**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Dec 19 02:59:59 2012
Dec 19 03:51:00 <ka6sox> ~sleep ShiftyAxel
Dec 19 05:32:38 <rwhitby> Nexus 7 Inductive Charging Mod (using Palm Touchstones) completed: http://rootzwiki.com/topic/37668-hardware-nexus-7-inductive-charging-mod-using-palm-touchstones/
Dec 19 05:47:37 <ka6sox> :-)
Dec 19 06:07:20 <bhuey> hey
Dec 19 07:58:29 <Garfonso> hi
Dec 19 09:16:49 <morphis> morning
Dec 19 09:28:12 <stefan_schmidt_w> möp
Dec 19 10:10:43 <Garfonso> hi
Dec 19 15:26:45 <HaDAk> rwhitby: good job on the nexus 7 touchstone conversion.  what was your total material cost? i've got a spare pre2 and touchstone going to waste, and I already nearly destroyed my n7 usb port >.>
Dec 19 15:38:13 <nicoooooo> hi
Dec 19 15:46:15 <ShiftyAxel> that was short-lived
Dec 19 16:17:57 <HaDAk> yep
Dec 19 16:18:03 <HaDAk> this place has been quiet lately though
Dec 19 16:19:47 <ShiftyAxel> aye, that it has
Dec 19 16:19:59 <ShiftyAxel> I imagine it'll get busy in about 4 hours or so though, hackathon!
Dec 19 16:27:42 <EricBlade> hackathon!!
Dec 19 16:29:44 <ShiftyAxel> porting mojo stuff to enyo2, huzzah!
Dec 19 16:30:19 <EricBlade> someone should spend sometime translating the Mojo stuff to English first
Dec 19 16:30:19 <EricBlade> :D
Dec 19 16:32:01 <HaDAk> sounds like a job for...
Dec 19 16:32:07 * HaDAk dashes into a nearby phonebooth
Dec 19 16:32:11 <HaDAk> SOMEBODY ELSE!
Dec 19 16:34:47 <EricBlade> my office is under direct sunshine at 8:00am. yuck. makes it hard to see my monitor.
Dec 19 16:34:55 <ShiftyAxel> HaDAk: to english?
Dec 19 16:34:57 <EricBlade> guess i can't come in before 8:45
Dec 19 16:35:13 <HaDAk> ShiftyAxel: or something
Dec 19 16:35:21 <ShiftyAxel> confusion!
Dec 19 16:35:22 <HaDAk> shit. i've got a meeting starting.
Dec 19 16:35:26 * HaDAk panics
Dec 19 16:35:33 <ShiftyAxel> go go go!
Dec 19 18:10:27 <EricBlade> Markus just asked me .. does the battery indicator work? i can't recall seeing it less than 100%, but i have it plugged in most of the time so far
Dec 19 18:11:07 <ShiftyAxel> it does
Dec 19 18:11:20 <ShiftyAxel> morphis already implemented the nyx module for that
Dec 19 18:15:33 <EricBlade> nice
Dec 19 18:59:11 <Darakians> question on building the webos image
Dec 19 18:59:46 <Darakians> I got a luna-sysmgr error (bad RPATH)
Dec 19 19:00:18 <Darakians> with a very long string for the file path after that
Dec 19 19:00:30 <Darakians> is this a known error?
Dec 19 19:06:43 <ShiftyAxel> Darakians: are you using any form of local build?
Dec 19 19:07:09 <Darakians> I'm not really sure what that means
Dec 19 19:07:36 <Darakians> I followed this http://webos-ports.org/wiki/Galaxy_Nexus_Build_Setup
Dec 19 19:08:20 <Darakians> no errors until I ran MACHINE=tuna bb webos-image
Dec 19 19:08:32 <Darakians> which gave me the RPATH eror
Dec 19 19:08:35 <EricBlade> Darakians: that's a warning that appears in a few components
Dec 19 19:09:22 <EricBlade> it shouldn't kill the build
Dec 19 19:09:22 <Darakians> so do I need to rerun the compile with some sort of ignore errors flag?
Dec 19 19:09:29 <Darakians> it looks like it finished
Dec 19 19:09:41 <ShiftyAxel> c'est impossible
Dec 19 19:09:53 <ShiftyAxel> unless you've had it running for a while
Dec 19 19:09:55 <EricBlade> unless they made it an error condition in a newer bitbake.. but a newer bitbake would have a lot more problems than just that
Dec 19 19:10:26 <Darakians> well, I started the build last night, went home, came back in and was met with this error
Dec 19 19:10:34 <Darakians> I have no idea how long it ran
Dec 19 19:11:19 <ShiftyAxel> if there's an image in <build env>/tmp-eglibc/deploy/images/tuna/ then you're all good
Dec 19 19:12:08 <Darakians> let me check
Dec 19 19:12:46 <Darakians> quite a bit in there, webos-image-tuna.ext2?
Dec 19 19:14:44 <Darakians> side note, your wiki is locked the fuck down isn't it?
Dec 19 19:15:17 <ShiftyAxel> webos-image-tuna.ext2 and zImage-tuna.fastboot are what you'll be wanting
Dec 19 19:15:20 <ShiftyAxel> yes, yes it is
Dec 19 19:15:28 <ShiftyAxel> far too many bots trying to create fake accounts
Dec 19 19:15:55 <ShiftyAxel> though for future reference, you should build webos-dev-image instead of webos-image
Dec 19 19:16:10 <ShiftyAxel> that way you can ssh/scp things to device for debugging
Dec 19 19:16:33 <Darakians> both there, and noted
Dec 19 19:16:45 <Darakians> I was just going to add the location to look for the image
Dec 19 19:17:01 <Darakians> there's nothing on the wiki about where the image comes out
Dec 19 19:17:13 <ShiftyAxel> got a wiki account?
Dec 19 19:17:18 <Darakians> yep
Dec 19 19:17:24 <ShiftyAxel> username?
Dec 19 19:17:25 <ShiftyAxel> I can upgrade you to human
Dec 19 19:17:32 <Darakians> http://webos-ports.org/wiki/User:Darakian
Dec 19 19:18:11 <ShiftyAxel> congratulations, you are now human
Dec 19 19:18:14 <Darakians> woot
Dec 19 19:18:25 <Darakians> it's like being birthed all ofer again :')
Dec 19 19:18:30 <Darakians> over*
Dec 19 19:23:19 <oil> http://bit.ly/12pHXVa
Dec 19 19:24:45 <Darakians> that looks about right
Dec 19 19:24:52 <oil> heh
Dec 19 19:25:10 <ShiftyAxel> and I am now even more deeply disturbed than usual :)
Dec 19 19:25:28 <EricBlade> thanks for taking the time to note that , Darakians .. i had to search for it yesterday too and didnt' even think to add it
Dec 19 19:26:42 * EricBlade welcomes mr_bono
Dec 19 19:26:58 <Darakians> ya sure thing. I need a phone so, I need this project to get moving
Dec 19 19:27:01 <Darakians> :)
Dec 19 19:30:10 <mr_bono> thanks, EricBlade :)
Dec 19 19:30:52 <mr_bono> is there a canned Open WebOS image that I could test drive on my HP Touchpad?  (currently running: moboot, CWM, WebOS, CM9)
Dec 19 19:31:12 <mr_bono> if I need to build everything, that's ok, but I'd hate to waste time if there are canned images..
Dec 19 19:31:37 <ShiftyAxel> there are no OWO images for the HP Touchpad
Dec 19 19:31:49 <mr_bono> ok
Dec 19 19:31:57 <ShiftyAxel> further to that, webOS Ports isn't porting OWO to the HP touchpad
Dec 19 19:32:05 <ShiftyAxel> we're focusing on newer devices, like the GNex
Dec 19 19:32:06 <mr_bono> crap
Dec 19 19:32:58 <HaDAk> it's a drivers issue. it probably won't happen any time soon, if at all, i'm sure.
Dec 19 19:33:14 <ka6sox-away> morning
Dec 19 19:33:17 <mr_bono> well, rebuilding the OS from scratch isn't a requirement for me.. I guess I'll just have to build libs/apps to install on a "non open" WebOS installation
Dec 19 19:33:33 <ka6sox-away> hiya Oil
Dec 19 19:33:34 <ShiftyAxel> aha, just the man to clarify the matter, mr ka6sox-away
Dec 19 19:33:44 <ka6sox-away> who? what?
Dec 19 19:34:04 <ShiftyAxel> just trying to explain why ports aren't porting to the touchpad
Dec 19 19:34:15 <ShiftyAxel> drivers, kernel, old HW, etc
Dec 19 19:34:27 <Stskeeps> i'm not entirely sure why you're not, though :P libhybris works fine on there
Dec 19 19:34:31 <ShiftyAxel> mr_bono: open webos can be compiled on desktop, if you wanted to devlop for it on there
Dec 19 19:34:59 <mr_bono> you mean to run Open WebOS rather than say, Ubuntu?
Dec 19 19:35:05 <HaDAk> OWO isn't an OS at this point. It's a shell, afiak
Dec 19 19:35:11 <ka6sox-away> Stskeeps, focus...but yes, it would probably be possible with libHybris.
Dec 19 19:35:15 <Stskeeps> :nod:
Dec 19 19:35:28 <ShiftyAxel> HaDAk: all depends on your definition of an OS
Dec 19 19:35:35 <mr_bono> sounds cool, but I need to be able to build libs & apps for Touchpad, outside of CyanogenMod
Dec 19 19:35:52 <ShiftyAxel> mr_bono: go for LunaCE then
Dec 19 19:35:54 <ka6sox-away> HaDAk, it *is* an OS...it boots, it handles files and it has user interaction...
Dec 19 19:36:02 <HaDAk> ShiftyAxel: owo won't run without some sort of underlying os
Dec 19 19:36:12 <ka6sox-away> HaDAk, what?
Dec 19 19:36:12 <mr_bono> what is that, ShiftyAxel?
Dec 19 19:36:15 * HaDAk isn't going to get into a philosophical debate right now
Dec 19 19:36:19 * HaDAk hates all people and things
Dec 19 19:36:24 <ShiftyAxel> HaDAk: neither would ubuntu, mint or OSX, think distro
Dec 19 19:36:49 <ShiftyAxel> mr_bono: it's a modified version of the system manager (user interface) for webOS 3.x on the Touchpad
Dec 19 19:37:02 <ShiftyAxel> adds more features, makes it nicer in general
Dec 19 19:37:30 <ka6sox-away> mr_bono, its a prettified and cleaner GUI for the TP
Dec 19 19:37:54 <mr_bono> interesting.. but will this allow me to write libs & apps in C?
Dec 19 19:38:23 <ShiftyAxel> I think that's already possible for TP... maybe
Dec 19 19:38:24 <mr_bono> I essentially want to use the Touchpad as a dev platform, more specifically as a training platform..
Dec 19 19:38:41 <EricBlade> you don't need to make any changes to the touchpad to be able to do that
Dec 19 19:38:47 <ShiftyAxel> have a look at the existing webos-internals stuff (preware etc) for 3.x, I believe some of those are C services
Dec 19 19:38:53 <mr_bono> in our company a couple of us are supposed to help customers integrate our API onto various customer platforms
Dec 19 19:39:09 <mr_bono> the only wrinkle being, in their great wisdom, we never have done one of these "integrations" ourselves..
Dec 19 19:39:55 <mr_bono> so I want to use the Linux-based WebOS as the platform to do this integration of our C libs, and build my own apps that statically link them
Dec 19 19:41:31 <EricBlade> shouldn't need to do much of anything with the operating system to be able to do things like that
Dec 19 19:42:07 <mr_bono> yeah, that would just have been a bonus, in case I bricked the tablet and was no longer able to restore the WebOS that was on it out of the box
Dec 19 19:42:24 <mr_bono> ..but maybe there are alternatives for that scenario that I was unaware of
Dec 19 19:46:18 <Darakians> so, sorry about the constant questions, but adb
Dec 19 19:46:36 <ShiftyAxel> ~asktoask
Dec 19 19:46:37 <Darakians> how do I push the image
Dec 19 19:47:02 <ShiftyAxel> adb push webos-dev-image.ext2 /storage/sdcard0/linux/rootfs.ext2
Dec 19 19:47:09 <ShiftyAxel> adb reboot-bootloader
Dec 19 19:47:11 <Darakians> gnex is rooted, but doesn't seem to be mounted (it's at the bootloader)
Dec 19 19:47:14 <ShiftyAxel> fastboot boot zImage-tuna.ext2
Dec 19 19:47:25 <ShiftyAxel> adb has to be done inside android
Dec 19 19:47:30 <ShiftyAxel> fastboot inside the bootloader
Dec 19 19:47:51 <Darakians> so, boot to android then run adb
Dec 19 19:48:33 <ShiftyAxel> yup
Dec 19 19:49:08 <Darakians> does it need to be a set up android environment?
Dec 19 19:49:26 <ShiftyAxel> USB debugging has to be enabled, other than that i think you're good
Dec 19 19:49:45 <Darakians> hmmm ok
Dec 19 19:58:19 <ka6sox> ShiftyAxel, its about to start.
Dec 19 19:58:24 <ka6sox> (theoretically)
Dec 19 20:02:51 * ShiftyAxel braces for carnage
Dec 19 20:03:01 <ShiftyAxel> in the meantime, i'll knock together that app template
Dec 19 20:03:43 <ShiftyAxel> ka6sox: can you make a webos-ports-template repo on github please?
Dec 19 20:09:47 <ka6sox> ShiftyAxel, that is its name or webos-ports/template
Dec 19 20:10:01 <ShiftyAxel> that is it's name
Dec 19 20:10:05 <ka6sox> or webos-ports/webos-ports-template
Dec 19 20:10:05 <ShiftyAxel> to go along with webos-ports-lib
Dec 19 20:10:16 <ShiftyAxel> definately webos-ports-template
Dec 19 20:10:51 <ka6sox> created
Dec 19 20:10:55 <ka6sox> adn setup
Dec 19 20:11:03 <ka6sox> s/adn/and/
Dec 19 20:11:13 <ka6sox> silly bot..MIA
Dec 19 20:11:23 <ka6sox> scoutcamper, can you find the wayward bot?
Dec 19 20:15:19 <ShiftyAxel> ty ka6sox, i'll be pushing shortly
Dec 19 20:15:32 <Darakians> thank you all for your help. I've either just bricked a gnex or will have webos soon :D
Dec 19 20:16:51 <Darakians> er... maybe not
Dec 19 20:17:08 <ka6sox> did you install CWR?
Dec 19 20:18:21 <Darakians> so, I'm at the fastboot step and it's just "waiting for device"
Dec 19 20:27:23 <ShiftyAxel> and your device is in bootloader mode?
Dec 19 20:31:16 <Darakians> got it working
Dec 19 20:31:39 <Darakians> not really sure what changed but it accepted the fastboot command
Dec 19 20:31:44 <Darakians> ya it was
Dec 19 20:33:05 <Darakians> I can't ssh into the non dev image can I....
Dec 19 20:33:32 <ka6sox> no
Dec 19 20:33:46 <Darakians> do I need to ssh in to touch that file?
Dec 19 20:37:52 <Roy__> How goes the hackathon?
Dec 19 20:42:27 <Darakians> so I think trying to boot my gnex crashed my ubuntu system
Dec 19 20:42:30 <ka6sox> its on!
Dec 19 20:42:42 <Darakians> that or ubuntu just randomly goes down
Dec 19 20:43:54 <swisstomcat> hi
Dec 19 20:43:59 <swisstomcat> ready for some preware hacking?
Dec 19 20:44:41 <ShiftyAxel> HACKATHOOOOON
Dec 19 20:44:43 <ShiftyAxel> WOO
Dec 19 20:46:11 <sugardave> there, that is better
Dec 19 20:46:26 * HaDAk cheers for all the developers giving their time today
Dec 19 20:46:35 * HaDAk showers everybody in women and money
Dec 19 20:46:50 <HaDAk> note: women can be sold for money, if you're not into women
Dec 19 20:46:53 <swisstomcat> has anyone started?
Dec 19 20:46:59 <HaDAk> note: money can be traded for women if you're not into money
Dec 19 20:48:18 <sugardave> I'll volunteer to work on Lumberjack UI conversion
Dec 19 20:48:58 <sugardave> also, is there a G+ hangout or something, or is everything being organized just in this channel?
Dec 19 20:49:04 <HaDAk> somebody can pick this up too, if they want
Dec 19 20:49:05 <HaDAk> vhttps://github.com/skipmeister123/preware-enyo2
Dec 19 20:49:07 <HaDAk> https://github.com/skipmeister123/preware-enyo2
Dec 19 20:51:18 <swisstomcat> ok, i'll take preware-enyo2
Dec 19 20:52:09 <swisstomcat> hadak: it's the easiest to take phonegap 2.2 for webos (and open webos)
Dec 19 20:52:26 <sugardave> ka6sox: is there a repo set up for the Lumberjack port effort?
Dec 19 20:52:46 <sugardave> oil: ^^^
Dec 19 20:53:02 <HaDAk> swisstomcat: i was just starting from scratch. there are plenty of bugs, and hardly any functionality. at least they layout looks decent.
Dec 19 20:54:59 <stbuehler> huh, what is going on tonight?
Dec 19 20:55:17 <HaDAk> stbuehler: hackathon
Dec 19 20:56:49 <HaDAk> stbuehler: converting all the mojo apps to enyo2
Dec 19 20:57:05 <stbuehler> what about the enyo1 apps?
Dec 19 20:57:33 <swisstomcat> which ones?
Dec 19 20:57:38 <swisstomcat> hadak: looks nice!
Dec 19 20:57:40 <HaDAk> mail, and such?
Dec 19 20:57:46 <swisstomcat> not the focus today
Dec 19 20:57:48 <HaDAk> swisstomcat: thanks. hopefully you can make some progress on it. :)
Dec 19 20:58:03 <stbuehler> so.. is there a list of projects one could work on? :)
Dec 19 20:58:03 <HaDAk> swisstomcat: at least you get the idea of where i was headed with it.
Dec 19 20:58:13 <HaDAk> http://www.webos-ports.org/wiki/Hackathon_Apps
Dec 19 20:58:31 <ShiftyAxel> sugardave: lumberjack sounds good! :)
Dec 19 20:58:57 <sugardave> loved lumberjack on my phone :)
Dec 19 20:59:20 <HaDAk> time for me to gtfo dodge.
Dec 19 20:59:23 <HaDAk> good luck guys
Dec 19 20:59:29 <HaDAk> swisstomcat: looking forward to what you come up with
Dec 19 20:59:46 <ShiftyAxel> sugardave, swisstomcat: this may be of help
Dec 19 20:59:46 <ShiftyAxel> https://github.com/webos-ports/webos-ports-template
Dec 19 21:00:11 <ShiftyAxel> it's a basic deployable enyo2 app template with a screen size-aware layout (needed for phones) and back gesture handling
Dec 19 21:00:21 <swisstomcat> nice, thanks
Dec 19 21:00:30 <ShiftyAxel> also it has an example of service calling
Dec 19 21:00:34 <ShiftyAxel> just whipped it up :)
Dec 19 21:00:36 <sugardave> awesome
Dec 19 21:01:16 <sugardave> is there one github organization to house all these repos, or should I just make my own?
Dec 19 21:03:24 <ShiftyAxel> sugardave: make your own for now, we'll look into organizing later
Dec 19 21:03:34 <sugardave> cool
Dec 19 21:03:35 <ArthurThornton> ShiftyAxel: Do you want to include my Enyo 2 AppMenu code with the webOS-ports bootplate project? https://github.com/ArthurThornton/enyo1-to-enyo2-kinds/wiki/AppMenu
Dec 19 21:03:36 <stbuehler> i guess preware and filemanage and so on will need services
Dec 19 21:04:01 <swisstomcat> we should shift low-level webOS functionality to phonegap :)
Dec 19 21:04:18 <ShiftyAxel> also if anyone's already cloned webos-ports-template, you'll be wanting to git pull again- just updated to bring in arthur's latest PR
Dec 19 21:04:26 <swisstomcat> i can supply folks with the 2.3.0rc2 code
Dec 19 21:04:34 <swisstomcat> that has the app-menu code ...
Dec 19 21:04:46 <ShiftyAxel> eh, i'm not so hot on moving it over to phonegap
Dec 19 21:04:58 <stbuehler> whatever phonegap is
Dec 19 21:05:00 <ShiftyAxel> unnecessary overhead if you just want to deploy to webOS, which is the case with these core apps
Dec 19 21:05:27 <ShiftyAxel> stbuehler: phonegap is a wrapper that takes a webapp and outputs application packages for various mobile platforms
Dec 19 21:05:41 <ShiftyAxel> it has it's own APIs
Dec 19 21:05:56 <stbuehler> ah. well for low level apps this doesn't sound useful
Dec 19 21:06:26 <ShiftyAxel> good for third-party if the dev wants to go cross-platform, but for Ow core apps there's not really any point
Dec 19 21:06:48 <ShiftyAxel> ArthurThornton: unsure about that
Dec 19 21:07:00 <lukegb> I hear tell of a hackathon?
Dec 19 21:07:06 <ShiftyAxel> lukegb: welcome! yes indeed!
Dec 19 21:07:15 <stbuehler> and my next guess is that the services should be implemented with nodejs
Dec 19 21:07:20 <ShiftyAxel> http://webos-ports.org/wiki/Hackathon_Apps
Dec 19 21:07:22 <ShiftyAxel> yes indeed
Dec 19 21:07:40 <ShiftyAxel> that wikipage has the git repos for the mojo versions of those apps, which should have some services
Dec 19 21:08:03 <ShiftyAxel> i'm not sure how compatible with Ow they are, but probably useful regardless
Dec 19 21:08:10 <stbuehler> should the old (enyo1+nodejs) way of packaging still work, for example in the ow emulator?
Dec 19 21:08:13 <lukegb> I'm going to play my I-know-nothing-about-WebOS card ;)
Dec 19 21:08:19 <stbuehler> didn't try to install anything in the emulator yet
Dec 19 21:08:49 <ShiftyAxel> stbuehler: it's a lot simpler for Ow
Dec 19 21:09:03 <ShiftyAxel> just put the app folder in /usr/palm/applications/ with the correct name and appinfo.json
Dec 19 21:09:48 <ShiftyAxel> with the template/bootplate, you can run 'node enyo/tools/deploy.js' to generate a 'minified' version of the app which can be used for packaging/sending to device
Dec 19 21:10:33 <stbuehler> will the launcher pick up the new app directly or does it need  a restart?
Dec 19 21:10:38 <stbuehler> so many questions :)
Dec 19 21:10:39 <ShiftyAxel> needs a restart
Dec 19 21:10:50 <ShiftyAxel> I think there's a luna-send call you can use to force a rescan
Dec 19 21:11:21 <sugardave> this is a dupliforked template repo for Lumberjack: https://github.com/sugardave/webos-lumberjack-enyo
Dec 19 21:11:49 <ShiftyAxel> luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/rescan {}
Dec 19 21:12:19 <EricBlade> ShiftyAxel: as there is not currently a defined wrapper for making things like service calls from Enyo 2, hopefully you are using some kind of a nice wrapper for that, that can be changed easily in case the interface were to change
Dec 19 21:12:41 <ShiftyAxel> EricBlade: I'm using jason's webos-ext for now, it's included with webos-ports-template
Dec 19 21:12:53 <swisstomcat> again, phonegap 2.2 has service call wrapper :)
Dec 19 21:13:37 <swisstomcat> navigator.service.request(...)
Dec 19 21:14:02 <ShiftyAxel> the thought of adding an API abstraction layer between enyo2 and webOS makes me cringe
Dec 19 21:14:22 <lukegb> ShiftyAxel: not enough abstraction. more abstraction!
Dec 19 21:14:27 <swisstomcat> why? there's no webos support layer in enyo2
Dec 19 21:14:40 <swisstomcat> so phonegap makes the most sense imho
Dec 19 21:14:54 <ka6sox> so we would need to use cordova then
Dec 19 21:15:11 <swisstomcat> cordova=phonegap
Dec 19 21:15:18 <ka6sox> :)
Dec 19 21:15:19 <ShiftyAxel> because webOS runs web applications, natively. just a nice, small folder in /usr/palm/applications.
Dec 19 21:15:25 <swisstomcat> cordova is the apache name, phonegap the adobe one .. same thing
Dec 19 21:15:36 <lukegb> we'd need to add plugin support for webos to cordova, but that's not really an issue
Dec 19 21:15:44 <EricBlade> i'm just pointing out that it's entirely possible that in the future of Open webOS, PalmSystemBridge might not necessarily work in the same way.
Dec 19 21:15:46 <ShiftyAxel> other platforms -need- a wrapper to run webapps as 'apps', so to speak, so it's necessary
Dec 19 21:16:21 <swisstomcat> right .. but for webOS you need  system support library
Dec 19 21:16:35 <EricBlade> ShiftyAxel: i think swisstomcat is saying that phonegap's layer of javascript that it injects may be the "standard" method
Dec 19 21:16:47 <ShiftyAxel> so we have webos-ext, does the same thing and is significantly more lightweight
Dec 19 21:16:47 <swisstomcat> why not use the same thing as on other platforms? most devs should be familiar with it
Dec 19 21:17:19 <swisstomcat> so use phonegap for all other platforms and webos-ext for webOS?
Dec 19 21:17:30 <swisstomcat> that doesn't make much sense for cross-platform work
Dec 19 21:17:52 <swisstomcat> of course if you target webOS only, then that makes the argument less compelling
Dec 19 21:18:01 <sugardave> well, these apps aren't really cross-platform, right?  They're specific to webOS
Dec 19 21:18:05 <ka6sox> does cordova support back gestures?
Dec 19 21:18:08 <ShiftyAxel> I can't see govnah becoming the #1 android cpu control app...
Dec 19 21:18:11 <EricBlade> swisstomcat: shifty isn't talking about cross-platform work .. but the whole thing does make sense, imo, because phonegap for webos is basically just some javascript stuff right
Dec 19 21:18:29 <swisstomcat> ericblade: yeah, that's all it is
Dec 19 21:18:39 <swisstomcat> ka6sox: not yet, but i'm ready to add it
Dec 19 21:18:41 <sugardave> I mean, is the goal to turn Preware into a cross-platform solution?
Dec 19 21:19:08 <swisstomcat> i'm the "owner" of phonegap/cordova for webOS ... full disclosure :)
Dec 19 21:19:09 <ka6sox> sugardave, have to ask the web people :D
Dec 19 21:19:12 <ShiftyAxel> Preware is the package manger for webOS
Dec 19 21:19:27 <ShiftyAxel> nay, app store equivalent at this point...
Dec 19 21:19:37 <swisstomcat> preware is webOS only
Dec 19 21:19:53 <sugardave> right....and not going to be supporting iOS/Android preware apps, right?  so for preware you could get away with not cordova
Dec 19 21:20:00 <sugardave> same for Lumberjack, I presume
Dec 19 21:20:07 <EricBlade> and being that swisstomcat is the owner of the webOS part of phonegap/cordova, that sounds about as close to the official "this is the official method of talking to PalmSystem/PalmServiceBridge for Enyo 2" as we've got right now
Dec 19 21:20:18 <sugardave> then there's that :)
Dec 19 21:20:26 <ShiftyAxel> same for pretty much everything on the hackathon apps list, they're all likely to be webOS-specific
Dec 19 21:20:44 <swisstomcat> exactly
Dec 19 21:20:57 <swisstomcat> but i didn't want it to put it that strongly :)
Dec 19 21:20:59 <ka6sox> things like Impostah make no sense on anything *but* webOS
Dec 19 21:21:11 <sugardave> right
Dec 19 21:21:17 <swisstomcat> feel free to use webos-ext if you want
Dec 19 21:21:40 <swisstomcat> my point is: if there's a standard way why not use that
Dec 19 21:21:51 <ShiftyAxel> webos-ext is ideally a stopgap until we can integrate service calls into webos-ports-lib
Dec 19 21:22:02 <EricBlade> It's not really about the webOS-ness of it.  PhoneGap is pretty tiny, doesn't do any of the native stuff that it does on other platforms, when on webOS.  But it is the thing that will be updated if / when the Open webOS interface to the system changes.
Dec 19 21:22:06 <ShiftyAxel> but that requires new code, so long way off
Dec 19 21:22:13 <ArthurThornton> And in some ways phonegap/cordova make more sense - one library as opposed to several (webOS-ext, the BackGesture thing, webOS-ports-lib, and my AppMenu kind)
Dec 19 21:22:43 <swisstomcat> my point
Dec 19 21:23:05 <ka6sox> ArthurThornton, swisstomcat unless we get things into the official phonegap libs then we will have to have all those libs
Dec 19 21:23:07 <ShiftyAxel> it kind of goes against the modular nature of enyo though, no?
Dec 19 21:23:39 <swisstomcat> the point is to get as much stuff into phonegap as possible
Dec 19 21:23:43 <ka6sox> so if swisstomcat wants to incorporate then into the official PhoneGap stuff then we go that way.
Dec 19 21:24:16 <swisstomcat> phonegap is framework agnostic
Dec 19 21:24:34 <swisstomcat> enough arguments, i want to start coding :)
Dec 19 21:24:35 <ArthurThornton> ShiftyAxel: well...there could be a kind called "webOS.Service" which is an enyo.Component communicating through PhoneGap/Cordova as opposed to directly with the service bridge
Dec 19 21:25:12 <stbuehler> no; in that case the kind should be named phonegap.service
Dec 19 21:25:15 <EricBlade> or just use webos-ext and update it yourselves if / when the interfaces change :)
Dec 19 21:25:22 <stbuehler> if you name it webos.service, you might as well use webos apis directly
Dec 19 21:25:22 <swisstomcat> feel free to copy: https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf?p=cordova-js.git;a=blob;f=lib/webos/plugin/webos/service.js;h=55ad1445b097b804c1e946ce6c752ca8cef2bd2a;hb=c46b14085ce80cda5f72d6af22bc22afe4c2151d
Dec 19 21:25:41 <swisstomcat> it's all open-source ...
Dec 19 21:26:27 <ArthurThornton> I'm just saying in that case it's a webOS-specific component so it could be named webOS.Service..I'm not suggesting a way to do this, just indicating that the argument of being against Enyo's modular way isn't accurate, especially since Enyo works very well with PhoneGap and recommends it for x-plat development
Dec 19 21:27:01 <lukegb> so what, enyo for UI + phonegap for actually hitting hitting services?
Dec 19 21:27:01 <ka6sox> converting this all to 1 backend lib is 2ondary to getting them out of Mojo into Enyo2 at this point I think.
Dec 19 21:27:09 <swisstomcat> so which part of preware should i look at first? service calls?
Dec 19 21:27:30 <ka6sox> yes, that would be best...making it pretty should be 2ondary :D
Dec 19 21:28:08 <swisstomcat> the first scene is package updates,available packages,installed packages,list of everything .. where does that come from?
Dec 19 21:28:11 <ArthurThornton> ka6sox: that's a bit tough for me to read now after all of the time I've spent on Sparrow/sprw ;)
Dec 19 21:28:33 <lukegb> swisstomcat: ipkgservice.c?
Dec 19 21:28:41 <lukegb> org.webosinternals.ipkgservice afaict
Dec 19 21:29:18 <ka6sox> morning pc-world
Dec 19 21:29:29 <oil> it comes from the list of packages in memory
Dec 19 21:29:40 <pc-world> hi ka6sox :)
Dec 19 21:29:45 <swisstomcat> so if i test on a touchpad with preware, that service should already be installed, right?
Dec 19 21:29:59 <ArthurThornton> I'm not going to be able to do too much today - heading back East...but in around 22-24 hours I'll be available for some hackathon stuff ... will it still be open then? :)
Dec 19 21:29:59 <swisstomcat> so i'd need to talk to that service
Dec 19 21:30:23 <ka6sox> ArthurThornton, yes
Dec 19 21:30:30 <ka6sox> its open till we get them done :D
Dec 19 21:30:43 <ArthurThornton> (I *might* be able to get some coding done at the airport tonight but am not entirely certain)
Dec 19 21:31:03 <pc-world> ArthurThornton: consider the amount of time (weeks, months) needed to port all these apps... so, this seems more like an open-ended "hackathon" :P
Dec 19 21:31:04 <lukegb> yeah, app/models/IPKGService.js has all the callbacks into ipkgservice, and packagesModel.parsePackages takes some rawdata and parses it out, but it also seems to cache the ipkg data locally (speed, I assume?)
Dec 19 21:31:14 <ArthurThornton> ka6sox: *that* long?! ;)
Dec 19 21:31:24 <swisstomcat> ok, i'll look at that first and test it
Dec 19 21:31:39 <oil> it doesnt cache the data
Dec 19 21:31:48 <lukegb> oh, indeed
Dec 19 21:31:55 <oil> well, unless you consider an array in memory a cache
Dec 19 21:32:30 <swisstomcat> sorta :)
Dec 19 21:33:50 <lukegb> oil: huh... so what does packageDB store... *investigates*
Dec 19 21:34:11 <oil> that may be the saved package list
Dec 19 21:34:17 <lukegb> mhm
Dec 19 21:34:29 <ArthurThornton> Well, luckily I've got quite a bit of experience porting Enyo 1 -> Enyo 2 ... now to do the Mojo -> Enyo 2 porting (which I was planning to do for another app of mine anyway)..
Dec 19 21:34:31 <lukegb> OH, gotcha
Dec 19 21:34:47 <oil> yeah, thats not used in normal operation
Dec 19 21:34:53 <pc-world> just my opinion, but Preware should be completely rewritten instead of just "ported" to Enyo 2
Dec 19 21:35:16 <pc-world> because Preware's code is a mess (at least what I've seen so far)
Dec 19 21:35:24 <swisstomcat> pc-world: agree, but we have start somewhere
Dec 19 21:35:33 <swisstomcat> e.g the service calls
Dec 19 21:35:46 <ShiftyAxel> 'porting' from mojo to enyo2 is pretty much purely UI
Dec 19 21:35:46 <lukegb> swisstomcat: preware installs the service with it
Dec 19 21:35:58 <ShiftyAxel> they both talk to the same kind of services
Dec 19 21:36:21 <swisstomcat> i didn't mean the service, the service calls from the app
Dec 19 21:36:34 <pc-world> but Preware's UI is probably more effort than the backend-stuff
Dec 19 21:37:00 <ShiftyAxel> ka6sox: did I read something about ipkgservice needing to be modified for Ow?
Dec 19 21:37:05 <oil> its ui is basically a list of packages
Dec 19 21:37:18 <ShiftyAxel> something about changing over to opkg or something...?
Dec 19 21:37:44 <swisstomcat> let's test on 3.0.5 for now?
Dec 19 21:37:50 <lukegb> apologies if I'm asking dumb questions, but are service calls restricted to specific apps?
Dec 19 21:38:05 <ShiftyAxel> lukegb: no, my settings app uses the same calls as the palm settings apps
Dec 19 21:38:19 <lukegb> I'm thinking that random apps calling restartDevice on ipkgservice, for example, would be bloody annoying
Dec 19 21:38:30 <lukegb> or do you just have to trust the app author? :P
Dec 19 21:38:35 <ShiftyAxel> swisstomcat: I say develop on whatever hardware you have, since 3.0.5 has working ipkgservice that sounds like a good route for preware
Dec 19 21:39:00 <swisstomcat> yeah, i'm using a touchpad
Dec 19 21:39:03 <oil> lukegb: trust
Dec 19 21:39:04 <ShiftyAxel> lukegb: there's a permissions service, but I don't think it's functional under Ow
Dec 19 21:39:18 <ShiftyAxel> under 3.0.5 only com.palm apps can use certain services
Dec 19 21:39:37 <pc-world> what about an ipk that extracts Mojo from a webOS doctor? that would make Mojo apps work on Open webOS
Dec 19 21:39:55 <sugardave> pc-world: don't make me smack you
Dec 19 21:40:01 <ShiftyAxel> pc-world: this has been discussed, but this hackathon is about porting from mojo to enyo
Dec 19 21:40:05 <ShiftyAxel> *enyo2
Dec 19 21:40:27 <pc-world> (this suggestion wasn't related to any hackathon)
Dec 19 21:40:52 <ShiftyAxel> okay
Dec 19 21:40:53 * swisstomcat smacks pc-world with a wet trout
Dec 19 21:41:03 <stbuehler> :D
Dec 19 21:41:15 <ShiftyAxel> well, a meta-mojo has been discussed before, and is probably doable for compatibility
Dec 19 21:41:16 <pc-world> okay not so many Mojo fans in here...
Dec 19 21:41:22 <ShiftyAxel> :)
Dec 19 21:41:25 <stbuehler> i guess ow isn't ready to run apps with services yet
Dec 19 21:41:25 <ArthurThornton> pc-world: I agree. when I said "porting" I didn't mean literally taking one codebase and updating it - even with Sparrow -> sprw I reused very little code and rewrote it for performance/other enhancements
Dec 19 21:41:30 * oil <3'd mojo
Dec 19 21:41:36 <stbuehler> it isn't ready to run enyo2 apps either
Dec 19 21:41:54 <ShiftyAxel> stbuehler: tell that to my functioning settings app and port of memos :P
Dec 19 21:42:12 * halfhalo burns mojo
Dec 19 21:42:25 * oil pushes halfhalo onto the fire
Dec 19 21:42:31 * ShiftyAxel nails mojo to a vending machine and sets it on fire
Dec 19 21:42:55 <Darakians> webOS has officially lost its mojo
Dec 19 21:43:02 <pc-world> lol
Dec 19 21:43:02 <pc-world> Mojo is a real mess, but Enyo has some design problems too
Dec 19 21:43:05 <ShiftyAxel> BAH-DUM pish
Dec 19 21:43:20 <Darakians> insert austin powers picture here
Dec 19 21:43:34 <swisstomcat> pc-world: we'd love to hear about the design problems ...
Dec 19 21:43:48 * ShiftyAxel gets some popcorn and a large sofa
Dec 19 21:43:54 <sugardave> so, I have oil's initial Enyo 1 Lumberjack...y'all want me to keep that app ID?  org.webosinternals.lumberjack is the current one
Dec 19 21:43:59 <pc-world> swisstomcat: in Java language you'd say, only instance variables, but no local variables
Dec 19 21:44:13 <ShiftyAxel> sugardave: I'd go with org.webosports.app.<name>
Dec 19 21:44:22 <sugardave> roger
Dec 19 21:44:32 <ShiftyAxel> heck, I should probably add that to the wikipage
Dec 19 21:44:39 <pc-world> you can't create local "objects" in Enyo... all "objects" have to be in the components block
Dec 19 21:44:58 <Darakians> is that a real problem?
Dec 19 21:45:00 * oil noticed he originally wrote 60% of the apps in the hackathon :P
Dec 19 21:45:39 <oil> nice to see webos-ports has more js devs then wosi did
Dec 19 21:45:46 <sugardave> oil: I <3'd Mojo, too....until Enyo came along
Dec 19 21:46:08 <swisstomcat> oil rocks
Dec 19 21:46:17 * oil blushes
Dec 19 21:46:17 <sugardave> pc-world: what do you mean?
Dec 19 21:46:26 <lukegb> I suck at JS :D
Dec 19 21:46:30 * lukegb writes horrific JS
Dec 19 21:46:36 <pc-world> sugardave: I guess this is off-topic for #webos-ports
Dec 19 21:47:14 <pc-world> lukegb: that's because JavaScript per se is a very... strange language :D
Dec 19 21:47:28 <oil> strange in a good way
Dec 19 21:47:39 <swisstomcat> so let's test this sucker and actually make a service-call (replaced all the mojo.service.request with navigator.service.request)
Dec 19 21:47:42 <halfhalo> off topic is what I do best.
Dec 19 21:47:54 <pc-world> oil: yup, I noticed this when I started webOS development, that JS is actually very powerful
Dec 19 21:48:00 <oil> like passing a function to a function which returns a function :)
Dec 19 21:48:09 <oil> insert "yo dawg" meme picture
Dec 19 21:49:39 <ShiftyAxel> pc-world: define local objects? I've been using a JS object as a member of my app via myObject: {key: "value"}
Dec 19 21:49:43 <lukegb> oil: nah, that's just fun
Dec 19 21:49:47 <ShiftyAxel> inside the app, but not the components block
Dec 19 21:49:48 <pc-world> but what I really can't stand is this asynchronous stuff...
Dec 19 21:49:50 <lukegb> I like doing that in Go, for instance :P
Dec 19 21:49:55 <halfhalo> async ftw
Dec 19 21:49:58 <lukegb> pc-world: callbacks! callbacks are fun! :P
Dec 19 21:50:02 <sugardave> +1
Dec 19 21:50:03 * oil throws async out the window
Dec 19 21:50:03 <ShiftyAxel> callbacks are EVIL
Dec 19 21:50:04 <pc-world> ShiftyAxel: I mean "Enyo components" by "objects"
Dec 19 21:50:09 <ShiftyAxel> until you learn how they work :)
Dec 19 21:50:09 <stbuehler> async is fun. callbacks... not always :)
Dec 19 21:50:10 <halfhalo> also, passing callbacks from server to server is even runner
Dec 19 21:50:29 <stbuehler> pc-world: you can create enyo objects wherever you want
Dec 19 21:50:42 <ShiftyAxel> easiest debugging ever for JS callbacks: enyo.log(inResponse);
Dec 19 21:50:55 * sugardave creates enyo.Sun and enyo.Moon.
Dec 19 21:50:56 <pc-world> stbuehler: only if they inherit from enyo.Object, but not if they inherit from enyo.Component
Dec 19 21:50:57 <ShiftyAxel> then you just need to figure out where to put the data you're given
Dec 19 21:51:38 <ShiftyAxel> enyo.kind({kind: enyo.Component}) not do what you want?
Dec 19 21:51:43 <stbuehler> pc-world: well, you'd better specify a parent and owner iirc. but i think you can create them without too
Dec 19 21:51:49 <pc-world> do some I/O stuff, and you'll have a dozen functions with each one line... that's how I see callbacks
Dec 19 21:52:17 <pc-world> stbuehler: e.g. for HTTP requests I don't think it makes much sense making the HTTP object "global"
Dec 19 21:52:47 <pc-world> ShiftyAxel: for enyo.Component you have to specify a "parent"
Dec 19 21:53:15 <pc-world> you can't just do var request = new HttpComponentSomething(); request.call("http://google.com/");
Dec 19 21:53:23 <stbuehler> pc-world: the main control you create to start your app doesn't have owner/parent
Dec 19 21:53:35 * ShiftyAxel buries his head in luna-sysmgr
Dec 19 21:53:46 <sugardave> pc-world: you can do that, unless I'm mis-understanding
Dec 19 21:54:08 * lukegb sets fire to luna-sysmgr with ShiftyAxel's head inside
Dec 19 21:54:10 <pc-world> stbuehler: yes, but you can't create an object of it and call methods... you just call MyMainComponent.renderInto or something like that
Dec 19 21:54:29 <pc-world> sugardave: only if they inherit from enyo.Object and not from enyo.Component, afaik
Dec 19 21:54:42 <sugardave> everything inherits from enyo.Object, though
Dec 19 21:55:02 <sugardave> Object -> Component -> UiComponent -> Control
Dec 19 21:55:05 <pc-world> sugardave: yes, but enyo.Component destroys the ability of just creating a "local" instance
Dec 19 21:55:21 <rwhitby> HaDAk: total material cost for Nexus 7 touchstone mod was less than $20
Dec 19 21:55:25 <stbuehler> pc-world: you can call methods. i think only event handling will be difficult - normally events would get dispatched to the bubbletarget (parent or owner, depending on kind)
Dec 19 21:56:31 <pc-world> stbuehler: right, that's another problem that I can only pass strings (with a function name) for event handlers in components
Dec 19 21:58:03 <stbuehler> pc-world: you could try new enyo.WebService({onResponse:"handleResponse", handleResponse: function() { ... } }).send(...);
Dec 19 21:58:56 <pc-world> stbuehler: for HTTP requests, there's luckily something that inherits directly from enyo.Object (in Enyo 1 at least)
Dec 19 21:59:29 <ArthurThornton> For that you'd need to do a handlers block (i.e. new enyo.WebService({handlers: {onResponse:"handleResponse}, handleResponse: function() {...} }).send(...);
Dec 19 22:00:04 <ArthurThornton> Yeah, with Enyo you can also just use enyo.Ajax (which has .response(callbackFunc) and .error(callbackFunc) method to add callbacks)
Dec 19 22:00:07 <stbuehler> pc-world: http://enyojs.com/api/#enyo.Ajax still in enyo2
Dec 19 22:00:19 <swisstomcat> first attempt of my app crashes :/
Dec 19 22:00:23 <halfhalo> unrelated to hackathon announcement:  I will give the first person who makes mesa spit out egl binaries that work with lsm 1 million monopoly dollars.
Dec 19 22:00:53 <pc-world> halfhalo: free shipment included?
Dec 19 22:01:07 <halfhalo> digital delivery
Dec 19 22:01:16 <pc-world> I want monopoly paper money
Dec 19 22:01:34 <pc-world> uh, this enyojs api doc takes a few minutes to load o.O
Dec 19 22:01:43 <halfhalo> then i want mesa to work with gles as well.
Dec 19 22:01:44 <pc-world> (at least it feels like a few minutes)
Dec 19 22:01:51 <ShiftyAxel> pc-world: use a local version?
Dec 19 22:01:56 <ShiftyAxel> much faster than waiting on the web one
Dec 19 22:02:09 <swisstomcat> pc-world: because it's scans the source code of enyo :)
Dec 19 22:02:43 <pc-world> swisstomcat: there should be some message that it might take a minute or two... newbies will close the site after a few seconds
Dec 19 22:02:50 <rwhitby> morning
Dec 19 22:03:04 <ShiftyAxel> pc-world: you should tweet that at unwiredbed
Dec 19 22:03:08 <ShiftyAxel> *unwiredben
Dec 19 22:03:16 <pc-world> lol bed
Dec 19 22:03:22 <ShiftyAxel> it's unwired!
Dec 19 22:03:38 <rwhitby> oil: and I did the other 40% ?
Dec 19 22:03:38 <stbuehler> ShiftyAxel: do you have any pointers how to debug enyo2 apps on ow? can't get mine running (http://hexagon-match.stbuehler.de/, https://github.com/stbuehler/hexagon-match)
Dec 19 22:04:04 <lukegb> ka6sox: you get a gold star for truncating the topic! ;)
Dec 19 22:04:13 <ka6sox> heh
Dec 19 22:04:20 <ShiftyAxel> lukegb: my suggestion, so apportion me some of that there blame :P
Dec 19 22:04:26 <rwhitby> swisstomcat: if you have any questions about how the ipkgservice works, or what data it returns, don't hesitate to ping me
Dec 19 22:04:29 <oil> the other 40% was tweaks and internalz
Dec 19 22:04:29 <ka6sox> and I'll be the guy who has to fix it too...
Dec 19 22:04:29 <ShiftyAxel> stbuehler: what steps are you taking to get it into Ow?
Dec 19 22:04:43 <rwhitby> oil: ah, good, so I did none ;)
Dec 19 22:05:05 * rwhitby always did the hidden bits that did all the work :)
Dec 19 22:05:08 <oil> certainly not how i meant it :)
Dec 19 22:05:24 <stbuehler> ShiftyAxel: created an appinfo.json, copied all to /usr/palm/a../de.stbuehler.hexagon-match, rescanned. i see the icon, start it, but it doesn't go fullscreen
Dec 19 22:05:29 <rwhitby> oil: any JS I wrote was usually just a cut and paste of your code anyway
Dec 19 22:05:34 <oil> lol
Dec 19 22:06:08 <ka6sox> anythign I ever did never saw the light of day anyways...
Dec 19 22:06:15 <stbuehler> ShiftyAxel: 2012-12-20T05:44:59.962886Z [1986] qemux86 user.err mojodb-luna[1016]: [core.messageService] kind not registered: 'com.palm.contextupload:1' (-3970) - sender='com.palm.eventreporter.WebAppMgr' method='put' payload='{"objects":[{"_kind":"com.palm.contextupload:1","appid":"de.stbuehler.hexagon-match","event":"launch"}]}'
Dec 19 22:06:39 <ShiftyAxel> stbuehler: that's a normal error
Dec 19 22:06:49 <ShiftyAxel> what's your appid in appinfo.json?
Dec 19 22:06:49 <stbuehler> that was the only error. and i have no idea what to make of it. can nopaste the other 10-20 lines if you want
Dec 19 22:06:51 <pc-world> rwhitby: when I looked through the Preware JS code, it just looked like there were three copies of each file, with different variable names ;P
Dec 19 22:07:27 <rwhitby> pc-world: yep, organically designed
Dec 19 22:07:30 <oil> lol
Dec 19 22:07:37 <stbuehler> ShiftyAxel: app id matches the dirname, de.stbuehler.hexagon-match
Dec 19 22:07:43 <ShiftyAxel> hmm
Dec 19 22:07:51 <stbuehler> that was the first error i got :)
Dec 19 22:07:58 <ShiftyAxel> I think the issue may lie in copying the entire directory over
Dec 19 22:08:11 <ka6sox> I could say "if only" about Mojo but that wouldn't help...
Dec 19 22:08:12 <ShiftyAxel> try running 'node enyo/tools/deploy.js' from your app dir
Dec 19 22:08:29 <stbuehler> yes, sry. i run deploy, and copied the deploy folder (with appinfo)
Dec 19 22:08:33 <ShiftyAxel> hrm
Dec 19 22:08:41 <pc-world> stbuehler: weinre is a nice way to do remote JS debugging... though I'm not sure if it will load in your case
Dec 19 22:09:10 <stbuehler> pc-world: if i don't get any output i don't see how a debugger would help :D
Dec 19 22:09:26 <ShiftyAxel> stbuehler: can you start luna, open the launcher and then collect all the logs from tapping the icon through loading?
Dec 19 22:09:28 <pc-world> stbuehler: a debugger can (usually) show JS errors
Dec 19 22:09:31 <ShiftyAxel> pastebin them somewhere
Dec 19 22:09:33 * oil always likes to look back at the original design mockup Templarian did http://www.webos-internals.org/images/5/57/OPS_App_Mockup1.png
Dec 19 22:09:34 <rwhitby> For those who missed it yesterday: Nexus 7 touchstone mod: http://goo.gl/KMy8n
Dec 19 22:09:53 <ShiftyAxel> pc-world, stbuehler: JS errors are output to the syslog under Ow
Dec 19 22:10:03 <ShiftyAxel> you just have to root through (or grep)
Dec 19 22:10:06 <pc-world> or do JS error messages redirect to /var/log/messages? it's been a while since I last did webOS development
Dec 19 22:10:15 <EricBlade> i like to use the desktop webos build for open webos app stuff, since it's easy to start/restart/reload/refresh and errors in webapps go to it's console
Dec 19 22:10:15 <pc-world> oh ok
Dec 19 22:10:16 <ShiftyAxel> if you're running an OE build they do
Dec 19 22:10:23 <ka6sox> oil, interesting
Dec 19 22:10:32 <stbuehler> ShiftyAxel: but console.log is only available with debug, at least in the browser
Dec 19 22:10:41 <oil> ka6sox: thats pretty much all there was when i got to it
Dec 19 22:10:45 <ShiftyAxel> enyo.log, grasshoppa
Dec 19 22:10:53 <EricBlade> ShiftyAxel: i don't get errors in my /var/log/messages on my nexus .. ? ideas?
Dec 19 22:11:06 <EricBlade> not app errors anyway
Dec 19 22:11:07 <ShiftyAxel> tail -f /var/log/messages | grep 'appid'
Dec 19 22:11:17 <pc-world> at least in webOS, there was this palm-log --system-log-level info
Dec 19 22:11:20 <ShiftyAxel> trust me, they do show up
Dec 19 22:11:27 <ka6sox> oil: and now it is beautiful...I hope we can keep the essence of how nice it is.
Dec 19 22:11:30 <ShiftyAxel> they aren't very verbose
Dec 19 22:11:35 <pc-world> not sure if you still need to set the loggin level in OWOS
Dec 19 22:11:38 <ShiftyAxel> pc-world: Ow doesn't have that
Dec 19 22:11:41 <pc-world> *OwOS
Dec 19 22:11:47 <EricBlade> ShiftyAxel: i got nada, went to look for them so i could try to diagnose, and it wouldn't put any in
Dec 19 22:11:49 <ShiftyAxel> palm-log and friends are not present
Dec 19 22:11:52 <ka6sox> Ow
Dec 19 22:12:00 <EricBlade> ow
Dec 19 22:12:08 <pc-world> I know, but it's still possible that you have to set the logging level somehwo
Dec 19 22:12:09 <pc-world> *somehow
Dec 19 22:12:19 <ShiftyAxel> EricBlade: are you logging via enyo.log, or just looking for errors atm?
Dec 19 22:12:26 <lukegb> seriously, every time people say ow I think they're in pain ;)
Dec 19 22:12:35 <EricBlade> i was looking for errors, to see what the apps that don't start right were spewing
Dec 19 22:12:38 <ShiftyAxel> <O>pen <w>ebOS
Dec 19 22:12:56 <ShiftyAxel> EricBlade: com.palm.app.email then?
Dec 19 22:13:10 <EricBlade> i launched it, nothing logged
Dec 19 22:13:12 <pc-world> "Ow" sounds like... "ouch"
Dec 19 22:13:43 <ShiftyAxel> EricBlade: I think the email issue is more a service error, it runs just fine when it actually launches
Dec 19 22:14:58 <stbuehler> ShiftyAxel: http://paste.lighttpd.net/uc#4P9T1VHciwQR2bCAbXKyU2zZ
Dec 19 22:15:06 <EricBlade> normally, the logs are extremely chatty with apps though
Dec 19 22:15:34 <swisstomcat> stbuehler: are you using phonegap?
Dec 19 22:15:39 <ShiftyAxel> EricBlade: not in my experience
Dec 19 22:15:44 <stbuehler> swisstomcat: nope
Dec 19 22:15:55 <ShiftyAxel> stbuehler: you'll need something to call PalmSystem.stageReady()
Dec 19 22:15:57 <stbuehler> i use layered canvas (i think 3 layers)
Dec 19 22:16:31 <ShiftyAxel> enyo2 doesn't call that by default, so you can either do it manually or use webos-ext/webos-ports-template/phonegap
Dec 19 22:16:36 <swisstomcat> yeah, phonegap does that for you :)
Dec 19 22:17:10 <stbuehler> aaah.
Dec 19 22:17:31 <stbuehler> did i mention there should be a wiki where you gather all those small details
Dec 19 22:17:34 <stbuehler> ?
Dec 19 22:17:40 <swisstomcat> yeah, good idea
Dec 19 22:17:50 <swisstomcat> i'm also working on a blogpost how to package enyo2 apps for webos/owos
Dec 19 22:17:59 <lukegb> ShiftyAxel: yeah, I got how it was abbreviated :P
Dec 19 22:18:37 <stbuehler> thousand git repos, many bug trackers, forums, mailing lists, ow is pretty distributed. and you can't find any docs, i always have to go reading the source
Dec 19 22:18:58 <ShiftyAxel> I've added a link to webos-ports-template to http://webos-ports.org/wiki/Hackathon_Apps
Dec 19 22:19:11 <ka6sox> when these apps are done being "ported" they should all still work on the Touchpad.
Dec 19 22:19:12 <pc-world> the disadvantage of distributed VCS
Dec 19 22:19:18 <ShiftyAxel> other than that... yeah, it's pretty much down to the user's searching :P
Dec 19 22:19:35 <ShiftyAxel> +1 ka6sox
Dec 19 22:20:14 <stbuehler> ow should run on the touchpad...
Dec 19 22:20:16 <stbuehler> :)
Dec 19 22:20:24 <EricBlade> anyone who's tracking head on meta-webos, the installation of the fonts into the system should be showing up in a few minutes
Dec 19 22:20:28 <ShiftyAxel> stbuehler: let us know when you get it working :)
Dec 19 22:20:33 <ka6sox> it might
Dec 19 22:20:53 <ShiftyAxel> the service interfaces should be the same across CE and Ow for these apps, even if the services (may) differ
Dec 19 22:21:32 <pc-world> happy hacking - wish I had more time to work on some of this stuff
Dec 19 22:21:34 <ka6sox> LJ might be one of the easiest.
Dec 19 22:21:49 <stbuehler> ShiftyAxel: well, that is another problem. the "official" docs for "how to port" are... just stupid. i guess the main problem will be getting a kernel running that can work with hardware, and egl driver
Dec 19 22:22:19 <ka6sox> stbuehler, the thing is we have had to feel our way on this...
Dec 19 22:22:25 <ka6sox> in some ways we are ahead of the curve
Dec 19 22:22:29 <ka6sox> (on porting)
Dec 19 22:22:49 <ka6sox> and LibHybris is helping make this easier.
Dec 19 22:23:21 <ShiftyAxel> stbuehler: the issue is, there's not really any concrete way to 'port'
Dec 19 22:23:39 <ShiftyAxel> devices differ, different hardware, drivers, kernels, bootloaders, etcetcetc
Dec 19 22:27:25 <swisstomcat> hmm, why doesn't this work
Dec 19 22:27:26 <swisstomcat>     	var service=new IPKGService();     	service.version(this.showVersion);
Dec 19 22:27:39 <swisstomcat> error: Uncaught TypeError: Object #<an IPKGService> has no method 'version', source/InitialUpdate.js:25
Dec 19 22:27:51 <lukegb> hmm
Dec 19 22:29:01 <lukegb> swisstomcat: it's IPKGService.version
Dec 19 22:29:03 <ShiftyAxel> swisstomcat: in context, what is IPKGService?
Dec 19 22:29:19 <lukegb> note how everything is assigned onto IPKGService and not IPKGService.prototype?
Dec 19 22:29:23 <oil> a class which abstracts the calls to the service
Dec 19 22:29:28 * lukegb exercises his limited knowledge of JS
Dec 19 22:29:33 <ShiftyAxel> service is an IPKGService though, surely?
Dec 19 22:29:37 <ShiftyAxel> OOP
Dec 19 22:29:57 <ShiftyAxel> oil: a JS class?
Dec 19 22:30:19 <lukegb> ShiftyAxel: nope
Dec 19 22:30:21 <ShiftyAxel> I don't think I'm familiar with this method of serviceing
Dec 19 22:30:30 <lukegb> ShiftyAxel: it's just a class which CALLS the actual service
Dec 19 22:30:36 <oil> ShiftyAxel: yeah
Dec 19 22:30:39 <swisstomcat> IPKGService is ipkgservice.js from the mojo version, 1:1
Dec 19 22:30:50 <lukegb> swisstomcat: call it statically on IPKGService - don't instantiate it :P
Dec 19 22:30:54 <oil> well, javascripts approximation of a class
Dec 19 22:31:11 <lukegb> wait, what the hell
Dec 19 22:31:12 <sugardave> prototype ftw
Dec 19 22:31:15 <lukegb> IPKGService.identifier is set
Dec 19 22:31:19 <lukegb> and THEN IPKGService is defined?
Dec 19 22:31:33 <oil> swisstomcat: was ipkgservice ever instanced in preware? im not sure it was
Dec 19 22:31:35 <ShiftyAxel> I'm guessing that calling IPKGService is not the same as calling a palm service then?
Dec 19 22:31:45 <oil> it was always called IPKGService.method(args)
Dec 19 22:31:50 <lukegb> ShiftyAxel: nope - IPKGService is a class which wraps a ton of Mojo.Service.Request
Dec 19 22:32:00 <oil> though its been a year or so since ive looked at the preware code
Dec 19 22:32:30 <swisstomcat> oil: i just "assumed" that you were instanciating somewhere :)
Dec 19 22:32:32 <ShiftyAxel> well since we're porting things to enyo... perhaps it would be better to rewrite ipkgservice.js as an enyo kind first?
Dec 19 22:32:49 <lukegb> I assume it's going to become a phonegap plugin?
Dec 19 22:32:49 <ShiftyAxel> keep things consistent and all that
Dec 19 22:32:58 <lukegb> oh, unless. hmm.
Dec 19 22:33:22 <swisstomcat> error: Uncaught TypeError: Object #<an IPKGService> has no method 'version', source/InitialUpdate.js:25
Dec 19 22:33:32 <swisstomcat> hrmpf .. i feel stupid
Dec 19 22:33:41 <oil> swisstomcat: (now that ive looked at it) its just IPKGService.version = function(callback)
Dec 19 22:33:45 <oil> so you cant instance it like that
Dec 19 22:33:48 <oil> it snot .prototype.version
Dec 19 22:33:50 <lukegb> swisstomcat: yeah, I said that ^ :P
Dec 19 22:33:52 <lukegb> oops
Dec 19 22:33:54 <lukegb> oil: ^^^ :P
Dec 19 22:34:07 <oil> its a singleton
Dec 19 22:34:10 <swisstomcat> IPKGService.version(showVersion);
Dec 19 22:34:16 <swisstomcat> should work, right?
Dec 19 22:34:16 <oil> yeah
Dec 19 22:34:18 <lukegb> mhm
Dec 19 22:34:34 <swisstomcat> what's the sense of singletons?
Dec 19 22:34:38 <lukegb> it's a service
Dec 19 22:34:39 <lukegb> why not
Dec 19 22:34:51 * swisstomcat puts idiot hat on
Dec 19 22:35:05 <lukegb> angularjs singletons services, iirc
Dec 19 22:35:06 <oil> maybe thats not the right word
Dec 19 22:35:19 <lukegb> it's a one-of-a-kind object then! ;)
Dec 19 22:35:22 <oil> yeah
Dec 19 22:35:24 <oil> that
Dec 19 22:35:38 <lukegb> so, what the hell is an enyo Kind anyway
Dec 19 22:36:00 <oil> enyos version of a javascript class?
Dec 19 22:36:03 <lukegb> oh, a constructor-with-prototype.
Dec 19 22:36:09 <ShiftyAxel> lukegb: https://github.com/enyojs/enyo/wiki/Tutorial
Dec 19 22:36:26 <swisstomcat> enyo kinds are object constructors
Dec 19 22:36:35 <swisstomcat> or "factories"
Dec 19 22:38:05 <lukegb> I guess I should go grab owdesktop
Dec 19 22:38:28 <lukegb> oh great
Dec 19 22:38:44 <ka6sox> yup
Dec 19 22:38:54 <lukegb> it only builds under ubuntu? :<
Dec 19 22:39:46 <ShiftyAxel> yup
Dec 19 22:40:03 * lukegb tries to make it run on Arch anyway
Dec 19 22:40:05 <ShiftyAxel> webOS is a linux after all
Dec 19 22:40:07 <lukegb> bugs ahoy!
Dec 19 22:40:14 <ShiftyAxel> some have had success
Dec 19 22:40:16 <ka6sox> it *might* build under other things...but its been qualified under Ubuntu...
Dec 19 22:40:17 <ShiftyAxel> iirc
Dec 19 22:42:02 <EricBlade> some people build desktop on Arch. I don't know about everything else
Dec 19 22:44:12 <lukegb> for things like registering luna services, is that the same in ow?
Dec 19 22:45:04 <ShiftyAxel> lukegb: can you post a code example?
Dec 19 22:45:11 <ShiftyAxel> aka is this in-app or outside app?
Dec 19 22:45:21 <lukegb> e.g. the actual ipkgservice
Dec 19 22:45:23 <lukegb> https://github.com/webos-internals/preware/blob/master/src/ipkgservice.c
Dec 19 22:46:06 <ShiftyAxel> hmm
Dec 19 22:46:32 <ShiftyAxel> if compiled against Ow, it should theoretically be the same
Dec 19 22:47:15 <ShiftyAxel> the luna-service2 repo on github may provide better answers though
Dec 19 22:48:39 <lukegb> yay, ow desktop failed
Dec 19 22:49:39 <swisstomcat> \o/
Dec 19 22:49:40 <swisstomcat> [20121219-14:49:50.640374] info: result={"returnValue":true,"version":"1.9.12","apiVersion":"17"}, enyo/source/kernel/log.js:36
Dec 19 22:49:58 <oil> :)
Dec 19 22:50:56 <ShiftyAxel> ooh, I see interesting logs :D
Dec 19 22:51:03 <lukegb> ooh, pbnjson requires yajl1
Dec 19 22:51:22 <lukegb> screw this
Dec 19 22:51:23 <lukegb> VM time
Dec 19 22:51:26 <oil> lol
Dec 19 22:53:02 <swisstomcat> so, i can make service calls to ipkgservice from preware/enyo2 + phonegap
Dec 19 22:53:17 <lukegb> swisstomcat: is it a phonegap plugin? :P
Dec 19 22:53:40 <swisstomcat> no
Dec 19 22:54:05 <swisstomcat> i basically replaced mojo.service.request with navigator.service.Request
Dec 19 22:54:06 <swisstomcat> that's it
Dec 19 22:54:11 <lukegb> heh
Dec 19 22:55:04 <swisstomcat> well, it's kinda a "plugin"
Dec 19 22:55:19 <swisstomcat> but not in the usual phonegap plugin sense (where a plugin is a native thing)
Dec 19 22:55:34 <lukegb> mmm
Dec 19 22:56:27 <ShiftyAxel> swisstomcat: how big of a dependency on phonegap is your preware rewrite going to have?
Dec 19 22:56:39 <lukegb> intricate! say intricate! :P
Dec 19 23:00:23 <swisstomcat> shiftyaxel: total :D
Dec 19 23:01:26 <oil> does enyo2 still not have the palm service stuff enyo1 had?
Dec 19 23:01:35 <lukegb> don't think it does
Dec 19 23:01:36 <sugardave> no
Dec 19 23:01:43 <oil> thats kind of sad
Dec 19 23:01:53 <ShiftyAxel> well, I'd like to make it known that i'm not particularly comfortable shipping a -ports core app with phonegap
Dec 19 23:01:58 <Garfonso> for people working on preware: I did some work on preware in the past week. For example I did rewrite the IPKGService.js with enyo2 and I use webOS ext from the enyo2 gallery to convert the mojo.serviceRequest calls to something that should exist on ow.
Dec 19 23:02:04 <Garfonso> it's not tested on OW, though.
Dec 19 23:02:32 <ka6sox> Garfonso, do you have that posted somewhere we can look?
Dec 19 23:02:35 <ShiftyAxel> I have nothing against phonegap for cross-platform development, that's great
Dec 19 23:02:51 <ShiftyAxel> but for core webOS apps, there's simply no need for the overhead
Dec 19 23:03:05 <ShiftyAxel> they're core, therefore they should interface directly with webOS
Dec 19 23:03:07 <Garfonso> @oil: I think that is what webos ext adds: http://enyojs.com/gallery/#JayCanuck.webOSExt
Dec 19 23:03:16 <swisstomcat> where's the overhead in phonegap?
Dec 19 23:03:28 <Garfonso> yeah, forgot the link. Here it is: https://github.com/Garfonso/preware-enyo2
Dec 19 23:03:39 <ShiftyAxel> lots of cross-platform functionality that preware will never use?
Dec 19 23:03:41 <oil> Garfonso: looks like it
Dec 19 23:03:50 <Garfonso> in source/model I did a file to file conversion of some of the stuff that was in app\model
Dec 19 23:04:37 <ka6sox> okay can you PR this to webos-ports/preware
Dec 19 23:04:37 <Garfonso> today I was working on package.js which gives me some headaches.
Dec 19 23:05:02 <oil> Garfonso: like what?
Dec 19 23:05:34 <swisstomcat> phonegap-webos doesn't have any cross-platform stuff in it :)
Dec 19 23:05:39 <Garfonso> like it is on the one hand organizing all that package data and on the other hand generating list items and icon stuff with mojo methods.
Dec 19 23:05:49 <oil> yeah
Dec 19 23:05:58 <Garfonso> and it's a huge file, after all ;)
Dec 19 23:06:28 <Garfonso> @ka6sox: if you explain me what to do... ;)
Dec 19 23:06:43 <sugardave> I vote phonegap/cordova purely from a higher-level outlook...we encourage developers to use phonegap to deliver their Enyo apps on iOS/Android....I understand that is not necessary for the lion's share of the apps we're hacking on today.  But, IMO, it would be better to solidify around one solution than multiple different ones that essentially do the same thing
Dec 19 23:07:04 <ka6sox> except phonegap is missing things we are needing
Dec 19 23:07:18 <sugardave> I have the whip and swisstomcat is RIGHT in front of me
Dec 19 23:07:52 <oil> Garfonso: I'm the original author of all that stuff, so if any of it needs explaining I can try to give insight
Dec 19 23:08:05 <ka6sox> oil ++
Dec 19 23:08:22 <lukegb> ka6sox: you can't PR repos which don't share a common root, iirc
Dec 19 23:08:33 <lukegb> it doesn't make sense, after all :P
Dec 19 23:08:53 <ka6sox> he can diff the 2 repos and push up the diffs.
Dec 19 23:08:59 <lukegb> yeaahhhhh
Dec 19 23:09:34 <Garfonso> ok.. why do you load the icon in that way (package.js: iconInit, iconOnLoad, iconFill)? I'm still not really sure what that does... it's the icon in the list, isn't it?
Dec 19 23:09:49 <oil> its the icon everywhere
Dec 19 23:09:57 <oil> the icon is loaded in the package so the icon only needs to be downloaded once
Dec 19 23:10:04 <oil> and used everywhere the package is referenced
Dec 19 23:11:00 * rwhitby reckons we use Garfonso's service port
Dec 19 23:11:40 <ShiftyAxel> +1 rwhitby
Dec 19 23:12:02 <rwhitby> Garfonso: what's the status of it? what works and what doesn't?
Dec 19 23:12:29 <lukegb> his service port? you mean the code which basically just hits enyo.webOS.ServiceRequest? :P
Dec 19 23:12:46 <lukegb> that said
Dec 19 23:12:50 <lukegb> it is nicely de-duplicated
Dec 19 23:12:55 <swisstomcat> garfonso's service port is nice because it's using an enyo singleton :)
Dec 19 23:13:00 <Garfonso> actually it is not tested.
Dec 19 23:13:05 <oil> swisstomcat: :)
Dec 19 23:13:17 <Garfonso> yeah.. I like singletons. It's great enyo has them. :)
Dec 19 23:13:19 <swisstomcat> changing it to use phonegap instead of webos-ext is one line to change
Dec 19 23:13:33 <lukegb> (or viceversa)
Dec 19 23:13:39 <lukegb> if it had been using phonegap ;)
Dec 19 23:14:18 <swisstomcat> var request = new enyo.webOS.ServiceRequest({ -> var request=navigator.service.Request({
Dec 19 23:15:30 <Garfonso> what would be the steps necessary to test my stuff on an enyo2 devices? That's where I got lost a bit...
Dec 19 23:15:40 <Garfonso> not sure how to get the ipkgservice build and sutff.
Dec 19 23:15:42 <swisstomcat> phonegap :D
Dec 19 23:15:49 <ShiftyAxel> Garfonso: we'd have to get the service up and running on-device
Dec 19 23:15:52 <swisstomcat> it has a make file that does palm-package/install/run
Dec 19 23:16:02 <ShiftyAxel> Ow devices don't have novacom yet
Dec 19 23:16:10 <swisstomcat> i'm testing on my 3.0.5 touchpad which has preware installed
Dec 19 23:16:13 <ShiftyAxel> Garfonso: then install your application and see if we get output
Dec 19 23:16:25 <lukegb> huh
Dec 19 23:16:28 <lukegb> ShiftyAxel: why not? :<
Dec 19 23:16:30 <Garfonso> issue is that there is not much of a gui, right now
Dec 19 23:16:36 <ShiftyAxel> lukegb: hm?
Dec 19 23:16:39 <swisstomcat> for OW, you can copy over the app to rootfs/usr/palm/applications
Dec 19 23:16:41 <lukegb> (novacomd)
Dec 19 23:17:09 <ShiftyAxel> it's not really needed yet, kernel support needs to be added
Dec 19 23:17:22 <ShiftyAxel> we'll get there, but there are a fair few more important things first
Dec 19 23:17:31 <lukegb> delete usb transport, use inet for everything, boom :P (kekeke)
Dec 19 23:19:37 <ka6sox> with adb support +rndis we haven't supported novacomd because it wasn't here yet.
Dec 19 23:19:45 <ka6sox> (for porting)
Dec 19 23:21:22 <swisstomcat> so now that service calls work, what should be the next step? getting data from the service into a list in the UI?
Dec 19 23:21:36 <ShiftyAxel> pretty much
Dec 19 23:21:53 <Darakians> so, if I'm pushing a webos rom to a gnex and the fastboot just hangs....
Dec 19 23:21:58 <ShiftyAxel> a basic list of everything would be a nice first PoC
Dec 19 23:22:06 <Darakians> no usb interface shows up
Dec 19 23:22:47 <Garfonso> yeah.. a list would be nice... but there is a bit missing, still..
Dec 19 23:22:52 <oil> Garfonso: https://github.com/webos-internals/preware/blob/master/app/assistants/pkg-view-assistant.js#L70
Dec 19 23:22:53 <ShiftyAxel> Darakians: what steps are you taking?
Dec 19 23:23:11 <Darakians> the ones detailed on "testing the gnex" page
Dec 19 23:23:17 <Darakians> http://webos-ports.org/wiki/Testing_Gnex
Dec 19 23:23:37 <oil> where this.item is a package instance, and this.controller.get('icon' is a reference to the div to set its background to the icon
Dec 19 23:24:38 <Darakians> the sudo fastboot boot etc... goes and the gnex just shows me the google logo
Dec 19 23:24:49 <swisstomcat> so you load all the packages first via the service?
Dec 19 23:25:04 <lukegb> Darakians: are you sure the kernel's OK?
Dec 19 23:25:15 <lukegb> and that the rootfs is in the right place?
Dec 19 23:25:34 <Darakians> I followed the guide to a T. The image built without error
Dec 19 23:26:01 <oil> swisstomcat: in preware the first scene loads all the packages from the service and creates package objects in memory
Dec 19 23:26:41 <swisstomcat> allright
Dec 19 23:27:19 <swisstomcat> main-assistant?
Dec 19 23:27:33 <oil> no, update-
Dec 19 23:27:40 <Roy__> So...
Dec 19 23:27:48 <Roy__> How can I help?  Where can I jump in?
Dec 19 23:27:57 <oil> main- is the package updates, installed packages, etc list
Dec 19 23:33:52 <ka6sox> Roy__, I'm a Lumberjack :D
Dec 19 23:34:01 <lukegb> and you're OK
Dec 19 23:34:10 * lukegb waits for Ubuntu to install
Dec 19 23:34:10 <lukegb> slowly
Dec 19 23:34:23 <lukegb> I think it's hung :/
Dec 19 23:34:32 <ShiftyAxel> sleeps all night and works all day
Dec 19 23:34:47 <Garfonso> is there a way to prevent deploy.bat from minifying enyo everytime?
Dec 19 23:34:51 <ka6sox> Roy__, Lumberjack would be good as we could use the logs to debug things.
Dec 19 23:36:07 * lukegb steals Lumberjack
Dec 19 23:36:26 <ShiftyAxel> remember guys, please update the wiki page if you've started work on an app
Dec 19 23:36:57 <lukegb> am I a terrible person for stealing gnex binaries off build.webos-ports.org instead of building them myself? :P
Dec 19 23:37:07 <ka6sox> no, I do myself...
Dec 19 23:37:27 <ka6sox> only because I know it the latest clean build.
Dec 19 23:37:38 * ShiftyAxel looks pointedly at the channel name
Dec 19 23:37:46 * lukegb looks pointedly at ShiftyAxel
Dec 19 23:38:13 <lukegb> Ubuntu: why do you suck so much :(
Dec 19 23:38:55 <ShiftyAxel> ka6sox, lukegb: just didn't realise that was public knowledge now :)
Dec 19 23:39:05 <lukegb> which what
Dec 19 23:40:43 <ka6sox> whowhat?
Dec 19 23:41:36 <ShiftyAxel> build
Dec 19 23:41:53 <lukegb> oh, I just guessed that it existed
Dec 19 23:42:08 * ShiftyAxel facepalm
Dec 19 23:42:31 <lukegb> well, if you're not going to call it akalenrbaipoehrb0anerb-build then of course someone's gonna at least guess that it exists ;)
Dec 19 23:44:39 <Darakians> there are clean images available....
Dec 19 23:44:44 * Darakians eyetwitch
Dec 19 23:45:02 <lukegb> Darakians: :)
Dec 19 23:45:12 <ka6sox> Darakians, they *built* without failing....doesn't mean they don't have "issues"
Dec 19 23:45:13 <Darakians> >_<
Dec 19 23:45:16 <lukegb> I'm too lazy to set up an Ubuntu build environment
Dec 19 23:45:22 <lukegb> ka6sox: how are you building them, anyway? :P
Dec 19 23:45:30 <ka6sox> jenkins
Dec 19 23:45:44 <lukegb> http://jenkins.webos-ports.org/ with a port? :P
Dec 19 23:45:55 <lukegb> aha http://jenkins.webos-ports.org:8080/
Dec 19 23:45:59 <ka6sox> however its going offline for a serous upgrade
Dec 19 23:46:16 <ka6sox> so you won't find it for a couple of days.
Dec 19 23:47:03 <ka6sox> the controlling server first..then the new slaves being added: http://www.flickr.com/photos/68099814@N00/8216012276/in/photostream
Dec 19 23:47:24 <lukegb> Jenkins is great, but I wish workflows in it were nicer
Dec 19 23:47:33 <lukegb> aww, you suck. you have actual hardware ;)
Dec 19 23:48:17 <lukegb> my pet project http://dl.bukkit.org/ is in a freebsd jail with the buildserver somewhere in the states - woo corporate sponsorship
Dec 19 23:51:20 <lukegb> installing ubuntu, attempt 2
Dec 19 23:52:20 <Darakians> dont do it
Dec 19 23:53:57 <Roy__> ka6sox: I'll check out Lumberjack.
Dec 19 23:56:01 <Darakians> well I feel stupid
Dec 19 23:56:09 <lukegb> Darakians: hrm?
Dec 19 23:56:23 <Darakians> this whole time I've been pushing the wrong file onto my gnex
Dec 19 23:56:37 <Darakians> it never occurred to me to check the size of the image
Dec 19 23:56:39 <Darakians> 46 bytes
Dec 19 23:56:46 <Darakians> >_<
Dec 19 23:56:48 <lukegb> ...
Dec 19 23:56:52 <Darakians> quite you
Dec 19 23:57:12 <Darakians> in other news if you push a blank image to a gnex it doesn't brick it :)
Dec 19 23:57:22 <lukegb> that's because you haven't flashed it :P
Dec 19 23:57:36 <ShiftyAxel> fastboot boot... well, boots it
Dec 19 23:57:38 <lukegb> also because you haven't overwritten fastboot
Dec 19 23:57:40 <ShiftyAxel> the image is stored internally
Dec 19 23:58:14 <Darakians> well I pushed the "image" then ran fastboot
Dec 19 23:58:36 <Darakians> wow everything works now :D
Dec 19 23:59:19 <lukegb> Darakians: if you mean "everything works to a given value of 'working'" then I suppose yes, it is ;)
Dec 19 23:59:29 <Darakians> everything works*
Dec 19 23:59:33 <Darakians> better? :p
Dec 19 23:59:35 <lukegb> ;)
Dec 20 00:00:39 <lukegb> ShiftyAxel: can you add me to the humans mediawiki group? kthx :P
Dec 20 00:00:50 <ShiftyAxel> lukegb: I'll think about it
Dec 20 00:01:07 <lukegb> it's sort of hard to edit the hackathon apps page when you don't have permission to edit it
Dec 20 00:01:34 <ShiftyAxel> ikr?
Dec 20 00:01:45 <ShiftyAxel> volunteering for an app? :)
Dec 20 00:01:54 <lukegb> I was thinking about it ;)
Dec 20 00:05:09 <ShiftyAxel> lukegb: username?
Dec 20 00:05:16 <ShiftyAxel> 'lukegb' isn't showing up in the search
Dec 20 00:05:30 <lukegb> Lukegb
Dec 20 00:05:40 <lukegb> because mediawiki, or me typoing
Dec 20 00:05:42 <lukegb> I think the former.
Dec 20 00:06:26 <ka6sox> it always capitalizes the first letter.
Dec 20 00:07:24 <ka6sox> which app lukegb ?
Dec 20 00:07:50 <lukegb> I was thinking Lumberjack, but I also wanted to add a link to Garfonso's Preware repo
Dec 20 00:08:09 <ka6sox> kk...good!
Dec 20 00:08:12 <Garfonso> was webos 3.x always caching apps? or why don't I see changes I make in the code if I restart the app? :(
Dec 20 00:08:13 <ShiftyAxel> lukegb: consider yourself humanized
Dec 20 00:08:19 * lukegb deletes the frontpage
Dec 20 00:08:24 <ShiftyAxel> Garfonso: sounds like standard behaviour to me
Dec 20 00:08:35 <ka6sox> lukegb, you are human...not superhuman :P
Dec 20 00:08:37 * ShiftyAxel adds lukegb to the 'cylon' group
Dec 20 00:09:10 <ShiftyAxel> Garfonso: you might be able to mitigate that with luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/rescan {}
Dec 20 00:09:32 <ShiftyAxel> I've been considering adding a button for it inside luna, because on-device development
Dec 20 00:09:39 <Garfonso> I'd like to get my wiki account humanized, too. :)
Dec 20 00:09:54 * ShiftyAxel scans garfonso with the toaster-finder
Dec 20 00:09:58 <Garfonso> yeah.. that would be helpful. ;)
Dec 20 00:10:00 <lukegb> BEEP BEEP BEEP
Dec 20 00:10:17 <ShiftyAxel> IT LIIIIIIIIIVES
Dec 20 00:10:57 * Garfonso feels humanized. :)
Dec 20 00:11:18 <JayCanuck> hi everyone
Dec 20 00:11:37 <ka6sox> hiya JayCanuck
Dec 20 00:11:48 <Garfonso> ok.. my IPKGService.js can talk to the ipkg service from old preware on my touchpad..
Dec 20 00:12:02 <Garfonso> but I'll have to look into how to download a feed and stuff.. ;)
Dec 20 00:12:02 <lukegb> do you know what would be good?
Dec 20 00:12:03 <lukegb> unit tests
Dec 20 00:12:07 <lukegb> unit tests would be good :P
Dec 20 00:12:30 <Garfonso> unit tests are great to have. But if you ask me, they are a PITA to write...
Dec 20 00:12:33 <Garfonso> :ü
Dec 20 00:12:34 <lukegb> oh, so much
Dec 20 00:12:34 <lukegb> :P
Dec 20 00:12:36 <Garfonso> :p
Dec 20 00:12:45 <lukegb> ShiftyAxel: don't look at the recent changes :3
Dec 20 00:13:13 <ShiftyAxel>  /kickban lukegb
Dec 20 00:16:02 <Garfonso> oil: how/where do you store the feeds? this is done in ipkgservice somehow, right?
Dec 20 00:16:51 <lukegb> Garfonso: ipkg package source, I think?
Dec 20 00:17:29 <lukegb> hahahaha
Dec 20 00:17:40 <lukegb> https://github.com/webos-internals/preware/blob/master/src/luna_methods.c#L634 just made me die a little inside
Dec 20 00:17:45 <ka6sox> Garfonso, the list of feeds we fetch or the feeds themselves?
Dec 20 00:18:02 <Garfonso> the list of feeds, i.e. the configured feeds
Dec 20 00:18:47 <lukegb> Garfonso: getConfigs -> get_configs_method -> /media/cryptofs/apps/etc/ipkg/*
Dec 20 00:18:58 <Garfonso> ah. k.
Dec 20 00:19:18 <lukegb> does some funky parsing
Dec 20 00:19:55 <ka6sox> it has to fetch and parse out the packages.gz file
Dec 20 00:20:28 <lukegb> oh wait
Dec 20 00:20:31 <ka6sox> (for each feed)
Dec 20 00:20:36 <lukegb> Garfonso: ka6sox's question
Dec 20 00:20:51 <lukegb> the config for the feed, or the actual packages within it?
Dec 20 00:23:03 <Garfonso> where does the list of feeds come from where does it get stored?
Dec 20 00:23:06 <Garfonso> ;)
Dec 20 00:23:22 <lukegb> the LIST of feeds is getConfigs, isn't it, ka6sox?
Dec 20 00:25:14 <Garfonso> ah.. k. makes sense.. that is what the feedsModel is for (on the js side)
Dec 20 00:26:18 <lukegb> on the other hand
Dec 20 00:26:23 <virox> I've created an Preware HD icon some time ago, feel free to use it in the new Preware - http://t.co/QWeEsPDH
Dec 20 00:26:30 <lukegb> I really don't like the way that the ipkg config is just passed up to the JS level
Dec 20 00:26:32 <lukegb> it feels icky
Dec 20 00:28:57 <EricBlade> ShiftyAxel: can i bother you?
Dec 20 00:33:07 <ShiftyAxel> EricBlade: bother away
Dec 20 00:42:32 <ka6sox> virox, can you upload this to our graphics page?
Dec 20 00:42:57 <ShiftyAxel> http://webos-ports.org/wiki/Graphics_Work
Dec 20 00:43:25 <ShiftyAxel> looks like graphics progress has stalled a wee bit
Dec 20 00:43:36 <ka6sox> Finals
Dec 20 00:43:43 <ShiftyAxel> ah YES
Dec 20 00:43:45 <ShiftyAxel> *yes
Dec 20 00:43:48 <ShiftyAxel> silly capslock
Dec 20 00:43:50 <ka6sox> (not the final 4....)
Dec 20 00:45:22 <ka6sox> virox, if you don't have access let me know so I can give it to you.
Dec 20 00:47:07 <Garfonso> does anybody know what the heck "bindAsEventListener" does compared to a simple bind? Is that a mojo method?
Dec 20 00:49:50 <swisstomcat> rehi
Dec 20 00:50:14 <Garfonso> wb
Dec 20 00:50:29 <ka6sox> wb
Dec 20 00:51:04 <lukegb> woo
Dec 20 00:51:08 <lukegb> I broke ubuntu inside virtualbox
Dec 20 00:54:39 <Roy__> lukegb: Anyone can do -that-.
Dec 20 01:07:33 <rwhitby> lukegb: that won't be the ickiest thing you will find in Preware, I can assure you of that.
Dec 20 01:10:42 * Garfonso found just another "model" that he has to convert to get some feeds to load up. ;)
Dec 20 01:10:42 <lukegb> rwhitby: dare I ask why? Just because parsing is easier in JS than in C?
Dec 20 01:11:35 <fxspec06_> bindAsEventListener was required for some cases
Dec 20 01:11:47 <fxspec06_> it's relatively mojo specific
Dec 20 01:11:59 <swisstomcat> enyo has bind
Dec 20 01:12:20 <Garfonso> I always use .bind, tbh.
Dec 20 01:12:37 <Garfonso> what's the difference to enyo.bind?
Dec 20 01:13:06 <fxspec06_> i remember bindAsEventListener was good for connecting references to events. you'd make an event, and bind that to a variable. then you'd bind the variable as an event listener. then you could stop listening on the variable later'
Dec 20 01:13:26 <fxspec06_> i think that's my best explanation
Dec 20 01:16:52 <lukegb> wow: http://mixture.io
Dec 20 01:16:53 <lukegb> :P
Dec 20 01:17:54 <fxspec06_> enyo.bind is good for binding functions too.
Dec 20 01:21:13 <Roy__> Enyo's event system typically doesn't need binding.
Dec 20 01:21:45 <lukegb> so
Dec 20 01:21:50 <lukegb> openwebos and qt5. WHEN :P
Dec 20 01:22:21 <Roy__> lukegb: When it's ready.
Dec 20 01:22:42 <Roy__> Although, maybe we'll release it before it's ready.  ;D
Dec 20 01:22:47 <lukegb> Roy__: I'm joking, really. Doing a Qt5 port would be pretty intense ;)
Dec 20 01:23:24 <Roy__> We already announced Qt5 is coming.
Dec 20 01:23:39 <ShiftyAxel> lukegb: what sort of performance increases do you think qt5 will bring?
Dec 20 01:23:48 <ShiftyAxel> I've seen demos, but the majority are in the context of Qt Quick
Dec 20 01:24:49 <Garfonso> still need a useful way to combine enyo events and enyo singletons... ;)
Dec 20 01:27:55 <lukegb> Garfonso: what exactly are you doing now? :P
Dec 20 01:28:46 <Garfonso> hehe.. that's just me thinking about weired stuff... ;)
Dec 20 01:29:26 <Garfonso> currently I try to follow what the update-assitant does to load the feeds and get that to run in enyo2
Dec 20 01:36:14 <ka6sox> Garfonso, if you have specific questions and need oil just say his nick :D
Dec 20 01:37:02 <ShiftyAxel> and rub the magic desklamp :D
Dec 20 01:43:57 <swisstomcat> garfonso: should i clone your repo and hack on that?
Dec 20 01:44:33 <swisstomcat> blog post how to package enyo2 apps for webos is coming along BTW
Dec 20 01:44:40 <Garfonso> feel free to do that... but it's pretty much in a rough state. ;)
Dec 20 01:45:31 <swisstomcat> i don't know where i should work on ...
Dec 20 01:45:32 <Garfonso> great. :)
Dec 20 01:51:22 * ka6sox pleads the 5th...
Dec 20 01:51:51 <ShiftyAxel> swisstomcat: preware should be our main focus for this hackathon, perhaps work with garfonso?
Dec 20 01:52:56 * ka6sox concurs...
Dec 20 01:53:43 <swisstomcat> yeah
Dec 20 01:53:55 <swisstomcat> which parts need attention?
Dec 20 01:54:00 <swisstomcat> where are open questions?
Dec 20 02:15:58 <Garfonso> updated repository: https://github.com/Garfonso/preware-enyo2
Dec 20 02:16:31 <ka6sox> Garfonso, thanks!
Dec 20 02:16:55 <Garfonso> what I did in the last week was to convert stuff in the model folder.. there is still some stuff missing. especially package.js (which became packageModel.js because of the name clash) is what is needed next to parse the feed information
Dec 20 02:18:59 <Garfonso> hm.. I did break the app loading. :(
Dec 20 02:28:38 <Garfonso> ok.. hm.. not really working yet.
Dec 20 02:29:29 <Garfonso> but I get tired (it's half past 3 am here).
Dec 20 02:29:35 <ka6sox> Garfonso, to make an omelet you need to break a few eggs...
Dec 20 02:29:43 <ka6sox> yes, late!
Dec 20 02:30:06 <ka6sox> push up what you have and sleep..come back another time when you are feeling better :D
Dec 20 02:30:45 <Garfonso> hehe.. yes, pushed my last changes. App loads again and tries to update feeds if you tap "loadFeeds".
Dec 20 02:30:49 <Garfonso> but it fails. ;)
Dec 20 02:31:16 <Garfonso> so. yeah. good night.
Dec 20 02:32:05 <ka6sox> thanks!
Dec 20 02:32:08 <ka6sox> culaters
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Dec 20 02:59:59 2012