**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Nov 10 02:59:57 2009
Nov 10 03:05:49 <kesne> Roy-Pre101 you still there?
Nov 10 03:06:15 <zsoc> kesne, i don't think you can write your own app review ;)
Nov 10 03:06:29 <kesne> What?
Nov 10 03:06:57 <zsoc> lol, it was a jest. Roy has just asked if anyone wanted to write an app review.
Nov 10 03:08:09 <kesne> ah
Nov 10 03:08:11 <kesne> For what?
Nov 10 03:10:00 <zsoc> wasn't specific...
Nov 10 03:10:05 <kesne> ah
Nov 10 03:10:15 <kesne> I had a server related question
Nov 10 03:10:24 <kesne> he does lots of the server work for Keen Studios Online
Nov 10 03:10:53 <zsoc> ah. i see.
Nov 10 03:11:40 <kesne> Like the game stuff
Nov 10 03:11:42 <kesne> I do user stuff
Nov 10 03:11:59 <kesne> But really, Roy is great
Nov 10 03:12:06 <kesne> like, amazing
Nov 10 03:12:07 <kesne> heh
Nov 10 03:12:21 <kesne> (though I am paying him)
Nov 10 03:20:59 <rboatright> kesne  --jordan, willing to guniae pig somthing for me?
Nov 10 03:21:06 <kesne> You bet
Nov 10 03:21:08 <kesne> always am
Nov 10 03:22:35 <rboatright> see pm
Nov 10 03:54:59 <Roy-Pre101> rboatright: Back
Nov 10 04:05:49 <tmeizeli> Anyone know: Is there any case where a dragStart doesn't result in a dragEnd?
Nov 10 04:06:01 <tmeizeli> Events I mean?
Nov 10 04:07:57 <Roy-Pre101> Maybe if you drag off screen?
Nov 10 04:08:04 <Roy-Pre101> Don't know
Nov 10 04:08:16 <Roy-Pre101> Dragging needs a whole page or two on webos101.
Nov 10 04:10:59 <tmeizeli> I was just wondering because I set up those events on an element and the dragstart seems to work but many times the tap event will fire instead of the dragend event, and I am wondering if its something I'm doing wrong or some quirk I don't know about..
Nov 10 04:11:22 <sugardave> letting go too fast?
Nov 10 04:11:30 <Roy-Pre101> :)
Nov 10 04:11:44 <Roy-Pre101> You have to drag a minimum of 15 px to make it a drag, I think.
Nov 10 04:13:27 <tmeizeli> Maybe, but it seems to happen on a semi-regular basis and I usually drag it across the screen.
Nov 10 04:13:51 <tmeizeli> Hmm.. It's probably something I'm doing wrong
Nov 10 04:16:01 <tmeizeli> Ahh well, thanks tho, if your interested I'll let you know what it is if I find out.
Nov 10 04:17:56 <Roy-Pre101> please
Nov 10 04:27:20 * kesne bbl
Nov 10 05:02:47 <dawm> that was quick.. took 15mins to isntall Win7
Nov 10 05:03:59 <zsoc> ...
Nov 10 05:06:11 <Roy-Pre101> That is quick.
Nov 10 05:06:21 <Roy-Pre101> I plan to install snow leopard soon, I think.
Nov 10 05:06:24 <Roy-Pre101> We'll see how -that- goes.
Nov 10 05:07:14 <dawm> i had SL on my Mini9 but it seems sluggish so i put ubuntu back on
Nov 10 05:07:42 <reality9110> need more screen space
Nov 10 06:01:02 <tarelerulz1> How good is the media support on WebOs ?  Do the movies have to be converted ipod like format ? What media types have you all play on it ?
Nov 10 06:01:32 <Roy-Pre101> It supports a lot.  Do a quick google search on supported video formats palm pre
Nov 10 06:01:39 <Roy-Pre101> At least, I found it that way before.
Nov 10 06:04:31 <jauderho> wmv will not play fwiw
Nov 10 06:05:09 <tarelerulz1> Well, I don't rip into .wmv so I am good .
Nov 10 06:05:43 <tarelerulz1> I read and been told it use gtream ,but I was more wondering what you all have tried on it .  Any one put say like .avi on it
Nov 10 06:11:02 <jauderho> I was trying to downsample a mp4 file into ipod sized format with no luck
Nov 10 06:11:31 <jauderho> apparently handbrake's conversion of 5.1 down to stereo does not work so well.
Nov 10 06:19:42 <tarelerulz1> converting all ways seemed painful for me.  The ipod was so picky of what it would take .
Nov 10 06:21:33 <tarelerulz1> What is the media player like on WebOs ?
Nov 10 06:26:10 <rwhitby> https://twitter.com/webosinternals/status/5582405806 <- wIRC released through Preware
Nov 10 06:26:24 <Roy-Pre101> Wot
Nov 10 06:26:26 <Roy-Pre101> woot
Nov 10 06:26:28 <Roy-Pre101> woooot
Nov 10 06:27:25 <kridx1> tarelerulz1: HandBrakeCLI -i $1 -o $2 -w 480 -l 320
Nov 10 06:27:56 <kridx1> gave me a playable video from a 720 HD source
Nov 10 06:28:15 <kridx1> the media player plays videos, and doesn't suck utterly
Nov 10 06:28:24 <kridx1> beyond that, I haven't used it enuf to really know
Nov 10 06:29:03 <kridx1> I can't get excited about watching anything more significant than a throwaway youtube clip on a 3" screen
Nov 10 06:29:56 <kridx1> If you're under the age of 30, or have already made the transition to bifocals, ymmd...
Nov 10 06:30:05 <tarelerulz1> I have watched longer movies on ipod ,but I also did have some youtube clips on it too.
Nov 10 06:31:57 <kridx1> the video player does remember where you were in a video
Nov 10 06:32:43 <kridx1> and it's got a progress slider, unlike the stock music player, so you can move around in the movie
Nov 10 06:33:13 <tarelerulz1> That is all most must in a media player
Nov 10 06:33:47 <kridx1> so yeah, like I said, doesn't suck utterly
Nov 10 06:34:56 <tarelerulz1> The biggest different from it and anything else I heard of is gtream . If they use that as to the max the could have media player that beat the iphone.
Nov 10 06:40:45 <tarelerulz1> I guess I dork like that .  I have used Linux for while and I am starting to have every songs in formats besides mp3 , rip my own stuff so its ogg and Even apples losses format on here too. It would be nice to though that all on phone/computer/media player with out worry about converting stuff .
Nov 10 07:56:00 <jauderho> kridx1: when I try that, I get audio decoder unknown AAC, and it looks like the audio is slowed down 3x.
Nov 10 07:56:34 <jauderho> really quite annoying
Nov 10 08:00:44 <jauderho> looks like I'm not the only one. Googling "sound is in slow - handbrake" shows a bunch of results
Nov 10 08:00:48 <jauderho> boo
Nov 10 08:05:49 <CTLAdvance> What are you trying to do with the AAC files?
Nov 10 09:04:01 <peteski> morning
Nov 10 11:06:30 <tarelerulz1> does it matter what type of video you put on the webos as long as it is the right res ?
Nov 10 12:28:07 <JenP_studying> hi all!
Nov 10 13:28:14 <FreeTim3> gdMorning JenP
Nov 10 13:40:12 <zefanja> Hello...is there a memory limit for Ajax requests? I could load an 6MB XML without problems if the xml is on the device, but when i tried to request the same file over the air, I'm not able to load the file.
Nov 10 13:50:57 <binarious> Hey guys! Can someone tell me how to re-add google accounts on my pre? Only get an error message...
Nov 10 14:06:32 <twicker> join #webos-watercooler
Nov 10 14:06:46 <twicker> dur
Nov 10 14:06:53 <MX_> sup ppl
Nov 10 14:07:20 <MX_> first time rooting the pre here, having a little problem on the optware part
Nov 10 14:07:26 <twicker> i need to figure out how to tab in the terminal app
Nov 10 14:11:30 <Roy-Pre101> New Post:  A Guide to CSS Transitions in webOS, By Dan Kurtz of @SelfAwareGames  http://bit.ly/jyakJ
Nov 10 14:12:12 <Roy-Pre101> "rooting" isn't exactly right since it implies overcoming some sort of security.
Nov 10 14:12:13 <binarious> Hey guys! Can someone tell me how to re-add google accounts on my pre? Only get an error message...
Nov 10 14:12:27 <Roy-Pre101> binarious: Never heard of that problem.  What error message?
Nov 10 14:12:49 <binarious> Hes is not able to connect.
Nov 10 14:13:06 <binarious> Internet-Connection is well and my login-information, too.
Nov 10 14:13:28 <binarious> It worked for me since I have deleted it and wanna re-add it :( .
Nov 10 14:15:20 <Roy-Pre101> Don't know.  You completely removed the old account?
Nov 10 14:15:44 <binarious> Removed the calendar in google and removed the account on my palm.
Nov 10 14:15:59 <binarious> Created a new calendar in google and want to add my account again.
Nov 10 14:16:01 <pYr0x> hi guys...
Nov 10 14:17:28 <binarious> Roy-Pre101: I'm not alone ;-) http://www.google.ru/support/forum/p/Google+Mobile/thread?tid=670649b2856be2bc&hl=en
Nov 10 14:17:37 <Roy-Pre101> Mmm...
Nov 10 14:17:43 <twicker> so... how you tab in the terminal app?
Nov 10 14:17:45 <Roy-Pre101> Well...  A bit beyond me, then.
Nov 10 14:17:56 <Roy-Pre101> twicker: Did you read the webos-internals.com wiki entry on Terminal?
Nov 10 14:18:00 <binarious> (webos 1.1.3)
Nov 10 14:18:10 <twicker> nada senor
Nov 10 14:18:31 <binarious> Roy-Pre101: Do you know when webos > 1.2 will be released in germany? :( maybe it solves the problem.
Nov 10 14:18:40 <twicker> .org
Nov 10 14:18:54 <Roy-Pre101> binarious: I would guess within a week, given Pixi was spotted with 1.3.1 in the wild.
Nov 10 14:19:01 <twicker> yea, i should prolly poke around there a bit more
Nov 10 14:19:11 <Roy-Pre101> oh, right, .org. :)
Nov 10 14:19:35 <binarious> hm thank you.. maybe I'll set my pre back to manufacture settings...
Nov 10 14:20:16 <bmyers> thumbs up on the webos css guide!
Nov 10 14:21:20 <bmyers> looking forward to the 1.3.1 update. hopefully that’ll stop the device from insisting on installing 1.2.1 OVER AND OVER AGAIN
Nov 10 14:21:28 <mikewx> amen
Nov 10 14:22:01 <mikewx> maybe if we're really lucky it will allow us to isntall more apps. I have like 8 apps and it won't let me install another
Nov 10 14:22:06 <Roy-Pre101> bmyers: Please retweet/post a link to it!  It's a great article Dan wrote.
Nov 10 14:22:20 <pg13_> oh bmyers, cool thanks for the info i was wondering what was wrong with my phone.
Nov 10 14:22:39 <pg13_> i was under the impression that palm was noticing inconsistences in patched files and was trying to reinstall over and over again.
Nov 10 14:22:43 <pg13_> but now thanks to you i know the truth :)
Nov 10 14:24:27 <bmyers> i dunno what the deal is with 1.2.1 but i’m not the only one. i do have a few hacks in there from webosDr
Nov 10 14:25:03 <mikewx> bmyers: i had sameissue, drnull had a temporary fix i applied, so far so good
Nov 10 14:25:58 <bmyers> been too busy to bother to fix it. it’s a little annoying but..
Nov 10 14:28:12 <binarious> someone else know how to re-add google accounts on pre?
Nov 10 14:30:00 <bmyers> binarious: r u getting an error or something when you try to add it again?
Nov 10 14:30:25 <binarious> It says he is not able to connect. bmyers.
Nov 10 14:30:47 <bmyers> wifi or evdo?
Nov 10 14:31:41 <binarious> no wifi... of now I see it works. i tried it 30 times... my 31th try worked O.o
Nov 10 14:31:50 <binarious> -of
Nov 10 14:31:56 <bmyers> happens all the time..
Nov 10 14:32:06 <binarious> that's it :o)
Nov 10 14:32:08 <pYr0x> hi guys... anyone has an answer ? https://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3140
Nov 10 14:33:17 <bmyers> seriously?
Nov 10 14:37:09 <Rick-work> pYr0x you want to access your apache running on your desktop?
Nov 10 14:37:16 <pYr0x> yes
Nov 10 14:37:26 <Rick-work> from your pre or from the emulator?
Nov 10 14:37:29 <pYr0x> for ajax testing
Nov 10 14:37:36 <pYr0x> emulator
Nov 10 14:37:56 <Rick-work> that's going to be "hard"
Nov 10 14:38:04 <Rick-work> localhost for the emulator is the emulator
Nov 10 14:38:13 <Rick-work> and it shares an ip with your desktop
Nov 10 14:38:53 <Rick-work> have you looked at virtualbox settings?
Nov 10 14:39:53 <pYr0x> for what?
Nov 10 14:40:29 <Rick-work> if you bring up virtualbox..  Not the emulator, but the virtual box application, and choose the emulator and choose settings,
Nov 10 14:40:48 <Rick-work> go to network settings and ensure that the network connection type is set to "nat"
Nov 10 14:41:26 <pYr0x> ok waht
Nov 10 14:42:07 <pYr0x> the cinnection tyoe ist "nat"
Nov 10 14:42:12 <pYr0x> connection
Nov 10 14:42:15 <pYr0x> type
Nov 10 14:43:13 <pYr0x> ok localhost ist the emulator... but what ist about the IP
Nov 10 14:43:21 <bmyers> the emu sets up a virtual net. something in the 10.0.2.something
Nov 10 14:43:27 <pYr0x> it doesn't work
Nov 10 14:43:43 <bmyers> type ipconfig on a command box on ur windows pc
Nov 10 14:43:59 <bmyers> look for the 10.0.0. network on there
Nov 10 14:44:08 <bmyers> connect to that ip from the emu
Nov 10 14:44:15 <bmyers> make sure apache will answer any ip
Nov 10 14:45:06 <pYr0x> how can i connect from the emu to an IP?
Nov 10 14:45:46 <bmyers> u want the emu to connect to the windows apache instance correct?
Nov 10 14:46:02 <pYr0x> yes
Nov 10 14:46:22 <pYr0x> so i start the emu
Nov 10 14:46:22 <bmyers> so in the emu browser or r u doing ajax calls in a program u wrote?
Nov 10 14:46:41 <pYr0x> via mojo
Nov 10 14:47:24 <Rick-work> pYr0x  in a windows command window,  do ipconfig  and look for an ethernet adaptor called "virtualbox host-only network" and write down the ip address of that network.
Nov 10 14:47:50 <Rick-work> then,  in your mojo,  use http:// plus that ip address
Nov 10 14:48:11 <Rick-work> and ensure that your apache instance will respond to ANY ip address, not just "localhost"
Nov 10 14:48:27 <bmyers> look for this adapter in you windows box ipconfig: Ethernet adapter VirtualBox Host-Only Network
Nov 10 14:48:49 <Rick-work> bmyers  gmta
Nov 10 14:48:57 <bmyers> use the ip address u find there to ping from the emu to the windows box
Nov 10 14:49:14 <pYr0x> Verbindungsspezifisches DNS-Suffix:
Nov 10 14:49:16 <pYr0x>  Verbindungslokale IPv6-Adresse  . : fe80::586:1cc1:2f87:26ae%33
Nov 10 14:49:17 <pYr0x>  IPv4-Adresse  . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.56.1
Nov 10 14:49:19 <pYr0x>  Subnetzmaske  . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Nov 10 14:49:24 <bmyers> same as mine
Nov 10 14:49:45 <pYr0x> ok and now in mojo send an ajax request to that ip?
Nov 10 14:49:54 <bmyers> go to emu broswer
Nov 10 14:50:00 <bmyers> type in that number
Nov 10 14:50:03 <bmyers> what do u get?
Nov 10 14:50:15 <Rick-work> (( You SHOULD get your apache home page))
Nov 10 14:50:31 <pYr0x> ohh
Nov 10 14:50:33 <pYr0x> no :(
Nov 10 14:50:39 <pYr0x> i get
Nov 10 14:50:51 <pYr0x> "file2kElas"
Nov 10 14:51:19 <bmyers> ok Rick, u take over from here :)
Nov 10 14:51:30 <pYr0x> hehe :)
Nov 10 14:51:33 <Rick-work> pYr0x  try bringing up a browser on your windows desktop and put in that address.
Nov 10 14:51:41 <Rick-work> (Leave the emulator running)
Nov 10 14:51:51 <Rick-work> if you close the emulator, that address goes away.
Nov 10 14:52:13 <pYr0x> must i add this ip to the hosts?
Nov 10 14:52:17 <Rick-work> no
Nov 10 14:52:19 <Rick-work> not yet
Nov 10 14:52:35 <pYr0x> ok.. so open firefox? and type in the IP
Nov 10 14:52:41 <Rick-work> yes
Nov 10 14:52:52 <bmyers> (apache likely will set itself up to listen to the primary ip)
Nov 10 14:52:54 <pYr0x> ok
Nov 10 14:52:54 <Rick-work> with the emulator running, and with your apache running
Nov 10 14:53:01 <pYr0x> ok did
Nov 10 14:53:02 <Rick-work> bmyers, yep.
Nov 10 14:53:06 <Rick-work> and what happened?
Nov 10 14:53:21 <pYr0x> with the ip i see the apache site
Nov 10 14:53:29 <bmyers> (firewall)
Nov 10 14:53:33 <pYr0x> off
Nov 10 14:53:48 <Rick-work> ok good.
Nov 10 14:53:55 <pYr0x> ok
Nov 10 14:54:03 <Rick-work> do you have putty into the emulator?
Nov 10 14:54:05 <pYr0x> on the emu it works noiw
Nov 10 14:54:12 <Rick-work> ahhhhhh
Nov 10 14:54:13 <Rick-work> good
Nov 10 14:54:14 <pYr0x> why?
Nov 10 14:54:28 <pYr0x> why now?
Nov 10 14:54:35 <Rick-work> if it didn't work, we were going to see if we could figure out why.
Nov 10 14:54:58 <pYr0x> ok it should work...
Nov 10 14:55:11 <Rick-work> Why did it work now?  Two possibilities:   1) hitting it from firefox activated it somehow   or 2) it takes time to come up.
Nov 10 14:55:21 <Rick-work> so your ajax should work.
Nov 10 14:55:39 <pYr0x> so ajax request must send to that IP
Nov 10 14:55:41 <Rick-work> now,  if you don't want to use the IP,  you could edit hosts on the emulator
Nov 10 14:55:54 <Rick-work> and make an entry in hosts ON THE EMULATOR to that ip
Nov 10 14:56:11 <pYr0x> how can i change the hosts on the emulator?
Nov 10 14:56:24 <Rick-work> do you have putty.exe?
Nov 10 14:56:27 <Rick-work> root
Nov 10 14:56:36 <pYr0x> on windows
Nov 10 14:56:37 <pYr0x> yes
Nov 10 14:56:50 <Rick-work> bring up putty, and connect to the emulator
Nov 10 14:57:14 <Rick-work> address localhost  port 5522  username root   no password
Nov 10 14:57:44 <pYr0x> ok
Nov 10 14:58:16 <bmyers> vi is in there...
Nov 10 14:58:17 <pYr0x> very n1
Nov 10 14:58:18 <Rick-work> type     cat /etc/hosts
Nov 10 14:58:18 <pYr0x> :)
Nov 10 14:58:40 <Rick-work> if you know how to use vi,  just edit /etc/hosts
Nov 10 14:58:53 <pYr0x> ok i now
Nov 10 14:58:55 <pYr0x> :)
Nov 10 14:59:04 <Rick-work> I hate vi :)
Nov 10 14:59:11 <pYr0x> i used jow
Nov 10 14:59:14 <pYr0x> joe
Nov 10 14:59:23 <pYr0x> can i install joe?
Nov 10 14:59:32 <Rick-work> you can
Nov 10 14:59:43 <Rick-work> well
Nov 10 14:59:57 <Rick-work> you can install nano  which is pretty much the samething.
Nov 10 15:00:08 <pYr0x> ok
Nov 10 15:00:24 <pYr0x> now i am on the emu
Nov 10 15:00:42 <pYr0x> can i open the source code of different apps?
Nov 10 15:00:50 <peteski> I'm out.. :<
Nov 10 15:01:04 <Rick-work> you can
Nov 10 15:01:11 <pYr0x> all of it?
Nov 10 15:01:34 <Rick-work> all of it
Nov 10 15:01:36 <Rick-work> well,
Nov 10 15:01:41 <Rick-work> the javasccript part
Nov 10 15:01:48 <pYr0x> so i can download a shareware game and modified it
Nov 10 15:01:57 <Rick-work> you can, yes
Nov 10 15:02:14 <Rick-work> you should go to webos-internals.org and read about this.
Nov 10 15:03:02 <pYr0x> ok...
Nov 10 15:03:29 <Rick-work> by the way, your english is amazing.  Like most Americans I am always astonished at the language ability of others.  :-)
Nov 10 15:04:20 <pYr0x> you kidding?
Nov 10 15:05:01 <Rick-work> no.  Except for the occasional "ist" and your pasted German windows phrases I would not have guessed you were a German speaker
Nov 10 15:05:57 <pYr0x> ohh thanks ;)
Nov 10 15:06:48 <pYr0x> so what can I do to avoid  reading the source code
Nov 10 15:07:01 <Rick-work> short answer: nothing
Nov 10 15:07:09 <Rick-work> you want the long answer?
Nov 10 15:07:30 <pYr0x> i guess it's ok ;)
Nov 10 15:07:35 <Rick-work> it's ok.
Nov 10 15:08:06 <Rick-work> here's the medium answer:  All code can be decompiled.  Different compilers result in different amounts of work to do that, but anything can be reversed.
Nov 10 15:08:34 <Rick-work> Having said that, java is dead simple to reverse,  class files can be turned into nicely indented source by just dropping them onto a web page.
Nov 10 15:08:44 <Rick-work> javascript is similar
Nov 10 15:09:14 <Rick-work> you can use the YUI compressor, or the Google Closure compressor to make your code take up less space, use shorter variable names, etc etc,
Nov 10 15:09:45 <pYr0x> ok a compressor...
Nov 10 15:09:48 <Rick-work> but at the end of the day, it can be extracted into nicely formatted source.  Of course, they don't get your comments, your descriptive variable names or your descriptive function names
Nov 10 15:09:54 <Rick-work> but they can read the source.
Nov 10 15:10:03 <pYr0x> ok
Nov 10 15:10:34 <Rick-work> If you have business logic that you really want to keep even safer than that, you put part of the routine on a server and force your users to register and use functions on the server.
Nov 10 15:11:39 <pYr0x> but i can get access to that functions only via javascript? right?
Nov 10 15:12:10 <pYr0x> so no soap or something like that
Nov 10 15:13:44 <Rick-work> no soap library on the pre that I know of.
Nov 10 15:14:07 <pYr0x> ok
Nov 10 15:21:20 <benluo> hi
Nov 10 15:23:37 <pYr0x> Rick-work: one more questtion. jQuery is my standard javascript lib. can there any conflict between mojo and jQuery?
Nov 10 15:24:32 <Rick-work> mojo has prototype installed
Nov 10 15:24:43 <pYr0x> hmm
Nov 10 15:24:44 <Rick-work> so prototype uses the $ shortcuts
Nov 10 15:24:54 <pYr0x> yes...
Nov 10 15:24:55 <Rick-work> so be sure to use jquery calls instead of $ calls
Nov 10 15:25:01 <Rick-work> other than that,  you're all good
Nov 10 15:25:53 <pYr0x> jQuerys DOM manipulation is better then mojos...
Nov 10 15:27:10 <Rick-work> up to you sir
Nov 10 15:27:35 <pYr0x> ;)
Nov 10 15:41:31 <atlanta> heyt alll
Nov 10 15:43:04 <bmyers> yo yo YO
Nov 10 15:43:57 <atlanta> what it do
Nov 10 15:50:02 <bmyers> code’n & code’n. u?
Nov 10 15:50:20 <atlanta> thinking about redoing the text forwarding mod
Nov 10 15:50:42 <atlanta> instead of the popup we have come in now
Nov 10 15:50:44 <atlanta> make it a submenu
Nov 10 15:50:53 <atlanta> instead of a dialog box
Nov 10 15:51:04 <atlanta> might be more intutive
Nov 10 15:52:00 <benluo> bmyers: ?
Nov 10 15:52:26 <bmyers> benluo ?
Nov 10 15:52:42 <benluo> code \222n means?
Nov 10 15:52:49 <benluo> can not catch
Nov 10 15:53:40 <bmyers> sorry, dont quite understand what u mean. u talking ascii code?
Nov 10 15:54:01 <atlanta> http://forums.precentral.net/attachments/palm-pixi/36628d1257829372-getting-pixi-next-monday-9th-20091110_005256.jpg
Nov 10 15:56:12 <bmyers> atlanta: you wrote the attach hack?
Nov 10 15:56:46 <atlanta> jackRipper added that part on
Nov 10 16:00:14 <benluo> i have a app with only one stage
Nov 10 16:00:26 <benluo> i did not use app-assistant
Nov 10 16:00:53 <benluo> but how can i get the only stage instance when I want to use popScene?
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Nov 10 16:04:06 2009
Nov 10 16:04:15 <benluo> i can name a stage ONE-stage
Nov 10 16:04:27 <benluo> and getActive("ONE-stage")
Nov 10 16:04:57 <benluo> a = getActive("ONE-stage")
Nov 10 16:05:05 <benluo> a.pop
Nov 10 16:05:12 <benluo> a.popScene()
Nov 10 16:05:22 <benluo> i want to do that
Nov 10 16:05:23 <benluo> but
Nov 10 16:05:50 <benluo> i only use one stage without name and app
Nov 10 16:06:01 * ElVox now knows what a telegraph was like
Nov 10 16:06:42 <Rick-work> benluo  I don't understand your question either.
Nov 10 16:07:06 <benluo> :(
Nov 10 16:07:06 <Rick-work> you are saying that you create a stage programattically
Nov 10 16:07:16 <Rick-work> and then create a scene programattically in that stage
Nov 10 16:07:22 <Rick-work> and that the scene has no assistant
Nov 10 16:07:26 <benluo> yes without app-assistant
Nov 10 16:07:40 <Rick-work> and you want to know how to pop the scene?
Nov 10 16:07:44 <benluo> yes
Nov 10 16:08:06 <benluo> the scene has assistant
Nov 10 16:08:12 <Rick-work> ok
Nov 10 16:08:27 <Rick-work> and in thes scene assistant, you want to pop the scene that you are in?
Nov 10 16:08:30 <benluo> normally webOS has app-->stage-->scene three layers
Nov 10 16:08:39 <Rick-work> MANY of us do not use app
Nov 10 16:08:45 <Rick-work> just stage --> scene
Nov 10 16:08:50 <benluo> my application from stage-->scene without app
Nov 10 16:08:56 <Rick-work> me too, always
Nov 10 16:09:01 * ElVox is now interested
Nov 10 16:09:31 <benluo> yes. I want to know how to popScene
Nov 10 16:11:01 <Rick-work> Mojo.Controller.stageController.popscene(); from within the scene assistant
Nov 10 16:11:21 <Rick-work> phone call -- bbl
Nov 10 16:12:09 <sugardave> I tried to do an app-controller app on my first attempt....wasn't pretty
Nov 10 16:12:29 <sugardave> luckily everything else I've done to date is simple enough to not have to worry with it
Nov 10 16:14:23 <benluo> :)
Nov 10 16:14:42 <benluo> leave
Nov 10 16:14:42 <benluo> 8
Nov 10 16:19:07 <Mehdi> Is there any news on when the WebOS store will come out of beta?
Nov 10 16:19:17 <Mehdi> is there just low interest in the WebOS platform?
Nov 10 16:19:23 <Mehdi> I don't get it
Nov 10 16:22:51 <sugardave> Mehdi: Once they get the app submission portal working properly, I'd imagine we'll hear more about it
Nov 10 16:23:15 <Mehdi> it feels like they are dropping the ball a bit
Nov 10 16:23:25 <Mehdi> I do wish them luck
Nov 10 16:27:22 <atlanta> i dont even see a reason for app-assistant the only one i use is stage
Nov 10 16:27:30 <atlanta> what would i use the app for
Nov 10 16:27:30 <atlanta> ?
Nov 10 16:38:53 <sugardave> atlanta: you might use an app assistant more if you're doing headless and/or "stay alive" apps
Nov 10 16:40:07 <atlanta>  ok
Nov 10 16:40:08 <atlanta> gothca
Nov 10 16:46:52 <Roy-Pre101> atlanta: Or, maybe multi-stage apps
Nov 10 16:47:09 <atlanta> yea i have to learn what those are first
Nov 10 16:47:09 <atlanta> lol
Nov 10 16:47:20 <atlanta> learning each section at a time
Nov 10 16:47:31 <atlanta> hopefully headless and stay alive apps come next
Nov 10 16:50:57 * sugardave wonders if apps will be updated today.
Nov 10 17:17:27 <rob___> I've got a newbie jquery question.  This command works fine:  $('dial').update("Hello world!");  But this command doesn't seem to update the css:  $('dial').css("top","-250px");
Nov 10 17:17:44 <rob___> I've never used jQuery to modify css on the fly before so I'm sure I'm just doing something wrong.
Nov 10 17:18:04 <rob___> In my example, "dial" is the id on a div.
Nov 10 17:18:35 <sugardave> rob___: use DOM instead...$('dial').setAttribute('style', 'top: -250px;');
Nov 10 17:18:51 <sugardave> but if you do it that way, it will overwrite ALL the style for that element, so include it all
Nov 10 17:18:56 <sugardave> or just do it vai a class name
Nov 10 17:19:11 <sugardave> and you can $('dial').addClassName('classname');
Nov 10 17:19:30 <rob___> Awesome, that worked perfectly.  I'll add an extra class and go from there.  Thanks a lot.
Nov 10 17:19:35 <sugardave> np
Nov 10 17:19:45 <rob___> Does css just not work or did I just misunderstand the docs on the jQuery site?
Nov 10 17:19:55 * sugardave knows nothing about jQuery.
Nov 10 17:20:11 * rob___ knows less than sugardave
Nov 10 17:20:22 <sugardave> haha
Nov 10 17:27:07 <sugardave> rob___: blow off jQuery and look at Prototype instead, since that's what Mojo is using
Nov 10 17:28:39 <gkatsev> personally, i prefer jquery a bit more but since prototype is hardcoded into mojo if you can, it is better to use prototype
Nov 10 17:29:21 <gkatsev> hm... someone should do a speed comparison between jquery and yui and prototype and mootools and jsext and some others and see if prototype is actually fastest on mojo
Nov 10 17:29:37 <rob___> That makes sense.
Nov 10 17:32:12 <ElVox> rob___: prototype is using the $ variable so when you do $('dial') you are getting a prototype decorated element.
Nov 10 17:32:26 <ElVox> try doing jQuery("#dial").css(...)
Nov 10 17:33:41 <rob___> You guys will probably find this quite entertaining.  I thought Mojo used jQuery (not prototype) and have been working from the jQuery docs to try to hack stuff together.  Interestingly, the .update method is the same in both...but not the css method.  Glad I asked before spending more time on it!
Nov 10 17:33:55 <ElVox> or wrap your jQuery code in a "module" like this: (function($){  ...YOUR CODE THAT USES $ for JQUERY HERE...   })(jQuery); so that $ will refer to the jQuery global instead of prototype
Nov 10 17:35:30 <sugardave> OR you could just use prototype :D
Nov 10 17:35:31 <gkatsev> or make jquery use j$ instead of $
Nov 10 17:36:23 <gkatsev> rob___: haha, better late than never, right?
Nov 10 17:36:48 <rob___> Exactly!
Nov 10 17:37:35 <ElVox> sugardave, once you get used to jquery, prototype is like trying to make webapps in assembly :P
Nov 10 17:37:51 <sugardave> ElVox: well, I will get there one day :D
Nov 10 17:37:58 <gkatsev> well, if you know assembly well, wont your programs come out faster? :D
Nov 10 17:38:03 <sugardave> haha
Nov 10 17:38:06 <sugardave> MAYBE
Nov 10 17:38:33 <gkatsev> but probably not, as GCC is probably way smarted than you, unless youve been writing assembly since its insepcion
Nov 10 17:38:39 <gkatsev> (however you spell that, lol)
Nov 10 17:39:05 <sugardave> 1500 downloads for the BOFH Excuse Generator on homebrew....damn, people will install anything
Nov 10 17:39:29 <gkatsev> anyone wants to make a free graphing calculator?
Nov 10 17:39:41 <ElVox> i should write an app that tells you when your phone is on
Nov 10 17:39:54 <sugardave> ElVox: I bet you at least 100 people will download it
Nov 10 17:39:54 <fearphage> webos has already spoiled me. reading a pdf in my browser and i flicked it upward and was like "Where's the momentum?!"
Nov 10 17:39:56 <sugardave> at least
Nov 10 17:39:57 <ElVox> it just says "ON" in the first (and only) scene
Nov 10 17:40:11 <gkatsev> ElVox: no, make it server a page to the pre so you could go to "isiton.com" lol
Nov 10 17:40:19 <ElVox> :D
Nov 10 17:40:21 <ElVox> hahaha
Nov 10 17:40:47 <sugardave> you know what app we need?
Nov 10 17:40:52 <sugardave> a tip calculator
Nov 10 17:40:56 <sugardave> and a twitter client
Nov 10 17:41:03 <gkatsev> sugardave: haha
Nov 10 17:41:23 <gkatsev> no, we need a twittering tip calculator, to let the world know how much tip you are paying
Nov 10 17:41:55 <sugardave> that's perfect
Nov 10 17:42:25 <gkatsev> lol
Nov 10 17:42:34 <gkatsev> thats probably very easy to do
Nov 10 17:42:40 <gkatsev> i kind of want to do that now, lol
Nov 10 17:42:56 <sugardave> slap some ad server code in there, you'll make tens of dollars, easily
Nov 10 17:43:03 <gkatsev> haha
Nov 10 17:43:44 <ElVox> Tweet from Adora: "I just tipped $5 on a $25 meal."
Nov 10 17:44:20 <ElVox> I got a name for the app too: "Twipper"!
Nov 10 17:44:33 <gkatsev> heh
Nov 10 17:44:48 <sugardave> okay, this could work out...I've done a lot of work recently on the ad stuff, so you guys write the app, and I'll put the ad stuff in
Nov 10 17:44:48 <gkatsev> are we putting it on github? lol
Nov 10 17:44:50 <sugardave> win/win
Nov 10 17:50:08 <atlanta_lunch> sugardave: for admob
Nov 10 17:50:08 <atlanta_lunch> ?
Nov 10 17:50:43 <sugardave> admob is what I'm currently throwing around on BOFH Excuse Generator....but the fill rate is low and clicks are either non-existant, or they aren't being counted
Nov 10 17:50:58 <sugardave> I did a test on Quattro Wireless last night...clicks are counted, but the CPC is very low
Nov 10 17:51:10 <sugardave> I'm going to look at Adfonic today
Nov 10 17:52:17 <atlanta_lunch> ok
Nov 10 17:52:20 <atlanta_lunch> let me know your findings
Nov 10 17:52:29 <atlanta_lunch> im gonna give it one more go before submitting if not
Nov 10 17:52:33 <atlanta_lunch> fudge it
Nov 10 17:53:31 <sugardave> alright, I may not be able to look into it for a while later
Nov 10 17:53:49 <atlanta_lunch> oh ok
Nov 10 17:53:55 <pandora--> i have one app up with adfonic
Nov 10 17:54:02 <sugardave> but webos101 has a working parameters object for both Admob and Quattro Wireless if you want to test those
Nov 10 17:54:40 <atlanta_lunch> pandora--: how is it
Nov 10 17:54:43 <atlanta_lunch> showing any return
Nov 10 17:54:55 <atlanta_lunch> sugardave: yea imma test them out later
Nov 10 17:55:25 <pandora--> eh i have very little traffic on the app, so i'm not surprised in my low return
Nov 10 17:55:28 <pandora--> (not palm app)
Nov 10 17:56:07 <sugardave> pandora--: cool, was it easy to take their docs to make your request?
Nov 10 17:56:31 <pandora--> yeah it was pretty easy to dev to their api
Nov 10 17:56:42 <sugardave> great, I thought so...just haven't worked it yet
Nov 10 17:57:52 <atlanta_lunch> adfonic
Nov 10 17:57:57 <atlanta_lunch> ill check them out today then
Nov 10 17:58:03 <atlanta_lunch>  and ill let you 2 know
Nov 10 18:00:18 * sugardave begins thinking of a way to do multiple-network ad-management from the cloud.
Nov 10 18:02:59 <destinal> sugardave:  re the admob issues, I think it's solar flares.
Nov 10 18:03:11 <sugardave> hehe
Nov 10 18:03:19 <sugardave> 'We just switched to Sprint.'
Nov 10 18:04:00 <sugardave> what else should I put in the app?  Maybe some of the original stories?
Nov 10 18:04:05 <sugardave> Dictionary?
Nov 10 18:07:07 <destinal> copy/paste so you can put the excuse it into something maybe?
Nov 10 18:07:41 <sugardave> hmmm....that's an idea
Nov 10 18:07:48 <sugardave> now I have to learn how to copy/paste :D
Nov 10 18:08:22 <sugardave> I also need to wrap that div in a scroller...some of the canned excuses are long and when you scroll it, the buttons move
Nov 10 18:08:24 <atlanta_lunch> sms
Nov 10 18:08:25 <atlanta_lunch> twitter
Nov 10 18:08:29 <atlanta_lunch> email
Nov 10 18:08:48 <destinal> Undetermined Protocol Desynchronisation  :)
Nov 10 18:08:55 <sugardave> haha
Nov 10 18:09:40 <destinal> I could probably use that in a meeting and nobody would be the wiser :)
Nov 10 18:09:47 <atlanta_lunch> lol
Nov 10 18:10:04 <sugardave> almost all of those random ones are awesome...he did a good job building the matrix
Nov 10 18:11:44 <sugardave> "Oh, I think I have a message about that...let me check."  <press> "Oh yeah, it's an 'Illegal Underflow Transmission Error'.  That will take a while to fix."
Nov 10 18:13:07 <Giotto> hey
Nov 10 18:13:17 <sugardave> hi Giotto
Nov 10 18:16:09 <destinal> sugardave: you could add different flavors besides BOFH.  Like a star trek technobabble mode if you're writing a trek script,  "tachyon pulse in the trionic initiator creating a subspace inversion field"
Nov 10 18:16:47 <sugardave> that's a whole other app :D
Nov 10 18:22:30 <bmyers> where can i dl twipper!!
Nov 10 18:23:24 <PuffTheMagic> can the "title" in the app menu change dynamically once a card is open?
Nov 10 18:23:25 <sugardave> bmyers: it's in pre-alpha right now
Nov 10 18:23:57 <sugardave> PuffTheMagic: good question, let us know when you figure out how to do it :D
Nov 10 18:25:52 <gkatsev> bmyers: still at blueprint stage or something, lol
Nov 10 18:25:54 <bmyers> thats funny stuff: twipper for the pre...
Nov 10 18:26:02 <atlanta_lunch> PuffTheMagic: answer to the question is no though
Nov 10 18:26:22 * gkatsev leaves work early and knocks out a template for twipper
Nov 10 18:26:23 <gkatsev> lol
Nov 10 18:26:26 <gkatsev> (not really)
Nov 10 18:26:41 <gkatsev> (i wouldnt leave work early)
Nov 10 18:26:55 <PuffTheMagic> atlanta_lunch: how does the dialer do it when it goes from searching.../international.../sprint...
Nov 10 18:27:19 <atlanta_> good question let me check it out
Nov 10 18:30:18 <funkatron> heya
Nov 10 18:30:33 <funkatron> is it possible to programatically change the icon displayed in the command menu?
Nov 10 18:31:53 <funkatron> Like, I want to change the icon in a button after an action is performed, or if a certain value is passed to the scene assistant
Nov 10 18:36:12 <atlanta_> yea
Nov 10 18:36:18 <atlanta_> you should be able to update the modle
Nov 10 18:36:24 <atlanta_> then call modelChanged
Nov 10 18:36:32 <funkatron> ah, okay, so standard practive
Nov 10 18:36:37 <funkatron> practice even
Nov 10 18:36:41 <funkatron> I'll give that a poke
Nov 10 18:36:44 <atlanta_> yup that should work
Nov 10 18:36:49 <atlanta_> dont see why it wouldnt
Nov 10 18:50:02 <PuffTheMagic> atlanta_: you get anywhere with that or should I be looking?
Nov 10 19:06:09 <egaudet> PuffTheMagic, the carrier string is not an app menu
Nov 10 19:06:23 <egaudet> it's part of top bar scene bar-assistant.js changes it I think
Nov 10 19:06:34 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: if u go into the phone app it is
Nov 10 19:07:14 <egaudet> oh it changes in the phone app too?
Nov 10 19:13:17 <atlanta_> PuffTheMagic: just got back to my desk
Nov 10 19:13:20 <atlanta_> going through phone app now
Nov 10 19:14:04 <dBsooner-work> egaudet: can't you change that setting via luna?
Nov 10 19:14:10 <dBsooner-work> egaudet: the carrier string.
Nov 10 19:14:56 <egaudet> you are reading out of context dBsooner-work
Nov 10 19:15:25 <dBsooner-work> lol
Nov 10 19:15:27 <dBsooner-work> i was jsut reading
Nov 10 19:15:41 <dBsooner-work> I didn't read above.. just read the end.
Nov 10 19:17:22 <twicker> anybody know how to use the volume rocker to unlock the pre from dead state??
Nov 10 19:17:28 <twicker> surely that's possible, right?
Nov 10 19:17:41 <gkatsev> twicker: how dead is your phone?
Nov 10 19:17:46 <gkatsev> bricked?
Nov 10 19:17:50 <twicker> noo
Nov 10 19:17:54 <twicker> i mean from sleeping state
Nov 10 19:18:05 <gkatsev> ah, as in, screen is blank?
Nov 10 19:18:11 <twicker> so i don't have to swipe the little ball to unlock it
Nov 10 19:18:18 <gkatsev> ah, hm...
Nov 10 19:18:33 <gkatsev> there is no way thats built in, but you could probably write a patch that does it
Nov 10 19:18:49 <twicker> well... anybody got any idea how to write that patch?
Nov 10 19:19:33 <twicker> a few guys at P|C are trying to use the volume rocker to unlock the from from sleeping state and automatically answer an incoming call on speakerphone
Nov 10 19:20:23 <atlanta_> its doable
Nov 10 19:20:50 <atlanta_> you put a request on the button
Nov 10 19:20:58 <gkatsev> twicker: there is a patch for taking a picture with the volume rocker, a patch for auto answering with speakerphone when sliding open and the code for the lock screen, combining the three will probably give you what you want.
Nov 10 19:20:58 <atlanta_> and then just do the acceptcall() function
Nov 10 19:22:57 <twicker> but can the volume rocker actually unlock the phone from sleeping state?
Nov 10 19:23:18 <atlanta_> awww ummm
Nov 10 19:23:29 <atlanta_> think that has to do with powerd
Nov 10 19:23:39 <gkatsev> if you add that functionality, possibly
Nov 10 19:29:57 <funkatron> atlanta_: worked like you suggested. thank you
Nov 10 19:30:14 <twicker> somebody was saying in the thread that it might have something to do with luna, which is closed, right now
Nov 10 19:30:21 <twicker> *closed/binary
Nov 10 19:30:23 <twicker> only
Nov 10 19:36:37 <Rick-work> Roy-Pre101  ping
Nov 10 19:41:40 <Rick-work> in a normal javascript app,  if I need the value of a global variable whos name I have in a string, I can do   window[string]  so, if I have a variable numFrogs  and there is another variable whatVar = "numFrogs"   I can do window[whatVar]  and I get the value stored in numFrogs
Nov 10 19:42:02 <Rick-work> but neither document[]   or window[]  seems to work in Mojo apps
Nov 10 19:42:06 <atlanta_> funkatron: no problem
Nov 10 19:42:38 <Rick-work> any ideas?  Roy-Pre101  Templarian sugardave other Javascript mavens?
Nov 10 19:43:28 <Templarian> Rick-work: not sure window is technically the root.
Nov 10 19:43:37 <CTLAdvance> Whats the question
Nov 10 19:44:22 <Rick-work> well  numFrogs=44; Mojo.Log.error(window["numFrogs"])  returns undefined.
Nov 10 19:44:55 <Rick-work> how do I find the parent object of an object?
Nov 10 19:45:23 <CTLAdvance> what is numFrogs? a variable? an html element?
Nov 10 19:45:29 <Rick-work> a variable
Nov 10 19:45:36 <atlanta_> just do it by the variable
Nov 10 19:45:43 <CTLAdvance> yeah
Nov 10 19:45:53 <CTLAdvance> have you tried just to ref numFrogs
Nov 10 19:45:58 <Rick-work> guys, will you take my word for it that I can't do that?
Nov 10 19:46:04 <atlanta_> why not
Nov 10 19:46:05 <atlanta_> explain
Nov 10 19:46:08 <Rick-work> I --know how to reference a variable--
Nov 10 19:46:14 <atlanta_> different scenes?
Nov 10 19:46:18 <CTLAdvance> otherwise try making it a global variable via app assistant
Nov 10 19:46:19 <Rick-work> I was afraid you were going to ask that.
Nov 10 19:46:31 <atlanta_> Rick-work: lol
Nov 10 19:46:34 <atlanta_> yes?
Nov 10 19:46:40 <Rick-work> We are writing an on-the-pre database program
Nov 10 19:46:49 <Rick-work> The end user can define a table
Nov 10 19:46:57 <Rick-work> he can name the columns
Nov 10 19:46:58 <atlanta_> gotcha
Nov 10 19:47:07 <Rick-work> he can then store stuff in them.
Nov 10 19:47:17 <_droO> can i connect to a mysql db & copy?
Nov 10 19:47:17 <_droO> ;o
Nov 10 19:47:19 <atlanta_> then maybe make it global in app-assist like CTLAdvance ask
Nov 10 19:47:29 <CTLAdvance> So is numFrogs a javascript variable or are you doing something else
Nov 10 19:47:31 <atlanta_> _droO: from the pre
Nov 10 19:47:38 <atlanta_> ?
Nov 10 19:47:39 <_droO> i know
Nov 10 19:47:40 <_droO> yes
Nov 10 19:47:43 <Rick-work> We then, are storing the column names for the columns in your table in a table of the meta data.
Nov 10 19:47:58 <_droO> kinda like mysqladmin for palmos
Nov 10 19:48:07 <CTLAdvance> yeah I would make it global
Nov 10 19:48:12 <Rick-work> so,  there is a table called "tables" and a table called "columns" which links to tables.
Nov 10 19:48:20 <CTLAdvance> ok rick hold on
Nov 10 19:48:43 <CTLAdvance> is your variable something that is part of the table or an actual js variable
Nov 10 19:49:45 <Rick-work> CTLAdvance  we are writing a report writer, which produces nicely formatted html tables with header and footer lines
Nov 10 19:49:48 <Rick-work> and totals and such
Nov 10 19:49:52 <Rick-work> from your data
Nov 10 19:50:05 <Rick-work> into a mojo scene which you can then email to yourself or others.
Nov 10 19:50:12 <Rick-work> an on-the-phone report writer.
Nov 10 19:50:15 <Rick-work> ok?
Nov 10 19:50:21 <atlanta_> gotcha
Nov 10 19:50:36 <CTLAdvance> ok but this numFrogs is it an actual var declared in the assistant js file either for the scene assistant or the app assistant?
Nov 10 19:50:45 <atlanta_> _droO: nope
Nov 10 19:50:51 <CTLAdvance> I understand what youare making
Nov 10 19:50:53 <_droO> nope what?
Nov 10 19:50:54 <atlanta_> _droO: you can ssh into a server
Nov 10 19:51:01 <Rick-work> CTLAdvance  I was trying to massively simplify our situation
Nov 10 19:51:22 <CTLAdvance> :-) so did you make it into a class
Nov 10 19:51:38 <_droO> you could, yes :\ but would be a nice feature :)
Nov 10 19:51:38 <Rick-work> when I am creating a total,  I have a meta-data variable  "Column6Name"  which contains the name of the column.
Nov 10 19:51:52 <CTLAdvance> hmm
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Nov 10 19:53:47 2009
Nov 10 19:54:14 <Rick-work> When we were debugging this in firefox before we moved to the pre  -- if we had the string variable column6 = "numFrogs"
Nov 10 19:54:39 <Rick-work> then we could refer to window[column6]   and it would return the value of numFrogs
Nov 10 19:55:03 <Templarian> Rick-work: top[column6] ?
Nov 10 19:55:09 <Rick-work> we could get the value of an object by calling the object using its name contained in a string
Nov 10 19:55:19 <Rick-work> THIS IS A VERY USEFUL TRICK and we do it all the time
Nov 10 19:55:28 <Rick-work> using window[] or document[]
Nov 10 19:55:34 <Rick-work> it's a way to avoid eval()
Nov 10 19:55:51 <CTLAdvance> have you tried getElementById?
Nov 10 19:55:52 <Rick-work> but neither window[]  or document[]  are working on the Pre.
Nov 10 19:56:10 <Templarian> Rick-work: try "top"?
Nov 10 19:56:12 <Rick-work> CTLAdvance  it's not an element.  It's a variable. It's not part of the DOM
Nov 10 19:56:21 <CTLAdvance> ah right
Nov 10 19:56:23 <Rick-work> Templarian  I'll try that, gimme a minute.
Nov 10 19:58:00 <atlanta_> try document.variable
Nov 10 19:58:07 <atlanta_> or top
Nov 10 19:58:12 <lyht> What is the problem with eval?
Nov 10 19:58:26 <Templarian> atlanta_: those were already said.
Nov 10 19:58:46 <Templarian> lyht: nothing it just should never be used if it doesn't have to be.
Nov 10 19:58:49 <CTLAdvance> if that doesnt work I wonder if the issue is with how the applications are managed on the pre
Nov 10 19:59:20 <atlanta_> opps
Nov 10 19:59:21 <Rick-work> Templarian  BINGO...   top worked.
Nov 10 19:59:26 <CTLAdvance> nice
Nov 10 19:59:34 <Rick-work> lyht  I --hate-- eval
Nov 10 19:59:44 <atlanta_> yea i dont think the apps are handled in windows form
Nov 10 19:59:47 <Rick-work> there are two HUGE problems with it.
Nov 10 20:00:04 <Rick-work> 1) it's difficult if not impossible to debug.
Nov 10 20:00:30 <Rick-work> 2) it slows execution since every time it's hit, it has to be compiled, instead of being compiled and optimized up front.
Nov 10 20:00:40 <Rick-work> Deep in a loop, that's a huge problem.
Nov 10 20:00:45 <nonpolar> Good evening guys! :)
Nov 10 20:01:17 <Rick-work> and deep deep in a report writer, you're WAY down in the bottom of loops.  Trust me on this.  Eval slows the app down by almost a factor of 2.
Nov 10 20:01:30 <atlanta_> yea eval = evil
Nov 10 20:02:02 <CTLAdvance> If you can avoid any extra function calls you should, with any large scale webapp
Nov 10 20:03:23 <Templarian> I'm still coding up my framework, but it's a lot more passive on resources than their system.
Nov 10 20:03:59 <atlanta_> Rick-work: you using sqllite
Nov 10 20:03:59 <atlanta_> ?
Nov 10 20:04:05 <Rick-work> atlanta yes
Nov 10 20:05:02 <Rick-work> this is a -- very -- complex app.
Nov 10 20:05:09 <_droO> i dont even think you need to use top honestly
Nov 10 20:05:30 <Rick-work> _droO   huh????
Nov 10 20:05:36 <_droO> can i see that part
Nov 10 20:06:43 <Rick-work> _droO  --  it would mean pulling hunks out of three or four js files.
Nov 10 20:07:14 <_droO> i just meant like the 3-4 lines that u were having probs w/ just now
Nov 10 20:07:18 <_droO> & you said top worked
Nov 10 20:07:22 <Rick-work> We have a way to avoid it, using arrays,  and we may do that,  but really, accessing a variable by the name of the variable is something we do a lot.
Nov 10 20:08:11 <_droO> i just think theres possibly an even easier way, without array or top or eval
Nov 10 20:08:17 <_droO> n i just wanted to see those few lines
Nov 10 20:08:33 <Rick-work> _droO  --  we frequently do   this.something = "blahblah"  and then based  on a choice from a combobox need to get the value of this["something"]
Nov 10 20:08:44 <Rick-work> _droO  ok,  there's two lines that matter.
Nov 10 20:08:53 <Rick-work> with a handwave between
Nov 10 20:09:22 <Rick-work> in one js somewhere,  I have a set of variables,  one of which is  peopleTot
Nov 10 20:09:52 <Rick-work> so, there'sa line  peopleTot = peopleTot +rows[i][3];
Nov 10 20:10:09 <_droO> ok
Nov 10 20:10:22 <_droO> and u want peopleTot to be a string?
Nov 10 20:10:37 <Rick-work> in another js file somewhere else, that is the controller for the scene, there is a combox box that says "which total do you want to see?   and it has a list of totals one of which is peopleTot
Nov 10 20:10:39 <_droO> or is it a string?
Nov 10 20:10:48 <Rick-work> so I have a variable whichTot = "peopleTot"
Nov 10 20:11:06 <Rick-work> now,  based on whichTot,  give me the value of peopleTot
Nov 10 20:11:31 <CTLAdvance> so areyou saying top.whichTot?
Nov 10 20:11:31 <haeffb-wIRC> 17
Nov 10 20:11:47 <Rick-work> top[whichTot]  --- works perfectly.
Nov 10 20:12:06 <CTLAdvance> I understand you are pulling up the variable by a string identifier
Nov 10 20:12:19 <Rick-work> yep
Nov 10 20:12:32 <Rick-work> but _droO  thought he had another way.
Nov 10 20:12:48 <CTLAdvance> and top gives you the parent element of what scene your in, however it must not be window
Nov 10 20:12:51 <CTLAdvance> interesting
Nov 10 20:12:53 <_droO> and still do, but your example is a bit vauge ;o
Nov 10 20:13:03 <Rick-work> Mojo isn't using window.There'snobrowser
Nov 10 20:13:07 <Rick-work> or document
Nov 10 20:13:15 <_droO> like where is peopleTot
Nov 10 20:13:16 <Rick-work> which is what I had always usedbefore
Nov 10 20:13:19 <_droO> and where is whichTot
Nov 10 20:13:27 <_droO> is peopleTot a string or array or?
Nov 10 20:13:36 <Rick-work> peopletot is a number
Nov 10 20:13:45 <Rick-work> whichtot is a string which contains the string peopletot
Nov 10 20:13:54 <CTLAdvance> dro0 he is using a dropdown that has a value=some string
Nov 10 20:14:00 <Rick-work> given whichtot, give me the value of peopletot.
Nov 10 20:14:06 <CTLAdvance> then he is pulling the value of top[somestring]
Nov 10 20:14:16 <Rick-work> nodnod
Nov 10 20:14:20 <Rick-work> I do this a lot.
Nov 10 20:14:28 <Rick-work> You've never written code like that?
Nov 10 20:14:29 <Rick-work> weird.
Nov 10 20:14:36 <CTLAdvance> question
Nov 10 20:14:40 <Rick-work> sure
Nov 10 20:14:45 <CTLAdvance> how are you declaring peopleTot?
Nov 10 20:14:49 <CTLAdvance> just a var statement?
Nov 10 20:14:54 <Rick-work> yep
Nov 10 20:14:58 <CTLAdvance> nice
Nov 10 20:15:14 <sugardave> seriously, my app updates would take about 5 minutes to clear/approve....no apps again today?
Nov 10 20:15:33 <_droO> you're saying "give me this value" etc, but i still need to see the exact context :/
Nov 10 20:15:41 <Rick-work> and yes,  I could put it in a namespace, as a property of a totalling object  and then I could refer to totals[whichtot]
Nov 10 20:15:43 <_droO> its cool, use top if you want
Nov 10 20:15:45 <_droO> :)
Nov 10 20:15:49 <Rick-work> which is what we USUALLY do....
Nov 10 20:16:04 <Rick-work> but occasinally,  some variables need to be global.
Nov 10 20:16:24 <Rick-work> in which case,  now I know.   Use top
Nov 10 20:18:23 <Rick-work> _droO I would do that, (show you the context)  but really, to understand why I'm trying to do this without the hand waving is a few hundred lines of js, unless I spend a lot of time pulling out bits of code.
Nov 10 20:18:44 <_droO> well if you need to convert object/array to string
Nov 10 20:18:47 <_droO> u dont need top
Nov 10 20:19:11 <Rick-work> no _droO  I'm not converting an object to a string.  :-(
Nov 10 20:19:18 <Rick-work> I know how to do _that_
Nov 10 20:19:22 <_droO> lol
Nov 10 20:19:36 <CTLAdvance> he is ref an object using a string
Nov 10 20:20:04 <CTLAdvance> which is why he needs top as I assume the variable is in another js file
Nov 10 20:20:10 <lyht> _droO, it is not about converting, it is about accessing a variable at runtime you dont have the name of when coding. dynamic variables.
Nov 10 20:20:14 <Rick-work> given the name of an object in a string,  give me the VALUE of the object which is the object who's name is the name held in the string we startedwith.
Nov 10 20:20:32 <sugardave> damn, I missed my chance to be a hero
Nov 10 20:20:34 <CTLAdvance> lol
Nov 10 20:20:40 <_droO> oh, ok
Nov 10 20:20:40 <CTLAdvance> oy
Nov 10 20:20:46 <sugardave> but I didn't know about 'top' anyway, so that's cool :D
Nov 10 20:20:49 <_droO> i guess i missed some at the beginning ;p
Nov 10 20:20:53 <Rick-work> sugardave  yep.  Templarian did it.
Nov 10 20:21:03 <lyht> sugardave, I didn
Nov 10 20:21:07 <lyht> 't either.
Nov 10 20:21:11 <lyht> top's cool.
Nov 10 20:21:17 <sugardave> yes, will remember that
Nov 10 20:21:23 <Rick-work> This comes close to being the oddest javascript methods conversation we've had in a while.
Nov 10 20:21:49 <lyht> no doubt
Nov 10 20:21:56 <CTLAdvance> I havent had to use dynamic variables in a while
Nov 10 20:22:00 <CTLAdvance> so yeah
Nov 10 20:22:05 <Rick-work> and moreinteresting than "what is bind?"
Nov 10 20:22:20 <sugardave> haha
Nov 10 20:22:53 <sugardave> I think I solved my Admob fill rate problem...I think there might be a bug in Ajax.Request
Nov 10 20:22:57 <Rick-work> CTLAdvance I would not HAVE to use dynamic variables,  but in a dynamically typed language,  I sometimes LIKE to use them, it simplifies the code.
Nov 10 20:23:12 <sugardave> or, I am just unclear on how to use Ajax properly
Nov 10 20:23:29 <Rick-work> sugardave  is it even POSSIBLE  to run admob in an immersive app on a pixi?
Nov 10 20:23:39 <Rick-work> The more I work on  pixi's the smaller the screen feels.
Nov 10 20:23:48 <sugardave> not sure about Pixi, but my banner height is only 52 px tall
Nov 10 20:23:55 <sugardave> so, it will work
Nov 10 20:24:18 <sugardave> I only display it for about 8 seconds, then hide
Nov 10 20:24:27 <CTLAdvance> sugardave - did you have to make a cobjob using an iphone/android admob ad gen
Nov 10 20:24:28 <Rick-work> k
Nov 10 20:24:37 <lyht> so, I dont think I can use top here, but is there a better way?: eval("this." + parameter + " = newValue;");
Nov 10 20:24:51 <Rick-work> yes
Nov 10 20:24:52 <sugardave> CTLAdvance: nah, I just used their wiki to build an Ajax request with the required parameters
Nov 10 20:24:56 <Rick-work> there  is a better way
Nov 10 20:25:18 <sugardave> lyht: 'this[parameterVar] = newValue;'
Nov 10 20:25:21 <Rick-work> lyht   this[parameter] = newValue;
Nov 10 20:25:33 <sugardave> haha
Nov 10 20:25:35 <lyht> ah. right,
Nov 10 20:25:38 <lyht> course
Nov 10 20:25:41 <Rick-work> assuming parameter is a string which contains the nameof the parameter to be updated
Nov 10 20:25:52 <CTLAdvance> sugardave but in your market place what are u using, a mobile web, iphone, or android
Nov 10 20:25:59 <sugardave> oh, mobile web
Nov 10 20:26:09 <CTLAdvance> we went with android as we just used the id's they gave us
Nov 10 20:26:31 <sugardave> yeah, there's some "script" floating around I hear...it's based on the Android SDK
Nov 10 20:26:47 <sugardave> I did cheat and use one of the Android headers to get the icon to show
Nov 10 20:26:57 <sugardave> which I can't do with Quattro yet
Nov 10 20:27:27 <sugardave> but, I found something interesting last night (long story to follow)":
Nov 10 20:27:44 <CTLAdvance> hmm - are you filling your ad rate 100% of the time, ours is around 60 - 70
Nov 10 20:27:53 <CTLAdvance> go on
Nov 10 20:28:34 <sugardave> so, I use setInterval to call my ad download function about every 45 seconds.  I was getting HORRIBLE fill rates from admob, dropping down to less than 30% and I noticed I wasn't getting ads for HUGE stretches at a time on my emulator and my phone
Nov 10 20:28:58 <CTLAdvance> yeah
Nov 10 20:29:19 <sugardave> I started looking into Ajax.Responders and set up an anon one to just print out 'ajax started', 'ajax completed' for 'onCreate' and 'onComplete'
Nov 10 20:29:49 <CTLAdvance> ok
Nov 10 20:30:07 <sugardave> turns out that each time I called my function, it was geometrically increasing the actual number of Ajax requests that got sent...time 1 was 1 request, time 2 was 2, etc.
Nov 10 20:30:12 <nonpolar> Is WebOS already capable of showing the traffic which went over my internet connection?
Nov 10 20:30:20 <sugardave> so, I figured that's why Admob was cutting me off and my fill rate was crap
Nov 10 20:30:47 <CTLAdvance> hmm thats interesting
Nov 10 20:30:55 <sugardave> I think I was right...so, I now register a responder at the start of my function and in 'onComplete' I unregister it from the responder
Nov 10 20:31:22 <sugardave> and my fill rate, while still shitty, is definitely better (I think it's because not all users have upgraded to the new version)
Nov 10 20:31:38 <sugardave> and I'm not seeing the huge stretches of no ads from the server
Nov 10 20:32:13 <CTLAdvance> hmm ok ill have to look at my ajax functions
Nov 10 20:32:35 <sugardave> yeah, hang on and I'll paste something easy you can drop in to see if you're getting the same kind of thing
Nov 10 20:38:05 <rob___> Hey guys...is there a way to keep the screen from scrolling vertically?
Nov 10 20:38:07 <sugardave> CTLAdvance: http://webos.pastebin.com/d6febc20b
Nov 10 20:38:23 <sugardave> CTLAdvance: drop that in just before your ajax request is set up and see what happens in yor output logs
Nov 10 20:38:41 <sugardave> I'll be interested to know if you see the same thing I saw
Nov 10 20:39:11 <sugardave> rob___: yeah, there should be options to pass to the sceneScroller that controls which directions it can scroll
Nov 10 20:39:32 <CTLAdvance> ok one second
Nov 10 20:39:41 <rob___> thanks...I'll look for that now.
Nov 10 20:40:35 <sugardave> rob___: do you want it to scroll horizontally or just to eliminate scroll altogether?
Nov 10 20:40:48 <rob___> I'd like to eliminate it altogether for this app.
Nov 10 20:40:53 <sugardave> oh, that's easy
Nov 10 20:41:10 <sugardave> blah.pushScene('name', {'disableSceneScroller': true});
Nov 10 20:41:15 <rob___> Cool.
Nov 10 20:41:17 <rob___> Thanks.
Nov 10 20:41:19 <sugardave> np
Nov 10 20:46:04 <rob___> Odd...I added the disableSceneScroller line into my stage (which pushes my only scene) and it still scrolls vertically.  Seems pretty simple...not sure how I screwed it up:  this.controller.pushScene("main",{'disableSceneScroller': true});
Nov 10 20:46:22 <sugardave> rob___: I might have mis-typed let me find some code
Nov 10 20:46:41 <rob___> I looked at the variable in the docs thinking the same thing...looks like at least the var name is right.
Nov 10 20:46:51 <rob___> I'm not 100% sure of the right syntax for that though...
Nov 10 20:47:43 <CTLAdvance> my fill rate is only showing about 25%
Nov 10 20:48:13 <sugardave> CTLAdvance: yeah, mine's holding around 40% today after I made my change...do you see geometrically increasing responses from that output code?
Nov 10 20:48:45 <CTLAdvance> no not so much
Nov 10 20:49:15 <sugardave> weird...I wonder why I was getting them...are you using setInterval to run your request code?
Nov 10 20:50:06 <sugardave> rob___: oops, you have to do it like this:  pushScene({'name': 'sceneName', 'disableSceneScoller': true});
Nov 10 20:50:31 <sugardave> Scroller, though
Nov 10 20:50:36 <rob___> Awesome...I just found the same thing.  Working for me now!          this.controller.pushScene({name: 'main', 'disableSceneScroller': true});
Nov 10 20:50:41 <rob___> Thanks sd
Nov 10 20:50:45 <sugardave> np
Nov 10 20:51:26 <CTLAdvance> no I was just adding that now
Nov 10 20:51:33 <sugardave> ah, yeah
Nov 10 20:51:51 <sugardave> it only seems to happen when I'm repeating in code
Nov 10 20:51:57 <sugardave> it's really strange
Nov 10 20:59:21 <nonpolar> How can I call a SOAP based Web Service by his WSDL? I.e. how to "create" a client and call a operation?
Nov 10 21:00:11 <sugardave> nonpolar: I was kind of looking at that stuff early on, but don't have a clue, really, but you start by building an Ajax.Request
Nov 10 21:00:16 <sugardave> let me dig up some links
Nov 10 21:01:05 <nonpolar> sugardave: I found this: http://www.mathertel.de/AJAXEngine/#view=Home
Nov 10 21:01:25 <nonpolar> sugardave: But I thought this is maybe built-in in prototype or stuff...
Nov 10 21:06:12 <sugardave> here is an IBM devworks article on using XmlHttpRequest against Googles' search web service....it's old, but the concepts should still be valid
Nov 10 21:06:17 <sugardave> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/web/library/wa-ajaxintro9/index.html
Nov 10 21:07:02 <sugardave> nonpolar: step back a second....what is it that you want to do?
Nov 10 21:07:30 <CTLAdvance> sugardave the way I have my setInterval setup I dont notice it calling the function more than once
Nov 10 21:08:18 <nonpolar> sugardave: I want to call a Web Service operation which is defined in a WSDL.
Nov 10 21:08:25 <CTLAdvance> do you pass a ad filter string by any chance via the postdata url
Nov 10 21:08:36 <sugardave> CTLAdvance: it never called my function more than once, but the 'onCreate' of that responder would get called multiple times
Nov 10 21:08:48 <CTLAdvance> hmm
Nov 10 21:09:19 <sugardave> CTLAdvance: and I don't use postdata, I just use a parameters object....yeah, it's weird
Nov 10 21:09:30 <sugardave> nonpolar: is this a service you created or an existing?
Nov 10 21:09:46 <nonpolar> sugardave: It is an existing service
Nov 10 21:10:00 <nonpolar> sugardave: Currently I am looking at WS.JS
Nov 10 21:14:17 <sugardave> nonpolar: alright, that's beyond my ability to speak knowledgeably, but I found this http://www.codeproject.com/KB/ajax/JavaScriptSOAPClient.aspx
Nov 10 21:16:56 <nonpolar> sugardave: alright, thanks for your remarks... seems I have to dig a bit deeper
Nov 10 21:18:43 <nonpolar> sugardave: one last question: Do you know what is the preferred way to include a JS lib to a webOS app?
Nov 10 21:19:20 <sugardave> nonpolar: depends on the app, but you have a couple options
Nov 10 21:19:34 <sugardave> 1> Include it in the apps main HTML file, usually index.html
Nov 10 21:20:09 <sugardave> 2> Include it in the 'sources.json' file
Nov 10 21:20:16 <sugardave> I usually do #2
Nov 10 21:20:42 <sugardave> that's for local only
Nov 10 21:21:01 <sugardave> I haven't tried to do remote js, but I assume you could just put in the HTML as per normal
Nov 10 21:21:08 <nonpolar> sugardave: what do you mean by for local?
Nov 10 21:21:16 <nonpolar> sugardave: okay, i got it :)
Nov 10 21:21:19 <sugardave> like if you have your own .js file
Nov 10 21:21:21 <sugardave> ah
Nov 10 21:21:22 <sugardave> cool
Nov 10 21:21:57 <nonpolar> sugardave: thank you... I will continue tomorrow :D If you are interested, I will get back to you and show you my findings
Nov 10 21:22:19 <sugardave> right on, good luck....definitely interested if you get working with WSDL...put it on the webos101 wiki
Nov 10 21:22:41 <nonpolar> okeydokey :D
Nov 10 21:22:47 <nonpolar> Good night! ;)
Nov 10 21:22:57 <sugardave> night
Nov 10 21:25:19 <CTLAdvance> sugardave - my metrics just updated and I am about 86% fill rate
Nov 10 21:25:49 <CTLAdvance> let me watch this for a while and see what happens
Nov 10 21:26:20 <CTLAdvance> however it is giving me the same 3 or 4 ad's
Nov 10 21:26:50 <hertzi_wirc> hi guys
Nov 10 21:33:50 <sugardave> CTLAdvance: I think getting the same ad is normal/fine, it's when they stop coming altogether
Nov 10 21:34:10 <sugardave> so, how are you refreshing your ads?
Nov 10 21:34:34 <CTLAdvance> xtimer = window.setInterval("loadAd()",5000);	
Nov 10 21:35:03 <keiki_> is this the right place to ask questions about mobile safari? and using the geolocation API in general.
Nov 10 21:35:08 <sugardave> and loadAd handles the Ajax request?
Nov 10 21:35:28 <sugardave> keiki_: probably not
Nov 10 21:35:35 <keiki_> sugardave: any suggestions for a better channel?
Nov 10 21:35:37 <sugardave> but somebody might know
Nov 10 21:35:42 <sugardave> keiki_: no, sorry :(
Nov 10 21:35:50 <keiki_> well. thanks anyway. :)
Nov 10 21:35:51 <pYr0x> load mojo an additional css File for each secne?
Nov 10 21:35:58 <pYr0x> scene
Nov 10 21:36:17 <CTLAdvance> yeah loadAd calls the ajax request
Nov 10 21:36:20 <sugardave> pYr0x: copy it to the stylesheets dir and put it in the main HTML file
Nov 10 21:36:48 <pYr0x> no way to load the css file on the scene?
Nov 10 21:37:00 <sugardave> CTLAdvance: that's really weird...the only difference is I don't put a timer on window, I just straight up do 'setInterval(myfunc.bind(this), 52000);'
Nov 10 21:37:02 <pYr0x> to avoid data trash?
Nov 10 21:37:17 <CTLAdvance> hmm
Nov 10 21:37:34 <sugardave> no wait
Nov 10 21:37:49 <sugardave> CTLAdvance: that's really weird...the only difference is I don't put a timer on window, I just straight up do 'var timerId = setInterval(myfunc.bind(this), 52000);'
Nov 10 21:37:55 <sugardave> so I can kill it on deactivate
Nov 10 21:38:44 <sugardave> pYr0x: I don't understand, if you are including the css for a scene, where is it coming from that it wouldn't otherwise if you were putting it in its own file in the stylesheets directory?
Nov 10 21:39:29 <pYr0x> i would load the css file for one scene
Nov 10 21:39:39 <pYr0x> not for the hole stage
Nov 10 21:39:41 <sugardave> yes, from where?
Nov 10 21:39:45 <pYr0x> css file
Nov 10 21:39:52 <pYr0x> in stylesheet folder
Nov 10 21:40:01 <pYr0x> for example
Nov 10 21:40:10 <sugardave> oh
Nov 10 21:40:11 <sugardave> I get it
Nov 10 21:40:14 <pYr0x> i have the "ajax-scene.js"
Nov 10 21:40:29 <sugardave> you want to replace the regular one with your own on a scene-by-scene bassis
Nov 10 21:40:36 <sugardave> not sure if you can do that
Nov 10 21:40:55 <pYr0x> and now i want to load the "ajax-scene.css"
Nov 10 21:43:52 <CTLAdvance> sugardave - it seems that you are some how getting multiple calls on an interval
Nov 10 21:44:12 <sugardave> I know, but you put a debug string in the function it calls and it only happens once
Nov 10 21:44:33 <CTLAdvance> hmm
Nov 10 21:44:44 <sugardave> once I did that responder trick and saw it, I make an actual responder object, assign it to a var, and unregister it in 'onComplete'...stops the multiple ajax requests
Nov 10 21:45:23 <lyht> pYr0x, I wonder if you could use @import
Nov 10 21:45:57 <CTLAdvance> sugardave do you call a service request to get connection every interval
Nov 10 21:46:02 <lyht> in the view template html
Nov 10 21:46:11 <pYr0x> @import includes the css file... without an IF
Nov 10 21:46:37 <lyht> yah, but if you put an @import inside ajax-scene.html
Nov 10 21:46:47 <lyht> it would only be imported when that scene was loaded.
Nov 10 21:46:50 <sugardave> CTLAdvance: yes
Nov 10 21:47:14 <pYr0x> yeahh... but css inside html is bad....
Nov 10 21:47:43 <lyht> technially, you are only using css to load the css file... :)
Nov 10 21:47:43 <CTLAdvance> that is deffinately different than me, I only call it once
Nov 10 21:47:56 <pYr0x> :)
Nov 10 21:47:58 <sugardave> wait wait
Nov 10 21:47:59 <sugardave> no
Nov 10 21:48:29 <sugardave> in my downloadAd function is where I build my Ajax.Request and send it off
Nov 10 21:48:37 <CTLAdvance> ok
Nov 10 21:48:41 <sugardave> so it makes a new object every interval
Nov 10 21:48:45 <sugardave> is that what you meant?
Nov 10 21:48:59 <sugardave> new object/same var
Nov 10 21:49:19 <CTLAdvance> are you calling this anywhere? this.controller.serviceRequest('palm://com.palm.connectionmanager',
Nov 10 21:49:31 <sugardave> CTLAdvance: I'm still pretty new to JS, so sometimes I might say shit that's a little odd sounding
Nov 10 21:49:42 <sugardave> um, I think so one time to try and get the wan IP
Nov 10 21:49:54 <CTLAdvance> ah ok then its the same
Nov 10 21:50:24 <CTLAdvance> one last question what kind of content are you seeing for ad;s
Nov 10 21:51:23 <sugardave> a lot of religion, degrees, dish tv, free apps-wallpapers-tones....every once in a while a Verizon 3G Touch or something
Nov 10 21:53:04 <sugardave> CTLAdvance: I'm also running my other network tests on my phone and emulator atm so I can't say what I'm getting right now
Nov 10 21:53:28 <cacasodo> does that dashboard area only support icons, or could i put text down there too?
Nov 10 21:53:37 <sugardave> oh shit, I may also have a different version of the emulator than you, but my theory seems to be holding true as my fill rate is slowly climbing instead of falling off the cliff
Nov 10 21:53:45 <lyht> cacasodo,  text too
Nov 10 21:53:46 <sugardave> cacasodo: I think it does text, too
Nov 10 21:53:58 <cacasodo> nice
Nov 10 21:54:06 <lyht> but that goes away
Nov 10 21:54:11 <lyht> and leaves your icon
Nov 10 21:54:17 <cacasodo> grrr
Nov 10 21:54:25 <cacasodo> thats useless then
Nov 10 21:54:29 <sugardave> can you set the icon width?
Nov 10 21:54:32 <sugardave> text as icon!
Nov 10 21:54:42 <lyht> hahaha
Nov 10 21:55:00 <lyht> I think it is limited to the standard icon size
Nov 10 21:55:12 <sugardave> "is there a patch for that?"
Nov 10 21:56:12 <cacasodo> sugardave: i dont want wIRC to have to reply on a patch
Nov 10 21:56:24 <cacasodo> just trying to figure out a good place to stick a lag meter
Nov 10 21:57:08 <sugardave> ah, I see
Nov 10 21:57:12 <cacasodo> someone needs to make a patch that lets you put stuff where the clock is.... like cycle though time/date/etc.
Nov 10 21:57:17 <cacasodo> and make a hook for it
Nov 10 21:57:23 <cacasodo> so arbitrary apps could add stuff to show there
Nov 10 21:57:24 <sugardave> that would be cool
Nov 10 21:57:29 <sugardave> screen saver apps
Nov 10 21:57:33 <sugardave> etc
Nov 10 21:58:08 <lyht> cacasodo, you could take over the whole screen... but that might be avoiding the point.
Nov 10 21:58:31 <cacasodo> lyht: yeah we sorta use the dashboard
Nov 10 21:58:56 <cacasodo> if there was a alternate fullscreen that hid the clock area and left the dashboard that would be cool
Nov 10 21:59:07 <lyht> yah
Nov 10 21:59:24 <lyht> you could making your own dashboard like thingie
Nov 10 21:59:38 <cacasodo> yeah i've brought that up
Nov 10 21:59:51 <cacasodo> didnt hear anyone volunteer to code that ;)
Nov 10 22:00:02 <lyht> haha
Nov 10 22:00:09 <CTLAdvance> sugardave - changed how I was tracking the intervals and requests - its making an exponentially increasing amount of calls as the app runs
Nov 10 22:00:27 <CTLAdvance> so I was wrong
Nov 10 22:00:59 <sugardave> CTLAdvance: that's even worse....so here's what you need to do, pastebin in a moment
Nov 10 22:02:07 <CTLAdvance> yeah it was doing 1, then 3, 6, 10, 15
Nov 10 22:02:14 <sugardave> http://webos.pastebin.com/d753e2da2
Nov 10 22:02:20 <CTLAdvance> itsadding a request to the total number of requests each time
Nov 10 22:02:21 <sugardave> just before your Ajax request
Nov 10 22:02:25 <sugardave> yes
Nov 10 22:02:28 <sugardave> it's weird as shit
Nov 10 22:02:31 <sugardave> I had no idea
Nov 10 22:02:43 <sugardave> because my 'onSuccess' of the request itself only returns once
Nov 10 22:04:03 <pYr0x> why won't work??? i despair..
Nov 10 22:04:09 <pYr0x> this.controller.listen(this.controller.get("examples"), Mojo.Event.listTap, this.replyEntry);
Nov 10 22:04:27 <lyht> ..., this.replyEntry.bind(this));
Nov 10 22:04:30 <pYr0x> and the replyEntry function
Nov 10 22:04:32 <pYr0x> this.controller.swapScene("reply")
Nov 10 22:05:09 <sugardave> Mojo.Event.listen(this.controller.get('examples'), Mojo.Event.listTap, this.replyEntry.bindAsEventListener(this));
Nov 10 22:05:09 <pYr0x> lyht.. but i want only to swap scene
Nov 10 22:05:27 <sugardave> perhaps?
Nov 10 22:05:41 <haeffb> this.controller.listen doesn't need this.controller.get.
Nov 10 22:05:49 <sugardave> ah
Nov 10 22:05:50 <sugardave> right
Nov 10 22:05:53 <sugardave> just the name
Nov 10 22:06:06 <lyht> either works
Nov 10 22:06:29 <haeffb> ah, ok
Nov 10 22:06:39 <lyht> pYr0x, I think you have to bind the function call...
Nov 10 22:06:46 <sugardave> you do
Nov 10 22:06:54 <pYr0x> this.controller.listen(examples, Mojo.Event.listTap, this.replyEntry); wont work too
Nov 10 22:07:12 <sugardave> pyrox, this.replyEntry.bindAsEventListner(this)
Nov 10 22:07:13 <lyht> so rather than just this.replyEntry
Nov 10 22:07:20 <haeffb> 'examples'
Nov 10 22:07:38 <lyht> and if you are not going to use controller.get, it must be the name as a string.
Nov 10 22:07:39 <pYr0x> haeffb: i have the quots.. :)
Nov 10 22:07:42 <pYr0x> but wont work
Nov 10 22:08:11 <sugardave> pYr0x: ^^^^^
Nov 10 22:08:12 <lyht> this.controller.listen("examples", Mojo.Event.listTap, this.replyEntry.bind(this));
Nov 10 22:08:15 <haeffb> what part is not working?
Nov 10 22:08:20 <sugardave> not bind
Nov 10 22:08:24 <sugardave> bindAsEventListener
Nov 10 22:08:56 <lyht> sugardave, are there situations where bind alone wont work?
Nov 10 22:09:00 <pYr0x> this.controller.listen("examples", Mojo.Event.listTap, this.replyEntry.bindAsEventListner(this)); ??
Nov 10 22:09:04 <lyht> yes
Nov 10 22:09:22 <sugardave> lyht: not sure, but I always use that when I'm handling listen events
Nov 10 22:09:29 <lyht> I haven
Nov 10 22:09:30 <sugardave> and it always seems to work
Nov 10 22:09:32 <lyht> 't yet
Nov 10 22:09:33 <sugardave> ah
Nov 10 22:09:34 <pYr0x> duds... somethink wrong...
Nov 10 22:09:38 <lyht> and it also seems to work, :)
Nov 10 22:09:41 <pYr0x> this.controller.listen("examples", Mojo.Event.listTap, this.replyEntry.bindAsEventListner(this)); doesnt work
Nov 10 22:09:55 <lyht> and examples is a list?
Nov 10 22:09:59 <sugardave> where are you calling it?
Nov 10 22:10:13 <lyht> check if you are getting into replayEntry. Put a log in there.
Nov 10 22:10:16 <pYr0x> ..... this.controller.setupWidget("examples", ......
Nov 10 22:10:30 <pYr0x> AjaxAssistant.prototype.replyEntry = function(event) {
Nov 10 22:10:31 <pYr0x> 	this.controller.swapScene("reply");
Nov 10 22:10:33 <pYr0x> }
Nov 10 22:10:44 <sugardave> pYr0x: pastebin your code....webos.pastebin.org
Nov 10 22:10:54 <pYr0x> ok
Nov 10 22:12:42 <pYr0x> http://nopaste.php-quake.net/259723
Nov 10 22:13:12 <CTLAdvance> sugardave - I had to modify it a bit, but it is working properly now. only one request at a time
Nov 10 22:13:25 <CTLAdvance> however looks like its blocking me still as I am not getting any ad;s
Nov 10 22:14:48 <sugardave> CTLAdvance: you may have to wait until tomorrow
Nov 10 22:14:56 <CTLAdvance> going to sleep my device a few mins and see if that fixes the admob issue
Nov 10 22:14:57 <CTLAdvance> yeah
Nov 10 22:14:59 <sugardave> I think they flush the "too many ads" counter every 24 hours
Nov 10 22:15:29 <CTLAdvance> I let it go one time and it made over 400 requests in about 5 or so minutes
Nov 10 22:15:38 <lyht> pYr0x, I dont see anything obvious. Have you added your reply scene to the sources file? That is my most common mistake.
Nov 10 22:15:38 <sugardave> yeah, that's not good :D
Nov 10 22:15:45 <CTLAdvance> :D
Nov 10 22:16:10 <pYr0x> lyht: i worked with eclipse
Nov 10 22:16:21 <lyht> It should have done it automatically then.
Nov 10 22:16:41 <pYr0x> yes
Nov 10 22:16:44 <sugardave> pYr0x: you are using this.model and this.attributes for two different widgets?
Nov 10 22:16:46 <haeffb> pyrox: add a Mojo.Log.info to your replyEntry function to see if it's being called.
Nov 10 22:16:51 <lyht> Have you been using palm-log to see if there are any errors when you click on it?
Nov 10 22:17:17 <pYr0x> ok
Nov 10 22:17:51 <haeffb> and as sugardave points out - use a different model for the two widgets. (i.e. this.model2 = { ... }
Nov 10 22:21:46 <pYr0x> where can i find the mojo log?
Nov 10 22:22:08 <lyht> open a command window
Nov 10 22:22:16 <haeffb> search developer.palm.com for palm-log for instructions
Nov 10 22:22:36 <lyht> type palm-log com.blah.app.name -f
Nov 10 22:23:29 <lyht> if you use Mojo.Log.info, make sure you have a framework_config.json file in the root of your app, with { "logLevel": 99 }
Nov 10 22:25:07 <CTLAdvance> sugardave its working now
Nov 10 22:25:10 <CTLAdvance> thanksfor the help
Nov 10 22:26:02 <sugardave> CTLAdvance: np, I wonder if that is a bug or is working as designed
Nov 10 22:26:18 <CTLAdvance> I am not sure
Nov 10 22:26:33 <pYr0x> nice error .. :) error: Uncaught TypeError: Cannot call method 'swapScene' of undefined
Nov 10 22:27:22 <haeffb> means this.controller is undefined in your replyEntry function...
Nov 10 22:27:39 <haeffb> you need the stageController, not the sceneController
Nov 10 22:27:40 <pYr0x> hmm
Nov 10 22:27:44 <sugardave> this.controller.stageController.pushScene
Nov 10 22:27:49 <pYr0x> ;)
Nov 10 22:28:15 <lyht> yeah for palm-log!
Nov 10 22:28:36 <lyht> I keep it running cause it always tells me how dumb I am.
Nov 10 22:28:58 <pYr0x> lol
Nov 10 22:31:00 <CTLAdvance> Anyone know what the current lead time for app submission to acceptance is?
Nov 10 22:31:01 <pYr0x> this wont work.. for this function.. why?  AjaxAssistant.prototype.replyEntry it's prototyped...
Nov 10 22:31:15 <pYr0x> Mojo.Controller.stageController.pushScene("reply") will work
Nov 10 22:33:03 <sugardave> CTLAdvance: it's completely random
Nov 10 22:33:14 <sugardave> Mine was about 11 days
Nov 10 22:33:20 <lyht> CTLAdvance, I had a coupld of apps I submitted on the 3rd and 4th, and I got feedback on the 6th. But another one that sat in Queued for a week.
Nov 10 22:33:34 <sugardave> but my first update is getting on to 8 days so far....HINT ANY PALM APP REVIEW TEAM MEMBERS
Nov 10 22:34:00 <lyht> The two that got feedback are now stuck in Queued after I updated them.
Nov 10 22:34:50 <sugardave> my app REALLY needs its update to shine...my first attempt is definitely amateurish in the graphics department
Nov 10 22:34:54 <lyht> I was told they would try to push them through for the pixi, but I doubt they will make it now.
Nov 10 22:35:54 <CTLAdvance> Yeah we areworking to submit an update for our first app soon... was just wondering
Nov 10 22:36:19 <lyht> They may be in a holding pattern now until after the release of the pixi... who knows.
Nov 10 22:37:05 <CTLAdvance> chuqui adora are you there hiding some where?
Nov 10 22:37:18 <chuqui> hiding?
Nov 10 22:37:20 <chuqui> me? never
Nov 10 22:37:28 <Adora> I never hide
Nov 10 22:37:35 <CTLAdvance> I think they think we cant see them
Nov 10 22:37:36 <Adora> I'm IN YOUR FACE
Nov 10 22:37:45 <CTLAdvance> OY
Nov 10 22:37:48 <chuqui> I'm busy saving the universe from kids writing naughty words in app reviews.
Nov 10 22:38:01 <CTLAdvance> oh thats not good
Nov 10 22:38:38 <Adora> wb  =]
Nov 10 22:38:53 <chuqui> oops
Nov 10 22:39:04 <CTLAdvance> well adora and chuqui we know your busy didnt mean to take you from your work ;)
Nov 10 22:39:07 <chuqui> like, I know how to use computers... including the quit command.
Nov 10 22:39:15 <lyht> chuqui, are you guys kinda in a holding pattern now, waiting for the pixi to be released?
Nov 10 22:39:28 <chuqui> no. please. drag me away from my stunningly useful and interesting work. See if I mind.
Nov 10 22:39:42 <lyht> hahahaha
Nov 10 22:40:04 <Adora> ok, I'm going to have to walk over there and poke him for that one
Nov 10 22:40:07 <chuqui> damn, I did it again.
Nov 10 22:40:20 <sugardave> chuqui: I appreciate your efforts, for sure :D
Nov 10 22:40:23 <CTLAdvance> we need a webOS poke app
Nov 10 22:40:26 <chuqui> memo to self: close the OTHER window, not the ICR one. grump
Nov 10 22:40:35 <CTLAdvance> agree with sugar dave
Nov 10 22:40:41 <lyht> agreed.
Nov 10 22:41:23 <sugardave> might be worthwhile to look at giving app developers the option to send 'questionable' reviews to you, instead of you having to go through all of them?
Nov 10 22:42:11 <CTLAdvance> someone needs to shake his cowbell
Nov 10 22:42:30 <chuqui> I actually wrote up some designs to make app reviews social, let people review reviews. they're being discussed.
Nov 10 22:42:37 <chuqui> I'm hoping we'll see something someday.
Nov 10 22:42:41 <sugardave> that's great
Nov 10 22:43:11 <chuqui> the problem with letting developers flag reviews: a significant subset of reviewers think all negative reviews are objectionable. That just changes who I'm fighting with.
Nov 10 22:43:35 <CTLAdvance> Yeah like flagging all of zero star reviews
Nov 10 22:43:56 <sugardave> true, but with a concrete set of rules: 'you can only submit a questionable review if it only deals with things outside the scope of the app/publisher'
Nov 10 22:44:04 <sugardave> I know, still room for interpretation
Nov 10 22:44:18 <chuqui> you actually think developers read rules?
Nov 10 22:44:22 <sugardave> hahaha
Nov 10 22:44:23 <sugardave> no
Nov 10 22:44:43 <CTLAdvance> That is why they gave us the check all on the submission process
Nov 10 22:44:50 <sugardave> lol
Nov 10 22:45:19 <chuqui> unless the rule is "any review < 5 stars is immediately deleted", it's all open for debate. trust me... It's important (at least to me) to try to avoid biasing the reviews through editing. It may not be positive; it needs to be fair.
Nov 10 22:45:43 <chuqui> so I try to be really careful. OTOH, I'm consistently rejecting 4% of reviews. That number seems high to me, but it's been steady for weeks.
Nov 10 22:46:10 <lyht> can't you hire someone for that?
Nov 10 22:46:14 <chuqui> about 70% of those are because the reviews are over catalog issues, not app problems. Most of the rest is potty-mouth.
Nov 10 22:46:15 <sugardave> I know it's a difficult thing to do, and you're doing a great job
Nov 10 22:46:31 <chuqui> not difficult. numbing, maybe. but not difficult.
Nov 10 22:46:52 <chuqui> not worth hiring. It does take some judgment, adn it only takes me about 2-3 hours a week.
Nov 10 22:46:57 <sugardave> chuqui: I like the long, rambling negative review I have in Mind Master...it's really going to drive home the point I'll be making in the updated app description
Nov 10 22:46:58 <chuqui> somenoe's gotta do it.
Nov 10 22:47:09 <lyht> yah.
Nov 10 22:47:32 <sugardave> now, if ONLY Mind Master were updated soon....
Nov 10 22:47:37 * sugardave whistles innocently.
Nov 10 22:47:42 <CTLAdvance> *sdlf
Nov 10 22:47:47 <CTLAdvance> sorry
Nov 10 22:47:56 <lyht> sugardave, nice plug.
Nov 10 22:47:57 <chuqui> by the by, the general standard: sucks is okay, sh-t is not, crap depends on context. I actually spent time thinking these standards up!
Nov 10 22:48:06 <sugardave> lyht: thank you, thank you :D
Nov 10 22:48:19 <CTLAdvance> @chuq very good
Nov 10 22:48:22 <Rick-work> chuqui  does that mean that "Thank God you wrote this app for me"  and 0 stars should not get an edit then?
Nov 10 22:48:27 <sugardave> chuqui: that does sound rather brain-numbing
Nov 10 22:48:39 <Adora> chuqui: so what's an acceptable use for crap?
Nov 10 22:48:47 <chuqui> zero stars is a different issue. that should be dealt with "in an upcoming release"
Nov 10 22:48:48 <sugardave> "This app is crap"
Nov 10 22:49:10 <lyht> "crap yah! this app rocks!"
Nov 10 22:49:18 <CTLAdvance> haha ugh its getting late I can tell
Nov 10 22:49:20 <chuqui> "this app is crap" is okay. "The author has crap for brains" is not, because I don't allow personal attacks.
Nov 10 22:49:30 <CTLAdvance> good
Nov 10 22:49:33 <lyht> nice
Nov 10 22:49:54 <Rick-work> chuqui I understand about upcoming release. Are you considering just jerking the 0 star reviews because most of them are failures?
Nov 10 22:50:09 <Roy-Pre101> chuqui: Hey thre.
Nov 10 22:50:12 <Roy-Pre101> *there
Nov 10 22:50:14 <chuqui> ditto hate speech. Rips on Palm and the catalog are deleted, not because we don't want to see them, but because we don't want them affecting an app's ratings.
Nov 10 22:50:17 <sugardave> it's like, you can't tell a policeman "You're an asshole" but you can say "You're acting like an asshole"  (at least that was urban myth when I was a youth)
Nov 10 22:50:24 <CTLAdvance> some 0 star reviews look like 4 or 5 star reviews
Nov 10 22:51:00 <Rick-work> I sure miss being able to send a responsive email to a complainer.  "The instructions are in the menu item called "instructions"  if you like them, could you edit your review?"
Nov 10 22:51:04 <Rick-work> I liked that.....
Nov 10 22:51:05 <chuqui> zero stars should be treated as "not rated", not "rated as a zero". that's the bug there. what the rating is and what the text review are are separate, but we have deleted all of the reviews with no rating AND no text.
Nov 10 22:51:16 <Rick-work> ahhhhh
Nov 10 22:51:29 <Rick-work> so zero's wouldn't go into your average.   nice.
Nov 10 22:51:36 <sugardave> that's very good
Nov 10 22:51:45 <Rick-work> that's a good solution
Nov 10 22:52:00 <CTLAdvance> yes I should be at 2.5 stars before our next update
Nov 10 22:52:12 <CTLAdvance> which I hope will bring that up even more :/
Nov 10 22:52:23 <chuqui> exactly. you can not write about an app, or you can not rate it. either is okay. Think of zero stars as "NULL", not "ZERO" (in database parlance)
Nov 10 22:52:24 <Rick-work> that would put simple Big Book at 4.9
Nov 10 22:52:25 * sugardave crosses fingers.
Nov 10 22:52:52 <CTLAdvance> * chokes on pretzel
Nov 10 22:53:03 <sugardave> Mind Master is about 2.5...the old too small hit targets version seemed to have a better response
Nov 10 22:53:03 <Rick-work> (all but one 5 except for the idiot. "A book for drunks on the go?"  :-)  That made us laugh.
Nov 10 22:53:44 <Roy-Pre101> It would be nice if the developer could put at least -1- message in the reviews section.
Nov 10 22:53:55 <chuqui> oh. man. there are some real interesting people writing reviews...
Nov 10 22:53:58 <Roy-Pre101> That gets linked from the top.
Nov 10 22:54:13 <chuqui> I have to keep reminding myself that it's not my job to FIX THEIR DAMN SPELLING.
Nov 10 22:54:18 <chuqui> (grin)
Nov 10 22:54:25 <Roy-Pre101> I sorted apps by stars and went to the bottom.  There were some colorful ones there.
Nov 10 22:54:42 <CTLAdvance> chuq why not automate the review checking process?
Nov 10 22:54:49 <CTLAdvance> with a script or something
Nov 10 22:55:21 <chuqui> how do you automate it? There are a few obvious things like stop word lists, but how do you teach a script the difference between "this app sucks" and "the author of this app is a retard?"
Nov 10 22:55:26 <sugardave> chuqui: that job is grammar nazi hell
Nov 10 22:56:04 <Rick-work> I'm just glad that popular is ranked by rating and not by download count.
Nov 10 22:57:04 <Rick-work> So, chuqui  what's your most exotic bird recently?
Nov 10 22:57:37 <Rick-work> and by the way,  I strongly sympathised with your pain in re sysopinga maling list.  Nice post that.
Nov 10 22:57:46 <Rick-work> mailing
Nov 10 22:57:59 <CTLAdvance> well just keep building on the list of words and phrases to be removed
Nov 10 22:59:44 <chuqui> I think we should rank by download count as well, split between paid and free.
Nov 10 23:00:03 <chuqui> more information is better, even if we don't give details on the raw numbers.
Nov 10 23:00:03 * rwhitby waves to chuqui
Nov 10 23:00:04 <CTLAdvance> for example sh-t for brains would be on the delete list along wuth f--k and sucks balls
Nov 10 23:00:39 <Rick-work> chuqui   more ways to sort is better as long as the options don't overwhelm the enduser.
Nov 10 23:00:41 <chuqui> rick -- thanks.
Nov 10 23:00:55 <Roy-Pre101> chuqui: My #1 request is to fix searching so it does title match first, then full text search.
Nov 10 23:01:03 <Roy-Pre101> Searching for 'Match' should put Match 'em at the top.
Nov 10 23:01:12 <Roy-Pre101> Instead, it's like the 5th app.
Nov 10 23:01:26 <chuqui> I haven't done much birding since my Morro Bay trip; been pretty boring in life. working on stuff I need to blog about (and playing a lot of oblivion and being a couch potato)
Nov 10 23:02:38 <chuqui> I'm looking to go after the cranes in the next week or so, and we'll likely bird Merced on thanksgiving holiday, weather permitting. And I'm mentally thinking of a short trip to Yosemite in december or january to see about doing some winter photography. we'll see
Nov 10 23:03:04 <chuqui> roy, good point on the searching. Making a note.
Nov 10 23:07:23 <Roy-Pre101> Speaking of app catalog, I can't find the patch for download count on my phone now.
Nov 10 23:07:36 <sugardave> Roy-Pre101: bummer
Nov 10 23:07:46 <Roy-Pre101> Also, my Adium has started using a british english dictionary.
Nov 10 23:07:56 <Roy-Pre101> How can it have done that?
Nov 10 23:08:24 <sugardave> Adium?  I have admob reporting some of my early testing clicks coming from europe and central america
Nov 10 23:09:03 <rob___> Thanks for your guys help today.  I made some pretty good progress on my "Attitude" app.  It simulates the attitude indicator in an airplane.  Goes along with my Altimeter app.  Anyone wanna play with it?  I'll put up an IPK for a few minutes if there's interest.
Nov 10 23:09:10 <sugardave> see, in the emulator, I can't get the wan IP from a service call, so I generate a 172.16.x.x address while I go out to a 3rd party to get the natted IP
Nov 10 23:12:01 <Roy-Pre101> Adium is my Mac aim/irc/gchat/etc client
Nov 10 23:12:20 <sugardave> oh
Nov 10 23:12:24 <sugardave> I've got ads on the brain
Nov 10 23:12:24 <sugardave> sorry
Nov 10 23:18:16 <lyht> rob___, Sounds cool. Love to take a look at it.
Nov 10 23:18:57 <rob___> Cool.  Lemme put it online for a few minutes.
Nov 10 23:19:49 <rob___> lyht, you can point fileCoaster to http://www.185vfx.com/dl/com.185vfx.attitude_0.0.5_all.ipk
Nov 10 23:20:09 <rob___> I'll leave it up there for a few minutes in case anyone wants to play with it.
Nov 10 23:24:06 <lyht> rob___, very cool looking. and seems to respond nicely. I also like "Hold upright for more accurate reading"
Nov 10 23:24:28 <rob___> Thanks.  I'm proud of the little things.  The light that glows made me happy.  :)
Nov 10 23:29:09 <Roy-Pre101> Well, that was nice of my son to close out all my chat windows.
Nov 10 23:29:21 <sugardave> heh
Nov 10 23:29:35 <rob___> My kids like to "help" on the computer sometimes too.  At least it wasn't your coding window...
Nov 10 23:29:40 <lyht> what are kids for.
Nov 10 23:30:53 <sugardave> so....can't get systemProperties service request in the emulator?
Nov 10 23:33:02 <sugardave> ah, I see it in the bug forum
Nov 10 23:36:13 <pYr0x> guys... need your help again
Nov 10 23:36:15 <pYr0x> http://pastebin.com/m50e42c89
Nov 10 23:36:40 <pYr0x> how can i fill a List via Ajax
Nov 10 23:38:34 <rob___> I'm gonna take attitude down in a couple mins unless someone else wants to play...
Nov 10 23:41:20 <haeffb> pYr0x: I don't know if you can setupWidget outside of setup() function.
Nov 10 23:41:48 <pYr0x> so how can i fill the List widget with an ajax response?
Nov 10 23:41:51 <haeffb> You can setupWidget in setup(), then change the model in your callback
Nov 10 23:43:06 <pYr0x> so i must refer the widget to .. for example this.myList = ....
Nov 10 23:43:52 <haeffb> in setup(), I'd create the model as this.myListModel = {modelstuff}
Nov 10 23:44:08 <pYr0x> and later "this.myList.model = [{...}]
Nov 10 23:45:24 <haeffb> modelstuff contains an items: property that is your list items
Nov 10 23:45:45 <haeffb> in your callback, you can set myListModel.items = [{}]
Nov 10 23:46:05 <haeffb> then call this.controller.modelChanged(myListModel);
Nov 10 23:47:18 <pYr0x> ok i will test :)
Nov 10 23:47:20 <pYr0x> thx
Nov 10 23:48:55 <lyht> pYr0x, You can also do setupWidget outside of setup(), if you then call this.controller.instantiateChildWidgets(this.controller.sceneElement);
Nov 10 23:49:22 <lyht> which will tell the app to rebuild the widget list.
Nov 10 23:49:44 <pYr0x> aha... ok ... oO
Nov 10 23:49:46 <pYr0x> ;)
Nov 10 23:49:54 <Roy-Pre101> pYr0x: When you get it all sorted out, please update the dynamic list section here:  http://webos101.com/List
Nov 10 23:51:38 <Roy-Pre101> pYr0x: There's a section in there about using the ajax success call to populate the list, if that's all you need.
Nov 10 23:51:58 <pYr0x> ok... thx
Nov 10 23:57:55 <haeffb> Roy-Pre101: what needs to be added? Looks good to me...
Nov 11 00:00:18 <Roy-Pre101> If it wasn't enough to get pYr0x where he needed then he could add anything that was lacking.  I think it has most of what you need there.
Nov 11 00:00:39 <Roy-Pre101> There's actually still a good bit about lists that's missing from there.
Nov 11 00:00:51 <pYr0x> first my list must working ... :)
Nov 11 00:00:58 <pYr0x> and it didn't
Nov 11 00:01:00 <Roy-Pre101> That's a good place to start.
Nov 11 00:01:01 <pYr0x> :(
Nov 11 00:01:10 <Roy-Pre101> Read through that page, it should get you going.
Nov 11 00:02:40 <pYr0x> where i should put the ajax request in?
Nov 11 00:02:55 <pYr0x> AjaxAssistant.prototype.activate ?
Nov 11 00:04:38 <haeffb> you can leave it in setup() if you want. or activate(). either should work.
Nov 11 00:08:04 <pYr0x> hmm
Nov 11 00:08:11 <pYr0x> the ajax request wont work
Nov 11 00:08:16 <haeffb> Roy-Pre101: would this be helpful for widgets in a list:  https://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2850
Nov 11 00:11:11 <evul_c> oh my god. this just rocks.
Nov 11 00:12:12 <evul_c> irc on my pre!
Nov 11 00:12:16 <cmang> hi there.  is there a webos dev channel on freenode?  Also, is there a way to call a C function (like from a pure c library) on the phone from a webos app?
Nov 11 00:12:30 * evul_c is tickled.
Nov 11 00:24:27 <Roy-Pre101> hmm, don't I have something there on widget setup?
Nov 11 00:24:43 <Roy-Pre101> Oh...
Nov 11 00:24:50 <Roy-Pre101> The List Widget With Checkbox example is empty.
Nov 11 00:25:18 <Roy-Pre101> Oddly, my sample I made didn't need to call instantiateChildWidgets...  Weird!
Nov 11 00:25:28 <Roy-Pre101> I kept meaning to get back to that.
Nov 11 00:26:01 <rob___> Anybody know what size the miniicon should be?  Does it get used anywhere?  For some reason a search on miniicon on the webOsdev site doesn't reveal that.
Nov 11 00:26:21 <incidentist> cmang: this is the webos dev channel on freenode, and no, there's no way to call a C function from a normal (javascript) webos app.
Nov 11 00:27:05 <Roy-Pre101> haeffb: Can you fill in this page with your sample code?
Nov 11 00:27:12 <Roy-Pre101> http://webos101.com/wiki/index.php?title=List_Widget_With_Checkbox_Example&action=edit&redlink=1
Nov 11 00:27:51 <Roy-Pre101> rob___: It's in the app guidelines.  I believe (off the top of my head) it's 48px square.
Nov 11 00:28:10 <rob___> Got that one for the main icon.  I just thought the miniicon might even be smaller.
Nov 11 00:28:27 <rob___> My first app didn't have a miniicon so maybe it's not needed (yet).
Nov 11 00:28:37 <sugardave> I think miniicon is 32x32
Nov 11 00:28:44 <sugardave> it's not necessary
Nov 11 00:28:50 <rob___> Thanks.
Nov 11 00:29:08 * rob___ thinks sd knows all.  At least all of my questions.  
Nov 11 00:29:08 <rob___> :)
Nov 11 00:29:12 <sugardave> haha
Nov 11 00:29:18 <sugardave> I'm soooo not there yet
Nov 11 00:30:13 <pYr0x> any idea why the ajax request wont work
Nov 11 00:30:15 <pYr0x> http://pastebin.com/m4f0c9bbf
Nov 11 00:30:21 <pYr0x> i get no error !
Nov 11 00:30:43 <pYr0x> but also no "Got Ajax response:" info
Nov 11 00:32:16 <Roy-Pre101> sugardave: Are you sure?  You're required to have one when you submit the app
Nov 11 00:32:36 <sugardave> oh, really?
Nov 11 00:32:37 <Roy-Pre101> not the mini icon
Nov 11 00:32:41 <Roy-Pre101> but a smaller icon
Nov 11 00:32:45 <sugardave> oh yeah
Nov 11 00:32:53 <sugardave> that's the 32x32 one, I think I was talking about
Nov 11 00:33:09 <Roy-Pre101> Yes, sorry, I think I confused the whole issue.
Nov 11 00:33:18 <Roy-Pre101> The miniicon is used in the notification area.
Nov 11 00:33:21 <sugardave> pYr0x: that code looks familiar :D  what happens if you just point a browser at that URL?
Nov 11 00:33:41 <sugardave> Roy-Pre101: oh, that's MUCH smaller then
Nov 11 00:33:49 <pYr0x> i got the json from php
Nov 11 00:33:51 <Roy-Pre101> The small icon for submission is 48x48 px with a border.
Nov 11 00:33:57 <Roy-Pre101> As I suspected.
Nov 11 00:34:06 <guestyou> just a shout out to all those involved with wIRC from webosinternals. great job!
Nov 11 00:34:56 <sugardave> hmm, I do not...I get a web page
Nov 11 00:35:42 <pYr0x> i rewrite the hosts on the emu
Nov 11 00:36:05 <sugardave> pYr0x: I see...
Nov 11 00:36:59 <pYr0x> so... the f++ing ajax didn't work
Nov 11 00:37:04 <pYr0x> any idea?
Nov 11 00:37:56 <sugardave> pYr0x: try this...http://pastebin.com/d46080b95
Nov 11 00:38:10 <sugardave> and see if you get some output from the 'onSuccess'
Nov 11 00:39:44 <pYr0x> yes
Nov 11 00:39:55 <pYr0x> got an response text
Nov 11 00:40:54 <sugardave> okay, now change it to Mojo.Log.error(Object.toJSON(response.responseJSON));
Nov 11 00:40:59 <sugardave> and see if you get something interesting
Nov 11 00:42:18 <pYr0x> get "null"
Nov 11 00:43:03 <sugardave> that means your PHP script is failing to populate responseJSON
Nov 11 00:43:16 <sugardave> if you have responseText, what does it say?
Nov 11 00:43:54 <pYr0x>  error: [{"name":"Julian"},{"name":"Karo"}]
Nov 11 00:44:51 <sugardave> okay, so do you have header('Content-type: application/json'); in your php?
Nov 11 00:45:11 <pYr0x> no
Nov 11 00:45:16 <sugardave> that's why
Nov 11 00:45:25 <sugardave> it's magic
Nov 11 00:45:39 <pYr0x> aha....
Nov 11 00:45:41 <pYr0x> tricky
Nov 11 00:45:43 <Roy-Pre101> You can also use forceJSON or something similar
Nov 11 00:45:57 <sugardave> Roy-Pre101: oh yeah, haven't tried that
Nov 11 00:46:13 <Roy-Pre101> There's a sample PHP/Ajax on webos101.com too
Nov 11 00:46:24 <Roy-Pre101> http://webos101.com/Getting_JSON_From_An_External_MySQL_Database
Nov 11 00:46:36 <Roy-Pre101> Which really applies to any sort of ajax from php
Nov 11 00:46:39 <sugardave> I know, isn't it cool? :D
Nov 11 00:46:53 <datafirm> Im about to write a caching system for images.  Thinking about using the depot to store the base64 data so it can later be applied to my img tags.  There is no file IO yet, correct?
Nov 11 00:46:55 <Roy-Pre101> Should put a note there about forceJSON
Nov 11 00:47:00 <sugardave> nod
Nov 11 00:47:11 <Roy-Pre101> datafirm: No file IO, use SQL
Nov 11 00:47:30 <sugardave> I'll test that at some point and add it
Nov 11 00:47:36 <pYr0x> damn... i read this article... and overlook the header
Nov 11 00:47:37 <datafirm> limit of 1MB though
Nov 11 00:47:37 <pYr0x> :(
Nov 11 00:47:43 <sugardave> datafirm: not true
Nov 11 00:47:48 <pYr0x> it's realy late
Nov 11 00:47:50 <sugardave> if you are willing to store on /media/internal
Nov 11 00:47:56 <sugardave> your db can be "any size"
Nov 11 00:48:28 <datafirm> yes, I remember reading that.
Nov 11 00:48:29 <datafirm> thanks
Nov 11 00:48:37 <Roy-Pre101> Do you guys prefer Ajax or AJAX?
Nov 11 00:48:47 <datafirm> Ajax
Nov 11 00:48:53 <sugardave> technically speaking, AJAX
Nov 11 00:48:59 <sugardave> it's an acronym after all
Nov 11 00:49:02 <datafirm> I prefer XMLHttpRequest ;)
Nov 11 00:49:07 <Roy-Pre101> hah
Nov 11 00:49:08 <sugardave> hehe
Nov 11 00:49:18 <Roy-Pre101> Wikipedia goes with Ajax.
Nov 11 00:49:27 <sugardave> there you go
Nov 11 00:51:02 <Roy-Pre101> Hmm, my Wiki is letting people not logged in edit pages.  That's not good.
Nov 11 00:52:13 <sugardave> oops
Nov 11 00:52:31 <Giotto> the good old days when we were messing with iframes because there was no ajax :)
Nov 11 01:08:51 <sugardave> hey reality9110
Nov 11 01:09:23 <reality9110> hello
Nov 11 01:16:09 <haeffb> Roy-Pre101: yeah, but it logged my IP address...
Nov 11 01:19:26 <Roy-Pre101> haeffb: Thank you!  I'll fix it so you log in
Nov 11 01:20:03 <Roy-Pre101> Not sure how that got unset.
Nov 11 01:23:33 <haeffb> then I guess I gotta get signed up.
Nov 11 01:24:25 <Roy-Pre101> There we go.
Nov 11 01:24:32 <Roy-Pre101> Just trying to cut back on wiki spam
Nov 11 01:24:45 <Roy-Pre101> If the wiki gets picked up by a spambot it'll all be over!
Nov 11 01:24:57 <sugardave> oh lord
Nov 11 01:25:25 <Roy-Pre101> Fortunately, creating an account just takes an e-mail address.
Nov 11 01:29:45 <haeffb> got account, edited the List Widget with Checkbox page. Probably need some explanation of the code as well.
Nov 11 01:41:55 <Roy-Pre101> haeffb: Maybe the HTML to go along with that would be helpful?
Nov 11 01:43:13 <haeffb> Ok, but I didn't write the HTML. Yet.
Nov 11 01:43:32 <sugardave> it sure is difficult to test a test ad when they keep sending 'no ad available' for long stretches
Nov 11 01:56:56 <haeffb> added some html
Nov 11 02:00:48 <webosschool-just> good even, how is everyone
Nov 11 02:01:22 <haeffb> odd
Nov 11 02:03:17 <Roy-Pre101> webosschool-just: Hey man
Nov 11 02:03:25 <rboatrightxx> Tired. Lastnpixi patch eating my brain
Nov 11 02:03:53 <Roy-Pre101> ?
Nov 11 02:04:20 <rboatrightxx> Pixi is tiny
Nov 11 02:04:40 <rboatrightxx> If you have a board game app,
Nov 11 02:06:39 <rboatrightxx> What to keep, what to give up
Nov 11 02:07:41 <webosschool-just> Hey Roy, hows it going/
Nov 11 02:07:47 <sugardave> rboatrightxx: I don't have anything yet, but have been considering what I'm going to do...probably rely on "control panels" or something that can be raised or hidden
Nov 11 02:09:40 <Roy-Pre101> webosschool-just: Good, good.  How'd Iowa Code Camp go?
Nov 11 02:09:51 <rboatrightxx> Sugardave yeh
Nov 11 02:10:13 <Roy-Pre101> rboatrightxx: I know the feeling.  Running into the same problem with Match 'Em
Nov 11 02:11:28 <bryanroth> anybody get into the developer program recently?
Nov 11 02:11:40 <Pat__> hello all
Nov 11 02:13:26 <Roy-Pre101> Can't everyone get into the developer program?
Nov 11 02:14:40 <Pat__> Can anyone offer a solution to attaching a HOLD event to a commandMenu?
Nov 11 02:15:23 <Roy-Pre101> Hold event?
Nov 11 02:15:42 <webosschool-just> Roy-Pre101: iowacodecamp was good, we will be posting videos shortly
Nov 11 02:17:01 <Pat__> Yes, hold, not just down, or up or tap, but I need for the user to press abutton on the commandMenu, and then a counter starts for as long as they are holding that button down.
Nov 11 02:18:59 <webosschool-just> has anyone been able to add markers to maps?
Nov 11 02:18:59 <bryanroth> Roy-Pre101: err, more like the beta e-commerce program
Nov 11 02:19:12 <Pat__> the commandMenu has no divs to attach a traditional event to it. It relies on the handleCommand
Nov 11 02:21:23 <Roy-Pre101> Pat__: Use a different widget.
Nov 11 02:21:48 <Roy-Pre101> webosschool-just: Looking forward to the videos.
Nov 11 02:22:42 <webosschool-just> Roy-Pre101 we will also have source to the Moletap game we created and SlugBug
Nov 11 02:23:27 <Pat__> Use a different widget?.... the command menu is what I need to use.
Nov 11 02:23:30 <Roy-Pre101> SlugBug?
Nov 11 02:24:10 <Roy-Pre101> Feh, I called out for app reviewers before an no one was interested.  Now, 4 people responded in 5 minutes. ;P
Nov 11 02:24:52 <rboatrightxx> Roy an 8x8 game has to take 320 pix ...doesn't leave much
Nov 11 02:25:28 <DocHemi> can anyone help me with setting up wIRC on my Pre?
Nov 11 02:26:14 <rboatrightxx> Doc join #wirc
Nov 11 02:26:41 <DocHemi> ok i havent been on mIRC for many years how do i do that
Nov 11 02:27:01 <rboatrightxx> Doc /join #wirc
Nov 11 02:27:05 <DocHemi> duh never mind i got it
Nov 11 02:27:56 <bryanroth> has anyone gotten into the beta e-commerce program recently?
Nov 11 02:28:15 <sugardave> rboatrightxx: you COULD get 10 columns in 320px
Nov 11 02:28:22 <sugardave> they'll let you get away with 32px for games
Nov 11 02:29:34 <sugardave> bryanroth: define recently
Nov 11 02:30:03 <bryanroth> sugardave: like in the last week or so
Nov 11 02:30:22 <sugardave> I'm in for about 3 weeks now
Nov 11 02:30:45 <bryanroth> sugardave: and it took you about a week for them to email you back?
Nov 11 02:31:51 <KrisSiegel> wIRC works quite nicely :)
Nov 11 02:32:25 <sugardave> Any time I emailed my "handler" I got a response in a day or so, but my entire submission process took 11 or 13 days
Nov 11 02:32:27 * haeffb submitted an app on Aug 23 and haven't been accepted yet
Nov 11 02:33:09 <rboatrightxx> Does it show when you log into the dev site in myapps?
Nov 11 02:33:32 <rboatrightxx> Cause  if not, it is lost
Nov 11 02:34:06 <haeffb> you don't get myapps until they start reviewing your (first) app.
Nov 11 02:34:16 <haeffb> chuq assures me they still have it.
Nov 11 02:34:27 <rboatrightxx> Wierd
Nov 11 02:34:51 <sugardave> haeffb: did you submit yours via email before getting the online access?
Nov 11 02:34:53 <rboatrightxx> What is it?
Nov 11 02:35:08 <haeffb> TaskAdder
Nov 11 02:35:16 <rboatrightxx> Ahhhhh
Nov 11 02:35:20 <haeffb> not a high-demand app
Nov 11 02:35:29 <haeffb> not as useful as six tip calcs
Nov 11 02:35:58 * sugardave remembers to guard the secret app idea from earlier today.
Nov 11 02:36:13 <rob___> hehehe
Nov 11 02:37:29 <reality9110> hmmm...cpm.
Nov 11 02:37:46 <bryanroth> haeffb: really? submitted aug 23 and no word?
Nov 11 02:38:22 <reality9110> I bet when I submit my app, it'll get approved in a few days.
Nov 11 02:39:01 <bryanroth> reality9110: really? how's that?
Nov 11 02:40:24 <reality9110> Threats of physical harm go a long way
Nov 11 02:40:56 <reality9110> That, or an executive contact.
Nov 11 02:41:44 <haeffb> Yeah. The only communication I've gotten from Palm is when I email chuq.  But now I know I can find him in here... (evil cackle)
Nov 11 02:42:13 * haeffb apologizes to the rest of you when I drive chuq away
Nov 11 02:43:21 <bryanroth> lol
Nov 11 02:46:39 <bryanroth> haeffb: so you haven't heard back from Palm yet about your app?
Nov 11 02:47:16 <haeffb> Not from the ecommerce.beta program, no.
Nov 11 02:49:38 <bryanroth> haeffb: dang
Nov 11 02:50:05 <bryanroth> haeffb: I guess we all could be waiting indefinitely.
Nov 11 02:51:07 <haeffb> could be. I'm not concerned - I have another job that pays the bills. Palm just got swamped with submittals & are working through them.
Nov 11 02:51:31 <haeffb> Or maybe they just don't like me... :)
Nov 11 02:52:56 <bryanroth> haeffb: true, perhaps we're in the same boat
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Nov 11 02:59:56 2009