**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Dec 10 02:59:56 2009
Dec 10 03:01:12 <JangKro> Helo ... on a high level is there a way to write an application for the palm that waits for an SMS message to arrive in your inbox and performs something ?
Dec 10 03:03:13 <JangKro> I'm looking at the API reference but don't see messaging events
Dec 10 03:13:04 <JangKro> Is that an odd question or something? :)
Dec 10 03:13:17 <FoxFireX> Afraid we just don't have a good answer for ya. :)
Dec 10 03:13:42 <haeffb_> not odd, just nobody around. I'm no expert, but I don't think what you want is possible at this point.
Dec 10 03:14:03 <JangKro> Thanks, I understand ...
Dec 10 03:14:10 <JangKro> AFAIK neither can Android do it ... windows mobile can however
Dec 10 03:15:46 <JangKro> haeffb_, in other words the API isn't low-level enough to allow interception of those events?
Dec 10 03:16:21 <FoxFireX> Pretty much.  Cool as webOS is, Palm hasn't* opened up a lot of the features we'd like to see.
Dec 10 03:16:26 <FoxFireX> * (officially)
Dec 10 03:16:29 <haeffb_> not at this point, afaik
Dec 10 03:17:23 <JangKro> FoxFireX, would 'incoming call' or 'incoming sms' be one of the featuers you'd like / expect to see?
Dec 10 03:17:34 <JangKro> yeah officially in that ... there's gotta be some way to do it, if you only know how
Dec 10 03:17:39 <FoxFireX> It's something I know many developers have asked for.
Dec 10 03:18:02 <FoxFireX> And I believe folks have figured out at least some of the APIs; after all, it's Linux-based, so you can figure a lot of things out.
Dec 10 03:18:19 <FoxFireX> It's just a matter of what they'll allow to be distributed through the App Catalog.
Dec 10 03:18:40 <zsoc> To which the answer is pretty much nothing
Dec 10 03:19:01 <FoxFireX> Pretty much nothing that's unpublished, anyway.
Dec 10 03:19:29 <haeffb_> touch diamond is activate for voice, but not data yet. keeps beeping at me
Dec 10 03:19:33 <JangKro> *what* is just amatter of what they'll allow to be distributed through the App Catalog?  What they choose to make publically available?
Dec 10 03:20:02 <FoxFireX> Yeah; if your app uses unpublished APIs, they won't accept it for distribution.
Dec 10 03:20:25 <FoxFireX> There are other distribution methods available, but you won't reach the same audience.
Dec 10 03:20:33 <zsoc> JangKro: They only have to support they APIs they published. It's a unification thing. Otherwise they would have to to support every API, or at least not change them during firmware updates
Dec 10 03:20:38 <zsoc> which they can't promise
Dec 10 03:20:51 <zsoc> Although last time I was in Best Buy, I saw a guy loading Preware on a new customers Pre, lol
Dec 10 03:21:51 <haeffb_> sprint says "may take up to 4 hours" to activate data. bogus.
Dec 10 03:22:06 <JangKro> I'm using the Pre but not with Sprint which means the navigation seems not to work, and also I cannot use the app catalog to buy anything ... only to download free ones ... it asks for a "password" and I have no idea what that would be !
Dec 10 03:22:28 <zsoc> haeffb_: that's just plain wrong. Under 95% of circumstances, data should work almost instantly (unless there's a known issue)
Dec 10 03:22:54 <zsoc> JangKro: Yes, "Sprint Navigation" only works on sprint :P
Dec 10 03:23:33 <haeffb_> online activation rarely works for me. don't know why
Dec 10 03:24:16 <JangKro> zsoc, fine ... but there should be some GPS application allowing me to at least use basic worldwide-available GPS features.
Dec 10 03:25:14 <JangKro> the password they ask for with the app catalog -- is that given to you when by sprint or something ?
Dec 10 03:25:36 <zsoc> not sure honestly, i don't recall anything about a password
Dec 10 03:25:41 <zsoc> probably a nai thing
Dec 10 03:26:04 <haeffb_> voice works. data not so much.
Dec 10 03:26:27 <FoxFireX> The password is your Palm profile password, I believe.
Dec 10 03:26:45 <zsoc> oh that's likely
Dec 10 03:27:22 <rick_home> zsoc it's more than likely, it's 100% correct.
Dec 10 03:27:48 <rick_home> The "first use" app that lets you set up a palm profile can _not_ run unless it is coming into the servers over a carrier's network.
Dec 10 03:27:58 <rick_home> and the carrier network _specifies" which app catalog you get.
Dec 10 03:28:11 <rick_home> So, if you're a Sprint user, you get the sprint version of the app cat and so forth
Dec 10 03:28:32 <zsoc> Wow, you're worked up rick. "specifies" got one underscore and one double quote ;)
Dec 10 03:28:38 <rick_home> so, if you have an unlocked gsm pre, or if you have a meta-doctored pre, you do NOT get a working ap catalog, _PERIOD_
Dec 10 03:28:53 <rick_home> and the security head at Palm is quite adament that this is -not- going to change
Dec 10 03:29:01 * zsoc has now been learned
Dec 10 03:29:05 <zsoc> makes sense
Dec 10 03:29:07 <haeffb_> restoring backup from August on Touch Diamond. Wonder what I'll get...?
Dec 10 03:29:53 <JangKro> rick_home, my app catalog works fine for free apps, for paid apps it prompts for a password, and I'm not sure what that is.
Dec 10 03:29:54 * zsoc wonders if #htc would be more interested
Dec 10 03:30:03 <rick_home> yep.  I quized him quite closely.  Dinner went on for a -long- time.  He felt that the carrrier spec allows them to have at least a vague hint that you are who you claim you are.
Dec 10 03:30:20 <zsoc> JangKro: i'm fairly certain he just explained...
Dec 10 03:30:24 <rick_home> JangKro:   it's the palm profile password you set up when you did the first-use of the phone
Dec 10 03:30:33 <haeffb_> #htc probably would. But I'm going back to diamond because Pre is broken.
Dec 10 03:30:42 <rick_home> If you meta-doctored, then you don't got one
Dec 10 03:30:45 <zsoc> haeffb_: ah... you have insurance?
Dec 10 03:31:28 <haeffb_> new pre is on the way. down $100. er, $128, since I've paid four months TEP
Dec 10 03:31:29 <JangKro> rick_home, I got that partt that it's the first run password ... but I'm wondering how I have a working app catalog when my Pre is unlocked.
Dec 10 03:31:44 <rick_home> you have a working FREE app catalog
Dec 10 03:31:44 <zsoc> haeffb_: eh, TEP is worth it for about 10-12 months ;)
Dec 10 03:32:08 <JangKro> true, but you said not a working ap catalog, _PERIOD_ so I figured that to include both free AND paid apps
Dec 10 03:32:11 <haeffb_> $128 is better than $500 for sure.
Dec 10 03:32:13 <rick_home> JangKro:  expect that to change relatively soon.
Dec 10 03:32:30 <FoxFireX> Didn't get the TEP.  Wife decided to let her Pre perform a taste-test of her coffee.
Dec 10 03:32:30 <zsoc> Preware ftw ;)
Dec 10 03:32:35 <JangKro> i.e. expect my app catalog to stop working very soon ?
Dec 10 03:32:45 <rick_home> JangKro:  yeppers
Dec 10 03:32:48 <haeffb_> crap. backup is from after I setup the phone for wife.
Dec 10 03:32:59 <haeffb_> back to basic touchflo3d
Dec 10 03:33:42 <zsoc> So I don't know what's in the news, but the Pre is still selling really well in my part of the nation
Dec 10 03:33:44 <JangKro> hmmm ... is there a universal cut-off date, or is it relative to how long the phone has been in use?
Dec 10 03:35:04 <rick_home> JangKro:   it's when palm throws the switch to the newer app cat software.  Probably about the same time that they start offering paid apps outside north america
Dec 10 03:36:09 <zsoc> rick_home: stop knowing everything
Dec 10 03:36:12 <rwhitby> rick_home: I have app catalog on my meta-doctored sprint Pre
Dec 10 03:36:42 <rwhitby> and I can guarantee it doesn't come in through sprint
Dec 10 03:36:49 <zsoc> rwhitby: you have CDMA in au?
Dec 10 03:37:09 <rwhitby> nope
Dec 10 03:37:16 <zsoc> oh, wifi?
Dec 10 03:37:20 <JangKro> this article a few weeks ago asying Meta-Doctoring can give you a working catalog: http://www.precentral.net/paid-app-catalog-appearing-select-gsm-pre-owners
Dec 10 03:37:22 <rwhitby> yep
Dec 10 03:37:28 <zsoc> interesting
Dec 10 03:37:51 <rwhitby> haven't bought anything, but free stuff installs
Dec 10 03:38:23 <zsoc> I actually feel bad for those developers that don't have / can't use an active webos device as their primary phone. It's a pretty rockin' experience imho
Dec 10 03:38:43 <rick_home> rwhitby:   and I am prepared to bet the cost of your next chicken/green pepper/pinapple pizza that you can not buy anything from your working catalog
Dec 10 03:39:13 <zsoc> I wonder if he could forge a legit profile in wifi.
Dec 10 03:39:30 <rick_home> JangKro:   I read that too.  What that article doesn't specify is that they succeeded in BUYING anything.
Dec 10 03:40:21 <rick_home> zsoc,  the app cat purchase is based on a palm-profile password set up by running first-use.  Meta skips that.  I can't see how it would work, and Brian thought it impossible.  I admit he could have been wrong, but it is his job not to be wrong about stuff like that
Dec 10 03:41:46 <zsoc> rick_home: right, but what if someone in america run's a first use, makes a new profile, then doctors their phone and goes back to their old profile. i'm sure there's some hack that then someone in a different country using wifi could mimic that dummy profile the other individual created
Dec 10 03:42:38 <FoxFireX> Hmm... Wonder if someone could connect the Pre via wifi to a device that was connected to a Sprint tethered device and get it set up that way.  It'd be coming (NATted) through a Sprint server IP.
Dec 10 03:42:51 <zsoc> assuming it checks that
Dec 10 03:42:58 <zsoc> I don't know, I'm sure their security thought of it
Dec 10 03:43:09 <FoxFireX> Yeah, just random mumbling. :)
Dec 10 03:43:17 <zsoc> I mean really, what's the 'security risk' there? you still need a card to pay for the app
Dec 10 03:43:34 <rick_home> FoxFireX:   that's an interesting thought.  :-)  You mighty ask security@palm.com if that would work.
Dec 10 03:43:57 <rick_home> FoxFireX:   but you would STILL have to be in the US in a sprint service area
Dec 10 03:44:01 <FoxFireX> Eh, that would require more motivation than I've got at the moment.  :)
Dec 10 03:44:36 <FoxFireX> Oh, someone could build a small server that folks could connect to over the wired net.  Take a bit of doing, but I could see it working.
Dec 10 03:44:48 <zsoc> rick_home: I guess what I'm saying is.. what does the first use app actually "set up"? and is it locked away somewhere deep in a binary?
Dec 10 03:44:54 <FoxFireX> Some kindhearted American who wants to help out their brethren.
Dec 10 03:45:15 <zsoc> Not that paid apps are really great atm :P
Dec 10 03:45:38 <rick_home> it sets up an account on palm's servers.  specifically it sets up your backup account.  Which is confidential data.
Dec 10 03:46:12 <zsoc> rick_home: what verifys that? what if i have a legit account, but i'm using a meta doctored phone
Dec 10 03:46:29 <rick_home> zsoc -- not sure
Dec 10 03:46:37 <zsoc> and there's nothing stopping someone from making 100 accounts, just doctoring their phone and using a different email address each time
Dec 10 03:47:20 <zsoc> although having 2 devices on the same profile ends up with some interesting results ;)
Dec 10 03:47:27 <reality9110> Oh.  Thanks for mentioning tethering.  I'm going on vacation here in a few weeks (finally!) and need to install tethering again.
Dec 10 03:56:30 <sugardav1> so....what is the current state of the auto-generating support scene....does it work?
Dec 10 04:01:11 <JangKro> well my name is Brian if that helps at all
Dec 10 04:01:25 <JangKro> I'm still running 1.2.1 so perhaps that has to do with why my catalog still works
Dec 10 04:05:23 <EdLin> I'm having a problem with my Pre, so far with Tweed, Facebook, and drPodder. Sometimes it says "too many cards open" with only one or two apps open. I reboot, and the problem goes away.
Dec 10 04:05:58 <zsoc> EdLin: The "too many cards" error is sort of a misnomer
Dec 10 04:06:25 <EdLin> zsoc,yeah, they should call it "webos is buggy" error
Dec 10 04:07:07 <EdLin> zsoc: any way I can make it go away, or do I have to reboot daily like a winmo device needs?
Dec 10 04:07:27 <sugardave> EdLin: some app is leaking badly
Dec 10 04:07:30 <sugardave> like sprint nav bad
Dec 10 04:07:35 <zsoc> right right
Dec 10 04:07:37 <zsoc> it's a memory issue
Dec 10 04:07:51 <sugardave> honestly, I tried to use sprint nav for our disney world road trip...horrible
Dec 10 04:08:12 * zsoc uses google maps....
Dec 10 04:08:38 <EdLin> sugardave, Garmin paid Sprint to make the Sprint Nav app. Only explaination I can come up with atm.
Dec 10 04:08:40 <sugardave> but I don't know how to make auto-reroute without stopping and punching it in myself
Dec 10 04:08:53 <zsoc> but google maps works so well...
Dec 10 04:08:58 <sugardave> yes, it works great
Dec 10 04:09:08 <sugardave> but it doesn't auto-route me :P
Dec 10 04:09:18 <sugardave> unless I'm just missing something
Dec 10 04:09:56 <EdLin> sugardave, it really sucks in NYC, where all the roads are parallel to each other and close together.
Dec 10 04:10:05 <EdLin> its useless here
Dec 10 04:10:08 <sugardave> lame
Dec 10 04:10:17 <zsoc> google maps works great in NYC...
Dec 10 04:10:24 <EdLin> yeah, google maps works OK
Dec 10 04:10:31 <zsoc> lol sorry
Dec 10 04:10:34 <EdLin> well, it locates me a block away.
Dec 10 04:10:50 <zsoc> EdLin: does closing all of your open cards and then trying to reopen what ever you were doing fix the problem?
Dec 10 04:10:53 <EdLin> but at least it doesn't claim to be a road directions app, on the PRe
Dec 10 04:10:57 <sugardave> EdLin: well, don't feel bad...if you ever use it for more than an hour or so driving it starts eating up memory...gives the 'too many cards' error when it's the only f-ing card
Dec 10 04:11:00 <EdLin> zsoc, no, I try that.
Dec 10 04:11:24 <reality9110> Probably has a caching problem
Dec 10 04:11:25 <zsoc> EdLin: definitely a funny memory problem... i'd be curious to see what your dbus was doing while that's going on...
Dec 10 04:11:43 <EdLin> zsoc, I did install ssh on it. Could that be the problem?
Dec 10 04:11:55 <zsoc> EdLin: not unless someone else was logged into it lol
Dec 10 04:12:01 <zsoc> EdLin: have you ever installed mytether?
Dec 10 04:12:04 <EdLin> no
Dec 10 04:12:05 <atlanta> grrr now palm install telling me i have no space
Dec 10 04:12:06 <atlanta> GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Dec 10 04:12:29 <zsoc> hm
Dec 10 04:13:07 <sugardave> atlanta: yeah, you are now going to be inflating somebody's download count
Dec 10 04:13:42 <atlanta> ughh
Dec 10 04:13:46 <atlanta> this is gonna drive me nuts
Dec 10 04:13:52 <sugardave> oh wait
Dec 10 04:13:54 <sugardave> on the emu?
Dec 10 04:14:17 <CTLAdvance> hey Reality9110
Dec 10 04:14:24 <CTLAdvance> You watching in the background?
Dec 10 04:17:10 <reality9110> Watching what?
Dec 10 04:17:39 * sugardave looks around suspiciously.
Dec 10 04:20:48 <reality9110> What am I supposed to be watching?
Dec 10 04:37:01 <JangKro> sugardave, why not try virtual bread crumbs
Dec 10 04:37:36 <sugardave> JangKro: for what?
Dec 10 04:37:48 <JangKro> finding your way back ?
Dec 10 04:38:38 <sugardave> oh, that...nah, it's more of a "I should use this since I have it and should test it out" kind of thing...I find it lacking
Dec 10 04:39:16 <PreGame> bread crumbs attract ants
Dec 10 04:39:23 <JangKro> was just saying in the app catalog there's a vbreadcrumbs app that might do what u want
Dec 10 04:39:53 <sugardave> oh, I get it now
Dec 10 04:39:59 <sugardave> sorry...a little slow tonight :D
Dec 10 04:40:31 <sugardave> I'll check it out
Dec 10 04:42:32 <JangKro> I notice the webos quick install has sprint/bell downloads here: http://forums.precentral.net/canuck-software/206905-webos-quick-install-v2-96-a.html ... do you think the sprint one would work for my now unlocked but previously sprint phone ?
Dec 10 04:50:27 <JangKro> bye lal
Dec 10 04:50:29 <JangKro> *all
Dec 10 05:04:54 <rbredow> Anyone wanna help my play test my game?  I've got a version pretty close to ready for submission.
Dec 10 05:06:48 <rick_home> rbredow:  what is it?
Dec 10 05:07:33 <rbredow> It's called Paratroopers.  It's an action game where you try to drop paratroopers onto a target.  I have 25 different levels, global high scores, etc...
Dec 10 05:08:02 <rick_home> rbredow:   why not post it to precentral for testing as beta?
Dec 10 05:09:08 <rbredow> I might.  Looking for a little more limited testing first.  I don't yet have the splash screen and the other polish on it for anything more public.  Mostly looking for any remaining bugs and a little play testing if anyone was interested here.
Dec 10 05:11:03 <CTLAdvance> lol that sounds like one were working on called log drop
Dec 10 05:11:49 <rbredow> Oh no!  Hope we don't make something too similar.
Dec 10 05:11:57 <CTLAdvance> nah
Dec 10 05:12:19 <CTLAdvance> ours is based on logging, logs are picked up and dropped in a roped area
Dec 10 05:12:32 <rbredow> That does sound pretty different.
Dec 10 05:13:07 <CTLAdvance> its a bit more than that but thats the jist of it
Dec 10 05:13:34 <CTLAdvance> hoping to launch in about two weeks if we finish our first game soon
Dec 10 05:13:51 <rbredow> Cool.  What's your first game?
Dec 10 05:13:51 <CTLAdvance> The PC is great for beta testing if its needed
Dec 10 05:14:20 <CTLAdvance> all we can say on the first one at the moment is that it involves a snowman
Dec 10 05:14:33 <CTLAdvance> and its not a button
Dec 10 05:14:35 <CTLAdvance> :)
Dec 10 05:14:41 <rbredow> :)
Dec 10 05:15:11 <CTLAdvance> although a button that screams "Heh, IM A SNOW MAN!!!!!!" might get some downloads ;)
Dec 10 05:15:53 <CTLAdvance> sadly
Dec 10 05:16:41 <CTLAdvance> once your ready though it should be quick
Dec 10 05:16:52 <CTLAdvance> palm is pushing what seems to be a full approval a day
Dec 10 05:17:07 <sugardave> really, it's happening that quickly now?
Dec 10 05:17:09 <rbredow> That would be nice.  My last two apps took about 5-10 days to approve.
Dec 10 05:17:13 <sugardave> that's good news
Dec 10 05:17:18 * Adora beams a bit
Dec 10 05:17:24 <sugardave> Adora: hey!
Dec 10 05:17:33 <Adora> sugardave: hi  :)
Dec 10 05:17:41 <sugardave> Adora: I have a question about the automatic support scene thing
Dec 10 05:17:57 <CTLAdvance> I submitted one last night and it went in this evening
Dec 10 05:17:58 <Adora> I probably can't answer it, but shoot me with it
Dec 10 05:17:59 <sugardave> since it doesn't provide an app menu, will you still approve the app?
Dec 10 05:18:05 <Adora> yeah
Dec 10 05:18:08 <Adora> that's our bad
Dec 10 05:18:09 <sugardave> righteous
Dec 10 05:18:09 <CTLAdvance> well actually, 2 days ago, and went in yesterday evening
Dec 10 05:18:25 <Adora> and when we fix that, it should automatically start working again
Dec 10 05:18:30 <sugardave> awesome
Dec 10 05:18:58 * CTLAdvance hands Adora a box of tinfoil for all of her hard work approving apps
Dec 10 05:19:00 <Adora> we may have rejected a few before we realized what was going on, but now we're letting it slide
Dec 10 05:19:15 <Adora> CTLAdvance: :D
Dec 10 05:19:20 <sugardave> I think I will just put it in the reviewr notes that I'm using it
Dec 10 05:19:31 * Adora makes a little tinfoil house for everyone in the channel
Dec 10 05:19:33 <CTLAdvance> if you look closely there is another 50 dollar bill in the box some where ;)
Dec 10 05:19:39 <Adora> !!!!!!!!!!
Dec 10 05:19:40 <CTLAdvance> Thanks
Dec 10 05:19:42 * Adora takes all the houses back!
Dec 10 05:20:01 <Adora> sugardave: reviewer notes are AWESOME
Dec 10 05:20:06 * CTLAdvance achooooo blows the house down by accident
Dec 10 05:20:13 <Adora> the more you can put in there, the better
Dec 10 05:20:19 <sugardave> check
Dec 10 05:20:42 <reality9110> I'm still waiting for mine to come back from review
Dec 10 05:20:45 <CTLAdvance> Oh yeah that may be why my app went so quickly, it was similar to another I have in there
Dec 10 05:20:56 <CTLAdvance> and I noted it in the reviewer notes
Dec 10 05:21:05 <Adora> reality9110: what app?
Dec 10 05:21:17 <sugardave> I'm going to ask my handler if they can get this one through a little quickly...it's a holiday app and I waited too long to decide
Dec 10 05:21:29 <reality9110> Adora: RadioTime
Dec 10 05:21:41 <Adora> ahh
Dec 10 05:22:02 <Adora> that one's affected by our mysterious "can't download" bug
Dec 10 05:22:12 <reality9110> What?
Dec 10 05:22:15 <Adora> MOST of that has been resolved, but not all of it
Dec 10 05:22:26 <reality9110> What's the "can't download" bug?
Dec 10 05:22:40 <Adora> I guess I can say a bit a bit about it, since several guys in here have been affected by it
Dec 10 05:23:16 <Adora> but it's showing up in our review portal, but we can't download it
Dec 10 05:23:23 <reality9110> I would have hoped that the handler would have said something about it seeing as it's a contract work for a rather large website.
Dec 10 05:24:12 <Adora> it was escalated only a few hours ago, so you'll probably get something tomorrow
Dec 10 05:25:03 <reality9110> Palm's site says, "Being reviewed"
Dec 10 05:26:39 <Adora> this is the #1 most critial issue for engineering right now, so it should be resolved quickly
Dec 10 05:26:58 <Adora> reality9110: sorry, didn't mean to alarm you  =P
Dec 10 05:29:59 <reality9110> There's just a lot riding on this deal
Dec 10 05:32:06 <Adora> will you be around tomorrow?
Dec 10 05:32:41 <reality9110> In the evenings from around 8:30 PM EST until 12:00ish
Dec 10 05:32:46 <Adora> I can try to keep you updated on the status as I get it
Dec 10 05:45:11 <rbredow> Has anyone figured out how to get the palm-inspector to update when you aren't on the first scene?  A refresh doesn't seem to do it for me.
Dec 10 05:53:50 <CTLAdvance> Anyone on here using an obfuscator
Dec 10 05:59:18 <rbredow> I've been playing with Google's javascript compiler.  It seems to work on individual files, but I haven't had luck compiling them into one file (yet).
Dec 10 06:00:01 <dylanmei> closure?
Dec 10 06:00:09 <rbredow> Yes, closure.
Dec 10 06:00:16 <dylanmei> is it helpful for webos?
Dec 10 06:00:28 <CTLAdvance> you mean obfuscation?
Dec 10 06:00:53 <CTLAdvance> It protects your code to some degree from light weight hackers, and an annoyance for exp persons
Dec 10 06:01:08 <CTLAdvance> its basically the only line of defense we have
Dec 10 06:01:17 <rbredow> Seems like it could be.  It reduced my javascript files by about 50% in size.  Unfortunately, without compiling in prototype it won't compile any of my stuff with any of the advanced optimizations.
Dec 10 06:01:41 <CTLAdvance> try javascript-source.com obfuscator
Dec 10 06:01:47 <CTLAdvance> seems to work very well
Dec 10 06:04:32 <CTLAdvance> I recommend it if you dont want a million copycat apps in the system to compete, otherwise leave it open
Dec 10 06:31:27 <Adora> ahh snap
Dec 10 06:31:37 <Adora> does anyone know reality9110's real name?
Dec 10 06:31:45 <CTLAdvance> nope
Dec 10 06:31:49 <CTLAdvance> not I
Dec 10 06:31:50 <Adora> he's not affected by that issue, and I just totally freaked him out
Dec 10 06:32:07 <Adora> I think I found the same person in our database, but I'm not 100% sure
Dec 10 06:32:17 * Adora sleuths
Dec 10 06:32:30 * CTLAdvance screams in horror
Dec 10 06:32:34 <Adora> I need to email him
Dec 10 06:33:31 * Templarian thinks this is why he uses the same nick everywhere.
Dec 10 06:34:19 <CTLAdvance> hey templarian
Dec 10 06:38:41 <LoneStar34> anyone currently from Palm?
Dec 10 06:38:55 <CTLAdvance> yes
Dec 10 06:39:04 <CTLAdvance> I wish
Dec 10 06:39:11 <CTLAdvance> :D
Dec 10 06:39:13 <LoneStar34> k
Dec 10 06:39:15 <CTLAdvance> Adora is here from palm
Dec 10 06:39:40 <Adora> yeah, but I'm reeeeeeally trying to wrap up  :)
Dec 10 06:39:43 <CTLAdvance> but she is sleuthing around
Dec 10 06:39:44 <Adora> LoneStar34: what's up?
Dec 10 06:40:21 <LoneStar34> Adora:  i filled out an SDK survey,  and noticed once the survey is done, surverymonkey redirects to a spam site:
Dec 10 06:40:52 <LoneStar34> I am sure it is a quick fix for whom ever setup the survey
Dec 10 06:41:20 <Adora> eww
Dec 10 06:41:27 <LoneStar34> instead of redirecting to http://developer.palm.com it goes to http://www.http.com/;//developer.palm.com
Dec 10 06:41:40 <Adora> send that to chuq@palm.com
Dec 10 06:42:14 <LoneStar34> ok, cool, was gonna to that, just thought it would be faster here.  thanks, will email chuq
Dec 10 06:42:35 <Adora> it would be if it wasn't almost 11pm, hehehe
Dec 10 06:43:17 <Adora> OK
Dec 10 06:43:20 <Adora> FOR THE LOVE OF GOD
Dec 10 06:43:22 <Adora> I THINK I AM DONE
Dec 10 06:43:34 <Adora> ...except for the work I have to do at home
Dec 10 06:43:51 <Adora> gotta test something on a non-corp network
Dec 10 06:43:52 <Adora> @#(*$@(*
Dec 10 06:45:48 <LoneStar34> Adora: Good luck!
Dec 10 06:46:07 <Adora> LoneStar34: thanks!
Dec 10 06:48:11 <CTLAdvance> have a good night!
Dec 10 06:56:20 <sugardave> I can guess reality9110's first name
Dec 10 07:18:33 <rbredow> Anyone know the trick to get palm-inspector to work?  I'd love to be able to see the html that's getting generated.
Dec 10 07:20:48 * rbredow is sad to read "Reload in the inspector is not supported in this release" on the Palm Inspector page.
Dec 10 07:21:00 <rbredow> Sort of seems like you can't debug anything but the first screen that pops up then.
Dec 10 07:36:30 <kesne> sugardave!
Dec 10 07:37:44 <kesne> CTLAdvance!
Dec 10 08:48:19 <Templarian> Adora: Your not at work, but who ever wrote that survey put a typo in the redirect not a big deal it just redirects to "http://http/;//developer.palm.com" at the end of the survey.
Dec 10 08:49:24 <Templarian> Also I made sure to use as much sarcasm while filling out the survey as possible. It made it quite enjoyable.
Dec 10 12:35:08 <atlanta> good morning
Dec 10 12:37:03 <Bmyers> morn'n atlanta
Dec 10 12:38:59 <atlanta> how are u
Dec 10 12:39:14 <Bmyers> just got up. need coffee..
Dec 10 12:39:18 <Bmyers> u?
Dec 10 12:45:02 * istojic_ perks up
Dec 10 12:45:27 <istojic_> somebody mentioned coffee? i need more of it. there's too much blood in my coffee-stream...
Dec 10 12:51:06 <atlanta> just got to work
Dec 10 12:51:10 <atlanta> ORANGE JUICE MAN HERE
Dec 10 12:51:32 <atlanta> oh and im reading up on the lovely YQL
Dec 10 12:51:37 <atlanta> thinking aobut using it in my next app
Dec 10 12:53:33 <Bmyers> url for yql?
Dec 10 12:56:32 <atlanta> http://developer.yahoo.com/yql/
Dec 10 12:59:14 <Bmyers> interesting. whats the advantage u see over str8 html5 sql on the device?
Dec 10 13:02:00 <atlanta> no silly its not to store stuff it to centrally grab data
Dec 10 13:02:10 <atlanta> go here
Dec 10 13:02:11 <atlanta> https://developer.yahoo.com/yql/console/
Dec 10 13:02:29 <atlanta> u can store stuff but thats not my objective
Dec 10 13:09:14 <Bmyers> o, you want to get at data elsewhere..
Dec 10 13:16:30 <atlanta> instead of scraping
Dec 10 13:16:35 <atlanta> it comes in handy
Dec 10 13:16:43 <atlanta> and u dont have to go  through any other sites api
Dec 10 13:16:53 <atlanta> http://icant.co.uk/goohoobi/
Dec 10 13:17:00 <atlanta> check that out
Dec 10 13:17:05 <atlanta> he made it in yql
Dec 10 13:17:07 <atlanta> pretty neat
Dec 10 13:24:59 <atlanta> they even have a facebook api
Dec 10 13:25:04 <atlanta>  that may do so good
Dec 10 13:25:11 <atlanta> compared to facebook ugly ass api
Dec 10 13:25:29 <Bmyers> looks like fun
Dec 10 13:26:22 <atlanta> yup yup
Dec 10 13:26:37 <atlanta> im just surfing through ajaxian they got a few cool things over there
Dec 10 13:26:44 <atlanta> trying to get a idea for the next app
Dec 10 13:31:12 <Bmyers> how about a twitter client?
Dec 10 13:31:19 <atlanta> to many of those
Dec 10 13:31:24 <Bmyers> jk
Dec 10 13:31:30 <atlanta> lmfaoo
Dec 10 13:31:32 <atlanta> silly
Dec 10 13:49:22 <atlanta> anyone tried
Dec 10 13:49:22 <atlanta> http://www.effectgames.com/effect/games/crystalgalaxy/
Dec 10 13:49:22 <atlanta> on the pre
Dec 10 14:05:53 <reality9110> If an app is rejected, shouldn't there be an explanation as to why it was?
Dec 10 14:10:26 <CTLAdvance> The reviewer should havesent you an email
Dec 10 14:10:29 <CTLAdvance> However
Dec 10 14:12:37 <Bmyers> u get rejected for an app Doc?
Dec 10 14:13:09 <reality9110> Yeah
Dec 10 14:15:42 <Bmyers> RT?
Dec 10 14:16:55 <reality9110> Yeah
Dec 10 14:17:01 <reality9110> I mean...what the hell?
Dec 10 14:18:41 <Bmyers> i'm sure there must be a reason on the way to your email
Dec 10 14:18:55 <Bmyers> busy time of year, give it a few..
Dec 10 14:19:09 <Bmyers> I cant think of a one but..
Dec 10 14:19:28 <Bmyers> ping Adora perhaps.. she seems to be around..
Dec 10 14:20:53 <reality9110> Last night she said that they weren't even able to download my application for review
Dec 10 14:22:18 <Bmyers> well that would slow down the process for sure..
Dec 10 14:24:01 <reality9110> Irritating
Dec 10 14:39:15 <Bmyers> i guess Docs not having a good day.
Dec 10 14:48:31 <bryanroth> anyone know if and when there will be a fix for app ratings not updating?
Dec 10 14:54:12 <CTLAdvance> Anyone noticethat the download numbers arent changing on new apps?
Dec 10 14:54:50 <CTLAdvance> For example new from last night still say 0, yet they have reviews
Dec 10 14:58:07 <bryanroth> CTLAdvance: Yeah, that's what I noticed.
Dec 10 14:58:21 <bryanroth> CTLAdvance: Download and ratings aren't updating.
Dec 10 15:35:31 <sugardav1> damn, if reality9110 comes back, someone should tell him that Adora thinks she mistook him for someone else
Dec 10 15:46:03 <webOSdev> Anyone run into a problem where calling 'addSystemRedirects()' on a WebView widget results in an error:  "Cannot read property 'redirects' of undefined"?  I dont see any related articles in the forums.  It looks like a call to Mojo.loadJSONFile("/usr/palm/command-resource-handlers.json") is returning null, even though through novaterm I see the file exists.
Dec 10 15:47:10 <sugardave> is that path part of the app's sandbox?
Dec 10 15:48:18 <webOSdev> the path is not in the app sandbox, but in the normal webOS file system
Dec 10 15:48:24 <webOSdev> gets shipped with the pre
Dec 10 15:48:32 <sugardave> probably not going to be able to read it, then
Dec 10 15:48:52 <webOSdev> so they dont let you read files outside the app dir
Dec 10 15:49:05 <lyht> why would my app not be putting stuff in the logs? I have { "logLevel": 99 }, which I verified by looking in the app directory on the phone.
Dec 10 15:49:08 <sugardave> the app dir, and some others that are detailed somewhere
Dec 10 15:49:18 <lyht> It does on the emulator, but not the phone
Dec 10 15:49:29 <sugardave> lyht: on the device, only Mojo.Log.error works (if that)
Dec 10 15:49:41 <sugardave> I never get logging off my phone
Dec 10 15:50:01 <webOSdev> strange that the WebView widget provides a visible method call to a function that can't work for you since it references a file outside your scope
Dec 10 15:50:23 <sugardave> webOSdev: I'm just speculating, I know that there are certain paths you can access, and not others
Dec 10 15:50:33 <webOSdev> ahh... k
Dec 10 15:50:37 <sugardave> /usr/palm might be one, but I don't think so
Dec 10 15:50:39 <lyht> sugardave: really? like a forced logLevel 0? Why would they do that, I wonder?
Dec 10 15:50:51 <sugardave> lyht: not sure, but it bothers the hell out of me
Dec 10 15:51:17 <lyht> no doubt.
Dec 10 15:56:05 <sugardave> lyht: I think console.log works, but can't remember for sure...I basically abandoned trying to get logging off the device
Dec 10 15:56:31 <lyht> what is console.log?
Dec 10 15:57:23 <sugardave> a less-featured version of Mojo.Log...console.log('some text');
Dec 10 15:57:32 <sugardave> should write to /var/log/messages
Dec 10 15:58:05 <lyht> i see. At that point, I may just use Mojo.Log.error()
Dec 10 15:58:13 <sugardave> yep
Dec 10 15:58:18 <lyht> If I have to take the code back out anyway
Dec 10 16:03:55 * AtomicPlayboy lives.
Dec 10 16:29:38 <stennant> atomicplayboy: you on?
Dec 10 16:30:26 <AtomicPlayboy> stennant Yes
Dec 10 16:32:02 <stennant> atomicplayboy: do i tried the luna send command to run the web app for google
Dec 10 16:32:05 <stennant> it failed
Dec 10 16:59:54 <sugardave> php/mysql people: if your query is an insert, you don't have to do mysql_free_result?
Dec 10 17:00:45 <Templarian> sugardave: correct.
Dec 10 17:00:49 <sugardave> thank you
Dec 10 17:01:53 <Templarian> (technically you could, but really not needed)
Dec 10 17:02:04 <sugardave> ah, so it won't error then?  good to know
Dec 10 17:04:03 <Templarian> I forgot mysql can return information on an insert so, but meh you're probably not doing that and I don't think that information is a result variable.
Dec 10 17:04:04 <bryanroth> any idea what's going on with star ratings and download counts not updating in the App Catalog?
Dec 10 17:05:16 <sugardave> Templarian: nah, this is a fire and forget insert
Dec 10 17:05:36 <sugardave> bryanroth: I think they're doing some work to move the numbers to the dev portal
Dec 10 17:05:42 <sugardave> not sure, though
Dec 10 17:06:52 <bryanroth> sugardave: ah, I see, thanks!
Dec 10 17:09:44 <reality9110> sugardave: RT was rejected
Dec 10 17:14:30 <sugardave> reality9110: I saw that
Dec 10 17:14:49 <sugardave> but after you left last night, Adora thought she might have mistaken you for someone else re: can't download the app
Dec 10 17:15:03 <sugardave> reality9110: did you get your email of reasons?
Dec 10 17:16:21 <reality9110> Nope
Dec 10 17:16:44 <sugardave> bummer...should get one sone
Dec 10 17:16:46 <sugardave> soon
Dec 10 17:17:02 * sugardave is trying to quickly add a rudimentary nduid tracker to Yule Log.
Dec 10 17:17:02 <reality9110> Hopefully.
Dec 10 17:18:24 <sugardave> it's probably something simple
Dec 10 17:30:59 <sugardave> hehe, if you have a MySQL table named 'keys' you MUST use the ` backticks around the name or your crap won't work
Dec 10 17:42:00 <Templarian> You should by convention also, but people are lazy.
Dec 10 17:53:06 <sugardave> also good to know
Dec 10 17:55:43 <lyht> I know I am lazy, so I use SQLyog to build all my queries, cause it decent syntax highlighting, and I know when I am using a key word, and when I had better use back-ticks.
Dec 10 17:56:02 <lyht> cause it has decent...
Dec 10 18:03:46 <dBsooner> hey reality9110: I was reading earlier that Adora may have mistaken you for someone else last night.
Dec 10 18:03:51 <dBsooner> I was just passing on the message.
Dec 10 18:08:17 <svetter> good day everyone
Dec 10 18:09:15 <sugardave> hello
Dec 10 18:33:05 <sugardave> hmmm....$0.99 or $1.43 (or whatever the number is for $1 per app to the dev)?  What do you guys think?
Dec 10 18:33:59 <yetdog> honestly, my opinion: and it just might be my own mind - when i see a price like that, i just think it looks goofy
Dec 10 18:34:07 <yetdog> does it impact my decision to buy? ultimately not
Dec 10 18:34:28 <yetdog> and good morning, all :)
Dec 10 18:35:04 <sugardave> yetdog: yep, I see that point
Dec 10 18:36:25 <Rick_work> ANyone here use Depot?
Dec 10 18:38:02 <sugardave> Rick_work: no, I just use sqlite
Dec 10 18:38:21 <reality9110> Rick_work: yes
Dec 10 18:38:34 <LoneStar34> GM to all
Dec 10 18:38:44 <sugardave> Rick_work: your opinion on app pricing....$0.99 or $1.43?
Dec 10 18:38:58 <Rick_work> what app sugardave
Dec 10 18:39:03 <sugardave> Yule Log, no ads
Dec 10 18:39:12 <natenrb9> rick_work: I have used depot
Dec 10 18:39:13 <Rick_work> $143
Dec 10 18:39:15 <svetter> hey there. I wrote an application for my website using JavaScript and HTML. Whats the easiest way to learn how to turn that into a WebOS application? Are there any good tutorial / teaching websites you guys could recommend?
Dec 10 18:39:18 <natenrb9> works well, and easy
Dec 10 18:39:41 <Rick_work> reality9110 natenrb9  any of you have any idea what the BUCKET is used for in depot?
Dec 10 18:39:52 <Rick_work> I can't figure any purpose and I'm trying to work on docs.
Dec 10 18:40:13 <LoneStar34> svetter: alot of your exisisting javascript should work on webOS
Dec 10 18:40:15 <Rick_work> natenrb9  it works as long as you have small, simple data.  I just use sql. That ALWAYS works.  :-)
Dec 10 18:40:28 <Rick_work> svetter  I have a couple of suggestions.
Dec 10 18:40:34 <reality9110> Rick_work: A bucket holds information.  A key defines what that information is.
Dec 10 18:41:06 <svetter> I guess I just need to learn how to transfer my data to the WebOS framework correctly?
Dec 10 18:41:09 <reality9110> So, you could have a bucket with a few keys in it
Dec 10 18:41:19 <natenrb9> yeah
Dec 10 18:41:21 <reality9110> And a database with a few buckets in it
Dec 10 18:41:29 <natenrb9> each object stored has its own key
Dec 10 18:41:51 <Rick_work> svetter  see http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Tutorials_webOS_Porting_Older_App
Dec 10 18:42:08 <Rick_work> and its example at  http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Tutorials_webOS_Porting_Older_App/example
Dec 10 18:42:35 <svetter> thanks a lot!
Dec 10 18:43:28 <natenrb9> I think each depot is a bucket…I don't think the depot can have multiple buckets, but I'm not sure...
Dec 10 18:43:44 <Bmyers_qwerty> just use sql
Dec 10 18:43:50 <Rick_work> well, here's the thing....
Dec 10 18:44:06 <natenrb9> bmyers: read the whole dialog
Dec 10 18:44:07 <reality9110> natenrb9: I think each depot can hold multiple buckets
Dec 10 18:44:08 * sugardave agrees with Bmyers_qwerty.
Dec 10 18:44:13 <Rick_work> the REMOVE method accepts a bucket.
Dec 10 18:44:15 <Bmyers_qwerty> i know..
Dec 10 18:44:18 <Rick_work> but the ADD method doesn't
Dec 10 18:44:31 <Rick_work> https://developer.palm.com/palm-sdk/jsdoc/symbols/Mojo.Depot.html
Dec 10 18:44:39 <natenrb9> yeah…and didn't understand that either
Dec 10 18:44:47 <natenrb9> I didn't
Dec 10 18:44:54 <Rick_work> so what possible purpose does the bucket have?
Dec 10 18:45:44 <Rick_work> Bmyers_qwerty  I acould not agree more, just use sql,  however, I am writing a document to explain the storage API's, and I have to include the depot calls, even if I say twenty-seven times, "use sql"
Dec 10 18:45:58 <Rick_work> and there's this freaking bucket parameter on remove.  :-)
Dec 10 18:46:20 <Bmyers_qwerty> didnt mean to speak out of line..
Dec 10 18:46:27 <natenrb9> rick_work: is this for your own website?
Dec 10 18:46:30 <natenrb9> or a book?
Dec 10 18:46:51 <Rick_work> """ I am not at liberty to discuss what this is for. """"
Dec 10 18:47:03 <natenrb9> lol
Dec 10 18:47:39 <Bmyers_qwerty> i promise to burn this notebook after reading your reply Rick_work
Dec 10 18:47:55 <Bmyers_qwerty> would like to anyway..
Dec 10 18:48:09 <Rick_work> http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddpk538d_77dmvgs4kd
Dec 10 18:49:12 <sugardave> Adora: be on the lookout for Yule Log, coming soon to a reviewer queue near you
Dec 10 18:50:47 <atlanta> hee'''''ssss back
Dec 10 18:51:25 <LoneStar34> Building an app, where need a top header to be scrollable horizontally with a finger movement., but need to keep everything other than the header from scrolling, any ideas?
Dec 10 18:54:05 <Rick_work> sure
Dec 10 18:54:08 <LoneStar34> grammer correctio "where a top header needs to be scrollable"
Dec 10 18:54:08 <Rick_work> use two scrollers
Dec 10 18:54:22 <natenrb9> lonestar: you use this type setup: this.controller.setupWidget('vert_scroller', {}, this.vertScrollerModel);
Dec 10 18:54:24 <atlanta> wsup Rick_work
Dec 10 18:54:26 <natenrb9> that is vertical
Dec 10 18:54:38 <natenrb9> but there is a horizontal option as well
Dec 10 18:55:06 <natenrb9> search the forums/developer site - I have a vertical scroller in one of my apps, works great
Dec 10 18:55:37 <Rick_work> I have apps with three scrollers on screen.  Two different verticals and a free-scroller
Dec 10 18:56:07 <natenrb9> but you are probably not at liberty to discuss :)
Dec 10 18:56:53 <ronino> hi
Dec 10 18:57:03 <atlanta> hello
Dec 10 18:57:42 <ronino> recurring events on my Google calendar appear only if I choose "Google" on the top right select list and then only as shadows, why is that?
Dec 10 18:57:44 <ronino> and what to do?
Dec 10 18:58:18 <LoneStar34> natenrb9: you have a forum thread describing the vertical scroller?
Dec 10 18:58:30 <chuqui> OMG, rick is starting to sound like MEEEEE!
Dec 10 18:59:00 <Rick_work> there's a reason for that.
Dec 10 18:59:12 <natenrb9> lonestar: there is a forum thread or a article on it, that is how I was able to figure it out…can't remember…just do a search
Dec 10 18:59:19 <chuqui> hopefully they'll find a drug to cure it before it gets too bad, Rick
Dec 10 18:59:24 <atlanta> chuqui: by any chance is the api going to allow more than 1 phone number for prepoulation in the messaging app
Dec 10 18:59:24 <atlanta> ?
Dec 10 18:59:29 <svetter> :( :( :( OMG
Dec 10 18:59:37 <svetter> JSLINT just made me cry :-D
Dec 10 18:59:43 <Rick_work> hahahahaha
Dec 10 18:59:47 <Rick_work> Yep, it'll do that.
Dec 10 18:59:49 <Rick_work> :-)
Dec 10 18:59:51 <natenrb9> atlanta: yes…that would be nice…someday...
Dec 10 18:59:55 <Rick_work> but it's GOOD for you !!!!
Dec 10 18:59:58 <atlanta> indeed it would
Dec 10 19:00:07 <chuqui> yes, it would.
Dec 10 19:00:15 <natenrb9> I'm sure its "on the list"
Dec 10 19:00:15 <chuqui> do me  a favor?
Dec 10 19:00:26 <natenrb9> along with hundreds of other features...
Dec 10 19:00:27 <chuqui> if it's not in the forum, post about it there and send me a link? I'll file an RFE on it
Dec 10 19:00:42 <atlanta> YAYY!
Dec 10 19:00:43 <atlanta> ok
Dec 10 19:01:10 <natenrb9> chuqui: did you just make "RFE" up to sound legit? :)
Dec 10 19:01:21 <LoneStar34> natenrb9:  there is an example of what I have in mind, http://uoid.me/scroll1
Dec 10 19:01:31 <chuqui> um.... maybe? no. NO. (maybe?)
Dec 10 19:01:36 <natenrb9> lol
Dec 10 19:01:57 <natenrb9> lonestar: oh, you want it to auto-scroll
Dec 10 19:02:01 <LoneStar34> anyone know how a president at war in 2 countries is awarded the nobel "Peace" prize...
Dec 10 19:02:04 <natenrb9> well, good luck with that
Dec 10 19:02:08 <sugardave> the dreaded 'enhancement request'...at my company that's pretty much a "not going to ever happen"
Dec 10 19:02:55 <LoneStar34> natenrb9:  needs to look similar but manually scrollable with finger movement.
Dec 10 19:03:13 <djk1> This timezone problem is annoying for sync with Exchange anyone know if the fix has been figured out?
Dec 10 19:03:29 <sugardave> LoneStar34: you can wrap any div with a scroller, and independently set them for horiz/vert/both scrolling
Dec 10 19:04:47 <LoneStar34> sugardave:  do you where to find an example?
Dec 10 19:05:08 <natenrb9> lonestar: http://developer.palm.com/palm-sdk/jsdoc/symbols/Mojo.Widget.html#.Scroller
Dec 10 19:05:13 <sugardave> well, I just used the docs
Dec 10 19:05:15 <sugardave> that one
Dec 10 19:05:48 <LoneStar34> ok thanks,
Dec 10 19:05:56 <sugardave> LoneStar34: AND in the Style Matters app....all the collapsible divs are in a scroller
Dec 10 19:06:03 <sugardave> excuse me, code example divs
Dec 10 19:06:38 <LoneStar34> sugar dave and natenrb9: thanks
Dec 10 19:06:42 <sugardave> np
Dec 10 19:07:02 <natenrb9> yep
Dec 10 19:07:33 <LoneStar34> chuqui: does one get an email regardless if the submitted app is approved or denied?
Dec 10 19:08:20 <natenrb9> lonestar: if approved…no email...
Dec 10 19:08:35 <yetdog> really natenrb9?
Dec 10 19:08:43 <yetdog> so i submitted an app thru chuq a week or so ago
Dec 10 19:08:47 <yetdog> one day it just might show up in the catalog?
Dec 10 19:09:09 <natenrb9> yetdog: you have to be approved as a developer first
Dec 10 19:09:16 <Adora> sugardave: will do!  re: yule log
Dec 10 19:09:18 <sugardave> I guess so...haven't been lucky enough to not have one rejected at least once
Dec 10 19:09:19 <natenrb9> than you are granted access to the developer portal
Dec 10 19:09:19 <yetdog> ah duh :) hoping to get that email soon :)
Dec 10 19:09:23 <sugardave> Adora: cool, thanks!
Dec 10 19:09:24 <natenrb9> than you resubmt
Dec 10 19:09:26 <chuqui> the business people are still behind a bit in getting the the process going, and I'm a bit behind in confirming submissions to the beta program. I need to get the latest one out today.
Dec 10 19:09:49 <chuqui> the beta program is still "pretty manual" so it takes some time to twist the knobs and push the buttons.
Dec 10 19:10:00 <natenrb9> than you check the portal constantly to see if it is approved yet… (that's what I do...)
Dec 10 19:10:05 <natenrb9> lol
Dec 10 19:10:10 <lyht> yetdog: after you are approved, you submit it again through the portal...
Dec 10 19:10:11 <yetdog> no complaints at all, chuqui. the mere communication is satisfying enough to be honest. gives it a small community feeling
Dec 10 19:10:27 <yetdog> this channel alone has fired up my excitement for the platform so much
Dec 10 19:10:32 <Rick_work> or you set a timer event to ajax request the portal object and sms you when your app publishes.
Dec 10 19:10:37 <chuqui> yeah, but we need to keep improving our communications. we're better, but we have work to do.
Dec 10 19:10:50 <natenrb9> rick_work: lol, who are you?
Dec 10 19:11:18 <natenrb9> chuqui: yes…some communication improvement would be greatly appreciated!
Dec 10 19:11:25 <sugardave> Rick_work: nice, got an example? ;)
Dec 10 19:11:30 <chuqui> or you can just refreshing the catalog on yor phone...
Dec 10 19:11:43 <Rick_work> http://www.facebook.com/rboatright
Dec 10 19:11:47 <yetdog> i LOVE the palmnewapps twitter feed
Dec 10 19:11:54 <yetdog> that's a great idea
Dec 10 19:12:04 <natenrb9> rick_work: ha! nice
Dec 10 19:13:12 <Rick_work> palmnewapps twitter feed would be nice if there was a portal to the appcat FROM THE WEB, which there isn't  :-(
Dec 10 19:13:52 <yetdog> rick - yes
Dec 10 19:13:57 <yetdog> another thing, CHANGELOG
Dec 10 19:14:15 <yetdog> should be a separate row or option in the catalog to view details on what the update changes
Dec 10 19:14:20 <Adora> +1 changelog
Dec 10 19:14:23 <yetdog> supplied by the dev, of course
Dec 10 19:14:27 <LoneStar34> sugardave: "code example divs" is located in the SDK?
Dec 10 19:15:08 <Rick_work> LoneStar34  the "stylematters" app is in the SDK,  install it on your emulator and phone.
Dec 10 19:15:17 <istojic_> stylematters kicks ass
Dec 10 19:15:35 <yetdog> i find it runs better on my phone. horizontal scrolling doesnt always work in emu
Dec 10 19:15:43 <yetdog> so sometimes you cant see all the code
Dec 10 19:15:58 <Rick_work> let lemketron know when you have an example and send it to him.
Dec 10 19:27:22 <webOSdev> Anyone know how to close a service handle?  Using palm-worm I'm seeing each time I make a service request to location services a new service handle is created and not released until the scene is closed.  This is a problem for a long running scene.
Dec 10 19:27:34 <m55> Is there anything else to list item model template other than #{varName} or can you iterate through lists and what not?
Dec 10 19:28:43 <yetdog> m55: depends on what is in each row's array
Dec 10 19:29:16 <yetdog> if there are multiple items in each row, you reference them by name
Dec 10 19:30:18 <m55> well in each item in the list model, theres an info array that contains a variable amount of strings
Dec 10 19:30:34 <m55> in django, you can do a foreach for example
Dec 10 19:30:38 <m55> and then output them
Dec 10 19:31:06 <yetdog> hmm..not sure about the variable amount. my experience is in json data input into a list object
Dec 10 19:31:16 <m55> or is it just #{var} and #{var-} w/ palm
Dec 10 19:31:16 <yetdog> so i have a static amount of rows, and they're each named sometihng
Dec 10 19:38:10 <amoffat> hi.  i'm using komodo edit.  how can i copy a directory tree to a folder without making a live copy?
Dec 10 19:38:17 <amoffat> i want an *actual* copy
Dec 10 19:38:33 <AtomicPlayboy> ping chuqui
Dec 10 19:38:47 <Rick_work> amoffat  close the project  copy the tree into your src directory, reopen the project it will import it
Dec 10 19:38:49 <chuqui> pong atomicplayboy
Dec 10 19:38:56 <AtomicPlayboy> ow.
Dec 10 19:39:34 <amoffat> Rick_work, but there's no way to do it inside of komodo correct?  why would a live folder "link" be the preferable copy action?
Dec 10 19:40:04 <Rick_work> God alone knows.  I didn't write komodo. There probably IS a way to do it, but I have no idea what it is.
Dec 10 19:40:25 <amoffat> Rick_work, hehe :)  ok, thanks for your help
Dec 10 19:57:30 <yetdog> i just got my email from Palm developer marketing for my first app! !!! :)
Dec 10 19:58:06 <Rick_work> Chuqi comes through whith those knobs and buttons.
Dec 10 19:58:17 <LoneStar34> nice!
Dec 10 20:01:45 <yetdog> confused because i submitted the app thru the email on palm's dev site, AND thru chuq. I explained that in my reply so hopefully we'll get on the same page soon haha
Dec 10 20:24:22 <sugardave> why are our names different colors in the webosdev forum now?
Dec 10 20:24:33 <sugardave> and what is the significance?
Dec 10 20:25:05 <sugardave> chuqui: ^^^^^^^^
Dec 10 20:27:16 <yetdog> i think i read something about that in the FAQ list
Dec 10 20:28:39 <sugardave> a forum faq?
Dec 10 20:29:08 <yetdog> i think so . i think i came upon it last night
Dec 10 20:29:41 * sugardave looks.
Dec 10 20:30:59 <LoneStar34> I think it means who is cooler.... jk
Dec 10 20:31:05 <LoneStar34> no idea
Dec 10 20:34:13 <torchie> I figure there's gotta be at least one sprint user that got a webos phone from amazon here right?
Dec 10 20:35:54 <sugardave> okay, I suck...I cannot find the forum FAQ
Dec 10 20:36:00 <torchie> on amazon you can get a pixi for $25, are there extra fees if you're already on contract or is it just straight up $25?
Dec 10 20:36:19 <sugardave> torchie: that deal isn't for a new contract?
Dec 10 20:36:31 <bryanroth> It looks like your username turns turquoise if you're a "Senior Forum Member"
Dec 10 20:36:37 * bryanroth shrugs
Dec 10 20:36:38 <torchie> I dunno
Dec 10 20:37:36 <torchie> I got a treo pro about 7 months ago so it's not exactly "upgrade time" but
Dec 10 20:38:07 <sugardave> bryanroth: thanks....still frustrated I can't find it :D
Dec 10 20:38:09 <torchie> it's upgrade time
Dec 10 20:38:38 <bryanroth> sugardave: I just went to your profile via the forums and saw that you belonged to the "Senior Forum Members" group
Dec 10 20:39:23 <sugardave> ah, I see...and I finally found the FAQs....duh
Dec 10 20:39:26 <torchie> hmm
Dec 10 20:39:37 <torchie> I think it is straight up $25, since amazon lists it as $300
Dec 10 20:42:20 <bryanroth> Senior Forum Member -> Senior Forum Members are members we recognize at the top contributors and members who have committed their time and energy to helping make this community thrive.
Dec 10 20:42:39 <bryanroth> That's why your username is that green/blue color.
Dec 10 20:43:44 <sugardave> bryanroth: got it, thanks :D
Dec 10 20:44:12 <bryanroth> sugardave: lol, sorry...
Dec 10 20:47:03 <torchie> is homebrew discussion alright?
Dec 10 20:47:32 <lyht> sure, torchie. If you move into an area that aint, we'll tell ya
Dec 10 20:48:59 <torchie> cool
Dec 10 20:49:23 <torchie> well I'm considering pixi and was wondering about how well homebrew things worked with it
Dec 10 20:50:14 <torchie> the terminal sort of applications (vi, nano, etc.) run independently of webOS' window system right?
Dec 10 20:50:39 <rwhitby> torchie: webos-internals supports pixi just as well as pre
Dec 10 20:50:49 <lyht> Yah, everything should be the same.
Dec 10 20:51:26 <lyht> Except those apps that need the full screen... they have to support the pre directly.
Dec 10 20:51:31 <lyht> I mean support the pixi
Dec 10 20:51:52 <torchie> alright
Dec 10 20:53:13 <lyht> Probably the only thing you can't do in the under-pinings of the pixi that you can do on the pre, is set up a way to ssh into the phone over wifi... cause it doesn't have it of course.
Dec 10 20:53:22 <torchie> of course
Dec 10 20:53:28 <torchie> not sure if I'm gonna miss wifi
Dec 10 20:53:34 <torchie> definitely gonna miss microSD though
Dec 10 20:53:48 <lyht> yah... I wish I had it on the pre.
Dec 10 20:54:01 <lyht> Almost more that blue-tooth file transfer.
Dec 10 20:54:04 <LoneStar34> lyht: pixi does not have WIFI?
Dec 10 20:54:05 <torchie> the single advantage of the treo pro
Dec 10 20:54:08 <lyht> (that = than)
Dec 10 20:54:10 <sugardave> LoneStar34: nope
Dec 10 20:54:21 <lyht> LoneStar34: correct. no wifi on pixi.
Dec 10 20:54:26 * sugardave also wishes the Pre had a microSD slot.
Dec 10 20:54:27 <torchie> speaking of that, is there a file explorer?
Dec 10 20:54:37 <lyht> yes, in home brew.
Dec 10 20:54:40 <LoneStar34> makes sense for the price difference....
Dec 10 20:54:41 <sugardave> torchie: ssh :P
Dec 10 20:55:07 <torchie> ssh the phone into itself?
Dec 10 20:55:41 <gkatsev> torchie: internalz from preware
Dec 10 20:57:17 <lyht> http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/internalz
Dec 10 20:58:27 <torchie> ooh, homebrew apps directory
Dec 10 21:00:10 <torchie> I gotta make sure the transition from winmo to webos isn't painful
Dec 10 21:00:23 <torchie> then again, the transition from winmo to anything else is most likely a pleasant experience
Dec 10 21:02:24 <torchie> text editor + file explorer and I should be good to go
Dec 10 21:03:40 <lyht> other than vi in a terminal, there is really nothing in the way of a text editor.
Dec 10 21:04:05 <lyht> or pico or whatever you install in the unixness
Dec 10 21:05:01 <torchie> I'm a bit confused on the terminal-- does it work with cards and everything else?
Dec 10 21:05:14 <lyht> yup. opens it's own card.
Dec 10 21:05:42 <torchie> :O
Dec 10 21:05:44 <torchie> hottt
Dec 10 21:06:40 <lyht> yah, it is nifty. I sometimes watch the logs of my apps with that. I keep it open and see what they are doing while I flit around the phone.
Dec 10 21:07:33 <torchie> my god I need to get a pixi immediately
Dec 10 21:07:48 <lyht> Anyone else have problems with the depot somtimes not saving changes, even though it claims it was successful?
Dec 10 21:12:14 <Rick_work> Since I don't use depot, no.
Dec 10 21:12:26 <Rick_work> Straight sql just isn't that hard.
Dec 10 21:13:14 <lyht> :P yah, but I am not feeling up to writing in a converter so people dont lose their settings... or can I access the same data through sql?
Dec 10 21:13:34 <Rick_work> nope you would need a converter.
Dec 10 21:14:21 <lyht> I might have to. The depot seems buggy. It might be easier to go back to cookies. Dont have that much data.
Dec 10 21:18:18 <sugardave> sqlite rocks
Dec 10 21:18:20 <sugardave> love it
Dec 10 21:18:47 <sugardave> write wrappers and you'll never think of depot again
Dec 10 21:21:16 <Rick_work> depot sucks dead bunnies.
Dec 10 21:21:34 <Rick_work> and I say that as generously as I can find a way to.  It's far more polite than I think.
Dec 10 21:21:41 <sugardave> heh
Dec 10 21:21:46 <sugardave> glad I never tried to use it
Dec 10 21:21:55 <Rick_work> you tell it to delete, it doesn't
Dec 10 21:22:01 <Rick_work> you tell it to remove, it doesn't
Dec 10 21:22:12 <Rick_work> you tell it to change this key to that value, it fails.
Dec 10 21:22:13 <Rick_work> It sucks
Dec 10 21:24:18 <sugardave> and you decided to write some docs out of the goodness of your heart?  need Karma?
Dec 10 21:28:41 <Rick_work> http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/212660-preader-ebook-reader-palm-doc-files-12.html#post2088227
Dec 10 21:28:47 <Rick_work> as though we needed more proof.
Dec 10 21:30:51 * lyht picking up the bullet to bite it
Dec 10 21:31:41 <sugardave> lyht: I've got some really simple stuff about sqlite on the wikis that are good starting places
Dec 10 21:32:38 <sugardave> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Mojo_Storage_Database
Dec 10 21:35:13 <sugardave> that page probably needs to be looked at again, I believe they've moved the directories where the dbs get stored
Dec 10 21:45:38 <lyht> sugardave: thanks. The docs on palm are lacking!
Dec 10 21:46:54 <sugardave> slightly ;)
Dec 10 21:47:17 <lemketron> sugardave: logging should be better in 1.3.5 sdk (palm-log has some new options to enable non-err logging on the device)
Dec 10 21:47:49 <sugardave> when you want to do cloud stuff, there's: http://webos101.com/Getting_JSON_From_An_External_MySQL_Database
Dec 10 21:47:56 <lemketron> (in other words, "we're listening"!)  ;-)
Dec 10 21:47:59 <sugardave> lemketron: cool, that will be helpful
Dec 10 21:48:00 <lyht> If I am dealing with json objects, I have to Object.toJSON(myval) before sticking it into the sqlite table, and eval it on pulling it out, right?
Dec 10 21:48:26 <lyht> lemketron: that rocks!
Dec 10 21:48:30 <sugardave> lyht: yes, or have discrete columns for your object properties
Dec 10 21:48:37 <sugardave> and store them that way
Dec 10 21:48:50 <lyht> which no doubt would be cleaner, but more work at this point.
Dec 10 21:48:55 <sugardave> yes
Dec 10 21:49:05 <lyht> size limits for TEXT datatype?
Dec 10 21:49:17 <sugardave> not sure, check sqlite.org
Dec 10 21:56:45 <m55> if you have a list data model like this {items:[{name:'hi
Dec 10 21:57:14 <m55> {items:[{name:'hi',info:['addr','phone']}]}
Dec 10 21:57:59 <m55> and you want to place the first item inside a list-item template (#{name} style inserts), how would you specify the first item?
Dec 10 21:58:21 * sugardave is still avoiding lists.
Dec 10 22:01:40 <lyht> m55, I dont know if I understand completely how the lists work, but when you assign the model to the list when you call setupWidget, doesn't it just stick it in there in order?
Dec 10 22:03:45 <m55> yeah but for list items, you can specify a template for each row
Dec 10 22:03:48 <LoneStar34> lyht:  yeah from my tests in order of the json reult
Dec 10 22:03:58 <m55> and each item model has a bunch of variables
Dec 10 22:04:05 <LoneStar34> result
Dec 10 22:04:40 <lyht> m55 do you mean use a different template for each row?
Dec 10 22:04:41 <yetdog> aww yeah just officially submitted my apps thru the dev portal. so pumped :)
Dec 10 22:04:44 <m55> {items:[{name:'hi',info:%5B'addr','phone']}, {name:'hi',info:%5B'addr','phone']}, {name:'hi',info:%5B'addr','phone']} ]}
Dec 10 22:04:50 <m55> no i mean the same template
Dec 10 22:04:55 <m55> the model is like that
Dec 10 22:05:23 <m55> inside the row template, you can put dictionary keys to insert the value for each item in the model items list
Dec 10 22:05:27 <m55> #{name}
Dec 10 22:05:29 <m55> ,etc
Dec 10 22:05:41 <lyht> Right.
Dec 10 22:05:48 <m55> I'm asking what do you do when you have something like the info var, which is an array
Dec 10 22:06:07 <m55> how can I only put the first item in the tempalte
Dec 10 22:06:09 <lyht> oh.
Dec 10 22:06:11 <m55> template
Dec 10 22:06:19 <m55> something like #{info[00]}
Dec 10 22:06:54 <m55> i dont want to modify the model
Dec 10 22:07:13 <lyht> I understand. I dont know if the template system supports arrays.
Dec 10 22:07:22 <lyht> It might, but I have no idea.
Dec 10 22:08:07 <sugardave> I don't think it does, but still haven't messed with lists yet
Dec 10 22:08:24 <Dremel> ?
Dec 10 22:08:37 <sugardave> !
Dec 10 22:09:26 <Dremel> no lists for sugardave the great?
Dec 10 22:09:34 <sugardave> hehe, not yet :P
Dec 10 22:09:41 <sugardave> luckily, my apps don't need them
Dec 10 22:09:46 <m55> all of my apps are really list baed
Dec 10 22:09:48 <m55> based
Dec 10 22:09:59 <sugardave> but I am helping someone who needs lists, so I'll get dirty soon enough
Dec 10 22:10:11 <m55> its alot easier than iphone
Dec 10 22:10:25 <Dremel> time to pop your list cherry sugardave
Dec 10 22:11:10 <sugardave> I mean, I made a list once...a nice one, too, of all my db entries, but I had NO idea what I was doing
Dec 10 22:11:15 <sugardave> lots of paste and hack
Dec 10 22:11:56 <yetdog> my last app just had lists - based off json data pulled from my website
Dec 10 22:12:05 <Dremel> not too bad really
Dec 10 22:12:45 <sugardave> it's the templating thing...just need to look at it again now that I understand the big picture a little bit better
Dec 10 22:13:05 <Dremel> ead easy
Dec 10 22:13:16 <Nick9> Can someone in here with homebrew check how many downloads the paid version of Topple Ball has?
Dec 10 22:13:42 <m55> where is the documentation for templating anyway?
Dec 10 22:13:48 <sugardave> Nick9: I would, but my phone is upstairs atm and I'm about to put lights on the tree
Dec 10 22:13:54 * sugardave laughs at m55.
Dec 10 22:14:08 <keenstudios> Hey everybody!
Dec 10 22:14:17 <sugardave> kense, sup?
Dec 10 22:14:23 <lyht> Nick9: the numbers are stuck, and have not been updated for a week or so
Dec 10 22:14:42 <m55> seriously, palm's documentation isn't the greatest.  I just got what i know of templating from a tutorial.
Dec 10 22:14:43 <natenrb9> nick9: you mean with the catalog patch?
Dec 10 22:14:43 <Nick9> I wish they would have kept it as the way before where you didnt need homebrew to check the amount of downloads. Why did they remove that?
Dec 10 22:14:47 <sugardave> hey, I need Deiter to publish my Yule Log update so my appId won't conflict with the one I just submitted to Palm
Dec 10 22:14:55 <Nick9> Yes naten
Dec 10 22:15:05 <natenrb9> catalog download count is down
Dec 10 22:15:08 <keenstudios> Sugardave: just call or email him
Dec 10 22:15:11 <natenrb9> been down for a couple of days...
Dec 10 22:15:36 <keenstudios> Anybody want to take a look at the new Keen Studios website? It's in the works, but I need some opinions
Dec 10 22:15:53 <sugardave> Nick9: I'm sure they removed it because it's not an accurate number of any worthwhile information....unless you never pushed an update, but even then it's still total downloads, so not accurate
Dec 10 22:16:13 <natenrb9> it still shows the numbers
Dec 10 22:16:20 <sugardave> keenstudios: but you are the guy with "in" :P
Dec 10 22:16:22 <Nick9> What does it show?
Dec 10 22:16:23 <natenrb9> they just haven't updated in a while
Dec 10 22:16:24 <sugardave> I'm just a schlub
Dec 10 22:16:25 <lyht> Nick9: they removed it because it also included updates and re-installs. They didn't like it to be confusing. Plus, people might think that the apps with the most downloads are the most popular, instead of just the oldest.
Dec 10 22:16:55 <natenrb9> lyht: oh, they actually stopped it huh…I thought it was a bug
Dec 10 22:17:07 <natenrb9> the problem is it still shows the old number...
Dec 10 22:17:24 <natenrb9> nick9: so you're the creator of Topple Ball huh?
Dec 10 22:17:26 <sugardave> I thought that chuqui mentioned yesterday they had been doing something about moving it over to the dev portal....
Dec 10 22:17:29 <lyht> natenrb9: I think the fact they haven't updated in a while is a bug.
Dec 10 22:17:46 <lyht> or maybe they did turn off even the internal counter... didn't think of that.
Dec 10 22:17:59 <Nick9> Nah. I am a big fan and would like to know the amount of downloads?
Dec 10 22:18:02 <istojic_> anyone experience that their IMG tags which load remote images sometimes just... fail?
Dec 10 22:18:14 <istojic_> ie. they never load whatever it is they are supposed to be loading
Dec 10 22:18:19 <natenrb9> nick9: your download count is 1238, that would have been accurate as a couple days ago
Dec 10 22:18:24 <chuqui> separate situations. The download number in the catalog is total downloads, not unique
Dec 10 22:18:38 <chuqui> but -- right now, the numbers seem to be broken and aren't updating.
Dec 10 22:18:43 <Nick9> wow thats sad. its a great app
Dec 10 22:18:44 <chuqui> I've filed a bug on that.
Dec 10 22:19:03 <natenrb9> it has actually done really well
Dec 10 22:19:10 <yetdog> im curious about boggle
Dec 10 22:19:12 <natenrb9> it hasn't been out too long
Dec 10 22:19:14 <keenstudios> yetdog!
Dec 10 22:19:17 <yetdog> great app  - can never find anyone to play against tho
Dec 10 22:19:20 <yetdog> kesne!
Dec 10 22:19:21 <keenstudios> chuqui: you are here?
Dec 10 22:19:26 <Nick9> only 1238 in like 2 weeks
Dec 10 22:19:27 <yetdog> i submitted my two apps to palm today! :)
Dec 10 22:19:28 <chuqui> nope.
Dec 10 22:19:32 <chuqui> I'm not here
Dec 10 22:19:33 <natenrb9> boggle is up to 209
Dec 10 22:19:39 <natenrb9> but it has had an update...
Dec 10 22:19:45 <natenrb9> so less unique than that...
Dec 10 22:19:50 <lyht> congrats, yetdog!
Dec 10 22:19:53 <yetdog> it could use some sound
Dec 10 22:19:56 <yetdog> thanks lyht!
Dec 10 22:20:15 <natenrb9> nick9: yeah, hasn't done quite as well as you think it would have...
Dec 10 22:20:19 <Nick9> How was Topple Ball done with only html?!?
Dec 10 22:20:41 <natenrb9> and javascript
Dec 10 22:20:53 <natenrb9> or are you grouping that with HTML?
Dec 10 22:21:06 <Nick9> im not the dev
Dec 10 22:21:16 <natenrb9> but yes with just html, css, and javascript it is very impressive
Dec 10 22:21:22 <Nick9> Im not a dev at all but a huge fan of webos
Dec 10 22:21:47 <Nick9> Has anyone else noticed that the game lags sometimes? Why is that? Is the processor that slow?
Dec 10 22:21:58 <keenstudios> g
Dec 10 22:22:00 <keenstudios> Er
Dec 10 22:22:04 <keenstudios> Garbage collect
Dec 10 22:22:05 <natenrb9> Nick9: no
Dec 10 22:22:10 <keenstudios> Thats the lag
Dec 10 22:22:19 <natenrb9> it has the same processor as the iphone 3gs
Dec 10 22:22:25 <Nick9> garbage collecy?
Dec 10 22:22:29 <natenrb9> its because the GPU is not being utilized as of yet
Dec 10 22:22:32 <Nick9> Exact same?
Dec 10 22:22:37 <torchie> darn.
Dec 10 22:22:46 <torchie> the pixi is $25 on amazon... for new customers
Dec 10 22:22:47 <natenrb9> I believe so
Dec 10 22:22:53 <keenstudios> Always has been, and will be unti palm fixes
Dec 10 22:22:55 <keenstudios> So yeah
Dec 10 22:23:04 <keenstudios> Just bug chuq about it
Dec 10 22:23:07 <Nick9> whats garbage collect?
Dec 10 22:23:20 <keenstudios> Garbage Collect cleans up unused memory.
Dec 10 22:23:40 <keenstudios> The issue is that it will cause the game to occationally freeze up
Dec 10 22:23:49 <Nick9> i dont have ANY homebrew
Dec 10 22:24:08 <keenstudios> Homebrew doesnt have anything to do with it
Dec 10 22:24:24 <Nick9> so garbage collect is built into os?
Dec 10 22:24:27 <keenstudios> Personally, I'm waiting for flash. I've already put some people to work porting the apps over to it.
Dec 10 22:24:37 <keenstudios> Yes, GC is built right into webOS
Dec 10 22:24:39 <keenstudios> however
Dec 10 22:24:39 <torchie> is flash going to be fast?
Dec 10 22:24:57 <keenstudios> With the latest releases, it's gotten significatly better at not lagging up games
Dec 10 22:25:04 <Nick9> 1.3.5?
Dec 10 22:25:10 <keenstudios> torchie: There is a demo video, don't ask me
Dec 10 22:25:21 <keenstudios> Nick9: What is 1.3.5?
Dec 10 22:25:33 <Nick9> you said with latest release
Dec 10 22:26:26 <keenstudios> 1.3.1 is the latest release, no?
Dec 10 22:26:45 <sugardave> 1.3.5 "coming soon"
Dec 10 22:26:50 <keenstudios> Well, if you count the Pixi 1.3.2
Dec 10 22:29:40 <Nick9> well i have 1.3.1 and topple ball still lags at some points
Dec 10 22:30:07 <keenstudios> Nick9: I said better, not perfect...
Dec 10 22:30:24 <Nick9> ok so garbage collect basically removes temp files?
Dec 10 22:30:54 <sugardave> kind of...it removes unused objects from RAM
Dec 10 22:31:04 <Nick9> ok another question
Dec 10 22:31:37 <Nick9> if i previously had an email account on phone with emails and removed the emails and account, are any of the email related files still on the pre?
Dec 10 22:31:44 <keenstudios> "GCs can trigger small GCs (approx. 16 ms in average) or big GCs (approx. 300 ms, and up). Currently, our webkit configuration forces the system to do a big GC every time it runs; see --gc_global under JavaScript in /etc/palm/browser.conf. That means every GC gives you a 300+ ms hit every time."
Dec 10 22:32:17 <sugardave> that actually brings up a question from me re: garbage collection...can you minimize/remove its impact by deleting things yourself with severe micro-management?
Dec 10 22:32:57 <natenrb9> sugardave: good question
Dec 10 22:33:01 <natenrb9> like with jsTop?
Dec 10 22:33:09 <natenrb9> I haven't tried it
Dec 10 22:33:18 <keenstudios> sugardave: No idea
Dec 10 22:33:27 <keenstudios> I know that you can turn it off (not a good idea)
Dec 10 22:33:28 <Nick9> keen u see my ?
Dec 10 22:33:49 <sugardave> natenrb9: not sure what I'm talking about, but isn't there a 'delete(var)' type of function that would presumably free up its resource?
Dec 10 22:33:52 <keenstudios> Nick9: Yeah, but unfortunetly I have no idea. I doctor me pre so frequently these days, I wouldnt know.
Dec 10 22:34:22 <Nick9> why doctor it? does palm profile pick up the laft over files, if any?
Dec 10 22:34:38 <natenrb9> get jsTop from homebrew
Dec 10 22:34:45 <keenstudios> Nick9: Doctoring makes me feel better
Dec 10 22:34:46 <keenstudios> http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1692
Dec 10 22:34:49 <natenrb9> or through Preware (much easier)
Dec 10 22:34:52 <keenstudios> Thats a good article
Dec 10 22:34:57 <keenstudios> I don't use Homebrew anymore.
Dec 10 22:35:10 <sugardave> natenrb9: will check it out, thanks
Dec 10 22:35:22 <natenrb9> its a resource manger
Dec 10 22:35:27 <natenrb9> and you can kill apps
Dec 10 22:35:32 <sugardave> ah, nice
Dec 10 22:35:34 <natenrb9> event the default apps
Dec 10 22:35:46 <sugardave> nice AND dangerous...my favorite :D
Dec 10 22:35:53 <natenrb9> very
Dec 10 22:35:57 <natenrb9> good luck :)
Dec 10 22:36:02 <sugardave> thanks
Dec 10 22:36:02 <lyht> sugardave: palm-log is also your friend for tracking impact.
Dec 10 22:36:38 <sugardave> ah, does it show GC events?
Dec 10 22:36:53 <lyht> and as far as I know, delete(var) just tells the garbage collector that you are done using the resource, and it will be available for collecting.
Dec 10 22:36:55 <Mousey> jstop? it allows you run GC on the heap
Dec 10 22:36:56 <sugardave> I'm so used to just watching /var/log/messages I forget about palm-log
Dec 10 22:37:09 <sugardave> lyht: ah, okay
Dec 10 22:37:19 <keenstudios> I've never used palm-log
Dec 10 22:37:27 <Nick9> Which device has the better gpu since they have the same cpu: Palm Pre or iPhone 3GS ?
Dec 10 22:37:29 <lyht> Um, it does sorta, in that you will see a drop in the stack usage.
Dec 10 22:37:59 <sugardave> lyht: oh, this is that graphing thing?  palm-worm?
Dec 10 22:38:07 <keenstudios> Nick9: Wikipedia is your friend
Dec 10 22:38:19 <Nick9> Im just trying to learn from the pros
Dec 10 22:38:36 <lyht> Oh, wait. I keep saying log.
Dec 10 22:38:40 <lyht> I mean palm-worm
Dec 10 22:38:45 <sugardave> yeah, okay...I used that once
Dec 10 22:38:49 <lyht> log is just for seeing the log stuff.
Dec 10 22:39:01 <lyht> keenstudios: use palm-log. and palm-worm
Dec 10 22:39:06 <lyht> use them, love them.
Dec 10 22:39:10 <keenstudios> lyht: Pass
Dec 10 22:39:16 <sugardave> haha
Dec 10 22:39:21 <lyht> hahaha. Use it once, and you will be hooked.
Dec 10 22:39:27 <keenstudios> I just know that my apps don't kill resources
Dec 10 22:39:30 <lyht> come on... everyone is doing it.
Dec 10 22:39:32 <keenstudios> I hate using tools like that
Dec 10 22:39:36 <keenstudios> nah
Dec 10 22:39:40 <Nick9> So which device has the better gpu since they have the same cpu: Palm Pre or iPhone 3GS ?
Dec 10 22:39:45 <keenstudios> Don't peer pressure me into doing this.
Dec 10 22:40:03 <lyht> Nick9: no idea. haven't look. I think they are basically the same.
Dec 10 22:40:10 <keenstudios> Nick9: Same? No idea. Doesnt matter for the pre, it doesnt even use it.
Dec 10 22:40:12 <lyht> :)
Dec 10 22:40:34 <Nick9> Will Palm ever allow it?
Dec 10 22:40:43 <lyht> yah, they are working on it.
Dec 10 22:40:47 <keenstudios> Nick9: yes yes yes
Dec 10 22:40:49 <keenstudios> Fo sho
Dec 10 22:40:50 <keenstudios> dawg
Dec 10 22:41:01 <lyht> there is a rumor that need-for-speed is on it's way.
Dec 10 22:41:10 <Nick9> So Will the Pre ever get games the quality that the iphone 3gs has and run them just as good?
Dec 10 22:41:20 <lyht> yes.
Dec 10 22:41:30 <natenrb9> nick9: gpu's I believe are basically the same
Dec 10 22:42:27 <natenrb9> nick9: the problem isn't that they just aren't "allowing" it
Dec 10 22:42:55 <Nick9> why not?
Dec 10 22:43:03 <natenrb9> the problem is the technology to utilize a gpu with html, js, and css is still in the works
Dec 10 22:43:05 <natenrb9> webGL
Dec 10 22:43:08 <natenrb9> go read about it
Dec 10 22:45:04 <haeffb_> "Hello World"
Dec 10 22:45:12 <lyht> Hello haeffb_
Dec 10 22:45:58 * haeffb_ is sad that my Pre cracked it's screen, and I am using my backup Touch Diamond, and am reminded that Pre cannot stream WMA.
Dec 10 22:46:25 <sugardave> haeffb_: when will you get a new Pre?
Dec 10 22:47:15 <haeffb_> it's on a UPS truck somewhere now. be here tomorrow
Dec 10 22:47:27 <haeffb_> will webOS do WMA by tomorrow? :)
Dec 10 22:47:54 <Mousey> YES!*
Dec 10 22:47:56 <Mousey> * no
Dec 10 22:48:17 <sugardave> haeffb_: I doubt it, but...YOU NEVER KNOW
Dec 10 22:49:02 <dBsooner> Anyone know how to change your email on developer.palm.com?
Dec 10 22:49:37 * haeffb_ reads #webOS and sees that "Senior Forum Members" get diff colored names. The only "Senior Forum Member" I've run across yet is luawaifan
Dec 10 22:49:48 <sugardave> dBsooner: hmmm, nope.  might not be able to without manual intervention from a Palm person?
Dec 10 22:50:00 * haeffb_ suspects it's based on #posts, not contributions.
Dec 10 22:50:07 <sugardave> haeffb_: you've cut me to the quick, sir
Dec 10 22:50:13 <dBsooner> sugardave: I keep asking adora, but she keeps ignoring me.
Dec 10 22:50:23 <dBsooner> Any other sprint rep's want to chime in?
Dec 10 22:50:41 * sugardave challenges haeffb_ to a duel.
Dec 10 22:50:52 <haeffb_> sugardave: too bad I didn't see you in green first - then I'd have been sure it was contribution
Dec 10 22:51:03 <haeffb_> alas, my search was limited
Dec 10 22:51:09 <sugardave> hehe
Dec 10 22:51:18 <haeffb_> but, a duel sounds like fun.
Dec 10 22:51:23 <haeffb_> Lists at 20 paces?
Dec 10 22:51:35 <sugardave> concede
Dec 10 22:53:19 <haeffb_> touchscreen keyboards suck mightily
Dec 10 22:53:56 <Rick_work> but they are superior to attempting to rotate the pre's screen to landscape mode
Dec 10 22:54:07 <Rick_work> s/screen/keyboard/
Dec 10 22:54:26 <haeffb_> but, thats easy if you just twist hard enough.
Dec 10 22:54:28 <gkatsev> (known to bork pres)
Dec 10 22:54:36 <Rick_work> absoloutely known to
Dec 10 22:54:58 <natenrb9> I want a screen keyboard just to do universal search
Dec 10 22:55:00 <natenrb9> that's all
Dec 10 22:55:09 <Rick_work> ha
Dec 10 22:55:20 <natenrb9> that would be perfect…wouldn't have to slide open everytime I want to search...
Dec 10 22:55:32 <Rick_work> doesn't VK do that now?
Dec 10 22:55:41 <natenrb9> nope...
Dec 10 22:55:45 <Rick_work> too bad
Dec 10 22:56:00 <natenrb9> they explain the problem of why they can't on weos-internals
Dec 10 22:56:04 <natenrb9> webos
Dec 10 22:56:14 <Nick9> Does anyone know how many apps Android had in the length WebOS has been out?
Dec 10 22:56:17 <natenrb9> yeah, that is really the only think I would want it for
Dec 10 22:56:34 <Rick_work> Nick9  don't know.
Dec 10 22:56:48 <Rick_work> android app count vs time
Dec 10 22:57:24 <natenrb9> rick_work: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Keyboard#0.2.3_-_Fixes.2FEnhancements
Dec 10 22:57:33 <natenrb9> look under issues
Dec 10 22:57:34 <Nick9> Alright which has the better cpu and gpu: Palm Pre or Motorola Droid
Dec 10 22:57:37 <gkatsev> how many apps did the iphone have in the first 9 months? ZERO!
Dec 10 22:57:52 <gkatsev> Nick9: the same. but the droid actually uses the gpu for now
Dec 10 22:57:56 <natenrb9> gkatsev: they did, but they were jailbroken apps
Dec 10 22:58:14 <Adora> sorry, I was busy teaching myself german
Dec 10 22:58:17 <Adora> what's up?
Dec 10 22:58:17 <natenrb9> I had an iphone a few months after the first release and had apps on a few months after that :)
Dec 10 22:58:28 <gkatsev> natenrb9: i still doubt it had this many
Dec 10 22:58:40 <natenrb9> definitely not
Dec 10 22:58:51 <natenrb9> the problem is you can't compare like that...
Dec 10 22:59:01 <natenrb9> since iphone app store is so far ahead
Dec 10 22:59:07 <natenrb9> palm has to crank to catch up
Dec 10 22:59:10 <dBsooner> Adora: German?
Dec 10 22:59:18 <dBsooner> Adora: App Catalog review? :D
Dec 10 22:59:22 <gkatsev> unfortunately not. my point is that in 3 years webos probably will have more apps total.
Dec 10 22:59:33 <dBsooner> Adora: I asked if it were possible to change my email @ developer.palm.com
Dec 10 22:59:40 <natenrb9> I don't know about more...
Dec 10 22:59:41 <Nick9> I want a computer version of the app catalog like iTunes
Dec 10 22:59:43 <natenrb9> but it will have a ton
Dec 10 22:59:44 <Adora> ich bein ein Berliner!
Dec 10 22:59:59 <Adora> umm
Dec 10 23:00:02 <natenrb9> the whole html, css, js thing makes apps incredibly easy to build that is for sure!
Dec 10 23:00:05 <sugardave> Adora: I just wanted your name to highlight
Dec 10 23:00:05 <gkatsev> natenrb9: i would think more because it is just so much easier to write apps for webos. it just needs more exposure
Dec 10 23:00:07 <Adora> iono, ask chuq
Dec 10 23:00:12 <gkatsev> Adora: you are not a jelly donut.
Dec 10 23:00:21 <dBsooner> chuqui: ! :)
Dec 10 23:00:26 <natenrb9> my guess is android will have the most in 3 years
Dec 10 23:00:32 <natenrb9> just so many android phones...
Dec 10 23:00:34 <Adora> gkatsev: ok then, I am a Hamburger!
Dec 10 23:01:05 <sugardave> but you gotta ask yourself...is it quantity or quality of apps you are looking for?
Dec 10 23:01:20 <natenrb9> obviously quality
Dec 10 23:01:28 <Nick9> I want high quality and visual games like the iPhone
Dec 10 23:01:30 <dBsooner> iPhone has a ton of apps, but only a low percentage are quality.
Dec 10 23:01:31 <gkatsev> Adora: lol. fine, berliner it is.
Dec 10 23:01:34 <natenrb9> but the more quantity the more quality you'll have
Dec 10 23:01:39 * FoxFireX is somewhat disappointed with the app x 30 proliferation of a couple of developers on the Pre.
Dec 10 23:01:55 <sugardave> natenrb9: while possibly true, there's no guarantee of that
Dec 10 23:01:56 <natenrb9> I think you'll end up with the same ratios on all the platforms
Dec 10 23:02:19 <LoneStar34> I agree with adora, the whole writting an app for a mobile, in java or C is a turnoff for most developers which want to build an app but do not get paid for developing
Dec 10 23:02:24 <natenrb9> even with only 620 webOS apps there is plenty of crap
Dec 10 23:02:42 <chuqui> if adora is a hamburger, anyone got some ketchup?
Dec 10 23:02:47 <gkatsev> yeah, probably in about a year or two, we'll have a comparable amount
Dec 10 23:02:51 <dBsooner> ROFL
Dec 10 23:02:52 <LoneStar34> i guarantee 80% of iphone apps are made by paid developers
Dec 10 23:02:56 <sugardave> YOU DON'T PUT KETCHUP ON HAMBURGERS
Dec 10 23:02:59 <natenrb9> and since it is so easy (js, html, css as discussed) I could see webOS getting a lot of crap
Dec 10 23:03:09 <chuqui> dave: you do if you're allergic to mustard.
Dec 10 23:03:09 <natenrb9> (with plenty of good once too of course)
Dec 10 23:03:20 <dBsooner> Adora: Human Resources is screaming right now.
Dec 10 23:03:20 <chuqui> (well, I don't use ketchup, either, but it was too good a striaghtline to give up)
Dec 10 23:03:23 <sugardave> chuqui: oh, well I GUESS that's alright
Dec 10 23:03:40 <gkatsev> chuqui: baconnaise
Dec 10 23:03:46 <gkatsev> 'nugh said
Dec 10 23:03:47 <natenrb9> ones
Dec 10 23:03:49 <sugardave> rofl
Dec 10 23:04:09 <dBsooner> Actually, I watched a show last night about the first Hamburger.. in New Jersey or wherever.. They said you absolutely do NOT put any ketchup/mustard/mayo/etc on a burger.. you need to taste the meat.
Dec 10 23:04:22 <dBsooner> chuqui: Is there a way to change your email on developer.palm.com?
Dec 10 23:05:14 <chuqui> most of the meat used in hamburgers in the states today? you want to cover.
Dec 10 23:05:40 <gkatsev> lol
Dec 10 23:05:51 <gkatsev> kobe beef burger
Dec 10 23:06:01 <dBsooner> chuqui: Good point. I am only referencing the show because of they made "real hamburgers" there.
Dec 10 23:06:02 <gkatsev> one of the best burgers ive had
Dec 10 23:06:36 <dBsooner> shoot.. mine is McDonald's.
Dec 10 23:06:56 <sugardave> too bad most of you have never experienced the glorious wonder of Whataburger burgers
Dec 10 23:06:57 * FoxFireX doesn't want to change his email, but is gonna hafta figure out how to get that cool teal username. :)
Dec 10 23:07:11 <natenrb9> isn't there a #burgercentral for you guys to have this discussion on…?
Dec 10 23:07:14 <FoxFireX> Mmmmm.... Whataburger....
Dec 10 23:07:22 <sugardave> hell yeah
Dec 10 23:07:23 <LoneStar34> In and Out!
Dec 10 23:07:30 <LoneStar34> and Whataburger!
Dec 10 23:07:43 <dBsooner> I Love my whataburgers!
Dec 10 23:07:47 <dBsooner> Got one less than 3 miles
Dec 10 23:07:59 <FoxFireX> Nearest one is within 1.5 miles, I think.
Dec 10 23:08:01 <dBsooner> Now, I REALLY enjoyed In and Out when I was in San Diego.
Dec 10 23:08:04 <FoxFireX> Maybe inside one.
Dec 10 23:08:05 <haeffb_> no whataburger in mid-mo
Dec 10 23:08:14 <dBsooner> I miss my "garbage fries"
Dec 10 23:08:25 <dBsooner> In and Out's Hidden Menu was the best.
Dec 10 23:08:42 <dBsooner> but here in Okie land.. we have to survive on Whataburger.
Dec 10 23:08:46 <Nick8> Isn't App Catalog supposed to come out of beta this month? What do you think will happen to the catalog the day the full release launches?
Dec 10 23:08:56 <gkatsev> heart attack grill anyone?
Dec 10 23:09:02 <dBsooner> Nick8: where did you hear that?
Dec 10 23:09:19 <Nick8> cant remember
Dec 10 23:09:25 <FoxFireX> I've heard that too; general access for submitting apps is supposed to be mid-month.
Dec 10 23:09:32 <dBsooner> Probably because it's not true.
Dec 10 23:09:54 <dBsooner> I HIGHLY doubt it will come out of beta.
Dec 10 23:10:03 <dBsooner> ^^ this month
Dec 10 23:10:13 <dBsooner> Of course it will come out of beta some day.
Dec 10 23:10:19 <sugardave> damn, dBsooner bringin' the reality smackdown
Dec 10 23:10:27 <FoxFireX> http://www.prethinking.com/home/2009/11/9/app-catalog-beta-ends-next-month-might-bring-a-flood-of-new.html
Dec 10 23:10:30 <Nick8> What is keeping it in beta? WebGL?
Dec 10 23:10:38 <dBsooner> Nick8: A lot of things
Dec 10 23:10:40 <natenrb9> I agree with dBsooner…I don't see it happening this month
Dec 10 23:10:42 <gkatsev> http://www.heartattackgrill.com/ if you weigh over 350, food is free
Dec 10 23:10:43 <FoxFireX> Posted November, claimed December launch of non-beta.
Dec 10 23:10:53 <FoxFireX> Official source, no idea.
Dec 10 23:10:58 <natenrb9> lots of stuff for them to do still...
Dec 10 23:11:00 <FoxFireX> But that's at least one place the story came from.
Dec 10 23:11:25 <natenrb9> and with the holidays, bowl games, etc….I don't see it happening...
Dec 10 23:11:38 <Nick6> A lot of things? Like what?
Dec 10 23:11:57 <natenrb9> nick: webGl definitely doesn't have anything to do with it
Dec 10 23:12:05 <dBsooner> "it's complicated"
Dec 10 23:12:21 <natenrb9> there are still plenty of app possibilites without webGL/GPU usage
Dec 10 23:12:39 <natenrb9> just not the high end games like the iphone until then
Dec 10 23:12:49 <Nick6> Please explain anyways dBsooner
Dec 10 23:12:55 <dBsooner> Nick6: I can't.
Dec 10 23:13:31 <sugardave> Nick6: there are a WHOLE lot of things to do just to get the application submission portal up to snuff, much less any of the things we don't know about re: back-end processing of app downloads, reviews, etc.
Dec 10 23:13:32 <natenrb9> nick: just general bugs, procedures, and whatnot to work out
Dec 10 23:13:40 <FoxFireX> And here's the source article the other one drew from, claiming a relaunch of the catalog in December: http://www.mercurynews.com/search/ci_13724446?nclick_check=1
Dec 10 23:13:55 <dawm> whats the syntax? var foo = (apple) ? 'value was true' : 'value was false';
Dec 10 23:14:07 <dBsooner> Plus, Palm wants to enable the over all external URL support
Dec 10 23:14:11 <sugardave> dawm: yes
Dec 10 23:14:12 <rwhitby> having only 16 apps in europe app catalog is something that might keep it in beta a little longer ...
Dec 10 23:14:13 <dBsooner> which will DEFINITELY need testing
Dec 10 23:14:15 <dawm> thanx
Dec 10 23:14:18 <sugardave> np
Dec 10 23:14:28 <dBsooner> thanks rwhitby.. I forgot about that one.
Dec 10 23:16:18 <FoxFireX> And here's an older posting from the start of the ecommerce portion of the catalog, also claiming an official December launch: http://www.devsource.com/c/a/Architecture/Palm-webOS-Developer-Program-Starting-in-December/
Dec 10 23:16:36 <FoxFireX> I think it's pretty clear that was the original schedule; it's obviously possible it may have changed since then.
Dec 10 23:17:34 <gkatsev> webgl draft released today: http://hacks.mozilla.org/2009/12/webgl-draft-released-today/
Dec 10 23:20:28 <Nick6> If I previously had an email account on my Pre and emails and removed my emails and account, will any files associated with email be left over?
Dec 10 23:23:56 <sugardave> don't know, you could back up everything else and doctor it....just to be sure
Dec 10 23:24:29 <Nick6> How do i choose what and what not to backup?
Dec 10 23:25:57 <sugardave> I'd go with everything in /media/internal
Dec 10 23:27:28 <haeffb_> sugardave: Because of our earlier duel, I am going to add you as "foe" on webOSdev forums.
Dec 10 23:27:43 <haeffb_> except that I don't know what that means...
Dec 10 23:27:55 <sugardave> hehe, I saw friends and foes, but I could only add friends :D
Dec 10 23:28:25 <haeffb_> Can add foes now. Looks like it just means "ignore posts"
Dec 10 23:29:29 <sugardave> oh, there we go
Dec 10 23:29:31 <sugardave> haha
Dec 10 23:30:27 <dawm> blasted craptacular error logging.. cant find my issue after i updated a ton of code..
Dec 10 23:30:35 <haeffb_> also: https://developer.palm.com/distribution/memberlist.php?mode=group
Dec 10 23:32:04 * gkatsev ->  home
Dec 10 23:37:45 <dawm> level mode is almost done for swap&drop ;D
Dec 10 23:43:41 <dirs> how can I test location on webos?
Dec 10 23:44:10 <dirs> i set the location with luna-send but when I try to use serviceRequest('palm://com.palm.location')
Dec 10 23:44:27 <dirs> i get errocode 5
Dec 10 23:47:09 <FoxFireX> So it claims that's LocationServiceOFF.
Dec 10 23:47:15 <FoxFireX> Have you turned on location services in the emulator?
Dec 10 23:59:52 <kesne> hey all
Dec 11 00:02:07 <FoxFireX> Evenin'.
Dec 11 00:03:15 <haeffb_> hola kesne
Dec 11 00:06:05 <dawm> weee
Dec 11 00:06:08 <dawm> level mode is great
Dec 11 00:06:11 <dawm> works as planned
Dec 11 00:07:20 <haeffb_> woohoo!
Dec 11 00:11:38 <dawm> animation is back too
Dec 11 00:11:47 <kesne> good
Dec 11 00:11:48 <kesne> bout time
Dec 11 00:12:19 <dawm> 2 new themes, and still working on a swap&drop theme
Dec 11 00:12:30 <dawm> web2.0 is out, social is in
Dec 11 00:12:43 <kesne> Keep both?
Dec 11 00:12:46 <dawm> same stuff, just different style
Dec 11 00:12:49 <kesne> I can make you some if you want
Dec 11 00:13:22 <dawm> ive still got a bug in the level mode, piece count is still off a bit, so i gotta toy with it
Dec 11 00:19:15 <noaXess> hi all
Dec 11 00:19:19 <noaXess> someone.. still here :)
Dec 11 00:19:32 <noaXess> itŝ 0119 here in switzerland
Dec 11 00:19:59 <Bmyers_qwerty> good morning to you
Dec 11 00:20:04 <kesne> tis 4:19 in Oregon
Dec 11 00:20:31 <noaXess> ahve installed palm sdk.... but get this after installation palm-novacom: start: Unknown job: palm-novacomd
Dec 11 00:20:41 <noaXess> i on kubuntu karmic koala 9.10 64bit
Dec 11 00:21:03 <noaXess> have installed with --force-architecture
Dec 11 00:21:07 <noaXess> tip?
Dec 11 00:21:16 <noaXess> hey Bmyers_qwerty and kesne
Dec 11 00:22:09 <noaXess> so.. other infor.. i hace still installed virtualbox 3.1... cause i use it for other virtual things..
Dec 11 00:24:27 <LoneStar34> noaXess: have seen lots of folks have problems with virtualbox 3.1x
Dec 11 00:24:57 <sugardave> can't use vbox 3.1 yet
Dec 11 00:25:30 <noaXess> LoneStar34: so.. also i have not the standard vbox machines location directories.. my machines/vbox configs are nto in ~/.Virtualbox....
Dec 11 00:25:38 <noaXess> hm..... hm..
Dec 11 00:25:42 <sugardave> you want to use Palm
Dec 11 00:25:49 <sugardave> 's provided launcher anyway
Dec 11 00:25:56 <sugardave> to star the image
Dec 11 00:25:59 <sugardave> start
Dec 11 00:25:59 <noaXess> ?
Dec 11 00:26:19 <noaXess> so.. developing.. and then try directly on palm's webos.. right?
Dec 11 00:26:28 <sugardave> instead of running vbox and opening the image yourself...if you are doing that
Dec 11 00:26:39 <Nick6> If I run a website using Joomla, what all would I have to do to make an app for my website?
Dec 11 00:27:00 <noaXess> sugardave: where is the image to download and integrate it in vbox 3.1?
Dec 11 00:27:17 <sugardave> noaXess: you can't use vbox 3.1 yet...unsupported with the webOS images
Dec 11 00:27:29 <sugardave> I'm also not sure of paths and such for the Linux versions
Dec 11 00:27:30 <noaXess> sugardave: where are the images?
Dec 11 00:27:35 <sugardave> ^^^^
Dec 11 00:27:39 <noaXess> ok
Dec 11 00:28:04 <sugardave> but, you may not get very far until you uncover your palm-novacomd problem
Dec 11 00:28:30 <LoneStar34> noaXess: use VirtualBox 3.0.x
Dec 11 00:28:32 <sugardave> I'd check the webosdev forum and see what's in there re: the sdk on linux
Dec 11 00:29:00 <noaXess> LoneStar34: so.. can't cause.. other vbox machines run allready with 3.1.. so not really good to go back.
Dec 11 00:29:12 <sugardave> Nick6: probably some sort of PHP module to write...never used Joomla, but that's how you do it in Drupal
Dec 11 00:31:05 <atlanta> hey everyone
Dec 11 00:31:06 <atlanta> wsup
Dec 11 00:31:20 <sugardave> hi atlanta
Dec 11 00:31:26 <atlanta> hey sugardave
Dec 11 00:31:28 <atlanta> what u up 2 my man
Dec 11 00:31:50 <sugardave> smoke break...lighting the tree
Dec 11 00:32:17 <atlanta> ahhh how long u been smokoin
Dec 11 00:32:28 <sugardave> way too long
Dec 11 00:32:45 <sugardave> (this wasn't the good kind of smoke break)
Dec 11 00:33:08 <atlanta> oh ok
Dec 11 00:33:21 <noaXess> in which deb file is the virtualbox image?
Dec 11 00:34:34 <natenrb9> with the accelerometer is one direction positive accel and one direction negative accel?
Dec 11 00:35:36 <dawm> whats the syntax to count the number of items in an object?
Dec 11 00:35:52 <natenrb9> .length
Dec 11 00:36:10 <natenrb9> oh wait…maybe that only works with an array...
Dec 11 00:36:13 <FoxFireX> Well, that's the number of items in an array.
Dec 11 00:36:31 <FoxFireX> For an object, unless Prototype gives you a helper, you mayhave to foreach it and count.
Dec 11 00:36:34 <dawm> yeah that only spits out 1, and theres more than 1
Dec 11 00:37:10 <FoxFireX> var i = 0; for (propName in obj) i++;
Dec 11 00:37:43 <FoxFireX> Of course, that may give you more than what you want. :)
Dec 11 00:39:04 <noaXess> how des the virtualbox config for the webos image looks?
Dec 11 00:39:12 <noaXess> does^
Dec 11 00:39:28 <catalystmediastu> Hey guys. I'm trying to do a palm-package and it says: "Expected a ',' or '}' at character 177" What is the first file it checks that would cause an error like that?
Dec 11 00:39:31 <haeffb_> counting items in a object is complicated. Objects can contain arrays, other objects, etc.
Dec 11 00:40:04 <noaXess> i found the vmdk image but no settings..
Dec 11 00:40:43 * haeffb_ would hire a 5th-grader to count items for me. $0.05 per item.
Dec 11 00:41:00 <lyht> catalystmediastu: I dont know what files it checks... other than appinfo.json
Dec 11 00:41:26 <lyht> check for a closing } in there.
Dec 11 00:41:45 <catalystmediastu> Will do
Dec 11 00:42:55 <catalystmediastu> Yep there was a comma missing, but I found it when I ran it through JSlint. Thanks lyht
Dec 11 00:47:47 <catalystmediastu> Hey and does anyone know a good trick for getting the Palm Inspector to stay working on OS X. Mine will occasionally just not load new information and I have to restart the emulator.
Dec 11 00:47:51 <LoneStar34> Is it allowed to build an app and the css background is from the cloud?
Dec 11 00:48:04 <reality9110> catalystmediastu: Nature of the beast
Dec 11 00:48:09 <kesne> LoneStar34: don't see why not
Dec 11 00:48:21 <kesne> The only issue you will have is with people with no internet connection
Dec 11 00:49:03 <reality9110> LoneStar34: I would make it dynamic.  Load it with javascript through the stage-assistant, but have a fall back if an internet connection is not available.
Dec 11 00:49:03 <LoneStar34> yeah, I  see why not either,  but i can default a local background if cloud image not present
Dec 11 00:49:25 <LoneStar34> ok thanks,
Dec 11 00:49:56 <catalystmediastu> Okey dokey then. Also is it good/ok practice to put some HTML in the index.html if it's used in every scene? For instance header that appear in every scene.
Dec 11 00:51:00 <reality9110> You can if you want to
Dec 11 00:52:26 <noaXess> someone work with linux 64bit and vbox 3.1
Dec 11 00:52:27 <noaXess> ?
Dec 11 00:55:37 <atlanta> 32 bit WINS
Dec 11 00:56:01 <atlanta> u need the config
Dec 11 00:56:01 <atlanta> ?
Dec 11 00:58:50 <atlanta> does .show() work in mojo
Dec 11 00:58:55 <atlanta> if i have a display set to non
Dec 11 00:59:10 <m55> what is the $L function?
Dec 11 00:59:18 <atlanta> Language
Dec 11 00:59:29 <atlanta> it selects the language set to the phone
Dec 11 00:59:35 <atlanta> so u can create a language file
Dec 11 00:59:49 <m55> i see
Dec 11 00:59:50 <atlanta> Bmyers_qwerty: u on
Dec 11 00:59:51 <atlanta> ?
Dec 11 01:00:15 <atlanta> anybody uses twitter on here
Dec 11 01:00:44 <reality9110> atlanta: show and hide both work
Dec 11 01:01:23 <atlanta> thanks
Dec 11 01:02:03 <Bmyers_qwerty> ping pong
Dec 11 01:02:15 <natenrb9> anyone know a good document on accelerometers?
Dec 11 01:02:35 <natenrb9> anyone on that knows a decent amount about working with them?
Dec 11 01:02:35 <Bmyers_qwerty> topple ball
Dec 11 01:03:00 <natenrb9> yeah…it would be nice if that dev was on here...
Dec 11 01:03:17 <natenrb9> or if they wrote an article...
Dec 11 01:03:23 <Bmyers_qwerty> you can dl and read his software anytime u like
Dec 11 01:03:35 <natenrb9> true
Dec 11 01:03:46 <natenrb9> anyone know a mac program that opens ipk's?
Dec 11 01:03:49 <Bmyers_qwerty> might be a her. i dunno
Dec 11 01:04:28 <Bmyers_qwerty> u could install it to the emu and look at it there
Dec 11 01:04:36 <haeffb_> atlanta: yes, twitter
Dec 11 01:05:38 * haeffb_ shudders at the idea of anyone reading my software...
Dec 11 01:06:33 <sugardave> good luck figuring out wtf I was thinking if you look at my stuff ;)
Dec 11 01:07:08 <sugardave> natenrb9: ar opens .ipks
Dec 11 01:07:20 <haeffb_> good point. usually *I* can't figure out what I was thinking
Dec 11 01:07:26 <natenrb9> sugardave: same goes for me, lol
Dec 11 01:07:33 <natenrb9> ar?
Dec 11 01:07:39 <sugardave> it's a linux thing
Dec 11 01:07:44 <sugardave> might be in OSX?
Dec 11 01:08:01 <sugardave> ar decompresses them, I should say
Dec 11 01:09:09 <rwhitby> natenrb9: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=tree;f=toolchain/ipkg-utils
Dec 11 01:09:18 <rwhitby> natenrb9: ipkg-unbuild from that directory.  python script.
Dec 11 01:09:26 <rwhitby> works on linux and macosx
Dec 11 01:09:47 <sugardave> "queued for review" is worse than "under review"
Dec 11 01:09:56 <reality9110> Rejected is even worse
Dec 11 01:10:15 <sugardave> indeed....did you ever get the email?
Dec 11 01:10:28 <reality9110> No.  It turned out to be a communication problem
Dec 11 01:10:32 <sugardave> lame
Dec 11 01:10:51 <reality9110> Yeah, kind of disappointed with the entire system
Dec 11 01:11:00 <haeffb_> its beta
Dec 11 01:11:06 <sugardave> send lots of emails and try to get them to push it through
Dec 11 01:11:22 <atlanta> haeffb_: wanna test
Dec 11 01:11:25 <reality9110> I do need to fix one thing now that international registration is opened again
Dec 11 01:11:32 <natenrb9> yeah, the beta system is driving me nuts!
Dec 11 01:11:45 <reality9110> And, I've got a few translators working on translations for the description
Dec 11 01:12:47 <haeffb_> atlanta: sure. No Pre tonight, though.
Dec 11 01:13:02 <haeffb_> should be able to test over the weekend
Dec 11 01:13:07 <atlanta> ahhh
Dec 11 01:13:08 <atlanta> ok
Dec 11 01:13:39 * haeffb_ apparently hasn't gotten the "cracked Pre screen" saga to everyone yet.
Dec 11 01:14:02 <haeffb_> guess I could test tonight, but only on the left half of the screen...
Dec 11 01:15:01 <sugardave> Pre3D
Dec 11 01:24:13 <kesne> Where is chuq?
Dec 11 01:27:26 <kesne> Is JenP here?
Dec 11 01:29:00 <sugardave> strike 2
Dec 11 01:36:10 <dawm> woot
Dec 11 01:36:34 <dawm> revamped the scoring ;D
Dec 11 01:36:54 <dawm> the higher the set the higher the multiplier, multiple sets increase it as well
Dec 11 01:37:47 <catalystmediastu> Hmm my Palm Inspector only shows the index.html, but nothing inside of it that was inside a scene that was pushed. I've restarted many times. Any way to force a refresh or something?
Dec 11 01:38:08 <natenrb9> so…some of us were talking about the lag in Topple Ball earlier
Dec 11 01:38:29 <natenrb9> I believe I figure out what is going on
Dec 11 01:38:41 <natenrb9> the accelerometer data actually freezing sometimes...
Dec 11 01:39:02 <natenrb9> I'm viewing live accelerometer data and it freezes for a bit on me sometimes...
Dec 11 01:52:08 <CzrAvelar> hello
Dec 11 01:52:51 <CzrAvelar> anybody here?
Dec 11 01:52:58 <FoxFireX> No, sorry. :)
Dec 11 01:53:12 <LoneStar34> everyone is alseep behind the computer
Dec 11 01:54:01 <CzrAvelar> so like what are some cool  chat rooms besides this one
Dec 11 01:54:29 <sugardave> #coolchat  (note, I don't know if it exists or what the content might be, enter at your own risk)
Dec 11 01:54:47 <CzrAvelar> ha ha ok
Dec 11 01:55:02 <sugardave> but, there's webos stuff here and at #webos-internals
Dec 11 01:55:14 <sugardave> and then there's off-topic stuff at #webos-watercooler
Dec 11 01:55:16 <FoxFireX> Musta taken a wrong turn at Albuquerque.
Dec 11 01:55:23 <sugardave> oops
Dec 11 01:55:28 <sugardave> but, there's webos stuff here and at #webos-internals
Dec 11 01:55:30 <sugardave> and then there's off-topic stuff at #webos-watercooler
Dec 11 01:55:33 <sugardave> you missed that part
Dec 11 01:55:35 <CzrAvelar> nobady there
Dec 11 01:56:01 <LoneStar34> #nerdsgonewild
Dec 11 01:56:11 <sugardave> no one wants to see that
Dec 11 01:56:33 <LoneStar34> yeah, interesting concept, next realty show
Dec 11 01:57:04 <sugardave> too esoteric and hihg-brow for 99% of the viewing public, fails after 1 episode
Dec 11 01:57:14 <CzrAvelar> all I know is that I envy iphone apps
Dec 11 01:57:50 <sugardave> why?
Dec 11 01:58:20 <CzrAvelar> cuss I get bored with so little apps for the pre
Dec 11 01:58:36 <sugardave> well, write some
Dec 11 01:58:55 <dawm> sweet
Dec 11 01:59:01 <dawm> bonus scoring works perfectly
Dec 11 01:59:02 <sugardave> I mean, how many fart apps do you REALLY need?
Dec 11 01:59:19 <MiX-MaN> so far i've been happy with the app selection for the pre
Dec 11 01:59:32 <MiX-MaN> more would be nice.. but i've found everything that i need on the pre
Dec 11 01:59:37 <sugardave> for a new platform with app dev still in beta, I think it's doing pretty well
Dec 11 02:00:02 <MiX-MaN> and the fact 90% of the stuff is free is even better ... thanks devs :D
Dec 11 02:00:26 * sugardave has no free apps in the catalog.  "Sorry." :D
Dec 11 02:00:42 <MiX-MaN> :(
Dec 11 02:00:50 <CzrAvelar> what about games
Dec 11 02:00:51 <sugardave> but my game is really fun, if you like logic problems
Dec 11 02:00:59 <MiX-MaN> err.. well.. i should say "donation ware"
Dec 11 02:01:04 <MiX-MaN> since thats the latest term
Dec 11 02:01:13 <CzrAvelar> I ger bored. work security here ha ha
Dec 11 02:01:16 <sugardave> donationware in the catalog?
Dec 11 02:01:20 <sugardave> I thought we couldn't do that?
Dec 11 02:01:20 <MiX-MaN> bah.. i cant stand logic games.. they piss me off
Dec 11 02:01:21 <MiX-MaN> lol
Dec 11 02:01:31 <sugardave> MiX-MaN: sorry :D
Dec 11 02:01:45 <MiX-MaN> which one did you do?
Dec 11 02:03:45 <CzrAvelar> so if I wana write apps for pree I should learn java?
Dec 11 02:03:47 <sugardave> it's called Mind Master
Dec 11 02:04:05 <sugardave> CzrAvelar: it's all JavaScript, HTML5, and CSS
Dec 11 02:05:11 <MiX-MaN> hehe
Dec 11 02:05:18 <MiX-MaN> nice disclaimer :)
Dec 11 02:05:28 <dawm> hey i got a questions
Dec 11 02:05:43 <sugardave> MiX-MaN: thanks, I had to put that in there after the first revision
Dec 11 02:05:43 <MiX-MaN> this is'nt radioshack :)
Dec 11 02:06:03 <JenP> hi all!
Dec 11 02:06:05 <sugardave> hi JenP
Dec 11 02:06:05 <dawm> when you advanced to the next level, should you be prompted to continue? if so what should happen if you dont want to continue? quit the game? start back at level 1?
Dec 11 02:06:14 <JenP> hey sugardave!
Dec 11 02:06:38 <MiX-MaN> sup JenP
Dec 11 02:06:56 <JenP> not much
Dec 11 02:06:58 <sugardave> dawm: maybe just have a "Ready?" dialog pop up
Dec 11 02:07:22 <dawm> well right now it just twitches and the start game button pops up
Dec 11 02:07:26 <sugardave> and if you don't want to continue, drop them back to the title screen, if there is one
Dec 11 02:07:28 <natenrb9> so this should work right…: this.orient = Mojo.Controller.StageController.getWindowOrientation();
Dec 11 02:07:37 <dawm> no title screen, which is why i ask
Dec 11 02:07:46 <natenrb9> shouldn't that return the window's orientation...?
Dec 11 02:07:48 <sugardave> natenrb9: I never use capital S StageController
Dec 11 02:08:03 <sugardave> more like Mojo.Controller.stageController.....
Dec 11 02:08:24 <sugardave> but, I've not done any orientation work, so maybe the constrcutor will work...not sure
Dec 11 02:08:37 <natenrb9> sugardave: you've done it again!
Dec 11 02:08:44 <sugardave> cha-ching!
Dec 11 02:08:45 <webOSroundup> hey everyone
Dec 11 02:08:50 <natenrb9> lol…stupid framework docs...
Dec 11 02:08:59 <JenP> hi webOSroundup
Dec 11 02:09:03 <sugardave> well, StageController IS valid
Dec 11 02:09:06 <webOSroundup> how goes it?
Dec 11 02:09:08 <sugardave> but it doesn't really do anything, I think
Dec 11 02:09:15 <sugardave> other than construct them
Dec 11 02:09:43 <natenrb9> sugardave: what's that?
Dec 11 02:09:55 <sugardave> dawm: so, what happens when they stop playing now?
Dec 11 02:10:09 <dawm> im scratchign that idea
Dec 11 02:10:11 <sugardave> natenrb9: I think StageController is a constructor function to make a new stage controller
Dec 11 02:10:18 <dawm> just gonna animate the board dropping out completely
Dec 11 02:10:24 <webOSroundup> hey dawm
Dec 11 02:10:34 <dawm> hey david, level mode is almost done :P
Dec 11 02:10:40 <natenrb9> sugardave: still not understanding...?
Dec 11 02:10:41 <webOSroundup> sweet!!
Dec 11 02:10:52 <dawm> 11 levels total, ive only been able to get to 7 i think
Dec 11 02:10:53 <webOSroundup> that will be a big bonus
Dec 11 02:10:53 <sugardave> natenrb9: it's probably because I don't really know what I'm talking about
Dec 11 02:10:59 <natenrb9> lol
Dec 11 02:11:13 <natenrb9> are you trying to explain why the docs have Stage with capitol S?
Dec 11 02:11:15 <sugardave> but if you wanted to create a stage controller via your own code/logic, you would make a new Mojo.Controller.StageController
Dec 11 02:11:19 <sugardave> yes
Dec 11 02:11:22 <natenrb9> ah
Dec 11 02:11:30 <natenrb9> no idea
Dec 11 02:11:40 <natenrb9> all I know is capitol S blows and doesn't work
Dec 11 02:11:43 <sugardave> haha
Dec 11 02:11:45 <natenrb9> and little s works :)
Dec 11 02:34:12 <sugardave> hmmm....guess it might be time to learn some 3D stuff....that ought to be a walk in the park *huge eye roll*
Dec 11 02:41:23 <dawm> hrm
Dec 11 02:41:34 <dawm> is it possible to get a function wait until the one before it finishes?
Dec 11 02:41:38 <dawm> pissing me off
Dec 11 02:44:46 <FoxFireX> Pretty much single threaded in JS, sorry.
Dec 11 02:44:53 <dawm> grr
Dec 11 02:45:11 <rick_home> dawm  ignore what he said
Dec 11 02:45:13 <dawm> got a nice dropout effect for the gameboard, but the new board draws ontop of it
Dec 11 02:45:15 <FoxFireX> Have to do stuff like that through callbacks and the like.
Dec 11 02:45:20 <rick_home> it _is_ possible.
Dec 11 02:45:32 <FoxFireX> This I gotta hear. :)
Dec 11 02:45:47 <rick_home> webOS specifically has an API designed specifically for that purpose.
Dec 11 02:45:56 <dawm> oh?
Dec 11 02:45:59 <FoxFireX> Oh, that's right.
Dec 11 02:46:10 <FoxFireX> Synchronize, right?
Dec 11 02:46:14 <rick_home> Basically, what it does is, it waits until _all_ the callbacks for a series of functions fire, and when that happens it fires _its_ callback
Dec 11 02:46:32 <rick_home> http://developer.palm.com/palm-sdk/jsdoc/symbols/Mojo.Function.Synchronize.html
Dec 11 02:46:38 <rick_home> it's -very- useful
Dec 11 02:46:43 <dawm> api link?
Dec 11 02:46:48 <rick_home> complex to set up the first couple of times, but VERY useful.
Dec 11 02:47:28 <rick_home> ranks right up there with mojo,function  used to debounce function calls in needful things on the plateform.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Dec 11 02:59:56 2009