**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 11 02:59:58 2015
May 11 04:48:23 <DougReeder> There is now a PR for deletion of individual messages from the Messaging app: https://github.com/webOS-ports/org.webosports.messaging/pull/30
May 11 05:21:01 <Herrie|2> ka6osx: YOu still around?
May 11 05:22:04 <ka6sox> for small values of around
May 11 05:22:27 <Herrie|2> Could you copy 1 more file?
May 11 05:22:37 <ka6sox> from where, to where?
May 11 05:23:01 <Herrie|2> This one: http://build.webos-ports.org/luneos-stable/images/tenderloin/uImage (so just the uImage without any extension) to http://build.webos-ports.org/releases/bombon/images/tenderloin/
May 11 05:41:20 <ka6sox> thats a symlink
May 11 05:43:23 <ka6sox> done
May 11 05:51:49 * JaMa back from Paris
May 11 05:53:04 <ka6sox> JaMa, enjoy it?
May 11 05:58:38 <Herrie|2> Thnx
May 11 06:25:55 <JaMa> yes, it was fun
May 11 06:29:28 <ka6sox> JaMa, first time?
May 11 07:04:12 <Garfonso> morning.
May 11 07:47:34 <Herrie|Veer> morning
May 11 07:48:08 <Tofe> Morning
May 11 07:48:43 <Tofe> JaMa: oh, you were lucky, the week-end weather was wonderful
May 11 07:49:57 <JaMa> ka6sox: yes 1st time
May 11 07:50:18 <JaMa> Tofe: yes, very shiny and only very short rain
May 11 07:50:46 <JaMa> Tofe: you're from France?
May 11 07:51:38 <Tofe> JaMa: yes, Paris :)
May 11 07:51:49 <JaMa> it was good weather to get engaged :)
May 11 07:52:03 <Tofe> wow :) Yeah it was !
May 11 07:52:26 <Herrie|Veer> JaMa: Congrats!,
May 11 07:52:41 <JaMa> Tofe: ah good to know, we decided to re-visit Paris on 10y anniversary, so lets go for beer then :)
May 11 07:52:43 <Garfonso> hehe. Congrats. :)
May 11 07:53:53 <Tofe> congrats too; I'll book May 8th in 10yrs, I don't think I have something planned yet :D
May 11 07:57:11 <Garfonso> Paris really is a nice city.
May 11 07:59:36 <Herrie|Veer> It is :) One of my favorites in Europe but there are plenty nice ones :)
May 11 08:00:25 <Tofe> I like it too -- but it's a really compact one, which sometimes is annoying
May 11 08:01:26 <Tofe> Though you don't get to feel that side too much when visiting, I guess
May 11 08:03:36 <Garfonso> yeah... I would not really want to live there, I guess. :)  Just too big.
May 11 08:06:11 <Tofe> it's a weird lifetyle yes
May 11 08:23:23 <Herrie|Veer> Well Amsterdam is small :P
May 11 08:23:50 <Herrie|Veer> Paris is huge compared to that but pretty much any European capital is :P
May 11 08:24:10 <Herrie|Veer> I like Prague as well, but been there way too often :P At least a dozen or so times m)
May 11 08:38:28 <Tofe> Herrie|Veer: w.r.t. the keyboard layout, do you know why the Palm guys would have chosen to *not* show the "..." when there is no popover ?
May 11 08:39:01 <Tofe> it just looks like a weird choice, at first sight
May 11 08:39:46 <Tofe> maybe it's just to indicate that the vkb is in a "popover" mode, but still...
May 11 08:53:37 <Herrie|Veer> Tofe: To me it makes sense to show it only on keys where there is a popover value?
May 11 08:53:50 <Herrie|Veer> If there's no values why would you show ..?
May 11 08:54:35 <Tofe> no no, I mean, when no popover is currently shown, the "..." is not displayed at all on the whole vkb
May 11 08:54:59 <Herrie|Veer> To only show them in popover state doesn't make much sense to me. You'd want to know right away if there's other options for that key so the tap & hold behavior is predictable imho
May 11 08:55:14 <Tofe> I totally agree :)
May 11 08:55:16 <Herrie|Veer> Otherwise you'd have to guess...
May 11 08:55:40 <Herrie|Veer> That design decision made no sense to me. Only reason I can think of is visuals...
May 11 08:55:46 <Tofe> That's why I wondered why the legacy vkb on TP has that behavior
May 11 08:55:54 <Herrie|Veer> Now the key can look "cluttered" a bit
May 11 08:56:08 <Tofe> eventually. But I think it's worth it
May 11 08:56:11 <Herrie|Veer> But with a grey ... I don't see how it's disturbing
May 11 08:56:57 <Tofe> ok, let's agree we'll keep our current implementation, and diverge a bit from legacy vkb on that point
May 11 08:58:43 <Herrie|Veer> We could make it a Tweaks option in case people are bothered :P
May 11 09:00:53 <Tofe> hehe we'll see
May 11 09:09:52 <Tofe> Herrie|Veer: I'm adding a fix that will make so that the window mouse mask of the vkb will be more precise: if you click on the right of the popover but above the rest of the vkb for example, it will be considered as a click outside of the keyboard
May 11 09:30:19 <Herrie|Veer> :)
May 11 11:44:51 <Herrie|Veer> Tofe: Did a small PR :)
May 11 11:45:49 <Tofe> ok!
May 11 11:46:57 <Herrie|Veer> Mainly cosmetics :)
May 11 11:48:24 <Tofe> yes, just had one little comment, otherwise fine
May 11 11:49:17 <Herrie|Veer> Sorry let me fix that....
May 11 11:49:28 <Herrie|Veer> I guess I copied it from the wrong file :P
May 11 11:49:36 <Tofe> no pb
May 11 11:49:45 <Tofe> review are there exactly for that :)
May 11 11:55:41 <Herrie|Veer> Tofe should be better now :)
May 11 12:15:22 <Tofe> removal of noMagnifier was intended ?
May 11 12:16:13 <Tofe> I remember there's some logic based on that flag
May 11 12:18:36 <Herrie|Veer> Tofe: It seems to work OK for the return button now without it
May 11 12:18:54 <Herrie|Veer> Where before it would show the magnifier when noMagnifier wasn't present
May 11 12:19:06 <Herrie|Veer> Probably some fixing you did over the weekend
May 11 12:19:51 <Herrie|Veer> It's probably a positive side effect of something else you fixed :)
May 11 12:20:31 <Herrie|Veer> In general I wonder if we need a magnifier on tablet keyboard altogether. I understand it's useful on a phone but not that much on a tablet tbh
May 11 12:25:52 <Tofe> I quite agree
May 11 12:26:30 <Tofe> merged
May 11 12:31:08 <Tofe> Herrie: here's the next thing: https://github.com/webOS-ports/webos-keyboard/pull/26
May 11 12:49:20 <Herrie|Veer> OK well I don't think I can test this much on desktop?
May 11 13:18:53 <DougReeder> JaMa, congratulations!
May 11 13:29:50 <Tofe> Herrie|Veer: nope :)
May 11 13:37:35 <morphis> JaMa: congratulations!
May 11 13:37:53 <morphis> looks like it wasn't only me to take 2015 to do that step :)
May 11 13:50:51 <JaMa> :) thanks all
May 11 14:04:39 <Tofe> Herrie: actually, there is one modification that is visible on desktop: the commenting or not of phoneKeyboardHeightPortrat. If you use the phone layout, resize the window to get a portrait-alike window, you'll see the problem
May 11 14:06:57 <Herrie|Veer> How to use the phone layout?
May 11 14:09:35 <Tofe> make the width smaller :)
May 11 14:09:51 <Tofe> or you mean, from tablet to phone?
May 11 14:10:27 <Tofe> then modify SettingsStub.js in the keyboard-test project
May 11 14:11:06 <Herrie|Veer> Yeah that's what I did but I seme stuck with tablet key bg and not phone ones :P
May 11 14:11:11 <Herrie|Veer> Hence I was confused :P
May 11 14:17:43 <Tofe> Herrie: so we agree on phoneKeyboardHeightPortrait ?
May 11 14:18:36 <Herrie|Veer> I agree we should have some initial value :P
May 11 14:24:38 <Tofe> ok :)
May 11 14:24:42 <Tofe> let's merge the PR then
May 11 14:25:42 <Herrie|Veer> Yup :)
May 11 14:25:58 <Herrie|Veer> Any idea why we don't get the phone bg images?
May 11 14:28:29 <Tofe> Herrie|Veer: when ?
May 11 14:29:11 <Tofe> ah, for the trackball ? It's just a mistake in the code, I guess
May 11 14:30:07 <Herrie|Veer> No I guess it was my build
May 11 14:30:15 <Herrie|Veer> Just retried and it's OK now
May 11 14:30:59 <Herrie|Veer> Tofe: I don't think we'll need the trackball for phone
May 11 14:31:23 <Tofe> Maybe with arrows ?
May 11 14:31:37 <Herrie|Veer> But yeah noticed that as well. It seems OK now on my desktop. Just I had black bg before with grey keys, now it's all OK
May 11 14:31:44 <Herrie|Veer> Just see some tweaking is needed
May 11 14:32:03 <Tofe> white text would be welcome!
May 11 14:32:48 <Herrie|Veer> Yup let me play a bit with that
May 11 14:33:05 <Herrie|Veer> Can you give a stab at the height stuff for the tablet keyboard?
May 11 14:34:05 <Herrie|Veer> ExtendedKeysSelector could be used is a modified form for the XS, S, M and L selection, the tricky part would be doing the actual resize
May 11 15:32:34 <Herrie|Veer> Tofe: Did a small PR to take care of the font color
May 11 15:36:27 <ka6sox> JaMa, congrats!
May 11 15:44:33 <Tofe> Herrie|Veer: yes, I'll look at that
May 11 15:45:03 <Herrie|Veer> Really nothing too shocking
May 11 15:45:12 <Herrie|Veer> Similar approach as for images :)
May 11 16:10:57 <PatrickC> http://techaeris.com/2015/05/11/skynet-least-nsa
May 11 16:10:59 <PatrickC> welp...
May 11 17:09:14 <DougReeder> Hey, there’s a conference on systems without centralized ownershipt in Berlin on May 23 & 24: http://dtn.is/
May 11 17:09:43 <Tofe> Herrie: https://github.com/webOS-ports/webos-keyboard/commit/f660ddc489667832b5694571d5d27b59d531c2f1 <-- some comments ? I didn't fix the look of the vkb when we have something else then Large size, but it looks awful right now.
May 11 17:10:08 <DougReeder> We should send someone. As in, I’m willing to contribute travel funds so someone can go.
May 11 17:19:55 <DougReeder> Is anyone available to travel to Berlin the weekend after this coming one?
May 11 17:20:56 <Tofe> Not me, already have plans that week-end
May 11 17:26:22 <DougReeder> There are a number of interesting projects by the speakers and organizers (peer-to-peer resource sharing, etc.). We need someone to sort through which are relevant to LuneOS, and which are irrelevant or excesively optimistic.
May 11 17:27:39 <DougReeder> I didn’t see anything specific on something that would allow us to distribute updates via BitTorrent, but that’s the kind of thing we need, to scale to millions of users.
May 11 17:48:11 <GodGinrai> what, like OTA updates for LuneOS?
May 11 17:54:38 <DougReeder> Yes.
May 11 18:09:52 <GodGinrai> DougReeder: I'm not really sure that makes sense
May 11 18:10:44 <GodGinrai> I think it would make more sense to go with a rolling-release model and let the users update their system with a package manager
May 11 18:12:13 <DougReeder> Whatever the timing, update files will need to be distributed to millions of users.
May 11 18:12:21 <Garfonso> GodGinrai: that is what already happens. :)
May 11 18:12:38 <DougReeder> Do we want a single server trrying to service millions of users?
May 11 18:12:46 <GodGinrai> Garfonso: and that's what makes sense
May 11 18:13:32 <GodGinrai> DougReeder: if you use a robust package manager like pacman, there is support for multiple mirrors and standalone downloaders
May 11 18:14:00 <GodGinrai> Plus, "millions" of users is a bit pretentious atm
May 11 18:15:07 <DougReeder> We certainly won’t have millions of users this year or next, but I’d like to stay ahead of the curve.
May 11 18:15:49 <Garfonso> if we get millions of users, then probably some universities will be willing to host mirrors, like for linux. :)
May 11 18:15:56 <DougReeder> The key point is to NOT assume the infrastructure we adopt now will be the same forever.
May 11 18:16:20 <GodGinrai> Garfonso's right.  If we get that many users, we would have no problems setting up mirrors
May 11 18:17:49 <DougReeder> Maybe conventional mirrors will work fine for us.  Though we need to distribute users among mirrors.
May 11 18:23:01 <DougReeder> I’m not advocating any particular solution, I’m saying we to stay abreast of the technology. So we don’t pick a technology that will cause us growing pians later.
May 11 18:25:26 <DougReeder> The implementations of mirrors that I’m familiar with force the end user to choose a server, which is confusing.
May 11 18:29:27 <GodGinrai> if we send the users through load balancers, then that alleviates that problem.  There's many solutions, and there isn't much reason to figure out exactly how it is going to work while such numbers of users is currently mere fantasy
May 11 18:30:00 <GodGinrai> Preparing for the future has its merits, but if your head is always trying to solve future problems, then you don't get any current problems solved.
May 11 18:33:36 <DougReeder> That’s true, but if we don’t plan where we want to go, we’ll probably wind up somewhere else.
May 11 18:41:53 <Herrie> Tofe: KB looking good. Seems I get a regression with the annotation color but could be my screen and my work
May 11 18:41:56 <Herrie> Will debug a bit
May 11 18:42:15 <Herrie> Will deal with the scaling too
May 11 18:42:32 <Herrie> It doesn't look that bad when you put the settingsstub to 1024 * 768
May 11 18:53:49 <Herrie> Tofe: I noticed hight changes when you switch to symbols keyboard no matter XS, S, M or L
May 11 18:54:01 <Herrie> Didn't really find any clues where this comes from though, any ideas?
May 11 19:00:40 <Herrie> Ah could be the charkey that needs replacing at some places
May 11 19:00:43 <Herrie> Let me try that
May 11 20:31:40 <Tofe> Herrie: ah, I don't know the reason yet
May 11 21:35:29 <ka6sox> http://www.gadgtspot.com/2015/05/11/luneos-may-stable-release-cafe-bombon-now-available/
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 12 02:59:59 2015