**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jan 02 02:59:59 2013 Jan 02 05:51:26 what I want to know is where we pick up our Trophies.... Jan 02 05:51:32 (j/k) Jan 02 05:51:43 lol Jan 02 05:51:48 nice work though guys. very nice work Jan 02 05:51:55 wish i could help out... :/ Jan 02 05:52:03 they look REAL.maybe they are! Jan 02 05:52:04 but it helps to have knowledge to do that :P Jan 02 05:52:29 maybe after i do this kernel work with a friend i'll know more haha Jan 02 05:59:18 I thought the picture looked surprisingly realistic too Jan 02 05:59:30 get derek to mail them :D Jan 02 05:59:37 wait, what picture? :P Jan 02 06:07:06 the one at the top of the WOSN 2012 awards article Jan 02 06:09:02 the DOF is even right Jan 02 06:09:07 ahh.. just saw it. yeah, those do look real.. or someone is really good with PS extended Jan 02 06:09:16 no kidding Jan 02 07:03:07 WE MADE ENDADGET: http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/01/open-webos-ported-to-the-nexus-7/ Jan 02 07:03:30 LIKE SIRS Jan 02 13:10:04 those trophies must be real. Jan 02 15:33:47 why does my app say "unathorized access" when I try to talk to the ikpg service? Jan 02 15:35:19 ok, cause of the name... Jan 02 16:04:26 because of the name XD Jan 02 16:09:09 yeah.. I got something wrong, when I first tried to rename my app to disguise as original preware and was a bit confused, why the renamed original preware was still working, but my "disguised" app was not. Jan 02 16:09:16 but now I got it right. :) Jan 02 16:10:02 morning Jan 02 16:11:55 morphis: morning Jan 02 16:12:30 ok, anybody should now be able to build the grouper (aka N7) image Jan 02 16:14:46 morning morphis Jan 02 16:15:06 morphis: grouper-4.1.2_r1 zip has different checksums than what is in recipe now Jan 02 16:15:20 SRC_URI[binaries.md5sum] = "3c3fe10e7cbf761f173b356a38741473" Jan 02 16:15:21 hm Jan 02 16:15:30 md5sum grouper-4.1.2_r1.zip Jan 02 16:15:31 3ee3743f73ec434481a34ec314ef354d grouper-4.1.2_r1.zip Jan 02 16:16:09 JaMa: which is the one you downloaded from github? Jan 02 16:17:25 3ee3743f73ec434481a34ec314ef354d Jan 02 16:17:30 ok I see Jan 02 16:17:34 will update them Jan 02 16:18:04 are you sure, that github does not regenerate zip/tarballs after a while? Jan 02 16:18:15 regenerate with different checksums.. Jan 02 16:18:19 hm Jan 02 16:18:33 that would be really bad Jan 02 16:18:44 github or gitorious does that Jan 02 16:18:50 iirc Jan 02 16:19:05 then we have to change the recipe to use a git checkout instead Jan 02 16:19:29 how did you get checksums for your zip? Jan 02 16:20:09 maybe it's changed only very rarely (at least for tag archives) Jan 02 16:21:55 downloaded the zips and hashed them Jan 02 16:22:18 but we need something reliable Jan 02 16:22:58 wouldn't it be easier to check the commit id? Jan 02 16:25:46 stbuehler: yes, so using a real git checkout rather than fetching a zip Jan 02 16:26:02 Garfonso: how far are you with the new preware? Jan 02 16:27:53 JaMa: will change this Jan 02 16:28:52 morphis: ok Jan 02 16:30:25 progress is slow. I can now talk to the ipkg service using cordova Jan 02 16:32:04 Garfonso: you switched to cordova instead of webos-ext? Jan 02 16:33:18 yes. I had the feeling this was what we agreed on. not? Jan 02 16:33:33 it doesn't make much of a difference. Jan 02 16:33:40 ok Jan 02 16:33:50 I wasn't part of any discussion related to this Jan 02 16:33:58 but just interested :) Jan 02 16:35:38 Garfonso, yes, that was what was decided...that extensions to Cordova to make it work for devices would be incorporated Jan 02 16:43:03 does open webos have the bits for gps/location stuff to work? Jan 02 16:43:40 RagingMind: no Jan 02 16:43:48 at least not yet Jan 02 16:44:02 RagingMind: but you're welcome to help us with this Jan 02 16:46:33 JaMa: I will not bump PR for the change Jan 02 16:47:57 morphis: fine with me Jan 02 16:48:10 ok Jan 02 16:48:18 morphis: sstate will probably change checksum so it will be build tested anyway Jan 02 16:48:28 it does Jan 02 16:48:32 I am already rebuilding here Jan 02 16:52:31 JaMa: will push both changes (tuna/grouper) before I completely tested them here locally as it's faster to test them on the builders and to fix them than to wait for my macbook to finish the build Jan 02 16:56:46 JaMa: ok, bits are pushed and builds are queued Jan 02 16:58:41 thanks Jan 02 17:15:41 ka6sox: I have some first changes related to the certificate management Jan 02 17:29:14 morphis, did you see the email related to that on the ML? Jan 02 17:30:44 morphis, I think we might be missing a connector for PmCertificateMgr to be activated at the right time. Jan 02 17:43:44 ka6sox: no, give me some minutes and I can tell you more about this Jan 02 18:26:45 http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/2/3827922/ubuntu-phone-os-announcement Jan 02 18:27:29 whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat Jan 02 18:27:39 plot twist! Jan 02 18:29:48 and it can only mean good things :) Jan 02 18:30:59 competition is AWESOME. :D Jan 02 18:31:16 :) Jan 02 19:11:39 ShiftyAxel: the UI on the gnexus looks a little bit overscaled with the latest changes Jan 02 19:12:00 morphis: the DPI scaling bits? Jan 02 19:12:06 yes Jan 02 19:12:10 it's to big Jan 02 19:12:24 setting the DPI to 216 get its back to what is was before Jan 02 19:12:33 but in the config we have 316 DPI set Jan 02 19:12:36 which is corret Jan 02 19:12:47 yeah, I was using the display's actual DPI Jan 02 19:12:51 N7 has 216 and GNexus has 316 Jan 02 19:12:52 i kinda thought that to myself, from just looking at the pics at first glance. but it's hard to tell w/o a device. for 2nd opinion Jan 02 19:13:03 though it's 'artificially high' because of the PenTile Jan 02 19:13:25 ka6sox: ok, I looked into the certificate handling and I read what Jason said Jan 02 19:13:33 I found apps a bit too small and hard to tap at 216 though Jan 02 19:14:15 <_minego> Hi all Jan 02 19:14:46 ShiftyAxel: hm Jan 02 19:14:53 _minego: hey Jan 02 19:14:56 <_minego> I built and booted the open webOS image for my N7 following the instructions on http://testing-n7.webos-ports.org, but when I attempt to ssh to it I'm prompted for a password Jan 02 19:15:08 <_minego> The instructions don't mention a password, and I have no idea what password it expects Jan 02 19:15:23 <_minego> morphis: Howdy Jan 02 19:15:25 you need to use webos-dev-image if you want to SSH in Jan 02 19:15:31 not webos-image Jan 02 19:15:33 <_minego> OH! Jan 02 19:15:46 I thought rwhitby updated that the other day... Jan 02 19:15:57 <_minego> Well, since I can't get past first use it would appear that webos-image is not an option Jan 02 19:16:21 <_minego> Okay, I guess I will go build again then :) Jan 02 19:16:53 <_minego> The instructions mention that you can build webos-dev-image, but don't mention that ssh requires it Jan 02 19:17:40 <_minego> Thanks Jan 02 19:18:16 <_minego> Oh, also the instructions say to run ". setup-env" but on many machines that won't work. It should be ". ./setup-env" Jan 02 19:19:04 _minego: yes, please feel free to update this Jan 02 19:19:05 <_minego> I suspect that anyone trying this should realize that though Jan 02 19:19:15 <_minego> Okay Jan 02 19:20:23 <_minego> Oh, regular users don't have rights to edit that wiki page Jan 02 19:20:55 _minego, what is your username? ill make you a human Jan 02 19:21:13 <_minego> scoutcamper: minego Jan 02 19:21:24 ka6sox: still here? Jan 02 19:21:28 <_minego> I've always wanted to be a human! :) Jan 02 19:21:30 wait, can't get past first use? Jan 02 19:21:34 what's the issue? Jan 02 19:21:53 _minego, you are human now :P Jan 02 19:22:07 ShiftyAxel: he's using the webos-image which does not have our first use app Jan 02 19:22:10 <_minego> ShiftyAxel: On the N7 I can't ssh in since I didn't do a dev build, so all I see is a black screen. Jan 02 19:22:13 ah Jan 02 19:22:16 scoutcamper, can do that too Jan 02 19:22:37 _minego: the webos-image is really not supported atm Jan 02 19:22:46 ka6sox: ok, lets come to certificate management Jan 02 19:22:52 <_minego> morphis: No problem. I didn't realize that. It makes sense though. Jan 02 19:23:14 _minego: yes for now but we have to align the webos-image for a real release as it should not includes things like gdb Jan 02 19:23:56 <_minego> morphis: I suppose. I personally like having gdb around :) Jan 02 19:23:58 * scoutcamper will note that webos-image is not currently supported on our N7 and gnex wiki pages Jan 02 19:24:04 ka6sox: I prepare the ca-certificates from Debian/Ubuntu for inclusion in our image so we have at least the images installed Jan 02 19:24:13 scoutcamper: thanks a lot Jan 02 19:24:23 <_minego> morphis: Should I add a note to the build instructions saying that webos-dev-image should be built for now? Jan 02 19:24:24 JaMa: ^^ we have to fix the images soon Jan 02 19:24:29 _minego: yes, please Jan 02 19:25:44 ka6sox: so we have everything ready in /etc/ssl/certs Jan 02 19:26:02 ka6sox: what we need now is populating the bits to /var/ssl so they can be used by pmcertificatemgr Jan 02 19:26:13 pmcertificatemgr is a shared lib Jan 02 19:26:30 it manages a second stack of certificates on top of the already installed ones Jan 02 19:26:41 the ones you can add through the UI Jan 02 19:27:12 <_minego> morphis: Done Jan 02 19:27:18 okay...what bits are we missing then? Jan 02 19:27:18 _minego: thanks Jan 02 19:27:21 just he added ones? Jan 02 19:27:23 <_minego> morphis: np Jan 02 19:27:34 ka6sox: we need the bits in /var/ssl Jan 02 19:27:43 means: Jan 02 19:27:57 * /var/ssl/trustedcerts contains symlinks to the installed certs Jan 02 19:28:06 * /var/ssl/index.txt the cert database Jan 02 19:28:17 * /var/ssl/serial Jan 02 19:28:54 but having the /etc/ssl bits should already enough to have mail working Jan 02 19:29:13 ShiftyAxel: you had issues with your mail provider and ssl right? Jan 02 19:29:23 yeah Jan 02 19:29:31 can't login to icloud, gmail or hotmail Jan 02 19:30:14 ShiftyAxel, ka6sox: I pushed the bits for installing ca-certificates in our images Jan 02 19:30:14 * scoutcamper can confirm that gmail and exchange do not work. Jan 02 19:30:19 ShiftyAxel: you can retry with this Jan 02 19:31:09 pushed Jan 02 19:31:17 ka6sox: I will add the missing /var/ssl bits too Jan 02 19:32:15 morphis, okay...lets see if that makes it play Jan 02 19:32:18 lol Jan 02 19:32:25 are we using the new threaded email client? Jan 02 19:32:28 no Jan 02 19:32:29 my local build dir filled my 500gb hdd Jan 02 19:32:57 scoutcamper, pfff...I've filled up entire 4TB partitions with dead builds... Jan 02 19:34:23 * scoutcamper just freed up about 200gb in old builds Jan 02 19:34:57 morphis, which mail app are we using for Ow currently? Jan 02 19:36:20 * ShiftyAxel likes rm_work Jan 02 19:36:39 ka6sox: the default app Open webOS delivers Jan 02 19:36:43 but it needs some love Jan 02 19:36:51 it needs a freakin' rewrite :P Jan 02 19:37:03 a rewrite or a polishing Jan 02 19:37:08 so it scales correctly Jan 02 19:37:29 why don't we start with the Enyo1 Threaded Email client? Jan 02 19:37:37 that would be nicer right? Jan 02 19:37:53 yes Jan 02 19:38:03 thats definitely the way to go Jan 02 19:38:16 but for example on the GNexus it's unusable Jan 02 19:38:24 as it's made for higher resolutions Jan 02 19:39:16 so it needs scaling? Jan 02 19:39:41 yeah Jan 02 20:01:07 ShiftyAxel: how far are you with the scaling working? Jan 02 20:01:22 morphis: everything works, tablet keyboard included Jan 02 20:01:37 the phone keyboard is having some graphical problems though Jan 02 20:03:33 ok Jan 02 20:03:39 but solvable? Jan 02 20:05:59 yeah, anything's fixable Jan 02 20:06:12 I just need to figure out how to make it work right Jan 02 20:06:24 ok Jan 02 20:06:42 morphis: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9yo55cqj5lzyq0t/IMG_20130102_200519.jpg Jan 02 20:07:06 ShiftyAxel: ah so very small graphical problems :) Jan 02 20:07:18 yeah, doesn't kill usability Jan 02 20:07:23 but it bugs the hell out of me :D Jan 02 20:07:32 ShiftyAxel: you saw http://issues.webos-ports.org/issues/339 ? Jan 02 20:08:13 yeah, the QML ui stuff should be fairly trivial Jan 02 20:16:08 do we know if hp/gram has any plans of bringing the app store to owo? Jan 02 20:19:09 HaDAk: no Jan 02 20:19:20 HaDAk: if not we will build our own Jan 02 20:19:23 no, we don't know, or no, they're not? Jan 02 20:19:25 ah Jan 02 20:19:33 no : we don't know Jan 02 20:19:53 as it stands, i really want owo on my n7, but i'm wary of doing so as i'm stuck with core apps. Jan 02 20:20:09 while they're useful, they severely limit the functionality of the device without an app store Jan 02 20:20:11 HaDAk: yeah thats what we have at the moment Jan 02 20:20:25 HaDAk: yes, but we will build some foundation for this Jan 02 20:20:30 of course. Jan 02 20:20:34 and at the moment we need everybody to get the core working Jan 02 20:20:49 i haven't looked into the wiki yet…does installing owo maintain android as a dualboot, or does it require you to flash? Jan 02 20:20:50 HaDAk: so if you have time and fun to test owo on the N7 and report any bugs that would be nice Jan 02 20:21:13 or is it like the gnex, where you can boot on the fly Jan 02 20:21:24 HaDAk: at the moment you're just placing an ext2 image on the internal flash (within the user area) and reflash the recovery partition Jan 02 20:21:30 HaDAk: it's the same Jan 02 20:21:36 ok. piece of cake. Jan 02 20:21:39 exactly the same Jan 02 20:21:53 i should be able to test that, provided i have space on my internal storage. Jan 02 20:21:56 how big is the image? Jan 02 20:22:36 about 500M Jan 02 20:22:46 i should be able to come up with that. Jan 02 20:22:57 thanks morphis. i'll look into loading it up and testing it out. Jan 02 20:23:18 great Jan 02 20:23:39 HaDAk: bug tracker is here: http://issues.webos-ports.org/projects/ports Jan 02 20:23:45 yep Jan 02 20:23:49 hasn't moved :D Jan 02 20:23:52 ok :) Jan 02 20:34:00 ShiftyAxel: but after those tiny fixes for scaling you're mostly finished? Jan 02 20:34:17 morphis: with the keyboard, yeah Jan 02 20:34:30 though there are also some glyph rendering issues in places Jan 02 20:34:30 webappmgr/luna-sysmgr too? Jan 02 20:34:47 WAM is ready for primetime right now, luna needs the app title and QL layout fixed Jan 02 20:35:14 what do you think how much time would the rest bits need? Jan 02 20:41:21 luna shouldn't be too hard now I have two devices to test against Jan 02 20:41:36 ok Jan 02 20:42:03 ShiftyAxel: are you hard coding things per pixel density? Jan 02 20:42:11 HaDAk: what do you take me for? :P Jan 02 20:42:18 * HaDAk shrugs Jan 02 20:42:25 HaDAk: we're not doing any hard-coding :) Jan 02 20:42:27 i'd *assume* you're creating a lookup chart or something Jan 02 20:42:29 luna.conf takes a DPI variable, everything is calculated on load from there Jan 02 20:42:50 i mean to say…hard coding into luna.conf? Jan 02 20:43:07 ...yes, that much is pretty much unavoidable Jan 02 20:43:22 couldn't you, instead, have a lookup table with each device it's been ported to. have it do a check on startup of what device it is, and populate luna.conf based on the variable in the lookup table? Jan 02 20:43:52 that way, you could add to the chart as you develop, and have it to math-y stuff based off of that variable Jan 02 20:43:56 * HaDAk shrugs Jan 02 20:43:58 just a suggestion Jan 02 20:44:31 luna.conf is a constant per-device thing, it contains all the device info Jan 02 20:44:58 so we just make one per device and our build environment automatically picks the right one and puts it in the right place Jan 02 20:46:02 oh, i see. Jan 02 20:46:19 i figured it would make for easier deployment on a wider range of devices Jan 02 20:46:34 but if there are other device specific things in luna.conf, that may not help much Jan 02 20:47:02 yeah Jan 02 20:47:37 where were you thinking said lookup table should be? if it's inside luna, then that's effectively hard-coding loads of data into it Jan 02 20:47:55 which i'm thinking is the opposite of the intention Jan 02 20:48:23 hard coded data, sure…. figured there was a lot of generic stuff in luna.conf Jan 02 20:48:35 * HaDAk hasn't poked at luna.conf in a while Jan 02 20:51:02 i dunno. just throwing shit to the wind. Jan 02 20:51:09 maybe some day i'll have a good idea. Jan 02 20:51:13 luna.conf is generated by oe at build time. It is device specific. Jan 02 20:51:24 actually, there are two files Jan 02 20:51:39 luna.conf, which is more generic, and luna-platform.conf, which overrides luna.conf Jan 02 20:51:59 i'm sure there's a very good explanation for THAT. Jan 02 20:52:12 "hardcoded" values go there, so that you can override them at run time. Jan 02 20:52:26 isn't luna.conf hard coded? Jan 02 20:52:50 luna.conf contains generic keys, luna-platform,conf defines platform (aka device) specific values. Jan 02 20:52:55 gotcha. Jan 02 20:52:58 it depends on your definition of hard-coded Jan 02 20:53:08 hardcoded in what sense? hardcoded is something you do *inside* of Luna Jan 02 20:53:12 it's a text file, so technically yes, the data is stored in it as literal text Jan 02 20:53:18 the location of luna.conf is hard coded Jan 02 20:53:22 luna.conf's values are not Jan 02 20:53:45 what they are is generated at build time, and not run time Jan 02 20:54:15 Luna does read prefs from luna.conf and dynamically generate asset sizes at runtime Jan 02 20:54:17 take a look at https://github.com/webOS-ports/luna-sysmgr/tree/master/conf Jan 02 20:54:33 each time you port to a new device, you add a new luna-.conf Jan 02 20:55:35 a lookup table in Luna would be a bad idea. Especially when it comes to porting. :) Jan 02 20:56:09 * HaDAk tried Jan 02 20:56:17 hehe Jan 02 20:56:19 it is ok :) Jan 02 20:56:33 basically, a lookup table exists, but not on the device. Jan 02 20:56:45 Instead it is in the OE build system. Jan 02 20:57:07 i just thought that, maybe, more than one device uses the same dpi…so we could just plug that variable in somehow with a lookup table Jan 02 20:57:09 eh. Jan 02 20:57:38 Now, where a lookup table is going to be needed, is the Phx Device Luna Android app. Jan 02 20:58:07 That is going to have to dynamically populate those values. Well... if they ever do something like release into the Google Play Store. Jan 02 20:58:13 heh. i haven't seen an email from those guys in weeks. Jan 02 20:58:30 Since they'll probably want just 1 binary, for many devices. Jan 02 20:58:50 good lord, do you think google would allow that? Jan 02 20:59:16 ShiftyAxel: who knows? It is pretty much just a launcher and webapp environment. I see why not. Jan 02 20:59:21 I guess they already allow running whatever, but something that goes so far as to circumvent surfaceflinger etc... seems like a bit of a stretch Jan 02 20:59:34 hell... malware makes it into the Play Store now and then... Jan 02 20:59:37 :P Jan 02 21:06:49 are there any rules about what can't be in the play store other than things that impersonate google apps, and things that are definitely malware? Jan 02 21:07:25 and having absolutely zero review procedure, anything can be in there until they ban the dev account Jan 02 21:08:00 morning EricBlade Jan 02 21:09:02 good morning Jan 02 21:09:15 i'm back up to at least "able to work" capacity now Jan 02 21:09:39 congrats :) Jan 02 21:10:02 not quite 100%, but way better than the last couple days where just tweaking meta-webos was a chore that took all my brainpower Jan 02 21:10:20 and i had absolutely nothing to drink since Thursday, so I know it wasn't that! hah Jan 02 21:14:21 Sunday night/Monday were hell, I think my longest waking stretch was 40 minutes with 4-5 hours of sleep between Jan 02 21:15:08 i'm so glad i quit smoking 2 years ago Jan 02 21:16:53 yeah, smoking and being ill -really- don't mix Jan 02 21:17:01 * ShiftyAxel has been there Jan 02 21:49:38 <_minego> Is it possible to use the phone style keyboard on the nexus 7? Jan 02 21:54:35 _minego: yeah, edit /etc/palm/luna-platform.conf and change DPI to 316 Jan 02 21:54:43 I can't remember what the exact threshhold is Jan 02 21:55:06 also it'll look nicer if you set tabletUi to false Jan 02 21:56:12 <_minego> ShiftyAxel: Awesome, thanks Jan 02 21:56:18 np :) Jan 02 21:56:44 though be warned, the phone keyboard doesn't scale especially well in the current build Jan 02 21:56:56 i'm working on it now, rasslin' with 9-tile corner scaling... Jan 02 21:57:51 <_minego> nice Jan 02 22:00:28 <_minego> hmmm, now I get no keyboard hehe Jan 02 22:03:17 hmm, it might not scale at all in that case :P Jan 02 22:03:30 <_minego> Oh well :( I just wanted to see it Jan 02 22:03:35 how does the spacebar look on tablet keyboard? Jan 02 22:03:53 <_minego> one sec, I'll look Jan 02 22:03:58 is it kinda warped around the edges? if so my scaling fixes aren't in there Jan 02 22:04:37 <_minego> hmmm, now I'm not getting any keyboard even after putting the original luna-platform.conf back... Jan 02 22:05:51 hmm Jan 02 22:06:11 that's a little atrange Jan 02 22:06:13 *strange Jan 02 22:06:33 <_minego> I agree... I'm restarting Jan 02 22:07:48 <_minego> Okay normal keyboard is back Jan 02 22:08:01 <_minego> The spacebar looks correct to me Jan 02 22:08:09 <_minego> I don't see anything warped Jan 02 22:12:05 in that case you have the latest from github, phone keyboard should function... Jan 02 22:12:21 try again w/reboot? Jan 02 22:13:14 it's odd, I can usually run 'stop LunaSysMgr && stop WebAppMgr', edit luna-platform, then 'start LunaSysMgr && start WebAppMgr' Jan 02 22:24:02 <_minego> I'll try again Jan 02 22:24:06 <_minego> I just got one of my apps running :) Jan 02 22:24:14 <_minego> https://github.com/minego/PwdHash-HD2 <-- Worked without any changes :) Jan 02 22:25:53 <_minego> It worked this time Jan 02 22:25:58 <_minego> I have phone keyboard :) Jan 02 22:26:09 <_minego> It actually looks pretty good Jan 02 22:26:42 <_minego> Haha, the tablet keyboard popups when you type are kinda funny Jan 02 22:31:25 _minego: if you want to tweet out a photo of your N7 running the app, I'll be happy to RT :) Jan 02 22:31:33 as would @webosports, I'm sure Jan 02 22:31:53 <_minego> ShiftyAxel: Sweet, I will in just a minute Jan 02 22:31:57 and funny you say? do they need more fixery? Jan 02 22:32:25 <_minego> When using the phone keyboard the popups where the tablet style Jan 02 22:33:10 oh yeah, those Jan 02 22:35:41 <_minego> tweet complete! Jan 02 22:37:37 ka6sox: ping? there's publicity RTing to be done! :D https://twitter.com/_minego/status/286601647101186048 Jan 02 22:37:43 RT'd :) Jan 02 22:37:57 <_minego> Thanks :) Jan 02 22:46:15 <_minego> I wonder if my wife would get mad at me if I stole her galaxy nexus for a while Jan 02 22:48:14 _minego, mine would...(get mad) Jan 02 22:48:58 <_minego> ka6sox: I think mine would too Jan 02 22:50:06 yay, phone keyboard scaling is fixed to a workable level :) Jan 02 22:51:05 it's not ideal as it still clips the corners a little, but the clipping is center-aligned so doesn't look bad Jan 02 22:51:11 _minego, just make sure she knows it won't be permanent Jan 02 22:51:57 <_minego> ka6sox: She gets kinda sick of me messing with her phone though Jan 02 23:02:40 _minego, I used to mess with my Wife's Pre3...the last time I did that I almost got a fork in the back of the hand. Jan 02 23:03:09 <_minego> ka6sox: Haha! Jan 02 23:03:33 <_minego> ka6sox: My wife dropped her pre3 and shattered the screen... :( Jan 02 23:04:06 _minego, mine too...luckily I had one with a bad radio that I swapped the screen with. Jan 02 23:04:21 <_minego> Lucky Jan 02 23:05:02 <_minego> hmm, paste doesn't appear to work :( Jan 02 23:09:22 _minego: yeah, not sure what the issue is with that Jan 02 23:09:57 i think it maaaay be part of the sysui webapp layer... but i'm not sure Jan 02 23:11:57 _minego: RT'd Jan 02 23:14:36 wow the N7 AR looks really wide in that pic Jan 02 23:17:33 <_minego> rwhitby: Thank you Jan 02 23:18:09 <_minego> ShiftyAxel: Well the app thinks that it copied the text to the clip board, but I'm not sure if it looks right hehe Jan 02 23:18:34 <_minego> linuxjacques: I'm kinda holding it at a bit of an odd angle in that picture Jan 02 23:18:46 that and it is pretty wide :p Jan 02 23:19:05 <_minego> Haha, that too Jan 02 23:19:43 I think the clipboard itself is functional... there's just no way to get the data out Jan 02 23:19:47 but I have no way to confirm that Jan 02 23:24:22 yeah it's already the widest AR tablet I know of Jan 02 23:24:38 <_minego> I like a wide tablet Jan 02 23:24:51 the big top and bottom bezels make it seem wider than it is Jan 02 23:25:06 (top and bottom when in portrait orientation) Jan 02 23:25:09 I quite like what they did with the bezel Jan 02 23:25:27 yeah don't get me wrong; I really like the N7 Jan 02 23:25:44 I'm considering getting a HSPA model Jan 02 23:25:46 I've played with a KFHD7, which has a more TP-esque bezel, and it seems like it'd be a little more difficult to hold in one hand Jan 02 23:26:01 ShiftyAxel, indeed Jan 02 23:26:06 note that we won't be supporting the modem part of N7 for Ow, to my knownledge Jan 02 23:26:22 yeah, even AOSP doesn't :-( :-( Jan 02 23:26:23 <_minego> The modem? Jan 02 23:26:28 unless someone's willing to send us all 3G versions/write it themselves :) Jan 02 23:26:41 <_minego> Oh, I don't have a 3G version anyway Jan 02 23:26:56 well, any kind of 'cell' model Jan 02 23:27:30 <_minego> I'd be surprised if there was support for any 'cell' model Jan 02 23:28:20 not sure what's going on at google, but neither the N4 nor the N73G have AOSP support Jan 02 23:28:26 (for the modems) Jan 02 23:28:48 <_minego> That's annoying Jan 02 23:29:08 last I heard they had even removed the binaries for the N4 from their site - no explanation Jan 02 23:29:08 it's kind of odd for devices that are meant to be a paragon of openness... Jan 02 23:29:21 "I'm sorry but I can't comment on that" Jan 02 23:29:49 not how nexus devices are supposed to be Jan 02 23:30:48 http://www.androidcentral.com/nexus-4-factory-images-disappear-google-site Jan 02 23:32:12 hm, interesting Jan 02 23:32:30 the theories proposed there seem sensible Jan 02 23:34:20 though I wouldn't be -entirely- surprised if google suddenly did a mass turnaround and locked everything down super-tight Jan 02 23:34:42 :-( Jan 02 23:35:24 yeah factory images and binaries for N4 are still not on https://developers.google.com/android/nexus/drivers nor https://developers.google.com/android/nexus/images Jan 02 23:36:33 <_minego> I suppose there are a lot of regulations and what not that they have to deal with when it comes to things like LTE. Jan 02 23:36:50 <_minego> Still, if that is the cause then I don't understand why they are being so hush hush about it. Jan 02 23:37:03 my thoughts exactly Jan 02 23:37:29 and the N7G3 has no LTE (that I am aware of) so why are the binaries gone for it? Jan 02 23:37:40 (though the factory image at least is still there) Jan 02 23:38:11 <_minego> Well it is just the 3G version of the N7 that they are missing for right? Jan 02 23:38:33 <_minego> That would support those theories Jan 02 23:38:56 _minego, yeah, just the 3G-specific binaries for N7 are gone Jan 02 23:39:25 I gotta say, I'm kinda annoyed at the N4 thing because I just got an N4 Jan 02 23:39:38 (right before they did it) Jan 02 23:41:22 <_minego> That sucks Jan 02 23:41:32 yeah, tough break Jan 02 23:42:01 N4 binaries removal is most likely an FCC thing. And they can't talk about it cause that would be admitting it publicly which would increase their legal liability for the stuff-up. Jan 02 23:42:14 <_minego> I almost nabbed an N4 but opted for the N7 and I'm back on webOS for my phone. I don't miss using android on a phone at all. Jan 02 23:42:28 <_minego> rwhitby: Oh, that's a good point Jan 02 23:42:33 I kind of like where they're taking android, but I'd chooise webOS over it in a shot Jan 02 23:42:52 (smoother, nicer UX, less reason to use ROMs = less frag, etc) Jan 02 23:43:08 <_minego> ShiftyAxel: Yeah, I agree. Android is moving in the right direction, but it has a long way to go, at least for me. Jan 02 23:43:11 as for the N73G binaries removal, there is no explanation for that other than maybe they didn't get all the agreements in place with the silicon vendor Jan 02 23:43:42 _minego: indeed, and there were a few... 'interesting' regressions in 4.2 that I've noticed Jan 02 23:43:52 (which is very poor form for a nexus device, cause that's the first thing that should be signed and sealed for a nexus device) Jan 02 23:46:30 * rwhitby doesn't consider the N4 to be a Nexus device until the binaries and images are released. Jan 02 23:47:16 rwhitby, sadly, I must agree Jan 02 23:47:18 * ShiftyAxel has one word: qualcomm... Jan 02 23:47:23 <_minego> Google's definition of what a nexus device is does seem to be rather loose... Jan 02 23:47:38 definitely as of late :-\ Jan 02 23:50:17 (this is me personally...not he project) I don't think the N4 is a Candidate because of the Silicon Vendor they chose for that product. Jan 02 23:51:35 yeah :-( Jan 02 23:51:59 * ShiftyAxel notices that the binaries section for N10 looks rather anemic Jan 02 23:52:00 <_minego> Well as frustrating as it is at least there is the galaxy nexus and the nexus 7. Other vendors don't seem eager to release open-ish devices. Jan 02 23:52:27 (this is also me, not the project) when the N4 ones arrive... are there going to be more than say one? Jan 03 00:01:06 ShiftyAxel, I don't understand your question Jan 03 00:05:05 the N7 and GNex have quite an extensive range of binaries on the dev site, whereas the N10 has 3 Jan 03 00:05:14 wondering if the modern Nexus devices are going to have less and less Jan 03 00:06:33 if even google can't do it, that's a very sad commentary Jan 03 00:06:54 s/google/google with all their influence/ Jan 03 00:09:45 yeah... Jan 03 00:10:04 the closest thing we have to an open-source-friendly apple Jan 03 00:10:30 <_minego> I'm really tempted to start playing with an enyo 2 version of PM... I doubt I'll find time to finish it though :/ Jan 03 00:11:16 is it particularly complex? Jan 03 00:11:18 <_minego> At least google is trying. Jan 03 00:12:52 _minego, yeah I give them credit for that Jan 03 00:30:23 yes, they are trying Jan 03 02:12:18 Hey guys. I just finished building for the nexus 7 for the first time. I've ssh'd into the device and it wants the root password. Jan 03 02:12:22 I don't know it. Jan 03 02:12:40 just hit enter Jan 03 02:12:55 Permission denied, please try again. Jan 03 02:12:59 =\ Jan 03 02:13:25 Hit enter with a sledgehammer? Jan 03 02:13:34 haha Jan 03 02:13:44 cameron_, did you build webos-image or webos-dev-image? Jan 03 02:14:37 well crap Jan 03 02:14:40 I thought I did dev Jan 03 02:14:46 I guess I did webos-image Jan 03 02:14:56 webos-image does not have working ssh Jan 03 02:15:04 .... golly Jan 03 02:15:19 * halfhalo blames the hippies Jan 03 02:15:24 webos-dev-image is under active developement Jan 03 02:15:37 I knew that and yet I somehow typed the wrong thing Jan 03 02:15:41 * cameron_ is the fool Jan 03 02:15:48 * scoutcamper blames halfhalo Jan 03 02:16:28 okay welp. Do I need to clean my build environment somehow? I know enough about linux, but I know shit about building for devices Jan 03 02:16:46 I am referring as to how to start over Jan 03 02:17:57 Sorry I'm probably asking too much for someone who followed the guide wrong Jan 03 02:18:01 nope Jan 03 02:18:14 * halfhalo doesn't follow guides Jan 03 02:18:15 it will actually re-use much of what you allready buillt Jan 03 02:18:21 that's a relief Jan 03 02:18:22 * scoutcamper what guides? Jan 03 02:18:39 guides are for wimps :P Jan 03 02:19:10 so can I just go back to ./setup-env and then straight to MACHINE-grouper bb webos-dev-image? Jan 03 02:19:42 yes Jan 03 02:19:53 well Jan 03 02:19:56 MACHINE=grouper Jan 03 02:20:00 awesome that's what I like to hear. Thank you so much for your help Jan 03 02:20:00 lol Jan 03 02:20:02 yeah Jan 03 02:20:03 yeah Jan 03 02:20:06 = not - Jan 03 02:20:10 right Jan 03 02:21:20 cool, I got the image building now Jan 03 02:21:26 hopefully not as long this time. Jan 03 02:21:38 I really appreciate your fast reponse. I look forward to bug testing. Jan 03 02:22:05 fast response is one of the things i loved about webOS :) Jan 03 02:22:17 well, the webOS family Jan 03 02:22:19 usability through the roof Jan 03 02:22:32 * ShiftyAxel dibs on being the mad uncle Jan 03 02:22:33 nobody really quite multitasks like webos Jan 03 02:22:43 truth Jan 03 02:22:48 cameron_: many have tried. and failed Jan 03 02:22:56 * halfhalo calls being the snarky-psyco Jan 03 02:23:03 WP seems to have come the closest.. IMO Jan 03 02:23:10 halfhalo is always the psyco Jan 03 02:23:33 * scoutcamper calls being the crazy uncle Jan 03 02:23:34 I've had android phones and an iphone since my pre2. I've grown irritable with both of them Jan 03 02:23:53 sadly i'll probably be getting an iPhone 5 soon Jan 03 02:24:20 * scoutcamper admits to having a galaxy s3 as his daily driver. but webos is still my item of choice Jan 03 02:24:21 I like iPhone's simplicity, except when you have to multitask, and lack of a central "chat" hub that webos had Jan 03 02:24:29 * halfhalo is currently rocking a GN and iPhone5 as his phones Jan 03 02:24:37 multitasking on iphone is painful Jan 03 02:24:37 i daily try to gesture on my s3 and facepalm Jan 03 02:24:47 haha Jan 03 02:24:58 I have a google nexus, but it's verizon, so no webos for me Jan 03 02:25:00 :9 Jan 03 02:25:02 :( Jan 03 02:25:26 cameron_, it works on verizon gnex fine, it simply will never support 3g/lte Jan 03 02:25:27 scoutcamper: i have the Note 2.. massive S3 dude. i REALLY want webOS on it Jan 03 02:25:37 lol what about 2g/voice? Jan 03 02:25:50 none of that either Jan 03 02:25:59 webos on the note 2 would be the sexiest thing Jan 03 02:26:06 yeah it would Jan 03 02:26:40 is the "isis" browser part of the open webos build? Jan 03 02:26:47 yes Jan 03 02:27:00 cool Jan 03 02:27:08 i'm thinking about loading the new threaded email app onto my touchpad Jan 03 02:27:09 everything that ShiftyAxel demo'd in his video is in that build Jan 03 02:27:36 scoutcamper: I already called the crazy uncle :p Jan 03 02:28:01 ShiftyAxel, there can be more than one uncle Jan 03 02:29:02 true, I guess we must have a family history of eccentricity then :D Jan 03 02:29:13 indeed :P Jan 03 02:29:23 cameron_: that build will probably have a bit more than the video also, depending on when you started it Jan 03 02:29:32 halfhalo, is the resident psyco who plays with knives Jan 03 02:29:42 define started it Jan 03 02:29:49 and fire! Jan 03 02:29:59 I started the attempt this morning, and am trying again now Jan 03 02:30:13 TZ? Jan 03 02:30:23 part of me wants to ask for tutorials and such but I know I'd just drag people down Jan 03 02:30:40 cameron_, i recomend that you ctrl+c that build and do a make update Jan 03 02:30:42 eh, the channel's here for a reason ;) Jan 03 02:31:11 +1 scoutcamper, it shouldn't need to rebuild anything huge, and you'll get a nicer first use app and complete keyboard scaling Jan 03 02:31:12 okay Jan 03 02:31:12 the channel is here so I can make snarky comments. Jan 03 02:31:21 cameron_, http://www.webos-ports.org/wiki/Nexus_7_Build_Setup#Building the "To update metadata" line Jan 03 02:31:45 i really want a Nexus 7 now that this is here... -__- lol Jan 03 02:31:50 and that will update it to the latest server build? Jan 03 02:31:57 yeah Jan 03 02:32:00 the nexus 7 is a great piece of kit Jan 03 02:32:08 +1 cameron_ Jan 03 02:32:12 lovely little tablet Jan 03 02:32:16 portable too Jan 03 02:32:18 better then the TP go? Jan 03 02:32:20 I thought the size would be a real negative but I use it more than the ipad, which I then sold Jan 03 02:32:27 never had a TP go so I couldn't compare Jan 03 02:32:38 me either Jan 03 02:32:45 but I'd say yes Jan 03 02:32:47 i held one once. so... beautiful Jan 03 02:32:50 because A. you can buy one Jan 03 02:32:55 lol Jan 03 02:32:57 and B. it doesn't have TP specs Jan 03 02:33:09 which these days are a little lacking Jan 03 02:33:16 yeah. Jan 03 02:33:25 but for the size, you can't beat the price/specs Jan 03 02:33:28 that and the Go never ran Ow :) Jan 03 02:33:32 rwhitby, can compare :) Jan 03 02:33:38 will the OG TouchPad run Ow? :) Jan 03 02:33:39 now if only we could *ahem* borrow a couple of proprietary bits to hold over for a while, like some synergy connectors Jan 03 02:33:50 PatrickC|Spanish: no Jan 03 02:33:59 dang. Jan 03 02:34:01 worth a shot :P Jan 03 02:34:23 man even control+c is taking for ages Jan 03 02:34:32 my parents are probably getting S3's soon. so hopefully, eventually, it'll happen to that device Jan 03 02:34:41 cameron_: try pressing it again Jan 03 02:34:41 cameron_, what spec does your machine have? Jan 03 02:34:53 amd tricore 3.2 ghz Jan 03 02:34:56 4 gigs ram Jan 03 02:34:56 bitbake takes about 2-3 ctrl+cs before it really dies Jan 03 02:35:10 not fast but not slow Jan 03 02:35:33 runs skyrim just fine lol Jan 03 02:35:37 I build Open webOS on a 2.4Ghz macbook pro, you've got it easy :P Jan 03 02:36:01 ShiftyAxel: what year? Jan 03 02:36:08 early 2011 Jan 03 02:36:11 nice. Jan 03 02:36:19 i bought a mid 2012 last year. love it Jan 03 02:36:26 * scoutcamper builds owo on a monster. i7 2600k+24gb ram+gtx 680 Jan 03 02:36:29 I've lost the love of mine Jan 03 02:36:38 Theoretically my air can build. But hey, I have a desktop Jan 03 02:36:48 oh yeah, 13in if that makes any difference Jan 03 02:36:56 scoutcamper: i have a build box that i can use. 24GB RAM 24 core (i think older intels) Jan 03 02:37:01 ShiftyAxel: same. 13" 17 Jan 03 02:37:03 my lappytop can build as well, but i have ssh to my desktop Jan 03 02:37:06 i7* Jan 03 02:37:14 mine's an i5 iirc Jan 03 02:37:28 i'm about to drop 16GB RAM into it, then video rendering will be super fast :) Jan 03 02:37:28 * scoutcamper bbiab Jan 03 02:37:31 I read all this and kick myself for not getting into programming culture Jan 03 02:37:42 3770K@4.5 via Turboboost, 32GB Ram, and a monkey. Jan 03 02:37:47 cameron_: i'm only a very newb in the programming culture Jan 03 02:37:47 cameron_: welcome to fun :D Jan 03 02:37:49 I took programming in college and dropped out after an associates degree because the money ran out Jan 03 02:37:51 halfhalo: i hate you Jan 03 02:38:09 haha Jan 03 02:38:14 honestly, without the #webOS channel, i would have NEVER started programming Jan 03 02:38:15 everyone needs a monkey Jan 03 02:38:24 and then #webos-internals got me more into patches and stuff Jan 03 02:38:37 I don't program… I mash keys Jan 03 02:38:39 * ShiftyAxel is hopefully getting a beastie i7-3770k system soon Jan 03 02:38:45 i used to only be in webOS channels. now it's sad to see most of my channels are android :/ Jan 03 02:38:46 nice ShiftyAxel Jan 03 02:38:53 sounds shmexy Jan 03 02:38:56 halfhalo: so you must be great at regex, right? :D Jan 03 02:39:36 * ShiftyAxel can't wait to break into the PC gaming market Jan 03 02:39:39 uhhhhh Jan 03 02:39:42 also Ow builds in ~1hr Jan 03 02:39:44 <3 Jan 03 02:39:51 nice :) Jan 03 02:40:01 (from what scoutcamper tells me at least) Jan 03 02:40:03 as soon as i get a device that runs Ow, i'll be building and running Jan 03 02:40:04 ShiftyAxel: 2hr if you don't use state, at least for me Jan 03 02:40:19 I can run owos on pretty much any computer Jan 03 02:40:26 except ati right now Jan 03 02:40:26 take it from me, if you want to get into gaming pc's be sure to get an ssd in the near future Jan 03 02:40:28 you'll thank me Jan 03 02:40:37 way ahead of you ;) Jan 03 02:40:38 _only_ one ssd? PSH Jan 03 02:40:54 you know you have something special when your ssd computer boots and launches a game faster than your console does Jan 03 02:40:59 I've had 128Gb SSD + 320Gb data in my macbook for a while now Jan 03 02:41:04 pfft, consoles Jan 03 02:41:26 * PatrickC|Spanish still has a 750 7200RPM HDD :/ Jan 03 02:41:34 if I don't have my caching card in, I have sub 10 second boot to desktop times Jan 03 02:41:43 halfhalo: windows? Jan 03 02:41:45 with the card in, its about a minute. Because it crashes a few times Jan 03 02:41:48 or linux? Jan 03 02:41:48 yes. Jan 03 02:41:51 wow Jan 03 02:41:56 I refuse to use linux as my main os Jan 03 02:42:00 for why? Jan 03 02:42:24 i refused to use linux as my main os, then I did.. then i got OS X and found a happy medium Jan 03 02:42:37 linux is a pretty big umbrella. I use it just fine but I am obsessed with trying new desktop environments Jan 03 02:42:42 that carries over to phones too Jan 03 02:42:45 Because I prefer my things to work without me spending days fiddling with low level stuff Jan 03 02:42:47 which much be why I like webos so much Jan 03 02:43:07 I have my air and mac mini for osx stuff, and windows on my desktop, other laptop, and other other laptop. Jan 03 02:43:47 I have an old 2.4 ghz single core machine in my basement that does nothing but run my minecraft server on a tiny linux distro Jan 03 02:43:51 if I need linux, I will use a vm Jan 03 02:44:39 Wait… I think I have a laptop with linux on it, purely because I don't have a HD for it Jan 03 02:44:44 I haven't booted OSX on this thing for evah Jan 03 02:44:53 Oh, and a webos x86 tablet Jan 03 02:44:55 linux for programming, windows for 'gaming' Jan 03 02:45:11 I'm seriously questioning if I want to put linux on my old hp touchpad and use that as a minecraft server as java for arm is out, and minecraft server is multithreaded Jan 03 02:45:36 does minecraft server still eat a shitload of resources? Jan 03 02:45:46 it _is_ java.... Jan 03 02:46:10 back in the alpha/beta days it used to murder my laptop Jan 03 02:46:12 yeah, but the server doesn't - if you're only using up to a max of 4 people Jan 03 02:46:19 eheh Jan 03 02:46:44 it runs pretty good but there's mods that make huge chunk loading performance gains Jan 03 02:46:45 i never could get into Minecraft Jan 03 02:46:49 one of the reasons I have a blade server in my garage is because I couldn't run minecraft + server on my laptop simultaneously Jan 03 02:47:36 * ShiftyAxel does not believe in overkill Jan 03 02:47:39 * ShiftyAxel much Jan 03 02:47:41 optifine mod lets you offload chunk loading to an entirely seperate core so you keep your framerate and load everything as fast as your pc can Jan 03 02:48:02 but what if I only have one core?!?!?! Jan 03 02:48:20 then you need to cash your piggy bank for a new computer lol Jan 03 02:48:34 eh, it makes a great coaster Jan 03 02:48:44 that's what the cd rom is for Jan 03 02:48:50 hold my drinks Jan 03 02:49:01 what's a cd-rom? you mean cupholder? Jan 03 02:49:15 I have a deadish drive specifically for that in my pc Jan 03 02:49:21 no data cable for it, just power Jan 03 02:49:42 the cupholder on my macbook doesn't seem to work right... it looks like you have to actually stuff the cup into a small slot in the side Jan 03 02:49:51 which is quite messy Jan 03 02:49:55 my air has no cupholder Jan 03 02:49:56 just built the new email app.. time to play :) Jan 03 02:50:10 'built'? Jan 03 02:50:19 palm-package.. Jan 03 02:50:22 600 tasks to go for cedartrail... Jan 03 02:50:22 lol Jan 03 02:50:31 psh palm-package Jan 03 02:50:33 meh, haven't touched webOS code in forever.. :P Jan 03 02:50:34 I do that by hand Jan 03 02:50:38 *sean bean face* one does not simply compile an interpreted language Jan 03 02:50:41 I'm going to hit the sack. I have to have a job to support my habit Jan 03 02:50:49 thank you folks so much for your help. It's been a true pleasure Jan 03 02:51:27 cameron_: you're welcome, it's good to see new people around these parts :) Jan 03 02:51:38 with the N7 I'll be around more often Jan 03 02:51:42 cheers Jan 03 02:52:09 is LunaCE 4.9.10 the newest? Jan 03 02:52:30 there's a 5.0.0 in the alpha branch iirc Jan 03 02:52:45 but the only difference is the disablement of the 'LunaCE x.x.x by webOS Ports' text Jan 03 02:52:51 iirc Jan 03 02:52:54 lol Jan 03 02:53:14 i love how the Internalz install still requires a Java restart :) Jan 03 02:54:48 pfft Jan 03 02:55:02 hey is the isis browser available for the hp touchpad? Jan 03 02:56:28 threaded email app is awesome! **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jan 03 02:59:59 2013