whole thing is back up
Aug 11 20:30:15 <GodGinrai> yay
Aug 11 20:30:33 <GodGinrai> it was literally all down just 5 min ago
Aug 11 20:33:52 <GodGinrai> hey, is wIRC not able to keep a connection while you make a phone call?
Aug 11 20:34:31 <scoutcamper> on AT&T. or wifi. yes
Aug 11 20:35:16 <GodGinrai> so just not on 3G?
Aug 11 20:35:21 <LarrySteeze> which 3g?
Aug 11 20:35:23 <LarrySteeze> what carrier?
Aug 11 20:35:39 <scoutcamper> verizon kills 3g durring phone calls, att does not.
Aug 11 20:36:08 <LarrySteeze> scoutcamper means CDMA kills 3G, GSM does not
Aug 11 20:36:13 <GodGinrai> Verizon
Aug 11 20:36:17 <GodGinrai> ah
Aug 11 20:36:20 <scoutcamper> what LarrySteeze said
Aug 11 20:36:29 <GodGinrai> did not know that
Aug 11 20:36:34 * scoutcamper should try that on LTE.
Aug 11 20:36:51 <LarrySteeze> LTE should be fine
Aug 11 20:36:55 <LarrySteeze> it's a separate radio
Aug 11 20:39:15 <GodGinrai> btw, does VBox 4.1.18 work w/ the webOS sdk?
Aug 11 20:40:37 <LarrySteeze> of course
Aug 11 20:41:48 <GodGinrai> k
Aug 11 20:51:30 * HaDAk|work waves
Aug 11 20:52:53 * LarrySteeze waves back
Aug 11 20:53:12 <HaDAk|work> it's too busy at work :(
Aug 11 22:09:43 <LarrySteeze> EricBlade: you around?
Aug 12 02:59:43 <ka6sox-farfarawa> can anyone give me a md5sum for /usr/bin/LunaSysMgr on a 3.0.5  TouchPad...
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Aug 12 02:59:59 2012