**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 12 02:59:56 2010 Jan 12 03:01:53 just trying to match "b1.jpg" but in regex Jan 12 03:02:20 i think it is right except for the period not sure how to do that in regex Jan 12 03:02:25 LoneStar99: but, do you also want to match, say, b10.jpg? What about b10.jpeg? Jan 12 03:03:11 As for the period, you can use [.] or \. Jan 12 03:03:46 jeffwheeler: neah just jpg Jan 12 03:04:04 does anyone know how frequently the "my apps" page updates reviews and purchases? Jan 12 03:04:25 LoneStar99: so, what exactly do you want to be able to change? Just the digit? Jan 12 03:04:42 If you _just_ want to match b1.jpg, why are you using a regex? Jan 12 03:07:26 jeffwheeler: b/c the images will be dynamic, but in "b1.jpg" format Jan 12 03:08:07 So, which part is dynamic? Just the digit? Should multiple digits be matched? Jan 12 03:09:09 every part, yeah need double digits Jan 12 03:09:24 every part dynamic Jan 12 03:09:41 So, what /shouldn't/ be valid? Jan 12 03:09:58 You need to define what should match more carefully. Jan 12 03:12:07 "b10.jpg-b99.jpg" "b1-b9.jpg" that is the range Jan 12 03:12:31 your university invented the browser Jan 12 03:12:45 So, then start your regex with /just/ 'b', not '[a-z]'. Jan 12 03:12:50 LoneStar99: we did a lot of things :) Jan 12 03:13:20 Then you have b[0-9].[a-z][a-z][a-z], right? Jan 12 03:13:39 The next bit is close, but you wanted to allow "one or more" digits. There's an operator for that. Jan 12 03:13:59 but the browser is most innovative software of our time. Jan 12 03:14:14 LoneStar99: haha; it's pretty important Jan 12 03:14:31 I went to Illinois because, well, they impressed me. I'm from Texas. Jan 12 03:14:41 without the browser, we would be communicating via telnet Jan 12 03:14:49 Or, say, IRC? ;) Jan 12 03:14:58 oh yeah irc Jan 12 03:15:15 or brick cellular phones Jan 12 03:16:51 Hmm, http://developer.palm.com/webChannel/index.php?packageid=com.jeffwheeler.cumtd isn't updating quickly. :( Jan 12 03:17:03 They reviewed my app in a few hours though; that was cool Jan 12 03:17:21 cool Jan 12 03:17:34 my update is still queing Jan 12 03:17:55 sorry the browser is just the windows of the internet... text based browsing existed before gui browsing Jan 12 03:18:46 well, yeah, i should have said GUI browser Jan 12 03:19:36 i love freebsd without a GUI, but a non-gui browser is plan boring... Jan 12 03:20:01 and lame Jan 12 03:20:55 Whoever @Adora is, thanks for adding me to your twitter list. Jan 12 03:21:06 oh, hi =] Jan 12 03:21:21 I saw the notes in your app and decided to do some research Jan 12 03:21:35 Thanks :) Jan 12 03:21:53 so you're going to intern here in the summer? Jan 12 03:22:08 Adora: yep Jan 12 03:22:18 You're a Palm employee? Jan 12 03:22:34 yessir Jan 12 03:22:44 I'm on the developer relations team Jan 12 03:22:56 Adora: ah, nice to meet you Jan 12 03:22:58 app review - which is how I saw your reviewer's note Jan 12 03:23:08 Adora: oh, yep Jan 12 03:24:04 I was actually juuuuuust about to head out, but I'd still like to chat with you later Jan 12 03:24:11 will you be here tomorrow? Jan 12 03:24:16 Adora: probably Jan 12 03:24:46 Adora: we where just discussing how cool text-web browsing is and how much cooler brick phones are than smartphones Jan 12 03:25:09 text > * Jan 12 03:25:32 take your voicemail and podcasts and shove it Jan 12 03:25:57 * jeffwheeler would rather have a phone without voice Jan 12 03:26:23 yeah, no need for color, monochrome crt monitors is the way to go Jan 12 03:28:05 jeffwheeler: instead of hardcoding "jpg" what could I do, I was thinking regex would work for me, but not in this case... Jan 12 03:28:32 What extensions are you trying to match? Jan 12 03:29:38 just "jpg, gif, and png" but dynamically, have seen code in php before, but not sure where to look Jan 12 03:30:08 LoneStar99: Regex's can match alternatives; say, like, (jpg|gif|png) Jan 12 03:32:11 i realized that the only thing being passed is "b1" but somehow need to add either (jpg|gif|png) as an extension Jan 12 03:34:15 would love to save all files as png, but png are space hoggers Jan 12 03:34:56 then jpg, ain't transparent Jan 12 03:35:06 LoneStar99: I don't understand what you're trying to do; you're not looking to match against a string at all, are you? Jan 12 03:35:55 jeffwheeler: i guess not, i just realized that... was thinking regex would somehow do some magic... Jan 12 03:49:53 jeffwheeler: thanks 4 your help Jan 12 03:50:01 LoneStar99: sure Jan 12 03:55:45 if images b1-b5 are jpg and b6-b10 are png? what is good way to build logic? Jan 12 03:59:17 What's the operation you're trying to do? Given an integer 1-10, build the filename? Jan 12 04:00:28 yeah Jan 12 04:00:46 1- 5 jpg 6 -10 png Jan 12 04:01:17 So, you're trying to build a function that accepts an integer and returns a string like "b1.jpg"? Jan 12 04:01:51 Say, like: var buildFilename = function(n) { . . . }, where buildFilename(1) == "b1.jpg" Jan 12 04:04:06 what I am trying to do is a sort of loop to avoid bloating my app with code Jan 12 04:04:23 Okay? Jan 12 04:06:11 this what i have so far Jan 12 04:06:14 http://www.pastebin.org/74700 Jan 12 04:11:55 Damn media center died Jan 12 04:14:58 media center windows? Jan 12 04:15:43 Yes Jan 12 04:16:05 Had a bad stick of ram Jan 12 04:17:05 the entire OS died? Jan 12 04:19:09 the computer died Jan 12 04:20:51 damn, nuts... just like that... it probably had escalating problems, and finally died, is it just the OS or the harddrive? Jan 12 04:21:18 I just told you. It had a bad stick of ram. Pulled it out. Started right up again Jan 12 04:22:33 Oh RAM, was thinking USB flash drive.... LOL Jan 12 04:58:05 jeffwheeler: end up doing a if (event.target.id.replace(/\D/g, '') >= 6) { var ext = '.png'; Jan 12 05:49:10 Anyone know advantages of webos compared to android? Jan 12 05:50:03 iDialekt: Preware ;-) Jan 12 05:50:13 ? Jan 12 05:50:17 What's that ? Jan 12 05:56:14 ???? rwhitby Jan 12 05:56:49 open standard homebrew ecosystem Jan 12 05:57:21 http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/preware Jan 12 05:57:26 "Preware is a package management application for the Palm Pre. Preware allows the user to install any package from any of the open standard package repositories on preware.org (or any other location that hosts an open standard package repository). Preware relies on a custom written service developed from community research which allows the mojo app to talk to the built-in ipkg tool" Jan 12 05:57:36 Is it legal? Supported by Palm? Jan 12 05:57:43 Yes, No. Jan 12 05:58:15 Palm doesn't support it, but is very happy that it exists. Jan 12 05:58:20 What map software does the pre have? Jan 12 06:02:25 google or sprint Jan 12 07:17:11 Hm Jan 12 07:17:21 I'm sick of platform wars Jan 12 08:31:47 so does anyone today have an idea why my activitybutton made in ares has no label? Jan 12 08:31:59 although it has a lable it is not being shown in the emu nor the device Jan 12 08:55:02 heya Jan 12 08:55:10 just updated to 1.3.5.2 :) Jan 12 09:00:22 me too Jan 12 09:00:36 now my app kinda does not work properly Jan 12 09:00:45 then again, maybe this thing never worked in the first place Jan 12 09:01:31 heh Jan 12 09:01:34 which app? Jan 12 09:10:07 good morning.. Jan 12 09:10:14 so.. most of morning is done ;) Jan 12 09:10:27 just updating to 1.3.5.2... Jan 12 09:13:16 good morning Jan 12 09:13:24 i've just updated too .. no problems so far Jan 12 09:16:34 problem with downloading.. seams that are a lot of updating users are working :) Jan 12 09:17:17 3g or wifi? Jan 12 09:17:27 wifi Jan 12 09:17:43 but it's woring.. step by step.. Jan 12 09:17:48 noaXess: it takes a number of attempts, but is incremental Jan 12 09:17:49 working ^ Jan 12 09:17:59 yes is see Jan 12 09:18:16 you can see the progress in /var/lib/update/... Jan 12 09:18:55 EPR and EMH worked great, rwhitby Jan 12 09:19:30 swisstomcat: excellent. I was noting that the number of tweets of people having problems in .eu were much less than we had for .us Jan 12 09:20:08 i'm glad that i donated .. good stuff keeps coming from webos-internals Jan 12 09:20:22 is anyone here alpha testing Preware with app catalog integration? Jan 12 09:20:29 no Jan 12 09:20:40 shall i? Jan 12 09:20:44 please Jan 12 09:20:55 let me know how ... Jan 12 09:21:04 there are some Update All corner cases which we need to fix, but everything else seems very stable Jan 12 09:21:06 before i check the wiki Jan 12 09:22:03 last three lines on preware wiki page Jan 12 09:24:08 the bootstrap stuff? Jan 12 09:24:55 swisstomcat: yes Jan 12 09:25:03 and say Y to alpha testing when it asks Jan 12 09:25:14 ok, i'll install and report back Jan 12 09:26:00 rwhitby: i have preware installed.. but think not alpha testing.. but i can.. if you need some more tester and informations.. Jan 12 09:26:10 but first, upgrading to 1.3.5.2 Jan 12 09:26:12 :) Jan 12 09:26:25 noaXess: last three lines of the wiki page Jan 12 09:26:38 it will add signed package support and access to the app catalog from Preware Jan 12 09:27:00 will check back here, if my pre is on 1.3.5.2 Jan 12 09:27:01 pretty cool to wget something on your phone Jan 12 09:27:40 serious nerdness if you ssh into your phone :) Jan 12 09:29:23 swisstomcat: jep.. fine tools.. Jan 12 09:29:36 is it normal, that unpacking update files needs time? Jan 12 09:29:44 yeah Jan 12 09:29:49 it took longer than downloading Jan 12 09:29:50 ok.. so.. be patient.. Jan 12 09:29:55 yup Jan 12 09:31:28 unpacking takes a very long time, cause it's applying binary diffs to ipkgs Jan 12 09:33:02 that's why this update is only 12mb .. 1.3.1 was over 100mb Jan 12 09:33:04 ? Jan 12 09:34:16 yep Jan 12 09:34:23 ok, installed Jan 12 09:34:42 first time it starts,it refreshes the feeds but doesn't show the new ones Jan 12 09:34:48 had to refresh feeds again Jan 12 09:36:04 swisstomcat: do you have the feeds set to daily or manual refresh? Jan 12 09:36:13 let me check Jan 12 09:36:26 every launch Jan 12 09:36:42 although i had it on daily before updating Jan 12 09:37:03 it's faster than the app catalog for sure :) Jan 12 09:37:12 the force-install nature of the alpha testing blows away the cookie Jan 12 09:37:47 i even see the paid apps Jan 12 09:37:48 swisstomcat: yes, we tend towards front-loading. Preware can actually run from files cached on the Pre when disconnected from the network. Jan 12 09:37:58 a good thing imho Jan 12 09:38:13 anything specific you would like to have tested? Jan 12 09:38:17 you can set the second line in the listing page to show price instead of version and author Jan 12 09:38:30 swisstomcat: just generally being able to install and remove packages Jan 12 09:38:48 we haven't added any sorting or filtering based on price yet, but that will come Jan 12 09:38:59 screenshots should work on app catalog apps Jan 12 09:39:08 (better than the app catalog in my opinion) Jan 12 09:39:24 in europe we can't buy apps yet .. how will that work? Jan 12 09:39:49 try it Jan 12 09:40:00 ok, tapping on install goes to the app catalog which says "this app is not available in your country" Jan 12 09:40:04 dang, so close :) Jan 12 09:40:06 yep Jan 12 09:40:29 but you do get access to web channel apps, which you cannot see in app catalog normally Jan 12 09:41:51 a filtering or a message would be great for europe until march Jan 12 09:42:55 or even a filter down in the command-menu (similar to A-Z and Time) on the package list Jan 12 09:45:00 yep Jan 12 09:47:07 install now :) Jan 12 09:48:34 installed an app, works Jan 12 09:49:29 anything specific to test, rwhitby? Jan 12 09:49:58 the main things added are signed packages, update all button and app catalog feeds Jan 12 09:51:25 app catalog feed works so far Jan 12 09:52:50 1465 available packages .. cool Jan 12 09:54:42 feel free to pass the word on the alpha testing Jan 12 09:55:00 I'll probably release it tomorrow after the 1.3.5.2 upgrading dust has settled Jan 12 09:55:43 it will automatically show an update if I make any other changes in the meantime (I'll bump the version) Jan 12 09:58:18 will it include the filtering? Jan 12 09:58:32 i think that's an important thing to have for europeans Jan 12 10:00:14 depends if anyone volunteers to help code it, or if I find the time :-) Jan 12 10:02:55 i guess i could help Jan 12 10:03:27 i don't really feel qualified yet to mess around in preware tho Jan 12 10:03:34 what about my old apps i have installed from preware? they are gone with the 1.3.5.2 update? Jan 12 10:03:39 theme, patches,... Jan 12 10:03:51 noaXess: you need to start EMH to get them back Jan 12 10:03:59 emh? Jan 12 10:04:02 EMH = Emergency Migration Helper Jan 12 10:04:09 in preware Jan 12 10:04:17 so an app Jan 12 10:04:49 available packages - linux application - all Jan 12 10:04:56 ok Jan 12 10:05:00 emergency migration helper Jan 12 10:05:09 this will move the homebrew stuff to the new location Jan 12 10:05:21 aha Jan 12 10:05:39 because 1.3.5.x brought the app limit fix Jan 12 10:06:07 rwhitby: how could i mess with preware to add the filter? Jan 12 10:06:48 swisstomcat: git clone git://git.webos-internals.org/applications/preware.git Jan 12 10:07:19 noaXess: and you should have removed themes and patches before upgrade, or you're going to be in a world of hurt Jan 12 10:08:22 rwhitby: so.. now i have upgraded... to 1.3.5.2 and not removed themes and patches.. what will EMH do?... uninstall not compatible patches? Jan 12 10:08:45 noaXess: you want to run EPR as soon as possible and hope it works Jan 12 10:08:55 but the theme will probably stop it Jan 12 10:08:57 rwhitby: after EMH? Jan 12 10:09:01 or first? Jan 12 10:09:01 before Jan 12 10:09:33 ok.. also now :) Jan 12 10:09:34 didn't you see my tweets on @webosinternals, or the comments on the precentral article, or the posts in the 3 1.3.5.2 threads on precentral? Jan 12 10:10:10 rwhitby: not read.. just saw on pre, that there is an upgrade.. Jan 12 10:10:21 even @webOSDev retweeted the upgrade warning Jan 12 10:10:49 some people don't know about all those information sources Jan 12 10:10:51 okay.. my fault.. Jan 12 10:11:04 but.. no prob.. if i need to reset my device.. Jan 12 10:11:10 noaXess: no blame, just working out what we can do extra to reach everyone Jan 12 10:11:33 i wonder how you could reach even more people Jan 12 10:11:50 rwhitby: hm.. why not publishing information like this in preware on the pre/pixi.. after a check? Jan 12 10:11:51 although if someone knows about preware, they should know about how to check for info Jan 12 10:12:02 yes Jan 12 10:12:21 the update is official palm, but to run epr/emh not Jan 12 10:12:24 swisstomcat: are there any major .eu sites that I don't know about that are comperable to precentral.net ? Jan 12 10:12:33 i just programming other things now.. and pre upgrade is just a second job i do... on the side.. Jan 12 10:12:35 i only know of webos-blog.de Jan 12 10:12:57 not comparable to precentral tho Jan 12 10:13:01 and nexave.de Jan 12 10:13:06 a big forum Jan 12 10:13:32 maybe a message in preware would be good Jan 12 10:13:46 a search for preware on webos-blog.de doesn't give much Jan 12 10:14:27 my lack of german language skills will be a problem for me there. Jan 12 10:17:00 i see a post about 1.3.5.2 is at nexave Jan 12 10:17:18 noaXess: same here ... side job Jan 12 10:17:40 :) Jan 12 10:19:33 so, what combinations of version, author, license, price, date, etc would you like on the second line of the Preware listing view? Jan 12 10:19:45 (see the Preferences for the existing choices) Jan 12 10:19:56 not mention of EPR/EMH in the 1.3.5.2 update thread on nexave Jan 12 10:20:37 is it correct that EPR has removed not 1-3-5-2 compatible patches? so my pre works.... Jan 12 10:20:50 need just install the patches and my theme again.. Jan 12 10:20:54 i think it removes all patches? Jan 12 10:21:18 it removes all patches Jan 12 10:22:00 when we deploy auto-update patch technology there will no longer be such a need to remove and reinstall Jan 12 10:22:55 maybe some choice where price is included Jan 12 10:23:10 that way you can see the paid apps at a glance Jan 12 10:23:44 ok.. yes it removes all patches.. and themes.. Jan 12 10:24:16 there should be any information after an upgrade.. a list of installed patches/themes taht are removed with EPR Jan 12 10:25:19 noaXess: we'd rather work on making the removal unnecessary, rather than adding stuff that will not be used soon Jan 12 10:25:44 rwhitby: okay.. nice.. :) Jan 12 10:27:09 i posted on nexave about EPR and EMH Jan 12 10:27:15 See http://bit.ly/preware-feature-roadmap for more details of future plans. Jan 12 10:27:23 swisstomcat: thanks Jan 12 10:28:37 maybe a translation of the most important wiki pages? Jan 12 10:28:50 is that even possible? Jan 12 10:29:55 if someone wants to create translations, we will definitely give them prominent placing Jan 12 10:30:13 a developer has already volunteered to update Preware for localisation Jan 12 10:30:36 in german? Jan 12 10:30:42 we can do that :) Jan 12 10:31:11 rwhitby: i was also thinking about wiki translation .. if that's possible Jan 12 10:32:49 swisstomcat: he has volunteered for french, but that will make other languages possible too Jan 12 10:33:15 i will volunteer for german then Jan 12 10:34:25 ok, I'll let you know when I've incorporated the framework. it won't be this week though. Jan 12 10:34:38 tomcat@inorbit.ch Jan 12 10:35:05 what about the wiki .. would that help to have some pages in german? Jan 12 10:37:42 sure Jan 12 10:39:22 how would that work? Jan 12 10:39:47 dunno, I don't think the wiki software is set up for multi-language. Jan 12 10:41:05 back to the preware listing Jan 12 10:41:26 version,price,maintainer would be good Jan 12 10:42:43 version,maintainer,price or price,version,maintainer Jan 12 10:43:06 here's my thought process on app catalogs Jan 12 10:43:27 I go to an app catalog with a specific need in mind. There is some functionality missing from my Pre, and I need an app to do it. Jan 12 10:43:34 I call this the discovery phase. Jan 12 10:43:54 In the discovery phase, I don't care which feed, or which author, or which version or even what price. Jan 12 10:44:02 I just want to find all the apps that do what I need to do. Jan 12 10:44:14 Once I have all those apps found, I move to the selection phase. Jan 12 10:44:52 To see if an app meets my needs, I'll look at the icon, the description and the screenshots Jan 12 10:45:07 Once I move to selection phase, then I want to see price, feed, license, version, author, ratings, reviews etc. Jan 12 10:46:01 hmm Jan 12 10:46:11 until march the price is important Jan 12 10:46:20 in europe Jan 12 10:46:28 yes, agreed. so price first on the second line Jan 12 10:46:35 but maybe that should be in a general setting Jan 12 10:46:47 price, version, maintainer is then a good choice Jan 12 10:46:50 after march i agree with yoru thought process Jan 12 10:47:36 or could preware know that it's in europe? Jan 12 10:48:12 at the moment it does not Jan 12 10:48:28 the process now is: discover an app, hit install -> app catalog starts -> beep, try again .. it's not available in your country Jan 12 10:48:48 yes, that it very inconvenient Jan 12 10:48:58 the user will be "well, why did you not tell me that before?" Jan 12 10:49:16 so does having the price in the second line fix that until we can work out how to know which app catalog you are accessing? Jan 12 10:49:27 (although some people want to know what they are missing out on ...) Jan 12 10:49:38 probably Jan 12 10:49:48 that way people know .. ahh, it has a price so i can't install it Jan 12 10:50:03 does the palm-feed have the country information? Jan 12 10:50:16 yes, but I ignore it at the moment. Jan 12 10:50:54 Looks like I need to pass that through on the server, and then get preware to do something with it. Jan 12 10:51:00 what does it say for e.g need for speed? Jan 12 10:51:45 in the device info it says "model: P100UEU" Jan 12 10:52:01 that could be the information for a filter? Jan 12 10:55:41 time for lunch ... BBL Jan 12 10:56:21 weird, NFS is not in the XML feed Jan 12 10:57:35 looks like the RSS XML only has countryCode US Jan 12 11:30:40 rehi Jan 12 11:32:50 what did i miss? Jan 12 11:33:01 is it possible saving the list of installed patches to a file + re-install them after an WebOS update based on the content of this list? Jan 12 11:33:39 i have a lot of patches installed and re-installing them all after each update is a PITA Jan 12 11:33:53 eliasp: http://bit.ly/preware-feature-roadmap Jan 12 11:34:07 rwhitby: ah, it seems it is planned... thx a lot ;) Jan 12 11:34:31 eliasp: It's also possibly worth using it as an opportunity to only install the patches you actually want :) Jan 12 11:35:00 Maulkin: hehe, true true... but actually i've installed way more patches than i had before after the last update ;) Jan 12 11:37:06 if you really need the list now, you can use ipkg -o /var list_installed | grep patches Jan 12 11:37:25 rwhitby: ah great... this helps me a lot, thx! Jan 12 11:37:30 for 1.3.5+, that changes to ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps list_installed | grep patches Jan 12 11:38:31 just don't try and install them via the command line unless you know exactly the right command for providing the IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT variable to the post-install script. Use Preware to reinstall them Jan 12 11:38:36 i'm still on 1.3.1... Jan 12 11:38:47 yes, having a list is ok ATM.... Jan 12 11:39:05 a german user reports that preware doesn't work anymore after the update ... after clicking "install", nothing happens Jan 12 11:39:25 uhm, i hope this isn't the case here too... i'm a German o2 user too.. ;-/ Jan 12 11:39:29 let's see... Jan 12 11:39:33 no risk - no fun ;) Jan 12 11:39:44 i had no problems with my gsm pre Jan 12 11:39:49 ok Jan 12 11:40:21 the most common cause is running an old version. They need to upgrade to Preware 0.9.12 and Package Manager Service 0.9.29 *before* upgrading. Jan 12 11:40:39 If they forgot to do that, they need to reinstall those versions using WebOS Quick Install 2.96 Jan 12 11:40:40 i asked him to check the versions Jan 12 11:40:51 Any previous versions of any of those packages or tools will *not* work. Jan 12 11:41:16 Then they need to have removed all webos quick install tweaks, any themes, and any patches before upgrading. Jan 12 11:41:27 and then run emergency migration helper after migrating. Jan 12 11:42:16 this has been tested many times on the 1.3.5.1 update in the .us, and I personally tested the upgrade procedure to 1.3.52 on my main GSM phone in Australia today. Jan 12 11:42:41 the WOQI method is still the recommended one? Jan 12 11:43:08 http://install.preware.org/ is the recommended way to install or reinstall Preware Jan 12 11:43:45 people seem confused Jan 12 11:45:34 some try get.preware.org Jan 12 11:46:17 i'm following the 1.3.5.2 thread on nexave.de Jan 12 11:49:46 is the 1.3.5.2 webosdoctor already available? or can you use and older one to get WebOSQuickInstall working? Jan 12 11:50:09 are the ipk's for preware available somewhere to install with the SDK? Jan 12 11:51:27 so.. need to meet a customer... and selling my web-cms :) Jan 12 11:53:37 If you have the SDK installed, then you don't need the webOS Doctor to use WebOS Quick Install, cause you already have the novacom drivers installed. Jan 12 11:54:00 the SDK palm-install *cannot* install the Package Manager Service ipkgs. Jan 12 11:54:16 it will not run the post-install scripts. Jan 12 11:54:36 oh, good to know Jan 12 11:54:44 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware is the official wiki page, and it has all the possible install options listed. Jan 12 11:55:11 if it is not listed there, it will not work. fileCoaster, SDK, PreLoad, all will not work. Jan 12 11:55:26 swisstomcat: thx for passing on information Jan 12 11:56:05 several people on the thread say "preware doesn't work anymore after the update" Jan 12 11:56:41 they are wrong. they either did not update to the latest version before, or have used an old version of webos quick install after. Jan 12 11:56:56 i think they didn't know that they had to update Jan 12 11:57:14 then they should follow @webosinternals on twitter :-) Jan 12 11:57:49 In all cases, they should follow http://install.preware.org/ to reinstall the correct versions using the correct version of WebOS Quick Install. Jan 12 11:57:58 i wonder what the best way is to inform most of the people Jan 12 11:58:19 do you need the 1.3.5.2 doctor for webosquickinstall? Jan 12 11:58:45 We put out these updates to Preware weeks ago. People must have been ignoring the Package Updates section every time they started Preware since. Jan 12 11:59:26 any 1.3.5 version of the doctor will do for webos quick install to install preware, even for a different carrier. Jan 12 11:59:39 They are all listed on http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Webos_Doctor_Versions Jan 12 12:00:28 good to know Jan 12 12:01:03 let me see if i could download the latest o2 germany doctor Jan 12 12:01:12 otherwise i couldn't use webosquickinstall Jan 12 12:01:49 the problem is that preware doesn't know about the system updater and vice versa. otherwise preware could say: mandatory update needed Jan 12 12:04:41 preware can't predict when palm will release an update Jan 12 12:06:59 the good news is that this particular update is the worst case scenario Jan 12 12:07:13 the webos doctor page on palm germany still points to 1.3.1 Jan 12 12:07:19 so it is a good educational experience for most people Jan 12 12:07:36 that will be good enough for webos quick install to install preware Jan 12 12:07:42 ah, ok Jan 12 12:08:19 downloading webosquickinstall and webosdoctor is probably too technical already for some people Jan 12 12:11:00 yep, unfortunately, there is no easier way which can successfully install a tool like preware which can operate as the root user on the device Jan 12 12:18:05 could there a pre-preware that checks if it's current enough to actually run and then call the main-preware and otherwise display an update message? the pre-preware would not have dependencies Jan 12 12:19:14 how does the pre-preware know what version the main-preware is required to be? Jan 12 12:19:29 it can't predict what version of preware will be required for a new release of webOS Jan 12 12:19:46 and you can't encode that information in the pre-preware, cause it will get out of date when people don't update it Jan 12 12:21:02 pre-preware loads it's information from a feed too Jan 12 12:21:51 sounds like an extra delay for everyone, because of those that don't follow instructions. not a good deal for those who do follow instrutions. Jan 12 12:22:08 true Jan 12 12:22:22 but some people don't know that there are instructions Jan 12 12:22:39 some people can't read them Jan 12 12:22:42 in general, preware has worked flawlessly across all previous webOS upgrades. as I said, this one is the exception. Jan 12 12:22:47 some people don't bother to read them Jan 12 12:23:44 you just need to come to terms that some people will never be able to run Preware, and not worry too much about it. Jan 12 12:24:44 Basically, I listen to systematic or widespread problems, and usually ignore individual setup problems unless I happen to be in a generous mood :-) Jan 12 12:25:09 agreed, choose your problems to work on well Jan 12 12:26:18 e.g. adding Price,Version,Maintainer and Price,Version,Date and Price,License options to Preware second line :-) Jan 12 12:26:55 and realising that the app catalog has *no* licensing information associated with applications. Jan 12 12:27:51 raising awareness about keeping your preware updated works too .. in all languages Jan 12 12:28:11 someone asks how to check your package manager version if preware doesn't work anymore Jan 12 12:33:22 Use WebOS Quick Install Jan 12 12:33:32 http://install.preware.org/ Jan 12 13:06:28 swisstomcat: if you run that preware-bootstrap script again, and allow it to reinstall preware, you will get the additional second line options including price Jan 12 13:08:02 you're fast! Jan 12 13:08:22 will do in a minute Jan 12 13:09:00 *downloading supertux* Jan 12 13:09:20 over 3G Jan 12 13:14:21 rwhitby: had a similar problem ... what if you can't reach the feed to install preware through webosquickinstall? (e.g firewall) Jan 12 13:14:40 in my case if found a public wifi Jan 12 13:25:22 swisstomcat: then you cannot install preware Jan 12 13:25:47 yeah, i was stumped until i found that public wifi Jan 12 13:26:33 why not offer the ipk's to download in such cases? to install with WOQI? Jan 12 13:27:12 i had another machine available with internet access but could not install WOQI on it Jan 12 13:27:20 a rather special use-case, i agree Jan 12 13:27:41 you'll probably go crazy if you implement every use-case :) Jan 12 13:28:11 how can i check the install progress for supertux? Jan 12 13:29:49 * Maulkin grumbles about supertux not respecting the mute slider Jan 12 13:49:44 sh preware-bootstrap hangs on installing org.webosinternal.preware v0.9.14: Jan 12 13:49:53 any ideas, rwhitby? Jan 12 13:50:42 swisstomcat: if wosqi cannot access the internet to get the ipkg file, then how can I offer it another way? Jan 12 13:51:12 swisstomcat: all preware feeds are at http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/ Jan 12 13:51:36 rwhitby: i could not reach the internet from the machine where wosqi was installed and could not install wosqi on the machine where internet was available Jan 12 13:51:42 like i said, a special use-case Jan 12 13:51:58 ok, so you can download the ipkgs from the feeds and then use wosqi to install them Jan 12 13:52:38 good to know, thanks Jan 12 13:52:49 any idea about the bootstrap problem? Jan 12 13:52:55 it's still hanging Jan 12 13:53:11 nope Jan 12 13:53:23 it would usually mean a network problem Jan 12 13:53:40 you can run the script with "sh -x preware-bootstrap" to see exactly what it is doing Jan 12 13:53:55 So, for sorting by price, I have the following dividers: Jan 12 13:55:11 Free, Less Than $1, Less Than $2, Less Than $5, Less Than $10, $10 Or Greater Jan 12 13:56:08 will try as soon as the bootstrap finishes Jan 12 13:57:08 oh, I haven't released that yet - just asking for feedback on the categories Jan 12 13:57:14 oh Jan 12 13:57:26 still bootstrapping Jan 12 13:57:53 seems to hang on wget Jan 12 13:59:07 network problem then Jan 12 13:59:17 wonder if anyone would want to work on an app I have an idea for Jan 12 13:59:19 with me Jan 12 13:59:41 dogwater: what idea? Jan 12 14:00:15 wget http://bit.ly/preware-bootstrap worked Jan 12 14:01:05 swisstomcat: are you downloading over GSM? Jan 12 14:01:17 yeah :( Jan 12 14:01:30 how big is it? Jan 12 14:01:35 there is some problem with GSM and wget, which we haven't worked out yet. Jan 12 14:01:49 it worked the first time to update preware to the alpha version Jan 12 14:02:08 yes, it is deterministic Jan 12 14:02:48 i did sh +x preware-bootstrap and the last line is "+wget .... ipkgservice_0.9.30_all.ipk" Jan 12 14:03:01 nothing since then Jan 12 14:03:12 any idea how to debug? Jan 12 14:05:13 reboot? Jan 12 14:07:46 I have never experienced the problem myself, so do not know how to debug it yet) Jan 12 14:09:35 man, my gf's pre won't charge or connect via usb anymore so i gotta go to the sprint store today Jan 12 14:09:37 ugh Jan 12 14:10:03 rebooted and it installed the service but seems to hang on wget preware :( Jan 12 14:11:06 rwhitby: i know that situation Jan 12 14:12:17 i guess i have to wait for wifi at home Jan 12 14:12:27 still hanging Jan 12 14:13:01 meanwhile, I have added sorting by price :-) Jan 12 14:13:27 DogWater: have you tried removing battery? Jan 12 14:13:44 i wonder what /usr/bin/mobilehotspotd is :) Jan 12 14:14:44 haeffb_pre: it charges on the touchstone Jan 12 14:15:06 after i cancel the hanging bootstrap, wget to get the bootstrap works Jan 12 14:15:23 swisstomcat: it's a dbus service Jan 12 14:15:33 com.palm.mobilehotspot Jan 12 14:15:45 wife's pixi did the same thing. removing battery for a bit fixed it. worth a try before you fo to Sprint. Jan 12 14:16:23 it sucessfully downloads the service and then seems to hang on wgetting preware itself Jan 12 14:17:04 haeffb_pre: her phone just seems insane, the whole thing slides apart from side to side in your hand when it's closed Jan 12 14:17:28 not it worked! Jan 12 14:17:32 ok, that's a different issue then Jan 12 14:18:29 i'll try your idea and see if it helps but i have no idea why that would work Jan 12 14:18:30 rwhitby: sorry, can't debug it anymore .. it finally worked Jan 12 14:19:56 swisstomcat: yeah, quite non-deterministic Jan 12 14:20:04 rwhitby: thumbs up on the price/version/maintainer option Jan 12 14:20:07 swisstomcat: but you might have got price sorting :-) Jan 12 14:20:11 hey haeffb: Jan 12 14:20:37 rwhitby: thumbs up on the price sorting as well Jan 12 14:20:43 good Jan 12 14:20:59 where do i pay? ;) Jan 12 14:21:16 swisstomcat: pay for what? Jan 12 14:21:28 the preware update :) Jan 12 14:22:01 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS_Internals:Site_support Jan 12 14:22:14 i like it .. an elegant solution until we get paid apps in europe Jan 12 14:22:30 So currently there would be no way to write an app that uses software like linux's rsync for webos, eh? Jan 12 14:22:47 maybe with the PDK Jan 12 14:23:26 DogWater: sure there is. webos-internals.org does it all the time Jan 12 14:23:40 rwhitby: one thing i notice: sorting by "A-Z" does not have dividers (yet) Jan 12 14:23:45 rwhitby: I mean a consumer app, not something that is cooked up in someone's garage Jan 12 14:24:07 DogWater: hmm - I think you have a very skewed idea about homebrew Jan 12 14:24:57 I just dont think most people are going to root their phones no matter how easy it might be. Jan 12 14:25:11 no such thing as rooting a Pre Jan 12 14:25:44 but you are correct, that no such software would be accepted into the Palm App Catalog at this time Jan 12 14:26:06 an interesting quote on the german 1.3.5.2 update thread "this reads like a teleconference at nasa before the second stage separation of the saturn v" Jan 12 14:26:07 irrespective of who wrote it, or which room of the house they used. Jan 12 14:26:40 some people just want a phone that works Jan 12 14:26:56 I have nothing against people making homebrew projects, etc but if I were to dev an app I'd want people to be able to get to it using the standard methods Jan 12 14:27:34 DogWater: right, but the simple fact is that you cannot do it with official APIs today, so homebrew is your only choice if you want that functionality Jan 12 14:28:22 swisstomcat : to me it's less messy on A-z without the dividers Jan 12 14:28:24 Right, I was just thinking about a way I could create an app that would automatically sync people's photos/music to servers in my datacenter and they could access that data from anywhere using a browser. Jan 12 14:28:52 yep, you cannot do that with offficial Palm APIs today, but it's dead easy with homebrew. Jan 12 14:29:25 hey Bmyers Jan 12 14:29:40 I suspect eventually palm will just charge like $10/year and let you do it to the same place they store your palm profile. Jan 12 14:30:41 So...the palm feeds...what is the difference between the regular feed and the update feed? Jan 12 14:30:50 the update feed shows updated apps? Jan 12 14:31:00 webOSRoundup: http://bit.ly/palm-catalog-feed explains it Jan 12 14:31:46 I have been reading that, but all it says about the update feeds is "Palm also makes available special update versions of these feeds, as follows:" Jan 12 14:31:52 what makes them special? Jan 12 14:32:07 except they are updated every 30 minutes Jan 12 14:32:11 webOSRoundup: look at the section titled "The Feeds" Jan 12 14:32:38 first table is updated once per day Jan 12 14:32:58 the second is every 30 minutes Jan 12 14:33:00 second table is updated every 30 minutes, with apps from previous 48 hours rolling window Jan 12 14:33:10 so the first is ALL apps Jan 12 14:33:14 yes Jan 12 14:33:24 the second are what, just those who got an update in the last 48 hours? Jan 12 14:33:41 "The update feeds are updated every thirty minutes with those applications added in the 48-hour period before the feed update." Jan 12 14:33:55 well, if anyone wants to work on an app like that with me in the future, i have all of the infrastructure required Jan 12 14:34:12 alrighty Jan 12 14:34:21 heh, so does Google :-) Jan 12 14:34:21 I guess I got it worked out Jan 12 14:34:51 plenty of cloud storage providers to choose from ... Jan 12 14:36:49 You'd need a ton of storage, and perfect historical backups (re: recent lawsuit by a guy who lost his Contacts) Jan 12 14:37:12 we already do that Jan 12 14:37:14 every day Jan 12 14:37:21 for the last 15 years Jan 12 14:37:45 sounds good. Jan 12 14:42:42 rehi noXess Jan 12 14:43:02 * swisstomcat is going home soon to work on the fahrplan app Jan 12 14:51:54 bye all .. see you later Jan 12 14:52:05 later Swiss! Jan 12 15:03:24 Has anyone here had a problem cancelling an app update submission? Jan 12 15:04:19 Clicking "Delete Request" or "Request for Reject" just pops me back to the "My Apps" screen and I can't submit an update until it is cleared Jan 12 15:04:30 or is this the wrong forum... Jan 12 15:05:56 no thats is a manual process Jan 12 15:06:05 you have to wait until someone at palm erases it Jan 12 15:06:09 ah.... Jan 12 15:06:14 or deletes it manually Jan 12 15:06:33 ok... didn't see anything flagged on the submission request Jan 12 15:06:37 yeah we asked the palm team for that to be automated the other day :) Many others are having the issue Jan 12 15:06:54 gotcha, thanks for the info.... Jan 12 15:07:01 any idea on avg turnaround time? Jan 12 15:07:19 Seems to be all over the place... I have 2 apps and one was reviewed in 5 days, another has been there for 2+ weeks Jan 12 15:08:03 Yeah about 2 weeks is the norm for developers. Jan 12 15:12:00 cool... thx again Jan 12 15:13:18 morning folks Jan 12 15:43:35 rehi Jan 12 15:43:45 bluetooth PAN works Jan 12 15:43:57 typing this from the train on a laptop connected to the pre Jan 12 15:44:20 pretomcat: freetether ? Jan 12 15:44:30 pretomcat: awesome Jan 12 15:44:42 nice Jan 12 15:44:48 no, the 1.3.5.2 update Jan 12 15:45:02 .2 ? built-in? Jan 12 15:45:06 no additional software needed Jan 12 15:45:23 sprint phone? Jan 12 15:45:43 http://www.precentral.net/webos-1352-landing-europe Jan 12 15:46:02 gsm pre in switzerland Jan 12 15:46:08 figured.. Jan 12 15:46:20 cant wait until that little ditty makes it way to a patch.. Jan 12 15:46:47 Bmyers agreed Jan 12 15:47:09 i wonder how long it takes for the providers to step in and block it Jan 12 15:47:14 has the 1.3.5.2 doctor arrived in the past hours? i don't want to revert to 1.3.1 and update just once more Jan 12 15:47:27 because orange for example officially doesn't even sell the pre here Jan 12 15:47:45 frostea: i didn't see the german o2 doctor yet a few hours ago Jan 12 15:47:52 pity... Jan 12 15:48:12 hey guys. i got this ajax list that can be pretty long, maybe 100 rows. sometimes when going back to the page with the list, i get white conditions. it's a palm-dark theme Jan 12 15:48:28 any ideas? Jan 12 15:49:34 Bmyers_ a page in the browser or in a webos app Jan 12 15:49:56 regular scene with a list.. Jan 12 15:50:10 it fixes itself if i scoll Jan 12 15:50:19 and you're popping the scene above it, or you're swapping to it? Jan 12 15:50:41 push drills down, pop that scene and return to list scene Jan 12 15:50:56 k Jan 12 15:51:14 put a BUNCH of logs in the activate of the scene, when you push to it, activate runs. Jan 12 15:51:48 maybe go for swapscene and skip the recurring activates? Jan 12 15:51:48 So, one of the questions is, is the ajax request re-running when you pop the above scene and this is revealed? Jan 12 15:51:52 too many tunnels :) Jan 12 15:52:22 Bmyers_ the thing is, use a variable to store "I've been activated" and skip the stuff you don't need to re-do Jan 12 15:52:45 isnt that builtin somewhere with swapscene or put in .ready? Jan 12 15:52:54 this.pushing = true just above the push, then , in activate, if this,pushing = true, Jan 12 15:52:56 only gets .activate 1 time Jan 12 15:52:58 not with pop and push Jan 12 15:53:19 swap ALWAYS fires activate because you're RE-INSTANTIATING it and that means you have to re-do- the ajax Jan 12 15:53:24 which you probably don't want to. Jan 12 15:53:28 Log the hell out of it. Jan 12 15:53:38 how about just check the list length? Jan 12 15:54:04 this data will not change during the drill down. Jan 12 15:54:30 so, don't re-do it on activate. Jan 12 15:54:38 BMyers my real question is however is how long will it take before we can reflash a verizon pre plus to work on sprint Jan 12 15:55:33 CTLAdvance: shouldnt take to long Jan 12 15:55:35 ;-) Jan 12 15:55:54 Rick_work: thanks, I'll do some tinkering. i thought there was one method or another that didnt refire each time your scene becomes active. Jan 12 15:56:01 i want to take apart the europe image and see how they enable Bt pan Jan 12 15:56:10 activate ALWAYS fires Jan 12 15:56:24 was it .ready ? Jan 12 15:56:56 i read that bluetooth pan is not working on the UK pre Jan 12 15:57:09 its on the europe one Jan 12 15:57:49 poor maintainers with 3 different versions Jan 12 15:58:43 pretomcat: what u mean Jan 12 15:58:44 ? Jan 12 15:59:35 1.3.5.1 for the us, 1.3.5.2 for europe and 1.3.5.2 for uk Jan 12 15:59:36 different features Jan 12 16:00:03 awww its all good Jan 12 16:00:31 because some carriers allow stuff others dont Jan 12 16:03:28 it's .ready , it is only called one time even from a pop scene.. Jan 12 16:04:47 so is setup Jan 12 16:05:16 yeah but u cant muck with widgets in setup cause they dont exist yet.. Jan 12 16:05:59 but they do in ready Jan 12 16:06:08 yes Jan 12 16:06:51 .ready isnt include in the normal template setups in eclipse or komodo , you have to add it yourself Jan 12 16:07:34 when u pop a scene , the underlying scenes' activate method is called but not the .ready method Jan 12 16:07:54 (or setup) Jan 12 16:08:05 but ready has problems of its own. Jan 12 16:08:12 since it's called SO LATE IN THE GAME Jan 12 16:08:24 it certainly isn't where your ajax call should go. Jan 12 16:08:59 doesn't ready happen AFTER activate? Jan 12 16:09:14 or am I seriously confused? Jan 12 16:09:16 Bmyers_: what are u trying to do Jan 12 16:09:41 here is the order of the life cycle: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1627&Itemid=43 Jan 12 16:10:25 Rick_work: ready happens before Jan 12 16:10:26 ah, I was confused. Well then, move your one-tie stuff to ready Bmyers_ and see if that fixes it. Jan 12 16:10:40 Bmyers_: what were u trying to do Jan 12 16:10:40 ? Jan 12 16:10:44 make an ajax call Jan 12 16:10:45 ? Jan 12 16:11:06 atlanta multiplle calls to activate were occasionally giving him a white-screen error which cleared when he tried to scroll Jan 12 16:11:15 after pushing and popping scenes above. Jan 12 16:11:20 gotcha Jan 12 16:11:34 already tried it. seems to work although it only happened now and then. Jan 12 16:11:53 goody! Jan 12 16:12:22 .ready is a handy method , i've used it before. Jan 12 16:12:25 but Bmyers_ you are leaving your listeners in activate, and unlistening in deactivate right? Jan 12 16:12:48 because leaving listeners active when you push a scene over the top is "bad" Jan 12 16:12:48 setup and cleanup Jan 12 16:13:03 kk Jan 12 16:13:08 mh..what could be a reason i neither can start quake, nor doom? i click on it, but nothing happens, except that it apears in JSTop and takes some RAM? Jan 12 16:13:14 is that bad mojo ? Jan 12 16:13:22 Bmyers_: yes Jan 12 16:13:23 lol Jan 12 16:13:26 yeah, that's a question I have...both deactivate and claenup state that it will be run when a scene is popped....so, okay to just put stopListening in cleanup? Jan 12 16:13:29 Toaster: do u have upstart on Jan 12 16:13:31 installed Jan 12 16:13:31 ? Jan 12 16:13:39 sugardave: yea Jan 12 16:13:48 Toaster what version of webos? Jan 12 16:14:14 good, that's what I do...actually, if I set listeners in setup I stop them in cleanup, if I have them in activate, I stop listening in deactivate Jan 12 16:14:30 works so far Jan 12 16:14:48 sugardave yeah, but hang on.... it's perfectly ok to do that as long as all ID's that your listening to in scene one are UNIQUE across all scenes. Jan 12 16:15:14 Rick_work: 1.2.1 Jan 12 16:15:14 atlanta: um, dunno, i installed everything that preware prompted for when installing quake Jan 12 16:15:16 but if you have "button1" in scene 1, and you push scene 2 and have "button1" in scene 2, you now have created two listeners for the same ID.... Jan 12 16:15:17 good point Jan 12 16:15:18 *1.3.1 Jan 12 16:15:28 so does it matter or not? as long as what i am listening to is unique? Jan 12 16:15:38 Toaster quake and doom won't work in 131 you dont have the sdl libs Jan 12 16:15:43 Bmyers_: correct Jan 12 16:15:46 Rick_work: I get really obnoxious with naming my stuff....and I try really hard to not have duplicate IDs in scenes Jan 12 16:15:56 Bmyers_ as long as they're unique, then it's not a problem Jan 12 16:16:07 i guess it's safer for me to do it in activate deactivate. would take 2 seconds to change so no biggie either way Jan 12 16:16:13 any reason for that? Jan 12 16:16:15 Toaster you HAVE to have 1.3.5.x to run quake and doom Jan 12 16:16:41 Bmyers_: the correct may to stoplistening is to stop it in cleanup before the DOM is released Jan 12 16:16:42 Rick_work: what would be the "usuall" version? oO i thought i'd have the current version, i've got my pre since christmas Jan 12 16:16:48 Toaster: 1 Jan 12 16:16:51 Toaster: 1.3.5 Jan 12 16:16:54 mh, strange...how to get this? Jan 12 16:17:01 toaster are you in the US? Jan 12 16:17:03 that's quite old Jan 12 16:17:05 nop Jan 12 16:17:09 de Jan 12 16:17:20 1.3.5.2 was pushed to you last night Jan 12 16:17:28 Rick_work: wait, I'm confused....are you saying the duplicate ID problem would be present only if I'm stopping listens in cleanup? i.e. doing it in deactivate wouldn't matter if I had a duplicate ID in a different scene? Jan 12 16:17:42 press the update icon, which looks like a gift wrapped package Toaster Jan 12 16:17:55 mh, ok Jan 12 16:17:56 us is 1.3.5.1 and europe 1.3.5.2 (since today) Jan 12 16:18:06 sugardave it's LESS of a problem. Jan 12 16:18:15 ah Jan 12 16:18:40 why, if the scene is popped? they should both be called...oh, because pushing a scene does not pop the other scene Jan 12 16:18:40 sugardave if you have non-unique ID's and have TWO LISTENERS listening to the non-unique ID, that can have "unintended consiquences" Jan 12 16:18:43 duh Jan 12 16:18:46 should i uninstall something of the things i installed via preware/quick install? Jan 12 16:18:50 before updating Jan 12 16:19:05 isnt another page it's own unique DOM? Jan 12 16:19:06 Rick_work: got it, brain is slow Jan 12 16:19:10 Toaster -- update preware to the latest version, run Emergency Patch Repair -- Jan 12 16:19:13 then update Jan 12 16:19:26 remove themes Jan 12 16:19:27 run EMH after the update Jan 12 16:19:31 * sugardave submerges for a bit of real work. Jan 12 16:19:36 then run emergency migration helper Jan 12 16:19:44 oh yeah, remove themes Jan 12 16:19:46 this is not real work? :) Jan 12 16:20:37 did all those steps this morning and no problems so far Jan 12 16:20:48 pretomcat: I joined late, not sure what you are working on Jan 12 16:20:53 this is my hobby for now :D Jan 12 16:20:56 *knock on wood* Jan 12 16:21:16 sugardave: it's my hobby too for now Jan 12 16:21:24 it's a good one Jan 12 16:21:34 taking away more and more time from real work tho :) Jan 12 16:21:59 yup Jan 12 16:22:21 ok, time to leave the train soon ... BBL Jan 12 16:24:58 building a better search for the palm apps database... Jan 12 16:25:59 should have something to show within a few hours Jan 12 16:26:38 * sugardave decides to start running the emu in Pixi resolution exclusively. Jan 12 16:34:20 mornin' chuqui Jan 12 16:34:38 where do i find EPR and EMH? Jan 12 16:34:49 morning! Jan 12 16:35:13 Toaster try preware or wosqi Jan 12 16:35:31 mhk, wich feed/cat? Jan 12 16:35:51 k, found Jan 12 16:35:54 thx Jan 12 16:36:04 no prob, mate Jan 12 16:36:52 off for another reboot... i love the windows Jan 12 16:36:59 so, remove theme->run EPR->update->run RMH? Jan 12 16:37:17 *EMH Jan 12 16:38:36 morning chuqui Jan 12 16:38:43 morning! Jan 12 16:39:14 so, remove theme->run EPR->update->run RMH? <-- =) Jan 12 16:39:31 that's about what i did... Jan 12 16:39:48 Toaster: u might have to doctor Jan 12 16:39:50 chuqui: goodmoring Jan 12 16:40:16 well, except for having had my partitions resized, obviously something i did to my phone wasn't so good for the OTA update Jan 12 16:40:43 atlanta: to doktor? sounds dangerous?^^ Jan 12 16:41:11 Pliers! - Pliers. Jan 12 16:41:16 Toaster: ehh not that bad it doesnt mess with the usb partition so its all good Jan 12 16:41:39 doctors fix things Jan 12 16:41:51 haeffb_pre: well, sometimes. Jan 12 16:41:51 ^^ Jan 12 16:41:54 usually Jan 12 16:42:12 but, what exactly do you mean when saying "to doctor" ?! Jan 12 16:42:27 Toaster: to use the webos doctor Jan 12 16:42:36 aww, k Jan 12 16:50:50 anybody know how many results are provided in the apps rss feed? Jan 12 16:52:54 1.000 Jan 12 16:52:55 ? Jan 12 16:52:56 ;p; Jan 12 16:52:57 lol Jan 12 16:53:15 1048 Jan 12 16:53:42 ? Jan 12 16:54:48 1,000? at a time? Jan 12 16:56:55 ahoy Jan 12 16:57:30 anyone using Ares much? Tinkering right now, finally have some time Jan 12 16:58:05 I'm pretty familiar with regular mojo but not w/ ares Jan 12 16:58:18 the tutorial is still pretty limited Jan 12 16:59:49 also, in running the tutorial, I notice the button doesn't retain the label you give it in the design view when running the app Jan 12 16:59:55 anyone know what's up with that? Jan 12 17:01:51 the designer actually has the label field filled in, but it resets it in the view there, too Jan 12 17:02:55 oi Jan 12 17:03:00 hullo maik Jan 12 17:03:14 howdy Jan 12 17:03:23 aloha digitalpowers Jan 12 17:03:48 either of you playing w/ ares? Jan 12 17:03:54 i'm not Jan 12 17:04:04 i'm not much into the development yet Jan 12 17:04:13 not ares myself, just using eclipse, ares kept erroring when i tried to load it Jan 12 17:04:32 I've had an app nearly ready for release now for ~4 months Jan 12 17:04:37 haven't had the time to finish it off Jan 12 17:04:37 ha Jan 12 17:04:53 the debugger is great once you get it working, digitalpowers Jan 12 17:05:26 I wasn't having luck getting it working in Safari for some reason, it loaded up but wouldn't connect to emulator Jan 12 17:05:29 "real programmers dont need debuggers" as my stupid old boss told me Jan 12 17:05:34 works fine for me in Fx 3.5 Jan 12 17:06:00 he doesnt work here anymore thankfully Jan 12 17:06:02 yeah real programmers probably also only ever write assembly, right? Jan 12 17:06:11 haha exactly Jan 12 17:06:26 yeah i am shamefully trying to load it in ie8, probably 90% of the trouble Jan 12 17:06:32 ha Jan 12 17:06:34 maybe Jan 12 17:06:44 there's a list of working browsers I think Jan 12 17:06:46 anyhow Jan 12 17:06:57 good morning everyone! Jan 12 17:07:19 hoping to build a quick little app for my employer using ares, just trying to get past the kinks Jan 12 17:07:21 hiya yetdog Jan 12 17:11:30 grmpf Jan 12 17:11:49 word Jan 12 17:12:56 frostea: use your big boy words Jan 12 17:16:49 it does work now Jan 12 17:17:07 frostea: this in reference to anything in particular? Jan 12 17:17:25 wosqi refused to connect to the emulator Jan 12 17:17:25 _it_ Jan 12 17:17:29 duh Jan 12 17:17:41 maik: dunno what I was thinking Jan 12 17:17:52 * maik pats Jan 12 17:32:24 i got a var that is var = 'http://www.something.com/images/thisImage.jpg' .. i just want the thisImage.jpg part.. between prototype and js there are many ways. can some give me an easy way to accomplish this? Jan 12 17:32:59 is there a split function? Jan 12 17:33:05 you can split on the /? Jan 12 17:33:11 sure, or there's regex Jan 12 17:33:11 esp. if you know how many "/" there will be Jan 12 17:33:24 yeah, split makes an array (?).. Jan 12 17:33:32 get last element of the array... Jan 12 17:33:43 thats how i would do it Jan 12 17:33:47 i thought there might be some wizbang one-liner.. Jan 12 17:33:49 but thats just the PHP in me :) Jan 12 17:33:54 (me 2) Jan 12 17:34:04 well, just don't hit enter after the semi-colon Jan 12 17:34:06 boom - one line ;) Jan 12 17:34:43 yourVar.match(/\w+\.\w+$/)[0] Jan 12 17:35:03 not sure which is faster Jan 12 17:35:06 not sure it matters Jan 12 17:35:07 haha Jan 12 17:35:48 PHP has allowed me to be so sloppy. haven't done true OO since college. learning objectiveC now and javascript will help a bit Jan 12 17:35:59 thynctank: and that means what? I'm terrible at regex stuff. Jan 12 17:36:28 Bmyers_ always looks foreign to me too :) Jan 12 17:36:29 makes me go "ahhhhhhhhhh" like patrick and sponge bob.. Jan 12 17:36:31 Bmyers_: that means match 1 or more word characters, then a period, then one or more word chars Jan 12 17:36:35 and grab the matching string Jan 12 17:36:45 and it has to be at the end Jan 12 17:36:58 the $ indicates end of string Jan 12 17:37:19 thanks! Jan 12 17:37:33 sure thing Jan 12 17:38:08 yetdog: I worked w/ PHP for a few years, have been doing Ruby the last year or two and really digging it Jan 12 17:38:22 but I'm mostly language agnostic, try not to get religious about any of that Jan 12 17:42:47 i have a question for you webos development masters, what if any types of networking are available to applications that wish to be placed in the app catelog when they are done? Jan 12 17:43:49 cause i cant event tell if the ajax stuff is ok enough to use in a app catelog bound app Jan 12 17:44:02 digitalpowers: what do u mean Jan 12 17:44:02 ajax is fine Jan 12 17:44:08 what kind of networking are u trying to do Jan 12 17:44:11 ajax.request is fine Jan 12 17:44:33 but there are addl features beyond base webkit functionality available through services Jan 12 17:45:05 i just wanst sure on the ajax stuff since it appears to be a part of the prototype library Jan 12 17:45:23 prototype is part of mojo Jan 12 17:45:26 digitalpowers: prototype is included in the mojo Jan 12 17:45:27 lol Jan 12 17:45:37 palm got there mojo back Jan 12 17:46:01 btw if you are interested in non-browsery stuff, here's the Service API listing: Jan 12 17:46:02 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1651&Itemid=240 Jan 12 17:46:03 does ajax.request work with ssl by any chance? Jan 12 17:46:17 believe that's fine Jan 12 17:46:44 though there may be issues if your cert isn't 100% correct Jan 12 17:46:46 time for my graphic designer to come up with a creative design for an app Jan 12 17:47:02 some browsers are cool with somewhat malformed certs but I think webOS barfs on them Jan 12 17:47:09 yeah, i have a good cert :) Jan 12 17:47:19 the xmpp stuff though, that is not a part of kosher mojo right? Jan 12 17:47:25 it is Jan 12 17:47:35 all that services stuff is part of mojo Jan 12 17:47:40 its not part of mojo its just included within Jan 12 17:47:52 the services are though Jan 12 17:48:05 digitalpowers: have u read any docks Jan 12 17:48:15 there are a bunch of little services running on the device, and there's a simple API for calling on any of the services Jan 12 17:48:20 ok, fair enough, xmpp might serve me better, i have, but i kept getting confused going between the docs and peopel talking Jan 12 17:48:53 here's how to call on a service: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1651&Itemid=240 Jan 12 17:49:21 * DogWater wishes someone would make TradeWars for WebOS Jan 12 17:50:23 i just wanted to make sure that if i used something it wasnt going to disqualify me for app catelog placement, like the mojo messeging service, it isnt ready for production deployment but it is listed on the services tab (or maybe i missunderstand what they mean by not ready) Jan 12 17:51:11 their docs are mostly up to date from what I've read, but I can't speak on that in specific Jan 12 17:51:45 if it works on a live device it's probably fine, I don't think they actually review code during the review process Jan 12 17:51:54 haha Jan 12 17:52:03 I know Apple doesn't for theirs Jan 12 17:52:59 DogWater: go for it, sounds exciting Jan 12 17:53:14 ah its an ASCII bbs game from the 1990s =D Jan 12 17:53:22 I compiled a MUD on my Pre back before the SDK was out :D Jan 12 17:53:49 sugardave: u maverick.. Jan 12 17:54:01 Simple: Just compile a BBS on the pre, first - http://www.synchro.net/ Jan 12 17:54:10 then get DOSBOX working, then install Tw2002 Jan 12 17:54:27 that is, if you want the fully authentic experience :) Jan 12 17:54:32 hehe Jan 12 17:54:38 Actually, I'm tempted to get that BBS working on my Pre Jan 12 17:54:45 PreBS Jan 12 17:54:50 just because I'm kind of insane Jan 12 17:54:51 why not just set it up on telnet and create an app that opens a telnet session Jan 12 17:54:55 doesn't that save time lol Jan 12 17:54:57 lmorchard: I'm familiar with that Jan 12 17:55:16 the BBS, or insanity? Jan 12 17:55:20 both Jan 12 17:55:23 :) Jan 12 17:55:37 legend of the red dragon was better anyway Jan 12 17:55:54 I liked Empire and the stock market game Jan 12 17:56:01 I once set up a telnet bbs just so my girlfriend (now wife) could play LoRD Jan 12 17:56:42 I scoured the net via gopher to find all the shareware Commander Keens for my wife-then-girlfriend "back in the day" Jan 12 17:56:47 I wanted to create a web based version of Tw2002 and then appify it for WebOS but i am terrible with graphics, etc. Jan 12 17:56:52 before we had this browser crap Jan 12 17:56:55 :D Jan 12 17:57:17 I barely touched a keyboard before 1998 Jan 12 17:57:40 * sugardave would destroy you in a PvP MUD. Jan 12 17:57:47 rawr Jan 12 17:57:54 the only mud I used to play was MajorMUD and that wasnt a real mud Jan 12 17:58:23 wtf is the diff between muds, mucks and moos? Jan 12 17:58:28 from a player perspective, nothing, right? Jan 12 17:58:39 DogWater: just do the logic and with crappy graphics...then get someone else to update them Jan 12 17:58:46 thynctank: I think so...never did mush/moos Jan 12 17:59:00 I think MOOs are more oriented toward creating stuff, like second life Jan 12 17:59:12 where MUDs are more game-ish, like WoW Jan 12 17:59:36 yeah I had a friend who was a wizard or whatever on one of those games where he could create "rooms" or whatever, populate em w/ items and monsters and blabla Jan 12 17:59:43 but it all blurs depending on the community Jan 12 17:59:46 yeah Jan 12 18:00:00 damn, now I may have to go find a MUD to play for a few days Jan 12 18:00:08 * sugardave sings "MEMORIIIIIIEEEEEES" Jan 12 18:00:25 I remember a family having 5 phone lines in their house so they could run bots on MajorMUD all day while they were at work/school Jan 12 18:00:33 folks would have no idea this was a webos chan if it wasn't for the name Jan 12 18:00:35 (worked for a BBS/ISP for a bit) Jan 12 18:00:35 damn, that is sick Jan 12 18:00:39 Yep, I botted majormud too Jan 12 18:01:05 I didn't even use a mud client until WAY late in the game....tinyfugue rocks Jan 12 18:01:24 thynctank: we're camouflaging the channel Jan 12 18:01:25 I totally need to set up a cross-compiler and see if I can get synchro.net on my pre, heh Jan 12 18:01:51 har Jan 12 18:01:55 and then see if I can get the BBS to page me as sysop like ye olde days Jan 12 18:02:46 oh those were the days... Jan 12 18:03:54 haeffb_pre: ping Jan 12 18:04:23 haeffb_pre: how hard was it to get agenda to modify it's app icon to show the current numeric day? Jan 12 18:04:32 pretty slick... Jan 12 18:07:28 sugarsave: I just had my eyes dilated and cannot read my phone...! Jan 12 18:07:42 so i took my girlfriend's pre to sprint because it wasn't connecting via the usb port (charging or file copying) and they told me they'd reset the charging port and it would take an hour. Jan 12 18:07:44 what the hell Jan 12 18:08:04 will gett back to you later Jan 12 18:08:04 there is a button somewhere that says 'reset charging port'? Jan 12 18:08:12 haeffb_pre: weak :P Jan 12 18:08:39 whatn Jan 12 18:08:50 lol Jan 12 18:09:25 "reset charging port" sounds like "zap the pram" on a Mac, ie. probably BS Jan 12 18:09:46 yea i'm going to call them before i go back because they're most likely just going to have to give her a replacement Jan 12 18:09:47 they're busily copying your gf's data onto a new Pre Jan 12 18:10:00 how can they copy the data without the usb port? Jan 12 18:10:11 magic? Jan 12 18:10:18 rofl Jan 12 18:10:21 well no duh, magic but i mean assume their mage is out Jan 12 18:10:29 at a mage convention Jan 12 18:10:47 "mage out to lunch: back in 1 hour" Jan 12 18:10:49 ha. prefs let me change font size Jan 12 18:10:56 "The wizards not in" Jan 12 18:11:06 31 diff icons Jan 12 18:11:27 haeffb_pre: damn...then just modify appinfo at midnight local time? Jan 12 18:11:40 er, copy the new image Jan 12 18:12:25 will post code when I get home Jan 12 18:12:27 s'pose I'll be back later, off for now! Jan 12 18:12:41 haeffb_pre: cool, just noticed it and thought "that's neat!" Jan 12 18:13:09 updateIcon service request... ? Jan 12 18:13:41 ah, some Mojo-y way Jan 12 18:22:52 Can anyone tell me what exactly what the "optware Advanced linux command line installer" does for me Does that mean I can automattically install Root required apps like Jan 12 18:23:03 MYTETHER etc Jan 12 18:25:45 man, are they paranoid or what: Not allowed to load local resource: file:///images/camp3on.gif Jan 12 18:26:57 trying to do: Jan 12 18:27:34 um Jan 12 18:27:37 dont use the leading slash Jan 12 18:27:41 i *think* Jan 12 18:28:01 i believe you're trying to access something @ the root of the filesystem with that example, hence the error Jan 12 18:28:17 ya. if its your pic use "images/xxx" Jan 12 18:28:50 Bmyers_: I had to remove a verisign.gif link from an ajax response because of that error Jan 12 18:28:53 it was damn annoying Jan 12 18:29:52 lets see if my account manager can get this damn update delete Jan 12 18:29:55 deleted** Jan 12 18:30:10 i took out the slash and its doesnt complain anymore but i dont see it either.. Jan 12 18:30:14 anyone use svg in webos yet? curious how well supported it is since im having trouble with canvas Jan 12 18:30:31 Bmyers_: You may want to stick that in your CSS rather than HTML Jan 12 18:30:44 not sure what webkit thinks the relative path to images is from HTML in mojo Jan 12 18:30:55 i am doing it dynamically.. Jan 12 18:31:01 lmorchard: from 'app' is root Jan 12 18:31:03 everything is relative from index.html Jan 12 18:31:12 from a view its the root. from css its the css file iirc Jan 12 18:31:25 i read that somewhere Jan 12 18:31:37 So, relative from app, index.html, or view - which? :) Jan 12 18:31:45 I've never had luck figuring it out, so I just go from the CSS Jan 12 18:31:53 relative from your app's root path Jan 12 18:32:00 lmorchard: 'app' meaning where index.html is Jan 12 18:32:06 correct sugardave Jan 12 18:32:18 cyup yup Jan 12 18:32:19 Hmm, that never seemed to work from me Jan 12 18:32:25 dylanmei: that is true about css...relative to the stylesheets dir Jan 12 18:32:32 :) Jan 12 18:32:36 though, really, your best bet is to keep all the references to images in the CSS and switch classnames in HTML Jan 12 18:32:57 doesnt complain about but i dont see it the gif Jan 12 18:33:12 unless you really, really, have bazillions of images and absolutely need to dynamically construct the image name Jan 12 18:33:14 Bmyers_: hieght and width Jan 12 18:33:15 you might need to do ../images/buds2on Jan 12 18:33:16 need to be set Jan 12 18:33:18 from the CSS Jan 12 18:33:28 hes not in the css Jan 12 18:33:34 ah, my bad Jan 12 18:33:40 Oh, yeah, you will need to set up height/width for that span Jan 12 18:33:45 oh, yeah. it is too large for where its going Jan 12 18:33:48 and a display: block Jan 12 18:33:53 (if you haven't already) Jan 12 18:33:53 need to specify the other stuff like norepeat Jan 12 18:34:02 snot.. Jan 12 18:34:02 lol Jan 12 18:34:06 simpliest thing Jan 12 18:34:19 * sugardave is envious of all the CSS knowledge. Jan 12 18:34:24 :-) Jan 12 18:34:28 thats why u got me Jan 12 18:34:32 heh Jan 12 18:34:37 dont need the quotes around the image file name either Jan 12 18:34:48 dylanmei: its best practice Jan 12 18:34:50 keep it Jan 12 18:35:06 really? thx i never knew that Jan 12 18:35:10 yup yup Jan 12 18:36:02 should be: yes? Jan 12 18:36:07 sugardave: Jan 12 18:36:07 no Jan 12 18:36:14 woah Jan 12 18:36:15 Jan 12 18:36:26 oh Jan 12 18:36:27 oops Jan 12 18:36:30 :D Jan 12 18:36:35 style=" yeah Jan 12 18:36:37 u should really use CSS :-0 Jan 12 18:37:18 Yeah, I would put all the images in CSS and switch classname dynamically., makes it easier to manage changes later IMHO Jan 12 18:37:19 now if *that* doesnt work make sure the image is really in images Jan 12 18:37:52 that too Jan 12 18:38:06 they are.. Jan 12 18:38:37 and yes. you are right about putting them in css and doing addclass prototype and u'd be really slick. Jan 12 18:38:48 :-) Jan 12 18:38:48 wait a minute Jan 12 18:38:49 now ur thinking Jan 12 18:38:50 but thats not what i'm gonna do Jan 12 18:38:54 know why? Jan 12 18:38:59 just to bug u atlanta... Jan 12 18:39:02 :) Jan 12 18:39:06 :-) Jan 12 18:39:06 lmfao Jan 12 18:39:08 inline style is going to be relative to which: index.html or stylesheets? Jan 12 18:39:09 Though, not addclass. just set ele.className = 'foo' Jan 12 18:39:28 lmorchard: I'd use addClassName Jan 12 18:39:28 app root which is where index.html is Jan 12 18:39:34 sugardave: should be to the index.html file Jan 12 18:39:36 i am switching an icon in the header Jan 12 18:39:38 If you use addclassname, any old class names will stick Jan 12 18:39:40 based on the content Jan 12 18:39:43 since you can have more than one Jan 12 18:39:45 right Jan 12 18:39:46 which is not what you want if you want to literally switch classes Jan 12 18:39:48 all the views are rendered within index.html Jan 12 18:39:53 not if it's blank.. Jan 12 18:39:55 unless you remember to removeclassname the old one Jan 12 18:39:57 lmorchard: ah, that's true...nevermind me :D Jan 12 18:40:20 But, if you *do* want multiple classes, then yeah remove/add to preserve the rest of the existing ones Jan 12 18:40:26 theres a swap option Jan 12 18:40:40 its an icon in the header pill.. Jan 12 18:40:56 Yeah, swap doesn't help if you have more than 2 possible classes you're playing wit Jan 12 18:41:05 9 Jan 12 18:41:35 I've got some crazy set of 3 or 4 modes for a scene in BlockChalk that i switch between all with one classname on the root div for the home scene Jan 12 18:41:51 it actually works out pretty well Jan 12 18:42:23 ok, since i got these CSS brainiacs here. i want to build a base class that defines the height and width and then extend the class with the particular gif Jan 12 18:42:42 any reason using a gif instead of png? Jan 12 18:43:00 because they're over 10 years old and I am obviously lazy.. Jan 12 18:43:15 ha. ok. assume you're not looking for transparency. Jan 12 18:43:24 yes i am Jan 12 18:43:39 i can convert them . no big deal.. Jan 12 18:43:47 :) Jan 12 18:43:54 just couldnt figure in gimp how to change them Jan 12 18:44:04 You *could* do something like
, then .base>div { width: 100px; height: 100px} .base>.one { background-img: url(...); } Jan 12 18:44:17 damn that chipotle mustard is hot Jan 12 18:44:42 lmorchard: that looks scary Jan 12 18:44:45 or something like .base>.img-1{ ... } .base .img-2 { ... } and switch .img-{number} in code Jan 12 18:44:51 wtf is .class>.class? Jan 12 18:44:52 sugardave: hope u got the fired ice cream too.. it'll help cool the hot later on.. Jan 12 18:45:02 fried.. Jan 12 18:45:03 .class>.class is direct-descendant Jan 12 18:45:29 so, if element has this class but only if it's a child element of another element with this other class? Jan 12 18:45:31 how is that different than ".class1 .class2"? Jan 12 18:45:45 so, given

, p>span would only match the first child span, not the nested child Jan 12 18:46:02 oh, strange Jan 12 18:46:07 just the very first, or all children? Jan 12 18:46:28 oh yeah. that seems alot easier than pounding a style= inside with 2 lines of js code.. Jan 12 18:46:28 Well, all direct descendents Jan 12 18:46:34 oh yeah, 2nd span is child of first span...duh Jan 12 18:46:45 if you wanted first, I think you can do p>span:first Jan 12 18:47:01 but that might just be jquery CSS selector syntax not CSS3 Jan 12 18:47:03 ok. span:first looks more like xsl Jan 12 18:47:18 I saw some weird-ass 'conditional CSS' syntax the other day...I almost killed myself in despair Jan 12 18:47:24 lol Jan 12 18:47:36 css-induced suicide Jan 12 18:47:39 i can empathize with that Jan 12 18:47:57 i am using a custom sound alert with my latest app! woo! :) Jan 12 18:48:16 nice, does it actually work? ;) Jan 12 18:48:27 it does! Jan 12 18:48:33 double-nice Jan 12 18:48:35 pretty psyched. now using the dashboard instead of banner Jan 12 18:48:37 Well, once nice thing about hanging it off CSS and class names, is you can actually change the class names in the Palm Inspector and see what happens Jan 12 18:48:51 so in case the phones in your pocket, you can still see what the alert was, instead of the banner disappearing after 3 seconds Jan 12 18:49:12 I like getting the HTML/CSS straightened out before mucking around too much in the JS, and vice versa Jan 12 18:49:50 yeah, after getting my head around the struction of a single-stage app, i kind of have to re-learn the multistage approach Jan 12 18:50:01 I think that widgets shouldn't have to be "setup". It seems like something that should happen automatically. Jan 12 18:50:09 (And it does with Ares, but then you're not writing HTML.) Jan 12 18:50:22 Yeah, I wish Palm had actually used Dojo's widget system Jan 12 18:50:38 Theirs scans the HTML for attributes and does setup automatically Jan 12 18:50:40 I haven't used that; how does it work? Jan 12 18:50:43 Oh, yeah. Jan 12 18:50:43 Jan 12 18:50:59 It's actually kinda close to what Palm's doing, but a bit nicer I think Jan 12 18:51:09 at the same time, working the guts of something helps you understand it better Jan 12 18:51:10 still no go.. Jan 12 18:51:22 Bmyers_: use quotes around the entire contents of the style attribute Jan 12 18:51:48 and change the double-quotes around your image path to singles.... Jan 12 18:51:56 o. i was wondering that Jan 12 18:51:56 quotes" style="" single quote (or leaave out) for url('') Jan 12 18:52:13 Well, you can skip the HTML DOM scanning in Dojo and instantiate widgets by hand too, but declaring it all in HTML and then just hanging code off events in JS is pretty nice Jan 12 18:52:21 sugardave: home Jan 12 18:52:34 lmorchard: that sounds perfect; I'll look at that Jan 12 18:52:34 haeffb: cool, I'm not, but about to head that way Jan 12 18:52:46 ok back Jan 12 18:52:49 sugardave: got it to work Jan 12 18:52:49 ? Jan 12 18:53:08 what am I working on? Jan 12 18:53:09 lol Jan 12 18:53:18 i dunno who needed help with the css Jan 12 18:53:20 crap Jan 12 18:53:23 hehe, Bmyers_ Jan 12 18:53:30 yes, it was i.. Jan 12 18:53:31 The funny thing is that Ares uses Dojo under the hood, along with another open source UI builder system Jan 12 18:53:45 Jan 12 18:54:02 doesnt work.. Jan 12 18:54:13 sugardave: http://www.pastie.org/775241 Jan 12 18:54:13 shoot... Jan 12 18:54:18 Bmyers_: just for grins...do ../images/buds2on.gif Jan 12 18:54:31 lmorchard: It doesn't seem impossible to integrate the Dojo functionality on top of Mojo Jan 12 18:54:33 ../ Jan 12 18:54:35 at the from Jan 12 18:54:36 no i think a sub dir got in there when i pasted the icons... Jan 12 18:54:43 jeffwheeler: Well, not easily, no Jan 12 18:54:44 jeffwheeler: i seen a few apps with it Jan 12 18:54:56 looked pretty simple to me Jan 12 18:54:58 at least not the full Dijit widget system Jan 12 18:55:01 ???/ Jan 12 18:55:28 you can use the Dojo and DojoX libs very easily, but Dijit would take some work Jan 12 18:55:35 haeffb: iLIKE Jan 12 18:55:38 Bmyers_: well, that will definitely muck up your path Jan 12 18:56:02 lmorchard: perhaps then it'd be possible to just mimic some parts . . . Jan 12 18:56:17 Yeah, though it's likely not worth the bother really Jan 12 18:56:18 lmorchard: frankly, I don't want the entire thing Jan 12 18:56:37 jeffwheeler: i believe they just used the coding part of it the functionality Jan 12 18:56:38 I've been tempted to try adapting their HTML DOM scanner to make setupwidget calls Jan 12 18:56:48 haeffb: thanks! I would never have pegged setUpdateIconWakeup as the method of choice Jan 12 18:57:31 ok, eclipse was confusing me. those pix r u images, no sub Jan 12 18:58:06 ../images doesnt help Jan 12 18:58:13 dang this should be this hard.. Jan 12 18:58:16 Oh yeah, here's the thing I was looking for, Ares is based on Dojo and this: http://code.google.com/p/opus-js/ Jan 12 18:58:16 'nt Jan 12 18:58:32 Bmyers_: your gif isn't blank is it? Jan 12 18:58:40 in case anyone was curious what "opus" was in Ares apps Jan 12 18:59:01 no, they seem to come up ok in Jan 12 19:00:32 Bymers_ your span needs content in it. height and width dont work. switch to a div. try this:

Jan 12 19:00:55 dylanmei: ah, very good Jan 12 19:01:27 i put content in the span now. nothing.. Jan 12 19:01:51 ares won't load for me Jan 12 19:01:57 here Jan 12 19:02:11 this is in my html. just trying to get the syntax right.. Jan 12 19:02:14 sugardave: setUpdateIconWakeup is another function that I wrote to set an alarm to call updateIcon. Jan 12 19:02:26 just a sec, let me repastie. Jan 12 19:03:01 lemmee switch to what you have. i keep my background style all in one line Jan 12 19:03:06 haeffb: ah, i see it's the updateLaunchPointIcon part that does it Jan 12 19:03:36 i should ssh in to the emu and makes sure my icons are REALLY REALLY there.. Jan 12 19:03:56 rightyeo Jan 12 19:04:15 you are still nesting double-quotes Jan 12 19:04:53 warning: this may be kind of hackish: http://www.pastie.org/775253 Jan 12 19:04:56 ah ha.. bad mojo.. Jan 12 19:04:57 what are you using for a text editor? the double-quote nesting should be instantly obvious Jan 12 19:05:23 eclipse but the stupid conext highlighting isnt working!!!!! Jan 12 19:05:34 i should go back to komodo.. Jan 12 19:05:39 that seems like an eclipse FAIL :o Jan 12 19:05:45 i think for webos, eclipse might suck Jan 12 19:06:02 i am old fashion i use programmer's notepad. Jan 12 19:06:14 i use vi if i really get pissed.. Jan 12 19:06:23 lol okay YOU are old fasion :) Jan 12 19:06:28 haeffb: cool, thanks! Jan 12 19:06:48 yeah i got no highlighting so its a PITA.. Jan 12 19:06:51 I call updateIcon in handleLaunch on first launch. Jan 12 19:06:53 that worked tho.. Jan 12 19:06:53 Bmyers_: #$@^ eclipse Jan 12 19:07:03 eclipse rocks! Jan 12 19:07:12 too huge Jan 12 19:07:12 i was using komodo on my xp setup and liked it.. Jan 12 19:07:16 better than any other editor I've used for webOS. Jan 12 19:07:22 but there is no cvs in komodo edit Jan 12 19:07:25 * haeffb hasn't used any other editor Jan 12 19:07:37 havent tried komodo. programmer's notepad on pc, textmate on mac. Jan 12 19:07:49 Bmyers_: but there is wincvs....and man I suck at that, too Jan 12 19:07:49 and no method like for js in komodo edit Jan 12 19:08:11 i'm not on xp right now.. Jan 12 19:08:16 sugardave: I have not yet figured out how to get Agenda to update icon after a reboot... Jan 12 19:08:19 ubuntu Jan 12 19:08:20 WINDOWS 7 BITCHES Jan 12 19:08:25 yeah... Jan 12 19:08:31 for little webos projects git is nice Jan 12 19:08:46 haeffb: yeah, was wondering about that...figured you had to run it at least once to get the new date set properly Jan 12 19:08:53 yep. Jan 12 19:08:57 Bmyers_: yayyy my palm assistant is getting that damn update removd Jan 12 19:08:58 windows sucks all around :) Jan 12 19:09:06 yetdog_work: have u used 7 Jan 12 19:09:07 im running 7 @ work Jan 12 19:09:14 ahh then u suck all around lol Jan 12 19:09:15 same resource management issues as xp Jan 12 19:09:18 hahaha Jan 12 19:09:21 alarms are saved across reboots, but as far as I know there's no way to be notified of a reboot. Jan 12 19:09:21 haeffb: did you get this example from Palm's? I noticed their calendar was still showing '1' on the 4th day of Jan :D Jan 12 19:09:22 negative Jan 12 19:09:29 i hate it. doesnt matter how much RAM you throw at it Jan 12 19:09:31 still a dog Jan 12 19:09:35 yetdog_work: wow Jan 12 19:09:39 what are u running 7 beta Jan 12 19:09:39 ? Jan 12 19:09:40 lol Jan 12 19:09:41 nope Jan 12 19:09:44 ok. not the gif is 32 x 32 but not resized , just trunc'd Jan 12 19:09:50 but come on. it just gets in my way Jan 12 19:10:04 sometimes STILL doesnt wake from sleep Jan 12 19:10:14 mac is so solid, that's all Jan 12 19:10:28 its showing?? that's great. its still dependant on the content in the span, because its ignoring your width and height. cahnge the span to a div and you should be good to go. Jan 12 19:10:42 no, i changed it to div Jan 12 19:10:45 * haeffb should add the updateIcon code to webos101 Jan 12 19:10:47 was it lonestar or sugardave who was selling the virtues of Palm Inspector? Jan 12 19:10:47 but it's showing.. Jan 12 19:10:51 that helps tremendously w/ CSS Jan 12 19:10:52 haeffb: yes, you should Jan 12 19:11:00 soon as I can see properly Jan 12 19:11:05 Roy-Pre101 approves Jan 12 19:11:18 yeah, palm inspector isnt running on ubuntu yet either for me. complains of a missing lib Jan 12 19:11:24 palm-inspector needs to be updated Jan 12 19:11:26 ah Jan 12 19:11:36 i would have been there hours ago.. Jan 12 19:11:52 i should just reboot back to XP to finish this project.. Jan 12 19:11:53 yetdog_work: I might have mentioned inspector to you Jan 12 19:11:57 where should it go? what category? Jan 12 19:11:57 when it works, it's great Jan 12 19:12:30 haeffb: you could put it in the code snippets page Jan 12 19:12:43 i gotta switch these to png's anyway. there not transparent .. Jan 12 19:12:50 they're.. Jan 12 19:14:02 okay, heading home...bbiaw Jan 12 19:16:55 i am so amped for 1.4 Jan 12 19:17:35 and hoping that this summer they come out w/ an updated device for sprint :) Jan 12 19:17:41 since you can reup your device every year with them Jan 12 19:18:57 hi Jan 12 19:20:18 http://www.webos101.com/Code_Snippets Jan 12 19:20:22 done. Jan 12 19:21:40 atlanta: ping Jan 12 19:21:55 haeffb: hey Jan 12 19:22:12 you are css guru? Jan 12 19:22:14 wow do you need to be windowless to use updateIcon? Jan 12 19:22:33 haeffb: some what Jan 12 19:22:47 no, but you do need to be windowless to use alarms - which I use to updateIcon Jan 12 19:22:55 dylanmei: u should have ur app-assisant handle it headlessly Jan 12 19:23:01 wanna help me with some VERY basic css? Jan 12 19:23:06 haeffb: sure Jan 12 19:23:09 ah i see. thats awesome. thx! Jan 12 19:24:19 haeffb: Pm me Jan 12 19:24:21 I have this: http://www.pastie.org/775293 Jan 12 19:24:27 i hate reading through convos Jan 12 19:24:47 whose wiki is this? this is pretty cool. Jan 12 19:25:40 atlanta: see pm Jan 12 19:35:34 dylanmei: That'd be mine. Jan 12 19:35:38 Was someone looking for me, btw? Jan 12 19:36:52 yeah the village ppl where here looking for you Roy: They said something about a reunion tour and they want u back.. Jan 12 19:36:59 :) Jan 12 19:37:19 dust off your hard hat.. Jan 12 19:38:08 mines and Roy-Pre101 Jan 12 19:38:09 lol Jan 12 19:38:10 ;- Jan 12 19:38:49 geeze. i hope he doesnt take me too seriously.. Jan 12 19:38:58 and mine! Jan 12 19:39:06 since I just added something new Jan 12 19:39:08 :-0 Jan 12 19:39:10 :-) Jan 12 19:41:54 Bmyers_: Cool! Good to get the guys back together for another tour. I'm gonna start workin' on my YMCA. Jan 12 19:45:52 Yep, the Wiki really is a community effort. Jan 12 19:46:53 Roy - awesome. I just signed up I have a bit of experience banging my head against canvas and some other things so I'll try to contribute. :) Jan 12 19:50:01 hi all Jan 12 19:50:59 What is the prefered way to send some sql results to a php file on website? Jan 12 19:51:25 as a json string? Jan 12 19:52:49 no what i mean is that i have a result of sql query which is combines of rows and data etc Jan 12 19:53:29 i want to send it all to a web site , keep it there and extract it on other time Jan 12 19:53:34 json string Jan 12 19:53:43 xml Jan 12 19:53:54 one of those Jan 12 19:54:07 theres tools to serialize and deserialize so you don't have to fuss so much Jan 12 19:54:10 how do i do that? Jan 12 19:54:30 there is this great function Object.toJSON( Object object ); Jan 12 19:54:31 can you direct me to such tools? Jan 12 19:54:38 on the pre just use Object.toJSON(data) if your data is an object like a resultset Jan 12 19:54:49 you can give it the complete results.rows set Jan 12 19:56:02 and there is the other way aroun? JSONtoobject? Jan 12 19:58:13 OK got it , but it seems not so good solution for large amount of data.. Jan 12 19:59:14 why not? Jan 12 19:59:18 the overhad is very small Jan 12 19:59:21 +e Jan 12 20:00:37 OK i'll try this thanks Jan 12 20:01:38 one of my applications has a SHA1 hash of a user password stored in a cookie Jan 12 20:01:50 the application requires the password to enter Jan 12 20:02:27 a user has contacted me and after deleting the app and re-installing the app still asks for old password (which he has forgotten) Jan 12 20:02:41 how can he delete the user data Jan 12 20:03:07 anyone have problems finding their app in the app catalog? Jan 12 20:04:48 if you want to use graphs in your webos app use flot Jan 12 20:04:52 http://webosdev.blogspot.com/2010/01/integrate-with-flot-graph-system-using.html Jan 12 20:05:50 Equilibium: did u try pchart too? Jan 12 20:07:11 no Jan 12 20:07:34 flot worked ok tho? that about the only one i didnt try. Jan 12 20:08:36 enter the link the image is taken from my app Jan 12 20:08:49 does it support x as time using milliseconds since epoch? Jan 12 20:09:00 i think thats why i didnt try it.. Jan 12 20:09:55 can anyone help with regards to why cookies are kept when apps are deleted? Jan 12 20:10:12 RazerM: which version of webOS? Jan 12 20:10:48 I use cookies , they are always deleted Jan 12 20:11:14 not sure, a user has emailed me and after uninstalling my application and re-installing, the app is still asking for his password (ie the cookie still exists) Jan 12 20:11:14 there was a bug with ?1.3.1? where cookies were not deleted. Jan 12 20:11:26 I'll email him back then Jan 12 20:11:44 and if he updates then deletes the app the data will be gone? Jan 12 20:11:47 RazerM local cookies or cookies from other sites. Ive never seen a local cookie not be deleted. Jan 12 20:11:54 Bmyers_ i really have no idea but the X does support time Jan 12 20:12:30 one created in javascript using Mojo.Model.Cookie() Jan 12 20:12:38 I had this problem in very old version Jan 12 20:13:08 never run into such a prop here Jan 12 20:13:22 Is there a way to see the user's comments on your app in the app catalog? Jan 12 20:13:32 in the catalog app Jan 12 20:13:47 I also wish I could see user comments Jan 12 20:13:54 I don't have a device Jan 12 20:14:04 that's quite bad Jan 12 20:14:40 my friend has a device but from germant Jan 12 20:14:49 germany Jan 12 20:16:08 lots of my reviews are gone - chuq said it was a known error Jan 12 20:16:49 i can't believe oregon trail made it through the Q&A process, it reboots my girlfriend's phone lol Jan 12 20:17:20 i mean i've heard of dying, but c'mon Jan 12 20:17:23 there are some issue in canvas that can cause a reboot Jan 12 20:17:38 know blobber? Jan 12 20:17:44 didn't came across one yet Jan 12 20:17:58 and I use it alot, but no translation or rotation yet Jan 12 20:18:15 it reboots and spontanously exits alot Jan 12 20:18:34 thats why i stick to tetris Jan 12 20:18:41 the emu but not the device Jan 12 20:18:57 oh, different topic.. Jan 12 20:20:39 Is there a list of the fonts that webOS has installed? Jan 12 20:20:49 I'm looking for something with sexy ampersands. Jan 12 20:22:17 it's a pity palm-log.bat eventualy stops working Jan 12 20:25:40 can't find your app, by searching check this out: http://bas.buildasearch.com/palm Jan 12 20:30:56 btw: does any of you americans see reviews for Match This! Pro? Jan 12 20:35:38 I'm trying to use Object.toJSON(results) Jan 12 20:35:38 i see no reviews for "Match This! Pro" Jan 12 20:36:05 keep getting Error: INVALID_ACCESS_ERR: DOM Exception 15 Jan 12 20:36:27 Bmyers_: email Jan 12 20:36:32 MetaView: palm-log seems to fails after a while on both xp and linux version.. Jan 12 20:37:01 digitalpowers: thx Jan 12 20:37:05 Bmyers_: thx Jan 12 20:37:08 :) Jan 12 20:38:00 haeffb: got it.. Jan 12 20:41:38 haeffb: email.. Jan 12 20:52:40 Is sir Chuquilot on? Jan 12 20:52:51 or watching rather? Jan 12 20:53:27 Equilibrium: if you are trying to do that with a sqlresult object that just performed an update NOT an insert you will get an error Jan 12 20:55:16 no , just a select Jan 12 20:57:13 could it be A party? Yes a party in my pocket.... er a party in my pocket in homebrew... oy Jan 12 21:21:41 haeffb: or haeffb_pre: u get it? Jan 12 21:23:10 I got it Jan 12 21:23:44 has anyone played X-Plane yet??? Jan 12 21:24:46 M3: no but would like to know if it sux or not.. Jan 12 21:25:32 exactly what i'm interested in, i'll probably try it this weekend regardless Jan 12 21:26:27 I bought X-Plane... It's a really good flight sim, though boring as a game Jan 12 21:26:36 M3: let me know if it is a complete waste of 10 bux.. Jan 12 21:26:45 But if you like flying around with different planes just for the sake of flying, it's excellent Jan 12 21:27:23 does touchstone give u some feedback if its charging? Jan 12 21:27:29 hmmm cool, as a private pilot myself... i'll hold it to a higher standard haha Jan 12 21:27:59 M3: Got your ticket? Why bother with the sym? Jan 12 21:28:11 My experience goes back to flight sims on the C=64 and Amiga, so I'm not necessarily the best judge :) Jan 12 21:28:21 Bmyers_: yes, it notes it's "Charging" Jan 12 21:28:38 I don't remember seeing much in the way of ground structures, but then I didn't fly very far from SFO Jan 12 21:28:48 haha, because it doesn't cost ~$125/hr Jan 12 21:28:56 heh Jan 12 21:28:58 ah, thanks. plug wasnt in there all the way.. Jan 12 21:29:14 that's what she said....... Jan 12 21:29:46 what do u fly M3? Jan 12 21:29:53 152's? Jan 12 21:30:01 172's normally Jan 12 21:30:10 of course.. Jan 12 21:30:23 my buddies Seneca II is a blast though :) Jan 12 21:30:31 i got some stick time myself tho no PPL Jan 12 21:30:57 aerobatic glider was fun too.. Jan 12 21:31:01 in a c 152? Jan 12 21:31:08 ah, never done that... Jan 12 21:31:17 152,172, Cub, Glider Jan 12 21:31:28 glider was a pisser! Jan 12 21:31:32 cub eh? another never done Jan 12 21:31:44 they guy was strapping me into a parachute. he said Jan 12 21:32:03 you paid for one ride but u might get 2.. Jan 12 21:32:19 heh, nice, skydiving is also a blast :) Jan 12 21:32:32 then he said Jan 12 21:32:45 you might be wondering why i am strapping you so tight to the seat Jan 12 21:33:01 but when we're inverted you'll be wondering why i left em so loose.. Jan 12 21:33:59 then 5 minutes later i'm looking at the little pebbles that where stuck to my shoes now on the top on the canopy while i stare at the ground.. Jan 12 21:34:40 hah, sounds like a good time, didn't get a second taste of lunch, did ya? Jan 12 21:34:53 no it was too cool for that.. Jan 12 21:35:48 then there was the other time I went for a checkride with my buddy.. Jan 12 21:36:11 i didnt realize he was going to practice stall recovery that day with the instructor.. Jan 12 21:36:18 i puked.. Jan 12 21:36:49 puked so hard my sneakers came out into the bag.. Jan 12 21:37:06 where do u fly? Jan 12 21:37:20 heh, did he forget the rudder? (fall to the left) Jan 12 21:37:34 east coast Jan 12 21:37:58 i dunno. we're yaw'n all over and stalling... vomet comet.. Jan 12 21:38:29 I love stalls Jan 12 21:38:44 if you're at the stick it one thing.. Jan 12 21:38:54 if you're in the back, totally different story.. Jan 12 21:39:16 yeah? never been in that situation Jan 12 21:39:44 yeah i was just along for the ride in the back.. Jan 12 21:39:52 puketron... Jan 12 21:40:01 the puke-o-matic.. Jan 12 21:40:32 i made linda blaire in excorcist look like a childrens story.. Jan 12 21:40:46 heh Jan 12 21:40:48 it was downright evil.. Jan 12 21:44:02 u fly in NY M3? Jan 12 21:44:11 kpou ? Jan 12 21:44:21 I have, yes Jan 12 21:44:34 thats where i am.. Jan 12 21:44:35 not kpou Jan 12 21:45:22 i fly rc too Jan 12 21:45:59 oh? never bought anything bigger then a ~$120 toy Jan 12 21:46:12 i like building them so.. Jan 12 21:47:07 gotta get out. nice talking to you M3; Jan 12 21:47:25 same, take it easy Jan 12 21:53:10 #webos-internals Jan 12 22:05:24 Hey Adora; you wanted to talk yesterday? Jan 12 22:10:15 jeffwheeler: palm app search http://bas.buildasearch.com/palm Jan 12 22:10:47 Cool :) Jan 12 22:10:56 LoneStar99: although my app isn't listed Jan 12 22:11:44 http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/random-funny-morning-sf-18.jpg Jan 12 22:11:46 hillarious Jan 12 22:11:59 damn yet again wrong window Jan 12 22:12:12 joekinley: XD Jan 12 22:12:24 wow nuts Jan 12 22:14:22 jeffwheller: what was the link to your app again? Jan 12 22:14:35 * jeffwheeler looks for it Jan 12 22:14:46 doing some tests on the app search Jan 12 22:15:14 For some reason it isn't updating past 1.0.0, but it's here: http://developer.palm.com/webChannel/index.php?packageid=com.jeffwheeler.cumtd Jan 12 22:15:27 The new version was approved yesterday, but it's not in the app store or there yet. Jan 12 22:16:15 Is anyone here alpha testing the Preware version which accesses the app catalog and can sort by price? Jan 12 22:17:03 ok, that is the reason it is not in the search it, is not even in the rss feed Jan 12 22:39:19 hey haeffb: whatcha think? Jan 12 23:15:07 is there a way I can search the app catalog from my pc? Jan 12 23:29:41 bas.buildasearch.com/palm Jan 12 23:31:35 torchie yes Jan 12 23:32:13 torchie -- http://projectappetite.com Jan 12 23:34:54 i wish i could just grab MY APP'S little box from appetite Jan 12 23:34:57 and include it on my site Jan 12 23:35:03 without sifting through source lol :) Jan 12 23:40:56 Rick_work: Can you change opacity of an app so that Palm's background shows thru? Jan 12 23:41:09 haeffb no idea, never tried, Jan 12 23:41:14 theoretically possible. Jan 12 23:46:22 haeffb: yes you can Jan 12 23:46:40 example? Jan 12 23:46:48 haeffb: you mean change opacity of image dynamically? Jan 12 23:47:32 no, just change opacity of my app background so that what's underneath shows through (i.e. palm wallpaper) Jan 12 23:47:51 haeffb: you mean the app scene background Jan 12 23:48:17 i tried it and it affected even the app menu Jan 12 23:48:44 awesome. Jan 12 23:49:14 how did you do it? Jan 12 23:50:00 haeffb: let me try again, and see if it did what you need, cuss, there was something I did not like brb in 5 minutes Jan 12 23:50:18 ok. going to reboot for windows updates. bbiab. Jan 12 23:56:24 hi Jan 13 00:03:45 hi Jan 13 00:04:04 hello world Jan 13 00:05:18 haeffb: what I did does not make the scene transparent, but everything in it. Jan 13 00:05:36 ah. ok. Jan 13 00:05:50 g'day chuqui Jan 13 00:05:54 #mojo-scene-bg-scene-scroller { opacity:0.4; Jan 13 00:05:56 hey Jan 13 00:06:06 howdy chuqui Jan 13 00:08:12 did not really do what I wanted... Jan 13 00:11:02 I don't think the entire thing can be transparent Jan 13 00:13:22 I was guessing not, but hey, you never know until you ask #webos Jan 13 00:14:53 * haeffb installing SDK 1.3.5 Jan 13 00:15:18 want to stop rotating my laptop to get landscape mode Jan 13 00:16:13 How do you copy the rom off the phone? Jan 13 00:24:36 Sk1tt1sh: you can DL webos doctor, which contains the entire OS. Jan 13 00:24:54 I know buy I wanna copy the phone completely cuz ima update it Jan 13 00:25:13 LIke all my service programming and data. Like backwards webos doctor it Jan 13 00:28:16 haeffb i've been perusing the precentral and such forums... but like basically I want to copy the phone as it is programming wise and such for I won't have to reprogram it if the update loses that stuff Jan 13 00:28:52 it's happened before and im leery about palm updates...but the fin battery dies too fast an i need to update lol! Jan 13 00:33:00 i believe he wants to backup the phone in its current state so that if the update goes wrong he can restore to how it was before the update Jan 13 00:33:12 not sure how easily that can be done Jan 13 00:33:29 or how you would restore if you were able to back it up Jan 13 00:33:44 it's linux, not that hard if you use linux command prompt Jan 13 00:34:11 backing up is easy, use rsync. Jan 13 00:34:24 restoring is harder, cause you need to boot into an initramfs so you can flash / Jan 13 00:34:33 could i use something like could i use rsync Jan 13 00:34:48 luckily, there is an initramfs ready and waiting in the doctor image Jan 13 00:34:57 which boots into novacomd Jan 13 00:35:10 i thought that's what palms backup was for though Jan 13 00:35:16 everything is backed up online??? Jan 13 00:35:25 it is Jan 13 00:35:32 but sometimes it doesnt work Jan 13 00:35:51 or works too wel Jan 13 00:35:53 l Jan 13 00:36:01 ssh into phone? Jan 13 00:36:09 only other way since no removable media Jan 13 00:36:23 ssh or novaterm or netcat Jan 13 00:36:38 it's just a linux box with a touchscreen Jan 13 00:37:53 rwhitby: you've just ruined my day.... "it's just a linux box with a touchscreen" Jan 13 00:38:18 i can ssh in... but all teh service programming information is what I need. it's a rom from some dude and I cant pay 200 for the actual rom... so if i can copy some key components of the radio stuff then that's all i need but i don't know this thing that well Jan 13 00:38:51 Sk1tt1sh: ah, you're talking about the modem. can't help you there, not a legit conversation. Jan 13 00:39:18 so, what should I buy with my $100 amazon cert? Jan 13 00:39:29 linux boxes for dummies? Jan 13 00:39:38 i bought xmas gifts :P Jan 13 00:39:39 Sk1tt1sh: someone is selling WebOS ROMS for $200 ? Jan 13 00:39:40 fzametti's book? Jan 13 00:39:50 no. Jan 13 00:42:16 who should i direct documentation bugs to? Jan 13 00:43:14 dawm__: christmas is 11 months away. I don't plan that far in advance... :) Jan 13 00:47:05 austenmc: post in bugs forum? Jan 13 00:48:13 AH HA!! Jan 13 00:48:17 oops, wrong window Jan 13 00:48:46 how the heck do you resize in css like you do with img ? Jan 13 00:51:25 Bmyers_away: put a width & height on div? Jan 13 00:51:59 that gives me a smaller window with a slice of the original but doesnt resize it Jan 13 00:52:02 I'm just guessing, because I do not CSS Jan 13 00:52:20 trying to make a 48x48 look 32x32 Jan 13 00:57:21 Bmyers: Is it an img within a div? Jan 13 00:58:56 http://www.w3schools.com/css/tryit.asp?filename=trycss_dim_height_percent Jan 13 01:00:09 hi all! Jan 13 01:00:55 Hey Jen Jan 13 01:01:13 hi doc! Jan 13 01:02:37 Ok, have fzametti's book in the cart. Still have $70. What else? Jan 13 01:02:42 hi jenp Jan 13 01:02:56 hey haeffb....whatcha buying? Jan 13 01:03:25 haeffb: I could use a 1 gig stick of DDR2 ram Jan 13 01:03:26 spending my $100 amazon certificate Jan 13 01:03:38 oh fun. Jan 13 01:04:05 And why didn't I get a gift certificate? Jan 13 01:04:33 idk doc...i got mine last month Jan 13 01:04:33 Bmyers: near as I can tell, settng the width and height of the should set the dimension of the image. Jan 13 01:04:48 Bah. I bet it went to RadioTime... Jan 13 01:05:02 oh that would suck! Jan 13 01:05:06 Yeah Jan 13 01:05:21 That's the company information listed Jan 13 01:05:29 address too? Jan 13 01:05:32 Yeah Jan 13 01:05:39 then yeah bet it did Jan 13 01:05:46 Bah Jan 13 01:08:09 $550 for early termination of Nexus Mobile, how bout them apples, 1-2 years they will be up 2 $1000 Jan 13 01:24:57 i have a stupid question ... Jan 13 01:25:53 how do I login to root user via ssh? like i'm in my username but I want to be root to issue commands without having to type sudo all the time Jan 13 01:26:31 ohhh nm Jan 13 01:26:32 hahahaha Jan 13 01:27:38 reality9110: thanks docs. thats a little different flavor than what i've tried so far. i'll see if that works.. Jan 13 01:27:48 thanks Doc.. Jan 13 01:28:00 Hi Jenp! Jan 13 01:28:00 Sk1tt1sh: sometimes you can not login in as root in ssh Jan 13 01:28:07 hey Bmyers! Jan 13 01:28:21 Bmyers: I didn't say anything... Jan 13 01:28:26 I asked a question... Jan 13 01:28:41 Sk1tt1sh: if you are logeed in as user the type "su" and your root password Jan 13 01:28:43 i am just catching up from 15 minutes ago about the img resize Jan 13 01:29:04 Yeah, I didn't provide a solution... Jan 13 01:29:13 I only asked a question Jan 13 01:29:35 the w3schools link? Jan 13 01:29:40 Not me Jan 13 01:29:49 Bmyers: you're welcome. :) Jan 13 01:29:55 SORRY Jan 13 01:30:04 i am getting caught up here... Jan 13 01:30:07 :) Jan 13 01:30:18 had to read with my son about planets.. Jan 13 01:31:24 ah the innocence of youth. we read about Uranus and only i giggled.. Jan 13 01:31:34 lol Jan 13 01:31:54 THANKS HAEFFB: Jan 13 01:34:12 did it works? Jan 13 01:41:31 didnt try it yet. had to read with daughter . everything has to be equal with them.. Jan 13 01:42:14 webOS handles my list of 850 widgets surprisingly well . . . Jan 13 01:42:19 I expected it to fall over pretty fast. Jan 13 01:43:31 I do need a /much/ better search algorithm, though . . . Jan 13 01:44:06 Right now, I just do a substring match on the lowercase version of the list items and the query. Jan 13 01:44:21 I think I need to first look for exact matches, then look for matches that match at the beginning of the list item. Jan 13 01:44:28 And only /then/ should I list the other matches. Jan 13 01:51:49 who on here had there app published to the app catalog yesterday? Jan 13 01:55:19 I don't think anything came out yesterday Jan 13 02:00:42 edektor: i did Jan 13 02:00:52 when did you submit it to palm? Jan 13 02:01:02 sunday night Jan 13 02:01:29 so on Jan 10th Jan 13 02:01:37 yeah Jan 13 02:01:49 oddly though, on the palm site it says it was submitted on the 12th Jan 13 02:02:04 even though it hit the app store last night 7pm EST Jan 13 02:02:08 cause mine was submitted on the 8th and has not been accepted yet Jan 13 02:02:25 i think it depends on a few things. like the complexity of the app Jan 13 02:02:39 well mine was pretty complex Jan 13 02:02:41 i also provided the unit tests i used to test the app to make it easier for them Jan 13 02:02:50 well then that's probably why, mine was pretty basic Jan 13 02:02:57 "Debt Collector" Jan 13 02:03:13 ahh Jan 13 02:03:16 k thanks Jan 13 02:03:47 i've heard that sometimes it's a few days and other times it's two weeks. what is the current status? Jan 13 02:03:49 edektor: What's your app? Jan 13 02:04:07 Groovee Jan 13 02:04:21 what's it do? Jan 13 02:04:30 plays music Jan 13 02:04:35 cool Jan 13 02:05:00 What type of music? Like is it from a webservice? Jan 13 02:05:15 is there anyways to start a song and choose the location in the song to start playing? cause someone needs to write a music player that book marks Jan 13 02:05:23 reality9110: yes, webservice Jan 13 02:05:29 edektor: Which one? Jan 13 02:05:47 i'll let ya know when it gets accepted Jan 13 02:06:08 Uhhh... Jan 13 02:06:14 It's not like I'm going to copy it. Jan 13 02:06:23 I know.. Jan 13 02:06:28 edektor: if it's last.fm, I'm going to love you forever Jan 13 02:06:29 ;) Jan 13 02:06:38 jeffwheeler: it's not Jan 13 02:06:40 :( Jan 13 02:06:45 edektor: is it paid (if so how much) or free? Jan 13 02:06:53 If it's last.fm, he'd have to pay a literal ton of money in licensing fees Jan 13 02:06:56 Come on; he clearly doesn't want to share much. Let's be nice. Jan 13 02:07:01 but there was a guy in precentral that posted a last.fm app yesterday Jan 13 02:07:06 reality9110: Last.FM has an open API Jan 13 02:07:50 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/223977-palmfm-last-fm-radio-progress.html Jan 13 02:08:00 edektor: awesome, thanks :) Jan 13 02:08:00 jeffwheeler: For commercial applications, they require a commercial license. Jan 13 02:08:07 reality9110: palm does not allow streaming to mobile devices Jan 13 02:08:16 i mean last.fm Jan 13 02:08:24 not palm Jan 13 02:08:37 edektor: well, except in their own apps, I suppose Jan 13 02:08:40 edektor: They will if you pay licensing fees... Jan 13 02:08:43 yes Jan 13 02:08:55 yeah Jan 13 02:08:57 I suppose Jan 13 02:09:12 I know so. One of our other apps use them. WunderRadio on the Iphone. Jan 13 02:09:29 meppum: 1.99 Jan 13 02:09:44 nice Jan 13 02:10:02 Hmm, when scrolling through a long list, it randomly loops back to the beginning after passing about 75 items. Jan 13 02:10:05 does anyone else keep track of time invested when they write their apps? Jan 13 02:10:23 meppum: I dont Jan 13 02:11:24 I am also working on a tv listings/schedule app as well.. Jan 13 02:11:27 anyone have any estimations? Jan 13 02:12:05 where you can follow shows and it will tell you when they are playin Jan 13 02:12:08 playing* Jan 13 02:12:19 Oh, increasing lookahead fixed the above problem. Jan 13 02:15:09 edektor: Did you beta test your app extensively? Jan 13 02:15:51 nah Jan 13 02:16:10 but I think I used it enough myself to cover enough bases Jan 13 02:16:19 lol Jan 13 02:16:22 You'd think that...but, it never works that way Jan 13 02:17:46 well see Jan 13 02:18:08 I speak from experience with audio apps. Jan 13 02:18:56 Did you say if your app was free or paid? Jan 13 02:18:56 we'll see Jan 13 02:19:02 paid Jan 13 02:19:19 Price point? Jan 13 02:19:24 1.99 Jan 13 02:19:54 You might be able to snag a couple thousands downloads. Jan 13 02:20:50 hopefully Jan 13 02:23:11 Ad supported is really the way to go Jan 13 02:24:00 reality9110: you have add supported apps? Jan 13 02:24:10 meppum: Yeah Jan 13 02:24:46 not with such a small user base.. Jan 13 02:24:54 maybe on the iphone thats the way to go Jan 13 02:25:01 edektor: Incorrect. Jan 13 02:25:10 care to share how many clicks per 1000 you are getting on your ad apps? Jan 13 02:25:19 Yeah Tasty Toons passed review! Jan 13 02:26:00 congrats Jenp:! Jan 13 02:26:05 meppum: We're mainly CPM. Jan 13 02:26:17 yay JenP Jan 13 02:26:26 thanks Bmyers & haeffb! Jan 13 02:27:08 so what's your ratio Jan 13 02:27:41 JenP: did it just barley get accepted? Jan 13 02:27:43 i only ask because i wonder if ads would be good for a long running app like a music streamer, but not so good for a short used app like a stopwatch or another utility Jan 13 02:27:58 edektor: it was rejected the first time Jan 13 02:28:09 too much "adult content" Jan 13 02:28:25 so it was just barley accepted tonight? Jan 13 02:28:29 Bmyers any news on yours? Jan 13 02:28:43 still in review.... Jan 13 02:28:53 edektor i got the email 3 mins ago...is that what you mean? Jan 13 02:28:59 yes Jan 13 02:29:01 Bmyers: really? Jan 13 02:29:11 im waiting on mine as well Jan 13 02:29:13 really.. Jan 13 02:29:19 do you have super secret messages hidden in yours? Jan 13 02:29:26 meppum: They're good for long running music apps. Jan 13 02:29:26 since when are they sending out emails Jan 13 02:29:31 only if u play it backwards.. Jan 13 02:29:42 edektor: this was the first time i got one Jan 13 02:29:54 Bmyers: (6) Jan 13 02:30:04 cause I didnt get any with my other app when it was accepted Jan 13 02:30:31 edektor: i have one deferred to next update item...pixi resolution Jan 13 02:32:27 jenP: so how long was the time period between you re-submitting your app and it being accepted? Jan 13 02:32:44 3-4 days Jan 13 02:33:01 including weekends? Jan 13 02:33:12 yes Jan 13 02:33:19 wait...no Jan 13 02:33:27 it was rejected thursday night Jan 13 02:33:28 JenP: did you get an app negated? Jan 13 02:34:03 LoneStar99 Tasty Toons was rejected for content...so we had to remove a few pics and cover nips Jan 13 02:34:27 hah Jan 13 02:34:47 boo, will probably get an update rejected, did not properly fix a section for the pixi Jan 13 02:34:47 smiles...yep...no rear ends either Jan 13 02:35:14 LoneStar99 i got a deffered till next update for mine not fitting pixi Jan 13 02:35:57 got the fix now, but will wait for the rejection first Jan 13 02:36:12 damn, was gonna build a porn app... Jan 13 02:36:42 guess I am gonna have to stick to my holy-roller app Jan 13 02:39:53 JenP: what is "deferred till next update" mean? Jan 13 02:40:04 i don't have to fix it till my next update Jan 13 02:40:12 LoneStar99: holy-roller porn is all the rage nowadays Jan 13 02:40:20 I think we should get some really smart enigneers to build and add on or something for lazarus so you can create compiled applications for web os Jan 13 02:40:50 haeffb: damn that is awesome, bible-belt porn Jan 13 02:40:58 hackNperl: the what the webOS internals PDK is for Jan 13 02:41:26 hackNperl: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS_Internals_PDK Jan 13 02:42:11 what's holy-roller porn? Jan 13 02:42:46 built a search that crawls and indexes all the apps in the catalog, and noticed it is flooded with BHLabs http://bas.buildasearch.com/palm Jan 13 02:43:42 http://universesandbox.com/ Jan 13 02:52:27 dawm___: uni sandbox looks awesome Jan 13 02:53:53 anybody seen the DatPiff Mobile app in the Beta store? Jan 13 02:57:55 how many people formed an LLC to write there apps under? Jan 13 02:59:08 I see datpiff Jan 13 02:59:25 edektor, i was thinking about it Jan 13 02:59:47 what's the command to run an app as inspectable? Jan 13 02:59:47 dawm__: I think im going to **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jan 13 02:59:57 2010