**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 13 02:59:58 2015 Feb 13 08:40:50 morphis: ping Feb 13 08:56:09 Herrie|Veer: pong Feb 13 08:56:11 Garfonso: not sure, Herrie|Veer can tell you better Feb 13 08:56:13 but if no one else comes up with the work feel free to start it Feb 13 08:56:15 Garfonso: backup manager would be also nice Feb 13 08:56:52 morphis: The change for webappmanager doesn't help for Enyo apps Feb 13 08:56:54 morphis: backup manager? Do we have a plan for that? Feb 13 09:28:07 Garfonso: for sure Feb 13 09:28:21 Herrie|Veer: how are you restarting luna-next? Feb 13 09:28:36 Garfonso: my idea was to backup only locally for now and let people restore in firstuse Feb 13 09:28:43 but reusing the infrastructure legacy had Feb 13 09:28:54 as db8 etc. still have support for that Feb 13 09:29:04 Herrie|Veer: systemctl restart luna-next? Feb 13 09:29:12 Herrie|Veer: and did you reboot after you applied the change? Feb 13 09:30:22 Yeah rebooted let me test a bit more when I'm done with this meeting Feb 13 09:47:33 morphis: Did new pr for calculator Feb 13 09:47:39 Should be OK now Feb 13 09:47:52 Did you see PR for FirstUse for dizzy? Feb 13 09:48:24 What did you eventually do with the calendar one because you said you had build issues locally? Feb 13 10:03:31 Herrie|Veer: from the log it seems there are files missing in the enyo folder? Feb 13 10:04:12 Herrie|Veer: from the log it seems there are files missing in the enyo folder? Feb 13 10:05:01 hmmmz strange... Maybe it was github acting up again due to large number of files changes Feb 13 10:10:04 Testing it now Feb 13 10:10:08 Redownloaded repo Feb 13 10:11:44 Garfonso you're right let me fix it Feb 13 10:24:20 I'll do a new PR with a fix Feb 13 10:50:47 Herrie|Veer: 857 should be fixed with latest builds Feb 13 10:55:59 morphis : ping Feb 13 11:51:52 djichthys: pong Feb 13 11:57:01 morphis : Just confirming that the pull request for .bb files for nyx modules is against branch dizzy ? Feb 13 11:57:12 right Feb 13 11:57:50 ok pull request has been sent .... thanks Feb 13 12:33:39 morphis: Something in your code that caused 857? Feb 13 12:33:55 For the lunawebappmgr I'll check a bit more now Feb 13 12:34:12 Calendar still seems to have problems for me to build :s Feb 13 12:34:44 Builds OK locally but when I push to GH, dl and try to build again it fails :s Feb 13 12:34:50 Herrie|Veer: just out-of-sync components Feb 13 12:34:59 Herrie|Veer: how does it fail? Feb 13 12:36:04 It doesn't build, no error msg but only enyo.css in deploy folder Feb 13 12:36:12 I can build with -v right? Feb 13 12:36:55 yes Feb 13 12:37:00 you should to see those errors Feb 13 12:37:35 let me try again Feb 13 12:38:26 Garfonso: ping Feb 13 12:40:00 ok seems it's cordova.js that's the culprit Feb 13 12:41:14 asset/nowindow.html seems to refer to it Feb 13 12:41:37 And the assets/nowindow.html is refered to in appinfo.json Feb 13 12:41:47 I guess I'll just add the cordova.js back for now Feb 13 12:46:27 Ah cordova.js was in .gitignore for some reason Feb 13 12:56:41 morphis: fixed + PR for dizzy done Feb 13 12:57:03 Herrie|Veer: thanks Feb 13 13:01:56 Did you pick the firstuse change locally as well (mcc + timezone I mean) Feb 13 14:09:52 This would be syncing between devices, not backup, but DB8 works with multiple update sources, so if one can establish a link btween two devices (for example, via NFC) they could sync their DB8 data for the webOS account. Feb 13 14:10:29 DougReeder: db8 supports the backup service interface which is meant for real backup Feb 13 14:10:39 * DougReeder nods Feb 13 14:11:14 I’m noting that we can support multiple devices on one account better than webOS. Feb 13 14:11:21 yeah Feb 13 14:11:33 but not sure how much of this is left in db8 which can be easily used Feb 13 14:13:07 One key element is distinguishing what should be backed-up & synced, vs. just backed-up (device-spcific) vs. not backed up (transient state). Feb 13 14:14:14 right Feb 13 14:14:43 And if we can use the backup-encryption code from webOS, that would be a huge time-saver. Feb 13 14:14:56 backup-encrypthon code? Feb 13 14:15:25 IIRC, backups were encrypted on-device before being uploaded. Feb 13 14:15:34 ah Feb 13 14:15:47 or, at lease, I assumed that was what was happening, based on features. Feb 13 14:16:08 we're still missing any encryption so you could bundle that with the encryption you do on the device and let the user enter a passphrase on every startup Feb 13 14:16:26 * DougReeder nods Feb 13 14:17:20 but we should start with some basic steps like backing up things like used preferences etc. Feb 13 14:17:46 * DougReeder nods Feb 13 14:18:04 Has anyone calculated the bandwidth & storage needed? Feb 13 14:18:06 including a complete db8 backup is maybe too much and can't be guranteed to be restored correctly Feb 13 14:18:34 DougReeder: I would like to have that dynamic so you can select the storage, either local on device, or your dropbox/owncloud account Feb 13 14:19:31 Ah, allow users to select a files torage service to back up to. Feb 13 14:19:39 but if we start with just some preferences space should be below 100kb Feb 13 14:19:43 right Feb 13 14:19:58 Yeah, that would scale better than having everyone back up to a server of ours. Feb 13 14:20:25 right Feb 13 14:20:32 and I don't really want to store users private data Feb 13 14:20:38 Yeah. Feb 13 14:20:46 we're just a project driven by enthusiast, not a company Feb 13 14:22:02 So, we need a file storage abstraction layer. Feb 13 14:22:14 yes Feb 13 14:22:38 one which has a local backend installed by default Feb 13 14:22:54 I didn’t outline an Intent for that: http://webos-ports.org/wiki/Intents Feb 13 14:23:29 No, wait, Open and Save might correspond. Feb 13 14:23:35 one way would to do that through intents Feb 13 14:23:47 but imho intents are more driven by direct user actions Feb 13 14:24:16 and we're here in the backend layer which works without any user interaction Feb 13 14:24:26 * DougReeder nods Feb 13 14:24:49 so what we can do is that we define a ls2 API which each service can implement similar to what we have to other accounts Feb 13 14:25:35 We might want to make sure any remote file abstratction is compatible with being the back end of the Save Intent. Feb 13 14:26:00 but that would require an app for each backend provider, right? Feb 13 14:26:24 Probably just a service. Feb 13 14:26:48 yeah but currently intents are designed to be forwarded to apps only Feb 13 14:26:55 … the package would typically include an app just to set parameters. Feb 13 14:27:26 buts lets say we have the "save" intent Feb 13 14:27:48 the backup service which runs either when the user requests it or at specific times Feb 13 14:28:01 would then fire the "save" intent for a created backup file Feb 13 14:28:19 if the user hasn't picked a default intent provider we don't know how to complete our process Feb 13 14:28:43 * DougReeder nods Feb 13 14:28:46 or we allow intents directly addresses to specific services or apps Feb 13 14:30:23 I would better leave this to the concept we have already in the account system Feb 13 14:31:38 Hmmm, yeah, the account paradigm might work better here. Feb 13 14:33:13 We might want to define backup services to accept an array of objects, rather than a file. Feb 13 14:33:22 you could also then just build one file manager app which can control all Feb 13 14:34:26 Is there data not in DB8 that must be backed up? Feb 13 14:35:03 yes Feb 13 14:35:09 some configuration files Feb 13 14:35:26 DougReeder: but afaik preBackup just gets a tmpDir in and then the services returns a list of files Feb 13 14:35:44 Hmm Feb 13 14:36:24 we can change that but then we ahve to adjust some services to use the new format Feb 13 14:37:06 I would guess the backup mechanism predates DB8, so we might consider whether a new design would better serve our needs. Feb 13 14:37:33 if that isn't too much work Feb 13 14:37:40 In particular, my understanding is that DB8 was designed to work closely with CouchDB as a back end. Feb 13 14:37:43 afaik db8 already supports incremental backups as it is today Feb 13 14:37:46 * DougReeder nods Feb 13 14:38:00 DougReeder: not sure if that is still true Feb 13 14:38:25 Well, DB8 is certain different from CouchDB. Feb 13 14:38:26 and I would like us not to touch db8 if possible Feb 13 14:38:35 Right. Feb 13 14:39:04 would be great to have such a sync mechanism but we might end up doing things which get over our head in the limited time we have Feb 13 14:39:16 I’m wondering if backup should be specified to backup tempfiles and DB8 objects. Feb 13 14:39:22 * DougReeder nods Feb 13 14:39:37 basically every service can implement the backup interface Feb 13 14:42:55 One issue with making files the unit of backup is that makes it hard to do incremental backups. Feb 13 14:46:35 DougReeder: not really Feb 13 14:46:42 you get an incrementalKey Feb 13 14:46:48 which db8 uses to do incremental backups Feb 13 14:46:59 it then stores the key and determines the subset of data to backup Feb 13 14:47:48 Hmm, sound like I should study the existing APIs before saying anything more. Feb 13 14:48:07 Is the existing mechinism documented anywhere? Feb 13 14:48:11 DougReeder: not really Feb 13 14:48:20 look at https://github.com/openwebos/luna-sysmgr/blob/master/Src/base/BackupManager.cpp Feb 13 14:48:22 * DougReeder makes a moue Feb 13 14:48:51 https://github.com/openwebos/db8/blob/master/src/db/MojDbServiceHandlerInternal.cpp#L136 Feb 13 14:53:44 Then I’ll just say that initially backing up to a remote file service is a great idea, but let’s be sure we don’t cut off the possibility of incremental backup to a database. Feb 13 15:11:36 DougReeder: yeah Feb 13 15:11:49 I think if we stick to what legacy did we're fine for a first version Feb 13 15:18:56 Tofe: with the PIN window handling the PIN window is still taken as card when in card mode? Feb 13 15:38:35 morphis, DougReeder: TouchPad a file capability in synergy. The word/exel thingie uses that and can access local storage, dropbox, box.net. Not 100% sure how trat works. Feb 13 15:38:47 Garfonso: oh nice Feb 13 15:42:20 morphis: pong. Feb 13 15:43:25 This also works for the image app, but I think that's a different capability (image file or something) Feb 13 15:47:35 Garfonso: let me remeber what I wanted from you Feb 13 15:48:06 morning Feb 13 15:48:30 ka6sox: morning Feb 13 15:53:40 Hm.. OK. The capability I meant was called Documents. Feb 13 15:55:31 Garfonso: how much work would it be to introduce a new capability for file storage Feb 13 15:56:01 DougReeder: I'd be very interested in any findings you have on DB8 + CouchDB Feb 13 15:56:05 * bigbluehat is an Apache CouchDB committer Feb 13 15:56:21 would love to see it work again if it doesn't any more Feb 13 15:56:26 Well, it’s more of a design compatibilty. Feb 13 15:57:18 When webOS 2.x was announced in the spring/summer of 2010, there was talk about CouchDB Feb 13 15:57:47 But by release in the fall, nothing about CouchDB, just DB8 Feb 13 15:58:09 But, I did do a demo app using CouchDB. Feb 13 15:59:13 Do you know if the CouchDB sync mechanism depends on both ends supporting map-reduce? Feb 13 15:59:21 morphis: I honestly don't know... From what I saw it should be fairly easy to add new capabilities. We just have to define them somewhere. Feb 13 15:59:46 But it's possible I'm missing something. Feb 13 16:00:23 hm Feb 13 16:00:49 CouchDB uses map-reduce, while DB8 uses conventional indexes (although both store JSON-style objects). Feb 13 16:05:02 morphis: no Feb 13 16:05:25 well, not if you set the window type to 'pin' Feb 13 16:05:31 hm Feb 13 16:05:35 basically we need both Feb 13 16:06:29 when in card mode: PIN window needs to be a normal card and when in first use: pin window needs to be a PIN one Feb 13 16:16:32 DougReeder: the replicator doesn't care what indexes you build Feb 13 16:16:38 as long as there's one by sequence index Feb 13 16:16:40 you're good Feb 13 16:17:07 pouchdb.com has a JS-based implementation fwiw Feb 13 16:17:19 Hmm, I think there’s something that corresponds to that in DB8. Feb 13 16:17:34 likely. Feb 13 16:17:56 I think there’s an implicit index by _rev Feb 13 16:18:00 CouchDB 2.0 is also getting "mango" which is essentially Cloudant Query--which is itself loosely based on MongoDB's query language, but in JSON Feb 13 16:20:24 If you’re interested, the slides from my talk are ar http://www.slideshare.net/reeder29/looseschema-databases-and-heterogenous-data Feb 13 16:20:55 awesome! Feb 13 16:20:56 tnx Feb 13 16:21:14 DougReeder: have you tried PouchDB yet? Feb 13 16:21:21 morphis: mmh ok Feb 13 16:21:25 Queries rather than map-resuce results? Feb 13 16:21:41 I haven’t tried PouchDB, but it sounds interesting. Feb 13 17:58:33 DougReeder: great deck, btw (back from lunch) :) Feb 13 17:58:43 Thanks! Feb 13 17:58:46 PouchDB does map/reduce, and full text search, and a bunch of other things Feb 13 17:58:49 via plugins Feb 13 17:58:55 runs in browsers and on node.js Feb 13 17:59:06 can use various backends (SQLite, indexdb, leveldb) Feb 13 17:59:27 optional pouchdb-server wraps pouchdb on node to provide a CouchDB style HTTP API Feb 13 17:59:36 all told, it's super awesome ;) Feb 13 17:59:38 * DougReeder nods Feb 13 18:00:17 might be nice to see a tutorial for using it with WebOS ;) https://github.com/pouchdb/pouchdb/wiki/Who-or-What-Is-Using-Pouch#tutorials-for-specific-environments Feb 13 18:00:24 I'd read it! ^_^ Feb 13 18:07:50 Cage1___: Ping Feb 13 23:42:08 ping Feb 13 23:51:17 *fighting legacy webos* Synergy is a nice thing.. but they should have postponed it till 3.x.. :-( Feb 14 00:30:18 it would have never come out then Feb 14 01:03:51 TP came out. ;) And synergy is much more mature there, at least for 3rd party software.. 2.x is quite a pain and pretty unfinished. Feb 14 01:23:03 ya but the touchpad itself sucked :p Feb 14 01:58:12 hehe **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Feb 14 02:59:58 2015