**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Oct 04 02:59:59 2012 Oct 04 03:00:05 hey scoutcamper Oct 04 03:00:12 yo Oct 04 03:00:23 how's it goin? Oct 04 03:01:28 well, i will stick around for awhile. I have some things I can get done in the meantime. Oct 04 03:05:13 here is a question, the OS taht you are planning to run on your devices, will that be open sourced? Oct 04 03:05:19 and is there an org structure for PIC yet? Oct 04 03:05:38 something that shows who is who, what they are responsible for, etc Oct 04 03:05:59 like who is selecting/finding devices, who is working on ports, who is working on kernels, who is working on hardware interaction, etc? Oct 04 03:06:48 MattZakutny, ^^^ Oct 04 03:06:51 open sourced - yes. Oct 04 03:07:09 there is an organization structure to pic as well. Oct 04 03:07:15 as in, it will be available in some sort of public repo, I.E. GitHub or something similar? Oct 04 03:07:24 is there a /documented/ org structure? Oct 04 03:08:15 a "whose who" is complicated for many of the members in PIC. (Not all) it's something that we have been back and forth with mostly because of Internals & Ports request for us to open who are are. Oct 04 03:08:30 exactly Oct 04 03:08:34 we have no clue who you guys are Oct 04 03:08:48 so if we wanted to work with someone on kernel development, we wouldn't know who to contact Oct 04 03:09:00 The problems with this is that many of us have full time jobs/commitments where we are not exactly able to show on our Linkedin accounts & online openly just who we are in PIC. Oct 04 03:09:27 that's an excuse Oct 04 03:09:41 On top of this; Some people feel that if we start talking about who we are right now, when our accomplishments are just so minimal in the public eye, we are doing nothing but bragging about ourselves & not actually doing what we set out to do. Oct 04 03:09:49 it doesn't have to list people with conflicts, we just need to know who to contact about different things Oct 04 03:09:55 for an example, here is ours http://wiki.webos-ports.org/wiki/WhoIsWho Oct 04 03:10:11 so far all you have done is brag Oct 04 03:10:17 not to be rude Oct 04 03:10:38 but we see a lot of talk about what your plans are, and absolutely nothing that shows that you are capable of ataining any of it Oct 04 03:10:47 s/ataining/attaining/ Oct 04 03:10:48 cryptk meant: but we see a lot of talk about what your plans are, and absolutely nothing that shows that you are capable of attaining any of it Oct 04 03:11:35 do you guys plan to use an OS that is your own fork of the HP webOS code? or a fork of ours? or work with us on one common OS? Oct 04 03:11:43 medwards@phxdevices.com is the main person dealing with all stuff when it comes to Applications & web development. He spends most of his time in PIC organizing groups, tasks & how to implement the right people into that type of task. Oct 04 03:12:05 Marc Edwards has been in contact w/ both ka6sox & Rwhitby Oct 04 03:12:19 here is an example, say we wanted to collaborate with you guys on getting the radios in device X working Oct 04 03:12:23 who would we talk to about that Oct 04 03:12:46 marc edwards & one of his key members Silvio Ventres Oct 04 03:14:14 give me a few to review the log of the previous conversation and I will bring up the concerns that we had then Oct 04 03:14:38 absolutely, take your time. I have emails to write as usual :) - Oct 04 03:14:46 by the way, thanks to PIC for addressing the twitter fiasco Oct 04 03:15:01 I am sure you can understand how that could rub us the wrong way Oct 04 03:15:42 good evening Oct 04 03:15:48 ahh, ka6sox ;) Oct 04 03:16:54 so MattZakutny what are you guys planning to do for an OS? Oct 04 03:17:19 give that credit to Brandon & I'm sorry that offended you. I will talk with Sharon about it in the near future so we make sure we give credit to the appropriate people. Oct 04 03:17:47 Evening MattZakutny Oct 04 03:17:49 I do have to say it helps, a promise was made, and it was kept, that is a Good Thing (TM) Oct 04 03:18:02 How are you doing Ka6sox! are you a sox fan? Oct 04 03:18:50 PIC has major plans for a phone right now before anything else. but we do have a small team in place to make some adjustments to the OS that we feel are: 1 necessary and 2 what we feel we can achieve. Oct 04 03:19:23 is that OS planned to be based off of HP code? -ports code? something else? Oct 04 03:19:40 simple improvements such as: the google maps application, email 2.0 application, a updated cut/copy paste feature as well as making sure Just Say is available in English and refined Oct 04 03:20:18 i think a lot of that depends on our relationship with you guys. We need to have a better relationship if we are going to succeed in what we do. Oct 04 03:20:39 Right now PIC's relationship is stronger w/ Samsung then w/ webOS Ports.. which is somethign that just doesn't make sense to me. Oct 04 03:21:26 I think at least part of that is caused by what seems to be an emotional tug-of-war that you have been playing with the webOS community Oct 04 03:21:54 i'm personally not sure where the misconception became something that PIC was going to close source Open webOS & push it out on teh world. Oct 04 03:22:01 you in the PIC sense..not you personally Oct 04 03:22:11 no i understand. Oct 04 03:22:18 yep, pretty much any time I say "you" it means "PIC" Oct 04 03:22:28 there are bumps in every road. Oct 04 03:22:49 I have seen lots of information from PIC stating things like "don't worry, we will take care of you" with nothing explaining how, or showing that you are even capable of doing that Oct 04 03:23:37 a big part of that is that without anything stating who exactly PIC is, there is no way to hold anyone accountable for promises that are made Oct 04 03:23:49 I know what you are getting at Oct 04 03:23:53 https://twitter.com/phxdevices/status/246776148820885504 Oct 04 03:24:07 Shortly after HP said they will not work with legacy devices anymore correct? Oct 04 03:24:08 we in -Ports have chosen to address that issue by not making any promises, we don't claim anything, we show things instead after there is something to show Oct 04 03:24:11 is this what we are getting at? Oct 04 03:24:21 yes, that was one of the things that was along those lines Oct 04 03:24:30 lets use that as a core example. Oct 04 03:25:57 Marco Improda some of you may know gained access to our twitter after the news was announced and decided to tell the world that we were going to do this. Marco can be a great mind at times & used to deal with our conversations with HP. Oct 04 03:26:38 However, he also speaks out of turn if you understand. He was merely relaying something that him and HP were discussing; But nothing concrete. Oct 04 03:26:39 morning Oct 04 03:26:47 Morning Rod. Oct 04 03:27:42 As to our other statements; well, those are very 'hopeful' statements. Currently pic works on many things and most of the things we work on we can't exactly openly discuss with people Oct 04 03:28:31 this is both good and bad... Oct 04 03:28:52 Our approach to developing a device has been very closed an the reason why is because it can still go through many revisions before we move to that next stage Oct 04 03:28:53 the community can get its hopes up that someone is going to 'save" them from obsolesence... Oct 04 03:29:16 however...its also leads to being labelled as "vapourware" Oct 04 03:29:34 :) i have always loved that name. Oct 04 03:29:56 I don't want to wait for DukeNukem3d Oct 04 03:29:59 notice that nobody outside of -ports knew we were working on a GNex until we had something to show, so I understand the idea behind keeping some information "close to the chest" Oct 04 03:31:07 Absolutely and we try not to give all the information out to just anyone that joined. We went through a process with each volunteer. we wanted to work with the people that were serious. The ones that are going to commit time, effort & find a way to make this happen. Oct 04 03:31:41 I think a statement along the lines of "PIC is working on a phone that will run Open webOS, but it will not be ready for at least the next six months (or insert other timeframe)" would be a good way to set the expectations correctly with the webOS community. Underpromise and overdeliver. Oct 04 03:31:52 My point being is that we want to keep things close & work with the people that are going to do what it takes to make a difference. Oct 04 03:31:56 MattZakutny, are you a company (as it looks like in your delaware incorporatoin papers) or are you a project? Oct 04 03:32:23 At the moment, the history of the twitter feeds leads the community to believe that something will happen soon (where "soon" is measured in weeks, not months or years). Oct 04 03:33:00 i think a lot of people here are generally upset with the twitter feed & personally, i'm not much of a twitter guy. I will talk about this with Sharon. Oct 04 03:33:21 the phone/tablet market is extremely volatile, something that is "new" now will be "old" in 6 months. Any timeline expressed needs to be abundantly clear, otherwise people will assume it is much shorter than it may really be Oct 04 03:33:52 absolutely; and both markets are generally exceptionally hard to turn a profit Oct 04 03:34:30 the question: are we a project or are we a company. Oct 04 03:34:50 exactly, and with no org structure (and if it isn't documented anywhere, you don't have one), ther eis no way of knowing what will fund the devices, there is no way of knowing that you have people that can make the OS run on whatever device you use/create, etc Oct 04 03:35:11 With regard to the "Who's Who" - it is PIC's perogative as to how open it wishes to be with regard to it's structure or membership. But for an open source project to work with a company, the lines of communication must be open and public when working on open source items. Oct 04 03:36:14 It's clear that PIC discussions with OEMs cannot be public, and as long as the community is not lead to believe that something is going to come of that in an unrealistically short timeframe there is no issue with that. Oct 04 03:37:32 well you have 2 parts. You have the people designing a phone & working w/ manufacturers that needs to stay close - Where we feel our app teams & developers can work openly Oct 04 03:37:51 that is understandable Oct 04 03:38:01 but who are the "app teams" and "developers" Oct 04 03:38:16 if we don't know that, there is no way we can work with them, from a purely logical standpoint Oct 04 03:38:57 perhaps having a structure similar to how HP and Gram works would be beneficial to you guys Oct 04 03:39:01 that is something Marc Edwards, Silvio Ventres, Gary Gendel, Patrick Campanele, Patrick Cimino would be involved. I do not typically deal with those guys Oct 04 03:39:15 Which is a big part of the reason you have not spoken with me in the past. Oct 04 03:39:20 cryptk: i'm working to get the app teams more open, and the apps onto github when ready Oct 04 03:39:51 cryptk: i'm working closly with Marc Edwards to get the teams more into the open, as well as the projects we're working on Oct 04 03:39:56 instead i deal with: Product design, manufacturing companies, Contacts, Creative design, Marketing, Business relations.. Things of that nature. Oct 04 03:39:57 PatrickC, typically code for an open source initiative is on GitHub during development, not just when it's "finished" Oct 04 03:40:14 cryptk: right now our code is on github, just not public. as it doesn't even work Oct 04 03:40:16 trying to change that Oct 04 03:40:33 With respect to apps, I expect WebOS Internals would treat those developers as we do any other webOS developer - collaboration in the open and assistance where things interact with the homebrew infrastructure or services. Oct 04 03:40:36 MattZakutny, so would it be fair to generalize it as you work more on the "hardware and management" side and not the "software" side? Oct 04 03:40:43 cryptk: here is the link for our email app https://github.com/skipmeister123/QuickReplyBar Oct 04 03:40:43 Patrick has more free time then some of our other developers. so I specifically asked him to be a big help in the next few weeks in doing that. Oct 04 03:41:32 rwhitby - absolutely treat them no differently. Oct 04 03:41:38 PatrickC, that, IMHO, is the kind of things you guys should be tweeting about Oct 04 03:41:38 but as there isn't much done in it yet, or anything done in it, we don't want to completely open it up to the public Oct 04 03:41:54 "come help us make the email client you want!" would be a great tweet IMHO Oct 04 03:42:07 i really did not realize how popular this 'tweeting' is Oct 04 03:42:09 With respect to porting Open webOS, to be quite frank we have not yet been put in touch with anyone in PIC who has the required experience and skills to be involved in the porting process, but welcome anyone who does have that to be involved as much as they can. Note that this channel is the best place to be involved in that area. Oct 04 03:42:10 i'll talk that over with marketing Oct 04 03:42:45 it would be a tweet showing something rather than talking about something Oct 04 03:43:07 So at the moment, we see PIC as a company developing hardware in private (and rightly so), and a loosely connected group of app developers. Oct 04 03:43:09 tweeting especially popular with webOS people MattZakutny Oct 04 03:43:15 rwhitby - as per conversations with you in the past you have requested we bring massive things on to the table to show you before entering this chat, or to better say working with webOSInternals Oct 04 03:43:19 cryptk: we also have this https://github.com/marcedhk/phx-copy-cut-paste Oct 04 03:43:32 that's our contribution to OWOS currently (actually i think Luna) Oct 04 03:43:37 we're still working on it Oct 04 03:44:25 MattZakutny: oh, to be clear, there is no barrier to entering this chat. The barrier is that to be a useful member of a porting team there is a certain level of experience and skills that is assumed. Oct 04 03:44:25 it is to my knowledge that we had men working on the porting, but they wanted to finish their train of thought before they brought it to you. Oct 04 03:45:15 MattZakutny, so if you have X number of people, they would rather work alone for now than work with our Y number of people? Oct 04 03:45:22 What we do try and shy away from here are hopes, dreams and blue sky ideas. We expect people to come with concrete feasible plans. Oct 04 03:45:42 the point of collaboration is that issues that they are running into may be things we have solved, and visa versa Oct 04 03:46:50 i completely agree & this is something I have advocated to the people that have volunteered for PIC in the past. Oct 04 03:47:14 did I miss something re: Company and Volunteers? Oct 04 03:47:50 are the people working on the porting efforts members of PIC? or are they volunteers? Oct 04 03:47:52 why not a private irc channel wherein collaboration can occur between the two "teams" Oct 04 03:47:58 members tend to stay around, volunteers tend to come and go Oct 04 03:48:12 I think some of us are getting ahead of ourselves. Oct 04 03:48:13 Nergal, open source project, open communication Oct 04 03:48:24 management can be in a private channel, sure, but development is in the open Oct 04 03:48:45 And so many are now discussing that it is harder for me to keep up, so bare with me please. Oct 04 03:48:58 no worries ;) Oct 04 03:49:13 right, but right now it's open source no communication (from what I've gathered so far) Oct 04 03:49:18 cryptk: i love the idea of a private IRC channel Oct 04 03:49:34 it's something i think we should persue. i'll talk with the head of development and see what he thinks Oct 04 03:49:54 We are a company with absolutely no product right now - so are we really a company? Oct 04 03:50:12 MattZakutny: i wouldn't say we have no product.. we have https://github.com/marcedhk/phx-copy-cut-paste Oct 04 03:50:12 PatrickC, open source project, open communication, that has been the standpoint that we have advocated from the start. Oct 04 03:50:16 porting of open source software to public devices happens in public channels. if PIC had a product, and wished to discuss porting to that, then that could happen in a private channel of course. Oct 04 03:50:31 cryptk: i know. but for internal comuncation between us two (-ports and PIC) Oct 04 03:50:31 in reality, we are a group of volunteers. The company was made for multiple reasons: 1. We can't just goto Open Mobile, Samsung, ZXD Mobile Etc, and present to them "Hey we are a group of volunteers looking to build a phone." Oct 04 03:50:35 but also a public channel Oct 04 03:50:46 PatrickC, what is wrong with collaborating in this channel? Oct 04 03:50:51 just until some terra firma is reached I mean, so dorks (like me) can't cause a muss but so MattZakutnuy and rwhitby can bridge some. Oct 04 03:51:00 cryptk: some thinks we might want to talk about privately Oct 04 03:51:09 instead, we had to become professional. Someone had to put up the money, the infrastructure, the business plan, program and more in order to begin these communications. One of the main things in PIC is the communications that we have to open with different companies. Oct 04 03:51:13 In order to work together. Oct 04 03:52:14 PatrickC: https://github.com/marcedhk/phx-copy-cut-paste is a case in point. When you fork a project and start making modifications, it's convention to (where possible) discuss that with the upstream developers. Oct 04 03:52:17 PatrickC, is there anything that states what that repo adds to LSM? Oct 04 03:52:36 in no way am I suggesting this channel is closed, more akin to what rwhitby said re the channel Oct 04 03:52:46 it's not a requirement, just a convention. it makes it easier for that change to be accepted into the upstream when it is finished, instead of it being a surprise. Oct 04 03:52:52 cryptk: not yet, but in turn it adds some things to the Cut/Copy/Paste function in webOS Oct 04 03:52:56 and do you plan to pull request it back up to upstream? or have it remain as your own independent fork? Oct 04 03:53:22 cryptk: that i don't have the answer to Oct 04 03:53:44 Nergal, of course if PIC had a product that they could not discuss openly for various reasons, we would be willing to work with them on the methods of discussion Oct 04 03:54:37 OK, so I'm adding to my mental map of PIC that there are also some folks working on LunaCE changes, but not in communication with us (which is not a requirement, but is good open source development practice) Oct 04 03:54:44 PIC believes it's best possible way to creating an actual product is A: Through MTK Chipsets or B: GTA04 company (who we are talking with) that's really as much as i would like to say regarding that. MTK chips are a new chip & usually support Low/Medium quality phones Oct 04 03:55:43 using QualComm chips - is most likely going to cost too much money for PIC to be able to raise via: Investors / kickstarter projects. Oct 04 03:56:41 rwhitby: marcedhk should be able to answer some more of the development questions Oct 04 03:56:49 MattZakutny: Random comment: what about a TI chip? Oct 04 03:57:02 MattZakutny: just to make sure you're aware, this is a publicly logged channel. If you have said anything that you would prefer not to be public, we can expunge the logs, but we have an expectation that anything said here is public knowledge and we don't want to know any NDA information here. Oct 04 03:57:32 TI chips are used by GTA04 company - but do keep in mind if PIC goes TI chipset - then you have to be prepared to move on from TI in the near future. Oct 04 03:57:51 hi guys Oct 04 03:57:58 hello marcedhk Oct 04 03:58:01 morning marcedhk Oct 04 03:58:21 ka6sox: marcedhk is the lead of development.. so he might be able to answer more questions then i can :) Oct 04 03:58:25 everyone, this is Marc Edwards & He works closely with Patrick Campanele - I believe he has been working on a Port w/ Silvio Ventres but obviously has not gotten as far as you have. Oct 04 03:58:45 yes, we're still slogging through it Oct 04 03:58:47 hi marcedhk Oct 04 03:58:59 hi Oct 04 03:59:12 looks promising, but it's a bit of an onion Oct 04 03:59:13 so MattZakutny, since you seem to be more focused on the hardware, do you have any EE's in PIC? Oct 04 03:59:30 Electrical Engineers? Oct 04 03:59:33 yes Oct 04 03:59:45 as in, people with experience designing an embedded system Oct 04 04:00:04 we are mainly working w/ people that are still in college: Mechanical Engineers, Electrical engineers, Architects, Industrial Designers, Architectural/Engineers Oct 04 04:00:28 I personally have close communication with Electrical Engineers, Mechanical Engineers & really every type of engineer. Oct 04 04:00:30 so, do any of your EE's have experience with embedded devices/cellphone design? Oct 04 04:00:33 * PatrickC has a father that is an EE ;) Oct 04 04:00:46 I'm more of the coordinator than the lead btw - Silvio's really the one doing the heavy lifting Oct 04 04:01:30 dear god, this chat looks like a wall of text Oct 04 04:01:32 what'd i miss? Oct 04 04:01:43 MattZakutny: what timeframe do you have in mind for a first prototype? Oct 04 04:01:55 EricBlade, start at 5 after the hour Oct 04 04:02:01 EricBlade: just some talk between some of the "big wigs" at PIC and -ports Oct 04 04:02:03 but there have also been times when it's been someone else as well - it's really a group effort Oct 04 04:02:23 Well honestly, our product design team is small but efficient. we feel we are moving in a good direction but this is most of our first time working on a phone. I think 1 guy has first hand experience & maybe 1 other has a father in the business. Oct 04 04:02:38 When it comes to our first prototype we had an idea "and this is really basing on if we go MTK chipsets" Oct 04 04:02:39 cryptk: that's 3 minutes from now .. IRC in the future? :) Oct 04 04:02:48 EricBlade, the last hour... Oct 04 04:03:19 MattZakutny: ok, so you're still in the reference platform exploration stage. Oct 04 04:03:22 1. we can purchase phones w/ similar specifications to it so we can begin creating the proper drivers for the device (this will at least give us a head start) that way we can order the prototypes and they can come in later. Oct 04 04:04:04 we are trying to keep all options open as long as possible; but we have been very close to working out a deal with a MTK chip company Oct 04 04:04:35 it is honestly a bit hard to explain rod. Oct 04 04:04:53 and there's dkirker's headline Oct 04 04:05:02 dkirker? where Oct 04 04:05:17 huh? Oct 04 04:05:21 1. people in china right now seem to be on holiday Oct 04 04:05:32 lol Oct 04 04:05:41 never mind Oct 04 04:05:59 2. We have just began the discussion phase where we are talking about 'prototypes'. First we wanted to obtain numbers that we felt were reasonable before we moved to that discussion. Oct 04 04:06:07 and we are having that discussion with a few companies. Oct 04 04:06:48 MattZakutny: does MTK have a reference platform, like the OMAP Zoom? Oct 04 04:09:05 Chris K - our guy who has been in the main discussions w/ those carrying the MTK chips believes they might but is really unsure. Oct 04 04:09:19 well, i'm off to bed... night all.. Oct 04 04:09:31 Good night Patrick! Oct 04 04:09:46 Nice seeing you in IRC MattZakutny Oct 04 04:09:57 nite PatrickC|Sleep Oct 04 04:10:13 night ka6sox Oct 04 04:10:38 MattZakutnv this is old, but is it still relatively the case with the MTK? http://www.mygsmforum.com/f7/mtk-chinese-cpu-detailed-study-learn-everything-about-mtk-73/ Oct 04 04:12:06 MTK can do a 1ghz dual core phone w/ 2 gigs of ram w/ their 6577 chip let me look over this forum Oct 04 04:12:22 http://www.gizmochina.com/2012/07/20/understanding-mediatek-mtk-mt6577-chipset/ Oct 04 04:13:20 * Nergal loves duckduckgo opensearch on touchpad Oct 04 04:15:04 From what I have seen via Gandalf, MTK is still selling a reference design base, and allowing certain mods to that design for the individual buyers. Yes. Oct 04 04:15:30 marcedhk, what are your plans for the woce fork you have started? Oct 04 04:16:19 marcedhk: BTW, if you have desires for the changes in https://github.com/marcedhk/phx-copy-cut-paste to end up in the LunaCE release, it's a good idea to be discussing it with the folks here as it is being developed, so that we can align on architectural issues and plans. Oct 04 04:17:08 the idea was to use if for our cut/copy/paste functionality improvements so it could be contributed to the general community Oct 04 04:17:21 in LunaCE? Oct 04 04:17:26 yes Oct 04 04:17:45 are you tracking along with the community? Oct 04 04:18:09 unfortunately it's ended up taking a lot more time than envisioned Oct 04 04:18:44 it's tough on a volunteer only project...but I probably don't have to tell you that! Oct 04 04:18:44 understood Oct 04 04:19:31 and the mail application? Oct 04 04:20:54 yes, that as well. It's more of a pet project that one of our developers came up with - so far he's mostly been working on his own with it. We have a couple other guys joining him now, but they haven't made any code contributions to it yet Oct 04 04:21:01 well, it sounds as though the discussion has stopped. Oct 04 04:21:11 MattZakutny: I need to go to a meeting now. Thanks for giving us an insight into your plans. On the hardware side, I wish you well, but it seems there's not much WebOS Ports can do until you've decided on your reference platform. Oct 04 04:21:31 On the WebOS CE side, we will continue to discuss with marcedhk here. Oct 04 04:21:42 :) or at least i have caught up. Oct 04 04:22:01 If there are folks working on Open webOS porting, we would encourage them to also join the conversation here. Oct 04 04:22:08 MattZakutny, this has been insightful. Oct 04 04:22:14 Thank you to both PI and ports for this wonderful public convo Oct 04 04:22:22 For the app development, let us know if anyone needs assistance getting them into Preware or whatever. Oct 04 04:22:41 thanks for taking the time to talk with me Rod & ka6sox :) I hope you guys have a good day :) Oct 04 04:22:51 you too...Good Night Oct 04 04:24:16 marcedhk, okay...FOSS projects go like this...nothing then an explosion of activity. Oct 04 04:25:08 MattZakutny, it's been insightful Oct 04 04:26:02 * rwhitby bbl Oct 04 04:26:12 yeah, that takes some adjustment for me Oct 04 04:26:30 so marcedhk you are one of the people working on the actual porting right? Oct 04 04:28:15 tangentially. I'm really just there to oil the gears and get everyone what they need. But I'm not someone who can just sit and watch, and end up putting my hand to the wheel as needed Oct 04 04:29:03 a lot of it is grunt work and research anyway Oct 04 04:29:11 what are you guys using as a build system? Oct 04 04:30:51 couldn't tell you - that's really not my area of expertise Oct 04 04:31:24 so, if -ports wanted to collaborate with people where that is their area of expertise, who would we contact? Oct 04 04:31:31 or who would we expect to be contacting us? Oct 04 04:31:46 me, and I'd link you to the appropriate person Oct 04 04:32:04 I think that information was what I was just asking for... Oct 04 04:32:26 lol Oct 04 04:33:05 I'd probably put you on to Silvio at the moment - he's the one that's spearheading things right now Oct 04 04:34:03 I think it's 12 that he's using... Oct 04 04:34:17 but I'm not sure Oct 04 04:34:28 and 12 would be? Oct 04 04:34:55 what he's building it on. that's what you were asking right? Oct 04 04:35:47 12 is a number Oct 04 04:35:58 I am unaware of any build system that is named "12" Oct 04 04:35:58 Ubuntu 12 Oct 04 04:36:08 that would be an OS, not a build system Oct 04 04:36:16 we for instance have been using OpenEmbedded Oct 04 04:36:41 along with it's suite of tools etc Oct 04 04:36:46 as I said, not my area. Yes, it's Open Embedded Oct 04 04:36:55 gotcha, no worries Oct 04 04:37:17 so I am assuming you guys are running into roadblocks of sorts with your porting efforts, we have been as well Oct 04 04:37:31 if we weren't the GNex would be fully functional ;) Oct 04 04:37:55 so my next question is, if you guys are interested in working with -ports, which it seems you are Oct 04 04:38:03 why has Silvio not contacted us at all? Oct 04 04:38:12 yes, ran into some nastiness with webkit actually Oct 04 04:38:27 ... webkit... given us a few issues as well ;) Oct 04 04:38:50 seems there's something odd about the way it's set up Oct 04 04:39:03 obviously there are roadblocks, if there weren't OWOS would be running on every device by now ;) Oct 04 04:39:16 but still, if you guys want to collaborate, why are you not collaborating? Oct 04 04:39:30 I would think Silvio bring in this channel would be the first step towards that Oct 04 04:40:33 I think there was some mixup in the communication between us quite frankly Oct 04 04:41:23 I raised the issue a couple weeks ago on the mailing list, and mentioned the approach we were going to take, but the feedback seemed to be that you were waiting for the 1.0 release. Oct 04 04:41:44 this channel has existed since long before 1.0 Oct 04 04:41:50 we didn't want to wait, so we just started trying to work on it, and haven't really been looking around Oct 04 04:41:54 which mailing list? Oct 04 04:42:13 were any of us in on the discussion? Oct 04 04:42:29 obviously we had to of been if we said that we were waiting to collaborate until 1.0 Oct 04 04:42:41 openwebos-porting Oct 04 04:43:52 well, the first step to collaboration would be to have the people that are performing the porting efforts in this channel Oct 04 04:43:53 then when 1.0 came out, and you guys did your demo video of it running, I was shall we say, a tad bit annoyed Oct 04 04:44:18 as of yet, that hasn't happened, and this channel has no restrictions on who can join Oct 04 04:44:39 marcedhk, we couldnt' say anything at the time... Oct 04 04:45:24 we couldn't collaborate till 1.0 came out Oct 04 04:45:27 then we can :D Oct 04 04:45:47 but now everything is blown wide open, so step 1 to collaboration would be introductions Oct 04 04:45:49 yeah, Matt had suggested it might have been something like that Oct 04 04:46:28 don't get me wrong though - I'm glad to see you guys are really making great strides in this Oct 04 04:47:37 And we should defintely work together....as Rod said awhile back - the community is too small for fragmented efforts Oct 04 04:48:23 have you guys decided on how to tackle the hardware acceleration yet? Oct 04 04:48:27 indeed Oct 04 04:48:48 marcedhk, we are looking into several things Oct 04 04:49:04 one promising tack is to use Stskeeps' libhybris Oct 04 04:49:08 we're looking at necessitas for one... Oct 04 04:49:43 marcedhk: thats mean moving all the openwebos system to an android based one? Oct 04 04:50:18 yes, we've been kind of doing a hybrid approach Oct 04 04:50:38 should be a lot work Oct 04 04:51:01 yes! Oct 04 04:52:05 but it would be a great solution for spreading webOS to android devices - best of both worlds Oct 04 04:52:54 baah Oct 04 04:53:06 android system itself sucks Oct 04 04:53:11 that's also why we chose the Nexus S for our first device - decent performance, inexpensive - not hard to convince someone to add open webos to it Oct 04 04:53:29 it just has the hardware support we need Oct 04 04:54:09 it's kind of crazy....all those iterations and Android stilll hasn't caught up to Luna Oct 04 04:54:41 this is all a matter of personal opinion... Oct 04 04:54:54 (but I happen to agree) Oct 04 04:55:11 you think Jelly Bean matches it? oh...u had me going for a second there! Oct 04 04:55:49 all we need from Android is the hardware access and the apps... Oct 04 04:56:24 apps....I hate to say it, but I'm getting more and more skeptical about OpenMobile Oct 04 04:57:05 marcedhk, perhaps because they have made a lot of promises and have shown no way of delivering on them? Oct 04 04:57:21 I don't doubt their capabilities...but I'm starting to really wonder if they are serious about webOS at all, or are just waiting to see what happens Oct 04 04:58:17 I mean, is there anyone who wouldn't have bought ACL for their TP by now had they released it last week? Oct 04 04:58:52 well, the big issue is that Cyanogen made a dual boot solution Oct 04 04:59:01 which kind of makes ACL almost redundant Oct 04 04:59:14 that isn't a knock at CM at all, they have done amazing work Oct 04 04:59:55 yes, but having to dual boot is a clumsy solution...on paper it shouldn't be that big of a deal, but in practice it is Oct 04 05:00:04 and webOS device usage has dropped, which severely lowers the ROI Oct 04 05:00:17 marcedhk, everything is trivial on paper Oct 04 05:00:49 thing is, they supposedly already spent on the R&D...to not just finish it now locks in a major loss Oct 04 05:02:20 but removes ongoing support costs Oct 04 05:02:25 which would be a hit on the ROI Oct 04 05:02:37 they may have decided to cut their losses Oct 04 05:02:41 true, true. Oct 04 05:03:06 have u guys given thought to making a community based solution? Oct 04 05:03:41 * invalidopcode goes to find his acronym dictionary... Oct 04 05:03:45 for running android apps in webOS? Oct 04 05:03:54 yeah Oct 04 05:03:56 invalidopcode, ROI == Return On Investment Oct 04 05:04:13 AFAIK that isn't something we have worked on yet Oct 04 05:04:26 cryptk: ah okay, what's the ACL you mentioned earlier? Oct 04 05:04:43 Android Compatibility Later Oct 04 05:04:52 ahhh okay thanks :) Oct 04 05:04:54 which was a product being made by OpenMobile Oct 04 05:05:08 do you have spare resources that would be interested in taking on something like that? So as not to delay the porting efforts? Oct 04 05:05:41 we keep the number of "targets" that we have to track to a minimum Oct 04 05:06:02 understood Oct 04 05:06:07 I'm not saying it isn't something we would be interested in doing, but I am unsure if we have the bandwidth for it currently Oct 04 05:06:12 that would be a question for ka6sox ;) Oct 04 05:07:19 hey, it's 1am....gonna hit the sack Oct 04 05:07:25 marcedhk, Oct 04 05:07:26 kk Oct 04 05:07:35 what are you asking us to take on? Oct 04 05:08:02 he was asking if we are planning to work on an ACL to ru android apps in webOS Oct 04 05:08:07 an alternative to ACL in case OpenMobile abandons us to our fate Oct 04 05:08:17 :) Oct 04 05:08:35 Every time someone says OpenMobile I think of dkirker and then get really confused :x Oct 04 05:08:38 hi btw Oct 04 05:08:44 not without people who come forward with the skillset and desire to do this... Oct 04 05:08:49 we don' t have either right now. Oct 04 05:08:59 we could just rip RIM's ACL out of the Playbook OS /sarcastic Oct 04 05:09:18 ~lart invalidopcode with a wet noodle Oct 04 05:09:18 * WoceBot pulls out his louisville slugger and uses invalidopcode with a wet noodle's head to break the homerun record Oct 04 05:09:41 does it suck as bad as I've heard? My brother has a Playbook but I haven't gotten a chance to try it yet Oct 04 05:09:56 I am biased Oct 04 05:09:58 strange.. this is like deja vu Oct 04 05:10:03 not the Playbook itself - I mean the android app player Oct 04 05:10:11 rrix: Yeah, I know. I had the similar name 2 years before them. Oct 04 05:10:15 morn Oct 04 05:11:28 i'd say it's in reach of any reasonable community to do a layer that somehow makes it possible to run android apps, i mean, in the end it's just a vm that draws something into a buffer Oct 04 05:12:13 Yeah. The tough part is the amount of work involved to write the VM part of it. Oct 04 05:12:16 i don't think its a question of if it could be done, but more that there are bigger fish to fry... Oct 04 05:12:59 dkirker: people had android in chroot running rendering to the framebuffer directly in nokia internet tablets in the past Oct 04 05:12:59 the single most important thing that can be done right now is get ports going on a variety of devices...so it would ahve to be done in a way that doesn't interfere with that Oct 04 05:13:17 dkirker: so that kinda implies what's possible as low hanging fruit Oct 04 05:13:46 Stskeeps: Yeah. Not saying it isn't possible. Never said that. It just requires some people with the knowhow, and time. Oct 04 05:13:51 yep Oct 04 05:16:56 on that note, I'm going to sign off for the night. I'll ask Silvio to drop in if he can sometime tomorrow so you can get a feel of where we are heading. Oct 04 05:18:13 nite marcedhk Oct 04 05:18:17 good talking with you. Oct 04 05:19:10 same here Oct 04 05:19:55 * Stskeeps tries to read backlog Oct 04 05:26:11 https://twitter.com/webosports/status/253727456282955776 Oct 04 05:29:10 so current WebOS versions (up thru LunaCE mod) support the idea of a USB drive mode... Oct 04 05:30:30 ka6sox, :) Oct 04 05:30:30 can't wait to read more about it :) Oct 04 05:30:47 lilstevie, :D Oct 04 05:39:36 ka6sox: will their be a stable/nightly/monthly release of webos ports distributions for devices? Oct 04 05:41:41 invalidopcode, unknown... Oct 04 05:41:54 ah okay Oct 04 05:41:54 that all depends upon developer involvement and needs Oct 04 05:42:05 ah okay, I see Oct 04 05:42:36 I already build Optware for a significant # of targets. Oct 04 05:43:39 ah Oct 04 05:43:40 and we have mechanism's for building entire distributions and doing "upgrades"...but for entire OS that takes serious hardware. Oct 04 05:44:00 have you ever used jenkins? Oct 04 05:44:09 daily Oct 04 05:44:19 ah cool :P Oct 04 05:45:17 okay well I'm off for the night Oct 04 05:45:44 hopefully I can get away without anymore physically virtual harm.. Oct 04 13:43:50 Nice convo with PIC from last night :) Oct 04 13:43:55 Went through and read it Oct 04 13:48:34 yeah, same here Oct 04 13:48:38 that was a big backlog Oct 04 13:48:40 how about some hilights? Oct 04 14:28:48 morning Oct 04 14:36:35 morning ka6sox Oct 04 14:36:46 HaDAk|: just some talk between the 2 teams about things. Oct 04 14:37:00 anything important? Oct 04 14:43:07 HaDAk|, mostly getting to know each other...good stuff Oct 04 14:43:16 gotcha. Oct 04 14:43:37 ka6sox: we're trying to get the core dev to come in today or tomorrow. no promises yet though. Oct 04 14:44:23 yup, NP Oct 04 14:44:40 still a good convo last night Oct 04 15:15:42 https://twitter.com/webosports/status/253875849693114369 Oct 04 15:16:34 ka6sox: link doesn't go anywhere Oct 04 15:16:38 just github.com itself Oct 04 15:16:47 really? Oct 04 15:16:50 broken eh Oct 04 15:16:51 hmmm Oct 04 15:16:52 in my twitter Oct 04 15:19:58 https://twitter.com/webosports/status/253876934449176576 Oct 04 15:20:00 better? Oct 04 15:20:24 works for me Oct 04 15:20:31 aye Oct 04 15:21:53 me and twitter hate each other....its tough to get the syntax right Oct 04 15:22:39 this is my final tweet on this subject...assuming I didn't stuff it up: Oct 04 15:23:55 https://twitter.com/webosports/status/253877519630086144 Oct 04 15:28:14 what's hard about twitter syntax? Oct 04 15:29:43 Thanks to JaMa morphis and GNUtoo-desktop for getting this out.... I believe this will help bring more people into the fold... Oct 04 15:29:55 summatusmentis, I started out in Manual Typewriters. Oct 04 15:30:23 sooo... typing is hard Oct 04 15:30:31 ? Oct 04 15:30:54 it is its *own* language Oct 04 15:33:43 ka6sox, if only I had a GNex :( Oct 04 15:35:03 i have a vzw gnex, so it doesn't count. Oct 04 15:35:05 * HaDAk| sighs Oct 04 15:35:32 hello all Oct 04 15:37:02 * pezman726 is trying to get webos on his raspberry pi. Anybody here attempt that yet? Oct 04 15:37:19 aaa801 has been working on a port Oct 04 15:38:01 saw it on the wosnation forums...but hasn't been updated since like, the 22nd Oct 04 15:38:58 I don't know...he has been here but I don't know his status currently Oct 04 15:38:59 was hoping i could get something running by adding the meta-raspberrypi layer...but failed miserably! Oct 04 15:39:07 :-P Oct 04 15:39:53 I don't have one so I'm no help! Oct 04 15:41:25 score, something to read through to see how they got OWO running on Gnex! Oct 04 15:42:18 this is my first time playing with openembedded....so i've got a bit of learning to do Oct 04 15:44:16 elpollodiablo1, its a start Oct 04 15:44:46 this port is alpha quality and there is no "image" that you can install currently Oct 04 15:45:02 something is always better then nothing. Oct 04 15:45:42 we hope by putting it out in the communty that we can get others working with us to rapidly get it up in features and stability Oct 04 15:45:54 that is fine, the more I learn and read about the proccess others took. the more helpful I can be in the long run Oct 04 16:33:52 good morning peeeoples Oct 04 16:34:30 morgen Oct 04 16:34:47 yo Oct 04 16:35:40 ni hao Oct 04 16:38:05 indeed. Oct 04 16:42:28 morning Oct 04 16:42:37 not a very good one anymore Oct 04 16:42:57 my long-standing fear of knocking my coffee cup over onto my laptop was just realized Oct 04 16:45:07 ouch :-( Oct 04 16:50:19 Grabber5_0, I sympathize...I did this like 2 months ago...I nearly cried Oct 04 16:52:11 This is my work laptop too .. hopefully it didn't get past the keyboard Oct 04 16:52:33 I replaced a keyboard on another laptop years ago after the same thing happened (for a very different reason) Oct 04 16:53:24 saw the story about the owos build release.. haven't had time to read what's new. is it the same build that was in the video? Oct 04 16:53:54 I sit and work with my coffee next to my laptop every day. I suppose it was bound to happen eventually Oct 04 16:53:58 Grabber5_0: are you like a week out of date now, or are you referring tos omething today? Oct 04 16:54:33 There was a new webosnation story posted on Facebook, it seemed to be new Oct 04 16:55:19 that or Facebook is just getting around to putting it in my news feed :p Oct 04 16:56:32 looks like the build instructions for what was shown last week Oct 04 16:56:46 * Grabber5_0 reads story while his work laptop dries out :( Oct 04 17:06:50 put it in a bag of rice Oct 04 17:07:52 oh god, someone dropped their phone in water? Oct 04 17:11:07 I've done that with a laptop once, didn't work Oct 04 17:11:33 was a lot of rice too Oct 04 17:17:32 anyone remember how exactly to trigger the issue where cardview apps appear to be halfway rotated the wrong direction? Oct 04 17:18:02 GodGinrai: Grabber5_0 dumped coffee in his laptop Oct 04 17:18:09 EricBlade: break the card ordering so one gets stuck in the background, then rotate Oct 04 17:18:19 oh ouch Oct 04 17:18:36 basically some failsafes are needed so the card ordering never breaks, or has a way to detect breakage and reinit Oct 04 17:18:44 ShiftyAxel: i seem to recall it being easier than that, not the full screen app view Oct 04 17:19:00 I don't recall Oct 04 17:19:15 i thought it was just as easy as go into card view and rotate, but i can't rmember for sure, and i don't have my CE touchpad on me Oct 04 17:19:19 I do know that tabbed cards + rotate = trouble Oct 04 17:19:27 wait, ShiftyAxel, did you just tell him a way to reproduce a bug by reproducing another bug first? Oct 04 17:19:55 GodGinrai: i think the overall cause is one and the same Oct 04 17:20:14 I think all the coffee landed on the keyboard... so I am hoping this keyboard is spill-proof (well, they do exist :p ) I didn't find liquid anywhere else Oct 04 17:20:19 something causing the layout algorithms to not run on a certain card, probably because it's somehow become groupless Oct 04 17:20:39 Grabber5_0: My friend did similar before w/ his laptop Oct 04 17:20:40 well it does fix itself on the next repaint Oct 04 17:21:04 And he took the keyboard out and cleaned his device, and the device continued to work Oct 04 17:21:15 he just had to replace the keyboard Oct 04 17:21:54 GodGinrai: my son kicked a cup of coffee over on another laptop of mine (I was tickling him) years ago.. I had to replace the keyboard, it was screwed up, but nothing else Oct 04 17:22:06 * Grabber5_0 is crossing his fingers Oct 04 17:22:29 DOH stupid rotation lock :D Oct 04 17:22:31 ShiftyAxel: do you know a way to reproduce it without the card-switch gestures? Oct 04 17:23:27 i know i saw it in LunaCE before we had made any changes to it, but i can't for the life of me remember how to trigger it Oct 04 17:23:37 Heh never tried rotating the TP while tabbed cards were enabled. that does look mighty odd Oct 04 17:23:52 s/enabled/displayed/ Oct 04 17:23:52 Grabber5_0 meant: Heh never tried rotating the TP while tabbed cards were displayed. that does look mighty odd Oct 04 17:27:10 ShiftyAxel how do you break card ordering? Oct 04 17:28:11 use lots of cards Oct 04 17:28:30 or at least that's how I break card ordering on my Pre3 Oct 04 17:55:48 a little "#include "unistd.h"" in the cxx api of pbnjson (JValue.h) would be great to make it compile with a newer g++ :) Oct 04 17:57:02 (I'm trying to see how hard it will be to make openwebos-desktop compile on an x64 Archlinux install...) Oct 04 18:03:33 tofe: it's not terribly difficult, panda-z and myself have built it on x64, he's built it on archlinux. Oct 04 18:03:57 however, there's potentially a cornucopia of not 64-bit safe code Oct 04 18:04:17 although it doesn't seem like there's probably a big problem, it hasn't really been examined fully as far as i'm aware Oct 04 18:05:18 github.com/ericblade/build-desktop has an x64 branch that might help you. actually , there are i think 3 or 4 forks in my repo that have an x64 branch that may help Oct 04 18:06:04 although the basic apps seem to work ok, if i try and bring up synergv 1 on it, it's an instant crash that i haven't been able to track down Oct 04 18:06:17 and i suspect it's x64 related Oct 04 18:14:08 http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/4/3454778/hp-hiring-open-webos-enyo-developers Oct 04 18:15:32 this is a good thing(tm) Oct 04 18:17:16 EricBlade: Wow, wonderful, thanks :) Oct 04 18:17:55 Tofe: i make no guarantees about fitness for use, especially after the most recent big code drop, but it did work for me several weeks ago Oct 04 18:18:43 there's a bit about "-fuse-ld-gold" or something like that, that i guess doesn't work on Arch Oct 04 18:24:23 do we have anyone here who knows bitbake reasonably well? Oct 04 18:25:47 go ahead and ask Oct 04 18:29:34 implementing a recipe : when specifying an install_append() function, does that override any previous install_append() functions? and how to get it to call the previous one, if so? Oct 04 18:29:46 i was under the impression that _append() things were all added together, not overriding Oct 04 18:31:04 EricBlade: it's just appending not overriding Oct 04 18:32:07 morphis: hmm. Oct 04 18:33:39 morphis: interesting. i wonder how on earth my install_append is completely breaking some kind of library thing Oct 04 18:35:03 so did the acceleration get working on the gnex, or is that going to be a horrible experience? Oct 04 18:35:24 it's working but segfaulting sometimes Oct 04 18:35:32 directly after boot it works Oct 04 18:36:01 probably some wakelock interaction you need to tend to Oct 04 18:36:44 it's practically a new area of linux porting research, a mix of old glibc systems, android power management, non-x11 interfaces.. Oct 04 18:36:47 :P Oct 04 18:45:40 Are these useful at all for getting the VZW GNex up and running? https://developers.google.com/android/nexus/drivers#torojro03r Oct 04 18:46:12 the drivers are theoretically doable, if libhybris can do that Oct 04 18:46:23 but what to you get to talk to the drivers? Oct 04 18:46:35 The Driver Whisperer Oct 04 18:46:36 we were discussing the Nexus7 the other day, and its DRM layer. There are DRM drivers for it there. Oct 04 18:48:20 libhybris may be able to do that also, so DRM drivers aren't the main concern Oct 04 18:48:51 i'm not familiar with libhybris. Oct 04 18:49:29 Stskeeps, a *true* mashup Oct 04 18:49:45 a veritable Smorgasbord. Oct 04 18:50:17 HaDAk|: it's a new invention that allows non-android systems to use android hardware adaptation Oct 04 18:50:29 HaDAk|: through utilizing the android linker as a libdl implementation Oct 04 18:52:19 aka "here be dragons" Oct 04 18:52:46 yep, dragons for sure Oct 04 18:52:52 and fire Oct 04 18:52:57 and Smoke Oct 04 18:52:58 but surprisingily interesting dragons Oct 04 18:52:59 huh. Oct 04 18:53:14 Stskeeps, +1 Oct 04 18:53:18 +2 Oct 04 18:53:26 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hvRP3rcF9o , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb3Jz-lAGK4 Oct 04 18:53:44 glibc based system, using unmodified egl/gles apps on top of android gpu drivers Oct 04 18:59:23 smorgasbord. i want food. Oct 04 19:03:50 * EricBlade fires off the 8 millionth "make webos-image" this week, then goes to hunt some food Oct 04 19:48:15 did I see a rrix? Oct 04 19:48:29 * rrix hides behind EricBlade Oct 04 19:48:30 hi ka6sox Oct 04 19:48:34 how are you? Oct 04 19:48:43 i think tired Oct 04 19:48:48 Story of my life Oct 04 19:49:01 yup Oct 04 19:49:04 rrix: you can't hide behind me, i'm skinny Oct 04 19:49:42 he he Oct 04 19:50:25 hows it goin guys? Oct 04 19:50:30 EricBlade: I'm not too thick myself, I think this will work Oct 04 19:51:30 I am thicker than I used to be Oct 04 19:55:22 * ShiftyAxel is as fit as a sysadmin Oct 04 20:11:42 morning Oct 04 20:14:25 morning warzon_ Oct 04 20:17:49 i see that you released sources without accelerated graphics support? we are working on it too, luna-sysmgr not correctly draws. ( no text, pictures, black surface with white cubes) did you have the same affect? Oct 04 20:18:41 i mean using hybris Oct 04 20:19:05 there are issues with this... Oct 04 20:19:17 warzon_: the GNex HW accell is working Oct 04 20:19:20 we know but we push out so that others can "play" and help fix. Oct 04 20:19:22 just not with cards open Oct 04 20:19:32 cards = tasks, btw? Oct 04 20:19:32 I think it's something to do with the webkit rendering Oct 04 20:19:44 Stskeeps, yup Oct 04 20:19:47 cards = cards, webOS apps being run under OWO..? Oct 04 20:19:55 yeah, sorry Oct 04 20:20:05 i think you may need to implement some buffer sharing with libhybris Oct 04 20:20:09 i'll do that with wayland myself Oct 04 20:20:09 :P Oct 04 20:20:57 Where's the current code/makefile/whatever that generates an IPK of LunaCE? I'd like to try doing some porting. Oct 04 20:22:11 whoever's familiar with the gnex stuff -- does whatever's being used for a driver provide accelerated fb0 -and- fb1 ? Oct 04 20:24:04 KyleMaas1, porting and LunaCE are not the same thing... Oct 04 20:25:48 why the hell is my pc at home reconnecting? Oct 04 20:31:20 because i threw a rock at it Oct 04 20:45:31 well apparently you hit our youngest child,s he came home with a broken lip Oct 04 20:49:40 ShiftyAxel: your luna-sysmgr top and bottom bar draws correctly ? Oct 04 20:50:08 scoutcamper: Understood. I'd like to try porting it to my Pre 2. Oct 04 20:50:48 For full system porting, I'd base it off of OWO-LSM instead. Oct 04 20:51:12 warzon_: what's the problem with yours? Oct 04 20:51:41 my desktop-build was acting funny the other day, but I thought it was a local problem Oct 04 20:52:13 KyleMaas1: you may want to explore the document about LunaCE on Pre 3 on the wiki, although I was trying that solely with binary substitution at the time, now we have a lot more source code Oct 04 20:52:43 ShiftyAxel: no text, pictures, black surface with white cubes when luna-sysmgr is starting with HW graphics acceleration. I only want to understand , because i have no GNex to try Oct 04 20:52:57 EricBlade_: Do you have a link? Oct 04 20:53:23 KyleMaas1: https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=webos-ports+lunace+on+pre3&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 Oct 04 20:53:40 warzon_: I'm afraid I have no clue Oct 04 20:53:57 My thinking is that, pardon the apostrophes, I've got a bunch of Pre's and Pre 2's sitting around, and I'd love for them to get some updated software. Oct 04 20:54:24 KyleMaas1, github.com/woce/woce-build is currently how we produce released binaried Oct 04 20:54:24 morphis: are you here? Oct 04 20:54:27 warzon_: i'm not a rendering, hardware, or graphics guru, but, it sounds like incorrect graphics mode setup Oct 04 20:54:28 binaries* Oct 04 20:54:39 EricBlade_: Awesome. Thanks! Oct 04 20:55:19 KyleMaas1, see woce-be on the wiki for supported build env for lunace Oct 04 20:59:39 Actually, with a GLES lib, maybe a slight nyx adaptation and a quite standard kernel + glibc stack, that's quite all that is needed to make owebos work... Oct 04 21:00:31 ah, yes, java, oops :) Oct 04 21:00:43 do we have anything other than Gnex and Prime yet? also, has Prime progressed any farther? Oct 04 21:01:00 I believe Nexus S Oct 04 21:01:12 stroughtonsmith tweeted about that one Oct 04 21:02:31 oh, the Prime is "working" ? Oct 04 21:03:32 I was on the way to try it on my IconiaTab A500 tablet, which is a Tegra2 device, not so far from the Prime I think Oct 04 21:03:32 * EricBlade_ cheers for chejlava's arrival Oct 04 21:04:47 (the hard point being to get a recompiled recent kernel and the corresponding GLES driver from NVidia working...) Oct 04 21:05:29 why don't regexes work correctly in Solaris awk? T_T Oct 04 21:05:54 because Solaris Oct 04 21:22:50 hi chejlava Oct 04 21:23:51 here's something a normal IPKG package feed can't do... Oct 04 21:23:51 http://ipkgapi.cryptkcoding.com:8081/release/armv7 Oct 04 21:24:13 it's becoming a full on feed browser ;) Oct 04 21:25:02 cryptk: winner! :D Oct 04 21:25:08 hehe ;) Oct 04 21:26:05 it's ugly for now, but I am going for function first Oct 04 21:26:10 Hey ka6sox - I think I'm finally connected correctly Oct 04 21:27:16 yup... Oct 04 21:29:43 did you read the docs? Oct 04 21:30:02 currently I'm looking at your latest instructions - I've also started following _our_ instructions on how to do a port (the "porting_guide" at openwebosproject.org) Oct 04 21:30:22 hey chejlava Oct 04 21:30:59 Hey Oct 04 21:31:29 Okay, compilation from panda-z on x64 Archlinux went like a charm. Now I'll get some sleep. Cya ! Oct 04 21:31:56 chejlava, I am working so anyone here can answer about things. Oct 04 21:32:15 Thanks - will post any questions when I run into them Oct 04 21:32:15 chejlava: sorry didn't get back to you earlier about instructions, been dealing with midterms (tis Patrick Roberts) Oct 04 21:33:22 Not a problem... I also have an issue with TouchPads not charging. something like 60% of the returns are likely due to a6 firmware issues, and I'm the closest thing to an "expert" left here. [now THAT is scary!] Oct 04 21:36:38 chejlava: i can operate a screwdriver! Oct 04 21:37:59 folks Oct 04 21:38:46 GodGinrai: make sure you're calling the correct awk that you want? Oct 04 21:39:35 I tried awk, xpg4 awk, and nawk Oct 04 21:39:55 and none of them would make the whitespace correctly :( Oct 04 21:41:11 is there an xpg6 awk? how about a ucb awk, or a .... Oct 04 21:41:31 * dwc- has no sun boxes online at the moment Oct 04 21:41:57 oh, I'm probably forgetting sfw Oct 04 21:42:14 awk regex are like egrep's? (hah! which egrep?) Oct 04 21:46:50 I have tried \s*, [[:space:]], and [] with all whitespace chars in it Oct 04 21:47:33 to match /\)\s*\{/ Oct 04 21:47:41 and nothing works :( Oct 04 21:48:48 I'm now trying to figure out how to write my script for sed because Solaris hates awk Oct 04 21:53:59 Solaris. Oct 04 21:55:57 Hey Eric, I don't have a choice on the boxes my job uses Oct 04 21:56:12 or the OS they run Oct 04 21:56:57 i dunno i remember SunOS being the sought after systems for building software on back in the day Oct 04 21:57:16 so i really don't know what i'm talking about, i have only tried to use Solaris once or twice since it was SunOS Oct 04 21:58:22 Let's put it this way, it isn't too bad for day-to-day stuff, but it's awk is :( Oct 04 21:58:39 I wish we had gawk Oct 04 22:00:01 g2g, leaving work Oct 04 22:00:10 cya Oct 04 22:03:42 to all the people hammering that link, not everything works yet ;) Oct 04 22:10:50 chejlava, any luck? Oct 04 22:11:01 brb Oct 04 22:12:12 well, with a couple of minor oopses (need to cd to webos-ports for the make update, then back down to webos-ports/webos-ports for the build) it is churning away happily...... I'm expecting that the full build will take at _least_ an hour more Oct 04 22:12:36 I left out the part about the build instructions being excellent! Oct 04 22:13:48 chejlava, kewl...but you better be prepared for something more like 8pm tonight...or later Oct 04 22:14:26 that's what I really expected.... but I was being hopeful! (and I did weasel-word it as "at least"...) Oct 04 22:29:09 ok, guys, say i've got webos running in an emulator .. how the heck do i talk to it? ssh? serial terminal? something? Oct 04 22:30:41 nvm i see the directions Oct 04 22:45:25 ka6sox: I was oopsed: I had a script called 'bb' in my home dir that was what was actually (sort-of) running the 'bb webos-image' command. Now that I've gotten rid of that I can't find anything that resembles 'bb' to run. Oct 04 22:46:01 I tried running ./bitbake/bin/bitbake and that wasn't happy. Then I tried installing bitbake. no joy there, either. any hints? Oct 04 23:34:33 ka6sox: nevermind - I found it (or tripped on it, actually... since it is set by the setup-env script). No idea why it _wasn't_ working for a while... Oct 04 23:47:37 * EricBlade cries as he enters "./build-webos-desktop clean" and is waylaid for a few hrs Oct 04 23:55:48 EricBlade, its okay... Oct 04 23:56:15 so i'm trying to find an error in the clock Oct 04 23:56:23 and i change something and the clock gets all weird Oct 04 23:56:35 and then after i change it back, it doesn't go back to normal Oct 04 23:56:43 at which point i discover that all my fonts are completely borked Oct 04 23:59:33 * ka6sox hands EricBlade a hanky.. Oct 05 00:17:21 morning lagoldste Oct 05 00:19:01 mr0n, ka6sox Oct 05 00:19:17 (weird spellings inherited from another irc server) Oct 05 00:20:47 :) Oct 05 00:21:00 chejlava, how is your build going? Oct 05 00:21:19 k: just failed trying to download git://github.com/shr-distribution/linux.git..... Oct 05 00:21:20 EricBlade, did every font change? Oct 05 00:21:47 what are folks working on today? Oct 05 00:21:57 builds for Google Nexus Oct 05 00:22:03 we pushed out the code Oct 05 00:22:10 right Oct 05 00:22:28 anyone still working on lunaCE, or is that on hiatus atm? Oct 05 00:22:33 ka6sox: yeah, they -all- broke Oct 05 00:23:13 hiatus as we need to sort out some Luna issues with OW Oct 05 00:23:24 *nod* Oct 05 00:23:37 and the last bug you found is a show stopper (validated as REAL and nasty) Oct 05 00:23:51 oo Oct 05 00:24:12 ....? Oct 05 00:24:29 thats why we test before just throwing it over the wall. Oct 05 00:24:52 heh. i'm not remembering. i'd need to check the issues list Oct 05 00:25:11 though i do remember that yes, whatever it was is a show stopper Oct 05 00:25:16 the wave turns on and off with pixel mask mod Oct 05 00:25:23 righttt Oct 05 00:25:36 brane bugz Oct 05 00:25:50 Dane Bramage Oct 05 00:25:59 that too Oct 05 00:26:11 probably from insufficient c0ff33 Oct 05 00:29:29 chejlava, I need to find out why we aren't using our own linux.git Oct 05 00:30:07 chejlava, reach over the wall and ask eblade if he can give it to you. Oct 05 00:30:30 s/reach/peek/ Oct 05 00:30:30 ka6sox meant: chejlava, peek over the wall and ask eblade if he can give it to you. Oct 05 00:31:47 Ah, if we only _had_ walls..... sigh Oct 05 00:35:37 oh ya...Les Nessman walls. Oct 05 00:36:36 chejlava, I can't fix that server unfortunately Oct 05 00:36:53 check to see if sources.webos-ports.org has what you need Oct 05 00:37:09 * halfhalo yawns Oct 05 00:37:13 wait what am i giving? Oct 05 00:37:36 git://github.com/shr-distribution/linux.git Oct 05 00:37:58 I'll be half has it. Oct 05 00:38:26 what do I have? Oct 05 00:38:44 laptop woke up walking to car after class and dropped me from channels Oct 05 00:38:52 no idea whats going on Oct 05 00:39:02 Which... is about normal Oct 05 00:39:17 stupid IRC client Oct 05 00:39:43 looking for git://github.com/shr-distribution/linux.git Oct 05 00:39:43 oi, leave my pretty out of it. Oct 05 00:39:55 pretty awful Oct 05 00:40:21 what about that git repo? Oct 05 00:40:27 chejlava: are you having problems? Oct 05 00:40:42 http://sources.webos-ports.org/openwebos-ports/git2_github.com.shr-distribution.linux.git.tar.gz is downloading right now Oct 05 00:40:50 okay good Oct 05 00:40:58 so we do have that as a backup...good Oct 05 00:41:08 now the download of freesmartphone,...utilities is failing Oct 05 00:41:11 JaMa +1 Oct 05 00:41:45 ~coffee lagoldste Oct 05 00:41:57 bot is AWOL Oct 05 00:43:10 i blame palm firewall for any issues. Oct 05 00:43:57 yeah - that doesn't help... or our "blazing" fast shared-with-10-neighbors DLS line..... Oct 05 00:44:40 are you onsite doing this? Oct 05 00:44:54 he would do better @ the Bar Oct 05 00:45:40 "onsite" meaning at my beautiful new "table"? yup Oct 05 00:47:24 hah. use the mirror then Oct 05 00:47:49 "the mirror"??? In the bathroom?? Oct 05 00:51:10 . o O {...the door is locked just you and me...} Oct 05 00:53:16 sigh... Oct 05 00:53:24 ribbet Oct 05 00:53:25 the local mirror in the building. Oct 05 00:54:51 well after a complete rebuild my fonts are still completely trashed Oct 05 00:54:57 what on earth Oct 05 00:57:02 ...did you mess up your fonts? Oct 05 01:00:35 i don't think so Oct 05 01:06:58 ka6sox: repeatedly failing on the freesmartphone downloads. Any tricks to get the needed files? It doens't want to let me git anything from git.freesmartphone.org - not even the "git clone git://git.freesmartphone.org/specs " that they show on one of their pages.... Oct 05 01:11:19 is it in our sources? Oct 05 01:12:17 just the line showing a ".done" at the end of it with a size of zero Oct 05 02:16:35 ka6sox: Iyad has concluded that the freesmartphone git server is borked, so I think I'll just set up a job to restart the build every 1/2 hour or so in case someone kicks the server awake... **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Oct 05 02:59:57 2012