**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Oct 05 02:59:58 2012 Oct 05 05:47:31 anyone have a ZaTab from ZaReason yet? Oct 05 05:47:45 looks like it's completely open except the graphics driver Oct 05 05:47:51 and even that's a work in progress Oct 05 06:08:08 tidux, URL? Oct 05 06:12:17 anyone home? Oct 05 06:14:28 ka6sox? cryptk? Oct 05 06:14:35 I'm here Oct 05 06:14:46 it's a slow night in -portslandia Oct 05 06:15:07 folks Oct 05 06:15:24 i see...hey Silvio is online, gonna ask him to come in for a few mins Oct 05 06:16:51 I am here... Oct 05 06:17:09 howdy Oct 05 06:18:30 morning Oct 05 06:18:54 somewhere might be Oct 05 06:19:17 guys - Silvio is the one I was mentioning last night...he's leading the porting effort right now Oct 05 06:19:21 quiet here :) Oct 05 06:19:50 * silvioster is blushing.. Oct 05 06:19:53 for most developers it is after midnight. Oct 05 06:20:09 true, ka6sox and I are the "night owls" Oct 05 06:20:18 allright, morning is indeed after midnight ;) Oct 05 06:20:44 that seems to always be when I get most stuff done...less distractions Oct 05 06:21:46 ~ugt Oct 05 06:21:46 [ugt] Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html Oct 05 06:21:50 anyway, you probably wanted to talk about hardware acceleration. the plan for now is to test custom sdl apps using android ndk wrappers, which then could take a webos sdl app payload Oct 05 06:22:31 with qt, same thing. using necessitas for the libs, running webos stuff wrapped in android ndk Oct 05 06:22:36 3 layers of abstraction? Oct 05 06:23:02 whatever amount of layers of abstraction. Oct 05 06:23:25 if it works, can remove the wrappers. android is open source after all Oct 05 06:23:37 some of it.. Oct 05 06:23:37 point is to use android-targeted qt and sdl libs Oct 05 06:23:44 ok Oct 05 06:24:00 enough of it to remove ndk java parts hopefully Oct 05 06:24:33 'java is the opposite of "snappy" Oct 05 06:24:38 that's correct Oct 05 06:25:08 but running ndk, you only use java to "get stuff going". it then transfers to jni parts which use native code/libs. Oct 05 06:26:05 ok Oct 05 06:27:29 do you have a build of sysmgr with minimal dependencies that you use for porting btw? or you're using the standard versions? Oct 05 06:27:58 no use going with something stripped down when we need it all. Oct 05 06:28:10 allright Oct 05 06:28:59 the Qt libs that HP is using for the Webkit and LunaSysMgr stuff are very fussy... Oct 05 06:29:08 fussy to build...fussy to run. Oct 05 06:29:15 they're complete crap Oct 05 06:29:26 and they changed build props between beta and 1.0.. Oct 05 06:29:36 necessitas qt is the way to go, at least on android Oct 05 06:30:05 okay so you are going to basically build a webOS compatibility layer on top of Android. Oct 05 06:30:28 well, if you call using android-specific qt/sdl libs a compatibility layer, sure :) Oct 05 06:30:35 the ndk glue should be minimal Oct 05 06:30:54 basically for letting surfaceflinger know to yield the screen etc.. Oct 05 06:31:12 so do you plan to use a OE rootfs or a modified Android rootfs? Oct 05 06:31:32 no, the plan is to get webos in a minimal file package Oct 05 06:31:44 that is installable on standard android Oct 05 06:31:48 what is "minimum file package" Oct 05 06:32:05 okay so webOS is a "package" for Android....got it Oct 05 06:32:05 minimum file package is the bare minimum changes needed to support some basic functionality Oct 05 06:32:30 sounds interesting Oct 05 06:32:36 that would be the best way, at least from user standpoint Oct 05 06:32:55 install "webos" from google play, run and you have luna with native apps, enyo/mojo and so on Oct 05 06:33:15 you want a phone - you're back to android ui, with webos running in a separate thread Oct 05 06:33:23 how are you going to resolve the bionic/glibc issues Oct 05 06:34:10 nothing to resolve. the webos binaries already try to find libs in nonstandard locations. put the webos-specific libs there and they'll take precedence over system-wide android ones Oct 05 06:34:23 if they don't - LD_PRELOAD whatever is needed Oct 05 06:34:39 or chroot when running the "webos" app Oct 05 06:34:42 so webos is a "app" Oct 05 06:34:45 thats a full-blown hack of the whole system ... nothing less, nothing more Oct 05 06:34:53 it's an app from android pov Oct 05 06:35:00 silvioster: and you wont get this accepted in google play ever Oct 05 06:35:02 when you run it though, you can kill android's services Oct 05 06:35:18 morphis: that's not the point probably anyway, ask matt about that Oct 05 06:35:30 google play store was given as an example :) Oct 05 06:35:56 ok Oct 05 06:36:13 the webos system as a lot dependencies you can just take luna-sysmgr and put it elsewhere Oct 05 06:36:33 morphis: you forgot " 'n " somewhere? Oct 05 06:36:44 yes Oct 05 06:36:45 or 't.. Oct 05 06:36:47 :) Oct 05 06:36:50 s/can just/can't just/ Oct 05 06:36:51 :) Oct 05 06:37:25 not really. some of dependencies are not critical. starting with basic functionality, think it can be boiled down to a manageable amount Oct 05 06:37:33 silvioster, so you would be better off to take the viewpoint that the desktop build has Oct 05 06:37:37 but, especially if you chroot, it won't really metter.. Oct 05 06:37:43 ka6sox: that's eactly true Oct 05 06:37:49 think the oe-based version is madness Oct 05 06:37:59 silvioster: why that? Oct 05 06:38:05 especially after trying to compile the 1.0 version, and tinkering with their webkit/qt builds Oct 05 06:38:41 silvioster, don't use HP's legacy libs and throw the baby out with the bathwater.. Oct 05 06:38:47 because the HP people seem to have no comprehension about OE build process, or they don't have time to work on it... in any case, it's crazy.. Oct 05 06:39:06 ka6sox: in the end, everything except the desktop build is just stuff to get to desktop Oct 05 06:39:14 after that, both builds should function the same Oct 05 06:39:19 so why deal with all the OE cruft? Oct 05 06:39:21 silvioster: whats the problem with building qt4/webkit in OE? Oct 05 06:39:27 especially since the device already runs android Oct 05 06:39:48 hey...don't be too hard on HP...don't want them to stop taking our calls :) Oct 05 06:40:21 morphis: let's just say there are different opinions about the quality of the build scripts Oct 05 06:40:26 heh Oct 05 06:40:39 maybe they're working on something more important than build scripts, and that's the reason Oct 05 06:40:41 silvioster: yes, I am not fine with some build scripts too Oct 05 06:40:46 for example, build scripts for actual architectures :) Oct 05 06:41:00 but you have to respect the timeframe they had to get this out to the public Oct 05 06:41:07 silvioster, that was a strategic decision to make the timeframe Oct 05 06:41:34 silvioster: and if you know the business you can't just release things which you got under some contract points which aren't allow public release Oct 05 06:42:01 * silvioster is not trying to offend anyone here :) Oct 05 06:42:08 silvioster, are you planning on building this with AOSP? Oct 05 06:42:23 and the SDL/SDK? Oct 05 06:42:30 ka6sox: hopefully it should be compatible with any android distro after some point Oct 05 06:42:41 until they change it out from under you. Oct 05 06:42:45 so won't care about android version, other than support from necessitas etc Oct 05 06:42:51 true.. :) Oct 05 06:43:05 you have NO control over upstream. Oct 05 06:43:29 for now, whatever minimal version necessitas/sdl supports to get opengl good enough for webos would be the minimal version Oct 05 06:44:20 silvioster, what tools are you going to use to make this? Oct 05 06:44:54 linux shell for getting basic sdl apps and sysmgr running w/o acceleration Oct 05 06:45:06 ndk for getting necessitas apps and then sysmgr to run Oct 05 06:45:17 ndk for getting sdl testapps and then webos natives to run Oct 05 06:45:42 and will see then :) Oct 05 06:46:17 but whoever wants to do it first - go on, take the prize ;) Oct 05 06:46:24 if there is one.. Oct 05 06:46:25 is there? Oct 05 06:46:32 so essentially you are creating a webOS emulator that runs in an Android Environment... Oct 05 06:46:56 it's not really an emulator. it's the webos binary running on linux. the way Palm intended it Oct 05 06:47:40 what is used to do the process of preparing that binary execution doesn't matter after binary is running, as it's running directly, without middleware layers. Oct 05 06:47:59 well, qt/sdl are middleware layers, but meaning without dalvik etc. Oct 05 06:51:00 this is radically different than what HP envisions. Oct 05 06:51:09 what does hp envision? Oct 05 06:51:18 what they have shipped Oct 05 06:51:27 and using OE Oct 05 06:51:34 you mean emulator-based ? :) Oct 05 06:51:54 most hardware manufacturers have their devices android-ready Oct 05 06:52:02 with hardware acceleration etc Oct 05 06:52:06 why not ride that? Oct 05 06:52:08 silvioster, build-desktop != emulator Oct 05 06:52:25 if that is what you are referring to Oct 05 06:52:35 cryptk: if you got build-desktop running with hardware acceleration on a mobile, do share (no offense) Oct 05 06:52:39 and neither does an OE build of OWO Oct 05 06:52:46 what he is building is more akin to the emulator than the desktop build Oct 05 06:53:02 the oe build of owo is built for an emulator, and quite a rush job at it... Oct 05 06:53:02 silvioster: OE isn't only about emulators just as they are supporting only qemu Oct 05 06:53:18 silvioster: we're using it with completely different machine definition Oct 05 06:53:21 for a real device Oct 05 06:53:25 and it's working Oct 05 06:53:35 morphis: they're about emulators because there is no way to get hardware acceleration in there Oct 05 06:53:37 actually 3 different devices have been shown. Oct 05 06:54:01 silvioster, they are doing emulators as they don't have IDENTIFIABLE hardware... Oct 05 06:54:05 hardware acceleration would require device specific information now wouldn't it silvioster Oct 05 06:54:07 even the video hp showed on their 1.0 release blog had catastrophic performance on the screen Oct 05 06:54:08 hey ka6sox Oct 05 06:54:21 ka6sox: please don't take offense :) Oct 05 06:54:25 also, no offense meant for hp Oct 05 06:54:34 they're doing a good job cleaning up stuff and releasing it, after all Oct 05 06:54:42 silvioster, do you expect them to ship OWO with machine definitions for every board made by every manufacturer? Oct 05 06:54:52 wait please. Oct 05 06:55:02 cryptk: that wouldn't help with hardware acceleration anyway Oct 05 06:55:11 silvioster: if you mean the galaxy nexus, it has hardware acceleration Oct 05 06:55:18 morphis: with oe build? Oct 05 06:55:19 and luna-sysmgr is working fine with it Oct 05 06:55:22 silvioster: yes Oct 05 06:55:31 oh that's nice. opengl and stuff? Oct 05 06:55:35 yes Oct 05 06:55:39 full egl/gles/... Oct 05 06:55:51 didn't know that. that solves it then. scrap the necessitas/etc layers Oct 05 06:56:00 you have a build rom to try? Oct 05 06:56:06 ROMZ!!!! Oct 05 06:56:09 silvioster: thats nothing HP will provide Oct 05 06:56:28 they are just targetting emulators and don't need to interface with real hardware yet Oct 05 06:56:32 silvioster, we don't make ROMZ Oct 05 06:56:37 morphis: you said it works with acceleration, did you see it working? Oct 05 06:56:50 ka6sox: what do you make? :) and who is you? Oct 05 06:56:50 silvioster: I did the work to get it working Oct 05 06:56:56 so yes, I saw and see it working :D Oct 05 06:56:59 morphis: you have it working already? Oct 05 06:57:09 silvioster, that is what he just said ;) Oct 05 06:57:09 thats what I said Oct 05 06:57:19 morphis: so, what are the steps to make it working? or if you have some kind of binary distribution, where is it located? Oct 05 06:57:28 Silvio, ka6sox is Tom Oct 05 06:57:35 silvioster, this is pre-alpha Oct 05 06:57:36 ther are NO ROMZ Oct 05 06:57:49 ka6sox: who cares about greek letters :) where do you get it? Oct 05 06:57:54 :) Oct 05 06:57:59 do you have steps for compiling it? build machine definitions? Oct 05 06:58:01 you BUILD it Oct 05 06:58:03 follow our build instructions Oct 05 06:58:21 it's OE based, you know? Oct 05 06:58:27 morphis: can you make a youtube video to see it work please? really, with hardware acceleration? Oct 05 06:58:36 * silvioster is delighted! :) Oct 05 06:58:49 no time right now but later Oct 05 06:59:17 only see screenshots of the main screen on your webpage Oct 05 06:59:20 silvioster: just take a look at this: https://github.com/webOS-ports/meta-smartphone/commits/webOS-ports/master Oct 05 06:59:20 have other screenshots? Oct 05 06:59:22 what works? Oct 05 06:59:31 silvioster: what does a screenshot say about hardware acceleration? Oct 05 07:00:06 morphis: it says something about working touchscreen to get to other screens :) Oct 05 07:00:18 silvioster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb3Jz-lAGK4 is non-webos stack but same technology, on android gpu drivers, without using android Oct 05 07:00:26 is it libhybris? Oct 05 07:00:30 panda-z: yes Oct 05 07:00:46 silvioster: look at Stskeeps videos it's the same technology Oct 05 07:00:50 oh cool Oct 05 07:00:55 didn't know about libhybris Oct 05 07:01:06 no need for ndk based launchers then Oct 05 07:01:11 you were so set on your way we couldn't really explain it Oct 05 07:01:20 luna-sysmgr works but it's not supported from HP to use it with GLES/EGL yet so it's hard work to get it fully working Oct 05 07:01:59 morphis: what do you mean, not supported? it tests for GL right away and tries to use it Oct 05 07:02:15 silvioster, do you want to hear aobut how we are doing this? Oct 05 07:02:17 morphis: did you get it working? Oct 05 07:02:24 yup, go on Oct 05 07:02:47 just to understand beforehand: you have RIGHT NOW hardware-accelerated GL-based sysmgr with touch input working ? Oct 05 07:02:47 (step in Stskeeps if I mess this up) Oct 05 07:02:55 YES Oct 05 07:03:00 cool Oct 05 07:03:19 but it is not quite stable like we would hope. Oct 05 07:03:24 :) sry for interrupting, plz continue Oct 05 07:03:26 its pre-alpha Oct 05 07:03:39 alpha is the first letter though.. ;) Oct 05 07:03:53 sigh Oct 05 07:04:03 do you know what alpha code is? Oct 05 07:04:05 and Beta? Oct 05 07:04:41 yes Oct 05 07:04:42 this is alpha..."Guaranteed to break your device permanentaly Oct 05 07:04:45 " Oct 05 07:04:47 whatever you decide to call it Oct 05 07:05:03 ... Oct 05 07:05:11 really?... "Guaranteed"?... :) Oct 05 07:05:22 anyway, please disregard the meta discussions about greeks Oct 05 07:05:22 about as close to it as you can get without using a hammer Oct 05 07:05:36 Android Kernel Oct 05 07:06:04 LibHybris + modified glibc (android) Oct 05 07:06:12 sorry Oct 05 07:06:18 not glibc Oct 05 07:06:28 Stskeeps, you know this better Oct 05 07:06:40 (its his project) Oct 05 07:06:41 ok ok :P Oct 05 07:07:02 we use standard glibc, libhybris and a modified android bionic. libhybris functions as a handy libdl like dlopen implementation Oct 05 07:07:10 so we can dlopen android libraries, like libEGL/libGLES Oct 05 07:07:57 yes, thought of making something like that before, but thought it would be more complicated than using necessitas/etc Oct 05 07:08:08 turns out it's not Oct 05 07:08:09 :P Oct 05 07:08:11 apparently it's already done, and exists for a long time ;) Oct 05 07:08:14 kudos Oct 05 07:08:58 libhybris isn't done Oct 05 07:09:03 ah Oct 05 07:09:14 it's a prototype, but its working quite fine already Oct 05 07:09:17 bugs/random problems? Oct 05 07:09:31 pre-alpha remember Oct 05 07:09:41 yes bugs and random problems Oct 05 07:09:43 cryptk: you with your greek love! :) Oct 05 07:09:57 if there were no bugs, there would be end users running it on their GNex phones Oct 05 07:10:09 if the development goes on here, can try help troubleshoot Oct 05 07:10:14 silvioster: remember HP doesn't supports accelerated mode throught GLES/EGL yet Oct 05 07:10:28 cryptk: if the oe build was more stable/sane that would be much more probable :) Oct 05 07:10:36 morphis: what doy ou mean by that? Oct 05 07:10:47 morphis: support in what? sysmgr? Oct 05 07:10:50 yes Oct 05 07:10:58 you have to configure it to use opengl Oct 05 07:11:00 morphis: so you use a patched sysmgr to do accelerations? Oct 05 07:11:07 yes, saw flags in makefile for that Oct 05 07:11:09 opengl isn't on the gnex Oct 05 07:11:10 I just enabled the configure option Oct 05 07:11:13 silvioster, do you mean to say that it is HP's fault that we cannot just say "OE build webos for device X" and have a fully working install? Oct 05 07:11:53 cryptk: kinda YES :) was under impression that it IS legal to distribute binaries of open source projects compiled if you provide source to that Oct 05 07:12:11 so why the problem with binaries? Oct 05 07:12:24 because we don't have binaries built Oct 05 07:12:35 cryptk: but you do, morphis runs one of those on his phone Oct 05 07:12:48 if we release binaries of a pre-alpha setup (and don't you dare mention greek again) then people will run it, and their phones will break Oct 05 07:12:52 just tar the rootfs, compress it nicely and release Oct 05 07:12:57 we released build instructions Oct 05 07:13:18 if someone has the knowledge to follow them, they are demonstrating intent by doing that Oct 05 07:13:25 cryptk: people install non-working android roms all the time Oct 05 07:13:35 cryptk: it is very hard to kill an android phone Oct 05 07:13:43 and it wil be REALLY hard to do that from userspace Oct 05 07:13:56 silvioster: thats our policy Oct 05 07:14:03 cryptk: given a well-built rootfs that can be run from a chroot, there's nothing that could go wrong Oct 05 07:14:07 people who want can compile the rootfs on their own Oct 05 07:14:07 silvioster, I understand this, that still doesn't mean that we should release binaries of a possibly dangerous setup Oct 05 07:14:09 it's easy Oct 05 07:14:16 silvioster, webos-ports will NOT release any binaries that we know will absolutely brick a device unless extraordinary care is taken... Oct 05 07:14:18 morphis: do you compile on 64bit machines? Oct 05 07:14:27 silvioster: OE produces a simple ext2 image you can put on the device Oct 05 07:14:30 silvioster: yes Oct 05 07:14:32 ka6sox: you know that will absolutely brick device? by what way? Oct 05 07:14:44 morphis: yes, why not release that? Oct 05 07:15:00 morphis: or better, make an archive that can be chrooted into Oct 05 07:15:02 silvioster, why not release what? our 64 bit system? Oct 05 07:15:15 cryptk: why not release the ext2 rootfs of the webos port Oct 05 07:15:21 we will not Oct 05 07:15:26 have you not been reading? Oct 05 07:15:28 not now Oct 05 07:15:33 that's a very comprehensive answer :) Oct 05 07:15:48 it is a setup that has a distinct problem of breaking a phone, setting your house on fire, and knocking over tall buildings Oct 05 07:15:50 cryptk: reading what? there's no chance of bricking the device if you use through chroot :) Oct 05 07:16:01 you have been ignoring our reasoning and I am telling you that we will not release a pre-alpha binary. Oct 05 07:16:09 silvioster, and you may use it through chroot, but others who are less knowledgeable may not Oct 05 07:16:13 ka6sox: as you say :) Oct 05 07:16:25 cryptk: then add instructions to those that want to use it Oct 05 07:16:42 if they see a "simple" way through chroot, and a "hard" way through self-compile... they'll chose the simple.. Oct 05 07:16:43 :) Oct 05 07:16:44 silvioster, if you want it, you can have it, follow the build instructions and you have it Oct 05 07:16:46 it is teh policy of this project to not release pre-alpha binaries Oct 05 07:16:52 cryptk: already got that, thanks :) Oct 05 07:17:10 then stop asking for binaries of a pre-alpha product and go build it! Oct 05 07:17:18 ka6sox: ok, ok. not trying to eat your policy now ;) Oct 05 07:17:28 cryptk: there's no letter before alpha ! :) Oct 05 07:17:37 ka6sox: does it build on 64bit host machines? Oct 05 07:17:37 you are coming across as gimme gimme gimme Oct 05 07:17:40 exactly Oct 05 07:17:58 we release alpha things, we do not release things that haven't even made it that far yet Oct 05 07:18:00 ka6sox: well, you advertised something, and asking why not distribute binaries Oct 05 07:18:22 cryptk: running full sysmgr with hardware acceleration and touch support is not "far" for you ? :) Oct 05 07:18:22 anyways....let's not flog a dead horse here... Oct 05 07:18:24 we did not advertise anything other than source and directions Oct 05 07:18:27 heh Oct 05 07:18:29 anyway Oct 05 07:18:31 consider what we have a "proof of concept" if it will satisfy your itch Oct 05 07:18:35 great to see so much progress Oct 05 07:18:44 they have their policies, and good reasons behind them Oct 05 07:18:52 so lets leave it at that Oct 05 07:18:53 will try compiling the build you have and report if succeed ;) Oct 05 07:18:57 silvioster, you come in here accusing us of 'advertising' something... Oct 05 07:19:06 oh no.. Oct 05 07:19:16 the advertisement is for directions (partial) and source Oct 05 07:19:27 ka6sox: taken morphis "running full sysmgr hardware acceleration" as advertisement ;) Oct 05 07:19:34 ok cool Oct 05 07:19:34 it is not Oct 05 07:19:56 that was a fact statement, not an advertisement Oct 05 07:20:34 anyway, gonna set up compilation now, will let know if have any bugreports to the instructions ;) Oct 05 07:20:48 thank you Oct 05 07:20:54 much appreciated Oct 05 07:21:20 silvioster: hope it helps you to take a decision on how to move forward :) Oct 05 07:21:38 morphis: well, seems like the necessitas/sdl doesn't make much sense now does it Oct 05 07:21:50 unless you have doubts about getting hybris fully functional Oct 05 07:22:00 although can't see many impediments to that really Oct 05 07:22:01 Stskeeps, thanks for stepping in and providing clarity! Oct 05 07:22:20 stskeeps: again, kudos on a great wrapper libs Oct 05 07:22:38 *-a Oct 05 07:24:05 just to sum up, is this the way HP envisions it? Oct 05 07:24:09 hybris? Oct 05 07:24:17 not exactly Oct 05 07:24:19 or they have some other way forward? Oct 05 07:24:25 other than necessitas/hybris/etc Oct 05 07:24:57 they are like Mer project...expecting OEM/ODM to do the heavy lifting of solving the Hardware Driver issue. Oct 05 07:25:08 mer very clearly states that :D Oct 05 07:25:16 and is a good dividing line Oct 05 07:25:23 oh Oct 05 07:25:34 btw after ". ./setup-env" Oct 05 07:25:44 makefile doesn't have update/etc targets Oct 05 07:26:00 there's not really a makefile there actually Oct 05 07:26:06 oh it's wrong dir.. Oct 05 07:26:31 you probably wanna tell that in the instructions Oct 05 07:26:53 and maybe name the first dir smth other than "webos-ports" otherwise there are 2 nested webos-ports dirs... Oct 05 07:27:17 silvioster: feel free to change before you start building :) Oct 05 07:27:36 what's the difference between the dev image and normal image? Oct 05 07:27:49 OE @webos /opt/owo/webos-ports # MACHINE=tuna bb webos-image Unable to find conf/bblayers.conf BitBake must be run from within your build directory: /opt/owo/webos-ports/webos-ports Oct 05 07:27:53 silvioster: one for developers with gdb, ... and one for users Oct 05 07:27:54 does it look sane to you ? :) Oct 05 07:28:09 silvioster: you're in the wrong dir Oct 05 07:28:12 morphis: both have debug flags? Oct 05 07:28:14 as the error indicates Oct 05 07:28:17 silvioster: no Oct 05 07:28:26 silvioster: you mean debug symbols? Oct 05 07:28:27 morphis: yes. you "make update" from the first webos-ports dir Oct 05 07:28:36 and you run bitbake from the second nested dir Oct 05 07:28:39 heh Oct 05 07:28:43 yes Oct 05 07:28:54 morphis: yes, debug symbols in both, right? Oct 05 07:28:57 silvioster: everything in OE is compiled with debugging enabled but debug symbils are stripped later Oct 05 07:29:07 you can install them with the -dbg packages Oct 05 07:29:35 silvioster: the pure images are without debug symbols Oct 05 07:29:50 hm ok Oct 05 07:31:27 allright... other than confusing directory names all seems fine :) Oct 05 07:31:51 is the wiki world-editable? will add instructions about changing dirs before/after "make update" Oct 05 07:32:49 hmmm no, doesn't seem to be editable at all.. Oct 05 07:33:39 morphis: you took the machine definitions from the samsung github repo or self-made? Oct 05 07:34:01 silvioster: I am the maintainer of meta-samsung Oct 05 07:34:05 silvioster, if you can create an account on wiki www.webos-ports.org I will give you access. Oct 05 07:34:07 oh nice Oct 05 07:34:12 ka6sox: just made Oct 05 07:34:19 username? Oct 05 07:34:21 and meta-smartphone too Oct 05 07:34:24 silvioster Oct 05 07:34:37 morphis: you got definition for crespo or whatever it was called? Oct 05 07:34:51 nexus s Oct 05 07:35:05 silvioster: I don't got them, I made them Oct 05 07:35:24 everything in meta-smartphone is made by the community Oct 05 07:35:29 silvioster, you are promoted to human Oct 05 07:35:29 "got" in the meaning of "have you got" :) Oct 05 07:35:39 ka6sox: thanks ! :) Oct 05 07:35:46 silvioster: yes Oct 05 07:36:01 silvioster, np Oct 05 07:38:21 silvioster: g'day Oct 05 07:39:01 rwhitby: g'day to you too, good sir Oct 05 07:40:02 a webOS "app" from PIC installable on any Android phone is an interesting project Oct 05 07:41:30 silvioster: sounds like you've got experience in embedded systems before? Oct 05 07:41:41 rwhitby: some Oct 05 07:42:03 welcome - it's good to see new faces appearing here each week Oct 05 07:42:05 morphis: is there some kind of debug info to get during "preparing runqueue stage" btw? Oct 05 07:42:10 rwhitby: thanks :) Oct 05 07:42:25 as it seems like it's stuck on some wget task, but will probably never know about it.. :) Oct 05 07:43:04 silvioster: have you used OpenEmbedded before? Oct 05 07:43:33 silvioster: you have a gnexus to try your build on? Oct 05 07:43:33 long ago when compiling angstrom for ipaq Oct 05 07:44:03 where you a device maintainer for anything? Oct 05 07:44:03 silvioster, it has improved a lot since then. Oct 05 07:44:06 morphis: no, but will know what to do with a rootfs built with the arch flags in this build Oct 05 07:44:19 ka6sox: looks as messy as before, frankly ;) Oct 05 07:44:27 silvioster: it wont work on any other devices than the gnexus Oct 05 07:44:48 morphis: for now, will try compiling and see what happens Oct 05 07:44:56 its a fast server, should compile swiftly Oct 05 07:45:03 although right now it's stuck on the main python script Oct 05 07:45:29 after having been a few min in the "Preparing runqueue" stage, pressed Ctrl-C twice, and now it's still not responding... Oct 05 07:45:42 silvioster: lots of real RAM ? Oct 05 07:45:49 64gb Oct 05 07:45:58 that should do ;) Oct 05 07:46:08 hope so ;) Oct 05 07:46:14 but the process is still hung Oct 05 07:46:18 ok, killing it Oct 05 07:46:20 will start anew Oct 05 07:46:57 silvioster: you've got Android kernel/rootfs build/dev experience? Oct 05 07:47:18 rwhitby: yes Oct 05 07:47:35 take some patience, it will need its time Oct 05 07:48:16 trying again Oct 05 07:48:27 is there some flag that can give the bb command to get debug verbose output? Oct 05 07:48:43 bitbake --help shows possible flags Oct 05 07:48:45 silvioster: bb --help Oct 05 07:48:47 seem most of you know oe pretty well, so there probably is a flag.. Oct 05 07:48:50 like every other command Oct 05 07:48:53 umm.. no direct help ? :) Oct 05 07:49:00 like, "bb -d" Oct 05 07:50:54 -D and -v it is indeed.. Oct 05 07:51:06 wow, very verbose, nice.. Oct 05 07:51:34 hmmm Oct 05 07:51:42 can it be configured to use max core amount or it does by itself? Oct 05 07:51:49 cause now it's using 0% cpu... Oct 05 07:52:05 up to 7%.. Oct 05 07:53:15 you can set the python and gcc cores Oct 05 07:53:41 should? what's it set to automatically? Oct 05 07:53:55 what -j is make running at? Oct 05 07:54:09 there are 2 settings Oct 05 07:54:20 silvioster: as default it takes only one core Oct 05 07:54:21 one for bbthreads and one for compile threads Oct 05 07:54:27 omg.. Oct 05 07:54:36 where can change that? Oct 05 07:54:45 it will take 8 hours to compile on 1 core, won't it ? :) Oct 05 07:54:54 more probably Oct 05 07:55:04 well, how to change that? Oct 05 07:55:16 openwebos took 1 hour to compile.. want something similar if possible Oct 05 07:56:01 want = please let know what knob to turn to let know the build process to use more cores :) Oct 05 07:56:16 silvioster, a bit of patience please. Oct 05 07:56:18 its 1am here Oct 05 07:56:22 :) Oct 05 07:56:34 same here Oct 05 07:56:47 don't trust whois Oct 05 07:57:15 silvioster: you have to just settings in conf/local.conf Oct 05 07:57:22 sec Oct 05 07:58:24 set bbthreads to cores-1 Oct 05 07:59:37 done Oct 05 07:59:47 hmm... it still does the preparation stage single-threaded... Oct 05 08:00:18 too hard to untangle that mess I suppose multi Oct 05 08:00:27 some things have to maintain a state of the data, so they are best done single threaded Oct 05 08:01:06 silvioster, you should end up with around 3400-3500 tasks Oct 05 08:01:48 for now 99.9% idle :( Oct 05 08:02:08 hmmm.. maybe running with -DDDD -vvvv isn't a good idea... Oct 05 08:02:10 not for long Oct 05 08:02:52 ok, -v provides enough verbosity... Oct 05 08:03:04 NOTE: Pruned 5853 inactive tasks, 3552 left Oct 05 08:03:07 sounds correct? Oct 05 08:03:18 ya Oct 05 08:04:32 silvioster, what TZ are you in? Oct 05 08:05:13 pdt Oct 05 08:05:58 why, bitbake doesn't use all the cores unless you're on the east coast ? :) Oct 05 08:06:29 no, when on left coast you have to lift left foot to get it to use all of them. Oct 05 08:07:07 ;) Oct 05 08:07:33 hmm... wonder what it's doing... Oct 05 08:07:41 NOTE: Assign Weightings NOTE: Compute totals (have 1 endpoint(s)) Oct 05 08:10:19 hey not sure if it's interesting or not, but I made a live distro for OWO build-desktop Oct 05 08:11:30 it's around 110MB, based on Ubuntu 12.04 and OWO 1.0: http://www.xpud.org/download/devel/openwebos-desktop-1005.iso Oct 05 08:11:43 fun stuff Oct 05 08:11:51 only tested on virtualbox currently Oct 05 08:11:56 kk Oct 05 08:12:18 if you tweet it let me know so I can RT Oct 05 08:13:09 nice Oct 05 08:13:23 what's the graphic system on OE build btw, linuxfb ? Oct 05 08:13:28 penk, if you tweet it let me know so I can RT Oct 05 08:13:39 can be different ones Oct 05 08:14:02 ka6sox: sure, I'll clean up it a bit and commit to my build system Oct 05 08:14:05 FB and x11 are 2 Oct 05 08:15:16 ka6sox: which recipe does it use to configure? qt4-webos? Oct 05 08:16:01 or is it xcb platform plugin Oct 05 08:18:03 so.. what did i do today.. worked on webos for 13 hrs Oct 05 08:18:06 penk: build-desktop is using xcb and qemuarm is using linuxfb Oct 05 08:18:24 then i go to my hotel room, and i start working more :-S Oct 05 08:19:14 eric: what're you dealing with? Oct 05 08:19:31 unfortunately, nothing fun Oct 05 08:19:36 I'm headed off to bed, nn all, happy hacking! Oct 05 08:19:45 nite cryptk I should too Oct 05 08:19:50 you guys get to do all the glamorous work now Oct 05 08:20:52 you get to do the bug that occurs 1X ever 3days after so many sleep cycles... Oct 05 08:21:26 is the -nv flag to wget a standard bitbake procedure? Oct 05 08:21:29 actually, haven't had anything quite like that yet. the bugs are much more in our faces Oct 05 08:21:34 the wait is because of wget... Oct 05 08:21:45 it's still downloading something... very slow and without progress bars.. Oct 05 08:22:03 actually, here's a question for the guys that have seen it up on new devices - are your clocks showing up properly? Oct 05 08:22:09 with the correct time and everything Oct 05 08:25:18 i would gladly give someone an award to fix up the core build system to never fetch a package if the build is using a local source override Oct 05 08:25:45 is it a cake ? :) Oct 05 08:26:04 depends on how much it costs me to get a cake to wherever the person who does it is i guess Oct 05 08:27:27 RAWR! Oct 05 08:27:37 dkirker: whatup Oct 05 08:28:08 EricBlade: a ceiling, the empty apartment above mine, another apartment above that, the roof, the sky, the stars, the Universe! :D Oct 05 08:28:14 How about you? Oct 05 08:28:48 nothing much.. late night hacking a bit.. trying to get my sleep schedule all nice and screwey so i fall asleep early when i get back to michigan Oct 05 08:29:05 but i'll probably end up falling asleep on the plane and have to stay up all saturday just to fix it Oct 05 08:32:55 penk: nice!! it boots straight to luna? Oct 05 08:33:17 EricBlade: in recipes with tag=foo right? Oct 05 08:33:20 EricBlade: yeah Oct 05 08:33:22 Silvio: it's come a long way in the last couple hours - I think I've handled all the lib files, but now gettign a segmentation fault....gonna send the trace file on Skype Oct 05 08:33:46 JaMa: hmm? Oct 05 08:33:50 have to got to be now though ,or I'll be totally useless in the morning Oct 05 08:34:10 EricBlade: OE build or desktop? Oct 05 08:34:34 jama: oe especially, but both would be even more awesome Oct 05 08:34:44 night everyone Oct 05 08:34:50 it's because webos is using tags instead of fixed SRCREV Oct 05 08:35:08 i don't think the desktop build could do that though unless it also read the webos-conf file Oct 05 08:35:13 and bitbake fetcher is trying to check if tag wasn't rebased -> different SRCREV Oct 05 08:45:12 umm Oct 05 08:45:19 do you guys need a mirror for the files? Oct 05 08:45:25 or maybe some kind of a bulk download at least Oct 05 08:45:31 yes Oct 05 08:45:32 downloading file by file is taking ages from the build server Oct 05 08:45:36 it's defined in local.conf Oct 05 08:46:23 so do you have any mirrors currently? or it's just for future proofing? Oct 05 08:47:37 thought it's a bad download manager, edited to use aria2, but the server only accepts one connection at a time... Oct 05 09:16:31 heh Oct 05 09:16:45 libx11... its downloading all kind of unneeded stuff Oct 05 09:16:51 very slowly too... Oct 05 09:16:58 some 404's... Oct 05 09:17:23 silvioster: it somewhere a dependency inside OE so it's needed Oct 05 09:17:35 not a runtime-one but a dependency Oct 05 09:18:34 silvioster: do you have example of 404? Oct 05 09:22:47 morphis: that's exactly the cruft that was talking about. these dependencies are way overreaching :) Oct 05 09:22:58 anyway.. Oct 05 09:23:13 it started actually doing smth Oct 05 09:26:05 404 Oct 05 09:26:06 http://build.webos-ports.org/webos-ports/sstate-cache/dc/sstate-filecache-armv7a-vfp-neon-webos-linux-gnueabi-2.0.0-55-r3-armv7a-vfp-neon-2-dcab84e65032f7f17cb08060164998d6_deploy-ipk.tgz Oct 05 09:26:16 http://build.webos-ports.org/webos-ports/sstate-cache/0a/sstate-filecache-armv7a-vfp-neon-webos-linux-gnueabi-2.0.0-55-r3-armv7a-vfp-neon-2-0ae98f9baf8b77826e2bfc7dc6985fde_package.tgz Oct 05 09:26:30 http://build.webos-ports.org/webos-ports/sstate-cache/89/sstate-filecache-armv7a-vfp-neon-webos-linux-gnueabi-2.0.0-55-r3-armv7a-vfp-neon-2-89fb16d58d12c5cab2547ac093bb2d7a_populate-sysroot.tgz Oct 05 09:26:39 http://build.webos-ports.org/webos-ports/sstate-cache/5d/sstate-db8-armv7a-vfp-neon-webos-linux-gnueabi-2.0.0-61-r4-armv7a-vfp-neon-2-5d991467b2ba670fe9ca1144b75a6429_deploy-ipk.tgz Oct 05 09:26:53 http://build.webos-ports.org/webos-ports/sstate-cache/dc/sstate-db8-armv7a-vfp-neon-webos-linux-gnueabi-2.0.0-61-r4-armv7a-vfp-neon-2-dc1ce3012d072e9d1edb0c167f423a22_package.tgz Oct 05 09:27:05 http://build.webos-ports.org/webos-ports/sstate-cache/85/sstate-db8-armv7a-vfp-neon-webos-linux-gnueabi-2.0.0-61-r4-armv7a-vfp-neon-2-85db8d07e95e4b10d41061f8ea7c4a59_populate-sysroot.tgz Oct 05 09:27:13 http://build.webos-ports.org/webos-ports/sstate-cache/85/sstate-configurator-armv7a-vfp-neon-webos-linux-gnueabi-2.0.0-48-r1-armv7a-vfp-neon-2-856905d180dab90462d4d79e1bc48499_deploy-ipk.tgz Oct 05 09:27:23 http://build.webos-ports.org/webos-ports/sstate-cache/93/sstate-configurator-armv7a-vfp-neon-webos-linux-gnueabi-2.0.0-48-r1-armv7a-vfp-neon-2-93e86478515d71157fb082a987340db3_package.tgz Oct 05 09:27:32 http://build.webos-ports.org/webos-ports/sstate-cache/1d/sstate-configurator-armv7a-vfp-neon-webos-linux-gnueabi-2.0.0-48-r1-armv7a-vfp-neon-2-1d2a0533b6ad84886caf9b74a5de3aa3_populate-sysroot.tgz Oct 05 09:27:40 http://build.webos-ports.org/webos-ports/sstate-cache/5d/sstate-activitymanager-armv7a-vfp-neon-webos-linux-gnueabi-2.0.0-110-r2-armv7a-vfp-neon-2-5d8b7237e98c000bac5d5ceb421525fc_deploy-ipk.tgz Oct 05 09:27:49 http://build.webos-ports.org/webos-ports/sstate-cache/c6/sstate-activitymanager-armv7a-vfp-neon-webos-linux-gnueabi-2.0.0-110-r2-armv7a-vfp-neon-2-c622ba3bc57b1c4e335f3357772f5741_package.tgz Oct 05 09:28:02 http://build.webos-ports.org/webos-ports/sstate-cache/55/sstate-activitymanager-armv7a-vfp-neon-webos-linux-gnueabi-2.0.0-110-r2-armv7a-vfp-neon-2-556e0fafed84cd2906989107046bb21c_populate-sysroot.tgz Oct 05 09:28:13 http://build.webos-ports.org/webos-ports/sstate-cache/55/sstate-browserserver-armv7a-vfp-neon-webos-linux-gnueabi-3.0.0-0.6-r3-armv7a-vfp-neon-2-55478fc48ff6274394f1082d8e38a437_deploy-ipk.tgz Oct 05 09:28:19 fsck Oct 05 09:28:22 http://build.webos-ports.org/webos-ports/sstate-cache/ea/sstate-browserserver-armv7a-vfp-neon-webos-linux-gnueabi-3.0.0-0.6-r3-armv7a-vfp-neon-2-ea2b7a134d9e4bf9fa893d1a6361f01e_package.tgz Oct 05 09:28:25 learn to use pastebin Oct 05 09:28:31 ? Oct 05 09:28:40 if you don't need them, won't paste them Oct 05 09:28:44 it's not that much text Oct 05 09:28:46 do not flood Oct 05 09:29:07 really? 14 lines of 404 bugreport urls is a flood ? :) Oct 05 09:29:12 silvioster: you can paste them on pastebin.org Oct 05 09:29:32 silvioster: if thouse are all from sstate-cache then it's OK Oct 05 09:29:40 ok then Oct 05 09:29:55 panda-z: yes. and the script might have an automatic logging for those too, so why bother Oct 05 09:31:01 anyway, sorry for flooding, glad it's not a bug Oct 05 09:33:10 silvioster: do you have a galaxy nexus? Oct 05 09:33:57 nope Oct 05 09:34:03 have other devices with same arch Oct 05 09:35:24 silvioster: so you're trying to port OWEBOS to other devices? Oct 05 09:36:15 right now trying to recreate the progress of morphis Oct 05 09:36:37 and provide some bugreports during process if required :) Oct 05 09:37:43 silvioster: no matter how useful, might want to put that in private or pastebin, and even in private, the IRC server might decide to kick you for that many lines Oct 05 09:37:58 eric: it's ok, doesn't seem like it's useful in any case Oct 05 09:38:11 but thanks Oct 05 09:38:18 silvioster: devices with just same arch will be a problem Oct 05 09:38:26 you need exactly the same device Oct 05 09:38:31 it's generally considered rude to paste more than one or two lines to a channel Oct 05 09:38:32 otherwise it won't work Oct 05 09:38:36 and servers hate it Oct 05 09:38:38 morphis: what can be a problem source? Oct 05 09:38:58 the whole build is device specific Oct 05 09:39:04 the binaries for gles/egl are device specific Oct 05 09:39:17 eric: servers don't have feelings ;) Oct 05 09:39:34 morphis: yes they are. are you redistributing the android ones in the webos-ports build? Oct 05 09:39:36 look at meta-webos-ports and meta-smartphone for the override we did Oct 05 09:39:41 silvioster: yes Oct 05 09:39:57 ok, will push the correct binaries in that case Oct 05 09:40:10 not a big change. the higher-level stuff uses lubhybris anyway Oct 05 09:40:15 *lib Oct 05 09:40:21 try it Oct 05 09:40:48 hmm... waiting for "linux-samsung-tuna" task... is it compiling kernel?... Oct 05 09:40:55 better would be to bring support for your device to meta-smartphone Oct 05 09:40:56 yes Oct 05 09:40:57 did you run the port with your custom kernel ? Oct 05 09:41:01 yes Oct 05 09:41:03 ok Oct 05 09:41:13 just some small modifications on top of stock one Oct 05 09:41:19 it doesn't work on stock android? Oct 05 09:41:33 remember the changes in short? Oct 05 09:41:59 morphis: whats up dude? Oct 05 09:42:12 it needs some modifications for touchscreen/firmware loading/.. Oct 05 09:42:17 silvioster: look at the repository Oct 05 09:42:23 ok thx Oct 05 09:42:27 stefan_schmidt_w: a lot :) Oct 05 09:42:52 stefan_schmidt_w: but we're public now and moving forward Oct 05 09:43:00 morphis: cooool :) Oct 05 09:43:21 stefan_schmidt_w: with real good OE work :) Oct 05 09:43:38 everything integrated into the right place Oct 05 09:43:57 morphis: yeah, its nice to see webos stuff for OE after they initially used it but never put anything back Oct 05 09:44:03 morphis: are the changes critical for functioning webos? can they be overcome from userspace? Oct 05 09:44:08 nice that openWebOS is coming along Oct 05 09:44:23 yes, it's coming and getting better Oct 05 09:44:35 we're trying to convince them to support things back to upstream Oct 05 09:44:44 silvioster: maybe Oct 05 09:44:49 depends on the device Oct 05 09:45:09 morphis: from looking at repo, the only thing really done is downloading the omap4 gles from ubuntu repo Oct 05 09:45:17 no other changes... is that correct ? Oct 05 09:45:50 silvioster: thats the wrong recipe Oct 05 09:45:51 to put it differently: did you try the same rootfs with standard kernel? Oct 05 09:45:53 look at libgles-android Oct 05 09:45:59 morphis: how is the situation between webos-ports and HP anyway? Sharing knowledge only or going further like having HP people working on getting stuff from webos-ports back into their tree Oct 05 09:46:00 silvioster: no Oct 05 09:46:27 stefan_schmidt_w: JaMa and me are working hard to get OE things back from webos-ports to HP stuff and they happy about this Oct 05 09:46:34 we're in contact with them too Oct 05 09:46:41 morphis: nice Oct 05 09:46:55 morphis: are you talking about the meta-samsung repo in the meta-smartphone repo? Oct 05 09:48:31 silvioster: yes Oct 05 09:50:29 silvioster: make sure to look on right branch Oct 05 09:50:34 silvioster: webOS-ports/master Oct 05 09:51:33 silvioster: https://github.com/webOS-ports/meta-smartphone/blob/webOS-ports/master/meta-samsung/recipes-graphics/libgles-android/libgles-android_4.1.1.bb Oct 05 09:52:01 seems like the build finished Oct 05 09:52:37 morphis: that has nothing to do with linux kernel does it? Oct 05 09:52:52 silvioster: it depends on the kernel interfaces Oct 05 09:53:13 morphis: the kernel is not changed from android standard. is it? Oct 05 09:53:31 as I said, just some modifications on top Oct 05 09:53:59 silvioster: https://github.com/shr-distribution/linux/commits/tuna/3.0/master Oct 05 09:54:52 are these changes critical for running the rootfs? or just nice-to-have? Oct 05 09:54:55 doesn't matter, ok Oct 05 09:55:03 critical for firmware and touchscreen Oct 05 09:55:10 + rndis support Oct 05 09:55:33 DEBUG: Executing shell function do_compile | Can't exec "/opt/owo/webos-ports/webos-ports/tmp-eglibc/sysroots/x86_64-linux/usr/bin/qmake-palm": No such file or directory at /opt/owo/webos-ports/webos-ports/tmp-eglibc/work/armv7a-vfp-neon-webos-linux-gnueabi/webkit-webos-1.3-0.53-r2/isis-project-WebKit-97bd388/Tools/Scripts/webkitdirs.pm line 1786. Oct 05 09:56:00 silvioster: bitbake -c cleansstate -f qt4-webos and run again Oct 05 09:56:00 you're using sstate? Oct 05 09:56:11 morphis: it's used by default in WOP Oct 05 09:56:14 ok Oct 05 09:56:14 no idea Oct 05 09:56:27 morphis: the qmake-palm binary is indeed not there Oct 05 09:56:46 yeah cause of HP bad qt4-webos recipe :) Oct 05 09:57:03 morphis: do you have a solution for it? Oct 05 09:57:29 silvioster: look at what JaMa told you Oct 05 09:57:34 last time that dug into it, had to make a hybrid of old owo-beta etc Oct 05 09:57:36 oh Oct 05 09:58:18 JaMa: thanks, didn't see the line Oct 05 10:00:16 did that Oct 05 10:00:25 after that, bb webos-image Oct 05 10:00:26 same error Oct 05 10:00:37 will try on other package, sec Oct 05 10:00:49 webkit-webos Oct 05 10:01:11 silvioster: or you can do bitbake -c compile -f qt4-webos Oct 05 10:01:38 ok, will try that too Oct 05 10:37:36 JaMa: the qt4-webos compiled ok, but now restarted webos-image and it started downloading the stuff again... ;( Oct 05 10:38:04 crazy oe scripts.. Oct 05 10:39:45 what's being downloaded again? Oct 05 10:39:48 sstate packages? Oct 05 10:42:06 yup Oct 05 11:01:24 JaMa: fyi, around 4GB of data in sstate-cache dir Oct 05 11:01:42 some of it (most?) was downloaded from the webos-ports webserver... Oct 05 11:07:41 silvioster: what distro and host do you have? Oct 05 11:08:31 silvioster: and only stuff directly in sstate-cache is downloaded, if it's in [xy] subdirectory or LSB subdirectory then it's built on your host Oct 05 11:15:51 ok seems like it's compiled ok Oct 05 12:54:57 http://zareason.co.nz/zatab.html Oct 05 12:55:07 ^ any chance of openwebOS getting ported to this baby? Oct 05 12:56:53 tidux: you can port openwebOS to any device you want Oct 05 12:57:30 I meant more from an "are the drivers open enough" perspective Oct 05 12:57:41 I know GPU blobs can really trip up ports of Android, at least Oct 05 12:58:04 tl;dr how's Mali 400 support? Oct 05 12:58:11 I'd rather have zaphone, if you get what I mean :P Oct 05 12:58:45 I don't need a smartphone, but a tablet and a desktop could replace my overpowered, overheating big laptop Oct 05 12:58:53 Also, tidux, they don't mention anything about their hardware drivers, so they are likely closed-source Oct 05 12:59:11 making it harder, but not impossible to port to Oct 05 12:59:31 it's an AllWinner A10 SoC in there Oct 05 12:59:39 which iirc is mostly open except the Mali core Oct 05 12:59:49 and people are working on the Mali drivers Oct 05 12:59:54 Mali = GPU Oct 05 13:00:33 ah, if that is true, then it probably has a much better chance as far as the basic necessities of the device are concerned Oct 05 13:01:30 alright, cool Oct 05 13:01:40 if I ever stumble across an extra ~$450 I'll grab one Oct 05 13:02:23 everything I have heard is almost the exact opposite for the A10 Oct 05 13:49:45 How similar could the Galaxy Nexus and Nexus 7 potentially be? (Porting wise) Oct 05 13:52:50 Development_, I would say fairly different from a hardware support angle Oct 05 13:52:58 they use totally different SoCs Oct 05 13:54:12 However, all of the drivers should be open source? (Considering they're Google devices) so technically, the Galaxy Nexus port 'could' be used to some extent? Oct 05 13:54:33 uh Oct 05 13:54:36 no Oct 05 13:54:49 google experience devices do not have open source drivers Oct 05 13:55:01 they however do offer the proprietary blobs for easy download Oct 05 13:55:38 Ahh fair enough. I just wanna get some sort of Open WebOS on one of my devices ^ Oct 05 15:41:15 i think i want to try that Luna Desktop ISO on my EEE-pc Oct 05 15:41:57 that would be interesting Oct 05 15:46:12 nice thing about California: thanks to the time shift, I automatically become a morning person Oct 05 15:46:33 heh Oct 05 15:47:05 I've had more breakfast during breakfast time in the last 3 weeks than I have in the last 3 years i'd bet Oct 05 15:47:31 lol Oct 05 16:03:04 i'm going to go get some breakfast right now before i pack up the laptop to go flying Oct 05 16:17:04 lol Oct 05 16:17:14 hey guys Oct 05 16:18:30 moaning Oct 05 16:18:49 EricBlade: I think this pull request can be closed now: https://github.com/openwebos/qt/pull/15 Oct 05 16:19:06 i hear there was a good convo between -ports and PIC? Oct 05 16:27:09 uh.. weren't you here for it? i thought you were involved in it Oct 05 16:31:05 nite, bye Oct 05 16:33:29 EricBlade: not for the one last night Oct 05 17:14:38 Hi ! Oct 05 17:15:48 morning Oct 05 17:20:34 every seat in this airport has two AC sockets and a USB connector. none of them work. at least, i assume so after trying a dozen Oct 05 17:33:27 EricBlade: There is one that works. Oct 05 17:33:32 You just have to find it! Oct 05 17:33:56 It is your prerogative!!!! Oct 05 17:34:28 dkirker: i know the wall sockets work, but i don't want to sit at a wall socket. :( Oct 05 17:35:06 Become the wall socket! Oct 05 17:35:10 Be one with the device! Oct 05 17:37:47 i am one with the laptop. i am not one, however, with PG&E. that could be quite painful. Oct 05 17:37:55 what airport? Oct 05 17:38:15 in frankfurt the only power sockets were on oracle power terminals in the middle of walkways. so ppl dragged chairs next to them. Oct 05 17:39:04 san jose Oct 05 17:39:45 ahh i havent been there since the remodel. before that, they have little to no power plugs Oct 05 17:40:07 two other people just pointed this fact out to me too Oct 05 17:40:32 hmm. i can't get to gmail. on either the wifi here or my cell .. wth. is the world ending? Oct 05 17:41:56 yes. Oct 05 17:42:00 starting with san jose. Oct 05 17:43:57 well it's a good thing i'm going to Dallas then Oct 05 17:44:57 anyone awake that has successfully seen Open webOS on a new device? Oct 05 17:46:49 hmm. gmail and twitter aren't working. why bother having internet? Oct 05 17:47:58 Lol Oct 05 17:48:55 My phone has decided to connect to my car while its being washed at a car wash and make noises at the people Oct 05 17:49:01 Im ok with this Oct 05 17:49:37 keith: heyo! Oct 05 17:49:48 halfhalo: LOL!!! Oct 05 17:50:02 Please record it all! :D Oct 05 17:50:16 Bah Oct 05 17:50:32 Now it reconnected to my headphones Oct 05 17:50:39 dkirker: hey man, how goes? Oct 05 17:50:42 well fix it!! Oct 05 17:50:52 keith: Not bad! Just being busy, as usual. :P Oct 05 17:51:02 My job, webOS, and dating has me on my toes. :P Oct 05 17:51:04 you? Oct 05 17:53:05 busy too. took a gig as #10 in a video conf startup. keepin' busy Oct 05 17:53:13 where you at now? Oct 05 17:56:58 dkirker: marry webOS, then you don't have to date anymore Oct 05 17:57:03 :) Oct 05 17:57:11 or marry your job, and keep webOS as your mistress Oct 05 17:59:08 EricBlade: I think the last pretty much describes me right now... :P But.. I think my bf might have complaints about this. :P Oct 05 17:59:19 keith: Still at Range. Kicking some ass right now. Oct 05 17:59:43 nice Oct 05 18:00:19 So he says... Oct 05 18:00:30 halfhalo: byte me!!!! Oct 05 18:00:40 MAGNETS Oct 05 18:00:55 lol Oct 05 18:01:18 that's probably the closest thing to bytes in physical form (besides electrons, that is). Oct 05 18:02:31 EricBlade: I'm currently trying to compile OpenWebOS on an IconiaTab A500 (Tegra2), but I'm a little bit cheating: I'm using the Ubuntu 11.04 rootfs from Nvidia as a starting point :) Oct 05 18:06:27 Tofe: hmm, that does sound a bit cheating. Oct 05 18:06:40 are you trying to build-desktop on it? Oct 05 18:06:48 Yes, as a start Oct 05 18:07:09 ah. i have a question specifically related to the environments that we're setting up from the OE build Oct 05 18:07:21 it's unlikely that build-desktop will work on ARM Oct 05 18:07:40 The thing is, I didn't want to install all the cross-compiling toolchain for ARM right now, so I just went for the easiest Oct 05 18:07:48 i'm wondering if anyone who's seen it on a new device has noticed the title-bar and lock screen clocks not being in the right timezone Oct 05 18:07:50 ues, maybe it won't work Oct 05 18:07:54 ya, but it doesn't help if the easiest method doesn't work Oct 05 18:08:07 EricBlade: saw that but don't care about it right now Oct 05 18:08:12 EricBlade: but feel free to fix this Oct 05 18:08:21 build-desktop is specifically setup for x86 Oct 05 18:08:54 morphis: so you saw it as well? i'm trying to figure out where the problem is, and i wasn't sure if it was only happening in qemu Oct 05 18:08:56 ShiftyAxel: well... my Ubuntu on my tablet is the desktop version too Oct 05 18:09:07 ya, but it's running on ARM Oct 05 18:09:39 having the ARM desktop packages installed on the rootfs doesn't change the build environment Oct 05 18:10:28 we discussed this here the other day with someone who wanted to build-desktop from an ubuntu chroot on android Oct 05 18:10:57 But I'm not even chrooted Oct 05 18:11:10 ShiftyAxel: Not sure I understand... It's not gonna cross-compile, isn't it Oct 05 18:11:29 ShiftyAxel: Does build-desktop specifically indicate x86 as the arch? IIRC, something does.... Oct 05 18:11:34 somewhere, or used to Oct 05 18:11:41 build-desktop is specifically setup to build for x86 Oct 05 18:11:57 as I thought Oct 05 18:12:00 OE can be setup to build against whatever you like with the right settings and board support packages Oct 05 18:12:10 <3 OE Oct 05 18:12:18 which is where the cross-compiling happens Oct 05 18:12:43 Well, I could go for OE, but I guess I'd have to write some nyx modules, isn't it Oct 05 18:12:48 bazooka it!!!! stupid cross-compiling.... Oct 05 18:13:15 lol Oct 05 18:13:27 OE is the best way to compile for a device Oct 05 18:13:44 given my experiences.... Oct 05 18:13:47 yes, it is! :D Oct 05 18:13:59 OE, compile me a sandwich! Oct 05 18:14:07 since you have the ubuntu install already, you can either Oct 05 18:14:13 OE: dkirker, NO! Oct 05 18:14:20 OE, sudo compile me a sandwich! Oct 05 18:14:23 The build isn't started yet, so I'm still quite free to choose Oct 05 18:14:25 OE: okay shiftyaxel Oct 05 18:14:33 I'm just apt-get-ing Oct 05 18:14:42 Tofe: Options: A. use OE to build binaries for that, since you have the drivers on there already Oct 05 18:14:48 (ubuntu for tegra) Oct 05 18:14:55 ShiftyAxel: OE: I am sorry.... /usr/lib/glib-2.0/ is not recommended for cross-compiling... Oct 05 18:15:14 B. use the tegra drivers to create a board support package and build the webos rootfs for your device Oct 05 18:15:38 B would be the best way to go in terms of making a webos distro, but A would give you a working thing fastest Oct 05 18:16:31 As I'm not really comfortable with openwebos yet, I'll go for A I think Oct 05 18:16:54 Then, in order to get a more sharable version, I'll do it again with B Oct 05 18:17:12 B will require hooking up all the other drivers, nyx modules etc Oct 05 18:17:20 so ya, much more work there Oct 05 18:17:36 yes, as far as I've understood Oct 05 18:17:59 let's go for A. I've got some doc reading ahead :) Oct 05 18:18:29 you sure do Oct 05 18:18:34 OE is big and complex Oct 05 18:19:17 Stop ! I'm already convinced Oct 05 18:19:28 ;) Oct 05 18:19:41 good luck though Oct 05 18:19:45 morning LarrySteeze Oct 05 18:20:01 morning Oct 05 18:22:00 40GB !? Oct 05 18:22:08 yes Oct 05 18:22:16 OE builds the entire rootfs Oct 05 18:22:25 which takes a fair amount of time and space Oct 05 18:22:37 Time, I've got plenty. Space.... Oct 05 18:22:40 * ShiftyAxel had to make a 60Gb ext4 partition just for OE Oct 05 18:23:07 my vm has a 100gig and i nearly filled it once with two builds Oct 05 18:23:54 Sounds like some external USB harddrive will be involved in my case... Oct 05 18:24:32 I would advise using internal storage if at all possible, even if it involves moving things to an external Oct 05 18:24:43 r/w speed is a factor in the extreme time-taking Oct 05 18:25:20 Well, considering that the IconiaTab has an 32GB internal storage... Oct 05 18:25:42 don't build on device Oct 05 18:25:45 OE is not made for that Oct 05 18:25:58 it would take about a month for one build on a tablet Oct 05 18:26:20 Ah. Month. Yes... Oct 05 18:27:20 build it on a PC, then install it on the device Oct 05 18:27:22 that's the OE way Oct 05 18:27:24 The good thing is, my ready-to-use ubuntu arm install is on an sdcard Oct 05 18:29:45 I just don't (understand|know) what OE will prereq for the build -- I'll need my ubuntu rootfs in my VM, isn't it ? Oct 05 18:30:24 vdezuUg5 Oct 05 18:30:27 youps Oct 05 18:31:03 ... Oct 05 18:31:40 I don't think you'll be needing the rootfs Oct 05 18:32:25 I think the idea would be having it link against the ubuntu libraries, or something along those lines Oct 05 18:32:53 ok going to pack up for this flight .. yawn. need coffee too. Oct 05 18:33:10 safe flight EricBlade Oct 05 18:33:13 (s) Oct 05 18:33:27 then i get to spend 3 hrs in dallas.. ugh Oct 05 18:33:36 not ugh dallas, but ugh 3 hrs Oct 05 18:33:41 bbl Oct 05 18:34:09 ShiftyAxel: okay, so I just install a regular x32 Ubuntu 11.04 in a VM, and I start OE compilation from there Oct 05 18:34:41 (I thought cross-compilation needed the target libraries to be linked with, but looks like I'm wrong) Oct 05 18:35:41 a VM where? Oct 05 18:35:46 on your desktop/laptop or the tablet? Oct 05 18:38:17 desktop, I won't push it as far as launch a VM on my tablet :) Oct 05 18:42:44 So my steps were right ? cross-compile OE from a x32 Ubuntu ? Oct 05 18:43:39 correct, yeah Oct 05 18:43:53 cool. Let's go. Thanks :) Oct 05 18:44:02 OE would probably also work on x64 ubuntu, just in case that's your host system Oct 05 18:44:21 no, it's a x64 archlinux Oct 05 18:45:07 it does compile but with a customized build-desktop, so I guess a customized webos-build would be needed too Oct 05 18:47:47 just curious, is anyone from ports or internals planning on bringing preware to OWO? Oct 05 18:48:39 yes Oct 05 18:48:49 :D Oct 05 18:49:05 that's good to hear. :) Oct 05 18:49:19 Is it already in progress, or just planned? Oct 05 19:01:31 busy morning Oct 05 19:01:56 get done reading the logs backlog and then have to read the backlog in here too Oct 05 19:04:18 I need to get back to work anyway.. later Oct 05 20:15:52 openembedded.org is quite slow... Oct 05 20:16:49 oh? Oct 05 20:16:53 what is slow about it? Oct 05 20:17:47 its running quite zippy for me Oct 05 20:19:42 It's 100kB/s Oct 05 20:20:01 but anyway it's a one-time big download, so it's ok Oct 05 20:20:09 what file are you dl'ing? Oct 05 20:20:21 owebos OE Oct 05 20:27:01 Tofe, what country are you in? Oct 05 20:27:31 because git is running speedily along for me. Oct 05 20:27:55 admittedly i am only 5-6 hours from the server by car. Oct 05 20:31:09 scoutcamper: in France Oct 05 20:31:18 ahhh Oct 05 20:31:19 ok. Oct 05 20:31:21 :) Oct 05 20:31:24 that makes more sense Oct 05 20:31:37 the OE server is hosted in Corvallis OR, USA Oct 05 20:31:53 yes, quite a long time for me by car... Oct 05 20:32:32 I didn't know bitbake; it's quite impressive ! Oct 05 20:33:10 okay, gotta go Oct 05 20:33:16 bye Oct 05 21:45:50 Hello folks! Oct 05 21:46:13 Howdy Oct 05 21:47:34 full disclosure -- I'm a blogger for Android Central and webOS Nations. Got a couple Q's about building for the GSM Galaxy Nexus Oct 05 21:48:02 gbhil: questions, you say? Oct 05 21:48:16 I'm just a volunteer for Phoenix. I know nothing about this stuff, but ShiftyAxel can definitely help! Oct 05 21:48:28 Any particular toolchain recommended? I'm about to wipe and format a HDD with Ubuntu 12.04 and give it a spin Oct 05 21:49:08 Derek K (from webOS Narions) has a GSM Nexus in the mail, and I'd like to have an image in hid inbox ready when he gets it :) Oct 05 21:51:26 Unless someone wants to volunteer to send him one, that is :) Oct 05 21:54:34 gbhil, we use OpenEmbedded for the Galaxy Nexus builds Oct 05 21:54:52 has you seen the build documents on our wiki? those may answer some of your questions Oct 05 21:55:48 gbhil, http://wiki.webos-ports.org/wiki/Galaxy_Nexus_Build_Setup Oct 05 21:56:03 it's OE on Ubuntu 12.04 amd64 Oct 05 21:56:50 Saw the Wiki, since I was starting from scratch I figured I woud ask about the toolchain and install the same one you all are using. Thanks! Oct 05 21:57:14 Keep up the great work :) Oct 05 23:44:57 Hello all Oct 05 23:46:51 I am interested in trying to port Web OS to the HTC Senstaion and maybe the Iconia A500 if my efforts for the Sensation are suceswful Oct 05 23:48:12 I am looking for some guidiance on where to start though, I have built Android form source before but that was with the use of a guide to get me started Oct 05 23:50:18 T-Macgnolia, I would recommend looking over how we are building it for the galaxy nexus Oct 05 23:50:23 have you ever used OE before? Oct 05 23:59:12 folks Oct 05 23:59:14 No I have not used OE before Oct 06 00:00:24 When you say look over the how you guys built for the GNex do you mean read through the thread on XDA Oct 06 00:00:30 we are building it using OE, so I would recommend starting by reading up on how OE works, and checking our our build recipes Oct 06 00:00:39 T-Macgnolia, no, I mean read through the wiki page on it Oct 06 00:00:50 * cryptk didn't know there was a thread on XDA Oct 06 00:01:06 Ok I have the WiKi page pulled up all ready Oct 06 00:02:04 Also I use Ubuntu 10.01 should I upgrade to 12.04 Oct 06 00:02:29 we have not tested at all on 10.10 Oct 06 00:02:38 only on 12.04, and someone got it working on gentoo using chroots Oct 06 00:03:20 Ok then sounds like it might be in my benefit to upgrade then Oct 06 00:05:40 Also can you give me a idea of how much storage space is recommended for a full work tree Oct 06 00:06:47 a bunch Oct 06 00:06:58 I don't know the final tally, but I know it is over 20GB Oct 06 00:07:08 I generally recommend 60GB to people Oct 06 00:14:33 Cool thanks for the info, I am removing my Android work tree right now and I am going to update my Ubuntu next via the ubuntu update center Oct 06 00:15:02 I found the wiki page giving details on the packages you need Oct 06 00:19:29 hey guys Oct 06 00:21:57 hows it going PatrickC Oct 06 00:22:10 goin good cryptk Oct 06 00:22:19 brb Oct 06 00:23:52 THE BEES ARE IN THE BAG Oct 06 00:23:59 I REPEAT, THE BEES ARE IN THE BAG Oct 06 00:30:10 @cryptk when you say OE are you talking about OpenEmbedded Oct 06 00:32:44 T-Macgnolia, yes Oct 06 00:33:11 Ok just making sure before i do too much reading on it Oct 06 01:24:28 halfhalo, are you 1/2 in the bag? Oct 06 01:24:37 EricBlade, you made it home yet? Oct 06 01:24:49 wat? Oct 06 01:25:04 oh...the Beez are in the bag...right Oct 06 01:59:21 Hi, did someone met the TIME_UTC conflict problem when building boost? Oct 06 02:03:01 The TIME_UTC in ./boost/thread/xtime.hpp is conflict with glibc 2.16, https://svn.boost.org/trac/boost/ticket/6940 Oct 06 02:31:46 "When you say look over the how you guys built for the GNex do you mean read through the thread on XDA" - heh :) Oct 06 02:58:33 huh? Oct 06 02:58:50 thread on XDA? Oct 06 02:58:52 they did it? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Oct 06 03:00:01 2012