**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 23 02:59:59 2013 Jul 23 08:12:33 JaMa: only thing is now that qtwayland pulls in xkbcommon again :) Jul 23 08:14:03 ok, but only because it was installed in my sysroot through some experiements with other components which depend on it Jul 23 09:08:18 morphis: sdl needs xkbcommon too Jul 23 10:15:11 JaMa: I started a rebuild with rebased morphis/work on top of your latest rebase on upstream Jul 23 10:15:18 I have a lot recipe now failing in do_patch Jul 23 10:16:55 morphis: you should have removed tmp-eglibc if you've also updated that rm_work_old.bbclass in your env Jul 23 10:17:20 different WORKDIR layout will cause that Jul 23 10:18:19 Indeed, it also happened to me when enabling rm_old_work yesterday Jul 23 10:18:27 had to remove tmp-eglibc :) Jul 23 10:19:46 hm Jul 23 10:19:54 stefan_schmidt_w: btw. I updated rm_old_work Jul 23 10:20:46 morphis: updated what exactly? Jul 23 10:21:25 stefan_schmidt_w: it not in dylan branch yet Jul 23 10:21:34 but will be soon Jul 23 10:21:47 https://github.com/webOS-ports/meta-webos-ports/commit/f5a36d2d6846273261fb9420b2a83cdf58d90912 Jul 23 10:23:33 ok Jul 23 10:23:52 but will cause a rebuild Jul 23 10:24:07 I started a fresh build yesterday night after verified that the normal setup with sstate works fine after the meta-qt5 bump Jul 23 10:24:25 fresh build was without sstate and with rm_old_work Jul 23 10:24:40 This morning it showed my beloved ca-certificates problem Jul 23 10:24:49 need to investigate on this a bit more Jul 23 10:30:01 ok Jul 23 10:32:54 stefan_schmidt_w: there will be some more changes soon to pull in luna-next and qt 5.1.0 and newer libhybris Jul 23 10:33:16 morphis: cool Jul 23 10:33:45 yes and it will make luna-next the default Jul 23 10:34:15 oh, isn't that a bit pre-mature? Jul 23 10:34:27 it is Jul 23 10:34:36 Or this the normal luna not working any better? Jul 23 10:34:42 but alpha2 is tagged and everyone who wans it can build it Jul 23 10:34:44 I never used an image as you know :) Jul 23 10:34:53 yes Jul 23 10:35:16 hmm, its to hard to have both available in the same image and easily switchable? Jul 23 10:35:24 Just checking how much work this is Jul 23 10:37:16 Maybe its really not worth it. Don't know. :) Jul 23 10:39:17 stefan_schmidt_w: in short words: the old stack is quite bloated, has a somehow unsuited rendering architecture for our purposes and is causing a lot for to get it working as it should Jul 23 10:40:17 stefan_schmidt_w: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WABbklGmcD8 that is LSM/WAM at Alpha 2 state Jul 23 10:40:21 morphis: But ripping it out completely means no transition and maybe a long time until you can use it again Jul 23 10:40:33 During this time nothing new shows up in the old tagged version Jul 23 10:40:41 * stefan_schmidt_w is not a fan of flag days Jul 23 10:40:43 yes, but having both insite the same image isn't possible easily Jul 23 10:40:47 as the old stack is qt4 only Jul 23 10:41:00 hmm, ok, that is a real problem Jul 23 10:41:04 yes Jul 23 10:41:13 we need the clean break Jul 23 10:41:23 And who am I anyway in this project to question the way ahead :) Jul 23 10:41:33 ok Jul 23 10:41:37 thats absolutely fine Jul 23 10:42:08 As long as you don't have a user base that will be pissed of thats fine Jul 23 10:42:18 Don't think thats the case here. (Sadly) :) Jul 23 10:43:35 yes, we don't have any users, just fans and developers :) Jul 23 10:43:44 :) Jul 23 10:43:58 Makes sense to keep on moving fast without much legacy then Jul 23 10:44:08 This just always triggers my alarm bell Jul 23 10:44:16 Flag days that is Jul 23 10:45:19 yes Jul 23 10:45:26 it's a hard cut but what should we do? Jul 23 10:45:36 yeah Jul 23 10:45:39 got it Jul 23 10:46:50 it's sad I would like to keep with a modified old stack but ... :) Jul 23 10:47:08 and I thinks it's very nice that all the UI development is now done for the system UI in QML Jul 23 10:47:16 makes it easily changable Jul 23 10:47:35 What worries me a bit is if you diverge to much from the openwebos development Jul 23 10:47:58 But I need to learn my ropes in here first. Jul 23 12:54:20 good morning Jul 23 12:58:17 hi Jul 23 13:09:43 HaDAk, Amish: morning Jul 23 13:09:56 hey morphis Jul 23 13:09:57 hey Amish Jul 23 13:12:39 hi morphis Jul 23 14:44:19 JaMa: ping Jul 23 19:30:53 hmm, when is rm_old_work kicking in? Jul 23 19:31:10 seems I'm going to run out of disk space soon. Jul 23 19:31:19 Seem to kick in way later then rm_work Jul 23 19:32:35 and here we are Jul 23 19:33:06 Looks like I will try the good old plain rm_work again :) Jul 23 19:36:42 btw, what du you folks know about the account manager/service that is used for all kind of online accounts in webos? Jul 23 19:36:52 What kind of properties does it store? Jul 23 19:37:32 I ask because I started to use owncloud 1 or 2 years ago and by now rely heavily on it Jul 23 19:38:06 I guess for carddav and caldav we would need a synergy connector Jul 23 19:38:25 But I also would be interested in fily sync and bookmarks for example Jul 23 19:39:33 And obviously some share functionality Jul 23 19:39:36 i tried to get palm to implement caldav support. Jul 23 19:39:50 they told me that it was apple proprietary stuff Jul 23 19:39:54 But I guess that is all mid to long term I would think? Jul 23 19:39:57 i showed them the RFC, and they scoffed Jul 23 19:40:02 HaDAk: huh? Jul 23 19:40:12 i dunno. i'm rambling. Jul 23 19:40:14 ignore me Jul 23 19:40:49 HaDAk: I meant the proprietary stuff :) Jul 23 19:40:54 Keep rambling :) Jul 23 19:41:11 oh Jul 23 19:41:21 they told me that apple came up with it, and it wasn't a standard. Jul 23 19:41:33 i showed them the rfc, and they told me that it didn't matter and they weren't going to implement it Jul 23 19:41:36 lol and i said, yet they implemented the itunes syncing Jul 23 19:41:36 its actuall the most open pim stuff we have. Jul 23 19:41:41 i just wanted to be able to open .ics files and add them to my calendar Jul 23 19:41:51 all this activesync is really not a better option Jul 23 19:42:08 yeah. carddav and caldav are good. Jul 23 19:42:17 i'm REALLY pissed that google is dropping support for them Jul 23 19:42:23 how are you guys going to handle that? i use google exclusively. Jul 23 19:42:35 but they did put activesync in it and paid MS some money for it :) Jul 23 19:42:45 anyway, we are free to do what we want :) Jul 23 19:42:46 all my contacts are inadvertently synced with google contacts, because of webos + synergy Jul 23 19:42:56 Might just never happen but we are free to do it :) Jul 23 19:43:08 i have backups in MS Outlook thanks to export to CSV Jul 23 19:43:14 well, anyone who knows how to code their way out of a paper bag is free to do it Jul 23 19:43:19 I don't use google at all :) Besides search Jul 23 19:43:20 fx1 can attest that my code isn't fantastic Jul 23 19:43:22 also gcontacts has export on the website toto Jul 23 19:44:05 are there any docs about synergy plugins? And is that still the same in OpenWebOS? Jul 23 19:44:18 * HaDAk shrugs Jul 23 19:44:18 So many questions :) Jul 23 19:44:41 synergy is still proprietary, idk where there are docs but i know eblade built a IRC and a GVoice connector Jul 23 19:44:47 * stefan_schmidt puts that onto the mid term research list Jul 23 19:45:04 fx1: oh, they did not open source it with the rest? pity Jul 23 19:45:38 i don't think they own the licence Jul 23 19:45:57 hmm, they bought the synergy tech? Jul 23 19:46:01 i thought they ripped out the synergy stuff Jul 23 19:46:07 * fx1 doesn't know Jul 23 19:46:28 ok Jul 23 19:46:39 seems there is some extensive research needed Jul 23 19:46:47 indeed Jul 23 19:46:51 or, ask eric. Jul 23 19:46:53 eric knows all Jul 23 19:47:07 heh Jul 23 19:47:13 That is Eric Blade? Jul 23 19:47:30 yes Jul 23 19:47:40 * stefan_schmidt tries to scratch together old memories from the beginning times of webos-internals Jul 23 19:48:01 hai guyz Jul 23 19:48:31 look who walks in Jul 23 19:48:48 fx1: syngery is released as open source Jul 23 19:48:59 s/syngery/synergy/ Jul 23 19:49:03 just the providers are missing Jul 23 19:49:12 speak of the devil Jul 23 19:49:14 ah, thanks for clarification Jul 23 19:49:32 morphis: good to know. Sadly no examples then :) Jul 23 19:49:39 fx1: you can just copy the google provider from a webOS distribution and it works in OWO Jul 23 19:49:46 EricBlade: I heart you did some synergy adapters? Jul 23 19:49:48 stefan_schmidt: there were on developer.palm.com Jul 23 19:49:50 EricBlade knows all. Jul 23 19:50:07 now that you mention it, i remember seeing the page with those connectors Jul 23 19:50:19 morphis: cool so all adapters should work. Thats nice Jul 23 19:50:19 and there are some proof of concept caldav/cardav synergy connections in the webosnation forum Jul 23 19:50:22 did you know: Palm made Pidgin? Jul 23 19:50:23 yes Jul 23 19:50:32 stefan_schmidt: i'm familiar with contacts and messages to a degree Jul 23 19:50:37 the IM client i used daily for ages before I ever knew they made it Jul 23 19:50:43 morphis: ah, so somebody already started something like this. Goooood :) Jul 23 19:50:51 palm did not make pidgin.. they may have contributed to it Jul 23 19:50:58 stefan_schmidt: yeah but it it's rotting as ipk in the forum Jul 23 19:51:30 hmm. i swear i saw somewhere they were responsibel Jul 23 19:51:34 EricBlade: So, a synergy adapter is a native .so file? Or something else? Jul 23 19:51:42 stefan_schmidt, fx1: https://developer.palm.com/content/api/dev-guide/synergy/overview.html Jul 23 19:51:50 stefan_schmidt: pure java script Jul 23 19:51:56 EricBlade: Like you get an API to code against and deleiver the right format? Jul 23 19:52:02 uh, js Jul 23 19:52:09 hmm Jul 23 19:52:17 look at the doc it's mostly very easy to write a connector Jul 23 19:52:21 and works fine with OWO Jul 23 19:52:39 morphis: should be worth a look at some point anyway. The caldav/carddav adapter that is Jul 23 19:52:50 synergyy! Jul 23 19:53:29 one thing i always hated about messaging app (on phones, before 3.x) was that you were FORCED to have all your accounts logged in , or not at all Jul 23 19:53:42 stefan_schmidt: for sure Jul 23 19:53:49 hmm, I don't know if I want to deal with a whole caldav implentation in js Jul 23 19:54:01 maybe there are some js libs for that Jul 23 19:54:08 surely there's something already written? Jul 23 19:54:27 and all you'd need to write were the code for the DB8 interaction? Jul 23 19:54:28 Don't know. Never done js really. :) Jul 23 19:54:40 fx1: did you ever get that thing you were working on done? Jul 23 19:54:49 waht thing? Jul 23 19:54:52 the site Jul 23 19:54:56 I hoped for a native interface with some simple header files to code against and use libicl and libneon for a start Jul 23 19:55:31 i haven't worked on it since the last time i showed you. i forgot what else you needed Jul 23 19:56:02 EricBlade: Seems the site morphis posted should cover most of my initial questions. Don't bother to dig through your memories :) Jul 23 19:56:03 fx1: uh. well, vertical centering, for one. Jul 23 19:56:30 HaDAk: maybe, you could make a nice list of things you want, and i can chip away Jul 23 19:56:36 i'll get on that Jul 23 19:56:44 thanks =) Jul 23 19:56:48 starting next week, i need to start waking up at 2am and going to bed at like...5pm Jul 23 19:56:52 stefan_schmidt: ah and yes, providers for owncloud support would be very nice Jul 23 19:56:59 lol Jul 23 19:57:03 (preparing for a 6 hour timezome jump) Jul 23 19:57:07 so, i'll have plenty of free time Jul 23 19:57:16 morphis: there's a webos owncloud app Jul 23 19:57:27 https://github.com/owncloud/webos Jul 23 19:57:28 morphis: yeah, but really a lot of work. Jul 23 19:57:53 HaDAk: yeah but that is mostly for file access Jul 23 19:58:00 stefan_schmidt: yes .. Jul 23 19:58:07 i bet there are example connectors somewhere too you can rip the code off and modify small parts Jul 23 19:58:11 morphis: it is, but that would be really nice, too. don't you think? Jul 23 19:58:25 HaDAk: for sure Jul 23 19:58:29 their app is bad though. it needs to be an api for a built in file manager, or other services like the photos app Jul 23 19:58:32 and music Jul 23 19:58:36 stefan_schmidt: btw. you could write your synergy connector in C too Jul 23 19:58:42 you just have to implement a ls2 service Jul 23 19:58:45 HaDAk: My thoughts are more about deeper integration. Like having pictures and files synced in the background. Jul 23 19:58:58 so for example you can reuse any existing caldav/cardav implementation Jul 23 19:59:16 hmm Jul 23 19:59:19 stefan_schmidt: synced up to the server, hopefully. i wouldn't want to sync my owncloud down to my device, except manually. Jul 23 19:59:24 https://developer.palm.com/content/api/dev-guide/synergy/creating-synergy-contacts-package.html Jul 23 19:59:24 "store these files offline" Jul 23 19:59:25 ok, lot of options here it seems Jul 23 19:59:40 because my owncloud has a LOT more space than my touchpad. Jul 23 20:00:04 HaDAk: Upload yes. But also keep some selected folders in sync Jul 23 20:00:17 that tutorial basically holds your hand while they do pretty much what you need Jul 23 20:00:19 stefan_schmidt: i'd find that amenable Jul 23 20:00:53 But that are all sorts of things I would find really useful Jul 23 20:01:13 No idea if and when I would start working on something like this. Jul 23 20:01:50 i foresee one large issue with that, though. Jul 23 20:01:57 battery life. Jul 23 20:02:16 if it's doing constant syncing, you'll either need a push/pull system, or be able to set the sync interval Jul 23 20:02:28 ideally, you'd watch for i/o events and trigger a push mechanism Jul 23 20:02:31 HaDAk: sure. it must be smart Jul 23 20:02:32 which i could teach you how to do Jul 23 20:02:47 but it should also accept a push from the owncloud server, in the event that something changes there Jul 23 20:02:51 Not planning on syncing it without any need every minute :) Jul 23 20:03:09 that's why you watch the filesystem for i/o handles Jul 23 20:03:20 * HaDAk rummages around for a moment Jul 23 20:03:42 http://linux.die.net/man/7/inotify Jul 23 20:04:06 HaDAk: Thanks, I know about inotify Jul 23 20:04:07 that's what you'd really want to use. it's the most efficient way of doing it. Jul 23 20:04:18 stefan_schmidt: good good. i just learned about it not too long ago. Jul 23 20:04:40 anyway. my shift is up, and i am bored at work. Jul 23 20:04:44 i'll see you guys later. Jul 23 20:04:46 I would expect OWO would offer something more high level though. Combined info from e media scanner for example Jul 23 20:05:14 later HaDAk Jul 23 20:05:16 doing the watch on the fs level seems an interesting choice for such a system :) Jul 23 20:13:02 sorry guys, i got distracted by work Jul 23 20:13:22 You can write a synergy connector in anything that can talk to db8 actually Jul 23 20:14:03 you could write one in shell scripts and using luna-send if you really wanted Jul 23 20:14:03 :D Jul 23 20:14:13 LOL Jul 23 20:14:15 yeah, thats the way to go ;) Jul 23 20:14:35 EricBlade: more serious. Thats good to hear Jul 23 20:14:51 I think I will go through the official docs first Jul 23 20:15:08 but that is all nothing in the near future Jul 23 20:15:19 the official docs are pretty good at what they cover, but if you want to do messaging or mail, then there's nothing or extremely little for it, as far as i know Jul 23 20:15:26 but open doesn't have messaging Jul 23 20:15:27 More thinking aloud what I think need to have :) Jul 23 20:15:36 open does however have mail, contacts, calendar Jul 23 20:15:42 you can always open the messaging app and dig in Jul 23 20:15:55 strip it, use waht you need Jul 23 20:16:02 I would be fine with contacts and calendar for the beginning I think Jul 23 20:16:24 github.com/ericblade has some source for interacting with messaging, and i may have done a template for contacts as well Jul 23 20:17:00 cool, added to my tabs :) Jul 23 20:17:41 there's a used-to-function whatsapp client on there that probably needs some love to update it to whatever their current api does Jul 23 20:19:43 * stefan_schmidt is off for a moment. later Jul 23 23:37:25 Hello! Jul 23 23:37:30 Anyone home? Jul 23 23:40:00 i am, but i dunno if i can be much help =) Jul 23 23:40:13 hi ! Jul 23 23:40:40 I wanted to ask when is the full port coming out Jul 23 23:40:56 just kidding, was here about a month or two ago, wanting to help code the apps Jul 23 23:41:36 while I was extremely busy and couldn't get much done, I did some looking, and have questions P= Jul 23 23:43:58 do you have time now? Jul 23 23:44:39 it's 2am, so not too long Jul 23 23:44:50 but yes Jul 23 23:54:16 what TZ are you in? Jul 23 23:54:30 CEDT? Jul 23 23:56:13 an hour later Jul 23 23:56:39 okay, are you on holiday now? and what times would you be online here? Jul 23 23:59:02 I work, i'm doing it on my free time, I think I can be online a few hours at least 3 times a day Jul 23 23:59:06 a week* Jul 23 23:59:58 I'm just looking to see how much work this involves, so I can prepare myself best and no delude anyone Jul 24 00:01:13 understood Jul 24 00:01:36 the main developer is online from about 5hrs from now Jul 24 00:01:51 (the one who is coordinating the apps stuff) Jul 24 00:02:05 for how long? Jul 24 00:02:28 he is generally on till 4hrs prior to now each day Jul 24 00:02:34 ok Jul 24 00:02:41 so round about 10pm European Time Jul 24 00:02:49 that'll be good Jul 24 00:02:56 morphis Jul 24 00:02:57 what's his nickname? Jul 24 00:02:59 great Jul 24 00:03:03 thanks Jul 24 00:03:19 I will come by later. Bye :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jul 24 02:59:59 2013