**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Mar 02 02:59:59 2013 Mar 02 03:02:18 have one, it sucks :( Mar 02 03:03:36 use LunaCE on it? Mar 02 03:06:14 no not yet Mar 02 03:06:24 is it that much better? Mar 02 03:08:10 yes indeed Mar 02 03:09:22 yeah, i got pre3, pre2, pre2, pre+, touchpad, etc....\] Mar 02 03:09:41 hopefully not in that order Mar 02 03:09:49 which, all in their current states have far more to offer than owos r.n Mar 02 03:09:58 true Mar 02 03:10:15 (the lil ones are tucked away in boxes) Mar 02 03:10:28 TP is the 'leading edge' of webOS hardware atm Mar 02 03:10:36 I just hate the design of the touchpad Mar 02 03:10:46 unless you have a go, but those are rare... Mar 02 03:10:53 a go? Mar 02 03:11:24 Darakians, ShiftyAxel and EricBlade and others put a TON of work into LunaCE to make it awesome :D Mar 02 03:11:40 Darakians: 7in TP Mar 02 03:12:08 soft touch back, speaker casings that are entirely less likely to crack, etc Mar 02 03:12:27 you mean someone put effort into the design!? Mar 02 03:12:45 i know, crazy right? Mar 02 03:12:48 it is Mar 02 03:13:02 scoutcamper, I'll give it a go then Mar 02 03:13:10 LunaCE is totally worth it Mar 02 03:13:21 my touchpad is mostly used as a digital picture frame at the moment Mar 02 03:13:25 bit more responsive than standard luna, and a lot of improvements, minor and major Mar 02 03:14:41 what sort of improvements? Mar 02 03:14:57 multiple gesture recognition methods, so you can customize that Mar 02 03:15:04 there's no new functionality is there? Mar 02 03:15:06 elimination of drag snapping when moving in card view Mar 02 03:15:12 spreadable stacks Mar 02 03:15:13 mini cards Mar 02 03:15:19 mini cards? Mar 02 03:15:22 just type access from the status bar Mar 02 03:15:32 think 1.4.5, when you tapped under cards they would shrink Mar 02 03:15:48 dynamically-sized dashboard notifications that can be used as widgets Mar 02 03:15:51 uhh Mar 02 03:15:56 wow Mar 02 03:16:04 wave launcher, but i don't like the way i did it so ymmv Mar 02 03:16:08 ok that's more than I was imagining Mar 02 03:16:30 the ability to switch between cards in fullscreen via side swipes Mar 02 03:16:34 finger-tracking gestures Mar 02 03:16:43 infinite card cycling so you can loop round Mar 02 03:16:50 tab view for stacks in fullscreen Mar 02 03:16:50 is this all planned for open webos? Mar 02 03:16:52 tabbed cards Mar 02 03:16:55 o_O Mar 02 03:17:01 customizable carrier string Mar 02 03:17:08 it has a -lot- of new stuff :) Mar 02 03:17:12 and some of it is, yeah Mar 02 03:17:12 ok, I'm sold already Mar 02 03:17:28 very cool Mar 02 03:17:34 wave launcher is a no-go due to copyrights and the fact that it's a cheap hack that could be done better Mar 02 03:17:52 what is a wave launcher anyway? Mar 02 03:18:22 swipe up and hold on webOS phones Mar 02 03:18:29 the wavey thing with your quick launch apps Mar 02 03:18:34 ahhh Mar 02 03:18:35 ok Mar 02 03:18:48 i reimplemented it to appear when sliding up either side of the screen with a finger Mar 02 03:19:04 moving lunace mods to owo takes some more time because we need to investigate copyright infingement reprocustions Mar 02 03:19:14 for what it's worth, I have never used that on my phone Mar 02 03:19:16 the added functionality is that WE can now write code for it. basically. Mar 02 03:19:31 pretty much Mar 02 03:19:31 I see Mar 02 03:19:34 the negatives, however, are that synergy is GONE. which breaks my heart Mar 02 03:19:45 it coincided with a large chunk of free time for me, so i kind of went to town on it Mar 02 03:19:49 and, not everything is there Mar 02 03:19:53 synergy's broken? Mar 02 03:19:54 any replacement? Mar 02 03:20:02 fxspec06, synergy is gone *for now* Mar 02 03:20:07 not forever Mar 02 03:20:07 synergy is kind of important Mar 02 03:20:08 ah, Ow Mar 02 03:20:12 yes, for now.. Mar 02 03:20:25 not LunaCE then, had me confused Mar 02 03:21:11 random question Mar 02 03:21:51 what's preventing webos ce from being the base moving forward? why reinvent the wheel with open webos? Mar 02 03:21:58 legalitys? Mar 02 03:22:37 luna is going through a lot of changes as part of Ow Mar 02 03:22:45 webos ce is lynasysmgr, which IS open sourced (this is what they could do in fastest time period.) they made for the community because they felt bad. Mar 02 03:23:04 and it had forked some time before we made significant changes to it, so said changes will have to be ported forward Mar 02 03:23:26 it'll never be OS'd because it's specifically for the touchpad in current state, which contains code that is licenced Mar 02 03:23:45 and hence a new code base was needed? Mar 02 03:24:00 it's still 3.x luna, or rather based on it Mar 02 03:24:19 pretty much. the linux drivers required for the touchpad are not available, and the guys who own the code ___ (are being code hogs) Mar 02 03:24:32 fwiu Mar 02 03:24:41 but the first public version of open webOS luna was different in a fair few ways under the hood Mar 02 03:24:47 and continues to become moreso Mar 02 03:25:05 for instance splitting webappmanager out of it into it's own component Mar 02 03:25:22 whereas CE is just the 3.x luna, opensourced Mar 02 03:25:34 they aren't intercompatible, so to speak Mar 02 03:25:44 huh, ok. I always thought there were hardware incompatibilities between the palm/hp devices and those in the android world Mar 02 03:26:21 that's where nyx comes in Mar 02 03:26:29 nyx? Mar 02 03:26:32 the successor to HAL, the hardware abstraction layer Mar 02 03:26:34 yeah, they're not compatible..... much in the way that guys who work on cyanogenmod don't affect what HTC does w/ their phones.. Mar 02 03:26:55 basically it's a layer between the webOS stuff that we know, aka LunaSysMgr, WebAppManager and friends, and the device drivers Mar 02 03:27:19 and we have also introduced libhybris Mar 02 03:27:23 it provides a standard interface that you plug things into, like device sensors and LED control Mar 02 03:27:41 ah yes, hybris Mar 02 03:27:54 basically we can use android binary drivers in a non-android linux Mar 02 03:28:14 that's pretty damn cool Mar 02 03:28:18 which is what happens on the GNex and N7, courtesy of morphis Mar 02 03:28:36 morphis and Stskeeps Mar 02 03:28:44 and the n4 now thanks to google? Mar 02 03:28:47 Stskeeps is the creator of libhybris, and a lot of improvements have been made by our project and pushed up Mar 02 03:29:00 N4 binaries aren't available Mar 02 03:29:07 thought they became so today Mar 02 03:29:08 we arent looking at the N4 as of yet. Mar 02 03:29:12 ya ya Mar 02 03:29:17 ShiftyAxel, the binaries are out now Mar 02 03:29:24 interesting Mar 02 03:29:32 but indeed, we have two ports to finish yet Mar 02 03:30:00 yes and they should be finished before more targets are made Mar 02 03:31:05 anyway, it's beer'oclock here and I'm gonna get going Mar 02 03:31:19 thanks for the detailed explanations :p Mar 02 03:31:29 welcome :) Mar 02 03:31:31 i tried! Mar 02 03:31:54 so, I fixed the battery level reporting on the x86 devices Mar 02 03:32:01 gj halfhalo Mar 02 03:32:15 flipped two things to longs from ints Mar 02 03:32:26 i had that issue in qt earlier Mar 02 03:32:35 bloody variable size Mar 02 03:35:08 did you see the link that EricBlade tweeted earlier? Mar 02 03:35:10 http://martinvalasek.com/blog/pictures-from-a-developers-life Mar 02 03:35:17 genuinely hilarious from a programmer's perspective Mar 02 03:36:35 oh my god i'm dying.. Mar 02 03:36:50 breathe, fxspec06 Mar 02 03:37:01 then click on the 'part 2' linnk Mar 02 03:37:06 ShiftyAxel, :D Mar 02 03:38:41 regex/newbie colleague/leaving for the weekend ones are by far my favourites Mar 02 03:43:11 i'll read in a bit, bio w/ lab partner rn.. designing an experiment. i am "hypothesizing" alka-seltzer will cause acids to become basic. total guess Mar 02 03:43:30 i suppose that could go under "trying to fix a bug at 3 in the morning" ... Mar 02 05:29:59 folks Mar 02 05:30:29 bhuey Mar 02 06:12:29 gm peeps Mar 02 06:14:04 EricBlade1: WHAAAZAAAAAAA!?! Mar 02 06:14:14 namuch Mar 02 06:15:49 just had an interesting cab ride. i pointed out that we were about to drive right past the target exit, so he nearly drove off the highway looking for an illegal turnaround .. gave up on that, i tried to direct him back around, he went the wrong direction every single time, and finally i told him to let me out of the car.. but he insisted on not letting me out until i saw an open diner to stop at Mar 02 06:16:11 so.. yeah. wtf? Mar 02 06:19:23 "I'm not paying you to be a f'ing moron. Let me out of the cab, or I'm gone." Mar 02 06:19:25 :) Mar 02 06:20:13 some people can't slow things down. they want to think too fast Mar 02 06:20:55 perfect example of cutting corners.... except only on a highway, the corner is a tree Mar 02 08:37:37 morning Mar 02 08:38:07 morn Mar 02 13:25:08 Morning ! Mar 02 19:20:22 so, does webos-ports have a PDF app yet? Mar 02 19:20:31 we do not Mar 02 19:21:16 and i'm not sure if isis will load PDFs or just try to download them like 3.x Mar 02 19:21:24 well, if you are interested, you could now. updated the mojo PDF for free rotate Mar 02 19:21:42 dunno how the pre3 version i got relates to the versions on the TP or pre2/1+- Mar 02 19:21:45 webOS Ports does not support mojo on Ow Mar 02 19:21:54 ic, then, nvm =) Mar 02 19:22:13 the spec for our core apps is to be enyo2 Mar 02 19:22:38 thouhgh i'm sure an enterprising individual could write a meta-mojo script to grab it from a doctor and install it Mar 02 19:23:01 makes sense. this is, though, pretty much an object in a frame.. minus the mounds of mojo logic for the UI.. Mar 02 19:23:56 see what happens when i get distracted? i was supposed to be sleeping, or doing homework this morning. =( Mar 02 19:25:49 but yeah, the pdf has JS for the UI, and a external dependency object for the PDF reading. in case anyone didn't know ;) Mar 02 19:38:33 sounds like a pretty standard webOS app :P Mar 02 19:39:30 hopefully there should be a way to leverage the webkit engine to do the PDF stuff for us Mar 02 19:40:19 that way it'll just be enyo.kind({name: "PDFApp", classes: "enyo-fill", components:[{kind:"WebView", src: "somepdf"}]}); Mar 02 19:40:40 also, you know you've gone off the deep wnd when you start trying to navigate your IRC client's text input with hjkl and vim commands... Mar 02 19:40:46 :wq Mar 02 19:41:40 so easy. run a touchpad emulator on a server and run the PDF in the mojo emulator from there! it's "the webos way" Mar 02 19:54:23 sounds like you've gotten your hands on derek kessler's Really Big Hammer (tm) Mar 02 19:55:02 LOL Mar 02 19:56:01 oh crap, to patch i need a original file. >.< Mar 02 20:00:09 hm? Mar 02 20:00:53 i've been doing the mods on the device. if i want to share w/ webos peeps before i leave in ~hr i need a unmodified file to make the patch correctly Mar 02 20:01:15 i suppose, i could overwrite the appinfo.json version # and run update.. maybe? Mar 02 20:01:31 doctor. nvm Mar 02 20:01:43 gj :P Mar 02 20:01:59 though good work also :) Mar 02 20:02:01 ty, ty. concessions at the exit =) Mar 02 20:02:27 yeah, i honestly didn't even want to do it. i don't even know why i did. it just happened Mar 02 20:02:37 i think i didn't want to do homework lol Mar 02 20:03:06 i know the feeling Mar 02 20:03:33 my mojo patches were written out of 'razza frazzza it's not nice enough to use' Mar 02 20:04:47 i think it's because i was bored, and internalz is not THAT bad at on device coding. just wish i didn't have to squint so much to see >.< Mar 02 20:06:07 I'd use TIDE for on-device development Mar 02 20:06:48 the one that looks like laundry detergent? Mar 02 20:16:39 yeah Mar 02 20:16:49 it's more editing-friendly than internalz Mar 02 20:29:29 ShiftyAxel: what was the name of that ipc that i had sent you earlier in the week? Mar 02 20:29:50 ugh, this diff is modifying too many lines. should i care? Mar 02 20:34:55 EricBlade: I'm not sure, I think the logs may be in my windows install Mar 02 20:35:05 fxspec06: depends on how many is too many Mar 02 20:35:17 if it's added spaces instead of tabs or some mad shit like that, yes you should Mar 02 20:35:26 because it'll break the hell out of any other patches Mar 02 20:35:28 i got it, it was just one section. it looked like a few were irrelevant, but just one Mar 02 20:35:44 yeah, i got rid of the oddities Mar 02 20:38:53 good stuff Mar 02 20:47:45 http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-patches/323126-pdf-viewer-free-rotate-v0-0-1-patch.html#post3381316 outta here Mar 02 20:49:31 lol, that post reads like an action hero Mar 02 20:49:57 GOT PLACES TO BE AND WORLDS TO SAVE, TEST THIS *dive out of plate glass window* Mar 02 20:51:59 pretty much. lol Mar 02 21:16:46 Mozilla's PDF.JS is quite cool too, didn't try it on OWO yet though, might be a good start? Looks screwed up on Touchpad but could be due to old webkit on it? Mar 02 21:16:47 http://mozilla.github.com/pdf.js/web/viewer.html Mar 02 21:17:11 morning Herrie Mar 02 21:17:28 hmm Mar 02 21:17:33 that does look nice Mar 02 21:18:13 Looks OK on OWO emu :D Mar 02 21:18:39 On my TP it was screwed up, just tried it in Penk's liveCD for OWO and seems to be OK there :) Mar 02 21:22:07 Herrie: if you can provide a simple app we can put it in to show pdf.js working Mar 02 21:25:32 Need to have a look and see if I can get that done, never made a proper app yet for webOS, but learning ;) Mar 02 21:28:16 ShiftyAxel: viewhost_updatewindowregion Mar 02 21:30:46 aha, good stuff EricBlade Mar 02 21:38:21 Herrie: it's really easy if you use the enyo bootplate one Mar 02 21:39:19 good lord X11 via internet is slow Mar 02 21:40:52 Herrie: morphis +1 Mar 02 21:42:53 Herrie: you can take one of the already existing enyo2 apps as example Mar 02 21:45:57 Ok will give it a go in the next couple of days Mar 02 21:53:11 i guess they changed pdf.js so that it no longer requires mozilla specific things? Mar 02 21:53:42 Herrie: yeah! Mar 02 21:53:44 EricBlade: I hope so Mar 02 21:54:50 is there an index page on webos-ports.org wiki? Mar 02 21:54:54 i can never find what i'm looking for Mar 02 21:55:19 EricBlade, http://www.webos-ports.org/wiki/Special:AllPages Mar 02 21:58:38 ty. that should be in the sidebar :) Mar 02 22:03:49 attempting to build a custom lsm doesn't seem to work in the ports environment .. can't find lsm-common Mar 02 22:05:44 IIRC the ports stuff doesn't have the lam-common stuff, its still all in one. Mar 02 22:06:03 it does, we've just got something really weird going on in the pri/pro files in lsm Mar 02 22:06:17 shows how much I know! Mar 02 22:06:20 in some situations, apparently STAGING_INC = /usr and sometimes it's /usr/include Mar 02 22:06:28 OH Mar 02 22:06:31 THAT Mar 02 22:06:33 so sometimes we end up -I/usr/include/include/luna-sysmgr-common Mar 02 22:06:38 Yeah, ran into that Mar 02 22:06:54 i'm not sure wth is going on with that, or which environment it was that had the wrong value Mar 02 22:07:27 drop the include, that fixed if for me methinks Mar 02 22:07:30 i recall adjusting it for a broken environment, and then it seems broken here. and now i'm totally confused Mar 02 22:24:44 grrr. of course my nexus is in need of charging Mar 02 22:37:47 and my custom lsm crashes with a floating point exception.. but all i did was add some qDebug calls. wth Mar 02 22:46:35 i noticed something weird about our clock app the other day, and i don't know how it is that i've been using webos for this long, and never noticed this -- our clock app has two hash marks per second/minute Mar 02 23:06:09 EricBlade: hash mark? Mar 02 23:06:11 also, https://twitter.com/shiftyaxel/status/307989070452244480 Mar 02 23:06:16 Preware 2.0 is coming along nice Mar 02 23:07:17 ShiftyAxel: analog clocks normally have 4 spots between each digit .. ours has 8 Mar 02 23:07:33 ShiftyAxel: really nice Mar 02 23:10:14 nice on preware Mar 02 23:10:20 ty, ty :) Mar 02 23:10:26 i think i'm about to give up on this. my images are building without keyfigs Mar 02 23:10:41 or keyfigs isn't loading Mar 02 23:10:42 or something Mar 02 23:10:53 hmm, that doesn't sound so promising Mar 02 23:13:56 this is just really difficult to work with, because sending things to the gnex is incredibly slow, and just touching the gnex causes the usb to disconnect, add to that that every time it reconnects, i have to reconfigure the network interfaces in ubuntu, and it becomes infuriating Mar 02 23:14:47 Sounds like a bad usb cord Mar 02 23:15:12 it does, but it only does it when the gnex is in webos Mar 02 23:21:51 hmm Mar 02 23:22:03 or it happens in both, and android happens to be good at graceful recovery? Mar 02 23:22:07 /speculation Mar 02 23:28:43 it doesn't happen with any other devices either Mar 02 23:29:05 could be the vm being crappy at handling it Mar 02 23:29:18 since i only use the gnex on the vm Mar 02 23:34:45 oh well. i'm going to go get a new computer case and a large collection of microusb cables tomorrow i think Mar 02 23:43:04 oh shit. there are people talking here. Mar 02 23:43:09 hello people. Mar 02 23:43:39 ShiftyAxel|Away: glad to see some of my design paradigms made it this far along in preware2 Mar 02 23:44:05 EricBlade: how long are you in CA? Mar 02 23:44:13 i'm not Mar 02 23:44:50 oh. Mar 02 23:45:04 Are you in A2 tonight? Mar 02 23:45:20 nope, i'm in canton Mar 02 23:45:37 i'm trying to find something to do. been working the past 7 days straight. i'm off in 15 min. Mar 02 23:45:43 and i'm ready to gtfo the house. Mar 02 23:47:42 i think angel and i are hitting some place for karaoke tonight Mar 02 23:48:14 karaoke >.> Mar 02 23:48:45 i managed to brick my fking odroid-x2. need to figure out how to reinstall it…but that sounds an awful lot like being inside, at home, on a computer to me Mar 02 23:48:51 so, maybe not what i should do tonight. Mar 02 23:50:46 embedded systems make me frustrated. i just don't understand the fucking boot process of these things. Mar 02 23:53:10 maybe i'll read this later. http://www.edn.com/design/systems-design/4363984/Understanding-embedded-system-boot-techniques-4363984 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Mar 03 00:04:28 2013 Mar 03 01:58:48 HaDAk|: design paradigms? what now? Mar 03 01:58:58 s/|// **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Mar 03 02:59:58 2013